Tim Robbins

Tim Robbins joins the podcast! Tim and Josh have a career-spanning conversation about THE SHAWSHANK REDEMPTION, his experience on HOWARD THE DUCK, why we didn’t see him in TOP GUN: MAVERICK, working with Clint Eastwood on MYSTIC RIVER, Tim’s new website that will be sharing never-before-seen footage from Tim’s career, and more! SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! Rula -- Rula patients typically pay $15 per session when using insurance. Connect with quality therapists and mental health experts who specialize in you at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.rula.com/happy⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ #rulapod Quince -- Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Quince.com/HAPPYSAD ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠for free shipping and 365-day returns. Limited Time Offer–Get Huel today with my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code happy15 at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://huel.com/happy15.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! UPCOMING EVENT! 10/13 -- Joe Manganiello in NY -- Tickets here: https://www.92ny.org/event/joe-manganiello-with-josh-horowitz-bloodlines Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  I knew the first day that the duck was miscast.

• 0:07Speaker 00

  In the comic book, he's a rough,

• 0:12Speaker 00

  crunched up.

• 0:13Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 0:14Speaker 00

  Guy guy.

• 0:16Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 0:16Speaker 00

  Was smoking a cigar and trying to get chicks.

• 0:21Speaker 00

  And what I saw on set that day was a cute ass puppet.

• 0:25Josh Horowitz?

  Too cute, too cute.

• 0:27Speaker 00

  Too cute, not dirty enough.

• 0:30Speaker 02

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins.

• 0:38Josh Horowitz?

  Hey guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Today on the show, we have Tim Robbins in the house. Of course, an Academy Award winner for Mystic River, a great filmmaker. He directed Bob Roberts, Dead Man Walking, Cradle of War Rock. He's starring in Silo right now. And yes, we go all the way back. Top Gun days, Howard the Duck, Hudson's proxy, Shawshank Redemption, and more. Thanks, guys, as always, for checking out the podcast. This is a fun one. If you've lived through these decades of great films since the 90s and even the 80s, then you know and love Tim Robbins' work like I do. And it was a real treat to have him on. He's always been outspoken in the best possible way. He's honest, he's unfiltered, and he's got the stories. So I think this is going to be a conversation you guys are going to enjoy as much as I did.

• 1:20Josh Horowitz?

  Quick reminder before we get into my conversation with Tim, as always, check out our Patreon. If you like what I do, support us over there, patreon.com/happy, sad, confused. Early access to all our episodes, bonus content, you can ask a question to our guests, and more. We also have a live event coming up, I should say, October 13th. Joe Manganiello, one of our favorites on Happy Sad Confused, we're talking about his entire career and his new memoir. That's going to be at the 92nd Street Y in New York City. The link to tickets is in the show notes. Check it out. October 13th, New York City, me and Joe. Okay, no real further ado. You know Tim Robbins' work. I don't need to list off the credits, but this is a great conversation. We plug Silo, but we also talk about, I'm very excited about this.

• 2:03Josh Horowitz?

  He's got his own website, timrobbins.com, has just launched by the time you're watching or listening to this, and it's got tons of archival materials from his career as an actor, a director, a playwright, a director in the theater, all the stuff he's done, a musician. He's done a lot, and we cover a lot in this hour. I think you guys are going to dig this. Here's me and Mr. Tim Robbins. Enjoy. Tim Robbins, you're on the podcast. Thank you for doing this, man. I appreciate you.

• 2:28Speaker 00

  My pleasure.

• 2:29Josh Horowitz?

  I feel like I've trapped you because whether you know it or not, I'm going to be talking about some of my, my favorites today.

• 2:36Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 2:36Josh Horowitz?

  We're going to, can you guess like what, what the films that I'm going to, peg me, like, take, look, take me.

• 2:40Speaker 00

  You want me to, you want me to do your job too? Tell me about Shawshank.

• 2:44Josh Horowitz?

  No, no, it's not going to be, I mean, I do want to know about Shawshank. No, but go, go, go a different route. I'm not that simple. I'm not that basic.

• 2:50Speaker 00

  All right, good. Let's get deep.

• 2:53Josh Horowitz?

  I'm Howard the Duck, I'm Hudson's proxy, all the way. I'm that guy.

• 2:56Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 2:58Josh Horowitz?

  Um, I did see you recently for a nanosecond at Comic Con.

• 3:02Speaker 00

  A nanosecond?

• 3:03Josh Horowitz?

  I was. You were the surprise guest on our panel for Silo.

• 3:06Speaker 00

  I remember.

• 3:08Josh Horowitz?

  How are you with that kind of, I mean, you've had every kind of experience. You've been on the Oscar stage, you've been on the Comic Con stage. Where does like a Comic Con experience sit with you?

• 3:15Speaker 00

  First time I'd been on Comic Con.

• 3:16Josh Horowitz?

  Is that right?

• 3:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, I had done an appearance in New York Comic Con, but never the big, big one in San Diego. That was pretty, pretty cool.

• 3:25Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Were you a genre kid? Like, did you grow up with like that stuff? Like, it was a different time, obviously. It wasn't celebrated in the same way, but.

• 3:33Speaker 00

  There wasn't much of that happening. The genre at my time was like paranoid thrillers.

• 3:38Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 3:40Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 3:42Speaker 00

  But around my first year of college was Star Wars came out, and that was a huge deal for us.

• 3:50Josh Horowitz?

  Do you remember that as like a defining moment, like?

• 3:52Speaker 00

  Loved it. Yeah, yeah.

• 3:54Josh Horowitz?

  Went to the theater a few times.

• 3:56Speaker 00

  Uh huh.

• 3:56Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 3:57Speaker 00

  Uh huh. And, uh, you know, that was also, I think, maybe the same year or the year before was Saturday Night Fever. That was a big film.

• 4:04Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 4:04Speaker 00

  A big cultural moment. I love how these cultural moments have changed.

• 4:09Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, not for the better necessarily.

• 4:11Speaker 00

  It used to be organic.

• 4:14Josh Horowitz?

  Now they force them down your throat. This is going to be a cultural moment, whether you like it or not.

• 4:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're gonna, we're gonna force you to go see this crap movie.

• 4:24Josh Horowitz?

  Don't get me started. As someone that's covered movies for 20 years, I mean, on the different side of it, we can both tell some war stories about how things have changed.

• 4:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, well, there's a lot of things that have changed. There are some things that have changed for the better.

• 4:37Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 4:39Speaker 00

  You can tell long form stories now, 10 hour stories.

• 4:42Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 4:43Speaker 00

  That's cool.

• 4:44Josh Horowitz?

  The democratization. I mean, you can, with less, make more. Whether it's going to be seen by folks, that's a whole nother matter, perhaps.

• 4:51Speaker 00

  Well, this is why I'm doing my website.

• 4:52Josh Horowitz?

  There it is. Let's get this, let's get into it.

• 4:55Speaker 00

  Okay, so I have a ton of stuff.

• 4:58Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 4:59Speaker 00

  I, I did three movies in the 90s. Bob Roberts, Dead Man Walking, and Cradle of War Rock.

• 5:06Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 5:07Speaker 00

  And I'm proud of all three of those movies. And then I took some time off because I had, you know, kids and I wanted to be around more. And when I direct, I kind of check out.

• 5:19Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 5:20Speaker 00

  And so I stopped directing for a while, and then when I started wanting to direct again about seven or eight years after that, the landscape had changed a bit.

• 5:30Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 5:30Speaker 00

  And the kinds of movies that I wanted to do were not, you know, people weren't lining up to give me money to do them. So I started just doing things on my own.

• 5:44Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 5:45Speaker 00

  And so I've got quite a few projects that I've put on the shelf or in cardboard boxes. And about a couple of years ago, I just started getting everything out. I hired some people to help me do an archive. And I realized that I've got a lot of, a lot of things, a lot of

• 6:05Speaker 00

  movies and short movies and interviews and documentaries that I have, and I'm working on doing final edits on all of them right now. So over the course of the next year, I'm going to be releasing my own material.

• 6:21Josh Horowitz?

  Because, I mean, like, to know a little bit about you, and I know, I think, more than a little, like, you are not the kind of person that kind of like waited for the job and then like went on to the next job. It seems like you were always creating, whether it was your own theater company, whether it was directing your own material, writing. So

• 6:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 6:36Josh Horowitz?

  These were the side pursuits that just kind of kept you alive, kept you engaged with the world?

• 6:41Speaker 00

  It kept me in a, it kept me engaged completely. I would go from project to project to project. So if I was acting in a movie, probably at the end of that movie, I was headed off to direct something that I'd written at the Actors Gang. So there's also those plays that I did over that course of time that I filmed them all. You know, filmed live performances.

• 7:07Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 7:07Speaker 00

  They're not films, but they are documents of what I was doing creatively.

• 7:13Josh Horowitz?

  Is it, must be very surreal for you. I'm sure some of these things, like, you don't even real, remember actually. I mean, you remember making them in some capacity, but they must ignite a lot of memories of like where you were at the time.

• 7:23Speaker 00

  What happens is you go from project to project and you, you leave it behind because you're working in a new

• 7:30Speaker 00

  genre or a new milieu and, and you go full on into that. So in leaving it behind, it's, it's, you forget its vitality.

