Zootopia 2

Disney’s Zootopia grossed over a billion dollars worldwide. Now our heroes return in the sequel Zootopia 2. Judy Hopps (Ginnifer Goodwin) and Nick Wilde (Jason Bateman) are now partners in the Zootopia police force. And there's a new problem: a snake has appeared in a reptile-free zone, and he brings to light a mystery from Zootopia's complicated past. The cast also includes Ke Huy Quan, Andy Samberg and Fortune Feimster, who add something new to what has already been a winning formula. Follow Pop Culture Happy Hour on Letterboxd at letterboxd.com/nprpopculture https://letterboxd.com/nprpopculture/ To access bonus episodes and sponsor-free listening for Pop Culture Happy Hour, subscribe to Pop Culture Happy Hour+ at plus.npr.org/happy. http://plus.npr.org/happy See pcm.adswizz.com https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences. NPR Privacy Policy https://www.npr.org/about-npr/179878450/privacy-policy

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:21Linda Holmes?

  Zootopia, back in 2016, grossed over $1 billion worldwide. So it's no surprise that we now have Zootopia 2. Our heroes, Judy the Bunny and Nick the Fox, are partners in the Zootopia Police Department now. And there's a new problem. A snake has appeared in a reptile-free zone, and he brings to light a mystery from Zootopia's complicated past. New voices like Kiwi Kwan and Andy Samberg add something new to what has already been a winning formula for Disney. I'm Linda Holmes, and today, we're talking about Zootopia 2 on Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR.

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• 2:20Linda Holmes?

  Joining me today is one of the hosts of NPR's Code Switch podcast, Jean Demby. Hello, Jean.

• 2:26Speaker 02

  What's good with your friend? How are you?

• 2:27Linda Holmes?

  I am so happy to see you. Also with us is Regina Barber. She's a host and reporter for NPR's science podcast, Short Wave. Hey, Regina.

• 2:35Speaker 03

  Hey, I'm so excited.

• 2:36Linda Holmes?

  I'm so excited to see you. And rounding out the panel, oh, is the former host of Slate's internet culture podcast, I See YMI. And, more importantly, in my heart, let's admit, former Pop Culture Happy Hour producer Candace Lim. Welcome back, Candace.

• 2:51Speaker 03

  Hello.

• 2:52Linda Holmes?

  Hello. So, at the end of Zootopia, Judy Hops, a bunny voiced by Jennifer Goodwin, and Nick Wilde, a fox voiced by Jason Bateman, became partners with the Zootopia Police Department, having worked together to catch a corrupt assistant mayor and put her away. Now, they're settling into their new jobs, trying to get used to the fact that she's a strict rule follower and he's a little more laid back.

• 3:16Speaker 04

  We have to set another meeting with the chief. Promise we'll be better. You talk back less. Maybe not at all.

• 3:22Speaker 05

  Yeah, or we go with my playbook and we just lay low.

• 3:25Linda Holmes?

  They get thrown into a new case that involves a snake named Gary, voiced by Oscar winner Ki Hui Kwan, as well as a lynx named Pawbert, voiced by Andy Samberg. It also touches on the history of Zootopia and exactly how it came to be run the way it is. Judy and Nick get a little help from a friendly beaver with the voice of Fortune Feimster, and they naturally cross paths with lots of their old pals from the first movie. Zootopia 2 is in theaters now. I'm going to start with you, Regina. You came in kind of bouncing with eagerness to talk about this movie, which I get the sense enjoyed. Why don't you tell me about that?

• 4:02Speaker 03

  I didn't think I would. I really loved the first movie. I think there were issues with the complications with racial politics and the drug war, but overall...

• 4:11Speaker 02

  She says, "Well, understatement."

• 4:13Speaker 03

  Well, overall, I think it was about also, you know, white feminism, which is the part I really liked. I mean, I really like that they addressed it. But I think I went in with like very low expectations and I went with my daughter, who is 17, and we were like turning to each other and we're like smiling and like the whole way through, I was actually surprised by stuff. So I, I really enjoyed it. I was surprised, pleasantly surprised.

• 4:36Linda Holmes?

  Yeah, well, that's, that is a good thing. Being pleasantly surprised is always a good thing. Jean, how about you? I, you have already sort of muttered your, your thought, which I remember from hearing you talk about the first one, that the politics of it were kind of sketchy for you. How did you feel about this one?

