Dr. Rangan Chatterjee ON: The Science of Mental Well-Being & How to Live a Happier Life Without Burning Yourself Out

Do you want to meditate daily with me? Go to go.calm.com/onpurpose to get 40% off a Calm Premium Membership. Experience the Daily Jay. Only on Calm Jay Shetty sits down with Dr. Rangan Chatterjee to talk about the core of happiness. There is a huge difference between success and happiness, oftentimes we confuse the two as one and the same. One can be successful in their job, career, business, and family life, but can be unhappy. We need to learn the core of happiness to genuinely enjoy life by appreciating our past self, our current life, and the future we all look forward to having. Dr. Rangan Chatterjee is regarded as one of the most influential medical doctors in the UK and wants to change how medicine will be practiced for years to come. He hosts the biggest health podcast in the UK and Europe, ‘Feel Better, Live More’. He can simplify complex health advice so people can feel better and live more. Dr Chatterjee is known for finding the root cause of people's health problems and he highlighted his methods in the ground-breaking BBC television show, Doctor in the House. Want to be a Jay Shetty Certified Life Coach? Get the Digital Guide and Workbook from Jay Shetty https://jayshettypurpose.com/fb-getting-started-as-a-life-coach-podcast/ What We Discuss: 00:00 Intro 03:11 Happiness is the byproduct when we do the right things 08:12 We confuse success and happiness 14:54 Accepting everything that has happened to you 27:14 The process of alignment 40:23 The 2-part exercise to stay aligned 47:00 Alignment is not a destination you get to 49:58 Dr. Rangan on Final Five Episode Resources Dr. Rangan Chatterjee | Instagram Dr. Rangan Chatterjee | YouTube Dr. Rangan Chatterjee | Twitter Dr. Rangan Chatterjee | Facebook Dr. Rangan Chatterjee | LinkedIn Dr. Rangan Chatterjee | Books Dr. Rangan Chatterjee | Website Feel Better, Live More Podcast See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jay Shetty?

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• 0:44Jay Shetty?

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• 1:29Jay Shetty?

  to learn more and get your first class free. Orange Theory Fitness, helping people live longer, more vibrant lives. Terms and conditions apply. See webpage in studio for details. This episode is brought to you by AG1. Are you feeling September reset too? Shorter days, longer to-do lists, earlier alarms, all those routines you promised yourself you'd pick back up. It can feel like your whole life is recalibrating. And when everything around you is changing, it helps to have a few things you can rely on. AG1 Next Gen is one of those easy habits to keep. It's the clinically backed, comprehensive daily health drink that supports your gut health, energy production and foundational nutrition all in one scoop.

• 2:14Jay Shetty?

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• 2:49Rangan Chatterjee?

  We confuse success and happiness. Now, success and happiness can overlap for sure, but more often than not, they don't. Happiness is happiness, success is success. You're going to end up chasing society's idea, more money, a better holiday, a nicer phone. Right, I'm not saying those things are necessarily wrong. The problem is, is if we chase them too much at the expense of what our happiness is.

• 3:19Jay Shetty?

  Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every single one of you that come back every week to listen, learn and grow. Now, today's guest is one of those few guests that we've had on twice now today. And it's because his last episode was so special, so powerful. I know it impacted so many of you and his books have as well. So I'm so excited to talk once again to the one and only Dr Rangan Chatterjee. Now, he's regarded as one of the most influential medical doctors in the UK and wants to change how medicine will be practiced for years to come. His mission is to help 100 million people around the globe live better lives.

• 4:04Jay Shetty?

  He hosts the most listened to health and wellness podcast in the UK and Europe, Feel Better Live More, which regularly tops the Apple Podcast charts. The podcast has received 50 million downloads to date and is consumed by over 2.5 million people every month. He's known for his ability, and this is why I love him and why you'll love his latest book, to simplify complex health advice and finding the root cause of people's health problems. If you remember his last episode, you'll remember we've really got into how doctors can differ and change their perspective about how they view their clients and patients. And of course, today we're talking about his brand new book, which I'm going to hold up the virtual digital version,

• 4:47Jay Shetty?

  which is the world we live in now, Happy Mind, Happy Life. And I really, really hope that all of you go out and grab a copy of this book, 10 Simple Ways to Feel Great Every Day. Rangan, it's great to have you on the podcast again. It's great to see you. Honestly, congratulations on this amazing book and all your incredible success. And I can't wait for people to read it. But thank you for coming to talk to me about it.

• 5:12Rangan Chatterjee?

  Jay, thanks for having me on for a second time. Your show's fantastic. It's a real honor and looking, really looking forward to this conversation.

• 5:19Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, me too, me too. And when I was reading your book, I love how you're changing the way we perceive doctors and how doctors perceive patients. It's like this really interesting cycle of here's a doctor talking about happiness and how happiness is at the core of our health. And that was one of the things I really appreciated when you last came on, when you were talking about when you often see your patients, you'll ask them, well, how many times do you see your friends? How many times a week do you get together with the people that you love? And I was thinking, wow, this is really a fresh perspective and you've done it again. I want to dive straight in. You talk about this connection between health and happiness.

• 6:05Jay Shetty?

  I want to start off trying to understand because often we find that pursuing happiness is actually bad for our health as well. So how are you seeing it differently?

• 6:17Rangan Chatterjee?

