103: Human Will is a Super Power When Called Upon. "Recollections of Rifleman Harris"

0:00:00 - Opening 0:07:13 - "Recollections of Rifleman Harris" 1:28:23 - Final thoughts and take-aways. 1:42:00 - Support: JockoStore http://www.jockostore.com stuff, Super Krill Oil and Joint Warfare http://originmaine.com/origin-labs/jocko/, Origin Brand Apparel and Jocko Gi http://www.originmaine.com, withJocko White Tea http://www.jockotea.com, Onnit Fitness stuff, http://www.onnit.com/jocko and Psychological Warfare (on iTunes) https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/psychological-warfare/id1183222322. Extreme Ownership (book) http://amzn.to/2jonHTx, The Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual. http://amzn.to/2szgaEj 2:04:08 - Closing gratitude. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is Jocko Podcast, number 103, with Echo Charles and me, Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo.

• 0:08Speaker 01

  Good evening.

• 0:10Jocko Willink?

  Whilst lying at Winchester, young as I was in the profession, I was picked out amongst others to perform a piece of duty that, for many years afterwards, remained deeply impressed upon my mind and gave me the first impression of the stern duties of a soldier's life.

• 0:30Jocko Willink?

  A private of the 70th Regiment had deserted from that corps and afterwards enlisted into several other regiments. Indeed, I was told at the time that 16 different times he had received the bounty and then stolen off. Being however, caught at last, he was brought to trial at Portsmouth and sentenced by general court martial to be shot.

• 0:59Jocko Willink?

  As the execution would be a good hint to us young'uns, there were four lads picked out of our corps to assist in this piece of duty, myself being one of the number chosen.

• 1:12Jocko Willink?

  Besides these men, four soldiers from three other regiments were ordered on the firing party, making 16 at all.

• 1:22Jocko Willink?

  The place of execution was ports downhill, and the different regiments assembled must have composed a force of about 15,000 men, having been assembled from the Isle of Wight, from Chisester, Gosport, and other places.

• 1:41Jocko Willink?

  The sight was very imposing and appeared to make a deep impression on all there.

• 1:49Jocko Willink?

  As for myself, I felt that I would have given a good round sum, had I possessed it, to have been in any other situation rather than the one which I now found myself. And when I looked into the faces of my companions, I saw by the pallor and anxiety depicted in each countenance, the reflection of my own feelings.

• 2:17Jocko Willink?

  When all was ready, we were moved to the front and the culprit was brought out. He made a short speech to the parade acknowledging the justice of his sentence and that drinking and evil company had brought the punishment upon him.

• 2:36Jocko Willink?

  He behaved himself firmly and well and did not seem to flinch at all.

• 2:43Jocko Willink?

  After being blindfolded, he was desired to kneel down behind a coffin which was placed on the ground and the drum major of the depot giving us an expressive glance, we immediately commenced to loading.

• 3:02Jocko Willink?

  This was done in the deepest silence and the next moment, we were primed and ready.

• 3:09Jocko Willink?

  There was then a dreadful pause for a few moments and the drum major, again looking towards us, gave us the signal agreed upon before, a flourish of his cane. And we leveled and fired.

• 3:27Jocko Willink?

  We had been previously strictly enjoined to be steady and take good aim and the poor fellow pierced by several balls fell heavily upon his back.

• 3:39Jocko Willink?

  As he lay with his arms pinioned to his sides, I observed that his hands waved for a few moments like the fins on a fish when in the agonies of death.

• 3:52Jocko Willink?

  The drum major also observed the movement and making another signal, four of our party immediately stepped up to the post rate body and placing the muzzles of their pieces to the head, fired and put him out of his misery.

• 4:10Jocko Willink?

  The different regiments then fell back by companies and the word being given to march passed in slow time. When each company came in line with the body, the word was given to mark time and then eyes left in order that we all might observe the terrible example.

• 4:32Jocko Willink?

  We then moved onwards and marched from the ground to our different quarters.

• 4:42Jocko Willink?

  And that is from a book called Recollections of Rifleman Harris, who was an enlisted soldier for the British Army during the Napoleonic Wars. And that was his welcome to the Army. He'd been in for about three weeks of service when he had to stand and execute a fellow soldier for basically being drunk and disorderly, not doing what he was supposed to do. Essentially, he was being executed for being a human being.

• 5:25Jocko Willink?

  And that was the introduction to military service for Rifleman Harris. Rifleman Harris's full name was Benjamin Randall Harris. He enlisted in 1803. He fought all over Europe in the Peninsular War, which posed Bourbon, Spain, the Kingdom of Portugal and the British Empire against Napoleon's French Empire and Baudappartist Spain, and also the Duchy of Warsaw. And this is a war where they have daggers and swords and bayonets and mounted cavalry charges.

• 6:08Jocko Willink?

  They have cannons and they used a lot of muzzle-loading rifles, which a skilled rifleman could load and fire about three times per minute, accurate, out to about 200 yards. Very different from the weapons that we have now, which can fire three rounds in a second

• 6:34Jocko Willink?

  and are very accurate, out to 800 yards, 1,000 yards, and some sniper weapons way further than that.

• 6:44Jocko Willink?

  But even though these weapons are different from the weapons we see in modern warfare,

• 6:51Jocko Willink?

  as always, in the end, it is men.

• 6:57Jocko Willink?

  It is human beings on the battlefield, bleeding, sweating, starving, suffering, killing, and being killed.

• 7:13Jocko Willink?

  Let's find out a little bit more about Rifleman Harris.

• 7:20Jocko Willink?

  Going back to the book.

• 7:24Jocko Willink?

  "My father was a shepherd, and I was a sheep-boy from my earliest youth. Indeed, as soon as almost I could run, I began helping my father to look after the sheep on the downs of Blanford in Dorsetshire, where I was born.

• 7:38Jocko Willink?

  Whilst I continued to tend the flocks and herds under my charge, and occasionally in the long winter nights, I learned the art of making shoes. I grew a hardy little chap, and was one fine day in the year of 1802, drawn as a soldier for the Army of Reserve. Thus, without troubling myself much about the change which was about to take place in the quiet of my routine days, I was drafted into the 66th Regiment of Foot. Bid good-bye to my shepherd companions, and was obliged to leave my father without an assistant to collect his flocks, just as he was beginning more than ever to require one.

• 8:21Jocko Willink?

  Nay, indeed, I may say to want tending and looking after himself, for old age and infirmity were coming on him. His hair was growing white, as the sleet of our downs, and his countenance becoming as furrowed as the ploughed fields around. However, as I had no choice in the matter, it was quite as well that I did not grieve over my fate. My father tried hard to buy me off, and would have persuaded the Sergeant of the 66th that I was of no use as a soldier, from having maimed my right hand by breaking the forefinger when I was a child." The sergeant, however, said I was just the sort of little chap he wanted.

• 9:06Jocko Willink?

  And off he went, carrying me amongst a batch of recruits he had collected away with him.

• 9:15Jocko Willink?

  Sheep herder.

• 9:17Jocko Willink?

  Dad's getting old, army comes and gets you. That's the way it works. England, eighteen oh two.

• 9:31Jocko Willink?

  Now, he travels around a little bit. And eventually ends up in Dublin. And here we go back to the book, whilst in Dublin, I one day saw a corps of the ninety fifth rifles and fell so in love with their smart dashing and devil may care appearance that nothing would serve me until I was a rifleman myself. So on arriving at Castle one day and falling in with the recruiting party of that regiment, I volunteered into the second battalion. This recruiting party were all Irishmen. And I'd and had been sent over from England to collect amongst others, men from the Irish militia and were just about to return to England. I think they were as reckless and devil may care a set of men I had ever been beheld,

• 10:17Jocko Willink?

  either before or since. So these these riflemen, I I would say, from what I read about them, they're they're almost like a special ops unit. And one big difference is they're wearing, instead of wearing red jackets, like the the Brits would wear at this time, they wore green. So they were a little bit different. And they had more accurate rifles and they would fight, they would do what they called skirmishing, which is is fundamentally cover and move. They'd shoot and they'd maneuver and they'd they'd. They'd act like little special operations troops out there and of course it's interesting

• 10:57Jocko Willink?

  to me and when I hear this guy talking about the first time he saw someone that looked a little bit like a special operations troop, he said, he actually says, "I fell in love with it." You know, that's, that's very much how I felt as I was growing up. The more I saw, you know, the special ops. And he actually didn't even need to be special ops. For me, it was just someone in the military. But then he was already in the military. So now he's looking for the next thing. What's the next thing gonna be? And here he ends up as, as a rifleman. So he's now a rifleman. He joins, he moves over to their regiment. And here we go back to the book. "The next day, we marched for Ashford in Kent, where I joined the 95th

• 11:41Jocko Willink?

  Rifles. And about six months after my joining, four companies of the 2nd Battalion were ordered on the expedition to Denmark. We embarked at Deal and sailing for hostile shores, landed on a little place called, I think, Scarlet Island. The expedition consisted of about 30,000 men. And at the moment of our getting on shore, the whole force set up one simultaneous and tremendous cheer, a sound I cannot describe. It seemed so inspiring. This indeed was the first time of my hearing the style in which our men give tongue when they get near the enemy. Though afterwards, my ears became pretty well accustomed to such sounds. As soon as we

• 12:26Jocko Willink?

  got on shore, the rifles were pushed, pushed forward." And he says the rifles, he's talking about his guys. "The rifles were pushed forward as the advance, in chain order, through some thick woods of fir. And when we had cleared these woods and approached Copenhagen, sentries were posted on the roads and openings leading toward the town in order to intercept all comers and prevent all supplies. Such posts were occupied for about three days and nights, whilst the town was being fired upon by our shipping." I rather think this was the first time of the Congreve rockets being brought into play, and they rushed through the air in the dark. They appeared so like so many fiery serpents, creating, I should think, terrible dismay among the besieged. The Congreve rockets,

• 13:12Jocko Willink?

  they basically look like giant bottle rockets in a way, and they got, at this time, they were getting their range out to fifteen hundred, two thousand meters. So it was a pretty crazy weapon. And I can tell you, rockets in this day and age have become fairly accurate, but in those days, probably about as accurate as a bottle rocket, is my guess.

• 13:37Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, as the main army came up, we advanced and got as near under the walls of the place as we could without being endangered by the fire from our own shipping. So what's happening right there is cover and move. The shipping is bombarding and these guys are advancing as close as they can, where they're not going to get killed by their own, by their own fire from the ships. "We now received orders ourselves to commence firing, and the rattling of the guns I shall not easily forget. I felt so much exhilarated that I could hardly keep back, and was checked by the commander of the company, who called me by my name to keep my place. About this time, my front rank man, a tall fellow named Jack Johnson, showed a disposition as though the firing had an

• 14:21Jocko Willink?

  effect on him, the reverse of what it had had on many others of the company. For he seemed inclined to hang back, and once or twice turned round in my face. I was a rear rank man, importing my piece. In the excitement of the moment, I swore that if he did not keep his ground, I would shoot him dead on the spot. So that he found it, he would go on, so that he found it would be quite as dangerous for him to return as to go on. I feel sorry to record the want of courage of this man, but I do so with the less pain it gives me. The opportunity of saying that during my many years of arduous service is the only instance I remember of a British soldier endeavoring to hold back

• 15:06Jocko Willink?

  when his comrades were moving forward."

• 15:10Jocko Willink?

  Indeed, Johnson was never held again in estimation among the rifle corps. For the story got wind that I had threatened to shoot him for cowardice in the field. And Lieutenant Cox mentioned to the Colonel that he'd overheard my doing so. And such was the contempt the man was held in by the rifles that he was soon afterwards removed.

• 15:34Jocko Willink?

  There you go. First time under fire. It's. It's interesting how Rifleman Harris, first time under fire, he wants to get after it. He is ready to charge and only one guy out of their whole crew is looking like he's gonna hold back. And they talk about reputation here. And that's definitely something that is when you get to the SEAL teams as you're a new guy, someone tells you. They'll say, hey, your reputation is everything and it's totally true. And it's the same in any military organization. What your reputation is. Cause.

• 16:10Jocko Willink?

  Cause in the military, you think ranks all important, right?

• 16:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:13Jocko Willink?

  But but the reality is there's something that completely trumps rank and that's reputation.

• 16:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:17Jocko Willink?

  And if you're and if you're. I mean, I always talk about the fact that relationships are more important than chain of command. But. You're not gonna have a good relationship with people if you don't have a good reputation, it's not happening.

• 16:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 16:30Jocko Willink?

  So.

• 16:30Speaker 01

  Makes sense.

• 16:31Jocko Willink?

  Same thing back in 1803.

• 16:35Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book whilst in Denmark, we led a tolerably active life, the rifles being continually on the alert. Ordered hither today and countermanded the next. Occasionally also. We had some pleasant adventures among the blue eyed Danish lasses. For the rifles were always terrible fellows in that way.

• 17:02Jocko Willink?

  I think that doesn't need too much explanation.

• 17:07Jocko Willink?

  They.

• 17:10Jocko Willink?

