Labrinth: The Musical Genius Behind Euphoria

Labrinth is a singer, rapper, producer, and composer behind HBO’s Euphoria. Achieving success at a young age, he gave it all up to go to America and start from the bottom all over again. This is his story. A true independent spirit, after getting frustrated with the corporate demands of Simon Cowell’s record label, he gave up his life in the UK where he had number one albums and an A list life to move to LA, where he was totally unknown. Labrinth: Instagram - http://bit.ly/3AvQyfI Twitter - http://bit.ly/3i2O02g Follow me: https://beacons.ai/diaryofaceo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  My tour manager came backstage and he was like, "You know you almost killed someone today." Like, literally, it's like blackouts.

• 0:12Speaker 00

  "Let's do this." I signed to Simon Cowell because my manager at the time was like, "It's a bigger check. You're in a label that is gonna prioritize you because you're not like anything on their label." This business comes around it and it says, "We can turn this into money." But I allowed someone else to tell me what my next direction is.

• 0:29Speaker 00

  Everyone was like, "Be a star, have an entourage and who are you gonna go out with?" And I was like, "What do you mean?" "Oh, maybe Sherlock Holmes." And I was like, "What? None of this shit means anything to me." I just was like, "I'm not enjoying this." I didn't ask myself what I wanted because I was always accommodating what everyone else wanted.

• 0:44Steven Bartlett?

  When did you realise that something had to change?

• 0:46Speaker 00

  Well, that's the deep one now. I was at a place where I couldn't actually talk to people because I had social anxiety. My manager was being weird, our relationship was breaking down. I had no confidence. I felt suppressed.

• 0:59Speaker 00

  I got diagnosed with ADHD. When I read about what it's like, I was like, "Oh shit, it makes sense." I can't even hold a conversation with someone.

• 1:07Steven Bartlett?

  Was it prohibiting your life?

• 1:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, 100% still does it today. But I've learnt to be aware of it. "Let's just do something. Just let it go."

• 1:16Speaker 00

  Euphoria was the first time I felt people actually heard the rawest form of lab. Getting to that point was true freedom.

• 1:25Steven Bartlett?

  What are your goals now?

• 1:27Speaker 00

  The most important thing in my career is to...

• 1:39Steven Bartlett?

  Lab, if this podcast has taught me one thing, it's that we're all created by and defined and shaped and moulded by our earliest context. So when you think about your earliest context and how that shaped who you are today and the person you went on to be, I'm talking about the like, deep characteristics you have, the deep passions you have and all those things that were nurtured in those earliest years. What is your early context? What do I need to know about that context to understand you?

• 2:10Speaker 00

  Well, that's the deep one now. I... The first thing that comes to my mind is church. Um, family was super religious, not always in the best way. Um, and not that I don't think there's anything wrong with religion. It just was, it was wrapped in a lot of things. Um, that I don't always think is healthy. But um, a lot of, there was a lot of beauty as well in terms of music, um, worship. And for me, in worship was work with energy, like seeing somebody connect with an energy or taking them from their body with a sound or with an, with a um, with connection in a church.

• 2:55Speaker 00

  Like seeing that happen like every Sunday can do something to you and you kind of learn from it. Um, so that was always beautiful and just watching my family, cause they're like, I don't know how this happened, but just everyone can sing or play an instrument or they have some kind of musical talent that was super inspiring to be around. Um, and then having a massive family as well was, I think, uh, heavily shaped me because I always say this to people about standing in the middle of my house when I was, I don't know, ten, I would have my sisters upstairs singing like R and B records. My brother downstairs with his friends playing like Yellowjackets jazz music and like,

• 3:39Speaker 00

  I don't know, like um, weather report. And then my other brother ciphering in a room with his friends, rapping and um, banging on an MPC drum machine. And like being in the middle of that was like, I wanna do all of them. Um, and like it was just mad, like insanely inspiring just to be around all of these big personalities, um, that even today when I make music, I'm like, would, would my sister like this, would my brother like this, would my family feel this?

• 4:12Steven Bartlett?

  Um. Where did that come from? That musical household, who inspired that? Parents, grandparents?

• 4:18Speaker 00

  It's weird, cause on my mum's side, I think it's the church, honestly, cause my mum and dad were both in in the church, um, and they both went to the same church. My grandad was a reverend at um, this uh, the church and his uh, my aunties and uncles used to sing around uh, and and that kind of do praise and worship and and do like a circuit around the country. And that kind of passed down to us um, on my mother's side. And then on my dad's side, he's a guitarist. He's uh, well, rest in peace, he's a, he was a guitarist, he was a bass player. Um, and his whole family were also in the musical side of the church. So be like my mum

• 4:58Speaker 00

  and her family singing and my dad in the kind of uh, um, playing with the musicians. So it was just kind of like always always, it was always around when I was a kid. And I think music has been like, I guess like my, the other sibling that I didn't know was there, you know, that um, that was related to us. And I think, um, yeah, I think it was between Christianity and thing, that was the beginning to me. Because my house was very, very heavily bordered around church, everything like literally, we couldn't watch uh, TV and if uh, without like uh, the TV been turned off when somebody was kissing. So like romance was like, oh, whoa, that's of the devil. And then when I went to school, that's when

• 5:44Speaker 00

  the, it was like the kaleidoscope went wild and it was like, oh shit. All of this stuff exists. Um, I really did feel like that when I was a kid. I was, cause it was so sheltered. Going to central London was like going to another country to me. Like, that's how sheltered it was. And it was like home, church. And then everything else around that was like I'm in a whole other world. So growing up for me was just like discovering this other other universe or other dimension, if that makes sense.

• 6:14Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 6:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 6:15Steven Bartlett?

  What was your, what was your relationship like with your mother and father?

• 6:18Speaker 00

  Woo!

• 6:21Speaker 00

  My mother was, um, like I was saying, the church was beautiful but also toxic. And my mother was, um, she kind of shunned from the church because she had, uh, children out of wedlock. And, um, like I'm saying, it's very heavily guarded and boarded. So she was, um, she was kind of disowned by a lot of, uh, our family. And, um, she, she had moved from North London to Hackney. And from then on, I didn't, I don't think I saw my grandparents for years, like, um, after that, like after she was kind of put out. One thing that happens in Jamaica is because of, a lot of them came over here to the land of milk and honey.

• 7:05Speaker 00

  Um, with race, anything white was better. So my mom was one of the darkest of her family and she grew up with, um, being kind of very, uh, a lot of her life was very shunned. Like it was like, you're, you're the darker one of the family. So, um, don't, don't shoot for the, don't shoot for the stars. Just, just stay on the ground, you know?

• 7:26Steven Bartlett?

  Um hum.

• 7:27Speaker 00

  And so because she was around a lot of that energy, when she was on her own, she kind of, it's like she made a promise to herself to not do that to her kids. And so growing up with my mom, it was very super supportive.

• 7:40Steven Bartlett?

  Really?

• 7:41Speaker 00

  Um, she used to teach us, my mom, like I was saying, it was very sheltered around, uh, uh, and very religious. She wasn't taught because women were supposed to be in the house, women supposed to clean and do all this. Have a husband and your husband will go and make the money and do all that stuff around it. So she, she came out of this kind of, uh, uh, community and had no understanding of taxes, no understanding how to keep a house, no understanding of the business, no- nothing. She didn't know anything. And so she literally had to learn from scratch and. Would study psychology and study transactional analysis and study willpower. And she would teach us and sit us all around the table and be like, what is willpower?

• 8:25Speaker 00

  And I remember, I remember like vividly, like nine of us sitting around the table. And at the time, we're like, mom, come on, this is so boring. Why do we have to do this? But she would kind of pull us into it and then we would end up having these big conversations about things that we just, we never understood or never got. And she just wanted to make sure she could give us something because she had no money and she was just kind of surviving. She, she nurtured our musi- uh, music, she nurtured our creativity. And when she was coming up, that wasn't nurtured, it was shut up, sit down and don't get in our way. And that was her upbringing. It wasn't just my grandparents, that was very much common in a lot of the parents of the sixties. It was just like children are to be seen and not heard, you know?

• 9:09Speaker 00

  And don't, don't embarrass me in front of my friends. That was very much that. And then with my dad, my dad was, he was very much abused when he was a kid by um, his grandparent, by, by his stepfather. He was beaten a lot when he was a kid and I think that affected him as a, as a man, like as a father and he left home when he was fifteen. So he wasn't there for me. I didn't see my dad when I was a kid. Um, but I, I pity his beginning, like, because I get why he became who he became.

• 9:42Steven Bartlett?

  Mm-hmm.

• 9:42Speaker 00

  Um, he was super musical and I think that was maybe the most inspiring thing and that's the thing I, I got from him. I always used to see him playing his guitar.

• 9:50Steven Bartlett?

  When did he leave your household?

• 9:52Speaker 00

  He left.

• 9:53Steven Bartlett?

  How old were you?

• 9:54Speaker 00

  Shit, I don't even remember. That's, that's how long ago, like, I was young, I was super young and I think he came back. Well, he must have came back twice because my, I have two brothers and sisters younger than me. So, um, my, yeah, he came, um, uh, um, I think he left, I think he left on me. Um, and then my two sisters, um, that are younger than me, Rachel and Jessica, um, he came back around and they were trying to like, kind of, um,

• 10:23Steven Bartlett?

  Rekindle.

• 10:23Speaker 00

  Rekindle, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 10:24Steven Bartlett?

  Do you not remember that the household changing in any way when, when he left?

• 10:28Speaker 00

  I think I was too young, like I was, I was really young. So, so when I grew up not giving a shit that I didn't have a dad. Uh like, if, if that makes sense, I, I, um, I didn't have a connection with him. I didn't, um, I didn't know him that way. A lot of my older brothers and sisters were very close. And very like, this is my guy, this is, you know, like, my kids are like, I'm best friends with my kids. I love, I like, I'm, I'm. We have our own private jokes. We, you know, like, like we have that. I never had that with my dad, so I didn't feel like anyone left. I only noticed how important he was when he died. Like, I was like, oh shit, you needed dad and like, it was like, it was like, whoa.

• 11:08Steven Bartlett?

  You only noticed how important he was when he died?

• 11:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, honestly, like, honestly, before then, I was just like, oh, he's just a sperm, sperm donor. Like, I don't really, it doesn't, it doesn't matter to me, it doesn't like, it's like, it was, uh, and it wasn't even by my mom, it was just like, I, I didn't, I wasn't bothered about it, you know? Um, but then when he died, I was like, I, I, I had kids then, he hadn't met my, my kids. And I remember my, I was putting my daughters asleep and she had a bad dream and I said, um, I got you, don't worry, I'm here. And I was like, shit, I've never heard that. And I was like, oh, that's what, like, that's a dad. Like, if you get me, like, that's, that's how important that part of your life is. And then I was like, also, you inherit things from your parents.

