#2316 - Cameron Hanes

Cameron Hanes is a master bowhunter, outdoorsman, elite athlete, author, and a host of the podcasts “Keep Hammering Collective," and "Sh*t Talkers Weekly." His new book, "Undeniable: How to Reach the Top and Stay There," will be released on May 6. www.cameronhanes.com This video is sponsored by BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com/JRE Don’t miss out on all the action - Download the DraftKings app today! Sign-up using dkng.co/rogan or with my promo code ROGAN. GAMBLING PROBLEM? CALL 1-800-GAMBLER, (800) 327-5050 or visit gamblinghelplinema.org (MA). Call 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY). Please Gamble Responsibly. 888-789-7777/visit ccpg.org (CT), or visit www.mdgamblinghelp.org (MD). 21+ and present in most states. (18+ DC/KY/NH/WY). Void in ONT/OR/NH. Eligibility restrictions apply. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino & Resort (KS). 1 per new customer. $5+ first-time bet req. Max. $200 issued as non-withdrawable Bonus Bets that expire in 7 days (168 hours). Stake removed from payout. Terms: sportsbook.draftkings.com/promos. Ends 5/18/25 at 11:59 PM ET. Sponsored by DK. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience.

• 0:05Speaker 01

  Training by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

• 0:13Joe Rogan?

  How's it going on?

• 0:14Speaker 03

  Not much. Hello, Joe Rogan.

• 0:15Joe Rogan?

  Hello, Cameron Ains.

• 0:17Speaker 03

  Welcome to the podcast.

• 0:18Joe Rogan?

  Thank you. This is my first time trying one of these new energy drinks that Black Rifle came out. Have you tried them? They're good?

• 0:24Speaker 03

  I have.

• 0:24Joe Rogan?

  They're legit?

• 0:25Speaker 03

  Really good.

• 0:25Joe Rogan?

  Everything they do is legit.

• 0:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, really good.

• 0:30Joe Rogan?

  Mango.

• 0:31Speaker 03

  What do you think?

• 0:31Joe Rogan?

  So this is the part of the podcast where I try to talk you out of running a 250-mile race with a broken foot, you fucking maniac.

• 0:38Speaker 03

  We're talking about my book.

• 0:41Speaker 03

  This is, the whole point of this was undeniable without.

• 0:45Joe Rogan?

  Well, you'll definitely be undeniable if you run 250 miles with a broken foot.

• 0:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's a...

• 0:52Joe Rogan?

  Why are you doing that? That seems like not a good idea. But what am I, a doctor?

• 0:57Speaker 03

  Okay, so, so, real talk. Let's just, we'll break it down. So, if I was a professional athlete in my prime.

• 1:04Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:05Speaker 03

  Right? It would obviously make sense to say, and I need to get surgery, my foot's broke, I can't perform, whatever. But since I'm, we know how old I am, almost 60, it's just like, there's no guarantees. I'm like, if I can fight this off and still, whatever, still perform, then I'm gonna do that.

• 1:25Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:27Speaker 03

  I can't afford to play the long game, can I?

• 1:30Joe Rogan?

  Fix your foot. It's like, I don't understand. Like, this is what I've always said with people with jiu-jitsu injuries, because I've had a bunch of surgeries.

• 1:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:38Joe Rogan?

  Just fix it. Just do it, because a day will be a week, will be a month, it'll happen so quick. Before you know it, it'll be six months, you're back in the gym. Just do it. That's what I always tell everybody. Just fix it.

• 1:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:49Joe Rogan?

  I just bite the bullet, get the cer- like, there's certain things, like... Certain things I don't think you should get surgery for. Cause there's things that you could rehabilitate, there's, and there's sort of an, there's some doctors, I do, I want to be real careful about this, cause a lot of doctors are very cautious about when they're not to do surgery. But there's some doctors that are just a little too excited to cut people open and stitch them back together again.

• 2:12Speaker 03

  Well, it's how they make their money.

• 2:13Joe Rogan?

  It's how they make their money. And, you know, famously, I've talked about it too many times, but for people who haven't heard the story, my doctor told me for sure, you're gonna need shoulder surgery. You're gonna have to get so- shoulder surgery. It's just a matter of when, and if you put it off, it'll probably get worse. I have zero problem with that shoulder now. I got stem cells in it from Roddy McGee in Vegas, you went with me to that place. Went back in six months, he's like, the tear is completely gone. So I could have gone under the knife and maybe he would have done a great job and fix it. Apparently, he did the Lakers and a bunch of pro athletes and everything like that, but they don't entertain the possibility that there's other ways to fix things.

• 2:53Joe Rogan?

  But when it comes to broken bones and torn ligaments, like if your ligaments, like I have a bunch of friends who have ACL tears, complete ACL tears, no ACL, and they still do jujitsu. I'm like, dude, you're just grinding up your meniscus, this shit that you're gonna need for the rest of your life. And take it from me, a 57-year-old man who loves jujitsu, you can't do that. You need that stuff. Like, that stuff's gonna go away and then it'll be bone on bone, and then you're gonna be like in agony all the time.

• 3:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:20Speaker 03

  Theoretically.

• 3:21Joe Rogan?

  Theoretically. Just get it fixed. I always say, just get it fixed, get it fixed. Before you know it, it'll be fixed.

• 3:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, but I keep thinking about, so if I would have done it, so I, I broke it last June, but all the things I did from last June to now, I've got accomplished, still, still got it done. Made it happen, yeah, it hasn't been that fun.

• 3:39Joe Rogan?

  Okay, don't fix it ever. Just live with a broken foot forever. That's retarded. It doesn't make any sense. It makes zero sense.

• 3:44Speaker 03

  This is reverse psychology, isn't it? Good, yeah, no, don't do it.

• 3:48Joe Rogan?

  Good job, break the other one too, so it balances out. That's the problem, is that you only have one broken foot. If you just take a hammer to your, to your right foot, or your left foot, then you'll have no problems.

• 3:58Speaker 03

  Well, we'll, we'll know.

• 4:00Joe Rogan?

  Well, you're, I'm sure you're gonna get through it. I'm positive you're gonna get through it, but it's just like, why are you doing that to yourself?

• 4:06Speaker 03

  Next Monday at 5 a.m., 250 miles.

• 4:09Joe Rogan?

  Which one is that? What's the race called?

• 4:11Speaker 03

  And your mark is set, go. Uh, Cogadona 250.

• 4:14Joe Rogan?

  Where is it? Is it elevation?

• 4:16Speaker 03

  It's Arizona, so it goes from, I think, Black Canyon City to Flagstaff.

• 4:21Joe Rogan?

  Is it flat, the whole way, or is it?

• 4:23Speaker 03

  Forty thousand.

• 4:24Joe Rogan?

  Oh, forty thousand feet, nothing.

• 4:26Speaker 03

  Or maybe thirty thousand, I don't know. Lot of, lot of, lot of climbing.

• 4:29Joe Rogan?

  Just a tiny amount. Oh, look, fucking mountains.

• 4:33Speaker 03

  No, there's lots of mountains. Is that the, yeah, it's right there, Cogadona 250.

• 4:37Joe Rogan?

  Bro, that's so ridiculous.

• 4:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, it looks beautiful, though.

• 4:40Joe Rogan?

  That's so ridiculous, you're gonna do that with a broken foot.

• 4:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:43Joe Rogan?

  So, after you do that, here's the next logic. Well, if I could do 250 miles, I can make it through elk season. And then, yeah, you're not gonna get it fixed.

• 4:51Speaker 03

  I just did it with a broken foot in elk season.

• 4:53Joe Rogan?

  I know, that's what I'm saying. You're not gonna fix it. You're not gonna fix it.

• 4:58Speaker 03

  Well, if I get backed into a corner and I can't walk?

• 5:02Joe Rogan?

  Oh, boy. But then the problem is, what if you've done permanent damage? Like, didn't you say your hamstring's bothering you now because you comp- yeah.

• 5:08Speaker 03

  This, this whole leg, but, yeah.

• 5:10Joe Rogan?

  And you're gonna run 250 miles with a fucked up hamstring. Great idea.

• 5:15Joe Rogan?

  That's not gonna fuck it up worse.

• 5:16Speaker 03

  This, this is supposed to be, this is supposed to be a feel-good discussion. I thought friends BSing, right? Everybody has a good time here. The most influential man in the world, Time Magazine, should have been.

• 5:30Joe Rogan?

  No, Meghan Markle beat me, I think.

• 5:32Speaker 03

  How, how, if it's, if it's most influential, there, there should be, there's no debate. Nobody's even in the same category as you.

• 5:41Joe Rogan?

  I don't know, I don't think about it. I try not to, it's a little complicated.

• 5:45Speaker 03

  I'm thinking about it, though.

• 5:45Joe Rogan?

  I really shouldn't be influential.

• 5:49Joe Rogan?

  I don't think hard enough about the consequences of it.

• 5:51Speaker 03

  Oh, you say that all the time, but man, you, you have so many good conversations, and it's like, it's definitely changed. Here's what's crazy is- You know, mainstream media with all the money that the advertisers had to pay or whatever. It's like that was, that was their thing. Now that feels like that money's coming to the podcast realm because of you. I mean, you've shown the power of podcasts and I think all the podcast hosts are benefiting from that.

• 6:16Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think we are all benefiting from all of our work. I mean, I don't think it's me. I'm, you know, I just have been doing it longer than most, you know, but there's guys like Corolla and a few other guys that have been doing it longer than me. You know, it's just, podcasting is just better because there's less people involved. It's really that simple. The problem with stuff like Fox News and CNN is there's too many people involved and too many interests, right? You have the interests of the network. You have the interests of the censors. You have a bunch of people that, you know, don't want you talking about certain things or want you talking about certain other things. Like they want you to push certain narratives. There's too many people. And so it feels curated. And so when you're listening, it doesn't resonate.

• 6:59Joe Rogan?

  But when you listen to two people just shoot the shit, you're like, oh, I know what that's like. Like that make, that's like, if someone came over to your house and started talking like a CNN anchor, you'd be like, what the fuck is this guy doing in my house? Get him out of here. I can't relax. We're trying to have a glass of wine.

• 7:12Speaker 03

  How would he talk?

• 7:14Joe Rogan?

  What we, what we've learned today is that climate change is the most important. And you'd be like, oh God, get this guy out of the fucking house. Like, what are you saying?

• 7:22Speaker 03

  So Douglas Murray is gonna come over to my house, it sounds like?

• 7:25Joe Rogan?

  Have you ever been? Yeah, I mean, it's just, there's people that are professional talking heads. Do you know, like, there's, there's people that are professional sportscasters, you know, they talk like a sportscaster voice, like Howard Cosell.

• 7:39Speaker 03

  Radio DJ voice.

• 7:40Joe Rogan?

  Radio DJ voice. Yeah, exactly. Top 40 DJ voice. It's like, they're all the same. Coming up next, alright. You know, like that kind of weird thing that they do. Where you're used to it, it sounds professional, but it doesn't resonate with you. So it doesn't seem normal. When you hear people, whether it's you or me or Theo Vaughn or Andrew Schultz or whoever it is that's doing a podcast, they're just people talking, normal people talking to people and that's what people want. And if a normal person can talk to scientists and, you know, and say, what, what, how does that work? Why is it, what causes this? Like, what can I do to make this happen? What's, what's the best way to start your day? That kind of shit like.

• 8:21Joe Rogan?

  Then it makes sense to the people. If you're, if you hear some fucking weirdo that's talking in a way that doesn't make any sense and you know, won't bring up certain subjects and has guardrails and won't use certain language, it doesn't make sense to you. So you're not, it doesn't work as well. And also like they don't trust those people. Like if I tell you, oh, this Black Rifle Coffee drink is good. I'm not lying. I wouldn't lie if I was like, Evan, what the fuck is this? If I drank it, I was like, bro. We would call Evan up right now. We'd call him up on speakerphone too. This mango tastes like ass. You know what I mean? Probably not, but, but I'd tell him privately. But it's, but it wouldn't. You

• 9:04Joe Rogan?

  know what I'm saying? Like I know all their shit is great. Their coffee's great. Everything's great. It's like everything, all the ads we have. Like I had a call yesterday, one of these conference calls that I have, where I gotta go, no, no, not that one. No, we can't do that. It was like different ads. Like, what is it? No, no. Like I just, something that sounds like wrong to me. I'm not interested. I'm not, that might be a scam. This might be horse shit. What's the studies on this? Is it real? Like what do we, nah, no, no, no. Like, or, or yes. Oh yeah, I use that all the time. Let's do that. That's good. That's solid company. That's this. This is great.

• 9:44Joe Rogan?

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• 10:23Joe Rogan?

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• 12:33Joe Rogan?

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• 12:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, I wonder if, I don't even know how to word it, but people are so used to like the fake stuff. Like even, even if somebody says, if you talk about being transgender and say, oh, well, you know, this boy felt like a girl, whatever, it's like you're almost programmed to be like, oh. Hmm, okay.

• 12:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you're programmed to not have an opinion about it.

• 13:01Speaker 03

  Right, and so, and that, and, cause normally, how, as guys work, you talk, we talk about ready DJ voice, or the fake, or whatever, like, that's not how people talk. But guys can be around a certain group of people, and there'll be like, one guy, you'd be like, "That guy seemed off."

• 13:18Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 13:19Speaker 03

  "What the fuck's wrong with that guy?"

• 13:20Joe Rogan?

  Right, some guy will infiltrate your group.

• 13:22Speaker 03

  That's like a subtle little thing. That's not like the things we're talking about, like, the big things. That's like, this guys have these, this radar, and you're just like, "Who the fuck is this guy?"

• 13:32Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right, right.

• 13:34Speaker 03

  And then you go to the complete other realm where it's so preposterous. And we're supposed to be like, "Oh, okay."

• 13:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 13:42Speaker 03

  Hmm, that makes sense.

• 13:42Joe Rogan?

  I actually heard a psychologist discussing this, and he said that there's an issue with talking about things publicly, especially with social media, because there's so much backlash on social media whenever you hit any hot button topic. Immigration, politics, anything that's like a real, highly, hotly, contended topic. People will say things just so they don't get attacked. And they, they distort their opinions based on how much they think they're going to get attacked. So, all that social media stuff is super effective. People attacking people is super effective for people to like, "This is how transgender people in sports got through."

• 14:27Joe Rogan?

  The only way it got through is because people were calling people bigots.

• 14:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:30Joe Rogan?

  Every parent, every fucking parent who's not a complete psychopath, doesn't want their daughter wrestling with some boy who thinks he's a girl. That's crazy. Playing rugby with some boy who thinks he's a girl, that's crazy. Have a six foot six, fifty year old man who identifies as being seventeen year old girl. That's fucking crazy.

• 14:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:54Joe Rogan?

  But you can't say that's crazy, or your feed will be bombarded with a bunch of sociopaths attacking you for being transphobic.

• 15:03Speaker 03

  Or it'll be suppressed, or Instagram will be like, "Okay, you guess what? We don't like that opinion." Nobody's gonna see it.

• 15:08Joe Rogan?

  I think Instagram is doing less of that now, allegedly, supposedly. I know X is not interested in that at all. They're not suppressing that shit at all. You can talk all the shit you want about trans people in sports now because the reality is the general population, look, I don't care what you want to do. If you want to wear a dress, you want to be called Rhonda, go for it. Have fun. I'm, I'm a freedom person.

• 15:33Speaker 03

  Right.

• 15:34Joe Rogan?

  And I believe America is the land of the free and that, that includes doing dumb shit. That includes things that I don't agree with, but don't hurt me or anybody else. Go have fun.

• 15:43Speaker 03

  Right.

• 15:44Joe Rogan?

  But as soon as you start doing things like entering into women's bathrooms, entering into women's locker rooms and all you have to do is just say you're a guy.

• 15:58Joe Rogan?

  Now we're in crazy town.

• 15:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, what's going on?

• 15:59Joe Rogan?

  And if I can't say we're in crazy town, that's how all that stuff got through is because Twitter was complete nonsense. It was just a psyop. The whole thing was just a psyop. We all owe Elon Musk a huge debt. When he bought Twitter, he changed the conversations in the country because all of a sudden people were free.

• 16:20Speaker 03

  Could say what you want.

• 16:21Joe Rogan?

  You were free to say whatever you wanted.

• 16:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 16:23Joe Rogan?

  Before you couldn't say anything bad about Biden or the liberals or COVID vaccines or anything. You would be banned. You'd be banned.

• 16:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's, you know, that Elon coming, doing what he's done has cha- has definitely changed the world, right?

• 16:42Joe Rogan?

  Without a doubt.

• 16:42Speaker 03

  I mean, has, and how much credit does he deserve? Because he did not have to do that. I mean, he had more money than anybody. Why would he do, why would he put himself out there like that? Other than to make a positive change for humanity essentially?

• 16:57Joe Rogan?

  In talking with him, both publicly and privately, he was genuinely concerned that we were losing free speech. He was genuinely concerned that it was being hijacked. It was being hijacked under the guise of safety, safety. Like, we have to, we have to protect people. We have to protect marginalized people, like marginalized male perverts who want to wear dresses and pretend they're a girl and go in the bed. Literally, literally.

• 17:21Speaker 03

  Right.

• 17:21Joe Rogan?

  You know, and That's, that's dangerous with that, but it's also dangerous with everything else. It's also dangerous, like, if you're a person who's a progressive person who believes in gay rights, or, you know, any, any thing, welfare, universal basic, whatever it is. Imagine, living in a world where there's no free speech, but the Republicans are in control. Or, like, super religious conservative people are in control. Or, Muslims are in control. Let's imagine, like, the, the Muslim population in this country is expanding all the time. They've got Muslim-run cities now, they have call to prayer in certain cities in this country. Imagine that goes everywhere.

• 18:06Joe Rogan?

  They're in control of social media, and they institute Sharia law on social media, and they want to throw gay people off the roof. This is where it goes. Like, you gotta leave people the fuck alone. You gotta let them say whatever they want to say, and if you don't agree with them, don't follow them, or make an argument against it. It's really that simple.

• 18:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:23Joe Rogan?

  That's what America's supposed to be, and it wasn't that way for four fucking years.

• 18:27Speaker 03

  I know.

• 18:28Joe Rogan?

  During the Biden administration, the FBI was involved in Twitter. The, the government intelligence agencies were involved in Twitter. They were telling people to take down true information. And they were getting them to do it, and they were doing it.

• 18:43Speaker 03

  How crazy is that?

• 18:44Joe Rogan?

  Crazy. People should be up in arms that that took place. Like, the Hunter Biden laptop thing, you should be, you should be freaking out. How'd they get fifty-one former intelligence agencies to sign off, agents to sign off on something they knew was a lie? That's crazy!

• 19:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:01Joe Rogan?

  They just did it right in front of our face.

• 19:03Speaker 03

  And no repercussions?

• 19:04Joe Rogan?

  Nothing. Nothing.

• 19:06Speaker 03

  How does that, how does it happen? But then, also, how is there no repercussions?

• 19:10Joe Rogan?

  Well, what's really hilarious now, is now they're all getting grilled by even, like, liberal media is grilling these politicians, like, "Did you know Biden was out of his mind?" Like, "How, did you know?" Like, Elizabeth Warren was like, "He was sharp as a tack." "He was getting up for meetings."

• 19:27Speaker 03

  Never seen him better. I heard that too, it was like...

• 19:30Joe Rogan?

  Joe Scarborough! He was like, "This..." This is the best version of Biden I've ever seen.

• 19:34Speaker 03

  Yes, oh my.

• 19:35Joe Rogan?

  Like, you should be literally in jail. Such a liar. You almost like shifted the whole, imagine if Biden stayed in, they lied about that and then he's literally like a zombie for four more years. And whoever the hell was running the country for the last four years just continues to run it and then they just tighten up even further.

• 19:54Speaker 03

  Could you imagine?

• 19:55Joe Rogan?

  Cut down and Mark Andreessen was telling me about de-banking, which I didn't even know existed. Where people that had certain political donations and political persuasions, they would take their banking away. They did no crime. They just say, you can't bank here anymore. You gotta go find another bank. And there's only like a few banks. They're all owned by giant mega corporations. Like, what the fuck are you doing?

• 20:20Speaker 03

  Well, it's no, that kind of reminds me of what happened in Canada with the truckers.

• 20:25Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 20:25Speaker 03

  I mean, they froze their, they froze their bank accounts.

• 20:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 20:29Speaker 03

  Or people who donated to them.

• 20:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, people who donated to them got their bank accounts frozen.

• 20:33Speaker 03

  How insane.

• 20:34Joe Rogan?

  Insane, insane. And then that same party just won again. Good job, Canada.

• 20:40Speaker 03

  Oh my god. If they didn't have good bear hunting, I would never be, I would never go there.

• 20:46Joe Rogan?

  I do have to say, I offered to have that Pierre guy come on the podcast.

• 20:50Speaker 03

  Really?

• 20:50Joe Rogan?

  He didn't do it. Wouldn't do it. Thought it was too problematic. Or whatever. Jordan told me, I forget what he said, but they, they were telling him not to do it. Like, his advisors were telling him not to do it.

• 21:00Speaker 03

  What is, hey.

• 21:01Joe Rogan?

  Hey, dumbass.

• 21:02Speaker 03

  If they can't talk to you and have a conversation, hold up. It's not, you're not grilling, you're not attacking people.

• 21:07Joe Rogan?

  Of course not.

• 21:08Speaker 03

  This is like a safe, you know, the friend zone type thing. It's like, no. And I heard you talk about Kamala saying, just want to get to know her. Just want to talk to her.

• 21:16Joe Rogan?

  100%. I said, if there's certain things they didn't want to talk about, I don't need to talk about them.

• 21:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:21Joe Rogan?

  I don't care. I'm like, I could talk to you about fucking AI.

• 21:24Speaker 03

  You've never been the gotcha guy.

• 21:26Joe Rogan?

  This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. It's important that you take care of yourself physically and mentally. Because if you refuse to get help, you're not just hurting yourself. You're hurting the people around you. It can impact your family, friends, even your colleagues. And you know, mental health has come a long way. Despite all our progress, though, there's still a stigma. In a recent survey, 26% say they avoided seeking mental health support due to fear of judgment. This Mental Health Awareness Month, let's change that. I'm encouraging everyone to take care of their wellbeing, and you should too. Therapy is an excellent tool that everyone can benefit from.

• 22:06Joe Rogan?

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• 22:47Joe Rogan?

  That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P, dot com slash J-R-E. I don't, I'm not interested in that. No. I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings. If we have someone, if I disagree with someone, I just say I disagree with them. I'm not, I don't attack people. As I've gotten older and wiser in life, I want less conflict. I mean, sometimes you have to be able to disagree in a way that's forceful. But I don't want, I'm never insulting or attack people. Right. And especially this Pierre Polvet guy, because I don't know how to say his name. How do you say it?

• 23:22Joe Rogan?

  It's a weird way of saying it.

• 23:23Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 23:23Joe Rogan?

  Paul Levy. Um, I would just ask him questions like, what's wrong? What's wrong with Canada? Like, how did this happen? Why did it go this way?

• 23:31Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 23:31Joe Rogan?

  Uh, what can be done to reverse some of these things that have been put into place? Like, how did you feel about this? What, what would you have done differently?

• 23:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:39Joe Rogan?

  Real simple stuff.

• 23:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:41Joe Rogan?

  Real simple. I don't know anything about Canada's politics.

• 23:43Speaker 03

  Right.

• 23:43Joe Rogan?

  You know?

• 23:44Speaker 03

  It'd be interesting.

• 23:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 23:45Speaker 03

  I'd love to hear it.

• 23:46Joe Rogan?

  It would have been fun.

• 23:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:47Joe Rogan?

  Uh, but what, you know, people are just, and this is also why the attacking of people on social media is effective. Like, the same thing that keeps people from saying things because they're worried that they're going to be attacked also keeps people from talking to certain people because they're worried about they're being attacked.

• 24:04Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 24:05Joe Rogan?

  You know, they'll try to like, this is one of the things that I felt like Douglas Murray was doing when he was on the podcast was like trying to gatekeep who I have on. Like, why would you have this person on? Why would you? He never even listened to that guy, Daryl Cooper's podcast. Like, I would tell everybody, forget about the politics stuff. Listen to his stuff on Guyana. Listen to his stuff on Jim Jones. The Jim Jones series.

• 24:30Speaker 03

  And this is an hour.

• 24:31Joe Rogan?

  Fucking incredible.

• 24:32Speaker 03

  Doesn't he do like hours long discussions?

• 24:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Fear and Loathing in New Jerusalem is something like 30 hours long.

• 24:38Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 24:38Joe Rogan?

  Insane stuff. But he's a really thoughtful person and he delves into all the areas. Let's, you know, look at this from the, the perspective of the people who are in the cult. Look at it from Jim Jones's perspective. Look at it from the nation of Guyana where he moves there with his fucking cult and kills everybody with Kool-Aid.

• 24:58Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 24:59Joe Rogan?

  I don't even think it was Kool-Aid. I think it was like a bargain name. It was like some fake Kool-Aid.

• 25:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, we don't like Kool-Aid to sue us.

• 25:06Joe Rogan?

  People always say, drink the Kool-Aid, but I do Google that because I'm pretty sure it wasn't really Kool-Aid. It was something else.

• 25:12Speaker 03

  Great crush.

• 25:13Joe Rogan?

  Too expensive to kill everybody with top shelf Kool-Aid.

• 25:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's a lot of sugar you got to put in Kool-Aid. Remember when you used to make Kool-Aid? And it's like, what was it like? A cup of sugar?

• 25:22Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you throw that stuff in there. Burt Kreischer drinks that all day long. It was like a 64 ounce jug of Kool-Aid.

• 25:30Speaker 03

  He was shredded.

• 25:32Joe Rogan?

  Oh, he wasn't.

• 25:33Speaker 03

  He was more shredded than he is now.

• 25:34Joe Rogan?

  Yes. Yeah, but he's, he's real big right now. I was just talking to him the other day. I was like, dude. You gotta do something.

• 25:42Speaker 04

  Maybe Flavor Aid.

• 25:44Joe Rogan?

  Flavor Aid.

• 25:44Speaker 04

  It's similar, but that's actually.

• 25:46Speaker 03

  Might have been from.

• 25:47Joe Rogan?

  Cheaper.

• 25:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, so that was from Costco.

• 25:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they got it in bulk, Flavor Aid, there it is.

• 25:52Speaker 03

  Kirkland. Yeah.

• 25:55Joe Rogan?

  What does it say? Ho- your aid? What does it say?

• 26:00Speaker 03

  Where?

• 26:00Joe Rogan?

  What is it?

• 26:01Speaker 04

  Flay, F L A, for aid, Flavore.

• 26:04Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's an F? Make it larger? Oh, it's blurry.

• 26:07Speaker 03

  Probably.

• 26:08Joe Rogan?

  Oh, there it goes. Oh, there it goes. Yeah, Flavor Aid, okay.

• 26:10Speaker 03

  Flavore aid.

• 26:12Joe Rogan?

  They killed everybody with Flavor Aid, Jesus.

• 26:14Speaker 03

  Mixing it up.

• 26:14Joe Rogan?

  Poison has gotta be the fucking worst way to go.

• 26:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:18Joe Rogan?

  Feeling your body just getting destroyed from the inside out.

• 26:22Speaker 03

  Terrible.

• 26:23Joe Rogan?