  I'll say this, as I always say, I have to fast forward through this book. I'm not reading the entire book, even though the entire book is awesome. In this point, this point here, they're embarking for Portugal. We have another. Another campaign to go on. Back to the book. I wish I could picture the splendid sight of the shipping in the downs at the time we embarked with about 20,000 men. Those were times which are so, which the soldiers of our own more peaceable days have little conception of. So this book was written before World War One and. And really, this was the, the last big war is the wars that he went through, the Napoleonic wars. So he's kinda,

• 17:53Jocko Willink?

  he's kinda saying, you don't even know what this is like anymore. You don't know what it's like. You don't know the, the, the soldiers of our own more peaceable days have little conception of what it's like to embark 20,000 troops to get ready and go get some.

• 18:09Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book. We sailed majestically out of the Cove of Cork for Hostel Shore, where we were safely arrived and disembarked at Mondago Bay. The rifles were first out of the vessels, for we were indeed always in front of the advance and always in the rear in retreat. Like the Kentish men of old, we claim the post of honor in the field. I tried to figure out what that. Kentish men, Kent is obviously a place and, and as far, the best I could. Figure out. Was that the people in Kent stood up hardcore against the Norman invasion. I think that's what that references to. I'm sure somebody will correct me and I hope somebody does.

• 18:55Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book. Being immediately pushed forward up the country and advance the main body, many of us in this hot climate very soon began to find out the misery of the frightful load we were condemned to march and fight under with a burning sun above our heads and our feet sinking every step into the hot sand. The weight of, the weight I myself toiled under was tremendous. And I often wonder at the strength I possessed at this period that which enabled me to endure it. For indeed, I'm convinced that many of our infantry sank and died under the weight of their knapsacks alone. For my own part, being a handicraft, handicraft, I marched under the weight sufficient to impede the free motions of a donkey.

• 19:39Jocko Willink?

  For besides my well-filled kit, there was the great coat rolled on its top, my blanket and camp kettle, my haversack stuffed full of leather for repairing the men's shoes, together with a hammer and other tools.

• 19:52Jocko Willink?

  Ship biscuit and beef for three days. I also carried my canteen filled with water, my hatchet and rifle, and eighty rounds of ball cartridge in my pouch. This last, except the beef and biscuit, being the best thing I owned, and which I always gave the enemy the benefit of when the opportunity offered.

• 20:15Jocko Willink?

  It's, it's interesting, he, he knew how to work on shoes. And so he carries stuff to repair shoes in the field. Think about that, that's just a lost art, isn't it? But think about where you are in the field when you have to march fifteen miles a day and you have no shoes. If there's someone that can fix your shoes, that's, that's a godsend.

• 20:37Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, the next day we again advanced and being in a state of the utmost anxiety to come up along the French, neither the heat of the burning sun, long miles, or heavy knapsacks were able to diminish our ardor. Indeed, I often look back with wonder at the lighthearted style, the jolity, and the reckless indifference with which men who were so destined in short time to fall hurried onwards toward the field of strife. Seemingly without a thought of anything but the sheer love of meeting the foe and the excitement of battle.

• 21:14Jocko Willink?

  He wrote this book

• 21:17Jocko Willink?

  20 something years after this happened, after this experience. I want to say he wrote it in 1930 something, 1938 maybe is when it came out. And

• 21:33Jocko Willink?

  you can see that, so, so my point in saying that is that looking back, he knows because he's, he's, he's, he's gonna go through hell. He's gonna go through hardcore combat, but even, even knowing how horrible combat is, he still looks back and is, is amazed at how they were ready to go. Going back to the book, "The 29th Regiment received so terrible a fire that I saw the right wing almost annihilated, and the Colonel, I think his name was Lennox, lay sprawling amongst the rest. We had caught ourselves in it pretty handsomely, for there was no cover for us, and we were rather too near. The living skirmishers were laying beside heaps of their own dead,

• 22:19Jocko Willink?

  but still we had our own till the battalion regiments come up. Fire and retire is a very good sound, but the rifles were not over fond of such notes. We never performed that maneuver, except when it was made pretty plain to us that it was quite necessary. The 29th, however, had got their fairing here at this time, and the shock of that fire seemed to stagger the whole line and make them recoil. At the moment, a little confusion appeared in the ranks, I thought. Lord Hill was near at hand and saw it, and I observed him come galloping up. He put himself at the head of the regiment and restored them to order in a moment. There's some leadership, just full on leadership in action.

• 23:01Jocko Willink?

  So, there's also fire and retire, what that means is cover and move. So, you have some people shooting and some people falling back. That's how they retreat, and they're, they use that whenever they have to retreat, you'll hear that. And, and I don't know if I did this, made this clear enough, but it's a bugle. It's a bugle signal, so the bugle would play some certain number of notes or some pattern of notes and, and everyone would know, okay, that means fire and retire. So now we're, now we get that broad, that broad.

• 23:33Jocko Willink?

  The broad plan out to everyone at once, which is instead of advancing, which is what we were doing, now we're gonna, we're gonna retreat.

• 23:40Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 23:40Jocko Willink?

  And as soon as you get everyone that information, now little elements can start to make it happen. That's decentralized command, but you have to have good communications in order for that to work. And what you need to communicate is the broad plan.

• 23:51Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 23:51Jocko Willink?

  And that's what they get done with a nice little bugle signal. Back to the book, pouring a regular and sharp fire upon the enemy, he galled them in return and remaining with the 29th until he brought them to the charge, quickly sent the foe in the right about. It seemed to me that few men could have conducted the business with more coolness and quietude of manner under such a storm of balls as he was exposed to. Indeed, I have never forgotten him from that day. So yeah, it's important to also recognize that you have a, you have a group of men that are about to fall apart and there's confusion. And one guy, and I talk about this all the time, one guy steps up, takes ownership of

• 24:36Jocko Willink?

  the situation, leads, and it changes the entire outcome of the battle. Think about that one person.

• 24:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:41Jocko Willink?

  You got a thousand men versus a thousand men. One person makes the difference.

• 24:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:46Jocko Willink?

  So if you're in a leadership position, think about that. Think about what you're doing. Are you leading? Are you stepping up? Are you galloping up on a horse and setting things right?

• 24:55Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 24:56Jocko Willink?

  Cause that's what you need to be doing. Back to the book. At the time I was remarking these matters, loading and firing as I lay, another circumstance divided my attention for a while and made me forget even the gallant conduct of General Hill. A man near me uttered a scream of agony and looking from the 29th who were on my right to the left, whence the screech had come, I saw one of our sergeants named Frazier, sitting in a doubled up position and swaying backwards and forwards as though he had got a terrible pain in his bowels. He continued to make such complaint that I arose and went to him. For he was rather a crony of mine. "Oh, Harris," said he, as I took him in my arms.

• 25:41Jocko Willink?

  "I shall die, I shall die. The agony is so great that I cannot bear it." It was indeed dreadful to look upon him. The froth came from his mouth and the perspiration poured from his face. Thank heaven. He was soon out of pain. And laying him down, I returned to my place. Poor fellow, he suffered more for a short time that he was dying than any man I think I ever saw in the same circumstances. I had the courtesy to return and look at him after the battle. A musket ball I found had taken him sideways and gone through both groins.

• 26:24Jocko Willink?

  Within about a half an hour after this, I left Sergeant Fraser. And indeed, for the time, had as completely forgotten him as if he had died a hundred years back. The sight of so much bloodshed around will not suffer the mind to dwell long in any particular casualty, even though it happened to one's dearest friends. There was no time either to think, for all was action with us rifles just at this moment. And the barrel of my piece was so hot from continual firing that I could hardly bear to touch it, and was obliged to grasp the stock beneath the iron as I continued to blaze away.

• 27:12Jocko Willink?

  Doesn't even have time to think about it.

• 27:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:18Jocko Willink?

  James Ponton was another crony of mine, a gallant fellow. He had pushed himself in front of me and was checked by one of our officers for his rashness. "Keep back, you, Ponton!"

• 27:31Jocko Willink?

  The lieutenant said to him more than once, but Ponton was to be restrained, but Ponton was not to be restrained by anything but a bullet when in action.

• 27:41Jocko Willink?

  This time he got one. Which, striking him in the thigh, I suppose, hit an artery, for he died quickly.

• 27:49Jocko Willink?

  The Frenchman's balls were flying very wickedly at that moment, and I crept up to Ponton and took shelter by lying behind and making a rest from my rifle of his dead body. It strikes me that I revenged his death by the assistance of his carcass. At any rate, I tried my best to hit his enemies hard. There were two small buildings to our front, and the French, having managed to get into them, annoyed us much from that quarter. A small rise in the ground, closed before these houses, also favored them, and our men were being handled very severely in consequence. They became angry, and wouldn't stand it any longer.

• 28:31Jocko Willink?

  One of the skirmishers, jumping up, rushed forward, crying, "Over, boys, over, over!" When he instantly, when instantly, the whole line responded to the cry, "Over, over, over", they ran along the grass like wildfire, then dashed at the rise, fixing their sword bayonets as they ran. The French light bobs could not stand the sight, but turned about, and fled. And getting possession of their ground, we were soon inside the buildings. After the battle was over, I stepped across the other house I have mentioned in order to see what was going on there. For the one I remained in was now pretty well filled with the wounded, both French and English, who had managed to get there for a little shelter.

• 29:17Jocko Willink?

  Two or three surgeons also had arrived at this house, and were busily engaged in giving their assistance to the wounded, now also here lying as thickly as in the building which I had left. But what struck me the most, but what struck me the most forcibly, was that from the circumstance of some wine butts having been left in the apartment, and having their engagement been perforated, having in the engagement been perforated by bullets and otherwise broken, the red wine had escaped most plentifully, and ran down upon the earthen floor where the wounded were lying, so that many of them were soaked in the wine with which their blood was mingled.

• 30:01Jocko Willink?

  I I I hate to even think about the medical care that these guys are getting and and the the medical care that that we had in Iraq was unbelievable. Not only from the speed that you would get assistance, but also the quality of care that you would get on in the field from our own medics and how quickly they would get you to get to you and then get you taken care of and then get you evacuated to a full medical facility. And that that actually changed during my time in the teams, for instance, the biggest the big the biggest change.

• 30:43Jocko Willink?

  It when when I first got in the teams, it the what we were taught was if someone gets shot, you immediately give them an IV, meaning, you know, a bag of fluid because they're bleeding, you got to replace that. And now the they don't do that automatically because your body has its own mechanisms when it loses blood to stop the bleeding. It pulls back in the the arteries and veins and it constricts them and and it clots the blood that's there and so and when you give someone an IV, the body thinks I don't need to do that, so it opens up the arteries, it opens up the veins, it doesn't constrict anything, it doesn't it clots slower. So there's like one example and that that's during my time.

• 31:26Jocko Willink?

  So that's the last 25 years that that change has taken place. So now you go back, you know, 100 and 200 years, it's totally different, totally different. And they'll talk more about that. The the basic, the basic plan was if you get shot in the limb, you're losing the limb. That that's basically what's going on, just amputations. And nowadays they do an incredible job of, you know, saving, saving limbs. If they can be saved, they save them. I mean, they do an incredible job.

• 32:02Jocko Willink?

  All right, back to the book. It was on the 15th of August when we first came up with the French. And their skirmishers immediately commenced operations by raining a shower of balls upon us as we advanced, which we returned without delay. And I haven't said this yet, but the reason they're saying balls instead of round is because these guys are shooting balls, the round balls of lead. And at this point, there was some rifling had started to come about, but what they basically just consider everything to be a ball of lead. And that's why they're not accurate. That's why they're only accurate out to 200 meters because they're not rifled like we have the tight rifling, spinning bullets today.

• 32:43Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book. The first man that was hit was Lieutenant Bunbury. He fell pierced through the head with a musket ball and died almost immediately.

• 32:54Jocko Willink?

  I thought I never heard such a tremendous noise as the firing made on this occasion, and the men on both sides of me, I could occasionally observe, were falling fast.

• 33:06Jocko Willink?

  I do not pretend to give a description of this or any other battle I have been present at. All I can do is tell the things which happened immediately around me, and that I think is as much as a private soldier can be expected to do. Soon afterwards, the firing commenced, and we had take, we had advanced pretty close upon the enemy. Taking advantage of whatever cover I could find, I threw myself behind a small bank where I lay so secure that although the Frenchman's bullets fell pretty thickly around, I was enabled to knock several over without being dislodged. In fact, I fired away every round I had in my pouch whilst laying in this spot.

• 33:49Jocko Willink?

  At length, after a sharp contest, we forced them to give ground and following them up, drove them from their position in the heights and hung up their skirts until they made another stand, and then the game began again.

• 34:04Jocko Willink?

  The rifles indeed fought well this day, and we lost many men. They seemed in high spirits and delighted at having driven the enemy before them. Joseph Kochan was by my side loading and firing very industriously about this period of the day. Thirsting with heat and action, he lifted his canteen to his mouth. "Here's to you, old boy," he said as he took a pull at its contents. As he did so, a bullet went through the canteen and perforated his brain, killing him in a moment. Another man fell close to him, almost immediately struck by a ball in the thigh.

• 34:47Jocko Willink?

  I saw a man named Simmons struck full in the face by a round shot, and he came to the ground a headless trunk.

• 35:00Jocko Willink?

  When the roll was called after the battle, the females who missed their husbands came along the front of the line to inquire of the survivors whether they knew anything about them. So, the wives could travel with the soldiers. And again, that just seems crazy to me right now, but that's the way they did it. And not all of them, but if they made that decision, I guess, as a family to stick together, they'd get right on board the boats and they'd march. They marched and they'd cover it. In this book, they wouldn't carry the weight, but they'd march alongside and go from place to place. And when the battle's about to take place, they'd hang back.