  I'm not necessarily saying that we should be pursuing happiness directly. I think happiness is a byproduct when we do the right things. There are all kinds of things that we can focus on on a daily basis. And if we do those things, and we can talk about some of those later for sure. I think happiness comes as a side effect of that. So it's not really, I think, the destination we should be aiming to get to directly. It's more the kind of direction we might want to take in life. It's, it's something that I think we do want. But it's becoming quite unfashionable these days to talk about happiness. And that really, really interests me. But in terms of the relationship between happiness and health, for me as a doctor,

• 7:01Rangan Chatterjee?

  it's always how can I get to the root cause of my patients' problems? Right? Yes, what symptom have they got? But actually, what's going on behind that? So they might come in with a headache or a migraine. And sure, I can diagnose them and tell them what that is. But I want to help them understand, well, what is going on in your life and your lifestyle that might be contributing to this? And for many years, I have said publicly on many occasions that about 80% of what we see as doctors is in some way related to our collective modern lifestyles. But then I began to wonder a few years ago, Jay, well, is lifestyle the root cause? And when I say lifestyle, I mean things like food, movement, sleep and relaxation.

• 7:45Rangan Chatterjee?

  And I thought, is there something that's even more important, even more upstream? And that has consumed me for a few years. And I really think there is. It's our happiness and our mental wellbeing. So when we are happier with our lives and in our lives, we naturally become healthier. And I think there's two main reasons for that. Happier people, so people who are more content, who feel more in control of their life, who are living more in accordance with their values. Actually, they naturally make better lifestyle choices. So if you feel good about who you are and what you're doing in life, you're less likely to feel the need.

• 8:29Rangan Chatterjee?

  To comfort eat and open that box of chocolates in the afternoon to get you through, you're less likely to dive into the tub of ice cream in front of the sofa in the evening. You're less likely to open a beer or half a bottle of wine to help you drown your sorrows if you feel happier and more content. So I think that's one component. Our lifestyle choices become better and it becomes much easier. But I think there's another component as well. Research shows us, there was a study called the nun study, and they followed nuns across the duration of their life. And essentially, once you had controlled for lifestyle, so same diets, same sleep patterns, same exercise habits,

• 9:10Rangan Chatterjee?

  once you'd controlled for that, the happier nuns lived longer and they were healthier. Right? So it's independently linked with good health outcomes as well. And I've seen this with my patients, Jay, that if I can help them think differently. But if you're someone who allows the actions of other people to overly influence how you feel, you know, an email from your boss makes you feel really angry and annoyed and you don't know how to process that. That is creating stress and tension in your body. That is also absolutely relevant to your health and your health outcomes. And we don't think of that. People don't realise, I think, or not enough of us realise.

• 9:52Rangan Chatterjee?

  Certainly, I would say with the public, but also within my profession, that an inability to forgive, holding on to anger and resentment, holding on to hostility is absolutely associated with all kinds of negative health outcomes. Autoimmune disease, heart disease, cancer, you know, strokes, all kinds of things. So what do I want to do as a doctor? I want to help people and I know I'm going to be able to help them better if I can help them become happier.

• 10:22Jay Shetty?

  The reason why we're unhappy, and it would be interesting to go down that path, because the reason why you're working on these things, the patients that you work with, why you wrote this book, is because we are to some degree unhappy.

• 10:38Jay Shetty?

  Or dissatisfied or discontent with who we are. And we don't know what our values are because we've never been trained and educated as to how to develop them. And we don't know how to be aligned with ourselves because we don't even know what that means. We never really were exposed to that vocabulary or those words up until the last few years, even in mainstream society. When you're looking at the root of our unhappiness, where is that root of our unhappiness that you're seeing it come from?

• 11:09Rangan Chatterjee?

  I think much of it comes from society. And this idea of what success is, right? So I think one of the big problems is, is that we confuse success and happiness. Now, success and happiness can overlap for sure, but more often than not, they don't. Happiness is happiness, success is success. And unless you intentionally go through a process to actually define what those things are for you, you're going to end up chasing society's idea, more money, a better holiday, a nicer phone, you know, a better hotel when you go and stay away with your family or your partner.

• 11:52Rangan Chatterjee?

  Right, I'm not saying those things are necessarily wrong. The problem is, is if we chase them too much at the expense of what our happiness is. And many of us fall into that trap. I have fallen into that trap, Jay. Right, I have absolutely, you know, I start off the book, I think with a very powerful story about my dad. You know, dad was, you know, he grew up in India. He came over to the UK in the 1960s in search of a better life for him and his family. Yes, us here in the UK, but also for his family back home in India. And dad worked incessantly. You know, dad was a doctor. There was all kinds of discrimination he faced. He had to change speciality because actually,

• 12:35Rangan Chatterjee?

  you know, he was unable to progress in the speciality that he wanted. Many Indian doctors will tell you this story from the 1960s in the UK. There was a glass ceiling for you. You couldn't go past a certain point. So dad moved speciality to help provide security and stability for us as a family. When dad was consultant, my dad's life for 30 years was he would do his job in Manchester Wood Infirmary as a consultant physician.

• 13:04Rangan Chatterjee?

  In the day and three to four nights a week, my dad wouldn't sleep at all. So he'd come home at five thirty in the evening or six P M. In the evening. Mum would give him dinner, he'd go upstairs and shave and then there'd be a car picking him up at seven P M. And then dad would be off all night. He'd come back the following morning at seven A M. Again, have breakfast, shave again. I remember he would, he would shave twice a day. Go to work. Dad did this for thirty years and here's the problem, Jay. My whole adult life until nine years ago, when my dad died. Was being a carer for my dad. I moved back to the northwest of England to help mum and my brother look after dad.

• 13:47Rangan Chatterjee?

  This kind of idea of what success is. It killed my dad. He chased it. He got it. I had a fantastic education, right? I couldn't want for a better education, but I never saw my dad's. You know, my dad died very, very early in the last fifteen years of his life were hell. I think that story whilst potentially not as extreme for some people. There will be people right now, Jay, who love your content, who are listening to this show or watching it. And probably thinking, yeah, I'm sort of, I love my job, but. Maybe I'm working a bit too hard and I'm, I'm kind of sacrificing the things in my life that are really important. So I kind of feel society gives us a false idea of happiness.

