279. The Yacht Slaying - The Murder of Jackie and Thomas Hawks

In this episode, Payton and Garrett dive into the chilling story of Jackie and Tom Hawks, a devoted couple ready to trade in their life at sea to spend more time with family. But when they put their beloved yacht up for sale, their dream of a peaceful retirement takes a dark and deadly turn. Links: Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/murderwithmyhusband NEW MERCH LINK: https://mwmhshop.com Discount Codes: https://mailchi.mp/c6f48670aeac/oh-no-media-discount-codes Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/themwmh Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/murderwithmyhusband/ Watch on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@murderwithmyhusband Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/into-the-dark/id1662304327 Listen on spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/36SDVKB2MEWpFGVs9kRgQ7?si=f5224c9fd99542a7 Case Sources: ABCNews.go.com - https://abcnews.go.com/US/receipt-target-stolen-car-mexico-unsolved-murder-investigation/story?id=68204176 LATimes.com - https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2009-jun-20-me-death-boat20-story.html Medium.com - https://medium.com/@cindyparmiter/into-the-dark-abyss-the-horrifying-murders-of-tom-and-jackie-hawks-779dd83709e6 CBSNews.com - https://www.cbsnews.com/news/48-hours-mystery-dark-voyage-30-04-2009/# CrimeLibrary.com - https://www.crimelibrary.org/notorious_murders/celebrity/hawkes_deleon/1_index.html Oxygen.com - https://www.oxygen.com/the-real-murders-of-orange-county/crime-news/skylar-deleon-kills-tom-jackie-hawks-in-yacht-murder OCRegister.com - https://www.ocregister.com/2009/02/19/3rd-man-convicted-in-murders-of-couple-on-yacht/ International Business Times - https://web.archive.org/web/20081024083414/http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/20081007/skylar-deleon-039-power-ranger-039-yacht-killing-case-underway.htm DailyMail.com - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13987861/skylar-deleon-taxpayer-trans-surgery-thomas-jackie-hawks-murder.html Wikipedia.com - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Thomas_and_Jackie_Hawks Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:27Payton Moreland?

  If you are like me, protecting the people inside your home is a top priority. I have Daisy at home, I'm about to have a baby at home, and Garrett and me. And there are a lot of times where I've thought about our safety, but that is where SimpliSafe comes in and has had my back honestly for years. Unlike traditional security systems that only alert you after a break in is already underway, SimpliSafe is built to stop it before it starts, which is exactly what I'm looking for. I don't even want someone in my home. I want it stopped before the alarm has even gone off. We've partnered with SimpliSafe to offer our listeners their biggest savings of the year. 70% off your new system with

• 1:11Payton Moreland?

  professional monitoring. If you've been thinking about a security system, it is now. 70% off, guys, when you visit simplisafe.com/husband. That is simplisafe.com/husband. And when you order, just write in Murder With My Husband at checkout. Tells them we sent you. Really helps the show. SimpliSafe, ahead of crime in real time. You're listening to an Ono Media Podcast. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to our podcast. This is Murder With My Husband. I'm Peyton Morland.

• 1:41Garrett Moreland?

  And I'm Garrett Moreland.

• 1:42Payton Moreland?

  And he's the husband.

• 1:42Garrett Moreland?

  And I'm the husband.

• 1:43Payton Moreland?

  I wonder if anyone ever notices that sometimes I say "the" podcast and sometimes I say "our" podcast.

• 1:49Garrett Moreland?

  I don't know if I've ever, if I've ever noticed that.

• 1:53Payton Moreland?

  Just different like that.

• 1:54Garrett Moreland?

  Switching things up like that. Hope everyone's doing great.

• 2:00Garrett Moreland?

  Important, if you are listening on Apple, we are currently running a promotion for subscribers or to be a subscriber, there's a 14 day free trial. We usually do not do free trials, but there's a 14 day free trial. You can go and listen to the bonus episodes and add free content and check it out to see if you want to stick around and continue to be a paid subscriber. And for those on Spotify and Patreon, we are setting one up right now. So by the time this is up, there will also be a free trial for Patreon slash Spotify. So you can check out our content, see all the bonus episodes we've done. You can see the episode I recorded, which was, I don't know, like 15 minutes long. It's all ad free.

• 2:46Garrett Moreland?

  We love all you guys. Thank you for listening. Thank you for clicking on our ads. Thank you for using our discount codes. Thank you for supporting us. It means a lot to us and it's, I mean, it's why we can do this because of you guys. That's what I got as far as announcements. And yeah, you got anything, babe?

• 3:05Payton Moreland?

  No. Get that free trial. And we have quite a backlog on there at this point.

• 3:12Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, we've been doing bonus content for four plus years now.

• 3:16Payton Moreland?

  You get all of them, not just like from when you sign up.

• 3:19Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, yeah, you get everything that we've ever done. So go and check it out. I really appreciate everyone last week who supported my IBS problems. Thank you very much. It's good to know that I got a lot of support, a lot of people that understand stomach problems. I went golfing this morning and did okay. There was a bunch of coyotes out, which was really cool. It makes me want to. And I don't know, I would have to look into it more because I don't know, I think enough about the ethics or the morals behind doing a like safari trip. I know there's ones that you can

• 4:00Garrett Moreland?

  do that are, I guess morally correct, but I think it's something that I would love to do someday. I don't know. I think it'd be so cool. I just want to see cheetahs. I want to see giraffes. And I've been in like San Diego Zoo, but like I want to see them in the wild in Africa. I don't know. Maybe it's a bucket list thing. Maybe one day, would you ever do that or no? Would that scare you?

• 4:21Payton Moreland?

  No, I would do it.

• 4:22Garrett Moreland?

  You would do it?

• 4:22Payton Moreland?

  I just want to do the like.

• 4:24Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah. You just want to make sure it's morally like or ethically. Yeah. Yeah. Because I know some are not.

• 4:30Payton Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 4:31Garrett Moreland?

  And I know they're animals. They're just trying to live their lives, you know, trying to hang out. I don't know. Maybe one day. I think that would be pretty fun. If anyone's ever been on a safari trip, let me know. I'd love to hear more. All right. Buckle up. We are hopping into this week's case.

• 4:49Payton Moreland?

