Basement: Marc D'Antonio | UFO Propulsion, The Fifth Dimension, and 40 Billion Habitable Worlds

Marc D'Antonio is an astronomer specializing in exoplanets, MUFON's chief photo and video analyst, and the CEO of FX Models — a visual effects company whose clients include Hollywood studios and defense contractors. He co-developed an advanced UFO detection system alongside Douglas Trumbull, the visual effects legend behind 2001: A Space Odyssey, Close Encounters of the Third Kind, and Blade Runner. Marc operates two remote observatories in Arizona, where he livestreams the night sky to audiences around the world and conducts real exoplanet transit research. He is a recurring on-screen analyst for History Channel's The Proof Is Out There and has appeared across numerous television productions covering anomalous phenomena. He has done project work for the U. S. Navy and the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and has spent decades applying genuine scientific rigor to one of the least scientifically respected fields in existence. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLqomIh6JDo MARC D'ANTONIO LINKS www.skytourlive.org tiktok - skytourlivestream X - @skytourD Facebook - Marc Dantonio Kick - marcstls Instagram - skytourlivestream twitch - stlsw Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  Into the wild, the Calthea panther encounters a shimmering crocodile, a lonely lovebird, a breathless zebra, and a restless tiger.

• 0:15AJ Gentile?

  Today, we've got Mark Dantonio. He's an astronomer, MUFON's chief photo and video analyst, and the CEO of a visual effects company that builds stuff for Hollywood and defense contractors. He also co-developed a UFO detection camera system with Douglas Trumbull. He's the guy who did the visual effects for 2001, Blade Runner, Star Trek, Close Encounters. I mean, he's a legend.

• 0:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, so he gets paid to analyze UFO footage and make UFO footage? It's like hiring a counterfeit to authenticate money. I love it!

• 0:45AJ Gentile?

  At nine years old, Mark had a missing-time experience on a school field trip. He came home terrified of the night sky. So what did he do? He asked his parents for a telescope. He turned that fear into a career.

• 0:57Speaker 02

  So the aliens scared him, and his response was, "I'm gonna find you?" It's not a career, that's revenge! This guy's like, eh, nerdy Charles Bronson.

• 1:08AJ Gentile?

  Today, we're covering exoplanets, how life spreads across the universe, and what Mark heard on a Navy submarine that the government won't talk about.

• 1:16Speaker 02

  Oh, he spent some time with semen.

• 1:18AJ Gentile?

  Stop that.

• 1:19Speaker 02

  What?

• 1:20AJ Gentile?

  And Mark has a theory that might explain how UFOs actually move, without engines. And I'm telling you, it's a good theory and backed by real science. There's also a three-night encounter at his house involving knocking, a flash of light, and something in his sinus that he can't explain, and neither could his doctor.

• 1:38Speaker 02

  Eh, sounds like his doctor skipped the alien biology classes in med school, eh?

• 1:43AJ Gentile?

  I had a great time hanging out with Mark. He's super smart and also very funny, and I'll prove it. Let's go down to the basement.

• 1:57AJ Gentile?

  Mark, welcome to the basement.

• 1:59Speaker 03

  Wow, AJ. So good to be here. Thank you.

• 2:01AJ Gentile?

  I'm so excited to have you here.

• 2:02Speaker 03

  It's so much fun. It was a great time. Long time coming, right?

• 2:05AJ Gentile?

  It was.

• 2:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but it's really cool. Good to be here. Thanks, man.

• 2:08AJ Gentile?

  So you have a super long resume and a very wide breadth of experience. But I want to start with age nine, got your lunch, you get on the school bus.

• 2:19Speaker 03

  Oh, okay. We're going there now.

• 2:21AJ Gentile?

  Let's do it.

• 2:21Speaker 03

  Okay. So hey, so check this out. Age nine, you're in third grade. Hey, you're excited. You're going on a field trip to a pond. Yeah. Okay, how much fun, right? I got my mother gave me a bag lunch with a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and some of those fluorescent orange crackers with peanut butter in them, right?

• 2:38AJ Gentile?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. I get on the lunch, I get on a bus with my bag lunch, holding it in my hand, okay? And I sit down at the sea, you know, making the squeaky sounds in your shorts because I was wearing shorts. It's near the end of the year, okay? And we get to the, we get to the pond. We're all getting off the bus. Next thing you know, I'm getting back on the bus. Wait, what's going on? I still have my bag lunch. I'm holding it the same way, okay? And the kids are bouncing around like, what's going on? So I say, when are we going to the pond? And they turn and look and they're like, ah, you idiot. You know how kids are. Slap, push, punch, you know? We've been there all day. Where were you?

• 3:16AJ Gentile?

  Where were you?

• 3:16Speaker 03

  Uh, I don't know. I don't remember the day. Um, it was the first, um, true missing time I've ever experienced. I had never experienced anything like that. I didn't know what it was. So I just sort of stayed quiet in the bus, got back to the school, walked home. I was what they call a walker.

• 3:38AJ Gentile?

  Well, hang on. Do the kids know you were gone? Were you just?

• 3:40Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. A couple of them said, where were you all day?

• 3:42AJ Gentile?

  So you, so they were aware that you were not there?

• 3:45Speaker 03

  They were aware I was not there.

• 3:46AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 3:47Speaker 03

  And, uh, I don't know. To this day, I don't know where I was.

• 3:52AJ Gentile?

  You have no memory of what?

• 3:53Speaker 03

  No memory.

• 3:54AJ Gentile?

  You ever thought about doing regression or something to figure that out?

• 3:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, I have, and I'm a little concerned about it. First of all, let me just finish the other part. I got home with that lunch. I put it on the counter. My mother says, why didn't you eat your lunch? We love our moms, right? And so I said, I don't know. She goes, okay, well, go outside and play. I'll call you for dinner. So I went outside and played with my friend from next door.

• 4:16Speaker 03

  I distinctly remember a weird feeling coming over me out there and then next thing you know, I'm on the ground in convulsions and seizures and I'm banging my head in the ground, bang, bang, bang, but it wasn't me. Here's the weird part. I'm doing this, I'm looking at the ground, seeing little red ants running around going, oh, check out the ants. Look at the ants, but I'm still hitting my head really, really hard, hitting ants and thinking, wow, I'm hitting the ants, hey, I'm squashing the ants. And it wasn't me. Well, they called the ambulance, of course. They put me in the ambulance. It still wasn't me.

• 4:49AJ Gentile?

  Wasn't you meaning you weren't in control of, you're kind of just watching it happen?

• 4:55Speaker 03

  Exactly. I was a passive observer, watching this happen. It wasn't really me. So guess what? I'm watching this, I'm in the ambulance and I say to the ambulance drivers, I say, hey, can you run the siren? Right?

• 5:09AJ Gentile?

  So you're not frightened?

• 5:10Speaker 03

  No, I was like, this is cool. And they put on the siren. I'm thinking, wow, cool, they're putting on the siren for me. I wasn't worried at all. I should have been worried.

• 5:20AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 5:21Speaker 03

  I wasn't. AJ, I didn't have a worry in the world. I had no idea why I wasn't worried. I get to the hospital. The doctor sees my head has a bump on it, of course, because I was banging my head in the ground, right? Oh, it's okay. He had a concussion. Okay, so take him home. We'll have the nurse pluck out the dirt that's embedded in his forehead. Okay, that was the worst part. That hurt like you can't believe. They're plucking dirt out of an abrasion. Okay, if you get an abrasion, imagine plucking dirt out of it. The pain is, ah, that's just painful. Makes people have jelly legs, right? So anyway, that was the worst part. I just wanted to go home. So

• 6:01AJ Gentile?

  Well, hang on. What did mom say? Where were you? Teacher, chaperone?

• 6:04Speaker 03

  Well, no, she never knew that I missed all that time.

• 6:08AJ Gentile?

  You didn't tell her?

• 6:08Speaker 03

  I never told her.

• 6:09AJ Gentile?

  Of course. We were not gonna tell her.

• 6:10Speaker 03

  No, I'm not gonna get into it. What, you're gonna take me to a psychiatrist now? No way. No, I'm not going to the doctors again. The hospital was scary to me. So I didn't want to do it, man. So I ended up going home and the worst part was, besides the picking out that stuff out of my forehead, I know that's nasty sounding, was that they wouldn't let me sleep for the night. Because the doctors told them, keep him awake.

• 6:32AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 6:32Speaker 03

  And my mother, of course, going overboard, you can't sleep tonight. You're gonna have to stay awake.

• 6:39Speaker 03

  And that was the worst part because I was really tired. And I mean, and, and anyone that has seizures and convulsions knows that afterwards, you're fatigued. Your body has just gone through this tumultuous muscle tensing and relaxation, tensing. It's like doing a workout in like 25 seconds, 30 minutes, whatever it takes. And so I was just totally fatigued. I couldn't even sit up on the table at the hospital. I kept wanting to fall over. Uh, and so that's probably why the doctors said, don't let him fall asleep. Keep him awake. And I'm like, okay, Marky, okay. Uh, and Marky, that's what they called me.

• 7:13AJ Gentile?

  So is this missing time because of seizures? Or is there some, did something else happen? Spec, just speculate.

• 7:20Speaker 03

  My speculation is something happened.

• 7:22AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 7:22Speaker 03

  Um, I came home perfectly fine. If I was having a seizure, I would expect I would be dirty, filthy, have problem, have abrasions from, you know, having done it. I had nothing. Nothing, AJ, nothing in my body indicated anything until I had that seizure, uh, before dinner, pounding my head in the sand. Okay, with that.

• 7:44AJ Gentile?

  There are people listening who have the same experience. What would you, would you tell them to seek medical help? Keep it quiet? What do they do?

• 7:52Speaker 03

  Do I look like a good example? Okay, I didn't, I've never sought medical help. I've never tried to do a regression. You know, I'm sure I'll get offers to do regression, but you know what? I'm kinda scared of that. Okay, I'm, I'm the.

• 8:03AJ Gentile?

  That's a fair answer.

• 8:03Speaker 03

  I'm not, I'm not gonna lie. I'm not like some big brave guy that's gonna say, oh, of course I'll do it. You know, I'm, I'm scared of it.

• 8:10AJ Gentile?

  When you were nine, did you think this could be an alien abduction? Or did you not have that frame of reference?

• 8:15Speaker 03

  Uh, it wasn't there quite yet, but here's what happened after that. Unlike any other time after that, when I got home from the hospital, when I went out to play the next day, uh, it was fine. When night came. I was completely afraid to go out and let the stars see me.

• 8:35AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 8:35Speaker 03

  The stars, wait a minute. The night is usually frightening to people. It wasn't the night, I didn't care about that. But the stars were scary to me. Something I felt was looking at me. I mean, that's how I was putting it together as a nine year old. It was scary. So I, I literally, and, and I think you may know enough about me to know that sometimes I attack things head on. And even as a nine year old, I kinda did that. It doesn't mean I'm brave and oh, look at him go. No, no, it just means I was scared. And sometimes you attack things when you're scared. When you're scared, you punch back, right? I'm scared, bang, you hit without thinking. So I did in an intellectual way. I actually, I told my parents, I want a telescope.

• 9:20Speaker 03

  I want a telescope, mom and dad.

• 9:22AJ Gentile?

  You're afraid of the stars, yet you want to see more of them.

• 9:24Speaker 03

  I want to see more of them. And I said, I've got to know what's going on. And I was scared to death. And the first time I went out there looking at them, I was literally like this. And I felt, this is so stupid. It's just a star. You know? I didn't even know what stars were at that point. At the point at nine years old, I thought, well, were they alive? Were they, were they something? What are they? They're points in the sky? Yeah, we know they're, they're balls of hot gas. Oh, okay. That's what I knew of stars back then.

• 9:48AJ Gentile?

  But something's pulling you to look.

• 9:49Speaker 03

  But something was making me.

• 9:51AJ Gentile?

  Making you look.

• 9:52Speaker 03

  Yeah. I looked at the moon first. I'm comfortable with that. That's the moon. All right, so I'll check out the moon. Wow, look at the craters, mom and dad, look. Show them the craters. Wow, that's nice, Mark. Mama, do your homework. Yeah, okay, mom. Right? So then I looked at star clusters and I saw these beautiful clusters of stars. I wonder if there's anyone looking back at me right now from there. What an odd thought.

• 10:18AJ Gentile?

  Is it? I don't know if it is, unless I'm odd also.

• 10:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, but duh.

• 10:23AJ Gentile?

  That's why we get along.

• 10:25Speaker 03

  I think we get along.

• 10:26AJ Gentile?

  But yeah.

• 10:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, I think that, that.

• 10:28AJ Gentile?

  You're wondering who, who's there?

• 10:29Speaker 03

  Who's looking back? Yeah, and so that persisted. And so, starting around age nine, just as I reached age 10, I had to have surgery back then. A heart surgery, it was very big surgery. And had a Yale and Haven Hospital. And I started.

• 10:47Speaker 03

  You know, embedding myself in looking at the telescope because that's what I could do. I couldn't do any kind of athletic stuff. They wouldn't let me. Doctors were way over cautious and conservative back then. They wouldn't let you do anything.

• 10:58AJ Gentile?

  Is it because of a heart condition?

• 10:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. You know, they had to fix a valve problem, right? Like in your car.

• 11:03AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 11:04Speaker 03

  So, you know, fix the valve. So, they fixed the valve. They, and now they, I basically have to recuperate. So, I didn't even, they, they wouldn't even let me climb stairs. I had to walk, and I had to go to a special school that was all one floor. Okay? It was weird. So, anyway, they're over cautious. But I sunk into the telescope and I started looking at stuff. And the more I looked at stuff, again, still fearful.

• 11:28AJ Gentile?

  Mm-hmm.

• 11:29Speaker 03

  Okay, I began to think, I gotta figure out what's going on out there. You know, I'd say, I'd scratch my head, this is something crazy out there. What is this? I'm gonna figure this out. I'd grit my teeth and I'd force myself to look at something that's scary in the sky. And I'd say, I'm gonna figure this out. Now, was it just a mental thing? Maybe. But guess what, guess what it did? It turned me into an astronomer. Because at age nine, I felt, I said to myself, I'm gonna, I'm gonna be an astronomer.

• 11:57AJ Gentile?

  Well, doesn't that lead us to you writing to JPL as a nine-year-old?

• 12:01Speaker 03

  Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. Um, I actually-

• 12:05AJ Gentile?

  I mean, we have to get, I mean, this is very, as you have, you're, I don't know if you know how weird you are. In a great way. In a great way.

• 12:12Speaker 03

  I'm out of here. No, no, you're right. I mean, I, I, I definitely, um, feel that I am a little weird sometimes. Uh, but I try-

• 12:22AJ Gentile?

  I just mean this-

• 12:23Speaker 03

  I try to in a good way, man. You know, and, and you, you understand.

• 12:26AJ Gentile?

  Yes, most of us don't have this third or fourth grade experience where we're writing to JPL. So, can you, what did you, what did you send to them, to NASA?

• 12:33Speaker 03

  While recovering from the surgery.

• 12:35AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 12:35Speaker 03

  I was bored. I would look at my telescope, but during the day, what do I do? I'd read books. I'd, I'd read books. And I realized, we need a space station.

• 12:48Speaker 03

  We need a space station. I didn't know that NASA had space stations on the docket and thoughts. I didn't. So I created them. I actually built, I created a space station plan. Okay. It was like eight pages of torn out notebook paper. Okay.

• 13:05AJ Gentile?

  What, blueprints and?

• 13:06Speaker 03

  Not even. Just notebook paper. I drew, you know, by hand and I drew space stations. I made two dumbbells in an X configuration that were rotating at just the right speed so that you get gravity, earth gravity in these dumbbells.

• 13:19AJ Gentile?

  You're a nine-year-old figuring out how to do one G with centrifugal force?

• 13:22Speaker 03

  Absolutely. And, and, you know, how did that happen? I don't know. Okay. But I did, you know, again-

• 13:28AJ Gentile?

  It happened during that pond experience.

• 13:30Speaker 03

  I was, wow, oh.

• 13:32AJ Gentile?

  They, they gave you, they, they, they gave you the seed.

• 13:35Speaker 03

  Oh, okay. That's scary now. You're making me think.

• 13:38AJ Gentile?

  Well, all right. We'll keep it happy. So-

• 13:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's all good. All right. So I, I built this space station plan and I put in rotation to have earth gravity. I didn't call it one G. I didn't know what that meant. Okay. I said, this will make, if it's rotating, you know, we'll get earth gravity. Okay. And because there were, there were, there were things out there in the literature talking about space stations rotating and stuff like that. So I, I put it together. I made twin dumbbells in an X configuration. The access hatches were, you know, as you get closer, you get zero G at the center, right? Well, I didn't know that. Okay. I just think you climb a ladder to go to the next one. I'd never put that part together, but it was one, it was, it was rotating with earth gravity at the ends. I had pigs in there. I had cows.

• 14:23Speaker 03

  Okay. You know, pigs for meat, cows for milk. I mean, I did all that stupid stuff. It just obviously is impractical. But I also talked about cleaning the air. How do you clean the air? You got to clean the air inside your space station to get rid of carbon dioxide. I knew that because I read books about what we exhale. So I also figured there has to be a way to get rid of carbon dioxide out of the air. So this box here is the thing to remove carbon dioxide. All right, and replace it with oxygen. Now, we don't do that part, but we do scrub CO2. Right? So I didn't know what that was, but I said it's needed for a space station. Because we're gonna otherwise get the oxygen. Of course. The animals are gonna need it too. Right.

• 15:08Speaker 03

  You know, so anyway, um, I did this whole stuff. I wrote it all up and I draw these pictures, arrows everywhere and pencil, on notebook paper with the blue lines. I love it. I boxed it up and I put it in a folder, actually, and I sent it down to NASA. And the NASA person that read it must have had a field day. Okay? He was a NASA scientist. He read it and for whatever reason, it struck him. He actually wrote back to me, uh, not. Who was he? What was his name? I'll tell you. I'll tell you in just a minute, because that's part of the. I don't want to step on the punchline. No, no, no, no, you're fine. You're fine. But so this NASA guy writes back to me

• 15:51Speaker 03

  and he provides me with this giant box, which I said was my space box. It was full of cloth mission patches from missions. It was full of books. It was full of models. It was full of all the stuff a kid could dream of if you're a space nut. Yep. And I labeled it space box. I had it for decades. Tattered, worn, many of the things got lost to time. But I still had the box with a few things in it left. And, uh, in my space station plan, uh, in the manila envelope, he read every page, every comment, and he circled things and little callouts. And he wrote things like, this is a good idea. We do this, meaning the carbon dioxide thing.

• 16:32Speaker 03

  He says, it's called a CO2 scrubber and we do this now. Good thinking. Wow. And then he wrote me a letter, okay, which said, Dear Mark, uh, your space station plan I read with enthusiasm. I just love that line. Of course. Wow. I had a scientist read something I wrote with enthusiasm. I didn't think I'm nine. I'm thinking I'm an adult, right? That's how you think. And then he says, um, stick with the, they called it back then, the manned space program, right? Stick with the manned space program because you've got a future, you know? Uh, and, and, and he signed it, his name, Bert Lee. Gentry Lee. Gentry Lee, today, and probably retired by now, but he is JPL's head engineer,

• 17:17Speaker 03

  the Outer Space Robotic Missions Directorate. Yep. And I literally said, "I can't believe this." Okay, this is cool. And now, back then, he was just a NASA scientist. So, let's jump ahead 45 years. Okay. I remember, Gentry Lee. I should write him and find out if he remembers this. He won't, but I'll do it anyway. I wrote him. He writes me back. "I don't remember this," but that's the kind of stuff I did. He says, "We should stay in touch. This is so cool." You know? And it's really neat. Now, I was in Pasadena because I was at a conference out there. Right. And I was presenting, so I was presenting for A&E, so I couldn't leave. I didn't have a car.

• 17:59Speaker 03

  But I wanted to go to JPL in the worst way, to see if he was there, to make an appointment, to meet with him, and say hi to him. Finally, after all these years, I didn't get that chance yet. But, man, that guy, single-handedly, took a nine-year-old kid and cemented that he was going to become an astronomer. That's a real gentleman to do that, to take that time to do that. He was amazing, you know? And I've always given him kudos for this. We've talked about this, I think, in the past. I know your brother and I talked about it. Yep. You know, for me to get where I am, I've stood on the shoulders of giants. You know? None of it is, I can't say it's all me. You know, I don't have that kind of ego. You know? I've stood on the shoulders of giants.

• 18:44Speaker 03

  I was helped along the way. And I never forget who helped me. And I always make sure I name them and make, give them that credit that's due them. You know? So that's how it works, you know? But it's so cool, you know? And so here I am, some weird astronomer guy who believes UFOs exist and believes that we might have alien life on our planet. How the heck did that happen?

• 19:08AJ Gentile?

  So the nine-year-old kid goes into astronomy.

• 19:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:11AJ Gentile?

  And you start building telescopes?

• 19:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, I actually started making a reflecting telescope, which I never finished because I was, I was grinding the mirror. But as a nine-year-old kid, I was also very much unable to focus. You know? So I was grinding this mirror with a friend, Mike, and we're grinding it in this basement. And I'm like looking around and thinking, man, you know, hurry up and finish. Let's get this thing so we can look at the sky. So the mechanics of making a telescope weren't so exciting to me. Using them and looking at stuff, amazing. And I said, but wait, I want to take pictures with them. And I'm thinking, how do I attach my camera to a telescope? Now, I didn't know that they have adapters. So I made one.

• 20:00Speaker 03

  You know?

• 20:00AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 20:01Speaker 03

  No lie, out of a paper towel roll. And the camera I built out of nothing, I built it out of cardboard.

• 20:08AJ Gentile?

  You built a camera?

• 20:09Speaker 03

  I built a camera. A one-shot camera using the Instamatic film they used to have was film camera. You know? And they use a screwdriver to wind it to the next picture. I figured that's about right. And so I would actually make this camera and then I had the cardboard attached to this paper towel roll in the telescope. I had no way of focusing it. So what I did was, I figured, well, here's where the film is, and that's got to be where my eye is. So I looked where my eye is, and I took my mother's ruler and I went like this, how far away am I, you know, from the eyepiece? And so I got pictures, but of course they're blurry. You know, crappy photos, blurry. But you could see the kind of the star, and you could see a sort of a moon crater. You know? But it wasn't unsuccessful.

• 20:54Speaker 03

  But I figured I wanted to take pictures, so that's how I did it. I couldn't afford a camera.

• 21:00AJ Gentile?

  How do you end up building basically a missile silo on your front lawn?

• 21:05Speaker 03

  Oh, my, years later, let's talk about, you know, you're doing astronomy.

• 21:10AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 21:10Speaker 03

  I wanted to do astronomy and, but I wanted also to share it, you know, I took my astronomy into public outreach. I felt that that is a rigorous application of astronomy is how we're going to leave the planet eventually, you know, astronomy, physics, astrophysics, okay, and maybe even cosmology, okay, is how we're going to get there, all right? So I wanted to be an astronomer to do that. So how do you do that? Well, you, you have to bring other people into the discussion. You know, you hear people talk who are in, in, in university and they're over your head within five minutes, you know, and you're like, well, what about the people that are watching over here? How are they gonna, ah, they're not gonna get it.

• 21:53Speaker 03

  So I made it my effort and I made an effort to make it so that I take the complex and make it digestible, okay? Because even if you don't understand all the science, you should still be allowed to be in the discussion.

• 22:08AJ Gentile?

  That's why you're perfect for TV is because you'd make it accessible to all of us.

• 22:12Speaker 03

  Uh, maybe, I guess, you know, maybe that's why they found me, who knows? Okay, but the point being that if you can make something like that digestible, well, okay, it's a commodity of sorts, but I don't think of it that way, you know, I, I don't go after opportunities, you know, I mean, this came from someone else, you know, and I said, oh, I'll do it, sure, that sounds fun, you know, right? All good. So, but the point being that when you make it understandable to people, they start asking questions and they always start the same way. This may be a stupid question and go, no, no, stop, there are no stupid questions. If you don't know, you don't know. I was you once, just ask. And they're set at ease and they ask their question, well.

• 22:58Speaker 03

  The black holes really suck.

• 22:59AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 23:01Speaker 03

  Like, yeah, that's sort of true, but we don't understand gravity yet. We just know that they do, yeah. And then they go, we don't understand gravity? Oh, that's another discussion, you know? So, yeah. So, obviously, you know, obviously, that's very important.

• 23:18AJ Gentile?

  So, tell us about the dome that you built. I just love the story.

• 23:22Speaker 03

  Well, so, I wanted to be able to bring astronomy to the masses like we're talking about. And to do it, I needed to have a telescope that was always accessible. I did not like the inconvenience of having to bring it out. Hundred and fifty pounds of telescope. Mount it, align it with the North Star so that I could make it properly follow the stars, because you have to do that for telescopes, for those who don't know. And by doing that, what I did was I bought a dome for my front lawn. It was the only dome in the entire town of Terryville, Connecticut. It's this big, giant, white minion on the front lawn, okay? I dressed it up as Stuart the minion, in fact, for Halloween, okay? And people are stopping going, "Look at Stuart, ah, banana." You know, they're taking pictures of this giant minion on the front lawn.

• 24:07AJ Gentile?

  How big is it? Because my HOA won't let me put up a flag. How do you get a dome? How big is this thing?

• 24:11Speaker 03

  I don't have an HOA. That's fine.

• 24:13AJ Gentile?

  That's perfect.

• 24:13Speaker 03

  It was an eight-foot diameter.

• 24:15AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 24:15Speaker 03

  Okay? So, it stood about, maybe, eight feet tall, eight feet wide, you know? It was really, really nice, okay? I think they called it a standard two-meter dome. But, anyway, I put my computer in there, the telescope was in there, and it was protected from the weather, mostly. Except when we had, like, violent winter storms that ripped the shutters off and filled the whole thing up with snow. Telescope, computers, the whole nine yards. Luckily, it was cold, and I took everything out, and I blew it out with my air gun and managed to recover perfectly, right? So, it wasn't a perfect solution, but it was great. And so, I'd go in there, it'd be February, it'd be like minus three. Outside and it has to be minus three inside too.

• 25:00Speaker 03

  You can't heat a dome because there's a slot and the the warm air would go out and do this to the the view.

• 25:06AJ Gentile?

  Ah, you need to keep everything the same.

