Why Judy Greer Stopped Drinking, Her Honest Feelings about GLP-1s & Why She Loves Playing the “Best Friend”

Judy Greer (Arrested Development, Marvel’s Ant-Man, 13 Going on 30, Halloween Kills) and Mayim relive the now legendary "Wil Wheaton fiasco", reminisce about THE BIG BANG THEORY (the role Judy continues to be recognized for most today) and their shared love for pickles and Taylor Swift! Judy reveals her powerful journey through perimenopause, from her symptoms and what encouraged her to seek help, to hormones and what has worked for her. She opens up about her body image & self-esteem issues, her thoughts on GLP-1 drugs (Ozempic, Mounjaro, Wegovy) and its effect on the body positivity movement. Judy discusses using alcohol as a reward and to ease social anxiety, sobriety and what it’s taught her about herself, her codependent tendencies, religion's role in processing grief, and how she finds ways to decompress after a particularly traumatic acting role. Mayim and Judy bond over their love of Taylor Swift! Judy recounts her Eras Tour experience and how Folklore made her a “Swiftie.” PLUS, she explains why her mom got fired from being a nun and why playing the "best friend" is her go-to role. Don't miss this raw and inspiring chat! Check out ERIC LARUE in theaters on April 04, 2025!: https://www.fandango.com/eric-larue-2025-239640/movie-overview BialikBreakdown.com https://www.bialikbreakdown.com/ YouTube.com/mayimbialik https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTOocPnDh2YQZZwh86K2OxA Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices https://megaphone.fm/adchoices See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  I want people to be happy and feel good about themselves. But I also noticed, until this drug became part of the mainstream, we were working so hard on accepting bodies of all shapes and sizes and ages. It just took a systemic issue that we were working on. We don't have to work on that anymore. It's another way to separate communities economically from each other. So now you're seeing another class of people able to achieve this standard of beauty that we have been trying to tell ourself doesn't exist.

• 0:34Mayim Bialik?

  You're perfect the way you are, but you'd be more perfect if you just took this drug.

• 0:37Speaker 00

  Take this and you'll be skinny because skinny is better, no matter what. And by the way, I feel that way because I was brought up to feel that way. Because we did talk about weight in my house. I'm the only child and my mother was never not on a diet. She was never not trying to lose weight. That's in my cells of my body. I can look at myself in the mirror and I have two very different feelings about what I see in it. Like you are fat and old and the like, you look fucking awesome. Like you look great. And so maybe you have to buy a bigger size of jeans, but like, that is okay.

• 1:11Mayim Bialik?

  Before we dive into today's episode, I'm going to ask you to do something very quick, very easy, but super helpful. Going to ask you to hit the subscribe button. You see it? Go get it. Hit the subscribe button. It just takes a second, but it means a lot to us. You have probably noticed from all of the comments that we get, many people find that listening to MBB regularly is helping them feel happier, healthier, more inspired. And you know what? That actually is why we are doing this. It makes my heart swell to hear that so many of you are feeling inspired. So subscribing to this show, whether you're listening on YouTube or whether you're listening to it through a podcast app,

• 1:55Mayim Bialik?

  it's the easiest way to ensure that you will never miss an episode. So we don't want you to miss a single one and you don't want to miss a single one. So you'll get notified as soon as a new episode drops. All you have to do is subscribe and share this episode with someone if you enjoy it. We're trying to spread the word. Help us do that. The best way to support our show is by subscribing. So do it now. Thank you so much for being here. We really appreciate you. Let's get back to the good stuff. Hi, I'm Inthealic.

• 2:23Jonathan Cohen?

  I'm Jonathan Cohen.

• 2:24Mayim Bialik?

  And welcome to our Breakdown.

• 2:26Jonathan Cohen?

  We have a fun one today.

• 2:27Mayim Bialik?

  We've got a really fun one today. It would take me forever to read the bio of the actress that we're gonna be talking to today, but I have to say, it's the hardest we've laughed. It's the hardest Valerie and Olivia have laughed. I could even tell from the back of Olivia that she was laughing hard. We're gonna be talking to Judy Greer, and we're gonna talk to her about acting. You probably know her from, I don't know, 13 Going on 30, Arrested Development. I loved her in Ant-Man. She's also in The Descendants. She was in an episode of Big Bang Theory. But Judy's gonna open up about menopause, about sobriety, about beauty, about aging.

• 3:09Jonathan Cohen?

  About acting?

• 3:10Mayim Bialik?

  About acting. Her choice of her movie that's coming out April 4th, Eric LaRue. This is a really funny, fantastic conversation about so many aspects, honestly, of the human experience that even though she's an actress who has over 200 credits to her name, she goes through a lot of the same things that so many of us think about and are experiencing, but has a really, really great lens to frame it. It's such a pleasure to welcome in person Judy Greer.

• 3:39Jonathan Cohen?

  Break it down.

• 3:41Mayim Bialik?

  Welcome, welcome to the Breakdown. Thanks for being here in person.

• 3:44Speaker 00

  So happy to be here in person.

• 3:46Mayim Bialik?

  We have a funny story to tell you.

• 3:48Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 3:49Mayim Bialik?

  About minutes before you got here.

• 3:51Jonathan Cohen?

  The very first time this has ever happened.

• 3:52Mayim Bialik?

  This is the very first time this has ever happened. So I was waiting for you, cuz we're excited. And I was like, she's gonna be here, and like, I want someone by the door, and...

• 3:59Speaker 00

  I was late.

• 4:00Mayim Bialik?

  No, but, wait for it.

• 4:02Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 4:03Mayim Bialik?

  Someone else was on time for what they thought was their recording time today.

• 4:07Speaker 00

  Was it a man?

• 4:08Mayim Bialik?

  It was.

• 4:09Speaker 00

  Because I saw the man.

• 4:10Mayim Bialik?

  It was a man. It was a famous man.

• 4:13Speaker 00

  I thought the man looked familiar.

• 4:15Mayim Bialik?

  So the man, the man was a famous man, but...

• 4:19Speaker 00

  Is he still famous?

• 4:20Mayim Bialik?

  He's still famous. But what I'm gonna say is, I think, even funnier, and shows that the brain just wants to recognize patterns. Because as I stood at the top of the driveway waiting for Judy Greer... What I saw was a man and my brain was like, "Did Judy cut her hair? Wait for it." Then I was like, "Judy's looking..." Judy's looking a little masculine.

• 4:44Speaker 00

  I need to look at our notes for today.

• 4:46Mayim Bialik?

  Wait for it. Judy looks a hell of a lot like Wil Wheaton. And it was Wil Wheaton who...

• 4:54Speaker 00

  Yes, it was. Yeah.

• 4:57Mayim Bialik?

  We're recording with Wil Wheaton a different day, but Wil Wheaton thought that he was recording right now. But just the fact that that's where my brain went. I wasn't like, "Why is Wil Wheaton here? He must have the day wrong." I was like, "Judy Greer must have really changed since Azar left."

• 5:11Speaker 00

  Judy looks so much like Wil Wheaton. Oh my God. That's so funny, because I thought, I saw him. I saw him come and go. Because I parked farther up the street.

• 5:21Mayim Bialik?

  It wasn't his turn. It's your turn.

• 5:23Speaker 00

  I know what kind of car he drives. If you guys want to know, I can totally out him.

• 5:28Jonathan Cohen?

  He was also like, "I have to get out of here." Because he's such a big Judy Greer fan. He was going to get crazy.

• 5:33Mayim Bialik?

  He said, "You won't like what happens to Wil Wheaton in front of Judy Greer," which is like a little bit of a Hulk reference.

• 5:39Speaker 00

  Well, he's not probably much of a fan anymore because I was eating a cookie, carrying a giant bag of water, huffing and puffing. We could have had a double.

• 5:49Jonathan Cohen?

  That's what I said.

• 5:50Speaker 00

  A two for one.

• 5:51Mayim Bialik?

  When I realized what was happening, that's what I shouted, like, "Wil Wheaton's here, not Judy Greer." And they were like, "Let's do it together." I was like, "No, that's..."

• 5:58Speaker 00

  Oh my God. What's he gonna do now? He's got two hours for...

• 6:03Mayim Bialik?

  He lives close. He lives close. And he will come back another day. But Jonathan was like, "That's where your brain went?" I said, "Yeah, Judy Greer must have gotten a haircut. She's looking a little masculine, and she looks a hell of a lot like Wil Wheaton."

• 6:16Speaker 00

  Maybe, you know, there's...

• 6:17Jonathan Cohen?

  You don't look anything like Wil Wheaton, anyway.

• 6:19Speaker 00

  We could probably play siblings, though, don't you think?

• 6:22Mayim Bialik?

  No.

• 6:22Speaker 00

  No?

• 6:24Mayim Bialik?

  Sorry, it's so weird.

• 6:25Speaker 00

  That's...

• 6:27Mayim Bialik?

  We're glad you're here.

• 6:29Speaker 00

  I feel like, though, here's what I think might need to happen is that I might need to show up on his day.

• 6:35Jonathan Cohen?

  Oh my god, that would be amazing.

• 6:37Speaker 00

  What's up?

• 6:38Jonathan Cohen?

  Next Tuesday if you're free.

• 6:41Speaker 00

  Because that would be hilarious.

• 6:43Mayim Bialik?

  We could FaceTime you in, just like to say hello. I mean...

• 6:46Jonathan Cohen?

  I want to get his reaction, I want to see what happens.

• 6:49Speaker 00

  Well, he saw me, I saw him. I just was like spacing out because I had to...

• 6:54Mayim Bialik?

  He has not texted me about it because he probably doesn't want to bother me while we're recording, but I'm sure he'll text me later and be like, "I saw her."

• 7:00Speaker 00

  Oh my god.

• 7:01Mayim Bialik?

  What would have been funnier is if Judy Greer showed up on Wil Wheaton Day and would my brain have said, "Will grew his hair."

• 7:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, Will looks like Judy Greer.

• 7:11Speaker 00

  I don't know. I don't know, we'll never know.

• 7:14Mayim Bialik?

  I mean...

• 7:15Speaker 00

  Actually. Because now, do you feel like, even though this happened one time, will you always be wondering if it's the right person when they walk up?

• 7:22Mayim Bialik?

  Yes.

• 7:23Speaker 00

  The driveway, will you always be like, "I need to brace myself."

• 7:26Mayim Bialik?

  Because it could be Wil Wheaton.

• 7:27Speaker 00

  It could be Wil Wheaton. Or anyone else. Like, the one thing that happens becomes the thing that always happens.

• 7:34Mayim Bialik?

  Yes.

• 7:35Speaker 00

  But it only happened once.

• 7:36Mayim Bialik?

  But this would be certainly an unusual one.

• 7:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:39Jonathan Cohen?

  I mean, the sliding doors moment for me is, did the universe bring us together to do a combo podcast and we turned that gift away?

• 7:47Mayim Bialik?

  We could have broken the internet with Judy Greer and Wil Wheaton in one room.

• 7:51Jonathan Cohen?

  It's just an unexpected pairing, like, no one would have been like, "How do we bring these two people together?"

• 7:58Speaker 00

  I feel like Will and I, we're destined to meet, and it's not today. But it's gonna happen, and we're both gonna have some funny story to tell each other.

• 8:07Mayim Bialik?

  I mean, if you would have been... If you would have been three minutes earlier and he would have been two minutes later in his arrival, he's always on time. Like, he's a very...

• 8:14Jonathan Cohen?

  Wow, that was a hard cut.

• 8:17Mayim Bialik?

  No, no, what I meant was like, Will prides himself on like being very punctual, but like if he had just been like a couple minutes late, it would have happened.

• 8:28Speaker 00

  I also, believe it or not, pride myself on being somewhat punctual. However, on a long-form podcast without any food in my belly, I think I would have fainted and...

• 8:38Mayim Bialik?

  So are we surviving on your gas station cookie right now?

• 8:41Speaker 00

  16 grams of protein in that Bob cookie. By the way, I was so happy that he had that, because it could have been a Snickers bar. But I wouldn't have had a Snickers bar, but like...

• 8:51Mayim Bialik?

  Or a hard-boiled egg. Sometimes they have the hard-boiled egg.

• 8:55Speaker 00

  No one can afford those anymore. What are you talking about? You're crazy.

• 8:59Mayim Bialik?

  Not even the gas station.

• 9:00Speaker 00

  What is this, Bel-Air? What are we, the 1% buying eggs? Insanity.

• 9:07Mayim Bialik?

  At a gas station.

• 9:08Speaker 00

  At a gas station, no less.

• 9:09Jonathan Cohen?

  That or the gas station.

• 9:10Speaker 00

  Do you think that was the first place the eggs went?

• 9:12Mayim Bialik?

  It's a pickle and an egg.

• 9:13Speaker 00

  Where they were like, "No more eggs. No one buys them anyway." And now we can't afford them.

• 9:18Mayim Bialik?

  I think the eggs that weren't getting used up from the supermarket are repackaged and sent to the gas station in little Ziploc baggies.

• 9:25Jonathan Cohen?

  And if not the egg, it could have been the hot dog that has been there for a week and a half.

• 9:30Speaker 00

  I saw that hot dog. I saw that hot dog.

• 9:33Mayim Bialik?

  Or pickle in a bag, which I think is a big upgrade.

• 9:36Speaker 00

  Have you ever had one?

• 9:37Mayim Bialik?

  I have had a pickle in a bag. Disappointing.

• 9:39Speaker 00

  Really?

• 9:40Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah, I've also had the...

