Holly & Bridget: Controlling Men 101 (FBF)

Join Alex in the studio for a sit-down interview with former Girls Next Door stars, Holly Madison and Bridget Marquardt. Holly and Bridget shine a light on the darker side of Playboy and detail some of the most shocking experiences they had during their time in the Mansion. They talk about reclaiming their voices and autonomy after years of being controlled by Hugh Hefner. Holly and Bridget get real and tell the Daddy Gang what signs to look out for and how to know when a relationship has turned toxic and controlling. This episode has so many inspiring and empowering conversations about body image, reclaiming and owning your sexuality, and finding the courage to walk away and start over when a situation no longer serves you.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Alex Cooper?

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• 1:08Speaker 01

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• 1:38Alex Cooper?

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• 2:06Speaker 02

  What is up daddy gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper, with Call Her Daddy.

• 2:15Alex Cooper?

  Bridgette and Holly, welcome to Call Her Daddy. Thanks for having us.

• 2:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, thanks so much.

• 2:20Alex Cooper?

  You guys, I was sitting, I think it was like the other week, and I was like, I need a girls' girl episode. I just need to like, talk to girls that get it. And I immediately thought of the two of you, and I'm like, you guys have to come on. So thank you for being here.

• 2:31Speaker 02

  Oh, I love that.

• 2:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:33Alex Cooper?

  So first of all, it's crazy, Holly, because I have a lot of new listeners. And I'm thinking back to when we recorded our first episode together. There may be some people that like, haven't heard it. So guys, if you haven't listened, go listen, because it was amazing. But how long ago was that?

• 2:48Speaker 02

  It was like, two years ago. And it was the first interview I'd done in like, five years, because I was totally anti-doing PR, but I was a fan of your show. And I thought, well, this will be fun. And then you inspired me to start my own podcast. You're totally my inspo, because I had so much fun on that one.

• 3:02Alex Cooper?

  Ah, it was such a good experience. And like, I agree. I think we were like, oh my God, let's have a convo. And we were like, getting so deep. We were both like, emotional. We were like, fuck, that was amazing. So thank you for getting so deep with me on that. And anyone, again, go watch it, because it's incredible. But now I have you two lovely ladies here. And I want to kind of like, maybe people that are new, can you explain, Holly, like, how do you guys know each other? How are you guys friends? How did you guys meet?

• 3:28Speaker 02

  Well, we were living together at the Playboy Mansion for like, seven years. And we were on a show, a reality show called The Girls Next Door, that was on from like, 2005 to 2009. And that's how we know each other. So it was complicated.

• 3:42Alex Cooper?

  To people that maybe are listening, that are like, I don't even know what the Playboy Mansion is. I don't understand any of this. Please, can you kind of like, explain what the Playboy Mansion was like during that time?

• 3:53Speaker 03

  The Playboy Mansion was the place to be at that time. In the early 2000s, everybody wanted to be there. Every celebrity, every girl that I knew of, wanted to be a part of it, wanted to be a playmate, wanted to go to the parties. They had the best parties in the world there. It was just the place that you wanted to go. You wanted to be seen, and you wanted to be a part of that whole lifestyle.

• 4:16Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. It's like a fairy tale. It looks like from the outside with all these beautiful women. So it's like, what girl wouldn't want to just like, pop in and get like, a living space to be around all these people? When you talk about these parties, like, can you, like, who was the most famous person you ever saw at a party? Like, give some context, like, the caliber of people that were at these places?

• 4:37Speaker 02

  Well, at the time, it was like, the biggest movie stars, like Leonardo DiCaprio, and Jim Carrey, and Cameron Diaz, and people like that.

• 4:43Speaker 03

  George Clooney.

• 4:44Speaker 02

  Yeah. And the crazy thing is, like, nobody had like, smartphones back then. And you were not allowed to bring cameras in. If you got caught with a camera, you'd be immediately kicked out. So people felt comfortable going there and partying. And like, Hef had his personal cameras there and personal videographers. But people felt comfortable that they weren't going to be exposed. So big celebrities felt comfortable going, and you would just see all kinds of people there.

• 5:07Alex Cooper?

  I don't think anyone ever, in generations moving forward, will ever experience that type of like, anonymity when they walk into a room at a party.

• 5:15Speaker 02

  No.

• 5:15Alex Cooper?

  Like, the concept, and I can imagine, like, it maybe was more freeing for a lot of people to know, like, you're not going to, I literally wake up the next day, sometimes after parties, and I see like, I'm tagged in a video. And I'm like, oh my God, like, I smile like that? Or I'm like, breathing that way? Like, what's, you can wake up and that kind of world. It's just so different to think back, like, not having cameras. Like, were you guys at parties, did you feel that same way, like, very free? Or were you still stressed, because you were kind of working in a way?

• 5:45Speaker 02

  Well, when I was just a guest there, it felt very free. And like, you were kind of a fly on the wall, and just watching everybody. But once we moved in, and we're Hef's girlfriends, you were kind of required to sit at the table the whole time, unless you had to like, run to go to the bathroom. And you could get up and dance a little bit. But you were kind of like, greeting everybody that came to say hi to him. So it wasn't, like, we definitely didn't feel free, I don't think.

• 6:08Speaker 03

  No.

• 6:08Speaker 02

  We would get trashed, but.

• 6:10Speaker 03

  We had to stay with an eyeshot of Hef and the area. Like, we couldn't just go walking around and be like, let's go check this out. Let's go enjoy this party.

• 6:19Alex Cooper?

  Also, like, I wonder, like, did you guys ever want to not get too drunk? Because like, then would you like, do something that you would be like, in the morning, like, oh, are you not going to get in trouble? Like, did you guys ever have to watch yourselves? Because I'm sure people are doing drugs and drinking and all the things. Like, what was that dynamic?

• 6:33Speaker 02

  I got wasted all the time. But I feel like, for me too, it was part of like, a way to disassociate a little bit, just because a lot of the things that were going on at the house, I wasn't really comfortable with. And that was just kind of like, my escape. But I was trashed all the time.

• 6:48Alex Cooper?

  You're like, I was hammered, actually, Alex. So thank you. Absolutely not was I ever sober. Obviously, back then, like, there was such a beauty standard, I think, that was like, very specific to the mansion and the Playboy world. Can you guys talk about that? And like, what were you expected to look like?

