AI marketing Masterclass: From beginner to expert in 60 minutes

I sit down with James Dickerson, a growth marketer, Claude Code power user, and the mind behind The Boring Marketer, to watch him build an entire marketing system live from the terminal. James walks me through his full workflow: deep research with the Perplexity MCP, positioning angle discovery, direct response copywriting, landing page creation, lead magnet design, ad creative generation with Remotion, and traffic strategy — all inside Claude Code using stacked skills and MCPs. By the end, we have a conversion-ready funnel for a fictional AI marketing agency serving boring local businesses, and James shares the free playbook he created from a two-hour recorded session so listeners can replicate the process themselves. Timestamps 00:00 – Intro and Camera Setup Chat 02:57 – Episode Preview: Building a Vibe Marketing System 06:33 – Perplexity MCP for Market Research 08:13 – Live Demo: Researching an AI Marketing Agency Niche 09:48 – Positioning Angles Skill 11:34 – Direct Response Copywriting Skill 15:43 – Playwright MCP for Competitive Intelligence 17:37 – Keeping Your MCP Stack Simple (Perplexity, Firecrawl, Playwright) 20:59 – Anthropic's Front End Design Skill 25:51 – Remotion: Creating Video Ads from the Terminal 28:47 – Landing Page Review: "Boring Money" Agency 30:43 – Orchestrator Skill: Deciding What to Do Next 34:10 – Lead Magnet Skill 34:10 – Are Skills Underrated 39:08 – Claude Code Costs: $200/Month Max Subscription 42:03 – Live Lead Magnet Review 43:28 – Keyword Research and Traffic Strategy Skills 45:23 – The Evolution of Vibe Marketing 47:11 – Remotion Setup and Ad Creation Demo 54:47 – Final Ad and SEO Page Review 57:25 – Final Thoughts Links Mentioned: Vibe Marketing Playbook: https://startup-ideas-pod.link/vibe_marketing_playbook Vibe Marketing Skills: https://startup-ideas-pod.link/Vibe_marketing_skills Key Points Spending an hour on upfront research with the Perplexity MCP produces dramatically better marketing outputs than jumping straight into prompting. Skills are instruction manuals for your AI agent — the expert perspective you build into them (the last 10–20%) is what separates great output from generic AI slop. You can build a complete marketing funnel — landing page, lead magnet, ad creative, SEO content, and traffic strategy — in a single Claude Code session. Remotion lets you create programmatic video ads directly from the terminal at zero cost, in multiple formats, with custom branding. An orchestrator skill can guide you through what to do next, removing the "I have a landing page, now what?" paralysis. The same Claude Code environment where you build products can also ship your entire marketing system — research, copy, design, and deployment in one place. The #1 tool to find startup ideas/trends - https://www.ideabrowser.com LCA helps Fortune 500s and fast-growing startups build their future - from Warner Music to Fortnite to Dropbox. We turn 'what if' into reality with AI, apps, and next-gen products https://latecheckout.agency/ The Vibe Marketer - Resources for people into vibe marketing/marketing with AI: https://www.thevibemarketer.com/ FIND ME ON SOCIAL X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/gregisenberg Instagram: https://instagram.com/gregisenberg/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gisenberg/ FIND JAMES ON SOCIAL X/Twitter: https://x.com/boringmarketer LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jadickerson/

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Greg Isenberg?

  You are in for a treat. Today, we have a vibe marketing lesson by the one and only, The Boring Marketing. And today, he shows exactly how you can use MCPs, skills, and Claude code to build incredible assets like ads and lead magnets. So we go through a live building exercise of how you can do it. And the people that stick around to the end of the episode are just going to be able to use Claude code for vibe marketing. I think that a lot of people have done vibe coding and they're putting out products. They want people to come to those products. So how do you get them? Well, you do things like vibe marketing. You use AI agents to do the work for you.

• 0:44Greg Isenberg?

  Enjoy this masterclass on vibe marketing.

• 0:56Greg Isenberg?

  We are blessed to have James Dickerson, aka The Boring Marketing, aka Mr. Vibe Marketer, aka the guy I go to whenever I'm trying to automate anything with marketing and AI. Welcome to the show, James. By the end of this episode, what are people going to learn?

• 1:13Speaker 01

  I want to show you how to use AI, specifically Claude code, to create a complete marketing system in one sitting. So we're going to go through how to use skills, how to use some MCPs. I've been playing around with some new tools that I want to show you today. And it's just going to be loaded with value. And at the end, we'll have some stuff to give away here. So I come bearing free gifts on this episode for the listeners and the viewers as well.

• 1:41Greg Isenberg?

  You're an angel. And by doing these tactics, the hope, I assume, is getting more customers, generating more revenue. Lead.

• 1:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, you know, like you open up X, you open up social media and YouTube and there's so much stuff about like building, which is awesome, you know, I love building, I love getting in these tools, but ultimately, we want to figure out how to get customers and generate revenue with the things we're building. And you know, what's really powerful about the systems that we're going to go through today is that they exist in the same place where you're building your products. And you can get your marketing work and your product work done in the same place and leverage skills and MCPs and agents to do it.

• 2:27Greg Isenberg?

  All right, let's, let's, let's give it a shot.

• 2:29Speaker 01

  So I'm going to be hopping around between a couple of different things. First off, I've got sort of a guide that I created for the episode and we're going to start there just to talk about some principles. I want to make this kind of like clear in terms of like frameworks and how I think about this stuff and then we'll get into the nitty gritty. But I think it's important to kind of like set the stage a little bit. So I'm going to share my screen here. Just for a little bit of context, I sat down yesterday for like two hours and recorded myself working in Claude Code. I made a video, I tried to extract everything, I narrated everything with Whisperflow, I

• 3:14Speaker 01

  had Claude Code create a full session transcript where I built a complete marketing system in a sitting. And the whole reason that I'm doing this, you know, we got together, was it last week? It feels like it was already like three weeks ago. We got together last week, we kind of talked about like, hey, what are we working on for the year, what's our big priority? And one of the things that you and the guys told me was, hey, you need to work on your like funnels and your traffic and figuring out ways to, you know, generate consistent signups, results, etc. So I was just really like, you know, meditating on that for a few days and yesterday I sat down and I built this out. And you can, you know, take what I'm doing here and make it your own, I'm just going

• 3:59Speaker 01

  to show you what I did. So. Let's start with this playbook that I created. And this is going to be my lead magnet. And for those that are kind of just getting started or whatever, you build a product, you want to collect an email, you want to nurture a relationship often before you ask for the sale. You and your team are awesome at funnels and lead magnets, Greg. I've learned a lot from you all. So I kind of took some of those learnings into this. And I sat down and recorded a session and I turned that into the lead magnet with Claude code. So oftentimes, creating lead magnets is a pain. Like, I've sat down and I've been like, oh, man, how do I do this? I don't want to write an ebook. I don't want it to sound like AI.

