192: How To Let Someone In Without Losing Yourself | In The Trenches

Dating with an open heart sounds beautiful until your nervous system has other plans. In this solo In The Trenches audience Q&A episode, Sabrina answers your most raw questions about how to let someone in without losing yourself, how to date after grief, and what it actually looks like to stay present when fear or anxiety is running the show. From navigating new love after loss to the hard truth about anxious attachment and self-accountability, this episode covers the real work of building a healthy relationship: nervous system regulation, emotional ownership, and learning the difference between communicating and controlling. Want your question answered on a future episode? Send in your inquiries, stories, and dating profiles to [email protected] If you’re ready to slow down, trust your instincts, and break your old dating patterns, the Healthy Relationship Foundations Course walks you through it step-by-step HERE! If you’re serious about changing your dating patterns instead of repeating them, the Art of Going Slow course helps you unlearn urgency, regulate your nervous system, and build real connection without rushing, chasing, or abandoning yourself HERE! Get Ad free HERE! Want to work with Sabrina? HERE! Get merch for The Sabrina Zohar Show HERE! Don't forget to follow Sabrina and The Sabrina Zohar Show on Instagram and Sabrina on TikTok! Video now available on YOUTUBE! Please support our sponsors! Get organized, refreshed, and back on track this new year for WAY less. Head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. Text SABRINA to 64000 to get 20% off all IQBAR products, plus FREE shipping. Message and data rates may apply. ============================= Chapters 00:00 Dating Without Losing Yourself 03:06 Dating After Grief and Loss 05:02 How to Make Space for Grief While Dating 07:51 When and How to Share Your Grief 09:42 Dating with Courage After Hard Times 11:28 What Is Sapiosexuality in Dating 19:30 Nervous System and Emotional Intimacy 24:30 Anxious Attachment and Gaslighting 27:06 Codependency and Emotional Regulation 29:42 Anxious Attachment and Accountability Disclaimer: The Sabrina Zohar Show, formerly known as Do The Work, is not affiliated with A. Z & associates LLC in any capacity. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:30Speaker 01

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• 0:36Speaker 02

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• 0:47Speaker 03

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• 1:24Speaker 01

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• 1:30Sabrina Zohar?

  How do you let someone into your life and get close with you without losing yourself, without feeling overwhelmed, without reopening the wounds that maybe you haven't fully metabolized yet? How do you stay true to yourself and not let your nervous system take over the wheels and fucking let you act in ways that aren't in alignment with you? We're going to answer every one of those questions today. Welcome to In the Trenches. Hello, hello, hello. Welcome to another episode of the Sabrina Zohar Show. My name is Sabrina Zohar, and I am your host. Babes, we're back for another bonus, a solo bonus this week. And we got your questions, my babies. I am so excited. And as always, thank you, guys. Thank you for being here. Thank you for reading, reviewing, sharing with a friend. Please, please comment. And let me know what you think of the show. But I want to give a little disclosure before we start.

• 2:14Sabrina Zohar?

  We have a lot of new faces here. I curse a lot. I have ADHD, so I speak very fucking fast. And if that's not your show, that's why we market as explicit, that's okay. You don't have to be here. I am creating a safe space, an environment and a community of people that feel like they are seen, heard, understood, and safe to express themselves, my fucking self included. And so if you don't like it, that's okay. You could just find another show or another coach. I don't take offense to that. But leaving really harsh comments and reviews of how much you fucking hate things because they're not the way that you want them. Let me guess, is that how you're doing with your dating life? Is that the text messages that you're sending people because they're not acting in the ways that you want is not going to be conducive for anybody? You're welcome to leave it. You're also going to get blocked. And so I'm just setting new fucking boundaries because I really want to create a community

• 2:59Sabrina Zohar?

  of love, of acceptance, of people that are here because we're doing the work to grow. And that's okay if that's not you. We don't take offense to it. But I just want to give you the option and the choice to say, if this doesn't work, that's okay. But I'm going to stay true to myself because thank you, the people that allow me to show up as me so that you can show up as you. All right, babes, without further ado, let's get right the fuck on into it, shall we? Hi, babes! I had to give a disclosure. I did, I know. For all my babes that have been here with me for a while, you're probably like, girl, we know. But you know what? We got new people. We're growing the show. And so I just like to give people choices because as a kid, I didn't have any. So I just like to share that. But I'm also a human and I think boundaries are really important. And guys, don't forget, as always, we have the courses. I have a new quiz on the website called What Kind of Lover Are You Quiz?

• 3:44Sabrina Zohar?

