266. The Delivery Man Killings

In this episode, Payton and Garrett explore the case of Marc Angelucci, a lawyer found dead after a delivery driver allegedly shot him and fled the scene. As another murder unfolds across the country, investigators begin connecting the dots — and are stunned when a third victim emerges. Links: Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/murderwithmyhusband NEW MERCH LINK: https://mwmhshop.com Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/themwmh Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/murderwithmyhusband/ Watch on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@murderwithmyhusband Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/into-the-dark/id1662304327 Listen on spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/36SDVKB2MEWpFGVs9kRgQ7?si=f5224c9fd99542a7 Case Sources:CNN.com - https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/22/us/hollander-angelucci-judge-salas-shooting/index.html Oxygen.com - https://www.oxygen.com/crime-news/roy-den-hollander-linked-to-marc-angelucci-murder ParamountExpress.com - https://www.paramountpressexpress.com/cbs-news-and-stations/shows/48-hours/releases/?view=56989-daniel-anderl-lost-his-life-heroically-protecting-his-parents-from-a-gunman-on-a-rampage-his-family-and-friends-say-his-death-will-not-be-in-vain-2 USAToday.com - https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2020/07/21/killing-mens-rights-attorney-marc-angelucci-may-linked-esther-salas-case/5483731002/ LATimes.com - https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-07-21/fbi-deliveryman-suspect-new-jersey-judge-family-attack-california-lawyer-killing DailyNews.com - https://www.dailynews.com/2020/07/21/mens-rights-lawyer-suspected-in-n-j-ambush-is-being-investigated-in-san-bernardino-county-attorney-killing/ People.com - https://people.com/crime/suspect-in-federal-judges-son-murder-linked-to-2nd-murder-in-calif-fbi/ 6ABC.com - https://6abc.com/judge-esther-salas-roy-hollander-marc-angelucci-epstein/6326949/ SBSun.com - https://www.sbsun.com/2020/07/24/surveillance-video-shows-lawyer-linked-to-california-and-new-jersey-slayings-arrived-in-san-bernardino-days-before-crestline-shooting/ NYPost.com - https://nypost.com/2020/07/22/roy-den-hollander-was-in-ca-at-time-of-rival-slaying-report/ DailyBreeze.com - https://www.dailybreeze.com/2020/07/21/mens-rights-lawyer-suspected-in-n-j-ambush-is-being-investigated-in-san-bernardino-county-attorney-killing/ CBSNews.com - https://www.cb Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:27Speaker 01

  Great meeting. Who took notes? Anyone?

• 0:32Speaker 02

  With Monday Note Taker, nobody has to take notes again. It joins your call, transcribes it, and turns the whole conversation into a clear plan. Action items, owners, deadlines, all right there on your monday.com board, ready for the team. So the meeting ends and the plan already exists. Meetings aren't just talk anymore. Go to monday.com, the AI workspace platform.

• 0:57Payton Moreland?

  You're listening to an Ono Media Podcast. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder with My Husband. I'm Peyton Morland.

• 1:04Garrett Moreland?

  And I'm Garrett Moreland.

• 1:05Payton Moreland?

  And he's the husband.

• 1:06Garrett Moreland?

  I'm the husband.

• 1:07Payton Moreland?

  You guys really seemed to like our merch drop, the new Strangy Dangy merch.

• 1:12Garrett Moreland?

  It's almost sold out. I think it is sold out.

• 1:15Payton Moreland?

  Yeah, I think so, too. They were so cute.

• 1:17Garrett Moreland?

  Comes and it goes.

• 1:20Payton Moreland?

  They were so cute. We'll probably definitely drop those again in the future. So if you didn't snag one, don't worry. Hopefully, we will drop those again.

• 1:29Garrett Moreland?

  Watching on YouTube. I am actually wearing the Ghost sweatshirt merch right now. Yeah, repping. I'm repping.

• 1:37Payton Moreland?

  You're repping.

• 1:38Garrett Moreland?

  It's actually really comfy.

• 1:40Payton Moreland?

  I'm in my jammies.

• 1:41Garrett Moreland?

  I don't have a hat on, so my hair probably looks crazy, but I'm letting it grow out because that transplant is still coming in.

• 1:47Payton Moreland?

  You guys, don't forget ad-free content and bonus episodes on Apple subscriptions, Patreon, all the things. If you are listening on Apple Podcasts, double click, boom, bonus episodes.

• 2:01Payton Moreland?

  So bad. That was bad on purpose, you guys. It was bad on purpose. I wasn't showing you my skill. I would never show off like that. Do you have 10 seconds for us today?

• 2:12Garrett Moreland?

  Well, Peyton and I were in Vegas for my sister's volleyball tournament and it was really fun. Not gonna lie, we had a good time. We just watched a lot of volleyball. We hung out. Maybe want to coach volleyball. I want to be a coach. Could I be a coach?

