The Iceman Cometh: Wim Hof On Elevating Consciousness & Amplifying Human Potential

Today we dive into the deep end of higher consciousness. We challenge the limits of human potential. And we explore the power of the mind to unlock superhuman capabilities. Our instrument for this week's fantastic voyage is Wim Hof — aka The Iceman. Dropping in for his second podcast appearance — his first being RRP 231 from June 2016 — Wim is a Dutch-born world record holder, adventurer, daredevil and human guinea pig best known for his preternatural ability to withstand extreme cold. More significant is Wim's experimentation with specific and teachable breathing techniques. Rooted in the ancient yogic tradition of pranayama and canonized for a modern audience as The Wim Hof Method, Wim asserts that through such breath techniques he can turn up his internal thermostat and activate his sympathetic nervous system — abilities conventionally believed beyond conscious control. Understanding the far-fetched nature of his claims, Wim put his contentions to the test. Among his twenty world-record setting feats of otherworldly insanity, Wim has: * scaled above death zone altitude (22,000 ft) on Mount Everest shirtless adorned in nothing but shorts; * completed a full marathon above the polar circle in Finland barefoot and again shirtless and in shorts; * summited Kilimanjaro in less than 2 days, again in nothing but shorts; * swam a world record 66 meters under a meter of ice above the polar circle; * sat in an ice bath for almost two hours straight; * ran a full marathon in the Namib Desert without water; and * remained asymptomatic after a poisonous E. coli endotoxin injection certain to make any human being very ill All of this is seemingly insane. But Wim declares his feats not only replicable but entirely teachable — a curriculum that holds the potential to unlock a battery of human superpowers that extend well beyond extreme temperature tolerance to metabolic ‘reptilian brain' functions previously thought beyond conscious manipulation. Picking up where we left off in RRP 231, this conversation focuses less on Wim's feats of incredulity and more on the nature of consciousness and the primacy of its elevation. We discuss our current crisis of awareness. The importance of challenging long-held, status quo beliefs. And the warrior's path required to live fully actualized. Wild, calm, powerful and gentle all at the same time, Wim is undoubtedly one of the most compelling and unique people I have ever met — a man who will shock you out of your comfort zone and call into question the countless unnecessary limits we impose upon ourselves daily. This journey begins with the breath. It extends to service, compassion, and gratitude. And it culminates in love. Disclaimer: Never practice breathing exercises before/during any activities where a loss of consciousness may prove life threatening. The breathing methods discussed may have a profound effect and should be practiced exactly as explained and always in a safe environment. Wim strongly advises you to gradually build up your exposure to the cold. Always train without force and listen to your body carefully. If not practiced responsibly, you risk hypothermia or worse. And finally, always consult your doctor first before beginning any exercise program. Enjoy! Rich Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Rich Roll?

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• 0:44Rich Roll?

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• 1:05Speaker 01

  We have become not natural, disconnected, and therefore we get all these problems. If we go back, we will be able to down-regulate what is out of balance, back into balance in the core, and have an absolute sense of control. It is not difficult to learn to command the body, top-down, by your thoughts, and be the master over your own physiology. And with that, bringing happiness, strength, and health, or anything that is out of balance, back into balance. That's the power of our mind. And if you invest into happiness, strength, and health, you are the commander.

• 1:48Speaker 01

  That is step number one: change your paradigm.

• 1:53Rich Roll?

  That's Wim Hof, and this is the Rich Roll Podcast.

• 2:11Rich Roll?

  Hey everybody. How you guys doing? My name is Rich Roll. I am your host. This is my podcast. Welcome upfront. Quick reminder, you still have time to contribute to my 52nd birthday charity water campaign, all designed to bring clean water to those in need. We're closing in on around $40,000 raised to date, which is incredible. Thank you. But still a ways to go to reach my $100,000 goal by year's end. So to learn more and donate, go to mycharitywater.org/richroll. Whatever you feel comfortable contributing is important because every penny counts and thank you. So today, today, we're going to deep dive into the realm of higher consciousness. We're going to challenge long-held belief systems

• 2:54Rich Roll?

  regarding human capability. We're going to explore the incredible power of the mind and how, when properly accessed and controlled and leveraged, this thing that we have in our heads can actually control matters previously thought impossible. And our instrument for this impossible voyage is none other than the legend himself, the Iceman, Wim Hof, in his second appearance on the show, his first being episode 231 back in June of 2016. And this guy is a legit, straight-up, modern-day force of nature, a guy who has really mastered the art of harnessing breath to unlock untapped reservoirs of consciousness to do what most

• 3:37Rich Roll?

  people would imagine is unfathomable. For those unfamiliar, Wim is a Dutch-born world record holder. He is an adventurer. He is a daredevil. He's basically a human guinea pig, best known for this preternatural ability that he has to withstand extreme cold. And his practices, his techniques are really rooted In ancient yogic traditions of breathwork called pranayama, and he has taken these principles, this tradition, and canonized it for a modern audience, wrapped it up in a bow and calls it the Wim Hof method. And by virtue of mastering these techniques, Wim asserts that you can turn your own thermostat up and consciously activate your sympathetic nervous system by using the mind.

• 4:22Rich Roll?

  Among his many world record setting feats of total insanity and incredulousness, Wim has scaled above the Mount Everest death zone, shirtless and in nothing but shorts. He ran a marathon above the polar circle in Finland, barefoot and again shirtless and in nothing but shorts. He swam 66 meters under a meter of ice above the polar circle. And he also, perhaps most amazingly, voluntarily allowed himself to be injected with a poisonous E. coli endotoxin and quite shockingly did not get sick. Now, all of this may sound very far fetched. And yet, Wim is a guy who's adamant that he is nothing special, that his feats are not only replicable,

• 5:07Rich Roll?

  but also very teachable. A curriculum that holds the potential to unlock a wide battery of human superpowers previously thought beyond conscious manipulation. Trust me, I've got way more I want to say about this wild man force of nature before we dig into it. But first.

• 5:33Rich Roll?

  All right, the Iceman. So picking up where we last left off in episode 231, this conversation intentionally focuses a little bit less on Wim's fantastical feats and quite a bit more on the nature of consciousness, this ability we all have to access and leverage areas of the brain previously thought impossible. This ability to actually control our immune response and perhaps even our sympathetic nervous system. We discuss Wim's perspective on addressing and resolving our current crisis of awareness. We talk about our mental health epidemic, but really all told, this is a call to action. It's a call to action to help us better understand

• 6:18Rich Roll?

  and embrace this idea that we all contain the ability to better regulate our bodies and our minds and our spirit, that we can all access. Untapped reservoirs of human potential to not only elevate consciousness, but to live better, live healthier, and more fully actualized. That said, an important disclaimer, please never practice any of the breathing techniques described in this conversation without proper supervision, especially if they involve a swimming pool, a shower, or any water for that matter. Avoid doing them before or during any activities where a loss of consciousness may prove life-threatening, like operating a car. The breathing methods discussed may have a profound effect on you and should be practiced

• 7:03Rich Roll?

  exactly as explained and always in a safe environment. With that out of the way, you can watch our full conversation on YouTube at youtube.com/ritual. And also, I encourage all of you to check out this great standalone instructional video that we created after the podcast that I just published of Wim walking me step by step through a breathing exercise. And if that video or this conversation piques your interest and you want to learn the full Wim Hof method, he's got an awesome 10-week online video course at wimhofmethod.com/elearning/fundamentals. I'll put a link in the show notes up to that.

• 7:45Rich Roll?

  And Wim was also kind enough to provide you guys with a discount code, RICH35, capital R, I-C-H-35, to get 35% off that course, which is amazing. And for clarity and transparency, I do not profit off this in any way. It's just a gift from Wim to you guys. And it's available now for the next seven days, or in other words, through December 2nd. This guy is wild, calm, spiritual, powerful, and gentle all at the same time. He is one of the most unique and compelling people you will ever meet. A guy with one foot firmly on the earth and the other one walking off a cliff to see if he can fly, and oh, fly he does.

• 8:28Rich Roll?

  So ladies and gentlemen, inhale deeply and prepare thyself for the Iceman.

• 8:48Speaker 01

  Rich. As we deal. Rich and cool. Rich and cool. I agree. Rich role. And what kind of role we play. We will find out this day.

• 9:07Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Awesome, man. Welcome back.

• 9:13Speaker 01

  Rich.

• 9:14Rich Roll?

  Starting off with a bang. How you doing, sir?

• 9:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, good.

• 9:18Rich Roll?

  Good, man. Super nice to have you back. I think it was about two years ago when you were here first time.

• 9:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:23Rich Roll?

  So, uh, we're gonna pick it up where we left off.

• 9:26Speaker 01

  So it is.

• 9:27Rich Roll?

  What is going on?

• 9:29Speaker 01

  What is going on? What is coming? As my daughter said this morning, what's up?

• 9:35Rich Roll?

  What is up?

• 9:36Speaker 01

  What is up is going down. And what is up there is like a higher consciousness. Could we say that?

• 9:45Rich Roll?

  I think we can.

• 9:47Speaker 01

  I think the true nature of ours is higher consciousness, as we call it higher consciousness. I say it's just the nature of our spirit to be everywhere in the brain, in the deepest of our physiology, capable to interact with our brain and command our bodies into the subconscious so much that we are able to make the subconscious conscious. And to become capable of going into the brain into the deepest is what I've shown. Since the last time I did some new research,

• 10:30Speaker 01

  not some, real good research, neurological research, wherein they had seventy-four people.

