#421 - CERN Physicist Banned After Discovering Truth About Clouds | Henrik Svensmark

Watch every episode ad-free & uncensored on Patreon: https://patreon.com/dannyjones Henrik Svensmark is a Danish physicist and professor of Solar System Physics at the Danish National Space Institute. He is best known for his hypothesis that cosmic rays are one of the main drivers of earth's climate. The CERN CLOUD experiment is based on Henrik's theory. SPONSORS http://kalshi.com/r/dannyjones - Use code DANNYJONES to get $10 when you trade $10. https://shopify.com/dannyjones - Turns out you don’t need a real job. Start your free trial today. https://capl.onelink.me/vFut/zralgyl0 - Download Cash App today. https://upwork.com - Connect with top talent ready to help your business grow. https://whiterabbitenergy.com/?ref=DJP - Use code DJP for 20% off. EPISODE LINKS [email protected] FOLLOW DANNY JONES https://www.instagram.com/dannyjones https://twitter.com/jonesdanny OUTLINE 00:00 - Solar activity is changing Earth's cloud cover 04:16 - Galactic cosmic rays 07:31 - How cosmic rays create clouds 13:59 - Clouds might responsible for climate change 18:08 - Measuring historic cosmic ray activity 23:24 - Henrik's early experiments on cosmic rays 26:27 - Earth's historical temperature cycles 33:29 - The Sun's magnetic field has doubled 35:51 - Earth's trip through the Milky Way Galaxy 41:50 - How stars are formed 47:11 - Supernova activity correlation to Earth's temperature 51:55 - Earth is in a glaciation period 56:14 - Temperature changes vs. amount of life on Earth 01:04:54 - IPCC report on climate influence 01:10:28 - Bill Gates changes tune on geo-engineering 01:18:13 - Scientists fail to disprove Henrik 01:21:44 - Coronal mass ejections 01:25:40 - South Atlantic Anomaly 01:28:08 - How Earth's magnetic poles are moving 01:32:51 - Humans affect climate less than we're told 01:34:33 - When galaxies collide 01:37:05 - New revision on the Big Bang Theory 01:44:04 - How climate influences evolution 01:51:04 - Why Earth is the only planet with life 01:55:26 - The current climate forecast model is WRONG 02:01:11 - Difficulty funding climate research 02:11:44 - CERN's climate project 02:19:06 - CO2 is the gas of life Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

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• 1:15Speaker 01

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• 1:23Danny Jones?

  All right, Henrik. Thank you for making the trip here. I very much appreciate it. Your work is fascinating. And I'm sure there's a lot of stuff, a lot of different rabbit holes we're gonna go down during this podcast. But to start this thing off, how did you initially make this discovery that essentially, like, the high-level view is you're positing that where the Earth sits in the Milky Way galaxy is directly responsible for geological climate change on Earth?

• 1:54Speaker 03

  That's true, but that came later. So it actually, I mean, the initial thing has to do with solar activity. There were some ideas that if you have change in solar activity, then there were some changes in climate. It's an old thing, and it's something people have been speculating.

• 2:14Danny Jones?

  What? The sun affects the climate? Who would've thought?

• 2:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, but, I mean, you will be surprised how little effect it is believed to have in the, what do you call it? The International Panel on Climate. But anyhow, there was these ideas that when you have a change in solar activity, there seems to be changes in climate if you go back in time. So it's an old idea. And I was at the Meteorological Institute at that time, and I was looking for something interesting to do. And when I heard about this agreement between solar activity, I thought that if it's gonna work, the most effective way would be if solar activity somehow changes the Earth's cloud cover.

• 3:01Speaker 03

  So that was the idea. I mean, you probably know that clouds, they have a big impact on the temperature on Earth.

• 3:10Danny Jones?

  Because they reflect sunlight?

• 3:12Speaker 03

  They reflect sunlight. So they have to do two things. They both reflect, and they also keep the heat. But the friction is what, you know, wins. It has the largest contribution.

• 3:25Danny Jones?

  So what made you, what made you think that the solar activity had to directly affect cloud activity?

• 3:35Speaker 03

  Well, the idea was immediately that it had to be with cosmic rays. So cosmic rays, what are they? They are particles that comes from our galaxy, our Milky Way. They're very energetic.

• 3:49Danny Jones?

  Bless you.

• 3:50Speaker 03

  They're very energetic particles, and they shower the Earth. And the idea was that, I remember when I was in high school, I worked with what I call a cloud chamber. That was what we saw just before. A cloud chamber where you have particles, where you can see the streaks of the particles. So just like you have an airplane, you can see in the sky, you can actually see when the charged particles go through in a cloud chamber. So what happens is that you have a supersaturation, typically some alcohol. And then each time, each little charge,

• 4:34Speaker 03

  it condenses this liquid, and you see these small droplets. So that's why you see these streaks. This is what you see here.

• 4:46Danny Jones?

  Okay. Oh, this is the cloud chamber?

• 4:49Speaker 03

  So this is a cloud chamber, and you can see these long streaks. And these are what we call, I mean, these are cosmic rays that are entering through a very thin layer where the cloud chamber is active.

• 5:02Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 5:05Speaker 03

  So, and the very long straight streaks, these are called muons. These are actually produced in 11 kilometers, or 13 kilometers, or 20 kilometers. And then they move down through the atmosphere. So you have a collision, just like with Billiard, all the way down through the atmosphere.

• 5:24Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 5:26Speaker 03

  You can see it if you look at, if you take the one before number five. Yeah. So what you see here is from 25 kilometers and down through the atmosphere, you see one particle is coming in with a very high energy, and then you are producing a shower of secondary particles.

• 5:46Danny Jones?

  Wow, it's like a shotgun blast.

• 5:48Speaker 03

  It is. I mean...

• 5:51Danny Jones?

  And these are a cosmic ray?

• 5:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's called a ray because when they first discovered them, they didn't know really what they were. But they are particles.

• 6:01Danny Jones?

  So it's a, it's a sun particle?

• 6:03Speaker 03

  It's not from the sun. It's from our galaxy.

• 6:06Danny Jones?

  From the galaxy.

• 6:07Speaker 03

  So it's called galactic cosmic rays.

• 6:10Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 6:11Speaker 03

  So, and the thing is that if we go outside, I mean, when solar activity is changing, it modulates how many of these particles enters into the atmosphere.

• 6:27Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 6:27Speaker 03

  So solar activity can sort of regulate the number of particles.

• 6:31Danny Jones?

  So like solar wind? If we have lots of solar wind around like the Van Allen radiation belts, it can deflect lots of these cosmic rays away from the Earth?

• 6:42Speaker 03

  The solar wind, yes, exactly. It sort of screens against these cosmic rays, so they're just sort of scattered out into space. And these changes in cosmic rays are some of the largest that you have with respect to changes in solar activity. So you can have maybe 10, 15, 20% changes in cosmic rays.

• 7:06Danny Jones?

  And what is, what is so unique about the cosmic, these cosmic particles, these particles that we call cosmic rays?

• 7:12Speaker 03

  These are mainly protons, meaning that they are the simplest element that we have. So there's hydrogen, the core nucleus of the hydrogen.

• 7:24Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 7:25Speaker 03

  And they, I mean, the origin of these particles, or we can talk about that, is actually when big stars explode. So these are what we call supernova explosions. And when you have a supernova, you have this expansion of a shock front. And then these charged particles can get accelerated to enormous energies. So you can say that this works as a cosmic accelerator that makes these particles, that give them enormous energy.

• 7:58Danny Jones?

  Wow, and it just blasts some outwards through the rest of the Milky Way?

• 8:03Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 8:03Danny Jones?

  And it hits...

• 8:04Speaker 03

  So it sort of fills the whole part of our Milky Way and wherever you have the solar system. The particles, they enter, and solar activity can then modulate it.

• 8:17Danny Jones?

  Okay, so these cosmic rays, how do they make clouds?

• 8:22Speaker 03

  That is then the thing. In order to look...

• 8:27Danny Jones?

  And you didn't know they made clouds? You had to figure this out?

• 8:30Speaker 03

  I had to figure it out, yes.

• 8:32Danny Jones?

  Right, okay.

• 8:33Speaker 03

  So...

• 8:36Speaker 03

  If we look at number 14, I think, if you look at... Yeah.

• 8:46Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 8:47Speaker 03

  So if you look at the left-hand side, you can see you have three charges which are made by cosmic rays. And that stabilizes very small molecular clusters. And they are only about 1 to 2 nanometers. A nanometer is 10 to the minus 9 meters. It's so small, you cannot see it. So it's only, you know, a few molecules that stick together. But because of the charge, they are stable, so they don't evaporate again.

• 9:17Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 9:18Speaker 03

  And the idea is that if you produce more of these small aerosols, then as a function of time, they grow because they take up more gas. And you can have they collide, so they sort of, you know, stick together. And then at some point, they are, you know, about 50 nanometer. And then you can call them cloud condensation nuclei. Because in order to produce a cloud, it consists of cloud droplets, you have to have a surface on which water vapor can condense.

• 9:56Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 9:57Speaker 03

  So...

• 9:58Danny Jones?

  And those are the cloud droplets?

• 10:00Speaker 03

  And then we become cloud droplets. And if you have sufficient of them, you have a cloud. So the idea is that if you now have more cosmic rays coming in, then you are producing more of these cloud condensation nuclei. If you press...

• 10:14Danny Jones?

  And so...

• 10:15Speaker 03

  Just press one time down.

• 10:19Speaker 03

  Yes. So what you see up here is an indication that if you change the number of cloud droplets, you are changing clouds. What you see up here is a region from satellite image where you have low clouds. And then you can see that there are these stripes. And these are ship tracks. So what happens is that the ship is pumping out, you know, particles from the engine.

• 10:47Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 10:48Speaker 03

  And then that goes into the clouds. And you can see it changes the clouds.

• 10:52Danny Jones?

  Wow, like cargo ships in the ocean.

• 10:54Speaker 03

  Yes, so they change the clouds. So it's just like, you know, airplane, you see. But here it's in low clouds. So what it shows is that if you... If you... You can see it here. If you change the number of cloud condensation nuclei, you change cloud properties.

• 11:13Danny Jones?

  Whoa. So what are the differences between this left and right? By the way, for people that are just listening, I highly recommend you watch this on video, either on YouTube or Spotify, because this is going to be a highly visual episode. So what are the differences between the left and the right here?

• 11:28Speaker 03

  These are just different cloud scenes where ships have been sailing. So and in the one in the right, you can actually see that it is really clouds that have been changed.

• 11:42Speaker 03

  So the idea is that if the cosmic rays can do this systematically all over the Earth, because they are, you know, they are omnipresent cosmic rays, then it would be a very effective way of regulating the Earth's climate.

• 12:00Danny Jones?

  Wow, and you were the first one to posit this?

• 12:02Speaker 03

  I was the one that said that there is this connection, and that seems to be real.

• 12:12Danny Jones?

  And what has been the feedback from the scientific community on this specific connection that you've made here?

• 12:20Speaker 03

  I mean, I did it in 1996. There was a conference in Birmingham where it was presented the first time. And a newspaper, a Danish newspaper, put it out. And it... I mean, before that, nobody cared what I did. After that, it was completely crazy what happened. And we got an enormous reaction and very aggressive reactions. I remember coming back from the conference, and there was a headline saying, you know, "Strong UN critique of Danish researchers." That was the International Panel on Climate, which is under the UN,

• 13:05Speaker 03

  saying that what we had done was naive and irresponsible.

• 13:09Danny Jones?

  Naive and irresponsible. Did they disprove the connection that you made between...

• 13:14Speaker 03

  No, no, no, nobody has disproven anything.

• 13:16Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 13:17Speaker 03

  So...

• 13:17Danny Jones?

  Nobody has said that what you... The connection that you've drawn here with your evidence is... Everyone said that this is legit. No one's proven that's...

• 13:28Speaker 03

  Let me put it this way. When we started, everybody was saying that there's no... We don't know any known mechanism that can do this. So it cannot be true. I think now, the next step is that they're saying, "Okay, maybe there is an effect, but it's not important." And, you know, the final thing is that they say that this is what we all said all along.

• 13:57Danny Jones?

  Now, when you first came out with this, did you publish it to like a scientific... I don't know how that whole process works. When you're a scientist, you publish and all that.

• 14:06Speaker 03

  Everything I've been doing is, you know, going through the normal way of doing things, which is to find the results, write them up, and publish them in good journals. So it's what you call peer reviewed.

• 14:19Danny Jones?

  Peer reviewed, yeah.

• 14:20Speaker 03

  So it's no guarantee that things are correct, of course. But someone has seen it through and says that, "Okay, let's... Let's our colleagues consider what you're doing."

• 14:30Danny Jones?

  Right, right. Okay. So you made this connection with the cosmic rays being specifically associated with cloud formation?

• 14:44Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 14:45Danny Jones?

  Now, how do you extrapolate that into a correlation of the cosmic rays being primarily responsible for the change in the climate on Earth?

• 14:57Speaker 03

  Well, the idea is that if you change the clouds,

• 15:04Speaker 03

  you change the amount of energy that goes into the Earth's system. So if you have a systematic change in clouds, so I mean...

• 15:14Danny Jones?

  So let me ask you this, sorry to interrupt. But is it accepted with the mainstream that clouds are primarily responsible for the climate?

• 15:24Speaker 03

  Well, it is mainstream that clouds are important.

• 15:29Danny Jones?

  Important.

• 15:29Speaker 03

  Yes. And another thing that is extremely, you know... Everybody knows that clouds are the main... The most difficult subject in all climate modeling. Because it's so difficult to model cloud processes. So if you have a systematic change in clouds, and this is well-known. I mean, if you look at Maureen's status clouds, which are the low ones that you always see when you fly over the oceans, these endless scenes. If you change that but just by 1 or 2%, it is similar, you know, to all the greenhouse gases.

• 16:09Speaker 03

  The change in greenhouse gases. So it's, you know, 1 or 2 watts per square meter. So it is really important.

• 16:18Danny Jones?

  The low clouds?

• 16:20Speaker 03

  Yes, Maureen clouds, yes.

• 16:23Danny Jones?

  Interesting.

• 16:25Speaker 03

  So, I mean, if you show Slide 13, you can see the figure that actually started the whole thing. So what you see here is since 83, 1983 until 2005. And you can see the red curve is the change in cosmic rays over the... until 2006.

• 16:52Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 16:53Speaker 03

  And the reason that you have this change is because of solar activity. So this is the 11-year cycle that you see. So solar activity is modulating the amount of cosmic rays. And the blue curve, that is actually low clouds over this period. So you see there is a beautiful correlation, but it doesn't mean that we know, understand why it's there.

• 17:19Danny Jones?

  Wow, that is amazing.

• 17:23Speaker 03

  That's how it started.

• 17:25Danny Jones?

