Raccoon Wars, Lindsay Clancy, NFL Scammers & Past Crimes - Matt McCusker #1149

Matt McCusker is a comedian, writer, author and podcaster. Expect to learn what Chris’ raccoon wars are all about, Matt reacts to Tolstoy’s diary entries and the Lindsay Clancy trial, what Matt’s former life as an ethical drug dealer was like, the great joys of becoming a father, Matt’s thoughts on the fake 49ers football player, why Matt would make for a poor private investigator and much more… Sponsors: See discounts for all the products I use and recommend: ⁠https://chriswillx.com/deals⁠ Get a Free Sample Pack of LMNT’s most popular flavours with your first purchase at https://drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom Get 160+ lab tests for just $365 and save an extra $25 at https://functionhealth.com/modernwisdom Sign up for a free trial from Shopify at https://shopify.com/modernwisdom Get up to $50 off the RP Hypertrophy App at https://rpstrength.com/modernwisdom Get ChatGPT to explore ideas, solve problems, and learn faster at ⁠https://chatgpt.com Timestamps: (00:00) Do Raccoons Love Urkel Cereal? (04:37) Bourgeois vs Bosh: Who Is the Epitome of Britain? (10:48) The Vicious Farts That Wake Up Your Partner (15:00) Can You Get More American Than Bull Riding? (21:07) Is Line Dancing the Next Big Cult? (29:05) Is This the Biggest NFL Scam? (32:15) How Lindsay Clancy Divided America (41:00) Why Support After Birth Is So Important (46:13) Why Having Kids Makes Getting Hit in the Nuts Worth It (56:48) Are We All Natural Pessimists? (01:10:30) Was Matt a Bad Drug Dealer? (01:19:04) Are Life’s Clichés Actually Right? (01:25:47) Ending Up in the Same Spot Isn’t the Same as Having Never Left (01:34:02) Was Matt a Private Investigator? (01:37:08) Where to Find Matt Extra Stuff: See me live in the UK & Ireland this October: ⁠https://chriswilliamson.live Get my free reading list of 100 books to read before you die: ⁠https://chriswillx.com/books⁠ Try my productivity energy drink Neutonic: ⁠https://neutonic.com/modernwisdom⁠ Episodes You Might Enjoy: #577 - David Goggins - This Is How To Master Your Life: ⁠lnkfi.re/SN-Goggins⁠ #712 - Dr Jordan Peterson - How To Destroy Your Negative Beliefs: ⁠lnkfi.re/SN-Peterson⁠ #700 - Dr Andrew Huberman - The Secret Tools To Hack Your Brain: ⁠lnkfi.re/SN-Huberman⁠ - Get In Touch: Instagram: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx⁠ Twitter: ⁠https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx⁠ YouTube: ⁠https://www.youtube.com/modernwisdompodcast⁠ Email: ⁠https://chriswillx.com/contact⁠ - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Chris Williamson?

  People of the UK and Ireland, if you've listened to Modern Wisdom for a while but haven't seen me live, it isn't just a podcast on stage where you can finally see my legs. It's a show that I've spent over a year building specifically for a live audience. There are stories I've never told before, ideas I've deliberately saved for the stage, audience confessions and a Q and A where I try to solve your biggest problems. Dublin has already sold out and all of the other cities aren't far behind. So if you want to see me live, head to chriswilliamson.live. That's chriswilliamson.live. I'm in a battle with raccoons at the moment.

• 0:31Speaker 01

  Where?

• 0:32Chris Williamson?

  At my backyard.

• 0:33Speaker 01

  Really?

• 0:33Chris Williamson?

  It's just me versus raccoons at the moment.

• 0:35Speaker 01

  Do they go on your roof?

• 0:37Chris Williamson?

  They, I've got this nice couch thing, like these, it's like comfy, you can lie on it. And they've just wrecked that, every single night they come in and they wreck that. They decided they were gonna tear up one croc. I had like two crocs, a pair of crocs left outside. I mean, they might have done me a, like, fashion fucking favour.

• 0:54Speaker 01

  I always feel bad. I almost, I fought the urge to wear crocs here today.

• 0:58Chris Williamson?

  You're a crocs guy?

• 0:59Speaker 01

  I love crocs.

• 0:59Chris Williamson?

  Unreal. But anyway, I'm actually at war with these fucking raccoons. It feels very demoralising, like losing a war of wits with an animal that survives exclusively on garbage.

• 1:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11Chris Williamson?

  Like, that's what's defeated me. But I haven't been able to get rid of them, so.

• 1:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, you gotta trap them.

