Bin Laden Sighted in 2005 in Pakistan with Jack Murphy & Sean Naylor

In this episode, Dee, Jack Murphy, and Sean Naylor delve into a significant story about a sighting of Osama Bin Laden that was captured on camera by a CIA contractor. They discuss the backstory of how the information was gathered, the analysis of the photographs, and the implications of the CIA's findings. The conversation also explores the complex relationship between the CIA and the ISI, the aftermath of Bin Laden's death, and the enigma surrounding his movements. The episode concludes with insights into future investigations and projects. Get The High Side here: https://thehighside.substack.com/ Grab Jack's book "We Defy: The Lost Chapters of Special Forces History" https://a.co/d/eRxKBle Grab Sean's book "Relentless Strike: The Secret History of Joint Special Operations Command" https://a.co/d/4fqAInC Support the show on Patreon here: https://www.patreon.com/c/TheTeamHouse 00:00 Introduction to the High Side Story 01:19 The Backstory of the CIA Sighting 03:46 The Photographic Evidence and Analysis 07:35 The Investigation into the Lookalike 12:35 The CIA's Response and Actions 16:43 The Controversial Relationship with ISI 20:07 The Aftermath of the Abbottabad Raid 24:58 Theories on Bin Laden's Movements 28:30 The CIA's Methods and Operations 29:29 The Reporting Legacy of Steve Cole 30:52 CIA and ISI Connections: Unraveling the Truth 32:28 Upcoming Investigations: Havana Syndrome and More 34:59 The Fallout of the Global War on Terror 40:32 Future Stories and Collaborations "Karl Casey @ White Bat Audio" Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

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• 0:57Speaker 02

  Hey guys, welcome to another episode of Eyes on Geopolitics, a special one with Jack Murphy, Sean Naylor. They have the High Side Substack, check it out, that link is in the description. They do stories that most news outlets don't do, or don't have the sourcing to do. Usually what happens is they'll do a story about something like zero units in Omega Teams, and then like, big, big publications will rip them off and do stories about it too, like, six months a year later. At least that's my observation. So if you want, yeah, if you want the news, like, really cool espionage, special operation stories, go to the High Side Substack, that link is in the description, it's well worth it.

• 1:37Speaker 02

  The story we're talking about today is pretty crazy, because I've been waiting for this to happen for like, years now, like, three, four years now, when Jack told me about this. It's about a sighting that the CIA initially thought was Osama bin Laden in the Shintril Valley, is that how you say it? Shintril. Shintril, in Pakistan.

• 2:00Speaker 02

  You know, some CIA contractor spotted this guy, took video of it. I mean, you guys know the story better than I do, and it's on the high side right now. So check out the high side. Jack, where do you want to start with this? Because this has been a story that's been in the making for like a decade.

• 2:16Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah, I'll kind of flesh out a little bit of like the backstory. Some people might be interested in how sort of this story came about. And I, you know, sometimes reporters have to sit on a story for a certain amount of time, and there's a few different reasons why you might have to do that. But long story short, the source in this case wasn't comfortable coming forward with it just yet. So I basically had to wait a little over a decade, I think, before we could really do the story. But for me, on my side, it started, like I said, probably over a decade ago at this point,

• 2:54Jack Murphy?

  where I was told that somebody would like to meet with me and, you know, but you got to go talk to him in person. It was all kind of like, what? So I got on a train to a undisclosed location. And I remember I was on the train all day, got off the train, I'm at the station and meet this guy. And yeah, I won't give any identifying details. I say, I met this, this gentleman. And we were going to go out to a diner and eat. And he's like, hey, before we go in there in front of all those people, I want to talk to you privately. And we sit in his car. So I'm sitting in the passenger seat of his car and he's telling me his whole story, which is what this article became.

• 3:39Jack Murphy?

  And he hands me a manila envelope, like a manila folder, and I fold it out. And inside is pictures he took of Osama bin Laden in 2005.

• 3:51Jack Murphy?

  And I'm like, holy shit, this is crazy. So he tells me the whole story. Um, we go and have lunch and I, I think I may have stayed the night there and then took the train back the next day. But he wasn't comfortable going forward with the story just yet. So I, you know, had to hold on. And wait until he was comfortable with it because it is his pictures, you know, and it's his story and uh, I wasn't gonna. Go forward and put him in an uncomfortable position, of course. Um, so just uh, in the last couple of months, you know, we started earnestly working on the story.

• 4:28Jack Murphy?

  Um, and Sean started, uh, you know, Sean pretty much wrote this story. Um, you know, I, I did a lot of the reporting and investigating, but you know, Sean pretty much wrote and edited this, this whole piece.

• 4:42Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, I, I, I was sort of kind of like you were Dee, but a bit. Later on, I mean, when Jack described this to me a few months ago. You know, my reaction was like, wait. What? You know, at first I, you know, part of me was like, okay, so some. Some CIA guy or CIA contractor guy. Things he saw Osama bin Laden in, in uh, you know. Remote part of Pakistan. Okay. And then, you know, but the killer was Jack said. And he took photographs. I'm like, okay. Interesting. And then Jack's like, and we have the photographs. And then I was like, okay.

• 5:27Speaker 04

  Why? You know, let's, let's. Publish this story as soon as possible. Now that we've gotten the, the green light from uh, uh, from the original source. Um, and I, I do think it's important to, to say that at, well, at the, when we started working on the story. We. We were of the opinion, because as we explain in the article,

• 5:55Speaker 04

  when these photographs got sent back to Langley, to CIA headquarters, their photo analysts

• 6:06Speaker 04

  determined that that the figure in the photographs who looked like Osama bin Laden almost certainly was Osama bin Laden. Now, the reporting that we've done in the last sort of six weeks or so,

• 6:24Speaker 04

  indicates that that probably isn't true.

