Why Bitcoin Wins No Matter What The Fed Does | Jordi Visser

Jordi Visser is a veteran macro investor with 30+ years of experience and the author of the VisserLabs Substack. In this conversation, we break down the timing for the next bitcoin bull market, why the Clarity Act could send bitcoin to $100K, and how AI's exponential progress is leaving the market mispriced. We also discuss the Fed's rate decision, the Trump-Bessent-Warsh alignment on AI and crypto, and why the AI bubble skeptics have it backwards. ===================== Arch Public is an agentic trading platform that automates investment strategies across Stocks, Commodities, ETFs and Crypto. Whether you’re rotating into AI & Gold, allocating to the S&P 500, or accumulating Bitcoin, Arch Public executes your plan 24/7 without ever taking custody of your assets or funds. Sign up today at https://www.archpublic.com, and start your FREE automated trading strategy! ===================== Lava is a global platform for bitcoin financial services. Spend with Lava Card and earn up to 5% back in bitcoin with every purchase— all with no annual fee, no FX fees, and zero spread. Plus you can borrow against your bitcoin at the lowest rates, earn yield on cash, and move fiat or stablecoins globally. Get started at lava.xyz/POMP https://anchor.fm/s/b4841110/podcast/Lava is a global platform for bitcoin financial services. Spend with Lava Card and earn up to 5% back in bitcoin with every purchase— all with no annual fee, no FX fees, and zero spread. Plus you can borrow against your bitcoin at the lowest rates, earn yield on cash, and move fiat or stablecoins globally. Get started at lava.xyz/POMP ===================== TOKEN2049 returns to Singapore on October 7–8 at Marina Bay Sands. The world's largest crypto event. 25,000 attendees, 300 speakers, 1,000 side events and the whole industry in one place for two days, into the F1 weekend. Get 10% off your ticket with code POMP10 at https://token2049.com/singapore ===================== Simple Mining makes Bitcoin mining simple and accessible for everyone. We offer a premium white glove hosting service, helping you maximize the profitability of Bitcoin mining. For more information on Simple Mining or to get started mining Bitcoin, visit https://www.simplemining.io/pomp ===================== 0:00 - Intro0:57 - Do interest rates even matter anymore? 4:44 - Static vs Dynamic investors9:30 - AI agents vs hedge funds vs retail: the new market structure12:01 - How do you actually value crypto? (Robinhood chain & tokenization)23:09 - Timing the next bitcoin bull market27:05 - AI news dump: Astra, hacking scares & the AGI debate35:27 - The Fed's rate decision: three scenarios42:20 - Bessent, Warsh & Trump's Fed alignment50:54 - Bitcoin, AI & Space as $2 trillion assets

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends. Like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an ultra because it's not just a superior like beer. It's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 0:30Speaker 01

  Are your ad campaigns lighting up the dashboard? But not the pipeline. That's bull spend and marketers are calling it out in dashboard confessions.

• 0:39Speaker 02

  My boss asked for results, so I opened my dashboard for the only positive sounding metric I had. Impressions.

• 0:47Speaker 01

  Cut the bull spend. See revenue, not just reach. LinkedIn delivers the highest return on ad spend of major ad networks. Advertise on LinkedIn. Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a $250 credit. Go to LinkedIn.com/campaign. Terms and conditions apply.

• 1:00Speaker 03

  I think crypto would go up far faster than people realize. Bitcoin 100K if we get clarity? Yes, that type of move to me. And the reason I say it with conviction, the more I'm talking to people, let's say traditional finance. So related to the banks, because remember the banks are out there telling people they're ready for this. They're going to be involved, you know, all this stuff, tokenization. Pension funds need regulations.

• 1:26Anthony Pompliano?

  What's going on, guys? Today we got a great conversation with Jordy Visser. In this one, we talk about what's going on with oil, inflation, why the doomers are wrong, why the stock market's going higher, why Bitcoin's going higher, why the AI companies are going higher. What's going on with Astra, Grokbot, how Jordy's using these technologies? And then we even get into what's going on with Kevin Warsh, Scott Besant, President Trump. Are you going to bet against the White House? Should you think that the market is going higher? And what does all this mean for your portfolio? This one is fun. It's informative and I promise you're going to learn something. Here's my latest conversation with Jordy Visser. All right, Jordy, I hear a lot of people in the macro world talking about interest rates and oil. I know people have been talking to you about this recently. When I'm using AI, when I'm thinking about Bitcoin and then I hear someone talking about interest rates in oil,

• 2:10Anthony Pompliano?

  my brain is telling me, oh yeah, that's what we're supposed to think about in the macro world. But my heart's kind of telling me like, does that stuff really matter anymore? What do you think?

• 2:19Speaker 03

  Well, it depends what you mean by, does it matter? For me, I love it.

• 2:25Speaker 03

  In the video I did this past weekend, I was as direct as possible. We're worried about whether the Fed is going to raise 25 basis points. And I think the curve says they're going to raise 25, but maybe there'll be one more, possibly two more before they come back down.

• 2:48Speaker 03

  Why anyone would care about this when earnings are growing 30 plus percent is beyond me. Why anyone would care about this when, as I showed in the video, there is no rate sensitivity to the AI trade, zero. Like despite what people want to believe and the bear porn that goes everywhere. We're like, oh, rates are going higher. These guys can't raise rates or CDS is blowing out.

• 3:13Speaker 03

  Progress is moving right now at a pace so fast and is accelerating by the day, not by the week anymore, by the day. The models are getting released. I was talking about Grokbot the last two weeks. Today we'll talk about Astra. I don't, I mean, I have Grokbot doing things for me, but it's not even in league of anything I can do with Astra now, which is now combining the agentic side with the chat, with the work, with images, which everything else. So when people talk about rates and yeah, I had a bunch of conversations this week where I'd get a text message from, again, people I've known in the business a long time, starting with, the market's going to fall because rates are going higher and oil is going higher.