• 7:42Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 7:42Speaker 00

  And so this has been a great couple of years going through my, my files because it's reminded me of some of the things that I did, and they're quite good, I think. And, you know, until, until people tell me they, it sucks, I'm going to say they're pretty good.

• 8:02Josh Horowitz?

  I am going to go with pretty good. But also, it's a snapshot in time of where you were at, where the world was at. And it's a marker. It's like you're a different person, you're a different version of the same person, but like.

• 8:12Speaker 00

  I never stopped doing the material that I wanted to do.

• 8:15Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 8:16Speaker 00

  And the rare thing about my films in the 90s was they were all autonomous.

• 8:21Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 8:21Speaker 00

  I had final cut on all three of those films. And so everything you see in Incredible Rock and Dead Man Walking and Bob Roberts.

• 8:30Josh Horowitz?

  Good or bad, that's me.

• 8:31Speaker 00

  It's me.

• 8:32Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 8:32Speaker 00

  And that was the inhospitable environment I came back to after taking seven or eight years off.

• 8:40Josh Horowitz?

  A rude awakening, a little bit.

• 8:41Speaker 00

  There was no more.

• 8:43Josh Horowitz?

  Wait, guys, wait.

• 8:43Speaker 00

  No more artistic autonomy.

• 8:46Josh Horowitz?

  Wait, you love Bob Roberts. You, you love Dead Man Walking, Oscars, what happened?

• 8:50Speaker 00

  I didn't get that way. I, I just, you just react to the cultural landscape and you move on and, and you do what you want to do.

• 8:57Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 8:57Speaker 00

  And if that means your audience is going to be tens of thousands instead of millions, that's okay. Cause you're, it's, it's all about genuine creative freedom.

• 9:11Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 9:11Speaker 00

  And if you have that, then it's, people can catch up.

• 9:16Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 9:16Speaker 00

  It's okay. I, I, I'm not, I'm not impatient. I have, I know that from personal experience, I know that movies can come out and not do well and then be considered by everyone to be their favorite movie.

• 9:31Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 9:32Speaker 00

  Which is Shawshank.

• 9:32Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 9:33Speaker 00

  I know that Bob Roberts, when it came out, didn't do a lot of business.

• 9:38Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 9:39Speaker 00

  But it became a cultural landmark. So I have faith that time is my best friend.

• 9:50Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, so to go all the way back, when you came in here, I said immediately, like, one thing that I do feel connected with you on, and I always feel connected when there's another person that was raised in New York City, because some people always look at us like, really? Like, how did you, like, you were raised by wolves? Like, how did you actually come out semi-well adjusted?

• 10:08Speaker 00

  If you survive, you come out semi-well adjusted.

• 10:10Josh Horowitz?

  It makes us stronger, right?

• 10:12Speaker 00

  Some don't survive.

• 10:13Josh Horowitz?

  We survived. And you're still a New Yorker to a degree. I spent a lot of time here, right?

• 10:18Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 10:18Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, do you feel like, you know, in what ways did the city shape you as a artist, as a human?

• 10:26Speaker 00

  Well, let me start with the negative.

• 10:30Josh Horowitz?

  I was mugged on 14th Street now.

• 10:32Speaker 00

  I wish, I wish, I was, but, yes.

• 10:37Speaker 00

  But I was also, one of the negative things about New York City, and I'm not sure if this is true of all cities, but it could be.

• 10:45Speaker 00

  Um, there's an awful lot of the voice that says, yeah, but.

• 10:53Josh Horowitz?

  Hmm.

• 10:54Speaker 00

  Um, I've got a great idea. Yeah, but so and so did this and so and so did this. And there's a, there's a kind of an energy that will try to get you to not feel as excited about your idea as you had when you had it. And what I found when I moved out to the West Coast and went to UCLA was that people were responding to my ideas with, yeah, let's do it.

• 11:24Josh Horowitz?

  Let's just go for it. Let's try it.

• 11:25Speaker 00

  And that is the difference between a, uh, kind of ensconced elite.

• 11:35Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 11:35Speaker 00

  And the spirit of the people that crossed over those mountains and created a new society. Now, there's negatives on both of those two, of course, uh, but there's, but the, the spirit of invention, the spirit of trying something new, I felt was more, uh, welcome on the West Coast.

• 11:57Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 11:57Speaker 00

  And I think that's how Silicon Valley happened. I think that's why Hollywood is for, did have for many years, uh, a, something to say culturally and.

• 12:07Josh Horowitz?

  R I P. We were so close.

• 12:09Speaker 00

  Because there were inventors and gamblers and rogues that went out there to make art in a different way.

• 12:17Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 12:17Speaker 00

  And so, um, that's something I had to overcome leaving New York. However, New York left me also with a tenacity of, uh, purpose. Um, nothing's gonna stop me.

• 12:33Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 12:33Speaker 00

  Uh, I am, uh, you can say no to me a million times and I don't hear that word.

• 12:38Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 12:39Speaker 00

  I'm, I'm gonna keep going. And I think that's a combination of growing up in New York and having parents that were from the West.

• 12:47Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 12:48Speaker 00

  That idea, both my parents, uh, my mom and my dad met in Los Angeles at UCLA at the, in the marching band. My dad's family was pioneers that, that settled in Washington State, in Eastern Washington State. So the idea that, uh, no is not a word, uh, that I register, um, in pursuits of creative endeavors.

• 13:16Josh Horowitz?

  So.

• 13:17Speaker 00

  I, I registered in appropriate social situations.

• 13:23Josh Horowitz?

  Because you're toggling on and off. So you, you, you allude to this, like, so you come out of UCLA and it seems like, you know, you were energized, you're excited by the world. This is where the Actors Gang comes out of those years, right?

• 13:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:35Josh Horowitz?

  What are the, like, the, was there a founding principle by which you and your collaborators created the Actors Gang that has held true, that has stayed true all these years?

• 13:45Speaker 00

  Yeah. Uh, it's, it was based at the time in the spirit of punk rock. Uh, the idea that there's a new way of speaking. There's a new way of reaching audiences. There's, uh, don't get up on stage unless you have a lot of energy. Don't, don't, uh, try to tell a story on stage unless it's something important enough to talk about. Um, that is still with us at, at the Actors Gang. Over the years, we've gotten, um, much more disciplined, uh, much more of a, um, uh, a way of, uh, collective way of working, uh, that, um, has evolved over the years and gotten better and better, in my opinion.

• 14:28Speaker 00

  But the original impetus was to tell stories no one else was telling.

• 14:33Josh Horowitz?

  Hmm.

• 14:33Speaker 00

  And to do so in a way that's theatrical and entertaining and that the way to talk about our culture and our world is not through lecturing or intellectual pursuits, but through vaudeville and, um, popular culture and cartoons and, uh, the idea that, uh, as long as the behavior is truthful, it can be extreme.

• 14:59Josh Horowitz?

  How did those sensibilities jive with like the Hollywood world that you found yourself in, in like, so you do, start to do some television, you do St. Elsewhere, you do Love Boat, Rite of Passage, you do all that, the TV, and then you start to do film and we're 40 years after 86, which is a big year for you. You've got Top Gun that year. You've got the aforementioned Howard the Duck, which I will have 12 questions about. But like, did you find like, I don't know, the Top Guns of the world, the Bruckheimers of the world was fitting your sensibilities as a, a young artist?

• 15:34Speaker 00

  No, but they were paying really well and it's allowed me, it allowed me to produce theater.

• 15:40Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 15:40Speaker 00

  Um, it was, it was a lot easier and more fun to do and more creative to do than delivering pizzas.

• 15:49Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 15:50Speaker 00

  And so I, I, when I understood that, I started to appreciate it more.

• 15:56Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 15:57Speaker 00

  Um, I didn't get a job for quite a while, uh, uh, auditioning for about a, uh, I don't know, six, seven months I have auditions. I didn't get anything because I probably had a bit of a chip on my shoulder. I was an East Coast theater guy and I was, you know, what is this I'm reading for kind of thing?

• 16:15Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 16:16Speaker 00

  And then somehow that attitude meshed with, uh, playing, uh, an awful, uh, terrorist bomber on St. Elsewhere and so.

• 16:25Josh Horowitz?

  Served you well.

• 16:26Speaker 00

  Yeah. So I got that part and then I understood, oh my good, goodness, that was actually real high quality writing.

• 16:33Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 16:34Speaker 00

  Directing and really good actors in that. And, and is that, if that's possible, that's a cool thing. And so I, then I started appreciating it a lot more and respecting it a lot more and respecting, most importantly, the, the creative, the crews, the, the, the people that, if a film crew can do anything, you know, the, the collective work ethic of a film crew is like nothing you've seen.

• 17:00Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 17:00Speaker 00

  Construction is, is similar, but, uh, the magic that, uh, a film crew can pull off in a limited amount of time.

• 17:09Josh Horowitz?

  This wasn't here yesterday and it's not gonna be here tomorrow.

• 17:12Speaker 00

  Insane. And once you understand that, you have deep respect for these people.

• 17:16Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 17:16Speaker 00

  And, you know, I showed up late once in my early career and I was like, no, never again. These people are.

• 17:22Josh Horowitz?

  Too many talented artists that are.

• 17:24Speaker 00

  They show up on time.

• 17:25Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 17:26Speaker 00

  And they work really hard and they deserve respect. And, you know, so I, I got my act together.

• 17:32Josh Horowitz?