• 6:29Speaker 04

  And it was probably a doppelganger. Well, the the Pakistani government supposedly tracked this guy down after being given a sort of a heads up on it by the CIA. And as I, as we mentioned in the article, it probably wasn't too hard for the Pakistanis to track this guy down, because even though it's the middle of nowhere in Pakistan, the still images from the video that the CIA contractor took have the vehicles that the Osama lookalike character is riding in's license plate clearly visible on them.

• 7:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, and there's signage too of like, you know, like there's signages of like the market and stuff like that. So I would assume analysts could figure that out.

• 7:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, but I, yeah, I would imagine, not for me to tell police state intelligence organizations how to do their job, but I would imagine if the director general of the ISI, Pakistan's sort of leading intelligence agency, gets a photograph like that, he, you know, quickly goes down the the chain of command and somebody probably

• 7:49Speaker 04

  foots it up to Shetral to figure out who's got that vehicle with that license plate. And you know, once they find that out, I would imagine it would be pretty easy to figure out who his passenger was.

• 8:04Speaker 04

  And we explain who the passenger was in all likelihood, because the CIA

• 8:11Speaker 04

  Themselves then sent, uh, sent individuals into a remote part of Afghanistan to, uh, track this guy down and they managed to do that and they confirmed that it was a guy who looked exactly like Osama bin Laden, but was not Osama bin Laden.

• 8:31Jack Murphy?

  Just to back up a little bit and tell people, you know, how, what we're talking about, how it came about. The, this story is fundamentally about, uh, three people, um, all working for the CIA, um, a case officer, a contractor and a interpreter slash driver, um, that went up into a very remote valley in Afghanistan. Um, not that they had any reporting, but they sort of had a hunch, like this is a valley south of Kunar, Tora Bora, where bin Laden was last known sort of in that area. Some people suspect he came across the border from a town called Barracote. Um, so it's kind of makes sense that he could be in the

• 9:16Jack Murphy?

  Shaitral Valley system. Um, so they drive up there, um, it to take photographs and, um, you know, one of them is a, a member of a, a organization in the counterterrorism center that was kind of just called the Surveillance Group. Um, as I understand, it was started by Billy Waugh and those guys, um, you know, they were, they were contractors, uh, and they were nicknamed the Marco Polos. Sometimes, uh, you might hear that name thrown about. And what he was doing, you know, this surveillance job, they were going into, you know, recon this valley and, you know, see maybe if this is a place where bin Laden could possibly be hiding. Instead of taking pictures, because obviously you're just walking around taking

• 10:01Jack Murphy?

  pictures all day, he found it easier to just have a camcorder and just make recordings. And at the time this incident happened, they were pulled off on the side of the road and he was holding the camera right here. Like he'd be doing that as they're driving around recording. And so while they're on the side of the road doing like a map check, this vehicle comes down on the opposing lane of traffic. And it's like a Jeep with a driver, a passenger and a couple of kids in the bed of the truck. And the passenger, I mean, when you look at the photographs, which are in this story, you'll be like, holy shit, that's Bin Laden like that. And that's exactly what these CIA personnel thought. They're like, oh my God.

• 10:43Jack Murphy?

  Um, and then you get into the question of, well, and we, we write about this in the article, but well, if they saw Bin Laden, why didn't they just take him out right then? They had pistols, they had rifles in the trunk. And the source told me, interestingly, he was like, I had never, even in 2005, seen a lethal finding on Bin Laden. So he's like, if I got out of the car and shot him, I, I could have gone to jail. Um, you know, he could have gotten charged. Now realistically, I don't think that ever would happen, but you know, there was that. And then the other factor was, okay, great. You killed Bin Laden, but good luck getting out of that valley, bro.

• 11:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:21Jack Murphy?

  You ain't, you're not gonna miss it. There's only one way in and out. So I, that's a, that's a one-way trip for you.

• 11:29Speaker 02

  And he wasn't traveling with like a, you know, 30 guy, 30 man, motorcade or whatever.

• 11:34Jack Murphy?

  It defied some of the expectations, you know, that he was traveling around in the open, that he didn't have a security detail around him. These, these were kind of surprises. And they took those, um, they, after they got that footage, they took it back to their base. Um, and they took still photographs from the video, I think 26 stills, sent it back to CTC in the surveillance group and they did an analysis. And the analysis that came back positively identified Bin Laden somewhere above the 90th percentile. And they were, this was considered the best evidence we had on Bin Laden on his location since, you know, 2002.

• 12:16Jack Murphy?

  Um, and then from there, there's a, there's a whole unwinding of this story, which, which Sean got into a little bit.

• 12:22Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I think, um, obviously it's, I wanted it to be Bin Laden. I wanted this to be like some crazy thing, you know? Cause there isn't much talked about, about where he was between, you know, 2001 and 2011.

• 12:34Jack Murphy?

  Well, it could be, um, you know, I, I still. I think it's plausible that it was not Bin Laden, but I think there's also a chance that it could have been. And I think that even if we had access to all of the CIA's secret documents and files, I don't think you could ever, at this point, prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is or it isn't. I don't think you're gonna, you're gonna get that close to the truth. But there is, you know, as Sean got into a little bit, you know, one of the big breaks, I guess, or one of the surprising hits I had as I was canvassing people for more information about this, and I'm sure all of the former

• 13:16Jack Murphy?

  agency people that I send these canvas emails out to are really appreciate my prying. But I did find, I did find somebody who was actually sent up into Kunar in Afghanistan because they thought that this Bin Laden, quote unquote, you know, in air quotes at this point, might be up there, and they sent him up to confirm or deny. I don't know, maybe you want to take it from there, Sean?