• 3:54Speaker 03

  And I'm like, did you watch my video like year over year oil for the sixth contract? Is up 20% from where it was a year ago? Why do you care about this? Just because you see a chart that shows it making the highest price for the December contract when it's below where it was? Didn't we just go through this stupidity with every oil person saying that we'd be? I mean, we were supposed to be out of gasoline in California during July. So like if some, if people are that wrong and now we're six, seven months from the beginning of the war

• 4:34Speaker 03

  and we've now heard that they're building pipelines so that Hormuz is not as important or not important at all at some point, three years from now? Why, you don't think the market is smart enough to look through this? But most importantly, again, I'll say it, if earnings were only growing 5% a year and if the economy was sensitive to interest rates, because what was driving the economy was like what was driving the economy before the great financial crisis, which was housing, rate sensitive stuff, I'd worry. But the economy is now digital. The economy is not based on what we thought it was with autos and this. We know that people are not going out and borrowing money to buy housing.

• 5:17Speaker 03

  We know they're not going out borrowing money to buy cars the way they did. But the household net worth is going higher because profit margins are booming and the stock market's going higher. So I just think when I listen to, are we going to raise 25 or not? And oil's up and 10 year yields are up 35 to 40 basis points since July. I just think people are, they're missing the story for what's happening. And this is a reflection that people just either don't believe in AI or they don't use it.

• 5:45Anthony Pompliano?

  I have a, a new framework to put people bucket wise in. There's static people and dynamic people. What I mean by that is usually you think about, I want people who work for me or work with me or I work for who are dynamic. They're constantly learning, they're constantly evolving, they're constantly improving. Dynamic people is the same thing like a volatile asset, right? You need volatility for it to go up. So I think people who are intelligent and want returns, they're drawn to dynamic and volatile. But actually you can put people in bucket of, do they think statically or dynamically? So for example, tariffs are going to lead to all these crazy prices, but whatever. Static people just looked at it as the tariff increases, that means that inflation increases. Dynamic people say, well, if tariffs increase, then does domestic manufacturing increase?

• 6:30Anthony Pompliano?

  Does this happen? Does this have, what are the other tools the government has to blunt the effects? Oh, maybe it's not going to be a big problem. Oil is another good example right now. If we go into Iran, then oil will spike. And if oil spikes, then that means that every single person's paying $10 at the gas pump. And you know, we're going to blow out inflation, et cetera. Dynamic people think, well, what if we have our own oil or Venezuelan oil? Or maybe we have a pipeline that we build or maybe the economy isn't as stuck with the oil sensitivity that it used to be. And so when you think about this like static versus dynamic, I actually think that almost all of the like, you know, fear porn, kind of doomsday predicting is people who are just looking at it from a, in this moment in time, X happened, so Y has to happen because I've read it in a textbook.

• 7:14Anthony Pompliano?

  But actually the people who are on the internet, they are so used to the speed of information, the dynamic nature, and they've seen this play out enough times now where almost all of the doomsday saying is coming from like the traditional world of people who are just now like getting on the internet. But the people who have been on the internet for a long time, and I would put the AI people, the crypto people, et cetera. They're actually not bearish at all. Like they're super bullish, almost to the point where actually they're getting accused of being too optimistic. You know, that AGI is going to like, you know, kill humanity. Like, I mean, it's like crazy, crazy stuff. So I do think in a weird way, it maybe it's me just rationalizing, being terminally online now is such an advantage because it keeps your brain from like getting to be hard cement and looking at the world statically. But like what you're describing is really just a dynamic view of how the economy is playing out.

• 7:59Speaker 03

  So yeah, the only thing I would disagree with what you said at the very end there is I think being online is super critical all the time as opposed to be sitting at a job and maybe looking at a screen. But you also have to be curious enough to look at all angles from a story. If you just get caught watching Fox News or MSNBC, you're not really changing your brain. I think the point you're making, so let me use an analogy and just say, you know, one of the great things about being a sports fan and especially using the Knicks. If you go back to Jalen Brunson in college and you look at him today and you would have asked,

• 8:35Speaker 03

  A million people, when he came out of Villanova and was a second round draft pick, if he would become one of the top 10 players in the world, the answer would be zero chance. Like, he's not gonna morph into that. And they would use the traditional things of, well, he's not athletic enough. He's short, like, he's, how, how is that gonna turn into something? You still have people that said, you can't win a championship with your best player being someone like Jalen Rose, even when he had evolved into an all-star. The thing is, Jalen Brunson got better every single year. That is the whole point of AI right now. And if you're living on the past, when historically, oil's gone higher and, like, people will say

• 9:18Speaker 03

  inflation's high, and I'm like, core CPI is 2.4% year-over-year. You pick the highest one, PCE core year-over-year, which is going to be revised, it changed. And Kevin Worsch has publicly said, he doesn't agree with PCE cores. And he's got a whole group getting together to figure out what they should look at. I, I just think people in this dynamic side, and as someone who grew up this way, I was trained to be a trader. I sat in front of screens, minute by minute. If people haven't done it, I mean, you get caught thinking every single thing that comes out for a second matters in some big scheme. So when people text me now, and I don't have that side, I'm like, working on AI. And this happened to me when the PPI came out.

• 10:02Speaker 03

  People are like, oh, stocks care about this. And I remember saying, like, what are you, are you kidding me? What do you mean they care about this?

• 10:09Anthony Pompliano?

  But is that an opportunity? Like, is it, is it almost like, hey, let, let the market react to the old world? You know, economic data points, et cetera. And then you could almost arbitrage and say, I have a medium to long-term view on these. And so when they dislocate based on the short-term metrics, just like have emotional control and capitalize on it?

• 10:30Speaker 03

  Yes. So this gets into the market structure thing. And I believe we've talked about this before, and I think everyone who works on Wall Street will laugh at this. Everyone who works at a hedge fund, and having done it, and having people work for me, they really are measured in many, many ways, minute to minute. Like, they have a drawdown level, which means that if something happens in their portfolio and it draws down 50 basis points on a day, when they're running a market neutral portfolio, and they, they're only allowed to have a 5% drawdown, well, they've now lost 1/10 of what they can lose. Will it affect their emotion? Of course. And they start extrapolating that this could get worse. What is happening in the market structures, I think you should break it into three simple

• 11:15Speaker 03

  buckets. One is, there's the active traders that have a, a drawdown level where their capital will change and their kids won't be able to go to private school anymore. You have AI agents, which don't have any kids and don't care about anything, and their job is just to make money. They don't have the emotion that, or the, the, the bars that, that, they have fixed rules, but they don't have that stuff. And then you have retail traders sitting at home, or anyone that has a longer time horizon, that doesn't have to respond to, oh, the PPI, and that's to your point. Now that I'm in that crowd, meaning I'm managing my own money, I want bad news to happen at a time when people are panning, especially when it comes to crypto, where I think we're at the beginning of a mega bull market.

