Jayson Tatum, 6x NBA All-Star, opens up on self-doubt after injury, questioning his return, Joe Mazzulla, Celtics legacy, fatherhood, private life, disappointing 2024 Olympics w/ Steve Kerr, and why Kobe’s impact remains sacred.

“I’m going to be the best basketball player I can ever be and I’m also going to be the best father that I can ever be.” Boston Celtics superstar Jayson Tatum sits down with Ryan, Channing and Fred for a raw, wide-ranging conversation that goes far beyond the headlines and boxscore. Tatum opens up about battling through injury, the moment he nearly walked away from the game, and the mental toll that comes with carrying expectations at the highest level. Recently returning to the court for rehab and light work, the 6x time NBA All Star and World Champion opens up on how the last year has been the toughest in his life, admitting self-doubt, questioning his will to heal and contemplating his return this season. Winning a title with Celtics etched his name in Boston royalty, although the high expectations still move him to chase the legends who've come before him while his focus remains on getting back to a championship. Jayson was upfront about working through past growing pains with Jaylen Brown, the pressures of being a face of the NBA and the three words Joe Mazzulla whispered to him during the biggest moments of their Championship run. A self-proclaimed mama's boy, he shares a deep understanding of sacrifice, hard work and how growing up with little motivated him being raised by a single mom but candidly he opens up on why he values the relationship with his father differently but still a bond he appreciates. With the anniversary of Kobe Bryant's passing, Jayson Tatum reveals how he was inspired by the icon and modeled his life based on certain experiences and explains why he is completely appalled with anyone questioning Kobe's contributions to the game. He reflects on representing Team USA in 2024 on the Olympic stage, what that experience taught him, his true in-the-moment feelings with Steve Kerr and how it reshaped his perspective as a leader but also as a man. From embracing the weight of Boston’s historic legacy to navigating fatherhood while still chasing greatness, Tatum shares how his humble beginnings continue to ground him. Honest, reflective, and powerful—this is Jayson Tatum like you’ve never heard him before. Pivot Family, please like, comment and hit the subscribe button, we value hearing from you and appreciate your support. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends. Like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest, or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an Ultra. Because it's not just a superior-like beer, it's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser-Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 0:30Ryan Clark?

  Boston Celtics Jason Tatum is a six-time All-Star, five-time All-NBA Wingman, and a World Champion. But this last year and a half has been the toughest of his career. He opens our conversation with doubt, admitting that after his Achilles tear in the playoffs, he wondered if he could ever recover. And it wasn't just the doubt of being the player that he once was. He didn't even know if he had what it took to get back on the court. He's better now, he's stronger, he's more confident, and he even worked out in front of media members last week. There's a long way to go for Jason, and still for him, questions on if coming back right now is the right thing to do. He's a self-proclaimed mama's boy. He grew up in a single-parent household in St. Louis.

• 1:12Ryan Clark?

  He sacrificed so much to get him where he is today, but he also values the relationship he has with his father. His father who coached against him 10 times in high school, and Jason makes sure to correct what their record was. But that relationship with his father influences the way he's decided to raise his son Deuce, who truly was Jason's biggest pivot. We chatted about Joe Missoula, parenting, and why he's kept his personal life quiet. He even led us inside the growing pains between him and fellow All-Star, Jaylen Brown. He detailed how difficult the 2024 Olympics were for him, and why he takes the insults hurled at his idol Kobe Bryant very personally.

• 1:57Ryan Clark?

  This one hits different. Jason is honest, he's transparent, he's humble, endearing, and real, and we are blessed and honored to have him sitting with the pivot right now.

• 2:28Channing Crowder?

  That what it is. See, y'all, y'all look at us funny because our light skins are aggressive.

• 2:32Ryan Clark?

  None of y'all are aggressive. Y'all are not aggressive.

• 2:35Channing Crowder?

  That's, that's, that's the misnomer that y'all know.

• 2:39Ryan Clark?

  What up, my brother? Ah, good to see you, boy.

• 2:41Channing Crowder?

  See, that's how we still sneaking up on y'all.

• 2:43Ryan Clark?

  First off, none of y'all are sneaking up on us, especially in the NBA because it's really more of them than anything now in the damn All-Star game. So, that's not it. Jason Tatum, man, welcome to the Pivot. This is Channing Crowder, Fred Taylor, Ryan Clark. Pivot fam, thank y'all for pivoting with us. I mean, six-time All-Star, man, five-time All-NBA Olympic gold medalist. I mean, the list goes on and on. You know, we've texted a little bit, though. You have all of that success, and then you have the injury on Father's Day, already scored 42. What has this process been like since the injury?

• 3:21Speaker 03

  What has it been like? I mean, I feel like I could write a book about everything that I've experienced and went through. It's, it's, it's different phases. You know, disbelief, shock, disappointment, doubt, all those things initially. Because you, you never expect that it's gonna happen to you. And then you go through the emotions of like life. Like, I couldn't walk up steps. I had to live with my mom. I needed help with everything. So, being a man and being so independent, and then the next day, you know, I got a shower seat. I got a scooter. You know, you just need help with everything. And it's kind of like, you know, one day I felt like Superman.

• 4:02Speaker 03

  And then the next day, I felt like the smallest man on earth. And it's been a struggle. I will say the one thing that I kind of like learned about myself. You know, yesterday was thirty-six weeks since I had surgery. And I can honestly say I'm like proud of myself because the day, the day I had surgery, I remember like I didn't think I could do it. I didn't think that I could go through rehab. And it was the first time I ever like doubted myself. And that was, it was tough to like admit that because you know, ever since I've been a kid, I always believed I was gonna be exactly who I am.

• 4:43Speaker 03

  So, you know, I'm proud that I even got to this point of the journey.

• 4:48Ryan Clark?

  Why did you doubt yourself though? If you would always been so self-assured that you would be everything you wanted to be?

• 4:57Speaker 03

  I think, man, sitting in that doctor's office and seeing the doctor put the MRI scan and seeing that, you know, line through my tendon. I just remember sitting there and I broke down crying. And I remember just like, I remember saying like, man, I can't do this. And I, cause I just knew how hard it was gonna be. I knew like you worked your whole life to get, I felt like this was the best version of Jason Tatum has ever been. And now it's like, damn, I gotta start over. And I remember like saying, I can't, like, I can't do this. And I remember my mom like wiping my face and was like, yo, like, don't ever say you can't do something like your whole life. You've done everything you said, you know, you set out to do. I'm gonna be here with you like I've always been.

• 5:43Speaker 03

  Like, we gonna figure this shit out together. And, you know, it took time. Like, I, like, it was a few weeks where I, I thought about like, damn, did I make enough money? Did I accomplish enough? Like, this might be, like, there was some moments just like laying in my mom's house and my foot up where I thought like, damn, this might, like, I might be done.

• 6:05Ryan Clark?

  Damn. How was it like moving forward?

• 6:09Channing Crowder?

  I played with Zach Thomas, who's Hall of Famer. And he got hurt and he was still taking notes and giving me notebooks full of notes for a game. Whereas like he couldn't let it go mentally, even though physically he know he can do it when he got hurt. What was like, how could, could you turn the switch off? Or did you still have to, you still had the basketball?

• 6:31Speaker 03

  I was done with basketball when I got hurt. Like, I, I felt like betrayed. In a sense, like I felt betrayed by the game. Like, I never, like, I was never one of those guys that like, I never cheated the game. I never took it with a grain at. I used to, I used to wake up at 5:30 in the morning when I was in high school and work out like before school. Like, I felt that growing up in St. Louis and single parent household, like I felt like I was behind already. Like, I didn't come from a New York or a Florida or a California. Like, so I felt I already was behind other players like around the country. So I did everything possible to like maximize my God given ability. You know, I never wanted to miss game. I never missed a playoff game.