  For some jackass who's on meth. It's a crazy podcast, but this is my point, like, what they're trying to do is keep people, keep these heterodox opinions, keep people that are like outside of the circle of expertise from talking about things, even if they've read like, Daryl Cooper's read like hundreds of books, the guy's like a fucking consummate reader and you might disagree with him about something, that's fine, that's, you, you should, that should be okay, should be okay to disagree with people about stuff.

• 26:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, and also what is learning? I mean, what is learning?

• 26:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 26:57Speaker 03

  So you said he, he read, he did all this research, Douglas Murray has a problem with, I don't know who, but what is, how is that different than going to school essentially?

• 27:06Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 27:07Speaker 03

  I mean.

• 27:08Joe Rogan?

  It's no different, it's no different, I mean, there are experts that stop learning the moment they get their degree. And that's real.

• 27:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:15Joe Rogan?

  And it's a real problem, it's a real problem in medicine, you know, I had an argument with Brian Callen years ago because his doctor was telling him, you don't need supplements, you, you just, you just need a balanced diet, that's what his doctor was saying, I go, your doctor looks like shit. Like, what are you talking, your doctor's fat, he's got a big pot belly, he's got a big doughy face, he probably can't run around the block, shut the fuck up, don't listen to that guy, there's plenty of peer reviewed papers that talk about the efficacy of vitamins, they're super beneficial for you, this is crazy talk.

• 27:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:43Joe Rogan?

  This appeal to experts, just because you have a degree, you're not always right, you're wrong all the time.

• 27:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, that was, that was pretty disappointing because. I I thought Douglas Murray, I liked listening to him. I thought he was super smart, obviously.

• 27:56Joe Rogan?

  But he sounds so good with that accent.

• 27:59Speaker 03

  But then on that one, I think I told you it's like, or I text you or something about, man, he seemed pompous. It's like, that seemed like that would took a big, for me, it was a loss for him big time.

• 28:08Joe Rogan?

  Well, he used tactics rather than facts. So the tactic was an appeal to experts like that. And there was also saying that the coverage was imbalanced. Because I didn't have enough people that were pro-Israel. But then I thought about it afterwards. I'm like, I have quite a few. There was Jordan, Ben Shapiro, there was Coleman Hughes, there's, uh, there's been quite a few people that are pro-Israel. And not even that people are anti-Israel. They just don't want to watch people get blown apart all the time.

• 28:40Speaker 03

  Right.

• 28:41Joe Rogan?

  That seems pretty reasonable. But instead of debating how this is done and what is being done militarily. It all became about like, who are the experts and what are the, what are the things that should be discussed and should it be balanced? And do you have an obligation? Like, that's not what we're here for. What we're here for is to get down to business. So what he's doing is like putting you on the defensive right away, out of the gate.

• 29:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:03Joe Rogan?

  Which is like, I recognized it. I'm like, okay.

• 29:05Speaker 03

  No, you were perfect. You're a perfect, uh, the perfect person to handle that. Because most people, when they start getting attacked, you get defensive, you attack back, right? It just, it just changes the whole dynamic of the conversation. But you stayed pretty neutral on that and.

• 29:20Joe Rogan?

  It's a trap.

• 29:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:21Joe Rogan?

  It's a trap. It's like, you know, when someone gets in your face and you start yelling, you know, in your face like, what, okay, what are we doing? Are we fighting or, you know, I could like, you start yelling too.

• 29:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:31Joe Rogan?

  And then maybe I won't be.

• 29:32Speaker 03

  That's usually what happens.

• 29:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And then maybe I won't be paying attention to your hands, you know, or your shoulder movement or whether or not you're gonna hit me.

• 29:38Speaker 03

  Yeah. See, that's a tactic. That's a fighting tactic.

• 29:40Joe Rogan?

  100%.

• 29:41Speaker 03

  He had the same tactic, but not for fighting, but for conversation.

• 29:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's, it's a tactic, you know, and then the thing of asking, Dave, you've never been like the, the, the, the semest. The, instead of having a debate on the issues, like, and this idea that expert, like Douglas Murray, I love him dearly. I think he's a brilliant man. He's got a degree in history, or, uh, excuse me, he's got a degree in English, bachelor's degree. Okay, he's not an expert either. Unless we're talking about Shakespeare, shut the fuck up, because you're not an expert either. You know what I mean? I don't have a degree in anything. I don't have, I have zero degrees in anything. But there's certain things that I'm an expert in. You want to talk about martial arts? I'm a martial arts expert. Like, if you disagree with, you have to be like, in order for me to have a conversation with someone where they disagree with me about martial,

• 30:27Joe Rogan?

  they have to be so much better, they have to be like Gordon Ryan.

• 30:30Speaker 03

  Right.

• 30:30Joe Rogan?

  You know, like, but I don't disagree with Gordon on anything. For him, like, that's a real expert, again, no degrees. That's a real expert, I would just ask questions, like, what do you do in this situation? What's, what's the benefit of this versus that? And so you talk about it, like, with these political issues, they're so, such a third rail. It's such a fucking dangerous subject that people have, like, a group that they belong with, and then that group will support them if they go out and say these ideas, and then the other people have another group, and then this person's a representative of one group and they want to duke it out with the rep. Any reasonable person would look at Gaza and go, this seems kind of excessive. This seems kind of fucking crazy.

• 31:12Speaker 03

  Right.

• 31:13Joe Rogan?

  It seems kind of crazy that seventy thousand people, or whatever it is, are dead, including women and children. Like, this is the only way to do it? Really? Any reasonable person, that doesn't make you anti-Semitic. It doesn't make you anti-Zionist, doesn't make you anything. It just like, doesn't make you pro-Hamas, like, no, it's

• 31:29Speaker 03

  Could be pro-human.

• 31:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, human beings.

• 31:31Speaker 03

  I don't think humans should be murdered.

• 31:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Just like, that sounds so reasonable. But the thing is, like, we never got into that. Because the conversation, you know, tactically, he entered into the conversation as, oh, oh, you know, because he doesn't have really a defensible position. It's very hard to say this is the only way to do it.

• 31:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:51Joe Rogan?

  So what do you say? You say, you need better experts, you shouldn't be talking to this person, you should be doing this, you should be doing that. Like, why don't you have this? You've never been there, you should go there. Like, bitch, I am not going there. What the fuck are you talking about?

• 32:04Speaker 03

  You're not even going to Brazil for another UFC fight.

• 32:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, exactly. I don't go to Canada.

• 32:10Speaker 03

  Not traveling out of the country.

• 32:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's like, you know, it's not, not what I'm interested in doing. I don't have to.

• 32:17Speaker 03

  Well, what's crazy is, so he had that take, but unless you're an expert or educated, you shouldn't have, be able to share this opinion.

• 32:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 32:26Speaker 03

  But he'd had the opposite take before.

• 32:29Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah. Which is hilarious, because somebody put a video up of him arguing with him.

• 32:33Speaker 03

  Completely opposite. So that, and I must, I don't, I asked you about this, not with him, but I asked you, do you think there's like government plans? Because it's like, if somebody, I'm not saying him, I'm just saying just in general, if somebody changes their position so, I don't know.

• 32:52Joe Rogan?

  I know. It's hard to know.

• 32:54Speaker 03

  What, how, who got to him, and why did this happen? Because then I look around, we talk about the Power Podcast, and I see these podcasts, and it's just like, how did this podcast get every guest you could ever want, and rise to the top in a heartbeat? When we know how it normally works, it works like you, decades, right, to get to the top. Then some people, so I'm thinking like, how did this happen?

• 33:19Joe Rogan?

  Well, some people are really good, you know, and they could be really good right out of the bat. Right off the bat, they could be, you know, better at it, and then they get a good following, and then, once it gets into the top 20 or whatever, then they can get good guests. You know, because when it comes to...

• 33:36Speaker 03

  That usually takes time.

• 33:37Joe Rogan?

  Sometimes. I mean, I don't know. I mean, I wonder what would happen if I started the podcast today? If there was all the podcasts that were out right now, and I had never done a podcast, and I started it today, and I did it exactly how I'm doing it. How long would it take before it catches on? I don't know.

• 33:52Speaker 03

  I don't either.

• 33:53Joe Rogan?

  I would suck, though. That would be a problem. I would suck and everybody would be watching. Because I sucked when nobody was watching, and I got better at it. I figured out how to do it. Um, but as far as like Douglas, I don't know if anybody got to him or whether or not the group that he associates with thinks this way. I don't necessarily put everything inside of a grand conspiracy. It might be that he has financial ties towards certain things. You know, like so, so he, you know, he speaks at certain places. He sells certain books. He knows how he's selling them. I mean, or it might be just that's how he thinks about things too. There's some, sometimes people always think like, oh, somebody got to him. Like, maybe that's just how he thinks.

• 34:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:35Joe Rogan?

  Somebody has to think that way. Otherwise that wouldn't be an opinion that's out there in the zeitgeist.

• 34:39Speaker 03

  Normally people don't switch a hundred and eighty degrees on things though.

• 34:43Joe Rogan?

  Especially like that, yeah.

• 34:45Speaker 03

  I mean.

• 34:45Joe Rogan?

  That's true. That's true.

• 34:46Speaker 03

  Because, because if he's educated on things, if he's been around, if he's, you know, the smart, wise person, you, you form this opinion based on that, you don't go a hundred and eighty degrees the other way and change complete, the complete opposite take.

• 35:04Joe Rogan?

  Right. Unless you've been influenced.

• 35:06Speaker 03

  It wasn't like you were just a kid and you didn't know and now all of a sudden you're an adult and it's like, I can't believe I used to say that. He was an adult the whole time.

• 35:13Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right, right.

• 35:14Speaker 03

  So how?

• 35:15Joe Rogan?

  I don't know, you know, it's, you definitely could get suspicious for sure. But you know, I hear.

• 35:21Speaker 03

  I'm very suspicious.

• 35:22Joe Rogan?

  I hear people say that about me too, which is hilarious.

• 35:25Speaker 03

  But I said.

• 35:25Joe Rogan?

  Like that I have like CIA handlers and I've heard all that.

• 35:28Speaker 03

  Decades dude, you've been doing this.

• 35:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 35:31Speaker 03

  You're the OG.

• 35:32Joe Rogan?

  I'm one of the OGs, yeah. Um, I think for sure people do get influenced, but I think people also allow themselves to get influenced because they have a financial interest in keeping a certain opinion because they know that the group that they belong to has that certain opinion. There's that, but the real problem with doing what he did was that it diminishes you publicly. Like if you really want to do that kind of a debate, if you really want to use those kind of tactics rather than a discussion of the issue, like you've never been, like that kind of stuff diminishes you publicly because everybody knows what you're doing.

• 36:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:10Joe Rogan?

  Instead of just having a conversation.

• 36:11Speaker 03

  Does everybody though?

• 36:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 36:13Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 36:13Joe Rogan?

  Anybody with a.

• 36:16Joe Rogan?

  Anybody with an opinion I value knows what you're doing.

• 36:18Speaker 03

  Right.

• 36:19Joe Rogan?

  Because if you understand conversations, you understand that's this is not, you're not really engaging with the ideas. You're deciding whether or not a person should have these ideas. Or be able to, you've never been there. Like you can't, how can you have an opinion? You know, at least you should do the courtesy. Like now, now I'm virtuous. I have been, I'm elevated. I'm better than you. You are diminished. You haven't even been there.

• 36:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:41Joe Rogan?

  Your opinion is basically meaningless.

• 36:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:43Joe Rogan?

  You know, and then it gets to this weird place where it's like, who's allowed to talk about what? You know?

• 36:48Speaker 03

  That's, that's what, it just, the change was so abrupt. It's so opposite. I was just like, because you could think if somebody was, I don't, okay, here's an example. I had somebody offer me today, not today, yesterday. If I would wear their hat, $5,000. So.

• 37:08Joe Rogan?

  With the hat and a bunch of dicks on it?

• 37:10Speaker 03

  No. It was just a brand. But, uh, so, point is, there's value into doing this. So if somebody says, well, your, your voice is this powerful, or you can reach this many people, or this many people listen to you. So if it's a political party or a movement and they have this guy, we'll, we'll pay you this much to push this point.

• 37:34Joe Rogan?

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• 38:17Speaker 00

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• 38:26Joe Rogan?

  It's possible. It's also possible that he views a guy like Dave Smith as sort of a dangerous upstart. Dave Smith has incredible recall and he's very well read.

• 39:03Joe Rogan?

  I mean, he's a consummate consumer of information and he's always reading books on the different wars and foreign policy, like, he's really into it. The way he explains it to me is like, because I'm always like, your recall's insane. He's like, "Yeah, but I could talk to you about a fight that happened 10 years ago and you'll tell me exactly how it went down." Like, that's all it is, just, this is what I'm into.

• 39:26Speaker 03

  Right.

• 39:27Joe Rogan?

  Because it's just like, it's not, I'm not, I'm not studying it for any other reason other than I'm fascinated by human conflicts, like, global conflicts. And so, when, when a guy like that is rising, you want to try to diminish his impact if he disagrees with your perspective, like, if you see someone.

• 39:47Speaker 03

  But not everybody would want to diminish that impact. Not everybody. That's a certain type of person.

• 39:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but he's also a certain type of person that kind of existed in both traditional media and alternative media. I mean, he always did my podcast and, you know, he's written some great books, like, The Strange Death of Europe is very good and proving to be very accurate. You know, if you look at, like, what's happening with mass migration into Europe, like, he was calling this a long time ago, he was saying, like, this is, and he was being called terrible names, racist, Islamophobic, all these different things, and it turns out he was right. I mean, what Conor McGregor's talking about in Ireland now and a lot of other Irish people are talking about, what people are talking about in the UK, he was right. Like, you're, you're changing your culture and you're doing it, you're not get, you're,

• 40:37Joe Rogan?

  you're not having people move there that are assimilating and becoming British, you're having people that are coming there and trying to change what being British means.

• 40:45Speaker 03

  Right.

• 40:45Joe Rogan?

  This is all he was saying. And so I agree with him on a lot of things, but I think that's how life is. You agree with people on some things, you disagree with them on other things.

• 40:56Speaker 03

  Definitely.

• 40:56Joe Rogan?

  And this is supposed to be how most people view basically everything in life. There's gonna be things that you agree with that there's a lot, I have a lot of friends that disagree with me on certain things, but that should be fine.

• 41:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:11Joe Rogan?

  That should be normal, but for some people it's not. For some people it's not allowed, because they, they live in this sort of debate culture.

• 41:18Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 41:18Joe Rogan?

  And, you know, and some people, they do debates, one of the first things they do is they insult the people they're debating with, just like.

• 41:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:24Joe Rogan?

  Ad hominem attacks, and, and again, trying to get you on the defensive.

• 41:28Speaker 03

  That's, it's like a tactic of when we talk about mainstream media, like those interview type shows, where you only have a certain amount of time.

• 41:35Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 41:35Speaker 03

  So they have to get right to it.

• 41:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 41:38Speaker 03

  Whereas, that's not the case with the, with the podcast.

• 41:41Joe Rogan?

  Also, I value perspective. I value someone who could look at things and go, yeah, like, clearly, the devastation is horrible, clearly, clearly it's horrible, clearly there's innocent people. I've seen people say, I don't wanna say who, I've seen people say there are no innocent Palestinians in Gaza, I've seen people say that, like, that's a crazy thing to say, that's a crazy thing to say, especially in a place that's controlled by essentially a terrorist group, like, like, that's a crazy thing to say. Like, would, would you, what do you think Chicago would look like? How do you think people would behave if they were, if Chicago was controlled by a terrorist group? Do you think people would be free to speak out against them? That's, is that the problem?

• 42:26Joe Rogan?

  They're not speaking out against them, so they're, they should get bombed? That's crazy. If you have a wife and a child and you're barely getting by, you barely have enough money for food, are you really gonna be out in the streets protesting against this fucking terrorist group with machine guns and, and billions of dollars they've gotten from USAID?

• 42:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:42Joe Rogan?

  No, you wouldn't.

• 42:43Speaker 03

  Obviously not.

• 42:43Joe Rogan?

  You wouldn't, you wouldn't be, you're not expressing yourself freely, so how do we even know what their opinions are?

• 42:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's, it's true. Yeah, it's just, I mean, all of it, just the changing landscape of media has just, you know, it just gets you thinking about, like, these voices and, you know, and. Douglas brought it up with in that discussion was was interesting, but all that I remember from it is like how how much he changed his perspective, but so anyway.

• 43:10Joe Rogan?

  I think he's still a brilliant guy and I would still talk to him and listen to him about a lot of things. But I think having conversations like that, communicating with people like that diminishes your appeal. Or diminishes whether or not it diminishes the overall impact of your mind on other people. Because I know you think goofy this way. I know you you communicate goofy this way. And as soon as I know that, I'm like, yeah, now I have to put this through this filter now when you say things. I have to go, yeah, but he believes a bunch of goofy shit about that. Which is fine, which is fine. I'm sure people do that with me, too. It's normal.

• 43:52Joe Rogan?

  But I think for someone who is a public intellectual, that becomes a problem. When everyone who's really paying attention knows you're using tactics rather than actually just debating the issues at hand.

• 44:06Speaker 03

  Just talking it through.

• 44:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 44:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:08Joe Rogan?

  But it's like the thing is like, who's talking? Like, come on. Everybody's talking, bitch. The whole world's talking. Like, let people talk.

• 44:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's a crazy time for sure, but yeah. You know what? You know what I was thinking also?

• 44:20Joe Rogan?

  What were you thinking?

• 44:21Speaker 03

  I don't have, did you know I don't have a bow hunting degree?

• 44:25Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's crazy. You should get a degree. Who's giving out degrees?

• 44:27Speaker 03

  I shouldn't be able to bow hunt, really. Should I?

• 44:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you're allowed to bow hunt without a degree. Yeah, because it's a caveman fucking practice.

• 44:37Speaker 03

  How awesome is bow hunting now?

• 44:38Joe Rogan?

  It's the best.

• 44:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:40Joe Rogan?

  Best way to get food.

• 44:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:42Joe Rogan?

  There's no better way to get food.

• 44:43Speaker 03

  Have you been shooting much?

• 44:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, shot this morning. Went to waste a well, yeah.

• 44:47Speaker 03

  Are we gonna shoot?

• 44:48Joe Rogan?

  Uh, I don't know if I have time today, unfortunately, because we spent so much time at waste a well. I gotta, I gotta head home after this.

• 44:54Speaker 03

  Getting healthy.

• 44:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we were getting stem cells today and the, what's the mask, the infusion, the lung stuff?

• 45:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, that was, uh, well, it's stem cell nebulizer, basically.

• 45:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so you breathe it in, so you breathe it in like vape, you're vaping stem cells.

• 45:10Speaker 03

  Gotta be, hey, all I know, and I said this when I was there, but I did that last time. And then I ran a five mile race, it was 8K, but my fastest five miles I've ever run.

• 45:21Joe Rogan?

  Really, with a broken foot?

• 45:23Speaker 03

  Yeah. At 57, so it's like, I don't know what it, if, it didn't hurt, it didn't hurt me, obviously.

• 45:30Joe Rogan?

  Well, they've done so many amazing things with me that I'm, you know, when they say something is really great, you should try it, I'm like, okay. So I put the mask on, I'm sitting there with you, we're talking about Rocky Marciano.

• 45:44Joe Rogan?

  We're, I got into these old, uh, videos on YouTube of fighters training. And I got into this, uh, one video that I sent you about Rocky Marciano and how insane his training was. And it was seven days a week, he would spar sometimes 30, 40 rounds in a day. He would run 10 miles in the morning and then five more miles at night, and then he would swim two miles in the lake. He would swim across the lake and then back. And then he would get up in the morning and do it all over again, and he never took days off.

• 46:19Speaker 03

  No, and another thing, he was like focused on recovery and sleep.

• 46:23Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 46:23Speaker 03

  Like he would be in bed like at nine, I think I said every night.

• 46:26Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 46:26Speaker 03

  And get his sleep in, but work so hard. And why do we love stories like that?

• 46:33Joe Rogan?

  Cause you know how hard it is to do.

• 46:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 46:36Speaker 03

  But it's.

• 46:37Joe Rogan?

  It's impossible. I mean, it's possible, but it's impossible for most. It's like, it requires a mind that is just fortified through will and discipline to this strange hardness that's just different than everybody else's.

• 46:54Speaker 03

  Well, but, but why would, okay, so he retired at 49 and O.

• 46:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 46:59Speaker 03

  Heavyweight, everybody knows him in fighting, maybe not everybody in the world, obviously, he died a while ago.

• 47:05Joe Rogan?

  By the way, small heavyweight, we were talking about that too. I think in his prime, he was 190 pounds. Or 189 pounds, something like, something crazy, like, what did Rocky Marciano weigh while he was fighting? I think he was 5'10" and he weighed like 189 pounds, which is insane.

• 47:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:20Joe Rogan?

  Like. 188, that's so crazy dude. So he weighed 12 pounds less than me. Think about that.

• 47:28Speaker 03

  5'10 and a quarter.

• 47:29Joe Rogan?

  He weighs 12, he's 2 inches taller than me and a little more, and then he weighs 12 pounds less.

• 47:35Speaker 03

  Did he fight Joe Louis and Sonny Liston?

• 47:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he fought, no, no, no, no. He fought Joe Louis when Joe Louis was way past his prime and, and flatlined him. It was pretty brutal. It was a scary fight. What, it was, that's so crazy that he was only 188 pounds and he was the heavyweight champion. Granted, this is a different world.

• 47:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, different era, for sure. Yeah, there was no Tyson Fury and...

• 47:57Joe Rogan?

  There's no Mike Tyson either. Like, everybody talks about Rocky Marciano. Rocky Marciano's great. Mike Tyson would've went through him like a fucking train through a flock of sheep.

• 48:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:07Joe Rogan?

  It's a different world. Rocky Mar- at his heaviest, he weighed 192.

• 48:11Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 48:12Joe Rogan?

  He fought 7 boxers who weighed more than 200 pounds, but people weren't that big back then. Sonny Liston was. Sonny Liston was big.

• 48:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, so he would've been 20 pounds bigger, bigger than Rocky Marciano, Sonny Liston.

• 48:24Joe Rogan?

  Yes. But Mike Tyson wasn't that big when he was in his prime. When he was in his prime, he was like 215, 220. You know, and 5'10 or 5'11 as well. He wasn't very big and he was...

• 48:34Speaker 03

  Did he, he was born in 69? Did I see that right?

• 48:37Joe Rogan?

  No, no, no. I think that's when he died.

• 48:39Speaker 03

  Oh, he died, okay. I was gonna say, he can't be younger than us.

• 48:43Joe Rogan?

  No, no, no, no, no. He was the heavyweight champion in the 1950s.

• 48:46Speaker 03

  Alright, nevermind. I do feel old, but it's not that old.

• 48:49Joe Rogan?

  Find, um, Rocky Marciano KOs Joe Louis. It was brutal, cuz, you know, back then, when you were 38 or whatever Joe Louis was when they fought, you were really 38. No nutrition, you know, also lifetime of fighting, probably needed the money, which is why he took the fight. It's not like the Joe Louis that knocked out Max Schmeling in the height of the war and was like, "America's hero." This is, this is Joe Louis when he's on his balding, he's got a big bald spot in the back, but he's like, it's sad.

• 49:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:22Joe Rogan?

  And Rocky Marciano just mauls him. Just mauls him.

• 49:26Speaker 03

  How did George Foreman reinvent himself when he was old?

• 49:30Joe Rogan?

  The thing is, like, one, one thing that you did see in this fight was the technical brilliance of Joe Louis, especially early in the fight. Like, if they had fought in their prime, I think Louis would've fucked him up. That's my belief.

• 49:43Speaker 03

  He's a lot bigger.

• 49:45Joe Rogan?

  He was, he was taller and, but he also had incredible power. How old was, well, we'll ask after we watch this video. But he was doing really well for a while, but the thing about Marciano was, he was not the most talented, but he did not get fucking tired and he hit like a truck. He hit like a truck and he was just a fucking animal. He just plowed forward. He never ran out of gas. Like, this is not like a technically skilled boxing match. He would just mall guys. He would just bob and weave and this is the end of it. At the end, Joe Louis goes through the ropes. It's sad, man. It's sad.

• 50:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:21Joe Rogan?

  It's sad.

• 50:23Speaker 03

  That's, that's.

• 50:24Joe Rogan?

  How old was Joe Louis when he fought Rocky Marciano?

• 50:27Speaker 03

  That's a sad scene.

• 50:28Joe Rogan?

  He looked pretty good, though.

• 50:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:30Joe Rogan?

  Up until, like, Rocky started catching him. But this is how a lot of Rocky's fights would go. Even his last fight, um, which was it against? Was it against Archie Moore, I think? He, he got dropped in that fight and just got up and just eventually pounded him and, and beat him down and KO'd him.

• 50:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:50Joe Rogan?

  But he was just so fucking tough. Like, what he would do to himself was nothing compared to whatever was gonna happen inside that ring.

• 50:58Speaker 03

  Right, so that was, that was gonna be my point. So, he had all the success, um, retired, undefeated.

• 51:05Joe Rogan?

  Pretty young, too.

• 51:06Speaker 03

  People knew.

• 51:07Joe Rogan?

  He was thirty. So, Joe Louis was thirty-seven. Thirty-seven, okay, that's how old Poetan is right now. Okay, that's how old Alex Pereira is right now.

• 51:15Speaker 03

  Right.

• 51:16Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy. So, thirty-seven back then was like, it was over.

• 51:19Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, so much older. Um, but yeah, so, when you look at Rocky's success, why weren't, why even seeing that and there's fighters out there, why wouldn't they emulate his style, his training, his, why? Why, if you, if that's what you do and you want the same type of success, why are you letting somebody outwork you?

• 51:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's not that simple. It's like, first of all, you're not as exposed to people like that.

• 51:46Speaker 03

  They didn't know.

• 51:47Joe Rogan?

  Train with them. Yeah.

• 51:48Speaker 03

  They didn't know he was doing that, right?

• 51:49Joe Rogan?

  There's no, you might hear things, you know, but if you hear things like, I heard Rocky's training seven days a week, 24 hours a day, he don't sleep, he only eats raw meat. You hear stories like that.

• 52:00Speaker 03

  That was Mickey, that was Rocky's training.

• 52:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well, that, you know, but like, that, you would hear exaggerations. You always hear exaggerations that come out of fight gyms.

• 52:12Speaker 03

  But I would, I would wanna believe those if I was a fighter and be like, cause didn't, didn't Tyson used to say that? That's why I got up at five in the morning or four in the morning?

• 52:19Joe Rogan?

  Yes. Well, Tyson did train like that.

• 52:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:22Joe Rogan?

  You know who else trained like that forever? Marvin Hagler.

• 52:24Speaker 03

  Oh, I thought you were gonna say Floyd.

• 52:26Joe Rogan?

  Marvin Hagler trained like a fucking warrior.

• 52:30Speaker 03

  Right.

• 52:30Joe Rogan?

  He used to run in, he was to train on the sand dunes in the Cape of Cape Cod in the middle of the winter. And he would just be running, screaming war.

• 52:41Speaker 03

  Love that.

• 52:42Joe Rogan?

  War. Just throwing punches, he would run in combat boots.

• 52:46Speaker 03

  Dude.

• 52:46Joe Rogan?