• 9:41Speaker 00

  It seems like the pickle juice would just spill everywhere. Do you dump it first? How do you do it?

• 9:46Mayim Bialik?

  No, you just gotta sort of do like a balancing act, then you dump it. But it's kind of like the packages of olives too, you know? It's like, it gets like, it's mushy. It's not, it's not right.

• 9:56Jonathan Cohen?

  What motivated you to get that pickle in a bag?

• 9:59Mayim Bialik?

  Well, funny you should ask. My favorite food...

• 10:01Speaker 00

  Salt.

• 10:02Mayim Bialik?

  Salt. My favorite food is pickles. Pickled anything. Not anything. I don't love pickled cauliflower. I'll just say it right now.

• 10:08Speaker 00

  Really?

• 10:09Mayim Bialik?

  I love pickles.

• 10:10Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 10:10Mayim Bialik?

  I love all kinds of pickles.

• 10:12Jonathan Cohen?

  Yeah, but like, when Judy Greer...

• 10:15Mayim Bialik?

  It's at the gas station.

• 10:16Jonathan Cohen?

  Yeah, but Judy Greer is going to the gas station and she's getting food because like she needs that 16 grams of protein to hold you over.

• 10:21Mayim Bialik?

  Oh, that's not what a pickle does.

• 10:21Speaker 00

  No.

• 10:22Jonathan Cohen?

  You're going to the gas station just for like a little treat?

• 10:24Mayim Bialik?

  A snack-a-ruh. Well, instead of potato chips, it satisfies the salt desire.

• 10:29Speaker 00

  I worked with one nutrition helper once who told me to eat pickles instead of potato chips. I have two more things to say about pickles. That was one, so three total. Two is that my husband grows cucumbers and makes refrigerator pickles.

• 10:46Mayim Bialik?

  Interesting.

• 10:47Jonathan Cohen?

  And they're not in bags.

• 10:49Speaker 00

  They're not in bags. We reuse.

• 10:51Mayim Bialik?

  Spiced or whole or speared?

• 10:53Speaker 00

  The spears.

• 10:55Mayim Bialik?

  Do they have like, sorry, do they have the 45 degree angle? Because like a reels?

• 10:59Speaker 00

  I don't think so.

• 11:00Mayim Bialik?

  Okay.

• 11:00Speaker 00

  But they have angles, but I'm not gonna go 45 degrees.

• 11:04Mayim Bialik?

  Okay, got it.

• 11:04Speaker 00

  And cucumbers that you grow to make pickles are ugly. And they have a lot of like skin tags on them.

• 11:14Mayim Bialik?

  Barnacles.

• 11:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, barnacles. Better word. And so, yes, but he's really proud of his pickles. He even printed up stickers to put on the, and we give them away a lot. Um, second, so that was two, and then three is have you been when in New York City to Pickle City Books? In, um, on the Lower East Side.

• 11:39Mayim Bialik?

  Yes.

• 11:39Speaker 00

  There's a bookstore where, it's still there.

• 11:42Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah.

• 11:43Speaker 00

  I found it. Um, I found it. Just kidding. It's still there. But I accidentally walked by it and I was like, oh, my husband would love this. Um, and then I went back with him to New York City and took him there. But if you give them books for free, they will give you a jar of pickles. And we went on our second from our last day there, so we didn't take them up on that because of, um, not wanting to waste the pickles, because that's a lot of pickles to eat in one night. Although it could be done. Says me. Says me, not says you or my husband. Um, but, uh, yeah, so Pickle City Books is the best pickle bookstore in, I think they claim to be in New York City, the best pickle bookstore in New York City.

• 12:24Speaker 00

  Which then led us around the corner to the pickle, like there's a pickle store around the corner, because they sent us there at Pickle City Books, and then we like, there's, you know, they have, and so, yeah, we got those vats of pick, we each picked a pickle. And they were so nice. They were closing and they were like, you can just have them. And I'm like.

• 12:43Mayim Bialik?

  What kind of pickles does he make? Does he make like a classic dill? Does he do them spicy?

• 12:47Speaker 00

  It's a spicy dill. He puts jalapenos in.

• 12:49Mayim Bialik?

  Oh, wow.

• 12:50Speaker 00

  They're spicy.

• 12:51Mayim Bialik?

  That is not a Jewish pickle.

• 12:53Speaker 00

  No.

• 12:53Mayim Bialik?

  It just became a Gentile pickle.

• 12:55Speaker 00

  It is also not a Midwestern pickle.

• 12:58Mayim Bialik?

  That's true.

• 12:59Speaker 00

  It is not for me.

• 13:00Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah.

• 13:00Jonathan Cohen?

  Speaking of city pickles, the bookstore, when it claims to be the best pickle bookstore in the city, what's the competition?

• 13:07Speaker 00

  Well, I think that's... I think that's the joke.

• 13:11Mayim Bialik?

  Yep.

• 13:11Speaker 00

  Although, maybe, maybe there's another one.

• 13:13Jonathan Cohen?

  I would like to believe that there are two or three other smaller mom and pop pickle stores that just can't compete.

• 13:20Speaker 00

  Do we feel like Wil Wheaton would want in on this? Because the four of us could order, we could start our own pickle bookstore.

• 13:27Mayim Bialik?

  He would love that.

• 13:28Speaker 00

  Yeah. We could do it right here in the valley. We're in the valley. Yeah, so that's my three, those are my three pickle facts.

• 13:35Mayim Bialik?

  Those are your pickle facts.

• 13:36Jonathan Cohen?

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• 13:38Mayim Bialik?

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• 13:46Jonathan Cohen?

  I'm counting down the minutes till Archie gets to climb up to tell us if he likes it.

• 13:50Mayim Bialik?

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• 14:33Mayim Bialik?

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• 14:58Jonathan Cohen?

  That's article.com/miam for $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more.

• 15:05Mayim Bialik?

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• 15:49Mayim Bialik?

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• 16:33Mayim Bialik?

  It's the best way to support our show. I have a funny pickle fact. I mean, if I had known...

• 16:38Jonathan Cohen?

  We should have. You should have brought your husband's pickle brand to promote.

• 16:41Speaker 00

  There will be some dropped off when it's time.

• 16:44Mayim Bialik?

  When it's time.

• 16:45Speaker 00

  Right now, the pickle garden is growing romaine. But when the cucumbers... No, when the cucumbers go back in, definitely.

• 16:53Mayim Bialik?

  Oh, I would love some.

• 16:54Speaker 00

  You're getting them.

• 16:55Mayim Bialik?

  In my family, there's a Heinz pickle pin that has been passed down. I'm the second generation. I don't know why my mother had a Heinz pickle pin, but she's a quirky dresser and like, kind of a funky New York lady. And it's been passed down. I have a Heinz pickle pin. It looks like a pickle, and it says Heinz. And it's like a plastic weird little pickle pin.

• 17:17Jonathan Cohen?

  This goes back to that question you asked me the other day.

• 17:20Mayim Bialik?

  You know what, Jonathan? Jonathan thinks I'm special because I have quirky things that I like.

• 17:25Speaker 00

  That does make her special.

• 17:27Mayim Bialik?

  I have a collection of feathers, and he thinks that's inappropriate.

• 17:29Jonathan Cohen?

  No, I don't think so.

• 17:31Speaker 00

  What do you use them for?

• 17:33Jonathan Cohen?

  What do you use your feathers for?

• 17:34Mayim Bialik?

  Do you have to use them for something? To make it not weird?

• 17:37Speaker 00

  No. Maybe.

• 17:39Mayim Bialik?

  Like if I were like-

• 17:40Speaker 00

  Wait, no.

• 17:40Mayim Bialik?

  If I were- If I were waving sage, you could use a feather for that. But that's not what I do that for.

• 17:47Speaker 00

  Do you use them at all, or do you just look at them?

• 17:49Mayim Bialik?

  I like them.

• 17:50Speaker 00

  That's nice.

• 17:50Mayim Bialik?

  It's a collection.

• 17:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 17:53Jonathan Cohen?

  She has a collection of animal bones?

• 17:55Speaker 00

  Oh, that's different, too. Okay, I mean, in a way, a feather is sort of like an outside animal bone.

• 18:00Mayim Bialik?

  That's right.

• 18:02Jonathan Cohen?

  I don't think there's anything wrong with it. We had a gentleman on who had a very unique brain. He can recite-

• 18:09Mayim Bialik?

  He's a professor.

• 18:10Jonathan Cohen?

  Fifty thousand digits of pi.

• 18:14Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, that guy.

• 18:15Mayim Bialik?

  That's kinda special, yeah.

• 18:16Speaker 00

  I think I've heard of this guy.

• 18:18Mayim Bialik?

  There's, there's many of them.

• 18:19Speaker 00

  Okay, then I've heard of guys.

• 18:20Mayim Bialik?

  You've heard of guys.

• 18:21Jonathan Cohen?

  He just has facts. He can pull any fact up. He has just an amazing memory, amazing brain. He's a magician, does magic tricks. He's a plethora of skills. And Mima and I were reflecting on the uniqueness of the conversation, and she turns to me over a meal, and she says, "You know, do you know anyone like that?" And I just kinda look at her and smile. And she was shocked.

• 18:50Speaker 00

  How many, how many guys-

• 18:51Mayim Bialik?

  I can't do any digits. 3.14. That's it.

• 18:55Speaker 00

  Dot.

• 18:55Mayim Bialik?

  Stop there.

• 18:56Jonathan Cohen?

  It's a different special.

• 18:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, there's different specialties. You still have a very special brain. But apparently-

• 19:04Mayim Bialik?

  This is an intervention.

• 19:06Speaker 00

  Well, it's time.

• 19:10Mayim Bialik?

  He was early.

• 19:12Speaker 00

  I do.

• 19:12Mayim Bialik?

  I told him to wait. I told him not to come up until I parked my car. And yet.

• 19:19Jonathan Cohen?

  We were so close to making a difference.

• 19:21Mayim Bialik?

  Ugh. Um, I do have a special brain, but you know what?

• 19:24Speaker 00

  You do have a very special brain.

• 19:26Mayim Bialik?

  This, um-

• 19:27Jonathan Cohen?

  You should sit here and read a book.

• 19:30Speaker 00

  Let's do it.

• 19:31Mayim Bialik?

  No!

• 19:32Speaker 00

  Stop it.

• 19:33Jonathan Cohen?

  We could time her. It's like this.

• 19:35Mayim Bialik?

  No.

• 19:35Jonathan Cohen?

  It's like, she sits down, and she's like, uh-huh.

• 19:37Mayim Bialik?

  I think he's exaggerating. No.

• 19:40Speaker 00

  Wait, what's-

• 19:41Jonathan Cohen?

  Okay, yes, I understand this. Oh, that took total sense based on the framework. Fifteen minutes later, she's done the book with dog ears, quotes, memorized passages, and she's like, "Jonathan, let me tell you all about it." I'm like-

• 19:55Jonathan Cohen?

  I joke, I just have to wave it in front of her.

• 19:57Mayim Bialik?

  He's exaggerating a little bit.

• 19:58Speaker 00

  I am so jealous.

• 19:59Jonathan Cohen?

  I mean, only slightly, though.

• 20:02Speaker 00

  Do you have a photographic memory?

• 20:04Mayim Bialik?

  So I have, um...

• 20:06Speaker 00

  You can stop. Do you, um, what's your retention like?

• 20:09Jonathan Cohen?

  Very high.

• 20:10Speaker 00

  Fuck.

• 20:11Mayim Bialik?

  Well, for cer- for certain things, you can. For certain things.

• 20:13Jonathan Cohen?

  Just not in the cold open.

• 20:14Mayim Bialik?

  For certain things.

• 20:15Speaker 00

  Are we still in the cold open? Okay, good.

• 20:20Speaker 00

  You have, so retention, okay, so I am a fast reader. I don't have a special brain. My retention is poo covered in pee. Like, I read so fast, I get so excited, and then it's just all gone.

• 20:34Mayim Bialik?

  What about scripts, though?

• 20:35Jonathan Cohen?

  But what if you read more slowly? Does it stay more, or is it the speed, or...

• 20:40Speaker 00

  I could maybe try. My husband is dyslexic, and he reads very slowly, and he remembers so well, everything.

• 20:50Jonathan Cohen?

  I'm the same way.

• 20:50Speaker 00

  Samezies, okay. So, and he remembers so much, his retention is so much better than mine, I think because he reads really slowly. And I'll just like race through a book, and I'm like, "Ha, that was so great, I'm sobbing, it was so good, on to the next." But it's like, it's like gone. And then he'll read the same book and be like, "Oh, my gosh, when the brothers were fighting in their bedroom." And I'm like, "No idea what you're talking about." He's currently reading The Bee Sting by Paul Murray, which I read like a year and a half ago, not to brag.

• 21:19Speaker 00

  But he's like, "Oh, the beginning with the sisters and the teenage girl." Not the, the teenage girl and her friend, and I'm like, "Ooh."

• 21:29Speaker 00

  That seems like a part I would have liked.

• 21:30Jonathan Cohen?

  I'm curious, I'm fascinated by this area because, like, do you remember the emotion that you felt around the book? So like, that's what sticks with you?

• 21:39Speaker 00

  Yes, the emotion sticks. I feel like I interrupted you.

• 21:41Jonathan Cohen?

  No.

• 21:42Speaker 00

  But I...

• 21:42Mayim Bialik?

  Well, I was thinking about, I was thinking about scripts because we have to memorize those and hold them for a distinct amount of time.

• 21:51Speaker 00

  Like, seven to 10 hours.