• 7:15Speaker 03

  I, I, you know, I didn't do load management. Like, I was, I led the league in minutes since I came into the league. So it just didn't feel fair that, you know, that happened to me. So I remember like, I didn't, couldn't watch the rest of the playoffs. I ain't want to talk about basketball. Like, I really thought like, I felt betrayed and I needed some time. Like, I needed some time away from the game.

• 7:41Fred Taylor?

  When I saw it happen to you, man, during the playoffs, I was like, considering the timing and the nature of it, that whole deal, you see Damon, you see Halle Burton, it eventually happened to. And you never want to see that happen to a basketball player, certainly the Achilles. In football, it's knee or neck. Like, those are the injuries that's most concerning for us. In basketball, I believe it's the Achilles. Is that one of the things that led you down that road to create that doubt because of the injury itself?

• 8:13Speaker 03

  I mean, yeah, like as an athlete, as a basketball player, it's like, growing up, you worry about your knee and your Achilles. Like, those, the two things you never want to see go. And, you know, it was always looked upon as like one of the worst injuries you could have. And, you know, I Calf ISO hose and calf raises every day I was in the weight room like, you know, I always stayed on top of those things. I can honestly say that like KD is a big reason why like, you know, that narrative has kind of changed that, you know, even he was older than me when he did it and he still returned to being, you know, exactly who he is. So, you know, somebody I'm super close with and I have talked to,

• 8:55Speaker 03

  but just the way he went about it and the way that he came back, you know, really changed the narrative around that injury and gave people like myself hope that like, oh, you can come back and be yourself or be better or whatever the case may be.

• 9:10Fred Taylor?

  Is that more so seeing what he's done or actual conversations that you two have had?

• 9:15Speaker 03

  A little bit of both. I done spent a lot of time with him like, you know, we won two gold medals together and I just, you know, I remember when he came back and, you know, this was besides like Dominique Wilkins and that was before my time. This was probably the most high profile player that had this injury. So, everybody was aware of, you know, what he was gonna look like and, you know, he didn't miss a beat and that was very like reassuring to see and, and gave myself confidence and, you know, other guys throughout this, you know, injury.

• 9:47Ryan Clark?

  You know, I want to go back a little further because I think this, being able to come back from this injury says a lot about who a person is. And I think first before your physical comes back, your spirit has to. You know, you mentioned growing up in St. Louis and being in a single parent household. You know, you went to class with your mom when she was going to school and raising you. And you had these conversations about don't let anybody tell you what you can't be. How much though did being with her help you through this time? And when was it that it clicked that, hey, man, I'm gonna come back and be Jason Taylor?

• 10:30Speaker 03

  Me and my mom is my best friend, right? She's been in Boston ever since I got drafted. She's helped me in every which way, you know, to help me be the best player I could be, the best person, the best father. Like, my mom is, you know, the reason for all of it. And, you know, I'm very fortunate that I have somebody that lives that close to me that I could go live with for 10 weeks. And, you know, she was just being mama, right? I think throughout this process, there's little things that, right? You know, when I first there at land, at my mom's house and like, I wasn't thinking about, damn, I can't wait to play basketball. It was like, I want to be able to walk again. Like, I want to be able to feel confident walking up steps.

• 11:13Speaker 03

  So, there's little benchmarks, I guess, that you hit. Like, I remember the first time, you know, I was able to like, feel like I could press like on the gas pedal.

• 11:24Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 11:24Speaker 03

  And it's just like, alright, it's coming back to me. And the first time I walked, the first time I did a single leg jump, the first time, you know, I jogged up and down the court. Just little things like that that were just like, alright, like, I can see a light at the end of this tunnel.

• 11:40Ryan Clark?

  First off, your coach said the other day, they asked him about you working out and the media saw you. And they say, yeah, you know, what's the timeline on JT? And he was like, I failed out of medical school. What is up with Joe Missoula, bro? Like, what type of dude is he for real?

• 11:55Speaker 03

  It's real. Like, the person that y'all see in the interviews and the clips, like, that's exactly who he is. Joe is, uh, is one of the best people I've ever been around. One of the best, genuine, fierce, like, he's an ultimate competitor, right? He wants to win at all costs. One of the toughest guys I've ever met. But more than that, he like, he cares about every single person in that locker room, on staff, in that organization. And, you know, we've all played for different coaches and I'm certain you had different experiences with different coaches. And I think it means a little bit more when they care about you like as a person. And that's exactly who Joe is.

• 12:33Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, well, he didn't because he had Mike Tomlin his whole goddamn career. He was a raggedy bitch.

• 12:40Channing Crowder?

  But bro, talking about the coach you had, Stevens, then you had Udoka, and now Missoula. How was it like being the star, being the face of a franchise, when it changes over? Because personally, like, I went from de-coordinator, de-coordinator, and some dude walked in, Paul Pascaloni, and I was like, this dude doesn't know what he's talking about. Going from other people. But you've had some hell of a five coaches. We see what Udoka's doing now in Houston. So going from coach to coach, what does the face of a franchise has to do when you change coaches?

• 13:12Speaker 03

  I think it really speaks value to the Celtics, like, as an organization. I'm certain that in the NFL, every organization not run the same. And that's exactly how it is in NBA. I've been very fortunate that I've played for some of the best coaches, I believe, of this generation. And it was perfect because each stint that I had to coach was perfect for, like, my development, right? Brad Stevens isn't like a rah-rah type of guy. But when I first got to the league as a 19-year-old, he showed me the game, the NBA game. He taught me, like, it was perfect for, like, me to learn, you know, the ins and outs, the X's and O's, you know, how to strategize, how to watch film,

• 13:56Speaker 03

  you know, just to, like, teach me the game. And I think when we got Ime, it was a perfect of like, all right, you know, now it's my fifth year in the league. How do we make this jump? We had never been to the finals. We had gotten to the conference finals three times, but we haven't gotten over that hump. Ime was the best at, like, obviously, he knew the game, but he was the best at, like, getting the best out of guys and pushing your buttons and, like, we not backing down from anybody. And Joe Missoula is like the perfect combination of both. And, you know, as you guys seen, we got over that hump and, you know, got it done.

• 14:29Fred Taylor?

  I'm a mama's boy too, so I want to talk about your first coach for a little bit, right? She juggled classes, work, parenting, you know, just being a mom, doing everything she could to make sure you were good. How has seeing those sacrifices and watching her over the years allowed you, you know, to develop and be the person you are on and off the court when you face the challenges as your ankle and everything else that you have gone through?

• 14:54Speaker 03

  I was very aware of, like, my surroundings and what we was going through, you know? I've been there when we didn't have no heat, when the lights was cut off, when I go to wash my hands and... The water not coming out the faucet and seeing my mom like break down and, and you know, juggling trying to raise me, go to school, put food on the table. Like, we did it all. And, you know, I, as, as, as, when I was younger, I always told myself like, you know, it's my dream to be in the NBA, but I, I can't wait to take care of my mom. Like, I understand all that she going through. And then you fast forward, I, like, I had even a deeper appreciation when I had, you know,

• 15:37Speaker 03

  my first son and, you know, I was 19, but, and I had all the resources and I had, obviously, a great job. And it's still, like, it takes a village to raise a child.

• 15:49Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 15:49Speaker 03

  And like, my mom was still helping me out with, with my son Deuce.

• 15:53Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 15:53Speaker 03

  And I just remember, I was just like, "Ma, I don't know how the fuck you did it." Like, "How did you make it happen?" And, like, you know, I'm eternally grateful for the unconditional love and tough love that, you know, she gave me and support because, you know, it was, I can't imagine doing it the way that she had to do it.

• 16:13Ryan Clark?

