280. Idaho Murders A-Z

In this episode, Payton and Garrett delve into the chilling case that shook the quiet town of Moscow, Idaho, the brutal murders of Madison Mogen, Kaylee Goncalves, Xana Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin. Links: Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/murderwithmyhusband NEW COLORING BOOK MERCH: https://mwmhshop.com Discount Codes: https://mailchi.mp/c6f48670aeac/oh-no-media-discount-codes Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/themwmh Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/murderwithmyhusband/ Watch on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@murderwithmyhusband Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/into-the-dark/id1662304327 Listen on spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/36SDVKB2MEWpFGVs9kRgQ7?si=f5224c9fd99542a7 Case Sources: NYTimes.com - https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/25/us/idaho-murders-bryan-kohberger-dna.html CNN.com - https://www.cnn.com/2025/03/10/us/idaho-killings-bryan-kohberger-dna-wwk ABCNews.go.com - https://abcnews.go.com/US/idaho-killings-latest-motive-unknown-new-information-former/story?id=124030822 People.com - https://people.com/idaho-murder-suspect-bryan-kohberger-11730739 Independent.co.uk - https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/crime/idaho-murders-bryan-kohberger-confession-why-b2795782.html NewsWeek.com - https://www.newsweek.com/bryan-kohberger-past-job-fish-cutter-1785013 Facts.net - https://facts.net/history/people/13-facts-about-bryan-kohberger/ NYPost.com - https://nypost.com/2023/06/06/bryan-kohberger-once-bragged-about-boxing-routine-weight-loss-and-speaking-skills-in-job-application/https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/the-key-evidence-that-linked-bryan-kohberger-to-the-murders-of-4-idaho-students PBS.org - https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/the-key-evidence-that-linked-bryan-kohberger-to-the-murders-of-4-idaho-students CBSNews.com - https://www.cbsnews.com/news/idaho-murders-suspect-bryan-kohberger-selfie-evidence-bushy-eyebrows/ King5.com - https://www.king5.com/article/news/crime/kohberger-trial-idaho-murders/everything-we-learned-bryan-kohberger-motive-sentencing/281-501aaf8e-1a75-4594-ba90-97cd3150742b NBCNews.com - https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/judge-denies-bryan-kohberger-motions-exclude-key-dna-evidence-trial-rcna192952 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:29Speaker 01

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• 1:00Payton Moreland?

  You're listening to an Ono Media Podcast. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder with My Husband. I'm Payton Moreland.

• 1:06Garrett Moreland?

  And I'm Garrett Moreland.

• 1:07Payton Moreland?

  And he's the husband.

• 1:08Garrett Moreland?

  And I'm the husband.

• 1:09Payton Moreland?

  I have the most super exciting, fun news for you. When Garrett told me that he was designing Murder with My Husband hats, I was like, well, I want to design something too. That would be fun. So I began working on a Murder with My Husband coloring book. And if you know me at all, you know that I love coloring. I'm a little connoisseur. I'm not actually very artistic, but I do enjoy coloring. And so I've been working on this book. It's basically a journey with Garrett, Daisy, and I, trying to solve a mystery. That's kind of like the story of the coloring book. I made it kind of bold, so it's easy to color. It's not front and back, so you can use markers on the other

• 1:53Payton Moreland?

  side if you want. You could get it for your kids. You can get it for you. Honestly, it's just super cute. Daisy is so cute as a little detective with her little spy glass. It's adorable. But yeah, so those are available now. If you want to go check it out.

• 2:07Garrett Moreland?

  There will be links everywhere you can check it out. It's really cute. Peyton did a good job. You guys should go check it out.

• 2:13Payton Moreland?

  It comes with colored pencils.

• 2:14Garrett Moreland?

  It does come with some colored pencils. You can use markers as well. She made it one-sided, so that you can put something behind it, so nothing will bleed through. Really cute. Go check it out. There'll be links everywhere. Yeah, I'm proud of her.

• 2:28Payton Moreland?

  Honestly, it's kind of just silly and little, but it's so cute and fun. I had fun doing it.

• 2:33Garrett Moreland?

  It's really cute. If you're listening and you're thinking about turning the episode off right now, you are not going to want to because we have something that has been highly requested. The last year, I would say, um, you're not going to want to miss this, but first, um, I guess I have my 10 seconds. I can't remember. Did I say, oh, no, I don't think I've said this yet. I nared my, my upper body the other day.

• 3:01Garrett Moreland?

  And I've never used nair on my upper body, just like I've done it once before on my legs. Um, I grow a lot of hair on my legs and you guys might think, oh my gosh, do you? No, like I look like a bear. Do I not?

• 3:16Payton Moreland?

  Yep.

• 3:16Garrett Moreland?

  Like I grow some crazy hair on my legs. So like two times a year on there, my legs start fresh. First time I decided to near my body, I didn't know that I couldn't put it on my boobs.

• 3:31Payton Moreland?

  Nipples.

• 3:32Garrett Moreland?

  Can I say nipples?

• 3:33Payton Moreland?

  Yes.

• 3:34Garrett Moreland?

  All right. I didn't know that I couldn't put an air on my nipples. I burnt, I burnt my freaking nipples. Hurt. I had to go play pickleball the next day and I had to put Band-Aids on my nipples and anyways, if you are listening to this or watching this, do not put an air on your nipples. It's not worth it and it's ineffective.

• 3:55Payton Moreland?

  But it does work on your chest.

• 3:57Garrett Moreland?

  But it did work on my chest. That was fine. Like it didn't burn any other part of my body. Just something new I learned, just in case anyone else was curious, I did it for you. So don't do it. That's my 10 seconds. Nothing too crazy. I think based off of that, we're ready to hop into this case. Everyone should know or have heard some information about this. I just know what I've seen on social media. So this will be a good, uh, I guess summary, um, somewhat detailed summary of everything from A to B.

• 4:29Payton Moreland?

  A to Z.

• 4:30Garrett Moreland?

  A to Z.

• 4:32Garrett Moreland?

  I meant A to Z from A to Z and all right, I'll hand it over to Peyton.

• 4:38Payton Moreland?

  Yo, Garrett's not scripted. If you know, he just, he just, he comes out here.

• 4:43Garrett Moreland?

  I'd just be talking, man.

• 4:43Payton Moreland?

  He just talks. Okay. And he does a really good job.

• 4:46Garrett Moreland?

  I'm just a talker. I'm, I, I would say that I'm pretty decent at talking. Put me in front of like a million people. I'll talk.

• 4:53Payton Moreland?

  Honestly.

• 4:54Garrett Moreland?

  Doesn't bother me.

• 4:55Payton Moreland?

  Uh, there was, I think during our live shows, there was a moment where Garrett would talk and then I would have to react. His job is not as easy as it looks. And I don't know if it's because I'm just so used to telling the story.

• 5:08Garrett Moreland?

  Look, I've never claimed to be a fighter.

• 5:12Payton Moreland?

