The TIC TAC at Twenty - The Most Consequential UFO of All Time? - Guest : CDR David Fravor

November 14th marks the 20th anniversary of what may be the most consequential UFO encounter of all time—the Tic Tac case. Sophisticated sensors on ships and planes in the USS Nimitz carrier group detected incursions by unknown objects over nearly two weeks. On the 15th, Navy radar operators finally locked onto one of the objects, and David Fravor, commander of the Black Aces squadron, was sent to investigate. Fravor’s stunning eyewitness encounter would later become a cornerstone of the largest acknowledged UFO investigation ever funded by the U. S. government, eventually inspiring renewed global interest in the UFO mystery. The consequences are still unfolding. To mark the 20th anniversary of the Tic Tac encounter, Dave Fravor sat down with Jeremy and George to recall what he saw that day, adding details never before made public. “All the king’s horses and all the king’s men…” ••• Watch the three-part UFO docuseries titled UFO REVOLUTION on TUBI here : tubitv.com/series/300002259 ••• GOT A TIP? Reach out to us at [email protected] For breaking news, follow Corbell & Knapp on all social media. Extras and bonuses from the episode can be found at WeaponizedPodcast.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Your sausage McMuffin with egg didn't change, your receipt did. The sausage McMuffin with egg extra value meal includes a hash brown and a small coffee for just $5. Only at McDonald's for a limited time.

• 0:12Speaker 01

  Price and participation may vary. Promotion pricing may be lower than meal pricing.

• 0:16Speaker 02

  Hey Spotify listeners. When you travel with American Airlines, you'll enjoy comfort and convenience at every altitude. Before takeoff, unwind in the Admirals Club Lounge with curated self-serve offerings of hearty bites and refreshments. In flight, stay connected with high-speed Wi-Fi. Sponsored by AT&T. Your journey is designed to feel easy from the moment you check in to the moment you arrive. No matter where you're going, American gets you there. Book now at AA.com.

• 0:41Speaker 03

  In this week's episode of Weaponized...

• 0:43George Knapp?

  The last time Congress had a hearing, David Fravor was one of the witnesses.

• 0:47Speaker 03

  So he talked with us. Featuring a special interview with Commander David Fravor.

• 0:52George Knapp?

  Weeks ago, Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick came out with a public statement. He's, you know, he's the head of, was the head of Arrow, the latest incarnation of the Pentagon UFO program. And he came out with a statement that basically all cases have been explained, including the Tic Tac.

• 1:07Speaker 05

  They, they, they want to take our event and then they want to talk about the sensor. Well, it could have been this and that, it could have been that. I said, well, it wasn't that. I go, and oh, by the way, four of us interacted with it. We saw it with our eyes. And I said this to Congress, you know, because, you know, we all know that the Air Force is building the B-21. And I would say, well, if you're building a B-21, but you have something like the Tic Tac that is, does what it does, then why, why do you need that?

• 1:33Speaker 03

  Secrets, cover-ups, and strange phenomena.

• 1:35Jeremy Corbell?

  UFOs and ideas that challenge reality itself. All these mysteries, all this time. Are we ever going to get to the bottom of these?

• 1:43George Knapp?

  My name is George Knapp. I dig into news stories that others can't or won't.

• 1:48Jeremy Corbell?

  I'm Jeremy Corbell, and for some reason, people tell me things they probably shouldn't. And this is Weaponized.

• 2:01George Knapp?

  This is Weaponized. We recorded an episode of Weaponized a couple of days ago.

• 2:06Jeremy Corbell?

  Yes, sir.

• 2:07George Knapp?

  This is sort of a re-introduction to that episode, which we have not aired yet. Because there have been some subsequent events that have happened, developments that require a little fine tuning, we did an interview with a guy named Dave Fravor, who is, in my estimation, and yours, the most important witness to the most consequential UFO case of all time.

• 2:28Jeremy Corbell?

  CNN, NBC, CBS, MSNBC, News Nation, like, everybody is after him. And he doesn't do a lot of interviews, but he'll tell you about that. New York Times, after him.

• 2:40George Knapp?

  Again.

• 2:41Jeremy Corbell?

  Again. So, he talked with us openly, freely, honestly, and in ways that, like, people haven't seen him talk, I don't think.

• 2:51George Knapp?

  Well, the anniversary's coming up. November 14th is the date that the Tic-Tac video, the video image that's now going all over the world, was recorded. That case was the central exhibit A in the New York Times story, December 2017, that told the world about the secret government investigations of UFOs. It was the centerpiece. And why it was so important is because it was so well documented. Dave Fravor being the central witness, but not the only witness, being such a credible guy, that his voice is maybe the most important in the most important and consequential UFO incident in history

• 3:32George Knapp?

  because of the effect it had. Using the Tic-Tac as sort of the linchpin of that New York Times story gave gravitas, gave substance to the idea that there's things flying around bedeviling our military that have been actually well documented, and the public hasn't been told about it. Dave Fravor came forward and told about it. I'm sure he, at times, regrets that. But he's never gone quite as far as he did in this interview. Since we recorded this episode of Weaponized with Dave, Commander Fravor,

• 4:04Jeremy Corbell?

  Yeah.

• 4:05George Knapp?

  There've been some subsequent developments that we're going to talk about on the flipside of the conversation, the first episode that we recorded with him.

• 4:12Jeremy Corbell?

  You think. That the Tic Tac UFO case and Commander Fravor in particular, although we've had Commander Underwood on a show before, you do think for some reason that it's historically important from your 40 plus years of journalism on UFOs, starting with Bob Lazar and gravity amplification and how these craft might move and what the potential might be for the power and propulsion, which could be an issue of weapons of mass destruction and national security. For some reason, you believe the Tic Tac UFO case is somehow by its effect, to be your own words, important for our audience. Yeah, can you just drill that home for me?

• 4:55George Knapp?

  This happened in 2004. It happened right in front of the most sophisticated sensors in the world, the USS Nimitz Carrier Group, multiple warships doing maneuvers off the coast of Southern California, the most sophisticated sensors, the best trained aviators with top secret security clearances, flying the best warplanes in the world. This object and other objects like it were detected on multiple radars on the ships. They were detected on multiple sensors in the air, not only the planes, but other kinds of sensors. They were seen with the eyes of these aviators, who are the best trained aviators in the world. They know what a balloon is, they know what a, you know, another plane looks like, they

• 5:40George Knapp?

  know what birds are, they know this was something different because of what it did. We did not have the technology to do what the Tic Tac did in 2004. We do not have the technology to do what the Tic Tac did back in 2004 today. So it's a key case. It's also a key case because of it was included in that New York Times expose, but as we know, we talked to Dave Fravor a long time and put out things about the Tic Tac case before the New York Times did. We'll get into that, but we should probably jump into the episode that we recorded, talk with Dave Fravor, and then we'll come back and chew on it a little bit more.

• 6:25Speaker 05

  Thanks Jeremy. It's flattering. There's a lot of guys just like me. There's a lot of guys better than me.

• 6:31Speaker 05

  I just happened to be in, some would say, the wrong place at the wrong time and here we are 20 years later, still talking about it, which, you know, like I used to say, it was a great, it was a great story to my friends over beers, so it was never a secret, but here we are, so, let's, let's, let's do this.

• 6:49George Knapp?

  I mean, 20 years later, you couldn't imagine people would still be talking about this, or that it would have had such a huge impact, could you?

• 6:55Speaker 05

  No, no, it actually, you know, to get to the rest of the story and how it started coming out, so Jeremy knows Paco Chirichi, so it actually started with a friend of mine, who I did my first Night Trap with, Matt. So Matt and I were sitting, Matt was working for Apple, we were having dinner with his engineer, and he said, "Hey, you flew a lot more than me, what's coolest thing you ever saw?" And I just looked at him, we were at Donovan's in San Diego. I said, "Oh, they chased a UFO." And he just kind of looked at me like, "What?" And so I gave him the story. He immediately told Paco, who's a mutual friend, we were all on the USS Ranger in 1991 together.

• 7:34Speaker 05

  Paco's kind of into this stuff, and Paco had called me, and he said, he had left a voicemail, "How are you going to call me?" So I called him that evening, because I was working, and he's like, "Oh, wait, wait, wait, I gotta put you on speakerphone." I said, "You got what?" He goes, "I gotta put you on speakerphone." I said, "Why are you going to put me on speakerphone?" He said, "Oh, I'm having a dinner party, I want you to tell the story." So I, I talked to him, and then he kept asking to do, because he had, I think it's Fidersweep, his blog, that he writes. He said, "Hey, can I write about this?" And at first I was like, "No, no, no." Same thing I did you, Jeremy, no, you know, I just, I didn't want to be in a blog, you know, and and it was right about the time that Alex, the other pilot, had called me up and said, "Hey,

• 8:17Speaker 05

  have you been contacted about the Tic Tacs?" This was about 2009.

• 8:22Speaker 05

  And I said, not since the, um, you know, not since we left the shipping stock. And, um, or no, not since I did my, I'd actually met someone who did the, the whole A-Tip thing was probably because of me, because I have a, I was working, I had a friend and I said to her, I said, hey, can you find anything out about this? Because she's kind of, you know, she was still in the know. And then I was called by Jay, which you guys know Jay, um, and Jay is the one that actually started the whole report in 2009. He called me at work. I'd, I'd retired since, it was about 2009 when he did the report. So, um, I, I had had a copy of the report, which he had sent me, but he said, hey, don't,

• 9:07Speaker 05

  don't pass this around, don't give this to anybody. And I said, okay. So I read the, which I called unofficial official report, which you were given by Harry Reid, Senator Reid, gave it to George, so George knows and Jeremy knows exactly what I'm talking about. You can find it on the internet. And at the time, a lot of it was redacted, I'm pretty sure Senator Reid gave you an unredacted, so you got all the names and everything that was in it. So, um, Paco kept asking and asking, so I said, okay, here, and I let him read the report, and he wrote his Fighter Suite blog, which of course Jeremy read, Jeremy got a hold of Paco, Paco called me and said, hey, there's a guy that wants to talk to you. And it happened a lot, and for some reason Jeremy won the lottery, because I said, just pass him my phone number and let him call me.

• 9:51Speaker 05

  So he called me, and yes, I'm very skeptical of press or anyone trying to do it, um, because everyone now has a YouTube channel, or they're trying to do their, their podcasts, or whatever. And, um, and so I ended up, Jeremy and I, as you know, George, Jeremy and I talked a lot, like I would, he would call, it usually takes me, where I work, it takes me with traffic, it can be up to an hour or so, he would call me and I'd, I'd be in my truck just driving north home and, and we would just have these conversations. And for a while, he begged to, can I record these, can I record these? And I said, no, you cannot record these, which I knew he was out in California, so we can't go against that, because it's illegal in California to record someone.

• 10:33Speaker 05

  So, we, we, we had a lot of conversations about stuff, and, um, and then it was kind of quiet, there was really nothing going on, until Alex called me in 2016 and asked me if I had been contacted, and I said, not since 2009. And she put me in touch with Lou Elizondo. And the same thing, Lou begged me to talk and I was talking to him and he had got out because Jeremy had sent me the link of To The Stars. I looked at that, I called Lou, I said, "Dude, what's going on?" I mean, I talked to him a couple of weeks prior, he was still at the Pentagon. And he said, "Hey, I left, it was the only way I could make a statement," which I totally understand that sometimes the best way to make a point is to use your feet.

