Pod Insights The Oprah Podcast Building a Billion Dollar Brand with Anastasia Soare and Oprah About this episode Oprah sits down with the “Eyebrow Queen,” Anastasia Soare, to talk about how she escaped Communist Romania and built a billion-dollar beauty empire in the United States. The Anastasia Beverly Hills founder and CEO tells her only-in-America story in her inspiring new book, Raising Brows. Joining them are business mogul Kim Kardashian, Anastasia’s daughter, Claudia—now ABH president and creative director—and aspiring entrepreneurs looking for inspiration from Anastasia and Oprah. This podcast is a must-listen for anyone dreaming of starting their own business and wondering how to turn that dream into reality. This episode is presented by Walmart. Find Anastasia’s new book Raising Brows and so much more at Walmart.com.
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'Raising Brows' by Anastasia Soare
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00:00:00 - Welcome Anastasia Soare, author of “Raising Brows”
00:03:11 – Meeting Oprah for the first time
00:05:12 – Starting out in America
00:09:13 – Lessons from her mother’s business
00:13:17 – Building a billion-dollar brand
00:18:58 – The key to following your dreams
00:19:35 – Welcome Kim Kardashian
00:21:25 – Kim on Anastasia’s success
00:22:08 – What Anastasia learned from Kim
00:24:07 – Scaling a business
00:26:48 – Owning your story
00:29:40 – Doing brows live on The Oprah Show
00:32:47 – Anastasia’s daughter Claudia
00:37:58 – Growing profitability
00:45:50 – Fearlessness as a business asset
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Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Oprah Winfrey? This episode of the Oprah Podcast is presented by Walmart. Kim Kardashian is joining us now from New York City. Hello.
0:08 Speaker 01 Couldn't miss this. Oh, I remember 1:00 a.m. and she has this light that she puts where she looks like a minor, you know?
0:18 Oprah Winfrey? Yes, yes, yes, yes. We know that light.
0:20 Speaker 01 And I've been in love ever since.
0:26 Oprah Winfrey? Hi there and welcome to the Oprah Podcast where my goal is to bring you some inspiration. Yes, and new ideas and definitely a lot of good vibrations, good energy. That's what's important to me right now is using my gifts, my talents, my voice to spread positive things into the world. So I thank you all for choosing to spend your valuable time here with us. You know, I believe the United States of America is just the greatest country the world has ever known because nowhere else on earth could my story
1:05 Oprah Winfrey? come to fruition and nowhere else could my guest's story be realized either. Only in America. When Anastasia Soare came to America in 1989, she was 31 years old, she had no money and a baby girl on her hip. So let's talk about how this billion-dollar empire started. She started as a temp in a salon doing facials and now heads a global brand valued at over $3 billion. That is the American dream. Anastasia is here to tell us exactly how she did that, what she taught Kim Kardashian.
1:48 Speaker 01 I think it's really important for women in business to support each other.
1:54 Oprah Winfrey? That's true. And what she wants all of you dreaming entrepreneurs to know.
1:59 Speaker 02 So my question is around social media marketing.
2:04 Oprah Winfrey? So I'm thrilled to be here with a woman I have admired for so many years. And, you know, I go around the country speaking and I go around the world. Sometimes I'm asked to speak in different countries. And your story is the story I carry with me wherever I go because I think yours is the greatest immigrant story I've ever experienced. Anastasia Soare, who went from escaping communist Romania to building a billion-dollar brand, literally from her own mind and her own imagination and her own, I mean, hard, hard work. And so this conversation today is to talk about how she did it, how she was raising brows.
2:48 Speaker 03 Yes.
2:49 Oprah Winfrey? And also to help those of you who are dreaming of your own dream, who may have felt lost in your dream, who may feel like that what you have hoped for and what you wished for and what you wanted to do cannot come true. Anastasia is a living testimony that if she can do it, you can do it. So I met her many years ago when I heard everybody was talking about this woman in Beverly Hills who was working magic, changing the way women saw themselves by changing the shape of their eyebrows. And I was like, what? What is that all about? And that had me raising my own eyebrows. And I'm thinking, who is this woman?
3:30 Oprah Winfrey? And I remember the first time I went to Anastasia's Beverly Hills, women were lined up around the corner like there was free food or something.
3:42 Speaker 03 I know.
3:44 Oprah Winfrey? Anastasia, welcome.
3:45 Speaker 03 Thank you so much. Thank you. I have no words to thank you for your support over almost three decades.
3:55 Oprah Winfrey? Yeah, it's almost 30 years.
3:57 Speaker 03 I know.
3:58 Oprah Winfrey? So I'm so excited for our conversation because now everyone can learn, I think, how you became this brilliant, creative businesswoman. And because you have finally written your book, Raising Brows, My Story of Building a Billion Dollar Beauty Empire. And this book is for anybody. You're chasing a dream. You're striving to reach your highest potential. This right here is the toolkit. So I just want to say that for everybody who's saying, and you say this in the beginning of the book, you say, people who say, I don't know how to start a business.
4:34 Speaker 03 Yes.
4:35 Oprah Winfrey? I don't have a college degree or an MBA. I don't speak English. No one understands me when I talk. I don't have contacts who can help me. I don't have money. I'm an immigrant. I'm new to this country. I'm too old. I'm scared. You say what?
4:49 Speaker 03 Just start and do something. Follow your dream, whatever you want to do. You have a dream. Don't just wait for the perfect plan, for the perfect product, for the perfect everything.
5:06 Oprah Winfrey? Anything.
5:06 Speaker 03 Just start.
5:07 Oprah Winfrey? And I say this because in the book, you give all those examples, but you didn't know how to start a business. You didn't have a college degree or an MBA. You didn't speak English. You were new to this country and you were scared.
5:22 Speaker 03 Oh, my God. I was so scared. I was crying every single day, the first six months being in America.
5:28 Oprah Winfrey? Mm-hmm. Well, you know, I started out by saying, this is the greatest country in the world, even though we're all divided now and there's all kinds of polarization. Only in this country could your story have been possible. Only in this country could my story have been possible. And you describe in raising brows that first moment of coming through, which, I mean, it made me cheer up because I think about you and every other immigrant who's come to this country. You don't speak the language.
