Former NFL RB Rashard Mendenhall responds to his black vs white tweet & clears air of a decade of torment from Super Bowl play

FOLLOW THE PIVOT PODCAST: MERCH | https://pivotpodcast.com YOUTUBE | https://www.youtube.com/thepivotpodcast INSTAGRAM | https://instagram.com/thepivot TWITTER | https://twitter.com/thepivot TIKTOK | https://tiktok.com/@thepivot FACEBOOK | https://www.facebook.com/thepivotpodcast “I don’t know if there is a more attacked player in the modern era than me…. I open my phone and I’m being reminded of a moment every day, that shit feels like Chinese water torture, a little ping over and over and over again. When they say football is what you do not who you are, I don’t believe that, I feel like who and what we did under that helmet, sticks with you, that animal, that monster and for me it was a Samurai. It’s not the play, I played a million plays, I did the best I could, I’ve let go of the play, it’s how I’ve been treated since that I don’t feel like is fair and I finally had enough.” Rashard Mendenhall opens up about his fumble in Super Bowl 45 in today’s conversation on The Pivot. As we end a year, we are reminded that some of us carry burdens with us that we know nothing about and until we are able to open up and release it, the thought and feeling torments us. For former Steelers running back Rashard Mendenhall, it’s one play he feels has cast a shadow over everything else he’s done in his career on and off the football field. In a heavy but necessary conversation, the guys create a space for a tough but instrumental discussion about life, letting go and owning up to a mistake. Ryan and Fred sit down with Rashard for a conversation that got to the root of recent controversial comments made by the Steeler great, focusing on how one moment in the running back’s career has caused a decade of torment. Super Bowl 45 saw Ryan and Rashard’s Pittsburgh team fall to the Green Bay Packers, and the crew discussed how Mendenhall’s fumble played a crucial part in that game and his life beyond it. Last week, Mendenhall made waves in the NFL media world with a Tweet that seemed to pit a potential all-white player team and all-black player team against one another. Fans, players and personalities alike ran with the concept and made the hypothetical scenario become a little more real with debate and discussions, without the true context of why he said what he said and the root of it all. Ryan and Fred point out that NFL players are constantly in the public eye and there needs to be a disconnect from the media at times as it can have personal implications. Just last week Jonathan Owens and The Pivot team received scrutiny for the comments about Jonathan’s wife Simone Biles, yet as the hosts know, outside talk can always be insensitive as celebrities become a canvas and the guys reiterate how much love is between the young couple and encourage people to open minds to what’s reality vs what a false narrative creates. The situation in Denver has another player under the microscope as Russell Wilson has been benched by the Broncos, and the guys talk about Sean Payton and how Russ deserved better. Ryan isn’t shy about his thoughts on Payton’s moves from day one and how not only is it unprofessional but disrespectful in today’s game. One thing is certain, and it is that Freddy T is getting some of the love he deserves. Taylor was named a modern-era finalist on the upcoming ballot, but as Kobe says, “the job’s not done.” From our Pivot Family to yours, Happy New Year and we are ready for a full 2024 that’s going to be our best yet! New episodes drop on Tuesdays at 12 p.m. ET and Fridays at 3:30 p.m ET on YouTube, with audio available on all streaming platforms including Apple, Spotify and Amazon. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends. Like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest, or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an ultra. Because it's not just a superior light beer, it's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 0:30Ryan Clark?

  Feel weird, man. No Chan?

• 0:31Speaker 02

  I know. Bro, that top dead.

• 0:35Ryan Clark?

  It's like a funny way to end the year. We're only three deep. We're missing one. AZ, me, you. No Chan. Welcome to the pivot.

• 0:44Speaker 02

  Welcome.

• 0:45Ryan Clark?

  Just had it, man. What's up, Shaw?

• 0:47Speaker 02

  How you doing? How you doing?

• 0:48Fred Taylor?

  Yep, yep. Good to meet you.

• 0:50Ryan Clark?

  Yep.

• 0:50Speaker 02

  And congratulations, by the way.

• 0:51Ryan Clark?

  This is how I used to do the stillers all the time. They tried to gang up on me and I used to split the deep.

• 0:57Speaker 02

  Didn't you have that record on us? Most yards for the long time before, like?

• 1:02Fred Taylor?

  I'm gonna have it forever.

• 1:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:04Ryan Clark?

  That was at Three Rivers?

• 1:06Fred Taylor?

  Three Rivers, yeah.

• 1:06Ryan Clark?

  How many you have?

• 1:07Fred Taylor?

  234. I forget how many carries, but it was crazy.

• 1:10Ryan Clark?

  That's the Hall of Fame numbers, man. Congrats again as well.

• 1:14Fred Taylor?

  Yep.

• 1:14Ryan Clark?

  Being named the finalists.

• 1:16Fred Taylor?

  That's wild.

• 1:17Ryan Clark?

  We excited? How do we feel?

• 1:18Fred Taylor?

  I don't know how to process it. Obviously, I've been wanting to get here. Now that I'm here, I'm like, okay.

• 1:26Fred Taylor?

  Like Kobe said, job's not done. So it's a lot of work to do, but at least they get an opportunity to hear, you know, the pitch or whatever. The people that were outside of Jacksonville that kind of heard of my career from a distance. Now they have an opportunity to really kind of do a deep dive. And everyone can present my case. They get an opportunity to hear the case. So whatever that looks like, I'm thankful. And hopefully, they'll hear enough, see enough, you know, so I can get in. But one thing was, they talk about the eye test, right? Usually that's weight upon on your peers. But Jim Brown, who we lost this year, when he said what he said back in the day, I think that kind of check marked the eye test category.

• 2:09Fred Taylor?

  When he said I was his favorite back. And that's kind of been my driver, you know, from that point even to now. Because for me, that's, it's not all that matters, but it carries a lot of weight.

• 2:21Ryan Clark?

  Do you know who presents for you, Freddie T? How does that all work?

• 2:25Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, so each market has a selector to present my case. Yeah, yeah, Sam Coburn has been in the Jacksonville market. So each market has a selector. Then you have the national guys. And then there are two other guys, so it's 50 total.

• 2:41Ryan Clark?

  Gotcha.

• 2:41Fred Taylor?

  But each market, so it's 32 per market.

• 2:45Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, that's dope, man. I was fired up, you know.

• 2:48Fred Taylor?

  Not 32 per market, my bad, but one per market.

• 2:51Ryan Clark?

  Per team, you have one, so it's 32 teams. I'm fired up for you. I believe that you're a Hall of Famer. I tell you all the time, man, you're one of the best I ever played at any position. And so I know I don't have a vote, but I still feel like when you walk into a room and you ask good football players that played on the other side of the ball, what this dude was like, and they all say, yeah, he was one of them ones. I think that that should carry a lot of weight. So hopefully, you know, that's what happens. And I hope to be there in August as you give your speech. But we got more running backs, though. More running backs.

• 3:23Speaker 02

  Man, I don't know if, you was like the first Android, like, in our generation, when cats, because this was before YouTube and highlights and when you can see cats. But like seeing you for the first time is when me and people I know was like, damn, we ain't no guy make cats like this out here doing this. Where it's like, I didn't even know that was possible, the stuff you was doing, so.

• 3:44Fred Taylor?

  Nah, it's crazy to hear. I mean, you come from another bag, it's crazy to hear. People thought I was small, because I was fat, they thought I was small. But then when the game start, like I purposely ran through the DBs, the other team DB line. They were like, damn, he big.

• 4:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, sure.

• 4:01Ryan Clark?

  Man, that did scare nobody.

• 4:04Speaker 02

  Shoot, you playing, I'm sure.

• 4:06Ryan Clark?

  We already knew how big you were by that point.

• 4:09Fred Taylor?

  Not everybody. But it's true, you know, the word got out.

• 4:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, you see what you got to deal with, that's for real. I'm sure that got to mean something.