• 21:53Mayim Bialik?

  It's too much for you.

• 21:54Speaker 00

  Gone. Just gone.

• 21:56Mayim Bialik?

  Do you prep a script beforehand? Or are you like an on the day when they give you the sides?

• 22:02Speaker 00

  It depends on... Well, now at my advanced age, I must prepare in a way that I didn't... Oh, I used to be able to get away with not. Because of being a lady, I'm in hair and makeup for like about five hours in the morning. But I go and sit in hair and makeup for like one and a half to two hours. So that used to be plenty of time and I would just like learn my lines. Because you're really looking at like five to 10 pages a day and so much of it's stage direction. So it's like, really, when you really get down to it.

• 22:31Mayim Bialik?

  Right. And unless there's something like a monologue or something like that, it's dialogue. So people are always like, how do you memorize it? I'm like, I don't know, it's like a conversation.

• 22:39Speaker 00

  Because he's asking me like where his keys are. And I'm like, they're on the fucking table, dude. Like, that's an easy line to memorize. But also, I think, um... I think it's okay to say this, that when things are well-written, you memorize them like boom. And so, like, I think when things are not as well-written or they're a little clunky, it does, I do have to memorize. However, that being said, it's just getting to a point now, I feel like safer if I work on it ahead of time.

• 23:11Mayim Bialik?

  Can you talk a little bit about this? We're the same age and I've just noticed that...

• 23:17Speaker 00

  Lucky.

• 23:17Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah. I've just noticed that, um... Things that used to come easy to me.

• 23:23Speaker 00

  Uh huh.

• 23:24Mayim Bialik?

  Just all of a sudden...

• 23:25Speaker 00

  Don't.

• 23:26Mayim Bialik?

  Don't.

• 23:27Speaker 00

  Like being happy?

• 23:28Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 23:30Speaker 00

  It was so easy to be happy. And now... Yes, continue.

• 23:35Mayim Bialik?

  Um... So, you know, the process of the transition from not being in menopause to being in menopause.

• 23:45Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 23:46Mayim Bialik?

  Is called perimenopause.

• 23:47Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 23:47Mayim Bialik?

  And to me, this is one of those things that I wish someone would have told me a lot earlier. There's gonna be 10 years of your life that's just like kind of a crapshoot.

• 23:57Speaker 00

  I know.

• 23:58Mayim Bialik?

  Every organ system might just do something completely insane.

• 24:02Speaker 00

  Oh, it's great.

• 24:02Mayim Bialik?

  And you will hate yourself for everything happening on the daily. No one told me these 10 years were coming. So depending on where you are in it and also some people are on hormones, some people are not on hormones.

• 24:13Speaker 00

  Hormones.

• 24:14Mayim Bialik?

  So yeah, did you, have you noticed a difference? Cause we've had on.

• 24:17Speaker 00

  Huge difference. I know, I was listening to your Dr. Haver.

• 24:20Mayim Bialik?

  Oh, yeah.

• 24:21Speaker 00

  Episode, cause I'm obsessed with this stuff. Um, yes, hormones are kick ass. If you can take them, I highly recommend. And yes, it is like, uh, shitty that we go through this. That our medical, um, like the practitioners that we see, whether it's like gynecologists, OB GYNs, GPs, like that no one is educated in this. And I'm just, I'm not gonna like regurgitate everything she said, but, um, cause people should listen to the episode you had of her. Cause it's fucking awesome. But, uh, um, also it's crazy when I was listening to her on here and thinking that she's like, yeah, I just started like three years ago, like learning about this stuff. And I'm like, what?

• 25:02Speaker 00

  Um, anyway, uh, but yeah, I did feel like everything was crazy. I felt I had all these symptoms and I didn't know what they were. And, um, and one of them was like brain fog, not being able to be good at the same things I used to be good at.

• 25:21Mayim Bialik?

  And you just thought, I'm just getting old and it's over.

• 25:24Speaker 00

  I just thought I was like going through depression, actually. Like I thought that maybe I was like starting to like toe dip into mental illness. And, um, and thinking about like things I've heard my mom say and things I've witnessed her like experience and go through and everything. I was like, maybe that's in our family a little bit. She doesn't have that, but I don't know. Like sometimes she just seems really sad and then sometimes she's really happy. And I was like, huh, I don't know. I, so I thought all those things were happening because nobody talks about it.

• 25:58Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 25:58Speaker 00

  And when I would say like, I'm feeling really sad and my sweet GP who I love, and I've been seeing him forever. And he was like, well, maybe we could do like a low dose of Prozac. And I was like, ooh. Am I that sad? And then I'm like, I feel crazy, I say to my gynecologist. And she's like, well, let's get you back on the pill. And I'm like, oh, really? Like, I have to go back on that? So, that's how I felt. And then, and then a lot of it, I felt was manifesting in like my workplace. Because there was even just a level of confidence I felt like I lost. Like, even being in a conversation, like, at Video Village, and like, not remembering the word that I wanted to say, and feeling like really self-conscious about it. And then just like deciding not to engage in those conversations like anymore.

• 26:43Speaker 00

  Which changes my lifestyle. Because I'm usually pretty, like, I like to socialize at work. And I like to talk to people. And I like to make friends with the crew and all the people around. And so then if I'm like limiting that because I'm afraid of like, just forgetting the word for vacuum, like, then, you know, that sucks. And it made me feel sad.

• 27:04Mayim Bialik?

  What do you think happened? I'm, I'm sort of fascinated with the fact that like, this isn't a new thing. Like, this, this transition that women go through, this isn't a new thing. And, yeah, women didn't used to live till 90. But it's been a minute that we've been living through this. What do you think women's experience used to be?

• 27:25Mayim Bialik?

  Like, I'm just thinking of like, my grandmas.

• 27:29Speaker 00

  I, well, I think there, there is a statistic I will never remember, because I read too fast, about the, the amount of women who leave the workplace at this age.

• 27:42Mayim Bialik?

  Or get divorced.

• 27:43Jonathan Cohen?

  Or go on Prozac.

• 27:44Speaker 00

  Or, and the worst-case scenario, obviously, is the suicide rate for women between 45 and 55. And so, like, I think that's what they did. I think they quit their jobs. And some people, um...

• 27:58Mayim Bialik?

  Or they were just miserable at home.

• 27:59Speaker 00

  They were miserable at home, they got divorced, they quit their jobs.

• 28:04Speaker 00

  They, you know, worst-case scenario, um, I don't, but like, that's, that's not really, that's like a not-answer answer, because I don't know what they did. I think they just like suffered through it. I think they just suffered through it.

• 28:16Mayim Bialik?

  Right. And I was, like, we always talk about how like, our notion, I mean, I'm thinking about my mom's experience when she was my age, when that felt like she was 80, right? Like, when we're in our teens or 20s, right? And, uh, yeah, maybe she was like going through something. And instead, it just seemed like she was mad all the time.

• 28:33Speaker 00

  Yes, not to throw my mom under the bus, but yes, it seemed like she was like mad or going crazy. But I, but like you also can't, I don't think that you can separate this from the fact that we are, including, like, we are at our mother's age now, like, constantly being shown pictures of people all the time on social media and on computers. Now, our mothers went through this change without access to the fucking internet. So while that can be a problem in the sense that they're not getting like weird medical advice online, which can be good and bad, they're also not seeing pictures of women that are skinny and selling drugs to them and gummies that will make them have a flat belly

• 29:15Speaker 00

  if they eat three of them a day and like all this shit. So it's like, I think there was like, if you're in more of like an insulated community of women and you're all going through this and yes, no one's talking about it, but like, you're all kind of gaining 10 pounds and you're all getting tired and you're all getting crabby and you're all complaining about your husband and you're all complaining about your kids and you're all like confused and like, oh yeah, we're all just like feeling this way. But you're not being shown like another option and you're not like thinking like, well, it should be that or I should look like that or I should want that. So maybe they were actually happier because they weren't on social media, being bombarded with like, oh, I could be skinnier, I could be happier, I could look like I'm 30.

• 29:51Mayim Bialik?

  And there also, I mean, there always was, I remember, what was it, like the Pritikin diet, like Weight Watchers? I remember hearing those things when I was a kid.

• 29:56Speaker 00

  My mom was on all of them.

• 29:57Mayim Bialik?

  Right, and like the Jane Fonda workouts and all the, and it's funny because as a kid, I never, I just didn't grow up in a house where we talked about weight loss like that. So I just thought my mom did things because she liked them. But now I'm looking back and like, yeah, it probably was always pervasive in our culture, but you're right. Like, all I have to do is like literally open my phone to feel depressed.

• 30:19Speaker 00

  Like, if you want to feel like shit, you can do it in 10 seconds or less, like five seconds or less. Because, and that's something our parents didn't, our mothers didn't have to go through and our aunts and stuff. So they didn't have that, which we do, which is like, makes it, I think, a lot harder. And yes, there's like always like the benefits of it, meaning like the conversation has started. And now we can like be talking about it and we can like search for those. Like, questions and answers on our own, but still, it's like, hard.

• 30:47Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah, it also takes a little bit of catching up, because I remember when I first started seeing things on the internet, if you bring it to a doctor, a lot of doctors are like, "That's just stuff that you see on the internet."

• 30:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 30:59Mayim Bialik?

  But now, there's real doctors and real information, so it's also like, trying to empower women in particular to say, "You actually do know what's going on in your body." You're the best, you're the best record keeper of your body and your mood and all those things, not the guy that is supposed to tell you when you had your period last.

• 31:17Speaker 00

  It's, I sometimes feel bad for doctors, because for them, it's like a lose-lose, because they could just blame all of our symptoms on perimenopause, when we actually could have, like, cancer, because sometimes, like, you go to the doctor and you're like, "Well, I'm like, having a lot of weight loss," or "I'm having light sweats," or "I'm having this." Like, that could be, you know, like, all this, like, they could write it off as that, you know, or we just get told that, like, we're hysterical, we don't know. Yes, we are the best gauge of what's going on in our body, but, like, things are being overlooked and not looked at enough, like, when you think about what we go in with our symptoms.

• 31:51Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 31:52Jonathan Cohen?

  My MB Alex Breakdown is supported by Honeylove.

• 31:55Mayim Bialik?

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• 32:39Mayim Bialik?

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• 33:06Jonathan Cohen?

  Experience new standards and comfort and support with Honeylove.

• 33:11Mayim Bialik?

  Myambea Alex Breakdown is supported by AG1. Hey, November is a crazy time. It feels like you're sprinting to the finish line. Now more than ever, remembering your healthy habits can feel almost impossible. That's where AG1 earns its spot. Not when life is easy and you've got time for a whole routine, but right now, when everything's full and something's gotta give. One scoop, cold water, every morning before anything else. Jonathan and I love how AG1 fits into our routine. I like to put it on a little ice, drink it first thing, so it can jumpstart my brain in the morning. One scoop covers what a full stack of separate supplements would. 75+ ingredients, vitamins, minerals, adaptogens, pre- and probiotics, superfoods.

• 33:54Mayim Bialik?

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• 34:39Mayim Bialik?

  Starting my day with this easy, health-focused task reminds me to continue to make healthy choices the rest of the day. For a limited time, visit drinkag1.com/breakdown and get a free immune support bundle, including omega-3 fish oil and vitamin D3 plus K2 with your first subscription of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro. That's drinkag1.com/breakdown. And after checkout, be sure to let them know that Myambea Alex Breakdown sent you. In terms of the appearance stuff, you know, I think it's really interesting that you mentioned sort of the not feeling good about yourself can go hand in hand with this and like wanting to balance that out. Living in LA is a real challenge.

• 35:20Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 35:20Mayim Bialik?

  It's just like, it looks like an Instagram feed, you know, if you just go most places in Los Angeles. And I wonder, you know, you kind of once were interviewed and talked about that sort of, you know, as the best friend or as that sort of co-star role, you didn't feel as much, you know, kind of pressure.

• 35:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 35:40Mayim Bialik?

  But I think there definitely is a very pervasive notion of like what we're supposed to look like, what we're supposed to age like.

• 35:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 35:46Mayim Bialik?

  Can you talk about maybe some of your personal choices? We have, you know, we had Justine Bateman on who's just like, "Everything's gorgeous, every line, every scar." And I'm like, "Really?"

• 35:55Speaker 00

  Nope, not there yet.

• 35:57Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah, can you talk about it a little bit? Like, most people I know start doing filler in their twenties and...

• 36:02Speaker 00

  I'm trying to think of when I started doing filler. I might have been in my twenties.

• 36:05Mayim Bialik?

  Okay.

• 36:06Speaker 00

  Uh, I did all the things a couple times, um, but, uh, like, I think I do the average amount of things. And I think that my personal vanity has more to do with like my, my personality and my DNA than my job, because I don't think I need to look a certain way for the roles that I play, thank God. I find that I feel more comfortable when I'm playing characters that are not supposed to be beautiful, like when I'm playing like sort of more of the every man slash woman.

• 36:47Speaker 00

  When I play those like regular people is like where I feel the most free. And when I play someone who's supposed to be attractive, I do find that it like shatters my self-esteem. Like, it's so much harder for me because I feel like I'm like getting all these different looks from like the gaffer at work and the hair and makeup is in all the time and they're adjusting a million lights and it takes forever to set up. Like, well, we, you know, we need to really like, if you could like, I know it's weird, but if you can deliver your line that way, you know, like that kind of stuff, and then I start to feel weird about myself. But, um, I don't, but I, I don't know, I think it is easier to not be a movie star. I think there is a lot less pressure and I don't necessarily like...

