Industry

HBO’s addictive drama Industry has never been afraid to wade in the muck, and the fourth season and finale was especially messy. The paths of frenemies Harper (Myha’la) and Yasmin (Marisa Abela) erratically converged and diverged, Sir Henry Muck (Kit Harington) lands at a fintech startup, and the parallels to real-life headlines became impossible not to notice. So after that harrowing season finale, we’re wondering what just happened, and where might the show go from here? See pcm.adswizz.com https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences. NPR Privacy Policy https://www.npr.org/about-npr/179878450/privacy-policy

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:21Aisha Harris?

  So if you've been keeping up with HBO's addictive drama, "Industry," you know it's never been afraid to wade in the muck. Financial muck, ethical muck, a man-child aristocrat aptly named Sir Henry Muck. The most recent season was especially messy as the paths of frenemies Harper and Yasmin radically converged and diverged, and the assorted parallels to real-life headlines became pretty much impossible not to notice. So after that harrowing finale, we're taking it all in and wondering, what just happened and where might the show go from here? I'm Aisha Harris, and today we're talking about "Industry" on Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR.

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• 2:13Aisha Harris?

  Joining me today is Wayland Wong. She's the co-host of NPR's daily economics podcast, "The Indicator," from Planet Money. Hello, Wayland. Welcome back.

• 2:21Speaker 02

  Hello. There's a hole in my bucket, Ayesha.

• 2:23Aisha Harris?

  Oh, yes. All the buckets. All the buckets have holes.

• 2:27Speaker 02

  Dear Ayesha, there's a hole in my bucket.

• 2:30Aisha Harris?

  Also with us is Sam Yellowhorse Kessler, a producer for NPR's Planet Money. Hello to you, Sam. Welcome back.

• 2:36Speaker 03

  Hey, Ayesha.

• 2:36Aisha Harris?

  It's great to have you both. So here's where we are at with season four of Industry. Harper Stern partnered with her old boss and mentor, Eric Tao, on an upstart investment firm. They're played by Myhala and Ken Leon.

• 2:49Speaker 03

  Why are you being so sharp with me?

• 2:51Speaker 04

  Because this is not some recreational [BLEEP] game or some lame extension of your retirement while you're floating around trying to rehab your life or, I don't know, cosplaying the roles that you have spent your life ignoring.

• 3:03Speaker 03

  When the [BLEEP] did I ever say I wanted it to be recreational? Do they really curse that much on the show?

• 3:09Aisha Harris?

  Oh, yes, they do. They absolutely do curse that much. Marisa Abela plays Yasmin. She settled into life with Sir Henry Muck, the tech aristocrat played by Kit Harrington. Henry's daddy issues and drug addiction, among many other things, quickly began to take a toll on their marriage.

• 3:26Speaker 05

  Please, Henry, please, put your big boy clothes on. Go downstairs and just, just try and face our public.

• 3:34Aisha Harris?

  Ugh, Henry. We'll get into that.

• 3:39Aisha Harris?

  Now, simultaneously, they merged their business interests. She managed to land Henry a CEO role at a fintech startup called Tinder and also get herself a job as its head of communications. I keep wanting to call Tinder Tinder. I know it's not, but, ugh, that name. So every season tends to bring at least one new big bad into the fold, an ultra villain among a sea of villains. And this time, it was Whitney Halberstrom, the CFO and co-founder of Tinder, who was slowly revealed to have exactly zero scruples of any kind. He's played by Max Mingala. And Harper and Eric uncovered some damning evidence about Tinder and left out an opportunity to expose it and cash in, complicating Harper's relationship with Yasmin.

• 4:22Aisha Harris?

  This, of course, led to some pretty devastating consequences for everyone. Okay, Industry, streaming on HBO Max. And so much happened this season, so let's just get right into it. Wayland, I'm gonna start with you. How are we feeling about where we are at now? This season was a very different beast from the the previous three seasons. Every season, it kind of morphs into something different, but this felt like a a reset in a way. I think, in fact, the creators, Mickey Down and Conrad K, have talked about it as a reset. So did this reset work for you? Did it feel fresh?

• 4:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, this is like the Fast Five of Industry.

• 4:59Aisha Harris?

  I love that reference.