  So, yeah, so for people that can't see this graph, from 1985 to 2005, the correlation between cosmic ray activity and low cloud coverage is spot on. Like it's... It tracks perfectly throughout that whole time. So let me ask you this, though. How do you track the cosmic ray activity going back that far?

• 17:51Speaker 03

  I think since the beginning of the 1950s, you have been measuring systematically cosmic rays with something called neutron monitors.

• 18:04Danny Jones?

  Wow, we've had this since the 50s?

• 18:06Speaker 03

  Yes, in the 50s, yes. It was an American, actually, that started this part.

• 18:14Speaker 03

  So Newton monitors are operating and they're measuring all the time. So you can see changes in cosmic rays.

• 18:25Danny Jones?

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• 19:10Danny Jones?

  18 plus. Restrictions and eligibility requirements apply. Event contract trading involves risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Prices, values, and available markets may differ from those mentioned. For more information, see kalshi.com/regulatory. Past 1950, we can't go any earlier than that as far as measuring cosmic rays?

• 19:29Speaker 03

  We can.

• 19:30Danny Jones?

  You can.

• 19:31Speaker 03

  But it has to do with, you have to do it indirectly. So we call it proxies. So when cosmic rays comes into the atmosphere, they are producing new isotopes. That is, new elements. You know, carbon 14? You've heard about carbon 14?

• 19:48Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 19:49Speaker 03

  And carbon 14 is produced by cosmic rays. And so then you can imagine that you have this carbon is slightly heavier than carbon 12. So it goes into, it sticks to oxygen. So you have CO2 with carbon 14 and it goes into leaves and goes into a tree. And then in the tree rings, you can measure the amount of carbon 14 relative to carbon 12 in all the tree rings.

• 20:18Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 20:19Speaker 03

  And if you measure that, you can then say something about how solar activity has changed back in time. So it's something you have to take into account also when you're doing archaeological studies. You have to take into account the solar activity has been changing. Otherwise, you will get completely different ages.

• 20:40Danny Jones?

  I've seen models of the climate, the Earth's climate, going back like, I mean, we've pulled them up on this podcast, going back like 50 million years. How do they, how do they accurately figure out what the climate was 50 million years ago?

• 20:54Speaker 03

  There are indirect methods. And one, what one is to use what we call oxygen 18 is again isotopes.

• 21:05Danny Jones?

  The cores, the ice cores and all that?

• 21:07Speaker 03

  Ice cores only go back 800,000 years.

• 21:10Danny Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 21:11Speaker 03

  And they're best, you know, 100,000 years back or a little more. But if you want to go even further back, one thing is that you can take some, I mean, it's interesting because you take some animals that lift some shells.

• 21:29Danny Jones?

  Fossils?

• 21:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, fossil shells. So in the shell of the fossil, you measure how much oxygen 18 there is relative to oxygen 16. And that says something, it says something about how hot the water was when the shell was formed. So you can go in in different layers of the, of the Earth and find these fossils and measure. And that gives you an proxy of the temperature as you go back. And I have things I can show you.

• 22:01Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow. That's amazing.

• 22:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:04Danny Jones?

  I've seen, I've been, I've seen different things like, I've had geologists show me different like layers of the sediment where there's like this black matte layer that correlates to like, what was it, 12,500 years ago, whatever, during this younger dry.

• 22:18Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. Yes, yes.

• 22:20Danny Jones?

  And lots of people believe that or speculate that there was, there could have been like this crazy asteroid impact or comet impacts throughout the Earth that when we passed through a specific cycle or a specific, when the Earth passed through a specific zone of the universe or whatever, there was like high asteroid or comet activity that could have been responsible for that, like a mass extinction event or something.

• 22:40Speaker 03

  Yes. That's, I heard that too.

• 22:45Danny Jones?

  And then like, you know, allegedly like everything was flash frozen and then, or no, everything was like, got really hot. And then there was like a flash freezing event where like the sky blacked out and everything got super cold.

• 22:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. It makes a big change.

• 23:00Danny Jones?

  What do you make of that theory?

• 23:02Speaker 03

  I think it's interesting. And you try to find the evidence in the ground, so that's fine.

• 23:08Danny Jones?

  So what's next? As far as your discovery and the process of you making this discovery and presenting it to the public, you're now showing that, you're now showing people that, and you've got papers that prove that this specific activity of cosmic rays correlates to climate going back to at least 1850 or 1950.

• 23:32Speaker 03

  It correlates, yes. And the, the, the big problem, I mean, these are correlations. So, so that's what, what is, was the start of the whole thing. So you have to, I mean, because there's a correlation, and this was something that people were telling me all the time, that just because you have a correlation, that might not be causation. So the idea had been to try to figure out how to, you know, prove or investigate what the mechanism could be. Because you have to, you know, go further into the problem.

• 24:12Speaker 03

  And very early, I realized that we had to do some experimental work. And around 2004 and maybe even earlier, I built a laboratory where we could make these type of experiments. If you look at, I think it's slide, it's a 16. Can you see that? You can see here, these are all the places that we have been doing experiments.

• 24:45Danny Jones?

  CERN, the DTU National, oh, this is the Danish National Space Institute?

• 24:49Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 24:50Danny Jones?

  And at the asteroid accelerator? I haven't heard of that one.

• 24:55Speaker 03

  No, it's in Oerhuss, it's in Denmark.

• 24:57Danny Jones?

  Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah.

• 25:00Speaker 03

  And then you have CERN in Geneva.

• 25:02Danny Jones?

  CERN, yeah.

• 25:03Speaker 03

  And then at some point, we went 1.1 kilometer underground in a mine because we wanted to avoid cosmic rays. And you have to go that far down in order to get the cosmic ray intensity down by more than a million.

• 25:21Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 25:22Speaker 03

  Yes. So they're, they're, they're very, very penetrating. I mean, as we sit here.

• 25:27Danny Jones?

  How deep again?

• 25:28Speaker 03

  1.1 kilometer.

• 25:30Danny Jones?

  Wow. As we sit here, we're getting pelted?

• 25:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, pelted. And they go right through us and there's nothing, you know, spectacular as such, because this is happening ever since, you know, the last three to four billion years for all life. So it's part of our environment.

• 25:50Danny Jones?

  Okay. So what was going on at CERN?

• 25:54Speaker 03

  At CERN, we did some pilot experiments. There was a project called the Cloud Project that was built at some point. I was part of the Cloud Project in the early, early stages. But then I switched to our own, we did experiments where we actually showed that, yes, there is a microphysical mechanism. If we increase the ionization in a large chamber, we can see that we are building small aerosols. So we can measure that and we could sort of document it. I think if you go to.

• 26:36Danny Jones?

  So that's the reason for going so far underground is to create your own, to spray your own cosmic rays at your experiment, you have to eliminate all the cosmic rays coming out?

• 26:45Speaker 03

  That was the one in Baalbees.

• 26:46Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 26:47Speaker 03

  But the one in the DTU, the National Space Institute, there we have some gamma sources outside the chamber. And then we have some, you know, we call them, we have some lead, you know, walls that we can move. And then we can increase the ionization in the chamber and we can turn it down. If you go to the next slide, I think there you can see one example of such an experiment. You have a cosmic rays, or this is actually ionization that increases along the bottom axis. And then you can see as we increase the ionization, we actually produce more of these particles.

• 27:32Speaker 03

  So it's just an indication that there is a microphysical mechanism that links the two.

• 27:44Danny Jones?

  So Earth's climate goes up and down constantly throughout history.

• 27:48Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 27:49Danny Jones?

  And we've seen this just from the just from the graph that we've already seen before that just show the climate. I mean, we have like the medieval warm period. We have, it seems like right now, just based in the last couple million years that we've tracked, that right now, we're actually, it's cooler than it's been on average over millions of years, over the last at least five million years, right?

• 28:11Speaker 03

  Yes, it is much cooler. If you go back 50 million years, I mean, Earth might have been 10 degrees warmer than now. So you had, you know, palm trees in Antarctica at that time and and baobab trees and so on. I mean, so it really is something that here we go three million years back. So but there you can see there's been a steady cooling over the last few million years.

• 28:46Danny Jones?

  Yeah. So this blue one is, what is the blue one?

• 28:51Speaker 04

  More ice.

• 28:52Danny Jones?

  More ice.

• 28:53Speaker 04

  More colder. When it goes down, there's more.

• 28:55Danny Jones?

  Atmospheric CO. So is that, that's the question. Is there, is there a correlation between the temperature and the atmospheric CO2?

• 29:05Speaker 03

  In the Ice Ages, yes.

• 29:08Danny Jones?

  In the Ice Ages?

• 29:09Speaker 03

  Yes. I mean, you see a very clear correlation. The thing is that it's probably CO2 that is reacting to the temperature and not vice versa.

• 29:19Danny Jones?

  Oh.

• 29:20Speaker 03

  So you can actually see if you make, I mean, if you look very closely at the data, you can see that the temperature changes first and then the CO2 changes. This is something, I mean, it's commonly.

• 29:35Danny Jones?

  So when the Ice Ages was very low CO2?

• 29:38Speaker 03

  Yes. And, yes, it was so low that, I mean, it was a problem for plants at that time. That's also why instead of C3 plants, you had, you developed the C4 plants. We can, you know, they are much better at taking up CO2 than ordinary plants. If you go too low with CO2, I mean, all life dies.

• 30:04Danny Jones?

  Interesting. Right. Yeah, no, I knew that. But so that you're saying, what you're saying, which is counterintuitive to mainstream knowledge is that, or mainstream, whatever the narrative is, is that the CO2 reacts to the climate. So if it's a really hot climate, the CO2 will go up?

• 30:21Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 30:22Danny Jones?

  Got it. So how, so why do people say it's the opposite?

• 30:26Speaker 03

  It's because here, the, I mean, in the modern period, we are burning fossil fuels. So we are putting in more CO2 and CO2 is a greenhouse gas. So you, I mean, so by putting in more artificially, we can of course raise the temperature a little bit because of that.

• 30:45Danny Jones?

  Oh, okay. Okay. So, so you're saying that the manmade carbon dioxide that does go into the atmosphere every day, that does have a little bit of an effect on the overall temperature, but it pales in comparison to what these cosmic rays forming clouds can do?

• 31:03Speaker 03

  Yeah. And the longer time scales, I mean, as I can show, there's remarkable correlations on the long time scales. Yes. But also, if you look at, I mean, you talked about the Little Ice Age.

• 31:17Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 31:19Speaker 03

  That is the period where you had very few sunspots, so very little solar activity. So therefore, there was much more cosmic rays coming in during the Little Ice Age. And that is a beautiful correlation.

• 31:32Danny Jones?

  So, so that's an interesting thing that you said there. That's kind of hard to, it's kind of counterintuitive. It doesn't really, until you really understand it, right? You're saying that the, the low, the low amount of solar activity equals more cosmic radiation?

• 31:49Speaker 03

  Exactly. Because the sun forgets to throw away the cosmic rays, right? So when that is, when the sun is, you know, at low activity, the cosmic rays don't get so much resistance in going in.

• 32:02Danny Jones?

  And more solar wind, more sun activity, the least amount of cosmic rays.

• 32:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, and warmer, warmer climate.

• 32:08Danny Jones?

  And warmer climate.

• 32:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:10Danny Jones?

  The more cosmic rays we get, the more clouds we get and the cooler the climate.

• 32:14Speaker 03

  Yes. And it's also interesting. I mean, when you had the Little Ice Age, you had,

• 32:21Speaker 03

  I mean, when you had bad weather and so on, you, at that time, they believed it was because of witchcraft. So, and it's, it's amazing because so many women were burned at the stake because of, if you had a bad storm, they had to find the culprit and that was, you know, witchcraft. So at that time, I mean, many thousands of women and men also were burned at the stakes because of bad weather. I mean, there are some storms. There's a famous thing with the Danish.

• 33:01Danny Jones?

  Listen a little closer to you.

• 33:02Speaker 03

  Yeah. There was a Danish princess that was going to be married to an English king and she were trying to sail from Denmark to England and they were hit by a bad storm. And because of that, the king thought that it was witchcraft. So they actually executed a large number of people because of that storm.

• 33:26Danny Jones?

  Jesus. Yeah. The, the things that human beings have done in response to weather or to try to make the weather change going back is just, you know, I mean, the Mayans would sacrifice people to appease the, the rain gods, you know, for crops and stuff like that. Starting a business can be a big deal. And what really shocked me was how simple Shopify made the whole process. We use Shopify for our merch store and we were able to recently revamp all of our products. And from day one, it felt like the tools were simple and easy. Instead of feeling like I was learning a new profession, the design part was way easier than I expected. Shopify's templates and AI tools helped us get the storefront looking clean, professional and real without needing to touch any code. Then once people started

• 34:07Danny Jones?

  buying, Shopify's checkout made a huge difference. Customers move through it really fast and returning buyers can check out in a single click. And that's when you hear that little because the process just works. And if you ever hit a wall, Shopify has a sidekick that's built in. It's their AI assistant and it helps you troubleshoot, build and keep moving without wasting hours stuck on one problem. All you need is the idea and Shopify handles the rest. Start your free trial at Shopify.com/DannyJones today. Again, you can start your free trial at Shopify.com/DannyJones. It's spelled S-H-O-P-I-F-Y.com/DannyJones. So you say, you say that the magnetic field of the sun has more than doubled in the last

• 34:52Danny Jones?

  100 years. Is that right?

• 34:55Speaker 03

  There has been an increase in solar activity over the last 100 years. Yes. I can't remember. There was a paper at some point where they said that the sun's magnetic field had more than doubled over the last 100 years.

• 35:09Danny Jones?

  Do we know why?

• 35:11Speaker 03

  No, but I mean, it has to do with solar activity and solar activity is not something that is well understood. So for instance, when we say that there might be a solar minimum, that is a very low solar activity in the future, it's very uncertain because we cannot predict these things very good. But we know that there has been a large number of, of what we call minima in solar activity, I mean, six or seven times during the last 10,000 years. And each time you have a very cold climate. I mean, it's, I can, I can show

• 35:52Speaker 03

  you a very beautiful, if you look at the number 10 of mine.

• 36:02Speaker 03

  Let's see. What's that number 10? I'm sorry. It's number eight.

• 36:09Danny Jones?

  Number eight.

• 36:12Speaker 03

  Yeah. So what you see here is the last 12,000 years, if you look at the bottom figure, and the black curve is actually an expression of, of climate. And it's an indirect way of getting the climate. It has to do with icebergs that moves over the North Atlantic. And when they move over the North Atlantic, when they melt, they have a lot of small stones in the ice that then fall down on the bottom. And then you can drill up these ice cores and they could see how many small stones there are as a function of time. And that says something about how many icebergs has moved over the North Atlantic.

• 36:49Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 36:50Speaker 03

  And that's the black curve. And the blue curve is, changes in cosmic rays over that period.