  First, if I look tired or I sound tired, I am tired. Okay. I've got red eyes, sore body, hemorrhoids. I'm just kidding. I've got, I got a sore body. I got red eyes. I am tired. So if that's why I sound a little different today, well, I'm sorry. Our sources for this episode are abcnews.go.com, latimes.com, medium.com, cbsnews.com, crimelibrary.com, oxygen.com, ocregister.com, international business times and daily mail.com.

• 5:26Garrett Moreland?

  Did you say ocregister.com?

• 5:28Payton Moreland?

  Yep.

• 5:30Garrett Moreland?

  This case will be in Orange County, California.

• 5:34Payton Moreland?

  Where we're at, do you think?

• 5:36Garrett Moreland?

  I'm going to guess we are in either Garden Grove or

• 5:42Payton Moreland?

  Okay.

• 5:43Garrett Moreland?

  San Clemente or Newport Beach. Where are we at?

• 5:47Payton Moreland?

  Newport.

• 5:48Garrett Moreland?

  New. Knew it.

• 5:51Garrett Moreland?

  I knew it. Why are you laughing?

• 5:53Payton Moreland?

  Cause you would say Garden Grove.

• 5:55Garrett Moreland?

  Well, you know.

• 5:56Payton Moreland?

  You OC people.

• 5:58Garrett Moreland?

  You don't know anything about those. He don't give me that. You don't know nothing.

• 6:03Payton Moreland?

  Um, but also I'm just gonna wait. I'm gonna start and see if you like maybe catch it.

• 6:07Garrett Moreland?

  Okay, okay, okay.

• 6:09Payton Moreland?

  A lot of people spend their entire lives working towards one special chapter and that is retirement. It's the point where we've finally accomplished our goals, have hopefully saved enough money to stop working, kick back, spend time with family, maybe travel a bit more and sleep in past 8 a.m. Which I don't know one elderly person that sleeps in past 8 a.m. But that's what they say retirement is. It's the time where we can look back and go, all that hard work has finally paid off. Where we can finally have a little peace and quiet after years of grinding away to provide a good life for ourselves and our loved ones. But not everyone is willing to put in the years of hard work to get their retirement.

• 6:54Payton Moreland?

  Some people are willing to take shortcuts to get there. Even if it means killing the people who have worked hard for it and taking it as their own. So let's head now to Newport Beach, California. Where in 2004, 57-year-old Thomas Hawks is living with his wife, 47-year-old Jackie. Now, Thomas has spent most of his years working really hard for his family and his country. He's a Vietnam War veteran who also worked as an Air Force security police officer, a firefighter and a probation officer. He was also a bodybuilder on the side, so not exactly someone you would wanna mess with.

• 7:38Payton Moreland?

  But from everything I read, it sounds like Thomas was as sweet as could be. He was a family man at heart, someone who busted his butt working hard to save for his future and his two sons during his first marriage before Jackie. And those two sons were Ryan and Matt. But it wasn't just his family that he was invested in. It's said that Thomas was the kind of guy who cared about the people he worked with too. As a probation officer, he really took an interest in the people he was helping and wanted to see them succeed with this second chance at life. He believed people were capable of change and improving their lives for the better. This was a philosophy he also applied to his own life. After things didn't work out with his first wife,

• 8:23Payton Moreland?

  Thomas moved to Arizona where he eventually met Jackie in 1986 at a friend's chili cook-off. And at the time, Jackie was working as a supermarket checkout girl, and she was also temporarily in a wheelchair after a bad motorcycle accident. Now, Thomas fell in love with her quickly, as did his two teenage sons at the time, who said Jackie just brought out the best in their dad after the divorce with their mom. She was the perfect match for Thomas. They both loved the outdoors and going on thrill-seeking adventures, taking life by the horns, embracing it fully. And a few years later, the two were married.

• 9:04Payton Moreland?

  Thomas continued to invest his money and create a little nest egg so he could retire early. And by October of 2002, that dream came true. Jackie and Thomas sold their house in Arizona and moved back to California where they settled in Newport Beach. I mean, dream retirement. And they pursued another dream they had always had for themselves.

• 9:29Garrett Moreland?

  By the way, you gotta have a lot of money to get a nice house in Newport Beach.

• 9:32Payton Moreland?

  And retire.

• 9:34Garrett Moreland?

  And retire. It's expensive. So expensive.

• 9:37Payton Moreland?

  So they move there and they buy a boat and begin sailing.

• 9:42Garrett Moreland?

  My gosh.

• 9:43Payton Moreland?

  Now, this wasn't just any boat. It was a 55-foot yacht that cost them about $300,000 at the time.

• 9:52Garrett Moreland?

  They got money.

• 9:53Payton Moreland?

  Yachts.

• 9:56Payton Moreland?

  My dream. They named the yacht Well Deserved. They tricked this boat out with the latest technology and spent their time going from Mexico to Catalina Island off the coast of California. As Thomas's son Ryan put it, quote, "Being on water for them was a solitude. It was seeing the curve of the earth and seeing the sunset fall right behind it every single night." And that's how the couple spent the next two years of their life, venturing out on the open waters, enjoying all the fruits of their labor. But come 2004, there was a big change in the best possible way.

• 10:35Garrett Moreland?

  Kind of random, but I do wonder if... And I'm not judging and I don't care, but I wonder if anyone listening believes that the earth is flat.

• 10:46Payton Moreland?

  Should I have been more inclusive and just?

• 10:47Garrett Moreland?

  No, no, not at all. I mean, each their own opinion, but it just kind of made me think of that.

• 10:53Payton Moreland?

  So at this point in 2004, Ryan, who is Thomas's 27 year old son and his wife Nicole, welcomed their first baby and this would be the first baby in the family. And Thomas and Jackie were over the moon about becoming grandparents for the first time. The only problem was Ryan and his family were back in Arizona and Thomas and Jackie wanted to be closer to spend more time with them. It was something that meant more to them than cruising the coast of California. So that fall, they actually put the boat up for sale so they could get back to Arizona.

• 11:28Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, wow. Okay.

• 11:29Payton Moreland?