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• 10:01Speaker 02

  Well, I think the most harmful thing was just the thinness, because like, eating disorders were really rampant. Like, there was a lot of bulimia at the mansion, to the point where people would end up in the hospital sometimes, to the point where like, bathroom pipes had to be replaced, which, I didn't believe that rumor for a while, because I was like, no, that's too over the top. You don't have to replace a bathroom pipe because of somebody's stomach acid. But then somebody confirmed that that was true.

• 10:23Alex Cooper?

  Did you guys both experience problems with like, and struggles with eating?

• 10:27Speaker 02

  I've never had like really an eating disorder per se, but I used to count every single calorie. And I was really obsessed with being very, very thin and I definitely experienced body dysmorphia where I would see footage of myself and think, oh my God, I let myself really get out of control. This is so embarrassing. And I look back on that footage now and I'm like, oh wait, what was I thinking?

• 10:48Alex Cooper?

  Tiny.

• 10:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, because back then the beauty standard was just like you had to be so thin.

• 10:53Alex Cooper?

  What about you, Bridgette?

• 10:54Speaker 03

  I did not have an eating disorder, but I look back at all of the footage from Girls Next Door and I, I was really, um, they tried to fat shame me basically. And they tried to make me, uh, I'm the big girl, the heavy girl of the group. And they tried to shame me for eating in every way they could. And I remember noticing it at the time and, and talking to the producer about it and telling him it really upset me that he did that because I felt like I had a really healthy relationship with food and exercise and, um, and was not heavier than the other girls, but still to this day, people think that I am the fat one from the show.

• 11:32Alex Cooper?

  It's so interesting you say that because I remember watching the show and I didn't remember that until you're saying it. I'm like, oh yeah, I do remember like the concept of like, if you weren't actually to the point where you looked sickly, then you were like fat, considered fat. Wait, so producers said that to you to your face?

• 11:50Speaker 03

  Well, I told him that I didn't appreciate it and he, he just said it's funny. And he thinks it's funny. He thinks it's a funny gag that he keeps doing to me.

• 12:00Alex Cooper?

  But you never ended up like succumbing to that pressure and you like never had then issues with eating.

• 12:06Speaker 03

  Never had issues with eating, but I'm always worried about it. And especially after that now, now I'm always, and people will come up to me and still be like, oh, you've lost a lot of weight. And I'm just like, what are you talking about?

• 12:17Alex Cooper?

  Right, like first of all, shut the fuck up. Don't comment on people's bodies. How about that? And second of all, shut the fuck up. It's so sad because I think a lot of what I wanted to talk about today is like, how maybe we have progressed a little bit in society with like, but then I'm sitting here and I'm like, not really, like, I feel like even especially with like the thinness and the body dysmorphia for women, it's just, social media has made it worse. Like sure, back then Playboy, it was like, if you see this magazine, this is what you should look like. And all the women of like dye your hair bleach blonde and have thick boobs and blah, blah, blah. And it was all just to look a certain way, but now I'm like, I feel like it's the same thing with like, whether it's like look like the Kardashian's or look like now like the models. It's like as women, we can never just be like,

• 13:02Alex Cooper?

  happy with the way that we look. And it's really sad and it's unfortunate. I guess I'm curious, since you guys had such a fixation on the way that you looked for so long, like, is it still lingering that when you guys look in the mirror, you still have those like twitches of like making sure you look perfect?

• 13:21Speaker 02

  A hundred percent.

• 13:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 13:23Speaker 02

  To the point where on the way over here, I was talking about how cool it was that Pamela Anderson went to Fashion Week in no makeup. And I'm like, I will never be brave enough to do that, but I'm glad somebody is like, thank God.

• 13:34Alex Cooper?

  Right. No, you're so right.

• 13:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:36Alex Cooper?

  What about you, Bridgette? Like when you're just like alone with yourself, looking in the mirror, like are you still finding yourself being like, re- almost like regressing to those days of like, look this way, feel this way?

• 13:46Speaker 03

  Absolutely. Yeah.

• 13:47Alex Cooper?

  Dude.

• 13:48Speaker 03

  Oh, it's something I think about every day.

• 13:51Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 13:51Speaker 03

  Multiple times a day. I mean, multiple times on the way over here.

• 13:54Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 13:55Speaker 02

  I feel like it's so hard to deprogram from. Like I would love to say I've evolved past that, but it would take a lot longer.

• 14:02Alex Cooper?

  But I don't even think like, I agree with you guys, but I also don't even think like, of course you guys were in a situation where it was so over the top and like to the absolute extreme, but I feel like so many women that are gonna listen to this are gonna be like, me too. Like I don't know one woman that doesn't have some type of insecurity because of the way they look, not because they actually felt about themselves, but because either society or someone said something to their face and was like, you should look this way or, or I don't like that about you. Like, oh, you're fat or oh, you're this. And then it stays with you. It's like fucking exhausting.

• 14:38Speaker 02

  It really is exhausting. That's the perfect word for it.

• 14:40Speaker 03

  And if it's not weight, it's age too.

• 14:43Alex Cooper?

  Like, talk about that.

• 14:44Speaker 03

  Like you shouldn't be dressing like that or you should, you know, look your age or whatever. And I, I feel like I am looking my age. I'm looking how I wanna look. Like, this is how I wanna look.

• 14:54Alex Cooper?

  I did something recently where people were like, you're getting too old to party. Like this is not cute. And I'm like, I wanna be fucking eighty in the nursing home, like ripping shots, like going out on a bang.

• 15:04Speaker 03

  And you should, like, who cares? If that's what you wanna do, that's what you should do.

• 15:08Alex Cooper?

  As we get older and it's something that I've thought about a lot of is like, I started the show when I was pretty young and like, it's sad to say this, but I'm realizing like it is such a privilege to get older. Like we're all so fortunate if we make it to thirty-five, make it to forty, make it to fifty. Like that's a fucking privilege. And to even see like signs of life on your body of like wrinkles, like, oh my God, you've lived, you've gone through shit. But for women specifically, that's just like, once, it's almost like when you hit thirty, thirty-five, it's like, well, you're, you're, you're out of your prime. It's over. Like, can you talk to me about how you guys handle that?

• 15:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, that was definitely a thing at Playboy. I feel like the unspoken cutoff age for like a playmate was twenty-eight. Like there would be a few outliers here and there, but usually like twenty-eight was kinda like, mm, she's twenty-eight, you know, and it's just, like I never, I never wanna put a limit on myself like that for anything. And I just feel like even being a mom too, like I have to be really careful about what I put out there cause there's always gonna be somebody who's gonna say like, I don't wanna do anything to embarrass my kids, but I could just put out like a bikini picture that I think is cute and isn't even really sexy. And there's gonna be people I know weighing in like, you need to take that down. Like that's inappropriate. And it's also like, why are really young women the only ones who are allowed to be sexy? Like that's kind of like, so true.