• 4:43Speaker 01

  But I transcribed everything and that's what created this entire guide. So here's what's inside. And remember, used AI to create this. So we're going to start with kind of the foundation, how you need to think to start using tools like Claude code for marketing. We're going to go into some core frameworks. We're going to talk about skills. It's very important to doing this the right way. We're going to talk about how you can stack skills to get really good results out of AI. We're going to go through a few different use cases of how you can do that. We'll cover four niches. We'll do SaaS, e-comm, consulting and agencies, and then info, education, and creators. We'll talk about how to drive traffic into your funnel. We'll show how you can build this.

• 5:27Speaker 01

  And then we'll talk about some ways that you can, you know, get started quickly. So, all right. So I created this entire lead magnet with Claude code. And creating these has always been like a pain for me. I've learned a lot about lead magnets and funnels from you and your team. So, you know, based on what we were chatting about last week, it was time to like, put it into action. So what I did, I recorded a two-hour session of me just like, doing vibe coding and vibe marketing and Claude code. And I took the transcript, I took the logs, and I extracted the frameworks and how I think, how I prompt, how I stack skills together to build marketing assets that actually generate revenue. So we'll cover kind of the foundation, the philosophy, how I think.

• 6:12Speaker 01

  What the tool stack looks like, some core frameworks, how to use skills the right way, some use cases for various niches. I've got like info education creators, consulting and agencies, e-comm and SaaS examples here. We'll talk about how to drive traffic and then we'll go through some, some quick start ideas for how folks can, can get started here. Okay. So most people come into an AI tool and they start prompting and they expect a great output. I spend a lot of time doing research upfront. I use the perplexity MCP. I won't talk about how to set that up today, but it does a great job going out there, finding deep information on your market, who the competitors are, what the angles are that are missing out there that you can go and attack.

• 6:58Speaker 01

  So really three layers here. I start with research, MCPs, perplexity. I crawl websites. I use playwright to open up websites in the browser to get inspiration. And then I kick in the skills. So the skills are actual marketing frameworks. And just a reminder of what skills are, they're essentially the way I think about them are instruction manuals for your agent of choice. So I use them in Claude code and I train them deeply on certain tasks that I want to get done, whether it's direct response, copywriting, or coming up with ad ideas, or writing long form content. So I built 17 of these skills that I use every day. And then lastly, you're kind of like building and putting all these together.

• 7:43Speaker 01

  So the, the tool stack that I use here, I've got my IDE, cursor VS code, Claude code. I've been using Whisperflow to narrate a lot lately. I have my research MCPs and then I use the skills and a couple of other ones to start creating assets. So we're going to go in and just start, start vibing and I'll show you how I use all this stuff in real time and I'll give you a view of some things that I've created for my own funnel. Here we are. So the perplexity MCP, like let's just take a made up use case. Let's say that I want to start like an AI marketing agency or something along those lines.

• 8:26Speaker 01

  So I'm just going to enter a prompt. You know what? Let's narrate this. I'm starting an AI marketing agency and I want you to use the perplexity MCP to go and research who the main players are and give me an idea of what the gaps are in the market.

• 8:42Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah, why would you use your hands like a simpleton?

• 8:46Speaker 01

  Exactly. Once I started using Whisperflow, I feel like I was in the Stone Age before. So this is going to take a little bit of time to go out and do some research. You can see that, you know, it'll use the MCP here with a prompt to go out and find out like who are they targeting? What's the landscape look like? Who are the main players? All of that good stuff. So we'll get that data into our system here and Claude code can use that for context. Again, I'll spend like an hour sometimes doing research with perplexity, crawling websites, getting as much data as I possibly can about my market.

• 9:26Greg Isenberg?

  Which I think a lot of people miss, right?

• 9:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, a lot of people miss that part. They hop in and they just start trying to create stuff and that's like where the AI slop thing comes from, you know? They just go into a tool, they throw a prompt in, they get an output, they throw it out there and then they wonder like, why, why am I not getting good results? They're skipping kind of the boring research step oftentimes. Alright, so normally I would wait for this to like go out and load, but in the meantime, we're just going to fire up like another instance here and we'll keep working as that's doing some research. I'm going to enter in a prompt and we're going to assume we have that research, we can come back to it and I'm going to start using some skills.

• 10:15Speaker 01

  Okay, I'm starting a AI marketing agency targeting boring local businesses that do $2 to $10 million a year in revenue. I feel like they're overlooked. I want you to use the positioning angles skill to find out how we can optimally position our company. Now, for those wondering about skills,

• 10:36Speaker 01

  you can create your own skills. Like, you can say, "Hey, Claude Code, I want to create a skill around, you know, finding an angle for my company, just like I did." Now, what I do is do a very deep research process, using Perplexity, using FireCrawl, using all these data sources to build my skills. I include, like, world-class references in there. I review them by hand to make sure that they are good and they have, like, kind of all my taste built in. You can follow that same process to do it on your own as well for whatever, like, needs that you have. So, right now, it is loading the skill. And I always invoke the skill, like, within my prompt.

• 11:21Speaker 01

  Claude Code can also pick it up if needed, but I typically, like, call it out. All right, so, create an MD file with this and save it. Cool, so we've got a bunch of, like, really good angles right here from our skill. So, again, this has positioning frameworks and things like that built in. And here's what we've got. So, step one, the transformation. So, what does a plumber, HVAC company, etcetera's life look like after working with you? So, it's trying to talk about, like, what's the transformation we can give these companies? And what it came up with is from chasing work to selecting work, from hoping the phone rings to controlling when it rings.