• 11:53Speaker 00

  Like, and that's not money, that's not wealth. You do, of course, inherit those things, but I think the most important thing you inherit from your parents is memories. Even like mental health support, like, my dad always said this, like, that sometimes is like petrol in your tank when you're like, um. I don't know how to get this business off the ground. I remember dad always said this. I remember mom said, don't never give up, like all that stuff. Like, I didn't grow up with that, like, if you get what I mean. So, um, that hit me when I, when I was like, my dad's gone and, and I understood. How like instrumental a parent can be in your life when those, um, when those things are around, you know?

• 12:33Speaker 00

  Um, yeah, so that's what I saw anyway. But, but yeah, that's really like my parents in terms of how they affected me.

• 12:39Steven Bartlett?

  I often like, I think I figured myself out in hindsight by, almost by comparison of like comparing me to my peers. At a very young age, you kind of notice how you're different from your peers, even from your brothers and sisters. I've got four, there's four of us in my family, kids, I'm the youngest of four. And much of how I've understood myself is by realising what I'm not.

• 12:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:57Steven Bartlett?

  You know what I mean? So when you think about like at that young age, under the age of eighteen, what, who were we figuring out that you were in comparison to the, the outside world?

• 13:07Speaker 00

  Even with my brothers and sisters, I remember coming home with indie records and I remember I was working with a girl and she played me Blondie and like, like loads of, loads of like, like kind of seventies, eighties indie records. I was like, shit, this is fun. Like I, I always wanted to delve in things that were foreign to me. Cause I was like, okay, I grew up with grime. I grew up with hip hop. I get it. But it was like, what, what are these things I don't understand? And then when I would bring them home, I'd be like, check this out. And they'd be like, okay, bro. Especially coming from the background of like gospel and like, kind of like, you know, black music. And it was weird to come home with music that, that was so foreign, you know?

• 13:52Speaker 00

  And so nobody even knew how to compliment me on it, but go like, you're doing your thing, I guess. Like, you know? And, and I feel like I've seen that happen consistently in my life where I grew up around grime, grew up around grime artists. I went to grime raves, but I never wanted to make grime. And I never felt like I was the kind of black guy that I was supposed to be when I was in those environments. I was like, I was always weird or like, I never knew all the dances. I used to dance funky. And like, I was just, I just knew like, I don't know if I'm supposed to be here.

• 14:30Steven Bartlett?

  If I had sixteen year old you, sixteen, sixteen year

• 14:33Speaker 00

  Weird, weird as hell. Just, just, I remember my girlfriend told me about how, when she met, uh, my wife now. But when she was my girlfriend, she was like, I remember seeing you years ago and

• 14:47Speaker 00

  you would wear a durag. I would be wearing like a, you know, those capes, like Marilyn Manson capes. Like it was like fucking black ass, like long ass jacket. I would have like a, you know, those metal fingers.

• 15:00Steven Bartlett?

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 15:01Speaker 00

  Night fingers. Yeah, yeah.

• 15:02Steven Bartlett?

  The tube.

• 15:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. I used to have a night finger on and it had like a crucifix on it and it was crazy. I don't know why I was wearing it, but I wore it. And then I had like a Dunlop cap like backwards. And then I would be wearing Dunlop trainers and I was just, I was just a weird kid and I would, I would always dress. In the most funkiest ways ever and my wife was like, it was just so funny, you just didn't give a shit. And I didn't even notice I was doing it. I just was like, well, this is the stuff I'm gonna wear.

• 15:31Steven Bartlett?

  But most, I remember being, you know, I was like fourteen, all I wanted to do was fit in. So all I wanted to do was like, wear the outfits that everyone else was wearing and just fit into the crowd and be accepted by the crowd. You sound slightly different in that regard.

• 15:44Speaker 00

  Even if I wanted to wear what everyone was wearing, I couldn't. I didn't have the money. So it was like, what was cool with my family or where our cool was, was that we were creative. And so we found our way of being popular or being kind of loved amongst our peers by our like, character and our personality, if you get what I mean.

• 16:06Steven Bartlett?

  And that was your whole family?

• 16:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, all of them dancers, singers, we would dance together. We used to put on, we'd done a show in school together as a family and put on like a concert and we had the whole school come and pay to watch us perform. So we were kind of like little superstars in our neighbourhood, like if you get, I mean, as a group. So I remember they used to write articles on us, the Jackson Nine and all this stuff. Like, so it was like, we were very like, like kind of, my family was really loved for just their creativity. We'd never had the money to be those cool kids, like, somehow we like kind of transcended the physical cool, like the physical side of cool, because we definitely didn't have that stuff.

• 16:48Steven Bartlett?

  Interesting. Do you know who was driving that? So you've said like, the outside world responded well to it and they kind of embraced it. But was there someone, was there someone at home driving individuality in your, in your house? Or was it just the fact?

• 17:00Speaker 00

  I think it's my mum, honestly. And it wasn't my mum necessarily, my mum didn't get in the way of it. And I think that's one thing, if, when I'm talking about things that you inherit from your parents, I could definitely say I inherited that from my, my mum, is that she didn't get in the way of us being ourselves. And if anything, she would laugh at it or be like, go do you, like. So like, I remember, yeah, I remember vividly like, that being just, my mum being open and kind of seeing my, my older brother Jamie was a producer and a DJ and he used to make his own sound systems because he got inspired by. You know, like dub, basically, you know, like dub.

• 17:42Speaker 00

  But at the time, everyone was making like jungle, but it was all, it all came from the ska dub world, if you get what I mean. And so he used to make, I used to help him make his speakers for his DJ sets. And then he would go out into like the festivals or Notting Hill and put on his own DJ set with his friends. And so, yeah, yeah, like that, all of this stuff was going on like side by side while I was a kid, you know?

• 18:08Steven Bartlett?

  Sounds like a, like a really, a nice form of like creative chaos, like the environment to be in.

• 18:13Speaker 00

  Chaotic though, chaotic as hell.

• 18:16Steven Bartlett?

  Well, when did you start focusing on music? What age?

• 18:20Speaker 00

  I don't know.

• 18:20Steven Bartlett?

  You don't know, it just looks, yeah.

• 18:22Speaker 00

  It's just kind of like, I, I guess in school I had a band called Dynamics. And one of the guys that was in it, um, you might know him, he's Flo, he's a sick producer. He's done Little Sims out, he's done so many cool albums, like most of the stuff that everyone's loving right now, he's kind of had a hand in. Um, and, um, we had a band in school in, um, Stoke Newington. Yeah, that would, that would inspire, that would inspire a lot of stuff, like, um, we were making our own music, we were like, we're gonna be the biggest band in the world. We used to argue all the time, like we were like, like flipping Rolling Stones. We thought we were like, like rock stars. And in our school, we would give out flyers and make our own flyers, um, and like stick them up around the school, like come to our concert and all this stuff.

• 19:07Speaker 00

  So we were just very, very like brashy and like, we got this.

• 19:11Steven Bartlett?

  What age was this?

• 19:12Speaker 00

  This was like.

• 19:13Steven Bartlett?

  When that band started popping?

• 19:14Speaker 00

  Fourteen.

• 19:15Steven Bartlett?

  So you leave secondary school at like sixteen years old, right?

• 19:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:18Steven Bartlett?

  That's, haven't we? Uh, at that point, what, what's your orientation in life? If I'd asked you, what, what are you gonna be when you grow, grow up? What would you have told me at sixteen upon leaving school?

• 19:26Speaker 00

  Everyone knew I was gonna be a musician, everyone.

• 19:28Steven Bartlett?

  By that point?

• 19:28Speaker 00

  Literally, like, I remember leaving, like, uh, we had that in my classroom in school. They were like, everyone wrote down, who do you think's gonna be the most successful? Who do you think's gonna be rich first? Who do you think's this? And they were just like, lab, and like, Tim, Tim, Tim. And I was like, I didn't even believe it, I was like, okay, cool. I, I know I wanna do these things, but like I was super mega focused. I used to get in mad trouble just so I could go to the music room. So literally like my whole existence has been like, I wanna write records, I wanna write records. And like, that's all I do.

• 20:02Speaker 00

  I was on a mission to write records.

• 20:05Steven Bartlett?

  And that, what age did that start? Cause I know when it, it started to, when you got signed and when you released your debut album and stuff, but I'm trying to understand how long your like mastery process was from the first time you picked up an instrument or rapped or sang or wrote a lyric.

• 20:19Speaker 00

  It's weird, cause that, my brother Josh, amazing drummer, McNasty, bad boy drummer, he taught me how to play the bass, taught me how to play the drums. And I would see him doing that, so I would just copy my older brother. But because I have so many, then I would go to Jamie's room and Jamie would teach me how to use the MPC. So I would go to his studio and him and his boys would be smoking, drinking, and like on a madness and I would, he kind of took me under his wing for a bit. And I would like go around with him to like, in his world, which was very much more like, it was much more like hip hop, urban.

• 20:58Steven Bartlett?

  So you got this full kind of.

• 20:59Speaker 00

  Kind of gritty, like more hip hop, like we were listening to Pete Rock, Wu-Tang, all that shit. And then my other brother who was more musical, like a bit more like, like instrument, drums. And I would be around his friends that were musicians, you know, so.

• 21:15Steven Bartlett?

  We spoke to someone in your team and they said that we could put any instrument in front of you and you'd play it.

• 21:21Steven Bartlett?

  And this kind of like, now I kind of understand where that came from.

• 21:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just like, everything's an instrument to me, honestly. Everything.

• 21:30Steven Bartlett?

  Like this table.

• 21:30Speaker 00

  Yep. The sound of your voice is a tone. Like, I can just hear music all the time, like it doesn't stop. And I might be, I don't know, it might be like, I got like diagnosed with ADHD cause I thought I may have had it. And so I went to go check and I was like, when I read about what it's like, I was like, oh shit. It makes sense why I'm so, that's literally just all I do. My life is diet, I raise my children and make music. That's literally been my life.

• 22:04Steven Bartlett?

  You got diagnosed with ADHD? Yeah.

• 22:08Steven Bartlett?

  It's funny because I was sat here recently.

• 22:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:11Steven Bartlett?

  With a, with an expert on the topic. So it's very front of mind, the topic of ADHD.

• 22:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:16Steven Bartlett?

  And one of the things he said was that, you know, there's been this rise in ADHD in our,

• 22:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:22Steven Bartlett?

  in, in the world, specifically in Western countries. I'm only saying specifically because I know the stats, where I think it's 30 years ago, one in 20 kids had ADHD. Now it's one in nine.

• 22:37Steven Bartlett?

  And his take on it was that ADHD is an early response. Basically, when we were young and there was stress in our, in our households, the, the, the child, when the stressful events learns how to basically turn off their attention as a way to protect themselves.

• 22:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:55Steven Bartlett?

  Like switch their attention away from that thing. So, and they've looked at all these studies and really inspired by them where they get 65,000, 65,000 parents and the parents who have the most stress in their lives end up having kids with ADHD.

• 23:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, makes sense.

• 23:10Steven Bartlett?

  And it's just interesting. So it's just front of my thought, you know, it goes back to a childhood, but.