• 14:32Rangan Chatterjee?

  You know, we, we think happiness, Jay, is that billboard, you know, that billboard image of the smiling couple on the beach with their children with the ocean behind them. We think that's happiness. Now, that's not happiness. That's a, a pleasurable experience. That can form part of a happy life, no doubt, but that's not happiness. You know, I've got two young kids, like I've got an eleven year old son and nine year old daughter. And, you know, all of us, I think, as kids, younger than that, when we're really young. We've got that inner happiness. You know, we're present, we're in the moment, we're playing. Maybe with our siblings, maybe with our friends. We're not worrying about the future, we're not fretting about the past. We're right there in the moment. So that happiness is there inside us.

• 15:17Rangan Chatterjee?

  But somewhere along the line, in the book, I call it the adulthood contract. We sign this adulthood contract and things start to go wrong. And I already see it with the kids. Like, school doesn't teach us how to be happy. I don't think many of our parents teach us how to be happy. Society doesn't teach us how to be happy. In fact, society probably teaches us the wrong lessons about what happiness really is. And that's the key message behind this book, Jay, is to help people understand that happiness is a skill. Right, it's a skill that you can practice, just as if you go to the gym and you do bicep curls every day, you're going to have bigger biceps. Well, you know, my contention is, I feel I've broken down the skill of happiness into 10 very easy steps for people.

• 16:01Rangan Chatterjee?

  And if they practice them a little bit, they're going to be a little bit happier. And as they become happier, they're going to become healthier as well.

• 16:11Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely. Thank you so much for sharing that story as well about your father, which really encapsulate this idea really well. I think for me, when I think about what happiness means to me, happiness is the, as you said, ability, the ability to know how to navigate uncomfortable and uncertain times. Because when you know what you have to do, it's more important than wanting to know how things will end up. So we think our happiness is, well, how will this end up? How will, what will the result of this be? Will that make me happy? And to me, actually, go, no, actually, happiness to me is knowing what to do right now in the moment

• 16:54Jay Shetty?

  and having that sense of reflection and introspection and the stillness to be able to carry that out. Because the search, as you said, for that billboard happiness that's out there, that's a projection, again, a societal projection. We're trying to invent and create that in a world that doesn't allow for that every day or every moment. And so knowing what to do in the moment, to me, is where happiness begins, of knowing how to behave, how to think and what to do. And that's what these 10 habits do. You break down what you call core happiness as a three-legged stool, contentment, alignment and control.

• 17:36Jay Shetty?

  I want to go through each of these because they form the tenets of these these 10 habits or principles you give us. But let's, let's start with contentment and you describe contentment here. I've got it in the book. Feeling content means being at peace with your life and your decisions. That's really hard because most of us, when we look back, especially at the past, we think, wow, I've made a lot of bad decisions. I wish I tried that thing. I wish I never went out with that person. Well, I should have left that job a lot earlier. So most of us actually have a very negative view of our decision-making process. Let's talk a bit about decisions, especially decisions of the past that we regret. How do we create contentment around those?

• 18:21Rangan Chatterjee?

  Specifically around decisions in the past. If, you know, we have a deep regret, let's say, or I wish I'd done something differently. I think the first step is to really try and get to a place of acceptance. You were doing the best that you could at that time with what you knew. Right? If you could have done it differently, you would have. And, you know, it depends how deep you want to go with this, but certainly for me, one of the things that's really helped me with my happiness and my contentment in particular is real acceptance of every single thing that has ever happened to me or I have done, whether it's something I'm proud of, whether it's something I'm not proud of,

• 19:02Rangan Chatterjee?

  or it's something that actually I could make a case that I made the wrong decision. No, actually, I made the very best decision for my growth because actually if I look back now and see that it was potentially a negative, it's about reframing it to go, oh, what did I learn from that? Right, what did I learn from that? Oh, I never would have learnt that had that not happened. Had I not gone to that job that I didn't like. You know, I can think of one particularly in my mind, you know, early on in my career as a doctor. I was like, I worked in a practice that I hated the framework and the structure there. Right, I would get frustrated, I would come home and complain to my wife every day. She kept saying, hey babe, you know, if you don't like it, why don't you leave?

• 19:46Rangan Chatterjee?

  I'm, I can't leave, you know, this is, it pays us money, it does that, you know, story. I created this kind of, almost like a victim story around it, you know? And I know the word victim can be very triggering for people and I don't mean it to be. Certainly talking about my own experience.

• 20:04Jay Shetty?

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• 20:49Jay Shetty?

  Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. This episode is brought to you by Amtrak. You know that feeling when you're already tired and you haven't even gotten there yet? That's where Amtrak comes in. Leave the driving behind and settle into a comfortable seat with plenty of room to stretch out. Catch up on work with wifi, grab a snack at the cafe car, or just sit back and enjoy your favourite podcast. Choose a cellar or North East Regional and get there without the stress of getting there. Visit amtrak.com to plan your next trip. This episode is brought to you by Mazda. The best habits are the ones we hardly notice, the ones that quietly shape the way we move through life,

• 21:32Jay Shetty?

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• 22:17Rangan Chatterjee?

  What I've learned, Jay, is that you can always write a different story about any event in life. You've always got a choice in what story you put onto something, and you can practise this and train it. So one of my tips to people is, in any bit of friction you encounter in life, see if you can choose a happiness story around it. And there's a couple of ways that we can think about this. So if we remember back to March 2020, when the whole world was going into lockdown and people were getting scared, there was lots of images of supermarket shelves being empty and there'd be no toilet roll there. So these are big headlines, and the amount of people who were criticizing, "I can't believe this, who's doing this?

