JRE MMA Show #175 with Shakur Stevenson

Joe sits down with Shakur Stevenson, a professional boxer, four-time world champion, and Olympic medalist. https://www.youtube.com/@ShakurStevensonTV https://www.boxrec.com/en/box-pro/790719 Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience.

• 0:05Speaker 01

  Training by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

• 0:12Joe Rogan?

  Well, anyway, thanks for coming down here, man. Appreciate it. And congratulations on that standout performance against Teofimo. Because that was a, that was a giant wake-up call for the entirety of boxing. The level that you're on was it so high that you could be in there with a world champion, a world champion, and make him look, a guy who beat, I mean, legit guys, including Lomachenko. That was a big victory for him. And you made him look like he had no business in there.

• 0:45Speaker 03

  Honestly, it's just hard work, dedication, and God-given ability. God-given ability.

• 0:54Joe Rogan?

  I think you have all that, plus intelligence, plus you started real young. And there's something about those dudes who start real young, you grow up with that. It's like in your central nervous system as you're a young child. I mean, would you start boxing at like five?

• 1:11Speaker 03

  I started boxing at five, but honestly, you could say the same for Teo too, because he kind of started at like seven. We both was kind of similar in like, experience, but I just felt like with me, the God-given ability of my instincts always kick in. Like, when we fought, I felt like my brain just knew how to win. Like, it just, everything was just like, my instincts kicked in and everything just took over. Like, I didn't even, it felt like an out-of-body experience.

• 1:45Joe Rogan?

  Well, you're a very tactical guy. Like, you know, there's a thing, one of the things I love about watching you fight is, I love watching a guy who sets traps and who avoids damage. And you are one of the absolute very best ever at setting traps and avoid damage. You take so few punches in your fights. There was that one fight where you decided, recent fight, where you decided to stand with that dude. Who was that?

• 2:10Speaker 03

  William Zapata.

• 2:11Joe Rogan?

  That's right. Zapata's a tough guy, man.

• 2:13Speaker 03

  He is.

• 2:14Joe Rogan?

  But you fought that in a different way. Did you do that on purpose?

• 2:17Speaker 03

  Uh, it was partly on purpose and partly to get his respect.

• 2:21Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 2:22Speaker 03

  Cause I really didn't have a choice but to get his respect because if I'd have tried to outbox him and move around the ring, I probably would have made the fight harder than it had to be. So I knew like, I gotta like, make him respect me early and that's what I kinda like, started the fight.

• 2:38Joe Rogan?

  Hot. Why would it make it harder than it had to be if you boxed him?

• 2:43Speaker 03

  Because sometimes when you like, a guy, like if you watch today's boxing, judges give the fight to mostly the guys that's coming forward. So, if I'd have went in there and bagging up and moving around the ring while he was more active, it probably would have looked as though he's winning the fight.

• 3:01Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 3:02Speaker 03

  So I had to make sure like, the judges know who's winning. So I kinda had to take some in order to give some in that fight.

• 3:10Joe Rogan?

  It was a very unusual fight for you. I, I saw an interview with you after that fight where you're like, I'm not fighting like that again. Fuck that.

• 3:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, cause I know like, I see like the modern day, like the, the old school boxers and like, the punishment that they taking and you'll see them today, they can't really talk as well as like, like the Andre Wars and the Floyd Mayweather who can talk good and

• 3:36Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 3:37Speaker 03

  still articulate things to their grand, to their grandchildren, to their children.

• 3:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:43Speaker 03

  For me personally, it's like, I wanna make sure that I'm able to really speak well to my kids and my grandkids and all of that. So, taking punishment ain't for me.

• 3:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I support that one hundred percent and I applaud fighters like you for setting an example for young fighters coming up. Like, defense and tactics and understanding the game is the most important thing. These guys that wanna put on an entertaining fight and just go in there and slug it out, like, man, you are giving up your brain for some people who don't give a fuck about you.

• 4:18Speaker 03

  About you, oh my god. That's the God's honest truth right there. I be seeing a lot of fighters nowadays where they stand there like punching bags and let people hit on them and you'll see them after the fight, they marked up and A few, in a few years, I don't think that they're gonna be able to speak as well as like somebody like me, so.

• 4:37Joe Rogan?

  No, there's a bunch of examples of that, obviously, we could all see it, but, you know, it's a complicated sport. And for people that don't understand the sport and don't appreciate the sport, they just see two dudes punching each other. But they don't see subtle movements and you were doing this like half out jab and then popping him with it. And you could tell he had no idea it was coming. It was so frustrating for Tiafimo. I was watching, I was like, I, there was a bunch of times where I was watching, I just was yelling out by myself in my house going, woo! That check right hook, ooh! It was so pretty, man. You, you hit him with some pretty shot, but it was, it was just, you were just tuning him up.

• 5:18Joe Rogan?

  It was, it was a beautiful performance, man, because it was everything that I love in boxing.

• 5:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:23Joe Rogan?

  Skill, movement, understanding, ring IQ, knowing what's happening and, and every time he would get fired up and try to take it to you. The most he could do is touch your body. It's all he was able to do.

• 5:36Speaker 03

  Uh, honestly, I, for me personally, I feel like I'm like the best fighter in boxing. And I don't like mean this in no disrespectful way, cause I got a lot of fighters in boxing that I still watch to this day that I like. And I'm like, okay, they, I'm still there. So I'm, Usik, I love Usik. I love Usik, I love Bava, I love them, um, Eastern European styles. But, um, for me, like, I just feel like I'm a fighter that could do it all. Like, I can do it all. Like, whatever needs to be done to get the job done, I can do that. So some nights you might see, I might outbox people. Then some might, some nights I might stand there

• 6:18Speaker 03

  beat a guy up and beat them at their own game. So, um, I think for me, I'm the most complete fighter in boxing.

• 6:24Joe Rogan?

  Well, that mindset is what you need, especially in a sport where you've dominated divisions.

• 6:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 6:30Joe Rogan?

  Right? So if you've dominated divisions and you're still looking to achieve a higher level, you can't just look at the guys that are your competitors.

• 6:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 6:37Joe Rogan?

  Because at 135, it was so hard for you to get fights.

• 6:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 6:41Joe Rogan?

  At 140 now, what are you gonna do? You just do that to Tiafimo?

• 6:45Speaker 03

  It scared a lot of people.

• 6:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah! Nobody wants to look stupid. I mean, Tiafimo's had some good fights in the past and he's lost in the past, but he's never looked out of place.

• 6:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 6:56Joe Rogan?

  And he looked out of place in that fight.

• 6:58Speaker 03

  It's crazy though, cuz when I seen him, when he fought in New York on the um Times Square card, I'm like, man, this dude is nice. Like, I'm sitting there, I'm like, whoa, like, I couldn't believe like how good he was. But it kinda like just made me get up, like, I'm like, okay, I wanna.

• 7:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 7:15Speaker 03

  I wanna see like what he can do with me.

• 7:17Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 7:18Speaker 03

  Cuz the way he made Arnold Barboza look in New York was like, he just made him look like he's not on his level.

• 7:24Joe Rogan?

  Well, he wasn't on his level, but then Tiafimo's not on your level. I mean, this is the beautiful thing about competitive sports, especially boxing. This one-on-one, which I think is the purest form of competition, boxing and MMA, is that you can show that as great as a fighter is, like, people could watch the Tiafimo fight and have no idea how good he is.

• 7:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, for sure.

• 7:43Joe Rogan?

  And I would say, go watch the Barboza fight, go watch the Lomachenko fight, go watch many of his fights. The guy was an excellent fighter.

• 7:50Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 7:50Joe Rogan?

  Still is an excellent fighter.

• 7:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 7:52Joe Rogan?

  But there are levels.

• 7:53Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 7:54Joe Rogan?

  And the mindset that you have, I am the best fighter in the world, period, is what allows you to beat guys like that, that and the hard work.

• 8:05Speaker 03

  For sure, um, like I said, I'm God-given and I work super hard and I think the biggest thing that I don't get credit for is my discipline. Like, I feel like I'm very disciplined when it comes down to making the sacrifices and making the life changes that I need to make in order to be a hundred percent on Fight Night, and I feel like a lot of people don't give me. I mean, they don't know.

• 8:31Joe Rogan?

  They don't know, that's all it is.

• 8:32Speaker 03

  You know, I be seeing like fans tweet and they be like, oh, get off Twitter or get off social media. But I'll be on social media like. Right after I just left the gym, I'm like, what's the problem? Like, I'm just talking my talk on social media right now. Like, let me live, like.

• 8:48Joe Rogan?

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• 9:31Joe Rogan?

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• 10:11Joe Rogan?

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• 11:18Speaker 03

  And not be locked in.

• 11:19Joe Rogan?

  And not be locked in. It's not possible, especially over 12 rounds. Because, I mean, you know better than anybody alive that the kind of discipline that it takes to be in the kind of condition that you have to be in to fight 12 hard rounds, they put on a virtuoso performance. It's like dun, dun, dun.

• 11:36Speaker 03

  It's crazy though, everybody like, like y'all love the performance because y'all got to see it that day. But like, for me, when I'm in the gym, it's still levels that I feel like I haven't got to show to the world. Like, I kind of only really shown like 70% of like what I really could do. And I feel like with that performance, it was just like, okay, this is, this is like an okay day in the gym. Like an okay day. It ain't like my best day in the gym. Like I have like days in the gym where I'm like, ooh.

• 12:13Speaker 03

  I don't know how I just did that, but I'm just like on point, so. It was a good day though.

• 12:18Joe Rogan?

  The thing is, you're getting better.

• 12:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, for sure.

• 12:20Joe Rogan?

  You know, that's the thing. It's like those days that you have in the gym and this performance, and the mindset that you have, like it's still only, not saying I did it all, not seeing, okay, virtuoso performance, still only 70% of what you're capable of. That's what takes a guy from being a very good fighter to being an all-time great.

• 12:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:40Joe Rogan?

  And it's a matter of maintaining that over years and years and years that is so difficult for people.

• 12:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:47Joe Rogan?

  And discipline is where that comes in.

• 12:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:49Joe Rogan?

  Enthusiasm and motivation is great in the beginning. A lot of people have enthusiasm and motivation in the beginning, but it's When you've been a champ for five years, six years, you know, the grind of it all, the twelve week training camp away from your family, people don't think about that.

• 13:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's why I'm kind of glad that I got the, all of the things that happened in my career, where I had a little trials and triplets happened early. So when I had my hand problem and I had like a fight where I didn't perform as well as I wanted to, it kind of got me prepared for like now. Now it's like, I'm a hundred percent on top of my game. Like you're not gonna be able to like, beat me without me being like fully prepared. Like you gonna have to be a bad dude to come in the ring and beat me like, cause I, I just don't see it happening with none of these guys.

• 13:45Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's like how far you've gone, right? Like you started off at five and been intensely focused for all these years. How old are you now? Twenty?

• 13:53Speaker 03

  Twenty-eight.

• 13:54Joe Rogan?

  Twenty-eight, which is prime.

• 13:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 13:57Joe Rogan?

  That's it, like twenty-eight to like thirty-four is the best year. But then again, you look at Terrence. I mean, he's at an age where a lot of people say it's over and he put on the performance of his career against Canelo.

• 14:11Speaker 03

  I don't know how he do it. He's like a different human being, like.

• 14:16Joe Rogan?

  He's so smart.

• 14:17Speaker 03

  If I'm honest, he is like the reason, I'm not gonna say he the reason why I am who I am today, but he brought my game from like where it was at to like a very high level and he don't even realize like, he done it. Like me just being in the gym, able to watch him and pick up on like the little things that he doing, his bad days, his good days, his, I'm seeing everything and like when he come out there on fight night, how prepared and how ready, how confident, like honestly. That dude kinda, he put me into a whole different world to now to where I'm like, oh, I can,

• 14:57Speaker 03

  I could beat anybody. I get in there with Terrence Crawford and if I could spar with him, I can, how you gonna hurt me? How you gonna, how? How you gonna beat me like? I'm in the ring with the best fighter in the world, like.

• 15:10Joe Rogan?

  One of the best of all time. Yeah, one of the best of all, and one of the most versatile of all time.

• 15:16Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 15:16Joe Rogan?

  Because that's a guy who switches up, left, right.

• 15:19Speaker 03

  There's nothing he can't do in a boxing ring.

• 15:21Joe Rogan?

  Nothing. Nothing he can't do. And the way he sets people up, we were talking during the podcast I did with him. He did this one sneaky thing where he was throwing a straight left and then Canelo would go to counter and he, would hook it right off of the punch, like on the extension, Canelo would lean back to counter, bop! And catch him on the chin, you could see it, it's like, oh my god, that's pretty.

• 15:44Speaker 03

  I've never seen him throw that punch until Canelo though, that's the crazy part.

• 15:49Joe Rogan?

  Being in the gym with another guy who's an all-time great, pound-for-pound best, that is so valuable. And so many guys don't like that because they don't wanna be the second best. Or they don't wanna be in there with someone who's as good as them. You know what I mean? Like, iron sharpens iron.

• 16:10Speaker 03

  For sure.

• 16:10Joe Rogan?

  And for you to be a young guy who have a guy's, Terrence is what, 10 years older than you?

• 16:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 16:15Joe Rogan?

  Have a guy who's further down the path and be able to see him and absorb all that, that's better than any coach in the world.

• 16:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, but it's been going on for years, like, it ain't like just a new thing. People don't understand, like, when I was 19 years old, I was around Terrence. I was at his house, playing him in 2K. We'd go to the gym, argue, like, he really one of the most competitive persons I ever met in my entire life, but.

• 16:45Joe Rogan?

  You have to be.

• 16:46Speaker 03

  I just never, like, for me, I just know for a fact, my game has up because of that dude.

• 16:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it has to. It ha- it's also, you're seeing this level that is so high in boxing. Like, you can compare it, you could go back and look at Sugar Ray Leonard, you can look at Purnell Whitaker, you look at all these guys, and you can compare Terrence to the people that the pundits sit down and say, all-time greats. Terrence is unquestionably an all-time great.

• 17:15Speaker 03

  He might even be better than them.

• 17:16Joe Rogan?

  He might be.

• 17:17Speaker 03

  With all due respect to the legends.

• 17:19Joe Rogan?

  I agree with you.

• 17:20Speaker 03

  He is that good.

• 17:21Joe Rogan?

  He's that good. I feel like there's a thing that was happening before the Canelo fight, where a lot of people were sort of dismissing his previous opponents, and saying he never beat anybody, and Canelo's another level. I know a lot of people bet a lot of money on Canelo. I was like, that's not a good bet.

• 17:39Speaker 03

  Man, it seemed like that's the thing in boxing to where it's like, if they don't know the opponents, if you're not fighting somebody that's like a bigger name,

• 17:48Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 17:49Speaker 03

  they makes it seem like the opponent is not good. And that's like, not true. Cause at the end of the day, it's low-level opponents that don't get the type of shine that the high-level opponents get, but they will beat the high-level opponent. And are they really high-level opponents at this point? Like, I don't know.

• 18:10Joe Rogan?

  Well, there's hot, there's high level, and then there's the elite of the elite, right?

• 18:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, for sure.

• 18:16Joe Rogan?

  There's always that. There's like, some guys that if they're in, like, I always said that about Roy Jones during his prime. Like, everybody said, Roy Jones didn't fight anybody. Not true. Roy Jones just made everybody look like they weren't anybody.

• 18:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, for sure.

• 18:30Joe Rogan?

  Cause he was that, he was so elite.

• 18:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:33Joe Rogan?

  And that's kind of the problem that Terrence was facing up until the Canelo fight. Because when a guy goes up two weight classes, all the way up to sixty-eight. Right, I mean, starts his career at thirty-five.

• 18:46Speaker 03

  He's crazy.

• 18:46Joe Rogan?

  Last fight, he fights at sixty-eight, and then puts on a virtuoso performance. Virtual shutout. Maybe Canelo won one round.

• 18:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:55Joe Rogan?

  You know, I mean, then everybody has to shut the fuck up.

• 18:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, he shut everybody up because you had to see, like, he used to say that he wouldn't fight Canelo. Like, he used to be like, oh, Canelo's too big, I wouldn't fight him. Then like it's like out of nowhere he had a change in mind and like he just went and attacked the situation and it was a bad situation to be here like you're gonna go fight somebody two weight classes higher punch hard bigger than you you're gonna go do that so um for me he just dude is amazing.

• 19:26Joe Rogan?

  He's amazing and another amazing example for young fighters you know incredibly disciplined never out of shape and has all his faculties doesn't do anything all his faculties intact and he's leaving the game with a hundred percent no undefeated record no questions asked fought everybody there's no one lining up to fight him right now he's older and he's he did it all and he came out unscathed bye bye.

• 19:56Speaker 03

  That's my biggest goal.

• 19:58Joe Rogan?

  It's a perfect goal.

• 19:59Speaker 03

  My biggest goal is to leave boxing and when I leave boxing

• 20:04Speaker 03

  be good enough well not good enough great enough financially to where I don't ever have to get back in the boxing ring like I don't wanna be one of them fighters that's like need boxing like I hate that like that's my biggest pet peeve like as long as I'm having fun with boxing I wanna be doing it but once it's not fun no more I don't wanna have to like oh we got this twenty million dollar payday I need it and I don't wanna feel that way so.

• 20:33Joe Rogan?

  Like Floyd like the situation that Floyd's in right now this is crazy I was having a conversation with a friend of mine right now and he's like why is Floyd fighting again I go cuz he needs money he was like what how Floyd made more money than anybody ever it's like yeah but he spent more money than everybody ever.

• 20:51Speaker 03

  Yeah I try to stay out of that cuz I don't know like the real situation with Floyd cuz I'm not really in tune on it but um I only think with Floyd that's kinda weird to me is like he loved boxing so much like you gotta actually be around him like he wanna be in the gym he wanna like so it'd be hard for me to just believe like okay he's just dead broke like I don't know it's hard to believe that.

• 21:18Joe Rogan?

  Well if he's not dead broke. He's definitely got issues.

• 21:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:24Joe Rogan?

  Right, so he's got a bunch of lawsuits where he owes money. You know, Logan Paul says he owes him money, he owes money for some other things. I don't know. I'm with you, I don't know. But it's also, it's like, I like a guy like Andre Ward. I like a guy who goes out on top and, you know, they offered Andre a ton of money to come back and fight Canelo after Canelo beat Kovalev.

• 21:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:44Joe Rogan?

  And he was like, you know what, I think I served boxing better as a commentator and a spokesperson for the sport. I made plenty of money, I'm undefeated. Two division world champion, Olympic gold medalist, bye bye. That's it. All faculties intact, no worries about his brain health and everything like that. That's the way to go out.

• 22:02Speaker 03

  Andre Ward is another dude who, uh, helped my career.

• 22:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah?

