How To Navigate Holiday Landmines: ‘Tis The Season For Grace & Gratitude

The holidays are a time of year for gratitude. So why do so many find it so hard to celebrate? There's a brisk chill outside. By late afternoon it's already dark. Our circadian rhythm dictates we slow down, hunker down and hibernate. But for the next month, we ignore the call of nature, mindlessly hurling ourselves into a frenzied state of overcommitted overextension. Too many obligations. Overspending on things nobody really needs. Keeping up with the Joneses yet never quite matching up. Stress. Anxiety. Conflict. Dread. Debt. But perhaps the biggest trigger of all? Family drama. The treachery of extended family holiday get-togethers can accelerate a perilous emotional state to the breaking point. The patterns are age-old and hard wired, yet each year we make the promise: this time will be different. But then like clockwork, the buttons get pushed. Patience? Mindfulness? Forget it. Reason and composure vanishes, replaced with primal reaction. The spark is lit, and once again you're once riding that emotional rollercoaster you vowed to finally avoid. Depression ensues, only to wake up in January with an emotional hangover no narcotic can salve. What if you could break the pattern? This week Julie and I delve deep into strategies for a new and better holiday experience. Tips and tools to reframe the dynamic, gracefully navigate the emotional minefields, sidestep the consumerist insanity and embrace the fundamental spirit that is meant to define this time of year — gratitude. Specific topics include: * creative vs. commercialized giving * prioritizing self-care * acknowledging family dynamic realities * exercising discretion with respect to social obligations * sealing your energy field * visualization and mindfulness practices * understanding conflict as growth opportunity The show concludes with Humming– a brief humming meditation track written and performed by Julie from her album Jai Home. I sincerely hope you enjoy the exchange. Happy Thanksgiving! Peace + Plants, Rich Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Rich Roll?

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• 0:44Rich Roll?

  It's kind of an amazing thing. For listeners of the show, all you special people, we're offering an exclusive $20 off an annual subscription right now. To get it, go to meals.richroll.com, take your quick personalization quiz, and enter promo code RICHROLL20 at checkout.

• 1:23Rich Roll?

  What's going on, everybody? What do you know what's happening? I'm Rich Roll. I am the host of this podcast, the Rich Roll Podcast, that bears my name. Thank you so much for dropping by today. I know you have a lot of choices for your audio entertainment and edification, so it means a lot to me, to everybody who has subscribed to the show. Perhaps you left a review on iTunes. Thank you for that. Whatever the review is, I don't care. Just the fact that you took the time to do it, that means a lot. And of course, for always using the Amazon banner ad at richroll.com for all your Amazon purchases. The holiday season is upon us. You might have to buy a gift or two. That might require you to go onto amazon.com. Well, it would mean a lot to us if you first click through our banner ad at richroll.com.

• 2:06Rich Roll?

  You can find it on all the podcast pages and the main podcast page. Won't cost you anything extra, but it will shake loose a little bit of loose change from the Amazon HQ coffers, and that helps us keep the bandwidth flowing. Everybody wins. So, thank you so much for that. On the subject of holidays, again, it is Thanksgiving weekend right now. I hope you guys are out on a hike, maybe you're walking the dog, maybe you are preparing your plant-based Thanksgiving dinner, whatever it is. It's time to talk about what the holidays mean. What is the import? What is the intention behind this season? What

• 2:46Rich Roll?

  do you want to get out of it? And how can you navigate the pitfalls, the minefield, that this season presents to come out the other side, not just intact, but feeling great? And that's really the subject of what we're going to talk about here today. Perhaps you have to go to an extended family gathering, you're getting pushed and pulled to go to this event or that event, and there's pressure to buy gifts. Like, all of this stuff increases the stress level tremendously. And then when you're in front of Aunt Betty, and she says that thing that she says every year, and pushes that button, and you react, and then it devolves into something you didn't want it to be, what if you could have a different

• 3:28Rich Roll?

  experience? What if, when she pushes that button, you don't react? What if you could have a new experience, a more enriching experience, one that is more fulfilling, not just for yourself, but for those around you, and for your family members? So Julie's going to come in, that's really what we're going to delve into more deeply, to kind of provide you with some tools and some resources to not just protect yourself emotionally, and mentally, and physically, and spiritually, but to really enhance this impending experience so that it is uplifting, rather than burdensome, which all too many people find it to be.

• 4:13Rich Roll?

  So that's really the gist of it. A couple of quick things. I'm home from a whirlwind four-city Two-week speaking engagement tour. It was amazing. I'm going to talk a little bit about that in the podcast as well. But just happy to be home, really happy to be home. I'm a little bit exhausted. And Tyler, who is my son, he's the guy who generally puts the show together. He's the audio engineer wizard. He's really sick today. I feel terrible. He's in bed. He's sleeping right now. I certainly could not ask him to edit this show today, which I'm putting up the same day that we recorded. So I'm doing the editing myself, which is something I haven't done in quite a long time, since the early days of the show. So if it's a little rough around the edges, audio-wise, if the edit isn't just quite as

• 4:58Rich Roll?

  dialed in as it usually is, don't blame Tyler. Blame me. That's on me. But I'm gonna do my best, I promise you. Before we get into it, though.

• 5:13Rich Roll?

  You guys want to talk about the holidays? Let's talk about the holidays.

• 5:25Rich Roll?

  Hey, Julie.

• 5:26Speaker 01

  Hey, Rich Roll.

• 5:27Rich Roll?

  Happy Thanksgiving.

• 5:28Speaker 01

  Happy Thanksgiving to you, honey.

• 5:30Rich Roll?

  How's it going?

• 5:30Speaker 01

  It's going really good. It's nice to see you.

• 5:32Rich Roll?

  We haven't done an AMA in a little while, and I just got back from this crazy whirlwind tour, and we barely even communicated.

• 5:42Speaker 01

  I know. I was really looking forward to today's podcast, so we could check in.

• 5:45Rich Roll?

  The running joke, I mean, it's so played out at this point, because we keep saying it, but yeah, it's like, we need to do a podcast to communicate. But in this case today, it's actually quite true, because I got in really late at night, and then the next day, there was work and kids, and, you know, kids' like Thanksgiving Day event at the school, and you were recording your own podcast. And before we knew it, and then we went out to dinner, but it was with a whole group of people. So you and I haven't had a one-on-one, like, real conversation in person. We talked on the phone earlier today. So this is actually the real, the first real one-on-one conversation we've had since I left town two weeks ago.

• 6:21Speaker 01

  That's right. That's true. Well, in person.

• 6:23Rich Roll?

  In person, right.

• 6:24Speaker 01

  In person.

• 6:24Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 6:25Speaker 01

  That's true.

• 6:25Rich Roll?

  So, yeah, it was a great trip. I've, uh, thank you for asking, Julie. Tell me all about it. Well, I went to four cities. I went to Atlanta first and spoke at the Food Equals Medicine Conference, which was fantastic. There were about, I don't know, 350 some odd people in attendance for that. And there was an amazing lineup of speakers, you know, Dr. Esselstyn and Michael Greger, who I did a podcast with, and, you know, kind of all the candidates, Chef AJ, John Pierre, like all the people that, you know, kind of the leaders of the movement were there. And it was the first year of this event, but it was incredibly well attended. Like, people had laptops out and they were taking notes the whole time, you know, the whole thing. Wow.

• 7:08Rich Roll?

  And Benji Kurtz, who organized it, did a fantastic job because it was the first time that he had done anything like that. But it was really well attended. So that was fantastic. And then I rented a car and drove to Athens, Georgia. I'd never been to Athens before, where University of Georgia is. And of course, home to my favorite band, R E M. Aww. The B-52s are also from there. So yeah, I'm in Athens, which is really groovy place. Like, you know, beautiful college town with these amazing mansions and this really, you know, gorgeous campus. And I'm just like thinking about R E M the whole time. When I was 15, like, the album Murmur, like, changed my life, right? And I'd never

• 7:50Rich Roll?

  been to Athens. And I remember as a kid, like, thinking, like, reading the liner notes of the record and thinking, like, I wonder what it's like in Athens. Like, how can I get to Athens? What is it like there? Like, where does Michael Stipe live? You know, that you do when you're like a young teenager and you discover a new kind of music that really shifts your perspective. And apparently, they own, the band members, including, I think Michael Stipe still has a house there, a couple of the guys, I think Bill Berry and Mike Mills still live there. They've bought up a lot of the old houses to preserve them, you know, for historic purposes. And they have a, they have a vegetarian restaurant there that they own. I don't know if it's all the guys in the band or just a couple of them. Unfortunately, I didn't get to go to that restaurant, though. What?

• 8:35Rich Roll?