• 2:26Payton Moreland?

  It would be so fun.

• 2:26Garrett Moreland?

  If you want to be on my volleyball team, say aye. On three, one, two, three, aye.

• 2:31Payton Moreland?

  No, I wouldn't because you would yell at me.

• 2:36Garrett Moreland?

  No, I'd be so nice. I'd be so nice.

• 2:39Payton Moreland?

  You'll be like, why did you take that ball?

• 2:43Garrett Moreland?

  No, I'd be the best coach. That's about all I got. We were in Vegas. We hung out for a little bit. Now we're sitting down and recording and we're going to bring you guys a good episode. So buckle up. I have no idea what this case is about, but I'm ready.

• 2:59Payton Moreland?

  Our sources for this episode are CNN, Oxygen, Paramount Express, USA Today, LA Times.com, DailyNews.com, People, SixABC.com, SBSun.com, NewYorkPost.com, DailyBreeze.com and CBS News. Do you ever stop to think about how many strangers we come into contact with every single day? Whether that's passing someone in the grocery store, running next to them on the treadmill, at the gym, sitting next to them at a restaurant. There's so many people that we know absolutely nothing about, yet we have these little interactions with them almost mindlessly all the time.

• 3:39Payton Moreland?

  Sometimes it's easy to forget that these people are also real people with their own lives, their own families, their own hopes and dreams, and their own grudges and dark secrets. We never really stop to think about how a stranger's actions will affect us because most of the time they don't, until they do. So imagine hearing a knock on your front door one day. You see a delivery person in a FedEx uniform. It's a complete stranger just dropping off a package. You aren't even thinking about them as much as you're thinking about what you ordered and what they're dropping off. But when you open the door, your entire life changes forever.

• 4:25Payton Moreland?

  Just because that stranger was out looking for revenge.

• 4:31Garrett Moreland?

  This is why I don't open the door for anybody.

• 4:33Payton Moreland?

  Why I don't leave my house.

• 4:34Garrett Moreland?

  I don't, if you come to my house, the door just doesn't get opened. No matter what, DoorDash, deliveries. Thank you. I appreciate all the delivery drivers that drop it off at my doorstep. Really appreciate it. I will never open the door for you, but I love you so much.

• 4:50Payton Moreland?

  But it's more than that. It's bending down in the grocery store aisle to get the can in the back and there's strangers walking behind you that could literally just.

• 4:59Garrett Moreland?

  I'm not that far gone.

• 5:01Payton Moreland?

  Should be.

• 5:02Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, I should.

• 5:05Payton Moreland?

  Okay, so let me introduce you to a 52 year old man named Mark Angelucci. So in 2020, Mark is living in Crestline, California. This is a small, little mountain town in San Bernardino County. It's about two and a half hours outside of Los Angeles. Now, Mark's never been married by 2020. He doesn't have kids and that's because his entire life has been pretty much dedicated to his work. See, Mark is a high profile, well-liked lawyer. And he's not the kind of attorney that's driving around in some fancy car, wearing perfectly tailored suits all the time. Mark's a lot more down to earth.

• 5:49Payton Moreland?

  He prefers the quieter, more humble lifestyle, which is probably why he chose to even live up in the mountains. He's still got his old car that he's going to drive into the ground. He's not flashy or materialistic, according to any of his friends. He's just a fun-loving, lighthearted person who cares more about his close friendships than showing off to strangers. But there is one thing about Mark's career that some might find a little controversial. See, Mark was a men's rights attorney. And I know in this day and age, that just sounds a little wrong in general, but everyone who knew Mark said he was never someone who was against women.

• 6:32Payton Moreland?

  In fact, he was very supportive of the feminist movement, but he found it important to look for places where men were maybe underrepresented in situations that mattered. For example, Mark was big on representing men who were victims of domestic violence. Oh, interesting. Yeah, I mean, there does need to be representation. Actually, in 2008, he led a lawsuit against the state of California claiming it was unconstitutional to exclude male victims from domestic violence resources. But he also fought for men who were, say, having a hard time getting the custody rights that they deserved. That sort of thing. Everyone needs someone in their corner, and for men who were struggling in certain cases,

• 7:17Payton Moreland?

  Mark was their guy. A lot of the time, he even took on cases pro bono. Now, aside from that, Mark was also the vice president of an organization called the National Coalition for Men, or the NCFM, which is a nonprofit civil rights organization aimed at fighting legal discrimination against men. So this is a big part of Mark's life and his identity, to say the least. And while Mark might have upset a few people along the way, no one anticipated what happened to him in July of 2020. So on the 11th of that month, Mark was enjoying a quiet little Saturday at home with a friend

• 8:00Payton Moreland?

  when, a little before 4:00 PM, there was a knock at his front door. Mark's friend peered out the window and noticed it was a FedEx delivery guy. While Mark was busy, the friend opened the front door and offered to sign for the package. But the delivery person insisted that it had to be Mark's signature. So they waited patiently at the front door while the friend went to grab Mark. He came back, ready to sign for the package and to then continue about his day. And this is when the FedEx man pulled out a handgun.