  We talked to KD and his mother gets a lot of sort of the fanfare for who he is. Obviously, the, the real MVP during his MVP speech. And we were having a conversation with him and it was the first time I ever heard him mention his father. And he was like, "Man, my father was a real G." You know, "Your dad is coached basketball forever. He's coached overseas. I think you were 1-9 against him though in high school or something."

• 16:40Speaker 03

  9-1.

• 16:41Ryan Clark?

  9-1, I'm sorry, 9-1. He was 1-9 against you, I apologize. 9-1 against you in, in, in high school. But that was more of a tough love relationship. How did your relationship with your father affect the way you parent or parented with Deuce when you became a father so young?

• 17:01Speaker 03

  So I can say that like, you know, my parents was, they was 19 when they had me. They was never together or married. Like, they was high school sweethearts, but, you know, they was kids when they had me. So, you know, as I got older and I understood that like, Maybe my dad's shortcomings was just a part of him growing up and like, you know, figuring his life out and he didn't have the best father figure and the example or role model in his life, you know, and me and my dad, we, we close and I, he was always there, like, you know, I've known him my whole life. There's things that, you know, we, moments where we didn't have the best relationship

• 17:41Speaker 03

  or things was rocky or, or whatnot and I got to a point where it's like, I want to, our relationship to be better. I don't want to be, you know, another black man that is not close with his dad or, or feels some kind of way, like, I don't, I want us to, to figure it out and, and be better and, you know, we had a smooth, solid spot, like, I, I talked to him and, and, you know, we close and whatnot. I do remember, like, when I was a kid, I never thought about, like, getting married. I always was like, man, I want to have a son because I want to have a different relationship with my son than I have with my dad. But on the flip side, I wouldn't change nothing about how I was brought up because it made

• 18:25Speaker 03

  me who I am. And maybe if my dad wasn't as tough and we had a, maybe a more traditional relationship, I wouldn't have worked so hard to get to where I am today. So there's this balance of like, you know, could we have been like closer? Maybe, but it made me the man I am today and I'm proud of, of, of that. And it's still time where, you know, maybe we didn't have that relationship as close when I was younger, but, you know, we actively work on it now and, you know, I think that's important.

• 18:58Channing Crowder?

  But you knew the record against him because you wanted, you wanted to bust his ass.

• 19:03Speaker 03

  For sure.

• 19:04Channing Crowder?

  You said, no, no, no, nine to one, not one to nine, you corrected it. With that, bro, looking across and seeing your dad, biological DNA dad, coaching against you though, what was that like? Because shit, you should be on this side.

• 19:19Speaker 03

  It was fucked up for sure. Like, my dad, he introduced me to the game. He put the ball in my hand, like, he was my trainer, my coach when I was younger. On some like Jesus Sotomayor's work, like, you know, he was that type of coach and he pushed my buttons all the time. But when I was younger, he coached at a high school in the city, like a lean on me type of high school. My mom was, my mom was not letting me go to that high school. So, you know, I go to Chaminade College Prep when I was in ninth grade. So he ends up getting a job at our rival school, because it's five all-boy Catholic schools in St. Louis, we all in the conference. So he gets the job at the end of my freshman year.

• 20:03Speaker 03

  And it's in Missouri, we got these weird rules. Like if you transferred and you already played varsity within like a 25 mile radius, like you might have to sit out a year. So I had that decision weighing on me, like I don't want to miss a year of, you know, high school basketball. I've already developed relationships here at my school. So it led me to, I end up staying. So that's how we played each other twice a year in the conference. And then my senior year, I had to play them to like get to the state championship. And the first game we ever played against each other, I was, I think I was 15. And it was weird because it's like, I'm looking across and like, that's the man that introduced me to this game, that helped me get to where I am and like,

• 20:48Speaker 03

  who I wanted to be like, like, you know, my dad is 6'6" and everybody in St. Louis know who he is. He got all these tattoos, like I wanted to be like him. So it was weird. I remember running on the court and it's like, damn, he trying to stop me tonight. And I remember I didn't play well, like I couldn't mentally, I couldn't get over the hurdle of like, damn, he like, he trying to stop his son tonight. But I remember how I felt after I lost and I was like, I'm never doing that shit again.

• 21:14Channing Crowder?

  Oh, so you lost the first one?

• 21:15Speaker 03

  I lost the very first one.

• 21:16Channing Crowder?

  And then you ran off nine straight?

• 21:18Speaker 03

  Nine straight.

• 21:21Channing Crowder?

  Come on, Pop.

• 21:23Channing Crowder?

  I'm ready now, bruh.

• 21:24Speaker 03

  Nine straight.

• 21:25Fred Taylor?

  Can you, can you find a way to get 13 more in? Well, you 27, that'll be 40. Deuce will be what, 21? Can you find a way to get 13 more in so you can, you know, play with Deuce across from him?

• 21:41Speaker 03

  I mean, as athletes, you know, it depend on the day you ask me. I mean, that would be incredible, right? This is my ninth year in the league. Hopefully, you know, it don't take him that long. Maybe he can be one and done and it bring that timeline a little down. But I think that would be incredible. Like seeing what Bron and his son is doing, like just as like a father and like being able, you know, he raised him and you get to a point where y'all.

• 22:08Ryan Clark?

  Play together.

• 22:09Speaker 03

  That's like the coolest shit ever. Like that's, you gotta tip your hat up there.

• 22:15Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends. Like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an ultra because it's not just a superior light beer. It's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 22:44Fred Taylor?

  Talk about the pressure of one and done though. Like, when do you know like you're ready as opposed to just being naturally talented?

• 22:51Ryan Clark?

  When they, when they go to school, Fred?

• 22:54Fred Taylor?

  No, I'm asking, I'm asking him. Like, I wouldn't never in that position.

• 22:59Channing Crowder?

  We weren't good.

• 23:02Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, I wanna know like, when you say, okay, this is what I'm about to do. Cause a lot of times y'all come in high school, you're like, okay, I'm one and I'm out of there. Like, when do you know like that you're really ready? Cause you can say that, but you might not be ready. You can realize that you're talented, but actually being ready, that's a whole different situation.

• 23:20Speaker 03

  To be honest, I like, I never saw it going no other way. Like, I just, not from an arrogant standpoint, I just like had ignorant belief. Like, you know, I was, I was a kid and I was like, you know, go to high school. I'm gonna go to one of these schools for one year and then I'm go chase my dreams. So. I felt that way when I was 10 years old. When I was in high school, you know, I was one, two, or the third best player in the country, like my entire high school career. So I remember like when I decided I was going to Duke, like I knew I was only going to be here for one year. Not that I was trying to like rush past it, like I enjoyed my time. I had a hell of a freshman year.

• 24:03Speaker 03

  I built all these relationships, but I knew I was, I was out. I knew I was going to chase my dream.

• 24:11Channing Crowder?

  Would NIL have changed that thought? Because we look back, we older than you, but I look back like, I'm like, man, if they start giving me two, three million dollars, I might have stayed in college longer. I was only there two years. Y'all know y'all had it to get the money. I wanted to chase the money as fast as possible too. But what, would the NIL have changed if you, if you were making three, four million dollars a year?

• 24:32Speaker 03

  No, because in my mind, it's like the sooner I get to the league, the sooner that max contract going to come and then the super max contract going to come. So no, I was still going to be one of them.

• 24:44Ryan Clark?

  JT, I look at Boston and you, you kind of mentioned the progression of coaches. That progression also went with the two stars on the team. And it was you and Jalen. And there were always these questions of like, are they too similar? Do they do the same things? Is it enough for them to win a championship? And it seemed like people, when I'm, you know, watching the media, whether it's, you know, NBA tonight or whatever it is, that those questions almost pitted you two against each other as if like one's going to have to leave in order for one to win a championship there. What were some of the conversations that kept you and Jalen close during those times to get y'all over the hump?

