Episode 357 - The Montauk Project

What’s stranger than Stranger Things? The story that inspired the show — an alleged government program called the Montauk Project. This week, we’re putting on our tinfoil hats and diving into the conspiracy that claims a quiet Long Island military base was the site of secret experiments involving psychics, mind control, time travel, and something that may have torn a hole in reality itself. Between whispered cover-ups, chilling testimonies, and a mysterious radar tower that still looms over the landscape, this story feels like sci-fi. Was the Montauk Project a real extension of documented government experiments, or did one story spiral into a full-blown paranormal legend complete with monsters and memory wipes? Watch the video version here. Have ghost stories of your own? E-mail them to us at [email protected] New Episodes are released every Thursday and Sunday at 12am PST/3am EST (the witching hour, of course). Corinne and Sabrina hand select a couple of paranormal encounters from our inbox to read in each episode, from demons, to cryptids, to aliens, to creepy kids... the list goes on and on. If you have a story of your own that you'd like us to share on an upcoming episode, we invite you to email them to us! If you enjoy our show, please consider joining our Patreon, rating and reviewing on iTunes & Spotify and following us on social media! Youtube, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and Discord. Edited by Jaimi Ryan and produced by Emma Leventer and Jaimi Ryan, original music by Arms Akimbo! Disclaimer: the use of white sage and smudging is a closed practice. If you’re looking to cleanse your space, here are some great alternatives! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

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• 0:05Corinne Vien?

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• 0:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

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• 0:47Corinne Vien?

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• 1:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Receive $300 off Prenuvo whole body scans and executive and comprehensive memberships through January 31st. For full details, visit Prenuvo's website to read their terms and conditions and privacy notice. Prenuvo gifted me a whole body scan. A Prenuvo scan is a screening service, not diagnostic. Diagnosis and treatment are determined by your healthcare provider.

• 1:17Speaker 02

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• 2:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Hello.

• 2:09Corinne Vien?

  Hello.

• 2:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  What's up, everyone?

• 2:11Corinne Vien?

  This is, hey, what's up? Hello.

• 2:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This is Ladies and Tangents.

• 2:16Corinne Vien?

  Jerry and Sierra.

• 2:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I wonder if they'll ever know that we did this. Someone will tell them.

• 2:22Corinne Vien?

  I'm so excited for Jerry's new podcast.

• 2:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Wait, Jerry has a new podcast?

• 2:25Corinne Vien?

  Yes, I texted her the other day and I was like, wait, what's new in your life? I haven't caught up with you in a while. And she was like, oh, well, the new podcast and blah, blah. I was like, what? She has a new podcast. It's a podcast that, um, wait, is it coming out tomorrow? This would be later for everyone else. Okay. The first episode is January 9th, so in a couple of days from when we're recording now.

• 2:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So it already came out if you're listening to this episode.

• 2:46Corinne Vien?

  Yes. It's with her friend Rachel, Rach, who had a podcast already that existed called For Better or For Worse. It was like with, uh, someone else. So there's like a back catalog from a few years ago, but they took a few years break.

• 3:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 3:02Corinne Vien?

  And now Jerry is taking the place of the other host that is no longer involved. And so it's going to be Jerry and Rachel. And it's about like relationships and divorce and stuff like that.

• 3:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Wow, I'm going to listen. Have fun.

• 3:15Corinne Vien?

  Right? So Jerry's like the divorced one. Rachel's the remarried one, even though Jerry's about to be remarried too.

• 3:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Soon. Wait, I love that.

• 3:23Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, I'm really excited for that.

• 3:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So go check that out. We are not Ladies and Tangents.

• 3:27Corinne Vien?

  No.

• 3:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We're two girls, one ghost.

• 3:29Corinne Vien?

  Two girls, one ghost.

• 3:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And we are your guest sisters. That is Corinne. And I am Sabrina. And we are a podcast about the paranormal and weird shit. And this week, we're going to put tinfoil hats on, so.

• 3:44Corinne Vien?

  We really should make some.

• 3:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I honestly, last night was going to, and I, I also had such bad insomnia last night that, but it was one of those like really frustrating ones where I just like kept wanting to fall asleep. But every time I consciously was like, I'm not falling asleep. I was like, should I go make tinfoil hats? And I did not.

• 4:02Corinne Vien?

  We need a prop corner where we can just like grab what we need.

• 4:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We do need a prop corner, like the little like photo booth things.

• 4:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Imagine we have tinfoil hats on for this episode. Last week in episode 356, Corinne and I talked a lot about Stranger Things. And.

• 4:20Corinne Vien?

  Because I had a. A lot of anger.

• 4:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 4:22Corinne Vien?

  In my body.

• 4:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And we all know.

• 4:24Corinne Vien?

  I'm better now. We're recording the same day. It's like 10 minutes.

• 4:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Seven minutes later. You got it off your chest. But we all know Stranger Things. Even if you didn't watch it, it was impossible to ignore. This is like a show that has just become so part of pop culture and the zeitgeist in the last 10 years. 1980s, small town Indiana, a secret government facility hiding in plain sight, children with strange abilities, experiments that go too far, and a gate accidentally opened up into a strange, twisted, alternate universe, the upside down. But what if we told you that Stranger Things wasn't just born from the imagination of the Duffer Brothers, but inspired by a real place?

• 5:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Inspired by a real, secret government experiment that the government tried to cover up through mind control, memory wiping, and by eliminating those who knew too much. That's right, because Stranger Things was inspired by a very real conspiracy theory called The Montauk Project.

• 5:35Corinne Vien?

  Ayo.

• 5:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And today, we are talking all about The Montauk Project, which is why we're putting on our tinfoil hats. The Montauk Project is an alleged, secret government experiment that involved psychics, mind control, time travel, kidnapping of hundreds of thousands of children. An experiment that effectively ripped open a hole in the space-time continuum.

• 5:59Corinne Vien?

  I was trying to explain it to Brian the other day, because I was like, oh, Sabrina's gonna do an episode on The Montauk Project. And he was like, what's The Montauk Project? And I was like, what's The Montauk Project?

• 6:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 6:08Corinne Vien?

  And I attempted to explain it to him, and then I was like, hold on, I actually can't because I don't actually know what is conspiracy and what's not. So I was like, I don't know how much of this I'm telling you that's like, is the tinfoil hat and what is been released as fact?

• 6:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, I'll tell you this. Literally, none of it has been released as fact.

• 6:29Corinne Vien?

  Hmm.

• 6:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So this is.

• 6:31Corinne Vien?

  What the heck?

• 6:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Then it's all real. This is all conjecture and alleged, but.

• 6:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  The people who have shared these stories believe it to be true.

• 6:43Corinne Vien?

  Hmm, okay.

• 6:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  There has been no, it's not like how the government has released documents about MKUltra and Stargate and Gateway Project, like, things like that. There's no released.

• 6:55Corinne Vien?

  But I got the, I thought the Gateway Project was related to the Montauk Project.

• 6:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Mm-mm.

• 6:59Corinne Vien?

  Oh, interesting.

• 7:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Not outwardly.

• 7:03Corinne Vien?

  Also, I will say, after last week when I was poo-pooing a lot of season five of Stranger Things, one, one thing I did really appreciate was, and this is a spoiler for anyone who hasn't seen the finale, was when Hopper mentioned buying property in Montauk. I was like, oh, such a good nod to what inspired this whole series.

• 7:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, so the series was originally titled Montauk.

• 7:25Corinne Vien?

  Oh, yeah, that's right.

• 7:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. And then, I think Stranger Things is way better. But, yeah, it ends with Hopper's going to Montauk, which sounds like a really hard place to police. Um.

• 7:36Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, well, then his house is gonna be worth millions of dollars in the next few decades. He's gonna be doing great.

• 7:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, that's true.

• 7:42Corinne Vien?

  It's gonna be a tough decade, and then he's gonna be a rich man.

• 7:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And then he's gonna be a rich man. Okay. Today, we are diving into the origins of this conspiracy, and we're gonna let you decide, is this real? Or isn't it an elaborate story that has evolved into mass delusion? Before Stranger Things, and before the discovery of the alleged Montauk Project, there is a man. His name is Preston Nichols. And there are so many different ways that people tell the Montauk Project conspiracy. I think the most crucial, like, from all my research, I was like, this is the only way you can tell it. Because it is, Preston Nichols is the reason we know about or believe this to be a, a thing that happened.

• 8:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And I think the way in which he came to find it is, even if it's not real, it's the most magical, crazy story.

• 8:34Corinne Vien?

  I know. Now, this is, I'm like, he's the only reason? There's not other people that came forward?

• 8:39Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Since he published his book, yes. But, okay.

• 8:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Preston Nichols, and when you Google his name and photos, the photos are not kind to him.

• 8:50Corinne Vien?

  Oh.

• 8:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But so I found an older photo. Preston Nichols was a very science minded, technical man. He worked with electronics, radio systems, and engineering concepts. He's the type of person who, it reminds me of my brother when he was little, like, he had to take apart everything to see how it worked, and then he would put it back together. Like, this is Preston Nichols. He just wanted to know how everything worked. And despite his infamy now, it's really hard to find any information on his life before, like, the beginnings of this story.

• 9:21Corinne Vien?

  Mm-hmm.

• 9:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I'm not sure where he was born or when he was born. There are no verified records regarding his early career or life, which feels a little strange, but maybe that's on purpose. And strange is exactly the way I would describe this entire story.

• 9:36Corinne Vien?

  This is so, I'm already, like, on the edge of my seat because I, I thought I'd be going into this whole thing being like, yeah, all of this is real, but already from the start, I'm like, this is reminding me of some of the stories of, like, these people who come back and they're, they live in another planet and they're a time traveler and it's this whole thing, and then it's like, it was a hoax at the end.

• 9:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, I will say, when this story first started coming out, it's like in the eighties, since then, no one has changed their story.

• 10:03Corinne Vien?

  Hmm.

• 10:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So Preston's story, at least the part of the story that is pertinent to the Montoc Project in today's episode, begins in nineteen seventy-one. In nineteen seventy-one, Preston Nichols began working for a company called AIL, which is Airborne Instruments Laboratory, which is a very well-known defense contractor on Long Island. Preston was a specialist in electromagnetic phenomena. Basically, he deeply understood how electricity, magnetism, and electromagnetic waves behave and interact with materials and living systems. Nerd. No, and I say that in the sense of like, it's physics and science that I just, no matter what, my brain cannot conceptualize. It feels so otherworldly.

• 10:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But he understood it, was an expert in it, and it's here at AIL that Preston received a grant to study mental telepathy and to determine whether it was real or not. And it's important to note that Preston himself didn't have much interest in this field. So it's, right away, it's like, it's odd. Why would he be given a grant for this if he has no interest in it? I think the company probably got the grant and he was assigned to do the study. Yes, but it's not like he was just assigned to figure out like, what is happening with these people? And then concluded telepathy. Yeah. So he goes into this project pretty certain he's going to disprove that mental telepathy exists. Like, he's like, I don't think that's real. But he was in for a surprise.