  And it's a quick nine-question quiz. And then you get added into the email list and you get free dating advice every single week via email. So go ahead and take that. We have the Art of Going Slow. We have the Healthy Foundation course. We've got whatever you need. You can work one-on-one, ask a question, or just be here. We're so grateful to have you and all of the new faces. So let's get started. And guys, please don't forget, send in your questions, your screenshots, give me your profiles, ask the questions, whatever you guys need. I want to be able to help. The show is only as good as the questions that we get. In the trenches at sabrina zohar.com. Let me know what's up, baby. And if you're watching, you'll see the questions pop up. And if you're listening, I'll read them to you. So whatever you guys need. All right, so Tech Guy chose all these questions, so don't forget, I do not know what I'm about

• 4:26Sabrina Zohar?

  to read and you're getting off the cusp with me, but really, the more, the whole entire episode was about really the nervous system, the desire for love, different speeds, again, that's why we have the Art of Going Slow course, is like, it gives you tools, but today, I'm going to answer your question specifically outside of that, of how do you stay present and not lose yourself in these relationships and in dating and in the idea of people? Because like, it's really human, too. So, let's get into it. Hi, Sabrina. Hello. So, I am almost 30 and have never been in a serious or long-term relationship. In my twenties, this was part because I knew I wasn't ready, with the main factor being, I was not willing to be vulnerable out of fear of rejection. Towards my late twenties, after achieving some major life milestones, I felt like something was missing, and it

• 5:10Sabrina Zohar?

  was a life partner, someone that would wake up and choose me every day. Just as I came to this realization, my dad was diagnosed with terminal brain cancer, and I knew I had to do two things. One, build up my tolerance to be and receive vulnerability as I grieved and grappled with losing my father, which I did through therapy and coaching. I'm really fucking proud of you, by the way. I'm so sorry for your loss. And two, put dating on the sideburner while I focused on this growth moment and navigating this difficult time, knowing it would be hard to take on the effort to invest in dating seriously. My dad has since passed since months ago, I'm sorry, baby, but I do feel like I am in the right place now emotionally and mentally to begin dating again with my new vulnerability muscles. How do I make space for the reoccurring grief in the dating process, and how, when do I share the grief with a prospective partner? E.

• 5:50Sabrina Zohar?

  Thank you for sharing that. I know, grief is a fickle fucking bitch, whether it be, for whatever the reasons, right? Ryan and I met under grief, and again, I know to some people, they think it is absurd that I still grieve my dog. Get the fuck out of my show, then, because I think whatever teaches you safety, right? That was clem to me, was safety and object permanence and what it felt to be loved. So, I understand grief. And Ryan lost his sister, she took her life a few years ago, and it has been very, very tough to navigate a relationship with grief, and I think it's interesting. Ryan put a note on here, and he said, "Her question isn't really, 'When do I tell someone my dad died? It really is, 'How do I date with stateness that still lives inside me?'" And I think that's a really valid question.

• 6:33Sabrina Zohar?

  I think we have to be able to hold two conflicting thoughts, right? If you're ready to date and get back out there, I think that's really beautiful. And I think that's really incredible. But we also have to know that like, it's gonna trigger you. There are gonna be people that ask you, oh, so tell me about your parents. And that might make you tear up and get emotional. And I think the reality here is, if you've done a lot of this work, I need to ask you, then what are the tools that we're going to utilize? Does that mean that before you go on the date, you're gonna regulate or do something to kind of bring you back to the present moment? That way, if anything happens in there, you have an answer that you can respond with? And maybe just saying, I lost my father recently, you know, something I'd like to open up with over time as I get to know you, but at this time, it's just still something that I'm, I'm working through or living with, or, you know, I'd like to tell you more about

• 7:16Sabrina Zohar?

  that as we get to know each other, but unfortunately, my father's not here anymore. I think that it's really important to have boundaries for yourself of what you're comfortable speaking about, how comfortable you are to show up on these, on the dates. And I think, you know, grief is, is something that a lot of us don't realize, is living within us every day. It's not just when someone or something leaves this earth. It's the grief of the relationship we thought we would have, the life we thought we'd have, the idea of things that we thought we'd have. Like, we're grieving every single day. And I think a lot of us, myself included, for a long time, wasn't really taught how to do that, right? The ending of relationships, or the ending of life, or the ending of friendships, or people and jobs, things leaving us. We have to grieve.

• 8:00Sabrina Zohar?

  And I think part of that is, one, allowing yourself to feel those emotions and validating where they come from, being painfully honest with yourself, that if you do put yourself out there in dating, that it's okay that it's gonna hurt you. That maybe it's a sign that you say, okay, you know what? Maybe I'm not ready. Or maybe I am, right? Maybe you go out and you meet somebody. But I would say this, I wanna make sure, because you said, how do we make space for the reoccurring grief in the dating process? I think what we have to look at is, are you making that space for grief in your day-to-day life? Are you giving yourself the time to grieve it? When I met Ryan, it was a month after Clem passed. And I'll be honest, you wanna know how I grieved Clem along the way? And I still do, as I talked about him, I shared stories. Stories I told, I shared photos, not immediately, right?

• 8:43Sabrina Zohar?

  Like at first I just had to kind of go through it and like we would have a great date. I'd come home and I'd cry and I would feel bummed because I knew Clemmy couldn't meet him. Or I couldn't meet Ryan's sister, or they're not going to be able to meet your dad, right? Like, these are all really real. And that's an emotion that you get to mourn, you get to grieve. And so I think it's also about what are we doing outside of the dating experience? How honest are we being? I'm not saying you, I'm saying in general. How honest are we being about the role that the dating life is taking for us? Like, is that replacing? Is that helping us avoid grief? Are we facing it head on? Right, just those different variables, I think, that are important to get curious about. But I think you can share the grief with this person. I think you can be honest if they ask you about your family early on of like,

• 9:27Sabrina Zohar?