• 23:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, my shit sounds mad stressful. So it's not, it's not far off like in terms, but yeah. Um, it even talking about it sometimes sounds silly because everyone thinks they have ADHD. And everyone says it. So I, I was like, I, I hate kind of, I know hate is a strong word, but like talking about ADHD. I don't enjoy trying to victimize myself with it. And that's why I checked because I was like, I think it's disrespectful for a person with something that affects their mental health or something that affects them, their ability to, to do what they want to do or like to just live a life that is supposed to be, I don't know what is normal, but yeah, you know.

• 24:00Speaker 00

  And that prohibits them. And I think it's disrespectful to be like, oh, I'm autistic, I'm this, without really like kind of knowing.

• 24:10Steven Bartlett?

  Was it prohibiting your life?

• 24:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, a hundred percent. Still does today.

• 24:13Steven Bartlett?

  What's the, what's the, what's the symptom or what was the?

• 24:16Speaker 00

  Can't finish shit.

• 24:19Speaker 00

  Forget like, like literally it's like blackouts. It's like, oh. Um, even in conversation, sometimes when people say something to me, it would be like, I'm taking the information and it just kind of dies away. And I'm like, shit, I can't even hold a conversation with someone or keeping up relationships, remembering to get back to people. Um, and that in business, in terms of networking and, and I'm not talking about networking for my, um, using people like, I'm not ladder chasing, but there is a part of it where it's like, your, your life, your business is not going to change if you don't respond. And so like, I would, I would work with artists and they would be like, Lab, you're so sick. I love your shit.

• 25:00Speaker 00

  Please like, can, can you write my album? I'll be like, yeah. And then start the record and they'll be like, they haven't heard from me. Where's Lab? Why is he, he just, he just clocks out, you know? And it's like, I'll just forget I'm doing it and I'll get dragged into something else.

• 25:16Steven Bartlett?

  I wonder if there's a relationship between ADHD and creativity, cause you know, I hear a very similar thing from pretty much all of the artists that I've, I've sat here with about, about, um, what you, what you've just described there. Going back to the, this, this, uh, all these instruments you can play and all these brothers and sisters that are playing a different variety of, um, instrument and learning different sort of art forms. As it relates to like creativity, um, how important do you think it has been for your creativity and the, the art that you've created in your career? To have all of these, I remember one, one person I spoke to talked about creativity as being like, all of these different clouds in your mind. And then sometimes the clouds hit each other and that's like a new idea.

• 25:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 25:58Steven Bartlett?

  But in order to be creative, you have to have as many clouds as possible.

• 26:01Speaker 00

  I, I feel that. Um, I think that's in learning, like, it's like, um, being able to create variety in your ability to, um, transmit, um, like an idea. Cause I always look at, I don't, I look at creativity as. Um articulate in your soul. And that that's the true form for me like, cause you can be creative. But not really tell the truth while you're being creative like you're just like, oh, I I'm making something that I think people would like. Um and that there's and and you can still be creative while doing that where it's like, okay, cool. Here's something that I know people are gonna respond to, I'm gonna get a reaction out of you.

• 26:45Speaker 00

  And then there's the other side where I think, to me, I believe it's art where you're transmitting and you're articulating. The sound or the frequency of your soul to a person and I feel like every soul has a song. Even even if it's not in music, like every soul um has a uh a direction or a place it wants to go and it has purpose and it's like. I I can and I I always ask artists, I'm like, what do you hear in you like not what do you hear outside of you? And oh, um what's it Burning Boy is doing this and that guy's doing this. And if I mix these together, then it maybe makes me and it's like, no, no, no. What's in you? What do you hear like right here like just internally?

• 27:29Speaker 00

  And so um for me, I had to do that to to find um what I wanted to say. And and I I'm still finding that I'm still kind of like um. I I guess it's learning how to like uh be unafraid to be like totally naked because. Bearing your soul is naked like it's like it's like if I do this, someone's gonna be like, this is shit and it's gonna hurt.

• 27:54Steven Bartlett?

  If you're in the process of learning to be unafraid, was there a time that you were taught to be afraid?

• 27:58Speaker 00

  Um my whole life, uh like everything, I'm I'm still afraid now, but but I can see it. And I think that makes a difference um um in terms of um wh- whether I choose to be afraid. But before I had no choice, I was just like, I don't even know what this is. I just was like, I'm not enjoying this. I wasn't enjoying my career. So I was like, I'm not enjoying, why am I not enjoying this? And then I was like, okay, I'm not saying what I wanna say. I'm not saying what what I feel like saying or what I feel excited about saying. And I feel like my world is being governed by um accommodating. My periphery, like my manager says, if you do this, this is gonna gain a reaction. And it's kind of like your inner child says, oh, I want somebody to say he's cute.

• 28:43Speaker 00

  I want someone to say he's worthy. And so you run towards tha- that energy like and and I always always saying um in the music industry. It's like a bunch of kids trying to get a pat on the back. That's what we're all doing. And it's like if you see it in your A and R or you see it in your peers and everybody's trying to get that pat on the back like, well done, good boy. And everybody wants to get the good boy. And so we're all running after good boy. But when you finally realize that I don't give a shit about your good boy, I don't want it. I want I want a good boy for myself. I wanna I wanna be like, you said it, like you actually said what was internally going on. And I um does it matter what people um uh say on the other side like eh?

• 29:28Speaker 00

  And getting to that point where you're like, um, I am comfortable with what I will receive after I've said what I said um from my soul. I think for me is like true freedom is like, okay, cool. I'm gonna say what I need to say.

• 29:44Steven Bartlett?

  That's a journey, right?

• 29:45Speaker 00

  Yo, that shit's scary, man.

• 29:48Steven Bartlett?

  That's a journey. So you start, you know, you start out in your career, you're trying to you're trying to get on your learning the ropes. People are telling you, giving you advice, you don't know better.

• 29:56Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 29:56Steven Bartlett?

  So you follow the advice.

• 29:57Speaker 00

  Church boy in in the music industry, phew.

• 30:00Steven Bartlett?

  Sometimes the advice pays off, so you go, okay, I'm gonna listen to you more.

• 30:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 30:04Steven Bartlett?

  And then at some point in your career.

• 30:05Speaker 00

  That's the worst part is when it pays off.

• 30:07Steven Bartlett?

  Then you got then you're.

• 30:08Speaker 00

  You cause you think it works. You're like, well, I I did everything I didn't wanna do, but it worked, so maybe I should do more of this and then.

• 30:16Steven Bartlett?

  What are you referring to?

• 30:17Speaker 00

  I mean, just like records or like.

• 30:20Steven Bartlett?

  What part of your career is this, though?

• 30:23Speaker 00

  I think, uh, okay, so like with Simon Cowell and uh, when I signed to Simon Cowell, I signed to Simon Cowell because my manager at the time was like, it's a bigger check. You're in a label that um, isn't gonna know uh, is it, isn't, is gonna prioritize you because you're not like anything on their label. I was like, yeah, great idea, but I didn't think about it for myself. I allowed someone else to tell me wh- what my next direction is because um, I did, I don't think I had the strength at the time to even think about what I wanted for myself, if you get me. Same way, I owned a restaurant. Um, uh, that was my manager that was like, you should own a restaurant. I was like, yeah, let's own a restaurant. And then I was like,

• 31:06Speaker 00

  I don't know shit about a restaurant. I've never cared about a restaurant. And, and I only realized that later, but it kind of felt like, you're supposed to look like a mogul and you're supposed to look important and you're supposed to gather all these things that, that, that start to create um.

• 31:22Steven Bartlett?

  What I'm hearing from that.

• 31:23Speaker 00

  Keeping up appearances, that's what it is.

• 31:25Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, what I was hearing from that is like, because you didn't, I was gonna say because you didn't know what you wanted, someone else told you what you wanted, but it's more like, part of it sounded like you didn't have the conviction to stand up for what you wanted.

• 31:37Speaker 00

  No, yeah, that's what it is. It's, I, I didn't ask myself what I wanted. I never did because I was always accommodating what everyone else wanted and I still do it now sometimes, but, but I've learned to, to, to be aware of it.

• 31:49Steven Bartlett?

  Was that because, is that in part because of like, when we're coming up, we're a little bit desperate just to get on, that we just, we don't have the power yet to say like, I wanna do it my way because we're still trying, we still need the check or because we're, we still.

• 32:01Speaker 00

  I think one thing I love about the ADHD is I don't think about money the same way most people do. So,

• 32:10Speaker 00

  like I've, a lot of my peers in the music industry, they're building a business because they can, like they're, they're going, okay, this, yeah, we're gonna do this and that's gonna come with that. And they have this whole internal plan. And I'm like, my plan is like, well, if I can take a sound out of heaven and put it on a fucking computer, that is mad to me. Like that, that is like, that literally lights up my whole soul and I feel so excited. I literally sometimes, when I'm making music, I cry because I'm like, it hit me that hard, if you get what I mean. And so like, that for me is like, It literally like, I would live for that. I could, that's enough for me.

• 32:49Speaker 00

  But then, then around that, like, taking stardust from the clouds or from wherever you want, from the universe. Um, this business comes around it and it says, we can turn this into money, but you have to do this with it. And then you've got to funnel it and you can, you can only do this in order to get that. And you're like, oh shit, okay, cool. Be a star. What does a star look like? Oh, um, be in a car with flipping tinted windows, have an entourage and go on like you're the shit. Okay, cool, cool. But I don't really know how to do that. I'm kind of really a geek, like, cause that's what I was when I was sixteen. And then, before you know it, you're like, I don't, none of this shit means anything to me.

• 33:30Speaker 00

  And I felt like I was being, that's the time, I think, when you're talking about this place where I don't believe I belong. I was in the music industry and like I was around, I remember like in Psycho, they went, who are you going out with? Like, when I was first signed, it was like, who are you gonna go out with? And I was like, what do you mean? It was like, oh, maybe Sherlock Lloyd. And I was like, what? I was like, what do you mean? And then, oh, we're gonna send you to this party, J L S are there. Um, you just got, like, there's gonna be photographers outside the building. Um, um, be ready to be like thing, cause we're trying to put you around this facade. So I was like, oh shit, this is, this is how it works then, I guess. And, and so being around that, that was instantly like, I, I, I thought studying music theory

• 34:16Speaker 00

  and studying modes and scales was, was your like, uh, what made you worthy of being in this industry? If you get what I mean. Um, but it became like, no, entertainment isn't craft. Entertainment is entertainment and people will be entertained by anything. So.

• 34:33Steven Bartlett?

  Play the game.

• 34:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, and, and, and so it was like, find your way, like, just try and, try and lie as long as you can.

• 34:40Steven Bartlett?

  When did you feel, when did you feel the symptoms of that? So I sit here with, I've seen it with a lot of people who did, did a very similar thing and they say, I spent a decade like wearing the mask and like wearing the outfit.

• 34:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 34:50Steven Bartlett?

  And then at some point, you know, I remember phone cotton saying, like, she's driving to work and she just starts having panic attacks from the moment. She thinks, fuck this.

• 34:57Speaker 00

  Sin.

• 34:57Steven Bartlett?

  I'm going to my happy place. And she launches this brand called Happy Place where she gets to control her own destiny and be herself. She doesn't have to do the like, oh yeah, I'm fine. You know, she can be the full expression of her.

