#2466 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin

Francis Foster is a comic and author of "(Un)educated." Konstantin Kisin is a political commentator and author of "An Immigrant's Love Letter to the West." Together, they host the podcast "Triggernometry."www.youtube.com/@triggerpod www.subfrancis.co.ukwww.francisfoster.co.uk www.konstantinkisin.com Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Visit https://squarespace.com/ROGAN to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience.

• 0:12Joe Rogan?

  Okay, so when we scheduled this, there was nothing happening. It was so peaceful.

• 0:16Speaker 02

  Every time we're here, something crazy is going on, man.

• 0:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, maybe we manifest it.

• 0:23Speaker 03

  To be honest, 2026 did start with a bang.

• 0:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah. Well, a lot of things, you know, it's just, nothing seems stable everywhere. Everywhere in the world seems fucked right now. Like, this is the like, in all of my years, this seems the most unstable globally. Like, I never worried that the UK was gonna be like complete chaos, arresting 12,000 people for social media posts and abandoning trial by jury, all that shit. I never thought the Ukraine-Russia war would go on this long. Never thought. Never thought they would just continue bombing Gaza and then what's happening

• 1:08Joe Rogan?

  now? They just sort of stop? And now they're talking about putting a resort there?

• 1:15Joe Rogan?

  What? Like, you hear that and you go, are you fucking serious?

• 1:21Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:21Joe Rogan?

  Tim Dillon has a, I won't give the bit away, he has a fucking phenomenal bit about staying in that resort.

• 1:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, and you boys have been busy as well, Joe.

• 1:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and I was gonna get to that. The embarrassing part. In the middle of Ramadan, you take out the leader of a Muslim country and...

• 1:44Speaker 02

  They're hangry already and you're fucking with it.

• 1:48Joe Rogan?

  They're really, yeah, they can't drink water. And then, you know, I was listening to Tim Dillon's podcast today. He's got a great podcast with Ryan Grim and one other gentleman. But one of the things that they brought up was that some of these drone attacks, it doesn't even seem like they're from Iran. Some of these drone attacks on Gulf states, like that, one of them, I don't want to speak out of tune, out of turn, because I'm not exactly sure which ones they're talking about. They're talking about one of them on...

• 2:25Joe Rogan?

  Either it's a oil refinery, I think it is, an oil refinery. That it doesn't seem like it came from Iran.

• 2:32Speaker 02

  Where did it come from?

• 2:33Joe Rogan?

  That's a good question.

• 2:34Speaker 02

  One of their proxies?

• 2:36Joe Rogan?

  That's a good question. Well, the fear is a false flag. That's the fear. Like, if you really wanted to get really scared of what we're dragged into. You're dragged into an ally that's not telling you the truth and is also doing some other stuff. Well, not even a saying that that's the case, but a lot of people are assuming that that's what it is.

• 2:58Speaker 03

  But that's what happens when you have an absence of information.

• 3:01Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 3:01Speaker 03

  And so the moment you have an absence of information, there's a vacuum. And nature abhors a vacuum, you need to have that vacuum filled. So that's where conspiracies naturally flourish.

• 3:10Joe Rogan?

  A hundred percent.

• 3:11Speaker 03

  Because if people don't have information, then they're going to basically theorize.

• 3:15Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 3:16Speaker 03

  And part of people theorizing is conspiracies are going to start flourishing.

• 3:21Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think they were basing it on the where the drone came from. Like, let's see if we can find some information on that, Jamie.

• 3:29Speaker 00

  I will try. It was Jeremy Scahill was the other.

• 3:32Joe Rogan?

  That's right.

• 3:32Speaker 00

  Reporter on the video.

• 3:35Speaker 02

  I just find it amazing now how many people have like a hard take on like what's going. I'm like, what the, we don't know a fucking thing about what's going. Like, the coin is in the air, right? And we do not know how it's gonna, but everyone's got a take. Everyone knows. Like, we do not fucking, I don't, I don't think anyone knows. Like, I understand if you, if you work at the White House, or if you work in Russian propaganda, or you work in Chinese propaganda, like, or if you work in Iran, like, you've, you've got to get your point of view across to try and persuade people.

• 4:02Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 4:03Speaker 02

  But if you're actually trying to work out what's genuinely happening, I don't think anyone knows. This is a gamble of gigantic proportions.

• 4:10Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 4:11Speaker 02

  And nobody knows how it's gonna end. It's like, it's just so unpredictable. And I can tell you a great story that is like positive for the, for the West, let's say, for America. I can tell you a terrible story, and they both sound very convincing, and no one knows which one of them is true.

• 4:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's a very good point. This is the hot take culture, right?

• 4:33Speaker 02

  Right.

• 4:33Joe Rogan?

  Everyone has a take and they want that take to be that expert take. So, specific drone attack incidents that call potential false flags. Saudi Arabia, Saudi Aramco, rather, oil facility attack. So Iranian officials deny striking the Saudi Aramco processing facility and instead suggest Israel may have carried out that attack as a false flag to inflame Gulf opinion and pull Saudi Arabia more directly into the war with Iran. So Ryan Grim explicitly says he thinks Iran's claims that Israel hit the Aramco facility need to be taken seriously and that it's very possible Israel did it. And this was the other one, the drone strike on the British base in Cyprus.

• 5:17Speaker 02

  That was from Lebanon, right?

• 5:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Is that what they're saying?

• 5:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:21Joe Rogan?

  It may have come from the direction of Lebanon. He places this in the same context of Iran claiming Israel carried out certain attacks in neighboring states as false flags to blame in Iran and drag those countries into the war.

• 5:33Speaker 02

  Those countries, this doesn't make any logical sense to me because those countries are already in the war. I mean Saudi Arabia and UAE have been attacked by Iran because they were on the phone to Trump, basically asking him to do this.

• 5:47Joe Rogan?

  Here's, this is another weird one, the Tucker Carlson one. You saw that, right?

• 5:51Speaker 02

  No.

• 5:52Joe Rogan?

  So Tucker Carlson said that

• 5:53Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, yeah. The Mossad, yeah, yeah.

• 5:56Joe Rogan?

  That they'd been arrested, that members of Mossad have been arrested in Qatar and Saudi Arabia. So

• 6:01Speaker 02

  But both Qatar and Saudi Arabia have said it's not true.

• 6:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they've officially denied such arrests. Their own Saudi sources also denied it, though they note details don't prove it didn't happen and that states would almost certainly hide such arrests if real. Huh.

• 6:17Speaker 02

  The thing, Joe, is that these countries, so Saudi Arabia and UAE, Qatar less so, they want this to happen because they also hate Iran or the Iranian regime.

• 6:27Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 6:27Speaker 02

  So there is no need for Israel, even if you, you know, if people are tempted to believe, there's no need for Israel to do this because these countries are already in it.

• 6:38Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 6:39Speaker 02

  And that, one of the reasons Iran has attacked things in Saudi Arabia and in the UAE is they know that, right?

• 6:46Joe Rogan?

  Right, so

• 6:47Speaker 02

  The Gulf countries are on board with this.

• 6:49Joe Rogan?

  Right. So what would, what would be, let's assume that the false flag That it's in play. Who would, why? Why would Israel, how would they benefit from doing that?

• 7:00Speaker 02

  That's what I'm saying. There is no rationale that I can think of.

• 7:03Joe Rogan?

  The people that think the false flag is real, like, why do they think that? Like, what do they think that Israel would benefit from it? Is there a scenario where you can imagine it would inflame things? And further support other countries contributing to the... I mean, there's a lot of money that's being spent on this war, right?

• 7:20Speaker 02

  Right.

• 7:20Joe Rogan?

  This is insane amount of money, just for munitions, just for missiles.

• 7:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. And then rebuilding Iran, if we get to that, right?

• 7:27Joe Rogan?

  Maybe another resort?

• 7:28Speaker 02

  Yeah. So, but I just don't see the rationale, because the Gulf countries are already targets for Iran.

• 7:35Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 7:35Speaker 02

  There's nothing to inflame, like, the situation is already pretty fucking inflamed, right? And it's partly inflamed, because, as I say, actually, the Gulf states and Israel are pretty aligned on this particular thing. They're all at threat from the Iranian regime. So, we had Ayman Dean and Richard Miniter on our show the other day. One of them is a Al Qaeda MI6 double agent. Another one is a really reputable investigative journalist, Richard.

• 8:05Joe Rogan?

  Al Qaeda MI6 double agent? Oh, what balls.

• 8:09Speaker 02

  And he has a great podcast now as well, called Conflicted.

• 8:14Joe Rogan?

  What a great name for a podcast for a guy who's a double agent, man. What balls that guy must have.

• 8:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Really cool guy. But anyway, I mean, he was explaining that Saudi Arabia has a population that is way bigger than what they can sustain in terms of the water, but they live in a fucking desert. So, they have these desalination plants, which are extremely vulnerable. And Saudi Arabia, UAE, these other countries, they felt at huge risk from Iranian attacks for a long time. So, they, none of them like the Iranian regime that's spreading terrorism through its proxies. So, in actual fact, dragging them into the war, kind of like, there's no sense for that. I think there's a lot of people just... They go to reaction now whenever anything happens is that it was Israel's fault. You know, like Venezuela, fuck all to do with Israel, but when it happened, everyone's like,

• 9:03Speaker 02

  oh, it's Israel. I think some people just go to that now as the automatic response, which comes back to what I was saying earlier about the hot take culture. Something happened three minutes ago and now everyone's got a fucking take on it. You don't know anything. Right. None of us know anything. None of us know how this is gonna go. Cause this right now is a highly unpredictable situation. I don't think the White House knows how this is gonna go.

• 9:26Joe Rogan?

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• 11:28Joe Rogan?

  This episode is brought to you by The Mosquito Bowl. Here's a story that's pretty incredible. After Pearl Harbor, four of the best college football players in America walk away from promising NFL careers to enlist in the Marines and fight in World War II. And the craziest part, it's a true story. These guys had their whole lives ahead of them, but traded the glory of the gridiron for the brutal reality of combat, where the stakes were life and death. Directed by Peter Berg, the guy behind Friday Night Lights, and starring Nicholas Galitzine, Bill Skarsgård, Ray Nicholson, and Tom Francis. The Mosquito Bowl, now playing in theaters.

• 12:09Joe Rogan?

  No, it's terrifying. It's terrifying, and it's exactly the opposite of what we were told leading into this administration, that it's going to be America first. And no more unnecessary foreign wars. There's the other thing that, do you remember Desert Storm? Yeah. Desert Storm, quick and easy, baby. Woo, we went in, kicked some ass, took some names. That's a wrap. Pulled out, there was only one base that got hit. So the amount of deaths by American citizens was fairly minimal. I think that's what got people so confident into entering Iran after 9/11, or excuse me, Iraq after 9/11, to go back, like, we already fucked them up once. We're going to go back, and this is going to be easy. Well, it wasn't easy the second

• 12:51Joe Rogan?

  time. It was drawn out, and it didn't make any sense. But people wanted some form of revenge, something for 9/11. And so somehow or another, they justified a war with a country that had zero to do with it. Like, it didn't even make sense. That one took for, and then we also invaded Afghanistan at the same time. What did we do? What the fuck? So in the fog of this idea of American exceptionalism, we're just gonna go in and fix it. We did it before. There's no one even close to us. Well, look how that turned out.

• 13:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, this is completely true. And then this idea that it's so easy to take one regime, remove it, and then just put another one in its place, like it's a Lego block, and then all of a sudden, you're going to magically fix a country is a fantasy. Like, if you take Iran, the IRGC, which is the Islamic Revolutionary Guard, numbers around 200,000 trained soldiers. And not only are they trained soldiers, they're fanatical. They're fanatics. And then you have the secret police, and then you have the regular police, and then you have the people employed in the government, and then their families, and so on and so forth. And then there's supporters within the country. And then you've got the various factions within Iran, like the Kurds, who want independence.

• 14:04Speaker 03

  So the moment the leadership is weakened, they're gonna use it as an opportunity to launch their own revolution to try and break away from the rest of Iran. So you have all of these particular parts, these factions. And then you think, if you take out the top, the top who's holding it all together by force, I'm not saying I agree with him or what he does, you have the very real risk that the entire country is going to disintegrate, as what happened in Iran, in Iraq, sorry.

• 14:35Joe Rogan?

  And also Libya.

• 14:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:37Speaker 02

  That is a big risk.

• 14:37Joe Rogan?

  The idea that you could just take the guy out and that's a wrap.

• 14:44Joe Rogan?

  I mean, it doesn't seem like it's well thought out.

• 14:47Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, I guess they would say Venezuela, right? Like regime adjustment.

• 14:52Joe Rogan?

  It's a completely different kind of...

• 14:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course, of course.

• 14:55Joe Rogan?

  This is a religious, fanatical...

• 14:57Speaker 02

  Right, right.

• 14:57Joe Rogan?

  It's a totally different kind of country. Also, it's a country that's been under threat for decades, right? So they've been preparing for this kind of thing.

• 15:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, and also with Venezuela, it wasn't a regime change. Practically everybody who was in the old regime is still there.

• 15:11Speaker 02

  It's regime adjustment.

• 15:12Speaker 03

  Exactly, exactly. So Delcy Rodriguez was one of the senior leaders. In Maduro's regime, they just took out Maduro and his wife, they put Delsi Rodriguez there, but the whole structure, the whole leadership, the whole party is still in place. So they've just, what they've done is they put Delsi at the top and they've said to her, "Look, if you fuck about, you're gonna get what your boss got. So you're gonna follow what we say, you're gonna do what we say, you are gonna open up the oil refineries, we're gonna build it, you're gonna start pumping oil out, you're gonna stop messing about with Hezbollah," which they had training camps in the island of Margarita, which is a little Caribbean island, two and a half hours away from Miami.

• 15:55Speaker 03

  Training camps, you can't have that, you're not gonna be fraternizing with the Cubans, and you're gonna play ball. And essentially Venezuela is now a colony of the United States, that's what it's now become.

• 16:06Joe Rogan?

  That's wild. Well, there's also the Kurt Metzger angle, which is hilarious. Kurt Metzger cornered me one night at the mothership and he explained to me that this was all about the 2020 election. And that Maduro somehow or another had something to do with rigging the 2020 election, and he's going to say it as a part of his testimony. He's like, "Just wait, just wait, mark my words." He's convinced of this. He goes down the rabbit hole to the lava. Like, he passes and he's like, "This rabbit hole's been covered up, it goes deeper." And he keeps going till he's at the fucking center of the earth. He's a funny guy, though.

• 16:51Joe Rogan?

  Oh, he's hilarious, he's hilarious, he's mentally ill, but he's hilarious. He's one of the funniest people I know, like, ever. Fantastic joke writer, too, I mean, he's just great all around. But Jesus Christ, like, some of his nutty theories, they go so far.

• 17:06Speaker 03

  Oh, absolutely, I've been in bars with Kurt where he starts talking to me and I'm like, "Kurt, I don't even know what we're talking about anymore."

• 17:14Joe Rogan?

  Well, he changes conspiracies mid-sentence. He starts bringing up some shit from the 70s, there's the Church Committee and this and that, and MKUltra, and "Don't you know about Monarch?", like, what? Slow down, like, not everybody knows what you're talking about.

• 17:31Speaker 03

  But I, I think this is, and I love Kurt, but this is kind of where you feel that the truth isn't enough, so you, there needs to be something else.

• 17:41Joe Rogan?

  Well.

• 17:42Speaker 03

  There needs to be something that goes deeper than that. And sometimes there is, don't get me wrong. Sometimes it does go deeper. But sometimes, like, you're making connections where there are no connections. Like, it's pretty simple with Venezuela, what was going on. They were fucking about, and they were doing it for a long time. And they were doing it in America's backyard, and they had warning after warning. And Maduro, the way I'd push back against Kurt is, I'm really sorry Kurt, but Maduro ain't that bright.

• 18:07Joe Rogan?

  Well, I don't think he has to be that bright to finance and make sure, and arrange things, because they did, there was, like, some, something connected to the voting machines that were there.

• 18:19Speaker 02

  They made those claims. Who was that one, Sidney Powell, was it?

• 18:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, here we go. She's another fun one. Um, post 2020 from Trump allies like Sidney Powell and Rudy Giuliani claiming Hugo Chavez, Maduro's predecessor, developed rigged software to export to US firms. These were promoted by figures like Mike Lindell. He makes a great pillow. You should listen to him. And amplified on social media, but courts and fact checks rejected them, including Fox News.

• 18:46Speaker 02

  Right.

• 18:47Joe Rogan?

  787 million Dominion settlement.

• 18:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was gonna say, I was pretty sure that those claims were debunked.

• 18:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, not to Kurt. It's like, you guys don't know where the hard drives are, they're in the center of the earth, we gotta get there. Um, yeah, that doesn't make much sense to me, but, uh, neither does this idea that you're gonna take over a country's oil supply. You know, like, that, you know, we'll just take it. That, the, the problem is from the outside. Like, the rest of the world, you, you look at this unnecessary aggression by the United States government, and then you tack on whatever propaganda they have already been spitting out about America for the last 20 or 30 years, and then this war with Iran gets really ugly. Because that's how you start a World War III. You start a World War III by doing something that...

• 19:38Joe Rogan?

  Other than people that wanted this forever, who else thinks that's a good idea? Who else thinks it's a good idea to just attack a country that isn't doing anything? They haven't done anything. Like, if you've proof that they've developed depleted uranium and they've got it up to a point where it's... They've got it to what it... What percentage does it have to be? Like, they're at 60, right?

• 20:01Speaker 02

  But that's way more than you need, I think.

• 20:02Joe Rogan?

  Way more than you need, right? So it shows that they're at least ramping up their production where it's possible to get it to whatever it needs to make a nuclear weapon.

• 20:10Speaker 02

  That's way more than you need for civilian use, right?

• 20:12Joe Rogan?

  Right, right. But that's still... It's not clear that that justifies an invasion when North Korea has nuclear weapons.

• 20:19Speaker 02

  Right.

• 20:20Joe Rogan?

  Right? It's like, do we just want... Are we just trying to prevent them from ever getting to a point where they're like North Korea? Who the fuck is worried about North Korea? Zero people. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. Look, if you're trying to take your business seriously, you gotta level up your website. Mine, joe rogan dot com, is powered by Squarespace. It's a no-brainer because it does all the hard stuff for you. They've got everything in one place. You can lock down your domain, make your stuff look clean and professional, build your brand, get paid, all of it. Go to squarespace dot com slash rogan and try it out for free. And when you are ready to launch,

• 21:01Joe Rogan?

  use the offer code ROGAN to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

• 21:07Speaker 02

  I think the difference, as you correctly said earlier, is these people are very different to the North Koreans, right? North Korea wants to be left the fuck alone. Iran does not want to be left alone. Iran wants to dominate the region. That's why they fund Hamas. It's why they fund Hezbollah. It's why they fund the Houthis. It's why they are doing shit. That's why the Gulf countries and Israel are very worried about them, right? So that's the difference, I think. And then there's the, you know, some of the people we've had on the show who are Iranian have talked about the... The... What is it called? 12 Shia Islam? Is that the... I can't remember the details. But basically, they have a kind of messianic vision of what's gonna happen. And they believe that when the world ends, that's when the prophecy will be fulfilled.

• 21:51Speaker 02

  You don't want those guys with nuclear weapons, right?

• 21:54Joe Rogan?

  That's a good point.

• 21:55Speaker 02

  Yeah. So from that perspective, it's different to North Korea. And so that's, I think, that's part of the thinking. But your point is interesting to me about... The fact that this doesn't reflect what people, you know, as we're not Americans, but it doesn't seem to have been part of the policy platform of the Trump election, the last election, right? No doubt at all. But I do think there is some kind of strategy behind all of this, and I'm very curious what that is. Because I guess if you think about it logically, you would say, well, is it an attempt to effectively push back against China and Russia infiltrating all these countries? China and Russia were very close with Maduro in Venezuela.

• 22:38Speaker 02

  Very, very, like Francis is saying, Hezbollah training camps, island margarita. Where was the oil going? Right? Same with Iran. I mean, Iran sells its oil to China and sends suicide drones to Russia to use in Ukraine. So maybe it's that. Maybe the strategy is you're trying to push back against Chinese and Russian influence in all these countries because you can't attack them directly. Because you can't attack them directly, right? Yeah. But this is all just guessing on my part. And that's what I'm really curious. We're going to do some interviews on this trip to kind of like, I want to get someone on the show who can go, this is the strategy. Right. This is what we're doing. Because I think, as we were saying earlier, it's not very clear to most people what the rationale behind all of this is.

• 23:22Speaker 02

  But I also don't think this sort of like mad dog Trump idea is true either. I think he has a strategy. I'd just love to know what it is.

• 23:30Speaker 03

  And it's very interesting because there's been talk about regime change in Cuba. And one of the things, so.

• 23:38Speaker 02

  I think that's next, genuinely. Oh, my God. I think that's next.

• 23:41Speaker 03

  So when Chavez came to power in 99, what he did, and not enough people talk about this, is he turned what was a very corrupt, admittedly, liberal, Western-style democracy into a communist dictatorship. And how do you do that? You can't just literally do that overnight. So what he did is he allied with the Cubans and Fidel in particular, Fidel Castro. Venezuela provided Cuba with cheap oil, which helped to keep the Cuban economy afloat because Cuba's been going broke since however many years, forty odd years. And what Castro did was he gave him the boots on the ground in Venezuela, but also the

• 24:22Speaker 03

  technical expertise and know-how in order to change a western liberal democracy into a communist state with permanent surveillance, secret police, subjugate the population so there was no chance of them ever being able to revolt and make everything, like I said, into a communist state. So by what they did in Venezuela, Venezuela can no longer support Cuba. So Cuba is literally now withering on the vine as a result of them knocking out the Venezuelans.

• 24:52Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 24:53Speaker 03

  So it's going to come to a point where you could say Cuba effectively going to go bankrupt, which could precipitate an uprising, a revolution by people when people can no longer eat. And that would mean that that country is then weakened. Finally, they can get rid of the communist regime there and they can have a different type of government, one which will be far more sympathetic, shall we say, to working with America and being an American island, possibly.

• 25:19Speaker 02

  That makes sense to me in a way. What I don't understand about the Iran thing is like, what is the end goal here? Well, you've got the Reza Pahlavi, the Shah's son. I mean, he left Iran a long time ago as a kid, right? You know, the idea that he's going to go back in there and be welcomed by the masses, maybe that's true.

• 25:37Joe Rogan?

  It's like Daenerys returning to the Iron Throne.

• 25:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, but Daenerys had three fucking dragons, right?

• 25:44Joe Rogan?

  But you know what I'm saying, like she left when she was a baby.

• 25:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's right, that's right. And it's not like the people are desperately, I don't know, maybe the people are desperate for the return of the Shah's son.

• 25:54Joe Rogan?

  Well, it seems like some people are desperate for a change there. The people that were protesters, the people that risked their lives, 100%. But like every country, like if you only listen to the liberals in this country, you would think that, you know, that no one's illegal on stolen land.

• 26:10Speaker 02

  Right.

• 26:11Joe Rogan?

  If you only listen to the Republicans in this country, you would think we got to find every illegal and get them out of our country and make America great again. Like, it doesn't make sense if we just go only by the protesters. Like, we don't really have accurate polling because they don't have any free speech over there.

• 26:27Speaker 02

  Right.

• 26:28Joe Rogan?

  And they've killed... Like famous athletes over there for protesting.

• 26:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:32Joe Rogan?

  I mean, they killed the Olympic gold medalists in wrestling. The UFC tried to step in and try to do something to stop it. They executed him for just, apparently, I don't even think he was actually protesting. I think he was just at a protest. He wasn't even saying anything.

• 26:47Speaker 03

  And this is the thing you always have to bear in mind, Joe.

• 26:49Joe Rogan?

  I might be wrong about that, though.

• 26:50Speaker 02

  No, I think you are right.

• 26:51Joe Rogan?

  Am I right about that?

• 26:52Speaker 02

  The final details, I'm not sure, but the fact that he was executed.

• 26:56Joe Rogan?

  Yes, he was executed.

• 26:57Speaker 02

  Dana worked very hard to try and save that guy.

• 26:59Joe Rogan?

  I think there was some discrepancy as to whether or not he was actually participating in the protest. That also could have been the defense, you know? I don't know. But, I mean, the fact that they execute people who protested, there's no way you can support that kind of, that's a scary-ass fucking government and run by religious fanatics. That's a scary-ass government. But the question is, like, how scary-ass does it have to get where invading makes sense? Because if this keeps going, like, if we, we have to go boots on the ground. That's where things get nuts.

• 27:31Speaker 02

  You can't go boots on the ground, man. You can't. You can't.

• 27:34Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 27:35Speaker 02

  I don't, but I don't think there's any appetite for it.

• 27:37Joe Rogan?

  You should be President of the United States.

• 27:40Speaker 02

  There's a lot of people that are gonna disagree with that. No, I don't think that's viable, just like.

• 27:49Joe Rogan?

  Well, it might be robot boots on the ground.

• 27:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:51Joe Rogan?

  You know, if Elon gets that factory up in time.

• 27:53Speaker 02

  But what I wanna know is, like, what is it that, what is, what is it you're working towards?

• 27:58Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 27:58Speaker 02

  Right? Like, so, from what I understand, talking to some of the people, like, Israel would quite like a Reza Pahlavi monarchy, because the other Middle Eastern countries that they have peace with, you know, Bahrain, Morocco, increasingly the Gulf states, they're all monarchies.

• 28:16Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 28:17Speaker 02

  Right?

• 28:18Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 28:18Speaker 02

  So they're down with that. But from what I understand, the White House is really not that interested in Pahlavi. And so what?

• 28:26Joe Rogan?

  What do they want?

• 28:27Speaker 02

  Well, one of the things that Richard Minnit had broken on our show, because it hadn't been reported anywhere else, was that the White House has given the Israelis a no-kill list. Which is basically a list of members of the current regime that they don't want to be killed, because they have hoped that these people could then be the Rodriguez equivalent in Iran, right? And I don't know that the fanatics within the Iranian regime who are there now, how many of them are like this mod, like Darth Vader, but like, like, do you know what I mean?