• 1:16Chris Williamson?

  You trap, but then what do you do? Get a professional?

• 1:18Speaker 01

  Get rid of them, yeah. Go send them somewhere. Or have a professional can trap them. They'll just release them somewhere else.

• 1:23Chris Williamson?

  Right, but, okay.

• 1:24Speaker 01

  You don't have to drown them, right?

• 1:27Speaker 01

  You can. I kinda love raccoons, but they've, I was growing watermelon, raccoons just destroyed my watermelons.

• 1:33Chris Williamson?

  When were you growing watermelon?

• 1:34Speaker 01

  The summer. I had one, I had one big watermelon forming and I came, I woke up one morning and the raccoon had just torn it to shreds and I was like.

• 1:42Chris Williamson?

  That was like my croc.

• 1:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:44Chris Williamson?

  Except I hadn't had to grow it, I guess.

• 1:45Speaker 01

  I know. No, I was pissed, but I do kinda love raccoons. I was like, alright, well.

• 1:50Chris Williamson?

  I can't believe that Austin allows you to grow watermelon. I don't know where I thought watermelons grew, but I assumed that the climate had to be way more exotic.

• 1:59Speaker 01

  No, you grow watermelon. No, you can grow watermelon here. It's like a short season, you gotta start early, otherwise they get burnt out in the sun.

• 2:04Chris Williamson?

  Otherwise the raccoons come and get it.

• 2:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, I gotta put it behind the fence this time.

• 2:07Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, I keep imagining what it would be like to be in a fight with those raccoons. They've got claws, so I'd look like a lunatic. I've got one croc on now because my, the other croc that they've taken away, like a broomstick for self-defence. He's like, be like, be one of those guys in World War One that's got like a bugle and a sandwich and like, that's what he's sent over the top with.

• 2:26Speaker 01

  My neighbour used to have raccoons for pets. He had two raccoons in a cage. And remember Urkel cereal? I don't know if you were here when that, yeah. It's like, Family Matters, the show, Carl Winslow. Remember Urkel, the black nerd?

• 2:38Chris Williamson?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:39Speaker 01

  He had his own line of cereal for a while. And my neighbour who lived behind me would feed them Urkel cereal. He had his own cereal and they fed him Urkel cereal for like a while in a cage. And it's illegal to keep them as pets, apparently.

• 2:50Chris Williamson?

  The American, like, desire to turn anything into a legitimate commercial opportunity. Yeah, like, you would just.

• 2:58Speaker 01

  I'm telling you, I've never seen Urkelos.

• 3:01Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. Help Urkel find Laura.

• 3:05Chris Williamson?

  What, like, what year was this? Back in 1991, Steve Urkel got his own cereal. Urkelos was basically strawberry and banana flavoured Fruit Loops.

• 3:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, I just remember seeing Urkel cereal next to a raccoon cage and being like, damn, my neighbour's raccoons eat Urkel cereal.

• 3:22Chris Williamson?

  Well.

• 3:23Speaker 01

  That's pretty, I was like a real little boy and I was like, I just stored that fact away in my head. It's, I break it out anytime raccoons come up. They actually love Urkel cereal.

• 3:33Chris Williamson?

  Go to raccoon fact is Urkel cereal? Yeah, I mean, imagine you're already entrapped, your life is in a cage, and now the next thing that happens is you have to eat Urkel cereal. Like, banana flavoured cereal sounds horrible. Is it fake banana is awful. It's the worst thing.

• 3:50Speaker 01

  Fake banana is polarising. I remember banana runts, where I love banana runts.

• 3:55Chris Williamson?

  What's runts? We're doing this America, British.

• 3:58Speaker 01

  It's gonna be tough. Well, the runts are just a hard candy that are like, they're shaped like real fruit, but it's just a hard candy.

• 4:04Chris Williamson?

  Okay.

• 4:05Speaker 01

  So there was one, there was the banana runt. When I was growing up, everyone would be like, dude, get those away from me. And I actually liked the banana runt, so I would trade up all the time. Just end up with a ton of banana runts.

• 4:16Speaker 01

  I have a story for everything, dude. You wanna talk about banana flavouring? We can talk banana flavouring.

• 4:22Chris Williamson?

  The idea of you trading up.

• 4:24Speaker 01

  Nobody wanted them.

• 4:24Chris Williamson?

  Because you get them in a variety pack.

• 4:26Speaker 01

  Yep, every little fruit comes and I'd, everyone like, oh, these banana ones, I'm gonna bro, let's go.

• 4:30Chris Williamson?

  Hit me.

