#434 - FBI Occult Expert: Breakaway Civilizations, Antarctica & 1800's Airships | Walter Bosley

Watch every episode ad-free & uncensored on Patreon: https://patreon.com/dannyjones Walter Bosley is a former FBI counterintelligence specialist, Investigator of historical occult mysteries, author of pulp fiction novels and a screenwriter who has appeared on History Channel's 'Ancient Aliens'. SPONSORS https://whiterabbitenergy.com/?ref=DJP - Use code DJP for 20% off. EPISODE LINKS https://www.lulu.com/search?contributor=WALTER+BOSLEY *NEW* DJP MERCH https://dannyjonespodcast.com Get paid to make clips from the show: https://discord.com/invite/dannyjones FOLLOW DANNY JONES https://www.instagram.com/dannyjones https://twitter.com/jonesdanny OUTLINE 00:00 - The Sonora Aero Club & 1800s flying machines 07:23 - Charles Dellschau's journals 11:23 - Prototype of the Nazi Bell (Die Glocke) for flying machines 20:09 - Description of 1800s airships 24:35 - 1890s airship mystery 32:26 - Extraterrestrials have been here 36:04 - They're hiding the truth of remote viewing 48:40 - Walter's mentor & the "Blue Lady" 54:45 - Walter's first government application & early career 01:04:01 - Paul Bennewitz & government disinfo agents 01:07:42 - Civil War Era black budget flying machines 01:21:25 - Joseph Farrell's take on aliens & UFO phenomenon 01:27:45 - How individuals can learn the truth of UFOs 01:32:36 - Alleged Antarctica discovery in 1960 01:40:03 - Explaining secrets of the moon landing 01:47:57 - Operation Paperclip was a Trojan Horse 01:59:00 - NASA's secret bases 02:03:42 - 1903 airship that tried to go to Mars 02:06:11 - The gap that suggests a breakaway civilization 02:13:38 - Biggest unanswered question of Manson Murders 02:22:08 - The 33rd latitude line & Disneyland's carousel 02:35:11 - Karmic frequencies 02:39:49 - The murder investigation that got Walter threatened 02:53:45 - Harry Longabuagh (the Sundance Kid connection) 03:01:21 - Harry Houdini's death Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:37Danny Jones?

  Thanks for coming, Walter.

• 0:38Speaker 02

  Thanks for having me.

• 0:39Danny Jones?

  I first heard about you through Catherine Austin Fitz, I believe. And she was talking about this secret breakaway civilization. And you wrote about this Nymza group, which was like the original, or like this is, you write about the origins of this speculative breakaway civilization.

• 0:59Speaker 02

  You know, it emerged in a funny way for me. I had been aware of the 1890s airship mystery for years. You know, most of us have, if you're into UFOs at all, or any weird stuff. I had heard about this mysterious Sonora Arrow Club from a friend of mine, Greg Bishop. You probably have heard of him. He's written an excellent book called, years ago, called Project Beta, about the Paul Bennewitz affair.

• 1:29Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah. I wasn't familiar with that book, but I'm aware of the Paul Bennewitz affair.

• 1:34Speaker 02

  Oh, yes. Yeah, I highly recommend it. That's the book to read on that issue. And when I was researching my Empire of the Wheel book, doing the research for that, a gentleman's name popped up. He was arrested on the train during the middle of all this mystery. Now, this was in 1915. Several mysterious deaths were occurring in San Bernardino, and it looked like there may have been a serial killer, or some sociopath on the loose. And

• 2:14Speaker 02

  this young 24-year-old man by the name of Frank Rosasco is arrested on the train, and he's committed to the county hospital. He's arrested first and then committed because he's diagnosed as being dangerously paranoid. So here you have this potential murder mystery. You have this young man arrested on the train because he's having a nervous breakdown. He's losing his mind, and he's saying, you know, that, "Oh, I didn't hurt her. I didn't hurt her." And there had been a woman found dead, which is the center of the mystery. Well, a couple of days after he was arrested, the papers report that he was released into the

• 2:53Speaker 02

  custody of these unidentified friends from Sonora. And I thought, okay, and let's check his name and see if, you know, they came from Sonora, Mexico. Nothing there. Then I quickly discovered that the name was Italian, not Spanish. And long story short, I discovered that he's from a very prominent Italian ranching family in Sonora, California, the home of the Sonora Arrow Club, which is at the heart of the airship mysteries. And I thought, how is the airship mystery connected to this 1915?

• 3:32Danny Jones?

  1915?

• 3:32Speaker 02

  1915. Yeah. And so I made a note of that, and I dug into the Sonora Arrow Club lore, so to speak, because no one's quite sure. We only have one source on the Sonora Arrow Club, and that's a gentleman by the name of Charles Del Schau. He was a German immigrant who, by his own story, was sent here to the States to go to California and report on this group of other German immigrants who had settled in California, who were dabbling

• 4:15Speaker 02

  with flying machines. The problem is, this was in the 1850s, the decade before the US Civil War. Flying machines. This was Del Schau's story. And he claimed that he was sent on behalf of an organization based in, I think it was, I'm pretty sure it was Brandenburg, Germany, called Nymza, N-Y-M-Z-A, spelled with all capital letters, like an acronym. And he's our original source on this word, on this group, that he claimed was headquartered

• 4:57Speaker 02

  in Germany. And they were overseeing, and maybe in some cases, investors, in various groups that were dabbling in flight and other exotic technologies, which he did not elaborate on, because he was, according to his own story, only sent here to go to California and investigate these guys. Well, Del Schau-

• 5:21Danny Jones?

  On behalf of Nymza.

• 5:22Speaker 02

  On behalf of Nymza, the mysterious group. Now, remember, Germany back then was still multiple, I think 48 states. They weren't a unified Germany yet. They were, you know, the Prussians, so-called Prussians, were driving unification. So that was Germany at that time. So he goes to California. He ends up really liking these guys. And finally, and he reports on witnessing these flying machines working. They're not balloons. And he describes

• 6:01Speaker 02

  how their system and their process works. Eventually, the German office, they send a representative directly from there, whom Del Schau and the other members of the club referred to as that Prussian officer, some military guy. And nobody liked him in the club, because the message from Nymza in Germany was, "We want you to design and build these things for military application." And these guys didn't want to. So-

• 6:36Danny Jones?

  So why were, why was this German group of people doing this stuff in California?

• 6:42Speaker 02

  They had, see, that's part of the mystery, is Del Schau tells us some of their names, but we still don't know their backgrounds. The leader of the Sonora Arrow Club was a guy named Peter Menes. And he, after this Prussian officer comes from Germany, and they kind of have, kind of a confrontation with him, because they're not going to build these for military application. The Prussian officer's going to go back to Germany and report on this. And not long after that, Peter Menes reportedly, according to Del Schau, dies when his flying machine, they called them arrows, A-E-R-O, that's how they

• 7:25Speaker 02

  spell it, explodes in a fiery crash. And we're told that Peter Menes dies. There's reason to suspect that maybe he faked his death. And then after that, the club breaks up, and that's it. And we first heard about this. Del Schau started writing about this in 1893 or '04. And we would never have known about this story, had a gentleman by the name of Pete Navarro not found Del Schau's journals and illustrations in a junk shop in 1971.

• 8:12Danny Jones?

  Pete Navarro?

• 8:13Speaker 02

  Pete Navarro. He's since passed. I exchanged a couple of emails with him, and he's our original source on Del Schau. In 1971, he found these books, several books, bound with string, and it had just, several of these books contain hundreds of these sketches and paintings and drawings, elaborate drawings, of the arrows, both actually built, that actually flew, and those that were proposed.

• 8:45Danny Jones?

  Where are these journals now?

• 8:47Speaker 02

  Well, what's interesting is, they're kind of dispersed out, but we know that, for a while, anyway, and maybe still, the Demon Il-

• 8:57Danny Jones?

  Is this it?

• 8:58Speaker 02

  That's, there's an example. Yeah, that's an example.

• 9:02Danny Jones?

  He drew this?

• 9:03Speaker 02

  He drew all of these that you see, like this. Yeah, yeah. And the Demon Il organization, who, if you know your JFK assassination milieu, the Demon Il's are in the mix there.

• 9:18Danny Jones?

  Never heard of Demon Il.

• 9:20Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. They bought several of the books back in the 70s, and they were keenly interested in Del Schau's stuff. And they-

• 9:34Danny Jones?

  They bought his original handwritten journals?

• 9:36Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. They bought several of them.

• 9:38Danny Jones?

  Are there any photos of the actual handwritten journals online or anything?

• 9:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, actually, one of the pictures that I sent that shows a bound book with a tan cover, that's a photograph of just one of the many books. And, yeah, a gentleman by the name of Steven Romano, who owns the Romano Gallery in New York, his, there's an example of one of them. And there were several of these. But as you can see, they're just stacked full of these illustrations. And the Steven Romano Gallery has published an absolutely beautiful, oversized book of several samples from the Del Schau books. It's fantastic.

• 10:24Danny Jones?

  Find some more images of that, Steve.

• 10:27Speaker 02

  And he shared with me some, requested me not to publish them, but he shared with me some of Del Schau's private diary pages.

• 10:37Danny Jones?

  Why would he ask you not to publish them?

• 10:40Speaker 02

  Because at the time, I don't think he had permission. He wanted to know my, because Del Schau wrote a lot of stuff in code. He used this weird, personal code that a few people have worked on decoding it, but we're not quite sure. Pete Navarro probably did the most on the decoding of it, but we're not sure what most of it says. And Del Schau produced these books between, I think, 1893 or '94 and 1923, when he died.

• 11:20Speaker 02

  So that he didn't emerge into public awareness until Navarro found his books in 1971 has a lot of people kind of consider him, write him off as an outsider artist. I don't because there's just too much there for him to have merely been an outsider artist making all this up, not the least of which was the discovery I made. You're familiar with Daglaka, the Nazi bell?

• 11:57Danny Jones?

  Oh yeah, I've heard of the Nazi bell.

• 12:00Speaker 02

  Okay, I found the bell, a prototype proof of concept version of the bell in Del Schell's works. I

• 12:08Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 12:09Speaker 02

  The first thing I did was call, I'm good friends with Joseph Farrell.

• 12:12Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 12:13Speaker 02

  And I said, Joseph, I'm gonna send you a photo. What is this to you?

• 12:17Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 12:18Speaker 02

  And he looked at it, he goes, where did you find that? I go, it's in Del Schell. He's, you gotta be kidding me. I'm like, no. Then I contacted Steven Romano and I go, go to page whatever of your book. There's the bell. Now, Del Schell, prior to dying in 1923, one of his drawings, in fact, I think I sent photos of that too, you'll see here. He claimed that this was the, the, the motive power source or, or part of the power source for how the arrows could take flight and, and gain anti-gravity. It was just part of the process. It's

• 12:55Danny Jones?

  The Nazi bell was?

• 12:56Speaker 02

  But it's a bell shaped, well, the Nazis later, they juiced it up with electromagnetism, but this would have been a proof of concept. Very basic, but there it is, a bell shaped element that rotates, spins around a central axis. And according to Del Schell, no, it's, it's, it's one that's, that's, yeah, click through those and

• 13:26Danny Jones?

  It would be the shape of a bell?

• 13:30Speaker 02

  Go back, go back. There we go.

• 13:34Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 13:35Speaker 02

  The generator cone. Del Schell called it the generator cone.

• 13:39Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 13:40Speaker 02

  But it's bell shaped. And then the description, it spins around a central axis. And now, he sketches this before he dies in 1923. And we have the, you know, the lore of Daglaka, the Nazi bell emerges, obviously, after 1923.

• 14:02Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 14:03Speaker 02

  Okay. And you've got the German connection.

• 14:07Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 14:08Speaker 02

  You know, you, you, you start seeing these, these threads. Now, like I said, others that have looked at it, that, you know, Joseph Farrell being one of them, they're, they agree with me that this is essentially a prototype proof of concept version of the bell. However, it was they did this in the 1850s. Now,

• 14:30Danny Jones?

  Well, what, what is the conventional explanation that people will give you, historians will give you, if you ask them about the Nazi bell?

• 14:38Speaker 02

  Oh, most historians don't even believe it exists.

• 14:43Danny Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 14:44Speaker 02

  They don't even acknowledge it being real?

• 14:45Danny Jones?

  Yeah, they, they, they

• 14:47Speaker 02

  Why? They won't go that far yet because there hasn't been a document that has emerged from anything, you know, World War II era documents that have, are proof positive yet.

• 14:57Danny Jones?

  So how do we know that the Nazi bell was something? Or why, why do people speculate about it?

• 15:02Speaker 02

  It emerged from Igor Wachowski, was a Polish researcher and writer, and a Polish intelligence officer told him about this device, you know, this Daglaka device. And he started looking into it. And Joseph Farrell is actually the first one to, to write about it in, in English. And it's still, it still comes out of that murky world of Nazi scientific intelligence.

• 15:37Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 15:38Speaker 02

  You know, but the

• 15:39Danny Jones?

  So it's just oral transmission? There's no original documents?

• 15:44Speaker 02

  Right, right. That, now, there are things that Joseph Farrell has pointed out, like Kamler, Professor, Dr. Kamler, who was in, would have been involved with such things. And there's some murky, mysterious stuff stated in documents about him. There was mention of a particular device being classified as, in German, it translates into the English as it can, it can change the outcome of the war. However, that's said in German. Joseph Farrell's better about the phrase, but, but it was classified

• 16:22Danny Jones?

  Like a weapon?

• 16:23Speaker 02

  With the Wonderwaffe, you're familiar with the Wonderwaffe, the wonder weapons that the, the Nazis were developing during the war.

• 16:30Danny Jones?

  Oh, remind me.

• 16:31Speaker 02

  In the murk of all that, well, their, their most exotic technologies

• 16:36Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 16:37Speaker 02

  Were referred to as Wunderwaffe. Okay, the wonder weapons. And they could change the outcome of the war. And there was something very mysterious that Kamler was involved with that could have changed the outcome of the war. And that is believed to be a reference to the bell. And then there are other stories

• 16:56Danny Jones?

  Sounds like that could be a nuke, maybe?

• 16:57Speaker 02

  Well, they were messing with nuclear technology, you know? Some folks believe that they did detonate a test nuke.

• 17:08Danny Jones?

  I heard this.

• 17:09Speaker 02

  I'm not a German speaker, Thuringian woods or something, the, one of the, the forest country over there, and possibly tested one in the Pacific for the Japanese, possibly. That's part of the lore. I'm admittedly not an expert on that, but there's, there's enough reasons to suspect that the Germans were farther along with their atomic bomb research than has been traditionally believed.

• 17:43Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 17:44Speaker 00

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• 19:10Speaker 02

  So, you know, it, it could have just simply have been that, but you have all these, these weird stories. Now, I've done some research on that. And there's a novel by Dean Koontz called Lightning, titled Lightning, which is about a Nazi time machine. And when you, and it was published in the 80s, a few years before Igor Wachowski's source came to him and said, hey, there was this thing called Daglaka, the bell. And what's interesting is the time device in Dean Koontz's novel.

• 19:55Speaker 02

  Is strikingly similar to the description that this Polish intelligence officer told Igor Witkowski. So the question remains, okay, did the intelligence officer just get this from a book and generate this stuff? Or what did Dean Koontz know when he wrote this? You know, was there really anything to it? And then alas, we find that Del Shaw did this drawing before 1923. And for all intents and purposes, what he's describing is the bell, the rotating device, you know, now what the Nazis did was added the the second

• 20:39Speaker 02

  element, because it you had the counter rotation, right? You had two parts, one spun one way, the other spun the other way. And they injected a serum, which might have been mercury. Most people think it's mercury. And then the high spin rate. And then, of course, they juiced it up with electromagnetism, unlike it had ever been before. And so the legendary result is anti-gravity. So here you have this group in the 1850s, that according to a guy writing in the 1890s, before 1923, was messing with the same concept. And he's claiming that

• 21:23Speaker 02

  they were achieving a form of anti-gravity.

• 21:27Danny Jones?

  Interesting.

• 21:29Speaker 02

  So you have to wonder, okay, maybe the bell story, you know, is true.

• 21:35Danny Jones?

  If you enjoy watching our show on Spotify or YouTube, and you want to be more involved, I encourage you to please come check out our Patreon community. Not only does our Patreon community get every episode you see on YouTube, early, fully uncensored and ad free, but we're also doing Patreon exclusive episodes, as well as live Q and As. And you can get your personal questions answered by our guests every single week. For me, being able to collaborate and communicate back and forth with our Patreon community every week has been huge. And this is my way of saying thank you for the cost of a cup of coffee a month. Now, back to the show. So did Del Shaw write about seeing these airships in the sky and how they moved?

• 22:11Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, he witnessed Peter Menace. Now, the arrows that Del Shaw witnessed were were kind of the the Model T version of what we saw in the 1890s. In my research, what I've done is I've laid out that, okay, the arrows of the 1850s that Del Shaw writes about, they were kind of like the Model T. And then the 1890s airship, that that would have been, I've got a chart on there called the Bosley chart that shows you exactly what I'm talking about.

• 22:45Danny Jones?

  Like the evolution of it?

• 22:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, kind of, to give an idea. So these things were smaller, they could fit one or two people. And they would demonstrate them. Yeah, there's what I call the Bosley chart. I came up with that for. So you see the on the left is an 1850s arrow. And then there's the

• 23:05Danny Jones?

  1890s airship.

• 23:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's like a 58 Buick. And then, of course, the modern UFO is more like an 85 Porsche compared to.

• 23:13Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 23:14Speaker 02

  And that kind of shows you now. I think the 1890s airship is a result of development that started right after the end of the Civil War. But will, which I'm sure we'll get into that.

• 23:30Danny Jones?

  So how did he describe those things moving? Did he say, was there anything unique about it?

• 23:38Speaker 02

  It would just, he describes them raising up, and they would fly them around the countryside and then come back down.

• 23:46Danny Jones?

  He didn't say they were like faster than normal, or?

• 23:49Speaker 02

  He did not say they were faster than normal.

• 23:51Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 23:52Speaker 02

  That kind of thing didn't emerge until the 1890s. The way

• 23:56Danny Jones?

  When was the first powered flight?

• 23:59Speaker 02

  Well, credited powered flight was, I think it was

• 24:10Danny Jones?

  He's got all kinds of AIs in front of him. He'll find it.

• 24:12Speaker 02

  The Wright Brothers, right? Or is it the Wright Brothers?

• 24:16Danny Jones?

  I thought

• 24:17Speaker 02

  It depends on who you talk to.

• 24:18Danny Jones?

  Right, yeah.

• 24:19Speaker 02

  First powered flight is, oh, here you go.

• 24:24Danny Jones?

  1903, okay.

• 24:27Speaker 02

  Yeah. Okay, so they are, yeah, the

• 24:30Danny Jones?

  Wilbur and Orville Wright.

• 24:31Speaker 02

  Flight, yeah. Yeah. And that's standard history.

• 24:34Danny Jones?

  Right, exactly. Huh. What does it say? The longest flight that day was 59 seconds that covered 852 feet.

• 24:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:45Danny Jones?

  Interesting. So this was quite a bit 50 years after, about 50 years after the first powered flight.