• 4:53Speaker 06

  I mean, I'm a sucker for like animated things with lots of puns. Yeah. Big fan of BoJack Horseman. So this one actually worked a lot for me. The first one was so exasperating because I'd be like, yo, this movie is, has janky politics. And I'm like, yo, it's a movie about a cartoon bunny. Relax. Like, you know what I mean? But the beginning of the movie, she's like giving out tickets willy-nilly to prove that she's a good cop. It's like, oh my God, there's so much history of race and immigration and policing that is just being like sort of skirted over to make these sort of like very happy points about like, I was just exasperated. And this movie was not that. And so just clearing the bar of like not being exasperated with this politics, although-

• 5:25Speaker 03

  I was less exasperated by the bunny character, yes.

• 5:28Speaker 06

  Just exasperated by the bunny character. But there is some stuff in this movie that it is flicking at that are like, have some, I think, sort of trenchant real world parallels. And it doesn't, it doesn't flick at them too hard, but it's like, if you wanted to pull at those a little bit-

• 5:40Speaker 03

  Right.

• 5:40Speaker 06

  It gets really tricky. But this movie seems to be less concerned with like sort of foregrounding those things, whereas the, very purposely in the first movie, they wanted to make a movie about race and representation and power and policing. And it's like, okay, good luck with that, bruh.

• 5:54Linda Holmes?

  Right. And this one, I think they, we talked about this a little bit after we saw it, that I think they're really more focusing on making something that's entertaining and visually witty and full of puns and cute animals and that kind of stuff. And it still has politics in it, but less prominently. So Candace, you, as I understand, really loved the first one. How did you land on this one?

• 6:17Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 6:19Speaker 07

  I like this movie less the more I think about it.

• 6:21Speaker 06

  Oh.

• 6:22Speaker 07

  See, here's the thing. So I really like the first Utopia. I like it because back then, March 2016, really didn't expect it to have these kind of subtext becoming text conversations about race and class and implicit bias and harmful stereotypes, all those things. I will say, I rewatched it recently and I was like, oh, unlock the affirmative action angle. There's like little doors I feel like I keep opening up. And I think the other strength of that movie is like this enemies to friendship arc of Judy and Nick, buddy comedy, all that stuff. However, as Jean is like very politely inferring to, that film is copaganda.

• 6:56Speaker 06

  Yeah, yes, thank you.

• 6:57Speaker 07

  It is. And the thing is like, upon rewatch, as someone who lives in LA, that scene where in the first film, where Judy Hopps basically just gives people parking tickets for being like one minute late, that infuriated me. Anyway, I say this because I actually expected this film to take that a little further. And I think that this film is a lot less political. It is less risky, it's less risque, and it really tones down the copaganda. Now, another thing I didn't really fully understand is that this movie, I think, takes place like a week after the first film.

• 7:26Speaker 03

  Not long.

• 7:27Speaker 07

  Not long. The first film's like whole conflict, right, is about predator versus prey. I just had a little bit of a hard time thinking, so you guys fix that? You guys fix all of that? Interesting. But also, I just think that was a purposeful tactic because I think in 2016, there were things that they could get away with that in 2025 I'm thinking more about. But also, I actually don't think I'm the main demo for this movie. I'm like third eye open, looking for any corner I can to see a deeper meaning. I don't think this film is that. And with that, it's a good sequel, it's not the sequel I wanted.

• 7:59Speaker 03

  I will push back just a little. I think that I really, really liked the first movie because, like I said, it addressed all these things. And I was actually an equity person at a university when this came out. And I had to like break apart all of these things. And I, I agree with you that it's copaganda. But I also think it really addressed white women that benefited from affirmative action and like didn't really realize these things and didn't realize their own biases. And I think that it was complicated and Convoluted, but it was also very binary. It was like kind of talking about black and white America. And this one, I foresaw that probably they would talk about different races than black and white.

• 8:40Speaker 03

  And I think that there was a very clear storyline of, you know, the Latino population, the Latinx population. And I think that that was what they were trying to do. They were like, now we're not going to get into binary. We're going to get into something that's a little bit more spectrum. And I know it wasn't super deep, but I think they were trying to do that.

• 8:58Linda Holmes?

  Yeah, I mean, there's no question that this film has its own kind of politics and real world stuff that it's trying to touch on, right? I think there's stuff in here about gentrification. There's stuff in here about, honestly, ethnic cleansing. There's, there are these references that if that's what you're looking for, it's absolutely there. I don't even think you have to have a third eye, Candace.