• 11:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Not only did Preston come to determine that mental telepathy was in fact possible, he learned it did exist, and he uncovered something much deeper, much darker, something he himself was never supposed to recall. But we'll get back to that reveal in a bit. What? Oh my god. Okay, so this is probably a good place to state that in this episode about conspiracy theory, some of the information in this episode has been confirmed, like, details of origins of military bases and things like that. But a lot of it is alleged. It doesn't mean it's not true. After all, what are conspiracies if not conjecture and hypotheses and theories that have yet to be proven? Right.

• 12:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  My research does mostly come from the book that was written by Preston Nichols and Peter Moon called The Montauk Project: Experiments in Time, the silver anniversary edition, because it's been like, details have been added into it. But this is the story. So it's 1971. Preston is assigned to this project studying mental telepathy. He ran a series of studies. The specifics here are vague, but he determined multiple things. One, telepathic communication is real. Two, it operates on principles strikingly similar to radio waves that he called a telepathic wave. Three, the telepathic wave propagates in a similar fashion to that of electromagnetic waves. So the same way like radio waves work,

• 13:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  like he's seeing that telepathy kind of like operates on a similar wave.

• 13:05Corinne Vien?

  It's a little bit like Pluribus again.

• 13:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yes, yes. So this discovery cemented a new path for Preston. He's now officially obsessed with metaphysics. And even after his work for the project was completed, again, the completion of this project and the project itself, pretty vague. But after this is completed, he now seeks further discovery and starts running his own tests in his own spare time. By 1974, Preston is now running his own research. He had gathered a group of self-proclaimed psychics, and he's continuing to do tests.

• 13:36Corinne Vien?

  So this is outside of the grant. This is like underground research?

• 13:39Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  In his home lab. Yeah.

• 13:41Corinne Vien?

  Can you imagine having a home lab?

• 13:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This is like, we were working full-time jobs and our podcast was like our side hustle, like a hobby. This is, this is his podcast. Yeah. He is doing tests on psychics. Again, specifics are very vague, but these tests led to a strange discovery, a accidental discovery. So according to Preston, as he's running these tests with psychics, he's doing this on a daily basis, and he starts to realize every single day at the exact same time, every single psychic experiences a block.

• 14:16Corinne Vien?

  What?

• 14:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And it's for 20 minutes at a time, every day, same time. I'm just making up what the time is. So say it's like 12:00 PM. At 12:00 PM exactly, every single psychic, all of a sudden has like a psychic block. They can no longer tap in, they can no longer access it for 20 minutes. And the second the 20 minutes is over, they cannot access it again. So he's like, huh.

• 14:38Corinne Vien?

  Like, what's happening and is there someone else in control? Who is manipulating something for 20 minutes every day?

• 14:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, he's like, because of the consistency of it, like, there's something that is causing this blockage.

• 14:49Corinne Vien?

  Right.

• 14:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And being the guy that he is, Preston's like, I gotta find out what this blockage is. And based on his knowledge and the way that like, he felt like it was operating on this psychic wave similar to radio waves. He's like, there's gotta be some kind of signal interference, something that is blocking the waves.

• 15:06Corinne Vien?

  And this was just, this wasn't like every psychic ever. This was just the people who he was studying locally.

• 15:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That were in Long Island.

• 15:13Corinne Vien?

  So at least like, there was a block in Long Island.

• 15:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right. So he figures out that during that time, there is a frequency being transmitted through radio waves. And this frequency was specifically a 410 to 420 megahertz cycle. So for 20 minutes every day, this frequency was being put out into radio waves.

• 15:33Corinne Vien?

  Mm hmm.

• 15:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And it's cutting off blocking psychic abilities. So I think my first instinct would be to be like, okay, well, what is it about this frequency that is blocking psychics? But Preston's like, I know this frequency's gotta be local because it's impacting people here. I'm gonna go find it. He's like, I'm gonna go track down the location and source of this frequency. And this is where, I mean, there are gonna be so many themes and like moments in this episode that you, if you are a Stranger Things fan, you're gonna be like, oh, my God, that reminds me of Stranger Things. This moment reminds me so much of Dustin. He jerry rigs a contraption to find it. And he places a modified TV antenna on the roof of his car,

• 16:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  grabs a WHF receiver and drives around Long Island in search of the signal.

• 16:21Corinne Vien?

  Barry Henderson.

• 16:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right?

• 16:24Corinne Vien?

  Who was your favorite character?

• 16:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I mean, I think Eleven. I felt, I honestly, that was my one qualm. I feel like she disappeared a little bit from the story and she was so pertinent. Um, but then dipshit Derek just won me over this last season.

• 16:36Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, he was so good. I feel like Dustin was my consistent for day one favorite.

• 16:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  You said consistent, like?

• 16:44Corinne Vien?

  Ki- consistent.

• 16:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Like your kin spirit and consistent love.

• 16:47Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, but um, I feel like a lot of people feel this way. Steve Harrington had the biggest turnaround. Like, I loved all of the characters and I would have probably cried with most of them if there were deaths. But I will say the only ones that would have like

• 17:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  wrecked you.

• 17:05Corinne Vien?

  destroyed me would have been those two.

• 17:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, I feel like a lot of people felt the same. I loved Robin. I mean, I liked all of the characters.

• 17:14Corinne Vien?

  Robin, the first season that she came forward, she had such good one liners.

• 17:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 17:19Corinne Vien?

  When they were working at the like ahoy, whatever.

• 17:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 17:22Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, hers were so good.

• 17:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  They were all good. I actually loved Nancy and Jonathan's breakup scene. And I think so many people complained about it because they're like,

• 17:30Corinne Vien?

  Hey, really?

• 17:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. Oh, on TikTok, everyone was like, I had no idea they broke up. Like, I was so confused. And then some of the comments were like, it's because it was a healthy breakup. That's why so many people didn't understand. Eh. Like, it was like what a healthy relationship looks like.

• 17:46Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 17:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And we're full of toxic relationships in our world.

• 17:49Corinne Vien?

  Well, and also I feel like it was nice because it was almost like they were, I feel like so much of like Henry and Vecna. And like that sort of lore was like finding the truth and telling the truth and like being authentic. And like that sort of thing was hard for him because he's all about like manipulation.

• 18:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yep.

• 18:07Corinne Vien?

  And it was them finally like revealing their truth and then they get to be set free, like literally from the

• 18:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And I love that Nancy ends up with no one. That's my favorite. I love when that.

• 18:17Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 18:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I love when no one's dating. I love when there's no love.

• 18:22Corinne Vien?

  Everyone's single. You had no love. Max and Lucas were the best.

• 18:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I know, I did love them.

• 18:28Corinne Vien?

  Watching them in the background, just like constantly like

• 18:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 18:30Corinne Vien?

  all over each other, just so happy to be together. I loved them.

• 18:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, so Preston Nichols is very Dustin right now. He's like driving away around in like the WSQX van searching for the signal. It led him directly to Montauk Point and the red and white radar antenna on the Air Force Base. And this antenna is ginormous. It is like, one description said the size of a football field. It's massive.

• 19:00Corinne Vien?

  Damn, how could you not see that through like the whole, this isn't a super hilly spot. Oh, I guess it's.

• 19:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I mean, Montauk's spacious. It's like, this is at the very tip of Montauk.

• 19:11Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, I know, but it's not like mountainous. Like, I feel like you'd be able, in my mind, I was thinking of like a giant tall antenna.

• 19:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, no, it's.

• 19:19Corinne Vien?

  This is girthy.

• 19:20Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, it's not like a, it's not a Stranger Things antenna. So he arrives to this base and he's at the exterior, right? This is an active military base. And he sees the radar antenna, but it's at a distance behind the heavily secured active air force, air force, air force base.

• 19:36Corinne Vien?

  Air force.

• 19:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Air force. So he assumes either this is an accidental transmission, or it's something related to the airbase. So he goes up to security at the front gate and is like, hey, what's that radar being used for? Which, love that for him, but also like, I would not trust any answer that's given to me.

• 19:57Corinne Vien?

  Right. And also, like, if we take a page from Stranger Things again, most of the people who are there probably don't know what something actually is.

• 20:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Is.

• 20:08Corinne Vien?

  Right. So.

• 20:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Which I did feel bad for all of the soldier deaths in Stranger Things where I was like, these guys literally thought that they were like tending to a crack in the earth. Yeah, but some of them also knew what they were doing.

• 20:17Corinne Vien?

  Some of them, but a lot of them that got killed, the ones that knew mostly lived for a while. And the ones that didn't got killed quick.

• 20:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Eleven like got her vengeance at the end there? Um, okay. So he asks, and whoever's at the security gate, I don't, I don't know how the conversation went, if there was pressing or what, but like, he tells Preston that it's being used for a project run by the FAA. The FAA is the Federal Aviation Administration, which this does not make any sense at all. I didn't know this, but because Preston knows things and researched, but this does not make sense. The FAA tracks civilian aircrafts. This radar, and I'll talk about the specifics of it a little bit more later. This was built during World War II. It's a radar defense system designed to detect enemy aircrafts and missiles

• 21:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  at vast distances. This is not scanning local airspace.

• 21:12Corinne Vien?

  And it's on the very edge of Montauk.

• 21:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. So this is not adding up. And also in my mind, I'm like, like we just talked about, what does the security guard really know? Did he misspeak? Did he just like make, pull something out of his ass? Is that what he was told?

• 21:26Corinne Vien?

  Probably.

• 21:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Either way, while Preston knows this is sus, he's at a dead end. It's an active airbase and he's not gonna be able to get more information. So for 10 years, this is 1974, for 10 years, this frequency that's being emitted and into the radio waves for 20 minutes every day is just a mystery. And Preston continues with his own metaphysical research, but the question just remained this, this constant itch in the back of his brain, right? He's like, what is this?

• 21:56Corinne Vien?

  See, in my mind, I'm like, they're trying to transmit a message into space every single day. It's crazier.

• 22:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Ten years, this, it just, it's a mystery to him because he can't get answers until 1984. And a friend of his gives him a call and is like, hey, Preston, guess what? That military base, it's actually no longer operating and it's abandoned.

• 22:21Corinne Vien?

  Now you can go investigate.

• 22:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, naturally Preston and his friend are like, well, let's go check out that abandoned airbase and break in. And it is here that they make multiple odd discoveries. The base doesn't look like it was shut down. It looks like it was truly abandoned in a panic. Like files and debris are strewn about, high-tech equipment is just left behind.

• 22:43Corinne Vien?

  That's bizarre because it's probably worth a lot of money.

• 22:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, so Preston's first instinct, that he's this technical guy, he loves, he loves equipment.

• 22:51Corinne Vien?

  Right.

• 22:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  He sees all this valuable stuff and he's like, me want.

• 22:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And so he reaches out to, I guess there's this agency called the Surplus Disposal Agency in Michigan. And it's an agency that would be able to like track down the ownership of this equipment. So that he could then speak to the right agency about purchasing said equipment.

• 23:12Corinne Vien?

  So he wasn't just, yeah, he wasn't just going in and being like, oh, I'm going to take it because it's abandoned. I'm going to potentially steal government property.

• 23:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  He doesn't want to do that. Yeah. He's going about it the right way. I mean, he works for a military.

• 23:24Corinne Vien?

  He knows what to do.