• 5:02Speaker 02

  You know, I really respect the big swing they took in this reset. You know, they really broaden out the world, right? And so instead of being in this very insular world of finance or the trading floor, you know, they blew it wide open. And this season was kind of this, you know, talented Mr. Ripley meets Michael Clayton kind of paranoid conspiracy thriller. And so I do very much appreciate the ambition. I think as I'm processing this season, I'm realizing that this more expansive world is not my favorite flavor of Industry. I think I do prefer something a little smaller.

• 5:44Speaker 02

  I think it makes it more unique in that way when they stick to kind of the bread and butter finance stuff.

• 5:51Aisha Harris?

  Yeah.

• 5:51Speaker 02

  So not all of the world broadening worked for me, but a lot of it did. I still had a ton of fun, and I do feel like I have a lot of trust in the showrunners. So I will follow them to, I don't know, Outer Space or wherever we go next if we're using the Fast and the Furious model here. I mean, I I just really have a lot of fun with the show.

• 6:12Aisha Harris?

  Yeah, yeah. Outer Space, the Frozen Tundra, like, who knows where this could go next?

• 6:16Speaker 06

  That's where Harper belongs, yeah.

• 6:19Speaker 02

  In a car with ludicrous and Outer Space.

• 6:22Aisha Harris?

  I don't know about Harper, but maybe yes.

• 6:25Speaker 06

  Well, that's where Eric Tao was walking.

• 6:29Speaker 06

  He never stopped. He just kept going north.

• 6:32Aisha Harris?

  He just kept going. He's still walking. Still walking. So Sam, how about you? How are you feeling about this reset, as it were?

• 6:38Speaker 06

  OK, so the question is, does the reset work? Or do I miss what industry used to be? And I think my answer is, is both and.

• 6:48Aisha Harris?

  Oh, oh, oh. Good callback. Love this.

• 6:51Speaker 06

  The thing of this season is that we're blowing up the format. We're outside of the bank. We're off the trading floor and everyone's kind of fending for themselves. I am a little bit sad, like every season I get a little bit more sad that we have lost that kind of core four of Gus, Rob, Harper and Yasmin. But I think finagling that to turn to Yasmin and Harper is probably the right move. They made a lot of really good decisions this season to kind of ramp up the stakes. I take points away because it's a, it became something of like a predictable show. You know, sometimes like overly dramatic and the characters are very lived in. I didn't feel like there was any kind of like massive twists or turns along the way. But it also doesn't feel cheap. It feels very real and it's always incredibly entertaining to watch play out. The characters are just incredibly entertaining to watch in how predictable they are and their flaws.

• 7:36Speaker 06

  And, you know, some of the lows that they sink to.

• 7:38Aisha Harris?

  I, you know, I think I sit somewhere where you both are living in that there were so many things that I loved about this and I do feel like the reset helped it feel different from the previous seasons, even though a lot of the same themes were being talked about. I've really enjoyed how this show has sort of every season, as I've already mentioned, brings in its new kind of big bad. And, you know, in previous seasons, it was Jesse Bloom, the character played by Jay Duplass, who was the hedge fund manager who Harper was working with as a client when she was still at Pier Point. We also had like other figures and I think that to expand beyond this like one financial institution

• 8:19Aisha Harris?

  and to show how it's incorporated and compromised with every other level of like the world of the economy. So you have the media aspect of it. You have the billionaire class part of it and the political part of it. And, you know, I'm not going to sit here and pretend I know much, if anything, about British politics. But I did find it interesting to see the way that whole idea of follow the money. The money goes everywhere and everyone is compromised. And I really liked that. I think where it fell short for me, and maybe we can talk a little bit more about this, is sort of this Henry Muck situation here, which began in season three. And then this season, I know there were a lot of people who praised the episode that

• 9:04Aisha Harris?

  was kind of contained, where it was just about him kind of on the precipice of his 40th birthday and-

• 9:09Speaker 02

  Oh, with his ghost dad and stuff?

• 9:12Aisha Harris?

  Yes, with his ghost dad.

• 9:13Speaker 06

  Wait, that was a ghost the whole time? Oh, my God, that changes everything.

• 9:18Aisha Harris?

  Yeah, wait, are you being serious?

• 9:19Speaker 06

  It's okay.

• 9:20Aisha Harris?

  Okay.

• 9:22Speaker 02

  Sorry.

• 9:23Speaker 06

  Sorry, Waylon knows I'm like this.

• 9:25Speaker 02

  Blow in Sam's mind over here.