• 25:08Speaker 03

  You have to be ambient temperatures outside. Uh, and when I worked in a Parallax program, uh, in a big observatory, we had a 20 inch refractor that was like 35 feet long. Massive dome. You have to open the dome hours before you're ready to start doing obs- observations of nearby stars. Okay, to gauge their distance. And when you did that, it could be 10 below zero or five degrees and you gotta be in five degree weather. Not only that, you had to also work in a darkroom in the dome at the same temperature to develop all those those plates. It was actually glass plates because back then, uh, Yale University could actually measure these glass plates, uh, with a what's called a measuring engine back then. That's how they did it then.

• 25:52Speaker 03

  Now it's all digital. Thank you. Okay. But it was crazy. So I'd be in there and so I'm used to the cold, hate the cold. You know? And the gloves are never good enough. Right? You can't use heated gloves because it gives off heat. And heat causes you have problems with your image. So you gotta be the same temperature. Just breathing can be a problem in a small dome. Right? So anyway, I built the dome. The summer months, great. Okay. I had broadcast stuff in there. I broadcast to the internet and I would actually stream it on YouTube. Okay. Uh, and that was the whole Skytour livestream thing, right? And so people would come in and they still do from all over the world and just watch as I produce the universe live in real time.

• 26:36Speaker 03

  And we produce these images for people. And I say for people because everything we image, I give away. We have a server at at skytourlive.org. They can go on there and go grab the images we took a week ago. Even if they couldn't attend, they could see what we took.

• 26:51AJ Gentile?

  It's the streams are a lot of fun.

• 26:52Speaker 03

  They are.

• 26:53AJ Gentile?

  And you have another observatory in Arizona?

• 26:55Speaker 03

  I do. I have two there.

• 26:57AJ Gentile?

  And you can, can you control that remotely?

• 26:59Speaker 03

  I do.

• 26:59AJ Gentile?

  You do?

• 27:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, because I had the one on the front lawn in Terryville, Connecticut.

• 27:03AJ Gentile?

  Right, the minion?

• 27:04Speaker 03

  A minion and I controlled the minion with wifi. They go, oh, okay, network. Network for a period of time. And then I realized, you know, that way I could be inside the warm house while doing it. That's a huge leap from being in 20 degree weather. Cause I'd be saying, and this is, is, oh, gosh. You know, I forget because I'm so cold. And people are saying, "Oh, we're feeling pain for you right now." And I was like, "Oh, see, that's the wrong thing, wrong message." So I ended up working out the Wi-Fi thing, and then I'm inside. Wow, what a difference. I have a warm room now that I'm working from. Then I realized, "I want to put these in Arizona somewhere." So I convinced a friend to let me put one on his land, okay?

• 27:48Speaker 03

  And that was the first one in Arizona, out in the Sonoran Desert. You're right, you're right, on 14 miles of dirt roads after the pavement to find the observatory.

• 27:58AJ Gentile?

  Are you triangulating the objects like Avi's doing with the Galileo project?

• 28:02Speaker 03

  Interesting you mentioned that, because the other observatory in Arizona is in Benson, Arizona, which is 220 miles away. So if we image the same object from both telescopes, we could indeed do that, okay? As long as we know the exact look angles, and the exact position and altitude of the telescopes, we can do the calculation. We haven't, but we can. And that was precisely why I wanted to have them separated like that. Because if you see something in the sky, in fact, you can, you know, I talked to Avi's team, Ezra Kelderman is on his team, I talked to Ezra and several of his team members, because I wanted to offer them a Galileo site, you know? So I have a potential Galileo site for them, you know, if they want to ever use it and

• 28:47Speaker 03

  so forth. But I was also talking to them because I could maybe help them automate some of their processes. After all, I had the right software to be able to control my dome out there. And it's not even a dome, it's just a flat roof, okay, where the roof comes off, much quicker to acclimate that way. And so I wrote a control program, does housekeeping stuff, turn on power, move off the roof, do this, do that, check the temperature, blah, blah, blah. And so that all works great. So then, when I do the actual work, I'm in Connecticut, 2,600 miles away. And I thought, you know, this is a far cry from my front lawn. But if something went wrong on my front lawn, what would I do? I'd put on my hat and go out and fix it.

• 29:34Speaker 03

  Can't do that when it's out in Arizona. So I had to make it bulletproof as best I could. Sometimes we lose power for a bit. Everything gets upended. I had to have back doors to be able to shut things down even though.

• 29:48AJ Gentile?

  That only happens when you're live, by the way.

• 29:52AJ Gentile?

  Isn't that weird?

• 29:53Speaker 03

  How did you know that? There's been times where I get in and welcome everybody. Welcome to Skype, they're live streaming. Hey guys, Mark D'Antonio here, blah, blah, blah. And all of a sudden, it's all gone.

• 30:06Speaker 03

  It really, it really fills your heart with fear when you lose connection. But what I did was I circumvented that by having a secondary internet. The internet out there was okay. In Benson, we're sharing it with nine other professional astronomers on that plateau out there. And sometimes the internet goes out and then everybody's out of the water, including me. So I put a Starlink in. So now I'm connected to Starlink. The backup is the regular, you know, regular internet they provide. So I'm paying an additional 120 a month for the peace of mind to know that from 2,600 miles away, I won't lose connection to this telescope.

• 30:46AJ Gentile?

  You gotta have it. And the bitter irony that you're using Starlink, the bane of every astronomer on the planet.

• 30:51Speaker 03

  I've said that so many times.

• 30:52AJ Gentile?

  You have to do it.

• 30:53Speaker 03

  I'm taking pictures of these beautiful nebulae and depending where you are in the sky and, you know, and the thing is, a typical, a typical session, for instance, I'll be sitting there looking at objects in the sky and I've got people from all over the world watching, right? And I've been a performer all my life. I started as a magician early on. I do a lot of talks. I speak all over the country. I'm very comfortable in front of cameras. I'm very comfortable in the sets. I'm very comfortable. I know my marks. I know where to be. And that just came with time, right? So all that said, I started to think, well, you know.

• 31:28Speaker 03

  I can't let any dead air occur. I've gotta fill the space with something. So I put music in the background, some of which I make myself, okay? And others of which I use from like the YouTube galleries. I hate those, but you know, I haven't mixed in all my own stuff yet.

• 31:43AJ Gentile?

  But it makes it a show. It really does. You put on a show.

• 31:45Speaker 03

  It's a production.

• 31:46AJ Gentile?

  Yeah, it is.

• 31:46Speaker 03

  It really is a production. You're right. And, and you know, you wanna add other things. I used to have other overlays and things, but I'm one person doing eight things at once all the time. And that makes it really hard. Now, I'll tell you this. With a friend of mine, partner, who was also a magician, we built a robot together. And the robot would work at trade shows and go and talk to people. We actually worked an inauguration in Washington.

• 32:12AJ Gentile?

  A robot?

• 32:13Speaker 03

  Robot.

• 32:13AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 32:14Speaker 03

  And the robot gave, uh, it was at the time it was, uh, president's daughter. And we're giving her a tour of the Smithsonian.

• 32:21AJ Gentile?

  Which president?

• 32:22Speaker 03

  It was Clinton.

• 32:23AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 32:23Speaker 03

  So it was Chelsea.

• 32:24AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 32:25Speaker 03

  Okay? And we had her sign the robot and all that stuff, uh, whatever. So anyway, um, it was an opportunity and Electronic Data System, EDS, Ross Perot's old company, um, uh, brought us down. They said, we would like you to take Chelsea around the Museum of American History. Okay. So the museum escorted her around, talking to her, interacting with her friends. Now, what no one knew is that I was inside that thing.

• 32:50AJ Gentile?

  No, you, you were in the, the machine. I love it.

• 32:54Speaker 03

  Now, being magicians though, AJ.

• 32:56AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 32:56Speaker 03

  Being magicians, we figured out how to make this large thing look small. Uh, clever use of black and white colors allowed us to make it look impossible for a regular sized human to fit in there.

• 33:09AJ Gentile?

  This is your VFX training as well, yeah?

• 33:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was. Absolutely. Okay? And so, um, I ended up, um, doing this, escorting, escorting her around.

• 33:20AJ Gentile?

  Can we hire you to do parties or anything? Cause that would be super fun.

• 33:23Speaker 03

  They have, they have. I've worked in, in Phoenix, I've worked all over the place with this, this silly thing. Okay?

• 33:29AJ Gentile?

  What did you name it?

• 33:30Speaker 03

  Sammy.

• 33:31AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 33:32Speaker 03

  Sales and merchandising informer.

• 33:33AJ Gentile?

  I knew it had to be something like that.

• 33:35Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah. Um, and you know, um, it was sort of like a follow on from the craze with R2-D2 and Star Wars and all that. And you believe it or not, we, we called George Lucas to find out if he would have any problem with us doing this. And the response we got from his people was, "Go for it. More power to you." Now, you can't do that anymore, but we're grandfathered in.

• 34:00AJ Gentile?

  You are?

• 34:01Speaker 03

  Oh, hell yeah.

• 34:02AJ Gentile?

  So Disney's lawyers can't touch... Good for you, man.

• 34:04Speaker 03

  Grandfathered in.

• 34:05AJ Gentile?

  Good for you.

• 34:06Speaker 03

  But you know what? I don't do a whole lot of it. You know, I don't do a whole lot of it anymore. Uh, I'm an astronomer. I don't have time to sit inside a can and run around, but it's a lot of fun.

• 34:13AJ Gentile?

  It, it sounds it.

• 34:14Speaker 03

  Unless you roll over or something on the ground and it smells pretty bad, because then you have air conditioning that's pulling in from the ground. It's like, you know, we had that happen too.

• 34:23AJ Gentile?

  Um, what drew you to exoplanets? Everybody loves exoplanets.

• 34:27Speaker 03

  I know.

• 34:30Speaker 03

  Oh, it's a good one. So what'd you ask?

• 34:31AJ Gentile?

  How, what drew you to?

• 34:32Speaker 03

  Oh, oh.

• 34:33AJ Gentile?

  To specializing or?

• 34:35Speaker 03

  Uh, well.

• 34:36AJ Gentile?

  How many are out there? How do we find them?

• 34:38Speaker 03

  There's, there's, there's like about fifty-two hundred known ones right now and with, uh, but that's, that's a, a low number, but we gotta understand that that's in a small area of sky relatively. Um, when Kepler went up there, Kepler's like a laser beam. It would focus on one star at a time. Is there a planet crossing in front? Are we seeing a light curve where the light dips a little bit and then comes back up? Are we seeing that or not? Okay? And then came along TESS, Transiting Exoplanet Survey Satellite. It looks at like a ninety-six degree by, uh, or not a ninety-six degree by twenty-four degree field, something like that. And it's not a laser beam pointing a star by star. It's looking at whole swaths of stars and saying, "Are any of these transiting?"

• 35:21AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 35:22Speaker 03

  Okay? So the idea was, it should be able to find thousands more. Well, the, the TESS candidates are still being studied. There's thousands upon thousands upon thousands of them. And, um, I'm working with a group, uh, with what's called Los Cumbres Observatories. And, uh, we have time on big telescopes to actually do transit studies. Uh, and I'm working with a, another, uh, a, a kid who knew nothing about astronomy and has come a long way. It's Kid Kyle. I, you know what? I give him kudos. He would always say embarrassing things about astronomy and things we're looking at when he was first starting. Now, he's an exoplanet scientist, in his own right, because he's managed to do the diligence, and I'm really proud he's done this. And if he hears this, he's gonna say, "Oh, he talked about me."

• 36:07AJ Gentile?

  You're paying it forward.

• 36:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, but I am. I mean, because the thing is, I've helped him to understand what was going on. I would advise him. And he's taken it to heart, and he's worked really hard. So, I don't have an ego. I don't care, you know, I mean, who cares? You know, someone has to say it, right? Someone has to study unidentified objects. Someone has to study planets around other stars. Why did I start? I started because I figured the stars aren't actually looking at me, but something around those stars might be. And so, I started getting drawn to exoplanets. In fact, part of my book, The Populated Universe, has a whole section on stars that might be habitable, you know? And talks about why they would be habitable. That's a key point. You know, there's no guarantee of intelligence. And right up front, we know that.

• 36:54Speaker 03

  Intelligence is a circuitous path you follow, and by luck, you get some intelligence. Well, every creature has intelligence of some level. We, as humans, will call it rudimentary for everything below us. Aliens would probably say, "We're rudimentary."

• 37:10AJ Gentile?

  Of course.

• 37:10Speaker 03

  We always heard that. "We're just ants." We're not ants, okay, to aliens, in my view. And the reason is because they know we can hurt them. All right? When you, as a human, you're far more intelligent than an elk. But if you go into the middle of a herd of elk and say, "Hey, come here, I gotta put this radio collar around your neck," okay? You're gonna get trampled to death. Okay? So even though the elk is not nearly as smart as you, he can kill you.

• 37:36AJ Gentile?

  That's true.

• 37:37Speaker 03

  Right? So we have to keep that in mind when we talk about alien life. What are they gonna do? Are they gonna just stop us and put a radio collar around their neck? So you walk into the house with a big radio collar, "Hey, you got any pizza left?" With this giant collar around your neck, right? How's that gonna work? You know? We're not gonna notice? Well, of course we do. So, that, the concept of implants, for instance.

• 37:59AJ Gentile?

  Hang on, hang on. Before we get to aliens, I- There's something about transiting that I want to ask you that just occurred to me.

• 38:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:07AJ Gentile?

  So we know that transiting is that the star luminosity dims a little bit, a planet goes in front.

• 38:12Speaker 03

  Right.

• 38:13AJ Gentile?

  Do we have to be oriented to the orbital plane? And what stars, are we missing a ton of transits because we're just not oriented properly?

• 38:20Speaker 03

  We absolutely are.

• 38:21AJ Gentile?

  Really?

• 38:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, because if you look at my hand.

• 38:23AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 38:24Speaker 03

  If we see a solar system like this, and there's a planet going around it.

• 38:27AJ Gentile?

  Nothing.

• 38:27Speaker 03

  The only way we would know is if the star does a little wobble.

• 38:30AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 38:31Speaker 03

  And that's because the planet might be a Jupiter-sized planet, and as they go around each other, this one moves more, the small one moves more, but the big one moves a little bit. So if you look just at that motion, you'll see a little bit of motion. Now, that's called astrometry, studying the positions of stars. It's the most error-prone method.

• 38:49AJ Gentile?

  It is? Why is that?

• 38:51Speaker 03

  Because we can't measure those positions exactly.

• 38:53AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 38:53Speaker 03

  Why? Because we're looking at stars, they're just ever points of light to us. You know, and when people understand that, they look at like Betelgeuse in the night sky, the upper-left star in Orion, it's a bright red star, right? Well, it used to be bright blue. Okay, it evolved to a supergiant. And so when it stopped fusing hydrogen into helium, it went off the little snaky line we call the main sequence, where stars are that are burning hydrogen into helium. We call them normal stars, the Sun is one, okay, Alpha Centauri, those stars are others. Okay? And of all kinds. So, but once they stop, they leave that main sequence because now they're going to fuse all their elements, and when they do that, they swell, and they become these gigantic, much cooler red supergiants.

• 39:37Speaker 03

  Betelgeuse is one such star. But it's still just a point of light to us. But with something called interferometry, we can actually see the shape of Betelgeuse. It's one of the very, very few stars, that one and Antares and maybe a couple others that are as massive. Okay, we can actually see their actual shape.

• 39:57AJ Gentile?

  See the shape?

• 39:57Speaker 03

  And that's it.

• 39:58AJ Gentile?

  That's amazing, though.

• 39:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, no other stars. Alpha Centauri, 4.3 light-years away. Okay? Two stars going around each other with a third one, the red one going around, that's Proxima, where we have a planet or two going on that one, okay, as well. Well, those two stars, closest ones to us, we can't see those because they're sun-sized. If you put Betelgeuse where the sun is, it would almost reach Jupiter's orbit in radius.

• 40:22AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 40:22Speaker 03

  And then you gotta make that a huge thing, a huge diameter.

• 40:25AJ Gentile?

  Well, Proxima is a rocky planet, yes?

• 40:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean-

• 40:28AJ Gentile?

  How do we know that?

• 40:29Speaker 03

  Well, we don't.

• 40:31AJ Gentile?

  Oh, don't tell me that. I want, I want, I want the answers. I want to know that there's oceans.

• 40:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, I know. Proxima, see, Proxima is, is a red, a red dwarf. It's a tiny little star, but red dwarf stars are the most prominent, or sorry, most prolific number of stars in the whole universe are red dwarfs. Okay, the largest count are these red dwarfs. That said, the red dwarfs also have the most amount of planets around them, statistically and in all likelihood practically. So if that's the case, that means that the most likely life forms might be around these stars. Right? And you might say, yes. Well, if you look at Jupiter and you look at its moons, the Galilean satellites, right? You got Io, Europa, Ganymede, and Calisto, right? Well-

• 41:33Speaker 03

  Io is, is going like this around Jupiter. It's same face is facing Jupiter. It's tightly locked to Jupiter in the same way that our moon is tightly locked to the earth. So, around a red star, any planets going around one of these red stars are likely gonna have to be close to it for it to be in what we call the habitable zone. Right? And if that's the case, it also means for these little red stars that those planets are also tightly locked. So if you're gonna develop life on a planet like that, it's probably gonna be kind of on the sunset dark side.

• 42:07AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 42:08Speaker 03

  Where it's, on the front, it's gonna be scorching hot.

• 42:10AJ Gentile?

  So kinda just on the delimeter, I would guess?

• 42:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, the terminator.

• 42:14AJ Gentile?

  The terminator.

• 42:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, and at that point, you might see life develop a little further in. And what would life look like there? If you've ever looked at cave creatures on our planet, cave creatures in the dark, they tend to have no pigment, right? They look kinda white as gray.

• 42:30AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 42:31Speaker 03

  Operative word gray, right? But the ones that have eyes, some of them don't, okay? But if they have eyes, they're very big. Just like the grays we see in literature. Long before we thought and knew that there might be planets around M stars, people were seeing gray type aliens. Now, is it possible? And I just asked that question as a brain teaser. Is it possible that gray aliens come from these red stars? The stars that are the most numerous of any type of star in the universe. Is it possible? I can't say no. I just can't say no.

• 43:14Speaker 03

  You know, and so they have zero pigment. They're kind of grayish looking. They have big eyes. Is it possible that they are red star occupants? Wouldn't red stars be older stars? Well, here's the thing about those stars. The red stars, okay? Our sun is a 10 billion year lifetime. We're about four and a half, five billion years in. Good. We got time. Yellow dwarf. Yeah, it's a yellow dwarf. Okay. Actually, it's a white dwarf, okay? A whitish star. Right. Okay, a white star. It's called a dwarf, but it's not like a white dwarf. That's okay. We're astronomers, like to confuse you. But think about this. Pluto's a planet. Hey, it says so on my shirt. Attaboy.

• 43:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, it says I need my space and it shows Pluto as one of the planets. There you go. The whole ring. Team Pluto. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we, I knew Clyde Tombaugh. You did? I met him. Yeah, we were at an astronomy conference together and I sat with him. Did you get into a shoving match? No, I agreed with him. I felt that Pluto was definitely a planet. Yeah. Okay, back then, there was no doubt. It still was a planet. Anyway, so when we talk about, I'm forgetting where I was. We're talking about red stars. Thank you. Okay, so when we look at the red stars as being most numerous in the universe, one of the things that's interesting about them is that they're kind of flary. They give off a lot of ultraviolet flares, especially when they're young. All right? And if we look at the sun, for instance, we know it is a yellow star.

• 44:43Speaker 03

  It's actually not. In space, it's white. Okay, it's it's yellow because some of the blue light is being taken from it. Okay, before it gets to our eye because of our atmosphere. So it looks yellow in the sky, but in space, it's white. Okay, and that's the the condition, all right, that causes that is something called Rayleigh scattering. The the problem is that as we get through more air, we see the sun through more air. What's happening is more of the blue light is being removed. So the sun starts looking redder and redder and redder as it goes to sunset.

• 45:14AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 45:15Speaker 03

  Or red as it sunrises. And the reason is just because of all the atmosphere removing the blue light from that red, orange, yellow, green, blue, and the going violet spectrum coming to us from the sun. Okay, so with the blue left out, you only have the red, orange, yellow, and some of the green. Okay, so it looks predominantly red. So anyway, that relates to the green flash people see as well. So all that said, when we talk about these red stars, these little guys, they're like little percolators. The very first star to form in the universe as a red star is still existent and still percolating.

• 45:53AJ Gentile?

  Really?

• 45:54Speaker 03

  They live trillions of years.

• 45:55AJ Gentile?

  Trillions of years?

• 45:56Speaker 03

  Trillions, not billions. And why? Because they're a little different animal than stars like the sun. The sun, one of the things I had to do in astronomy was build a star, computational model of a star, and make it work at all levels. And I had to build a core, I had to build this envelope outside. The core has a, there's a radiative energy that comes out from the core for a certain distance, and then it turns to convection near the surface. Well, the red stars are convective throughout their entire diameters.

• 46:22AJ Gentile?

  Ah.

• 46:23Speaker 03

  And that means they can dredge from outside back to the inside hydrogen fuel. So the very first star in existence that's a red star is still alive today, so to speak.

• 46:34AJ Gentile?

  So if we only, if we're what, 13 and change billion years in, how do we?

• 46:38Speaker 03

  13.8.

• 46:39AJ Gentile?

  Then how do we know it can survive for trillions? What is it?

• 46:41Speaker 03

  Models, models predict that stars like this are utilizing their hydrogen at a certain rate, and based on their mass, we know how much hydrogen's in their outer envelopes, and we can calculate what their longevity is. The number comes out to trillions of years. So what does that mean for life? Life has a long time to potentially gestate on a planet like that. It can come and go, there could be flares that wipe it out, but it'll keep coming, right? I think the universe provides these templates. Okay, DNA is a template undoubtedly provided by the universe, right? Adenosine, cytosine, guanine, thymine, nucleotides. These guys make up DNA. And that DNA is something that has been brought to our planet by asteroids,

• 47:25Speaker 03

  comets, and meteor impacts, okay?

• 47:28AJ Gentile?

  I think they just found another one last week.

• 47:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly, right.

• 47:31AJ Gentile?

  With the proteins.

• 47:32Speaker 03

  That's right. And see, the mergers in meteorite was famous because it brought some amino acids to our planet.

• 47:36AJ Gentile?

  Mm-hmm.

• 47:37Speaker 03

  Okay? And when, um, there was a famous experiment called the Miller-Urey experiment in 1951 or 52. And what they did was they had a flask. And it was filled with the hypothetical primordial atmosphere on our planet. And they bombarded it with lightning and there was a spark gap. Ch-ch-ch-ch-ch. A week later, there was a brown sludge in the bottom.

• 47:59AJ Gentile?

  Mm-hmm.

• 48:00Speaker 03

  They examined it, amino acids.

• 48:02AJ Gentile?

  Hmm.

• 48:03Speaker 03

  Now, what does that mean? It means that even the Earth with its thunderstorms and its rudimentary atmosphere was creating the building blocks of life by itself. Also brought by comets and meteors and asteroids striking the planet.

• 48:17AJ Gentile?

  So you think there's tons of life out there?

• 48:19Speaker 03

  I do. I think that there's tons of life elsewhere. Is it intelligent? Well, that's the question. I had an argument with my director at the observatory when I was getting my degree. I said to him, "I think it's a populated universe out there." Now ironically, that became the title of my book later, years, years and years, decades later. But I said to him, "I believe it's a populated universe." "Look at us, we're carbon-based, we're bilaterally symmetric, same on the left as on the right." Okay? Carbon is the basis of life on planet Earth, all right? And it's probably the basis of life everywhere in the universe. That's my guess, okay? And so I said to him, "I believe, I believe that it's not just here where this has happened.

• 49:02Speaker 03

  I believe it can be in existence all over the universe in a variety of ways, in a variety of levels and capacities." Do I think that every life form is intelligent? No, I don't. Okay? Intelligence takes a certain path, right? I will say this, though. When the dinosaurs were rendered extinct... By the Chicxulub impact, there 65 million years ago, there was one dinosaur whose cranial capacity was accelerating in size, and it was called the Troodon. It's T-R-O-O-D-O-N.

• 49:34AJ Gentile?

  I did an episode on it.

• 49:36Speaker 03

  Did you really?

• 49:36AJ Gentile?

  Yes, that's how the reptilian race, they come from there.

• 49:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, and so, well, you know what? That's funny, because I used to say, "Hah, reptilians, what a stupid thing."

• 49:44AJ Gentile?

  Why not?

• 49:45Speaker 03

  Then, and then, why files? Then I realized, then I realized that I'm really being short-sighted here, because I'm looking at this in terms of Earth development, and I, I, I love alternate histories, I do. So, I worked through, what would happen if dinosaurs didn't get rendered extinct?

• 50:07AJ Gentile?

  Love it.

• 50:08Speaker 03

  What would happen? How would life change on the Earth? Well, it would still go on like it's been going on. There would still be evolutionary, you know, mutations, right? Mutation followed by adaptation is evolution, and that's exactly what we see.

• 50:21AJ Gentile?

  The Troodon was starting to form a opposable thumb.

• 50:25Speaker 03

  Yes, exactly so. I mean, this thing is very important.

• 50:28AJ Gentile?

  Yes, it is.

• 50:29Speaker 03

  Okay? And bipedalism is very important. Well, the Troodon was already kind of bipedal.

• 50:33AJ Gentile?

  Mm-hmm.

• 50:33Speaker 03

  Okay, so was it gonna reach that status? We don't know.

• 50:37AJ Gentile?

  We don't know, but it figured out that, hey, caves are kind of safe.

• 50:39Speaker 03

  Yes, that's exactly right. See, it did do that. He's a smart guy, that guy over there.

• 50:45AJ Gentile?

  Well, that's, I love alternative history also. Without, so, without that, let's just speculate, without Chicxulub, does the Troodon become the apex?

• 50:55Speaker 03

  It would, it would become one of the smartest dinosaurs, I would think, given no other downfalls, no other impacts, events, no other biological catastrophes or anything. The Troodon may have actually proceeded. Now, would the Troodon be conscious of that? I don't know, you know, who knows, right? We can speculate. But I do believe, and this is why I changed my idea, and I kept thinking to myself, "Don't go down that path. You're gonna become that, that guy that thinks reptilians are all around us or something." I'm not, okay? I'm not that guy. But I will say this, I do believe that you could have races out there that may have developed off of a reptilian branch.

• 51:40Speaker 03

  Okay? I do believe that, and here's why. If you look at how life develops on a planet, alright, you have an ancient ancestor. And then what do you have? You have, you have all this radial branches coming off it, right? Radiative adaptation, okay, all moving out in all directions. Every one of those is a different creature, different animal, different version of the same species.

