Episode 340

In the quiet backroads of Dallas County, Missouri, investigators uncovered a nightmare hidden in plain sight. Cassidy Rainwater, a young woman whose search for stability led her to a remote cabin. What seemed at first like an isolated disappearance soon unraveled into something far darker. Disturbing digital evidence, cryptic messages, and chilling interviews revealed just how calculated and sinister the truth really was. Get instant access to all episodes, including premium unreleased episodes, commercial-free at swordandscale.com

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Mike Boudet?

  Buy smart, drive for less and trade for more. That's Toyota Fortability. And it all starts with a great deal on a truck from your local Toyota dealer. Make a smart buy on the off-road-ready Tacoma or half-ton Tundra, two of Toyota's most capable and long-lasting trucks. Built with the strength for the tough jobs, the tech to power your next big adventures, and the rugged style for everything in between. Or discover Toyota's off-road lineup, including the iconic 4Runner and Land Cruiser, designed to go beyond the everyday. And with Toyota's proven reputation for quality and reliability, plus available hybrid power

• 0:43Mike Boudet?

  on many models, you can get more for every mile and drive for less along the way. And long after you leave a lot, your Toyota keeps delivering with great resale value. So you can trade in for more when you're ready for your next Toyota. From a great deal today to a great value tomorrow, a Toyota is right for you. Shop toyota.com for deals and details, or stop by your local Toyota dealer today. Toyota, let's go places.

• 1:14Speaker 01

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down. Rather than giving teens the answer, study mode helps teens work through problems and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default, and parental controls offer families additional options, like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.comPARENTS to learn more.

• 1:42Speaker 02

  Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence, and is not intended for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised.

• 1:54Speaker 03

  Did it seem strange to you that you were taking human flesh inside into the tub? Yes.

• 2:02Mike Boudet?

  Welcome to Sword and Scale, a show that reveals that the worst monsters are real.

• 2:17Mike Boudet?

  If you like true crime documentaries, we make them. Just head on over to our YouTube channel or website, swordscale.com, for more info on Sword and Scale Television. These are hour-long documentaries, cinematic, really beautiful, beautifully shot documentaries about, you know, murder.

• 3:06Mike Boudet?

  Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability. And it all starts with a great deal on a truck from your local Toyota dealer. Make a smart buy on the off-road-ready Tacoma or half-ton Tundra, two of Toyota's most capable and long-lasting trucks. Built with the strength for the tough jobs, the tech to power your next big adventures, and the rugged style for everything in between. Or discover Toyota's off-road lineup, including the iconic 4Runner and Land Cruiser, designed to go beyond the everyday. And with Toyota's proven reputation for quality and reliability, plus available hybrid power

• 3:49Mike Boudet?

  on many models, you can get more for every mile and drive for less along the way. And long after you leave a lot, your Toyota keeps delivering with great resale value. So you can trade in for more when you're ready for your next Toyota. From a great deal today to a great value tomorrow, a Toyota is right for you. Shoptoyota.com for deals and details, or stop by your local Toyota dealer today. Toyota, let's go places.

• 4:35Mike Boudet?

  On October 4th, 2021, firefighters rush to 386 Moon Valley Road in Dallas County, Missouri. The name sounds like it should be printed on a postcard. "Moon Valley" makes you think of a serene getaway with cozy cabins and campfires. In reality, Moon Valley Road is a boring strip of gravel that cuts through dense Ozark woods. These trees are so thick that they almost block out the sky when you look up from the ground. The nights are so dark you can't see your hand in front of you. There are no streetlights, no neighbors in sight, only the kind of isolation where bad

• 5:19Mike Boudet?

  things happen without anyone noticing. By the time they get there, the fire is already out of control. Nothing on the property can be salvaged. Flames shoot out of every building and don't stop burning until they've destroyed them all. After the fires are finally out, a Dallas County deputy steps onto the property. The ground is soft and sooty with wet ash. The black mud sticks to his boots and smoke is seeping from the rubble. The cabin is a shell now, with the roof collapsed and the windows blown out. The outbuildings are mostly gone.

• 6:00Mike Boudet?

  In the middle of the cabin's rubble stands a lone familiar piece of furniture: a bathtub. The deputy wades through the debris, scanning with a flashlight. Then his beam catches a wire, stretched tight, almost invisible, still attached to two scorched posts. He freezes. It's a tripwire. He knows that if he moves the wrong way, he could trigger it and blow them all to pieces. His eyes follow it carefully, and his focus is locked on the wire until it leads to a device buried in the rubble. They call the bomb squad, who detonates one device on site and removes two more.

• 6:44Mike Boudet?

  These are homemade bombs. The fire marshal will make the easy call. This was arson.

• 6:52Speaker 04

  Scarcely but solid details being released on what could have caused a late-night fire on Moon Valley Road. Hours before Cassidy Rainwater's suspected kidnappers were due in court, a cabin where James Phelps and Timothy Norton had been living burned to the ground. A report obtained by Ozarks First today shows the Springfield Bomb Squad discovered not one, but two explosive devices among the ashes. And while it doesn't say whether the fire was set intentionally, it does list what equipment was taken by investigators. The report calls them incendiary devices, made with mortar tubes, balloons, and coiled fuses with a tripwire attached. A Springfield fire marshal says one of the explosives was detonated on site, but what

• 7:34Speaker 04

  happened to the second device has not yet been released.

• 7:38Mike Boudet?

  The Missouri Ozarks cover more than 40,000 square miles of rough, isolated country, over half the state, and twice the size of Switzerland. The Ozarks aren't a true mountain range, but a high, ancient plateau of limestone carved over millions of years. These limestone hills fold into deep valleys. Caves run for miles underground, and rivers disappear into sinkholes without a trace. And a lot of the roads are narrow and surrounded by woods. What goes on in the hollows is anyone's guess. Tourists come here for the fishing cabins, float trips, and lake towns.

• 8:21Mike Boudet?

  But the Ozarks have another side. Civil War Confederates used these woods to disappear, and then ambush their enemies. Prohibition gangs built stills so far back in the timber that no one dared to go there. Meth cooks and armed weed growers still guard their territory like they're at war. And then, there are the legends. Weird lights moving through the trees with no source. Numerous Bigfoot sightings, and whispers of feral people living in the backcountry.

• 8:58Mike Boudet?

  Out here, it's easy to go missing, and even easier to stay that way. Thirty-three-year-old Cassidy Rainwater didn't just disappear all at once. It happened slowly and under the radar. The kind of missing persons case that didn't start with a 911 call, but with a gap in contact that kept getting longer.

• 9:20Speaker 05

  Cassidy was a free-spirited girl. Loud, uh, if she walked in a room, everybody knew she was there. But she, uh, she had a beautiful soul.

• 9:35Mike Boudet?

  She was born on June 9th, 1988, near Lebanon, Missouri. Officially, Cassidy's parents were Clifford Welch and Tracy Wawasuk. But she went by Rainwater, a Native American name tied to someone in her past, her grandfather, who happened to own land on Moon Valley Road, near where she was last seen. Cassidy had her first child with a high school boyfriend named Ben. The couple tried to make it work for the sake of their baby, but they chose to put him up for adoption at some point. Regardless, she and Ben remained on good terms. Later, she remarried and had other children with that partner.

• 10:18Mike Boudet?