• 4:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, hit me up.

• 4:31Chris Williamson?

  If I can take the watermelon, take the strawberry. Unbelievable.

• 4:35Speaker 01

  Here's a cherry.

• 4:36Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, yeah. I, I wanted, I do wanna teach you about some British stuff. Do you know who Francis Bourgeois is? Okay, so I go to the Grand Tour, which is that thing Jeremy Clarkson did on Amazon. It was about cars and stuff. It was this big car show and then they kinda moved and did this other thing on Amazon. He's a new guy that's taken that, but he's a train guy, he's a trainspotting dude. And I kinda, oh, here we go. So, well, just watch this video.

• 5:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:03Speaker 02

  I'm about to see the largest steam locomotive in the world. I've waited my whole life to see 4014 Big Boy in action. So today is a very important day. With crowds lining the tracks, an unexpected arrival before the main event. There's 2102.

• 5:24Speaker 01

  Oh, no. Brutal angle.

• 5:26Chris Williamson?

  He does it on every video.

• 5:34Speaker 02

  Here it comes.

• 5:34Chris Williamson?

  Oh, no. Oh, no.

• 5:38Speaker 02

  It's Big Boy. At such an important moment, my phone dies and I have to reach for Amy's phone, which is fortunately in my.

• 5:46Speaker 01

  You can have a camera on your fucking head.

• 5:52Speaker 01

  Big Boy.

• 5:59Speaker 02

  A dream come true, but 2102 is about to.

• 6:02Speaker 01

  This was in Pennsylvania, wasn't it?

• 6:04Chris Williamson?

  I think so, yeah.

• 6:05Speaker 01

  Dude, so this was really hot that day and a lot of those guys passed out.

• 6:10Chris Williamson?

  That were working?

• 6:11Speaker 01

  Bunch of fat-legged autistic guys who went down.

• 6:15Speaker 01

  I'm telling, that day, my friends were telling me about this. They were, a bunch of people were standing in the field and they passed out while waiting for Big Boy to come.

• 6:22Chris Williamson?

  Well, I mean.

• 6:23Speaker 01

  He was one among many.

• 6:24Chris Williamson?

  Meanwhile, Francis Bourgeois, he managed to.

• 6:27Speaker 01

  He had to live the dream. I was telling my friend, I was like, if I was there with my kid and they passed out awaiting a train, I would step over them, just walk away. I would just step right over and be like, I'm outta here, man. I'm not, I'm not doing this.

• 6:42Chris Williamson?

  Trainspotting's an odd, but.

• 6:44Speaker 01

  It's very weird.

• 6:44Chris Williamson?

  That particular, like, archetype of person, does, there's like a type of white that only exists in America, but there's also a type of white that only exists in England.

• 6:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:55Chris Williamson?

  And that is a category of white that I don't think that you get in America in the same way.

• 6:59Speaker 01

  We have them and we have trainspotters.

• 7:01Chris Williamson?

  Right, yeah, yeah, I suppose so, but they, they like, present in a different way.

• 7:05Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, for sure. Our, our American trainspotters are a little, probably a little more quiet. Kinda stand there and just watch. That guy was, he was pretty talkative.

• 7:13Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, this, I have no fear that Francis Bourgeois is gonna become a future school shooter.

• 7:20Speaker 01

  You said you have no fear? You don't think he will?

• 7:21Chris Williamson?

  No, I have no fear at all for him.

• 7:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:23Chris Williamson?

  But the, if I was to make him like Frank Bougie, which would be the American equivalent.

• 7:29Speaker 01

  That makes sense.

• 7:30Chris Williamson?

  Watch him.

• 7:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, you'd wanna keep an eye on the internet history for sure.

• 7:36Chris Williamson?

  I can't believe that people passed out.

• 7:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, people passed, it was, it made, when I heard it, I laughed for like 10 straight minutes. That a field full of children just fell out while waiting for a train.

• 7:46Chris Williamson?

  It was the kids that did.

• 7:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was like, yeah, it was young, it just got hot in some of the.

• 7:49Chris Williamson?

  Well, I suppose that.

• 7:51Speaker 01

  Not all of them, but enough went down. It was a bit of a problem. Some of them missed Big Boy. Big Boy was coming and they just went down.

• 7:58Chris Williamson?

  If your kid passes out, it's kind of easy because you know they're not gonna move. So you think, well, they're gonna stay there.

• 8:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:04Chris Williamson?

  They're just gonna stay in that location.

• 8:06Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 8:07Chris Williamson?

  Like, you put a little cool pack on them and then you can go and see Big Boy and then come back.