• 12:04Speaker 01

  And, you know, if you've ever been in the service industry, that's a big unlock, when you can turn the dials and do that yourself. So, I think that resonates kind of on a deep, emotional level.

• 12:17Speaker 01

  All right, so, competitive landscape. Like, it's doing all this research on, like, what's the emotional framing and the transformation? What's the competitive landscape look like? What's the unique mechanism here that you can attack? So, for instance, what makes AI marketing for boring businesses different? So, AI responds to leads quickly in minutes, not hours. In home services, first response wins 35% of jobs. Volume without headcount. Not having to pay a traditional agency $5,000 to $10,000 a month, getting weeks of work done in days. These are all things that this positioning angle skill sort of discovers. So the anti-agency, the speed weapon, the boring business specialist, the unsexy goldmine, the revenue ceiling breaker.

• 13:02Speaker 01

  And these are all things that you can also kind of codify into frameworks that you can use down the line in your funnel, which we'll review too. So I'm just gonna have it to pick its best one. Or actually, let's try this. Okay, you're Greg Isenberg. You're an expert at finding positioning angles and niches. So I'm gonna let you spin up a task-based agent for that request and analyze this information and choose the one that is gonna work best for us.

• 13:35Greg Isenberg?

  Just put me out of business live? You're just gonna do that to me? I thought we were friends.

• 13:40Speaker 01

  Well, it only captures a little bit of your brain.

• 13:45Speaker 01

  Just a taste.

• 13:48Greg Isenberg?

  I don't know, because I've got, you know, 700-plus videos.

• 13:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:52Greg Isenberg?

  On my YouTube, so it's got a lot of my brain on there.

• 13:56Speaker 01

  Yeah. So why spin up one of these like task-based agents? So typically, when I have like a conversation going, sometimes I stop after I use a skill and have like a checkpoint, if you will. So I'll spin up a fresh kind of context window within Claude Code with a task-based agent with a specialized job or role to kind of review that research and find me the one that it recommends. I find better results when I do that. All right, so it's doing the task. We've got our research file saved over here as well. Some interesting white space opportunities that it came up with in the perplexity research. So vertical-specific AI agents,

• 14:41Speaker 01

  measurement and outcome guarantees, operational AI transformation, pragmatic implementation, regulated industry compliance, workforce capability building. It's got some competitive but emerging niches that you could go after. SEO, GEO, etc. And then it kind of talks about like what's very saturated and what you should avoid. So that's all super helpful when you're building a marketing funnel.

• 15:09Speaker 01

  Alright, so the winning angle boring money, cool. So essentially, we've got Phase 1 Boring Money Newsletter and Podcasts to celebrate boring businesses making real money. It's ideating like some kind of membership or peer group. And then it looks like, oh, okay, Greg, it uses how you think with ACP here to create a new, a new offer idea, actually.

• 15:37Greg Isenberg?

  There you go. I like it. And also boring money, I do like that name.

• 15:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, not bad.

• 15:43Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah.

• 15:43Speaker 01

  Alright, we want to start an agency though, so we're gonna take the get weeks of work done in days and avoid the traditional agency timelines and costs. Based on that positioning angle decision, I want you to begin to think about some direct response copy concepts that we could place on our landing page. Use the skill.

• 16:08Greg Isenberg?

  And do you often have two instances that you're kind of go to?

• 16:14Speaker 01

  Sometimes I do. You know, I kind of did that here because perplexity was taking some time and I wanted to keep moving. I'll do that at times, like you could have one focus on research and using MCPs, those can fill up like context pretty quickly. So sometimes it helps to keep that in like a split terminal and then do other work side by side. So you can like save research, save files here that you're gathering from like the third-party tools. And then you could use like your skills and sort of execution in a separate terminal.

• 16:50Speaker 01

  So I trained this direct response copy skill on like the greats of copy and direct response. So you know, I looked at like Eugene Schwartz and Claude Hopkins and all of these classic copywriters. And then I sort of updated it for like, you know, today's world, today's internet. And made it somewhat elevated so that it captures kind of like, you know, a solid, a solid brand voice. So it generates like great copywriting, I've found. I've used it for all of my websites and it produces some really good results. So.

• 17:29Speaker 01

  Okay, like, we have some copy here. We're just gonna keep going in the interest of time. But let's see. Use the Playwright MCP to find an agency we would compete with, capture some screenshots of their website.

• 17:46Greg Isenberg?

  So can you, and can you just talk about Playwright and where you use it, how you use it?

• 17:51Speaker 01

  Yep. So Playwright is browser automation. And when you use it in an MCP, it allows Claude Code to go and open up a window and do browser actions. So it can click through it, it can take screenshots of a website. It can get all of the information that you need, say for Design Inspo or something like that. Let's say you're doing like branding or you're doing design. You can easily access websites right here. So in the past, before I used the Playwright MCP, my desktop was littered with screenshots and I'd take a screenshot, I'd drag it into Claude Code or whatever. But this really helps and it feels smooth, kind of like when you're using it with voice, you can just kind of command what you want it to do.

• 18:36Speaker 01

  And you know, we're going out and analyzing competitors right here from a voice prompt.

• 18:41Greg Isenberg?

  And like, is there a cost associated with that?

• 18:44Speaker 01

  Not with Playwright.

• 18:47Greg Isenberg?

  Kind of crazy, right?

• 18:48Speaker 01

  Playwright's like open source and free. Yeah, it's crazy. Like, to me, it's like a foundational MCP to kind of stack with these skills and stuff. And what I found, and what we're gonna do next, actually, we're gonna, we're gonna use this MCP here to capture some screenshots and then we're gonna use the front-end design skill from Anthropic on top of it. So. Yeah, in terms of MCPs, like, I used to have like tons of them set up. And what I realized was that simple's often better. I have Perplexity, I have Firecrawl, I have Playwright. Those are like my main ones. Perplexity does all the research tasks, Firecrawl can scrape websites. They just released this, this tool called Firecrawl Agent.

• 19:33Speaker 01

  So if you're like, hey, go find like all the Facebook pages for boring local businesses and put it into a document. It can go and do those research tasks very accurately and provide the results for you right in Claude Code.