• 16:29Speaker 03

  A big eye roll.

• 16:29Alex Cooper?

  No, it's actually when you say that, it's so interesting to me to be like, if anything, the young women should like refrain a little bit because you're getting to know yourself. Like you wanna like understand yourself before you're actually just like putting it out there to the world. Once we hit a certain age, I'm like, I know how to handle the criticism. I know that like men aren't shit that are objectifying me. It's like, we should continue to celebrate at every age. It's not just like, our worth stops at a certain age, but it's, I could sit here forever and talk about it. It's so frustrating because you guys, I'm sure it's hard for you too. And I don't know if you can talk about this, like, obviously we're sitting here talking about these like prime years that people talk to you guys about, but

• 17:09Alex Cooper?

  I'm sure you guys probably would beg to differ of like that those weren't your prime years in terms of how you felt about yourself.

• 17:16Speaker 02

  Not at all. I feel like life just keeps getting better and that I want it to keep getting better. And I think that's the way it should be for everybody.

• 17:22Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. Wasn't there something about like, people would take Polaroids of you and then they would grade your Polaroid and that would like determine what parties you were allowed to get invited to?

• 17:33Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 17:33Alex Cooper?

  Can you explain that?

• 17:34Speaker 02

  Well, when you would arrive to a party, if you were a female, they, they would take a Polaroid of you and then Hef would go through all of them after the party and grade them like A, B, C, or D. D, you're not invited back. C, you're maybe on the big party list. B, you're like on all the party list, like big or small. And then A, you'd get invited to like the pool parties and stuff like that.

• 17:54Alex Cooper?

  Dude. Was there anyone at the time between the women that was like, guys, this is like kinda fucked up or no?

• 18:01Speaker 02

  I don't think so because I feel like we were so ingrained in it that that seemed like, like it sounds crazy talking about it now, but I feel like the graded Polaroids seemed like the least of the issues to me at the time.

• 18:14Speaker 03

  Well, I remember I knew about the Polaroids cause obviously I've had them taken of me before, but I didn't realize the grading on them until later. And I remember being kinda shocked by that and be like, oh, they're great. Oh, that's how these work?

• 18:27Alex Cooper?

  Bridgette's like taking the photo like, how do I look? And then later you're like, oh, fuck, that was for a grading system.

• 18:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, totally, totally.

• 18:35Alex Cooper?

  Um, when you just said that, Holly, it made me think like, okay, if that was like the least of your worries, can you guys talk to me about as a woman, looking back now with like hindsight, like what was the hardest moments that you're like, damn, like, that was so fucked up of how objectified we were being as women for our bodies and our looks. And no one gave a fuck about like what we had in the inside.

• 18:57Speaker 02

  I mean, I think, I mean, there's so many layers to that. I think for me personally, when I think about the worst thing, I just think about like anything in the bedroom and just the fact that like anybody would be invited in there. And like, we didn't get agree on who got to come in and who got to watch and who got to do whatever. And it was just traumatizing.

• 19:15Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. Oh, I didn't realize. So he could invite people in to watch you guys?

• 19:20Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, I think he wanted everybody to participate, but sometimes people wouldn't. And you would get the feeling with some people, they were just.

• 19:29Speaker 03

  Looky loose.

• 19:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, totally. And then some people would go like blog about it. And I'm like, okay, that's kind of like revenge porn a little bit. You know what I mean?

• 19:37Alex Cooper?

  Not even a little bit, like full fucking blown.

• 19:39Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 19:40Alex Cooper?

  What about you, Bridgette? Like what comes to mind?

• 19:42Speaker 03

  I mean, it definitely has to be the bedroom. It can't get any worse than that. But it, it also was like this, the Mean Girls era that we like to refer to because I just feel like we had no voice during that whole time. It was really hard.

• 19:55Alex Cooper?

  How did you find your voice when you left the mansion?

• 19:58Speaker 02

  I felt like I went through a couple of years of like deprogramming kind of. Cause when I left there, like obviously I knew it was fucked up enough that I didn't wanna stay. But after being there for seven years and being in like the kind of this cult-like environment where everybody worships this one person, for the longest time, if anybody like press or otherwise would ask me about it, I'd be like, oh, everything's great. He's great. Everybody's great. Cause I mean, A, I just didn't wanna like get into it publicly. I just wasn't ready for that yet. And I thought that was the nice thing to do. But looking back, I'm like, it really took me a couple of years to like deprogram and realize that a lot of shit that happened was like fucked up. Like obviously I knew I didn't like it at the time and I knew I had to leave after a certain point, but.

• 20:38Alex Cooper?

  Also, even you just saying that, like, It makes me think about how there's so many people online that, and not even about you, just like anyone that does something that they regret, even like women that did porn, that they're like, I look back now and I wish I didn't do that. People are like, but you did it.

• 20:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:57Alex Cooper?

  You benefited from it. You're there. Like you're famous because of that. Like, and mostly it's men saying this of being like, oh, well, you did it. Like, why are you so upset? Like, it made you who you are today? Can you talk about how you also deal with like, that juxtaposition of like, of course, how you felt in that moment? How are you going to speak up about a man that was one of the most like, highest men in power at the time in the world? Everyone knew this man. Everyone loved this man. Everyone wanted to be this man. And like, who were you, like little Holly Madison to be like, actually, this is abuse. Like, it just wasn't, you couldn't have done that at the time. Um, so can you talk to me a little bit about that of like, seeing those comments about that situation?

• 21:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, when people say that, I mean, I just don't really know what their point is. Like, am I, because I have two choices at this point. I can either lie and say, everything was great. I got to be on a TV show because of it. So cool. But I'm really, if I were to do that, it'd be perpetuating a lifestyle that didn't make me happy and a relationship that didn't make me happy and something I would never recommend for anybody else. Like, who cares if I was on a reality show because of it? Like, anything I've got to do since then, it's because I know how to fucking make lemonade out of lemons. And everybody just wants to act like he handed me every little thing I've done since. And that's just not the case.

• 22:14Alex Cooper?

  True. Bridget, what about you when you left? Like, what was that like repairing your self-image and, and who you were independent of the mansion?

• 22:22Speaker 03

  I think I'm still working on that. I don't think I've done that yet. Um, I did, I kind of left and still did Beaches, my Beaches show for the Travel Channel and, um, still kind of hosted. And I just sort of put it all behind me. I didn't really like, um, look back into it much at all or anything like that.