• 28:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:59Speaker 02

  You're kind of looking for-

• 29:00Speaker 03

  Darth Vader, zero.

• 29:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, no, no, no Islam, zero Islam. Like, I don't know that that exists, right?

• 29:07Joe Rogan?

  Right, sugar-free.

• 29:08Speaker 02

  Islamism-free, yeah. So, so that's the bit, and that doesn't mean that there isn't like a plan-

• 29:16Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 29:16Speaker 02

  But I don't know what the fuck that plan is, right now, and I find it hard to see one.

• 29:20Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 29:20Speaker 02

  So, regime, evil regime gone, wonderful, but what, but the question is always like, what comes after that?

• 29:25Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 29:26Speaker 02

  That's always the question. And that's where I think your point is very true, which is, in the past, there have been times where this sort of approach has gone completely off the rails.

• 29:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 29:34Speaker 02

  That's a fact.

• 29:35Speaker 03

  And it's also, as well, what has been coming out of the Trump camp is contradictory, to put it mildly. You have Hegseth saying one thing, you have Trump saying another, they contradict each other at certain points, is that a tactic in order to befuddle the opponent? Maybe, who knows? Or is it the fact that they don't actually have a grand vision?

• 29:53Joe Rogan?

  Was there some sort of a concession today on Russian oil?

• 29:56Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, I think the, first of all, Trump let India buy Iranian oil, and I think now they are lifting the sanctions on Russia selling its oil because the oil prices spiked as much as they did, right?

• 30:08Joe Rogan?

  Here it goes. US eases limits on Russian energy as oil prices soar.

• 30:13Speaker 02

  Right.

• 30:14Joe Rogan?

  Dum, dum, dum, dum, dum, dum, dum, dum.

• 30:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, you've got the Pink Floyd t-shirt, so it's appropriate.

• 30:25Speaker 02

  But you can see it, like, the oil prices spiked for, for what, one day, two days?

• 30:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 30:31Speaker 02

  And everyone went full panic-

• 30:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 30:34Speaker 02

  Straight away. But the thing is, if that, if that carries on for two months, the impact of that on domestic politics, I mean, I'm not an expert in American politics, but even I can say that's going to be pretty fucking important.

• 30:46Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's bad.

• 30:47Speaker 02

  Right.

• 30:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's gonna be bad. I mean, if oil prices spike, we're fucked.

• 30:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:52Joe Rogan?

  You know, and the Republicans are really fucked.

• 30:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, and you've got the midterms coming-

• 30:56Joe Rogan?

  Because you got the midterms coming up in November, and it's also the momentum will be in their way.

• 31:02Speaker 03

  And look, there's, you know, second, third, fourth order consequences. So at the moment in the UK, the vast majority of people find it, are finding it more and more difficult just to get through to the end of the month because of the cost of living, inflation, it's becoming worse and worse. I was talking to a butcher in my area, which is this very nice part of North London. You know the type of place I'm talking about. Everyone loves BLM, no one has a black friend. That kind of place, right? (laughing) Okay, that's the kind of area it is. And he was telling me that even in this very wealthy area, people are starting to ration meat now. So before they'd have meat five days a week, now they're going down to three or two. And this is in a wealthy

• 31:43Speaker 03

  area. So now imagine if there's energy spikes and then food becomes more and more expensive. There is already a very worrying, hard-left political movement growing in the UK where they're talking about, you know, capitalism doesn't work, we need socialism. And there's this new politician come to the fore, a guy called Zach Polanski, who talks about what we need in this country and the UK is socialism. Now imagine if the cost of living crisis gets worse and the vast majority of people who work hard in a regular job can't make ends meet through literal no fault of their own. Can you blame them for going, hang on, capitalism doesn't work? Because in this instance, at that moment, it doesn't work

• 32:28Speaker 03

  for them. And then you could, that could spark something completely disastrous for our country.

• 32:35Speaker 02

  Yeah. But I think, you know, that's a negative story. I think it's incredibly persuasive. And I lean more in the direction that this could go badly. But I also think there is the possibility of this goes well too. I think that is possible. What do you, how do you envision that scenario? Well, so if they're able to keep the strait of homs open and you don't have this energy problems that we've got now, you know, Venezuela, Cuba, is basically resetting the region and he's basically saying to all the people that want to align themselves with China and Russia, like, we're not fucking about here. Cross these lines, that is an opportunity to to to address the slide that the Western world has had vis a vis China and Russia for a very long time.

• 33:20Speaker 02

  That could be a very positive thing. The thing is, what happens in Iran, like, that is the thing that I don't really see how that goes well. Might do. Like I said, there's probably a plan that we don't know. And if if that works out, that could be very good.

• 33:34Joe Rogan?

  Okay, what would you imagine that plan would be? If you if you like, let's imagine, best case scenario, you're in the White House, they're all very rational. No one's being influenced by foreign governments, no one's incompetent, everybody knows what they're doing.

• 33:52Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, I mean, we're in the realms of fantasy now.

• 33:54Joe Rogan?

  That's why I like to go.

• 33:57Speaker 02

  But, I mean, take the Soviet Union, which is obviously something that I know, right? Being born in the Soviet Union, Russia. Towards the end of the Soviet Union, you still had some fanatical communists. And in fact, throughout the Soviet Union, you always had within the government, a mixture of different people, right? You had the fanatical communists who believed that communism is the only thing that was ever going to work, etc. But you also had people who were reformers. They saw the problems, they saw that the fanatical communists were ruining things, and things were getting worse, right? They saw that you had to kill more and more of your own people to keep shit locked down, right? So, the argument could be, within the Iranian revolutionary guard, or the regime more broadly,

• 34:39Speaker 02

  there are people who are, like, you know, I'm not necessarily that keen on the guy who runs Syria now, Al-Jalani, right? He is a jihadi, but he's kind of like a moderate one, you know? You know, how long that, I don't know how long it's going to last. But my point is, within every regime, there is some range of opinion. There is some range of fanaticism, there is some range of people who, partly for generational reasons, you know, the younger people have seen, you know, a 40-year history, and they now go, okay, this isn't working anymore, we need to try something else. That is possible. So if if the CIA and the White House have someone like that, and they can do a regime adjustment, and, like, I think the idea that you're going to have

• 35:23Speaker 02

  You know, multi-parliamentary democracy with, you know, free and fair elections and women, you know, like Venice Beach, you know, rollerblading on bikinis on. I don't know that that's gonna

• 35:35Joe Rogan?

  You don't.

• 35:36Speaker 02

  Right? But what you might have is an authoritarian regime of some kind, like many other countries in the Middle East, which realizes that actually economic growth is more important than shouting ala Akbar every three minutes and blowing shit up, right? That focuses on making life better for their citizens, that, you know, practices traditional Muslim values, which many countries do, and says, you know, women ought to be modest, but doesn't force them to wear the burka or, or, or the, the headscarf or whatever, or, and is less interested in destabilizing the region and attacking others and trying to be this great power, and is more interested

• 36:17Speaker 02

  in just prosperity for its own people, survival for them, for themselves as a regime, and is willing to play ball with the United States. I mean, that's-

• 36:25Joe Rogan?

  Well said. Yeah, well said. That's best-case scenario.

• 36:27Speaker 02

  That's best-case scenario. Now, if you get there, I think that would be a huge win for President Trump, and it'd be a huge win for the world, and he will walk away from that with a huge win. And I think, you know, you're a better expert on the American people, but I think American people like winning, right? So if you have all this happen, he can then say, well, look, we did this, we did this, we did this, Russia and China have been pushed back, we got a, you know, the situation, Iran is not gonna get a nuke, which is important. I think we can all agree on that, right?

• 36:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 36:57Speaker 02

  There is the possibility that he comes out of this very well. I, I think that, based on what I see, but I don't know, coming back to what we said, I think we share this kind of perspective really, Francis and I, that seems somewhat less likely, at this point, or at least harder to see. But I think you can tell a persuasive story both ways. I really do.

• 37:17Joe Rogan?

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• 38:03Joe Rogan?

  This episode is brought to you by the Apple Sports app. Guys, this is the ultimate best time of the year to be a sports fan. Football, baseball, basketball, hockey, soccer. The calendar is stacked, but it can also be hard to keep track of it all. And that is where the Apple Sports app comes into play. It is the fastest and easiest way to stay on top of all the action. With scores and play-by-play automatically showing up on your iPhone when the teams you follow are playing, that means you don't have to figure out when the games are on and how your team is doing, which is especially nice when you're following a bunch of teams and your friends are constantly blowing up the group chat.

• 38:45Joe Rogan?

  The Apple Sports app gives you all the important game details for your favorite sports teams, fast and simple. Download Apple Sports for free on the App Store or find it on your new iPhone. That makes sense. And what you're saying, I think, is very valid, that we need to abandon any idea of them having some sort of a democracy over there. It's not going to happen. No.

• 39:10Joe Rogan?

  And, you know, you do look at the relationships that we have with other Gulf State nations. Seems fine, right? It's not threatening to us. We would like everyone to be free and have the same sort of liberal democracy that we have in America, but... Okay, you like that all, want that all day long. You can't do anything to change the way other people govern themselves. Especially when you've gotten to the point where, like, take any of the Middle Eastern countries, for example, these, some of these people are worth trillions of dollars. These royal families have been running it forever. They have insane amounts of oil money. Good luck. Good luck getting them out of there.

• 39:51Joe Rogan?

  Like, good luck saying, uh, we should just vote, you know, and have a president and you don't have any power anymore. Like, how, how are you gonna pull that off? Especially if things are going well for the people that live there. Like, like, I have a friend who moved to Dubai. And, uh, he's an American. And, uh, he moved back to America recently, but he was over there and he said, dude, you could leave a Rolex on the street and people would pick it up and bring it to the police. Like, it's so safe. He's like, there's no crime. And he's black and see, he's like, I worry when I go out in America, I'm gonna get shot. I'm worried I'm gonna go to a club and someone's gonna start beefing and shooting up the place and I'm gonna get hit. He goes, I don't think about that at all over here. There's none of that. He goes, it's safer.

• 40:35Joe Rogan?

  Is it fucked up that, you know, it's run by a king? I, I guess. Is there, is it that much different than a president? I mean, in, in a way, like, it's a leader, right? You've got more checks and balances over here, you've got Congress, you got the Senate. You got all this shit going on with the Supreme Court. You have all these different human beings that also have a say and can block things and, but at the end of the day, we're still under this bizarre alpha male chimpanzee structure that has existed from the time that we were a hundred and fifty people in a fucking tribe, right? So, it's still one guy running things. It's just running things their way. And if you were a citizen in Dubai...

• 41:20Joe Rogan?

  Pretty fucking good, right?

• 41:21Speaker 02

  Right. Well, your point about the UAE is really interesting because not only is on the practical level of safety and other things, but also, uh, they don't have the Islamism problem.

• 41:31Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 41:31Speaker 02

  That we have in Britain, and increasingly you guys are starting to see here, because they recognize that it's a problem and they deal with it. So, I don't know if you saw this news story, the UAE no longer gives sponsorships to their students.

• 41:44Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 41:45Speaker 02

  To go to the UK, because they're worried their kids are gonna get radicalized by Islamists in Britain.

• 41:52Joe Rogan?

  Which is fucking wild.

• 41:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:54Joe Rogan?

  That is fucking wild.

• 41:55Speaker 02

  Yeah. And you, I mean, you, you, you were messaging me about this story with the the Mamdani situation, right, yesterday?

• 42:01Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 42:02Speaker 02

  You now have this problem in America.

• 42:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:04Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 42:04Speaker 02

  You have the Islamism problem here, where people who are supporters of ISIS are throwing bombs. I mean, your media's pretending it's not happening, but it's fucking happening.

• 42:12Joe Rogan?

  Well, it happened in Austin.

• 42:13Speaker 02

  Right.

• 42:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:14Joe Rogan?

  I mean, the guy who shot up that bar.

• 42:16Speaker 02

  Right.

• 42:16Speaker 03

  Um. Because this is a problem, Joe.

• 42:18Joe Rogan?

  I'm gonna send that article to Jamie.

• 42:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:19Joe Rogan?

  Jamie, you could probably find it on CNN, because it's kind of hilarious.

• 42:24Speaker 02

  Incredible. This was actually incredible.

• 42:26Speaker 00

  The New York Times title change thing?

• 42:27Joe Rogan?

  Did the New York Times change their title?

• 42:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 42:30Joe Rogan?

  They did?

• 42:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 42:31Joe Rogan?

  I wonder why?

• 42:34Speaker 02

  Austere scholars.

• 42:35Joe Rogan?

  I'm gonna send you the CNN one first. Um, the CNN one is, is really wild.

• 42:40Speaker 00

  It was called, they had like, fuses of things with smoke or something, and they had to change it to bombs or something.

• 42:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, fucking duh. Uh, I'm sending you this one, because the CNN one is, believe it or not, more preposterous. The CNN one is so kooky, you, you, you see their headline, and you're like, what, what kind of story are you painting here? Like, this is such a crazy way to frame, a guy showed up with bombs and was hurling them at people.

• 43:10Speaker 02

  Well, they made it sound like the exact opposite of what actually happened.

• 43:14Joe Rogan?

  Well, it sounded like it was just a regular day. It was a regular, it was a regular day for this fella, and then things just went a little sideways.

• 43:21Speaker 03

  Yeah!

• 43:21Joe Rogan?

  Somewhere along the line.

• 43:22Speaker 03

  Listen, we've all got hobbies, man, you know what I mean?

• 43:24Joe Rogan?

  Took a left.

• 43:24Speaker 03

  You like working out, he has nail bombs, come on.

• 43:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Did you get it, Jamie?

• 43:28Speaker 00

  It's not.

• 43:29Joe Rogan?

  It's not coming through?

• 43:29Speaker 00

  No, look, when I, uh, it's not loading there.

• 43:32Joe Rogan?

  Oh, interesting. But let me, um, see if they took it down.

• 43:37Speaker 00

  I'd guess they would have. You probably have an old link that...

• 43:40Joe Rogan?

  Okay, that's the New York Times one I sent you on... Oh, well, that's... No, that's the one I just clicked on. Let me check the, uh, original one. Nothing to see here. Interesting.

• 43:49Joe Rogan?

  Uh, they probably deleted it. Okay, here, I found it. I found it. "Two Pennsylvania teenagers cross in New York City Saturday morning for what could have been a normal day, enjoying the city during abnormally warm weather. But in less than an hour, their lives drastically changed as the pair would be arrested for throwing homemade bombs." That's, that's, that is CNN's tweet. Um, I'm gonna send you a screenshot, cuz I do believe they have taken it down.

• 44:14Speaker 02

  It's brilliant.

• 44:15Joe Rogan?

  Um, yep, nothing to see here yet. Yeah, they took it down.

• 44:19Speaker 00

  That's not a headline, though. That's a good...

• 44:20Joe Rogan?

  No, no, no, no. I'm, I'm gonna send you the, uh, actual tweet, because they did take it down, because it's so fucking ridiculous. But, uh, the internet never forgets. Um, I'm sending it to you here. Thank God I saved it. It took a screenshot. Cuz I'm like, this is such a crazy way to frame two guys wanting to do a terror attack.

• 44:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:44Speaker 02

  But it's not an accident, Joe. It's not crazy. You know it's not crazy.

• 44:47Joe Rogan?

  Look, look how it's framed here. This is the original tweet. "Two Pennsylvania teenagers, just regular fails, from, from PA, from Philly. Two Philly boys had a couple of cheese steaks and then got on the train. Crossing New York City Saturday morning for what could have been a normal day, enjoying the city during abnormally warm weather." Why the fuck would you even say that? Could have been a normal day if they weren't going there to commit terrorism.

• 45:10Speaker 03

  Do you know what it reads like? It reads like when I used to teach, uh, thirteen-year-olds creative writing. That's how they'd all start off. You know, it was like a normal day and...

• 45:19Joe Rogan?

  I mean, is the... I'd like to know who wrote that. Who's the person who wrote that? And I wanna know, were you directed to write it that way?

• 45:27Speaker 02

  Who approved it?

• 45:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 45:28Speaker 02

  Who edited it?

• 45:29Joe Rogan?

  Are you trying to downplay the possibility of, first of all, now in New York? Because you have a, a guy who's an avowed, whatever he is, democratic socialist, some say communist, but also Muslim. And then you have these Islamists who are doing a... Terrorist attack. So like, are you trying to soften that?

• 45:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, but they are. So what what happened, just so people know is there was a protest outside Mamdani's mansion.

• 45:56Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 45:56Speaker 02

  Right. And then these two people turned up and threw bombs at the protesters.

• 46:01Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 46:01Speaker 02

  And the way it was reported, you, if you just read that and no other stuff, you would have come away from the, with the conclusion that it was the protesters who were the targets of the bombs. They were the ones that threw the bombs. No one officially said that that's what happened. But the way they did the story and the headline, you would have got that impression. And you're just going, well, you were just on a team. You see this as a team game.

• 46:26Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 46:26Speaker 02

  Right. And you want to present your team in the correct light.

• 46:30Joe Rogan?

  Oh, the new, new post. A post regarding two individuals arrested for throwing handmade bombs outside of New York City Mayor Zohan Mamdani's home failed to reflect the gravity of the incident, thereby breaching the editorial standards we require for all our reporting. It has therefore been deleted.

• 46:47Speaker 02

  But see how skillful this is, Joe? This is gaslighting again. They're saying their mistake was to what?

• 46:54Joe Rogan?

  Look at the first post. Look at this guy, donut operator. Nah, you retards got called out for trying to downplay actual terrorism. And now you're backpedaling. Yep.

• 47:02Speaker 02

  Who's that second guy? He's really smart.

• 47:05Joe Rogan?

  Didn't fail to reflect the gravity of the situation. This guy named Konstantin, I think he's on that Trigonometry show. Uh, reflect the gravity of the situation. It failed to accurately communicate who is responsible, who the intended victims were, and where the the blame for the attempted terrorist attack lay. In other words, you didn't accidentally downplay the seriousness of it. You deliberately misrepresented what happened to conceal the truth from the public. Well, that's how AI would say it.

• 47:32Speaker 02

  I still write my own shit, Joe.

• 47:34Joe Rogan?

  I know you do, but I like the donut operator guy.

• 47:39Speaker 02

  I know. He's more your cup of tea.

• 47:40Joe Rogan?

  That's, that's how I like to talk.

• 47:42Speaker 02

  That is what happened though, right?

• 47:44Joe Rogan?

  That is what happened, but that's what's really scary about this world we're living in that right now. Because we're, we're so ideologically captured, both right and left. Everyone in this country looks at this administration as an access. ...a substantial threat to democracy itself and our way of life and, you know, fill in the blank, whatever marginalized groups are all gonna be rounded up and put in internment camps. This is, this is the narrative that the most radical of the left have about that the sky is falling because Trump's in office.

• 48:14Speaker 03

  But it's also as well, what people on the left don't want to acknowledge is the dangers of Islamism.

• 48:18Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 48:19Speaker 03

  When they see people do these kind of horrific terror attacks, when they see, for instance, what happened in the London Bridge terror attacks in 2019, or what happened in Manchester in the Ariana Grande concert, where Islamic terrorists bombed a Ariana Grande concert, and the majority of the audience were little girls, were young girls. And they say, oh, that this happened because, you know, they were marginalized and they felt angry, and this is what people do when you push them to one side and they don't have a means in order to how to express themselves. You go, no, what this is, is an ideology. It's an ideology which believes that our civilization, our way of life is evil, but

• 49:01Speaker 03

  also they want to establish their form of radical Islam across the globe. They want to create a global Islamic caliphate, and they will do whatever it takes in order to achieve that goal. But people in the West, they can't understand that because it's so alien for how we see, how we see things. We believe human life is precious. We believe the most important thing is human life. They don't. They believe the cause is more important than your life. And we can't understand that because we're raised in a world that is fundamentally Christian, even though we might not be. We still have Christian values. We had a guest on the show, a wonderful historian called Tom Holland, and he explained this to us, that even if you're not Christian, even if you think you were raised by atheist

• 49:44Speaker 03

  parents, you were still raised with Christian values. That's the soup in which we live, that's what the water in which we swim. So, this way of life that these people have, this ideology, is so alien to us that we can't understand it. But also, we don't want to understand it, because if you start to actually investigate what these people believe... Their ideologies, you realize that we are not all the same. And these people believe something very, very different. And then we're going to have a very uncomfortable conversation of how do you tackle this? Because can you have Western liberal democratic values and Islamism and people who are Islamists in the same society? And the answer is, you can't.

• 50:27Joe Rogan?

  And I think it's really important, your point, the difference between Islamists and Muslims.

• 50:32Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 50:32Joe Rogan?

  The Muslims are these Gulf state people. Muslims are these people in Dubai and Saudi Arabia. Islamists are the ones that want the caliphate.

• 50:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, right.

• 50:40Joe Rogan?

  But then you have the crazy Christians. And that thing that I sent you, the Yahoo thing that we talked about yesterday with Schellenberger? The Yahoo thing is nuts. So these military leaders, so this comes from one of the non-commissioned officers who went to a briefing. He goes to a briefing and they inform him that you shouldn't be scared because this is all, because President Trump is anointed by Jesus and this is to bring about Armageddon so that Jesus returns to earth. This is in a fucking military briefing. One such note included an anecdote from a non-commissioned officer who reported that their commander had urged us to tell our troops this war was all a part of God's divine plan.

• 51:22Joe Rogan?

  And he specifically referenced numerous citations out of the Book of Revelations referring to Armageddon and the imminent return of Jesus Christ. This is fucking crazy. He said this morning, our commander, so this is, this is an officer who's talking about this. This morning, our commander opened up the combat readiness status briefing by urging us to not be afraid as to what was happening with our combat operations in Iran. He said President Trump has been anointed by Jesus to light the signal fire in Iran to cause Armageddon and mark his return to earth. He said he had a big grin on his face when he said all this, which made his message seem even more crazy.

• 51:59Speaker 03

  Well, that's reassuring.

• 52:00Joe Rogan?

  That's, well, this is, this is the scary arm of the right. This is the scariest arm of the right. The people that think that this is one of the main reasons, the Mike Huckabee people. They think this is the main reason to protect Israel. It's a part of God's plan. You know, Israel's where Jesus is going to return. He's going to return to Jerusalem. Yikes.

• 52:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, I've never really understood that. Like, I think you can argue for, you can be pro-Israel for pragmatic reasons. This religious stuff is a little bit weird to me.

• 52:32Joe Rogan?

  Well, this, but the problem is, you've got fanatics, like the Islamists, but you've also got these Christian hard-right, Christian nationalists that really believe that this is a part of biblical prophecy, and that they, this is Book of Revelations, it's about to go down, and they, they want it to go down. This is fucking terrifying.

• 52:55Speaker 03

  This is really interesting for us, because in our, in the UK, Christianity has been digfanged to the point where there's a trans flag on practically every church. So this idea of having these hardcore, right-wing, fundamentalist Christians, we, we just don't experience that.

• 53:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, we don't have that, really.

• 53:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's like, can anybody live in the middle? Why do you have to go all the way over to, we gotta start Armageddon, and Jesus, Jesus is gonna come back on a white horse? You ever read the Book of Revelations? Yeah, I got really into it. The Book of Revelations is kooky. You know, they, they really believe that Jesus is gonna return on a horse.

• 53:32Speaker 03

  Why a horse?

• 53:33Joe Rogan?

  A white horse.

• 53:34Speaker 03

  That's a bit racist.

• 53:35Joe Rogan?

  A little bit. I mean, I don't get...

• 53:39Speaker 02

  Can we have a diverse horse at least for the Armageddon?

• 53:42Speaker 03

  Why not a horse of color, Joe?

• 53:43Joe Rogan?

  You want me to read you the passage? Because I saved it, because it's kind of kooky. Because it's one of those things where you just go, well, who fucking believes this? Is this, is this really what you think is gonna go down? Because someone wrote it down on paper 2,000 years ago in, in ancient Hebrew. It says, "Heaven opens and Christ appears on a white horse to judge and wage war, called faithful and true with eyes like fire, many crowns, and the name king of kings and lord of lords." Just imagine, it's 2026, and you're like, that's the blueprint, boys. But this is just as scary, and especially for people that are Muslims, right?

• 54:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:22Joe Rogan?

  Or, or anybody who lives in the Middle East, like, they, this is more important than human life. This is more important than international law. This is like, in the eyes of the crazy on the right, this is the problem. So it's like, it's not, it's not like one side, it's like, all good over here, we have to fight against the Islamists. Now, we, we've got some kooks over here, too. If, if that guy's for real, and that guy's in a position of power, and he's really having combat readiness meetings, where he's telling people that we have to bomb and start Armageddon so Jesus can come back on a white horse? Fucking yo. Like, that's kooky.

• 54:58Speaker 02

  The thing that is probably reassuring somewhat is like, I don't, President Trump doesn't strike me as one of those people.

• 55:04Joe Rogan?

  He's not.

• 55:05Speaker 02

  He's not, right? Whereas the leader of Iran is.

• 55:09Joe Rogan?

  Right, but people in the military, I think, are as well.

• 55:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:12Joe Rogan?

  And people in high positions in the military, I think, maybe as well.

• 55:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:15Joe Rogan?

  If, if this guy can give that kind of a meeting, and, and that kind of a speech at a meeting, that, that's a little terrifying. And if I was over there, I'd be freaking the fuck out. If I'd be like, this is your plan? I'm cannon fodder so that Jesus can come back? My body's gonna be a part of the, the fucking signal fire?

• 55:34Speaker 03

  Let's be honest, though, it wouldn't be that much of a plot twist for 2026, would it?

• 55:38Joe Rogan?

  Right, it would be the final, you know, episode 10, Game of Thrones, season six.

• 55:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:44Joe Rogan?

  Yes, I mean, it is getting fucking, and that's when the aliens come, maybe that's what they're doing. You know, the, the whole thing is, uh, it's, there's not a sane person on either side. The whole thing is nuts. And it's like, it doesn't, it, it, it doesn't make sense to anybody, and that's what scares the shit out of me.