  So Thomas put a small ad for the yacht in a boating magazine and by November, they had a bite. Around November 10th, Ryan, this is his son, who's a father, spoke to his father on the phone and learned they had finally found a buyer. The sale was expected to go through over the next few days. So five days later, on November 15th, Jackie and Thomas got on the well deserved, the boat for one final trip out of Newport Harbor before they sold it. They actually were just going to sail over to Catalina Island. Now Jackie called her friend around 4:06 PM that day saying, hey, we're out to sea. But after that,

• 12:10Payton Moreland?

  the couple seemed to go radio silent. A few days passed as people began to wonder, why were both Jackie and Thomas's phones off? No one had heard from them since before that final trip they took out to Catalina on the 15th. So that's when Thomas's friend, Donnie, called Ryan, Thomas's son. He told him, hey, I'm supposed to help your dad pack up some of his stuff and move back to Arizona. I've been trying to get in touch with Thomas for the last day or so. I'm not getting an answer. Have you heard from your dad? Now, Donnie and Ryan knew it was unlike Thomas to just stand someone up like this, which is when Ryan called in his uncle Jim, a retired police chief in Carlsbad, California.

• 12:57Payton Moreland?

  It's not too far from Newport Beach. Both Jim and Donnie, Thomas's friends in California, meet up sometime around the 17th and they go down to the dock in Newport to see if the boat is there and if they can find any sign of Thomas and Jackie. Now, one of the first things they notice is the Well Deserved and its dinghy are back in the slip, but the dinghy is not tied to the dock properly and its motor is still in the down position in the water. So if they know something about their friend Thomas, he is super careful about boating safety. He would have never left any of this stuff like this on his own.

• 13:40Payton Moreland?

  Now onboard the Well Deserved, they don't see any sign of Thomas or Jackie, but they find that all of the tarps on the deck have been removed. So, nothing is covered. It's just sitting out in the open. Again, this is not something Thomas would have ever allowed. And weirdly, there's a towel hanging out of one of the portholes. And even more alarming, a lot of Thomas's things that he keeps onboard, like his surfboard and expensive radio, a few other items, all seem to be missing. So after seeing this, Jim, Thomas's brother, Uncle Jim, leaves a note for the prospective buyers of the boat because he figures they're gonna come looking for this soon enough because they're supposed to sell it.

• 14:22Payton Moreland?

  And since he doesn't know who they are, he wants them to know, hey, the owners of the boat haven't been heard from. If you've seen or heard from Thomas or Jackie, let us know. He also thinks maybe it's possible that the buyers were one of the last people to see Jackie and Thomas before they disappeared. Like maybe the buyers had already come.

• 14:41Garrett Moreland?

  But, okay, so wait, real quick, I just want to make sure. So the yacht is there? Or no, correct? The dinghy's there? But there's a bunch of stuff missing onboard?

• 14:50Payton Moreland?

  Yes.

• 14:51Garrett Moreland?

  Okay, just wanted to clear that up.

• 14:53Payton Moreland?

  Well, sure enough, a few days later, one of the buyers actually calls Uncle Jim and she says she and her husband paid for the boat in all cash. They don't say anything about when they last saw Jackie and Thomas, but she kind of rushes Jim off the phone pretty quickly to tend to what sounds like a baby in the background.

• 15:11Garrett Moreland?

  I was also gonna say, how do you prove that?

• 15:14Payton Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 15:15Garrett Moreland?

  You can't prove it. You can't be like, can you sh-

• 15:17Payton Moreland?

  Well, Jim's like, maybe I can get into Thomas and Jackie's banking account. See if they received the cash for the boat, knowing they would have probably deposited it right away. But there's been zero activity on their banking accounts since the day they were last heard from. There was no big deposits at all. So they start calling around to local hospitals. They're like, maybe they sold the boat, got the cash. And then from the time they got the cash, before they could get it to the bank, something bad happened. They call hospitals, they get nothing. So finally, the day after Thanksgiving, November 26th, Jim and Ryan hear that someone has accessed the couple's accounts finally.

• 15:58Payton Moreland?

  But whoever it was tried to withdraw money, not deposit the boat money.

• 16:04Garrett Moreland?

  This is, this is crazy.

• 16:06Payton Moreland?

  And even sketchier, this transaction originated in Mexico.

• 16:11Garrett Moreland?

  Oh my.

• 16:13Payton Moreland?

  So at this point, the family's like, okay, we know they're a couple, they're full grown adults. We think something bad happened here. It's time to get the police involved. So that afternoon, 11 days after Jackie and Thomas were last heard from, they officially take this information to the Newport Beach Police and file a missing persons report. And as they start interviewing those closest to the couple, they realize there was something a bit odd about the buyers of the Hawks' boat.

• 16:46Garrett Moreland?

  This is crazy. So you're telling me that these people bought the boat, killed them, and are trying to get away with it. I mean, obviously, we haven't gotten there yet, but I just don't, I really don't understand how people continue to think that they're going to get away with this stuff.

• 17:04Payton Moreland?

  Right?

• 17:05Garrett Moreland?

  Because it just doesn't, I don't know, it just doesn't, I don't think it happens very often. I do not think people get away with this. Large of a crime very often. It's like trying to rob a bank now and trying to get away with and trying to get away with it. It's like, good luck.

• 17:22Payton Moreland?

  I mean, a couple puts out an ad saying they're trying to sell their boat and then they go missing and the boat's still there.

• 17:28Garrett Moreland?

  It's like, okay.

• 17:29Payton Moreland?

  Not taken care of properly.

• 17:31Garrett Moreland?

  Like so much, obviously something's going on.

• 17:33Speaker 03

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• 18:00Payton Moreland?

  All right, guys, we're jumping into an ad and if you are like me, protecting the people inside your home is a top priority. I have Daisy at home. I'm about to have a baby at home and Garrett and me. And there are a lot of times where I've thought about our safety, but that is where Simply Safe comes in and has had my back honestly for years. Unlike traditional security systems that only alert you after a break in is already underway, Simply Safe is built to stop it before it starts, which is exactly what I'm looking for. I don't even want someone in my home. I want it stopped before the alarm has even gone off.

• 18:39Payton Moreland?

  Smart AI powered cameras watch for potential threats and alert a live US based security specialist ready to intervene. The agent intervenes in under 30 seconds, speaking through the camera to stop an intruder in their tracks, calling for urgent 911 dispatch when it's needed most. And we've partnered with Simply Safe to offer our listeners their biggest savings of the year. 70% off your new system with professional monitoring. If you've been thinking about a security system, it is now 70% off, guys. When you visit simplysafe.com/husband. That is simplysafe.com/husband. And when you order, just write in murder with my husband at checkout, tells them we sent you, really helps the show.