• 35:07Speaker 00

  That's a hard one, bro.

• 35:08Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 35:09Speaker 00

  And it's funny, yeah, we all meet each other and, and that's, is, we're all the same. Boy or girl waiting to get the pat on the back. Good boy, good, good girl. And then, and then, uh, I feel like we meet each other and we're all pretending that we've, we've got it together.

• 35:26Steven Bartlett?

  Hmm.

• 35:27Speaker 00

  So I could have seen Fern and she's like, I'm dying inside right now, but she has to be Fern. I got it together. I'm like, shit, she's got it so well together, man. It's like, man, I'm, I'm lying. Like, they, they, they could see it. Like, I'm a fake, I'm a fake. And everyone's doing that, but it's weird, like, and then it turns you into this person that's like getting kicks out of lying better than the other. Like, so you go to an award ceremony and it's like, we sold fifty million or, well, I don't know, five million records this week. How many did you sell? And it's like, I'm, I'm valuable.

• 36:00Steven Bartlett?

  You start playing the game.

• 36:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, people believe in my lie and now I believe in it. And it's like, uh, like it starts to create this thing in you where, um, if it becomes successful, like we were saying, it's like, if it, if it works and it pays off, then you're like, oh, I need to, I need to like, I need to be this guy now. I've got, I've got to believe in this guy. And so, yeah, I, it's so funny when you're saying with Fern, I'm like, I would have never known, I would have never known that that stuff was going on. Cause I feel like, I feel like she had it well together. And I was like, I was having panic attacks.

• 36:32Steven Bartlett?

  Hmm. What were the symptoms then for you? When did you realise that something had to change?

• 36:36Speaker 00

  I was smashing guitars on stage and I know rock stars do that. I was a church boy, so it was, that was big for me. Um, and I, one show I was performing and I was like, I hate this, but I was saying I hate this, but I wasn't saying it in my mind. I was like, I, I could feel it. I was like, why am I, I'm in this front of this crowd. This is not even the audience I wanted to be in front of. What am I doing? They're loving it, but, but I'm still just like, what is this? And, um, my band, when I was talking about accommodating, my band's eating my, um, rider before I get into my room because I was accommodating everyone to the point where it was like, like me, please, like,

• 37:18Speaker 00

  I'll do whatever I can to make sure you're comfortable in my space, even if it means giving you all my space. So my band was eating up my rider. My, some of the people on my, um, team were taking my, uh, like stuff from my, um, like they would, you know, like brands, when brands give you stuff, they would take it and give it to their families. Nothing was given to my family and my misses had actually noticed this. And I was like, no, no, no. I was always making excuses for everyone that was doing what they were doing.

• 37:46Steven Bartlett?

  Where does that come from in you? That people pleasing, trying to, trying to?

• 37:49Speaker 00

  It must be my dad. It mu- it must be like that my dad, because I think I've silenced my dad's absence in me. So it was this ah sperm donor, don't worry, bleh. And I had all, I had this thing in my head where it's like, I don't need this guy. But it's like, um, I think uh him not being present is like, what do I need to be for you to be here? If you get me. And I think um that happened. And also, I think the music industry helped create some of that as well. Where it was like, cause before the music industry, I was that guy. I'm from a durag one.

• 38:26Steven Bartlett?

  Thinker.

• 38:27Speaker 00

  I looked wonky as hell, bro. It was, I, I look back at some of the pictures and I'm dying. I'm like, who is this guy? But, but I was confident enough to walk around London looking like this like hodgepodge guy and.

• 38:40Steven Bartlett?

  So because, because of that.

• 38:41Speaker 00

  I think the music industry was like, you need to be this. And I was like, whoa, how?

• 38:46Steven Bartlett?

  In order to be accepted.

• 38:47Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 38:47Steven Bartlett?

  And from a young age, you'd learnt that like, you, you'd, I guess at some stage, you felt not accepted by your father. Is that what you're saying? So is that where that came from?

• 38:55Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think there's an element of that. Yeah, yeah. I think that church as well was there. And where it was like, there was a way to behave. There was a way to be.

• 39:02Steven Bartlett?

  There was right and wrong.

• 39:03Speaker 00

  There was a way to be, to, to be loved. If you behave this way, this is what you get, you know, like.

• 39:09Steven Bartlett?

  God loves you.

• 39:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, God, God loves you if you behave like this.

• 39:13Steven Bartlett?

  Interesting.

• 39:14Speaker 00

  And that's not true.

• 39:14Steven Bartlett?

  I'm really intrigued by, by the idea of like how, how we become people pleasers because, and it typically, even from, from speaking to Gabo, who literally wrote a book about this, um, he says the same thing in those early years when, you know, we, we're seeking the acceptance or validation from a parent and we're struggling to get it. We have that battle with them of trying to, trying to prove that we're good enough. So that becomes our adult tendency to seek approval and seek, trying to, you know, fit into others' expectations. You, you become an artist that becomes really prevalent in your, in your life, in, in your music, to the point that you're on stage, performing music that it sounds like.

• 39:47Speaker 00

  What is this?

• 39:49Steven Bartlett?

  To a crowd.

• 39:49Speaker 00

  Who made this?

• 39:50Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah. Do you know what? So many of us, so many, if we, if we act. Inauthentically for enough time, we build a life around that authenticity.

• 40:00Speaker 00

  That's right.

• 40:00Steven Bartlett?

  Build a friendship group around it. We build a, in your case, a fanbase around it.

• 40:05Speaker 00

  And I dropped it. I was like, no, allow this.

• 40:07Steven Bartlett?

  And then the pain of keeping up with that expectation and that that community you built around you that doesn't resonate with who you truly are. That's when the, you know, panic attacks and the psychology kicks in and tries to save you.

• 40:19Speaker 00

  But I think I've spoken to a lot of artists about as well. Everyone thinks that by doing you, you're still gonna achieve that same success. And that's the scary thing. I think for a lot of people where they're like, I found myself now. I'm gonna make the album that I own, the piece of craft or work or thing that that people, that that means everything to me. And it's like, no, it's entertainment. People don't give a shit. Like, you did it for you, just do it for you. And it's like, you have to know that some, people may resonate with the true you. Or you might have to go and do work and build a new audience and it's gonna take the same amount of time.

• 41:00Speaker 00

  But people don't want that. Like, when they're like, I'm gonna be me. And it's like, yeah, you got ten views on this one. And it's like, oh shit. I'm gonna jump back on that.

• 41:12Steven Bartlett?

  Well, that's when you learn that there is some kind of truth to the game.

• 41:16Speaker 00

  That's the reality. That's the reality of it. I had to learn that as well. It's like, being you is for you. And you have to do it for you. And you also have to accept the consequences of being you. And even the consequences of the way you do business as well. Like, I don't wanna, I don't wanna tour all around the world, saying hello to every and every person, not really connecting with the people I'm, I'm meeting. I'm just like, oh, I'm famous, just kiss my ass and I'm gonna move over to the next country and do the same. Like, I don't wanna do that. I don't, it doesn't excite me and it drains my energy, drains my creative energy.

• 41:54Speaker 00

  But if you don't tour, if you're getting a million for every show, or you're getting a, I don't know, half a mil for every show, you're like, whoa, maybe I wanna.

• 42:03Steven Bartlett?

  Say no to that.

• 42:04Speaker 00

  Do I wanna, do I wanna go do that? And it's like, but then if I go, the true me, that my centre says no. Okay, no, I'm not gonna do that. Well, then don't cry about it after. And, and a lot of us do where it's like, I made this decision.

• 42:23Speaker 00

  A lot of us can do that, you know, but learning to like really accept your choices and live and die by them. Um, can, can help you find fulfillment. And that to me is like money. That's, that's, that's like, whoo.

• 42:38Steven Bartlett?

  You have this gradual feeling building from the sound of it. And then is that day on stage? Was that the, the turning point for you? Was that the day?

• 42:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, I threw a guitar in the air. I almost hit a cameraman.

• 42:48Steven Bartlett?

  Why did you throw it?

• 42:49Speaker 00

  I was pissed. I was, I, I, I was backstage. Something happened. My manager was being weird. Our relationship was breaking down. Um, and I, I, I had a dependency. It was intense. I had no confidence. I li- I literally, I was at a place where I couldn't actually talk to people because I was, I had um, social anxiety. And, and so he was super confident and outgoing and um, kind of like was like a, a, a, someone to lean on. And that kind of went up to my, my early days in my career. And so um, our relationship started to break down and it felt like if I didn't have him saying my music's good, it wasn't. Um, and, and I kind of looked for him, to him for that, like.

• 43:34Steven Bartlett?

  Like a father figure?

• 43:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yes, exactly that. Like I, I, I kind of saw him as a father figure and we, we had a really close relationship. And then it just started to break down when money started coming in. And um, I felt that happening, but I didn't know what was going on internally. I was just like, something's weird. This is messed up. And then I went on stage, threw this guitar in the air. This cameraman was there and I remember there was a fan in the crowd. Because I'm a people pleaser, but also it pisses me off. I was watching the crowd and there was this one guy. And he was looking at me and he was like, it was just like he was just saying dickhead, like you look like an idiot. And I was like, I believe you. Ah, and then I just threw this guitar in there and it almost hit this woman. And I didn't see it.

• 44:18Speaker 00

  And my tour manager came backstage and he was like, you know, you almost killed someone today. And I was like.

• 44:23Steven Bartlett?

  Wait a minute. So you threw this guitar because some guy in the crowd was giving you a funny look?

• 44:27Speaker 00

  Him, the thing that, all this stuff was going on. And I, and then I was like, what the fuck am I doing here? Like, cool. And then, and then I threw this guitar in the air because I was just like, fuck this place. And then it literally just was like. And and just nearly just skimmed her and and I and when he said that I was like whoa I was like something's going on I need to deal with it.

• 44:51Steven Bartlett?

  Did you have an anger problem?

• 44:52Speaker 00

  Oh man, a mad anger problem, but that's ADHD as well, but mad anger issues like like from primary school, I I don't I don't really, I haven't seen that guy for a very long time, but crazy.

• 45:05Steven Bartlett?

  Because it reminds me again of the thing, you know, Gab, Gab was here like five hours ago. He's literally written a book on this. This is why all these topics are so friend of mine.

• 45:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 45:14Steven Bartlett?

  And what he was talking about is there's there's such thing as healthy anger where which is actually a cure, something that allows us to heal because he says that when we have like chaotic upbringings and we, you know, have abandonment from a parent, et cetera, et cetera. We it creates this kind of like internal anger and resentment.

• 45:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 45:30Steven Bartlett?

  But at the same time, it creates people pleasing.

• 45:32Speaker 00

  Yes, and suppression, a lot of suppression, yeah.

• 45:35Steven Bartlett?

  I was gonna say the word suppression. So the anger becomes suppressed and it looks like people pleasing on the surface, but then it will

• 45:39Speaker 00

  is that

• 45:41Steven Bartlett?

  out of nowhere.

• 45:42Speaker 00

  What?

• 45:43Steven Bartlett?