  I never said I was a fighter.

• 5:13Garrett Moreland?

  Never said I was a fighter.

• 5:15Payton Moreland?

  All right. Like Garrett said, this has been highly requested and I think it just, we had to do it considering that Idaho was kind of a hot topic for us when we first started the show. Our sources for this episode are newyorktimes.com, cnn.com, abcnews.go.com, people.com, independent.co.uk, newsweek.com, fax.net, newyorkpost.com, pbs.org, cbsnews.com, kingfive.com and nbcnews.com. Madison Mogen, Kaylee Gonzalez, Xana Kernodle, Ethan Chapin. These were the four young college students whose lives were taken on November 13th,

• 5:56Payton Moreland?

  2022, right outside of the University of Idaho campus. All because of one cold blooded killer, a 28 year old man named Brian Coburger. This case has been all over the place. It has been discussed. There have been many rumors, gossip, disrespect towards the victims and their families. But if there's one thing, as this case has wrapped up this year that is left, it's a lot of unanswered questions, honestly, about the entire case, even though we supposedly have the answers. And that is what we are going to address today. On July 2nd, 2025, three years after the murders.

• 6:44Payton Moreland?

  Koberger pleaded guilty to all four murders which landed him behind bars for the rest of his life. But this plea deal meant he didn't have to answer many of the pressing questions. What was the motive? Why these four victims? And what might have happened if he stood trial after all? Today, I'm going to walk you through the case and then the evidence that would have come out in court and the new updates and information that has been released since Brian's sentencing.

• 7:17Garrett Moreland?

  And there might even be some other information we're missing. I mean, because it seems like there's more stuff coming out each day. We tried to make this as recent as possible. So if there is some things that are missing, sorry, the way it is.

• 7:31Payton Moreland?

  We are really just going to try to unravel what really went on in the mind of Brian Koberger. So we're going to back up. It is Saturday, November 12th, 2022. It is just another weekend in the small town of Moscow, Idaho. The students at the University of Idaho are looking to blow off some steam, get a little partying and fun in before they all return home for Thanksgiving break. One of them was a 21-year-old senior from Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, named Madison Mogen, or Maddie, as her friends called her. Now Maddie was studying marketing and was a member of a sorority.

• 8:15Payton Moreland?

  She was a gentle, warm-hearted girl who was loyal and worked hard to maintain her friendships and connections to her family, including her friend who she had been close to since the sixth grade, who also happened to be her former roommate, 21-year-old Kaylee Gonzalez. Now Kaylee was originally from Rathdrom, Idaho, though she eventually had plans to move to Austin, Texas after graduation, and she also was planning to get a marketing job there. Kaylee was also part of a sorority. She was in a different sorority, though, from Madison and her Other roommate, 20-year-old Zanna Carnotl.

• 8:57Payton Moreland?

  So now we have three roommates, Maddie, Kaylee, and Zanna. Zanna and Maddie were sorority sisters. Zanna had grown up in Idaho too, but she had also spent some of her childhood in Arizona. Her father described her as strong-willed and independent, but she also had fallen hard for another college student, a handsome freshman, 20-year-old Ethan Chapin. Ethan, one of three triplets with a brother and a sister, came from Conway, Washington. He was in a fraternity and as a former basketball player, decided to major in recreation, sport, and tourism management.

• 9:38Payton Moreland?

  So all four of these college students seemed incredibly social and outgoing, loving their college life and dreaming of all the possibilities that the future might hold for them. They had no idea, though, that November 12th would be their last night to celebrate. That evening, Zanna and Ethan went to a party at his fraternity house. This was actually just a short walk from the house on King Road where these girls lived, Zanna, Kaylee, and Maddie. And they actually had two other female roommates that lived in the house on King Road with them, 21-year-old Dylan Mortensen and Bethany Funk.

• 10:23Payton Moreland?

  So Dylan, Bethany, Kaylee, Maddie, and Zanna, all living together at this house on King Road while going to college. Now, as Zanna and Ethan are at the party at the fraternity house, Maddie and Kaylee were off at a sports bar in Moscow called The Corner Club, which they actually got to around 10:00 PM that night. Kaylee had moved out of the house that she shared with the girls pretty recently, so she had been living there during college, but she had just moved out, but was actually back that night to hang out with her former roommates, and she was planning to stay the night at her former-

• 11:04Payton Moreland?

  So right before that, Kaylee even uploaded a picture to her Instagram, reading, quote, "One lucky girl to be surrounded by these people every day." And it's kind of a picture that has gone viral because it has all of the victims in it together. Now Bethany and Dylan, the other two roommates, also went out drinking that night and they returned home around 1:00 a.m. Kaylee and Maddie stopped at a food truck and called a car, getting home at around 1:56 a.m. And then meanwhile, Ethan went back to the house with Xana to spend the night with her at the house, getting home around the same time as Kaylee and Maddie.

• 11:49Payton Moreland?

  So almost everyone is back home by 2:00 a.m.

• 11:52Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 11:53Payton Moreland?

  But around 4:00 a.m. that night, Dylan, whose room was on the same floor as Xana's, woke up to a strange sound. Now, just to set up the layout of the house for you, because it kind of is important for the story. There are three floors in total in this house at King Road. Now, on the first floor is where Bethany Funk's bedroom is, okay? Only her bedroom's on the first. The second floor is where Xana and Dylan's bedrooms are.

• 12:32Payton Moreland?

  And then the third is where Maddie's bedroom is, as well as where Kaylee's was before she moved out. Now, that morning around 4:00 a.m., Dylan thinks she can hear, she wakes up and she thinks she can hear what sounds like Kaylee maybe playing with a dog on the floor above her, so on the third floor. And then she thinks she hears either Kaylee or Maddie say something like, "There's someone here." She also says she heard what she thought was crying, eventually coming from Xana's room, down the hall from hers, followed by a male voice saying, "It's okay, I'm going to help you."

• 13:15Payton Moreland?

  So she wakes up at 4:00 a.m. and is like, "What is going on in the house?" She's spooked, she's scared. She decides it's gotten to a point where she's going to stand up and peek out her bedroom door to just kind of... See what's going on. So she sticks her head out her bedroom door. And that's when she sees a man in all black clothing and a ski mask. Walk past her toward a sliding glass door near the rear side of the house. And it is during this time that that man turns and makes eye contact with Dylan.

• 13:54Payton Moreland?

  So Dylan says they make eye contact and she sees that he's a white man with a big nose and bushy eyebrows. And that he's holding some type of quote, small vacuum type of object. Remember it is nighttime. She is just woke up. She's trying to grasp what's going on. So Dylan, a little scared, but like the guy didn't hurt her and she doesn't hear anything going on. Goes back into her room and calls Bethany Funk. This is the roommate that she was out with earlier, who is asleep on the floor below hers. And she says, Hey, I was hearing noises. I, I just think I saw someone dressed in all black, like wandering through the house.

• 14:38Payton Moreland?