• 24:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, the first credited known, because I think they filmed, I think they had a movie camera out there. Because there were others that claimed to have done it before. There were French guys that had done it. There was, some people claim a gentleman, I can't remember his name, a movie was made about him, I think in the 50s with Glenn Ford, a guy down by San Diego, who had allegedly done the same thing. But they didn't take pictures or movie footage. And like in our times, and no photos, it didn't happen, right? So, yeah, so this is all in the face of

• 25:30Danny Jones?

  What is this?

• 25:33Speaker 02

  There we have Gustav Whitehead.

• 25:35Speaker 04

  Yeah, these are, these are uncredited, unverified, undocumented.

• 25:41Danny Jones?

  Undocumented first flight?

• 25:42Speaker 04

  Like 1901, 1980, 1890. Yeah.

• 25:46Danny Jones?

  Oh, there's a lot of people that were credited to have possibly been the first powered flight.

• 25:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was being worked toward. Yeah, you know, it was being worked on.

• 25:53Danny Jones?

  So other than Del Shaw's drawings and these and these notebooks that he was creating, there was no other anecdotal corroboration or witness testimony or anything like that?

• 26:08Speaker 02

  Right. All we have is Del Shaw, as far as the Sonora Aero Club goes.

• 26:15Danny Jones?

  Now, what about the 1890s airships?

• 26:18Speaker 02

  Those were reported in newspapers in San Francisco and around the country, wherever they were seen. In fact, that's how we know about them are the newspaper reports and the multiple witnesses. The 1890s airship mystery, it gets way more interesting when you look closely at it. There are those who, again, amazingly, just write it off and say, it was an April Fool's Day joke. Well, that's funny, because the first one was reported in November. So that kind of shoots that down. These were

• 26:59Speaker 02

  these were witnessed by many people. And there, in one particular instance, there were a couple of known historical figures that you can pull up their pictures. Colonel Samuel Tillman and Amos Dolbear. You're thinking, who are these guys? They were not rock stars of their day. If people were making stuff up, you might expect them to say, oh, Mark Twain and Teddy Roosevelt stepped off of an airship. But no, a gentleman stepped off the airship and introduced himself as Samuel Tillman. That's Samuel Tillman right there.

• 27:44Speaker 02

  He was an army colonel. I think he might have been retired at this point. But this might have been around the time that for a while during World War One, he became the commandant of West Point. So he's a real guy. There's record of him. And Daniel List, dark journalist, he's done some incredibly deeper dive research on this guy right here to further corroborate

• 28:11Danny Jones?

  Interesting.

• 28:12Speaker 02

  who he was. Well, he and Amos Dolbear, who was an electrical engineer, they step off this airship. And they talked to the witness. Give their names and everything and then get back on and go.

• 28:26Danny Jones?

  Where is this?

• 28:27Speaker 02

  This was, I believe this, this might have been in North Texas, because these airships were seen from San Francisco, all the way into Montana, Wyoming, Utah, and down into Texas. Interestingly, along much of what was called the outlaw trail, which suggests the other surprise in my research, Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid and at a place, but we'll get to that. So.

• 28:53Danny Jones?

  And they, so the story is they were in Texas, these guys landed their airship, walked out and talked to somebody?

• 29:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, because they needed water. It was when the airships would land very, in multiple reports, they would need to get water. And so they would, while they were collecting their water, the pilots would talk to them. Another interesting fellow who comes up, and he's a whole discussion in himself, known only by his last name, Wilson, the mysterious Wilson. There were two Wilsons identified with the 1890s airship mystery. There was a Wilson in the Sonora Aero Club. And I first heard of Wilson through my dad's weird exploit when he was in the Air Force in the late 50s. That was the first Wilson

• 29:44Speaker 02

  I'd heard of. So we've got this century of these individuals named Wilson, who seem to be from the same family, who seem to be involved with all these airship mysteries. And in my dad's case, development of alleged anti-gravity research technology for the US Air Force in the late 50s. But Wilson is one of the two Wilsons, Hiram Wilson and Willard Wilson, were two of the crewmen from the airships that were reported talking with witnesses, explaining that, hey, we're in Texas right now, we can fly down to South

• 30:26Speaker 02

  America and be back, or Cuba and be back within a couple of hours or a few hours, that kind of thing. So they would talk about the abilities and they, it was like they were very open, not trying to hide this once these things were seen. So the 1890s airship mystery was a really interesting era for this. It was almost as if somebody was testing the waters of the public.

• 30:53Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 30:54Speaker 02

  It was widely reported in the newspapers of the day, west of the Mississippi, mostly, unlike the Sonora Aero Club mystery, for which we only have the one source. So.

• 31:09Danny Jones?

  So strange.

• 31:10Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 31:10Danny Jones?

  How many different witnesses were there for the 1980s airships?

• 31:14Speaker 02

  The 1890s? The newspapers, you know, identify individuals that they spoke to, but they would describe it as a crowd of people or a group of people. In some cases, the whole city is watching. I believe in San Francisco, that's the case. The whole city was seeing this thing fly over.

• 31:37Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 31:37Speaker 02

  And what's really interesting, and I get into it in one of my subsequent books, is Ambrose Bierce. Ambrose Bierce is a guy who was interested in strange things, wrote about strange, odd things. And he worked for the newspaper that was owned by William Randolph Hearst. Now Hearst has long been alleged to have been one of the investors in the mystery airships.

• 32:04Danny Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 32:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:06Danny Jones?

  This is saying, by the way, Steve Googled it and the Wikipedia says over 100,000 witnesses.

• 32:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, through all the, over the cities that they appeared. And yeah, it was a lot of people.

• 32:17Danny Jones?

  So crazy.

• 32:18Speaker 02

  And, and this is why I say, when you look into this, um, sure, there's, there, there, there will be some that people are making it up. It's kind of like in our days with UFOs. People want to be part of the fun. Oh, I saw one too. And, and you can usually tell when they're making it up. And I tend to try to be polite. You know, oh, really? You know?

• 32:39Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 32:40Speaker 02

  In some cases, I'll say BS.

• 32:42Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 32:43Speaker 02

  But usually, you know, you'll be polite, but to write this off as nothing but an April Fool's joke and that all these newspapers and all these people were, were doing. That's, I wonder what the agenda of the skeptical individual insisting that this was all a joke. You know, I

• 33:04Danny Jones?

  Well, what's really crazy is it goes back into like biblical stories of seeing things flying in the air, like mysterious things.

• 33:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, throughout several

• 33:14Danny Jones?

  Since the beginning of recorded history, you can talk, they, they talk about this kind of stuff.

• 33:19Speaker 02

  Well, there's the Vedic literature. I've become a big fan of what was really going on a long time ago. Cause this Vedic stuff is just way too, it's wild, but I, I think it will go to explain much of the mysteries of our lost past.

• 33:41Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 33:42Speaker 02

  If we could just get, people, people in the West are, have been turning on to this and they're starting to pay attention to the Vedic stuff more and take it seriously. But there's still a lot of resistance to it.

• 33:55Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm. Yeah, some of this ancient literature, I mean, even less ancient, like biblical stuff. It just seems like, you know, whatever these people were seeing, either they had the most insane imaginations or they were on an ungodly amount of psychedelic drugs. Or they were seeing something that we just can't, you know what I mean? Maybe we just don't have the ability to perceive. I don't know. It's mysterious, but it's very interesting. How it's been corroborated through time.

• 34:24Speaker 02

  I've put forth in, in the books even laid it out that I think in those times, I, I do think extraterrestrials are real. You know, most, I think most people do. And I think they have been coming here. I think they do come here. Um, I think in the remote past, they were here and interacting. And so when you, when you refer to these old writings, like scriptures and old histories and stuff, I think those folks back then, they were interacting with people from other worlds.

• 35:02Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Like the Book of Enoch and stuff like that.

• 35:05Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 35:05Danny Jones?

  Exactly. What's interesting is the Book of Enoch and the story, and Plato's Atlantis is exactly the same story.

• 35:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, isn't that, isn't that interesting? Enoch's city in the sky intrigues me. Now I looked into that for my origin book. And in that research, and all I could find for documented source on that was from Joseph Smith's writings. Uh, the, the Mormon literature.

• 35:38Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 35:39Speaker 02

  Which has its problems. My personal assessment on Smith is that I think he found something. I, I think he really did find some type of documentation of a past lost civilization. But I think then he used it to create his religion.

• 36:00Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 36:01Speaker 02

  That's what I think he did.

• 36:02Danny Jones?

  I think these people are, might be on to something.

• 36:06Danny Jones?

  The Scientologists.

• 36:07Speaker 02

  You think?

• 36:09Danny Jones?

  I find it so strange that all of the top remote viewers were Scientologists.

• 36:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:15Danny Jones?

  And, you know, for such a freaky, weird religious cult, like they were never shut down for some reason. And I know they did a lot of crazy shit, like suing the IRS. And, um, you know, they, they have ways of like lobbying governments and stuff like that. And they're very resourceful with the money they have. But usually the shit that people, what I've noticed just doing this podcast is usually like the face value, the, the stuff that seems the most wacky at face value. After time, you start to realize like, huh, like there may be a couple kernels of truth in there somewhere.

• 36:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm a big believer in the nugget of truth approach.

• 36:54Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 36:55Speaker 02

  When you're talking Scientology, you got, you gotta look at the man who started it, L. Ron Hubbard.

• 37:01Danny Jones?

  Friends with Jack Parsons.

• 37:02Speaker 02

  There you go. And a bit of a world explorer himself in his younger days. So he was very much interested in, you know, these lost mysteries and such, obviously. Now you have to wonder, okay, was he naval intelligence purely when he was associated with Jack Parsons? Or did naval intelligence select him, assign him to that because he was knowledgeable about the weird stuff, the arcane things? So, yeah, I think that a guy like Hubbard absolutely learned some weird esoteric knowledge.

• 37:44Speaker 02

  And it went into, you know, what they do now as far as their,

• 37:50Speaker 02

  their ability to survive, even with the scandals and the, quite frankly, bad things you hear about.

• 37:56Danny Jones?

  My God, like unbelievable amount of negative, negative press.

• 38:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, so you wonder, but when you point to the guys who developed remote viewing,

• 38:07Speaker 02

  that was developed by the US government, right? And in connections

• 38:11Danny Jones?

  Was it developed by them or was it just co, was it just co-opted and funded by them after they found?

• 38:17Speaker 02

  And then greatly advanced. I would, I would say that, that we probably haven't heard the most extraordinary. I, I'm, I'm pretty sure we probably haven't heard

• 38:29Danny Jones?

  We've seen, we've heard the tip of the iceberg, probably.

• 38:30Speaker 02

  Exactly. I'm sure McMonigal has done things that would blow your mind even more if, if you knew them. You know, Joseph McMonigal, who's considered the best one.

• 38:42Danny Jones?

  What if remote viewing was a fake operation they made up? And threw some money at as a get out of jail free card because we actually had spies in other places. And when we found shit out, we didn't want to cause any chaos. So we said, oh no, we have this remote viewing program we're doing. Don't worry, we don't have anyone, any intelligence people embedded in your country.

• 39:09Speaker 02

  And that's reasonable.

• 39:10Danny Jones?

  I don't know if I believe that, but it's a, it's a, you know, possible.

• 39:14Speaker 02

  Coming from the perspective of having been in the community, the intelligence and counterintelligence community, uh, which they're all the same community. That does sound operationally rational. That's something that they would do. Oh yeah, this covering for a much more mundane, down to earth source. If it weren't for the fact that when you try the stuff, it works to a degree.

• 39:43Speaker 02

  And so then you're back to, okay, wait a minute, then are they, are they really doing this? Now, what I found interesting, I noticed something about a couple of novels, a couple of works of fiction. One of them was published in 1970, titled Time and Again. And, oh, boy, the author's name, Jack Finney, I'm sorry, Jack Finney, the great Jack Finney, who had written time travel stories in the 50s. He had written for Outer Limits, you know, Twilight

• 40:24Speaker 02

  Zone even, I think. He was friends with George Clayton Johnson, another Twilight Zone author, and Richard Matheson and Ray Bradbury and all those guys. So he writes this novel, Time and Again, this published in 1970. And when you read that novel and read his description of how their time travel works, you're saying, that's the, that's the remote viewing program. How it worked in the novel is that the protagonist is recruited into this ultra-secret DoD US Army program in, in a warehouse. It's headquartered in a warehouse in Manhattan, and they have

• 41:06Speaker 02

  these little cubicles. And in each cubicle, everything is the trappings of a particular era, whether it's Rome, whether it's the Renaissance. And so the individual who's supposed to time travel, using his mind, dresses and lives the part in that cubicle. And the idea is to use the power of the mind to literally transport yourself back in time. The protagonist of the novel is the first one, well, he's not the first one, but he's the most successful at it. Obviously, you know, you gotta have, gotta have a novel. And so I immediately, when I learned about the RV program, I thought of that novel, because

• 41:47Speaker 02

  I had read it years before. And I'm thinking, okay, we're told that RV, we're told that RV emerges sometime between 70 and 75. But here's this novel in 70 that pretty much virtually describes kind of the setup for, you know, remote viewing. And we're told that remote viewers can look through time. So then you have, in 1975, you have the novel Bid Time Return, which became very famous under the film title Somewhere in Time, the movie with Christopher Reeve and Jane Seymour, written by Richard Matheson, in which he uses the power of his mind to transport himself back, in the case of the movie, 1912,

• 42:32Speaker 02

  because he falls in love with the actress, you know, that he sees in a picture in the Hall of History, the hotel. And again, it's, it's the same process as what Jack Finney wrote about and published by 1970.

• 42:47Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 42:48Speaker 02

  So I wonder, were they actually dabbling with what we call remote viewing, long before we're told that they did? And when you go back to how MKUltra came to the United States during the World War II era, it, it starts getting a little interesting there, as far as, as far as I'm concerned, regarding the timeline. When you're talking to the US government, particularly the military, if, like an aircraft, if you're told, oh, this is our most advanced

• 43:27Speaker 02

  aircraft, and this is its altitude ceiling, and this is its top speed. Well, if you've been in that world, you come to realize, okay, that's definitely not the most advanced aircraft we have, because that's going to be secret. And even the aircraft they're telling you about, oh, its ceiling is going to be higher.

• 43:46Danny Jones?

  They're telling you about 20%.

• 43:47Speaker 02

  Yeah. They're, they're keeping it short, you might say, and it goes faster. That's just the way you do it. And I, I got no problem with that. That's smart. So when I hear that, well, remote viewing was started by these guys, and, well, it started in, you know, around 72 or 73, whenever that was, I, from my perspective, I go, okay, there's these other possibilities, and I think it started sooner than that, personally. And I think that perhaps Finney, who, when I looked into it, he had his background in the military, so did Richard Matheson, I think they had their, they still had their contacts, they

• 44:31Speaker 02

  still had their sources. And maybe, for all we know, maybe Finney was commissioned to, you know, hey, take this, write something about it, you know, we want to kind of get it out there, get the idea out there, for whatever reason. The reason could be what you said, that let's start planting seeds that we're messing with this. Because remember, we were learning during that era, the 60s, that the Russians were dabbling and messing with all this stuff. So if they were doing it, we had to do it. So you could even say, well, if they were lying about it to fool everybody, then we're going to lie. It goes on.

• 45:11Danny Jones?

  Or they, you know, they saw that we, or they were lying, I don't know, who knows? The original person, or group, or country that was doing that was trying to deceive or misdirect, and then their country didn't realize that, and said, oh, shit, they're figuring out something that we don't know anything about. We gotta look into it.

• 45:27Speaker 02

  Exactly. Until they find out, oh, wait a minute. Or until they find out the other, like, oh, shoot, this stuff's real.

• 45:35Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 45:36Speaker 02

  Now, my dabblings, because I'm not an expert RV person, my dabblings were, a gentleman emerged in April of 2007, a total stranger calls me, says he got my number from a mutual contact. And we talked for three and a half hours. This guy claimed to be former naval intelligence, and we talked for hours about weird experiences and stuff. Ultimately, he said, I want to train you in remote viewing. Have you heard of it? I'm like, oh, yeah. Yeah, I heard about it. Actually, I'd heard about it in 1986, from my mentor, which that

• 46:14Speaker 02

  gets into my weird career stuff. But I had heard about this in 1986, but I had never pursued learning it. I was not trained in it during my government career, interestingly enough. So I said, sure, yeah, you know? And he sent me discs, turned out to be the Ed Dames version, which I subsequently learned. Okay. As I was learning it, I became suspicious

• 46:47Speaker 02

  of, hmm, the test images given seem to suspiciously follow the shape of when you do the ideogram that's supposed to be like the automatic writing part. Well, you're natural, most of my ideograms, most of them, I could show you over the several that I've done, they all look, it's a squiggle, right? A pointed squiggle. Oh, funny thing that the first targets have points on them. And what I became suspicious about that was, oh, that's a good way to convince somebody that they're really doing this. Like, show an image of a barn

• 47:32Speaker 02

  with a pointed roof like that. Well, that's going to look like your squiggle. Show the Statue of Liberty with the pointed crown. Well, that's going to look like the, oh, look at this, I'm, I'm doing remote viewing. So I'm kind of, I have a foot in two worlds. One is, yeah, I love the weird stuff. Oh, yeah. And there is more to this existence.

• 47:55Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 47:55Speaker 02

  But then, because of what I was professionally, I always have to remind myself, okay, you know, don't let this fool you. Be, be skeptical of it. It's kind of like when the Vatican sends the guy out to eliminate all other possibilities, rather than demonic possession. You know, like, oh, no, it's a psychiatric problem. Oh, no, you're faking it. I, I kind of feel like that guy. I'm a believer in these things, but I know the value in critical thinking. And so that's kind of the position. So when I say, hey, I think there's something

• 48:39Speaker 02

  to this, I'm being, I mean, I'm always honest and sincere, but

• 48:43Danny Jones?

  Didn't that Vatican guy, though, wasn't he always incentivized to tell him it was the devil? Because there's that old saying, the devil's the church's best friend, because it keeps him in business.

• 48:51Speaker 02

  Well, I think, yeah, that, there was, in general, they would have guys that they would send out to, let's eliminate the mundane first. But that's another thing I have an issue with, but there's a whole other discussion with everything being the devil. You bring up a good point there. And right now, it's, that's really popular with certain things.

• 49:11Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah, totally.

• 49:11Speaker 02

  That I think partially could be, but it doesn't explain it all. That's a meandering away from. So

• 49:22Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it's, it's, it's very easy to get, and it's very easy to be convinced about something, and to believe in something when it has, like, profound meaning. You know, when you make it meaningful to somebody? Like, for example, the whole synchronicity thing, where, like, if, if you're thinking about somebody that you haven't talked to in a long time, and all of a sudden they call you, like, oh, my God, that has so much meaning, right? Because like, the probability of that happening is almost impossible. So there must be, we must have been, like, telepathically connected at that moment. But then, you know, you do the math, and how many times have you thought about people you haven't talked to in a long time, and they never called you?

• 50:05Speaker 02

  Right.

• 50:06Danny Jones?

  Right?

• 50:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know, for, for the hundred times you did it, it worked twice.

• 50:11Danny Jones?

  Right. Ooh, there's something to it. The one time it happens, it just has so much meaning, you never forget it. But you forget all the other times that it never, no one ever called you.