• 9:19Speaker 06

  Too insufficient.

• 9:21Linda Holmes?

  And I say this, I should have given this piece of background, but I never see the first one. Entirely like watch the whole thing. I saw a gazillion clips from it and I read a lot about it. What I knew about it coming into it was I did know that the first one had had these kind of heavy politics that kind of were sort of interesting, but also kind of messy if you explore them. So it was interesting to me that this one, although it has political elements, I do think this one maybe strikes a different balance in terms of if you are, for example, a six year old, they kind of just want you to have a good time. They kind of just want you to look at the funny snake and the funny bunny. And there's a lot of stuff in it about how to be an individual good person, how to be

• 10:04Linda Holmes?

  brave and how to be a good friend and things like that. And I think a lot of the systemic stuff would kind of go over your head as a little kid, which is probably okay. For me, watching it, although I appreciated where I think it's coming from on some of these issues about communities and how communities develop to exclude people. I did appreciate this movie mostly as fun and as visually witty, which is one of the things that I really miss in a lot of animation now. Every single visual joke does not have to be something flying into something else's butt.

• 10:43Speaker 06

  For yourself.

• 10:45Linda Holmes?

  That's a classic. There are different kind of things that are meant to be funny to look at, and I appreciated that. And there are weird ideas that I thought were cool and funny in this. There's a whole thing about how like the walruses, when they greet each other. And they say bub.

• 11:01Speaker 04

  That was cute. Hey bub. Hey bub. Hey bub. Hey bub. Hey bub. Hey bub. Hey bub. Bub bub bub bub bub. Bub bub bub bub bub.

• 11:05Speaker 07

  Hey bub.

• 11:06Speaker 04

  Hey bub.

• 11:06Speaker 07

  Hey bub.

• 11:07Linda Holmes?

  Every time it leaned into that kind of weird sense of humor stuff, I enjoyed it even more. And I did get kind of wrapped up in like, I cared about the people, I cared about the characters. So as I was getting tense, I was like, huh. You know, I'm wrapped up in this story. I hope everybody's gonna be okay.

• 11:24Speaker 03

  I think the first movie was really like zooming out, and it was like society. It was like systemic racism, you know, really whiteness. But I think this one really focused inward, and it was like partnerships. It was about relationships in general. I really liked that. And I think for a kid, you can focus on like, how am I going to be a good friend? How am I going to be a good neighbor? I think that with the bub bub, that's really important, that people talk differently in different parts of the world, and even in your city, and you need to like adapt, and otherwise they're not gonna understand you. And I think that that, again, it wasn't as, you know, hammer over the head as the first movie, but it is still talking about relationships. And I, again, this is why I liked it. I, you know, I think they did a good job.

• 12:08Speaker 06

  So here's a question for you, though. Like, if we just dig into like internal lore of Zootopia. Just for a second, just, just humor me, y'all, just humor me.

• 12:14Speaker 04

  Let's go.

• 12:15Speaker 06

  You have, apparently at some point in the history of Zootopia, there were reptiles who lived there. And they have been absent from this Zootopia, I was gonna say utopia, Zootopia.

• 12:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:25Speaker 06

  For generations.

• 12:27Speaker 03

  Well, they're still there, they're just, people don't see them. I mean, think about like, people who clean your houses, people, you know, like.

• 12:32Speaker 06

  But there's no snakes, right? There's no snakes in particular. There are reptiles around, but there are no snakes.

• 12:36Speaker 03

  Anti-snake, too.

• 12:37Speaker 06

  Anti-snake, right. And so they just kind of skirt by that? It's like, okay, so you have a society built on the exclusion of snakes, right? Like, that's not.

• 12:44Speaker 07

  Well, Jean, Jean, I'm gonna take it one more further.

• 12:47Speaker 06

  Go for it, go for it.

• 12:48Speaker 07

  So the entire film, I was asking myself, is the snake Asian? So let's have that conversation, which is that the snake is voiced by Keanu Reeves. Look, here's the deal. The snake's name is Gary De-Snake, D-E apostrophe Snake. So unfortunately, that is where my theory falls apart. However.

• 13:05Speaker 03

  That's all right.

• 13:06Speaker 07

  The whole deal is that the snakes in this film, they don't really exist in society. They're not accepted into society. They're definitely not getting SSIs off the society.

• 13:13Speaker 06

  I just thought it was very weird that everybody was basically on the same page. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, snakes don't live here. That's good, no one like, and no one said a bad word.