  Like the volcano coming over the top and then

• 45:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, those layers. Yeah, yeah. And that's what there was a lot of that where it's like you can be passive aggressive and it's I I feel like

• 45:55Steven Bartlett?

  It sounds like a contradiction to be a people pleaser, but then to have the volcano can erupt.

• 45:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, I know, I know, it sounds well, but it makes sense because you're you're suppressing so much stuff and you're not saying and that's where the big thing is in music I was also I felt suppressed. So it was like, can I go? Can I find, can I stop suppressing that as well? Because I was doing it musically where I was in, I was in this kind of pop realm. And I was like, no, but I want them to hear all the layers of me. And I think euphoria was the like first time I felt people actually heard what was going on on my hard drive for real, for real. And and then with it connecting, I was like, oh, it was like, oh, they get it like, but but I was like, it took so long for me to be able to try and share it. And it took for somebody else to go, give me your hard drive.

• 46:44Speaker 00

  I'm gonna put this all in my, I'm gonna put all of this stuff in my show and I want you to make new stuff in my show for them, for me to not suppress it. Because I it was like, I'm gonna do it for you.

• 46:56Steven Bartlett?

  You mentioned panic attacks.

• 46:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 46:58Steven Bartlett?

  Something Fern told me about from her.

• 46:59Speaker 00

  Lost hair, everything.

• 47:00Steven Bartlett?

  Lost hair?

• 47:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, I had like, I had clumps of hair falling out. It was mad, like, it was like, I got to there and my wife was a big like part of supporting that because she, um, yeah, she just was like, she could see it all happening. Um, and funny enough, I couldn't fight for her at the time as well. Like, um, like she could see it all happening. She was like, this is not the way business should be done, shouldn't be treated this way. And, and a lot of the people that were around me, uh, made her like the monster. She became the.

• 47:35Steven Bartlett?

  She was one of the boundaries.

• 47:36Speaker 00

  Yes, that's right. And so, you know, like, um, have you ever seen Spinal Tap?

• 47:40Steven Bartlett?

  No, no, no.

• 47:40Speaker 00

  Okay, but I, I kind of, I call it the spinal tap moment where the missus becomes a manager and she wasn't managing me, she wasn't even trying to, she hates the music industry. But she wanted to be like, I wanna protect this guy's sanity. And everyone else around me was like, we've got a gig for flipping a hundred and something grand, what do you mean? Like, why, why are you not gonna do the show? And it's like, yeah, yeah, no, I know, you're feeling tired, you're feeling, you're, are you feeling a bit emotional? Okay, okay, don't worry, man, don't worry. Like, look at what he's doing, he's doing all this work and, uh, comparisons and all this stuff. And so there was a lot of manipulation and she was seeing it. And I think they kind of didn't like, um, that. So she got, she got intensely like kind of, um.

• 48:25Steven Bartlett?

  Protective.

• 48:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, but also then she became the martyr, like the, she became the, there was a witch hunt and it kind of felt like it was directed at her. And I wasn't strong enough to support her in that time, if you get me, like, I was, I was still too.

• 48:41Steven Bartlett?

  You, you were taking the wrong side.

• 48:42Speaker 00

  I was accommodating. No, I wasn't even taking sides. It was like, no, no, it's, it's because of this and.

• 48:47Steven Bartlett?

  Okay, so you were just, okay.

• 48:49Speaker 00

  I'm supposed to have it together, but I don't have it together, but like, no, I don't think they meant that. And, and I didn't hear the stuff that was going on, but when I heard what was going on, I was like, oh shit, this is crazy. Um.

• 49:00Steven Bartlett?

  Have you ever spoke to her about that?

• 49:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what built strength in our relationship was that I said, I said to her, I apologized to her. And I, I think a lot of people don't notice how strong and powerful women are beside people that are in the public eye or like in the music industry or entertainment industry. It's like, some of them, some of them are like, of course, wonky or whatever, but and are there for the wrong reasons. But the ones that are there for the right reasons sometimes get, um, they're kind of, yeah, they, they don't get treated very well. If you get me, because it's like, you're the guy, you're the person with the guy.

• 49:35Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, they do have the credit.

• 49:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, and it's always that. It's like, you're the person with the guy, like, um, and so she, um, she just was like mad supportive. And she introduced me to a shrink, um, and got me like, like a lot of support, like just to talk to someone and, and a life coach. Cause she worked around psychology. She was just really like, um, she put me on to a lot of things that, um, um, I wouldn't have had if she wasn't around, you know? So it was like super important to have her.

• 50:04Steven Bartlett?

  Women in that, that feminine, they call it like the feminine energy.

• 50:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 50:08Steven Bartlett?

  It's so, that particular feminine energy is so lost upon men these days.

• 50:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 50:14Steven Bartlett?

  We talked about it earlier with this whole idea of like, be more of a man and.

• 50:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 50:18Steven Bartlett?

  And don't express your emotions and be a tough guy and all this stuff. But then you look at the stats around mental health and suicide and you see that it's just not working for men.

• 50:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 50:25Steven Bartlett?

  This approach, this over masculinity is just not, clearly not working.

• 50:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 50:29Steven Bartlett?

  Women, and including in my life.

• 50:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 50:31Steven Bartlett?

  Have an ability to, to open us up to the other side.

• 50:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 50:36Steven Bartlett?

  Which is unbelievably healing.

• 50:38Speaker 00

  She's mad. She's just super smart and like, um, I just think she was more aware. She, she had like, uh, she had a start that was pretty intense. And so it woke her up to a lot of things that I didn't, I wasn't, um, aware of. And so she kind of schooled me on a lot of things that I think if she wasn't around, I would have lost it. I would have been like, I would have been like, where's Lab? And then it would have been like, oh, right. He's on YouTube with like no teeth shouting at the camera. I don't know, like some, you know how people go like way left. But yeah, like, I, I think if she wasn't around, I wouldn't be around, honestly.

• 51:15Steven Bartlett?

  When you look back on the art that you created in that time, that phase of your life, the music, the hits, Pass Out, Frisky, that, you know, all of that music you created, how do you feel about the music now?

• 51:26Steven Bartlett?

  So if you walked in here and it was playing, how would you like, how would you? How'd you feel?

• 51:31Speaker 00

  Um, I laugh now. I'm like, oh, that's vibes. That's fun. Like, it's kind of like, it's fun. And sometimes I see the brilliance and I'm like, like Pass Out still hits me and I'm like, I can see the energy. And it was a moment where I kind of pulled up my sleeves and I was like, I'm not doing this shit anymore. I'm not gonna fake it. I'm gonna make something I wanna hear and, and then it paid off. But I have moments like that and then I get scared again. Like, it's like, Pass Out, yeah. And it, and it takes me a lot to get there where I'm like, I'm gonna do something, yeah. And then it's like, everyone's like, well done, do more. And I'm like, I'm too scared. Like, that can happen where I get too shook. Um, it's just dealing with yourself. It's being, um, being aware of yourself, like what I was saying.

• 52:14Speaker 00

  To be conscious of yourself, um, or aware of your behaviour helps you, um, create peace in your life, like, and, and make choices in a moment that are gonna, um, support you in more ways than one, if you get me.

• 52:30Steven Bartlett?

  More than just finance or?

• 52:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, and finance just becomes such a big thing in this industry, even.

• 52:35Steven Bartlett?

  Status and finance.

• 52:36Speaker 00

  Being a father, finance is like, you run, you run for it because you're taught that's the way a man's supposed to be.

• 52:44Steven Bartlett?

  Why did you go to, eventually you go to LA at what, 24 years old or something?

• 52:48Speaker 00

  Why did I go to LA? Yeah.

• 52:49Steven Bartlett?

  Was it 24 years old? You, you?

• 52:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 52:51Steven Bartlett?

  You left the UK?

• 52:51Speaker 00

  I wanted to go to LA to get away from the UK. I'm not even just get away. I think that was going on internally. Like, I was like, I needed to do something different.

• 53:00Steven Bartlett?

  This was after you released your first album?

• 53:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, and I was getting, I was taking, it took me like ages to do a second. And I was like, I don't know, I was just in my head about it. And so I went to LA to go and just, just be somewhere different, try working with some other writers. And like, maybe, uh, kind of get new, fresh energy, you know?

• 53:21Steven Bartlett?

  I was getting in my head about it.

• 53:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 53:23Steven Bartlett?

  You, that second album. So you released the first album on Psycho?

• 53:26Speaker 00

  They always call it the difficult second album. That's what they call the second album. Cause it's like, you had a moment and then it's like, oh, I gotta do that again. It's like, that was on accident. And it is always on accident. It's like, nothing, um.

• 53:41Speaker 00

  Like you can paint anything by numbers, but you you can never, even in business, you can't recreate exactly the same thing unless it was supposed to happen.

• 53:50Steven Bartlett?

  Cause the world's changed as well.

• 53:51Speaker 00

  That's it. Yeah. So it's like, yeah, like, well, even in this industry now, like, um, me and my team have been talking about it, but it's like, we're in a whole new world. Most records are sold online, like heavily, like.

• 54:04Steven Bartlett?

  TikTok.

• 54:04Speaker 00

  Like TikTok, that's it. That's, that's, that's how you sell records. And so to come into that and go, how do I find myself amongst this without losing um, my authenticity? Um, like, what do you do? Like, you know, like, and, and so then it kind of goes back to a lot of the things that have happened where it's like, don't be that guy. Don't, don't be that guy and just like keep up appearances. Um, find your way, find a way of saying it in a way that means something to you, you know?

• 54:34Steven Bartlett?

  I'm really, you said, cause I sat with Lewis Capaldi and he said to me, I'm shitting it. His, his second album's coming out. He was like, I'm shitting it. And he told me about the procrastination, the doubt, that first album banged, this one did a billion streams. He was like, I'm shitting it because of the expectation. I genuinely, I get it. Like, not that I would, I've ever been there, but I can understand.

• 54:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, but in any business, it's like that. Yeah. It's like, we smashed it and, um, yeah.

• 55:00Steven Bartlett?

  Do it again.

• 55:00Speaker 00

  Yeah. It's like, do it again.

• 55:01Steven Bartlett?

  Give me another one of those. When, when artists and when people generally make that move and they, and they make, they make their way out to America.

• 55:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 55:08Steven Bartlett?

  They become like

• 55:11Steven Bartlett?

  a small fish in a big pond.

• 55:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 55:12Steven Bartlett?

  In many respects, like people aren't stopping you in the street like they are out here.

• 55:16Speaker 00

  Oh, that was sick. Just like, I remember going to the Grammys and I was like standing next to John Legend and who else was there? There was massive artists, yeah. Worldwide success, massive records. And I came to stand in and my publishers put me in there. And the cameramen just, they were taking, John, John, stand there. Um, what's that? Chrissy, Chrissy, stand. And then I came in and it was just like this.

• 55:42Steven Bartlett?

  They dropped the cameras.

• 55:43Speaker 00

  And then the guy was like this. That was like, oh shit. But do you know what, you know, when you're talking about losing um or not getting the reaction you wanted? It was the best reaction for me. I loved it. It was like, they don't even give a shit. I can, I can go be that guy again. I can go be the guy.