• 25:30Speaker 03

  As you get older, like you just start. Retiring and realizing things that for one it's like, man, the grass not always green on the other side. Yeah. You know, understand that, you know, we are both here a year and a half older than me and, you know, two guys that love this game, work their butt off and want to win at all costs. Now, we had some growing pains that we had to figure out, you know, what is that going to look like? But the unfair part of it was like, we went to the conference finals my rookie year. So I think as spectators and as fans, subconsciously, you like, oh, well shit. Now they got there, they need to go.

• 26:15Speaker 03

  But he was 21 and I was, I had just turned 20 and we went to a game seven. You know, then my third year, we went to the conference finals. So now people looking at us like, oh, y'all can't get it done. But it's like, I'm 22 years old and sometimes we look at, you know, star players or younger guys that maybe on bad teams for a while, they get more grace because they haven't been there. So you haven't like expected anything from them. So then now, by the time you do expect it, they 27. Yeah. Whereas, you know, people was expecting that from us at 20, 21, 22 years old. Like, first time we got to the finals, I was 20, I had just turned 24. Yeah.

• 26:58Speaker 03

  And that was our third time being in the conference finals and we just got to the finals. When like a lot of our peers maybe had been to the playoffs one time. Yeah. So we were held to a much higher standard than everyone else, you know, which is part of being in Boston, playing for the Celtics. You know, you're expected to win championships. But, you know, we're just thankful that we had an organization that believed that we, you know, could be the cornerstones of, you know, bringing the championship with the right pieces around us. And I think it just as we got older, like, we both got paid, we both had individual success and All-Stars. Like now, let's figure out how do we put it all together and, you know,

• 27:40Speaker 03

  we've been in two finals and won one and hopefully we got much more to accomplish together.

• 27:45Channing Crowder?

  You're a good, as a good friend and a good teammate.

• 27:48Speaker 03

  I know where this is going.

• 27:50Channing Crowder?

  Have you discussed hair products with JB? Because they lighting his ass up about that Beijing, brother. I gotta just, bro, we know it's paint, you ain't tricking nobody.

• 28:02Speaker 03

  I mean, I think JB allowed himself to like, he leaned into it and kind of made a joke about, you know, himself and, you know, we clowned him about it for a little bit and laughed, but, you know, I ain't really giving too much advice.

• 28:19Ryan Clark?

  Man, you got a laser tape. But that's why he, it's him and Jalen Rose, man, all two, they are top two all NBA hairlines forever.

• 28:28Channing Crowder?

  That's laser right there. That is, that's NASA. You got a NASA tape.

• 28:32Ryan Clark?

  That ain't even a pressure.

• 28:33Speaker 03

  I'm saying I need a cut right now.

• 28:36Ryan Clark?

  Hey, I told my barber to drive here. I was like, she, Jason Tate will come today. You think, you think I ain't gonna get a raise a line for this joint start? JB say he put greatness on them boys when his Beijing be on their jersey.

• 28:48Speaker 03

  What's that aura? What is it called? Aura farming?

• 28:52Ryan Clark?

  Aura farming.

• 28:53Speaker 03

  Aura?

• 28:53Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 28:54Channing Crowder?

  That's an aura farm?

• 28:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, like when you touch him, you leave him something.

• 28:59Channing Crowder?

  You gotta be, yeah, but it's cool to hear as a, as a homeboy to be like, brother, they killing your ass. Tighten up. Cause Joey Porter used to Beijing back in the day and every time he took his helmet off, it'd be black all in his helmet. Like, brother, they can see this shit on TV, bro. Like, I'm, as your homeboy, I'm letting you know that, yeah, yeah, man, it's, it's right here. So, but it's, it's, it's a joke in the locker room, man, no sensitive shit.

• 29:24Speaker 03

  No, it's a joke for sure.

• 29:25Fred Taylor?

  You mentioned Boston and, you know, what they're like here and traditionally, obviously, one of the best organizations in the NBA. But just this, this entire region, like I was here for a cup of coffee in 2009 and 10 with the Pats. And I realized how this is the, the, the best region for sports. The, the Red Sox, Bruins, obviously, the Pats and the Celtics, and the fan base is ridiculous here. But, you know, for you, like, those pressures, the respect that you have for the town, that they have for you. Just talk about what it means to you to actually be here in Boston, playing in this type of environment altogether.

• 30:04Speaker 03

  You know, coming from Duke, being on like arguably the biggest stage in college basketball.

• 30:09Ryan Clark?

  Heck, yeah.

• 30:10Speaker 03

  Prepared me to, you know, come to the Celtics. And I can honestly say that like, you know, you have friends around the league that you was in high school with and you got drafted with. And early on, when they would come into town and they would be like, yo, is it always like this? And I'm like, yeah, this is just a Tuesday. Like, every game is always sold out. And just, you know, you talk about, we just had totally, we both can be in the NBA, but we have a totally different experience on just all fronts. And I think it's a great place to be in because it, like, they expect more. So it raises, you know, your level of discipline and focus and play. Because you're, like, you come into the arena, it's only championship banners.

• 30:54Speaker 03

  Like, we don't hang for making the conference finals or divisionals. Like, it's a championship or nothing. And it's not like that in any other arena. So it's special to be a part of because, for one, you respect all the other teams as well. Like, you know, the Pats always win, the Red Sox got World Series, Bruins got Stanley Cup. So it's like, you know, you don't want to be-

• 31:17Ryan Clark?

  The sorry team.

• 31:18Speaker 03

  The sorry team, right? Like, you want to hold your end of the bargain up because Boston is title town. Like, in January and February, everybody rooting for the Pats, you know? And May and June come, it's Celtics and Bruins time. And October is like, so being for nine years, like, the fans and the people, like, they really, they know the game and they really care. Like, it's, it's real, it's not for fake.

• 31:43Fred Taylor?

  What football team you root for? Because the league stole your team and shipped them out to LA.

• 31:50Ryan Clark?

  He's like, he really hurt.

• 31:53Fred Taylor?

  What team do you follow in football?

• 31:55Speaker 03

  I guess I don't necessarily, like, root for a particular team.

• 31:59Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 31:59Speaker 03

  I built a relationship with the Pats, like, with the coaches and players over there. So obviously, I want to see those guys do well. I just love watching football. Like, I love different players. Lamar Jackson might be probably my favorite, you know, guy to watch on Sundays. Josh Allen and Jonathan Taylor, like, the list, I just, I respect-

• 32:19Ryan Clark?

  You're a player guy.

• 32:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, like, I like watching good football players.

• 32:22Ryan Clark?

  So they can't really have this conversation, JT. This is only like a championship conversation.

• 32:27Fred Taylor?

  Here we go.

• 32:28Ryan Clark?

  Some people don't get opportunities to win them, JT. Don't turn your back on me, Red. Don't turn your back on me, Red. JT, so people never get there. You know what I mean? Some people never get there.

• 32:40Speaker 03

  We got opportunities.

• 32:40Ryan Clark?

  Some people never hold that trophy and get to be crowned the best team in the world. Some of us do, you know? Some of us don't play with in organizations with a history or an expectancy of winning. You know, what's his name? Morris got a rap every year.

• 32:54Channing Crowder?

  I hit you in front of Jason.

• 32:55Ryan Clark?

  Morris got a rap every year about 1972. Nah, but not just the entire city in the way that they look at sports. But when you play for a team in an organization where championships are what's expected, you know, you end up where Mike Tomlin is now. He stepped away after never having a losing season, right? Because getting to the playoffs or winning every year, never having a losing season, isn't enough because you aren't bringing us championships. We aren't competing in that way. You mentioned what your steps were, right? Getting to the conference finals and going in the third year and losing in the finals, all of those things. How much was the pressure on you guys, especially being so close and not being able

• 33:40Ryan Clark?

  to get over the hump? Just within the locale of the city?