  He was an animal. He was an animal, just Spartan. He would go to this Province Town Inn, no fucking phones, he would tell his wife and family, I'm gone, I don't exist, I'm gone. For two months, he would just vanish and every day would be the same thing and he would spar, he would spar a lot. Hagler was sparring a hundred rounds a week. So he was sparring 20 rounds a day for five days in a row.

• 53:13Speaker 03

  So.

• 53:14Joe Rogan?

  And he would bring in fresh sparring partners too. It's not like one guy he's beaten up for 20 rounds. No, he'd bring in, he would rotate five different sparring partners. So they would all come in and do four rounds each.

• 53:25Speaker 03

  Do that too, kinda?

• 53:26Joe Rogan?

  Perhaps. Uh, I don't know. I mean, um, I don't know exactly. Khabib all had unbelievably grueling training sessions. And, you know, that was one of the things that was so. A parent like with his, his endurance and his, his, their discipline was like second to none. Mm-hmm. They were like, no girlfriends, no phones, no bullshit, no video games, fuck you, we train. Yeah. And, you know, recover, train, eat, recover, train. And you wanna, you wanna really be a champion, this is how you have to work. Mm-hmm. And this is how Islam Makachev is so good, that's why Khabib is so good, those guys are disciplined. So. This episode is brought to you by Visible. As fall hits, we enter another season of change.

• 54:08Joe Rogan?

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• 54:49Joe Rogan?

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• 55:32Joe Rogan?

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• 55:46Speaker 00

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• 56:09Speaker 03

  If I think about it, you know, we love stories like that. We love all the sparring, but it can't, it's not gonna lead to a long life.

• 56:17Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 56:18Speaker 03

  I mean,

• 56:19Joe Rogan?

  No, no, no.

• 56:19Speaker 03

  But is that the price to be a Rocky Marciano or a Khabib who has to retire at whatever he was, 32 or whatever? It's like, is that what it takes?

• 56:29Joe Rogan?

  It probably does.

• 56:30Speaker 03

  To be icon, to be legends?

• 56:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you give up something to get something. Like, I don't think you could be,

• 56:35Speaker 03

  You give up life.

• 56:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I don't think you could be completely balanced to be and be the best ever. But, you know, it depends on how you're doing it, you know? Like, the thing that's so brilliant about Floyd Mayweather is that if you look at his career, he might have been really hit hard four or five times.

• 56:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 56:53Joe Rogan?

  In his whole career, which is insanity. I mean, he really is only, that's Hagler.

• 56:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 56:58Joe Rogan?

  In the snow, screaming war.

• 57:03Speaker 03

  Dude, I, what?

• 57:04Joe Rogan?

  It was the best.

• 57:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, but, so why do we love stories like this?

• 57:08Joe Rogan?

  Well, for me, when I was a kid, Hagler was the man.

• 57:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 57:12Joe Rogan?

  You know, when I was in high school.

• 57:14Speaker 03

  But we still, we still love them now.

• 57:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 57:16Speaker 03

  I love, like, that clip you sent me yesterday.

• 57:18Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 57:18Speaker 03

  Or this.

• 57:19Joe Rogan?

  This clip is the same, same YouTube website. It's Boxing Life, is that the YouTube channel? It's a really good channel. But with Hagler's discipline was just, it was so admirable. Like, he didn't have to go fucking Cape Cod in the middle of the winter.

• 57:34Speaker 03

  Right.

• 57:34Joe Rogan?

  He did it because he wanted to be separated. He wanted to live a Spartan life. Look, he would run backwards.

• 57:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 57:39Joe Rogan?

  Throwing punches. And that's, I think that's either Goody or Pat, the Petronelli brothers with the guys who trained him. But like, this is his workout. Six mile runs, deep hills, running backwards, breakfast, rest, watch TV film, late lunch, boxing training, strength and conditioning, dinner, watch film, and sleep. Repeat, rinse, do it again, day after day after day.

• 58:02Speaker 03

  That's it. I don't see too much chill out in there.

• 58:06Joe Rogan?

  My favorite fight with him was against John the Beast Mugabe. Because everybody points to the Hearns fight where he beat the shit out of Hearns and KO'd him. Incredible, incredible. Incredible knockout, for sure. One of the best boxing matches. One of the best, most entertaining world championship fights of all time. But for me, it was Mugabe. Because Mugabe was uniquely talented. Mugabe had insane power. I remember I was at a boxing gym in Massachusetts at the time Mugabe was about to fight Hagler, when Mugabe was coming up. And they were telling me stories about Mugabe fighting guys and they never fought again. They had brain damage. You know, I don't know how mu- again, boxing gym talk, it's hard to know.

• 58:47Joe Rogan?

  But I remember being a kid, listening to this going, "What the fuck? Like, he hit that hard." Mugabe just was flattening people. See, if you can find John Mugabe... Who did he KO? Did he KO Terry Norris? No, that was later. Who did John Mugabe fight that he knocked out?

• 59:07Speaker 03

  Best KOs of John Mugabe.

• 59:08Joe Rogan?

  Let's see, pull up John Mugabe's record. So, John Mugabe was like, almost kind of, okay, here, top John Mugabe greatest knockouts. He was almost like a Francis Nganu guy, where it's like his power was just so crazy. You would watch him hit people and you'd go, "What the fuck, man?" Oh, this is Julian Jackson, right? Is that who it is?

• 59:30Joe Rogan?

  Pretty sure he KO'd Julian Jackson. Or, maybe that was Terry Nor- no, Julian Jackson KO'd Terry Norris. But, you know, he just had just extraordinary power. Are they showing the KOs here? This is just a lot of boxing. Here it is. Here he goes.

• 59:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, bro. He just had this one punch knockout power and when he fought Hagler, man, he caught Hagler with some big shots. Yeah. And one of the more impressive things about Marvin was not just that he was such a big puncher and a great boxer, but also how durable he was because he was in such incredible shape. You know, he never went down his entire career. He has one knockdown and it was 100% bullshit. He fought this guy named Juan Roldan and when Hagler was bending over, Juan Roldan kinda cuffed him in the back of the neck and he fell forward and they called it a knockdown. It was not a knockdown and most boxing experts, I would, I would actually argue that all boxing experts agree that that was not a real knockdown.

• 1:00:32Joe Rogan?

  So you're talking about a guy who fought Tommy Hearns. Did you see that last one? Yeah, it was a little illegal. A little on the, on the knee. One knee down, he KO'd him, yeah. But the point is Mugabe was terrifying and he was fucking everybody up and Hagler broke him. But in the beginning, it was rough. In the beginning, it was rough. Mugabe was landing some big shots. See if you can find Mugabe, well, I know it's available, Mugabe versus Hagler. He was mean too, man, like hitting guys where they were down. Yeah. Dangerous, dangerous guy. And I don't know if he fought again after Hagler KO'd him, but he was never, never in the conversation again. Hagler broke him. Hagler told him he was gonna retire him. He's like, I'm gonna retire him, he's never gonna box again.

• 1:01:14Joe Rogan?

  And he just beat him down and I think it was the 11th round when he finally stopped him. 5'8" and 5'9". Yeah, 160, you know, that's about right. You know, generally speaking for, you know, heavily muscled guys, especially back then, those guys were not cutting a lot of weight like they are today. Right. Like some of these guys today are, are cutting big weight. Oh god, Hagler looks good, doesn't he? Yeah, by the time the 8th round started happening, Hagler, one of the things about Hagler that was so good was Hagler could switch. So he could fight you southpaw and then in the middle of nowhere, he would switch up and start fighting you orthodox and was just as good. Wow. Just as good. The only guy who's like that is Terrence Crawford, who's champion now. Mm-hmm. He's the only guy that I've ever seen that fights just as good from southpaw as

• 1:01:58Joe Rogan?

  from orthodox, but Hagler was a rarity back then. A guy that could switch it up like that. Like, nobody had ever seen that before. Yeah. But that's also why it was very difficult for him to get fights early on. Because nobody really wanted to fight a southpaw. Like, southpaws were, they were too awkward. Everything's backwards.

• 1:02:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:02:17Joe Rogan?

  And if you're not used to fighting southpaws, they have an advantage, because they're always fighting orthodox people.

• 1:02:22Speaker 03

  Right, that makes sense.

• 1:02:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and so they're accustomed to that one look. Now, this fight had gone back and forth and back and forth. This is the end. This is when Hagler finally gets him. Boom, and that was it. And I think that was the 11th or the 12th round. I think it was the 11th round of a 12-round fight. So Hagler fought in the era where they used to have 15-round fights and they turned them into 12-rounders after Duck Kukim died, when Ray Mancini KOed Duck Kukim.

• 1:02:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's a lot of damage. 15 rounds of headshots.

• 1:02:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, man. Well, I mean, I think that's why Rocky Marsiño retired when he was 32. And, you know, 49-0 and 32-years-old. He could've kept fighting, could've kept making money. 32 is your athletic prime.

• 1:03:04Speaker 03

  That's what I'm thinking, like, and, you know, Khabib did the same thing, and when I, I just love seeing those training camp videos, carrying the rocks and running the mountains. And it's just like, but, you know, back to my point, why do we love that? Just because it's so primal?

• 1:03:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:21Speaker 03

  And it's just, just men just giving everything they have?

• 1:03:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:25Speaker 03

  It's like, it's, and it's one reason why Goggins is such a draw.

• 1:03:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 1:03:32Speaker 03

  He's sort of like that.

• 1:03:33Joe Rogan?

  Oh, he's very much like that. But the craziest thing about Goggins is he's not even training for anything. I asked him about it. He goes, "I'm downloading, downloading information." I'm like, "You're downloading? What are you downloading?" This is so crazy. We were talking about the video that he, that, uh, Style Bender just put out. Shout out to Style Bender for putting this out, too. We're also giving him credit because

• 1:03:53Speaker 03

  Respect.

• 1:03:54Joe Rogan?

  Because David broke him.

• 1:03:59Speaker 01

  You're hurting, you are willing to go to another level higher? That's when you break up. So come off of here, see. That's awful. It's awful. Where your world ends, mine begins.

• 1:04:11Joe Rogan?

  Where your world ends, mine begins. And this is one of Goggins' multiple workouts of the day that he took Style Bender through.

• 1:04:20Speaker 03

  Style Bender's off there.

• 1:04:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and he's... They're helping him back up. By the way, this is after they already ran. This is like the second, this is the third thing they did. They ran, then they did the Airdyne bike, and then they're doing this. So they already did sprints on the Airdyne bike, they ran for distance, I don't know how many miles they ran. But he was exhausted after the run, then exhausted after the Airdyne, and then he does this, and then they do it all over again.

• 1:04:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:04:47Joe Rogan?

  They start again with the fucking Airdyne machine, they go back and forth, and then it goes to sit-ups, and then it goes to... It just like, it never ends. And this is one, and then, people go, "He's not doing that every day." Well, fucking clearly he is.

• 1:04:58Speaker 03

  Every day.

• 1:04:59Joe Rogan?

  Clearly he is, because look at him, he's not even breathing heavy. Style Bender is dying, and David Goggins is talking to him with normal breath. At the same time, a world champion, one of the greatest middleweights of all time, can't even keep his food down.

• 1:05:16Speaker 03

  And remember, this is Style Bender, who against Kevin Gaslyum, was saying, "I'm prepared to die."

• 1:05:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:22Speaker 03

  Going into the fifth round.

• 1:05:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:24Speaker 03

  Looks across the ring, cage, says, "I'm prepared to die." Same guy.

• 1:05:28Joe Rogan?

  Same guy, yeah. There's levels when it comes to endurance. You know, and I was telling you about, when we're getting our infusions, when we're vaping stem cells today. I was telling you about BJ Penn when he was in his prime. When BJ Penn was in his prime, he was training with Marv Marinovich. And Marv Marinovich had very unorthodox training methods, where it was all plyometrics, explosive drills, sprints, box jumps, all this crazy stuff, and he believed, and I hope I'm not quoting him incorrectly, but he believed that... Fight training was of secondary importance when you're in camp and really what was important is to just have a fucking insane gas tank. Like BJ Penn knows how to fight. He's a world champion. He's not gonna forget how to fight.

• 1:06:14Joe Rogan?

  But you could get him training this way where you have this gas tank that's just insane. And when BJ Penn was training with him, he was unstoppable, man. He was like, I always say this, like, people talk about Khabib being the greatest lightweight of all time and maybe he is. It's very possible he is. But I would put the BJ Penn that fought Joe Daddy Stevenson, the BJ Penn that fought Sean Shirk, the BJ Penn that was like in that peak when he was training with, I would put him against anybody. Against anybody. Against Diego, when he fought Diego Sanchez, he couldn't be stopped. And if you got him to the ground, his fucking submission game was insane. It was insane off of his back.

• 1:06:55Joe Rogan?

  He would take your back, you're dead. He would knock you out standing up. His kickboxing was elite. How do you think Khabib would fight him? Take him down, for sure. He'd probably fight him the same way George St. Pierre did, you know, but the difference in size between BJ Penn and George St. Pierre is pretty significant. Right. BJ Penn was really 155-pound guy who actually later in his career fought 145. When the, later, you know, which was, you know, when he was kind of at the end of his career. But the, but, you know, George is way bigger. Like George was a big 170, big muscular 170 with great wrestling. Nasty ground and pound and a black belt in jiu-jitsu himself and also a really good striker.

• 1:07:37Joe Rogan?

  And just, you know, in his prime when he was so well-rounded. Yeah. And there was also accusations of greasing, you know, because, you know, George was very slippery in that fight. Which is, if you're a grappler and the other person, you can't get a hold of him. Especially if you're a guy like BJ who fights so well off of his back. BJ's legs were like arms, where- He could be sitting there without using his hands. He could put his feet in the Lotus position. So like completely cross and lock his legs in the Lotus position without using his hands at all.

• 1:08:09Speaker 03

  Whoa.

• 1:08:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, crazy flexibility and dexterity.

• 1:08:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:08:13Joe Rogan?

  So if you were trapped in his guard, you were fucked.

• 1:08:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, you see those guys who they're on their, they're on their back and they get their leg up around

• 1:08:21Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:08:21Speaker 03

  The guy with the top position's head.

• 1:08:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:23Speaker 03

  Somehow, you know, it's just.

• 1:08:25Joe Rogan?

  When you're in like Eddie Bravo's guard, it's terrifying. Eddie Bravo has the craziest guard I've ever been in. It's so nuts. And there's a bunch of Eddie's students like Jeremiah Vance who also have these like insane guards like that. There's certain guys where like if you're, if they're on their back, it's no picnic. Like Fabricio Verdun, he tapped Fedor Emelianenko from his back. He got him in an arm bar triangle from his back.

• 1:08:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, like, well, you could tell like if we talk about a recent fight, uh Chandler versus Paddy Pimblett. Chandler didn't really want to be on the ground with Patty.

• 1:08:55Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:08:56Speaker 03

  And Chandler's a wrestler, like he loves being on top, but still he had top position and was still nervous about doing stuff, it seemed like. I don't know.

• 1:09:05Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:09:05Speaker 03

  I don't know, but it seemed like it.

• 1:09:07Joe Rogan?

  Patty's a big lightweight. He really is. I mean, I know he gets real fat in between fights, he gets a kick out of it, but he's big.

• 1:09:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:09:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he's, he's big. You know, he's a lot bigger than people think. I always say that he tricks people by dancing and having silly hair and you go, oh, that's a killer. He's like tricking you. He's like, you know, he's like one of them, them bugs that pretends to stick. Then you get close and he jacks you.

• 1:09:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, he looked, he looked so good.

• 1:09:34Joe Rogan?

  He's really good.

• 1:09:34Speaker 03

  Which I, you know, I'm, you know, Chandler, I love Chandler. Love Chandler. That was a tough one to watch.

• 1:09:40Joe Rogan?

  I, I love Chandler as well, but I love Patty as well. Patty is very impressive.

• 1:09:44Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:09:45Joe Rogan?

  You know, there's a good argument

• 1:09:47Speaker 03

  I respect all of them.

• 1:09:47Joe Rogan?

  That the last three guys he fought, Bobby Green, um Chandler and um Tony Ferguson, like he's fighting guys with losing records. Which is true. You know, that is true. But it, it's still very impressive. What he did to Chandler in comparison to like what Olivera did. Like Olivera was in real trouble in the third round of their last fight. Real trouble and real trouble in the first round of their first fight.

• 1:10:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:10:12Joe Rogan?

  And Patty was never in trouble.

• 1:10:14Speaker 03

  Chandler was this close to having that belt.

• 1:10:16Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:10:16Speaker 03

  In that first fight.

• 1:10:17Joe Rogan?

  This close in the first round, this close.

• 1:10:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:10:19Joe Rogan?

  And um maybe just got, uh yeah, sure. Thank you. Maybe just got a little overzealous in that fight.

• 1:10:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, he was excited. I mean.

• 1:10:26Joe Rogan?

  In the second round.

• 1:10:27Speaker 03

  Who wouldn't be?

• 1:10:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. But also, Olivera is a master.

• 1:10:31Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:10:32Joe Rogan?

  He's so good.

• 1:10:32Speaker 03

  Well, that, his fight against, I think, Armin, right?

• 1:10:35Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:10:36Speaker 03

  Was so.

• 1:10:37Joe Rogan?

  So good.

• 1:10:38Speaker 03

  I was watching those guys fight and I'm just like, I've never seen two guys this crisp, good, technical, just never out of position hardly.

• 1:10:47Joe Rogan?

  And Charles almost caught him twice in two very close submission attempts.

• 1:10:51Speaker 03

  It looked like he was out at one ti- he wasn't moving.

• 1:10:54Joe Rogan?

  Well, he got it. He was pretty locked in, but he wasn't out, but it was very close.

• 1:10:58Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:10:58Joe Rogan?

  Very close. I think he should have won that fight, in my opinion. Those positions where Charles had, where you were that close to finishing a fight, count for a lot.

• 1:11:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:11:08Joe Rogan?

  And I think that's part of the problem with scoring system. It's one thing if you like go for a guillotine, the guy gets out of it immediately, you're on your back, getting beat up. That submission attempt, that's not that much. When a guy has a fully locked in darts choke, and you're almost out, and you get saved by the bell, that should count for a lot.

• 1:11:24Speaker 03

  What's the best position for a darts? Cause they were both kind of flat on the ground.

• 1:11:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there's a bunch of different ways you can catch a darts, but the way a darts works is like, say if you have an underhook, which means your left arm is wrapped around my waist. What I want to do is shove my arm under your armpit, so it pops out the side of your neck. Then I want to wrap my bicep around like this.

• 1:11:48Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:11:48Joe Rogan?

  So I lock my arm around one side of your neck in this, and then I'm squeezing.

• 1:11:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:11:53Joe Rogan?

  So that's Tony Ferguson. He had a nasty, nasty darts.

• 1:11:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:11:58Joe Rogan?

  His, Tony's darts was elite. Cause Tony has long, you see him catching it standing up there.

• 1:12:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:12:04Joe Rogan?

  Tony has long arms and he's strong as fuck, and he's got like a great grappling base, cause he started off as a wrestler.

• 1:12:12Speaker 03

  Oh, there, yeah, see, there's Charles.

• 1:12:14Joe Rogan?

  Charles is up on top, right there.

• 1:12:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:12:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:17Speaker 03

  Cause that's what I'm saying, they're kind of laying both.

• 1:12:19Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:12:19Speaker 03

  Flat, and I just didn't know what was best.

• 1:12:21Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's not ideal. Ideal is when you get the guy on his back, and then you could lock, like the Dustin Poirier one where Islam has him. See how Dustin in the, the lower right hand corner? Yeah, that's it right there. So, that's him against, um. Go a little higher there? That's, that's a Hinata Moikano. But one of the things you see about Islam, he's got a very unique way of doing the dars. Is Islam grabs his own wrist like this to finish it. Yeah. Whereas other guys go all the way down to the bicep. And the thing about grabbing the wrist like that, that's really good, is you can make it a little bit tighter

• 1:13:03Joe Rogan?

  in a situation where you can't, like some guys, they have too much bulk and maybe your arms are too short. You can't get the, like, having long arms is really important for a dars. Like, Jon Jones must have a wicked dars. Cause you can get the arms all the way through if they're long, then you can cinch it up. But Islam cinches it up actually by grabbing a hold of his wrist. And so it gives you extra space and the grip that he uses is incredibly tight. He's also insanely strong. Who, who is? Islam. Islam is insanely strong. Like, he's got that sort of elite grappling strength that comes from decades of throwing human bodies around. Yeah.

• 1:13:45Joe Rogan?

  There's a thing about that, like here, it says, Demetrius Johnson says, "I felt it. I know. Fucking Max Holloway just texted me. How strong is that dars?" That's a sick dars. Ooh. Islam is elite. Yeah. He's elite when it comes to like strangling people. So is Ilya Topuria. He's got a nasty dars too. Is he fighting? I don't know. Oh, that never got signed?

• 1:14:07Speaker 05

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• 1:14:38Joe Rogan?

  This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Believe it or not, the holiday season is here again, and that means you might need to fill some seasonal roles. Fast. Maybe you need extra cashiers or stalkers, or maybe something more unique like a lead elf, or an expert gift wrapper, or a Zamboni driver. Whoever you're looking for, whatever skills you need to power through the rest of the year, ZipRecruiter is one of the best places to start your search. Because you can try it for free at ziprecruiter.com/rogan. And because ZipRecruiter helps sort through thousands of resumes and applications, showing you the most qualified and interesting ones first. There's even an option for candidates to explain

• 1:15:23Joe Rogan?

  why they want the job. Let ZipRecruiter find the right people for your roles, seasonal or otherwise. Try it for free today at ziprecruiter.com/rogan. That's ziprecruiter.com/rogan. Meet your match on ZipRecruiter. It's, the word is, and this is only from the internet, this is not from Dana. And if he told me, he'd probably tell me not to tell anybody, so I won't tell you. But the word on the internet is that Ilya plans to fight in the June card, the big international fight week card at the end of June. Whether or not it's for the title, he said he's only fighting for the title. That's what he said. Unless he said Conor McGregor. He said, I'd fight Conor McGregor.

• 1:16:08Joe Rogan?

  Or the title. And I think he's just fight Conor McGregor because he knows the numbers would be fucking insane. Yeah. Millions of dollars. How, how? But it doesn't mean he's fighting Islam. Because Islam might decide, I'm gonna go up to 170. Right, yeah. Like, here's what could happen, because Islam's been talking about fighting 170. If Bilal Mohammed, who's the current welterweight champion, who's gonna fight Jack Delamadalena, which is only in like, a couple of weeks, right? When is that? When is that one?

• 1:16:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's coming up.

• 1:16:38Joe Rogan?

  They might hold that announcement until that fight. So Islam and Bilal were training partners. And apparently Khabib does not want Islam to fight Bilal. But if Bilal loses to Jack Delamadellana, then it's a no brainer.

• 1:16:54Speaker 03

  Why doesn't he not want him to fight him?

• 1:16:57Joe Rogan?

  Next Saturday?

• 1:16:58Speaker 04

  Not this, but next.

• 1:16:59Joe Rogan?

  May 10th, yeah, so it's real soon. So all they would have to do is hold off their announcement until May.

• 1:17:06Speaker 03

  I see.

• 1:17:06Joe Rogan?

  So if Bilal wins, then there's an issue. Because Khabib does not want Islam, apparently, allegedly, apparently, doesn't want them fighting because they're brothers. You know, they train together, the whole deal.

• 1:17:17Speaker 03

  Oh, I see.

• 1:17:18Joe Rogan?

  But Islam's big. I mean, he easily could be fighting at 170. It's probably torture for him to get down to 155. Whenever I interview him, I'm like, how are you 155? This is so crazy.

• 1:17:28Speaker 03

  That would show rough weight cuts for him, it seems like.

• 1:17:31Joe Rogan?

  It's rough. He's big. He's probably 190 plus. Look at that, boom. Oh, yeah, Islam says, I'm gonna submit you with that because that's your, it's your thing. Islam says, or excuse me, Ilya says that he's gonna submit Islam with whatever his favorite move is. He's like, tell me your favorite choke. Tell me your favorite submission, that's what I'm gonna submit you with.

• 1:17:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:17:53Joe Rogan?

  It's easy to say, you know, that's a, that's an elite level and a lot bigger.

• 1:17:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, I was gonna, I was gonna ask, like, you know, how hard is it? Or who is the next star? Because, you know, we kind of saw this with Rhonda when she was coming out of the women's division. It's like, who is the next star gonna be? Connor, still people are trying to call Connor out because they know of that money that's involved with it.

• 1:18:21Speaker 03

  How do we get that next superstar?

• 1:18:24Joe Rogan?

  Well, they have to win, you know? Sugar Sean O'Malley could have had it if he beat Marab, you know? But that was a nightmare matchup and he had a fucked up hip going into that fight, which is... It's one of those things UFC was putting on this big show at the Sphere, which was insane. By the way, if they ever do one again, you gotta go.

• 1:18:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:18:44Joe Rogan?

  This fucking Sphere's crazy.

• 1:18:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, I remember watching it.

• 1:18:47Joe Rogan?

  It's so crazy. It's like a total experience in and unto itself. I need to go to a concert there. It's the most amazing venue I've ever seen in my life and it's, there's not even a close second. Like, nothing's close. There's a really cool one in LA that just opened up that we did a LA card there a few months back. That was really good, too. But it's like one tenth of the Sphere. The Sphere's nuts.

• 1:19:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:19:10Joe Rogan?

  It's so nuts.

• 1:19:12Speaker 03

  It looked insane on TV.

• 1:19:14Joe Rogan?

  And the sound, the sound, you feel it through your fucking bones. It's wild.

• 1:19:19Speaker 03

  That was like last May 5th, wasn't it?

• 1:19:22Joe Rogan?

  I believe so.

• 1:19:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, Cinco de Mayo.

• 1:19:24Joe Rogan?

  So, um, for him to take that fight with a bad hip is crazy. And I know he did it because he thought he could win anyway because he's a champion and that's how champions think.

• 1:19:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, you have to.

• 1:19:36Joe Rogan?

  But with a bad hip, when you're fighting a wrestler and you weren't wrestling at all in training because your hip's bad, that's crazy. That's like, you gotta, you gotta get it fixed. Just get it fixed. Tell, tell them it blew out and you can't walk. Get it fixed. You gotta think about the legacy and the future. And taking a fight against a guy who's an elite grappler while you have a blown hip is kind of insane. If you can't grapple. Like, it seems insane.

• 1:20:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:20:04Joe Rogan?

  But he could've won.

• 1:20:05Speaker 03

  I think it's that mindset you just have to have. It kinda can get you in trouble, too.

• 1:20:09Joe Rogan?

  And you look at how good his takedown defense was against Aljamain Sterling. So, Aljamain Sterling in the first round tried to take Shawn down. He could not take him down. And that was a big factor. Like, Aljamain was in trouble. Cause if you can't take him down and Shawn is a fucking sniper. He's a sniper. And he knows how to find that chin, man. He's, he's got a pull right hand that's like from the textbooks. And the one he would hit Aljamain with, that's on, that's gonna be in that UFC when they play The Who.

• 1:20:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:20:38Joe Rogan?

  When they play, uh, Baba O'Reilly. That'll be on that forever. That is such a clean right hand.

• 1:20:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:20:44Joe Rogan?

  It's such a pull back, black.