• 19:47Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah, I wanna do like a separate episode on... Just fire crawl and like all the opportunities in building businesses around it. So, you know, people are into it.

• 19:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 19:58Greg Isenberg?

  I'm into it.

• 20:00Speaker 01

  It's an awesome tool. They've no affiliation. They've done a great job. And it's one of my go tos. I use it almost every day.

• 20:09Greg Isenberg?

  You know, you've made it when you can say no affiliation.

• 20:13Speaker 01

  I stole that line from you.

• 20:17Greg Isenberg?

  Well, because then people want to know, right?

• 20:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and especially like videos and podcasts and stuff like just like to make that, make that clear. All right, so it is looking at the screenshots that we captured. It is analyzing them and we're going to get sort of an idea for, for our brand here that we can go and design a landing page for. So here's a competitive intelligence summary. It looked at this like major digital marketing agency servicing these niches. Kind of analyze their messaging, all the copy, the key stats, et cetera.

• 20:55Speaker 01

  So based on, all right, based on the competitive intelligence and our positioning angle and our direct response copy. I'd like you to create a conversion optimized landing page for our agency using the front end design skill.

• 21:13Speaker 01

  So again, like we've, we've context loaded here. Like this is the, the very basic of the framework that, that I, that I use every day. And I've tried, I've been trying to like capture the, the thought process here and kind of codify it. So again, I cast like a wide net. I use perplexity. I come up with some unique positioning angles. I'll go and look at some individual competitors. I'll capture elements of their website, whether it's screenshots or copy or whatever. And then I'll fire up something like the front end design skill to, to create a landing page. So we're doing this, this live. I'll also show, show you how I did this for my entire funnel as well. If, if people are interested in seeing that.

• 21:59Greg Isenberg?

  I mean, I'm interested, so.

• 22:01Speaker 01

  Cool.

• 22:01Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah, that'd be cool.

• 22:03Speaker 01

  All right, we'll do it. All right, so it's got a design direction and, you know, we talked about this on a past episode, the front-end design skill, but I have to shout it out again. This is from Anthropic. You know, if you've ever done any like vibe coding or working with AI, you know the patterns, the purple gradients, the rounded corners, the emojis, all of that. This is a skill or an instruction that helps to prevent all of the sort of like AI elements in your design. And you can use it for websites, for landing pages, for applications, and it really does a fantastic job. Like every time I use it, I'm pretty wild by it. So I'll create a conversion optimized landing page for boring money with a distinctive

• 22:46Speaker 01

  anti-corporate aesthetic that stands apart from competitors like Scorpion. So we want to stand out in the market. We've got a unique angle. We're going to have our own unique style, which is super cool. All right, so while that is cooking here, I'll show you the live versions that I've been shipping for the vibe marketer. So just give me a second, I'll open up my landing page.

• 23:16Greg Isenberg?

  I think what's cool about all this stuff is like, before this stuff existed, you kind of created a business in a silo. And now you're, it was a lot more art back then, and now it's a lot more science. I think like what a lot of people want to do is they want to, they want to launch stuff that's going to have a high probability of it working.

• 23:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:36Greg Isenberg?

  So like, the fact that it uses the perplexity MCP, the fact that you're doing like real competitive research, the fact that you're like automating that and you have like the power of a $350 billion company, Anthropic.

• 23:50Greg Isenberg?

  You know, behind you is what fires me up.

• 23:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so here are, while this is working and designing, here are a couple of examples that I'm actually using and designing some campaigns around as we speak. So I created like, you know, this landing page using the front-end design skill. People come here and then they get this playbook when they sign up. So again, like I did all this research kind of on like, hey, what are the opportunities within the AI and marketing space? So for each of those angles that I came up with, I created like a separate landing page. So I've got one for agency owners and consultants.

• 24:37Speaker 01

  I've got one for, you know, businesses that want to save money. I've got businesses or a landing page for folks that want to like take on the work on their own, like founders. So you can create these landing pages just with like one prompt based on the positioning frameworks. And then you can drive traffic into those and you'll see a much higher conversion rate since those are dialed to the exact audience that you're targeting.

• 25:05Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah, I think that's like the big unlock is like, you know, in the past, we would create like a couple landing pages and it would be a lot more artistic, like I was saying. But now it's like, no, we can, you can do 100 landing pages.

• 25:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:20Greg Isenberg?

  Right?

• 25:21Speaker 01

  Exactly. You could create 100 landing pages and I'll also show you, you can create 100 ads right here from Claude Code. So that's a big thing that I want to show you today because it gave me definitely like a wow moment when I was playing around with it earlier this morning.

• 25:37Greg Isenberg?

  Okay, but are these ads like AI slop looking ads? Or are they actually like good looking gorgeous ads?

• 25:44Speaker 01

  You tell me. You want me to, you want to see it right now while it's working?

• 25:49Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah, I want to see it.

• 25:50Speaker 01

  All right. So I saw a viral tweet from a company called Remotion. And Remotion creates videos and edits videos in Claude Code. And I was like, wow, that looks incredible. I hate trying to create videos. So let's just watch this and you tell me what you think.

• 26:23Greg Isenberg?

  Ooh, we created a book too.

• 26:27Greg Isenberg?

  It's a nice touch.

• 26:29Speaker 01

  What do you think?

• 26:30Greg Isenberg?

  I mean, obviously it needs music.

• 26:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, it needs music.

• 26:34Greg Isenberg?

  It needs music, but like from a visual standpoint, it looks great.

• 26:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, and you can create it in the terminal, you know?

• 26:42Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah.

• 26:42Speaker 01

  So there's like a command, if you look for remotion on X, like they shared kind of a a free GitHub file that has like all their prompts and stuff. I just used that to create my own version of it. But like it can have custom fonts and brand colors and copy. I made that book image in Nano Banana Pro, removed the background in Canva, threw it into the terminal and then it was able to go and implement that right on the video. So it also can create all like all kinds of different sizes and versions and all that. Like let's say you're creating a campaign for Meta and you need like landscape videos,

• 27:23Speaker 01

  you need story format, you need like square formats. It can, it can do all of that programmatically. And you could create like 100 videos with literally with one prompt.

• 27:33Greg Isenberg?

  At a cost of?