• 35:42Jocko Willink?

  And then you have the situation, once the battle's over, that I'm talking about right now. Amongst other names, I heard that of Kochan called in a female voice without being replied to. The name struck me, and I observed the poor woman who had called it as she stood sobbing before us and apparently afraid to make further inquiries about her husband. No man had answered to his name or had any given account to give of his fate. I myself had observed him fall, as related before whilst drinking from his canteen. But as I looked at the poor sobbing creature before me, I felt unable to tell her of his death. At length, Captain Leach observed her, and called out to the company,

• 36:28Jocko Willink?

  "Does any man know what has happened to Ko Chan? If so, let him speak out at once." Upon this order, I immediately related what I had seen, and told the manner of his death. After a while, Mrs. Ko Chan appeared anxious to seek the spot where her husband fell, and in the hope of still finding him alive, asked me to accompany her over the field. She trusted, notwithstanding what I had told her, to find him yet alive.

• 36:57Jocko Willink?

  "Do you think you could find it?" said Captain Leach, upon being referred to. I told him I was sure I could, as I had remarked many objects whilst looking for cover during the skirmishing. "Go then," said the captain, "and show the poor woman the spot, as she seems so desirous of finding the body."

• 37:16Jocko Willink?

  I accordingly took my way over the ground we had fought upon, she following and sobbing after me, quickly reaching the spot where her husband's body lay, pointed it out to her. She now discovered, soon, all her hopes were in vain. She embraced a stiffened corpse, and after rising and contemplating his disfigured face for some minutes, with hands clasped, and tears streaming down her cheeks, she took a prayer book from her pocket, and, kneeling down, repeated the service for the dead over the body. Poor woman.

• 37:55Jocko Willink?

  I pitied her much, but there was no remedy.

• 38:05Jocko Willink?

  Whole new dynamic right there.

• 38:11Jocko Willink?

  Continuing on back to the book, it was on the 21st of August that we commenced fighting the Battle of Vemiro.

• 38:19Jocko Willink?

  The French came down upon us as a column and the riflemen immediately commenced to sharp fire upon them from whatever cover they could get a shelter behind. Whilst our cannon played upon them from our rear. I saw regular lanes torn through their ranks as they advanced, which were immediately closed up again as they marched steadily on. Whenever we saw a round shot thus go through the mass, we raised a shout of delight. That's a savage image, right there. Ranks of men and there's cannonballs that are cutting lines, cutting lanes through them. And you're probably talking 20, 30 people killed each one and the ranks just close in around them.

• 39:02Jocko Willink?

  And that's what these guys are seeing as this advance takes place. They're continuing through that battle, they get into a position for another battle. Going back to the book, as I looked about me whilst standing in ranked and just thought, and just before the commencement of the battle, I thought it the most imposing sight the world could produce. Our lines glittering with bright arms, the stern features of the men as they stood with their eyes fixed unalterably upon the enemy. The proud colors of England floating over the heads of the different battalions and the dark cannon on the rising ground.

• 39:40Jocko Willink?

  And all in readiness to commence the awful work of death with a noise that would deafen the whole multitude. Although the sight had a singular and terrible effect upon the feelings of a youth who, a few short months before, had been a solitary shepherd upon the downs of Dorsetshire. And had never contemplated any other sort of life than the peaceful occupation of watching the innocent sheep as they fed upon the grassy turf.

• 40:13Jocko Willink?

  Talk about a dichotomy.

• 40:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:15Jocko Willink?

  No thought in his mind, other than watching sheep eat grass.

• 40:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. I would think that that'd be kind of a good little escape, you know, from time to time to notice those types of things.

• 40:31Jocko Willink?

  Yes, I think you're right. And I think that happens. And you know, there's a movie called The Thin Red Line. And that's portrayed very well. In all this chaos, he'll take cover and he'll be face to face with a flower.

• 40:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:46Jocko Willink?

  Or he'll notice a bird or a bug. And that's definitely, that's definitely something that people notice. I mean, I noticed there's the sunset.

• 40:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:54Jocko Willink?

  No matter where you are in the world.

• 40:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:55Jocko Willink?

  And actually, the sunset in the desert is a very beautiful thing.

• 40:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:59Jocko Willink?

  And same with the sunrise. And so those are little things that you notice, even though you might not be in the mindset to notice them.

• 41:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:07Jocko Willink?

  You still notice them.

• 41:11Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, the battle commencing immediately, we were all soon so hard at work. The rifles, as usual, were pretty busy in this battle. The French in great numbers came steadily down upon us. And we pelted away upon them like a shower of lead and hail. Under any cover we could find and lay, firing one moment, jumping up and running for it the next. And when we could see before us, we observed the cannonballs making a lane through the enemy's columns as they advanced. As they were hazzawing and shouting like madmen.

• 41:48Jocko Willink?

  The battle soon became general. The smoke thickened around. And often I was obliged to stop firing and dash it aside from my face and try in vain to get a sight of what was going on. Whilst groans and shouts and a noise of cannon and musketry appeared almost to shake the very ground.

• 42:07Jocko Willink?

  It seemed hell upon earth, I thought. A man named John Low stood before me at this moment and he turned around during a pause in our exertions and he addressed me, Harris, you humbug. He said, you've got plenty of money about you, I know. For you're always staying about and picking up what you can find on the field. But I think this will be your last field day, old boy. A good many of us will catch it, I suspect today. You're right, Low, I said. I've got nine Guineas in my pack. And if I am shot today and you escape yourself, it's quite at your service. In the meantime, however, if you see any symptoms of my wishing to flinch in this business,

• 42:50Jocko Willink?

  I hope you will shoot me with your own hand.

• 42:55Jocko Willink?

  Low. So, so let's think about that. That's, that's pretty awesome. First of all, the attitude of they're basically talking smack to each other. Classic. Hey, I don't think you're gonna make it. I know you have a lot of money on you. And if you don't make it, what do you say? Is that mine? Yes. If I die, come and get it. I got nine Guineas in my pack. They're all yours. And then this is classic. By the way, if you see me acting cowardly in any way, you better shoot me. Yeah, yeah. It's legit. Low, as well as myself, survived this battle. And after it was over, whilst we sat down with our comrades and rested amongst other matters, talked over, Low told them of our conversation during the heat of the day

• 43:38Jocko Willink?

  and the money I'd collected and the rifles from that time to time had a great respect for me. It is indeed singular how a man loses or gains caste with his comrades from the behavior and how closely is he is observed on the battlefield. Again, talking about reputation once again.

• 43:57Jocko Willink?

  The officers too are commented upon and closely observed. Everyone's watching the officers. The men are very proud of those who are brave in the field and kind and considerate to the soldiers and under them.

• 44:14Jocko Willink?

  An act of kindness done by an officer has often during battle been the cause of his life being saved. Got a little relationship going. Nay, whatever folks may say upon the matter, I know from experience that in our army, the men like best to be officered by gentlemen. Men whose education has rendered them more kind in manners than your corps officer sprung from obscure origin and whose style is brutal and overbearing. So, as I was reading through that, I, at first, I kinda got a little bit taken aback because I said, "Oh, what are you trying to say? If you haven't been to college or you're, that's what you need? You need to be from this good upbringing?"

• 44:59Jocko Willink?

  But that's not, well, that might be what he's saying at that time, but the important part is, it's how you treat people. Doesn't matter what background you came from. You know, he says, "Men whose education has rendered them more kind in manners," and rather than someone that's from an obscure origin, what I'm telling you is, it doesn't matter where you're from. And he would agree with this now if he was here to talk with me.

• 45:21Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 45:22Jocko Willink?

  But it's not, he's talking about the men like to work for officers that aren't brutal and overbearing. No one likes that.

• 45:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:32Jocko Willink?

  And you don't perform well. You want to build the relationship with your troops. The kindness done by an officer has often during the battle been the cause of his life being saved. That means guys are trying to win.

• 45:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:48Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, and let me bear testimony to the courage and endurance of the, of that army under trials and hardships, such as few armies in any age, I should think, endured. I've seen officers and men hobbling forward with tears in their eyes from the misery of long miles, empty stomachs, and ragged backs, without even shoes or stockings on their bleeding feet. And it was not a little thing that would bring a tear into the eyes of a rifleman of the peninsular wars. Youths, who had not long been removed from their parents' home and care, officers and

• 46:28Jocko Willink?

  men, have borne hardships and privations such as, in our more peaceful days, we have little conception of.

• 46:38Jocko Willink?

  And yet, these men, faint and weary with toil, would brighten up in a moment when the word ran amongst us that the enemy were at hand.

• 46:51Jocko Willink?

  Once again, he's ragging on, "You haven't really been to war lately."

• 46:56Jocko Willink?

  Peaceful days and

• 47:00Jocko Willink?

  brutal privations that these guys go through, and yet they're still ready to step up. Back to the book, "It was just at the close of the battle, the dreadful turmoil and noise of the engagement had hardly subsided, and I began to look at the faces of the men close around me to see who had escaped the dangers of the hour. I saw that the ranks of the riflemen looked very thin. It seemed to me that one half had gone down. We had four companies of the Ninety-Fifth and were commanded that day by Major Travers. He was a man much liked by the men of the rifles, and indeed deservedly beloved by all who knew him. He was a tight hand, but a soldier likes that better than a slovenly officer."

• 47:47Jocko Willink?

  Pay attention to that one.

• 47:50Jocko Willink?

  Don't be a slovenly leader. The troops prefer the tight hand. Back to the book, "I had observed him more than once during this day, spurring here and there, keeping the men well up and apparently in the highest spirits. He could not have enjoyed himself more, I am sure, if he had been at a horse race or following a good pack of hounds. The battle was just over, a flag of truce came over from the French. We threw ourselves down where we were standing when the fire ceased. A Frenchman lay close beside me. He was dying and called to me for water, which I understood him to require more from his manner than his words. I need not say that I got up and gave it to him.

• 48:33Jocko Willink?

  Whilst I did so, down galloped the major in front, just in the same good spirits he'd been in all day, plugging along, avoiding with some little difficulty the dead and dying which were strewn about. He was never a very good-looking man, being hard-featured and thin, a hatchet-faced man, as we used to say. But he was a regular good'un, a real English soldier, and that's better than if he had been the handsomest ladies' man in the army."

• 49:06Jocko Willink?

  Legit.

• 49:10Jocko Willink?

  Totally legit.

• 49:13Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, a French soldier was lying beside me at this time. He was badly wounded and hearing him moan as he lay after I had done looking at the cavalry, I turned my attention to him and getting up, lifted his head and poured some water into his mouth. He was dying fast, but he thanked me in a foreign language which although I did not exactly understand, I could easily make out by the look he gave me. Mullins of the rifles, who stepped up whilst I supported his head, damned me for a fool for my pains. "Better knock out his brains, Harris," he said. "He's done us mischief enough. I'll be bound for it today."

• 49:54Jocko Willink?

  So Rifleman Harris is still a pretty sympathetic dude.

• 50:00Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, towards evening I posted upon a rising ground amongst a clump of tall trees. There seemed to have been a sharp skirmish here as three Frenchmen were lying dead amongst the long grass upon the spot where I was standing. As I threw my rifle to my shoulder and walked past them on my beat, I observed they had been plundered and their haversacks having been torn off, some of the contents were scattered about.

• 50:25Jocko Willink?

  "War is a sad blunter of the feelings," I have often thought since those days. The contemplation of three ghastly bodies in this lonely spot failed then in making the slightest impression upon me. The sight had become, even in the short time I had been engaged in the trade, but too familiar.

• 50:49Jocko Willink?

  And now there, another truce kinda happens and he's observing the scene in this churchyard. The scene in this churchyard was somewhat singular. Two long tables had been procured from some houses near and were placed end to end amongst the graves, and upon them were laid the men whose limbs it was found necessary to amputate. Both French and English were constantly lifted on and off these tables. As soon as the operation was performed upon one lot, they were carried off and in those waiting behind were hoisted up. The surgeons with their sleeves turned up and their hands and arms covered in blood, looking like butchers in the shambles.

• 51:34Jocko Willink?

  I saw as I passed at least twenty legs lying on the ground, many of them being clothed in the long black gaiters then worn by the infantry line. The surgeons had plenty of work on hand that day, and not having the time to take the clothes off the wounded, they merely ripped the seams and turned the cloth back, proceeding with the operation as fast as they could.

• 51:58Jocko Willink?

  Many of the wounded came straggling into this churchyard in search of assistance by themselves, and saw one man, faint with loss of blood, staggering along and turned to assist him.

• 52:10Jocko Willink?

  He was severely wounded in the head, his face being completely encrusted with blood, which had flowing during the night now dried.

• 52:19Jocko Willink?

  One eyeball was knocked out of the socket and hung down upon his cheek. Another man I observed, who had been brought in and propped up against a grave mound. He seemed very badly hurt. The man who had carried him into the churchyard had placed his cap, filled with the fragments of biscuit, close beside his head, and he lay and occasionally turned his mouth towards it, got a hold of a piece of biscuit and munched it.

• 52:47Jocko Willink?