• 52:02AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 52:03Speaker 03

  And those do this radiative adaptation. Many of those branches die off. In other words, they, they're not successful. Now, the question is, where do the mutations occur? They occur in the DNA to begin with, right?

• 52:17AJ Gentile?

  Mm-hmm.

• 52:17Speaker 03

  What's causing that? What do you think? I'll ask you a question. What do you think is causing the adaptations and the, I say, the mutations in creatures?

• 52:26AJ Gentile?

  Just to survive.

• 52:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, right. There's environmental pressures, right? And this one happened to be born with a thicker hide than usual. And guess what? It's going to survive the new glacial age.

• 52:36AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 52:36Speaker 03

  And its offspring will probably have thicker hides too. That's right. That's natural selection.

• 52:41AJ Gentile?

  Mm-hmm.

• 52:41Speaker 03

  Okay. But the other thing too is, we had a, we have a son, a young son. And that young son, the young, young, young, saying all wrong. The young son actually is spewing all this ultraviolet radiation.

• 52:53AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 52:54Speaker 03

  And what's that do to our DNA?

• 52:55AJ Gentile?

  It makes it unravel.

• 52:57Speaker 03

  Exactly. It unravels certain nucleotides and reassembles them another way. It causes mutations.

• 53:03AJ Gentile?

  Yes, you gotta shield from that somehow.

• 53:05Speaker 03

  Yes. And, and, and thank you for the atmosphere.

• 53:08AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 53:09Speaker 03

  For doing that. Okay, the atmosphere was a little thicker. We had up to 33% oxygen in our atmosphere at one time, which is why dinosaurs are so big and hulking. Okay? But today, a brontosaurus couldn't survive.

• 53:21AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 53:22Speaker 03

  You know, it, it couldn't have the, the oxygenation in its tissue required to survive. So we'd have to give it an oxygen mask.

• 53:31AJ Gentile?

  (laughing)

• 53:32Speaker 03

  Or make a little pocketbook one, like, who was, I think it was, I think it was Gino that said, like, Paris Hilton would have a little pocket.

• 53:39AJ Gentile?

  A little pocket dinosaur.

• 53:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, and get back.

• 53:41AJ Gentile?

  That would definitely happen.

• 53:42Speaker 03

  A little, a little pocket tie tyrannosaurus. Pocket, like, hey Rex, you know?

• 53:48AJ Gentile?

  So give me a read on the Drake's equation regarding life. Doesn't have to be intelligent. Well, how many planets do you think?

• 53:54Speaker 03

  All right, well, okay, here's the thing. When, when Frank Drake finally, first did that equation, okay, it only came out to one planet, ours. And the reason was because that's all we knew. There was many parts of the equation you didn't have answers for, like how many planets out there are habitable. We didn't have, you'd have to guess. We only knew one. One times one is one, right? And so we had to do that, and that makes sense. But there's an Italian team and another team, they each did their analysis of the new Drake equation using what we now know about exoplanet populations. The numbers are now staggering, okay? We have about 150 billion stars at the low end in our galaxy.

• 54:37Speaker 03

  At the high end, 400 billion. We can't even see the other side of our galaxy, you know? I mean, it's blocked by the central bulge and all the dark dust. We're looking through tons of dark dust all the time in our universe, in our local universe. And we can't see the other side. We're guessing based on the architecture here, or saying symmetrically, it must look like that. Okay? That said, when you look at the number of stars, let's say 150 billion right now. The estimate is right now with this Italian team, I think it was, that came up with 25 million Earth-like planets in our galaxy. 25 million. I know, it sounds like a lot. Want more? Yeah. Yeah, okay. That's at the low end, okay?

• 55:22Speaker 03

  And if you go to the high end, it looks like maybe we're talking 40 billion. Forty billion? B with a B, as in Baker. Forty billion potential habitable worlds in our galaxy. Now, that doesn't mean intelligent life, but it sure does give it a fighting chance, doesn't it? It does. Yeah, so that's the possibility that we're looking at right now, and so it's between 25 million and 40 billion. Kind of a range, man. Okay, but, and again, it depends who you talk to. You know, everybody has their own take on Frank Drake's work, and I'm kind of in the middle. I don't go to the 40 billion range.

• 56:04Speaker 03

  I actually think it's more of a percentage of the stellar population. So, based on the stellar population, in fact, that M stars are the most populous in any galaxy all throughout the universe, I think we're probably looking at maybe 10% of the star numbers in a galaxy might actually be habitable.

• 56:24Speaker 03

  Based on metrics provided by studies and so forth. So I'm kind of being a little more conservative. But 10% of 15 billion.

• 56:34AJ Gentile?

  It's plenty.

• 56:35Speaker 03

  It's a big number.

• 56:36AJ Gentile?

  What technology do we need to definitively identify that kind of planet? Transit's not going to do it, right?

• 56:43Speaker 03

  Transit gives us an idea of how many. See, we say, OK, if we're seeing this many, there have to be statistically this many more that we're missing.

• 56:51AJ Gentile?

  We're still, but we're still kind of guessing.

• 56:53Speaker 03

  That's right. It's still a guess.

• 56:55AJ Gentile?

  And what about spectrometry? What about color analysis for atmospheres? Is that enough?

• 57:01Speaker 03

  I've done spectromany. It's spectrometry too. And creating, you know, the bands, look at the different absorption bands and stuff. I've seen it. I got one going in in our observatory, actually. We're putting in a new spectrometer, actually, to make another telescope capability. And they show us what a star is made of. But if a planet passes in front, again, in front of the star, then that planet's atmosphere is going to pollute the star's spectrum with its own spectral lines.

• 57:29AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 57:30Speaker 03

  And that pollution, we call it contaminant in the spectrum, gives away the planet's condition. So if you see lines come and go periodically, another big one, you know that there's a planet doing this, you know, contaminate, contaminate, contaminate, right? Exterminate, right? So it's like we see that contamination show up in the spectrum and bam, now we're looking at some really interesting findings because now we're saying, wow, that looks like a planet. And now, based on the spectral lines, we might be able to actually determine what's in the planet's atmosphere too. James Webb is doing that.

• 58:04AJ Gentile?

  That's what my next question. What have we seen, anything in the color that makes us go, wait a second?

• 58:10Speaker 03

  Well, the thing about, the thing about the spectra is, yes, we're looking at spectra and they do tell us what's in there. But it has its own limitations too because we're only as good as the quality of the spectrum coming from the distant planet or whatever. And one of the things, for instance, I'll give you an example. James Webb made news a couple of years ago with a finding in, I think it was Kepler 18b. OK, it was one of those planetary atmospheres. Now, the planetary atmosphere was like hydrogen. It wasn't oxygen, okay, but it doesn't have to be, okay? The hydrogen atmosphere, alright, was, uh, that was the atmosphere around this planet,

• 58:55Speaker 03

  but it looks like that James Webb is also showing another compound called dimethyl sulfide. Everybody knows what dimethyl sulfide is, even if they don't know that name.

• 59:04AJ Gentile?

  If you eat corned beef and cabbage, you know it.

• 59:06Speaker 03

  Good for you.

• 59:08AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 59:08Speaker 03

  It's actually, yeah, it's the smell that's only created by life on Earth. And it's created, uh, when you, when the tide goes out, you smell the mud.

• 59:18AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 59:19Speaker 03

  You're smelling dimethyl sulfide.

• 59:20AJ Gentile?

  So we've, we've seen that.

• 59:22Speaker 03

  We all know that. And, well, okay. They had a finding showing dimethyl sulfide, and they're saying, well, that was a very aggressive analysis, a repeat analysis that was more careful, didn't seem to show it. However, it's on the radar now as a target compound to look for. Because dimethyl sulfide is only created by life. And if we can find oxygen in a planetary atmosphere of any quantity, then it's very likely it was created only by life. Because phytoplankton.

• 59:53AJ Gentile?

  Mm-hmm.

• 59:54Speaker 03

  I'm sorry, man, you're breathing bacteria poop, brother.

• 59:57AJ Gentile?

  That's, that, we are.

• 59:58Speaker 03

  That's why we're here. We're, you know, we're breathing, we're breathing the waste product from phytoplankton.

• 1:00:04AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 1:00:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:00:05AJ Gentile?

  So we're mostly nitrogen, so think of a distant planet with, how do I phrase this? Color analysis, can we tell that there is some oxygen in there, or does the dimethyl sulfide, is that overwhelm the color?

• 1:00:20Speaker 03

  No, dimethyl sulfide's sort of a minor player. Uh, and when you're saying color, we gotta be careful what you mean by that, because when we're talking about the different, the spectrum, there's different locations in the spectrum where these spectral lines will appear.

• 1:00:33AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:00:34Speaker 03

  And they're at different nanometer wavelengths, okay? And so when we do talk about that, they could be in the red end, they could be in the blue end, or whatever, you know, or green, or anywhere in between, or multiple sites at once, okay? Uh, hydrogen is usually in the red end of the spectrum, uh, but there's a blue line in there too, that you can see too. So there's a lot of different things, but if we look at a planetary atmosphere.

• 1:01:01Speaker 03

  James Webb won't be able to find oxygen directly. And it was always known that was true. And the reason is because, and I've seen these lines. When my spectroscopy that I've done, I've seen the oxygen lines in our own atmosphere affecting my stellar shots. And it's actually down in the red end of the spectrum and it's visible. Okay. It's in the visible spectrum. Now, if, this is the visible spectrum, okay? James Webb is like 200 feet that way where it's looking in the red. If this is red, it's often that far infrared. Okay? Right. So now, how can it see oxygen? If oxygen occurs here in the spectrum. Right. It can't. So somehow there has to be a way, can it see it? Well, it can.

• 1:01:42Speaker 03

  Because what happens is oxygen atoms in an atmosphere collide. And when they collide, they create an infrared signature that's out there that the James Webb can see. Oh, I didn't know that. Ah, it's an inferred oxygen. I love it. Yeah. So it's got the eye out for that too.

• 1:02:02Speaker 00

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• 1:02:46Speaker 03

  So, you know, and spectroscopy went from being kind of like a basic science in the 1800s to being this mega-science now. In fact, think about this, right? I mean, this is the truth. Everything we ever knew about astronomy is just by looking at the simple light coming from something. Right? Radio waves are light.

• 1:03:07AJ Gentile?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:03:07Speaker 03

  Just invisible light. Microwaves are light, just invisible. Gamma rays are light, just highly energetic, uh, blue light, right? So, so obviously, everything we ever looked at in the stars, it's just the light. And the other thing which I find interesting too, and this is sort of an aside, but I'm gonna take you there because I think this is cool. Universe is a time machine. Every time we look out at the universe, we're seeing it as it was, not as it, not as it is. You see the moon 1.3 seconds ago. You see the sun eight minutes ago. Okay?

• 1:03:41AJ Gentile?

  Right, Betelgeuse could be gone already, right?

• 1:03:42Speaker 03

  Exactly, and Betelgeuse is like 640 light years away, meaning it took light 640 years to get here. Well, if Betelgeuse blew up, boom, way out there, okay? Well, the light of it still being there is still traveling to us. So it's still coming to us. If this is us, it's still coming to us. And when that, when that supernova finally reaches here, we'll see it.

• 1:04:01AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 1:04:01Speaker 03

  But that'll say, ah, when we see the light, it happened 640 years ago.

• 1:04:07Speaker 03

  And I do, I have a talk I'm doing now, I'll be doing it on contact, uh, and it's about, uh, the time machine universe. We're gonna talk about what was going on on Earth when the light we see tonight left that object.

• 1:04:17AJ Gentile?

  I love that.

• 1:04:18Speaker 03

  That's so cool.

• 1:04:19AJ Gentile?

  It is.

• 1:04:19Speaker 03

  And he puts it in terms of Earth history, and people say, wow, you mean that object when the light that we see tonight left that object? Earth wasn't even formed yet? That's right. And now you're seeing light. All that travel time it took to get here, Earth evolved, Earth became a planet, Earth went through five major extinction events, and then boom, we're here now, pow, that light comes in and it's gone. And you're a witness to it. It's kind of a cool thing.

• 1:04:43AJ Gentile?

  I love it.

• 1:04:44Speaker 03

  It is, it's neat.

• 1:04:45AJ Gentile?

  Before we break and come back and talk UFOs, where is telescope technology going? Like, what's the future look like? What, what, what are we gonna see?

• 1:04:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, and, see, Earth-based telescopes, uh, are, are still progressing, right? Uh, we have the Very Large Telescope, we have the Vera Rubin Telescope, uh, I actually applied to be their outreach astronomer, actually, but alas, they wanted somebody else, which is fine, okay? But, uh, it would have been a Tucson job, right? But that's okay. So anyway, I ended up, um, looking at technology of telescopes, and for me, for me, um, the telescope pictures we're taking today with our remote telescopes? Are the equivalent of some of the spaceborne telescopes of the past. So we're finding that people with just the ability to put a telescope somewhere,

• 1:05:35Speaker 03

  a modern telescope, they have the ability to see things that just were not ever possible. And I'll be able to take spectra of stars and maybe see the pollution in a spectrum from a planet. And so telescopes are progressing to the point now where even anyone who has no knowledge of science can do real science. Okay? Of course, we guide them, right? We're trying to get them successful. We want them to be successful, right? And so we're doing these streams, right? These live streams. And we have these two, they're not large. One's a 10-inch, one's a 12-inch telescope, or 11-inch, okay?

• 1:06:19Speaker 03

  And at different locations, sometimes I'll run them both at the same time. And people can see a wide-field view of the universe and a narrow-field view of the same thing. And then they can see all these things. But the telescope technology, we have to also couple it with remote technologies. How do you, remember it used to be an eyepiece you looked in? Right. And then, how many times, when I was teaching astronomy for a science center, I would put something in the telescope view, and then someone, "Let me see," and they'd pull it. "I don't see it." Yes. And I'd be like, "No kidding. No kidding, you don't see it." All right? You just bump it with your elbow, like, "Okay." Yeah. So to get rid of that, I wanted to put a camera. So I started with a regular film camera, not a film camera, but a digital camera.

• 1:07:04Speaker 03

  It was a Sony A7S. I stick it on my telescope, take pictures, and pump that out over the internet to show people live. Well, that gave way to dedicated cameras, dedicated instrumentation. And now you can't look through the telescopes that I have without looking at a screen. Now, that's less romantic, that's less nostalgic, I agree. However, it's way more instructive and way more capable. And that's what I do. And so the telescopes came a long way. Their manufacturing processes are probably a hundredfold better than they were 30 years ago, okay? And the electronic arm for getting this stuff transmitted digitally has...

• 1:07:49Speaker 03

  We're probably heading to a technological singularity with that. I mean, we're climbing that slope so fast, and it's fantastic.

• 1:07:56AJ Gentile?

  What if we unlock the ability to build in space and can construct a giant array? Not a 20-foot, 200-feet.

• 1:08:04Speaker 03

  That's a plan. That's a plan.

• 1:08:06AJ Gentile?

  What would we see?

• 1:08:08Speaker 03

  Well, okay.

• 1:08:08AJ Gentile?

  Could we finally image the exoplanets with something like that?

• 1:08:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, actually, and here's the thing, okay? If we make a large telescope, okay, there's a limitation of what it can see. Okay, the Dawes limit, right? And that limit has to do with aperture. It's aperture, aperture, aperture, aperture. The larger aperture, the smaller thing you can image, okay? Right now, the James Webb is 21 feet in diameter. Hubble's eight. Why was it eight, you know?

• 1:08:34AJ Gentile?

  No.

• 1:08:34Speaker 03

  I'll tell you. Because eight feet fit inside a rocket tube.

• 1:08:37AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 1:08:38Speaker 03

  You can't take a circle and fit it any other way.

• 1:08:41AJ Gentile?

  Makes sense.

• 1:08:42Speaker 03

  It's gonna take eight feet either way. Either diameter's diameter, you can't, sorry, diameter's diameter, you can't change that. But the James Webb was a departure. They used those hexagonal folded mirrors, and they unfolded 21 feet out in space. First time we've ever done that, okay? And so that, 300-plus things had to work right for that thing to deploy right.

• 1:09:01AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:02Speaker 03

  I counted every one of them.

• 1:09:03AJ Gentile?

  I bet.

• 1:09:04Speaker 03

  I followed that thing. I wanted that thing to work. I wanted that thing to work in the worst way.

• 1:09:08AJ Gentile?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:09:08Speaker 03

  It was fantastic, you know? And, you know, I've known pioneers. I've known a woman that worked at Goddard Space Flight Center. She was on the team that landed on Eros, okay? And the near-earth asteroid rendezvous. And she, believe it or not, was a Catholic nun. Go figure.

• 1:09:27AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 1:09:27Speaker 03

  She was a PhD scientist. Who knew? She was at my table in my house.

• 1:09:32AJ Gentile?

  Let's not discount the clergy's contribution to astronomy over the years.

• 1:09:35Speaker 03

  No, no, no, we certainly can't, but we can discount that we actually make judgments of people when we look at them.

• 1:09:39AJ Gentile?

  For sure.

• 1:09:40Speaker 03

  Namely, Mark D'Antonio, who shouldn't have. And I know it's an aside, but she was sitting at my table, and she says, "You know, I really like the Hubble Space Telescope. I'd love to see some pictures." "Oh, would you like me to print you out some pictures from the Hubble?" "Oh, yes, please." So I went down, got my best photographic paper, printed about four or five of these nice shots. Helix Nebula, other things, really nice. Brought him up, sat down with her. And I'm telling you, yeah, and this, see this, this is hydrogen gas emission. It's making it look red. Okay, now that got teal blue, that's oxygen. And what it's doing is it's ionizing, making electrons jump off the atom momentarily, absorbing energy when they come back in called recombination. It gives off light. And she's nodding, "Oh, oh, okay." Meanwhile, the other nun, who's a relative of mine, is laughing.

• 1:10:26Speaker 03

  I'm going, "Wait a minute, what are you doing?" "Sister Florence, you shouldn't be laughing at me." Okay, I'm thinking. And meanwhile, I'm, I'm telling her these things and she's nodding. And I'm, "Little white haired old lady, I judged. I was wrong." Because Florence said, "She's an astrophysicist." And I went, "Oh, my God." And she goes, "She works at Goddard. She landed on an asteroid." I went, "That, that was you?" She goes, "Yeah." Ah! I was blown away, man. I was blown away, "I'm not worthy, I'm not worthy."

• 1:10:57AJ Gentile?

  I love it.

• 1:10:57Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. And that was Sister Mary Ellen. I can't believe it. She was a wonderful, beautiful person. You know, she passed unfortunately, but

• 1:11:03AJ Gentile?

  But brilliant.

• 1:11:04Speaker 03

  She took all that with her. Now, when Osiris Rex went out, okay, to do the asteroid sample, sample return, I contacted, I contacted the team. I said, "What are you doing? Are you doing any kind of photo dots or anything like that?" "Oh, yeah, we do. Do you have somebody you want to put on there?" "I absolutely do."

• 1:11:19AJ Gentile?

  What's a photo dot?

• 1:11:20Speaker 03

  They put a little microdot on the, on the probe, okay? And it contains all the photos and images

• 1:11:26AJ Gentile?

  Oh.

• 1:11:27Speaker 03

  of people that you want to memorialize.

• 1:11:29AJ Gentile?

  Got it.

• 1:11:30Speaker 03

  I put her in there. And they accepted it. So now she is circling the sun for a billion years, you know? I think that's really cool.

• 1:11:38AJ Gentile?

  Once again, Mark painted for it. Let's take a quick break and we'll come back and talk about UFOs?

• 1:11:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:11:42AJ Gentile?

  All right. Time to enter the realm of the weird, so.

• 1:11:45Speaker 03

  Wait, this is not weird?

• 1:11:47AJ Gentile?

  We're just getting warmed up.

• 1:11:48Speaker 03

  This is great, man.

• 1:11:50AJ Gentile?

  A story you told, I forget where it was, but it was a three night story.

• 1:11:54Speaker 03

  Oh, that.

• 1:11:55AJ Gentile?

  Take us to night one with the knocking.

• 1:11:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, that, I will tell you though, you know, when you're a science guy, you don't expect this stuff to happen to you. But what do you do when it does? You know, I mean, I, I even did a talk, I even had a lecture called, "Where Does Science Go in the Face of the Unexplained?" Now, the unexplained could eventually be science, okay? We never thought we'd break the sound barrier.

• 1:12:19AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:12:20Speaker 03

  Until we did, right? We never thought we'd find planets until we did. So there's a lot of until we dids out there, okay? And so, um...

• 1:12:31Speaker 03

  Where does, where does my thought process go? When I know there might be alien life here, never experienced it, don't know if it was, not sure if it was really here or not, but investigating it to try and find if it is. And then suddenly, you wake up one night, and you think, why am I awake? And you look over at the clock, it's exactly 3:15 a.m., right? And then you hear this.

• 1:13:02Speaker 03

  What's that?

• 1:13:04Speaker 03

  What's that going on? And then you look, and it's coming from like the peak of the window roof.

• 1:13:09AJ Gentile?

  Sets to three just like that?

• 1:13:10Speaker 03

  Like this, I, no, what is that? It's happening, something's going on up there, I don't even know what it is. And it's just persistent, you know? Now, at the time, I rescued greyhounds from the track, because it had my dogs, and I had these two greyhounds, right? And they sleep underneath a window to the right side of the bed, okay? My wife is next to me, asleep, and there's a window, and there's a screen. It's August, and you can hear the sounds of the night out there. And there's one street light you can see through the window, which is annoying to me. Whatever, right? So, as I'm sitting there, thinking, hearing this thing, I'm like, whatever, and they go back to sleep.

• 1:13:45AJ Gentile?

  Did that knock wake you, or did you wake?

• 1:13:48Speaker 03

  I'm not sure if the knocking woke me up first, and then I heard follow-ons.

• 1:13:53AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 1:13:53Speaker 03

  So, maybe, I don't know. The next night, okay, same thing, I wake up. Oh, come on, again? I'm hearing this, like, and it's like a rhythmic thing like this, you know? And then I look at the clock, 3:15 a.m. again. What is this? You know, what's going on?

• 1:14:11AJ Gentile?

  Are you frightened? Are you annoyed?

• 1:14:13Speaker 03

  I'm annoyed, I think it's like a woodpecker that's like mentally handicapped, and he's banging on my vinyl siding or something, you know? So, I get up, and I go over quietly to the dogs, sleeping under the window, and they're looking up. They're hearing this thing up there, and they're going, they're looking up there too, with their heads up in the air. So, I lean over them, grab the windowsill, and I push my face against the screen to kind of look up. I didn't want to open the window, because I didn't want to open the screens, I didn't want to scare away whatever I thought was an animal.

• 1:14:40AJ Gentile?

  Hmm.

• 1:14:41Speaker 03

  And next thing you know, I see this blanket of white light in my view, just a total white flash. Now, when you have a flash, okay, you see a hotspot and then it fades away, right? Well, that hotspot that fades away is something that you're used to if you get flash blinded, right? This was a blanket white, it was just a pure white flash in my whole vision. The same across, same intensity across the whole vision.

• 1:15:09AJ Gentile?

  A flash or a sustained?

• 1:15:11Speaker 03

  No, it was just like a "booh."

• 1:15:12AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 1:15:14Speaker 03

  And all of a sudden, I couldn't see. My eyes weren't working for a moment, and then I'm just, I'm just holding on to the sill, looking out again. I take away my face from the screen, and I'm looking out at nothing, I can't see anything, just like a haze of whitish, you know, afterimage. And then, I start to see the, the streetlight in the distance, and it starts to fade back in slowly, and stuff's coming in around it, and I'm like, I was just flash blinded.

• 1:15:41AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:42Speaker 03

  What is that? Why? I've never seen a flash blind like that.

• 1:15:45AJ Gentile?

  Does nothing frighten you, Mark?

• 1:15:47Speaker 03

  No, that, that was, that was actually, this whole-

• 1:15:50AJ Gentile?

  Good, I need to know you're human.

• 1:15:52Speaker 03

  I was terrified by what you're about to hear.

• 1:15:53AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 1:15:54Speaker 03

  There's terror here.

• 1:15:56AJ Gentile?

  Good.

• 1:15:56Speaker 03

  Okay, there's terror coming, promise, okay? So as I'm sitting there, uh, and, um, you know, waiting for my vision to come back, I thought, "I've been flash blinded, what the heck?" And now, I'm curious, I gotta know what that is. Well, first of all, I, I looked down, because I'm leaning over the dogs, they're sleeping under me, and they were just perfectly fine down there. I looked down, and they're not there anymore, they're gone. What the heck, where'd the dogs go? And, I turned on the light, and I started looking for Tycho, my male greyhound.

• 1:16:29AJ Gentile?

  Of course, Tycho.

• 1:16:30Speaker 03

  And Tycho is hiding in a laundry pile inside the closet. Hiding, not, not, not just sitting elsewhere in a room, hiding in the laundry pile. He, he sunk down behind the laundry pile and curled up. And he, he wasn't, he didn't want to come out, his ears were back. Something scared him. And Kepler, the female, okay, was outside the room, hunched down in that, that minimal surfaces pose, I don't want to be seen. Okay. And she was scared to come back into the room. And both dogs, from that point forward, just as an aside, never slept under that window again. They'd sleep in other positions in, in that room or in a different room next door. They would never come back under that window again.

• 1:17:11AJ Gentile?

  I think every pet owner's seen this, your cat or dog, like sees, like, what do you see that I don't see?

• 1:17:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, they, something scared them.

• 1:17:18AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 1:17:18Speaker 03

  You know, and so after I got my vision back, I was like, what is going on? So, uh, later on in the, that, that day, I, I basically forgot about it. I came home from work, I was actually working a quote-unquote real job at that point. And when I came home, I went outside, looked up at the window from the outside. Looking to see pecks into the vinyl siding like a woodpecker and then maybe I hit a nerve when I turned my head or something. You know, but it was just a flat blindness, it was the weirdest thing. So then, um, that third night now, I wake up again. I'm like, oh, man.

• 1:17:55AJ Gentile?

  Tap, tapping again?

• 1:17:56Speaker 03

  No, I'm not hearing any tapping now. Now, I'm just awake and I'm thinking, is this 3:15 a.m. again? And I went to turn my head, I couldn't move my head.

• 1:18:07AJ Gentile?

  Oh, no.

• 1:18:08Speaker 03

  So then I went to move just my eyes and my eyes wouldn't move, my eyes wouldn't move.

• 1:18:12AJ Gentile?

  Sleep paralysis?

• 1:18:13Speaker 03

  You know, it was more than a, a hypnagogic type thing, because I've used that for meditation, actually.

• 1:18:18AJ Gentile?