• 22:06Speaker 03

  He helped my career a lot too. He, um. If I had to, if I need, if I need something, right, let's say I need something then. I need to figure out how to do it or what to do in a situation with weight or whatever it is when it come to boxing. If I'm calling Andre Ward, he gonna give you the best explanation. Like out of all the guys, like he explains things from detail like. He gonna detail in and make me really understand what I gotta do like, um, Andre Ward is somebody who. I looked up to since a kid, so he another guy. I just wasn't around him enough in the gym as I was around Bud. But like, Andre Ward was my favorite fighter as an amateur, like.

• 22:50Joe Rogan?

  Oh, really?

• 22:51Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 22:51Joe Rogan?

  Well, most people don't know that Andre Ward fought most of his career with one arm.

• 22:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:56Joe Rogan?

  Which is crazy. Which is crazy.

• 22:58Speaker 03

  That one arm is his best arm. He's left-handed for real, for real, so.

• 23:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but it's still crazy.

• 23:04Speaker 03

  It is.

• 23:05Joe Rogan?

  It's still crazy. Think about all the guys he beat and he beat them with a left hand.

• 23:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:09Joe Rogan?

  And then finally got shoulder surgery and then had a right hand. It's still, still kinda fucked up. It's not a hundred percent.

• 23:16Speaker 03

  You know the misconception about his career? I feel like when he beat Kovalev, people don't realize how good Kovalev was.

• 23:26Joe Rogan?

  Oh, he was good in the day.

• 23:27Speaker 03

  Like, he was insanely like.

• 23:30Joe Rogan?

  Fucking dangerous.

• 23:30Speaker 03

  Power, boxing, length. He had everything, a great jab, a great right hand.

• 23:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 23:37Speaker 03

  And for Andre Ward to go beat that dude, that put the stamp on like, his career.

• 23:42Joe Rogan?

  And got dropped.

• 23:44Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 23:44Joe Rogan?

  Got dropped and hurt, and recovered and still won.

• 23:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:47Joe Rogan?

  I mean, that was big. Yeah, Kovalev, people see Kovalev when he lost to Canelo, he was already kinda washed.

• 23:53Speaker 03

  He was done.

• 23:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he was already washed. He'd been drinking a lot.

• 23:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:57Joe Rogan?

  There was a lot of, you know, a lot of these fighters, they get to, like we're saying, it's sustaining that will, that drive, that discipline, that focus. It's hard to do.

• 24:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:06Joe Rogan?

  But if you go back when he had it, man, when he was in his prime and he was a world champion, he was fucking everybody up, man.

• 24:13Speaker 03

  He was a killer.

• 24:13Joe Rogan?

  And he was scary.

• 24:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, he was a killer.

• 24:16Joe Rogan?

  Scary right hand, oof.

• 24:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:18Joe Rogan?

  It was a piston.

• 24:19Speaker 03

  I'll go back and watch him too, he another guy that I'll go back and watch. Cause I like the way he keep his distance, he keep his distance really good. He got that Eastern European, like them guys are really good boxers. Like when I watched them, I'm like, okay, like, I love watching Bovall.

• 24:32Joe Rogan?

  Bovall's amazing.

• 24:33Speaker 03

  I love it.

• 24:34Joe Rogan?

  He's got such an amazing style. I mean, him, Usyk, Lomachenko's kind of a, that's a fight I really wish would have happened between you and him, man. Was there ever talk about that?

• 24:47Speaker 03

  I messed myself up. I kinda did this to myself, so I understand, um, why a lot of fighters wouldn't fight me. A lot of fighters wouldn't fight me because I sparred them.

• 24:58Joe Rogan?

  Uh.

• 25:00Speaker 03

  I messed myself up, like I, when I was trying to spar him at that time, I never thought it would be a day of me and him fighting, like I didn't think that far down the line. I really was just thinking he was the best fighter in boxing, number one pound for pound. I wanna be able to go get in the ring with him and see what like,

• 25:18Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 25:18Speaker 03

  how I can do, like they told me they wasn't even gonna pay me for the spar and I'm like, okay, I'm cool, I don't wanna get paid. I, I'm just here to get in the ring with Lomachenko. But, um, years later, yeah, the fight.

• 25:31Joe Rogan?

  How'd that go?

• 25:33Speaker 03

  How the spar went? I think, um, see, I don't, I don't diss nobody in sparring, so I can't say that.

• 25:40Joe Rogan?

  We don't have to diss him.

• 25:41Speaker 03

  I, I'll keep it real with the spar.

• 25:43Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 25:43Speaker 03

  I felt like I was outboxing him, but I also knew.

• 25:50Speaker 03

  The level he was on was like his conditioning. And that's when I, it made me like, okay, I gotta be in like, tip top conditioning, cuz the first day we sparred, we did six rounds. I feel like it was like, okay, I can outbox him. The next time we sparred, he made me do twelve straight.

• 26:07Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 26:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, so he made me do twelve straight. For the first eight, I'm good, like, I'm, I'm good for eight. But like the last four rounds, I wanna say, he started like picking up the pace and he ain't get off on me, but he got the better of the, um, last four rounds.

• 26:26Joe Rogan?

  And you feel like it was because of fatigue a little bit?

• 26:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was for sure because of fatigue, but it wasn't like the skills, like, skillfully, I felt like I was the better fighter, like, I felt like my range and my distance and my speed was kinda better than his. But like, from a standpoint of being in shape and throwing more punches, I felt like he was kinda, but he was getting ready for his fight, I was getting ready for my fight too, so.

• 26:52Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's a very valuable learning experience, right?

• 26:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:55Joe Rogan?

  You mean, uh, better to learn it then than to learn it in a fight?

• 26:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, but for real, for real, it messed me up. Because now it's like, if I'm Lomachenko and I know he was what, a hundred and twenty-six pounds at the time, he was a kid. Now I see him all grown up, he bigger, stronger. And I seen what he was doing as a kid, I probably be like, why would I test the water with him, like, I, I wouldn't really wanna see that guy. That's not the guy I would wanna see, so.

• 27:27Joe Rogan?

  That's funny. Um, so you think that those sparring matches were the reason why you never got a fight with him?

• 27:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, for sure. I was surprised T O, uh, fought me, honestly. I was very surprised.

• 27:40Joe Rogan?

  Did you spar him as well?

• 27:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 27:42Speaker 03

  But when we sparred, we only did three rounds, but he made it seem like he kinda got off on me, but honestly, I felt like I was the better fighter.

• 27:53Joe Rogan?

  Well, T O's a very headstrong guy.

• 27:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:55Joe Rogan?

  He's very, very tough, very confident guy. I mean, look, when he beat Lomachenko, that was a standout performance. He had that piston jab, man.

• 28:03Speaker 03

  Ooh, he was sharp.

• 28:04Joe Rogan?

  Woo, he was sharp in that fight.

• 28:05Speaker 03

  I watched that fight a thousand times before my fight.

• 28:07Joe Rogan?

  Well, I just think he knew that Lomachenko was a ghost, he was so hard to hit, and just he came out explosive.

• 28:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, I just think, uh, Lomachenko had a speed to like.

• 28:19Speaker 03

  Get his respect.

• 28:21Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 28:21Speaker 03

  Like, I feel like Teo was kinda faster and he knew, like, from a speed standpoint, he was gonna use it to his advantage.

• 28:28Joe Rogan?

  Also, Teo was a lot bigger.

• 28:29Speaker 03

  Yup.

• 28:30Joe Rogan?

  And he was dangerous. Like, he was throwing danger with every punch. Even that jab had danger behind it.

• 28:35Speaker 03

  It was crazy. I felt like he was strong when I was fighting him.

• 28:38Joe Rogan?

  Oh, he's strong as fuck, man.

• 28:40Speaker 03

  Everybody think that he wasn't, but I'm like, man, I ain't gonna lie. It was some shots, like, I would catch on the glove and I'd be like, I don't know what you, what you doing in your training, bro, but, don't come to solid.

• 28:52Joe Rogan?

  Well, look at the size of that motherfucker. I mean, he's jacked. He looks great.

• 28:56Speaker 03

  He's ripped, he's ripped.

• 28:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he's just, but, you know, he's not done. And a fight like that with you is a wake-up call for a guy like him, too. It's like, man, I gotta tighten some shit up.

• 29:07Speaker 03

  It's fifty-fifty, though. It's fifty-fifty, 'cause sometimes they can play with your mental.

• 29:10Joe Rogan?

  Mmm.

• 29:11Speaker 03

  So, some, some guys don't be the same after getting embarrassed in front of the world like that, like.

• 29:16Joe Rogan?

  Well, he's come back before, like the Kambosis fight.

• 29:18Speaker 03

  Yup.

• 29:19Joe Rogan?

  Kambosis dropped him early, and that was a, that was a crazy upset.

• 29:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, but it was different. 'Cause in this instance, he got really embarrassed. With Kambosis, it was like, it was a fifty-fifty. He felt like he won the fight. He left feeling that way.

• 29:35Joe Rogan?

  But getting dropped by Kambosis, nobody saw that coming.

• 29:37Speaker 03

  Nah, I didn't see that coming neither. I ain't gonna lie, for sure.

• 29:40Joe Rogan?

  I think it was like second round, too, right?

• 29:42Speaker 03

  It was the first round, but Teo was fighting dumb. I never seen Teo even fight like that either. He went in there, like, just trying to knock him out from the first round.

• 29:50Joe Rogan?

  I think after the Lomachenko fight, he felt like, this dude is not on my level. I'm the best fighter in the world. You know? That can fuck with your head, too. Overconfidence can fuck with your head.

• 29:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, I be trying to, like, with, I be trying to, like, stay away from that, like, 'cause I'm very, like, confident in myself, so I be scared of being too confident, so I be trying to, like... Make guys bigger in my brain like, oh, this guy is, he's the truth, so.

• 30:18Joe Rogan?

  That's smart.

• 30:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, I got to, like, I, I don't have no choice, cuz I'm very confident.

• 30:22Joe Rogan?

  We've all seen fighters that go in unprepared and think that a fighter's not on their level, and then that guy puts a.

• 30:28Speaker 03

  Knock him out.

• 30:28Joe Rogan?

  Buster Douglas and Mike Tyson, perfect example. Forty-two to one underdog, and it was a perfect storm because Buster's mama just died. And Buster was always one of those guys that was known to be super talented in the gym. Super talented, but not dedicated, just not driven, just didn't, didn't make the most of his talent. But for that one fight, he was like, I'm fighting Mike Tyson, I'm not scared of him, my mom is dead, I'm, I'm putting in the fucking work. And he came out throwing that jab with the hook off the jab, pop, whap, pop, whap. And it was a totally different Buster Douglas, like, the best Buster Douglas we've ever seen, ever.

• 31:09Joe Rogan?

  That final combination when he knocked Mike Tyson out, dude, I didn't even watch that fight live. A friend of mine told me about it, and I was like, are you fucking serious? He told me at the gas station, he's like, Buster Douglas knocked out Mike Tyson, I was like, what the fuck are you talking about? And then I went home and watched it, and even while I knew that Buster Douglas had won, I expected Mike Tyson to get up and kill him. I was like, I can't believe this is happening.

• 31:35Speaker 03

  For sure.

• 31:36Joe Rogan?

  That's how much of an upset that was.

• 31:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, that was definitely one of the biggest upset, I think, um. I, I don't know, cuz I wasn't during that time, but from what I seen, it just looked like Mike didn't expect him to be that good, like, it was a shocker.

• 31:51Joe Rogan?

  I think it was a shocker for everybody. Well, that's.

• 31:55Speaker 03

  But that's boxing, that's what can happen in this world, I done seen that happen plenty of times, and, um. Honestly, it be some guys that I see in a gym that I'm like, bro, if you do that stuff on Fight Night, bro, you'll probably be champion of the world. I guess a lot of gym fighters who really got talent, but.

• 32:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 32:15Speaker 03

  When the bright lights come on, a lot of fighters be kinda different.

• 32:19Joe Rogan?

  And what do you think that is?

• 32:21Speaker 03

  I think it's pressure, I think it's nerves, I think it's like, it's a lot, it's a lot. Cuz I know I felt it, like, I felt it for my fight with, um, T.O., I felt pressure, I felt all of that kinda stuff, but.

• 32:35Speaker 03

  I'm too tough, like I know my mental ain't going. It's me or that person at the end of the day. My life or your life and I'm gonna choose my life when it come down to it, so. I was good, but I know there's a lot of fighters. That I see in the gym and I'm like, man, I don't understand how you don't perform like this on. Under the lights.

• 32:55Joe Rogan?

  There's always guys like that. There's always guys that are potential world champions in the gym and you know, some people bank on them and some. You know, you go, this guy just needs a mental coach, needs something to get him over that hump, but it it's always interesting to me. Cause what is the difference between a guy who could just walk out there on fight day day? And perform at one hundred percent of his ability versus a guy who gets dwarfed by the moment. The moment comes, the big pressure, yeah.

• 33:24Speaker 03

  It's all mental, it's all in your head.

• 33:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 33:27Speaker 03

  What you thinking and what you believing and the things that's going on in your brain is what's gonna come out like. I'm already telling myself, like I said, I tell myself it's either me. Or whom? So. My life or your life and. One of us gotta go.

• 33:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 33:45Speaker 03

  One of us gotta go.

• 33:47Joe Rogan?

  But what do you think is going on in the, I mean, everybody experiences pressure, everybody experiences nerves. But what is it about fighters that are so talented that let that overcome them versus fighters? Oftentimes they're maybe not even as talented, but they rise to the occasion when those lights are on. When those lights are on, there are fighters that fight better, like sometimes they look shit in the gym. And then when those bright lights are on.

• 34:12Speaker 03

  Moments like that. I done had moments where I'm like, man, I I felt bad in the gym, I don't know what. I had this camp, this was a horrible camp and then fight night coming, I'm like, on point.

• 34:24Joe Rogan?

  Well, you know, that's what they said about Ali when he fought George Foreman.

• 34:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:27Joe Rogan?

  They said he looked terrible in the gym and everybody was nervous about him, but.

• 34:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:30Joe Rogan?

  He had a strategy.

• 34:32Speaker 03

  I think with like some fighters is fear. Like I think it's fear of like losing or fear of the negative happening and. I think with some fighters, they allow fear to control them.

• 34:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 34:43Speaker 03

  As in some other fighters who. If I get fearful, I'm going to attack my fears. Like, I'm not scared to even go and, and, and give it a try. Whatever happened is going to happen at the end of the day. It's all written already, so.

• 34:57Joe Rogan?

  Is this something that you built up over time? Or is it something someone imparted on you when you were young and you embraced it? Like, how did you learn to have that champion mindset?

• 35:08Speaker 03

  I think it's wild to say, but I think it's really my little brothers and my little sisters, but really my little brothers. I used to go to amateur tournaments and if I lose and I gotta come home to my little brothers, oh, they on me. They on me. And it's like, you gotta come home and they, they remember the name of the opponent that beat you and they will throw it in your face. Oh, don't make me go get Joseph Adorno. That's a, that's a real guy that beat me back in the day. Shout out to Joseph Adorno. But, um, I used to have to hear that in the house. And now I still be with them, so it's like, I know I gotta go home to my little brothers

• 35:51Speaker 03

  and see them after these fights. And I, I had that in the back of my head. I'm not, I'm not coming home to them.

• 35:59Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 36:00Speaker 03

  Without the win, like, I, they gotta know, like.

• 36:03Joe Rogan?

  Did you tell your little brothers that they do that for you?

• 36:05Speaker 03

  Nah, they, I, I don't even think I ever said it to them. It just was so natural, cause I used to always get in fights with them and they used to always bring up an opponent that beat me and I'm like, now they, now if I beat everybody, they can't say it no more.

• 36:18Joe Rogan?

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• 38:10Joe Rogan?

  Well, because different fighters develop, you know, different ways of rising to the occasion, different ways of maintaining a championship's mindset. And some of them, they learn it from their coach, you know, Customato famously trained Tyson and even hypnotized him and told him that you don't exist, only the task exists. And he had Mike Tyson just like a fucking machine when he would get into that ring.

• 38:34Speaker 03

  I think, shout out to my grandfather too, because my grandfather is my coach. And like his energy during Fight Week, like it, they don't even realize like, it wasn't even just the coaching that he was doing. It's like the energy that he kind of gave off to me, it reminded me of me when like I was a kid and me and him would go to amateur tournaments and like, he just so like amped up and like ready and like, it kind of brought on to me and it kind of got me like amped up as him. Like, okay, I gotta, I gotta, I gotta stand on business for my grandfather. I got to, I don't got no choice.

• 39:13Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 39:14Speaker 03

  But he's, he's definitely a great coach.

• 39:16Joe Rogan?

  So family's a big thing for you?

• 39:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, family is everything for me. Like, I enjoy spending time with my family. Like, I'm not like a lot of these boxers, like with all due respect to them. They like the fame, the...

• 39:32Speaker 03

  All that kinda stuff, the cars, the, I'm more so like, I get a big check, I wanna go on vacay with my family, or go chill with my family, and I don't like doing stuff, like, I enjoy spending time with my daughter.

• 39:47Joe Rogan?

  That's great.

• 39:48Speaker 03

  Like, I'm different, I'm not like them guys, like.

• 39:50Joe Rogan?

  That's so smart, it's so smart, because all that other shit just drains your bank account, distracts you from your goals, gets in the way of things.

• 40:01Speaker 03

  It's like, when I was a kid, I used to want the fame, I used to be like, oh, I wanna be famous, I wanna

• 40:07Joe Rogan?

  Of course.

• 40:08Speaker 03

  Everybody to know me, but, it's like, once you get it, it's like, ah, I don't like this.

• 40:16Speaker 03

  I don't like this, like, you go places, people pulling their phones out, and like,

• 40:20Joe Rogan?

  It's weird, right?

• 40:20Speaker 03

  They're trying to record you, like, bro, why you, I'm just a regular person, like, that's how I feel, like, Everybody bleeds, we all the same, we all human.

• 40:29Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 40:30Speaker 03

  So I kinda move with that kinda thought process, and I feel like, a lot of people don't move with that, like, especially people in my position.

• 40:38Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm, yeah, you can get inflated, your, your head can get screwy, it's like, you gotta balance two things at the same time. One, you are the elite of the elite, you are a world champion, and one of the pound-for-pound best to ever do it, and then on top of that, you're just a human being.

• 40:53Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 40:54Joe Rogan?

  And we're all just human beings, but, what we like, what people love about watching championship caliber fighters and championship performances in, in any sport, is watching just a regular human do something extraordinary.

• 41:08Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 41:09Joe Rogan?

  And that gives us inspiration, like, when I watch a great fight, I feel better for the rest of the day.

• 41:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:14Joe Rogan?

  Like, when I go to bed, I feel great.

• 41:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, for sure.

• 41:16Joe Rogan?

  Like, I watched that fight, I went to bed, I was like, woo, I felt great, I text Josh right after, right, right after it was, like, right after it was happening, and, uh, that's how we got in touch.

• 41:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, Josh.

• 41:26Joe Rogan?

  Josh Dubin, shout out to Josh.

• 41:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, shout out to Josh, Josh, that's my guy, that's my family right there.