• 37:00Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow. That's incredible.

• 37:05Danny Jones?

  So, and explain what you, what you are saying about when it comes to the Milky Way Galaxy and where our solar system is currently in the Milky Way Galaxy is constantly changing, right? And is it our solar system goes around the whole Milky Way Galaxy does one rotation in what like 100 and something 200 million years?

• 37:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, 230 million years.

• 37:30Danny Jones?

  230 million years, we make a full rotation around the Milky Way Galaxy?

• 37:34Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 37:34Danny Jones?

  That's crazy. And each rotation, we go in and out of the arms?

• 37:40Speaker 03

  Yes. And the arms are not material arms. It's actually a wave phenomena on top of all the stars that are moving around. And the reason that they look more bright is because that's where you, you make a disturbance and that's where you have the star formation. And that's also where the young stars that are large, large stars and they're much more bright. So that's why you see the spiral arms as bright arms. And we are moving in and out of these regions. And when you have more star formations, you're also, that's also the places where the large star explodes. And the large star that explodes are the

• 38:22Speaker 03

  ones that produced the cosmic rays. So when you are in a spiral arm, you get, you get much more cosmic rays. And the changes are, you know, maybe 300% change in the amount of cosmic rays.

• 38:36Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 38:37Speaker 03

  And then opposite, when you go between spiral arms, then.

• 38:45Danny Jones?

  Can you show, do you have like an image of this that we can see to give a better understanding of it?

• 38:49Speaker 03

  If you look at number 31?

• 38:52Danny Jones?

  31. So, so these, the bright spirals that we see, this is where you're saying a lot of the new stars are born and dying?

• 39:04Speaker 03

  That, that is where the new stars are born, a lot of stars is born and new stars are dying. I should, I should say that I worked closely with a guy called Neer Shaviv, he's a professor in Israel. And I worked with him for, for many years. He's the one that took up this idea. So he's the one that, he made this idea that when we go through spiral arms, it should be important for climate on Earth.

• 39:37Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 39:38Speaker 03

  And each time we are in a spiral arm, we, there seems to be a glaciation on the Earth. So it's a cold climate. And I can, I can show you.

• 39:55Danny Jones?

  When we're in the spiral arm, it becomes very cold?

• 39:58Speaker 03

  Yes. Because you have more cosmic rays. And more cosmic rays mean more clouds and clouds are cooling.

• 40:05Danny Jones?

  Right. Wow. Okay. So what is it about, why are more stars being born and also exploding in these spiral arms?

• 40:17Speaker 03

  It's simply because in, in the Milky Way Galaxy, it's like a disk. And in the disk, there's a lot of gas in the form of hydrogen. And hydrogen is the basic elements in stars. So what is happening is that you have sort of a disturbance along the spiral arms of the gas. And that makes the, the, it makes the gas sort of collapse. And it becomes more and more dense. And then at the end, it ignites the stars.

• 40:51Danny Jones?

  Whoa.

• 40:53Speaker 03

  And when you ignite the stars, you are actually producing a, a whole range of different sized stars. And some of them will be the heavy ones that, I mean, because they are heavy, they, you know, they burn very strongly. And they don't live very long. So we only live maybe between 3 and 15 million years. And that's a short time compared to the rotation. So the very, very bright stars, they are typically have a short lifetime in, close to the spiral arms. And that's why you get more cosmic rays in the spiral arms.

• 41:33Danny Jones?

  Wow. That's so hard to comprehend, just the scale you're talking about. Like, you're able to explain what's happening, you know, chemically within the entire Milky Way Galaxy. It's so crazy. Um, and so where is our, on this giant diagram of the Milky Way Galaxy, where is our solar system roughly?

• 41:56Speaker 03

  Well, you can see there's the sun location with the star in the bottom. So we are about one or two thirds outside. And we are actually moving around the galaxy, the center of the galaxy, within about these 240 million years. And then we go in and out of the spiral arms.

• 42:18Danny Jones?

  So are, let me ask you, this might be a dumb question. This not might be the right, you know, might not be the right person to ask, but are we moving away from the center of the Milky Way Galaxy consistently? Or is it staying about the same?

• 42:33Speaker 03

  It's staying about the same. I mean, it's not a perfect circle, of course.

• 42:38Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 42:39Speaker 03

  But because there are some disturbances. But it is more or less, for all practical, we can call it a circle around the galactic center.

• 42:50Danny Jones?

  Is it?

• 42:51Speaker 03

  And we, I mean, the sun is what we call a disk star. And, and all the disk stars are moving around the galaxy.

• 42:59Danny Jones?

  Why is it a disk star?

• 43:02Speaker 03

  It means that it, yeah, it's because when, when you have star formation, many times they are born in a cluster. So you have many stars that are bound together by gravity. I mean, do you, do you want to see this process?

• 43:19Danny Jones?

  Oh yeah, of course.

• 43:20Speaker 03

  Okay, then go to number 57. It's simulation.

• 43:26Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 43:27Speaker 03

  So you can see how.

• 43:28Danny Jones?

  Perfect. So you're talking about like binary star systems?

• 43:31Speaker 03

  So here you have a gas, gas cloud and it has been disturbed. And now it will start collapsing and you will see you will have star formation. And you will produce a large number of, of stars. You can see a lot of, so each, these small white is actually stars that are igniting.

• 43:54Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 43:59Speaker 03

  So.

• 44:01Danny Jones?

  What is that stuff that's like popping out of them?

• 44:04Speaker 03

  That is gas that is being accelerated and thrown out. And I, you would think in this, there's a supernova going off. You can see that they throw out some stuff.

• 44:13Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 44:17Speaker 03

  So at this time, these stars are all from the same cloud. So there, you can say all these stars are siblings in the sense that.

• 44:25Danny Jones?

  In the same cloud?

• 44:27Speaker 03

  Yes. And then what, what happens, I mean, at some point, I think with it ends, you can sort of zoom out a little bit and you can see that you have what we call an open cluster. This is an open cluster of, of clouds.

• 44:45Danny Jones?

  So what we're looking at right now?

• 44:47Speaker 03

  Is star formation.

• 44:49Danny Jones?

  This is star formation, right?

• 44:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:51Danny Jones?

  But like on the, on the, can you give me like a relative scale?

• 44:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's probably 150,000 years or something like that.

• 44:58Danny Jones?

  About, this is about 150,000. And, and how big are each of these stars that we're looking at compared to like our sun?

• 45:05Speaker 03

  There are probably, many of them are smaller and some of them are bigger. They, they form after, I mean, there's, it's always formed, there you had a supernova going off actually. But you see, it, it, it's like a, this is what we call an open stellar cluster. And the reason I'm showing that it's because I have been using open stellar clusters to go even further into this problem on the long time scales.

• 45:35Danny Jones?

  Super stellar clusters?

• 45:37Speaker 03

  Open stellar clusters. Open, open.

• 45:41Danny Jones?

  Open.

• 45:42Speaker 03

  Yeah. Because you remember, we, we started asking the question, why, why is a disk star?

• 45:48Danny Jones?

  Exactly. Yeah.

• 45:49Speaker 03

  So here you have stars which are part of a cluster. So what is happening is that they, they, they sort of move in between and there might be some disturbances and then the, the stars, they sort of fall off. So the gravity can no longer, no longer keep a star bound. And when it fall off, it becomes a disk star. So our solar, our sun probably also was born in this way.

• 46:19Danny Jones?

  And then it eventually just like drifts out?

• 46:21Speaker 03

  And it eventually drifts out.

• 46:23Danny Jones?

  So there could be no life in one of these clusters. It's too hot, too many, too many stars?

• 46:27Speaker 03

  Well, it's very young at this point, right? So it hasn't had time to, to evolve. But I mean, there probably will be planets and so on around some of these stars.

• 46:37Danny Jones?

  Inside this cluster?

• 46:38Speaker 03

  Yes, there will be, start the, the formation. I mean, now we know that nearly all stars have, have planets in formation.

• 46:47Danny Jones?

  Wow. That is bananas.

• 46:52Speaker 03

  So, if you go to number 34?

• 47:02Speaker 03

  What I'm showing you here is the number of, if you're in the middle there, in the middle of this circle, that's where the solar system is. And after these dots is an open stellar cluster. So these are open stellar clusters, that is a group of stars. And the color, it says something about how old the cluster is. And you can see most of them are about, you know, 100 million years.

• 47:33Danny Jones?

  So the dark, the dark purple at the bottom is how old?

• 47:38Speaker 03

  100 million years.

• 47:39Danny Jones?

  And what's the red?

• 47:40Speaker 03

  And red is 1 billion years.

• 47:42Danny Jones?

  1 billion.

• 47:43Speaker 03

  And you see there's very few of the old ones.

• 47:47Danny Jones?

  Not many old ones.

• 47:48Speaker 03

  No, and that's because they have evaporated. So all the stars have been falling off, so they no longer exist.

• 47:55Danny Jones?

  So they exploded?

• 47:57Speaker 03

  No, no, they, they, they fall off, so they're no longer a cluster. So it, it, it drops stars.

• 48:04Danny Jones?

  Hmm, okay.

• 48:05Speaker 03

  And each time you have fewer, fewer and fewer, and in the end, there's nothing left. So they're, they're all becoming disk stars.

• 48:13Danny Jones?

  Ah, okay, I see now.

• 48:16Speaker 03

  So, and in this plot here, there is information about star formation over the last, for instance, 500 million years. So if you move to the next slide, you will see a reconstruction of the number of supernovas over the last 500 million years.

• 48:41Danny Jones?

  This is, this is 500 million years right here?

• 48:44Speaker 03

  This is 500 million years. And you can see that the changes in supernovas or the supernova activity is almost a factor of three. So for 300 million years ago, there was a lot of cosmic rays or a lot of supernovas going off.

• 49:08Danny Jones?

  And we, and you're measuring this directly by the proxy of the cosmic?

• 49:13Speaker 03

  This is measured by these open stellar clusters that I use the information in them to say how many stars were born at a certain time. When I know how many stars have been born, I know what fraction have been large stars. And then I know how many will explode and produce cosmic rays. So it's an indirect way because we have no, no way of doing it.

• 49:38Danny Jones?

  Got it.

• 49:39Speaker 03

  But, I mean, it, it looks, you know, very.

• 49:43Danny Jones?

  So you can use basically Earth's climate history to reverse engineer the, this stuff right here?

• 49:52Speaker 03

  That's a good question, but what you have here is only astrophysics. There's nothing, yeah, well, the, the top bar, you can actually see when there's glaciers and when it's cold. So you can see over the last, I mean, in the first part, you have the first 30 million years, you have a glass glaciation.

• 50:12Danny Jones?

  Lots of supernovas.

• 50:13Speaker 03

  Lots of supernovas. And if you go 300 million years back, you can see there's glaciers, severe glaciers again. And there seems to be a very nice correlation with this figure as you go back in time.

• 50:29Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 50:30Speaker 03

  But let me take it even further, if you take the next slide. What you have here is only 200 million years. And what I've done here is I've used a proxy for temperatures going back in time. Remember, we talked about these shells, I think they're called brachyopods?

• 50:51Danny Jones?

  Fossils, like fossils?

• 50:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, these are fossils. And then you measure the amount of oxygen 18 relative to oxygen 16.

• 50:59Danny Jones?

  And you can figure out the water temperature, right?

• 51:01Speaker 03

  And that gets you the water temperature. And this is what you see with all these dots, each of these dots is a fossil.

• 51:07Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 51:08Speaker 03

  And you can see the red curve is the change in supernovas. And you can see there's a beautiful correlation between the two.

• 51:20Danny Jones?

  Oh, interesting.

• 51:24Speaker 03

  And as a, when there's many supernovas, you can see that it's actually quite cold on Earth. And when you go back, I don't know, 50 million years, it was much, much warmer.

• 51:42Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 51:44Speaker 03

  And also, it, it's, I think it's quite interesting because if you look at just the last 30 or 40 million years, you can see there's a sort of a minimum at around 30 million years. That minimum is also shown in the, the data for the, for the temperature. So there's, I mean, it's actually a quite beautiful correlation even on these time scales.

• 52:12Danny Jones?

  Have, have you noticed any sort of pattern in this activity? Like every, you know, 10 million, 20 million, 50 million years? Is there, I mean, obviously there must be like a, there must be some sort of a relative period of time in between each one of those arms in the Milky Way Galaxy, right?

• 52:31Speaker 03

  Yes. And this is, I mean, if you look at the, at the beginning, that's because we just passed the spiral arm. If you then go back and you see that there is a minimum around 140 million years ago, this is another spiral arm that we go through. So you can actually see the spiral arms in the data.

• 52:53Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 52:54Speaker 03

  And when we go through a spiral arm, it's actually colder. When we are in between the spiral arm, you can see.

• 53:00Danny Jones?

  Hot, hot like a desert.

• 53:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's really, really hot. So that's just.

• 53:06Danny Jones?

  And I'm sorry, can you show one more time where exactly we are in the spiral arm?

• 53:11Speaker 03

  We are, where you see is a zero.

• 53:15Danny Jones?

  Yep.

• 53:15Speaker 03

  So, so that's up top.

• 53:19Danny Jones?

  Okay, yep, on the top right is where.

• 53:22Speaker 03

  Top right, yes.

• 53:23Danny Jones?

  So we aren't, are we in a spiral, we're not in a spiral arm right now?

• 53:28Speaker 03

  We just moved through a spiral arm and we are experiencing over the last 30 million years, we have had a glaciation. A glaciation means that we have ice sheets on Earth. And Antarctica, it glaciated about 34 million years ago.

• 53:46Danny Jones?

  So that's when Antarctica was formed, about 30 million years ago?

• 53:49Speaker 03

  The ice sheets.

• 53:50Danny Jones?

  The ice sheets?

• 53:51Speaker 03

  Yes. So 40 million years ago, or 34 million years ago, that's when that, that happened. So the ice sheets, they sort of formed.

• 54:01Danny Jones?

  So when the dinosaurs were walking around, there were no ice sheets down there?

• 54:04Speaker 03

  When the dinosaurs walked around, they disappeared around 65 million years ago. And that was very warm, there was hardly any ice at all.

• 54:15Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 54:17Speaker 03

  But of course, I mean, the, the first dinosaurs came 250 million years ago. So they, they had a long period on Earth.

• 54:24Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 54:25Speaker 03

  But in the end, there was no, no ice.

• 54:27Danny Jones?

  So we're technically in a glaciation period right now and we're exiting it.

• 54:32Speaker 03

  We are in a glacial period, yes.

• 54:34Danny Jones?

  And we are about to get very warm. Not probably, I mean, we're, we're talking geological timeframes here, but.

• 54:41Speaker 03

  We will go in through, you know, in, in maybe 30 million years, I mean.

• 54:46Danny Jones?

  In about 30 million years, it's gonna get very hot.