• 23:01Rangan Chatterjee?

  Who's taking more?" You can tell yourself that story for sure, but you can also see if you can write a different story around the same situation. So, okay, what was going on there? Well, could it have been that every shopper that day took one extra roll? And so by the end of the day... The supermarket shelves are empty. Okay, that was possible. Could it be that actually one person went in and yes, they did buy loads and loads of packets? Because actually, they look after four elderly grandparents. And actually, they're really worried about what's going to happen. Maybe it was someone who actually went in and they wanted to buy as much as they could and sell it on eBay. Okay, how did you create a happiness story there? Ah, you know what? What must be going on in their life?

• 23:47Rangan Chatterjee?

  Maybe they really don't have any money. Maybe they are so desperate, they don't feel they've got any opportunities in life. And actually, this is an opportunity for them that they've seen to make a bit of money. You know what I've realised? When it comes to most bits of friction in our life, the truth actually doesn't matter, Jay, for your happiness. The truth doesn't matter. Write a happiness story that works for you. And this is something I try my best to do. It's probably the thing that's had the most impact on my feeling of contentment. Is that every day if I get a bit of social friction, let's say someone leaves a negative comment on my social media, for example, right? Instead of wishing it was other than the way it was, oh, I can't believe they acted like that.

• 24:29Rangan Chatterjee?

  It's like, ah, okay, let me go through a process here, you know? Number one, is there any truth to this? Ah, okay, yeah, there's a bit of truth here. I can learn here. I've been given an opportunity to learn. If there's no truth here, oh, well, why is this bothering me? And it's like putting the mirror up and instead of looking out there, it's like, what is being triggered within me? Is it my insecurity? Is it my need to be liked and loved? You know, what is it? Because then you start to take control of the situation. Do you know what I mean? It's, I think it's, I think it's, you can rewrite a story on anything. And I'll tell you, when this was really brought home to me, Jay, have you heard of Edith Eager? Yeah, I don't know if you've interviewed either. If you haven't, you absolutely should. You would absolutely love talking to her.

• 25:13Rangan Chatterjee?

  But Edith came on to my podcast last year. At the time, she was 93 years old. I think about that conversation pretty much every single day. It had such an impact on me. When Edith was 16 years old, living in Eastern Europe, she was getting ready that evening. She was going to go on a date with her boyfriend. There was a knock on the door. And before she knew it, her and her sister and her parents were on a train to Auschwitz. She gets to Auschwitz. Within two hours of getting there, her parents are murdered.

• 25:44Rangan Chatterjee?

  She's there with her sister. She doesn't know what's, what's going on, what's happening.

• 25:49Rangan Chatterjee?

  And then later that day, she had to dance, right? She had to dance for some of the prison guards there. And the last thing her mum said to her was, Edith, nobody can take away from you what you put inside your mind. So the first thing she told me was, when I was dancing, I wasn't dancing in Auschwitz. I was dancing in Budapest Opera House. I was dancing, there was a full orchestra there, the crowds were there, that's what I was dancing. So that's the first lesson I learnt for her, that you can create a story in your mind. And then she told me, Dr. Chastity, when I was in Auschwitz, I wasn't a prisoner, the prison guards were prisoners, they weren't living their life, I was free in my mind. And it, and it just went on and on.

• 26:34Rangan Chatterjee?

  And the words I think about every day, Jay, are when she said to me, Rangan, listen, I have lived through Auschwitz, but I can tell you the greatest prison is the prison you create inside your own mind. And I thought, okay, if Edith Eager can write a different story about events, a happiness story, if you will, about events in the hell of Auschwitz, then I'm pretty sure I can reframe most of the small frictions in my own life. And it's, uh, it's, it's been so powerful for me, Jay, it really has. I mean, do you ever, you know, how do you deal with friction?

• 27:17Rangan Chatterjee?

  Is that something you try and apply in your own life, or, or how do you see it?

• 27:20Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I mean, I just, everything you just shared right now, and I had come across Edith Eager's story, and I, I didn't realise you interviewed her, which is, which is fantastic, and so phenomenal to hear about your experience with her. Everything you just said, I am fully aligned with, and I don't think you could have picked a better example, because to share it from someone who has been through the worst of the worst of the worst. And for that person to be able to create a reframe at that time, gives us all an opportunity to realise how powerful it is. And so I am fully with you, like fully aligned, fully in agreement with you. And in my own small way, in my life, I do the same thing.

• 28:04Jay Shetty?

  And I, I think when we look at our life as a story, as opposed to a checklist, or as opposed to a hit list, or as opposed to a list of goals, right? Like, it's a very different approach. When you see your life as a list of goals, and if you don't reach them, you don't feel good about yourself, you're missing the story, right? If you look at all the people who've achieved goals that we admire, they all got there because they lived a story. They didn't live a goal, they didn't live a journey to a goal. And so I do it all the time as well. I'm constantly reframing my experience of life.

• 28:48Jay Shetty?

  And what you said is so true, that there, in one sense, there is no truth, in one sense, to any of our stories and journeys, because what is objectively the truth is just a perception.

• 29:02Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah, I mean, I think you'll like this one, Jake, because I know you're a football fan, or I should say soccer fan, as I'm on your show. But they, they did this study, right? They look, they were talking to football fans, same incident, right? Everyone can see the incidents. And they interviewed both sets of fans on different sides. What happens? Completely different version of reality over the same incident, right? Think about any, I guess, marriage or two partners, right? When they have a disagreement, there are two versions of reality, right? You know, it depends on which side of the table you're sitting on determines your reality. And I've learned actually, and it sounds quite controversial, that for your happiness...

• 29:47Rangan Chatterjee?