• 27:35Speaker 01

  I didn't even subscribe yet. So that was free, what you just saw there.

• 27:42Greg Isenberg?

  At a cost of $0.00.

• 27:44Speaker 01

  It's, it's mind blowing, mind blowing. Alright, so let's see here. I think we, so Playwright was running to kind of capture like what Claude Code created so that it could like kind of self review it. So as soon as it's done sort of looking at it, we'll open up the link and have a look at our landing page.

• 28:07Greg Isenberg?

  By the way, I used to hate like the output in a terminal. But now I'm like kind of obsessed with it. Like I love how simple it is.

• 28:17Speaker 01

  I know. And I tried to, like if you use VS code or whatever, there's like a, there's like a Claude code plugin that kind of turns it into like what you might feel online if you use Claude or something like that. But I don't know, man. I like this terminal so much. I came right back to this. All right. So we're gonna open our link and we've got a landing page. So I'm going to reshare my screen. We've got, we've got the copy. We've got the positioning here and we've got like a front end design skill landing page created. So you fired enough marketing agencies. Try the one that delivers in days, not months.

• 29:01Speaker 01

  AI-powered marketing for plumbers, HVAC roofers and electricians doing $2 to $10 million. See what we'd build for you.

• 29:08Speaker 01

  And yeah, it kind of gets like down to the nitty gritty, like talks about the differentiators. So here's what it looks like for most trade businesses, the problem, the difference, the new way, kind of how you stand out, like everything you get, lead response system, complete landing page, review generation, follow-up automations. You know, traditional agencies, 68 weeks, $15,000 to $25,000. Boring money, five days, a fraction of the cost. So why boring businesses? Within the direct response copy skill, I've got this sort of like founder story section. So, you know, every marketing agency wants to work with the next Uber. The AI started the DTC brand with a $50 million raise.

• 29:51Speaker 01

  You're doing $4 million in revenue with 15% net margins and zero debt. You're the most financially healthy business they'll ever meet and they don't know how to talk to you. So I don't know. I really like some of the language here. I feel like it would resonate.

• 30:05Greg Isenberg?

  100%. This looks great. It doesn't look vibe-coded at all. Doesn't have that like purple vibe-coded

• 30:11Speaker 01

  Right.

• 30:11Greg Isenberg?

  glow or anything like that.

• 30:13Speaker 01

  Right.

• 30:14Greg Isenberg?

  And I just feel, it's like a very confident page.

• 30:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. It's got confidence, doesn't feel like your typical stuff. And of course, you could go back and forth and do a million different like tweaks here if you wanted to. We're just kind of going with one shots to kind of demo how to do MCPs, how to use skills to kind of get to something that'll convert. So let's go back to Cursor and we have our landing page. So what's next? You know, when people like come to our landing page or whatever, what do we want them to do? So I'm gonna, I'm gonna use another skill here. Actually, here's another cool thing.

• 30:58Speaker 01

  Use the orchestrator skill. I don't know what to do next. I know I want to convert visitors that come here. Maybe there's like a lead magnet or something like that we can do, but I'm kind of confused as to what I should do next. So a lot of people don't know what to do, but the good thing is you can also create skills that help you decide and orchestrate tasks for you across different skills. So in my skills, I have like an orchestrator skill that, you know, helps to kind of prioritize and ask clarifying questions around like what to do. So again, to me, this is just like a case of like the barriers just dissolving, you know?

• 31:36Speaker 01

  Like you don't even know, have to know what to do. You don't even have to know how to do all this stuff. You just need to create the right skills in your environment and AI can guide you through the process.

• 31:47Greg Isenberg?

  So walk me through when I should use the orchestrator skill, like when I'm confused.

• 31:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, like when you're confused or let's say you don't even know where to start. Like, you know, when I kick things off here, I'm like, okay, I need the direct response skill. I need a positioning angle skill, stuff like that. If you start with like an orchestration skill, you know, that can help you decide which ones to use and things. And again, like, I'm not Pitching like the skills I created here, you don't have to use mine. You can, there's free skills out there, there's skill directories. You can, you know, search online and find skills. But if you open up Claude Code and you say, hey, I've got a bunch of skills here. I want you to analyze all the files and create a master orchestration skill to help me decide what I should do and which ones I should use in my project.

• 32:38Speaker 01

  That's a really good tip to help you sort of navigate your way through here. Here's what the orchestration skill here, so let's map out where you are and what you're missing, what you have. You have positioning, you've got a brand voice, you've got a landing page. What you're missing, email sequences and a traffic strategy. So this is actually exactly what I was going to, you know, call directly into Claude Code, but the orchestration skill knows the next step. It says without a lead magnet, you lose them forever. So what skill's next? We have a lead magnet skill. Let's see what, uh, what it does. I can run the lead magnet skill right now to generate three to five concepts. Run it, give me concepts and pick the best one.

• 33:20Speaker 01

  Backing up, this is how I found my playbook idea, uh, using this lead magnet skill. Like, you know, it threw out workshop ideas, it threw out email sequences, it threw out PDFs and stuff like that. And I was like, just jamming with Claude Code. What's an easy way we could get this created? So I decided to just record myself working, transcribe everything, uh, and compile it into one of the recommendations that it came up with.

• 33:47Greg Isenberg?

  So cool.

• 33:49Speaker 01

  The lead magnet skill's running. Uh, the orchestration skill gave a couple of ideas already. So it's going to pick one and then create the landing page section and the email sequence to support it. I mean, it knows what to do, it knows what skills to invoke. This is the magic of kind of arming Claude Code with the right context and the right skills to do the job.

• 34:11Greg Isenberg?

  So are skills underrated or overrated?

• 34:15Speaker 01

  Well, I will say that not all skills are created equal, for one. I think that if you are an expert in something, there's a unique opportunity to kind of like download your brain into a skill. And there's a big difference between like, let's say Greg, if you created a skill on audience growth and audience building, there's stuff in there that I don't care who's using AI to try to build the skill, they won't be able to capture it, you know? So I think like, a lot of skills get people partially there, but that last 10 to 20% expert perspective that can get built in makes a massive difference in

• 34:57Speaker 01

  the output. That's just what I've seen so far. So I think they're underrated, like honestly, like they've been a game changer for me.

• 35:06Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah.