  Bethany's like, really? Did you say anything? And she's like, no, I'm just so like, she's scared. She's telling Bethany that she's scared. So Bethany says, Hey, just like run downstairs, just come to my room. And Dylan does. So they get down and they're trying to decide what to do. No one in their right mind believes that their roommates have just been murdered. And that they're sitting here alive in the house.

• 15:00Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, this case is a little different because I know bits and pieces of it. And I know there's been a lot of speculation and opinions and thoughts and

• 15:10Payton Moreland?

  Judgment.

• 15:10Garrett Moreland?

  Judgment. And it's hard because I try to think back when I was in college, I had six roommates for a while. And then I had eight roommates for a while. There's a lot of stuff going on in the house. There's a lot of noises. There's a lot of crap. Also, I, especially in college, I don't think you ever think, oh, there's a random person in our house right now.

• 15:31Payton Moreland?

  Murdering.

• 15:32Garrett Moreland?

  Murdering people like. I don't know. I insane. Like honestly, it's out of this world to even think of something to even think that something like that can happen.

• 15:44Payton Moreland?

  I mean, there were times where I would come out of my room and there would be a boy I had never seen before in my house, in my dorm room. You know what I mean? Like, I think sometimes people forget that college life at times can be very just like in and out strangers all the time. You're constantly meeting new people. Now, granted, if she was like in her family home and there was a man standing there in a ski mask, she would probably be like, we have an intruder.

• 16:09Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, yeah. She'd probably call her parents and be like, what the heck is going on?

• 16:13Payton Moreland?

  I also want to note that it is 2022. So we are only about a year and a half out of COVID. So people wearing masks really wasn't that like uncommon of a sight. If like, sure, it's not 2020, but still, I mean, if I see a person in a mask now, I don't really question it.

• 16:32Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 16:33Speaker 04

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• 16:59Payton Moreland?

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• 17:44Payton Moreland?

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• 18:26Payton Moreland?

  So I think in, in her gut, she definitely has, she's spooked. Like, she's like, "I don't understand what's happening." She does not believe that her roommates are, were just murdered. I think that's safe to say.

• 18:37Garrett Moreland?

  Insane.

• 18:39Payton Moreland?

  So, they are together in the downstairs room. They're trying to figure out what is going on. So they try calling their roommates' phones. It's 4:00 a.m. No one answers. They don't panic, though, because they figure a couple of things. Dylan only saw, like, a strange man. It's not like she saw any of her other roommates awake and walking around. It is 4:00 a.m. They might be asleep, they might not be answering their phone. And two, they decide together that the man walking through the house was probably just one of Ethan's frat brothers, who had come over, maybe playing like a joke on Xana and Ethan or something. That is what they come up with, because Ethan is there, and he has a whole bunch of frat brothers.

• 19:23Payton Moreland?

  Dylan also thinks she might just be entirely mistaken, since she was drinking the night before. I think it's really easy that, once they were together, to talk each other down off the ledge, find some peace and comfort, and they both finally fall back asleep. Now, the next morning, around 11:00 a.m., which seems late, but I mean, these, they were out till 2:00, or awake till 2:00, then awake at 4:00. So around 11:00 a.m., Bethany wakes up. And she notices no one else in the house is up yet, except for her and Dylan. So at this point, they're like, wait, they're still not up. So they start sending some text messages to the other roommates via text and Snapchat.

• 20:08Payton Moreland?

  But there is still no answer from any of their roommates. And it's around that time that they realize Xana's location is off on her phone. Which is weird, like they're checking for the location. They realize hers is off. So they decide to walk up and just peek in through Xana's door. And it's at this point that they see Xana passed out on the floor in her underwear and sweatshirt. But that's all they see before they get freaked out and leave the house. They are like, something is definitely wrong here. We, we need to not be in here. We need help. So at this point, they call two other friends over to help them with the situation.

• 20:50Payton Moreland?

  The people they call is Emily Alant and her boyfriend Hunter Johnson. Now they come over and Hunter goes in the house. They're like, hey, you are a boy and we think you can handle this. So Hunter goes into the house and he walks up to the second floor to Xana's bedroom. And he also sees Xana passed out on the floor. And he actually rushes back outside the house and says, we just need to call 911. Something's going on.

• 21:23Garrett Moreland?

  So, okay, they didn't see blood yet?

• 21:27Payton Moreland?

  No, no, they haven't even walked into the bedroom, let alone gone up to the third floor. They are just so spooked and freaked out.

• 21:36Garrett Moreland?

  I'm not questioning anything. I'm just curious. At this point, wouldn't it smell a little bit?

• 21:40Payton Moreland?

  I don't think yet.

• 21:42Garrett Moreland?

  Cause it's been all night?

• 21:44Payton Moreland?

  I mean, since.

• 21:46Garrett Moreland?

  I guess like six hours, seven hours.

• 21:48Payton Moreland?

  I don't think it would yet.

• 21:49Garrett Moreland?

  Okay, okay.

• 21:50Payton Moreland?

  But I think it was obviously eerie enough. I mean, it takes a lot for a group of college kids to decide to get serious and call the police.

• 22:00Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, I get that. Yeah. So I agree. I mean, I.

• 22:04Payton Moreland?

  I think it's, I think it is reasonable that people were quick to be like, why did it take so long to call the cops? I think that's reasonable.

• 22:13Garrett Moreland?

  I think so too. I mean, I, I mean, when I was involved in a hit and run and I called the cops, they basically told me, oh, it sucks, man. Sorry. Like, okay, I'm probably not gonna call the cops again.

• 22:25Payton Moreland?

  But I also think people don't take into consideration the fact that these people are in college.

• 22:32Garrett Moreland?

  For sure.

• 22:32Payton Moreland?

  They constantly live this in and out, just party life. Nothing's really that serious. Like, you have to take into account that this isn't a family in a suburban area.

• 22:43Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 22:43Payton Moreland?

  That sees one of their siblings on the floor.

• 22:47Garrett Moreland?

  Yes.

• 22:47Payton Moreland?

  So, the group of kids calls 911 just after 11:55 a.m. that morning. They frantically tell the dispatcher that something bad had happened at their house, and one of their roommates got drunk the night before, and now she's unconscious and she hasn't woken up. And they really don't think she's breathing. But when the police arrive a few minutes later, they find something far worse than any of them expected. And I think this is also a point in the case that has bothered the public, that the 911 call came in as one

• 23:28Payton Moreland?

  of their roommates passed out, maybe struggling to breathe, when in reality, it was.

• 23:35Garrett Moreland?

  They were dead.

• 23:36Payton Moreland?

  Four homicides, like brutal, bloody homicides. Like, where does that miscommunication come in? But again, hopefully now that I've broke down the story for you, you can understand how these events actually unfolded and kind of make sense.

• 23:50Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, I can't really judge. Like, obviously, I mean, I have questions and thoughts. I can't judge because, one, I've never been in this situation, and two, it's, dude, four people were just killed. Like, I don't know how, it's insane.