• 11:14Speaker 05

  And so we started the, you know, that relationship, and I talked to him and Tom DeLonge, and the next thing you know, he's asked me to do New York Times, and I told him no, probably way more times than I told Jeremy no. And then I finally ended up doing it, because it's the only way I was going to get him off my back, so, you know, that came out, and then you guys know, you know, after December, what, 17th of 2017, or somewhere around there, the whole world changed, as far as UFOs. I mean, that article between the front page on the ATIP program, which brought a lot of the other stuff out, and then the second article that was tied to that, which was

• 11:58Speaker 05

  myself and Jim Slate talked about, and from that point on, you know, you underestimate the impact of a New York Times article, which I did, and I'm like, "Eh, it's nothing." And that thing hit the airwaves, here's a funny story. They had told me, Helene had called me and said, "Hey, the article's going to be in the Sunday paper." And I said, "Okay." And she said, "Dave, are you ready for this?" I said, "Yeah, it's no big deal." I said, "I think I'll be fine." Little did I know that the guy who took the pictures for the article came to my house, actually put in the caption where I live, and I was not happy about that, and I called Helene, and she's like, "Dave, I'm so sorry." But, anyway, so the article hits, and she told me, "It's going to be Sunday, but it'll hit the airwaves at 2 o'clock Eastern Standard Time, it'll hit the internet."

• 12:44Speaker 05

  So I wasn't even thinking about it. You know, hey, tomorrow's Sunday, it's literally 2:15. And I get a call from my buddy Tom, who used to fly with me. And I said, hey dude, what's up? And he said, you are an effing idiot. That was literally, I started the phone call with me and I said, I said, uh, what are you talking about? He says, dude, I just came in and I turned on my, you know, iPad, cause I was doing lunch and I'm just gonna see what's going on in the world. He goes, and you're all over it. I'm like, what? He goes, what did you do? I said, well, the guy at the Pentagon asked me to do the article and I kept saying no and then I finally did. And, and then it all, you know, it started to snowball. Jeremy, I were talking more, I got to meet you, we did McMinnville, which was really fun.

• 13:28Speaker 05

  It's my only public appearance, besides the congressional hearing, um, a year, what's now, it's about 15 months ago. Uh, and I have not talked to, I will say this, I have not talked to anyone for public dissemination since I talked at Congress. I literally got escorted out of the side door by the Capitol Police and I got to my car, cause I had to go to work. And I didn't really wanna talk to anyone anyway. And, and I've been kinda silent. I talked to one, one show, the John Oliver Show, his, uh, one of his assistants had called to make sure that the 60 Minutes stuff was correct. So it wasn't, I wasn't on the show, I didn't wanna be on the show. But I, you know, that's where I told you, Jeremy, that I, I, all I asked was, yeah, it's correct and just please, you know, you can, you can make jokes, but the, the topic

• 14:13Speaker 05

  is serious. And I really feel that the topic that we're talking about is serious. And I thought he did a great job. He made fun of the stuff that goes on and, but he, he kept the overall mood of the thing that this is a serious topic, stop making jokes about it. So, and then here we are today, finally on the Web Nice Podcast, that, uh, you know, I was waiting for and, you know, we pushed it off for 15 months after the hearing, so.

• 14:36Speaker 07

  You got me.

• 14:37Speaker 03

  The following is a coast to coast interview with George Knapp and Jeremy Corbell from May 21st, 2017, seven months before the 2017 UAP New York Times article was published.

• 14:50George Knapp?

  Let's talk about this case you're working on, and I know there are limits on what you can say. The cone of silence has been dropped over this thing, so you don't want to tip somebody off that you're on to it, you don't want to muddy the waters, but you do need help. So, give us the broad strokes of this thing.

• 15:05Speaker 07

  Okay, well, this investigation you're speaking about, it's not one of the films I have out, it's not a case I've ever talked about, but I am going to appeal for help from the audience, because it's a profoundly important case, but it has a massive cone of silence and secrecy put over it because this case is a developing story, but it's a military, UFO, and USO event that I've been digging into. Basically, off the coast of California in 2004, there was an event, and there was an event where there was a deployment, and there were military pilots who engaged an object, or a series of objects, actually, over a series of days.

• 15:48Speaker 07

  As you said, I can't, I don't want to get into the specifics right now, because I don't want this to get out of control, I want to make sure to try to find direct witnesses, and try to find exactly the facts. So, I can tell you a few specifics about it.

• 16:04George Knapp?

  You want to tell enough for the people who had witnessed it to recognize it and then reach out if they're willing to talk to you. So, there were hundreds of people who saw this, right?

• 16:13Speaker 07

  Well, visually saw it, it is different, there was one pilot in particular, and I have talked with him, but he has given me no authorization to talk about that, but there was an individual who was within 100 feet of this thing, and engaged it, it actually actively jammed his weapon systems and radar systems. I told you, one day, this story is going to be the biggest, and you can fact check me and tell me and our audience if I'm lying, I told you, this is going to be the biggest UFO story of all time to date.

• 16:47Jeremy Corbell?

  And that you're at the center of it and it's never going away and that you will be outed, that you will not be outed by me.

• 16:52Speaker 05

  That's, that's, that's correct, Jeremy. It's, well, you know, and I appreciate it, especially with you and George and then, you know, the, the TTS folks. Cause you know, I, I told Tom when he had come out with him and Lou and they, they were, they actually filmed, cause Tom was working, you know, on doing movies. And I said, look, you hear, cause I, you know, you gotta sign the release. And I said, this is only for you. This, you cannot release this without my permission. And it ended up on someone else's, used it in, in their video. And I actually called their lawyers and said, you need to have that taken down like ASAP, or I'm gonna call my lawyer. Because it's just, you know, you can't use someone's likeness. But the, the, and this is why, you know, and, and you've been really good, both of you, helping me filter through all the stuff that comes in because there's a lot out there that wants to talk to you. And I have the, probably

• 17:37Speaker 05

  thousands of emails to prove that. But, um, um, the, uh, sorry, uh, someone just told me that they're watching, Trump gave me a shout out, Rogan gave me a shout out when he was interviewing Trump. I was gonna tell you. Um, but, uh, it was, you, you guys have been really good. And Jeremy, you know this because I was very, I wanted to be very protective of the other people that were involved in this because there are still people that really haven't come out publicly. I think people know who they are. Uh, like my backseater, uh, nudes, uh, I didn't give his name out. I mean, it's out there, you know, and he's talked to a few people, but, you know, because they were still active duty, like Alex at the time was still active

• 18:19Speaker 05

  duty. And we protected her until she retired. And then she actually came out in the press, you know, when we did, uh, one of the, one of the shows. Um, but because, because of that. And you guys, you know, hats off to you that you were very good at, you knew the names, you never let them out. And, you know, Tom was that way, Lou was that way, uh, Chris Mellon was that way. That, that whole team, you know, Steve Justice, uh, the, you know, folks that I actually conversed with, uh, were really good. And then being able to sound stuff off like, hey, I, I just got called by this or that. You know, and there are a few things I did when it first hit, like, ah, okay, that I would not do

• 19:00Speaker 05

  again. Uh, and you know, and part of it is like the TV shows, because you don't have, you don't have editing rights. Although some of them, like, I will tell you, like, when I did the phenomenon with James Fox, James was great. He sends me, literally, the clip before he puts it in, he's like, "This is what I'm thinking. Is this good with you? You know, are you good with what I'm putting in?" And I go, "Yeah, I'm good with that." You know, the TV shows don't do that. You know, a lot of them where you spend two hours with people in your house, and you're giving them all the information, and then you got, like, two minutes. I'm fine with two minutes. I'm fine with no minutes. But you can't control how they cut and edit that. You know, and it's, you know, it's kind of funny.

• 19:43Speaker 05

  It's like, it's like when we did McMinnville, you know, and Vice, HBO Vice had called me because they wanted to do it, and I'm like, and I was, I actually said, "Well, let me think about it," because I didn't want to, but I called the McMinnville, the folks at McMinniman's, and I said, "Hey, there's an opportunity to get you guys some publicity for UFO Fest." And they were like, "Will you do it?" And that's, that's literally the reason that I allowed Vice to go to McMinnville with us, because it was, given some publicity in McMinniman's. I personally didn't want it, and we all ended up being, and it was pretty funny. There's, we have memes all over my office in one of the areas that I work that are pretty comical about that.

• 20:22Speaker 07

  This message is sponsored by Raycon. It's almost Black Friday, and this year, the decision is easy because you get up to 50% off site-wide, no overthinking it. Raycon just upgraded my favorite earbuds, the Everyday Open Earbuds. They now adjust in two directions for a better fit, and have a real button for volume and skipping tracks. I can't wait for them to come in so I can wear them for everything, work, podcasts, just like winding down at night. They sit just outside your ear canal, so you get really clear sound, but you can actually hear what's happening around you, too. That awareness is perfect for tackling your fitness goals safely and for becoming a techno-terrestrial without sealing yourself into a sensory deprivation tank.

• 21:07Speaker 07

  If a craft starts folding spacetime over your jog, you'll hear it. And if it's just a raccoon raiding the bins, you'll hear that, too. Either way, congratulations, you've made first contact. With better audio. Raycon has over three million customers and the sound quality is just as good as the way more expensive brands. Eight hours of playtime, thirty-five hours with the charging case and a thirty day guarantee if you don't like them. Go to BuyRaycon.com/weaponizedopen to get up to fifty percent off sitewide during Raycon's Black Friday sales. That's BuyRaycon.com/weaponizedopen. Thanks to Raycon for sponsoring and see you on the next Weaponized Podcast.

• 22:15Speaker 05

  You know, it was, it was a fun weekend and it was really because you and George went the year before and I saw it and I was like, you know, and then Bob came and, and you know, Bob and his wife and my wife and we, you know, we're hanging out. We had a great time. It was great meeting Bob. I think he's a, he's a wonderful human being and you guys know how I feel about him as far as that goes. And, and for all of us, it was great, you know, and they kept us away from town. So it's, I mean, that's, it's stuff like that was fun, but the, the rest of it is kind of like, eh, you know, you know, which is why I really haven't talked to anyone in the last fifteen months, like no one publicly.

• 22:48Speaker 07

  Well, I, I remember trying to convince you that we were gonna have fun. Like, I'm like, dude, look, you're gonna get on stage, you're gonna be with George Knapp and me and, and we've kept your trust and we trust you and you're gonna have fun though. And I remember that being like this, this heavy lift for me that I was asking you to be on stage with a bunch of UFO, you know, participants, like people that, that are interested in this. And if I recall, it was like, you're like, okay, I'm gonna have fun, Jeremy.

• 23:18Speaker 05

  You know, to go there and, you know, I don't think my wife realized, you know, because we were sitting there getting ready for, you guys were, Bob was doing his thing and then you were gonna show the movie. And we were sitting in the top, in the very back of the center, you know, and, you know, I had a person walk by and just kept staring at me. Walked by like three or four times and then stopped. My wife's sitting next to me thinking, you know, what the heck? And he's like, I know who you are. And You know, and it was funny stuff like that, but it was, I remember walking up, it was the very last one we did, it was the panel. It was, you know, it was George was on my left and Bob was on my right and then you were kinda in the middle. And Bob and I were walking out there with our alienator IPA. And I said, I said, well, Bob, I'm pretty sure all the questions are coming to you. And he looked at me and he says, I don't think so.