• 22:43Speaker 02

  I felt like I didn't for a second either, because when you leave the mansion, you realize, fuck, okay, I have had a platform from being on a reality show, so I need to hit the ground running now if I'm gonna like, survive. So you're in survival mode. You're not thinking about going back. Like, it wasn't until a good couple of years after I left, I was looking through that Girls Next Door coffee table book we did that had all these candid shots of us, because I was trying to find a certain picture. And I looked at myself and I'm like, holy shit, I'm fake smiling in all these pictures. Like, maybe not everybody else could recognize that, but I did. And I was like, wow.

• 23:16Alex Cooper?

  I noticed, Bridget, like, you got a little emotional when you just said that.

• 23:19Speaker 03

  Well, I think doing this pod, not this podcast, but our Holly and I's podcast, um, is helping me like, look back on some of the things and some of the things that I'd forgotten about. And, um, and then I also started writing a book too. And that's kind of opened some things up. And I'm, so I'm, I feel like I'm just now in that area, but I don't think I did it before.

• 23:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:39Alex Cooper?

  Can you talk to me a little about that? Like, how does it make you feel?

• 23:42Speaker 03

  It's, it's a, it's a roller coaster ride. Cause like, there's, when we first started, it was, it was emotional and it was bad. And I told Holly, when she first asked me if I wanted to do this podcast of recapping the show, I was like, oh yeah, like I have great memories. Like, everything's good. I have nothing bad to say. Like, we're gonna be like the, the, you're gonna be like all, oh, yeah. That was an awful time. And I'll be like, it was great. It was amazing. And it, that is sort of how it is still. My, my recollection of everything is, um, or my experience that I had with things was a little bit more positive than what Holly had. Not that there wasn't negative things, but like, generally more positive. Um, but we started watching the episodes and I told her, I can't do this.

• 24:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, we were ready to quit after like episode two.

• 24:30Speaker 03

  I was like, oh my God, I totally put this completely out of my head that they, they did this to us, to me in a particular episode. And I don't even know how I can address this. Like, I have, there's nothing I can even say to try and redeem myself out of this.

• 24:49Alex Cooper?

  What was the situation?

• 24:50Speaker 03

  It was episode two. So, season one, episode two, it was supposedly our, um, our episodes. Holly was supposedly episode one, I was episode two, and Kendra's episode three. And, um, episode two, and it has me trying to get the playmates drunk and talking about how jealous I am that they get to get it and I don't. And I'm sabotaging them and stuff, which was not-

• 25:12Speaker 02

  Never happened.

• 25:13Speaker 03

  True. But they show it, they cut it like I'm ordering them shots and making all these girls that are just there testing, do all these shots to ruin their, their test the next day. And I'm just like, how am I even supposed to like, defend myself on this when it looks like that's what I'm doing and that's how I feel?

• 25:33Alex Cooper?

  I'm so sorry. And I, that's something that's so weird about podcasting, which I'm like, happy sad for you guys, because like you said, you're doing a rewatch podcast. And it's, it almost makes you have therapy sessions every week, right?

• 25:47Speaker 02

  Oh, it does. I think so, yeah.

• 25:49Alex Cooper?

  Like, fuck Holly, like, we went through that, we did that. And again, you guys knowing, which must be kind of cathartic, but also kind of fucked up to be like, wait, pause, that's not how it went down. That's not what happened. Let's talk about sexuality a little bit. When did you guys ever first start masturbating?

• 26:14Alex Cooper?

  Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Airbnb. As you guys know, I have basically been working double time throughout this pregnancy to bank episodes for the month that I will be on maternity leave. And a few weeks ago, it all just kind of hit me. I was like, wait, wait, wait, where did summer go? And I was talking about this with Matt and he ended up surprising me with a little staycation. He booked this beautiful home on Airbnb in Malibu so that we could pretend like it was summer while it's still warm here in LA. The weather was perfect. The house was right on the beach, which was so relaxing and amazing. It also had just such a gorgeous kitchen. We stayed in, we cooked dinner together. And,

• 26:56Alex Cooper?

  you know, Daddy Gang, my cooking skills, they have, they have gotten better. They've gotten a little bit better through pregnancy. But it was really just so nice to unplug and spend that time together before the baby comes and we move into this completely new chapter of our life. So whether you're planning a cozy weekend away, or you're just looking for an excuse to unplug for a few days, October is the perfect time to get out of town. Booking a home on Airbnb makes the trip feel even more special because everyone has room to actually spend time together. Whether you're coming back after a long day out, or you're also just cooking dinner. Airbnb makes settling in even easier because you can order groceries for your trip and have all the snacks and essentials delivered after you arrive. My

• 27:41Alex Cooper?

  favorite fall trips always have one thing in common, an amazing place to stay. That's why I always look at Airbnb first. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Okay, so, picture this. You are sitting down for a dinner on a first date. Drinks are ordered, food's on the way, and you're actually excited about this person. But now, it's time. We've done the small talk, and now we have to ask this man the real hard questions. Like, are you looking for something serious? Have you had a girlfriend before? Do you have a headboard? Or are you still rocking navy blue sheets? You gotta ask the right questions early to see if someone is actually right for you,

• 28:24Alex Cooper?

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• 29:12Alex Cooper?

  When did you guys ever first start masturbating? Or even if you do or don't, I don't know.

• 29:18Speaker 02

  Oh, like when I was yet, like I always functioned, I feel in a healthy way sexually, like from high school onward. But I just, I don't know if it was like I wasn't emotionally ready to deal with a relationship or the possibility of getting feeling attached to somebody through sex.

• 29:36Alex Cooper?

  It's such a weird time when you're younger because you're like, that didn't feel good when I had sex with him. And then you're like, if you start masturbating, you're like, oh, I think this is nice. But also like, oh my God, don't let anyone know or else I'm going to fucking hell. And then it's like, when you start having sex at that age, like it's really not about finding pleasure for yourself. Like it is still about the man. It's like, did he get off? And there's like just so many weird things that come with that, that it's just like, it fucks with your head.

• 30:02Speaker 03

  Can I say one more thing about the masturbation?

• 30:04Alex Cooper?

  Please come back.

• 30:06Speaker 03

  I will say that that is one positive thing for me that came out of the mansion and the upstairs bedroom thing. Is that, um, that became very normalized.

• 30:15Alex Cooper?

  Oh.

• 30:16Speaker 03

  With the Mr. Hitachi.