• 24:03Payton Moreland?

  Also. Dylan and Bethany, they have enough guilt. They don't need you to put it on it. I promise you

• 24:10Garrett Moreland?

  I promise they already hate themselves enough right now, like.

• 24:14Payton Moreland?

  They just need love and support and validation and understanding at this point because they have gone through hell. And honestly, the public's involvement in this case have only made their lives worse.

• 24:26Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 24:27Payton Moreland?

  After going through this horrid experience, so.

• 24:29Garrett Moreland?

  And I think after like, learning more about it, we're going to continue to get into it, but learning more about it and the trial and so on and then so forth, you realize.

• 24:40Payton Moreland?

  They did what they thought was right.

• 24:42Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 24:42Payton Moreland?

  They didn't do anything.

• 24:44Garrett Moreland?

  Anyway, sorry, sorry. I can keep going.

• 24:45Payton Moreland?

  So, police arrive to this, like basically on college campus to this house where there's a different roommate in each bedroom. And they discover Xana Kernodle dead on the floor of her bedroom. She's not passed out like they had thought. She is dead and.

• 25:08Garrett Moreland?

  So sad.

• 25:08Payton Moreland?

  Xana has been stabbed 50 times. Very brutal.

• 25:15Garrett Moreland?

  Wait, what?

• 25:16Payton Moreland?

  50 times. She's on the floor of her bedroom, stabbed 50 times. Her boyfriend.

• 25:22Garrett Moreland?

  Okay, wait. I mean, I don't know what I can ask. Not, no, no one heard, obviously.

• 25:27Payton Moreland?

  No, they, what Dylan has said, what she's told police is all we know about the noises and Bethany claims to not have heard anything. So.

• 25:39Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 25:40Payton Moreland?

  It is hard to wrap your mind around, but I don't believe that they.

• 25:44Garrett Moreland?

  Did you say anything about it being loud in the house that night?

• 25:47Payton Moreland?

  Yeah, she thought they were playing with a dog because they do, they did, one of the roommates did have a dog. So they thought like the stomping around and running and playing was with a dog.

• 25:56Garrett Moreland?

  50 times? Oh my gosh.

• 25:59Payton Moreland?

  But then she heard what she thought was her roommate saying, we think there's someone here. And then she heard a man say, don't worry. And so she got up to look.

• 26:08Garrett Moreland?

  Oh my gosh, you're telling me that this guy, first of all, killed four people, stabbed one of them 50 times. Okay.

• 26:16Payton Moreland?

  So her boyfriend Ethan had also been stabbed multiple times with one lethal blow to his jugular vein. So police discover this couple dead in Xana's bedroom. Then they continue moving up the house because they know that there are two other girls in this house that they haven't heard from. So they go up to Maddie's room and they find Kaylee and Maddie both in Maddie's room in her bed. They could have slept in different rooms, but that night they happened to both be in Maddie's room.

• 26:50Garrett Moreland?

  I'm sorry, I'm gonna have questions and I'm sure they're the same questions you guys have. Was there not a bunch of screaming and yelling? Not according to-

• 26:57Payton Moreland?

  Not according to anyone. There has been neighbor footage of like moaning. Like maybe there was some moaning or grunting. There was no like outright screaming.

• 27:08Garrett Moreland?

  If there's, if neighbors can hear that?

• 27:10Payton Moreland?

  It was on like the neighboring, so there's the wall of the house. And then the neighbor's front door was right there and the ring doorbell could hear it.

• 27:18Garrett Moreland?

  I feel like that has to be pretty loud, right?

• 27:21Payton Moreland?

  I mean, it woke her up and got her out of bed. So it was loud enough that it got her out of bed.

• 27:28Garrett Moreland?

  I'm just asking questions. I'm not putting blame. I'm just, I'm genuinely curious on what the freak happened.

• 27:34Payton Moreland?

  Well, these are the questions-

• 27:36Garrett Moreland?

  That everyone had?

• 27:37Payton Moreland?

  That everyone has because they're like, if he would just think about anyone other than himself and explain what happened that night, we might have answers to this. Because he could say, oh, none of them screamed or this or that. You know what I mean?

• 27:55Garrett Moreland?

  He's not gonna say that. He's a, said this, yeah, he's not gonna say that.

• 27:59Payton Moreland?

  Right.

• 27:59Garrett Moreland?

  He's a narcissist. Well, there's, he's a lot of words, but-

• 28:01Payton Moreland?

  So both of these girls have been stabbed to death as well. Kaylee has been stabbed over 34 times.

• 28:08Garrett Moreland?

  Oh my-

• 28:09Payton Moreland?

  Her face was unrecognizable while Maddie's total is actually not specified.

• 28:16Garrett Moreland?

  Okay. I can't keep interrupting, but between just three people, it sounds like over a hundred times. How do you stab someone that many times?

• 28:26Payton Moreland?

  Rage. Adrenaline.

• 28:31Payton Moreland?

  They were far dead. They were already dead.

• 28:32Garrett Moreland?

  By the way, we're just gonna send them to prison for life, so.

• 28:35Payton Moreland?

  So, um, the autopsy is performed on November 17th. The results show that all four victims were attacked with a large knife and that their wounds were very extensive. The autopsy shows that Xana did fight back. So when putting together the timeline of the investigation, because police are like, who was killed first? What happened here? Why did Dylan and Bethany not hear screaming? Like, what happened here to make this so seamless and fast? And, but Xana has defensive wounds. So, police discover that Xana had ordered food through the DoorDash app

• 29:17Payton Moreland?

  that was delivered around 4 a.m. They believe that Xana and Coburger had either just missed each other in the house, walking through the house while she went to pick up her DoorDash, and then she heard the commotion and that's why she was even out of bed when she was murdered. Either way, these timelines are very creepy because there are people moving through this house and we're not sure when they encountered each other. They do, though, suspect that Maddie, Kaylee, and Ethan were asleep at the time of their attacks, which would make sense why it was more quiet because for two of those victims.

• 30:00Garrett Moreland?

  They were basically sleeping.

• 30:01Payton Moreland?

  They were basically asleep. I mean, and then you can kind of, you don't have to, like, finish attacking one to get to the other. You can move back and forth to try to subdue one. You know what I mean? So maybe that is why it was so quiet.

• 30:15Garrett Moreland?

  This is horrible, man. This is horrible.

• 30:17Payton Moreland?

  It's awful. It is awful. They find, though, that there has been no evidence of sexual assault with any of the victims. Still, investigators feel confident that this was a targeted attack, not completely random. And for the next several weeks, police speak with anyone and everyone who might have had a connection to the victims, including anyone who was spotted with them earlier that night while they were. Out, but they release little to no updates about the case. And this is the point where you probably heard about the case. We heard about it. I definitely heard about it because I'm from Idaho. Everyone was talking about it. Four college students like brutally stabbed to death in their home with two surviving roommates.

• 31:01Payton Moreland?

  The case itself just, it went viral.