• 19:23Payton Moreland?

  Simply Safe, ahead of crime in real time. So as police are looking into it, they obviously are going to try to track the buyers down because now because they've had the buyers on the phone with family, they do believe these are the last people to have seen them. So they track the couple down who supposedly bought the boat and the couple's names were Skylar and Jennifer Deleon. Now, apparently, friends who spoke to Thomas before he disappeared said the Deleon's replied to the article he put up in the boating magazine and they first met around November 6th, 2004. This was eight days before the Hawks were last seen. Now, keep in mind, Thomas Hawks

• 20:05Payton Moreland?

  was a former vet turned police officer turned probation officer. I think it's safe to say he, he maybe could sniff people out, maybe see their intentions easier than other people. And when Thomas first laid eyes on the husband, 29-year-old Skylar, that day, he thought, there's no way this person can afford this boat. They were asking $435,000 for the yacht. Plus, Skylar seemed to know absolutely nothing about boats.

• 20:38Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 20:38Payton Moreland?

  So Thomas is thinking, it kind of seems like a scam, like there's no way I'm going to sell the boat to these people. So this is when Skylar explains to Thomas that they're a former actor who made some money working on the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers TV show.

• 20:54Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, wait, I'm sorry. I used to love the Power Rangers. Like, love. Did you ever watch Power Rangers?

• 21:00Payton Moreland?

  No.

• 21:01Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, like, good stuff. Like, good show, good show.

• 21:05Payton Moreland?

  So Skylar and the wife Jennifer had made some good money and they thought the boat would be a good investment.

• 21:14Garrett Moreland?

  Investment?

• 21:15Payton Moreland?

  Yes. And so Skylar calls Jennifer at this point and asks her to come down to the dock to meet the Hawks, check out the boat, and she does. A short while later, the pregnant Jennifer comes down with their young daughter Haley. And Jennifer and Jackie, so the wives, begin bonding over the new babies in their lives. And after a longer conversation, feelings start to change about the DeLeons. Jackie and Thomas see them as just a young and hungry couple like themselves eager for investments and adventures. In fact, they feel so good about them that they even waived the customary good faith deposit.

• 21:57Payton Moreland?

  So they agree to meet up again the following week to hand off the funds and sign the paperwork.

• 22:03Garrett Moreland?

  That's just not, that's not how it works. There's no way. There's no way.

• 22:08Payton Moreland?

  Would just be hard to meet like the scammer in person and like talk about family and stuff. And then be like, well, they seem like good people, you know?

• 22:17Garrett Moreland?

  I know. Well, I think it's crazy because obviously they knew at some point they weren't going to get the money, which is why they're missing.

• 22:27Payton Moreland?

  So.

• 22:27Garrett Moreland?

  That's insane.

• 22:28Payton Moreland?

  After hearing this story that Thomas had talked to friends about, police think they have to get the DeLeons in here and listen to their side of this story. And Skylar, the husband seems pretty cooperative. They say, yeah, they met back up with the Hawks around November 15th. So after that original meeting, Skylar gave them the cash for the sale of the boat. And Skylar even showed the police the bill of sale for the boat, and it is fully equipped with Thomas's signature fingerprints, even a stamp from a notary. Skylar said, yeah, the whole thing went off without a hitch. The Hawks gave us the keys and drove away. And that was the last time they ever saw the Hawks.

• 23:12Garrett Moreland?

  Hmm. The confusing part to me would be if, depending on if the notary stamp checks out, I go to the person who notarized it and they agree with it. That part would confuse me if I was a detective or a cop investigating this.

• 23:26Payton Moreland?

  Well, Skylar even tells the cops. We actually had a friend with us, someone who was there during the transaction, watched it all go down. You can call him. He's a guy named Alonso Machane.

• 23:39Garrett Moreland?

  What is happening?

• 23:41Payton Moreland?

  But first, the police speak with Jennifer, the wife, and she says, we're concerned as well. We've been trying to get in touch with the Hawks to tie up some loose ends with the sale, especially because they left a bunch of their belongings on the boat and now we don't know where to send them. So police think everything is going kind of normal with this couple, until Skylar admits something while they're talking to the police that kind of catches them off guard. Skylar admits that the cash they used to buy the boat was drug money, that they were trying to launder. Now, I have no idea why Skylar would just like openly admit this.

• 24:18Garrett Moreland?

  Maybe he just assumed he was gonna get caught and so he assumed, also maybe to throw them off.

• 24:23Payton Moreland?

  Yeah, like if I admit to something.

• 24:25Garrett Moreland?

  If I admit to this, then they'll just investigate this and we can move on so they don't think I murdered.

• 24:29Payton Moreland?

  Cause then I don't seem suspicious, cause I'm willing to admit something.

• 24:33Garrett Moreland?

  That's wa- that's crazy.

• 24:34Payton Moreland?

  I'll give them a little, right? So, um, if Skylar hadn't done this, the police probably would have just sent the couple on their way and stopped looking into them because they had a notary, they had the signature, they had a friend who said that they witnessed everything go down.

• 24:49Garrett Moreland?

  That's crazy.

• 24:50Payton Moreland?

  But that little comment to police was like, well, I'm gonna, like, we just need to keep them on our radar because obviously they, they're not too opposed to being involved in shady things, especially when police go searching the well-deserved for more clues. So the day after the Hawks are reported missing, on November 27th, 2004, police board their yacht. And one of the things they find on the yacht is a receipt from Target. Now, what's interesting is it's dated two days after the Hawks were last seen. And it's for things like trash bags, bleach, cleaning items.

• 25:27Garrett Moreland?

  Here we go, here we go.

• 25:29Payton Moreland?

  So the police go to the Target that was listed on the receipt and they ask for surveillance footage from the date and time on it. They don't find Skylar or Jennifer at the Target, though. They find Jennifer's father walking around shopping instead. So they questioned Jennifer's dad. He says he was sent on an errand by the couple that day. They told him they needed cleaning supplies for a volunteer job at their local church. But the timing of all of this and the fact that they found the receipt on board, one of the last places the Hawks were ever seen, that sets off alarm bells for the police.

• 26:08Garrett Moreland?

  I feel like it'd be a good idea. And I know it would probably be a hassle and there's a lot of people who buy this stuff without being shady. But anytime a weapon, like an axe, or something that cuts anything, and trash bags and bleach and rope is bought together, like the store should mark it.