• 24:03Speaker 05

  And they started hitting me pretty hard. And I was, and Bob's laughing next to me. And then they used the term ufology, which I'm not a UFO, you guys know this, I'm not a UFO guy. I leaned over to, I leaned over to George and I go, hey, is that really a word? And he goes, oh, ufology? I said, yeah. He goes, yeah, he goes, you're definitely not a UFO person. I said, no, I'm not. So it was.

• 24:26Jeremy Corbell?

  Do, do you, do you believe me now? Do you finally believe me that this is never going away? That what you saw and what you engaged that day, a UFO for the United States of America? Do you believe me now? This is never going away and that it is important?

• 24:48Speaker 05

  Well, yeah, but like, like, you know, since I started telling this story after it happened and the story is the exact same, you can pull up. You know, someone, obviously I'll get fact checked on this and someone's gonna go, well, you said it was this altitude and then this time it was 500 feet different. It's like, give me a break. I always say approximately anyway. So it is what it is. But the, the core part of the story is the exact same. It's never changed. It hasn't been embellished. It is what it is, you know, it's like I got asked by Helene, you know, like, you know, and I've also been asked by other people, like, if you have weapons, what would you do? I go, well, it wasn't threatening. It never threatened us. It was just to me, I have that, at that point, you know, inside the cockpit, you know, I was about 3,600 hours. I was pretty comfortable on the jet.

• 25:32Speaker 05

  Which, oh, by the way, if you don't, that's a lot. That's, that's, that's significant. I have friends with a lot more. I have friends with a lot less. But for flying tactical fighters, that, you know, it's, that's pretty good. And I never, I was never out, so I was always current.

• 25:45Speaker 05

  But at that point, you're comfortable. So I'm like, you know, and you see this and you have no idea what it is. We were all kind of freaked out looking at it. But I'm like, I wanted to see how close I could get. I was kind of bummed when it left because I was like, yeah, if I wasn't trying to do it harm, I was just trying to get really close to it. And, you know, we got relatively close, you know, with a year and a half mile of another airplane, you're getting pretty close. I mean, you can see stuff. So it was interesting that the story's out there. It is what it is. I mean, you guys have done a great job with it of talking about it. And it's just like Joe, when he talks about it, because I'll get texts all the time of, hey, Rogan's talking about you again. Like, hey, he brings

• 26:23Speaker 05

  you up, you know, because it's that credibility piece, you know, and it's like, you know, the good thing is, is, you know, among my peers, especially the folks I flew with, I went to a reunion in May with literally the best fighter pilots on the planet, from Vietnam all the way up. I mean, absolutely amazing aviators, which I would not put myself in the upper echelons of those folks I was with. But, you know, there's a ton of them. I mean, older guys were coming up to me, they knew the story. They're like, hey, you know, you did a great job here. They didn't come up and go, you're a nut job. And to me, that's

• 27:04Speaker 05

  the most important, that, you know, my peers who know me very well, know that I'm not nuts, know that I'm not crazy. And they knew what I was doing at that point and the position that I was in. So, you know, it's pretty good. And I told Congress the same thing 15 months ago, and they said, how were you treated? And, you know, and it went down the line, and I was the last. And, you know, obviously, David was not treated well for the stuff that he's been dealing with, Grush. But they got to me, and I said, you know, I literally said, I've been treated really well. I have not, people haven't said I'm a whack job. You know, we have fun with it, you know, but, you know, most of them, like, like I had a guy at work I was working with a lot, I work with closely. And then he never said anything to me. And then someone else, one of our, one of our government people

• 27:48Speaker 05

  just came in one day, he's laughing, goes, dude, you're on TV, I was watching with my wife, you pop up. It's probably Ancient Aliens. And he goes, I know that guy. And his wife's like, no, you don't. He goes, no, seriously. And he actually said, we're, you know, we meet.

• 28:04Speaker 05

  The guy I work with every day at work came up afterwards and he goes, "Yeah, I didn't want to say anything because they didn't know how you'd react." I said, "Well, you can ask me any question you want about it." I mean, I'm, you know, I'm not going to anchor down on it in the middle of a meeting, but if you want to grab me aside, because as you guys know, there's very, very curious people out there. Where we had a guy on the ship right after it happened that would constantly come to the table in the wardroom I'd be in, he'd be like, "Hey, skipper, is there anyone sitting here?" And I'd say, "Nah." And he, "You want to talk about that Tic Tac thing again, don't you?" He's like, "Yeah, I just, I can't get it out of my mind. It's just, I'm obsessed with it." So, there we go.

• 28:37George Knapp?

  Dave, a couple of weeks ago, Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick came out with a public statement. He's, you know, he's the head of, was the head of Arrow, the latest incarnation of the Pentagon UFO program. And he came out with a statement that basically all cases have been explained, including the Tic Tac. And he says, "You know, we haven't explained it yet, but if we only had more data, we could explain it." Let's get into that. You think he knows what he's talking about?

• 29:03Speaker 05

  No. No. I think, I think there's an urge, and not across, and I don't speak for the United States government, I want to say that, but I think there are some, there are some entities out there that want to put the genie back in the bottle. So they'll look to explain away, it's almost kind of the Blue Book stuff with, you know, it's swamp gas, where there was one in Michigan where they, has anyone ever seen swamp gas? Because I have not. And the fact that there were four of us, because I've heard some other people, I'm not even going to give them, I'm not even going to say their names, but, you know, PhDs that are running around that say stuff that, you know, it's always like, they, they, they want to take our event and then they want to talk about the sensor. Well, it could have been this and that, it could have been that. I said, "Well, it wasn't that."

• 29:47Speaker 05

  I go, "Oh, by the way, four of us interacted with it, we saw it with our eyes, and it was about, the pull thing's about five minutes long. By the time you get all the way around the circle, cut across, it's, once we get out to where the whitewater's at, we see a Tic Tac, it's about five minutes." They try and explain it away, but they never call us.

• 30:05Speaker 05

  You know, it's kinda like the, it's kinda like, you know, I had heard, you know, the Men in Black showed up to take tapes off of some of the platforms. Never came to talk to me. Then it was, I just heard recently, it wasn't Men in Black, it was men, uniformed Air Force guys came. You know, you know, and I know my peers never, the other COs and EXOs never said like, hey, did they come and get stuff from you? Or did they talk to you? I don't know. You know, and then there was a, you know, someone came out and said, well, you know, I'm not detracting this person or whatever wasn't in the Navy, but he's like, you know, I remember there was commotion and we got called up to the bridge and we were watching it live. Well, I can tell you right now that in 2004, on November 14th, that Super Hornet F-18s with AT flares did not have the ability

• 30:51Speaker 05

  to stream their video. It did not exist. There was no capability. So, anyone that says they sat and watched it live and it was 10 minutes long and it was all this is bull, you know what? Because literally the capabilities in the platform did not exist. There was a lot of them that were in the Navy. There were a lot of them that were on the right platforms, Nimitz, Princeton, whatever. They're tied to the battle group staff or wherever. I'm just, I'm being very generic. You know, and they, they did do great jobs and they did do great things for this country, but you know, to, to embellish on a story, it is what it is. You know, I, I ask, why do you need to do that? You know, I can tell you right now, everyone's like, oh, you, you can make all this money. Here's, here's about what I've made. Okay?

• 31:37Speaker 05

  All said and done, it's, it's literally, it's just, it's pretty friggin' close to zero. Right? Um, so I'm not on the talking circuit. I'm not doing all these things. I've been asked to do shows. You know this, Jeremy. I remember talking to George at McMinnville and I don't know if you remember this, George, but I was, you know, it was kind of about, you know, the money and the credibility and George, you know, gives that great advice of, you know, it's best not to just, because it's a news, it's a story and Alex says the same thing. This, this is everyone's story. The taxpayers paid for this while we were out there flying around in those cool airplanes. You know, to, you, you maintain a much higher level of credibility personally, I think, if you're not out there trying to sell yourself.

• 32:18Speaker 05

  And I haven't sold anything, you know, even, even I went to DC multiple times. Uh, sometimes people have got my ticket for me outside of the government because the government doesn't pay. Like when I did Congress, the one last August, I didn't, I had to get my own ticket. Luckily, I was going down there for a good friend of mine's retirement and so I just moved it a day and I had used miles to get my thing. So I, I got my own ticket down there and I got my own hotel. You know, no one covers that for you, as you guys know. So, you know, when you're doing it, and I've been asked why, oh, by the way, I had to take, I had to take vacation to do it. So when I went down and talked to the, the, when I did the first on the record talk, it was in a vault, uh, in the Capitol,

• 33:01Speaker 05

  um, that was, I had literally had to take a day and a half off of work to go do that. You know, so if you, if you think I'm doing it for money when I'm taking my vacation and I'm paying my way down there, I'm doing it because I think the topic is important, not from a little green men, but to figure out what these are, because if you have incursions into your airspace and you can't do anything about it, what are they? You know, and I, I think these things are, as I said, if you asked me in 2004, I'd be like, I don't know, but I can tell you, we didn't have anything with that technology in 2004. I can tell you with very high confidence that we don't, and when I say we don't, we didn't develop that, or we don't have the ability to generate that technology right now, which goes in

• 33:46Speaker 05

  line with what Bob will say. Bob will say our material science is behind from where they're at. It's kind of like his, when he first saw the craft that he says he saw, it would look like someone made it out of wax and melted it because it was 1989. If you ask him now, it was 3D printed. So our, you can see our materials, remember 3D printing really didn't exist back in 1989. So now you can see years later, we have a material science that now allows us to build things that we couldn't do back then. And then, um... I have high confidence that we're not looking to build anything with that technology that I'm aware of in the future. And I would say, you know, and I said this to Congress, you know, because, you know,

• 34:31Speaker 05

  we all know that the Air Force is building the B-21. And I would say, well, if you're building a B-21, but you have something like the Tic Tac that is, does what it does, then why do you need that? You've got this, which seems to go wherever it wants at any time along. So go ahead, Jeremy, I'll get something.

• 34:47Jeremy Corbell?

  In absolute transparency, can you be honest with the American public, 100% honest, about what you do right now for a living? And if you can't, why not? But before you answer that, I believe that you would know if we have or had, even in development, that technology. I know you made a statement to Congress, but I don't think the American public understood that you were in a position of knowledge to say it. That that was not ours, to the best of your knowledge?

• 35:24Speaker 05

  In closing, I would like to say that the Tic Tac object we engaged in 2004 was far superior to anything that we had on time, have today, or are looking to develop in the next 10 years.

• 35:33Jeremy Corbell?

  And also, you might go further with that sentence now. Can you tell us what you do for a living legally?