  I lost my father recently and I'm still processing through that. And it's something I would like to share as I get to know you, but it's not something I'm comfortable sharing right now. I think somebody who, I mean, that's what Ryan did. Like, when I asked him about his, his family and his sister, he said, "Yep, she took her life four years ago," or at the time, sorry, I apologize. It was a year ago, now we've been together three years. He said, um, you know, earlier in the year, like the, the year before. And he said, "But, you know, I'd like to share more about that with you as I get to know you. But for now, I'd like to know more about you. I'd like to know more about what makes you who you are." And it's the same with Clem. Like, I didn't go into that and start showing photos day one, but as the relationship progressed, I cried when it came, when I allowed me to. I held space for that. I allowed myself to be really sad. But you know what I also allowed myself to do? Enjoy happiness.

• 10:09Sabrina Zohar?

  Enjoy that there was somebody new in my life, that it's never going to replace the connection and it's never going to replace the person that left. But you get to build new experiences with this person with them in mind and with them in heart and soul. And so I think anything short of that, I could sit here and give you platitudes and of course say, you know, regulate and make sure you're coming home to yourself and you're getting curious. And, you know, we want to make sure that the people that you're dating and whoever you're going to be with has the capacity to hold you, inclusive of the grief that you're experiencing. But we show that over time. We build trust with somebody and stay really present, really present on how you feel with this person, how your body feels, what's coming up for you, what are the sensations and the emotions? I think that's really important. And I wanted to say again, I'm really proud of you.

• 10:53Sabrina Zohar?

  I'm proud of you for putting yourself out there, even through the pain. And whether, honestly, anybody listening, you could be saying it's a divorce, right? A breakup, a loss. Anything takes a lot of courage and strength to face the emotions and fears yourself and to move through them anyways. And for anybody listening, I'm really fucking proud of you. Life is gonna be tough. You're gonna lose things, you're gonna win things, you're gonna lose, and then you're gonna win them again. But at the end of the day, who do you have? Who do you come home to? What is the person at the end of the day that when you put your head on the pillow, are you proud of who you are? And are you doing this for them or for yourself? Maybe for both. And I think that's okay. This episode is sponsored by Wayfair. You guys know the jingle, "Wayfair, you got just what I need."

• 11:35Sabrina Zohar?

  I love Wayfair because they really do have something for everybody, right? Me and Tech Guy, we're always trying to figure out, okay, what's our style? Do we want more mid-century modern? Do we want more farmhouse, contemporary? But that's why I love Wayfair is because they have so many options in the best way possible. We've got our lighting from Wayfair. You know, baby, I don't turn overhead lighting on. I am all about the vibe. And Wayfair makes it so easy for the house to feel comfy and cozy at a price that you can stand and handle. And I love it because Wayfair makes it simple to narrow down to exactly what works for your style and budget, depending on the room that you're decorating. You can get your decor, you can get pillows, you can literally get anything you need from Wayfair. And right now, you can find furniture, decor, and essentials that fit your unique style

• 12:20Sabrina Zohar?

  and budget. Head to wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R dot com. Again, Wayfair, every style, every home. All right, babes. Wow, we started off with a little bit of a heavy one, but that's okay. I had like, please know, there's nothing, there's nothing wrong with depth and, and heavy, but I just want you to know, I'm really fucking proud of you. So, all right. Let's go. Okay. Hey, Sabrina, you've popped up on my social media bunch recently and I'm a new, I'm now a new convert to following your podcast. I love your brush, direct messaging, and communication style. Congratulations on three years of doing the good work. Your work is important. Thanks, babes. I appreciate it. All right, I've got a really strange question for you. I have recently noticed something about my dating experience that I've never heard anybody

• 13:05Sabrina Zohar?

  talk about or address publicly. I think the definition of this is sapiosexual, and I wonder if you might have some advice for me. I also wonder if this is an experience a lot of women have. For context, and I'm not sure any of this is truly important, I'm a male and my understanding is that I have a pretty different dating experience than many men. I'm tall, smart, objectively and reasonably attractive. I have a cool career in entertainment and have access to a lot of what people would call high-value woman. I hate that term. Same. I am able to go on a lot of dates. I have dated some celebrities, who cares, and generally via Hinge, Raya and other apps. I don't have any problem getting dates. My challenge is that I am rarely initially physically attracted to anyone, even girls that are objectively very attractive. The issue is with me, not how attractive they are. I often just don't feel much or any attraction until the conversation heats up and gets good.

• 13:48Sabrina Zohar?

  I require some intellectual stimulation before I catch the feels. I get that. That I totally understand, actually. When the conversation heats up, I can literally feel myself becoming more physically and generally attracted to the girl. I begin to notice physically things that I knew were there but didn't catch my attention. The reason that I discovered this is that there were a couple instances in the last year I would have liked to have a second date and they didn't want to go. They didn't go that way. What I surmise, can I talk? I'm doing well, is that I'm not giving any kind of flirty vibe when I'm sitting across from them, someone, until later in the date. I imagine that throws off the energy and doesn't make them feel attractive, desired, etc. Though I'm very engaged, curious and asking a lot of questions. As a good date goes on, I become more flirty and more obviously interested, but I think that sometimes by the time I get to the point, it's too late and I'm not able to get back on track.