  Reports say that she was still legally married in 2021, but living apart. By the summer of 2021, Cassidy's life was unsettled. She'd been moving between places, looking for stability. Her first partner, Ben, remembered being worried about her.

• 10:36Speaker 06

  She was in a bad way. Like, at that time, I'm pretty sure she was homeless. And she and I were talking, and just like, you know, "Come, you know, come to Kansas City, we'll get things figured out."

• 10:48Mike Boudet?

  Searching for a place to stay eventually led her to a small property on Moon Valley Road. A remote rental cabin occupied by 60-year-old Jim Phelps and owned by a man named John. John knew Cassidy's grandparents and suggested she talk with the guy living there. Jim, living in the cabin, had a soft spot for taking in women and girls, but none of them ever said anything negative about him.

• 11:13Speaker 07

  Okay, Jim is a friend, once again. He let me stay with him from time to time when I was having a hard time. I have a lot of health problems, so it's hard for me to work, which is why I'm getting a job to where I can work on my own time now, since I get my car fixed. But Jim, he was really kind. He was a sweet guy, but when I met him, he was a really kind guy. He was caring, he was really nice, no sexual relations, stuff like that out there. I mean, I've met Jim's family, I've met Tim's family, they know me, I know them.

• 11:55Mike Boudet?

  Amanda didn't just stumble into this story. Her paths here started months earlier, when she met 56-year-old Tim Norton, Jim's best friend. Amanda met Tim through a friend who was engaged to his nephew and living there. At the time, Amanda was between homes, so she moved into Tim's trailer, which by all accounts was a disgusting pigpen. Tim was a long-haul trucker, and Amanda sometimes went along for the ride. Other times, she acted like his personal dispatcher, or helped with his finances. People assumed they were a couple. Amanda says that's ridiculous.

• 12:38Mike Boudet?

  He was too old for her. According to Amanda, she was just helping him in exchange for a place to live. I mean, he was 56 and she was 19. Nothing to see here, right?

• 12:53Mike Boudet?

  Months later, Amanda's living situation shifted again. The chaos of everyone living in the trailer wore her down. Tim suggested she go and stay at his buddy Jim's cabin for a while, so she did. On paper, it sounded like a quiet escape, a rural place with a name that could pass for a weekend getaway. But this was no campground. The cabin sat isolated, hidden from the road, with sheds of outbuildings scattered across the property. Amanda says her time there was temporary, but her connections with Jim and Tim were already cemented, and they were about to become a lot more than casual acquaintances.

• 13:38Mike Boudet?

  Let's circle back to Cassidy Rainwater. Amanda knew who she was because their time at Jim's cabin overlapped. Amanda remembered meeting her.

• 13:50Speaker 07

  I met her once. Me and Tim went over there because I had some mail to pick up because that's where my mailing address is right now. Me and her didn't really talk. She didn't, she was kind of quiet, which I get new person, I'm quiet too with new people. But she didn't really talk, she kind of stayed to herself and whenever I went to go do something in the car, and when I came back in, she had told Jim that she wanted to leave, that she wasn't comfortable with those too many people. Jim didn't tell her that people were coming over and she wasn't comfortable with it. It was just me, Jim, Tim, and her. Okay, that's it though?

• 14:35Speaker 07

  That was too many people? Yeah.

• 14:38Mike Boudet?

  It wasn't exactly a warm welcome. Cassidy, like Amanda, wasn't looking for new friends. You could say both women had retreated to the cabin for the same reason: to escape drama and conflict and piece themselves back together.

• 14:55Mike Boudet?

  The problem was that the place was starting to feel less like an isolated hideout and more like the worst kind of Airbnb. The kind where the host keeps allowing more guests to book the place without telling you. According to Amanda, the two tried to stay out of each other's way. This was around mid-July of 2021. By the time Cassidy went missing in late August, Amanda had already moved out.

• 15:23Speaker 07

  I did really, I tried not to get involved in too much because I just, I can't pay the stress. I was like, I looked at Jim and I said, "So how is Cassidy doing?" Because I was just kind of curious. Because I know she's been struggling with some stuff. And I was, and he was like, "I don't know, she left in the middle of the night." I was like, "Oh." And then later I found out that she was missing. I was like, "Oh, God." Until I read the article and I was like, "Oh, what the fuck happened?" And then, like I said, in the back of my mind, it was like, "That could have been me."

• 16:03Mike Boudet?

  In August, a friend noticed that it had been about six weeks since anyone had seen Cassidy. She was reported missing. The last person to admit seeing her was Jim. It wasn't the police who made the first big move in the case. It was the FBI. After someone sent them an email with photographs labeled "Cassidy." The first one showed a topless woman in a cage. And whoever sent it made sure the FBI knew exactly where to find her. Or at least, what was left of her.

• 16:53Mike Boudet?

  Buy smart, drive for less and trade for more. That's Toyota Fortability. And it all starts with a great deal on a truck from your local Toyota dealer. Make a smart buy on the off-road-ready Tacoma or half-ton Tundra, two of Toyota's most capable and long-lasting trucks. Built with the strength for the tough jobs, the tech to power your next big adventures, and the rugged style for everything in between. Or discover Toyota's off-road lineup, including the iconic 4Runner and Land Cruiser, designed to go beyond the everyday. And with Toyota's proven reputation for quality and reliability, plus available hybrid power

• 17:36Mike Boudet?

  on many models, you can get more for every mile and drive for less along the way. And long after you leave the lot, your Toyota keeps delivering with great resale value. So you can trade in for more when you're ready for your next Toyota. From a great deal today to a great value tomorrow, a Toyota is right for you. Shop toyota.com for deals and details, or stop by your local Toyota dealer today. Toyota, let's go places.

• 18:07Speaker 05

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel. People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood. And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone. One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies. So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat, it's about still having your seat at the table.

• 18:53Speaker 05

  Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

• 19:04Speaker 01

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down. Rather than giving teens the answer, study mode helps teens work through problems, and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default, and parental controls offer families additional options like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com/parents to learn more.

• 19:46Mike Boudet?

  In the summer of 2021, Jim Phelps was living in a small cabin on Moon Valley Road, a patch of rural Missouri surrounded by dense Ozark woods. He was a quiet, reclusive person who spent most of his time at the cabin. His closest friend, Tim Norton, was a long-haul trucker, also with a habit of keeping to himself. And yet, somehow, women kept finding their way to that cabin. One was a 19-year-old woman named Amanda. She also stayed at the cabin for a few weeks after life became too crowded at Tim's place. Cassidy Rainwater, whose life was unraveling, had come to the cabin searching for solitude

• 20:30Mike Boudet?

  and some kind of sanctuary. Like Amanda, she was private, guarded, not quick to share her world. Their paths only crossed briefly before Amanda moved out. A few weeks later, Cassidy was gone too. But unlike Amanda, she didn't choose her next destination. She simply disappeared. After six weeks with no sign of her, she was reported missing by a family member. The last person to have seen her was Jim Phelps.

• 21:04Mike Boudet?

  One night deputies drove out to Moon Valley Road. The cabin was lit only by a porch bulb and their headlights. Otherwise it was an opaque kind of darkness. They knocked, asking Jim where Cassidy was.

• 21:21Speaker 03

  Howdy, Sheriff's Office. Howdy, howdy. Howdy, so cute. Yeah, is Cassidy here? No. No? Haven't seen her in weeks. Really? Well, I'm trying to check on her. You know her, you know Cassidy. Yeah, I know her. Well, I've been trying to check on her.