  It just didn't work out to happen. The only time I could go was early in the morning before I had to catch my flight because there were other things happening. And it wasn't open that early, blah, blah, blah. But anyway, I got to speak to the University of Georgia swim team. They have this amazing, beautiful natatorium and a really, you know, successful swimming program, especially the women's team. They have like Olympians and I think they have like 20 plus kids who've qualified for Olympic trials. So that was really fun to meet the coaches and be in their like team room. And I didn't know that I was going to be giving a talk. Like, one of the coaches is friends with Jack Roach and I connected with her. He connected me to her. She's like, come down to the pool. I'd love for you to

• 9:15Rich Roll?

  meet the coaches. You know, the guy, the team's gonna swim at 2:30 or whatever. So I was like, cool, I'll drop by. And I thought I was just gonna stand on the deck and say hi to the coaches and, you know, get a, like, a look at the pool and be on my way. But I was ushered, you know, into the pool and then into the team room, which is this beautiful room with all these, lined with trophies all over the wall and like these, you know, plush couches. And the whole team was in there. And they introduced me and they're like, okay, now Rich is gonna like, give a few words. I was like, I didn't realize I was giving a talk. But it ended up being really cool. And then that evening, I spoke to the student body. There was a organization,

• 9:55Rich Roll?

  like, two organizations at the university who kind of co-produced this event to have me come out. And that was really well attended. I don't know, 200 and 200 plus people, I think, showed up for that. And it's great, like, talking at colleges. Like, I've only done a couple colleges. I would love to speak, do more speaking gigs with colleges, because I think that's where you get an audience of young people who are really interested in the subject matter, who care deeply, and they're in the process of forming their habits, you know, their preferences, how they want to navigate the world, like, what their food choice means to them, you know, what, things like sustainability and compassion and all of that, how that's gonna play into the fiber of how they're going to, you know, kind of

• 10:38Rich Roll?

  grow into the world. So that was really fun. And then I went to Elkhart, Indiana, this little town, not far from South Bend, Indiana, in sort of the north.

• 10:50Rich Roll?

  The northwest corner of Indiana, like right on the Michigan border, actually. And that was really fun. It was an event that was put on, kind of hosted by a couple of different people. But one of the main guys who kind of put the whole thing together through the Rotary Club was a man who had been diagnosed with non-Hodgkin's lymphoma. And had been told, of course, by all the doctors, like, you got to get right into radiation and chemotherapy. And he decided that he wasn't going to do that. He had caught the, they had caught the diagnosis quite early on. So it wasn't like stage four or anything like that, but he was going to do kind of what you did with your cyst. And he took it upon himself to,

• 11:32Rich Roll?

  you know, read up. He read all the books. He decided to go completely plant-based and did all this sort of alternative therapy and it's in remission and it hasn't come back. So That's amazing. He had this sort of epiphany moment with solving that equation, you know, of food is medicine. And, and really healed himself, which was really powerful. And so he is inspired to deliver this healthy message to his community, not just through his own story, but through other people's stories. So, so this evening was about like the beginning of that. Like, I think I was the first speaker that, that, that he had brought in for this purpose. And you're in a part of the country that's very much, you know, beef and dairy. There were a lot of older people in the audience and

• 12:19Rich Roll?

  and I was, I was unsure, like, how's this going to go? Are these people going to be receptive to this? But it was amazing. He pulled a giant crowd in this beautiful old theater, the Lerner Theater, in this room called the Crystal Ballroom. And it was, it went really well. It was really cool. And there were all kinds of people that drove in, podcast fans had drove great distances to come to hear me speak, which is always amazing. There was a couple that drove in from Louisville, Kentucky. There were people that drove from Indianapolis, from Chicago, like amazing. It's so great. So, yeah, that just, you know, when somebody comes up to me, oh, I drove this far, like, I just can't even believe that. It's always mind-blowing. Amazing, yeah, and really.

• 13:01Rich Roll?

  So touching and heartwarming. The same thing in Atlanta and at the University of Georgia. There are people that came from all over and lots of people wanted to know where Julie was. Had very nice things to say. When is she going to be back on the podcast?

• 13:16Speaker 01

  Sweet.

• 13:16Rich Roll?

  We love Julie.

• 13:17Speaker 01

  Thanks, you guys. I really wanted to go. I just, I have five kids.

• 13:23Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 13:23Speaker 01

  You guys. So I did. I had an, I had an amazing.

• 13:27Rich Roll?

  Are you counting me in that?

• 13:28Speaker 01

  No, Harrison. Harrison, actually.

• 13:30Rich Roll?

  You can include me in that.

• 13:31Speaker 01

  No, I'm not going to include you in that. The sixth child was on the road. I am not going to include you in that. No, I need you as my soul partner. So, no, Harrison, actually, at his request, he has asked me to refer to him as my son now. Which is quite beautiful. Yeah, it's very, very sweet and I'm very honored.

• 13:52Rich Roll?

  For people that are listening, he's our nephew and he lives with us.

• 13:54Speaker 01

  He has for quite some time. And anyway, he's, he's with us all the time. So, yeah, I just, I needed to be here. I needed to connect with the kids and, and it's been very, very sweet. I still have an eight-year-old. We still have an eight-year-old, Jaya. And she's just extremely sweet and wanting to hold my hand and be with me all the time. And I'm just soaking that up, so.

• 14:18Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's the hardest part of the travel. I love the travel. I love meeting new people and going to new places. Like, if I was a single guy, I could easily just go on the road and do a Joe Cross and just be in a different place. Like, I like it. You know, like, I get, it's, it can be draining, but it also gives me energy.

• 14:35Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 14:35Rich Roll?

  It's so amazing to meet all these people and kind of connect with them in a real way. But it's being away from you and the kids that's the hardest. And the thing that really was difficult on this trip was missing Jaya's play. Like, that just broke my heart. She had a play that she was doing.

• 14:51Speaker 01

  She was. She was.

• 14:52Rich Roll?

  I wanted to be able to be there.

• 14:52Speaker 01

  She sang something from Oliver in a dog suit.

• 14:58Rich Roll?

  You sent me the video. It's pretty epic. Yeah, so, alright, so yeah, so I did the event in Elkhart and then I went from there to Miami for the Seed Food and Wine Festival. And that was like a, you know, super hip event, you know, that was celebrating the plant-based movement in Miami, which is really kind of seeing the growth of this movement in a real way there. And it was cool. It was very, like, everything was very modern. We had like fancy dinners and fancy restaurants, all plant-based. And the event itself took place in Wynwood, which is the Arts District of Miami, where all the buildings are covered in beautiful street art and murals. And, you know, it had a different feel to it than your typical kind of, you know, health

• 15:41Rich Roll?

  conference, which, you know, generally those take place in like a conference room in a hotel. Or a veg fest, which is, you know, in a tent somewhere, you know, in a park somewhere or something like that. Like, this was super hip'd out. Like, it was almost like a very, you know, like, part of art Basel itself. And it was nice to see kind of a modern spin on this movement. And I think that that has its place. And it was cool to see so many people in Miami, which, you know, even five years ago, like, it would have been very difficult to find plant-based cuisine or people interested in these things. But, you know, I think they had 3,000 people pass through there. And they had a 5K run, which I did. And they did this group yoga class outside with like a DJ. There were like 200 people that attended that.

• 16:26Rich Roll?

  And, you know, got to catch up with friends. John Sally was there. Had dinner with Gene Bauer. It was great to see him. Miranda Pleasant from Thrive and Origin, Origin Magazine and Thrive Magazine. Who else was there? John, the badass vegan. You know, like, a lot of the, you know, people in the vegan movement. So, anyway, that was the trip. It was nice to kind of end it on the beach in Miami. And kind of, you know, I had a day after it was over where I could just sort of go for a run and... Jump in the ocean and reset and now I'm home, but I'm happy to be home and that's it for travel for a while.

• 17:01Speaker 01

  Awesome. Yeah, we're glad, we're glad.

• 17:03Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, but it was like, you know, it was, uh, it was, I'm, I'm paying the price because I'm super tired.

• 17:09Speaker 01

  You'll recover soon.

• 17:10Rich Roll?

  It was okay.

• 17:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:12Rich Roll?

  So we have a lot of, um, interesting things we want to get into today. It is tis the holiday season. By the time you're listening to this, it will already be Thanksgiving. Um, but you know, kind of from here forward through the end of December, this is the time of year where we get together with family and extended family.

• 17:30Speaker 01

  And it's full of cheer.

• 17:32Rich Roll?

  It is full, it is very much full of cheer.

• 17:34Speaker 01

  Some people have lied to you and told you.

• 17:36Rich Roll?

  It's full of cheer and minefields, right? And so that's what we're going to talk about, but before that, um, I want to talk about Harry's.

• 17:45Speaker 01

  Let's talk about Harry's.

• 17:46Rich Roll?

  Yeah, so Harry's, you guys know Harry's, right? They've been a long time sponsor of the show. I actually just did a call with the guys at Harry's and they're super psyched, um, with how this kind of, uh, collaboration, this partnership, uh, between Harry's and this podcast has been going. And that's because you guys, the audience have been supporting Harry's, which is great. Keep doing that. Support the sponsors, support the podcast. It's all good. We all win and there's no reason not to support these guys because they're doing a great thing, right? They're disrupting this broken shaving market. Shaving stuff is way too expensive. It's a pain in the butt to get, going to the drugstore. It's all on lockdown, trying to figure out which blades go with which handles and all that kind of junk. Uh, it doesn't make any sense. Why overpay?