• 35:07Speaker 01

  So Lead Magnet Concepts, we've got the Response Time Revenue Calculator, which is an interactive calculator that shows trade business owners exactly how much revenue they're leaving on the table due to slow response times. Concept two, What Your Agency Won't Tell You Expose PDF. Concept three, the five-minute marketing audit, a self-assessment checklist. And then we've got the Boring Business Marketing Playbook. I kind of like the audit checklist. It kind of feels like a tool and sort of like gets them committed in a way. What do you think?

• 35:42Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah, I agree. I think I'm always looking at stuff like this and I'm like, trying to make it tools, basically. Like the perceived value goes way up.

• 35:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, we're thinking alike with Claude here. Based on the skill, it also recommended the five-minute marketing audit. It scored it, gave us the reasons why. So let's see what happens. Yeah, build the audit and put it on the landing page. Make it a modal in the bottom right part of the screen that someone can click and open up in a new browser window.

• 36:20Greg Isenberg?

  If you didn't know that, what you could have done, I guess, is use the Playwright MCP to be like, "Hey, you know, I think I want to add this tool. I'm not sure where. Go and check, you know, other competitor websites to see where they post it," that sort of thing.

• 36:38Speaker 01

  Absolutely. You could do that. You know, if you, if you do some research on, let's say, conversion rate optimization, or, "Hey, how are people using lead magnets on their website?" or something like that, you could get a number of suggestions. Yeah, that comes from kind of like experience, like, you know, seeing the little opt-in boxes like at the bottom, or like a hello bar, or like an exit modal pop-up, or a dedicated section in the landing page. You can do any one of those. Yes, you can use AI to kind of like research how to integrate it as well.

• 37:14Greg Isenberg?

  Or if you had some sort of lead magnet, or CRO, conversion rate optimization skill, you could invoke that, right?

• 37:22Speaker 01

  Exactly. Yeah. And to do that, you could say, "Hey, Perplexity, go do deep research on lead magnets and conversion rate optimization," or whatnot, compile all the learnings, and then you can say, "Hey, Claude, create a skill based on this." All right, so we're building it now. And then after we build this lead magnet, we're going to get to sort of like the traffic generation part. So you've got a landing page, you've got a website, you've got unique positioning. It looks good, it feels good, it sounds good. You've got this mechanism to collect email addresses, and then we're gonna, we're gonna figure out how we nurture those leads, and we're gonna figure out how to drive traffic into the whole system. And again, complete marketing system, so far,

• 38:06Speaker 01

  we're at, I don't know, 54 minutes or something like that. And, you know, typically, this would take a lot longer, or it would cost a lot of money to hire an agency to do all this for you.

• 38:18Greg Isenberg?

  And who knows if it would even be good, too, right?

• 38:21Speaker 01

  For sure. For sure. Yeah, and I mean, this lets you add your taste and your perspective on your business into it. You don't have to go and like hop on a Zoom call, and then wait three days and get like a deck or something like that, that you then have to discuss and go back through. It's like, it just cuts out the junk and lets you get to work and ship stuff.

• 38:42Greg Isenberg?

  So what's happening right now?

• 38:46Speaker 01

  So right now, we are implementing our Lead Magnet little modal onto the landing page. And that should be ready here shortly. And as soon as that's ready, we'll pop it open and we'll have a look. The old compacting conversation.

• 39:07Speaker 01

  Always fun.

• 39:08Greg Isenberg?

  Look at those tokens just rack up.

• 39:11Speaker 01

  I know. It used to be really scary when that would happen. My terminal would start like shaking. It looked like an earthquake was happening in there. And then sometimes it would like shut down and I'd be like, no. But they've done a lot to kind of like improve that I've noticed over the past couple of months.

• 39:28Greg Isenberg?

  Well, yeah, they're making money.

• 39:30Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 39:31Greg Isenberg?

  It's smarter them to call it tokens, not like dollars and cents.

• 39:35Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah, there's still this like cognitive gap. Yeah. Oh, wait, tokens are money? But you know, to be honest, like everyone always asks me like, how much do you spend on a Claude code? It must be crazy. And I just have, I have a max subscription. It's $200 a month and I've never run out of tokens.

• 39:54Greg Isenberg?

  There you go. And you're constantly vibing.

• 39:57Speaker 01

  Constantly. I probably, I've probably messaged you like three times a day with different stuff I'm making in Slack.

• 40:05Greg Isenberg?

  Much to the chagrin of your wife.

• 40:07Speaker 01

  Exactly, exactly.

• 40:09Greg Isenberg?

  Whisper flow, whisper flow, probably she, she might not appreciate it too. Cause you're like working from home and you're just like constantly talking to Claude.

• 40:17Speaker 01

  She's like, who are you talking to?

• 40:20Speaker 01

  And she's like, just completely outside of like tech and AI and stuff. So she thinks I'm like the weirdest, weirdest person on the planet.

• 40:32Speaker 01

  And then like, you know, we'll be doing stuff around the house and then you'll have this running in the background or something. Be coming over and checking my laptop and hitting a prompt again or whatever. It's a. It's a whole different lifestyle nowadays.

• 40:45Greg Isenberg?

  Do you ever use Claude on or Claude Code on the phone, iOS?

• 40:53Speaker 01

  I don't. I tried to do it one time. So I used Claude, the Claude app, and you can access the same sort of like tools from Claude Desktop in the app. And Claude Code there could access like existing repositories and things like that. But a lot of the work that I do is oftentimes like knowledge work and things like that. So it was nothing that was in like an existing repo and I couldn't just keep working. But I've seen people use like Claude, C L A W E D.

• 41:27Greg Isenberg?

  E D.

• 41:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, E D, where they're, you know, working with Claude Code and WhatsApp and all kinds of other tools. But I don't know, I feel like I already spend enough time with Claude Code. I don't really need it everywhere I'm chatting.

• 41:41Greg Isenberg?

  I recently chatted with Boris, the maker of Claude Code, and he was like, yeah, you should basically be using it on your phone too. Like I'm for like, you know, if you want to, if you're a real Claude Code maxi, you're doing it on your phone too.

• 41:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 41:59Greg Isenberg?

  So something to think about. I'm thinking about it.