• 21:43Mike Boudet?

  Jim Phelps, over six feet tall, bald, with glasses and a white beard, came to the cabin door, wearing only jeans and a dog tag around his neck. He looked relatively harmless, at least for Ozarkian Missouri.

• 22:00Speaker 03

  Do you have a phone number for her? Nope. Okay. If you want to look, you can. Oh, no, if she's not here, she's not here. She's not in any trouble, they're just worried about her. Uh, do you know maybe where she's at? Last I heard, she was going to Colorado. Going to Colorado? Yeah. Oh. Do you know what's over there? No. Oh, she never told you? Yeah. How long? That's what she told me last. How long ago was that? Uh... Almost a month ago, when she was here last. Alright, well, if she comes back, or if she comes and visits you, I'd appreciate

• 22:39Speaker 03

  if you'd call us, so we can, uh, tell, you know, tell her family that she's okay. So, alright, well, I guess I'll get out of here.

• 22:50Mike Boudet?

  You mean to tell me that, in the whole time Cassidy was staying there under his roof, he didn't even have her phone number? Come on. Just a few weeks later, on September 16th, 2021, an anonymous email lands in the FBI's tip line inbox. Attached are pictures, all labeled with the same name: Cassidy.

• 23:16Mike Boudet?

  The first picture stops the FBI agent cold. It's a woman in a cage. Blonde hair. Bare from the waist up. Crouched in a cage with her knees pulled tightly against her chest. She has a vacant stare. In between the steel bars, he sees the room behind. This is a large animal cage, but it's inside a room. It's inside someone's house. He clicks to the next frame and the scenery is outside. Old, weathered sheds, piles of scrap and a tall metal frame.

• 23:59Mike Boudet?

  To most people, it's nothing, but he's seen enough hunting setups to know what this is. A deer gantry. The details fall into place in his head. The wood grain on the walls, the layout of the yard and all of its clutter. Whoever sent him this email wasn't trying to hide anything. They wanted him to know exactly where this was. And as he stares at the screen, one thought is very clear. Whatever's happening out there on Moon Valley Road. It's probably already too late to stop it. On the same day, Dallas County detectives get a warrant and show up in broad daylight.

• 24:44Mike Boudet?

  They want to compare the scenery to the photos. This time, the officer stops the car halfway up the gravel lane when he sees Jim's dog on a long leash. And then spots Jim walking slowly across the yard. Now he's fully clothed, but still as nonchalant as last time. Nope. Haven't seen her.

• 25:09Speaker 03

  Hello.

• 25:11Speaker 03

  How you doing? Yeah.

• 25:15Speaker 03

  Uh, well, I was just following up with you on Cassidy.

• 25:20Speaker 03

  It's been, what's it been, a couple of weeks since we've been here? And, uh... We haven't heard a peep out of her, you know, so... Just gonna see if maybe you would heard anything out of her, or... Nope. Anything extra you could send us to do follow-ups on or something. We're coming up pretty empty. No, I haven't heard anything.

• 25:48Speaker 03

  Uh, well, he doesn't like us, does he? Actually, he wants you to play with him. Oh, yeah? Yeah, the last time I was here, I was walking by him and he grabbed a hold of me. I didn't know if he was trying to play, or... He wants to play. Or what, so...

• 26:02Mike Boudet?

  The dog looks well cared for. So does Jim, actually. But as unbothered as he seems, his posture says a lot. While his voice is easy, his words are compliant. He almost immediately folds his arms tightly across his chest. They call that a defensive posture.

• 26:22Speaker 03

  Um, Jim, the last time I was here, uh, let me get a piece of paper. I, uh, gotta do a big report on it and stuff, and I have Jim Phelps, but I don't have any other info. Just wondering if I can get that from you. Okay. Jim Phelps. Is it Jim, or James? It's Lee.

• 26:40Speaker 03

  James Phelps. Um, what's your date of birth? January 13, 63.

• 26:47Mike Boudet?

  If you pay close attention, Jim is getting increasingly anxious. Listen for his nervous laugh.

• 26:54Speaker 03

  Uh, I guess you know your social, dude.

• 26:58Speaker 03

  Thirteen years in the military. Yeah, I know.

• 27:04Speaker 03

  So, yeah. You, you remember those things after that long. Yeah.

• 27:09Mike Boudet?

  Yeah, after, after the first day or so.

• 27:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:12Mike Boudet?

  You remember it.

• 27:13Speaker 03

  You don't want to have to go back there, dig it out. What's that number again? We were going, even going through mechs, it was like, cause I didn't know mine. And I had it in my car. It was like, every time I turned around, I was digging it out. By the end of that day, I had it. By the end of the first day? Yup. Rattle it off without a problem. And you still can today. Yeah. Uh, there was a picture that I had come across of Cassidy. And I was wondering if it was done here. Would you mind if I looked at your backyard? My backyard? Yeah. There's a picture taken ever with a, a stump in the background. Do you have a, anything like that in the backyard? I don't have a stump, no. No stump? You might have to take a look real quick. Yeah, back there is my hoist.

• 27:57Mike Boudet?

  Jim tries to brush it off, saying the only thing back there is his hoist. But, once they step into the yard, it's like walking right into the pictures themselves. 3D now. Not just images on a page. The hoist, the clutter, the leaning sheds, every detail of the image lines up.

• 28:20Speaker 03

  Get up against that truck right now and get your hands on that truck. Do not fuck with me. Get up there on that truck.

• 28:28Speaker 03

  On the truck. Hands behind your back.

• 28:32Speaker 03

  What's going on?

• 28:35Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 28:40Speaker 03

  What's going on? Mr. Phelps. You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law.

• 28:47Mike Boudet?

  You know how the rest of that goes. In fact, you probably have it memorized.

• 28:52Speaker 03

  You understand your rights? Yeah. Okay. And what's going on? Right now, you're under arrest for the homicide of Cassidy Rainwater. What's going on with my dog? Uh, we'll talk about that in just a little bit.

• 29:05Mike Boudet?

  To understand who Jim Phelps was, you have to hear from John Warren. He's the man who actually owned the cabin on Moon Valley Road. He wasn't just a landlord, he was family. He was Jim Phelps' brother-in-law and rented property to Jim for a mere $200 a month, plus utilities. Keep in mind, the place was no mansion. This guy also knew Cassidy because her grandfather, Bill Rainwater, used to be his neighbor.

• 29:37Speaker 03

  That's when you met Cassidy when she was a kid? She was just a kid. Came up a film one day. Kind of find out about two years later. Her mother disappeared. Found out about twenty years later. Who had done it and when, how it happened. What was that about?

• 30:04Speaker 03

  Her boyfriend beat her to death. And put her in a box and took her out and buried. Every inch shallow grave along the pencil.

• 30:18Speaker 03

  Found that out twenty years later. Where was that? Over in Cleveland County.

• 30:26Speaker 03

  Who was your boyfriend? I said, I don't know.

• 30:31Speaker 03

  Bill told me about it.

• 30:34Mike Boudet?

  In other words, John Warren wasn't just Jim Phelps landlord and brother-in-law. He was linked to all of them. He tied Jim to the property and he tied Cassidy to a family history already marked by violence. Her mother's murder, hidden for twenty years, had only come to light a few years before Cassidy herself would disappear. John said Cassidy was going through a hard time. Finding out her mother was murdered was probably part of that. And so he and his wife were trying to help her.