• 41:30Joe Rogan?

  I'm like, dude, that was extraordinary, and then, next thing you know, we're on the phone.

• 41:36Speaker 03

  Definitely was a great, um, great night, great night of boxing. I enjoyed it. Um, I'm just glad to be here. Like, oh, glory to God. I'm glad to be here.

• 41:47Speaker 03

  I've been here. I got been here. I've been telling people like, I'm the best. I'm better than these guys.

• 41:52Joe Rogan?

  You have, but you needed that breakout.

• 41:54Speaker 03

  You right.

• 41:54Joe Rogan?

  You needed that breakout performance. And the problem is, everybody knew you were so good. It was hard to get someone to sign up for that breakout performance. Because for a breakout performance, you need another dude who's had breakout performances that everybody respects and knows. Like Tia Fimo.

• 42:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's why, that was, that was my main reason in fighting. I'm telling you, I watched him in Times Square. I looked, I said, we fighting him. We fighting him. I wanna fight him. Um, he, he looked really good. He looked really good.

• 42:21Joe Rogan?

  That Times Square card was weird.

• 42:23Speaker 03

  He was the best fighter on the card.

• 42:25Joe Rogan?

  A hundred percent.

• 42:26Speaker 03

  No question.

• 42:26Joe Rogan?

  It looked like everybody was playing it safe on that card.

• 42:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, it did. It did.

• 42:31Joe Rogan?

  Like Devin Haney, the Devin Haney fight was odd.

• 42:34Speaker 03

  I learned, what I learned from that card, I felt like, I felt like them fighters didn't have enough adrenaline pumping. Like, I feel like Ryan, I know when he got in the ring, his adrenaline couldn't been like, too high because it was like sparring, like, it was like, not a lot of people there. It wasn't like that much pressure. You could hear everything somebody is saying. I know Ryan heard me all night. Like, he had to hear me. I was cheering him on, like, telling him, like, man, throw the hook, throw the hook, throw the hook, but...

• 43:04Joe Rogan?

  That was when he fought Rowley, right?

• 43:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that was a wake up call too. Like, that was another fight where people did not expect Rowley to beat Ryan.

• 43:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'd be throwing off. I, I didn't expect it either. That was one, one of the fights where I kinda like, vouch for Ryan. I'm like, man, he got skills. He's a skillful fighter. Then he got in there, I don't know what he was doing. Like, I didn't understand what was happening.

• 43:28Joe Rogan?

  You know, it's one of them things where he has the fight with Devin, he beats Devin, gets popped, you know, for whatever he was on, Ostarine. And then there's like, he's got a long time off. There's a lot of people mad at him. There's a lot of people, you know, which is such an unfortunate thing if you think about his performance against Devin, because that was incredible.

• 43:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, but the problem is... He got caught.

• 43:57Joe Rogan?

  He got caught, yeah.

• 43:59Speaker 03

  So like, I don't know, like for me personally, if you got caught is like, I can't really, me, I can't give you the credit for that.

• 44:07Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 44:08Speaker 03

  I don't, I don't give him credit for that day, that night with Devin.

• 44:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but steroids don't help you land punches.

• 44:15Speaker 03

  I get you.

• 44:16Joe Rogan?

  They help you recover in training, they help you train a little harder, they might give you a little bit more power, but that left hook was on point.

• 44:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, but that little bit of more power probably wasn't enough to hurt Devin, because if you really watched the fight and paid attention to the fight, and people not, might not agree with me on this, but I feel like Devin was winning the moments that was quiet. Like when people's not really, ah, Devin is winning most of the like boxing match other, but the moments where Ryan was so loud and like everybody got to see him get hurt and knocked down to where like, I just feel like Devin, if he didn't get dropped by them punches, he could have won that fight.

• 45:01Joe Rogan?

  But he did get dropped, that's the problem, and also I think.

• 45:04Speaker 03

  What if the Ostering was helping his power?

• 45:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I mean, what was his last fight against, Delgado? Who was his, his last opponent?

• 45:13Speaker 03

  Who?

• 45:14Joe Rogan?

  Uh, Ryan. Who's the guy he just beat?

• 45:15Speaker 03

  Mario Barrios.

• 45:16Joe Rogan?

  Barrios, that's right.

• 45:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, Barrios.

• 45:18Joe Rogan?

  Barrios is a guy that was like tailor-made for a guy like Ryan, like he's a tough dude, he's very durable, takes a good shot, but he's not that fast.

• 45:30Speaker 03

  He's not, yeah.

• 45:31Joe Rogan?

  And Ryan was super fast in that fight.

• 45:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, Ryan looked good.

• 45:35Joe Rogan?

  He looked real good.

• 45:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, he looked good, he looked good.

• 45:37Joe Rogan?

  Real good in that fight.

• 45:38Speaker 03

  And it wasn't just like, because people think when I'm like, when I'm saying like, oh, well, you don't know whether he's cheating or not. I'm not saying that in the aspect of his boxing skills, like he clearly got boxing skills like. You can clearly see Ryan know how to move his feet, you know how to keep his distance, use his long length. Um, he could clearly box, I I've been saying this for years, so.

• 46:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he boxes very well, and also he showed that he has a right hand, too.

• 46:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, that was surprising.

• 46:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 46:09Speaker 03

  And he used it like the whole night, like he just kept throwing it, so that was very surprising.

• 46:14Joe Rogan?

  But I mean, of course, if you wanna be a complete fighter, he had to develop a right hand. And start using it more because that left hook is just world-class.

• 46:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, and he was not only like throwing it straight, he was throwing it around the guard.

• 46:26Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 46:26Speaker 03

  That was kinda like, yeah, it was nice.

• 46:28Joe Rogan?

  That was a beautiful performance for him. Has there been any talk about you two matching up?

• 46:32Speaker 03

  Uh, yeah, it has, but um, like I said, everything gotta make sense, like people don't understand that.

• 46:39Speaker 03

  I walk around in my forties, so if I'm walking around in my forties. I don't think like, me going to one forty-seven, like when I fight at one forty-seven. I think that would be my last weight class, like in my career, like I don't see myself going past one forty-seven ever. But I'm twenty-eight right now, I got a long way to go, so um, I don't plan on moving to forty-seven no time soon, so. If the fight happens at whatever weight class that I say, then I'm cool with it.

• 47:11Joe Rogan?

  Can he make forty again?

• 47:12Speaker 03

  He said he could, he the one who came out and said like, let's fight at one forty. He said that, so if he said that is like, okay, you could make the the weight, then let's do it.

• 47:22Joe Rogan?

  What weight was the Gervonta fight, was that one forty?

• 47:24Speaker 03

  That fight was at one thirty-six.

• 47:26Joe Rogan?

  That's right, and then he gave him a re- rehydration clause, too.

• 47:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, ten pounds, yep.

• 47:30Joe Rogan?

  Very smart. Very smart, very smart, right?

• 47:35Speaker 03

  I mean, yeah, it was, it was in that situation, but um.

• 47:41Speaker 03

  I mean, I just feel like with the rehydration clause at that time, when you're already bringing somebody down to like a weight class that they haven't fought in years, it's like you could have not put the rehydration clause, like it wasn't necessary at that point in time.

• 47:57Joe Rogan?

  I think it was necessary. I think it helped a lot.

• 47:59Speaker 03

  It did.

• 48:00Joe Rogan?

  It helped a lot. If you, if you can only rehydrate 10 pounds and you know he's way bigger than that, Ryan's a big guy.

• 48:06Speaker 03

  He looked weak on Fight Night, like he looked extremely weak.

• 48:09Joe Rogan?

  But I guess those dollars, that paycheck was just too tempting.

• 48:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, I never understood that move. I never understood it. Cause if I'm Ryan Garcia and I got a big name in the sport and all of that kinda stuff, why would I accept everything into somebody else's favor?

• 48:26Joe Rogan?

  I think because that's the only way he could get the fight, you know?

• 48:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, well.

• 48:32Joe Rogan?

  Well, this is the same thing when Canelo fought Floyd, right? Floyd made him go down to 152, remember?

• 48:37Speaker 03

  But it wasn't no rehydration clause.

• 48:39Joe Rogan?

  Um, was it?

• 48:41Speaker 03

  Nope, it wasn't.

• 48:42Joe Rogan?

  Even if there's not.

• 48:43Speaker 03

  Floyd ain't never, uh, rehydration clause, nobody, I don't think.

• 48:46Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's good. But if you make a guy get down to 152, even if you give him a rehydration clause, like that's gonna drain something out of your tank.

• 48:53Speaker 03

  But is it right? Cause my question is, wasn't they fighting at 154? Wasn't Canelo fighting at 154?

• 49:00Joe Rogan?

  Normally, yeah.

• 49:01Speaker 03

  So he only came down two pounds?

• 49:03Joe Rogan?

  But you know that last, you're not a big weight cutter, but if you were, that last two pounds is death.

• 49:09Speaker 03

  Oh, for sure.

• 49:09Joe Rogan?

  When you're already drained out, cause he was a big guy for 154, and to drain out and get all the way down to 152, that had to be hard. He didn't look the same on Fight Day.

• 49:20Speaker 03

  You didn't think so?

• 49:21Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think Floyd was just a virtuoso that night. I mean Floyd, Floyd looked so good that night.

• 49:27Speaker 03

  That night, I don't think if he was 154, 160, I don't think he was beating Floyd.

• 49:33Joe Rogan?

  I think you're probably right, but I also think Floyd was smart to get him to down to 152.

• 49:38Speaker 03

  For sure, the business.

• 49:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's like every angle you can get, every advantage you can get is a good one. I do agree with you about the rehydration clause, like get outta here with that.

• 49:48Speaker 03

  But we gotta understand too, right? Cause I get.

• 49:53Speaker 03

  Floyd in that instincts. If a guy is gonna blow up to, let's say what. Let's we we we'll just do me and Ryan Garcia for example.

• 50:02Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 50:03Speaker 03

  I'mma blow up like one forty eight. He's gonna blow up one sixty eight to one seventy. Now it's like you in a ring with somebody that is like twenty pounds bigger than you. And Floyd still allowed Canelo to get big, cuz he got big at the getting down to one fifty two. So it's like, I kinda feel it in a way, like I understand it. Now, the rehydration clause is kinda crazy, but I will only do a rehydration clause for fighters if I go up to a hundred and forty seven pounds. Cuz I'm not a one forty seven pounder, so why would I fight at their weight class where they're comfortable?

• 50:42Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 50:43Speaker 03

  Just make it easy for them, like I don't.

• 50:45Joe Rogan?

  Well, the thing about a fighter like you is it's just difficult to find big names. I mean, if Gervonta fights again, that's a that's a big fight if you, but that would probably be at one thirty five, which you could probably still make easy, right?

• 50:59Speaker 03

  Easy.

• 51:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 51:00Speaker 03

  No problem.

• 51:01Joe Rogan?

  So you have fights at one thirty five and fights at one forty, but it's just gonna be hard to get someone to step up that is going to be that big pay-per-view selling fight.

• 51:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 51:13Joe Rogan?

  That's the problem.

• 51:13Speaker 03

  That is the problem.

• 51:14Joe Rogan?

  You're too good. That's the problem. You're too good.

• 51:17Speaker 03

  Somebody told me that before I went pro before, they was like, you gonna have a hard time in the pros, I'm telling you.

• 51:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 51:24Speaker 03

  But I understand it now.

• 51:26Joe Rogan?

  Do you remember your first pro fight? You remember what it felt like?

• 51:29Speaker 03

  It felt like a whole new experience.

• 51:31Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 51:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 51:32Joe Rogan?

  How so?

• 51:34Speaker 03

  I've been, when I was in the amateurs, guys wasn't as like dirty as the professionals. Like, you don't get introduced into dirty boxing until you turn professional.

• 51:47Joe Rogan?

  Didn't you get headbutted in your first fight?

• 51:50Speaker 03

  He headbutted me and that's what kinda-

• 51:52Joe Rogan?

  On purpose, right?

• 51:53Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 51:53Joe Rogan?

  Not an accidental headbutt.

• 51:54Speaker 03

  That's what kinda make me say, okay, I understand. This is a whole different atmosphere. It's not the same amateur and the pros. And a lot of guys from the amateurs don't adjust to the pros as well as I did, so.

• 52:11Joe Rogan?

  Hmm, well, it's all about styles, right? Like, there's some guys who have styles that are just much better for point fighting and fighting amateurs.

• 52:19Speaker 03

  Nah, it's actually, um, you gotta develop a lot of things, like, um, punch placement, like, punching hard is really a real thing in the pros. Like, you gotta have something to make somebody respect you. That's why when I hear people say, like, "I got pillowhands," I'm like, "Y'all clearly must not be watching."

• 52:38Joe Rogan?

  Who's saying that?

• 52:39Speaker 03

  Uh, it'd be a lot of people. They say, "I got pillowhands."

• 52:41Joe Rogan?

  No, you just fight smart.

• 52:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, but I don't understand it, cuz it's like, if I had pillowhands, right? Why guys don't just go in there and just knock me out, like? If I'm fighting somebody with pillowhands, I'm just gonna put my, my shield up and-

• 52:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 52:57Speaker 03

  Just swing for the fences, cuz they can't hurt me, like-

• 53:00Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 53:00Speaker 03

  I don't understand why nobody won't do that if I got pillowhands.

• 53:04Joe Rogan?

  You don't have pillowhands, it's nonsense talk. What you have is a boxing intelligence where you know when to hit full blast and when to just touch him up and crack him a little bit.

• 53:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:16Joe Rogan?

  And the accumulation of blows, the frustration, the, the, the mental confusion that a fighter gets when they can't hit you and you can hit them, and then you start ramping it up, and then you start tuning them up.

• 53:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:28Joe Rogan?

  I mean, it's people that, the people that are saying that just don't understand what you're doing.

• 53:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, for sure.

• 53:33Joe Rogan?

  What you're doing is just perfect. You're fighting intelligent.

• 53:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:37Joe Rogan?

  And that's what I love. I love watching a guy just outbox the fuck out of somebody. I love it.

• 53:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:42Joe Rogan?

  Like I said, that, that, like, you were doing this, like, half-speed jab, and then from right there, "Pah!" And you could tell Tio was like, "Jesus Christ." You could tell he was confused. It was so fast.

• 53:54Speaker 03

  It's too fast.

• 53:55Joe Rogan?

  It was so fast. But that accumulation of blows over time, and his corner, it was crazy. Did you listen to the fight, like, did you go back and watch it?

• 54:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, I went back and watched it.

• 54:05Joe Rogan?

  His corner's like, "You gotta hit him." Like what?

• 54:07Speaker 03

  It's so crazy though, cuz like, what I see with his corner is like, he been doing this. Like his dad been getting in the ring and giving him them type of instructions.

• 54:19Joe Rogan?

  Uh huh.

• 54:19Speaker 03

  But T O has been always so good to where the instructions he giving him really does not matter cuz he's in control, he's winning these fights, he's doing what he's supposed to do. But that night, he did need.

• 54:33Joe Rogan?

  He needed a real coach.

• 54:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, he needed something better than that.

• 54:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, not that his dad's not a real coach, but he needed some tactical advice. He needed some instruction on what this guy's doing to you and you gotta switch it up entirely. You gotta do something that confuses him.

• 54:47Speaker 03

  His dad is used to like, something different. That's why he went in there and said like, where's your power, bro? He's used to T O's power showing up and the amazing things that T O does in the boxing ring. He's used to that, but whenever you going against somebody who's on a different level also, you gotta be well prepared within like a game plan.

• 55:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 55:12Speaker 03

  All that kinda stuff and I didn't see no game plan.

• 55:15Joe Rogan?

  Did you, did you know anybody that was his camp or ask anybody after the fight? Like, what was his game plan? What did he think was gonna be different?

• 55:24Speaker 03

  Nah, I didn't, actually, I just.

• 55:26Joe Rogan?

  I'd be interested to know that.

• 55:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'd do too, but, um, I did run into him after the fight. I ran into T O in the back, so.

• 55:33Joe Rogan?

  Was he cool?

• 55:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, he was cool. It was actually a good conversation. I felt bad that he was by himself. His manager kinda cleaned it up, but during the moment that I seen him in the back, he was by himself, so I didn't like that.

• 55:48Joe Rogan?

  Oh, man.

• 55:48Speaker 03

  I didn't like that.

• 55:49Joe Rogan?

  No, that's a bummer.

• 55:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, but I mean, they said they was with him all night, so, um, respect to them.

• 55:54Joe Rogan?

  So maybe he just, you just caught him in a moment when he was alone.

• 55:57Speaker 03

  A bad moment, yep.

• 55:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's the last thing you wanna see is a dude who gets abandoned after a loss, like, oh my god. And then you gotta go back to camp with those assholes?

• 56:04Speaker 03

  I don't even like how the sport is kinda treating him now, like, everybody act like he just is. Terrible fighter, but.

• 56:12Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's crazy.

• 56:13Speaker 03

  I don't understand it when you gotta give him respect, like this dude actually stepped up and fought a guy that nobody else wants to fight, so. He did it. Laid it on the line, it didn't go his way, but he did, he he tried.

• 56:27Joe Rogan?

  The thing is, I don't know if that guy's ever gonna separate from his father. You know, I don't know if that guy ever is gonna bring in another world-class trainer that maybe would be able to recognize some things that he's doing that he can prove upon.

• 56:39Speaker 03

  You know what's so crazy? During the fight, he had a coach in his corner, and I know the coach, um, he's from Florida, I wanna say. His coach was telling him some good advice. I don't think he heard him or was listening to him, but he was telling him some good advice.

• 56:56Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 56:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't, I I don't wanna say what the advice is, because I got future opponents, I gotta make.

• 57:02Joe Rogan?

  Well, someone could go back and listen.

• 57:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, I can't tell what the advice was, but. He was giving him some good advice.

• 57:08Joe Rogan?

  Interesting. Yeah, it's hard, those father-son teams, there's always, i- i- there's a lot of conflict with those.

• 57:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, because I done watched it over the years, I feel like dads like stay on top of they fighter and they like. They they they they make it, they make it less fun. And I feel like, um, that's why I think my granddad is one of the best coaches, cuz he allowed me to love the sport of boxing myself, like. Um, when I had my football games and my pop won the games, he came to my game, watched them cheer, don't wanna support it me, but soon as I lost, I'm on the field crying, I'm like, ah. He comes up to me, he say,

• 57:56Speaker 03

  you know, in boxing, you only could lose because of yourself. And I'm looking, I'm like, damn, what he mean, bruh? I'm like, oh, that is true, cuz like you're the one in a boxing ring doing the boxing, then, um. When I lost that football game, he was basically trying to say it was my coach's fault.

• 58:20Speaker 03

  So like, he just allowed me to choose boxing though, like he, he always supported me when I did other things, but he kinda like, he ain't just stay on top of me, like hound me with it, like.

• 58:30Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 58:31Speaker 03

  He just took me to the gym and.

• 58:32Joe Rogan?

  Well, you gotta let a young man become his own man.