• 14:31Sabrina Zohar?

  Basically, I need time to find some non-physical things that make my brain light up before I get flirty and start seeing the signal. So my question is, do I just need to fake it? Do I need to go in and force myself to be flirty? Is that just to make sure if I do catch feels, I haven't killed a chance on the second date? Is there another approach that I'm not thinking of? Thanks for your help, Brett. Okay, so, I think what I'm hearing is, I don't actually know if this is sapiosexual. This is more about arousal safety. Right? Your nervous system doesn't experience desire through the visual. And that's for a lot of people, right? Especially on the male side, like, they are very visual and that it's not a visual novelty. You experience through the psychological attunement. And I'll be honest, that's how I have gotten. That is how I've gotten.

• 15:14Sabrina Zohar?

  Because what made me really attracted to Ryan was as we started to talk more, I was like, fuck, this guy's really, like, I like his brain. I like the way he talks, he's funny. And so here's, there's a couple of things. I want to reframe here. I think what I'm hearing is if you don't perform attraction fast enough, you're not going to be chosen. But the reality here is if you're trying to fake who you are on dates and let me show up as this and let me show up as that, you're not allowing people to actually like you for you. And I know that rejection can feel really scary, but if you're not feeling something on a date, you don't need to fake it. You don't have to show up as anything because other people can pick up on that. And the right people are going to be there to understand and to learn more about you as they get to know you on a date, not because within the first five fucking seconds, they didn't feel a spark and that they're all of a sudden turned off.

• 15:58Sabrina Zohar?

  Because my response there would be then those people are chasing a feeling and they're not actually there for you. If you're on a date with somebody and within the first five minutes, they're already determining that you're not that right person and that they're not letting you grow and show up in a different way as the date goes on, then that person's not actually there to date you. They want to chase a feeling and they want to see what's going to come out the other side. It takes time for people to open up. Not everybody is gregarious and big in the first five minutes. And oftentimes, those are people that are fucking performing. We don't need to chase a spark. We don't need to chase a feeling. We need to see how somebody opens up and evolves. And if I'm really present, intentional and focused in the way that I am dating, then I'm going to allow people to be people and I'm going to allow someone to open up and show me over time who they are, specifically over the fucking date and not make a determination in the first five minutes.

• 16:42Sabrina Zohar?

  I understand that a lot of people are saying, "Nah, well..." Then you know what? Those are not your people. Because if you're not even allowed to open up and show different parts of you, we're talking within the same date. I'm not talking in an eight-month period that for the first six months, you're an asshole and then eventually you become a nice person. If somebody doesn't even have the bandwidth, the fucking understanding that some people show up differently, not everybody's lived experience is going to be your lived experience. Not everybody shows up in the same ways. And if somebody doesn't have the patience or the even understanding that other people are going to show up on dates differently, then those are not people I want to fucking date. Because I don't need to show up in the way that they want me to show up. I want to show up in how it works for me and see if that aligns with me. Because I want to date somebody that likes me for who I am, not for who I pretend to be.

• 17:24Sabrina Zohar?

  So I would say this, I don't think you need to perform or to chase. Maybe that means putting something on your profile, like I'm a little slower to open up on a first date, but I'm also really into the mental and physicals. stimulation, uh, like, what's your favorite, like, philosophical quote that you live by? I don't fucking know, right? Like, maybe we can also vet people before. Maybe we can have a FaceTime vibe check to start asking questions, things that stimulate you. Maybe it's even before you guys match, asking a couple of those and seeing how they answer, right? Like, listen, as somebody who lives in LA and gets a lot of the dolphin laugh, that, ah, yeah, like, oh, my god, like, I, like, couldn't, like, oh, my god, like, my botox lady, like, oh, my god, like, she, right, like, I, I've met those people. Right?

• 18:06Sabrina Zohar?

  And I'm not saying that those are all the people that you're meeting, but just because somebody is physically attractive doesn't mean that mentally they're going to stimulate you. I think the misconception I hear quite often is like, oh, well, if you're attractive, you'll get anything you want. No, no, no, being physically attractive gets you in the door, doesn't keep you at the table. You can be the most beautiful human being in the world, and if you don't come with something else, like a mental fucking stimulation, that person's gonna get bored with you real fucking quick because their baseline is gonna diminish. Just because you're attractive doesn't mean that that's the reason somebody wants to be with you. They wanna be with you because of who you are and your mental capacity and the arousal that you give them mentally as well. At least a secure and healthy person does. Because if we're just focused on looks, then we're completely missing out on the rest of the fucking relationship because looks are not gonna hold you when you're crying. Looks are not gonna be the person that creates a safe space,

• 18:51Sabrina Zohar?

  and looks are not gonna mentally stimulate you in the same way as somebody's fucking brain does. I don't think you need to change how you're showing up. I think it's maybe we need to change how we're vetting people in the dating process. Because, like I said, if you taking 20 or 30 minutes to start to, like, warm up and get into somebody is what sends somebody running, then that's not somebody I would wanna date because I don't need to get somebody's attention. What was this fucking Instagram? You gotta hook somebody in the first three seconds, otherwise they're on to the next video. And I think that's what we see. We see that mental capacity has really diminished these days, that people's attention span is like a fucking pigeon. I see it with the podcast. I see it all the time, even when I'm looking at analytics, I'm like, ah, they hopped off after four minutes. It's like, you didn't even wanna fucking give me a minute to explain to you what the episode is about before you've decided that you don't want it. Because there's a lot of people that want immediate.