• 13:45Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, that was, you know, testament to your source network, but also still a lucky break that, that, that you reached out to a guy who happened to have been someone who had the sort of knowledge of the eyes on mission to, to, to check out basically what the Pakistanis had told the Americans about. Oh, you know, it's not Bin Laden, it's really this other guy, don't worry about it. And I think the CIA was like, you know, trust

• 14:26Speaker 04

  but verify, you know, when it came to, when it came to that. So they sent their own team up to Kunar. There was a sort of a Cover for action, if you like, for that mission where they they went up with some Navy SEALs and some of their Afghan militia men to do a medcap, which is a basically a it's it's when you bring medical personnel into the hinterland and offer you know, first aid and and and basic medical care to the locals who may not have had access to that

• 15:10Speaker 04

  previously. And there were a couple of agency officers on that on those helos going up into Kunar and they sort of, I guess, peeled off from the medcap and tracked down the chief of police and the local Afghan intelligence representative and said, hey, we're looking for this guy and he looks just like Osama bin Laden. And the police chief apparently was like, I know who you're talking about. Yeah, he does look like bin Laden. You know, come with me. Well, we'll go meet him. You know, very shortly thereafter, the CIA officer was face to face with the bin Laden lookalike. Bin Laden cosplayer.

• 15:54Speaker 04

  Guy who was was photographed in in in Shetral.

• 16:00Speaker 04

  And I, you know, I I don't have any reason to to doubt that it, as Jack said, anytime you're involved with such a strategic level

• 16:20Speaker 04

  issue, particularly if it was really bin Laden in Shetral, you know, the Pakistanis would have been looking very suspicious. And I and I quote somebody in the in the article, you know, somebody who'd been posted to the US Embassy in Islamabad, saying that as far as they were concerned. While they don't think that this individual was Osama bin Laden, they are convinced that the Pakistanis were managing bin Laden, that the ISI had, you know, probably a

• 16:59Speaker 04

  a small, compartmented uh, team that that was managing bin Laden.

• 17:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's like it's reverse Alex station.

• 17:09Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think one of the most uh, you know, interesting parts of the story, especially for people who get into the sort of spy versus spy business and and who are interested in the way, the controversial way, I think that the US government has handled its relations with Pakistan since nine eleven. Um, is that the uh, the station chief, the CIA station chief in Islamabad, in the the senior CIA officer in Pakistan,

• 17:51Speaker 04

  um, was back in Washington at around this time, well, just after the this uh, this mission into Shetral where they they they caught the bin Laden looking character uh, on uh, on camera. Um, because the head of the ISI, then Lieutenant General Kayani, um, who went on to become the uh, the uh, the head of the entire Pakistani army. Um,

• 18:23Speaker 04

  he was at the Bethesda Naval Hospital, the US Bethesda Naval Hospital in in Bethesda, Maryland, just a 10 minute drive from where I'm where I am right now. Um.

• 18:37Speaker 04

  Getting, getting treatment, which is the sort of thing that apparently the, the US government offered a lot of senior Pakistani military and intelligence folks. If, if there was a belief that they could at some point be of use to the United States. And, and so the, the station chief takes it upon himself to go to supposedly to go into Kayani's hospital room and, and kind of boast to him almost to say, hey, you know, we've got photographic proof that bin Laden is in Pakistan, you know, and sort of here it

• 19:20Speaker 04

  is. And so supposedly Kayani took that in stride and said, okay, well, you know, we'll look into it. And then the story transpired as, as we've discussed already. The, the individual that is the supposed person who was photographed and who the CIA officers met up in Kuna was actually an Afghan lumber merchant who frequently crossed the border from Kuna and, and sort of that part of Afghanistan, the sort of northeastern

• 19:59Speaker 04

  part of Afghanistan, across the border into Pakistan, into, into the Chitral Valley. And he was on one of those trips when he got, when he got photographed.

• 20:11Speaker 02

  I mean, the conspiracy, I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but the conspiracy theorist in me is like, if they really were managing bin Laden, right? Why not, you know, get a double? And, and you know what I mean?

• 20:24Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, right. I mean, yeah, I mean, if it really was him, they would go in there and really manage him and get him under thumb at that point and try to redirect attention elsewhere. But I don't know that that's the case.

• 20:37Speaker 02

  Sure. No, that's like a conspiracy, obviously a conspiracy, like that's a reach. There's no evidence of that.

• 20:44Speaker 04

  And what was quite clear from our interviews was that the the act of the CIA station chief divulging this information to the head of the ISI made a lot of people in the CIA very upset.

• 21:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, I put it right here. I put that like highly controversial in the CIA in my notes right here because I'm sure he did it on his own. No like talking with whoever you need to talk to to be like, maybe this is a move or something like that. Well, how wise is this beneficial for us? Yeah, I'm sure people were not happy.

• 21:21Speaker 04

  Yeah, there's a long running sort of

• 21:28Speaker 04

  I don't know how to describe it cleft in the CIA or certainly you know, controversy certainly back then as to whether the Islamabad Station

• 21:45Speaker 04

  was too friendly with the ISI.