• 31:10Speaker 03

  Cassidy just took advantage and

• 31:18Speaker 03

  I'm sorry.

• 31:21Speaker 03

  She took a bunch of jewelry that Robin had and I told her you need to make things right with Robin. Need to make things right. Well, I lost Robin on the first day of October.

• 31:37Speaker 03

  Two or three weeks later. She needed a vehicle to get back and forth for her. Cassidy did? Yeah. And that's what worries us. You really screwed up because now you can't drive with Robin.

• 31:53Speaker 03

  I was in the next world. Can't make a drive with her.

• 31:59Mike Boudet?

  It seemed like John Warren was kind of a grandfather to Cassidy. He tried to help her, but she stole from his wife, and he continued trying to help. A recovering addict, he told Jim Phelps that to use his property, there was a zero tolerance policy for drugs. He told Cassidy the same thing before he allowed her to stay on the property with Jim. By the time Cassidy was staying there, Amanda had already been in and out of the cabin. Their time overlapped, and Amanda remembered Cassidy as quiet and uneasy, not comfortable with strangers coming around. Apparently, John, the property owner, felt the same way.

• 32:43Mike Boudet?

  Yet another friend of Tim's was making herself at home without getting permission.

• 32:48Speaker 05

  And this little girl has not got anything on from her waist up. And I said, "You might want to put something on, and who the fuck are you?" And she told me, "Well, I'm Tim's friend." I said, "Well, Tim's friend, you need to get your ass down here and get your stuff back because you're leaving." Because that's not part of the deal. Where's Tim? He's up in Cannon Tinner someplace. He's working there all week, and she's staying there. That's on my...

• 33:30Speaker 05

  But to find out, the reason that they called me was because Jill was in the hospital.

• 33:39Speaker 05

  And this person was in the cabin. I come asked her getting her out of there, and as soon as she walked out the door, I put the lock on the door because Tim's in my hospital. Jill has the other key.

• 33:54Speaker 03

  So Jim's at the hospital, and you kicked Tim's friend out?

• 33:58Speaker 05

  Yeah, I did kick Tim's friend out, and the most amazing thing, Tim was able to come down and pick her up. And he wasn't supposed to be there.

• 34:09Mike Boudet?

  Two or three days. I think it was over.

• 34:14Mike Boudet?

  And imagine that if he actually was there and showed up a couple hours later. None of this was sitting well with John. He made it clear he doesn't like Tim hanging around the property. Tim always seemed to be lurking around the corner, quick to show up, always in Jim's shadow. John said he never wanted him out there in the first place. Meanwhile, on September 16th, Jim was already in custody. Deputies sit him down and ask about Cassidy. He doesn't give them much. He sticks to his story. She talked about going to Colorado. She left in the middle of the night, someone picked her up and he hadn't seen her since.

• 34:58Mike Boudet?

  When they press, he deflects, even whining about his dog. And then, he shuts up completely. He wants a lawyer, he says. Investigators still have an angle, though. His friend, Tim Norton. It seems pretty clear he's a big player in whatever happened to Cassidy. And if he isn't an active participant, he at least knows stuff. A lot of stuff. Detectives bring him into another room. Compared to Jim, he is easier prey. Where Jim had clammed up, Tim talked so much that he couldn't hold his story straight for more than five minutes.

• 35:42Mike Boudet?

  At first, he flat out denies knowing anything about Cassidy's disappearance. He says he didn't see her, doesn't know what happened, and doesn't have a clue. But when asked about her relationship with Jim, he's got a lot to say.

• 35:58Speaker 03

  Were they in a sexual relationship?

• 35:59Speaker 05

  Not that I know of. I know he talked about that she said she was going to do certain things, whether she would spend the night and, you know, sleep with him and stuff. But for her, I know nothing ever happened because he always, he was always aggravated after she left. Because she didn't.

• 36:17Speaker 05

  Didn't do what she said she was gonna do.

• 36:19Speaker 03

  Okay, so it's your understanding that Jim thought that the two of them may at some point have a romantic or sexual relationship? Okay, but you don't think it ever happened based on what Jim told you?

• 36:32Speaker 05

  No, I don't think so.

• 36:32Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 36:33Mike Boudet?

  Both Jim and Tim were annoyed with Cassidy for different reasons. But the property owner kept sticking up for her.

• 36:42Speaker 05

  I didn't like her.

• 36:43Speaker 03

  Okay, what about Jim?

• 36:45Speaker 05

  He tolerated her because of John.

• 36:49Speaker 03

  He tolerated her because of John?

• 36:51Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 36:51Speaker 03

  And John, again, being the person who owns the property?

• 36:54Speaker 05

  See, Jim tried to keep her out of the property after a while, after she'd stolen the rings.

• 36:59Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 37:00Speaker 05

  But she would go to John and get John to look okay or to come out there and stay in the cabin. Jim's hands were tied.

• 37:07Mike Boudet?

  They believed John when he said she had stolen jewelry from his wife. But John was willing to forgive her. But later, a collection of Tim's knives went missing from the cabin and Tim blamed Cassidy. Tim and Jim's plan escalated quickly. What started as talk of confronting her turned into restraining her and ended with killing her. By that point Cassidy had already spent time locked inside a dog cage.

• 37:38Speaker 03

  How did that progress?

• 37:39Speaker 05

  That one, I do believe, progressed with him saying he wanted her dead.

• 37:44Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 37:45Speaker 05

  I was about to tell you that she was accusing me and/or Mr. Phelps of kidnapping her or killing her or, I'm not sure exactly what she was...

• 37:56Mike Boudet?

  Cassidy accused them outright of kidnapping her and planning to kill her. And that, according to Tim, pissed Jim off even more.

• 38:05Speaker 03

  And so during that planning process between you and Mr. Phelps, was anyone else ever a part of that?

• 38:13Speaker 05

  Yes, there was. One person, one time, maybe two times.

• 38:17Mike Boudet?

  Um, no, I was there. Her name was Amanda. Golly. Don't let Amanda's small baby voice fool you into thinking she was innocent. She insisted she wasn't his girlfriend. He was too old for her. She had her age limits, no sex, nothing to see here. But she was much more involved than she said.

• 38:41Speaker 03

  She, uh, either working with Phelps, Jim or Tim, neither of them ever talked about killing.

• 38:50Speaker 07

  Um, they talked about, you know, like hunting and stuff like that, like deer and stuff, fish, um, fishing and stuff like that, but never killing anyone.

• 39:01Speaker 03

  How about you taking anyone against the law?

• 39:06Speaker 07

  They made jokes.

• 39:08Speaker 03

  Like what type of jokes?

• 39:09Speaker 07

  They're like, oh, she's pretty. I'll take her home. That kind of stuff. But, you know, I never thought anything of it. Because like I said, when I met these two men, they were sweet men. They were really nice. They were caring.

• 39:21Mike Boudet?

  But their jokes may not have been jokes at all. I mean, who jokes about that? Detectives were already on to the fact that they weren't joking. They had text messages and Facebook dialogue between the two of them. If there was any doubt about how dark Jim and Tim's conversations got, the messages they sent each other erased it. Jim told Tim, flat out, "You need to bring me a woman. I don't care where you get her." Tim didn't push back. He asked, "Where do you want me to get her?" Jim's answer was as casual as it was chilling.