• 10:40Speaker 01

  Talking about the deepest of the brain. The moral of this story now, to begin with is, if you go into the deepest, then you have passed all the layers. That means, not only twenty percent of our brain we can use, I say hundred percent. That's my moral, that's my topic today. And you understand, because you made this switch. I didn't understand who you were, really, just a nice person in front of me. We talk and we go into the depth, like natural. But I didn't know nothing about your history, only my daughter told me this morning.

• 11:17Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 11:17Speaker 01

  I have bloody respect for what you did, man.

• 11:20Rich Roll?

  Oh, thank you, sir.

• 11:21Speaker 01

  Becoming so big in society, being swallowed by society, getting in there and then completely change the paradigm within yourself, becoming the man you are, fighting and working on the good for humanity.

• 11:39Rich Roll?

  Well, I appreciate that. I think that, you know, our stories are very different, but if there's a similar thread, it's that, it's that people look at the things that I've done and they tend to hone in on the athletic accomplishments in the same way people look at your world records or these feats and stunts that you've accomplished. But truly, it's a spiritual journey, my friend.

• 12:05Speaker 01

  Yes, it is.

• 12:06Rich Roll?

  It's about raising your consciousness.

• 12:09Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 12:09Rich Roll?

  That's ultimately the foundation beneath all of this.

• 12:13Speaker 01

  Let me, let me say something in this realm. So, two years ago, we came together and we found out, hey, we got common ground. And depth and I was into the Vedas and Sanskrit and Japanese.

• 12:28Rich Roll?

  You're a yogi, in the ancient tradition of yogis, that's what you are.

• 12:32Speaker 01

  This year, they wanted to give me an award in India for excellence in yoga. I said, man, wait, just wait a little, until next year. Because when we get evidence, for scientific evidence, that we are able to do much more than we think, and we make it common ground, that is excellence in yoga. Yoga is unity, unify.

• 13:00Speaker 01

  And bringing it, uh, and making it accessible for everybody. That's a, uh, that you did what you did, for example, that's great. But what you do for humanity right now, in bringing it out, that is enlightening to, to the soul itself, and I feel invigorated.

• 13:18Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 13:19Speaker 01

  I feel the soul.

• 13:20Rich Roll?

  I think that there's a, there's, there's a little bit of an arms race going on right now. Because we are suffering from a crisis of consciousness. And people like yourself are, are beacons, you're a lighthouse of hope. Uh, awash in a sea of confused people and, um, and a lot of momentum behind systems that are working very actively and diligently to destroy this precious planet, keep us sick and enslaved.

• 13:51Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 13:52Rich Roll?

  And so who is gonna win this arms race?

• 13:54Speaker 01

  Yes, I, I, I, I call it, you know, uh, battling and tackling the real terrorist, which is to me depression, bipolar, anxiety, fear, uh, uh, trauma, PTSD, all those things in the mind, we have no control over the mind. And we are manipulated, I have to say. Uh, this is the way the power system is able to manipulate and have people work for, uh, for people earning 2,000 times more than somebody else. It's the same soul. Uh, doesn't make sense anymore, because all this industry and all, uh, okay, I say stop it. And, uh, uh, uh, now, uh, all this epidemic proportions

• 14:36Speaker 01

  of, uh, uh, mental disorders and not feeling good, uh, how, how is that? So, uh, uh, I did study now, uh, because I can talk like a hippie and say, hey, uh, we gotta change the world, revolution time, and, uh, all love and flower and power.

• 14:54Rich Roll?

  You need science, though.

• 14:56Speaker 01

  Yes, and so I went, uh, uh, they had me test it, how if I would be able to, under severe stress of, say, cold, cold is stress, and it is stress on the cells, biology, in the brain, uh, as in the, uh, as in the body, and we have no control over this stress. And this stress was thus within this experiment wherein they had me sh- sh- shoving in into a brain scan.

• 15:27Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 15:27Speaker 01

  And seventy four people had formally done the same experiment. And they showed, uh, dressed in a perfusion vest, uh, wherein cold water streams in, uh, uh, that the skin temperature is just going down when the cold water comes in.

• 15:48Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 15:48Speaker 01

  And it goes up when it is warm again. Skin temperature, you cannot do anything with your mind. It's just going down, it's going up, going down. This is stress, stress on our bodies, on the cells biology. And we have no way to command to stop it or to stand above it. We have none.

• 16:10Rich Roll?

  This is our sympathetic nervous system just regulating this on our behalf.

• 16:15Speaker 01

  Yes, and imagine wars and traumas and PTSD and, and, and depression and all those things is because of this stress getting in our brains, deregulating our hormonal balance. And thus we lose the good feeling.

• 16:31Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 16:32Speaker 01

  And we have no way to control that. Now, seventy four persons showed all the same graphics. And I showed the same graphics when I did nothing. But the day, day three, I had to show what the ice man is capable of. And I really did not know what to do. Because I don't know what to do. But then I began to think back the way I was in nature on Mount Everest in a, in a wide out, in shorts, tranquil, nice, swift, no paranoia, under the ice, lost away. Eh, no goggles on, couldn't see anything. Where was the hole?

• 17:16Speaker 01

  No panic, no fear, no paranoia.

• 17:19Rich Roll?

  Even when your retina froze.

• 17:21Speaker 01

  Yes. Yeah, yes, and so many more of those situations. I always had the confidence. And eh, I felt this connection within the body. And I remembered that in Detroit, Michigan. The morning I had to go in the brain scan and show eh, a different graphics. Eh, when cold water is coming in and warm water is coming in and cold and warm and cold and warm. Not affecting eh, the skin temperature by command, by just thinking, is that possible? And I thought, yes, of course. I, I, I had by, through intuition, I had this feeling, hey, I'm just gonna do it.

• 18:04Speaker 01

  So went to the university, they got me in the brain scan. I always say, you give the best, you get the best. And I did it. I, I, I made my skin temperature go one degree up. And the cold was coming in and it did not affect eh, my skin temperature. Like eh, twice eh, thirty-five minutes. And eh, then they looked eh, in, inside. By, by the way, the cold water, I, it felt warm.

• 18:32Rich Roll?

  Felt warm to you?

• 18:33Speaker 01

  Very, very warm and ice eh, in, instead of cold, it was ice water coming in. And eh, I made it warm and the professor had really a harder time to put ice cubes in the, in the, in the pump, in the reservoir. To make the water cold because I was warming the water up.

• 18:50Rich Roll?

  Warm in the water.

• 18:50Speaker 01

  Just by thought. I, I was not able to breathe deep or to contract the muscles because eh, you see blurred visions eh, eh, images on the brain scan.

• 19:05Rich Roll?

  So, yeah, so I read about this study, there was an article on Smithsonian. Where they kind of described this and as I understand it, you were in this suit where they could pump water like to cover your skin. It could be cold, it could be warm. And they slid you into an MRI, so they were scanning everything as they were putting this either cold or, or warm water. Um, into this suit and then measuring how you were reacting to this. Is that, that, is that what went down?

• 19:34Speaker 01

  So that, that's what we, and eh, the cold represents stress on the cell's biology.

• 19:41Speaker 01

  And you're normally you have no way to deal with that stress. So you just let it go. Comes in cold and then warm, cold, warm, cold, warm. And we have no way to outbalance it or to transcend the elements uh uh working on the on the body. Mm hmm. Not with the mind. But there I showed to go and transcend it. Transcend the impact on the body. And not only my body became uh uh warm, like really warm there in the in those areas. Uh they looked up in the brain. And what they saw with the seventy four people is that when stress comes in and that's regular stress can be anything, emotional stress, heat,

• 20:25Speaker 01

  uh cold, uh oxidative stress through stress of uh uh daily life and all. It all has an effect on our uh being, on our physiology. And normally we are not able just by thinking to make that stress go away. So this is the way it works in the brain. When stress comes in and the prefrontal cortex, there is a a lot of activation, that's your consciousness. Mm hmm. Your direct here and now consciousness. Oh, it's cold, it's cold. Very activated. Insula, which is activated when in in deep meditation or when you feel really relaxed,

• 21:10Speaker 01

  uh very inactive uh inactive at the moment when there is a a stress going on. Now, that is what normal uh normally works in the graphics. And then they looked uh in my brain and uh they saw that the prefrontal cortex was completely shut down and the insula was really on. Not only so the uh while being under stress, I was in deep meditation. Like uh the result of deep meditation is insular activation. It's like euphoric. And then they saw another thing, and that is actually, uh, yeah, something innate,

• 21:54Speaker 01

  but unknown to science, is the periaqueductal gray hemisphere, which is part of the brainstem, the deepest is between the spine, uh, ganglia and the, and the brain. It's where it all begins, the very primitive brain is, uh, uh, it's where created the opiates, uh, opioids and the cannabinoids, right? And, uh, they, in case of stress, say depression, or danger, or cold, or impact, then you, uh, need opioids and cannabinoids to make the unpleasant feeling and can go very extreme into pain and into feeling bad about yourself.