• 50:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course. Those are the inconvenient. Interesting you'd bring that up, because maybe we, maybe we should meander over to the, my career stuff, because that really formed me, who I am as a person, and then formed who I am as a researcher, writer.

• 51:08Speaker 02

  I had a mentor who I talk about and have written about and he really, he was tailoring me for something. But it all, it really for me all started in December of 1979. I wake up one, I'm 16, just a couple of months. I wake up one Sunday morning and the first thing I do is look at my hands and I'm thinking, these, these aren't my hands. Now, you gotta remember, I'm kind of a straight arrow. I'm, I'm a nerd. I haven't smoked weed even a puff to this day and I'm 62. So I was a nerdy kid.

• 51:50Speaker 02

  I didn't, it wasn't like I'd come off a bender or something, you know?

• 51:54Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 51:55Speaker 02

  It was, you know, I'm looking like, these are not my hands. And I look at the wall and I'm seeing a texture, the texture of the wall in a way that I'm not used to. I get up and I recall through that day, I walked through the house and there's my sisters and I remember thinking, okay, there's my sisters and, oh, okay, there's my mom in the kitchen. It was just, what's going on here? I just felt weird and there was, there'd been some type of weird shifting in my consciousness. It was like an awakening and

• 52:30Speaker 02

  over the course of the, the next several months, I had this intense focus or sensing, you know, I could, I could sense when there was some type of stress going on between people. It was just really weird. It was, and I couldn't explain it. I obviously still can't explain it now, just what I was going through. A little over a year after that, now we're into January of 1981, I have this dream, the most vivid lucid dream I had ever had and

• 53:14Speaker 02

  over the course of about 20 years, parts of that dream came true, I kid you not. It's, I don't know how to explain it, but I would, one time I was in the nineties, I was coming back from deployment with the air force, I was in Germany. I'd go to this little village, Rudishheim, and I turn a corner and there's a landscape that I had seen in this dream in 1981. Stuff like that, all sorts of, of weird things like that. So that happens in January of 81 and in February of 81, I have my Disneyland experience, which led to the, the strange thing I write about in my book Latitude 33, the Disneyland stuff. So these kinds of things are going on.

• 53:58Speaker 02

  I mean, I could tell you a dozen more stories, but what was interesting that I, that I noticed was that this mentor, who's an uncle of mine, he visited us about seven months or so before I had that awakening in 79. And when he was visiting, he seemed mostly interested in me. He's one of my mom's brothers. And he would, he would sit there and he would look at me and then he would just make small talk, but he would look at me and I noticed, I'm like, okay, you know, I got three ears or something.

• 54:38Speaker 02

  So a few years later, after the, the Disneyland thing, I've finished college, it's 1986 and that's when he starts overtly pitching me to work for Uncle Sam. But he starts the conversation with, oh, I, you know, you're interested in UFOs and strange phenomena and stuff like that? Oh yeah, absolutely. And he tells me his own story of when he was in the army. He had been recruited in the army in 1950. He ended up in the 101st Airborne and went into army intelligence and such, but he told me about his own weird experience with seeing this

• 55:21Speaker 02

  figure, this entity he called the Blue Lady, really crazy stuff. And while he's telling me this, and this could have some significance, I think, down the road in the story, he's telling me about the Blue Lady and I start trembling. Just this weird, I don't know what he was doing, if he was doing something with his voice or whatever, but I was trembling and, and getting kind of slightly nauseous. It was just weird. Anyway, the conversation ended with, if you really want to learn more about these things, you should go to work for the government. Like, really? And he goes, yeah, yeah, go get into be a federal agent or whatever.

• 56:05Speaker 02

  And I, you know, I'm a, I'm a young guy out of college. Okay, this sounds cool, you know? And so that began his formal mentorship of me. That was in spring of 86 and by December of 86, I drove back, he's from Alabama, he's passed, he, he passed away in 2016, but at the time he was living in Alabama, that's where my mom's from. And I drive back there to visit him and he tells me more weird stories, but he told me, bring a suit and tie, I'm gonna have you pay a visit to someplace. Okay, so I did that.

• 56:48Speaker 02

  He had me, I get back there, he has me drive to Huntsville.

• 56:51Danny Jones?

  Oh boy.

• 56:53Speaker 02

  The night before I go, he has me fill out what's called an SF 80, a standard form 80, just a basic employment application for the US government, all the agency's basic level use. And he goes, fill this out and tomorrow you're gonna drive to Huntsville and you're gonna take this to building number such and such, to the back door. This is how my career started. So I go up there, Redstone Arsenal, the NASA installation, it's a NASA building. I knock on the door, a guy pops out, are you Walter? Yes, I am. You got something for me? And I handed it to him. Thank you. Okay, go enjoy the museum. And that was it. I never worked for NASA, I never got interviewed by NASA, but I turned my first government

• 57:37Speaker 02

  application into the back door of a NASA office at Huntsville with all its murky stuff, right?

• 57:45Danny Jones?

  So what happened when you went inside?

• 57:46Speaker 02

  I didn't go inside.

• 57:47Danny Jones?

  Oh.

• 57:48Speaker 02

  He, he just took it, closed it, said, go enjoy the museum, which, you know, the grounds and, and that was it. He had me then, the following November, he instructed me to go apply to the FBI, which I did at the Riverside office. I went in and turned in an application there. Now, when you go to work for the FBI, it usually takes about 18 months to your background. Year and a half, you're waiting to start work. I turned my application in, in November of 87 and by the beginning of February, they had finished my background investigation.

• 58:33Speaker 02

  And one of the sources, references that I gave them, she calls me and she says, hey, the guy just came by and interviewed me for your background. Oh, okay, great. The next day, she calls and says, these other two guys came by and they interviewed me again for your background and I told them that I had already done this and they said, well, we're the FBI, we do our own backgrounds. Who was this? She goes, I don't know, he showed me a badge. So there were two agencies doing my background and by the middle of February, I'm getting a call. Congratulations, Walter, report for duty at LA, 11,000 Welter Boulevard on the 14th of March, 1988 is when I started.

• 59:12Speaker 02

  And when I showed up to walk in, now my mentor had said, take whatever they offer you, they know you have a college degree, don't worry about that, take whatever they offer you. So I accepted a GS3 mail clerk position, just to get in the door. So I'm there with about a dozen other new, newbies, you know, going in to be a mail clerk and I and a young lady get pulled out of the line and we're each taken to separate rooms. It's an empty room with just the chair I'm in and two in front of me. And I'm waiting and I'm thinking, okay, who in my family's the drug dealer I didn't know about, you know, or something like that? And it wasn't that. These two agents come in and they say, hey, we're with the special support group, we

• 59:57Speaker 02

  do counterintelligence surveillance undercover, under shallow cover, and we think you're uniquely qualified for this. Fill out this in-house 14-page thing, get it back to us as soon as possible. So I spent 45 days as a mail clerk and then was promoted to evidence technician. And I was an evidence technician for six months when I got a call. I had, I had gotten married that summer to my first wife and we had transferred up to the San Francisco division. Anyway, I'd been an evidence technician for six months. When I get a call from the supervisor of the surveillance team in San Francisco saying, is this Walter Bosley? Yes. Okay, I'm supposed to interview you. He was told, bring him up, interview him.

• 1:00:39Speaker 02

  And that's how my counterintelligence career started. I was sent off to my first round of spook training, spy training at Quantico and I was on an undercover surveillance team for a while in San Francisco and then-

• 1:00:55Danny Jones?

  Oh yeah, you're tracking, you're hunting down the Hells Angels or?

• 1:00:58Speaker 02

  No, just Russian spies.

• 1:00:59Danny Jones?

  Russian spies?

• 1:01:00Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:01:01Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:01:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, this was Soviets, I'm sorry, because it was still the whole war.

• 1:01:05Danny Jones?

  Did you find any?

• 1:01:06Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, we followed them every day. We followed the known and suspected KGB and GRU agents working out of the Green Street consulate in San Francisco. I think it moved after the, in fact, the consulate was still there, I think after the 89 earthquake, but the people who lived, the Russians who lived around there, they moved pretty quickly because of the earthquake damage. But yeah, that's who I worked against in San Francisco, the teams worked against. And then I passed the language training and-

• 1:01:39Danny Jones?

  The language training?

• 1:01:41Speaker 02

  Uh, I'm sorry, the language test, aptitude test. And they were gonna send me the link, they said, we're sending you to, you, you scored the highest in the division, so we're sending you to Russian training. I'm like, great, I already live in San Jose, I just, you know, pack a bag and be in Monterey for 11 months. They go, well, no, not exactly, you're going to be in the Baltimore division because we're sending you to a school at Fort Meade. And I'm like, okay.

• 1:02:10Speaker 02

  Here's what's interesting is I was there with nine other FBI people from all over the country for a basic Russian language course, being taught by the NSA Cryptologic School at what's called the Fort Meade Annex. And there were nine FBI people and one NSA employee, a real quiet young woman, and she never, during those 11 months, she never socialized with us. Out of this 11 months, two couples emerged, me and my second wife among them, and, you know, ended up getting married. We were all close, I mean, real close, but the NSA employee, she would only see us Monday through Friday during the training hours.

• 1:02:52Speaker 02

  And when we would step out and take a break, you could see through the fence, an area of Fort Meade where there was this particular building that I remembered, because I would see it every day for a year. Okay, so I passed Russian language course and I go to New York, I'm in New York for three years, working on a Cold War operation that had been going on for 15 years, in the final years of the Cold War, working against GRU and KGB agents who were undercover in Manhattan.

• 1:03:23Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:03:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, that was, that was pretty cool. That was, that was fun. And my mentor, that's another part of this, my mentor's teaching me all sorts of weird stuff, and he says, "You need to know this stuff, because there's people expecting you to, to know it, know how to do..." This story is just so wild, Danny, when I think, when I look back on this, this whole thing, where I'm, what I'm leading to with this Russian training is, I learned years later, that the reason the FBI language class that I was in was sent to Fort Meade, instead of Monterey, which is where the language school is for the government, is because we

• 1:04:06Speaker 02

  were used as training targets for the RV program. And I got this confirmation, essentially, from Lynn Buchanan. When I had the opportunity to meet Lynn Buchanan a few years ago, I'm with a group of folks at his house, and everyone's asking their questions, when it was my turn to pipe up, I told him, you know, I was in this training program for language at Fort Meade back in, you know, 89, 90, and he's smiling and nodding. I said, "The things I've learned about remote viewing since then, and the strange thing..."

• 1:04:51Speaker 02

  Would they have used unwitting people, perhaps our language class, as targets for training? And he smiled and nodded, and then I told him about the, the 10th person in the class that was an NSA employee, and he knew her. He described her.

• 1:05:08Danny Jones?

  No way.

• 1:05:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:05:10Danny Jones?

  And she was there to confirm the target?

• 1:05:11Speaker 02

  And she was, if you're familiar with the RV, you know how they'll use people as antennas?

• 1:05:16Danny Jones?

  Oh, no, I wasn't aware of that.

• 1:05:18Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, they can send, you can send somebody near a target, and then you can kind of use them as a booster. That's my understanding of it.

• 1:05:26Danny Jones?

  Whoa.

• 1:05:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:05:28Danny Jones?

  Specific people?

• 1:05:29Speaker 02

  Oh, just anybody, like, they could be witting or unwitting. Now, the examples I've seen, they're witting, but from what I understand, and from what I've heard from some folks...

• 1:05:39Danny Jones?

  So she's like a human, uh, security camera, or something?

• 1:05:43Speaker 02

  The fact that she's there, and she was witting, is my understanding.

• 1:05:48Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:05:49Speaker 02

  Is it helped them focus in on her, and then they could get to each one of us.

• 1:05:54Danny Jones?

  Got it. Interesting.

• 1:05:56Speaker 02

  It's wild, but I, you know, Lynn Buchanan, I mean, so, there was our class, and then there was the class after ours, and then after that, the Bureau started sending everybody to Monterey again.

• 1:06:11Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:06:12Speaker 02

  So they only did those couple of...

• 1:06:16Danny Jones?

  And this was in like, the early 90s?

• 1:06:18Speaker 02

  This was 89, I reported to that in October of 89, and finished in September of 90.

• 1:06:24Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:06:25Speaker 02

  And it was at the Fort Meade Annex.

• 1:06:28Danny Jones?

  Yeah, one of the interesting things about that whole Bennewitz story...

• 1:06:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:35Danny Jones?

  Was that they were trying, from what I understand, they were trying to use him as like, a conduit of disinfo to poison the well of the whole MUFON community, because they thought that MUFON was infiltrated by Soviet spies.

• 1:06:48Speaker 02

  Yes, that was, because when I was an OSI agent in the mid 90s, I, that's when I first heard about Rick Doty.

• 1:06:57Danny Jones?

  Oh.

• 1:06:58Speaker 02

  Because I had the same concern, out in California, was, you know, these foreign agents could use our UFO groups to get close to bases. In other words, go out there on the, on the other side of the fence at Edwards, right? And while all the American UFO enthusiasts are going like this with their stuff, the spy's going like that, looking in the base, right?

• 1:07:20Danny Jones?

  Exactly.

• 1:07:21Speaker 02

  That's the concern. So when I brought it up as a development, um, project to my boss, that's when they informed me, "Okay, we get your concept, we're not opposed to it, but we gotta tell you about this guy, Rick Doty."

• 1:07:35Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:07:36Speaker 02

  And he was presented to me as a cautionary tale. Now, that said, the reason I recommend people read Greg Bishop's Project Beta book, is that I came away from that, between what's reported in that book and my personal experience, I don't demonize Rick Doty the way a lot of people do, because it is my opinion that the NSA drove Paul Bennewitz crazy. Not Rick Doty, not OSI, and not Bill Moore. Because on record, they tried to tell Paul, "Hey, Paul, we know you're going a little too far with this, but when you read the stuff, the audio phenomena, and certain, I

• 1:08:20Speaker 02

  guess you'd call it video phenomena, the NSA was messing with Bennewitz's house."

• 1:08:25Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:08:26Speaker 02

  They were projecting and broadcasting things in, and it's my...

• 1:08:29Danny Jones?

  From like, across the street or something?

• 1:08:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. And it's my personal, professional opinion, that it's the NSA that really hurt Paul Bennewitz.

• 1:08:39Danny Jones?

  And Rick Doty was just meeting with, he was meeting with him in person?

• 1:08:42Speaker 02

  It was his job.

• 1:08:44Danny Jones?

  Tracking him and...

• 1:08:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was his, you know, it's his job as an agent in counterintelligence, there's somebody who's paying attention to something sensitive on the base, you gotta find out, "Okay, what's going on here? Is there anybody behind this? You know, if there is, is the person witting or unwitting?"

• 1:09:05Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:09:06Speaker 02

  That kind of thing. Now, unfortunately, I've said in the past, if the Air Force has something advanced, flying around in the skies, and the general public wants to think, "Oh, it's from another world." Okay, cool, that makes my job easier, as an agent protecting this stuff. That's different from one-on-one telling somebody, "Oh, yeah, it's aliens, oh, yeah, you're right." I, to me, I would, I would draw the line before doing that, because then you are getting into putting, because you're, particularly if they, they know you as a government agent, okay, they're gonna take your, a lot of people are gonna be inclined to take your word for when you say things like that, okay?

• 1:09:50Speaker 02

  And, and then you're playing with people's psychology. And I'm personally opposed to that. So, I think that there was a little too much of that, you know, encouraging that, "Oh, it was this otherworldly thing," when it was known that it was technology.

• 1:10:10Danny Jones?

  Do you think there's any connection to the 1850s and 1890s airship stuff, and what the Navy pilots were seeing? Do you think that's like, maybe part of the same lineage?

• 1:10:21Speaker 02

  Not, I wanna say, I was gonna say, not directly, but, but in a general sense, the natural course of development of technology. Yes, I, I have found what I think is a connection between the 1850Sonora Aero Club stuff, and the 1890s airship mystery, which means, there was another individual, Solomon Andrews, who demonstrated a controlled flying machine for members of Abraham Lincoln's War Department during the Civil War. This was reported in the newspaper, a newspaper in DC.

• 1:11:00Danny Jones?

  What?

• 1:11:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, this guy contacted Lincoln and said, "I have this thing." And Lincoln said, "Oh, heck, yeah, we're interested in that, I'm gonna order Edwin Stanton to have representatives, you know, meet with you, so you can demonstrate this." And he did, and history tells us that the War Department said, "Hey, we're in the middle of this conflict, we can't fool with this right now, thank you, but no, thank you." I suspect that they were very interested, but because it was during the war, they had to put it on hold.

• 1:11:34Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:11:35Speaker 02

  But I think that Solomon Andrews was either pursuing the same arcane technological research that members of the Sonora Aero Club had been pursuing, or Andrews was acquainted with possibly, yeah, that's the, the Aeron.

• 1:11:54Danny Jones?

  Helicopter, helicopters.

• 1:11:56Speaker 02

  And that's Solomon Andrews there on the left, but it was called the Aeron, the A-E-R-O-N, and that's a drawing of what Andrews demonstrated. Now, people say...

• 1:12:07Danny Jones?

  To Lincoln.

• 1:12:08Speaker 02

  To Lincoln, members of Lincoln's, uh...

• 1:12:12Speaker 02

  War cabinet.

• 1:12:12Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:12:13Speaker 02

  Members of the, our Department of Defense, essentially.

• 1:12:16Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:12:17Speaker 02

  People say, oh, well, those are balloons.

• 1:12:19Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:19Speaker 02

  The thing was, the thing was, this was controllable far beyond a balloon of the day. This was not just a balloon, not just a dirigible.

• 1:12:31Danny Jones?

  And how the fuck would they use this during the Civil War?

• 1:12:34Speaker 02

  Uh, dropping bombs.

• 1:12:35Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah, true.

• 1:12:36Speaker 02

  But, but here's the thing, they were already using balloons for that. So, you know, I could see during the war saying, uh, oh, okay, this is nice.

• 1:12:46Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:12:47Speaker 02

  So I think that the US, I've proposed this. I think that at the end of the Civil War, possibly the very first black technology project.

• 1:12:59Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:00Speaker 02

  Was development of what became the 1890s airships. Cause you have about a 30 year period.

• 1:13:09Danny Jones?

  Oh.

• 1:13:09Speaker 02

  Before of development, potential development before these 1890s airships start appearing everywhere.

• 1:13:17Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:13:17Speaker 02

  And they're mostly all over the West, okay? You have a guy like Samuel Tillman, who we talked about earlier, who steps off one of these airships. When you look at his background as an army officer, he was a scientist. He was a chemist and a cartographer. Okay? Well, when you get into the airship mystery, uh, in, including the Sonora Aero Club.

• 1:13:45Speaker 02

  There's a lot of chemistry involved.

• 1:13:46Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:13:47Speaker 02

  Okay? And along with the other engineering. And what's one of the useful things about an airship? Mapping, cartography.

• 1:13:56Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:57Speaker 02

  Those are just an example of two of the specialties that Samuel Tillman had. And his career started in the 1860s. So his whole career spans what would have been the secret development, hidden development of this airship technology into the 1890s when he steps off one of these things and identifies himself.

• 1:14:19Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:14:19Speaker 02

  This is why I suggest that the 1890s airships were developed by this, probably the, maybe not the first, but one of the early coalitions between the US government and private industrialists.