• 21:50Speaker 04

  You know, the ISI essentially had created virtually the Taliban, or at least the Taliban would never have been able to take over Afghanistan the first time without the ISI's support. And the ISI only reluctantly sort of half dropped them as clients after nine eleven when the United States was in full sort of blood and thunder mode in the in the wake of nine eleven. But they pretty quickly picked them up again. And you had this absurd situation where the United States would sometimes describe Pakistan as an ally.

• 22:37Speaker 04

  But the whole reason, uh, in the end, that the, that the United States was bogged down in a war in Afghanistan was because of the Taliban, which the ISI was, uh, supporting, you know, the, the, the Shura that ran the Taliban, the Quetta Shura, was based in Quetta, which is a garrison town in, uh, in, uh, in Baluchistan, in, uh, in Pakistan. So, you know, it became a, it became very frustrating and there was a real feeling right after nine 11 that, um, uh, that the, amongst some of the CIA officers who were

• 23:21Speaker 04

  working with the Northern Alliance, that the Islamabad station had sort of essentially been captured by the ISI. I'm not saying that that was the case. I'm just saying that that perception existed amongst some in, uh, in the agency.

• 23:38Speaker 02

  I mean, is that an effort on the, on the Islamabad station to like cooperate better with like your, the, the country's intelligence service?

• 23:48Jack Murphy?

  There are always these sorts of accusations of like source capture that, you know, you want to appease the liaison that you're working with. And, you know, there, there's, you probably have heard these complaints about the State Department too, that they, you know, especially the political appointees, they forget who they're working for because they get so close to the host nation.

• 24:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:09Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 24:10Speaker 02

  CIA guys would know the difference though.

• 24:12Speaker 04

  Yeah. It's just that in a lot of these countries, um, the liaison relationship is, is key to how the CIA operates. Um, and, uh, in-

• 24:29Speaker 04

  In a lot of the countries, it makes obvious sense. Okay, I mean, obviously in other Western countries, uh, you know, the, the, the London station chief, you would expect to have, you know, incredibly close relations with MI6 and so forth. Um, uh, even in, in the more authoritarian, but generally pro-Western, uh, Arab capitals, like, you know, in Morocco or somewhere like that, you'd expect to have a, a close, uh, liaison relationship. In Pak- in Pakistan, it just becomes

• 25:12Speaker 04

  more controversial because the ISI so often has seemed to be working against American interests. Um, so it, it, it starts to become a question of who, who is playing who in that, in that relationship.

• 25:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it's funny, uh, you guys mentioned the, uh, there was a report that came out after bin Laden was killed by, uh, Pakistan. And, uh, in that report, there was one line talking about that valley. And another thing about that that was very interesting that speaks to the CIA ISI relationship is like, they reported in that report that after that moment, the CIA pretty much stopped cooperating with the ISI.

• 25:55Speaker 04

  Yeah, certainly on bin Laden's location. That, that, uh, supposed, uh, hospital room, uh, conversation in which the station chief divulged what, what the CIA thought of regarding these photographs from, from Shetrol. Um, uh, according to the Abbottabad Commission, which is the commission that the uh, Pakistani government set up in the wake of the 2011 raid on Abbottabad that, that killed uh, Osama bin Laden. Um,

• 26:32Speaker 04

  According to to the station chief, I beg your pardon, according to the the head of the ISI, who who was referenced in the Abbottabad Commission report, that that conversation was the last time that the CIA fed any useful information to

• 26:58Speaker 04

  to ISI about where they thought bin Laden might be.

• 27:03Speaker 04

  So it proved it certainly proved, I mean, that was a nice thing to find in the report. Because, you know, it it made clear that the CIA had indeed, it backed up our sources who said, yeah, the CIA told told the ISI that that they thought bin Laden was in Shattar.

• 27:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, another crazy part, you guys referenced the eggs, the exile, is that the book?

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• 29:25Speaker 02

  You guys referenced in the article?

• 29:26Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 29:27Speaker 02

  Where they think that Osama Bin Laden went from Kunar, I want to say, to Karachi for a couple of months?

• 29:36Speaker 02

  I mean, how does the world's most wanted guy go to a fucking Karachi? I mean, it's not exactly a short drive for a couple of months before he ends up in Abbottabad. Like, that's wild.

• 29:50Speaker 04

  How he got there, I'm not sure, but the, you know, those cities in Pakistan are immense, densely packed. You know, it's easier to hide, you know, I would say, in a big city like that than, you know, out in a remote valley somewhere, frankly.

• 30:20Speaker 04

  They ended up, I mean, when they ended, one of the ironic things about this is that the agency think when they were sure that they'd found him in Shetral, they, you know, they had to rethink about.

• 30:39Speaker 04

  What his footprint would be like. And they they were like, wow, there's there's no visible security detail here at all. Um, you know, we've, you know, we've, we've sort of been barking up the wrong tree on that regard for the last few years. Um, and then it turned out that even though that's not, that wasn't in all likelihood, the real bin Laden, the actual real bin Laden also wasn't using a big security detail.

• 31:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. Who do you have in that compound? His sons, the courier, and there was like,

• 31:12Jack Murphy?

  there's like one, one armed guy, I think on the ground floor, if I recall right. Yeah.

• 31:18Speaker 02

  And then they they also did like a, uh, what do they call medcap, right? Around the bottom bottom, when they did the vaccines or whatever to see if they can see inside.

• 31:27Speaker 04

  That wasn't really a medcap per se. It was, uh, they had a, a doctor who was, uh, giving polio vaccines, but was also sort of helping the CIA on the side. I,

• 31:43Speaker 02

  Moonlighting. Yeah.

• 31:45Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'm, uh, well, I think the idea was they were trying to get DNA. Um, and that, that's to from the compound to, to see if any of, if any of the kids he could get DNA from had, you know, bin Laden family DNA in them.