6:02 Speaker 03 Yes.
6:03 Oprah Winfrey? And you have your literally baby.
6:06 Speaker 03 Yes.
6:07 Oprah Winfrey? On your side. You don't even know what the guy at the passport.
6:12 Speaker 03 Was talking about.
6:13 Oprah Winfrey? You don't even know what he's saying.
6:15 Speaker 03 Yes.
6:15 Oprah Winfrey? There's this moment where you describe, you see him speaking. You don't know what he's saying, but you look to the left and you look to the right. You see what everybody else is doing.
6:22 Speaker 03 Yes.
6:23 Oprah Winfrey? And they're handing him these papers and you do that.
6:25 Speaker 03 I did that. And then still, he asked me something. I still couldn't understand. The only.
6:33 Speaker 03 Way I felt like I'm relieved when he put the seal.
6:37 Oprah Winfrey? That thud.
6:38 Speaker 03 Yes, and I thought, oh, my God, this is the best sound, sound of freedom.
6:42 Oprah Winfrey? Yeah, that thud of the passport being stamped.
6:46 Speaker 03 Stamped, yes.
6:47 Oprah Winfrey? Tell us about where you were coming from in that moment in Romania and your choice to choose freedom, because you were coming from communist Romania.
7:00 Speaker 03 Yes.
7:00 Oprah Winfrey? Your husband had already come to this country.
7:03 Speaker 03 Yes.
7:03 Oprah Winfrey? And the communist regime, the police officers were looking for him because they felt like he had, what, defected to this country?
7:13 Speaker 03 He defected, he left the ship in Italy.
7:15 Oprah Winfrey? He was working on a ship.
7:16 Speaker 03 He was captain of the ship, he defected the ship, went to American Embassy and asked for political asylum, and I had to go to the police station to answer questions. Where is your husband? You know, why he asked for political asylum? Did you know that? Of course, I had to be interrogated almost every other week. And it was a very dark time in Romania. The communist regime was oppressing everyone. We didn't have electricity, we didn't have food, even you couldn't buy milk for your kid, bread. It was terrible.
7:57 Oprah Winfrey? Yeah, and you had, in your earlier years, lived with your grandfather in a beautiful farmhouse, it sounded like, and the communist regime came in, they took away the land, they took away the property.
8:10 Speaker 03 Everything.
8:11 Oprah Winfrey? And everybody had to move into these, like, you know, government sanctioned apartments?
8:15 Speaker 03 Correct.
8:16 Oprah Winfrey? Yes.
8:17 Speaker 03 Yes, after two homes were confiscated, he moved into a small apartment given by the government, fourth floor with no elevator, and he was in his 80s. And this is what it happened. It was really bad.
8:35 Oprah Winfrey? And then you talk about, and the reason I'm asking all these questions is because I want everybody to know that everything that you go through, everything that you've been through is building strength for what is to come.
8:49 Speaker 03 For sure.
8:50 Oprah Winfrey? That nothing is lost. And so what really reminded me of this story is your father dies.
8:56 Speaker 03 Yes.
8:56 Oprah Winfrey? And your mother is a mother of, you know, this is 1957, 58, 59, in the early 60s.
9:04 Speaker 03 Yes.
9:05 Oprah Winfrey? In Romania. There's not a lot of opportunities for women.
9:08 Speaker 03 For women, there are zero opportunities.
9:11 Oprah Winfrey? Zero.
9:11 Speaker 03 Zero, not a lot.
9:13 Oprah Winfrey? Not a lot. And your mom is out of the home, running a tailoring seamstress business.
9:20 Speaker 03 Yes.
9:20 Oprah Winfrey? And your mother and father had been doing that, right?
9:23 Speaker 03 Both of them, yes. And she came to me, I was 12. She asked me to help her to keep the business.
9:31 Oprah Winfrey? Yeah, but this moment you paint in the book, this beautiful scene where you come home and you're crying, your father has died, and your mother says, "There's no time to cry."
9:39 Speaker 03 Yes.
9:39 Oprah Winfrey? Yeah. "There's no time to cry. You are going to have to step in."
9:43 Speaker 03 Yes, and help me.
9:45 Oprah Winfrey? Yeah, and help me. And what do you think as a 12-year-old in that moment?
9:48 Speaker 03 In that moment, I thought, "Mom, I'm 12. What do I know about business? I don't know anything." And of course, she said, "Well, you are smart. I'm going to teach you everything. Don't worry about it." And of course, I was scared, but if she said that I'm going to be OK and she's going to teach me, I follow her lead.
10:07 Oprah Winfrey? And so, again, I say, nothing that has ever happened to you is lost because watching your mother.
10:14 Speaker 03 Oh, yes.
10:14 Oprah Winfrey? Every day, getting the Vogue patterns. Remember, y'all, when there used to be patterns and people made dresses from the patterns? That women would come and choose from a Vogue pattern. In communist Romania.
10:26 Speaker 03 Correct.
10:26 Oprah Winfrey? Wasn't even allowed.
10:28 Speaker 03 No.
10:28 Oprah Winfrey? And so you had to be doing this, your mother's doing this out of fear that in any time, they can come in and say, what are you doing this for? But the women would come to get dresses made.
10:39 Speaker 03 For sure, because you couldn't go and buy dresses at department store. Everything was made to measure. And she used to make that. And to be in business, because you are not allowed at that time to have your own business. She figured out that every, every wife of, of an influential person in the communist party wanted to have beautiful dresses.
11:05 Oprah Winfrey? They still wanted to dress well.
11:06 Speaker 03 Yes.
11:06 Oprah Winfrey? Yeah.
11:06 Speaker 03 So happy wives, happy lives. So this is how she was able to stay in business. And she, I think she, she was a master of marketing. And I think I learned so much from her without even thinking.
11:21 Oprah Winfrey? Yes, and not only learned something from her, but you learned something from watching how the women transformed.
11:27 Speaker 03 Correct.
11:28 Oprah Winfrey? When they came into your mother's living room.
11:32 Speaker 03 Yes.
11:32 Oprah Winfrey? And would try on their clothes. And then they would feel beautiful for a moment.
11:37 Speaker 03 Correct.