• 1:14:36Danny Jones?

  Interesting.

• 1:14:37Speaker 02

  And they brought their resources together. And that's how we had the 1890s airship mystery. Because when you look at the technology, the way people describe, cause they would bring people on board.

• 1:14:50Danny Jones?

  Can you pull up, um, like, uh, illustrations of the 1890s airships specifically?

• 1:14:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. They would describe, for instance, the, the Sonora Aero Club. We know through Delshow that there was that rotating generator cone, which is the bell, which I showed you earlier. Okay? They would describe spinning, rotating objects and devices on the 1890s airship. Miss, uh, airships, mystery airships. And this was.

• 1:15:20Danny Jones?

  It looks like a propeller.

• 1:15:21Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:15:22Danny Jones?

  It was like four propellers on the blimp.

• 1:15:24Speaker 02

  Yeah. Essentially.

• 1:15:27Danny Jones?

  Sort of the left?

• 1:15:28Speaker 02

  It was the same technology, only more advanced as what was on the Sonora Aero Club's.

• 1:15:34Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:15:35Speaker 02

  Devices.

• 1:15:38Danny Jones?

  It is interesting. It looked, that thing on top, kinda looks like a Tic Tac shape. It's like a Tic Tac with wings.

• 1:15:43Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:15:46Danny Jones?

  And then what about the Horton Brothers?

• 1:15:49Speaker 02

  The Horton Brothers come along during World War II.

• 1:15:51Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:15:51Speaker 02

  So here, what you've got for that thread you asked about, how does that lead to today's stuff? What you've got clearly with the, in my opinion, with the Sonora Aero Club and the 1890s airship mystery, you've got a thread.

• 1:16:05Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:16:06Speaker 02

  Of the pursuit of specifically anti-gravity technology in the 19th century. So to what extent rudimentary proof of concept that they had developed that up to the 20th century.

• 1:16:19Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:16:20Speaker 02

  Then you get into the 20th century, right? And that starts, the airships disappear oddly.

• 1:16:28Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:16:28Speaker 02

  But a couple of decades or so, we start having an emergence of other types of UFOs.

• 1:16:35Danny Jones?

  Roswell.

• 1:16:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, by the, by the late 40s. So clearly, somebody has continued the pursuit of anti-gravity technology, which we know is true. Because through the 50s, in open sources, they were talking about it. And then we have T. Townsend Brown.

• 1:16:54Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:16:54Speaker 02

  And in 1958, a lid is clamped down on public discussion. So that's the late 50s. So by the time we get to 2004.

• 1:17:08Danny Jones?

  All of a sudden, it emerges again.

• 1:17:10Speaker 02

  Yeah. Who knows how far they developed it? Now, I was one of the, in the, in my circles, in the community back in 2017, when the Tic Tac was being talked about. I got a lot of, um, you know, um, ire and, and frustration at me because my first assessment was, oh, that's some type of technology.

• 1:17:32Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:17:33Speaker 02

  Was being tested.

• 1:17:34Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:17:34Speaker 02

  Why would they test it on pilots there? Uh, well, first of all.

• 1:17:37Danny Jones?

  Why wouldn't they test it on pilots?

• 1:17:39Speaker 02

  Exactly. I said, they want an honest human reaction to, you know, so they're not going to tell.

• 1:17:45Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:17:46Speaker 02

  The pilots what they're seeing or to expect this.

• 1:17:50Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:17:50Speaker 02

  Well, but what if they freaked out and shot it down? Their planes were unarmed. They were doing a, they were doing a proficiency sortie.

• 1:17:58Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:17:58Speaker 02

  Off of San Diego. Well, the people in the city would have seen it. No, it was so far out.

• 1:18:02Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:18:03Speaker 02

  To see.

• 1:18:03Danny Jones?

  Way offshore.

• 1:18:04Speaker 02

  And it's in that specific zone where technology is tested.

• 1:18:08Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:18:08Speaker 02

  So all the elements were there that it was clearly something. But people didn't want to believe it because it's exciting, it's different, everything. And then eventually, of course, it's come out that, yeah, it was, I still find it interesting that, you know, the shapes of these things. But now I just recently heard, I think it was someone you were talking about, talking to about this, where it was holographic.

• 1:18:36Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:18:36Speaker 02

  I think TD Barnes was talking about that.

• 1:18:39Danny Jones?

  Yeah, he was at Area 51. He was working on the lasers at the projections.

• 1:18:44Speaker 02

  Right. And that to me is pretty interesting.

• 1:18:48Danny Jones?

  Very interesting.

• 1:18:49Speaker 02

  We know that that's been around for decades.

• 1:18:51Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:18:51Speaker 02

  They've talked about that. You guys talked about it. Uh, it's, it's been written about and such, but I still find it fascinating that that can be done.

• 1:19:00Danny Jones?

  To be used, and there's declassified, uh, Peter Lavenda told us about this declassified program using the same technology to project a 3D image of Jesus Christ over Havana. And it would talk to the people.

• 1:19:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:19:15Danny Jones?

  Telling them to overthrow their government.

• 1:19:18Speaker 02

  And I think I heard that they would use various figures depending upon the, they could use various figures or plan to, depending upon the culture, their, you know, religion or something. They could use.

• 1:19:31Danny Jones?

  And that Tic Tac moved like a laser pointer, the way he described it.

• 1:19:34Speaker 02

  Yeah. That was, when I was listening to Barnes talk about that, to me, that just, it clicked. Like, oh, yeah, okay, that's, that's very logical. And it's spoofing the radar. And people have to keep in mind, I think this, I know it's not very popular with some folks, particularly the devotees of the ET hypothesis. But we're in this era where they're wanting to control the narrative. So there's going to be perception management stuff put out there.

• 1:20:08Danny Jones?

  Of course.

• 1:20:08Speaker 02

  And when I say they, I mean, the, the national security community, of course. Particularly the military industrial complex, they've got the big stake in this.

• 1:20:17Danny Jones?

  And, um, Ryan Graves talks about this specific object that he saw that flew right in between him and another plane that he was flying in tandem with.

• 1:20:26Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:20:27Danny Jones?

  He said they were flying from wing to wing with maybe, I don't know, like 50, 50 yards between them or something like this. And he saw a cube inside of a sphere.

• 1:20:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:20:40Danny Jones?

  And there was a patent for a balloon or some sort of a radar spoofing device.

• 1:20:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:20:47Danny Jones?

  For the exact same thing. There's an article written about this. If you, uh, I forget the name of the, the, the website, but it's like a, it's like a, a war reporting technology website where they show the patent of this radar device, radar deflector device that is a cube within a sphere. And it's, it's wild. They, they show the whole thing.

• 1:21:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, I've seen that.

• 1:21:15Danny Jones?

  What is that?

• 1:21:16Speaker 02

  I've seen that.

• 1:21:17Danny Jones?

  See if you can find the actual article. Um, type in, yeah, radar deflector balloon, yeah, that, right there. That's it.

• 1:21:23Speaker 02

  There it is.

• 1:21:24Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah. There it is. Click on that link. Click visit.

• 1:21:31Danny Jones?

  Okay, this isn't the original article I was referring to, but that it gives you this. This might show the patent. Russia's now using balloons to trick Ukraine air defense. Scroll down, see if it shows us the exact.

• 1:21:42Speaker 02

  So that's what's inside the balloon?

• 1:21:44Danny Jones?

  No, this isn't the article I'm thinking of, but that that image that you had before this, before you clicked onto the article, that was the image from that from that patent. I think US was you. Oh, there there it is. TWZ to the left, the jet.

• 1:21:57Danny Jones?

  The war zone. That's the article I was talking about. So are some of the UFO Navy pilots encountering actual airborne radar deflectors? So that is a cube within a sphere. And if you scroll down, or that's not really a cube, but this looks like a cube.

• 1:22:13Speaker 02

  You know, flying, when you're up there in a jet.

• 1:22:16Danny Jones?

  Look, USPTO, it shows you the the US Patent Office link to that thing.

• 1:22:21Speaker 02

  You might, that might look like a cube to you when it's.

• 1:22:24Danny Jones?

  When you're going fast, yeah.

• 1:22:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, and you've got all this stuff you're thinking about. Yeah, a cube in a sphere.

• 1:22:29Danny Jones?

  Right. And on top of that, you know, when you see all these Congress people doing these big televised events and making this big spectacle out of non-human intelligence, NHI, and they're not talking about secret military craft at all.

• 1:22:47Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:22:47Danny Jones?

  It really sends out a lot of red flags for me. I'm like, I'm pinging on like 12.

• 1:22:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, we're not getting anything from the government on this. It's it's dog and pony.

• 1:22:57Danny Jones?

  Yes, for sure.

• 1:22:58Speaker 02

  I again, mentioning my friend Greg Bishop, he once said something years ago that has always stuck with me, and that is, when you're seeing the extraordinary thing, or when somebody's saying, hey, look at this, look over here, turn around and look behind you, because the real show might be what they're trying to distract you from. And I

• 1:23:20Danny Jones?

  Hundred percent.

• 1:23:20Speaker 02

  That's what this is. This is why I say, look, folks, I'm not anti ET. I absolutely think they exist. I have no problem with visitors from other worlds coming here. But it it may not be the version that's popular. It could be, you know, something you hadn't thought of, or something that's just not, again, not the popular version.

• 1:23:52Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm. What is Joseph Farrell's take on all this stuff?

• 1:23:57Speaker 02

  Joseph, he is kind of along the lines we are where, okay, yeah, this is technology that's being

• 1:24:07Speaker 02

  dangled in front of us. Oh, what do you think of that? Oh, where could that be from? And then, you know, the coy government people, oh, my, is this from another world? Yeah.

• 1:24:17Speaker 02

  But he, the big overarching view of his books, in pretty much, he's saying, and he's told me this, he thinks someone's on their way back here. When I say back, they've been here before, they're on their way back. He thinks that the governments, the leaders, so to speak,

• 1:24:42Speaker 02

  they know this. And a lot of the technology development has somewhat of a drastic element to it, because what they may know about who's coming back, which Joseph refers to as the cousins,

• 1:25:02Speaker 02

  might be potentially overwhelming as far as what we can respond to. And that that might be the concern, that it's just a ticking clock, somebody's. And now we've heard versions of this.

• 1:25:18Speaker 02

  So that's, that's, that's what he thinks. That's all his books that he writes about. What he's trying to do is show the reader the pieces of why he thinks this, the the lost technology of the past, maybe why it was developed, maybe why, you know, somebody's on their way back here. But that that's what he thinks.

• 1:25:40Danny Jones?

  When does he think they were here last?

• 1:25:43Speaker 02

  We're talking, you know, the the ancient times.

• 1:25:49Danny Jones?

  Like pre prehistory?

• 1:25:51Speaker 02

  Prehistory, the the Vedic era.

• 1:25:56Speaker 02

  Are you familiar with his Giza Death Star research?

• 1:25:59Danny Jones?

  Vaguely.

• 1:26:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, where he thinks the the Giza Pyramid Complex was weaponized. It was it was an energy device, and it was weaponized. He thinks it's even possible, and forgive me, Joseph, if I'm getting the details wrong, but he thinks it's possible that whatever happened on Mars may have had to do with what was being done with the Giza Pyramids. It's his cosmic war theory is that there were parties out there that.

• 1:26:31Danny Jones?

  Like a war between Mars and Earth?

• 1:26:34Speaker 02

  War between Mars and Earth, or a third party, and Earth got involved. Yeah, that's all in the mix.

• 1:26:39Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:26:41Speaker 02

  And I, I, I think there's something to that. There are those who look at the whole Atlantis. My view of Atlantis isn't the just the literal, it was a city state. I think Atlantis was more of a, if they even call themselves that, more of a civilization that kind of spread out, you know, it was a civilization at a certain level. And it might be that when you look at the legend, and we talked about a nugget of truth somewhere in there, how they messed around with, you know, because Edgar Cayce says this, and others say they messed around with technology and destroyed themselves, that kind of thing. Earth might have been the bad guys in this conflict, or at least whoever was battling it out with

• 1:27:23Speaker 02

  Mars and whoever else was up there. I think that there was a conflict, a cosmic conflict, and the losers ended up here. And that explains the possibly the Quetzalcoatl, the Veracosa, the Tutoditanan, these these people, this culture, this mysterious culture that emerged and taught earth-based humans technologies like agriculture and astronomy, and you've heard of this.

• 1:28:02Danny Jones?

  Uh huh. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:28:03Speaker 02

  I think they were the they were losers in a maybe a big battle or some type of conflict going on. And they came here, and they've been theoretically, hypothetically, trying to develop us up to the point to where we can meet the challenge when their foes return or arrive.

• 1:28:26Danny Jones?

  So this is like the Quetzalcoatl Prometheus Noah.

• 1:28:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:28:30Danny Jones?

  Type archetype. And who does he believe that those archetypes were based from? Like, where were they from?

• 1:28:38Speaker 02

  My view is that they came from another world, another planet, what have you, and they ended up here after being to it was like a possibly some type of civil war going on. Now, some people have said the Anunnaki, I've used that example. Let's say the Anunnaki, they're they're having an internal conflict, factions of the Anunnaki. We read about this and in some of the the stuff with how, you know, some of the Anunnaki, when we were created to be gold mining slaves.

• 1:29:11Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:29:12Speaker 02

  How some of them took pity on us and said, hey, wait a minute, these are our creations, we shouldn't treat them this way, when the other ones were like, no, no, no, they're just our property. And there was a big conflict, and and there was a war between them. It could be that whatever the nugget of truth to that story is, I think, is what we're talking about here. And

• 1:29:35Speaker 02

  they would be the Quetzalcoatl, the Veracosa, and on and so forth.

• 1:29:39Danny Jones?

  I see.

• 1:29:39Speaker 02

  The people who emerge and say, hey, we're gonna, we're gonna teach you this, teach you that, to bring you up to speed.

• 1:29:46Danny Jones?

  I see.

• 1:29:48Speaker 02

  Could be wrong. That could be all nonsense.

• 1:29:51Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it could be. The problem is, all those, all those stories are so interesting.

• 1:29:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:29:58Danny Jones?

  You know? And it really gets squarely when you have like government officials trying to tell you what they think the truth is.

• 1:30:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, because can we ever trust them? They always have an agenda.

• 1:30:11Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:30:11Speaker 02

  They always have an agenda. I've been of the mind that if people really want to know the truth about UFOs, or or things like this, is go do your own researching and do your best to keep it private. I've thrown the number out five years. Like, go out and do your own research on UFOs. Five years, don't say a word. Don't, don't write a book about it. Don't go on podcasts. Don't go on TV. Keep it really private. But go out there and interview witnesses and go to the places where things are seen. And what I've told people when I suggest that is, you might be really amazed at the attention you get.

• 1:30:55Speaker 02

  Because if you're out there digging into these things, but you're not being public about it, the people who know the truth, they're going to notice. Really? Yeah, they're going to say, this person is keeping whatever they're seeing and finding private, but they're out at that place and that place. And, and, you know, they're, what do they know? What are they figuring out? And then the other side of that, too, is the phenomena itself. If there is something to it, if there are people from other worlds and dimensions. That are, you know, the explanation for the real mysterious UFO cases.

• 1:31:33Speaker 02

  They're going to present themselves if you're sincerely seeking them. If you're not doing it just for fame or money. There, I think that's going to be noticed and you might be surprised with the positive results you get. But just like any of this weird stuff, you gotta be prepared for the high strangeness that comes with it. Cause whatever the truth is, you know.

• 1:32:04Danny Jones?

  The hitchhiker effect.

• 1:32:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's, you are, you are going, there is something weird about our reality. Now, whether what we think about UFOs or ghosts on that has any accuracy or not. There is something weird about our, our reality. And, you know, I mentioned that my mentor, sure, he, he guided my career where, yeah, I went to work for the FBI and then I went into the air force and so forth. But this is the same guy that was teaching me to learn psychic stuff. He taught me necromancy for crying out loud. Oh yeah. I was working for the FBI in Manhattan when he taught me specifically a method of necromancy

• 1:32:48Speaker 02

  and told me, get out there and do this and develop this skill. There are people expecting you to know this.

• 1:32:53Danny Jones?

  Can you explain for people who aren't, don't know what this is?

• 1:32:55Speaker 02

  Necromancy is raising dead spirits and getting information from them. Yeah, exactly. I'm like, okay. And he says, there's people expecting you to know this. So, and I asked, of course, who, what people? You don't need to know that yet. Okay, but there I was, I was living on Long Island, working for the FBI in Manhattan. And I would go to the, the old Kings. Oh shoot, it's an old colonial cemetery on Long, Northport, the old Northport Cemetery. You can see it online. And I, under his instructions, I picked a person who'd been dead for over a century.

• 1:33:38Speaker 02

  And I'd be out there doing it, trying to contact the person. And I'll tell you, no ghost ever emerged. I didn't hear a voice in my head. And believe me, at one point I thought, okay, are his buddies somewhere with a camera and a van, you know?

• 1:33:55Danny Jones?

  Is this some sort of hazing ritual?

• 1:33:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, is this a hazing thing? Or is this testing me to see if I will follow, you know, the wild instructions? And then later, when I got into, I was chief of double agent operations for OSI at Wright Patterson for a few years. And when I got into being a case officer, doing double agentry and stuff, and you learn handling. I was just laughing my ass off at times, cause I would think back to the things he would tell me and say, okay. And I'm thinking, oh, that was just beautiful handling.

• 1:34:26Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:34:27Speaker 02

  You know, I thought, okay, was he doing this to me just to see how gullible, you know, I was? Of course, that crossed my mind because it, it's, looking back on it, when I learned handling techniques, I realized, oh, he was handling techniques beautifully. He was using them, you know, on me. Now, one thing he told me in the mid nineties, you might find this interesting, was about Antarctica. And there's a bunch of details to it that, you know, we can talk about sometime, but the basics were, he tells me this in 1996, remember? This is 1996, he's telling me.

• 1:35:10Speaker 02

  That in Antarctica around 1960, there was something found under the ice. They found this giant hole or tunnel or whatever. And they sent a team in there and they found this giant machinery, huge machinery that was very old. And then they encountered some people that were down there and half the team went nuts, right?

• 1:35:32Danny Jones?

  He told you this?

• 1:35:33Speaker 02

  He told me this in 96. And of course, now, don't you be talking about this stuff. And I'm, by this time in 96, I'm an air force officer, I'm an OSI agent. So, you know, he says, don't talk about it. I'm not going to talk about it. So, what? 10 or so years pass, I'm out of working for Uncle Sam, 10 or 15 years. And I'm in the UFO world that I'm in now. And suddenly it becomes popular to talk about Antarctica and this big hole or tunnel that was found and this weird machinery. And I'm sitting here listening to this narrative and they're talking like, oh, this was just discovered. And I'm thinking, okay, I was told this same story in 96 and that it happened in 1960.

• 1:36:18Speaker 02

  My thought was, oh, this was inking the water. Here I am, somebody wants to test if I'm trustworthy. So they tell me this narrative, this mysterious Antarctica narrative, but don't you tell anybody? And of course I didn't. But I'm looking at this emerging as a popular narrative in UFO world, right? And I'm thinking, oh, somebody talked. Somebody was told this same story. They were, this ink was dropped.