• 13:20Speaker 07

  But the thing is like, I think my issue, at least as a viewer, is just that like, I think I expected this film to have those layers, like a game for me to kind of unlock. And so I was kind of just reading every character as this, as that. I mean, for example, Fortune Feimster, right? First off, Fortune Feimster's whole thing is that she is a beaver. She's also a conspiracy theorist podcaster.

• 13:40Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 13:40Speaker 07

  There's that. And I just kind of feel like, one of my worst takes, to the point where I'm like, maybe don't publish this.

• 13:47Speaker 06

  No, no, no. You should absolutely say it into a microphone, please.

• 13:50Speaker 07

  I kind of wish the snake was voiced by Awkwafina. I know, I know, I know, I know.

• 13:58Speaker 06

  Oh my gosh.

• 14:00Speaker 07

  Because in a weird way, it would uncomplicate the things that I'm trying to complicate. And that's my thing.

• 14:05Speaker 03

  Makes me think of Lucy Liu as the snake in Kung Fu Panda. So snakes are Asian. There is a canon, at least, right?

• 14:11Speaker 06

  This is the thing about those utopian movies, like, look at the conversation we're having about a movie about cartoon bunnies. You know what I'm saying?

• 14:15Speaker 07

  I know, I know.

• 14:16Speaker 03

  There's more than just bunnies.

• 14:18Speaker 06

  No, no, sorry, bunnies and foxes.

• 14:21Speaker 03

  Isn't that the whole point of the first movie?

• 14:25Speaker 06

  Oh my god. I don't know, like, does Disney, are they inviting this kind of?

• 14:29Linda Holmes?

  I think they are.

• 14:30Speaker 03

  I think they are.

• 14:30Linda Holmes?

  Yeah, maybe, maybe not at the level of Awkwafina, but like, I'll say this. I got the impression that they're inviting a conversation up to what happens in a society sometimes, is that the people who are originally there eventually are ostracized and excluded. And kind of as power develops, how it sometimes warps to become more.

• 14:54Linda Holmes?

  exclusionary and more brutal toward different populations. I think they're inviting that.

• 15:00Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 15:00Linda Holmes?

  I don't necessarily think that in 2016, they were inviting the conversation about like, what are you doing when you give a bunch of people traffic tickets?

• 15:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:08Linda Holmes?

  Because you want to belong.

• 15:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, I know. They didn't go that far. Yeah.

• 15:11Linda Holmes?

  So I think in this one, probably also, they're inviting up to a certain point, but they're not necessarily thinking through like, if the snake is Asian, then what does that mean? And what are we saying? And how does that relate to different pieces of history?

• 15:25Speaker 03

  I think they kind of are thinking about these things. I think they're trying to do a lot of things and they kind of, in the first one, they tried to do a lot and they didn't hold back. And I think this one, they tried to do a lot and they held back a little. And they were like, ooh, let's actually think about, what do I want to say? I could see that, in my opinion.

• 15:41Linda Holmes?

  Well, and it's very funny to me that in a film like this, you'll see these things where it's like, what are they trying to say about this, the identity of this snake? And it's kind of a delicate and complicated, like the because of who the voice is and because of all this other stuff. And then they're also like, Fortune Feimster is a beaver.

• 15:58Speaker 03

  I know.

• 15:58Linda Holmes?

  And so sometimes it seems to have a bit of subtlety to it. And other times, it just seems like they're going, huh.

• 16:06Speaker 03

  Well, here's something that I do think they were inviting that I purely rejected, which is, did you guys get the sense that they were trying to give Judy and Nick this like, will they, won't they romance?

• 16:15Speaker 06

  Yes, absolutely. So there's a scene very early in the movie.

• 16:18Speaker 03

  No, people are shipping hard, though.

• 16:20Speaker 06

  When Judy and Nick are undercover.

• 16:22Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 16:23Speaker 06

  And they're posing as a couple.

• 16:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, their mom and dad.

• 16:25Speaker 06

  And I was like, wait, what would their baby look like? I mean, because.

• 16:27Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 16:28Speaker 06

  No, he's a fox, she's a bunny.

• 16:31Speaker 03

  I think they would have to adopt.

• 16:32Speaker 06

  I was very much like, because in a lot of movies, a lot of cartoon animal families.

• 16:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 16:36Speaker 06

  Well, I know, we know. But in cartoons, when it happens, they're always like, the babies are either like, some of the babies are foxes, some of the babies are bunnies.