• 18:31Rich Roll?

  Um, and that's where, you know, this is basically the problem that these guys, uh, formed this company to solve and they're able to solve it by just cutting out the middlemen. They bought this blade factory in Germany, so they're producing their own high-quality blades and by cutting out the middlemen, they're able to go direct to consumer. You can't buy them in retail stores. It's just all, you know, direct. And that way they can offer, uh, a product that I think is actually better than any of the stuff that you buy in the store, um, at a price significantly cheaper than that you would find. In your typical pharmacy or whatnot. And the cool thing is they just sent me this care package of new stuff. And a lot of this is oriented around the holidays. They're going

• 19:16Rich Roll?

  to be having some promotions and some sales coming up. And so I'm going to talk about that in future episodes. But they wanted me to test out their new stuff. So they sent me, I'm going to unbox it right here. But I got like this cool dob kit and daily face wash, and they sent me a new like handle and blade. So check that out. It's a it's it's metal and has this like heavy weight, but it's copper. Wow. It's got like a copper handle. So very nice. Yeah, very nice. Very gentlemanly and bespoke, I would say. Gorgeous. So yeah, I mean, you just you can't really buy anything like this in the store, and especially at the price point with which they're offering it. It's just, you know,

• 19:57Rich Roll?

  it's a great deal. There's no reason not to, you know, be a customer of these guys. And like I said, I've been using them ever since they became a sponsor on the show. So their starter kit is just 15 bucks. That includes a razor. You get three blades, and you get your choice of their either their shave cream or their foaming shave gel. I've been using the shave gel, but they just sent me. Oh, this is the daily face wash. Oh, but I think I have the yeah, they have the cream here. So I'm going to start using that. And I'll let you know what I think of that. And as an added bonus, you can also get $5 off your first purchase. This is applicable to to new customers with my code roll. So after using my code, you can

• 20:39Rich Roll?

  get an entire month's worth of shaving for just 10 bucks and shipping is always free, which is huge, right? So go to harrys.com now and Harry's will give you $5 off if you type in my code roll with your first purchase. That's H A R R Y S dot com. Enter coupon code roll at checkout for $5 off the starter set and start shaving smarter today, not tomorrow, today. All right, holidays.

• 21:05Speaker 01

  Holidays.

• 21:06Rich Roll?

  How do you want to kick this off?

• 21:07Speaker 01

  Here we are. Well, we are definitely, it's always funny to me how all of a sudden it hits. Jaya was saying to me last week, why do they already have Christmas trees up when it hasn't even, Thanksgiving hasn't hit? And so we had the consumer conversations about how because they're trying to kickstart us to start spending money. So actually, it's been kind of interesting this year. We have been blessed so abundantly by all of the love that all of the listeners have showered on us. We're feeling actually quite full and quite well. And we decided as a, as a family,

• 21:46Speaker 01

  that we are going to have a non-consumer Christmas. To a large part, of course, Santa will bring one present for the little girls. But after Jaya had a freak out, no, I'm kidding.

• 22:01Rich Roll?

  Well, Mathis pulled me aside last night and she wanted to have a private conversation about this. She goes, I don't want to have, she goes, I don't want to have a commercial Christmas. I mean, and I said, you mean a non-commercial Christmas?

• 22:14Speaker 01

  Commercial Christmas, yeah.

• 22:15Rich Roll?

  So there's an adjustment that's happening there. And this is not without precedent, though. You know, so we've done this in the past through, and that was motivated as much by just being

• 22:27Speaker 01

  It was kind of like a forced, it was a forced non-consumerism Christmas.

• 22:31Rich Roll?

  We had a forced, yeah, we were, we just, we honestly could not afford to really, you know, do Christmas the way we'd like. And we had to kind of adjust accordingly around that.

• 22:41Speaker 01

  But it ended up being one of the dearest experiences we've ever had.

• 22:45Rich Roll?

  It was a phenomenal experience. So we are going to experiment with this again.

• 22:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I mean, you know, the, I feel a huge relief because we've sort of agreed that the large part of that pressure is gone. So now we can focus on doing things that are experiences that bring the family together, like making vegan gingerbread cookies, like decorating the tree with popcorn strings, like, you know, just taking it down a notch and

• 23:15Speaker 01

  Simplifying it and then we're planning, there's some songs that are being planned, some performances, some presentations, and we're going to split into teams and you've been gone, so you better get on it.

• 23:28Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I mean, catch me up to speed here.

• 23:29Speaker 01

  Well, I've asked, actually Tyler and Trapper are working on singing some harmonies together. Trapper's the drummer in the family and Tyler's the singer songwriter, one of the three of us who are singer songwriters. But Trapper recently started singing and as genetics provides, he has this beautiful, beautiful vibrato in his voice. And so I'm really excited to hear Tyler and Trapper sing harmony together because they're brothers and there's something very awesome about that. So I think they're working on something for me like that. Mathis has said she wants to be Trapper's teammate. She's picked him. And I don't know, we were kind of, other than that, we're waiting.

• 24:09Rich Roll?

  Yeah, so the idea behind this, though, is that it's not that we're not giving gifts to each other. We're just not going to the mall to get gifts for each other. The gifts are all creative offerings that we come up with through our own inspiration and creativity, making use of what we already have.

• 24:25Speaker 01

  And it's mostly about the experience, about the sharing of experience, you know? It could be, you know, one of my desires is I really want to sit down and write some deep handwritten letters to the ones that I love, you know, and actually take a moment. Because when in my life do I do that at all? You know, it's, everything is so quick and it's texting and Instagram and all that kind of stuff. So I'm just looking forward to just some of, some of those sweet moments and, you know, candlelight ceremony on the solstice and, you know, just an opportunity to deepen our connection with spirit, deepen

• 25:05Speaker 01

  our connection with our authentic hearts and, you know, still experience honoring each other and enjoying each other, but just doing it in maybe ways that will be more experiential and less materialistic.

• 25:20Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm. And how is this being digested by the young children in the family?

• 25:26Speaker 01

  Actually, I think it's pretty good. I mean, I think Mathis has like one thing that she really, really wants. So she's probably, you know, gunning for that and maybe going to present it. But- Um, I, you know, I think they'll be fine in, in the end and it's not that, you know, they have grandparents and they have aunts and uncles. It's not like they're not going to get anything, you know, but it's just this sort of setting the precedent that, you know, it's not, we're, we're just not, we're not going to do that thing that is imposed upon all of us around this time of year.

• 25:57Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's a crazy time of year and I'm not, you know, gonna say anything that everybody doesn't, isn't already, you know, intimately familiar with, but at this time of year, it's almost like, oh, okay, this, the train's pulling out of the station and now we have to do what everyone else is doing because that's what everybody does, you know, and there isn't a moment of kind of reflection upon, you know, why we're doing this, you know, why we're driving this insane consumer train to go to the mall and buy all this stuff because there's, there's a filial obligation to do so, or you're a bad person, or you're, you don't have the holiday spirit. And so this is our way of kind of, you know, putting the brakes on that a little bit and, and, and really contemplating, what is this holiday

• 26:42Rich Roll?

  about? Like, what is the, what is the, the, uh, the, um, you know, the point of it? What is the purpose of it? Like, we're here to celebrate gratitude. We're here to, you know, enjoy the people that we love, right? We're here to give thanks on Thanksgiving. And it's a time to kind of celebrate and demonstrate that love, but we're in a culture in which the way that we demonstrate that love is through, you know, shiny objects. And, you know, maybe there's a better way to do it, a more meaningful way to do it. And believe me, we've gone through our Christmases where there's been, you know, piles of

• 27:18Speaker 01

  Plenty.

• 27:18Rich Roll?

  Plastic stuff everywhere. And, you know, if you're a parent, you know what happens? Like, that stuff gets broken or it gets cast aside shortly thereafter. And there's just this unbelievable amount of waste. And you're on the other side of it and you have this emotional hangover of like, well, what was that all about? You know, and it's fun and it's for the kids. Like, I don't mean to poo poo it. Like, you know, it's a precious time, but. Perhaps there's a way to, you know, find a different approach to really kind of embrace the true meaning of what it's all about in your own way.

• 27:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I feel like even if you are, I mean, listen, people are, you're, everybody's at a different point in their journey. So it's like, this isn't any, you know, preaching any sort of, you know, protocol that anybody has to adhere to. This is just where we are in our lives. And, you know, if you, you know, if you've been blessed and you feel like, you know, you've, you're good, like, you kind of have received enough in the form of material objects, you know?

• 28:14Rich Roll?

  And you want to spread that around and give of that, that's great.