  So you know what that is?

• 1:18:19Speaker 03

  I know it is, I get into it on purpose, so I can actually relax and sink, you know, it really feels good when you do it right. So I'm sitting there going, what the heck's going on? I tried to move my eyes. You can, you can move your eyes. I couldn't even move my eyes, my eyes were fixed and they wouldn't, if I tried to move them, it felt painful. Like something was restricting it. And I thought it was like a medical thing that happened, I'm thinking, oh, no, I'm gonna die here, no one's gonna find me or something, you know, weird thing. So. At that point, I watched from the side, I saw something eclipse that street light. I couldn't look at it, but I saw it in my peripheral vision. I could see my hand here in peripheral vision. While I'm looking at you, I see my hand.

• 1:18:57AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:18:57Speaker 03

  Well, I saw something pass in front of that, that rough, you know, dim outline of the window. Passed in front of it. And then it's doing this, it's coming toward me, getting bigger in my vision. I'm like, what the hell is this?

• 1:19:08AJ Gentile?

  You can't see its shape?

• 1:19:10Speaker 03

  No, it's dark.

• 1:19:11AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 1:19:11Speaker 03

  But then it extended something and it had like a, looked like a wand, like a magician's wand. But it was like a pen, but it was glowing soft white. And it's here, right here. And I, I'm looking at you in the same way that I had to look because this is where my eyes were stuck fixated on. I couldn't move and look down. And it wouldn't let me, but I saw for all the world, gray, long fingers.

• 1:19:36AJ Gentile?

  Oh, come on.

• 1:19:37Speaker 03

  Like a hand. And then I felt something going up in this sinus. And it was like, whoa. And then it was morning and boom. I was lying with my hands on my sides, face down in my pillow and unable to breathe. Okay?

• 1:19:50AJ Gentile?

  Why couldn't you breathe?

• 1:19:51Speaker 03

  Because I moved my hands up and I pushed out the pillow, like that. And I looked down on the pillow, filled with blood. Concave, like I was sleeping in a lake of my own blood. And it came out of here, out of this sinus. And it felt like someone punched me really, really hard. Now, could that have been just a strange nosebleed with a wild dream? Sure.

• 1:20:12AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 1:20:13Speaker 03

  Over three nights?

• 1:20:14AJ Gentile?

  Hmm.

• 1:20:14Speaker 03

  With a knocking?

• 1:20:15AJ Gentile?

  And frightened dogs.

• 1:20:17Speaker 03

  And the frightened dogs? There's a lot of, there's a lot of concurrent things going on that make this really strange.

• 1:20:23AJ Gentile?

  What are you feeling when you wake up? Are you frightened? Are you, do you, I have to go to the doctor?

• 1:20:29Speaker 03

  You would think that.

• 1:20:31AJ Gentile?

  You would?

• 1:20:32Speaker 03

  Anyone that goes through such a terrifying encounter is gonna say, I gotta get to the doctor and get my face checked. No, no. Instead, what does Mark do? Mark goes and takes a shower, goes to work and forgets about it. Now, wait a minute.

• 1:20:44AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 1:20:45Speaker 03

  Think about that.

• 1:20:48Speaker 03

  That's not right.

• 1:20:50AJ Gentile?

  It's not.

• 1:20:50Speaker 03

  It's not proper behavioral response. Okay, so it took me two full years of not being able to breathe out of this side of my nose. The whole time, from that night forward, this was blocked forever. And so it was like this, it was like this side only, this, the right side only. I go to the surgeon, ear, nose and throat doctor in Hartford, Connecticut. Okay, all public record, which is cool. I go into his office, yeah, hi, doctor, um, I can't breathe out of this thing. And when did this happen? Uh, about two years ago. No, oh, okay, well, let's take a look. He looks up there.

• 1:21:27AJ Gentile?

  You didn't tell him what happened.

• 1:21:28Speaker 03

  No, not at that point.

• 1:21:30AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:21:30Speaker 03

  Okay, uh, I'll get to that, though. So then he looks up there and he says, holy cow, he says, and I said, those are words you don't want to hear a doctor say. And he lads goes, oh, he goes, but I will say this, you've got something huge up there. And I went, really? Yeah, he goes, I, I think we can get it out. And I said, okay. And how can we do that? He says, well, we can numb it up and I'll, I can reach up there. We can use a special lasso and then, and, and get rid of it. It's, it's a, looks like it's, it's something we call a nasal polyp, but it's like the biggest one I've ever seen. He said, no lie, those were his exact words. I'm like, wow. And, uh, he's been in business like 40 years at that point.

• 1:22:10AJ Gentile?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:22:11Speaker 03

  So he goes up there, he snares it, he pulls it out. It's this big, size of my two thumbs stacked and it comes out through that little hole. Okay, I felt like, uh, Arnold Schwarzenegger.

• 1:22:21AJ Gentile?

  That's what I'm, that's what I'm thinking of.

• 1:22:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. And it's like, ah, put it out, put it out now, pull it out, you know?

• 1:22:28AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:29Speaker 03

  Get it out, right? That's what it felt like to me.

• 1:22:31AJ Gentile?

  Did you see it?

• 1:22:32Speaker 03

  Of course I did.

• 1:22:32AJ Gentile?

  What is it?

• 1:22:33Speaker 03

  I, I, it's, it's a, it's a, it looked like a fleshy mass, okay?

• 1:22:36AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 1:22:37Speaker 03

  Disgusting looking, okay? Uh, and it wasn't moving, nothing moving. My first words, can I have that? I did, I want that.

• 1:22:46AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 1:22:47Speaker 03

  I want that.

• 1:22:47AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 1:22:48Speaker 03

  Okay, oh, no, no, we have to send this down to pathology to make sure it's not a malignant, you know, uh, you know, tumor or something. He says, but, um, I'm pretty sure it's benign. He said, but you can absolutely not have it. And, and now yet, he still doesn't know anything yet. So I said, okay, well, can you at least have them check the center of it?

• 1:23:11Speaker 00

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• 1:23:54Speaker 03

  To see if there's something in there that doesn't belong there. And he said, "Oh, you mean like a splinter that a machinist might get?"

• 1:24:01AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:01Speaker 03

  Yes, exactly that. "Yeah, I can do that. Why?" And you know what's coming. I told him the story.

• 1:24:09AJ Gentile?

  You did?

• 1:24:09Speaker 03

  A little bit.

• 1:24:10AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 1:24:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, not to the detail I even shared with you. He laughs. He goes, "I'm sure it's not aliens." I go, "Of course not. Who would think it's aliens?" You know, maybe me. I don't know. And he says, "All right, call me in a week and I'll let you know." "Okay, thanks." I left. I call in a week. "Yeah, hi, it's Mark. I was going..." "Oh, hold on, doctor has to talk to you."

• 1:24:31AJ Gentile?

  Uh-oh.

• 1:24:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, uh-oh, right? Yeah, uh-oh, and my heart's going, "What happened?" Maybe it's like my head's gonna fall off? You know, what's gonna happen here? He gets on the phone. "Hey, Mr. D'Antonio, just want to let you know. It's probably benign, nothing to worry about, okay?" "Oh, so you don't have the results from pathology yet?" And his response was no response. He paused and he goes, "Well, I've seen these before. This looks benign," he says, "but in all honesty..." Hate those words. "In all honesty..." Because that's what happens before you lie.

• 1:25:05AJ Gentile?

  It is.

• 1:25:06Speaker 03

  "In all honesty, I sent it down to pathology and they can't find it."

• 1:25:13AJ Gentile?

  They lost it?

• 1:25:14Speaker 03

  They lost a sample of someone's tissue.

• 1:25:18AJ Gentile?

  Is that something that happened in his career often? He was just losing?

• 1:25:22Speaker 03

  His response.

• 1:25:25Speaker 03

  I've been doing this for whatever time thirty-five, forty years. He said, "This is the first time this has ever happened in my office." I went, "Of course it was." Now, he says, "But it's, it's, it's not a problem. It's benign." Okay. All right. Thank you. So I left. And, um, wasn't happy with that outcome, but I said, "I don't, I don't know where it went. Maybe it really was lost. Maybe it really was just some kind of stupid polyp, you know? However, two years later, I went in again for something else. And you know how you fill in the intake sheet? Sure. Well, I always say I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, uh, pregnant and lactating and, you know, I always do that. I make funny cartoons. Don't do, don't do, don't do that.

• 1:26:08Speaker 03

  I do, because the medical assistants, they, you know, my wife's a medical assistant. And she has to read those too. And so. I'm stealing that bit. Go on. You should. I entertain them, you know? Right. As well, because I'm a consummate entertainer that way. I just want people to have fun, you know? So these things are meaningless many times. So, but then for my, my career, what do you do? I told him I do, uh, special projects for the Navy. Okay. Oh, okay. So, uh, and I just left it at that, you know? Well, I go in, I sit down, he walks in with the sheet. He's reading the intake sheet and he's laughing. He goes, "My medical assistants love you. This is funny stuff. I drew cartoons and pictures, you know, all that stuff." He's like, "You're forty-five minutes waiting for a thing that's like forty-five minutes late.

• 1:26:52Speaker 03

  I'm gonna draw cartoons, darn you." Right. Okay. I'm gonna entertain myself. Okay. So anyway, um, he sits there and he looks, and he looks at the thing. He says, "Special projects, huh?" "Oh, yeah." And I, I told him some more details. And then he does something I never saw a doctor do in my entire career of going to doctors, entire, entire life. He hopped up on the exam table next to me.

• 1:27:16AJ Gentile?

  I don't like that at all.

• 1:27:16Speaker 03

  No, I know, I was like awkward.

• 1:27:18AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:18Speaker 03

  Awkward. I was like this, and I go, and he goes, you know, he's looking out the window, like we're two kids on a cliff looking over a lake or something.

• 1:27:27AJ Gentile?

  Just wistfully.

• 1:27:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, wistfully, remembering, because I just gave up my top secret clearance this year.

• 1:27:34AJ Gentile?

  This year? So he was cleared when you?

• 1:27:37Speaker 03

  You know it. And I looked at him and huh, that's interesting. Now, I know from having done work in that arena that you report everything down to your handlers, the people that you worked for, at all times, because otherwise you're liable. You actually can be criminally charged if you knowingly don't report something that you should have.

• 1:28:02AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 1:28:04Speaker 03

  So he probably called and they probably said, okay, where is this thing you took out? And he told them, you know, in the pathology department here at Hartford Hospital. And so they probably then said, okay, thank you. Okay, bye. Under oath, under polygraph, he doesn't actually know who took it. Under oath, under polygraph, he can't say who took it and where it went.

• 1:28:29AJ Gentile?

  No, it's all compartmentalized by design.

• 1:28:31Speaker 03

  You got it.

• 1:28:32AJ Gentile?

  So what do you, what do you think it was? Did, could you feel metallic? Could you taste metallic, plastic?

• 1:28:38Speaker 03

  No, but what I found out, what happened after was what made me realize there was something more to this. Okay, now, yes, I suspected there was more to it because of the terrifying encounter.

• 1:28:49AJ Gentile?

  Of course.

• 1:28:50Speaker 03

  However, I, I second guessed myself. Did it really happen? You know, did it happen that way? And as I reproduced and recreated the results in my head, watched it, watched it events over again, over and over and over, I came to the conclusion, this was real, man. I had no other way to say this wasn't real other than to say it happened. It's as real as me talking to you right now. Is this real or is this memorex? You know, is this a brain dream? Uh, no, we, we objectively can decide what reality is.

• 1:29:20AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 1:29:20Speaker 03

  And I decided that that was actually reality. That actually did happen. So, um.

• 1:29:27Speaker 03

  Sometimes, when it was taken out at first, I would be driving down the road and I'd feel a burning pain right where it used to be, and I'd hear a high pitched whine in my head.

• 1:29:37AJ Gentile?

  Really?

• 1:29:38Speaker 03

  Really loud, yeah. I'd have to pull over. And it persisted for like, two years afterwards. It would do that every now and then, no pattern to it, okay? And then it went away, for like, a decade.

• 1:29:53AJ Gentile?

  No more tapping, no more light, no more...

• 1:29:55Speaker 03

  Nope. And then, recently, it started happening again. I start getting, I mean, within the last eight months to nine months, I started feeling this pain.

• 1:30:03AJ Gentile?

  From now?

• 1:30:04Speaker 03

  From nine months ago, from today. I would feel this pain again, and hear that high pitched whine. I'm like, what the heck? You know?

• 1:30:11AJ Gentile?

  Mothership's trying to find you.

• 1:30:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, know what it is? If you, if you have an electrical circuit, you know all about this.

• 1:30:17AJ Gentile?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:30:17Speaker 03

  You design a circuit, you try to put charge through a circuit, and the component is substandard, it's gonna go pop, and it's gonna burn, right? Or something's gonna happen, you're gonna have a short circuit. Alright, it felt very much like, and sounded very much like a short circuit, going on up in there. Was it? I don't know.

• 1:30:36AJ Gentile?

  Have you had it looked at since?

• 1:30:37Speaker 03

  I have had it, I've had multiple MRIs, okay? And the MRI show clear, it's clear, you know? So what's going on up there? Why is it doing that? No one knows, you know? This is weird stuff. And like I said, where does science go in the face of the unexplained? I can't explain this, man. AJ, I'm at a loss for words.

• 1:30:58AJ Gentile?

  So you're doing some special work for the Navy, and you end up somehow on a submarine?

• 1:31:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, that was decades ago, actually.

• 1:31:07AJ Gentile?

  I always felt like UFOs, UAP, I still call them UFOs, I always felt like there's more of them in the ocean. And your experience on that sub was very interesting to me. Can you tell us?

• 1:31:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, you know, I'll tell you right now, everybody's always looking up for UFOs, okay? But there's a growing number of people looking under the water for USOs, unknown submerged object. I've always said to people, they go where we are not, okay?

• 1:31:32Speaker 03

  Because if you're a science team gonna study elk in the Yukon, what are you gonna do? You're gonna go right out in the middle of the elk herd and say, "Hey, come here, let me study you."

• 1:31:39AJ Gentile?

  Nope, you set up a blind.

• 1:31:40Speaker 03

  It will kill you.

• 1:31:41AJ Gentile?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:31:41Speaker 03

  You set up a blind, yep, and you watch him from a distance. You tranquilize one, abduct it.

• 1:31:47AJ Gentile?

  Yep, put something in its nose.

• 1:31:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tag in the ear. Okay, well, the elk don't notice that, but humans would. You know, "Hey Frank, where'd you get that tag?" "Oh, I don't know, got some pizza?" I mean, right, and we're not gonna do that.

• 1:31:58AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:31:59Speaker 03

  We're gonna notice that stuff. So, the bottom line is that they're gonna, they're basically gonna say, "Uh, we need a surreptitious way to do it." So, they use sinus, potentially sinus implants, right? That's one of the things Roger Lyer was into.

• 1:32:10AJ Gentile?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:32:11Speaker 03

  Okay, all that, and, and maybe that's happening. Maybe that's real. You know, my experience seems to indicate it was, right? I can't say. But, when I was on the submarine, okay...

• 1:32:22AJ Gentile?

  And why were you on a submarine?

• 1:32:23Speaker 03

  Okay, well, first of all, I did some project work for the Navy. And I literally was asked, "Would you like to go out on a submarine, US sub?" "Yeah." Who wouldn't wanna go out on a sewer pipe with end caps in the middle of the ocean?

• 1:32:37Speaker 03

  You know?

• 1:32:38AJ Gentile?

  This guy.

• 1:32:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:32:39AJ Gentile?

  But go out.

• 1:32:39Speaker 03

  Well, I, at that point, I was making submarine models that actually functioned. I actually made working subs that had real ballast tanks. And these were models, but they would go in lakes, World War II German U-boats, modern submarines. I had, I had research subs like the Alvin.

• 1:32:55AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 1:32:55Speaker 03

  Okay, I did engineering, uh, uh, talks for the Woods Hole Ocean Graphic Institution using the Alvin I created, which could dive deep and come back to the surface. Oh, it was so cool.

• 1:33:04AJ Gentile?

  Super cool.

• 1:33:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, really cool stuff. You know, there's engineering there, real engineering. So, that was kinda neat to actually go through all that. Well, anyway, um, as a thank you for some project work, they said, "Do you wanna go for a, a trip on a sub?" "Yeah." I didn't know what I was getting into. Um, I've only been at subs at the dock, uh, up to that point. And I'd been in the Virginia class, the Sea Wolf class. But I was able to go all over the boats. I mean, to be honest, I could go anywhere. I've been in, in dry dock with some of the boats and, and places that people normally don't get a chance to see. Uh, and so, I said, "I wanna go." So, I showed up at the subbase, I think it was like five in the morning. Boat left by, uh, 7:30 AM.

• 1:33:52Speaker 03

  But I never even realized we left the dock until I started to feel this, the whole boat swimming around under my feet. And I thought, oh, I'm getting dizzy. What's going on? Well, that's the river and the water causing the boat to move and do this compound motion in the water. And man, I got seasick. I'm not, I'm not proud, man. I was seasick, sick as a dog. Right? So I thought, oh, man, I have to have dinner with the captain later in the wardroom.

• 1:34:17AJ Gentile?

  Oh, no.

• 1:34:18Speaker 03

  I don't want to be sick.

• 1:34:19AJ Gentile?

  No.

• 1:34:20Speaker 03

  No. And I was scared. So, um, once we got out to sea, okay, um, and they dive the boat. It feels like everybody listening and watching feels right now. You can't tell you're moving. Okay. There's no motion. Except when you go through water of a different temperature, you get a little bit of vibration. And that's how you know that you're moving because you're getting that vibration of, you know, okay, warmer water up front, colder water at the back. Hmm. Translates through the hull. Okay. And that stuff is, uh, that's how you know you're moving. That's the only way you know. If you're moving at high speed and you turn, they bank. So you kind of feel a little weird and heavy, but you never feel like you're being whipped to the sides.

• 1:35:02Speaker 03

  You either get heavier or you just feel that vibration. So it's very, very little, uh, force. So anyway, um, all of the motion while we're on the surface, the boat doesn't dive until it's way out into the Atlantic.

• 1:35:17Speaker 03

  And as I said, it's a sewer pipe with end caps. It rocks and rolls, brother.

• 1:35:20AJ Gentile?

  Hmm.

• 1:35:20Speaker 03

  And that thing, it just knocked me for a loop. And I was like, oh my gosh, why did I come on this boat? The hallway is doing this and I'm trying to, I was like, okay.

• 1:35:28AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 1:35:29Speaker 03

  So I talked to the, uh, kid that passes the doctor on the boat and they gave me this weird thing called a patch. Oh, I never saw that before. I thought it was like, you know, witch doctor science. He just stuck it on my neck right there. So you should be okay in a little while, sir. And, okay.

• 1:35:45Speaker 03

  What was that, was scopolamine, whatever it was? Well, they tried it on the Navy before they tried it on us. Now you can get one.

• 1:35:51AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 1:35:51Speaker 03

  All of them, go to CVS, you can grab one.

• 1:35:54AJ Gentile?

  Get it in the airport.

• 1:35:54Speaker 03

  That's right, exactly. But the Navy had them first, okay? And I tried one of these new things and it worked, but it took hours, a couple of hours to work. So while I was trying to work, I sat down, I asked permission to sit next to the active sonar um and just watch the kid do the sonar. Uh, and once under the water, okay, um, the boat felt like we feel now. And I was like, okay, if I can, I can handle this as long as my stomach comes back. I dreaded eating in front of the captain and having, you know, having that.

• 1:36:27AJ Gentile?

  You keep, you keep watch, checking your watch.

• 1:36:29Speaker 03

  I was like, oh, man, you know, this is bad. So anyway, uh, as I'm sitting there, um, I'm actually sitting up straight now in a submarine. It's not quiet. It doesn't sound like it does in this beautiful studio in the basement with a cool window. Okay? It doesn't. It sounds, there, there's a cacophony of sound. There's stuff going on all the time. You hear high pressure air, you hear people talking, you hear machinery. It's really, really loud in a boat. So it's hard to hear yourself talk. And then when you make announcements over the intercom, everybody has to stop and listen. No matter what your conversation, what your conversation is, you gotta stop and listen because that dominates and you let it pass, just like at the airport. You know, when they start making these announcements, you know, you know, you know, well, sonar's all these come back that.

• 1:37:12AJ Gentile?

  Yeah, when you hear the whistle, you stop moving.

• 1:37:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, you, you do. And you just stop moving and listen and let it pass. So anyway, uh, several of those things happened too. But while I'm sitting there, I'm drifting off, sitting up vertically, you know, and I even, I made the mistake of trying to move the chair closer to the sonar station. They're locked down, man. Okay. And they looked at me, go, huh, newbie, you know? Yeah, you're a noob, man. You know, and so I go, sorry. And so I'm trying to get my stomach back. I closed my eyes, I leaned back, crossed my arms and I start to drift off to sleep. All right, thinking, okay, I'll get my stomach back. Dinner will be great. It'll be fine. I'm not gonna have a problem. All right? Right? This is all good. And while I'm thinking that, I'm hearing con sonar, con sonar, fast mover, fast mover.

• 1:38:00Speaker 03

  What? What? I'm like, now my heart's going, I'm thinking, is that a torpedo? Are we gonna die out here? What the heck happened? Oh my gosh, I should never have come on this cruise.

• 1:38:11AJ Gentile?

  Of course.

• 1:38:11Speaker 03

  I should never have come on this boat. I'm thinking, I'm, I'm, I'm, no, this is bad. I can't believe this. The executive officer, XO, comes around the corner.

• 1:38:20AJ Gentile?

  Just sauntering.

• 1:38:21Speaker 03

  Sauntering around, really calm, what do you got? I'm like, huh, I'm thinking, faster dude. There might be a torpedo. We might have to maneuver, you know, get away, you know, drop decoys. Do whatever you gotta do, you know? And that's what I'm thinking. I didn't say, I'm just sitting there like this. Hmm, you know, like a little worried. And the kid at the sonar turned to the side and he's away from me and, and the XO is up there talking down to the kid who's facing away from me. Remember I told you it's noisy in a boat?

• 1:38:50AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 1:38:50Speaker 03

  He gives the bearing and the range, which I did not hear. Okay, but then the XO said, how fast is that moving? And the kid did a calculation and he turned and he put his arms out like this and said, several hundred knots, sir.

• 1:39:02AJ Gentile?

  Several hundred knots?

• 1:39:04Speaker 03

  Hundred, several hundred knots. And he's like this, like, oh, okay, what's going on? You know, he doesn't understand what it is. Now, sonar guys are supposed to know everything they hear.

• 1:39:16AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 1:39:16Speaker 03

  That's their specialty. That's why they go to school. That's why sub school's so important. They have to learn all the sounds. They can tell if there's barnacles. Okay, on a frigate's propeller. Okay, and, and which one it is and how many RPMs it's turning and all that stuff. All that stuff from the sound.

• 1:39:31AJ Gentile?

  Did you see his waterfall display?

• 1:39:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's just water. It looks like the Matrix to me. I don't know what it is, you know, it's, it's.

• 1:39:37AJ Gentile?

  So you couldn't see a shape?

• 1:39:38Speaker 03

  I, there's no shapes.

• 1:39:39AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 1:39:39Speaker 03

  It's, it's lines. Okay, and this apparently was a transient, which I didn't even see because my eyes were closed. Okay, um, and so he, he says to the XO, several hundred knots. And the XO, without missing a beat, says, okay, son, log it and dog it. Yes, sir. He said, well, sir, yes, sir. Now, log it and dog it. What? No, hey, come on, no, no, no. Now, seasickness, whatever, it's gone.

• 1:40:07AJ Gentile?

  Of course.

• 1:40:08Speaker 03

  My adrenaline went, poof, out you go. And I got up like a big shot, because I'm a big shot, right? I'm a VIP, man. I've been invited. I'm special.

• 1:40:16AJ Gentile?

  Dinner with the captain.

• 1:40:17Speaker 03

  You see where this goes, where it's going. I get up, I go up to the XO, sir, um, excuse me, I've, I know what these fast movers may be. Is there anything I can help you with, sir?

• 1:40:28Speaker 03

  And he looks at me and he goes, "Dantonio, correct?" "Yes, sir." He says, "You having a good trip so far?" "Sir, yes, sir." "Let's keep it that way." And he turns and walks away. So I was like, "Okay, I'll go back." I sat back next to that sonar squirming like a little kid, thinking, "Wow, this is crazy. I gotta get off this boat. I can't wait to get off. I gotta research this. What are these things?"

• 1:40:46AJ Gentile?

  But his calmness in that moment told you something, didn't it? That this is something that they see all the time.

• 1:40:53Speaker 03

  That's what struck me. It's like, why was he even phased? It was the term "fast mover." Now, the kid had never seen a fast mover before.

• 1:41:01AJ Gentile?

  Like 80 knots, maybe it's a concern. 350 knots?

• 1:41:05Speaker 03

  No, it's several hundred.

• 1:41:06AJ Gentile?

  Several hundred. So what's the fastest sub on Earth? Forty?

• 1:41:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, maybe. Okay, and see, the thing is about the torpedo, let's talk about torpedoes. Because I thought it was a torpedo. The fastest torpedo on the planet is owned by the Russians. It's a rocket torpedo. It spews steam out of its nose and coats that torpedo body with a laminar flow of steam. So effectively, the torpedo is racing into its own vacuum.

• 1:41:31AJ Gentile?

  I love it. It's gorgeous. I love it.

• 1:41:32Speaker 03

  Right?

• 1:41:33AJ Gentile?

  But still, how fast?

• 1:41:34Speaker 03

  But that's 200 knots. However, it's the loudest thing in the ocean.

• 1:41:38AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:41:39Speaker 03

  You can hear that thing anywhere in the ocean. It's what's called a desperation weapon. You fire it, they know where you are, you're dead. It's the last thing you ever do.

• 1:41:46AJ Gentile?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:41:47Speaker 03

  Okay, it's the last act of defiance. You know, it's like a mouse giving an eagle the finger, right?

• 1:41:52AJ Gentile?

  Right, right.

• 1:41:53Speaker 03

  "Yeah, it's not much for you." So, the bottom line is, okay, it wasn't the Skval torpedo. It was something else that was really quiet and moving several hundred knots. And I wish I heard the bearing in the range, you know, the angle off the boat and the distance. I didn't have that information. I couldn't hear that.

• 1:42:10AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:11Speaker 03

  So, when I got off the boat, finally, I raced home and I started trying to figure out what these USOs were because this sounded like a USO to me. And now, I'd heard about them, I studied them, never expected to see or hear of one. And as I'm going through the USO stuff, I'm learning way more about them than I thought I actually knew.