• 30:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, just like people would just like usually like roll over with their vibrator.

• 30:22Alex Cooper?

  We stop.

• 30:23Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 30:24Alex Cooper?

  There was a bunch of vibrators who were like.

• 30:25Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. Sorry. Let me explain the scene really quick.

• 30:28Alex Cooper?

  Wait, Bridget, what's the Mr. Hitachi?

• 30:31Speaker 03

  There's, there's a vibrator called Mr. Hitachi.

• 30:34Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 30:35Speaker 02

  Is it called Mr. Hitachi?

• 30:36Speaker 03

  I thought it was. Oh, maybe I call him Mr. Hitachi.

• 30:41Alex Cooper?

  This was the man in my life for seven years while I was at the mansion. Okay. This is what got me off.

• 30:47Speaker 03

  But I'm just like, um, so we have those at the mansion. And, um, I'm just gonna say that was like amazing and that opened my eyes to what could happen. And, um, I still have Mr. Hitachi today.

• 31:02Speaker 02

  I think we like asked for them for stocking stuffers.

• 31:04Speaker 03

  We did because they're incredible. If you don't have one, get on Amazon right now.

• 31:10Speaker 02

  But you have to order it from the Hitachi site because Amazon sells knockoffs that break.

• 31:15Speaker 03

  Oh, no.

• 31:16Alex Cooper?

  What does it look like?

• 31:17Speaker 02

  Fire beware. It's a giant thing. It's like a jackhammer and it's white.

• 31:23Alex Cooper?

  Oh, that big.

• 31:24Speaker 03

  With the brown thing on the end.

• 31:25Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, it almost looks like a microphone.

• 31:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:27Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 31:28Speaker 03

  And it's for backs and stuff too supposedly.

• 31:31Speaker 02

  Allegedly.

• 31:32Speaker 03

  They say, but everybody knows what that's for.

• 31:35Alex Cooper?

  I actually was gifted one and I remember trying to use it. It's like, that is like an arm workout. It's like kinda really heavy.

• 31:43Speaker 03

  You'll get used to it.

• 31:45Alex Cooper?

  Do you see these guns bitch?

• 31:49Alex Cooper?

  Okay, so you're saying, oh my God, I can't. You're saying, which actually I can understand, I guess, like at that age, you're clearly not getting off because of him in the room, laying in the bed. He's like fucking about to croak.

• 32:03Speaker 03

  And we're not allowed to date.

• 32:05Alex Cooper?

  Right. So you're like, my best friend is my vibrator.

• 32:08Speaker 03

  And there was a long period where there was no bedroom anymore either. So there was like three years or four years or something like that where, where there was, we're not allowed to date and there is no bedroom. So it's like.

• 32:19Alex Cooper?

  Mr. Hitachi?

• 32:21Alex Cooper?

  Oh my God, I love that.

• 32:22Speaker 02

  And now every, that's gonna go on sale. We need a graphic of like, uh, stocking, like a Christmas stocking.

• 32:29Alex Cooper?

  Literally Bridget, get that coin bitch. Let's go. That's so funny. And so you literally would just be like, okay, fuck this. Like I'm gonna roll over and like, and then you ended up really leaning into being able to like, okay, I can masturbate and get myself off. This doesn't have to be full hell.

• 32:43Speaker 03

  Yeah. And it didn't make me feel so embarrassed about it either. Like I felt very, it, it made me feel like this is a natural thing that we should, we should be doing.

• 32:51Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. Without getting like too graphic, because like when, whatever you guys are comfortable with. I have a lot of, a lot of women write in of just like, being in situations that you're not comfortable, but not knowing how to speak up for yourself and basically being kind of pressured into doing something that you almost can't even comprehend until you have time away from it. Bridget and Holly, talk to me about just like those moments that like as a woman, you didn't know you were expected to have sex with this man or do all of this. Like mentally as young women, where were you at in just this experience with this situation sexually?

• 33:31Speaker 02

  I feel like I was just so in over my head and so drunk that first night. And like, it's not like I didn't know that sex was gonna go on upstairs. But I thought, well, this is my first time out with them. Who has sex on the first date? I'll just go up and like, see what's going on. But I was super wasted and you know, shit just happened.

• 33:50Speaker 03

  For me, I full on knew that that was gonna be expected, but I too thought, well, the first night though, like surely I can just be like, oh, it's the first night and like get out of this. And I didn't even want to go upstairs the first night, but then I was pressured by another girl who said, if you ever want to be invited out again, you better get your ass upstairs.

• 34:09Alex Cooper?

  Wow.

• 34:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, there was another girl who we call the recruiter. And there were different people who like functioned as the recruiter over the years. And it's just interesting how these men who victimize other women often have like a woman, like a Ghislaine Maxwell type that will go out and get the other girls and make them feel comfortable or pressure them. Harvey Weinstein had people like that too. It's crazy.

• 34:28Alex Cooper?

  It's like they make you feel like you actually have no choice. And it's like woman to woman, like let's go, let's do this. And you're kinda like, I, I, I guess. It's almost like the biggest bully that like leads the charge that if you say no, you're completely done. And it's like, you don't have a minute to think for yourself. When you say you knew you had to do these things, did like girls say that to you?

• 34:48Speaker 03

  Well, I had been hanging out long enough that I knew what was going on up there. And I'd heard all kinds of rumors of what happened in the limo. And when Hef asked me the first time to come out, I said, oh, I've heard what happened.

• 35:00Speaker 03

  And I don't want to do that. And he was like, oh, and he just like laughed it off and was not offended by that.

• 35:04Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 35:05Speaker 03

  So I knew, I knew that that was gonna be expected of me. Um, and I, I put a lot of thought into that because it wasn't something that, like I, I wasn't promiscuous. I didn't have like a lot of people that I had been with. That wasn't something I was like excited to be doing.

• 35:21Alex Cooper?

  Can you talk to me, Bridget, about like after that first night, what, what were you going through?

• 35:28Speaker 03

  Torture in my own head that very next morning. Like I felt ashamed. I felt disgusting. I felt like I really let myself down. Um,

• 35:40Speaker 03

  I felt really lonely and I'm in a house where there's like a lot of people, but I'm like, oh no, I feel so lonely and feel so gross and I have to get out of here. Like I have to get out of here right now.

• 35:52Alex Cooper?

  And then what happened?