• 32:03Speaker 02

  Um, I really would love a deep dive about the, uh, the relationship between the CIA and ISI and this 20 plus years of.

• 32:13Jack Murphy?

  It's like a story that you're never, you're never going to get the whole story on that one.

• 32:17Speaker 02

  Right.

• 32:18Speaker 04

  I think, I mean, I, I know we're here to talk about our work, but I think Steve Cole has done a, a lot of, a lot of work on that. If you look through his, his books, um, and, uh, and the exile, uh, the book that I, uh, that, that you mentioned that, that, that we reference in the article, um, is a very deeply reported book on.

• 32:47Speaker 04

  The movement of Osama bin Laden and his and his family and the other senior Al Qaeda leaders as they were in flight after nine eleven and especially Tahrir Bora and um you know where they went and so forth. I think it's an extraordinary work of reporting that that should have gotten more publicity when when it was published.

• 33:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, if you guys know him, I'd love to get him on uh either here or

• 33:20Jack Murphy?

  I don't. We could look though.

• 33:22Speaker 02

  Because I think, yeah, like the times where, you know, bin Laden was missing for 10 years, right? And it's just like little hits here and there that are in the public sphere, but for the most part, if the story's really not super flushed out.

• 33:41Speaker 02

  Another bit of thing I'll talk about this. I want to talk about the CIA and ISI connection. I spoke to a former CIA paramilitary officer who wrote, or they lied because it turns out they were the ones hiding him. That's a direct quote from a CIA PMO.

• 34:00Jack Murphy?

  Right. And that and that brings into brings up all sorts of questions about what did Kayani really know? And when did he know it?

• 34:12Jack Murphy?

  And then it gets into some other stuff that's even more controversial. You know, the Seymour Hersh article.

• 34:19Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 34:20Jack Murphy?

  That that implies if that says outright that the Pakistanis knew we were coming on on some level at a high level. And there were assurances made they'd keep their aircraft on the ground that night. It's one of those. It's one of those stories. You're never going to get the whole story on what really happened there.

• 34:36Speaker 02

  I read the Seymour Hersh article. It seemed a bit crazy.

• 34:41Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, I agree that there are parts of it that I don't think are true, but there are other parts of it I think likely are. And that's the confusing thing with some of Mr. Hersh's ladder works is that it's it comes across like a mix to me. That my opinion, anyway.

• 35:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's actually getting a Netflix documentary.

• 35:05Jack Murphy?

  He's he's done incredible work in in in years past, broke massive, massive national security stories.

• 35:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:17Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 35:17Speaker 02

  Um, so what do you guys, what are you guys cooking up next? What have we got on the burner?

• 35:24Speaker 04

  I, I am trying my best to wrestle the second half, the concluding part of our two-parter on Havana Syndrome to, uh, to the ground, uh, before the end of the year. Um, I, I may never want to hear the freight Havana Syndrome again, uh, once I'm done with that. But, uh, I, it's, it's pretty interesting. Uh, we've got, um, we are going to, to anybody who's watching, who's a long time subscriber to the High Side, you may be wondering what happened to our

• 36:08Speaker 04

  series on the, called, uh, In The Kill Zone, The Life and Times Of Willie Murkison, which has been on a lengthy hiatus, but which I fully intend to finish up, uh, in the new year, uh, with some, you know, with a, a crazy story right out of the bat. Still, we left, we left Willie in, in, uh, Khartoum in Sudan, having, uh, just helped in the evacuation of, uh, several, uh, Mossad officers in, uh, wooden crates, uh, just one step ahead of, uh,

• 36:46Speaker 04

  Libyan, uh, counterintelligence operatives, um, uh, in, out of Khartoum Airport. And, uh, we're going to rejoin that story with him still in Khartoum and other crazy, crazy stuff going on, uh, going on there. Um, so I'm excited to pick that up.

• 37:06Jack Murphy?

  Yep. And there's some other things on the, well, they've been on the back burner, but coming on to the front burner for 2026. Um, some exciting stories, I think.

• 37:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, I can't wait. The Willie Merrickson one is so good. The Havana syndrome part one was so good because it's like an angle of the story that no one really talked about where it's like these, these victims are getting like actively harassed by either foreign intelligence or whoever else like they're, you know, getting fucked with actively as if they were like, uh, like on assignment in another, in a non-permissible country or, or Israel, for lack of a better word.

• 37:44Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 37:45Speaker 02

  That happens to them there too.

• 37:47Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 37:48Speaker 02

  Um, incredible. Also like because of the crazy news that happened last week with the, uh, national guardsmen getting, uh, shot and the one passing away. The, uh, former, um, Afghan.

• 38:02Speaker 02

  Uh, can I call him a CTPT? Is that okay? Is that what he was? The zero units or was part of that?

• 38:07Jack Murphy?

  It, it sounds like it to me. Yeah.

• 38:09Speaker 02

  Okay. Likely a CTPT counterterrorism pursuit team, a mega team, which was the CIA JSOC joint thing where they had Afghan.

• 38:22Speaker 02

  Militia is a crazy word.

• 38:23Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. I mean, it's a little, a little convoluted, but the omega teams were actual US army guys that were attached to the agency for these things. Then there was the, the actual CTPTs, um, you know, that were spread around the country. The one that this guy was a part of, I believe, was the Kandahar strike force. Um, I actually have a couple of pictures from a friend that thinks, you know, this is the guy from tours. He was, yeah, with over there. Um, but then the, the NDS called those units like NDS zero one, zero two, zero three, hence zero units.