• 37:32Speaker 00

  But I don't, but I do care a lot about how I look and I think that's just like Judy vanity.

• 37:39Mayim Bialik?

  Speaking of vanity, I, you and I were on The Big Bang Theory the same season.

• 37:45Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 37:46Mayim Bialik?

  I was in the season finale of season three and you had a hilarious episode also in season three.

• 37:52Speaker 00

  Sometimes I wonder if I've ever had another job.

• 37:56Mayim Bialik?

  Why?

• 37:57Speaker 00

  Because I get recognized for that. Non-stop.

• 38:02Mayim Bialik?

  Wow.

• 38:02Speaker 00

  Once a week.

• 38:04Mayim Bialik?

  Still.

• 38:04Speaker 00

  Still.

• 38:05Mayim Bialik?

  It's been a minute.

• 38:06Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 38:07Jonathan Cohen?

  And you've been in a lot of other things.

• 38:09Speaker 00

  So many things.

• 38:09Mayim Bialik?

  Like 200 things.

• 38:11Speaker 00

  So many things. And yet.

• 38:13Mayim Bialik?

  People love The Big Bang Theory. I mean, it was also, talk a little bit about your character because it was a very, very funny, very funny turn.

• 38:20Speaker 00

  I just think it was because I was.

• 38:22Mayim Bialik?

  You were also in your underwear, which sometimes happens.

• 38:24Speaker 00

  Yes. And I'm wondering if I had not been in my underwear, if I would have been recognized as much for that.

• 38:30Mayim Bialik?

  But you're not walking around in your underwear. It's your face that's recognizable.

• 38:33Speaker 00

  That's true. But I think it made a, made a, an impression.

• 38:39Mayim Bialik?

  Got it. Talk a little bit about the character, yeah.

• 38:41Speaker 00

  She was like a horny scientist, basically.

• 38:45Jonathan Cohen?

  Like they are.

• 38:45Speaker 00

  Yeah. Turns out. Um, I was gonna try to do that thing, but I also, I don't know. Okay. Um, I, I don't know you well enough to do that. Um, I, uh, I, yeah, that's what I remember of her, is that she was there for like a conference or something.

• 39:04Mayim Bialik?

  With Sheldon, right.

• 39:05Speaker 00

  Yes. And she wanted to have sex with Sheldon or anyone.

• 39:08Mayim Bialik?

  But Leonard ended up being the, yes.

• 39:11Speaker 00

  He was the taker. And I, like, had, like, fancy underpants on and came out.

• 39:18Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 39:18Speaker 00

  And I remember that we pre-shot that scene.

• 39:21Mayim Bialik?

  Oh.

• 39:23Speaker 00

  My memory, I should say.

• 39:24Mayim Bialik?

  You mean not in front of a live audience?

• 39:26Speaker 00

  Right. So then we had the live audience taping was on a Tuesday of that show? Was that a Tuesday night?

• 39:33Mayim Bialik?

  We were on Fridays by the time I got there, yeah.

• 39:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think maybe it was, anyway, but I just, I know that because I pre-shot my underpants scene, that I ate like so much Taco Bell that night because I knew I didn't have to be in my underpants the next day.

• 39:47Mayim Bialik?

  Does it work like that?

• 39:48Speaker 00

  No, but in my mind, it does. A lot of sodium in that food.

• 39:53Mayim Bialik?

  Right, so I was actually on Big Bang Theory and we would go to lots of award shows and things, which was very exciting. And I had no idea, because the last time I had been on television, A, I was a teenager, and B, it was the 90s, and that wasn't a thing.

• 40:08Speaker 00

  So different, no.

• 40:09Mayim Bialik?

  So I learned on, during my time on Big Bang Theory, I learned that there are certain foods many women don't eat for like the week before an award show.

• 40:18Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 40:19Mayim Bialik?

  What are these secrets?

• 40:20Speaker 00

  Just sodium.

• 40:21Mayim Bialik?

  Sodium, because you get bloated.

• 40:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, because you retain water. Yeah, like, don't, like, no soy sauce is a big one. I learned on a pilot I shot in Vancouver, that I was up in Vancouver shooting this pilot, this was like 25 years ago or something, and my, my eye, like, I was so puffy every single day, and I thought I was eating so healthy because every night I would go home and have sushi, because there was like really good sushi in Vancouver, and I was having sushi every night, and like I would go to work the next morning and I was puffy, puffy, puffy, and my makeup artist was like, "Okay, okay, okay, let's just break this down, like, what are you eating?" And I was like, "Uh, this," and she's like, "Okay," and "that, okay," and "sushi, okay, do you put in soy sauce?" And I'm like, "Yeah." And so then she's like, "Okay, stop."

• 41:06Speaker 00

  So to this day, like, I don't really eat a lot of sushi because I don't like to eat animals if I don't have to, but, um, the soy sauce thing. But there's like soy sauce, I think, well, I don't know if there's extra secret actress food, but for me, it's anything that's like wa, like carbs and water retention.

• 41:23Mayim Bialik?

  So what?

• 41:24Speaker 00

  Carbs and salt.

• 41:25Mayim Bialik?

  What do carbs do?

• 41:27Speaker 00

  Well, they just, I don't know. They, I guess, you know, people go on these crazy no carb diets.

• 41:32Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 41:33Speaker 00

  Insane people, they don't eat carbs. So like, where are you getting your fiber? Anyway, um, so you have like no carbs and I think it's like a bloat thing.

• 41:41Mayim Bialik?

  Okay.

• 41:42Speaker 00

  It's just all about bloating. I think you're really only gonna like lose about five pounds and it's probably just gonna be water.

• 41:47Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 41:48Speaker 00

  But for that scene or that night.

• 41:50Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 41:50Speaker 00

  That red carpet.

• 41:51Mayim Bialik?

  That dress, whatever, if you want.

• 41:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:53Mayim Bialik?

  Your riddle's showing.

• 41:55Speaker 00

  Yeah, I guess. And that seemed more important in my earlier years than now.

• 42:00Mayim Bialik?

  But it's interesting, like vanity aside, there's many foods that we eat that cannot be good for us or for our skin.

• 42:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 42:10Mayim Bialik?

  So I'm, and this is totally not interesting at all, but I'm gonna talk about it anyway.

• 42:14Speaker 00

  He was riveted over the perimetoblast.

• 42:16Mayim Bialik?

  I'm one of these people who always had tiny bumps on my upper arms.

• 42:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 42:21Mayim Bialik?

  Teeny tiny bumps. Not pimples, they're like bumps, there's some.

• 42:24Speaker 00

  There's a name for it.

• 42:25Mayim Bialik?

  There's a name, it's a form of eczema. But when I cut out soy and gluten, they went away. And this was my whole life and every dermatologist is like, let's throw cortisone on it. Cause they love to put cortisone on everything. Or you could do this, or you could do this treatment or constantly moisturize, constantly exfoliate, like always. And I was like, that's so interesting that that's what it was. And then I'm thinking, what, where else was it working in my body that maybe my body didn't like?

• 42:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, because you have like.

• 42:54Mayim Bialik?

  You don't have to answer that, I'm just saying.

• 42:55Speaker 00

  Well, I don't know about your body, but definitely like inflammatory foods. Like those were two inflammatory foods for you that you probably didn't know. And you can like go on an anti-inflammatory food diet and like just get everything back to like ground zero and then like add in, I mean, I'm not telling you everything you don't already know, but like.

• 43:14Mayim Bialik?

  Do you eat nightshades?

• 43:15Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 43:16Mayim Bialik?

  Oh, I didn't know.

• 43:17Speaker 00

  Tomatoes, like we're not supposed to eat tomatoes.

• 43:20Mayim Bialik?

  Eggplant?

• 43:21Speaker 00

  I just, I'm not like an eggplant fanatic, but I would. Like to prove a point, I would.

• 43:26Jonathan Cohen?

  Tomatoes are hard though, like pizza sauce and.

• 43:29Speaker 00

  I know.

• 43:29Jonathan Cohen?

  Any type of sauce and.

• 43:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, and we eat a lot of sauce.

• 43:34Mayim Bialik?

  That's what makes everything taste good.

• 43:35Speaker 00

  Really, I know. I don't have a gluten allergy, but I had a witch doctor tell me once that I have antibodies for it. But then, so she's like, someone, something in your body is reacting to gluten, just know that. And I was like, okay. And then a lot of my family has celiac disease. And so they were like, if you, if you are not allergic to gluten, you need to keep eating gluten because.

• 44:02Mayim Bialik?

  You will then get allergic to gluten.

• 44:03Speaker 00

  You will become allergic to gluten and your life will get very difficult, especially when you think about like how much we travel for work. And if I don't eat meat, then it's like, like try not eating gluten and meat in Ohio when I visit my family.

• 44:16Jonathan Cohen?

  It's very difficult. Especially on the road.

• 44:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, right. On the road is really difficult. So I am like, even in times where maybe I do wanna like, chill out the inflammatory things in my body, like I will still have like a piece of toast. Isn't this fascinating?

• 44:32Mayim Bialik?

  It's fascinating for me.

• 44:33Speaker 00

  I do like it though.

• 44:34Jonathan Cohen?

  I mean, I'm curious, being in the industry and working the number of jobs you've worked, how have you not, or maybe you have, experienced like the more crazy side of Hollywood health hacks?

• 44:49Speaker 00

  Oh. I mean, I've seen them all, but I'm not engaging in them.

• 44:57Jonathan Cohen?

  You haven't been recruited?

• 45:00Jonathan Cohen?

  Or what are some of the crazier ones that you've maybe seen?

• 45:03Speaker 00

  It's not crazy, but I did learn a little bit more on that like before an event or before a big scene. Like someone told me like not to drink any water, like if you have to be in a bathing suit or like, don't drink any water that day. And I'm like, what?

• 45:18Speaker 00

  That seems crazy to me. It works unfortunately.

• 45:21Jonathan Cohen?

  Do you get very thirsty?

• 45:23Speaker 00

  Yeah. Oh, good. Again, I don't really do those roles anymore.

• 45:29Speaker 00

  But that, I don't know. I mean, like, I mean, we could talk about the obvious thing that everyone's doing right now.

• 45:37Mayim Bialik?

  We could.

• 45:38Speaker 00

  But the O, I'm really...

• 45:40Mayim Bialik?

  What do they call it if people don't want to call it by its name? GLP, what is it?

• 45:43Speaker 00

  GLP-1.

• 45:44Mayim Bialik?

  GLP-1.

• 45:45Speaker 00

  I am working on myself to let go of judgment about people's decisions about that medication. I talk a lot about it to a woman once a week for one hour that I pay money to. And I'm like, if I could have you tally the amount of money I've spent just talking about my feelings about this.

• 46:12Jonathan Cohen?

  I'm curious, what's sort of the crux of it? Is it that...

• 46:16Mayim Bialik?

  Oh, I know, because I'm in your head.

• 46:19Jonathan Cohen?

  You tell her what...

• 46:19Speaker 00

  No, no, it's fine. Tell me what I...

• 46:21Mayim Bialik?

  I'll pay my own therapist to talk about it.

• 46:23Speaker 00

  Is it, what is it? What do you think? I like, I want to hear what...

• 46:27Mayim Bialik?

  I mean, look, I'm, I'm one of these kind of like, you know, old school hardcore, like, we're, we as women, I think in particular women in the industry, like, we're told to embrace things because it's kind of convenient for everyone's pleasure for us to say we're on board with something, whether that's sexual harassment, whether it's being asked to be gratuitously naked, whether it's being asked to...

• 46:58Speaker 00

  It's to play nice. We're just, we're told to play nice, like, in every way.

• 47:03Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah, so to me, I do, I feel, and also I don't, I, I also would like to release judgment, meaning everybody gets to do their thing.

• 47:11Speaker 00

  I know.

• 47:11Mayim Bialik?

  But to me, it, it does make it harder, not just for me, but as a society, for there to be a normal spectrum of the human experience when it is becoming so mainstream to manufacture.

• 47:26Mayim Bialik?

  You know, a really unnatural expectation, especially for women. Did I say it?

• 47:32Speaker 00

  No, agreed. And I also think like furthermore, it is another way to like separate people. And they're, this is the brain foggy part where I'm just gonna say words.

• 47:44Mayim Bialik?

  Vacuum.

• 47:44Speaker 00

  Like, vacuum, flashlight. Like, it's another way to separate like communities economically from each other, which is something that like worries me still. And so now you're seeing like yet another like class of people able to achieve this sort of like standard of beauty that we have been trying to tell ourself doesn't exist. It is furthering, potentially furthering like this patriarchal society of like women need to look young and be skinny in order to be accepted and beautiful. And, and like that scares me, you know?

• 48:29Speaker 00

  But at the same time, as far as like the releasing judgment is concerned, it's like, I want people to fucking be happy and feel good about themselves. And however you can do it, like, that's the, that's the thing I want. But I also noticed that until this came, until this drug became part of like the mainstream, it's like we were working so hard on accepting bodies of all shapes and sizes and ages. And you go to a place that I guess we can't go to anymore called Target that has, you know, mannequins that are of all shapes and sizes. Like, that was not the case when I was a kid.

• 49:06Mayim Bialik?

  They looked like real people.