• 35:54Speaker 03

  Then I went, I still had an apartment, like I wasn't living at the mansion yet. And, um, I went back to my apartment and then that night, that afternoon, the, um, mansion, like the social secretary has called and said, Hef wants you to meet tomorrow and go, or tonight and go to, um, the Craig Kilborn show with him and all his girlfriends. He's gonna be on it and wants you to do that. And, and it's like, all of a sudden, it's like kind of exciting again. Wait, they want me to go to the Craig Kilborn show? Like what? And so then I go on the Craig, and then not only are, am I going to like sit in the audience with Hef and everybody, but they have all of us girls shooting a skit backstage. And, and the thing we have to do is go, hi, I'm Hef's girlfriend. And the next person says, hi, I'm Hef's girlfriend. Hi, I'm Hef's girlfriend.

• 36:39Speaker 03

  That was the skit, like not a big deal or anything, but like all of a sudden you feel like you're a part of this, this thing, you know?

• 36:46Alex Cooper?

  That's so interesting too, to be like leaving in a moment

• 36:51Alex Cooper?

  for women. And I think that's the most annoying when people are like, well, then why did you go back? Why did you go back? Like, I feel like that's such a common thing, whether it was an abusive situation where it's like, why didn't you leave? Why didn't you go back? That's so common, not just even to this situation, which I appreciate you guys talking about this because it's a larger conversation for women of like, why didn't you leave? Why did you go back? Talk to me about that of how like explaining to people that are fucking idiots that don't get it. It's like, it's not that simple. Like clearly you had this like, oh my God, there's this feeling of this man is so much, there's power and there's things that come with this, but the sexual aspect of it, like, did you ever become okay with it? Did you just disassociate?

• 37:30Speaker 03

  Well, now it's the point where I've done it now. So like now, if I leave and I just throw this all away now, like I did it all for nothing.

• 37:38Speaker 02

  And you feel like everybody knows, right? Cause that's kinda your social circle too. Like I felt like my two roommates had like moved away and right before I moved in, like this was the mansion community. It was a place I like went every Sunday for the pool parties. And I felt like, oh shit, I just went upstairs and had sex. Like they're all gonna talk, like they're all gonna know. So I might as well get what I came here for, you know?

• 37:59Alex Cooper?

  Can you guys talk to me a little bit about that of like, cause I, it is sadly so relatable, Bridget. Of like what you guys are saying of like, I already did it. Like it's even, I think when women are in a situation that's like, well, now he's hit me twice, but like he's not gonna do it again. And then when it happens again, you're like, but that's the last time. Like you rationalize in your mind because you're kind of trying to survive through this shit. Once you just kinda threw yourself into that world, did you guys ever have moments by yourself in those rooms to be like, what, what is happening? Who am I? Like, am I losing myself?

• 38:31Speaker 02

  We would definitely vent to each other about certain things, but a lot of it, I feel like was deflected for a couple of years because there were seven girlfriends, a lot of them we didn't get along with. There was a lot of bullying and things like that. And I didn't recognize it at the time, but looking back, I feel like he kind of like encouraged that and kind of, it's like you keep people, it's like divide and conquer. Like you keep like two sides divided, then we can't all meet up and be like, you know what? We should see if he'll like give us extra money for this or else we're not going into the bedroom. Like he doesn't want that happening.

• 39:01Alex Cooper?

  I'm curious to know, because obviously like you guys experienced one of the biggest. Like what do you guys think drives controlling men?

• 39:12Speaker 02

  Insecurity.

• 39:15Speaker 02

  Like you would look at someone like him and think he has no reason to be insecure. He's so successful. He has so many women around him. He throws the best parties. But that man was so insecure. It was insane.

• 39:27Speaker 03

  I think he was really afraid of dying alone.

• 39:30Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, so he's like, I'm gonna have ten girlfriends at all times, so I'm not alone. Wow.

• 39:35Speaker 02

  Or being alone, and not even just dying alone, but just being alone at all. Like if somebody, he didn't even want to let us go home for the holidays. So, and at some points, he had like over seven girlfriends.

• 39:47Alex Cooper?

  Right, you're like, bro, also like, we barely talk, like, let's keep it, like, come on, like, when, after you guys got out of there, like, did you find yourselves, like, talk to me about your dating patterns, like, after that, did you have like an aversion to, like, men in positions of power? Were you still attracted to men? Like, what was your, what was your type, essentially?

• 40:08Speaker 02

  Well, for me, I went straight into another relationship that mirrored the Playboy relationship in some ways, and got out of that very quickly, and that was kind of like a gift in a way, that it showed me that this is a pattern, this isn't just anomaly behavior, because this man was in a position, this is something that any man can do if he wants to. So luckily, I was shown that very quickly and realized what I didn't want. And then I just dated kind of casually for a couple of years, and then I met the man that I married and had kids with, and I'm divorced now, but I'm in another relationship that I've been in for four years, so.

• 40:43Alex Cooper?

  Amazing. Can you talk, because I'm sure a lot of girls are listening, being like, wait, Holly, like, what can we look out for? Like, not even just talking about Heff, like, what are some things, even in that next relationship, that like, when you look at someone that is controlling like that, like, what are things that maybe in the moment, you're like, is that a red flag? But you can kind of sweep under the rug, like, what's something that you now are like, don't let this happen, don't let this happen, and don't let this happen?

• 41:07Speaker 02

  I think the first sign is definitely moving too fast, or, you know, what people call love bombing. Like, I remember after I went out with Heff and the girls the first time, he called me to invite me out the next time, and he said, I love you. And I remember thinking, haha, that's funny, but that's how he operates. Like, he wants people to feel like emotionally comfortable, and like, oh, this is romantic, and you're special, and you're so mature for your age, and all that BS. Or like, if somebody wants you to move in with them right away, or, you know, starting to like insert little controlling behaviors, they might give excuses for it, or they might try and act like it's in your best interest, or, don't go do that show, I'll set you up with a better show. I mean, yeah.

• 41:47Speaker 03

  Or make you feel bad for wanting to go see your family or whatever, and wanting you to spend it with them, but they make it seem like it's romantic, like, well, I want to spend it with you, I want you here with me and stuff, but it's really, they don't want you to go see your family.

• 41:58Alex Cooper?

  That's so interesting, too, which I know it's probably so hard again when you're in it, but you're so right. It's like, if you write it down on a piece of paper, like, what are they telling you? That they want to spend the holiday with you, but what is actually like physically happening? I'm not allowed to see my family because of this, like, and you're so right, Holly, it's like, the way that they twist it, I feel like I've heard so much of like, when men are controlling of like what you wear, and it's more like, I just, I want you to respect yourself, like, I, I'm looking out for you, and it's like, the fuck? Like, you're just, you're actually telling me what I can and cannot wear, but they pose it as like, I, I just want like people to respect you, and like, I want you to like, not look like a whore, and you're a little like, huh? Like, they twist it, so it's like, you're right, like, they're looking out for you, but really, it's they're looking out for you to

• 42:44Alex Cooper?

  put you more in their thumb and just shove you down, so that it's like every move you almost question and keep looking at them. Bridget, did you end up going and dating someone similar, or did you?