• 28:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, then, then, I mean, what I was saying is that you could then, even, even if you, if you are experiencing a traditional Christmas with, you know, material things or whatever, you could consider just adding a meaningful ceremony into the mix. Like, you know, what if you had a candlelight moment with your family and, you know, shared some songs or poems or experience or just basically shared from your heart, like more than, you know, two words. Like, what if you just took a minute and connected? So, these are the type of things that we like to cultivate. And so, we have most of our family on board to participate in that. And we're gonna, we're gonna help guide the little ones through

• 28:59Speaker 01

  it in, you know, in a good, sustainable, conscious way. And we'll report back and let you know how we did.

• 29:06Rich Roll?

  Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, it's not about getting an A+ on the report card with this, it's an aspiration. You know, it's like, you hold a frequency of what you're aspiring to do, you know? And when you have a lot of people in your family, and we're gonna get into that in a minute, you're not always gonna hit the mark. But I think kind of holding that space of intention is a good place to kind of be driving the train, so to speak. And the other aspect of it is the service aspect of it, right? Like, what are we doing about, like, the giving back part? You know, are we gonna spend, like, Christmas Day helping people? What are we doing?

• 29:44Speaker 01

  You know, I don't know. I don't know yet. We had talked about that. Yeah, exactly. No, I haven't, I haven't nailed it down yet. I mean, there's a, there's a possible opportunity to serve in sort of a soup kitchen type setting with a guru that we meditate with, a Himalayan monk. But I'm not sure exactly how that's, how the timing's gonna lay out with that. So, I needed you to be home to confirm that.

• 30:09Rich Roll?

  Right. So I have to work on my creative offering.

• 30:12Speaker 01

  And we have to figure out what is the form of service and which day are we doing that? And what form is that gonna take exactly?

• 30:20Rich Roll?

  We'll figure it out.

• 30:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:21Rich Roll?

  But it's beautiful. We did it before and I think the kids look back on that fondly. Like, they don't remember the year that they got the thing that they wanted, you know? Because kids move on. But, you know, I remember when Trapper made that video.

• 30:36Speaker 01

  Still online, you can see it.

• 30:38Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's, you know, he's, and he remembers that fondly too. Like, that's probably one of his funnest memories of the holiday season. Like, he made this really funny, hilarious comedy video for the family to enjoy.

• 30:50Speaker 01

  I was his teammate.

• 30:51Rich Roll?

  I know, right? And so, yeah, there's something beautiful of applying your creativity and pouring your heart into something as an offering to, you know, either one person in your family or the entire family.

• 31:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, and if you're not consumed with having to buy, you know, 5,000 presents for, you know, all these different people and extended relatives and whatever you're doing, and you're not caught up in all of that, then you actually have time to actually be at home and cook some special dishes or some traditional dishes or make a gingerbread house with your kids or possibly do the gingerbread man or hand-make your ornaments out of recycled paper or, you know, do something sort of interesting and fun and crafty.

• 31:29Rich Roll?

  How do you exempt yourself from the kind of social fabric of extended family gift-giving? You know, it's like when you're getting packages in the mail from, you know, your aunts and your uncles and your cousins and all of that, there's a built-in expectation of reciprocity.

• 31:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, I just think it's communication and I think it's taking responsibility for what kind of experience you want to engage in. And, you know, there is gonna have to be that dialogue. But the thing is, is it's just, I mean, do, you know, does anybody need like another sweater that really doesn't fit them that well? Or like some socks or, like, what are the things? It's like the thing comes and it's not even really the thing that you need and it's wasted. So isn't there a way to make an agreement and say, "This year, could you please just send me a card?" Or, "Can you please, you know, could..." We exchange in a different way, or can we only give her, I like the, the, uh, the quality of only giving gifts that can be consumed.

• 32:28Speaker 01

  So, or that are completely trash free. So a song, uh, or, uh, or, you know, a dish or food that you can eat, or a candle that can be burned, or chocolate that can be eat, you know, like that. So, you know, I don't know. I think it's a conversation and I think that, um, uh, all of us by the consumerism train as it takes off. I mean, there's some statistic that, you know, some families spend so much at Christmas that they spend the entire year paying off whatever they bought around Christmas time.

• 33:02Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's completely insane.

• 33:03Speaker 01

  And that's just insanity. Like, why do you want to be stressed like that? Why do you want to feel that pressure? You can show your love in different ways and in really more meaningful ways, the, the simple things that take the time to put together. Um, and, you know, I bet if you, you know, set your intention and wrote somebody, you know, a love letter, not, not just your lover, but anybody a love letter and really took a moment and acknowledged them, that would mean more to them than sending them a scarf. Or then, and I'm, you know, I'm the worst too. Like, I'm the worst at like, you know, I, I, I never get it sent in time and then I send it direct from Amazon and then it does, they don't wrap it. Like, it's just, it, I, it just, it, it doesn't go with my personality.

• 33:46Speaker 01

  I've never been good at doing that. And, um, it just, it, it's more meaningful for me to connect in a deeper way.

• 33:54Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I want to disabuse the idea that despite the fact that you're an incredibly talented chef in the kitchen, you're not exactly Martha Stewart when it comes to like, thank you notes and stuff like, I don't either.

• 34:07Speaker 01

  No, I will never, like, if anybody knows me, I, I, I had to tell my good friends, don't ever expect a thank you note from me, ever. Like, when I receive whatever, I will look you in the eye and I will say thank you and it will be meaningful and that will be the end of it. Because I will never, I used to try and it was hilarious because I would buy the cards and then. They would just live with me and four years later, they would still be in my purse or something.

• 34:32Rich Roll?

  Torturing.

• 34:33Speaker 01

  I just can't, I just, it's just not in my makeup. I just don't do that.

• 34:36Rich Roll?

  I've been trying to shift that pattern in myself. Like I got some nice stationery and it's sitting on my desk and I'm like committed to like just writing, they don't have to be super long letters, but just nice little handwritten cards to people that I've met that have, you know, touched me or whatever, when it's appropriate.

• 34:53Speaker 01

  How's that going for you?

• 34:54Rich Roll?

  It, I have yet to kick it off, but now I'm like, okay, now I can commit.

• 34:58Speaker 01

  You haven't written me a note. I haven't seen anything, you guys. Not one stroke of the pen, nothing.

• 35:05Rich Roll?

  But now if I do it, it'll be like, oh yeah, you only did it.

• 35:07Speaker 01

  No, no, no. That'd be great. It'd be good, but I think the, anyway, so there's an opportunity. There's always an opportunity. We don't just have to go with the flow. We don't have to do what everybody else is doing. You can make your own way. You can be creative and you can create something that maybe will be unique to your own family, a unique family tradition that is sort of off the beaten path.

• 35:33Rich Roll?

  It will require some communication, especially like if you're listening to this, you're like, I want to do that. That sounds cool. Then you have to have the family meeting. And if there's a precedent of doing it otherwise, like kind of untying that knot might be delicate.

• 35:46Speaker 01

  That's the same way with changing your diet or changing your lifestyle.

• 35:49Rich Roll?

  But I think it's, it's a worthy conversation to have and at least to think about and contemplate. And it's been great in our family. So that's all.

• 35:58Speaker 01

  It's going to be cool, I think.

• 35:59Rich Roll?

  All right. So moving on from there, it's a natural segue into navigating the tricky social waters of the holiday season. And it's that time of year when you're around family, extended family, aunts and uncles, maybe people you haven't seen in a long time, maybe people. You have a checkered history with or that kind of emotional minefield that you're stepping into. There's a lot of parties and social engagements that just kicks into high gear. And, you know, this is a time of year that for a lot of people is very difficult. It's, you know, it's difficult for me. I know it's difficult for you. And, and, and I want to

• 36:39Rich Roll?

  talk a little bit about coming up with some strategies for how to go through this process, this time of year, which would should be beautiful and celebratory and all of those things, without coming out the other end like, you know, scarred and feeling lonely and depressed, or on the other side of, you know, perhaps a family explosion or some kind of dispute, you know, these kinds of things are known for cropping up around this time of year, right?

• 37:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I think the explosions in the family, yes, I'm getting, of course, everybody, I think that all of us are mostly triggered, you know, at very, very, very intense levels by our own birth family. And this is, you know, this is across the board.

• 37:28Rich Roll?

  They install the buttons. They know how to push the buttons because they installed them.

• 37:31Speaker 01

  Well, I don't know about that. We'll see.

• 37:33Rich Roll?

  That's like a refrain in recovery.

• 37:35Speaker 01

  I don't know if they installed them, but somebody installed them, but it was definitely a perfect divine design, you know, that you were brought into this family to experience your life. And so they always, you know, they say that it's, it's, it's easy to be enlightened in a, in a cave, but just try to go home and spend the holidays with your family and see how you fare, you know?

• 37:55Rich Roll?

  Yeah, how your enlightenment quotient.