• 54:49Speaker 03

  The weather forecast for 30 million.

• 54:52Danny Jones?

  And there, you, so how long do you think it will take before, like, the south and north poles are completely melted?

• 54:59Speaker 03

  That's a good question. I mean, it, it comes, I mean, you can see here, it's over some millions of years, I guess, that you have a change if you look at it.

• 55:14Danny Jones?

  Yeah, so.

• 55:15Speaker 03

  And, and also, I mean, when, when you are, if you look at the 50 million years, when you don't have any ice sheets, the, the, the sea level is of course much, much higher. So when you have, the continent are flooded, so the US was flooded. You know, parts of, of the US, there was no Florida. Florida was underwater.

• 55:37Danny Jones?

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• 56:22Danny Jones?

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• 57:04Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 57:05Danny Jones?

  And there, there was like some cliff sides near the Dead Sea and you guys were studying that. What, what exactly were you guys looking for there?

• 57:10Speaker 03

  It was just an illustration of past climate that you can see in these sediments and how it's changing. And I think there's someone who has studied it in more details and showing that there are some correlations with climate in the sediments.

• 57:29Danny Jones?

  Now, is there any specific correlation between supernova activity and like biological life on Earth?

• 57:38Speaker 03

  Yes, that's one big part of my work now that I've been working on.

• 57:45Danny Jones?

  And is that all tied back to climate?

• 57:48Speaker 03

  It ties back to climate because the temperature changes that you have here is maybe, you know, 10 degrees, I mean, global temperature. Remember, we are talking about maybe 1 degree with global warming. But 10 degrees, it's so big that it will have impact on, on climate.

• 58:08Danny Jones?

  10 degrees?

• 58:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, it, it's, I mean, these changes are just huge that we are talking about. And I can show you, I mean, I think it's completely.

• 58:21Speaker 03

  Fascinating with this. So if you go to thirty-seven. So. This is just to say that climate is quite important because at any time here on Earth, nutrition has been a limiting factor.

• 58:49Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 58:50Speaker 03

  So nutrition, that's phosphor, iron and nitrogen and so on. It's all things that life is needing. And there is this, if you have a certain bioproduction, that is, you have life. Then life would rather uptake carbon twelve than carbon thirteen. One percent of carbon is slightly heavier. It's a stabilizer tube. But carbon twelve. And this is important because it gives us a way of saying how much biomass there was on Earth at a certain time. So when you have sediments and you can have inorganic sediments that fall down on the

• 59:32Speaker 03

  bottom and that makes all these sediments that you see, we'll see them just in a second. Then you can imagine if you have a large biomass, that means that there's more carbon thirteen in the oceans than if you have a small biomass. So by measuring the ratio between carbon thirteen and carbon twelve, you can say something about how much biomass there was on Earth at a certain time. If you go to the next slide.

• 1:00:04Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:00:05Speaker 03

  You can. Is there a next one? Yeah, one more time. Yeah. So this is the Grand Canyon. So the idea, what you see here is all these layers are past times where you had an ocean bottom.

• 1:00:24Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow, okay.

• 1:00:26Speaker 03

  And then you can, I mean, geologist has then gone and measured this carbon thirteen relative to carbon twelve. And that estimate the fraction of organic matter that is buried in sediments. So this measure with the isotopes, it unlocks how much organic material there is and that is how much life there was in the oceans at a certain time.

• 1:00:57Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:00:59Speaker 03

  So if you go to the next slide and. So what you have here is my reconstruction of cosmic rays over the last five hundred million years. And you can see there's some different curves and these are different databases that I have used, but they all show more or less the same thing.

• 1:01:21Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:01:21Speaker 03

  And that is the change in cosmic rays over this time. So what you see here has nothing to do with the Earth. It is astrophysics, pure astrophysics.

• 1:01:32Danny Jones?

  Pure astrophysics.

• 1:01:33Speaker 03

  So if you press the bottom, you will see the change in. This is the fraction of organic matter in sediments over that period of time. And you see a remarkable correlation.

• 1:01:47Danny Jones?

  Whoa. Holy crap. That is wild.

• 1:01:53Speaker 03

  So.

• 1:01:54Danny Jones?

  So the more of this astrophysics activity that we get, the more organic matter we get.

• 1:02:01Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:02:02Danny Jones?

  That's correct?

• 1:02:02Speaker 03

  Yes. I mean, it's a fraction of organic matter in sediments. And the idea is if you press one more time, I think that something will come up for explanation there. So if you have a high cosmic ray flux, you have a larger bioproductivity and therefore also a larger fraction of organic barrel of into sediments.

• 1:02:23Danny Jones?

  So the hotter it is, the more organic matter you get.

• 1:02:26Speaker 03

  The colder it is.

• 1:02:27Danny Jones?

  The colder it, so the higher cosmic rays. Okay, yeah, I keep getting, I'm thinking when the word ray like breaks my brain, I think sun rays.

• 1:02:36Speaker 03

  Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it is, you know, the sign thing is problematic, but it seems as if nature can figure it out.

• 1:02:48Danny Jones?

  So the lower the temperature, the more organic matter.

• 1:02:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, and why is that? It's because in my, that when it's cold on Earth, you have a larger temperature gradient between the equator and the poles. There's a larger temperature difference.

• 1:03:08Danny Jones?

  Between the, between the equator and the poles.

• 1:03:10Speaker 03

  And that means that you have stronger winds. So if you have stronger winds, you have much better circulation in the oceans of nutrients. So then you get delivered nutrients to the life. And that's why when you have a colder climate, you can get more. So it helps delivering the nutrients.

• 1:03:32Danny Jones?

  So even though it would be, it would probably be less organic matter on, on land though, right? Because it's very cold and there's not much, not much, there's no vegetation.

• 1:03:43Speaker 03

  It's something I've been working on. It's not published, but it seems as if it's completely opposite on land.

• 1:03:50Danny Jones?

  Wow. So it would be the, so if it's, if it's a very warm climate and it's lush on land and fertile and lots of life, that would mean, would be the opposite under the oceans?

• 1:04:04Speaker 03

  Yes, because then you have a smaller temperature difference between the equator and the poles. There's not much mixing in the oceans. It gets much more layered, so you don't get the nutrients circulated.

• 1:04:16Danny Jones?

  That is wild.

• 1:04:21Speaker 03

  So. This, so this I, I think this published in two thousand and twenty-one.

• 1:04:32Danny Jones?

  So those, those layers that you're measuring the difference between carbon twelve and carbon thirteen, that's specifically for the organic material, the organic mass that's under the oceans.

• 1:04:44Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:04:45Danny Jones?

  Now, how do we measure what's above the oceans?

• 1:04:49Speaker 03

  We can't really measure it that the same way.

• 1:04:51Danny Jones?

  No.

• 1:04:52Speaker 03

  So that's, that's a problem. So what I've been doing is trying to model it based on, you know, photosynthesis and you have how much energy that goes in, you have to see how much CO2 there was in the atmosphere, how much oxygen there was in the atmosphere and how much water was available. And you put all these things together and you can try to at least simulate the organic amount on land. But I don't have any blue graphs of that here.

• 1:05:29Danny Jones?

  So this is like completely blowing my mind. Why isn't this more popular and why aren't there more people talking about? This is the first time I've heard anything like this.

• 1:05:38Speaker 03

  Oh, but I'm not even finished.

• 1:05:40Danny Jones?

  What else should we go through?

• 1:05:43Speaker 03

  But yeah, you're, you're, yeah. When I give talk to general public, they are very happy about it. That I get. So people who don't have an interest in global warming are happy about it. But you see, if this.

• 1:06:00Danny Jones?

  People don't have a financial interest in global warming.

• 1:06:03Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 1:06:04Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:06:06Speaker 03

  I mean, the whole politics about global warming has been, I mean.

• 1:06:11Danny Jones?

  Were you aware of, of how ideological and political the global warming and the climate narrative was before you started looking into this?

• 1:06:20Speaker 03

  I had no idea. It came as a big surprise for me. I mean, I had simply. And it changed my, my life completely. So in some quarters, I'm a, you know, heretic because I say that, you know, that there are other things that are might be important. So if you say that things like cosmic rays and solar activity is important for climate, it's not welcome. I mean, if you look at the IPCC and you look at the report, you can see that the amount

• 1:06:59Speaker 03

  of, I mean, what they attribute to, to solar influence is more or less zero.

• 1:07:07Danny Jones?

  Zero.

• 1:07:08Speaker 03

  Zero.

• 1:07:09Danny Jones?

  Now, for people that aren't aware, what is the IPCC?

• 1:07:12Speaker 03

  It's the International Panel on Climate. They're one that, you know, advise government about climate change and how, you know, dangerous anthropogenic global warming is.

• 1:07:28Danny Jones?

  Now, didn't they say that water vapor has a bigger impact than CO2? The IPCC?

• 1:07:35Speaker 03

  Water vapor is of course the most important greenhouse gas. It's the one that raises the temperature, you know, almost thirty degrees on the Earth. But it's not, it's not seen as a greenhouse gas, you know, because they're mainly looking at, I mean, it is greenhouse gas, but they don't look mainly at anthropogenic things. I mean, I, I show you the IPCC report. If you look at number three.

• 1:08:11Speaker 03

  If we can, yeah. So here you see the different.

• 1:08:15Danny Jones?

  This is the latest estimate from the IPCC.

• 1:08:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, something like that. But you can see that the total effect of anthropogenic is about between two and three watts per square meter.

• 1:08:29Danny Jones?

  Which one is anthropogenic?

• 1:08:31Speaker 03

  It's the one.

• 1:08:33Danny Jones?

  One from the bottom?

• 1:08:34Speaker 03

  Yes, the one from the bottom, the red one.

• 1:08:37Danny Jones?

  Yep.

• 1:08:38Speaker 03

  And then you can see there is a little one where it's solar.

• 1:08:44Danny Jones?

  At the very bottom. It's like zero. Solar, they're saying solar has zero.

• 1:08:50Speaker 03

  It's zero since 1750 until present. And that, the reason they're saying that is of course, they're saying that solar irradiance is not changing. They're not really taking into account some things, things like cosmic rays. The cosmic rays, if you put it in, I would say, I believe it will be around 1.5 watt per square meter. So it will be, you know, comparable to the whole anthropogenic thing. And that's why.

• 1:09:22Danny Jones?

  So you think that, so you're saying you, you believe that cosmic rays have the same effect as the total anthropogenic effect on climate? It's about equal?

• 1:09:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, maybe slightly smaller, but I mean, 1.5 watts is on that order. I should say that, I mean, we have done a lot of work. What we need to do, and what I was hoping to do was to put all these mechanisms that we have now discovered and we now know how it works and how to put it into a global model where we both have, you know, cosmic rays and greenhouse gases. And then run a model just like these models that they use in the IPCC to see how important is this change in clouds. Because that, that's a natural thing to do.

• 1:10:15Speaker 03

  My, my problem has been, it's been impossible to get funding for doing this work. And that's, you know, my general problem. It's been very, very difficult to finance.

• 1:10:26Danny Jones?

  Now, who funds all this stuff?

• 1:10:28Speaker 03

  Well, this is a government funded.

• 1:10:30Danny Jones?

  Government funded. And the people that are a part of this IPCC?

• 1:10:34Speaker 03

  They, they, I mean, the funding is, I mean, that's the thing. If you go before the IPCC was formed, there was very, very few people doing climate science. But after you put the idea up that it was a big problem and we are, you know, it might be a disaster in the future and so on, a lot of money has gone into it. I mean, I think it's, to the research, it's several billions in the US a year.

• 1:11:04Danny Jones?

  Several billions?

• 1:11:06Speaker 03

  I think it billions, yeah. It's a lot.

• 1:11:10Danny Jones?

  And where does that money come from?

• 1:11:12Speaker 03

  From you.

• 1:11:13Danny Jones?

  It's from the taxpayer, it's government funded?

• 1:11:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's got the government, I think, yeah.

• 1:11:18Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:11:19Speaker 03

  I mean, it's something you have to check, of course, but I remember seeing a, a report where those numbers were mentioned.

• 1:11:27Danny Jones?

  So aerosols goes backwards?

• 1:11:30Speaker 03

  Yes, that's, that's the thing is that if you put in more aerosols, then you produce more clouds and then you cool the earth.

• 1:11:38Danny Jones?

  And then you cool the earth. So they're, they're conceding that?

• 1:11:41Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:11:42Danny Jones?

  They're conceding that aerosols and clouds do cool the earth. Now, what is, what, what did you make of this proposal? I think it was Bill Gates proposed on, on putting reflective particles in the atmosphere or something to reflect the sunlight? Are you aware of that?

• 1:11:57Speaker 03

  That's called geoengineering.

• 1:12:00Danny Jones?

  Geoengineering.

• 1:12:01Speaker 03

  Yes. I'm not sure it will work, but I don't, I don't think it's necessary to do. The good thing is that when you stop putting particles in, the effect stops very fast.

• 1:12:15Danny Jones?

  When you stop putting the particles in? And also those particles would fall to the ground eventually, you would think, and that would create lots of pollution? It would rain out, right? And how would that affect like the natural estuaries and like the, the sea life and something?

• 1:12:28Speaker 03

  Nobody knows. I mean, it's very difficult to say, but I think it was very difficult to sort of seed the whole earth. I mean, I think the idea was to have some ships in, maybe in the Pacific pumping up particles. I mean, you, you, you saw these ship checks.

• 1:12:50Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:51Speaker 03

  So it's a similar idea.

• 1:12:52Danny Jones?

  Okay. Yeah, and I actually believe Bill Gates has like rescinded that. He, he has been traditionally like one of the biggest proponents of this whole climate warming narrative. And there was something that came out recently, Steve, maybe you can find it, where he's gone back on that.

• 1:13:07Speaker 03

  He's gone back on it, yes. But it's also because they need a lot of energy for AI now, so. And you need, I mean.

• 1:13:18Danny Jones?

  So he's hopped to a different.

• 1:13:19Speaker 03

  And you cannot get it from solar and wind.

• 1:13:22Danny Jones?

  Right, right. No, they need way too much energy to power that. Solar and wind would.

• 1:13:28Speaker 03

  Do you want to see one more thing? I have a few more things on the long time scale, which I think is a completely fascinating.

• 1:13:36Danny Jones?

  Yes, please.

• 1:13:37Speaker 03

  So if you take 41. So what you have here is, I mean, we just look at the, the last 500 million years, which is the very, very short part of the right of this figure. But what you see here is a reconstruction of the star formation going back three and a half billion years.

• 1:14:04Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:14:06Speaker 03

  And this is, it's showing that, for instance, for, you know, around two billion years ago or something like that, you had a burst of star formation. Then you had a billion years where it was very quiet in the, in the galaxy, in our Milky Way. And then you had a burst again around one, you know, one billion years ago. And then you get to the 500 million years where I just showed you how it looked. Now, the thing is that you have had photosynthesis during the last three and a half billion years on earth through algae and so on.