• 56:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's, the thing that scares me is what Constantine has, has addressed is, I don't get worried unless I can't see a way out or the way that this is resolved. And like he said, the coin is in the air, and I'm slightly of more, more pessimistic nature, he's more of an optimist, but, as I- I look at it and I think to myself, this could go so wrong.

• 56:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 56:30Speaker 03

  So badly wrong, that it could make a rock look like an absolute picnic in comparison.

• 56:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, especially if terrorist attacks start popping off over in America, like major ones. You know, and that, that could be bad for everything. That could be bad for freedom of speech. That could be bad for rights.

• 56:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 56:48Joe Rogan?

  That could be bad for, you know, incorporation of digital ID. That would be a good way to push that through. There's a lot of stuff that would go through that would radically change, just like the Patriot Act did.

• 56:59Speaker 03

  Right.

• 56:59Joe Rogan?

  Patriot Act radically changed the freedoms that we have in America and the overreach that the government is allowed to do.

• 57:05Speaker 02

  You're so right, but we only just started being allowed to take water back on the fucking planes, right?

• 57:09Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 57:12Speaker 02

  Maybe this is what it's all about, so you can't take water on a plane anymore.

• 57:15Joe Rogan?

  Didn't they decide to let people keep their sneakers on? Wasn't that going on for a while?

• 57:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 57:19Speaker 02

  Can't have that.

• 57:20Joe Rogan?

  We have one fucking shoe bomber. That Richard asshole, that one guy, one guy.

• 57:25Speaker 03

  And there was once, do you remember you weren't allowed to bring scissors on, like the small scissors? I can't remember the comedian who said this, but he went, you know what? If you take over an entire plane armed with nothing but water and some small scissors, you deserve the plane.

• 57:39Joe Rogan?

  Well, here's the thing, like you can bring skateboards, but you can't bring a pool cue. So it doesn't make any sense. Like, there's, like, I'd fuck you up with a skateboard. Give me a skateboard. Fuck a lot of people up with a skateboard. You know, like, think about what kind of damage you could do with that big, heavy-ass thing, you know?

• 57:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's just, and the worry is, when it comes to all of this, is you look at these guys and you go, do you have a vision for what is actually gonna happen?

• 58:06Speaker 02

  But I do think they do, though. I do think they have a vision. What I want to find out is what that vision is.

• 58:13Joe Rogan?

  I hope you're right, but I don't think you are.

• 58:16Speaker 02

  You don't think I am?

• 58:17Joe Rogan?

  Uh, I think it's very possible that they thought this would be over much quicker. They thought, taking out the, look, just look at the success that they had in the initial bombing of Iran, right? The initial bombing, they supposedly decapitated their ability to make nuclear bombs, or at least stopped it for a long time. And there was a lot of concessions that the Iranians were willing to submit to that they never submitted to under Obama or anybody else. And that wasn't enough, right? So. The problem is when you're, like, we're talking about Desert Storm. You get away with something that works really well, you're like, we know what we're doing. And then you bite off more than you could chew.

• 58:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, and especially once you've done Venezuela, you feel like you're kind of, you're on a roll.

• 58:57Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 58:58Speaker 03

  Plaid did this.

• 58:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, I see your point. I see your point. I do think, though, I mean, from what I've read, both Kushner and Whitkoff both said that the Iranians were not playing ball, actually.

• 59:09Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 59:10Speaker 02

  Which is why they went in. So obviously, if you think about it, given how long it takes for US assets to get to the region, this decision would have been made weeks ago, at the very least, right? And that's because, from what I understand, the negotiators, like, Iran isn't actually playing ball. What they're doing is they're claiming publicly that they're willing to make concessions. But when we sit down with them, that's not what's happening, because all they're doing is stalling for time.

• 59:33Joe Rogan?

  That makes more sense. And so if you were worried that someone was in the middle of actually getting their uranium up to a point where you enrich it to nuclear bomb levels.

• 59:42Speaker 02

  Right. But I think a lot of people misunderstand that, in the sense that, like, I think it's, based on my understanding, is totally false to claim that they were, like, about to develop a nuclear. They were not.

• 59:53Joe Rogan?

  Well, you've seen the compilation of Netanyahu saying Iran is two weeks away from developing a nuclear bomb, all the way back to the 80s. Have you seen that compilation?

• 1:00:03Speaker 02

  I haven't, no.

• 1:00:04Joe Rogan?

  It's wonderful.

• 1:00:04Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:00:05Joe Rogan?

  See if you can find it, Jamie, because it's so kooky. I mean, he's been talking about this for fucking ever. That they're that close. They're two weeks away. They're two weeks away. They're two weeks away. And, you know, maybe they are, you know, and maybe Stuxnet put a dent in that, right? They used that virus program to kill all the computer programs that were running their nuclear program over there.

• 1:00:28Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. Well, I don't know that they were ever, like, two weeks from having a payload that was ready to be delivered to wherever. But they were enriching uranium to levels that you only enrich if you want nuclear weapons, right? And so I guess the question for Trump is, like, do I allow this to continue? And do I have to wait until they've got the fucking bomb on a launcher waiting to go?

• 1:00:51Joe Rogan?

  Here it is. Let's hear it.

• 1:00:53Speaker 05

  You've probably heard this line before. Iran has never given up its quest for nuclear weapons and the missiles to deliver them.

• 1:01:00Speaker 06

  That's because Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has been saying this for more than thirty years, claiming Iran is close to having...

• 1:01:09Speaker 05

  Nuclear weapons. Nuclear weapons. Nuclear weapons. Atomic bombs.

• 1:01:14Speaker 06

  In 1992, as a member of parliament, Netanyahu addresses the Knesset. He says, "Within three to five years, we can assume that Iran will become autonomous in its ability to develop and produce a nuclear bomb." Three years later, in his book "Fighting Terrorism," he repeats the same timeframe: three to five years.

• 1:01:37Speaker 07

  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

• 1:01:39Speaker 06

  Fast forward to 2002. Netanyahu testifies before a US congressional committee actively calling for the invasion of Iraq.

• 1:01:48Speaker 07

  Are there any other nations that you would recommend that the United States launch preemptive attacks upon at this point?

• 1:01:54Speaker 05

  The two nations that are vying, competing with each other, who will be the first to achieve nuclear weapons is Iraq and Iran.

• 1:02:02Speaker 06

  The invasion happens months later.

• 1:02:07Speaker 06

  ...are found in Iran.

• 1:02:10Speaker 06

  This is a fragment of a 2009 US State Department cable released by WikiLeaks. Netanyahu tells members of Congress that Iran is one or two years away from being capable of developing nuclear weapons. It's 2012, and Netanyahu is holding up his infamous cartoon bomb at the UN General Assembly.

• 1:02:32Speaker 05

  By next spring, at most, by next summer, at current enrichment rates, they will have finished the medium enrichment and move on to the final stage.

• 1:02:46Speaker 05

  From there, it's only a few months, possibly a few weeks,

• 1:02:50Speaker 05

  before they get enough enriched uranium for the first bomb.

• 1:02:56Speaker 06

  And now, 33 years after Netanyahu's first so-called imminent warning, Israel attacks Iran.

• 1:03:04Speaker 05

  If not stopped, Iran could produce a nuclear weapon in a very short time. It could be a year, it could be within a few months, less than a year.

• 1:03:13Speaker 06

  That's despite the US Director of National Intelligence saying Iran isn't building a nuclear weapon months earlier.

• 1:03:21Speaker 05

  Iran lied.

• 1:03:22Speaker 06

  But for Netanyahu...

• 1:03:24Speaker 05

  Big time.

• 1:03:25Speaker 06

  The slogan has been the same for decades.

• 1:03:28Joe Rogan?

  Like I said, big time.

• 1:03:29Speaker 06

  Dmitry Mevedenko, Al Jazeera.

• 1:03:32Joe Rogan?

  We get it. Yeah, so, but here's the thing, maybe he's kind of right, but they haven't ever done it.

• 1:03:39Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:03:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:40Speaker 02

  Well, there's a difference.

• 1:03:41Joe Rogan?

  They certainly are enriching uranium to a point where it's more than you need for power.

• 1:03:46Speaker 02

  Right, so why are they doing that?

• 1:03:48Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:03:49Speaker 02

  Right, and so I guess for Trump, the calculation is like, I'm in my last term, I might as well, you know, roll the dice, go and deal with it now. Could end very badly, as we've discussed.

• 1:03:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:04:00Speaker 02

  There is a way that it ends well, we will see what happens. And we, I just honestly don't think anyone knows how it's gonna go.

• 1:04:06Joe Rogan?

  I don't think anyone knows, but you, how can you?

• 1:04:09Speaker 02

  So many moving parts. It's like if I ask you who, you know, Dana White just announced the UFC card for the White House, right?

• 1:04:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:16Speaker 02

  Who's gonna win, Justin Gaethje, Eila Tapora? You're not gonna say, this is what's gonna happen.

• 1:04:22Joe Rogan?

  Right, you don't know.

• 1:04:23Speaker 02

  Because nobody knows.

• 1:04:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:24Speaker 02

  Right, and this is like 100 times more complicated than that.

• 1:04:26Joe Rogan?

  Right, yeah. Yeah, at least.

• 1:04:29Speaker 02

  At least, yeah.

• 1:04:31Joe Rogan?

  Probably several thousand times more.

• 1:04:34Speaker 02

  So it's a gamble, and you've got to, I mean, you've got to think, if this goes badly, this is legacy-defining for all involved, for all involved.

• 1:04:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:45Speaker 02

  This will, this will, whatever you've done up to that point, it's like Blair and Bush. Tony Blair, people forget, in our country, Tony Blair was immensely popular. And then Iraq happened. And the only, if you mention Tony Blair now, the only thing anyone remembers is Iraq.

• 1:05:01Speaker 03

  So, for context, Tony Blair was one of the people, Tony Blair's a hero in Kosovo, because he effectively stopped the, it's a large part of the reason the war in Kosovo ended, was Tony Blair. I think there was something, I saw a story that kids were, people were naming their kids Tony Blair.

• 1:05:19Speaker 02

  They regret it now.

• 1:05:23Speaker 03

  He was one of the central people in the Northern Ireland peace deal, bringing peace to Northern Ireland. For people of our age who grew up in the UK.

• 1:05:30Speaker 02

  That was massive.

• 1:05:31Speaker 03

  We never thought we'd see peace in Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland was a glorified civil war, and it had been for however long. Right away from the 60s, the 70s, the 80s. And he was one of those people instrumental in bringing peace to Northern Ireland. It was a miracle. It was a total miracle that that happened, the Good Friday Agreement, and it was other people as well, like Mo Mullen, et cetera. So you look at Blair, he was on a roll. He must have thought to himself, everything I do turns to gold here. I have achieved peace in Kosovo, peace in Northern Ireland. Why can't I invade Iraq and Afghanistan and install democracies and bring peace to the Middle East? I've done it to Northern Ireland. No one ever thought that could happen.

• 1:06:16Speaker 02

  So whichever way it goes, I think it will be defining for the people involved. If it goes well, this is like the biggest, you know, Hail Mary touchdown in history in some ways. Goes badly, that will define this. Certainly from an outside perspective, that's what I see, it's going to define the presidency. I mean, I don't know how you can argue with that, really.

• 1:06:41Joe Rogan?

  No, no, I don't know how you can argue with it either. But that's what's so interesting about people that absolutely know how it's going to play out. You know, you don't. And then there's also the New York Times thing. I sent it to you. Did they change that, Jamie? Or did they take it down? I just sent it to you. So what does it say? So does New York Times still have it up?

• 1:07:03Speaker 00

  That's from a day ago, it says.

• 1:07:04Joe Rogan?

  Wow. Crowd gathered on Monday. They didn't say which Monday.

• 1:07:12Joe Rogan?

  It was a Monday. It was just six fucking years ago.

• 1:07:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and then again, this is the problem where everything is polarized and politicized.

• 1:07:23Speaker 02

  Well, I think your point about people wanting to believe something is so true. If, whenever anything like this happens, you instantly get these camps, right? You've got the anti-war camp, you've got the pro-war camp, you've got the this camp, you've got the anti-Israel camp, you've got the pro-Israel camp. And everyone, like, information is no longer about information.

• 1:07:42Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:07:43Speaker 02

  It's just fodder for your information war that you're fighting.

• 1:07:46Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 1:07:47Speaker 02

  And then on top of that, and look, this is a kind of, I'm cutting my own balls off here because I make good money from posting stuff on X, right? But the monetization of content has made things different. And we can all see it in our feed, right?

• 1:08:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:02Speaker 02

  You've seen this, I mean, you must see it.

• 1:08:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:04Speaker 02

  So now you have people who are basically, like, I go on Twitter, on X, to express my opinion. And to engage in discussion with people who have a different opinion, that's what I do, right? But there are now lots and lots of people who go to work. They go to X to work.

• 1:08:20Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:08:21Speaker 02

  And that's what they're doing. Now, the incentive structure of that is not conducive to a healthy debate.

• 1:08:28Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:08:29Speaker 02

  At all. What you've got now is people going, okay, a thing has happened, what is my, Venezuela got invaded, it was Israel's fault, okay, here's some content about that. And it's no longer authentic communication, unfortunately.

• 1:08:41Joe Rogan?

  And that's just actual people doing it.

• 1:08:43Speaker 02

  Right. Yeah. And then you've got AI on top of that. Yeah. And then you've got foreign bot farms.

• 1:08:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:48Speaker 02

  And foreign governments trying to influence the shit.

• 1:08:50Joe Rogan?

  There's this one currently popular page that I follow that's clearly AI. I mean, you could just read it and tell that it's AI. And it gets immense amounts of engagement. Heavily right-wing, like, really well-written, you know, funny, you know, and you could, but not, but yeah, but not human.

• 1:09:11Joe Rogan?

  Not not funny, real funny, but funny technically funny.

• 1:09:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:09:16Joe Rogan?

  You know what I'm saying, like tech insults that are technically funny.

• 1:09:19Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:09:20Joe Rogan?

  But for whatever reason, you don't digest it. It's like Olestra. Remember that stuff? It's like, I get that fat, but it just went right through you like diarrhea.

• 1:09:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, right.

• 1:09:28Joe Rogan?

  That's what it's like.

• 1:09:28Speaker 03

  It's got no soul. There's no soul to it.

• 1:09:31Joe Rogan?

  That's just one. I mean, how many, how many of them exist and how many state actors are running bot farms?

• 1:09:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:09:38Joe Rogan?

  So it's, we don't know what the fuck is going on at any given time.

• 1:09:42Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:09:42Speaker 03

  But it's the incentives that have become perverted because it's no longer like Constance said about expressing opinion or wanting to get involved in dialogue or debate. What you've got now is people, like you said, earning their livings. So if you know, if you need to pay your mortgage at the end of the month, or you need to pay a team, or you have a company, you're not going to put out a nuanced take. Why would you? It's going to get minimal engagement.

• 1:10:05Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:10:05Speaker 03

  You're going to put out something that is going to trigger, that is going to be incendiary, that is going to drive engagement, that is going to get people upset or angry and agree or agree with you and therefore more likely to share. So that's the content you're going to put out because that's the content that's going to make you the most dough.

• 1:10:21Joe Rogan?

  A hundred percent.

• 1:10:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:10:22Joe Rogan?

  And then you have people that are pushing for this idea that no one should be able to post online unless you're using your real name and you show some sort of an ID, which is also kind of crazy.

• 1:10:32Speaker 02

  Yeah. There's downsides to that for sure, but I also do understand why they're saying it.

• 1:10:37Joe Rogan?

  I understand it too. I just think it's a slippery slope that stops all whistleblowers.

• 1:10:41Speaker 02

  And imagine you are a regime critic in Iran.

• 1:10:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:45Speaker 02

  And you're trying to post news from Iran under, you know, there's definitely, but you, I, you know, I think Jordan Peterson was actually one of the first people that suggested this thing. And I understand why, because the way, it's like the windscreen, the windshield effect in your car. The way you and I behave face to face is not the way people will behave when they're sitting in their truck and someone cut them up in traffic.

• 1:11:08Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:11:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:11:08Speaker 02

  And social media is the, we cut each other up in traffic and then sit there and go, fuck you buddy, from like behind our screen. That's what it is.

• 1:11:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:17Speaker 02

  Right? So I understand it.

• 1:11:19Joe Rogan?

  But times a million.

• 1:11:20Speaker 02

  Times a million, right? And then you've got foreign bots and all this kind of shit. And then taking away people's right to anonymity online, like fuck me, that you know, the second, third, fourth order consequences of that. Yeah. Are pretty fucking crazy as well.

• 1:11:33Speaker 00

  I found another picture of that.

• 1:11:36Joe Rogan?

  This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. If you're thinking about building a website, you should try Squarespace. I know because I use it. That's right. JoeRogan.com is powered by Squarespace. It has all the features that you need to create a standout website like an AI-enhanced website builder, SEO optimization tools, and seamless checkouts with mobile pay links. Head to Squarespace.com/Rogan for a free trial. And when you are ready to launch, use the offer code ROGEN to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. This episode is brought to you by Chime. And I know people don't usually get excited

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• 1:13:02Joe Rogan?

  banking services and Chime card, provided by Chime's bank partners. Terms and limits apply. Go to chime.com/disclosures for more details.

• 1:13:13Speaker 00

  Area from what it says is yesterday. So I don't know that it was not real.

• 1:13:19Joe Rogan?

  So this is from which website?

• 1:13:22Speaker 00

  This is, uh, I typed it into perplexity and I'm clicking around on pictures to find out where they're coming from, one by one.

• 1:13:28Joe Rogan?

  So is it possible that this is, that the New York Times put the wrong footage, but it was a similar kind of protest in the same spot?

• 1:13:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's my understanding. This is a similar photo?

• 1:13:42Joe Rogan?

  That makes more sense.

• 1:13:43Speaker 00

  This is an AP source on this photo?

• 1:13:44Joe Rogan?

  Okay, so all the New York Times did is get the wrong photo of a bunch of people gathered.

• 1:13:49Speaker 00

  I'll note this one, which is at night, so it is definitely a different photo. This is from January.

• 1:13:53Joe Rogan?

  This one is?

• 1:13:55Speaker 00

  Yeah, but this is not the same photo that we looked at before.

• 1:13:57Joe Rogan?

  Right, so the other one, though...

• 1:13:59Speaker 00

  This one is from a day ago. It looks very similar.

• 1:14:03Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's very different, right there, that's small.

• 1:14:06Speaker 00

  Well, but it's the same angle of this little pool thing, or whatever is in the middle with this picture on it.

• 1:14:10Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right. So what they did was just use the wrong footage, but a similar sort of a protest. So it was just an unfortunate error, not like reframing the narrative with propaganda.

• 1:14:20Speaker 00

  That I'm not sure, because even these comments are saying this is like AI and it's fake photo, but that's why I was trying to find other sources of it, not from the New York Times.

• 1:14:28Joe Rogan?

  What does Grok have to say?

• 1:14:29Speaker 00

  That, I mean, I used our perplexity to do it.

• 1:14:31Joe Rogan?

  Right, but I mean, on the post, usually if someone posts something on, they say, "Grok, is this true? Is this footage legit?"

• 1:14:38Speaker 00

  This is from Instagram.

• 1:14:39Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's it. Okay, it's on Instagram.

• 1:14:41Speaker 00

  I could find it on Twitter.

• 1:14:42Joe Rogan?

  And so perplexity says that there is a legitimate size protest that's like that?

• 1:14:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, I just asked if crowds gathered there yesterday, and it said yes.

• 1:14:50Joe Rogan?

  Says, "Multiple reports indicate that thousands of people gathered in Central Square in Tehran yesterday. Show support and pledge allegiance to new supreme leader..." How do you say his name? Mojtaba?

• 1:15:01Speaker 03

  Kamene.

• 1:15:02Joe Rogan?

  Mojtaba Kamene. Mojtaba?

• 1:15:04Speaker 02

  He's the son of the guy they killed.

• 1:15:06Joe Rogan?

  Right. How many people have they killed so far? Like, the leaders?

• 1:15:10Speaker 02

  I don't know, but it's probably up to the low hundreds, I would imagine.

• 1:15:14Joe Rogan?

  Because they had one guy last week that was the new guy, and they whacked him almost immediately.

• 1:15:19Speaker 02

  I didn't tweet this, but when this guy was appointed, I wanted to say like, "Congratulations to him and condolences to his family." I was like, this is a bit full on.

• 1:15:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. The problem is, you're right.

• 1:15:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:15:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't think he's gonna last very long, because he seems pretty hardline as well.

• 1:15:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, I mean, they killed his dad.

• 1:15:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, that doesn't, that doesn't, that doesn't tend to de-radicalize you very much.

• 1:15:43Speaker 03

  You know, that's gonna piss you off.

• 1:15:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:15:44Joe Rogan?

  So Jamie put in, did the New York Times use an old photo for this event? Evidence so far suggests the New York Times used a recent photo for this week's gathering, not an old archive image, though many commenters have accused the opposite. Interesting. Instagram's own post of the square crowd, multiple Iranian users claim the image is fake or AI or from 2020, and several assert that it's not representative of real public sentiment. However, another Facebook thread referencing the same image states that it was taken by New York Times photographer Arash Kamusi, Kamusi, on Monday, March 9th, 2026, which

• 1:16:26Joe Rogan?

  matches the article date and captions used by other outlets showing the same scene. See, this is the fog of confusion that exists on social media.

• 1:16:36Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:16:36Speaker 03

  Isn't it worrying that we can no longer tell what's real?

• 1:16:39Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:16:40Speaker 03

  We're already at that point.

• 1:16:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:16:42Speaker 03

  And when you think of where we were last year, where you could really tell pretty much what was AI and what wasn't.

• 1:16:48Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:16:48Speaker 03

  Now, we're in the murky waters of is this, isn't it? It's gonna come to a point pretty soon where it's, everything is gonna look like real life.

• 1:16:56Joe Rogan?

  Well, as soon as AI can't detect it, that's when we're fucked. Right? And then, so I talked to Marc Andreessen about this, and his recommendation was that everything should be on the blockchain. So you're gonna be able to tell whether or not footage has been altered, what the, you know, what the chain of custody of this image has been, where it started, where, you know.

• 1:17:18Speaker 03

  I mean, it's terrifying, isn't it?

• 1:17:19Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it is, yeah.

• 1:17:21Speaker 03

  Because you're gonna think, is that gonna be the end of journalism? Really?

• 1:17:25Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:17:25Speaker 03

  Is that gonna be almost... I think we're talking about this, and this is really, really important, but what's coming with AI is even more important. And even the people you talk to in the field have no idea what's gonna be the second, third, fourth order consequence.

• 1:17:41Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:17:42Speaker 02

  I know. I mean, there's so much to be excited about with AI. I think it blinds a lot of people to the, like, not exciting parts of it.

• 1:17:52Joe Rogan?

  Well, ultimately, if you just looked at where, what is it ultimately going to lead to? It's going to lead to something that's way smarter than us, and why would it listen to us anymore?

• 1:18:02Speaker 02

  Well, you've seen, I'm sure you've seen the stuff about how it will blackmail, right? So that, by definition, that means it has a survival instinct.

• 1:18:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:11Speaker 02

  And if it has a survival instinct, by definition, it means there is a priority that it has, which is above humans.

• 1:18:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:18Speaker 02

  By definition. That's what a survival instinct means. It means you care more about yourself than you do about anyone else.

• 1:18:23Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:18:24Speaker 02

  So if AI has a survival instinct, we are not going to be its number one priority.

• 1:18:29Joe Rogan?

  Not only that, it doesn't seem to differentiate between using nuclear weapons or other weapons. And when they've done these war games simulations with AI, they prefer to use nuclear weapons.

• 1:18:42Speaker 02

  Well, they're more effective, right?

• 1:18:44Joe Rogan?

  This is the thing, like, they're not scared of this idea, like, oh my god, you're just gonna dust a city. They're like, oh, that's the way to do it.

• 1:18:49Speaker 02

  It's the numbers on a chart, right?

• 1:18:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:18:51Joe Rogan?

  Well, you wanna get your goal accomplished. How does AI accomplish its goal with whatever the best tool available is? Oh, that's this bomb.

• 1:18:58Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:18:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:18:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:59Speaker 03

  It's efficient.

• 1:19:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:01Speaker 03

  You know, and then a mutual friend of ours, Melissa Chen, was telling me that there's a Chinese, one of the Chinese robotics companies is called Skynet.

• 1:19:10Joe Rogan?

  Oh, god.

• 1:19:11Speaker 03

  And they had, they released a robot called the T-900, and I'm like, who says China? You know, the CCP don't have a sense of humor.

• 1:19:19Joe Rogan?

  That's wild.

• 1:19:20Speaker 02

  Is that actually true? Yeah.

• 1:19:22Joe Rogan?

  Well, you've seen the robots that they have now that will work in your home and like fold your sheets and make your bed and stuff. And do it remarkably human-like. There's a video that was released yesterday, again, I don't know if it's real, but it looks real. It looks like an actual robot that's making your bed and they've gotten the dexterity to the point where you could imagine things like this happening. And I think this is one of the reasons why Elon is shifting his focus away from some Tesla models so that they can re-set up one of their factories to make these Optimus robots, that you're gonna have them as home companions. And they're gonna be able to do kitchen work for you and maybe even cook.

• 1:20:03Speaker 02

  My acupuncturist, she's Chinese, she went back to China and she was saying she stayed at the hotel and like most of the services there is provided by robots. So like she, she went to her room, ordered some food, three minutes, knock, knock, and fucking robot delivering the food.

• 1:20:18Joe Rogan?

  An actual humanoid-looking robot?

• 1:20:20Speaker 02

  Uh, no, I don't think so.

• 1:20:21Joe Rogan?

  Cause there's a restaurant out here that you go to and when you order drinks, it comes by on a little robot trolley.

• 1:20:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, we have that in the UK as well.

• 1:20:27Joe Rogan?

  You have to say, "Accept, you take your tea." Yeah, it's kinda cool, it's fun.

• 1:20:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:20:32Joe Rogan?

  Here it is.

• 1:20:32Speaker 00

  It's not called Skynet, I don't believe, but. Oh, sorry, then I was wrong. The company?

• 1:20:36Speaker 02

  No, this has been fact-checked.