• 22:38Speaker 01

  And you don't feel the euphoria anymore. But at that moment, we have an innate capacity to, uh, uh, down-regulate the, uh, imbalance and make it right again by, um, uh, the, the, the wrong feeling derived from imbalance, hormonal, becoming depressed, or feeling bad, anxiety, fear, PTSD, trauma, anything in the brain. Now we found the pathway to, uh, to break the cycle of feeling bad, the loop,

• 23:14Speaker 01

  and get euphoric hormones in, uh, cannabinoids, plus a pain cycle we drop through, uh, bringing in opioids. Uh huh. And that is, uh, they say, uh, we found compelling evidence of the key components of the autonomic processes. Autonomic is normally outside of our will. Ability to control. And now we have found them. Eh, autonomic processes in the brain related to mood regulation. They say eh it's a transformational technique that will change mental health care. That's what we want. If we go back to the beginning of eh our conversation.

• 23:57Speaker 01

  This, we want to be spiritual, we want to have depth. Spirituality is presence of your deeper brain eh eh within your willful control. Because everybody wants to be happy, strong and healthy, but nobody knows. And eh, but it is innate to feel that eh that way. Hmm. And we are wrongly schooled in in the primary school eh eh and then the college and and and eh and the universities. And now we show eh eh actually that eh eh everybody has an innate capacity and should not be lost on the way. By cognitive cognitive like the surface of the brain eh input of information eh cognitive information.

• 24:42Speaker 01

  And eh eh doing nothing with the deeper part of the brain. You know what happens? Twenty-five percent more blood flow goes to the surface of the brain chronically. Logically, the rest is just surviving, stand by, but not developing. And that is our just sense of just being. And eh eh eh we talk about five senses, this is the way we have learned to be. But there are three senses more, like the sixth sense, the seventh and the eighth. What's the seventh and the eighth? The seventh is the proprioception, is the eh immune system. The immune system in the depth. And we have shown that already six years ago.

• 25:24Speaker 01

  First time in medical history to go into the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system, activating the innate immune system, not only.

• 25:33Speaker 01

  Even into the bone marrow, which represents the specific immune system, the B cells, T cells, and direct and so on intruder coming in, could be a virus, bacteria.

• 25:47Rich Roll?

  Yeah, this is the study that you this study you're talking about is the one where where you and a cohort of individuals were injected with the E. coli endotoxine.

• 25:56Speaker 01

  E. coli endotoxine.

• 25:57Rich Roll?

  And for people that are new that didn't listen to the first time or aren't familiar with you, like, explain that experiment, because that bends a lot of minds.

• 26:05Speaker 01

  Yes, that actually is so. The seventh neurological network is the pro-preoception. And this is past six cents. We got a absolute possible innate control. We just need to awaken that. It is a network inside, and that makes us able to activate the deepest of the immune system when it's necessary. We as mammals in nature would die if we would be like for days in a bed somewhere, you know. We have this innate control, but because of our behavior, we lost the connection. And this deep connection I took on by E. coli bacteria injected. And

• 26:50Speaker 01

  I showed for the first time to have a control over the sympathetic, over the autonomic nervous system related to the immune system, which goes logically very deep than normally considered. And in medical history, thought of, this is not possible to be done by humans. But this man is he's the Iceman. He does strange things in nature. Yeah, he is an exception that confirms the rule. And I said, no, everybody is able to do this. This is natural. And so I took this cohort of people. And within four days, I had them there. And we were walking in the nature, in shoe woods, in freezing temperatures.

• 27:35Speaker 01

  We danced our socks off on the top. And everybody was able to be there at minus twenty seven, centigrade, which is really freezing cold, far below zero, and we were dancing. There, I recognized, these guys are ready to take on the bacteria, which normally makes people very sick. And they will be able to battle it within a quarter of an hour or something. And four days later, they were in the hospital. And they did their breathing exercises and they got their focus, which is neurology, is power. If I'm able, just by my willful neurology, thinking,

• 28:18Speaker 01

  hey, I don't want to become cold, well, cold is coming on the body and the body becomes warm. That's dealing with stress just by thought. So that power, everybody has, but we never awoken that power, which is, by the way, network number eight, the interoception, interoceptive focus. And for the first time, they saw now in Michigan that I was doing that. They call it the interoceptive focus and top down, which normally they never had seen that. And I tell, but this is natural and everybody has it. It is only through our schooling systems and the way we have our behavior

• 28:59Speaker 01

  that we do no longer understand of the existence of deeper mechanisms, possibly within our control, it's gone. So, but going back to the experiment on the E. coli, they all went into the hospital. They did their breathing, used their neurology, their focus. And within a quarter of hour, hundred percent of these guys, after sixteen thousand and more, hundred and thirty-four people who'd done the same experiment and all became sick, then sadly twelve people randomly chosen of the eighteen I trained in four days,

• 29:40Speaker 01

  they were exposed to the bacteria injected and within a quarter of hour, all had control. And with that, we showed that the specific immune system, innate immune system, autonomic nervous system can be controlled in contrary of what was written in medical history. That means the inflammation in the body, they effectively suppressed. And inflammation is the cause of any disease. Network number seven.

• 30:12Rich Roll?

  Well, a couple of observations here. I mean, the first thing is, the first remarkable thing is that you trained these people for just four days, right?

• 30:22Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 30:22Rich Roll?

  With your techniques. And that's all that was required for them to combat this endotoxin and fend it off.

• 30:30Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 30:31Rich Roll?

  Observation number two, that we have the ability, the power, the acumen to manipulate and control our immune response, which is something that I think, you know, conventional wisdom would say is, uh, is something that is regulated outside of conscious awareness or control. So that's a mind blower. And then, um, the third thing being that, and this goes back to the MRI study with you in this suit, uh, that through certain techniques and, and focus and, and meditation practices,

• 31:14Rich Roll?

  that you could cause or instigate your body to release its own opioids, endogenous opioids and cannabinoids to, what, combat the pain response? Or what exactly is that doing?

• 31:26Speaker 01

  The pain and the feeling. So the four feelings come from cannabinoid. Me coming from Amsterdam, you know?

• 31:33Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 31:34Speaker 01

  It's a cannabinoid.

• 31:36Rich Roll?

  I don't even know that I knew that we had endogenous cannabinoids within our body.

• 31:42Speaker 01

  It's a whole system, endocannabinoid system, and regulates a whole lot of organs within us. All the, say, the cardio pulmonary area and the gastrointestinal area and bladder. So that's the whole torso. And we are able to regulate whatever is out of balance therein. And therefore, we have the opioids. And there is a crisis on opioids right now. Hey, man, we got them ourselves. So no crisis anymore. Just for that, I'm here, just to say that, and we got the proof, so done.

• 32:24Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 32:24Speaker 01

  All right, so. Next podcast.

• 32:28Rich Roll?

  We did it, we're over.

• 32:36Rich Roll?

  You've made some pretty bold claims when it comes to the body's ability to combat disease. Everything from MS to arthritis to diabetes, clinical depression, anxiety, bipolar, and even cancer. And I think a lot of people, when they hear, especially when they hear.

• 32:53Speaker 01

  About cancer, I had to be very.

• 32:57Rich Roll?

  If you say cancer.

• 32:58Speaker 01

  Very diligent, very careful. But now it has been proven that there is an absolute relationship between the immune system and cancer. And now I can say, we and the immune system are very able to activate the deepest of the immune system. And now it has been proven in scientific papers that they have a direct relationship. So if you are able to activate the immune system in the depth, that absolutely has a positive effect on the cancer cells, on the DNA, on the cell division. We are right now, we just came from Baltimore fundraising,

• 33:43Speaker 01

  and one of the top researchers in the world, Elissa Pearl. Professor in San Francisco. Uh, she is leading a new study which we do on the DNA. When the DNA becomes in tranquil or wrong. There and and and the telomeres are being affected. Then a cell division or the wrong one, cancer can happen. Now they see that what we do is after 12 years. This is what they say. After 12 years of DNA research and we know by microscopes. The way they look like the DNA and the telomeres and everything. But we never knew how to get there and to influence it at will. And now we got him.

• 34:27Speaker 01

  So they are into the study. It's been endorsed by the John W. Brick Foundation. Mental health care and 1.2 million, I think. In San Francisco on this method.

• 34:43Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I saw a tweet that you just put out the other day. So you just basically somebody's donating 1.2 million dollars to this.

• 34:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, because it's credible. Because what we show is that we are able to beat inflammation. We are inflammation is the cause for deregulation in the body anyway. And and one of the deregulations is cancer. And I don't say directly now we got a cure for cancer. And he, no, but we got more than probable cause. To make these studies and endorse it and show that nature has the answer. And we have to look into inside of our own inner nature. The neurology of the awareness and our breathing. We have become not natural, disconnected, and therefore we get all these problems.

• 35:32Speaker 01

  If we go back, we will be able. After millions of years of development of our physiology. To down regulate what is out of balance, back into balance in the core. And have a sense, absolute sense of control.

• 35:48Rich Roll?

  I think what's super interesting about you is that what you're preaching and teaching and the impact that you're having, these are very simple techniques.

• 35:59Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 35:59Rich Roll?

  And we're going to get into what they are specifically in a minute. But essentially, it's a call to return to our natural state.

• 36:06Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 36:06Rich Roll?

  To live more primal lives, to be more connected to nature, to connect with the breath and to what it means to, you know, truly, historically, live in the world in the most ancient sense of what it means to be human.

• 36:20Speaker 01

  The tribe.

• 36:22Rich Roll?

  And that message is budding up against the intellectualization of science. And I think it's, it's difficult to digest for, you know, somebody who's in the medical profession, who's like, listen, you know, this guy's out here ranting and raving, and yeah, he's some kind of crazy outlier, but like, let's, let's like, you know, let's stick to the microscope, because here's what we have, and we're developing these drugs, and this is truly the path forward. So, these are two very different approaches, one that resides very much in the mind, and yours, which is based on experience and things like the heart and love and spiritual connection,

• 37:06Rich Roll?

  which are ephemeral concepts that a lot of people have a hard time, you know, sort of wrapping their heads around and embracing. So this is, this is another one of the arms races that we're experiencing at the moment.