• 35:40Speaker 05

  I work, I work in aerospace. I will not say where I work. I will not say what I do. There are certain things that I need to keep for me. It's me, you know, and I don't need, I don't need the world digging into what I do, which there, you know, there's people out there going to try and figure it out. You know, my LinkedIn page, I do have a LinkedIn page because a lot of people find it. It's very generic. The pictures from, I don't have a goatee anymore. The pictures from, the pictures from actually when I was doing oil and gas, I still have a lot of friends and contacts in oil and gas. So when questions arise, I will, I will reach out to that. But I'll just stick with, I am a consultant and I work in aerospace and oil and gas. And I'll leave it at that.

• 36:24Speaker 05

  And there's, I, it's, for me, it's a personal thing for me that I don't. I don't want those two worlds because it's it's my life, you know, and I have enough people trying to, you know, I've gotten stuff in my mailbox, you know, you know, as you guys know this and you know, people will come up to you on the street, you know, you go in and you know, people are looking at you, trying to figure out like, who is that? Why do I know that guy? I get it all the time. I even get it at work. Where we'll have a customer come and go, have we worked together? And I'll joke and I'll say like, you know, just I'll shake their hand and say, hey, TV or something. And then.

• 37:01Jeremy Corbell?

  Okay, hold on. Why I'm asking you is because I believe and I trust that you would know to a high degree if what you saw in 2004 was, for example, made by Lockheed Martin. You may have insight when you were in Congress saying, we've we've never made something like that. We we we have not in the past, not in 2004, we're not making something like the Tic Tac UFO that has those capabilities now. And you said something very understated when you were under oath

• 37:40Jeremy Corbell?

  in Congress. And you said something to the effect of it's my belief that we're not even looking to make something like that, meaning America, like, you know, for the next 10 years. I know to trust that you're in a position where that has a lot of weight. Why should the American public or the listener have weaponized? Why should they trust that you might know what you're talking about?

• 38:08Speaker 05

  Um, well, you know, here's why. Because if you look at, so we know that the Tic Tac had no wings, no visual signs of lift. It had no visual signs of propulsion. It had no plumes coming out. There was an IR video, the ENEO, which is black white TV. You'd see stuff. You didn't see any of that stuff. So obviously it had some different form of propulsion and the fact that when we saw it, it was hovering above the ocean. And when it started to mirror us, it literally almost instantaneously matched my speed and I'm coming down probably around 300 knots. And there's a reason for that. So we don't, we don't have anything that can just come from down low and do that. We don't have anything that can come down from above eighty thousand feet, hang out for three hours and go straight back up.

• 38:51Speaker 05

  Right, so obviously this thing is dealing with a propulsion system that is far beyond anything that we have. And we're still building airplanes with, as we call, you know, suckers and blowers because, you know, you suck the air in, you heat it up, it's, you know, suck, squeeze, bang, boom, is how, the easiest way to describe a jet engine, and it goes out the back end. And we're still doing that. And technology in jet engines has evolved immensely. I mean, they're more efficient, they're quieter, you know, you get more thrust out of them. But we're still building them. If you have a technology that doesn't need to do that, then why are you doing it? And I had this discussion with, with Steve Justice, who used to run Skunk Works. And we were talking about it.

• 39:35Speaker 05

  And he's like, you know, getting into electromagnetics, you know, can you, can you build them? And I know there's investment into looking at different ways of propulsion, but we are so fixed on what we do now, it's kind of like we're, you know, the whole thing with, just look at Tesla. We've been so attached to gas vehicles and horsepower and all this, now all of a sudden, you have companies, and I'll use Tesla as an example, because they're pretty much the leading, well, they are not pretty much, they are the leading electric car manufacturer for technology, they, they shifted the game, because it used to be the only thing that was electric was golf cart. And then all of a sudden, Elon goes, well, we can make golf carts that go really fast. And now all of a sudden, you've got these, you know, like a Tesla 3 that goes zero to

• 40:19Speaker 05

  sixty in, you know, like, what, three and a half, four seconds? And then you got Ludacris Speed, you know, in the Plaid, the Tesla Plaid, which if, if you're a Spaceballs fan, you understand where all that came from. For, for anyone that hasn't seen it, go watch Spaceballs and you'll understand. So someone at Tesla has a huge, huge sense of humor to do that, that they call it Plaid, and they call it Ludacris Speed, and, um, but that's, that's a game changer, because someone, Elon, thought out of the box. And he's changing the game. And I'm not saying that the whole world's gonna go electric, but, you know, especially in California, there's a lot of electric cars, you know, and so people don't have to pay five dollars or six dollars a gallon of gas. That was a game changer.

• 41:03Speaker 05

  Someday, someone's gonna do it. You're starting to see it with, you know, looking at airplanes that are electric, you know, and so it's literally thinking differently of what you, what is the realm of the possible. And then the second thing is having the money in order to do it. You know, and every, you know, companies exist for really one main reason, every company. The one main reason that they exist is to make money. Right? Even nonprofits make money, they just distribute it differently. So if your thing is to make money, then you only have a limited amount to get into R and D to do that because what you can't do is, you know, especially for a publicly traded company, show a loss, you know, unless you've just got a pile of money that you can use.

• 41:47Speaker 05

  So, you know, it's, it's a challenge when you go, hey, you know, physics wise, there's a lot of stuff that's been proven, like warp drives can be proven. The problem is can we generate the amount of energy in order to make that happen? And right now, with our current technology, on paper, there's a lot of things possible, but we can't generate the power in order to do it.

• 42:11George Knapp?

  Dave, let's go back to the question about Sean Kirkpatrick's statement. He implies that this is explainable, either it's our tech or something we know. We've heard so many excuses, it's balloons, it's birds, it's jet exhaust, another, another plane, that really don't fit the bill. The idea that we could explain Tic Tac away if we had more data seems, seems dubious because we have a lot of data. That report that came out in 2009, I mean, it talked to not only all the aviators, it had sensor data and did an analysis of this thing dropping from 80,000 down to sea level in 0.7 seconds. That's a pretty amazing capability. I know one of the key assessments from that report, which we released in 2018, the anomalous

• 42:53George Knapp?

  aerial vehicle has no, was no known aircraft or air vehicle currently in the inventory of the US or any foreign nation, exhibited all kinds of amazing capabilities. What would you say to Kirkpatrick saying this is explainable? How? How could it possibly be explainable, given how much data we do have?

• 43:10Speaker 05

  He says it's explainable, but yet he hasn't explained it.

• 43:29Speaker 02

  Hey Spotify listeners. When you travel with American Airlines, you'll enjoy comfort and convenience at every altitude. Before takeoff, unwind in the Admirals Club Lounge with curated self-serve offerings of hearty bites and refreshments. In-flight, stay connected with high-speed Wi-Fi. Sponsored by AT&T. Your journey is designed to feel easy from the moment you check in to the moment you arrive. No matter where you're going, American gets you there. Book now at aa.com.

• 43:55Speaker 05

  So if it's explainable and you can't explain it, then how do you say it's explainable? You know, is that like 50 years from now, we're going to know what it is? I always joke. Someone said, "Well, what do you think?" I go, "Oh, when one lands in my front yard, I'll call you." But you know, if one hasn't landed in my front yard, it doesn't mean it wasn't there because we all saw it. You know, and like I said, I think it's... If you can cast just a little bit of doubt, just a little bit of doubt on something, then it becomes plausible that it's not real. And there's people out there that think, "Well, was it plasma?" There's... I've heard, trust me, I've heard about every theory. You know, I work with some really, really smart people, like a lot of PhDs.

• 44:38Speaker 05

  Not one of them has come up and said, "You're crazy and that could never exist and it's not real." None of them. So, you know, and I...

• 44:46Jeremy Corbell?

  Is Kirkpatrick lying?

• 44:48Speaker 05

  Well, I went down... I'm not going to say who is there, but I had... I went down at an invitation to talk to some people in DC. And of all... And you know who I'm talking about. And there was two MIT guys. There was a one that's a leader in AI. There's one that is an aerospace genius who has like a gazillion patents. And the guy who set it up and me. So they went in and it was... There was no script. And they said, "Okay." And I got some very, very high-level government officials in the room and us. And they go, "Go." And they just... Everyone's looking at each other. They don't know what to say. So I said, "Here, I'll tell you what.

• 45:33Speaker 05

  I'm going to level-set the field. I'm going to tell you what I saw." So I literally gave the rundown of my incident. And MIT guys, the corporate guy, I mean, these are all like PhD level, like some of the smartest people in the United States. And they're just sitting there looking at me like, you're joking. The government people are like, eyes up, and I'm like, no, no, serious. So we kind of got going. After about 20 minutes, I'm like, you know, I'm probably talking too much. And they all turned to look at me and said, no, no, no, no, no. You're not talking, just keep going, because they were fascinated of what I was telling them. Because now you're getting firsthand knowledge, you're sitting, they're sitting next to me, and we can talk, because they can ask the questions, they can ask the science questions that I will do my best to answer, and I always say it in Dave terms,

• 46:18Speaker 05

  because I'm not a PhD engineer, mathematician, quantum physics, you know, stuff like that. But I do understand science. So it's, when you talk to them and you see the reaction of people like that, you go, well, maybe there is something to this, because, you know, the cool thing, and I say this, and I've said this before of, you know, if you're trying to reverse engineer something, kind of like what Bob says he did, and you're working through clearances, now you've got a very small group that are going to want to do that. You know, if you open up, because the cool thing, like, look at Nobel Prize winners, just go through the last 20 years of Nobel Prize winners.

• 47:00Speaker 05

  There's normally like, hey, these two people won it for physics. And they're normally not, they're probably not even at the same university. There's like someone US person here, and there's someone over here from like Switzerland or Russia. Because scientists don't care about political bounds. Scientists care about finding the truth. They want the factual truth. They have a theory, they prove it, it becomes the reality of, hey, I proved this. Until, of course, someone comes in, because there's always, they deal with naysayers too, disprove the theory, right? Which is actually good when people do that, because when it does get to a point where people can't disprove it, people accept it as, this is now fact.

• 47:44Speaker 05

  When you deal with these people and they look at you for that information, like, whoa. And you know they're talking to their cohorts, and that's a small group. You know, there's a lot of, you know, PhD, people who go get PhDs, they're all very smart. But then on that level, there's that group up here that are doing... All the theoretical stuff, they're looking for like, what is the realm of the possible in my field of expertise? And they're not solving these problems, people like that.

• 48:16Jeremy Corbell?

  And very few that actually have the data and the knowledge that they need to have in order to tackle the problem, which was Bob Lazar's number one gripe of what he was exposed to, is he said, I'm not the smartest person. I'm not even on the list of a hundred people you should choose to do what they asked me to do. It confuses him to this day. Why they wouldn't have the smartest, most capable and brightest minds? And the reason is, is that the people that should be working on this, in my opinion, and also Bob Lazar's opinion, and I think George's, have not been given honest access to the data and information that we do have. In fact, I'm going to say something right now.

• 49:02Jeremy Corbell?

  The data and information that George Knapp and I have both ourselves physically seen. And I'm going to go a step further and say this. I'm going to ask you this, George. This is my question to you, very specifically. George, do you have a technical report on the Tic Tac UFO generated by an intelligence agency that is not classified? And if you do, why can't you give that to Commander David Fravor? Why can't you give that to Congress? To put on the record for the American public?

• 49:46Jeremy Corbell?

  If that were to be true, George, and I'm not making an accusation, I'm asking you. Is that true? And if you tried and couldn't put it on congressional record, and you can't give it to Commander David Fravor, can you please explain to me?