• 26:28Payton Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 26:29Garrett Moreland?

  And then if there's ever an investigation in the area, it's like alerted and it's like, oh, let's check out the cameras. Who came through here? Who bought this stuff?

• 26:37Payton Moreland?

  Right.

• 26:37Garrett Moreland?

  Because, I mean, how many people are really buying rope, trash bags, bleach, and like, I don't know.

• 26:43Payton Moreland?

  A murder cleanup kit?

• 26:45Garrett Moreland?

  A murder cleanup kit.

• 26:46Payton Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 26:46Garrett Moreland?

  Maybe a decent amount, but I feel like it wouldn't be too hard to note down.

• 26:49Payton Moreland?

  So at this point, police are like, we're gonna start digging into Skylar's past. And this is when they find out that Skylar is not the person the Hawks thought.

• 26:58Garrett Moreland?

  What a surprise.

• 26:59Payton Moreland?

  So Skylar had a pretty rough childhood. Skylar had been around drugs a lot of their life since their father actually manufactured and sold them. But Skylar was a kid who had big dreams, as you know.

• 27:11Garrett Moreland?

  Go, go Power Rangers.

• 27:13Payton Moreland?

  Skylar wanted to be an actor. They were cast in the TV show Mighty Morphin Power Rangers.

• 27:18Garrett Moreland?

  Mighty Morphin Power

• 27:20Payton Moreland?

  But not as a regular cast member, like Skylar would tell people. Skylar was a background extra in the show a couple of times. So telling the Hawks that this is where the money for the boat came from and not from drug money wasn't true. Instead, when acting didn't become a full-time thing for Skylar, they actually joined the Marines where they ended up going AWOL, got a dishonorable discharge. And it was shortly after that that Skylar met Jennifer Henderson. Jennifer was a hairstylist and devoutly religious.

• 27:55Payton Moreland?

  Skylar was working as a mortgage lender at the time when the two fell in love and together they moved into a unit on Jennifer's family property. Skylar got her pregnant almost right away and they soon got married. But Skylar was not a great influence on Jennifer, as you can imagine. The two wasted away all their money, they racked up massive debt. They found ways to swindle people to try and repay loans that they had taken, all while chasing dreams they didn't necessarily deserve. Including a new one Skylar had come up with recently. Get on a boat, sell to Mexico and spend their days living out on the ocean as a family. Now, obviously that's where the Hawks came in, but the police knew something Jackie and Thomas didn't.

• 28:39Payton Moreland?

  Skylar, $87,000 in debt with a child on the way, was also a convicted felon. And at the time of the sale, Skylar was on probation for armed robbery.

• 28:51Garrett Moreland?

  Oh my gosh.

• 28:52Payton Moreland?

  Now, knowing all of this and that Skylar admitted to using drug money to try and purchase the boat, police have a really bad feeling about what actually may have happened the day.

• 29:02Garrett Moreland?

  Did he think that they weren't going to look into him?

• 29:04Payton Moreland?

  Right.

• 29:05Garrett Moreland?

  And check this out, I mean, it's so easy to be like, oh, he has a felony on his record.

• 29:10Payton Moreland?

  Also Skylar had told the police something else that was kind of alarming. Alongside signing the boat over to them and watching them drive off into the sunset. Skylar says the Hawks gave him durable power of attorney because they were helping them secure a vacation home for them in Mexico.

• 29:28Garrett Moreland?

  This is ridiculous.

• 29:29Payton Moreland?

  This is a massive red flag to police. Why would a couple sign over their power of attorney to someone they had met twice who was buying their boat?

• 29:36Garrett Moreland?

  This is ridiculous.

• 29:37Payton Moreland?

  Especially for a home in Mexico when the whole reason they were even selling the boat and leaving the place they had chosen to retire to was to get back to Arizona to be with family. None of it made sense, but here was Skylar showing them paperwork with a witness, a notary, and signatures from the couple. Though as they looked closer at this document, something stood out to investigators. Jackie had signed her last name Hawk, not Hawks.

• 30:04Payton Moreland?

  They started to wonder, was this intentional? Did Jackie sign her name like that hoping Skylar wouldn't be able to access their funds because of the discrepancy? Or was she forced to sign it under duress? With all of this incredibly sketchy information, the police feel a lot of pressure to find the Hawks and quickly, or at the very least, to gather more information and begin building a case against Skylar.

• 30:30Garrett Moreland?

  There's sadly, there's no way they're alive. Like, there's no way.

• 30:34Payton Moreland?

  And about a month after the Hawks disappear, the police get a lead that really gets the ball rolling. In December, Ryan Hawks goes to the media. Remember, this is the son asking for help from the police on his parents' whereabouts. And that's when a retired couple living in San Miguel, Mexico, hears about the case. And the couple says, hey, there's a car that's been abandoned next to the mobile home by us and we're pretty sure it's your missing parents' car. So on December 16th, 2004, police knock on the door of that mobile home. And sure enough, the person says, oh yeah, someone just gave me this car back on November 26th.

• 31:18Payton Moreland?

  And when they show the personal lineup of suspects, this person in Mexico, they pick Skylar out immediately and say, yeah, that's the person who gave me this car.

• 31:27Garrett Moreland?

  Holy crap, okay.

• 31:29Payton Moreland?

  Now Skylar has been insisting this entire time, they had nothing to do with Hawk, the Hawks' disappearance, that Skylar says, oh, I've never been in the car either. But now that seems to be a lie. So the police impound the car and scan it for DNA evidence. Meanwhile, they speak with Skylar's probation officer and find Skylar had asked for permission to leave the country around the same time that November.

• 31:50Garrett Moreland?

  Bro.

• 31:51Payton Moreland?

  For work. So with that information, police have more than enough to get Skylar in custody. They arrest them the following day on December 17th, but not for murder. They arrest Skylar for money laundering admission because it's hard to prove murder when you don't have a body. But the police don't plan to stop there. They keep on digging, knowing it's only a matter of time before the truth surfaces. So after the arrest detectives search the De Leones home and they find a bunch of items belonging to Jackie and Thomas in that home. They find Jackie's laptop, the video camera, the batteries to both of their cell phones, personal documents, their IDs.

• 32:36Garrett Moreland?

  Oh my gosh.

• 32:37Payton Moreland?