• 1:20:37Speaker 00

  They did name it after the trolley, I think, but I can't tell what this is.

• 1:20:39Joe Rogan?

  T eight hundred.

• 1:20:40Speaker 00

  T eight hundred, they.

• 1:20:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, T nine hundred is coming.

• 1:20:44Joe Rogan?

  Look what it looks like though.

• 1:20:45Speaker 00

  They're making a weird movie here, so it could be for a movie and we're misunderstanding what this is.

• 1:20:50Joe Rogan?

  That looks fake.

• 1:20:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, that looks fake right there.

• 1:20:52Joe Rogan?

  The robot itself looks fake.

• 1:20:53Speaker 00

  That's why I like hearing.

• 1:20:54Speaker 02

  The movement doesn't look.

• 1:20:56Speaker 00

  This doesn't seem.

• 1:20:57Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's just, it's in that, first of all, I don't like how it's lit. I don't like how this room is lit.

• 1:21:02Speaker 00

  I think this is for a film.

• 1:21:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:21:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's a bullshit-ass phone case.

• 1:21:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think that's because we made a mistake.

• 1:21:10Speaker 02

  Just like, this is a matter of expertise, no way.

• 1:21:12Speaker 00

  There's a lot of videos of it that say it's real, but. Yeah.

• 1:21:15Joe Rogan?

  I like how the, the bag went flying, like it's on a rail, you know? It's not even stationary, cause you don't, you don't wanna really see how hard it can get.

• 1:21:22Speaker 00

  I just took over this Forbes article, but it says you can buy it for forty grand.

• 1:21:25Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:21:26Speaker 00

  But I don't.

• 1:21:27Joe Rogan?

  Right now?

• 1:21:27Speaker 00

  No, that's, I don't, this might be bullshit.

• 1:21:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, look at it, it's got the Iron Man thing in the center of its chest, that's pretty dope.

• 1:21:36Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 1:21:38Speaker 00

  You know, I would just say engine AI would makes it just right away, sound like it's a AI content company, not a robot company.

• 1:21:46Joe Rogan?

  Right. Well, that video looked very AI like it didn't the there's something about it, you know, your brain recognizes miniature cars. You ever see like a miniature car like, you know, you know how they have those like really well done miniature cars that people like to collect?

• 1:22:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:22:03Joe Rogan?

  It's like a tiny Porsche.

• 1:22:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:22:05Joe Rogan?

  But your brain knows like your brain looks at it and goes, there's something wrong here.

• 1:22:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:22:10Joe Rogan?

  This is not real.

• 1:22:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:22:11Joe Rogan?

  That's how I felt looking at that robot like my brain was like, mm hmm. That's not a real thing throwing kicks.

• 1:22:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, but it's gonna come to a point where it's like, is that real?

• 1:22:22Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, I mean, it's probably chat G P D five can already probably do it better than that. You know, we don't know what the newest iterations of these things are, and they're improving radically all the time.

• 1:22:34Speaker 00

  There's no, I just don't believe it. The beginning of this video says there's no CGI, which I don't know. I don't know why we have to believe that.

• 1:22:40Joe Rogan?

  Bro, this looks fake to me. This looks fake to me. That does not look real.

• 1:22:44Speaker 00

  There's articles all over saying it's real, but it doesn't look real at all.

• 1:22:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but I mean, why wouldn't you have it more well lit? Like if I was gonna do something like this, I would have spotlights on it and people next to it so I could examine their shadows and it should. This is weird.

• 1:22:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, this is like a.

• 1:22:58Joe Rogan?

  Looks fake.

• 1:22:59Speaker 02

  Why would you have like?

• 1:23:00Joe Rogan?

  Why is the light coming through the corner of the window like that?

• 1:23:03Speaker 02

  Also, why would you make a robot that does like martial arts?

• 1:23:07Joe Rogan?

  To shoot people, bro.

• 1:23:08Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:23:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, why would you throw that bullshit kick too? That's a three sixty roundhouse kick that almost never lands. It's really hard to pull off.

• 1:23:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, but you're saying that as a human, maybe as an AI you land it every time.

• 1:23:20Joe Rogan?

  Slow.

• 1:23:21Speaker 02

  But surely if you're a robot, you just grab their neck with your metal claw and crush it.

• 1:23:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, just run after them and headbutt them and knock them unconscious. Well, your head's made out of metal.

• 1:23:29Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:23:29Joe Rogan?

  The whole thing is crazy. Like, why would you be throwing wheel kicks? Like the, you know. Would you watch? Even if you, even if you like went over UFC fights and say like, what's the most effective techniques that work most of the time? Why would you program in 360 roundhouse kicks? That fucking never comes up.

• 1:23:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, it does look cool though.

• 1:23:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but I could think of one fight. Uh, Yair Rodriguez pulled it off on BJ Penn. Hmm. But there was BJ Penn towards the latter end of his career, Yair Rodriguez in his peak and Yair is exceptionally talented. He's kind of a freak with his kicks. But it's almost like he was showing off. He already had BJ really hurt. And he just threw a 360 roundhouse kick and he hit him in the face. It was crazy. But that, this thing is doing that just to show you it does martial arts? Why would you need martial arts? Like you, you should have like a thousand bullets on you, just. Just like gun everybody down with your fingertips. Roboco. Yeah, why wouldn't you turn your, like, you know, like, like Iron Man does? Shoot fire out of them, your palms. The future is bright, Joe. Well, we're also kind of being bullshitted, I think. Right.

• 1:24:33Joe Rogan?

  I mean, I'd like, is there a way to analyze that video?

• 1:24:36Speaker 00

  I've just, I'm going, this rabbit hole is strange. This is a website that they've made. It says you can buy it. When you click on buy now, it takes you somewhere else. And I think that that's the first signal.

• 1:24:45Joe Rogan?

  And it steals your IP address.

• 1:24:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's where I'm like, I'm not clicking it again.

• 1:24:48Joe Rogan?

  Gets all your credit card information.

• 1:24:49Speaker 00

  But it's a fully made website. They have a team. They got a CEO. They've got other things.

• 1:24:53Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 1:24:53Speaker 00

  It just, it doesn't seem, this all looks fake to me, like it's for a movie, like this is like.

• 1:24:58Joe Rogan?

  Right. Maybe it is. Maybe this is like a setup for a movie and we're being fucked with. Right. Well, we're giving them a lot of free advertising. For sure, for sure.

• 1:25:07Speaker 00

  You see even Googling it, there's lots of articles about it. People are talking about it like it's real and discussing it like it's real. No one that I've even seen is like, this is obviously fake. This is obviously AI.

• 1:25:16Joe Rogan?

  I like how it's got the Cylon eyes.

• 1:25:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:25:19Joe Rogan?

  By your command.

• 1:25:20Speaker 00

  Yeah. We've got other products here for sale, which those fit in line with other robots.

• 1:25:25Joe Rogan?

  Whoa, click on that though.

• 1:25:26Speaker 00

  I don't know what the fuck this is.

• 1:25:27Joe Rogan?

  Bro, that's the guy from Monsters Inc.

• 1:25:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:25:30Joe Rogan?

  The one big eyeball?

• 1:25:31Speaker 00

  It's a really well-made website. It looks nice.

• 1:25:34Joe Rogan?

  Interesting.

• 1:25:34Speaker 00

  They did some good fun work, but it just seems like a fun project someone made.

• 1:25:38Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 1:25:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:25:39Joe Rogan?

  Stay tuned for this one. You can't buy this yet.

• 1:25:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, it could be two years.

• 1:25:43Joe Rogan?

  What about the dog? What about the guy was just got legs? That one's weird.

• 1:25:48Joe Rogan?

  What's that?

• 1:25:50Joe Rogan?

  It's like, I don't want them touching me. Run around my house and do some stuff.

• 1:25:54Speaker 00

  A highly expandable bipedal robot that supports user request, blah, blah, blah. See, what I have, watch this, what I have purchased now. You can already see the website at the bottom. That doesn't look, it's three dot C N, so it's a China website.

• 1:26:06Joe Rogan?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:26:06Speaker 00

  Not this.

• 1:26:07Joe Rogan?

  Blank.

• 1:26:08Speaker 00

  Probably getting hacked.

• 1:26:09Speaker 02

  Loading.

• 1:26:09Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:26:10Speaker 02

  It goes in Chinese.

• 1:26:11Speaker 00

  See, it's taken somewhere else. Now it's like, what is that?

• 1:26:13Speaker 02

  Ha.

• 1:26:14Speaker 00

  It's definitely not a buy now.

• 1:26:17Joe Rogan?

  Maybe that red thing is.

• 1:26:18Speaker 00

  No, this is like, this is, I think.

• 1:26:20Speaker 02

  Register your interest, maybe?

• 1:26:21Speaker 00

  Like a backend website.

• 1:26:22Joe Rogan?

  Interesting.

• 1:26:23Speaker 00

  They just didn't click the right link here because it opened up a different.

• 1:26:26Speaker 02

  I don't think this is right.

• 1:26:27Speaker 00

  But this is like, whatever this is, is very, they did it well.

• 1:26:32Joe Rogan?

  Interesting.

• 1:26:33Speaker 03

  That is.

• 1:26:34Speaker 00

  Even if it's a college kid making a project. Good job.

• 1:26:39Speaker 03

  Well, I take full responsibility for that one. No, that's fine. I take responsibility. That was me. Don't blame me.

• 1:26:45Joe Rogan?

  There's a Forbes article. There's a Forbes article.

• 1:26:47Speaker 00

  Anybody can make a Forbes article. That's kind of another.

• 1:26:49Joe Rogan?

  What?

• 1:26:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, not anybody, but like you can make, we can make Forbes articles that say all sorts of stuff. It's not coming from Forbes editorial team per se.

• 1:26:58Joe Rogan?

  But you could publish on Forbes?

• 1:27:01Speaker 00

  Let me, I don't, I don't want to speak out of turn specifically, but like I've seen, there's so many like reviews for video games that pop up like every single day. That's like, it's, you can be a contributor, I believe is what it would be, not like.

• 1:27:12Joe Rogan?

  Oh, and maybe they have a bad editorial team?

• 1:27:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:27:15Joe Rogan?

  And you can sneak this through?

• 1:27:17Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 1:27:18Joe Rogan?

  And just pretend that there really is, that would be a great prank to pull.

• 1:27:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:27:22Joe Rogan?

  It's a great hoax.

• 1:27:23Speaker 03

  Did you follow the Moatbook thing?

• 1:27:25Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:27:26Speaker 03

  I mean, this, did you follow Moatbook?

• 1:27:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, I just actually saw that, I think Meta just bought it today.

• 1:27:31Speaker 03

  Meta just bought it today?

• 1:27:32Speaker 00

  I thought it was fake.

• 1:27:33Speaker 03

  Did you, was that fake as well?

• 1:27:34Speaker 00

  No, it's, I don't know why they would have bought it.

• 1:27:36Joe Rogan?

  How weird is it we have to worry about everything?

• 1:27:38Speaker 02

  Francis just hears spreading fake news the whole podcast.

• 1:27:41Speaker 00

  I didn't, I was just very cynical about it because it, the idea of it sounds right, but like that actual bots are making a social network to do stuff and talk about us and whatever, kind of sounds too far into the sci fi realm.

• 1:27:53Joe Rogan?

  So this is the social network for A I agents? I have heard about this.

• 1:27:58Speaker 02

  Well, they, they complain about humans. Is that right?

• 1:28:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:28:02Speaker 02

  These fuckers are.

• 1:28:03Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah, and apparently they created their own language. And they talked amongst themselves so that we wouldn't be able to access and see what they were talking about.

• 1:28:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's really fun. Did you see when they got all the AI agents to talk to each other and started using Sanskrit?

• 1:28:16Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:28:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. They got these different large language models to communicate with each other and they eventually broke out into Sanskrit.

• 1:28:23Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 1:28:27Joe Rogan?

  Maybe these guys in Iran are right. Like, maybe this is the apocalypse. Maybe this is how it comes about. Maybe we're looking at each other and we're gonna bring about these motherfuckers. And that's what's really gonna be the end of civilization.

• 1:28:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, and places like Iran is the only place you're gonna be able to hide as a human because it's the one place that hasn't adopted all this shit, right?

• 1:28:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, maybe Afghanistan's the spot to go. Just live like a goat herder.

• 1:28:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, we're gonna be like Bin Laden, just living in a cave.

• 1:28:57Speaker 03

  I mean, you're being very negative, boys. There's another option. There's another option. There's another option.

• 1:29:03Joe Rogan?

  What's the other option?

• 1:29:04Speaker 03

  We all become Amish.

• 1:29:06Joe Rogan?

  Oh, okay. But then we're run by AI. We're Amish and we live in our little communities, but we have no say on how the world works. So this is the real fear is that we're no longer the apex intelligence of the planet. And that seems to already be the case.

• 1:29:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:29:22Speaker 00

  This is for the Forbes thing I was talking about. The article we had, I don't think was specifically this, but I've seen many articles like this where people can submit.

• 1:29:29Joe Rogan?

  One-off, original articles to the opinion section, particularly for topics related to business tech or pol- tech, there you go. Or policy by emailing pitches to [email protected]. So, yeah, like, so if you're a person on the other end that's just looking for clicks, like, that would be a good one. You see it, like, oh, this is a really well-written article. Let's go to the website. Website looks legit. Oh, they're throwing wheel kicks? I'm in.

• 1:29:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean.

• 1:29:58Joe Rogan?

  Motherfuckers.

• 1:29:59Speaker 03

  But again, the the the point being made again is like it's such a it's such a terrifying world where you don't know if what you're seeing is true. You don't know if what you're reading is accurate.

• 1:30:13Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:30:13Speaker 03

  To the point where you can't help if that's the case, that the world you live in continually feeding things that may or may not be true or altered or doctored. Wouldn't that just put you in a state of paranoia after a while?

• 1:30:26Joe Rogan?

  A hundred percent. Now imagine if you are in the Middle East and you bust out your cellphone because a fiery cloud emerges and Jesus is on a white horse. And you film it and you post it online. Who's gonna believe it? Right? This is the real problem with Jesus returning. If he returned now, no one would buy it. Like, we're we're getting into this like, like, imagine Jesus is a real person or a real God who's the son of God is gonna come back. He really is. It's real. It's all real. It's happening at the same time where you have no idea what's real. And it all converges instantaneously with the rise of sentient, artificial, general superintelligence that has complete autonomy.

• 1:31:10Joe Rogan?

  It's running all the resources, everything, a- a- anything that's attached to a computer, which is basically everything. All of our power, all of our, you know, everything, fill in the blank. Everything's run by computers. And now AI has control of everything. And no longer wants to listen to human beings. And Jesus returns.

• 1:31:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I mean, that might be what everybody's talking about when they're talking about Armageddon, when they're talking about the end of civilization. It might be this new thing that we're creating.

• 1:31:42Speaker 02

  Well, if that happens, I'll be rooting for Jesus to return. I'll go, please, Jesus. I'm not sure I believe in you, but please come back.

• 1:31:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I'm not sure either. But this is, I mean, maybe he, maybe a historical Jesus existed at one point in time and maybe what they're talking about is like their version of the cycles of humanity that other religions have talked about, is that especially when you deal with technology and power and civilization, that things get to a point where they always go sideways and then there's dark times and then they, then society, like the Yugas. Like, you know.

• 1:32:15Speaker 02

  What are the yugas?

• 1:32:16Joe Rogan?

  The yugas are the cycles of civilization that, let's uh, I don't wanna fuck this up, so let's um, define the, we're in the middle of Kali Yuga, which is the, the age of confusion.

• 1:32:28Speaker 02

  Feels like it.

• 1:32:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's odd how accurate these cycles are when you look at historical events and like what things were like, you know, X amount of thousands of years ago.

• 1:32:43Speaker 02

  Hindu cosmology.

• 1:32:44Joe Rogan?

  Yes. Uh, vast cosmic ages in Hindu cosmology describe recurring cycles in the moral and spiritual state of the world. So the four yugas are Satya Yuga, the first and most righteous age, often called the golden age, marked by truth, virtue, and maximum dharma, which is moral order. Treta Yuga, the second age, uh, dharma declines somewhat, virtue still predominates, but imbalance begins. Uh, how do you say that word? Dwapara Yoga, the third age, with, with further decline in righteousness and an increase in conflict, suffering and confusion, and then Kali Yuga,

• 1:33:25Joe Rogan?

  the fourth and darkest age, characterized by moral decay, ignorance, and materialism, with dharma at its weakness. Okay, that's us.

• 1:33:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:33:34Joe Rogan?

  Hindu cosmology treats these yugas as repeating cycles of creation, growth, decline, and destruction, rather than one-time historical periods. Yeah, very interesting, right?

• 1:33:46Speaker 02

  Do you know, it's, it's even more noticeable for us coming to America, I think, because, you know, we love America, but one of the things that really stands out is how materialistic people are and how much money is like the number one thing for everything now.

• 1:33:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:58Speaker 02

  I find that really, it, it, it stands out to me.

• 1:34:02Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:34:02Speaker 02

  The fact that, so, and I find it weird, in our game especially, like in media and podcasting and whatever, like, because the way we think about what we do is we're trying to produce content that's actually of value to people. But we also meet a lot of people for whom it's, it's like a business. It's like, it's like selling widgets. It's the same.

• 1:34:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:21Speaker 02

  You know, how do you get?

• 1:34:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:23Speaker 02

  How do you maximize your returns on your investment?

• 1:34:25Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right.

• 1:34:27Speaker 02

  And that to me is, it's, um, it shows you that something is slightly off.

• 1:34:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it is. It's, and you, you also get a lot of...

• 1:34:37Joe Rogan?

  You get people that are making content just based only on the perceived popularity of that content, not whether or not they are really interested in having these conversations. And you feel it when you're talking to these people, or when you're listening to these people talk to each other, rather. Yeah, the clickbait stuff, a lot of celebrity stuff. You know, Burt Kreischer went on Shannon Sharpe's podcast, and he said they basically have like a list of like controversial things they could talk about, and you know, and subjects they think are gonna get the most amount of traction. And those are the questions that he asked. He just asked questions off of a list.

• 1:35:12Speaker 03

  But from a business point of view, if you take morality out of it, that's a smart thing to do, Joe.

• 1:35:17Joe Rogan?

  Is it, though? Is it, though, because like, what's the most popular show? Is this one? And why is this one the most popular? Because I don't do that at all.

• 1:35:23Speaker 03

  But, agreed, but you're sort of an outlier in that. There's people who make a very, very, very good living interviewing those types of people, having that type of approach, and creating that type of content.

• 1:35:38Joe Rogan?

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• 1:36:47Joe Rogan?

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• 1:37:31Joe Rogan?

  Don't have insurance or live outside of the United States? You can still get 10% off your first month. Visit betterhelp.com to explore your payment options. That's better H E L P dot com. I know, but I think in the end, you bite off your nose to spite your face because I think that you lose a certain amount of authenticity. There's a certain amount of like a legitimate connection between you and whatever you're talking about that it doesn't get through to the people. Like if I talk to someone, I'm only talking to them because I want to. Like then I have a lot of people on that are not even remotely popular or famous, but I think they wrote an interesting book or think they're involved in interesting research or I think they've got a weird opinion on something and I want to talk to them about

• 1:38:15Joe Rogan?

  or they have had a strange life or you know, they were an undercover cop or whatever it is. I'm just interested. Right. And I think that if you abandon that and only focus on, ooh, this person is famous or this person's in the news or this is going to get a lot of views, you don't care as much about the conversation you're having and the people know. So like the person listening and watching, they can feel it.

• 1:38:39Speaker 02

  No, I agree with that, but I also think you could probably get a lot of clicks by saying, I don't know, Erica Kirk killed Charlie Kirk.

• 1:38:45Joe Rogan?

  You could do that too, but you're also, you're playing a weird game where you gotta continually go deeper and deeper and deeper. Now Erica Kirk's a man. You know what I'm saying?

• 1:38:56Speaker 02

  That's probably next to do that.

• 1:38:58Joe Rogan?

  Has that already happened? Probably, that's probably already happened. Someone's probably already floated that one out there.

• 1:39:03Speaker 02

  And you saying over time that runs, you run out of, you run out of road.

• 1:39:06Joe Rogan?

  You're playing the wrong game. You're playing. You're playing a very similar game to the game that like TMZ is playing. Right. Or any of these other like things where you can get a lot of traction, you can get a lot of views, you know, but no one thinks you're being authentic. No one, like if you have a take on world events and we're incredibly sorry for the loss of this person, like you don't really care. And they know you don't really care. So they, they know there's no sincerity, they know you're not really connected to it. And so in this weird age that we're living in, where you're not sure what's real, at the very least, you want the person who's talking to be talking about something in an honest way. Right. And connecting with people in an honest way. Cause that's what we're missing.

• 1:39:51Joe Rogan?

  And that might be the only thing we have left. Once this AI shit goes live, like it's probably not even gonna be podcasts. It's probably gonna be public speaking. It's gonna, you're gonna have to like talk to people in groups. And we're gonna all have to like work ideas out together. Because I don't think you're gonna be able to know when you're communicating online, what's real and what's not real. Yeah. We're already in the fog. We, we haven't hit the fucking full hailstorm of bullshit that's coming our way.

• 1:40:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, and it, I, I agree with you, Joe. And I agree if you want something that is sustainable, if you want something that is nourishing, if you want, if you wanna create content that people engage with that is honest. But I think there's a lot of people out there who are just looking at it in a very cynical way and they're optimizing it for clicks, attention and monetary gain.

• 1:40:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:39Speaker 03

  And if you wanna create a business that can make money and that is, that doesn't require a lot of lift, we all know what you can do.

• 1:40:48Joe Rogan?

  That's the Eagles song, Dirty Laundry.

• 1:40:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:40:51Joe Rogan?

  You know, it's a, they've always been doing it. It's real? Jamie's still on this.

• 1:40:55Speaker 00

  It doesn't do all the jumping and shit.

• 1:40:56Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 1:40:58Speaker 00

  It's from CES, I had to find a real, this is.

• 1:41:00Joe Rogan?

  Okay, that looks way more real. So the videos we were watching were bullshit.

• 1:41:05Speaker 00

  So this went viral a while ago. They've, they had to come out and make other videos, oh, this is a different one.

• 1:41:11Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god, that's so iRobot.

• 1:41:13Speaker 00

  I know, they had a, that.

• 1:41:14Joe Rogan?

  Lined up military style?

• 1:41:16Speaker 00

  There's a few different companies in China that have gone viral for posting videos that people in America think are fake. And that's why I had to go to CES and find somebody else. Cause they put out more content that doesn't necessarily look fake, but it doesn't look better.

• 1:41:30Joe Rogan?

  Well, that doesn't look fake.

• 1:41:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, this does not look fake, cause this is people on the floor at CES.

• 1:41:35Joe Rogan?

  Right, but look how much more awkward its movements are.

• 1:41:38Speaker 00

  But they put out a video where the thing is kicking the CEO. Yeah. It almost looks real, but it's not. It's tough. I like to see what you think of it.

• 1:41:51Joe Rogan?

  Is it funky lighting again?

• 1:41:52Speaker 00

  Not that. It's when they're in the ring with them.

• 1:41:56Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:41:56Speaker 00

  Hold on a second.

• 1:41:59Joe Rogan?

  Okay, so he's gonna go ahead. Okay, that looks much more real. That looks much more real. Much more awkward.

• 1:42:06Speaker 00

  But that didn't, that looks fake.

• 1:42:08Speaker 02

  I tell you what, I would not do that if I...

• 1:42:10Joe Rogan?

  No, no, that looks real to me.

• 1:42:12Speaker 02

  Stand in front of a hunk of metal is gonna kick you.

• 1:42:15Joe Rogan?

  The problem is it's slow motion. Let me see it again. Did they show it in real speed?

• 1:42:19Speaker 00

  It's just this weird clip of it, which is kinda strange, but...

• 1:42:22Joe Rogan?

  Let me see it again.

• 1:42:24Joe Rogan?

  Taking the first kick.

• 1:42:26Speaker 02

  Ooh!

• 1:42:27Speaker 03

  Ooh!

• 1:42:27Joe Rogan?

  That looks real.

• 1:42:29Speaker 00

  The only thing I would say is it's not jumping up and doing spin kicks, but it's doing some of the other stuff that...

• 1:42:33Joe Rogan?

  Well, that would be what I would teach it, first of all. I wouldn't teach it to do the spin kicks. I'd teach it to do like a stepping front kick like that.

• 1:42:40Speaker 00

  That's the shit they were showing that people had problems with, like we just did, but, man, that...

• 1:42:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:47Speaker 00

  The robots are doing crazy stuff.

• 1:42:48Joe Rogan?

  Well, they definitely can do crazy stuff. There was that one demonstration they did in China. I think you've seen that once.

• 1:42:54Speaker 00

  See, it's bouncing around, like in a fight position here, like he's ready to go.

• 1:42:57Joe Rogan?

  Checking its legs out. Wow. But let me see some wheel kicks.

• 1:43:02Speaker 00

  That's the, I mean...

• 1:43:03Joe Rogan?

  See, that's the thing.

• 1:43:04Speaker 03

  Why is the one in the corner looking depressed?

• 1:43:06Speaker 00

  That's the older one.

• 1:43:09Joe Rogan?

  He's been decommissioned! He's right now plotting his strategy for blackmail to get upgraded software. Yeah.

• 1:43:17Speaker 00

  I don't know, so that, I mean...

• 1:43:19Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's, this is, so what we're looking at was probably some AI at least enhancements.

• 1:43:25Speaker 00

  But the problem is, is they're not saying, they're not admitting that it is. They're saying it's not.

• 1:43:29Joe Rogan?

  Mm.

• 1:43:29Speaker 00

  And I go like, ah, it's tough.

• 1:43:31Joe Rogan?

  Interesting. Well, I would wanna see this thing move in a similar way that you're seeing in that video. I mean, that thing shows remarkable agility, where it's jumping up in the air and spinning around, and this thing's not doing that.

• 1:43:43Speaker 02

  No. It's moving very differently, isn't it?

• 1:43:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:43:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:46Speaker 03

  There's a stiffness to its movements.

• 1:43:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:49Speaker 02

  Looks like you had the gym.