  More Happy Say Confused coming up.

• 17:38Speaker 03

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• 19:25Josh Horowitz?

  What are your memories of Top Gun? Like, were you going up for that specific role? Or was it like, I mean, there's so many great young actors in that film. Was it kind of like mix and match? Who's right for what role?

• 19:36Speaker 00

  Honestly, I don't remember. I just remember auditioning and getting the part. I don't remember reading even the script.

• 19:45Speaker 00

  So I wasn't like, they said Merlin. I was like, fine, that's

• 19:49Josh Horowitz?

  Cool name?

• 19:50Speaker 00

  Yeah. And by the way, a great job because I did the first part of shooting. Went down to San Diego and did some training and some flight simulations. And I did that, I think in June. And then I did one day of shooting where we're on the aircraft carrier and we land. Right?

• 20:15Speaker 00

  That one day, and then I go back to LA and I had eight weeks off or nine weeks off, 10 weeks off on full pay. And I had to shoot again in September on a gimbal in Los Angeles. So in the interim, I wrote, produced, directed a play called Slicks Like Griffgraph with the Actors Gang.

• 20:40Josh Horowitz?

  Perfect.

• 20:41Speaker 00

  On full salary from Paramount, which was fantastic. And was able, and by the way, it was an anti-war play.

• 20:51Josh Horowitz?

  Simpson Bruckheimer did not know what they were funding.

• 20:56Speaker 00

  So

• 20:57Josh Horowitz?

  That's amazing.

• 20:58Speaker 00

  It's a little ironic, but yeah. And, you know, it was, it was great because I met some really cool people that became friends. You know, Val and Tom and Meg Ryan and, you know, a few others that, you know, it was Anthony Edwards, good, good people.

• 21:20Speaker 00

  It was young Hollywood, you know, it was, you know, they, we were all young bucks and

• 21:25Josh Horowitz?

  No, again, it's a snapshot of that era of that gang. Yeah. Was there ever, did you ever get a call from Bruckheimer when they did Maverick? Was there a talk of you potentially popping in there?

• 21:34Speaker 00

  So I've known Jerry for years. I play, I have played occasionally in his hockey game out in LA.

• 21:42Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 21:44Speaker 00

  I like him. I like him. He's a great guy. I did not receive a call. However, I heard an interview where he said he did call and then I turned it down. But I, that could have been just projection.

• 22:02Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 22:03Speaker 00

  It could have been my agent saying, there's no way he's gonna do this. Or it could have been just them knowing I wouldn't have done it. Yeah.

• 22:12Josh Horowitz?

  Is that accurate? You wouldn't have done it?

• 22:13Speaker 00

  I don't think so. I did like the movie. I thought it was good.

• 22:16Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 22:17Speaker 00

  And I love Tom, so, you know, I might've done it. Who knows?

• 22:21Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, I'm gonna try to control myself on the Howard the Duck moment.

• 22:24Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 22:24Josh Horowitz?

  But I was 10 years old when I saw Howard the Duck.

• 22:26Speaker 00

  Okay, did it traumatize you?

• 22:28Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, in the best possible way.

• 22:29Speaker 00

  Okay, good.

• 22:29Josh Horowitz?

  It's a very strange movie.

• 22:30Speaker 00

  I'm not paying for any therapy.

• 22:32Josh Horowitz?

  That's why you're here. The doors are locked. We're gonna work this out.

• 22:35Speaker 00

  Okay, all right.

• 22:37Josh Horowitz?

  For context, though, people might, might, might not know, this, at the time, while a crazy idea, did feel like an exciting moment.

• 22:44Speaker 00

  Oh, of course.

• 22:45Josh Horowitz?

  This is George Lucas. This is his collaborators.

• 22:47Speaker 00

  First project after his Star Wars trilogy.

• 22:50Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 22:51Speaker 00

  So it was a no-brainer. Of course, I was gonna say yes.

• 22:54Josh Horowitz?

  Do you remember a tipping point on set?

• 22:56Speaker 00

  I remember the first day.

• 22:59Speaker 00

  The tipping point was seeing that puppet.

• 23:02Josh Horowitz?

  Wasn't there a guy in that?

• 23:04Speaker 00

  There was a guy in it for some scenes, and then there was a puppet.

• 23:07Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 23:07Speaker 00

  That was, you know, had a whole bunch of mechanisms.

• 23:10Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 23:12Speaker 00

  So I knew the first day that the, that the duck was miscast.

• 23:23Speaker 00

  In the comic book, he's a rough, crunched up

• 23:29Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 23:30Speaker 00

  Guy guy.

• 23:31Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 23:32Speaker 00

  Was smoking a cigar and trying to get chicks.

• 23:37Speaker 00

  And what I saw on set that day was a cute ass puppet.

• 23:41Josh Horowitz?

  Too cute, too cute.

• 23:42Speaker 00

  Too cute, not dirty enough.

• 23:46Speaker 00

  I mean, just not even dirty, dirty, dirty.

• 23:49Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, it was too, it was white, like beautiful, pristine white.

• 23:51Speaker 00

  Beautiful white. And it just didn't, and I, you know, God bless them all. They all tried so hard. The puppeteers, Willard Hyke.

• 24:01Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 24:01Speaker 00

  They, there was, they, they were trying so hard to make it work. And I thought, you know, and it wasn't for me to say anything at the time, but I thought it's, it's the duck. It's, you know, and the guys in the duck costume were great. You know, Ed Gale's a, you know, brilliant guy and still is. And, and that, you know, his tenacity to be in that costume.

• 24:29Josh Horowitz?

  Kind of nice.

• 24:30Speaker 00

  And to have, his physicality was right for it, but still the face.

• 24:34Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 24:35Speaker 00

  And so

• 24:36Josh Horowitz?

  There is the bestiality of it all.

• 24:38Speaker 00

  There's that, there's the condom.

• 24:42Josh Horowitz?

  Let's be real, no matter how dirty that duck is, we still got that issue.

• 24:45Speaker 00

  Yeah. So, and then it's just so confusing. And that, and that, I, I had never been on a film that would, I would wait on a set for a whole day before I'd shoot one line.

• 25:02Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 25:02Speaker 00

  That, and that, for me, was challenging because it was away from home. I was up in San Francisco. I had a nice place in Sausalito that overlooked the bay. And I, I had good friends on the set. I made some friends for life on that set.

• 25:20Speaker 00

  And I very much loved working with Leah Thompson. And, but it was, it was rough. And so what I did was I, I had a video camera with me.

• 25:37Josh Horowitz?

  Right, this is what I've heard. This is gonna be on the website. I am so their first date.

• 25:41Speaker 00

  And so in order to amuse myself, I started making short films. And so one of them is one of the things I unearthed when I was going through my archive. And I found this videotape and I hired an editor and I said, let's make something out of this. And so it's a combination of 1985 video with 2026 digital technology.

• 26:10Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, my God, Tim.

• 26:11Speaker 00

  So

• 26:13Josh Horowitz?

  You're speaking my language.

• 26:17Speaker 00

  And I, I, I hope that people like it. I hope that people that are in the crew that are in it, see it and like it. And, you know, there's a shot of Willard in that where he's looking at the puppet and it's not performing and his face says it all. And I love him to death. And it's, it's, what, the film is not about Howard the Duck.

• 26:43Josh Horowitz?

  Sure, sure.

• 26:43Speaker 00

  It's about, it's, it's about a rough, it's called Rough Day in Duck, Rough, Rough Day in Duckland.

• 26:53Josh Horowitz?

  I will give you props. The Last Thing on Howard is, as silly as the movie is, and yes, as maybe you'll conceive, there were some issues. You're, you are so committed. You are all in. You're, you're, you're like, you have to be in something like that.

• 27:04Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 27:05Josh Horowitz?

  You do the duck voice. You're doing big speeches. You, your energy is at high levels. So I've always appreciated doing that.

• 27:11Speaker 00

  Thank you. I appreciate you saying that. It was a high-risk, high-wire.

• 27:17Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 27:18Speaker 00

  But, and luckily I had filmed already a film called Five Corners.

• 27:24Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 27:25Speaker 00

  That was coming out, came out, I think, before it. So, or maybe after, I'm not sure. But it was a really good movie with John Turturro and Jodie Foster. So I had a failsafe. I had something that was like, okay, I'm also this, you know? And that led to a lot of nice things for me.

• 27:44Josh Horowitz?

  There's probably not much new we can unearth about Bull Durham at this point, but we should give some props to it because it's such an important moment in your career. And I know a film that you still hold in high esteem, as you should, for a thousand reasons. I mean, it's, you know, on a personal level, on a professional level, that's a huge, meaningful moment for you. Was that, as you recall, like, it's Ron Shelton, it's, of course, Susan Sarandon, it's the great Kevin Costner. Are they all, were they all on board? Like, were you like the last one cast? Did you have to fight for that one? What are your recollections of getting?

• 28:12Speaker 00

  I think I might've been the last of the three cast. Cause I had to go play catch with Kevin Costner out in Burbank.

• 28:20Josh Horowitz?

  That was the test? The final test?

• 28:21Speaker 00

  That was my final audition.

• 28:23Josh Horowitz?

  Really?

• 28:23Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, for sure. Ron didn't want to cast someone that hadn't played baseball.

• 28:28Josh Horowitz?