• 58:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, he allowed me to choose and I think, um, fathers and the sport don't allow their sons to choose it too, like they're choosing it for them.

• 58:44Joe Rogan?

  Right, and a lot of them are overbearing in the corner, it becomes a problem.

• 58:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 58:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 58:50Speaker 03

  And they kinda be, coaches should listen to what I'm about to say, the father coaches.

• 58:57Speaker 03

  There has to be a difference between a father and a coach. So when you're coaching your son, you have to be a coach in the boxing ring, instead of the father, because when you're the father, they're gonna reciprocate things wrong and I feel like, with coaches, when you coaching, they can hear you a lot better.

• 59:21Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm. This show is presented by DraftKings. Think DraftKings isn't available in your state, think again. DraftKings is now live in all 50 states and on October 31st, Canelo Alvarez returns to the ring to face undefeated Christian Mobily, live on Dzone. Download the DraftKings Sports app and use code ROGEN. New DraftKings customers can spend five and get 200 in total bonuses, includes all markets. That's code ROGEN in partnership with DraftKings, the crown is yours.

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• 1:00:29Joe Rogan?

  This episode is brought to you by the Apple Sports app. Guys, this is the ultimate best time of the year to be a sports fan. Football, baseball, basketball, hockey, soccer. The calendar is stacked, but it can also be hard to keep track of it all. And that is where the Apple Sports app comes into play. It is the fastest and easiest way to stay on top of all the action. With scores and play by play automatically showing up on your iPhone. When the teams you follow are playing. That means you don't have to figure out when the games are on and how your team is doing. Which is especially nice when you're following a bunch of teams. And your friends are constantly blowing up the group chat.

• 1:01:13Joe Rogan?

  The Apple Sports app gives you all the important game details. For your favorite sports teams, fast and simple. Download Apple Sports for free on the App Store or find it on your new iPhone.

• 1:01:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:01:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well, there's also the relationship with the father and the son where the father wants his son to listen to him. Listen to me, I'm your father. You go out, you're gonna do this. And you're like, fuck the fuck off of me.

• 1:01:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:01:38Joe Rogan?

  Fuck off me dad.

• 1:01:39Speaker 03

  And you you doing more harm to your son than actually doing good for him, so.

• 1:01:44Joe Rogan?

  Well, especially not giving him technical advice.

• 1:01:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:01:47Joe Rogan?

  Like, that is where he needed real technical advice.

• 1:01:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:01:50Joe Rogan?

  Cause there was a lot of shit you were doing that he just did not have an answer for.

• 1:01:53Speaker 03

  He didn't understand.

• 1:01:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:54Speaker 03

  He didn't understand. He didn't clean up his bad habits and. That's the thing with these fighters, a lot of them got bad habits and things that they do and I'm gonna expose it, so.

• 1:02:04Joe Rogan?

  Well, I mean, the environment that you came up in and having a guy like Terrence and having other elite fighters that you train with all the time. That's so important. It's so invaluable. Cause all that shit gets exposed in the gym.

• 1:02:18Speaker 03

  It does. That's where you work on it at.

• 1:02:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:20Speaker 03

  That's where you work on it. If you ain't work on it in the gym, on fight night, it's gonna be exposed.

• 1:02:25Joe Rogan?

  There's no if, ands, or buts about it.

• 1:02:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:02:28Joe Rogan?

  How important do you think um an amateur career is? Like, do you think a guy like Lomachenko maybe would have been an even better boxer if he didn't have so many amateur fights? And went into the pros at an earlier age?

• 1:02:43Speaker 03

  I think an amateur career is important because you gotta have that experience.

• 1:02:50Speaker 03

  But I done seen different to where like guys have developed a lot more in the gym. Like I done seen guys stay in the gym, not go to tournaments. And they'll get better and better and then out of nowhere they'll go to one tournament and then you'll be like, who the fuck is this guy?

• 1:03:07Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:03:07Speaker 03

  Where did he come from? How did he get so good? Um, I think like developing in the gym is like the biggest thing, like who you sparring? Who you training with? All of that stuff really matters the most. The amateur experience is cool, like old Lomachenko, but if Lomachenko had different things around him in the gym, I feel like he probably would have been a better fighter. And he was already good.

• 1:03:30Joe Rogan?

  With Lomachenko, it's so crazy because he really should have been fighting at one twenty-six. I mean, he really was never a one hundred and forty pound fighter.

• 1:03:37Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:03:37Joe Rogan?

  He's a small guy.

• 1:03:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't understand that. I don't, I didn't, I didn't understand that because I think it kind of tarnished his career in a way to where like the way people look at him. People don't look at him the same as they should because he was really, really good. But he was at a weight class that he really wasn't supposed to be at. So of course you're gonna have like a harder time with them bigger guys.

• 1:04:02Joe Rogan?

  Right, like Teo.

• 1:04:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, like Teo, yeah.

• 1:04:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that was a perfect example. Teo was huge in that fight.

• 1:04:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:04:07Joe Rogan?

  He looked so much bigger than Lomachenko and just so dangerous that it like fucked Lomachenko's strategy up. Because you know, you got missiles coming at you from a giant dude. I mean, Teo's stacked.

• 1:04:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:04:18Joe Rogan?

  And so you gotta think like for those guys, I guess it's just about chasing the multiple world titles and the, the bigger money at the higher weight classes.

• 1:04:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's what, um, with Lomachenko though, he act like he wasn't really like super money hungry. So I never really understood. Seemed like he's maybe, yeah, you're right about that. He was chasing undisputed.

• 1:04:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, undisputed and world titles. I feel, I felt like he got robbed in the Devin Haney fight though. Do you think that?

• 1:04:46Speaker 03

  To this day, yeah, I do think.

• 1:04:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:48Speaker 03

  I, I scored the fight for Lomachenko.

• 1:04:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I did too. I watched it three times in a row because I was like, what am I getting wrong here? Am I getting this wrong before I start talking about it?

• 1:04:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:04:57Joe Rogan?

  And I was like, no, no, Lomachenko should have won.

• 1:04:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, I thought Lomachenko won.

• 1:05:01Joe Rogan?

  That was one of those where I was like, ooh. And I think that fight fucked with Devin Haney's head a little bit. Like was that makes you feel like shit. When you win a fight and everybody thinks that you lost the fight and you got like. Then you have to carry that around with you everywhere. Everybody like, Lomachenko beat you, you're like, no he didn't.

• 1:05:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's a mental battle.

• 1:05:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:19Speaker 03

  It's a mental battle.

• 1:05:20Joe Rogan?

  And then you gotta get it back.

• 1:05:21Speaker 03

  I think in that fight, he really wasn't even finding the best version of Devin because Devin was fighting at a weight class he really shouldn't have been at.

• 1:05:30Joe Rogan?

  What was that fight at? Was that thirty five? Yeah. Then Devin should have been at one forty?

• 1:05:35Speaker 03

  At that time, yeah, he should have been at one forty. He was too big for thirty five.

• 1:05:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. It's um, it's interesting, man, that balance of, we're all fucked up in MMA because MMA, there's, there's too few weight classes. And so there's giant gaps, like huge gaps, like at one eighty five to two oh five, you know, one fifty five to one seventy. Those, there's no weight classes in between. I mean, that's nuts.

• 1:05:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's insane.

• 1:06:01Joe Rogan?

  I agree.

• 1:06:01Speaker 03

  I mean, it's guys that's like, little fighting bigger guys, cuz it ain't enough weight classes for them to be in, so that sounds crazy.

• 1:06:11Joe Rogan?

  It's stupid. It is the one major complaint that I've had with the UFC for a decade. I was like, we need way more weight classes. And they, they're like, no, we're gonna keep it pure. These are the champs. It's only eight champs. Like, nah, that's crazy.

• 1:06:25Speaker 03

  I need to start watching the UFC.

• 1:06:26Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's fun. There's one this weekend in Vegas if you're around.

• 1:06:29Speaker 03

  I'm gonna watch some of it.

• 1:06:31Joe Rogan?

  It's a good one.

• 1:06:31Speaker 03

  I'm gonna watch it cuz I'm, I'm like, like, lost. Like, I'm not really in tune with like a lot of the UFC guys. And the UFC people be kinda mad at me when I, I say boxing is better, but it's my sport, so.

• 1:06:44Joe Rogan?

  Of course you're gonna think it's better. It's what your life is based around.

• 1:06:47Speaker 03

  For sure.

• 1:06:47Joe Rogan?

  Of course. And if you talk to Max Holloway, he's gonna say MMA is better.

• 1:06:52Speaker 03

  Exactly. And they got good explanations. Like, I understand what they saying. Like, you could do, it's more like skills you gotta learn in MMA, but. For me, I just feel like boxing like the skill level and the talent for me, I like better.

• 1:07:07Joe Rogan?

  Well, there is no question. The skill level and the talent when it comes to punching is way better in boxing. You see some sloppy shit that people do in MMA with boxing. But you also have to think they're thinking about takedowns, they're thinking about getting kicked. They're thinking about their calves getting kicked out from under them, their legs getting kicked, their body getting kicked.

• 1:07:27Speaker 03

  So it's messing up their punching, huh?

• 1:07:29Joe Rogan?

  Everything. Knees, elbows, and then there's stuff that you do in boxing that you can't do in MMA because like your leg's exposed. You know, like there's certain positions that you you would throw punches in that a guy would just calf kick you. And you get hit with one of those, you're like, oh shit. And all of a sudden your calf is numb. And you're not moving good and your ankle doesn't work. It's terrible. But that's the beauty of that sport is that it's so diverse. But the beauty of boxing is that it's so concentrated on hand techniques. That the boxing techniques in in boxing are far superior than what you're gonna see in MMA. You see a few guys in MMA that could make it as pro boxers. But you don't see your level or, you know, or.

• 1:08:12Speaker 03

  They can't be elite level, basically, yeah.

• 1:08:14Joe Rogan?

  There's no way you can.

• 1:08:16Speaker 03

  Impossible. You ain't been doing it for long enough.

• 1:08:19Joe Rogan?

  Just like you don't see these elite MMA fighters that could compete in jujitsu tournaments. And win world championships. It's very, very rare. They used to, the the only way that happens is if they were a world champion in jujitsu before they got into MMA. And they still have those skills at a very, very high level. Then some of those guys can kind of compete in world-class levels.

• 1:08:40Speaker 03

  So what you, what would you say is like the best skill in like the MMA?

• 1:08:45Joe Rogan?

  Wrestling.

• 1:08:46Speaker 03

  Wrestling, huh? I knew it. I already knew it before I asked.

• 1:08:49Joe Rogan?

  Cause wrestlers can take everybody down. And if you get taken down, you're fucked.

• 1:08:53Speaker 03

  I wanna learn how to wrestle.

• 1:08:54Joe Rogan?

  It's a great, well, Terrence, show you how. Terrence, Terrence is like one of the only boxers that are like, if that guy fought in MMA, he could do very well.

• 1:09:02Speaker 03

  He would.

• 1:09:03Joe Rogan?

  He would do very well.

• 1:09:04Speaker 03

  I watched him wrestle an actual like USA team wrestler in. He was kind of a

• 1:09:11Joe Rogan?

  He could wrestle.

• 1:09:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, he was kind of, he was good, he was good, he wasn't getting

• 1:09:15Joe Rogan?

  He's not lost.

• 1:09:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:09:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he knows what he's doing, and look, his son just won a state title.

• 1:09:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, for sure, he's the truth.

• 1:09:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:21Speaker 03

  I want to learn how to wrestle.

• 1:09:23Joe Rogan?

  It's a good thing to know. It's a good thing, because it's a humbling thing.

• 1:09:26Speaker 03

  I feel like they the strongest people.

• 1:09:28Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:09:28Speaker 03

  Like, I feel like when they kind of strength, like, real strength.

• 1:09:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:32Speaker 03

  Their bodies are like stronger than most.

• 1:09:35Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's a different thing. When they get a hold of you, you feel like a child.

• 1:09:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:09:39Joe Rogan?

  You just get ragdolled, like, this is embarrassing.

• 1:09:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:09:42Joe Rogan?

  You know, that's the most important skill, I feel. But every fight starts standing up. You know, every round starts standing up. You know, at the beginning of the round, you're standing up again, so that guy's got to take you down again.

• 1:09:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:09:54Joe Rogan?

  And in that

• 1:09:56Speaker 03

  It's time to catch somebody.

• 1:09:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's when you can catch someone.

• 1:09:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, I figured that.

• 1:10:00Joe Rogan?

  Look, there's elite fighters that aren't great wrestlers in MMA, like Alex Pereira, who's a two-division world champion.

• 1:10:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:10:07Joe Rogan?

  But he's just a destructive kickboxer.

• 1:10:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:10:10Joe Rogan?

  He's such a terrifying kickboxer.

• 1:10:12Speaker 03

  What is, uh, John Jones?

• 1:10:13Joe Rogan?

  John Jones is a wrestler.

• 1:10:14Speaker 03

  He a wrestler?

• 1:10:15Joe Rogan?

  Well, he's an everything fighter, he could do everything.

• 1:10:17Speaker 03

  For real.

• 1:10:17Joe Rogan?

  But he started out his career as a wrestler.

• 1:10:22Speaker 03

  I like him.

• 1:10:22Joe Rogan?

  Oh, he's the best, ever.

• 1:10:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:10:24Joe Rogan?

  The best ever. He's the best ever, because he's the smartest of all of them. I mean, he's, that guy studies.

• 1:10:30Speaker 03

  That's why I liked him, that's exactly why I like him. I seen a video of him saying, like, he watches everything, like, from top to bottom. He'll watch your interviews, he gonna watch.

• 1:10:39Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:10:40Speaker 03

  Every single thing, until he find a weakness.

• 1:10:43Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:10:43Speaker 03

  That's why I like him.

• 1:10:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he gets inside their head. He knows every tendency they do. He sets traps. He does everything. It's funny, Daniel Cormier, who I love to death, is a great friend of mine. When he fought John Jones, they were talking before the fight about tendencies. And Daniel's like, oh, I know what you think I'm gonna do, you think I'm gonna lean towards the right, and you're gonna kick me in the head. And John did exactly that in the fight. It was so crazy, when he landed it. Look, I love both of those guys, but Dan- Daniel's a close friend. And so when he landed that head kick, I was like, no. You know, and I'm doing commentary, so I I've gotta like

• 1:11:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:11:20Joe Rogan?

  I've gotta be balanced and you know, and I do love both of those guys, but I was like, damn, he did exactly what he said he was going to do.

• 1:11:27Speaker 03

  He said it on the commentary?

• 1:11:29Joe Rogan?

  No, I didn't say it on the commentary. I don't wanna call it out there, but in in the pre-fight, they were talking shit to each other.

• 1:11:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:11:36Joe Rogan?

  And one of the things like, you have some tendencies, Daniel, and I'm gonna exploit those tendencies. And he was like, oh, you mean how I dipped to the right? When I go.

• 1:11:43Speaker 03

  And he did exactly that.

• 1:11:45Joe Rogan?

  He caught him with that head kick. I was like, no. Oh.

• 1:11:49Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 1:11:50Joe Rogan?

  But, look, that's the GOAT. That's the guy, man. He's the guy. He's the guy who always figures out a way to win. He figures it out.

• 1:11:57Speaker 03

  I heard it was somebody that he was supposed to fight, though, that that wanted to fight him. It was like somebody really good.

• 1:12:03Joe Rogan?

  Oh, Tom Aspinall?

• 1:12:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's what I heard.

• 1:12:05Joe Rogan?

  Well, see, the thing with that is, you know, John is at the stage of his career where he's like, I wanna fight legends. And I wanna fight fights that are like big fights against big names that matter. Tom Aspinall carried a high risk. He wasn't a very well-known fighter, even though he was the heavyweight champion. And he was really the heavyweight champion because John resigned the title. Alright, so he was the interim heavyweight champion, so they had a like an interim title. And John was the undisputed heavyweight champion, and they were supposed to fight, and they they didn't make that happen. But now, you know, after that fight, John is still trying to figure out if he's going to fight again. If he's gonna fight again, maybe he will fight, cuz there's a big White House card in.

• 1:12:49Speaker 03

  I heard about that.

• 1:12:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And the White House card is a big one. And if that happens, that it won't be Aspinall, probably, cuz Aspinall just went through eye surgery.

• 1:12:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:13:00Joe Rogan?

  Two different eye surgeries. He got poked in the eyes in his fight.

• 1:13:03Speaker 03

  Aren't you like involved in the UFC?

• 1:13:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, I'm the commentator.

• 1:13:07Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:13:07Joe Rogan?

  I'm one of the commentators.

• 1:13:08Speaker 03

  So are you gonna be doing like Zuffa Boxing, too, or?

• 1:13:11Joe Rogan?

  No, no, no, no, no. No, that's, uh, Kellerman, Andre Ward, you know, they they do a great job over there.

• 1:13:17Speaker 03

  For sure.

• 1:13:18Joe Rogan?

  Um, I'll definitely watch some of those fights, though. I think it's interesting. It's it look, I think it's good to have more organizations that. are competing to get the fighters because then the fighters will get more money.

• 1:13:29Speaker 03

  Money, yes.

• 1:13:30Joe Rogan?

  And I think MMA could use that too. Unfortunately, the UFC is the big name in MMA. And MMA, unlike boxing, is all about the UFC. In boxing, it's all about who's the champ. Nobody gives a shit if it's Golden Boy or Bob Arum. Nobody gives a fuck who the promoter is. It's like, who is the fighter that's fighting? Is it Triple G versus Canelo? Is it, who is, who are the fighters?

• 1:13:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:13:56Joe Rogan?

  And unfortunately with MMA, it's not that. It's like if you are an excellent fighter, but you fight for the PFL, nobody knows. Nobody knows.

• 1:14:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:14:06Joe Rogan?

  There's a small audience of hardcore people that pay attention.

• 1:14:09Speaker 03

  Somebody fight for the PFL. Clarissa, huh?

• 1:14:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, she fought for the PFL. She's crazy. That lady's wild.

• 1:14:16Speaker 03

  She's the best.

• 1:14:17Joe Rogan?

  She's wild. Oh, she's, she's the best. She's the best.

• 1:14:20Speaker 03

  There's nobody better.

• 1:14:21Joe Rogan?

  I mean, she's the heavyweight champ now. It's crazy.

• 1:14:24Speaker 03

  I, I just wish she was kind of smaller so like some of the smaller girls who really think that they can be her.

• 1:14:30Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:14:31Speaker 03

  Can see like.

• 1:14:33Joe Rogan?

  There's levels.

• 1:14:34Speaker 03

  Man.

• 1:14:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:35Speaker 03

  She's the GOAT.

• 1:14:36Joe Rogan?

  She is the GOAT, but she's, she's not getting, I mean, as much as the love that she does get, she's not getting what she deserves. And it's just because there's just not a lot of competition.

• 1:14:46Speaker 03

  I don't understand it. I don't understand it. Two Olympic gold medals.

• 1:14:50Joe Rogan?

  I know.