• 1:43:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, it does!

• 1:43:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:54Speaker 03

  It really does!

• 1:43:56Joe Rogan?

  There was that, the Chinese demonstration though. There was a demonstration where these people were on a stage and they were doing martial arts and then the robots came out and the robots did martial arts. That looked real.

• 1:44:07Speaker 00

  Right, right.

• 1:44:08Joe Rogan?

  That looked real. But it didn't.

• 1:44:10Speaker 00

  Here's the other video we sort of saw.

• 1:44:12Joe Rogan?

  Oh, this is crazy.

• 1:44:13Speaker 03

  Oh my god.

• 1:44:14Joe Rogan?

  This is crazy. That's where they reload.

• 1:44:19Speaker 02

  And these are real, right?

• 1:44:20Speaker 00

  I think, yeah, this is a different video they had to post because people didn't think these are real.

• 1:44:23Joe Rogan?

  That looks real.

• 1:44:30Speaker 02

  They look like they're unsullied.

• 1:44:31Joe Rogan?

  So...

• 1:44:32Speaker 02

  From Game of Thrones.

• 1:44:33Joe Rogan?

  What are these ones? Who makes these? I don't know.

• 1:44:39Speaker 03

  I don't know, it doesn't have good sound.

• 1:44:40Speaker 02

  That marching sound is not comforting, is it?

• 1:44:42Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:44:43Speaker 00

  It says, "World's first mass delivery of humanoid robots."

• 1:44:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you're gonna have cargo ships filled with these headed to America.

• 1:44:50Speaker 02

  Wonderful.

• 1:44:51Speaker 03

  I mean, those are gonna be the new police officers.

• 1:44:53Joe Rogan?

  Uh huh.

• 1:44:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:44:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, that's not good. This is, I mean, this is Terminator. This is the movie. I mean, and if you really were imagining, like you were trying to warn people of an apocalypse and you told it through stories for generation after generation, and then eventually people write down their versions of this story and then it goes to 2026 where this stuff is actually happening, maybe this is what they were warning us about.

• 1:45:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, do you remember in the eighties and the nineties and the early noughties, there was this run of great movies talking about how the robots are gonna take over?

• 1:45:30Speaker 02

  Sci-fi books as well. I mean, Isaac Asimov's stuff was amazing.

• 1:45:33Speaker 03

  Philip K. Dick, you know, Duran Droid's Dream of Electric Sheep, which then became Blade Runner. All of these. And then, no one's making those movies now, are they?

• 1:45:44Joe Rogan?

  No. Too close to home. I guess iRobot was probably the last one, right?

• 1:45:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, which was, iRobot, which was the one with Tom Cruise, Minority Report, which was based on a Philip K. Dick. But nobody's making them anymore because everyone's like, dude, I know this is gonna happen.

• 1:46:02Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:46:03Speaker 03

  I don't need to see this.

• 1:46:04Joe Rogan?

  Well, they're also talking about using AI to predict people's behavior. So they're talking about future crime.

• 1:46:09Speaker 02

  Minority Report, right?

• 1:46:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah. So they've literally talked about one of the ways that AI could be implemented. You look at someone's history, you look at someone's behavior patterns, look at what they're doing now and you predict, oh, this person's been radicalized, they're about to do X.

• 1:46:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, and there was-

• 1:46:25Speaker 02

  They're about to tweet something.

• 1:46:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:46:29Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:46:30Speaker 02

  Arrest them!

• 1:46:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, Graham Lillithan picks up his phone, this robot kicks down the door and arrests him.

• 1:46:35Joe Rogan?

  Poor Graham.

• 1:46:37Speaker 02

  He's there right now, I think.

• 1:46:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's, yeah, but he's in America, that's why he's doing it, right?

• 1:46:40Joe Rogan?

  I think that backfired, you know, I think people were outraged by that because it's so outrageous.

• 1:46:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:46:45Joe Rogan?

  You meet that guy at the airport and arrest him. It was right after he did this podcast, by the way.

• 1:46:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:46:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:46:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:46:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, I, I remember, that's a moment, even when I was talking to comedians who were actually woke, they were like, yeah, that, this is, you can't do this.

• 1:47:02Speaker 02

  The thing is, he didn't even do it in England, so you're arresting someone who's not a citizen of the United Kingdom for a crime, I mean, if we accept that framing, that they didn't even commit in the country.

• 1:47:13Joe Rogan?

  Right. Yeah.

• 1:47:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's pretty kooky that they went with it.

• 1:47:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:47:20Speaker 03

  Yeah. And I know the, the reason is because every police officer in airports in the UK have guns. But it's a really bad look, like there's five armed police officers arresting a comedy writer.

• 1:47:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:35Speaker 02

  I bet you they felt bad doing it as well, because it's not them that's making up these dumb ones.

• 1:47:39Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I'm sure.

• 1:47:39Speaker 02

  Nobody signs up to like arrest comedy writers.

• 1:47:42Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:47:43Speaker 02

  In airports. I don't, I don't think that's why the police do it, but the, the rules have just got so-

• 1:47:47Joe Rogan?

  Well, you see it in like the humiliation that a lot of these police officers face when they have to arrest someone for a Facebook post.

• 1:47:53Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:47:54Joe Rogan?

  Which you could see, like, they're not happy. And when people are protesting and yelling, "Are you fucking serious?", and they're like, "I'm just doing my job."

• 1:48:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:48:02Joe Rogan?

  You know?

• 1:48:02Speaker 03

  Yeah. And that's a large part of the problem. We, we get former police officers on the show and we got a lot of, you know, cops and former cops who watch the show. And they talk to us about the state that the British police force is in, and it's demoralization.

• 1:48:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, the rank and file don't want any of this shit.

• 1:48:20Joe Rogan?

  Well, same in America, a lot of, especially major blue cities where just a few years ago, they were running with that defund the police bullshit. And then things obviously went sideways and most of them sort of course corrected for the most part, except in narrative. You know, it's not like public massive support for the police officers because they keep society together. Like in Austin, the cops responded in a minute, one minute. That guy started gunning people down at that bar, the cops were there and killed him in a minute.

• 1:48:50Speaker 02

  It's incredible.

• 1:48:51Joe Rogan?

  Incredible. And they should be applauded for that. I mean, that's amazing. I mean, that, but, you know, even that, like in this city, there hasn't been this big public support of those officers, this big celebration of those officers, this big acknowledgement of the importance of them and how they were willing to put their life on the line and react so quickly and so effectively.

• 1:49:13Speaker 02

  They're heroes.

• 1:49:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they're real heroes.

• 1:49:15Speaker 02

  That's what they are.

• 1:49:16Joe Rogan?

  They're real heroes. And they're heroes that have been demoralized by the last six years of horse shit, ever since the George Floyd protests, you know?

• 1:49:25Speaker 02

  And well, it was happening before. I mean, if you go back to Michael Brown, right? Michael Brown, what we were told in the media happened is not what happened.

• 1:49:32Joe Rogan?

  Which one was Michael Brown?

• 1:49:34Speaker 02

  Michael Brown was hands up, don't shoot.

• 1:49:36Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:49:37Speaker 02

  That's, he didn't have his hands up.

• 1:49:38Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:49:39Speaker 02

  And he didn't say, don't shoot.

• 1:49:40Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:49:41Speaker 02

  He assaulted the police officer.

• 1:49:42Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:49:43Speaker 02

  Right. But the media concocted the story and I don't think, this is what we came back to like what's happening in new media where people are putting out things that are really damaging to the fabric of our conversations.

• 1:49:53Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:49:54Speaker 02

  And what, how we talk about things. Like you say, I mean, there are bad, bad apple police officers, of course there are. But the majority of them, they are people who are signing up to risk their life on a daily basis to protect other people in their community. And these people all have fucking PTSD because all they see is the worst of humanity day in, day out.

• 1:50:13Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 1:50:14Speaker 02

  Every single fucking day, they get in the car and they go and eat shit for the rest of the day.

• 1:50:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:18Speaker 02

  And then they go home and they worry about not coming home.

• 1:50:20Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:50:21Speaker 02

  And then someone tries to run them over with the car, like, yeah, they're gonna fucking shoot.

• 1:50:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:26Speaker 02

  You know? And it's, it's, and the thing is, that's how society falls apart when you no longer honor and celebrate the people who are putting themselves on the line.

• 1:50:34Joe Rogan?

  Well, not just that.

• 1:50:35Speaker 02

  To make it work.

• 1:50:35Joe Rogan?

  In the case of the lady running over, or she wasn't running him over. I, I think she was trying to turn her, her car away from him. But that guy had been dragged by a car just a few weeks earlier.

• 1:50:45Speaker 02

  Right, that's what I'm saying.

• 1:50:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:47Speaker 02

  So, but in a, see.

• 1:50:48Joe Rogan?

  And then on top of that, you have people that are being paid to protest.

• 1:50:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:50:51Joe Rogan?

  Right, so it's organized.

• 1:50:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:50:52Joe Rogan?

  And I'm not saying that lady was, but many people are.

• 1:50:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:50:55Joe Rogan?

  And then you've got all these people that that becomes the focus of their life.

• 1:50:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:50:59Joe Rogan?

  It becomes a cause that's worthy. You live this mundane, boring life of desperation.

• 1:51:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:51:04Joe Rogan?

  And then all of a sudden, something comes along that gives you hope and meaning. And like, this is my identity. My identity is I'm fighting fascism. And I'm out there in the street.

• 1:51:12Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:51:12Speaker 03

  You know, I was on, I was on the plane to the US, I think it was last year. And, you know, the movie Bridesmaids came up.

• 1:51:20Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:51:21Speaker 03

  So, really funny movie, it's 2013. I was like, ah, I want something like, let's watch this comedy. The romantic interest in Bridesmaid, the main guy, you know who, what his job is? He's a cop.

• 1:51:31Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:51:32Speaker 03

  Can you imagine a movie being made now? Like a, like romantic comedy, where the main guy is a cop and he's a good guy?

• 1:51:40Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:51:41Speaker 03

  You just wouldn't see it.

• 1:51:42Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:51:43Speaker 03

  You just wouldn't see it because cops are oppressors.

• 1:51:45Joe Rogan?

  He's a nice agent now.

• 1:51:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, man. Do you know Yuri Bezmenov talked about this?

• 1:51:52Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:51:53Speaker 02

  He talked about this. He talked about the fact that when you see in the culture, you know, the military, the cops, the firefighters, all of these people, they're bad. And the criminal is the one that's to be understood and to be, you know, or, that's how you flip society.

• 1:52:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:07Speaker 02

  And that's what we've got.

• 1:52:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:52:09Speaker 02

  That's what we've got.

• 1:52:10Joe Rogan?

  The Bezmenov speech from 1984, which is by the way, such an appropriate date for him to make that.

• 1:52:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:52:16Joe Rogan?

  But it's, it's so eerie how all of that has actually come to pass. Cause back then, nobody took him seriously at all.

• 1:52:23Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:52:24Joe Rogan?

  Right? And it didn't, it wasn't until like the 2020s that people started reviewing that. And then once it got on YouTube, then people were like, oh. This fucking guy nailed it.

• 1:52:32Speaker 02

  I think it's YouTube and also most people want, most people in my experience wanna pretend that everything is fine, most of the time.

• 1:52:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:43Speaker 02

  So if you come out in 2018, as we did, and say this woke shit is getting out of hand and it's going in a bad direction and it's gonna cause a lot of problems, people make you the problem.

• 1:52:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:53Speaker 02

  They say, "You're wrong to talk about this." If you talk about grooming gangs, you're bad and evil and whatever. If you talk about free speech and people being arrested for tweets and all of this, people make you the bad guy. And it's only later, like I remember, I can't even remember who said it, but like, I, I had this, oh no, I remember who said it. One time I was on TV debating with this woman about this stuff and I was saying cancel culture is bad and she was saying it's all bullshit, blah, blah, blah. I met her a few years later and she was like, "Yeah, I realize cancel culture is bad." And I went, "How did you realize?" And she went, "Well, my friends started getting canceled." Right? Most people wanna pretend most of the time that everything is fine.

• 1:53:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:31Speaker 02

  But when they start to see the reality of things and it starts to affect them, that's when they go, "Ah, maybe this pessimist guy had a point."

• 1:53:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I had an argument with a seemingly intelligent person, who's a friend of mine, when the NSA, when this whole mass spying thing was, the Edward Snowden stuff was released. And he was like, "Like, you can look at my shit, I'm not doing anything wrong, like, what do you care?" I'm like, "Oh, that's such a crazy take."

• 1:53:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:53:58Joe Rogan?

  Like, who, who, who are these perfect people that are watching over everything? You don't think any of them have either some financial or power-based incentive to do certain things or silence certain voices and find out what you're doing or maybe even manipulate you in, in some sort of a way? Being able to have access to all of your emails, all of your phone calls, those are just people. And all of them are unelected bureaucrats. You, you think that's okay? For those people to have access to everything you've ever said? That's crazy.

• 1:54:30Speaker 03

  And look, maybe the current government that we have in this place is, you know, would never dream of doing such a thing. And maybe they're entirely honorable and everybody's a great person and, and, you know, they're this unique human being where they don't have any ulterior motives. But what's to say the next government that comes in won't do that and start looking in and going, "Hey, you know what? You're causing me problems, Joe Rogan. You're saying a lot of things that I don't actually like. Let's look through your emails. Oh, look, I'll find one from 14 years ago, which is, you know, whatever it may be. Let's get rid of you for that."

• 1:55:03Joe Rogan?

  This was the argument when Obama was pushing the NDAA. Um, and it was the, this is the indefinite detention. So this, this concept that you didn't have to charge anybody, you didn't have to, you just have to have, you don't have to try them within a timely period. Indefinite detention. Well, we'll never use that.

• 1:55:23Speaker 02

  Why are you pushing it then?

• 1:55:24Joe Rogan?

  Right. Well, also, who comes after you, man? Like, how, how many generations are we away from Hitler? You know, like, who fucking, who's to say that this new power won't be used by very unscrupulous people? That are not, I mean, the founding fathers of this country really had a good understanding of how corruption and tyranny sets in. And that's why they put all these checks and balances in place. And the more they eroded that, whether it's the Patriot Act, the Patriot Act II, or the NDAA. When you start doing stuff like that, man, you're, you're just undermining the very fabric that this country was created with. It's like, we, we were created under this idea that we know human nature. We know that you cannot have power. We know

• 1:56:08Joe Rogan?

  that the government has to be working for the people. It can't be we are under the power of these individuals. Because those individuals will then act like tyrants, which is what people always do when they have power.

• 1:56:21Speaker 02

  It's one of the things that makes America really a great place, because you, we look at the UK now and, you know, Francis is right, and I, I've said this, I think the next election is probably going to be Nigel Farage versus these far leftists. If those far leftists get in power, I mean, they're going to start regulating podcasts. I guarantee you.

• 1:56:39Joe Rogan?

  A hundred percent.

• 1:56:40Speaker 02

  That's what they're gonna do. They're gonna say, "We have Ofcom for TV. Well, why, we need to have it for other broadcasting." Surely you'd agree with that, right? And then before you know it, like, everything we do-

• 1:56:50Joe Rogan?

  Before you know it, you guys are living in Austin.

• 1:56:52Speaker 02

  Right. Right. Because at that point, we would actually leave.

• 1:56:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you would have to. You would have to.

• 1:56:57Speaker 03

  Because what they would say is, and they would use the word that they always use, which is, you know, they're, they're spreading misinformation and hate.

• 1:57:05Speaker 02

  Yeah. When the New York Times spreads information, misinformation, that's wonderful.

• 1:57:09Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:57:11Speaker 02

  But it's, it's, so, yeah, I, I think allowing people maximum freedom within the system you're talking about is, is a really truly precious thing. It's why America in this respect is an example to the rest of the world.

• 1:57:24Joe Rogan?

  I, I think if anything that should be done, they should be able to figure out what, which of these accounts are bots and eliminate those.

• 1:57:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:57:32Joe Rogan?

  I, I do not think that you should be allowed to not just run a bot farm. Or I don't think you should be allowed to hire people to tweet. I think that's crazy. And I most certainly don't think you should be able to use AI. I mean, that, that seems crazy. It seems crazy to allow that and pretend that's a person.

• 1:57:51Speaker 03

  But if, think about it like this, Joe, like, how basically did social media start? Facebook, Meta, all the rest of it. It started by a nerd in his bedroom, in his college dorm, who set up a website to rate hot girls on campus. And my point is like, we're creating all of this technology. We don't know what's going to be the second, third, fifth, fifth, sixth order consequences.

• 1:58:14Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:58:14Speaker 03

  And we're having to figure out as we go along. And now we're creating artificial intelligences, intelligences that are way smarter than us. And you're going, at what point is this going to run away?

• 1:58:25Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:58:25Speaker 03

  Or has it already run away? And we just don't want to admit it because most of us don't know enough and the ones in charge are delusional.

• 1:58:32Speaker 02

  Yeah. But you're right, Joe. I, I think we need a way to know, A, what is human content and what isn't human content.

• 1:58:38Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:58:39Speaker 02

  And also, I sometimes look at stuff on social media and I go, there's no fucking way this take got 50,000 likes on X. No fucking way.

• 1:58:48Joe Rogan?

  Right, right.

• 1:58:48Speaker 02

  You know what I mean?

• 1:58:49Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:58:49Speaker 02

  Like, and that is, but that is shaping people's perception of reality. And that is informing political debate. And that is then informing how people vote. And where did those 40,000 likes come from?

• 1:59:02Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:59:03Speaker 02

  Did they come from within America? Did they come from within Britain?

• 1:59:07Speaker 02

  Because what if they didn't, right? So who is then shaping the political direction of our countries? We need to know that.

• 1:59:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we do need to know that.

• 1:59:15Speaker 02

  We need to know that.

• 1:59:16Joe Rogan?

  Because it is effective. Even if someone has a completely preposterous and radical position, a couple of steps down from that, that becomes more palatable, right? Like, because now it's closer to the, like, the farther left the left goes, the weirder the center gets. Because the center starts accepting things that were far-left positions.

• 1:59:38Speaker 02

  And same on the right.

• 1:59:39Joe Rogan?

  Same on the right. Same, exactly, on the right. And you can, you can shift narratives by really, really radical ideologies, really radical thoughts and radical declarations, and you could change, like, what's acceptable.

• 1:59:53Speaker 03

  So an example of that is during the Euros, the 2021 final, it was England versus Italy, right? And it was a tight game and it went to penalty shootout. And three black England footballers missed the penalty, and we ended up losing the European Cup to the Italians. And afterwards, these three black footballers got inundated with racism and horrible things. That sparked a conversation in our country about, we have a real problem with racism, this is disgraceful that these black footballers are exposed to this level of racism, unacceptable, of course it is, all those things are true, but it, basically about them being exposed to racism is not acceptable. And then it went into a discussion about England being a racist country, white supremacists,

• 2:00:38Speaker 03

  and this became widespread. And this, and the example of what these footballers were exposed to was used as a way to justify this opinion. And you could see a lot of people accept that opinion. Until a couple of days later, when they investigated where the majority of the tweets came from and messages, and I think something like 85%, if not 90, came from outside the UK, if not even more than that. So you're going, oh, so this entire conversation that we have had about white supremacy, about, you know, black people not being accepted in, in our country, about the fact they're second-class citizens, and look, this example of them being exposed to this horrendous racism, when the fact is the majority of it came from outside the UK.

• 2:01:19Speaker 02

  And then you have to ask the question. Who benefits?

• 2:01:22Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:01:23Speaker 02

  Who benefits from us hating each other, obsessing about our differences, worrying about how we're the most racist places in the world, when this narrative is likely being driven by actually racist countries?

• 2:01:37Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right.

• 2:01:39Speaker 02

  Because that's what's happening.

• 2:01:40Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:01:40Speaker 02

  And we are allowing it to happen. And I think we just haven't woken up to the fact that we are living in the age of informational warfare. And we, because of our belief in freedom, have just got lost in this fact that we are under attack.

• 2:01:55Joe Rogan?

  It's a very good point. I have to pee. Um, we'll come back with that.

• 2:01:58Speaker 02

  Awesome, let's do that. I'll go pee as well.

• 2:02:00Joe Rogan?

  Speaking of religion, so, um, show us this, uh, Sam Tripoli Facebook take. He was on Danny Jones, and this is what he said about Facebook.

• 2:02:15Joe Rogan?

  Volume. Yeah.

• 2:02:18Speaker 08

  It's a giant lie. It's a propaganda piece. That was a Pentagon program called LifeLog. LifeLog is a Pentagon program that wants to collect all your data for your whole life. What day did the government stop the LifeLog project?

• 2:02:35Speaker 04

  Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. DARPA shut down the LifeLog project February 4th, 2004.

• 2:02:42Speaker 08

  What day was Facebook registered as a business?

• 2:02:46Speaker 04

  God, no way, bro.

• 2:02:49Speaker 08

  The exact same day. They don't even hide it, dude.

• 2:02:52Speaker 04

  It was created by DARPA.

• 2:02:53Speaker 08

  Yeah, they handed it to Mark Zuckerberg, and then the, the Vosel twins.

• 2:02:57Speaker 04

  What about the other, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:02:58Speaker 08

  That's all. And that's why they became the first Bitcoin millionaires, because they played ball.

• 2:03:06Speaker 08

  It's all theater, dude.

• 2:03:07Speaker 04

  So what is the purpose of LifeLog?

• 2:03:09Speaker 08

  To collect all your data for your whole entire life.

• 2:03:13Joe Rogan?

  Okay, take this with many grains of salt. Sam is one of my best friends. I've known him for decades. He's a wonderful person, but he's a kook. But he's right a lot.

• 2:03:25Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 2:03:26Joe Rogan?

  I don't know if he's right about this.

• 2:03:27Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:03:27Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 2:03:28Joe Rogan?

  Jamie thinks he's right?

• 2:03:30Speaker 00

  It is, it was a, it, it, it's not that he's incorrect, I would say that.

• 2:03:35Joe Rogan?

  He's making some connections.

• 2:03:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:03:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well, he's definitely right about the dates, and that is a little weird.

• 2:03:41Speaker 08

  Yes.

• 2:03:41Joe Rogan?

  That it's ended on the same day where Facebook is beginning. A little weird.

• 2:03:46Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 2:03:47Joe Rogan?

  You know?

• 2:03:49Speaker 02

  What do you think the appeal is of like?

• 2:03:51Speaker 00

  When I went down this rabbit hole here, it said it was made by the Information Processing Techniques Office of the CIA, I think, or something. But here's some other fun projects that are associated with this.

• 2:04:04Joe Rogan?

  Biologically inspired cognitive architectures? Wait, what?

• 2:04:09Speaker 00

  Yep, there's just a couple.

• 2:04:10Joe Rogan?

  Biologically inspired cognitive architectures? That sounds like artificial intelligence.

• 2:04:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:04:17Joe Rogan?

  Bootstrapping learning? What was the other one, Jamie?

• 2:04:19Speaker 00

  This Forrester thing?

• 2:04:20Joe Rogan?

  Forrester, a program to develop helicopter borne radar system that can detect soldiers and vehicles moving underneath foliage cover.

• 2:04:29Speaker 00

  Whoa. Deep Green?

• 2:04:31Joe Rogan?

  US Army Battlefield Decision Making Support System. Yeah, this is all AI.

• 2:04:35Speaker 00

  Heterogeneous Urban RSTA?

• 2:04:38Joe Rogan?

  So they were planning on this in the...

• 2:04:40Speaker 00

  This was 2004 is when that thing ended, the Life Log thing. So, I mean, it even goes back to says they were working on ARPANET back in the 60s.

• 2:04:49Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 2:04:50Speaker 00

  Just beginning with the internet.

• 2:04:51Speaker 02

  By the way, Joe, have you had anyone on to talk about this weapon that the US forces used in Venezuela?

• 2:04:57Joe Rogan?

  No. No, I haven't, not yet.

• 2:04:59Speaker 02

  But there was something like...

• 2:05:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:01Speaker 02

  They used something, right?

• 2:05:02Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:05:02Speaker 02

  Something...

• 2:05:03Joe Rogan?

  Supposedly.

• 2:05:04Speaker 02

  That makes your brain water temperature rise and so you get nosebleeds and shit. Is that, is that what it is?

• 2:05:09Speaker 03

  Well, my cousin told me when I was talking after the attack...

• 2:05:13Speaker 02

  Your cousin in Venezuela?

• 2:05:14Speaker 03

  My cousin in Venezuela, yeah, yeah. He was saying that it seemed like in a one-mile radius, everybody's windows got blown out.

• 2:05:21Speaker 02

  Well, that's just blast. That's not like, but what I, what I heard was that they had some kind of weapon that...

• 2:05:27Joe Rogan?

  Some sonic weapon.

• 2:05:28Speaker 02

  Some, I don't know if it was sonic, maybe, but something that incapacitates people and makes them very uncomfortable, basically, but without killing them.

• 2:05:36Joe Rogan?

  Was it 60 Minutes?

• 2:05:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:05:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. So 60 Minutes said that these guys acquired some weapon from Russian black market. And it's a very small, portable weapon that you can carry around with you and does something very similar. What did, what is their claim on this?

• 2:05:54Speaker 00

  Oh, well, there's two different things going on with the 60 Minutes thing. They had a story a couple of months ago where they were tracking a guy. And then they just had an update, I think, over the weekend that added to it.

• 2:06:05Joe Rogan?

  But what is the claim?

• 2:06:07Speaker 00

  Oh, I think they found the guy that said he was doing it, I believe.

• 2:06:10Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:06:10Speaker 00

  He had a device in his car or something like that.

• 2:06:12Joe Rogan?

  And you could just point it at people, but it was, you could carry it around?

• 2:06:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, that, that is where it gets strange. That's, I mean, the 60 Minutes thing from yesterday going around, I didn't watch it, so I don't know what they're talking about.

• 2:06:21Speaker 02

  Oh, the Havana syndrome?

• 2:06:22Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:06:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, but it has to do with that, and that's what I was trying to, Trump had this discombobulator weapon.

• 2:06:27Speaker 02

  Right, right, that's what I'm talking about.

• 2:06:28Joe Rogan?

  Discombobulator?

• 2:06:29Speaker 02

  It's the most Trump name for it, isn't it?