• 31:03Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 31:04Payton Moreland?

  It spread. No one really knew what happened. Now, I am going to say seven weeks after the murders, police made an arrest. A week before they arrested Brian Koberger, I was sent court records showing that police had a suspect and the evidence that they had against him that was going to lead to an arrest. But I couldn't say anything because it hadn't been made public.

• 31:35Garrett Moreland?

  Just so you guys know, we could have leaked that information before anyone else, but we didn't. We could have sold that shiz to TMZ, made a lot of money, but guess what? We didn't.

• 31:46Payton Moreland?

  If you're wondering how I got it, sources.

• 31:50Garrett Moreland?

  You know, we can't, we never give up our sources. So just an FYI out there. FYI, if anyone ever sends us anything, we'll, we'll snitches, get stitches and we're not snitches.

• 32:00Payton Moreland?

  It was weird though, to like, have read this entire court document. It was long. Understand that they have a suspect, that they had evidence and then get online and see people being like, the police aren't doing anything. There's nothing going on. And thinking, oh my gosh, they've been investigating this entire time and have kept it away from the public and literally are about to make an arrest.

• 32:24Garrett Moreland?

  We should have just said, we should have just leaked it. It would have been kind of cool.

• 32:28Payton Moreland?

  So seven weeks after the murders.

• 32:29Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 32:30Payton Moreland?

  Police make an arrest.

• 32:31Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 32:31Payton Moreland?

  The person they arrest, Brian Christopher Koberger, a 28 year old grad student at Washington State University. This is a different college than the victim's college, but it's actually just 10 minutes away from the Idaho campus. So it's basically just two colleges that share the same.

• 32:50Garrett Moreland?

  And if we're arresting people just based off looks, you, we got the right guy.

• 32:55Payton Moreland?

  His eyes are very dead.

• 32:57Garrett Moreland?

  We've got the right guy.

• 32:58Payton Moreland?

  Very dead. On December 30th, 2022, he's arrested at his parents' home, but it's not in Idaho. It's in Pennsylvania. They went across the United States to arrest him, and he was charged with four counts of first degree murder. Now, let's get a little bit of background on Brian. I wouldn't be spotlighting this if it didn't have some impact on the case. All right, guys, we are jumping into an ad, and it is for Wayfair. For all things hosting, Wayfair delivers high-quality, customer-trusted products for your home so you can host and celebrate without the stress, which is so, so important with the holidays coming up.

• 33:43Payton Moreland?

  Wayfair helps you create a home that stands up to real life with quality products, great value, and trusted reviews. Products are high-vetted by product specialists using a 10-point quality inspection, and you can shop thousands of products across every style and budget, whether you're simply replacing an appliance or transforming your home from top to bottom for the holiday season. And honestly, it's not just, you know, the little cute corduroy couch I just bought, but it's also they have verified Christmas trees, they have holiday sales going on, fireside faves, space-saving party picks, like, anything that you're looking for, you're gonna find over on Wayfair. And when refreshing

• 34:27Payton Moreland?

  your home this holiday season, Wayfair delivers exactly what you need. Head to wayfair.com to shop all things homes. That's wayfair, W-A-Y-F-A-I-R dot com.

• 34:38Speaker 05

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• 34:41Payton Moreland?

  All right, guys, we are jumping into an ad, and it is one of my favorites, Quince. If you've listened to the show at all, you know how much I love Quince. Quince is not just a clothing store, okay, guys? They have quality everything at this point. I actually just ordered some skincare. From Quince because here's the one thing about Quince. I love that they have kind of just excluded the middlemen. And so they pass those savings on to you. So you're getting really good quality luxury pieces at a more affordable price. Again, like I just said, they have so much on there. I have shoes, I have bags, I have luggage, I have scarves. I just ordered skincare.

• 35:26Payton Moreland?

  I ordered some baby onesies and baby products from them. Honestly, they have everything. It's one of my favorite places to online shop. So if you like to browse like I do, go to Quince right now. Look around, check it out. I am promising you amazing quality. Give the gift of quality this holiday season. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. And then guys, when Quince asks after checkout where you heard about them, please just let them know it was murder with my husband that sent you. Please don't skip that survey. Let them know it's the best way to support the show. So he had a bachelor's degree in psychology.

• 36:10Garrett Moreland?

  Wow.

• 36:10Payton Moreland?

  From a university in Pennsylvania. And in the fall of 2022, he had begun studying his master's in criminal justice across the United States at Washington State. Criminal justice and psychology.

• 36:24Garrett Moreland?

  That's ironic.

• 36:26Payton Moreland?

  Prior to his arrest, he had worked as a security officer for a school in Pennsylvania where his mother was employed. And he had recently just interviewed for a graduate research assistant position with the Pullman Police Department near his campus. So it's safe to say this guy had a clear interest in being some sort of police officer or someone who held a position of power. Now digging a little further back, it was clear. Koberger was troubled long before entering college. You don't do what he did without being haunted. So all the way back to his teenage years, Koberger had written a post online about his struggle.

• 37:07Payton Moreland?

  with suicidal thoughts dissociation and his lack of emotion and feelings of remorse basically online saying like I'm fear that I'm a psychopath apparently he also dealt with depression and according to people who knew him in high school he had a history of abusing heroin and kind of just like having a lack of empathy but it was during his graduate studies that things really seemed to amplify for Coburger like maybe he was trying to hold off this I'm gonna be the killer narrative and was trying to go well I'll still be involved in crime because it really interests me but I'll be a police officer seems like when he moved to Idaho

• 37:50Payton Moreland?

  Washington he was like you know what actually I'm just gonna go full force serial killer like I'm gonna finally give in to the dark side of me insane so in the months before the murders he posted something on Reddit asking formerly incarcerated people to take a survey he wanted to know their quote thoughts emotions and actions from the beginning to end of the crime commission process he said it was part of a research project to quote understand how emotions and psychological traits influence decision making when committing a crime another classmate of his said he recalled just a few days before the murders were committed Coburger became very

• 38:31Payton Moreland?

  curious about forensics DNA and other evidence that prosecutors could use to get a conviction in court and even more terrifying just prior to the crime Coburger had been chatting with a woman he met on Tinder and when they began talking about horror movies he asked her what she thought the worst way to die would be and she said I think being stabbed to death Coburger responded to this woman something to the effect of a K bar which is a fixed blade knife like he specified the type of knife and sure enough what was found at the scene of the crime

• 39:14Payton Moreland?

  Not the weapon itself, but a sheath to a K bar knife.

• 39:19Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 39:20Payton Moreland?

  So there was quite a bit of evidence pointing to Brian Koberger circumstantially, which meant things weren't looking good for him leading up to his trial. In fact, more damning evidence against him came out as trial was leading up. And on June 26th, 2023, the prosecution announced that they would be pursuing the death penalty, which is a big deal because the state of Idaho hasn't carried out an execution since 2012. So Koberger's attorneys tried to block that by saying he had been diagnosed with a form of autism, he should be exempt from execution due to the constitution's prohibition on cruel and unusual punishment.