• 11:57Speaker 03

  It helps me to be able to get entry points into things if these guys are worried. I think the agents do respond to what the hedge fund people are reacting to, meaning, oh, historically, if the PPI comes out a little bit hotter and rates go higher, then we need to sell stocks. And the agents go, fine, we're gonna sell stocks too, we're gonna jump in front of you. But then the next day, the agents don't care about what happened the day before. They're looking at what's gonna happen today. What are the hedge fund guys doing today? Okay, I'm gonna go buy in front of them. And I think this is becoming a, a very dangerous game, because when I talk to people who are still managing money, the market, they complain about it. It's not easy to trade, because you're getting these herky-jerky moves every day, and there's no consistency.

• 12:38Speaker 03

  And so my belief is that we are in a speed of a game that has changed dramatically. And the people that have the big advantage now are the people that can look through it and say, well, I know the earnings of the S and P are gonna be up 20% next year. So, and I know there's not gonna be a recession. I know rates don't matter, I know oil doesn't matter. So if these guys are gonna over, overreact to this stuff, well, it gives me a better entry point. And I think that's what's happening for a lot of different people in the marketplace.

• 13:01Anthony Pompliano?

  Are the Bitcoin and crypto people better suited to invest today? Because they've been through so much volatility in such a short period of time?

• 13:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, it goes further than that.

• 13:11Speaker 03

  The question I get asked most by people getting into crypto, now that I've spent a lot of time there, is how do we value it? And I've started, I'm gonna write a paper this week, or I already, I already wrote 75% of it. I did do a lot of research. I had to find a person, which I did, and I'm gonna show it on the video this week, who went through a metric. And the reason this person was interesting, he, he's part of the Ethereum, or was, I think he's still part of the Ethereum Foundation. He was also part of the Solana, whatever it was, Foundation.

• 13:45Speaker 03

  The interesting part is, he really talks about valuing, and let's just take Ethereum, because that's where his focus is, as the ecosystem, and its most similar comparison is the internet. And so regardless, I don't like people getting into philosophical debates. I'm old enough to remember the way people valued the internet back in the 90s. And people have to think about this. Now, most people that we're talking to, were not trading during the 90s. During the 90s, when the internet started, and when we led into the dot-com bubble, the way they were valuing Amazon was eyeballs. And he mentions, like, we didn't have metrics back then. And he goes through, like, it was eyeballs, it was clicks, it was a bunch of different things, but it didn't mean anything.

• 14:30Speaker 03

  Now, he was involved with Napster, so he's an original peer-to-peer person. That's what makes his angle so interesting. I also think he's very academic and boring, which is why whenever I've asked people in crypto, they don't, either they've never heard of him, or they've never followed him. I listened to him, I went, this guy finally hit on it. Like, for crypto to be valued as something, we don't know what the metrics are going to be. And we're starting to see that with Robinhood Chain.

• 14:57Anthony Pompliano?

  What's going on there?

• 14:59Speaker 03

  The volumes are picking up, everything is starting to go with tokenization. And again, if I go through the, this year, the importance of the ecosystem, and I think of perps, I think of prediction markets, I think of all of the things like SpaceX, what its valuation was before it went public, and how quickly the market kind of migrated around to it. This 24/7 active trading, and what Robinhood Chain, built on Ethereum, is doing through Arbitrum, is literally saying, we're at the beginning of tokenization. Like, we're, we're literally at the beginning of it. Now, we've talked about it a lot, and I've said that the network effects will kick in. If you take what's happening now, and the person's name that I was referencing, and

• 15:41Speaker 03

  I, I, I don't know the proper way to pronounce it, but William Goyaber, okay? If you go back, he was on a, he did a TED Talk somewhere around 2015.

• 15:51Speaker 03

  I asked ChatGPT from the transcript to go through and say, how much of what he said back then about the blockchain, it was all on the blockchain, is correct? And it went through and said, his vision of what was happening was about an 8.5 out of 10. If we drill down to each separate component, it's about a 5, 5 out of 10. But 8.5 out of 10 for the general thing of the importance of the blockchain and what will happen eventually over time. And so the Robinhood Chain, fast forward 11 years, that's what's going on right now. Like, we're starting to get to the point where tokenization is happening. And even though it's being driven predominantly by meme coins, at this point, in terms of the volumes, that's what should be happening. And I mentioned Bucket last week, and I said, this is a meme coin, but with other component

• 16:36Speaker 03

  parts of the programmable side that people should be paying attention to, because it's a lead-in to what is going to happen more and more in Robinhood Chain. So for me, and thinking about the crypto side and what's actually gone on, I again believe that people that were trained in crypto, number one, they deal with speed. Number two, they deal with quote-unquote pump and dump, or things that move a certain way, they get used to the volatility, they've been bred on it. But the other thing is, how do you value a market? The S and P 500, in a world that, of exponential as opposed to linear? And that's why when you go to my website, and you go, look, I've got a V for Visser. The left side of the V is linear, the right side is a parabola.

• 17:19Speaker 03

  And the reason it's a parabola is because when things start changing quickly, the only people, in my opinion, that can deal with the movements are people that have been trained in trading in chaos. I grew up in emerging markets, I think crypto is a very similar thing.

• 17:32Anthony Pompliano?

  This episode is brought to you by Lava. The Lava card is the first credit card that allows you to earn up to 5% back in Bitcoin on every single purchase. Most cards have steep annual fees and unclear points programs, but the Lava card offers a much better deal. Earn real Bitcoin every time that you spend. Plus, there's no annual fee, there's zero FX fees and zero spread when you spend internationally. On top of that, Lava gives you access to a Bitcoin line of credit, yield on cash, instant stablecoin deposits and withdrawals, on and off ramps to and from your bank account, and much, much more. With Lava, you can borrow against your Bitcoin at the lowest rates, earn yield, move money globally, and stack Bitcoin with each and every purchase you make. Most financial services squeeze you with high fees, confusing rewards programs.

• 18:16Anthony Pompliano?