• 4:16Ryan Clark?

  Man, nobody worried about that.

• 4:18Fred Taylor?

  I played big, too.

• 4:19Ryan Clark?

  Nah, you was a bad boy, man.

• 4:46Ryan Clark?

  Well, cat's out of the bag now. Rashard Mendenhall is here, guys. This is the last pivot of the year. And this one sort of just, just came up. Not sure how many people are familiar with Rashard. But he's a first-round draft pick of the Pittsburgh Steelers. Started in the Super Bowl 2010, 2011. Finished his career in Arizona. Has gone on to be a writer in Hollywood. A man of immense talents. He used to do pirouettes on the logo in the locker room. We used to mess with him about being a dancer. But he had those sort of feet, too, when he played the game. And you could see that translate to what he did. Recently, Rashard has made news for some tweets.

• 5:28Ryan Clark?

  And you know, we'll get to that, obviously, too, throughout this conversation. I think the first thing I want to ask you is, though, just how are you doing? You know, post-ball, starting a new career, beautiful family as well. How are you doing mentally and emotionally?

• 5:42Speaker 02

  For the longest time, I thought I was good, like, all the way good. Having that new career, having something else to, to do and sink into. And it kind of didn't hit me, you know what I'm saying? Until, until some time, just kind of like that space, it seems like a lot of us end up in after ball. Where it's kind of like that gray area where you're not feeling like yourself or, or feeling exactly like yourself. And somebody's saying, "There's something wrong with that." So, like most guys, waited in the water for some time. And, uh, and, and you know, ex- external factors, people and things chiming in didn't help much. But a- at this point, through the journey I've been on, people I have help, uh, I, I feel, um, pretty good.

• 6:25Speaker 02

  Feel like I'm in a really good space and even, uh, the tweet, as you say, was something that saddled me and waited on me for a long time. And I feel like that's outside of me now and I feel like I can even, even see clearly in my life with, um, with not carrying as much weight. So I, I feel pretty good in the moment.

• 6:41Fred Taylor?

  Our job is to help people, but also more importantly, I think to help our brothers. You know, guys that kind of shared the field and kind of know where we come from, have gone through everything we've gone through. What were some of your triggers after you left the game? What were some of the triggers that sort of allowed you to identify that something's not right? Was it just walking away from a lot of the spotlight? You know, some people like to say, uh, that the situation of the fumble that happened in the, in the Super Bowl might have been a trigger. And I talked to, I believe it was your girlfriend, she reached out.

• 7:18Speaker 02

  My wife.

• 7:18Fred Taylor?

  Or your wife, I'm sorry. She reached out, you know, uh, and which is love because she will always, she just want the best for you. And that's what we do. You know, we have to check in on our people.

• 7:28Speaker 02

  And you helped us out at that time, too. I appreciate you taking up that call.

• 7:31Fred Taylor?

  I'm glad I was able to.

• 7:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, being there for our household. I appreciate that.

• 7:34Fred Taylor?

  So what were some of your triggers that you were able to identify?

• 7:38Speaker 02

  Man, it's like, it don't stop.

• 7:44Speaker 02

  I, I'll go out here and say this, man. I don't know, I don't know if there's a more attacked player in the modern era to me because of a single play from a single game and the fact that social media exists now. It's just like,

• 8:00Speaker 02

  we talk about race and things, man. I'm, I'm reminded of my color every single day. Feel like I wake up, see my wife, my Lebanese wife, kiss her on the forehead, open my phone to check my business.

• 8:15Speaker 02

  And I'm being reminded of a moment that like,

• 8:21Speaker 02

  Like, that shit feel like, like Chinese water torture, just like a little ping over and over and over again. Where

• 8:31Speaker 02

  it don't make me wanna like curl up in a ball and cry. That shit like, i- i- i- it wakes up something else. That, that's something that like, when they say to us like, you are, when they say football is, is what you do, it's not who you are.

• 8:51Speaker 02

  I don't, I don't know if I believe that. I feel like, who and what was made under that helmet? Like, what we created, I feel like that sticks with you. That, that, that animal, that monster, for me, it was a samurai. Like, I feel like, that's the only thing that makes sense. And that's the way I sensed throughout my life. And so, I don't know, I think it's like, as triggering as things are

• 9:18Speaker 02

  in this country anyway, man, it's like, there's this element of like, cause it's not the play, man, I played a million plays, like, like, bummed to play, I did the best I could, I went go to play. It's, it's how I've been treated and what's happened since, that I can't, that I don't feel like it's fair, and I finally like had enough.

• 9:36Ryan Clark?

  So when you say you're, when you say you're reminded of it, is it people tweeting you, people messaging you, who's reminding you of it?

• 9:44Speaker 02

  It's under my name, like, in, in life now, in Google, like, your, your brand, your name is your business, and, and, and to my name, whatever, whatever hashtags, whatever stuff that's associated, I gotta check my business. It's just like I'm seeing the, the same word, like fumble, do you know what I'm saying? Or even people mentioning me at me, that's why I said comments in the thing. I know it's just like, alright, this, this ain't no joke, man, this ain't about the football. When somebody's saying like fumble to me, I know they're like, they're intentionally trying to hurt me, they're intentionally trying to pick at me, a pride. So if somebody say fumble, like alright, I'm like automatically ready to fight, the fuck are you talking about? What are we talking about this for? We, we, we, we, we left that game and, and

• 10:30Speaker 02

  It's supposed to be over.

• 10:33Speaker 02

  But if it's not, alright, I gotta live in this. So like, fuck it, 12 years later, I might have a little attitude about it.

• 10:38Ryan Clark?

  Right. When you say it's supposed to be over, the truth is, it only matters if it's over for us. Right? Because there are people who live, and you played in Pittsburgh with me, right? Like, I know what it is. I know what it is, good and bad.

• 10:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:56Ryan Clark?

  Right? Like, every year, at some point, they're gonna put out a highlight of my tackles or whatever. Like, that's gonna be part of it. And then there're gonna be Baltimore fans that if I say something about Baltimore, they're gonna show the play where Joe Flacco beat me over the top to Torrey Smith to win the game. I think like, those things are, they're part of our resume. They live forever. People are never gonna let that go because people are immature. People are miserable. People don't have their own moment, whether negative or positive, that the world shares, and we do. That's the privilege of doing what we do. So for you, have you been able to let the play go?

• 11:40Speaker 02

  First thing I thought is, is go where? If I'm seeing it in front of me? Like, I don't know, man. I put my life into the game and like, that shit really mean, it means that much to me. Like, the way I approached that game, the way I went out there.

• 11:56Ryan Clark?

  He played well, too.

• 11:57Speaker 02

  I appreciate that.

• 11:58Ryan Clark?

  Played well.

• 11:58Speaker 02

  And honestly, in my mind, in my life, in my body, that's the best game I ever played in my life, seriously. I didn't take a single false step that entire day. That's what I know. That's what I needed to be on that day, and I was.

• 12:14Speaker 02

  That's what I keep in my mind, in my body, in my psyche. To talk about a play, deal with a play. I can accept a play.

• 12:23Speaker 02

  This idea that I'm the cost, I'm the cause, I'm the reason. Like, I lost the ball, yeah, of course. Did I lose the game for my team? I lost the seventh trophy for the Steelers? Like, that's what doesn't sit right and well. And there's like, a small group of people who's almost made it a point to never let me live that doubt, who try and beat me over the head to be like, "You lost the seventh fucking trophy for the Steelers." And for me, like, a team wins, a team loses a game. To single me out and say, "I lost that." Okay, whatever. On what day do you think I'm gonna wake up and believe that I lost the trophy for my team?