11:37 Oprah Winfrey? And then many years later, you do the same thing when you're transforming women with their brows.
11:42 Speaker 03 Yes.
11:43 Oprah Winfrey? Yes.
11:43 Speaker 03 Because I think the joy you, you, I, I saw, I watched my mom, watching her, the way she dealt with the clients and the way the, her clients had so much joy and they felt so beautiful.
11:59 Oprah Winfrey? Yeah.
11:59 Speaker 03 I felt the same when I started doing eyebrows. It was a, it's a very magical moment when a woman kind of feels beautiful and, and you feel empowered. Once you feel beautiful, I think, you feel really powerful.
12:17 Oprah Winfrey? We need to take a quick break. When we come back, Kim Kardashian joins us and shares the life lesson Anastasia taught her. Hey there. Glad you're back. I am with Anastasia Soare, who is the brilliant founder of her own billion-dollar beauty brand. She has one of the most incredible stories I've ever heard. So let's talk about how this billion-dollar empire started. I mean, that's what's so remarkable about it. You started plucking people's eyebrows
12:48 Speaker 03 Yes.
12:48 Oprah Winfrey? and ended up making a billion, more than a billion dollars. And you believe that eyebrows are our most powerfully defining feature. Explain why.
13:00 Speaker 03 So this is, I didn't invent this. It's a well-known idea that Leonardo da Vinci, for instance, used the golden ratio in all his work.
13:12 Oprah Winfrey? You learned this when you went to art school?
13:13 Speaker 03 Art school, yeah.
13:14 Oprah Winfrey? In communist Romania?
13:15 Speaker 03 Correct.
13:16 Oprah Winfrey? As an art student in Romania, Anastasia studied Leonardo da Vinci. He used the golden ratio to create proportion and balance in his paintings, a balance that is especially pleasing to the human eye. This is the genius idea behind the way Anastasia shapes brows.
13:37 Speaker 03 My teacher always said, if you want to draw a portrait and you want to change an emotion, you just change the eyebrow shape.
13:44 Oprah Winfrey? Wow.
13:45 Speaker 03 And working as an esthetician, when I came to the United States, of course, we did facial body waxing, but never eyebrow in Los Angeles. Nobody was into eyebrows. And I realized that when I bought a camera, disposable camera, I realized that my eyebrows was pencil thin and round because in the 80s, that was the fashion.
14:09 Oprah Winfrey? They were drawing their eyebrows.
14:11 Speaker 03 Correct. And I looked surprised. So it was the aha moment where I thought, wow, I look surprised because of my eyebrows.
14:18 Oprah Winfrey? Yeah.
14:19 Speaker 03 So I went to the library.
14:20 Oprah Winfrey? Everybody looked surprised.
14:21 Speaker 03 Yes, correct.
14:22 Oprah Winfrey? Yes.
14:23 Speaker 03 I went to the library and I I revisit the the books. I I rented all the books with Leonardo da Vinci. And I was able to create the perfect arch for me, the perfect shape. And then I start sharing with my clients because my clients will come to the shop and they will think, wow, you you you look different. You look rested.
14:44 Oprah Winfrey? Yeah.
14:44 Speaker 03 Did you change your hair?
14:45 Oprah Winfrey? Yeah.
14:46 Speaker 03 They didn't know was the eyebrows.
14:47 Oprah Winfrey? Yeah, the first time I got my eyebrows done by you, I felt like I look like I had like my face lifted.
14:52 Speaker 03 Do you see what I mean?
14:53 Oprah Winfrey? Something happened, opened up here, yeah.
14:54 Speaker 03 It completely brings so much harmony, so much balance and proportion. Because eyebrow is the most important feature on our face.
15:02 Oprah Winfrey? Who knew that?
15:04 Speaker 03 Well.
15:05 Oprah Winfrey? You didn't.
15:06 Speaker 03 You're looking at.
15:06 Oprah Winfrey? You didn't you didn't invent it, but you were the person who discovered that that is what makes it.
15:10 Speaker 03 I didn't invent it.
15:11 Oprah Winfrey? You didn't know you were starting a brow revolution.
15:14 Speaker 03 Of course not, of course not.
15:16 Oprah Winfrey? No.
15:16 Speaker 03 And then there were no products for eyebrows. I was mixing aloe vera with eyeshadow and Vaseline to create this pomade to fill in the perfect shape.
15:26 Oprah Winfrey? Wow.
15:26 Speaker 03 And the clients will come back after the visit and they will tell me that their eyebrow looked perfect when they leave the salon. But when they will take a shower, they need that products.
15:38 Oprah Winfrey? Yeah.
15:38 Speaker 03 So that was the moment when I thought I'm gonna go to Italy to Cosmoprof and and start a product line.
15:45 Oprah Winfrey? Wow.
15:46 Speaker 03 This is how all started.
15:47 Oprah Winfrey? I know, but before it all started, how many times did you run into people who didn't believe in your theory?
15:54 Speaker 03 Constantly.
15:55 Oprah Winfrey? Constantly.
15:56 Speaker 03 Yeah, even even my husband.
15:57 Oprah Winfrey? Yes.
15:58 Speaker 03 It's like, are you crazy? Because I I told him like, I'm gonna quit my job. He didn't work at that time. I'm gonna quit my job and I'm gonna rent a s- a space, a room.
16:08 Oprah Winfrey? I just want to say he didn't work at that time because your husband was a really brilliant man.
16:12 Speaker 03 Yes.
16:13 Oprah Winfrey? And had, you know, coming here as an immigrant, the only job he could get was as a cab driver.
16:17 Speaker 03 Correct.
16:18 Oprah Winfrey? And working as a cab driver fourteen hours a day just wore him out.
16:23 Speaker 03 Yes, and he got in a fight with a customer because the customer found a book. In the backseat, a Nietzsche book, and he kind of ridiculed my husband, like, oh, there's no way you are reading this book. I think a previous client.
16:38 Oprah Winfrey? The customer had said, oh, somebody left this book. Your husband said, oh, that's my book. And he said, there's no way you're a cab driver and you're reading this book. And your husband got into a fight.
16:49 Speaker 03 And he got fired.
16:50 Oprah Winfrey? Yeah.
16:51 Speaker 03 So.