• 9:27Aisha Harris?

  I didn't want to assume. And the way it's shot, very Kubrickian, it actually kind of reminded me a little bit, and I think this was intentional, there's the song that's playing, which is-

• 9:38Speaker 02

  Barry Lyndon? Love Barry Lyndon.

• 9:40Aisha Harris?

  Barry Lyndon, but also A Clockwork Orange, right?

• 9:42Speaker 02

  Oh, yes, yes.

• 9:43Aisha Harris?

  Because like, they're playing music for the funeral of Queen Mary, and that's a version of that appears in A Clockwork Orange. And like, as soon as I heard it, I was like, what do I remember this from? Oh, it's A Clockwork Orange. And I understand what they're trying to do here, but also, we already know Henry is, he just seems like the character who I didn't learn that much about, that I wouldn't expect. And I think that goes to your point, Sam, about like, it did feel as though the Henry character was kind of stuck in a loop. But also, we brought in so many new characters, and I'm curious what you thought about some of these new characters, especially Whitney Halberstrom, but also characters like the Kieran Shipka character, who she is playing Haley, who they call Calabasas

• 10:25Aisha Harris?

  in a kind of condescending way. And she's playing sort of, well, she's revealed to be a sex worker escort who has been brought into the tender world. You know, how do we feel about these new characters that were added in?

• 10:37Speaker 02

  This is a really interesting question, because earlier, Ayesha, you said that this season introduced a new big bad, and that, you know, a big bad of seasons past was Jesse Bloom, this hedge fund manager. And it's almost like, what is your definition of a big bad, right? And what I really liked about industry in the Jesse Bloom season was that like, is Jesse Bloom like, like a bad guy? Is he like, super evil? It's like- Not necessarily. Like, he's amoral, he's self-interested, he is motivated by profit. He happened to make a ton of money off of betting on COVID, which feels gross. And it fits into this gray area that finance inhabits of profiting off of often, you know,

• 11:20Speaker 02

  like misfortune and kind of like bad things happening to humanity. Now in season four, your big bad is Whitney, who is this sociopath with very little ambiguity or almost nuanced, like, from the jump. And then it turns out the big, big bad is Ferdinand, who works at Tinder, and they're connected to the Kremlin. And it feels like too conventional in some ways, you know what I mean?

• 11:43Aisha Harris?

  Also, they're Nazis. Let's not forget they're Nazis.

• 11:45Speaker 02

  And they were Nazis. And so I kind of prefer the morally gray big bad, so to speak, where you could even put Harper and Yasmin in that category, like, is everyone like a medium bad, a small to medium bad? You know, and that is, to me, a more interesting space to play in. And I think the fact that Henry Muck, who is also like a medium bad, and that he is like super privileged and has not spent a lot of time questioning his class privilege and is like really messed up in lots of ways, you know, the way he just kind of gets ensnared with this whole Russian plot feels, you know, maybe less compelling than if something else had happened to him vis-à-vis Whitney, you know?

• 12:27Aisha Harris?

  Yeah.

• 12:27Speaker 06

  I think they did, they made the right choice to kind of focus on these people who are more slightly in the gray area rather than the outright Nazis. Even Max, I was interested to hear you say like that he was somewhat sinister, because definitely from the beginning, I guess I didn't really know where to place him. And there was more of a sensation that he might just be as amoral as everyone else, but not outright psychopathic. And they do have an episode with him and Kit Harrington's character where they kind of flesh out this like strange codependency. I like that it felt like an episode of I Love Dick. Where he's like writing him all these letters and like kind of showing that he's not just like, he's not unfeeling, like he's not, he's not a psychopath in the truest sense.

• 13:11Speaker 06

  But he does have a very complex kind of a relationship with Henry Muck. I like that kind of like dance that they have going between them where you're not sure exactly how far it's going behind the scenes.

• 13:21Speaker 02

  I think I wanted more of that. Do you know what I mean? I feel like they made this turn where it was like, oh, Whitney is doing all this creepy stuff to Henry. And I wish they had maybe had a little bit more like cat and mouse where, oh, now you think maybe Henry's playing Whitney or like, you're not quite sure where these men stand with each other. Instead you get, you know, Whitney carrying a bouquet of flowers, walking in on Henry in the shower when he's singing Gilbert and Sullivan.

• 13:47Aisha Harris?

  That scene was bonkers.