• 8:39Payton Moreland?

  And just shot Mark point blank on his doorstep.

• 8:43Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 8:44Payton Moreland?

  The delivery man then ran back to his white car, got in and sped off. And this is before Mark's friend has even really realized what happened. Like he heard the bang. He didn't realize though, that the delivery man had shot Mark that fast and then ran away. First responders arrived at Mark's home a little after 4pm that day, but it was too late to save him. Mark was pronounced dead at the scene. And the only thing police really had to work off of was the fact that a white male dressed in a FedEx outfit, driving a white car, pretending to be a delivery man, had been the one who shot him.

• 9:25Garrett Moreland?

  That's gonna be hard to find, especially considering where he lives.

• 9:28Payton Moreland?

  Well, two things were sort of happening simultaneously here. There were both no suspects and dozens of suspects at the same time. Because while they had no idea who this FedEx driver could have been, and why he might have deliberately wanted Mark dead. Mark did have a lot of clients and cases he was working on where he was either representing or working against some pretty troubled people. I mean, anytime a lawyer is killed, you're gonna have a long list of suspects.

• 10:02Garrett Moreland?

  Makes you surprised this doesn't happen more. Not that I want it to happen more, obviously. I'm just saying, considering the amount of cases lawyers take, and high-profile cases, low-profile cases, just anything that has to do with someone dangerous. I'm also surprised that they don't give protection to any of the attorneys, but then that would be, that'd be hard.

• 10:27Payton Moreland?

  I think maybe some attorneys in really high-profile cases.

• 10:31Garrett Moreland?

  It's no different than being like a police officer in that line of work, right?

• 10:35Payton Moreland?

  Well, it's just that like, if you feel like you have had injustice against you, and then there's someone actively working to keep that injustice against you, fight for the person who's hurt you, that is like frustrating. I can imagine just sitting there being like, oh my gosh.

• 10:55Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 10:55Payton Moreland?

  Just feeling so out of control of the situation.

• 10:57Garrett Moreland?

  Mm hmm.

• 10:58Payton Moreland?

  So when this happens, Mark's friends confidently told police it was very likely that the person who had shown up on the doorstep and shot him was someone that he had worked with or was currently working with that probably has a grudge against him. But as police started to look into who those suspects might be, another tragedy happened. It was eight days later and 2,800 miles away. So it's now July 19th.

• 11:29Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 11:29Payton Moreland?

  In North Brunswick, New Jersey, about an hour and a half outside of New York City. And the Anduril family is having what starts off as a lovely Sunday afternoon. 20 year old Daniel was a junior at Catholic University in Washington DC. But that year had been tough on him like it had been for pretty much everyone in 2020. Because of the pandemic, Daniel had spent much of this last semester just studying at home, missing his friends. But Daniel wasn't the type of kid to complain. He and his family were the sort of people to make the best out of any hand they were dealt. Daniel's mother Esther was born to a Cuban mother and a Mexican father.

• 12:11Payton Moreland?

  And honestly, this woman was a hero in more ways than one. When she was younger, she literally helped her family escape from a house fire. Then she grows up and goes on to pursue a law career and becomes the first Latin US District Court Judge in 2011, which is a huge deal. It was through her law career that she ends up meeting her husband, Mark Anduril, who went on to be a criminal defense attorney. Judge Salas, which is Esther's last name, was actually in charge of a pretty famous New Jersey case back in 2014. If you watch The Real Housewives of New Jersey, she was the judge assigned to Teresa Enjo's financial fraud case.

• 12:54Garrett Moreland?

  I've never watched any episodes of anything Real Housewives.

• 12:57Payton Moreland?

  Me neither. I just don't, I think a lot of people think I'm crazy for that, but never been my thing.

• 13:02Garrett Moreland?

  I know, never been my thing. Honestly, Peyton and I don't really watch reality TV. Everyone's always telling us to watch Love is Blind or what's the other one? Love Island. And I don't know, for some reason, we don't love reality TV, huh?

• 13:16Payton Moreland?

  It's not that. It's just that there are other things I would rather watch more and I'm, I don't spend a ton of time watching TV. And so I don't have enough time to then also do the reality TV.

• 13:28Garrett Moreland?

  That's true. Like right now, we're watching This Is Us. The Last of Us.

• 13:35Payton Moreland?

  Guys, Garrett is struggling.

• 13:38Garrett Moreland?

  I've cut a bunch out, but I'm struggling today. Wait, what's This Is Us? Did I make that up?

• 13:42Payton Moreland?

  No, that's the

• 13:44Garrett Moreland?

  I feel like I can't speak English right now, too. I feel like I have a list.

• 13:48Payton Moreland?