• 56:03Steven Bartlett?

  Expectation.

• 56:04Speaker 00

  That was, yes, there was no expectation. So I was in this environment where there's no expectation. And then it was like, now I can make me. Now I can go and make who I am. And I was in an environment on, and when I'm talking racially, the reason why I'm talking racially is because I felt pulled by these two races in this country, sonically. And, and then when I was over there, there was none. There was none like, Lab, you need to be hood, go do another this. Lab, we need more pop music. You need to be a bit more regional, connect with the radio more, do more Simon Cowell music. And, and it was that, there was a pull between me like, and, and I felt like I don't belong anywhere, like, because I like both.

• 56:48Speaker 00

  And I find, I can see myself in both, but um there's always somebody that doesn't like it. And that's what um kept on affecting me was that there's always someone that doesn't like what I'm doing. And so I kind of became comfortable with that feeling of being like, yes, someone's not gonna like this, like, and, and.

• 57:07Steven Bartlett?

  And if you're a people pleaser, that's gonna make you procrastinate.

• 57:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent. But then I'm like, I kind of fell in love with it in L A where it was just like, that guy doing that was just like, I don't know who this guy is, don't care. And then I had to like work on my way up, but in a way that was more pure, where it was like, I'm just gonna do what I love. And I was working with people over there that just kind of like, it shed, it pulled away all of the, the kind of mess that, that kind of

• 57:36Speaker 00

  created this thing in my head, you know, about creativity.

• 57:39Steven Bartlett?

  And that's the kind of a process of like reinvention, right? You're kind of reinventing yourself from, from again, because the expectation is gone?

• 57:45Speaker 00

  No, not reinventing, um, realizing.

• 57:50Steven Bartlett?

  Realizing, hmm.

• 57:51Speaker 00

  Because reinvention is trying to get somewhere, realizing is actually going, this is who I am. Like peel away the onion, like what's underneath. And it's like, in that, for me, that's, that's.

• 58:05Speaker 00

  The most important thing in my career, the most important thing in my existence is to go, what's the rawest form of Lab, of my person, of my existence? What's, what's the rawest form of me even without this body? Like, what's the soul? What's, what's my centre saying?

• 58:23Steven Bartlett?

  What is that?

• 58:24Speaker 00

  Um, what do you mean, like?

• 58:26Steven Bartlett?

  What is the centre? Who is Lab? If, what's the purest form? If I peel back all those layers, layers on that onion, what is at the core of Lab?

• 58:36Steven Bartlett?

  It's a difficult question, one that I'd struggle to answer, so.

• 58:38Speaker 00

  No, I call it calling your tears.

• 58:40Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 58:40Speaker 00

  So sometimes, sometimes when I sing,

• 58:53Speaker 00

  I call this calling your tears, like, it's like, I wanna hear the fucking scent of you as well. I give you the scent of me and I wanna hear the scent of you. And even bummy notes, whatever the fuck is coming out, it's like, can I, can I, can I speak to you? Beyond your, like, oh, I have this thing and I've got money and I'm thinking, well, who's the guy? And I'm like, if I can sing and do this to you and you see you and you, and, and we both see, uh, uh, beyond our flesh, beyond the things that bind us on, on earth. Um, that shit for me is like, that's what I wanna see. That's, that's what I'm always trying to get to. Not, not what you were taught when you were five.

• 59:36Steven Bartlett?

  Not my mask.

• 59:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, you know what I mean? Not what was, was given to you or you were raised into, like, it's like, what's, what does your soul want? What, what is, like, what's your soul's song as well? And so like, when I'm singing, I'm like, like, for me, um, frequency has, is, is a language as well, like music, of course, yeah, like, hearing a melody, you can, you can hear a feeling from it, you can hear something saying something to you, that's why we listen to music, we're like, it speaks to me. And I'm like, uh, can I speak to you? Can I, can I actually truthfully speak to you beyond the bullshit? And usually, frequency is.

• 1:00:19Speaker 00

  One of our like most powerful languages, like literally everything is by vibration. Like uh everything on earth is vibrating. That's how like and that's how we can identify a lot of things. You can feel energy if you get me. So for me, I'm like getting to the core of that is like the most exciting thing for me. Every time I go into the studio, I wanna be there, but I'm fighting uh to to get away from needing to please. Like and that's that clouds my mission all the time.

• 1:00:58Steven Bartlett?

  Still today?

• 1:00:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, hundred percent. Without that. But but it's not as loud as it used to be.

• 1:01:06Steven Bartlett?

  You've got music coming out soon?

• 1:01:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:01:07Steven Bartlett?

  What was what's the process been like making this this new body of?

• 1:01:10Speaker 00

  It was fun.

• 1:01:11Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah?

• 1:01:11Speaker 00

  It was fun. It was fast. Um I I worked with a band, my band LSD, me and C R and Diplo have a band. And in that, in working with C R, I kind of learnt how to let go a bit. And um when I went to go write my album, after the long album, the long number two, um I just kind of was like, yeah, let's just do just do something, just do it, let it go. Don't think about it. I did think I did end up thinking about it a little later on because I've had the album for a while. But um it was, I just was like, I enjoy these

• 1:01:49Speaker 00

  melodies, I enjoy what I'm doing, I'm gonna leave it there. And I'm uh alongside Euphoria, I was like, um it kind of, a lot of these things were teaching me to do that, like come out of that, the pleasing and just go, what are you hearing? Write what you hear from the sky and that's it. And just leave it there. So that's what I did with this record as well.

• 1:02:11Steven Bartlett?

  How much is this record a reflection of how you're feeling and where you are in your mind and your psychology? How much of that is reflected through the music and what you've created?

• 1:02:20Speaker 00

  I believe that this record is one of the steps towards um.

• 1:02:27Speaker 00

  Me being naked, like I'm, I don't think I'm as naked as I wanna be yet. But, but um, I, I believe that it's getting me there. And like, even with this album was dedicated to my misses. Um, a lot of the songs on the album were dedicated to my misses. Because like I was talking about where she stood up for me and supported me uh through the music, through like my experiences. Um, uh, I kind of wanted to, I turned our relationship in the music industry into a um, like two lovers, uh Bonnie and Clyde riding through the, the cosmos. So, so literally it's like uh natural born killers in space. That's what the whole album was.

• 1:03:09Speaker 00

  And that was my like um uh inspiration for the record is that it's all love songs. But um, all of the love songs are me taking photos of moments with my, with my wife and things we've been through together. Um, and so I didn't even write, I didn't write in a like way where it was like, I'm gonna say, oh, a couple of weeks ago on Saturday when this happened. No, it's not that. It's more, it's more, it's more like um loosely based on, on, on like those moments. And every song has like, is me uh um amplifying like uh like little moments that me and my wife have had.

• 1:03:52Steven Bartlett?

  Where do you get, where, where, like sort of physically, do you, does mo, does your inspiration show up?

• 1:03:59Speaker 00

  Everything is a song, bro.

• 1:04:01Steven Bartlett?

  Like?

• 1:04:01Speaker 00

  Everything.

• 1:04:02Steven Bartlett?

  In here, in the streets, in the, in the gym?

• 1:04:05Speaker 00

  This is song, this is a song, I wait for you. This bottle's sitting here and if you imagine that everything on earth is alive, this bottle was made just to sit here to wait to be poured into my, my cup. So that's a song, I wait for you. I wait for, at your beck and call, whenever you need me. And it's like, I'm, I'm, I'm turning this bottle into a person and I'm like, oh, um, um.

• 1:04:31Speaker 00

  Don't you know how long I've needed to be wanted? Or don't, don't you know I have my own things or things I want for myself, if you get me? So every, every like little thing like um can be like, like turned into or dramatized into a song, you know? Like, does that make sense?

• 1:04:51Steven Bartlett?

  Make sure I wait for you and I'll nutritionally complete.

• 1:04:56Speaker 00

  It is that, I'll complete you.

• 1:04:58Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:59Speaker 00

  Like I'm, I'm, I'm, it's like I'm, I'll be your servant. It's like, um, um, but like, when is my moment? Like, or you can just find things in it, like, there's just one thing sitting there and like, start to uh peel the onion of, okay. What would it feel like if I just had to sit there? Like I was created and I just had to sit there to replenish somebody's health, like.

• 1:05:22Steven Bartlett?

  Have you always thought like that? Cause that's quite an abstract way to think, like the, the metaphor, the symbolism of what that bottle is doing there. A lot of people would say, oh, that's a, you know, a drink.

• 1:05:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's everything, bro.

• 1:05:36Steven Bartlett?

  And have you cultivated yourself to think in such a way over time where you've lent into that? Or is that something that you've just always had as a?

• 1:05:43Speaker 00

  Nah, that's, that's it, that's it for me, like with everything is like.

• 1:05:48Speaker 00

  Cause I guess, um, like you're saying with growing up, um, you're going, how do people see the world? And you try to see the world through other people's eyes, especially with, when you grow up with like either traumas or like an intense home. You learn to kind of observe a lot. And so like in observation, you go into like.

• 1:06:07Steven Bartlett?

  Storytelling almost.

• 1:06:08Speaker 00

  Bro, like, it's like layers and layers of storytelling, like, um, yeah. So I just see every, every song, even sounds for me have colors, sounds for me have pictures. Um, so I always have an idea, usually what scares the idea away is people pleasing, honestly. Like I know, I, I know what my idea is, but it's like learning how to, in a business. Um, especially that we go from writing in our bedrooms to becoming CEOs of companies without knowing it. Um, you have to learn how to run your business and turn, like get your business to articulate what you wanna say. Without being frightened of judgment.

• 1:06:48Steven Bartlett?

  I'm lab that just got signed to Psycho.

• 1:06:50Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:06:51Steven Bartlett?

  Day one of Psycho, I get to meet you here now and I get to come and ask you for advice. I'm, I'm you on that day that you sign with Psycho. What advice do you give me?

• 1:07:01Speaker 00

  To live your life, whatever it's supposed to be. And I don't, I won't take back anything that's happened. Honestly, like, because um I believe that um everything happens to build you and I wouldn't have learnt the things I've learnt in order to become who I am today. So all my challenges are turning me into who I'm supposed to be, so.

• 1:07:22Steven Bartlett?

  Do you think if you'd told me, do you think if you'd given me advice? So I'm here, you know, when you signed that deal with Psycho. Do you think if you'd given me the advice, I would have listened?

• 1:07:30Speaker 00

  No, uh, no, no, no, I, I wouldn't have listened. To me, I would have been like, I'd be like, yeah, man, people love my music, let's go. Like, uh, cause you just don't know, innit? You don't know what you're gonna experience. Um, yeah, so I would, I would, I would say go and experience what you need to experience. Cause like, you're gonna head to your, to your north in whatever way you can. And, and some people don't ever find their north because they don't learn to go, okay, um, let me take a look at myself, you know, like, I think that's the, the my dad did that, the way he just, he wasn't able to be vulnerable enough to go, okay, maybe this or maybe, uh, like, could I change this? Or actually, I'm not happy here, you know? Um, um, and so I feel like if you can do that in your life,

• 1:08:16Speaker 00

  um, I don't think anything's wrong with it. I think, um, you, you'll be able to find your north, like, by, by being able to observe yourself.