• 23:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, contractor company. But oddly, this agency cannot track down ownership. The military does not take ownership of it. Like they're like, this is not ours. General Services Admin also says, we don't know anything about it. Which is weird because this isn't, this was an air force base. Like the military, so we are led to believe operated here. How is there no record of it? Literally no one would claim ownership of it, which in a way meant that the equipment had literally been abandoned, meaning Preston could just go take it.

• 23:59Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 24:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So Preston called up a friend of his named Brian. And Brian was also a psychic that had helped Preston in his years of metaphysical research. So together Preston and Brian-

• 24:10Corinne Vien?

  I love the Preston went in originally being like, I'm going to discredit psychics and telepathy. And now he's like, I gotta call my psychic friend to figure out what's going on.

• 24:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. Preston and Brian together go to the abandoned base to retrieve as much equipment as possible. When they arrive, they decide to split up and tackle more ground. Preston heads in one direction and Brian in another. It's around 7:00 PM. The base is shrouded in darkness as Preston approaches a large and abandoned building. He pushes the door open and it swings with a loud creak that reverberates off the walls and floors. He clicks on his flashlight and marches down the long corridor in search of equipment for his own research. He scans one room that from its remains seems to have once housed a receptionist. He continues on, looking room to room.

• 25:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  As he's about halfway down the hallway, his flashlight suddenly sputters out, sending him into darkness. He clicks it on and off again. No luck. He tries again and again. Bang! Preston spins around, searching for the source of the sound, but it's entirely too dark, his eyes not yet adjusted. And then he hears another sound, this time more like footsteps, heavy and deliberate, moving toward him. He's desperately trying to turn the flashlight on while simultaneously calling out, "Brian?" But there's no response, just the steady sound of footsteps getting closer and closer. His heart rate quickens, his breath shortens, the footsteps are mere steps away now. He tries once more to turn on his flashlight and just as the shadow rounds the corner, click!

• 25:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  His flashlight shines brightly, illuminating a man. The man covers his eyes, blinded by the light. Preston lowers it and the two men stand there for a moment staring. Preston doesn't recognize this man, but something in a way the man's expression changes makes Preston think the man recognizes him.

• 26:02Corinne Vien?

  Ooh creepy.

• 26:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And sure enough, he does. This man introduces himself, which is a name that has been kept anonymous, but he tells Preston that he moved into this building after it became abandoned. That a year prior, so in 1983, there was a big experiment that went wrong. But Preston should remember, because Preston was this man's boss.

• 26:24Corinne Vien?

  What? Wait, I'm flabbergasted.

• 26:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Preston, obviously confused, is like, huh?

• 26:29Corinne Vien?

  Was this Preston's equipment? Was he the one leading this project? What the fuck?

• 26:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So this is where the first big seed is planted. That's something, I mean, already there's like mysterious things happening, but like, it's even weirder now.

• 26:43Corinne Vien?

  Ooh, I, yeah, this is creepy.

• 26:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So this is what the man tells Preston. Apparently, this man, who is now living in this abandoned building, was a technician on the base. Preston was his boss on the project. The project went terribly wrong and a massive beast appeared and frightened everyone away. Of course, Preston's like, okay, this is a man who's just like living in an abandoned building. Maybe he's just an unhoused man. He's probably a little bit delusional, like making this up. How could Preston have been this stranger's boss in a place that he had never before been inside? And a massive beast just appearing? That feels like fiction.

• 27:21Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 27:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So Preston does like what he can to leave this man behind. He's like, I feel, I don't want to be here anymore. So he goes-

• 27:28Corinne Vien?

  Preston's also like, it sounds like he's supposed to be this very like black and white logical guy, and he's being challenged-

• 27:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Constantly.

• 27:34Corinne Vien?

  -in the world by what's in the gray. But like-

• 27:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yes.

• 27:38Corinne Vien?

  He, his default is like, it's this or this.

• 27:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, it's interesting because the introduction to the book talks about hard facts and soft facts and living in the gray.

• 27:48Corinne Vien?

  Oh, really?

• 27:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And like, they present this whole thing as soft facts and a story that lives in the gray.

• 27:54Corinne Vien?

  Hmm.

• 27:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So I like that you brought that up. But, so he goes to find Brian. Remember, Brian is off-

• 28:00Corinne Vien?

  The psychic.

• 28:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  -in another direction.

• 28:01Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, wandering around.

• 28:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And when he finds Brian, before he can tell Brian like what just happened and what he just encountered, he realizes something is wrong with Brian. Brian like looks like just pale.

• 28:13Corinne Vien?

  Oh.

• 28:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And Brian's a psychic, right? So he's like, are you good? And Brian's like, something is wrong with this place. He psychically was feeling very off. So Preston asks Brian if he can do a reading of the place. And keep in mind, Preston has not had the chance to tell Brian anything of what he just encountered with this like man living in building.

• 28:33Corinne Vien?

  Right.

• 28:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But what Brian shares during his reading is eerily similar to the story that the man had just told him. Irregular weather patterns, mind control, a vicious beast. Preston and Brian agree that something very strange happened on the space. The evidence is piling up. The frequency emitted from the tower that interfered with the psychics, false information as to what the radar was being used for, the base being abandoned, equipment unclaimed, and now this, a beast, mind control, and somehow Preston was involved.

• 29:02Corinne Vien?

  There's also like, there's other people that live in Montauk, like, how is the community? How are the neighbors? How is no one else?

• 29:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We'll get there.

• 29:09Corinne Vien?

  How does this just exist in this little bubble? Or how does one person remember being involved in the project, but Preston doesn't?

• 29:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Ah, no, there's so many questions. There's so many questions. So Preston and Brian are like, we need to get out of here as quick as possible. Like, there's just weird vibes. They pack up as much equipment as possible and they leave the base. They're trying to make sense of it all. They're like, something has definitely happened. But I think the thing that sticks with me and probably Preston too is like, how could he be involved? He has no memory of being there in his life. So they agree that-

• 29:39Corinne Vien?

  Right, and don't other people have, like, aren't they able to account for his life? Like, what he did last year and being with him?

• 29:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And- Yep.

• 29:46Corinne Vien?

  So how was he two places at once?

• 29:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's a good question. That's the question. So they leave being like, that mystery man probably confused Preston for someone else. It was a dark hallway. Maybe he thought he saw the man that was his boss.

• 30:01Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 30:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's just what they leave with, because like, they're trying to think rationally. But then a few weeks later, Preston is in his lab at the back of his house, when all of a sudden he hears his front door like fly open and someone marches through his house all the way back to his lab and confronts Preston. This is a man Preston has never seen in his life, but this man who's just willy-nilly entering his home, knows Preston. And he confronts Preston, saying that he was his boss at Montauk base. And he basically starts corroborating the same details that the other man at the abandoned building did. Unprompted, unrelated, different man claims Preston was his boss.

• 30:40Corinne Vien?

  Wait, this is so freaky to like, wait, basically like- Be woken up in waking life till you may be having amnesia and all these random people. Like you have to discover not only the mystery of what's happening, but like the mystery of yourself.

• 30:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Of you.

• 30:54Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 30:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Like, everything you believe is now not real.

• 30:57Corinne Vien?

  How can you be? I would think that I was-

• 31:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Was going crazy?

• 31:01Corinne Vien?

  Experiencing schizophrenia.

• 31:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, 100%. Yeah.

• 31:05Corinne Vien?

  Man.

• 31:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Like, I literally wrote, can you imagine multiple people approaching you, claiming to know you, stating you were their boss at an airbase, but you have zero recollection? It's not like a doppelganger situation where like, oh, someone looks like you.

• 31:17Corinne Vien?

  But you're always alone when you see them.

• 31:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  By name. That's true. But so Preston is so puzzled by this, but naturally he is the type of person who's like, well, I need answers. I need to figure out what's going on. So he is like, I'm diving deeper. I'm doing a further investigation. I'm so excited. I'm getting my whole body MRI scan from Prenewvo in a couple of weeks.

• 31:38Corinne Vien?

  It's honestly so important. It's like one of those things where getting older and aging has provided me so many anxieties about like what's going on.

• 31:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I recently had some medical issues in my family and everyone in my family is like, let's just do everything we can to get ahead and take our own health into our own hands. Prenewvo's whole body scan is a radiation-free MRI designed to help provide a detailed, non-invasive look at your body in under an hour, and it helps evaluate across major organs and systems, including the brain, spine, abdomen, pelvis, and more. Prenewvo's whole body scan can help detect many cancers, aneurysms, and hundreds of other conditions. And they have memberships that bundle MRI scans, blood panels, and a personalized results review to track your health year after year.

• 32:20Corinne Vien?

  To learn more about Prenewvo and get $300 off your whole body MRI, go to prenewvo.com/tgog and use code TGOG. That's P-R-E-N-U-V-O.com/tgog. Terms and conditions apply.

• 32:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

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• 33:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And what better way to investigate than with what is publicly available? So the following information is factual and documented information about the history of Montauk Air Base. Montauk Air Base, or Camp Hero, dates back to World War II. It was built to defend the eastern seaboard and was equipped with coastal gun batteries, bunkers, and underground tunnels. But it was built, and I love this, to resemble a small coastal town. So there were these like facades built. It almost was like a Hollywood set. There were facades built onto the exterior of all these military bases.

• 33:54Corinne Vien?

  Okay, you said Hollywood. My mind immediately went to North Korea.

• 33:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Or North Korea. Yeah. But, um, so it's like right after Pearl Harbor, basically, and the US dorning World War II and like fighting against Japan. They're like, we need to protect our country. So they decide to build what is Camp Hero on Long Island. It was meant to be an unassuming base so that like someone from the outside, a enemy, would look at it and be like, oh, that's just a little town. That's not a military base. But it was to protect New York City and Long Island from German naval or air attacks. And also there's like the U-boats, if you keep, if you remember those, like, which there's also a whole show called Das Boot on Hulu. So good. About U-boats. But that's the plan. That's what this is built for.

• 34:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  From the get go, though, it's built to be secretive.

• 34:47Corinne Vien?

  Hmm.

• 34:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And Montauk was the perfect place for this because of its location. Montauk is the easternmost point of Long Island, New York. Basically, the edge of land before vast ocean. So if you look at it on a map, well, you can't really see, but yeah, it's the perfect location for a base.

• 35:05Corinne Vien?

  Right.

• 35:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's isolated.

• 35:06Corinne Vien?

  The point of the satellite signal or the whatever, radio.

• 35:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Radar.

• 35:13Corinne Vien?

  Radar. I'm like, who were they trying to monitor?

• 35:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So that comes later. So that's not built at first. But so it's a perfect location because it's isolated. It's not inaccessible. It's surrounded by water on all three sides with only one main road in and out. So in terms of like military, prime location. And Montauk is a small fishing village, especially when this was built, with a very small year round population.

• 35:37Corinne Vien?

  So not the multimillion dollar vacation homes that people have today.

• 35:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And even still, like, it's pretty isolated. Like, there's still a very small year round population. So this is like a perfect place for a military base, but also think about it, perfect place for secret government experiments because less people equals less questions. So in the beginning, it was a military base that did make a lot of sense. And then after World War Two, the government repurposed Camp Hero for the Cold War. It became a place to detect air and missile threats. In the 1950s Cold War era, the site became the Montauk Air Force Station, again, to detect Soviet bombers or missiles and protect the US. As technology evolved, the government built the most important structure at Montauk Air Base around the 1960s. The radar tower.