• 40:04Payton Moreland?

  But in November of 2024, the judge said, no way, absolutely not. The motion stands and the prosecution will be able to pursue the death penalty if Koberger is convicted.

• 40:15Garrett Moreland?

  Cruel and unusual punishment? How ironic is that?

• 40:18Payton Moreland?

  Yeah, and honestly, like-

• 40:19Garrett Moreland?

  Or hypocritical, whatever you want to-

• 40:21Payton Moreland?

  If you're talking death penalty cases, killing four random people for fun, stabbing them-

• 40:26Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 40:26Payton Moreland?

  That amount of times in a rage-

• 40:28Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, that probably-

• 40:28Payton Moreland?

  That feels pretty much like you are for sure a danger to society. There was no motive, like-

• 40:35Garrett Moreland?

  I feel like we should do like, uh, instead of like a trial, we should just do like a USA vote. Like whenever something-

• 40:41Payton Moreland?

  Ballots?

• 40:42Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, whenever something like this happens, we post a poll on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok. Um, everyone votes and whatever the choice that is chosen is the choice that is made. I just, I don't know. I think that's a pretty dang good idea and keep going.

• 41:00Payton Moreland?

  So you're leaving it all to the owners of those companies to decide because they can sway those votes? You um, lie about them.

• 41:08Garrett Moreland?

  Okay, well then we'll just, we'll have to do the vote somewhere else. But I still think it should be up for the public to make that decision.

• 41:15Payton Moreland?

  I mean, it is kinda the jury.

• 41:17Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, but you know.

• 41:18Payton Moreland?

  At this point, Brian's team starts reassessing their strategy. Jury selection was scheduled to begin on August 4th, 2025. Now, remember, these murders happened in 2022 and he was arrested in 2022. So it's been three years of back and forth, trying to figure out how to get to trial, gathering evidence, appeals, like delays.

• 41:40Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 41:41Payton Moreland?

  But a month before, on July 2nd, this year, Koberger appeared at a hearing and announced, "Never mind, I'm pleading guilty to burglary and four counts of first degree murder."

• 41:53Garrett Moreland?

  So I assume it's because he was probably gonna get the death penalty?

• 41:57Payton Moreland?

  Yes, and he wanted just life in prison. So they gave him a plea.

• 42:00Garrett Moreland?

  You know, Brian, I'm really glad that you wanted to live.

• 42:03Payton Moreland?

  So.

• 42:03Garrett Moreland?

  And that you got the choice to live.

• 42:06Payton Moreland?

  I think it probably matters most what the victims' families felt about this. And it was split. Some didn't wanna go through a trial, some felt like this wasn't justice.

• 42:16Garrett Moreland?

  I get that, yeah.

• 42:17Payton Moreland?

  In making that plea, that means that he did not, in a court, or the public, or the victims' families, have to give a motive or any sort of statement or story regarding that night and why he did what he did. In fact, the judge actually gave him an opportunity to address the court and be like, "Hey, is there anything that you would like to do to try to maybe answer some questions?" And he said, quote, "I respectfully decline."

• 42:54Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 42:54Payton Moreland?

  And that's that. On July 23rd, 30-year-old Brian Koberger was sentenced to four consecutive life sentences, therefore dodging the death penalty for his plea.

• 43:07Payton Moreland?

  But that left a lot of people unsettled. It left a lot of people answering questions. What would have been presented in court? What fate might the jury have chosen for Brian Koberger? And could it have been enough to actually land him the death penalty? Well, since Koberger didn't get a jury, I am going to present you the evidence that it's rumored would have been put forth at trial. And I'll let you decide what you would have voted if you were on the jury instead.

• 43:41Garrett Moreland?

  Give it to me.

• 43:42Payton Moreland?

  So here is our make believe trial with the evidence that the state has released to the public. Let's start with the footage that was found after the murders. About an hour after the roommates all returned to the house that night, a white car appeared on surveillance cameras around the neighborhood. Obviously, police went around to doorbell footage, security cameras, and they gathered it. And they see this white car around the house at the time of the crime. Now, their house was on a dead end street. And yet you can see a white Hyundai Elantra pass the house a few times circling the crime scene, the future crime scene that's about to happen literally that hour.

• 44:26Payton Moreland?

  Multiple times, including at 4:04 a.m. This is around the time the murders were believed to be committed.

• 44:33Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 44:34Payton Moreland?

  There is also a security camera that captures audio. This is the one I was telling you about of what sounds like whimpering, a dog barking, and then a huge thud coming from the home. This happens at 4:17 a.m. So at 4:04, this car is circling. They believe this is Brian in his car. And at 4:17, chaos begins. Shortly after that, the Elantra is seen literally speeding away from this house at four in the morning, like ripping it, tires squealing. And it's in the direction of the Washington State University campus. So where he would be returning to.

• 45:13Payton Moreland?

  And around the 29th of November, police tracked this car to a WSU student named Brian Coburger. So this is how he kind of first comes up on their radar. So now that the police had his name, they look up his record. They found that he had actually been pulled over in Moscow, Idaho back in August. And during that traffic stop, he had given the officer his cellphone number. So the police are like, we have a cellphone number, which in turn allows them to track where his cellphone was at the time of the murders by accessing his records. Easy enough to get a warrant for that. Once you've seen his car on footage.

• 45:54Payton Moreland?

  And with that, they also pull up Coburger's license photo. And sure enough, they find he is a white guy with bushy eyebrows. Looks a lot like the person Dylan Mortensen described seeing in the house that night. Oh, and by the way, they also discover Coburger had gotten a new license plate for his car five days after the murders were committed.

• 46:16Garrett Moreland?

  Give me a break, man.

• 46:18Payton Moreland?

  Now let's move on to that location data from his cellphone, because this certainly would have came up in court as well. So after receiving Coburger's cell records, police learned that his cellphone was actually turned off, beginning at 2:47 a.m. the morning of the murders. So we know someone was awake on his phone, turning it off around 3 a.m. And its last location that it pinged was in Pullman, Washington, near his campus. Then someone was awake and the phone mysteriously turned back on at 4:48 a.m. shortly after the suspected time of the murders. And now the phone is in Moscow, Idaho. So while the

• 47:02Payton Moreland?

  phone was turned off, it moved. It left its location and went towards the scene of the crime. His data also showed he returned to the area near the crime scene later that morning before the bodies were even discovered. Police and the prosecution believe he was returning, doing a drive by to the scene of the crime to see if police had been called, what had happened, was it taped off? He drives by and realizes. What's going on? I definitely saw a girl that was left alive. And there's no police here? Like she didn't call 911?

• 47:42Garrett Moreland?

  Interesting.

• 47:43Payton Moreland?

  They believe that's why he peeled out so fast because he had left someone alive. They believe he thought that police were going to be called immediately.

• 47:50Garrett Moreland?