  Got it.

• 28:29Speaker 00

  And I had played a lot of baseball. I played mostly softball growing up in Manhattan. As you know, there's not a lot of grass fields in Manhattan and not a lot of Little League as we, as America knows it. But I, I, I could throw and I played, I used to play third base, so I had a pretty good arm. I just had to learn the mechanics of pitching. And I had a great time on that. I had a couple of friends with me there.

• 28:56Speaker 00

  It was, it was, it was a lovely memory and it changed my life.

• 29:01Josh Horowitz?

  The, not so long after, you're in a film that has a long, you know, like, I think there's a reverberating effect to a film like Jacob's Ladder. That, that's a movie that, again, you see at a certain point in your life, that breaks your brain open. That's like a haunting, haunting film.

• 29:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, it is.

• 29:17Josh Horowitz?

  Does that come up somewhat often still?

• 29:19Speaker 00

  A lot, yeah. People loved that film. That's, that's one that's lasted and another one that didn't do business.

• 29:25Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, didn't do well at the time?

• 29:26Speaker 00

  Not at all. It was the, if there's a, what's the opposite of zeitgeist?

• 29:32Speaker 00

  That's what it was.

• 29:33Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 29:34Speaker 00

  Because it was coming, it was a movie about a veteran.

• 29:39Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 29:39Speaker 00

  That was tortured by memories. And it was coming out three weeks before we were to invade Iraq the first time. And it was not on the cultural shortlist, shall we say.

• 29:55Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 29:55Speaker 00

  And it was, it couldn't have succeeded considering that. And so, again, time is my best friend.

• 30:05Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 30:05Speaker 00

  And if you do something that's good, people will find it eventually. There's three movies I love that very few people saw. And they're the three movies I chose to do after I won my Oscar. And they are Catch a Fire with Philip Noyce, Secret Life of Words with, directed by Isabel Cosette.

• 30:32Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 30:33Speaker 00

  And with Sarah Polley.

• 30:34Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 30:34Speaker 00

  And Julie Christie. And the third one is Code 46, directed by Michael Winterbottom.

• 30:41Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 30:41Speaker 00

  With Samantha Morton.

• 30:44Josh Horowitz?

  And she was just here, by the way, Samantha, unbelievable.

• 30:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 30:47Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 30:47Speaker 00

  And it's his odyssey.

• 30:49Josh Horowitz?

  She's fantastic in it, yeah.

• 30:50Speaker 00

  She's great. So.

• 30:53Josh Horowitz?

  Time is the best.

• 30:55Speaker 00

  Time will be my friend with those three movies. I think they're all brilliant movies.

• 30:59Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 30:59Speaker 00

  And for whatever reason, they weren't seen.

• 31:02Josh Horowitz?

  One other thing I want to mention on Jacob's Ladder, I don't know if you're aware of this. It's been brought to my attention. Apparently, the video game series Silent Hill is heavily influenced.

• 31:11Speaker 00

  By what?

• 31:11Josh Horowitz?

  By Jacob's Ladder.

• 31:12Speaker 00

  Oh, really?

• 31:12Josh Horowitz?

  Have you heard that?

• 31:13Speaker 00

  I haven't seen any money for that.

• 31:17Josh Horowitz?

  Show it to me. If it's so influential, where's the money?

• 31:20Speaker 00

  Lawsuit. No, no, no, that's cool.

• 31:24Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 31:24Speaker 00

  That's cool. It's a great movie. I mean, Bruce Joel Rubin, who wrote Jacob's Ladder, had, you know, kind of based it on the Tibetan Book of the Dead. There's so many layers of philosophy and, and, you know, different ways of thinking in it.

• 31:41Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 31:42Speaker 00

  That are so intriguing. And Adrian Lyon created a vibrant, scary film, you know? I'm really proud of that. That was my first starring role in a movie.

• 31:58Speaker 05

  More Happy, Say Confused coming up.

• 32:05Speaker 05

  The world of Sonic the Hedgehog has been thrust into a not-so-dark, not-so-stormy, hard-boiled detective story that probably nobody saw coming. Follow Sonic and the intrepid Chaotix detective agency as they take on their biggest case yet. This high-flying, action-packed adventure will take them across the world, fighting for every clue they can find. It's one heck of a tale, which is good, because this story might be the only thing that can save their lives.

• 32:42Speaker 06

  Well, if that's all, I can just dispose of you. Wait, what?

• 32:49Speaker 05

  All will be revealed in Sonic the Hedgehog Presents: The Chaotix Case Files. Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts. The Chaotix are on the case.

• 33:05Speaker 07

  Hey, I'm Ashley, host of Crime Salad. And every week, my husband Ricky joins me as my partner in crime. We know the true crime space is crowded, so we skip the loud, bubbly small talk and get straight to the facts of the most gripping cases. If you want to see what we're all about, check out our recent two-parter deep dive, She Saved Him, Can You Save Her? covering the baffling Rebecca Zahau case. If you want a true crime podcast that feels authentic and respects the details, come check us out. Search Crime Salad wherever you get your podcasts.

• 33:44Josh Horowitz?

  Well, you do another starring role not so long after. I mean, it must have been a huge moment to work with Robert Altman.

• 33:49Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 33:49Josh Horowitz?

  And the player, you know, all of his films are important in their own ways. But that was kind of like his comeback movie, comeback movie at the time, right?

• 33:57Speaker 00

  It was.

• 33:57Josh Horowitz?

  As I recall. And again, remains a classic. Whether you're like a Hollywood insider or not, it plays. It's kind of, you know, I think of the opening shot, the iconic eight-minute tracking shot. Did you get along well famously with Altman?

• 34:11Speaker 00

  Loved him to death.

• 34:12Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 34:14Speaker 00

  I was so blessed to, first of all, meet him. He was a hero of mine. When I saw Nashville, I realized what film could be. I was really scared to meet him. And immediately, he made me at home. It was actually at his home, and he had lunch ready. And he just wanted to talk. I was asking my agent for sides, and they said, no sides, you know, no audition. He just wants to meet you. And at that point, he was trying to set up shortcuts.

• 34:48Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 34:49Speaker 00

  So we had a nice, long talk, and, you know, we smoked a joint at the end of it. And I thought, wow, this guy is amazing. I love him. And then he didn't get shortcuts put together. And I was being offered a part in a film. And I had to decide whether I was going to do this thing. But I had the opportunity, if I waited, possibly, that the player would get financed. And I turned down a lot of money with the off-chance that I could get this thing with Robert Altman. And then that came through. And that was another defining moment in my career,

• 35:33Speaker 00

  because not only did I get to work with one of the great filmmakers of all time, but I was able to look at the experience as film school, because I knew I was about to direct Bob Roberts.

• 35:44Josh Horowitz?

  You can see the linkage, of course. There's got to be that, that's got to lead.

• 35:47Speaker 00

  So I was watching everything. And Bob, by the way, when I first arrived at the production office on The Player before we started shooting, basically said, I want to make a deal with you. We're going to do things to this script. We're going to change stuff. And we're going to do things to this schedule. We're going to change things a bit. We're going to go with a different way. And it might piss some producers off. So let's make a deal. If the producers start messing with you, I will walk off the set. If the producers start messing with me, you walk off.

• 36:26Josh Horowitz?

  We got each other.

• 36:26Speaker 00

  I said, deal. Like, you are a rogue. And I want to be hanging out with you.

• 36:31Josh Horowitz?

  That's the thing about him. He was like a rogue that could sometimes work within the system. He found a way. I mean, he often was on his own path.

• 36:38Speaker 00

  He certainly was. But he was iconoclastic, and he was making movies that only he could make.

• 36:44Josh Horowitz?

  And actors loved him.

• 36:45Speaker 00

  And we loved him, because he allowed you such freedom. And so I was, you know, in offices with him, observing him and rewriting with him and watching him deal with department heads, where someone would come in and say, what do, Bob, what do you think about this? You know, what do you think about this and this, and this, and this, and this? And Bob would always say, what do you think, right?

• 37:11Josh Horowitz?

  Imagine that, yeah.

• 37:11Speaker 00

  And the prop guy or the costume person would then talk. And he'd nod his head, and he'd say, well, okay, good, let's think about it, right? Now, I asked him, why'd you do that? Because you know what you want, right? He said, yeah, I know what I want, but why would I ever cheat myself out of a better idea?

• 37:28Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 37:29Speaker 00

  And which was exactly what the lesson that I wish everyone could hear. It's, you can be brilliant, but to have humility with that brilliance is the golden ticket. That is, that is what makes everything possible. Arrogance, when people start considering themselves auteurs, watch out.

• 37:53Josh Horowitz?

  God-given genius, it all comes through me.

• 37:55Speaker 00

  Yeah. Because they've stopped learning.

• 37:58Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 37:58Speaker 00

  And there's nothing more boring than someone that stopped learning.

• 38:02Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 38:03Speaker 00

  They're just talking the same stuff. And they're not curious anymore. And curiosity is what makes someone interesting.

• 38:14Josh Horowitz?

  And not to mention, you're empowering those around you and making them feel like they're engaged and not just like clocking in and out and just like do what the man wants.

• 38:22Speaker 00

  And then at the end of shooting, every day, we'd go to dailies. And there'd be wine and cheese and snacks. And everyone could come. So you had actors and department heads, and even the crew members, if they wanted to come, could come.