• 1:14:50Speaker 03

  So you can actually look at this exact same thing, the amount of organic material buried in sediments. And this is the geology. So if you take the next, Steve, there, that is the change in, of the fraction of organic matter in sediments.

• 1:15:12Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:15:13Speaker 03

  And you see the correlation?

• 1:15:15Danny Jones?

  With the star formation?

• 1:15:17Speaker 03

  Yes, with the star formation on top. So you see a beautiful correlation. Now, there is one thing I want to mention about.

• 1:15:27Danny Jones?

  So star formation means more cosmic rays?

• 1:15:30Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 1:15:31Danny Jones?

  Which means colder temperatures?

• 1:15:32Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:15:33Danny Jones?

  And which also is, according to this graph, means more organic sediment layers?

• 1:15:38Speaker 03

  Yes, more, more, more, yes, organic sediment layer, you're right. If you press the bottom, that.

• 1:15:45Danny Jones?

  Are we talking in the ocean or on land?

• 1:15:47Speaker 03

  This is the ocean.

• 1:15:47Danny Jones?

  Ocean, right, right, right.

• 1:15:49Speaker 03

  So it's oceans again. Now, the thing is that if you look at photosynthesis, everybody knows that when you, you combine water and CO2 and sunlight, then you get a sugar, glucose. And that's part of what goes into the organic part and that goes into life. And then you produce oxygen at the same time. But if you now take the organic material and you just leave it on the surface of the earth, the, the reaction will go back again, meaning that the oxygen, there will not be produced any oxygen.

• 1:16:29Speaker 03

  So in order to produce oxygen in the earth, you have to bury the organic material. So when you bury the organic material, then you are left with the oxygen. So the curve over there, the bottom curve, it is actually also the oxygen production rate over that period of time.

• 1:16:53Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:16:54Speaker 03

  So it means that the.

• 1:16:59Speaker 03

  I mean, you can see there's a period around 2 billion years ago where there was a lot of oxygen produced. It doesn't mean that necessarily that the oxygen went into the atmosphere, because at that time you had a lot of iron in the oceans and the oxygen was stuck to the irons and became this red sediment that you have called iron bands. But if you go to around, you know, 300 million years, we had actually maybe closer to 30% oxygen, whereas today we

• 1:17:40Speaker 03

  have about 21% oxygen, percent oxygen in the atmosphere.

• 1:17:47Speaker 03

  And the other thing, why it's so important for life is that oxygen is really needed if you want to have complex life, because that's what transports energy around in the inside complex life.

• 1:18:04Danny Jones?

  All right, Steve found the Gates from Axios. Gates stressed the difference between supporting research and advocating development.

• 1:18:12Speaker 03

  Deployment.

• 1:18:13Danny Jones?

  Deployment, what do you?

• 1:18:15Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 1:18:15Speaker 04

  This is about

• 1:18:20Danny Jones?

  where he draws the line on dimming the sun. Bill Gates says he would support deploying artificial cooling technologies to lower global temperatures, but only if the planet hits a so-called climate tipping point. Yeah, but he recently went, he went back on this, Steve. There's, you can find another article that was published probably recently in the last few months where it's basically saying that Bill Gates abandons his climate change push or whatever. Yeah, the problem with things like this is people, they like to latch on to these hot topics and find ways to benefit from them, find ways to capitalize on things like this by turning them into an emergency, you know, and find, because it benefits them

• 1:19:05Danny Jones?

  in some specific financial way. That's the problem with all these things, right?

• 1:19:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:19:09Danny Jones?

  Whether it be climate, whether it be medicine, pharmaceutical stuff, or, you know, geopolitics, you name it, people can manufacture these emergencies, get people to panic so they can justify spending money or making money somehow.

• 1:19:25Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:19:26Danny Jones?

  Yeah, as you've learned the hard way.

• 1:19:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's true.

• 1:19:31Danny Jones?

  Has there been any legitimate pushback against this from people? Like, has anyone ever like sat down with you and had a reasonable conversation with you and like explained to you why they don't take this stuff, your research, seriously?

• 1:19:47Speaker 03

  I, yeah, I would say, I mean, there has been some reasonable persons, but there's never been anyone to, there's never been anyone saying that it's all wrong.

• 1:20:01Speaker 03

  The thing is that when we, when we found these things experimentally, I think we published it around 2007, then from 2009 and onward, people tried to put it into global models. So they tried to mimic this idea that cosmic rays produced some extra aerosols, these small, very small particles. And then the idea was to see if they could then grow to become cloud condensation nuclei. And if they can do that, they could affect clouds.

• 1:20:39Speaker 03

  So they tried to put this into these models and it all, they all, I think, six or seven groups, they all got the result that they didn't grow to cloud condensation nuclei. They got lost before. And from that, that has really been the main critique that these small particles do not survive to cloud condensation nuclei. And that sounds like a really, you know, serious problem if that was true. But in 2017, after four years of

• 1:21:21Speaker 03

  experimental work, because I, I didn't believe that it was true, that, that there was this problem. One of the reasons is that we can do some observations and I can show you observations showing that these particles are actually growing to become cloud condensation nuclei in the real atmosphere. So everything works out there. It's only in the models it didn't work. But the question of course, why? And we spent almost four years and what we found out in the end was that the cosmic rays are not just producing small aerosols, they are

• 1:22:04Speaker 03

  also assisting the growth of aerosols so they can accelerate the growth, so they grow faster.

• 1:22:12Speaker 03

  And when they grow faster, this chance of being lost is smaller. And we have tried to put that into a global model of the same kind as other people have been using. And when we do that, we start getting things are very close to the observations. So the reason that all these groups did not find this effect is simply because they didn't have the right physics in the models.

• 1:22:38Danny Jones?

  Oh, interesting.

• 1:22:40Speaker 03

  So, yeah, I mean, I, I can show you so many things.

• 1:22:49Speaker 03

  If I, let's, let's look at, what number is that? Number 20?

• 1:22:57Speaker 03

  If that should come up.

• 1:23:00Danny Jones?

  Coronal mass ejections.

• 1:23:02Speaker 03

  Yes, coronal mass. So you have the sun in the middle and what you see is solar wind that all of a sudden you have what called a coronal mass ejection. It's

• 1:23:12Danny Jones?

  Like a burp, the sun burps.

• 1:23:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, you could say that. And it burps out a magnetic plasma. So you have magnetic field lines that are sort of open up. And if that hits the earth, it screens against cosmic rays. If you press one more time, you will see one event. So

• 1:23:32Danny Jones?

  It blasts cosmic rays out?

• 1:23:34Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:23:35Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:23:35Speaker 03

  So this is what you see here. These are days of the year and you can see that you have this effect and the cosmic rays, these are measured on earth. And you see there's a big drop all of a sudden in the cosmic rays.

• 1:23:50Danny Jones?

  Yep.

• 1:23:50Speaker 03

  And it lasts about a week. And then the plasma sort of dilutes and move out through the, the planets and the cosmic rays are getting back. But this is what I called a natural experiment for testing this, this idea. So when we have these events, I can then look at satellite observations of earth clouds and see if anything happens.

• 1:24:15Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:24:16Speaker 03

  So this is what I've done. So we look at the next slide.

• 1:24:21Speaker 03

  There. So I have 15 days. I mean, if you take the first one where it says aerosols, then you have 15 days before the minimum in cosmic rays. This is this red dotted line.

• 1:24:36Danny Jones?

  Yep.

• 1:24:38Speaker 03

  And then you have 20 days after.

• 1:24:40Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:24:42Speaker 03

  And the black curve is the change in aerosols. And you see there's a dip in the aerosols where the maximum around five days later.

• 1:24:50Danny Jones?

  Right, five days later you see the dip.

• 1:24:52Speaker 03

  Yeah. And why is it five days? It's because that's the time it takes for the aerosols to grow, to become cloud condensation nuclei. So it takes a little time for the small aerosols to grow and become cloud condensation nuclei. It takes about five days.

• 1:25:06Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:25:07Speaker 03

  So, and then you have three data sets, three independent data sets which measure cloudiness or clouds. And you can see that there's a minimum in all of them around five, five to 10 days after or five days.

• 1:25:25Danny Jones?

  That's fascinating. So when we have these big CME events, these cosmic sun burps or whatever, we see a super big drop globally with cloud coverage?

• 1:25:38Speaker 03

  Yeah. When you say super big, it's only about 2%.

• 1:25:42Danny Jones?

  Oh, only 2%? Okay.

• 1:25:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, but 2% is actually similar to what you would get over a solar cycle. And it is on the order of, you know, this one and a half watt per square meter. Remember, we talked about the IPCC and it was about two and a half watt, which we see anthropogenic. So we had one and a half watt changes here.

• 1:26:06Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:26:07Speaker 03

  And, I mean, we even get, locally, we can get up to four watts changes in

• 1:26:16Danny Jones?

  In specific locations?

• 1:26:17Speaker 03

  Yes. In the Southern Ocean, because that's where you have very clean. I mean, this effect is best over the oceans. And that's because you have very few aerosols there. So if you put a few extra aerosols in, it makes a change when, when, it makes a change in the number of cloud droplets. If you go over land, you have so many aerosols that even though you are producing clouds, it's only a fraction of them that are being activated to become cloud droplets. So if you put some more in, it doesn't really change things.

• 1:26:57Danny Jones?

  I see. What is, what is the, there's some sort of like an anomaly that's over South America, like a geomagnetic anomaly?

• 1:27:05Speaker 03

  Yes, that's because the earth's dipole moment of the magnetic field, it's sort of shifted a little bit. So it's slightly weaker over the South Atlantic. So you have more cosmic rays coming in there and it's, it's actually been a problem for some certain, you know, low orbiting satellites because they get much more cosmic rays.

• 1:27:28Danny Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 1:27:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, so.

• 1:27:30Danny Jones?

  How does the, how do the cosmic rays affect the satellites there?

• 1:27:34Speaker 03

  It can go in and affect the electronics.

• 1:27:38Danny Jones?

  Oh, negatively, even though it doesn't mess with human beings, it messes with electronic stuff?

• 1:27:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:27:44Danny Jones?

  Wow. So in that area of South America where we have that like hole in the magnetosphere, essentially what it is, because of that, it's

• 1:27:54Speaker 03

  It's just weaker.

• 1:27:55Danny Jones?

  It's weaker.

• 1:27:56Speaker 03

  It's just weaker. It means that more cosmic rays can come in. The Earth's magnetic field

• 1:28:01Danny Jones?

  You mean there's a lot more clouds there?

• 1:28:03Speaker 03

  We look for it. It's very difficult to, I mean, because here you have globally 2%.

• 1:28:10Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:28:11Speaker 03

  It's very difficult to see.

• 1:28:13Danny Jones?

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• 1:29:29Speaker 03

  Yes. The poles of the magnetic poles, yes.

• 1:29:33Danny Jones?

  The magnetic poles are constant, are moving

• 1:29:35Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:29:35Danny Jones?

  Every year by quite a bit, right?

• 1:29:37Speaker 03

  Sometimes quite a bit, yes. And especially if you are on the verge of a, what you call a switch, where you switch the polar.

• 1:29:49Danny Jones?

  Like a full flip?

• 1:29:50Speaker 03

  Yes, you can have a full flip. That you have typically, I said it last time, was about 700,000 years ago.

• 1:29:56Danny Jones?

  700,000 years ago.

• 1:29:58Speaker 03

  Then there was a near-flip, I think 39,000 years ago. You can see that also.

• 1:30:05Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:30:06Speaker 03

  And you can see it, remember, the cosmic rays comes in, and they produce isotopes. The isotopes then might fall down on snowflakes and on the ice. And then you can measure and you can see that at a certain time, there was much more cosmic rays coming in, and that's because the Earth's magnetic field was all of a sudden weak.

• 1:30:26Danny Jones?

  Whoa. So how many years has it been since, okay, so it's been, you think every 700,000 years there's a complete flip?

• 1:30:38Speaker 03

  There is a flip. It's not exactly 700,000

• 1:30:41Danny Jones?

  Roughly?

• 1:30:42Speaker 03

  Roughly, yeah. I mean, you know that that's the way that you discovered the continental drift?

• 1:30:48Danny Jones?

  I had no idea.

• 1:30:49Speaker 03

  No, because when you have the continent in the Pacific, for instance, they are moving out, and it's, you know, what do you call lava, it's

• 1:31:03Danny Jones?

  Like volcano?

• 1:31:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, volcano, and

• 1:31:06Danny Jones?

  Oh, lava comes up through like the

• 1:31:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, and then the plates are moving

• 1:31:12Danny Jones?

  Yes, right, right, right.

• 1:31:14Speaker 03

  And then the magnetic field that you have at that time is sort of stored in the lava when it hardens. So then you can see, if you go with the, you measure the magnetic field orientations over the bottom, you can see that all of a sudden it flips, and then it flips. And then you can see there's about, you know, 700,000 years between these flips. So there was something that was discovered in the 60s. And that was, you know, Wegener, he was the one that proposed it in the 1920s, that there was continental drift. And he was

• 1:31:58Speaker 03

  ridiculed for a long time.

• 1:32:02Danny Jones?

  So what, so when that, if that magnetic flip happened, how long does that take?

• 1:32:07Speaker 03

  It takes about maybe 5,000 years.

• 1:32:10Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow. Oh, that's not very fast. That's very slow. I thought it was like a one-day thing.

• 1:32:14Speaker 03

  No, it takes

• 1:32:16Danny Jones?

  So it's not something that anyone would notice? It's not like a catastrophic event that happens?

• 1:32:21Speaker 03

  Not as such, no.

• 1:32:23Danny Jones?

  Okay. See, when I, when I hear of this happening, I thought it was like the Earth's crust or something, flipping around the core?

• 1:32:34Speaker 03

  Well, it is, of course, the liquid movement inside that are changing, yes.

• 1:32:41Danny Jones?

  Is it possible for the actual, like, outer shell of the planet to become disconnected from the interior part of the planet and move across, like, like move?

• 1:32:53Speaker 03

  Well, I mean, the plates are moving, but you know, it's very slow what is going on. So, I mean, we have a solid core. In, the most inner part is a solid core.

• 1:33:12Danny Jones?

  But the layer between the core and the surface of the Earth, there's a magma, right? Like a liquid, kind of like a

• 1:33:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:33:23Danny Jones?

  Okay. So it's never happened to where like, the actual surface of the Earth has like abruptly changed or moved, or something like that?

• 1:33:30Speaker 03

  Not, not like

• 1:33:31Danny Jones?

  Not that, not that we know of?

• 1:33:33Speaker 03

  No, but I mean, the continent, if you look over millions of years, they have been moving like crazy. So geologists say that India, for instance, has been moving, you know, like a speedboat through the Indian Ocean at that time. And that's why, and it burst into Asia, and that's why you got the Himalayas. And they're so high.