• 40:03Mike Boudet?

  Parking lots are good. Big lots is a good place to people watch. I can watch women all day.

• 40:11Mike Boudet?

  And it didn't stop there. Jim bragged, "I've been watching the girls in town. One day, I'm gonna have one tied up out here." Then came the line that made investigators' stomachs turn. "I want fresh meat. You know what I mean." We here at Soren Scale did a little digging and found someone who almost got caught up in Tim Norton's web. This is Ren. So my name is Lauren. Um, I, at the time, was

• 40:44Speaker 05

  In college in twenty twenty one, I believe. I can't remember what month he got arrested, but I do remember that it was about two weeks after I had met him, uh, after I had met Timothy. I was working at a Buffalo Wild Wings in like middle of nowhere college town, South Georgia. But whenever I was there, I had the patio section in the morning, which was typically, nobody was really out there. And so I was just trying to make conversation, see if I could get a tip. And he didn't really want anything from me, but he wanted to talk

• 41:27Speaker 05

  more than I think most people want to talk to their waitress. And when he had come through, he had said something about being a truck driver from Missouri.

• 41:38Mike Boudet?

  Ren described Tim as looking much older than his fifties and having what she described as a strangely flat face. The conversation started somewhat normally.

• 41:49Speaker 05

  He started off asking if I like my job. And I said, not really, but it pays the bills. He had told me I should get a rich boyfriend, so I don't have to work this job anymore. And he wouldn't let, you know, a woman work like that. And that's when it started getting kind of weird, but it got creepy when he started asking me if we had any cameras in the parking lots and what time I got off work.

• 42:16Mike Boudet?

  The text messages alone suggested that Tim and Jim were a team, just as they'd always been. There's not a lot of information out there about who they were, but they described each other as brothers. Within the team, it seemed Tim was the scout, or maybe more like a predatory lion, hunting during the day and bringing the kill back to share.

• 42:42Speaker 05

  He had ended up telling me that he was a truck driver from Missouri and he knew I seventy five like. The back of his hand and like when I say that it sounded like a threat. Sometimes people don't understand what I mean, but the way that he looked at me and the tone that he said it was like, I know where I'm going. I don't need to leave a trail to tell you I was there. It was it was weird. And the way that he looked at me and also at a lot of the other um girls that were working there just seemed very predatory.

• 43:22Mike Boudet?

  We haven't even scratched the surface here. Back at the investigation detectives had a broad idea of what actually went on the day that Tim and Jim decided to make Cassidy go away. Still, they had no idea how many details Tim would give them. And it all corroborated what Amanda was finally revealing. However, Minima, she presented herself.

• 43:46Speaker 03

  You're gonna tell you this.

• 43:50Speaker 07

  He didn't tell me he killed her, no.

• 43:53Speaker 07

  But I know that there were jokes made.

• 43:57Speaker 03

  Okay, tell me about these jokes.

• 43:59Speaker 07

  That jokes that were made was um that if they were to kill someone, they would cut them up into little pieces and put them in the woods.

• 44:09Mike Boudet?

  Good joke, right?

• 44:10Speaker 07

  He never told me he killed her. I swear, he never told me.

• 44:16Speaker 03

  If he told you, then that's not on you. That's that's just.

• 44:19Speaker 07

  As far as I can remember, he never told me.

• 44:21Speaker 03

  As far as you can remember.

• 44:23Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 44:24Speaker 03

  Because if he told you, then it's okay. You need to just.

• 44:27Speaker 07

  Hold on, I'm trying to remember that conversation. If we had that conversation involving.

• 44:33Mike Boudet?

  I don't know about you, but if someone told me they wanted to get rid of somebody and then joked about how if they did it, they'd cut them into little pieces. I kind of remember that. But oh, wait, just kidding. She did remember.

• 44:50Speaker 07

  Oh, my God, I did.

• 44:52Speaker 03

  Tell me about it.

• 44:54Speaker 07

  She was talking about how she had stolen something from him. And that he had, um,

• 45:04Speaker 07

  he had helped restrain her and that him and Jim,

• 45:10Speaker 07

  like, apparently Jim looked at her and Cassie looked at him and said, "Why?" He said, "Because you said that I've done it before." I didn't think anything of that.

• 45:26Speaker 07

  I thought he was joking. I seriously did.

• 45:35Speaker 07

  Me thinking it was a joke, yes.

• 45:38Speaker 03

  And how did he tell you?

• 45:40Speaker 07

  Uh, she's dead.

• 45:44Mike Boudet?

  I guess. It was all too easy for Amanda to play dumb when the story lined up exactly with what Tim admitted to telling her. Unlike Amanda, Tim didn't have the luxury of hiding behind just joking. When detectives pushed, the thin-walled denial cracked. First a slip, then a fragment, and then a flood. What he finally confessed, piece by piece, is the kind of thing you can't un-hear.

• 46:15Speaker 03

  Okay, so it's eight o'clock in the morning in late July.

• 46:20Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 46:21Speaker 03

  So the sun is up.

• 46:22Speaker 07

  Sun's up.

• 46:23Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 46:23Speaker 07

  My legs are up in there for that. My son, so.

• 46:26Speaker 03

  Okay, so you could see?

• 46:28Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 46:28Speaker 03

  You think you could see clearly, okay? And the person whose legs that you grabbed, it was Cassidy drinking water? Okay. All right, so you were holding her legs. You already described how you knelt down and were holding her knees, I think is what you said.

• 46:43Speaker 07

  Yeah, right under her knee area.

• 46:46Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 46:46Speaker 07

  So he immobilized the whole of her leg. I mean, I've gotten enough training and stuff and I know how to do that.

• 46:53Speaker 03

  Sure. And then what did Jim do?

• 46:57Speaker 07

  Well, there again, like I said, I had my head down. But I really didn't see what he originally started doing. I did look up and he was trying to get the bag over her head. Not, not this way, just this way.

• 47:15Speaker 03

  The least thing she was yelling was she was talking a little louder than normal. Okay. Asking why, why, why?

• 47:25Speaker 03

  And that's when I looked at him to see what he was gonna say. Mm-hmm.

• 47:31Speaker 03

  And I seen his eyes, and at that point, like I told you, at that point, I wasn't sure about my life. Mm-hmm.

• 47:39Mike Boudet?

  At first, Tim said he just held her legs. Well, Jim used a bag and then his hands. But as the questions kept coming, the details got darker. He finally admitted he joined in, his own hands tightening around her throat until she stopped struggling. All in all, it took thirty minutes to strangle the life out of her. Afterwards, they left her body lying there before dragging it outside toward the gantry. This was the same gantry that would later show up in those photographs. The gantry stood in the Ozark Woods, where it held captive numerous corpses of deer, cattle, pork,

• 48:23Mike Boudet?

  and who knows what else, as the blood drained from them. Only this time, that would be a human. It would be a mother. At least, this is the only time the detectives knew about. That night, the two men worked methodically: knives, buckets, plastic wrap. Tim told the officers how they cut her legs apart, piece by piece. He described it flatly, as if they were reading instructions off a page. Tim acted like he had no vested interest in doing this. But, he was lying. He thought she was a liar and a thief.

• 49:07Mike Boudet?

  And in his words, he didn't deal with people like that.

• 49:10Speaker 03

  And then he walked over to the crank.

• 49:13Speaker 07

  He cracked it out of the rope, but crank.