  As I was about to leave the churchyard, Doctor Ridgeway, one of the surgeons, called me back to assist with holding a man he was endeavoring to operate upon.

• 52:57Jocko Willink?

  "Come and help me with this man," he said, "or I shall be all day cutting a ball out of his shoulder."

• 53:04Jocko Willink?

  The patient's name was Dowder, an Irishman. He disliked the doctor's efforts, and writhed and twisted so much during the operation that it was with difficulty Doctor Ridgeway could perform it. He found it necessary to cut very deep, and Dowder made a terrible outcry at every fresh incision. "Oh, doctor, dear doctor," he said, "it's murdering me you are! Blood and hounds, I shall die, I shall die, for the love of the Lord, don't cut me all to pieces."

• 53:35Jocko Willink?

  Dowder was not altogether wrong. For although he survived the operation, he died shortly thereafter, from the effects of his wounds.

• 53:49Jocko Willink?

  Again, you just got surgeons mixing blood and not clean and not even cutting off clothes or sterilizing. I mean, the amount of people that must have lost from infections after the fact is just crazy.

• 54:09Jocko Willink?

  Now, they weren't fighting all the time. And at this point, they are quartered in a house in Spain. And again, Spain was divided at the time, and there was friendly and enemy Spain. And so they're quartered in a house, and there's a family there. And here we go to the book. "The mistress of the house, seeing that I was the headman, occasionally came down and sat beside me as I worked, bringing her daughter, a very handsome, dark-eyed Spanish girl. And as a matter of course, I fell in love.

• 54:42Jocko Willink?

  We soon became better acquainted, and the mother one evening, having sat and chattered to me, serving me with wine and other good things, on my rising to leave the shop, made a signal for me to follow her. She had managed to pick up a little English, and I knew a few words of the Spanish language, so that we could pretty well comprehend each other's meeting. And after leading me into their sitting room, she brought in her handsome daughter, and without more circumstance, offered her to me for a wife.

• 55:12Jocko Willink?

  The offer was a tempting one, but the conditions of the marriage made it impossible for me to comply, since I was to change my religion and desert my colors. The old dame proposed to conceal me, effectually, when the army marched, after which I was to live like a gentleman, with the handsome Maria for a wife.

• 55:33Jocko Willink?

  It was hard to refuse so tempting an offer, with pretty Maria endeavoring to back her mother's proposal. I, however, made them understand that nothing would tempt me to desert, and promising to try and get my discharge when I returned to England, I protested I would then return and marry Maria.

• 55:54Jocko Willink?

  Soon after this, the army marched for Spain.

• 55:58Jocko Willink?

  The rifles paraded in the very street where the shop I had so long worked at was situated, and I saw Maria at the window."

• 56:08Jocko Willink?

  As our bugle struck up, she waved her handkerchief. I returned the salute.

• 56:16Jocko Willink?

  And in a half an hour, had forgotten all about her. So much for the soldier's love.

• 56:23Jocko Willink?

  That, I, I read that and I said, I have to read this. This is to every eighteen, nineteen, twenty and twenty-one year old service member out there that you meet the girl of your dreams and you, you, you think you're gonna do some dumb stuff.

• 56:38Jocko Willink?

  Don't do the dumb stuff.

• 56:41Jocko Willink?

  Go back to your platoon and in a half an hour, you'll forget about her. Cause that's what happens.

• 56:50Jocko Willink?

  Such, so much for a soldier's love.

• 56:54Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, every man in the rifle seemed only anxious to get a rap at the French again.

• 57:01Jocko Willink?

  On and on we toiled. I love to remember the appearance of that army as we moved along at this time. It was a glorious sight to see our colors spread in these fields. The men seemed invincible. Nothing I thought could have beaten them.

• 57:18Jocko Willink?

  Now he's talking about a guy named Cardo. He was found to be a most gallant officer when we were engaged with the enemy in the field. He was killed whilst fighting bravely in the Pyrenees. And amongst other jewelry he wore, he had a ring on his finger worth one hundred and fifty guineas. As he lay dead on the field, one of our rifle, riflemen named Orr, observed the sparkling gem and immediately resolved to make a prize of it. The ring, however, was so firmly fixed that Orr could not draw it from the finger. And whipping out his knife, cut the finger off at the joint. After the battle, Orr offered the ring for sale amongst the officers.

• 57:59Jocko Willink?

  And on inquiry, the manner in which he had obtained it transpired. Orr was cons, Orr was in consequence, tried by court martial and sentenced to receive five hundred lashes. Which sentence was carried into execution. There's some significant corporal punishment going on here with the, with the lashes.

• 58:22Jocko Willink?

  And that's one of the cases. I mean, you know, when you're executing someone for being drunk and disorderly, you're gonna get some pretty severe punishment for cutting the finger off of one of your officers so you can steal their ring.

• 58:39Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, it was during the heat of the day, we were rather hotly pressed by the enemy after having advanced somewhat too near their force. Give and take is all fair enough, but we were getting more kicks than half pence, as the saying is, and their balls stung us so sharply that the officers gave the word to fire and retire.

• 58:58Jocko Willink?

  Doubtless, many got a leaden messenger as they did so, which saved them the unpleasant necessity of retracing their ground altogether.

• 59:08Jocko Willink?

  Jock Gillespie and myself wheeled about and obeyed the order. Just as we had done so, I saw Gillespie limp along as though someone had bestowed a violent kick upon his person. However, he didn't give up at first, but continued to load and fire and make off with other skirmishers till we halted and made another stand. For we never went further from them when once engaged than we could possibly help. I'm gonna read that again.

• 59:42Jocko Willink?

  "We continued to load and fire and make off with other skirmishes till we halted and made another stand, for we never went further from them when once engaged than we could possibly help." And what that means is, cover and move. So, if you are out on the battlefield and you get too far away from the other element where you can no longer support them, you've made a big mistake. So, that's why they have doctrinal terms that mean, "I am in supporting distance, I won't go further away from you than where I can't help you."

• 1:00:27Jocko Willink?

  Alright, now, speaking of lashing, there's another situation here. There was sort of a ceremony where they were gathering and standing in the parade, sort of in a town square, and somebody basically threw, I think, like a brick.

• 1:00:47Jocko Willink?

  At it's one of the soldiers from one of the windows that was watching the other regiment. So there's one regiment standing on the parade field handing out awards or something. The other regiment's sitting up in the various rooms around looking down. And at some point, this, this, someone hucks a brick down and it hits the colonel. So this guy Liston was the guy that they, they grab and they think it's this guy Liston. Back to the book, Liston was sentenced to receive 800 lashes. The whole brigade turned out on the occasion and I remember that the drummers of the ninth regiment were the inflictors of the lash. Listened, Liston received the whole sentence without a murmur.

• 1:01:35Jocko Willink?

  This is a him talking about, as he goes on to talk about how this strict discipline about it and, and how it kind of fits in with the English mentality. Back to the book, they are a strange set, the English, and so determined and unconquerable that they will have their way if they can. Think about that. You got your soldiers, they're so, it's a great quality to have, right? You're, you're determined and unconquerable, but what does that mean? It means you're gonna have your way if you can. And if you let them, they're gonna, they're gonna get after it, maybe in a way you don't expect. Indeed, back to the book, it indeed, it requires one who has authority in his face as well as at his back to make them respect and obey him.

• 1:02:21Jocko Willink?

  They see too often in the instance of sergeant majors that command does not suit ignorant and coarse minded men. And that tyranny is too much used even in the brief authority which they have.

• 1:02:35Jocko Willink?

  So again, he's going back to the fact that even though you have to have, he's talking about the dichotomy of leadership, even though you have to have discipline, you can't have tyranny.

• 1:02:43Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, a soldier, I am convinced, is driven often to insubordination by being worried by these little minded men for the ver- the various trifles about which the gentleman never thinks of tormenting him. So the, this, the, the.

• 1:03:02Jocko Willink?

  The little minded person that harps on these little trifling things, that's what actually creates insubordination. Whereas the gentleman never thinks of tormenting them with these little things. Like, these little things don't matter. And then he goes on to balance this dichotomy of leadership. Back to the book, "The moment the severity of the discipline of our army is relaxed, in my opinion, farewell to its efficiency. But for men to be tormented about trifles, as I have seen it many times, is often very injurious to the whole corps." So this is the perfect talking about the balance of the dichotomy of leadership. If you're too ultra strict, your guys are gonna rebel against you. And if you're not strict

• 1:03:47Jocko Willink?

  enough, if you don't impose enough discipline, they're gonna not have any control. So you've gotta balance these two.

• 1:04:01Jocko Willink?

  Going forward, back to the book, "War is a sad blunter of the feelings of men." He said that before, and he's saying it again. "We felt eager to be at it again. Nay, I am afraid we longed for blood as the cheer of our comrades sounded in our ears. And yet, amidst all this, softer feelings occasionally filled the breasts of those gallant fellows, even whilst they were thirsting for the sight of the enemy. Some of the men near me suddenly recollected, as they saw the snow lying thickly on our path, that this was Christmas Eve.

• 1:04:36Jocko Willink?

  The recollection soon spread amongst the men, and many talked of home and scenes upon that night in the other days of old England, shedding tears as they spoke of their relatives and friends never to be seen again by them. As night approached, we became less talkative. The increasing weariness of our limbs kept our tongues quieter, and we were, many of us, half asleep as we walked, when suddenly a shout arose in the front that the French were upon us."

• 1:05:07Jocko Willink?

  So, guys are missing home, it's Christmas Eve, nice little dusting of snow on the ground.

• 1:05:16Jocko Willink?

  They're, they have this skirmish with the French there and now they're continuing, continuing the first march. And if you remember the march that the, that we talked about with Napoleon's troops going into Russia and back, these guys are under the same basic conditions of if you want to move the army, the army's gonna walk.

• 1:05:36Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, a sergeant of the, so he's now on this, also, not only they forced marching right now, they're starting to retreat. They're starting to, they, they're starting to take heavies and they start a retreat. Back to the book, a sergeant of the 92nd Highlanders just about this time fell dead with fatigue and no one stopped as we passed to offer him any assistance. Night came down upon us. So, so let's think about that. And this, I highlighted that one, but throughout this book, he talks about people just dying and he says they died of fatigue. I don't even know what that means, actually. Maybe they're dehydrated. I don't know. But if you think about these guys who are risking their lives for each other, how exhausted are they that when someone falls out during this first march, forced march, they just leave them there?

• 1:06:24Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, night came down upon us without our having tasted food or halted. I speak for myself and those around me, all, and all night long, we continued this dreadful march. Men began to look into each other's faces and ask the questions, ask the question, are we ever to be halted again? And many of the weaker sort were now seen to stagger, make a few desperate efforts and then fall perhaps to rise no more. Most of us had devoured all we carried in our haversacks and each, and, and endeavored to catch up anything we could snatch from a hut or cottage in our route.

• 1:07:03Jocko Willink?

  Many, even at this period, would have straggled from the ranks and perished, had not Crawford held them together with a firm rein. One such bold and stern commander in the East during a memorable disaster and that devoted army had reached its refuge unbroken. Thus, we staggered on night and day for about four days before we discovered the reason of this forced march.

• 1:07:31Jocko Willink?

  And they find out that they're marching actually towards England. They're trying to get away. And this guy that I talked about Crawford, he's pretty significant. And here's a little talk about Crawford. Crawford seemed to sniff the sound of battle from afar with peculiar feelings. He halted us for a few minutes occasionally when the distant clamor became more distinct and his face turned toward the sound and seemed to light up and become less stern. It was then indeed that every poor fellow clutched his weapon more firmly and wished for a sight of the enemy.

• 1:08:08Jocko Willink?

  Before long, they had their wish. The enemy's cavalry were on our skirts that night, and as we rushed out of a small village, we turned to bay.

• 1:08:20Jocko Willink?

  So even though they're retreating, they're still having to fight.

• 1:08:24Jocko Willink?

  And this, again, this guy Crawford is definitely a powerful leader. Back to the book, I remember one evening during the retreat, he detected two men straying away from the main body. It was in the early stage of that disastrous flight and Crawford knew.

• 1:08:42Jocko Willink?

  And Crawford knew well that he must do his utmost to keep the division together. He halted the brigade with a voice of thunder, ordered a drumhead court martial on the instant, and they were sentenced to a hundred apiece. Whilst a hasty trial was taking place, Crawford, dismounting from his horse, stood in the midst, looking stern and angry as a worried bulldog. He did not like retreating at all, that man.

• 1:09:12Jocko Willink?

  They march a little bit further and then back to the book, ordering a square to be formed. He spoke to the brigade as well as I can remember in these words after having ordered the three before named men of the 95th to be brought into the square. Although, he said, I should obtain the goodwill neither of the officers nor the men of the brigade here by doing so, I am resolved to punish these three men according to the sentence awarded, even though the French are at our heels. Begin with Daniel Howans. So, these guys were, looked like they were gonna desert, and they got caught, and he had a court martial on the spot, and gonna give him a hundred lashes, or whatever the

• 1:09:57Jocko Willink?

  number was, and even though they're ru- running and retreating,

• 1:10:03Jocko Willink?

  he's, alright, we're gonna administer this punishment now, even though it's not popular,

• 1:10:09Jocko Willink?