• 1:42:38AJ Gentile?

  What are you seeing? What are you learning?

• 1:42:39Speaker 03

  More Navy see them than ever before. The Russians I knew saw them. They're not the only ones.

• 1:42:45AJ Gentile?

  Of course.

• 1:42:46Speaker 03

  Other people in our own Navy did, and I started talking to other submariners.

• 1:42:52Speaker 00

  In deepest jungle, Cartier's panther spies a wandering bird that circles the skies. A lovebird, lost and missing his mate, is far from his pass in lonely state. Dry your tears, now bears a start. Follow my steps to heal your heart. Panther stalks through the leaves with silent grace. Through the power of scent, she finds the trace. Behold, two lovers reunite in the skies. A most precious thrill sparkling in their eyes. Together forever, they shine each day, bound by the beauty of Cartier.

• 1:43:35Speaker 03

  And they said, "Oh, on our boat, we call those jellyfish." Which is kind of the joke, because jellyfish don't move.

• 1:43:41AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:43:42Speaker 03

  They float in the water column, right? They don't move. But if it's moving several hundred knots, they don't know what to call it. They call it jellyfish, just to be funny.

• 1:43:49AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:43:49Speaker 03

  Because they have to officially call it something, you know? So there's other boats that call them by that name.

• 1:43:56AJ Gentile?

  Have these been photographed?

• 1:43:57Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:43:58AJ Gentile?

  They haven't?

• 1:43:58Speaker 03

  This is sonar stuff, you know? It's all sound. Sound coming to the boat through passive arrays. All right? So they just don't have any idea what it actually is. Now, in the 50s, there was a five-sub task force with another task force of surface ships off Puerto Rico. Oh, 60, I think it was 1960. And one of the subs heard something, and it started giving chase. It didn't know, the people in the boat did not know whether this was part of the exercise or not. So they're doing what they think they gotta do: give chase.

• 1:44:30AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:44:30Speaker 03

  They chased it for two or three days. It was going full ocean depth and then going all the way to the surface within seconds. It was letting them approach and then rocketing off at high speed.

• 1:44:40AJ Gentile?

  Within seconds?

• 1:44:41Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:44:42AJ Gentile?

  So this is, there's no people doing that?

• 1:44:44Speaker 03

  Correct. We don't, no. Not people.

• 1:44:47AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:44:47Speaker 03

  Not people, nor even if it's aliens. There's no aliens, okay, that can race and do like a 90-degree turn in the sky either, as we may get to.

• 1:44:55AJ Gentile?

  Which we, yeah, we'll get to that.

• 1:44:56Speaker 03

  They don't have to. They don't have to.

• 1:44:58AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:44:59Speaker 03

  All right? So the point is, something was out there, and they showed that this, in fact, was not a machine issue, a fake problem, an enigma with the machine. The machines were all working right. Sonar system are all on top of their game, doing their thing. Uh, so what was it? To this day, we don't know. Now, uh, the, uh, there's another, there was a Japanese freighter traveling to Japan, another incident. And this was like the, uh, Kusagawa Maru or something like that. Um, and it was traveling when all the people that, all six crew members on this boat, watched these silver discs flying out of the water. Phew, whoosh, whoosh.

• 1:45:44Speaker 03

  Okay? And they actually had the presence of mind to mark the latitude and longitude of where this was.

• 1:45:50AJ Gentile?

  Interesting.

• 1:45:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:45:51AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 1:45:51Speaker 03

  Of course, I researched that. You know where that latitude and longitude put them? Right at the southern end of the Marianas Trench. Exactly at the southernmost point.

• 1:46:01AJ Gentile?

  The deepest place on earth.

• 1:46:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:46:03AJ Gentile?

  That where we can't go.

• 1:46:04Speaker 03

  The Challenger Deep.

• 1:46:05AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:46:05Speaker 03

  Well, Jim Cameron can go there.

• 1:46:06AJ Gentile?

  Well, he can, but...

• 1:46:07Speaker 03

  And Trias did, Trias did.

• 1:46:09AJ Gentile?

  True.

• 1:46:09Speaker 03

  But a different part of it, right? So, isn't that interesting? Why there? You know, is that, the point being, because they could. I've said this before and you heard me say it. They go where we are not.

• 1:46:20AJ Gentile?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:46:20Speaker 03

  So if they go where we're not, well, we're never there. So they're safe there. But wait, Mark, the pressure is incredible. Of course it is. So how do they mitigate the pressure? No, that's something else, which we'll get to.

• 1:46:31AJ Gentile?

  We will.

• 1:46:32Speaker 03

  But I do want to finish up on that fast mover thing.

• 1:46:34AJ Gentile?

  Let's do it.

• 1:46:36Speaker 03

  It took me, uh, it was like two years after that trip. I had to do a job for the Joint Chiefs. I was actually building a model for the office of the President. Okay? It was an advanced model showing a concept. Uh, and that's what I can say. So, I bring it down and I deliver it to one of the chiefs. And I sat with them. And I know I shouldn't have said it now.

• 1:47:01AJ Gentile?

  Oh, no.

• 1:47:02Speaker 03

  No, come on, all right?

• 1:47:03AJ Gentile?

  Mark.

• 1:47:03Speaker 03

  You know.

• 1:47:04AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:04Speaker 03

  I shouldn't have said it. My brain was saying, "Don't say it, don't say it." But my words were already coming out because see, my mouth says things before my brain gets engaged sometimes. So what came out of my mouth was, "Sir, what can you tell me about the fast mover program?" Exactly. And I'm sitting there and I immediately, literally, physically went, "Oh."

• 1:47:22Speaker 03

  Literally covered my mouth like, "Oh, I shouldn't have said that. I shouldn't have said that." And he just looked at me and he smiled. He goes, "I can't talk about that. I'm sorry."

• 1:47:30AJ Gentile?

  Oh.

• 1:47:31Speaker 03

  "It's okay, sir. Never mind. Never mind. Never mind." And he said, "Thank you so much." He says, "Great work. We'll do follow-on stuff with you." And they did. So that didn't hurt me, luckily.

• 1:47:41AJ Gentile?

  But again, that gave you information.

• 1:47:42Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. By saying nothing, he said everything. I mean, and so when I drove home from Washington DC back to Connecticut, that's like a six-hour ride. I don't remember the drive.

• 1:47:52AJ Gentile?

  Of course.

• 1:47:52Speaker 03

  Right? Because I was only thinking, I just drove on autopilot and got back. And it wasn't like missing time.

• 1:47:58AJ Gentile?

  Nope.

• 1:47:59Speaker 03

  Okay? Because for six hours, I was ruminating about everything I was learning and all the past trip and all the stuff and all the knowledge I was thinking. It's like, "Wow. They're here. Holy cow. They're really here and they're living in the oceans."

• 1:48:12AJ Gentile?

  Do you think organizations like Arrow, ATIP are connected to the USOs? Or is there another organization tracking that?

• 1:48:19Speaker 03

  I think that the thing is, there might be. I know what Navy does. Okay? We know that for sure.

• 1:48:25AJ Gentile?

  Because we see them go from air to water and back.

• 1:48:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. Well, remember, the XO said, "Log it and dog it."

• 1:48:29AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:48:30Speaker 03

  By the way, that was decades ago. We're not talking about last week or two months ago. We're talking decades ago when that actually occurred. So they were tracking them way back then in our US Navy. Okay?

• 1:48:39AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 1:48:40Speaker 03

  Understand that. So now, you come forward now and you look at Arrow and ATIP and all these other, uh, um, uh, project, uh, activities. And you have to say, "Now, these aerial objects that people are seeing, are they also the same as the underwater objects?" And I believe they are.

• 1:48:58AJ Gentile?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:48:59Speaker 03

  Because based on, you know, going transmedium, and Darcy Ware has done a great movie on this called Transmedium. I'm not plugging, but hey, it's a great movie. Watch it, right? So, but transmedium capabilities will be automatic, depending on the technology used to move that ship around. Okay? So that said, um, they could be the same object. The, uh, the Kichikawa Maru folks saw these silver discs coming out of the ocean and flying. Well, they're transmedium right in front of you. A water to air, water to air, water to air, over and over as they see these discs come out, right? So clearly, they can do both. All right? And there's reasons why they may be able to do that, right?

• 1:49:41Speaker 03

  So, hearing from, literally, one of the people that works for the President of the United States say to me that this is something I can't talk about.

• 1:49:52Speaker 03

  To me, it's an admission that it exists, but kinda all knew that, you know, at that point, but hearing it from that level, it's just like blows your mind. Actually say, wow, I can't believe I heard this.

• 1:50:02AJ Gentile?

  So what's your take on the current disclosure narrative? Do you think we're being prepared for disclosure day? Or is it a psy-op?

• 1:50:10Speaker 03

  Well, you know, I do a lecture about, in part, why the government's actually assisting in disclosure. And one of those things is they work through Hollywood, too.

• 1:50:20AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 1:50:21Speaker 03

  Think about the show, the movie, The Day the Earth Stood Still.

• 1:50:24AJ Gentile?

  Of course.

• 1:50:24Speaker 03

  Klaatu. Klaatu, Nick Dubratau, right? Okay, great. Well, that was a, that was a message. That message was, we warn you about using powers and nuclear power. You gotta be very careful, blah, blah, blah. Okay. Then remember movies like Close Encounters of the Third Kind? Well, in there, the aliens are benevolent, but they don't have a concept of time. They return people they stole decades earlier, but to them, it's nothing. But to the people coming back, it's like, where am I?

• 1:50:51AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 1:50:52Speaker 03

  So that actually was a cool disconnect. And of course, you know, I work with Douglas Trumbull, who did the effects for that movie. Okay. I didn't work with him then. I worked with him for 10 years, but he was a, like a grandfather to me.

• 1:51:04AJ Gentile?

  Well, just as an aside.

• 1:51:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:51:06AJ Gentile?

  Douglas Trumbull has built the most famous UFOs in movie history. Was he a UFO believer?

• 1:51:11Speaker 03

  As a matter of fact, he was.

• 1:51:12AJ Gentile?

  He was?

• 1:51:13Speaker 03

  That's how we met. I did an NPR show about X-Files of Connecticut. And during the NPR interview, they said, well, you know, this, this special effects guy, Douglas Trumbull, my idol. I mean, I, I've watched Stanley Kubrick's 2001, like dozens of times. I loved that movie. I loved how Trumbull created all the...

• 1:51:36AJ Gentile?

  Everybody on the planet has seen his work.

• 1:51:37Speaker 03

  Of course.

• 1:51:38AJ Gentile?

  Everybody.

• 1:51:38Speaker 03

  Everybody, yeah. And so he said, next time I'm gonna get you on with Doug Trumbull. I went, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, that's always like, wow. So I didn't wait. I got home from that interview on NPR, and I wrote an email I found for Douglas H. Trumbull. And I wrote him, telling him everything. Half hour later, I get a one-page email back from the man himself.

• 1:52:00AJ Gentile?

  Wow.

• 1:52:01Speaker 03

  Whoa. And he says, been to your website, fxmodels.com.

• 1:52:04AJ Gentile?

  Wow.

• 1:52:05Speaker 03

  Excellent in every respect. We could use you now.

• 1:52:08AJ Gentile?

  Ah.

• 1:52:09Speaker 03

  Can you come up and meet? Like... I'm like hyperventilating at that point. I'm gonna meet the, the, this, oh my gosh.

• 1:52:17AJ Gentile?

  Blade Runner, oh my goodness.

• 1:52:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. So I meet the guy, I go up there to his, to his studio.

• 1:52:22AJ Gentile?

  His studio?

• 1:52:23Speaker 03

  Oh yeah. It's a studio out in the middle of the woods in Massachusetts. Okay? And I meet in his office. I look around his office. Oh, there's Blade Runner paraphernalia. There's the helmet from Brainstorm. You know? I mean, all these things all around, everywhere. Okay? I thought to myself, gee, wouldn't it be cool if I did some cool props and he had them on display in his office someday? You know? And that happened eventually, so.

• 1:52:51AJ Gentile?

  What did you get in his office? What'd you build?

• 1:52:53Speaker 03

  Oh, I, we worked on, um, uh, there was an Apple iPad Pro commercial for the Super Bowl.

• 1:52:58AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 1:52:58Speaker 03

  We did that commercial on site. And, uh, I was in charge of doing, uh, just one artifact, one, one effect for one small shot. And as time moved on, Doug put me into many other shots and I ended up doing 13 different, uh, pieces of that commercial. Uh, and I even brought my son in to do a particular, uh, comet crash into the Earth's atmosphere.

• 1:53:27AJ Gentile?

  Wow.

• 1:53:28Speaker 03

  Okay, and I had him build the comet and everything. Um, and he now works for the biggest TV station in Connecticut, and so he's stuck with his journalism and, and stuff, you know, and so forth. So, as a, as a point of fact, um, you know, Doug called me his chief scientist, which was hilarious. And, uh, so I would always talk, he'd always ask me, this is, he doesn't need my opinion. Okay? This guy has every right to be arrogant, has every right to just say, look, go away, you bother me. And I'd accept it because he earned that right, in my view. Okay, with all the work, his body of work. But instead, he'd say, Mark, what do you think of this? And I, I've said to him several times, and he would always yell at me, you want my opinion? He goes, I wouldn't ask you if I didn't. You know?

• 1:54:13Speaker 03

  And he'd smile. And so I gave him my opinion. And so we had a relationship where he valued what I said, and he was actually very, uh... Corroborative, he would actually.

• 1:54:24AJ Gentile?

  Well, it's super handy to have a scientist around.

• 1:54:26Speaker 03

  And collaborative.

• 1:54:27AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:27Speaker 03

  Especially with, with, with, uh, with, um, you know, space stuff and, and other types of things.

• 1:54:32AJ Gentile?

  Didn't metamaterials land on your desk when you were working with Doug?

• 1:54:35Speaker 03

  Oh, they did.

• 1:54:36AJ Gentile?

  You gotta tell us about that.

• 1:54:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, I, I held metamaterials, supposed metamaterials, yeah.

• 1:54:40AJ Gentile?

  From, from retrieval?

• 1:54:43Speaker 03

  They came, yeah, they came from some type of retrieval and, um, um, I'll be seeing one of the guys that, uh, actually had them, uh, in contact, can't remember his name, but he came from MIT, a materials lab, and he came in with the, with the receipts, with the results. And he said, okay, this piece here, and they had a, a container.

• 1:55:02AJ Gentile?

  He brought the pieces?

• 1:55:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, I, I held them in my hands. I got photos of me holding these in my hands.

• 1:55:06AJ Gentile?

  So are they lighter, are they heavy, or are they?

• 1:55:08Speaker 03

  Well, you know, to me, they look like normal pieces of industrial cutoff, you know?

• 1:55:13AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 1:55:13Speaker 03

  Well, what is that, you know, I mean, but he goes, let's study the isotopes of these.

• 1:55:18AJ Gentile?

  Oh.

• 1:55:18Speaker 03

  This honeycomb piece of material, and I recognize that, because in my shop, I have a laser cutter, and I have a honeycomb as the base underneath, so it looks like my laser cutter honeycomb. He goes, yeah, that's where the similarity ends. Look at the isotopes, and we went through the spectral analysis, and he read, read me all these settings and stuff, and it's like, well, that isotope doesn't exist.

• 1:55:39AJ Gentile?

  Doesn't exist?

• 1:55:40Speaker 03

  No, that one doesn't exist on Earth in a stable form, but yeah, it's in there now. That isotope is in this piece.

• 1:55:47AJ Gentile?

  What metals were those in there?

• 1:55:49Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 1:55:50AJ Gentile?

  Don't know?

• 1:55:51Speaker 03

  That's the thing, the metals, the metals had, uh, a combination of, of multiple different types of metals. I mean, it's weird to say this, but you know how alloys are, right?

• 1:56:01AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 1:56:01Speaker 03

  They're conglomerations. Well, this is one of those, but I don't remember the specifics. Uh, he said we could detect, uh, certain known metals, but then there's some we don't know. And this one, here, there's, there's an isotope in here that we can't produce on Earth. So we don't know why this one is in this piece that you meddled that's sitting in the palm of your hand right now. I'm like, wow.

• 1:56:23AJ Gentile?

  Isn't it true that different isotopes could be a signature of coming from a different world?

• 1:56:28Speaker 03

  Well, if they're stable on Earth, then maybe not. But if they're not stable on Earth, and you find them built into a mechanism that is produced on another world, well, then they could be stable in that thing. And even on Earth, they'll be stable because they're locked in. But you can't make them on Earth.

• 1:56:48AJ Gentile?

  Yeah, I've heard someone comment on those metamaterials that, yeah, we can do that in a thousand years with a billion dollars.

• 1:56:53Speaker 03

  Exactly. Exactly so. And that's the whole point. It still smacks of advanced technology, doesn't it?

• 1:57:01AJ Gentile?

  Why did MIT choose you guys to look into that?

• 1:57:05Speaker 03

  Because of Doug Trumbull. Doug, Doug is, he's done presentations for them in the past. And so, and let's bring this to Doug Trumbull. Because they knew he hunted UFOs.

• 1:57:15AJ Gentile?

  He definitely, he definitely worked, he definitely worked SAPs. He just didn't tell, he had clearance for sure.

• 1:57:21Speaker 03

  No, he didn't. As a matter of fact, when we were working on the U Fotog system, which was a UFO detection system, we were making some strides, and he got a call from some DOD guys. And they said, we'd like to come see what you're doing. He said, absolutely effing not.

• 1:57:38AJ Gentile?

  Wow.

• 1:57:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, you're not welcome.

• 1:57:42AJ Gentile?

  Wow, my hero.

• 1:57:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:57:44AJ Gentile?

  Go eff yourself.

• 1:57:45Speaker 03

  He did not want to be, didn't want, want them in the room. You know, he wouldn't accept them in there.

• 1:57:50AJ Gentile?

  Are you able to explain how that U Fotog works?

• 1:57:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, U Fotog, U Fotog was interesting. Because the system that Doug had developed even before I came along, okay, was that it would track objects in the sky. Now Doug, coming from a camera background, a physical practical camp background, he focused on having a system that could spin around really fast. And he had telescopes and cameras and detectors, all aimed at one spot in the sky. And he could track a jet, you know, going through the sky, and then gather information about it. You know, okay, what's the, what's it spewing? What's it doing? A spectral analysis. So, okay, what do we got? You know, what's this made of? That kind of thing. So it had that kind of capability. But we wanted to expand it more. And I said to Doug, because he had this all in a Humvee, on a hydraulic

• 1:58:37Speaker 03

  lift. Remember, he's a showman. He was a movie maker. So he wanted something to look cool and flashy.

• 1:58:41AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:42Speaker 03

  I said, Doug. How about if we do something a little different? What if we make platters which each have cameras? And make these platters have a solar panel to power them? And then just put the platters out in the desert? Have them communicate with each other? Set them up in a triad? So, all three are linked to each other? Okay? And I got that idea from War of the Worlds? Where the Martian land in triads and then they would in triangles like Right. Talk, you know, cover the entire United States. I thought, we can do the same thing as War of the Worlds. We'll put one here, one here, one here. Separate them by like two miles each. That way, if this one detects something, and then this one down here detects the same thing, we can triangulate directly. Alright?

• 1:59:26Speaker 03

  Because it means it's far enough away that this one can see it too. But if this one sees it, this doesn't, this doesn't, this is a local event. Right. And we're just gonna get the data for the one. Okay, let's do that. So, we started working on centralized servers, trying to figure out a way to get that data to go there in one place. And then, you know, Doug ended up getting sick, you know, and passed away, obviously, a few years ago, which broke all of our hearts, you know? And his wife Julia, beautiful lady, you know, very, very understanding and amazingly supportive man of that man. And man, he could be, he could be a bear sometimes when we weren't doing, we were doing a commercial for ESPN, it wasn't working out right. And it was 2:00 in the morning, and he was just getting downright tired, and he was just

• 2:00:11Speaker 03

  sinking deeper in his chair, and he says, "I don't know how we're gonna get this thing to work." And we finally did, of course, because that was Doug, you know, we always make it work. Well, so, he ended up, we ended up working, you know, to try and figure out how we're gonna get the telemetry to work. I was working on little XB transmitters, trying to figure if that will work too. And then we actually had an idea for getting the communication to go, have it making a round robin at all times. You got anything, got anything, got anything? Polling, and then extracting the data, making it available in a centralized database. Did you get it working? No, no. We didn't, unfortunately. And that's okay. That's okay. Because we put the feelers out to get other people involved too. We wanted to make sure that people could do it. Right? Now, there's other projects out there doing similar kind of things.

• 2:00:56Speaker 03

  But as I started to get further into this, I thought, these platters would be really cool. They'll be self-sufficient. And you know, all the cameras will be looking, you know, it's better to have single high pixel cameras pointing at a different plot of space with overlapping fields than to have one big giant all-sky. Because the all-sky is gonna have limited resolution. It's gonna have warpage and distortion. A singular camera wouldn't. So if we have enough cameras, we can cover the whole sky. Alright? And be able to have a high-resolution, digital zoom capability on every field. We want that we see something in. And then we could stitch those together. And we want to work on having a methodology for auto-stitching views and stuff and to recreate, say, motion.

• 2:01:41Speaker 03

  And then tie them to other units to be able to talk to each other.

• 2:01:44AJ Gentile?

  Well, this sounds like you still have ambition to build this.

• 2:01:47Speaker 03

  I sure do. I sure do.

• 2:01:49AJ Gentile?

  I hope you do.

• 2:01:50Speaker 03

  Well, there's another guy I talked to, a guy named Dave Mason. Okay? He's been on television a lot, doing some stuff, but he's also an inventor. Okay? And David and I, whenever we get on the phone, three hours passes and we don't even realize it because we're talking about things to do. So, I would definitely team up with Dave and he would team up with me, I'm sure, and we would actually make this happen. Because I know, we can solve a lot of these problems. There's ranches out west that people say, and this is all happening, there's TV shows about it, you know. Okay? I think we can solve those. Okay? Because, in the networks view, they don't ever want them solved. Because if you solve them, the show's over.

• 2:02:30AJ Gentile?

  That's right.

• 2:02:31Speaker 03

  And the profits go right down the tube. So, we don't want that solved. Make sure you always have questions, so you can have a next season. So, there's a vested interest in not figuring it out. But we're science guys.

• 2:02:43AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:43Speaker 03

  We'll figure it out and blow it wide open. Now, yeah, we'll get a lot of people mad at us. Can't launch rockets anymore, oh well.

• 2:02:50AJ Gentile?

  Oh well.

• 2:02:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, so what? Too bad.

• 2:02:53AJ Gentile?

  So, to set up our next break. I've heard a lot of different theories on UFO propulsion. Yours is my favorite, because it's not propulsion at all.

• 2:03:02Speaker 03

  It isn't.

• 2:03:03AJ Gentile?

  Alright, so we'll talk about that in just a minute.

• 2:03:04Speaker 03

  Oh, wow.

• 2:03:06AJ Gentile?

  What percentage of photos of UFOs that come across your desk can be explained?

• 2:03:13Speaker 03

  About 99.5 or 6%.

• 2:03:16AJ Gentile?

  What is it usually?

• 2:03:18Speaker 03

  Well, a lot of people photograph airplanes, birds, dust motes that are captured in a flash. They call them orbs, right? I mean, but not all of any of those things are planes, dust motes, you know, or whatever. They could be actual things. So we have to carefully examine these to see if we can determine what the conditions were that may have led to them mistaking something ordinary as extraordinary. Because I always say, many times people capture ordinary things in an extraordinary way.

• 2:03:55AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:03:55Speaker 03

  And that's because of the way cameras operate, right? They do this for us. Cell phones, cell phones don't just take a picture. That's not how they work. They're actually stacking all the time. They're actually taking multiple pictures and stacking them together to get the final result.

• 2:04:14Speaker 00

  In deepest jungle, Cartier's panther spies a wandering bird that circles the skies. A lovebird, lost and missing his mate, is far from his pass in lonely state. Dry your tears, now there's a start. Follow my steps to heal your heart. Panther stalks through the leaves with silent grace. Through the power of scent, she finds the trace. Behold, two lovers reunite in the skies. A most precious thrill sparkling in their eyes. Together forever, they shine each day, bound by the beauty of Cartier.

• 2:04:58Speaker 03

  Okay, and so that can introduce its own set of artifacts into images. So it's a, it's a pretty, uh, pretty extensive science, you know? And it's hard to know what people actually took a picture of, what they thought they saw. Because you ask 10 people what they saw in the sky, looking at the same event, you get 10 different ideas, right? I proved that when we were training people out in the Sonoran Desert, um, at a boot camp that was like a three-day boot camp out there. And I affixed a very, very bright light to one of my drones. And I flew it up in the air, turned on the light, and started flying it toward people away, left and right, until they noticed.

• 2:05:43Speaker 03

  And I was on the other side of the building from where they were, and I heard them all saying, "Look at that, what is that? I don't know, I think that's a Navy jet. No, no, no, it's something bigger, okay? Maybe it's a triangle, I'm not sure. It's moving fast, it's gotta be moving hundreds of miles an hour." I listened to all this stuff.

• 2:06:02AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 2:06:02Speaker 03

  I'm chuckling because I'm thinking, "They're demonstrating everything that happens with people. They all see a singular event a different way." And that's okay, but they have to really try to isolate what it is they're seeing in the sky, right? So, uh, when I look at an object in the sky, there's only so many things it can be, right? Well, that's either a star, or it's a satellite. If it's moving, it might be a satellite. It could be a high-altitude aircraft, where you don't actually see the FAA lights, you know?

• 2:06:35AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 2:06:36Speaker 03

  From that altitude. Uh, it could be a black project. I mean, it could be something like that, true. We've seen some of those probably.

• 2:06:43AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 2:06:43Speaker 03

  Okay, and not even known it, okay? Stealth fighter was a black project for a while. B2 was a stealth, the stealth bomber was a black project for a while.

• 2:06:51AJ Gentile?

  We see weird stuff here over at Vegas all the time.

• 2:06:54Speaker 03

  You know, and that's just not the Elvis impersonation.

• 2:06:57AJ Gentile?

  No.

• 2:06:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly.

• 2:06:59AJ Gentile?

  Have you ever had a sighting yourself? Like an in-person sighting?

• 2:07:02Speaker 03

  Well, the, uh, in-person event I had was, uh, strange. I, I had, uh... Okay, first of all, with our remote telescopes, with our SkyTurf livestream telescope out in the Sonoran, I have an all-sky camera. Very high-end, I built it, you know, myself, make sure it captures everything really nicely. And I caught something flying through the sky on that all-sky over the course of the night, and it did a time lapse. And every single line of it corresponded to like fifteen seconds. So for fifteen seconds, it was going here, then fifteen more seconds was going there, then it was going here and here. It literally went "mmmm." But it was a faint light.