• 1:33:59Danny Jones?

  Right, right, right, right.

• 1:34:00Speaker 03

  So that quite recent.

• 1:34:02Danny Jones?

  That's fascinating. So, okay, wow. So it seems like, if it's true that, what you're postulating here is that the cosmic rays and then the solar activity and, you know, all the supernovas throughout the, throughout the Milky Way, also in correlation to where we are within the Milky Way galaxy, whether we're in the arm or whether we're in between arms, has an equal effect on the overall climate of the Earth compared to what humans are producing?

• 1:34:37Speaker 03

  I mean, on these timescales that we've been talking about, I mean, it's huge. It's very, very big changes we're talking about. And it's big changes that are not just changing climate, it has been very important for the conditions for life on Earth. So that's it's

• 1:34:55Danny Jones?

  Well, depending on how much, how much activity is happening in the Milky Way galaxy, it can have dramatic shifts, something on the effect of like that no humans could ever produce.

• 1:35:05Speaker 03

  That's, that's true. I mean, if you go to, I mean

• 1:35:12Danny Jones?

  It's interesting that you put it this way, like, you know, the way you lay it out is very interesting. It's very compelling because like, you know, most people, the way people think about things nowadays is binary, like it's either this way or it's that way. It's not, there's no room for nuance and things like this. But what you're showing is like, yeah, like, human beings are contributing to CO2, but what you're showing is how much of a real effect, like, how dramatic the effect of these cosmic rays and the solar activity can actually have over billions of years. And, you know, we're just this little blip on the geological timeline of the Earth, and it's important to have that perspective on it.

• 1:35:51Speaker 03

  The, I think it's deeply, deeply fascinating when you look at these, I mean, you said billions of years. There, I showed you a figure where yourself changes in star formation over billions of years. The reason that you have star formation over billions of years is not because of spiral arms. It's because the Milky Way, you have some what we call dwarf galaxies that are, you know, getting close to the Milky Way. And when it gets close, it induces star formation because of the tidal effect on the gases. So

• 1:36:34Danny Jones?

  So it's other galaxies running into the Milky Way galaxy?

• 1:36:37Speaker 03

  If you go to number 43, I can just show you one example. You have the Milky Way, and then what you see is the path of what is called the Sagittarius dwarf galaxy. And on the insert the curve there, what you see is periods when it induced star formation in the solar, in the Milky Way. And you see around four, six and four billion years ago, there was a large interaction between the Milky Way and the dwarf galaxy. And that is actually also

• 1:37:20Danny Jones?

  Six billion years ago?

• 1:37:21Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:37:22Danny Jones?

  That's so crazy.

• 1:37:23Speaker 03

  But that's actually also when the solar system was formed. So it might be that this event was part of why we, why the solar, why the sun was formed.

• 1:37:33Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:37:35Speaker 03

  But then if you can move further on, and you get to 2 billion years, then you see there's a big burst of star formation because you had an interaction again. And 1 billion years. And these two peaks, they fit very beautifully with the figure that I showed you before. So

• 1:37:53Danny Jones?

  So 2 billion years ago, it hit the other side of the Milky Way?

• 1:37:58Speaker 03

  It might have hit, yes. And then it induces star formation. And on these timescales, it's in general, it produces a lot of star formation in the

• 1:38:15Danny Jones?

  This is so wild. And the Big Bang is 14 million, 14 billion years ago.

• 1:38:22Speaker 03

  Something like that.

• 1:38:23Danny Jones?

  What is the story? Are you familiar with with this this data that came out in like the last year? Maybe it was longer than a year ago, but I discovered it a year ago, where somebody wrote a paper about how they found some super old or late galaxies or something, and something about measuring the redshift.

• 1:38:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:38:46Danny Jones?

  This would have pushed back the Big Bang or something like this?

• 1:38:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm not sure where things are standing at the at the moment, but there are some, you know, that might be some revisions to how we understand how things started. I mean, you have Roger Penrose, for instance, Nobel Prize winner. He's talking about, you know, cyclic universes where, you know, one universe, it goes, you know, back and forth. So so it recreates itself over and over. So there are many, you know, ideas, but it's sort of on the limit of what we can, you know, comprehend with the data we have now.

• 1:39:35Speaker 03

  But it's fascinating.

• 1:39:37Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah, it's I can't imagine it's a very easy process to revise history like that. It's been sort of, you know, been written in stone, for lack of a better way of putting it, right? It's very, people don't like to change the past, like based on new data. When we come up with, when we find new data, it's not, when has it ever happened that we've revised history books? I don't know.

• 1:40:03Speaker 03

  I mean, in science, it should have happened at some point. Of course, people who have been working on things and believed it a certain way, they will, of course, want to defend and they want to, you know, it has to be good evidence in order to, you know, contradict a certain.

• 1:40:26Danny Jones?

  Because you have, you know, there's jobs that are at stake, right? People have jobs to defend and, you know, they want to, I would imagine, I've never been in that world, but I would, I would, just from like what I've experienced with people on this podcast, there's a tribal mentality, where it's like, you know, I want to fit in with the other people I want that think like me. And it's like this this in group in academia.

• 1:40:53Speaker 03

  Science is done by people. And of course, I mean, you have some idealized idea about how science is done and so on, but it's done by people. So sometimes they don't behave as you'd.

• 1:41:06Danny Jones?

  That's a very good way of putting it.

• 1:41:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:41:09Danny Jones?

  Do you think, like with other colleagues that you've worked with, in what's the university you work, or you no longer work for the university?

• 1:41:20Speaker 03

  It's the Technical University of Denmark.

• 1:41:23Danny Jones?

  So like with the people that you have conversations with, you know, at this university, who may be like on the periphery of your studies, have you noticed that this is more like an ideological thing? Or it's maybe it's not talked about, or is it strictly financial? Or is it both?

• 1:41:44Speaker 03

  I mean, I would say many of my colleagues, because it's, you know, an astrophysics group, they're interested in astrophysics. I think most of them have no, you know, stake in climate at all. So they just think that, you know, if, you know, some of these astrophysics things are really important for for what's happening on Earth, I think they think it's interesting. But if you start, I mean, if you go to the University of Copenhagen, where people are working on climate, and they are climate scientists, and some of them are working and are working for the, are doing work for the IPCC, the International Panel on Climate,

• 1:42:28Speaker 03

  they have some stakes in this. And that that seems to be, it's not founded in, you know, just in science and rational thoughts. There are other things. And there you see that it's people that are doing science.

• 1:42:43Danny Jones?

  So the IPCC funds a lot of the people.

• 1:42:46Speaker 03

  But they don't fund people as such, no. They just nominate people, and then they work for them. And.

• 1:42:56Danny Jones?

  They nominate scientists and then bring them into.

• 1:42:59Speaker 03

  Yes. And then they they write certain chapters, make some assessment of the state of climate, and all the research that is being done. And when you write these types of large governmental reports, a lot of it is how you phrase things, what you want. So even though my my stuff is in this, in the IPCC reports, they do mention it, and they have some chapters on it. They use a lot of time saying that all these people who couldn't

• 1:43:39Speaker 03

  get it to work in their models, you know, that is the state of of this. So so they're saying that, you know, there might be an effect, but it's not important.

• 1:43:52Danny Jones?

  Right. The problem with it, high level, is that this is such a complex thing to understand, this whole topic. There's so many moving parts, right? And there's so.

• 1:44:03Speaker 03

  Climate?

• 1:44:04Danny Jones?

  Climate.

• 1:44:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:44:05Danny Jones?

  Yeah. And it's tied into everything, like with geological, with astrophysics, and all of this stuff, and chemistry, like just what you've shown me so far is blowing my mind. And 99.999% of human beings on this earth who are aware of climate change, they don't know anything about this stuff, yet they have an opinion on, based strictly on political. Like, you can take the political divide, just in this country, and you can just say, tell me what political side they're on, and I can tell you what their stance is on climate change. And they have no understanding.

• 1:44:42Speaker 03

  No. And it's also because it's difficult, right, to know all these things.

• 1:44:47Danny Jones?

  Super difficult. Right.

• 1:44:49Speaker 03

  I mean, it takes some efforts in order to get a hold of, and really make a good opinion about this. Do you want to see more on how it affect life?

• 1:45:01Danny Jones?

  Yeah, definitely.

• 1:45:03Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:45:03Danny Jones?

  Let's do it.

• 1:45:06Speaker 03

  So what I want to talk, I want to discuss now is, I mean, we talked about that we had a huge effect on climate, and the climate had a huge effect on the amount of biomass that we had on Earth. So the question is, has it any influence on the macroevolution? That is, you know, the life forms that we have had on Earth. And the life forms, I mean, how do we know history back in time? It is from fossils. So if you go into sedimentary mountains that you have here, this is again, Grand Canyon, you can go into different layers,

• 1:45:47Speaker 03

  and then you can find different types of animals or fossils. And these fossils, I mean, it's something that has been investigated by biologists and paleontologists, I think they're called. And they have put all these in huge databases. So you have all this information about what kinds of animals you have at a certain time. And the interesting question is, why, you know, why has life changed? I mean, the number of, you call it the diversity?

• 1:46:26Speaker 03

  Why has that changed as a function of time? So what I did is, I took some of these databases, if you look at the next slide, here. So here we can have the last 500 million years. And what I've done is, I look at the number of what's called genera. It's just above the species level, like, I mean, a cat and a lion, that's the same genera.

• 1:47:00Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:47:01Speaker 03

  So what you then count here is the number of genera. And you can see that over the last 500 million years, there are some changes. You see that there are sort of two maximum,

• 1:47:15Speaker 03

  around 400 million years, and one around 300 million years. And then there's a slow increase until the our modern time.

• 1:47:24Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:47:25Speaker 03

  And the difference between the three curves is simply the way that you have extracted the data from these databases is done in slightly different ways. But they all show some similarities in the data, as you can see. So the question which is asked here is, why are there these changes? I mean, why is the diversity or the richness of of life, why has that changed over time? And there's been many, many ideas about this. What I want to show you is that you can actually, I mean, I think you can explain it with just

• 1:48:03Speaker 03

  two things. One is supernovas, and the other has to do with the area, area of what we called shallow marine margins, shallow marine, what the shelves.

• 1:48:18Danny Jones?

  Seashells, continental shelves?

• 1:48:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, continental shelves. So if you go to the next slide, what you see here is about 100 million years ago in the Cretaceous period, you can see you had much higher sea levels.

• 1:48:36Danny Jones?

  Whoa.

• 1:48:38Speaker 03

  Therefore, a lot of the continent were.

• 1:48:42Danny Jones?

  Florida is gone.

• 1:48:44Speaker 03

  Yes, everything is flooded. And a large part of the US is flooded, too. And the light blue areas, that is where you have this shallow water.

• 1:48:58Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:48:59Speaker 03

  And where you have the shallow water is really where most life in the oceans is.

• 1:49:04Speaker 03

  And then in biology, it has turned out that if you have a larger area, you have more species. So if you have a region with a larger area, then it seems every time.

• 1:49:17Danny Jones?

  Land area?

• 1:49:19Speaker 03

  Well, area in the also in the ocean.

• 1:49:21Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:49:22Speaker 03

  So if you have a larger area, you have more species. So if you have a small area, you have few species. If you have a larger, it scales with this area. So that's one thing. So if you go to the next slide.

• 1:49:36Speaker 03

  So, okay, so yeah, just hit the... If you... No, yeah, okay. So, yeah.

• 1:49:46Danny Jones?

  Okay, wow.

• 1:49:47Speaker 03

  So this is this low area, and the idea is that it's there where you have all the... Most of the life. The deep part of the oceans is more like a desert. So there's very, very few...

• 1:50:01Danny Jones?

  Not much life?

• 1:50:02Speaker 03

  Much, much less life.

• 1:50:04Danny Jones?

  That's why all the big fish that are out there, the pelagic fish, like the oceanic sharks, they're like, they're scavengers. They're eating anything and everything.

• 1:50:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's true. Okay, so...

• 1:50:17Speaker 03

  So I say that the diversity is somehow proportional to this area. So we'll go to the next one.

• 1:50:25Speaker 03

  So what you see this top, you can see how the continent has been drifting as a function of time, so...

• 1:50:34Danny Jones?

  Which continent is that in the yellow?

• 1:50:36Speaker 03

  I think it's South America, you can see it now.

• 1:50:38Danny Jones?

  Oh, I see, I can see it now, yeah, yeah.

• 1:50:40Speaker 03

  So, and you see, then we get up to the modern time, and everything looks like, you know, the map that we know today.

• 1:50:48Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:50:49Speaker 03

  But if you look at the curves down under, you can actually see how the area has been changing as a function of time. So there was a period where the seashells were not that big. And then there's a period where they're big. If you go to the next one, it's just...

• 1:51:13Speaker 03

  So I say that the diversity is proportional to the area of this shallow water times the supernova. So if you press it one more time? So if I now divide by the area over on the other side, then I have one part which is only supernova, and the other one is only diversity divided by area. So the curve up there is the diversity, and I divide it now by the area and go to the next slide. Yeah, just go to the next. Like this, this is the change in cosmic rays over this period.

• 1:51:51Speaker 03

  And now I will put on top of that the diversity normalized with the area, if you plot that.

• 1:51:59Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:52:01Danny Jones?

  Whoa!

• 1:52:05Speaker 03

  So what you see is a remarkable correlation over this period.

• 1:52:10Danny Jones?

  So much more sea life when the cosmic ray activity is high.

• 1:52:15Speaker 03

  Yes. Diversity, yeah, diversity, richness of life, yes.

• 1:52:21Danny Jones?

  Why do you think it is that Earth is the only planet in the solar system with life?

• 1:52:27Speaker 03

  There must be some special conditions that... I mean, it could be that there has been life on Mars.

• 1:52:34Danny Jones?

  That's what a lot of people say, a lot of astrophysicists say that...

• 1:52:39Danny Jones?

  They say it could have originated on Mars.

• 1:52:41Speaker 03

  It could, yeah.

• 1:52:42Danny Jones?

  And then spread here.

• 1:52:44Speaker 03

  That's a possibility, but I mean, it's amazing that how difficult it is to determine whether there's been life on Mars or not.

• 1:52:53Danny Jones?

  It's, and it's crazy too, like, we think, you know, we look everywhere for life, all over the universe, we try to like, imagine, you know, how many billions and trillions of planets and solar systems and, you know, galaxies there are, but like, the one planet that we know of that's completely teeming with life, the most logical place to look would be our next-door neighbor.

• 1:53:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:53:14Danny Jones?

  You know? It's just crazy that it's a completely barren wasteland.

• 1:53:17Speaker 03

  But if you go to Venus, it's, you know, horrible.

• 1:53:23Danny Jones?