• 37:58Speaker 01

  That's like the true test. Works out for you. So it's kind of a funny thing. And I mean, the, the, the overlying thing that I always like to acknowledge, and that's very, very true for me, is that, you know, this time of year is in fact, the, the end of the year. It is the dying of the planet, is the closing of energy. Like, you know, it goes into a, a point that is the darkest, you know, day of the year. And so just in a harmonious nature aspect, it's not actually not a time of year to be out partying and singing and dancing. Like that's, it's counterintuitive to what's going on in nature. And that has always been the biggest violence that I experienced this time of year is because this time of

• 38:42Speaker 01

  year feels to me like I want to protect myself and wrap myself up in a cozy blanket and Kind of stay in and quiet and, you know, and have boundaries, have really good boundaries. And instead, I'm, I'm forced to go into, you know, parties and situations with, you know, maybe, maybe my most, um, my most intense relationships that exist in a human life.

• 39:09Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 39:10Speaker 01

  Like, there couldn't, there probably couldn't be more, like, you know, if you're gonna be seeing your family during the time. So, um, I think that's good to first recognize that. What do you, what do you think about that? Do you experience that? Like, how is this time of year energetically feel to you?

• 39:25Rich Roll?

  Yeah, well, I mean, I would echo that. I mean, first of all, like, I'm, I'm, I'm somebody who, I feel like I could, you know, especially after just being in Miami, I'm like, I just wanna live where it's warm and sunny and, and there's a lot of sunshine and light out all the time. Like, I don't fare well when it gets dark out super early or it's overcast and gray and, you know, precipitating, like, that profoundly and negatively affects my emotional well-being. And I'm becoming more and more sensitive to it as I get older. Um, and it's at that point where it's like, why? You know, like, I just wanna be outside in the sunshine where it's warm. So, yeah, I'm very sensitive to that. And at this time of year, I don't, you know, like, I've become very antisocial, like, I

• 40:08Rich Roll?

  don't really wanna do anything that requires me to go out into the world too much. And yet, you're being pulled. So it's, so the first thing is, it's almost like, at least in my case, you're being pulled out against your will, out of obligation, like, cause you have to show up. And if you don't, it's worse than not going and all of that, right? So, so, yeah, it's tricky. And of course, it's, you know, the, the, it's, there's minefields all over the place for how you can get, you know, triggered into behaviors that you're not proud of. So, in terms of the first step, you know, I think it's important to acknowledge... That it is a loaded situation and not be like if you have a history of stuff kind of occurring, you know, that you would prefer not to occur around this time of year.

• 40:53Rich Roll?

  The first step is acknowledging that it's real, you know, not saying, oh, it'll be fine this year or whatever. Yeah, it's it's cool. Everything's cool. And just blindly kind of walking into these situations where you're not like really in the moment and present enough to be focused on the, you know, potential severity of what can occur emotionally. Right? So acknowledgement, right? Like so being aware. And then from there, it's about

• 41:22Rich Roll?

  creating healthy boundaries, you know, just because you're invited to this or that. You don't have to go and you're not a bad person if you don't go. Like sometimes self-care requires you to exempt yourself from a situation. Like if it if you really feel like your emotional well-being will be impaired or threatened by going to some social scenario that's loaded for you. I think it's okay to like not go, you know, it's all in how you handle the the opting out, right? Like you have it requires, you know, maybe some advanced communication skills to be able to convey why you're not going in a gracious way that doesn't create its own drama.

• 42:04Rich Roll?

  But I think, you know, I think I found myself in this situation before too. It's like, you know, I know that I'm supposed to go every other year I did go. But this is what happens. This is what happens to me. This is what happens to them. And I'm not, I'm just not going to do it this year, not out of anger or resentment. I think it's important what your motivations are behind it, what your intention is, but just to say, I need to take care of myself this year and this year like I'm going to, you know, sort of act on that and not get pulled into all these directions and play defense, but to actually be more in control of how I'm expending my energy.

• 42:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, very true. And I feel that also authentic to living your authentic heart and in alignment with living, you know, your authentic purpose and what you came here to experience, a really powerful, powerful practice is to separate the shoulds from the wants and really take a like a clear look at that. And really, in this space of of, of, of living this type of lifestyle, the should should be eliminated. So you should be, you should, you, you would benefit from really experiencing things from a level of, of really doing the things that you want to do

• 43:25Speaker 01

  and being very, very clear about that. Because I feel like when we do things that we should do, it's for the wrong reason. It has the wrong intention and it's laced with just qualities and energies that are not in your best interest and therefore not in the best interest of everyone else around you.

• 43:52Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I think what confuses this mental calculus and decision-making process is a misunderstanding of selfishness, right? Because somebody will say, well, I should go to this because, you know, this is my family and, or, or this is like whatever, you know? So it would be selfish to not go. And I'm not a selfish person, so I'm going to go. But sometimes selfishness is actually the most compassionate thing you can do. To exercise, you know, self-care can be characterized as selfish, which has sort of a negative, pejorative connotation to it, but is actually a healthy thing for you to do. And it might be the best thing for everybody involved, right? And that's a case-by-case thing.

• 44:36Rich Roll?

  And only you, you know, in your heart of hearts, hearts knows where that balance lies, like where the fulcrum, fulcrum point is on that. But just because you're not going to go to a party or a certain event that you've been invited to, or there's an expectation that you're going to attend, does not make you selfish or a bad person.

• 44:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I think, I mean, I love to use the word, one of my favorite words for that is self-full. So, again, in spiritual practice and when we're seeking and we're, you know, we're studying and we're wanting to connect with something that's more expanded and more compassionate outside of our human form, a lot of times, I believe, in the early stages, we feel that being spiritual means that, means we should sacrifice ourselves, or or do things we don't want to do, or do things that don't feel good to us, because we feel that if we were a spiritual, quote, person, we would be able to engage in that kind of activity. But the problem is, is that if you're not really there and it's not really an authentic expression,

• 45:41Speaker 01

  it doesn't fruit that compassion. It fruits issues and problems, because it's not pure, it's not in alignment, it's not harmonious.

• 45:50Rich Roll?

  Yeah, an analogy would be, you know, if you're, look, if you're, like, you're a newly sober person right out of rehab, like, you probably shouldn't go to a bar. You know, like, why would you, you know, why would you put yourself in that situation? "Oh, well, I was invited and it was my friends and my family and I felt like I should go, there was an expectation for me to be there," or whatever. But that's not self-care. Like, that's putting you in harm's way, and that's in nobody's interest, right? Now, maybe years down the line, when you've done a lot of work in sobriety, et cetera, you can walk into that venue and you're not triggered, and it's not a problem, because you've done the adequate amount of work to be able to handle that.

• 46:32Rich Roll?

  So similarly, that can be, you know, it's a similar situation with the holiday season and these parties. Like, if you're not, if you don't feel like you've done enough work around these issues that trigger you, then it's probably not in your best interest or anybody else's best interest to insert yourself into that. Equation that's potentially explosive. Now, when you've done enough work and kind of resolved some of these issues, or come to terms with them, or made peace with yourself and these other people, yeah, then you can go and you create a healthy boundary around yourself. And you can navigate that with grace and love and all the rest. So it's kind of where you're at with these people in your life, with your own emotional, you know, well-being, et cetera.

• 47:16Speaker 01

  Yes, true. And what about those times of life where we get pulled into situations? Or we, we, we can't find a way to avoid it? And we step into an interaction with somebody where we are triggered beyond. Like, it's that trigger that just consumes you. And, you know, it's completely, um, uh, uh, just sort of taken over your entire being.

• 47:43Rich Roll?

  Right, so, so the first part of like this conversation has been about, you know, whether or not to go. So let's now, the next step is, okay, you are gonna go to one of these events, or family occasions, or whatever it is, social, a social thing around the holidays.

• 47:59Speaker 01

  Right, or let's, it could even be like a conversation, or you could even just not be in their presence. You know, it could have been a phone conversation, or a letter, or anything. But you're, you're in this situation where you've, you've stepped on the landmine has...

• 48:12Rich Roll?

  Well, even before the landmine, what, let's just talk about, like, let's say you're consciously making a decision to enter into one of these places. Like, what can you do to, like, uh, take out an insurance policy for the best possible outcome?

• 48:26Speaker 01

  Well, the first thing that I would do is I would, um, sit down in a quiet place and I would connect with my breath. And I would take a moment and set an intention, a kind of prayer, if you will, where I would, um, open a, a space of communication with the highest self of the other person. And I would, um, ask for the highest divine exchange between me and the person of the trigger. Um, and that may mean, uh, Actually removing any connections between the two of us. Because if it's not, if it's not in a space of resolution, that might, it might not be

• 49:10Speaker 01

  appropriate at that time. But it would be actually not just walking in completely open with no regard when you know this energy is sitting there. You want to walk into the situation by first connecting, imagining yourself, like, just a very simple visualization would be, imagine yourself surrounded by a bubble of light. And actually, you know, visualize your boundaries so when you go in, you're in a better emotional state and energetic state to interact in a neutral, loving, compassionate exchange with this energy.

• 49:54Rich Roll?