• 2:07:44AJ Gentile?

  Do you have that footage that we can show when we cut this together?

• 2:07:47Speaker 03

  I indeed will.

• 2:07:48AJ Gentile?

  Okay, great.

• 2:07:49Speaker 03

  I will send it to you. You'll see the actual photograph of this thing moving through the sky.

• 2:07:52AJ Gentile?

  Yeah, so if you're just listening, Mark is indicating what? It goes across the sky and then upwards?

• 2:07:58Speaker 03

  It veered off on like a forty-degree angle, and I've never seen anything do that before. That was weird. I've seen airplanes turn, that's fine, but they have FAA mandated lighting on them, don't they? And you can register and recognize what you're looking at, okay? But wait, Mark, what about a black project? Could have been a black project. Could have been one of ours. But to fly in a configuration where you don't have lights, that is only used in wartime in battle zones. It's not used over the continental United States, because ATC needs to know what's up there.

• 2:08:33AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:08:34Speaker 03

  You know? So it is kind of interesting that this happened. The second thing that I saw, again, another all-sky image, was this little tight circle way up in the sky, right? Very, very tiny circle, sort of faint. But it was a perfect circle. It was over across two frames, right, that were each twelve seconds long. Okay, so over twenty-four seconds, this thing made a complete circle in the sky.

• 2:08:59AJ Gentile?

  How high up do you think?

• 2:09:00Speaker 03

  Hard to tell, it's a single-point vantage point, right? But it was high enough so that if it was any kind of light that was on a vessel or a craft or a plane, you would recognize the relative brightness. You know when something has a brightness of a certain amount, it's kind of certain altitude, you can kind of guess.

• 2:09:20AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 2:09:21Speaker 03

  Right? But in this case, this object was a sort of a dim brightness, and it was, it curled around in one image, it curled half the circle, in the second image, it went the rest of the circle. Same brightness. So I thought, well, is that a, maybe a fighter from Luke Air Force Base? Because it's nearby. But if it was a fighter, you might say, well, maybe it's a F-18 Hornet. Or maybe it's a, say, an F-16 or something. Okay? And they have a jet nozzle, one, a singular jet nozzle. In F-18, they might blend one this scene from the ground. Okay, if it's high enough. And you'd see it as it was going away from you. But what about the other half, what's coming toward you? There's no nozzle there.

• 2:10:04AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:10:05Speaker 03

  So that one perplexed me. So those two things I saw were very, very perplexing. Now, we've seen, like, a reentry of a Chinese rocket. We've seen that. We've seen Starlink launches and Falcon 9s. That's all cool. I've seen them live. I've seen them.

• 2:10:19AJ Gentile?

  They're cool, but you know what they are now.

• 2:10:21Speaker 03

  We know what they are now.

• 2:10:22AJ Gentile?

  Have you ever seen a good hoax? I mean, it's so hard to hoax a VFX artist who's an astronomer who's been doing this since he's nine.

• 2:10:29Speaker 03

  That's a tough call to try and hoax the art, art photo analysis team, right? Right. For sure. I tend to see a lot of things.

• 2:10:37AJ Gentile?

  But they try, don't they?

• 2:10:38Speaker 03

  They always do.

• 2:10:39AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:10:39Speaker 03

  Like, I'll give you an example. There was a hoax known as the Dome of the Rock hoax.

• 2:10:46AJ Gentile?

  That's one of my favorites.

• 2:10:47Speaker 03

  I bet it is.

• 2:10:48AJ Gentile?

  A few different angles. Yeah, go ahead. I love it.

• 2:10:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, that few different angles was really important to me. Okay, but that's what undid it.

• 2:10:54AJ Gentile?

  Was it?

• 2:10:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 2:10:56AJ Gentile?

  Okay, tell, tell the story, because everybody knows, knows that sighting.

• 2:11:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, I figured that's, that's why I brought it up, because it's pretty, it's pretty popular. The Jerusalem Old City Dome of the Rock footage, when I got it, it was like, wow, you're hearing people talk about it. Right? But you're hearing people milling about, and you're not really hearing a specific comment about that thing other than maybe just an exclamation. And then it does a little, it looks like it's rotating, and then, boop, it takes off really fast. Okay, that's the thing. But when it takes off, it flashes the whole city.

• 2:11:28AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 2:11:28Speaker 03

  Okay, momentarily. However, there's other images of that. And in the other images, the other videos of this, you see a close-up, say, of this UFO. And it looks like it's spinning and it has lights on it and stuff. You do a comparison between that and the other video, they're totally different. So, what we saw in this close-up is not what was in this distant shot, okay? Because you can tell, when something's flashing, the bottom light should be going like, "No, brighter and dimmer, brighter and dimmer." At that frequency, it wasn't. So that was wrong.

• 2:12:07AJ Gentile?

  Hmm.

• 2:12:08Speaker 03

  So then, am I disappointing you?

• 2:12:10AJ Gentile?

  Yeah, you are.

• 2:12:10Speaker 03

  I'm sorry.

• 2:12:11AJ Gentile?

  I mean, I knew it was fake, but I love it so.

• 2:12:14Speaker 03

  It is really interesting.

• 2:12:15AJ Gentile?

  It's a fun, it's fun.

• 2:12:16Speaker 03

  In that part of the city, the city never sleeps. There's always people out.

• 2:12:20AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 2:12:21Speaker 03

  Why wasn't it reported by anybody else? Why was there only like, three people reporting it? And it just happened to be the people that filmed it?

• 2:12:29AJ Gentile?

  Right, just showed up.

• 2:12:30Speaker 03

  Okay? And they were at this vantage point, and then somebody was down filming it from below, they saw it, okay, supposedly. What do you think the chances are that all three of those people knew each other? Chances are pretty high.

• 2:12:41AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:42Speaker 03

  In fact, they did. They were all in a film class.

• 2:12:45AJ Gentile?

  Oh, no!

• 2:12:46Speaker 03

  Yes, they were. And the guy that was, that was the teacher, is the one that basically accepted them doing this little project to fake this, okay? "Hey, you know what? It's kinda cool, because one of the first things you do when you're doing compositions, in compositing, is you'll use something simple, like a flashing light. Because that way you don't have ships to worry about, and shading and shadows. That's a problem, you know? Um, having been in the 3D world, I was a 3D, done 3D animation for television and for myself for decades. So, I'm familiar with how people fake stuff. And when I watched this footage, I thought, "There's something wrong here, and I'm gonna figure out what it is." And when I watched the three different versions of this thing... Every one of them was different.

• 2:13:31AJ Gentile?

  Hmm.

• 2:13:32Speaker 03

  In ways that made it a fatality in terms of being an actual event. And then we found out that there was a Israeli reporter, I believe, that actually made the break, uh, um, breaking news that these were a film class project that was done. And that was like, wow, that's, that's, now I get it, you know?

• 2:13:52AJ Gentile?

  Can you break my heart one more time?

• 2:13:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, which, which one?

• 2:13:55AJ Gentile?

  Um, it's, it's a sighting that's happened many times over Turkey where in some of the frames, it looks like there's two pilots in the craft.

• 2:14:03Speaker 03

  I've seen that. I've seen that. I analyzed that one too. And one of the, one of the issues I had with that one was that

• 2:14:13Speaker 03

  the reflection we're looking at is something that's, it's a curved reflection.

• 2:14:18AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 2:14:19Speaker 03

  Okay, that's what I'm looking at, a curved shape, right? So you're saying, oh, well, the ship is like, you know, it's got a little like a delta wing. Maybe it's like out of Stargate or something, right? With that little curve to it.

• 2:14:28AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 2:14:28Speaker 03

  And then you see those two things sticking up. Well, that one, it, people said, look, if you zoom in, fatal words, if you zoom in, you can see aliens. No, if you zoom into anything, you see pixelation and then your brain makes it into something that you want it to be, okay? Like bunnies in the clouds, oh, it's a bunny. No, it's not. It's, it's Satan, you know, whatever.

• 2:14:50AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:14:51Speaker 03

  You know, you can make whatever you want because your brain manufactures it. That, that the pareidolia takes over at that, at that level.

• 2:14:57AJ Gentile?

  They hate, they hate the P word.

• 2:14:58Speaker 03

  They do, they do. It's the P word. That's right.

• 2:15:02AJ Gentile?

  So.

• 2:15:03Speaker 03

  But, but, but that one.

• 2:15:04AJ Gentile?

  That one.

• 2:15:05Speaker 03

  Let's, let's talk about that one. Now, that one, it looks like, um, right now, and I haven't gotten any more data on this, to be honest, so we'll let it rest as a potential unknown. Okay, so we'll break your heart entirely.

• 2:15:17AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 2:15:17Speaker 03

  Okay. It looks like a potential lens reflection at the edge. Okay, that we're looking at there.

• 2:15:23AJ Gentile?

  I know exactly what you mean.

• 2:15:25Speaker 03

  You do, don't you?

• 2:15:25AJ Gentile?

  I do.

• 2:15:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, you kind of got cameras all around, you kind of know. Right? You get some kind of weird reflections, especially when you have bright lights on the water. And in this particular case, there were bright lights on the water. You know, there was a distant ship. Uh, and that distant ship at sea could have caused an edge reflection in the barrel of the camera. And, um, and I leave it at that because it could have been that. You know, was it that? I can't say for sure, and that's the mystery, isn't it?

• 2:15:53AJ Gentile?

  Are there any that you haven't solved that you're like, this, this is the real deal? That 0.5%?

• 2:16:00Speaker 03

  You know, the, the two I caught in the all sky cam, yes, they're mine, but still.

• 2:16:04AJ Gentile?

  Those are points of light.

• 2:16:05Speaker 03

  They're points of light.

• 2:16:06AJ Gentile?

  Any craft, shapes?

• 2:16:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, I haven't seen any that I could be, say are convincing. And I'll tell you, I know, I'm sorry, but I'll tell you this.

• 2:16:16AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 2:16:16Speaker 03

  Remember the Belgian triangle?

• 2:16:17AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 2:16:18Speaker 03

  Okay. The photograph of the Belgian triangle? Well, that was, found out to be a model. Okay. And it was a styrofoam model with lights on it. And that's why it was so blurry because they couldn't, you know.

• 2:16:28AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:16:29Speaker 03

  But they used that as a potential for being the, uh, the Belgian triangle. And they ended up becoming the, the, the standard image of the Belgian triangle. A hoax image was created as a, a, and, and said it was a standard triangle. But I'll tell you this. My sister, who doesn't believe in this stuff, her name is Beth, called me at two in the morning one day. And said, Mark, there's something outside my window. Whoa, is it a person? No, it's a craft over my house. I don't know what to do. She doesn't believe in UFOs, never has. Very practical person. Okay. I said, describe this thing to me. I didn't say, is it a triangle? I said, describe it to me. Well, it looks like a triangular shape.

• 2:17:11Speaker 03

  It's really dark, but at the ends where, at the ends of the endpoints, there's like these red lights. Really? How big are the lights? Well, they're about, she, she, she tried to say that they're, they're like balls sticking up in the four, in the three corners. Okay. I said, is there anything in the middle at all? No, I, I, I don't see anything in the middle, but it's moving slowly across the yard. It, it's pretty high in the air and I heard this humming sound. I don't know where it's coming from. And I opened the window and I hear it's coming from up above my house. Now, my sister is not a hoaxer. My sister is practical. And this was, I'm listening to a shaking voice and she was panicky. I said, all right, calm down. It's not going to hurt you. All right, is it moving away? It's moving toward the trees at the end of the yard and it's going to go over.

• 2:17:56Speaker 03

  And it's going to end up in, in, in the rest of Plainville, Connecticut. She said, but I can't really tell. I go, why? Because all the power's out.

• 2:18:05Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, plane bill's out. All the lights are out. All we see, all I'm seeing is this thing in the sky. Wow. So is the power outage related to this thing in the sky? Maybe. But a power outage isn't going to wake someone up out of a sound sleep.

• 2:18:19AJ Gentile?

  No.

• 2:18:20Speaker 03

  Either, you know? So what was that? So she witnessed something that I wished I could have seen. Okay. And, you know, I thought that was a really, really interesting observation.

• 2:18:34AJ Gentile?

  I'm glad that you said that. I thought you were going to tell me it was a drone.

• 2:18:37Speaker 03

  But no.

• 2:18:38AJ Gentile?

  But we don't know.

• 2:18:39Speaker 03

  It's something we don't know. And, and again, she's, she can observe, obviously. She's very good at it. But she's not someone that can say exactly what she's looking at. Right? Either. So she left it to me. But by describing it, she literally was describing a triangular craft that had lights at the three vertices, you know, and they were red, a dull red. But she said they were weird looking. The lights were kind of weird, hard to look at, but not too bright.

• 2:19:08AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:09Speaker 03

  And I've heard that before.

• 2:19:10AJ Gentile?

  I have too.

• 2:19:11Speaker 03

  And she's not, she hasn't into that, any of that.

• 2:19:15AJ Gentile?

  I've heard sometimes the, the lights seem to be moving within the shape, but.

• 2:19:19Speaker 03

  Yeah. And they're hard to look at because they're, they're weird. It's a weird type of light that the eye can't really.

• 2:19:25AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:19:26Speaker 03

  Figure out. And that might be, perhaps, part of the propulsion or whatever we're looking at. Who knows?

• 2:19:33AJ Gentile?

  So, so last one. Phoenix lights.

• 2:19:36Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:19:38AJ Gentile?

  Flares, or why is it seen across the whole southwest all night? What, what happened?

• 2:19:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's the, you said, the last part you said is very important.

• 2:19:46AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 2:19:47Speaker 03

  Seen across the southwest, all across the southwest. The phoenix lights were not the flare drop exercise that is so often shown. That was an actual flare drop over the Australians. Been there, I've been in the Austras, looking at that site, okay? Those were flares, parachute flares. But they're not the Phoenix Lights. There is no actual imagery or video of the actual Phoenix Lights. So what we see are, those are the flares? Those are the flares, that thing that's popular from 1994, whatever it was. That, that's the actual flare drop that occurred, but that's not the phenomenon that occurred all across Arizona. Nobody captured it? No, it was like, as far as I know, if there's stuff out there, I haven't seen it. You know, none of us have, you know, as far as I know.

• 2:20:30Speaker 03

  But that was not the flare exercise, I mean, that was not the object, that was actually the flare exercise. You know, and the thing about parachute flares is the first one that comes out is the first one to go out. Right, so they drop, and the lowest one is the one that has dropped the furthest, meaning it was first out, so it goes out first, then this one, then this one. Well, those are parachute flares. Right. Because their lifetime is, you know, based on, you know, how long they burn. The first one out's gonna burn, you know, for, say, 12 minutes, or 8 minutes, and then it goes out. But it's gonna fall the furthest, as well. And then the second one will be a little higher, and that's what we saw, it was sort of in a weird line. But the news grabbed on to that flare drop and said, "This is the, this is the Phoenix Lights." But everybody was saying, "That's a flare drop." And they were right.

• 2:21:15Speaker 03

  And it was not, unfortunately, it doesn't discount that the Phoenix Lights actually occurred. What it says is, you accurately said that this is a flare drop, and it was. What you didn't say, though, was that people all across Arizona saw this boomerang of lights moving through the sky silently. And, I'm sorry, but when, when you look at something like that, and you get cases like that, people who don't even know each other, reporting the same thing across a path, that you can then extrapolate...

• 2:21:52Speaker 03

  That means something.

• 2:21:53AJ Gentile?

  You just said early in the break, that's how your analysts work. You separate them.

• 2:21:57Speaker 03

  I do. I do. I separate the analysts and I have them do all the work separately. And then we combine our research at the end to come to a common consensus only after we've done all of our own diligence. I think that's the way to do it.

• 2:22:10AJ Gentile?

  I agree.

• 2:22:10Speaker 03

  You know? So when you have all these separate people around Arizona reporting a certain thing, kind of all the same way, all right? That means something.

• 2:22:20AJ Gentile?

  I agree. My gut tells me it's something, but my gut isn't good enough. I like to, I like data.

• 2:22:25Speaker 03

  Me too. I'm a data guy and sometimes the data doesn't tell us everything we need to know or everything, doesn't tell us exactly what's happening. We don't know. No? So Phoenix Lights is a bit of a mystery. You know, we don't know what it is, but could we figure it out someday? If it occurs again? Ta-da, right? We can do it.

• 2:22:47AJ Gentile?

  Why are most UFOs round?

• 2:22:52Speaker 03

  You know the answer. But you're leading me on. I know you. Okay.

• 2:22:56AJ Gentile?

  So this is your propulsion, your theory, which I love.

• 2:23:01Speaker 03

  It's not my theory. It's actually a theory of a good friend of mine, Robert Schroeder, who wrote a book called Solving the UFO Enigma. I think it's out of print. Okay? But he covers in there that if we consider advanced physics and string theory, that we'll be able to take advantage of multiple dimensions. You know, Avi Loeb even mentioned that he thinks maybe they travel interdimensionally as well. I don't know if he mentioned it when he was with you.

• 2:23:26AJ Gentile?

  He did.

• 2:23:27Speaker 03

  Okay. So the actual definition, I'm sure he couldn't talk about because we don't really have a full definition of how that would work. But we do have a concept. And the concept is absolutely thrilling. Okay? Because this is something that, well, this is something that got me a real cowboy hat. Now, wait, what? Okay? I was presenting in Texas at a big conference and I told people this process. I said, this is probably the only way it can actually work. And I explained how this interdimensional travel possibility can work and we're going to get to that. And there's a guy in the front row, cowboy hat and boots.

• 2:24:11Speaker 03

  After the lecture, he walked up to me and he said, "I gotta tell you that everything you said, that just, that closed all the loops, man. That's exactly how they work. It's gotta be because everything you said is reflective of everything people have seen." He says, "You know, I want you to have this." And he took his hat off his head and put it on mine. I'm like, "Uh, that's your cowboy hat, man. You don't give up your boots, your horse, or your hat."

• 2:24:37AJ Gentile?

  That's right.

• 2:24:37Speaker 03

  Okay. He goes, "Well, this hat belongs to you, my friend."

• 2:24:40AJ Gentile?

  Alright.

• 2:24:41Speaker 03

  I shook his hand and took it up. It's on, it's on, uh, in my office at home.

• 2:24:45AJ Gentile?

  That's a big deal.

• 2:24:46Speaker 03

  Alright, so, why was it so impressive? Why, why does it resonate? The reason it resonates is because it answers the age-old question. If the universe is so big and so vast, how can they possibly be here?

• 2:24:56AJ Gentile?

  That's my hang-up, is the distance traveling.

• 2:24:59Speaker 03

  Not me. Not anymore. Ready?

• 2:25:02AJ Gentile?

  I'm ready.

• 2:25:03Speaker 03

  Okay. So, consider this. Everything we've ever done is in four dimensions. X, Y, Z, moving through time. Time's a dimension. Here's my hand over here, on the left, at a certain X, Y, Z coordinate at a particular point in time. One second later, it's at a new X, Y, Z coordinate at a different time.

• 2:25:19AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 2:25:20Speaker 03

  To get here, I move through every point between that first point and this last point.

• 2:25:25Speaker 04

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• 2:25:56Speaker 03

  Okay. So, motion takes us through specific X, Y, Z points all throughout time, right? Voyager, thirty years to get out of our solar system, traveling linearly from Earth all the way out. And every point between here and Voyager was crossed by Voyager, okay?

• 2:26:15AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 2:26:15Speaker 03

  So, wormholes, Einstein, Rosen bridges.

• 2:26:19AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 2:26:19Speaker 03

  All in the four dimensions. They are not something outside of our, our time. And when we get into this, people say, "Well, what about time travel? It's all about time travel." No, it's not. No, it doesn't have to have time travel involved, because I believe time is linear. I don't believe we can go back in time and get rid of Hitler. Okay, I don't believe we can do that.

• 2:26:40AJ Gentile?

  Block universe theory? You don't subscribe to that?

• 2:26:43Speaker 03

  Not really. I mean, I think that, um, I think that one of my issues is that if we look at the way the universe is constructed, um, we're looking at it from the point of view of understanding four dimensions. No other dimensions, no other realities, no other possible, you know, no other, nothing else possible. Um, I had an occurrence in my shop that bordered on interdimensional, possibly.

• 2:27:14AJ Gentile?

  What?

• 2:27:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, this is something where I was working on a prop for a movie Doug Trumbull and I were doing. And I was working on this prop, really excited, it was 3:30 in the afternoon. Okay, in fact, I was trying to finish this thing up to show Doug, because I was really excited about this thing. I plumbed it for liquid nitrogen, we're gonna have liquid nitrogen spewing out of this thing. It was an EMP's, uh, you know, device. And so, uh, as I'm working on it, I see this semi-transparent creature walk into my, my special effects shop, and I'm gobbling my eyes, looking, "What is that?" You know, it looks sort of like water without the shine, kind of a glowy, not glowy, but sort of like undulating mass of something. And I'm, I'm taking off my glasses, I'm looking at it going, "Is that real?"

• 2:27:59Speaker 03

  And I, I'm looking at it and thinking, "That looks real." So I walk over to it, and as it starts moving, it's making rhythmic motions like a dog looking itself.

• 2:28:10AJ Gentile?

  What?

• 2:28:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, no kidding, it's weird, okay? Now, you have to understand, this is on the heels of seeing people that weren't there in my house, and also hearing voices of people talking that weren't there.

• 2:28:23AJ Gentile?

  Didn't you leave that house?

• 2:28:25Speaker 03

  This is my new house, okay?

• 2:28:28AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 2:28:29Speaker 03

  So, now, the other problem I have is that about 35 years ago, I had brain surgery. You know, I'm not an easy case, man, what can I tell you? I had to put one in. So what happened was, they operated and I thought maybe this was part of the latent injury manifesting thirty-five years later, thirty years later, whatever.

• 2:28:52AJ Gentile?

  Did you say, "Hey Doug, do you see this?"

• 2:28:54Speaker 03

  No, he wasn't in the shop. I was in my own shop. Building it to bring up to Doug.

• 2:28:59AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:28:59Speaker 03

  Okay. Or I was like, "Doug, what is this?" I absolutely said it, you know? So, um, so I'd been previously seeing people that weren't there, thinking it was just my brain is replaying images it saw in the past. I saw a lady in a dress, which scared me because I turned around brushing my teeth and there she was, like, oh. And I dropped my toothbrush on the tile and that loud clack made her, whoop, she was gone. You know, I was like, "What is that?" Now, other people would say, "You're seeing ghosts." Okay, maybe. Okay. But then, um, I saw a guy walk by my door in a sport jacket. Now, I couldn't really see him. I saw the cut. Because it was sort of like a grayish semi-transparent thing walking by.

• 2:29:42Speaker 03

  But it walked like a person and it had squared off shoulders. It looked like a guy with a sport coat on. And like, "Man, I don't remember seeing that." You know, I literally was saying, "Well, I don't remember seeing that in the past, but I must have."

• 2:29:52AJ Gentile?

  Same house with the woman?

• 2:29:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:29:55AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 2:29:55Speaker 03

  Okay. And so, um, then I would hear people talking. And they're not saying, you know, "Go kill your family," nothing stupid like that. What it was saying was, "You're gonna go?" "Yeah, I'll be there. I'm gonna go there." "Who are you gonna go with?" "Yeah, I'm gonna be there, but you see it at nine o'clock." I mean, just like random talk like you hear in a crowded room.

• 2:30:12AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:30:13Speaker 03

  You know, so much so, that I went to the doctor and I had to start taking a drug to focus because I couldn't get focused because I kept hearing people talking everywhere around me. It got so bad that one time I was watching or working on my computer and my kids were banging around on the floor above. Like, "Oh, what are they doing up there?" Bang, bang, you know, I hear them yelling, and I'm thinking, "Their mother's asleep." I run upstairs, empty, dark. I run upstairs, the second floor, sound asleep in their beds. So what I-

• 2:30:46AJ Gentile?

  As a scientist, you know this sounds like schizophrenia.

• 2:30:48Speaker 03

  It does, as a matter of fact. However, it wasn't, I wasn't becoming somebody different.

• 2:30:55AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:30:55Speaker 03

  I was just hearing things that weren't there. And so, I actually wore a brain monitor. I went to a neurologist. I had them at the Air Neurological Institute, put a brain monitor on me. I had a thing to press whenever I saw and heard these things. I did, okay? Now, this thing that happened, alright, is something that, um, you know, I'd see an object, I'd press the button, okay? I see something, press the button, see something, press the button. They looked at the data, "Yeah, nothing there, your brain looks perfectly fine." Okay. Now, cue the dog. The dog walks in, curls up, it looked like a Pekingese, one of those little yap yap dogs, right? If you have a yap yap dog, I'm sorry. But, it comes in, it's curled up, and it looks like it's licking itself, right?

• 2:31:40Speaker 03

  Now, I'm, I'm a stable guy, I don't have weird crap going on like this, okay? So, what do you do? You know, where does science go in the basic, the unexplained? I keep saying that, it's like a mantra, but that's what I say. So this thing curls up on the floor, and I walk over to it. What happened next changed everything, because I stepped on it with my left foot, and it felt me step on it, and it got up and ran out of my shop, but took my foot with it.

• 2:32:07AJ Gentile?

  What?

• 2:32:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:32:09AJ Gentile?

  How does that work?

• 2:32:10Speaker 03

  I don't know! But it felt, know what it felt like? I can tell you what it felt like. If you wrap a bungee cord around the base of your ankle, or base of your foot, okay? And you, you start the tension and you have someone run away with it, there's only so much ability for your leg to keep putting pressure to keep you on the ground, then it's gonna fly off from under you and go flying, and you're gonna fly up. That happened to me. My left leg flew out, I saw my left foot briefly in the sky, I heard, I felt this tremendous pain in my left knee, it's hyperextended, then I saw my right knee coming up with my right foot, and the next thing you know, I'm falling, and I hit my right shoulder on my workbench, my left shoulder on the concrete floor, and my head on the concrete floor.

• 2:32:49AJ Gentile?

  When was, when was this, Mark?

• 2:32:51Speaker 03

  This was, oh gosh, in, in my, uh, visual effects shop, uh, this was, trying to remember when we did that movie. Maybe.

• 2:33:02AJ Gentile?

  Trying to get a sense of what was going on.