  Oh, it's hell, right?

• 1:53:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's hell on Earth.

• 1:53:25Danny Jones?

  And people believe that there could have, there could be life in the clouds of Venus, right?

• 1:53:30Speaker 03

  Yes, I know, a scientist who...

• 1:53:32Danny Jones?

  They're studying that.

• 1:53:33Speaker 03

  Yes, I suggested it, I don't know if I'll just study it, but maybe, yeah.

• 1:53:40Danny Jones?

  And I guess the idea is that, and I could be way off base here, but that the planets surround, that are orbiting the sun are slowly moving outward?

• 1:53:50Danny Jones?

  And who knows how long ago Mars could have been more in line with where Earth is now? Does that sound right?

• 1:53:58Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 1:54:01Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:54:04Speaker 03

  I mean, one of the reasons, I mean, there's one interesting, we have the moon. The moon is, you know, orbital locked to the Earth.

• 1:54:16Danny Jones?

  Yes, that's a huge part of it.

• 1:54:17Speaker 03

  And that makes, stabilizes our rotation axis.

• 1:54:21Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:54:22Speaker 03

  So if we didn't have the moon, our axis would wobble like this, and, you know, having complex life would probably not be possible.

• 1:54:30Danny Jones?

  Does Mars and the other planets in the solar system have a similar axis wobble like the, like the Earth that we know of? Are you aware of that?

• 1:54:40Speaker 03

  They have some wobble, but I'm not sure how big they are.

• 1:54:42Danny Jones?

  Also, also, the Earth, as far as I'm aware, is the only planet that we know of that is like, has the specific distance between the moon and the sun to where you get that perfect eclipse.

• 1:54:54Speaker 03

  Yes, that's, that's true.

• 1:54:56Danny Jones?

  From what I understand, that's like extraordinarily, almost impossibly rare.

• 1:55:00Speaker 03

  Yes, it is rare. And it's also rare that a planet have such a large moon. So the moon is really large. I mean, if you look at Mars, you know...

• 1:55:14Danny Jones?

  And most moons are like potato-shaped, like weird oblong, not perfectly circled.

• 1:55:19Speaker 03

  That's because they're very small, so gravity cannot form...

• 1:55:23Danny Jones?

  Form it. Right, right.

• 1:55:29Speaker 03

  So when I, when I found these things, I mean, I hardly could believe, you know, what I was seeing, so it's...

• 1:55:37Danny Jones?

  I can hardly believe it.

• 1:55:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:55:42Danny Jones?

  So...

• 1:55:45Danny Jones?

  What is, what is your plan next? Like, what other sort of studies or investigations do you plan on doing to corroborate this even further? Is there anything more you can possibly do?

• 1:55:58Speaker 03

  Well, I mean, what I wanted to do, which was to take one of these global models and then show that it actually also important over the last hundred years.

• 1:56:13Speaker 03

  That's one part. So the idea is to incorporate this mechanism with the cosmic rays and the effect on clouds into a global model, where then also have greenhouse gases, and you have everything. And then show that it's actually also important in present day. It has some importance, but it might not, I mean, it doesn't mean that CO2 is not also important in some sense, but it could be that the climate sensitivity to CO2 is smaller than what you get from climate models in general.

• 1:56:53Speaker 03

  I mean, you know that when you, if you double CO2, then you, from the IPCC, the International Panel on Climate, they have made an estimate that the temperature will increase between two and maybe five degrees.

• 1:57:08Danny Jones?

  If we double the current CO2?

• 1:57:10Speaker 03

  Yes, if you have a doubling of CO2.

• 1:57:12Danny Jones?

  Now, it doesn't sound like a lot, but would that be a catastrophic effect for humanity?

• 1:57:18Speaker 03

  That's what they're saying.

• 1:57:20Danny Jones?

  They're saying two to five degrees would be...

• 1:57:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, two to five.

• 1:57:24Speaker 03

  But this temperature change is not from CO2 alone. It is simply because you imagine that if you increase the CO2, then it also changes the amount of water vapor and the amount of clouds in the atmosphere. So most of the warming that you see from this model is because they think that you have less clouds in a future climate, therefore it gets even warmer. You have more water vapor, so it has more greenhouse gas from that. So these are what we call feedback effects.

• 1:58:00Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:58:01Speaker 03

  Positive feedback. So it increases the temperature. The direct effect from CO2 alone is only about one degree.

• 1:58:10Danny Jones?

  Right, but you're saying that everything else is connected to it, so it's going to have this cascading effect?

• 1:58:15Speaker 03

  That's what the models are saying. But that means that most of the effect that you are seeing is not from CO2, but because you believe there is a large positive feedback from clouds and water vapor.

• 1:58:29Danny Jones?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:58:30Speaker 03

  So you can imagine that if you now put in the cosmic rays, maybe that, maybe the cosmic rays are changing things in such a way that the effect from CO2 is just smaller, and you don't have a large effect on clouds from the CO2, but it is controlled by cosmic rays.

• 1:58:52Danny Jones?

  Pull that mic in a little bit more so we can hear.

• 1:58:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, that you, you get an effect from cosmic rays, because over the last hundred years cosmic rays have been dropping. And there's been a drop in cosmic rays, so that could actually be part of the warming also. So you don't need so much warming from CO2.

• 1:59:16Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:59:17Speaker 03

  And that means that the climate sensitivity to CO2 is smaller than what you get in these global model estimates.

• 1:59:26Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:59:28Speaker 03

  And there's been a lot of studies, empirical studies, where they get that the climate sensitivity seems to be smaller than what you get, so it's on the order of, in the low end, so it may be one degree or one and a half degree for a doubling of CO2. And if that is true, it means that this whole CO2 thing is less of a problem.

• 1:59:52Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:52Speaker 03

  And we might have more time to find good solutions.

• 1:59:58Danny Jones?

  Yeah, they don't seem to be the world governments that seem to make this the big, you know, this big, you know, emergency out of the climate change seem, climate change thing. They don't seem to be practicing what they preach, you know, when, you know, we're blasting off how many rockets every day, you know, from right, you know, 200 miles away from here in Cape Canaveral, launching satellites into, you know, there's, there's so many, there's like 60, 70,000 satellites orbiting the earth at all times, constantly the threats of nuclear bombs exploding and, you know, throughout, throughout the 50s and 60s, how many nuclear tests that we were detonating all over the world, like, what

• 2:00:37Danny Jones?

  kind of effect did that have on the, on the, on the cosmic rays and all that kind of stuff? And, you know, as far as clouds and polluting the atmosphere, I know we did this thing called Operation Starfish Prime in, I think, the 60s, where American scientists, with the help of Nazi scientists, were detonating nukes in the upper atmosphere.

• 2:01:00Speaker 03

  That's for real.

• 2:01:01Danny Jones?

  You know, trying to see if they could blow a hole in the Van Allen belt or something, who knows, you know, it's just like, the amount of, the amount of things that, you know, governments have been doing that have been just polluting and destroying the earth is unimaginable. To try to blame that on, on, you know, people that are just trying to get by paycheck to paycheck, driving their gasoline powered car and trying to impose more carbon taxes on them for that, it just seems like so counterintuitive, you know, it seems so illogical.

• 2:01:32Speaker 03

  I mean, it's gonna be the economy that is gonna be the thing that kills, you know, solar and wind because it's too expensive. And there are so many, I mean, you have Africa, you have India, you have China, they all want cheap energy. And you are not gonna get it from solar and wind, unfortunately.

• 2:01:56Danny Jones?

  And, and as far as the, the global CO2 output, I think America, I think China is number one on that. Where China's like 30 to 40% of the total CO2 emissions. And then, you know, America is like way down on that, but.

• 2:02:14Speaker 03

  And the reason is that you are using gas, natural gas, right? Because the emission from that is much slower of CO2.

• 2:02:26Danny Jones?

  What, what has been your, your experience with, compared to your colleagues in this space, as far as like getting funding for your research?

• 2:02:38Speaker 03

  That's been the problem. It's been nearly impossible for me to get funding. And as I said, 2021, the university tried to fire me first time. And then I was hired, I was not fired because of some protests from, from, I mean, I actually don't know why they didn't fire me, but there were protests from, from some scientists at MIT and Princeton that supported my, you know, my research and said that it would be, you know, idiotic

• 2:03:22Speaker 03

  to, to fire because it was important. But then they said to me that I had to find my own funding for my salary. And that's, that's been nearly impossible. So I had to do all kinds of things, you know, alternative things. So I had to find private funding for people who wanted to help me because getting public funding was nearly impossible. For the same reason that when I send in an application, it's usually sent out to other climate scientists. And in 199.99% of the time, these are people who believe that it should be something related

• 2:04:03Speaker 03

  to CO2. And what I'm doing is not something that we want to hear about. It's a shame that it's, it's like that. So getting funding has been a big problem. And, and you cannot do research if you don't have funding.

• 2:04:23Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:04:24Speaker 03

  In 2017, we did, you know, four years of experimental work. And after that, I couldn't get any money to do any more experimental work.

• 2:04:36Danny Jones?

  Is that, was that the CERN stuff?

• 2:04:38Speaker 03

  That was our stuff in Copenhagen.

• 2:04:41Danny Jones?

  Oh, okay.

• 2:04:42Speaker 03

  And now they have confiscated my whole laboratory. I don't have the laboratory.

• 2:04:49Danny Jones?

  They've confiscated your whole laboratory?

• 2:04:51Speaker 03

  Yes, I'm not allowed to go in there anymore. So, I mean.

• 2:04:55Danny Jones?

  What was their reason for doing that?

• 2:04:57Speaker 03

  Well, I mean, the official reason is that someone in the institute had used, I think, 11 million Danish kroner, I don't know how much, that's maybe 2 million US dollars, too much. So they had a deficit. And then they decided to fire people. And I was one of them that they wanted to fire.

• 2:05:23Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow. That was the reason they gave you relief?

• 2:05:27Speaker 03

  That's the reason they gave me. And, I mean, in many levels, in 2016, I was, you know, it was an international committee, I was a professor at that time. And I was up for becoming a promotion to a, you know, it's called a full professor. Before, I was just a research professor. And then the head of the university, he simply canceled the professorship and I was demoted. So.

• 2:06:05Danny Jones?

  What was the reason he gave?

• 2:06:07Speaker 03

  I never got a reason. I never had a reason why that happened. I mean, I could tell you so many weird things that happened to me. And that's because, you know, climate science is not normal science. I mean, you, I don't know if you have talked about, there are also American scientists who have lost their jobs if they have said, you know, the wrong thing about global warming. It's been so politicized. And the director of our university, he is, you know, I would say, you know, the only thing he goes up into, he only talks about renewables and green energy and so on. So what I'm doing is probably not something

• 2:06:52Speaker 03

  that he likes as such. And so, I mean, so many weird things. Also, at some point, I got money from a foundation and, you know, some research scientists, you know, who are head of sections in some large institutions, they contacted my foundation, who gave me money, and said that they should revoke my, my money. Because, I mean, I don't know, but they were just want to, I mean, there's so many that have tried to stop what I've

• 2:07:35Speaker 03

  been doing. It's, and, and it sounds completely awful, but what has been the, the, the good thing for me is that I've had this science that I could do, which I think, as you saw the results, I think they're so fascinating that whatever people thinks, you know, because it doesn't fit into this global narrative about global warming and CO2. I mean, the whole part of what I'm talking about on these long time scales, it doesn't really matter because it's not related to CO2. It's the part where it, people think that it has an

• 2:08:17Speaker 03

  effect on what we're talking about with respect to global warming. That's why it's such a, a sensitive thing.

• 2:08:29Danny Jones?

  Do you have any idea who specifically are the forces behind this stuff, this push to get you shunned from academia and get all your funding revoked, like specifically?

• 2:08:41Speaker 03

  I think it's individual people in some sense. I mean.

• 2:08:50Speaker 03

  I have no idea if there's any orchestrated thing. I mean, for the first time, I got hired as a professor. There was a different, you know, director or president of the university. And he called me up to his office and said that he really liked what I was doing. And he didn't care if there was a protest or anything, because there should be, you know, room. I mean, just what we would expect, how science should be done. And then he told me that after he had, you know, opened this position, he said that a number of, you know, scientists had contacted him and said that they shouldn't hire me because of what I was doing.

• 2:09:34Speaker 03

  And they shouldn't have this kind of research. And I'm sure that the second time when I was up for this promotion, that some scientists have contacted the other new director there. And he chose to not to close the position. So it's very difficult to understand for people who think that science is sort of a pure thing. And you just go try to figure out, that's how it should be.

• 2:10:07Danny Jones?

  Trust the science. The science is settled. That's the phrase they use. The climate science is settled.

• 2:10:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's not science.

• 2:10:14Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:10:15Speaker 03

  I mean, that's not a scientific, because nothing is settled in science.

• 2:10:18Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:10:20Speaker 03

  It's always up for revision, what we're doing.

• 2:10:24Danny Jones?

  Now, have there been any specific people or universities or organizations that have been really open to what you're doing and trying to promote you and trying to push this stuff forward?

• 2:10:39Speaker 03

  Well, I mean, I have my collaborator, which I mentioned, was Nez Shaviv in Jerusalem. And he and his university is open towards these things. As you know, in Israel, they have real problems. So CO2 is not one of them.

• 2:11:01Danny Jones?

  Right. I've heard, I've heard a thing or two.

• 2:11:07Speaker 03

  So my hope is that I can go there and do some work as a visiting scientist or something like that. And continue our work.

• 2:11:19Danny Jones?

  Wait till things settle down a little bit first.

• 2:11:21Speaker 03

  Well, I don't think they settle down, no, in Israel, yeah.

• 2:11:23Danny Jones?

  Yeah, you're gonna have, I'm saying, telling you, like, wait till it settles down a little bit before you travel over there. And now, what about, you know, it's crazy that in Denmark that you would be getting this kind of, this kind of pressure put on you. But do you have any friends or colleagues in the United States? You said you were getting help from MIT and Princeton. They were protesting this stuff about you firing them.

• 2:11:47Speaker 03

  Yes, I have, for instance, I mean, I don't know if you know him, Will Haber.

• 2:11:53Danny Jones?

  Will Haber.

• 2:11:54Speaker 03

  Haber, Haber.

• 2:11:56Danny Jones?

  Sounds familiar.

• 2:11:57Speaker 03

  He's, he has been the advisor to, I think, two presidents for science and so on. He's a fantastic scientist.

• 2:12:11Danny Jones?

  Is he with a specific university or something?

• 2:12:14Speaker 03

  He's at Princeton University, University of Princeton or whatever it's called.

• 2:12:19Danny Jones?

  Interesting.

• 2:12:21Speaker 03

  He's, yeah, he's fantastic. And then also, I mean, you probably know him, Richard Lindson.

• 2:12:27Danny Jones?

  That also sounds familiar.