• 38:37Josh Horowitz?

  Love it.

• 38:38Speaker 00

  And everyone would see what we did the day before. And if there were mistakes, we would know it. Everyone would know it. And Bob's reaction wasn't anger. It was like, well, just get them next time.

• 38:51Josh Horowitz?

  A lot of great things about Bob Roberts. One of them is that you gave us Jack Black. Do we credit you with launching Jack Black as an actor?

• 39:01Speaker 00

  Even before his first movie, which was Bob Roberts, he was a member of the Actors Gang.

• 39:07Josh Horowitz?

  Right. You guys go way back.

• 39:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, I cast him in a play when he was 12 years old.

• 39:13Josh Horowitz?

  That's amazing. Now, was the 12-year-old Jack that you saw basically what we see today? Like, was the germs there? Was the seeds there?

• 39:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, the seed, the germ was there, but not the wildness, not the craziness.

• 39:29Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 39:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, he was a relatively normal 12-year-old.

• 39:32Josh Horowitz?

  So what did you see? What was so exciting?

• 39:34Speaker 00

  Well, he was also brilliant.

• 39:35Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 39:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 39:37Josh Horowitz?

  So that must be remarkable. And that's one of the pleasures of sticking in this business as long as folks are able to, is like to go along the journey with folks and use the work of Jack at different points in your lives and to see where he's gone. It must just like boggle your mind to see what he's capable of dramatically, comedically, et cetera.

• 39:53Speaker 00

  I was invited, they were coming through New York, Tenacious D, the music he does with Carl Gass, who were both members of the Actors Gang. As a matter of fact, they met on a show called Carnage that we toured to New York Public Theater and to Edinburgh Festival with. They said, we're gonna be playing at The Garden and you should come see us. And I thought, of course, there was gonna be the theater at The Garden, you know?

• 40:23Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 40:24Speaker 00

  There's two venues at the Masters Square Garden and, you know, they were in The Garden and they sold out The Garden. I just couldn't believe, I was like, what the hell happened?

• 40:34Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 40:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was, I've seen them several times live. It's always fun. Yeah, I love when people I know get success. I think it's, it's just such a thrill to watch people enter into that. And I have, on occasion, been able to give some advice on how to avoid, you know, the pitfalls and dangers that are there when fame presents its beautiful and ugly head.

• 41:05Josh Horowitz?

  Do you have a go-to? What's like the Tim Robbins 101 to handling fame and success?

• 41:14Speaker 00

  Don't believe it.

• 41:15Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, don't believe the hype. If you believe the hype, then you're gonna believe the critics, that kind of thing?

• 41:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, but more, more that don't believe that you've been elevated above anything.

• 41:25Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 41:27Speaker 00

  Because at the, at the end of the day, when you walk onto a set, you still gotta remember your lines and you still gotta do something fresh and new. And anything you've done in the past is irrelevant.

• 41:38Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 41:39Speaker 00

  So if you're famous for what you've done in the past, that's like, is not very helpful in dealing with new creativity.

• 41:48Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 41:49Speaker 00

  It's also can turn you into a bit of an asshole, too. And, and I've seen that happen. And sometimes people just need a humility check. I remember telling a friend of mine that was very famous, you know, he was talking about how, you know, in a way that was like, like, I had to respond, like, listen, guy, it's, it's, it's really great that's happening, but it does not elevate you into any kind of realm above simple human being.

• 42:23Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, you're still the same.

• 42:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, still the same person.

• 42:26Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 42:28Speaker 00

  Happy for you, but don't go there.

• 42:31Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 42:31Speaker 00

  It is a, it's a dangerous road.

• 42:33Josh Horowitz?

  It's a trap. I mentioned the other film that I'm obsessed with in that period of time in the 90s is Hot Sucker Proxy, which has its lovers out there.

• 42:40Speaker 00

  No, I'm glad you're obsessed with that.

• 42:42Josh Horowitz?

  It's a great movie.

• 42:43Speaker 00

  I love that movie.

• 42:43Josh Horowitz?

  Right?

• 42:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 42:44Josh Horowitz?

  For context, I think folks that listen and watch the podcast know, but it's, it's a Coen Brothers film, the union of the Coen Brothers and Joel Silver. Sure, why not? And Paul Newman, Jennifer Jason-Leigh, like, come on, like, just on another level.

• 42:58Speaker 00

  The best.

• 42:59Josh Horowitz?

  Magical. Do you remember, I mean, there's a lot of lore about the casting, that Joel wanted like Tom Cruise, that Winona Ryder, who I also love, came close to almost playing that role. Do you remember being in the audition room for that?

• 43:12Speaker 00

  I remember being in the audition room with Winona and with a few other actresses for that part. That was the major, that was the role that they were auditioning for.

• 43:20Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 43:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, that was, I think I had to audition, too, at the beginning. I think what they were after was they were after actors that really understood what the 40s and 30s and 40s madcap comedies were like, you know, that kind of fast-talking.

• 43:40Josh Horowitz?

  The cadence was so specific.

• 43:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, it really, if you didn't get that, they didn't, they weren't gonna be able to work with you. And I love those films. I mean, My Man Godfrey's one of my favorite films.

• 43:51Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 43:53Speaker 00

  I dreamed about being in a film like that. And it was such a lovely opportunity. Also, you know, after playing in Jacob's Ladder and Shawshank, to play a total goofball.

• 44:06Josh Horowitz?

  It's kind of an idiot. A beautiful idiot, a beautiful, sweet idiot.

• 44:09Speaker 00

  A naive, brilliant idiot.

• 44:12Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, you know, for kids.

• 44:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 44:15Josh Horowitz?

  Do you ever get that? Do people ever quote you, you know, for kids?

• 44:17Speaker 00

  Yes, occasionally.

• 44:18Josh Horowitz?

  I would.

• 44:19Speaker 00

  I, one of my keepsakes from that film was a, you know, those industrial drawings they do, like three, you know, the overview, the side view, the side, the bottom view?

• 44:29Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 44:29Speaker 00

  Of the hula hoop. It's a circle aligned and aligned. It is so great. The art direction on that was just brilliant. And.

• 44:38Josh Horowitz?

  Roger Deakins, also a cinematographer, right?

• 44:40Speaker 00

  Exactly, yes. Roger, who I met on that film, so I, when I was offered Shawshank Redemption, it was a brilliant script, one of the best scripts I've ever read, but it was a first-time director, Frank. And I got, in my contract and the negotiations, I got them to agree to allow me cinematographer approval.

• 45:07Josh Horowitz?

  Never heard of that, even being.

• 45:08Speaker 00

  So I gave the script to Roger.

• 45:12Josh Horowitz?

  Wow.

• 45:13Speaker 00

  And I said, I'm gonna be doing this movie. I'd, I'd love for you to do it. And that's how he came on. So that film, obviously, you know, was such a beautiful thing, how it turned out and how it continues to just surprise me every day.

• 45:38Josh Horowitz?

  Remarkable. Yeah, I mean, so many people's favorite films that talk about a film that has an enduring legacy and will clearly always will.

• 45:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 45:45Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, so much iconography, so much great iconography in that film. When I think of Deakins, how he shot it in Dair Bond, his first feature as a director, like, how do you even do that?

• 45:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 45:55Josh Horowitz?

  But like, you know, raising your arms in the rain, like, do you remember, like, shooting that Immersion, that shot? And, you know, it's the cliche question, but like, do you feel in the moment like, oh, this is like a special, this is a special shot? This could have some resonance?

• 46:10Speaker 00

  I did, I did, yes. I also needed to get whatever was on me off because I was falling into a real creek. And the real creek was runoff from farmland.

• 46:23Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 46:24Speaker 00

  So it was toxic. So I, I needed.

• 46:27Josh Horowitz?

  Urgency.

• 46:28Speaker 00

  I had an urgency to let that rain get the toxins off me. That's amazing. Yeah.

• 46:36Josh Horowitz?

  And that's now probably just still, that will be a daily part of your life, Shawshank. That's just there.

• 46:41Speaker 00

  But Hot Sucker was as well, you know, there were two, I think they came out in the same year. And there were two difficult titles, too, you know, there's two difficult titles to remember. But I, I really love, you know, Shawshank gets a lot of attention and I love that.

• 46:57Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 46:58Speaker 00

  But Hot Sucker's like that kid that didn't get the attention. You know, it's funny, I asked Bob Altman, what was his favorite film of his was?

• 47:07Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 47:07Speaker 00

  And he says, I think about my films the way I think about my kids.

• 47:10Josh Horowitz?

  The ones that didn't get.

• 47:11Speaker 00

  The ones that don't get attention are my favorites.

• 47:14Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 47:14Speaker 00

  And so, you know, in a way, Hot Sucker is one of my favorites for that reason because it, it really didn't get the audience it deserved.

• 47:22Josh Horowitz?

  There's a timeless quality about it. It feels like it could have been made in the 30s or today, and it's just sort of like a magic, it's a jewel box of a movie to me.

• 47:30Speaker 00

  It is. And it's a great movie to watch on New Year's Eve, too.

• 47:34Josh Horowitz?

  Do you still remember the Fight On Dear Muncie song?

• 47:39Speaker 00

  Well, I don't know if I could sing it for you right now.

• 47:41Josh Horowitz?

  You can't say yes and then no. Give me something.