• 39:01Jack Murphy?

  But they were only like, kind of like on paper NDS units. Like in real life, they were being run and paid for by the CIA.

• 39:10Speaker 04

  Yeah. The NDS being the Afghan intelligence service that the CIA created, uh, after the invasion of Afghanistan.

• 39:20Speaker 02

  Uh, and we had a great, uh, our last episode, you know, Mick Mulroy was a former CIA paramilitary officer. He was intimately involved with those units and stuff like that. And he said it and I kind of believe it. I mean, where these guys were vetted more than like 99% of the people that they worked with, the US worked with anyway. And like, listen, if you're in, in war perpetually for 10 to 15 years where like, you know, servicemen go home after a few months or six months. These guys are working the whole time. I mean, you're not going to come out of it like a totally adjusted human being. I would assume so. I don't think it's out of, you know, it's brutal what happened and you should be go to jail

• 40:04Speaker 02

  and suffer the consequences. But I think it's like a larger conversation about kind of the fallout of the GWAT.

• 40:11Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah, definitely.

• 40:13Speaker 02

  So yeah, if you guys want to read about the Omega Teams and stuff, they have an incredible, incredible article with pictures that everybody else steals. Uh, they're incredible. You have to check it out. It's the, it's the High Side Substack. That link is in the description. Sorry, Sean, I caught you off. I wanted to get a plug in.

• 40:30Speaker 04

  No, I was, I think I was about to say the same thing. So if you want, if, if you want to, if you want to read a bit more about, uh, the zero units and the Omega Teams, uh, you know, that we have a pretty in-depth article, uh, from a year or more ago, uh, on the, on the side.

• 40:51Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. I mean, if you guys to, to, you know, hawk our wares here, um, if you guys go and subscribe to the High Side, there's enough on there to keep you busy for a few weeks at least. Um, and some of those articles are pretty substantially long, like 10, 15,000 words and covers everything from like historical retrospectives about like the special forces teams jumping in backpack nukes, um, stuff that's kind of like on obscure to the public, like the commanders in extremist force. We have a whole article about that. And then things that have just been super top secret for many years, like the Omega Teams, um, but also the, the investigation about Havana syndrome that you mentioned.

• 41:34Jack Murphy?

  Isak, um, preparing for ops in Gaza. Uh, there's all kinds of different stuff on there. CIA guys getting into trouble with the law.

• 41:43Speaker 04

  Our, our, our rule of thumb at the high side is it has to be substantially exclusive information. So, you know, you're not getting just hot takes from us.

• 41:57Jack Murphy?

  Right, right.

• 41:58Speaker 04

  And that's not to disparage other people that do what I would call hot take national security websites, but what we are is investigative reporters. And so we hear of something and we dig into it. And then, you know, if it's worth publishing, we publish it. And the rule is if, you know, one of the first things I often ask if somebody gives me a tip or says, hey, you know, I, you know, I know of this story you guys should do is have you talked to any other reporters about it? Because if you have and they're going to do it, then we're not going to do it. Because I, I'm not willing to invest a month of my time to

• 42:42Speaker 04

  just, you know, add a little bit of knowledge to what's been published already. So that's, you know, that's, that's right. And I'm glad you mentioned how, you know, that how meaty the articles are. I, you know, we're coming into winter now, you could definitely hole up in a, in a cabin with a couple of good bottles of whiskey and, and, and the high side. And so long as you have electricity and an internet connection, you know, you don't really need anything else to pass the time for a few days.

• 43:20Speaker 02

  Are you guys sniffing anything about like Venezuela? What's going on there?

• 43:25Jack Murphy?

  A little bit.

• 43:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:27Jack Murphy?

  I don't know if they will end up reporting on, well, look, if something big happens in Venezuela, I'm guaranteed we'll be reporting on it sooner or later. But, um, yeah, I don't know, it remains to be seen as far as on our end. Because just like Sean kind of outlined, the, the basic protocols of the stories we go after, like, it has to be something that's newsworthy and previously unreported and properly sourced. So if those things come together, yeah, I mean, we'll, we'll report on it.

• 43:59Speaker 02

  I think there's something real spicy with the CIA general counsel stepping down and the deputy director appointing himself a general counsel. It's like a month ago.

• 44:09Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, I mean, you don't need me to tell you firing all these Jags and all these like legal count like, yeah, what you think is happening is what is happening.

• 44:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, if the CIA is to the point where like, general councils are resigning because like, this might be too crazy what's going on. Like, it's, it's pretty alarming.

• 44:30Speaker 02

  Because I, I might be right, I might be wrong. Correct me if I'm wrong, but like the general counsel, the CIA is also an appointed appointed position. I don't think it's just, it's like, God, it has to be approved by Congress.

• 44:46Speaker 02

  I'm almost, I've heard of that from a CIA guy.

• 44:48Jack Murphy?

  It could be.

• 44:50Speaker 02

  Yeah. So for the deputy director, so it's director, deputy director and general counsel. Those are the three positions that are Senate confirmable. So for the deputy director to name himself interim general counsel, because the general counsel who's there is like, I don't want to do this because what we're doing is fucking highly illegal. To me, there's spice there because like, you know, we're blowing up ships in the fucking Caribbean.

• 45:13Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. Well, well, that's, that's JSOC doing that. And you know, the CIA story right now is how little they're actually doing perhaps.

• 45:22Speaker 02

  So the word is that they went to the CIA and the CIA balked, but then JSOC picked up that baton.

• 45:27Jack Murphy?