• 49:15Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 49:15Speaker 07

  And he cranked it up, raising her up like a side beam.

• 49:19Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 49:21Speaker 07

  You know, he referring her like that, but there's no better way to put it. Took her head off first, told him, have a wash basin. I don't know how countryfied you are, but big tub, not yea big around, not yea deep. So then I put it under her, which would be nothing unusual, because it was processing a deer or whatever. He took off her head, put it in there, and then he started cutting her down the center.

• 49:49Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 49:50Speaker 07

  So all the blood and the guts and everything went down there.

• 49:53Mike Boudet?

  Piece by piece, Cassidy's body was carved apart, dropped into buckets like waste at a slaughterhouse.

• 50:01Speaker 03

  And so he handed you the camera and asked you to take a picture?

• 50:05Speaker 07

  Yep.

• 50:06Speaker 03

  And what did you take a picture of?

• 50:07Speaker 07

  Him standing next to her.

• 50:09Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 50:10Speaker 07

  For some reason, it's not coming out clear. I think he reached out and grabbed her head and pulled it up.

• 50:15Speaker 03

  Like posing with the body?

• 50:17Speaker 07

  Yeah, I mean, he was standing up almost straight.

• 50:21Mike Boudet?

  Jim even had Tim take a picture. He was posing with Cassidy's head like a trophy buck. Tim claims he was emotionless and just following Jim's orders. Hand me this, take away that, like a butcher's assistant.

• 50:38Speaker 07

  He go, he start cutting one off and then after he split her down the middle, not just gutting her, but the splitting.

• 50:45Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 50:46Speaker 07

  And he went to the corner parts, there again, knowing what we did with regular carcasses, he just began natural to do it.

• 50:56Mike Boudet?

  We know you love true crime, but if you ever find yourself saying it feels natural to cut a human into pieces, I'm sorry, but there's no help for you. You're fucked. Jim wasn't finished. What he did next crossed the line from killing to desecration. The kind of act that makes investigators question whether this was about murder at all, or something far more primal.

• 51:23Speaker 07

  He cut off her boobs.

• 51:25Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 51:26Speaker 07

  Hands were genitalia.

• 51:27Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 51:28Speaker 07

  The genitalia, he put in the bowl.

• 51:31Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 51:32Speaker 07

  The boobs, he threw in the bucket.

• 51:34Speaker 03

  When you say the bucket, you're talking about the bucket?

• 51:37Speaker 07

  The washpan.

• 51:39Speaker 03

  The washpan.

• 51:40Speaker 07

  That we had all the guts and everything in it.

• 51:43Mike Boudet?

  Jim was all about trophies, apparently. They got rid of her like she was nothing more than a carcass. According to Tim, Jim had him dig a hole and bury her head. The visceral remains, the guts, were carried off in buckets and dumped in the woods. Let the animals do their jobs, in Tim's words. The rest was butchered, quartered, and handled piece by piece. When investigators later served a warrant, they opened a freezer on the property. Inside, they found packages of meat.

• 52:22Mike Boudet?

  Some were labeled deer, some coon, and every other form of wildlife you could imagine. But they also found neatly wrapped packs labeled simply "7/24", the day they murdered and processed Cassidy. This raised a question darker than anything investigators were prepared for. Was this murder for murder's sake? Or had Cassidy Rainwater been killed, butchered, and prepared for something else? And then, the biggest mystery of all. Why would anyone, whether it was Tim, Jim, or another accomplice,

• 53:06Mike Boudet?

  send those pictures straight to the FBI? It could only have been for some kind of sick bragging or proof that more people were involved. And there may have been more victims.

• 53:20Speaker 06

  Now, there are more questions than answers in the disappearance of a 33-year-old Missouri woman. Cassidy Rainwater hasn't been seen or heard from since at least July 25th. With Rainwater still missing, two men

• 53:33Speaker 07

  Timothy Norton and James Phelps are in custody and charged with kidnapping in connection to the case. They're accused of locking her up in a cage inside this small cabin near Lebanon, Missouri. Adding to the mystery, just hours before, both men were scheduled to make their first appearance in court, that same cabin burned to the ground. The Dallas County Sheriff's Office has been tight lipped about the case. In a lengthy post online, the sheriff condemned rumors about the case, adding, quote, "No, you are not entitled to a play-by-play of an ongoing investigation. If you want to be in the know, we are hiring along with every other law enforcement agency in the country."

• 54:12Mike Boudet?

  The property was burned to the ground just days before their first court appearance. To this day, by the way, no one has been charged. Officially, investigators said it was a propane tank explosion. But for a community already buzzing with rumors of cages, body parts, and cannibalism, it only deepened the paranoia. The sheriff's department was frustrated and issued a harsh statement to the public. But here's the problem: The stories weren't all wrong. The cage was real. The pictures were real. The meat in the freezer was real.

• 54:57Mike Boudet?

  It wasn't hard to put two and two together. If Cassidy was packaged like venison, where exactly was this meat going to end up? Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability.

• 55:35Mike Boudet?

  And it all starts with a great deal on a truck from your local Toyota dealer. Make a smart buy on the off-road-ready Tacoma or half-ton Tundra, two of Toyota's most capable and long-lasting trucks, built with the strength for the tough jobs, the tech to power your next big adventures, and the rugged style for everything in between. Or discover Toyota's off-road lineup, including the iconic 4Runner and Land Cruiser, designed to go beyond the everyday. And with Toyota's proven reputation for quality and reliability, plus available hybrid power on many models, you can get more for every mile and drive for less along the way.

• 56:18Mike Boudet?

  And long after you leave a lot, your Toyota keeps delivering with great resale value. So you can trade in for more when you're ready for your next Toyota. From a great deal today to a great value tomorrow, a Toyota is right for you. Shoptoyota.com for deals and details, or stop by your local Toyota dealer today. Toyota, let's go places.

• 56:42Speaker 05

  Hi, I'm Jenna Ashkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 56:57Speaker 01

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 57:08Speaker 05

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone. One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies. So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat, it's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

• 57:39Speaker 01

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down rather than giving teens the answer. Study mode helps teens work through problems, and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default, and parental controls offer families additional options, like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.comPARENTS to learn more.

• 58:24Mike Boudet?

  The Ozarks are creepy, put it that way. You've seen the TV show, I hope. It's a great show, by the way. And the characters in it are pretty spot-on. Those hill people are weird, man. There's no other way to put it. By late summer of 2021, Dallas County, Missouri was giving the best example of what is dark and creepy about the Ozarks. A lonely cabin on Moon Valley Road surrounded by thick Ozark woods seemed like just another rundown property, hidden from view like so many others in the backcountry. Jim Phelps lived there,

• 59:05Mike Boudet?

  a reclusive man with interests in BDSM. His closest friend was Tim Norton, a truck driver who hovered around Jim's orbit. More follower than leader. At least, that's how he described their relationship. Both men had reputations for keeping to themselves, but also for letting strangers, especially young women, drift into their lives. Cassidy Rainwater was one of them. She was a 33-year-old mother trying to put her life back together after years of setbacks. By August, she was staying at the cabin because the property owner told her she could. Within weeks, she had disappeared.

• 59:50Mike Boudet?