• 36:24Corinne Vien?

  Hmm.

• 36:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It is specifically called an ANFPS 35 radar, which was a part of the US's SAGE Defense System, which stood for Semi Automatic Ground Environment. So basically, it was computerized. And there were multiple of these radars, like all throughout the US, that could basically communicate with one another.

• 36:44Corinne Vien?

  Oh.

• 36:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Which is why they're so massive.

• 36:46Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 36:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And they can detect like the airspace at vast distances.

• 36:51Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. Which I don't not like, like I want to know if there's something

• 36:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 36:57Corinne Vien?

  sketchy flying towards us.

• 36:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This is one of the largest radar systems ever built. And like stated earlier, it was designed for long range detection and had an extremely powerful electromagnetic output.

• 37:09Corinne Vien?

  But it's like, how does, how is something that's probably so expensive and feels so important just abandoned?

• 37:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, also, this is the only radar art of this kind that's still standing. Why? Why keep it if it's no longer something that the government uses?

• 37:24Corinne Vien?

  Right.

• 37:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Adds to the conspiracy.

• 37:26Corinne Vien?

  Wait, so question about Preston for one second.

• 37:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 37:28Corinne Vien?

  So was he in Montauk or was he just somewhere else in Long Island?

• 37:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Unclear. I don't know.

• 37:33Corinne Vien?

  Cause Long Island is big.

• 37:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. He's close enough to Montauk that in a day he's driving and

• 37:40Corinne Vien?

  And finding the, yeah, okay.

• 37:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  After the Cold War era, the base continued to operate until 1981, when it was shut down. Apparently that's like when they, the like military says they no longer operated this, but the building itself and everything was left standing and abandoned in 1983. Preston's research and a initial investigation found zero evidence of government research or experimentation. On the surface, publicly, this was a military base that evolved with the years until suddenly it was closed. So everything I just shared is public information. It's documented and none of it answers Preston's questions or the mystery that was unfolding before him.

• 38:22Corinne Vien?

  Mm hmm.

• 38:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So he has to go one step further in his investigation and that meant speaking to the locals. Preston sets up camp on the beach for I think a week by the abandoned base. And during his time, he speaks with as many locals as possible and oh goodness, did they have stories to tell.

• 38:40Corinne Vien?

  Oh my gosh.

• 38:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Over the years, there were countless reports of strange happenings, the wildest being related to weather. It snowed in August, which I tried to find reports of that weather phenomenon. Cause like you would think if this happened in the seventies or eighties, like there would be an article.

• 38:57Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 38:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Couldn't find anything.

• 38:58Corinne Vien?

  Oh, interesting. Yeah. Cause there have been like freak things like that. That have happened in the past where like it is recorded where there are photos of people in July and like the month that was dark forever and there's snow on the ground.

• 39:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  There is a declassified experiment about these like weather things that were used around this time in a different experiment. So like adding to like why

• 39:24Corinne Vien?

  Are we okay? Like are humans okay?

• 39:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 39:28Corinne Vien?

  Why do we need to do these things?

• 39:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  There would be hurricanes and electrical storms that came out of nowhere. Meteorologists had predicted perfect weather and all of a sudden a storm would strike and somehow it would avoid specifically the airbase. So there was like this bubble over it.

• 39:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  There were stories of animals behaving oddly like all of a sudden a horde of, I'm just going to use deer as an example, would like come crashing through town, like literally breaking through windows of buildings. And then like acting erratically.

• 39:55Corinne Vien?

  Well, because what are they hearing that we can't?

• 39:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Exactly. Locals told Preston of kids going missing and of rumors of experiments going on at the Montauk Air Base. And again, these are all rumors and locals are, you know, they're like, oh, what's happening over at that airbase? And the rumors that spread through town from the 1970s through the 1980s were that they were studying mind control and time travel there. Again, this is all hearsay. Preston has yet to find any physical documentation or evidence to back up these claims. And then in 1984, it is wild how many people just walk into his life and seem to give him answers. But I think it's because they're all actually tied together because of the real reality that he's not supposed to remember.

• 40:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  In 1984, a man named Duncan Cameron knocks at Preston Nichols' front door. He has this like piece of equipment with him that's not working and he's like, I heard you're the man to go to for help with machinery. And Preston and Brian are both very suspicious of this sudden arrival because Duncan Cameron doesn't just get his machine fixed and go. He's like, oh, what's you doing here? Like, I want to stay and befriend you. And they're kind of like, this is just like weird timing.

• 41:09Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 41:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And his

• 41:11Corinne Vien?

  Although like that's so something my dad would do.

• 41:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But I think it's the combination of like what Duncan's interested in and

• 41:19Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 41:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  the timing of his showing up while Preston is like unraveling all of this. And he has a good inkling because sure enough, he is like, I have a weird feeling. And he's curious because again, he feels like this feels convenient. So according to his book, Preston and Brian were dubious and suspicious of Duncan. So they take Duncan to Camp Hero to walk the abandoned buildings of Montauk Air Base. And almost immediately Duncan starts like talking about the buildings. He knows all of the buildings. He knows what they were used for. He has knowledge that he shouldn't have.

• 41:52Corinne Vien?

  Right.

• 41:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And when they enter the transmitter building, Duncan goes into a trance-like state that Preston has to like repeatedly shake him out of. So they take Duncan back to his lab and it is there that they use techniques that he learned over the years to help unblock Duncan's memories. And it is there that they learn so many things. Namely, that Duncan had been programmed to befriend Preston, discover everything he knew, then kill him and destroy the lab and all of his findings. So someone is trying to prevent him from doing this investigation.

• 42:29Corinne Vien?

  This is so tough because I, I just keep thinking about the movie A Beautiful Mind.

• 42:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Which is also a very trippy movie.

• 42:37Corinne Vien?

  Yes.

• 42:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So now Duncan becomes a major part of this unraveling of what will later and now known, become known as the Montauk Project. But he's also a major part of the Philadelphia Experiment, which we might be hearing on soon. So Duncan and his brother had served aboard the USS Eldridge and were members of the crew. Yes. More on that soon. As Duncan's mission came forward, Preston was able to deprogram him. And Duncan's like, I guess.

• 43:09Corinne Vien?

  Like how?

• 43:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I think like hypnosis.

• 43:11Corinne Vien?

  This isn't you.

• 43:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, right.

• 43:12Corinne Vien?

  Come back to me.

• 43:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I think going back to the base did like snap something in Duncan.

• 43:18Corinne Vien?

  Interesting.

• 43:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  He probably shouldn't have gone back.

• 43:20Corinne Vien?

  So everyone that steps on the base remembers.

• 43:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Something.

• 43:24Corinne Vien?

  But Preston.

• 43:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But he even had like, he was drawn to it. He kept being drawn to it.

• 43:29Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 43:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I think Duncan, similar to Preston, is like, wait, there's a part of me that I don't remember. Like, someone, somewhere told me to befriend you and kill you, and I didn't even know I was operating on those commands. Like, he's scared of his own thoughts now, too.

• 43:46Corinne Vien?

  This also reminds me a little bit of the movie Arrival, where it's like, she played a part and set up things without knowing she did, and then was told later that she did. And it's like, well, how is this?

• 43:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  How is that possible?

• 43:57Corinne Vien?

  How is that possible? How am I here?

• 43:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  What is time?

• 44:00Corinne Vien?

  They found this out, like, yeah.

• 44:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  What is reality?

• 44:02Corinne Vien?

  It's so trippy.

• 44:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's so trippy. And there are a lot more details. I mean, the book is like 300 pages, so you can read more. I'm, I'm trying to like

• 44:11Corinne Vien?

  Make it one podcast episode.

• 44:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, it's still 26 pages, my research, but yeah, not 300. And there's also like countless of Reddit threads and other documents and documentaries and whatnot. So there's a lot of information if you want more, but somehow Duncan and Preston, with a series of things, deprogram him. And Duncan feels grateful for Preston's help, and he's like, I want to help you solve this, because he too is missing memories.

• 44:38Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 44:39Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So it is with Duncan's assistance that Preston is finally able to uncover what happened at the Montauk Air Base and how he was possibly involved. So now, at this point in the story, it's 1984, and Preston knows a couple of things are true. Something strange went on at the Montauk Air Base. Something was being kept secret. And in his research and with the assistance of a senator, he was informed that the Montauk Air Base had actually been decommissioned in 1969 and enlisted as a property held by General Services Administration since 1970. So then why was security pretending it was still an active military base? Lots of lies, lots of secrets.

• 45:17Corinne Vien?

  Like, if they cared about what was in the building, they would just remove the item. So it's not about

• 45:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, something is actively happening. Somehow, also Preston knows that he himself was involved, but he had no memory of it, meaning that somehow mind control or mind tampering was taking place. Or, and he starts to be like, am I living in different timelines? Like, are there two versions of me that exist?

• 45:42Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 45:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Either way, he's confused as hell and he wants answers.

• 45:46Corinne Vien?

  He's masterminded one and the victim in the other.

• 45:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Through a series of techniques and combination of hypnosis, investigation and studying of technology and electromagnetism. A lot of this is unclear because I'm like, did he fully recover the memories or is like some of this like hypothesis? I don't know.

• 46:03Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. Is he Vecna in this story?

• 46:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, he's not.

• 46:07Corinne Vien?

  Oh.

• 46:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And he's not Papa either. You are like Papa. Again, I'm truncating the timeline here, but it took him from nineteen eighty-four to nineteen eighty-nine to truly put the pieces together. And keep in mind, his interest in this matter began in nineteen seventy-one when he was given that grant to study metaphysics. But here's a summary of what he garnered over the years. From nineteen seventy-one to nineteen eighty-three, there was a secretive government experiment operating at the Montauk Air Base, which is now known as the Montauk Project, but was originally known as Phoenix Two by officials involved. Two. Interesting, meaning it's not the first time.

• 46:49Corinne Vien?

  Right.

• 46:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  At its core, and again, like all of this is the conspiracy theory that is the Montauk Project. There is no documentation that proves its existence, but at its core.

• 47:02Corinne Vien?

  Sorry, I need to do one thing really fast.

• 47:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  What?

• 47:05Corinne Vien?

  This is reminding me of a TikTok and I just cannot find it because of course, like I watched the whole TikTok and then I didn't like it or save it.

• 47:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 47:12Corinne Vien?

  But there was this woman who her mom worked at the Pentagon.

• 47:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Mm hmm.

• 47:17Corinne Vien?

  And she said that as a child, she went, her mom like worked on one of like the, their two basement levels. And her mom worked on like one of those floors and she brought her to work sometimes to like just grab something.

• 47:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 47:28Corinne Vien?

  And she said her mom had to grab something one time and she wasn't supposed to be down on that floor, like clearance wise. But she was just a kid. So her mom was like, we're going to be in and out really quick. I gotta grab something, we'll leave. But she got caught, which like wasn't that big of a deal. But she was like, the whole point of this story is I've never forgotten this strange door that felt weird to me in this room in the basement. Of the Pentagon that she said had a symbol on it. And I can't remember what the symbol was, but when you said Phoenix, I was like, was it the Phoenix? Because whatever it was, she found out was like, maybe some sort of symbol that meant like secretive government or military experiments. But she was like, it's weird that like, just a door would stand out to me as a kid and I would feel weird about it. And not stop being able to think about it my entire life.