• 1:36:49Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:50Speaker 02

  Somebody chose to run their mouth about it. So.

• 1:36:53Danny Jones?

  You think it was like some sort of strategic deception?

• 1:36:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, yeah, I think it was just one of those inking of the water, testing a source. That, you know, we tell you something wild, if you're gonna run your mouth about it or not, I think that's what happened. Somebody used that. Now, am I saying there's nothing weird about Antarctica? No, because I think there is something under that ice. But I just found it interesting that, you know, what appears to me to be an inking of the water scenario has become this thing that people just swear, no, Bosley doesn't know what he's talking about because so and so, you know, SEAL commando, whatever extremo told somebody this, that or the other.

• 1:37:38Speaker 02

  And, and, you know, it's, it kind of reminds me of the, the secret space program nonsense that was going around for a while there, but.

• 1:37:48Danny Jones?

  The secret space program nonsense?

• 1:37:50Speaker 02

  Nonsense, then, yeah. You're familiar with that, aren't you? The Corey Good stuff. The, the, there's Corey Good, Jason Rice, all these guys who claim, it really took off in 2015 and for about three to five years, it was all over UFO world community. These guys who claimed that they would, they were time traveling commandos, working on the moon and Mars and fighting aliens. And then they were time shifted back to their teenage.

• 1:38:23Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:38:24Speaker 02

  Now, the things, certain things in themselves, I mean, I've talked about and other people have talked about with seriousness, but it was, it was this particular group and it was, I think, a calculated diversion from serious classified space program research. Because the original SSP researchers were Catherine Austin Fitz and Joseph Farrell and Paul LaViolette and Mark McCandlish and Richard Dolan. And I was, I spoke at the last conference they had of that era of research in Bastrop, Texas, outside of Austin, in 2015.

• 1:39:08Speaker 02

  And that was, they really were pushing hard to get us to talk about Corey Good from the first day in a Q and A. Yeah. And so my thought, Joseph Farrell's thought and a couple of others, is that the authentic SSP research and investigation, like Fitz and Farrell and them were doing, looking at technological development, looking at where the money was going. This was serious research into, do we have a classified space program? I think it was getting too close to the truth because the audiences at that event were growing each year. I think it was getting too close to the truth. So somebody encouraged and nudged.

• 1:39:50Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:39:51Speaker 02

  The focus on the nonsense stories.

• 1:39:53Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:39:53Speaker 02

  Which ultimately proved to be a lie.

• 1:39:57Danny Jones?

  And Catherine Fitz, her overall view of this, the real secret space program is like all the missing money since before nine 11, like when Rumsfeld came out and said there's trillions of dollars missing. All that stuff's been being funneled to some secret slush fund or something for like top level bankers around the world to be able to escape the earth in light of some environmental cataclysm.

• 1:40:25Speaker 02

  And development of the technologies. And Joseph Farrell takes it a step further with, he, he presents some interesting research on bonds and, and currency that is, it has weird errors, like a spelling error or something. And he can explain it better, but.

• 1:40:54Speaker 02

  Covertly, these have to do with industry that's off Earth. So we don't know what kind of mining activities, for example. You know, that's what he talks about could be going on. Or being planned, being, you know, worked towards. Cause the, the potential resources, you know, that we'll find on these other celestial bodies, I think is keenly on the, near the top of the agenda.

• 1:41:28Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:41:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, I, I, I definitely.

• 1:41:31Danny Jones?

  Like where in particular?

• 1:41:33Speaker 02

  Whatever, the moon, Mars, any place we can get to.

• 1:41:38Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:38Speaker 02

  So I, what I find interesting too, is the establishment of an overt space force. Because unless they're just gonna be in near Earth orbit all the time, okay? Military unit, that, that means you're expanding the number of people that are gonna have access to space, that you're gonna have to put out there in space, which means that many more people are gonna be seeing what's actually up there. If there's something actually up there that we don't know about. So you have all these personnel that will need to be briefed in on stuff. And I'm a little bit jealous because I found out that Air Force OSI is the investigative agency for Space Force.

• 1:42:20Speaker 02

  So I envy those young guys because they, they get to go up in these things or when we establish whatever's established. And that's a whole other conversation. What have we established already? Have we been on the moon?

• 1:42:33Danny Jones?

  Have we?

• 1:42:33Speaker 02

  Have we put boots on the ground on Mars?

• 1:42:35Danny Jones?

  What do you think?

• 1:42:37Speaker 02

  I think we've tried it at least.

• 1:42:39Danny Jones?

  On Mars?

• 1:42:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:42:40Danny Jones?

  What about the moon?

• 1:42:42Speaker 02

  Oh, the moon? I think the moon is an easy one for us to have put people up there.

• 1:42:46Danny Jones?

  You think that footage is real?

• 1:42:48Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:42:48Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:42:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, I, I think that China, Japan, and India, this, these recent images they've sent back were, there it is. There's the stuff where we said it was.

• 1:42:58Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:42:59Speaker 02

  Yeah. And when you really dig into, like, people say that, oh, we, we lost the technology or we forgot the technology to do that. It's.

• 1:43:10Danny Jones?

  We lost all the telemetry data.

• 1:43:11Speaker 02

  Yeah. When you really dig into it, you see, oh, wow, okay, we really did it. Which makes it an even greater feat when you consider compared to today, the primitive computer technology that they went up there with.

• 1:43:30Danny Jones?

  Right, it was one one millionth the computing power of an iPhone.

• 1:43:32Speaker 02

  Right, right. And, yeah, I'm, I'm a believer.

• 1:43:37Danny Jones?

  Are you?

• 1:43:38Speaker 02

  I, I think, I think we really did it, but.

• 1:43:40Danny Jones?

  I don't think I am.

• 1:43:42Speaker 02

  I don't think we were told the truth about all the technology that was involved with getting there. I think it's possible, going back to what we were talking about with what somebody was dabbling with in the 19th century and all that anti-gravity stuff. Again, Joseph Farrell, he suspects that when you watch the, the lunar modules lift off.

• 1:44:10Danny Jones?

  Yeah, that's the goofiest video of all.

• 1:44:13Speaker 02

  It kind of goes whoop.

• 1:44:13Danny Jones?

  And the camera perfectly tracks.

• 1:44:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, but whoop. It's, it's like this weird pull them. Now, people say, well, the gravity, well, the, yeah, no, there's, there's something. He thinks that whatever the Bell technology was, that it went into Apollo as kind of an assist. In other words, rocket technology wasn't gonna cut it, particularly getting back off the moon.

• 1:44:38Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:44:38Speaker 02

  Cause there was a concern about that. Okay, getting them off there, okay, getting them there was less of a concern than getting them back. And, you know, he thinks.

• 1:44:48Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:44:48Speaker 02

  It's a hypothesis that they might've used some type of AG assist. And when you think of Townsend Brown and all that stuff, I mean, 1958, 59, just a decade before, you know, we sent. Now, I don't think Apollo 11, this is a hypothesis of mine, that Apollo 11 was not the first time we did it. Look at it this way, let's say you believe we did it, you agree that we did it. We're in the middle of the, the height of the Cold War, right? We're really going to put on the dog and pony show for the world our first time? No way. The way our Department of Defense works, we're gonna try it secretly to make sure that the stuff can work.

• 1:45:29Speaker 02

  So I think it's possible that there's some unsung Apollo heroes. It, it might've been the same crew, it might've been Armstrong, you know, Aldrin and Collins, but they might've done it before 11, which could explain why, you know, Neil Armstrong, they say, oh, he's just such an aw shucks shy guy. You're the, you're allegedly the first man to step foot on the moon from Earth.

• 1:45:56Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:57Speaker 02

  And you're, you're gonna never do the occasional parade.

• 1:46:01Danny Jones?

  Two interviews.

• 1:46:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, two interviews.

• 1:46:03Danny Jones?

  Two public, public speaking events, ever.

• 1:46:06Speaker 02

  There's something funny about that.

• 1:46:07Danny Jones?

  Very funny, right? Because if you are that person, you're almost gonna be, like, it's gonna be mandatory that you go out.

• 1:46:14Speaker 02

  Right, you would think.

• 1:46:15Danny Jones?

  And sing, you know, tell this tale to everyone.

• 1:46:17Speaker 02

  And no matter how aw shucks you are, you, you, you know, it's like, hey, the country wants to see this. You're gonna, you're gonna be like, yeah, I'm gonna, I'll appear.

• 1:46:24Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:25Speaker 02

  You know, but.

• 1:46:26Danny Jones?

  And also, you know, you say right in the middle of the Cold War, right in the middle of, you know, the, the Apollo moon landing happened right smack dab in the middle of, like, MKUltra, the Gulf of Tonkin, the Vietnam War, Operation Northwoods, JFK's assassination, the list goes on and on of deception and lies that are being covered up. But the one thing that is true is the most incredible feat of humankind, going to the moon.

• 1:46:57Speaker 02

  Well, are you aware that the US Air Force was the originator of our manned space program? Most people aren't. The guys who also were, were involved with bringing the Nazi scientists over under Operation Paperclip, well, they were also guys who were dedicated to putting man in space. And during the 50s.

• 1:47:21Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:47:22Speaker 02

  Mercury was a US Air Force program. The capsule, the suits, everything were being developed. The US Air Force was gonna put man in space. And then, in October of 58, NASA stands up and we're told, the public is told, okay, Air Force, hand over Mercury to NASA, this is now going to be a civilian thing.

• 1:47:42Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:47:43Speaker 02

  Okay, but we have no reason to believe that the Air Force ever actually was told to stand down a manned space program. I think we have had a classified space program from the late 50s on up to the, I would say the establishment of Space Force is effectively going to end, not classified space operations, but anything that was classified that has existed parallel to the public space program, I think is gonna be naturally absorbed into Space Force and eventually become part of Space Force kind of formative history.

• 1:48:22Speaker 02

  But I do think the Air Force continued with a classified manned space program after NASA was founded. So they would've been the ones to attempt a moon landing with that technology to make sure it could work.

• 1:48:39Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:48:39Speaker 02

  That's what I think. To me, it just makes sense. Now, that does not take away from the heroics of anybody who would get in those, those relatively rickety objects and fly to the moon for crying out loud, okay? Apollo 13 is reminder of that.

• 1:48:59Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:59Speaker 02

  It was incredibly courageous and dangerous and such. But I just suspect that Apollo 11 was not the first time, I think.

• 1:49:08Danny Jones?

  Interesting.

• 1:49:08Speaker 02

  You know, and I, like I said, I think we've tried boots on the ground on Mars. Could be wrong.

• 1:49:15Danny Jones?

  And then there's that guy, Gary McKinnon, I believe his name was, that hacked NASA.

• 1:49:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:49:19Danny Jones?

  And he said he found this computer with this file named, uh, terrestrial officers or something along the lines of that. And he saw this cigar shaped metallic craft hovering above Earth's atmosphere.

• 1:49:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:49:35Danny Jones?

  In like, uh, this was like 2002, I believe that this was. And then, okay, whatever, you got this crazy kid who seems he hacked NASA and, and said he saw this crazy thing or whatever, who's obsessed with UFOs, like, it's one guy hearsay, right? There's no hard evidence.

• 1:49:55Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:49:55Danny Jones?

  But then they pursue one of the most aggressive extradition campaigns in the history of the United States against him.

• 1:50:01Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:50:02Danny Jones?

  Like, what's that?

• 1:50:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, that says to me that, what it looks like, he got too close to what he was talking about.

• 1:50:12Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:12Speaker 02

  And something that they clearly don't want people knowing.

• 1:50:16Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm. Speaking of Operation Paperclip.

• 1:50:20Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:50:20Danny Jones?

  You talk a lot about that.

• 1:50:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:50:22Danny Jones?

  And essentially, what is your view of Operation Paperclip? It seems to veer from the traditional explanation of what it was.

• 1:50:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, I presently and have come to a current conclusion, that could change if some drastic or new information arose. But I see, I now see Operation Paperclip as a Trojan horse invasion. When you look closely at the Operation Paperclip material, you find out that it wasn't our idea, it was suggested by a couple of the German scientists.

• 1:51:01Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:51:01Speaker 02

  And said, hey, you know, we can get a lot of our guys if you, you know, bring us over. And so we did. And I had been turned on to a book titled The Thousand Year Conspiracy by a guy named Winkler. What's interesting was he'd been a media guy in Europe. In fact, he's credited with, Disney Studios hired him to introduce Mickey Mouse to European audiences. So he was a media guy, he was a press guy. Well, in 1937.

• 1:51:39Speaker 02

  He publishes 1937, remind you, two years before World War II starts. He publishes this book, The Thousand Year Conspiracy, in which he lays out, going back to the medieval era, what the so-called Prussian culture developed as far as a method of invasion through, oh, what's ingratiation? And it started with what this, this culture of, of Prussian junkers, this, these Prussian merchants did to the

• 1:52:24Speaker 02

  Teutonic Knights. They ingratiated themselves, made themselves indispensable to the Teutonic Knights, and then they betrayed them. They ingratiated themselves to enemies of the Teutonic Knights and aided those enemies in destroying the Teutonic Knights. And then through German history, they did the same thing to the, the ones that they teamed up with to destroy the Teutonic Knights, and on and so forth. And this is how they ultimately, that so-called, and I say so-called because there were actual Prussians, but this particular group, okay, they took over that part of the Germanic territory and took the label. They started calling themselves Prussians.

• 1:53:09Speaker 02

  So they're not authentic Prussians, but the, the Prussians as we know them. And they were greatly behind the drive for German unification. Okay? And they achieved that. These are also the same Prussians associated with Nimza, the mysterious Nimza. Well, as you get into, my research on this, as I got into the 20th century, it kind of stopped, I, I want to say cold, by World War I, you know, leading up to World War II. And, and I, I had done the 19th century research of all this stuff. And I, I began to realize, wait a minute. Okay, as I look at the players,

• 1:53:50Speaker 02

  these end up being the guys behind the rise of Nazi Germany. Okay? And the whole branding thing, the fascistic branding thing, you know, there are marketing guys who still consider the Nazi swastika as the greatest corporate logo, the most effective corporate logo ever used, right? Um, we've, we've heard about this.

• 1:54:15Speaker 02

  But these guys who I've tagged with Nimza,

• 1:54:21Speaker 02

  these guys had a vision that the Nazis would greatly advance. Okay? So when it became clear, this is in my hypothesis, when it became clear that Nazi Germany was going to lose the war, I argue that it was these guys, these Prussian guys that I've labeled the Nimza because they're the, essentially the descendant crew of the industrialists and such from the 19th century. They decided, okay, it's time to do what we, what we did to the Teutonic Knights and their enemies and so forth through history. It's time to ingratiate ourselves to the big winners of this war, the United States.

• 1:55:06Speaker 02

  Hey, guys, we got an idea. Bring us over. We'll help you get ahead of those pesky Soviets. We'll, we'll bring you our industry and our technology. And of course, we took that apple and bit right into it. And when you, when I read Winkler's book, it was one of the most, and, and I looked at it from the perspective of what's happened to the United States since the end of World War II culturally, politically, and the, the explosion of our military industrial complex and such. It, that book, it was heartbreaking because I realized we were invaded. And the JFK assassination indeed was a coup, was a move.

• 1:55:48Speaker 02

  And ever since then, our, our politicians have been influenced, controlled, what have you. Our society, for the most part, in America, there's this post-World War II fascist international that Joseph Farrell talks about. He calls it the Nazi international, that basically has their claws in our, our government and our military industrial complex. And when you, again, when you compare our history and you compare it to what Winkler wrote in that book, published in 1937, mind you. This wasn't something he wrote in 19-

• 1:56:31Danny Jones?

  What was the name of that book by Winkler?

• 1:56:32Speaker 02

  The Thousand Year Conspiracy. You can find it free online, a PDF online.

• 1:56:41Speaker 02

  It's very disturbing. Now, the problem with Winkler that a lot of people have, and I totally understand the problem they have, is Winkler in that book unfortunately doesn't provide, um, references or footnotes. Okay, but when, when you compare it to German history, it's, you know. And so, this is my take on it. My take is that that's what happened to us through Operation Paperclip, that it was indeed a Trojan horse. And our military industrial complex has been, you know, driving things. Um, the, the financial world,

• 1:57:22Speaker 02

  yeah, is involved in this too.

• 1:57:24Danny Jones?

  Well, didn't Russia also get a lot of the Nazi scientists?

• 1:57:28Speaker 02

  Yes, they did. I have not, I have not done a deep dive on, there's an airship mystery connected to, airship builders and stuff connected to Russia, dating back to the 19th century that I'd been turned on to. I haven't done a deep dive on that yet. I haven't done a deep dive on this same post-World War II era from this perspective on the Soviet world and then Russia. I have a feeling I'm going to find some things that, you know, uh, will corroborate, you know, elements of the hypothesis, but might even, might even go against it too, so.

• 1:58:08Danny Jones?

  Yeah. What do you got, Steve? The Soviet Union recorded more, recruited more German specialists, around 2,500, 2,700 scientists, or roughly 60% compared to the United States, they got 40%. Interesting.

• 1:58:21Speaker 02

  What's also interesting about that is the scientists they got were, as Joseph Farrell and Laviellet and others have said, they, a lot of them were, or the main ones, the key ones, were working with a, a different physics than the West. There, this is where we get nowadays, um, it is said that Putin has encouraged asymmetric military technology, something that's, that's different. Whereas we focus on what we focus on, they might have been developing more exotic technologies. I don't know the specifics.

• 1:59:04Speaker 02

  Um, and that would be a product of their German scientists that they got because-

• 1:59:11Danny Jones?

  Well, I mean, look at this, the fucking Ukraine war.

• 1:59:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:59:14Danny Jones?

  And look at the Iran war. There's no exotic technology being used, nothing. They're using traditional shit. And, you know, they're beating up our military with, you know, cheap drones and-

• 1:59:27Speaker 02

  So if the exotic stuff is really being developed, who are they saving it for?

• 1:59:32Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:59:32Speaker 02

  What are we saving it for?

• 1:59:33Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:59:34Speaker 02

  Are those guys coming from somewhere else?

• 1:59:38Speaker 02

  Or are they planning to fake? You know, there's talk about that. We, we talked about the projection of Jesus in the skies over, with this projection technology, are they, are, are they planning to stage, you know, of, of a false flag invasion? And as some people say, what if in the middle of the false flag, the real guys show up? I mean, this could get crazier.

• 2:00:07Danny Jones?

  Yeah, maybe they're going to use some sort of fake alien invasion to sort of reset the economy. You know, with all the debt and all the inflation, there's no way we can, we can, you know, bring this back to nor, to normal. So if we stage an alien invasion, maybe that'll be a way to just reset the economy.

• 2:00:25Speaker 02

  Reset the economy and also clamp down on human rights more than people realize.

• 2:00:29Danny Jones?

  Yeah. And that's the other thing about this whole military industrial complex is that that's all becoming privatized now. You know, with companies like SpaceX and Palantir and, you know, all of this AI stuff that's happening where they're all merged.

• 2:00:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:00:45Danny Jones?

  Like the SpaceX stuff, the surveillance stuff with Palantir, and all the AI, they're all working together and they're all taking all of this money from the government. And that's getting scary.

• 2:00:57Speaker 02

  Yes. Very much so. When you repeatedly hear what little regard some of these guys have for us as individuals, you know,

• 2:01:10Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:10Speaker 02

  We're just seen as a big collective.