• 2:33:03Speaker 03

  I know, I'm thinking like, maybe it was around 2000 and 2011, 2012, maybe? You know, I had to think about that, you know, I don't remember directly. And then, so now I'm on the floor hurting and I get up, I'm in serious pain, my leg's killing me, my head is bleeding over here, my shoulder, I can't even move my arm.

• 2:33:29AJ Gentile?

  But aren't you going, "What the hell was that?"

• 2:33:31Speaker 03

  I'm getting up going, "Wow, what the hell was, this is crazy." And I actually say the words, "Did you see that?" And I'm like, "What an idiot, there's nobody here." What am I saying? And I was like blown away. Cause now, I'm thinking, "Well, this is one of two things. We hear of ghosts interacting with people and hurting them and whatever. But I don't believe they can actually hurt you, I think they can make you hurt yourself, okay?

• 2:33:55AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 2:33:56Speaker 03

  But you're not gonna make me hyperextend my knee, okay? Or, and I coined the term for this, maybe it's a parallel universe intersection. Ah. And this is a parallel universe creature that just is pushing into our universe because of the concurrent, or sorry, say coincident spheres of universe poking and prodding, they're always moving, maybe, in these certain different ideas about parallel universes, maybe it's poking and prodding, where you see a little piece come through.

• 2:34:24AJ Gentile?

  Philip K. Dick believed this.

• 2:34:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, and if you're there, you see it.

• 2:34:27AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 2:34:27Speaker 03

  And then it goes away and it's gone. Right? And if your house is at a potential location where that kind of thing can happen, maybe you see more of those things than other people do, I don't know.

• 2:34:36AJ Gentile?

  So time travel, no, multiverse, yes, that's where you are?

• 2:34:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:34:40AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 2:34:40Speaker 03

  Yeah. And I think that's very possible, I mean, and I called it a parallel universe intersection, a PUI. You know, and I find a lot of other people using the term now, which is cool because I do think we need to research this.

• 2:34:53AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 2:34:53Speaker 03

  I'm not saying it's actual, I'm not saying it's real. I'm not saying that what happened to me isn't some strange confluence of crazy, I don't even know what the word to put for that.

• 2:35:03AJ Gentile?

  Until we know why the wave function collapses, I think everything's on the table. It's all there.

• 2:35:08Speaker 03

  And you're absolutely right, you know, and so until, until we know what's really going on in the quantum world, we're not gonna find out what this stuff all means. So, um, this also gave me another revelation, and that was, maybe people that see ghosts and people that think there's parallel universes. Maybe they're, they work together. Maybe they can, you know, two things can be right at once. And maybe there are ghosts. And maybe there are multi-dimensional beings seen across universes. And maybe they just appear in our four-dimensional universe in the same way. So, maybe they both exist. So I can see Aunt Mabel, okay, and it's really Aunt Mabel.

• 2:35:53AJ Gentile?

  It's really her.

• 2:35:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, could potentially be. And, but maybe I'm seeing a lady in a long dress who I don't even know who she is, and she's a parallel universe interloper, who's just as surprised to see me as I am to see her.

• 2:36:08AJ Gentile?

  Right, that's what's interesting, is these worlds collide, but they're aware of each other. It's not like you're just observing.

• 2:36:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. Think about that. Stepping on this thing and having it yank my leg off from under me, that constitutes rudimentary communication across some gulf.

• 2:36:21AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 2:36:22Speaker 03

  And that's, what is that gulf? Parallel universe? I don't know. The ghostly realm? Maybe. See, our terms are not, our terms are not sufficient to describe what's actually happening here. So, and I've said this before, today's paranormal could be, could be tomorrow's science. We don't know.

• 2:36:40AJ Gentile?

  We don't know.

• 2:36:41Speaker 03

  We don't know, but today's paranormal could be tomorrow's science. And maybe this is an example of that happening, I don't know. Think about that, isn't that crazy?

• 2:36:49AJ Gentile?

  It is, I didn't, I didn't expect this story.

• 2:36:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, I'm, I'm not crazy, okay?

• 2:36:54AJ Gentile?

  I know that.

• 2:36:55Speaker 03

  I'm, I'm very firmly grounded, okay? But when things happen, I'm open-minded enough to say, we should explore this. And I think this is one of the things we should explore.

• 2:37:05AJ Gentile?

  So let's see if we can explain how that fifth dimension would work.

• 2:37:10Speaker 03

  Okay, let's talk about, in terms of propulsion. And, and when I say this, it's gonna sound crazy until I explain. UFOs don't need engines, in my view. They don't need them. They just need the ability to translate from one dimension to another. How do they do that? Well, we have to go down to the fundamental forces to see that. We have a strong force, a weak force, electromagnetism and gravity, right?

• 2:37:35AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:37:36Speaker 03

  And gravity's the weirdo.

• 2:37:37AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 2:37:38Speaker 03

  Right?

• 2:37:38AJ Gentile?

  Physics, physicists hate that one.

• 2:37:40Speaker 03

  That's right, they do. And the reason is because the other forces we can define as function, as a wave function, we can describe them with an equation.

• 2:37:48AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 2:37:48Speaker 03

  Or as a particle. Their duality, right? Light is a photon, it's a wave. Okay? An electron is a wave, okay? And it's a particle, right? We can define it as a probability equation, right?

• 2:37:59AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 2:37:59Speaker 03

  Or as a particle. That happens with all the quantum particles. Except gravity.

• 2:38:05AJ Gentile?

  Which is 10 to the what, 30 second power weaker than electromagnetism?

• 2:38:10Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:38:10AJ Gentile?

  And nobody knows why.

• 2:38:11Speaker 03

  And nobody knows why.

• 2:38:12AJ Gentile?

  The hierarchy problem.

• 2:38:13Speaker 03

  That's right. And so, exactly. And why is it, why is, yeah, exactly. Why is that even, why is that hierarchy problem even there? We don't know. But, we have a clue.

• 2:38:21AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:38:22Speaker 03

  We have a clue. And that clue is because you're not seeing all of it. Okay? Why is, why is it we're not seeing all of it? Because we're in four dimensions. What if there's more? What if there's another dimension? What if there's a fifth dimension? Well, how do we even, what's that mean? What does a fifth dimension mean? Okay? Well, we have to change our physics to understand that. Because as I said before, everything we have done is in four dimensions. We've gone in four dimensions to go everywhere we've ever done. Everything is four dimensions. As such, we only know 4% of the universe. The rest is dark matter, dark energy, and...

• 2:38:58AJ Gentile?

  Whatever that means.

• 2:38:59Speaker 03

  Whatever that means. Dark means we don't know. Doesn't mean black. Okay? So, dark matter, dark energy, who knows? But I'll tell you this. If we talk about the four dimensions, okay, and a fifth dimension, we want to talk about it in terms that give us some kind of grab hold into the other dimensions.

• 2:39:20AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 2:39:20Speaker 03

  So, we have a new construct, and that construct partly is string theory. String theory's not proven. We don't know that it's real.

• 2:39:26AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:39:27Speaker 03

  Okay? We have no idea. But, if we can employ, let's, let's hypothesize for a bit. If we can have a fourth dimensional space with a fifth dimensional space too, that actually corresponds to one particular variant of string theory called Randall sundrum 1, RS 1. Okay?

• 2:39:47Speaker 03

  Well, Randal's Sundrum 1 states that there's four dimensions and a fifth dimension. If we can access that fifth dimension, there's something that's a quality of that fifth dimension that I use my thumb for, which is very, really, really, really strange. The farther in you go into that fifth dimension, it's exponential.

• 2:40:03AJ Gentile?

  It's exponential.

• 2:40:04Speaker 03

  The farther you go in, the smaller the universe gets around you. So imagine this, you travel 12 inches out here. You go 12 measured inches on the ruler. Go into the fifth dimension, some distance, you travel that same 12 inches from your personal measurement on your ship. You're actually traveling a much bigger distance because when you come out, that expands to the size that you actually went.

• 2:40:29AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:40:30Speaker 03

  Okay? So that means you could be at the moon. But wait, don't you travel all the distance from here to the moon? It took us like two and a half days to get there. All right? Well, no, because you're utilizing this other dimension. So what happens is you translate to the fifth dimension, all right, from this exit point in your four-dimensional space, let's say Earth orbit. You go into the fifth dimension, and you translate to a new four-dimensional point over at the moon.

• 2:40:57AJ Gentile?

  And you can do that because the space is, I think, Klein called it compactified, exponentially. So you're really just hopping out and back in.

• 2:41:07Speaker 03

  You're punching out and punching in.

• 2:41:08AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:41:09Speaker 03

  That's right. Now, think about that, okay? It makes no sense.

• 2:41:12AJ Gentile?

  Before you go on with that.

• 2:41:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:41:15AJ Gentile?

  If Ars one, and for people listening, this is a published paper from, I think, the late 90s. If gravity originates deep within the bulk, and it's compactified exponentially, then that would unify the theory because gravity would just be leaking back to our dimension, and it's exhausted by the time it reaches, and hierarchy is solved.

• 2:41:37Speaker 03

  You don't need me. You got it.

• 2:41:39AJ Gentile?

  Well, so that's how it works. Now, how do we travel in that?

• 2:41:43Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:41:44AJ Gentile?

  Because that happens at the subatomic level. How do you blow that up?

• 2:41:48Speaker 03

  Well, see, that's the problem. We don't actually know how to access it that way.

• 2:41:52AJ Gentile?

  Mark!

• 2:41:53Speaker 03

  We don't. We don't know. No one does. Okay? But we actually have, okay, here is the nature of this process. Back in the 20s, Kaluza and Klein theorized that there were Kaluza Klein particles. And they theorized that these particles could potentially have uses and characteristics that might be advantageous to us. But back then, they didn't know anything. Well, go to CERN now, and there's a detector on that Large Hadron Collider that was built some years back called ATLAS, A-T-L-A-S, very different from 3IATLAS. It's a different detector. What's it do? Well, in part, it was built to do what?

• 2:42:37Speaker 03

  Detect Kaluza Klein particles. Why? They're only theoretical. Because if we can detect them, these are particles that are very, very interesting.

• 2:42:48AJ Gentile?

  Why is that, Mark?

• 2:42:49Speaker 03

  Because they allow us to take gravity and actually quantify it in a way that will allow us to actually utilize it.

• 2:42:57AJ Gentile?

  Is this the elusive graviton?

• 2:42:58Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:42:59AJ Gentile?

  Ooh.

• 2:43:00Speaker 03

  This takes us... You knew that. I know you knew that.

• 2:43:03AJ Gentile?

  And Einstein read this paper, I think the first paper from Kaluza, held it for two years. He couldn't break it. He couldn't break the math.

• 2:43:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, because it actually made sense.

• 2:43:12AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 2:43:13Speaker 03

  Yeah. It's difficult when you're looking at things that don't make sense when you think they... or that do make sense when you think they shouldn't, right? And then you're gonna sit on it, like he did. He sat on it for a long time, right? But the point being, let's draw a picture. Okay, you have a UFO. You asked me why they're circular. I never answered that question purposely because I wanted to get to this to answer that, okay? When you talk about how we generate those particles, we're trying to generate them by speeding protons into a circular channel and curving them with magnetic fields.

• 2:43:52AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:43:53Speaker 03

  Well, when you take a charged particle like a proton, a plus-one charge, okay? Made of three quarks. Okay? When we do that, we put them into a ring like that. To make them go in a circle, we have to use the magnetic field to contain it. Every time you do that, protons want to go in a straight direction. So when you curve them, they generate another form of radiation, which you probably know is called synchrotron radiation.

• 2:44:14AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 2:44:15Speaker 03

  That's very dangerous, so we don't want that. Okay? That's why CERN launches hadron colliders, hundreds of feet underground, blah, blah, blah. Okay? The ground protects. So, the problem is that...

• 2:44:27Speaker 03

  That is the way that we're generating particles to look at. And we're doing it crude. It's rudimentary. We don't have an efficient way to generate particles. We just look at how they splash together at the end of the channel.

• 2:44:38AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:44:38Speaker 03

  And we base, look at the base, on the basis of that beautiful collision, we can follow the trails and build digital paths that they take and say, oh, look, that's a quark. You know, this one has charm. Okay. I mean, and figure stuff out that way. But we're also doing that to try and find Kaluza Klein particles. Notice I didn't see gravitons yet. Okay. Because the elusive graviton would, would basically theoretically come from the fact that all the quantum particles are dual, they're dual. We have a wave and we have a particle nature. So we now know that gravity has waves. Where's the particle?

• 2:45:20AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:45:21Speaker 03

  It's got to exist. We just can't see it.

• 2:45:24AJ Gentile?

  Can't see it.

• 2:45:24Speaker 03

  And the reason we can't? It's not in our four dimensions. It's originating outside in the fifth dimension.

• 2:45:31AJ Gentile?

  Ah.

• 2:45:32Speaker 03

  So this means that when we, when we are subject to gravity, we can measure it. We can calculate its effects. We can send, we can send probes outside our solar system on exacting paths using gravity and propulsion. But we aren't actually controlling gravity. We're subject to it.

• 2:45:53AJ Gentile?

  Because RS1 has three provable experiments that should prove that those gravitons are there and we can't find, none of them work. It's null. It's three, we're 0 for three.

• 2:46:03Speaker 03

  Our technology is, is not to the point where we can possibly do it. I would like to get more information and like to see that we can prove, we have to prove string theory. We have to actually be able to live within RS1 for some period of time to be able to do this.

• 2:46:18AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 2:46:18Speaker 03

  I don't think we're there yet. But I do think that this is the way they operate. And let me paint another picture. When we talk about the Large Hadron Collider, it's a big ring, right? And we're primitive. We have a 22 mile ring that we're trying to make these particles collide in. It takes us that much time, you know, in size to actually speed these things up to near light speed to collide, et cetera, et cetera.

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• 2:47:44Speaker 03

  Alien creatures, probably being, say, 1,000 years ahead of us, would have figured out how to shrink their accelerators to generate particles that they could then use for their purposes. All right? So when you talk about UFOs being round, I think they're round, especially the 30-foot sport model, as Lazar calls it.

• 2:48:04AJ Gentile?

  Right, the coop.

• 2:48:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, whatever that is. Okay? The 30-foot diameter size, I think that they're round like that because the outer ring is an accelerator. These are particle accelerators, and they're generating particles that surround the craft and close the loop with gravity. They generate these fifth-dimensional particles from their accelerators, and because they generate these particles, they're pulled into the fifth dimension, because that's where they're going, I'll call it this way, going home to. Okay? And they pull every craft in, they pull anything within them, into this fifth dimension. Now, that's very dangerous, especially in a compressed universe. If anything goes wrong in there, they're toast.

• 2:48:42AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:48:42Speaker 03

  Figuratively and accurately, okay? However... If they can pull it off, if they can get in there and they can go in a certain distance, alright, and what they do is they now can punch in at a new point from within there, but based on how far in they go, that point they go to will be expanded to a much bigger distance. So theoretically, you can go from here to Alpha Centauri, and a Stanford physicist figured this out, last I checked. He calculated that using Kaluza Klein gravitons, if they exist, they're about 10 to the 16 times stronger than the gravitons holding us to our chairs today.

• 2:49:16AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:49:16Speaker 03

  Okay. He said, "If we can do that and use these particles like that, we could actually get to Alpha Centauri in about 20 minutes using this technology."

• 2:49:27AJ Gentile?

  Which is what, four light years, four and change?

• 2:49:29Speaker 03

  4.3.

• 2:49:30AJ Gentile?

  Wow, and 20 minutes?

• 2:49:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, and we're not, we're not, we're not traveling four light years. We're not violating the speed of light, because we're not using it.

• 2:49:38AJ Gentile?

  You just hop into the fifth dimension?

• 2:49:39Speaker 03

  And pop in.

• 2:49:40AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:49:41Speaker 03

  It's probably gonna be like this, you know, like zigzagging through space between here and Alpha Centauri.

• 2:49:46AJ Gentile?

  Why would you bounce in and out?

• 2:49:48Speaker 03

  Because we can't probably go the whole way. We probably can't generate the energy to go so far in that we can make the massive jump. We can't. And maybe when we get the technology, we're gonna take a, a, a, a bottle-sized spacecraft and send it to the moon in, in two and a half seconds. Whoa, look what we did! You know, and then bring it back, okay? So, but the fact is, if we can't, if, if we do that, we're gonna, we're gonna probably oscillate in and out, okay? And this is key, because if you oscillate in and out from the fifth dimension to our four dimensions, if you do it fast enough, well, now it's like a frequency, right? And if you can do it fast enough, you're not here, you're not there. You're sort of in between, kind of in that little in-between path at all times. So guess what?

• 2:50:32Speaker 03

  You can be in the deep ocean for as long as you want and not feel any force or pressure. No problem. You can live down there. You can hide from us. You can actually have your UFO sitting on the bottom, you can have your ship on the bottom and just sit there.

• 2:50:45AJ Gentile?

  How does that accelerator protect the occupants?

• 2:50:47Speaker 03

  Ah, well, see, that's the thing. The accelerator, okay, the central core, alright, is gonna be subject to synchrotron radiation as well, probably very intense.

• 2:50:57AJ Gentile?

  But not as much as the outside, no?

• 2:50:59Speaker 03

  Well, it could, it's radial in all directions.

• 2:51:01AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 2:51:02Speaker 03

  But the fact being, in the interior, you can shield that.

• 2:51:06Speaker 03

  We can shield the craft to prevent that.

• 2:51:08AJ Gentile?

  But that's a Taurus. How do you protect above and below the plane of the accelerator?

• 2:51:13Speaker 03

  You don't.

• 2:51:14AJ Gentile?

  You don't?

• 2:51:15Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:51:15AJ Gentile?

  You don't have to?

• 2:51:16Speaker 03

  You don't have to, because the occupants are inside, in the middle. And they're protected, okay? They have shielding. So that stuff is gonna surround the whole ship.

• 2:51:24AJ Gentile?

  Meta-material would be useful there.

• 2:51:26Speaker 03

  No kidding? Right, maybe?

• 2:51:28AJ Gentile?

  Maybe.

• 2:51:28Speaker 03

  Now, keep in mind that there's another wrinkle I haven't talked about. That's micro-black holes.

• 2:51:34AJ Gentile?

  There's a few wrinkles here, but...

• 2:51:35Speaker 03

  There's a few.

• 2:51:35AJ Gentile?

  But I love it.

• 2:51:36Speaker 03

  You know, there's so many wrinkles that it's like, is it even worth talking about? But yes, it is.

• 2:51:39AJ Gentile?

  Yes, it is.

• 2:51:40Speaker 03

  Because I believe that this is the way that it may actually work.

• 2:51:43AJ Gentile?

  I think you're right.

• 2:51:45Speaker 03

  I think so. And I think Bob Schroeder was right, too, when he wrote that book.

• 2:51:48AJ Gentile?

  So, micro-black holes.

• 2:51:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, the micro-black holes, okay, here's what they do. Okay, with a tiny particle, alright, that's 10 to the 16th times more powerful than the gravitons holding us down, it's gonna generate a certain percentage of micro-black holes. Theoretical construct. We don't see them all the time, right, obviously? So, if you do that, what are they gonna do? They only live a few nanoseconds, a few billionths of a second. But if you keep a flow around your ship at all times, you have a certain net number. If you're seeing a ship using them, what are you gonna see? You're gonna see the ship shimmer.

• 2:52:25AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:52:25Speaker 03

  You see it change color.

• 2:52:26AJ Gentile?

  Wobble.

• 2:52:27Speaker 03

  You might see it wobble, you might see it vanish. And what's it gonna eat? It's gonna eat some atmosphere, it's gonna eat some light, and it's gonna eat the gravitons coming from the Earth.

• 2:52:35AJ Gentile?

  That's right.

• 2:52:35Speaker 03

  And it's gonna prevent the Earth's gravity from reaching it. It's not anti-gravity, it's preventative. It's preventing the Earth gravitons from getting to it.

• 2:52:43AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:52:44Speaker 03

  As a shield, okay? So that's not anti-gravity, per se. That's actually just gravity avoidance. It's avoiding gravity very cleverly.

• 2:52:54AJ Gentile?

  Do those singularities affect gravitons out of the bulk? Out of the extra dimension?

• 2:52:59Speaker 03

  Oh, well, okay, that's a very good point, okay? When you talk about those little micro-black holes... Outside the bulk, they're affecting our Earth gravitons because they're actually consuming them, right? In a way that we don't even understand.

• 2:53:15AJ Gentile?

  Right, because graviton, that emanates from mass.

• 2:53:18Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 2:53:19AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 2:53:19Speaker 03

  So, right, right, go to the Higgs boson to talk about, you know, why we have mass for particles. That's another show, okay? But, think about this, okay? If we have, for instance, if we have a bunch of these particles surrounding our ship, and we have a net number of micro black holes, it's gonna eat, like I said, air, light, all that, and give you visual effects that we see in the literature, okay? Of all the UFOs, we see this stuff happening. Is it possible it's Kaluza Klein gravitons in play? Maybe. Is it possible that it's just a distant star shimmering on the horizon? We know it has been. Yes, that's all true. So, differentiating between all of this is the tough part within our physics. So, if we now see that we eat some of the Earth gravitons,

• 2:54:05Speaker 03

  that explains why these things look like falling leaves sometimes to people.

• 2:54:08AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 2:54:09Speaker 03

  And just drifting. Because the occupants don't have an up or down. In fact, when they disappear from one spot, sometimes they'll vanish outright in front of you and reappear over there. I'm an astronomer. We can say that's the auto kinetic effect. Your eye is unable to track things.

• 2:54:25AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:54:25Speaker 03

  Right, so you look where you think you were looking isn't, so your eyes, your eye is always dancing around. It's an evolutionary trait of our eyes, okay? So, you're never gonna be able to see a point light in the sky and try and follow it around. It's not gonna work, okay? Unless it's constant. If it disappears, you'll lose it, and it might look like it's appearing somewhere else, not very far away. I've done that before and showed people that they're actually looking at a tumbling satellite, making a perfectly straight line, dash of light, no light. Dash of light, no light. They say, "It's here, now it's there, now it's there. Wow, it's a UFO blinking at us." I was taking a picture, guys. It's a tumbling satellite, and there's the proof. So, it points out the foibles of the human eye.

• 2:55:05AJ Gentile?

  Sure.

• 2:55:06Speaker 03

  So, now, take that, okay? And let's go a step further. So now, if your Kaluza Klein gravitons are eating a little light, a little air, whatever, then they're gonna disappear and they're gonna get replaced with more, right? Micro black holes, they eat a little bit of our gravity, right? The gravitational particles that we haven't found yet. And now the ship is not subject to Earth gravity, right? If they choose to go from one XYZ coordinate in that point in time to another, well then to your eye and right in front of you, if it was this mug, it would literally disappear right out of my hands. It'd physically not be there. Whoa, it's gone. And then something could appear like here. And it would really have done that. Because when it goes to the

• 2:55:50Speaker 03

  fifth dimension, it's really not here anymore.

• 2:55:53AJ Gentile?

  It's really not.

• 2:55:53Speaker 03

  Yeah. So as long as they can keep those particles flowing, then they can actually do this process and continue to do it. So the question is, but Mark, what about the energy requirements?

• 2:56:05AJ Gentile?

  Oh, yeah. And the Hawking radiation as well.

• 2:56:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, Hawking radiation is very important, right? What do they do about it? Why don't we see that? Well, Doug and I were actually for, we were using this technique to try to decide if we were actually seeing UFOs or not. We wanted to create Hawking radiation detectors. Very expensive, okay? And very, very out of reach right now.

• 2:56:28AJ Gentile?

  Well, yeah.

• 2:56:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:56:30AJ Gentile?

  This is when a black hole evaporates, that's when we get the.

• 2:56:33Speaker 03

  Yeah. And we would not be able to capture that.

• 2:56:36AJ Gentile?

  No.

• 2:56:37Speaker 03

  You know, not with our conventional.

• 2:56:38AJ Gentile?

  No.

• 2:56:39Speaker 03

  Systems. So we opted for gamma rays.

• 2:56:42AJ Gentile?

  Okay, interesting.

• 2:56:45Speaker 03

  And if we see a thing vanish in the sky and we get a burst of gamma rays, well, that might actually indicate that, because that's going to be another incidental, that might indicate that we're looking at Kaluza Klein gravitons in play. Right? And we have a gamma ray detector on the system. We had one. It was about that big. It was a little horn. And we thought, that's cool, but I want to micro miniaturize it. That's what I told Doug. I want to miniaturize this and put them each on a single platter. Each platter has one, you know? And he's like, you know, you're gonna have like a million dollar platters out there, you know? I don't know if we want to put that kind of stuff out in the middle of desert, you know? I said, well, if we can get funding for doing this, we probably could. And we could gate it off. We could, you know, make sure that they're camouflaged, right? The cameras need to be able to see, but it could look like it's a boulder and

• 2:57:29Speaker 03

  when no one, I could, we're visual effects guys. We can make that happen.

• 2:57:32AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:57:32Speaker 03

  We can make a camera that can see and smell and taste and that we can do all that.

• 2:57:36AJ Gentile?

  It's only the most important invention ever.

• 2:57:38Speaker 03

  Only ever.

• 2:57:39AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:57:39Speaker 03

  Yeah. So the point being, okay, if you look at the fact that UFOs then are accelerators, they figured out how to miniaturize. They figured out how to make circular pathways and wave guides that are really small. However, they don't shield the outside, as you've said. And what do we have in history? People touch UFOs, what do they get?

• 2:57:59AJ Gentile?

  Radiation burn.

• 2:58:00Speaker 03

  And burned. Where do you think those burns are from?

• 2:58:03AJ Gentile?

  Synchtron radiation.

• 2:58:03Speaker 03

  There you go. See, now you're picking it up. And you're putting it together, too.

• 2:58:07AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 2:58:07Speaker 03

  This is where we're going. So it's like, it seems to all match.

• 2:58:11AJ Gentile?

  It does.

• 2:58:12Speaker 03

  That's why I got a cowboy hat.

• 2:58:13AJ Gentile?

  That, you deserve that cowboy hat.

• 2:58:15Speaker 03

  You know? Um, you know, and well, I, I should have given it to Bob Schroeder, you know, but, but that was his initial thought process. And I, I, I'm really, uh, very comfortable with this thought process because I think that looking at the universe as vast as it is, how do we shortcut? I mean, if we travel at light speed, it takes us over four years to get to the nearest star other than our own. Okay? It takes months to get to our own. You know?

• 2:58:44AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:58:45Speaker 03

  So how do we do that? You know, we have to do it by literally avoiding the speed limit of the universe, which is light speed. And to do that, we need to actually get out of the four dimensions.

• 2:58:56AJ Gentile?