• 48:13Corinne Vien?

  And now she's probably, she's like in her thirties and she's like, I still think about that door from when I was like eight. So I don't remember who it was. I can't reference the TikTok.

• 48:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But I mean, for sure, there are weird things happening and the government is, we know for a fact there are operations and things happening that we do not know.

• 48:29Corinne Vien?

  Right. But in my mind, I was like, oh my God, was that Phoenix one?

• 48:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Could have been. Um, okay. So at its core, the Montauk Project was believed to be designed to explore, weaponize and control the human mind. Mind control was the goal, but it was not one single experiment being conducted. There were many. And while yes, this is conspiracy, we know for a fact, the government at this time and prior to this absolutely was. There are declassified documents, there's MKUltra, there's Stargate, there's Gateway Project. Like all of these things have come out.

• 49:04Corinne Vien?

  To light.

• 49:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And that's what they were, they were doing remote viewing, they were doing, they were seeing about mind control. Like they were doing all these things.

• 49:11Corinne Vien?

  Part of one of the experiments.

• 49:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I know, I remember you saying that.

• 49:13Corinne Vien?

  My grandma still shushes him when he tries to talk about it. I don't know if it's because she's not supposed to, or if she's scared or just like hates thinking about that time of life. But yeah, you give him enough wine and stick him in a pool on a float on a sunny day and he'll start telling you stories.

• 49:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, get your grandpa drunk. Who knows what he knows? Okay, but Montauk Project, there were many different experiments being conducted. There were sub projects that included memory manipulation, object impermanence and object creation, torture, LSD, psychic amplification, remote viewing, telepathy, time manipulation and portal creation.

• 49:50Corinne Vien?

  The LSD is what my grandpa was part of.

• 49:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. And these are just a few of the, the experiments or things that they were testing that have been hypothesized or presented by. Alleged contributors or subjects of the experiments who have since come forward. We will get into some specifics in just a moment, but keep in mind while Preston Nichols was meant to believe he was working for the defense contractor AIL in nineteen seventy one. Nineteen seventy one is also the same year that Project Montauk is believed to have begun. So the timelines line up of nineteen seventy one, he

• 50:23Corinne Vien?

  How very severance.

• 50:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's so severance. He believes he is testing telepathy.

• 50:30Corinne Vien?

  Yes.

• 50:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Mental telepathy.

• 50:32Corinne Vien?

  So there's like some

• 50:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's like they reprogrammed his memories with hints of truth.

• 50:38Corinne Vien?

  Yes.

• 50:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And and also keep in mind, like, there's so many moments that he's interacting with the Montauk base between nineteen seventy one and nineteen eighty three. The years of its operation, like in his mind, remember I said for ten years it was sitting in the back of his mind until nineteen eighty four, when it's abandoned?

• 50:57Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 50:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So for ten years, it's in the back of his mind because he's he actually was working at the airbase.

• 51:04Corinne Vien?

  That's crazy.

• 51:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Doing this experiment.

• 51:06Corinne Vien?

  Oh, my god.

• 51:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  All of his memories had been rewritten from nineteen seventy one through August of nineteen eighty three because of the incident that shut down the Montauk project. Or at least that location. So what are the real memories? Again, this is what Preston and Duncan and Brian, like all the people involved now have like unraveled. And these are what they believe are the real memories.

• 51:31Corinne Vien?

  Okay, already my mind is like, did someone wipe his memory, but just no one else? Or did he wipe his own?

• 51:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But Duncan's memory was wiped too, remember?

• 51:40Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, but but some of the other guys weren't.

• 51:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And also, Brian, the psychic who has been his friend.

• 51:45Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 51:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Was a subject in the Montauk project. He doesn't remember that. He just thinks him and Preston are friends. And they've been working together on a on Preston's own study.

• 51:55Corinne Vien?

  But the fact that Preston was like, it seems like he was the one that was conducting a lot of this research and super important makes me wonder if he

• 52:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But he's not actually. That's the story they made him believe.

• 52:08Corinne Vien?

  God.

• 52:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. So 1971, the Montauk Project is believed to have started and Preston Nichols was brought on as a technical specialist and systems operator. He worked with electromagnetic technology, so he's not in charge. He's conducting orders from others who are in charge and above him. He monitored how the technology interacted with the human mind, observed the effects of the electromagnetic exposure, and assisted in experiments where mental states were, in fact, influenced and measured. So he was pressing buttons.

• 52:40Corinne Vien?

  Mm hmm.

• 52:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Which is not too different from what he actually remembers doing in 1971. Just the memory he was led to believe was that he received a grant to study mental telepathy and that he was running that study. But in reality, he's working on this project, pressing buttons, following other people's orders. The more that Preston worked on the projects, the darker the project became and the more nefarious side of the project revealed itself. He began as an unknowing participant, but during his time there, I mean, this is a 12 and a half year period, he became an aware insider, specifically during the Montauk Chair Experiment. So the Montauk Chair is the most prominent, or one of the most prominent experiments

• 53:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  talked about, about the Montauk Project and prominent studies that was conducted. It is also where Preston Nichols first met Duncan Cameron. So prior to Duncan Cameron showing up at Preston Nichols' door in 1984, knocking on his door, be like, hey, my equipment's broken, I'm actually programmed to kill you. They had met each other in the days of the study.

• 53:45Corinne Vien?

  Hmm.

• 53:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Duncan Cameron was a psychic, along with many other unwilling test subjects involved.

• 53:50Corinne Vien?

  So like, everyone's a psychic. Is Preston a psychic too and just doesn't know it?

• 53:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, but I think the subjects, at first, I think they were testing on anyone, but then they realized they could manipulate people who were open psychically more.

• 54:03Corinne Vien?

  Hmm. Well, makes sense. They're already partway there.

• 54:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So test subjects, often Duncan Cameron himself, were placed in this chair that was inside a shielded room. And I have a picture of Eleven with her like little like brain things on because it feels similar. But the chair was described as Metal wired into surrounding equipment and connected to a computer or technological system. A lot of the like physics here is very confusing to me, but it makes sense to the people operating it, right? So once in the chair, this person would be exposed to a strong enough field of radio waves that could influence the brainwaves but not damage it. Or that's what they evolved to. Like at first, I think they were just like pumping strong radio waves to see what would happen.

• 54:46Corinne Vien?

  Right.

• 54:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But the purpose here was to try to amplify human thought. The subject would be asked to concentrate intensely on an image, an idea, or an emotion. This thought would then be transmitted to the computers and become data. And the combination and strength of this mental slash data signal could in turn create a physical manifestation.

• 55:07Corinne Vien?

  A physical manifestation?

• 55:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yes. So say-

• 55:10Corinne Vien?

  Oh, what the hell? Because I was just thinking about, I had interviewed, I didn't include it in Blink. I think I like maybe said like one line about it, but I interviewed this one doctor who said like they are literally working on being able to like use a like chip in your brain or like some sort of sensor for people who

• 55:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Can't speak and stuff?

• 55:30Corinne Vien?

  Can't speak or are even like potentially appear unconscious. Yeah, covert consciousness to full on communicate sentences, words, and it's like, how do you do that?

• 55:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, apparently that already exists.

• 55:42Corinne Vien?

  But this is going like a step further.

• 55:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right. And I think like a lot of this evolved, like they were truly just throwing pasta noodles at the wall to see what stuck. And when something would stick, then they would like tinker with it and evolve it. So throughout the years, this is what it evolved to. Say Duncan was to think of an apple. The power of his thought, especially because he was psychic and he was like in this higher state, maybe. The power of his thought combined with the technology could produce a physical apple. I think in like a portal type of thing, there would be like a rift in time and space.

• 56:14Corinne Vien?

  Was it a physical apple or was it the illusion of an apple?

• 56:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  There's some question-

• 56:18Corinne Vien?

  Can you touch the apple?

• 56:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I don't know. And like, maybe there's more information about it. I, I don't know.

• 56:24Corinne Vien?

  And are you actually seeing the apple or is this everyone's brain syncing up and seeing the same thing?

• 56:33Corinne Vien?

  Or believing in the same thing being shown.

• 56:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I don't have an answer, but eventually it does become, it interacts with our world. So Duncan was especially good at producing the physical manifestations, but the tech could not work without a human. Over time, apparently this chair and its techniques were used for bending time and even time travel. And it was around this time that Preston started to see the truth because he started to see that the people who were being placed in the chair were not willing participants. And they were often like bruised, battered, scared, terrified. And then he starts to unravel a much more horrific truth.

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• 57:44Speaker 02

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• 58:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And this is content warning for like violence against children. Again, it's not verified or documented, but when I give you the stats, I'm very surprised.

• 58:24Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, and knowing some of the stuff that has come out that is true. We can assume that there's some truth to some things.

• 58:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So the subjects in the Montauk Project were often children, often kidnapped and tortured in horrific manners. So there is this, it's called the Montauk Boys. And I think it's like a name that they've given themselves. They were the victims of the Montauk Project. And I think they-

• 58:49Corinne Vien?

  It was all boys?

• 58:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It was mostly boys. There's very few reports of women. Like, I think there was like, in all of my research, there was like one little sentence of girls and women who were taken to be a part of this were like manipulated to be like spies. So I don't know why it was men specifically. But some of these supposed torture tactics have come forth in the years since Preston's discovery and reports. And it is said that between January of 1971 and August of 1983, a twelve and a half year period, some 300,000 children were kidnapped, tested, and tortured. And only 1% of these children survived. I do get more into the stats in a minute, but I looked it up because I was like, that's a lot of kids.

• 59:32Corinne Vien?

  I know, that makes me feel like I don't believe it now.

• 59:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But guess how many kids were reported missing every year during this time? One million. Between 1971 and 1983, every year. So 1971, a million kids were reported missing, around.

• 59:46Corinne Vien?

  In America?

• 59:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  In America, just in the US. Some of these are runaways, some of them like would be found later, but a million

• 59:54Corinne Vien?

  Are abducted by a parent.

• 59:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Children reports.

• 59:57Corinne Vien?

  Oh my god, this is horrifying. Oh, this is gonna like trigger so much parent anxiety in me.

• 1:00:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I know. But like, a lot of people, when they hear that number, they do think like it's not true. But when you look at how many missing children-

• 1:00:08Corinne Vien?

  Then you look at the actual real stats, and you're like, oh my-

• 1:00:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Like 300,000 is actually nothing in compared to the numbers of missing children-

• 1:00:15Corinne Vien?

  Every year.

• 1:00:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So they are what are today known as the Montauk Boys. And a lot of information that follows is from a documentary called The Montauk Chronicles that came out in 2014. According to various sources and whistleblowers who have since come forward claiming knowledge of the Montauk Project, those in charge knew that they needed subjects for their studies. So they began picking up boys and men off the streets in Long Island and New York, mostly runaways, addicts, or people on the fringes of society, because-

• 1:00:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  They were less likely to be looked for.