• 50:01George Knapp?

  And everybody else, why? Well, we did make public the first report that Dave has been referring to, made that public in 2018. That was just the start. There was a later analysis, 140 some pages that was done for OSAP. I have seen that report. I'm not saying I've got it, but I've seen it. It is not classified. It's highly detailed about the capabilities of that crap, based on sensor data, witness statements, a whole range of sources of information. And yeah, it would be great. It should be public, but it's not mine to release. Information gets shared with you under conditions sometime, and you either have to follow those conditions or burn a source, and once you burn them, you'll never get information again, so.

• 50:44Jeremy Corbell?

  And so the reason why you have not been able to give that to Congress for public record, or you can't just like take it and hand it, it's not because it's classified, I'm not saying you have it, but you've seen it and you might have access to it or know how someone could get it, but it's not in the public. The public is being disallowed from seeing it. And the reason why you are not in a position to change that is because you gave your word to a motherfucking source. And so you're not going to break your word because you're a journalist? And that must be an important rule for you as a journalist, is that correct?

• 51:17George Knapp?

  It's the rule, yeah.

• 51:20George Knapp?

  It should be released. It will be released at some point. There have been hundreds of FOIA requests that have been filed for that report, and all the other reports that were compiled by OSAP. And not one single page of that stuff has been made public. They haven't been releasing it yet. We wrote about it in a couple of books, because what the information in those books was allowed by the DoPsAer process. They said, okay, you can say this. But I'm not going to release it, because it would be the end, it would be the last similar report that I'd ever get. It will come out. And there's, you know, the basics are already known in public, but this analysis takes a further step.

• 51:55Speaker 05

  And, because let me piggyback on that, because this is really important. There are some things that are FOIA exempt. So until that, until it changes, and I would guarantee that report, like I know that everything we did, like the report that you released in 2018, that was FOIA exempt. All the stuff that ATIP did, because I've seen the memo, the government memo, that said, this group with the 10 people that were part of the group, I think it was 10, don't quote me, someone's going to fact check me, it was about 10. Give or take a few that were, the work that they did was FOIA exempt, so you couldn't request, because I got called once by, the Navy called me after I retired, and she had

• 52:35Speaker 05

  called me up and said, "Hey, are you aware of any official reports?" And I'm like, "Like official reports?" And she said, "Yes." I said, "I am not aware of any official reports." Because I knew of the unofficial official report, but it's not mine to give away. And I'm not going to say, "Here it is," because it's not mine. And the stuff that did get released were the logs from CDIC on Nimitz, which, you know, that's going from us, it gets told the petty officer writes it down, takes it shorthand, and it's in his logbook, and then it gets released. So, it's kind of like the same thing that you go, and I know Lou had just come out on a couple of podcasts talking about this, you know, I would guarantee

• 53:17Speaker 05

  there's stuff that Lou knows that he's not talking about, because when you, when you hold a clearance with the government, like I did when I was flying, you were bound for life. So if it is, if it is a classified thing, let's say we had a widget that did something, or I knew something, or I was briefed to inform, whatever, you know, until that gets declassified, you take that to the grave, you know, and, and, and that's, you know, it's, there are people that don't, they want to come out and say it, it's just like, you know, you can have a journalist that blows a source, and it comes out, they blow the source, and they pretty much just blew their career, because no one's going to trust them anymore. Right? So, George protecting his sources, the same thing as government people going, "I'm not allowed to talk about this in the public." It's, it's

• 54:02Speaker 05

  kind of like when, when, when Dave was testifying, you know, sitting next to me to Congress, and they ask him questions, and he's like, "I can't talk to you about that here in public." You know, that's not, he's not trying to avoid answering, but he has, he, he, you sign a form when you get briefed, you sign a form, and they go, "Hey, Dave, you're getting briefed this capability on the F-18," which I had to do when I started flying the airplanes. Cool. Until somewhat, you know, until you know that gets released, and it's now declassified...

• 54:32Speaker 05

  You can't say anything, you know, so you know, you hold that it's the same. Oh.

• 54:39Jeremy Corbell?

  Yeah, so this is so important, this episode to me because I think it explains a lot to people about what George and I have tried to do and why you've acted a certain way. But I want every whistleblower who has ever come forward to me and to George Knapp to hear one thing George Knapp said, and I think David Fravor, Commander, you can testify to the fact that even if it wasn't sensitive, that we have kept your request to never say what you have told us to never say.

• 55:12Speaker 05

  That is true. That is 100% true that I, when I asked you, even, even when the names started to come out and I said, don't confirm that, don't ignore you guys, you were 100% and which is why there's a very small group that I actually talk to and trust with that, which is why I will talk to you off the record on stuff, you know, when we, you know, we're on the phone and we joke about stuff. It's the same stuff like George and I, but you know, we're sitting in McMinnville talking about stuff. It's there's, you know, the picture of us all in the hotel room and talking, I go, there was something that was said in that room that the public, you know, because there's a part of you that, you know, especially for me, that it's me, it's my life, you know,

• 55:55Speaker 05

  and you know, it's like, well, I don't want everyone to know where I live and, you know, and someone actually figured this out because someone sent me a link and it was about me and it, it had my kids' names and it had, you know, who they were with and did they have kids and where do they live and I'm like, my kids don't need that, you know, they don't, you know, they have their own lives, you know, they're very, they're very successful and, you know, why, why would you go bother them? I mean, if you're gonna bother me, bother me when I'm walking out in public.

• 56:24George Knapp?

  Dave, let me ask you this. I mean, I, I know that you were a UFO guy then, you're not one now, you do. Keep tabs on it sometimes. You've seen all the crazy stuff from debunkers online. As soon as that story hit, we have all kinds of excuses. It was seagulls, it was balloons, it was the exhaust from another jet. I think these explanations have to assume that you, the other aviators, the radar operators, all the sensor guys are all idiots, that you couldn't tell the difference between a Tic Tac, whatever the hell it was, and balloons, birds, or your own jets.

• 57:01Speaker 05

  Yeah, George, there was, well, there was stuff that came out of Arrow that said stuff, and I was just like, really? You expect people to believe that? And what do you think I did for, you know, at that point, 16 straight years of flying? You would think it, you know, I would hope, at that point, in the position that I was in, I kind of had an idea what I was doing. And, you know, so it's, I don't know, everyone wants their five minutes of fame. You can have mine. I'll go back to the way I used to be. You know, because it's, you know, it's, at times, it's funny, you know, and people will come up to me, and my kids will be there, but it's just, because they'll laugh and think it's hilarious. But

• 57:45Speaker 05

  it's not everything gets cracked up to me. It's like, I look at like movie stars and stuff, and I'm like, I would never, ever want to be like that, you know? And like I said, everyone, the people that come up to me, you know, because you see people that know you, they'll recognize you, but they don't, you know, just like you see a star. I was in an airport one day, I saw Marcus Allen. I didn't go running up going, oh my God, you're Marcus Allen. I just, you know, they got stuff to do. But some people just come up to say, thank you, which I appreciate. But I've never said, you know, go away or anything like that. It's, people are curious. And a percentage of them will come and talk to you, but everyone's been really nice. Like, I haven't had anyone come up to me

• 58:26Speaker 05

  and say, you are just crazy, you know? And I go, and as long as people are very nice, and they respect, like, don't come up, they'll say, thank you, they really liked you, I saw you on this, or I saw you on that, you know, really like what you're doing. And then, and you probably, I guarantee you guys get the same thing. And then they just kind of go about their way, and that's fine. You know, if you start hanging out in front of my house, which I know Bob has had to deal with this stuff, where, you know, people in campus front yard. Um, that is, I think that's going a step too far. But for me, it's, it's just, people are curious, they're very nice. You get treated really well. Um, I think it's good. You know, I think it's good that, you know, since 2017,

• 59:08Speaker 05

  um, it's not taboo in DC. You know, up to that article, if you mentioned UFOs, you were like blackballed out. And, and I was talking to, um, someone and he was sitting, he, he kid called me and he's like, man, he goes, I was, I was watching the 60 Minutes that we did. And he said, I was with my brother and I, and looked, so my God, there's actually someone that's actually credible about this stuff. And we were laughing about it, we have similar backgrounds and, and I said, it, to me, it's, it's kind of humorous. Because as you guys know, like, I'm not obsessed with this. I have a friend of mine that I flew with, he, he's married to one of my best friends. And he's always been into this. Always. I mean, he's the one that got me watching X-Files and,

• 59:52Speaker 05

  and, uh, he reads everything and he's, I mean, he's way, and he's super smart. But he'll call me up, he'll send me articles like, hey, what about this? Or, hey, do you know about this? And then if I get tids, because he's the one that's really interested in it, I'll talk to him about it. Because he likes that stuff and then he'll, he'll go do his own research. Because he's that kind of person. But it's fun when you have like that because, I mean, we've been friends for, for a long, had since the eighties. So, you know, stuff like that, I like. You know, I got a couple, I got you guys, you know, I, I would have never met you if it wasn't for this. You know, and, and I know George is like the UFO guy, but George has done a lot more investigative reporting and veggging than just UFOs. I mean, like criminal cases, I mean, he is, he is Mr., Mr. Investigative.

• 1:00:36Speaker 05

  In a city like Vegas, which has got to be super interesting because it's like, you know, it's, you know, I guess what happens.

• 1:00:43George Knapp?

  Never a slow news day here, never a slow.

• 1:00:45Speaker 05

  I was gonna say, what, what happens there stays there unless George gets hold of it and then it's gonna be out there. So, you know, and that's kind of cool when you, you know, because I don't think, not everyone realizes that, George, about you, that, you know, you, you, you, you're an Emmy winning reporter that's been doing this for a very long time. You just got tied to Bob Lazar in 1989 to break that story. So now you have UFO. It's like me, five minutes of my entire, I have almost 4,000 hours flying. I spent five minutes chasing a white Tic Tac. And now my, all my time is defined by chasing a white Tic Tac. So it's that same thing where all the stuff that you did, you will always be the guy who broke the Balder's Star Story.

• 1:01:24George Knapp?

  Let's talk about, back to Tic Tac. We haven't really discussed this in detail, but maybe you're freer to talk about it now. What, if anything, was under the water? Do you have any, can you talk about what you saw and what you think was?