• 49:06Speaker 00

  Yes, there's real people in the clothes. And I love that. And even in some of the websites that I visit and shop on, like have models of different sizes of like high, like expensive clothes, like have models of all different shapes and sizes now, wearing those clothes on the website, which I'm like, thank you. But like- But also, I mean, I guess if we can feel better about our, it's not like, I guess to me, it just took like a systemic issue that we were working on, just like, we don't have to work on that anymore, which maybe is a good thing, because maybe we need to work on like being more loving and stuff. Obviously, I do. But like, that we then can like focus our energies

• 49:50Speaker 00

  elsewhere. But it is kind of a bummer to think that like, in this place where we live, called Los Angeles, and probably in New York, and like a few other cities in the country, people can afford this drug, and they can look a certain way because they can afford it. But yet, like, it is still not widely available to people who actually need it, and to people like, who just want it, like we do, but we can buy it. And that bums me out, for all those reasons.

• 50:20Jonathan Cohen?

  I think it's extremely important, and the systemic issue that we were working on is like, it's a massive hit, or setback to that issue.

• 50:30Mayim Bialik?

  It's like, you're perfect the way you are, but you'd be more perfect if you just took this drug.

• 50:33Speaker 00

  But then like, also, just like, take this and you'll be skinny, because skinny's better, no matter what. And by the way, I feel that way, because I was brought up to feel that way. Because we did talk about weight in my house. I'm an only child, and my mother was never not on a diet. She was never not trying to lose weight. She was never not like, complaining about her weight, and talking about how fat she felt. And it was just like, a constant, like, that is my, that's in my cells of my body. So, like, I can look at myself in the mirror, and I have like, two very different feelings about what I see in it. Like, the like, you are fat and old, and the like, you look fucking awesome. Like, you look great. And so, maybe you have to buy a bigger size of jeans, but like, that is okay.

• 51:15Jonathan Cohen?

  If you take away the people who actually need these drugs, the real brainfuck here is that the people who are using it who don't really need it. Are actually getting fatter, meaning they are losing muscle mass. And the percentage of their body that is fat.

• 51:33Mayim Bialik?

  I'm rolling my eyes. People don't care. They just want to be skinny.

• 51:36Jonathan Cohen?

  Yeah, but they're.

• 51:38Mayim Bialik?

  They'd rather be dead than not be skinny.

• 51:41Jonathan Cohen?

  But that's what's happening. They're losing muscle, so the percentage of their body that is fat versus muscle is actually increasing the percentage of fat. So they're skinny fat.

• 51:51Speaker 00

  The great irony. I know. And also.

• 51:53Mayim Bialik?

  I roll my eyes at it, though. I do.

• 51:56Speaker 00

  I, I, I think I also have a healthy dose of jealousy that I wish I could just be like, whatever, I'm just gonna take it. And then I can lose the 10 pounds and like, feel the way I want to feel about myself. Like, I am jealous of that mindset. One thing also not to be overlooked for women is osteoporosis. And because women are now achieving the body size that they want without having to lift heavy weights to do it. And especially going back to the premenopause, menopause conversation and how, how likely we are as women to get osteoporosis when our bone density shrinks. And then like, when you're, you know, not lifting weights and you're not exercising, your bone density decreases, in which case you have osteoporosis. And you break your hip when you trip on the rug because your dog moved it when she was running to get her treat.

• 52:39Jonathan Cohen?

  So when you think, oh, I wish I could have that mindset to just take them, know that you're gonna be able to get up out of your chair. When you're 80, in a way that these other people will not be able to.

• 52:50Speaker 00

  Wait, do you guys, do you want to hear something a doctor told someone once? Just kidding. Um, my mother-in-law, who I'm obsessed with, whose name is also Judy, um, she had to have hip replacement surgery. But her hip replacing doctor told her, this, I'm sure you can look up.

• 53:10Mayim Bialik?

  The word surgeon that you were just looking for?

• 53:11Speaker 00

  Surgeon. He, her surgeon. He, thank you. Flashlight. Thank you. He said that most elderly people who break their hip, they fall and break their hips. That's true. But what I'm about to tell you might potentially blow your mind. You fall down and you break your hip, right?

• 53:27Jonathan Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 53:27Speaker 00

  No. This one man, this one surgeon said that most older people break their hip. And they fall when their hip spontaneously breaks. And then you're like, oh my God, I fell down and broke my hip. But actually, your hip breaks, you fall down, and this whole, now, this is one doctor, but I liked him. He has twins, can you imagine? Anyway, um, I know this because my mother-in-law likes to see the pictures. No, but, um, the, uh, yeah, like, that was something that I was like, holy buckets. That changes even the way I think about like-

• 54:02Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 54:02Speaker 00

  Bone density, osteoporosis-

• 54:04Mayim Bialik?

  You could just be standing in place.

• 54:06Speaker 00

  You like literally could just like be reaching for your coffee and break your hip, and then you stand up and fall down, and you're like, oh my god, you fell and broke your hip. You hear it all the time.

• 54:13Jonathan Cohen?

  Spontaneous hip-

• 54:14Speaker 00

  Hip breaking.

• 54:15Jonathan Cohen?

  Combustion, basically.

• 54:16Mayim Bialik?

  Jonathan's had one hip replacement already.

• 54:18Jonathan Cohen?

  It did not combust.

• 54:19Speaker 00

  Can we?

• 54:21Jonathan Cohen?

  You want to see the scar? No, off camera.

• 54:23Speaker 00

  I feel like I'm headed for it. I'm having a lot of pain.

• 54:27Mayim Bialik?

  Oh.

• 54:28Speaker 00

  Where did the pain start?

• 54:30Mayim Bialik?

  When he was in his twenties.

• 54:32Speaker 00

  Ew.

• 54:32Jonathan Cohen?

  Um, like, where physically did it start?

• 54:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 54:35Jonathan Cohen?

  I mean, mine was a long time coming, it was a congenital issue.

• 54:38Speaker 00

  I'm sorry.

• 54:39Jonathan Cohen?

  Um, and I had no concept of it for a really long time, so I don't know that it's as easy to articulate. Like, I was playing competitive basketball and sort of at the highest level of play, when I was like really pushing myself, like, the next day I'd be like, oh, this is really sore. Like, I feel like I, you know, pulled something.

• 54:55Speaker 00

  Like, in your hip bone?

• 54:57Jonathan Cohen?

  In the socket, really, is where I started to feel it.

• 55:00Mayim Bialik?

  Is yours not in the socket?

• 55:01Speaker 00

  I don't know what's going on down here. There's a whole situation.

• 55:04Mayim Bialik?

  Just that side?

• 55:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 55:06Mayim Bialik?

  Interesting.

• 55:06Jonathan Cohen?

  I will say that I was terrified of getting more information, and when I, I kind of got to the point where I called mine one day. I'm like, I think I need a new hip. She's like, you have no clue, you're way ahead of this. You don't know it.

• 55:21Mayim Bialik?

  I didn't know you had asked the universe, and the universe told you you need a new hip. I didn't know.

• 55:25Jonathan Cohen?

  It just occurred to me at one point, I'm like, I think I need a new, and, because I was 41 at the time-

• 55:29Mayim Bialik?

  He can be a little hyperbolic. So, when he was like, I have to be hip replacement, I was like, let's-

• 55:34Speaker 00

  No, I've definitely-

• 55:34Mayim Bialik?

  Slow down.

• 55:35Speaker 00

  I'm covered in tumors only on the left side, in this region, and my husband's like, really? That's where we're going with this?

• 55:41Speaker 00

  You've been wearing high heels at work for weeks, but it's definitely tumors. I'm like, no, it's definitely tumors.

• 55:47Jonathan Cohen?

  It's a good thing you can heal those quick.

• 55:49Speaker 00

  It's terrible.

• 55:51Speaker 00

  But even last night in bed, I was like, maybe I should just go and get the hip replacement.

• 55:56Jonathan Cohen?

  No imaging, no imaging.

• 55:58Speaker 00

  No imaging, no doctor visits.

• 56:01Mayim Bialik?

  Just do it.

• 56:02Jonathan Cohen?

  Just the drive through.

• 56:03Speaker 00

  And then I woke up and like, my husband's like, morning honey. And I'm like, can you just get an MRI? Like, do I have to have a doctor ask for it? Or can I just go to the place in Koreatown where I get my MRIs? And be like, yo, can we do my hip today?

• 56:15Mayim Bialik?

  You do need a doctor to order that.

• 56:17Speaker 00

  Why?

• 56:17Mayim Bialik?

  Because it's a prescription.

• 56:18Jonathan Cohen?

  It's pretty easy to get. And I will say that the best thing I did was get that information. And then the turnaround time to pop a new hip in there was pretty quick. And it was pretty, it was like significantly life-changing.

• 56:31Speaker 00

  I want this to go away.

• 56:33Mayim Bialik?

  Then it was a year of hell, but not your problem.

• 56:34Speaker 00

  Right.

• 56:35Jonathan Cohen?

  The rehab was not so easy, but if you have to get a joint replaced.

• 56:39Mayim Bialik?

  He doesn't take narcotics. I think if he had taken the narcotics, it would have been easier, but then maybe harder.

• 56:44Speaker 00

  Yeah. I don't know if I would take narcotics either.

• 56:46Jonathan Cohen?

  I did like half a dose the first day and was like, this is not for me.

• 56:51Mayim Bialik?

  It was not for you or me.

• 56:53Jonathan Cohen?

  But if you have to, if you have to get a joint replaced, that's the best joint to get.

• 56:58Speaker 00

  There's a gun to your head. You have to replace one joint now. I know if this happens to me tonight when I'm parking my car in the dark, I'm gonna be like, hip! Hip!

• 57:11Mayim Bialik?

  Oh my God. Okay, sorry.

• 57:13Speaker 00

  Thank you for that.

• 57:14Mayim Bialik?

  I was just laughing. Um, let's talk about another thing that changes when you get older that you've spoken about.

• 57:23Mayim Bialik?

  I want to talk about alcohol, something I used to enjoy very much.

• 57:27Speaker 00

  Me too!

• 57:28Mayim Bialik?

  I used to love it. I used to love it. And then.

• 57:34Jonathan Cohen?

  Your palms started getting sweaty.

• 57:35Mayim Bialik?

  My palms started getting itchy from drinking wine.

• 57:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 57:40Mayim Bialik?

  Like, I grew, I grew a physical allergy.

• 57:43Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 57:44Mayim Bialik?

  And it was right around COVID time. Maybe there was an increased consumption in the years leading up to and including. I don't know. But it fucks up your sleep. I'm certain of that. It fucks up your sleep. And it's at a certain age. That's at a certain age, though. I can't remember when it was for me. I kept drinking well after that. But anyway.

• 58:05Speaker 00

  We all do.

• 58:07Mayim Bialik?

  When my palms started itching, which I believe was a hex that this witch doctor put on me. Then it just wasn't worth it. And people started being like, it's the sulfate, is the sulfate a thing?

• 58:19Speaker 00

  You just need all natural wine.

• 58:21Mayim Bialik?

  And I'm like, you know what? What I like is not feeling the way I'm feeling.

• 58:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 58:26Mayim Bialik?

  I don't like researching. I don't like trying, testing, go in a fancy place. I like Manischewitz with an ice cube. That's what I.

• 58:35Speaker 00

  Really?

• 58:36Jonathan Cohen?

  She's fancy.

• 58:37Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 58:38Mayim Bialik?

  I always put ice. White wine, red wine, it needs an ice cube. Um, but then one day we stopped trying. And I would also like, when I was thinking back, like, a lot of times, even when I was in my twenties and not even, I didn't even really, I was never really a super heavy drinker at that time. But when I would drink like a mixed drink, like a vodka, whatever, I would feel an ache go through my body. Like a.

• 59:03Jonathan Cohen?

  The demons.

• 59:04Mayim Bialik?

  It was, and what I've been told is like, that's a toxin.

• 59:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 59:09Mayim Bialik?

  Your body's seeing that's a toxin. And it would kind of pass and I would have another drink and like, whatever. And it was great. But, um, what, what was your journey? Because at this point, I'm just like, it's just fucking not worth it. I can't deal with it and it's not necessary to go down this road. What's your, what was your sort of experience?

• 59:28Speaker 00

  Different than you. Um, like, well, all the, I don't have, I, I, I don't think I have an allergy to alcohol. It sounds like you might actually have an allergy to alcohol, but like.

• 59:41Mayim Bialik?

  Thank you, Dr. Greer.

• 59:41Speaker 00

  Um, yeah. People need to listen to me. Um, but, uh, I think that, well, my experience was that I love drinking alcohol and I love drinking loads of alcohol. And I love the feeling of like, between like getting, like, starting to drink and like being buzzed. Like, I really like, I like that. And I liked, like, my whole social life, like, most people's social life.

• 1:00:09Mayim Bialik?

  Drinking.

• 1:00:09Speaker 00

  Is drinking.

• 1:00:10Mayim Bialik?

  Part of me has this theory that if you take away alcohol, people won't have friends. They won't have relationships. Like, it's why we kind of can have social lubricant as part of our interaction.

• 1:00:21Speaker 00

  So for me, I, pandemic. Like, I was always like a very, I was always like a super like heightened social drinker. So I was never one to necessarily like have drinks at home by myself. Like, if I was home alone one night, like, I wouldn't like, I'm gonna have wine or I'm gonna make myself a cocktail.

• 1:00:41Mayim Bialik?

  The best time to drink juice. No one can judge.

• 1:00:43Speaker 00

  I thought if I didn't drink by myself, then it was okay.

• 1:00:46Mayim Bialik?

  Got it, okay.

• 1:00:47Speaker 00

  It's like, well, it's not like I'm drinking at home.

• 1:00:48Mayim Bialik?

  So were you like drunk Judy at events?

• 1:00:51Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:00:53Mayim Bialik?