  I gotta do it. Back to the book, this was indeed no time to relax and discipline, and the general knew it. The men, as I said, were some of them,

• 1:10:18Jocko Willink?

  becoming careless and ruffianly in their demeanor, whilst others, again, I saw with my, with the tears falling down their cheeks from the agony of their bleeding feet, and many were ill with dysentery, and from the effects of bad food they had got a hold of and devoured on the road. Our knapsacks, too, were a bitter enemy in this prolonged march. Many a man died, I am convinced, who would have borne up well to the end of the retreat but for the infernal load we carried on our backs. My own knapsack was my bitterest enemy. I felt it press me to the earth almost at times, and more than once felt as if I should die under its deadly embrace. The knapsacks, in my opinion, should have been abandoned at the very commencement of

• 1:11:03Jocko Willink?

  the retrograde movement, as it would have been better to have lost them altogether if by such loss we could have saved the poor fellows who, as it was, died strapped to them on the road.

• 1:11:17Jocko Willink?

  There was some difficulty in finding a place to tie Howans up, as the light brigade carried no halberds. However, they led him to a slender ash tree which grew near at hand. "Don't trouble yourselves about tying me up," said Howans, folding his arms. "I'll take my punishment like a man."

• 1:11:38Jocko Willink?

  He did so without a murmur, receiving the whole three hundred. His wife, who was present with us, I remember, was a strong, hearty Irish woman.

• 1:11:51Jocko Willink?

  So don't worry about tying me up. You hit me 300 times. We had a, you know, they do the whipping thing with the, when you get your belt. Do you, do you remember Irish John? He was tall, pretty lanky and real good at jujitsu. And he got his blue belt. And he walked through the whipping hallway to get his belt. The gauntlet. The gauntlet. He wa- he walked through the gauntlet. He just walked and stopped at each person. And gave them the opportunity to give them all they got. Yeah. That was pretty legit.

• 1:12:27Jocko Willink?

  He sounds like, he sounds like my, my, he sounds like my boy Howens right here.

• 1:12:35Jocko Willink?

  More about Crawford right here. This is classic. They're, they're getting to a river. They got to cross a river on their retreat. Back to the book. Presently, he spied an officer who, to save himself from being wet through, I supposed, and wearing a damp pair of breeches for the remainder of the day, had mounted on the back of one of his men.

• 1:12:56Jocko Willink?

  The sight of such a piece of effeminacy was enough to raise the collar of the general. And in a very short time, he was plunging and splashing through the water after them both. Put him down, sir. Put him down. I desire to put that officer down instantly. And the soldier, in an instant, I dare say, loth dropping his burden like a hot potato into the stream, continued his progress through. Return back, sir, said Crawford to the officer. And go through the water like the others. I will not allow my officers to ride upon the men's back through the rivers. All must take their share alike here. You can just go ahead and note that down as how to lead.

• 1:13:37Jocko Willink?

  That's just, that's a metaphorical and literal example. Hey, I'm gonna ride on the back of my enlisted man so that I can stay dry. Yeah, yeah. What a savage. I think that, that guy should have gotten some lashes. Back to the book. General Crawford was indeed one of the few men who was apparently created for the command during such dreadful scenes as we were familiar with in this retreat. He seemed an iron man. Nothing daunted him. Nothing turned him from his purpose. War was his very element. And toil and danger seemed to call forth an increasing determination to surmount them.

• 1:14:21Jocko Willink?

  Legit.

• 1:14:25Jocko Willink?

  Now, they are continuing to march and again, it's, it's a story we've heard many times on here and how harsh foot marches can be. And at this point, Rifleman Harris, he's, he doesn't think he's gonna make it. And he's fading fast. He's marching with a guy named Brooks. They're kind of broken up into pairs to try and stay together a little bit. And he's trying to maintain. Back to the book, "I remember Sir Dudley Hill passing me on a mule this day. He wore a Spanish straw hat and had his cloak on. He looked back when he had passed and addressed me. Harris, said he. I see you cannot keep up." He peered very sorry

• 1:15:08Jocko Willink?

  for me, for he knew me well. "You must do your best," he said, "my man, and keep up with us, or you will fall into the hands of the enemy." As the day wore on, I grew weaker and weaker, and at last, spite all of my efforts, I saw the main body leave me hopelessly in the lurch. Brooks himself was getting weaker too. He saw it was of little use to urge me on, and at length, assenting to my repeated request to be left behind, he hurried on as well. And he was able, without a word of farewell. I now soon sank down in the road and lay beside another man who had also fallen, was apparently dead,

• 1:15:53Jocko Willink?

  and whom I'd recognized as one of our sergeants named Taylor.

• 1:16:06Jocko Willink?

  Whilst we lay exhausted in the road, the rear guard, which was now endeavoring to drive on the stragglers, approached, and a sergeant of the rifles came up and stopped and looked at us. He addressed himself to me and ordered me to rise, but I told him it was useless for him to trouble himself about me, as I was unable to move a step further. Whilst he was urging me to endeavor to rise up, the officer in command of the rear guard also stepped up. The name of this officer was Lieutenant Cox. He was a brave and good man, and observing that the sergeant was rough in his language and manner towards me, he silenced him and bade the guard proceed and leave me.

• 1:16:48Jocko Willink?

  Let him die quietly Hicks, he said to the sergeant. I know him well. He's not a man to lie here if he could get on. I'm sorry Harris, he said, to see you reduced to this, for I fear there is no help to be had now.

• 1:17:05Jocko Willink?

  He then moved on after his men and left me to my fate.

• 1:17:14Jocko Willink?

  Lot different than never leave a man behind. You've actually got people just saying, hey, you're not gonna make it. I can see you're not gonna make it. I know you're a tough guy and if you're not, if you're not walking right now, there's, we got nothing for you.

• 1:17:25Speaker 01

  Dang, yeah.

• 1:17:28Jocko Willink?

  Now, he lays there for a while and he actually, once he rests for a while, he regains a little bit of strength. He eventually crawls to a house, gets in the house and gets a little bit of food, gets a little bit of, and I would love to say water, but he doesn't get water, he gets food and wine. And he recovers somewhat, he pretty much recovers. Um, sleeps for a while, wakes up, recovers and now he can, now he can walk again and.

• 1:18:00Speaker 01

  What do you think would happen now? Like i- in a case as similar to this as possible, you know, but just now, where a guy can't make it, what do you do? Carry him?

• 1:18:11Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I mean, you'd try and carry him, of course.

• 1:18:13Speaker 01

  Other guys.

• 1:18:13Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and I, I mean, it's horrible to think of these situations where if we have to move these, all these men and to sit there, if we start, let's, let's weigh this, you'd have to weigh this. If we try and carry all of our wounded out, where none of us are gonna live.

• 1:18:31Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:18:32Jocko Willink?

  So that's, that's what, that's the situation that they're likely facing. Hey, you're either gonna get out of here yourself and people don't understand how hard it is to carry a down man. It's, it's very, very difficult to carry a down man, especially across terrain. Then, you know, sometime in wrestling practice, you pick up and you, you pick up your partner and you do a couple laps, right? And, eh, you know, it's all good. You're on this nice, smooth surface.

• 1:18:56Speaker 01

  The guy's cooperating.

• 1:18:57Jocko Willink?

  The guy's cooperating, it's not just dead weight. It's, yeah, when you start carrying bodies around, it's really, really difficult. So you don't, it's not a one to one either. So if one guy is down, you can't, it's not just one person carries that guy. It actually has to be two or sometimes three. When you have gear on. And we have methods of carrying guys. I mean, well, I can carry you a little while, right? But after a little while, you know, be that 500 meters, 1,000 meters, you're not going to be, and also your combat ineffective. You can't, you can't utilize your weapon properly. Not for, not for any length of time. So you know, in a situation like this, that the decision that these leaders are making is, hey, guess what?

• 1:19:41Jocko Willink?

  If we don't just keep walking, we're going to get overrun. The French are going to catch us and we're all going to die.

• 1:19:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:47Jocko Willink?

  So Harris ain't got nothing for you.

• 1:19:49Speaker 01

  So in like now, we'll say that if there was a circumstance like that where we're going to lose more guys if we bring this guy with us or?

• 1:20:00Jocko Willink?

  One big luxury that we have now is we have air, air support.

• 1:20:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:05Jocko Willink?

  So, oh, the enemy wants to keep coming at us. Cool. We'll sit here and call drop bombs on them all day. Situations like that have happened over and over again in the modern wars in Iraq and Afghanistan where small elements are out there in the field. They're about to get overrun and the aircraft and air, air fire, uh, air power comes in and completely saves the day and keeps the enemy at bay for extended periods of time.

• 1:20:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:28Jocko Willink?

  So we have a, an option, another option.

• 1:20:32Speaker 01

  But in the, I guess ultimately it'd be hypothetical then, that a case.

• 1:20:37Jocko Willink?

  Hypothetically, then, then you got to put someone in that situation and see what they're going to do. And that's a decision you got to make as a, as a leader and on the spot.

• 1:20:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:44Jocko Willink?

  I mean, you'd be weighing all these micro, micro facets that are happening. How far away are the bad guys?

• 1:20:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:53Jocko Willink?

  Well, how many of them are there? Do I have reinforcements coming? Is there any terrain I can take? Is there what, you know, what can I do? How many people are down?

• 1:21:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:02Jocko Willink?

  You have to weigh all these things out and make a decision. It's going to be a hard decision.

• 1:21:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure. I mean, so you don't put like the, the, the concept, or should I say, um, like the action of at least trying to bring the guy with you ahead of like other guys' lives. So a circumstance like this where hypothetically, you don't have any, you don't have any support. You don't have any other options. It's either other guys die or we leave this guy behind.

• 1:21:35Speaker 01

  The fact that you tried to bring the guy doesn't trump like the lives of other guys.

• 1:21:44Speaker 01

  Where if the decision is to be made where it's understood like other guys would have died. If we didn't leave this guy here, that would be okay.

• 1:21:52Jocko Willink?

  It's not gonna be okay and you're gonna have to live with one horrible.

• 1:21:56Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:21:56Jocko Willink?

  Thought or the other.

• 1:21:58Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 1:21:59Jocko Willink?

  The, the thing that's powerful about we're not gonna leave everything, anyone behind. The thing that's powerful about that is if that's your, if that's your default mode, your default mode is to fight and that's what, that's what, that's what we train. That's when I say we, I mean like America trains. We're not gonna leave you behind. And so when that's your go to attitude, that's your go to attitude. And all the thoughts about, hey, we'll weigh it out and all this and it's like, no.

• 1:22:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:24Jocko Willink?

  We're gonna fight, we're gonna kill everyone and we're gonna, we're gonna do everything we can to, to bring everyone back. That's what we do.

• 1:22:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:30Jocko Willink?

  And that is a powerful thing.

• 1:22:32Speaker 01

  Yeah. Man, these are savage times, bro.

• 1:22:35Jocko Willink?

  These are savage times, savage times.

• 1:22:39Jocko Willink?

  Going, so like I said, he does recover though, luckily before the French get to him. He recovers enough to get out, start walking again. And he talks a little bit how he was clinging, I mean, he was clinging to survival. Back to the book, it is however, indeed astonishing how a man clings to life. I am certain that had I lain down at this period, I should have found my last billet on the spot I sank upon. Suddenly I heard a shout in the front, which was prolonged in a sort of hubbub.

• 1:23:14Jocko Willink?

  Even the stragglers whom I saw dotting the road in front of me seemed to have caught something like hope. And as the poor fellows now reached the top of the hill we're ascending, I heard an occasional exclamation of joy, the first note of the sort I had heard for many days.

• 1:23:31Jocko Willink?

  When I reached the top of the hill, the thing spoke for itself. There, far away in our front, the English shipping lay in sight.

• 1:23:40Jocko Willink?

  It's a view had indeed acted like a restorative to our force and the men at the prospect of the termination of such a march had plucked up spirit for a last effort. Fellows who, like myself, seemed hardly have strength in their legs to creep up the ascent seemed now to have picked up a fresh pair to get down with. Such is hope to us poor mortals. So they obviously see the ships and that inspires them and they start moving a little bit faster.

• 1:24:20Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, there was, I recollect, a man of the name of Bell of the Rifles, who had been during this day, holding a sort of creeping race with me. We had passed and repassed each other as our strength served. Bell was a rather discontented fellow at the best of times, but during this retreat, he had given full scope to his ill temper, cursing the hour he was born and wishing his mother had strangled him when he came into the world in order to have saved him from his present toil. He had not now spoken for some time and the sight of the English shipping had apparently a very beneficial effect upon him. He burst into tears as he stood and looked at it.

• 1:25:03Jocko Willink?

  Harris, he said, if it pleases God to let me reach those ships, I swear never to utter a bad or discontented word again. Appreciation. And he did make it to the ships and Harris, Rifleman Harris, made it to the ships and they got embarked on those ships and they sailed back to England for a few days and then get off the English shore and then finally back to the book. One fine morning, we received orders to disembark and our poor bare feet once more touched English ground.

• 1:25:46Jocko Willink?

  The inhabitants flocked down to the beach to see us as we did so, and they must have been a good deal surprised at the spectacle we presented. Our beards were long and ragged, almost all were without shoes and stockings, many had their clothes and accoutrements in fragments, with their heads suaved in old rags and our weapons were covered with rust, whilst not a few had now, from toil and fatigue, become quite blind.

• 1:26:17Jocko Willink?