  They also get results from the DNA analysis on the Hawks car and confirm that Skylar's DNA was all over the inside of the vehicle, proving that Skylar had lied about being in the vehicle. So they track down the notary Skylar used to verify the power of attorney and boat ownership documents.

• 32:55Garrett Moreland?

  That's what my next question was is then is this real? Is this notary? Like, is this real?

• 33:00Payton Moreland?

  They call her in for questioning. Her name is Kathleen Harris. Now, this wasn't Kathleen's first time sitting in front of the police for this case. She had already been called in a few times and insisted each time that she saw Jackie and Thomas sign that paperwork in front of her. But after Skylar's arrest, her tune starts to change. She admits to police she actually didn't notarize them in person. But instead, after the fact, in a hotel room.

• 33:28Garrett Moreland?

  And so she was bribed or paid for it 100%.

• 33:31Payton Moreland?

  Yeah, Kathleen confesses to being paid $2,000 to backdate the documents.

• 33:36Garrett Moreland?

  2,000, you're doing this for $2,000? I hope you're going to be in jail for the next 10 years.

• 33:41Payton Moreland?

  So the next person up is the supposed friend and witness to those document sightings, Alonso. Skylar told the police that Alonso was with them when they went to pick up the keys for the boat. So police go searching for Alonso, bring him back in for questioning, and they find that he's actually fled down to Mexico. So they start making a deal with Alonso. Come back to the United States. We'll make sure if you are found guilty of a crime, the death penalty won't be on the table. And shockingly, he agrees. In March of 2005, Alonso comes back to California where he finally tells the police what had actually happened that day between Skylar and the Hawks. All right, guys, we are jumping into an ad and it is one of my favorites, Quince.

• 34:25Payton Moreland?

  You've listened to the show at all, you know how much I love Quince. Quince is not just a clothing store, okay, guys. They have quality everything at this point. I actually just ordered some skincare from Quince because here's the one thing about Quince. I love that they have kind of just excluded the middlemen and so they pass those savings on to you. So you're getting really good quality luxury pieces at a more affordable price. Again, like I just said, they have so much on there. I have shoes, I have bags, I have luggage, I have scarves, I just ordered skincare, I ordered some baby onesies and baby products from them. Honestly, they have everything.

• 35:10Payton Moreland?

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• 35:47Payton Moreland?

  an ad and it is for Wayfair. For all things hosting, Wayfair delivers high-quality, customer-trusted products for your home so you can host and celebrate without the stress, which is so, so important with the holidays coming up. Wayfair helps you create a home that stands up to real life with quality products, great value and trusted reviews. Products are high-vetted by product specialists using a 10-point quality inspection and you can shop thousands of products across every style and budget, whether you're simply replacing an appliance or transforming your home from top to bottom for the holiday season. And honestly, it's not just, you know,

• 36:27Payton Moreland?

  the little cute corduroy couch I just bought, but it's also they have verified Christmas trees, they have holiday sales going on, fireside faves, space-saving party picks, like-

• 36:41Payton Moreland?

  Anything that you're looking for, you're gonna find over on Wayfair. And when refreshing your home this holiday season, Wayfair delivers exactly what you need. Head to wayfair.com to shop all things homes. That's wayfair, W A Y F A I R dot com.

• 36:58Speaker 04

  Wayfair, every style, every home.

• 37:01Payton Moreland?

  So Alonso and Skylar met years ago back in prison when Skylar was an inmate and Alonso was working as a jailer in Seal Beach, California. Apparently, the two stayed close even after Skylar's release. So when Alonso received a call from Skylar asking for a favor in the fall of 2004, Alonso listened. According to Alonso, Skylar told him, "I'm working as an international hitman now, and I need help getting rid of a dangerous couple named Thomas and Jackie Hawks." Now, of course, we know this is a lie, but it seemed to be enough to get Alonso involved. The truth was Skylar was just looking for a get-rich-quick scheme and didn't care whose life it cost.

• 37:43Payton Moreland?

  So Skylar replied to the ad Thomas Hawks put in the paper, assuming this couple who was selling their half a million dollar yacht likely had money in other places as well. Skylar met with the couple around the 12th, and when Thomas seemed hesitant of Skylar, they called Jennifer to come down with the daughter, make it seem good, earn the trust. But there was something Skylar also noticed that day. Thomas Hawks was a big guy. Remember, he was a former bodybuilder. If Skylar was going to follow through with the plan, which was to take the Hawks out to sea, get them to sign their riches away, and then leave them for dead, they were gonna need reinforcements other than Alonso.

• 38:21Payton Moreland?

  So after that meeting, Skylar recruited a gang member named John Fitzgerald Kennedy to also help with this entire scheme. With the Hawks agreeing to sell their boat to Skylar, they planned to meet back up on the 15th to give Skylar the keys. And when that day came, this is exactly what happened. Skylar didn't grab the keys and watch the Hawks drive off in their Honda, like Skylar had told police. Instead, Skylar introduced Alonso and John F. Kennedy. Yes, that is the gang member's name. To the Hawks saying they were business associates.

• 39:00Garrett Moreland?

  Bro, as soon as I heard his name was John F. Kennedy, I'd be like, I'm going home.

• 39:03Payton Moreland?

  So all of them board the boat and set out into the sunset just for like a little ride before the sell of the boat. And that's when Jackie made that final phone call to her friend that day at 406 saying, hey, we're out at sea. And it would be the last phone call she ever made.

• 39:20Garrett Moreland?

  That's so, it's so heartbreaking.

• 39:22Payton Moreland?

  Because once everyone was out in open waters to sell this boat, things got ugly fast. John pretended to be seasick and went down to the stateroom on the lower deck. Skylar followed and minutes later, Thomas went down to check on them, leaving Jackie alone with Alonso on the main deck. So while down there, John and Skylar ambushed Thomas, they began punching him using a stun gun on the 57 year old former bodybuilder. They handcuffed him and put duct tape over his mouth. Jackie, who heard this commotion below, was then overpowered by Alonso, who did the same exact thing. He then brought her down to the stateroom.

• 40:01Garrett Moreland?

  This is heartbreaking and horrible.

• 40:03Payton Moreland?