• 13:08Speaker 02

  And this person to me, and this got me sitting here, it's like, "All right, my fucking guy y'all looking for." I feel like he's right next to me. We not gonna say that. I feel like he right next to me in another position, but we not gonna say that. I'm not even gonna throw it to him, 'cause it's like, it's not about a single player, it's about a whole team. But if we wanna make me wear that and gonna press me on that, that shit's created something that like, I've never even seen before, in and out of myself. Because if I can't get around it, if I can't shake it, I've had success in other areas. Like, the first time out, when I was to write a script for HBO for Ballers, I wrote thirty pages in four days, with like, late notes, and just killed that shit the whole time, all this stuff, don't none of that matter. Shut up, you still the boy that fumbled. And like, that...

• 13:49Speaker 02

  I don't know, man, maybe I still carry a sword on my back about it.

• 13:52Fred Taylor?

  I think it's two themes that jumps out in my mind. One is disconnect, which is for a lot of reasons, the reason why we're here today. Because you won't put Twitter down. Sometimes we have to disconnect. And that'll sort of minimize, you know, those reminders from the negative side of, or the negative group. The other, the other theme is our team. You keep speaking about team, you know, being in that locker room. The guys who were there practicing with you, the guys who, before the game, you know, they, they envisioned their dream of winning, you know, success. Not one of those guys, I'm pretty sure. If you can look at how the game played out,

• 14:36Fred Taylor?

  um, and as a casual fan, the way I saw it, and then I had to go back and sort of re-review it myself again here, prior to this interview. Just being a casual fan, you can look at and say the entire team lost that game. Sure, your fumble came-

• 14:53Speaker 02

  Isn't that football? Isn't that football?

• 14:56Fred Taylor?

  That's football, that's sport. Your fumble came after you guys started to show momentum. I believe it was 21-17, which was the closest you had gotten. Prior to that, you were battling from behind the entire game. 21 points off turnovers is the reason you guys lost that game. Not just your turnover. The defense gave up some big plays that I'm sure they would like to get back. You gave up 38 yarder, 20 something- No, we gave up plays. So I mean, but that's the sport. That's the sport. I think you have to remind yourself of, even if you go back and watch the game, but remind yourself that, one, it's a team sport. You know, you guys went to war together. You lost together. As simple as that.

• 15:40Speaker 02

  See, that's not what it feels like. It feels like we lost. This is just a feeling. I don't know whatever silo I'm in.

• 15:47Fred Taylor?

  I can't speak for you, I'm sorry.

• 15:48Speaker 02

  Wait, no, no, you're good. You're perfect. Whatever silo it feels like we all lost, but I'm the only nigga that's still in Dallas stadium having to like, because I'm like, it ain't, I know this too, it's a professional game. We sign a contract. We go, it ain't nobody else's responsibility. It's not your responsibility. It's not, well, it's anybody to stand up and say, hey, man, Rashard didn't do this on his own. Like, we all went out there and played. It's not nobody's responsibility to do that. But at the same time, I'm like, damn, where's that at? Like, because I don't know how much you guys know or are seeing. And it's just like, this even feels like weak to say. Like, you talk about bullying and attacks and all this. That'll mess with somebody over time.

• 16:32Speaker 02

  It's like, imagine if like Lizzo's at a concert and she's on stage and there's all these people in the crowd. And she gets up on the stage and somebody on the stage yells the most wild outland- It's like, get off the stage, you fat B-word. Everybody in there is like, whoa, like, yo, calm down. Like, that's clearly, obviously wrong. I'm like, where's that screen? Where's that coat? Where's that protection? That's what my shit look like on any given day. And I'm not even sitting here because I'm like-

• 17:06Speaker 02

  Nigga, I'm not trying to play about it, I'm like, ready to do something about it. Like, I'll fucking, I'd crash my car over this shit, man, with my fucking wife and kids in there. Get out the car, looked at her, like, did I fumble? No, I had the fucking wheel still. Like, for whatever reason, there's a ticker, there's a play that like, okay, if I can't see my way out of, then I'll write my way through. That's why I wrote that tweet. Like, then I'll write my way through, because what am I, like, what am I really saying, like?

• 17:43Ryan Clark?

  But, in that tweet, what were you saying? Because, there's a, there's an opportunity there, if those are the people you're talking to. Because, I, I don't know what you're dealing with, right? If I'm at that concert and somebody yells that out to Lizzo, then I'm able to hear that person. I don't check your Twitter every day. I don't, I don't look at your mentions. And so, there's not an opportunity for us to come to your aid, right? And, you know, I can be, like, we don't speak. You know, so, I'm not knowing that you're going through things. Freddie T. mentioned that to me, I reached out to Kerry Davis, who's also one of our teammates. You know, but you're not necessarily knowing that you're going through it,

• 18:28Ryan Clark?

  or what is the trigger or catalyst of it, you know? So, for you, when you start to pin the tweet, why is it the tweet about that particular situation? And the way that people are attacking you about that particular situation? Because it was the broadness of your tweet that I believe grew, like, drew a certain ire to what you said? And then, this point, which we hope to get out on this show, was totally missed.

• 18:58Speaker 02

  That wasn't meant for everybody that went there, and I wasn't tripping on that. That was meant for my detractors. Like, the amount of disrespect, it was meant for that. Before I keep going, um, this is from, from me to you. This was a few years ago, you were on a talk show, this was probably like 2017. And you said something that like, it seemed like it was in the cause and course of the show that had an effect that greater than I think you may have realized, because I'm in the center of this, where you were in an argument about the Steelers in that game. And you said, we know what happened, Mendenhall lost the game, and you kept going. Mendenhall

• 19:42Speaker 02

  fumbled the ball, he lost the game, something along those lines, and you kept going. And it's like, I know you on there, and you doing TV and playing TV, but it felt like you saying that had a real football ramification. Because before then, there was just fans and people being like, oh, you know, he did that. But then they started saying, even his teammates believed that he lost the game, and that shit ratcheted up. And like, we ain't never had no problems for real, but that's the one thing I had to bring today to, because I carried that. And I watched the turn from people starting to say, even his teammates believed that he lost the game. And your comment was a way to.

• 20:19Ryan Clark?

  Well, I'll say this, I certainly believe that's a part of why we lost the game. I don't believe that one play loses the game. I believe that if I catch the interception that I planned for two weeks, when Greg Jennings scores a touchdown, that helps us win the game. I believe if I lock Keenan Lewis on the backside, when Greg Jennings catches the ball on third down, that we win the game. So there are definitely other, there are plays in that game that I replay all the time, that I've used as film and as assets for my show Inside the NFL. So, but I will say this, if it had that effect on you, I don't remember the moment, but if it had that effect on you, I'm sorry. And especially

• 21:01Ryan Clark?

  if it had that effect where people continued to attack you. And like, in honesty, from a defensive perspective, do I feel like, at that point, with the way you were playing the game, with the way the defense was playing the game, if we don't fumble there, we win? Absolutely. I do feel that way. I could look you in your eyes and say that one play didn't lose the game. Most times, one play does not lose the game. So I do apologize how that affected you. And especially if what I said made other people treat you a certain way. Because that's definitely not something I want to do. So I do apologize.

• 21:39Speaker 02

  I appreciate you apologizing. And I appreciate what you said, for real. And it's, you know, that's just a blip on your radar. That made the news tighter, like, for real. And for me, it's just like,

• 21:57Speaker 02

  how many times I'm gonna wake up and take this? Like, I wasn't born no hoe. Like, how many times I'm gonna wake up and just anybody playing with me? So that's why I said, I'm sick of, and it was descriptive.

• 22:10Fred Taylor?

  Average.

• 22:11Speaker 02

  Average white guys. That's what it seems to be.

• 22:15Fred Taylor?

  It wasn't directed at a player, at an average white player.