• 1:20:47Speaker 03

  And he, and Aljamain saw it coming.

• 1:20:49Joe Rogan?

  Oh!

• 1:20:49Speaker 03

  You can see his face.

• 1:20:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he's like, oh no! What have I done?

• 1:20:53Speaker 03

  I know.

• 1:20:54Joe Rogan?

  And I bet he thought he could do that to Murab, too, and he might've been able to, but Murab is a different, Murab's a different species of human.

• 1:21:00Speaker 03

  So...

• 1:21:01Joe Rogan?

  Again, same kind of guy.

• 1:21:02Speaker 03

  I know.

• 1:21:03Joe Rogan?

  Same kinda guy.

• 1:21:04Speaker 03

  So, listen. I've had to, we've been kinda dealing with this with, with my kids and Truitt and all this stuff he's been doing, but I think those, those fighters we're talking about, it just made me think of my kids, but when you start them at, as kids, like, like the guys like Khabib, Dagestani guys, Marab, those guys have been training forever, right?

• 1:21:30Joe Rogan?

  Yep, for sure.

• 1:21:31Speaker 03

  Forever?

• 1:21:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 1:21:33Speaker 03

  That has to give you, yeah, you have to have other abilities and talents and skills and this mindset, but when you start that early?

• 1:21:41Joe Rogan?

  By the way, Rocky Marciano didn't start boxing until he was 23.

• 1:21:44Speaker 03

  Okay, well, there goes my theory.

• 1:21:48Joe Rogan?

  And you know, he had one of his amateur fights, he was exhausted, and so he vowed to never be exhausted again.

• 1:21:56Speaker 03

  Never be tired again?

• 1:21:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. He gassed out in a fight, and he's like, never again, so he just decided he was good. But it's also like, he was Italian, from immigrant, uh, parents who barely could speak English. And those people who came over on the boat, they were a different species. They're a different species of hard workers. Those people were tough, and they demanded so much.

• 1:22:19Speaker 03

  Joey Diaz, immigrant mentality.

• 1:22:21Joe Rogan?

  Immigrant mentality, cocksucker. Yeah, I mean, that's real. Immigrant mentality's a real thing. When you've come here from another country, and you, you see how hard your family works, and there's just like, there's no if, ands, or buts. I always tell the story about this guy that I used to train with that always used to make me feel lazy, uh, my friend Junksek, he was in his residency in medical school while he was on the US national team. So he was a national Taekwondo champion while he was going through medical school. So he was going to school 12 hours a day and still training, and he would put his books in his backpack and run stairs in between studying. That's how you get in shape sometimes, and then he would come to the gym exhausted and fuck everybody up.

• 1:23:03Joe Rogan?

  He was amazing, and I was, I remember thinking like, I'm so lazy. Like, and I wasn't lazy, but like, compared to that dude, I was lazy.

• 1:23:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, how, I just, that's what fascinates me, cause, you know, I've talked to Huberman about Courtney in regard, in this regard too, it's like, willpower.

• 1:23:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:23Speaker 03

  Like, will, how? What gives somebody more willpower than another person?

• 1:23:29Joe Rogan?

  It's hard to say because according to Goggins, he forged that and he has more will than any human being that's ever walked the face of the planet. And he used to be a lazy fuck. He'll tell you, he'll tell you, "I was lazy, I was fat, I was 300 pounds, I drank milkshakes all day." Like, he'll tell you. Like, and then he decided that that's not him anymore. And then he decided it better than anybody who ever has. So it's not like he had some genetic gift of will.

• 1:23:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:23:54Joe Rogan?

  That's not the case. He forged it.

• 1:23:57Speaker 03

  And this, you know, Huberman talks about this, whatever that part of your-

• 1:24:00Joe Rogan?

  That part of your brain?

• 1:24:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, that you can grow. So is it that, that anybody can develop this willpower?

• 1:24:06Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think Goggins proves that, because he's, again, he's, he's the goat. He's the goat. When it comes to like will, and people don't know what Goggins was doing with Izzy, Goggins has two destroyed knees. Okay, I had dinner with him in Vegas a few weeks back, and he showed me like some recent x-rays of his knees, because he got some fucking new thing in his knee to like to keep his bones from fucking smashing into each other, some post that they put at the top of one of his knees, because his cartilage is missing and his fucking meniscus is blown out, and they saw the top of his bone and shifted it down and screwed it in place, because his knee was all out of alignment. Because he had been running bone on bone so long that his, his bones were starting to

• 1:24:50Joe Rogan?

  just, it's like called wolf something syndrome. And his doctor said, "I've never seen it in a human being before." Like, this is fucking insane. Like, how, how are you walking on these knees? Forget about running thousands of miles.

• 1:25:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:25:04Joe Rogan?

  But he does it, he just does it, right? And if that guy will tell you that he didn't have any willpower, and that he was fat and lazy, and then decided that he's not gonna be that anymore, and then put himself through grueling strength and conditioning, became a Navy SEAL.

• 1:25:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:25:20Joe Rogan?

  And then...

• 1:25:23Joe Rogan?

  And look at him, he's laughing.

• 1:25:27Speaker 01

  Let's see how much of a joke this is. And guess what? I do our best alone, alone. I ain't got no body. That's where the shit comes from. I ain't got nobody to push me to this level. That's my darkness. That's why I'm laughing, these motherfuckers. You think they fucking know me? You think you know me coming to my dungeon? It's a lonely dungeon, because you're gonna do this shit alone. Every day? Training this hard by yourself? Come on, man. And this is, you see me breathing heavy? Imagine the level I go to.

• 1:25:54Speaker 01

  Somebody call the police.

• 1:25:58Speaker 03

  Good clip, Jamie.

• 1:25:59Joe Rogan?

  I mean, how do you not admire that? Look, oh, he is psycho.

• 1:26:03Speaker 03

  I love it.

• 1:26:04Joe Rogan?

  He is psycho.

• 1:26:04Speaker 03

  I love it. Yeah.

• 1:26:06Joe Rogan?

  He is psycho.

• 1:26:07Speaker 03

  I said, we joke around about, you know, because he says it's so easy to be great nowadays because everybody else is weak. That's what Goggins says, right?

• 1:26:15Joe Rogan?

  Interesting.

• 1:26:15Speaker 03

  And it's like, when you talk about, we talk about generations, and you've mentioned it a million times, good times create soft, all that whole thing. But I said, well, we got one. We got Truitt. So we got the, we got one kid who's, who's still getting it done, so.

• 1:26:31Joe Rogan?

  Well, your son learned from you. I mean, that's a great example of, you know, he's grew up in an environment where his father was regularly running these 100 mile races and regularly running 13 miles in the morning before work. Like, you were doing all that stuff and you were setting an example.

• 1:26:48Speaker 03

  I was gonna show you something, too.

• 1:26:49Joe Rogan?

  And then he sees how far it takes you in life, you know?

• 1:26:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:26:53Joe Rogan?

  You've gotten here by just force of will.

• 1:26:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, and when I, Truitt sent me this today. So this is his first half marathon. Can you see that?

• 1:27:02Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow, he's a little kid. Wow.

• 1:27:05Speaker 03

  But he still ran eight minute miles in that.

• 1:27:08Joe Rogan?

  That's incredible. That's a little kid.

• 1:27:11Speaker 03

  But anyway, that's like, that's what I was saying about when you start that early with stuff like that.

• 1:27:16Joe Rogan?

  You get used to it, yeah. But then again, Goggins, you know, will tell you different. Or Rocky Marciano will tell you different. Like, he didn't, I don't think there's a hard fast rule. Look at that. Look at you guys. Aww.

• 1:27:30Speaker 03

  That was his first marathon there.

• 1:27:32Joe Rogan?

  That's so cute.

• 1:27:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:27:34Joe Rogan?

  There's no hard fast rules. Like, yes, it's definitely beneficial. As far as skill development, this is what I've always said about striking in particular. There's something about learning striking while your body is maturing and you're young is way better than learning striking once you're an adult.

• 1:27:54Speaker 03

  Because you said that with your, with your kick.

• 1:27:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:57Speaker 03

  Because your body was changing as you developed that kick and mastered it.

• 1:28:00Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. I was kicking in all kicks, you know? It's not like that's the only one that I'm really elite at. I, I'm, you know, I learned how to kick. When I was like a little gangly little kid.

• 1:28:12Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 1:28:12Joe Rogan?

  And I learned like and that my body grew strong, my tendons grew strong from hitting this hundred and fifty pound heavy bag every day, like as a little kid.

• 1:28:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:28:23Joe Rogan?

  Just whap, whap, whap. And I basically lived in the gym, so I was kicking that bag hours every day. I was just constantly setting it up and training. I was constantly setting up moves until I got him like where it's like instinctive, like I didn't even know it was happening before it happened. Like when I was in a fight, it would just come out.

• 1:28:39Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 1:28:40Joe Rogan?

  Like when you see the opening, you're not even seeing it, you're just moving.

• 1:28:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:28:43Joe Rogan?

  It's like it all goes into this.

• 1:28:45Speaker 03

  Instinct.

• 1:28:45Joe Rogan?

  And the only way that happens is just insane hours, insane hours, constant dedication.

• 1:28:52Speaker 03

  But as, but as your body was growing.

• 1:28:55Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:28:55Speaker 03

  And you're putting that, the stressors on it.

• 1:28:57Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 1:28:58Speaker 03

  Those movements on it, your body adapted essentially. So it's like, if you're already mature, your body wouldn't have adapted the same as it did. Because you're doing it at the perfect age.

• 1:29:08Joe Rogan?

  You can get really good if you're a really good athlete and you pick up striking later in life, but you're not going to get Floyd Mayweather good, I don't think, I've never seen it. Rocky Marciano even wasn't Floyd Mayweather level. He was just a mauler. He would just. And he would never stop.

• 1:29:26Speaker 03

  Couldn't hurt him.

• 1:29:27Joe Rogan?

  You couldn't hurt him. His endurance was insane, the volume was insane. You know, he would just make guys rethink their whole lives because he'd be like, what the fuck, man? Like fuck that guy. That guy's out there, I don't want that. You know, like he just never stopped. But he wasn't like Floyd was an, a master. He was a master in there. He would stand right in front of you and you couldn't hit him. Stand, stood right in front of Canelo Alvarez and Canelo couldn't do shit with him.

• 1:29:54Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 1:29:54Joe Rogan?

  And Canelo Alvarez, a world champion, one of the best ever, he couldn't do shit with Floyd.

• 1:30:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, do you think that would be less intimidating fighting somebody like that because he didn't have that power, like the knockout power?

• 1:30:07Joe Rogan?

  And he also had brittle hands, like Floyd's broken his hands multiple times.

• 1:30:11Speaker 03

  You knew you weren't just gonna get.

• 1:30:13Joe Rogan?

  Mauled.

• 1:30:14Speaker 03

  Mauled.

• 1:30:14Joe Rogan?

  You wouldn't get Mugabe.

• 1:30:15Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:30:15Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:30:16Speaker 03

  You're gonna, it's, you're not gonna be able to hit him and it's gonna suck and be frustrating, but.

• 1:30:21Joe Rogan?

  But he doesn't hit like Hagler.

• 1:30:22Speaker 03

  You're not gonna be at a pool of blood.

• 1:30:23Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right. He's not gonna beat you down and stop you. Like, the thing about Hagler was, like Hagler didn't mind getting hit because his chin was iron. He didn't mind, and he wanted to smile at you when you hit him. And one of the things he said about Mugabe after the fight, they said, "It seemed like Mugabe caught you with a big shot." He goes, "Oh yeah, I like when that stuff happens. I like a good fight." This is what he said after he knocked him out. And like when, when the ring announcer was saying, "The winner and still the undisputed middleweight champ of the world." Hagler's like saying it out loud to himself. "The undisputed middleweight champ of the world." And that's a guy that just went through hell for months in the snow at the Cape Cod.

• 1:31:02Joe Rogan?

  And then he just beats the scariest fucking guy in the division. And at that point in time, this was before the Leonard fight, he was talking about retiring.

• 1:31:10Speaker 03

  And you'd have to know, if you were a fighter in his division or potentially gonna fight him and you saw that after a war and then you see him acting like that, you're probably just like.

• 1:31:19Joe Rogan?

  Bro, when he knocked down Mugabe, it was an outdoor fight and steam was coming off of his head.

• 1:31:24Speaker 03

  Oh, I could.

• 1:31:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Like, at the end of the fight, see if you can go to the, the end of the fight when Mugabe drops and they raise his hand and he's celebrating as he's celebrating and walking around, steam is coming off of his head.

• 1:31:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:31:38Joe Rogan?

  He was a monster.

• 1:31:40Speaker 03

  Those, those, I don't know, I'm addicted to these fucking video viral clips because, so now I got two of them you just reminded me of. There's one, have you ever heard of Badwater? It's, it's called Badwater 135, I think, but it's a race in Death Valley.

• 1:31:55Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:31:56Speaker 03

  Okay. So, so Goggins did that and it gets like 130 degrees where you have to, because it's on the highway through Death Valley. So you have to run like on the white line so your, your shoes don't melt.

• 1:32:08Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god.

• 1:32:08Speaker 03

  And you wear kind of all white because it's so hot, but it gets 130 degrees. So Goggins, his first time doing that and he's got, you know, his physical issues like always, but he finishes, he gets third place, I believe. They come up to him and they're like, "So how was, what was it like out there? How was the heat?" And he just was like sitting there just in the, in his chair like this and he looks at the camera and he's just like, "Didn't notice."

• 1:32:34Speaker 03

  Didn't notice it was 130 degrees. That one is just, I love that one.

• 1:32:40Joe Rogan?

  But that's, that's real. What do you got there? What was that, Jamie?

• 1:32:55Joe Rogan?

  Why, why, why is this, that's terrible. Why do they have music so much louder than when someone's talking?

• 1:33:02Speaker 03

  I hate that, I hate that. So there's, there's-

• 1:33:04Joe Rogan?

  Didn't even notice it.

• 1:33:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, there's that one.

• 1:33:08Joe Rogan?

  Here's the, here's the Hagler one.

• 1:33:09Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:33:10Joe Rogan?

  Look at the steam, see his steam coming off his head? Look at that. That's so insane. Fucking steam.

• 1:33:17Speaker 03

  What is it about just people being shredded and just weapons?

• 1:33:22Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's just inspirational, man. It makes you want to go to the gym. I mean, when I see Goggins making Izzy puke and break, it makes me want to work out. I mean, when I talk to you, it makes me want to work out. When I know that you're out there running 13 miles, when you were, when you had your full-time job. Boy, I tried to talk you out of that for so long.

• 1:33:39Speaker 03

  You did, you did. It's, it's crazy.

• 1:33:42Joe Rogan?

  I tried to talk you out of that job for years. I was like, dude, you're wasting money being there. I know you think it's a good job, but you're wasting money. But the point is-

• 1:33:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:33:50Joe Rogan?

  You were working out so much while you had a full-time job. I mean, most people just don't have that kind of willpower. And when someone does, it's like super inspirational to everybody else. We feed off each other. Humans feed off of each other. When I see a guy like Goggins, or I watch a Hagler video of him training, it's just fuel, man. It's just, it just, to me, it just pumps my blood up.

• 1:34:17Joe Rogan?

  I want to go hit the bag, man. I want to go work out, like, right now. Like, I see that and, but that's, I've always used that as fuel.

• 1:34:26Speaker 03

  As a positive.

• 1:34:27Joe Rogan?

  Always. Read autobiographies about fighters and watched videos and, and watched them talk and just, to me, it's always like been, it's like wood, just throw it on the fire. It's more fuel. It's like, woo! Without, I mean, but this is the craziest thing about Goggins, like- He ain't got nobody doing that for him. It's all in his own fucked up head.

• 1:34:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, there, there's another clip where this guy, they're doing, you know, they do these big events, speaking events. And so he was sitting there and the guy, the guy's like interviewing him, he's like, so you, you run for hours and hours, don't you? And he just looked, he again, looks at him just like, he's got masters this delivery, but he just looked at him, he's just like, out, you know, something like hours, days. He runs for days and days, so not hours, what are you talking about fucking hours, days?

• 1:35:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, what did he do like ninety-nine, one hundred mile, wait, how many one hundred milers has he done in his life?

• 1:35:26Speaker 03

  Oh, he had the world record, he did eight one hundred mile races, or like eight consecutive weekends. So it was something like that, which normally,

• 1:35:38Speaker 03

  you know, you do a hundred miles, you're banged up for a while.

• 1:35:41Joe Rogan?

  I would imagine.

• 1:35:42Speaker 03

  A hundred miles is a lot. So he's doing them, I think it was eight consecutive weekends.

• 1:35:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, most people can't even do eight marathons.

• 1:35:50Speaker 03

  Oh, God, dude, eight marathons, yeah.

• 1:35:53Joe Rogan?

  Did you ever see Eddie Ift?

• 1:35:55Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:35:55Joe Rogan?

  Or, excuse me, Eddie Izzard.

• 1:35:57Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:35:57Joe Rogan?

  Shout, shout out to Eddie Ift. Um, Eddie Izzard, uh, the comedian from the UK who likes to wear women's clothes. He did this thing in sometime in the two thousands where he ran a marathon every day and he had no training. He wasn't in shape at all, he just did it through sheer will.

• 1:36:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:36:19Joe Rogan?

  And I think he did it like twenty-nine days in a row, like something insane like that.

• 1:36:23Speaker 04

  He did it twice.

• 1:36:24Joe Rogan?

  He did it twice. Okay, he's completed forty-three marathons in fifty-one days, that's in two thousand and nine.

• 1:36:31Speaker 03

  And then.

• 1:36:31Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it says she, see, the thing about calling him she is he doesn't call himself she. He still refers to himself as E- as Eddie.

• 1:36:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:36:40Joe Rogan?

  And he says, I'm a he, and I like ladies. Um, I don't know why they're saying she unless he's changed things since, or she's changed, whatever. Either way, respect, super cool person too.

• 1:36:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:36:53Joe Rogan?

  Um, done two podcasts with him, her, the, them, whatever the fuck it is. I love him to death, but, uh, one of them, while he was on a treadmill, like.

• 1:37:02Speaker 03

  Really?

• 1:37:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he was a he at the time, so I was allowed to say he, uh, at the time.

• 1:37:06Speaker 03

  I'm glad you're getting this all worked out.

• 1:37:09Joe Rogan?

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• 1:38:32Joe Rogan?

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• 1:39:16Joe Rogan?

  That's better H E L P dot com. When he is he and she and... I think I did his podcast and he was doing podcasts while he was on a treadmill. And he was running like hundreds of miles. He's like... You know, but just through force of will completed, oh, it's her latest endurance. Look at that Eddie Izzard completes her late, like, what are we doing? This time thirty two marathons in thirty one days.

• 1:39:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:39:44Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:39:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's a.

• 1:39:48Joe Rogan?

  It's so kooky.

• 1:39:50Speaker 03

  It is, uh, well.

• 1:39:51Joe Rogan?

  But I mean, that's really impressive, too, because this is a person that's not in shape. Like, when they started doing it. When he started doing the first marathon, when he ran all around the UK and ran like a marathon a day. There's a documentary about it, and the documentary is pretty incredible because he's not in shape at all. And he's just breaking himself down and his feet are falling apart.

• 1:40:12Speaker 03

  I bet.

• 1:40:13Joe Rogan?

  It's all, like, the bottom of his feet are just raw. It's just blood and tissues and they've got gauze wrapped in between the toes. It's oozing. I mean, they're just destroyed.

• 1:40:23Speaker 03

  I bet.

• 1:40:24Joe Rogan?

  One day he had to take a day off because it was that bad.

• 1:40:27Speaker 03

  You think about it, because that was one of the questions I did this podcast about this Coca Dona race coming up. And they said, you know, how many steps do you think it'll take to finish the race? So, and that, that just reminds me of, um, so if it's two hundred fifty miles, it's, my guess was it's generally about two thousand steps a mile. So five hundred thousand steps. But point is, is five hundred thousand steps on your feet. That's going to cause some damage.

• 1:40:53Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:40:54Speaker 03

  You know what I mean? So part of this training for big multi-day ultras is time on feet. Like, I, because I was injured, I, I couldn't train like I normally train. So I'm like, okay, I'm just going to go out and spend time on my feet. And so I did last week a hundred and fifty miles, which was twenty two miles a day. But I couldn't run because I've been injured. So it was like I was power hiking and kind of a slow run. So it took fucking forever, but I'm just like, time on my feet. So I was out there to do that. I was thirty seven hours of training last week.

• 1:41:28Joe Rogan?

  So your foot must be getting worse, if that's the case, if you couldn't run.

• 1:41:31Speaker 03

  That was my hamstring.

• 1:41:31Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 1:41:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, so my, because I was in, like, the best shape I've ever been in was supposed to, I was going to go to Boston and get my best marathon time. Everything was tracking good. Me and Tru were training, running hard. He was just like, I'm on one of his videos, he's like. My goal is to get in the two thirties for the marathon for him and he's like, but actually I think that should be your goal because I can't keep up with you. I was running so good. And then tweaked the hamstring. So now if I try to open up and run like a six minute mile, it kind of re aggravates it. So I've been trying to be patient, not push it, but I needed time on my feet was my point. Because just as Eddie illustrated in that, if your, if your feet aren't toughened up, that's, that's your contact point.

• 1:42:17Speaker 03

  And that's why you run with no socks on too, right? Yeah, right. You want them to get kind of like a brace. But still, it's still, it's like that so many steps on your body. So there's, there's joints like, there's this great documentary that just came out on last year's Cogadona 250. And it's called The Chase because they, they went with four, like four guys. Is there any of the chase? Yeah. And it's really good, but the four guys they follow here, um. Brother looks like hell. Yeah. All those people in hell together. Yeah. So that's, that's, yeah, photographer there. That's a Mike McKnight right there. All these legends of two hundreds.

• 1:43:00Speaker 03

  I saw someone climbing a mountain here. Yeah. What is that? Is that part of it? Shut the fuck up. Is that part of it? That's in the same country, but that's just one of the key runners. That's what he does during his runs. What? Yeah. During his runs. Yeah. Take a little break. He climbed, he climbed all the way, he climbs in the, in the film, he climbs this whole fucking thing to the top. Oh my God. There's people that are different. Yeah, they, but the point is, is like, that's the guy who is climbing right there. What an animal. Yeah, these guys are just studs, but the, but here's the thing. So they had these guys, Jeff Browning right there, legend. He's won like 30 hundred mile races. That's Joe Stringbean, McConaughey. What's the guy's name that climbs?

• 1:43:44Speaker 03

  Uh, that's Michael Verstage is his name, I think. It'll probably show, there's, there's McKnight. So it'll show him coming up. Right there, that guy. Oh, he looks like a psycho. No, he's just, he just. That's, that's.

• 1:43:58Joe Rogan?

  Those guys got dead eyes.

• 1:44:00Speaker 03

  To me, that's ultra run, like the dirtbag ultra runner. That's what I love about it.

• 1:44:05Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:44:06Speaker 03

  I love guys like that. This guy is like, I don't know if he's Amish or whatever. He's from Ohio. Doesn't he live around mountains? Just a freak. So you get these, these people out there to race this 250 miles. You don't know what the hell's gonna happen. Every person they just showed there did not win.

• 1:44:23Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:44:24Speaker 03

  A guy who they didn't show won because so much crazy things can happen to your body.

• 1:44:31Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 1:44:32Speaker 03

  And, and you, you don't, you cannot predict.

• 1:44:35Joe Rogan?

  Seventeen year old just finished 12th? That's crazy. That's crazy.

• 1:44:41Speaker 03

  I didn't, I didn't know that. That's, that's impressive.

• 1:44:45Joe Rogan?

  That's impressive. That kind of will for a seventeen year old.

• 1:44:48Speaker 03

  For sure.

• 1:44:49Joe Rogan?

  Oh my God, that kid's gonna be unstoppable. See, that goes to show you, like, there are hard people out there. Still, even in these soft ass times.

• 1:44:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:44:58Joe Rogan?

  There's hard people out there.

• 1:44:59Speaker 03

  There is.

• 1:44:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:00Speaker 03

  Like that, I think they showed they'd done the through hike, hike on Arizona Trail as a family, that kid who, who'd done it. And that was 800 miles is the Arizona Trail. So a through hike is basically you're just on the trail just as long as it takes. But that makes you tough.

• 1:45:15Joe Rogan?

  Oh yeah.

• 1:45:15Speaker 03

  Every day on your feet. That, that's the thing. It's like, in that movie, these guys are just battling back and forth, passing each other, keeping track because you have the GPS tracker. You remember when me and Courtney did Moab? So people get addicted to this tracking.

• 1:45:30Joe Rogan?

  Right, right.

• 1:45:31Speaker 03

  You know, my, um, I, I know my brother just did, so like a month ago, or maybe three weeks ago, it's called Arizona Monster 300. A 300 mile race. My brother just got second.

• 1:45:44Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:45:44Speaker 03

  I was just tracking non-stop.

• 1:45:47Joe Rogan?

  That's incredible. 300 mile race and he got second. How much did the guy who won beat him by?

• 1:45:53Speaker 03

  Two hours.

• 1:45:54Joe Rogan?

  Jesus Christ.

• 1:45:56Speaker 03

  So he, guy who won got 86 hours. Taylor got 88.

• 1:46:01Joe Rogan?

  That's so nuts. Eighty-eight hours is so crazy.

• 1:46:05Speaker 03

  Slept for four.

• 1:46:07Joe Rogan?

  That is so crazy. How long did it take him to recover?

• 1:46:10Speaker 03

  Three and a half days. I mean, probably, I'm sure he's not recovered.

• 1:46:14Joe Rogan?

  Ever.

• 1:46:14Speaker 03

  It's been a few weeks. I mean.

• 1:46:16Joe Rogan?

  So nuts.

• 1:46:17Speaker 03

  What I've said before is like, those races, I mean, exercising is good. That's good for you. Those, not good. Those aren't making you live longer.

• 1:46:29Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:46:29Speaker 03

  Pushing your body that hard.

• 1:46:30Joe Rogan?

  No, it can't. I mean, it's, it's like you're on death's door.

• 1:46:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:46:34Joe Rogan?

  I mean, you can only run for so long before eventually everything just breaks.

• 1:46:38Speaker 03

  The, the cool part is Courtney's doing this one.

• 1:46:40Joe Rogan?

  Oh, nice.

• 1:46:41Speaker 03

  She's back to the two hundreds.

• 1:46:43Joe Rogan?

  She's a fucking animal, dude.

• 1:46:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:46:44Joe Rogan?

  Chin, you'd never guess. Eats candy, all silly, easy to talk to, real fun, but somewhere in that brain, there's some darkness.

• 1:46:52Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 1:46:52Joe Rogan?

  That she can call upon.

• 1:46:54Speaker 03

  I've been trying to find it, you know? She came out, we, we did, I just released it on my YouTube, but we did, uh, three hours, or no, three days, we did a hundred miles.

• 1:47:04Joe Rogan?

  Look at her, she's eating McDonald's french fries.

• 1:47:06Speaker 03

  So this is a, I know, I had Trey's bring us McDonald's. Cause we, we stayed at Pisgah for 12 hours and did, uh, 15 summits, 50 miles, just up and down.

• 1:47:16Joe Rogan?

  Look at her, just chilling, eating fries. She looks like an Instagram influencer.

• 1:47:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:47:20Joe Rogan?