• 1:00:48Corinne Vien?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:00:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  They would take these boys to a secret facility that operated beneath the Montauk airbase, and they would run various experiments on them, all in an attempt to achieve and study mind control. They would be thrown into cement rooms and basically tortured. They were starved, drowned, brought to near death, because the goal was to shatter the mind and split it from the soul. So like bringing these people to the verge of death would make them more vulnerable and more easily manipulated.

• 1:01:14Corinne Vien?

  Like the OA?

• 1:01:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yes. They basically wanted to break the psyche so they could reprogram the brain to their desires. Apparently, over time, the experiments evolved, and so too did their understanding of what kind of subject worked best, which led them to like wanting kids with like psychic abilities or certain DNA and genetics, which meant that they had a more calculated desire and would kidnap specific children and take them to the base. Yeah, and I looked it up. So between 1971 and 1983, unfortunately, an exact number doesn't exist because comprehensive tracking systems didn't exist until the early 1980s. And I think honestly, there's like the like main missing children's system was created in 1984, which was like the year after this project is said to have ended.

• 1:02:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Just think the timing is interesting. But yeah, 1 million missing children annually in the United States. So with these new subjects came new studies and techniques. There was use of LSD, torture, the chair. Some claimed a sort of possession where it felt like another person was taking control of their body. There was one test that had one requirement: bring the subject to ultimate fear and then kill them to extract what was reported as the adrenochrome from the penal gland. Apparently, it created a psychedelic drug that could be used for mind control. But this is a conspiracy within a conspiracy because those don't really line up as scientific terms. Yes, there's an adrenochrome, but that forms naturally after like exposure to air, and it can be mass-produced synthetically.

• 1:02:44Corinne Vien?

  That's what I was just thinking.

• 1:02:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:45Corinne Vien?

  It's like you can't, you have to kill someone to extract it.

• 1:02:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 1:02:48Corinne Vien?

  It doesn't just exist.

• 1:02:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And that

• 1:02:50Corinne Vien?

  Either you can't create it synthetically, or like a version of it doesn't exist in like some plant somewhere.

• 1:02:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right. And then the penal gland in reality is responsible for producing melatonin, which regulates the sleep-wake cycle. But it is also in some traditions known as the third eye, because it's like, even though it's in our brain, it's sensitive to light the way our eyes are. So like, maybe they were actually doing something else with that. I don't know.

• 1:03:13Corinne Vien?

  I feel like we could have saved a lot of time by introducing them to ayahuasca.

• 1:03:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  When they were doing LSD too. But either way, this part, it's like, this is one of the like, least considered true parts of the conspiracy. Apparently, it's like a made up thing in the movie Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas too. So like, people are like, hmm, sus. What's real? But of the upwards of 300,000 unwilling and unconsenting test subjects, it is said that only 1% of the Montauk boys survived. The rest were either killed or died during these studies slash tortures. Bodies were said to have been cremated, decomposed with lime, or dumped in the ocean. And then there was like, there's a claim that if we were to actually dig up beneath the Montauk airbase, they would find the equivalent of like the Paris catacombs.

• 1:03:58Corinne Vien?

  Damn.

• 1:03:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Researchers claimed that they were trying to control mankind and keep it safe for humanity. And apparently, over the years, they ran mood-altering tests on people in nearby areas.

• 1:04:10Corinne Vien?

  Wait, sorry, I need to interrupt. No one's tried to do LiDAR in the area to see, like, I feel like that would be like proof of if there actually is tunnels, if there are tunnels or like people buried under there.

• 1:04:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, there are for sure tunnels. I mean, this was an airbase with tunnels.

• 1:04:25Corinne Vien?

  But like, I'm thinking about like when we did all the research on the conjuring and they did the LiDAR and they could see like literally caskets and like stuff like that.

• 1:04:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I wonder if it's, well, so this land is now a state park. Like, you have the pay admission. It's monitored heavily. Like, I don't, like, I don't think you could just like, bring your machine, bring your, bring your LiDAR scanner, which is also a very expensive equipment. But yeah, so like, over the years, all this is like unraveling. While Preston is uncovering these memories in 1984, apparently during the real experience, he's realizing there's dark things happening at this project. By 1983, he had really learned the truth of oncomings. And there are other people he mentions that were involved, like, a man named Al Bealik, he'll come in more with other stories, but

• 1:05:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  apparently Preston tried to shut the program down, but he was silenced and even threatened and held at gunpoint. Like, he is not in charge. He is following orders.

• 1:05:18Corinne Vien?

  Who is in charge?

• 1:05:20Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  The government.

• 1:05:21Corinne Vien?

  But who?

• 1:05:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So it got to a point where he and a group of other members ultimately decided to take matters in their own hands and come up with like a contingency plan. Like should things go awry, they were gonna shut it down from within. So Preston, Duncan, Al Bealik, and some other members met at like a motel and came up with a plan. And on August 5th, 1983, the team was given a directive to run their transmitter nonstop. And something wild happened on August 12th. Again, like there's, it's hard to like imagine this, so I'm just picturing Stranger Things. But so they're in this lab, their transmitter is running. I imagine there's like the little like

• 1:06:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  black holey like entrance to the upside down that exists in, in season five of Stranger Things. And all of a sudden, something appears in this portal, a ship. The USS Eldridge from the Philadelphia experiment from 40 years prior. So something from 1943 shows up in the image of this portal. And they can literally see Duncan Cameron, cause he was a member of the crew. And his brother in this portal. Again, I can only visualize it as like-

• 1:06:36Corinne Vien?

  Stolen from the ship in their time period?

• 1:06:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So according to Nichols, this wasn't the ship physically entering Montauk, but an image or manifestation appearing through what he described as a temporal rift. And as this is happening, he's like, we are fucking with space-time continuum.

• 1:06:51Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This is not okay. On top of the multitude of people being tortured and-

• 1:06:56Corinne Vien?

  And like your own military too, like your own-

• 1:06:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 1:07:00Corinne Vien?

  An entire ship.

• 1:07:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Ship. And Duncan from 1943, they can like see him on the ship. But Duncan in 1983 is sitting in the chair, connected to the machinery. And Duncan is a part of the contingency plan. Actually, he is the crux of the contingency plan. And they all are like, it's time, do this plan. Basically, the belief was that if thought powered the system, couldn't thought also shut it down. So they were planning to have Duncan use his thought to shut the whole thing down. But in this moment, when Duncan is realizing his self from the past is in this fucking rift, fear comes up. So it combines like this fear with this thought of shutting it down, literally manifests a terrifying monster.

• 1:07:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And it was in this moment on August 12th, 1983, that Duncan Cameron produced a monster from thought that turned into a physical manifestation. This monster was covered in thick, matted hair. Legend says it was somewhere between nine and 30 feet tall, though Preston, when he saw it, believes it was like nine to 10 feet tall. It was covered in hair. It was hungry and it was nasty. And this thing starts wreaking havoc in the buildings. It is destroying things. It is breaking things. It is like, like a Demodog or Demogorgon, like literally destroying the lab. Preston allegedly went up to his higher up and was like, "We need to shut it down. We need to shut it down." And his higher up like took out a gun and was like, "You fix this without ruining our equipment."

• 1:08:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So Preston, and again, like, there's more details on like the science of this, but basically, they try to like get things under control. They do everything they can to turn off the power. And in the past, when they would like shut things down, because again, the chair works with the machinery to create the physical manifestation. And in the past, when they would shut the equipment down, the physical manifestation would disappear. But the energy that Duncan Cameron was putting out and creating this monster, when they turned the machine off, this monster continued to wreak havoc.

• 1:09:04Corinne Vien?

  He didn't need his sensory deprivation tank anymore.

• 1:09:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Exactly. And it wasn't until Preston went and cut the actual equipment apart, that the transmitter turned off and the beast faded back into the ether. But do you want to see what this Montauk monster looked like? And is like my absolute favorite part of this story? And it's a conspiracy within a conspiracy? What does this remind you of?

• 1:09:28Corinne Vien?

  A Bigfoot. Oh, my God. You know what? When you were saying that he was hairy,

• 1:09:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I know.

• 1:09:32Corinne Vien?

  Immediately, I was like, well, it was Bigfoot because he's an interdimensional being. And that wasn't just a physical manifestation. It was just opening up.

• 1:09:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Like, literally, it was a time rift.

• 1:09:42Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. To one of the creatures.

• 1:09:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:45Corinne Vien?

  Worlds. That is Bigfoot. That is literally Bigfoot.

• 1:09:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  People have, like, added a conspiracy that, like, Bigfoot came to Earth through the Montauk Project.

• 1:09:54Corinne Vien?

  No, he was seen far before.

• 1:09:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I know. But then there's-

• 1:09:57Corinne Vien?

  As a Bigfoot enthusiast and researcher myself, I can. But also, what is time? Because they also went back in the 1940s and stuff.

• 1:10:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Exactly. But-

• 1:10:05Corinne Vien?

  That's wild.

• 1:10:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:07Corinne Vien?

  Also, I'm confused. So, they had the big radio wave tower.

• 1:10:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:10:13Corinne Vien?

  And when that is on, it affects the psychic ability and blocks it out. Why couldn't they just turn that on?

• 1:10:20Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's what's confusing. So I think, like, what they were doing with that frequency was separate. Like, that, like, 410 to 420 Hz was, like, doing something to help with, like, mind control of the subjects on the base.

• 1:10:33Corinne Vien?

  Hmm.

• 1:10:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And there is more about it in the book, but, like, I think that frequency makes people more susceptible or something.

• 1:10:40Corinne Vien?

  Huh.

• 1:10:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I don't know.

• 1:10:41Corinne Vien?

  So Bigfoot was in the lab. They destroy, take apart the equipment to make Bigfoot-

• 1:10:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yes.

• 1:10:47Corinne Vien?

  Return back to the ether.

• 1:10:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  His, his other dimension.

• 1:10:51Corinne Vien?

  Yes.

• 1:10:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  The impact of August 12th, 1983, did achieve what Preston and his comrades had intended. Not in the way that they thought it would happen, but what followed was basically silence. Operations at the Montauk Air Base ceased immediately. It was not like a systematic shutdown. It was abrupt. Buildings were sealed and abandoned, and it must have been at this time that Preston's memories were deliberately altered. In less than one year's time, Preston would show up to the abandoned airbase and get drawn back into the truth. What happened to the subjects that were being studied? That's a question that we do not know the answer to. Some believe that they were released back into civilization as a sort of Manchurian candidate, like, secret assassins that could be activated at any time.

• 1:11:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Others believe the Montauk Project never truly ended, but was simply moved elsewhere, which is why- The documents have not been released to the public and it has not been declassified because it is still ongoing and operating elsewhere. But between in 1986 and 1989, Preston was uncovering the truth and his true memories, and he knew he couldn't stay silent. So in July of 1986, Preston spoke at the United States Psychotronics Association in Chicago. And apparently, so like, remember 1984, Duncan Cameron shows up, programmed to kill Preston? And as they're unraveling all these things, like, they all start to believe that they are for sure gonna be killed. That if Duncan didn't do his operation, who knows how many others were programmed to find them and kill them?

• 1:12:17Corinne Vien?