• 22:19Speaker 02

  No, no, no, no. It's just the amount of disrespect I see. And I got descriptive of who I tend to see it from. Average white guys commenting, like reflecting the comment section, on not football, but my career. My career, what it was. Like, I got two sons, man, they gonna grow up in the world, wear number 34 jerseys, people saying, "Your dad was sorry, your dad sucked, he lost it." It's like, no, man. At the least, in real football, like, I had a good career. I played a good game. And that was a moment. I had a good career, really good career. And over the span of my life, I had a great career in football. Not just the NFL. When I was a shorty, I used to go visit my cousin on the south side. You know, the older cats be like, "Oh, the shorty's here, man, go get the football. Let's roll that thing out."

• 23:04Speaker 02

  The whole way through, I was cold.

• 23:08Speaker 02

  Commenting on football. And this is the part where it was wide and I was vague. I said, "Y'all not even good at football." I'm still speaking of who I'm talking to. Those average guys who don't play the game, y'all not even good at football. Like, how you speak to me? And I've been excellent throughout my career and throughout my life. Even through that moment, even through the fumble, even through Arizona to when I stopped. Y'all not even good at football.

• 23:39Speaker 02

  And the next line, before there's even that retort, it's like, for all the race I see, if black players reign supreme in this game,

• 23:52Speaker 02

  did maybe please, would I get you to stop saying shit to me? Is that enough for you to stop talking to me? To stop commenting at me? And at the end of it, I'm better than your goat? The only thing I'm saying is, whoever you envision as the best player, greatest player in the game, I'm that good. I'm that good. I'm not just talking about the NFL. I'm talking about through my whole life. I'm talking about through high school, through college. Whoever, I'm that, I've given that much to football. And I'm not just talking about the NFL. No, you say your goat is Freddie T. I'm like, damn.

• 24:25Ryan Clark?

  It's an individual, it's an individual thought and individual thing.

• 24:29Speaker 02

  That was almost like trolling crazy. Like, I was, that was tweet intended to like, smash my detractors. And it was a lot, come on, I'm like, dude, I'm silly. I'm not dumb enough to say, white people aren't good at football. That's obvious. Like, but I was fucking like, on a level enough to be like, alright, if we reign supreme, would that be enough for you to leave me the fuck alone? That's what I'm saying.

• 24:53Fred Taylor?

  If it came from the other side, or if it came from a white player in that same, you know, format, then we or our people would naturally say, oh, that is highly racist, right?

• 25:05Speaker 02

  So, okay, I don't think that would work.

• 25:07Fred Taylor?

  I mean, I just wanna, that's just my opinion.

• 25:10Speaker 02

  You got it, you got it.

• 25:11Fred Taylor?

  Even within that, even with your detractors or the people that attacked you, there are also a certain population of black people in there too, that probably feel that type of way. Cause last I checked, there's still a fanbase. They're, they're so supportive, one of the best fanbases in all the sports, in my opinion. But I'm talking about white, black, other. You know, so, I'm pretty sure they've come to your page. What I want you to do is just disconnect completely from fucking Twitter. Not that you're running from your life either. You have to learn how to, just learn to avoid certain things that are gonna rile you up. And then take yourself to better places. But my question to you really is this, being that you're a writer,

• 25:54Fred Taylor?

  and how do you envision that segregation mode?

• 26:00Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends. Like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest, or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an ultra. Because it's not just a superior like beer, it's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 26:31Fred Taylor?

  That was, when I saw the tweet when RC sent it over, I was like, what the fuck is this?

• 26:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, I never, I never really envisioned it. Like, like, that's, that's literally just a figment of a writing imagination to be like, I wasn't even envisioning a game, actually. I didn't until like, people started making the team stuff. I'm like, oh shit. And I'm like, damn, and that's, damn, that's kind of messed up because it's the segregation bowl. It's the racial bowl. It's messed up. So I didn't even envision a game. I was only envisioning the same person that keeps speaking at me. That I'm like, what will it take to make you stop? Like, what will it take to make you stop if like, all right, if the black team beat y'all dead, could you at least stop adding me and tweeting me? And saying, I'm sorry, I'm trash? Can I then be on the winning team? And then can I be on the winning team?

• 27:17Fred Taylor?

  The fumble still would be there.

• 27:19Speaker 02

  It's like just this feeling, the fumble is cool. I'm cool with that. It's just like this idea that I'm an entire loser because of it. That's what like, like, that's what.

• 27:30Ryan Clark?

  But we lose when we let them win. And that means whether it's, whether it's me, whether it's the, the average white guy who's tweeting you because he's sitting at his house, or he's sitting at his desk, or he's sitting with his wife, or wherever he is, and he's not catching the vitriol you're catching for that tweet. I know you, right?

• 27:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:51Ryan Clark?

  I know your wife.

• 27:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:53Ryan Clark?

  Right? Like, I know that this man that's speaking is not racist.

• 27:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:57Ryan Clark?

  Right?

• 27:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:58Ryan Clark?

  But I also know in reading that tweet, it's a racist tweet. Right?

• 28:03Speaker 02

  It's a racial. I don't know if it's racist.

• 28:06Ryan Clark?

  Racist, right? Racism is believing that you are inferior to another race based on your skin color. Your tweet was, the skin color of the more superior athlete is darker. Right? So, so in a sense, it was like, it wasn't discrimination that you can't go. It wasn't the racism we see in America where white people who hold certain positions because of the generational, the, the, the, the history of racism that have put them there, right? They keep us with the glass sill. I'm not talking about that. But just from the simple, mundane, everyday thing I have to fight against in the sense of like, no, if, if a white player said that,

• 28:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:52Ryan Clark?

  I would get after him. I would. Right? And it's, but it's the history of oppression. In the same way, I talked to Chris Long about it, obviously Will Compton. None of them had that attachment to it because they understood the history of this country. But from you, in saying it that way, I felt like it did detract from what your point is now. Right? And then, what I hated the most about it, but was probably the good thing, it turned it into a joke, and I don't want you to be a joke.

• 29:20Speaker 02

  I feel it.

• 29:20Ryan Clark?

  Right? And so when you are trying to address the people who are saying these things to you, what is going to be your route of finding a way to not let that affect you? Because it's not gonna stop, especially now. Right? Now, now that you've put the tweet out, and I know, and if I, if this is what my life has been anyway, and I know I'm winning, now I'm coming harder. I'm coming with more, and it's gonna get more racial because you brought in the race.

• 29:53Speaker 02

  Man, if you, um,

• 29:56Speaker 02

  like, my, my messages, my mentions still haven't stopped.

• 29:59Ryan Clark?

  I know.

• 29:59Speaker 02

  From there. And the thing is, it's like, the difference is, it's like,

• 30:07Speaker 02

  I've been getting this before I sent that tweet out. So I'm seeing it, and it's like...

• 30:14Speaker 02

  Man, I'm

• 30:17Speaker 02

  I'm only thinking of seeing Tupac's man thug like the hate you gave little infants fucks everybody. It's like I'm seeing

• 30:29Speaker 02

  I'm seeing the same thing sent my way that caused the tweet. I'm seeing the same thing over and over. It's like they say like I don't even like they say hurt people hurt people. It's just like it ain't never mattered.

• 30:42Ryan Clark?

  Did you think it was gonna stop after the tweet though Rashad?

• 30:45Speaker 02

  Oh, no, no. Here's the here's the here's the crazy part and here's the dope part. It ended for me because I said some shit. I'm gee, I it's been outside of me since then, man. I've been walking around during the day. I'm chilling. It that came out of me because I felt like I was quiet for the longest time and took whatever came. And I'm just like how, when you say right, how somebody in the stands on a couch, wherever they at, get to suppress, believe they better than me because I went out there and did my best in a damn football game. Ain't that what sports about? I went out there and did my best. I went out there and did my best, my absolute best. And somebody can sit back and say they are superior to me because I did my best. Man, that ain't never sat right.

• 31:30Speaker 02

  And it's felt like a an imbalance or a slant. I said that and it was this was this wasn't even I couldn't even see any people. I wasn't writing to anybody. This was me and myself. I said that for myself. And it's like and it came and it went out and it had an effect like and

• 31:48Speaker 02

  I don't feel like I gotta say anything.