  Lava keeps it simple, and they help you build your long-term savings via your everyday spend. Visit lava.xyz/pomp to get started in just a few minutes today. lava.xyz/pomp to get started today. Robinhood Chain, like, explain maybe just in a little bit of detail, what exactly is happening there? And it seems like they really have pushed themselves to the frontier in terms of, they now, I think, make more revenue off of the prediction markets than they do off of stocks. They have really doubled down on agentic trading. I think Public, many others have done that as well. But it does feel like Robinhood, which started out as like, come buy stocks and don't pay

• 19:00Anthony Pompliano?

  a commission, was pretty dead square in the center of electrical finance, and the, like, challenger-type attitude was around fees.

• 19:11Anthony Pompliano?

  They have completely migrated to like, let's be on the frontier of the products we offer and how people interact and has become almost more of a challenger, you know, type neo-bank or like fintech than where they started, which is very unique. Usually you start off as like the most extreme version and then you become more of like the man, right? They seem to be going the opposite direction with at their size and scale seems, you know, a little bit unexpected.

• 19:37Speaker 03

  Well, let's go back to the title of my research, AI crypto macro nexus. So what's the macro part of Robinhood? Well, it's the original stock trading side. What's the crypto side? Well, now we've got Robinhood chain. What's the AI side? Well, we have the agentic plugin that's going to this. I think what Vlad has done, and he spoke this week at a Goldman Sachs conference. You mentioned some of the numbers. They are, and I wrote a paper on this. For people who are in the traditional finance world, Robinhood is the company to go look at to figure out what this means in terms of this merge that's happening. It's the problem that people have is how do we value this? Well, tokenization is something that you and I have talked about and it is probably the.

• 20:20Speaker 03

  I'm at Freedom Tech next week. Are you going to Freedom Tech? Okay. I'm looking forward to doing my presentation down there. And the reason is because when I put the slides together, one of them is about this bridge being built right now. Tokenization for me is the bridge between the two worlds because Robinhood has a community of traders. And I mentioned last week that when I went to a Robinhood event last year to speak on a panel, I was blown away by the community aspect. Now, this is after I had been at your event. I'd been at Raul Powell's event. And I saw this community, which was very different than events I went to on Wall Street. There's no community. It's literally like you put a bunch of people to get together. They want to kill each other.

• 21:01Speaker 03

  It's, it's a competitive world while a community of Robinhood of crypto is very different. And so I think Robinhood merges not just these technologies together. I think it merges this community aspect and it's very easy to take the community that is trying to make money as a group trading on stocks. They don't care whether it's Palantir. They don't care whether it's Micron. They don't care whether it's Ethereum, whether it's a meme, whether it's Bucket. It doesn't really matter to them. They're just trying to make money and they're doing it in a way and Robinhood has, yes, they've changed their business enough that the reason I wrote a paper on them was they got a couple of upgrades last week.

• 21:42Speaker 03

  And specifically Morgan Stanley publicly upgraded the stock. It was not based on the crypto revenues, though. It was based on other things and the fact that the company was becoming a little bit like Apple, meaning multiple service revenue streams. And I think that's the thing to go through. When you go back to the William Goyaber stuff, I believe that we are leaving a world of revenues and we are entering a world of two things that have value. Trust, and that's where Ethereum becomes really important. It's where Bitcoin becomes really important because I think in a world of AI, people are underestimating the amount of hackings and the lack of trust that will be there. And the trust that a company will be here in a decade.

• 22:24Speaker 03

  And we can talk more about that, but some of the things with Astra, but I think terminal value is declining. So trust is number one. The second thing is velocity of, of, of, it's the flow. It's the volume. It is just the massive speed. And AI agents get a hell of a lot more done than humans. So we're leaving a world where human beings were doing the trading and doing the consuming and doing everything. And we're getting to one where AI agents are doing more and more. And so Robinhood is built for that. You mentioned the agentic trading side. I just did a video, which is going to go up on my subscriber wall this week to teach people how to build and backtest a model using a GitHub code that I put together that they can then pull in,

• 23:06Speaker 03

  stick it in their own LLM and then backtest something to create a signal model. And I go through a training episode of how they can do this and where the edges are for the humans and where the edges are for AI so that they, and I think retail traders are very good at this. So I think it's going to work well, but then take that information and plug it into Robinhood. And it's not just Robinhood. Mu Mu has this. Interactive brokers have this, like the agentic side where you can do it and you can paper trade it. You don't have to put money in, but I think it's really important for parents to have their kids do this because doing this type of stuff is the beginning of training your children on how to be entrepreneurs. And I've talked about my son on this point. I don't talk about my daughters as much because they're in the healthcare field. They're helping people.

• 23:48Speaker 03

  My son's going to be more of an entrepreneur, but he's using agents daily. And I think for parents out there and everyone, what Robinhood is allowing you to do is actually become a training ground for building stuff. So I think of Robinhood definitely in kind of the Apple App Store place. Multiple revenue streams and it's expanding, not just with prediction markets, but also with what they've been doing right now with the trading side on Robinhood chain.

• 24:09Anthony Pompliano?

  You mentioned earlier that you think crypto is on the cusp of a very big bull market. Is that a in the month of September type thing? Is that a through the end of Q4, we should expect this? Well, how do you think about timing for the next great Bitcoin bull market?

• 24:25Speaker 03

  Well, I, and I hate, I hate for people to have to sit there and acknowledge it this way. So quarter to date, when we come to sit in here, the best performing asset by far of all the major assets, and I'll say major assets by anything that's worth, that has a valuation of let's say more than a hundred billion dollars. Ethereum is by far the best performing asset, like not even close. It's, I think it's almost double Bitcoin quarter to date. While the S and P 500 is around flat, Nasdaq's around flat. So we've so far had Bitcoin and crypto outperforming for a quarter while stocks have done nothing. I think.

• 25:04Anthony Pompliano?

  That's good.

• 25:05Speaker 03

  That's very good, but the importance of that is the low correlation, but it also means the next thrust to me, stocks will go up with crypto with it. So I do think we're at the beginning stages of getting away. I have been very surprised at how, I don't want to say negative, but how

• 25:26Speaker 03

  little people want to embrace this. I don't hear crypto people is like uber bullish, at least let's say the regular people that I talk to on a, they're skeptical because.

• 25:35Anthony Pompliano?

  The crypto people are skeptical about Bitcoin and crypto's recent rally.

• 25:38Speaker 03

  Well, that we're not going to retest the lows first.

• 25:42Anthony Pompliano?

  They're, they're worried that we will.