  Next to her husband. The two were then held at gunpoint and told if they signed a bill of sale for the yacht, a power of attorney document, and gave their passwords to their bank accounts, they would be dropped off on the border of Mexico somewhere safe and sound. So they removed a handcuff to let each of them sign and to roll their fingerprints for the notarization. But Thomas, being a former parole officer, didn't believe for a second these people were just gonna let him and his wife go. So when his handcuff was off, he fought back. Except the Hawks were overpowered in the end. The three assailants tied the Hawks to the 66 pound anchor and sent them over the side of their own ship.

• 40:46Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, I can't, no, no, no, no, no.

• 40:48Payton Moreland?

  Then Skylar and the accomplices sailed back to port, stole a few more things off the boat. Skylar walked away with a signed fortune in their hands.

• 40:56Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, that is. I can't, dude.

• 40:59Payton Moreland?

  So after getting this confession from Alonso, police have more than enough to charge him, Skylar and John F. Kennedy with two counts of first degree murder. They charged Skylar's wife Jennifer with murder as well, even though in the story, she's not actually on the boat that day.

• 41:15Garrett Moreland?

  Bull crap.

• 41:17Payton Moreland?

  By the way, police learn after going through the Dailyon's home that this wasn't the first time Skylar had committed murder for some cash. Inside Skylar's house investigators discover a business card. It was for a Los Angeles police officer who had been working with the Mexican police and was looking into Skylar over the last year. Turns out, one of Skylar's fellow former inmates, a man named John Jarvey, was murdered in Mexico a year earlier. His throat was slashed ear to ear. What police didn't know until after unraveling the Hawks' case was how closely Skylar had been involved with that murder earlier.

• 41:58Payton Moreland?

  Apparently Skylar had sold John on a business proposition after they were released. John gave Skylar 50,000 in cash and then went with Skylar to Mexico where the deal was supposed to take place. Instead Skylar pocketed the cash and John never returned to America, going missing. Now hearing about the similarities and how this man and the Hawks has died, police feel confident they can also charge Skylar with the death of John Jarvey.

• 42:23Garrett Moreland?

  Dude, I can't stop thinking about this one. It's just that would, I don't know if there's anything worse than being with your significant other and you guys are tied to an anchor together and thrown over.

• 42:35Payton Moreland?

  When you're just selling your boat to go meet your future grandbaby, your first grandbaby.

• 42:39Garrett Moreland?

  I think a lot of it is the feeling of being completely helpless.

• 42:43Payton Moreland?

  Yes.

• 42:44Garrett Moreland?

  Like that makes me sick to my stomach.

• 42:46Payton Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 42:48Garrett Moreland?

  That's insane.

• 42:48Payton Moreland?

  And there's like three people on this ship.

• 42:52Garrett Moreland?

  Well, they have families, like they have kid, like it's just this whole thing is absolutely, there's just lots I want to say that I can't say on the podcast. That blows my mind.

• 43:02Payton Moreland?

  It's gross. I don't know. Like gross isn't even, there's not a word like.

• 43:06Garrett Moreland?

  I just, look, I know a lot of listeners disagree with this. And they'd probably change their minds if it was their family that was tied to an anchor and thrown overboard. That's the thing about these cases is and everyone can have their own opinions. It really doesn't bother me, but. You gather up the killers, you tie them to an anchor and you throw them overboard like just crazy. It's crazy that they did that to two innocent people and we're just like, yeah, let's just throw them in jail for the rest of their lives. No, no, they just killed Ish. I can't, I can't, I could rant about this forever.

• 43:42Payton Moreland?

  Yeah. It's just one of those things where like, imagine being the son who was so excited for his dad and stepmom who he loved to move back to Arizona and be there for the birth of his first child, their first grandbaby. They're gonna spend time together as a family. His dad had worked so hard, they're finally retired. And then you're just like, no, there's no possible way that my, my dad put an ad out to sell this boat to come be with me.

• 44:12Garrett Moreland?

  And was killed.

• 44:13Payton Moreland?

  And was killed because of this. Like someone took advantage of this and killed him.

• 44:18Garrett Moreland?

  It's disgusting.

• 44:21Payton Moreland?

  So when the trial begins, the state actually is like, hey, Jennifer will give you full immunity if you testify against your husband.

• 44:29Garrett Moreland?

  And she did.

• 44:30Payton Moreland?

  She refuses. She goes on trial in November of 2006 and is found guilty of first degree murder and is sentenced to two life terms.

• 44:37Garrett Moreland?

  She refuses.

• 44:39Payton Moreland?

  Full immunity, refuses it.

• 44:41Garrett Moreland?

  I promise your husband doesn't love you as much as you think he does.

• 44:44Payton Moreland?

  My thing is, is like, you're, you were pregnant at the time of the murder and also you have a daughter.

• 44:50Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, that's insane.

• 44:51Payton Moreland?

  For the kids that she goes to prison.

• 44:53Garrett Moreland?

  But so sad because now the parent, now the kid doesn't have a parent.

• 44:56Payton Moreland?

  Like, I'm, I don't know.

• 44:57Garrett Moreland?

  I mean, granted, I mean, do I want the kid's parents to be murderers? No, but yeah, it's, yeah.

• 45:04Payton Moreland?

  Meanwhile, Skyler has no problem throwing her under the bus.

• 45:08Garrett Moreland?

  There we go.

• 45:08Payton Moreland?

  Skyler says it was Jennifer's idea in the first place to kill this couple for the money.

• 45:12Garrett Moreland?

  What I'm talking about.

• 45:13Payton Moreland?

  Doesn't matter. After the trial in the fall of 2008, jurors found Skyler guilty of all three murders, Thomas, Jackie, and John Jarvey. Skyler was given the death penalty, which in California in 2008. John F. Kennedy was also found guilty, again, this is not John F. Kennedy, Kennedy, was also found guilty of the Hawks murders and sentenced to death. And Alonso made a deal with the prosecution, testifying in Jennifer, Skyler, and John's trials. Alonso pled guilty to two counts of voluntary manslaughter, was sentenced to 20 years behind bars. But there's one final twist in this story, one that most people don't see coming. While waiting for death row, the now 45 year old Skylar Deleon made a confession.

• 45:58Payton Moreland?

  They wanted to steal the Hawks' money to pay for gender affirming surgery. Skylar was actually still able to follow through on that desire due to a federally funded program that must provide gender affirming care to inmates in California. So while sitting on death row, Skylar began taking hormones in 2009, received a breast augmentation in April of 2023, and is now waiting to be transferred to a female prison. Now, the only reason I'm even including this is because why do you get to live your dream life?