  I think sometimes the truth doesn't matter. It's the spin you put on it. You can put a spin on it that's going to make you feel disempowered and a victim. And look, I want to be respectful. I understand there are some pretty horrendous things that happen in life to people. I understand that. And sometimes it's harder than in other times. But this is something you can get better at. You can always put a new story on it. And what happens then, Jay, is that every day becomes a school day, right? Every day you're being given, you're being gifted opportunities by the world around you to learn something about yourself. And a tip maybe for your audience, if they think, okay, this is quite difficult, right? You know, someone's done this and I don't like

• 30:30Rangan Chatterjee?

  it. Something that I find really helpful is this idea that if I was that other person, I'd be doing exactly the same. And what I mean when I say that is if I were that other person with their childhood, with their childhood experiences, with their parents, with the bullying they received at school, with the boss that they had, if I were them, I would absolutely be making the same decisions as them.

• 31:01Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 31:02Rangan Chatterjee?

  And I honestly feel that if we don't think we would, you know, I invite people to consider maybe it's our ego talking because they made the decisions. That's their version of reality. And I find that gives me this ability to be compassionate, much more compassionate to every single person that I meet, whether I agree with them or not. And Jay, look at the state of the world at the moment, right? It's seemingly pretty divided. Certainly online, it seems pretty divided. And I think this approach not only makes us feel better, but I think when we can exercise this compassion to everyone, even people we disagree with.

• 31:41Rangan Chatterjee?

  I think that's what's going to make the world a much, much better and happier place.

• 31:45Jay Shetty?

  Definitely. And you reminded me of that. I'm sure you remember that famous Prince William meme, where he's holding up his fingers like this. And so he's actually saying, I think he's like, number three. And if you look at it from the other angle, it looks like he's putting his middle finger up. And, and it's like these two pictures that are put next to each other. And one of them looks like he's putting his middle finger up to the press. But actually, when you see it from another angle, he's putting three. And, and he obviously means something else by that. And so I, I love that when we're talking about contentment, that makes a lot of sense. Let's shift to alignment. I, I really like the way you defined alignment. You said, feeling aligned means that the person you want to be,

• 32:25Jay Shetty?

  and the person you are actually being out there in the world are one in the same. And I remember a very beautiful thought by Gandhi, whenever I think about alignment. And I believe he said that when you experience peace and harmony, when what you think, what you say, and what you do are aligned. And whenever I think about that, or whenever I share that teaching, I find that most people think something, but say something else. We say one thing, but then we do a completely different thing. And so we're living in this very divided world, even inside of ourselves, because it's completely disconnected. How do we start creating a more aligned life? Because

• 33:10Jay Shetty?

  often we're scared of saying what we think, and we're even more scared of doing what we say. And then we're worried about what everyone else thinks of all of that. So alignment becomes a really big challenge. Walk us through that for a bit.

• 33:23Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah, I mean, the first thing to say, it's not going to be super easy in the sense that it's not something you can just listen to us having a conversation, and then immediately afterwards go, okay, cool. Right. Now I'm going to go and act aligned in the world. No, this is a process. It's a very fun process, but it's a process nonetheless. So. You know, alignment, this idea that our inner values and our external actions are matching up, whatever that is. And the reason, I guess, I'm so passionate about this, Jay, is I've really, this is something like I've really struggled with pretty much my entire life. I feel that what I'm really trying to do these days is become more and more aligned and actually to really tune into who I actually am, which sounds like the easiest thing in

• 34:07Rangan Chatterjee?

  the world to do. But actually, for many of us, it's one of the hardest things because since we were kids, we started to do things to gain the approval of others. But I know for me, for much of my life, I only felt that I was worthy of love and acceptance if I achieved, if I was successful. And I think for me, while I know a lot of it comes down to my upbringing, and you know, I love my parents to bits. I think they did, I'd like to think they did a pretty good job with bringing me up. But there were some things, again, there's two versions of reality, right? I remember, and I think there's something in the immigrant mentality here. I don't know if this echoes your experience or not,

• 34:49Rangan Chatterjee?

  but if I came back from school with 19 out of 20 and something, my mom would say, well, why didn't you get 20? If I came back with 99%, my mom would say, well, yeah, why didn't you get 100%? And I didn't realize it at the time, but I took on this perception that I'm only loved and really seen and valued when I win and get top marks. And that's very toxic, because on the outside, you can appear quite successful. You can appear as though you're achieving and doing things. But on the inside, you know, there's nothing, there's a real deep insecurity. I've had that for much of my life, I think, you know, external success looks good, but on the inside, you know, you don't feel good. And

• 35:34Rangan Chatterjee?

  so you go to what I call these junk happiness habits, whether that be, you know, drinking or gambling, or, you know, these days, Instagram, potentially overusing it and this sort of stuff. So for me, the process of alignment started with recognizing why I behave the way that I do. And it was a very rewarding process. It's taken a bit of time, but this is not one hit, Jay, that people are going to just think, oh, I need to do this, and now I can. The first step in any change is awareness. So even if someone's listening to this conversation and going, Yeah, you know what? I'm not living in a lined life like I'm, I'm not being the person out there who I really am. Okay, that is progress.

• 36:16Rangan Chatterjee?

  Okay, you may want more, but that is a good start. At least now you know, and then you can work on the next stage. So there's many ways in which people can do this. I think doing some sort of values exercise is really, really helpful. I know we spoke about this when you came on my show, you've done a great job of this in your own book, Jay, of talking about values. In Happy Mind, Happy Life, there are some simple exercises to help people understand what are your values? Can you choose three values from this long list? And, you know, maybe once a week you reassess, you go, yeah, I think that is, that doesn't fit quite right, I'm going to tweak it. Right, so you can keep tweaking until you really understand what these values are.

• 37:01Rangan Chatterjee?