  What happened next was no mystery of the woods. Jim and Tim got tired of her existence and strangled her to death. They quartered her body on a gantry like game and left investigators with photographs that looked more like hunting trophies than evidence of a crime. They say she stayed willingly, that she climbed into a dog cage willingly and stole from them freely. But these allegations weren't true. She had no idea what she was getting herself into, and before she knew it, she was a captive. If this could happen to her, who else could it or did it happen to?

• 1:00:34Mike Boudet?

  Text messages between Tim and Jim suggested they were constantly on the prowl, looking for women. Worse yet, probably underage girls. They even suggested that Tim may have been bringing women or girls back after being on the road as a trucker. The messages were always cryptic and coded. Ren, the young woman you heard from before, remembers her firsthand experience.

• 1:00:59Speaker 05

  One of the first things that I thought after he left was, there's no way that man doesn't have like people in his basement. He's weird.

• 1:01:07Mike Boudet?

  What Ren didn't know was that Tim Norton was worse than weird. He was, in fact, a predator of young women.

• 1:01:16Speaker 05

  I thought that he was like, a little too old to be doing all this, and especially too old to be hitting on women who were, I think, God, I was probably 22 at the time? Like, he was, the conversation that I had with him, I have never had anybody speak to me that way, so I remembered him. Um, but when that mugshot came up, I remember being in my college apartment, and it had come across like CNN or some like big, it was a mainstream thing. And I saw it and immediately I texted my friend, um, that I worked with, and I said,

• 1:02:00Speaker 05

  "Do you remember that creepy guy that I..." I was telling you about, like, I swear to God, this is him. And then I read, um, kind of more about who he was and what he did. And when I saw trucker from Missouri, I was like, oh, my God, that's, that's him.

• 1:02:15Mike Boudet?

  Fortunately, Wren had enough life experience and confidence to keep Tim at a distance. And she immediately reported what had happened.

• 1:02:25Speaker 05

  I had talked to my general manager and I said, this guy is weird and he's asking me all these weird questions. I need you to, like, let the other girls know that they need to have somebody walk them to their cars tonight. I don't know how long he's gonna be here, but he doesn't seem like he has a lot going on. And he kind of blew me off. And then, you know, one or two-ish weeks later, I came back in, uh, with the mugshot pulled up. And I said, you know, this is the guy that I was telling you about. Like, I'm serious, we need more cameras.

• 1:02:58Mike Boudet?

  Right before Tim left the restaurant, after staying way too long without ordering food, Wren remembered the feeling she got from him.

• 1:03:06Speaker 05

  I noticed that he looked sort of, um, satisfied that I was uncomfortable. Like, he really enjoyed that what he was saying was kind of making me squirm. Like, I really, obviously, didn't want to speak to him. And he knew that, and I think that that was kind of part of the game for him.

• 1:03:30Mike Boudet?

  Wren's experience offered a glimpse of how Tim would operate in public. Unsettling, inappropriate, and just weird. But in his own words, he gave investigators an even darker view of what was happening back at the cabin where he and Jim hung out. During his interview, Tim admitted that both he and Jim were into BDSM. But Jim took it even further. He interacted online with all kinds of women, including minors, in his sick fantasy world. According to Tim, Jim was more to blame. He maintained he had only stumbled across the content on Jim's hard drive.

• 1:04:13Mike Boudet?

  He described it almost casually, like it was just another hobby.

• 1:04:17Speaker 03

  He ever talk to you about those chavrons?

• 1:04:19Speaker 07

  Yeah, he even mentioned what they were about and stuff.

• 1:04:21Speaker 03

  Like, what, what kind of chavrons?

• 1:04:23Speaker 07

  Some of them were, uh, more of the darker BDSM.

• 1:04:28Speaker 07

  That type of lifestyle, some of my lifestyle, so I mean, I know a little bit about it, mostly more than you, you know, as far as what it is. It's a little odd, isn't it? What, did he get into it? I suppose, maybe, but maybe you continue to stay with it. What, like, did he think in particular? I don't know if he got into it or not, I mean, he talked, he really had interest with it. You know. Like, what was some of the weirdest stuff that he would talk about in there? I don't know, I couldn't tell you what he talked about in the chat rooms. Oh, but he told you about? Some, some things he would, I mean, he mentioned, you know, this person from Sweden, or this person from this country, or some other country, he was talking to about it. That was about it.

• 1:05:13Mike Boudet?

  But that wasn't all of it. Tim downplayed everything, what they thought about, what they talked about, and what they actually did. But investigators compared his story against the phone records and Facebook messages, and the reality looked far worse than what Tim admitted. Jim's collection of bondage pictures and messages, all contained in labeled folders, included women hanging on crosses, and women in cages. There was even a folder named "Milking." This contained sick images of women tied up, with their breasts connected to cow milking devices.

• 1:05:57Mike Boudet?

  There were other folders labeled "Kids in Cages" and "Nude Babies." No description needed.

• 1:06:05Speaker 07

  He didn't ever mention that she might be into it, but that, you know, he'd be willing to try it with her. I mean, I know he had some BDSM stuff. Like what? Uh, he got a harness, he had some handcuffs, uh, ankle shackles. Um, he had a toolbox full of stuff like that. Okay. You know, adult, adult enjoyables. That's what I could put it. Wow. I don't know, there was a tail in there, and some whips, and other things.

• 1:06:35Mike Boudet?

  To each his own, right? Live and let live, right? All that shit. But there's a big difference between consensual roleplay and being a predator. An older man waiting for vulnerable women to be delivered to him. Or to stumble into his trap like a fly in the grips of a Venus flytrap. Like Cassidy did, for example. And it's an entirely different matter for someone to end up the way Cassidy did. In a freezer. You've heard the phrase, "Where there's smoke, there's fire."

• 1:07:16Mike Boudet?

  Well, where there's a freezer full of human meat, fill in the blank. Jim had even written a macabre story on the topic. Not only that, it's clear he did some intense research on the subject of cannibalism.

• 1:07:32Speaker 07

  It's like, "No, I do not want to know why he's doing this."

• 1:07:37Mike Boudet?

  Okay.

• 1:07:38Speaker 07

  Because that made me rethink of the story I'd read when I was kind of stupid and was hard drive looking for movies and stuff. And I seen it and was like, "What's this?" So I don't tend to read it. It's like, "No, I don't want to know if that's what he's planning on doing, because I don't know."

• 1:07:56Mike Boudet?

  Okay.

• 1:07:57Speaker 07

  You know, if you remember correctly, when you said something about cannibalism when you first interviewed me, I said, "Take my blood, shoot. Tell me if I have." Because I myself didn't know I had, if I had.

• 1:08:12Mike Boudet?

  Hard to hear, but that was Tim telling the detectives that they might want to analyze his blood for human DNA. Like someone else's, if that's possible. Because if he had partaken in Jim's sick cannibal fantasy, he didn't know about it. Yeah, sure, he's been to a few barbecues at Jim's since the murder, but who was to say?

• 1:08:36Speaker 03

  Do you know if his intention was to consume, to eat, some of that flesh?

• 1:08:40Speaker 07

  At the time, honestly, no. But since then, maybe.

• 1:08:49Speaker 03

  Okay, why maybe?

• 1:08:50Speaker 07

  Because he cut the genitalia out and he kept it.

• 1:08:53Speaker 03

  And... Do you know what he did with the genitalia?

• 1:08:58Speaker 07

  No, I did not.

• 1:08:59Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:09:00Speaker 07

  As far as I know...

• 1:09:04Speaker 07

  Things thrown away? I don't know.