• 19:35Sabrina Zohar?

  I want it now, I wanna feel good. Those are not your people. The people that you're dating are people that allow you to be a human, that maybe off the bat, you're not. And it's like, maybe it's even starting with like, wow, you look beautiful. Ah, I'm so excited. Like, great, I'm excited to get to know you a little further. Like, tell me more about you, right? Maybe it's getting into like, asking questions that will help you either rule them out, or get excited about them. That's why I think a first date is data collection. A first date is not to assess if they're the love of your life, if this is the person you want to marry, if this is the one for you. A first date to see is if you want to have a second date. So on a first date, we need to ask questions that matter to us so that we can see if this person aligns. I always ask, how'd your last relationship end and what did it teach you about yourself? What is something you changed your mind about recently? And what prompted the change? I want to see, do they take accountability? Are they growth minded?

• 20:20Sabrina Zohar?

  And if that scares anybody, do me the fucking favor. You're never gonna have space for the depth that I hold if you can't even answer a simple fucking question. So I think it's about being a bit more intentional about what that mental stimulation looks like. What are conversations that stimulate you that you want to have? And either having that before you go on the date to see if this person even has it, or getting to it a lot quicker on the date so that you can decide if this is somebody you want to date to. But I don't want you to have to date somebody where you feel you have to be performative. Otherwise, you won't be chosen because then at the end of the day, you're losing yourself. If you're so focused on, will they like me? You've already stopped asking, do I even like them? If you're so focused on, are they choosing me? My next question is, I don't give a shit if they do. Are you choosing you? Are you showing up for you? Are you being there for you? Because if they don't, good.

• 21:05Sabrina Zohar?

  At least you have your fucking self at the end of the day. So I get it, baby. I understand, right? When we start to see a pattern, and it's again, if you were getting feedback, if women were like, hey, I can't read you. I don't understand. That's a different story. But just because you've gone on some dates and after 30 minutes, you start to get into this person, and then after they are not into it, it might just be that maybe they're not interested. Right? It might not have anything to do with like, oh, well, the first 20 minutes, he was weird. It's like, Ryan was super stoic for the first hour because he took a minute to open up. That's why we spent time together. That's why we continued the conversation. That's why we did, that's why we hooked up. But that's why we did things was because I wanted to understand this person more than just in the first five fucking minutes because some people are nervous, some people don't really know. That's okay. So I don't think you need to change how you're showing up.

• 21:46Sabrina Zohar?

  I think we need to change how we're vetting people and determining if we even want to go on a date with them. This episode is brought to you by IQ Bar, our exclusive snack hydration and coffee sponsor. IQ Bar Protein Bars, IQ Mix Hydration Mixes, and IQ Joe Mushroom Coffees are the delicious, low-sugar brain and body fuel you need to win your day. Babys, I put it on my dating profile and I'll say it to you now. Snacks are a must. I ate dinner to get to dessert and I love to have me a snack. And that's why I love IQ Bar so much. They have plant protein bars that are the smarter snack choice. So they have plenty of plant protein, tons of fiber, and no added sugar. I love the matcha. Oh my God, it's so delicious. But the best part is they also have IQ Joe.

• 22:30Sabrina Zohar?

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• 23:08Speaker 00

  LinkedIn is pretty amazing at helping you grow your small business. We cannot make your email response time faster. We can help you sell, market, and hire in one place. We cannot help you find space for your three desk drinks. Why do you have three? And while we can't help you find the perfect volume for your presentation video, LinkedIn can help you find the perfect audience for your business. Grow your small business on LinkedIn. Learn more at LinkedIn.com/smallbusiness.

• 23:38Speaker 01

  Chronic migraine is 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting four hours or more.

• 23:43Speaker 02

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• 24:32Speaker 01

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• 24:38Sabrina Zohar?

  All right, baby, let's get in. Hey, Sabrina, love your content and your matter-of-fact way of delivery. Thanks, babe. I live in Ohio. My partner is in Missouri. Missouri, more slow-paced over there. He works as a psych examiner for kids in an elementary school. We've known each other for three years, but have been seriously dating for four months. After deciding we were meant for one another. Okay, I have questions, but I'll read this first. "Since then, we get together when we can, spend a weekend. We just spent New Year's together an entire week. I'm more anxious, a secure attachment. He's more avoidant, and I think because he works with kids, he views himself as some sort of Nostradamus of human behavior, which, in my opinion, he's not really great with adults. Recently, I relocated for a new job, and I felt he was emotionally unavailable the day before the movers came to get my stuff. I told him this, and I felt he wasn't giving me ample support

• 25:22Sabrina Zohar?

  because it's a big deal to move somewhere totally new, not knowing a soul. The uncertainty of the whole situation can be very scary. And his lack of support dragged him to the next day when I had to go pick up my keys, left the movers in. He called around noon that day to check in, and I told him I need his support, and he tried to end the call. So now it's Thursday, literally two days later. We speak each night. He calls me every single evening. We FaceTime for usually a few hours. And the last two conversations, I noticed him detaching a bit. And he throws, and that throws my amygdala into a bit of a tailspin and acts as a cloud over my entire day, which I feel is unfair of me. He will say I'm not controlling my emotions, and I'm wrong to point out that he wasn't there emotionally while I'm moving."