  Right.

• 1:12:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So they're like, we just need to say this and tell someone, so that in case like, we do end up dead or missing, people are like, oh, remember that thing he said?

• 1:12:29Corinne Vien?

  That's suspicious.

• 1:12:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. So, he talks about it in 1986. And then, I guess, he had spoken to a senator who was like, trying to do his own investigation, but like, the investigation kept like, getting shut down, or like, not going anywhere. So the senator is basically like, if you wanna go public with the story, go for it. So in 1992, Preston decides to publish a book with everything he believed to be true, even though there is no physical documentation to prove it. So the book was The Montauk Project, the same book I read for the research of this episode. It was co-authored by Peter Moon, who, Peter Moon really helped frame this story in like, a, one, a very digestible way, and two, like, made it, like, I think if Preston had done

• 1:13:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  it himself, it probably would have been very convoluted, but Peter Moon was able to like, cohesively tell the story and shine a light on how this is a much larger part of secret history and government studies. But when it got released, it kinda like, if the government is trying to like, keep it quiet, they didn't really have to do much, because everyone read this book and they're like, Preston's a nut. Like, there's no evidence to back it up.

• 1:13:39Corinne Vien?

  It could totally read as mental.

• 1:13:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  He's just a deluded, individual, yes. So they didn't have to do much to, to like, make the public believe it was a fake story. It all relied on recovered memories.

• 1:13:53Corinne Vien?

  Oh, which is such a bummer to be, you know what, just because he saw Bigfoot, I'd believe. Like duh.

• 1:14:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I mean, I do think there's a lot of elements here that do exist and are real and did happen. But because there's so many layers of like fake memories and recovered memories. I do believe that some of it maybe is not true.

• 1:14:14Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. How do they know what's?

• 1:14:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  How could you possibly know?

• 1:14:17Corinne Vien?

  Doesn't it all kind of seem like an illusion?

• 1:14:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right. So that being said, after it's public-

• 1:14:22Corinne Vien?

  And has anyone seen or spoken to the other people?

• 1:14:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  A couple.

• 1:14:26Corinne Vien?

  Okay.

• 1:14:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So after-

• 1:14:27Corinne Vien?

  They exist. They're real.

• 1:14:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  They, well, if you want to believe they exist, they exist. Again, there's no, they have no evidence of their experiences either. And there's one person I'll talk about in a second. But so it's public side, it's public, this story. And while most people are like, hmm, it's fictional. There are many people who come forward with their own memories. People who worked near the base who had strange experiences, they start to come forward. Others who have fragmented memories start to come forward and it led to dozens of other stories. Giving way to the conspiracy theory that is now today, the Montauk Project. One of the most notable witnesses who came forward after the release of the book is a man named Stuart Swordlow.

• 1:15:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And Stuart's story is wild, but it like both gives credibility and kind of discredits the theory in ways. But I also understand it because like he's deeply traumatized. So-

• 1:15:19Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:20Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  When Stuart Swordlow was young, he started to see shadows on the walls of his room. It always started the same shadows. And then the metal blinds on his windows would start to vibrate. And then he would get this sinking feeling that he was not alone in his room. He couldn't see what was there, but he knew something was there. He would suddenly become paralyzed, unable to move or scream, but he would feel his body being like lifted off of his bed. And moved and transported out his window.

• 1:15:47Corinne Vien?

  It's like an alien abduction.

• 1:15:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So his experiences are very much alien abduction like. And at first he tried to forget the experiences, but it happened so often that even as a young child, he was terrified of everything. He, in the documentary, Montauk Chronicles, he says that like he didn't know happiness as a child. Like he has no memory of happiness. He was constantly scared.

• 1:16:07Corinne Vien?

  That is so sad.

• 1:16:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And at some point in his childhood, his family moved to Montauk, I think it's 1970. And that summer, his dad's like, let's go drive out to the Montauk Lighthouse, which is on like the land that Montauk Air Base is. So as they're driving there, Stuart gets this overwhelming feeling that he couldn't quite describe, like he had been there before. And as they drive past the entrance to the Montauk Air Base and Stuart's dad goes, "Oh, there's the Montauk Air Base." Stuart just knows he's been there before. But he knows it doesn't make sense, so he doesn't tell anyone. He's like a child.

• 1:16:43Corinne Vien?

  His subconscious.

• 1:16:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yes.

• 1:16:45Corinne Vien?

  Psychically, he's been there.

• 1:16:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So.

• 1:16:47Corinne Vien?

  His consciousness was abducted.

• 1:16:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yes. And so he kept quiet. But for years and years of his life, he endured countless abductions. They always began the same, shadows, blinds, paralysis, levitating, and then, next thing he knew, he would be placed on a table, strapped down, surrounded by what he today thinks are aliens, although he believes that they were constructs made by humans, like that they weren't actually real. Like, it was like what they wanted him to see.

• 1:17:15Corinne Vien?

  Oh, interesting.

• 1:17:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I mean, there's so much mind manipulation here.

• 1:17:18Corinne Vien?

  I know. It's like, I can't, but like, how do they control what is seen when the people in the chair are the ones.

• 1:17:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Or was it rewritten?

• 1:17:25Corinne Vien?

  Making things.

• 1:17:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Was his memory rewritten?

• 1:17:28Corinne Vien?

  Again, it all comes back to who's in charge here. Who's calling the shots about?

• 1:17:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I know.

• 1:17:32Corinne Vien?

  Who gets mind wiped and who doesn't?

• 1:17:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I don't know. So he'd be placed on this table, strapped down, and he felt like he was naked and he would feel pressure and like needles on his bodies. And he would describe feeling, and this reminds me of a C-section, like it felt like things were inside his body touching his organs.

• 1:17:51Corinne Vien?

  I hate that.

• 1:17:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And he knew that whatever they were doing, he was not consenting to it, and that others were being tested on as well. He also said every experiment was different. Sometimes he would be put back in his room and hours would have passed. Other times he would be put back and minutes had passed. And when he got older, he realized he would be gone for weeks at a time. But when he would be back, it would be like as if no time passed. And so he knew that whatever was happening, someone was bending time. And manipulating time. Because he knew whatever study and experiment he did was like a week-long period, if not more. But when he would go back, it'd be like nothing happened. So like, his parents never see him missing, even though he was missing for weeks.

• 1:18:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  After years of brutal experimentation, Stuart Swirlo swears he was able to time travel, and that was he was recruited for multiple missions. That he was sent back through time to retrieve DNA samples of historical and biblical figures with the purpose to create clones. Which that part's like.

• 1:18:49Corinne Vien?

  That's. Like, why?

• 1:18:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I don't know.

• 1:18:53Corinne Vien?

  This does, though, make me think of the people who say they like go to sleep at night. And then suddenly they live an entire like half a lifetime somewhere else. And then they wake up and they're like, wait, what just happened? Like, I'm mourning my partner, I'm mourning my family, I'm mourning my kids. Like, I was supposed to pick them up from school and now I'm just like in this other life. I just woke up.

• 1:19:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, there's so many more questions than answers. But apparently, after all of these years and years of constant experiences, from like nineteen seventy all the way to August twelfth, nineteen eighty-three, all of a sudden, he said it felt like he had been unplugged. On August twelfth, nineteen eighty-three, what happened on August twelfth, nineteen eighty-three? The Monstok Monster was released on the base and Preston and his like comrades like cut the wires, literally unplugging the system. He never could make any sense of it until he read Preston's book. And that's when he came forward with his experiences and has since developed his own program for others who he believes have been victims of mind control. But this is where things get into the world of like not credible.

• 1:20:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  He and his wife believe that this is not just a military experiment, but was an act of the Illuminati, who is trying to create compliant individuals and condition people to accept authority without question. And they're very, very big on the Illuminati proponent.

• 1:20:15Corinne Vien?

  That's interesting. I'm not buying into that one.

• 1:20:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's why I'm like, but I think it's like with so many repressed memories, just not trusting anyone or anything and not knowing what's true and feeling like there has to be something so much bigger.

• 1:20:30Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And it feels impossible for our government to have been doing all of these things by themselves. But I think they have to believe it's something bigger.

• 1:20:39Corinne Vien?

  I just don't think it was.

• 1:20:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Insert the Illuminati. Um, yeah, there are other testimonies, like a man named Alfred Bealik, who came forward to later claim that the Montauk Project was not the beginning, but it was a continuation of a failed project many years prior. He also claimed that through Project Montauk, he was able to travel to Mars and even traveled in time to see ancient civilizations that live on Mars. Others have come forward anonymously. There's um, someone in the Montauk Chronicles that's like, you know, a voice altered, no visual appearance that they called James, who was terrified that the government is going to try to kill him for speaking out. But he details being selected through a gifted program at school and taken on a field trip to the Montauk Lighthouse, but was instead taken into a secret bunker and tested on.

• 1:21:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And this brought forward, because I've been seeing on TikTok, like, do you remember the gifted and talented programs, like GATE program in school?

• 1:21:33Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  There's all these people coming forward and being like, I was like tested on and people like remote viewing tested on them and like all these things. And now people are trying to attach, like, is that part of the Montauk Project? Were some of these kids then taken on field trips?

• 1:21:48Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And James talks about a time where he thought it was his dad telling him to get into a car. But his friend was like, that is not your dad, that is not your dad, that's not your dad. And as they were driving away, he like looked back and he realized it wasn't his dad. But like, he swore it was his dad at first. Like, his mind was being fucked with.

• 1:22:09Corinne Vien?

  Ooh, this is so creepy. How many people were a part of the GATE program? I don't think we actually had it at my school, but I remember it like being a thing and hearing about it.

• 1:22:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, and I also think about how easy it would be to do that to children, because every parent wants to believe that their child is gifted. And if they're told by this program that came through school, like, your child is gifted, we want to bring them a part of this program. Like, only the select few are accepted into this program. Like, you'd be like, oh, my child is so special.

• 1:22:36Corinne Vien?

  Would you believe it if I told you I actually got put in advanced math in middle school? It was like me and five other kids.

• 1:22:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I believe that.

• 1:22:43Corinne Vien?

  Well, I tapped out at that level.

• 1:22:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We like, that's where you peaked.

• 1:22:48Corinne Vien?

  We didn't do any remote viewing. We were put in like this uh, storage supply closet and just like giving them next grade up of math.

• 1:22:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  In the storage supply closet.

• 1:22:58Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, it was really stuffy.

• 1:23:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So now is where we talk about whether this was real or not. Is this a conspiracy? Is this a real government secret? I mean, I feel like there's multiple thoughts here, like, yes, it's all true. I mean, like, the government, we know the government has done tests very similar to this. Why not? Why couldn't this be true? Apparently Duncan Cameron has had like various brain scans on his brain and he's the one who like got all this like electro-

• 1:23:26Corinne Vien?

  He did the manifestation the best.

• 1:23:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Apparently in brain scans, it appears like there's no oxygen going to his brain. And he appears brain dead on all scans from like the waves basically damaging his brain tissue. But he's, you know, doing his thing.

• 1:23:45Corinne Vien?

  We really don't know as much as we think we do about the human brain.

• 1:23:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, they do not. And if this is true, maybe it hasn't been publicized or declassified yet because it is ongoing. People are still being put through tests in other places. Just, just because the Montauk base was shut down does not mean that others were.