16:52 Oprah Winfrey? So now you're the breadwinner.
16:53 Speaker 03 Now I'm the breadwinner. And I told him, like, I really believe in eyebrows. I think they are so important. The owners of the shop didn't believe in it. And I'm gonna rent a room in a.
17:05 Oprah Winfrey? Let's preface this by saying you had gone to work substituting for another esthetician.
17:10 Speaker 03 That was pregnant for three months. And then after the time she came back, they liked me. And I stayed there for a year and a half, almost two years.
17:20 Oprah Winfrey? What's important to me about that story, and I was just saying this to somebody who recently, a member of my family, who was like, you know, they're having trouble, they haven't fulfilled their dreams and they think they should have fulfilled their dreams already. I said, the reason you haven't fulfilled your dreams is because you weren't really willing to take the jobs and do what was necessary to get to the dream. Everybody just wants the dream.
17:42 Speaker 03 Correct.
17:43 Oprah Winfrey? And so what's important about your story is that your husband, you're new to this country. You don't really speak English well. And you take a job as an esthetician.
17:56 Speaker 03 Yes.
17:57 Oprah Winfrey? Because that's the job that was available to you.
17:59 Speaker 03 Correct.
17:59 Oprah Winfrey? At the time. And as that esthetician, you then decide, well, you know what? I can make women look and feel even better, even better.
18:10 Speaker 03 Yes.
18:10 Oprah Winfrey? And then you dare to do it, even though the people who you're working for are saying, no, that's not important.
18:14 Speaker 03 Correct. I think the key to follow your dream is just start. Start somewhere. And nobody is gonna put you to run the company. Nobody is gonna ask you to be the CEO of the company.
18:26 Oprah Winfrey? I know.
18:26 Speaker 03 But start as an intern or whatever. Just learn the business and you will figure out, do I like this or maybe I don't?
18:36 Oprah Winfrey? Well, I credit you with starting the brow revolution and the list of celebrity brows that you've done. Victoria Beckham and Jennifer Lopez and Naomi Campbell and Michelle Pfeiffer and Heidi Klum and going on and on and on and Kim Kardashian.
18:50 Speaker 03 Yes.
18:50 Oprah Winfrey? Kim Kardashian is joining us now via Zoom from New York City. Hello.
18:55 Speaker 01 Hi.
18:56 Oprah Winfrey? Your brows look fabulous.
18:58 Speaker 01 Couldn't miss this, you know.
19:01 Oprah Winfrey? Thank you.
19:01 Speaker 01 I really do get how important Anastasia's business is and how she has shaped so many faces and how brows can really give you so much confidence and shape your face when you just, you might not even realize that's what's doing you. So I just have to, had to give her some love today and let her know that you've shaped my face, you know how important you are to me and I'm so proud of you for being here talking to your friend.
19:30 Speaker 03 Thank you.
19:30 Oprah Winfrey? Thank you for taking the time to be with us. Tell us the story of how you first met Anastasia.
19:35 Speaker 01 All I remember is looking up at, it could be at a baby shower of mine in the dark, it could be at a wedding in the middle of the night, I remember 1:00 a.m. And she has this light that she puts where she looks like a miner, you know.
19:53 Oprah Winfrey? Yes, yes, yes, yes. We know that light.
19:54 Speaker 01 Laring in your face. So I don't remember exactly when we met. I think I came into the store.
20:01 Speaker 03 Yes, you came in the store.
20:02 Speaker 01 Yeah, I think I was getting my nails done across the street on Bedford and I walked across and I couldn't believe you were in the store and I just had to get my brows done and I've been in love ever since. But I will always have this burned memory in my brain, a core memory of just your light in my face, getting it done, no matter where, no matter what, any important moment that I've had in my life, you've been there. So.
20:32 Oprah Winfrey? Yeah. Well, I mean, I don't know a harder working businesswoman, maybe yourself.
20:39 Speaker 03 Yes.
20:40 Oprah Winfrey? What do you think is the secret to Anastasia's success?
20:43 Speaker 01 I think she found.
20:46 Speaker 01 Something like a niche idea and products that people didn't know they needed. And she let the world know they needed it. And it was her thing and she coined it and and we all need it. And we all better because of it. And it could just be a simple brow product, a simple brow pencil. We all have that Anastasia brow pencil. You can find one in any one of my purses. She found that product that everyone needs.
21:17 Oprah Winfrey? Now, my now is the brow freeze gel. I go nowhere without the brow freeze gel. Yeah, the brow freeze gel. And what have you learned from Kim?
21:26 Speaker 03 Kim is one of the hardest worker.
21:28 Oprah Winfrey? Yeah.
21:29 Speaker 03 She is constant, but not only her, all the sisters and the mother.
21:35 Oprah Winfrey? Oh, Chris, yes.
21:36 Speaker 03 Chris is amazing, but but Kim is an incredible mother, an incredible sister, an incredible daughter and and the hardest working. Like she is right now promoting her brand, Skims with Nike. And she still took the time to to be join us and supported me. Thank you.
21:57 Speaker 01 You know why? Because, well, because I love you and because this is Oprah. But also because you are not a gatekeeper. And I think it's really important for women in business to support each other and to share what we've learned and the hard, the good, the bad. And the one person that my mom and I talk about all the time that shares every detail of what you've been through on and tips of how for us to be successful. You want everyone around you to be successful. And if you see something, you pull us aside and you say, hey, this isn't going to work. And this is what you need to do. And here's the number and you need to call this person. And that is so rare.
22:40 Speaker 01 She will share from factories to business people to things that people in this business do not share. And she is so open that I would do anything for her and she knows that.
22:53 Oprah Winfrey? Well, congratulations, Kim, on the new launch. And I know much success is coming from that. Thank you for zooming in. So great to see you.
23:02 Speaker 01 What an honor. What an honor. Thank you.
23:05 Oprah Winfrey? All right. That's Kim Kardashian, y'all.
23:08 Speaker 01 Yes.
23:09 Oprah Winfrey? And on the Oprah Podcast Instagram page, we heard from.
23:15 Oprah Winfrey? Thousands of you who, just like Anastasia, you feel a business calling in your life. And two of those women, Diana and Jackie, join us now via Zoom from San Diego. Hi, ladies. What's your question? Hi.