• 1:14:51Speaker 03

  Undisputed several times in the sport. I, I just don't get it.

• 1:14:55Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's just women's boxing does not have the same level of respect and appreciation that men's boxing does, unfortunately.

• 1:15:02Speaker 03

  Well, Clarissa, I respect and appreciate you and you are my GOAT, so.

• 1:15:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I, I do as well.

• 1:15:08Speaker 01

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• 1:15:34Speaker 05

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• 1:15:46Speaker 00

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• 1:16:06Speaker 05

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• 1:16:33Speaker 00

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• 1:16:39Joe Rogan?

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• 1:17:24Joe Rogan?

  Or get the premium Visible Plus Pro Plan and save $10 on your first month with promo code ROGEN. Terms apply. See visible.com for plan features and network management details. I've had her on. She's awesome. I've had her on the podcast. I'm a big fan of her. And I'm just the only one that had the courage to fight in MMA. I mean, that was crazy.

• 1:17:45Speaker 03

  She's tough. And she really did, like, not bad, but she was fighting against lesser competition, so.

• 1:17:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:51Speaker 03

  But she definitely was like, you could tell she was trying.

• 1:17:55Joe Rogan?

  She would, she had to learn the grappling from a beginner's perspective.

• 1:17:58Speaker 03

  And she was breaking out of them, like, chokeholds. Niggas getting hurt.

• 1:18:02Joe Rogan?

  Well, she knows how to win, you know, and that's, sometimes that's enough. You know, at that higher level, as elite a level as she is. But I think she's rightly just concentrating on boxing because I think she realizes that to, to be a world champion in MMA, she'd kind of have to abandon boxing.

• 1:18:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, for sure.

• 1:18:21Joe Rogan?

  And it would be a long.

• 1:18:23Speaker 03

  Process.

• 1:18:23Joe Rogan?

  Journey.

• 1:18:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:18:24Joe Rogan?

  And she'd probably have to absorb a couple more losses and.

• 1:18:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:18:28Joe Rogan?

  She's like, why should we do that?

• 1:18:29Speaker 03

  It ain't really worth it.

• 1:18:29Joe Rogan?

  Fuck these girls up in boxing.

• 1:18:32Speaker 03

  And I know she don't like losing, so.

• 1:18:34Joe Rogan?

  No, not at all, no.

• 1:18:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, I get it.

• 1:18:37Joe Rogan?

  She's fun. She's a fun fighter to watch, though. If anybody can get people to pay attention to women's boxing, it's Clarissa.

• 1:18:44Speaker 03

  Yes, because she's exciting. I don't see, that's why I don't understand. I don't get it. I don't get it. She deserved all her flowers. She's the truth and I've never seen nobody, no female as good as her ever in my life.

• 1:18:59Joe Rogan?

  No, she's probably the greatest of all time. I, I think everybody would agree. You know, you've had a few, there's a few great fighters over the years that have been female fighters, but she's the real standout.

• 1:19:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:19:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:09Speaker 03

  No question.

• 1:19:10Joe Rogan?

  It's just unfortunately, that sport, I mean, there's not a lot of women out there that want to get punched in the face. If you had a room full of a thousand women, there might be like one or two like, I'll try that. You know what I mean?

• 1:19:23Speaker 03

  Now, I think there's some solid female fighters in the sport of boxing.

• 1:19:26Joe Rogan?

  Oh, there are. There are. But not in comparison to the numbers in men. Men's boxing is just, is, you know, a lot of kids grow up, they want to be a boxer.

• 1:19:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, for sure.

• 1:19:36Joe Rogan?

  Not a lot of women are like, let me put the doll down and fuck some chick up.

• 1:19:42Joe Rogan?

  That's, that's an unusual mindset.

• 1:19:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, it is.

• 1:19:45Joe Rogan?

  You know, it's just, you know, it is what it is. It's, um, it's, we're fortunate to be able to have her, though. Like, because like, if there's anybody that's going to elevate the sport and bring in new fighters, it's going to be someone who is the, really the only person in the sport that gets a tremendous amount of attention as a woman.

• 1:20:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, she, she done became a superstar, so.

• 1:20:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:05Speaker 03

  It's definitely, uh, interesting seeing her in like them big arenas and having all the people walk out with her and it's amazing to see, so I'm, I'm enjoying her process and I'm glad that I'm here to witness it.

• 1:20:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, me too. Yeah. I mean, but, you know, other than her, in the past, there, there haven't been enough, like, women that have like really, you know, Christie Martin, Le Lali.

• 1:20:32Joe Rogan?

  And this is like a few that-

• 1:20:34Speaker 03

  I like Anne Wolfe.

• 1:20:35Joe Rogan?

  Anne Wolfe was a beast.

• 1:20:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, I like her.

• 1:20:36Joe Rogan?

  She was one of the few that could flatline a chick with one shot, too.

• 1:20:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, I like her. She was the truth.

• 1:20:41Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, man.

• 1:20:42Speaker 03

  She was the truth.

• 1:20:43Joe Rogan?

  And a great trainer, too.

• 1:20:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:20:45Joe Rogan?

  When she was training Kirkland, yeah. Bro, they showed those videos of what she was putting him through, and, you know, when he fought Canelo, he didn't have her in his corner.

• 1:20:54Speaker 03

  I was just about to say, the fights that he lost, he kinda did not have her, huh?

• 1:20:57Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 1:20:58Speaker 03

  In the fights that he won.

• 1:21:00Joe Rogan?

  Fucking general, dude. She was a general. She put him through some brutal shit, but those were the fights that he was ultra-prepared.

• 1:21:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:21:08Joe Rogan?

  You know?

• 1:21:09Speaker 03

  I think that's the, like, people don't realize, I feel like the best coaches in the sport of boxing are the people that kinda box.

• 1:21:16Joe Rogan?

  I bet, yeah.

• 1:21:17Speaker 03

  Like Robert Garcia, I think he's the truth as a coach.

• 1:21:21Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 1:21:22Speaker 03

  Bomack, Bomack another fighter.

• 1:21:24Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 1:21:26Speaker 03

  Buddy McGirt, he was a good-

• 1:21:27Joe Rogan?

  Yep, oh, he was a great fighter.

• 1:21:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, I just feel like the coaches that's been in there is kinda like, they know.

• 1:21:33Joe Rogan?

  Sure, yeah. I think it helps a lot. I mean, there's a few guys, like Emmanuel Stewart, did he have an amateur background?

• 1:21:41Speaker 03

  I think so.

• 1:21:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:43Speaker 03

  I'm not sure, I think so, though. I think so.

• 1:21:45Joe Rogan?

  Emmanuel just had a brilliant mind for the sport.

• 1:21:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, I like the way he talked, too. I be watching some of his old videos.

• 1:21:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:52Speaker 03

  He actually, it was something that I was doing in my fight, for this fight, where I watched the video of him, and he said, fighters overtrained, like they're overtrained, and when I seen it, he started explaining the reasons why you know that they're overtraining, and I seen it, I started cutting back on some some of the things that I'm doing. I'm like, man, I don't wanna overtrain, and don't come out at my best.

• 1:22:18Joe Rogan?

  Amateur boxing career, he compiled a record of ninety-four wins, three losses in the amateur, including winning the nineteen sixty-three National Golden Gloves Tournament in the bantamweight division. Wow, bantamweight? That's crazy.

• 1:22:30Speaker 03

  I mean, he was small.

• 1:22:32Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 1:22:34Joe Rogan?

  But man, what he did with the Kronk Gym. He also had this gym like cranked up. He made it like ninety-eight degrees in there all the time. So everybody was like training in the heat.

• 1:22:43Speaker 03

  Yep. He had a lot of boxers that was like top level boxers in there, so they was pushing each other to get better, so.

• 1:22:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:51Speaker 03

  That's the cheat code right there.

• 1:22:52Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it is the cheat code, right? Iron sharpens iron.

• 1:22:55Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:22:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you can't be the best boxer in your gym and have everybody else just way below you and really get to that world-class level.

• 1:23:02Speaker 03

  Impossible. It's impossible. You gotta bring in guys that's on a high level and, um, honestly, for me, I keep like the young kids that's like up and coming. Like my little cousin, he's a great boxer and he's up and coming and I just was in the gym with him yesterday and play sparring with him and, um, I keep a lot of good boxers around me. A lot of good boxers. There's another kid, Emmanuel Chance, he's like nineteen years old and like they are so skillful right now to where like when I'm around them, I'm still picking up things from them and they probably don't even know it, but I'm definitely, I I got my notepad out everywhere I go.

• 1:23:45Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's so important, right?

• 1:23:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, like mentally it's locked in here, like I'm watching and studying.

• 1:23:51Joe Rogan?

  Everybody does everything different.

• 1:23:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:23:53Joe Rogan?

  You know, and you could just pick up little things here and there from what they do and start incorporating that.

• 1:23:58Speaker 03

  Yep. People don't know, right before the fight with T.O., it was, um, I'm gonna tell you a fight that I was watching.

• 1:24:05Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:24:06Speaker 03

  I'm gonna, I'm gonna give out a little secret. It was a

• 1:24:11Speaker 03

  eight-year-old kid, Tremaine Williams. He fought a, um, guy named Dusty Harrison. And like they literally eight years old, but I liked the way Tremaine was fighting in that fight. He was using his jab and, um, he was the shorter fighter, but he was keeping his range and distance and I was literally watching an eight-year-old kid fight right before the biggest fight of my life.

• 1:24:33Joe Rogan?

  That's amazing. And you were studying it. Wow.

• 1:24:36Speaker 03

  I swear.

• 1:24:37Joe Rogan?

  That's, that's great. That's such a great mindset.

• 1:24:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:24:41Joe Rogan?

  I mean, that's how you, that's how you really grow and learn. You could absorb something from everybody.

• 1:24:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, you can learn from anywhere.

• 1:24:48Joe Rogan?

  Like I was, I was watching an interview with you once where you were talking about Terrence and you said, you really learn more watching Terrence than you.

• 1:24:55Speaker 03

  Them being in there.

• 1:24:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:56Speaker 03

  Terrence. I still feel that way. Like I feel like. I I learn more from like seeing the things he's doing than like being in the ring. Well, now when we in the ring, it's always chess, like we having chess matches. But when I'm watching, I could see some of the things he's doing and I'm like, damn. This dude is just different like I knew before the Spence fight what was happening. I knew before the Canelo fight what was happening like even when I was in the locker room. I'm in the locker room, I'm looking at him, call my Batman, I'm like, yo, put me some more money in. I know, I know what time it is, no lie though.

• 1:25:37Joe Rogan?

  But watching him in the gym, um, you got to see hard training sessions. You got to see when he looked great, you got to see bad days in the gym. You got to see how he recovered, how he came back.

• 1:25:49Speaker 03

  Yep, um, he like I said, he's one of the most competitive human beings I ever met. So I do get to see all of it, like I get to see go home with him and okay, let me see how he thinking about this. He'll go back and watch the sparring and when he watching it, oh my God, he's adjusting. His brain is just adjusting to the sparring that he just watched and then we'll go in the gym the next day. Now he's just doing things and everything just on point.

• 1:26:20Joe Rogan?

  So do you do that, do you watch your sparring sessions?

• 1:26:22Speaker 03

  I learned that from him.

• 1:26:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah?

• 1:26:24Speaker 03

  I used to really never used to do that, but I had seen him, um, I forget what um sparring session he was watching. I want to say on his iPad and he was watching it and then I seen a sparring the next time and I'm like, woo, we look like a million bucks, like the adjustments that he made was just um insane. So I started doing the same thing, I'm like, if I have a day I don't like, I go home, why did I have this day? Oh my god, I keep doing that. Why do I keep doing that? Okay, I'm not doing that no more. Oh, I can hit him with this. I see that that shot is open. Okay, now I'mma hit him with this shot and um I think that that helps me tremendously.

• 1:27:04Joe Rogan?

  That makes sense, like watching yourself as an observer, the way you would watch an opponent.

• 1:27:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:27:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:11Speaker 03

  You gotta see what you do good and like what you do bad.

• 1:27:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:15Speaker 03

  And correct the things that you do bad.

• 1:27:17Joe Rogan?

  Instead of just remembering it from the training.

• 1:27:20Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:27:21Joe Rogan?

  Watching it, yeah.

• 1:27:22Speaker 03

  Cause I have like a bad habit sometimes when I'm like in a boxing gym. I like a fight. I don't have like, I don't know why I would get in there. Sometimes I just turn into a fighter instead of realizing that I'm a boxer.

• 1:27:38Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:27:38Speaker 03

  And then sometimes I get hit with shots and I'm like, oh, why am I getting hit with that shot? I'm like, I know my mental, my brain was already locked in on fighting instead of being locked in on boxing then. Then you fight.

• 1:27:51Joe Rogan?

  Explain to people, what is the difference between your mentality fighting and your mentality as a boxer?

• 1:27:57Speaker 03

  When I'm fighting, I'm emotional.

• 1:28:01Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 1:28:02Speaker 03

  Like, and I don't wanna be emotional, but I'm emotional and I'm fighting somebody. I'm trying to like beat them up and I'm having a contest of who's the

• 1:28:15Speaker 03

  the bigger and stronger guy and when I'm boxing, I'm just on top of my game and it's like, I'm able to hit you and you not able to hit me. And that's what I do best, so I try to like stick with what I do best and it's gonna be a time to fight. So I have that in my arsenal for sure, but I don't like just doing it for no reason.

• 1:28:38Joe Rogan?

  Do you sometimes feel yourself getting emotional, fighting, have to pull it back?

• 1:28:43Speaker 03

  I never had it happen in a fight, but I done had it happen like in a spot to where like, aight, bro, you. Your emotions is just taking control instead of like, you just having fun and enjoying what you doing.

• 1:28:57Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:28:57Speaker 03

  So, yeah, I done had no moments in the gym for sure.

• 1:29:01Joe Rogan?

  So it's just like a composure thing. You look, you're, all of a sudden, you're now not thinking as much, you're just trying to beat his ass.

• 1:29:08Speaker 03

  Take the emotions out of the situation and just be you.

• 1:29:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:12Speaker 03

  Be present. That's really my main thing. I wanna be present in what I'm doing and not moving off of like feelings.

• 1:29:20Joe Rogan?

  Right, right. That probably fucks up a lot of fighters, don't it?

• 1:29:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, for sure.

• 1:29:26Joe Rogan?

  Cause so many, especially men, they're so wrapped up in their feelings and their emotions when they're fighting.

• 1:29:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, but fighters don't study theyself like, I study myself. Like, I gotta check in with myself and see like, what am I doing wrong and what am I doing right and I correct it.

• 1:29:42Joe Rogan?

  You think that's rare?

• 1:29:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think that's a rare attribute, um, cause fighters depend on their coaches. They depend on their coaches to do everything and I do, I depend on my grandfather when I need him, but I know that I'm the fighter that's in there, so I'm not trying to just depend on them. I wanna depend on myself also.

• 1:30:04Joe Rogan?

  So, like, do you try to get the, the other guys in the gym to follow your footsteps and watch footage? You tell them, like, help them out with that?

• 1:30:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, um, like the younger guys that I just mentioned, my little cousin and, uh, my little brother down there, Manny. Um, I try to tell them to tune in with theyself and do the same similar things. Watch yourself, see what you're doing wrong and um, try to correct it, but they younger, so as time go on, they will like pick up on it, but

• 1:30:34Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:30:34Speaker 03

  I can't rush how I feel and my beliefs on them right now.

• 1:30:39Joe Rogan?

  Well, the best thing you could do is lead by example.

• 1:30:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:30:42Joe Rogan?

  Always.

• 1:30:42Speaker 03

  That's my main thing.

• 1:30:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, if you do all the hard work and you put it in, then they'll see your success.

• 1:30:47Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:30:48Joe Rogan?

  When they have harder, harder moments, they'll go, okay, what do I need to adjust?

• 1:30:51Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:30:52Joe Rogan?

  Let me follow Shakur.

• 1:30:53Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:30:54Joe Rogan?

  Well, let me, let me see what the champ is doing.

• 1:30:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's the goal. That's my main goal, cause, um. Like I said, I ain't gonna be boxing forever, so um, once I'm done, I'm gonna sit back and I'ma help them out, so.

• 1:31:06Joe Rogan?

  You plan on coaching when you're done?

• 1:31:09Speaker 03

  I probably don't don't coach.

• 1:31:11Joe Rogan?

  Just help out in the gym?

• 1:31:13Speaker 03

  Just call me a secret weapon.

• 1:31:16Speaker 03

  Call me a secret weapon, I'll be that guy.

• 1:31:18Joe Rogan?

  Do you already think about what you're gonna do when you retire?

• 1:31:23Joe Rogan?

  Cause boxing is a sport where when you retire, you're you still have so much life ahead of you.

• 1:31:28Speaker 03

  Man, that's the truth, but um, I've been trying to like, figure it out, cause I know it's gonna be within boxing. But whatever I do, I'm gonna do to the best of my ability. I'm gonna want to like, make tons of money for what I'm doing and um, if I'm a secret weapon, shit, I might make money just being a secret weapon, so we'll see.

• 1:31:52Joe Rogan?

  Right, just someone bring you into camp?

• 1:31:55Speaker 03

  Uh, I'm the right guy for it.

• 1:31:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah?

• 1:31:57Speaker 03

  I got all the IQ. I watch too much boxing, like my life is like, literally, sit down and watch TV, watch iPad, watch like,

• 1:32:08Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:32:08Speaker 03

  I just live boxing, so I think that'd be kinda easy, but I just see myself like, taking over the world.

• 1:32:17Joe Rogan?

  In what way?

• 1:32:18Speaker 03

  I don't know, like, I can't tell you, like, I don't know, like, my brain kinda like, different, like, I don't feel like, I know for a fact I'm not gonna be boxing for long, like, I don't plan on getting in the ring, doing the wrestling, doing all that forever, so.

• 1:32:35Speaker 03

  When I take over the world, it's gonna be more so like, me just locking in and using the same focus that I got for boxing, into whatever else that I'm doing and, take over, like, whatever I do, I wanna be the best and.

• 1:32:49Joe Rogan?

  So you don't even have a thought of what it's going to be? You'll figure that out when you get out of boxing?

• 1:32:55Speaker 03

  I journal a lot, so I be writing things down, so. I can't tell you exactly what it's gonna be, but I do know that I'm gonna be somewhere, making millions in a different um, atmosphere.

• 1:33:07Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's a great attitude to have. I'm glad you say you journal, because this is one of the things that I wanted to bring up. I wish more boxers were interested in writing books. Because I think there's some of the things that you're talking about today. And some of the things you're talking about in terms of like watching yourself, analyzing yourself, things you've learned. That would be very, very valuable. If it's written down, but boxing knowledge is all.

• 1:33:36Joe Rogan?

  Word of mouth in the gym. It's all people who know things, tell other people and they learn things and you gotta go to these gyms and talk to these people. Or you get boxing knowledge from the commentators like Andre Ward will spit it out or Roy Jones will spit it out. Like that is where boxing knowledge gets sort of recorded.