• 26:02Sabrina Zohar?

  Okay, this is a long email, so I'm just gonna interject as we go along because there, I'm gonna, but my ADHD brain's gonna forget. I think there's a couple of things. He's not wrong to say that he's not meant, he's not supposed to control your emotions. You're saying that your amygdala gets into a tailspin and then enclose your entire day, but that's not his responsibility, that's ours, right? Like if we're getting dysregulated, we can't say, "Well, you did this and it caused my entire day." Well, then we're not taking accountability and ownership of our own life and we're avoiding actually getting deeper to say, "Then is this right connection? Is this person supporting me in the ways that I need? Is this person holding space for me? Is this person deflecting? Or are they taking accountability? Are they projecting it onto me?" That's really important, but then I feel like that's kind of what's happening here,

• 26:45Sabrina Zohar?

  is that you're making it, "Well, you didn't support me in the way that I want, so my day was ruined." And it's like, "Okay, but what's our accountability and responsibility, right? Did we ask maybe what they're going through? Are we understanding that?" Like again, I'm not saying anyone's right or wrong, but I just want to point out as I'm reading along, there are some things that I will say, "Fuck yes," and then there's some stuff I'm going, "I don't, I don't think that's their responsibility." I think the fact that this person you felt wasn't emotionally there, that's one thing, right? I think that's valid and you have every right to say, "Moving forward, could you do this? Could you do this?" Like giving tangible stuff, but putting onto them that when they do something or try to get off the phone, that you're in a tailspin, it's like, "Okay, but that's ours to emotionally regulate." I've had that, I've had that with Ryan where I'm like, "Hey, I felt really dismissed." It felt like you were trying to get off the phone and he was like, "Well, but..." And I was like, "Eh eh, don't fucking try to defend yourself.

• 27:30Sabrina Zohar?

  Could you maybe validate my emotions and feelings for a second?" And he'll stop and you're like, "Yeah, you're right, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to do that." And I'm like, "Okay, cool, moving forward, here's what I need from you." And that's it, that's the conversation. If you can't have that conversation, that's a different story, right? So let's get, keep going. So he says, "I gaslight him somehow, but the fact is, he gaslights me that actually he did say something supportive, but assuming he did, why did I wake up feeling crappy and alone?" No one's gaslighting anybody. I was like, "What is the terminology here? How is he gaslighting you?" What he's saying is, "This is how I'm supporting you." Maybe we need to say curiosity. Curiosity, you're both now feeling like the other person's gaslighting the other person. It's like, whoa, whoa, all right, we've lost the plot. He says he wants the issue resolved because according to him, I have blown up at him before, which I dispute as I'm usually the calm one in the listener, where he is typically the

• 28:15Sabrina Zohar?

  more sour one in the relationship. A heavy drinker, a box of wine a week, smoker and very control freak, although being from the east coast, I'm definitely the more feisty one. So again, why are you with this person? I don't really understand. You said in the beginning, "We decided after three years that we're meant for each other." Based on what? This person doesn't seem like they're taking accountability in the way that you need, which is valid, but then there's now feeling like you're not taking accountability. This is where it gets confusing because I don't fucking know. I'm hearing your side, I'm not hearing their side, and then the truth is somewhere in the middle. And so I'm just playing devil's advocate. You know that, I'm playing devil's advocate. When we're together, it's sort of wonderful. Huh? We're super intimate, we have fun and create great memories, but at the same time, when he gets into his sort of teacher mode, he switches off emotional availability, which bugs the crap out of me, as one just wants love and smooth sailing and marriage and housing kids.

• 29:00Sabrina Zohar?

  Okay, no, no, I'm sorry, that is wildly unrealistic. You want smooth sailing, it's like, that's not a relationship. That could be the issue. Is that you think that like any, any sort of human out of this person means, well, but that's not how it should be. Okay, but you also are saying you're feisty and you do the... He's saying, "I feel like you attack me." It's like, are you listening to what they're also saying too? It's not just our experience. Like, if Ryan was like, "Hey, man, I feel like you're always jumping down my throat," I'd have to stop and go, "Oh, oh, okay, could you share some examples? I'd love to understand what I'm doing because maybe I'm not aware of it." Right? Like, that's where I'm saying, like, there's a lot of projecting happening on both sides. I don't know if anybody's being honest here. He literally said last night that he's a hard person to love, as am I. All right, so you both have your shit.

• 29:43Sabrina Zohar?