• 33:44Speaker 03

  We definitely felt it. You know, a lot of times like former players come back and whether it be Rondo, KG Paul, or Cedric Maxwell, who's like, who works for the team, or you know, they talk about the 86 Celtics, like the thing they all have in common is they won. They won one or multiple championships. So as you know, you striving to be a great player, it's like, you know, if I, the career I have right now, if I had it with the Grizzlies, like I would have a statue outside the arena.

• 34:17Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 34:18Speaker 03

  But now I'm chasing people like Larry Bird where the standard is so much higher. And it's like, you don't want to be the great player of the Celtics that, oh, you the one guy that didn't win. Like Bill Russell, John Havlicek, Kevin McHale, like they all won a championship. So, you know, you don't want to be remembered as that guy or that team that, you know, never got it done. And it's a...

• 34:46Speaker 03

  Not to like exclude these guys, but it's like a great room to be in. Like you, your chest stick out a little bit more because it's like I can stand in this room because I know what it takes and I got a ring and a trophy at the house.

• 34:57Ryan Clark?

  The thing is like being able to have the conversations. You know, I, I'd look at my TV career and I know a lot of why my opinion matters or why they gave me the opportunity is because when we get to this part of the year, I can speak from personal experience.

• 35:15Speaker 03

  Right.

• 35:15Ryan Clark?

  In having been there and having won, even in, you know, both of our situations, getting there and losing, right? Like there's lessons to be taught in that. And I think like those experiences, they build you up as an individual player, but as a team too. And you know, like they always come back to different things with me in Pittsburgh or come to training camp with me and they like, man, it's always so much love. You guys are all so tight, but part of that is winning a championship.

• 35:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, it is.

• 35:42Ryan Clark?

  When you accomplish a certain thing with a group of, of men, like those memories, like they can't be erased.

• 35:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:49Ryan Clark?

  You know, and I think that like that's what I was grateful for in playing in Pittsburgh.

• 35:54Speaker 03

  They call us Charles Barkley.

• 35:57Channing Crowder?

  If he, if he was still injured with the boot on, I'd come over there, but I think he, I saw him work out the other day and I'm like, nah, let me.

• 36:04Ryan Clark?

  He was so nice too though. He said, not to exclude these guys.

• 36:07Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, very pleasant, very, very pleasant.

• 36:10Ryan Clark?

  It was in no way arrogant.

• 36:11Channing Crowder?

  Pleasant disrespect, I appreciate it. Like you're saying, to be a champion and to watch those playoff runs, I'm, I live in Miami, I'm a Heat fan. I don't watch you play down there. At what point do you be like, Cole, give me the ball? Cause it seems at some point in games where you had Brad, you had Eme, you had Joe now, and it's their great schematic guys and they know and they can set up everything. But at some point, it has to be as a star like, Cole, give me the damn rock. Watch this. We down by two, Cole. Just give it here. Is that, is that a conversation with great players?

• 36:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think it's built around respect, right? You know, you gotta earn the, the trust of your staff and your team. And that's like through the course of a season, through the, the way they see you prepare. On off days and how you, you know, prepare as a, as a player and as a teammate and how you work well with others is, you know, obviously it's different than football. Like, you can really take over a game. Like, I can go get the rebound, push the ball to the court, tell everybody where to go, go get a bucket and then get back on defense. Where, you know, obviously it's a team sport, you need everybody around you. But football's a little, y'all can speak obviously better, like, y'all got schemes and plays and like, you are, you know, control of, a part of the field, you know, whereas basketball, we just kind of moving all over.

• 37:31Ryan Clark?

  That's why they have max player contracts.

• 37:33Speaker 03

  Yeah. So it's just, you know, the freedom of like, being one of those guys that like, oh, we can have you guard the point guard, we can have you guard the center, we, you are our best rebounder, so when you get the ball, you have the ability, you don't have to give it to the point guard, you can initiate the offense, like, you know, so just being, you know, one of those guys that can kind of do everything.

• 37:57Channing Crowder?

  But, but no, but do you ever look at Joe, is it a look? Is it a conversation where it's just like, Cole, minute left, come with it?

• 38:05Ryan Clark?

  Some things understood.

• 38:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, some things understood.

• 38:09Ryan Clark?

  Honestly, I would never want to look at Joe and say nothing, though. Like, Joe don't like, he got a lot of fun in him.

• 38:15Speaker 03

  No, Joe, he is intense. But Joe is also like, it could be the middle of a finals game and it's like, he, he can sense that like, oh, like, how bad we want this and it could be a tight game and he'll call me over during the free throw and he'll just be like, man, I love you.

• 38:33Ryan Clark?

  That's important.

• 38:35Speaker 03

  That's green light. Yeah. I get it. He'll literally like, he'll like embrace it, like, I love you. And then he'll just walk away. And it's just like, as a player, like, when your coach is in the midst of everything that's going on in the magnitude of this game, we just kind of like, simplify it, just like, yo, go have fun.

• 38:52Ryan Clark?

  When someone leaves and it's under as much scrutiny as Ime Udoka left.

• 39:01Ryan Clark?

  He had proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that he's an excellent basketball coach.

• 39:07Speaker 03

  Right.

• 39:08Ryan Clark?

  And there were so many rumors, whether proven true or untrue or whatever it is, he's obviously also in a very public relationship. And so, an organization that always seemed extremely buttoned up and professional and it's about basketball was suddenly in the gossip pages with all of these good basketball players on the cusp of superstardom and winning a championship. How much did Joe's personality, Joe's foundation, help you guys transition in that sense of all the scrutiny you were under because of Udoka and the way that he left and because of who Joe was, it helped y'all settle in? How much was that important for them?

• 39:53Speaker 03

  Honestly, I think it took a little while because when that happened, it was literally two days before training camp that, you know, and that's, that's like a lot to handle as a, as a team, as an organization. And Joe had been there for, I want to say two or three years and, you know, he's assistant coach. And, you know, Joe has even explained and expressed that, that first year, you know, he didn't have time to prepare going into a season like as the head coach, it just kind of happened. And we had a really good team. We was the one seed, we lost in the conference finals. But I could see the next year, the change and like, I feel like the first year, he, he kind of went about it how he thought he was supposed to.

• 40:37Speaker 03

  The second year, when we won, he did it like how he want, like how he, he was being authentic in himself. And I was just happy to see that for him because I could only imagine like, two days before training camp, you now the head coach of a team that just went to the finals and expected to get back and you had no time to prepare and, you know, you've never been a head coach before. So I think seeing his progression, you know, as a head coach and just getting comfortable with himself and, and surrounding himself with the staff that he wanted that second year, I, it just, I felt good for him to like see, you know, him kind of do it his own way.

• 41:17Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends. Like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an ultra. Because it's not just a superior light beer. It's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 41:45Ryan Clark?

  We talked to a method man recently. Who's been married for an extremely long time. And he said, he calls, he calls his wife his loved one. And he said, the reason I believe it's lasted the way it has is because of the privacy in which I live it. And the privacy in which I take care of, of home. For you, building a persona where it is, not even persona, only giving the world the parts of you, you want them to see. How much of that is purposeful for you in order to keep yourself only focused on the main thing of playing ball and then being able to do what you need to do for your family

• 42:30Ryan Clark?

  on the backside of it?