• 1:24:03Corinne Vien?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:24:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Maybe it exists in the basement of the Pentagon.

• 1:24:07Corinne Vien?

  I need to find that video.

• 1:24:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But if it is true, that means hundreds, if not thousands of people's memories were wiped. And if that's true, why isn't memory, like, why aren't people using that memory control more often? Unless we are all being controlled.

• 1:24:27Corinne Vien?

  But also if we go based on Duncan and him seeing himself and his brother on the ship from forty years prior, are all of the test subjects from modern day? Or are they pulled from many, many different decades? So it's almost impossible to piece everything together because they don't live at the same time. Or they're just, you know, one person's eight and the other person's fifty six now. But they were both being tested on when they were seven.

• 1:24:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, it's it's just like confusing and there's no way for us to know like I don't think because of the like mass size of the supposed experiment. It's not like MKUltra, which was, yes, it was used like, like not, it wasn't a great experiment. But like, I feel like it was contained and wrapped up. That like documents were declassified, but this feels massive and ongoing. I don't know. It just feels like.

• 1:25:24Corinne Vien?

  Again, who was in charge?

• 1:25:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We don't know. There's also the belief that it's entirely made up that Preston, who loved electromagnetics and like radio waves, like told a story. But if it is made up, then shouldn't he get credit for Stranger Things? Because he basically wrote Stranger Things before Stranger Things was made.

• 1:25:45Corinne Vien?

  He needs a some sort of kickback.

• 1:25:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right. In the documentary Montauk Chronicles, like the end of it, he's like, I don't necessarily care if other people believe me. I believe what I am saying is true. Like I, I'm not lying. And I believe he believes what he's saying is true.

• 1:26:01Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But also with so many layers of memory wiping, how do we know that what he thinks is true is true?

• 1:26:09Corinne Vien?

  Right. It's weird because it's like, even if you, even if all of this is true, what is the warning here? How do you stop anything? How do you, like, how do you even know what's going on? When it's going on? Like there's, it feels like there's no like protection. There's no like, we have to do this to stop this or to control this or whatever. It's just like, oh my God, this is happening. And then I'm also thinking back to my grandpa's own experience being tested on with LSD.

• 1:26:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:33Corinne Vien?

  And when he talks about it and when he talked about what happened to him, even though he knows he was on LSD, when he describes it, it's as if it actually happened. Like, and then I did this and then I saw this and it's like, but you didn't actually become an ant and crawl under the rug.

• 1:26:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  You were drugged.

• 1:26:51Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  You were on drugs.

• 1:26:52Corinne Vien?

  Right.

• 1:26:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Which is the power of the mind. So like, is mind control possible? Probably that is a version of mind control. Where like you make someone believe something that didn't actually like really happen.

• 1:27:04Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But today, Montauk is this sought after beach town. Its population shifts drastically with the season. Quiet in winter, packed in the summer. It's the location of one of my personal favorite Bravo shows, Summer House.

• 1:27:20Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  As for Camp Hero in the Montauk Air Base, it is the Camp Hero State Park. A place where you can visit today. I think it's like $8 admission. But a lot of the standing structures are closed off and off limits. The massive radar tower still dominates the landscape. I don't know. I don't have the technology to tell if it's putting out sound waves still. Regardless, it remains a frickin' mystery. And as we come to the end of this episode, I think it's very clear how this conspiracy, whether true or not, inspired the show Stranger Things. And it was fun to like research and like learn more about the origins.

• 1:27:53Corinne Vien?

  All the connections. It reminds me of so many different shows too. I feel like it's hard. It's like, do all these shows pull inspiration from something like this? Or do those thoughts?

• 1:28:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This exists in the universal consciousness?

• 1:28:05Corinne Vien?

  Right.

• 1:28:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I do for sure believe that this, I mean, it literally was originally called Montauk.

• 1:28:09Corinne Vien?

  This one is Stranger Things, but I'm thinking about like the OA and like some of, some of those sort of things.

• 1:28:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  What I can say for a fact is this. Leading up to the supposed Montauk Project. They are very real and now declassified studies that the government was in fact running. Like MKUltra and Stargate. The government has admitted to these decades after the fact. So the question isn't whether secret government experiments happened. The question is how many are there that we still don't fully understand? And as Al Bielek said, or Bielek, "Montauk wasn't the beginning. It was the continuation of another failed experiment. An experiment that happened many years earlier. An experiment that involved a ship, a vanished crew,

• 1:28:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  and an even deeper conspiracy of time travel, teleportation, and secrecy. The Philadelphia Project." Which Corinne will cover next week.

• 1:29:06Corinne Vien?

  Dun dun dun. It's crazy.

• 1:29:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Ooh, it is so crazy. And it's also like tin foil hat, not trusting the government.

• 1:29:15Corinne Vien?

  I don't need a ten foot high to say that I don't trust.

• 1:29:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, that was like in, in the, in the documentary Montauk Chronicles, like that's like kind of the message that the filmmaker wants to like portray is that we should always be questioning our government. We have evidence of our governments throughout history, not just the US. Like literally every government has lied to its people.

• 1:29:37Corinne Vien?

  Right. And it's like, these are just what they're admitting to.

• 1:29:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Exactly.

• 1:29:40Corinne Vien?

  The declassified is what they're willing to share. They're giving crumbs to the people to be like, oh, look, see, we'll eventually find out everything.

• 1:29:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But will we?

• 1:29:50Corinne Vien?

  No.

• 1:29:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Unless we're taken beneath the Montauk airbase into the secret bunkers and strapped into the Montauk chair and travel through time and get all the answers.

• 1:30:00Corinne Vien?

  And then Bigfoot comes through and saves you and says, I won't let them experiment on you anymore. Let me return you to your body.

• 1:30:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:06Corinne Vien?

  And we'll go garden in your backyard when you wake up.

• 1:30:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Bigfoot was destroying the base because it was bad.

• 1:30:11Corinne Vien?

  Yes.

• 1:30:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:12Corinne Vien?

  So upset with what he was seeing.

• 1:30:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:14Corinne Vien?

  I would be too.

• 1:30:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Same.

• 1:30:16Corinne Vien?

  Okay. So I have two short emails to read because I was like, there's so much telepathy and everything like that involved that I was like, I want to find like a couple of examples of people today.

• 1:30:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:28Corinne Vien?

  Who have kids experiencing potentially some telepathic communication. Okay. This first one's from Chelsea. I have a three and a half year old daughter and my son is turning one in two days. They're the best of friends and I swear they're traveling souls. They definitely have been brother and sister in many lifetimes.

• 1:30:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Very sweet.

• 1:30:46Corinne Vien?

  Today I was giving my daughter Charlotte a bath while Malcolm, my son, was napping in the other room. The house was silent other than the sound of bath time. I was plucking my chin hairs, thanks kids, while Charlotte played mermaid tale. When she looks up at me and says, Mama, Malcolm is awake. I didn't hear him crying, which she always does when he wakes up. So I checked the monitor and sure enough, he's awake. He's just sitting on the floor bed, looking around. After we finished our routine, I was sitting with them in the living room and I asked Charlotte how she knew Malcolm was awake. She responds without hesitation. "I saw a picture in my head." A picture in her head. Was that clairvoyance? Thought you would enjoy this. Much love, Chelsea.

• 1:31:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And this is another sign that like as a child, and this is also sadly why I think they targeted so many children in the believed Montauk Project.

• 1:31:35Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Is because they're way more open.

• 1:31:37Corinne Vien?

  Right. Okay. And I have one more, one more to share. Hello, Girls, Ghouls, Leia and the extended podcast family. My name is Christine and you can use my name. I have a weird ability to connect with certain people and I've done it since I was a child. The first instance that I know of was when I was really young, maybe four or five. It was Christmas time and my mom was thinking about what to get me for Christmas. She'd seen a chair of some sort and was wondering in her head what color I would want. From the backseat of the car, I say, "I want a purple one."

• 1:32:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, chills.

• 1:32:07Corinne Vien?

  We have a very strong connection, which can be a real pain sometimes, especially when I would try to get away with things when I was younger. It still happens frequently, even like showing up wearing similar outfits or the same color shirt, even though we don't live in the same house anymore. Another connection I have is with my best friend. We can read each other like crazy. She lives in another state and we've only met like three times in person. And two of those were just for a few hours as she's incarcerated. She's called me when I'm in the middle of a really bad day, knowing something's wrong, when she would have no way of knowing.

• 1:32:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Wow.

• 1:32:38Corinne Vien?

  I can tell her mood before she even speaks on the phone. And one big instance in particular is when my ex broke up with me. She called me shortly after it happened and just knew. And neither of us can really lie to the other as we always just know. With spooky vibes, Christine.

• 1:32:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I mean, I, I wonder if you have this with like Brian or like people in your life. I feel like you and I could even have it, but like when you're sitting next to someone and you can hear their thoughts. You can't hear specifically what they're thinking, but you were like, it's so loud, like the energy is so loud. Like, I feel like that just proves that the ability to telepathically communicate does exist.

• 1:33:15Corinne Vien?

  Or like even when the conversation, like a conversation pivots or like just a subject so incredibly unrelated to anything else that was being talked about is brought up. And you just were thinking the exact same thing like a second earlier. Yeah, that I feel like happens a lot. I also feel like, you know, people always say like mother's intuition or whatever, even when I'm not in the same place. There's been like only twice where we, Brian and I have gone away for weddings and my parents have watched Noah. And I wake up 30 seconds before Noah does. I always wake up before he does.

• 1:33:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It also makes so much sense because he literally was connected to you.

• 1:33:53Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Like you grew him inside of your body.

• 1:33:56Corinne Vien?

  The other thing is like with my dad, who didn't grow me inside of his body.

• 1:33:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Sure.

• 1:34:00Corinne Vien?

  Like when my dad taught, like my dad is the king of out of context, picking up in a sentence in the middle of what would have been a conversation. It's been happening in his head, but not out loud. And it's just like said the most random thing or talks about the most random person. And my mom and my brother are always like, what are you talking about? But I am right there with him. I'm in the same conversation.

• 1:34:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, you and your dad are like twins, so.

• 1:34:24Corinne Vien?

  That's true. We look exactly the same. I'm Bill with a W.

• 1:34:29Corinne Vien?

  If you want to see what I'm gonna look like in my sixties, just look up Bill P. N.

• 1:34:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, because you're gonna shave your head.

• 1:34:35Corinne Vien?

  Maybe, I don't know. We'll see.

• 1:34:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Damn. Well, you tell us, do you believe in the Montauk Project and is it still ongoing? Email us at two girls, my ghost podcast at gmail dot com with all of your paranormal stories and spooky happenings and we'll read them. Join us on Patreon, YouTube, all the things. We love you.

• 1:34:56Corinne Vien?

  I'm like so lost in thought about this whole subject. It's our deep dive.

• 1:34:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We need to decompress. Yes, we love you all.

• 1:35:02Corinne Vien?

  Shout out to Jamie for editing and producing our podcast and Emma for producing and helping with socials and everything else. Thank you to our team. And we love all of you. And we will see you on the other side.

• 1:35:20Speaker 03

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