• 37:17Speaker 01

  Exactly, exactly. And I say, we have to get back to the, say, the tribe feeling. People who are lonely, for example, their white blood cells get deteriorated. And people who are like, in a tribe, the family, the structure, it's perfectly outbalanced through nature, through millions of years. We got disconnected within the, within the family, and now all the world is connected. We are one tribe now. And, you know, the tribe before had no hospitals, had no pharmacies, had no industrialization

• 38:00Speaker 01

  or whatever, they could cope with any impact. Therefore, we had the elders. And elders are the storytellers. They know about the experience. What do we do with the elders? We put them in elder homes. Apathically looking at the television screen and nothing else. So that's what they found out also in Pennsylvania, Rosito, when there was a cardiovascular epidemic going on in America in the 20s, except for that region. Why was that? Finally, they became to know because granddad lives with the taking care of the grandchildren.

• 38:45Speaker 01

  And the people, they meet each other in the street and they talk to each other. And they wish each other well and touch each other oxytocin. And if their love gets into the body, into the biochemistry, then the good things happen neurologically, igniting the right hormones in the body. This is the way we were built. And what do we do now? We became individual. We tense up, the elbow work. I'm better than you. I go faster. I want more. And going into six cars is better than five cars. And all that nonsense is going.

• 39:28Speaker 01

  And I say, what we are unconditionally already present within us is the ability to become happy, strong and healthy. And when we are able to bring back that natural knowledge with science, you don't need two cars because you're already happy. You're with your family and the way nature amended to be. And there you really become powerful. Now it is time to use our neurology, our consciousness, to tap into the deepest part of that part of the brain, which we lost connection with. And we got it. I can tell you, we got it. We're gonna tackle this real terrorist of ours, which is the same for everybody.

• 40:13Speaker 01

  Depression, bad feelings, anxiety, fear, PTSD, trauma, bipolar, anything you can come up with. We found a way to tackle that with euphoric hormones and pain-killing hormones. It's all there. And we got it inside and we are built to be able to use it anytime. And with that, we get away from this fear-based thinking to control. But otherwise, I don't have the things to compensate my bad feeling or my insecurity, my fear-based thinking. It's gone. And you live with everybody and you wish well to everybody.

• 40:56Speaker 01

  None sentimental, because your energy is right. It emanates from the core instead of from the brain.

• 41:03Rich Roll?

  That's very threatening to the matrix.

• 41:06Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 41:06Rich Roll?

  You know, I mean, it is, it is an inside job. It requires you to look within. And that's very challenging to almost everybody who has grown up in our modern, Western, industrialized society, where from day one, we're born and bred to, you know, chase the gold chain and, you know, achieve and succeed and all these things that you just said. And that implicit, within that, promise is, of course, happiness. And most people are chasing that to their deathbed, never quite achieving that which they seek the most, which is a sense of fulfillment and purpose,

• 41:51Rich Roll?

  contentment, connection, all of these things. All of the market forces, the economic systems, the social systems in which we are reared and habitate today are pushing us away from these very things that ultimately, going back all the way to the wisdom of the ancients, are the true holders of this promise of contentment. And if we can find a way to have the wherewithal to invest in that interior journey and engage with our interior selves in that way, we can unlock this universe of potential that we all are walking around with.

• 42:31Speaker 01

  Exactly, the power of the mind, I call it. We are not built to, why should we have 100% brain when we only are able to control 20%? Doesn't make sense. The sense is, eh, eh, eh, eh, the twenty percent is because most of the blood flow is always on the surface, because of our thinking ways, the neurological pathways, we have learned to develop, yes. So, eh, eh, I've now found a way to get into the deepest of the brain, and with that, unlocking the possible power of the mind to become just happy, strong and healthy. Not a circus act, I'm not into, eh, look at me, or what I can do, eh, blah, blah, no,

• 43:14Speaker 01

  I just discover what innately, eh, we are capacitated with everybody. And there is the unconditional love, eh, or, eh, eh, yes, the unconditional love, composed by the guarantee to activate anything that makes you happy, strong and healthy. Happiness is, eh, hormones, or fluoric hormones, eh, the strength is the metabolic processes in the, eh, in the cell, and we have proven that, that we are able to, eh, create more ATP. Eh, that doesn't matter how it works, strength is there, is energy, and we are able to guarantee flow therein.

• 43:54Speaker 01

  Eh, we showed that, and then, eh, eh, eh, the last one is the health, is the going into the deepest, eh, layers of the immune system. It's all there, it was always there, and it is connected to the brain, and now we found the pathways, and, eh, and it's up for awakening, and with that comes the, eh, the, the beginnings of the power of the mind for everybody. And there is the spiritual, eh, journey, because it is without thoughts, it's feelings, it's deep, it's, it's like drugs, but then your own. So we got this T-shirt, eh, get high on your own supply. Yeah.

• 44:35Speaker 01

  And eh, eh, it's kind of nice, but eh, first, let us clean up, eh, clean up eh, eh, the place, eh, eh, and, and get into, eh, eh, learning people to control and outbalance their depression, bipolar, anxiety, fear, that it is no longer needed, because twenty percent will become hundred percent. Control in the brain.

• 44:57Rich Roll?

  So let's talk about what that protocol is. Like, how do we begin this process of engaging the mind in a new way?

• 45:06Speaker 01

  Yes, so there I I came up with these things because I didn't find it in notebooks. So I went into nature. And in nature, you have no words. It doesn't, it's not written when I'm in a whiteout.

• 45:24Speaker 01

  But I feel suddenly, instead of thought of paranoid, because an anxiety and fear, because there's a white eye, I'm in my shorts, and it's less than half the oxygen present, and nobody's around, and I can't see anything but white eyes and rocks. And there I am for hours. Then feeling that you are not in anxiety, but okay, you feel confident. Nice. And surprisingly, you're looking at yourself, hey, it's okay. This power is part of the power of the mind, which is able, through intuition, orientation,

• 46:06Speaker 01

  deeper than our normal senses, the sixth sense, not the sick sense, the sixth sense.

• 46:15Rich Roll?

  I gotcha.

• 46:15Speaker 01

  It's almost sick in this society, because there is no confidence. Confidence is part of the sixth sense. Confidence comes when you have control within your own brain.

• 46:27Speaker 01

  Past the normal sensorical perception, you got images and feelings. Sixth sense is able to go into the future, because it has no time-space perception. It is different, but it is there. And you learned, when it's simply there, not because your logic says so, no, not because it is there, and you trust it, then you feel confident. And it makes the right calculations. And this is what happened there. I felt confident. I began to walk and my orientation, GPS, anything is great working.

• 47:12Speaker 01

  Even in a whiteout, three hours later, I arrived in an advanced base camp and was received by Tibetans. And they must have seen a crazy pilgrim, a white man coming out of a whiteout. But they gave me tea and butter.

• 47:28Rich Roll?

  When, so where, where and when was this?

• 47:31Speaker 01

  Two thousand seven on Everest.

• 47:32Rich Roll?

  Oh, this is your Everest. Okay, yeah.

• 47:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, part of the Everest.

• 47:35Rich Roll?

  I gotcha. Okay. So, yeah, that's when you, you, you made it all the way up to the death zone with basically just in shorts.

• 47:44Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 47:44Rich Roll?

  No shirt, right? And then you had a foot injury or something like that that prevented you from going all the way to the top.

• 47:49Speaker 01

  Thing is, I, I, I learned to, uh, uh, to get into different consciousness altogether uh, uh, by going into nature because it wasn't in the books what I tried to find. I, I want to find the soul. I want to find enlightenment. And the world has proven to be a place where it is not. And where they ignore the soul's presence. It's all about profits and power and tension and stress and dominating and exploiting and polluting. That, that, that is what is going on. This big monster, I, I, I think we are like dragon slayers. We go for the right tools and then go ahead.

• 48:34Speaker 01

  We go past our fear and turn the wheel and, uh, uh, make effective tools and bring it out to the world that there is light in the world, that there is a soul in the world. And that we have a capacity to get rid of this manipulative control and to find absolute, uh, a, a, the deepest sense of control over ourselves. Because we own really our own brain. We are the owners of our happiness, strength and health. Dave Asprey asked me, um, in his podcast, uh, Wim, what is enlightenment? And please tell it in what somebody else do and say it in one sentence.

• 49:18Speaker 01

  I said, just be happy, strong and healthy and the rest is bullshit. The soul, it's time for the soul to be here and guaranteed. And a- a- as I say, past any politics and bollocks and power and this and culture and tradition and religion, the mother in Baghdad is the same as in uh New York. They just wanna guarantee for their children happiness, strength and health. And now, because nobody was listening, everybody indulging into religion and differences instead of the uh the eagle side of our all, we just wanna love our kids, wasn't it?