• 1:09:07Speaker 03

  Have you told someone else something different?

• 1:09:09Speaker 07

  No. I've had several people, and it's a running joke in the pods, that I was a cannibal and that he used it to make a sandwich with and several things like that. Like I said, it's a running joke. You know, and I've done my best to inform everybody. I didn't eat it and I have no idea what you're talking about. Yet they still make a joke out of it. And sometimes I make jokes, you know, with other people, you know, just fine along with the cannibal situation, but I didn't eat any of it. I didn't touch it. I don't know what he did with it. You know, I know what I've heard. I know what I've seen on the news.

• 1:09:54Speaker 07

  Beyond that, I don't know anything else.

• 1:09:57Mike Boudet?

  Here's a good example of the way Tim would minimize. He pretended that he only went along with the jokes about cannibalism in jail because he didn't want any trouble. But he later admitted to signing autographs for money under the name Hannibal the Cannibal. While Jim stayed silent through the days following Cassidy's murder, all of Tim's minimizing and Amanda's beliefs that it was all a joke couldn't change the overwhelming evidence that both Jim and Tim had viciously murdered Cassidy. And Amanda knew about it. Eventually, the courtroom knew about it, too.

• 1:10:37Speaker 04

  Appearing in person for the first time since being charged in mid-September, James Phelps was escorted into a Dallas County courtroom and asked if his defense was aware of the new first-degree murder charge filed against him. The judge quickly took up his attorney's motion to set a bond, with Phelps' public defender arguing Phelps is not a flight risk, having spent most of his life in the area.

• 1:10:58Speaker 07

  Mr. Phelps does have significant ties to the community. He is a lifelong resident of the area, with the exception of a brief stint in the military, and he did live...

• 1:11:09Speaker 04

  In St. Louis for about three years. Attorney Sam Gerhardt says Phelps had only faced charges of writing bad checks and illegal hunting in the past, but prosecutors argue Phelps poses a danger to the community, especially those that are caring for Cassidy Rainwater's children.

• 1:11:25Speaker 07

  The state's position is he probably needs to be held accountable for the community's safety.

• 1:11:31Speaker 04

  Prosecuting attorney Jonathan Barker tells the court Phelps co-defendant Timothy Norton confessed to deputies he and Phelps would search for potential victims online and at a local Walmart.

• 1:11:42Speaker 07

  There's evidence in this case that this particular defendant online is talking with potential victims that he's attempting to persuade to appear at his location or to make themselves available to be put up by himself or co-defendants to be brought back to his location where he discusses with them that he will in fact harm them or kill them.

• 1:12:07Speaker 04

  And prosecutors also said tonight they are weighing all options in Phelps' case, including possibly seeking the death penalty.

• 1:12:15Mike Boudet?

  By 2023, the courts had delivered their verdict. In April, Jim Phelps entered an Alfred plea to first-degree murder, meaning he knew that prosecutors had enough evidence to convict him, but he still maintained his innocence. The judge sentenced him to life in prison with the possibility of parole. In June, Timothy Norton pleaded guilty to the same charge and received an identical sentence: life without parole. As part of his plea agreement, charges of kidnapping and abandonment of a corpse were dropped. Cassidy's son Aiden has spoken about his mother, saying that even though his parents

• 1:13:00Mike Boudet?

  gave him up for adoption at the age of four, he loves her and knows she did her best. He admits that adoption was probably the best thing for him. He's had a good life. Aiden has grown up to be a very intelligent and talented young man who plays 35 different instruments and loves theater. This is what he said at his mom's funeral.

• 1:13:29Speaker 07

  She always loved the river. It was her favorite place and I remember her always singing to me as a baby.

• 1:13:41Speaker 07

  She was a great person. She was the hardest working mom I've ever known. And I'm so proud of her. And I wish she could know that today.

• 1:13:51Mike Boudet?

  Cassidy Rainwater died in the most horrible of circumstances. And what they did to her body after was beyond despicable. She may have fallen through the cracks at the time she landed on Jim's doorstep, but she was a mother, a daughter, and a friend. She just happened to be a woman who trusted the wrong people. But the question that lingers is bigger than Cassidy. Jim and Tim weren't just two isolated monsters who snapped one day. They were predators. And like all predators, they hunted where they knew the vulnerable lived.

• 1:14:32Mike Boudet?

  For them, it was mostly women on the margins, alone, struggling, sometimes with no place to go. But this was changing. They started stalking in parking lots and restaurants. That's where Ren's insight becomes so important. It could have been her. She crossed paths with Tim before he was caught and put away. And her story shows how monsters like Jim and Tim operated. Not just with violence, but with patience, with manipulation.

• 1:15:09Mike Boudet?

  They looked for weakness, tested boundaries, and moved in slowly until it was too late. Fortunately for Ren, she knew what to look for. She works as an EMT.

• 1:15:24Speaker 05

  I don't think I've ever ran into another murderer. But I have, you know, worked cases where people are being trafficked and like on the side of the road, we're getting people out of cars who are being taken against their will. And it's a lot of the same behavior. It's a lot of that like, I'm out to make you uncomfortable and I'm betting that you're not going to say anything about it. They look for people who kind of don't hold themselves high, who kind of, you shrink your shoulders, you make yourself small, you stay out of the way. And a lot of people think that like being out of sight in a way makes them a little safer

• 1:16:05Speaker 05

  and it just makes it easier for the people who don't want to do horrible things to you, to not notice you, to not see you when you need help. And like a lot of, I've read a lot of studies about serial killers and, you know, the way that they pick their victims is who's the smallest person in the room that doesn't look very sure of themselves.

• 1:16:32Mike Boudet?

  Cassidy may have been vulnerable, but she was strong willed and stubborn, according to everyone who knew her, that is. But see, Jim and Tim didn't seek her out. She landed there and she became a problem for them because she didn't want to give in to their demands. She didn't want a sexual relationship with Jim. Even Tim acknowledged that. And she paid for it with her life.

• 1:17:00Speaker 05

  Another thing that I wanted to touch on is like the packaged meat of it all. The cannibalism was the craziest part of it for me to read because it was one of those things, especially like, again, as the information is coming out, you see it and it's so out there and weird and wrong that you kind of don't want to believe it. But then again, like, and especially getting in the line of work that I'm in now, there are definitely people that, like, beyond your worst imagination, will do things like that or...

• 1:17:43Speaker 05

  Kind of surround themselves with people that are cool with stuff like that? I don't know. I don't know if society as a whole just wants to push all the ugly stuff under the rug and don't think about it. And that happens far away and, you know, it'll never be my problem. And a lot of this stuff is happening like in these tiny, middle-of-nowhere, unincorporated towns and like counties that have just woods forever. It's hiding kind of in plain sight.

• 1:18:17Mike Boudet?

  Dallas County Police didn't find evidence that the human meat in Jim's freezer was ever shared or sold. But, absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. Bon Appetit!

• 1:18:48Mike Boudet?

  That's gonna do it for another one. If you're new here, head on over to swordandscale.com for more. Until next week, stay safe.

• 1:19:21Speaker 05

  Mike, you are so funny. You crack me up, dude. Keep doing what you're doing. You're making so many people laugh. But we don't speak out, you know what I mean? So all you hear is the negative from the neggie, you know, neg- negatives. Negative. Take care, Mike, and thank you. Don't believe they hate us.

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