• 42:53Speaker 03

  No. I met somebody right out of the gate, out of the mansion. I mean, I met him at the mansion, actually. And we've been together for fifteen years, ever since.

• 43:04Alex Cooper?

  Girl! Oh, my god.

• 43:15Alex Cooper?

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• 43:57Alex Cooper?

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• 44:39Alex Cooper?

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• 45:18Alex Cooper?

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• 46:04Alex Cooper?

  Wait, how did you know?

• 46:06Speaker 03

  Um, I don't know, I guess, I don't really believe in love at first sight or anything like that, but I definitely thought he was so hot at first sight.

• 46:15Alex Cooper?

  Check, love that.

• 46:16Speaker 03

  It had to be a little bit of a, a slow burn, because I wasn't allowed to date, but yet I thought he was really hot, and he was a director, so I was producing a horror movie, and I was looking for directors, and so it started with like just some texts, like, actual emails, like, business-wise, and, and working together like that, and then as soon as I knew my foot was like, it wasn't even fully out of the door, but it was like, reaching over the threshold, we were like dating.

• 46:43Alex Cooper?

  Oh, my god. Your relationship to men, I feel like it's really difficult as women when you're wronged by so many men, and like, treated the way that you were, and spoken to the way that you were, like,

• 46:58Alex Cooper?

  is there, like, how did, how did you, like, how do you feel about men in general, and like, the world, and like, obviously, it's not all men, but like, it's fucking hard to like go through what you guys went through and be like, men are amazing, like, how, how did, when, once you left the mansion and you actually started to have hindsight of like, what the fuck happened there? Like, how do you feel about men?

• 47:19Speaker 02

  I mean, I feel like I'm lucky I've had experience with, with good men as well, and I think it's just, you know, I'm forty-four now, and I kind of like, don't give as much of a fuck about like what other people think, so I'm able to speak up for myself more, and if somebody's doing something that I think is based in sexism, I'll just like say it, and like, I don't care.

• 47:38Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, I fucking love that. Yeah, what about you, Bridget?

• 47:40Speaker 03

  I go through phases, it depends on my mood, I think. Like, I know I'm with a really good guy, and, um, but there's some things that happen sometimes, and I can't even think of a specific example at the moment, but like, something will happen, and I'll be like, I fucking hate men, like, Jesus, and then, and then my boyfriend will be, or my husband will be like, oh, you know what?

• 48:02Speaker 02

  They're not all bad. And I'm like, oh yeah, you're right.

• 48:04Alex Cooper?

  Right. He's like, uh, babe, like, love you. And you're like, oh, wait, yeah. I think it's important to just acknowledge and talk about because I think the hatred can be real and it's, and it's justifiable. And it, and it, it makes me upset where like, I know for so long, even with like the feminist movement, people were like, oh God, like you're just a man hater. It's not that. It's like, when you've been so wronged by men who historically white hetero men in positions of power, like it's just abuse all fucking day. And of course, we're not saying that there aren't good ones, but when you've been at the hands of someone that is so fucking disturbed in how they abuse their power, it must be hard to like, trust people of like,

• 48:48Speaker 02

  Oh, for sure. I definitely have like trust issues. Like it takes a minute.

• 48:52Alex Cooper?

  Talk to me about that.

• 48:53Speaker 02

  I mean, I just takes me like a really long time. Like in my last couple of relationships, I moved pretty slow just because I really wanted to get to know people. And I would even talk with my friends who've also been in toxic relationships and we came up with a thing like, how long does it take for a guy to show his toxicity? Cause they always act real cool in the beginning. We decided like, it's usually like three to six months. So I'm real careful the first six months.

• 49:16Alex Cooper?

  They're like, should I sleep over? You're like, at the six month mark, maybe, but until then keep your fucking distance.

• 49:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:22Alex Cooper?

  That's so true. It kinda is that three to six.

• 49:25Speaker 02

  It really is. And it's crazy looking back to think that like, you could even get into a relationship where you're like, straight up living with somebody and feeling dependent on them within three months, but it happens all the time.

• 49:36Alex Cooper?

  And again, like, we're still programmed. It's, we're still like, all of us are born with internalized misogyny. Like we're born into this world and it's like, men rule, women, like it's still that way. Like we're having to unlearn it. So I think there's those natural things when a man makes you feel taken care of. And when a man does certain things for you, you can't help but be like, huh. And it's like, I do think we're getting better now where it's like, no, ladies, ladies, no. Like if anything, if you're feeling too good at the first, like a couple of dates, just pause. Cause if it's actually that good and he's actually that amazing, he can wait and it will happen. But I think sometimes that pressure feeling, it's hard to describe because you're like, is it excitement? Or do I feel like pressure to like, do these things with him?

• 50:21Alex Cooper?

  Um, and it's hard to discern like, what is it healthy? Is it toxic? Like what's the situation? But yeah, I, I appreciate you be like saying that Bridgette of just like, some days I fucking.

• 50:33Speaker 02

  I mean, little things will set me off. Like somebody's tone, the way they talk to me and stuff, or a guy will tell me to smile, which sends me, sends me.

• 50:43Alex Cooper?

  Give me a pretty smile. And you're like, oh, shut the fuck up. Like literally just shut up.

• 50:47Speaker 02

  Like things like that happening. I'm just like, ah, I hate men.

• 50:51Alex Cooper?

  Can you give advice to girls that maybe are sitting there being like, am I in one of those situations right now? Like, how do you get out? How do you actually leave something like that? That's so all consuming and suffocating.

• 51:04Speaker 02

  I think first like making a plan for yourself on what you're gonna do. Cause oftentimes when people are stuck in these relationships, there's a financial element. And a lot of, when people want to criticize and be like, well, why didn't you leave? Nobody says that to somebody when it's a job. Like if somebody has a sucky boss or a toxic work environment, they might complain about it for days, but you understand why they're there. Cause they need the paycheck. But if you're in a relationship or a living situation where there's some kind of financial component, people are like, well, why don't you just fucking leave? You know?

• 51:30Alex Cooper?

  Such a good point.

• 51:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, stupid.