• 42:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think it's important, you know, now with social media, everything is, you know, our jobs, our lives are so publicized, like, you know, kind of like with my injury, my injury is such a public thing, just, you know, based on the job that I have. And I really think about that, especially like with my kids. You know, everybody is aware of the relationship I have with Deuce and I didn't think it would get to like a point that it is now. Like I didn't, I was just, you know, a young father, living my dream and trying, you know, be the best basketball player I could be and the best father that I could be. So, you know, I just like, I want to bring him to the game like I see other people.

• 43:15Speaker 03

  I want him to experience and go through this journey with me. I didn't know it would, you know, transform into like. You know, how publicized, you know, our relationship and, you know, people joke about it all the time, like, you know, Deuce is one of the most famous people in Boston, right? And for me, it's one of those things like, you know, a lot of times, people will ask Deuce for pictures, like, maybe when he was with his mom or with his friends or at school. And, you know, I find that balance of like,

• 43:50Speaker 03

  experience, showing him things and experiencing it with him and like wanting him also to be like a normal kid. And this, I think, just with the life that I live, it's been a tug and pull, just trying to navigate that.

• 44:04Ryan Clark?

  How often do you think about giving him experiences that made you the man that you are, that you can be proud of, that were just natural, based on the way that you grew up?

• 44:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:17Ryan Clark?

  When he's gonna grow up nothing like you. Channing and I and Fred, we always have this conversation. There's so much we learned because of positions we were put in because we didn't have. Whereas Deuce is gonna have everything. Your kids forever are gonna be in a different position. How much thought do you give what you're able to teach them that they might not actually have to live through to help them be successful?

• 44:41Speaker 03

  That's a real thing. It's like, you know, part of, a big reason why I am who I am is how I grew up and trying to, every day, like, I wanna get out of this situation. I wanna provide better for, you know, my mom and my family. You know, and Deuce, he don't, he don't live like that at all. Like, he sit courtside, he get on private planes and we go on vacation. Like, he just live a totally different life. I think the most important thing right now is just like, one, showing him like how all of this works. Like, daddy goes to work, I sacrifice, I gotta go shoot commercials, I gotta train, I gotta go to practice even when I don't want to.

• 45:25Speaker 03

  Like, we didn't just like, money just don't grow on trees. Like, we, you know, it's come from somewhere. You know, regardless of what we have, like, always be thankful. Like, it can, it can go at any second. Like, and it doesn't make us better than anybody else. And I have him involved with a lot of like my foundation work back home, like when we have. You know, toy and coat drives and back to school fest and Thanksgiving drives like, you know, just being more than anything like a good respectable kid and a good person like a lot of times. You know, it's times where I have people come up and if he's at school with his mom, they're like, you know, I ran into Deuce and, you know, he's such a good kid. He was so, you know, respectful and had good manners.

• 46:09Speaker 03

  And it's like, as a father, that made me feel really good. Because you can, you know, you probably know people that, kids that grow up similar that, you know.

• 46:19Ryan Clark?

  Some little, as brats.

• 46:20Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, worth a damn.

• 46:21Speaker 03

  For sure.

• 46:22Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, I wouldn't call them names.

• 46:26Channing Crowder?

  People pop in my mind when you say it. But, but, but the thought, we've talked about this too, doesn't that come with being a super max player? You're good enough that the world knows you, so you get paid to be a top 20 player in the world. And you and your family now have to deal with top 20 player money. Like it's the Spider-Man thing, like,

• 46:47Channing Crowder?

  great, great ability and great responsibility kind of thing. Doesn't that come with being that guy? Deuce has to deal with his daddy being Jason Tatum.

• 46:56Speaker 03

  It's first world problems. Like, I don't want.

• 46:58Ryan Clark?

  100%.

• 46:59Speaker 03

  Anybody like.

• 47:00Ryan Clark?

  This is a first world conversation.

• 47:01Channing Crowder?

  It is what it is, bro. It's a first world conversation.

• 47:03Speaker 03

  Complaining or anything like that. It's just our reality and, you know, I can only speak from, you know, the things that, you know, myself and, and we go through. And he's been in it his entire life, so he's, he's at that age, now he just turned eight, where we,

• 47:23Speaker 03

  his awareness has grown and we can have, you know, more adult-ish conversations where he has a better understanding. And, you know, he's very curious and, and asks a lot of questions and when things, you know, transpire or happen, you know, I can ask him like, you know, how did that make you feel or, you know, this is why that happened or, you know, X, Y, Z. And it's just about communicating with him.

• 47:48Ryan Clark?

  I've never been one of the best at anything in the world, right? And so, you know, in football. It was always easy for me to find my spot. And like every good thing that happened was in Louisiana, we called it "landia," which means "extra." It was extra for me. You know, like I made the Pro Bowl. I was like, "Damn."

• 48:07Speaker 03

  Right.

• 48:08Ryan Clark?

  People voted for me. You know, I mean, it was, it was something on top of that. Like I was voted captain. I was like, "Damn." Like my teammates respected me in this way. You know, I was undrafted. I was cut. So it was just all this work. And if something didn't go my way, it never affected me because I was like, "So much hasn't gone my way."

• 48:27Speaker 03

  Right.

• 48:28Ryan Clark?

  Right? I was like, "I, I get this." Like, "I understand what this is." Your life hasn't been like that. Like you said, throughout high school, always rated as a top-three player, right? You were an early lottery pick. And then, you know, I watched a little bit of this through the starting, you know, through the Olympics show and then starting five with Halliburton. The experience of being on an Olympic team, and truly this year's Olympic team, that the three biggest stars of y'all, of this generation, were on that team. And Steve Kerr says to you guys before you even go, "Hey, man, playing time is going to be difficult, right? We're going to have to figure it out." On those days, you don't play as much as you want to, or throughout the whole experience,

• 49:11Ryan Clark?

  what did you take from that as a lesson moving forward?

• 49:16Speaker 03

  To be honest, that was tough because, you know, this is my second time in the Olympics. And, you know, we went in 2020, 2021, we was in Tokyo. And my experience was totally different. Like, you know, I was the second-leading scorer behind KD, and we beat France. We ended up winning a gold medal. So, you know, this year, in 2024, I was first-team All-NBA. Came off a championship. I was on the cover of 2K. Like, I was, I was as high as, like, I was on top of the world. I just signed the largest contract in NBA history. So I, like, I was riding this cloud. And then I get to the Olympics, and it didn't go, you know, how I wanted it.

• 50:00Speaker 03

  We still won, and, you know, I've built some relationships and I've gained some great memories from it. But the toughest part was like, everybody was like, "Yo, like, I can't wait till you play the Warriors. I know you're going to, like, try to kill them, like, when you see Steve Kerr again." And it was like, yeah, but how about, like, how am I feeling right now?

• 50:23Speaker 03

  I, fuck, was going to happen in the future, like, so I felt like people didn't take into account, like, how I was, like, trying to

• 50:33Ryan Clark?

  Process.

• 50:33Speaker 03

  Process that in real time, because it was, I couldn't, I couldn't process, I couldn't understand. I'm like, you know, being first team All-NBA, I mean, it's me and four of the guys in the world. And at that time, the four of the guys was all European, so it was like, I was the only American. And then you get to the Olympics and it's like, I didn't play in two of the games. It was hard to process. And that was the toughest part, like, everybody worried about, can't wait till you play Steve Kerr in the Warriors, like, no, like, you gotta worry about how I'm feeling right now, like, I'm trying, like, that was the toughest part.

• 51:08Channing Crowder?

  And to that point, because everybody knew that they're not DNP's of an All-NBA player, you can't go sit down with Steve Kerr and ask him, "Bruh, put me on the court, Cole."