23:29 Speaker 01 Hi.
23:30 Oprah Winfrey? Hi, Diana and Jackie.
23:32 Speaker 04 Hi, Anastasia. Thank you so much for having us. We are thrilled to be here today. We started our business, Color Addict, about a year and a half ago. And we are passionate about color. We believe that color inspires. And we've been selling our textiles, our pillows, our table runners, our napkins and blankets at female maker markets in San Diego. But we're at a pivotal point, and we'd like to know how we can scale up our business.
24:05 Speaker 03 Well, what I would suggest, I love all the colors. They are so vibrant and beautiful. And I have to tell you that I love, as you know, I love to throw dinner parties and love. I will want to see a setup of a dining table with all your napkins and how you pair. Because when you post on social media, you have three seconds to get my attention and everybody else. So what I would suggest, figure out who is your customer and tag. When you post on Instagram, tag that store that you want. You want Walmart. You want, who do you want to sell your products?
24:48 Speaker 03 And tag and find out where is their headquarters and try to get an appointment. Don't give up. Like, go and knock at every single door and don't give up. This is what I...
24:59 Oprah Winfrey? But I like this idea of, obviously, you all are on social media, on Instagram. I like this idea of...
25:06 Speaker 03 Setting a beautiful table.
25:07 Oprah Winfrey? Setting a beautiful table. Or setting a beautiful bed. Or setting a beautiful sofa, blah, blah, blah, blah.
25:13 Speaker 03 Correct.
25:13 Oprah Winfrey? Creating that. And even if it means you have to go to somebody else that also would appreciate that creation. Creating that so that when we see it, there is the visual...
25:23 Speaker 03 We are very visual.
25:24 Oprah Winfrey? But there's... The visual stimulation for it because as we're going to talk about in a few moments. Anastasia was big, was doing brows, people were lined up around the corner. But the business didn't take off until her daughter Claudia came in and said, I think we need to create an Instagram story. Yes. Leanne Morgan, who was just here, who now has a special with Netflix, who's now touring the country, who's one of the funniest women I know. Nothing happened until she went on social media. They did an Instagram story. She hired these two guys who she didn't really know that well to build a story about her. So the world responds to storytelling. Mm hmm. So the question becomes, Diana and Jackie, what is your story?
26:08 Oprah Winfrey? What is the story you want to offer? Yes. To the public. Correct. Because what you're doing with your business is, is the same thing that, that. We did. That Anastasia did, that I do. For every show I was doing, it was an offering to the audience. It's an offering. So what is the story you want to tell about the offerings? And get busy telling that story. Yeah. Thank you both.
26:31 Speaker 04 That's what I buy.
26:32 Speaker 03 Thank you so much and good luck.
26:33 Oprah Winfrey? Thank you, thank you. Well, this is what, you know, I was, I was so moved and have been, I mean, I've known for years. I'd heard the story that you learned to speak English watching the Oprah show. I know. Yes. And then I teared up when I was reading that because one of the things that you said in the book was that I and the show became your anchor, that you are watching as a person who doesn't speak English. Yes. And you actually said to your husband one day, what he was saying, you should turn that off. Why are you watching that? You don't even know what they're saying. And you said, I'm going to watch because.
27:07 Speaker 03 Because I want to be on her show and I, I want to learn how she asks questions. Because I need to learn how to answer her questions.
27:15 Oprah Winfrey? I know.
27:16 Speaker 03 And, and it was a joke. I never in my wildest dream in 1990, I was ever thinking that I would be on your show. But I would watch that because it was my hope. And you know what else, Oprah? When I started writing the book, I realized why there were so many daytime shows.
27:34 Oprah Winfrey? Yeah.
27:35 Speaker 03 At that time.
27:35 Oprah Winfrey? Yeah.
27:36 Speaker 03 Why I was watching you. And I couldn't understand was your voice. Because in Romania, I had four VCRs tapes. And one of them was.
27:49 Oprah Winfrey? The Color Purple.
27:49 Speaker 03 The Color Purple. And I will watch, but you looked so different.
27:53 Oprah Winfrey? In The Color Purple, yeah.
27:54 Speaker 03 In The Color Purple. And when I watched your, your show was the voice that was very familiar. Cause I watched that probably a hundred times with my family. And I felt like I was home.
28:05 Oprah Winfrey? You watched The Color Purple and you watched Pretty Woman.
28:08 Speaker 03 Yes, Pretty Woman and Beverly Hills Cop.
28:10 Oprah Winfrey? Beverly Hills Cop and now you live.
28:12 Speaker 03 Across the street from Eddie Murphy. I know.
28:15 Oprah Winfrey? That is the American dream.
28:17 Speaker 03 Correct.
28:17 Oprah Winfrey? Wow.
28:19 Speaker 03 Yes, but it, it was, it was magical.
28:24 Oprah Winfrey? Well, well, here's the thing with the show. Every time I ever discovered anything was a pair of Uggs, a pair of pajamas. That's how favorite things started. I wanted, I discovered, I wanted to share, I wanted everybody to know. So when I discovered you.
28:37 Speaker 03 Yes.
28:37 Oprah Winfrey? And what you were able to do for my brows. That first day you handed me the mirror and I went.
28:43 Speaker 03 Wow.
28:44 Oprah Winfrey? It looks like I had a facelift.
28:46 Speaker 03 Yeah.
28:47 Oprah Winfrey? I wanted the audience to experience or know about you in, in the, in the same way. So y'all, this is what I did. Uh, you could never do this in today's world, but.
28:58 Speaker 03 I know.
28:58 Oprah Winfrey? I had Anastasia on The Oprah Show. We're like live broadcast television.
29:04 Speaker 03 Doing eyebrows.
29:06 Oprah Winfrey? Doing eyebrows.
29:07 Speaker 03 For five minutes.
29:07 Oprah Winfrey? Yes.
29:12 Speaker 02 All right, this is Anastasia, queen of brows.
29:16 Oprah Winfrey? There's just me lying on the thing, getting my eyebrows done and the audience watching me getting my eyebrows done.
29:21 Speaker 02 Lay my head back, all the way back, look up. Hello, hello.