  Well, he left two people alive.

• 47:52Payton Moreland?

  He didn't know he had left two people alive.

• 47:53Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 47:53Payton Moreland?

  He'd only seen one.

• 47:55Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 47:55Payton Moreland?

  So he does a little drive by to just check up on the case. I also want to mention around this time on his phone, he also took a selfie with a thumbs up smiling right after he brutally murdered four people. Just a little side note for you. Yeah, on his phone in his bathroom. He went home after murdering them and took that picture.

• 48:15Garrett Moreland?

  It's crazy, dude. This is crazy.

• 48:17Payton Moreland?

  So they're like, okay, this cellphone data is pretty intense. It's pretty heavy. It, it does a lot of damage to his case. Um, and so they keep digging and they learn he had actually visited the area around the home, the home of these four college students at least 23 times in the months before the murders. And when his phone would ping at the home, it was usually between the hours of 10:00 PM and 4:00 AM.

• 48:54Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 48:55Payton Moreland?

  So basically 23 times before he showed up and actually murdered. In the middle of the night, he drove by their house either.

• 49:05Garrett Moreland?

  Do we know why their house?

• 49:07Payton Moreland?

  No. So this is a big question. Was he there to only kill one person? Was his target Maddie? And then Kaylee happened to be there?

• 49:17Garrett Moreland?

  But they can't figure out a connection between them?

• 49:19Payton Moreland?

  No, there is no known connection. No one can say that he knew any of the victims.

• 49:27Garrett Moreland?

  I would assume it's two things either one he saw her in public once and followed or one of them in public or two yes like they saw him on social media and he's like oh that's the person and started stalking them.

• 49:40Payton Moreland?

  It's rumored that their house was the host house of many parties where the doors were just left open. I mean, the door was unlocked that night. So people actually believe that Brian could have possibly been in the house and like looked at the layout of the house, found whoever his intended victim's room was, or if it was everyone, like he could have definitely learned the layout of the house before the night, that night. So it seems like at least one of the roommates in the past months, Kaylee Gonzalez, actually noticed a man watching her at one point when she went out to walk her dog. This is the dog in the story is Kaylee's dog. Now, remember, Kaylee had actually moved out of the house

• 50:23Payton Moreland?

  by the night of the murders. She was literally just back there that night to visit her friends one last time. She wasn't even living there anymore.

• 50:31Garrett Moreland?

  I'm so pissed.

• 50:32Payton Moreland?

  She was ready to move on with her life. And from what I can tell, she didn't move because of a stalker, but because she was graduating early, she'd gotten a new job. But there was more information I found that showed Kaylee, Xana, and Maddie were actually all being watched by Coburger prior to their deaths. Okay, so Coburger followed all of the girls on Instagram. He had liked several of Kaylee and Xana's photos.

• 51:01Garrett Moreland?

  He definitely found them on Instagram and decided that. Hundred, I mean, yeah.

• 51:05Payton Moreland?

  Or found them in person and followed them on Instagram.

• 51:07Garrett Moreland?

  Either way, he was stalking them on social media and being a weirdo.

• 51:10Payton Moreland?

  But this is where the belief that Maddie was the intended target comes in because he had liked almost every single one of Maddie's posts and had apparently downloaded some of her photos to his devices.

• 51:24Garrett Moreland?

  That's disgusting.

• 51:25Payton Moreland?

  Kaylee had also mentioned to friends that she thought she had a stalker, that someone had mailed her something once and she was getting strange messages on Facebook.

• 51:33Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, weird.

• 51:33Payton Moreland?

  We don't know if this has a connection to him. Then on November 4th, nine days before the murders, the roommates came home to find that their front door was open and literally off the hinges. It was so bad that Xana's dad actually came over and fixed it. So just some, some unusual activity.

• 51:55Payton Moreland?

  But maybe the biggest piece of evidence in this case that you probably already know was a knife sheath that was left at the crime scene. While the knife itself was never found, the sheath was telling. It was discovered on the bed next to Matty and Kaylee's body. And it had a Marine Corps logo on it and it belonged to a K-bar knife. Now, more importantly, Forensics was able to extract DNA from the button on the snap of the sheath.

• 52:25Garrett Moreland?

  Wow, impressive.

• 52:26Payton Moreland?

  And while it didn't match anyone in any law enforcement databases, they used genetic genealogy to see if there was a match. So with help of those consumer databases like ancestry.com, they build a profile that points that whoever had done this was in the Koberger family. Now, they don't have Koberger's DNA, but they link it to his family tree.

• 52:52Garrett Moreland?

  Got it, yeah.

• 52:52Payton Moreland?

  To get an exact match, obviously, and absolutely confirm that it's their number one suspect.

• 52:58Garrett Moreland?

  They need Brian's DNA.

• 52:59Payton Moreland?

  They need a sample of his DNA. So a few days before Koberger's arrested, police collect garbage from outside his parents' home in Pennsylvania where they know Koberger had driven home and was staying at this point. They bring them back to the lab for testing and when one comes up as a direct match for what was on the sheath, investigators know they have their guy. They have Brian Koberger's DNA on the knife sheath that was left at the crime scene. That's why three days later on December 30th, they were able to finally arrest him because that's pretty obvious.

• 53:31Garrett Moreland?

  You know, if I was Brian's parents, I'd be pretty pissed if I spent all this money thinking my kid might be innocent.

• 53:37Payton Moreland?

  Some people believe that his dad knew what he had done. Cause his dad came to Idaho and drove him back to Pennsylvania after the murders.

• 53:48Garrett Moreland?

  I don't get that personally. I don't get standing up. I don't get wanting to defend your kid.

• 53:52Payton Moreland?

  Enabling.

• 53:53Garrett Moreland?

  And when it comes to something like that, it's not like, oh, he ran a red light or no, no, no. Like this is...

• 54:00Payton Moreland?

  You can love your kid while holding them accountable.

• 54:02Garrett Moreland?

  A hundred percent.

• 54:04Payton Moreland?

  It's totally possible. In fact, loving your kid while holding them accountable is usually the best thing you can do for them.

• 54:09Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, I just...

• 54:12Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, it's kind of embarrassing.

• 54:14Payton Moreland?

  Um, before pleading guilty, Koberger's defense attorney motion to throw this DNA evidence out, basically their strongest piece of evidence, but the request was denied, which also might have pushed Koberger into making that guilty plea because that's a smoking gun. Like, how do you even argue that? But that wasn't the only thing pointing in his direction. Detectives also found evidence on Koberger's computer, once they arrested him, showing that he had purchased a K-Bar knife and a sheath just months before the killings.

• 54:44Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 54:44Payton Moreland?

  And then he searched for a new knife and cover right after the murders.

• 54:49Garrett Moreland?

  I mean, it's, it's black and white. I mean, sorry, I mean, I didn't mean black and white. I mean, it's open and shut.

• 54:55Payton Moreland?