• 51:20Speaker 03

  I always bring it back, like, my mom did such a good job of raising me that, like,

• 51:26Speaker 03

  I always, like, keep it cool. I always, I'm not gonna rock the boat. I'm always gonna be a professional. I'm gonna show up, I'm gonna do, you know, because we're here to win a gold medal, right? If we come up short and all this shit was for her, we wasted our summer. So, you know, I still was able to, like, keep that, even though I could disagree, or me and the coach not seeing eye to eye, or, you know, I'm keeping my distance. I still had to wherewithal of, like, you know, let's just, you know, when I get in, I'm gonna do what I can with the time that, you know, they give me and, you know, we're still gonna find a way to win.

• 52:04Ryan Clark?

  I have this conversation with my wife oftentimes, because we're in a place where society is so ugly.

• 52:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:11Ryan Clark?

  And people are so selfish. And she asked me, she's like, did we do our children a disservice by telling them to be polite? And telling them to be mannerable, telling them to be compassionate and could and consider others, to be unselfish, because you live in this world where people are like that. You know, the term, the squeaky wheel gets the oil, like it's, it's a very real thing. It is. Right, where people go and complain and say, I want this and I want that, and they are rewarded for that. And then the person who's showing up every day, doing the right things, but saying to themselves, I don't want to rock the boat, they never get out of the situation because people aren't even paying attention to them. They like, oh, they are good with what's happening.

• 52:56Ryan Clark?

  And so I can see you being all of those things and part of all of those accomplishments, first team All-NBA, is also the way you carry yourself as well, by being a leader. And so the difficulty being like, yeah, man, like, I really want to play, but like the three dudes getting all the minutes could be Hall of Famers right now.

• 53:16Channing Crowder?

  I'm not saying be disrespectful, RC. Just lean up to me like, Cole.

• 53:20Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, but it's tough though when, it's tough when you.

• 53:23Channing Crowder?

  Cole's a pretty cool.

• 53:24Ryan Clark?

  It's hard though when you're raised, like I, I get what he's saying. Like, he was raised to not be that.

• 53:30Fred Taylor?

  And some shit just understood.

• 53:32Ryan Clark?

  You know what I mean?

• 53:32Fred Taylor?

  Ain't no way this man, you, you know what I mean, but I don't want to curse.

• 53:36Channing Crowder?

  He should have jumped up 18 times and tore your, tore your pants off.

• 53:40Fred Taylor?

  He, there was no need to do it.

• 53:41Channing Crowder?

  It's not me.

• 53:42Fred Taylor?

  You did it right, but it wasn't no need for that. Come on, man, he, he supposed to be playing way more than.

• 53:48Ryan Clark?

  No, 100%, but the, I, I agree, like, we've all watched him hoop. We understand that, but it's also like the, the, the difficulty for him is, do you become that guy on this stage? This is not Boston Celtics, where this is the team that's paying him the max contract, and he gets to go say, this is, I volunteered my time along with these folks to go do this for one reason and one reason only.

• 54:16Fred Taylor?

  So even more, on top of all of that, is why he should have been freaking playing.

• 54:21Ryan Clark?

  Cause he volunteered.

• 54:22Fred Taylor?

  On top of now, but now he's nice, but he should have still been playing.

• 54:26Channing Crowder?

  Six men on the court, I just walked out there.

• 54:31Channing Crowder?

  I'd have just walked out there, Coach.

• 54:33Fred Taylor?

  So you had no control of that or this, but I do want to ask your opinion. Did they, did the voters get it right for naming the starters for the All-Star game? One, and then the other part is, do you think somebody would be so kind to honor Bron and allow him to start in their place, even though he wasn't named the official starter?

• 54:54Speaker 03

  I don't know exactly who, I do know that Bron didn't get voted in.

• 54:58Ryan Clark?

  Cade, Steph, yeah, it's all young guys, though, outside of Steph.

• 55:05Speaker 03

  It depends, like, we don't know if it's Bron last year.

• 55:09Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 55:10Speaker 03

  Seeing, like, not seeing Bron in the All-Star game would be, don't seem right, like, it's, you know. If it's his last year, regardless, obviously, he should still be a part of All-Star Weekend. And I do think, like, if somebody, if he, you know, gets put in by the coaches and, you know, if it is his last year, like they did with MJ on his last year, I think Vince Carter gave up his, his starting spot.

• 55:36Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 55:36Speaker 03

  I think that's just like the right thing to do.

• 55:38Fred Taylor?

  The, the rosters are Yanis, Jalen, then Jalen Brunson, Cade, and Tyrese Maxey. And on the West is Steph, Luca, SGA, Joker, and Wemba Yama.

• 56:22Ryan Clark?

  A question I would like to know is, when you're on the sideline and you're watching this team still perform at a high level, and, bruh, I'll be honest, I didn't know Jalen Hallett like this. You know, I actually got to see him play in the high school championship in Georgia and knew a little bit about him. Then, my two little cousins played in the female game before, but, I mean, he's put up a 50 piece. He's just had just some great games and really stepped up in scoring and leadership. How do, how much do you contemplate, okay, how do I fit back in to what's been created while I was injured to allow him

• 57:05Ryan Clark?

  to keep being that while I come back and I work myself back into being who I am?

• 57:11Speaker 03

  That's something I contemplate every day, more so about, you know, the team, you know, if or when I do come back this season, like, they would have played 50 some odd games without me, right? So they have an identity this year or things that they've, you know, felt that has clicked for them and it's been successful, right? You know, third, second team in the East up to this point. So there is a thought in my head is like, you know, how does that, you know, how does that work or how does that look? You know, with me, you know, integrating myself off an injury and 50, 60 games into

• 57:54Speaker 03

  a season, you know, obviously could be some, some challenges and, you know, it is a thought like, damn, do I come back or should I wait? It's something that I honestly, recently in the last like two weeks or so, kind of, just kind of contemplate every single day.

• 58:13Channing Crowder?

  Bro, you brought up Bron. You say you talked to KD about the injury as well. Steph, I think you're a generation below them. And then now you got SGA and Anthony Edwards and all them. So that's how I look at it. I gave KD hell because I saw SGA put the motherfucking whoopee cushion on his ass.

• 58:34Ryan Clark?

  That is not a basketball move.

• 58:39Channing Crowder?

  Who were them young dudes that, you know, and you can say basketball, bro.

• 58:42Ryan Clark?

  He's not young, by the way.

• 58:43Channing Crowder?

  Huh? I put him a step, a step under you. Who's them young dudes now that you be?

• 58:50Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, I was saying, they're the same age.

• 58:51Speaker 03

  Me and SGA the same age.

• 58:52Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 58:53Speaker 03

  27.

• 58:54Channing Crowder?

  So that next generation, who are some of them puppies that you looking at like, mm, yeah, hey, Coach, I don't want to guard them all game. I can get them in the fourth.

• 59:02Speaker 03

  I mean, it ain't nobody.

• 59:04Ryan Clark?

  You think he was going to say that, Chan?

• 59:06Channing Crowder?

  Listen, I didn't want to.

• 59:07Ryan Clark?

  Hey, Coach, I don't want to cover Cooper Flag. Like, that's not how it works.

• 59:11Channing Crowder?

  Well, that's not Cooper Flag. I don't think he's scared of Cooper Flag. I just, who, but who's those young guys now coming up? Because we're, we're looking for Bron. We're looking for Steph. We're looking for KD's. We're looking for you. We're looking for that right now.

• 59:26Speaker 03

  When the Yama is like.

• 59:28Channing Crowder?

  It's crazy.

• 59:29Speaker 03

  Watching him on a nightly basis when I can and seeing him in person is ridiculous. Like, I don't even know how else to express it. Like, and he still hasn't, you know, his body hasn't matured and he's still kind of figuring, you know, himself out and, but it's like, just things that he's able to do is like, we've never seen that.

• 59:50Ryan Clark?

  I agree. He like a baby giraffe still, though.