  Okay. So yeah, there's, there's something to that. And if you recall Pete Hegseth's little trip down to damn neck, Virginia, and what, what that was about, because, because damn neck balked at it too.

• 45:41Speaker 02

  Shit.

• 45:42Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, you're right. Yeah. I mean, your, your, your intuition on that is right, that there, there is some spicy content there.

• 45:50Speaker 02

  Um, anything else, guys? Hit me with it. Carpe planche. Tell me, what are your deepest, darkest secrets?

• 45:57Speaker 04

  Well, you know, I think Jack and I like to.

• 46:02Speaker 04

  You know, sit on a lot of the stuff that we get. And not talk too much about it ahead of time until we know it's going to come to fruition. You know, we've got, I mean, without exaggerating, I'd say we've, we've got story tips, ideas that, you know, that the, the core of a story.

• 46:30Speaker 04

  In several cases, at the moment, in our computers, that would make Hollywood movies. And, and that we pretty much know are true, but proving that they're true and fleshing those stories out. For just, you know, with just two of us is incredibly time consuming. And for each one that you're doing that with, whether, you know, the great example would be the, the Havana syndrome story you were referencing earlier about how the, how some organization or organizations was

• 47:12Speaker 04

  taking it upon themselves to target Havana syndrome victims in the United States.

• 47:19Speaker 04

  I mean, that takes months and months of digging before the, you know, and drafting the story before it's, it's ready to go. And so these other ones would be too, but I'm, I'm excited to get to them because.

• 47:35Speaker 04

  You know, blow some people's minds, blow a lot of people's minds.

• 47:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm totally excited and I could totally understand. You guys have to triage stuff. It's only two of you. Yeah. I wish I could read and write. I would help, but.

• 47:48Speaker 02

  I'm, I'm excited for what's to come for sure. There's some wild stuff and I like, and frankly, you know, most reporters would probably run with the shit that they have just to like get it out there and get clicks and like not be well sourced and not be well researched. That's what I think cuts you guys above the rest. And that's why they all literally rip off your stuff.

• 48:14Speaker 02

  You know, so that get it at the high side. It's it's not it's not expensive. You know, it's five bucks a month and you get like hardcore investigative stuff where like you're not reading anywhere else. Um, I would say you guys are two of the best source reporters probably on this beat. I'm sure there are others that are great too that have it, but um, it's a very small, short list, I'd say. Um,

• 48:38Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, there's not, there's not a lot of people in this field. Um, and you know, I I don't hope I'm not making promises I can't keep, but in 2026, we hope to, you know, have some collaborations um, with friends of ours um, and and that, you know, who are outstanding national security reporters. Um, there's one story I hope to get to, which will probably have four of us working on at at the same time. So it's a i- it's gonna be interesting.

• 49:10Speaker 02

  How do you uh, four of you guys?

• 49:14Jack Murphy?

  Well, we have, we have not written it yet. So

• 49:16Speaker 02

  I'm just saying like, how does, how do

• 49:18Jack Murphy?

  ourselves here?

• 49:19Speaker 02

  Four investigative reporters, which are like,

• 49:22Jack Murphy?

  Everybody, everybody will bring something to the table on it, you know, something different and probably um, and all of that will have to be combined into one holistic uh, piece.

• 49:34Speaker 02

  I can't wait. Uh, and guess what? Everybody who's listening or watching right now, I am a subscriber, paid subscriber of the high side. So if I could do it, you could do it because I can get these articles for free if I really want. So um, do yourself a favor and get the high side. That link is in the description. Also, Jack Murphy, We Defy, The Secret History of Special Forces.

• 49:57Jack Murphy?

  Out now.

• 49:58Speaker 02

  Out now on Amazon. That link will be in the description. Sean Naylor, if you guys don't know, you're, I mean, people are watching this, no, but he literally wrote the book on JSOC, Relentless Strike, incredible book. Um, one of like the four books I've ever read in my life. So really, really good. Uh, no bullshit. That link is in the description as well. Uh, and I think that Willie Murkison book, that Willie Murkison series is a book.

• 50:22Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, I've I've told Sean that it should be a book.

• 50:24Speaker 02

  It is a book. And honestly, if Willie Murkison's cool with it and they're like his family and stuff, self-publish it. Don't even wait for a fucking publisher.

• 50:32Speaker 04

  Yeah, let's say that that that or the the honestly, the the stuff that was happening in in Sudan while he was there. Right. Could be a book in and of itself. I mean, that's just because it's that's tight in terms of the timeline. It's just a a few years. There's incredible drama um there uh and it's, you know, it's in a sort of a very, you know, Hollywood.

• 51:02Speaker 05

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 51:17Speaker 06

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 51:28Speaker 05

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 51:33Speaker 07

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 51:39Speaker 05

  So join us and hear their stories and more because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart radio app today.

• 51:59Speaker 00

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down rather than giving teens the answer. Study mode helps teens work through problems and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default, and parental controls offer families additional options like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.comPARENTS to learn more.

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• 52:58Speaker 04

  Sort of exotic locale. The hottest Khartoum is the hottest capital city in the world statistically.

• 53:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, I won't be visiting. Yeah.

• 53:08Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 53:10Speaker 02

  I'll read about it in the book. I won't be visiting. Uh, um, guys, as always, this is awesome. Of course, the Team House podcast, check that out. Um, check out all the other guys' stuff too. Those links are in the description. Uh, the best place to support the show, the show and Team House is patreon.com slash the Team House. You get both Eyes on Geopolitics and Team House episodes ad free early. Uh, you can message us, tell us how handsome we are. And High Side, check out their Substack. It's down in the description. Uh, do yourself a favor. If you're interested in national security, espionage, all the things we're interested in and you watch the show for, the, uh, that's the one Substack you should subscribe to.