• 16:42Linda Holmes?

  But there's no question that, going back to like, one of my favorite genres, which is like the he and she solve crimes and mysteries, right? Going back to like, my love of like, moonlighting and like.

• 16:53Speaker 03

  Moonlighting, is that right?

• 16:55Linda Holmes?

  No, but like, but like in like, Scarecrow and Mrs. King. And like, all of this stuff that I have followed. As soon as you see like, they're going to a fancy party. And they're getting dressed separately.

• 17:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:06Linda Holmes?

  You know that they're gonna see each other and it's gonna be like, I've never seen you dressed up before. And they're gonna be like, ooh, and typically in one of these will they, won't they, he and she solve mysteries kinds of things, that's like a moment where you develop like, oh, they're going, oh.

• 17:22Speaker 03

  I liked it. I don't care. I don't care.

• 17:24Linda Holmes?

  They do do it, but I think for me, I think a friendship story is fine.

• 17:29Speaker 03

  People are like putting too much romance into the first movie with those like sexy tigers. So of course it's gonna happen. Do you know what I mean? Like they're giving people what they want. I know so many people that love that couple, so I'm okay with it.

• 17:41Speaker 07

  Okay, here's the thing. I didn't like it. I have to voice my opinion. And here's the deal, I'm not even against like a rabid and fox falling in love.

• 17:47Speaker 06

  No, I think you are.

• 17:48Speaker 07

  I'm not racist here, I swear.

• 17:50Speaker 06

  I think you are anti-misogyny nation. You would be out there in the street saying like, this is not what God wants.

• 17:56Speaker 07

  No, but here's the thing. Now Regina, you are right. Uh, there are two hot characters in Zootopia one. It is the police chief played by Idris Elba, verified, and the hot tiger on the subway.

• 18:06Speaker 03

  Not even the dancers? The dancers, there's a troupe of them.

• 18:10Speaker 07

  There's a troupe. And the thing is like, later on, the scene that we're talking about, it's kind of a little Ocean's Eight where they like break into a Met Gala sort of thing. They give Nick a tux, all of a sudden he's Oscar Isaac, she's in a dress. It's very Miss Congeniality. And I just was like, someone's gaze is about to linger, is someone about to dance? Is this one Harry Met Sally? Ah, ah, ah, don't do this to me. I got really weirded out by it, but I don't know why.

• 18:36Speaker 03

  I will say, can we bring up the gala?

• 18:38Speaker 07

  Totally.

• 18:38Speaker 03

  I was telling Linda before we, um, started recording that I really think that there are clear frozen parallels. Because in the first one, there were clear frozen parallels. Um, there was like the little girls dressed up as Elsa and Anna. There was Chief Bogo saying, let it go. There's all these like frozen parallels. With this one, I really think, and I don't want to give too many spoilers, but there is a clear frozen parallel from person she meets at the dance. I'm just saying, it's very clear.

• 19:06Speaker 06

  I see it. I see it.

• 19:07Linda Holmes?

  Frozen parallels. There are a lot of like little Disney jokes.

• 19:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:11Linda Holmes?

  There's a lot going on, for sure. I think I would say we enjoyed it. We were at different levels relative to the first one.

• 19:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:18Linda Holmes?

  I think Candace is our like closest thing to a naysayer, but I think even Candace found things to enjoy and appreciate in the movie. We want to know what you think about Zootopia 2. Find us on Facebook at facebook.com/PCHH and on Letterboxd at letterboxd.com/NPRPopCulture. We'll have a link in our episode description. That brings us to the end of our show. Regina Barber, Candace Lim, Jean Demby, when they do Zootopia 3, I pretty much demand at the same panel be constituted.

• 19:48Speaker 03

  I also demand it.

• 19:49Linda Holmes?

  Thank you all so much for being here. I appreciate it.

• 19:51Speaker 03

  Appreciate you, friend.

• 19:52Speaker 06

  Thank you.

• 19:53Linda Holmes?

  And just a reminder that signing up for Pop Culture Happy Hour Plus is a great way to support our show and public radio, and you get to listen to all of our episodes sponsor-free. So please go find out more at plus.npr.org/happyhour or visit the link in our show notes. This episode is produced by Mike Katsev and Carly Rubin and edited by our showrunner, Jessica Reedy. Thanks to Carl Kraft for their production support, and Hello Come In provides our theme music. Thanks for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR. I'm Linda Holmes, and we'll see you all next time.

• 20:30Speaker 02

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