  And when I asked if this whole thing is a stack of cards, he said, "We're a granite, on a granite foundation," whatever that means, I don't know what the fuck that means. But I'm over the whole thing. I learned I need to express my needs and better. I understand he's there for me despite not appearing to be, but I'm sort of way past beating the dead horse of the subject matter and it being the focal point of our conversation days later. While I do hyper-focus on him sometimes, I'm way more chill when he is chill too. You're hypervigilant. That's hypervigilance right there. Your mood, your mood is being altered, like, it's also like signs of codependency, and I'm not saying you are codependent, but when our mood is determined about how someone else is, then you're not taking control of your life. Like, you're not, then you're not making choices for yourself. You're saying, "Well, when he's cool, I'm cool, but when he's not, I'm not." And it's like, okay. He says he doesn't want to have to teach me how to regulate my emotions.

• 30:27Sabrina Zohar?

  I don't need his fucking instructions. I'm not his school, his kid in school. I regulate them just fine for being a salty east coast kid from Philly. But you're not. You're not. I say that with love as a salty fucking New Yorker. You're not regulating your emotions. You're projecting them onto him. You're saying you need to be responsible. You need to do this. You need to do this. I had a bad day. Okay, but you're allowed to have two conflicting thoughts that you didn't love the way he supported you, but that you still were able to get through your day because you're a fucking adult. Right? Like even the way you answer that, like, I don't need fucking instructions. It's like, that's feeling triggered and that's okay, but maybe he's hitting something here. And maybe you're hitting something for him too. Right? Maybe you both are teaching each other something. Yet at the same time, he totally contradicts himself when he says it's super common for teachers in the world of education to have their spouses tell them to essentially quit talking to them like they're in class. That I get. I understand that. My friend does that.

• 31:11Sabrina Zohar?

  He's a therapist and he has got, he has people tell him like, stop therapizing me. And he's like, I'm not being a therapist. I'm just, I'm implementing the stuff I teach people. Right? And like, that's the thing is, we can all get into that. So I think we can hold the two conflicting thoughts that this person's also saying that he could do that, and that bothers you. But that doesn't mean we still can't learn from it. You see what I'm saying? He has mentioned before that he avoided relationships in the past because he doesn't want to have to deal with that. So what makes him so, what makes him so special? That's the profession he chose and he also wants a relationship with me and apparently the issue is super common. So what makes him think he is so special that he gets a free pass and not dealing with that element in his personal relationship with me? I feel like this is a phase he's going through, but I fear a bit this is to be the unwinding of our great relationship. I don't think it is, but any feedback is helpful. Again, keep the content coming. Chuck. This was Ryan's note.

• 31:56Sabrina Zohar?

  This one looks chaotic on the surface, but underneath it's one sentence. When I don't feel emotionally met, my body panics. That's exactly what I feel. I feel like, and it's valid, right? But when I don't feel emotionally met, you know what I do? I go regulate my nervous system and I have a conversation with my partner and I talk about the things that I need. I don't sit there and project, I don't sit there and spiral. I'm not doing that because I have to take radical accountability and ownership of my life. I'm not understanding what this amazing relationship, you're saying this wonderful relationship, which one? Which one? I, I, I, you didn't give me anything that shows that you're in this wonderful relationship besides the idea of them. Because you've put it that after four months, we decided that we're meant for each other. Or after three years of knowing each other. But that's the thing, you're not actually seeing this person for who they are, you're seeing them for who you want them to be. You're not showing up in the way that I want, you're trying to like regulate your nervous

• 32:41Sabrina Zohar?

  system by controlling them. Welcome to anxious attachment. For all my anxious attachers out there, you think that you're just communicating, no, you're trying to control the outcome because I'm uncomfortable, which means my environment needs to change, instead of I'm uncomfortable, so I need to regulate my nervous system and decide if this is an environment that's right for me, because I get to make a choice. I see this with the trolls that leave comments, "You need to stop doing this, and you need to stop doing that, and I don't like the way you do this." I'm sorry, who the fuck are you? You're telling me, you're telling, that you're projecting onto who does, who, what is, he makes him so special? Why does he get to say that? But what about you? So you're saying that the way you see things is right and he's wrong, but no one's right or wrong. I think you're both having an experience. I think this person does sound like they have a lot of unresolved shit. I'm not gonna say that, I'm not gonna sit here and be like, "It's all you." No!

• 33:25Sabrina Zohar?

  Both of you are playing into this dynamic. And that's the reality, and that's the issue I have with a lot of the anxious attachers, myself included, when I was in my heyday, was I genuinely believe, it's not me, it's them, it's not me. No, no, it's them that's doing all of this, and it's them that's the problem. Then we're avoiding our own accountability. We're avoiding looking at ourselves and going, "What are my choices?" You're saying, "I'm worried this is the end of this wonderful relationship crumbling." What wonderful relationship if this person can't even be there for you in the ways that you need? Are you being there for the ways that you need? Because instead, you're outsourcing the validation, and you're saying, "Well, I'm having a bad day, so you need to support me." Instead of saying, "You know what? Maybe this person's not someone I can co-regulate with. Maybe this person's actually not the partner that I thought they were gonna be, because I don't need that type of support. Maybe somebody else does, and maybe somebody else, they're great for that." And it's expressing that of like, "Okay, well, if you don't feel like you can support

• 34:09Sabrina Zohar?

  me in the ways that I need, you don't feel like you wanna do this, I'm feeling like I'm struggling, then what, what relationship are we fighting so hard for?" I'm not saying break up, but I'm saying half the hard conversations. I say this all with love, but I think a lot of the people with the anxiety feel like they do know wrong, and it's everybody else, and that's the issue. That's the problem I have. And it's the same with the avoidant of like, "I don't do anything wrong, it's everybody else." It's like, do you notice how it's the same side of the coin, just the other version of it? That it's the same core beliefs, it's the same way of handling things, we just handle them in different ways. One is outward, one goes inward. One deflects, and the other one projects.