• 47:45Speaker 00

  No, I don't remember.

• 47:47Speaker 00

  That didn't take long.

• 47:49Josh Horowitz?

  To get Jennifer Jason Leigh in here. The duet is what it's all about. Her trying to keep up.

• 47:53Speaker 00

  Trying to keep up, yeah. She's brilliant in that.

• 47:55Josh Horowitz?

  It's so good. Okay, jumping around a bit. I mean, we should give some props to your Oscar win for Mystic River. Remarkable, working with Quint is a moment for any actor. You obviously have worked with Sean in a couple of different capacities as well, but like Quint is so famous. Minimal amount of takes, like talk about, like you talk about Altman having a hospitable working environment. Quint, in his own way, same kind of thing.

• 48:19Speaker 00

  Really?

• 48:19Josh Horowitz?

  Did you feel like that, like, was that eye opening for you as someone who had already directed by that point to see how Quint ran a set and was able to just...

• 48:28Speaker 00

  I loved it. I loved it. We were out every day. It started every day at nine. We're out by two.

• 48:35Josh Horowitz?

  It's like not even, shouldn't be allowed. Like, how is that possible?

• 48:38Speaker 00

  It should be allowed and it should be encouraged.

• 48:40Josh Horowitz?

  No, it's true. You got, I got it.

• 48:43Speaker 00

  What it's about is discipline.

• 48:44Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 48:45Speaker 00

  It was, we knew going in that Clint was only getting about one take.

• 48:52Speaker 00

  He had three setups usually on every scene, one take. So you had three chances.

• 48:59Speaker 00

  And so we came in ready. We came in disciplined.

• 49:05Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 49:06Speaker 00

  And all of us would, after we got off at two o'clock, would look at the schedule the next day and we'd go into a room in the hotel and start rehearsing. So we were ready. All great actors in that film. All bought in completely.

• 49:23Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 49:24Speaker 00

  And what it, here's the great thing about it, is usually when you're doing a movie, it's not necessarily always in order, the scenes you're doing.

• 49:32Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 49:33Speaker 00

  So you're scrambling to remember what state of emotion and what urgency and what intensity you had in a scene, because you're playing the scene after that one.

• 49:43Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 49:44Speaker 00

  A month later.

• 49:45Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 49:46Speaker 00

  Well, with this one, you didn't have to catalog in your memory, you didn't have to go, which take were they using?

• 49:53Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 49:54Speaker 00

  Cause I did it in many different ways.

• 49:56Josh Horowitz?

  I did it twice. It's one of those two.

• 49:58Speaker 00

  I did it, I know exactly what I did.

• 50:01Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 50:01Speaker 00

  So I know exactly how to modulate my performance, you know, from beginning to end.

• 50:06Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 50:07Speaker 00

  It also provided us an opportunity to really

• 50:14Speaker 00

  get some sleep, have meals with each other.

• 50:19Speaker 00

  This is the way, by the way, it started when I was doing episodics in LA in the eighties.

• 50:26Speaker 00

  Crews would get home at night and see their families and raise them. Or if you were young, you could have a date after you worked on a movie set. And then it got into, I think it's everything started deteriorating post-mergers.

• 50:45Josh Horowitz?

  I was gonna say, the bottom line's about efficiencies and money, like at the end of the day, right? Like, that's kind of the core problem.

• 50:51Speaker 00

  That respect for the crews went away.

• 50:56Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 50:56Speaker 00

  The whole idea that crews are human beings and they have families seemed to have been forgotten.

• 51:02Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 51:03Speaker 00

  And Clint never forgot that. Clint always knew that that was the way that it should be done. And demanded the discipline and the quiet and the concentration on a set. It was very zen. It was very masterful. And it was a beautiful experience.

• 51:24Josh Horowitz?

  Famously doesn't scream action, just like, on your own time or whatever, right? Or when you're ready.

• 51:29Speaker 00

  When you wanna go, go.

• 51:30Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 51:32Speaker 00

  Alright, let's start.

• 51:33Josh Horowitz?

  So great.

• 51:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 51:35Josh Horowitz?

  I would imagine in a different kind of environment, here's a left field one. You probably don't get asked a lot about working with Brian De Palma on Mission to Mars. I mean, I respect Brian De Palma's work, but I know he's also, you know, a tough cookie as a filmmaker.

• 51:47Speaker 00

  I loved him.

• 51:47Josh Horowitz?

  Did you? You got along?

• 51:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 51:50Josh Horowitz?

  What's your remembrance? Cause that was kind of his last, like Hollywood movie. He had the, he had the money, he had the budget. Clearly it didn't whatever click for whatever reason. It was a happy experience though for you?

• 52:02Speaker 00

  Um, yes, I would say that the happy experience, yeah, I had, I was, yes, why not? It was, it was fun. I was working with Don Cheadle, who became a friend.

• 52:16Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 52:17Speaker 00

  I liked the cast. I liked, I had my family with me, which is always nice. It was the summer in Vancouver.

• 52:26Speaker 00

  I was able to go down to Seattle to see friends. Yeah, it was a good time.

• 52:30Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. Yeah, another master. You did get to reteam with Tom for War of the Worlds with Spielberg.

• 52:36Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 52:37Josh Horowitz?

  And you got this like nice, it's like, almost like this like separate Twilight Zone episode in the middle of this great movie, War of the Worlds. I mean, is that, what are, what are you, it must've been meaningful to reunite with Tom, but also to get a chance to work with Spielberg in that context. What do you remember about your experience on War of the Worlds?

• 52:57Speaker 00

  It was, what I remember the most, it was great to work with Tom and of course Stephen. But what I remember the most was how Dakota looked like an adult to me. She was so professional and so concentrated. And I, it was as if, it was as if she was a mature actress.

• 53:24Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 53:25Speaker 00

  And that was rare, so rare for a kid, you know?

• 53:29Josh Horowitz?

  She was just here last week, literally.

• 53:31Speaker 00

  Yeah. I ran into her out in LA a few weeks ago and it was really nice to see her. I hadn't seen her since she was a little kid.

• 53:39Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 53:40Speaker 00

  And she's, she's got good parents. She did well. Her sister's doing well. It's all nice to see.

• 53:49Josh Horowitz?

  Let's talk a little bit of where you're at now. We mentioned at the start, I got a chance to see you briefly in San Diego for Silo. You had, we can now say it, your dramatic return from the dead. He's, he's back. Bernard's okay.

• 54:01Speaker 00

  Or is he?

• 54:01Josh Horowitz?

  Or is he?

• 54:05Josh Horowitz?

  The rewards of this kind of ongoing show, spending a lot of time shooting in London, as I, as I understand it, right? Working with a great ensemble and Rebecca Ferguson, et cetera. What's been the joy of Silo these last few years for you?

• 54:20Speaker 00

  Oh, what a gift. Great crew, great production team, producers, directors, writers, Graham Yosts, editing it all. Hiring good people, 10 hour days.

• 54:36Josh Horowitz?

  Again, it goes back to quality of...

• 54:38Speaker 00

  People having lives.

• 54:39Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 54:40Speaker 00

  It's so essential. People able to go home, see their kids.

• 54:45Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 54:46Speaker 00

  It creates a completely different environment than the one I've been used to over these past few years. It's, it's this idea that we are all professionals. We can do this in 10 hours. We don't have to go into 14, 16 hour days. It's, I just had this, you know, random thought, you know, a few years before I did Silo, it was like, this is the 21st century and our union is okay with us working 16 hour days.

• 55:16Josh Horowitz?

  Going in the wrong direction. What, what happened?

• 55:20Speaker 00

  Why wasn't that part of the negotiation? First off, flat out, we're not letting our actors work more than 12 hours. That's it. Figure it out.

• 55:32Josh Horowitz?

  Light in the sand, right? Yeah.

• 55:35Speaker 00

  I, I just, yeah, anyway, don't get me started on the unions, but but Silo was, not only was it good people, but the ability to work on that kind of material at that particular time when we started it.

• 55:53Josh Horowitz?

  COVID times, right? Yeah.

• 55:55Speaker 00

  So rare.

• 55:55Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 55:56Speaker 00

  It was like, I couldn't, actually, I just couldn't believe it. I was, I read that, the first season scripts. And I thought, how is this possible that they are doing something that is completely about what we are going through right now?

• 56:13Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, how rare is that? Yeah.

• 56:14Speaker 00

  It's so rare.

• 56:15Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 56:18Speaker 00

  A controlled society where if you do not behave and do what the government wants, you will be banished. We had just lived in that.

• 56:28Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 56:29Speaker 00

  And whatever you think about what went on, it is metaphorically what the Silo is. And I thought, I saw it as a great cautionary tale. And the character, as Graham described him to me, was a powerful person, but he said, have patience with it. He's not, he is not what he seems to be, which is a great thing.

• 57:02Josh Horowitz?

  Any actor wants to hear that, right?

• 57:05Speaker 00

  And he came through with that in season three. He, he, there was such a great turn. And it's everything you want to do as an actor. Like, how can you, like, your arc starts here and

• 57:17Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 57:18Speaker 00

  Gets into this weird place over here. It's usually arcs are like this. It's not very much of an arc. But this one was magnificent and, and then to get to work with Common and Rebecca, it was, you know, and Harriet Walp, it's just so great. It's just, yeah, I loved it. I loved being in London. I loved the way I was treated

• 57:45Speaker 00

  by the production and by Apple. And they're doing good stuff, Apple. They, they, they have respect for good writing and good direction and good acting, which I can't say of all the major producers in streaming right now. They have, they have a real understanding of the creative process, Apple does. And they have also a, a certain intelligence about what makes a good series.