• 31:50Ryan Clark?

  It's well, I will say this.

• 31:52Speaker 02

  Anymore.

• 31:52Ryan Clark?

  It's 100% worth it then. If if sending that tweet freed you, it is 100% worth it and you know, when

• 32:03Speaker 02

  That's major.

• 32:04Ryan Clark?

  No, when you

• 32:05Speaker 02

  That's major.

• 32:05Ryan Clark?

  Bro, like I think like the the freedom of self is the greatest freedom in the world because as as free as they say this country is, it's not. We aren't always, and not even from the legalities, not even from the racism or the discrimination. It's just the freedom to be yourself, right? The, the freedom to live and not be judged.

• 32:30Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 32:30Ryan Clark?

  Right? Like, that's the existence we all walk in, bro. And so if sending that tweet, no matter what came from it, no matter what the conversations are around it, even if it doesn't stop people from messaging you, if you could wake up in the morning and the first thing be, not be in your mind, "I fumbled", that's all the freedom you need. Because you need a freedom to be better for your wife. You need a freedom to be better for your three kids. You need a freedom to be better for your boys, right? Like, you need a freedom to be able to move around in the space where you can be your best self. Because unfortunately, man, those people send that tweet, Shar, and they don't think about us afterwards.

• 33:08Ryan Clark?

  Right? They don't care how it affects you. They don't care, they don't think to themselves, "I wonder what his day's like now." You know what they do? They gonna live with they family.

• 33:15Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 33:16Ryan Clark?

  Right? They gonna make they wife happy. They gonna make their kids happy. And so, bro, that freed you, man. I am so, so happy for you. And I am so, so sorry that I added to that, because I never meant that.

• 33:27Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, I appreciate that.

• 33:28Ryan Clark?

  And I wish you to call me then.

• 33:29Fred Taylor?

  I appreciate that.

• 33:30Ryan Clark?

  Because like that, man, we all have, if we were all judged by our toughest moments, like, none of us would be successes. You know, and, and what I said about you when it started, your feet, man, you were as talented of a back that we ever had on that team. And I was there eight years. And so the fact that that's what you remember, man, and what you take with you, bro, I, I am really, like, I, I truly, truly, truly am, am sorry. And I wish you would have reached out, or wish somebody would have told me. Because the one thing I never have a problem with is saying I'm wrong. And if I did that to you, and you felt that I was wrong.

• 34:13Fred Taylor?

  We had Coach Tumlin on the show, and I asked him, I'm like, "Yo..." I was looking for a phone call from the Steelers when I was a free agent, which was that season.

• 34:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:24Fred Taylor?

  And unfortunately, I didn't get that call because they had a good running back that they felt they can depend on.

• 34:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:30Fred Taylor?

  You know, and again, just going back replaying that game, you had an amazing game. You have to be careful creating certain narratives in your mind, considering how much of a good writer you've been and that you are. You're a very creative person, so you have to kind of caution yourself with, you know, how you kind of write those things upstairs. But I want to go to post tweet. You made an apology where you said you didn't mean to or you didn't intend

• 34:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, towards our guys, towards our brothers.

• 35:00Fred Taylor?

  To be little or less than white football players.

• 35:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 35:02Fred Taylor?

  And then you came back and said, but in all honesty, they know that.

• 35:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:07Fred Taylor?

  So I want to ask you, in your apology, like, what did you really intend? Because it seems that you sort of moved the goalpost when you added the but, they know that, because I don't think they did or they do.

• 35:19Speaker 02

  I feel you. So I tip my cat salute to all my football brothers, every color, every creed, whatever the case. This wasn't about them. I think this is a case where because of what happened to me personally, like, I became selfish in the way I used the game. And even my brothers, even you was just like, all right, am I that good to be the all-white team? No, I'm not. You better than me. You're better than me. Like, I needed you. I needed you. I needed, I needed, I needed DK Metcalf. I needed everybody just to help, like, help me stop what was tormenting me. And I believe that was selfish.

• 36:01Speaker 02

  So it's like, I, like, it wasn't, it wasn't meant to racially lessen that. I did use my brothers, black and white, as pawns in an issue that was mine and my own. And even what you said in the tweet, like, nobody asked you. It was like, you know what? That's right. That wasn't fair for me. I got prerogative to speak, but it wasn't fair for me to bring everybody in the game in because that game means something so natural, so real, and so pure. And what was happening off the field allowed me to mix the two, and that's wrong. Because I'm like, I'm like, man, help. I said, of course, they know that. Because I'm like, if you know me, ain't no damn way I'm watching Remember the Titans and to see what that, what that fucking film did. See what that film did and leave there and want to go back to that. Oh, yeah, let's be how they was before. Like, who want to do that? Of course, I don't. But like,

• 36:45Speaker 02

  Like it was selfish. It was selfish for me to bring all the players in, black and white, like to be like, to prove, to prove a point that like, I don't really know. I don't know if it made things better or worse.

• 36:57Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, you know.

• 36:58Speaker 02

  But, yeah.

• 36:58Ryan Clark?

  I routinely stand up for us publicly.

• 37:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:04Ryan Clark?

  You know, and I've done it so much, whether it be through 2020, Kaepernick's protests, whatever it is, it's like from the other side, I get, oh, you're racist. But I'm always like, no, I just want, I want fairness. I want equality. And the perspective I understand more than anything is our perspective. I said, so I try to bring that sort of awareness to the forefront. And then obviously, when this starts, I can be honest, like I was nervous when people were even trying to joke with me about it because, yeah, I got, I have my opinions and we did it on our last show with three men, but I was like, if I get in on this or if I start in on the joke, well, people then turn it on me and say, okay, now you're being racist or now you're being dismissive for things that are true, right? Like J.J. Watt can say it.

• 37:48Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, none of them could cover Tyreek. He could say it and he can make that joke, but it's different coming from me. And that was why, and even though like when Will tweeted me, like I was like, okay, if this was a white man who made this tweet, I would have something to say. But even in that, I couldn't, at least publicly in that form until being able to be in front of you, I wasn't going to make you a racist, right? Because I understood if I say that, now everybody else jumps on that. So I just said it was unnecessarily divisive.

• 38:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 38:18Ryan Clark?

  Right? Which it was.

• 38:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 38:20Ryan Clark?

  When you talk about it, but it's also like, there is, like for me, there's a certain, there's a certain debt owed and a certain sense of loyalty that I have to all of us. And that's all of our football brothers, but definitely us personally. And so I think that for you, man, to come down and sit with us and clear those things up, that was important. And when Kerry reached out to me, I was like, absolutely, I'll get in touch with them and call them, uh, cause I wanted to give you this space. But we also want to use you, about to use you now, right? About to use you.

• 38:51Fred Taylor?

  Whatever happened with these promos and it's not my responsibility. I don't know who responsible. Hopefully it gets chopped up or either people just watch.

• 39:00Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, they'll watch.

• 39:01Fred Taylor?

  The entire episode so they can hear, you know, pretty much go over your intentions and what you really meant about your tweet. But much like R.C. was probably going to say.

• 39:13Fred Taylor?

  We've had some stuff follow us. So I believe he's gonna use you in that, in that fashion.

• 39:18Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, so, you know. Yeah, so you, you know, you came out and you said that and now you've had these moments where people continue to keep your name involved in those tweets, in those messages. Recently, Freddie T was being messy, right?

• 39:37Fred Taylor?

  What? I said, don't let.

• 39:40Ryan Clark?

  Okay, I was being, what I thought was funny.

• 39:44Fred Taylor?

  Instigation song.

• 39:45Ryan Clark?

  What I, what I thought was funny, so we had Jonathan Owens, Simone Biles on the show. Jonathan Owens, safety for the Packer, he's married to Simone Biles.

• 39:52Fred Taylor?

  Most definitely.

• 39:52Ryan Clark?