  Let not the reader, however, think that now we were to be despised as soldiers. Long marches, inclement weather and want of food had done their work upon us, but we were perhaps better than we appeared, as the sequel showed. Under the gallant Crawford, we had made some tremendous marches, and even gouled our enemy so severely, making good our retreat.

• 1:26:44Jocko Willink?

  But our comrades in adversity, who had retired by the other road, under General Moore, turned to bay there and showed the enemy that the English soldier is not to be beaten, even under the most adverse circumstances.

• 1:27:00Jocko Willink?

  The field of death and slaughter, the march, the bivouac, and the retreat are no bad places in which to judge men.

• 1:27:12Jocko Willink?

  I have had some opportunities of judging them in all these situations, and I should say that the British are amongst the most splendid soldiers in the world.

• 1:27:22Jocko Willink?

  Give them fair play, and they are unconquerable. For my own part, I can only say that I enjoyed life more whilst on active service than I have ever done since.

• 1:27:36Jocko Willink?

  And as I sit at work in my shop in Richmond Street, Soho, I look back upon that portion of my time spent in the fields of the peninsula as the only part worthy of remembrance.

• 1:27:52Jocko Willink?

  It is at such times that scenes long past come back upon my mind as if they had taken place but yesterday.

• 1:28:02Jocko Willink?

  I remember even the appearance of some regiments engaged and comrades long mouldered to dust, I see again, performing the acts of heroes.

• 1:28:30Jocko Willink?

  Acts of heroes.

• 1:28:36Jocko Willink?

  And I think it's safe to call Rifleman Benjamin Randall Harris a hero as well.

• 1:28:53Jocko Willink?

  And at the same time, I think it's important to remember that these

• 1:29:03Jocko Willink?

  these men, these heroes, they're not superheroes like we see today in movies. They don't wear a cape, they don't have any superhuman strength, they have no special powers. What they do have is they have will.

• 1:29:24Jocko Willink?

  The will to fight, the will to drive on, the will to live, the will to win.

• 1:29:36Jocko Willink?

  And I think that's the superpower.

• 1:29:43Jocko Willink?

  And it never ceases to amaze me, these are normal people. Rifleman Harris was a normal guy.

• 1:29:54Jocko Willink?

  Like us.

• 1:29:58Jocko Willink?

  But when called upon to march, they march. And when called upon to fight, they fight. And when called upon to rise up and overcome, they do just that. They rise up and overcome.

• 1:30:21Jocko Willink?

  And that shows us

• 1:30:25Jocko Willink?

  that we can do the same thing in the challenges that we face.

• 1:30:33Jocko Willink?

  We can do the same thing.

• 1:30:38Jocko Willink?

  Rise.

• 1:30:41Jocko Willink?

  And overcome.

• 1:30:46Jocko Willink?

  And I think that's all I've got for tonight. So Echo,

• 1:30:55Jocko Willink?

  perhaps if you could let people know how they can support themselves.

• 1:31:02Jocko Willink?

  And maybe if they want to support this podcast as well.

• 1:31:06Speaker 01

  It's crazy how these marches, right?

• 1:31:08Jocko Willink?

  Brutal.

• 1:31:09Speaker 01

  Yeah. And this is, I don't know, I mean, from what I can remember, the worst one, especially how they talk about it with no shoes. Their shoes, their shoes probably just fall off within the first, you know, little bit. And then they're walking with no shoes or barely any shoes or whatever, crying straight up just from the march, by the way. Not the, not the war or anything like that where the march is yet

• 1:31:35Speaker 01

  just as big of an enemy.

• 1:31:38Jocko Willink?

  He said his pack was his biggest enemy he had.

• 1:31:41Speaker 01

  Literally though.

• 1:31:41Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:42Speaker 01

  The kind where guys are straight up dying.

• 1:31:44Jocko Willink?

  Killing them.

• 1:31:45Speaker 01

  Killing them.

• 1:31:48Speaker 01

  So we, we just got back from Utah, obviously. And, um, you know, after every, we're doing that training where, you know, we brief, debrief, go down exercise brief, and then, you know, we walk back and forth.

• 1:32:01Jocko Willink?

  So, okay. So Echo, I'll just tell you because people have no idea what you're talking about, which is fine. Echo, we just, Echelon Front did a

• 1:32:09Jocko Willink?

  FTX field training exercise with a company. We were in Utah. We brought Echo out so that he could get some footage and whatnot. And so that's what he's talking about. So we're in the field. We're doing basically urban combat with a group of, let's call them regular people, business people that are learning leadership through experiential

• 1:32:35Jocko Willink?

  environments.

• 1:32:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's an interesting one. It's like a, it's like a, you know how if you don't communicate with someone effectively, things fall apart.

• 1:32:47Jocko Willink?

  Right, right, right.

• 1:32:48Speaker 01

  Or if you don't, you know, it's like,

• 1:32:49Jocko Willink?

  I know exactly what you're gonna say.

• 1:32:51Speaker 01

  This drawn out situation in life, but this is like a condensed version of that.

• 1:32:56Jocko Willink?

  And yes. So if you don't communicate with someone during an FTX, do you know within like 30 seconds that something just went wrong?

• 1:33:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:04Jocko Willink?

  And now we're getting shot in the face with, with airsoft rifles.

• 1:33:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. It's so, it's really fun to watch from the outside.

• 1:33:12Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:13Speaker 01

  To, because you see it. And I've been to another one too. And yeah, you see it's right. And it's interesting how in the beginning, it's like, it's almost impossible. Like you don't, and immediately communication breaks down immediately.

• 1:33:25Jocko Willink?

  Yep.

• 1:33:25Speaker 01

  And then towards the end, you start to see people communicating, getting it, you know, like where you kind of, a lot of times you gotta over communicate.

• 1:33:32Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 1:33:33Speaker 01

  And but the more you do that, the more effective it is. You know, it's so crazy to watch.

• 1:33:38Jocko Willink?

  It is. And I don't know if you remember Dave saying this. Dave told them, he said, Jocko just told you the mistakes that you're gonna make. He told you what you're going to do.

• 1:33:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:49Jocko Willink?

  And you're gonna do it. And then sure enough, every single one of them.

• 1:33:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:53Jocko Willink?

  The funniest was the one individual that said, they came up with a plan for something. And we said, you know, you're risking get a blue on blue there.

• 1:34:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34:01Jocko Willink?

  And she said, She said, listen, I understand what you're saying, but it's not like we're gonna walk in there and start shooting each other. That's not gonna happen. And sure enough, that very girl was in a stressful situation and they entered a building from two different sides at the same time. And sure enough, she she dusted one of her, one of her teammates. And it was, you know, was one of those things. I said, hey, remember what you said yesterday? She said, oh, yeah, I remember.

• 1:34:31Speaker 01

  So interesting. And I had the luxury of seeing it from the outside. So you can feel it, though. Oh, yeah, but you're in a different situation, position than me. Anyway, the point is, um, so the terrain there was where the field and where you where you actually do the the field training part of it is like, well, what would you say, what? Hundred hundred yards away from the where you do the briefs and debriefs?

• 1:34:56Jocko Willink?

  It's about 400 yards. Yeah.

• 1:34:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. So it's it's a little bit of a track.

• 1:35:00Jocko Willink?

  300 yards. Yeah.

• 1:35:01Speaker 01

  If you're doing it again and again. So you were going brief, exercise, debrief, brief, exit, you know, so kind of all day, really.

• 1:35:12Speaker 01

  So, and this was a situation where there it was a hill and rocky, you know, hill. So so I'm walking right and I have my camera the whole time. And it's not slater than my other camera, but you know, it's something. And so I'm walking back and forth all day, all day, where my feet are starting to get like, kind of tired, more tired than normal. And I'm thinking every but every single time, though, every single time I'm thinking, this is nothing compared to what you guys were going through. Yeah.

• 1:35:40Jocko Willink?

  You know how nothing it was? I didn't that that thought didn't even cross my mind at all in any way, shape or form.

• 1:35:45Speaker 01

  You know what's interesting about that is while I'm walking, this was like after lunchtime. I'm thinking, I'm seeing you guys and everyone's cruising. And I'm thinking, is everyone trying to act like this isn't like, kind of, kind of tiring?

• 1:35:55Jocko Willink?

  I literally didn't think of it until you said this to me right now.

• 1:35:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. The thing is, I was I was totally acting like, oh, this is nothing. And I wasn't gonna mention it. I was gonna, I, yeah, bro, that's how I handle a lot of stuff now. And it helps. But the fact is.

• 1:36:08Jocko Willink?

  Do you do actually better when you pretend that it doesn't bother you?

• 1:36:12Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:36:13Jocko Willink?

  That's, see, people got to remember that.

• 1:36:14Speaker 01

  Night and day.

• 1:36:15Jocko Willink?

  Night and day. So you start acting all tired, accepting it, showing everyone.

• 1:36:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's true. But nonetheless, the fact is, it wasn't nothing. It wasn't nothing. I felt it and, you know. So it's funny, I'm looking at you guys. I'm like, hey, I wonder if these guys are, you know, but no one said anything. Nobody said dang, these tracks are getting long.

• 1:36:38Jocko Willink?

  That's because they were 300 meters, bro.

• 1:36:42Jocko Willink?

  If that.

• 1:36:44Speaker 01

  But nonetheless, so every time I feel anything like that, I think of like you guys first. And you guys were doing it in like crazy heat too with gear and like all this stuff. And I think of this kind of guys, these kind of guys.

• 1:36:58Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:59Speaker 01

  Rifleman Harris.

• 1:37:00Jocko Willink?

  Rifleman Harris.

• 1:37:02Speaker 01

  Feet all tore up, starving, starving.

• 1:37:06Jocko Willink?

  Starving.

• 1:37:06Speaker 01

  No sleep.

• 1:37:07Jocko Willink?

  No water.

• 1:37:08Speaker 01

  No water.

• 1:37:09Jocko Willink?

  And people are trying to kill you.

• 1:37:11Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:37:12Jocko Willink?

  So that's the point, man. Is if these guys can rise and overcome that, then what? Figure your personal potential.

• 1:37:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:37:19Jocko Willink?

  Right?

• 1:37:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:37:20Jocko Willink?

  Think of it. Think of what more you could do.

• 1:37:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:37:23Jocko Willink?

  That bothers you a little bit. I just saw the look and bother some of your eyes.

• 1:37:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, that looked.

• 1:37:27Jocko Willink?

  You're like, hey, I made some dope videos though.

• 1:37:30Speaker 01

  I'm about to make a huge excuse right now too. Which I don't even know if it's an excuse, but it's a factor where these like hard, actual hard times kind of call on you to to exercise this kind of will, you know? And I think a lot of times we're not like hard times don't call on us like this anyway. I mean, hard times do, you know? But you know what though? You know what though?

• 1:37:55Speaker 01

  It, you should, but I mean technically and potentially you should be able to exercise as much will as it takes. Really now, when you consider kind of the limits, you know, because these are the limits.

• 1:38:07Jocko Willink?

  These are the limits. I thought it was interesting. This is, this is one of the stories where the guy's like, I'm done.

• 1:38:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:12Jocko Willink?

  He's like, okay, I'm done. Guys are saying, hey, if you stay here, you're gonna die. He's like, yeah, I cannot move anymore. I mean, you think about, you know, what, what point are you at when you cannot save your own life by walking? You can't walk, can't take another step.

• 1:38:28Jocko Willink?

  And he came back from that.

• 1:38:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, it and they do a really good job in illustrating it cuz he or or talking about it where cuz he mentioned the no shoes thing a few times.

• 1:38:42Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, he did, but again, I bet if yeah, yeah, he's he does a great job. But you can't even begin to.

• 1:38:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:53Jocko Willink?

  Can't even begin to really get the point across.

• 1:38:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:57Jocko Willink?

  The way it is.

• 1:38:58Speaker 01

  As the the reader.

• 1:38:59Jocko Willink?

  I was talking to a guy the other day. That went to Bud's and didn't make it through.

• 1:39:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:05Jocko Willink?

  And. I known him for a while and I I just said like, hey, man, well, you know, you're a good dude, you know, what? Why did you? Why did you quit? And he said, you know, it just sucked. And I was like, OK, but didn't you know it was gonna suck? And he said, yeah, I knew it was gonna suck. But. At the same time, you know, I watched on TV and I thought to myself, OK, yeah, that's gonna suck. He said, so I I thought I understood how it was gonna suck.

• 1:39:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:35Jocko Willink?

  But I didn't understand how it was gonna suck.

• 1:39:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:37Jocko Willink?

  And I was there, I said, this really sucks and he quit. And again, a good dude that that. I'm kind of, you know, thinking to myself, why I I'm trying to figure out why people quit.

• 1:39:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:48Jocko Willink?

  And that was what he said, he said, much like we're saying, like as much as you could imagine. And you think to yourself, oh, man.

• 1:39:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:55Jocko Willink?

  But I think I I could make that one more step. You don't know.

• 1:39:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:59Jocko Willink?

  You don't know until you've been dehydrated, having people trying to shoot you, cleaning up your buddy's brains off your jacket for weeks, months on end.

• 1:40:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:40:09Jocko Willink?

  You're dehydrated and now you have no shoes, no stockings. And you're march, you're doing a forced march on this road for this, they marched four days without stopping. What even is that?