  Chriselle's ex-husband, he was on This Is Us.

• 13:52Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, what's his name?

• 13:53Payton Moreland?

  Selling Sunset Chriselle, Justin.

• 13:56Garrett Moreland?

  You mean the guy with Sydney Sweeney?

• 13:58Payton Moreland?

  No, that's Glenn Powell, but close. I'm talking about Justin Hartley.

• 14:02Garrett Moreland?

  Wait, Glenn Powell?

• 14:03Payton Moreland?

  Is not Justin Hartley.

• 14:05Garrett Moreland?

  They kind of look like, right?

• 14:08Payton Moreland?

  Yeah. I mean, yeah.

• 14:10Garrett Moreland?

  Same, same. Tomato, tomato.

• 14:12Payton Moreland?

  Loaf of bread, I guess.

• 14:13Garrett Moreland?

  Same loaf of bread. Okay, thank you.

• 14:17Payton Moreland?

  Anyways, she was the judge for The Real Housewives of New Jersey.

• 14:22Speaker 05

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• 14:49Payton Moreland?

  You know what, guys? We're going there. We are talking about Lola blankets, the softest blankets to ever exist. The blanket that my baby is currently wrapped in. If you haven't heard about Lola blankets, you're hearing about it now. Lola is the world's number one blanket crafted with ultra-soft luxury faux fur and a signature four-way stretch that sets it apart. It's machine washable, double hemmed for durability and stays flawless. That means no pilling, no shedding, even after repeated washes. I have a Lola blanket in almost every single room in our house because once you get a Lola, you're not going back. You need it anytime you sit down.

• 15:31Garrett Moreland?

  You've probably seen Lola. It's everywhere. Instagram, billboards, friends.

• 15:36Garrett Moreland?

  Lola's are so soft. I actually sleep with a weight like one of the heavier Lola's, like the big ones every night makes a big difference. For a limited time, our listeners can get 35% off select Lola blankets products with code HUSBAND at checkout. Just head to LolaBlankets.com and use code HUSBAND to get 35% off your order. After your purchase, they'll ask where you heard about them. Please support our show and let them know we sent you. Wrap yourself in luxury with Lola blankets.

• 16:04Payton Moreland?

  So all to say, Daniel, who is the only child of two very prominent people in law, decides obviously he's going to follow in their footsteps. So he's planning to go into law school. Once he graduates from Catholic university. But as I mentioned, it has been a while since Daniel has seen any of his friends. Thanks to the pandemic. So earlier that summer, he asked his parents for a favor. Could some of his closest college friends come by and spend the weekend for his birthday if they promised to be super careful? And Esther and Mark say, yeah, sure. So on Friday, July 17th, a handful of old pals stayed at the Andorl's house, spending the weekend laughing, reminiscing and having beautiful meals to celebrate Daniel's

• 16:47Payton Moreland?

  20th birthday. And when it came time to pack up their things that Sunday morning, the 19th, they thought it would only be a matter of time before they would all be reunited again at school. Little did they know, just a few hours after they would leave Daniel's home, everything would change. So that afternoon, there is another knock on the door of the Andorl family home. Now Mark peers out the window to see a FedEx delivery guy standing at their doorstep. Now he thinks to himself, it's a little odd for a delivery driver to be working on a Sunday afternoon, but he figures, I don't know, it's 2020. Nothing seems to be normal right now. So

• 17:28Payton Moreland?

  before Mark can even get to the door, Daniel, his son, who had been chatting in the basement with his mom, darts upstairs to answer the door. And when he opens it, he finds a white man standing there in a FedEx uniform, saying he has an envelope for Esther. He asks Daniel if she's home and if she can come to the door to sign for it. But before Daniel can even make a move to go fetch his mom, the delivery man pulls out a gun.

• 17:59Garrett Moreland?

  Geez.

• 18:00Payton Moreland?

  His dad, Mark, comes around the corner just in time to see his son raise his arms in the air, scream no, and then get shot and fall back onto the ground. So because Daniel has gotten shot and is now on the ground, Mark, the dad, is now in the man's line of fire. So the gunman then points his weapon at the dad and fires three more times.

• 18:25Garrett Moreland?

  What is going on?

• 18:26Payton Moreland?

  Well, it's at this point, obviously, that Esther, the mom, darts upstairs to find her husband and son, both bleeding out in her foyer, and the man who'd attacked them is now nowhere to be found. First responders were out the house within a matter of minutes. They placed Mark, who was still breathing, on a gurney and rushed him to the hospital, but it was already too late for Daniel.

• 18:50Garrett Moreland?

  Oh.

• 18:51Payton Moreland?

  He was pronounced dead at the scene. Now, Mark, his dad, suffered severe wounds to the stomach, but thankfully, he did make a full recovery. And while police weren't yet aware of the similar crime that had just been committed a week earlier in California, I mean, we're on two different parts of the United States. It would only be a matter of time before they found out because both of them are going to rope in the help of the FBI. Now, here's the thing.