• 49:59Speaker 01

  So, tha- that's what we wanna and tha- that's what we need to stand up and say, go through science, no speculation anymore. The time had you had uh uh to speculate and to uh show you differences with all the respect, it only kills, it gives a bad quality of life, no uh health, a depression and uh uh uh people earning uh irrational amounts of money and the other one, not, uh I see people homeless here and I think, hey man, it's still on. So, until it is not solved, that the unconditional love, which everybody uh should owe, like

• 50:41Speaker 01

  their uh uh and owning their own mind, we have to keep on, Rich, and uh uh uh and and stand up, because fuck the past. What I all did and made our genetic way of thinking i- i- in the through epigenetics becomes genetics, and now we are stuck in the marsh and we gotta uh uh solve it, yes, that's what we do. We stand up and we say no to war, no to disease, no to depression, we say yes to happiness, strength and health, and we prove it through science. And that's, makes us man.

• 51:18Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's powerful. Uh, we're in strange times right now. We are connected in ways that we never have been historically, but that connection is digital, it's, it's temporal, it's not real. Meanwhile, we're more divided than ever, certainly politically. Um, we have uh retreated to our respective silos and tribes and we love to shoot arrows at each other.

• 51:45Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 51:46Rich Roll?

  And, you know, signal to our respective tribe members that we're a member in good standing, well... Spending a lot of energy distinguishing ourselves from the other, from them, from the bad guy, whoever that is. And this is reaching peak levels that I've never seen in my lifetime. And this call to return to our natural state, this idea that the mother in New York and the mother in Baghdad are truly one. How do we return back to that understanding and that connection that can truly unify us and supersede and heal this divide that we're seeing right now? That is, that is perhaps our biggest disease.

• 52:31Rich Roll?

  Yes, heart disease, America's number one killer, obesity rates through the roof, depression, the world's number one disability, PTSD, diabetes, cancer, all of these things are killing people at an alarming rate while we're blindly decimating the planet and with our hands, you know, not on the steering wheel here. Like, this is a crisis of epic species-ending proportions. Like, we can't fuck around here.

• 52:58Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 52:59Rich Roll?

  And we're running out of time. So, the call to return to this primal state of breath, of connection with each other and with nature, as simple and as basic as that sounds, it's still very threatening to the person who is very much a consumer in this society and programmed to behave in a certain way. You're asking them to do some very simple things, but it's interpreted as almost a threat or a challenge to a way of life that is so distinct from everything that they know and have been taught.

• 53:37Speaker 01

  Hmm, yes. If you learn a monkey to be a lion for all the time, it doesn't behave like a monkey anymore. We have lost from our true nature.

• 53:51Speaker 01

  And with that, with the capacities of our true nature, which is there to learn, to have a control over the full brain, I mean, hundred percent. Because it's the mind, it's the seed of the spirit of the soul. And the soul is the purpose. And we think it is just something randomly chosen by religion, the Catholics and the Protestants and the Islamic and the Zarathustras or whatever. All these, it's just a difference. It's a time-space ego, which doesn't have the real ability or capacity to go into the deeper part of the brain

• 54:36Speaker 01

  and experience the unifying principle, experience, which everybody has. Spirituality is equal to everybody. It has no label. Only the differences where we came from, the time-space perception and ego related to that. Those are the first baby steps. We learn how to conquer the power of the mind. So, and then from there, we learn from time-space perception to go into timelessness. And everything, the soul's presence, the soul now is confined, is imprisoned. And what it shows is disease. And in all kinds of ways, both mental and physical.

• 55:18Speaker 01

  It's because it's not there and it only shows, hey, that's why you get sick. You can't cover it up with pills and medicines and kill the messengers all the time, not go to the core. How far, because the power and money goes that way and that's why it's prolonged and keeping on. And because people are ignorant, they lost hope. And the people, if you really give them the alternative, through.

• 55:47Speaker 01

  Say science, then they are able to reactivate that deep sense of hope within them. Now this society, you come in and you say, "Yeah, you've got to be the best in the world, you've got to position yourself, become this and that and that." Those are symptomatic tools you get because they are, everybody's in fear. And nobody knows that if you learn to control the power of the mind, you don't need fear because you had a beautiful mind, is very able to go past the time-space, what is happening in the future, resolving things from the past, that's why we are here.

• 56:27Speaker 01

  And there is this soul, this inexplicable soul presence, that's why we are alive. And we get to know it and to be that flower and then share it with everybody. And that's where we go. So, here I am, talking about it and saying, "Okay, what is the real way?" Okay, I showed as the first one now, again, in the brain scans. Like seven years ago, I showed it, the autonomic nervous system, innate immune system, endocrine system, hormonal system, all can be very deeply influenced. In four days with these guys up the mountain, we danced our socks off,

• 57:09Speaker 01

  while being in extremes of nature because they had the power of the mind, present like it is innately there for everybody. But we always are in this fear way, comfort zone behavior, confined the way we have learned and this is the way we need to be. No, get out, get into your true nature and you don't need only hope over there. You feel the power of your own mind, being able to deal with anything that is out there. Thus, absence of fear is a logical thing happening there.

• 57:44Rich Roll?

  So, if you speak to experienced meditators, people have been meditating for decades, they will share with you experiences that they have had, glimpses of the beyond or a sense of expanded consciousness and awareness and connection and unity. But for the most part, they will say, "These experiences are few and far between and they're fleeting." The more you practice meditation, the more you can... Drop in with greater facility and it becomes easier, just like anything that you practice, but this is a lifetime commitment. And you're here saying, in four days, I can do, I can basically

• 58:29Speaker 01

  Now, within an hour.

• 58:30Rich Roll?

  Yeah, within an hour. Okay, within an hour.

• 58:33Speaker 01

  An hour. Give me an hour, man.

• 58:34Rich Roll?

  What is it? Like, I, we talked about this last time, but the cold exposure and these feats that you've done, those are the things that create the clickbait titles, and that's what people want to talk about, what they're interested in. But my impression, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is that this is much more about the breath work and the way that the breath and these meditative practices that you teach are portals or ways of garnering control over these traditionally thought uncontrollable aspects of our awareness and our lizard brain.

• 59:13Speaker 01

  Yes. It is absolutely rich. Good resume. Nice. It's like a diving board. I can use it.

• 59:23Rich Roll?

  All right, we'll dive in now.

• 59:24Speaker 01

  I made some salt, man.

• 59:26Rich Roll?

  Go on your next rant monologue. I'm here to receive.

• 59:29Speaker 01

  Right on, right on. So, the thing is mindfulness, for example, and seasoned practitioners of mindfulness have been studied very well. A lot of research has been done, like hundreds and hundreds of papers. And it all shows that they are able to tap in a deeper part of the brain, which is learning how to decrease blood flow in the surface and get it deeper. And thus, they become activated, those deeper parts of the brain, and they feel like nice, good. And sometimes, they peak.

• 1:00:07Speaker 01

  And they get even deeper. And that deepest part is the brain stem. And uh uh uh but that's rare. And and now they uh the professors uh after uh looking in the brain scans and uh looking in my brain. And uh pardon my joke, but they found compelling evidence that I possess brain activity in the brain scan. That's a joke. Uh the thing is. Your brain is actually working. Yeah. It is. It's not new anymore. It's not new anymore. Okay. Uh second hand. Um thing is, uh they said uh the the the part of the brain you made act uh ro- robustly activate.

• 1:00:50Speaker 01

  We never see that in even with seasoned practitioners in uh mindfulness. In different areas of the brain. Different deeper areas of the brain. And uh uh especially under stress. And uh stress is the killer in suicide and people are not able to tap into the depth of the brain no more. And now we found a a neurological pathway into the deepest part of the brain. And everybody is able to uh learn to activate that. And if you just repetitiously go a couple of times, then it becomes stronger. This neurological pathway does the control from the surface of the brain into the deepest part of the brain.

• 1:01:33Speaker 01

  And if you are able to go actively into the deepest part of the brain, you are able to go in all the ways in between. That means all the parts of the brain. In Hannover, we showed uh that the breathing technique uh uh uh is making hundred percent activity of the uh of the brain. Suddenly, the neurology, the electricity is activated everywhere in the brain. It's a disco. And the dance is only beginning with uh when you are able to bring uh twenty-five percent dominant uh blood flow only in the surface of the brain, but now everywhere.

• 1:02:16Speaker 01

  Then the activation of the powers related to those parts of the brain are within our control and will.

• 1:02:31Rich Roll?

  How much of that becomes under the aegis of conscious control versus the activation then setting in motion some kind of autonomous processes that stimulate the immune response in the best and most healthy way? Like, what is the awareness level in terms of what's going on? Like, are you consciously, like, when you're in the MRI and they're shooting the cold water and you're, you can't really do the breath work, but you're, I presume, entering into a meditative state? Like, how much are you, is it, is it like an effort-based thing? Or is it something that because of your

• 1:03:12Rich Roll?

  history of doing this, that your body just suddenly knows what to do? Like, I'm trying to understand, like, for somebody who's listening to this, who's coming in brand new and doesn't really understand what we're talking about here, like, break this down into little chunks so people can really get a sense of what the experience is like.

• 1:03:34Speaker 01

  I thought it was going to be very difficult in the brain scan to show active, say, commanding from the brain, the body,

• 1:03:45Speaker 01

  without moving, without muscular activity, without just lying there, just a thought, here comes the cold. You normally cannot do anything just by thought related to the cold coming on the body, making the body colder, and you cannot do with your thoughts, nothing. And I thought it was going to be very difficult, but no, I learned that in nature in numerous kinds of situations, for example, climbing without gear, steep rocks, getting cramps, and think it away. Or being in a, in a cylinder full of ice after an hour, I got always this problem with the kidneys.