  You know, she doesn't look like some psychopath that can run that far.

• 1:47:24Speaker 03

  No, so, yeah, we did this three days, a hundred miles, and we did.

• 1:47:29Joe Rogan?

  This is a McDonald's commercial?

• 1:47:31Speaker 03

  I had, basically.

• 1:47:31Joe Rogan?

  Your fries stuffed in your pockets.

• 1:47:33Speaker 03

  I know.

• 1:47:34Joe Rogan?

  The perfect fuel, seed oils for runners.

• 1:47:36Speaker 03

  We need cal, you need calories and salt. There's my brother right there, Taylor. That's who got third.

• 1:47:42Joe Rogan?

  Incredible.

• 1:47:42Speaker 03

  So this is his race. But, uh, yeah, the point is, is like, we went, so three days, and I'm, you know, this 41 miles down this day, you get to the last day, and I'm fucking beat up, dude. She never, never got tired. And I'm like.

• 1:48:03Speaker 03

  She can do her ru- her little run at this like a nine minute mile pace forever.

• 1:48:09Joe Rogan?

  That's so crazy.

• 1:48:10Speaker 03

  And I just don't, that's where I'm like, this willpower, how does it work?

• 1:48:15Joe Rogan?

  Well, she famously went blind.

• 1:48:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:48:18Joe Rogan?

  And kept running and fell and cracked her fucking head and got up and kept running.

• 1:48:22Speaker 03

  And won.

• 1:48:23Joe Rogan?

  And won. Yeah, she's a maniac, but it's like, it's not like this angry Goggins, like, who's gonna carry the boats? Like a different kind of mental strength. She's got her own thing, her own formula.

• 1:48:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't know if I told you this, but uh, so I was talking to her about when you get in these ultra races, I mean, it's, it's pain is what mostly stops you, right? It just hurts so bad to run. So I said, she talks about the pain cave. Like she, so she goes into the pain cave and that's, you know, she welcomes it. She's not shying away from the pain. And I said, I go, okay, so in the, what do you mean that you're just like embracing the pain? She's like, no, I'm, I'm working in there. And so she's explaining, she's got this chisel and she's hitting the chisel with a hammer. And I said, I said, so you're not thinking about running? She's like, no. She's, I'm thinking about hitting the chisel.

• 1:49:19Speaker 03

  And she goes, rocks falling down and piling up. And I said, so that, you're thinking about that not running? She's not, not running at all. She's thinking about working. So she, she makes her brain think about making this cave bigger. And I'm like, whoa. So uh, I said, is there like furniture and shit in the cave? She's like, no. I said,

• 1:49:41Joe Rogan?

  Play-Doh's cave?

• 1:49:42Speaker 03

  I said, but is it, I said, is it the same cave every time, every race? She says, yeah. And I go, but I said, do you have like an extra, like a, a wing for one specific races? Is you work on this wing of the cave? She's like, yeah, sometimes. So she's in this cave thinking about chiseling rock.

• 1:50:05Joe Rogan?

  Making the cave larger.

• 1:50:07Speaker 03

  Making the cave larger and it, and just, and just expanding the pain cave. And I was just like, I was blown away. And she goes, I feel like I need to stop talking about this because the more I talk, the crazier I seem.

• 1:50:22Joe Rogan?

  Well, I can't, I kind of think you have to be crazy to be great.

• 1:50:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:50:26Joe Rogan?

  I don't think it comes to a normal person. I don't, I think there's gotta be something going on. I mean, me, for her, it's the pain cave.

• 1:50:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:50:33Joe Rogan?

  For Goggins, it's who's gonna carry the boats. You don't know me, son. Like, whatever it is, like, you gotta be crazy. And you have to decide, like, if you wanna beat Courtney in a 200 mile race, you gotta decide for years, for years, you have to chase that girl. You're not gonna do it tomorrow.

• 1:50:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:50:50Joe Rogan?

  It's not gonna happen. Like, you're gonna have to build up for years.

• 1:50:54Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:50:55Joe Rogan?

  To be able to do that.

• 1:50:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:50:56Joe Rogan?

  And she's gonna be building up along the way, too, and so you probably never catch her.

• 1:51:00Speaker 03

  I don't know. She looks, you know, she's 40 now, looks like, better than she's ever looked as far as, like, performance. You know, she's, I think she's done one race this year, won it, broke the course record, and now she's got this one coming up. So, I don't know.

• 1:51:17Joe Rogan?

  When she won the Moab, she won the Moab 240, right?

• 1:51:19Speaker 03

  240, yeah.

• 1:51:20Joe Rogan?

  How far away was she from the second place person?

• 1:51:23Speaker 03

  It's like, eight or 10 hours? And I asked her about that, too. Cause, cause even that, so if, if you said, oh, you got, you're up by hours.

• 1:51:35Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:51:35Speaker 03

  You just kinda-

• 1:51:36Joe Rogan?

  Slow down, yeah.

• 1:51:37Speaker 03

  She pushed the whole time. So that's what I, that's what I, I am fascinated and I just wanna know why.

• 1:51:44Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:51:45Speaker 03

  How?

• 1:51:46Joe Rogan?

  What did she say?

• 1:51:48Speaker 03

  She just wants to do the best she can. She just wants to see what, she said she's never racing anybody else. It's always just, how hard could she push herself?

• 1:51:57Joe Rogan?

  That's interesting, because that kind of eliminates the ego.

• 1:52:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:52:02Joe Rogan?

  Because instead of battling with your ego, you're just trying to do your best all the time. Your best. You're not racing against anybody else. You're just trying to do your best.

• 1:52:11Speaker 03

  A lot of people say that.

• 1:52:12Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:52:13Speaker 03

  A lot of people say that. I think she truly believes it.

• 1:52:16Joe Rogan?

  Right. I believe it, she believes it, too.

• 1:52:18Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:52:19Joe Rogan?

  And if you can just compete against yourself, like, again, back to Goggins, he's not doing it for anything.

• 1:52:25Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:52:25Joe Rogan?

  There's not a thing that he's got going on.

• 1:52:27Speaker 03

  No race coming up.

• 1:52:28Joe Rogan?

  Uh-uh.

• 1:52:29Speaker 03

  No, a lot of people have to have a goal to work towards.

• 1:52:31Joe Rogan?

  He told me he's downloading information.

• 1:52:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, what is, I don't know what that means.

• 1:52:35Joe Rogan?

  That's his own pain cave.

• 1:52:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:52:37Joe Rogan?

  He's downloading knowledge.

• 1:52:39Speaker 03

  So, he's still trying to get better, is what it sounds like to me.

• 1:52:44Joe Rogan?

  He's trying to figure out, like, he's developing his mind to be this unstoppable force, which it clearly is. It's as close to an unstoppable force as I've ever seen, especially when you consider the damage. If you go back to that Izzy video, let's look at his stride. Cause here's the thing about Goggins, one of the things you see in his stride is if you look at his knees, he's got giant scars up both of his knees. His knees are way more fucked up than mine, and I don't run, because my knees are fucked up.

• 1:53:14Speaker 03

  You did a 5K.

• 1:53:15Joe Rogan?

  I did once, no training at all. But, the, the scars are extraordinary, and when you see him in real life, it's even scarier. And, his form is weird.

• 1:53:29Joe Rogan?

  But if you go to the YouTube video, Freestyle Bender.

• 1:53:33Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:53:34Joe Rogan?

  YouTube, okay, Izzy's got it, Izzy put the whole thing up, and when you see him running, I mean, his pace is great, but it's weird, like, the way he's running, because his knees are destroyed.

• 1:53:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, and I think that that's just kind of evolved or devolved, or whatever you want to say it, over time. He's just doing what he has to do, you know what I mean?

• 1:53:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, if you scoot your head a little bit, this is in the, so here it is, him running.

• 1:53:59Speaker 03

  There's a profile that, that shows it pretty good.

• 1:54:02Joe Rogan?

  Sideways profile, but even then, it looks kind of odd. Like, Izzy looks sort of loose and relaxed, his legs straighten out. David's legs never straighten out, they always have a bend to them, at every step. You know, like, like, when you see him sideways, you really get a chance to see it.

• 1:54:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:54:20Joe Rogan?

  There's one part where you see him ru, there it is, there it is, right there. So, look, see how he's kind of, that's odd, right? Like, you're a runner, you tell me, that's kind of odd, right?

• 1:54:29Speaker 03

  Um, well, I just don't know. He might be just trying to stay with Izzy because Izzy's going at a slower pace, which maybe if he was like, maybe if David was opened up, it'd be more extended. I'm not sure.

• 1:54:42Joe Rogan?

  It's hard to say.

• 1:54:43Speaker 03

  Because Izzy's obviously struggling there.

• 1:54:44Joe Rogan?

  And also, they are going uphill when this is happening.

• 1:54:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, so I think David, it could be tweaking his form a little bit.

• 1:54:52Joe Rogan?

  But I mean, he must be in agony. There's no way he's not in agony. If you know the extent of the damage that he has on his knees.

• 1:54:59Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:55:00Joe Rogan?

  And if you've seen the x-rays, we've showed them on the podcast before with all the fucking screws and shit. They saw the top of his

• 1:55:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:55:06Joe Rogan?

  femur off or his tibia off and shifted it to make it flat again. Like, what?

• 1:55:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, he showed me some crazy photos too of like his body reacting just insanely to some of what he's been putting it through.

• 1:55:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, of course. Well, he has to stretch, he told me. He stretches for two and a half hours every night.

• 1:55:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:55:27Joe Rogan?

  Just stretches. And that's changed a lot for him, too.

• 1:55:30Speaker 03

  When you look at him and Izzy running, I mean, David's 50.

• 1:55:35Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:55:35Speaker 03

  They don't look that much different as far as like-

• 1:55:38Joe Rogan?

  Physically, he looks insane.

• 1:55:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:55:39Joe Rogan?

  And again, he's not breathing heavy at all. And that was one of multiple workouts he does in a day.

• 1:55:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:55:46Joe Rogan?

  But it would break most human beings.

• 1:55:48Speaker 03

  I think Izzy posted that that was, David does three of those workouts a day.

• 1:55:53Joe Rogan?

  That's so crazy.

• 1:55:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:55:56Joe Rogan?

  And he keeps going.

• 1:55:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:55:57Joe Rogan?

  By himself.

• 1:55:58Speaker 03

  That's why I love him.

• 1:55:59Joe Rogan?

  All alone. Yeah. I mean, there's real boogeymen out there, right? And with David, this is all for his own personal growth or what he likes to call downloading knowledge. Whatever he's doing, that's for him. It's his own battle that he does. But just to know that there's a guy like that out there, it pushes everybody else too. Like, David existing in this soft-ass world that we live in today raises the bar for literally everyone on earth. That's, everyone who hears about him

• 1:56:31Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:56:32Joe Rogan?

  knows that there's a standard above in which they have ever pushed themselves.

• 1:56:37Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:56:37Joe Rogan?

  Above and beyond. And that's Marvin Hagler, and that's Rocky Marciano, there's, there's, there's people like that's Khabib. There's champions.

• 1:56:45Speaker 03

  And what people do is they cultivate their own little world without those people.

• 1:56:49Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:56:51Speaker 03

  They're like, I, I don't know if I've heard you, I think you, like, you don't like knowing about, cer- certain men don't like knowing that there's people like that out there.

• 1:57:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:00Speaker 03

  Cause then it's just like, fuck.

• 1:57:02Joe Rogan?

  They don't like, they don't like being held to a standard that they can't match. Like, they, they don't like being confronted by, ah, he's cheating, ah, he's doing this, he's probably on peptides. There's some fucking excuse. There's not a peptide in the world that makes you work out six hours a day. It doesn't exist.

• 1:57:18Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:57:18Joe Rogan?

  It doesn't exist.

• 1:57:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, I, I think that, I mean.

• 1:57:23Joe Rogan?

  You have to be a crazy person, and you have to be willing to get yourself into that place, that crazy place.

• 1:57:29Speaker 03

  What was super cool is, uh, when Tru was going after the pull-ups, Goggins was checking in, and he was just like, all in, like, you gotta, okay, tell him to do this, tell him to do this. He's like, okay, write this down, call me back. I mean, he was so into it.

• 1:57:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he's a man. He's the man.

• 1:57:45Speaker 03

  Love him.

• 1:57:46Joe Rogan?

  I love him to death. And I think he does a, a great service to the world, even though he's doing it all in silence, he's doing it all alone.

• 1:57:54Speaker 03

  You get glimpses of it.

• 1:57:55Joe Rogan?

  You get enough to know, and especially that video where you see him with Izzy, like, oh, this is real. This isn't a mythical person. You know, this isn't the gray man. This is a real human being. Like, holy shit, man. Like, there's people out there that are just working harder than everybody else, and they'll, they're gonna keep doing it.

• 1:58:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:58:16Joe Rogan?

  And that's their grind.

• 1:58:17Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:58:18Joe Rogan?

  You know, and those people are super valuable. Those people are so valuable. The Marvin Haglers of the world, the Rocky Marcianos of the world, like, those are very, very valuable people.

• 1:58:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:58:29Joe Rogan?

  Because they change everybody's perspective of like, what, what's possible, what to strive for, and what it takes.

• 1:58:36Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:58:36Joe Rogan?

  Like, do you really wanna be a champion? Why? Because you just wanna be cool? You wanna be the coolest guy on the block? Like, you're not gonna win. You're gonna find some fucking psychopath who just lives it. And it's, it's their whole life. And if it's not your whole life, get out. Get out.

• 1:58:51Speaker 03

  It's, uh, there's another quote that I love, something like, uh, There's somebody out there training every day. And when you meet, they will win.

• 1:59:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:02Speaker 03

  I mean, that's just a fact. Most people don't want to think about those type of people. They like think that they're, they're like, oh yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm working my ass off. I'm doing more than anybody.

• 1:59:14Speaker 03

  They're ignoring a few people.

• 1:59:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. You don't work more than anybody. That's not real.

• 1:59:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:59:19Joe Rogan?

  There's no way you do. There's one guy, he lives in Vegas.

• 1:59:24Joe Rogan?

  He's my friend.

• 1:59:25Speaker 03

  I know.

• 1:59:25Joe Rogan?

  I'll introduce you to him and you just get nervous just being around him.

• 1:59:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's.

• 1:59:29Joe Rogan?

  He's on a different level.

• 1:59:31Speaker 03

  He's the man.

• 1:59:31Joe Rogan?

  And that level that he's on, like this thing that he's doing, it's good for all of us. It just, people don't like it because they feel weak. Like I, I've compared myself to him, like, Jesus Christ, I don't have that kind of will. But if I was the type of person that all I was, was my hard work and my will, I would look at him and I would feel inferior. And people do not like that. And there's a lot of bitch ass men out there that don't like it when guys are working harder than them. And they try to bring those people down. And David takes all those fucking people. And then he writes all the shit that they said down. And then he records it and listens while he's running.

• 2:00:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:00:12Joe Rogan?

  Like.

• 2:00:13Speaker 03

  He's, he's one of one.

• 2:00:14Joe Rogan?

  Like, you better shut the fuck up. You're just gonna make him meaner.

• 2:00:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:00:17Joe Rogan?

  He's gonna make him crazy.

• 2:00:18Speaker 03

  I love that. What's that? The challenge nowadays is who's real and who isn't.

• 2:00:26Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:00:26Speaker 03

  Because there's people that say things just like David says.

• 2:00:31Joe Rogan?

  But they're not really doing it that well. They're not doing it that.

• 2:00:33Speaker 03

  They're not him.

• 2:00:34Joe Rogan?

  No, they're not him.

• 2:00:35Speaker 03

  It's, it's an act.

• 2:00:36Joe Rogan?

  It's an act.

• 2:00:36Speaker 03

  It gives them this social currency in today's world. So that's the hard part is like, who's, who's real, who isn't.

• 2:00:44Joe Rogan?

  And they might be working harder than most people. Not everybody. Even not everybody. No, there's people out there that are just, and you can't, you know, you can't. Cause there's not only so many hours in a day and there's only so much time you can do. Yeah. You know, I've never done anything like that before. But what I did do when we had that Sober October challenge with Tom and Bert and Ari. Is I went kinda crazy. Yeah. And lost my mind. I was doing seven hours of cardio a day because I wanted Bert Kreischer to die. Cause Bert really thought he was gonna win. So I watched John Wick like 50 times in a row. Did you do seven a day? Oh yeah, I was doing seven hours a day. Yeah, I was, I was trying to kill him. I was literally trying to kill him. I was running hills. What if he would've died?

• 2:01:29Joe Rogan?

  Then he dies. I was like, he's talking shit. He was talking shit. He was like, that's Bert. Like Bert will tell you he can do the splits. I'm like, okay, do the splits. He can't do the splits. Like he'll tell you he could beat you in pushups. Okay, he can't beat you in pushups. But he'll always say it, which is fine, but there was something about that competition where we were all kinda going crazy. We all decided to never do that again because at the end of the month, we're like, it was bad for your family, bad for your kids, never saw me. I was like daddy's fucking screaming in the gym all day. I set off the fire alarm because I sweat so much in the gym that the fire alarm went off. That's pushing it.

• 2:02:06Joe Rogan?

  Puddles around me, puddles. Just puddles. I was just drinking water and soda. I was drinking like, like, like cream sodas. Cause I wanted, I needed sugar. Yeah, I just felt, that's what I wanted. I wanted soda. So I was drinking like sugary sodas and just running like a fucking maniac. And at the end of it, I was like, I can't, I can't. That's a part of my brain I don't like. That part was like the part that made me very good at fighting and it like ignited again. And I was like, woo, it's still in there. Like Jesus. It's been a while and it's still there. It's been a while. It kinda got stronger. It was like more, you like, like wanted to stay back, you know?

• 2:02:46Joe Rogan?

  It's like you want, you wanna start doing other things. You wanna start running and doing races and start like, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. You're busy.

• 2:02:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:02:54Joe Rogan?

  Let's not get crazy.

• 2:02:56Speaker 03

  Do you think it's, um, do you think it's the measurables that have changed things like because?

• 2:03:03Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 2:03:03Speaker 03

  Because our watches tell us everything.

• 2:03:05Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:03:06Speaker 03

  So you get those numbers, you want those numbers to go up.

• 2:03:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they say that that's a thing like with like those Fitbits and all these different wearables. Like people say that they they're, people are getting addicted to those the same way they're getting addicted to social media. So we were doing everything through the My Zones chest strap. It's a heart rate monitor and it was basically giving you a certain amount of points for having your, uh, heart rate above like one forty. And then even more points if it gets above like one eighty, like when you're in the red. And so you would just try to clock as many points as you could for a day.

• 2:03:42Speaker 03

  And had to, so you had to push hard to get those points.

• 2:03:45Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. Yeah, you have to be, you know, you're in the yellow, like the one forties for hours and hours.

• 2:03:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, here's what, uh, my heart rate is so low, uh, if me and True going on a run, we did a 20 mile run here a few months ago. His was in the 20 mile run, we ran like six eighteens, his was one fifty seven and mine was one thirty nine or one forty.

• 2:04:07Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:04:08Speaker 03

  So I have a hard time getting my heart high.

• 2:04:11Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy. Well, that's insane fitness. I'd like to see what David's is.

• 2:04:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:04:16Joe Rogan?

  Like, but he ain't wearing no fucking heart rate monitor.

• 2:04:20Speaker 03

  Nah, that's not his style. But yeah, so when you talked about that it had, your heart rate had to be high to get these points, I'd be like, I'd be fucked.

• 2:04:27Joe Rogan?

  Well, Brigham says that he competes with Tim Kennedy and he's like, Tim Kennedy doesn't even know I'm competing with him. Cause he can find, cause Tim Kennedy's wearable numbers are posted on the My Zones thing. Like, that's the thing about My Zones that was interesting is like you could compete with, and even when we were doing Sober October and we were like torturing ourselves. We were still weren't in the top 10 in the country. There were still people out there for no fucking reason other than being a psycho. People you've never heard of in Nebraska somewhere or wherever that are working harder than us.

• 2:04:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:04:59Joe Rogan?

  And they're not even competing for anything. This is just what they do. And they're putting in crazier numbers than we were. And they probably do it every month.

• 2:05:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's.

• 2:05:08Joe Rogan?

  Nuts.

• 2:05:08Speaker 03

  That is nuts.

• 2:05:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so Tim Kennedy's one of those. He's like, he's always like posting these crazy numbers and Brigham tries to compete with him. And like when he finds Tim's numbers, like that's why he spends like two hours a day in doing Muay Thai's. He's competing with these numbers.

• 2:05:23Speaker 03

  Oh, I see, yeah. See, Strava's sorta like that. Runners use Strava. I'm not on it, but that that gets posted publicly. So everybody can see the pace, the climb, the hours.

• 2:05:36Joe Rogan?

  Well, if you're competitive, it's great for everybody. Cause it just raises that bar. Imagine if you could see Rocky Marciano's Strava numbers in 1951. People would be like, what the fuck?

• 2:05:46Speaker 03

  I know, I would love that.

• 2:05:47Joe Rogan?

  Everybody else would be like, well, that was the thing with the Hagler and Mugabe fight. Like Marvin broke him. He couldn't keep up with Marvin. Marvin kept hitting him, ripping to the body, slowly but surely breaking him down. But his endurance was just so strong. At the end, Mugabe was just like a, he was wobbly. Like you see when guys like, when you see it in a fight in MMA, you see it a lot. Their technique doesn't look crisp anymore. Their head's moving too much. Their core's not stable. They're constantly re-correcting. They're not like rock. When the beginning of the fight, everybody is rock solid. Everybody's moving. In the end, there's like a laxity to the movement.

• 2:06:26Joe Rogan?

  You see the fatigue set in. There's like these telltale things. And Marvin didn't have that. There was no, there's no laxity. It's like the storm's coming. Like, you know.

• 2:06:36Speaker 03

  Across from somebody like that, must just be the worst.

• 2:06:40Joe Rogan?

  They never get tired. There's a famous moment in when Khabib fought Edson Barbosa, where Edson has this thousand yard stare. Cause Khabib took him down again and he's beating him up. And you realize like Edson's like, this is never gonna end.

• 2:06:55Speaker 03

  I cannot get out of this.

• 2:06:56Joe Rogan?

  I'm never gonna, I'm never gonna get this guy off me. I can't stop him from taking me down. And he's just mauling me. Every time he takes me down, he's just punching my fucking face in. And that's how Connor felt when he was fighting Khabib too. At the end, he's just like tapped, like fuck it. It's over.

• 2:07:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean. It's got, that fatigue makes cowards of us all.

• 2:07:18Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm. It's real.

• 2:07:20Speaker 03

  It's gotta be the most accurate quote of all time.

• 2:07:22Joe Rogan?

  And the only way to develop that kind of endurance is through insane work. Insane work, just insane volume. And then constant consistency, constant volume, discipline, intensity, never-ending, go, go, go, go. Where your body just has to keep up.

• 2:07:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:07:43Joe Rogan?

  You know, or it doesn't and it breaks. And then eventually you get like Cain Velasquez, towards the end of his career. His shoulders were getting fucked up, his knee was fucked up, his back was fucked up. After a while, he was too mentally tough for his own physical form. His body just couldn't tolerate it anymore.

• 2:08:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, I wonder what the limit is nowadays. Cause we talk about back then, and we talk about how it's changed. Cause you said something, talking about, I think Sonny Liston talking about when he was 38. That was a different 38 than now.

• 2:08:16Joe Rogan?

  Joe Louis, yeah.

• 2:08:17Speaker 03

  Or Joe Louis.

• 2:08:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:18Speaker 03

  Okay, so nowadays, what, what is, what are people capable of? Because when you talk about the nutrition, the science, the, you know, it's, who knows? Cause you said, you said something like your body will break if you push this, a certain amount or...

• 2:08:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I think there's a difference between endurance activities and combat sports. And there's something about combat sports that it's fractions of a second you miss. So, there's only been a very few fighters that fight at an elite level, deep into their 40s. The best example is Bernard Hopkins. Bernard Hopkins fought at a world championship level when he was 48, 49 years old. He was different. Cause he was, first of all, very intelligent, never got out of shape, never cheated on his diet, never partied, never drank, never smoked, never got fat, always trained, always, always in shape.

• 2:09:19Joe Rogan?

  And also, very intelligent with his boxing, was super defensively responsible.

• 2:09:25Joe Rogan?

  Never, he didn't fight like Hagler, where he just weighed himself in the fire, tried to break guys. Bernard was using like clever boxing and really good defense. Defense was number one. You didn't have to like his fights. You know, like some of them in the beginning, people thought it was boring. Cause he would hold on to guys and he wouldn't let the guys hit him, then he, but, but he won fights and he didn't take a lot of damage. And so he was able to do it deep in their forties. But most people, by the time you're thirty seven, that's usually when the wheels start to fall off, if you're natural. If you're natural. Mm-hmm. The thing about today is with boxing, especially in the off-season, no one can stop you from doing peptides and growth hormone

• 2:10:09Joe Rogan?

  and testosterone replacement, no one can stop you. As long as you're not getting VADA tested, and that usually, generally, they do that during camp. And as long as you're not getting randomly tested, like Usada used to do with the UFC, where they just show up at your door. If you just get weighed in and then the, the state athletic commission drug tests you, like in Nevada, that's a intelligence test. Yeah, right. You know, that's, that's, that's how certain guys were able to like maintain their power going up in weight class, multiple divisions. Like, for sure, there's some Mexican supplements involved in that, for sure. Yeah. And then that's different. So if you're doing peptides and hormone replacement and all that, then you're extending your athletic career

• 2:10:53Joe Rogan?

  deep, deep, deep into your thirties, and maybe even into your forties. Hmm. But combat sports are just a different animal. Yeah. It's different than just running, like you're getting hit. And like your ability to hit back is based on your ability to absorb punishment. And you can only, you only have so many times that ticket can get punched before your chin goes, before, you know, you can't take it anymore. Yeah. So it's like for fighters, it's very rare that a guy can perform at the highest level like in the late 30s. Randy Couture, he did it. He didn't even start his career until I think he was 34, 35. He's an MMA fighter.

• 2:11:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, and he went late.

• 2:11:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he went in his 40s.

• 2:11:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. Um, so what's your, what's your training like nowadays? Cause you're shredded.

• 2:11:41Joe Rogan?

  I'm doing a lot of, uh, a lot of kettlebells still, always, you know, I'm doing that regularly. I'm doing a lot of rucking too, getting ready for elk season. I've been doing, um, a lot of, uh, I walk hills. There's a, a big hill in my yard that I, I like to walk to with, uh, farmer's carries and shit.

• 2:12:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, like down.

• 2:12:01Joe Rogan?

  There's that Tom Haveland guy that I've been following a lot from Australia. And I'm like, one of the things that he does, like he carries stuff and so I'll carry heavy shit and walk around the gym with it.

• 2:12:11Speaker 03

  There you go.

• 2:12:12Joe Rogan?

  I think there's something to that, man, really like for overall strength.

• 2:12:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:12:16Joe Rogan?

  But I've been doing, you know, staying with a lot of the body weight stuff that I do. I do a lot of that stuff with a weighted vest too. A lot of chin ups and dips and pull ups and L's, L, uh, L pull ups, you know, when you do like you hold it tight.

• 2:12:29Speaker 03

  Legs out.

• 2:12:30Joe Rogan?

  Lift legs out.

• 2:12:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:12:31Joe Rogan?