• 1:33:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:33:57Joe Rogan?

  But I think it would be great if boxers could sit down and write just on boxing. Because you think about like what a huge sport boxing is. Huge sport, like one of the pinnacles of sports of combat sports. But yet, there's not a lot of books written about technique and style and. How they learn things and what they learned and why and what changed and. I learned that in this fight and this fight, this changed and I adjusted this about my training sessions and. I heard Emmanuel Stewart talk about overtraining and so I realized maybe I was doing that.

• 1:34:37Speaker 03

  It is one book.

• 1:34:39Joe Rogan?

  What is it?

• 1:34:40Speaker 03

  Andre Ward book.

• 1:34:40Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's right.

• 1:34:42Speaker 03

  People gotta read it, but I'm not fully done with it either, but as I read through some of it.

• 1:34:49Speaker 03

  He's giving out some free game like.

• 1:34:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:52Speaker 03

  It's free game in there that people could go listen to and. And read it and check it out, cuz it's definitely like.

• 1:34:59Joe Rogan?

  Did he read it for the audiobook?

• 1:35:01Speaker 03

  I'm not sure, I'm not sure. I know I got the actual book, so I just read it. But I didn't, I didn't finish it, I won't say that I finished it, but.

• 1:35:09Joe Rogan?

  But he talks all about those things?

• 1:35:11Speaker 03

  It's a lot of things in there that's like free game, like, okay, ooh, I like that, like. I might take that, like, if you're training, even if you're training a fighter, like. You're training a fighter, it's something that I saw that he said that I'm like, okay. I'mma, I'mma, I'mma take that if I'mma train fighters.

• 1:35:27Joe Rogan?

  Narrated by Andre Ward, perfect. Killing the image, champion's journey, fighting and forgiveness. He's the perfect guy to do that, too. Because like I said, he's the guy that did it right. You know?

• 1:35:38Speaker 03

  And he helped you understand.

• 1:35:40Joe Rogan?

  What's that?

• 1:35:40Speaker 03

  He helped you understand.

• 1:35:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah. Well, we need more books like that. I'll read that book. I, I haven't read it, but I'll read it. Because I think, um, it's just, there's so much knowledge out there in certain camps. And it would benefit the entire sport if someone would document some of that stuff. Because some of that stuff is only told to the fighters that this guy's training, and only told to the other fighters this guy trains with. And it's not, it's not out there, and it could get lost. You know? Like, I'm sure there's some shit that Floyd knows, that only people around him know, that have been told, that will be lost. This episode is brought to you by Traeger. Thanksgiving is around the corner, and nobody wants to spend hours cooking only to end up with a dry bird.

• 1:36:27Joe Rogan?

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• 1:38:16Speaker 03

  yeah for sure

• 1:38:17Joe Rogan?

  you know what I'm saying

• 1:38:18Speaker 03

  it's something he told me before this last fight that I took in and I'm like

• 1:38:22Joe Rogan?

  really what is that

• 1:38:23Speaker 03

  I'm using that um it's simple though it's very simple I don't like I say it's hard for me to keep giving out the maybe when I retire

• 1:38:33Joe Rogan?

  oh come on man what'd he say

• 1:38:36Speaker 03

  nah he just told me um stretching

• 1:38:39Joe Rogan?

  stretching

• 1:38:40Speaker 03

  stretching how powerful like stretching is and I I just gave up it's simple though like people just know it but do people do it

• 1:38:51Joe Rogan?

  dude people don't even do it in MMA

• 1:38:54Speaker 03

  yeah

• 1:38:54Joe Rogan?

  you know how crazy that is where you have to kick and people don't stretch

• 1:38:57Speaker 03

  yeah

• 1:38:58Joe Rogan?

  like I was having a conversation with this dude who was a world champion and I was explaining to him the a jujitsu position I was like this is why it's effective he's like oh I can't get my legs up that high I go what are you talking about you you can you just have to stretch he's like I don't really stretch I go that's crazy

• 1:39:14Speaker 03

  every no there's a lot of fighters in sports that's like I don't see it

• 1:39:21Joe Rogan?

  that's crazy

• 1:39:22Speaker 03

  I don't see it

• 1:39:23Joe Rogan?

  well Floyd has always been a guy who did everything right I mean if you want to emulate a guy's career Floyd has been hit hard maybe three times in his whole career

• 1:39:34Speaker 03

  yeah

• 1:39:34Joe Rogan?

  maybe

• 1:39:35Speaker 03

  yeah he's the truth like

• 1:39:37Joe Rogan?

  a hundred percent

• 1:39:38Speaker 03

  I every time I watch him

• 1:39:39Joe Rogan?

  he's a wizard

• 1:39:40Speaker 03

  I didn't I barely seen anybody like that good like for me personally

• 1:39:45Joe Rogan?

  yes

• 1:39:46Speaker 03

  barely like it's only a handful of people that I could say like okay They're that good, like.

• 1:39:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:53Speaker 03

  His brain is working at a different level than a lot of people.

• 1:39:56Joe Rogan?

  Also, just insanely disciplined, always in shape, always took care of himself. Would go out to a club, drink water and then run home in jeans. In jeans.

• 1:40:06Speaker 03

  That's tough. I heard he had on like boots. Boots. I never heard of that like that before.

• 1:40:15Joe Rogan?

  I can imagine. I mean, but that's the results, right? You get a guy who's just head and shoulders above everybody, he fights. And just a master of pinpoint precision and movement and knowing where you are. And hard to hit, but stood right in front of you. That's the crazy thing about Floyd. There's a lot of guys that are hard to hit, but they were like fleet of foot and moving around and footwork and Lomachenko style, you know? Not Floyd, right in front of you, right in front of you, you can't hit him.

• 1:40:43Speaker 03

  Kind of similar.

• 1:40:44Joe Rogan?

  Crazy.

• 1:40:44Speaker 03

  Kind of similar to me.

• 1:40:46Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:40:47Speaker 03

  But I think he's, he's definitely, he's a cheat code.

• 1:40:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:52Speaker 03

  His mental was just too far ahead of everybody else's.

• 1:40:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:56Speaker 03

  That's the main thing.

• 1:40:57Joe Rogan?

  Well, the one fight between like guys who retired and came back that I'm still interested in seeing is him and Manny. And I know they're gonna do that on Netflix.

• 1:41:07Speaker 03

  Floyd.

• 1:41:08Joe Rogan?

  I think that's still a high level fight, though. That's what I love about it. Cause I think Manny is still a high level fighter. And Floyd, even in these exhibitions that he's been doing.

• 1:41:19Speaker 03

  Looking good, huh?

• 1:41:20Joe Rogan?

  He looks great, man. He looks great in sparring. You see him in sparring, like, good lord, man. It doesn't look like he's lost a step.

• 1:41:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't, I honestly, I don't see Manny being able to beat Floyd Mayweather. Like, I don't see, I, I think Manny looked solid his last fight with Barrios, but um. I just don't see Floyd losing. Like, I think it's some guys that he could come back. Today, in the spoiler box in their fight.

• 1:41:48Joe Rogan?

  I think so.

• 1:41:49Speaker 03

  Like guys like Barrios?

• 1:41:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, right.

• 1:41:51Speaker 03

  I think he was.

• 1:41:52Joe Rogan?

  He would light Barrios up.

• 1:41:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:41:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Yeah, but I mean, it's like, there's levels. I mean, no matter what he's lost, being forty-six, he, they haven't gained that yet. I mean, they're not, they're, they were never there in the first place. Cause if he was here and he's lost this much, they're still here.

• 1:42:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:42:09Joe Rogan?

  And even though he's not Floyd that fought Canelo, or Floyd that fought Ricky Hatton, it's not the same Floyd. It's not that much different.

• 1:42:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's still so far ahead.

• 1:42:23Joe Rogan?

  Cause he's not drinking, he's not fucking his body up, he's not doing anything stupid, he stays in shape, he eats right.

• 1:42:29Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:42:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:31Speaker 03

  I appreciate Floyd too, cause um, that's one of the guys that I never did no business with ever. And he still kinda helped me. So, I appreciate him, man. I think he's a real dude, and um, he got my love and respect.

• 1:42:47Joe Rogan?

  Well, I always say that if you wanted to have a style that you emulate, where you wanna have a great career, look at that guy. Like, really, very few times in his career ever got hurt.

• 1:42:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:42:59Joe Rogan?

  Very, very few. You could count him on one hand.

• 1:43:01Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:43:01Joe Rogan?

  You know, and where he was in any kind of trouble at all.

• 1:43:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's my goal.

• 1:43:05Joe Rogan?

  And then when in rematches, oh my god. In rematches, he's always just like, so, like Maidana, like Maidana, the first fight was a rough fight.

• 1:43:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:43:15Joe Rogan?

  Second fight, he looked like a master.

• 1:43:17Speaker 03

  I'm not gonna lie though, he's one of the guys that makes me want to like, feel the experience of like, getting hurt. Cause like, when he fought Shane Mosley, that moment of like, he lost his whole balance, everything, almost went to his feet, but he stayed up.

• 1:43:38Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 1:43:38Speaker 03

  And then he fought back harder, like, I feel like that was like a amazing moment of his career, and like, for me, I wanna have that experience, like, of that moment, like, I have never got. Hit like crack like that yet in a pro so I I actually want to experience.

• 1:43:55Joe Rogan?

  You really want that?

• 1:43:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:43:57Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:43:58Speaker 03

  Cause I wanna show like.

• 1:43:59Joe Rogan?

  That you could do it.

• 1:44:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, like you gotta see like I got more in me to just than just being like a good boxer like I'm a good boxer but I'm tough too.

• 1:44:07Joe Rogan?

  The Mosley fight was probably the fight where he got hurt the most.

• 1:44:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:44:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and the most dangerous because it was like, I think it was kind of in the middle of the round, right?

• 1:44:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:44:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:16Speaker 03

  I wanna feel that experience.

• 1:44:18Joe Rogan?

  Wow, and that was prime Mosley too.

• 1:44:20Speaker 03

  I told Andrew that he told me he like, man, why would you want to? Why would you want to? But I'm like, I don't understand why, but I definitely do.

• 1:44:29Joe Rogan?

  Who do you think out there could do that?

• 1:44:31Speaker 03

  I don't think nobody.

• 1:44:35Speaker 03

  I don't think they're like mentally on the level to even, I think I'm just too far ahead.

• 1:44:41Joe Rogan?

  That, but that's the problem with being too far ahead is that it's gonna be hard for you to get fights.

• 1:44:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:44:48Joe Rogan?

  What are they talking about right now? Is there anybody that they're talking about right now for you?

• 1:44:52Speaker 03

  Uh, nah, I haven't really heard nothing from a business standpoint since my last fight, so.

• 1:44:59Joe Rogan?

  The problem is the last fight was too good. You know, like you would have probably got some offers before that fight, but after that fight, everybody's like, hold on. I don't know if I want that to happen to me.

• 1:45:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't, I have no clue who I'll be fighting next, so.

• 1:45:14Joe Rogan?

  Who do you have your sights on? Like who do you, like if you could make the decision, who do you think is interesting right now?

• 1:45:20Speaker 03

  If I can make a decision, interest would interest me maybe, and this is crazy to say. Um, I may go back to thirty-five and get that ring belt.

• 1:45:32Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:45:33Speaker 03

  I may. We'll see though.

• 1:45:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah?

• 1:45:35Speaker 03

  I can't promise that I will, but I may.

• 1:45:37Joe Rogan?

  What, what, what makes that more interesting to you?

• 1:45:41Speaker 03

  Um, I like the ring belt. Like I like the ring magazine belt. I don't know what it is about it.

• 1:45:47Joe Rogan?

  It's a classic belt?

• 1:45:49Speaker 03

  But for me to have. A ring belt at one thirty. And then I had, I got a ring belt right now at one forty. But I never had a ring belt at thirty-five. And it's like, should I just go? Get that ring belt just to, just to have it.

• 1:46:07Joe Rogan?

  So it's the belt, not even the opponent?

• 1:46:10Speaker 03

  I know the opponent that, uh, I would have to fight to get it. Um, I'm hearing is, um, Raymond Morretier. Um, he's a good fighter. He just beat, um, Andy Crews, so. Um, nah, this ain't the opponent. It's more so just to have a ring belt.

• 1:46:23Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy. Like, you're at a position where you're not even thinking about opponents. You're thinking about belts you'd like to acquire.

• 1:46:32Joe Rogan?

  That's pretty cool, though. I mean, that's a beautiful place to be in.

• 1:46:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:46:36Joe Rogan?

  That's beautiful. But what about opponents? Is there any opponents, like, if you had, like, if no one could say no, and you were like, I'm gonna orchestrate my career, who would you like to fight?

• 1:46:48Speaker 03

  If it was no opponents,

• 1:46:52Speaker 03

  uh, I mean, and I was orchestrating, I'd probably...

• 1:46:57Joe Rogan?

  Because the fight that I would think that would generate the most amount of interest at one thirty-five would be Tank. Now, I know Tank's got some legal issues now, and I don't know what his status is currently. But when in terms of big names, Tank is the big name at thirty-five.

• 1:47:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, um, I would love for, for it to happen, but, um, the way that he went on, like, social media and kinda like bashed me in a way to where it was like he made it seem like I need, I need him. And, um, I just feel disrespected about it because at the end of the day, I'm a grown man. I make my own money. I'm living a spectacular life. I don't need nobody, so, um. If he feels though I need him and if it's that kinda stuff, then it's like, whatever. I don't, I'm not in need of that fight.

• 1:47:54Joe Rogan?

  The thing is, is like Tank had gotten a bunch of those high-profile fights. He KO'd Ryan. He's had some big, high-profile fights. He looked great. And so for him to say that, he's probably, you know, he's talking shit, obviously. But he's like looking at you as like you haven't had, before the Lopez fight, you haven't had that big breakout fight. But now you have. Now you have, and it was more spectacular than you, I mean, if you wanted to write out a perfect result on paper, against a world champion like Tiafimo, that would be the fight you would say.

• 1:48:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:48:28Joe Rogan?

  So that's, if I had to think of like a big fight for you, if I was the guy with the magic wand, that'd be the fight that I would set up.

• 1:48:36Speaker 03

  I would love to fight.

• 1:48:38Joe Rogan?

  That would be a big fight. Ooh, that would be a big fight, especially after you just beat Lopez, that'd be a big fight.

• 1:48:45Speaker 03

  I would love for the fight to happen.

• 1:48:47Joe Rogan?

  That might be the only big fight that I could think of, other than you going up. But forty-seven's, like you said, that's a, that's a big jump, man.

• 1:48:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm not, I, I'll make it though, I'll make it soon, soon, I mean, later than sooner, but.

• 1:49:01Joe Rogan?

  Do you think if you did that, you would want to prepare and put ma- mass on? Or would you just stay at the weight you are and just get accustomed to fighting bigger guys?

• 1:49:12Speaker 03

  Uh, if I was to go to forty-seven, I would wanna like, prepare, like, I would wanna s- s- do it slowly, I wouldn't wanna just jump to one forty-seven and, um.

• 1:49:24Joe Rogan?

  You would wanna put on weight, you think?

• 1:49:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, some type of weight, yep.

• 1:49:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:29Speaker 03

  Cause I'm little, like, I can't just jump the ring at the size that I am at a hundred and forty-seven pounds when I know guys is gonna be a lot bigger.

• 1:49:37Joe Rogan?

  Right, especially when you're talking about Ryan being one seventy, when he gets in the ring, he might even be bigger than that. And he was big and ripped in his last fight, he looked fucking great.

• 1:49:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, for sure.

• 1:49:47Joe Rogan?

  You know, but it's like,

• 1:49:52Joe Rogan?

  that's one of those things too, is if you do go up, going down gets real hard, going back, like if you go up.

• 1:50:00Speaker 03

  They always say that, I don't, I don't understand the, the reason with that.

• 1:50:04Joe Rogan?

  Cause your body gets accustomed to being bigger.

• 1:50:06Speaker 03

  For real?

• 1:50:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, and then, so if you put on mass, right, so if you put on muscle and you go up to like one forty-seven, and so you're walking around at one fifty-five, one sixty, something like that, you drop down to forty-seven. You've got more shoulder muscle, chest muscle, back muscle, leg muscle. If you stay at that weight and then you gotta cut down to thirty-five, you're gonna feel like shit. And the example that I always use is Roy. So when Roy Jones went up and fought John Ruiz and won the heavyweight title, then he went back down to light heavyweight, he never looked the same. Because he was two hundred pounds solid at a heavyweight.

• 1:50:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:50:44Joe Rogan?

  Ripped, like muscular two hundred pounds. For him to lose twenty-five pounds of weight and go back down to light heavyweight, that is fucking hard.

• 1:50:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, I get that, I get that. Um, I feel like when Roy did that, Roy was like...

• 1:51:03Speaker 03

  I, I think he must have been trying to set up a big heavyweight fight maybe, or was he just trying to just win a title?

• 1:51:09Joe Rogan?

  I mean, I think he was just trying to be like the only guy to go from middleweight to win the heavyweight title, which he did.

• 1:51:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't understand why he did that, cuz you're right, when he fought Tarver, it was like... I don't know what was happening, like, I didn't really think Tarver was as good as Roy, but Tarver beat Roy.

• 1:51:27Joe Rogan?

  Tarver's a bad motherfucker, though. Tarver's, Tarver's a very good fighter.

• 1:51:32Speaker 03

  But to beat Roy?

• 1:51:34Joe Rogan?

  I think Tarver in that fight, first of all, they had fought before, right? They had a real close decision loss, Tarver lost, and then Tarver got in his head at the beginning of the fight. So you got any excuses tonight, Roy?

• 1:51:47Speaker 03

  That was crazy.

• 1:51:48Joe Rogan?

  That was crazy. That was crazy. Like, to hear that, like, right when you're about to fight.

• 1:51:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:51:54Joe Rogan?

  Any questions for the champion? Any questions for the cha- got any excuses tonight, Roy?

• 1:51:57Speaker 03

  Man, oh my god, Roy, man, I don't know.

• 1:52:02Joe Rogan?

  That was one of the wildest things anybody's ever said.

• 1:52:04Speaker 03

  That would've turned me up, though. Like, if he would've said that to me, like, I'm trying to picture somebody saying that to me right before we fight, now I'm gonna want, I already wanna beat you bad.

• 1:52:14Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:52:14Speaker 03

  Now I'm gonna wanna beat you even better, like, then after the fight, I'm gonna get on the mic and, what did you say? Did you say something?

• 1:52:21Joe Rogan?

  But when he dropped Roy and knocked him out, I was like, oh my god, I can't believe it.

• 1:52:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:52:27Joe Rogan?

  But I was worried about him because I know what that does to people when they drop weight. And dropping down from two hundred pounds to one seventy-five will really wear your body out.

• 1:52:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, so you think it was more so the weight than the skills of Tarver?

• 1:52:42Joe Rogan?