  Channing asked him about their origin story. The origin story was on dating app and she reached out to him first. He says he didn't know who she was. I made a face because I was like, well, Simone Biles, everybody knows who she is. But anyway, it goes on, we have a great moment that was fun. And when we made that a promo, we made it a promo because we thought it was fun. We thought people would look at the way she looked at him and smiled and the way he looked at her and then realize as you watch the rest of the show, how this man says this woman has poured into his entire life. And people would be like, this is just love, right? She could flip, he could play football. They don't care about that because they love each other, right? They get to see the ugly of each other, they get to see the worst and learn to love that.

• 40:37Ryan Clark?

  So we thought it was this cool moment and, you know, we have been part of what they said is tearing a woman down or not lifting her up. So when you think about relationships and you think those two and him saying, we joked, he's like, wow, the men always the catch. How do you see the way that celebrities are judged on their personal life? Or how people attack celebrities on their personal life or their words the way you are in a situation like?

• 41:36Speaker 02

  Man, the way you explain that was great. It seems like such a reach. I can't even, because I'm not a part of that moment, other than what you said. I can't even take, like, how, or, or, or grasp how, if, if they're vibing and they're talking about their origin, and the moment in real time was felt as love, and it's funny, and it's that, it just feels like a reach for that to be anything else outside of people being like, like tearing down women, like, as this man's right next to his lady. And if she don't feel like that, I don't understand how that's the case, or that's a reality. And I know the internet does that. That just seems like a reach or a projection, based off something, there could be people out there tearing women down. That's probably true. Does that sound like one of those scenarios? No, it doesn't.

• 42:21Fred Taylor?

  I think aside from that, because we certainly don't tear women down. We always speak life into, to women, much like you guys are speaking to your love story. It's still his love story. We were talking about Simone and Jonathan's love story, and they sort of talked about their origin and laid everything out, which they had already done before. But people are so fixated on celebrity, that they value and weigh their lives on celebrity. If, if, if Jonathan was equally as popular.

• 42:51Ryan Clark?

  Equally as successful.

• 42:53Fred Taylor?

  As successful. Yeah, but then you have to go back and weigh success. Because in his eyes, he might feel like he's as successful because he's achieved, he was undrafted. He went to a very small college, and now he's playing safety for the Green Bay Packers, right? And then Simone, everyone knows what Simone does. Certainly from 2016 to now, they know what she's done. And a lot of people have jumped on that bandwagon because of it. She's a woman, it's encouraging. She had gone through, you know, her mental health challenges, and she bounced back from that, and she's the greatest of the greatest, and always have, and probably always will be considered the greatest. It shouldn't minimize Jonathan, and how he feels about his wife, or how he tells the story,

• 43:35Fred Taylor?

  or how he jokingly talks about how they met and him being the catch. I doubt he really feels that he was the catch, like, oh, she chased me down. I don't, I don't think that. That's the case. Yeah, yeah. But they, she was there and they jokingly have said it before. How they met, how she slid in a DM. How everything's come to fruition. But you have people that shouldn't even be invested in their relationship. Yeah, yeah. Because one, they're public figures. Of course. And she is way up here in a lot of people's eyes and he isn't. But again, it shouldn't minimize who he is as a person. Because one, he loves his lady, his wife. Yeah. That's all that people should identify for as and should commend him.

• 44:18Fred Taylor?

  But to talk about divorce him now and make sure the prenup is handy and all that stuff. Wow. It, it, for me, it was a bit insensitive. You know, and, and I think I saw one word in the comments, probably overkill. They kept saying, this is so cringe. This is cringe, cringe, cringe. Like, I don't want to see the word no more. Yeah. Because I was out there, kind of a little bit like you. Yeah. In defense mode, because I didn't feel like he deserved that. Because the man genuinely loved his wife. We didn't even expect her to be there. Yeah, especially from the moment. You know, we did an interview with him. It was with him. The timing was perfect. They were playing the Giants on a Monday night. And they had already set it up. It had nothing to do with Simone. Although, we would love to have that interview at some point someday. Yeah, yeah.

• 45:03Fred Taylor?

  But again, it was all totally about J O.

• 45:06Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 45:06Fred Taylor?

  That kind of went left.

• 45:07Ryan Clark?

  I think the thing for me was, I reached out to Jonathan because I felt the synergy with him. He was an undrafted free agent safety. I was an undrafted free agent safety. We were both, we had both been cut. And I watched him play on Thanksgiving and it just reminded me of, of myself. And they kept calling, saying that he was undrafted, but also saying who he was married to.

• 45:28Fred Taylor?

  Okay.

• 45:28Ryan Clark?

  And so I reached out to him, because I even tweeted that day. I said, eventually, they're gonna just start calling him Jonathan Owens.

• 45:34Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 45:35Ryan Clark?

  And I reached out for that reason. When she showed up, none of us knew, because we're thinking road trip, right? And most times on road trips, the guys are by themselves and we expected him to come. But their relationship is that tight, that that's the way they roll. The thing, I will say this about Jonathan and Simone. I was disappointed in me.

• 45:58Ryan Clark?

  Because I don't like to be misunderstood. I don't like to make other people be misunderstood. My intentions were to have a fun-loving moment because she was there.

• 46:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:09Ryan Clark?

  Right?

• 46:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:09Ryan Clark?

  Because she's there, because she can speak for herself, because she can interact, because we can all interact. It felt like being at a family reunion, bro, and talking to your little nephew and to your little niece about how they met.

• 46:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:21Ryan Clark?

  And that was, and that was the vibe of it. And to me, it was the beauty of it didn't matter who they were. I think people look at celebrities and forget that they're just human. Her immense talent as a gymnast doesn't make her someone that's not flesh and bone. His ability to play ball and maybe not be at the level that she is in doesn't lessen his value as a man, especially to her.

• 46:46Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 46:46Ryan Clark?

  And in the end.

• 46:47Speaker 02

  And they may be really sensitive to that, even in knowing that, what she does and what he does. And, and kind of him being lessened through that. So it seems like she can even maybe let him have a little bit more of the shine to kind of balance that out if you're in a relationship.

• 47:00Ryan Clark?

  And I think, though, that's what, especially, you know, obviously, black women are the most devalued gender and humans in America. They really are. And so I think when you do have a Simone Biles, it's like having a Beyonce, having a Serena. It's like, oh, in this in particular, we're the best of the best. And it can't be denied. And it should be valued by everybody that way. But he's not marrying a gymnast. He's marrying Simone Biles. And that's who he supported in 2020 when all of us or when all those people were talking about why she would back out. He was on the phone with her. He spent time with her. And so I think just for me, it was like when Fred Taylor,

• 47:41Ryan Clark?

  who's one of the best running backs of all time, picks his wife, nobody asks what she does. Nobody says, well, the woman Fred married, who is highly successful. Nobody asks, though, how many touchdowns has she scored? Or is she as good at her job as Fred is at his job? But for some reason, because this black woman is so accomplished, we now have to compare her to her husband. We now gotta make that a competition. And I think that was the sad part about it. Fella, this is the best time of year. It's time to go bowling. But you can't go bowling without our partners over at DraftKings. And any new customers signing up right now on the DraftKings Sportsbook app, use the promo code PIVOT, place a $5 bet,

• 48:25Ryan Clark?

  and get $150 in bonus bets instantly.

• 48:28Channing Crowder?

  And watching these bowls, now think about it. Now, you've seen your team all season. You know who's gonna ball, who's not gonna ball.

• 48:33Ryan Clark?

  What about the new guys, though, Chan?

• 48:35Channing Crowder?

  I don't know about the new guys. But you know what I do? I know about them same-game parlays. The same-game parlays. I've been playing all year. Multiple bets in the same game. You have weeks to do your research. Maybe it's bowl week.

• 48:46Fred Taylor?

  That's right. Listen, what are you guys waiting on? We've been a DK partner for a year and a half. We keep telling y'all, download the app. Download the DraftKings Sportsbook app right now. Go get to it.