  Right, so the more meditation that you're doing and the more visualization you're doing, the more kind of preparation around these things that you can do internally, the better position you're going to be in to be able to kind of feel what comes at you. So what Julie's really talking about is like sealing your energy field, right? When you imagine this bubble around yourself, it's really like a three-dimensional, like, you know, force field, where you can kind of visualize, okay, I don't need to let this energy in, right? Because when you, when you're in a social situation, when you're in the world, you can't control what is going on around you. You can't control what people are going to say to you or what they're going to do.

• 50:36Rich Roll?

  The only thing that you have domain over is how you are going to react to those things, right? You have a choice. When we go into these loaded scenarios, that period of time between, you know, the stimuli coming at you and your reaction gets shrunk, right? Because you get triggered by, by these deep emotional sort of cords that you've had your whole life, where somebody says something to you and it activates you, and there's no thought involved, you just react, right? So the visualization and the mindfulness practices and kind of really contemplating that field that you're, that you're You know, protecting yourself with is about expanding that window of time so that

• 51:16Rich Roll?

  you can have that moment of reflection enough to recognize what's coming at you and to make the decision to not do what you always do, to take the contrary action and either not react or react in a different way than you traditionally react, which, you know, takes you down that road that you've been down too many times already in your life.

• 51:37Speaker 01

  And so after you've done that, and let's say that you get triggered, the trigger is there. So even if you've sealed yourself, you've gone into the situation or you've had the interaction and there is that familiar trigger, there it is again, you could predict it, you knew it was coming, you've seen it over and over and over in your lifetime, and suddenly you're in this, in this spot with a person and you are completely annoyed and

• 52:08Rich Roll?

  Yeah, Aunt Betty's gonna say, so when are you getting a real job? Or, you know, whatever it is.

• 52:13Speaker 01

  When are you getting married? Or when are you gonna have kids? Or, you know, whatever it is. And at that point, you know, most of us, what we do is we look for someone to validate our pain. So we're gonna call somebody that we love or who we feel safe with, and we're gonna tell them how annoying Aunt Betty is, and we're gonna recount the entire situation, you know, detail by detail, and we're gonna, we're really gonna present our experience so that the person that we're speaking to is just like, oh my God, like, I'm so with you, that is so annoying. Like, she is so annoying and so unevolved and you are totally right. And, you know, I don't even know how you can be in that family. And

• 52:56Speaker 01

  then suddenly, like, your, your pain body feels kinda good, it's feeling better because it was heard and it was able to vent and able to sort of, you know, do something with this pain that you're sitting with. And that's great. I mean, we, we all need that as human beings. We all need a shoulder to cry on or, or a good friend to just vent. Like, sometimes you're just like, I just need to vent. Like, I just need to say this and just get it out there. And that's fine. But what I would like to sort of explore today a little bit for a few minutes on the podcast is, is, is taking a little, a little wider view. So That's okay, so you've vented, but now let's take a little expanded perspective.

• 53:37Speaker 01

  So if you pull out of that situation and take more of a bird's eye view, and you can take a perspective that you are responsible for your life. So we all incarnate in soul groups. We make an agreement outside of the body before we come in to experience a certain set of circumstances that are all self-created or self-designed for our own evolution, for our own transformation. And where we get caught, if we never move out of the blame and take responsibility for our own life, we can't transform out of that, and that pattern cannot heal.

• 54:20Speaker 01

  And so it's a wonderful opportunity when you have these triggers in your life, especially the ones that are very, very, very intense, because these individuals, as annoying as they are, and as much as you think that you just can't even believe that they're in your life, at some point, they are in fact some of your greatest teachers. Because within that experience, there is this opportunity of deep, deep transformation. And by taking responsibility for your life, instead of being a victim, you already shift the opportunity in that. And so there is quite an opportunity to then

• 55:07Speaker 01

  take a practice, take the time to go into the pain, go into the discomfort, sit in meditation and become an observer of what's going on in your body, and really turn the magnifying glass back on yourself and ask, "What is this teaching me? What is it within me that's getting triggered? Like, how is this happening? Like, I don't even care about Aunt Betty. Like, exactly what is happening?" And if you can become an explorer and you can become really curious, you can start to identify things within yourself that need to be released and transformed. And by experiencing that and choosing that as your experience,

• 55:50Speaker 01

  there is great healing available to you, to the other person, to the exchange within you, and then ultimately to humanity at large because it affects everything when you heal and release these things.

• 56:05Rich Roll?

  Right, so in a real practical sense, to like use the analogy of Aunt Betty. So you're at the party, Aunt Betty says, you know, "When are you gonna get married again?" You know, like she says it every year. And you told yourself you weren't gonna get activated because you knew she was gonna ask you, and she asks you, and you, you know, you react again, like just because you're on autopilot. So all your best intentions are thrown out the window, and here you are having the same argument that you've had every year. And you go home, and you feel lousy about yourself because you feel like, "Why did I do that again?" So you're beating yourself up, but you're also harboring this resentment against Aunt Betty because "Why can't she see me the way that I wanna see?" And so when you're talking about that process of unpacking that

• 56:50Rich Roll?

  and taking that microscope or that magnifying glass and turning it on yourself, the questions that you're gonna be asking are, "Well, why is it that it's so upsetting to me that Aunt Betty wants to know when I'm gonna get married? Is it because she doesn't see me as a valid person without that? So she's not like recognizing me as having value outside of a relationship? Is it that I'm afraid maybe I won't get married and that's what I desperately want? Like what is behind that? It could be any number of things, but I think you have to answer that question first, and then try to understand, "Well, why is that loaded for me? Why is that, you know, why is that such a boiling point for me?" And the digger, you know, the deeper you dig, the more you're going to discover about yourself, and that can be uncomfortable.

• 57:34Rich Roll?

  But that's the process that ultimately is going to free you. So the following year, you can go in and Aunt Betty can say whatever she wants to say, and it doesn't hold any power over you anymore. So it's a process of taking your power back and not giving your power away to all of these.

• 57:53Rich Roll?

  People and so you'll hear like self help gurus are always like, don't give people your power. You know, hold that power yourself and that's great and that's, that's true. But how do you do that? You know, especially when it's so deeply ingrained that you're just activated. Right? So there is no, you know, there is no miracle pill just saying, well, I'm not going to give my power away to anyone. But, but, but you just do it anyway. Right? So the only way to reverse that equation. Again, it always, it's always the same answer. It's like, go within, go within.

• 58:24Speaker 01

  Well, and I mean, you know, you can't, no one can make you feel anyway. Okay? So if somebody's triggering you, there's something inside of you that is being triggered. It's within you.

• 58:33Rich Roll?

  You have to take responsibility for that rather than blaming the other person.

• 58:37Speaker 01

  Right. And it can be very, very, it can be very, very, very confusing. You know, because, you know, the ego is like, but, but you know, she does always say that to me. She does always ask me that. And you know, why can't I be enough when I'm single? Or why do I have to be a baby or have a baby in order to be valid? So it is kind of confusing, but it's only confusing because your ego has tricked you into thinking that that's who you are. That this personality, you know, setup is who you are. And when you start to expand your view just a little bit and understand that life is greater. We are spiritual beings having a human experience. And so, you know, I'm old enough now to know I've seen the soul groups incarnate.

• 59:21Speaker 01

  I've seen the one degree of separation between certain people coming around. I've had my intense triggers in my life, both my spiritual teachers and family members. And one, and I've seen over time, and, and some of those were so painful to me. So I'm not making light of the task at hand. This is a very, very difficult practice. It's not easy. But, um, you know, I, I think at the beginning, you have to have boundaries because you have to feel safe. And then after that, you can start to explore, how can I take responsibility for my life? And for the circumstances in my life. And you know, we all are living exactly the life that we have created for ourself.

• 1:00:05Speaker 01

  It's informed by past karma, past lifetimes, our deeds, our merits, our, you know, our mistakes. Uh, so it's not an accident that you're sitting where you're sitting right now. It is, you know, it's actually a science. It is, it is universal law from where you're sitting right now.

• 1:00:22Rich Roll?

  Direct result of every action you've ever taken.

• 1:00:25Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. So, but one really interesting thing, uh, really amazing perspective. I've had this amazing blessing in that I am now writing my own memoir and, uh, and I've been writing for years. I, I wrote, you know, for the last two years and now I've thrown all that out. And now I'm writing sort of from another perspective, but I've been really deeply going into my life and really exploring, uh, a lot of events and experience and issues and relationships. And some of them, as we all do, I had sort of, uh, put, taken out and put in a corner somewhere or put someplace and hadn't really gone into them that deeply. Maybe because I had something I, I didn't want to look at or, uh, something that I didn't think

• 1:01:09Speaker 01

  that was, um, would be, uh, helpful for my children to know about me. Um, or, uh, some experience that, uh, you know, I, I had sort of, um, what I want to say, like marginalized or, uh, or sort of summed up in a, in a way that I could, I could hold it. And so now that I've unpacked my entire life, which is, uh, a full life, you know, definitely being, you know, married three times and having, you know, five kids and, you know, doing, being, having all the professions that I've had in my life, being the wife of Ultraman, uh, sitting in front of me. Um, uh, one of the amazing things that I have learned is that

• 1:01:53Speaker 01

  the, a lot of the people that I had the most intense experiences with have in fact been the most significant people in my life. And I see the threads repeated, like not just one time, but maybe three times. Or maybe this person that was so difficult held this energy that I had to unpack and I had to unravel and I'm seeing them. Behind the personality in their divine essence. And I'm realizing the profound nature of it. And so, I just want to share from my perspective. I am very connected to yogi lineage.