  I would never say that, cuz I think Tarver has elite skills. I mean, Tarver's-

• 1:52:46Speaker 03

  Elite?

• 1:52:47Joe Rogan?

  I think he's elite. Oh, come on. I think Tarver's an elite fighter.

• 1:52:51Speaker 03

  Elite?

• 1:52:52Joe Rogan?

  You don't think he's elite?

• 1:52:53Speaker 03

  No, no.

• 1:52:54Joe Rogan?

  I mean, he's had-

• 1:52:55Speaker 03

  With all due respect to Tarver-

• 1:52:56Joe Rogan?

  Great performances and not as good performances, but I think in the performance against Roy, he looked elite.

• 1:53:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, he looked good that night, but-

• 1:53:04Joe Rogan?

  Cuz he, he rose to the occasion.

• 1:53:06Speaker 03

  I just don't know about elite, elite load.

• 1:53:09Joe Rogan?

  I get it.

• 1:53:09Speaker 03

  For me personally, I'm not the biggest Tarver fan, so.

• 1:53:13Joe Rogan?

  Okay, well, I defer to your championship knowledge. But, uh, I mean, in that fight, you can't say that he didn't look spectacular in that fight against Roy.

• 1:53:21Speaker 03

  Nah, he did, he did. He looked on point. He looked like he was the better fighter at that moment, but-

• 1:53:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, awkward, southpaw.

• 1:53:28Speaker 03

  When I watched the first fight, I thought Roy was a way better fighter than him. I thought Roy just stood on the ropes for way too long. I don't know why he did that.

• 1:53:36Joe Rogan?

  Hmm. Was the first fight before or after he fought Ruiz?

• 1:53:44Speaker 03

  Um, it was after.

• 1:53:47Joe Rogan?

  Was it after? The first fight they had to? That probably wore his ass out too. I think, I just think, once you go all the way up like that, you should probably stay there.

• 1:53:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:53:56Joe Rogan?

  And I don't know how he went up. I don't wanna, you know, it's hard for a guy in his 30s to put on that kinda muscle.

• 1:54:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:54:04Joe Rogan?

  And generally, you have some help.

• 1:54:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:54:08Joe Rogan?

  So, generally, some Mexican supplements involved. And so, the problem is-

• 1:54:13Speaker 03

  He took Oyster.

• 1:54:16Joe Rogan?

  Once you have taken that stuff and then you stop taking it because you wanna go back to your normal weight, your whole endocrine system gets fucked up. This is the problem with juicers. Guys who take juice, the thing that happens is-

• 1:54:30Speaker 03

  Man, don't tell me this whole, uh, no.

• 1:54:32Joe Rogan?

  Listen, I'm not saying this about Roy.

• 1:54:33Speaker 03

  Okay, okay, okay, okay. We good, dude.

• 1:54:35Joe Rogan?

  We just talk in general.

• 1:54:37Speaker 03

  We good.

• 1:54:38Joe Rogan?

  Fighters that gain weight and, and have lean muscle and put on that kinda mass.

• 1:54:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:54:44Joe Rogan?

  Generally, they're doing it with some kinda supplement. Some kinda, either steroids or something that juices up your endocrine system, whether it is, uh, peptides. Yes.

• 1:54:56Speaker 03

  Damn, I never heard of this.

• 1:54:57Joe Rogan?

  You didn't know?

• 1:54:58Speaker 03

  Nah.

• 1:54:59Joe Rogan?

  What, come on, man. You don't, for real?

• 1:55:01Speaker 03

  Nah, I didn't know.

• 1:55:02Joe Rogan?

  Oh, come on, there's a lot of fighters that took stuff.

• 1:55:04Speaker 03

  Oh, I know, no, I know that.

• 1:55:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:05Speaker 03

  I know that people is cheating.

• 1:55:08Joe Rogan?

  Oh, well, in the older days, before they were testing?

• 1:55:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:55:11Joe Rogan?

  Oh, come on, man. Like, in the nineties, uh, uh, who knows how many guys were on steroids?

• 1:55:16Speaker 03

  Damn, that take away the, the credit of them guys, cuz I feel like when I watched them guys, they was the truth now.

• 1:55:23Joe Rogan?

  They are the truth, but I don't think, I think, well, here, let me, let me use what I know for an example. In MMA, MMA is a better example.

• 1:55:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:55:33Joe Rogan?

  Because in MMA, fucking for sure, I could tell you one hundred percent, people were juicing. One hundred percent, cuz I knew guys who were juicing.

• 1:55:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:55:42Joe Rogan?

  They would tell me what they were on.

• 1:55:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:55:44Joe Rogan?

  Everybody was juicing. So then, they started implementing, um, the, so then the UFC starts getting sanctioned by athletic commissions, and they test day of the fight.

• 1:55:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:55:55Joe Rogan?

  The day of the fight test is an intelligence test. It's not a steroids test. It's like, were you intelligent enough to cycle off right before the fight with the right kind of steroids so that on the way in day, when you get tested, you don't test positive?

• 1:56:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:56:10Joe Rogan?

  That's all it is. In a lot of these camps, like, big MMA camps, they have scientists working in the camps.

• 1:56:17Speaker 03

  That's helping them cheat.

• 1:56:18Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Now, not so much anymore.

• 1:56:23Speaker 03

  This is scary.

• 1:56:24Joe Rogan?

  The UFC, it is scary. But the thing is, everybody was doing it. And then on top of that, you had an organization like Pride. Now, I don't know if you're aware of Pride, but Pride was the big organization in Japan. I mean, they were selling out ninety thousand seat arenas in Japan for these promotions. They were fucking huge.

• 1:56:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:56:45Joe Rogan?

  And everyone was juiced to the tits. I don't know if everybody was, but a lot. I don't think Rampage was. Rampage told me he never took steroids, and I believe him. But a lot of guys were juiced up.

• 1:56:56Speaker 03

  Damn.

• 1:56:57Joe Rogan?

  And I know for a fact they were juiced up, cuz they told me. They told me. And they also told me, like, Ensign Inoue, who fought for Pride, told me that on his contract. Yeah, Ensign Inoue?

• 1:57:08Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 1:57:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, like not the like not related, but same last name. Ensign, he was a great fighter, a pioneer in MMA. Ensign told me that on his pride contract, it said in all capital letters, we do not test for steroids. Like they incur, I had a friend of mine in Japan, they encouraged him to take steroids.

• 1:57:29Speaker 03

  See, this this scared me because I gotta get in a boxing ring and I know that people be cheating.

• 1:57:35Joe Rogan?

  Some people cheat.

• 1:57:36Speaker 03

  I know it's be like low level fighters that you'll go there and you'll be like, why do this guy punch way harder than? A lot of people like.

• 1:57:46Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:57:47Speaker 03

  I don't understand it and it's like, I don't.

• 1:57:49Joe Rogan?

  Well, there's a few fighters in MMA that when steroids started being tested for their their body shrunk. And then their power went away. Like there was guys that were knocking everybody out and then also they couldn't knock anybody out. It's crazy. I mean, there's so many stories in MMA where you see fighters physiques just deflate like. Like they they're a balloon that got air let out of it.

• 1:58:12Speaker 03

  I feel like I seen in boxing though, I see guys, they kind of like get caught with steroids.

• 1:58:17Joe Rogan?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:58:18Speaker 03

  And then they have a fight after that and it's like.

• 1:58:20Joe Rogan?

  They look like shit.

• 1:58:21Speaker 03

  Where did the power go? You lost all of your power?

• 1:58:24Joe Rogan?

  That's a fact. That's a fact.

• 1:58:26Speaker 03

  I get it.

• 1:58:27Joe Rogan?

  That does happen. And then there's also ways that we can't figure out what they're doing yet. I mean, this has happened all throughout sports, right? This was the whole thing with Barry Bonds and the ball go scandal in baseball. They had developed a steroid called the clear. And what the clear was was a steroid that was undetectable. They hadn't figured it, but eventually they got caught. And so who knows what kind of shit, it's not like they stopped trying to innovate and come up with ways to get an advantage. There's definitely people doing it now, but the way the UFC works now. The first they brought in USADA, now they have a company called Drug Free Sport that does the same thing. And they just show up and test you.

• 1:59:08Joe Rogan?

  You don't get a notification, it's gonna happen next Tuesday, so you can take a bunch of shit that clears it out of your system. So they just show up, knock on your door, hey, it's time for a test. And then you gotta give them. That's how they should do it.

• 1:59:21Speaker 03

  Vada do the same thing, they just show up and.

• 1:59:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's how they should do it.

• 1:59:24Speaker 03

  Urine and blood and just anytime. Actually, my last camp, they tested me like. Four or five times.

• 1:59:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:33Speaker 03

  God damn.

• 1:59:33Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's the only way to know. You gotta show up randomly and and test guys. That's the only way to know.

• 1:59:39Speaker 03

  I'm cool with it though, cuz I ain't never ever really did anything when it come to cheating, so I'm.

• 1:59:45Joe Rogan?

  But if you go, and this is again, not casting any disparaging remarks about Roy, who's one of the greatest of all time. But if you went back to the Ruiz fight, do you think they were testing him? I fucking doubt it. I fucking doubt it. There was no vada testing back then.

• 1:59:58Speaker 03

  But then Usada was in boxing?

• 2:00:01Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:00:02Speaker 03

  No?

• 2:00:03Joe Rogan?

  I don't think so. No, no.

• 2:00:04Speaker 03

  I could've sworn he was in boxing.

• 2:00:06Joe Rogan?

  Okay, let's find out. Was the Roy Jones, John Ruiz junior fight, did they utilize vada testing? I don't think they did.

• 2:00:15Speaker 03

  Usada.

• 2:00:15Joe Rogan?

  Usada?

• 2:00:16Speaker 03

  Usada.

• 2:00:17Joe Rogan?

  Okay, Usada. I don't think they did. Um, I don't think, I don't think that, look, that was always a thing about Manny. Like, people always said that about Manny.

• 2:00:27Speaker 03

  I heard that too.

• 2:00:28Joe Rogan?

  Right?

• 2:00:28Speaker 03

  Only reason why it was believable though, cuz I never.

• 2:00:31Joe Rogan?

  He went up eight weight classes.

• 2:00:32Speaker 03

  I've never seen that in my life.

• 2:00:34Joe Rogan?

  And kept the knockout power.

• 2:00:35Speaker 03

  I've never seen that in my life.

• 2:00:37Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:00:38Speaker 03

  I never in the history of the sport, you go from one, what, 109 or?

• 2:00:43Joe Rogan?

  Whatever he started at.

• 2:00:44Speaker 03

  To 154 and you just knocking guys out?

• 2:00:47Joe Rogan?

  I know.

• 2:00:48Speaker 03

  That's crazy.

• 2:00:49Joe Rogan?

  And his physique, you know? I mean, he looks fantastic at every, at every step of the way. And he also had that dude.

• 2:00:58Joe Rogan?

  Uh, what'd it say? Was not held under a modern UFC-style Usada program. There's no record of being part of any independent year-round Usada vada scheme like we see today.

• 2:01:09Speaker 03

  So they just depended on the athletic commission?

• 2:01:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but again, the athletic commission.

• 2:01:14Speaker 03

  It's just fight day.

• 2:01:15Joe Rogan?

  It's an intelligence test.

• 2:01:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:01:17Joe Rogan?

  I mean, I will show you, show him, um, Alistair Overeem when he fought Brock Lesnar, like, at the weigh-in. Now, Alistair Overeem is the greatest example in MMA of a guy who, when he was on the Juice, he was unstoppable. Unstoppable. They called him Uberim when he was unstoppable because he looked like a comic book. superhero. He was so jacked and then when they started doing USADA testing, he looked completely different. I mean completely different.

• 2:01:48Speaker 03

  Nah, he did.

• 2:01:49Joe Rogan?

  He got softer. He still looked good, but he didn't look like Uberim. When he, there's a, an image of him flexing on the scale, like look at him, right there. Come on, son. I mean, come on, look at that girl, look at Ariani's face when she's looking at his back, she's like, what the fuck? And that was, uh, I mean, come on, man. He was a fucking monster.

• 2:02:14Speaker 03

  Knocking guys out?

• 2:02:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he was destroying everybody. He was destroying everybody. When he was juiced up. And he started his career as a light heavyweight. So he started his career as a 205 pound guy who's thin and skinny.

• 2:02:27Speaker 03

  That's light heavyweight?

• 2:02:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's light heavyweight. The UFC's weight classes are all fucked up. Like, well, I know it's stupid. They have the same names, but different weight classes. So like welterweight is 170 in the UFC. Yeah, look at him. So that's the difference between how he was when he was juicing versus how he was. You see the difference? It's crazy, right? Isn't it crazy? It's crazy.

• 2:02:49Speaker 03

  Damn.

• 2:02:50Joe Rogan?

  So the guy on the right was just, he had to move more. He was still very skillful. He was a very skillful kickboxer. Very skillful MMA fighter. But, I mean, when that guy was fully jacked up and juiced, man, he was almost unstoppable.

• 2:03:05Speaker 03

  See, that's why, man, that's why I don't like that. Like, that's my thing. I do not want to get in the ring with somebody that's cheating, like, I feel like that's... But I'm so good to where it's like, even if you are cheating, you ain't gonna hit me. You won't be punching on me.

• 2:03:25Joe Rogan?

  Imagine if you're fighting a guy that's at your level, but he's cheating.

• 2:03:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:03:30Joe Rogan?

  That's the problem.

• 2:03:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:03:31Joe Rogan?

  That's the problem. Right now, there's not really anybody in your division that's at that level that's like really compelling. I mean, other than at 135 tank, but imagine if there's someone that's at your level and you're pretty sure they're cheating. That's gotta fuck with your head.

• 2:03:46Speaker 03

  Honestly, I feel like it's some competitive guys at um at these weight classes. They just not know.

• 2:03:53Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:03:53Speaker 03

  But it's some names that's like, okay, like um even Lamont Roach.

• 2:03:57Joe Rogan?

  Lamont, Lamont Roach is very good. That fight with Gervonta was crazy because that was a knockdown. That's a fucking knockdown.

• 2:04:05Speaker 03

  He won, he won for sure.

• 2:04:06Joe Rogan?

  The, the, the fact that he took a knee and the referee didn't call it a knockdown, that's crazy.

• 2:04:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, he won. But to say like, I'm just saying, it is guys out there for me.

• 2:04:17Joe Rogan?

  Lamont is a great example.

• 2:04:19Speaker 03

  Will be big fights and competitive fights and um I don't spar Lamont, so I know Lamont is a.

• 2:04:23Joe Rogan?

  He's legit.

• 2:04:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:04:25Joe Rogan?

  I mean, a, a lot of people did not know about him before that fight, but after that fight, I mean, look, that sucks, man, because that goes down on his record as a loss and that's cr- was it a draw?

• 2:04:35Speaker 03

  Draw.

• 2:04:35Joe Rogan?

  Draw, that's right, it was a draw. And he won the fight?

• 2:04:39Speaker 03

  He clearly won.

• 2:04:39Joe Rogan?

  He won the fight?

• 2:04:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:04:41Joe Rogan?

  I thought he won the fight anyway.

• 2:04:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, I did too.

• 2:04:43Joe Rogan?

  But the knockdown, like, you can't say I got shit in my hair and it got in my eyes and that's why I went down. That's crazy.

• 2:04:50Speaker 03

  That was very amateurish.

• 2:04:52Joe Rogan?

  It was weird, right?

• 2:04:53Speaker 03

  It was amateurish. I, I didn't.

• 2:04:55Joe Rogan?

  It was weird.

• 2:04:55Speaker 03

  I never stood on nothing like that.

• 2:04:57Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's like Gervonta just looked like his head wasn't totally there in that fight.

• 2:05:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, maybe.

• 2:05:04Joe Rogan?

  So do you require VADA testing for all your fights and do you have that ability to do that?

• 2:05:09Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:05:10Joe Rogan?

  So in negotiations, you make sure that everybody's getting tested?

• 2:05:13Speaker 03

  When it come down to.

• 2:05:14Joe Rogan?

  Good for you.

• 2:05:15Speaker 03

  I do not play that.

• 2:05:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, good for you, man. Good for you. I mean, it's, we're very fortunate that we have these testing bodies like that now, available.

• 2:05:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:05:24Joe Rogan?

  Because again, like if they had, who knows what a lot of fighters' legacies would be if they were testing them at every step along the way.

• 2:05:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, they'd get caught.

• 2:05:34Joe Rogan?

  They'd get caught.

• 2:05:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:05:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. So with MMA, it was the Wild West for a long time, for a long time. It was the Wild, Wild West. Everybody was doing all kinds of shit.

• 2:05:44Speaker 03

  I wouldn't be able to do that. Like, I would not be able to get in the ring, lose to somebody and then know they cheated me.

• 2:05:51Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:05:52Speaker 03

  Because I don't, I don't know how I would react to that. Like, that would be like one of the moments I may crash out and I don't do crash out things. So I might crash out about like. Ain't no way you just cheated me, bro.

• 2:06:05Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:06:05Speaker 03

  Ain't no way you just cheated me, bro.

• 2:06:07Joe Rogan?

  Well, the thing is that with combat sports versus every other sport is your goal is to hurt your opponent.

• 2:06:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:06:14Joe Rogan?

  And if there is a thing you're doing that's cheating that helps you hurt your opponent, that is a different kind of cheating.

• 2:06:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:06:21Joe Rogan?

  It's not like cheating in baseball. Like, who gives a fuck if you hit another homerun? I think they should all cheat in baseball. I think they should all get on steroids. Make it more exciting. Like, because the only thing that's exciting about baseball is home runs, right?

• 2:06:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, I get you.

• 2:06:34Joe Rogan?

  That's the number one thing. If you got a way that you guys can hit more home runs, fucking give it to them. What are you, stupid?

• 2:06:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's like harmless. Like, it's not really gonna hurt nobody.

• 2:06:45Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 2:06:45Speaker 03

  So, I get it.

• 2:06:46Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 2:06:46Speaker 03

  But, and boxing is like...

• 2:06:48Joe Rogan?

  It's life or death.

• 2:06:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:06:49Joe Rogan?

  Boxing is real life or death.

• 2:06:51Speaker 03

  That's why I don't know how, like, I would react. Don't cheat. Anybody watching this, please don't cheat me. I am not the guy to be cheated, so just understand it.

• 2:07:01Joe Rogan?

  Well, I mean, whenever people are looking for shortcuts and people want to win, there's always gonna be someone that's willing to do something that they're not supposed to be doing.

• 2:07:11Speaker 03

  That ain't it, though. Like, this, like you said, is life or death, like...

• 2:07:15Joe Rogan?

  Life or death.

• 2:07:15Speaker 03

  So, you could cheat and hit somebody with the wrong shot and then they dead. What's the guy that killed somebody? Uh, Sabriel Matias.

• 2:07:23Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:07:24Speaker 03

  He, um, killed the dude, and now he just got popped for cheating, so it's like...

• 2:07:28Joe Rogan?

  Oh, he did?

• 2:07:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:07:30Joe Rogan?