• 13:50Speaker 02

  Okay, okay.

• 13:53Aisha Harris?

  I wanted more of that like single white female stuff going on too. Like it did really feel like this season was playing with a lot of different genres. Like, wait, when you already mentioned sort of the Michael Clayton and, and the sort of intrigue in that way. And then you also have occasionally kind of like a stalkery thriller thing. I also just like could not help but notice that, you know, this was a season where, not to say that, so Conrad Kay and Mickey Down, the creators have very obviously and directly referenced various things from real life, right? They've talked about this in interviews. As of this taping, the creators have acknowledged that they drew inspiration from Jeffrey Epstein or Ghislaine Maxwell.

• 14:37Aisha Harris?

  But Marisa Abela, who plays Yasmin, has acknowledged there are parallels between her character and Maxwell in an interview she did with our pal Roxana Hadadi over at Vulture. But I noticed in season three that the whole subplot with Yaz and her father, Charles, who is played by Adam Levy. Where, you know, they have that mystery around his death off the yacht. But that whole thing felt very similar to the way Ghislaine Maxwell's father died. He died presumably off of a yacht as well. And so I was like, hmm, this is interesting.

• 15:06Speaker 02

  Well, down, down to the name of the yacht.

• 15:08Aisha Harris?

  Oh, right. Yes, yes, yes. What was the name of the yacht? I don't even remember what the name was.

• 15:11Speaker 02

  Well, the yacht in industry is named Lady Yasmin. And in real life, the yacht was Lady and then one of the daughters.

• 15:18Aisha Harris?

  OK, right. So again, you can see the parallels. And then, of course, by the end of this season, season four, we see that Yaz has kind of become very similar to what we know about Ghislaine Maxwell. And of course, this is Ghislaine Maxwell, who was a co-conspirator along with convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein and who is currently serving a 20-year prison sentence for sex trafficking. And we see that she's Yaz has been going back and forth on this and has starts off like appalled at knowing that her father paid off women and made them sign NDAs for, for inappropriate relationships with his employees. And now she has just gone full the other direction

• 16:01Aisha Harris?

  and is working with the Haley character played by Kieran and Shipka to bring in more women to make deals and whatnot. It's both like, I appreciate these details. And at the same time, I wonder, you know, how much of this do I want to see continue into season five? Because it's so bleak. And not that the show was never not bleak, but it, it does feel as though I wonder like what the end of the road will be for Yaz. And, and like, where can we possibly go from here? Like, she's kind of completed her villain arc, I think. Whereas with like Harper, I'm a little bit more curious to see where she goes from here, especially without Eric.

• 16:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, I feel like the show, to me, especially this season, is strongest when it's looking at the Harper-Yasmin relationship, which, you know, is all over the place. It's up, it's down, they're working at cross purposes, they're teaming up, they love each other, they hate each other. I find it really compelling, that relationship. And the way they talk to each other is really honest. It's honest in a way that they are never. Than honest with their romantic partners, you know, so it's kind of like this is like the greatest romance in each of their lives is this like this friendship between them. So I feel like for me, it is also really hard to stomach the Yasmin arc, the way it ends at this end of the season. And I am clinging to that scene we get in the other episode where Yasmin and Harper go out.

• 17:24Speaker 02

  They're like, let's just go out. And then they have this like really fun night on the town and and just like sitting smoking a cigarette contentedly with each other. And I'm like, that's girlhood, you know, even though I did anything like that in my girlhood, but um.

• 17:35Speaker 06

  Like, nothing's gonna change this.

• 17:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I so I'm clinging to that. I'm like, I'm hoping that wasn't some kind of valedictory that we'll look back on with, you know, grief that that never happened again. I'm hoping they get back to some version of that. And I feel like Harper's kind of moral stand at the end of this season will be something that kind of gets picked up on as a thread next season. And maybe she'll be the one to lead Yasmin out of this dark place.

• 18:00Aisha Harris?

  Yeah.

• 18:01Speaker 06

  It does feel like they're doing a thing that like Fleabag did where over time it kind of whittles down to like what the core relationship of the show is. And it seems that they've decided that that's Harper and Yasmin.

• 18:10Aisha Harris?