• 1:02:32Speaker 01

  And I happen to find a great roadmap in the science of Vedic astrology. It's different than Western astrology. And it's a very specific sort of predisposition of your life that is so specific that it shows your marriages. It shows your children. It shows many, many, many things in your chart. And recently, I had a reading with this legend named Chakrapani. And he's in his 80s now. And he is, you know, one of the great Vedic astrologers, happens to live in LA. And I went to him and had a session. And it was really, really beautiful.

• 1:03:15Speaker 01

  But what he shared with me, and it's funny because I've written in my memoir that I did not really have a happy childhood. If you listen to podcasts that, you know, I've been on, guested on, a lot of times I speak to that. And I say, "Yeah, I just, I really didn't have a happy childhood. You know, my family was nice enough. It's not that I wasn't fed or taken care of. But I was literally waiting to leave them." Like, I just feel like I spent, you know, all that time looking at the clock. Like, "When can I leave?" And the other aspect that I had is that I have not had a very close relationship with my father in this lifetime. Again, he was always there, always provided. My parents are still married. But I just did not have a closeness with my father.

• 1:03:58Speaker 01

  And it has been a source of great pain for me. And one that I have worked very hard to overcome and to reconcile. But it was very, very interesting what Chakrapani told me during my reading. And many things he told me, but one specific thing that he told me was, he looked at my planets and he said, "So, you did not have a possibility in your chart for a happy childhood. It's just not here. It's simply not in the planets." And he said, "It was okay, but just not that good." And I laughed and I said, "Yes, that's true." And he said, "I know, because I'm looking at your chart." Then he told me that my chart, this lifetime,

• 1:04:42Speaker 01

  there was no opportunity for a close relationship with my father. It simply was not there in the, in this predisposition of my planets when I came into a birth. And so we laughed together and he said, you know, so many people go to years of therapy to figure out why they didn't have a close relationship with their father. And there's all this blame and personal trauma and all this, you know, all this pain over it. And when you see something like this tool and you can look at it and it's just, it's just a fact. So it wasn't that my dad was a bad dad. It was that at my level, when whoever it was that designed my life,

• 1:05:24Speaker 01

  when I came into my life, my life was designed in that order. And what I'm learning from writing my memoir is that that key relationship, the fact that I didn't have a good relationship with my father, informed my life work later on. And so it was always meant to be that way. And as a result, I have healed with my father.

• 1:05:53Speaker 01

  Wonderfully, he's still alive. He's 92 years old. He played harmonica on one of my tracks on my record. And just before we went and traveled to Europe, he called me because he didn't think he was going to be alive when I got back. And he said, "I want to tell you that I love you and that you were a great daughter." And, you know, we cried together. And I had waited my whole life for my father to say that to me. And, you know, I told him, I said, "Dad," I said, "even though you and I didn't, didn't really feel aligned to the same things." You know, I'm a yogi, he's a hunter, you know. And, and we couldn't have been more polar opposite.

• 1:06:38Speaker 01

  And many things that, that I did were very, very upsetting to him. And I said, "Dad," I said, "even though we didn't, we didn't have the same perspective on life." I said, "Everything is created from a divine perspective and you were the perfect dad for me. And I love you and I honor you and thank you." And I said, "You and I are going to meet on the other side and we're going to have a big laugh about this." And And I said, "You're gonna see that I'm right. There's no death." And he laughed and he said, "I hope you're right." But anyway, so it's a perspective. And when you look at it like that, and when you can start to pull away

• 1:07:19Speaker 01

  out of these little, small perspectives of human, you know, of humanness, human personality, there's many more areas that we can glean a more expanded take.

• 1:07:42Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I mean, one of the things that I take from that beautiful story, thank you, is, you know, this pressure that we put on ourselves to, you know, make sure that the relationships in our family and extended family are intact and functional and healthy, right? And for many people, they're not, you know, like there's something dysfunctional about it, or there's a distance, or there's something that's preventing, you know, siblings from being closer, or, you know, whatever it is, your relationship with your dad. And, and one of the things that I see in recovery a lot is people struggling with this and then getting to a place of saying, of coming to a place of, of, of understanding, like, "I'm in a family with this person,

• 1:08:27Rich Roll?

  but that doesn't mean that it's mandatory that I be in a relationship with them if it's unhealthy, if it's unhealthy for me and not productive for them, right? I can make that choice. It's not a mandate that I have a close relationship with everyone in my family. And for some people, in some instances, and not for everybody, of course,

• 1:08:52Rich Roll?

  it's okay to make peace with that. Like, you can't force it to be something that it's not or it's never going to be. And to relieve yourself of that pressure, because I think it's a burden that a lot of people carry with them and then use to flog themselves, like, "Why can't I make this work? What's wrong with me?" Or blaming the other person, "Why can't they see me the other way?" And I think in certain situations, it's okay to just be like, "It is what it is." And to just, you know, be in a place of acceptance of that relationship never kind of getting on the footing that you would like it to be on.

• 1:09:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, and you know, in this life, in this realm that we live in, there are many, many aspects of light and also of dark. And it's all sort of designed for our evolution and for our learning and our expansion. And to recognize that you have loaded issues with somebody, or intensity, or negative gnarly energy, just to be really blunt about it, doesn't mean that you can't honor that energy. You can't recognize it as something divine. You know, just be... Something divine doesn't mean it's always smells of roses. You know, it's all here. It's the entire life. It's a full life. That is what living is.

• 1:10:13Speaker 01

  It's embracing all of it, the light and the dark, and finding a way to integrate it and to gain the awareness to actually move in to a place of observation beyond the dark and the light and the highs and the lows. So, again, just because you have a loaded relationship with somebody or something intense has happened, doesn't take away the divine nature of their presence in your life. Because often, the difficult aspects are the things that teach us more, transform us more. And I haven't even fully unraveled the sacred role that my father and my relationship has played in my life,

• 1:10:57Speaker 01

  because I'm getting to new and new and new levels of it. But just, you know, just in the past month, I've gained a more expanded awareness and it's increased my love and my compassion for him and my honor for him. And I know that in the spirit realm, we will meet. Because for him to have been my father, there had to be a love there. There had to be an agreement for something quite profound between us two. And so, you know, I find great freedom in that perspective. And... You know, I could sit here and tell you how right you are that Aunt Betty is, you know,

• 1:11:40Speaker 01

  a jerk and that she's, you know, she's completely annoying, but that's not going to help you lift out of that experience. And so while, while what I'm sharing may seem, you know, maybe foreign to somebody, or may seem, you know, a little out of your comfort zone, you know, I offer this perspective because this kind of perspective is what will lift us out of, of this sort of hamster wheel and allow us to break into more expanded states of being.

• 1:12:13Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I mean, I think it would just add one kind of additional thought to that, which is,

• 1:12:21Rich Roll?

  you know, the idea that, that these loaded relationships or these triggers that, you know, we tend to experience with increased frequency over the holiday period are all opportunities, right? They're opportunities for growth. And that doesn't mean that you have to embrace all of them. Sometimes it's appropriate to avoid them, like we talked about with self-care. And in other instances, it's appropriate to engage them and try to, you know, reverse the script and navigate it in a new and healthier way. And to, you know, kind of leverage each one of these exchanges or occurrences as an opportunity to really learn something about yourself. And, you know, from a recovery perspective, usually,

• 1:13:03Rich Roll?

  you know, these relationships are loaded with all kinds of resentments, right? And resentments are really toxic and poisonous to the soul, to the individual who harbors them. And they are particularly toxic for somebody who suffers from the disease of alcoholism. They're what take you out. They are, you know, really the gasoline on the flame that is, you know, the death knell for the alcoholic. You know, it's, recovery is all about like freeing yourself of these resentments, right? So if you're harboring these resentments, it's an opportunity to heal yourself and free yourself from, you know, the chains, the prison that these frustrations and resentments cause in your own life.

• 1:13:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, and a beautiful practice is When you're faced with this, what if you made an intention for the first thing that you say is thank you? What about when Aunt Betty says, "When are you getting married?" That you say, "Thank you Aunt Betty for saying that." And then...

• 1:14:08Rich Roll?

  Or for a week before you're gonna see Aunt Betty, pray for her every night. And just like put all of your intention on good for Aunt Betty. And just be wishing her well and trying to cultivate like a different perspective of who she is.

• 1:14:25Speaker 01

  I see a little bit of, I don't know, I see a little bit of a problem with that. Because if you're not, if you're not in a clear place to really wish Aunt Betty well, you'll step in some complications with that, so...