• 1:08:24Steven Bartlett?

  What are your goals now?

• 1:08:26Speaker 00

  To make the cosmic opera. Bye, dad. Okay, boy, it's mad.

• 1:08:32Steven Bartlett?

  No, tell me, that's your goal, I wanna hear it.

• 1:08:33Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, yeah, I do, I wanna make an opera.

• 1:08:36Steven Bartlett?

  You wanna make an opera?

• 1:08:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, I wanna write an opera, can hear the sounds, can hear how it looks, feels. Um, and, um, yeah, I just, I wanna, I wanna like make, um.

• 1:08:53Speaker 00

  Like, uh, I wanna do things with choirs that nobody's done. I can hear all these things that I'm like, nobody's done this, I'm gonna go do it. Like, literally, I'm there.

• 1:09:02Steven Bartlett?

  Do you know, we did this podcast live with a live gospel choir, toured up and down the country.

• 1:09:05Speaker 00

  Oh, really?

• 1:09:07Steven Bartlett?

  The House Gospel Choir?

• 1:09:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, that's my sister's choir. Well, my sister was in that choir, yeah, yeah, I'm sure, she has all. She used to work with, um, uh, what's it, the House Gospel, she was part of making it, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:09:18Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, it was crazy. So we had this like thirty, forty person choir, the band.

• 1:09:21Speaker 00

  Love it.

• 1:09:21Steven Bartlett?

  And it's this mixture between like, the visual, so the video would come in and it would like crackle from people on this podcast.

• 1:09:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:09:27Steven Bartlett?

  And then you'd have me with spoken words and then the choir would come in and like, say the message in music, if that makes sense.

• 1:09:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:09:32Steven Bartlett?

  So I might be talking about the struggle I had with like, um, the, the one self doubt and then the other young ambitious kid that knew he wanted to be a millionaire.

• 1:09:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:09:41Steven Bartlett?

  Because he was insecure, whatever.

• 1:09:43Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:09:43Steven Bartlett?

  And on one hand, you've got, wait till I get my money. And then you've got Niles Barkley.

• 1:09:47Speaker 00

  I think you're crazy.

• 1:09:49Steven Bartlett?

  And it was that kind of like battle of like music and stuff.

• 1:09:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, bro, you're doing it, man. That's exactly it. Doesn't suck to all of it, is it?

• 1:09:56Steven Bartlett?

  But it is for, for me.

• 1:09:58Speaker 00

  Do you get afraid now? Do you ever?

• 1:10:00Steven Bartlett?

  Afraid of?

• 1:10:01Speaker 00

  I'm just saying, do you, do you feel, do, do, uh, do you feel maybe used to your fears now?

• 1:10:07Steven Bartlett?

  So like stepping out on stage at the London Pladium, we did, we opened up at the London Pladium and stepping out on stage at London Pladium, never having done this before in front of people. And knowing that they'd bought tickets without having any idea what they'd bought tickets to. They're expecting a live podcast, so they're expecting this on stage.

• 1:10:21Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:10:21Steven Bartlett?

  And then there's choir, and you know, there was a moment of that where you've just got to be at peace with the uncertainty.

• 1:10:26Speaker 00

  Okay, yeah.

• 1:10:27Steven Bartlett?

  And all the great things come from being at peace with the uncertainty.

• 1:10:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:10:31Steven Bartlett?

  You know, which is.

• 1:10:32Speaker 00

  Do you feel like maybe your peace with the uncertainty comes from your parents?

• 1:10:37Steven Bartlett?

  Yes. So I would say, my parents were so absent from my life. Like, my mom and dad were like, my mom was never in when I got home, she was never in when I woke up, so I got to play.

• 1:10:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, okay.

• 1:10:46Steven Bartlett?

  Kind of experiment, if you know what I mean.

• 1:10:47Speaker 00

  That makes sense, yeah.

• 1:10:48Steven Bartlett?

  So then you start building evidence in yourself, like, well, I tried this thing and it kind of works.

• 1:10:51Speaker 00

  Yes, yeah, yeah.

• 1:10:51Steven Bartlett?

  You kind of never unlearn that lesson. You never, you, once you've seen behind that curtain that you can just try stuff.

• 1:10:56Speaker 00

  Yes. And are you okay with the, um, um, like, if it bombed, would you be okay?

• 1:11:03Steven Bartlett?

  The honest answer.

• 1:11:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:11:04Steven Bartlett?

  So if it bombed, bombed, no, because.

• 1:11:09Steven Bartlett?

  No, no, no, because it's crazy because like, I remember, I remember, you know, the feedback we got is like, nothing I've ever got in my career. But you get that one message.

• 1:11:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:11:18Steven Bartlett?

  That goes, that was fucking weird.

• 1:11:21Steven Bartlett?

  And I'm thinking about it the next night before I go out. I'm thinking that one person said it was fucking weird.

• 1:11:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, I feel you.

• 1:11:26Steven Bartlett?

  Even though we have like.

• 1:11:28Speaker 00

  Everyone's, this is brilliant. I loved it. And you're just like, that one guy. Yeah, I feel you.

• 1:11:32Steven Bartlett?

  Because, because a search for validation can be a real motivator in your life. It can force you to like, go out there and do great stuff.

• 1:11:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:11:38Steven Bartlett?

  But at the same time, it also makes you really susceptible to criticism.

• 1:11:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, it does.

• 1:11:42Steven Bartlett?

  It drives you, but then it scares you. You know, it's like.

• 1:11:45Speaker 00

  But if you, like, that's what I love about hip hop. I was watching, um, hip hop evolution. And loads of the guys on there, they kind of were just like, we're already the scumbags of the earth to this country. Like, there's nothing to lose. And I kind of, when I watch it, I'm just like, I love the like, they just, they just go and do anything because it was just like, well, like, I have one out, a record on an album called Only Way Is Up, yeah? And I, I say, um, the only way is up, um, what's it? It was like, um, basically like, yeah, the only way is up, like, it's like, we literally, if you're at the pit of, of the bottom, it's like, there's nothing else to do. So it's just like,

• 1:12:25Speaker 00

  they were just like, I'm going for, I'm, I'm taking it all. And that's where hip hop turned into, well, it's like a massive industry now, like, and it wasn't. It started from a guy just being on like, turned on turntables, you know, so. Sometimes I get inspired by seeing that.

• 1:12:43Steven Bartlett?

  When your next project comes out, say every song on the album gets a trillion views. It's the first album ever to get a trillion views on every record, right?

• 1:12:50Speaker 00

  Next time you see me, I'm gonna be like, yeah, what's going on?

• 1:12:53Steven Bartlett?

  I probably won't say.

• 1:12:54Speaker 00

  Lab, why are you speaking like that? No, what do you mean? How am I speaking? Just with glasses, just looking down.

• 1:13:00Steven Bartlett?

  Your entourage is really tinted car shit.

• 1:13:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's right. Lab doesn't want to talk right now. Why are you speaking about yourself in the first verse?

• 1:13:08Steven Bartlett?

  But are you scared of that?

• 1:13:10Speaker 00

  What, of becoming a digger?

• 1:13:11Steven Bartlett?

  No, no, no, no, no. That too, but like, if, if, if your next album, you get a trillion views on every record, here comes expectation again. Suddenly you've got something to lose again.

• 1:13:22Speaker 00

  No, burn it down every time.

• 1:13:24Steven Bartlett?

  You'll burn it down.

• 1:13:24Speaker 00

  Burn it down, just burn down the house, like, uh, and it's so beautiful to, to like, to be free of expectation of your own and of, of your own expectation as well. For me, it's like, you're like Forrest Gump, man, you could do anything like with that when you're free from, and free, uh, funny, my son, this is his favorite song right now, free from desire, man, um, but anyway. But when you are free from desire, in terms of like, the need for an, like, a reception or the need for validation, it's like, if you actually put that down, if you said, I don't need validation, you're like, you're just gonna go do anything, bro, like, you'll just go ham, you know?

• 1:14:06Speaker 00

  And some people are born like, kind of have that, like, it's just in them where they're just like, well, maybe they're scared, but they, they don't show it and they're just able to just move on really fast and they have insane resilience. And I'm like, if I had that, um, like, what would I have done? What would I have done? And, and I'm not a person to go back to the past, but, but I'm like, like, how free would it be and how freeing would it be if you could just go, cool, that didn't work, let's go, like, and not even that didn't work, just, I'm gonna do what I'm here to do, which is make music.

• 1:14:40Steven Bartlett?

  Do you see any of your peers or anyone in the industry? It's funny, I was thinking of Kanye West, I mean, controversial figure, but he seems to not give a fuck about.

• 1:14:47Speaker 00

  He really doesn't. I've worked with him, yeah, yeah, he's, um, uh, and it was inspiring and, and that's, do you know what, even with Kanye,

• 1:14:55Speaker 00

  he's mad controversial, mad, it's, it's, yeah, it's a lot, but, um,

• 1:15:02Speaker 00

  I guess he's intense for the world, but being in his creative environment was one of the most inspiring, um, I've had, and I, I wasn't a Kanye fan, like, I wasn't like, oh, I've listened to all your albums, I know every song, like, I literally was put with Kanye, through a manager, and they were like, Labs fucking next hottest artist, do you wanna work with him? And then I, I got a yes, and then I went into the camp, so I started working with all these amazing musicians and producers, and it was just like, it feels like what I love, which is. Uh, hear it, do it. Uh, um, um, it's got no, nothing on the periphery affects the, the, the, the vision of

• 1:15:46Speaker 00

  what, what is head, what he's headed for, especially in that environment. Sometimes maybe, I don't know. He personally, when he's uh, uh, uh, home on his own, uh, it's affected, but, but it was just the vibe in there was just like, it felt like true creativity. Um, but like, I can't say anything about, yeah, like, I don't know what mission he's on, like.

• 1:16:06Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, it's funny because I've had Dame Dash here like a week ago and Dame said Jay-Z's all about the money, Kanye's all about the art.

• 1:16:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:16:12Steven Bartlett?

  And that seems to be what's reflected from what you see from the outside.

• 1:16:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:16:16Steven Bartlett?

  Going back, so I asked you a question earlier about your goal.

• 1:16:18Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:16:19Steven Bartlett?

  And you said about the Cosmic Orchestra.

• 1:16:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:16:22Steven Bartlett?

  That, that's a, that's, I guess that's a goal. Is there like a bigger, a mission you're on or is it?