  Yeah, I mean, I understand, and I think to some extent that, yes, the Yas and Harper relationship is maybe the core heart of it. But I still, I have to pour one out for her relationship, Harper's relationship with Eric, because, I mean, it's not clear whether or not Eric might come back. They've, you know, since that episode aired, you know, they've been very coy about whether or not Ken Leong is gonna come back. But I just love the dynamic of the relationship and the fact that like, A, it never got sexual as far as I can remember. Like, there was never any like, will they or won't they? It always had more of a like, father, daughter, or just like, straight up mentor, mentee situation.

• 18:51Aisha Harris?

  And I I'm so grateful when shows are able to do that, because they're both outsiders, right? They're both Americans in this world, they're both people of color. I think the fact that like, we don't really know too much about certain characters, except what we need to know. And I think this season was really about Eric and Harper, Eric trying to get closer to Harper because he's realizing he's lost any chance, real chance with his own daughters. And he's just like, okay, now I'm gonna throw this on to you. And Harper's like, no, I'm not gonna do that. And. The scene when she reveals that she just found out her mother died was like one of the best things I've seen on this show and on any show.

• 19:32Speaker 04

  My mom died. My brother called me from New York yesterday to say there'd been an accident. She just went overnight.

• 19:42Speaker 07

  Christ, I'm sorry. You can talk about it to me.

• 19:47Speaker 04

  That's the point. Like, I don't know what to say. I don't even know how to feel.

• 19:51Aisha Harris?

  I love that, and I think if it doesn't continue into season five in any way, that is something I'm gonna miss, you know?

• 19:59Speaker 02

  I will miss that, too. I wanted to say on the character of Eric and on Ken Leong's performance, like, to me, Eric Tao is the most complex, interesting Asian-American man I have ever seen on television. I have never seen an Asian-American male character like this. I mean, I can't think of any other example. I think he's so singular, he's so well-written and layered and interesting. And I do really love the theme that you picked up on, Ayesha, this idea of Eric and Harper being kind of this like surrogate father-daughter duo who are both Americans navigating their way through a very nuanced class system

• 20:43Speaker 02

  and a system of old and new money in the UK. I feel like that was like a huge theme of this season and has been a through line throughout the whole show. And I was thinking about how you see a glimpse of Eric's teenage daughter, the one that gets kicked out of boarding school. And I remember when you see her talk, she speaks with a British accent. And I thought to myself, oh, that's really interesting because if Eric's goal, subconsciously or not, was to assimilate into the upper ranks of British society or as far as you can go without being in the British peerage, you know, as far as an American can go in that world, then it's kind of like... He did it because his daughter has a British accent, you know?

• 21:28Speaker 02

  But he doesn't have a relationship with that daughter. And I thought that was really poignant.

• 21:33Aisha Harris?

  Yeah.

• 21:33Speaker 02

  I was also thinking about how Robert and Gus, they escaped this evil world by coming to Silicon Valley. Like, these two Brits, they ended up coming to the US. And then they're portrayed as kind of having gotten their happy endings in the US, in Silicon Valley. And I'm like, this show is like doing some really interesting stuff about like the interplay between America and the UK and what it means to have money and class status.

• 21:57Aisha Harris?

  Yeah, of course, we should be clear that like Robert and Gus were from the previous seasons. Gus was played by David Johnson and Robert was played by Harry Laughton. They started out with Harper and Yaz as sort of the upstarts at Peer Point. And I think what this show knows how to do well is sort of like let characters leave. I mean, obviously, I'm sure they're scheduling things and all that stuff, like production things that we don't even know about. But it also seems to understand that once a character has served its purpose or once they're no longer integral to the plot, they can just leave and it's fine. And we hear a little bit, if you listen closely, we might learn about what's happened to them from other characters talking about it. But I just think it's really interesting. And it's interesting to see that we also brought in,

• 22:41Aisha Harris?

  you know, I do want to really briefly talk about, you know, the Sweet Pea and

• 22:47Speaker 02

  I love her.

• 22:47Aisha Harris?

  Quabena subplot. Quabena played by Tahib Jimmo and Sweet Pea is played by Miriam Peche. And they're kind of like the underlings of the Stern Tao little upstart firm. And they are the ones who actually go out and get most of the evidence, you know? And I found that really interesting, too.

• 23:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, they do more shoe leather reporting than Jim Decker. These journalists actually does.

• 23:11Speaker 06

  He didn't get a chance, to be fair.

• 23:13Speaker 02

  I don't know if he would have made it, though. He was really rough shape.