• 51:32Alex Cooper?

  And I do think that's a good point that you said of like, a lot of the times also the reason that's, it's hard to get out of something is because you can't, you don't tell anyone. So like it, you can't confide in people. The person that you talk to the most is the person that's basically abusing you. And so you're like, where do I go now?

• 51:48Speaker 02

  And they oftentimes want to isolate you. I think the best thing is coming up with a plan. Like what are you gonna do for work? Where are you gonna go? Who's your support system?

• 51:56Speaker 03

  Saving money.

• 51:57Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. What do you guys think is like the biggest misconception about you as like former playmates? Like, what do you think is that something that like maybe frustrates you?

• 52:08Speaker 02

  That we're one dimensional, I think.

• 52:10Speaker 03

  Unintelligent.

• 52:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:12Speaker 03

  Bimbos. I said that at the start of the show and I'm still saying that 20 years later. People think we're bimbos. If you're blonde and have big boobs and we're in Playboy, you're clearly not very smart.

• 52:23Alex Cooper?

  What do you say to those people?

• 52:24Speaker 03

  I feel like I'm just tired of defending it. And I feel like I've proved myself. I have a master's degree. Like we have a successful podcast. We've had successful careers. I mean, what more do you want?

• 52:36Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 52:36Speaker 03

  People are always gonna say that. The fact that I like pink, the fact that I like Barbies, the fact that I love Halloween, all of that is like belittled. And like, you can't be intelligent and like those things too.

• 52:47Alex Cooper?

  It's so true. It's like, if you are just like a beautiful woman that people like to look to, like look at, sometimes you're just reduced to your looks. And it's like, there's no way that she's smart. There's no way that they have brains. Like there's no way. And it's like, you got to where you are today for a reason. And you guys have such a successful business that you, like you said, Holly, like you've created something of yourself and it has nothing to do with him. Like he's fucking dead and you're like, you're still cranking and you've got your businesses and you're going. And like, that was so long ago. I do understand why people are fascinated by it. And I'm sure you guys do at this point too, just because it's such like a world people can't fathom.

• 53:27Alex Cooper?

  But I do think there's a lot of themes today that we've been talking about. That's like, it is kind of relatable. It is women feeling like, well, maybe if I just do it and get my foot in the door, then maybe I'll get taken seriously. And, and okay, maybe that made me feel uncomfortable, but like, next time I'm gonna, I'm gonna do it a little bit differently. And then you get in the situation and you forget how powerful these people are. And it just makes you feel like, okay, but next time, like even you said, Bridgette, you're like, I went home. I felt like shit. I felt disgusting, but then I got the call. And it's like, it's hard to explain when you're in it. What would you tell your younger self now where you're at? Just through life, like we know as women, we go through a lot. You guys have been through relationships and experiences like,

• 54:08Alex Cooper?

  young Holly, young Bridgette, like now where you're at in your life. What would you guys tell yourselves at that young age?

• 54:13Speaker 02

  Don't be so hard on yourself. I mean, it's easy for me to say now, cause I know like everything turned out fine, but I would go back and be like, don't be so miserable. Don't be so hard on yourself. It's not the end of the world, you know?

• 54:25Alex Cooper?

  Love it.

• 54:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, things do work out. Like, cause there were times where I didn't think it was going to. There was times where I was like, I have to have a plan B now. I don't think there, I don't think I'm gonna be here tomorrow, kind of the thing.

• 54:38Alex Cooper?

  It's, we're all our own worst enemies. Um, but I can't thank you guys enough for coming because I feel like there's so many themes that now, and I'm sure you guys are talking about on your show that like, it's relatable, what you guys have been through and it's taking a different form in every generation, but like, it's still happening.

• 54:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think so too.

• 54:57Alex Cooper?

  Right?

• 54:58Speaker 03

  It's definitely still happening.

• 54:59Alex Cooper?

  Like, I don't know if you guys thought for a while, did you guys feel like you were just like in this own bubble of like, we, no one can relate? And now do you guys kind of feel like you're like seeing like, fuck, this is like, kind of what a lot of women go through?

• 55:11Speaker 02

  Absolutely. I remember when we were at the mansion, I didn't feel like I was necessarily setting a bad example by being there, being on TV. Cause I'm like, well, this couldn't happen anywhere else. Like I know this situation sucks for me in a lot of ways, but it doesn't happen anywhere else. But it does happen a lot of other places. Like there were even other places in LA, they would call them like mini mansions. Where like, there would be guys that kind of like behaved in the same way hef did and had women there and stuff. And I, we heard a lot of crazy bad stories about those places too. And every time we watch an episode for our podcast, I think of some kind of issue that's relatable to people.

• 55:47Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. Even you saying that I'm like promoters. I remember in college, like I didn't want to hook up with this one guy, but like, he was getting all of my friends and I into this place. And I'm just like in his car and I'm like, uh, uh, uh, okay. And like, he's like, kind of pressuring me. And I'm like, I don't know what to say. And it's like, it's difficult, but it's like, you see it everywhere. It's like, when you don't have independence and financial stability, like it is such a fucking privilege to be financially stable. Because when you're not, it is fucking hard to look at someone and turn something down that is, although again, you get that weird gut feeling of like, I don't want to do this. The, the reward of like what you could get to, cause we're not thinking about the moment.

• 56:30Alex Cooper?

  We're like, will I meet the people in the room? Could I get the job from this? Like, it's like you said, it's the Harvey Weinstein shit. It's like, oh, he's threatening my whole fucking career. So I guess I have to sleep with this man or Hollywood is never gonna give me another job. Like, it's never the, in the moment that you're actually having to think about. It's where you're thinking past it. And that's what I think is lost on people is like, we as women aren't just making these decisions of like, okay, this seems cool in the moment. No, it's like, there's a plan that you have to think of, of like surviving in your head. And I, and I don't appreciate that people can't be that, like they just are so dense that they're like, well, you just wanted to have sex with an old man. It's like,

• 57:07Alex Cooper?

  it's so much more complex than that. Like, but there are guys that would say that in comments of like, oh, like you, what, you're complaining now. And it's like, that's just not the case. So I appreciate you guys coming on. You both are like, you're, you're so inspirational. And I, I'm just like excited to continue to see what you guys do. Because although you're like, what you popped off originally on, it's so cool to see you guys continue to build your brands and like, talk about things that are really important. And everyone, please go listen to the podcast because it is so fucking good. Thank you.

• 57:39Speaker 02

  Thank you ladies. Thank you.

• 57:56Alex Cooper?

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