• 2:12:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, Richard Lindson. But they're all, you know, known to be skeptical about CO2 in a rational way. I mean, what they are saying is rational, and they are very well.

• 2:12:43Danny Jones?

  How so?

• 2:12:45Speaker 03

  Well, I'm just saying that they have an opinion which is based on rational thought, you know, about science and how science works.

• 2:12:55Danny Jones?

  Okay, I see what you're saying. Now, I want to go back to the CERN thing. What specifically was the goal with that CERN study that you were a part of in the beginning?

• 2:13:07Speaker 03

  I mean, the CERN, so the whole CERN project was founded because of my work. That was the thing was to investigate the effect of, you know, cosmic rays on the formation of clouds. And that's why it's called Cloud.

• 2:13:26Danny Jones?

  Is it still going there? Are they still doing that?

• 2:13:28Speaker 03

  They're still doing it. I'm not a part of it anymore. That's another story. I was thrown out of the collaboration. I was in the steering group of the whole thing. I mean, I was the second person that did this. And I had contacted CERN in order to get them to do this kind of experiment.

• 2:13:49Danny Jones?

  Yeah, that would seem like a big funding opportunity.

• 2:13:53Speaker 03

  Yes, the funding has to come outside of CERN. Actually, but they, of course, they deliver the beam, the particles and so on. And some infrastructure. But what happened was that a lot of, I think, a lot of atmospheric physicists came in to be a part of this cloud project. At that time, just before I was kicked out, I, what happened? Oh, I forgot. What was it?

• 2:14:38Danny Jones?

  Right before you were kicked out of CERN?

• 2:14:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, I was trying to say what I was doing. I just thought completely disappeared. But I was part of the.

• 2:14:51Danny Jones?

  But they adopted, they decided to?

• 2:14:54Speaker 03

  Yes, okay, a lot of atmospheric scientists went into the project, became part of the project. And these people were very much, you know, into the CO2 thing, because that's how they get funded. And what happened was that at that time, the movie, The Cloud Mystery, came out, probably the one you've seen. And that gave a lot of, you know, stir up things. So what happened was that a lot of these people were afraid that if they had me in the collaboration, they might have problems getting funding.

• 2:15:37Speaker 03

  So they chose to throw me out. And they said that it was because I had an experiment in Copenhagen at that time. I mean, it doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

• 2:15:51Danny Jones?

  So how much progress have they made at CERN?

• 2:15:56Speaker 03

  They showed in 2011, they had the main results showing that ionization is actually helping the formation of new aerosols. It's essentially the same experiment we did in 2007. I mean, it's four years before they did it. So they can sort of confirm that ions are producing aerosols. But they also had a group, you know, around CERN that tried to put these things into their model, to a big model, atmospheric model. And that showed that these small aerosols would not grow to become cloud condensation nuclei.

• 2:16:40Speaker 03

  And now we know that it's because they don't have the right physics in their models. But so they are sort of trying to say that this effect is not important for climate. So that's where they are at this moment. And since then.

• 2:16:53Danny Jones?

  Really? That's the conclusion they came to?

• 2:16:55Speaker 03

  More or less, yeah. Yes, that it's not particularly important. I think if they, I mean, when they came up with the results, even the director of the whole of CERN was saying that they should be very, very careful with what they said and so on, you know, because of politics. Everybody was, you know, extremely nervous about saying that maybe the cosmic rays are actually affecting the formation of these particles.

• 2:17:33Speaker 03

  So I parted my ways with the CERN project many years ago.

• 2:17:40Danny Jones?

  What do you think would change societally, globally,

• 2:17:48Danny Jones?

  if what you're positing here became just an accepted thing and it wasn't so actively suppressed? If this was something, if you didn't, if we didn't have all these external financial entanglements into climate, and this was just something that was naturally allowed to be out there and be discussed by everybody,

• 2:18:13Danny Jones?

  what kind of effect would that have?

• 2:18:16Speaker 03

  No, but I think people would be fascinated with the idea that, you know, we are not completely isolated and, you know, stars and star formation has influenced

• 2:18:31Speaker 03

  everything here on Earth and it will still do it in the future. I mean, it's something, it's part of life that all of these things. And it's not just part of life, it has actually shaped life. I think that's an interesting thing.

• 2:18:47Danny Jones?

  Totally.

• 2:18:49Speaker 03

  But if we now, I mean, I really would like to do this thing with this model to test how it works in the present when we have also greenhouse gases. Because ideally, it could be that it would say that CO2 is not such a big problem and maybe we shouldn't be so worried about it. That could save a lot of money.

• 2:19:13Danny Jones?

  Right. Yeah, I mean, my thing is like, the Earth creates these, these gases and these fossil fuels that we're burning, right? And like, it's, if it's coming from the Earth, it's, it's, it's part of nature. So it's like a part of the fuel that is created by this Earth. It's not like we're extracting some, you know, crazy foreign element from, you know, another galaxy and bringing it here and destroying the Earth. I mean, like, I think everyone would agree across the globe that littering is bad. You don't, you don't want to litter, right? You don't want to make, use the planet as your trash can.

• 2:19:53Danny Jones?

  But like, we are a fundamental part of the, the natural balance of, of this Earth. And, you know, we are just naturally evolving, you know? If you want to argue about how fast we're evolving or how good or bad that will be, it's a natural process.

• 2:20:11Danny Jones?

  And, um, you know, I think that's become just more apparent now than ever with, you know, all this talk about AI and stuff like that.

• 2:20:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:20:21Danny Jones?

  And like super sentience and where that's going to lead.

• 2:20:24Speaker 03

  I mean, we should also say, I mean, that CO2, it is a gas of life.

• 2:20:29Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:20:30Speaker 03

  And because we have an elevated, I mean, humans' activity has elevated the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. You've had an enormous greening of, of the Earth, which is, I mean, plants are really happy about it and especially in, in, you know, where you're on, on, on, where you're on the edge of deserts. And so that's where it's very important that you have more CO2 because you don't have the evaporation of water. If you have more CO2, you don't have to have so many stomata, you know, the, the cells that take up, that take up CO2.

• 2:21:12Speaker 03

  The plant is actually, before it makes it leaves, it, it actually somehow measures how much CO2 is in the atmosphere. And then it gets the number of stomata that these cells. So if you have a period where you had very little CO2, you have many holes in the leaf, but that's also, so water will fall out of the leaf.

• 2:21:41Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 2:21:45Danny Jones?

  What do you got, Siri, what was this?

• 2:21:46Speaker 04

  So I, I asked if, if deserts have grown greener since humans have been pumping CO2 in, in the atmosphere? And the answer is yes, absolutely.

• 2:21:54Danny Jones?

  Deserts and drylands have grown significantly greener over the past few decades.

• 2:21:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's, it's, it's this enhanced water efficiency. In the arid climates are able to narrow the pores in their leaves, stomata, so.

• 2:22:09Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 2:22:10Speaker 03

  But it's also interesting because if you have fossil leaves

• 2:22:14Speaker 03

  and you can then actually, when you look at the fossil, you can see how many stomata there are.

• 2:22:19Danny Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 2:22:19Speaker 03

  You can count them. So from that, you can say something about how, how much.

• 2:22:24Danny Jones?

  How much carbon dioxide?

• 2:22:25Speaker 03

  There was in the atmosphere.

• 2:22:26Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 2:22:27Speaker 03

  So you can go back, I think, a few hundred million years.

• 2:22:30Danny Jones?

  Well, I mean, not that long ago, just a few thousand years. I think it's pretty established that like the Sahara was green, right?

• 2:22:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:22:37Danny Jones?

  And what was the CO2 level like then? Do we know?

• 2:22:41Speaker 03

  I am not sure, but not particularly, but it was higher, yeah.

• 2:22:45Danny Jones?

  It must have been higher, right? If the whole Sahara was green and lush.

• 2:22:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, but it's within the last 10,000 years, right? So.

• 2:22:53Danny Jones?

  Yeah, definitely within the last 10,000 years, as far as we know.

• 2:22:56Speaker 03

  So if you look at, if you look at the ice cores, where you can look at the, the small bubbles with CO2, you can go back the last 10,000 years and see what the CO2 level was. And it's more or less constant over that period of time. So it's not, it's not probably not.

• 2:23:16Danny Jones?

  Is it really?

• 2:23:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:23:17Danny Jones?

  Interesting.

• 2:23:18Speaker 03

  And that's interesting also because that's where you have this very beautiful correlation with solar activity. So that cannot be explained by CO2.

• 2:23:28Speaker 03

  Because CO2 is not changing.

• 2:23:30Danny Jones?

  Right, right, right, yeah. That's fascinating. You know, there's a, there's, there's been arguments, I don't know if you've ever paid attention to them, but there's, uh, there's archaeologists that debate and argue online like how far back humans were.

• 2:23:47Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:23:48Danny Jones?

  On Earth.

• 2:23:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:23:49Danny Jones?

  You know, and there are some people that posit that there could have been some crazy ancient advanced version of humans.

• 2:23:55Speaker 03

  I heard about that.

• 2:23:56Danny Jones?

  Previously to, you know, 2,000, 3,000 years ago, that were using metallurgy.

• 2:24:02Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:24:03Danny Jones?

  And, uh, and one of the ways I think they were talking about studying this was taking the bubbles in the ice cores and trying to, there's a way they can measure the isotopes in there to figure out if there was metal metallurgy on the planet or like metal production or something like this. Have you ever heard of that?

• 2:24:22Speaker 03

  That part I haven't heard, no.

• 2:24:25Danny Jones?

  But, um, yeah, and then another way they, they tried to study that is like by studying the seat, the, the continental shelves and seeing like, you know, studying ancient shipwrecks and.

• 2:24:36Speaker 03

  So it's part of archaeology, I guess.

• 2:24:38Danny Jones?

  Yeah, there's just a big debate in, uh, in archaeology about, you know, archaeologists want to kind of like can stick to the, the general consensus story of the history of humanity.

• 2:24:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:24:53Danny Jones?

  And like when hunter-gatherers came about, when the first actual civilizations came about. And then, um, there was recently that discovery of, not recently, but relatively recently, of Go Backli Tepe in Turkey. It's an ancient site where they believe that there was a, at least some sort of a civilization there. They weren't just hunter-gatherers because they were creating these huge, they had these, you want to image of Go Backli Tepe, like these big T pillars that are constructed beautifully in these like circles. And it could have been done by, by hunter-gatherers. So they had to like push back the timeline a little bit, right? And that, that was, that's Go Backli Tepe, what they've excavated so far. So there's people that argue and you would call these people, you know, these people are considered alternative historians.

• 2:25:38Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:25:39Danny Jones?

  That want to push back the scientific narrative. And, you know, there's, there's academic archaeologists that argue vehemently against this stuff and say this is heresy to talk about this.

• 2:25:49Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:25:50Danny Jones?

  And, um, you know, it's just, it's interesting because, you know, archaeology is, is another one of those sciences where it's not like, uh, it's not like a science you can measure in a lab, right? You can't like, you can't weigh it and measure it specifically. It's like, archaeology is very much dependent on the story that we tell of history, the history of humans.

• 2:26:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:26:13Danny Jones?

  Right? And then that's, you know, it's kind of like a soft science in that way.

• 2:26:17Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:26:19Danny Jones?

  But it's just interesting, you know, the, it, there's this, the reason I'm bringing this up is because the, I've noticed the same sort of clash between ideologies of different narratives that people want to spin based on human history. And, you know, it's the same thing with climate change. And I'm sure this is, you know, you can extrapolate this into many different sciences, many different.

• 2:26:41Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 2:26:42Danny Jones?

  Many different area, areas of research.

• 2:26:45Speaker 03

  I mean, one of the reasons, what I've, I've been very, you know,

• 2:26:52Speaker 03

  sure to do is to, to publish all my results in, you know, very good journals. And so you have this peer review and everything because in that sense, you cannot attack me for not doing the right thing.

• 2:27:05Danny Jones?

  Well, you know, that's a problem too, because peer review isn't that reliable. Peer review is one of those things that we look at as this holy grail, right, of being.

• 2:27:15Speaker 03

  Well, when, when you are incited, you know it not, but.

• 2:27:19Danny Jones?

  Right. You know, because I've had, I've, I've run into people that have, uh, you know, been PhDs in certain areas of research and published books that have been peer reviewed. Uh, and then like the, the peer review will be overwhelmingly negative on, you know, on that person's book or that person's research that they've done. And then you go in to read the peer review and you find out the person who did the review on this piece of work, this was not even their expertise. They were in a completely different scientific lane.

• 2:27:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:27:52Danny Jones?

  Right? So it kind of like throws the whole thing out, you know? It's, this whole idea of peer review is like this gatekeeping.

• 2:27:59Speaker 03

  In some sense, it can be.

• 2:28:02Danny Jones?

  And in that sense, it can be bastardized, you know, just like anything else.

• 2:28:05Speaker 03

  Especially in climate, it can be a problem. I mean, some, some, some papers that I've published, it took more than two years to get them out. And, uh, I mean,

• 2:28:18Speaker 03

  through all kinds of problems that you had to overcome.

• 2:28:22Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Well, Henrik, thank you for doing this, man. This has been a fascinating talk and I've learned a ton.

• 2:28:34Danny Jones?

  Is there anywhere that people can go online to find more of your work or to contact you or anything like that?

• 2:28:40Speaker 03

  They can contact me on my email.

• 2:28:43Danny Jones?

  Okay. So do you have a website or anything or?

• 2:28:45Speaker 03

  I don't have a website now. I mean, it's just part of university.

• 2:28:49Danny Jones?

  What you, do you want to publicly give your email? You're probably going to get tons of emails if you give that out publicly.

• 2:28:54Speaker 03

  It does, it is fine.

• 2:28:55Danny Jones?

  Okay, okay, go ahead and tell them your email.

• 2:28:56Speaker 03

  It's HSV@space, S P A C E dot D T U dot D K.

• 2:29:08Danny Jones?

  Okay. Well, we'll make sure that we link that in the description below for people.

• 2:29:12Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:29:13Danny Jones?

  So they can actually copy and paste it.

• 2:29:14Speaker 03

  It might work for a few more weeks.

• 2:29:18Danny Jones?

  A few, oh, is that tied to your university?

• 2:29:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, but I, I will see if I can make it forward so I can to my new email.

• 2:29:24Danny Jones?

  Okay, cool. And if you have another email or whatever, you want to let us know between now and the time this is published, we can make sure we put that below too.

• 2:29:30Speaker 03

  Okay, that's a good idea.

• 2:29:30Danny Jones?

  So, yeah.

• 2:29:31Speaker 03

  Thanks.

• 2:29:32Danny Jones?

  Perfect. Yeah, thanks again, man. I really appreciate it.

• 2:29:34Speaker 03

  It's my pleasure.

• 2:29:35Danny Jones?

  All right, good night, folks.