• 23:17Speaker 06

  I don't know if Finn Digest had a travel budget for him set aside given everything that happened.

• 23:22Aisha Harris?

  Oh, poor Jim Decker. Charlie Heaton, who I was like, is this Harry Styles? I'm sure he gets it all the time, but I really thought it was Harry Styles.

• 23:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, they really look alike.

• 23:30Aisha Harris?

  They look so much alike. Yeah, that whole subplot was also really fascinating to me because, again, it's bringing in the media aspect of the way all this works. And given how the real world, we've seen how journalists can kind of get themselves embedded into things in ways that are Not quite ethical, and he certainly does. And yeah, just the way that it all intersects. It's just overall, I really enjoyed this this season, I think.

• 23:56Speaker 02

  I think they were also doing a thing this season where it's like, Henry, you actually see him with a pretty happy ending, right? He's on this rowboat, you know, catching fish with his uncle. And all seems right in the world. He's protected. He's back in his little cocoon. Henry gets like, you know, what is basically the best possible ending? He's not in an orange jumpsuit. He's not dead, you know? And I feel like it's the show saying that like, if you come from a certain social class and you have a certain status, you still prevail in this way. Whereas Rishi, who had all this money, who married into a white, upper-class family in Britain,

• 24:36Speaker 02

  was not able to hang on to any of that. And in fact, was given like a terrible, a terrible ending, you know? So I think it's a very bleak read of what, you know, upward mobility and what you're able to do.

• 24:49Speaker 06

  I mean, Henry does have that moment with Whitney where he is like, I'm not going to be like you. I'm going to lean back on my class.

• 24:56Speaker 02

  He said, I would rather die as me than run as you, or something, which is a pretty damning thing to say.

• 25:01Speaker 06

  And that's exactly what he does. And it turns out he made this like literally the best choice in the show so far. His only, his first good choice, his first good decision.

• 25:10Speaker 02

  Henry Muck.

• 25:12Speaker 06

  Yeah, literally.

• 25:13Aisha Harris?

  Yes, yes. All the muck is coming, coming up well for him. I do think Harper, to some extent, is sort of the opposite where, you know, she's obviously coming from really, really nothing and having picked her transcripts. And she's still somehow, being a black woman, able to come out on top. She is so resilient in ways that are, that boggle my mind, but also I'm just like, I'm here for it. I love seeing a black woman baddie.

• 25:41Speaker 02

  I think she's a master compartmentalizer.

• 25:44Aisha Harris?

  Oh, yes, yes. As we know, because of her mommy issues and her brother issues and all those things that they only hint at.

• 25:52Speaker 02

  I did like when she says to Khabina, you're like the only other black person I know and hang out with here. Like even though like, there's really nothing to their relationship. And she's like, well, it's nice to have you around.

• 26:04Aisha Harris?

  It's very real. I get it. I get it. I've been in those situations before. Well, we want to know what you think about season four of Industry. Find us at facebook.com/PCHH. We didn't even get to talk about the I want to dance with somebody, the little

• 26:19Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh.

• 26:20Aisha Harris?

  moment, which was just like so creepy, yet so

• 26:23Speaker 02

  I'll just call you, Ayesha, when we get off of this, and then I'll just sing that to you in a creepy, whispery voice.

• 26:29Aisha Harris?

  Oh, I love it. That's my ASMR right there.

• 26:33Aisha Harris?

  And that brings us to the end of our show. Wayland Wong, Sam Yellenhorst Kessler, thanks so much for being here. This was so fun.

• 26:40Speaker 06

  Thanks so much, Ayesha.

• 26:41Speaker 02

  See you for season five. Thank you.

• 26:43Aisha Harris?

  Season five, baby. Season five. Last and maybe the best. Who knows?

• 26:48Speaker 02

  Five seasons and a movie.

• 26:52Aisha Harris?

  This episode was produced by Mike Katsev and Liz Metzger and edited by our showrunner, Jessica Reedy. Hello, Coming provides our theme music. Thanks so much for listening to Pop, Put Your Happy Hour from NPR. I'm Aisha Harris, and we'll see you all next time.

• 27:11Speaker 08

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• 27:46Speaker 00

  This message comes from Abrams Books. Take a revelatory journey through Bob Dylan's early life and meteoric rise in the new book, Bob Dylan: Through the Open Window, featuring 100 rare images, an essential gift for Dylan fans. Available now wherever books are sold.