• 1:16:27Speaker 00

  I, I think I've simplified my desires and it's like, I just wanna be a tap. I wanna be a tap and sounds very, um,

• 1:16:37Speaker 00

  it sounds very, um, wispy, but like to be a tap for the universe and what I mean by the universe is that. I, I personally believe that we are all connected to a, a, a source and, um, if we're all connected to that source, everyone has their, everyone's a kaleidoscope. And when this source shines through our kaleidoscopes, you see these unique, beautiful things as, uh, but, but we have to make our kaleidoscope as pure as possible, meaning to get out of our own ways to be the kaleidoscope that we're supposed to be in. For me, I feel like I'm seeing some of your kaleidoscope and, and you made a decision to change your world

• 1:17:23Speaker 00

  or to change your maybe facade that you had at the time to become who you, who you need to be and you click, clean the window, you know? And so for me, I'm like, if I can clean my window and, and shine light as purely as possible and do some shit that I didn't even know I could do, for me, that's a job well done, honestly, like in all truth. But the only thing that gets in the way is fear, self doubt and all the, all the stuff that like the industry needing to make money, like needing to be validated, gets in the way of. Like, oh shit, I'm supposed to be cleaning the window. Like, that's what I keep doing. I'll keep going back to like, oh, okay, sorry, I forgot.

• 1:18:04Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:18:07Speaker 00

  Can I clean? So that's what I wanna do, clean windows.

• 1:18:12Steven Bartlett?

  It's a really interesting analogy about being most authentic self.

• 1:18:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's it for me. But it's easier said than done. We're always saying it online and, oh, I wanna speak my truth. I'm like, that stuff doesn't mean anything to me. It's just to purely, and you know when you're lying to yourself. The only person that knows you're lying to you is you, like, and, and sometimes you don't know when you're lying to yourself if you're not looking properly. But when you look, when you truly look, you're like, okay, I'm lying. And so for me, cleaning the window is knowing when I'm lying. And then being like, okay, cool, let's go. We're going back to truth? Yes, let's do it.

• 1:18:52Steven Bartlett?

  I mean, much of the reason why, you know, I've always resonated with your music and I view it as art. You know, even I was listening to it all again today, going through the albums, going through some of your new stuff.

• 1:19:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:19:04Steven Bartlett?

  Is because you have that, it's, it so clearly comes from, it feels like it comes from a very authentic place.

• 1:19:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:19:12Steven Bartlett?

  Like, you're not, I've not heard these sounds before.

• 1:19:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:19:15Steven Bartlett?

  You know what I mean? That's what I get. Even when I go to, even when I listen to Pass Out again, I was, there's so many layers to this that like, there's some like, garagy, grimy stuff, and then you've got the little afro, you know, it's all, it's all in there.

• 1:19:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:19:27Steven Bartlett?

  And this is someone.

• 1:19:28Speaker 00

  That's how I, you know, when you asked me what happens when I listen back, I'm like, oh, is that how I look? It's like, you're like, oh, like, cause there's self doubt is so heavy sometimes that you don't even know how you look. And it's like, somebody could be like, you're so beautiful. And you're like, I'm seeing warts, I'm seeing weird shit. And then you, you, your, your idea of yourself is so distorted. So when I listen back to old stuff, sometimes I'm like,

• 1:19:54Steven Bartlett?

  It's like music.

• 1:19:55Speaker 00

  I'm like, well done, kids. I'm like, man, like, it feels, feels like you're, you've got your own identity. And I'm like, I, I, I almost end up saying to that 24 year old, like, I'm like, bro, I'm proud of you, like, like, that's so fun. Like, I, I, I feel you, like, and I didn't at the time. At the time, I was like, I don't know what I'm doing, you know? So it's nice to kind of observe from a distance and be like grandfather going, well done.

• 1:20:20Steven Bartlett?

  Well done, man. Are you happy now?

• 1:20:23Speaker 00

  Am I happy now? And yes, I I definitely happy as a father. That changes your life massively. And so I think.

• 1:20:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, I I think I'm super happy.

• 1:20:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, like, like, I I I like to think about that when someone asks me a question.

• 1:20:44Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, because it's easy to just go, yeah, you.

• 1:20:45Speaker 00

  How are you?

• 1:20:45Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, yeah, I'm great, man. Yeah, and it's difficult and some people think it's a shitty question because first you've got to define what happy means and happy is a mood. And it's like, you know, I'm sad, happy. It's it's a kind of a visceral mood.

• 1:20:57Speaker 00

  Maybe you should ask me, am I content?

• 1:20:59Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, or fulfilled or something.

• 1:21:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, I'm content. I I think with fulfillment, I'm I'm getting there. No, I'm I'm I'm cleaning the window all the time. So it's like realizing it's returning back to fulfillment, if that makes sense.

• 1:21:13Steven Bartlett?

  So if that fulfillment was a recipe consisting of different ingredients and different quantities.

• 1:21:18Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:21:18Steven Bartlett?

  Right? So you need one egg. If you have two eggs, the recipe goes off. It's all about, you know, with recipes, it's all about balance and constructing the ingredients you need to create the perfect dish. If your fulfillment is a recipe list, is there anything missing off that that you believe now would make you would make that recipe perfect? For me, it's been balance. It's just workaholic. That's kind of like an addiction that I have because of early stuff.

• 1:21:41Speaker 00

  Yep, same, yeah.

• 1:21:42Steven Bartlett?

  So trying to make sure I'm investing in my romantic relationships and my friendships.

• 1:21:46Speaker 00

  For real.

• 1:21:47Steven Bartlett?

  So I can feel more.

• 1:21:47Speaker 00

  Same with my kids and my family. Like, yeah, that balance. But fulfillment is, for me, is.

• 1:21:57Speaker 00

  Desiring nothing, contributing everything. That's how I feel like. And it's like, and and maybe the only one desire is to to remain.

• 1:22:07Speaker 00

  Present enough to be able to receive.

• 1:22:11Speaker 00

  From what I'm contributing to. Does that make sense?

• 1:22:13Steven Bartlett?

  Perfect sense. Or else you're not going to be there to hear it. You're going to be in the future.

• 1:22:17Speaker 00

  I won't even enjoy it. I won't even, yeah. My kid will be smiling at me and I'm like looking over.

• 1:22:21Steven Bartlett?

  Onto the next.

• 1:22:22Speaker 00

  Their heads like.

• 1:22:23Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:23Speaker 00

  Wow, how do I get more? How do I get a trillion views?

• 1:22:27Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah. Have you got better at that, being present to it to experience the joy of life?

• 1:22:31Speaker 00

  Bro, it's the best. When you're present with your kids, it's the best. Like, you learn so much stuff. My kid said, like, she loves the moon and she asked me, does moonstones fall from the moon? And she said, they give me, the moon gives me moonstones all the time. And she's like, shall we give them back? And I was like, I was like, no, no, I think it was given to you as a present. But just like hearing stuff like that for me is like, it's like magic. Like, it's just hearing a magical mind stay in it's like, I'm still

• 1:23:06Speaker 00

  appreciating the world in this magical way when we make it about a trillion views, you know? Like, same with my son as well. Just, he smells flowers. And like, he really like, if he sees a flower, he points at it and he wants to really feel it and connect with it and enjoy it. And then he'll go around giving everyone a flower and saying, smell it for yourself. But seeing that for me is like, he made something that I ignore because I'm just so used to it. Like, super magical.

• 1:23:42Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, beautiful. And it's, yeah, I was thinking about my dog there as well. How he simplified my life. Just like, I used to say, like, I'd come home from like the busy day, all these problems and the dog is there just fucking around with his Lucas A bottle.

• 1:23:54Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 1:23:54Steven Bartlett?

  Having the time of his life. And he's like, fucking chase me dad. He's like bringing it close and taking it. And I'm like, you don't understand how simple. Well, in fact, I've overcomplicated the world. He understands how simple and wonderful it is.

• 1:24:05Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 1:24:05Steven Bartlett?

  But I've lost sight of that with my, with my wisdom or with my experience.

• 1:24:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:24:10Steven Bartlett?

  We have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest asks a question for the next guest. They don't know who they're asking it for.

• 1:24:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:24:17Steven Bartlett?

  They just write it in this diary.

• 1:24:20Steven Bartlett?

  This guest is handwriting challenged, so give me a second.

• 1:24:25Speaker 00

  My teacher used to call it chicken scratches.

• 1:24:27Steven Bartlett?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:24:28Speaker 00

  Because it looks a bit.

• 1:24:29Steven Bartlett?

  This is like chicken scratches. Okay. What are you not saying yes to in your life that demands to be said?

• 1:24:43Speaker 00

  What am I not saying yes to that demands to be said?

• 1:24:48Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, I think, I think what they mean is like, what are you not saying yes to that demands a yes?

• 1:24:52Speaker 00

  Ah, yes, yeah, yeah. Um, nothing.

• 1:24:57Speaker 00

  Saying yes to all the stuff I wanna say yes to.

• 1:25:02Speaker 00

  Right?

• 1:25:04Steven Bartlett?

  Is there anything inside you that's that's asking you to like step into it? And accept it that you're not saying yes to?

• 1:25:12Speaker 00

  Okay, uh, no, no, I, okay, so if we're going from there, um, uh, um.

• 1:25:22Speaker 00

  I think accepting what is.

• 1:25:25Speaker 00

  Um, and, and, uh, yeah, just accepting what is like not getting, um, dragged into.

• 1:25:32Speaker 00

  What it could be. And when you accept what is, you're like, this is sick, like you just fall in love with it because you're appreciating it for what it is. You know, so I think it's that constantly remembering that. But that's, that's a yes for the rest of your life.

• 1:25:50Steven Bartlett?

  Lab, um, thank you so much for, for this conversation. Thank you for being here. I, you are a musical genius.

• 1:25:56Speaker 00

  I respect, bro. I appreciate that.

• 1:25:57Steven Bartlett?

  No, you are, cause, cause I can't really think of artists that have come out of the UK. I've come out of fucking Hackney that have the like, the creative diversity. That you have, we don't have, like, the honestly, the only other person I think of is, I'm like Kanye, you know, and I'm a big.

• 1:26:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, I feel you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I feel you. Yeah.

• 1:26:17Steven Bartlett?

  Well, I, I believe you could, I believe with that sort of creative palette and the diversity of your creativity and where you see inspiration in a fucking Huel bottle. Which is nutritionally complete hashtag ad on the table. Um, it's really genius. It's a real special genius. And with that comes a lot of challenge, as we see with Kanye as well, but. But it's a real special genius that I think, as you say, if the windows can remain clean.

• 1:26:39Speaker 00

  Bro, that's it for me.

• 1:26:40Steven Bartlett?

  It's gonna serve the world in a remarkable way, as it has done already for you in your life. And, you know, the things you've done with movies, the music and. You talk, talk to me about this opera. I, I bet see and believe it all and I can't wait.

• 1:26:51Speaker 00

  I gotta come, yeah, when, when, once I got it somewhere, you've got to come and listen.

• 1:26:54Steven Bartlett?

  Please, let me come.

• 1:26:56Speaker 00

  This is the worst music I've ever noticed.

• 1:27:00Steven Bartlett?

  Listen, I'll clean the windows. I don't care. Let me, I'll help you clean the windows so we can get this cosmic orchestra going.

• 1:27:06Speaker 00

  Oh man, I'm down, I'm down. I would love for you to hear it, but yeah, like, I'm definitely excited about this.

• 1:27:11Steven Bartlett?

  I appreciate you. So I'm honored to meet you and I can't wait to see this next project and all the projects that you bring to the world in the future.

• 1:27:18Speaker 00

  Thank you so much.

• 1:27:19Steven Bartlett?

  Respect. Thanks.