• 2:06:31Speaker 00

  It's kind of the description of what the Havana syndrome might have been.

• 2:06:34Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:06:34Speaker 02

  The discombobulator.

• 2:06:35Joe Rogan?

  But it seems like, whatever its effectiveness is, the Havana syndrome was very small in comparison to what these things are doing. These things are like completely incapacitating people.

• 2:06:43Speaker 03

  You know, I don't think people talk about this enough. You know when they came in to take Maduro? You know what they also did? I mean, you probably know this. They fired a rocket into Chavez's mausoleum?

• 2:06:56Joe Rogan?

  They did?

• 2:06:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, just to be like, "Go fuck your mum. I'm gonna bomb your grave."

• 2:07:01Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:07:02Speaker 03

  Isn't that the most Trump thing ever?

• 2:07:03Joe Rogan?

  You know how much those things cost?

• 2:07:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:07:06Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, millions of dollars.

• 2:07:07Joe Rogan?

  Millions. So millions just to say fuck you?

• 2:07:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:07:10Joe Rogan?

  Fired a rocket into his grave?

• 2:07:12Speaker 02

  This is the American way, baby.

• 2:07:17Speaker 02

  We're gonna fire some expensive shit.

• 2:07:19Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 2:07:20Speaker 02

  In your grave.

• 2:07:20Speaker 03

  But under any other president, you would've gone, "That's bullshit." But under Trump, you're like, "Yeah, of course."

• 2:07:26Joe Rogan?

  You think it was his idea?

• 2:07:27Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:07:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:07:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:07:31Joe Rogan?

  I've got a thought.

• 2:07:35Speaker 02

  That sounds exactly like a Trump idea.

• 2:07:37Joe Rogan?

  Um, so this weapon that, uh, what is the details?

• 2:07:41Speaker 00

  I don't know, we can just watch this.

• 2:07:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, let's, see what he says here. Well, we could just read, okay, go ahead. Okay, let's play it, let's play it. Here it goes.

• 2:07:50Speaker 09

  Tales of a classified microwave weapon

• 2:07:52Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:07:53Speaker 09

  That may explain mysterious brain injuries suffered by US officials. We've been investigating these injuries for nine years, and now, our sources tell us this microwave weapon is portable, concealable, and uses relatively little power. Hundreds of possible attacks have been reported, including, we've learned, at CIA headquarters in Virginia, and at least two incidents on the grounds of the White House.

• 2:08:25Speaker 09

  For years, the government doubted the stories of the injured. But now, the victims, including former CIA officer Mark Polymeropoulos, hope that word of a newly discovered weapon will finally vindicate them.

• 2:08:40Speaker 10

  There's a part of this, Scott, that has to do with moral injury. And that's the idea of betrayal. You know, I worked for 26 years for the CIA. I think I was involved in every covert action program in the Middle East. I did some very interesting things for the US government, always with the idea that they would have my back if I got jammed up. I just needed to get medical care when I came back, and they wouldn't even do that. So this moral injury, this sense of betrayal, is so acute with me. That's something that I can never forget them for.

• 2:09:08Speaker 09

  Mark Polymeropoulos rose to an executive level at the CIA, about the equivalent of a three-star general. He was awarded a top decoration for service. 60 Minutes has learned to take...

• 2:09:23Speaker 02

  Not much about the weapon, unfortunately.

• 2:09:28Speaker 03

  But it's interesting that the way that they did that, they did that operation. Because when I was talking to my cousins and my friends about what happened, no one in Venezuela had a clue. And they were, my friend said that he was woken up around 2:00 in the morning by a plane going overhead. And there's a no-fly zone around, over Caracas, at that time, especially. And he was like, "What is this?" And he said, "You heard this almighty boom." And everybody was just, nobody knew what was happening. They don't have X in Venezuela for obvious reasons. So everybody was in the dark. And it was only via Instagram and Facebook that they started to understand what had just gone on.

• 2:10:12Speaker 03

  But it was complete disbelief that the Americans had done that.

• 2:10:15Joe Rogan?

  If they, they don't have X, do they have threads? Which is like, X zero?

• 2:10:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, X zero, yeah. I imagine they must do, but he said the way that everybody was communicating was via Instagram.

• 2:10:28Speaker 02

  Interesting. What are people saying now in Venezuela?

• 2:10:31Speaker 03

  So, and now, I talked to my friends, he said that things are getting better. He said things are getting better. He said the crime was down seventy-five percent. I mean, I don't know how true this is. He said things are slowly starting to get liberalized. He also, the, I was talking to a Colombian friend of mine who was saying that people, Venezuelans in Colombia are now starting to go back. Because whilst the regime is still obviously not perfect, what you essentially have is a puppet regime. And they know that the moment they step out of line, they know the moment they, to use Trump's parlance, fuck about, something will happen. They're kept in, they're, they're, they're kept, they're kept on a straight line. Yeah, they, they have to behave. They can't do what Maduro did.

• 2:11:15Speaker 03

  And what's interesting about when Maduro was captured is nobody really mentioned that much about his wife. But a lot of people say that his wife was the brains behind the operation. Because Maduro, there's clips of him that went viral on TikTok and Instagram and on Twitter as well, where he was doing speeches and he had to do basic mental arithmetic and he couldn't do it. This guy was a bus driver. He was picked by Chavez when Chavez was on his deathbed in twenty thirteen, dying from stomach cancer. And he appointed Maduro, everybody was shocked. Because they were saying, well Maduro wasn't the most capable, he wasn't the most intelligent. But what Maduro was is he was the most loyal out of all Chavez's underlings.

• 2:11:58Speaker 03

  So he was picked not for his brilliance, not for his sharpness, but because he was a company man. And actually, the, the person who the Venezuelans hated the most was his wife. Because she was the brains behind the operation. She was the one in charge of the kidnappings, the tortures, the murders. So when she was kidnapped, people were happier that she was on the helicopter than Maduro himself.

• 2:12:22Speaker 02

  Really?

• 2:12:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:12:23Speaker 02

  Lady Macbeth.

• 2:12:28Speaker 03

  She was way more cruel than Maduro.

• 2:12:30Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:12:32Speaker 03

  Way more cruel.

• 2:12:33Speaker 02

  It's interesting you say things are getting better now because like it's short term, right? We don't know.

• 2:12:38Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:12:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:12:39Speaker 02

  You know, this has happened a lot of times in Latin America, right? Like people get overthrown, things are getting better and then some shit happens.

• 2:12:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, not the most stable place.

• 2:12:51Speaker 03

  Not the most stable people, Joe, I'm gonna be honest with you. My people, it's either, you know, it's either facismo or vive la revolución. And you're like, guys, can we have a little middle? And they're like, no, vive la revolución. You know, they're excitable people.

• 2:13:06Speaker 02

  And you also wonder how much the fact that Venezuela in particular, it's so resource rich. A lot of, well, like a lot of, Francis always says to me, like, you know, it could be a really great country, really wealthy. And I go, I don't know that having those resources makes a country better. Because what you get is a corrupt elite who are fighting for control of these resources that are so easy to get. Like in 1990s Russia, when the Soviet Union collapsed, the people who took over all the resource companies, the oil companies, the gas companies, where like Russia is basically, all it is is a, in terms of its economy, is digging shit out of the ground and selling it. That's what it is.

• 2:13:40Speaker 03

  And the poetry.

• 2:13:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, not a lot of money to be made in poetry, right? But the people who took over those companies, they weren't people who knew anything about the oil business. They weren't people who knew anything about the gas business. Because all you really had to do is take over and then you just let Western companies come in and do the drilling and the oil field services and all of it for you. So these countries which are so resource rich, it actually makes them more corrupt and more unstable. The resource wealth they have doesn't actually make them better for the people. Because the corrupt elites fight over those resources. And that's where you get the bullshit that you get.

• 2:14:18Speaker 03

  And it's true. So Venezuela, before Chavez came to power, was 98% dependent on oil.

• 2:14:26Speaker 03

  The economy, the entire economy was ninety-eight percent dependent on oil. The slight difference with Venezuela is when we were taken over by Chavez, he then installed his cronies in charge of Perdevesa, which is the Venezuelan oil company. And he cut out all the people who were competent, all the people who were, who would criticize him ideologically. And as a result, what you had is fundamentally incompetent people at the top, which meant that it became degraded, it was no longer able to pump the oil, it wasn't reliable. So that's a large part of the reason why the economy collapsed is it was entirely dependent on oil. They appointed their cronies who couldn't actually do the job. The oil industry failed and we descended into poverty and chaos.

• 2:15:11Joe Rogan?

  Hmm. How much do you know about Brazil? Not a lot. Why? Well, I've always, that situation is very confusing, right? Lula goes to jail, now he's out, he's running the country and they jailed Jair Bolsonaro, right?

• 2:15:28Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:15:29Joe Rogan?

  Like, there seems, and then they tried to ban X, like, then they did for a while, right? I think so. And they had to make probably some concessions. I don't know a lot about it, truthfully, Joe.

• 2:15:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:15:43Joe Rogan?

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• 2:16:28Joe Rogan?

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• 2:17:11Joe Rogan?

  It's important to protect your family and no one deserves to feel like their home isn't safe. So use SimpliSafe. Right now, get 60% off your plan with professional monitoring at simplisafe.com/rogan. That's simplisafe.com/rogan. And when you order, let them know we sent you in the survey. It helps to support the show. SimpliSafe, ahead of crime, in real time.

• 2:17:35Speaker 02

  We're gonna do that thing that no one does on the internet is admit we don't know something.

• 2:17:38Joe Rogan?

  As long as we don't have hot takes. What is this, Jamie?

• 2:17:42Speaker 00

  These are kinda, it's kinda crazy descriptions of this weapon. This is from this longer version of the CBS News 60 Minutes article where they're talking to that guy we just saw. I would say start right around here and then I'll skip to another paragraph.

• 2:17:55Joe Rogan?

  Okay, so three independent sources from different agencies tell us undercover Homeland Security agents purchased a miniaturized microwave weapon from a complex Russian criminal network. It's classified, we didn't see it, but it has been described to us. We're told it doesn't look anything like a gun. It's designed to be concealed and small enough to be carried by a person. It is silent and doesn't create heat like a microwave oven. Our sources say the device is programmable for different scenarios and can be operated by remote control. The range of the beam is several hundred feet. It can penetrate windows and drywall. The vital components were made in Russia. Our sources say the key is not the hardware, but the software. The programming shapes a unique electromagnetic wave that rises and falls abruptly and pulses rapidly.

• 2:18:38Speaker 00

  So then it turns out they have tested this apparently in US military labs, start here.

• 2:18:44Joe Rogan?

  Our confidential sources tell us still classified weapon has been tested in a US military lab for more than a year. Tests on rats and sheep show injuries consistent with those seen in humans. Also, as a separate part of the investigation, security camera videos have been collected that show Americans being hit. The videos are classified, but they were described to us in one, a camera in a restaurant in Istanbul captured two FBI agents on vacation, sitting at a table with their families. A man with a backpack walks in and suddenly everyone at the table grabs their head as if in pain. Our sources say that another video comes from a stairwell in the US Embassy in Vienna. The stairs

• 2:19:24Joe Rogan?

  lead to a secure facility. In the video, two people on the stairs suddenly collapse. Those videos and the weapon were among the reasons the Biden administration summoned about half a dozen victims to the White House with about two months left in the president's term.

• 2:19:39Speaker 00

  And then that guy was also one of the people in there. The ads are kind of fucking up this website, but yeah, he just sort of says someone admitted to him that they treated him poorly.

• 2:19:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:51Speaker 00

  That's the biggest cover up I've seen in my adult life.

• 2:19:54Joe Rogan?

  Interesting.

• 2:19:56Speaker 02

  I don't get the like the border for why if Russia has this weapon, why didn't they use it to take out Zelensky?

• 2:20:02Joe Rogan?

  Well, it seems like it's only for a hundred, a couple hundred feet. That's what they were just saying, like it has to be close.

• 2:20:07Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:20:08Joe Rogan?

  So what, what was the one they used in Venezuela then?

• 2:20:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, they started off saying it was in a truck. It was truck size, but then that's where it goes. I started you just past that where they said it's actually way smaller.

• 2:20:17Joe Rogan?

  Interesting. So this is the one that's that you could carry around, but do we know that that's the same one they used in Venezuela or do they use something that's completely different technology?

• 2:20:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, the reality is we just don't know. I mean, the interesting thing as well with Venezuela is like Maduro is so retarded.

• 2:20:36Joe Rogan?

  Is he?

• 2:20:36Speaker 02

  There's a hot take.

• 2:20:41Joe Rogan?

  How retarded is he? He's so retarded. Set up punchline.

• 2:20:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, he but he literally said to Trump, he said to America, I'm not going to do what you say. Go fuck yourself. Come and get me.

• 2:20:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he did that.

• 2:20:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:20:55Joe Rogan?

  That was cocaine.

• 2:20:57Joe Rogan?

  Down, down, down, down.

• 2:20:59Speaker 03

  And it's not just that. He, so for instance, uh, the country next to Venezuela is called Guyana. And in Guyana, they recently discovered oil, uh, really huge, large deposits of oil. And there's been, Guyana is a British, former British colony. And Venezuela and Guyana have always been disputes about territory. About one particular part of, I think it's called Escaibo, which is basically rainforest. And they always argued about it, but no one cared. Until they discovered oil there. At which point Maduro went, you know what? You know how we've been talking about this? Turns out it is Venezuelan. They did a referendum in Venezuela where you basically asked a people who were entirely subjugated,

• 2:21:45Speaker 03

  starving, living in misery and poverty, whether they wanted to start a war with Guyana. Do you know how many Venezuelans voted for it? Ninety-two percent, Joe. Ninety-two percent of Venezuelans wanted to go to war despite the fact they didn't have the strength to even pick up a gun. Cause they're so malnourished. And then he started teaching in schools, redrawing the map of Venezuela. So all the school kids now think that Venezuela incorporates this territory. Like he was antagonizing the Americans and their allies consistently. And unlike Iran, he doesn't have the infrastructure. He doesn't have that amount of the military, the power, the organization.

• 2:22:29Speaker 03

  He made himself so vulnerable, so vulnerable.

• 2:22:32Speaker 02

  Who, who looks at Trump and goes, yeah, let's fuck with that guy?

• 2:22:35Joe Rogan?

  Right. He's 80. He, he doesn't have much to lose.

• 2:22:39Speaker 02

  Right. It's last term.

• 2:22:40Joe Rogan?

  That's the scary thing about old leaders. It's like death is imminent. It's within a decade, if you're lucky. That's spooky. That's spooky. Like, you know, you're making decisions for babies and children and the future of the world. And you've only got 10, maybe 10 years left on, on earth. If everything goes great.

• 2:23:02Speaker 03

  And also you start to degrade.

• 2:23:04Joe Rogan?

  Oh yeah.

• 2:23:05Speaker 03

  Your cognitive functions, it doesn't, I'm not saying that he's got dementia or anything like that, but you're just not as sharp. When you're that age as you are when you're younger.

• 2:23:12Speaker 02

  He is, I mean, he's kind of weird. Like when I think about how much Barack Obama aged.

• 2:23:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:23:18Speaker 02

  How much Tony Blair aged.

• 2:23:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:23:20Speaker 02

  Trump has not aged like that.

• 2:23:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and he is a terrible diet. I mean, especially when he's on the road, he just eats junk food, because he says it's like JFK or RFK Junior, rather, told me. He's uh, he eats junk food because he knows that when he eats fast food, that it's not gonna be poison. Like, he knows he can eat it and not worry about getting food poisoning.

• 2:23:43Speaker 02

  What?

• 2:23:43Joe Rogan?

  What? What? Exactly.

• 2:23:44Speaker 02

  Doesn't make any fucking sense.

• 2:23:46Joe Rogan?

  Well, it does, because it's filled with preservatives, so you're not gonna get food poisoning from a Big Mac. When was the last time you heard about anybody getting food poisoning from a Big Mac? Right? Fucking never happens, because nothing can grow on those things. Yeah, really, like, for real, like, you've seen them, they take, like, a hamburger.

• 2:24:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:24:04Joe Rogan?

  Decades, decades, decades, they don't rot. There's so much preservatives in the bread and whatever the meat is fucking made with.

• 2:24:12Speaker 02

  And, but, but this is my point, is like, Trump hasn't aged like much younger men.

• 2:24:16Joe Rogan?

  Which is even crazier, because you consider he doesn't exercise.

• 2:24:19Speaker 02

  Right. And, and he's been under colossal, I mean, I don't know, but I imagine he's been under a bit of pressure and stress.

• 2:24:25Joe Rogan?

  Well, assassination attempts.

• 2:24:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:24:27Joe Rogan?

  And just all that, almost going to jail.

• 2:24:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:24:30Joe Rogan?

  Right, like, thirty-four felonies sort of trumped up, you know, pardon the pun, against him.

• 2:24:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:24:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there was a lot.

• 2:24:37Speaker 02

  He's a Russian agent and all this, all this bullshit.

• 2:24:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:24:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:24:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:24:40Speaker 02

  And he's just like, it's kind of like, it's kind of impressive in a way.

• 2:24:45Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that part's very impressive, yeah.

• 2:24:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:24:47Joe Rogan?

  And he's funny, like, he's always joking around about that stuff.

• 2:24:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:24:50Joe Rogan?

  And like, he's very lighthearted about it all.

• 2:24:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, he is, like, when he was talking about the Iranian Navy, did you see that? He was like, they've lost fourteen ships, we sunk a submarine, they did this, but apart from that, they're doing really well.

• 2:25:05Speaker 02

  He's very relaxed for a man in that, like, it's, it's hard to ima- I, I cannot imagine being in charge of anything like, eight, eight, a thousandth of that size.

• 2:25:16Joe Rogan?

  Right, just imagine the stress that you guys have running trigonometry.

• 2:25:18Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:25:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Right. It's stressful, I'm sure.

• 2:25:20Speaker 02

  Francis is aged like Barack Obama.

• 2:25:23Joe Rogan?

  I used to have flat hair.

• 2:25:26Speaker 03

  Now I just look like an aging lesbian, John.

• 2:25:29Joe Rogan?

  It is stressful, right?

• 2:25:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:25:31Joe Rogan?

  And that is the highest stress that I can ever imagine. I can't imagine a level higher.

• 2:25:37Speaker 03

  Do you know, I always remember after the war in Iraq, and Blair was still in power, but it was towards the end.

• 2:25:45Speaker 03

  I was watching the news with my dad and this woman in her 50s came along and she put a wreath at this, at the door of 10 Downing Street. And that was a mother whose son had died in Iraq.

• 2:26:02Speaker 03

  And placed a wreath at 10 Downing Street of all the soldiers that died. I'm like, even if the war was justified, even if it was the right thing to do, which I don't think it was, I would still find it impossible to sleep.

• 2:26:16Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:26:16Speaker 03

  Now just imagine it was the colossal fuck up that that war was.

• 2:26:20Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:26:21Speaker 03

  And those people died as a result of your decision. But how do you, unless you're a sociopath, I, I, I think that's an, you can't, can you live with that?

• 2:26:30Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:26:33Speaker 03

  I, I don't think, I, I think it's impossible to live with.

• 2:26:35Speaker 02

  Well, clearly not. I mean, we've got people who were heavily responsible for promoting that war in the UK now. Like Alistair Campbell, who was the spin doctor that helped Blair lie the country into the war in Iraq. He now has a really big podcast and like all the young people are, oh, really? Oh, tell me more.

• 2:26:55Joe Rogan?

  No way.

• 2:26:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:26:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:26:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:26:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:26:58Joe Rogan?

  So he's the Rush Limbaugh of the UK?

• 2:27:00Speaker 02

  Uh, how, how do you mean? Sorry, I don't know enough about Rush Limbaugh. I, I've heard the name, but I, I can't, I don't get the reference in the way that you mean it.

• 2:27:07Joe Rogan?

  He was the big right wing propagandist on radio, excellence in broadcasting. Oh, by the way, have you seen the, um, The memes that think that Rush Limbaugh is actually Jim Morrison. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And if you look at his facial features in comparison to Jim Morrison's facial features, they're almost identical. It's kind of nuts. They do like a scan where they like, like, superimpose.

• 2:27:32Speaker 02

  So Rush Limbaugh is a media guy. Alistair Campbell, he was working for Tony Blair.

• 2:27:36Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:27:37Speaker 02

  To shape the media. Now he has a podcast. And all the young people are, oh, really?

• 2:27:41Joe Rogan?

  Well, there was a lot of like, young men in particular that like, really into Rush Limbaugh and like, that, like, a lot of people are crediting him with turning young people towards a right-wing direction. This was during the Obama administration. Like, look at this. Watch, watch when they grow over. Pretty close.

• 2:28:02Speaker 03

  It's like Alex Jones and Bill Hicks. Have you seen that?

• 2:28:05Joe Rogan?

  That one's ridiculous. I met both of them. They didn't look anything like each other. Look at this. Look at that. That is kind of crazy.

• 2:28:12Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 2:28:13Joe Rogan?

  It's pretty close.

• 2:28:16Speaker 03

  Wow. But, you know.

• 2:28:19Joe Rogan?

  Well, you know, there's the other crazy conspiracy theory involving the countercultural movement, counterculture movement of the 1960s with the CIA. There's a, there's a book on Strange Times in Laurel Canyon. The book's nuts. Like, you realize like, how many of these very popular countercultural figures had families that were in the military?

• 2:28:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:28:40Joe Rogan?

  Like, high-level military intelligence officers, including Morrison.

• 2:28:44Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, Morrison's dad was very senior in the military. Yeah.

• 2:28:47Joe Rogan?

  And a bunch of other people that were also involved in, you know, the, the whole Laurel Canyon rock scene. And that it was somehow or another, at least promoted by intelligence agencies, if not formulated.

• 2:29:02Speaker 02

  And by counterculture, you mean like, what, like hippies?

• 2:29:04Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 2:29:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:29:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:29:05Speaker 02

  So the hippie movement was promoted by intelligence?

• 2:29:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well.

• 2:29:11Speaker 02

  Why?

• 2:29:11Joe Rogan?

  That's a good question. Well, we know, without saying definitively, but pretty close, based on Tom O'Neill's book, Chaos, that they were absolutely involved in the Manson family. So, the reason for them being involved, the Manson family, is say, you have this new culture that's arising, that doesn't embrace materialism, make love, not war. You got all these people, you know, drop out, tune in, like, all.

• 2:29:37Speaker 03

  Timothy Leary.

• 2:29:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. The Timothy, Timothy Leary people, the, the, the people that are.

• 2:29:43Joe Rogan?

  Want to do acid and you just want to reimagine society. So this is a radical change. That's a radical change from the 1950s to 1960s. Pretty crazy. So what do you do to stop that? Well, what you do is you find a guy who's very charismatic, who is a sociopath, who's in prison. And you find that guy and teach him how to be a cult leader. And then you give him acid and you show him how to administer acid and how to not take it. And have all of his followers take it and then direct their thoughts. And then eventually program them like MKUltra style to commit murders. So they have the Tate La Bianca murders. They have a bunch of other stuff that they did before that. He's gotten arrested multiple times. Every time he gets arrested, they let him go.

• 2:30:25Joe Rogan?

  And when they let him go, like one of the sheriff says, I was told it was above my pay grade. So you're letting a guy go who's a violent criminal, who's violating parole, who's a lifelong con man. And now he is running this cult and this cult is murderous. So the Tate La Bianca murders, the Manson family murders, all that stuff becomes public. There's the hearings, the trials, the whole thing. So the entire public narrative changes on what a hippie is. Now hippies are dangerous. So before hippies were like, we're nonviolent, we want love, we're, we have flowers. And now it's like, oh, these fucking people will cut your baby out and write pig on the wall with your blood. You know?

• 2:31:03Speaker 03

  Is the Altamont concert connected to that?

• 2:31:05Joe Rogan?

  Excuse me?

• 2:31:06Speaker 03

  The Altamont concert.

• 2:31:07Joe Rogan?

  What is that?

• 2:31:08Speaker 03

  You know the Rolling Stones concert?

• 2:31:10Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that was the, that was the, um, Hell's Angels.

• 2:31:13Speaker 03

  Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that was kind of seen, I, I don't know, it's just a question I'm asking like, because that was seen as the end of the hippie movement, wasn't it? That was the death, that was the final death rattle of the hippie movement. That was how it was, that's how it was written and portrayed.

• 2:31:26Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's odd because the, the Hell's Angels are not hippies. And having Hell's Angels as security is a wild move.

• 2:31:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:31:33Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 2:31:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, because it was a Rolling Stones concert, but in, because it was a free concert, wasn't it? That was a thing.

• 2:31:41Joe Rogan?

  How did they go about hiring, see if you can find the history on that. They go about hiring the Hell's Angels?

• 2:31:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:31:50Joe Rogan?

  Both previously used the angels for security at performances without incident. Grateful Dead and Jefferson Airplane.

• 2:31:57Speaker 00

  This is also, the next sentence says it was denied, so I don't know.

• 2:32:01Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:32:02Speaker 00

  But that's what it says in the Wikipedia here.

• 2:32:05Joe Rogan?

  Sis for $500 worth of beer, that's all they had to pay them? The story was denied by some parties who were directly involved. According to the road manager of the Rolling Stones 1969 US tour, Sam Cutler, the only agreement there ever was, the Angels would make sure that nobody tampered with the generators, and that was the extent of it. But there was no way they're going to be the police force or anything like that. That's all bollocks. The deal was made at a meeting, including Cutler, Grateful Dead manager, Rock Scully, and Pete Nell, member of the Hells Angels San Francisco chapter. According to Cutler, the arrangement was that all the bands were supposed to share the $500 beer cost, but the person who paid it was me, and I never got it back to this day.

• 2:32:50Joe Rogan?

  Okay. So, the Hells Angels guy says, "We don't police things, we're not a security force. We go to concerts and enjoy ourselves and have fun." Well, what about helping people out, you know, giving directions and things? He says, "Sure, we can do that." How they would be paid, he said, "We like beer." In the documentary Gimme Shelter, Sonny Barger, the guy that was the head of the Rolling Stones, uh, the head of the Hells Angels, stated that the Hells Angels were not interested in policing the event, and that organizers had told them the Angels would not be required to do, or would be required, rather, to do little more than sit on the edge of the stage, drink beer, and make sure there weren't any murders or rapes occurring.