  And then you can, you know, look at your life and go, how much of the time am I living in accordance with these values? And it's so simple, but just the act of writing it down and reassessing is really, really powerful. You start to make subtle shifts when you do that. So I think that's an important piece. Around alignment also, and I'm very, very interested in, in your thoughts on this as well, Jay. This whole idea of core happiness, which has these three components, is basically, I was trying to come up with a model for happiness that actually people find genuinely practical and useful. Not like a lofty concept, but can I come up with a model that holds true in every single

• 37:46Rangan Chatterjee?

  situation? And I, you know, I think I cracked it with this model. Of course, I welcome hearing where I may not have got it quite right, but I really think that this encompasses this deep sense of happiness, these three components, contentment, control and alignment. And then I remember thinking, what about meaning and purpose? Because we keep hearing, and of course, you know, your, your show is called On Purpose, you talk a lot about purpose. I thought, well, where does meaning and purpose fit in here? Because a lot of people these days say, we shouldn't be chasing happiness, we should be chasing meaning. I've spent weeks trying to solve this and the, the way I came down on it, what I think

• 38:27Rangan Chatterjee?

  underpins this altogether is that meaning and purpose comes with alignment. So.

• 38:35Rangan Chatterjee?

  Meaning and purpose is important, right? It's a necessary ingredient for happiness. But I don't think it's happiness in and of itself. And the reason I say that is because, let's say, this could be you or me, for example, or it could be someone listening. Let's say you have a job that gives you meaning and purpose and you love it and it's helping the world, it really nourishes you. Okay, great, you've got meaning, but maybe you're working too hard, you're getting back too late each night, maybe you're not spending time nourishing the important relationships in your life. Sure, you've got meaning, but you don't have core happiness. And then you could take it to another extreme.

• 39:16Rangan Chatterjee?

  Let's say in World War II, you might make the case that a soldier fighting against the Nazis was living a meaningful life. But I'm not necessarily sure you could say that they were happy. So I'm all for meaning and purpose, but I think it comes under the alignment lag of the core happiness model, the core happiness stool.

• 39:38Jay Shetty?

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• 40:19Jay Shetty?

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• 41:04Jay Shetty?

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• 41:47Jay Shetty?

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• 42:05Rangan Chatterjee?

  And then I think it also takes the pressure off people. Jay, I'm sure you get messages like this, but people often say that, you know, yeah, I wanna find my, I wanna find my purpose, but I don't know where to start. You know, what is my purpose? And they see people on, online and think, oh man, they've got their purpose, I don't. You know, have you heard of the Japanese concept of ikigai?

• 42:26Jay Shetty?

  Yes, it's beautiful.

• 42:27Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah, it really is beautiful. And I remember in, in my second book, The Stress Solution, I, I wrote about it, this idea that ikigai is these four things, you know, something, you know, we should be looking to try and find something that we're good at, that we enjoy doing, that the world needs and that also makes money. And I thought, what a beautiful concept, I want some ikigai in my life. And then I remember, Jay, I was giving a talk in London. And I remember it so well because at the end of the talk, we were doing Q and A. And you know, a young lady at the back put her hand up and she said, Dr. Chas, I'm an 18 year old Japanese student living in London. And I grew up with this concept of Ikigai.

• 43:11Rangan Chatterjee?

  And frankly, I found it demotivating and it really put me off. It seemed like a too lofty bar for me to meet. And that really hit me, Jay. I thought, yeah, that's interesting. These nice ideas for some people, they're very off putting. I think that's where alignment and values can be really helpful because if you're struggling to find your meaning and purpose, right? I would say focus on your values. So let's say you hate your job. Let's say you work in a call center. You don't like it, but that pays you money and it helps you feed your family and put a roof over your head. And you hear this stuff about meaning and purpose. I say, okay, focus on values. If one of your values is kindness, let's say, then if you get up in the morning and

• 43:54Rangan Chatterjee?

  you're kind to your partner, you get a coffee on the way to work and you're kind to the barista, you get on the bus and you're kind to the bus driver. And whilst you're at work, you're kind to your work colleagues, then you're living a life of meaning. That is a meaningful life. You may not love your job at the moment, but the more you act in alignment, that meaning, that purpose is going to come as a byproduct. So like, that's where I think meaning and purpose kind of fits into this core happiness idea. I mean, did that make sense? You know, do you have any thoughts on that? Do you agree? You know, I'm, I'm, I really welcome challenging this still because I kind of think it holds true in every situation, but you know, I'd love to know your view.

• 44:38Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I mean, my, my honest take is I think that a lot of these discussions can be explained just through different terms and different language used by different people for words that appeal in different ways. So there are certain words that when you unpack them, I can see that we're trying to say the same thing. But you may use certain words that I don't use. And this is exactly what you were saying before, that if I don't take the time to listen, to understand and to...

• 45:18Jay Shetty?

  Take a moment of stillness to say, well, let me understand what Rangan is really trying to say, even though we use different words, we may actually find that we're trying to say the same thing, whereas if I simply look at the words, I may say, I disagree with you completely. I think you're, I think you're wrong and I have another opinion. And so I think we have to be so careful with language, because words mean so, so many different things to so many different people. And it's why I always say to people that we need more faces and voices in the world of health and wellness, or in any field for that matter, because everyone needs to hear from a diverse set of voices and faces. Everyone is not going

• 46:01Jay Shetty?

  to connect to my language, and that's okay. And everyone's not going to connect to your language, and that's okay, because there have been times where I've heard a piece of wisdom, one time, twice, three times, four times, I hear it the ninth time from some random person. But the way they said it, the penny dropped and it hit me like, it just hit me. And I was like, but I've been hearing that since I was a kid. But hearing it from that person at that time, at that voice, in that moment, that had an impact on me. And so I've become of the belief that, I love the word alignment. I think it's fantastic. And I would say that a lot, an aligned life is a purposeful life.