• 42:01Speaker 01

  I may, I may have to try it. Alright, so we've got our little audit button down here. I clicked it and here's our audit or our assessment. So find the leaks costing you jobs, answer 15 questions, get your score instantly. So this is a really good little lead magnet idea. Do you respond to new leads within 10 minutes? I'll just say no. Do you have any automated response for after hours? No. Can a potential customer book a consultation from your website? Yes. Follow-up system. After sending a quote, do you follow up three times automatically? No. Do you have a system where you engage leads? No. Do you know your quote to close rate? Sure. Reviews. So I mean, this is pretty comprehensive here, you know?

• 42:44Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah. Well, not only is it comprehensive, it works. The alternative would have also have been setting up a tally or type form, paying them, you know, could be a thousand dollars a year, who knows?

• 43:01Greg Isenberg?

  And this is just like done, optimized, the copy is dialed. Like I'm a copy person. Like I'm reading this and I'm like, yes, yes, yes.

• 43:11Speaker 01

  So want us to fix these gaps? We can build the whole system. Landing pages, lead response, follow-up automation, review generation in five days. See what we build. Book a call. That's your call link. And then you can download the full report that builds your email list right there. So, good stuff. So, the next question is like, I guess, how do you drive traffic into the funnel? And let's use a couple of skills to see how we would approach that. Okay, I like our funnel. Now it's time to think about how we drive traffic into it. First thing I want you to do is use the keyword research skill to identify a programmatic SEO

• 43:53Speaker 01

  opportunity targeting local markets. And I also want you to come up with an ad strategy using the DTC ad skill. So, if you don't know what that stuff means, or whatever, you know, you can ask Claude Code to help you do some keyword research, or whatever. And keyword research, obviously, is people searching for, you know, certain terms on Google. You want to show up through good content, high-quality website, etc. So, I'm a partner in like a Boring Local business. We've done videos on that and stuff. When I built that website, to be honest with you, I didn't go and look at like, exact volume and like, you know, how much people are paying to bid on these keywords and all that.

• 44:38Speaker 01

  Like, you can easily kind of get lost in the information there. So, I just wanted a place to go from zero to one and a place to start, which is what this particular skill helps me do. You can build your own to figure out how to go from zero to one like that as well. But this is essentially going to understand like what we're doing, what we're building here on Boring Money. And then it's going to give us like, a full sort of like, pipeline of content ideas that we can create. And remember, we already have like, a brand voice, a unique angle, an ICP, a target market, a website. So, we can use a content skill to generate that content and then push it right onto the website here to start ranking in Google Search.

• 45:23Speaker 01

  So yeah, I mean, it's crazy like one place, one view, one terminal like, you know, when, when you and I first started talking about vibe marketing, Greg, like this kind of stuff wasn't, wasn't really possible, you know? And I think what we've been seeing is sort of like the evolution in real time, you know? Back in, I don't know, February of 2025, the whole thing, we were, we were building N8N workflows and, and agents and things that way. And there was a lot of friction, like great tool, but it was hard to sort of like, you know, scale those activities up, chat vibe, use things like skills and MCPs or whatever. And those were very like deterministic in a sense.

• 46:08Speaker 01

  And, um, you know, then the, the vibe coding stuff started picking up. And then obviously the, the Claude code renaissance. And I feel like Claude code is really like what makes vibe marketing, just a hundred percent like a real thing. Like I've seen people say like, oh, vibe marketing, what's that? It's like N8N workflows? No, like you can deploy complete marketing systems and campaigns right from the terminal, just how you would vibe code any product. So that's like the big unlock is, is learning tools like this. Just kind of like, I see it in the, the, the community as well. Like this is the topic everyone is kind of wanting to, wanting to learn. All right.

• 46:50Greg Isenberg?

  Well, it's so accessible, right?

• 46:52Speaker 01

  So accessible, yeah. There's, there's a little bit of friction when you get started, like the terminal looks a little scary. And, you know, things like that. But once you get in there and realize, oh, this is just like any other like LLM. I can ask it for help, it can guide me. You start chipping away bit by bit and, uh, and getting more and more comfortable. All right, so we have, uh, comprehensive strategies here to get organic and paid traffic. Uh, we've got a bunch of ideas, uh, for how to build out the website, um, how to develop, uh, content at scale, and also, uh, how to create ads that will perform.

• 47:32Speaker 01

  So quick wins, uh, sort of synthesize where we should get started for organic traffic. Picked out some markets that based on Claude code's understanding could be underserved. And then we have a complete ad strategy as well. So we'll make a couple of assets here.

• 47:51Speaker 01

  Use the SEO content skill to develop a page for a website based on your top quick win opportunity and use Remotion to create a video ad using our, our brand style.

• 48:08Greg Isenberg?

  And you need to like install Remotion?

• 48:11Speaker 01

  You do, you need to install it. Again, if you, if you go to X, Remotion posted this video that has their, it has like a free GitHub repository of how they built the video and has a video there. You can see kind of how they did it. You can get that link to the repo, you can throw it in here and it'll install all the packages for you and, and you can essentially vibe create videos just how you would anything else, which is pretty cool. All right. Um, let's see here. So we're setting up a page

• 48:52Speaker 01

  and you know what? I'm going to go ahead and throw this command in here for Remotion. I had it in my other window from doing some things earlier.

• 49:03Greg Isenberg?

  Yep.

• 49:04Speaker 01

  So in this, when I look at ads, I really like to analyze like the direct to consumer e-comm market. They're pumping out the most ads, doing the most testing, spending a lot of money and they're very good at finding like hooks, angles and formats that drive conversion. So if I'm working on like a boring business or I'm working on like, you know, an educational product or something like that, I always find inspo from, from DTC and I try to repurpose that toward, you know, the thing that, that I'm selling.

• 49:38Greg Isenberg?

  Cool. And a lot of people don't know this about you, but you've spent 50, a hundred million dollars plus on ads, right?

• 49:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, well over a hundred million. Uh, and that's kind of like how I got my start into like growth marketing and all that. Just like kind of being behind the scenes, running a bunch of campaigns for different companies and things of that nature. Um, so yeah, that's how I got my start.

• 50:02Greg Isenberg?