• 2:01:13Danny Jones?

  And they're all buying giant pieces of land and building bunkers in Argentina.

• 2:01:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, what's up with that?

• 2:01:18Danny Jones?

  And New Zealand.

• 2:01:20Speaker 02

  What's, what's up with that?

• 2:01:21Danny Jones?

  Patagonia.

• 2:01:25Speaker 02

  There was, um, on, you mentioned New Zealand. When I was, I think in my first year with the FBI, my first wife had an in-law. He was a scientist for, civilian scientist for NASA. And he was involved with what's called, what was called the Kuiper Aerial Observatory. It was a KC-135 that had telescopes on it and such. And he said, hey, let me give you a tour of it. I said, okay. So I took a tour of this and I noticed that all the crew members had military haircuts and were wearing military flight suits. And at the time, I was still kinda early in this.

• 2:02:07Speaker 02

  Despite my mentor, I'm thinking, wow, this seems to be a military crew on a NASA. Hmm. But it was at Moffett Field, which is a naval air station. And he told me that their mission was once or twice a year, in a particular, like, few weeks of the year, they would fly to New Zealand. Because the part of the sky you could see from down there was their mission. There, at that time, that's what he told me. Their whole mission was just that piece of the sky that you can see down in New Zealand. And he didn't elaborate further, but since then, I've wondered.

• 2:02:45Danny Jones?

  Is it still there?

• 2:02:46Speaker 02

  The, the, the, the thing they were looking at?

• 2:02:50Danny Jones?

  Or do they still have like a base in New Zealand?

• 2:02:52Speaker 02

  Oh, I, I don't know. It was the airplane that, that, you know, I thought, okay. And they would only go down certain times of the year. Yeah, it was this KC there. Is, is, yeah, the Kuiper Airborne Observatory. I think it's been retired since then.

• 2:03:07Danny Jones?

  We had this lady.

• 2:03:08Speaker 02

  That's not a, you know what? I, I don't, I recall it being a different aircraft, but maybe, I, maybe it wasn't a 135.

• 2:03:15Danny Jones?

  That's a wild looking plane.

• 2:03:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:03:17Danny Jones?

  We had this girl on the podcast the other day who, um, she's a spearfisher. And she said she went to this island off the coast, off the west coast of South America.

• 2:03:31Danny Jones?

  Do you remember the name of that island?

• 2:03:32Speaker 02

  Was it Cocoa Island?

• 2:03:33Danny Jones?

  Cocoa Island. And there was this decommissioned NASA base there. And when, and when she asked about what that base was for, they said it was for, uh, monitoring the Apollo missions.

• 2:03:47Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 2:03:47Danny Jones?

  But I had never heard.

• 2:03:51Danny Jones?

  Yeah, punch in on.

• 2:03:52Speaker 02

  It wasn't Cocoa Island. It was, it was right, it was here.

• 2:03:55Danny Jones?

  No, it was Cocoa Island.

• 2:03:57Speaker 02

  Cocoa Island was, was where people were getting bitten by sharks.

• 2:04:00Danny Jones?

  I think that, oh, was it?

• 2:04:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:04:03Danny Jones?

  No, this isn't the island.

• 2:04:05Speaker 02

  That's St. Helena. That's where you know.

• 2:04:07Danny Jones?

  I'm pretty sure it was Cocoa Island, bro. Punching on Cocoa Island. I bet you find that NASA spot.

• 2:04:17Danny Jones?

  Keep going. No NASA base? Oh, wow, we were wrong.

• 2:04:21Speaker 02

  It was somewhere between.

• 2:04:23Danny Jones?

  You'll find, see if you can find it. Yeah. Go back to her, if you go back to her episode and then look at the timestamps, it's in the beginning.

• 2:04:29Speaker 02

  Somewhere in here.

• 2:04:29Danny Jones?

  But that was weird. It was like, I wanna say it was more, it was in the Pacific, bro. I don't think it was in.

• 2:04:35Speaker 02

  It was totally here. Because there, because there was no place, there was no land.

• 2:04:40Danny Jones?

  I know, but I wanna say it was more in the Pacific, in the Pacific Ocean. I think you're in the wrong ocean.

• 2:04:47Danny Jones?

  But yeah, that, that was kinda weird to me, why there would be a NASA base way over there that I'd never heard of. That was specifically used to monitor the Apollo missions.

• 2:04:53Speaker 02

  For the telemetry. Cause particularly back then, with the primitive technology, you literally had to have stations.

• 2:05:00Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:05:01Speaker 02

  And of course, again, during the Cold War, right? They're gonna, they would be, oh, there it is.

• 2:05:07Danny Jones?

  Oh, you were right. I was wrong. What's the name of this island?

• 2:05:10Speaker 02

  It is, well, let's find out.

• 2:05:17Speaker 02

  It's no name. Ascension.

• 2:05:19Danny Jones?

  Ascension. That's what it was. Ascension Island.

• 2:05:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, but here's an old NASA site.

• 2:05:27Speaker 02

  No longer used. Back in the 60s, I think, when they didn't have satellites.

• 2:05:31Danny Jones?

  NASA's everywhere, man. I wonder what NASA bases they have in Antarctica.

• 2:05:36Speaker 02

  I'm sure they have something. A lot of people don't know that NASA is a, a national defense agency.

• 2:05:42Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:05:42Speaker 02

  They wonder, how can they keep this secret? It's a civilian. It's, in its charter, they are subject to, if the DOD says you won't talk about this, they won't talk about it. So because that's in their charter, they have to keep things quiet. So whatever the guys, uh, saw up on the moon, that wasn't reported to us, that, that would be why. So.

• 2:06:08Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:10Speaker 02

  Are you familiar with the, the wild story about the airship, uh, that allegedly attempted to go to Mars in 1903?

• 2:06:20Danny Jones?

  No.

• 2:06:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, this is, this, one of the more interesting airship stories. In a book written by Tim Swartson, Sean Castile, and this came from Jim Keith. I don't know if you're familiar with the late Jim Keith. He was a conspiracy author. And a source told him about Nikola Tesla being commissioned to design, engineer, an airship for a private group that wanted to go to Mars with it. Crazy stuff. 1903, going to Mars, right? So I'm working on my research and I learned about Oliver Heaviside. Oliver Heaviside was a guy who was not a professional scientist or mathematician.

• 2:07:02Speaker 02

  He just was a, kind of a genius. And Heaviside developed this idea, Gravito Electromagnetics, GEM, Jim. And hypothetically, using this idea and technology that would make it work, you could create an energy bubble around an object, okay? That, again, hypothetically, you could have a life support system inside that bubble.

• 2:07:35Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:07:36Speaker 02

  And he came up with this in the 1890s. So here you have Heaviside thinking about this kind of idea and developing it and publishing it. And then you have these guys in the following decade.

• 2:07:50Speaker 02

  And in Jim, GEM is something right up Tesla's alley, you have to wonder, okay, was there somebody crazy enough to say, hey, we, we've got this anti-gravity technology that our private little group has. We want you to engineer something. We're gonna use Jim for life support. Now, if they tried it, they could have died the minute they hit the Van Allen bounce. We don't know. You know, but, but it is a story that exists out there that is, it, it's kind of a food for thought thing. And then going back to the nugget of truth, okay, did somebody try something like this?

• 2:08:29Speaker 02

  Who knows? Because you do have the, the UFO stories going, you know, forward into the 20th century. And.

• 2:08:36Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:37Speaker 02

  It just, this is where the, the breakaway thing, there is a gap, admittedly, in the research I've done. And as I said before, that gap is the early 20th century, okay? And then post-World War II.

• 2:08:55Speaker 02

  Because like what Dolan points out, as far as breakaway civilizations and stuff I'm talking about, goes, yeah, you could, that makes some rational sense, post-World War II, breakaway groups, that kinda thing.

• 2:09:08Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:10Speaker 02

  But then you have the 19th century research that I and some others have done, which show, you know, okay, breakaway group potential. But there's that gap, that 1900 to the end of World War II, 1945.

• 2:09:24Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 2:09:25Speaker 02

  What were they doing? And all we have, as far as stories go, is this night, crazy 1903, you know, journey to Mars thing. So for what it's worth, it's kind of out there.

• 2:09:38Danny Jones?

  Yeah, the thing with the Townsend Brown stuff is fascinating as well.

• 2:09:41Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:09:42Danny Jones?

  Because, you know, he was like on the cutting edge of all this stuff. And like you mentioned earlier, there was that, uh, that thing at Chapel Hill, North Carolina, that big convention where they had, where he was there with, um,

• 2:09:57Speaker 02

  Um, I forget the other guy's name. There was like some brilliant mathematician there who his father, him and his father, his father was like on the cutting edge like of, uh, of anti-gravity physics. DeWitt, Bryce DeWitt was one of them. Um, and then, you know, right after that, in the early 50s, the whole thing went dark. And there was also like a strange connection to, um, an island in the Bahamas. Oh, the whole thing with the Caroline group that dark journalist had, wow. Um, check out his stuff on the Caroline group, T. Townsend Brown. It's the ship that Brown was on in the twenties. It's a yacht and they had this, this, this blows me away because I love weird stuff like

• 2:10:41Speaker 02

  this. There's an original edition of Alice in Wonderland, Lewis Carroll's Alice in Wonderland, which I believe includes Alice through the looking glass. Mm hmm. Encased and Brown was on there on this boat. This is going back to the 1920s, I think. And this was encased and he said, why is this under glass like this? Well, in case the boat goes down, the book will be saved. And yet, okay, what's going on here? You could obviously, when you look at Alice through the looking glass, you could say, was there something Lewis Carroll encoded in this book about an understanding of other dimensions? What the heck? And then there's Brown and they're looking for Atlantis.

• 2:11:26Speaker 02

  Right. Yeah, there and, and that gets into the whole thing where then, um, what, uh, Colonel Sanders of Kentucky Fried Chicken, his daughter, I think, was one of the financiers of the hunt for Atlantis. Really? With Jacques Cousteau and. What? You, you need to, Daniel List, I'm telling you, his, his. He's the, he's the dark journalist. He's dark journalist. Yeah. And he's done an outstanding series. Yeah. Over the last, my gosh, six years or so. And it. So Colonel Sanders's daughter. Yeah. Was one of the people hunting, funding the hunt for Atlantis. Yes. Yeah. Off of the coast of Cuba and, and you got Ernest Hemingway in the mix.

• 2:12:11Speaker 02

  You've got, um, you know, what, it's, it's, yeah, it's, it's mind blowing. Um, when you consider how seriously these people were taking this. So there's something there. There's something there, but again, he, he's done the really outstanding research on that. But, uh, this gap, yeah, that's, it's a gap I can't explain, but we have in this gap, things like what we're talking about, T. Townsend Brown, the search for anti-gravity, the, the mysterious Wilsons. Right. Um, what my dad encountered in the late 50s, uh, was

• 2:12:51Speaker 02

  there, there was the elder Wilson and the younger Wilson. And what my dad said that he was one of the guys that witnessed this, they had these, I have no way to corroborate this. Okay. This is hearsay from what my dad told me before he died. These platforms that had a little like finger of metal sticking out of one corner and they would tap that finger and it would make it buoyant with anti-gravity. And then they had a slide control that would make it go up and bring it down. And

• 2:13:25Speaker 02

  I had already been an OSI agent when he told me this. So I, I'm, I'm trained and experienced in some interrogation and questioning techniques. So, yeah, I used them on my dad. Cause I'm like, okay, is he BSing me or does, and my conclusion is, is that he himself really believed he was telling the truth. Hmm. So when he was telling this story, to him, he was telling the God's honest truth. But the problem is my dad got into the air force about the time the air force was developing its own MK Ultra program. And he was in the aerospace medicine division and the aerospace medicine division is where air force psychology is. And air force psychology are the ones, of all the

• 2:14:09Speaker 02

  military branches, the air force got the most turned on with MK Ultra. Really? According to the source, CIA sources. Oh yeah. And they developed their own program. And remember in 74, 75, when the church committee made the CIA come clean about what they'd been doing with MK Ultra and related things, the air force wasn't there. To this day, the air force has never been made to come clean with what they've been doing with MK Ultra. And I, probably one of my old bosses is like, possibly shut up with that crap. Yeah. I think about that stuff all the time. It's like with what they declassified in the church commission, which is some fucking horrific stuff. Oh yeah. The crap they did was. I mean, Operation Northwoods, you know, some of this stuff is unimaginable. Yeah.

• 2:14:54Speaker 02

  So like, if that's what they let loose, like what shit did they burn that will never see the light of day? Oh, right. And how long, uh, I argue that, you know, like, like with my dad, I. Richard Helms, he was one of the people that was burning all that? Yeah. I think they put a false narrative. It, it's possible that what they did was he was involved with some other classified thing. And when that ended, they were toying with MK Ultra as a means to keep secrets. Cause back then it was new. It's like, okay, guys, you're going to work on this ultra secret project. And when your time is done on the project, we're going to use this new technique. So you won't even have to worry about saying the wrong thing. And they put a false narrative in there in case they get the inkling to start talking about it. And what comes up is this wild story of. Right.

• 2:15:39Speaker 02

  Floating, you know, that's what I think is possible. So of course my dad would believe it. Cause that was what was laid in there. Now, the rest of the story is I'm still on active duty in the late nineties. I'm told by someone in superior rank to me that, oh yeah, they used hypnosis on your dad to suppress what happened in the 50s. This is why I am convinced that, you know, that's, that's what it was. Have you ever read Tom O'Neill's book, Chaos? Oh, yes. What'd you make of that? Oh boy. There is something that jumped off the pages at me that I've not seen anyone pursue.

• 2:16:22Speaker 02

  And I've been, I was kind of keeping it close to vest, but you asked. Um, wow.

• 2:16:31Speaker 02

  Curtis LeMay? The whole aerospace connection to these serial killers? Are you familiar with that? No. Um, there's this weird, there've been serial killers who's, who either they themselves, or they had a parent who worked in aerospace. And here you have during the Manson period, this stuff going on. You got Curtis LeMay who's connected to, socially to this guy named Reeve Whitson. Oh, yeah. You've heard of Reeve Whitson? Reeve Whitson is the CIA guy who was the first one to report the murders, right? Yeah. And he. Oh shit. He's the guy in that book that like spooked me the most.

• 2:17:13Speaker 02

  Exactly. Exactly. That's what I'm talking about. So you see what I'm seeing. Whitson, right? Whitson, you just go, what, wait, okay. The thing that really makes the hair stand up on my neck was what did Colonel Tate really know about the murder of his daughter? What did his wife? Colonel Sharon Tate's dad? Sharon Tate's father. What's? He was. US Air Force Colonel Tate. And his wife and he became estranged. When you go back and look at Chaos again, I get the impression that she suspected something or learned something he knew that he, I, I, I wonder what Colonel Tate knew about what happened there at the house that night.

• 2:17:58Speaker 02

  Cause you got Curtis LeMay in the mix there. Tate and LeMay, you know, they were, had to have been communicating. Okay. You know, cause LeMay was tied in with a bunch of people in LA and stuff there. And LeMay was kind of a mixed bag himself. Right. Um, what, what he, uh, ran for president with, uh, was it George Wallace? Hmm. Or some, yeah, he, he was, what the heck? He, he was on a presidential ticket. But yeah, Reeve Whitson, you know, is the guy that really is the big question mark in that. But, but I. Yeah. What else do we know about Reeve Whitson?

• 2:18:41Speaker 02

  Uh, all I know is what's in that book. And that is that, you know, and agency. And so the story, I can't, I'm vague on the story. So Reeve Whitson somehow discovered the murders before anyone else did, right? He and there was another guy, I think, that was with him. And this had to do with finding the eyeglasses, right? You remember that part where there was somebody's prescription eyeglasses that were at the house that I think were taken because they didn't want them to be found by the police. Right.

• 2:19:18Danny Jones?

  He made like an anonymous, he made like an anonymous tip. Or something to someone really early that morning or a couple hours after the murders happened.

• 2:19:28Speaker 02

  And remember.

• 2:19:30Danny Jones?

  A CIA guy makes an anonymous tip about the most infamous murders in American history.

• 2:19:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, and Sharon's car, remember, was at the shop. It was being worked on or something. So the, the, the hypothesis is that the killers didn't expect her to be there. And maybe, this is horrible, I mean, when you think about it, because the man's her father, but what, what did Colonel Tate, Paul Tate, what did, what did he learn about what was going on? What did he, what maybe did he know? What, what might this had to do with, could it have been someone who had been in aerospace or connected with aerospace? Who was MK altered or whatever, was one of the, you know, and went nuts? And that was the connection?

• 2:20:17Speaker 02

  They realized, uh-oh, one of our, another one of our own, you know? Who knows? We're just kind of throwing spaghetti on the wall with this right now because it is a thread that doesn't make sense yet. You're right, CIA guy, he's the one to first make the call. He's socially connected to Curtis LeMay, big Air Force general who's very much involved with aerospace.

• 2:20:45Danny Jones?

  Wait, Whitson was?

• 2:20:46Speaker 02

  No, no, no. Yeah, Whitson and LeMay.

• 2:20:48Danny Jones?

  Oh, I didn't know Whitson was tied to LeMay.

• 2:20:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, they, they, or if we go back and read the book, they were, that's how I recall.

• 2:20:56Danny Jones?

  So Whitson was connected to Curtis LeMay and Tate's father was also connected.

• 2:21:02Speaker 02

  Was a US Air Force Colonel. He definitely was acquainted with, with LeMay. But you, you have, and, and LeMay's presence represents, why does this aerospace connection keep popping up? Well. That could go back to T. Townsend Brown and the anti-gravity and all, and all, not directly to T. Townsend Brown with the murders, but to that element of exotic research. Remember, that was going on through the post-war, the 50s into the 60s. And these guys who developed our advanced aerospace technology also, you know, were

• 2:21:47Speaker 02

  from the same culture and professional culture and such that developed MKUltra. And where did they all come from? Germany, Nazi Germany. So again, if you have this post-war fascist organization that's driving our aerospace, driving whatever MKUltra is doing to our society or being used to do to our society, which we learned some of that through the Church Committee hearings with the CIA. Maybe there is your aerospace connection, or maybe that would explain the aerospace connection. And, you know, because if one of their own has lost their minds and is out there doing

• 2:22:31Speaker 02

  these nefarious murders, they're going to want to cover it up is what I'm getting to. So Whitson might have been the guy to get in there and clean up any connection to these guys.

• 2:22:42Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:22:44Speaker 02

  That's, that's what I think.

• 2:22:47Danny Jones?

  That's fucking crazy, man.

• 2:22:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, Whitson, we don't know. We, I, I think we, that, that the, the surface, I wonder what O'Neill found out about Whitson that he hasn't talked about.

• 2:23:01Danny Jones?

  Yeah. I need to give, I need to hit up old Tommy after this.

• 2:23:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, see if he'll talk about, about Whitson. You know, I've, I've wondered, like I said, my mentor passed away. He, he was, he would have been my first go-to. Okay. I need to talk to you about Curtis LeMay and this other guy and, and, you know, it probably would have been one of those, we'll talk when I can see you. Because that's usually when he would tell me the wildest stuff. It's never, obviously, over the phone. But he's gone, so I don't really have someone like that. And, you know. OSI is not going to give me anything. I mean, I've been out of that for, since 90.