  I didn't know that. What did he get popped for?

• 2:07:32Speaker 03

  I, I don't even know.

• 2:07:33Joe Rogan?

  Well, he lost recently, right?

• 2:07:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, right before the loss, they had popped him for cheating, I wanna say.

• 2:07:37Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 2:07:38Speaker 03

  Dalton Smith.

• 2:07:40Joe Rogan?

  So, they, he lost, so he, he got popped and then he lost the next fight?

• 2:07:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, they let him fight.

• 2:07:47Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:07:48Speaker 03

  Yeah. But it's like...

• 2:07:50Joe Rogan?

  I wonder if he's the same guy after he got popped.

• 2:07:53Speaker 03

  That's what I was saying, too. I don't know either, but...

• 2:07:56Joe Rogan?

  Because he was killing everybody. I mean, he was not...

• 2:07:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, he actually...

• 2:07:59Joe Rogan?

  Only killed one guy, but he was...

• 2:08:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, but he actually killed somebody, but if I'm the family of somebody that he killed and now he comes out as cheating, I will be like, hold up now, bro, like...

• 2:08:09Joe Rogan?

  Can you see what Matias got popped for? Um, that's crazy. He was, who's the dude who just beat him? Dude just stopped him? Yes.

• 2:08:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:08:19Joe Rogan?

  That was a crazy fight.

• 2:08:20Speaker 03

  That was crazy. They were going, they were going to war.

• 2:08:22Joe Rogan?

  They went to war. I mean, that was not an easy fight for him. And Matthias is a dangerous dude, man.

• 2:08:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, that was a great performance by Dalton Smith though.

• 2:08:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:31Speaker 03

  People don't know back in the day, when I was in the, um, Junior Worlds, me and him went to the Worlds together.

• 2:08:37Joe Rogan?

  So Ostarine.

• 2:08:38Speaker 03

  Damn.

• 2:08:39Joe Rogan?

  Everybody's on Ostarine. What is it about, I, I don't even know much about Ostarine. What does Ostarine do, Jamie? Let's find out what it does. Ostarine, uh, selective androgen receptor modulator designed to treat muscle wasting conditions and osteoporosis by promoting muscle growth and bone density without the severe side effects of anabolic steroids. Popular amongst bodybuilders for enhancing muscle mass and fat loss. It's not approved for human consumption by the FDA, banned by VADA, and linked to side effects like liver toxicity, testosterone suppression, and cardiovascular risks. So, it helps you keep muscle and bone density.

• 2:09:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, makes, it sense, makes sense that that would be a good supplement for boxers. What are you showing me here? Before or after? Look at that guy. The one you got your link on? Jesus. Well, he looks like he's faking it in the third picture.

• 2:09:44Joe Rogan?

  But, I mean, you're always going to have certain people that are gonna cheat.

• 2:09:50Speaker 03

  I hate it.

• 2:09:50Joe Rogan?

  Are there any, like, world title fights that take place that don't have VADA testing?

• 2:09:56Speaker 03

  Uh, yeah, I think it is. I think people, um, fight without it, but I, I don't, I don't play that.

• 2:10:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:10:02Speaker 03

  I don't play that. I be thinking, man, I just spotted the dude in the gym that was like not good one time, like, he's not good at all. But I'm sparring him, like, man, this dude punch harder than everybody I ever been in the ring with. And I wonder, like, dude, did that dude, do he be cheating?

• 2:10:20Joe Rogan?

  Well, some dudes just have natural god given power too.

• 2:10:23Speaker 03

  But when you like fat, not kinda like you out of shape, then you just punch super hard and it's slow, but it's like boom, boom. I be thinking people be gee.

• 2:10:35Joe Rogan?

  They might be, but they might just have the gift.

• 2:10:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's true.

• 2:10:39Joe Rogan?

  The thing about boxing is punching power, you can enhance your punching power, but that crazy punching power, that's a gift.

• 2:10:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, you're born with it.

• 2:10:48Joe Rogan?

  Like Ernie Shavers type punching power, or Deontay.

• 2:10:52Speaker 03

  Wilder.

• 2:10:53Joe Rogan?

  Wilder, the greatest example ever.

• 2:10:55Speaker 03

  Oh, my god.

• 2:10:56Joe Rogan?

  One shot with Teddy Atlas is the best example. He called it the eraser. All the mistakes you made, it doesn't matter.

• 2:11:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, cuz I sit there and watch Wilder and I'm like, dog, it's some fights that I see him not punch at all until the shot is there.

• 2:11:11Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:11:12Speaker 03

  And when the shot is there, he got you, it's over.

• 2:11:15Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy how hard he hits.

• 2:11:17Speaker 03

  It's over.

• 2:11:17Joe Rogan?

  I mean, he might be the greatest one punch knockout artist in the history of the heavyweight division.

• 2:11:21Speaker 03

  I think he is. I think he is like no question. Like, he is probably the hardest puncher that ever boxed.

• 2:11:28Joe Rogan?

  He's up there. I mean, Ernie Shavers back in the day.

• 2:11:31Speaker 03

  Punch harder than Wilder?

• 2:11:32Joe Rogan?

  Wow, they all said Ernie Shavers was the, like, even Ali said, nobody hit harder than Ernie Shavers.

• 2:11:37Speaker 03

  Wilder.

• 2:11:38Joe Rogan?

  I know, I know.

• 2:11:40Speaker 03

  Nah, I don't think so.

• 2:11:41Joe Rogan?

  And the thing about Wilder too is he's not big. He only weighed 209 when he fought Tyson Fury the first time.

• 2:11:46Speaker 03

  That right hand he got, I don't think nobody could take it.

• 2:11:50Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy.

• 2:11:51Speaker 03

  I don't think nobody could take it, I'm not gonna lie. I saw Fury take it, but.

• 2:11:55Joe Rogan?

  You know what he's like? He's like a giant Tommy Hearns.

• 2:11:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:11:58Joe Rogan?

  That's what it's like. Long, leverage, just torque, the width of the shoulders, the snap of the punch, just blop.

• 2:12:06Speaker 03

  I wish he retired though, like, I feel like he, what else is there to do? Like, you done did a lot in this sport, you done made a lot of money. I just wish like certain guys just like, okay.

• 2:12:17Joe Rogan?

  I know, I know.

• 2:12:19Speaker 03

  What am I doing this for now?

• 2:12:21Joe Rogan?

  Well, he's gonna fight Derrick Jisora, which is interesting, cuz they're both the same age, they're both, they both have 55, they're both kind of in the same, but, you know.

• 2:12:30Speaker 03

  I like Derrick Jisora, he a cool dude too.

• 2:12:33Joe Rogan?

  He seems cool, yeah. I mean, it's a great time for boxing. There's a lot of talent, a lot of very, very compelling matchups. Are they gonna do a Beval, uh, Betterbeev rematch? Are they gonna do a trilogy?

• 2:12:46Speaker 03

  I wanna see Beval versus Benavides.

• 2:12:48Joe Rogan?

  Ooh.

• 2:12:49Speaker 03

  That's the fight, like, I don't.

• 2:12:51Joe Rogan?

  Well, the fight was Benavides versus Canelo. Well, that, that never could get made for some reason.

• 2:12:57Speaker 03

  I mean, that dude is just too big for Canelo though, like, I, I'm not, I see both sides. Like, I, I, I love Benavides and I'm a fan of him. So I see the side of like, like, fight me, bro, you the, you the guy, I'm the guy, we number one, number one, let's fight. But then I see Canelo's side, he's like, man, this dude is two hundred pounds on the regular.

• 2:13:20Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:13:20Speaker 03

  And I'm nowhere near that weight, so it's like, why would I fight this guy, like, I don't think it's fair, like, that's how he feel, so.

• 2:13:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I understand it, but Canelo went up and fought Bival.

• 2:13:33Speaker 03

  But he knew. He didn't, he didn't, he didn't think Bival was gonna beat him.

• 2:13:38Joe Rogan?

  You don't think so?

• 2:13:39Speaker 03

  Nah.

• 2:13:39Joe Rogan?

  Well.

• 2:13:40Speaker 03

  He didn't think, he thought he was gonna beat Bival.

• 2:13:42Joe Rogan?

  After Bival beat him, you think that killed the can, the chances?

• 2:13:45Speaker 03

  Yes, he knew, like, it's time, like, I cannot fight these guys that's super big and...

• 2:13:50Joe Rogan?

  I love watching Benavides fight.

• 2:13:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's the truth.

• 2:13:52Joe Rogan?

  He's a mauler.

• 2:13:53Speaker 03

  He's a killer.

• 2:13:54Joe Rogan?

  He is a fucking killer.

• 2:13:55Speaker 03

  He did something to help my hands, um, he told me to put on the gloves that I be wearing on fight night. And, um, they helped my hands, so I appreciate him too.

• 2:14:02Joe Rogan?

  Do you do anything to strengthen your hands?

• 2:14:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:14:05Joe Rogan?

  Do you do, like, exercises to?

• 2:14:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's a, uh, I can't tell everybody. I can't tell everybody.

• 2:14:10Joe Rogan?

  Alright, tell me later.

• 2:14:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'll tell you later.

• 2:14:13Joe Rogan?

  There's a, there's a bunch of different things people do, like, uh, buckets of rice is a big one.

• 2:14:18Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, for sure, I do that too.

• 2:14:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, moving your hands around buckets, what is it, Benavides targets to beat you, Bival. Oh, there we go.

• 2:14:26Speaker 03

  That's the fight.

• 2:14:26Joe Rogan?

  That's the fight.

• 2:14:27Speaker 03

  That's the best versus the best, I think that's one of the best fights to make in the sport of boxing.

• 2:14:31Joe Rogan?

  Well, he's fighting Ramirez at cruiserweight, right?

• 2:14:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:14:34Joe Rogan?

  And then he's gonna drop back down to light heavyweight and fight Bival, I like that, yeah. I wanna make the biggest and the best fights happening, fuck yeah.

• 2:14:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's one of the best fights in the sport.

• 2:14:45Joe Rogan?

  Arthur Betterbev, but Betterbev is like forty now.

• 2:14:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's the truth though, too.

• 2:14:49Joe Rogan?

  Oh, he's the truth, he was a crusher forever.

• 2:14:53Speaker 03

  He punched too hard.

• 2:14:54Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my God.

• 2:14:55Speaker 03

  He another one.

• 2:14:56Joe Rogan?

  He just bangs dudes out. He's got a crazy style.

• 2:15:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:15:01Joe Rogan?

  I mean, it's funny when people sparred him, they have these, these stories.

• 2:15:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:15:05Joe Rogan?

  Like he hits you and you're like, what just happened?

• 2:15:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, I could see it though. When I watched him fight Bovall, I'm in front row.

• 2:15:12Joe Rogan?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:15:13Speaker 03

  And like Bovall like to catch shots on his glove and like, I could see like how hard he was punching his glove like.

• 2:15:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:20Speaker 03

  Damn. I don't know how Bovall is taking that.

• 2:15:23Joe Rogan?

  I know, and he was thirty nine back then.

• 2:15:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:15:26Joe Rogan?

  That's what's crazy. It's like, we missed his prime.

• 2:15:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:15:30Joe Rogan?

  Unfortunately.

• 2:15:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, we seen one fight where he fought the, um, the overseas, uh, Gavah, something. And he beat, he beat him up. Oh, my God. He beat him up.

• 2:15:42Joe Rogan?

  Well, he was at one point in time, wasn't he like thirty nine and oh with thirty nine knockouts? Which is just nuts.

• 2:15:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:15:49Joe Rogan?

  At that level, that is just nuts. It's just nuts that he stopped everybody.

• 2:15:54Speaker 03

  And it looks natural too. It don't look like he's on like steroids.

• 2:15:58Joe Rogan?

  No, no, it looks natural.

• 2:15:59Speaker 03

  Very natural.

• 2:16:00Joe Rogan?

  But didn't he get caught with something?

• 2:16:03Speaker 03

  He got caught with something?

• 2:16:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, put that better be of, um.

• 2:16:07Speaker 03

  Not better be of, man.

• 2:16:09Joe Rogan?

  I feel like, I might be wrong. But I feel like maybe there was a tainted supplement.

• 2:16:19Speaker 03

  Man, come on, not better be.

• 2:16:21Joe Rogan?

  I think so. I might be wrong.

• 2:16:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, you gotta.

• 2:16:25Joe Rogan?

  If I'm wrong, I apologize.

• 2:16:25Speaker 03

  You gotta be wrong for better be.

• 2:16:27Joe Rogan?

  This was twenty twenty four, is that? Atypical. Yeah, this is what it was. Atypical drug test result. Adverse findings may have threatened. Now, what does that mean? What does it say? Look at Conor McGregor. Look at Conor McGregor screaming and yelling. Uh, what does it say? What did he get caught with? Um, atypical finding is not a violation requires more testing. Better be have underwent those examinations at Vada request. Vada reported negative results from the follow up test. So what was the positive test?

• 2:17:00Joe Rogan?

  Hmm. What does that mean?

• 2:17:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, what do that mean?

• 2:17:04Joe Rogan?

  Oh, here it goes. He received atypical findings for human growth hormone. And five D androstanadiol. Both occur naturally in the body. When an atypical finding is received, further testing is required to determine if an athlete naturally produces the substance in his bo- his or her body at a greater level than the average or elevated levels, which were signs of anti-doping. Interesting. Okay. So it could just be that he just has naturally high levels of HGH and this five D androstanadiol. So that might be what it is. Or.

• 2:17:45Speaker 03

  He was cheating.

• 2:17:46Joe Rogan?

  Could be some sneaky shit. You know? I mean. Did you ever see the documentary Icarus? There's a great documentary about, uh, the the drug scandal in the Olympics in Russia. And so this was, what was this, two thousand sixteen? Which was it, Jamie?

• 2:18:09Speaker 03

  Was that the Olympics I was at? Yeah. I was there.

• 2:18:12Joe Rogan?

  What, uh?

• 2:18:13Speaker 03

  And they banned the whole Russian team?

• 2:18:15Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 2:18:15Speaker 03

  I thought that was twenty twenty, though.

• 2:18:17Joe Rogan?

  Um, they banned the Russian team in the follow-up Olympics, I believe. Because of the twenty sixteen. So this guy, Brian Fogel, did this documentary. It's a crazy documentary. And the documentary was not supposed to be

• 2:18:30Joe Rogan?

  twenty fourteen Winter Olympics. So what happened was Brian Fogel was doing a documentary. So he, he was a, he's a cyclist and a documentary guy. And so he said, I want to do a, um, a cycling event, a race, completely natural. And then I want to do it on steroids and I want to document it all. And then, you know, make this documentary on what is the difference and just show because cycling is a very dirty sport.

• 2:18:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:18:57Joe Rogan?

  Like Tour de France. Those guys, they put engines in their fucking bike to make it like easier to pedal. They do a lot of crazy shit. Blood doping. So he does this naturally and then he gets this guy. Um, uh, what was his name again?

• 2:19:14Joe Rogan?

  Greg Gregory Rychenko, who was Rychenko, who was the head of the Russian anti doping federate, but it was really a doping federation.

• 2:19:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:19:23Joe Rogan?

  So what they were doing at the time was, so he starts working with this guy, this guy's telling him what steroids to take and how to get better. At the same time, the Russians get caught, like while he's filming all this, and that guy has to leave the country, and that guy spills the beans.

• 2:19:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:19:42Joe Rogan?

  And he tells them exactly what they did, and what they did was, they took the clean urine, they made a hole in the wall, so the place where they stored all the urine, they made a hole in the wall where they could swap out the Russian urine and swap it in for for good urine. And they found these micro abrasions on these supposedly unopenable jars.

• 2:20:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:20:04Joe Rogan?

  And so when they looked at it with a microscope, they said these, they figured out a way to open these jars, so they would pass it through the hole in the wall, open the jar, empty it out, put in clean piss, and give it back to them. So essentially, the entire team was doped up.

• 2:20:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, so basically, that's why they say in the Olympics, they wasn't sure if Russia was gonna be able to compete, right?

• 2:20:27Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. And so in Brazil, the follow up Olympics, the next Olympics, the entire team couldn't compete.

• 2:20:35Speaker 03

  The cycling team?

• 2:20:36Joe Rogan?

  No, the entire Russian team, all the, so the cycling thing was just this guy that was doing this documentary, and he was using the head of the Russian anti doping agency to help him do it. Pub, like openly, so it was just for a documentary, it wasn't like trying to win a race and cheat. He was like saying, let's see what you would give me and how much better my performance would be.

• 2:20:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:20:57Joe Rogan?

  So in the middle of doing all this, this scandal gets exposed.

• 2:21:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:21:01Joe Rogan?

  And this guy who he's using is at the head of the scandal.

• 2:21:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:21:04Joe Rogan?

  And then this guy tells him everything.

• 2:21:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:21:07Joe Rogan?

  And it's nuts.

• 2:21:08Speaker 03

  Russia did compete in Olympic stuff.

• 2:21:10Joe Rogan?

  They did compete in two thousand and sixteen.

• 2:21:13Speaker 03

  They must have didn't compete in twenty twenty then.

• 2:21:15Joe Rogan?

  Well, it was one of the, I think they allowed individual athletes to compete, whatever the subsequent Olympics was, but they didn't allow them to represent Russia.

• 2:21:25Speaker 03

  Okay, yeah, cuz it was a guy from Russia in my weight class.

• 2:21:30Joe Rogan?

  Oh yeah?

• 2:21:30Speaker 03

  In the 2016 Olympics. He definitely was kinda strong too.

• 2:21:36Joe Rogan?

  Well, Russians, I mean, they were, they were the beginning of all this stuff. Like the Eastern European women, weightlifting.

• 2:21:44Speaker 03

  So they came up with the cheats.

• 2:21:46Joe Rogan?

  Well, they figured it out. They figured it out early on. They've been doing it a long ass time. So, who knows? With Better Bev or any of these guys. It's, you've gotta always assume that without something like Vada or Drug Free Sport or Usada, there's always gonna be someone who's trying to figure out a way to get a competitive advantage.

• 2:22:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, I hate it.

• 2:22:12Joe Rogan?

  It's gross.

• 2:22:13Speaker 03

  Hate it. It comes with it though.

• 2:22:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it comes with it. It is what it is. So, um, anything else you wanna cover before we wrap this up?

• 2:22:22Speaker 03

  Nah, I ain't got nothing else. I think we're good.

• 2:22:24Joe Rogan?

  Listen, man, congratulations on everything. It's been beautiful to watch you fight. I'm a giant fan. And I'm, I'm happy to see after the Lopez fight, you get all the respect and the credit that you deserve and, and I can't wait to see what happens next.

• 2:22:37Speaker 03

  Thank you. I appreciate you and I appreciate you giving me the opportunity to come on the podcast.

• 2:22:43Speaker 03

  It's one of the best podcasts in the world.

• 2:22:46Joe Rogan?

  Thanks very much. My honor. Alright, bye.

• 2:23:03Joe Rogan?

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