  I'm doing a lot of those leg lifts too, where you're hanging and just with a straight body. And then lift your legs, you know, hinge at the hips, lift your toes all the way up to the top of the bar. And then slowly drop them down and up and that. Doing a lot of that too. And just mixing that up with bag work and all the different, different things that I always like to do. But I've been super consistent. I've been real consistent.

• 2:12:55Speaker 03

  Gonna be ready for elk season?

• 2:12:57Joe Rogan?

  Fuck yeah. I'm excited. I'm already excited.

• 2:12:59Speaker 03

  How many elk hunts?

• 2:13:01Joe Rogan?

  I have two, one with you and one with Evan. You know, that's generally what I do, but I, I have, uh, a lot of opportunities around Texas for pig hunts. Which is nice because, uh, people are begging you to hunt pigs.

• 2:13:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, they're tearing up the land here.

• 2:13:17Joe Rogan?

  They just get, uh, you know, like I got a text from a friend of mine the other day who's a movie producer. And he's like, please come to my ranch and kill some of these pigs. They're just everywhere.

• 2:13:26Speaker 03

  Uh, that sounds fun.

• 2:13:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, because they're, they have to kill them. I mean, there's, there's millions of them in Texas and I'm not exaggerating.

• 2:13:35Speaker 03

  Oh, and they're, yeah, and they just reproduce so quickly.

• 2:13:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so the good thing about that is it really gets you tightened up for elk season. You know, really get a lot of targets in. You know.

• 2:13:45Speaker 03

  Bow's shooting good.

• 2:13:46Joe Rogan?

  And get some good sausage. Yeah, bow's shooting great, man.

• 2:13:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:13:50Joe Rogan?

  Bow is shooting great.

• 2:13:51Speaker 03

  Archery country.

• 2:13:52Joe Rogan?

  Archery country.

• 2:13:53Speaker 03

  What's going on there?

• 2:13:54Joe Rogan?

  You and me are part of the owners now.

• 2:13:56Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:13:56Joe Rogan?

  Is that public now? It is now. Um, yeah, that's exciting, isn't it?

• 2:14:01Speaker 03

  It is.

• 2:14:01Joe Rogan?

  We're business partners, buddy.

• 2:14:02Speaker 03

  I know. That's fun.

• 2:14:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and Evan and and then Tyler's the man, so.

• 2:14:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:14:07Joe Rogan?

  It's cool. Everybody together.

• 2:14:09Speaker 03

  Pretty exciting.

• 2:14:10Joe Rogan?

  Really fun. Yeah, we got big plans to do something really cool with a place here in Austin. That's exciting.

• 2:14:17Speaker 03

  Yeah. Lot going on.

• 2:14:19Joe Rogan?

  It's a lot happening. Archery's so much fun.

• 2:14:22Speaker 03

  Oh, the best. Dude, I just I just got this set up. I just love shooting bows.

• 2:14:28Joe Rogan?

  You got another one?

• 2:14:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, this is.

• 2:14:29Joe Rogan?

  Why'd you get a different one?

• 2:14:30Speaker 03

  Well, I had to get it in the Sitka.

• 2:14:32Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's nice. Ooh, that does look good.

• 2:14:35Speaker 03

  So we had the Origin on that.

• 2:14:37Joe Rogan?

  Is this eighty?

• 2:14:38Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah, it's a good looking bow.

• 2:14:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:42Speaker 03

  But yeah, so some changes. Had to get in the Sitka and we're.

• 2:14:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:47Speaker 03

  We're rocking. Oh, yeah, I got a. So you said Tru Ran in Origin jeans.

• 2:14:51Joe Rogan?

  No, he didn't.

• 2:14:51Speaker 03

  Not true.

• 2:14:52Joe Rogan?

  I thought he did.

• 2:14:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:14:53Joe Rogan?

  He's running in what what's the company that he uses?

• 2:14:56Speaker 03

  It's called Perfect Gene.

• 2:14:57Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I saw Jesse Michaels was repping those too in one of his YouTube videos.

• 2:15:03Speaker 03

  Hmm, yeah. Anyway, so Origin liked you call your call out, though, so that was good.

• 2:15:08Joe Rogan?

  There it is.

• 2:15:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, there's a there's a Perfect Gene.

• 2:15:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, there's a lot of people that make these great stretchy jeans.

• 2:15:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:15:15Joe Rogan?

  Rev Town makes a great pair. Barbell makes a great pair.

• 2:15:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:15:18Joe Rogan?

  But that he's so jacked for a guy who runs like that kind of time, sub three hour marathon. Nobody looks like him that's running those. Look how jacked he is.

• 2:15:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's down to a he just did Eugene. So he set he got his fastest time ever in Boston on Monday.

• 2:15:35Joe Rogan?

  Look at that. No one's jacked like that doing fucking marathons and then also gets the world record in pull ups.

• 2:15:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, and then he just beat that time six days later in Eugene.

• 2:15:46Joe Rogan?

  That's nuts.

• 2:15:46Speaker 03

  He did in so you normally under three hours as fast. He did Eugene in two thirty four.

• 2:15:55Joe Rogan?

  He came in seventh place in the Austin Marathon and doesn't look anything like anybody else that's running. They all, everybody else looks like popsicle sticks.

• 2:16:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, part, part of it is like, I told him when he was like that little guy, I said, hey, running's your thing. Just so you know, running is gonna take you, and he hated, I used to, cause I'd made the kids run. So you make a kid do something, they're gonna hate it, right? So he kind of half-assed effort all through high school, did pretty good, was like all conferences a freshman, but that was as hard as he ever kind of worked. He just wanted to lift and he hated running. So I told him, I said, if you, if you work hard, you could run in college. I mean, for sure. And he's like, I don't want to run for four more years. He's like, so, so done with running.

• 2:16:45Speaker 03

  Though finally now, now he has this goal of running under a 230 marathon. So that's in the 220s, which is fucking fast. And uh.

• 2:16:55Joe Rogan?

  What's like a world record?

• 2:16:57Speaker 03

  Oh, down two hours.

• 2:16:58Joe Rogan?

  Two hours?

• 2:16:59Speaker 03

  Right, right over, like.

• 2:17:00Joe Rogan?

  When did that become the world record? Like, what did it used to be? Like, what was like the world record in like 1990? He did it again, Truett Haynes, Boston Marathon, 238.

• 2:17:08Speaker 03

  Right, he just beat that on Su- Sunday in Eugene.

• 2:17:13Joe Rogan?

  Nuts.

• 2:17:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, but uh, yeah, so he.

• 2:17:16Joe Rogan?

  So his lowest time is what now?

• 2:17:18Speaker 03

  234. But he'll get, and there's, there's Tanner, right? So Tanner did the Eugene Marathon in the middle at the bottom, that's my oldest son.

• 2:17:26Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:17:26Speaker 03

  With 35 pounds.

• 2:17:28Joe Rogan?

  What?

• 2:17:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, so he, and, and in combat boots.

• 2:17:31Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god.

• 2:17:32Speaker 03

  Jake.

• 2:17:33Joe Rogan?

  That's so crazy.

• 2:17:34Speaker 03

  They both wore these big packs and still ran it in, in the fours.

• 2:17:39Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:17:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, so that's.

• 2:17:41Joe Rogan?

  With combat boots, that's fucking nuts.

• 2:17:43Speaker 03

  So these guys, Truett's wearing jeans and a, and a wife beater, Tru- Tanner's in a pack and hunting in combat boots.

• 2:17:50Joe Rogan?

  Hilarious. I wonder how like the normies view that. I wonder if that bothers them?

• 2:17:55Speaker 03

  They.

• 2:17:56Joe Rogan?

  All those dorks?

• 2:17:57Speaker 03

  No, the elite runners hate people like Truett. Like the, they call them like runfluencers. Because part of it is, the elites work so hard, they're so good, and.

• 2:18:12Speaker 03

  The follow, it's hard to get a following when you're just a runner. So they see this guy and they're like, they can beat him because they're world class going to the Olympics. So Truitt isn't there yet, but they're like, this fucking Jack dork is running and getting all this. There's articles on him everywhere. And so that's why it's, it's kind of the gatekeeping thing.

• 2:18:37Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's funny because then the haters work for him because it's unbelievably impressive. It's impressive. I don't give a fuck what you say. Oh, I don't like these people. They're the runfluencers. Come on, man. The guy has the world chin up record. He's obviously a freak.

• 2:18:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:18:50Joe Rogan?

  He's obviously doing something that's very, very extraordinary. And if you don't want that because it's for us, it's only for us.

• 2:19:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:19:05Joe Rogan?

  You're supposed to be skinny.

• 2:19:08Joe Rogan?

  Fuck off.

• 2:19:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, they, they don't. So Truitt and Eugene got 25th place. I mean, Eugene is like the reigning capital of the world, but.

• 2:19:17Speaker 04

  The times have changed over the last hundred years.

• 2:19:19Joe Rogan?

  Interesting. So in 1908, it was two hours and 55 minutes. So in 1908, Truitt would have the world record.

• 2:19:25Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 2:19:25Joe Rogan?

  In 1956, down to two hours and 17 minutes.

• 2:19:29Speaker 03

  Fifty years later.

• 2:19:30Joe Rogan?

  2003, two hours and four minutes, and then 2018, two hours and one minute. So between three and 18 in 15 years, they only lost three minutes. Isn't that wild?

• 2:19:41Speaker 03

  Yeah. I mean, you get to the, you're just not going to get those big gains after.

• 2:19:45Joe Rogan?

  Right. I mean, someone would have to be a fucking freak to drop under two hours, right?

• 2:19:51Speaker 03

  So they, they did this with, I think he got under two hours here.

• 2:19:56Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:19:56Speaker 03

  And he had all these Pacers and people breaking the wind for him. See.

• 2:20:00Joe Rogan?

  Oh, is that different?

• 2:20:01Speaker 03

  I think it's Kipchoge. Yeah. He's like in white. So.

• 2:20:05Joe Rogan?

  That doesn't count as much? Someone's breaking the wind for you?

• 2:20:08Speaker 03

  Right. You can't have official Pacers just, if you're not racing them.

• 2:20:12Joe Rogan?

  Oh, there were Pacers for him.

• 2:20:14Speaker 03

  Just for him.

• 2:20:15Speaker 04

  This was a challenge, yeah, just to do that.

• 2:20:16Joe Rogan?

  This is the Ineos pace challenge. So Ineos is that company that makes that Grenadier. Have you seen that truck?

• 2:20:23Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:20:23Joe Rogan?

  It's kind of a funny story. Ineos is like a chemical company and the guy loved Range Rover, Land Cruiser Defenders.

• 2:20:31Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:20:32Joe Rogan?

  And wanted to remake them when they stopped making them. They said, no, he's like, tried to buy their factory. They're like, no. So he was like, okay. I'll make my own. So he basically made a better Defender. So this is, these are new trucks that are way more durable, way better quality than those like if you get one of those classic Defenders.

• 2:20:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:20:54Joe Rogan?

  They look cool, but it's when you shut the door on them, it feels like you're closing a garbage can.

• 2:20:59Speaker 03

  Oh, I see.

• 2:20:59Joe Rogan?

  They they feel like junk. They feel like these things are tanks.

• 2:21:03Speaker 03

  They're built, huh?

• 2:21:04Joe Rogan?

  They're well, they're built specifically for off-roading.

• 2:21:07Speaker 03

  Oh, I see.

• 2:21:08Joe Rogan?

  But it's a brand new truck.

• 2:21:09Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 2:21:10Joe Rogan?

  Instead of.

• 2:21:11Speaker 03

  I never heard of them.

• 2:21:12Joe Rogan?

  Right. I know. It looks like a classic Defender, but it's actually way better, way better. Like I saw one in the flesh. I was like, oh, this thing is super legit, like heavier gauge steel, like really tight tolerances. And I've watched a bunch of videos on them. They're all outfitted. Like you could take one of those hunting for sure. They're outfitted with electricity, like in the back. They're all set up where you could put like coolers back there, like a little refrigerator and. Yeah. And they're all, they're literally from the factory set up for outdoors. Like you don't have to do nothing to them. You could take them, do Moab with them, take them out into the fucking the woods and.

• 2:21:55Speaker 03

  We can still have Hennessy's like sweeten them up a little bit.

• 2:21:59Joe Rogan?

  Then, yeah, it doesn't have nearly the kind of horsepower that, you know, like a Raptor has or anything like that. It's like. I think they only have like 300 horsepower, 208, which is not a lot, but it's the durability of the things, like the purpose built. This guy just, so that's the same company, Ineos.

• 2:22:16Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:22:17Joe Rogan?

  That's the who's that pace challenge?

• 2:22:19Speaker 03

  That race.

• 2:22:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's, that's what that company is.

• 2:22:21Speaker 03

  Yeah. So I bet, I bet the goal was to try to break two hours in that race.

• 2:22:25Joe Rogan?

  So he did. He got down to 159, but with pacers.

• 2:22:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:22:28Joe Rogan?

  So it's possible for someone to do that without a pacer.

• 2:22:32Speaker 03

  That's what it kind of showed.

• 2:22:33Joe Rogan?

  Seems like it.

• 2:22:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:22:34Joe Rogan?

  That's so crazy.

• 2:22:35Speaker 03

  It's it's yeah, it's super fast.

• 2:22:37Joe Rogan?

  That's so crazy.

• 2:22:38Speaker 03

  Super fast.

• 2:22:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:22:39Speaker 03

  It's like what what won Eugene was two seventeen. So still like what was the world record back in was that? The fifties?

• 2:22:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:22:48Speaker 03

  That's what won Eugene still. So that that'll still win most marathons.

• 2:22:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:22:53Speaker 03

  But.

• 2:22:54Joe Rogan?

  Fuck.

• 2:22:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's flying.

• 2:22:56Joe Rogan?

  Oh, and the amount of work you have to do to get to that fast.

• 2:22:59Speaker 03

  That's what I do. I do sympathize with the pro runners. Cause the the work you have to put in to be elite.

• 2:23:08Joe Rogan?

  Whatever. You get what you deserve. This is what you get in life. What you deserve.

• 2:23:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, hey, throw some jeans on if you don't like it.

• 2:23:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you don't like the fact that he's getting attention because he's a handsome guy who's jacked, who's wearing jeans? Fuck off. Do you think Courtney cares about that? No.

• 2:23:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:23:25Joe Rogan?

  Right? Do you think she would be focusing on other people? That's people that want more than they're getting.

• 2:23:31Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 2:23:31Joe Rogan?

  What about me? I'm winning. No one cares. Meh. Meh.

• 2:23:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:23:39Speaker 03

  Well, we we have gatekeepers in hunting, too. I don't know if you knew that.

• 2:23:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, allegedly. There's gatekeepers in everything. There's well, there's always people that compare themselves to other people. And then they don't like what they find, so they try to find flaws in that other person.

• 2:23:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:23:53Joe Rogan?

  That's what it is, you know, there's just just but there's that with literature, filmmaking, music, comedy.

• 2:24:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:24:01Joe Rogan?

  Fill in the blanks. There's always bitches. There's always bitches out there. And what do bitches do? They bitch. They bitch about everything.

• 2:24:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:24:10Joe Rogan?

  Sub two thirty marathon at twenty twenty five or die.

• 2:24:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, so that he's gonna get it. I mean, there's no there's no doubt. He's gonna get it.

• 2:24:20Joe Rogan?

  He he broke the world pull up record. He did ten thousand pull ups in twenty four hours. That's nuts.

• 2:24:26Speaker 03

  And so people are saying like, oh, PEDs or EPO. It's like we're we were at breakfast after the marathon. I'm like, I don't even know what the fuck EPO stands for. Do you?

• 2:24:38Joe Rogan?

  Um, I don't know, but I know what it does.

• 2:24:40Speaker 03

  Well, it's supposed to make more red blood cells, right?

• 2:24:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's what, you know, a lot of the Tour de France people were doing.

• 2:24:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:24:47Joe Rogan?

  Doing EPO.

• 2:24:48Speaker 03

  That's as much as I know about it. So I'm like, we were at breakfast and I'm like, do you think somebody in fucking Springfield, Oregon has EPO? What are you guys talking about?

• 2:24:58Joe Rogan?

  You could get it, um, but I don't think he's on it. But the, the thing is like fighters have been popped for it. EPO is real, yeah. I think that's actually what, um, TJ Dillashaw got popped for.

• 2:25:08Speaker 03

  Oh, is that?

• 2:25:09Joe Rogan?

  Yes. When TJ Dillashaw fought Henry Cejudo, when he got all the way down to flyweight. The thing about that though is I understand why TJ did that. Cause TJ was literally starving himself.

• 2:25:21Speaker 03

  He's trying to get to 125.

• 2:25:23Joe Rogan?

  Yes. Starving himself to death. Cause he would have to cut a lot of weight to make 135. So he had this idea that he was going to become a two division champion. He dropped down to 25 and he was just a dead man. He had nothing left and it probably shortened his career. It really probably did. Because he looked like hell and then Henry Cejudo took him out in the first round.

• 2:25:45Speaker 03

  You know, when you put, so this, I'm not trying to compare me at all, but I was losing weight. Trying intentionally trying to get lighter for these races coming up. So I was my, my same theory of burning 4,000, eating 3,000. So a thousand calorie deficit a day, which is fine for regular life. But when you're put, I was also running a hundred miles a week. That's what my ham, my body just wasn't getting what it needed, but I was still trying to push hard.

• 2:26:18Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:26:18Speaker 03

  That's why I got injured.

• 2:26:20Joe Rogan?

  What do you, what did you want your goal weight to be?

• 2:26:23Speaker 03

  55.

• 2:26:24Joe Rogan?

  So at 155, then you feel like it's easier to run. What's the most you've ever weighed and run like a hundred miler?

• 2:26:32Speaker 03

  Oh, probably like eighty.

• 2:26:34Joe Rogan?

  One eighty?

• 2:26:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:26:35Joe Rogan?

  What was that like? It was hard?

• 2:26:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:26:37Joe Rogan?

  Cause I think about that a lot of times when I'm wearing my weight vest. Cause uh, I have one of those outdoorsman's packs.

• 2:26:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:26:44Joe Rogan?

  So it's got the post on the back and I.

• 2:26:46Speaker 03

  The plate on.

• 2:26:46Joe Rogan?

  I put a forty-five pound plate on it. And so the, the, the pack probably weighs like five pounds and then the plates, so it's fifty pounds. That's like a normal thing that people have to lose.

• 2:26:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:26:55Joe Rogan?

  It's a normal thing.

• 2:26:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:26:57Joe Rogan?

  And uh, I'm walking up hills with this thing. I'm like, this sucks. This sucks and this isn't even that heavy.

• 2:27:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:27:04Joe Rogan?

  And, and some people, they have to lose a hundred pounds. Like what is, what do your joints feel like, man? Cause it hurts my feet.

• 2:27:10Speaker 03

  Yeah. I mean, you saw Jelly Roll's lost like two hundred now.

• 2:27:13Joe Rogan?

  I know.

• 2:27:14Speaker 03

  Two hundred pounds.

• 2:27:15Joe Rogan?

  He threw his phone away. He threw his phone away. Did he get it back?

• 2:27:19Speaker 03

  I think he got it back.

• 2:27:20Joe Rogan?

  Oh no.

• 2:27:20Speaker 03

  I've been seeing some social media posts.

• 2:27:22Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think he's got a guy who does that.

• 2:27:24Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 2:27:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, because I reached out to him and it, it came up green. I was like, hmm, that's weird.

• 2:27:30Speaker 03

  I did too.

• 2:27:30Joe Rogan?

  Then I reached out to him on uh, Instagram. And his social media guy says, I'll get this message to Jelly Roll, but he got rid of his phone.

• 2:27:37Speaker 03

  Oh, good.

• 2:27:38Joe Rogan?

  Cause he had the same phone forever and you know, years of drinking in bars and giving out his number, cause he's so nice. He give out his number to everybody. And apparently everybody is just blowing his phone up all day long and he's a superstar now and it's just like.

• 2:27:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:27:52Joe Rogan?

  Overwhelming. And I think, like a lot of people, he was dealing with social media addiction, I'm sure.

• 2:27:58Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:27:59Joe Rogan?

  You know, and then he's on this path to lose weight and get healthy and so.

• 2:28:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:28:04Joe Rogan?

  He just decided chuck that phone away. Fuck these phones. No phone.

• 2:28:07Speaker 03

  Good move. I mean, he looks so good right now.

• 2:28:09Joe Rogan?

  He looks great.

• 2:28:10Speaker 03

  He looks, he's the opposite of Burt.

• 2:28:12Joe Rogan?

  He's the nicest fucking guy ever. He's not the opposite of Burt.

• 2:28:16Speaker 03

  Burt took his weight.

• 2:28:17Joe Rogan?

  They're gonna meet in the middle.

• 2:28:20Joe Rogan?

  He's still got some ways to go.

• 2:28:21Speaker 03

  Burt, Burt will get, he'll be back on, I, and I do have to give Burt props. He is strong.

• 2:28:27Joe Rogan?

  Oh, he's strong. Yeah.

• 2:28:28Speaker 03

  He's strong. So he uh, he benched a lot. He beat me in benching.

• 2:28:31Joe Rogan?

  Did he really?

• 2:28:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:28:32Joe Rogan?

  What did he bench?

• 2:28:34Speaker 03

  He did like two twenty-five, like. Thirteen ti- ten times, something like that?

• 2:28:39Joe Rogan?

  Damn.

• 2:28:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:28:40Joe Rogan?

  That's impressive, cuz back in the sober October days, when I'm talking about, when we had that challenge, he couldn't do it once.

• 2:28:46Speaker 03

  Really?

• 2:28:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he couldn't do 225 once. Cuz we all had like this little contest, like who can do 225? And he couldn't do it at all.

• 2:28:54Speaker 03

  He's on PEDs.

• 2:28:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he is for sure. He's definitely on testosterone.

• 2:28:57Speaker 03

  No, he's strong.

• 2:28:58Joe Rogan?

  But he's, he works hard.

• 2:29:00Speaker 03

  And he, I, I think-

• 2:29:01Joe Rogan?

  He just drinks hard, too.

• 2:29:02Speaker 03

  I think I, uh, I heard him say on here that he did pull back my, my 80-pound bow.

• 2:29:07Joe Rogan?

  Did he?

• 2:29:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:29:08Joe Rogan?

  That's impressive.

• 2:29:08Speaker 03

  I know. I'm telling you, he's pretty strong.

• 2:29:11Joe Rogan?

  Cuz you know who couldn't pull back my bow? Alexander Gustafson.

• 2:29:14Speaker 03

  Really?

• 2:29:14Joe Rogan?

  He fought in the UFC at 205.

• 2:29:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's huge.

• 2:29:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he couldn't pull the bow back.

• 2:29:18Speaker 03

  Pulling a bow-

• 2:29:18Joe Rogan?

  He's like, is there a trick to this? I go, no, here's the trick.

• 2:29:22Speaker 03

  Just pull that fucker back.

• 2:29:23Joe Rogan?

  Pull that fucker back.

• 2:29:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:29:24Joe Rogan?

  I do it 100 times a day.

• 2:29:26Speaker 03

  It's, yeah, I mean, if people haven't done it, it's tough.

• 2:29:29Joe Rogan?

  I started incorporating, and this is probably a good thing for anybody who shoots archery a lot, to do. I started incorporating what you told me, which was cable rows, standing up while holding a 10-pound weight.

• 2:29:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:29:42Joe Rogan?

  And it ma- it's making a world of difference, cuz I was developing a pretty severe imbalance. And then, uh, by being a meathead, I was pushing through this tendon pain that I was developing on my right lower side, from just stabilizing and holding this 85-pound bow, all these reps, only one way. And it's like, that's not smart.

• 2:30:04Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:30:05Joe Rogan?

  So, I started switching it over, however many times I pull the bow back with my right arm, I'll do that same amount with cable rows while holding this 10-pound weight down. It's made all the difference in the world. Cuz now I have tendon problems on my left side, too, so it balances it out.

• 2:30:22Speaker 03

  Perfect.

• 2:30:23Joe Rogan?

  Not really, it's not. But I do feel like a lot of soreness on that side, when I do these long sessions. I'm hitting it.

• 2:30:29Speaker 03

  You're hitting it, at least.

• 2:30:30Joe Rogan?

  And then I'm doing a lot of back extensions, and here's the big one, that reverse hyper. You know, I've talked about that machine before. That machine is a goddamn life changer.

• 2:30:40Speaker 03

  But dude, you have everything here.

• 2:30:42Joe Rogan?

  It's nice. Yeah, it's nice.

• 2:30:43Speaker 03

  I have to go to like four different places to get everything you have here.

• 2:30:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, the gym is pretty sweet. It's set up real nice. That reverse hyper is so big though because it pulls the back. It like it's decompressing on the downswing. And you know, when you stack the weight on there, I like to get about, so I have two forty-fives on each side. And lately I've been sticking an additional twenty-five on each side. So a lot of weight.

• 2:31:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:31:10Joe Rogan?

  So you're doing this swing up, so it strengthens the hamstrings and the lower back muscles. And then on a swing down, it's like pulling it, like stretching it out. And then I like to do that Dex machine where you hang from your hips, you swing down and you're just decompressing the back.

• 2:31:27Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 2:31:27Joe Rogan?

  And I've been doing deep stretches in the sauna every day. Every day. Instead of just sitting in the sauna for twenty-five minutes, now I'm doing like heavy stretches. It's fucking so hard to do when it's one ninety-five in there.

• 2:31:43Speaker 03

  Do you do the water?

• 2:31:45Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:31:46Speaker 03

  What? You gotta do the steam, dude.

• 2:31:49Joe Rogan?

  It's so hot in there, dude.

• 2:31:50Speaker 03

  I do it same thing, but you gotta do the water.

• 2:31:52Joe Rogan?

  Are you stretching?

• 2:31:53Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:31:54Joe Rogan?

  You didn't even stretch it. That's why you blew out your hamstring. Do you do pushups in there?

• 2:31:57Speaker 03

  Sometimes. But I wanna get an exercise bike in there.

• 2:32:01Joe Rogan?

  Ooh, I know people, there's a

• 2:32:04Speaker 03

  Mine is too narrow.

• 2:32:05Joe Rogan?

  That's a sauna that's set up that way. Like it's called a fit sauna or something like that. Laird Hamilton has a air dine bike in his. And he's got oven mitts. He puts oven mitts on and rides the air dine with oven mitts.

• 2:32:18Speaker 03

  That'd be sick, dude.

• 2:32:19Joe Rogan?

  That would be sick.

• 2:32:20Speaker 03

  Yeah. I love doing the sauna, then right into the cold plunge.

• 2:32:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's nice. It's nice.

• 2:32:25Speaker 03

  That's my

• 2:32:26Joe Rogan?

  I do, I'm almost always doing the cold plunge first. That's, that's the beginning of the workout is cold plunge. And then this whole body weight thing that I do to just warm back up, a hundred pushups, a hundred setups. And now I added a hundred kettlebell swings.

• 2:32:39Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:32:40Joe Rogan?

  So I do three sets of twenty, three sets of twenty, three sets, or five sets of twenty, five sets of twenty, five sets of twenty. But I do them like one, two, three. So I do like first pushups, then body weights got, and then I do five, five cycles. So it's a hundred of everything. And then by that time, I'm warmed up. It's like fifteen, twenty minutes later.

• 2:32:57Speaker 03

  Five hundred reps or? How many movements?