• 25:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, they're worried that we will. And I guess that makes sense. That's the way it should be after a bear market.

• 25:47Anthony Pompliano?

  They got four cycles psychosis, you know?

• 25:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:49Anthony Pompliano?

  It's like, hey, October is the bottom. That's what they've, that's what they've been told. They line up their charts. I get it.

• 25:54Speaker 03

  You know, I'm starting to lean more towards how important the clarity act situation is not, it's not going to stop what's going on regardless of what happens because they're going to put rules in place. But if anything positive happens on clarity, and it's funny, you go in X, you read Brian Armstrong, you read, you know, I forget Patrick's name. What's the?

• 26:17Anthony Pompliano?

  Patrick Whit?

• 26:18Speaker 03

  Yep. I mean, they've been very positive this week that it's going to surprise the prediction markets, which are below 20%. But I think that's for this year. We, if we got anything positive on clarity,

• 26:30Speaker 03

  I think crypto would go up far faster than people realize.

• 26:33Anthony Pompliano?

  Bitcoin 100K if we get clarity?

• 26:36Speaker 03

  Yes. That, that type of move to me, and the reason I say it with conviction, the more I'm talking to people, let's say traditional finance, so related to the banks, because remember the banks are out there telling people they're ready for this. They're going to be involved, you know, all this stuff, tokenization.

• 26:54Speaker 03

  Pension funds need regulations for this. And so for the ecosystem as a whole, which is really the most important thing to me, Bitcoin can keep going higher and it can

• 27:06Speaker 03

  drag a little bit of glass on here.

• 27:11Speaker 03

  Bitcoin can rally.

• 27:12Anthony Pompliano?

  You ever seen someone get wounded on a podcast? You just did.

• 27:16Speaker 03

  It's all good.

• 27:21Speaker 03

  If clarity goes through, I think the ecosystem will be valued higher immediately because I think this opens up investment from pension funds, which are critical to the overall size of the money coming in. I think they need regulation. I think they need something to be able to, again, they're fiduciary. They can't just jump into something. Bitcoin has been around long enough that they can do that, but I think investing in the ecosystem, which is what the entrepreneurs need. I don't think it's a venture thing. I think it's a pension thing. And I think if clarity goes through, it's a big deal.

• 27:52Anthony Pompliano?

  It does feel to me like clarity can't hurt. And like by not being passed, it can't hurt, but it would be a net new buyer entering the market or at least getting more excited and kind of sending us upward.

• 28:05Anthony Pompliano?

  On AI, there's been a ton of stuff that's come out. GPT Live One, I think it's called like the voice. Astra got released. We got a whole debate as to whether OpenAI was unethically looking at mathematicians, potential solutions to these century old problems. We have a guy who got a job at Anthropic for six weeks, quit, says it, AI is going to kill everybody. But then somehow he's part of like the Doomer crowd and they're all retweeting him and like piling on. Seems kind of like a psy op, but unclear. What the hell is going on in AI?

• 28:42Anthony Pompliano?

  I mean, there was like a year's worth of progress in the last seven days.

• 28:46Speaker 03

  Well, and you know that, I mean, Paul Tudor Jones wrote an op ed in the Wall Street Journal. And I think, I think Greg Jensen from Bridgewater also came out. Again, on the risks with AI and how I think the, I think Jensen's thing was it's going to kill people.

• 29:03Anthony Pompliano?

  Jensen said that?

• 29:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was in the news today or something. Here's the thing. I am a person that believes that any progress in AI from this point. We should be expecting there to be problems. I mean, I don't know if you heard the Boston Scientific News this week, but they had a hacking and they basically said they're not going to meet their earnings numbers for the rest of this year. And they had taken down and had an impact on some other stocks like Stryker.

• 29:34Speaker 03

  And then there was a power plant hack in the UK. And I think we got some information on Iran's plans on hacking and everything.

• 29:44Anthony Pompliano?

  This is a crazy story.

• 29:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:45Anthony Pompliano?

  So first of all, I'm an investor in a company called Galvanic. I must give them a shout out. Somebody who worked at the White House left and his whole thing was we need to secure the critical infrastructure in America from cyber attacks. And when he first started talking about this a couple of years ago, people are, what are you talking about? He's like, yeah, water treatment plants, you know, power plants, whatever. Josh Steinman looks like a genius right now.

• 30:10Anthony Pompliano?

  Like, do not go short, Joshua Steinman. So that's on the power plant stuff. This Iran story is almost literally, you couldn't put it in a movie. So for those that don't know, Iran was supposedly taking their war plans, the Ayatollah's funeral plans, targeting lists of people, spreadsheets, all this stuff, and they were feeding it to Claude. Now, it does make sense, like if you want superhuman intelligence, it's probably smarter than anyone in Iran because it's smarter than anyone in the United States. So like, okay.

• 30:43Anthony Pompliano?

  But then Claude was like, wait a minute, we're not going to let Iran use our compute and intelligence to then plan killing people or all this kind of crazy stuff. So they had the plans and I'm assuming they turned it over to the government. Like, that's kind of the same thing that OpenAI is being accused of on the mathematician problem of like, oh, that's a, you guys are going to solve that century old problem? It'd be a shame if we figured out the exact same way to solve the problem, which I'm not saying that they did it. But if they are training the model on the questions that are being asked, and then all of a sudden they solve the problem. It does feel like privacy, does feel like data security, does feel like owning your own intelligence is going to become pretty important here.

• 31:29Speaker 03

  All right, so we've, we're, for anyone who either doesn't know these stories or doesn't know the importance of both of them, and especially the, the Navier Stokes part. If you're living in a world talking about oil and interest rates going higher, again, I just want to say we are so far past everything now. I asked ChatGPT what the IQ of Astra is because I used Astra on, on Labor Day. And I built a model, a signal model, and it led me to doing the video that I mentioned. And the reason was that I was blown away with the step function change in this. Now, I had talked about Grokbot for two weeks here. Astra took me to another level.

• 32:14Speaker 03

  So these stories that are coming out, whether it's the Doomer story or whether it's the progress story. The reality is AI is here and it has a huge impact. When you go through the Astra side, and I listened to an interview with Greg Brockman on TBPN.

• 32:29Speaker 03

  Where when you listen to it, basically we've reached the point where, okay, we used to have chat and we had OpenClaw. Then we had chat, cowork and OpenClaw. Well, now we have cowork and Claude code and Claude chat. What Brockman said is basically everything now is inside ChatGPT.