• 1:14:39Rich Roll?

  But sometimes acting as if is what can be the first step to getting to that place.

• 1:14:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:48Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 1:14:50Speaker 01

  It wouldn't be my choice, wouldn't be my advice. My advice would be to keep your boundary intact, keep yourself safe. And then when the behavior comes up, understand that it's there for your transformation. And receive it as such. Say, "Thank you." Don't personalize it and don't, don't give her a lot of power. And also, don't put yourself in a position where you're, where you're offering your energy to heal her of something. Because that just can get a little sticky. I wouldn't say that.

• 1:15:25Rich Roll?

  Okay.

• 1:15:26Speaker 01

  But you could try it.

• 1:15:27Rich Roll?

  All right.

• 1:15:30Rich Roll?

  I think that the distinction would be, or just to kind of the caveat to that would be, if you are gonna engage in that practice that I just mentioned, it can't be coming from a place of a desire for that person to be different. You know, it has to be still coming from a place of accepting them how they are and wishing them well. But not doing it like, "I wish Aunt Betty well, you know, if she would just not ask me that again," or be different than she usually is. Yeah, alright, well, let's wrap it up, but I want to kind of close it down with maybe, you know, a couple of things, two or three things that people can think about

• 1:16:11Rich Roll?

  or do when they're preparing to kind of enter the holiday season, or a party, or something like that. Like, when they're getting ready to walk into one of these places that we've been talking about, what are some really, you know, sort of simple but powerful tools that they can use that you think, in your experience, would be helpful?

• 1:16:29Speaker 01

  Well, first of all, I would say, make sure that you have your nutrition handled. So, I would say, first thing is, have a green drink before you're going to go. The second thing that I would say is-

• 1:16:42Rich Roll?

  Not a martini?

• 1:16:43Speaker 01

  No, not a martini. But, you know, I know some people like that, but that's just not in our program, is it? And the second thing that I would suggest is that, you know, you really practice your self-care. So, you need to get yourself to yoga, you need to go on that bike ride, you need to, you know, you need to do whatever you need to do to make sure that you've done your housekeeping. So, so, green drink, good nutrition, fuel, and, and of course, moving your body, because all of this trauma actually gets caught up in your physical body. So, as you can move your, your body, you can help to clear some of the trauma. And then, thirdly, is just simply taking a moment, you know, it's a

• 1:17:22Speaker 01

  practice. Before I ever have anybody come to my home, whenever somebody is coming over, I always go into meditation and I prepare the space to welcome them, to bring them here. So, and that can be in your own way, you know, you don't need permission to pray, you don't need a format to pray, but you can just say, you know, "My highest aspect of myself and all the energies working in this realm, you know, please prepare the space to welcome my guests, and I want to activate and intend for the highest divine alignment in order of priority, as God would have it be, or as creation would have it be, or the Force." I'm not talking about religion, I'm just talking about spiritual energies.

• 1:18:08Speaker 01

  So you can set the intention and then identify the qualities that you want to experience. You know, I want to experience peace and beauty and creativity and love and communion and grace and joy. You can activate all of those things. And then wrap it in a bunch of gratitude before you go. You know, and this could be in your own space or before you're going someplace. And when you walk in, be in a state of gratitude. And understand that everybody's just playing a role in this crazy movie that we're all in. And so there are no bad guys or good guys. Like, we're just all in the soup together. And if you get triggered, uh, look at why you're triggered.

• 1:18:52Speaker 01

  Take the opportunity. Don't miss the opportunity. You know, look at why you're triggered and be like a child, like with wonder, like, whoa, check that out. Like, wow, I have some resistance to that. You know, what is there? Like, do I need to forgive myself for not having children? Or do I need to forgive myself for not, you know, not finding my soulmate yet? You know, because it all really goes back to us. And if you were cool with it, you know, if Aunt Betty said that, it wouldn't trigger you. And probably one step further, she probably wouldn't say it. It probably would never even be said. So again, these are very difficult. I mean, I have had, you know, massive, massive explosions with human relationships. Probably more than anybody.

• 1:19:35Speaker 01

  And, you know, I'm writing about these in my book, you know, so someone will take, get, you know, entertainment value out of them for sure. But it's profound to me, um, the level of trauma and how, you know, how closely tied it is to people that have been very significant in my life and significant in our family and the evolution. So it's quite interesting, I think, um, to explore our human life from this perspective. And I think there's great opportunity for growth and expansion. And, um, it's a beautiful thing. It's not always fun, but it is beautiful.

• 1:20:10Rich Roll?

  It is.

• 1:20:12Rich Roll?

  Thanks for doing that.

• 1:20:13Speaker 01

  Thanks for having me, Rich Roll.

• 1:20:15Rich Roll?

  I think we did it.

• 1:20:16Speaker 01

  I think we did it.

• 1:20:17Rich Roll?

  We didn't, we didn't exactly talk it all out. We could talk about this forever, I think, but I feel like we offered a few helpful tidbits to help people through the holidays. Maybe we'll do more on holiday stuff as we progress through the next month, right?

• 1:20:32Speaker 01

  I think we should get into relationship stuff.

• 1:20:34Rich Roll?

  All right, we can do that.

• 1:20:37Speaker 01

  But anyway, yeah, so, um, yeah, wishing everybody an amazing Thanksgiving and I hope you guys are eating some beautiful, vibrant, healthy food and taking advantage of some of my Thanksgiving dishes in the Plant Power Way. Just pointing out, uh, you have ginger cranberry sauce and gluten-free stuffing. Um, two, two kinds of potatoes, mashed potatoes and cauliflower mashed potatoes. Of course, cashew cheese would find a place somewhere, vegan pumpkin pie, um, possibly one of the other pies like Rich's birthday apple pie could be amazing. Um, and many, many, many, many other things. Caesar salad.

• 1:21:18Speaker 01

  Uh, so anyway, hopefully you found, uh, some abundance and some vibrance in your holiday table and meal plan this year.

• 1:21:27Rich Roll?

  Yeah, for sure. And we've been sending out emails with, uh, with some holiday recipes, uh, to our subscriber list. So if you're not on that, uh, subscribe to my newsletter. Just go to richroll.com and I'm never going to spam you. It's just basically just updates about the podcast and then the occasional free recipe or additional thoughts, just kind of exclusive content.

• 1:21:48Speaker 01

  Yeah. And we're also running a sale with Mind Body Green on our, on our nutrition course. Um, and also, um, you can of course get a copy of our book as well.

• 1:21:58Rich Roll?

  Right. So yeah, The Ultimate Guide to Plant-Based Nutrition, which is at mindbodygreen.com under video courses. It's like three and a half hours of streaming video content. It's on sale. Do you know what the, the price reduction is?

• 1:22:08Speaker 01

  I think it's 30% off and it's through the first of December.

• 1:22:12Rich Roll?

  Right. So for this week. So check that out. Um, you can find Julie online at Srimati, S-R-I-M-A-T-I, mostly on Instagram. You do Twitter, but Instagram's like your jam.

• 1:22:24Speaker 01

  Instagram is the place.

• 1:22:25Rich Roll?

  Right, and srimati.com is her blog and music website. And this is a point where I always talk about where I'm going to be appearing, but I'm done traveling now for a while.

• 1:22:35Speaker 01

  He's gonna be appearing in our home with his children and his wife.

• 1:22:39Rich Roll?

  Yes, exactly. And for all your plant power needs, of course, go to ritual.com. You can check out Julie's meditation program, humming meditation, very helpful practice as we enter into the holidays in terms of, you know, creating that healthy boundary and sealing your field. I highly suggest that. We've got some nutrition products, 100% organic cotton garments, tech tees, all kinds of cool stuff. Go to ritual.com and you can find all that stuff there. And keep sending in the questions for future Q and A podcasts to [email protected]. And what else? I think that's it.

• 1:23:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, I just wanted to take us out with another tool, actually. It's going to be a humming track. And it is a sample of what is actually in the meditation program, except this one has some bee swarms and nature sounds superimposed on it. But it's actually 13 tracks of my voice in a humming meditation. And it's quite calming and quite soothing.

• 1:23:44Rich Roll?

  What happens if someone's like driving their car right now or like on the treadmill?

• 1:23:47Speaker 01

  Hopefully they won't like totally just fall asleep.

• 1:23:50Rich Roll?

  Are you sure that's what you want to end it with here?

• 1:23:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, it's fine. It's only like a minute and a half because I cut it down. You know, I just cut it down. It's just like a little sort of closer to the album from Jai Home. But it's, it's really beautiful and possibly you could just listen to it in the car before you go into that holiday dinner and be, and be ready.

• 1:24:08Rich Roll?

  All right, cool. Awesome. Well, Happy Thanksgiving, everybody. Rock on and we'll be back with you in a couple of days.

• 1:24:15Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:24:16Rich Roll?

  All right. Peace. Bye.

• 1:24:19Speaker 01

  Namaste.