• 2:33:00Joe Rogan?

  Three movements, a hundred each, three hundred reps.

• 2:33:02Speaker 03

  Okay, three hundred.

• 2:33:02Joe Rogan?

  So, three hundred, uh, three, you know, a hundred swings, a hundred pushups, a hundred bodyweight squats.

• 2:33:07Speaker 03

  And then, did I hear no drinking anymore?

• 2:33:10Joe Rogan?

  No drinking, for like, two plus months now, yeah. I'm never going back. I mean, I will, maybe I'll have a glass of wine somewhere, if I feel like it, like, I'm not an alcoholic.

• 2:33:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:33:20Joe Rogan?

  But, uh, I feel stupid for waiting this long.

• 2:33:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:33:25Joe Rogan?

  Cause like, I would have these days, like, cause, you know, I have a nightclub, I have a bar. We go to the club, and we do some shows, have a couple of cocktails with the boys, have a bunch of laughs. Do a podcast, have some whiskey, have some laughs, and then the next day, like, ugh.

• 2:33:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:33:40Joe Rogan?

  And I'd be going through my workouts, going, oh, you fucking moron, what have you done?

• 2:33:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:33:45Joe Rogan?

  And, you know, and I'd, you know, do the hyperbaric, and drink a lot of electrolytes, and try to flush it out, but... If you're concentrating on improving your health and your fitness, why are you poisoning yourself?

• 2:33:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, sabotaging yourself.

• 2:34:00Joe Rogan?

  But you'll also start thinking, well, that's the only way to have fun. You have to have fun too, but no, it's not changing my fun.

• 2:34:07Speaker 03

  Goggins doesn't have fun?

• 2:34:09Joe Rogan?

  Well, he's different. He's not having fun, he's not trying to have fun. I'm trying to have fun. Like, part of my job is fun. Like, I want, like, fun is a prerequisite, like, as a comedian, like, you have to be having fun.

• 2:34:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:34:21Joe Rogan?

  It's part of the fun of comedy, is like, enjoying it. You enjoy it, they enjoy it, everybody enjoys it, it's fun. And so, I thought, like, maybe it would be less fun if I was sober. It's not, it's not any less fun sober. It's just as fun. And it's just, I feel better. And this is one of the things that I've always tried to, to tell all these comedians. And, you know, I, I bring a bunch of them in here and work out with them, and we, we have these comedian workout sessions that we were doing, and... You know, Shane comes in here all the time, works out on his own, and so does Derek, and, and Hassan, and all these guys from the club, but... If you have more energy, you will have more energy on stage. If you have more energy, you could do more shows. You could do multiple shows a night and you don't get fatigued.

• 2:35:05Joe Rogan?

  Like, it carries over into comedy.

• 2:35:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:35:08Joe Rogan?

  Like, your body and your brain are inexorably connected. If your body functions better, your brain will function better. It's like, it's not rocket science. It's real simple.

• 2:35:18Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:35:18Joe Rogan?

  It's just, nobody wants to do it. Because everybody, you can, like, you can be the best comedian ever and never lift a weight and never work out. But if the best comedian ever did that too, I bet they would be better.

• 2:35:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:35:29Joe Rogan?

  I bet they'd be better at everything in life.

• 2:35:31Speaker 03

  I would think.

• 2:35:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it doesn't mean that, like, the best person has to do that. Otherwise, you won't be the best person. No, there could be someone who's just so funny, it doesn't matter. They could be fat as fuck and be hilarious and barely walk, you know? And just be so funny just because they're just gifted. And they put a lot of time into comedy, but... If they were healthier, they'd feel better, they'd enjoy life more, and they'd probably be better at everything they do, not just comedy.

• 2:35:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:35:56Joe Rogan?

  Everything.

• 2:35:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, I just, I mean, on a different level, it's like, when I was trying to lose that weight to get lighter, I came here, the last time I saw you, we saw you at Ways Too Well, but I tried to do everything perfect. But just being on the road, traveling to Texas and going back, I could not get my body weight back down for like, four days.

• 2:36:18Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:36:19Speaker 03

  From, and it's not like I was drinking or eating donuts. Yeah, just, you know, you go to that, that steak place at, uh, the hotel I'm staying at, really good, remember those big steaks we had?

• 2:36:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:36:31Speaker 03

  And I'm like, eating this meat going, "How much fucking sugar is on this thing?" I mean, there's got, they put brown sugar on it. That's why it tastes so good.

• 2:36:39Joe Rogan?

  Which place is that?

• 2:36:40Speaker 03

  You ate there.

• 2:36:41Joe Rogan?

  Which place is that?

• 2:36:42Speaker 03

  Me, you, Evan, and Tyler. It's at Omni, Barton Creek Omni.

• 2:36:47Joe Rogan?

  Right, oh, Bob's.

• 2:36:49Speaker 03

  Bob's.

• 2:36:49Joe Rogan?

  No, this, they don't put sugar on their steaks.

• 2:36:52Speaker 03

  Something is on there.

• 2:36:53Joe Rogan?

  Well, you're eating that carrot. That carrot seems to be glazed.

• 2:36:56Speaker 03

  I never ate that fucking carrot.

• 2:36:57Joe Rogan?

  That carrot's awesome. That carrot's the size of a football. Like, where, what fucking lab in China are they growing them carrots?

• 2:37:03Speaker 03

  I know, okay, but the meat has something, has to have sugar on it. It's too good.

• 2:37:09Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:37:09Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:37:10Joe Rogan?

  I don't think so.

• 2:37:11Speaker 03

  Okay, well then, why could I not get my body weight back down?

• 2:37:14Joe Rogan?

  I think you're eating mashed potatoes and stuff too. You're eating a bunch of other stuff as well. I don't think their steaks have sugar on them.

• 2:37:20Speaker 03

  I think they do.

• 2:37:23Speaker 03

  RFK thinks they do too.

• 2:37:25Joe Rogan?

  Bob's is great.

• 2:37:26Speaker 03

  He's banning Bob's.

• 2:37:27Joe Rogan?

  There's so many good restaurants out here.

• 2:37:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, there is.

• 2:37:30Joe Rogan?

  This fucking town has so many good places to eat.

• 2:37:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, but my point was, if you deviate a little bit from a disciplined, perfect diet.

• 2:37:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:37:40Speaker 03

  It takes a while. So your body is, point is to all that, your body's so fucking sensitive.

• 2:37:45Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:37:46Speaker 03

  When you get so dialed in on everything, man, you really, you really realize how little it takes to throw you off.

• 2:37:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:37:54Speaker 03

  So imagine drinking.

• 2:37:55Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's the thing too. Poison. Yeah, everybody I know that has an Aura ring or wears a whoop strap, like if you wear a whoop strap, you know, it'll show you how much you recovered through the night.

• 2:38:06Speaker 03

  Right, yeah.

• 2:38:07Joe Rogan?

  And if you drink, you will notice a big dip if you have one cocktail. One cocktail will be a big dip in the amount of recovery you have.

• 2:38:15Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:38:16Joe Rogan?

  And you won't even notice it. You'll be like, ah, I wasn't even drunk. I have one drink.

• 2:38:19Speaker 03

  Well, if you're not trying to perform and do something.

• 2:38:21Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:38:22Speaker 03

  You won't notice it. Like a regular person at a regular job, it might, maybe you'll feel like a little sluggish. But it's when you start to like, work out and perform and run and you're like looking at these times or you're on the scale and you're like, what the fuck is going on?

• 2:38:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:38:38Speaker 03

  Crazy.

• 2:38:38Joe Rogan?

  Well, most people are just used to feeling like garbage. Well, think about most people's diet. And if they just cleaned up their diet and then just cut out all the nonsense, cut out all the processed food, cut out all the sugar, cut out all the sugary drinks, and just drink water and eat healthy, pure, whole foods, you would feel so much better. But most people aren't doing that. So they're accustomed. They think this is what you're supposed to feel like. This is life.

• 2:39:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:39:04Joe Rogan?

  It's like having water in your ear and you forget and then it pops and like, oh, fuckin' here now.

• 2:39:10Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:39:10Joe Rogan?

  Like they're walking through life with water in their ear and they think this is what it sounds like.

• 2:39:14Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:39:15Joe Rogan?

  But it's just, you're poisoning yourself.

• 2:39:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:39:18Joe Rogan?

  If you're eating the standard American diet, if you're eating fucking burgers and fries, drinking soda and eating candy, you are poisoning yourself.

• 2:39:26Speaker 03

  I went, I was coming back from a run and I don't, I think I was dying of thirst. So I usually take like a Visa in my shorts so I can buy something. But anyway, I went into Fred Meyer back there at home and I never go shopping. I've, I don't even remember the last time I was in a grocery store. I don't, but I was walking down the aisles of a regular grocery store and I was like, Holy shit, I want to eat all this stuff. It looks, it's fucking terrible, but looks, it's bright colors. It's just like, I, every aisle, I don't know what I was looking for. Supposedly something to drink, but I don't know what, but I just kept walking down the aisles going, I haven't eaten any of this shit in so long, but it looks so good. And then I was thinking, that's what most people are buying and eating.

• 2:40:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:40:09Speaker 03

  The shit.

• 2:40:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:40:11Speaker 03

  No wonder you feel terrible.

• 2:40:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, most of what you're eating in the supermarket, most of what you can buy in the supermarket is terrible for you.

• 2:40:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:40:20Joe Rogan?

  The whole center area is all bullshit.

• 2:40:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:40:23Joe Rogan?

  You know, unless it's like tomato sauce or whatever. And even that, a lot of that has got seed oils in it, if you buy it from a shitty company. It's a lot of garbage. People are eating a lot of garbage. And that's the average person. And, and then you have a doctor, like, you don't need vitamins.

• 2:40:39Speaker 03

  Oh, you don't.

• 2:40:40Joe Rogan?

  Just have a balanced diet. Shut up, you fucking slob, you doughy sack of shit with old information.

• 2:40:47Speaker 03

  Well, so here's the point, that I just remembered my point. So I was trying to buy donuts, because I was doing an ultra marathon the next day. So you saw like me and Courtney running. Normally it doesn't matter what type of calories when you're working that hard. You just need calories and salt.

• 2:41:02Joe Rogan?

  And sugar.

• 2:41:02Speaker 03

  So I'm like, I'm gonna get some old fashioned donuts, because I was gonna do this 50K. I'm like, that'd be perfect calories. So, you know where I found the donuts? In the fucking produce, over there with the vegetables. So, they're like hiding little treasures. You're trying to be healthy. Like, I'll get a fucking apple, then you're like, look at a old fashioned donut.

• 2:41:22Joe Rogan?

  Right there.

• 2:41:23Speaker 03

  Fuck this apple, I'm gonna get these donuts. So, they still sabotage you.

• 2:41:26Joe Rogan?

  Clever. Yeah, I wonder if there's like a marketing strategy involved in that. I wonder if they had like a meeting, like, look, people are trying to eat well, but we can fuck them.

• 2:41:34Speaker 03

  The algorithm.

• 2:41:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, it's like the algorithm. It really is kinda like the algorithm.

• 2:41:39Speaker 03

  Predicting everything.

• 2:41:40Joe Rogan?

  That's the other thing I've been doing. I'm basically off of social media. All I'm doing is, I will, I still allow myself to look at it if I'm taking a shit. I'll look, but I try not to like linger.

• 2:41:51Speaker 03

  So now every time you send me something, I know you're shitting.

• 2:41:53Joe Rogan?

  Most likely. Or um, someone sends me something.

• 2:41:56Speaker 03

  That's gonna taint it.

• 2:41:57Joe Rogan?

  Or someone said, well, I didn't send you, I sent you YouTube videos. That's different.

• 2:42:01Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:42:01Joe Rogan?

  I watched, I was watching that actually at home on TV.

• 2:42:04Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:42:04Joe Rogan?

  I was watching that on the big screen.

• 2:42:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:42:06Joe Rogan?

  Because uh, I, you know, I was interested like last night in watch, like some, you know. Every night is a different, if I get like some downtime and I can relax a little bit and watch something on TV. Sometimes I like watching a show, you know, a fiction show like Mobland or something like that, but. Sometimes I get on these kicks where I'm, I wanna watch certain things. And last night it was like old school fighters training.

• 2:42:30Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:42:30Joe Rogan?

  You know, and I just got, I went down this rabbit hole. I watched uh, old school Sugar Ray Robinson too, that was amazing.

• 2:42:36Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 2:42:37Joe Rogan?

  He was another one, super dedicated to his craft. Again, trained harder than anybody, but also trained smarter and he would move different than people, cause he was a dancer. He actually retired from fighting for a brief period of time just to be a dancer and performed like in like dance shows.

• 2:42:55Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 2:42:55Joe Rogan?

  And then went back to fighting, but, so he could move, man.

• 2:42:58Speaker 03

  That footwork must be.

• 2:42:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but it was like, it was intentional. It wasn't, it was all like, there were certain moves that he would, he had programmed into his. Footwork and movement and his balance, his ability to get out of the way and fi-. And you know, he was fighting at a time where those guys were fighting like every couple of weeks, you know.

• 2:43:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, they fought a lot.

• 2:43:17Joe Rogan?

  Crazy.

• 2:43:17Speaker 03

  What's uh, what's your, so you said fighting sometimes, but what, what is, is your go-to on YouTube? Do you think you watch most?

• 2:43:24Joe Rogan?

  If I want to just. Zone out. It's professional pool. I like watching professional pool.

• 2:43:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:43:31Joe Rogan?

  I still, that's my number one addiction is playing pool.

• 2:43:34Speaker 03

  So that comes up on your recommended list on YouTube?

• 2:43:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, mostly pool and then ancient civilizations.

• 2:43:40Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:43:40Joe Rogan?

  Ancient civilizations is number two. I love watching videos on these mysteries where they're just uncovering. I was watching this whole thing in Malta, about Malta the other day. Where they found these elongated skulls in Malta. That are missing the characteristics of a norman, a normal human skull.

• 2:43:59Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 2:43:59Joe Rogan?

  So a normal human skull has, I think it's called a sagittal crest. There's a line that goes down the, the middle like this, it's like a, you know, like as you're. You're growing as a baby, you have like these. Plates in your head that move around and they expand as your head grows and there's like lines. So there's a line that goes straight and there's a line that goes like this across. These heads don't have that. They don't have the line that goes straight. But they're elongated human skulls and they have a line that goes in the back, but they don't have the line that goes down the center. And they're trying to like make sense of this, like what is this? What is this? And Malta is a giant mystery.

• 2:44:44Joe Rogan?

  Like Malta is this island that used to be at one point in time before the flood. It was connected to Sicily. And they know Neanderthals lived there, like thousands of years before, you know, recorded civilization. But they didn't think peop- Homo sapiens did. But they found these elongated skulls that are different than any human skull. Then they found these incredible stone constructions. These, these stone buildings and immense stones that have crazy erosion on them. That they think is more than six thousand years of erosion. So they're trying to figure like, what happened? Like what is this? How old is this? Is this from before the flood? Is this when before the ice age? Like what, what the fuck is this stuff?

• 2:45:29Joe Rogan?

  And why are these elongated skulls there? Yeah, that's nuts. Bizarre stuff. Yeah. Bizarre stuff. Cause it's like, there's so many mysteries in terms of like the human race and and how long people have been building things. And every now and then they'll uncover something that pushes everything back. Like they used to think the first people in North America were like thirteen thousand years ago. It's Clovis first. Then they found these footprints in New Mexico that are twenty-two thousand years old. So like, well, okay. Scratch that. Well, that's not number one. That's not like the first person to come here. There's like probably people even before that. Yeah. But there's very little information.

• 2:46:10Joe Rogan?

  And then there's this like crazy stone wall that they found in Montana. And it was on private property and no one even knew it was there. And these people, they just were clearing some land and they found this fucking wall. This thing, it's, I think it's called the Sage Wall in Montana. But these immense stones that looks like they were placed there, who knows how long and there's people arguing, oh, this is like natural, this, this is it. Whoa. What the fuck is that dude? So that was all covered with tree, by the way, it goes deep into the ground too. It goes like 10 feet deep into the ground. Wow. So they're like, okay, is this a natural formation? Yeah. It doesn't look natural?

• 2:46:54Joe Rogan?

  It looks like human beings placed those stones. Yeah, it looks like it was placed there. Yeah. It's really weird, man. And look, like, there's like weird stuff about it, like that. Like, someone made that, that has a circle that's carved into it and then there's like the, the P, the, the, that sort of structure that looks like it's the outline of it. Right. So there's a lot of arguments, like that one photograph right there, that photograph's fucking crazy.

• 2:47:21Speaker 04

  It looks fake.

• 2:47:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, is that fake?

• 2:47:23Speaker 04

  It looks fake.

• 2:47:23Joe Rogan?

  That one's fake? Are you sure?

• 2:47:25Speaker 04

  Compared to the rest of them, I'll tell you.

• 2:47:26Joe Rogan?

  Well, let's see which one is fake and which one isn't, because some of them, that one on the upper left hand is definitely real. And these, like I said, these go down deep, you know, they've done like, uh, they've used like machinery or sensors to find out how deep that goes and it goes like 10 feet down deep into the ground, like. Look at that one with the rock on top of it, that flat rock up there. Like, what is that? Yeah, there's a lot of weird, weird stuff when it comes, so if this is man-made, how fucking old is that? Yeah. Like, how old is that? There's nothing else there, just that wall? Yeah. Like, or maybe is there other, because they didn't even know this existed, I think it was till the 90s. Wow. Ninety six? Yeah.

• 2:48:09Joe Rogan?

  So, wha- what other stuff is out there that people haven't uncovered that is covered with ground? It's another thing they're finding out about the rainforest. They used to think the Amazon rainforest was like these little patchen tribes of people. Well, there's a guy that visited in the fifteen hundreds and he said that there was like these crazy temples and these huge structures and cities with millions of people. And then new explorers went a hundred years later and they found none of these things. Hmm. Because that fucking first guy probably gave everybody diseases and killed the entire continent. Which is nuts. Like probably killed everybody that lived in the Amazon. Like the Amazon at one, I was watching another documentary on this the other night.

• 2:48:53Joe Rogan?

  They found, they use lidar. So there's lidar, they fly over it and they use these sensors to detect these structures that are deep in the rainforest, that are covered with trees. And they're finding all of these corridors and squares and things that seem to indicate irrigation and structures and like, this is nuts. Wow. So there was like millions of people living in the Amazon. And some dirty Europeans came over in the fifteen hundred and gave them their cooties and they all died out. Yeah. Just like what happened with most of the Native Americans. Like, most people think like, or most people don't know. But the Native Americans, like ninety percent of the Native Americans were killed by disease.

• 2:49:36Joe Rogan?

  That ninety percent of the population died off by disease, which is crazy. Yeah. Millions of people living this nomadic life in North America while the Renaissance is going on over in Europe. And these people are using flint arrowheads and... Yeah. Nuts. They didn't even have horses. They didn't even have horses until the Europeans came over and brought them. The whole thing's crazy. Yeah, it is. That's what I'm watching a lot of.

• 2:50:05Speaker 03

  That's that's your go to?

• 2:50:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I'm I'm just absolutely fascinated by ancient civilizations. And then these mysteries, like the this the pyramids and this these structures they found under the pyramid. Have you seen that?

• 2:50:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:50:19Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy. Like, what is that?

• 2:50:20Speaker 03

  I've heard talk about it, basically.

• 2:50:22Joe Rogan?

  I don't know if it's right. I don't know if it's wrong. I mean, I know some people think it's nonsense, but the this the researchers seem to think that they've they've done multiple scans and gotten the same results over and over again. And they're like, whatever these things are, there's pillars and there's spirals around the pillars and it goes deep into the ground and the whole structure is two kilometers deep.

• 2:50:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, I heard I think I heard you talking about that. I heard that I thought it was fake.

• 2:50:49Joe Rogan?

  Some people think that it can't be real because there's a water table underneath the the great pyramid. But the question is, is it real and there's a water table? Is this shit in the water? Like, is it so are that was were these people so advanced they built these insane structures two kilometers deep through the water? Because like if they look, it's nuts that they could make the pyramid.

• 2:51:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, I know. That still doesn't make sense.

• 2:51:13Joe Rogan?

  Itself is nuts. All the structures, the the Temple of Luxor, all that stuff is crazy. So if they could make that, why are we assuming that that's the pinnacle of crazy? Like, the there might be crazier below the surface.

• 2:51:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:51:27Joe Rogan?

  That is like.

• 2:51:28Speaker 03

  We haven't found yet.

• 2:51:28Joe Rogan?

  Right. Imagine if everybody thought that the most advanced buildings that were ever created were like buildings they built in Chicago in the eighteen hundreds. You know, wow, look at this. This is a what craftsmanship, boy, people had reached an incredible level of ability. And then someone stumbles upon the pyramid and they're like, the pyramid, they go, okay, wait.

• 2:51:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, what?

• 2:51:49Joe Rogan?

  What the fuck is this? There's two million three hundred thousand stones in this and they weigh between two and eighty tons and they're cut from a quarry hundreds of miles away, some of them. Moved through the mountains, like, how? So that's crazy. And imagine we think, well, this is the height of crazy. Well, you go under the surface of it below the ground and you get what what is this two kilometer deep structure?

• 2:52:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:52:13Joe Rogan?

  That's even crazy. That makes that look simple, right? It's well, then these people are just moving stones. How the fuck did they get it through the water?

• 2:52:21Speaker 03

  What I think of when I hear that is, could you imagine the hunting back then?

• 2:52:24Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my god.

• 2:52:25Speaker 03

  Epic.

• 2:52:26Joe Rogan?

  Probably, but you have shitty bows. You didn't have a nice bow.

• 2:52:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:52:31Joe Rogan?

  You didn't have a bow.

• 2:52:31Speaker 03

  Could you imagine?

• 2:52:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:52:32Speaker 03

  If you had a sick bow?

• 2:52:34Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my God, if you had a modern bow back then?

• 2:52:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, there's two things that I thought of, but you know, when when bears get old, they get a crease in their in their skull.

• 2:52:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:52:43Speaker 03

  So it was like when you're talking about that skull, I was wondering if it was age related. I don't I don't see how the lions would disappear, but I know.

• 2:52:50Joe Rogan?

  No, the lions wouldn't disappear. That's that was the argument of this video that I was watching. See if you can find any of those elongated skulls of Malta. There was.

• 2:52:58Speaker 04

  There's a whole bunch of stuff.

• 2:52:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:53:00Speaker 04

  Apparently, like I'm seeing urban legend, they talked about 10 years ago, they were on display, they weren't on display.

• 2:53:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but they're definitely not an urban legend, because this was, I was watching an actual archaeologist discussing these things. And then there was an alternative guy that was discussing and saying that the issue is with these lines in the skull don't exist in these skulls. But they were all admit that these skull, well, there's different one. This is ancient aliens. Look at that.

• 2:53:26Speaker 04

  I just Googled Malta skulls. It's.

• 2:53:28Joe Rogan?

  Just go with.

• 2:53:30Speaker 04

  They're all, that's what I'm saying is there's different stuff that comes up all the way from Malta websites to talk about it, because this is something that people would want to go see.

• 2:53:38Joe Rogan?

  Right, let's click on that one. See if you if they have any images on display, because like this is accepted by actual archaeologists that there's, because human beings have been doing weird stuff with skulls. So that's it right there. So you see how that skull has that line through the top?

• 2:53:54Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 2:53:55Joe Rogan?

  Um, most skulls have a line straight down the middle, too. That's how human skulls are. So this is weird. These are, now, also, here's the thing, could totally be a human that has genetic anomalies.

• 2:54:07Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:54:07Joe Rogan?

  Like, there's these people in Africa that have, they called them ostrich feet people.

• 2:54:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:54:12Joe Rogan?

  There's this weird genetic anomaly that this whole village has where their feet, instead of having five, like a big toe and four little toes, they have like branched off like a like an ostrich.

• 2:54:24Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 2:54:25Joe Rogan?

  Like, like, it looks really strange.

• 2:54:27Speaker 03

  And that's real?

• 2:54:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's totally real. And it's real today. It's, but it's a genetic anomaly, and it's been passed on through, you know, these people in this one tribe, in this one area. So it's like someone had it, they gave, so it could be that, right? It could be that that skull looks weird.

• 2:54:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:54:46Joe Rogan?

  Because these people were just born weird.

• 2:54:48Speaker 03

  Right, yeah.

• 2:54:49Joe Rogan?

  You know, people, some people are born with giant noses.

• 2:54:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:54:52Joe Rogan?

  People have huge heads.

• 2:54:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:54:53Joe Rogan?

  Some people are like seven feet tall for no reason.

• 2:54:56Speaker 03

  Big dicks.

• 2:54:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, giant hogs. You know, it's like.

• 2:54:59Speaker 03

  We've been.

• 2:54:59Joe Rogan?

  We vary.

• 2:55:00Speaker 03

  Afflicted with that.

• 2:55:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Humans vary quite a bit. So it could be that that's why that skull looks that way, but it is absolutely fascinating. And one of the things that they keep finding is new versions of human beings, which is really weird. Like they found the Denisovans, I think they found those in like two thousand and ten. And then there was, what is the recent ones, Jamie, that we were talking about that have the big heads? There's these big headed, like, not Homo sapiens, but like cousins of Homo sapiens that they just found these like really recently, within the last few years. They're like, okay, this is, we thought these were Denisovans. This is a totally different branch. And so there's multiple branches of human beings that coexisted

• 2:55:46Joe Rogan?

  along with Homo sapiens and Neanderthals for a long ass time. Yeah. Scientists may have discovered a new form of ancient humans known as large head people. So this is in December of twenty twenty four. The Juluren, Julu.

• 2:56:01Speaker 03

  Large.

• 2:56:02Joe Rogan?

  Juluren, Juluren, large headed people. So they, they, they took like these skulls and tried to make like a, uh, like a recreation of what they look like. They look like these jacked looking hairy cave people. They look pretty badass. That's not her. She looks hot. She didn't look anything like that. You wouldn't survive back then if you looked like that.

• 2:56:24Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:56:24Joe Rogan?

  So you can find like an image of what they recreated because the image looks pretty cool.

• 2:56:29Speaker 03

  I was, so where does hunting videos fit in your YouTube algorithm?

• 2:56:33Joe Rogan?

  I watch those too. That's, uh, I watch, you know, I watch all yours, of course. I watch, uh, a lot of different, uh, I was watching Remy's, some of Remy's videos last night. That one and the, the one right there, yeah. They, there's a video of one standing up. See if you can find images. There's one that we looked at before where the dudes are standing up and he looks super, yeah, that's it. So this super jacked.

• 2:56:58Speaker 03

  God.

• 2:56:59Joe Rogan?

  Hairy dude, thick ass bones.

• 2:57:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:57:02Joe Rogan?

  Like Neanderthals, like they were way different than us. They were way more jacked than us.

• 2:57:07Speaker 03

  He looks like a beast, doesn't he?

• 2:57:09Joe Rogan?

  You had to be to survive.

• 2:57:11Speaker 03

  And he made an arrowhead, it looked like he had in his hand or something.

• 2:57:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, something. You know, I mean, Neanderthals, they did art. You know, they made cave art. Some of the cave art, they know for sure was Neanderthals and some of it is pretty sophisticated. Whoa, that's what they looked like.

• 2:57:26Speaker 04

  Fred Flintstone, kind of.