• 34:42Sabrina Zohar?

  Right? Like, one of them is saying, "No, it's you that needs to do that." And the other one is saying, "No, but you're the one doing this." And it's like, to me, I think both of you guys are going back into your wounds. I think both of you guys are going back into a place that isn't necessarily conducive for a healthy and secure relationship, because part of a healthy and secure relationship is two adults that have emotional regulation, that know how to be in their bodies, that know... And it's okay to have moments where you don't, you're a human. But, all I read in that email was, "Everything is the other person's fault." But you've done... I'm good, I've done the work, I'm healed, I'm good, I'm good. But I can be feisty, but I can be this, but I can be salty. And it's like, so we're acknowledging that you can do that, but we're not taking accountability that that's what we're doing, that maybe that's the part that the other person's picking up on. Again, I don't know the other person's perspective, so I'm just going based off this. I don't know, right?

• 35:25Sabrina Zohar?

  And I only know what's being written in. But I see this often, is this idea that the anxious attachers do no wrong, and it's, at least I'm communicating, it's like, no, you're putting a lot onto the other partner, and we can't be surprised when other people are like, "It feels like a lot." Or, "I'm not meant to do that, I'm not meant to always be there for you." Like, dude, you gotta be able to take care of yourself as well. Like, if I can't answer you for an afternoon because I'm at work, it can't be that the whole day is hell in a handbasket. I'll talk to you when I get home tonight, and we can have a conversation about this. Again, if that's not the type of partner you have, then what are you fighting so hard for? I don't think you want to face the reality of who you both are as people. And that's okay, that's oftentimes why we stay in relationships. But I will say this, the advice I have is to start taking accountability of our part in this, and to start looking at theirs, and to hold them accountable for their part,

• 36:10Sabrina Zohar?

  but to be subjective and objective about it, right? To remove yourself from it, and not be so in it, and regulate, and learn to regulate, to be in charge of your emotions, to be able to say, "What's mine to own and what's theirs." That's, I think, what's important. But I understand, like, it sucks, and you're allowed to be bummed that that person wasn't there for you, then you have a conversation with them, and then you see if that's a partner that you want, if they're willing to even talk to you about it. That's why I'm saying, I don't think that you're wrong for being upset, but I think it's the way that we're handling it, because if your body doesn't feel safe because you're not getting the attunement that you need, it can't always be on them. Eventually, you have to say, "Okay, well then, one, is this the right relationship for me? And then how am I showing up for me?" Because that's what I'm saying, might not be, this might not be your person, I don't know. I would ask you what makes you think it is just because you have fun. By the way, spoiler alert.

• 36:55Sabrina Zohar?

  Having a healthy and secure relationship doesn't just mean that you sit on the couch at night and watch Netflix and have a good time. Healthy and secure relationships mean you feel safe to express yourself. It means that there is a safe space for you to have hard conversations. It means that you feel seen, heard, and understood by your partner. That the way that they love and support you works and the way that you love and support them works for them as well. That's part of being in a healthy and secure relationship. It's not just that when the good times are good, I love that. It's like, it's also taking the bad and the storms and being able to weather them together. That's why I said when you were like, well, it should be smooth sailing in marriage and kids. It's like, I'm sorry, what? What Pollyanna fucking book did you read that everything is smooth sailing? What it is, is that you have a partner that you can explore tough conversations with, but it's not necessarily smooth sailing. It's that you weather the storms together. So I hope that was helpful. And I love you. And I say those a lot. I hope you guys know. I'm not trying to be a dick, but I am trying to

• 37:41Sabrina Zohar?

  slap a little bit of reality because that's what I needed when I was back in the day. And that's what my therapist would offer me and my sister. So, all right, babes, that's it. We have a little bit of a bite sized nugget episode today because I'm also realizing people don't really listen to longer than like a 35 minute episode. And that's okay. I think we cover a lot in these times and I want to be able to just give you guys a little bit, answer some questions. Like I said, the show is only as good as the questions you submit. So please, please send them to [email protected]. Don't forget to rate and review the show, leave a comment, share it with a friend if you think this would be helpful for them. And thank you for being here. Thank you for allowing me to guide you guys and thank you for trusting me with this stuff. All right, babies, until next time.

• 38:24Speaker 00

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• 39:02Speaker 05

  Midlife crisis. I'm not ready for that.

• 39:05Speaker 06

  He's back.

• 39:06Speaker 05

  I'm older. I'm wiser.

• 39:09Speaker 06

  And sharper than ever.

• 39:11Speaker 05

  Things are gonna get messy. But if I can't believe in myself, I can't believe in anything.

• 39:18Speaker 06

  Dexter Resurrection. New season now streaming on the Paramount Plus Premium Plan.