• 53:56Speaker 02

  Thanks, guys.

• 53:57Speaker 04

  Yeah, thanks. Appreciate it.

• 54:00Jack Murphy?

  Hey guys, I want to tell all of you today about a new newsletter that we're launching that encompasses both the Team House podcast, the Eyes on podcast, and the High Side news outlet, which I run with Sean Naylor. Uh, the newsletter is going to be once a week. It's going to come into your inbox and you're going to get the most current podcasts on Eyes on and the Team House and whatever's topical or current on the High Side. So it's another way for us to get the information out to you as social media algorithms are pretty iffy and you never really know what you're going to get. Um, so this is a once a week email. It'll slide into your inbox and it will have, you know, the greatest hits of that week.

• 54:41Speaker 08

  It's really good. Checking it out.

• 54:44Jack Murphy?

  The website for it is teamhousepodcast.kit.com/join. Teamhousepodcast.kit.com/join. Uh, go there and you enter into your email list or you enter your email into, uh, the little thing on the website and you're good to go. And that'll be it. Um, so we really appreciate your support and hope you'll consider signing up.

• 55:09Speaker 08

  The link will also be down in the description if you're looking for it there. And that's teamhousepodcast.kit, K-I-T, kiloindiatango.com backslash join.

• 55:22Speaker 05

  Hi, I'm Jenna Ushkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 55:37Speaker 06

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 55:48Speaker 05

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 55:53Speaker 07

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 55:59Speaker 05

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeartRadio app today.

• 56:19Speaker 00

  ChatGPT for teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down. Rather than giving teens the answer, study mode helps teens work through problems, and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default, and parental controls offer families additional options, like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com/parents to learn more.

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• 57:21Speaker 05

  Hi, I'm Jenna Ushkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 57:36Speaker 06

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic. In a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 57:47Speaker 05

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 57:52Speaker 07

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 57:58Speaker 05

  So join us and hear their stories and more. Because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

• 58:18Speaker 00

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down rather than giving teens the answer. Study mode helps teens work through problems and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default, and parental controls offer families additional options, like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com/parents to learn more.

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• 59:21Speaker 05

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 59:36Speaker 06

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic. In a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 59:47Speaker 05

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 59:52Speaker 07

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 59:58Speaker 05

  So join us and hear their stories and more. Because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeartRadio app today.

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  ChatGPT for teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down. Rather than giving teens the answer, study mode helps teens work through problems and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default, and parental controls offer families additional options, like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com/parents to learn more.

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• 1:01:21Speaker 05

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 1:01:36Speaker 06

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:01:47Speaker 05

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 1:01:52Speaker 07

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:01:58Speaker 05

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat, it's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

• 1:02:18Speaker 00

  ChatGPT for teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down. Rather than giving teens the answer, study mode helps teens work through problems, and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default, and parental controls offer families additional options, like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com/parents to learn more.

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• 1:03:22Speaker 05

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 1:03:36Speaker 06

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:03:47Speaker 05

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 1:03:52Speaker 07

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:03:58Speaker 05

  So join us and hear their stories and more because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

• 1:04:18Speaker 00

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down rather than giving teens the answer. Study mode helps teens work through problems and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default and parental controls offer families additional options like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com/parents to learn more.

• 1:04:46Speaker 09

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• 1:05:24Speaker 05

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 1:05:39Speaker 06

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:05:50Speaker 05

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 1:05:55Speaker 07

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:06:01Speaker 05

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

• 1:06:21Speaker 00

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down. Rather than giving teens the answer, Study Mode helps teens work through problems and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default, and parental controls offer families additional options, like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com/parents to learn more.

• 1:06:48Speaker 01

  Cash Flow Crunch on Deck. Small Business Line of Credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:07:26Speaker 05

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 1:07:41Speaker 06

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:07:52Speaker 05

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 1:07:57Speaker 07

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:08:03Speaker 05

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

• 1:08:23Speaker 00

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down. Rather than giving teens the answer, study mode helps teens work through problems, and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default, and parental controls offer families additional options, like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com/parents to learn more.

• 1:08:50Speaker 01

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:09:21Speaker 10

  She's been thinking about this sleepover all week, but I think about her food allergies all the time. Fortunately, her doctor prescribed Zolair, omalizumab. It's proven to significantly reduce allergic reactions if a food allergy accident happens.

• 1:09:34Speaker 11

  Zolair 150mg is a prescription medication used to treat food allergy in people one year of age and older to reduce allergic reactions due to accidental exposure to one or more foods. While taking Zolair, you should continue to avoid all foods to which you are allergic. Don't use if you are allergic to Zolair. Zolair may cause a severe, life-threatening allergic reaction called anaphylaxis. Tell your doctor if you ever had anaphylaxis. Get help right away if you have trouble breathing or if you have swelling of your throat or tongue. Zolair should not be used for the emergency treatment of allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis. Zolair is for maintenance use to reduce allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis, while avoiding food allergens. Serious side effects such as cancer, fever, muscle aches and rash, parasitic infection, or heart and circulation problems have been reported. Please see zolair.com for full prescribing information. Ask an allergist about Zolair. This is an advertisement for Zolair,

• 1:10:19Speaker 11

  paid for by Genentech and Novartis.

• 1:10:21Speaker 00

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down, rather than giving teens the answer. Study mode helps teens work through problems, and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default, and parental controls offer families additional options, like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com/parents to learn more.

• 1:10:48Speaker 09

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of 5-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.