  Yeah. So since Koberger's guilty plea, a lot more evidence has actually come to light because the state doesn't really have to keep it on lockdown anymore. So I'll share with you a few details that have come out since his guilty plea. Okay, so that selfie, the 10:30 a.m. selfie is what came out. That look on his face is so eerie. A friend of his also told police he had very obvious scratch marks on his face right after the murders. And they said the same thing happened back in October of 2022, a month before the murders. So people began to wonder, did he have a practice victim before this? Koberger's car and house were also meticulously cleaned after the murders. And more eyewitnesses came

• 55:38Payton Moreland?

  forward to say they saw a man lurking around that King Road neighborhood and acting nervous around the time of the crimes. And as far as finding any new evidence inside the house where the crimes took place, this is a very problematic part of this case that I do have a firm stance on because we will never find more evidence at the King Road House. On December 28th, 2023, the University of Idaho decided to demolish the King Road House before he had even pled guilty, saying it was, quote, "a grim reminder of the heinous act."

• 56:14Garrett Moreland?

  Hello? Who made, hello? Is this mic on? Who made that decision?

• 56:18Payton Moreland?

  Also, this was despite the fact that two of the families, like, came forward publicly insisting, no, no, no, please keep the house standing through the trial. Like, keep it standing through the trial. What if the jury want to go visit? What if there's more evidence there? Like-

• 56:31Garrett Moreland?

  Who in their right mind, who made that call?

• 56:35Payton Moreland?

  They just believed that it was

• 56:36Garrett Moreland?

  You're kidding me right now.

• 56:37Payton Moreland?

  That they needed to like delete it out of the college campus to kind of like close that chapter even though it wasn't legally closed yet.

• 56:46Garrett Moreland?

  The amount of incompetent people we have making decisions in our lives blows my mind. That is an insane decision to make.

• 56:54Payton Moreland?

  I will say the prosecutors kind of, they didn't really fight for it. They said the current condition of the premises is so substantially different than at the time of the homicides. Um, they didn't even believe that they would be able to get the jury in there like they didn't lock down it enough.

• 57:09Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 57:09Payton Moreland?

  So while the house was knocked down, these questions around Coburger's motives still stand. Many want to know why Coburger went after these four college students in particular. Was he zeroing in on one roommate, maybe Maddie? But ended up taking more lives when he realized that Kaylee was there and then maybe that murderer had disturbed Xana or Xana had gotten up to get her door dash and they had run into each other, whatever it may be. Then he had to kill Xana. And then once he got Xana in the room, he realized Ethan was in there passed out. So he killed Ethan like we don't know what was intended to happen that night. We only know like the result of what happened that night. Was it something about the house?

• 57:54Payton Moreland?

  It made him target the people in there. And if so, why did he leave two roommates alive that night? Especially if he literally made eye contact with one of them after killing four? Why stop? While Coburger himself has yet to give an answer to these questions, that doesn't mean the truth will not come out over time. New information about this case continues to surface, just like Garrett said every day. And it is possible that one day Coburger himself will want to talk. We know that he has done a lot of studying of serial killers. He is very fascinated by serial killers. He has done so much history into psychology and the mind behind it. So maybe eventually he will fall into the serial killer trap where

• 58:39Payton Moreland?

  it brings them pride and ego to admit to what they've done.

• 58:43Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 58:44Payton Moreland?

  And so they speak out about it, not to help the families.

• 58:48Garrett Moreland?

  But for their own benefit, yeah.

• 58:50Payton Moreland?

  Yeah, to kind of put their stamp on their crime. Now, during the sentencing hearing, Judge Stephen Hippler gave one reason for Koberger's crimes. Cowardice. He also added that while he too wants to understand this senseless killer by continually asking the question of why, he says us continuing to question it gives Koberger more power and control. So I will leave you with one final message from the judge that kind of articulates my feelings. Quote, "There is no reason for these crimes that could approach anything resembling rationality. In my view, the time has now come to end Mr. Koberger's 15 minutes of fame."

• 59:34Payton Moreland?

  Now, if you watched the sentencing hearing, you know that Kaylee Gonzalez's sister gave a really impactful victim impact statement. And I think, closing out this case, I want to end with her words. She said, "I won't stand here and give you what you want. I won't offer you tears. I won't offer you trembling disappointments like you thrive on pain, on fear, and on the illusion of power. I will not feed your beast. Instead, I will call you what you are: sociopath, psychopath, murderer.

• 1:00:15Payton Moreland?

  I will ask the questions that reverberate violently in my own head so loudly that I can't think straight most any day. Some of these might be familiar, so sit up straight when I talk to you." She goes on to say, "If you were really smart, do you think you would be here right now? What's it like needing this much attention just to feel real? You're terrified of being ordinary, aren't you? Do you feel anything at all, or are you exactly what you always feared? Nothing." If you're so powerful, then why are you still hiding defendant? You see, I'm here today as me, but who are you?

• 1:00:57Payton Moreland?

  She then says, "You act like no one could ever understand your mind, but the truth is, you are basic. You're a textbook case of insecurity disguised as control. Your patterns are predictable, your motives are shallow, you are not profound, you're pathetic. You aren't special or deep, not mysterious or exceptional. Don't ever get it twisted again. No one is scared of you today. No one is intimidated by you. No one is impressed by you. No one thinks you are important. You orchestrated this like you thought you were God. And now look at you, begging a courtroom for scraps. You spent months preparing and still, all it took was my sister and a sheath.

• 1:01:43Payton Moreland?

  You worked so hard to seem dangerous, but real control doesn't have to prove itself. The truth is, the scariest part about you is how painfully average you turned out to be. The truth is, you are as dumb as they come. Stupid, clumsy, slow, sloppy, weak, dirty. Let me be very clear. Don't ever try to convince yourself that you mattered just because someone finally said your name out loud. I see through you. You want the truth? Here's the one you'll hate the most. If you hadn't attacked them in their sleep in the middle of the night like a pedophile, Kaylee would have kicked your effing ass. Thank you."

• 1:02:26Payton Moreland?

  And that is how she ended her impact statement. And I think if there is a, like, if you could write the perfect impact statement about a way to actually get through to a psychopath or a murderer in this regard, she did it perfectly. I agree. Reminding everyone and him, "You are not special. You are not some crazy, smart person because you were able to kill four people and people can't comprehend how you could do that. People actually just think you're lame, you're average, and you suck. Like, you're a bad person. That's all people think about you. And I just 100% agree. And I think her impact statement was impactful.

• 1:03:09Payton Moreland?

  All right, you guys, that was the kind of summarization. Also, if we had had a trial, maybe this is what would have been brought up. Story of the Idaho four. Please remember their names, remember their families, keep them at the forefront. Remember that all four of these victims were more than just the Idaho four murder victims. And let's put Brian Koberger to rest. All right, you guys, we will see you next time with another one. I love it.

• 1:03:41Garrett Moreland?

  And I hate it.

• 1:03:42Payton Moreland?

  Goodbye.

• 1:03:53Speaker 06

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