29:26 Oprah Winfrey? It is the craziest thing.
29:27 Speaker 03 You supported me from the beginning and I'm forever grateful for you.
29:31 Oprah Winfrey? Well, I did it because I believed in you, but I also was, just wanted everybody else to, to know about it.
29:37 Speaker 03 This is what was so different about you because you shared everything with everyone.
29:42 Oprah Winfrey? Yeah, I shared too much.
29:44 Speaker 03 No, you didn't. We all, I mean, I was like watching that show nonstop.
29:50 Oprah Winfrey? Yes, but you had this thing too, that you, you say in the book, my grandfather's ability to keep going taught me that no matter what is happening around you. Only you have the power over your mindset. Only you can decide what will give you meaning. And once you make that decision, every action you take, whether personally or in business, needs to move you toward making that happen. This is what I appreciate about you. You would not give up with the whole brow thing.
30:17 Speaker 03 Yes, yes.
30:18 Oprah Winfrey? Everybody is saying, lady, you're crazy.
30:20 Speaker 03 You're crazy, yes.
30:22 Oprah Winfrey? You can't do a business on just brows.
30:24 Speaker 03 You can't pay rent doing eyebrows. The landlord will say.
30:27 Oprah Winfrey? Yes.
30:28 Speaker 03 And I, the broker that I went there to have the meeting with the landlord, he's like, after a first no, he said, okay, let's go. He doesn't want to rent you the space. I'm like, no, I'm not leaving this. No, we have to, let me show you how many celebrity I'm shaping eyebrows for. I'm very successful, like I start selling myself.
30:50 Oprah Winfrey? Yeah.
30:50 Speaker 03 And it's like, no, lady, this is Beverly Hills. Doing eyebrows, you will not be able to pay rent. It's like by John, I was like, how I will do it.
30:59 Oprah Winfrey? This is the guy who was going to sell you, let you have the place?
31:02 Speaker 03 The space, on Bedford. And at the end, I pulled my last card. It's like, look, I'm sure your parents, your grandparents, grand grandparents were immigrants in this country. Somebody give them a chance. Give me a chance for six months. Let me, let me have the space. And if I don't make it, I will leave. So he looked at me and he said, okay, I will give you six months.
31:26 Oprah Winfrey? Wow, that is great. I thank you for following the Oprah Podcast. Next, Anastasia's daughter Claudia joins the conversation. You have to hear how her mom actually fired her from the company and then rehired her. Um, hey, y'all, thanks for coming back to the Oprah Podcast. My hope is this conversation gives you the courage and the inspiration to chase your own dreams. Well, let's talk about Claudia.
31:54 Speaker 03 Yeah.
31:55 Oprah Winfrey? So Claudia is Anastasia's daughter.
31:57 Speaker 03 Yes.
31:57 Oprah Winfrey? And on social media, she goes by Norvina, y'all. And she's the president and creative director of Anastasia Beverly Hills. Hi, Claudia.
32:07 Speaker 03 Hi.
32:08 Oprah Winfrey? Yes, hi, babe.
32:10 Speaker 03 Mom. Hi, Claudia.
32:12 Oprah Winfrey? Hi. So you weren't always president of the company. I was reading at one point. Your mom even fired you. What happened?
32:23 Speaker 01 You know, in, in the beginning, you know, I was, I was young and I didn't really, I didn't really have a deep appreciation for time and being punctual. I was late to work. Um, and my mom would warn me, you know, she said, "We start here at nine, that means you have to be here 10 minutes early, 15 minutes, prep the space. You can't waltz in at 9:05. That's not how this works." And, you know, in 1918, I'm like, "Oh yeah, sure, mom." And she goes, "If you're late three times, I will fire you." And I didn't believe her.
32:56 Speaker 01 On that third time, she literally fired me from the front desk. Yes.
33:02 Oprah Winfrey? You couldn't believe it, right?
33:04 Speaker 01 Yeah.
33:04 Oprah Winfrey? You couldn't believe it.
33:05 Speaker 01 "Go." And I was like, "What are you talking about?" She's like, "You're done. You don't respect my time, you don't respect the girls' time, you know, the, the girls that were doing brows." She's like, "You've gotta go." So I was done.
33:15 Oprah Winfrey? And what was your takeaway after being fired? You went and worked for an insurance company, right?
33:20 Speaker 01 I was so bad. Oh my God, I've never been so depressed. It was one month in like a dark room with no windows filing. I'm not very good at that. Um, the takeaway was that you really have to be punctual, you have to respect time. And I think the biggest takeaway, I would say, was that's when we kind of level set our relationship and I understood that, while she's my mom, this is work.
33:42 Oprah Winfrey? Yeah. So where did you get this idea? I mean, the business was doing fine. You all were making more money than you ever imagined. And selling a lot of product and the, everybody in Hollywood was coming. And the brow revolution had started. So where did you get the idea of the, of, of social media? This was 2012.
34:06 Speaker 01 It was, well, for a long time, you know, our biggest concern was that, uh, being a brow brand, you know, there's no way to continue to expand and innovate quarterly as most retailers expect you. You have to launch it four times a year. That's literally impossible with eyebrows. Um, so our biggest fear was like, okay, well, where do we? We go from here. We have to have makeup. We have to have something else to really get the products like become a bigger brand. Um, and retailers didn't really understand. They didn't really want to support it. They said, no, you're the brow people. There's people that do makeup. We don't think customers will understand the messaging. And thankfully, I started using early on from the very beginning Instagram and I
34:50 Speaker 01 I really love the sense of community on there and the ability to uh communicate directly with people versus traditional print and everything that was the standard.
35:00 Oprah Winfrey? Yes. So as we were just sharing with Diane and Jackie who's starting their own business selling all these items with color that it's about the story that you tell about the product. That's what changed for you, right?
35:14 Speaker 01 Yes. You know, in traditional advertising, you can't tell a story. No one's reading your biography and brand DNA in a, in a one-page advertisement. But on Instagram, you have the ability to post as many times as you want. There were no videos at the time. It was only photos. You can post as many times as you want. You can be as descriptive. You could be funny. You could tell your story. You could explain about your products. You could explain about Anastasia and it, it literally built a community for us and it became this huge thing and we were able to launch makeup because of social media.