• 46:42Rangan Chatterjee?

  Agreed.

• 46:42Jay Shetty?

  And that you are spot on when you say that if we can start living and practicing just one of our values, that that will grow into a purposeful life. And so, so we're in alignment.

• 46:55Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah.

• 46:55Jay Shetty?

  We're in alignment. And, and I'm very content with the language that you use is different to me, but that we are of the same ethos and spirit in what we're trying to share.

• 47:06Rangan Chatterjee?

  But of course, a language will be different because we're different people, right? We've had different experiences. You've gone off to be a monk. You know, that's something that in my head, I think, well, wouldn't that be incredible to go and do that? Although I can't see that happening anytime soon, especially being married and having two young kids who need me. But You will be informed by your life experience. I've been a medical doctor for nearly 21 years now, seeing tens of thousands of patients. My view to this topic of happiness is informed by the tens of thousands of patients I've seen and their struggles. Right. So we're going to say it differently and going, you know, putting together alignment and what you asked me right at the start, which is what are the,

• 47:49Rangan Chatterjee?

  you know, why is it we struggle so much with happiness and this idea of happiness? Another exercise that I think is really useful for people that also helps them be more aligned. It's a two part exercise, right? I love it. And I don't know if you want to try it on yourself, actually. Yeah, sure. Are you up for trying it?

• 48:07Jay Shetty?

  Okay, so the first. Yeah, let's do it. Let's do it.

• 48:09Rangan Chatterjee?

  The first part of the exercise is write down, or you can just tell me three things that if you did them each week, would give you a deep sense of happiness.

• 48:21Jay Shetty?

  Okay, yeah. So I'm not going to say stuff I already do. So just to clarify for everyone, because I already meditate and exercise. I'm not going to include those because they would be, they are huge ones for my happiness. I'd say one of the biggest things is doing something fun and playful with my wife. So whether that's going to an escape room or whether that's going to an assault course or like some sort of like fun, outdoor activity with my wife brings me a lot of happiness. So that's one of them.

• 48:49Rangan Chatterjee?

  Okay.

• 48:50Jay Shetty?

  I'd say another one is spending time outdoors in nature, in the sun. I'm going on a hike on Saturday, but that is something that I know if I did more of, I'd be, that would increase my happiness. And the third one would be spending even more time reading. I love reading and making notes and learning and I do plenty of it. But I know I could always do more. So those would be my three.

• 49:12Rangan Chatterjee?

  Okay. So there's three things there. Okay. Now, the second part of the exercise is called Write Your Happy Ending. So fast forward to the end of your life, imagine you're on your deathbeds. Looking back on your life, what are three things you will want to have done?

• 49:26Jay Shetty?

  So then it comes to, I would say, you know, serving as many people as possible through the work that I do right now, that's, that's number one. The second one would be to have felt that I was able to purify my heart and my mind of ego, of envy, of jealousy, of, of any impurities that lie in my mind and heart, that would be my second one. And, and my third one would be that I was able to express compassion towards all the pain I saw and not create more pain.

• 50:08Rangan Chatterjee?

  I mean, that's lovely. So wonderful to hear. Now, the, the next part is you go back now to your first three answers. And the idea for people is, okay, if you do those three things that you've stated initially weekly, will that get you to the happy ending that you have already said that you want? And I've done it with so many people and they find it really useful because, you know, for example, you know, you've already mentioned you meditate and exercise, you want to do something fun and playful with your wife, spend time outdoors in nature and reading. Now, if you do those things, let's say those five things every week, does that get you to that happy ending where you've served others, where you've purified your mind of

• 50:53Rangan Chatterjee?

  ego and you've managed to practice compassion, you know, do you see those things as aligned?

• 50:58Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, definitely. I mean, especially, and, and now, and that's why it's useful doing the activity with sometimes things that I already do. Yes, I, I think that a lot of those elements of like personal time for meditation and practice, a lot of the work around the reading and study that I do, which is really powerful for cleansing the impurities within the heart. And, and even that play is so integral because that playfulness is what keeps it fun and exciting. And so absolutely, yes, there are lots of links in between.

• 51:32Rangan Chatterjee?

  Many people, when they do that exercise, find that they're not aligned at all. Like at the end of the life, they say, yeah, I want to have spent time with my friends and family, I want to have engaged in passions that mean the world to me. They say all kinds of things. And then you look at the three happiness habits and they don't match up at all.

• 51:52Jay Shetty?

  It's a fantastic exercise. That is a brilliant exercise.

• 51:55Rangan Chatterjee?

  And it's not about making people feel bad. It's about bringing awareness to that intention. Like if you say you value your friends and family, yet you're too busy working, let's say, to find time for them. Okay, that's okay, but you need to start making a small shift there because you ain't going to get to that happy ending otherwise. And so you know what I'm about, Jay? It's always about how can I simplify a message, simplify an exercise that people can actually do, reiterate, and hopefully result on them living, I guess, a more intentional and a happier life.

• 52:29Jay Shetty?

  Rangan, the reason why I love that activity and exercise, like it's brilliant, by the way. It's absolutely fantastic. And I think everyone on the, everyone who's listening and watching right now, not only should go and get the book, because the book is full of lots more activities and exercises like this one, but do this one with a friend this weekend. Because what you've explained so beautifully there is the difference between circumstantial and existential happiness. And so there are a lot of things we do every day because circumstantially, situationally, they make us feel better. But the existential core happiness, which as you describe is alignment, contentment, and control, that can only be measured when

• 53:13Jay Shetty?

  you look at the gravity of a moment like death. And when you're doing that in this activity, that's what you're putting it under a microscope and going, well, how is this affecting your existence as opposed to your circumstance, right? And that in and of itself is a really fascinating way of thinking. And I know that I don't do that activity, but I think about those questions very often. And for me, for so long, I always ask myself that. I'll sit there and I'll go, how is this going to make me feel when I'm dying? Will I regret doing this or not doing this? And everything that I'm doing on a daily basis and the commitments I make and the priorities I make are all dedicated to that purpose that I've committed to.