• 48:58Ryan Clark?

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• 49:05Fred Taylor?

  Question, 2023, because this story traveled with that. And it was a joke. Can men be the catch? And also, taken away from tradition, can women pursue men? Like, should they pursue men? And which, what Simone says, she actually did in their situation.

• 49:27Speaker 02

  Yeah. So, in their situation, if that... Because even before, I've only known a little bit about their story from before they were on the pivot. But I've always kind of had that idea or understanding that she was in pursuit of him. And I just kind of always felt like that was some like, just like a dog in her. You know, so not like in a bad way, just like, okay, she know what she wants. Like, she's... Relationships can happen all different types of ways. And we're hearing a story, seeing a story of the way it happened for them. And it may be a little bit different. And I feel like...

• 50:00Speaker 02

  However, that love is met, however that match is found, like, how could you get mad at the fact that they match? How can you get mad at the fact that they vibe, based depending off of how it happened, or somebody thinking it should have happened different? Or with him believing, or, or, or just like anybody should, that he's a catch because of what he means to himself, that she's a catch as well because of who she is. And I feel like anybody can feel like that, men being a catch, or, or women being a catch. I think if you're on a date and that's how you're operating, you're trying to catch them. I don't, I don't know if that answered the question. Yeah. But, but I feel like, no, I feel like their, their story is dope, and I don't even know how that can be taken out. That just seems like, like you say with celebrities

• 50:45Speaker 02

  and people obsession with celebrities, it seems like sometimes or oftentimes celebrities become like a canvas, like a canvas for people's projections on, on what they feel, experiences they had, things that they think, and they just apply it to whatever situation that they can see that mirrors in any way a, a little fraction of something else that they've seen, and they say, okay, I've identified this, I've diagnosed this, this is what this is.

• 51:08Ryan Clark?

  Celebrity, celebrities become a source of entertainment at all times.

• 51:12Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 51:13Ryan Clark?

  You're, you are meant for my entertainment, which means you should be pawns in the way that I believe this story should be told.

• 51:21Speaker 02

  What's that?

• 51:21Ryan Clark?

  And if that story is told a different way from my expectations, now my personal story weighs into my criticism of that.

• 51:30Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 51:30Ryan Clark?

  The personal story of how I feel about you, or how I feel about you, and the way I feel like this should go, now becomes my criticism of how you live your life.

• 51:39Speaker 02

  What's that?

• 51:40Ryan Clark?

  When, instead of looking internally and saying, what about me makes me, one, so invested in this? And, two, makes me feel so emotionally wronged by something that has nothing to do with me?

• 51:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:56Ryan Clark?

  Why is it cringe-worthy to you? Why is it disrespectful to you? Why is it any of these things when clearly it's not to her? And then as far as to project, well, you don't know what's going on in their house. Neither do you.

• 52:11Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 52:11Ryan Clark?

  What I do know is I spent two hours with them, and I thought it was beautiful.

• 52:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:17Ryan Clark?

  You know, moving on to what I want to talk about as well is Russell Wilson. Russell Wilson is now the backup quarterback for the Denver Broncos. This is two years after signing a $258 million contract, two years after the Broncos trading away picks in order to get him.

• 52:37Ryan Clark?

  A year into, or the first year of Sean Payton's tenure as head coach. And the speculation is he will also be released in May.

• 52:48Ryan Clark?

  When you look at Russ's situations, Fred, what are your thoughts on how the season has gone for him, how this time in Denver has gone for him? And now seeing him being benched and possibly let go and march?

• 53:02Fred Taylor?

  It comes across as if he's on board to be the scapegoat. Russ started playing really good ball. I think they're 6-3 in their last nine games. Yeah, you question would they have made this move if they had not lost to the Patriots, right? And I don't know the answer to that, but they lost and it seemed perfect timing for them. But then a lot of other stuff became uncovered. You know, and this is a guy who has won Super Bowl. You know, he's been the face of the league for a while. I know before the season, well, before this season started, people were saying Russ was done. But he had actually shown some glimpses of old Russell Wilson. And pretty much carried this team. I think management, you got to question Denver's management.

• 53:47Fred Taylor?

  I think Sean Payton is...

• 53:52Fred Taylor?

  The amount of money they pay him, he has a lot, he has a lot of, not a lot of decisions to make. But I think his decisions carry all the weight in that building. I don't know about the football ops people in there, but his decisions, top-down, based on what he's done in his career, and what they expect him to get back to. What he's saying is Russ is completely done. He's not, and we don't project him in our future. He's done. But again, I think he's the scapegoat. I think they're still on the books and they owe him a ton of money. It's wrong. If I can sum it up in one word, I think it's wrong. Because he was playing lights out. Who are you gonna find to replace him? And he's still on the books, you know, to receive that compensation, those salaries.

• 54:37Speaker 02

  Especially at this point in the season, seeing that interview from Jerry Judy saying that the locker room was surprised. That kind of really jumped out to me that they weren't anticipating or expecting that. So in their mind, that was still their guy. Thinking about the fact that they're third in the division and still got like hopes, like playoff hopes. I'm not like, when it comes to the quarterback position, making a change like this late, like you say, like, like, like he may be lining up to be their scapegoat. And something that I seen that came from RG3, where if Russ wasn't his guy anyway from the beginning, is Jared Stidham, is that their like long-term plan for the future? Is that the guy they want to go with?

• 55:20Speaker 02

  Or is this to make a point before the year is out that Russ was never his guy? But seeing this scenario situation, I feel like the next few games will. I feel like there's gonna be a microscope on Denver seeing these next few games to see, you know, whether that move was warranted or not. And even seeing the, the press conferences where, where Sean Payton is making that call. He don't seem to like, I don't know if I want to say sure or confident about the, about, you know what I'm saying? About what he's saying to do, or to maybe know there's some kind of feeling in that locker room, but maybe this isn't the right thing to do.

• 55:49Ryan Clark?

  Bottom line is it, man, like Sean Payton has been a bully ever since receiving this job. And not the, the bully sense like Russ can't whip him, because I believe he can. Sean Payton's an old man. But we watched Russell Wilson get beat down an entire season. And some of the criticism was warranted because he didn't play well. And then Sean Payton immediately came in and started punching down on him. And now for whatever you've heard about Russ having offices, Russ having coaches, his own personal coaches in the locker room last year, that's not who he's been this year. When he was asked to do something different, he did something different.

• 56:30Ryan Clark?

  And now this is a man before going to Denver that was going to be a, a first-ballot Hall of Famer. Right, Russ had been to nine Pro Bowls already. Russ had won a Super Bowl. We were talking about Russ as one of the greatest of this era. And so now, when you deal with Sean Payton, that was never his dude. When you look at the way Sean Payton addressed Russell Wilson on the sideline against the Detroit Lions, he never talked to Drew Brees like that. Whether Drew Brees threw no picks or two picks, he never handled him in the public like that. You never heard of that man telling Drew Brees, "You gotta stop kissing babies." Drew Brees kissed more babies in New Orleans than anybody. Now, did he play well? Absolutely. But you look at the way Russell Wilson,

• 57:14Ryan Clark?

  to me, this shows the ultimate class, humility, and professionalism from Russell Wilson. That man knew two months ago he was playing for his job. They called him and told him, and spoke to his representation and wanted him to restructure his contract. So he knew if he didn't play well, this was what was going to happen. And that man never said a word. That man went out there and gave his everything to this team. He changed the way he played football. He got slimmer. He ran the football when he needed to. He made the big throws when he needed to. Now, I don't think he played great, but I do think he played better, and I think he deserves, or thought he deserved to be treated better. This man publicly berated him.

• 57:58Ryan Clark?