• 1:01:37Speaker 05

  Yeah, well, so, because this gets misconstrued all the time. So when we showed up and we looked down, we would have never, ever seen the Tic Tac except for the whitewater, right? And, and, you know, not everyone has been out to sea in the Pacific Ocean, but it is a rare day, especially out of San Diego, that you get no white caps. You know, normally we have tons of natural wind, there's white caps, and when you fly around the boat, that makes a difference when you're landing. So, you remember those days, which we call, I mean, it was just, it was literally a perfect day. It was not a cloud in the sky, light winds, very light winds. And you can tell that, especially for us, because when there's light winds, the ship has to go faster for us to get enough wind over the deck to land. It has to make its own wind. So, when we, we got out to the point and they called merge

• 1:02:21Speaker 05

  plot and we looked down, we were looking off the right side, so Alex and Jim were on my left side stacked up. We, the first thing we see is the whitewater, which is why I said it pointed to the east, it's about the size and the shape of an airplane is what it looked like. It looked like someone, if you took a 737 and dropped it, so, you know, 20 feet below the surface, so you can't see the airplane. So we never saw anything under the water, never saw anything. But, if you understand what happens when there's a sea mound, waves come, the waves get lifted up just like the beach, but it'll be in the middle of the ocean and they break, so you get whitewater. So there was whitewater there, and that's, we saw the whitewater, and then the Tic Tac was, you know, hopping around the whitewater. And that's how we saw the Tic Tac. So we never saw anything under the

• 1:03:04Speaker 05

  water, we just saw the waves, whitewater, you're right. Then after the Tic Tac disappeared, we were right there. This whole thing happens above the whitewater, I mean, turn back to see, let's go look at the whitewater, because what's, what's down there? And there was nothing. So whatever was there... Wasn't there anymore, or all of a sudden, the ocean got really flat where you're not going to get that whitewater, which, as we all know, the ocean is never flat. There's always swells moving, and they come through, because you get the swells that are causing waves, and then you get the fetch, the winds that will cause waves. So there's two different things that help generate that wave flow. So, you know, the question is, what happened to the whitewater? You know, what was there? Was it something that was there and went down

• 1:03:48Speaker 05

  lower? Because that's the only way, you gotta get below the wave height in order for the waves to not be breaking over the top. And you can pull out an oceanography textbook, and it will show you exactly the math on how that works. But, so we don't know what was there, but it gets construed that we saw something under the water. We never saw anything under the water. We saw whitewater, and then the whitewater was gone after the Tic Tac disappeared. So, that's what it was. But you're thinking, it was, it was literally like airline size. It was big. It was a big, big thing.

• 1:04:19Jeremy Corbell?

  Okay. So I'm gonna ask you a couple of questions now. Because we've talked a lot about this. So very simply, I hear your words as fact right now. What I would like to know is, what was the shape of the whitewater?

• 1:04:33Speaker 05

  Like a 737. So if you, if you pointed it to the east, it was pointing east. And you put it out, so you got, you know, you got your fuselage, you got your wings, and then you had a little bit, kind of, you know, it's, it's not defined, but the wings things were like, you had a long with whitewater breaking over it, and then you had two appendages sticking out with whitewater breaking. The Tic Tac was, if it was pointing to the east, it would've been hopping around the right wing of the airplane. So it was going up and down.

• 1:04:58Jeremy Corbell?

  So, people are gonna misconstrue what you're saying because they want to. So I wanna help clarify if it's correct. You saw whitewater as if something was kind of at the surface, and you'd have waves over it. That's, we agreed, that's what whitewater is, is like, if you have something sticking out of the water, a little bit.

• 1:05:18Speaker 05

  Oh, it doesn't even have to be sticking out. It can be 15 feet below. If, if the swells are big enough. So what happens is, as it raises up, as it gets to that shallow thing, it's just like waves on a beach. You know, you get the ocean, you look and it looks pretty flat, and then all of a sudden you'll see a swell. And as the topography is like this, and the way the water's coming this way, the wave, there's a length that they have. Way, it's think of a sine wave, it gets compressed and then it builds up and it starts to rise up. And then it gets to the point where the water breaks over the top. And I go, there'd be, you know, I'll get, I'll get Tim Gall, the Rear Admiral, to ask him. He's got the PhD in ocean, I have an undergrad in oceanography, but he's got the PhD. So he's obviously smarter on all that, but I don't know if he might have done acoustics.

• 1:06:01Speaker 05

  Cause that's a, that's a big oceanography thing. So I don't know.

• 1:06:04Jeremy Corbell?

  The shape of what was, the shape of the, of the whitewater appeared to be something like this?

• 1:06:12Speaker 05

  Yeah, like an airplane, like you're looking down on top of an airplane. It looked like an airplane.

• 1:06:16Jeremy Corbell?

  Right, but people, people are gonna say Commander Fravor just said there was an airplane.

• 1:06:21Speaker 05

  I said it was an airplane shape. It was shaped, shaped like an airplane.

• 1:06:27Jeremy Corbell?

  Off-record and on-record, for, for lack of a better term, and I understand that. You used a word that I didn't use. You used the word, and I want to know why. But you said, for lack of a better term, it appeared to me that possibly the Tic Tac UFO was dawking with something under the water.

• 1:06:56Speaker 05

  It could have been communicating. The way it was, because it was maneuvering over, it was literally staying above the whitewater. It would, it would, you know, like it was really over the right wing. So if you look at it, you know, it's just hanging out over the white wings. You got this, you figure what's a, what's a wingspan of seven thirty, seven hundred fifty, hundred sixty feet? So each wing's probably eighty feet long. You get this little forty foot white dot moving around. Kind of go left, right, and then up over the fuselage and then back down. But it, it predominantly stayed down by the right wing. That's what I recall from twenty years ago. But it's, it's, it's one of those things, it's clear as day. You know, it's kind of like where were you when nine eleven happened? Everyone remembers that.

• 1:07:33Jeremy Corbell?

  Right. So, so you also said to me on record and off record, you used the words impossible. You said it was making impossible movements. I think you meant that it was making movements that you are not aware of that are possible with our current technology, but without me saying what I think, what did you mean when you on record said to me that it was, it appeared to be making impossible maneuvers?

• 1:08:00Speaker 05

  We don't have, we don't have anything. So, big objects that move, I know there's going to be some PhD physicist that's going to go, he's got it wrong. Look, I'm talking quick. I'm trying to keep it in Dave terms so that everyone who's not a physics PhD can understand this. But you have an object. Objects have inertia, right? So when they're moving in one direction, you have to slow that inertia down, stop, and then go the other way. Unlike a ball. So if you have a basketball and you throw a basketball against a wall, right? So the basketball hits the wall and what actually happens is the backside of it compresses, it stops, and then it gets fired off the wall. The wall is actually providing a force

• 1:08:42Speaker 05

  to get the ball. It's the whole, for every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction. So the ball hits the wall. The wall really doesn't move. In theory, in physics, you could say, yeah, it might move like one, one millionth of an inch. That wall is moving just a little bit. The ball is absorbing the rest of it and then the ball goes back the other way, imparted with a push from the wall, right? And people say, Dave, you're completely wrong. But in layman's terms, that's kind of what happens. So when we see a Tic Tac, and if you saw a helicopter do that, anyone that's been to an airshow and saw a helicopter hover, if they're moving left or right, it'll go and it'll slow down and then it'll stop and then it'll go back the other way. It's kind of doing this. The Tic Tac wasn't. It was like, that's why I say a ping pong ball in a box. It's hitting it and it's just going,

• 1:09:27Speaker 05

  it's instantaneously going the opposite direction and we don't have, remember, it's pushing against the air. There's nothing hard to stop you, you know, it's like the difference between driving your car and parking a car and parking a boat. If you park a car because you have a real high friction coefficient with your tires on the black tile, you can stop your car and if you're less than like five miles an hour, you can pretty much stop your car and it won't even skid, it'll just stop. You know, the shocks will absorb it, that force is gonna go into the shocks before it starts to skid, right? If you're in a boat and you're moving and you pull the power to stop, the boat doesn't stop. Even if you go to reverse right away, the boat will kinda keep moving before it gets enough power to go the other direction. So, think of it that way, in the air now with an airplane, and now you got something,

• 1:10:12Speaker 05

  you're seeing something, it's just literally erratic, just moving directions like this. And you go, "Whoa." You know, that's what, there was three things, you know, when you first see it, we, the first thing on our heads, everyone will tell you this, we see the little white tic-tac, immediate thing to our head, helicopter, right? What's a helicopter doing out here? Cause you're too far off the coast for someone, like in a small, like, still helicopter, to drive out that far and hang out and then go back. Helicopter. So, when you say helicopter, the first thing you look at is two things. One, helicopters, you can see the rotors. You know, everyone, you know, when you look at a fan that's off, you can see the blades. When you turn the fan on, you actually can't see the blades individually if it's spinning fast enough, but you can see the circle, you can see it turns almost like a, you can see through it, cause it's moving, but it looks like a circle, you can see the blade.

• 1:10:57Speaker 05

  Or the pattern where the outside of the blade is at. So, you can see that. And the other thing you'll see, cause this thing was pretty close to water, is you'll see the water getting pushed up, you know, the mist comes out. Well, we didn't see any of that, and then you can also see a tail boom where the other rotor sits like this, right? Unless it's one of the puffers. So, you look at it and go, "Well, we didn't see any of those." And so, you go, "Okay, what is it?" And then you start moving around, and then when we got to the 12 o'clock where it matched us and went like this and started coming up at us, um, you know, it's literally pointing and it goes, and it starts coming up. And it instantaneously is matching my speed. How do I know that? Cause it stayed in the exact same spot across the circle from me. So, it had to be doing the same speed as we went around the outside. Everyone's played Ring Around the Rosie or Duck Duck Goose when you're a kid and you

• 1:11:41Speaker 05

  gotta run. That's how you do it, so.

• 1:11:45Jeremy Corbell?

  So even though you testified under oath to Congress and to the American public, even though we already know you did that under oath, you swear on your life that this is what you saw, that this is with your eyes, that this is the truth, and that you are not part of some immaculate deception to the American public.

• 1:12:09Speaker 05

  Oh, I do, because I want to hit on that. Because there is an article out there. It's kind of funny. Again, I'm not giving names. But it was the person that wrote it knows the person that made the comment, who basically said that, that the, he said, well, I talked to him, and he said he was part of a government cover-up. Okay, so number one, I never talked to the person, because I know who it is. I never talked to the reporter, the kid who wrote the article, never, ever in my life. I said, I don't speak for the government. The government will do what they want to do. You're not going to control the United States government. It's a giant entity. You know, I worked for that, I worked in the government my entire time in the military. Um, so, but, you know, there's also the side of, you know, the government does a lot of stuff for a good reason. And I've talked to you about this one.

• 1:12:54Speaker 05

  When they were first going to release the congressional, we're going to disclose, you know, Arrow's going to disclose, and they did the, what is it, 190-some events, and they could only say four of them were explainable and the rest of them they didn't know. Don't quote me on that number, you guys probably know it better than me. Um, so, when the government comes out, and I was talking to you, and I said, well, you know they're not going to release anything. You're like, no, this is going to be huge. I said, they're not going to release anything, because, you know, if, if, if they had something, let's just say the government had something. I'm not saying the government has anything, just say if they did. And it was, if that, if the technology got out to another entity, this is exactly, let's use nuclear weapons.

• 1:13:36Speaker 05

  So let's go back to the 40s, and we were developing, the whole Manhattan Project, we're developing. The United States government knew if that technology got in the wrong hands, really bad. Now, think about this. If the Nazis would have developed that thing first... The world would be a totally different place than it is right now. Because remember, we developed that and we detonated that in 1945. The Russians did not get that till later in the 40s. Right, so there was a couple of years where we were the only country that had that capability. Personally, people will say we used it, you know, and I will defend that because I've been to the Pacific Islands and I've been to Iwo Jima and I'm thinking hitting mainland Japan would have been bad. And there was, there was worse things that happened during that war than dropping that

• 1:14:19Speaker 05

  because that bomb is as cruel as it is and how you would never, ever want to use something like that. It ended that war, it ended that war really quick, but now move on. So if you have something and you, if that technology ended up in the wrong hands, you know, what's gonna happen? It's just like what's going on now. So we know that Iran is trying to develop a nuclear weapon. Literally think about it, 70 years after us, 70, right? Yeah, that's right, 70? No, almost 80 years after us. So, no, 55? Yeah, 70, sorry, I gotta do math, math in public. But 70 years later, you go, there is a fear if they get that. Because if they develop it on their own and they have it, now it's out there.