• 53:58Jay Shetty?

  Because I know that that's what brings me joy. And there are a lot of sacrifices with that. And there are a lot of things that you forego for that. But I realized that health was so integral to your purpose, no matter what it is, that that's something you can't sacrifice in the pursuit of any alignment or contentment you chase. Because if you're not healthy, then all of it falls apart. So, you know, I really love that activity and I'm so grateful you put that and many others in the book.

• 54:24Rangan Chatterjee?

  Yeah, thanks. And, you know, it's something that I use myself, you know. I I'm keen to, I don't want people to feel that I haven't got it yet. I'm not there yet, you know, I'm not aligned. That's okay, right? That is absolutely okay. I would guess by anyone who's listening to your podcast, Jay, I guess naturally would feel drawn to this sort of content. Anyway, they're wanting to live a more intentional, a more purposeful life, right? So they're already that way inclined. And it's not this thing, like I said, it's not this destination that you get to. It's a constant process of tweaking and then society, life will pull you away. You know, I definitely have times where I work too hard and I'm not as present as I might want to be.

• 55:07Rangan Chatterjee?

  Right? You know, just because I know what I should be doing, it doesn't mean I'm not human and I'm not susceptible to the same mistakes that many of us make. Jay, I've never felt this calm and good and at peace with myself and my life. Like when I last spoke to you a few years ago in LA, you know, about the Stress Solution book,

• 55:33Rangan Chatterjee?

  I was a different person, like I really was. It was a different version of me. I'm just a lot more content these days. I've done a lot of work to rid myself of ego and the need for external validation. I've also really let go of this idea that I need to be right. I think for much of my life, I defined myself, are you right? Are you winning? And letting go of that has just made me happier. Like, I'm no longer attached to being right. I'm attached to learning. I wouldn't even call it attached. I'm committed to learning. Right? Every day, any friction that comes in my life, anyone that sends me a rude email, it's all an opportunity for me to go in, but to go, what can I learn here?

• 56:17Rangan Chatterjee?

  What can I learn about myself? How can I be compassionate about that other person? And it keeps life fun and interesting. Right? It really does. And yes, I feel karma and content, but all kinds of little niggles and things that, you know, I used to get, they're just sort of going because there's less emotional tension in my body.

• 56:38Jay Shetty?

  I love that, Rangan. And that's, and by the way, on a personal level, that's just really beautiful to hear. I mean, you know, I think hearing that that's the journey you've been on in the last few years, and that's what's brought this book about is really beautiful. And I want everyone to know, you know, we just scratched the surface today, but Rangan goes on to talk about a ton of great habits in this book, eliminating change, treating yourself with respect, making time stand still, seeking out friction, talking to strangers, treat your phone like a person, having maskless conversations, which I love the sound of that one, go on holiday every day, give yourself away. These are beautiful, beautiful breakdowns in each and every chapter with exercises, with things to reflect on and think about.

• 57:21Jay Shetty?

  And Rangan, I want to congratulate you on writing this beautiful book, Happy Mind, Happy Life, 10 Simple Ways to Feel Great Every Day. I want to ask you your final five, which are our rapid fire, fast five round. So these questions have to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum. Let's go. Are you ready?

• 57:42Rangan Chatterjee?

  I'm ready, feeding, trying to maintain that level of calm and contentment whilst I, whilst I get ready.

• 57:47Jay Shetty?

  All right, great. All right, here we go. So here are your final five. Question number one, what's the best happiness advice you've ever received, heard or given?

• 57:57Rangan Chatterjee?

  Spend time with friends and family.

• 57:59Jay Shetty?

  Second question, what is the worst piece of happiness advice you've ever received, heard or given?

• 58:05Rangan Chatterjee?

  Do what makes you feel good in the moment.

• 58:10Jay Shetty?

  Fascinating. All right. Question number three. What is something that you used to value that you don't value anymore?

• 58:17Rangan Chatterjee?

  An attachment to being right.

• 58:19Jay Shetty?

  Question number four. What is the kindest thing someone has done for you recently?

• 58:24Rangan Chatterjee?

  Just my daughter coming back from school, giving me a big hug, big smile, saying, I love you daddy. I don't think anything makes me feel as good as that. And that was super kind.

• 58:34Jay Shetty?

  I love that. I love that. All right. Question number five. If you could create one habit that everyone had to do every single day in the world, what would that habit be?

• 58:44Rangan Chatterjee?

  No question. A daily practice of solitude.

• 58:48Jay Shetty?

  Beautiful. Everyone, that is Dr. Rangan Chatterjee. The book is called Happy Mind, Happy Life. It is out now. When you hear this podcast, make sure you go and grab your copy. Rangan, it has been a joy talking to you. I look forward to being in person with you again. I congratulate you on all the self-work you've done internally, it sounds like, but also the amazing work you're putting out there into the world. And I appreciate you, man. And I'm so glad that we finally got to do this and get together again. So thank you for your time and thank you for your energy. If you're watching or listening, make sure you tag me and Rangan on Instagram, on Twitter, on Facebook, any platform you're using. We love to see what you're learning, what you're taking away. There were so many great pieces of wisdom, nuggets of advice and insight today.

• 59:33Jay Shetty?

  And I want to make sure that we see those so we know what you're taking away. Thank you so much for listening to On Purpose. I'll see you again next time.

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