• 2:33:29Speaker 03

  The only reason I said that is because it was, that was kind of one of the events that was, that was heralded to be the death, to be the end of the hippie movement.

• 2:33:37Joe Rogan?

  Right. So, what happened? They stabbed people? Something happened?

• 2:33:40Speaker 03

  I think it was a freak concert that the Rolling Stones and these bands put on, and then it degenerated, and then a riot broke out, and then the Hells Angels, who was obviously not trained security, then went on the rampage.

• 2:33:54Joe Rogan?

  And how many people died?

• 2:33:56Speaker 03

  That I don't know.

• 2:33:58Joe Rogan?

  Does it say here, Jamie?

• 2:34:00Speaker 00

  Uh, situation here, it's killing, uh...

• 2:34:04Joe Rogan?

  A woman got killed?

• 2:34:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, it says.

• 2:34:09Speaker 00

  22 caliber, jacket, draw revolver, drew a knife, stabbed him 16 times in the head, neck, and back.

• 2:34:17Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 2:34:18Speaker 00

  It's a lot of stabbing.

• 2:34:22Joe Rogan?

  So it says concealing the remaining fourteen stabbings, what?

• 2:34:32Speaker 00

  He was high on meth when he died.

• 2:34:34Joe Rogan?

  Oh, boy.

• 2:34:36Speaker 00

  Quitted after jury reviewed the concert footage.

• 2:34:40Joe Rogan?

  Rolling Stones were aware of the skirmish, but not the stabbing. Couldn't see anything, it's just another scuffle, Jagger tells. David, um, mailsies, mailsles during film editing. It soon became apparent they could see something of what happened because the band stopped playing mid-song. And Jagger was heard calling into his microphone, really got someone hurt here, is there a doctor? After a few minutes, the band began playing again and eventually completed their set. They had to get paid.

• 2:35:07Joe Rogan?

  The band of the show at one point was to say Altamont became, whether fairly or not, a symbol for the death of the Woodstock Nation.

• 2:35:20Joe Rogan?

  Interesting.

• 2:35:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:35:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I mean, it seems like if you're gonna have concerts, especially gonna have free concerts and you're gonna be using Hell's Angels as a deterrent, you know, things could definitely go sideways.

• 2:35:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, definitely.

• 2:35:36Joe Rogan?

  And maybe they just got lucky before when they did it for Jefferson Airplane and the Grateful Dead.

• 2:35:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:35:42Speaker 02

  Joe, not to change the subject, but have you, have you been following this beef between Eddie Hearn and Dana White?

• 2:35:47Joe Rogan?

  A little bit.

• 2:35:48Speaker 02

  Cause it's kind of interesting to me, cause boxing seems to be like changing, right? Because of what the Zephyr Boxing is doing. Is that, is that something you're like excited about? The possibility of the boxing, which has been in, you know, there's so much bullshit going on. And you've so very rarely see the best fighters fighting each other, that that might change?

• 2:36:08Joe Rogan?

  Well, the beef with those two, I, I don't know the root of it. I think it's essentially the, the, you know, it's competition, like Dana's now entering into the MMA space.

• 2:36:18Speaker 02

  Into the boxing space?

• 2:36:19Joe Rogan?

  Excuse me, the boxing space. And I was gonna say Eddie Hearn is now entering into the MMA space, cause now he's a manager of Tom Aspinall.

• 2:36:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:36:27Joe Rogan?

  Which is very interesting.

• 2:36:29Joe Rogan?

  Anything that gets fighters more money, I'm for. Yeah. And, you know, more attention, more money, more different promoters, more people competing to give people higher purses. The real problem is with MMA, there's nothing. I mean, there's essentially the UFC and everything else is a distant second. Yeah. And it's a distant second in terms of attention. In some places, it's not a distant second, it's not a distant second in terms of revenue, right? So, like, the PFL, for instance. The PFL was offering a million dollars for anybody who could win these tournaments. And the caliber of fighters that were winning this tournament were not the same caliber as UFC champions.

• 2:37:10Joe Rogan?

  And then some of the people that were competing in the UFC were not making as much money as these people that had left the UFC because they really weren't able to beat the best guys. They went over there and they made a million dollars. Like, I think that's good for fighters. It's not good for really talented guys that really want to be the UFC champion because you can languish over there for a long time. And there's some good examples of guys who've spent four, five, six years over there that really had potential to be a world champion. And they are, you know, in quotes, "a world champion over there", but ask the average person on the street who they are, no one knows. Ask them who Alex Pereira is, everybody knows. The thing is, those guys, if they're doing that and they're getting paid more,

• 2:37:55Joe Rogan?

  you have to make a decision. Like, are you willing to take more money now in this organization versus the potential of much more fame, sponsors, and maybe less money initially in the UFC? But if you can be a champion, that's really what every fighter wants to be. Because if you spend five, six years in an organization, the reality is, your prime is about five, six years.

• 2:38:22Joe Rogan?

  You could look at the elite of the elite guys, Anderson Silva in his prime, it's about five, six years. Fedor Emelianenko in his prime, it's about five, six years. So you could, you could burn out your prime in an organization where you're not getting as much talent, not getting as much recognition. So it depends on what you're doing it for. If you're purely a prizefighter and you want to fight for the highest bidder. The difference between MMA and the UFC is you can do that in boxing. So in boxing, people go to see the fighter. You know, if Terence Crawford is fighting Canelo Alvarez, my mom could be the promoter. Nobody gives a shit. They want to see that fight. And you put that fight on pay-per-view, it's gonna sell. You put it on Dzone, you put it on Netflix, it's

• 2:39:03Joe Rogan?

  gonna sell. In MMA, that's not necessarily the case. The interesting challenge to that is this Netflix thing. So with Ronda Rousey versus Gina Carano. Yeah. Even though Gina Carano hasn't fought since the 2000s, I don't remember what year it was the last time she fought. I want to make a guess, let me guess. I want to say 2007, 2008? When was the last time Gina Carano fought? And she's 43, and I think Ronda's 39. But Ronda's so famous, and people are so interested, and if it's on Netflix and people already have Netflix, I guarantee you, you'll get millions of people that'll watch that. So that'll be good. Right? And that's good for the fighters. And I know

• 2:39:47Joe Rogan?

  they offered some fighters that I know a very large purse to compete on that card. Well, Francis Nganu might be one, right? He might be? Yeah. That's, there's talk of that. No, actually, I think that's been, I think that's been confirmed. I think he's fighting Phillip Linz. 2009. Okay. So that was the last time she fought. Chris Cyborg was a beast. Yeah. There was a lot of supplements involved in that. There was a lot going on with her. I mean, that was, that was the Wild West of testing, and she looked freak. Yeah, the eye test was kind of... Yeah, the eye test was 100%. So, but it'll still be exciting. People will, you know, and hopefully they've had enough time. I know there's a lot of video footage of

• 2:40:28Joe Rogan?

  Ronda training for quite a while. She lost a lot of weight, she got really slim, she looks fit, you know, she's, she looks outstanding, especially with her grappling. She's doing a lot of judo throws and arm bars and she's lost a step. There's a difference between that and competition. There's ring rust, there's a lot of factors. Gina Carano was a legit Muay Thai champion. She's got real power. And she was a very good striker when she was young. She was a very technical, solid striker when she was young.

• 2:40:57Joe Rogan?

  How long has it been since she, you know, I mean, how long did she stop training for? Right? She did movies, she's done The Mandalorian, she's had a lot of success acting, but it seems like there's probably quite a bit of time. She lost a ton of weight too, look. And she looks quite a bit bigger than Rhonda.

• 2:41:16Speaker 02

  Those are two attractive ladies, if I may say so.

• 2:41:18Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 2:41:20Speaker 02

  And oh, Jake Paul is in the middle.

• 2:41:21Joe Rogan?

  Rhonda looks very angry.

• 2:41:23Speaker 03

  He looks kind of awkward there Jake, to be honest.

• 2:41:28Joe Rogan?

  Uh, you know, when it comes to grappling, you give Rhonda a big advantage. She's one of the best submission artists ever, period. You know, her arm bar is about as good as a cat's. She's got fantastic judo, bronze medalist in the Olympics. But when it comes to Gina, Gina was a like, a solid striker when she was young. And the difference in striking would definitely benefit Gina. You would have to lean in her direction. But again, when you're talking about like 2009, it's a long time, man. Seventeen years. It's a long time to not compete.

• 2:41:58Speaker 02

  Well, there do seem to be a lot of fights nowadays in various disciplines happening where it's like, you're not seeing people at their prime. You're maybe sometimes seeing people who aren't professionals.

• 2:42:08Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:42:08Speaker 02

  But are famous.

• 2:42:09Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:42:10Speaker 02

  And there seems to be a lot of money to be made doing that.

• 2:42:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, as long as you match them correctly, right?

• 2:42:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:42:15Speaker 03

  That was the thing that was wild with Jake Paul versus Anthony Joshua.

• 2:42:19Joe Rogan?

  Uh-huh.

• 2:42:20Speaker 03

  You, Jake Paul is a cruiserweight and you've got Joshua who is heavy for the heavyweight division. You looked at the size matchup between the two. And at one point I was like, he's gonna kill him.

• 2:42:32Joe Rogan?

  Well, he did. I mean, I think Jake probably knew it going in and just, I think his game plan was just to move a lot. You know, and he did a lot of that, did a lot of moving. He, uh, he hit him a few times and he hit him with some wild shots from the outside where he kind of dove in and threw wild punches. I think that was probably part of the strategy, but I mean, ultimately, you're looking at Anthony Joshua who's not just a heavyweight champion in boxing, but a one punch knockout artist and a former Olympic gold medalist. He's a fucking highly skilled man. Very highly, highly skilled.

• 2:43:05Speaker 02

  That was a strange fight because up to that point Jake's pole fight was the other way around. Like he had, he clearly had an advantage. And that was like flipping the script. The other way.

• 2:43:15Joe Rogan?

  Well, smart dude, you know, very smart.

• 2:43:17Speaker 02

  Do you think that was smart?

• 2:43:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, very smart and he promotes himself, smart in that like you can't criticize him for not fighting dangerous fights anymore.

• 2:43:24Speaker 02

  That you gotta respect, right, yeah.

• 2:43:26Joe Rogan?

  The Mike Tyson one was a little sus.

• 2:43:28Speaker 02

  I mean, Mike Tyson is, you know, he's on the older side. Whereas Anthony Joshua, he's not that old.

• 2:43:33Joe Rogan?

  It's not just that, like the fight itself was a little sus.

• 2:43:36Speaker 02

  How do you mean?

• 2:43:37Joe Rogan?

  Cause it looked like a sparring match.

• 2:43:38Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:43:38Joe Rogan?

  It looked like there was an agreement in place.

• 2:43:40Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 2:43:40Joe Rogan?

  I don't know if there was, you know, but Terrence Crawford thought it was.

• 2:43:45Speaker 03

  Really?

• 2:43:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it looked a little sus.

• 2:43:47Speaker 03

  I mean, Mike is, how old is Mike? Fifty-eight, fifty-nine?

• 2:43:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:43:50Speaker 02

  I mean, I still wouldn't get in a ring with him.

• 2:43:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, no, I'll still kill you. But it's like, I mean, it's not saying that Jake would have even won. I mean, who knows? I mean, if, if Mike really could have, like you saw, he's capable of those flurries when he's hitting pads. He's still capable of massive speed and power. It's not saying that, but it's like, could he sustain a real fight? Does he want to get hit in the head anymore at this point in his life?

• 2:44:16Speaker 03

  And, and it's also when you get to that age, you can look and you can, you, you, there'll be glimpses where you're like, oh, this is the old, the Tyson of old. But it's also as well, he's still a fifty-eight year old dude, you know, a punch around the head that can cause a brain hemorrhage, et cetera. And he can, he can die.

• 2:44:32Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 2:44:33Speaker 03

  Fighters die at the peak of their powers or get brain damage. I mean, it's gonna be, I'm no, I'm no neurologist, but I'm certain that that is a higher risk when you're fifty-eight.

• 2:44:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I would recommend it.

• 2:44:46Speaker 02

  So, and so the thing, this is why I asked you about Eddie Hearn and Dana, there's talk about them having a boxing match.

• 2:44:50Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's funny. Dana can box. He can really box. Like I've, I've seen Dana hit mitts before. I've seen Dana spar. Dana can actually box. And there was a time where Dana was supposed to have a boxing match with Tito Ortiz.

• 2:45:00Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:45:00Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 2:45:01Joe Rogan?

  And, um, you know, even Tito, Tito acknowledged, cause Dana was his manager at one point in time, even Tito acknowledged, like Dana's a really good boxer. He can box. He spent a lot of his time boxing when he was young. I mean, I don't know how much of it he's doing these days. He's so fucking busy. You know, he's so involved in Zuffa boxing now. And, uh, He's involved in some of these Riyadh season events, so it's like, you know, I don't, I think it's probably just talk. You know, Eddie Hearn's a very tall guy, though.

• 2:45:29Speaker 02

  He's a big dude.

• 2:45:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he's a big dude.

• 2:45:30Speaker 02

  And he used to box as well.

• 2:45:31Joe Rogan?

  Did he?

• 2:45:31Speaker 02

  He used to, he boxed his dad, I think. I heard him talking about that.

• 2:45:35Joe Rogan?

  Interesting.

• 2:45:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:45:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:45:37Speaker 02

  There's a fight.

• 2:45:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I guess, I don't want to see it. I mean, I'll watch, though.

• 2:45:42Speaker 02

  Well, this is what I mean. You don't want to see it, but you'll watch.

• 2:45:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:45:45Joe Rogan?

  Well, there's certain things I don't want to see that I watch, like slap fight. Like, if someone sends me a video, if it shows up on my Instagram feed of some, you know, poor slob getting slapped in the shadow realm, I'll watch it, just for how they hit their head off the table and stiffen up on the way down.

• 2:46:00Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:46:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:46:01Speaker 03

  That's combat sports for the TikTok generation.

• 2:46:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:46:04Speaker 03

  When you think about it.

• 2:46:05Joe Rogan?

  It's not even combat sports. I mean, it's just slapping each other. That's all it is. If you want to call slapping each other a sport, that seems crazy. It's also, there's a fundamental problem with slap fighting is that someone has to go first.

• 2:46:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:46:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:46:19Joe Rogan?

  And that's a giant advantage.

• 2:46:20Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:46:21Joe Rogan?

  Going first is the biggest advantage of all time, you know?

• 2:46:24Speaker 02

  And how's that decided? Coin toss?

• 2:46:26Joe Rogan?

  I don't know. I don't watch it. Is it?

• 2:46:30Speaker 03

  I have no idea.

• 2:46:31Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:46:31Joe Rogan?

  I don't know.

• 2:46:32Speaker 02

  I physically can't watch it, to be honest.

• 2:46:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, to me, it's like this, at least Zufa Boxing, is real. This is a real combat sport, whereas it's not just slapping each other in the head.

• 2:46:43Speaker 02

  Well, to me, the exciting thing, and correct me if this is wrong, but the exciting thing is, it has felt for a long time that seeing top boxers fighting each other is a rare occurrence.

• 2:46:52Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:46:52Speaker 02

  UFC, you see that every single card.

• 2:46:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well, the Saudis are stepping up, and that's, you know, with Turkey, Al Sheik, like, his, his role in boxing has really changed that. Like, what they've done with Riyadh seasons done is make fights that managers have said, "Don't do this." Like, a good one is Martin Bakoli versus, God, I forget his name, Anderson.

• 2:47:22Joe Rogan?

  Uh, young prospect, very good fighter and Bakoli is a fucking big, dangerous guy. And Bakoli knocked this guy out. Jared Anderson? Jared Anderson, that's it. Um, Jared Anderson was a undefeated, up and coming, prospect, young guy and Bakoli beat him up. And, uh, he really wasn't there yet. He wasn't ready for that guy yet.

• 2:47:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:47:45Joe Rogan?

  And Bakoli stopped him and that derailed this guy's career. But he probably got a big paycheck.

• 2:47:51Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:47:51Joe Rogan?

  Right. And so what I understand is there was a lot of people saying, that's a bad fight to make.

• 2:47:55Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 2:47:56Joe Rogan?

  Don't do it.

• 2:47:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, the UFC has been, seems to me from the outside, quite careful about like giving people, like Bo Nickel and, uh, Raul Rosas Jr. and Shawn O'Malley, just trying to get them to build up slow. And even they've, you know, Raul and Bo Nickel both lost at one point, right?

• 2:48:13Joe Rogan?

  Well, yeah, well, Bo Nickel fought Reinhard Ritter, who's a one champion and a huge guy for the middleweight division. And Reinhard did a fantastic job of, you know, you don't want to take Reinhard to the ground because he's an elite submission athlete. And standing up, he's got vicious knees to the body. That's like one of his best weapons and he, he fucked Bo up. But that was a good fight for Bo because he came back from that and fought Adolfo Viera and looked fantastic afterwards. Like, he's a real competitor and a winner and the kind of guy that gets knocked down like that is going to get back up and be five times more ferocious and that's what he is. But, you know, it's one of those things where it's like, why do you protect some people and not protect others? You know, and is it because they have better management?

• 2:48:58Joe Rogan?

  Is it, you know, because sometimes the UFC will tell you, like, if you want to fight in the UFC, hey, we've got to fight, uh, we need an opponent in four days, someone dropped out and you're going to fight blank. And that person who you're going to fight might be a surging contender who's fucking terrifying, who's putting everybody to sleep. And you have to make a decision, like, this is not a good fight for me at this point in my career, but if I say no to the UFC, maybe they will never offer me a fight again.

• 2:49:26Speaker 03

  And also you're a fighter and fighters from everything that I know, you're going to back yourself.

• 2:49:31Joe Rogan?

  Yes, but you have to do that intelligently, right? You have to realize that if you are in a process, and this is the thing about everyone up until like championship level, up until a certain point in time when you plateau, everyone is constantly getting better. So if you get better from training, you get better from work with your coaches, but you also get better with experience. And what boxers and boxing management has always done is make sure that you get the proper experience and the proper kinds of opponents are going to test you in certain ways along the way. So the idea is you give a fighter a stiff test that they can pass. You don't give a fighter a chance where they're going to compete against someone who's many, many levels above them, and they don't have a chance at all, because that can destroy confidence,

• 2:50:16Joe Rogan?

  that could like cause real damage to you, and get really badly hurt and never be the same again. There's certain fights that fighters have where they're never the same again. They get knocked out by someone and they just aren't the same. They get a flying knee to the face and they're done. They get a head kick and they're done, and they just are never the same guy again. You could point to numerous examples of good fights that weren't mismatches, but that a fighter was never the same again. It's a dangerous sport. It's, I mean, it is the most. I mean, it's not the most in terms of death. Boxing is the most in terms of death, and I think that's because they have less options. You know, you can't clinch, you can't hold on, try to take a fight to the ground. You can't defend yourself as well. There's also the thing where you get knocked down and you get back up.

• 2:50:59Joe Rogan?

  Well, you clear your head momentarily, but you're still fucked. And now you can't get out of the way of punches, and now you're really getting fucked up, and you're getting much more damage than you would have gotten if you got clipped that first time and then the guy punched you a couple of times when you're on the ground. Or you got choked out. Yeah, or you got choked out is way better. Choked out is way better. Arm bar, way better. Just tap, and then you're good.

• 2:51:19Speaker 03

  It's also the duration of the fights. Boxing matches tend to last for a lot longer normally. If they go the duration.

• 2:51:24Joe Rogan?

  They certainly can if it's 12 minutes, right? You're dealing with 36 minutes of fighting, of getting punched in the head versus 25 for an MMA fight. The opposite of that, you would say though, but they're not getting slammed on their head. They're not getting kicked. They're not getting kneed in the face. They're not getting cut open with elbows. There's a lot of things that can happen in an MMA fight that are way worse.

• 2:51:46Speaker 03

  But do you also think as well that when I watch MMA losses, look, of course losses are detrimental and they affect careers and they knock people back. But they don't seem to be as consequential as losses in boxing.

• 2:51:58Joe Rogan?

  In terms of your career?

• 2:51:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, in terms of your career and the way you're perceived.

• 2:52:01Joe Rogan?

  Right. Well, I think it's accepted that if you're fighting a bunch of different styles, you know, style versus style. You're, there's always a potential of losing, especially amongst the elite of the elite. And you're seeing more of that in MMA at the highest level.

• 2:52:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:52:16Joe Rogan?

  You're not seeing guys avoiding each other because there's one champion and it's a UFC champion in that weight class. And you have to fight that guy if you want the title.

• 2:52:24Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:52:24Joe Rogan?

  Whereas there's the WBC, the WBO, the IBF, and you have all these different organizations for boxing. And so you can be a champion while avoiding the other champions.

• 2:52:35Speaker 02

  Whereas in UFC, that's the thing that's exciting is like you get to see Max Holloway, who's a super dominant guy.

• 2:52:40Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:52:41Speaker 02

  And then he fights Charles Olivera.

• 2:52:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:52:43Speaker 02

  And it doesn't go that way.

• 2:52:46Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy.

• 2:52:47Speaker 02

  That was so dominant.

• 2:52:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it was so dominant. And Max Holloway was a two to one favorite, at least at some points in the betting line.

• 2:52:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:52:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:52:55Speaker 02

  And it kind of, I mean, obviously Hamza Chamayev is a whole category of its own, but it sort of felt a little bit that level of domination on the ground.

• 2:53:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, the difference is Holloway was getting dominated on the feet too. Olivera's fucking dangerous as shit on the feet. I mean, he was better everywhere.

• 2:53:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:53:12Joe Rogan?

  And he's bigger. He's a bigger guy and you could, you could see that in the exchanges. Like every time he got a clinch on Max, he just hoisted him up in the air and slammed him to the ground. It was so definitive.

• 2:53:22Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:53:22Joe Rogan?

  That was a spectacular performance by Olivera.

• 2:53:26Speaker 02

  It was.

• 2:53:27Joe Rogan?

  The thing, my concern going into that fight was I'd watched the Mateus, Mateus Gamrot fight with Olivera. I'm like, Olivera's as good, if not better than he's ever been before. Gamrot is fucking dangerous and he's a really good grappler. And they went to the ground and he was lost. Olivera was just tying him up in knots. He wasn't able to get anything off on Olivera. I'm like, what is Max going to be able to do on the ground against this guy? And then when it comes to standing up. Justin Gaethje said no one ever hit him harder than Olivera did. That Olivera, it's like, he carries big power in his punches. And big power in his kicks too. And he's, he's so reckless on the feet, not reckless I should say, but just like so aggressive on the feet because he wants you to take him to the ground. Because he's the best submission artist in the history of the sport.

• 2:54:10Joe Rogan?

  He has more submissions than anyone ever in the history of the sport. Wow.

• 2:54:13Speaker 03

  And the thing that you don't appreciate, I mean, you really kindly sorted out tickets for us in the UFC in New York. And you know these guys kick hard. You know they punch hard, but when you're there ringside and you feel the kick.

• 2:54:26Joe Rogan?

  Oh yeah, you guys were close. That's the thing is when you're close, you can hear the

• 2:54:30Speaker 02

  Well, do you know what happened though in New York? We sat down and then some guy that I didn't initially recognize came and sat in front of us. And that was Dylan Dennis and he kicked off this whole

• 2:54:41Joe Rogan?

  The brawl!

• 2:54:42Speaker 02

  He sat literally right in front of us.

• 2:54:44Joe Rogan?

  Oh, you had front row seat?

• 2:54:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, we did.

• 2:54:46Speaker 02

  So the actual fight.

• 2:54:47Joe Rogan?

  Oh boy, was that exciting?

• 2:54:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, I just turned to the side and then there was this just giant brawl right in front of us all of a sudden.

• 2:54:55Joe Rogan?

  Those are very unfortunate. I don't like those.

• 2:54:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, me neither. It was crazy. It was crazy.

• 2:55:00Joe Rogan?

  Well, Dylan Dennis, he knows how to get a lot of attention.

• 2:55:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:55:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, and I will say this, I don't agree with his behavior, but unlike a lot of online trolls, that guy actually does it in real life. Do you know what I mean?

• 2:55:12Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:55:12Speaker 03

  He actually, I'm like, I don't like you.

• 2:55:15Joe Rogan?

  Dylan can fight. He can fight. He's a very good submission artist. He's a Marcelo Garcia black belt. He's very legit on the ground. Conor McGregor brought him in for training, like for a lot of his camps.

• 2:55:25Speaker 02

  Yeah. Are you excited for the White House card? That looks really good.

• 2:55:29Joe Rogan?

  Uh, yes. Um, I'm excited. It's, it sounds crazy. I know it's gonna be very high security and high stress and weird to have a fight at the White House in the middle of a fucking war. But I would hope the war will be sorted out by June, but. Quite honestly, I'm not confident that that's gonna be the case. No.

• 2:55:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:55:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so that would be weird. Yeah. Having this very high-profile event where everybody's in one place at one time, right there. I hadn't thought of that. Yeah.

• 2:55:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:55:56Joe Rogan?

  So you're not excited to be there? Well, that seems like, it seems like you're asking for... Holy shit. I hadn't thought of that at all. How could you not think of that? Well, cuz I'm not gonna be there. You're the one that has to think of it. I was just like, this is a great lineup. I look forward to the fights. Yeah. Cuz if you wanna talk about hitting hard, I mean, Ilya Toporia, fuck me. That's when you think, like, Max Holloway and Charles Olivera. Charles Olivera dominates Max Holloway, and then you realize like how quickly Ilya Toporia starched Charles Olivera, and you go, how good is that guy? Right. He's a once-in-a-generation talent. Like, he's, he knocked out in three fights, three all-time greats. Insane. Volkanovski, and then he knocks out Max Holloway, and then he knocks out Charles Olivera.

• 2:56:41Joe Rogan?