• 1:40:22Speaker 01

  No, dang, yeah. Yeah, that's it. I mean, you.

• 1:40:29Speaker 01

  This kind of, that's not to mention like no medical care. No, like no one's coming to save you.

• 1:40:37Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, you know, you know, it's really jacked up to think about this. Think if you have an ingrown toenail. Right, right. Like, like a little thing that is, it actually bothers you in actual life.

• 1:40:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:40:50Jocko Willink?

  Think if you had that here, or you have a, or you have, let's say you got a sprained ankle.

• 1:40:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:40:54Jocko Willink?

  A bad sprained ankle.

• 1:40:56Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:40:56Jocko Willink?

  I sprained my ankle really bad before.

• 1:40:58Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:40:59Jocko Willink?

  You can't walk on it. Well, now you don't have a choice. You either walk on it or you die.

• 1:41:04Speaker 01

  Die.

• 1:41:04Jocko Willink?

  Think about the little things that are, that caused you an inconvenience right now. And think about what an inconvenience that is in this situation. Think about you get a little infection in your fingers. You know, your finger, you're, you ever had one of those little stupid, like where your fingernail is, get a little infection there?

• 1:41:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:22Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Think about that.

• 1:41:22Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:41:23Jocko Willink?

  And that you don't have no medicine. You don't have any way of, that's the things are going to turn into a giant infection.

• 1:41:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:28Jocko Willink?

  You die. The little, little tiny things that annoy you are, will kill you back in the day. Check.

• 1:41:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:39Jocko Willink?

  So what we have to do is prepare for these hard times. Do you have any advice on how we could help prepare ourselves for these hard times?

• 1:41:45Speaker 01

  On top of referencing these scenarios. I reference your guys scenario, like the basically everything that you guys, guys tell me and talk about, like how it's super hot. How you don't sleep as much. I'm not talking about, but I'm talking about like Ian Rimadi, like all this stuff. I can imagine that helps, totally helps.

• 1:42:07Jocko Willink?

  Hmm. That's good. Cause it, it helps me to think about Rifleman Harris.

• 1:42:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:11Jocko Willink?

  For sure.

• 1:42:12Speaker 01

  Me too. Speaking of help.

• 1:42:16Speaker 01

  Speaking of help, helping yourself.

• 1:42:19Speaker 01

  So you're, in a way, this is kind of a dichotomy here. Cause you know, like when your joints get sore, I'm talking about. Joining our friend real quick.

• 1:42:29Speaker 01

  You can be compelled to

• 1:42:30Jocko Willink?

  Supreme luxury.

• 1:42:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know.

• 1:42:33Jocko Willink?

  Harrison would have had Krilla on joint warfare. Who knows?

• 1:42:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, who knows? But maybe it wouldn't have stopped that day, that time.

• 1:42:39Jocko Willink?

  Ah, supreme luxury.

• 1:42:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, supreme luxury where now it's like, hey, my joints, I'm getting older. My joints kind of hurt. I can't, I can't work out at the gym, you know, at my leisure as good. Let me take some joint warfare, you know, improve my comfort while I work out. Function for sure. Function, but comfort has, has a lot to do with it. Working out with sore joints is way less comfortable than not sore joints.

• 1:43:07Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. I'm going to say though, there's exercises that you cannot do when you, when your joints aren't ready to rock and roll.

• 1:43:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:43:15Jocko Willink?

  So you can push yourself harder and be better prepared for the hard times if you're working correctly. If your joints are working correctly.

• 1:43:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's a dichotomy. And there also is no like concession. There's no, there's no reason to say, hey, my joints being less healthy is a good, is fine, is good. That's a good thing, you know? So you have a choice. Should I, should I maintain or improve the joint, my joint health, the health of my body, including but not limited to joints, or should I not? The decision should never be, I'm not. Never be. I think that's just my opinion. Anyway, um, so the point is, so Jocko, some supplements, joints, it's for your joints. To me, best kind of supplements.

• 1:44:03Speaker 01

  As, as someone who, with a level head now, as far as supplements goes, go, I think the joint for your joints, um, you know, bones, maybe stuff that's going to basically

• 1:44:20Jocko Willink?

  Structure, structural, structural support.

• 1:44:23Speaker 01

  Cause again, and I said, I said this before, like if you're like going for some cool protein powder. A lot of people that say, hey, what's a good protein powder? Here's the thing, you don't, like, how much protein do you like not get to need supplemental protein?

• 1:44:38Jocko Willink?

  Well, people, people want that because of convenience. That's why people like those very, very few. I'm gonna make one that's gonna be both convenient and tasty and good.

• 1:44:50Speaker 01

  Alright, there you go. Nonetheless, that's cool. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying as far as like the importance of focusing on a supplement, the most benefit. Okay, so you're supplementing your convenience that really

• 1:45:04Jocko Willink?

  For sure.

• 1:45:05Speaker 01

  You're not supplementing protein, you're supplementing convenience. Nothing wrong with that, nothing wrong with that. We've got a lot to do. I understand. But as far as like the, the, what do you call it? The hierarchy of supplements.

• 1:45:16Jocko Willink?

  Oh dang, Jordan B. Peters and supplements are in the house.

• 1:45:19Speaker 01

  Dominance hierarchy of supplements, the, the krill oil, omega threes, like these kinds of things that help you directly. That's the, that's the main ones. Anyway.

• 1:45:33Jocko Willink?

  So your point in all this is?

• 1:45:34Speaker 01

  Jocko's supplements, legit supplements.

• 1:45:39Speaker 01

  Super krill oil, Jocko super krill is what it's called, it's krill oil free joints and joint warfare.

• 1:45:47Jocko Willink?

  Where do you get them?

• 1:45:48Speaker 01

  Origin main dot com.

• 1:45:50Jocko Willink?

  Okay, thank you.

• 1:45:51Speaker 01

  Bro, I'm telling you, these are, these, I feel like.

• 1:45:53Jocko Willink?

  You're drawing this out way too much, bro.

• 1:45:57Jocko Willink?

  If, if I was doing this to be like, hey, uh, if you want to have good, healthy joints, get some krill oil, super krill, and get some joint warfare from origin main dot com. M A I N E.

• 1:46:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, but.

• 1:46:09Jocko Willink?

  And then we'd be good. We'd be moving on to the next thing.

• 1:46:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I dig it and I.

• 1:46:12Jocko Willink?

  Cause you're over here talking about the hierarchy.

• 1:46:14Speaker 01

  Here's the thing though.

• 1:46:15Jocko Willink?

  Dominant hierarchy of supplements.

• 1:46:17Speaker 01

  Remember, and this makes sense. This is relevant.

• 1:46:20Jocko Willink?

  Don't get all serious with me, Chad, because you're gonna prove your point because you're not doing it.

• 1:46:23Speaker 01

  I'm gonna prove a point because it needs to be proven. No, because back.

• 1:46:26Jocko Willink?

  Out of your element.

• 1:46:26Speaker 01

  Again, again, when I was, we'll say twenty three. I'm gonna take some phosphat something.

• 1:46:35Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:46:36Speaker 01

  You know?

• 1:46:36Jocko Willink?

  I took that stuff. I usually, yeah.

• 1:46:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. So what if someone listening or a group of people listening?

• 1:46:43Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:44Speaker 01

  Who have that same mindset and it's not because, not because I knew both things and I would just, I just didn't know.

• 1:46:50Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 1:46:50Speaker 01

  So I'm gonna say it now, so now we know.

• 1:46:51Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, well, that's good. If there's someone that doesn't know that, maybe they turned this off like eight minutes ago.

• 1:46:56Speaker 01

  Maybe, maybe not. Or maybe they're more educated now and maybe boom, they're now they're looking into the joint situation. That's what I think is happening. That's my opinion. Hey, that's my prediction.

• 1:47:05Jocko Willink?

  I'm sure Twitter will let us know.

• 1:47:07Speaker 01

  Anyway. originmaine.com on the top, click labs. Actually, it's right on the front page. I keep forgetting this. Right on the front page, boom, super curl, jock, super curl.

• 1:47:18Speaker 01

  And joint warfare, get on it. There's also some geese and rash guards. People have been asking me years now. What geese should I get? I started jiu jitsu, what geese should I get? We know now. We know now, hundred percent. All made in America, from the cotton, from the seeds of the cotton. Planted, harvested, processed. Excited about seeds, did you? The seeds!

• 1:47:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, that's an exciting thing, I'm just saying. Yeah. If you're into that kind of thing. But nonetheless, you know, Pete makes it in Maine. Formulates the fabric, boom, geese. Other stuff too, by the way. Clothing. Pete has more of like a stylish kind of twist on his clothing. Yeah. In fact, I always, who was it? Oh, Dave Burke. Yeah. When we were in Utah. Yeah. Had the origin, uh, the hoodie, you know? And the hoodie has like, I don't know if you know this kind of stuff, but... Like, there's certain cuts of like hoodies and stuff, and even though it's like a basic pull over. XL. Yeah, yeah, see, it goes beyond that, brother. Yes, it does. Anyway, Mike, you know, it's noticeable for people who want to notice it. Did he notice that? Dave Burke did. Oh, what?

• 1:48:26Speaker 01

  He was like, dang, that's a good, like, that's a good hoodie. And it's just a pull over one, you know? Come on, Dave. Ah, hey, it's something. It's not nothing, it's something. Nonetheless, it's all made in America, and there is a little stylish twist if you're there to notice, if you care to notice.

• 1:48:44Speaker 01

  Has some fashion style baked in there. If, if you don't notice, you don't notice, because you, you ever wore the, you wore the hoodie, right? Functional. Yeah. Warm too, kept me warm. I'm not used to nineteen degrees like it was in Utah. Yeah, you weren't used to that. I don't think I've ever been in nineteen feet. I was, but I had that hoodie on, helped. You guys had these big ass cortex jackets. Anyway. You didn't plan well. Nonetheless, all the stuff on originmaine.com is made in America from seeds of the cotton. All the way to the final garment you're wearing. Yeah. Yep. It's good one. Check out the stuff on there, good way to support. Also, in your

• 1:49:26Speaker 01

  fitness routines, if you want to expand out of like just basic, hey, bench, squat, burpees.

• 1:49:36Speaker 01

  Deadlifts, what else? Basic ones.

• 1:49:38Jocko Willink?

  Pull ups.

• 1:49:39Speaker 01

  Pull ups, yeah. If you want to expand, do some like cool, interesting stuff on it.com slash Jocko. Go there. They got some cool fitness gear. Kettlebells, which are, they got all the kettlebells, including the artistic ones. Those are cool. I think. Those are all the ones I have, just artistic ones.

• 1:49:54Jocko Willink?

  Check.

• 1:49:55Speaker 01

  Makes it funner. Puts a little twist on it. And you can mix up your workout as far as creativity, which keeps it fun. For some people, not Jocko. Some people though, if you vary the workout, like new movements, new functional movements, if you will, um, you're more likely to stick with it, stay on the path. Make the path enjoyable sometimes. Don't just neglect the enjoyability of your workout.

• 1:50:24Speaker 01

  If you want. On it.com slash Jocko. Really good fitness gear on there. Um, you know, check it out. See what you like and uh, get something. Also, when you are buying the book,

• 1:50:37Speaker 01

  Recollections of Rifleman Harris, I'm gonna make it easy for you. We have made it easy for you. Go on the website, Jocko Podcast dot com. On the top menu says, Books from Episodes. Boom. There's a list of all the books by episode. Click through there to get it. Takes it to Amazon. And um, boom, good way to support. If you want to do some other shopping while you're on there, like, what? Lawnmowers.

• 1:51:04Jocko Willink?

  Golf clubs.

• 1:51:05Speaker 01

  Golf clubs. Podcast equipment. Recently, a lot of people have been hitting me up saying, hey, I'm gonna start a podcast. What's the equipment, you know, I should get?

• 1:51:14Jocko Willink?

  They asked me that too, when I say ask Echo.

• 1:51:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, no wonder.

• 1:51:18Jocko Willink?

  I just talk.

• 1:51:19Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:51:20Jocko Willink?

  You press record.

• 1:51:21Speaker 01

  Yes. And I got the equipment. So I have that knowledge. And

• 1:51:25Jocko Willink?

  Excited about that, are we?

• 1:51:27Speaker 01

  So, hey, having knowledge is better than not having the knowledge in whatever regard. Nonetheless, if you're gonna buy podcast equipment, carry on. Do that stuff. But yeah, click through. That's good. Good way to support. Also, subscribe to the podcast if you haven't already on Stitcher, iTunes, obviously, Google Play, Spotify, confirmed.

• 1:51:49Jocko Willink?

  Oh.

• 1:51:50Speaker 01

  It seems weird that I didn't know that for sure.

• 1:51:54Jocko Willink?

  Seems real weird.

• 1:51:55Speaker 01

  Here's the thing. So many things.

• 1:51:58Jocko Willink?

  Not that weird. We need to talk about it for eight minutes.

• 1:52:02Speaker 01

  I'm saying this is, I guess, yeah, you know what? You're right. It's just me expressing myself. Look, all you gotta know, Spotify confirmed, she was out there, confirmed it to me.

• 1:52:12Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:12Speaker 01

  And that's really the good thing about people interacting.

• 1:52:16Jocko Willink?

  Yes, it is.

• 1:52:18Speaker 01

  You learn a lot about yourself in your own situation.