  So guy who spends, spent a hundred plus million in ads with large teams, large companies and also fast growing startups is using Claude code to build his ad campaigns?

• 50:17Speaker 01

  Yep, exactly.

• 50:20Speaker 01

  Alright, so we're gonna build that landing page. Yeah, you know, like, there... You remember how it was a few years ago? Like, trying to get creatives for your campaigns was such a pain. Designers that you would find, they didn't understand what made good ads work. Finding a conversion-focused ad designer was like finding a unicorn. It was always very difficult to find. Creating videos was expensive and painful, you know, things like that.

• 50:56Speaker 01

  I still don't feel like... I mean, I know people are scaling up, like, UGC ads that are created with AI.

• 51:05Speaker 01

  I personally haven't done that yet. I don't know if it's quite there. I could be totally wrong. Maybe I can test it. But I think for things like static images, I mean, you can extract the frameworks that companies are running by going through the Facebook Ad Library, or there are a number of tools out there. And then you can use Nano Banana Pro to create a few statics. Of course, I have skills that I use to create images right here in Claude Code. I call on Glyph through the MCP to access Nano Banana Pro. And I've done a bunch of research into letting Claude Code create optimal image prompts.

• 51:49Speaker 01

  And it does a really good job, kind of programmatically, creating different variations for me. You could also use Glyph to call video models. So if you wanted to make a video ad or whatever. And then Remotion does a really good job at creating those sort of like product demo-style ads like we looked at with the one that I created. Okay, so we created a SEO page. We set up Remotion with that one command. Again, like, you can set that up easily. I haven't... It's free. They have a full kind of Gist that shows their prompts and stuff like that. That's the one I used to make the one that I demoed for you.

• 52:33Speaker 01

  We won't go through and like completely dial that in, but you can sort of vibe back and forth with it until you get to the output that you like. But a big shortcut, like if you just want to go from zero to one and get a campaign live, you can make your landing page, you can get your ad creative, you can do everything right here. You can create like 20 different landing page variations, 20 different ads, like, you know, you could become a testing machine in a sitting.

• 52:59Greg Isenberg?

  Can and should, even if you have an agency or whatever, or you want to hire an agency, you should start by doing this because you're going to dial it in yourself. You're going to really understand yourself by doing this.

• 53:10Speaker 01

  Exactly. And like, this is the same thing I'm doing like in real time to try to launch. Like this morning, I was making that video ad. I was building the funnel, I was dialing in that lead magnet, and I'm going to go launch a funnel, hopefully today, pending the email sequences that I need to do next. So, you know, this is what I'm doing and hopefully people can, you know, just kind of follow along and do it themselves. All right, so it's making our video right now, trying to capture our brand style. And, you know, what I noticed here is so far, you know, with ReMotion, you do have to go, you know, prompt back and forth a little bit.

• 53:54Speaker 01

  So I'm not expecting like a crazy result from this one shot here, but again, more of kind of a demo.

• 54:03Greg Isenberg?

  You're not expecting like a Super Bowl ad?

• 54:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 54:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's right.

• 54:09Greg Isenberg?

  But you can ping pong your way to something that could have legs.

• 54:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. The one that I showed earlier, like I'm going to run that in a campaign. Like I'm going to use that.

• 54:25Speaker 01

  I used their GitHub link and went back and forth for about 30 minutes to get that. So when it's done, it'll open up ReMotion in a browser window, which is pretty cool. So it creates the ad and then it'll show you all the variations there and we'll have a look at that here in a moment when it's ready. We have some things to check out and let's open them up. All right, so we've got sort of like a basic animated ad here. Again, we could go back and vibe back and forth to kind of get to the output we want. But for getting going or whatever, being able to create it from the terminal,

• 55:11Speaker 01

  pretty handy little workflow that you can use.

• 55:18Speaker 01

  All right, let's see if it created any others. So it created like a square variation, a vertical video. You can get a landscape one as well. And then we also have our SEO optimized page on the website created too. So again, this used sort of some keyword research processes from Claude Code. I like how it integrated our lead magnet on this page. If somebody searches HVAC in Phoenix or HVAC marketing for Phoenix, like this will pop up, got the landing page, et cetera. You know, there's still work that has to be done to get these pages indexed,

• 56:03Speaker 01

  to make sure it's really good to drive links to the site. I don't want to make it sound like, hey, all you have to do is like create this stuff and start showing up in Google. That's not the case, but producing high quality content on the website, targeted towards search terms relevant to the business is like a step that you should definitely do. And it's worth it to do that work from Claude.

• 56:29Greg Isenberg?

  Looks good.

• 56:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, so yeah, one more view of that video that I made just to show you like if you do go back and forth with it and if you do use that GitHub file that the Remotion team provided, like you can create something pretty cool, pretty dialed, that is pretty solid to run an ad campaign on or at least test videos if you want.

• 56:54Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah, 100%.

• 56:58Greg Isenberg?

  And now that I've seen like the first version of that other version, the boring money version, like I can see like kinda how you just like made it better and made it better and made it better.

• 57:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. And it's the same process as like vibe coding. You can take screenshots of it. You can throw it into Claude Code because it generates these using like using code. So it kinda writes the files and it'll use the CSS and the fonts that you have available in your project. So yeah, next step, I would create an email sequence. I would deploy all this probably onto, you know, Vercel or something like that, not to get too technical. But, you know, I broke down, again, like I recorded myself doing this for two hours and created sort of like all the thought processes, the frameworks, how to stack these things together, prompts people can use, how to create some skills that are useful.

• 57:50Speaker 01

  And, you know, we'll give that to the listeners and I hope it helps them sort of action some of this in their company.

• 57:58Greg Isenberg?

  Hundred percent. Yeah, I'll include that in the show notes, in the description for people to go and click that link, get started, get their hands dirty. And, you know, thank you for, for sharing some sauce, showing your workflow. I definitely learned a few things today. So I know other people for sure have as well. And dude, I can't thank you enough. And I'm curious what people think in the comment section and what we should have James back on the boring marketer next time. So you're one of my favorite people to have on the podcast. So thanks again for coming on and.

• 58:36Speaker 01

  Thanks for having me. Yeah, appreciate you, Greg. Thanks for having me. Talk to you soon.

• 58:40Greg Isenberg?

  Later.