  I didn't know this about you.

• 1:00:56Speaker 00

  Some people do. No, I would drink at events and also like social anxiety, just like a lot of things. And then, of course, now we cut to the pandemic, right? When I think that was like, you know, that first, like 2020 was just like, how early can we start?

• 1:01:15Speaker 00

  We didn't have kids at home, like my stepkids had already moved out. So, so like it was just the two of us and my husband was still working at the, I mean, he's still working, but he was actually working during the pandemic. And so when he would finish his work day, which was earlier because of the pandemic, like we would start drinking. And so it was just like having like Zoom drinks with people, like every single night was like Zoom drinks with different people. And I don't know, it just kind of like really amped up in a way that like, kind of like, what am I doing? And all these other, like the, the sleepless nights, like the panic, like the dread, like the anxiety, like all that stuff. And so then when it was 2021 and I'm like, we're gonna do Dry January.

• 1:01:59Speaker 00

  And then I was like, actually, I'm feeling really good. I'm gonna keep not drinking. And so then I got a couple of jobs, like my first jobs into the pandemic. And I was like, I think I'm just gonna like, I think I'm just gonna like not drink through these jobs. And then we had a planned trip with friends to Napa and we've gone to Napa like.

• 1:02:15Mayim Bialik?

  That's where all the wine is.

• 1:02:16Speaker 00

  Turns out. Anyway, we were going to Napa with friends and I was like, well, I'm just gonna not drink till Napa and it'll be a great reset for me. Like just kind of like cool it.

• 1:02:25Mayim Bialik?

  Were you already feeling like there was something going on that needed a little bit of regulation? Or were you still kind of coasting on the like, oh, I just won't drink?

• 1:02:34Speaker 00

  Um, I think probably I was thinking like, I don't know if this is really like great for me personally. I don't like this feeling. Like I, I think I was already kind of like, huh. I think like alcohol for me was helpful with social anxiety and it just kind of never like got regulated into like a thing I could take or leave. And it felt like a great reward because I work so hard and I work such long hours.

• 1:03:05Mayim Bialik?

  I just want to have a good time.

• 1:03:07Speaker 00

  I just like deserve this. Like it's the weekend or I'm on location and I don't know people and like that's like the hotel bar. Like we're all going to go out for drinks after work and it was like, it's just really like, well, I shouldn't even say it's like baked into what we do because it's in every, it's just so pervasive. So anyway, we, I get into 2021 and I was like, okay, well, I'm going to drink on my Napa trip with my friends. And then I'll have this like great reset and like I'll like calm down and it had been like almost six months since I had a drink. So I did, I went to Napa and did all the things that we normally do. And like everything was fine and everything was fine for like a really long time. And then it was just like all of a sudden, it was just like kind of coming back. And I was just finding like more and more like that it was getting back to the way it was.

• 1:03:53Speaker 00

  And so I decided that I listen, this is a book that's referenced a lot. You've heard of quitlit? Have you heard of this term?

• 1:04:02Mayim Bialik?

  No.

• 1:04:03Speaker 00

  So it's a term that is used to describe books about like being sober or quitting.

• 1:04:11Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 1:04:11Speaker 00

  I've only just started to say I'm sober and not because I wasn't sober, but because it just stops the fucking conversation when I don't really want to talk about why I don't drink with strangers. And if you say you're sober, then they'll be like, oh, you know, it's like, I could be here, I could be in a ditch. Like I'm sober, but like, but I think that was, it's just like, I'm just. Anyway, so Quitlet is like these books about quitting drinking, quitting drugs, like quitting addictions. And so they've like kind of called it Quitlet. Someone decided that's what it's called. Anyway, there's a famous one. It's fun, right? Rhymes. So there's a famous one called This Naked Mind. Annie Grace, she, I listened to this book

• 1:04:51Speaker 00

  and there was something in it that, like this one little thing she said stuck out to me, which was like, it's so much easier to just decide not to drink than to make all these rules for yourselves around like, okay, I'm gonna have like one cocktail, one glass of wine, and that's it. Like to go into a social event and have all of these like rules that you have to like stick to. It's like, why? Like, why not just? And this is all sort of like addiction and sobriety and all those words aside. Like that, I was like, I am making rules for myself. I am saying like, I'll have a martini

• 1:05:33Speaker 00

  and then I'll switch to white wine and then that's it. I'll have only white wine tonight. I will only drink one IPA and then I'll switch to like- Like I was spending so much energy on like trying to manage something that was just easier to be like, I don't drink. Not to mention, can I tell you how much money we have saved on Ubers? Like, people are like, oh my god, you must like not spend any money drinking. I'm like, no dude, I don't spend any money on Ubers anymore. Like that.

• 1:05:59Mayim Bialik?

  You know, they say if you want to figure out why you're doing something, stop doing it. What did you, what did you notice? Because, you know, for me, once I stopped drinking-

• 1:06:08Speaker 00

  How long have you not-

• 1:06:10Mayim Bialik?

  I mean, it's been years. It's been years. Almost the whole time we've been doing this podcast, I'd say. After my divorce, I went through a pretty strong period. Like a, you know, a strong period.

• 1:06:23Speaker 00

  You earned that period.

• 1:06:25Mayim Bialik?

  No, but, but I guess that sort of would be my question for you, meaning like, I, I just don't enjoy social things the same way. I just don't, haven't really figured that out. You know what I mean? So I'm curious, like, what did you learn kind of about yourself when you stopped doing the thing that was that, you know, liquid courage?

• 1:06:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:06:49Speaker 00

  I don't, I mean, I'm really learning so much still. I don't know, my therapist who I'm obsessed with is always just saying like, we're just gathering information, aren't we? We're just gathering information. I learned, uh, well, I like myself sober. Like, I like, I, I, I, I like how I feel. Um, I even like the times where I have low self-esteem. Like, I like it because I am, it's because the way I feel without alcohol or drugs

• 1:07:27Speaker 00

  at a low self-esteem moment is so much better than how I feel hung over the next day, like, like spiraling about like what I tried to do to overcome that low self-esteem moment. So it's like, learning to sort of like sit in that dis-ease, that unease is like something I'm terrible at, but like, it's a better feeling than that other feeling.

• 1:07:51Mayim Bialik?

  That's really interesting.

• 1:07:52Speaker 00

  Like, I don't, I still like the social events. I just don't like them for as long. Like, I have a hard out, like, I'm like, I can get into like everyone's like second round of drinks and then I'm like, I'm not gonna go.

• 1:08:11Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:12Speaker 00

  Um, but I also think like it's changed like how and who I want to spend my time with too. I mean, I guess it is like affecting social stuff, but like that is interesting to me. Like, oh, like, how, like who I want to be around, like whether they're drinking or not.

• 1:08:32Mayim Bialik?

  Does your husband still drink?

• 1:08:34Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:08:34Mayim Bialik?

  Got it. You still want to be around him?

• 1:08:36Speaker 00

  I do. I do. In fact, sometimes I feel guilty, so I'm like, you need to order another drink so the waiter is like not mad, but like, um, like, probably.

• 1:08:45Jonathan Cohen?

  No, that's a real thing though, like when you say, oh, we're not drinking, the waiter's just like, looks at you like, oh.

• 1:08:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, which is why like every non-alcoholic cocktail is now also fifteen dollars. So I'm like. Um, I, yeah, he still drinks and that, thank God, that is fine. That is fine. And he is like, whatever you need, babe, like, whatever you want to do.

• 1:09:10Mayim Bialik?

  It's really interesting.

• 1:09:11Speaker 00

  He is very supportive of that decision, thankfully. I think in the beginning, a lot of our, like, sort of circle of party friends were sort of like side whispering like, huh, what is she gonna do this for? Like, is this, is this for, okay, I mean, we're fine, whatever, but like, is it?

• 1:09:29Mayim Bialik?

  She's still fun, I promise.

• 1:09:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm sorry. Um, and, and there was a, a trip with some friends that was happening and like, we were invited to go on it and I, I was still sort of like, I think I'm just doing this. And I, like, like went, like, on the side to the woman who was planning it and I was like, look, I am like, not planning on drinking on this trip and I don't wanna like, take up the space if you'd rather like invite somebody else, like, please. It like, will not hurt my feelings and I will still feel so loved by you, but like, I don't wanna be there. If you'd rather just have it be like a more of a party thing, like, oh my God, no. Um, anyway, I was sort of secretly hoping that it would inspire some people to drink less.

• 1:10:14Mayim Bialik?

  Oh.

• 1:10:14Speaker 00

  Because I am codependent and it has not, so, that's okay.

• 1:10:21Jonathan Cohen?

  We should definitely circle back to codependency.

• 1:10:24Speaker 00

  Please!

• 1:10:26Jonathan Cohen?

  I really like how you describe the feeling of being okay, feeling like anxious and insecure. And how that's actually better than the recovery from a hangover. And like, I kinda see it like, oh, we have a feeling of disease, so we attack it or, you know, drown it in alcohol and that like swings our emotions. So we're super extroverted and we're making all these connections, but then that goes away and we're left with a deeper drop. So it's almost like taking away the alcohol just kind of keeps us just more even, more level with ourselves. Cause we have to return back to ourselves anyway.

• 1:11:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, like, that's the one thing that's not going anywhere, you know, like, that. Yes, it's always like gonna be me, you know, like no matter where you go, there you are. Like, it's just that, like, what's the worst? What's the best worst feeling? Like, the least?

• 1:11:19Mayim Bialik?

  Hmm.

• 1:11:20Speaker 00

  I don't know.

• 1:11:20Jonathan Cohen?

  The least bad.

• 1:11:21Speaker 00

  The best joint to have replaced. Like, better? Better to just be regular, like, sad and blue than hangover sad and blue?

• 1:11:32Mayim Bialik?

  That's funny. Let's talk a little bit about codependency. You know, it's such a, you know, it's such a sexy word on the internet these days.

• 1:11:43Speaker 00

  Melanie Beatty died.

• 1:11:45Jonathan Cohen?

  We did an episode to see if mine and I were codependent.

• 1:11:47Speaker 00

  She is no more codependent. She, Melanie.

• 1:11:51Mayim Bialik?

  Stop, no, no. I will not do this to you. No, I won't. You can't, I'm stopping you. I'm protecting you from yourself.

• 1:11:59Jonathan Cohen?

  I'm encouraging you.

• 1:12:02Mayim Bialik?

  Let's talk about, a little bit about codependency. I mean, you mentioned Midwest and only child.

• 1:12:08Speaker 00

  Hello.

• 1:12:08Mayim Bialik?

  Which is like a little bit like two big checkmarks. Nothing against the Midwest, but when you are of a certain age, there is a particular culture clash, I think, if you're coming out of Detroit. You're from Detroit, sorry.

• 1:12:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:12:20Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah, talk a bit about, how did you earn your codependency?

• 1:12:24Speaker 00

  Well, Mom, Michelle never listened to this. I think I come from a long line of codependents. We're super good at it. How did I, I think that-

• 1:12:38Mayim Bialik?

  How do you define it also?

• 1:12:40Speaker 00

  Well, I think where the line between me and another person is very blurry. And I was reading a book about narcissism and I was like, ooh, wait, am I also narcissistic? Like, I, like, like-

• 1:12:54Mayim Bialik?

  You can be more than one.

• 1:12:56Speaker 00

  I could. I am an overachiever, it's true. I, I think that I have decided right now to define it, codependency for myself, as having like a super blurry line between me and other people. And, and like, I just spied your Mel Robbins Let Them over there and I listened to that book. And it's such a great, like, book about codependency, really.

• 1:13:25Mayim Bialik?

  Detaching, yeah.

• 1:13:26Speaker 00

  It is about detaching with love and, like, that, to me, is something... When I think about detaching with love, I think about, like, how-

• 1:13:38Speaker 00

  How to let everyone just like be in their own bubble and like enjoy them as they are. And so I guess one of the things I've really been trying to do in the last couple of years is like, is strengthen and harden that line between me and other people. So that like, I don't think, I want to not think I know better. I want to not like be so invested emotionally and like what the people in my life are doing and thinking and the decisions they're making. And so I guess that's how I would define it. And I think I come by it really naturally because like I said, like I come from the Midwest

• 1:14:18Speaker 00

  and a big, big family on my mom's side, which is women, all types of women and ages of women who've been really influential over me. And we all like, we just really get in there. We just really want to get in there and figure out and solve the problems and move on. And I think that sometimes when you're like kind of type A, like you just like, like I can see it so clearly from the outside, I can fix it. And like also like that I can't be happy if someone that I love is unhappy. Like I'm not allowed to be happy if my husband is unhappy because then like I'm not, that's not love. Like you're only really loving someone if you're like feeling the way that they're feeling, which is so untrue.

• 1:15:00Speaker 00

  But that's kind of how I think by accident I was taught to love.

• 1:15:05Mayim Bialik?

  Mm-hmm. And also the notion that it's okay to be a caregiver, it's okay to be loving, it's okay to be helpful, but doing for other people what they can and should be doing for themselves is not necessarily healthy.

• 1:15:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:15:19Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:20Speaker 00

  And I think ultimately it's really self-involved. And it's, it's, I mean.

• 1:15:26Mayim Bialik?

  It's the most selfish, selfless thing that you can do.

• 1:15:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, and I think I was taught something about being self-centered. And I was always so concerned with not being like an only child. Like only children are like so selfish and, and people, oh, I didn't even know you were an only child. Wow, and that's like a compliment? Like that's, I don't present that way. And I'm like. Yeah, see, like, but I think I was always trying to sort of combat that definition of only child. And also like having a little bit of a blurry line with my mom growing up about like, is she my mom or is she my friend?