• 19:17Garrett Moreland?

  I mean, it's obviously the same guy.

• 19:21Garrett Moreland?

  But why? Because one's an attorney.

• 19:24Payton Moreland?

  One's a judge. Well, I mean, I guess.

• 19:26Garrett Moreland?

  I guess it's the legal system, technically, so.

• 19:29Payton Moreland?

  Yeah. Now, Judge Salas has, of course, gotten threats in the past. She's a high-profile judge prosecuting big cases. So the occasional scary phone call or intimidating letter probably wasn't all that foreign to her, but this is certainly the first time anyone has acted on it, and she has no idea who it could be. While the FBI works to figure that out, they equip her with 24-hour protection from US Marshals. So they're pulling out the big guns for this, especially because they aren't sure if this is one person or an entire. Group of people targeting her family. So the FBI is mentally preparing themselves for what they think is going to be a doozy of a case.

• 20:10Payton Moreland?

  They're getting ready to start collecting any shred of a threat that's been sent to the judge in the past. When the following day, the FBI hear about another death that happened 150 miles away in New York State's Catskill Mountains. So this is now the third death in this case. On July 20th, this is just the day after Daniel's death and Mark's shooting. New York State troopers receive a call about a suspicious vehicle sitting on a dead end road in Sullivan County, New York. Sure enough, when they arrive at the scene, they find the vehicle is abandoned, but they

• 20:51Payton Moreland?

  also discover that just a few steps away is a dead body lying in the grass and this man has been shot in the head. And he has his wallet and his ID on him. It's a 72-year-old man named Roy Den Hollander, but they find something else at the scene sort of covered in the brush. It's a semi-automatic pistol and from the direction of the wound, investigators are pretty sure that the shot was self-inflicted in this case. Now, the name Roy Den Hollander doesn't ring any bells for police. It doesn't seem like he's on any sort of suspect or wanted list at the time, but a

• 21:32Payton Moreland?

  quick background search on Hollander reveals he's also an attorney, though he's from New York City. So the question now is, why would an established lawyer with a big career come all the way up to the Catskills to die by suicide? Well, one of the officers on this case, Captain Brian Webster, starts asking this exact question. But once they start rifling through Hollander's car, things become even clearer.

• 22:04Payton Moreland?

  So probably the most telling clue was that Hollander had a FedEx envelope sitting in his car that was addressed to Judge Solis in New Jersey. And Captain Brian Webster, well, he watches the news. So this name sets off a bunch of alarm bells for him because he's been following the story over the last 24 hours about how a prominent New Jersey judge and her family was targeted by a FedEx worker at their home. So, once he sees that FedEx envelope, he's thinking, wait, I might have the suspect in this case, but he's now our victim in this case.

• 22:44Garrett Moreland?

  Interesting.

• 22:45Payton Moreland?

  So he alerts the FBI right away. Oh, and by the way, a 38 handgun, like the one that was found right by the deceased Hollander, is the same weapon used in the attack on the family. So, I mean, one plus one equals two.

• 23:00Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 23:00Payton Moreland?

  But that's not the only telling thing police find in the vehicle. They also discover a piece of paper with an address for a home in the mountains just outside of Los Angeles. A home in San Bernardino, belonging to Mark Angelucci.

• 23:20Garrett Moreland?

  You know, it's sad that, so sad that the, the woman in this case, like, her son just got killed because of a case she's working on.

• 23:32Payton Moreland?

  Esther.

• 23:33Garrett Moreland?

  That sucks.

• 23:34Payton Moreland?

  So, I do want to just be clear, we have two Marks.

• 23:38Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 23:39Payton Moreland?

  The first victim is Mark Angelucci.

• 23:41Garrett Moreland?

  And the one that's a dad.

• 23:42Payton Moreland?

  Yeah, yep. And the second one is the husband who was shot but is alive. Now, the FBI gets in touch with the police in that district because they're like, why does this paper have this name on it? And then they learn about Mark's murder. Because remember, at that time, the crime was still being investigated by local police forces and they didn't have a single person on their suspect list over in California. So as they're putting the pieces together, they're feeling pretty confident, okay, we think these three crimes.

• 24:13Garrett Moreland?

  Are connected.

• 24:14Payton Moreland?

  Or these three deaths, if you will, are connected.

• 24:17Garrett Moreland?

  I feel like it'd be pretty, I'm not a cop or detective. But I should be on the jury. Besides the point, I feel like it'd be pretty easy to be like, okay, what cases has this judge worked, what cases has this attorney worked? Bada bing bada boom.

• 24:31Payton Moreland?

  They're also like, not only are these all connected, we're pretty sure Hollander shot himself. So now we're thinking he's the guy.

• 24:40Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 24:41Payton Moreland?