• 59:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 59:54Ryan Clark?

  Like, he's still, like, you still trying to figure out, what do I do with all of this and all this talent? I know Fred, Fred asks our biggest question every show. I am Kobe Bryant's my favorite basketball player of all time, right? I know you had a relationship. I think it may be like a few weeks ago, a month ago, Lou Will ended up saying like about people who kind of like are starting to try to knock who Kobe Bryant was as a player. He was saying how much foolishness that is based on who he was when he played and the way people felt about him. How do you kind of see the way storytelling has seemed to shift on Kobe into saying he

• 1:00:38Ryan Clark?

  wasn't all the things we believed him to be when he was on one of the most prolific scoring runs we'd ever seen from a hoop?

• 1:00:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think it's like cowardly, to be honest, like because they didn't speak about him like this when he was here. And, you know, I think now it being this new age, like everything is so like analytics and shot profile and efficiency, which matters 100%. But and AI, like I'm a huge AI fan, one of my favorite players. The year AI won MVP, he shot 29 shots a game.

• 1:01:18Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:19Speaker 03

  Like he was shooting that shit every single time. But we all admire his competitiveness, how tough he was, how he got it done, how he was 6'1" and was the most fierce competitor in the world, like. But now that Kobe isn't here, we want to bring up the times where he wasn't as efficient or he shot long twos and now where we shoot, you know, we try to get away from those and we want to shoot more threes. And it's like, if you ask anybody that played against him, they all say he was the best player in the league. They was, he was the most terrifying person to guard.

• 1:01:59Speaker 03

  And he's one of the three most influential basketball players of all time. Like everybody loved, revered, respected, even from different sports admired.

• 1:02:11Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:12Speaker 03

  Who he was. Now that he's not here, you want to try to erase history. And I, I honestly kind of take it personally because I grew up in St. Louis, which I don't know, 3,000 miles away from LA. He is the reason why I like.

• 1:02:31Speaker 03

  Woke up at 5:30 in the morning while I chased my dream because I saw how hard he worked. I watched all his interviews. I watched his mannerisms, how he played on the court, how he handled adversity, how he handled winning. Like, he was my inspiration and my idol. So, somebody that was 3,000 miles away from me inspired me to like be who I am. When I see people, you know, discredit him or, you know, kind of talk out the side of their neck, I do kind of take it personal because it's like that dude meant like everything to me. And this energy wasn't the same when he was here.

• 1:03:12Ryan Clark?

  Agreed, bro.

• 1:03:13Fred Taylor?

  Crazy, it's been six years already. What's your biggest pivot in life? That's that one moment you can look back on and say, because of this, I am who I am today.

• 1:03:22Speaker 03

  Becoming a father. He was born December 6, 2017. I was 19 years old. I was a month and a half into my new career. I was in a new environment, a new city. You know, I started making some money.

• 1:03:40Speaker 03

  And I can see how, as a 19-year-old, you start making millions and, you know, you the breadwinner of your family and how you can make some bad decisions, how you can

• 1:03:54Speaker 03

  stray off the path. Like, it's not normal to be 19 and start making millions of dollars and have all this fame and resources and free time. Having Deuce at 19, and obviously his mom was here and my mom helped, gave me responsibility, right? And I always told myself, I'm never gonna let one, you know, fall off for the other one. Like, I'm going to be the best basketball player I can ever be, and I'm also gonna be the best father that I can ever be. And, you know, other things might have to wait or, you know, fall short,

• 1:04:34Speaker 03

  but these two, you know, are gonna be at the top of my list. And it just, it gave me a sense of responsibility. It gave me a sense of, you know, I just felt like I started thinking differently, like, oh, I got somebody that is gonna look up to every single thing that I do, like.

• 1:04:56Speaker 03

  You know, my mom always make this joke like, yo, don't smoke crack cuz he gonna do, he gonna wanna do everything that you do. And like, she would say that from, you know, the way I would hold my fork, I, you could see him out the corner of his eye, like, trying to hold it the same way. And it's just like, those little moments of like, man, like, I really need to make sure I'm, you know, being the best person and making the best decisions because, you know, this is my mini me, he gonna wanna be just like me. So, I won't say I was excited when I found out I was having to kill, like, I wasn't, I wasn't excited at all. I thought it was like going, you know, ruin my life. And it was the best thing that could have ever happened.

• 1:05:36Ryan Clark?

  As a, as a 19-year-old father, I think I can echo a lot of those things. Except I didn't have millions of dollars at the time, so it was a little, a little different. And you tell your mom, man, all those times she would run in your room and hold the remote and ask you questions, it worked. This was amazing, man, to sit with you. You know, you know, this is something I've been wanting to do for an extremely long time. I know how valuable your time is, so this means the world to me.

• 1:06:01Speaker 03

  Of course.

• 1:06:02Ryan Clark?

  I truly appreciate you, bro. And that was a pivot.

• 1:06:06Speaker 03

  Appreciate you.

• 1:06:07Ryan Clark?

  Man, thank you, doc.

• 1:06:09Ryan Clark?

  But now, like, I'm just, listen, I asked them, doc, I remember, so when Kobe passed, I was training DBs for the combine. So I was in the airport, the news come across, and so me and my son, like, loved Kobe, so I hit him, and he was like, hell no, pop. And so, I'm on the plane, bro, I was on Southwest, I'll never forget it, I said to exit row, I'm leaning on the wall and crying, like, I knew it. You know what I mean? And you could see the lady next to me, like, he tripping. But like, I, so like, when I, when I hear that too, how people try to erase or have revisionist history in some people on things that they've said before.

• 1:06:50Ryan Clark?

  Like, they're, they're changing midstream stuff that they said years ago, you know? So it's a,

• 1:06:57Fred Taylor?

  Man, all they gotta do is pop in the Redeem team and hear all of the pros, the greatest players talk about how Kobe approached the game and what he did.

• 1:07:05Ryan Clark?

  How he changed them.

• 1:07:06Fred Taylor?

  And how he turned that around. What everybody else say? We got guys validating it.

• 1:07:11Speaker 03

  I was in New Orleans when I found out.

• 1:07:12Ryan Clark?

  Really?

• 1:07:13Speaker 03

  We played the Pelicans that day, and I remember, I actually was, I was in Popeyes on fucking Canal Street, right by the

• 1:07:23Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, I know exactly where you were. That's the best Popeyes.

• 1:07:25Speaker 03

  The best. I remember sitting in there and it just came across the news. And I remember, it was weird because I felt like, you know, when you're younger, you feel like your idols is like invincible.

• 1:07:38Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:40Speaker 03

  And that just kinda hit me like,

• 1:07:43Speaker 03

  damn, I thought he was invincible. I thought nothing ever like bad could happen to him. I remember I was, I went to my room, I broke down crying.

• 1:07:50Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, it's so routine. We take a lot of that for granted a lot of times.

• 1:07:54Ryan Clark?

  Did y'all have, on that day since, you know, y'all was hooping, did y'all have like real conversations about it when he passed, like when y'all found out?

• 1:08:04Speaker 03

  I remember, we played the Pelicans that night. I remember I wasn't, I was dealing with a growing injury, so I missed like a week. And I remember, I remember I just like sat in the back. Like it was a real like sad, like somber day. The game ain't really matter and nobody was really speaking. Like you could just,

• 1:08:25Ryan Clark?

  You could tell.

• 1:08:25Speaker 03

  Everybody just like felt heavy.

• 1:08:27Fred Taylor?

  January 26th, 2020.

• 1:08:30Ryan Clark?

  What do you want to take a?

• 1:08:30Fred Taylor?

  The day before my birthday, bro.

• 1:08:56Speaker 05

  Every game day, you show up for your team. Now, it's your time.

• 1:09:07Speaker 06

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