• 1:16:04Speaker 00

  And, and sometimes like needing a mom and needing, you know what I mean? And like, and I think it's great because we're so close, but at the same time, I think it taught me like to, to not always like have like strong definitions of relationships.

• 1:16:21Jonathan Cohen?

  I mean, we want to be close with our parents and yet sometimes you definitely need a parent like I'm, my son is an only son. Yeah. Only child. And sometimes I'll turn to him, I'll be like, dude, I'm not, I'm not your buddy all the time. Like sometimes like you need to do what I tell you.

• 1:16:37Speaker 00

  We do.

• 1:16:38Mayim Bialik?

  If you're friends with a codependent, we will also tell you what to do, even if you're not your parent. I want to touch on Eric LaRue, which is coming out April 4th and directed by Michael Shannon.

• 1:16:50Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:16:52Mayim Bialik?

  This is a different kind of role than we've seen you in. You know, much of your career, which, you know, much of your career, you know, you're kind of that actress that like, has been in like, oh my gosh, I've seen her in and you can list a dozen things off the top of your head, even if you're in menopause. You can list like a dozen things and obviously Arrested Development, like things that really like have gained you tremendous like love, attention, affection, and that one episode of Big Bang Theory. But this is, this is a very dramatic, very significant emotional kind of piece.

• 1:17:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:17:27Mayim Bialik?

  What was it like to take this kind of part?

• 1:17:32Speaker 00

  It was scary. I was scared, but I trust Mike, Michael Shannon, the director. I trust Mike so much. I mean, I trust him now so, so much, but like, we had worked together a couple of times. We were friends and so when he sent me the script and wanted me to play it and like he, it was his directorial debut, so. He actually, that's not true because he directs a lot of theater, but like his first movie. And I was so incredibly flattered and like Mike has access to like, I think every actress, he couldn't have asked to do this. So I was like hugely flattered and just like being asked to do it. Like they say like it's just an honor to be nominated, but even like I got to do it.

• 1:18:15Speaker 00

  But like just the fact that he wanted me to do it, I was like, I are like done. Like I already got like that feeling of like, wow, they like me, they really. Anyway, I respected him so much as a, as an artist for so long. So that was huge. And then playing the role, like, once we all got there, like all of us actors and we were in Wilmington, North Carolina. And we were, it was kind of like the old days of making movies. We all stayed in the same hotel, like we all went to work together and came home together. Like we had dinner together every night, like it's now different, like because, you know, you go on location and you rent an Airbnb and like you bring your kids or like what?

• 1:18:55Speaker 00

  It's like, we're all just like now, it just used to be that we were all together, like summer camp. So it felt like that again. And, and the work was really tough, but I learned a lot. I mean, the movie is really about grief and about processing grief. And I, I don't know, it opened my eyes to like the different versions of grief that there are and what we see and what we imagine is the biggest grief is, is, you know, it's different. It's not just always one version.

• 1:19:35Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah, that's one of the things I wanted to ask about, um, cause the film is,

• 1:19:41Mayim Bialik?

  it, it's, it's from the perspective of parents whose, whose son has committed a horrendous and very, very disturbing

• 1:19:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:19:49Mayim Bialik?

  act of violence.

• 1:19:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:19:50Mayim Bialik?

  And what I think is so interesting is it really is kind of slicing grief into all of these different pieces. That even in a couple, right? Even in a unified front, you can have such a distinct and specific reaction. Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about just sort of as an actress, what that process was also like?

• 1:20:12Speaker 00

  Well, it was, I guess, when I look back on it now and I think of grief, what I was interested in about it while we were shooting it was the role of the church in, in the recovery of these people in this community. And because I was raised in a couple of different churches with a little bit, like, a lot of different religious experiences, like, that was really interesting to me. And how people look for guidance. And because I'm from the Midwest, I mean, I've lived here now longer than I've lived in the Midwest. But what, like, I don't want to sound like a jerk, but like, what we think happens on the coasts

• 1:20:56Speaker 00

  is not really, well, we know that because of the election, is not really indicative of what's actually going on in the country as a whole. And people really, like, do try to rely on a church. They rely, like, they're, that's a big part of people's lives. And that's where they go for solace and for comfort. And that was so interesting to me when I was, when we were making the movie. It was interesting to me that these people, because I don't often play people who look to the church for help. And that was what was interesting to me about the community that we were creating and these two characters, that they were both looking at different churches for help.

• 1:21:39Speaker 00

  And these churches had different ways to try to provide comfort for their community and their followers. Like, one church is like, everything is divine and this was God's plan. And this was, you know, he wanted this to happen for some reason and we won't know. And then the other church and the other version of comfort through a church is like, you know, God doesn't do terrible things, but the church is here to help you through what happens. And like, I found that to be really interesting because when I grew up, there was so much religion in my childhood and it never provided any comfort for me. And like, I, like, now that I'm older, like, I would like that.

• 1:22:24Speaker 00

  Like, I was interested in these, in this version of trying to find help for grief and telling the story. And it was like, kind of hard to go back in time and think about that and see the church from this point of view.

• 1:22:39Speaker 00

  I don't know if that answered your question.

• 1:22:40Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah, and also, like, just, I can't help it. Your mom had a stint as a nun?

• 1:22:46Speaker 00

  Was a stint, yes. She claims that my father is her first husband, but that cannot be the case if she married God first. And I like to remind her of that often. And she's like, "Stop it." I'm like, "That's not your first husband." She officially nunned for four years. She did four years of nun high school and four years of official nunning until she got respectfully asked to leave the convent. And then she went to nursing school and became a nurse. And while she was in nursing school, she met my dad.

• 1:23:18Mayim Bialik?

  Wow.

• 1:23:20Jonathan Cohen?

  Respectfully asked to leave?

• 1:23:24Speaker 00

  What my mom said is that the mother superior thought she would be better at serving God in a more secular environment.

• 1:23:32Jonathan Cohen?

  That sounds very politically correct.

• 1:23:36Mayim Bialik?

  That sounds like you're doing things that don't feel nunning.

• 1:23:38Speaker 00

  She had a red bathing suit, she said. And she was, they said she was vain, which...

• 1:23:47Mayim Bialik?

  To sin?

• 1:23:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, those were the things that she...

• 1:23:52Mayim Bialik?

  When were they seeing her red bathing suit?

• 1:23:54Speaker 00

  One of the parishioners had a pool.

• 1:23:56Mayim Bialik?

  No.

• 1:23:57Speaker 00

  And so the parishioner said, like, "Oh, it's really hot. This is Ohio in the summertime. Like, if you guys want to come swimming, you can come in our pool." And I guess, like, all the other nuns had, like...

• 1:24:06Jonathan Cohen?

  Black.

• 1:24:07Speaker 00

  Nun bathing suits. And my mom was like, "Dope. I'm getting a red bathing suit because I love the color red." And they're like, "Whoa."

• 1:24:15Speaker 00

  And I think, like...

• 1:24:18Mayim Bialik?

  That's it, out you go.

• 1:24:19Speaker 00

  You're out. We knew it. But yes, that was, that was one of many symbols of vanity.

• 1:24:26Jonathan Cohen?

  I mean, the moment is your mom standing about to choose the right bathing suit to buy before she even has that?

• 1:24:34Mayim Bialik?

  Can you tell he's a screenwriter?

• 1:24:35Jonathan Cohen?

  But for that moment, you wouldn't be here. If she had gone...

• 1:24:38Speaker 00

  She'd gone black bathing suit. I'd like to think I would have anyway. I'm imagining the moment for me is like the head-to-toe habit just coming off. And the red bathing suit. They're lucky she had a bathing suit at all.

• 1:24:50Mayim Bialik?

  I mean.

• 1:24:51Jonathan Cohen?

  I'm curious about how you find a character like this. I, you know, tend to think of things a little bit, you know, from a metaphysical standpoint. And I'm like wondering when you're walking in or like starting to read that character and sort of like taking on that role. Like, do you know when you find it? Does it feel different to you? That's part one. And part two is like, how do you distance yourself after you've inhabited someone who's playing that type of grief? Do you feel like it sticks with you or do you kind of have to cleanse it out of you?

• 1:25:21Speaker 00

  It's funny that you ask part two because I just wrapped last night. Like, most of the TV show that I'm shooting in this last week has been just like super heavy, super dramatic stuff, like really intense emotional scenes. And I was like, coming here today and I was like, I feel like I've been through a trauma. Like, I feel like, and then, not like we're the real heroes or anything, but like, but I'm like, I wonder if there's any validity to, and I know I'm an actor, but like, to putting myself through things emotionally that,

• 1:26:03Speaker 00

  because I also feel really puffy and I'm like, I think I'm holding, like, I think I have a lot of cortisol in my body right now. Like, I think I'm holding on to a lot of stress and adrenaline, cortisol, like, that is like making me just feel like, and I think it's because my body, I had an acting teacher in college say like, if you need to cry, just like start pretending to cry, your body will remember crying and it'll just cry. And that doesn't totally work, by the way, but like, sometimes it does. And your body kind of remembers. Like, you could probably just make yourself throw up by like trying to make yourself throw up, right? Like, just pretending to throw up and then maybe, I don't know. Anyway, my point is this, the body could potentially think it's been through the trauma that this character has been through.

• 1:26:44Jonathan Cohen?

  100%.

• 1:26:45Mayim Bialik?

  Brain doesn't know the difference.

• 1:26:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, so I think I actually sort of like have been through a trauma in a way. Anyhow.

• 1:26:51Mayim Bialik?

  I'm glad you're in therapy.

• 1:26:53Speaker 00

  Do you think I need it? Am I wasting money? The first question I think I don't under, the first part, like, how do I?

• 1:27:01Jonathan Cohen?

  Let's stay with the second part for a second. Because it's true, the brain or the body doesn't know the difference.

• 1:27:06Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:27:06Jonathan Cohen?

  You know, the more experts we talk to, the body's physiological mechanisms are going to respond to whatever the brain is generating. And if the brain is generating those scenes where you're deep in character and for those moments, you are experiencing that, then it would make sense that the aftermath would be like, oh, I just went through something. Like, there's probably some divide, but like, not a full divide.

• 1:27:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:27:32Mayim Bialik?

  It's the basis of like when people talk about manifesting, right? You're placing yourself in the present tense of I am experiencing all the things you want to experience because you're tricking your brain into believing that you are healthy, you are abundant, you are loved. So, yeah, I think for actors, that's a little bit of what it's like, you know?

• 1:27:51Jonathan Cohen?

  And then what is that reset process? How do you sort of do both repair and then also tell your body that you're not in that state anymore? Because you're now in whatever other state you're in.

• 1:28:02Speaker 00

  I weirdly think I need to actually like tell my body that that didn't really happen. Like, I think I need to like, and people are like, oh, I need a massage or go to spa or whatever. But I think that that, it's like, yes, it's like, I have to go have a spa day to like, but I think it is about having a spa day. It is about like whatever version of like, like telling my body like, that didn't happen to me. I am okay. I, I will let that go and like, like not let that sit inside of my cells. I mean, like, I will go through like shooting a movie for a couple of months and I'll come home and immediately get sick. And it's like, of course I'm getting sick. Of course my body's like, okay. I mean, dressed like on the day, like I have like a playlist I would listen to called Drive Home Happy.

• 1:28:47Speaker 00

  My phone is not there, so I don't know why I pointed at my water. Drive Home Happy. And I would listen to it when I was driving home from work every day on Eric Larousse. Specifically, I made it because it was like Beyonce and Taylor Swift and just like happy, happy songs that I would listen to and be like, woo, okay, like today was so fun. And like get like my wiggles out that way.

• 1:29:12Jonathan Cohen?

  Part one of the question, the way that I imagine it is that there a character exists that you created.

• 1:29:19Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:29:20Jonathan Cohen?

  And I imagine it in two different ways. One is you start to read this character on the page, and you start to build pieces of it, and then eventually it all comes together. Or you start to read this character and you kind of just almost channel it and then express it during the scenes. And so, because I think, and again, I'm making all this up, I'm not an actor whatsoever. But I think that, you know, especially when it's a very intense role that has an enormous amount of emotional complexity, the Judy of you, who is not that character, it would be uncomfortable to step into that. So you wouldn't just kind of like, like there has to be some sort of transition.

• 1:30:02Jonathan Cohen?

  And I guess I wonder, you know, do you find it or you know you found it when you start to do takes? And it sort of comes to life, or do you feel like before you're actually on set, you sort of know that you have it?

• 1:30:15Speaker 00

  Um, I think it depends on the project and the actual workspace that I'm in. And sometimes it's that I have it going into it, and sometimes it happens while I'm there. Sometimes if I'm shooting something for, and you may agree with this too, but like that when I'm shooting something, it like takes a week to get into it, and then all of a sudden I'm there. So sometimes it's like a combo pack of the two things that you said, where it's like, I know that I can access this, I know where this like lives in my body and like through Judy. But like I go and I'm like, oh, now I'm seeing like what they want from it. And I'm also like now here and I'm saying the words out loud and I'm seeing like how they're coming out of my mouth.

• 1:30:54Speaker 00

  And like if they're feeling real or not, and like the best version is like when I don't really have to. The best version is like that there's enough of me in it. That I don't have to work so hard to get there. And it's like just the version of me that this person is. And when it's a great script, like Eric Larue is such a great script. It was actually a play that they turned into a movie that like it was so easy. Like I didn't have to do any like tricks. It's just like being in those scenes was so uh was was just like on the page. Cause I didn't have to like make up things.