  But then why did he shoot himself? But it's on the opposite side of the country. So did he act alone? Is there more people? Is this a group of people who are attacking lawyers or judges? Seems to be the former because they find evidence that Hollander had taken a train out west to San Bernardino on July 7th, four days before Mark Angelucci's murder. Got there, rented a car. It's a car with the same description as the one that showed up at Mark's house that day. And then he fled back to Los Angeles, dropped off the rental and got back on a train at Union Station to come east. So this is just even more damning because they now have proof he went to California. So Hollander is captured in surveillance footage at both train stations, LA and San Bernardino.

• 25:24Garrett Moreland?

  It seems open and shut.

• 25:26Payton Moreland?

  He's walking in this footage with a coffee in his hand, but it confirms exactly when he arrived and left. This just fits the timeline of the crimes. So shortly after making this discovery, police also test the ballistics in the weapon that they found with Hollander at his crime scene, I guess, if you will.

• 25:47Garrett Moreland?

  A self-induced crime scene?

• 25:49Payton Moreland?

  And they run it against the one that shot both Daniel and Mark. Sure enough, the bullets are a match. So the FBI is certain, we have our guy and we know that he was very likely working alone in this. But now we need to know why. Roy Den Hollander wasn't some hardened criminal or someone down on their luck, whose life was made harder by either Judge Solis or Mark Angelucci. He was just another human to them. So why would he want both of them dead? By the way, this mystery only deepens with some of the other pieces of evidence found in his car because Hollander appeared to have made some sort of hit list.

• 26:34Payton Moreland?

  Police also discovered a photo of a New York chief judge named Janet D. Foray. There was also another address for a state appeals courthouse in his car. So now they're wondering, was this someone Hollander had planned to get to and just couldn't? And an address for a courtroom could mean anything, but with Hollander's history and agenda, was he planning to just go in there and open fire on a room full of people? It just seems like there's a ton of what ifs surrounding Hollander. The one silver lining is that he can't hurt anyone anymore. They're pretty sure they have their guy. But all of these targets being court related are a bit telling to investigators.

• 27:17Payton Moreland?

  Clearly Hollander was someone with a grudge, a vendetta. And the only way to get to the bottom of it is to dig deeper into Roy's life. So the day after police find Hollander dead, they're in his New York City apartment, confiscating every shred of evidence they can to unravel this mystery. They're also speaking to anyone and everyone they can get to who might have known or worked with Hollander at some point. And this is what they find.

• 27:45Garrett Moreland?

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• 28:17Payton Moreland?

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• 29:03Payton Moreland?

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• 30:25Payton Moreland?

  One former friend named Jeffrey Drummond says that Hollander was actually a good lawyer. He was a scary guy, though. When he hears that his friend is responsible for not one, but two. High-profile murders? He's like, yeah, that doesn't really surprise me. This guy Hollander had a huge anger problem. See, Jeffrey met Hollander back in 1977 when they were both volunteering for a state senate campaign out of Boston. They both then moved to New York around the same time, three years later. So the two kept in touch, being in a new city and all. But eventually Jeffrey says he started to put distance between them.

• 31:11Payton Moreland?

  He said Hollander was toxic, always extremely angry about life in general and was just the kind of unpredictable person you never really wanted in your life.

• 31:21Garrett Moreland?

  Also kind of ironic, considering he's an attorney trying to get away with

• 31:25Payton Moreland?

  Murder.

• 31:26Garrett Moreland?

  Murder.

• 31:26Payton Moreland?

  Of other.

• 31:27Garrett Moreland?

  He should also know that it's extremely difficult to get away with murder.

• 31:31Payton Moreland?

  I'm not sure he was trying to get away with it. I think he was just trying to get his anger out, considering that he then took his own life. And here's the thing, they interview another one of his friends, Joe, and he said pretty much the same thing. Joe and Hollander actually met in Moscow in 1999. Joe was working for an American consulting firm there and that year Hollander also joined the team. Now, I'm not sure if the job was what brought Hollander out to Russia, but I know Joe was pretty impressed by Hollander's past because Hollander was actually a really intelligent guy. He had worked at prestigious law firms back in the United States and had an MBA from an Ivy League school. Plus Hollander really seemed to keep up with his appearance because he worked out all the time. He was dying his hair a lot.

• 32:17Payton Moreland?

  So Joe thought for a 50-year-old, single guy, this is someone who has a lot going for him. He's smart, he's handsome. And Hollander seemed to think so too, because he was always out in the nightlife scene in Moscow looking for women to date.

• 32:30Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, right.

• 32:31Payton Moreland?

  In fact, Joe said it almost seemed like an obsession for Hollander. All he wanted to do after work was go out, drink and pick up a new woman. And in that nightlife scene in Russia. The 50-ish year old Hollander met a 24-year-old model named Alina. The two had a whirlwind romance and got married in Russia in 2000. Then when Hollander moved back to the States, she came with him under a temporary visa.