• 32:56Speaker 03

  What happened with what they did, and I think people should spend time on the Navier Stokes thing. From, and if you listen to Moonshots from this week, they go through everything, but 100,000 GPUs. I believe that's what that number is. Now, 100,000 GPUs, so this was brute force. And this gets back into like, anyone who thinks open source is going to compete with the brute force to get, you know, a century old formula, math problem figured out.

• 33:31Speaker 03

  Leading to physics problems that'll be solved. And when physics problems of people really want to spend time on it, which I did this morning for a while, and we talked about it before we sat down. I mean, we're talking about terminal value for the S and P 500 changing for any physical company, any mining companies, anything. Now, it won't change it for the earnings for the next three years, four years. But five years and out, as I keep saying all the time. I think you have a question of whether these companies that are doing old traditional things of mining are really going to be able to make money ever again. If we've got solutions that get down to physics and get into things for the heart and things for drug discovery and think

• 34:12Speaker 03

  everything that you can imagine, and that's why you have to spend time, not kind of reading about Navier Stokes, but just going to ChatGPT and say, what does this mean for the world? And I'll have a slide on that in there for my own exploration for 30 minutes to learn about it. So AI is moving so fast and the compounding of these models is going at a speed which is unbelievable that when Jensen Huang goes on stage and says, congratulations to OpenAI on hitting AGI. Imagine in a week where eight, Jensen Huang.

• 34:43Anthony Pompliano?

  Godfather of AI.

• 34:45Speaker 03

  Says, congratulations for reaching AGI. And the front page of the stock market has Besse saying, I am the house on one side. And on the other side, you have everyone panicking over rates in oil. The week that Jensen Huang says that in AGI, everyone's worried about that. And that is the reason why I just think for people that are using what's happening on the news and what's happening in the market, the S and P 500 is unchanged, or at least as of yesterday, it was unchanged since like June 2.

• 35:17Speaker 03

  But we've made all this progress in AI, we've solved all these things, we've jumped. The market's completely mispriced relative to the progress that's happening. And that means that it's like keeping a water on, a ball underwater. And at some point it explodes higher. And that's why I said, I think crypto as just a segue into why it'll go higher. Well, it did really well when stocks couldn't move and all these panic fears went, what would happen if oil went down for a week? And rates went down for five days and we got the rate hike. And everyone's like, okay, now what? It's like the midterms, Jordy, the midterms are going to kill this and the Dems are going to win this and data centers are going to be on like, so I guess the day the midterms are over and you turn around and you've been worried about this, what are you going to say when the stock market goes higher? Like, sometimes the.

• 36:02Anthony Pompliano?

  Trump paid for it. That's what they're going to say. They're 100% going to say, he, he said he's going to give out stimulus, 100%.

• 36:08Speaker 03

  Sometimes having done this a long time, the best thing for the market is just getting through the events and having what was expected. At this point, the Dems are expected to win everything, regardless of what people say. At this point, the market expects the Fed to raise 25. Okay, that's what's expected.

• 36:27Anthony Pompliano?

  Do you think it's going to happen?

• 36:28Speaker 03

  Do I think they'll raise 25?

• 36:29Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 36:31Speaker 03

  I, I don't think it's a 70% chance and.

• 36:34Anthony Pompliano?

  81% on Polymarket as of this morning, 25 basis point hike.

• 36:40Speaker 03

  I, so I'm going to, I'm going to say, I don't think it's going to happen. I'm also going to say, I kind of hope it does happen so we can just get rid of it. Because I think the more likely scenario or the one that's the most bullish for the market. Because if he doesn't go, it just leaves up that he could go forward. If he goes and basically says, okay, we, I did this because the committee is split. And because I felt like the arguments were towards this side of as an insurance. And I believe it's better to do 25 now and get ahead of things if they keep going to open up the possibility. But I don't think we're going to do anymore.

• 37:24Speaker 03

  So basically a dovish hike. That would satisfy the Fed credibility. It might help the long end of the market. It would give people something. I don't think it matters, like I said, I don't know why 25 basis points up or down matters to anyone. As long as earnings are growing and unlike 2022, and every time I see someone in the market do this. 2022 was a very unique situation. We were coming from incredibly low rates. AI was not a part of the equation, so we didn't have this massive capex in earnings boom. Based on that, we were coming out of a recession, obviously, and we had inflation up at 10% or nine and change. Now we've got core inflation at 2.4% in terms of core CPI.

• 38:10Speaker 03

  We already have rates at this level and we were going, the debate wasn't 25, it was, do we go 50, do we go 75? And so we raised rates really quickly in 2022. And then once we slowed down and basically came to the end, that's when you wanted to buy stocks. So I just think the best thing for the market would probably be raising 25 with some kind of dovish message that this was an insurance thing. And since inflation is already on the low side there, but it would not surprise me if behind the scenes, the pressure from the White House and what Donald Trump wants. I think we all make mistakes when we start fading what Besse and Trump are going to do to make sure what they want to have happen, happens.

• 38:51Anthony Pompliano?

  Today's episode is brought to you by Token 2049. The largest conference in crypto is back. Token 2049 will host 25,000 people, 300 speakers and 1,000 plus side events in Singapore on October 7th and 8th at Marina Bay Sands. The speaker list is absolutely stacked. Shane Copeland from Polymarket, Jeff Yon from Hyperliquid, Adina Friedman from NASDAQ, Arthur Hayes, Balaji and Eric Trump. Crypto and traditional finance in the same building, which tells you a lot about where this is going. And the conference runs right into F1 weekend, so the whole thing turns into one giant week. If you're headed to Singapore, use code POMP10 for 10% off your ticket. Token 2049, October 7th and 8th in Singapore. Go check them out in the link in the description. Today's episode is brought to you by Simple Mining.

• 39:35Anthony Pompliano?

  Bitcoin mining has a reputation for being complicated, risky, and hard to evaluate as a real investment. If you're considering mining in 2026, what actually matters isn't headline profitability. It's uptime, repairs, and whether the operation is run like a real business. That's why I've been using Simple Mining. They're based in Cedar Falls, Iowa, and they run a white glove hosting operation where you own your miners. You choose your own pool, and you have Bitcoins sent directly to your wallet. They were featured on the INC 5000 list as the fastest growing company in Iowa with over 40,000 machines under management. What stands out to me is execution. They have the number one rated ASIC repair center, and for the first 12 months, repairs are included. If mining margins get tight, you can pause with no penalties.