• 46:37Garrett Moreland?

  In prison.

• 46:37Payton Moreland?

  Why do you get to go live your life?

• 46:39Garrett Moreland?

  After killing people.

• 46:41Payton Moreland?

  They didn't get to live out their dreams of being with their grandbaby.

• 46:44Garrett Moreland?

  Nope, that's.

• 46:47Payton Moreland?

  That bothers me and it has nothing to do with gender. It bothers me that they

• 46:52Garrett Moreland?

  Yes.

• 46:53Payton Moreland?

  get to go and live out a dream that they wanted?

• 46:58Garrett Moreland?

  It's, I mean, I know, and Peyton disagreed with me on this because it's, I'm a lot more extreme in this case, but it's exactly what I was saying when I was like, why do they get to kill people and then go to prison? And live happily ever after to an extent.

• 47:14Payton Moreland?

  And according to Skylar.

• 47:15Garrett Moreland?

  No, no, no, no, no.

• 47:16Payton Moreland?

  The only reason they killed the Hawks was for money for this surgery? And then they, they just get to go do the surgery anyways?

• 47:25Garrett Moreland?

  That's wild.

• 47:27Payton Moreland?

  It just feels like a stab, the last stab to the victim's family. It has nothing to do with gender, everything to do with the fact that the motive for this murder was then fulfilled.

• 47:40Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, no, that's.

• 47:41Payton Moreland?

  You know what I mean?

• 47:42Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, 100% it's mind blowing.

• 47:43Payton Moreland?

  That's so frustrating.

• 47:44Garrett Moreland?

  Very, very frustrating.

• 47:46Payton Moreland?

  Because of Skylar. Thomas and Jackie Hawks will not have the future that they worked hard for. They will not get to carry out their days quietly as grandparents. They will not get to watch their kids and their grandkids grow old because Skylar took that away from them, all to fulfill Skylar's own hopes and desires. And that is the murder of Thomas and Jackie Hawks.

• 48:16Garrett Moreland?

  Oh my gosh, I feel like these cases just frustrate me more and more each week.

• 48:23Payton Moreland?

  And I don't know, I guess if you're trying to say like prison reform versus prison penalty.

• 48:28Garrett Moreland?

  Nah, you keep me, I'm, you keep me out of this conversation because I will stand on death.

• 48:36Payton Moreland?

  Because if you-

• 48:36Garrett Moreland?

  I don't know how else how to say it because that is-

• 48:39Payton Moreland?

  I guess my question is, is if you have been sentenced to the death penalty, prison is about, isn't about reform?

• 48:47Garrett Moreland?

  Oh.

• 48:47Payton Moreland?

  Right?

• 48:48Garrett Moreland?

  I just think-

• 48:49Payton Moreland?

  It's a penalty. So why do death row inmates get the ability to reform? You know what I mean?

• 48:57Garrett Moreland?

  I think my thing in general too, is if you are in prison for first or second degree murder, okay. Or if, if, if, even if you just want to take this case by case and you don't want to go a little more broad in first and second degree murder, even if you want to take it case by case, after listening to the case, I'm sorry, they're not, these people are not being reformed. You cannot convince me otherwise. They brutally murdered people, stealing from them, and you're telling me they can be reformed?

• 49:31Garrett Moreland?

  Bullcrap, bullcrap.

• 49:33Payton Moreland?

  Here's my thing.

• 49:34Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 49:34Payton Moreland?

  I understand that from, if you're focusing on reform, I understand why there are certain things in prison that are there for mental health reasons to provide the best avenue for reformation, is that the word?

• 49:52Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, but reformation, reformation, yeah.

• 49:55Payton Moreland?

  But if if you're if you've been sentenced to the death penalty, you're not there for that. You're there for your penalty. So that that is where I'm like mind blown and obviously like, I mean, I think we've talked about this before, but I am not pro death penalty. So this is, this doesn't actually even really affect me. But like, I guess my beliefs in that, but I I this case just like, I think the fact that Skylar came out and was like, I did this all so I could get this surgery and then got the surgery. Like to me, that is so freaking frustrating from the victim.

• 50:34Garrett Moreland?

  I mean, and I know people. Yeah, and maybe this example isn't the best example. This is Garrett speaking, not Payton. It's like someone being like, I robbed the bank and killed a bunch of people because I want to be rich.

• 50:46Payton Moreland?

  And I got the money.

• 50:48Garrett Moreland?

  And I'm in prison and now I get all the money.

• 50:50Payton Moreland?

  It's like, no, no, no, no, no.

• 50:53Garrett Moreland?

  This is not how it works.

• 50:55Payton Moreland?

  It doesn't even have to be this exactly what Garrett just said. It doesn't have to be this exact example. It's like, oh, well, um, I killed her so I could get the guy and then in prison I got the guy.

• 51:05Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, this is.

• 51:05Payton Moreland?

  It's like, oh, it's just that last like stab.

• 51:08Garrett Moreland?

  Cake and eat it too. It's not how this works.

• 51:11Payton Moreland?

  So freaking annoying.

• 51:12Garrett Moreland?

  Bull crap. I'm pissed.

• 51:14Payton Moreland?

  Just don't like that. It doesn't feel like justice to me.

• 51:16Garrett Moreland?

  Pissed off. I'm pissed. Anyways, all right, we can end this. Sorry, everybody.

• 51:20Payton Moreland?

  I think we're just ranting at this point. All right, you guys. Uh, let us know in the comments what you think. Um, obviously like, I think keep it respectful because these are just opinions at this point and this case is a little different. But, um, I just think that there has to be justice at some point, you know?

• 51:37Garrett Moreland?

  Yes.

• 51:38Payton Moreland?

  All right, you guys, uh, we will see you next time with another one. I love it.

• 51:42Garrett Moreland?

  And I hate it.

• 51:43Payton Moreland?

  Goodbye.

• 51:53Speaker 05

  Great meeting. Who took notes? Anyone?

• 51:57Speaker 06

  With Monday NoteTaker, nobody has to take notes again. It joins your call, transcribes it, and turns the whole conversation into a clear plan. Action items, owners, deadlines, all right there on your monday.com board, ready for the team. So the meeting ends, and the plan already exists. Meetings aren't just talk anymore. Go to monday.com, the AI workspace platform.