• 32:59Garrett Moreland?

  90-day fiance.

• 33:00Payton Moreland?

  25 years in between them. But after they got back to New York City that summer, things started to go south. Alina began filing complaints with the police, saying Hollander had become abusive. Meanwhile, he argued she was just using him to get a green card. And by December of 2000, less than a year after getting married, the two were officially divorced. Later, Hollander would argue that Alina falsely accused him of abuse just so she could stay in the States under the Violence Against Women Act, which does offer those sorts of protections and can help survivors petition for immigration status. Here's the thing, though. People who knew Hollander believed Alina.

• 33:38Garrett Moreland?

  Weren't surprised.

• 33:38Payton Moreland?

  Because Hollander always had this sort of lack of respect, or honestly, rather total disdain for women. He was openly anti-feminist and he used his skills as a lawyer to argue a lot of things that he felt were inherently favorable towards women. But as a fellow lawyer, Nicholas Mundy told The Post, quote, "In my opinion, he was already a controlling misogynistic sexist, delusional and disturbed individual before his marriage failed."

• 34:07Garrett Moreland?

  Dang.

• 34:07Payton Moreland?

  So this is just the type of-

• 34:09Garrett Moreland?

  He's not a good guy.

• 34:10Payton Moreland?

  People around him.

• 34:12Garrett Moreland?

  No offense. Yeah.

• 34:13Payton Moreland?

  And then in the 2000s, friends noticed that Hollander was starting to call women by a new name. So instead of calling them women, he started calling them feminazis.

• 34:25Garrett Moreland?

  Okay, this guy's weird.

• 34:26Payton Moreland?

  So the angry anti-feminist remarks got less subtle, more consistent from there, which would make sense considering some of the cases he started taking on at this point in his career. Like this one. In 2008, he sued Columbia University for providing women's studies classes. He claimed it was bigotry against men. And he won that lawsuit, by the way.

• 34:52Garrett Moreland?

  He won?

• 34:52Payton Moreland?

  Yes. He also filed a handful of lawsuits against bars for having ladies' nights.

• 34:59Payton Moreland?

  Um, he said they violated the 14th amendment that says everyone should have equal protection.

• 35:03Garrett Moreland?

  A life. That's embarrassing.

• 35:05Payton Moreland?

  He's basically saying the fact that you're giving women a discount to get into the bar and not men is prejudicial. So it was sort of trivial nonsense that Roy Den Hollander was wasting his law degree fighting for. But in Hollander's eyes, his fight against women seemed to be a cause worth dying for. And this all appeared to stem back to his mother. Apparently, at one point in his career, Hollander wrote a book and dedicated it to his mother, writing, "May she burn in hell."

• 35:34Garrett Moreland?

  Holy crap. What is going on?

• 35:36Payton Moreland?

  This was a lifelong crusade for Mr. Hollander, something that was made apparent to police when they discovered a 2,000-page manifesto in his apartment.

• 35:50Garrett Moreland?

  2,000?

• 35:51Payton Moreland?

  I can't even begin to get into all of the details, but as you can imagine, a lot of this manifesto had to do with how much he hated women.

• 36:00Garrett Moreland?

  It's embarrassing.

• 36:01Payton Moreland?

  It kind of signaled why he had driven from New York up to the middle of nowhere to die by suicide. Apparently, it had to do with the fact that his family had a cabin there when he was a little boy. You're probably wondering, okay, why the heck did he pick these people? Like, why travel all the way across the United States to shoot one person? Especially because Mark was a male rights activist. This would seemingly be right up Hollander's alley, so you'd think they'd be in the same corner. Not really. Let me start with Mark. Yes, they may have had a similar line of work, but turns out Hollander actually had a grudge against this man for years. And it appeared to be over something that seems small. I guess Mark had filed a lawsuit alongside the

• 36:43Payton Moreland?

  National Coalition of Men around 2014. And Hollander had already been working to file a very similar lawsuit. So now he's like, hmm, even though we're fighting the same battle, you are now my competition.

• 36:56Garrett Moreland?

  Because you were first.

• 36:57Payton Moreland?

  Yeah, because you're fighting the same battle as me.

• 36:59Garrett Moreland?

  What a guy, man. What a guy.

• 37:01Payton Moreland?

  And to make matters worse, worse, Hollander was a board member of the NCFM at the time, but he was kicked out a year later, in 2015, because he called the president of the NCFM, Harry Crouch, and threatened his life after Hollander learned he'd been left out of that lawsuit that Mark was now filing. So he's literally just petty.

• 37:20Garrett Moreland?

  It's such a cowardly move to kill people and then kill yourself.

• 37:24Payton Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 37:25Garrett Moreland?

  Like it's such a cowardly move.

• 37:28Payton Moreland?