• 1:15:00Speaker 05

  You know, and if you look at the proliferation of nuclear weapons, you know, nuclear is really good if used in the right way. Nuclear reactors, very clean energy, you know, and you control it and you do it right, it's, it's very good. And it's, it's actually the cleanest, most reliable energy source that we have. People complain about it, but I go, the Navy's been flying around this stuff on boats and submarines since the 50s and we've had no incidents. Because it is very, very strict on how, how you work in the reactors. So, if you use it in that way, good, but if you weaponize it, bad. So now take something like, let's just use the Tic Tac. And I said this to Congress, I said, "Do you think this is a national threat?" And I say, "Yes," and here's why.

• 1:15:43Speaker 05

  So I want to hit the facts. So we know these things that were coming down from 8,000 feet all the way down. They usually hang out at 20 and they go back up. But we know they could go all the way to the surface because I saw that thing down at the surface. Okay, so there's number one. So, and it pretty much shows up undetected. Like when it disappeared from us and then it just happened to reappear about 60 miles away. You know, and you're like, how did it get over there? Okay, so now, you own that technology. But you're an evil person. You're a bad person that has that technology. You can load up, let's just say you can load it up with a bomb. It has a payload. You launch it from wherever. Somewhere on Earth, it goes up, it goes around in space. Remember, it doesn't have to go like, you know, we put our satellites up. They always go in the same direction. The space station, everything's going in the same direction.

• 1:16:28Speaker 05

  These things can go the opposite. They can stop and go the other way. Because they're not powered the way we are. They're powered by manipulating gravity. So you can put it up, you can go any direction you want, you can go over, name a target. I'm not going to say a city or anything, just you want to go, you want to do harm to something. You bring it down. Remember, these things are dropping in what, .7 seconds? They're coming down, woo! So it comes up, you're never going to see it. There's not a modern radar system in the world, and even if you did see it, there's nothing going to do anything about it. It goes down, it opens its payloads, it leaves whatever is there. That's bad, it closes and it's gone. So literally, in less than a second, it comes down, releases, and it's gone. And it sets the fuse for, you know, maybe it's a big stink bomb. And you just want to make everyone smell, because I'm being nice. So it goes down, you're gone, it goes off.

• 1:17:12Speaker 05

  No one even knows you were there, no one even knows what happened. That's where technology, so if the US has stuff and we're working on it. Are they going to release it to the public? And the answer is, probably not. Because we're trying to figure this technology out before someone else does. Because if we get it first, now we can use it to protect. Because, I know there's people in the world that think that we're evil, but we're really not. If you look, you know, if you look at, I used World War II. You know, the Japanese soldiers were told that if they were caught, we would just do cruel, brutal things to them. And the people were taught the same thing too. So when we went into like Okinawa. And we were, you know, we were getting the civilians and we're giving them food and they were like, this is, this is not what we were told. This is not what we were told would happen.

• 1:17:57Speaker 05

  You know, because they were controlled. So if you, if you look at it that way and go, the US government's not going to release everything. I totally agree that the US should not release everything. I do think there is, there is releasable stuff. If this stuff exists, let us know that we're not alone on fact. Like, yeah, we got this. Roswell, perfect example. Hey, it crashed at Roswell. We know it was broken up from the reports that initially came out. Show us, hey, like the metal that you can crinkle up and let go, you know, and then, well, by the way, how many patents were developed out of this? Of stuff that we have today of possibly, it's kind of like you, you've seen, uh, it's one of the original Star Treks, you know, where they're talking to the whales and, and they give them the patents on like transparent aluminum. I think that's what it was. Cause I'm not a big Star, I'm not a Trekkie that big, but I remember the movie. So when you

• 1:18:40Speaker 05

  look at all that stuff and go, well, how much technology have we gotten out of this? Uh, you know, and help develop things, but I don't think we have that kind of propulsion. I mean, I think it's amazing that like SpaceX just caught that booster in the stand. Did you guys see that video? They, they shot that thing, the, and not the little boosters on the thing, but the main big rocket came down and they caught it in the launch pad? Holy cow. I go, that's a, that's a huge leap for mankind in that technology and able to do that. Um, but if you had to tic tac, that would be, it would be obsolete yesterday.

• 1:19:14George Knapp?

  Dave, let me ask you this.

• 1:19:16Speaker 00

  Your sausage McMuffin with egg didn't change. Your receipt did. The sausage McMuffin with egg extra value meal includes a hash brown and a small coffee for just $5. Only at McDonald's for a limited time.

• 1:19:28Speaker 01

  Price and participation may vary. Promotion pricing may be lower than meal pricing.

• 1:19:32Speaker 02

  Hey Spotify listeners, when you travel with American Airlines, you'll enjoy comfort and convenience at every altitude. Before takeoff, unwind in the Admiral's Club Lounge with curated self-serve offerings of hearty bites and refreshments. In flight, stay connected with high-speed Wi-Fi. Sponsored by AT&T. Your journey is designed to feel easy from the moment you check in to the moment you arrive. No matter where you're going, American gets you there. Book now at aa.com.

• 1:19:57George Knapp?

  You've had 20 years to think about it. How was that Tic Tac able to fly? How was it able to stay in the air? No wings, no tail, no rotor, no detectable exhaust. It could perform amazing maneuvers at incredible speed. It had cloaking abilities. It jammed the plane, the F-18 that came after you. It's an amazing machine, but how the hell is this stay in the air?

• 1:20:17Speaker 05

  You know, if you'd asked me, and we had no idea. And then I saw this stuff about Bob, and I met Bob Lazar. And it's ironic, because you know this, George and Jeremy, because you guys know him. And I think people think they know him, but they don't know him. But when you get to spend time with him, you realize that he's actually a real person. He's actually a very, very, very scary, smart type guy. But when I was sitting with Bob, and he's describing everything, and he's talking about what he worked on, and I'm thinking, well, that's pretty much what I saw. It explains, what he says he worked on, explains exactly what we saw, and how it would react,

• 1:21:02Speaker 05

  and how it would move. And it would have this enough power, energy created by what he called the gravity, what is it, Jemery? The little dome?

• 1:21:14Jeremy Corbell?

  He's talking about the reactor that he says had Element 115. He thinks it would be bombarded, and maybe produce Element 116 or something. It creates a lot of energy, and then it goes down to three gravity amplification tubes or devices.

• 1:21:31Speaker 05

  Yeah, and if you talk to, like, some of the things, like, we know that the triangle, it's speculated that the triangle would have three, and a Tic Tac would have one at each end. And when you look at it, how it works, and you talk about what he saw, and what he did, and how that thing worked, and the fact that when they would turn it on, it had a force field around it, you couldn't touch it. And then I talked to other PhDs that go, in theory, yes, but like I said, you go, hey, in theory, we can make certain things work, but we can't generate that amount of power. You know, my joke is, Back to the Future is such a wonderful, I do a lot through movies, because that's what we did on the ship when we weren't flying. But when you see it, you know, how do you generate 1.21 gigawatts?

• 1:22:14Speaker 05

  You know, they were using, you know, it started off with plutonium, they were using fission, and then they went to fusion in the next one where he's got, you know, he throws the banana peel at the end of the first one, because it's Mr. Fusion, and you go, well, and then he goes back in time, he doesn't have the plutonium, he's got to do something, and it's lightning is the only thing we know that will create that amount of energy. So, and we know right now that we don't have stuff like, literally, when you get a big electrical storm, there's more power in an electrical storm than, you know, you could power literally the United States for, you know, some amount of time. So how do you generate that much power? When you talk to what it takes to move an object, so just look at the amount of energy required to send a rocket ship up into space, let's just say to the International Space Station, which means you've got to get it out with enough velocity in order

• 1:22:59Speaker 05

  to get into orbit, where you can release it and it gets into orbit, and now the centripetal and centrifugal force equals as it goes around the earth, because if it stops moving, if it stopped going around the earth, it would fall back, right? So it's, it's like when you're on a, on a, one of those things at the, at the merry-go-rounds at, in, at a park, and you start getting pulled outside, that same force that's pushing you, it's in balance, and then that's how they, they pick those orbits. And obviously, there's going to be some astrophysicist that's going to come out and say, well, Dave, you're not 100% correct. But if you understand those principles of what's happening, it makes more sense. And then when you go, you know, when you see stuff, so like, I have tons of friends that are like airline pilots, these are very respectful guys, I flew with in the Navy, Top Gun graduates, and they were coming up to me going, dude, I've, I've

• 1:23:43Speaker 05

  got pictures of lights, you know, my brother-in-law was, was a UPS guy, seeing weird stuff over the Pacific. If you see like something, if you ever, you can, you can Google it, and you can figure out when the, the International Space Station's going to go overhead at night. And I guarantee, like, George, you're out in Vegas, it's crystal clear there most of the time, you can walk out, go out into the desert, go north or south of the city, or east or west, where you get away from some of the, the, the normal lighting, where you can see it, and you can watch the space station go right over the top. And it's always going in the same direction. When you see something stop, and then go the opposite direction, that's not a satellite. We don't have that technology to do that. So, when you start seeing reputable, like, commercial airline guys going out and going, I've seen some

• 1:24:24Speaker 05

  weird, like, crazy lights that came across, stopped, went the other direction, you know, there's, we can't explain it all, and, and although people will try, because maybe we feel more comfortable if you, if you just explain it away and move on, then we're okay.

• 1:24:42George Knapp?

  Let me ask you about this, Dave. I mean, you coming forward and speaking to the New York Times, to that investigator from the DIA, to Congress, to 60 Minutes, it really changed so much in terms of the stigma. You just mentioned to us about how pilots come to you and say, "I saw this and here's some video." I mean, it really has changed that. It was a lot of stigma 20 years ago, still some today, but it's kind of changed, hasn't it? Because you came forward and did the things you did?

• 1:25:11Speaker 05

  It was me and others, but yes. You know, obviously Alex came out and Jim was on some stuff with me and Chad came out. You know, his pilot has no desire to come out because I've talked to her. And to her, it was actually uneventful. It was Chad playing in the backseat with the sensors when he caught it. You know, and then my backseater, who has talked some, but has not really come out publicly, and that's him, you know, and one of these days I'll run into him. And I thought I would see him last May, but he didn't come out for the event that we had in San Diego. So, it's, for me, I didn't, I didn't come out because

• 1:25:51Speaker 05

  I thought, you know, it would be this big. I was kind of hoping it wouldn't be. But, you know, Jeremy kind of hinted that this is, you know, he was, he was right. I hate to say it, but Jeremy was actually right, that this, this was kind of game-changing. And Lou told me the same thing, that this is, which is when I kept telling him, "No", and I said, "Why? Why, why do I have to do this?" Because he would call me, he had to do this. And I said, "I don't want to do it." And he said, "You gotta do it." And I said, "Why?" He goes, "'Cause, 'cause you're the piece that they can't discredit." He goes, "You will make this, you're that final thing that's going to stitch this together and make it real." And that's when I said, "Okay." You know, but the funny story about that is, I was, I was actually going down, I was working in Arlington, Virginia. And I told

• 1:26:35Speaker 05

  him I would be there. I said, "If you can schedule a meeting while I'm there, it will help." So he scheduled it, and he, and he picked a restaurant, but he picked a restaurant in Arlington, right by where I was staying. And so it was me and Lou, and Lou ended up having to leave early, and then Helene and Leslie. So, you know, Helene is the New York Times reporter for the Pentagon. And I love her, you know, I'll give her a shout out. I think she's, she is the real deal and she's, she's super, super interesting. Her family's got an incredible background, her like great, great, great grandfathers. One of the freed slaves that went back and started the country of Liberia, just incredible family history with her. But her and I had a great conversation. It was fun. We were joking. There were some Eddie Murphy jokes that went in there.