  He berated him on the sidelines, treated him like trash. And you know as well as I know, starting quarterbacks who can't play don't get treated like that. At every turn, Sean Payton let the entire world know that this wasn't his guy. And that's okay if he's not. But you don't have to punch down on him just because you want to prove a point. You want to get away from the money being guaranteed in 2025? Fine, do that. But I think there's a professional way to go about that. And the true professional in this situation was always Russell Wilson. I have zero respect for Sean Payton and the way he goes about his business.

• 58:39Ryan Clark?

  The one Super Bowl you won, the one Super Bowl you've been through, been to, right? And the rest of the losing seasons you had in New Orleans? Those don't allow you to treat people like that.

• 58:51Fred Taylor?

  Correct.

• 58:51Ryan Clark?

  He's just lucky he had the right one. Because somebody else would have checked him on it and at least gonna say, you gonna respect me and treat me in the way I deserve, in the way I've earned, the way I respect and treat you in the way you earn. And so like, I think it is total bull crap, the way Sean Payton behaved, but I thought it was bull crap the entire time.

• 59:11Fred Taylor?

  I mean, they're trying to get out of that bad move they made. And not, not necessarily a bad move in the sense that Russ didn't necessarily live up to that deal. They, they made the move, they gave away the organization. And now he's gonna hunt them for years. Uh, I don't think they're gonna have the cap space to maneuver much. Because he's still on the books. You let him go, he's not there, he's still on the books. For sure. So it's just, you know, it's top down. You know, you gotta check the front office on that.

• 59:39Ryan Clark?

  Frank T.

• 59:39Fred Taylor?

  You'll get the last laugh.

• 59:40Ryan Clark?

  Cam text you to be on his show?

• 59:43Fred Taylor?

  I don't know if he texts AZ or you or somebody.

• 59:46Ryan Clark?

  He texts you to be on the show?

• 59:47Fred Taylor?

  Listen.

• 59:48Ryan Clark?

  Debo say, stop texting me, man.

• 59:51Fred Taylor?

  I saw Cam, uh, respond on Twitter.

• 59:53Ryan Clark?

  That wasn't Cam.

• 59:55Fred Taylor?

  That was AI?

• 59:56Ryan Clark?

  It was, uh, supposedly it was some kids who got Debo's number and were just playing on his phone.

• 1:00:03Fred Taylor?

  Oh, I thought you were saying that wasn't Cam that responded.

• 1:00:05Ryan Clark?

  No, that wasn't.

• 1:00:06Fred Taylor?

  AI is too good.

• 1:00:07Ryan Clark?

  Nah, it wasn't, uh, it wasn't Cam that texted him. But you know what's so funny about where we are? Debo addressed Michael Parsons and he also addressed Cam Newton.

• 1:00:18Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 1:00:19Ryan Clark?

  We live in a I got you world that's full of people who are getting got. They wanna be so quick and you wanna be so fast to respond and you wanna make sure you say what you gotta say before someone else says what they have to say. And you wanna defend yourself and defend your people and do all these things. And sometimes we haven't sat back and gathered the information. And so then, when you then open your mouth and now the entire world can see into what you're living in because you want them to, because you think you're winning.

• 1:00:53Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 1:00:53Ryan Clark?

  Right? Then you realize, hold on, maybe I jumped out there a little too quick and it's like... Everybody now has a voice. Like, we live in that world. We didn't play in that world. We didn't have voices, right? Like, the person, the people that's gonna be trying to get you into the Hall of Fame, those were your voices, those were our voices. And so now that that has changed, I think we all need to take a step back because we've become, and me included, we've become drunk off of the power to write our own narratives.

• 1:01:27Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 1:01:28Ryan Clark?

  And I think because of that, we're writing stories, or we're starting stories, that we don't have an outline of the ending to.

• 1:01:40Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, that's deep.

• 1:01:41Ryan Clark?

  You know, and I think that's where we're starting to fall into.

• 1:01:44Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, yeah. You know, you gotta commend Cam for, you know, just a week ago, he made those comments about Brock Purdy. And then he came back this week. He took some time to kinda take a deep breath and responded to Debo, you know, letting him know it wasn't me that text you. I did make those comments about your quarterback. But I still welcome the conversation, you know, and if you feel this way about me, I don't feel that way about you. I'm still a fan, I still love you. We gotta be able to have those conversations where you do take time and don't just rush to Twitter and let things rip because they do have that rippling effect. Hence, again, the reason why we are here today. Because I was chilling. I thought I was about to ride into the new year. We was done taping shows.

• 1:02:30Fred Taylor?

  We missing Chan, like, everybody was booked for other stuff.

• 1:02:34Ryan Clark?

  Alicia made us work.

• 1:02:35Fred Taylor?

  You know what I'm saying? And A C was like, hey, look, we got an opportunity to do some stuff, man. But I wanna say, bro, I have always been a fan. You know, I, from afar, I've seen you run the ball.

• 1:02:47Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:48Fred Taylor?

  I know you can do that really well. I was a huge fan of Ballers.

• 1:02:52Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:52Fred Taylor?

  You know, so you're very creative, you know, at your writing. And I was surprised to even hear that you wrote for Ballers. But that's, that's pretty dope. And again, man, Figure out how to disconnect. You know, just learn how to disconnect from social media. You know, because you got people that's gonna keep jigging at you. Regardless, especially more now. You know, Simone made a text or a tweet. She's like, y'all done? You know, and now people like, nah, we ain't done. We're just getting started. So those things got a poor fuel on the fire. I got it when I check my Wikipedia. I go and look at my stats and compare them against other people's stat. My nickname is Fragile Fred. And I don't give a fuck.

• 1:03:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03:34Fred Taylor?

  Because guess who got their last laugh? Me.

• 1:03:36Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:03:36Fred Taylor?

  I played 13 years and now somehow I'm an NFL Hall of Fame fan.

• 1:03:41Speaker 02

  Man, bump that. You the hardest Fred. The hardest Fred. That's how I know. You the hardest Fred, G.

• 1:03:46Fred Taylor?

  So it's all love.

• 1:03:47Ryan Clark?

  It's the Freddie T question of the year. We're not gonna ask you about New Year's resolutions. We're gonna ask you, in your life, what has been your biggest pivot? What is the moment that you will point to as you go forward in 2024? Not that you're gonna do something different, but that's gonna help and propel you to be the best Rashard Mendenhall you've been in a long time?

• 1:04:14Speaker 02

  Right away, it's clear.

• 1:04:18Speaker 02

  My biggest pivot, being here with you guys and freedom. Freedom going into this new year from what I've allowed. Talk about disconnected to, to kind of infiltrate, be a part of my ecosystem in my, in my world of my life. Man, you've offered some perspective that I hadn't had. And even freedom of you saying like, you sorry? And that, that, that if you added anything, it's just like from, from that standpoint, from you saying, and I just had a Jim Brown, my Jim Brown moment, when you saying you a fan of me. It's just like, I know I have enough right here to not carry, to not carry that negative, that, that negative narrative in my mind. And so literally being here on a pivot has allowed me to pivot to freedom

• 1:05:03Speaker 02

  and, and getting that tweet out, like you said. If that was enough, then I'm gonna let that be enough.

• 1:05:09Fred Taylor?

  I love that, man.

• 1:05:10Speaker 02

  Yes, sir.

• 1:05:11Fred Taylor?

  Appreciate you, my boy.

• 1:05:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, I appreciate you.

• 1:05:13Fred Taylor?

  I'm like your Jim Brown.

• 1:05:16Speaker 02

  No, no, man, that's... No, no, that's... Man, I appreciate you, brother.

• 1:05:20Fred Taylor?

  So, really like your Jim Brown?

• 1:05:22Speaker 02

  That's me, man, come on, man. You know who you is.

• 1:05:25Fred Taylor?

  Hey, listen, bro, you still in the gym too, I see. You still hitting them weights, knocking them weights down. Nah, seriously though, um, just, man, just, um, from that point, just disconnect, bro, because you can't win them battles. So, you just let that ride, man. Now, you do have to find a way to make amends for that tweet, because it, you said was selfish.