  Now, Mark Angelucci had received a handful of threats from Hollander over the years, but apparently didn't know they were coming from him. Or if he did know they were coming from Hollander, he didn't tell anyone. So, all right, we now know his motive for Mark. But why Judge Solis and her family? In 2015, Hollander filed a lawsuit that Judge Solis was overseeing. The case argued that selective service registration was only required for males. So basically, if there's ever a draft for the war, only men are included in that. But Hollander argued that's discriminatory discriminatory.

• 38:06Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, no, man.

• 38:07Payton Moreland?

  Hollander saw this case as a huge milestone for his career. I mean, if he could change this law, he would literally change American history. But Judge Solis was a roadblock to that because she kept delaying the case. Apparently, there were so many postponements that in 2019, Hollander had to turn the case over to a larger New York firm because he claimed something had come up in his life that would preclude him from doing his job.

• 38:30Garrett Moreland?

  And that's when he started killing people.

• 38:33Payton Moreland?

  Roy Dan Hollander, at this point in 2019, had just been diagnosed with cancer.

• 38:38Garrett Moreland?

  Uh, now it all makes sense. He figured he was gonna die anyways.

• 38:42Payton Moreland?

  Might as well go out, taking everyone down with him.

• 38:45Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 38:45Payton Moreland?

  It was terminal. Treatment would only be in vain. I'm not sure how long they gave him to live, but the way he saw it, he wasn't gonna go out alone. In that manifesto, Hollander confessed that the diagnosis motivated him to go after those he felt had wronged him. In his writings, he included the quote, "The only problem with a life lived too long under feminazi rule is that a man ends up with so many enemies that he can't even the score with all of them. But law school and the media taught me how to prioritize." And unfortunately, Mark Angelucci and Judge Solis were some of his top priorities. Though it wasn't Judge Solis who lost her life that day. It was her son, Daniel, and nearly her husband, Mark, as well.

• 39:31Payton Moreland?

  Judge Solis felt that a major part of the problem was how easy it was to access her information online. Thanks to a quick Google search, Roy was able to find his way directly to her doorstep. And in November 2020, she pushed for legislation to change that. That month, Daniel's Law was signed into effect. This bill is aimed at protecting public officials from having any of their personal information listed online. Judge Solis's hope is that no judge, attorney, or lawmaker will ever have to worry about a stranger showing up at their doorstep again. She wants to make sure that none of her colleagues ever have to go through the heartbreaking devastation her family went through when they lost their

• 40:12Payton Moreland?

  only son. If you want to make a contribution to the victims of this case and their cause, you can visit the Daniel Judicial Protection Project's website at www.judicialprotection.org. And that is the murders of Mark Angelucci and Daniel Endurle.

• 40:28Garrett Moreland?

  It's just sad. The son had nothing to do with it. The husband had nothing to do with it. I mean, obviously, it wasn't.

• 40:34Payton Moreland?

  She didn't have anything to do with it, really.

• 40:35Garrett Moreland?

  But I mean, like, there was motive. You know what I'm saying? I'm just saying, just, I mean, they're all innocent bystanders, basically, but the son's just opening the door. Yeah. Like, what the, and I'm sure.

• 40:46Payton Moreland?

  And it's weird that at his first murder, he waited for the correct person to get to the door.

• 40:53Garrett Moreland?

  And this time, he didn't even care.

• 40:54Payton Moreland?

  And this time, he didn't.

• 40:55Garrett Moreland?

  I think that because of the cancer, he just.

• 40:58Payton Moreland?

  I think he was just.

• 41:00Garrett Moreland?

  Well, he had a lot of.

• 41:00Payton Moreland?

  A negative, grumpy, angry person.

• 41:03Garrett Moreland?

  So much rage.

• 41:04Payton Moreland?

  Who constantly played the victim and had rage and thought, you know what, if I'm gonna die, so are other people.

• 41:08Garrett Moreland?

  He was so messed up.

• 41:09Payton Moreland?

  Which is honestly just like the worst type of person because.

• 41:13Garrett Moreland?

  It's horrible.

• 41:14Payton Moreland?

  You're just grumpy. Like, you're just a bad person.

• 41:17Garrett Moreland?

  If you're grumpy and you're listening to this, go do something else.

• 41:21Payton Moreland?

  Well, if you're grumpy because like you didn't get to have a cookie, that is, makes sense, and that's okay. But if you're grumpy because you're, you hate women, you should go to therapy.

• 41:32Garrett Moreland?

  For wild.

• 41:34Payton Moreland?

  All right, you guys, that is our episode for this week, and we will see you next time with another one. I love it.

• 41:39Garrett Moreland?

  And I hate it.

• 41:39Payton Moreland?

  Goodbye.

• 41:49Speaker 01

  Great meeting. Who took notes? Anyone?

• 41:53Speaker 02

  With Monday NoteTaker, the meeting ends and the plan already exists. Action items, owners, deadlines. Go to monday.com, the AI workspace platform.