35:45 Oprah Winfrey? Well, your mom says on page one seventy-four, when I think about it now, if it all ended for me tomorrow, I would say my greatest achievement in life, even beyond the business I built, is that my daughter has found her purpose and that she does it extraordinarily well. That makes you feel what when you hear that?
36:02 Speaker 01 Oh, that's so nice. Like it's amazing. Like I think my mom is the best. I look up to my mom so much. So to have her validate what I do is really, really great.
36:11 Oprah Winfrey? And you have found your passion in the creating of the products and the makeup and the, I mean, that's where you have now found your home.
36:19 Speaker 01 Thank God we're not in plumbing.
36:23 Speaker 01 Yes, she kind of laid the groundwork for like the most amazing, you know, industry that you could imagine is beauty. Who doesn't love beauty? And I, I figured out that.
36:33 Oprah Winfrey? I, listen, I love plumbing when I need a plumber.
36:37 Speaker 01 It's true, but I would be terrible at it, you know?
36:39 Oprah Winfrey? Yes, yeah. And you name all the products and all the lipsticks and all the, you do that.
36:44 Speaker 01 All of that, the marketing and kind of the storytelling. It's not just about launching it. It's about then, how do you do a launch event? How do you talk about it? How do you promote it? It's carrying the whole thread, telling the story.
36:56 Oprah Winfrey? Claudia, thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you, Claudia. Thanks for joining us. Thanks for joining us. We have one more podcast listener with a question. Shanice is a professional closet organizer. Hello.
37:08 Speaker 03 Hi.
37:08 Speaker 02 Hi, Oprah and Anastasia.
37:11 Oprah Winfrey? Hi.
37:12 Speaker 03 Crazy she is.
37:13 Oprah Winfrey? You know, I love an organized closet girl.
37:15 Speaker 02 Yes.
37:16 Oprah Winfrey? Yes. Let me just tell you.
37:18 Speaker 03 Oh.
37:19 Oprah Winfrey? Everyone should have the privilege, the joy, the sheer delight of being in Anastasia's closet. One night I went to her house for a dinner party and I, she said, oh, come upstairs. I want to show you something. And I go upstairs. It is better than Bergdorf's up there, baby.
37:35 Speaker 02 Bergdorf's?
37:36 Oprah Winfrey? It's better than Bergdorf's in Anastasia's closet. She's got things organized by designers and years and vintage and shoes and. It was like, you want to live in that, that closet? So that's a, that's.
37:54 Speaker 03 Yes.
37:54 Oprah Winfrey? So the fact that you, but so that's what you do for people is you create closets that look like Bergdorf's?
37:59 Speaker 02 Yes, pretty much. So as a professional closet organizer and also a scientist, I really focus on the closet because I have this like hypothesis around the closet. I think it's like the most overlooked space in our homes, yet it holds the most weight. It's where we hold our insecurities, our fears, our tears, and we shove all the stuff we don't want people to see. But yet it has the power to like be the most transformational space. So I've been doing this for over a decade for people from A-list celebrities to everyday people and just helping them transform their closet. And I really do have a question for you.
38:32 Oprah Winfrey? I know, but I love this. I love that there's a science to the closet.
38:36 Speaker 02 Yes. There is, believe it or not.
38:38 Oprah Winfrey? Because your company is called Closet Therapy, right?
38:41 Speaker 02 Yes, Closet Therapy.
38:42 Speaker 03 Okay.
38:43 Oprah Winfrey? Oh, well, that's, that's who you call. You call the closet therapist if you need your closets right now. And I will say this. That having your closet organized changes everything about the way you live, does it not?
38:56 Speaker 02 Yes.
38:56 Oprah Winfrey? It elevates everything.
38:59 Speaker 02 Literally in your mental health as well. So like, a lot of times, people don't realize that you frequent this space every day, morning and night, and every time there's like clutter or something, you're visually sending something to your brain, saying chaos, and you don't want to do that. You want the space to be organized and orderly.
39:16 Oprah Winfrey? Okay, okay. Now I'm gonna give you your time for your question for Anastasia.
39:20 Speaker 02 So my question is around social media marketing, because it's so easy to confuse popularity with profitability. And although like the followers, the likes, the views, and press opportunities are great, how do you translate the visibility into profitability?
39:36 Speaker 03 So you are selling a service. And I will tell you how I vision my, my service, because I was shaping eyebrows. And I thought, I have two hands. How much, I, I used to work nonstop, but I couldn't do more than 100 eyebrows a day. How I will make more money? How I will, I will, how I will do something more than that, than service? It's very difficult to sell a service. You have a cap. Do you remember before the velvet hangers, there were only the wood or the plastic?
40:13 Oprah Winfrey? Yeah.
40:13 Speaker 03 Who is that person that invented that?
40:17 Speaker 03 Start even, because you're a scientist. Come with some ideas to sell products. Like, what is the best steamer? And partner with the, with the retailer that sells steamers. Hooks to, to hold the, the hands when you steam. I, I mean, I have to search a lot to find the best one. So I think, or, or boxes to put my dust bag for my shoes, because I wanted to have a, a pretty box. It, it was challenging. I had to do custom. So maybe you partner with a manufacturer that could do something for you, and you could sell that.
40:57 Speaker 03 Don't you think?
40:57 Oprah Winfrey? I think so, and I think, you know,
40:59 Speaker 03 That's my idea.
41:00 Oprah Winfrey? What Anastasia is stimulating for me in terms of thinking about this, a different way of thinking about this, is you sit down and you look at everything that you do for the closet, and how you could take whatever that is,
41:13 Speaker 03 Yes.
41:13 Oprah Winfrey? Every single thing that you do for the closet, everything anybody needs for their closet.
41:18 Speaker 03 Yes.
41:18 Oprah Winfrey? And how you can turn the need for whatever that one specific thing is, or multiple things, are into a service or into a product that people could use.
41:30 Speaker 03 Yes.
41:31 Speaker 02 That's good. Okay.
41:32 Oprah Winfrey? That's good.
41:33 Speaker 03 Products always will make you more money than service.
41:36 Oprah Winfrey? Products are gonna make you more money than service. Yes.