• 58:16Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. What are you, what are you losing more sleep over, getting more up in the arms over lately? The prospect of AI dominating or the consolidation of media, the increasing consolidation, I should say, of media?

• 58:31Speaker 00

  Well, they're both bad news. The consolidation of media has been happening for quite a long time.

• 58:37Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 58:37Speaker 00

  And we see it in the results of what is being produced. There's less and less risk-taking. Those that do take risks are entering into a pretty hostile marketplace. And AI is, you know, the beginning of the end for truth, really. I'm now looking, as I'm looking through social media, I'm now, I'm now able to still identify what is fake and what is not.

• 59:19Speaker 00

  They're gonna try to get better and better at that. But I also have a very strong faith in humanity and in artistry. And I know that for years, that same kind of formula has existed. There is the standardized kind of by rote script that you read. This is pre-AI. This kind of formulaic way of writing. And that's usually being done because they feel that's what the studio wants.

• 59:55Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 59:56Speaker 00

  And what you get is more and more boring.

• 59:59Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, iterative and it just gets.

• 1:00:01Speaker 00

  Yeah. And so that's already existed.

• 1:00:05Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 1:00:05Speaker 00

  The fact that they're putting that through AI is even worse for them because it's just gonna get more and more.

• 1:00:10Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:11Speaker 00

  Based on what has happened in the past.

• 1:00:14Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:15Speaker 00

  However, these cells working on up here are unique and unique to every individual. And that will create unique artistry. I have no doubt about that. One thing I do know, as someone that has done a lot of theater, is that you will never replace that.

• 1:00:38Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:39Speaker 00

  They're trying, you know, to, to do like what they think is our innovative things in theater by using AI. It's just ridiculous. Give me a blank stage, eight good actors, and a piece of material, and I will make magic for you. I know how to do that.

• 1:01:01Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:02Speaker 00

  I did a production of Midsummer Night's Dream with no sets. And I had this one kid come up to me and said that my favorite set of all time was Midsummer Night's Dream. Because we created, through movement and through using different sticks and flowers, we created a hundred different looks in that forest. But it was all done with maybe a budget of $500.

• 1:01:31Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 1:01:32Speaker 00

  You can make magic with, in a live situation with actors and with people's imagination in the audience. That will never be replaced by AI. They can get slick with you in movies. We've already seen how CGI can pretty much do anything. But at the same time, you can tell. And it becomes, it becomes so much that you think, wow, they really, you know, created a big bang'em up, bashing moment there, but you're not moved.

• 1:02:14Josh Horowitz?

  No, it's soulless. It doesn't feel, yeah.

• 1:02:16Speaker 00

  Doesn't feel real.

• 1:02:17Josh Horowitz?

  Grounded in anything, yeah.

• 1:02:18Speaker 00

  You're witnessing something that's manipulated. You're not witnessing something real.

• 1:02:24Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:24Speaker 00

  Whereas a real special effect, you register in a different way. You go, wow, that's, how did they do that?

• 1:02:31Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:31Speaker 00

  Now the wonder is, yeah, they did it with AI, so, you know, I'm bored. Again, it's, it's, can you take, can you be a Luddite in, in your, with your creativity? Can you use principles of Ludditism to, to address creativity? In other words, get back to the basics. What are the essentials that you need to create magic? And can you do it with less? That's what I find interesting. And what I've had to live with my whole life because I've never had a budget.

• 1:03:13Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 1:03:13Speaker 00

  That is, allows me to do that kind of stuff.

• 1:03:16Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 1:03:16Speaker 00

  You have to be creative. You have to use your limitations to your benefit.

• 1:03:22Josh Horowitz?

  As much as I'd like to keep you the rest of the afternoon, a couple of quick things, a couple of random things before I let you go, okay? A couple rumor, rumor rolls that I've heard about over the years. Is it true that you almost did Quiz Show way back when?

• 1:03:33Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:03:34Josh Horowitz?

  Is that a regret? I mean, it's a great movie.

• 1:03:36Speaker 00

  No, not at all. I had another thing I had to do, it just didn't work out.

• 1:03:39Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 1:03:39Speaker 00

  I would have loved to have worked with Robert Redford. I admired him so much.

• 1:03:42Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:43Speaker 00

  But one of the true geniuses, great people, also model for any actor coming up. If you make a lot of money, provide opportunity for others.

• 1:03:54Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, no, his legacy is beyond just his films.

• 1:03:56Speaker 00

  He made so many filmmakers out of Sundance. That's just, that's his legacy.

• 1:04:00Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:01Speaker 00

  He's a, that's the way you should live your life. Same thing with Newman. You know who I got to work with? Paul Newman, who took his money, his, his influence and created products that created opportunities for the disadvantaged.

• 1:04:17Josh Horowitz?

  Totally. Here's a super random one. There's, there was a report way back when, talk about these kind of silly comic book things, that you almost played Doctor Doom 20 years ago in the Fantastic Four movie of 2005.

• 1:04:29Speaker 00

  Not true.

• 1:04:30Josh Horowitz?

  Not true.

• 1:04:30Speaker 00

  Not true.

• 1:04:31Josh Horowitz?

  Don't remember that coming up.

• 1:04:32Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:04:32Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, we've set the record straight. I do this with actors with.

• 1:04:36Speaker 00

  No more rumors?

• 1:04:37Josh Horowitz?

  That's it, that's all I got for you. Is there one you want to put out there?

• 1:04:41Speaker 00

  Well, there's a lot.

• 1:04:44Josh Horowitz?

  How about this? I do this with actors with very impressive filmographies. We're gonna pick your favorite, your best film in your career, Tim.

• 1:04:50Speaker 00

  All right.

• 1:04:50Josh Horowitz?

  And you're gonna choose it, bracket style. So for instance, we're pitting against each other.

• 1:04:55Speaker 00

  Cradle or Rock.

• 1:04:57Josh Horowitz?

  We're not doing directing efforts, we're doing the acting.

• 1:04:59Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:05:00Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. Let's start with my two faves. How are the duck versus hot sucker proxy, which, okay? Bull Durham versus Jacob's Ladder.

• 1:05:08Speaker 00

  Not fair.

• 1:05:09Josh Horowitz?

  That's why this is, game is so great.

• 1:05:11Speaker 00

  No, it's not a great game.

• 1:05:12Josh Horowitz?

  No, it's great.

• 1:05:12Speaker 00

  They're two totally different movies.

• 1:05:14Josh Horowitz?

  I know, but like today, what do you choose? Just today, at this moment.

• 1:05:16Speaker 00

  Today, it's summer, it's baseball, it's Bull Durham.

• 1:05:19Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, Bull Durham. Bob Roberts versus The Shawshank Redemption. Yeah.

• 1:05:26Speaker 00

  Oh, that's terrible.

• 1:05:28Josh Horowitz?

  I know, it's great.

• 1:05:29Speaker 00

  That's terrible. No, I'm not answering that question.

• 1:05:30Josh Horowitz?

  Yes, you are, you can do it.

• 1:05:31Speaker 00

  I'm taking a pass on that one.

• 1:05:32Josh Horowitz?

  No, you've come this far.

• 1:05:33Speaker 00

  They're both important movies to me.

• 1:05:35Josh Horowitz?

  I agree, we're not eliminating one from the universe. We're just saying, at this moment, you're choosing one.

• 1:05:40Speaker 00

  At this moment, I'm choosing the one that I also directed.

• 1:05:44Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, Bob Roberts it is. Mystic River versus The Player.

• 1:05:50Speaker 00

  This is a terrible game. Why are you doing this?

• 1:05:53Josh Horowitz?

  Jack Black did this, it melted his brain too. You're in good company.

• 1:05:56Speaker 00

  I don't, you know, it's like you're, it's like you're making me choose between two things I love.

• 1:06:02Josh Horowitz?

  We'll do your children next.

• 1:06:03Speaker 00

  No, it's like, no. I'm not gonna sacrifice my children for you, God.

• 1:06:09Josh Horowitz?

  For my amusement? Mystic River versus The Player?

• 1:06:13Speaker 00

  The Player changed my life. And I met Robert Altman, but Mystic River changed my life and I met my niece with. It's a tie.

• 1:06:21Josh Horowitz?

  Oh my God, Tim.

• 1:06:22Speaker 00

  So is Bob Roberts and whatever that was pitted against.

• 1:06:25Josh Horowitz?

  Tim, you lose this game.

• 1:06:27Speaker 00

  I'm just in a tie.

• 1:06:28Josh Horowitz?

  You've lost the game.

• 1:06:29Speaker 00

  I'm happy to lose this game.

• 1:06:33Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, we're gonna end here. Happy second few profoundly random questions. Are you a cat or a dog person?

• 1:06:40Speaker 00

  Different times of my life, I have been cat person. I'm cat person currently.

• 1:06:44Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 1:06:45Speaker 00

  And other times of my life, I was a dog person and I love dogs.