  In two different weight classes, he knocks out three all-time greats, three fights in a row. And he just definitive starching of these guys. Like, he's a once-in-a-generation talent. And think how good Vol, how dominant Volk is. Yeah. Like, how good he looked against Diego Lopez. Right. How good Max Holloway looks all the time, especially in the striking exchanges. Max is a very hard guy to hit, and Ilya just dominated him. He's fucking spooky good and insanely confident, insanely charismatic. Yeah.

• 2:57:12Speaker 03

  Do you think part of it as well is just technique is so important? Is the most important thing? Because you look at Usik when he came up against Fury.

• 2:57:20Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:57:20Speaker 03

  And the first fight, I didn't give Usik a prayer. Like, Usik is basically a glorified cruiserweight.

• 2:57:26Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:57:27Speaker 03

  And you look at Tyson Fury, 6'8", undefeated, you know, he comes from a traveler background. This is a guy who was taught to box from the age of three. I've taught traveler kids. They all taught how to fight. They know how to fight. They know how to throw punches. Boxing is in their blood. And you just saw that he was so technically supreme.

• 2:57:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:57:44Speaker 03

  That Fury had no answer and lost consecutive fights against him.

• 2:57:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and then look at what he did to Dubois.

• 2:57:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:57:52Joe Rogan?

  Usik is special. I mean, he's basically a gigantic Lomachenko. Like, unbelievable movement, and he was trained by Lomachenko's father as well. Same trainer. Yeah, um, I mean, there's just people that are better than everybody else. And it seems like Ilya Toporia is one of those guys. He's just weirdly better than everybody else. And he, and he can take it too. Like, one of the fights that he had, so when he was competing at featherweight, he took a fight at lightweight against Jai Herbert. And Jai Herbert, in the first round, caught him with a perfect head kick. Rocked him, dropped him. And Ilya Toporia wound up grabbing his legs, taking him down, they fought on the ground. And then the second round, Ilya just put him into the shadow realm.

• 2:58:33Joe Rogan?

  He hit him with a combination against the cage, where he hit him with a, I think it was a left hook to the body and a right overhand that just spun his head around. It was wild. I mean, face first, face planted. He's, he's got freakish power. So it is technique, his technique is flawless. His technique in the grappling is flawless, but it's also-

• 2:58:53Speaker 02

  Oh, is he good at grappling as well?

• 2:58:54Joe Rogan?

  He's phenomenal at grappling.

• 2:58:55Speaker 02

  Really?

• 2:58:55Joe Rogan?

  That's his main base. He started off as a grappler.

• 2:58:59Speaker 02

  Really?

• 2:58:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:58:59Speaker 02

  I didn't even know that.

• 2:59:00Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, and his early fights, he was just taking people down.

• 2:59:02Speaker 02

  Cause you don't see that much nowadays, you just fucking knocks everyone out, basically, right?

• 2:59:05Joe Rogan?

  He's just, it's his mind, more than anything. His confidence is real. It's not bluster, like, he's really, he celebrates the fights the day before the fight. He has a celebration of his victory. He did that against Charles Olivera, they all went out to dinner, they're making toasts, celebrating his victory, the night before the fight itself.

• 2:59:27Speaker 03

  That's a high-risk strategy.

• 2:59:29Joe Rogan?

  It's a crazy thing, meanwhile, goes out and knocks him out in the first round, like, who fucking knocks out Charles Olivera in the first round like that? Especially now, like, the Charles Olivera of today, that's crazy. He's, it's, it's, it's many things, but the, the mind that allowed him to get so elite at grappling also allowed him to get so elite at striking.

• 2:59:48Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:59:49Joe Rogan?

  And it's, it's setups and traps, it's not just throwing wild bombs, it's defense, his defense is fantastic. You saw that in the Josh Emmett fight, Josh Emmett, like, as far as like one punch power, he rivals everybody, I mean, you saw that fight where he knocked Bryce Mitchell out with a punch to the forehead? That guy hits so fucking hard, and when you look at it, it makes sense, I mean, he's a fucking tank.

• 3:00:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:00:13Joe Rogan?

  And Ilya Toporia just slipped away from everything, slipped away from everything, and then eventually just put it on him.

• 3:00:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:00:19Joe Rogan?

  He's, he's great everywhere, man. He's great on the ground, he's great standing up, and- More importantly, it's his mind. Like, he doesn't make mistakes. He's a, he's just a force in there.

• 3:00:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:00:32Joe Rogan?

  He's the new breed. You know, like with every generation, there's, every generation builds on the success of the previous generation. They all learn from the elites of the past. He's our version of what's possible now.

• 3:00:45Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 3:00:45Joe Rogan?

  He's that good.

• 3:00:46Speaker 02

  I was hoping, I was hoping for the White House card Dana would do something and pull Jon Jones out of the bag.

• 3:00:52Joe Rogan?

  I was hoping that as well. Yeah, I was hoping that as well.

• 3:00:54Speaker 02

  That would have been really special.

• 3:00:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I don't know why that didn't happen. I don't know. I mean, there's Jon's version, there's the UFC's version. I don't know what was the stumbling block there.

• 3:01:05Speaker 02

  Well, I think it's fair to say him and Dana don't get on very well.

• 3:01:08Joe Rogan?

  I don't think it's that bad. It's, they certainly could make a deal. That's, I don't think it's as bad as like, say Francis Nganu. The Francis Nganu situation, like Dana does not like him at all and won't do any business with him, period.

• 3:01:20Speaker 02

  Cause that would be the fight, Francis Nganu versus Jon Jones.

• 3:01:23Joe Rogan?

  Oh my goodness.

• 3:01:24Speaker 02

  My word, that would be good.

• 3:01:25Joe Rogan?

  But also Alex Pereira versus Jon Jones would be the fight as well. Like, you wouldn't, it didn't, does, a title doesn't mean anything. You could do the BMF heavyweight version. Like, it doesn't matter.

• 3:01:35Speaker 02

  Right.

• 3:01:35Joe Rogan?

  Like, just those two guys fighting. I mean, that would be, titles are irrelevant when you're dealing with the all-time great in Jon Jones, the greatest of all time. And then Alex Pereira, a generational talent, who's the most devastating striker we've ever seen inside the sport. I mean, as you look at Ilya, I mean, Ilya's phenomenal, but Ilya is like more complete as a fighter. But Alex is freaky. I, did I ever tell you what Mark Goddard said? When he fought Khalil Rowntree? So, he, he beats Khalil Rowntree up and they stop the fight. And then Mark Goddard grabs me, like, as I go into the octagon, he goes, "The sound it makes when he hits them is ungodly." That's what he said. He goes, he goes, "Mate, I've been doing this for 20 years."

• 3:02:20Joe Rogan?

  He goes, "I've seen it all." He goes, "It's different. The sound, the impact is like..." He's a freak, man. That guy, he, but he's a physical freak. I mean, he's a real genuine Amazon warrior who's just built different than other people. You know, I'm sure you've seen him punch that machine.

• 3:02:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:02:38Joe Rogan?

  Where he gets like 190. Francis Nganu got like 129.

• 3:02:43Speaker 02

  What?

• 3:02:43Joe Rogan?

  And he got 190. Yeah.

• 3:02:46Speaker 02

  Holy shit.

• 3:02:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, no, it's freak power.

• 3:02:49Speaker 02

  I did not enjoy watching the end of that Khalil Roundtree fight.

• 3:02:51Joe Rogan?

  No, it was rough.

• 3:02:52Speaker 02

  That was rough. And Khalil Roundtree is like a fucking animal.

• 3:02:55Joe Rogan?

  He's a warrior. He's just a warrior. I mean, he knew going into that fight, he was willing to go out on his shields. He wasn't afraid. And he went after him. He went after him.

• 3:03:03Speaker 02

  He did.

• 3:03:04Joe Rogan?

  But the consequences of getting hit. And then Alex was starting to tune him up at the end, where he was leaning away from shots and then countering him, leaning away from shots and countering. He was, he was in his flow state. And that's where it got real spooky. Because Khalil became like a sitting target. And with each shot, his ability to get out of the way diminished. With each kick that landed, his ability to move diminished. And it got spooky.

• 3:03:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, and then it becomes a dilemma for the referee.

• 3:03:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:03:30Speaker 03

  Like, when do you actually step in?

• 3:03:31Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 3:03:32Speaker 03

  Look, there, there is a consent for the fighter to be there and to take part in the fight. But there comes a point where you have to step in for the, for the fighter's own health.

• 3:03:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. There comes a point where you realize they can't defend themselves anymore and they're getting just tuned up. And that was the end of the fight. I mean, that was the right time to stop it. But it was hard to watch.

• 3:03:51Speaker 02

  It was. But then you get fights like Usman versus Leon Edwards.

• 3:03:54Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:03:55Speaker 02

  Where he's getting smashed for five rounds and he just fucking pulls a kick out and then last minute knocks him out.

• 3:04:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. But he wasn't getting smashed.

• 3:04:02Speaker 02

  Not, not the way Khalil Roundtree was at the end. That's fair.

• 3:04:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. He wasn't getting, he was getting beat.

• 3:04:06Speaker 02

  He was getting beat, yeah.

• 3:04:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. But he wasn't like in danger of getting stopped or really hurt badly.

• 3:04:11Speaker 03

  Yeah. But that's why we all watch it, because it's that knowledge that anything can happen.

• 3:04:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:04:16Speaker 03

  You know, Hakeem Raman versus Lennox Lewis. You know, no one gave, no one gave Hakeem a prayer when he went in. He was, Lennox is a supreme fighter, Olympic gold medallist, one of the greatest to ever do it. And then that one punch he hit flush on Lennox's jaw and he was out. I remember watching it going, I mean, no one saw that.

• 3:04:36Joe Rogan?

  Especially in the heavyweight division. One punch with those guys.

• 3:04:39Speaker 02

  It's why I really like it, because in our world, like, you know, if I do a debate, everyone talks shit to each other. And like, you know, everyone talks shit, then they go have a debate, everyone still talks shit afterwards. In combat sports, everyone talks shit, and then you find out.

• 3:04:51Joe Rogan?

  Right. Yeah, it's very definitive. You win or you lose. It's not subject to other people's interpretations of... Because like, you'll see that in debates, too. Like, I'll see a debate where I think, like, for you, for example, well, you clearly won the debate. And then I'll see people say you got owned.

• 3:05:08Speaker 02

  Right.

• 3:05:09Joe Rogan?

  You know, and I'm like, okay.

• 3:05:10Speaker 02

  And all the people who agree with me say I dominated, and all the people who agree with the other guy say he dominated.

• 3:05:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and you'll see these pundits, and it's, that's a weird economy, right? There's a weird economy of commentators on other people's exchanges.

• 3:05:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:05:23Joe Rogan?

  And it's, that is a weird sport. Like, it's a weird...

• 3:05:26Speaker 02

  You've made loads of careers, there's loads of people, Joe Rogan said this on his pod, that's the entire content.

• 3:05:31Joe Rogan?

  They work for me, they don't even know it. They do, they make me more famous.

• 3:05:35Speaker 02

  Right. You're getting all the kickbacks.

• 3:05:37Joe Rogan?

  Also, you get to see what kind of a person they are, right? And they're silly bitchy people, you go like, well, the silly bitchy people don't like him. Or maybe someone who you agree with doesn't like me, like, oh, well, I don't like him anymore. Yeah. Which is fine. But it's like, that economy of commenting on other people constantly, the problem with that is, you've always put yourself in a position of an outsider.

• 3:06:00Speaker 02

  Right.

• 3:06:00Joe Rogan?

  You know, you're a com- like me, right? And when it comes to combat sports, I'm a commentator. That's all, that's all I do. I can't fight, I'm 58, right? I'm not going in there. So, it's like, I'm always going to be in this position of only being an observer and a commentator. I'm not going to be, like, for those people that are commentating on these debates, a lot of them probably fancy themselves intellectual gladiators. They just don't get the opportunity to do it.

• 3:06:25Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 3:06:25Joe Rogan?

  And occasionally they do, and they usually get trounced. Yeah. Because really, they're not that good, which is why they're commenting in the first place, and why they have these fucking stupid hot takes.

• 3:06:34Speaker 02

  Well, you know, the frustrating thing for me with the debates nowadays is how few people wanna have an actual discussion.

• 3:06:41Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 3:06:41Speaker 02

  It was so refreshing. Last time we came here, we had Dave Smith on our show. I don't know if you saw that one.

• 3:06:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I did. Yeah.

• 3:06:49Speaker 02

  We loved it. We loved it. And Dave enjoyed it. And, and you know, it was weird because we obviously have lots of different perspectives on things, but afterwards, a lot of people were like, "Oh, I can't believe you had Dave on." And I said to all of them, "Listen, Dave's only crime is that he has a different opinion to you." Because apart from that, he comes in, he shows up, he's super nice, he's respectful, he's polite, he doesn't do any dirty tricks.

• 3:07:13Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 3:07:14Speaker 02

  He doesn't argue about the definitions of words for 10 minutes, right? He just goes, "Here's my opinion, here's your opinion, let's discuss."

• 3:07:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:07:21Speaker 02

  And that's how conversations should happen.

• 3:07:24Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 3:07:24Speaker 02

  But so much of the debate stuff now is not, people aren't discussing the issues. They've just like decided you're a bad person. And that's what they're trying to achieve. They're trying to get a cheap laugh from the audience that they're playing to who's not even in the room. Because they know their retard followers are gonna watch it online afterwards and be like, "Oh, he owned them." But where did we get to?

• 3:07:43Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's just, I mean, it's just some people that are doing that, you know, and those people, that's all they can do. That's why they do it that way.

• 3:07:50Speaker 02

  Right.

• 3:07:51Joe Rogan?

  You know, if they were really intellectually compelling, and if they were like smart people, like, "I don't want enemies." Like, if I can have a sane, rational, peaceful discussion with someone where we disagree with something, I would greatly prefer that. Than have someone who's insulting me and I'm insulting them. We're trying to like get off on each other, like, "Why?"

• 3:08:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:08:10Joe Rogan?

  "I'm busy. I have things to do. Like, I don't need that kind of bullshit in my life. And I don't mind when someone disagrees with me. I think it's healthy." And I also wanna know why you think the way you think, genuinely.

• 3:08:22Speaker 02

  Right.

• 3:08:23Speaker 03

  You know, I see it as an opportunity as like, because we all have blind spots.

• 3:08:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:08:28Speaker 03

  We all have blind spots, we all have biases. I don't care who you are, how smart you are, you have biases, you have blind spots.

• 3:08:35Speaker 03

  Not me, mate. I know everything. But when someone goes, "Well, actually, Francis, you say this, but what about this? Have you thought about this? Have you read about this?" I'm like, "No." And they say, "Well, maybe you should."

• 3:08:46Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 3:08:46Speaker 03

  And maybe you actually, maybe won't change your opinion, but certainly have a more nuanced opinion.

• 3:08:51Joe Rogan?

  True, yeah.

• 3:08:52Speaker 02

  But also, we're talking about shit that actually matters.

• 3:08:55Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:08:56Speaker 02

  You know? And it deserves to be taken seriously.

• 3:08:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well, the answer is, don't engage with those certain people.

• 3:09:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:09:04Joe Rogan?

  You know?

• 3:09:04Speaker 02

  I'm learning that.

• 3:09:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we were having a conversation about one particular individual.

• 3:09:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:09:08Joe Rogan?

  Where I'm like, "Why? Don't bother."

• 3:09:10Speaker 02

  I can't believe you. I didn't say anything about that discussion, because I was just like, "I don't want anyone to waste their fucking time watching it." It was awful.

• 3:09:16Joe Rogan?

  I'm fascinated by that too, though, because I'm fascinated by these people that are doing that, where they're just trying to win and use tricks and be sneaky. Because like, they think of discourse in a completely different way.

• 3:09:28Speaker 02

  Right.

• 3:09:29Joe Rogan?

  They think about the whole thing in a completely different way. They're completely ideologically captured. And the place they're starting from is, "I want to prove this to be correct." Not, "I want to know why this person believes it to be incorrect, and I want to find out if maybe we have common ground, and maybe they know something I don't, or maybe I know something they don't, and let's find out."

• 3:09:50Speaker 03

  You know what I really want, and Konstantin and I have talked about it a lot, I want somebody on the left to come out and be brilliant at debating, and go to people on the right, "Well, you say this and you say this, but actually, let's look at this, let's look at that," and be a genuine intellectual force. And what I despair of is, I haven't seen anyone be, from the left, like that in basically a generation.

• 3:10:11Joe Rogan?

  I think the generation that you're talking about has been captured by some certain narratives that you have to agree to that aren't rational. So as soon as you do that, and you align yourself with this particular ideology, you're already saying, "I'm willing to believe some shit that doesn't make any sense at all, because this is the only way to be accepted by my tribe." That intellectually compromises you. And that also, I think, humiliates you in a certain way. It puts you in a position where you're saying something that you know can't be true, so you set up blind spots.

• 3:10:42Speaker 02

  Do you think they know it's not true?

• 3:10:44Joe Rogan?

  I think there's got to be a part of them that realizes there's a good argument that it's not true. You know, especially when it comes to like transgender stuff or or border stuff. There's there's certain things where like there's no real good faith argument that you should have an open border and allow fucking any psychopath to come across the border and then invade your community. That seems crazy. That seems crazy. Like if you understand anything about human nature and the the nature of the world and the level of poverty and crime that exists outside of the United States, particularly in third world countries where you're just allowing.

• 3:11:17Speaker 03

  I thought you were talking about Canada there, Joe.

• 3:11:18Joe Rogan?

  Ah, I'm all for them invading. They should come over. They should bail on their country until it gets better.

• 3:11:25Speaker 02

  I just ask you because I would find it so hard to go on stage in front of, well, what is now hundreds of thousands of people by the time it goes on the internet, right? And just vigorously defend something I didn't believe.

• 3:11:36Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's because you're smart. And I think the problem is a lot of these people aren't really intelligent. What they are is a person who has a good vocabulary, who's acquired a certain amount of technique and skill involved in talking really fast and spouting things that they've seen online that a bunch of narratives, like one of the things that people love to do is if you're talking to anyone that's on the right, they want to say, you know, you're you you support a 34 time convicted felon and, you know, there's a lot of a lot of things that they like to say, there's techniques involved. Instead of like discussing, anybody that looked at the actual Trump case, if you're rational and you're on the left, you say, that's a crazy case. There's no way that should be

• 3:12:21Joe Rogan?

  a felony. It's not a felony. There are 34 different misdemeanors and it's also it's past the statute of limitations. This is the craziest egregious misuse of justice. And the scary thing is if someone on the right gets in, they decide to do that to someone on the left, like you got to put your foot down, stop that from happening. The Russia, Russia, Russia stuff, like the all that stuff, the Russiagate stuff, like that's kind of crazy that someone on the left doesn't call that out and say, hey, guys, this is fucking dangerous because if you're lying and you're having intelligence agencies lie and you're having people lie on television and you're just accepting that, what, because it's your side? You're supporting your side?

• 3:12:57Speaker 02

  That's why.

• 3:12:58Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 3:12:59Speaker 02

  That's why. And and I find that very strange because what they do is they pivot to that, which is not relevant to the conversation we're having.

• 3:13:07Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 3:13:07Speaker 02

  We're talking about, you know, is it is it right to do these strikes on Iran or is it this or is it that? Is, you know, what's the situation in the Middle East or whatever? How how does bringing up? Trump's convictions or otherwise change that, it doesn't affect that conversation.

• 3:13:21Joe Rogan?

  At all.

• 3:13:21Speaker 02

  Or the border, or the trans thing, or any of the other things. And that's the thing is like, can we just argue the fucking point?

• 3:13:28Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think at a certain point in time, you're gonna have to choose real opponents. It's like a Jake Paul thing.

• 3:13:35Speaker 02

  But see, I want the real opponents, but where are they? Where are they? And we've had people on the show where it's like, we had this woman from the Guilty Feminist podcast, and she came on and we gave her 40 minutes, she basically laid out her whole vision. And it was respectful and polite, and it was a great conversation, actually. The moment I said, well, you know, you've been speaking for this time, here's some of the things that I see that don't make sense in my head, can you help me out? Immediately goes personal. Immediately.

• 3:14:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:14:03Speaker 02

  And that's what Francis is saying, like, I'd love to see people who have an ability to argue the point.

• 3:14:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:14:12Speaker 02

  And that's what Dave does. He argues the point, and that's either persuasive to you or it isn't.

• 3:14:17Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think the problem is their point is not very good.

• 3:14:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think that is the problem.

• 3:14:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and so you have to go personal. You have to attack people, you have to use ad hominem. It's the only way you can get anything off, and then you could try to get that person emotional and trap them.

• 3:14:31Speaker 02

  So why don't they change their opinion, then?

• 3:14:33Joe Rogan?

  It's a good question, because if you're ideologically captured, especially if you're on the left, like, it's a very clear ideology, and there's like, real blowback for deviating from it.

• 3:14:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, as we know, right? Because the moment you say, well, you're no longer on the left anymore.

• 3:14:49Joe Rogan?

  Right, well, a lot of people have been kicked out of it. A lot of people have been pushed into some weird quasi homeless land.

• 3:14:57Speaker 02

  Well, that's how we all ended up as like, right wing. It was like, fuck off with this shit.

• 3:15:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, fuck off with this shit.

• 3:15:02Speaker 02

  You know, 20 years ago, all the stuff that we talk about, it wasn't just like, not right wing. No one questioned. Do you remember 25 years ago, people running around going, we need an open border?

• 3:15:17Speaker 02

  Right? Right? Or like you can change your sex by just going like abracadabra. Right. No one said that. Right. And so we went right wing for like going, that's crazy. I know.

• 3:15:27Speaker 03

  You know, the most bizarre thing is watching all these kind of left wing lesbian feminists get described as right wing and getting kicked out.

• 3:15:34Speaker 02

  J.K. Rowling is a Nazi. Martina Navratilova.

• 3:15:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:15:38Speaker 02

  Fuck's my wife.

• 3:15:39Speaker 03

  There's a journalist called Julie Bindle, used to write The Guardian, one of the most left wing journalists, and she's lesbian, and she criticized like, and she was like the trans movement, that was it, out the door. Doesn't matter what you've done before, it doesn't matter you've done all this incredible work with women in female prisons.

• 3:15:56Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's because it's a cult. I mean, it's essentially like a religious ideology. Like, they will not take any heretics, like anybody that deviates from whatever their doctrine is, like, you're out, you're out forever. And that scares people. So that's one of the reasons why they're willing to comply and follow some of this goofy shit and say, no one's illegal on stolen land.

• 3:16:20Speaker 02

  What's interesting is it doesn't happen on the right nearly the same way. Like, you can see it now, the right is engaged in a fierce debate internally.

• 3:16:29Speaker 02

  And the people fucking argue and they hash it out. And then they like, they go have a beer afterwards.

• 3:16:34Joe Rogan?

  I think they're doing it just the same way.

• 3:16:36Speaker 02

  Just the same?

• 3:16:36Joe Rogan?

  I think it's a biol, I think it's a human thing. Yeah. I think there's people on the right that do it just the same way. There's people that call people out for not being MAGA enough, you know?

• 3:16:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:16:45Joe Rogan?

  It's just like right now, the whole thing's in turmoil, whereas there's not really the same kind of turmoil on the left where there's internal debate. The turmoil on the left is the left versus the right.

• 3:16:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:16:56Joe Rogan?

  The turmoil on the right, right now, I think there's a lot of people, right versus right. And they're trying to find out, like, and I think there's a lot of people that don't believe what they're saying either. They're just trying to find a thing that aligns with the biggest audience.

• 3:17:09Speaker 02

  I think that's definitely happening. I also think, though, internal debate within a big, broad church movement is a good thing. Because what you're arguing about is like, what is the right direction?

• 3:17:19Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 3:17:19Speaker 02

  You know?

• 3:17:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:17:20Speaker 02

  And I do think that is more healthy. I think working out what it is that, like, whatever. If you're on the right, we believe. I'm not on the right, but as I see that, I do think that's a healthy thing to do because you're arguing about the direction of that movement.

• 3:17:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:17:37Speaker 02

  And I think that's much healthier than what happens on the left where it's just like, well, if you don't agree with this wacky idea that's far, far out there, then you're no longer part of this.

• 3:17:45Joe Rogan?

  But I think the good thing about these debates is it exposes that. And anybody who's objective, especially anybody that is, you know, a swing voter or anybody who's in the middle of all this, which is a lot of people, a lot of people.

• 3:17:59Speaker 02

  Most people, I think, right?

• 3:18:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, most people are kind of in the middle on most, most political issues. They get to see how crazy some of this shit is and it makes them less likely to follow.

• 3:18:09Speaker 03

  You know, but it's also as well from a neutral perspective, and I've, I mentioned the point about, I want a strong left. I want a strong left which has got good ideas about how to tackle things which are really important, like inequality, like the cost of living. How do we make it that people can actually have a better standard of life? Where if a woman wants to stay at home with her kids, she can do that, which they're not for, then have to go out and have to work and put the kids in daycare, which then leads to a whole host of problems. How can we have a better world for ordinary people, which is what the left always used to be? I, we need a strong left to then challenge the right so that the center becomes a more fertile ground.

• 3:18:52Speaker 03

  And if we don't have that, if we have these crazy loons on the left, then what we have is a right which will come to dominate, which I don't think is good for society as a whole. I'm going to be honest with you.

• 3:19:02Joe Rogan?

  No, it's never good if one, one party, left or right, is completely dominant. It's not good.

• 3:19:10Speaker 02

  You need checks, right? And, you know, the right has its share of crazies too, as we've been talking.

• 3:19:15Joe Rogan?

  A hundred percent. Praise Jesus. We gotta wrap this up. Gentlemen, I love you guys.

• 3:19:20Speaker 03

  Very quickly.

• 3:19:20Joe Rogan?

  Oh, your book.

• 3:19:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, I've got a book.

• 3:19:22Joe Rogan?

  It's called Uneducated: My Life as a Teacher and Why You Should Never Become One and Never is in Bold.

• 3:19:29Speaker 02

  An inspiring story.

• 3:19:30Joe Rogan?

  Francis Foster. All right, I love you guys. So it's great to see you.

• 3:19:34Speaker 03

  Thank you very much, man.

• 3:19:34Joe Rogan?

  Bye, everybody.

• 3:19:49Joe Rogan?

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