  Fortunately, people are experimenting right now to try to solve that. Not for UFOs, although they should keep that in mind, but just to solve the hierarchy problem.

• 2:59:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's right. I mean, the disparity in the forces, I mean, it's just incredible.

• 2:59:09AJ Gentile?

  And everything falls right into place.

• 2:59:10Speaker 03

  But again, once we can, once we realize where gravity really comes from, we're probably going to find that the hierarchy problem isn't as bad as we thought.

• 2:59:20AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:59:20Speaker 03

  Because gravity is only partially visible here. We're not seeing the whole thing.

• 2:59:25AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:59:26Speaker 03

  So if we see the whole thing, well, that might fall right into line. And guess what? Unification.

• 2:59:30AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 2:59:30Speaker 03

  Right, we can do that, but it's going to take some time. Going to take some time.

• 2:59:36AJ Gentile?

  Speculate on how navigation would work in the bulk.

• 2:59:40Speaker 03

  Um, it's just speculation, but I mean, what would we do? I mean, see in the bulk, now you're in a compressed universe.

• 2:59:46AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 2:59:47Speaker 03

  So whatever distance you travel in the bulk, it's literally going to be a translation to another coordinate from within the bulk, too. Speculating, not actuating, I don't know. Okay, but if, if you travel a certain distance, you don't have to go far.

• 3:00:02AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 3:00:03Speaker 03

  To extend that to a massive amount when you come out. You know, literally, depending on how far you can go in. Okay, let's, let's talk about UFOs acting in the atmosphere. People say, it's going across the sky at unbelievable speeds.

• 3:00:15AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 3:00:15Speaker 03

  It's, it's making 90 degree turns in the sky. You know, how can it possibly do that? No creatures could survive that. And they're right, not even them. They're not making 90 degree turns at high speed. This is a punch in coordinate. All that's changing for them, it feels like we feel right in here now. In this incredible studio, okay? Nothing's moving. All that's changing is the scene outside the window.

• 3:00:42AJ Gentile?

  They could just be navigating like, hey Bruce, make a right. We're a little bit off.

• 3:00:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, go to these coordinates.

• 3:00:47AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 3:00:48Speaker 03

  I think they're the greatest cartographers in the universe, to be honest with you.

• 3:00:50AJ Gentile?

  Well, they have to be if you're not.

• 3:00:51Speaker 03

  Exactly so, they gotta know, whoops, sorry Torg. You got us in a star. Get us over here. I said get out as soon as I can, you know? So, I mean, it's really crazy. So, they, they have to be good cartographers too. But yeah, and so, the bottom line is if they're gonna be able to, to go point to point like that. All the changes, like I said, is their view out the window. They go from this point to that point without traveling the distance. Okay, but what do our linear devices capture? Something going from here to here. And if, even if it went, ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding, in a very high speed, to our cameras, to our sensors, it looks like it's going boom.

• 3:01:29AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 3:01:30Speaker 03

  So, we translate it to a high speed. It's not high speed, it's zero speed.

• 3:01:35AJ Gentile?

  Zero speed.

• 3:01:36Speaker 03

  How about that?

• 3:01:37AJ Gentile?

  I love it.

• 3:01:38Speaker 03

  And that's why UFOs don't need engines. They're just translating from one XYZ coordinate to another by doing this transfer to the bulk. All they need is the power generation. And by the way, we keep mentioning power generation. Where does that come from? Hmm, what could do it? What could possibly create the power needed to do that? Hmm, bet you you have an idea. I'll tell you, I'll tell you, huh?

• 3:02:00AJ Gentile?

  I might, go ahead.

• 3:02:01Speaker 03

  How about you do? Okay, here's what I think. Right now, we deal with fission, uh, nuclear science, right?

• 3:02:07AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 3:02:08Speaker 03

  Uh, we've discovered that if you have exposed fuel rods, next to other exposed fuel rods, they generate, you know, these, these errant particles that come off and heat up the, the fluid they're in. And basically, a nuclear reactor just makes steam, that's all it's for.

• 3:02:24AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 3:02:25Speaker 03

  Now...

• 3:02:27Speaker 03

  But that's dangerous. And if the water goes away, those fuel rods begin to melt. There's nothing cooling them, right? Witness Chernobyl, witness with that graphite reactor blew the stack, poisoned all of Europe. You know, essentially, there was fallout through all of Europe detected. Okay. And I'll tell you a story about how that was stopped too, if you want after. But so then with fission power, I liken it to being in a deep valley, like a V like this. Fission is at the bottom. To make it stop, you've got to push the reaction out of that deep valley to get it back to the top. The pushing out is the control rods going down to shut down the reactor, right? That takes energy and you have to be able to do it.

• 3:03:12Speaker 03

  Now, the Russians have a submarine that had a kind of a runaway and they couldn't put the control rods down in. And it ran away, sailors died, submarine sunk, some sailors were rescued, some died, okay, because of fission reaction gone awry. So they couldn't climb the wall of that canyon to get out to the safety. Okay, that's fission. Now, all I have to do is bring my fingers together and go the other way. Now you have a point. That's where fusion lives. A fusion reaction is very temperamental and with, unlike fission, if fission goes out of whack, you melt down, you blow up, you do a Fukushima, you had a hydrogen explosion

• 3:03:57Speaker 03

  in your, in your building because your, your, your, your spent fuel rod pool is dry. Okay, you get that. However, in a case of fission, here's where you are. You're at the top of that, that top of that little peak and you balance that reaction. If it goes out of balance just a little bit, it shuts off. No nuclear bombardment of anything, no, no ionizing radiation, no Cherenkov radiation, no dangerous results. In fact, one of the fuels for a fusion reactor.

• 3:04:31Speaker 03

  Is tritium. And tritium is harmless to us in the sense, you could rub it on your skin. Ah, gimme. It's like talcum powder, rub it on your skin. Okay. It doesn't penetrate your skin. Worse, it's not, or better, it's not even cumulative. So you will, you'll get rid of it. You'll excrete it out.

• 3:04:50AJ Gentile?

  But Mark, they say there's no sustained fusion reaction.

• 3:04:54Speaker 03

  Well, they say that, except that Lawrence Livermore Lab in San Francisco is making great strides, aren't they?

• 3:05:00AJ Gentile?

  They certainly are.

• 3:05:01Speaker 03

  They have. That's right. And I knew one of Lawrence Livermore Lab scientists, a good friend of mine. In fact, one of our observatories is on his land in Arizona. Okay. A top nuclear scientist for Lawrence Livermore. And so that, that particular, that particular conundrum, saying that we don't have fusion, well, we don't. However, and they always say it's just 10 years away.

• 3:05:27AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 3:05:28Speaker 03

  10 more years, 10 more years, get your stuff together. Right? Well, anyway, it's say, they always say 10 more years, but fusion has come a long way. One of the problems with fusion is sustaining it. Right? Because we look at the sun. We say, well, the sun has a temperature of over 15 million Celsius in the middle, and that's fusing hydrogen into helium. Okay? And it's a process, call it proton-proton reaction, you know, there's deuterium in there and all that stuff. Okay? But eventually you get this helium isotope. Okay? Fine, great. Energy's released.

• 3:06:00AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 3:06:01Speaker 03

  That's what we want. Okay? But we want more energy coming out than we're putting in.

• 3:06:04AJ Gentile?

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:06:04Speaker 03

  Okay? And that's the problem. Okay? So that said, the idea now is, well, we can fuse a fuel pellet and have fusion occur for a split second. Yay! That's a huge, actually, that's big.

• 3:06:17AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 3:06:17Speaker 03

  We did that several years ago.

• 3:06:19Speaker 04

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• 3:06:50Speaker 03

  Now... Uh, they've achieved something else. They actually achieved a sustained reaction. They were able to do more of a fusion reaction than before. And because they're using magnetic containment and so forth, they're actually able to isolate the particles, isolate the heat. And now there's another fusion process that's making its way onto the stage. And that is a fusion process that uses laser bombardment. Okay? That doesn't require the containment like the other. Now, I don't know enough about that yet, but it's very exciting. It's not the cold fusion thing that people were talking about, which of course was debunked fairly.

• 3:07:29AJ Gentile?

  Yep. No, I know what you mean. It's been used in sci-fi, is using lasers.

• 3:07:34Speaker 03

  Yeah. And so, this multiple laser bombardment technique is something that I'm very fascinated by. So I'm gonna be following up on that. So next time, we'll talk about that, right? Kind of a thing.

• 3:07:44AJ Gentile?

  I look forward to it.

• 3:07:45Speaker 03

  Right? So think about it. I mean, if you think about it, that means that fusion reactors are coming. All right? Well, guess what? CERN is looking for these KK particles. Lawrence Livermore is working on a fusion reactor. How do you generate KK particles efficiently with a fusion reactor? Marry the two together. And now, you might generate maybe a little bottle-sized probe to go interstellar. You know? And then we'll have, you know, the first aliens come in here and say, "Hey, hey, no more warp drive. You guys cut that crap out now. We're not ready for ya, and you're not ready for us." You know? I don't know.

• 3:08:25Speaker 03

  It's a joke, obviously, but we're entering that whole, uh, that whole, uh, was it Zefram Cochrane?

• 3:08:33AJ Gentile?

  That's right. The first warp drive.

• 3:08:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. We're entering that first, uh, in that first thing. But it's interesting how science fiction leads to science fact.

• 3:08:41AJ Gentile?

  It really does.

• 3:08:42Speaker 03

  It always does. And in fact, that's kinda weird. And it comes from, I think, a biological evolution. All right? We can't think of anything with our brains that is actually patently impossible to actually do. Our brains don't allow us to do that. Our brains are made from the material universe. We have the knowledge of the universe kind of within us, right? I mean, based on our, our, the arch, the archetypal brain, okay? We know how it's made essentially. We know the organics, okay? Yeah, yeah, there's microtubules. Yeah, there's a whole zero, you know, I know about zero point energy. No, I don't even have to go there. I'm talking about just the fact that when you start to think of something fantastical,

• 3:09:27Speaker 03

  right, is it really impossible to make? You know, oh, we can think of impossible things. I'm going to invent something to make my elbow touch my nose. You know, well, we know that's, that's an anatomical limitation, right?

• 3:09:39AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 3:09:39Speaker 03

  But, and we, but we know it's not possible. But we'll say, I want to make something like that, but you can't. And we know that. So we know it's not possible. But still, we can, we can muse about it. But we can't actually think of a, of a development that is patently impossible to actually do in the, within the laws of physics, right? Because physics, everything we're seeing now, and I'm sure people are thinking, oh, I got a few. Okay, and maybe they do, okay? But the fact is, it's all in the, your perspective of looking at the, of the laws of physics, the laws at the quantum levels, the laws of the universe, okay? People have to keep in mind, the periodic table is the same here as it is a billion light years away.

• 3:10:22AJ Gentile?

  That's right.

• 3:10:23Speaker 03

  The elements are the same a billion light years away as they are here, right? Hydrogen is the most populous. Helium's next. Oxygen is the third most populous element in the whole universe. And then there's carbon. So carbon and oxygen have a love affair.

• 3:10:38AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 3:10:39Speaker 03

  They've had it for a long time. And so we're going to get carbon-based life. It's going to make discoveries. It's going to probably have intelligence, as we've talked about earlier today.

• 3:10:49AJ Gentile?

  Well, let's bring it home by reconnecting to, we're talking about sci-fi movies preparing us for disclosure.

• 3:10:54Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 3:10:55AJ Gentile?

  Let's, let's end with that. What's, what's going on?

• 3:10:58Speaker 03

  Well, you remember the movie Prometheus?

• 3:11:01AJ Gentile?

  Yes, yes, I do.

• 3:11:02Speaker 03

  The engineers that built Earth. They're gonna wipe you guys out because you were a failed experiment, right? And we took issue with that.

• 3:11:08AJ Gentile?

  We did.

• 3:11:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, we rose up.

• 3:11:10AJ Gentile?

  They had, they had, they had a couple of good points, but I, I get your meaning.

• 3:11:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, but, but the message there is, uh, humans are, are, are, are a bad invention and you gotta keep your heads down just in case life was seeded here. Uh, we wanna be careful not to get our way out there, you know, and, and start announcing ourselves before our time.

• 3:11:28AJ Gentile?

  Yeah, that's dark, I'm kinda, I'm more of a dark forest guy. You know, I'm a, I'm a keep your head down, kinda like Stephen Hawking, maybe, maybe keep quiet.

• 3:11:36Speaker 03

  Too late.

• 3:11:37AJ Gentile?

  Too late, too late.

• 3:11:38Speaker 03

  You know why?

• 3:11:39AJ Gentile?

  I do, go ahead, go ahead.

• 3:11:42Speaker 03

  Two and a half billion years ago.

• 3:11:43AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 3:11:44Speaker 03

  Okay, oxygen built up in our atmosphere.

• 3:11:46AJ Gentile?

  I knew you were gonna say that, the blue frickin' marble.

• 3:11:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's, it's better than that, it's the blazing blue beacon.

• 3:11:52AJ Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 3:11:52Speaker 03

  In the universe, and you know what? We're, how far along in human race? A few hundred thousand maybe years overall? Okay? And 4.2 million years away from Lucy, you know, Australopithecus, Aferensis, right? Okay, well, the bottom line is that in that time, we're looking for life elsewhere. And what are we doing? We're looking for oxygen in a planet's atmosphere. So it stands to reason that another civilization's gonna do the same. I believe that fully. Okay? And I believe that it just takes about 500 years, 300 years, 500 years ahead of us to do it more efficiently than we're doing it by far. So, uh, for two billion years roughly, we've been announcing there's oxygen in the atmosphere of this little blue, you know, blue beacon.

• 3:12:34Speaker 03

  And tests looks for a swath of planets with, with, uh, transits and, and, uh, there's no reason to expect it. A test-type telescope created by an alien race is gonna look for an oxygen signature.

• 3:12:45AJ Gentile?

  So we could've been visited for thousands of years then?

• 3:12:48Speaker 03

  By many.

• 3:12:49AJ Gentile?

  Millions of years.

• 3:12:50Speaker 03

  By many different types of, of, of aliens, if that's true, uh, and I do believe that's possible.

• 3:12:55AJ Gentile?

  And if they wanted us gone, that's, they could do that.

• 3:12:58Speaker 03

  Correct, but here's the thing. If you're a civilization that creates technology to travel and ply the gulf between the stars, are you actually going to go to destroy them and conquer them and do an Independence Day?

• 3:13:11AJ Gentile?

  I don't think so.

• 3:13:13Speaker 03

  No, you're not coming to do an alien thing like eat the brains either, you're not gonna do that, okay?

• 3:13:17AJ Gentile?

  I think you'd stick your finger in and say, "Stop messing with the nuclear weapons", you might do that.

• 3:13:22Speaker 03

  You might do that, you know, if they had an interest in us.

• 3:13:24AJ Gentile?

  Right. Or just an interest in the resources or...

• 3:13:27Speaker 03

  "Hey, Tor, let's see what they do with the nukes."

• 3:13:29AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 3:13:30Speaker 03

  "Okay, okay, you sure we wanna let 'em? Yeah, why not? What could go wrong?"

• 3:13:33AJ Gentile?

  I hope they're paying attention right now with what's going on.

• 3:13:36Speaker 03

  I know, right? But think about that, isn't that crazy? So, the bottom line is then that, you know, whereas Hollywood influences what people think, I have a feeling when actual disclosure occurs, people are gonna go, "That's it?

• 3:13:49AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 3:13:50Speaker 03

  That's it? Where's the fireballs? Where's the explosion? Where's Will Smith? Where's all, where's this? Come on, where's the 'Welcome to Earth'? But where's all that?" You know? It's probably not gonna happen.

• 3:14:02AJ Gentile?

  When do you think, uh, when do you think Disclosure Day is? Government knows, I don't think that's...

• 3:14:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, we know that the Navy sees these things, and here's what the rule is, I found this out, it's actually from, you know, the guys we talked to in the Navy, they, their operative mission is to observe and report, do not engage. That's what they do.

• 3:14:25AJ Gentile?

  But we want more than, "Hey, there's stuff out there that we don't know what it is." We wanna know, there's 15 races here, here's what they look like, the Nordics, the Italians, the Greys, we wanna know that.

• 3:14:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, like people of Earth.

• 3:14:36AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 3:14:37Speaker 03

  Right? We had Jeff, we had, uh, you know...

• 3:14:39AJ Gentile?

  That's right.

• 3:14:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, Jeff the Grey, hey, you know, and he's always getting messed up, right?

• 3:14:43AJ Gentile?

  Are they gonna tell us that? Are they gonna bring out the chart?

• 3:14:46Speaker 03

  See, I don't, I don't think that there is anyone that knows what the chart looks like.

• 3:14:50AJ Gentile?

  Oh, no. Did no Majestic 12, no Council of Nine.

• 3:14:53Speaker 03

  I don't know that that was real or false, I can't say, but I'm not gonna, you know, throw water on it and put it, you know, put shade on it, because I don't know.

• 3:15:02AJ Gentile?

  Okay.

• 3:15:03Speaker 03

  Uh, is it possible? Maybe. Yeah, maybe. Um, you know, I've read all the books, you know, I love Corso's book, you know, The Day After Roswell, that was fantastic, you know, talking about seeding technology to societies little by little, or companies.

• 3:15:16AJ Gentile?

  It's great. I debunked most of it, but it's a great book.

• 3:15:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. You know, the, the, the, uh, the nut file he had in his, you know, file cabinet and all that stuff. Yeah. Is that possible? Well, it's possible, but do I fully believe it? Well, you know, come on. You know, I think we're fully capable of creating Kevlar.

• 3:15:32AJ Gentile?

  Yes.

• 3:15:33Speaker 03

  The transistor didn't just, you know, didn't just appear overnight. Actually, it was a combination of a lot of work in the past with, with looking at, you know, uh, AND or NAND gates, you know, and putting together a computer, uh, you know, decision-making.

• 3:15:47AJ Gentile?

  Right. So you're going after the reverse engineering argument. Fiber optics, lasers, all of that.

• 3:15:52Speaker 03

  Yeah. I mean, that, that stuff, I mean, there's no reason we couldn't have created that.

• 3:15:56AJ Gentile?

  Right.

• 3:15:57Speaker 03

  You know, uh, because we thought of it and we're trying to put it into practice. We are very, very, uh, I don't know what the word is, creative people, right? We are, you know? You know, Shannon was a "we are creative."

• 3:16:12AJ Gentile?

  I'll keep rooting for the, uh, for the gravitons. That's what I'm hoping for.

• 3:16:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think that's pretty cool. I think that that's probably one of the, the only ways they could actually travel long distances.

• 3:16:21AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 3:16:22Speaker 03

  And it really ties it up in a knot.

• 3:16:23AJ Gentile?

  It makes it so elegant.

• 3:16:25Speaker 03

  And it makes it, it, it removes the biggest impediment, the visitation that exists in the universe right now. And when I came to that realization, it was like half my head went, "pff." I was like, "Wow."

• 3:16:37AJ Gentile?

  I did the same when I read your theory. I said, "I, by George, I think he's done it."

• 3:16:41Speaker 03

  Yeah. And again, I stood on the shoulders of giants, so I'm, I'm, you know, I can't take all the credit, but I can tell you I can be the mouthpiece.

• 3:16:48AJ Gentile?

  Mark D'Antonio, where can we find you online? What can we do to support you?

• 3:16:52Speaker 03

  Oh, man. Well, we got a beautiful Patreon. Um, I only have a few Patreon subscribers for our observatories, but would love more. Um, you know, go to skytourlive.org. Uh, we are a nonprofit organization. I take no money. You know, I'm, I do this out of passion and love for astronomy and I teach people astronomy. I've taught classes in Bangkok from my house in Terryville, Connecticut. Okay. Uh, on astronomy, showing them the live night sky. So we, we, we pride ourselves on showing the universe live in real time, you know, AJ. And it's one of those things where... Once I get going, they have this nickname for me. It's Mark Just One More Dantonio. Because I will find, I'll look at this last object, okay.

• 3:17:33Speaker 05

  Right, you're doing an encore right now.

• 3:17:34Speaker 03

  It's two in the morning and I gotta go to bed, okay, but wait, just one more. We're so close, let's do this. And I show them one more, and of course, people like that. But then, all the photos we take are available for free. They can download and see these beautiful, spectacular objects in a way that they've just never seen. Because they live, people live in light pollution all the time. You know, they don't, they can't see what's above their heads because they're not allowed to. The lights ruin their night view.

• 3:18:02Speaker 05

  Well, I'd love to have you back to go through those images, also to go through some UFO photos and do some of that.

• 3:18:06Speaker 03

  Oh, I like that stuff.

• 3:18:08Speaker 05

  This has been a joy and a pleasure and a treat. Thank you.

• 3:18:11Speaker 03

  Thank you so much, AJ. I've had a great time.

• 3:18:14Speaker 05

  Bye, everybody. So that's Mark Dantonio. And I went down the rabbit hole after we talked, so we can walk through some of this. Mark's credentials check out. He's MUFON's Chief Photo and Video Analyst. His astronomy degree is real. His company, VFX Models, does work for Hollywood and the defense sector. He runs two remote observatories in Arizona and livestreams the night sky through a nonprofit called Sky Tour Live. That's all on the record. And you should definitely check out his livestream. The Gentry Lee story? Confirmed. Gentry Lee is the Chief Engineer for the Solar System Exploration Directorate at JPL. He directed science analysis for Viking missions to Mars. He co-created Cosmos with Carl Sagan. Mark

• 3:18:56Speaker 05

  says this guy wrote him back as a nine-year-old. Lee is documented as exactly the kind of guy who would do that. Now Douglas Trumbull was very real, obviously. He passed away in February 2022 at 79. That was a great loss. He did the effects for 2001, Close Encounters, Blade Runner, Star Trek. I mean, everything. Mark says that they worked together for a decade building a UFO detection system. That collaboration is documented in multiple interviews. Now, the physics stuff, which is my favorite. Mark brought up the Randall-Sundrum model, RS1. Now, that's a real paper from 1999, published by Lysel Randall and Raymond Sundrum in Physical Review Letters. It proposes a fifth dimension that could explain the hierarchy problem,

• 3:19:39Speaker 05

  why gravity is so much weaker than the other fundamental forces. The idea is that gravity originates in an extra dimension and only leaks into ours. That's why it feels weak. CERN's ATLAS detector is actually searching for the signs of these extra dimensions right now, including Kaluza Klein graviton signatures. But so far, they haven't found anything. But the search is still ongoing. The book Mark referenced is Robert Schroeder's Solving the UFO Enigma. And Schroeder proposes that UFOs are miniaturized particle accelerators generating Kaluza Klein gravitons to punch in and out of the fifth dimension. Now, it's speculative, but the underlying physics is RS1 Kaluza Klein theory that's all peer-reviewed and taken seriously.

• 3:20:24Speaker 05

  And it would explain why UFOs are around, why they shimmer, and why witnesses get radiation burns, and why they seem to appear and vanish rather than fly. The fusion stuff tracks, too. Lawrence Livermore's National Ignition Facility achieved fusion ignition on December 5, 2022. They put in about 2 megajoules and got 3 megajoules back. The first time in history more energy came out than would end. And by July 2023, they repeated it and got almost 4 megajoules out. Fusion is no longer "always 10 years away," it happens. But here's what we have to keep in mind. Mark isn't asking anyone to believe in aliens, little green men, grays, or any of that. All he's saying is that the physics exists that could explain how interstellar travel works.

• 3:21:09Speaker 05

  The Randall-Sundrum model, Kaluza Klein particles, extra dimensions. These aren't fringe ideas. They're on the whiteboard at CERN. And in a week or two, we're going to have a physicist from CERN in here, and we talk about this stuff. As for where in the White House catalog this fits... Probably the gravity is a lie category. Maybe the Project Anchor episode. Because what Mark's describing really isn't anti-gravity. It's gravity avoidance. And the math, at least on paper, doesn't break any known laws of physics. It just requires technology we haven't built yet, allegedly. Mark's book is called The Populated Universe. You can find it on Amazon. And if you want to watch him livestream the night sky for free, go to skytourlive.org. We'll have some links down below.

• 3:21:53Speaker 05

  Until next time, be safe, be kind, and know that you are appreciated. That was almost one take. Almost.

• 3:22:17Speaker 06

  I played Bolivia's scenario fifty-one. A secret code inside the bible said I was. I love my UFOs and paranormal fun as well as music. So I'm singing like I should. But then another conspiracy theory becomes the truth, my friends. And it never ends, no it never ends.

• 3:22:55Speaker 06

  I fear the crackhead and I got stuck inside Mel's home with MKL truck. I'm being only too aware. Did Stanley Kubrick fake the moon landing alone on a film set? Were the shadows people there? The Rockwell aliens just fought the smiling man, I'm told. And his name was Cold. And I can't believe I'm dancing with the fish. Head to fish on Thursday nights with AJ too. And one more zombie beat all through the night.

• 3:23:36Speaker 06

  All I ever wanted was to just hear the truth. And one more zombie beat all through the night.

• 3:24:01Speaker 06

  The mapman sightings and the solar storms still come To a god that the secret city underground. Mysterious number stations, planets search for two Project Stargate and what the dark watchers found. In a simulation, don't you worry though. The black night's at a light and told me so. I can't believe I'm dancing with a fish. Head to fish on Thursday nights when they chase you. And one more summer beat all through the night. All I ever wanted was to just hear the truth.

• 3:24:45Speaker 06

  So one more summer beat all through the night. Head to fish on Thursday nights when they chase you. And one more summer beat all through the night. All I ever wanted was to just hear the truth. So one more summer beat all through the night. Girlie loves to dance. Girlie loves to dance. Girlie loves to dance on the dance floor.

• 3:25:27Speaker 06

  Because she is a camel and camels love to dance When the feeling is right on wasting time. Girlie loves to dance.

• 3:25:55Speaker 07

  Welcome to the 50th Hunger Games.

• 3:25:57Speaker 08

  Witness the beginning of the revolution.

• 3:26:00Speaker 07

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• 3:26:02Speaker 08

  Film for IMAX.

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• 3:26:06Speaker 08

  The Hunger Games: Sunrise on the Reaping, November 20th, rated PG-13.

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• 3:26:41Speaker 08

  Now streaming on Paramount+.

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  I'm Dexter Morgan. I've been killing killers for half my life. It gets to you. You're having a midlife crisis. I'm not ready for this.

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  He's back.

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  I'm older. I'm wiser.

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  And sharper than ever.

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  Things are gonna get messy. But if I can't believe in myself, I can't believe in anything.

• 3:27:05Speaker 08

  Dexter Resurrection. New season now streaming on the Paramount+ Premium Plan.