• 1:04:28Speaker 01

  They become too cold. I can think and warm up my body from the inside out just by thinking. Or uh, uh, uh, uh, put a hand in front of an infrared camera. And within a, a minute, I can make it ten, twelve degrees going up. Just your hand? Yeah, just my hand. And are you thinking that? Like, are you? Yeah, just do it. Right? Uh huh. And, uh, uh, uh, uh, so there I was in the brain scan and I thought, I'm just gonna give it my shot. And what I did, because there's a terrible noise going on, they asked me to meditate. A brain scan, they said. Right, MRI machine, yeah.

• 1:05:12Speaker 01

  Meditate on that. No, I, I, I, I, I just began to.

• 1:05:21Speaker 01

  Just to have a reference, point of reference of my own brain being there. And what happened is I felt no cold. It became warm. I could even wander off with my thoughts to the place and feel the warmth and. Yeah, I, I, it is not difficult to learn to command the body top down by your thoughts. And be the master over your own physiology. And with that, bringing happiness, strength and health, or anything that is out of balance, back into balance. That's the power of our mind. And I learned it in nature.

• 1:06:02Speaker 01

  And I say, you don't need to climb Mount Everest or go into ice water, all those things. They are just a mirror that it works when you go into regular practice therein. About the power of the mind, the neurological pathways. We invest in unhappiness. We invest in the wrong things. We don't want to be not happy, but we're not being happy is a result of the oxidative stress within us, going through the blood-brain barrier and taking away the balance between the serotonin and dopamine and become depressed. We don't know how to deal with that.

• 1:06:46Speaker 01

  But now we found, top-down, we are the commanders over our hormonal system. When anything is out of balance, and once again, you don't need to go into the extremes. I did that. I was the pioneer. I was the scout. And I say, "The enemy is over there. That's the way to tackle it." And here, we make it simple. On paper, this is the map, biohacking map. And this is what you gotta do, instead of going frontal into those enemy lines and losing a whole lot of your life and time and miserable misery, going into misery. No, there's the space. And if you just do that, you're becoming control of yourself. And can it be so easy?

• 1:07:31Speaker 01

  It is simplified. It's there. And if you invest into happiness, strength, and health, you are the commander. That is step number one. Change your paradigm.

• 1:07:45Rich Roll?

  What's interesting is that because you have done all of these crazy things, swimming 66 meters under the ice cap and climbing Everest, and the intention behind all of those is to draw awareness to the power of the human mind, to overcome seemingly insurmountable obstacles. But the crazier the feat, the more... Easy it becomes for people to just say you're a crazy outlier, that this is...

• 1:08:15Speaker 01

  I'm still a crazy outlier, by the way.

• 1:08:17Rich Roll?

  But what I love about you is, is every time that argument comes up, you deflect it and say, "No, this is like, I do this to show what's possible. I can teach this. This is replicable. And put me in the MRI. Let's do all these studies." Like you've become this guinea pig. I mean, we've only talked about two of the many, many studies that you've done that time and time again are showing things that previously we thought to be impossible. And you're getting... What's amazing is you've created this groundswell movement. I mean, I don't know, five or six years ago, nobody ever heard of you. Now, you're veering on becoming a household name. Everybody knows who you are.

• 1:09:00Rich Roll?

  The Iceman cometh. And you're teaching these practices. You've created this scalable family business where you're now teaching practitioners to teach your methods. And this is creating this spider web that is expanding exponentially with every day. And it's really cool to see. And you're getting coverage, not just in VICE, but in medical journals. And people are paying attention to what you're doing. But what I see between the lines is still a reluctance of the traditional medical community to really embrace or pay attention to what you're doing. There was a Rolling Stone article that said something along the lines of like, "Look, he's done all this stuff and everyone's verifying it and he's done these studies."

• 1:09:45Rich Roll?

  And still, he's kind of being ignored.

• 1:09:48Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:09:48Rich Roll?

  Right?

• 1:09:49Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:09:50Rich Roll?

  Walk me through that.

• 1:09:51Speaker 01

  Yes. Ignorance. Ignorance it's called. And that's the basic of fear-based thinking genetically already for hundreds and possibly thousands of years. It's a power system. The power system is still on. People just want more and more, a couple of people, and they never are satisfied. It's a mind so much in control over others, but not over themselves.

• 1:10:21Speaker 01

  And so, uh, if they, you know, people in power are not necessarily more happy than somebody else. It's just, uh, they are the crazy outliers, not me. I just want to be in nature. I want to be with my mother, with my father, with my kids, and all together, happy, strong, and healthy. I think I'm a crazy outlier, like, I'm crazy about my wife and my life. And with that comes the whole family, and I'm crazy about it, fucking bloody crazy, and I will stay being crazy with that. Those are the core values of happiness, strength, and health, and they are present.

• 1:11:06Speaker 01

  So, I think that's just, and what I see in the world, hey, man, anybody can see it, doesn't make sense, but it's there. It's the power system, it's the mainframe, it's the, uh, the matrix, and I think we are little now, but we are becoming bigger and bigger, we are beginning to settle into the hope and trust and confidence of the people that we actually are innately built to be happy, strong, and healthy unconditionally. So, that's why I go through these signs, and let us face, hey, you wanna battle inflammation and chronic pain?

• 1:11:49Speaker 01

  Millions, hundreds of millions are suffering from, uh, autoimmune diseases and pain, chronic pain, and chronic diseases, uh, and we found an answer, easy answer to tackle that considerably for everybody, so you better think twice before you say no to this. Then, another thing is the mental disorders and the feeling, the connection with your own hormonal system and get high on your own supply, looks like, hey, this guy is happy from Amsterdam, no, I go through neuroscience and show for the first time in medical history

• 1:12:32Speaker 01

  that we have an innate capacity to get neurological control over our hormonal system and become happy, strong, and healthy. It's there. So mental disorders, goodbye. Inflammation-causing diseases, goodbye. By the way, killer number one, cardiovascular-related diseases. A cold shower a day keeps the doctor away. How simple is it? Contraction and dilatation of veins. Three times the world is within us. And you train it if you just step a little bit out of your comfort zone behavior and take the cold shower after the hot one.

• 1:13:16Speaker 01

  Then you tackle this serial killer. The cardiovascular-related disease makes more casualties than any war. Nobody is saying too much about it. It's a silent serial killer. And you are able to tackle it through a cold shower. And you own neurology. I'm gonna take the cold shower on a regular basis and train vascular fitness. My vascular system and thus it becomes flexible and not full of sclerosis, calcification, which is stopping the blood flow of going through. And you get a lot more energy. Just take a cold shower.

• 1:13:54Rich Roll?

  Physiologically, what is going on? It's anti-inflammatory, it's alkalizing your blood. What else is happening?

• 1:14:03Speaker 01

  It's absolutely, yeah, we did the studies. It's alkalizing the blood. We suffer from low acidification.

• 1:14:17Rich Roll?

  Acidification.

• 1:14:18Speaker 01

  Yes, acidification, acidification. We suffer from that. That's where.

• 1:14:23Rich Roll?

  Chronic acidosis.

• 1:14:26Speaker 01

  Acidosis. That gets into the lymphatic system and in due time, it comes back into the system, creating all these defects called autoimmune diseases. Those are not my words, biochemical professors, they say. And they said, we have to congratulate our colleagues in the University of Nijmegen to have found.

• 1:14:46Rich Roll?

  University of what?

• 1:14:47Speaker 01

  Of Nijmegen. Nijmegen is a place, is a city.

• 1:14:52Rich Roll?

  Okay.

• 1:14:52Speaker 01

  Is a city in the Netherlands. And there we found, by putting, getting the endotoxin inside, we found a way to battle with the cause of autoimmune diseases, which is inflammation, inflammatory markers, cytokines.

• 1:15:10Speaker 01

  And we bring them down within a quarter of an hour. And a part of that is alkalizing the blood. But not only in the blood, also in the lymphatic system. And the lymphatic system has a storage capacity, the garbage. But you need to empty it. And if you don't, then at a certain moment, it comes back into the system after years and years. And nobody knows how it really works. And now we found that we are able to tap into the lymphatic system and cleanse the blood or the liquids.

• 1:15:45Rich Roll?

  And how much of this is the breath work versus the cold exposure? Is it the combination of these two together? Like, how does that work?

• 1:15:55Speaker 01

  So the ice is, ice is nice and worse if you learn how to deal with that. Gradual colder exposure. But a cold shower does the trick. Cold shower is really.

• 1:16:07Rich Roll?

  How cold does it have to be?

• 1:16:09Speaker 01

  The way a cold shower is happening right over here. That's cold enough. The thermogenesis, the vascular fitness, the stimulation begins. And you will get more energy because we got millions of primitive muscles within the vascular system and they all become strong. So they help the blood flow and the stress of too much heartbeat goes down like twenty minutes, twenty-four hours a day. That means a lot of stress caused by too high a heart rate is gonna be down. Hey, solution. How simple? Just take the cold shower. Do not even think about it, just do it.

• 1:16:54Speaker 01

  You get a lot more energy because all these little muscles begin to help the blood flow. Nutrients, the minerals, the oxygen. It brings it all to the cells. And in the cells, we got the magic Andrea. They get the right stuff in the right speed and you get a lot of energy inside. And the heart rate goes twenty, twenty-five beats a minute, twenty-four hours a day down.