• 2:23:47Danny Jones?

  Now, that, that house, the Tate house, that wasn't on the 33 latitude, was it?

• 2:23:58Speaker 02

  Boy, you would ask that. I haven't looked at that. I haven't looked at that. It, it's, it, it is within, it's definitely within the range. You got to remember the, the way these latitude lines go, when we look on a map, it's like a skinny line when people draw this out.

• 2:24:20Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:24:21Speaker 02

  But you're talking, when you get down on the ground, it's a, it's a wide influence of energy. So essentially, it's going to be affected by this energy. Anything through LA and, and all of that.

• 2:24:35Danny Jones?

  So a very high level, break down this idea of, you wrote this book about the 33 latitude.

• 2:24:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:24:45Danny Jones?

  And Disneyland and all the connections to it. I'm, I'm generally aware of like, all the historical events that happened on the 33rd latitude.

• 2:24:54Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 2:24:55Danny Jones?

  But I've always wondered, like, is this just sort of weird coincidence? We're cherry picking stuff? Or is there, is there some deeper connection to this?

• 2:25:03Speaker 02

  Well, to me, the, the, the, the big pointer to that, to answer your question, as far as Disneyland is concerned, is the guy who engineered it. A guy named Cornelius Vanderbilt Wood, C.V. Wood. When the Disneys were first taking seriously the idea of building the park, they went to SRI, the Stanford Research Institute, and they were assigned two guys. One of them was a guy named, I think, Harry Price. He was the numbers guy, you know, the economics of this, blah, blah, blah. But Wood was the engineer for them, the, the big thinker for them, who was hired to

• 2:25:48Speaker 02

  help them locate where to build the park. The Disneys had an idea for, for different ideas. Wood is the one that told them about the Anaheim site. He said, hey, there's 40 acres of Citrus Grove in Anaheim that I think would be the perfect location for Disneyland. So he's the guy that would have known about the intersection of the three telluric currents. Popularly misidentified is ley lines. A ley line is a different thing than a telluric current. But the telluric current is an extreme low frequency energy that runs through the planet.

• 2:26:26Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:26:27Speaker 02

  When a planet is forming, telluric currents help form the terrain when it's malleable, you know, in its volcanic stage. And then when things solidify, the telluric current continues to flow through the terrain that has formed. It's, this is a real scientific thing. And a guy like C.V. Wood and SRI, an organization like SRI, would have known about telluric current. It's, it's an engineering thing. So Wood selects this, and the Disneys say, oh, okay. And he goes, yeah, having it in Anaheim. And the numbers guy Price said, yeah, having it in Anaheim is, and that proved true. So C.V.

• 2:27:08Speaker 02

  Wood was a guy that was friends with a guy named Thomas Swift. Okay, Tom Swift, who was a millionaire philanthropist and very famous for going on a search for the yeti, the abominable snowman. But he was also very much into psychic phenomena. And he started what was called the Mind Science Foundation with C.V. Wood as one of the founders. So in C.V. Wood, you have a guy who's aware of the telluric currents, okay? And he would have been aware, if we're right about the, the intensity or whatever, the intersection of the three telluric currents in Disneyland, what we know as Disneyland,

• 2:27:51Speaker 02

  he's the guy that would have known that that was there. But he's also into psychic things. So what I argue is that he engineered Disneyland, physical Disneyland, to work as a psychotronic device on human consciousness. Because he had the carousel placed right on top of where this, this alleged intersection of three telluric current lines are. You got three lines, the energy's more intensified. And, and the hypothesis is that the carousel, in its rotation throughout the day, draws up and distributes the energy through the park. Now Disneyland is built in a bowl, okay?

• 2:28:35Speaker 02

  It has this berm going around it because it was built down into a bowl. So you have the carousel drawing up the energy, distributing it through the park. But when it gets to the berm, it turns back in and it kind of stays contained within the park. Why would he have done this?

• 2:28:52Speaker 02

  To enhance the experience of the park goer. But Woods, the kind of guy, because of his interests, he would have been aware of the Latitude 33 stuff that, you know, you well know and has been talked about a lot. He's the kind of guy. Now Walt ended up firing him by like, I think 59 or 60 or maybe before then, because he didn't like C V Wood going around saying, I'm the guy who built Disneyland. Walt was like, hey, wait a minute. This wasn't your idea, buddy. So C V Wood left and he was involved with the building of Six Flags, the first Six Flags park outside of Dallas, I think.

• 2:29:36Speaker 02

  And he did some of the same principles because one of those Telluric Current situations goes through the where the JFK assassination site was and through Dallas. And so he attempted and that park is still open. Right. From what I understand for years, but a couple of other parks that he engineered were not placed on the Telluric Current and they didn't succeed. So it's kind of interesting that Disneyland is, you know, I think that they disengaged the device when they redesigned Fantasyland in 1982, that it does not work.

• 2:30:12Danny Jones?

  They disengaged the device.

• 2:30:13Speaker 02

  They moved the carousel.

• 2:30:15Danny Jones?

  What is, what is the carousel?

• 2:30:16Speaker 02

  It's the merry go round. It's just literally a merry go round, but a rotating spinning device. This is my hypothesis, a rotating spinning device on top of that intersection of the Telluric Current draws up that energy and distributes it out. The spin draws it up, you know, and as it's rotating it.

• 2:30:41Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:30:41Speaker 02

  Spreads it out. That's the hypothesis. As crazy as it sounds. And it could just be a nutty idea, but you know, I go into it in the book. Why the, the whys and wherefores and the experience that I had there in, in 81 with the old man Alfred. You talk about synchronicity. I had in February of 81, when this happened, I met the old man Alfred. And then 11 years later, I'm in Manhattan, working for the FBI. I'm at a bookstore. And the guy introduced himself, he said his name was Alfred back in 81.

• 2:31:25Speaker 02

  92, I'm in a bookstore in Manhattan, the Colosseum bookstore. And I'm, I see this book, The Old Straight Track, which is about ley lines in England. And it was written in 1925. It was written by a guy named Alfred Watkins. So I open up the book and there's a photo of Alfred Watkins. And I'm looking at the man I saw at Disneyland in 1981. Also named Alfred. And I'm like, this, this ain't funny. This is impossible. And I learned later that the year that I saw that book, the Alfred Watkins book was the year that C V Wood died. So synchronicity, yeah. And it's years later that I'm researching all of this

• 2:32:09Speaker 02

  for my book on Disneyland, that I learned that, that C V Wood died that same year that I see this picture. And I, I mean, I committed it to a book. The guy in that photo, the Alfred Watkins photo in that book, it's got the white hair and the beard and everything. That's the man I saw at Disneyland, at least a doppelganger or a twin of him. And he said his name was Alfred. What's weird is I can't remember his voice because Alfred Watkins was British. This guy would have had a British accent, right? But I, I don't remember his voice. Very, one of the weirdest experiences of my life.

• 2:32:50Speaker 02

  And, um, you know, I wondered, and I go into it in the book. Okay. What would this have had to do with C V Wood in this carousel in Disneyland as a psychotronic device?

• 2:33:02Danny Jones?

  A psychotronic device?

• 2:33:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:33:05Danny Jones?

  And what was the end goal of this?

• 2:33:08Speaker 02

  The end goal, in my opinion, a lot of people come at me and say, oh, see, that proves that Walt Disney was evil and doing all. No, look, remember Disney fired this guy. It was C V Wood who designed it. And from what I've learned of C V Wood, there was no evil intent at all. It was truly to just, the guy was into psychic phenomena. He's like an early new age or whatever. It's like, hey, man, let's enhance the experience of this park. Let's see if we can enhance an experience of a place by actively using this Telluric energy. I really think it was a purely innocent thing. So that, yeah, that's, that's what I think the goal was.

• 2:33:50Speaker 02

  And then by 82, when they redesigned Fantasyland, they moved the carousel back, I think it was 30 feet. Was the, the measurement I did. And that would have removed the carousel off of the intersection and effectively disengaged.

• 2:34:06Danny Jones?

  Is it still there? Is the carousel still there?

• 2:34:07Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:34:08Danny Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 2:34:08Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:34:09Danny Jones?

  Find a photo of that carousel.

• 2:34:11Speaker 02

  The King Arthur Carousel.

• 2:34:13Danny Jones?

  What do you think the connection is between the 33rd Latitude and all this create like the JFK assassination, the Trinity test, Hiroshima, and then allegedly like Jerusalem? It passes right through Jerusalem?

• 2:34:27Speaker 02

  I, I, I think that, yeah, there it is.

• 2:34:30Danny Jones?

  Wow. The King Arthur Carousel.

• 2:34:33Speaker 02

  Spelled with the French double R.

• 2:34:37Danny Jones?

  Huh.

• 2:34:39Speaker 02

  Now technically it is not a carousel. It is a merry go round because it's all horses. And there used to be mixed colors of horses, but the white horse was so popular that Disneyland made them all white horses. I think that, that, that's one of the regions on the earth that there's just some natural energy phenomenon thing going on that people in the know tap into. And it enhances. You know, it's been written about the Trinity bomb test,

• 2:35:21Speaker 02

  the atomic bomb test, where there was this result that was more than the sum of its parts. There was some extra, and that's in that zone. You know, the people who perpetrated the JFK assassination. Have you read King Kill 33? It's an essay.

• 2:35:38Danny Jones?

  I haven't heard it, but I've, I've listened to people talk about it.

• 2:35:41Speaker 02

  Oh, wow. Oh, wow. Cause it involves the goddess Hecate, which shows up in all of my stuff, even when I don't expect her. There, there's something going on with the goddess Hecate and somebody's understanding of her or their application of things to do with, you know, the goddess Hecate, for whatever it means. But in King Kill 33, they, there's a connection there, plus other things with the JFK assassination, which shows that the perpetrators of it, somebody involved with the perpetrators of it, wanted to do it right there on that Telluric Current. That's why that the site was chosen.

• 2:36:25Speaker 02

  Cause think about it, they could have killed him anywhere, but they chose that site. I think it's just because somebody believed. Now, as Rick Spencer, I say in the First Empire of the Wheel book, you know, I say to the reader, you don't have to believe yourself that this stuff works. Keep in mind that what we're suggesting is the perpetrators believed in it. So I give people that distance. If you yourself don't want to believe that the Telluric Current somehow played into the JFK assassination or these other things. The point is that somebody believed it.

• 2:37:01Danny Jones?

  And do we, do we know for a fact that there's anybody connected to the JFK assassination that, that talked about this or believed in it?

• 2:37:10Speaker 02

  Not that I have found or heard. Um, no, uh, there is, it's through analysis. Yeah. Which is what the King Kill 33 essay. Shelby Downard and, and Michael Cole. I think Coleman or whatever. Yeah, it's definitely worth a read. It, uh, there are things that I've learned through exposure to the idea, you know, synchronicities and this weird phenomenon that whether what you're initially looking at is true or real, things emerge.

• 2:37:54Speaker 02

  It's, it's like pulling the threads lead you to a position where what you think you're going to may not be so, but something wanted you there.

• 2:38:09Speaker 02

  Something wanted you there so that it could, you could be exposed to something, or you could see something. And I know that sounds vague. When you start looking at synchronicities and then, have you heard of karmic frequency?

• 2:38:30Danny Jones?

  Probably not.

• 2:38:32Speaker 02

  An associate of mine, Seshari, another amazing author, he introduced me to karmic frequency. Here's an example, a simple example. We have karmic frequencies with people, you know. Mine with my dad, okay, has to do with the number nine, more specifically 27. Why is that? My dad was born in 1936, 36 is a multiple of nine. When he was 27 years old, another multiple of nine. In 1963, another multiple of nine, I was born. When I was 27, multiple of nine. In 1990, a multiple of nine, my son was born. Now, my son hasn't had any kids that we're aware of.

• 2:39:17Speaker 02

  You know, and he's already, he's gonna be 36 in December. So unless it jumps another nine. Now, he is living with a girlfriend that he's had for two years. But, and he could be 36 years old, you know, if, if they have a child, which just expands it another nine years. But that's, that's a karmic, that's an example of karmic frequency. Like I have with my dad, this weird thing where we both are born in a nine year. And at a nine age, we have a child, a son born in another nine year. That's, that's a real cheap example of a karmic frequency.

• 2:40:01Speaker 02

  But karmic frequencies could also be, you take a timeline and you see the symmetry of events. When you start looking at karmic frequencies, synchronicities multiply. Your, your experience with synchronicities multiply. You start seeing more of them. This is where it gets dangerous. It can, some people can go number 23 with, with, with this stuff by, they can't stop looking at these things. At some point, when, when I was investigating the Empire of the Wheel thing, that was my first deep experience with karmic frequency and synchronicity and strange things.

• 2:40:46Speaker 02

  And, you know, you, you, you start to be able to see, holy smokes, I didn't see that before. I didn't know that before. Now I recognize it, you know, what it is. And it can be, for some people, it can be overwhelming because they can't stop seeing the patterns. And, and that's what I think, when you are experiencing a lot of synchronicity, you're seeing thread, the threads of the very fabric of reality. And when you're looking at that closely, that's something that most humans don't encounter in their mundane, everyday lives, right? So it, you can't unsee it.

• 2:41:28Speaker 02

  And that can be hazardous for, for some folks who don't know when to step back.

• 2:41:34Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:41:35Speaker 02

  I had to step back.

• 2:41:35Danny Jones?

  That could drive you crazy.

• 2:41:36Speaker 02

  Yeah. From the Empire of the Wheel stuff, after the second book, I had to step back and work on something else that had emerged. But the weird thing that was happening with, with this, when I was pulling certain threads and all this was, I did the Latitude 33 book. And I was following up on the Tolar currents because the three that intersect continue to go out through Southern California. And a couple of them go out towards the east from LA into the inland empire, which, where I live. And I thought, okay, let me see if there's any reports of paranormal stuff, ghosts or whatever. So I'm looking up ghost stories in the particular part of

• 2:42:19Speaker 02

  town and I find one. And I go talk to the lady who posted it. And she goes, oh, you gotta go look it up. It's this lady that was found dead in a lake in 1915. Oh, okay. And she's haunting the mall there. Oh, okay. So ghost story, right? So I go to the special collections room and I start looking at the newspapers and I find six other deaths. The agent takes over and I'm going, wait a minute, there's my, and then that explodes into this Empire of the Wheel thing. It, it, and, and, you know, the murder of children and, and the spiritualists involved

• 2:43:01Speaker 02

  and this weird thing, that weird thing, darker, darker, darker. I'm followed from my home. I'm followed around. I'm being watched.

• 2:43:10Danny Jones?

  When you're, when you're working on this book.

• 2:43:12Speaker 02

  When I was, when I was investigating the Empire of the Wheel stuff, I had gone to the coroner's office and requested a record from 1915. Now, this was in 2009 or 10, 2009, I think it was. And I requested a record from 1915, almost 100 years before. And I go in and the lady says, okay, yeah, we'll have this for you. We'll call you when it's ready. Oh, okay. So the next day, I'm going out to run some errands and there's a guy parked in front of my house. Now, remember, I've spent much of my career being a surveillance expert, okay? I could follow my, anybody with my experience, I'm not special.

• 2:43:53Speaker 02

  I could follow my own mom around all day and she wouldn't know it was me, okay? I, it's just, you just learn how to do it. Surveillance is my thing. So I know it when I see it, okay? Cause I'm also trained and experienced in counter surveillance. Anyway, this guy was overt. I mean, he made the multiple turns with me. It was a message.

• 2:44:15Danny Jones?

  Yes, intimidation.

• 2:44:16Speaker 02

  Yeah. And so finally, he comes back. He ends up coming right back parking in front of my house and I confront him. I walk up to him. Gosh, can I help you? And he's on the phone. He's texting wildly to somebody and won't respond to me. And then he drives off.

• 2:44:34Danny Jones?

  Didn't even look at you.

• 2:44:35Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, no, he looked at me, but he was, you know, texting. So a couple of days later, I'm called, oh, Mr. Bosley, your record's ready. So I go back to the San Bernardino County coroner's office. Same woman who was all chatty and nice, like a mom. I go in, I say, yeah, I'm here to get my thing. And, and the receptionist says, yeah, okay, wait a second. She gets on there and she whispers. The same lady comes out who was so nice three days before and she's seething. She's looking at me with hatred in her eyes. She goes, Mr. Bosley, here's your. Thank you. I tried to make small talk and she wasn't, I asked her a question. She goes, no. I'm like, okay, I'm out of here. I'm thinking, what?

• 2:45:17Speaker 02

  What the heck? I'm getting information that's almost a century old. What's going on here? I think it was the following week or so after that. And a, a guy who had struck up a conversation with me, we'd become acquainted in a coffee shop, talking about Brown Mountain and the lights that go up and down and strange phenomena. He says, hey, I want to introduce you to a friend of mine. Lives up in the north end of town. That's where the old money is in San Bernardino. So one day I go, yeah, okay, I'll go with you. So I ride up there with him. This guy is a wandering bishop. Are you familiar with those? Episcopie Vaganti? Oh, David Ferry, for example, from the JFK milieu was a wandering bishop. Peter Lavenda writes about these wandering bishops.

• 2:46:00Speaker 02

  They're guys, a lot of guys who are wandering bishops are into like black magic or ritual magic and strange arcane things, okay? What, what a wandering bishop is, they're in, they're in a line of consecration, which the top of the line is a legitimate bishop recognized by Rome, okay? Only the people they're consecrating are not recognized by Rome. Once you're a bishop, you can do this. You can make anyone a bishop. I have that on personal authority from someone who is a bishop. He explained this to me. He says, Walter, it would take about five or six minutes.

• 2:46:41Speaker 02

  He goes, you could walk out of my house here and you, in the eyes of God and whatever, you are a bishop and the church can't do anything about it. But that's what these wandering bishops are. So this guy, I'm, I'm brought to his house. He's got the big cross, you know, that he's wearing, but, but he's wearing scrubs and sneakers. We go into his house and his living room is set up like he's holding court. And he and the guy who brought me there are having this conversation about this third party, about, oh yeah, he's been going around town, blah, blah, blah. And as I'm listening to this, they're describing things I've been doing while I've been researching and investigating this Empire of the Wheel mystery.

• 2:47:23Speaker 02

  So they're very, not very coyly, or coyly, however you want to put it, talking, they're letting me know that I'm being watched and followed. Cause they're saying, oh yeah, and he went over here. And I'm sitting here thinking.

• 2:47:35Danny Jones?

  Wittingly knowing, they're wittingly letting you know this?

• 2:47:37Speaker 02

  No, they're right in front of me saying this. And I'm sitting here thinking, guys, really? I'm sitting right here. But I went along, I played. And so then we went to lunch. And then after that, we're coming back to his neighborhood and the, the guy who's the bishop says to the guy who's the mutual acquaintance, he goes, hey, I want to go by, or the mutual acquaintance says to the bishop, oh, remember, I want to go by that house and check it out. Oh yeah, the bishop says. And they drive, make a couple of turns. And I recognize exactly where they're going. And I kid you not, they park right next door to the house of one of my sources for Empire of the Wheel that I had talked to a couple of weeks before.