• 1:31:34Mayim Bialik?

  Also, I think it depends, I mean, he's never asked me this, but I'm gonna answer it too.

• 1:31:38Speaker 00

  Good.

• 1:31:38Mayim Bialik?

  I think it also depends on the, you can have it one way when you're by yourself and when you're reading the script. And when you get into a dynamic with the other people, you're then intersecting with the people that they're creating. I did a Jim Jarmusch movie um last year and it was me and Adam Driver. Like most of all my scenes was me and Adam Driver and also Tom Waits. And I had this like whole idea and like I worked with, I worked with my coach, like shout out to Ren Bell. Like I worked with Ren and like we like had it and like, oh, we're gonna do it like this is a little bit lighter touch, Mayim. And like, okay, now we're gonna do like a little bit more intense. And like, what if Jim Jarmusch wants like a really deeply quirky, you know, I had all the options open. And then like the first time I sat at a table reading, I was like, oh, Adam has a whole way that he's doing this character. Mine doesn't match it anymore, right?

• 1:32:22Mayim Bialik?

  And I'm gonna follow his lead, but just, you know, good hunch. But it it be it became a different amalgamation of the things that I thought, the things that I worked on. And then the things that it becomes when you're then in the dynamic and it's 25 degrees. And you're wearing the boots and the hand warmers and you're standing outside in the cold. And that's like, everything kind of takes on its own. But it is, it's a it's a matrix that you're in. It's not just, you know, kind of you by yourself.

• 1:32:49Speaker 00

  Because you like can, like you can prepare as much as you can prepare. But then, like when you get there, and this is why preparation is so important, that you have something that you can hold on to if you need to. But you can let go and like, no, I I had. I'm learning to be better at letting director, like a director, like, tell me the tone. Cause like, like back to being codependent, it's like, I know it, I know what I'm doing. Like, but like, it's a director's job to make sure that like, like I am in the same movie as everybody else. That we're all making the same movie. That my movie is not different from his movie.

• 1:33:28Mayim Bialik?

  Which is hard though, cause as a comedic actress, right? And especially like if you've done, for me, like I do television, like going from

• 1:33:34Speaker 00

  Oh my god.

• 1:33:35Mayim Bialik?

  A television set to a Jim Jarmusch set, I was like, dude, why am I here? Like, what is happening? Because I'm used to like, everything happening really quickly. You've got three seconds to process, like, once the camera switches to you, you've already gone through the process, you can deliver the punchline.

• 1:33:48Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:33:49Mayim Bialik?

  It's very different.

• 1:33:52Mayim Bialik?

  Before we let you go, and you mentioned Taylor Swift, like, we have to talk about it.

• 1:33:57Speaker 00

  Let's.

• 1:33:57Mayim Bialik?

  I'd like to know, um, yeah, what's your, what's your Taylor Swift story? Did you just happen to understand that she became like, part of the vernacular of music and it just clicked with you? Do you have a specific like connection point?

• 1:34:11Speaker 00

  Uh, the pandemic.

• 1:34:13Mayim Bialik?

  Oh.

• 1:34:14Speaker 00

  I think it was, um, Folklore. Folklore, I've been a fan, like, I loved her music, but when Folklore came out, I think, I'm ashamed to say, was when I decided, like, I, I kind of, like, had really a lot of respect for her as an artist, more so than a machine. And I think I'm ashamed to think of her as like a machine leading up to that, especially like when you start to like learn about like, did she write? Like, just everything she does.

• 1:34:47Mayim Bialik?

  The documentary was very helpful for me.

• 1:34:50Speaker 00

  Also, The Cat in the Backpack, thank you. Um, but, the, but like when Folklore came out, it was just, was more my kind of music. And, and also, I just thought it was so beautiful and like, I just, I don't know, you know, also, we were home. And I just listened to it like, over and over and over. And then, like I said, I'd already loved the previous stuff, but then I went back and like, really like dove back in. And then when she came to town, I took my stepdaughter and we went to see her and it was like, this really, like, I remember at one point, and Emily's 28 now, so whatever, 26 or something,

• 1:35:31Speaker 00

  but she looked at me and she was like, "I feel like I'm watching my entire childhood unfold in front of me." Like during the concert, which I was like, "Wow, for this girl, like for my Emily, like this is her life." Cause she probably doesn't totally remember when there wasn't this. Like for her own choice of her own music, I mean, you know what I mean? Not just like listening to what her dad listens to.

• 1:35:56Mayim Bialik?

  It's the voice of a generation that then obviously is...

• 1:35:58Speaker 00

  Literally, and watching her and like seeing that through her eyes was really cool. And so, and I love, like, I don't know, why, why, can't we just love her?

• 1:36:09Mayim Bialik?

  Oh, I do.

• 1:36:10Speaker 00

  I mean, me too.

• 1:36:12Mayim Bialik?

  I mean, we switched over to Taylor's version. We only listen to Taylor's version now, you know, of everything. I know, and but like...

• 1:36:17Speaker 00

  We had to rebuy all those records. It was not cheap.

• 1:36:20Mayim Bialik?

  It was not cheap to be a Swiftie at that moment in time. Yeah, just wanted to touch on that.

• 1:36:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, and I think she's really special.

• 1:36:30Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah, I did a show, I did a, after Big Bang Theory, I did a show for three years called Call Me Cat, and it was about a woman who runs a cat cafe.

• 1:36:36Speaker 00

  Yes, you did!

• 1:36:38Mayim Bialik?

  We kept like dropping Swiftie hints, but like we couldn't get a retweet. We'll just keep trying. I know, but I don't think it's over. I feel like, I mean, look, I, I was a, a very different kind of TV icon in my, in my teens. Like very different TV, very, I'm not comparing myself to Taylor Swift.

• 1:36:56Speaker 00

  I grew up next to you.

• 1:36:57Mayim Bialik?

  Well, we're the same age, but it's cute. But, but part of me is kind of fascinated by this, you know, her as a generational movement, you know?

• 1:37:06Speaker 00

  Yes, who was our...

• 1:37:06Mayim Bialik?

  I think she and I need to be in conversation.

• 1:37:08Speaker 00

  I don't know why she's not here. If she does hers with Wil Wheaton, I will be so pissed. If Will gets to do it with Taylor Swift, I will never not be mad.

• 1:37:17Mayim Bialik?

  I'll be like, Judy Greer looks so much like Taylor Swift and Wil Wheaton.

• 1:37:21Speaker 00

  But like, who was our Taylor Swift? Madonna?

• 1:37:24Mayim Bialik?

  Well, here's the thing, for us, no, it was Ani DiFranco. It was the girl left out of all the parties.

• 1:37:30Speaker 00

  It was the Willet Fair.

• 1:37:32Mayim Bialik?

  Like Alanis was also like, yeah, we like smoked cigarettes and we're like, mm. And Taylor Swift is the girl who gets invited to all the parties and still gets to say, "It still sucks to be objectified." "It still sucks to be..." But it's a very different lens than our generation, which was like, "Mm, I got long hair and I don't shave," you know?

• 1:37:51Speaker 00

  Like, if you don't like me, I'm gonna make you not like me.

• 1:37:54Mayim Bialik?

  Correct.

• 1:37:55Speaker 00

  Like, I'm not even gonna try.

• 1:37:56Mayim Bialik?

  Right. No, it was, our generation was like Nirvana was counterculture. Like, Urban Outfitters didn't exist. We just like shopped at aardvarks because like you could get $5 clothing.

• 1:38:07Speaker 00

  Oh my god. Thank you for that.

• 1:38:10Mayim Bialik?

  You're welcome. Anytime.

• 1:38:12Speaker 00

  I remember there was an Urban Outfitters in Ann Arbor, Michigan, which I would go to sometimes, like just to go to the coffee shop and the bead store, duh. Even though it took me like 40 minutes to get there. And there was an Urban Outfitters there and I remember thinking like, if I could buy clothes here one day, like I'll never need anything ever again. Like if I could only shop here. And then I remember taking, again with my stepdaughter, I took her to New York City for the first time to see Wicked on Broadway when she was in high school. And she wanted to go to the Urban Outfitters in New York City. And I was like, there's like so many things, like we have Urban Outfitters at the mall at home. But it was like, but I also understood like the comfort of like seeing the thing that I know in this new place.

• 1:38:52Speaker 00

  And, and then I loved Urban Outfitters so much. Um, some things don't really change. But yes, that's right. It was, it was like Ani DeFrank, yeah.

• 1:39:01Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:02Speaker 00

  I'm just thinking of, like, oh my god. By the way, we, a couple of years ago.

• 1:39:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, when she like made awesome.

• 1:39:11Mayim Bialik?

  I saw her at the Wiltern.

• 1:39:13Speaker 00

  Me too, I was there.

• 1:39:14Mayim Bialik?

  What?

• 1:39:16Speaker 00

  We were probably, we were probably there at the same time.

• 1:39:18Mayim Bialik?

  We were probably holding hands and hugging at the same time.

• 1:39:21Speaker 00

  Did you get the t-shirt?

• 1:39:22Mayim Bialik?

  Um, I don't have the t-shirt, but I have the music book because I used to play it on piano and bass guitar.

• 1:39:28Speaker 00

  We, my husband pulled that out of a, we were at a record store in San Francisco not too long ago and he pulled out. And he was like, do we have, like, we should have this, right? And I was like,

• 1:39:40Speaker 00

  and so we bought it. Yep. And every time someone came over to our house, we would be like, oh, we just got this record. And then like, we would put it on in conversation and then eventually the conversation would stop and it would just be like a full hour of like all of us, just like. Yes.

• 1:39:57Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:57Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 1:39:58Mayim Bialik?

  It's different, very different. Um, it's been such a pleasure to talk to you.

• 1:40:02Speaker 00

  I don't wanna go.

• 1:40:03Mayim Bialik?

  I know. But it's time to go. It's time to go. You have to return to your other iteration of the universe that exists outside of this room. Thank you so much. We, um, we hope that people will check out Eric LaRue. Um, anything else you wanna tell people about that they should look to, look for?

• 1:40:18Speaker 00

  I mean, I'm just so excited about Eric LaRue. I mean, I also just wanna like shamelessly plug like indie film and going to movie theaters. That's wrapped up in my campaign for seeing this movie and the story that's being told and the performances. But also just like, if you have two hours.

• 1:40:36Mayim Bialik?

  Get off your streamers.

• 1:40:37Speaker 00

  I'm thinking of you right now.

• 1:40:41Speaker 00

  I know he had two hours, um, this morning.

• 1:40:47Speaker 00

  I was just, please, if it's not even, just please go to the movies. Please.

• 1:40:52Mayim Bialik?

  Thank you so much.

• 1:40:53Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 1:40:54Mayim Bialik?

  Really great to talk to you.

• 1:40:59Mayim Bialik?

  I don't wanna put too much pressure on Judy to talk about this in, in depth, but I wanted to talk a bit more about what she said about sort of feeling, you know, a sense of trauma after doing, um, days and days of, of very emotionally intense work. You know, I think to some extent, obviously, you can fool the brain. Um, and, you know, I, I think of, you know, being a performer as kind of an elaborate, you know, dissociative identity disorder. You are taking on another persona. And I think about actors who are method. You know, actors who stay in character, right? Daniel Day-Lewis famously does this. Name another actor. Gary Oldman, Leonardo DiCaprio, we've heard does it.

• 1:41:41Mayim Bialik?

  I don't know if I've heard of any females that are, are method-y. Um, but that notion of really immersing yourself. I have a friend, um, who's Australian and when she works on a film where she doesn't need to use that accent, even off camera, she sometimes cannot get her Australian accent back. Like you're putting yourself in a different milieu, as it were.

• 1:42:01Jonathan Cohen?

  There have been studies of people who have multiple identities, where one of the identities will have a certain health problem that another one doesn't.

• 1:42:08Mayim Bialik?

  Totally. Yeah, blood pressure changes, all these things.

• 1:42:10Jonathan Cohen?

  The brain doesn't know the difference. So I think there's a whole area for actors in terms of resetting out of a role to sort of reestablish who they are on their baseline.

• 1:42:21Mayim Bialik?

  Have you ever been in a relationship where you felt like you were a different version of yourself? And when you left-

• 1:42:26Jonathan Cohen?

  Or they were a different version of themselves.

• 1:42:28Mayim Bialik?

  Or when a relationship ended that you had to recalibrate, that you had to re-remember the things that you enjoy, the things that you like doing. A lot of us discard, you know, personal progress or hobbies when we're immersed in a relationship, especially a codependent one. It's kind of making me think, gosh, we're all sort of in different states of fluidity. Actors do it for the entertainment of other people. And, you know, for thousands of years, we have enjoyed people making us laugh. We have enjoyed poking fun at things that don't make sense in society with satire and these sorts of things. So it is something that we're kind of ingrained to be interested in watching other people do. And for the viewer, it can be very cathartic to see someone going through something.

• 1:43:12Mayim Bialik?

  It can help you process, but at what cost?

• 1:43:16Jonathan Cohen?

  Very good question.

• 1:43:17Mayim Bialik?

  Such a treat to get to talk to Judy Greer. I've kind of like seen her in things like here and there and all over, but I've never really listened to interviews with her and just feel like we got such a special opportunity to talk to her. Stuff about alcohol was fascinating to me. And her insight about aging, especially in the industry, I just really, really appreciated. So that's it, from our breakdown to the one who hope you never have. We'll see you next time.