• 1:27:15Speaker 05

  Um, but she looked at me and she goes, Dave, I gotta ask this question. I said, why? She goes, why did you pick this restaurant? Out of all the restaurants in DC? I go, well, I didn't pick this restaurant. Lou picked this restaurant. She goes, you know, because the New York Times would have taken it to some of these really high end steak joints in DC. And I told Lou, I could be anywhere he wanted me, pick this place. And I'm thinking, man, I just got, I just missed a giant dinner on the New York Times. Uh, that I could have went to and we were laughing about it. We laughed about a lot of stuff, but.

• 1:27:43George Knapp?

  Would you agree that the stigma has decreased because of that story?

• 1:27:46Speaker 05

  I mean, the, the, the people in DC will tell you that. I mean, I talked, I was talking to a senator and he's like, he looks at me, he goes, Dave, I'll tell you what he goes, if you'd have said this prior to that New York Times article. He goes, and, and then the other piece that added it, which they're in a lot of, uh, stuff right now with the, with the Kamala interview with 60 Minutes about how they edited the thing and they're trying to explain it. And, and Bill Whitaker is actually the person that did our piece, who did that interview with her. Uh, Bill's, Bill's a wonderful man and, uh, he was great, but those two things, I think, because I didn't realize it. Like everyone in DC watches 60 Minutes. It's like a big thing, you know, and, uh, to, to add that piece and, and then the guy who upset that upset, it's like the most viewed 60 Minutes in the history of the show.

• 1:28:31Speaker 05

  Which I'm like, okay, maybe not, but, um, I guess it's got a lot of views. Um, it was those, it's things like that when what we perceive as credible and now I think, believe it or not, probably one of the biggest things I did, and I said no to this six times, was Rogan. My friend Angel, who I gave a shout out right at the beginning of Rogan program, she said, she said something about Rogan. I said, yeah, he keeps asking me to be on it. She's like, and she goes, what? She goes, Rogan? I said, yeah, I've been asked like a half dozen times to be on that show and I keep saying no. And she's like, you're an idiot. I said, why am I an idiot? She goes, Dave, that's like the biggest podcast on the planet, which if you think

• 1:29:11Speaker 05

  about it, it's got, it gets more views than the New York Times or, I mean, it's huge. It's bigger than any news network out there. And, and the cool thing, and I want to say this because I get asked all the time, they, it's always like, because Rogan is like the mega celebrity, especially among the younger generation that they live in the podcast world. They always ask, how was Joe? I said, I was great. We went to his comedy show the night before. He put us in the spade booth. He came out doing the stuff about the, the old folks homes and I was crying laughing and then he picked up the tab. I said, but what's really cool is, they said, how was he? I said, it's, he's completely unscripted. I said, we went in, I said, we were hanging, I said, Jeremy was talking to him a lot. And he said, and I had met him and then I met his wife and I met his daughter, but

• 1:29:55Speaker 05

  his security guys are Navy SEALs and we have a lot of mutual friends. So Nate and I were standing there talking about my, our friend Art, and I'm just saying first names for a reason. Um, and then Joe looked at us, remember? And you guys were by the pool table and he goes, hey Dave, you ready to do this? And I said, yeah. And we walked in, we put the headphones on, no script, Jamie at the end of the table, go. And two hours later, we're done. He goes, all right, that's a wrap. And he, thanks. And it was, he, no script, the guy's a, he's, he's literally, he does a lot of research. He's brilliant. Uh, he doesn't script anything. So when you see like, I think Post Malone and him were on there for like five hours together. Um, he's the real deal and it's a reason that, you

• 1:30:40Speaker 05

  know, he sold his podcast for what? A hundred million? Then he got another like 200 million?

• 1:30:43Jeremy Corbell?

  Commander, let me tell you something. We had a very different experience. So when we go in there and I'm so pumped that you're, you're doing it and I'm grateful you're doing it and um, I'm just so glad, you know, it was like easy. What the world doesn't know, and they've always tried to make this a conspiracy, to get Bob there, I gotta be honest with you, was harder than anything that I've almost done in my life. And I, I used to do, do MMA as an athlete. This is the hardest fight I ever had, was trying to convince him.

• 1:31:14Speaker 05

  What's important with him, Jeremy, is that he, in my experience and, and watching a lot of his podcasts, um, he doesn't have an agenda. He's not trying to get his point across, because he doesn't care. He's just, all he wants to do is let the story, which is the most important, you know, the news used to be that way, where, you know, they gave you the facts, and then you could make up your own opinion. I mean, and we used to actually have like presidential debates, and they would talk about the policies. Um, you know, it's, you know, this, you know, coming up a week from Tuesday is, is, is a critical point in this country. I'm not gonna get into who I'm voting for, you can probably figure it out. But, um, it's, uh, it, it's, it's critical about, this is not about the

• 1:31:56Speaker 05

  individual, this is about the United States of America. And, and, and when you talk to someone like, like Joe, when you're on his show, he, you know, he offered it up to both, because he has no agenda. He's just a lot, he's gonna ask you the hard questions, he's not gonna go with the script, like, don't ask the tough ones, you can't ask these questions, you know, it has to be, so we all look good. He's gonna ask the hard questions if you sit down in front of him, and you're expected to answer, but he doesn't have an agenda. He's not there to make you look like an idiot, he's not there to make you look great. He's there to get you to tell your story. And he, and if you, and you know how it is when we did this one, it just go, because you don't know where it's going. You know, and I know you both have been on the show, he asks a question, and you go, hey, we're gonna go down this, he'll go down the rabbit hole with you, and then he'll pull out, kinda like

• 1:32:41Speaker 05

  George has been doing to me all day, because I get down the rabbit holes, and George goes, hey, I wanna go back to Tic Tac. Um, which is what, what a good reporter's gonna do. It's like, hey, I wanna get the story out, um, and I'll go down the rabbit hole. But it's, you know, it's, there's a reason that, that, that Joe Rogan is really big, and then the other one, I, I, I don't wanna throw that pitch out to Lex Friedman, because Lex takes everything from very science-based, because that's how he is, and, and obviously he is, you know, and him and Joe talk, and, and they've picked up a lot. So, you know, and now you've got you guys doing Weaponized, so, you know, we've got some, some reputable people that are talking about this stuff.

• 1:33:14George Knapp?

  A lot of stuff into that conversation with Dave Fravor. I want to say something. We had revealed last week on the previous episode of Weaponized that there's this Netflix series coming out and I hope people will check it out. It drops November 8th. I think all six hour-long episodes are going to be available. Somewhere in that episode, there's a mistake. It's an error in fact. It's my fault, but I think I said somewhere about F-15 that Dave was flying. It's an F-18. It's a dumb error. I've made them before. I'll make them again, but I want to apologize for that error. People will notice it when it happens. Sorry. Can't fix it exactly yet, but we're acknowledging it now. You know, the reason we're recording something new in response to that first episode that

• 1:34:00George Knapp?

  we did not air yet is because there have been subsequent events. This guy Sean Kirkpatrick, Dr. Kirkpatrick, who was briefly the head of Arrow, this Pentagon UFO program that was supposedly going to get to the bottom of it, look at all the files from all the agencies and come up with some conclusions. We know what he is. We know who he is and what he has done with the topic in dismissing it, in particular the Tic Tac incident. So, a couple of months ago, when he was asked about Tic Tac, his response was, "Gosh darn it, we just don't have enough data. If only we had enough data, we could probably explain this." Since then, the last couple of days, he came out with something more forceful. I don't know why he's still giving interviews about UFOs to begin with, but he came out

• 1:34:43George Knapp?

  with something else that says, "You know, there are secret programs that the CIA had, balloons and such that could come out of the water that could account for what the Tic Tac was." And you know, that was a testing area. We might have had some classified projects there, both of which are absolute bullshit.

• 1:35:03George Knapp?

  Pilots like David Fravor, aviators like that, flying the best planes in the world with the best sensors in the world, their training is the best in the world, don't know what a balloon looks like? That a balloon went to the cap point and performed these incredible maneuvers and then took off? They don't know that that's a balloon? They can't tell that? It's preposterous. Well, there's a hearing coming up in Congress, November 13th is the schedule unless something else changed. The last time Congress had a hearing, David Fravor was one of the witnesses. Under oath, swore that his testimony was accurate about what he saw with the Tic Tac.

• 1:35:42George Knapp?

  You know, we did not have technology that could do what that thing did back in 2004. As David Fravor has said many times since, we do not have the technology to do that now. And the idea that maybe it's some secret program and that could explain the whole thing, that flies right in the face of everything we know about what happened on that day. There was not just one Tic Tac, there were multiple objects that were seen over a period a couple of weeks. Yeah. That were detected by other witnesses. Yeah. Who, you know, some of whom have come forward. Right. Um, the crew members and, and people working on these sensor systems, who are honorable and trustworthy and who said, hey, this is ours. Uh, the idea that we would test some sort of secret technology

• 1:36:25George Knapp?

  right in the middle of the Nimitz Carrier Group and not tell anybody about it is preposterous. Or that it was a balloon that did these incredible things, it's preposterous. Dave Fravor's testimony to Congress was accurate before. I'm hoping that we're going to get some really accurate testimony from whoever the witnesses are coming up in November and, uh, move forward. It's an interesting time, you know, it's a interesting, we, we have been able to make some progress. I know that a lot of people don't see it that same way, but hearings are happening, additional hearings are scheduled. The ball has been moved down the field. There are some really intriguing things that are happening behind the scenes. We've talked about before, some risks involved in this, you know,

• 1:37:08George Knapp?

  for us and more importantly for other witnesses who want to come forward but are afraid. Hopefully we can create an environment or help create an environment where people like that can come forward, say what they know and not risk either their lives or their careers being ruined. So, you know, progress has been made. It's slow. It's cumbersome. Um, people get frustrated because it's not fast enough for them. Well, that's, that's the way it goes, you know, it, we're doing the best we can and a lot of other people are as well. And, um, I, I'm actually hopeful that, uh, that we can make a difference here. Whoa. Within a minor timeframe, hopeful that we can make some progress here.

• 1:37:50George Knapp?

  If the people in Congress who are asking these good questions, stick to their guns. Right. And aren't, aren't maneuvered out of, uh, asking those kind of questions.

• 1:38:12Jeremy Corbell?

  Never had so few had so much to tell but could say so little.