• 1:52:21Jocko Willink?

  They know things that you don't know. I know things that I don't know.

• 1:52:24Speaker 01

  Cause they're detached and they have different expertise, by the way, in a lot of ways, most ways. Anyway, subscribe if you haven't already. Also subscribe on YouTube. There's excerpts on there. If you don't want to listen, or if you don't want to necessarily watch the whole episode, video version of this podcast, you can just get little excerpts that you can share, watch, or even come back to. That's a big one.

• 1:52:49Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, we've put out so much that it's too much. People can't absorb it all the first time around.

• 1:52:55Speaker 01

  Yeah. Wait, what do you mean? Like the whole episode?

• 1:52:57Jocko Willink?

  No, no, no. You, what was on episode 63, right? People, people don't remember that thing. They maybe, so you, just like jujitsu, you go listen, you learn it again, and now you, now it's more recognizable.

• 1:53:09Speaker 01

  Yeah. So it's like drilling a little bit.

• 1:53:12Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:12Speaker 01

  So I'm gonna come back, I'm gonna drill some more. Yeah, and some, you know how like certain things just apply to you more? Like if you're, your advice on, I don't know, college, that's the easy one to remember.

• 1:53:22Jocko Willink?

  Right.

• 1:53:23Speaker 01

  About how to approach college, like crush college or whatever. It's gonna apply to me more if I'm actually in college, you know?

• 1:53:29Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, unless you just apply that to other things in life, which you can easily do.

• 1:53:33Speaker 01

  You can, for sure, but that's gonna apply to me directly, we'll say, you know, more than maybe the next guy. So that kind of stuff where that one I want to remember. Okay, I'm gonna come back to that one. If I can constantly remind myself of the things that directly apply to me, you can be more, it's gonna be more beneficial, rather than just listening to all the podcasts and hoping you remember each one. Nonetheless, point there is that's it, that's a good reason to subscribe to the YouTube channel. So if you, in fact, if the excerpts, or some excerpts resonate with you,

• 1:54:08Speaker 01

  you got them there at your fingertips and you can share them. Also, Jocko is a store. It's called Jocko's Store. jockostore.com, that's the URL there. There, that's where you can get, if you want shirts.

• 1:54:20Jocko Willink?

  People don't even know what URL is anymore.

• 1:54:23Speaker 01

  Of course they do.

• 1:54:24Jocko Willink?

  You think so?

• 1:54:25Speaker 01

  I think that's common language. No, actually, no, I think you're right.

• 1:54:28Jocko Willink?

  They just call it a website.

• 1:54:29Speaker 01

  Website, yeah, the website.

• 1:54:31Jocko Willink?

  What does URL stand for?

• 1:54:32Speaker 01

  The C-R, I don't even know.

• 1:54:34Jocko Willink?

  See?

• 1:54:34Speaker 01

  Here's the thing, I knew, but I forgot. No, I'm actually not a tech guy.

• 1:54:38Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, but you knew what URL meant.

• 1:54:41Speaker 01

  I knew what it meant, I don't know what it stands for. You know, you know, I don't know. Universal something?

• 1:54:47Jocko Willink?

  Ask your brother.

• 1:54:49Speaker 01

  I know, it's probably not even universal.

• 1:54:51Jocko Willink?

  Jade Charles.

• 1:54:53Speaker 01

  Nonetheless, it's Jocko, the website is jockostore.com. I know, not that creative, but easy to remember. That's where you can get the shirts, hoodies, rash guards, compression rash guards, if you will, for various activities where you're maintaining range of motion. Jiu-Jitsu specifically, in my opinion. Hoodies on there, hoodies, all the hoodies, they're the same design, but they're the heavy ones. People have been asking me, like, are these the heavy ones? Or where's the heavy hoodies? They're the same ones. We, like, the non-heavy ones, we'll call them, I thought they were heavy. The first kind of iteration.

• 1:55:33Jocko Willink?

  Exactly.

• 1:55:36Speaker 01

  Those were all sold out. They sold out last year.

• 1:55:38Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:39Speaker 01

  And so I did another iteration with your request for the heaviest, they're the heaviest ones. Actually, I think there might be some industrial heavier one, maybe? No, because I think that was, I don't know, I forget. Nonetheless, these are the heavy ones. Confirm, double confirm. Also, some women's stuff on there. I think I'm gonna add a few things before Christmas on the store.

• 1:56:09Jocko Willink?

  That'd be good.

• 1:56:10Speaker 01

  So if you want, keep your eyes on that, that's a good way to support. If you want something, get something. Check them out. Also, Psychological Warfare. If you don't know what that is, I'm telling you, it's an album with tracks. Jocko talking on these tracks.

• 1:56:26Speaker 01

  Basically, you listen to them when you are, you know, on the path, we'll say, on the path. And you get moments of weakness, days of weakness, you know, those, you're not feeling like it. You know how you always talk about like, it doesn't matter if you feel like it or not, you just do it. Yeah, okay, okay, so, and I respect that, and that's where we all wanna, wanna be, we all wanna be there.

• 1:56:51Speaker 01

  But for some of us, it's not like that hundred percent of the time. Sometimes when you really don't feel like it, sometimes when I really don't feel like it. I just don't do it, man, sometimes, I gotta be honest.

• 1:57:05Jocko Willink?

  We'll put on psychological warfare and you'll do it.

• 1:57:07Speaker 01

  Yes, it's like a spot, you know, especially, this is where it's like a no brainer, like really easy. When you, you're like contemplating, like, I could, I could just do this tomorrow, right? And you start making deals with yourself, you ever do that?

• 1:57:23Jocko Willink?

  No deals with myself, no deals with the weak part of me.

• 1:57:26Speaker 01

  So you don't, so straight up, Jocko.

• 1:57:29Jocko Willink?

  No deals.

• 1:57:30Speaker 01

  Jocko, like, I don't feel like it, I feel like it, whatever.

• 1:57:34Jocko Willink?

  That actually makes me angry, I get pissed at myself.

• 1:57:38Speaker 01

  At yourself.

• 1:57:39Jocko Willink?

  If I start leaning towards, like, oh, maybe I just won't do anything, no, oh, really, really? Oh, is that how it is? That's how, okay, cool, we're gonna go smash.

• 1:57:47Speaker 01

  You know, it's real funny, I, I, that doesn't surprise, I've witnessed that with you. Like, we'll be talking, like, I don't know if we can kinda do that, then you get this sort of look, this kinda way about you, kinda like.

• 1:58:00Jocko Willink?

  So what Echo's talking about is, Echo's going on vacation, and he's gonna be gone for a couple of weeks. And I've been real busy with all kinds of stuff, and we were talking about if we'd be able to actually get all these podcasts done. And I didn't think we could do it. And so I said, hey, Echo, you know, we're just gonna have to take, you know, no, no podcast for a few weeks. And then, then I said, actually, like, a day went by, and I sent, I sent Echo a text that said, actually, we're gonna do it. I'm gonna do, we're gonna record all the podcasts, I'm gonna prep for them all. We're gonna have an all nighter, and we'll just get it done, bring some Red Bull, and get some, bring some Jocko White Tea.

• 1:58:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, what was interesting about that is, when you said that, you had this kinda tone of like, dang.

• 1:58:51Jocko Willink?

  Damn it.

• 1:58:52Speaker 01

  Like, we gotta take a break. We gotta take a break. After two years, by the way.

• 1:58:56Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:56Speaker 01

  Every single week, by the way.

• 1:59:00Speaker 01

  We gotta take a break. That's what you said.

• 1:59:02Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:03Speaker 01

  And right when, and I was like, cool. I dig it. No, I mean, I'm not saying good. I'm saying cool. I I totally understand. And you know what? That makes sense. HBO.

• 1:59:15Speaker 01

  Big company. Takes huge breaks.

• 1:59:18Jocko Willink?

  Everybody takes huge breaks.

• 1:59:19Speaker 01

  Everybody takes huge breaks. Yeah. Apparently. And you're over here, two years in, no breaks, no breaks, no matter what. Okay, so.

• 1:59:28Jocko Willink?

  There'll come a time when we are forced to for some reason.

• 1:59:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's kind of part of the point, brah. So I'm like, cool. I dig it. I totally understand, Jocko. And when I said that, that's when your face kind of shifted, like, kind of you went into your own world. And I was like, did I just say that? Like, it's almost like you sort of got mad. Real subtle, but it was there. And I was like, oh, we're not taking a break. I know Jocko's gonna come back.

• 1:59:52Speaker 01

  Nonetheless, and I'm sure that, okay, so I dig it. But.

• 1:59:58Speaker 01

  Back to psychological warfare. If you

• 2:00:03Speaker 01

  need a spot, or even want a spot with those times that you're like, maybe I'll skip the workout. Maybe I'll slip on the diet. I mean, just listen to any track. And the track is labeled, you know, where if you can skip on the diet, it's like, sugar coated. Wait, what is it?

• 2:00:19Jocko Willink?

  Sugar coated lies.

• 2:00:20Speaker 01

  But it's something, something's sugar coated lies.

• 2:00:22Jocko Willink?

  Sugar coated lies.

• 2:00:23Speaker 01

  It's just sugar. Yeah. So you listen to that. And then what's good is it's not some inspirational, you can do it. It's not that. It's like, it's pragmatic.

• 2:00:32Jocko Willink?

  I'm not here to do that.

• 2:00:33Speaker 01

  Well, here's the thing, though. You, just by nature, your tone of voice, kind of, kind of like, by happenstance, inserts that concept in it. So it's kind of a double, double thing, as it turns out. But primarily, it's just, it's a pragmatic thing. Think about, think about this. Logical stuff. And then at the end of the track, you kind of conclude that, oh, yeah.

• 2:00:55Jocko Willink?

  I'm gonna get after it.

• 2:00:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. Right. That's what psychological warfare is. It is on iTunes, Amazon Music.

• 2:01:02Jocko Willink?

  Google Play, wherever you get MP3s. MP3s.

• 2:01:05Speaker 01

  True story. Good way to support.

• 2:01:07Jocko Willink?

  Also, you get Jocko White Tea. And if you're having trouble deadlifting less than 8,000 pounds, if you get Jocko White Tea, that will be solved immediately and your, your deadlift will then be 8,000 pounds, including, uh, Jordan B Peterson, who can now deadlift 8,000 pounds. He broke through his 7,000 pound.

• 2:01:22Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 2:01:23Jocko Willink?

  Cap.

• 2:01:23Speaker 01

  Barrier.

• 2:01:24Jocko Willink?

  Barrier. Books, I got some books. Way of the Warrior Kid, number one. Um, don't let your kid be a wimpy kid. Why would you do that? Or why would you let your neighbor's kid be a wimpy kid? Why would you do that? Get him on the path.

• 2:01:39Jocko Willink?

  Way of the Warrior Kid path, stronger, faster, smarter, better. Get some extreme ownership. The new addition is out and thanks to you all, because we added questions, your questions from this podcast into an appendix inside. Not every question, but a, a bunch of them, a good amount. So they're in there. There's also a new Ford and some new color pictures. Color pictures. Interesting. Yeah. Cause I don't like color pictures. I said, no.

• 2:02:11Speaker 01

  Decade.

• 2:02:12Jocko Willink?

  They said, well, this is more premium. I said, no, black and white is as premium as it gets. So anyways, if you want to see what I look like in color,

• 2:02:21Jocko Willink?

  then you can get the book, but to, to offset that, I said, okay, fine. You want to put color pictures in there? Make the whole book black. So that's what they did. They made the whole book black. And that was that. And speaking of black also, the Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual is available worldwide. And I told you about that tagline that the publisher wanted to have like the, um, this book is a superb gift for the holiday season. And I told them, no.

• 2:02:52Jocko Willink?

  The tagline is there's no better gift than discipline.

• 2:02:57Jocko Willink?

  That's the truth. You know, it's actually true. If you could give someone the gift of discipline, would you not be giving them the best gift in life?

• 2:03:03Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:03:04Jocko Willink?

  Now you can actually give them the gift of discipline equals freedom field manual. So you can do that. Now, this is important because people keep asking me the field manual audio version, discipline equals freedom field manual is it is also on iTunes, Amazon Music, Google Play, other MP3 platforms. It's available right now. It is not on Audible. Audible is not with tracks. We wanted an album with tracks. That's why we did it this way. For something on top of the books and the podcast, if you need leadership, training and execution at your business or with your team, you can contact our leadership consulting

• 2:03:40Jocko Willink?

  company. It's me, it's JP Denell, Leif Babin, Dave Burke, [email protected]. And if you have questions for us, or you have answers for us, a couple of questions I asked today, you can communicate with us on the interwebs, on Twitter, on Instagram, and on the Facebook.

• 2:04:06Jocko Willink?

  Echo is at Echo Charles and I am at Jocko Willink. And to the service men and women out there right now, holding the line, slogging through the mud and the heat and the danger and the fear. Thank you for defending us and our freedoms and to the police, law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics, other first responders. Thanks for living the life that you live, which allows us to live the life we live.

• 2:04:40Jocko Willink?

  And to everyone else that's listening, just remember that you might not be wearing a cape. You might not have any magic powers, but you have the ultimate power and that is human will. The power to march, to fight, to overcome, and to get after it.

• 2:05:06Jocko Willink?

  So until next time, this is Echo and Jocko. Out.