41:39 Speaker 02 That is my takeaway. Thank you so much. I am so grateful. Thank you.
41:43 Oprah Winfrey? Okay, all right. Thank you.
41:45 Speaker 03 Thanks.
41:46 Oprah Winfrey? Thank you, Shanice. It's so interesting. You were talking about how you love to have dinner parties, and I was at a wonderful dinner party at your house. That's how I ended up in the closet, y'all. And I had no idea that you had a dinner party for 25 years of business.
42:01 Speaker 03 I know.
42:01 Oprah Winfrey? And at the table was all the women who you've serviced over the years. And you wanna read what you
42:11 Speaker 03 Yes.
42:12 Oprah Winfrey? were thinking? I had no idea you were thinking this. I was just coming in like, hi, hi, everybody. And you say,
42:19 Speaker 03 The doorbell rang. The guests were arriving. I could hear Oprah's deep laugh as I turned away from the dining room to greet them in the hallway just beyond the doors. My mind flashed back to another time. I was digging in the dirt behind my house in Romania to hide the family silver, which was my grandmother's proudest possession, so it wouldn't be confiscated by the government police knocking at the door. My fingernails were breaking. I was sweating with fears, even though the temperature was frigidly cold. In an instant, I was back to greet My guess, I was here now, a living testament that through hard work, drive and grit,
43:04 Speaker 03 you could survive, you could thrive. America truly is the land of opportunity, like no other country in the world, a place where an immigrant can start with nothing and go on to build a better life, like I did. That very same family silver was now on the table at my party. Hmm. Isn't that great? Yes.
43:28 Oprah Winfrey? Yeah, that is great that you ended up bringing your mother from Romania.
43:32 Speaker 03 I know.
43:33 Oprah Winfrey? Your mother who lives right down the street.
43:35 Speaker 03 Next to my daughter.
43:35 Oprah Winfrey? Yeah.
43:36 Speaker 03 Yes.
43:36 Oprah Winfrey? And you brought the silver that you buried.
43:39 Speaker 03 Yes.
43:41 Oprah Winfrey? And have created this incredible life.
43:45 Speaker 03 Yes.
43:46 Oprah Winfrey? Beyond anything you could have imagined.
43:49 Speaker 03 Beyond.
43:49 Oprah Winfrey? No, so I, I, I wanted to end with this. You say in the very beginning of the book, people often ask me what the secret to achievement is. Of course, it has a lot to do with working hard, building authentic connections, striving for excellence in every pursuit, being determined and always doing more than the job at hand, principles by which I live. I know you live by those principles because I've seen you do it. But it's also about something less tangible and more magical that begins when you cultivate a particular attitude that drives you forward. And you say, for me, it is an unshakable belief that whispers in my ear from the minute I get up to when I go to sleep that says,
44:33 Oprah Winfrey? you can do anything. I've always believed this and it has been the foundation and heartbeat of all I have accomplished. And I wanted to end with that because I wanted to say lots of people want things, lots of people desire, they have wishes, but you actually become what you believe is possible.
44:56 Speaker 03 Correct.
44:57 Oprah Winfrey? Yeah.
44:57 Speaker 03 I really believed that I could do anything I put my mind into.
45:04 Speaker 03 I think my mother instilled that in me. I think my grandfather did.
45:11 Oprah Winfrey? That's right.
45:11 Speaker 03 But I really, really believed in, in myself. And I had no fears. I think that's another part of my being, that I never have a fear. I, I think fear kind of stops you from doing what you want to do.
45:28 Oprah Winfrey? Well, and I know a lot of people don't do things because they are afraid. And I want to just say that the reason why you had no fear is because you literally had been interrogated and been the most afraid you'd ever been. So when the communist regime is shining the light in your face, saying, where's your husband? When you waited three years to get a passport to come to America? And every day, they are, they are fighting you and threatening you.
45:57 Speaker 03 Yes.
45:58 Oprah Winfrey? After you have been in that kind of fear, you say, okay.
46:02 Speaker 03 Yeah, like, what do I have to lose? What, what?
46:05 Oprah Winfrey? So I'm gonna be afraid of somebody not liking me?
46:07 Speaker 03 Exactly, no, that's.
46:09 Oprah Winfrey? I'm gonna, I'm gonna be afraid of somebody telling me I can't have this, you know, rent from this store?
46:14 Speaker 03 Yes.
46:14 Oprah Winfrey? Yes.
46:15 Speaker 03 That's what it is. The magic is right there.
46:18 Oprah Winfrey? Yes, and that's why I say, nothing is ever lost. You would never think that when you're in the middle of a crisis and, you know, God forbid, you're in a communist regime and people are treating you horribly and you don't even know if you're gonna survive.
46:34 Speaker 03 Yeah.
46:34 Oprah Winfrey? That those strength building tactics that you use to survive are gonna be the thing that gets you through every negotiation with somebody who wants to buy your company. I mean, that, that is what makes you fearless.
46:49 Speaker 03 Correct.
46:50 Oprah Winfrey? Is having stood up to it.
46:51 Speaker 03 Yes, and, and in the book, I said as well, when you come from darkness.
46:57 Oprah Winfrey? Yeah.
46:58 Speaker 03 You recognize the light. And light is here.
47:02 Oprah Winfrey? That's right. And when you've only had the light, you don't even recognize the light.
47:07 Speaker 03 You don't recognize, yes.
47:08 Oprah Winfrey? Yes, yeah.
47:09 Speaker 03 Because you live in a great life.
47:11 Oprah Winfrey? Yeah. Anastasia's extraordinary line of beauty products are available now. Her phenomenal new book is available on walmart.com. And I want to give a special thank you to our friends at Walmart for supporting this episode with Anastasia. Thank you, Kim Kardashian, for joining the conversation. Diana and Jackie and Shanice, take that advice, y'all. And best of luck. As always, a heartfelt thanks to all of you, our listeners. And see you next week. Go well. Raise some brows. Go out there and raise some brows, y'all.
47:43 Speaker 03 Thank you, Oprah, again and again, for your support. Thank you.
47:49 Oprah Winfrey? You can subscribe to the Oprah Podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. I'll see you next week. Thanks, everybody.
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