• 40:18Anthony Pompliano?

  And if you want to resize or upgrade your fleet, there's a marketplace to resell equipment instead of being stuck. To help people think it through whether mining actually makes sense right now, they put together a short resource called the 2026 Bitcoin Mining Blueprint. It walks through the five mistakes investors make when allocating to mining, and they also explain how to avoid them before deploying capital. If it sounds interesting to you, you can get it for free at simplemining.io/pomp. That's simplemining.io/pomp. Go check it out today and see if you should get into the mining game.

• 40:50Anthony Pompliano?

  If they raise rates, I will understand why. If I'm a betting man, there is a negative percent chance they're cutting or they're raising rates. And it all falls down to, we are going to learn a lesson that we have learned in the past, which is the Fed is not independent.

• 41:05Anthony Pompliano?

  And the same reason that Jerome Powell cut rates right before the election, it's going to be the same reason why I don't think Kevin Warsh is going to raise rates right now. And if you have a job, you got a boss. And if you got a boss, you may say you're independent, but you kind of listen. You may even argue back, but the message kind of gets through. And so, let's see, right? But if they raise rates, I will understand. I think that the data is, you know, kind of iffy, and there probably is going to be some disagreement on, or it has been disagreement at the FOMC. But I do think that the politics of it all is heavily mispriced or misallocated in terms of its importance.

• 41:49Speaker 03

  So let's go, let's go back this way. Cause I, again, let's say there's three possibilities. There's the, the Trump pressure one doesn't raise. Okay. There's the, okay, fine, I'm going to raise, but I'm also going to be dovish. And then there's the third one, which is I'm going to raise and be hawkish.

• 42:07Anthony Pompliano?

  There's a fourth, what if he cuts?

• 42:09Speaker 03

  Okay, let's leave that one alone. We'll put that at zero.

• 42:12Anthony Pompliano?

  Bitcoin to a billion.

• 42:14Speaker 03

  I think if I was going to say, then if those, if we, I think you can take one and two and put them together. Cause I think a hike with a dovish message is the same as, in fact, I actually think it might be better for the market than not hiking. Because to your point, I think the Fed credibility thing will become an issue. And the question is, what does that mean? Now, if the dollar falls off and everyone goes through this, fine, but if rates shoot higher because he doesn't cut, because he doesn't raise, I think that might be a bigger issue. But let's assume that the first two are the, I mean, I'm guessing that those are 90% when combined. I don't think, I don't think raising rates with a hawkish message.

• 42:58Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, I don't think that's.

• 42:59Speaker 03

  I don't think it is either based on the data that we've had over since the last meeting.

• 43:03Anthony Pompliano?

  I don't think it is strategic for them. I don't think the data supports it, nor do I think that's what they want to do.

• 43:08Speaker 03

  Correct.

• 43:08Anthony Pompliano?

  Right? So it's like, you're kind of three strikes, you're out on that. It's an interesting way to think about maybe raising and being dovish is the same as just leaving, but you may get an advantage from it. Let's see. But, you know, I don't know if you got the message, we are the house now.

• 43:26Anthony Pompliano?

  I mean, did you hear his, his commentary this morning?

• 43:30Speaker 03

  No.

• 43:30Anthony Pompliano?

  Or maybe it was late last night, but it was all over X today. He went on Steve Bannon's War Room, of all places. And he said, if the Bloomberg terminal bros are upset with me, then so be it. And he's just like, look, I'm going to do what I'm going to do. I kind of don't care. But whether it is the commentary around the Edmonton submarines, when he was talking about Canada, the Bloomberg terminal bros, I mean, this guy's an all time communicator. And I think that he's been rubbing shoulders with Trump for a while now, because he is definitely finding his, you know, his voice, if you will.

• 44:07Speaker 03

  I mean, I, I lived in the world of Wall Street. I've known Scott Besson a long time, or at least known of him a long time. And I have had many, many people talk to me about him. Same thing with Kevin Warsh. Worked with many people who worked for them, been around them. This is not the Scott Besson that.

• 44:27Anthony Pompliano?

  He was not an elite shit talker forever.

• 44:30Speaker 03

  I mean, I remember before he got, before he got the job, when we were talking about if he got the job, a lot of people were saying, I don't know if he'd be able to handle where Trump's going to go. I think actually.

• 44:41Anthony Pompliano?

  He is incredible.

• 44:42Speaker 03

  He's become in many ways. So that's why I do agree with you that, and it's the reason why I think when people are challenging like rates, it's not that I, 10-year rates to me should be 200 basis points higher. Okay? Now, that is not what the administration wants, and it's not what the Fed wants either. And I say that based on, well, what's the, the point that we'd actually be restrictive on the economy? And I think 10-year rates need to be significantly higher to be restrictive. In the past, 10-year rates were about 200 basis points above nominal GDP. Well, nominal GDP is 6%, so theoretically you should be eight.

• 45:26Speaker 03

  Now, that all changed in 1997. And in 1997, we went below during the Asian financial crisis, and we never got back above except for periods of time when nominal GDP collapsed during recessions. When nominal GDP was stable, 10-year rates were always below it. The reason I say it should be above it, well, we no longer depend, this economy is not dependent on autos and housing. Like, I can't say it loud enough to people. This is not an interest rate sensitive market. If rates at a higher level, everyone that has cash is getting more money in their bank account. And so, we're just at a point of time where transfer payments are huge, meaning the government is handing out money to people that don't have enough money. And then on the other side, the AI trade has nothing to do with 10-year rates at this point.

• 46:11Speaker 03

  And I can't say this loud enough to everyone who listens to doomers and all this stuff. Well, they need to go borrow money. That's ridiculous. I mean, it really is ridiculous.

• 46:22Anthony Pompliano?

  I am the unofficial president of the Scott Besson Fan Club. And, you know, Mr. Treasury Secretary, if you're watching this, talk your shit. I love it. I think it's amazing. I think that he does calm the market compared to, you know, Trump's kind of erratic craziness sometimes. And I actually think that they are a pretty good duo, because it's kind of like carrot and stick to a degree.

• 46:46Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 46:46Anthony Pompliano?