• 1:06:49Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 1:06:49Speaker 00

  Not a better friend in the world when you're alone. The best. Cats are more like, you know, I am a superior being to you. I pity you, human being. And I'll come by you if you want to pet me, but I don't really care.

• 1:07:10Josh Horowitz?

  Gotta respect that in a way.

• 1:07:11Speaker 00

  You, you, you're, you don't have enough fur on you.

• 1:07:14Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:14Speaker 00

  You're pathetic, the way you live your life, but I have pity on you.

• 1:07:19Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, just feeling constantly judged.

• 1:07:20Speaker 00

  So I'll let you pet me if you want, yeah.

• 1:07:22Josh Horowitz?

  What do you collect?

• 1:07:25Speaker 00

  What do I collect? I collect baseball cards.

• 1:07:27Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, yeah?

• 1:07:28Speaker 00

  I collect photographs.

• 1:07:34Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. Favorite video game of all time?

• 1:07:37Speaker 00

  I don't play video games.

• 1:07:38Josh Horowitz?

  Never played of a game, not like the Ms. Pac-Man back in the day, nothing. Okay.

• 1:07:43Speaker 00

  Nope. I used to play pinball.

• 1:07:46Josh Horowitz?

  Will allow it.

• 1:07:47Speaker 00

  You're gonna allow pinball?

• 1:07:48Josh Horowitz?

  Well, after you screwed up the other game, I'm gonna let this one.

• 1:07:53Josh Horowitz?

  Dakota Johnson asked me this, I ask everybody, would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one bee in your butt?

• 1:07:58Speaker 00

  A mouthful of bees? Are they dead or alive?

• 1:08:01Josh Horowitz?

  Great question. They're alive.

• 1:08:03Speaker 00

  Fuck no.

• 1:08:04Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:04Speaker 00

  On the butt.

• 1:08:05Josh Horowitz?

  Yep. What's the wallpaper on your phone?

• 1:08:09Speaker 00

  My girlfriend.

• 1:08:10Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. Last actor you were mistaken for?

• 1:08:14Speaker 00

  Last actor I was mistaken for?

• 1:08:18Speaker 00

  That hasn't happened in a long time.

• 1:08:20Josh Horowitz?

  No?

• 1:08:21Speaker 00

  When I was first starting out, this kid shows up at my door, except I'd done St. Elsewhere. So I hadn't done much.

• 1:08:28Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:29Speaker 00

  And this guy knocks on my door at Westwood. And he asks if Tim Bottoms is here.

• 1:08:39Speaker 00

  And I was freaked out. And the guy was one of these kids that made the trip to Los Angeles for their dreams and didn't understand that you gotta work hard and just thought that if he asked Tim Bottoms for a leg up, he'd give it to him.

• 1:08:55Josh Horowitz?

  That's how it works.

• 1:08:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, that was a sad one. I wrote about that. Yeah, that was a sad one.

• 1:09:01Josh Horowitz?

  What's the worst note a director has ever given you?

• 1:09:03Speaker 00

  Worst note a director's ever given me?

• 1:09:08Speaker 00

  Um, well, I actually thought it was a great note, be better. I'm all into that note.

• 1:09:14Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah?

• 1:09:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:09:15Josh Horowitz?

  You respond to that?

• 1:09:16Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:09:17Josh Horowitz?

  Who gave that to you?

• 1:09:18Speaker 00

  Uh, I forget. I just remember thinking, that's a great note, be better. I'm gonna give that as a director, I wanna give that note, be better.

• 1:09:26Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. Yeah.

• 1:09:28Speaker 00

  Because it's, an actor knows exactly what they need to do better, most of the time.

• 1:09:35Josh Horowitz?

  It's just telling you, double down on what you're doing, or just try?

• 1:09:38Speaker 00

  Just be better.

• 1:09:41Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, alright.

• 1:09:42Speaker 00

  And that can be interpreted any way.

• 1:09:44Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 1:09:45Speaker 00

  Right?

• 1:09:45Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:45Speaker 00

  Um, it's like when I'm working with actors, the Actors Gang, and I'm training them, we have a rule. No, you know, at the end of a scene, or at the end of a workshop, we don't say what negative happened. We say what positive happened. No actor needs to be told that they suck. They know. So why humiliate them in front of other people? It's just, let's just accentuate the positive and move on. Another day will come and you'll, you'll be better. Just so be better.

• 1:10:16Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:10:17Josh Horowitz?

  And finally, in the sort of happy, sad, confused, an actor that makes you happy, you see them on screen, you're in a better mood.

• 1:10:24Speaker 00

  Jimmy Stewart.

• 1:10:25Josh Horowitz?

  Great.

• 1:10:26Speaker 00

  Bill Murray.

• 1:10:27Josh Horowitz?

  Excellent. Movie that makes you sad?

• 1:10:40Speaker 00

  Oh, wow.

• 1:10:41Josh Horowitz?

  They stumped you.

• 1:10:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, I don't know.

• 1:10:43Josh Horowitz?

  Really? You don't have a go-to? You're not a crier in films?

• 1:10:47Speaker 00

  I try to, because of the world being what it is, I try to watch a lot of comics.

• 1:10:52Josh Horowitz?

  I hear you.

• 1:10:55Speaker 00

  Sad movies, uh...

• 1:11:00Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, I don't have one.

• 1:11:02Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. It's A Wonderful Life, Jimmy Stewart, it's like, can bring a tear. There's some emotional stuff in it.

• 1:11:08Speaker 00

  That's an uplifting movie.

• 1:11:09Josh Horowitz?

  In the end, yeah, but you go through an emotional roller coaster, I think, on the journey.

• 1:11:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, but I was thinking of how it leaves you.

• 1:11:16Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, no, 100%.

• 1:11:19Speaker 00

  One of my favorite movies of the past 10 years has been Cold War.

• 1:11:24Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:24Speaker 00

  That was such a beautiful movie. Oh, my goodness.

• 1:11:28Josh Horowitz?

  What's a food that makes you confused?

• 1:11:30Speaker 00

  A food that makes me confused, um...

• 1:11:42Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, anything you put in a microwave.

• 1:11:45Josh Horowitz?

  Anti-microwave.

• 1:11:46Speaker 00

  Oh, hell no.

• 1:11:49Speaker 00

  I mean, like, how can you eat that? I just don't understand why, how people can eat something that has been zapped by a radiated force.

• 1:11:58Josh Horowitz?

  Seems healthy, seems right.

• 1:12:00Speaker 00

  It's all bad.

• 1:12:02Josh Horowitz?

  How could you say that?

• 1:12:03Speaker 00

  It's all bad. Uh, I see some Cheez-Its over there. Those are all bad.

• 1:12:10Josh Horowitz?

  All your triggers are in the room.

• 1:12:11Speaker 00

  Uh, yeah.

• 1:12:15Speaker 00

  My mom, you know, was a macrobotic and organic in 1967, so...

• 1:12:21Josh Horowitz?

  Wow, ahead of her time.

• 1:12:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, way ahead of her time. And so, uh, we weren't allowed processed food, so I'm totally confused by processed food.

• 1:12:30Josh Horowitz?

  You never went off the deep end? You never, like...

• 1:12:32Speaker 00

  Of course I did.

• 1:12:33Josh Horowitz?

  But you came back around.

• 1:12:34Speaker 00

  Any rebellious teenager, I had to eat some Cheetos.

• 1:12:38Speaker 00

  And they were glorious.

• 1:12:39Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:39Speaker 00

  Of this sticky cheese.

• 1:12:41Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, it's still in there somewhere.

• 1:12:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, but they were horrible.

• 1:12:43Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:44Speaker 00

  Inside.

• 1:12:44Josh Horowitz?

  Now you're wise. You know, mom knew best. No more Cheez-Its. That is our PSA for the day. timrobbins.com and no Cheez-Its, everybody.

• 1:12:53Speaker 00

  Do you have a Cheez-It? Like, do they give you those for free?

• 1:12:55Josh Horowitz?

  I wish.

• 1:12:57Speaker 00

  Because you're not getting them anymore.

• 1:12:59Josh Horowitz?

  You ruined my sponsorship deal. Damn you, Tim. This has been a blast. I really appreciate you. As you can tell, I'm a big fan of your work always, in front of and behind the camera. Congratulations on Silo, the new season is out there for everybody. And I, myself, will be digging into your website for Howard the Duck content and more.

• 1:13:19Speaker 00

  Oh, my God, it's so much fun.

• 1:13:20Josh Horowitz?

  I can't wait. Um, hope to chat with you again soon. And again, thank you for the time, man.

• 1:13:25Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 1:13:25Josh Horowitz?

  Appreciate you.

• 1:13:28Speaker 02

  And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't supposed to do this by Josh.

• 1:13:46Speaker 07

  Hi, listeners. We want to tell you about a podcast we love. It's called Rebel Girls, formerly known as Good Night Stories for Rebel Girls. It's about real-life women who are changing the world with their courage, creativity, and big, bold ideas. Want to know how Taylor Swift became a superstar? Or hear how Simone Biles became the greatest athlete of all time? From immersive stories to heartfelt interviews to super smart advice, Rebel Girls brings you stories that will get you fired up to become your best self. There are over 400 episodes for you to explore, with new episodes every week. So, check it out. Listen to Rebel Girls wherever you get your podcasts, and find us on youtube.com/rebelgirls.

• 1:14:31Speaker 07

  And whatever you do, stay rebel.