• 2:57:27Joe Rogan?

  Bro, those things would have fucked us up. Imagine that guy in the UFC, you'd be like, oh, Jesus. Imagine the guy on the right has to fight the guy on the left. Are you fucking kidding me?

• 2:57:37Speaker 03

  Not good.

• 2:57:38Joe Rogan?

  So this is like this big, dense, it's kind of weird that we survived. Especially if you look at some of those marathon runners. Like imagine those people survive while that thing's around. Those things probably ate people. Like, look at, that's what they think they looked like.

• 2:57:53Speaker 03

  God.

• 2:57:53Joe Rogan?

  Fuck.

• 2:57:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, that'd be rough.

• 2:57:56Joe Rogan?

  Super dense, giant, jacked human beings. That one in the corner was walking to the right, far right. Keep, yeah, look at that. Like, that's what they think they look like.

• 2:58:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:58:08Joe Rogan?

  Fuck that. Imagine you walk through the woods, you see that dude there.

• 2:58:11Speaker 03

  That's, that's where.

• 2:58:13Joe Rogan?

  Fuck.

• 2:58:14Speaker 03

  What is fascinating to know is like, that's what I do like about the endurance stuff that we're doing is those people, do you imagine how far they can get in a day?

• 2:58:22Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah. Probably hundreds of miles.

• 2:58:24Speaker 03

  And so nowadays, we're so far the other way.

• 2:58:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:58:28Speaker 03

  Where if you, if you walk a mile, you've done something.

• 2:58:31Joe Rogan?

  Well, you're eating everything in the middle of the supermarket and you're watching video games, playing video games all day. Some kids aren't even playing video games. They're watching other people play video games.

• 2:58:43Speaker 03

  That's what's like, it's pretty cool to think about. We're still making our bodies go, say, this 250 mile race. I mean, that's kind of cool.

• 2:58:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it is cool.

• 2:58:52Speaker 03

  But back then, they probably did that shit all the time.

• 2:58:55Joe Rogan?

  All the time.

• 2:58:56Speaker 03

  So we're, we're built for that.

• 2:58:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:58:58Speaker 03

  You know what I mean?

• 2:58:59Joe Rogan?

  They probably had to.

• 2:59:00Speaker 03

  Of course they had to, but like, human as, humans as a species are built for endurance. So that's what I like about those events.

• 2:59:09Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:59:09Speaker 03

  It's like, this is what we're supposed to be doing.

• 2:59:11Joe Rogan?

  Well, persistence hunting, you know, that's pretty crazy.

• 2:59:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:59:15Joe Rogan?

  Where you just chase an animal down, because animals don't sweat and people do. So you can't outrun them in a sprint.

• 2:59:22Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:59:23Joe Rogan?

  But if you just keep chasing them, eventually they die.

• 2:59:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, stay on them.

• 2:59:27Joe Rogan?

  And then you just stab them when they're out of breath and you eat them.

• 2:59:30Speaker 03

  You gotta be either in open country where you can keep eyes on them, or be able to track them really well.

• 2:59:35Joe Rogan?

  Isn't that crazy that that was a strategy that humans employed, just chase them until they run out of, they can't run.

• 2:59:41Speaker 03

  Yeah. Think they still do it.

• 2:59:43Joe Rogan?

  I, I bet that's where some of the best marathon runners come out of too.

• 2:59:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, for sure.

• 2:59:46Joe Rogan?

  You know?

• 2:59:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's a, those, they're so good at tracking in Africa because of that. It's just like, they can stay on those tracks with no blood or anything because, you know, that's, that's the name of the game. Keep your eyes on them.

• 2:59:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:59:59Speaker 03

  Wear them out.

• 2:59:59Joe Rogan?

  That, that's what's always fascinating to me, how guys can just look at the ground and see footprints where I don't see shit.

• 3:00:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:00:07Joe Rogan?

  And some guys that are just really good at it, man.

• 3:00:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, they can, they can follow tracks like across just solid rock. And just looking at little scuffs. They can see little scuffs from the hooves.

• 3:00:20Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 3:00:21Speaker 03

  I've, I've been over there, you know, hunting quite a bit, and I would sit, just as you just said, like, what are you seeing? And so I would ask them, it's, it's hard because they speak Swahili, so you gotta, it's hard figuring it out. But I was there for three weeks one time, so I kind of got dialed in. But, so I would ask, what are, what are we looking at here? What, what, what are you seeing? Or it's just how grass, grass will go a certain way, and then if it's not that certain way, it's because something made it.

• 3:00:50Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 3:00:50Speaker 03

  Something pushed it out of the way.

• 3:00:52Joe Rogan?

  Even if it's just a little bit of grass?

• 3:00:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:00:54Joe Rogan?

  You just like, look for these moments.

• 3:00:56Speaker 03

  Small little tells.

• 3:00:57Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 3:00:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, so it's like, being so. That's another reason why I love the mountains, love being out. It's just you have to be so, if you're gonna be good at it, in tune with everything. You have to, you have to be sensitive to almost everything. That's how you can get within bow range of an animal and get it killed. Or find it after you've put an arrow in it. It's like you're just deciphering all this information. Some people are good, some people, but mostly it's experience related. Those people have learned, in Africa, have learned from the best trackers there are. We haven't had to be that good here, but I've, I've wanted to, to develop that skill and just get better. But it's like, it's noticing the little, the minute details.

• 3:01:42Joe Rogan?

  Someone had a really good argument. Do you remember who it was, Jamie, where they were talking about the invention of the bow and arrow? And they were saying the odds of this happening simultaneously all over the world are very unlikely. And that what's much more likely is that someone developed that technology and was traveling. And that when you go back to the earliest use of the bow, which I don't know when that was. Do you know when that was? Let's guess. What would you guess? How many thousands of years ago they figure out the bow and arrow?

• 3:02:11Speaker 03

  Oh my.

• 3:02:15Joe Rogan?

  Three thousand?

• 3:02:16Speaker 03

  I would say, I mean.

• 3:02:18Joe Rogan?

  It has to be before pyramids.

• 3:02:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:02:21Joe Rogan?

  The pyramids are five thousand or four thousand five hundred. That's the conventional. I mean, so many, so many people think it's older than that.

• 3:02:29Speaker 03

  Let's say ten thousand.

• 3:02:30Joe Rogan?

  Ten thousand years for the bow and arrow? So that means that someone had to be traveling, cause like, the Native Americans had it, the Polynesians had it. Like, everybody had it, right? The Africans had it. Like, everyone had the bow and arrow. Europeans had it.

• 3:02:45Speaker 03

  When was the Mongolians?

• 3:02:47Joe Rogan?

  Well, that was the twelve hundreds. The, the rise of Genghis Khan was like, the twelve hundreds, twelve hundreds to the thirteen hundreds.

• 3:02:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they had crazy bows. Yeah, they did. They had a hundred and sixty pound pull. They had legit bows. Yeah, they were fucking people up with those bows. Yeah. Those guys, they say that their skeletons were distorted. You know, like I'm talking about, like, I'm, I'm trying to balance out my body because I'm pulling too much. Was it the forearm would get? Yeah, everything was jacked, their shoulders, their back, everything was like tor- torqued and twisted. Mm-hmm. What was the, so let's guess, what did we say? I said ten. Ten thousand years? You said? Uh, I'm gonna say five. Okay.

• 3:03:26Speaker 04

  I believe what I just stumbled across is the earliest people known to have used bows and arrows were the ancient Egyptians who adopted archery in approximately twenty-eight hundred B.C.

• 3:03:35Joe Rogan?

  Okay, so roughly four thousand eight hundred plus years ago, roughly guessing. So, how does it get to North America? How do those people get it? So, if the Native Americans, if we have evidence of human beings living in New Mexico twenty-two thousand years ago, when did they pick up the bow? Who got it to them? Because by the time Columbus came in the fourteen hundreds, they already had it. So, where'd they get it? Who taught them that? Yeah. Where'd they get it? Did they figure it out independently to put feathers as fletchings and to put a? Yeah, look at that cool picture from Egypt. Wow. That's crazy.

• 3:04:20Joe Rogan?

  Right, so, were the Egyptians traveling all the way to, to North America? Like, who? I don't know. Who figured it out first? They had some sick stuff. But the, do you remember who it was, Jamie?

• 3:04:33Speaker 04

  I was looking, I was, I changed the question, so I went down the other avenue.

• 3:04:37Joe Rogan?

  It was a fascinating conversation, because I never considered it until they brought it up. They said, I don't think the bow and arrow just, he goes, I think that's technology that was shared. Mm-hmm. Which, which is a great argument for world travelers. Yeah. Way before we ever thought there was world travelers. I was thinking about, was there land bridges that we don't know about? I don't know. Well, there definitely was, if you go back eleven thousand years ago. I mean, that's when people were walking across the Bering Land Bridge and? Yeah.

• 3:05:06Speaker 04

  Michael Waddell.

• 3:05:06Joe Rogan?

  Oh, Michael Waddell, was it him that was saying that?

• 3:05:09Speaker 04

  I believe so.

• 3:05:09Joe Rogan?

  Look, I'm wearing the same shirt, what's the odds?

• 3:05:11Speaker 03

  Well, you guys, I know you guys were talking about, you know, Pope and Young went over on the boats and took, remember they took tubs of arrows?

• 3:05:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, cuz they were just slinging them.

• 3:05:22Speaker 03

  And they're gonna be gone for like, what, seven months?

• 3:05:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:05:25Speaker 03

  And then Waddell had some great stories about talking to his wife about, hey, I'm gonna go hunt and be back next year.

• 3:05:32Speaker 03

  You know, cuz it's like so long of a boat ride.

• 3:05:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, man, yeah, yeah. Just the people getting in boats back then was so nuts.

• 3:05:40Speaker 03

  I just know that, you know, Fred Bear has that quote, "The history of archery is the history of mankind." I always think of that. So as long as man's been around, we've had to kill, the archery equipment is...

• 3:05:53Joe Rogan?

  Well, it must have just completely opened up the door for having more kids, for being able to survive and feed your family. Cuz if you're just stabbing things, you gotta get so close, and then you get an atle atle, okay, how far can you throw that?

• 3:06:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:06:09Joe Rogan?

  But then, if you got a bow, like now all of a sudden, all those fuckers over there are in trouble.

• 3:06:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:06:15Joe Rogan?

  You know, and they don't even know yet. They don't even know what to look out for, and there's things whistling through the air.

• 3:06:21Speaker 04

  Contradictory information.

• 3:06:22Joe Rogan?

  Oh, what is this? The four waves of bow and arrow use in northern America, uh, North America, this occurred at 12,000, whoa. 12,000? 12,000 years ago?

• 3:06:36Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's why I started going down this hole and...

• 3:06:38Joe Rogan?

  So it's pre-Egyptian?

• 3:06:40Speaker 03

  12,000 B.C. then?

• 3:06:41Speaker 04

  I don't know what...

• 3:06:42Joe Rogan?

  No, 12,000 years ago is 10,000 B.C.

• 3:06:44Speaker 04

  I think they found bows in different places.

• 3:06:46Joe Rogan?

  Whoa. That's nuts.

• 3:06:48Speaker 04

  I don't know for sure.

• 3:06:50Joe Rogan?

  12,000 years ago?

• 3:06:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, see the Alaska Peninsula.

• 3:06:53Joe Rogan?

  Right, so again, so 12,000 years ago, now it makes sense that people are walking. So people from Asia could walk over, I mean, maybe it was made in Asia.

• 3:07:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:07:04Joe Rogan?

  But...

• 3:07:04Speaker 04

  Thirty thousand.

• 3:07:05Joe Rogan?

  Thirty thousand!

• 3:07:07Speaker 04

  I don't know what the evidence of that is.

• 3:07:08Joe Rogan?

  Sub-Arctic, Sub-Arctic people first brought archery, bow with them to North America from Asia, 30,000 years ago.

• 3:07:18Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 3:07:18Joe Rogan?

  Okay, how?

• 3:07:19Speaker 04

  It could just be the range of subarcs.

• 3:07:21Joe Rogan?

  So thirty thousand years ago, people were supposedly dumb as shit and, you know, like, how were they figuring out how to make a stick fly through the air with a string?

• 3:07:28Speaker 03

  And kill things with it.

• 3:07:29Joe Rogan?

  And kill things with it.

• 3:07:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:07:31Joe Rogan?

  And hunt. Mongolian people were the first to adapt, adopt, uh, the bow in the southwestern region of what is now called the United States. Whoa. Mong- oh, Mogalon, not Mongolian. Mogalon. I don't even know who they are.

• 3:07:46Speaker 04

  Two thousand years ago?

• 3:07:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:07:48Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 3:07:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:07:50Speaker 04

  Just after Jesus?

• 3:07:52Joe Rogan?

  Thirty thousand years ago is nuts.

• 3:07:57Speaker 03

  That is.

• 3:07:57Joe Rogan?

  But it's like, how does that get all around the world?

• 3:07:59Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 3:08:00Joe Rogan?

  It's really interesting because it's not like there's a bunch of different versions of it.

• 3:08:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, because see, it's the physical characteristics of this bow are striking me in several respects. So it's like...

• 3:08:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:08:11Speaker 04

  There's no, it doesn't say what that is.

• 3:08:13Joe Rogan?

  That's a recurve.

• 3:08:14Speaker 04

  No, I just mean like when they found it or where they found it.

• 3:08:16Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right, right.

• 3:08:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, I thought, I thought that they were saying that no matter where they found these bows, they were all very similar.

• 3:08:22Joe Rogan?

  Right, they had the fletchings.

• 3:08:24Speaker 03

  It goes to your point of how did that information get around the world?

• 3:08:28Joe Rogan?

  How did they figure that out?

• 3:08:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:08:31Joe Rogan?

  First recorded use of archibor to quite early in human history. Images from the Paleolithic and Mesolithic cave paintings, ten thousand B.C. in Spain and France depict groups of simple silhouetted figures using the bow as both the weapon of combat and the hunt. See if you can find some of those images. The Methylic, Methylis, Mesolithic?

• 3:08:53Speaker 03

  Yep, okay.

• 3:08:54Joe Rogan?

  That's, um, that one documentary, The Cave of Dreams. It's a Werner Herzog film. I think that's what it's called. Is that you down there?

• 3:09:03Speaker 03

  I look like it.

• 3:09:04Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 3:09:05Speaker 03

  Isn't that sweet?

• 3:09:06Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy. Look at that one. Look at that one. Go to that one. That one right there. Whoa. That's crazy. Seven thousand year old bow and arrow painting.

• 3:09:18Speaker 03

  God.

• 3:09:18Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 3:09:20Speaker 03

  That's what, you know, anytime I get those people in there for lift run shoot and Wayne starts talking to him with the bow rack. He's just like showing them how to shoot a bow and people are like, they get it. He's like, feels familiar, right? He goes, because that's, that's what man's always done. That's why it feels familiar. So it's like people who have never done it, all of a sudden are like.

• 3:09:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:09:42Speaker 03

  They're like, oh, this, this stirs something up in them.

• 3:09:45Joe Rogan?

  It does resonate, right? It does resonate with your DNA in some way.

• 3:09:50Speaker 03

  It's just, you can tell.

• 3:09:52Joe Rogan?

  You know what I tell people? It's like, it's like, um, you know, when you catch a fish, like even when kids catch a fish, I remember when my daughter caught her first fish. The excitement is genetic. Oh, oh, oh, you got one, you got one. Because.

• 3:10:03Speaker 03

  How do you know you're supposed to be excited?

• 3:10:04Joe Rogan?

  Right. Why are they exciting?

• 3:10:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:10:06Joe Rogan?

  Why, why is it exciting to catch a fish? But, cause it's programmed into your DNA from the time we were. Figuring out how to catch fish, that if you caught a fish, you get to live. You get to eat it. So you get a reward. Your body gets excited about catching that. That's that same feeling. That's why people like when they can shoot something and it hits the spot.

• 3:10:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:10:26Joe Rogan?

  It's not like throwing a basketball through a hoop. That's kind of fun, but it doesn't have the same feeling.

• 3:10:32Speaker 03

  No.

• 3:10:32Joe Rogan?

  There's a feeling of archery when you hit something. It's like, oh, yes.

• 3:10:36Speaker 03

  Yeah. You see an animal, you're like, I wonder if I could hit that with my arrow.

• 3:10:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:10:39Speaker 03

  You just want to shoot at stuff.

• 3:10:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well, I was at the zoo the other day. I was sending you pictures.

• 3:10:43Speaker 03

  I know. Yeah.

• 3:10:44Joe Rogan?

  Zooming on animals, put a little red dot.

• 3:10:47Speaker 03

  I mean, I'm driving and I see horses, cows, whatever. And I'm like, I see cows, legs forward. I'm like, oh God, I could get an arrow right in that, right in the lungs there. Perfect. It's just, that's just what you, you kind of program your brain to, to see.

• 3:11:01Joe Rogan?

  Right. But it's also like the same drive that leads you to run all these miles to be at your best. And that. Also makes you concentrate on being accurate at archery all the time, thinking about archery all the time. If you don't, you won't be as good as you can be. If you want to be as good as you possibly can be, you have to kind of think about it that way.

• 3:11:21Speaker 03

  All encompassing.

• 3:11:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:11:23Speaker 03

  All encompassing.

• 3:11:24Joe Rogan?

  Take over your fucking brain.

• 3:11:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:11:27Joe Rogan?

  Imagine if you can get those people from back then to like, let me show you some shit.

• 3:11:31Speaker 03

  I would love it.

• 3:11:32Joe Rogan?

  This is called a hog father.

• 3:11:35Speaker 03

  I've wanted to go over, like, there's, there's these people that have, God, what tribe is that? That have an Instagram page. I think I've, they wore the red stuff. I think in Africa. I think I've sent you that. I want to go and hunt with them so fucking bad. Yes, Maasai.

• 3:11:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:11:52Speaker 03

  I want to go over there so bad and just hang out.

• 3:11:55Joe Rogan?

  They would probably freak out and they saw your bow, like, what are you doing?

• 3:11:58Speaker 03

  I know when I went to Tanzania, they, I would just shoot at like, they'd put up like a buffalo quarter.

• 3:12:03Speaker 04

  The Hadza also do.

• 3:12:04Joe Rogan?

  The Hadza too, yeah, there you go.

• 3:12:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:12:07Joe Rogan?

  That's the people that David Cho went over and hung out with, right?

• 3:12:11Speaker 04

  2.3 million followers.

• 3:12:12Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 3:12:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's not the one I was thinking.

• 3:12:16Joe Rogan?

  Interesting.

• 3:12:17Speaker 04

  Influencing.

• 3:12:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there's an influencer.

• 3:12:19Speaker 04

  What's that lady doing there?

• 3:12:20Joe Rogan?

  The upper left lady, what's she doing with the Hadza?

• 3:12:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:12:24Joe Rogan?

  Let's wrap this up, Cam. Your book, perfect title, undeniable. It is a perfect title. Really is. I mean, that's one of the things that we always talk about, like, you gotta be undeniable.

• 3:12:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:12:36Joe Rogan?

  It's a perfect, perfect name.

• 3:12:37Speaker 03

  I just think it, it captures what we're trying to do in life.

• 3:12:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Yeah, what everybody's trying to do in life. If you're really trying to do something well. You know, you're gonna have some haters. What's the best way to silence haters?

• 3:12:51Speaker 03

  When?

• 3:12:51Joe Rogan?

  Be undeniable.

• 3:12:52Speaker 03

  Be undeniable.

• 3:12:53Joe Rogan?

  So if you're talking shit, you just look like an idiot. You just look like a fool.

• 3:12:57Speaker 03

  Here's what I've learned. This is gonna be, this is probably gonna hit pretty hard. I don't know if you've ever heard this before, but it pays to be a winner.

• 3:13:07Speaker 03

  No, I, undeniable to me, it's like, the people I've had on, I've learned so much from, you're featured in the book, but it's like, what makes people undeniable? What allows people, regardless of what they do, to rise to the top? And it's, there's certain characteristics of each person, and what it is, it's like, they have this overwhelming passion.

• 3:13:27Speaker 03

  For whatever they're doing. It's like that's all they care about. It's all they think about. Rocky Marciano, Goggins, whoever, whoever you know of, you think of like a person's name doing something. They're under, they've.

• 3:13:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:13:41Speaker 03

  They're obsessed with whatever they're doing.

• 3:13:43Joe Rogan?

  Speaking of obsessed, I'm obsessed with getting something right. I don't think, I think the sagittal crest is actually the, the peak of the skull that gorillas have. I think I fucked that up. I think there's a different word. I was looking for a different word for those cracks in the, the skull. It's not sagittal crest. I think the sagittal crest is that thing that separates like what a gorilla skull looks like versus a chimpanzee skull.

• 3:14:06Joe Rogan?

  There it is. Yeah, that's the sagittal crest. That's that ridge bone.

• 3:14:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:14:10Joe Rogan?

  So what is the, what are those lines called?

• 3:14:14Joe Rogan?

  Uh, oh, it's a suture. That's right. That's right. That's what they call it. So there's a coronal suture and then there's the other one. It's a fucking, heads are weird. Imagine that's a person.

• 3:14:26Speaker 03

  I know.

• 3:14:27Joe Rogan?

  How fucking weird that is. See that weird, so that's what a normal person looks like. They got that weird line. Oh, that's what, so it's a. Peridial foramen. So that's the sagittal suture. And then, then there's this other suture.

• 3:14:42Speaker 03

  Lamdoid.

• 3:14:43Joe Rogan?

  What's that other suture called?

• 3:14:45Speaker 03

  See that lamdoid on the left there?

• 3:14:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, lamdoid suture and the sagittal suture. So that's what the sagittal is the line that they're missing. The one that goes up the men. That's a, look at that gorilla head in the lower right hand corner. Oh, fucking cool. Gorillas almost have like a mohawk in their skull. Cause they have those giant muscles for chomping on fucking roots and shit.

• 3:15:06Speaker 03

  And you would never, if you hit that fucker in the head, it wouldn't do anything.

• 3:15:09Joe Rogan?

  Laugh at you. Have you ever seen, um, they, there's a 3D image. We can end with this. Because, uh, people always say, how many fucking people do you think it would take?

• 3:15:21Speaker 03

  To beat a gorilla.

• 3:15:22Joe Rogan?

  To beat a gorilla. Well, guess what? It don't, it literally doesn't matter. So somebody, um, made, uh, like a, a recre, you know how they do like recreations? Like, let's find out. And so they, uh, showed what would happen. I just sent it to you, Jamie. They showed what would happen if a hundred dudes tried to fight a gorilla. Spoiler alert, hundred dudes get fucked up. Look at this. This is what it would look like.

• 3:15:47Speaker 03

  Oh, my God.

• 3:15:49Joe Rogan?

  Like the gorillas try to run, it just turns around, just starts fucking people up.

• 3:15:53Speaker 03

  Holy shit.

• 3:15:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you got no chance.

• 3:15:56Speaker 03

  Could you imagine taking a big right from that thing?

• 3:15:59Joe Rogan?

  I would watch the first couple dudes take a right and I would take a left. I'll be like, see ya, I'm out of here. I don't think gorillas are gonna chase me.

• 3:16:06Speaker 03

  You just gotta get his back.

• 3:16:07Joe Rogan?

  Nope.

• 3:16:08Speaker 03

  Can you imagine, if he did grab, get on his back, he would just grab you with one arm and throw you fucking fifty yards.

• 3:16:15Joe Rogan?

  He would grab you and his grip would break your fucking rib cage. It would just, he would, his fingers would probably penetrate your skin and go right through to your organs. Like he's just fucking all these people up, boom, boom.

• 3:16:29Speaker 03

  That guy took a couple in a row.

• 3:16:31Joe Rogan?

  Rush has probably tried this already. They probably already had, look at this, all these other guys like, oh, I'm gonna give it a shot, I'm gonna give it my best.

• 3:16:40Speaker 04

  On a pay-per-view.

• 3:16:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, why are these guys still there?

• 3:16:42Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 3:16:43Joe Rogan?

  Because they're being forced, like he's running, trying to little bitch ass hammer fist to hit that gorilla.

• 3:16:48Speaker 03

  It's not, if you get your kind of bell rung a little bit and you're kind of dazed and then you're just standing there.

• 3:16:53Joe Rogan?

  Look how far everybody flies too, when he hits them, boom.

• 3:16:58Speaker 03

  What, I, that would be a good one to end on, but here's what we really need to end on, because last time, Endure was like the number one seller and they put it number seven or something on New York Times. So we need, we, we need number one, we, we deserve number one, we should be number one this time.

• 3:17:17Joe Rogan?

  You didn't get number one because of some weird shit, it's not.

• 3:17:20Speaker 03

  Because New York, the New York Times Bestseller List is an editorial.

• 3:17:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's what's weird.

• 3:17:26Speaker 03

  If it just goes based on sales, Endure would have been up there, but they gave me number seven.

• 3:17:32Joe Rogan?

  Isn't that crazy that they?

• 3:17:33Speaker 03

  Just give me what I deserve this time.

• 3:17:35Joe Rogan?

  Why are you lying?

• 3:17:36Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 3:17:36Joe Rogan?

  If you're gonna have a top ten, why lie? You're lying, you can't decide that this one's a top ten, cause it's made by a transgender person of color. This is better.

• 3:17:46Speaker 03

  I don't know if it helps me to call them out, or?

• 3:17:49Joe Rogan?

  No. They're gonna fuck you, no matter what. But, America will know. But, on Amazon, that's not curated, right?

• 3:17:56Speaker 03

  No, no.

• 3:17:56Joe Rogan?

  So that'll be legit.

• 3:17:57Speaker 03

  That's sales.

• 3:17:58Joe Rogan?

  That'll be sales, that'll be legit. So that's the one that should count.

• 3:18:01Speaker 03

  But, yeah, I mean, the, the whole point, also, I wanted to also end on. I wouldn't have had the success with those books if not for you. You wrote the foreword to Endure, it made the New York Times Bestseller list. You know as well as anybody, the next book, if you can say, from the New York Times bestselling author of Endure, that just makes the next-

• 3:18:20Joe Rogan?

  Definitely helps.

• 3:18:20Speaker 03

  -next one go crazy. So, without you, this wouldn't have happened.

• 3:18:25Joe Rogan?

  Well, without you, I would've never been bow hunting, so.

• 3:18:28Speaker 03

  And we wouldn't own archery country.

• 3:18:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we wouldn't own archery country. Alright, let's bring it home. Uh, Endure, it's out now?

• 3:18:35Speaker 03

  It's out May 6th.

• 3:18:36Joe Rogan?

  May 6th.

• 3:18:36Speaker 03

  No, no, Endure's out.

• 3:18:38Joe Rogan?

  Oh, excuse me. Undeniable. Undeniable is out May 6th. Today is April 29th, so, wait a week.

• 3:18:44Speaker 03

  On Tuesday.

• 3:18:45Joe Rogan?

  Uh, did you do the audio version of it?

• 3:18:47Speaker 03

  I did.

• 3:18:47Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 3:18:48Speaker 03

  I did.

• 3:18:48Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 3:18:49Speaker 03

  It was tough, but people love it.

• 3:18:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they do. They want it in your voice. It has to be. It has to be in your voice.

• 3:18:54Speaker 03

  Well, Joe, thank you.

• 3:18:55Joe Rogan?

  My pleasure, brother. I love you to death. You're the best. Alright, goodbye, everybody.