• 1:17:20Speaker 01

  And there is their peace. And while you are in action eh, you become eh so much more in command of this chemistry. Is when the head suddenly, the neurotransmitters of our thoughts, are able to command what is going on inside. That is number eight, network number eight. The interception, which I showed, that was thinking, cold water comes. Skin temperature, I don't want it to go down. It didn't go down. Like two times thirty-five minutes, cold, warm, cold, warm. I just stayed over there.

• 1:17:58Rich Roll?

  Stayed completely flat, neutral.

• 1:18:00Speaker 01

  Yes, eh eh eh even eh one degree up. So that is how, we have an ability to activate our body to be protected.

• 1:18:11Rich Roll?

  Skin temperature or core temperature?

• 1:18:13Speaker 01

  Eh, skin temperature, both. Core temperature, skin temperature. And the DNA now, this what they saw with eh in San Francisco. They say eh eh wha- what this is, is eh like hormatic stress. It's a positive stress that stimulates. It's not undergoing stress. It's you go to the stress. You are the one to activate that stress. You got it in control. And with that, you activate the body to go to its utmost functionality. And there you get a grip on. And with that comes the innate capacity to become happy, strong and healthy. And out balance what is eh out of eh out of eh balance. And eh it's all there.

• 1:18:59Rich Roll?

  If you could design, like what do we still need to study and understand? Like if you could design the ultimate study to better understand the phenomenon that you're speaking about. What would that look like? Like where where what do we need to do next to really dive deeper into what exactly is going on?

• 1:19:17Speaker 01

  I I'm eh I always say, yeah eh eh the the origin of what eh eh set out for, my drive is because of the soul, this in the expla- eh oh, everybody is talking about the soul, nobody knows what eh eh goddammit, wh- what it is. And I say, this time we're gonna bring the soul where it belongs. With all the core values it belongs to, eh which is happiness, strength and health. It's pure goodness. It's inside of us. It's powerful, it's beautiful, it's called love.

• 1:19:49Speaker 01

  And this love for life and everybody needs to come back. And because nobody was listening, everybody making war. And, "Oh, God is the love," and they make war between each other, they kill each other, and this and that, "You were wrong, we are right." And, "Hey, no, no, no, no." The real experience of spirituality is my aim. I call it, it's the signs of the soul. But before that happens, we need to show that we are able to tackle seemingly unsolvable matters like depression, bipolar, inflammation, chronic pain, anxiety, fear, PTSD, trauma, those, the real terrorists, let's tackle that first.

• 1:20:33Speaker 01

  And then get into the right condition of the DNA, the deepest control over the deepest of the brain, and the deepest of the physiology up till the lymphatic. When everything is being able willfully to be reached and influenced in, nothing remains. The soul is there.

• 1:20:54Rich Roll?

  And it can be revealed, it can reveal itself to you.

• 1:20:58Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:20:59Rich Roll?

  People are scared of love, though.

• 1:21:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, they love, the greatest power of the universe, yeah, yeah, yeah. You want to be able to, with a thousand push-ups and enormous Schwarzenegger kind of muscles, and know a whole lot and all that, it's quite fear-based. Love, the family, going back there and recognizing that the beauty is all there and embrace it, and being able to be proud, like a Messiah warrior with the lions over there and the little lambs over here and in between, like consciousness, that consciousness.

• 1:21:42Speaker 01

  Of course, you should be feared, because it is the greatest power of the universe. But it's inside, it's tangible, we make it accessible and clear and effective.

• 1:21:56Rich Roll?

  In the last two years since you were here, I'm sure you've worked with hundreds, if not thousands, of people. And now you have all these instructors out there conducting workshops and spreading this message and working with people. What are some of the case studies, like transformations that people have undergone?

• 1:22:17Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:22:18Rich Roll?

  That you've worked with?

• 1:22:19Speaker 01

  Yes. We got so many thousands of people.

• 1:22:25Speaker 01

  Let me explain-

• 1:22:25Rich Roll?

  How many people are out there doing this right now?

• 1:22:27Speaker 01

  Oh, I think millions. I think millions. And it's on, but I think it's still... The whole world should know that there is a non-dogmatic choice to be happy, strong and healthy. Evidence-based. That is what I want. There is no dogma around this. It's there. I'm just saying, "Look, look at this." You don't have to choose your happiness, strength and health, but the ability to become that is there. So, we got about 40,000 and more testimonials of people who are completely healed of their disease.

• 1:23:07Speaker 01

  A variety of diseases, as much as diseases exist on this planet. So, it gives absolutely cause to study more. Because I think this natural key we found is unlimited. It's only inaugurating a new dimension through a different paradigm into the power of our mind within our control. The soul itself is knocking at our door. So, I was training the Navy SEALs in Pearl Harbor.

• 1:23:48Speaker 01

  I went and drove up there and there was the bar and I was thinking, what am I gonna teach these guys? Uh, day two, it was. Because I always say things. And then, uh, just before the bar, I got a mail of a, uh, a GP, a practitioner, a, a, a, a woman, a doctor, uh, uh, uh, giving me this mail and I, I read it out loud, uh, uh, uh, not, uh, out there, just for myself. Uh, uh, uh, hello, I'm Jan. Last year, I jumped from the third story down, cause I had it with the pain. I woke up in the hospital, my brother told me about you and what you do, about the autonomous,

• 1:24:32Speaker 01

  this and that and that. And now I just wake up every day, I'm happy and I'm strong, I'm confident, I, I love you. GP Jan so and so. Then I went to the Navy SEALs and I said, let's, uh, win this fucking war. This war on anxiety and bring real peace there in, cause this is the war really going on in all the world. Uh, uh, the Navy SEALs, sleep deprivation, a lot of stress, a lot is there going, and now, uh, uh, doing the breathing there and convincing them that they are in command,

• 1:25:12Speaker 01

  not the general of their own, that they are there and you have to sometimes just shut, shut, shut up and get in, become the commander consciously and start with your own beautiful, uh, mind and the power of your mind and to, yeah, give some water to your garden, then the flowers will come.

• 1:25:33Rich Roll?

  Well, I'm sure they loved it because they're already, I mean, that's a population of people who are very familiar with discipline and are always trying to, you know, sort of control their reactions and, you know, they have to be dialed in on such a higher level than the average human being. They, I would think that this is like, this is like, uh, the advanced placement course in, in how to... You know, comport themselves under high-stress situations to function at their peak.

• 1:26:00Speaker 01

  Yes, and for that, the cold is a great mirror. Because the cold, and especially ice-cold water, is really stressful on the cells, biology, and our mind, absolutely. So, the cold we use as a mirror to develop more skills of the mind and refine them and develop them more and tune them better, and that's it. And then the cold is of no use anymore, but a cold shower a day keeps the doctor away, keeps on going. It's nice. You don't have to take care of your body if you just go into the cold shower, because it will take care of your body.

• 1:26:43Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Have you or any of these studies looked at the impact of these techniques on addiction?

• 1:26:53Speaker 01

  Yes, there are a lot, a lot of people who fall in an abyss when they are no longer, say, addicted, because the substance is gone, and the reactions and actions caused by the substance, they are not being triggered. So, the breathing helps greatly to fill up that gap, so, yes.

• 1:27:18Rich Roll?

  And breathe, like, if you had to, if somebody had to choose between the breath work or the cold, or you probably don't even want to make that decision.

• 1:27:25Speaker 01

  No, no, I do, I do. I say the breathing. The way I learned about the breathing is because of the cold. Because what do you do when you go into cold? That's what you do. You learn to go more into profound breathing, because then you are able to change the chemistry, which is opposing the impact coming in. For that, you need to change the chemistry, it's done by deep breathing. Because we wear all the clothes, that's why we become shallow in our breathing. So, I say to people, mind about this, that you are building up a deficit of the right

• 1:28:06Speaker 01

  chemistry in your body, just deep breathing and conscious breathing during the day. Sometimes, yes, it's all for free, it's out there, and you just do. Consciously, consciously means the neurology, it goes paired with the chemistry. You learn to really tune in with the right chemistry in your body, making it alkaline to the level of the lymphatic system, the garbage getting out and cleansing, it's all there.

• 1:28:37Rich Roll?

  And when you're, so walk me through like a day in your life, you're traveling all the time, do you set aside times during the day to do a diligent practice, or is this something that you're just persistently doing throughout the day, like constantly reminding yourself and bringing your awareness back to the breath?

• 1:28:56Speaker 01

  Automatically in this conversation, sometimes just take a deep breath in, and that's it.

• 1:29:06Rich Roll?

  Only when you let me talk, that you can do that?

• 1:29:08Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:29:09Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:29:10Speaker 01

  And, yeah, cold showers, I love to take them, and I'm not exaggerating, I'm not, you know, going into more, more, more puritan kind of training, yogic training and abstinence, no, I take it all, I like my beer in the afternoon.

• 1:29:29Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:30Speaker 01

  To drink a nice little beer, hey, I like it, I like it, I'm not a ascetic yogi or any, I can be the ascetic yogi, but that's enough, I don't need to be, I enjoy life.

• 1:29:44Rich Roll?

  No, you do, I get it, you live in the world, you're a man of the, you're not, you're not an ascetic, you're not gonna be living in the caves in the Himalayas, but when you hear those stories of those yogis who meditate for months on end, or become breatharians, are those apocryphal, do you believe in that? Have you met any of these people?

• 1:30:03Speaker 01

  I train, I train the breatharians, for example. They have sometimes a loss of energy, and in the cold, you need energy, so I train them in the cold, and through the breath work. And the neurology of their brain, which is also conditioned within their confines. They are able to gain a whole lot more power over themselves, over the energetic metabolic processes in their own cell level and all that, yes. They feel better afterwards. So yogis, yogis should get out of their caves and begin to teach what they have found instead of being their egotistic little shitty selves.