• 2:48:19Speaker 02

  They park right there. And it's this real estate open house. And the bishop says, oh, I'm gonna sit here and make a phone call. You go in with him. So I go in and all he does is this cursory walk around the house and then he disappears. I'm walking around and I'm thinking.

• 2:48:40Speaker 02

  They're giving me a message. They're telling me they know who I'm talking to. Cause what are the odds that it would be right next door to one of the sources? That could give me family information dating back a century? In other words, information they wouldn't want me to have. So I finally walk out of the house, I'm walking through the house looking for the other guy. And when I, the guy's in there, kind of looking at me and say, "He's out in the car." "Okay, thank you." So he's out in the car and he and the bishop are going back and forth. And then I get in the car and, and it's like, "Well, I gotta go. I got something to do." And, and so then I ride back and I look this guy up immediately.

• 2:49:23Speaker 02

  And I find out that he's Episcopal Vigante. He's a wandering bishop. So that's kind of a red flag. And then I contact my mentor. Now, my mentor's the kind of guy that never had me shy away from dangerous situations. This is a guy that got me into my federal agentry and my spook work and stuff, okay? When I told him this, this was the only time he ever said, "Break off contact. These guys mean you harm." He basically told me they're, "They mean me harm." So I'm like, "Yes, sir. You know, you got that."

• 2:50:00Speaker 02

  And I, not always willing to just leave things alone. I ran into the guy at the coffee shop again, and I was told, you know, have nothing to do with him. Cause as I just said, but he kept asking me questions. So I wrote down Episcopal Vigante on a piece of paper. And I said, "Hey, tell me about that." And then I, sometime, and I walked off. Oh, he got livid. He got really angry at me. Cause he, he knew that, you know, that I had looked into this guy and found out.

• 2:50:40Speaker 02

  Now, this guy was also a, had, had an article written about him in the 60s or 70s. Living in a haunted house and he was-

• 2:50:49Danny Jones?

  Which guy?

• 2:50:49Speaker 02

  The, the bishop guy.

• 2:50:51Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:50:52Speaker 02

  He had been involved with paranormal investigation, that kind of thing. So he was one of these typical wandering bishop guys. But clearly, he let me know that people from his camp, for whatever reason, whoever he represented, was watching what I was doing, investigating a case that was almost 100 years old. Rick Spence and I, when we wrote the first book, we were and remain the only people in a century to have written about this publicly. This was swept under the rug.

• 2:51:22Danny Jones?

  Holy shit.

• 2:51:23Speaker 02

  These seven deaths in San Bernardino in 1915. This is some dark secret in San Bernardino history that the old families, somebody among the old families and old money, they don't want known. And what, where it really gets wild? Okay, how the airship mystery comes into it? I was telling you about this Frank Rosasco guy? Okay, where do you find out who I think the dead woman was? That was found floating in the lake in 1915? Subsequent research and continued investigation.

• 2:52:05Danny Jones?

  The woman they obviously didn't want you looking into?

• 2:52:07Speaker 02

  The, the woman, oh, when, when she was, we didn't talk about that. But you're familiar with the basics. When she was found floating in the lake on November 19th, 1915, okay? There, she, there was no purse, there was no identifying ID, nothing on her. The labels of her clothing were scratched out or torn out. Shoes, skirt, somebody had scratched out this stuff or removed the labels completely. Somebody didn't want her known. Or maybe she herself didn't want to be known. Okay? And there were elements in town, because it was World War I,

• 2:52:51Speaker 02

  that lead Rick and I to be convinced that there was some type of espionage activity involved with the railroad there. And sure enough, during this time, during this particular period of a year or two, there was a ship captured off the coast of San Diego that was smuggling German arms, German rifles and ammunition and such to India. Cause remember, World War I, Germany's at war with England. They want to keep England busy on two fronts. India was in its early days of fighting for independence. So there was this thing called the Hindu-German Alliance that was in California. Now, I come from a career of counterintelligence and stuff.

• 2:53:35Speaker 02

  And I had never heard of this until I'm investigating the Empire of the Wheel thing. It's something that's been forgotten in history. So there were agents from India and agents from Germany and agents from England all over California.

• 2:53:47Danny Jones?

  Whoa.

• 2:53:48Speaker 02

  And San Bernardino, I think it still is, but for like 100 years, was the main railroad hub in Southern California. What was discovered was, is that the Germans were bringing arms and munitions through the Gulf of Mexico into Texas, putting them on trains, transporting them across the Southwest, getting them to San Diego. And the only way you could do that via the Southwest was transit through San Bernardino. So there would have been German and Indian agents making sure those shipments were on their way to San Diego. And you would have had the British there keeping an eye on the German agents. So there's all this espionage going on. Then there's the description of the woman.

• 2:54:33Speaker 02

  When I decided to really dig in and maybe identify who she was, I looked at missing persons lists from the early, from 1900 up to that year. And I was surprised to find one name on there because I didn't realize she was considered a missing person, but there she was. And that is Etta Place, the legendary friend of Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. She virtually matches the description of the dead woman. When this woman had a very public funeral after being labeled a suicide, which in 1915, they did not do that. Give public funerals for, and no church would officiate.

• 2:55:16Speaker 02

  But the local Episcopal minister gave her a very public funeral. And then after that, he and his wife packed the stuff, their stuff up and left San Bernardino. I'm gonna tell you who he is in just a moment. But it indicates to me that he knew who the woman was. And to this funeral arrived this group of women from San Francisco to be her pallbearers. So these women in San Francisco took very personal interest in this unidentified dead woman, who a name was slapped onto her with this fake suicide note.

• 2:55:58Speaker 02

  But Rick and I and most people who read the stuff agree that that wasn't her real identity. But Etta Place was and is on a missing persons list. Harry Longabuagh, Sundance Kid, is documented as bringing her from South America to San Francisco in 1906. So her last known whereabouts was San Francisco. And you, you know, nine years later, you have this mysterious woman floating dead in a lake, poisoned and drowned. And you have these women from San Francisco come down.

• 2:56:39Speaker 02

  And it seems, it seems really thin until you start digging into the counterintelligence history and you start digging into the specific players. The Episcopal minister was a guy named Walter Franklin Prince, okay? Now, at the time, and still to this day, a lot of people in the US intelligence community go to the Episcopal church. There's a lot of Episcopalians in the US intelligence community, has been for over a century.

• 2:57:13Speaker 02

  With the Episcopalian Church, you have this group of secular nuns. Now, the woman that was found in the lake was found to be a thirty something year old virgin, okay? These secular nuns are nuns who are like civilians. They're not employed by the Episcopal Church, but they take the vows and live that way, and they help, they do what nuns do for churches, for the Episcopal Church. At the saloon where Etta, we're told Etta meets Butch and Sundance, okay, there was

• 2:57:52Speaker 02

  a local Order of Episcopal Nuns, okay, and they provided services to the brothels. I argue, and present the evidence, that Etta was an Episcopal nun. She was nobody's wife or girlfriend. And it gets even wilder, because I have found what I think is documented evidence that Harry Longabuagh, the Sundance Kid, was essentially an undercover government agent. When you read about the robberies and such, Harry Longabuagh, okay, who was, had the reputation of being a really good marksman, never shot anyone.

• 2:58:35Speaker 02

  You never, when you read about the robberies, other members of the gang shot posse members and law enforcement, but gee, the Sundance Kid, maybe he was like a stormtrooper in Star Wars, just couldn't hit anything, you know, but seriously, a guy who was a pistolier, known to be a good marksman, and he never shot, well, who is it that hangs with a group of criminals, you know?

• 2:58:59Danny Jones?

  That never commits a crime.

• 2:59:00Speaker 02

  That never commits the crime or never shoots the cops. Well, that's your undercover cop right there. And I had this suspicion from the first book, because when the woman's body was found, they, um, there were a lot of newspaper articles, they were trying to identify her, and they said, hey, this mysterious woman, blah, blah, blah. This man came to look at her, gave a name, he went to look at her, they said he got real quiet, and then he disappeared. And then they never found him again. I suspect, I'm not sure, I could be wrong about all of this, but I suspect that that might have been Harry Longabuagh.

• 2:59:39Speaker 02

  He had, for whatever reason, Etta, working for at the time, would have been the Secret Service. There's reasons for connecting that in the book. I think she came to San Bernardino, went to San Bernardino, um, because it had to do with the espionage activity going on. The Secret Service, this is before the FBI, the Secret Service was the FBI of the day. They handled all national security, counter espionage, counterintelligence things. I argue that she had been affiliated with the Secret Service through the Pinkertons, because remember, Alan Pinkerton, the guy who was Abraham Lincoln's security guy, he created

• 3:00:20Speaker 02

  the Secret Service. The Pinkerton family in the Secret Service were like this, so she, I think, got connected to the Secret Service via the Pinkertons, because she had, was probably working, you know, on behalf of the Pinkertons. I think that Harry Longabuagh was injected into the hole in the Waldo Gang as an undercover agent. They were partners. They weren't, they weren't lovers, they weren't spouses.

• 3:00:47Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:00:48Speaker 02

  They were, they were partners. And then since then, oh, boy, I can send it to you. I've got a ten-page document that shows all the documented, what I think is evidence, that, um, Harry Longabuagh was working for ONI during the South America years, and Butch was recruited into that.

• 3:01:10Danny Jones?

  Jesus.

• 3:01:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, that's, Jesus is right.

• 3:01:15Danny Jones?

  And they were that crazy about it, tracking you down and surveilling you in 2015?

• 3:01:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know, there's that, there's the airship guy, you know, the, the mysterious people from Sonora come and get Frank Rosasco, there's who I think was at a place. Oh, and my mentor was alive at that time, when I, when I had the, the, the moment in my research where I realized, oh, my God. And he had been, you know, he had, he, when he retired, he retired with forty-four years in the intel community. He was CIA. And his mentor, he didn't tell me, he talked about his mentor in, without identifying, for thirteen years. Finally, in ninety-nine, he told me who his mentor was, and it was Angleton, James Jesus Angleton. That's what I said. I go, are you kidding? And then he told me the whole story

• 3:02:03Speaker 02

  of how he met him. So, this was a guy that knew stuff, and I contacted him, and I said, "At a place has turned up, is central to my," and, you know, and he said, "You got it. You nailed it. It was her." And he wouldn't tell me anymore.

• 3:02:24Danny Jones?

  Oh, my.

• 3:02:26Speaker 02

  So this is one of the reasons why I'm very, that, and the physical description, and all the other circumstances, I'm pretty confident that At a Place lies buried in San Bernardino Mountain View Cemetery, under the name Cora Stanton.

• 3:02:40Danny Jones?

  Shh.

• 3:02:42Speaker 02

  I'm, I'm.

• 3:02:44Danny Jones?

  And who are the other six murders?

• 3:02:47Speaker 02

  What I think was going on, she got caught up, there were two things going on. There was, this is where I mentioned Walter Franklin Prince was the Episcopal minister. I think the reason he gave her a public funeral is because he was aware that she was an intel agent, and he knew she wasn't a suicide. So he showed her the respect by giving her the public thing. But, the other side of that coin with him is Walter Franklin Prince, when he left San Bernardino, he went to Boston to become the number two man at the American Psychological Research, uh, Association, which he, in the nineteen twenties, became the

• 3:03:28Speaker 02

  head of, the number one man. And he, more famously during the twenties, teamed up with Harry Houdini to investigate corrupt spiritualist mediums. Okay, and if you know your Harry Houdini history, um, the spiritualists murdered him. Are you familiar with Harry Houdini's death?

• 3:03:51Danny Jones?

  I've heard, we actually had somebody tell us about this on a podcast a couple of months ago, but I don't remember.

• 3:03:57Speaker 02

  Harry Houdini was murdered by corrupt spiritualist mediums. They basically told him.

• 3:04:02Danny Jones?

  Corrupt spiritualist mediums.

• 3:04:03Speaker 02

  Mediums, yeah. It was big money. They had, uh, people in DC, including the White House, that, that would consult them, and they threatened Houdini. Read a book titled, um, uh, I think it's The Secret Life of Houdini, but the authors are Kalush, K-A-L-U-S-H, and Sloman.

• 3:04:24Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 3:04:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, Kalush and Sloman. Harry Houdini, America's first superhero, or something like that. They, they go into the murder of Houdini, and then there's other, other sources. The first spiritualist temple ever established in the state of California was right there in San Bernardino. I argue that there was some shady stuff going on with the spiritualists in San Bernardino, and that was probably Prince's, Walter Franklin Prince's first bad taste of it. I think, I think he somehow, oh, by the way, Houdini, who was also working for the Secret

• 3:05:04Speaker 02

  Service at that time, yes, that's known history, that's well documented. He was performing in LA, he was in Southern California during all this mystery. So you got a guy who's a famous, you know, stage performer, but he's also, um, an asset of the Secret Service. Um, you've got him in Southern California, and you have this, this woman who I think was the Secret Service, a Secret Service agent at a place, and something, you know, I, I can't help but think there's some type of connection between Prince and Houdini back then, and they were aware of something going on with the spiritualists. So, to answer

• 3:05:49Speaker 02

  your question, I think some dark element of the spiritualist community in San Bernardino.

• 3:06:00Speaker 02

  Was conducting a very bad black magic ritual. With these seven deaths because each one where they died. It's mapped out in the book. Uh, occurred on a teller current. On, on the line or an intersection of to lurk. Somebody murdered all, made sure all these people died. Connected to that to lurk current system.

• 3:06:29Danny Jones?

  What the?

• 3:06:30Speaker 02

  Uh, the book also, oh yeah. Um, the Zodiac Killer did the same exact thing. With the seven classic, now remember he said there were 37 more that the police hadn't found, but of the seven classic attacks of which I think only one person survived. Um, they were all on teller currents. That's mapped in the book too. There's a map showing you that. Um, yeah, this is, this is. Beyond weird.

• 3:07:01Danny Jones?

  Um, there.

• 3:07:03Speaker 02

  Beyond. Uh, yeah, there was a predictive, I'll share the little predictive tidbit with you too. Take it or leave it for what it's worth. Okay. In the book, published in 2011, Rick and I say.

• 3:07:18Danny Jones?

  In this book?

• 3:07:18Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 3:07:19Danny Jones?

  Empire of the Hill.

• 3:07:20Speaker 02

  Empire of the Wheel.

• 3:07:21Danny Jones?

  Empire of the Wheel.

• 3:07:22Speaker 02

  Yeah. Rick and I say in 2011. That we fear that something's going to emerge in San Bernardino Valley. Um, in 2015. Because it'll be the 100th year anniversary. Of what happened in 1915.

• 3:07:43Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 3:07:44Speaker 02

  As I told you, the goddess Hecate turns up thematically throughout all of this. Her number is 100. The number 100, that's where we get.

• 3:07:53Danny Jones?

  Why is her number 100?

• 3:07:55Speaker 02

  It goes back to ancient times.

• 3:07:56Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 3:07:57Speaker 02

  And this is why, um, certain things that have to do with the number 100 have the H E C or, or whatever, because it's connected to Hecate. But often, um, it's in a set of two 50s. Now we talk about the Zodiac Killer in there because the Zodiac Killer essentially emerged. 50 years after what happened in San Bernardino. So we, we were concerned, we voiced a concern that, okay, 50 years after that, a hundred years after what happened in San Bernardino, some, uh, it, and we thought it would be a new serial killer. Unfortunately, you know, that would emerge in 2015.

• 3:08:38Speaker 02

  So on the 100th anniversary of victim number six. Orta Hedges. The second of December, 2015, I'm standing there having a cup of coffee in my kitchen and the news report comes on of the terrorist attack in San Bernardino. Now I've had a map since 2008 of all the telluric lines in San Bernardino. And when it said where this was going on. I, I knew it was a 100th anniversary of one of the victims. I'm like, oh my God. So I looked on the map and the building, sure enough, where there's ley lines. That's the first thing. Then as we learn.

• 3:09:23Speaker 02

  Um. The, uh, uh, the, the terrorists. Were associated and claimed a connection to ISIS.

• 3:09:33Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:09:34Speaker 02

  Okay. ISIS is an Egyptian name also of a goddess. That is connected to Hecate.

• 3:09:42Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:09:43Speaker 02

  So dedicated to ISIS, one could say dedicated to Hecate. There were 14 victims. Orta Hedges, who was killed on the second of December, 1915, was 14 years old. So there's some synchronicities for you.

• 3:09:58Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 3:09:58Speaker 02

  ISIS Hecate, 14, San Bernardino.

• 3:10:01Danny Jones?

  You're seeing fractals, Walter.

• 3:10:03Speaker 02

  Uh, it's, I told you, it's like, where's the thing with the red lines? Give me the cigarette like that. But, but I mean, we say four years before that, eh, we think something bad's gonna happen in 2015 in San Bernardino and I mean, what are the odds on the 100th anniversary?

• 3:10:19Danny Jones?

  Pretty fucking crazy, man.

• 3:10:20Speaker 02

  You know, unless the sick bastards read the book.

• 3:10:22Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:10:23Speaker 02

  Which really pisses me off if that's the case.

• 3:10:25Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:10:26Speaker 02

  But they were, they were properly taken care of. Um, so. You know. Weirdness.

• 3:10:35Danny Jones?

  Lots of weirdness, man. Jesus Christ, you blew my mind. I got lots of reading to do. Well, dude, we just did three hours.

• 3:10:43Speaker 02

  Holy smoke.

• 3:10:44Danny Jones?

  Thank you so much. This has been fascinating.

• 3:10:46Speaker 02

  Oh, great.

• 3:10:47Danny Jones?

  Well, we're gonna have to do part two down the road.

• 3:10:49Speaker 02

  I think so.

• 3:10:50Danny Jones?

  If you're up for it.

• 3:10:51Speaker 02

  I think so.

• 3:10:51Danny Jones?

  Think there's a lot more that we can cover.

• 3:10:52Speaker 02

  Oh God, yeah, just for me to explain the stuff I threw at you today.

• 3:10:56Danny Jones?

  Right. A hundred percent, man.

• 3:10:57Speaker 02

  So.

• 3:10:58Danny Jones?

  Um, so this, I'm sure this book is available everywhere books are sold.

• 3:11:01Speaker 02

  Uh, no, actually.

• 3:11:03Danny Jones?

  Empire of the Wheel.

• 3:11:03Speaker 02

  My books are available in one place and that's Lulu.com. L U L U dot com.

• 3:11:08Danny Jones?

  Lulu.com. Yeah, okay. Perfect. We'll make sure we link that below for folks. Uh, other, is there any other, uh, anything else we should tell people about like where to find your work or?

• 3:11:16Speaker 02

  Well, they can, if they meander over to the Walter Bosley channel at YouTube, they can.

• 3:11:20Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 3:11:21Speaker 02

  See me yapping about stuff there and, um, you know, that's, I think. That, that, that'll probably be enough for them.

• 3:11:29Danny Jones?

  All right. Well, I'll make sure we link that below as well, as well as Lulu.com for folks to find out. And, uh, thanks again, bro.

• 3:11:34Speaker 02

  Hey, thank you. I really appreciate this.

• 3:11:37Danny Jones?

  My pleasure.

• 3:11:37Speaker 02

  Good time.

• 3:11:37Danny Jones?

  All right. Good night, everybody.

• 3:11:40Speaker 00

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