  Although Besson maybe is, you know, he's developing a stick in that he is the house now. But if you go and you look at the other side of this, maybe kind of private sector, you know, man, they really need the entrepreneurs and the AI companies and, you know, the data centers, et cetera, perform. And in a very weird way, there's an unofficial public-private partnership that is attacking the problems of the US economy. And the private sector is doing a damn good job of getting this technology out, creating, you know, jobs and growth and productivity and revenue and earnings growth and like all the things that actually are providing a lot of relief for the Treasury Secretary,

• 47:29Anthony Pompliano?

  the Fed, you know, they would be in a much more dire situation if they did not have the productivity gains and the technology innovation that's happening. And so I think that the macro people really focus on like reading the tea leaves and, you know, kind of playing the, you know, astrology for men game of like, what are they going to say? What are they going to do? But damn, that private sector is rocking. And when you look at it holistically, I don't know, it's pretty hard to be bearish.

• 47:56Speaker 03

  Well, here's, here's the thing you said that I think people should keep in mind. So let's just say you've got Trump and you've got Besson, and we're saying that they're aligned in their thinking at this point. Okay, great. Besson also said this week, the US cannot lose the AI race to China. So when you're betting against AI, or you're saying, I think it's a bubble and go, and like, okay, you're betting against Besson and Trump, who are literally saying, we're going to win the race with China because it's too important. At the same time, every AI person is in direct conversation with the White House.

• 48:33Anthony Pompliano?

  They have rooms at the White House. They literally live at the White House. These dudes are there every week.

• 48:38Speaker 03

  And you can call it what do you want inside him. I really don't care, but why would you bet against this? Like, why would you be fighting against it? Now, there's one other person that matters, Kevin Warsh. They not only chose Kevin Warsh, they, in his testimonies, first of all, he's pro crypto, pro Bitcoin. He also believes in what Greenspan did and believes that AI is a changing technology to where the Fed has to change. So when you put it all together, the people who are bearish, number one, they seem to be betting against AI, and I'm telling you, they don't use it. If you want to be bearish because you think it's going to end the human race, I get it. Like, that is.

• 49:21Anthony Pompliano?

  I don't get that.

• 49:22Speaker 03

  Okay, but that's fine. If you want to do that, the reason I say I get it, they're basing it on the fact that AI is getting too strong. If you want to.

• 49:30Anthony Pompliano?

  They're like, but they're almost bullish on AI. And they're like, they're the most bullish people. It's because they're the ones who think that it's going to be so good that it gets out of control.

• 49:39Speaker 03

  If you want to bet against it because of the arguments of Michael Burry and Jim Chanos from a year ago, a year ago, where they said, this is a bubble because they're saying these chips will have a lifespan of, it's not, there's no way. Well, the H100s, go look at the price that's happened year over year. They're higher than they were back then. So that is like saying that people get younger every year because there's a depreciation on this stuff. So when Gavin Baker, and I'll be covering this, like when Gavin Baker goes in there and says, do you realize that everyone that owns these chips running?

• 50:22Speaker 03

  Basic a data center. The compute prices today that they can sell at those things is higher than they were a year ago. And these chips are costing more. So if you want, so they basically bought food a year ago before an inflationary spike and they're able to market these at higher prices because all the other restaurants right now are charging higher. So if people don't understand what that means, and Gavin Baker talked about it. He believes that the cloud providers, so the guys that are spending all the money and taking all the debt out. He said on Patrick O'Shaughnessy's podcast a month ago, and that was a month ago. H100s are higher than even when they were back then.

• 51:07Speaker 03

  That you'll be shocked at how quickly the cloud providers will start to have profits coming through, not just from new data centers coming out, but from the fact that the compute prices that they can charge are higher and their costs are actually lower on the existing stuff they have. There's so much in this that again, you've got the administration saying, we're not going to let this not happen. You have Warsh, Besse, Trump aligned on the same thing, believing in AI and believing in crypto. And you have market participants that manage lots of money, all the world's money, worried about things in a linear fashion. The reason the market isn't higher is because of the worries people have.

• 51:48Speaker 03

  No question about it. And I want to end with one more thing on this that I started talking to people about this week. The beauty of Bitcoin at this point is this magical number for me of $2 trillion. So Bitcoin's around a $2 trillion asset. You know what else is around the $2 trillion asset?

• 52:06Anthony Pompliano?

  Your bank account?

• 52:08Speaker 03

  SpaceX. Anthropic. And I think after Astro, I think open it, people are probably missing the boat on OpenAI at this point. Let's assume they're all worth $2 trillion. Isn't that an interesting part of where the market is? You have four things. None of them make money. And I throw Bitcoin into it, it doesn't make money. These other three, let's assume they're $2 trillion, they don't make money at this point. They're spending, the two companies that have, you know, their ARR looks great. They're spending a lot more money than their monthly number and SpaceX. It's, it's a thing based on time. That is $8 trillion worth of things that in my opinion are so important to the future.

• 52:51Speaker 03

  And people are still talking about the level of the Fed funds rate and oil. You are not adapting to where the world is today. You are still left in a world of 20 years ago. I won't even say 10 because you have to go back before the iPhone. You have to go back before the iPhone because all of this stuff should have been washed from people. It's the reason why I tell the story all the time. I went to Silicon Valley in 2013 to answer the question. How can Amazon up be up 17,000% since 1997? Yes, I want to say that to everyone. The stock at that time, when I went there was up 17,000%. And it still was really not making money.

• 53:35Speaker 03

  Now it was in 2013, but it wasn't really in 20, in 2008. And I went out there because I'm like, how can this thing always make new highs after it falls down? It's a bubble. It can't possibly be real on the metrics that I know. How can this be real? And I went there and Singularity University changed my life and I never thought of the world that way. You have to go back, these people are telling you the world is going to end. That's the reason they go back to the dot com bubble because it's the only period before technology actually was working. When they can find a time in history where, okay, this is a bubble.

• 54:09Anthony Pompliano?

  I will hope that those people have a great day. I hope that they enjoy themselves. I feel bad for their children's portfolios because it's probably not going to work out for them. Make sure you subscribe to Jordi's YouTube page. Go to Jordi Visser on YouTube. And if you have not yet signed up for Sylvia, go to CFO Sylvia.com. We'd love to have you. You can use the latest, greatest AI technology. It won't kill you. It'll help your portfolio. Go check it out at CFO Sylvia.com. See you guys next time.