• 1:30:47Speaker 01

  Oh, I'm so beautiful. I'm not only, only, no, no, no, no, no. India right now is calling for me also. So it's like the wise people do not longer only come from the, from the east. It's now here, right here, I look at one. And me, we bring consciousness and we bring love and understanding to the people. That makes us man, that makes us universal, that makes us eternal.

• 1:31:19Rich Roll?

  One of the things I love about your, your story is that it's a very human story. It's almost this Joseph Campbell Warriors path that you've been on that was really birthed out of, out of grief and pain with the passing of your wife.

• 1:31:35Speaker 01

  Oh, yes.

• 1:31:36Rich Roll?

  That kind of led you into this world of self-discovery. And there's a beautiful full circle aspect to this because you're teaching people how to overcome their depression and their grief and their pain and their suicidal ideation.

• 1:31:53Speaker 01

  Because this is very, very personal for you. Lots, lots would normally would suicide, now no longer because of this. And exactly what you point out is the full circle. I began in grief. My wife jumped from an eight-story down. I was left alone with four kids, no money. There I was, I had to survive. My kids made me survive, nature healed me. And then I began to see what was the effective mode of it all. And then I was able to transmit this to other people. And then I began, and I had the chance to show it within scientific laboratory settings, experiments, research.

• 1:32:37Speaker 01

  I fully was on. And now, we're the full circulus. If I would have known what I know now, I would have saved, be able to save my own wife. So for those who are in these situations, where they are in full despair of having their beloveds, in depression, in bipolar, in a complete out of control brain. We got now, and endorsed by science, a way to tap into the brain and make the change. You love your beloveds?

• 1:33:17Speaker 01

  Do not only love, bring non-sentimental functionality, affectivity toward them. And get it done.

• 1:33:25Rich Roll?

  It's beautiful, man. What do you think people most misunderstand about you?

• 1:33:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, I look like a crazy motherfucker, but I am a crazy motherfucker. The thing is, I'm gonna also change the world. And that is normally, ah, he is a crazy motherfucker. Yes, I am, but I'm changing the world. So do understand that.

• 1:33:52Rich Roll?

  Alright, so we gotta wrap this up here in a minute, but I want to,

• 1:34:00Rich Roll?

  I want to know what you mean when you say, "Nature can be merciless but righteous," which is something you say often.

• 1:34:08Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. Yeah, if you go, if you find yourself on a, climbing without gear.

• 1:34:16Speaker 01

  There is no mercy there. You have to think you've had grams away, otherwise you die. You you become blocked or when you are under the ice. You gotta find a way out of there and not go into panic and paranoia. Because it kills you. It gets you out of control. Uh, uh, or uh, uh, uh, there, uh, in, on Mount Everest in, in a whiteout. You gotta find a way, otherwise you freeze to death. And many other situations have led to me, yeah, nature is merciless. But at that moment, you always have a, a, a gap wherein you can find a way out.

• 1:35:00Speaker 01

  Trust, deeply trust and be confident that you don't need fear. Because you have the control over your mind, even in the greatest of despair and darkest of your moments, to get out. Because the light is the love and the love is the universe and we got him.

• 1:35:21Rich Roll?

  The mind truly is the final frontier.

• 1:35:23Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:35:24Rich Roll?

  Yes, and you are a, you are an astronaut into the deep recesses of the uncharted, uh, geography of consciousness and the brain. And I commend you for that, man. This is, this is, uh, this is worthy work for your life. And you're doing, um, much good for humanity and it's greatly appreciated. What's cool is that it's really been done outside of any mainstream media. I mean, you had, you did the Vice documentary and you get covered in various places. But it's YouTube and podcasts and, and really this new form of media that, um, is really helping to spread your word. And I think it speaks to the power of how, uh, of, of how storytelling has shifted

• 1:36:09Rich Roll?

  in the way that we receive it as a culture. And I wish you well.

• 1:36:14Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:36:15Rich Roll?

  I want to, um, After this, will you go out and teach me like a quick breath practice?

• 1:36:21Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:36:22Rich Roll?

  That we can share with people.

• 1:36:23Speaker 01

  Nice.

• 1:36:23Rich Roll?

  So for people that are listening to this, we'll put that up on YouTube and everybody can get a little taste of Wim and the work that he does. I know you guys are on tour right now and you're teaching workshops. Do you want to let people know where they can find out about that and come and see you and take one of these workshops?

• 1:36:45Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:36:45Rich Roll?

  And blow their minds.

• 1:36:46Speaker 01

  Thank you. Thank you for the space. It's the Wim Hof, that's my name, method. It wasn't me who made that up. It was somebody else, but nice. WimHofMethod.com. We will be in New York, Miami next month, and San Francisco, Los Angeles. Right now, we go to Vancouver. And just be there, because when I talk to a crowd, to people, then it's always new. I just relate to what I feel. I trust my feeling and to come up with the right answers, with the right understanding, clarity.

• 1:37:31Speaker 01

  And that's because we are the tribe. We are like a tribe. So we have to come up with the existent blockages of energy at that moment. And for that, a live experience is a live experience. That is nice. That's good. No, one thing. We found the gateway into the deepest of the brain. And the power of the mind is the future. And we are in control of that. And with that comes the absolute guarantee of happiness, strength, and health. I would not want anything more. Love.

• 1:38:09Rich Roll?

  For you and for me and for everybody, my friend.

• 1:38:12Speaker 01

  Yes, sir.

• 1:38:13Rich Roll?

  Cool. You should be doing, how come you don't have like a TV show? Are you doing a documentary? Like, do you have any of that kind of thing in the works?

• 1:38:20Speaker 01

  Uh, yes, I do. Uh, uh, maybe my daughter knows. What do you say? Are the documentaries coming?

• 1:38:27Speaker 02

  Well, there are several documentaries coming, but there's no TV show.

• 1:38:30Rich Roll?

  No TV show? Alright, so we have.

• 1:38:32Speaker 01

  Would be great, a TV show. Why don't we talk about?

• 1:38:37Rich Roll?

  You want to do that? I'll do a TV show with you.

• 1:38:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:40Rich Roll?

  Alright.

• 1:38:41Speaker 01

  Become rich and play your role.

• 1:38:44Rich Roll?

  There you go. Alright.

• 1:38:45Speaker 01

  Stay cool.

• 1:38:46Rich Roll?

  Come back and talk to me again. Much love, brother.

• 1:38:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, much love.

• 1:38:50Rich Roll?

  Peace. Balance consciousness.

• 1:38:52Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:38:53Rich Roll?

  All good.

• 1:38:53Speaker 01

  It's all there. Yep.

• 1:38:55Rich Roll?

  Alright, buddy.

• 1:39:07Rich Roll?

  What a gem. What a true gift to humanity that Wim Hof is. Pretty sure they broke the mold with that guy. And I hope he bent your mind a little bit and helped you gain a greater perspective on what's possible in this human experiment we are all collectively conducting. Quick reminder that you can watch this conversation on YouTube at youtube.com/ritual as well as a separate standalone instructional video there of Wim in all his beautiful glory, walking me step by step through his breathing technique. In addition, if this conversation or that video piques your interest and you want to learn the full Wim Hof method, he has an awesome 10-week online video course at wimhofmethod.com/elearning/fundamentals.

• 1:39:52Rich Roll?

  I'll put a link in the show notes up to that. And Wim was kind enough to provide you guys with a discount code, rich35, capital R, lowercase i c h, 35, to get 35% off that course. I do not profit off of that in any way. It's just a gift from him to you. And it's available now for the next seven days through December 2nd. For even more on Wim, check the show notes on the episode page at ritual.com. And let him know how this one landed for you by sharing your thoughts on this conversation with him directly @iceman_hoff on both Twitter and Instagram. If you're looking for additional nutritional guidance, check out our meal planner at

• 1:40:33Rich Roll?

  meals.richroll.com. There you will find thousands of plant-based recipes, all customized based on your personal preferences, with unlimited grocery lists and grocery delivery in most US cities, with international delivery rolling out as we speak. Amazing customer support, really proud of this program, and it's all available to you for just $1.90 a week when you sign up for a year. So again, go to meals.richroll.com or click on Meal Planner on the top menu on my website. If you would like to support the work we do here on the podcast, there's a couple ways to do just that. Tell your friends about your favorite episode, simple enough. Share the show on social media, subscribe on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, on YouTube, on Google Podcasts. Leave a review on Apple Podcasts,

• 1:41:17Rich Roll?

  and you can also support the show on Patreon at ritual.com/donate. I want to thank everybody who helped put on today's production. It was a big team effort. Jason Camiolo for audio engineering, production, show notes. Blake Curtis and Margot Lubin for the video podcast and for their beautiful graphics. Reese Robinson also helped with the video podcast, as well as shooting and editing the WIM instructional video and taking amazing portraits. DK David Kahn for advertising relationships, and theme music, as always, by Analemma. Thanks for the love, you guys. See you back here next week with a powerful exchange with Jimmy Chan and Chai Vazahr-Hely. They are

• 1:41:57Rich Roll?

  the dynamic filmmaking duo behind the incredible Alex Honnold documentary Free Solo, which you should all go see immediately if you haven't already, and it's a damn good conversation. So until then, breathe, motherfuckers. Peace. Plants.