• 8:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, you, I mean, you're, you're there. They, they were all waiting and they went down and Big Boy just went right by and they came back like, well, what happened?

• 8:18Chris Williamson?

  They just teleported beyond Big Boy?

• 8:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, and he had to just be like, yeah, yeah, you saw it, man. You saw it.

• 8:23Chris Williamson?

  I promise, I promise you. Like, child memory was working.

• 8:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:27Chris Williamson?

  But yeah, there's like, there's two, there's basically two, I think, categories of stereotypical British person. And one is Francis Bourgeois. And then the other one, I don't know that you've seen British people going Bosch on the internet? So this is a guy called Big John and he does like takeaway reviews. And this is, oh, right, okay, this is him. This is the guy.

• 8:49Speaker 03

  Could I have two pie, one mash twice, please?

• 8:53Chris Williamson?

  So he's like, kind of a food reviewer, I guess? And he's getting it.

• 9:00Chris Williamson?

  Pies and, Matt, don't say that.

• 9:03Chris Williamson?

  Don't do that, don't do that. There's two, there's two colours on that plate.

• 9:08Speaker 03

  No, no eels today, no eels today. The eels can save.

• 9:11Chris Williamson?

  Oh, he's being asked if he wants eels.

• 9:14Speaker 03

  Oh, thank you.

• 9:15Chris Williamson?

  That's.

• 9:17Speaker 03

  Right, Robin's pie, mash in Romford.

• 9:19Chris Williamson?

  The food of my people.

• 9:20Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 9:23Speaker 01

  What do you think about that?

• 9:24Speaker 03

  Turn your pies over, chili vinegar, chili's in there. All over the pies, all over the liquor, all over the mash. That's your salt.

• 9:35Chris Williamson?

  Apparently a dash of salt.

• 9:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, you ready?

• 9:38Chris Williamson?

  Like that's.

• 9:41Chris Williamson?

  I love the idea of eating with just a spoon and a fork, but like the knife is totally irrelevant.

• 9:49Speaker 01

  It is funny. I have a friend who's English and he'll send me the pictures of the classic British breakfast and I'm like, ew.

• 9:56Chris Williamson?

  What don't you like about it?

• 9:56Speaker 01

  The sausage and tomatoes and beans. It's like bacon, bacon, potatoes, eggs. No beans, no, you know, you don't want tomatoes and it's not, it's not really appetizing when I see it.

• 10:07Chris Williamson?

  I will stand on business with the beans, like hard. I'm sorry.

• 10:12Speaker 01

  First thing in the morning?

• 10:13Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 10:13Speaker 01

  You're farting all day. You're, I'd be.

• 10:16Chris Williamson?

  That's a power move.

• 10:16Speaker 01

  True.

• 10:20Chris Williamson?

  The remainder of the day is.

• 10:22Speaker 01

  Just destroying a room at 10 a.m.

• 10:24Chris Williamson?

  Loaded the magazine.

• 10:25Speaker 01

  True.

• 10:25Chris Williamson?

  For the remainder of the day.

• 10:26Speaker 01

  You're ready all day. True. That's not bad. Then they're out by the time you go to bed and you're not farting and you're, yeah, it's not bad.

• 10:31Chris Williamson?

  Correct.

• 10:31Speaker 01

  I'm more of a.

• 10:32Chris Williamson?

  If you invert it.

• 10:33Speaker 01

  I'm more of a raccoon when it comes to farting. I'm nocturnal. I'm all night, all night, dude. I'm farting all night. It's terrible. It's actually kind of, I'm concerned. It's been like, usually you'll get it one day out of the week. I've been on like a four day stretch where I'm like, I need to change something. I need to change something now.

• 10:47Chris Williamson?

  There's um, machine like apps for sleep tracking that record when you make noises or move. I'd fucking love to hear what yours would be because yours would be broken by either like snoring or rustling or something, or just straight ripping.

• 11:01Speaker 01

  Could be.

• 11:03Speaker 01

  That is, that's pretty crazy. So they, they actually track the noises?

• 11:05Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. So there's when it's silent or ambient noise or whatever, and then it just turns on the recorder. Well, it's to work out whether you're snoring and stuff, um, or talking in your sleep. So.

• 11:15Speaker 01

  I might have to get that.

• 11:16Chris Williamson?

  That'd be sick. And then you could make a compilation of all of your favorite farts.

• 11:19Speaker 01

  Oh, what, what, what would you make? Not the nighttime ones be awesome.

• 11:25Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. You're like, you know, you know what, missing your own fart while you're asleep is like, it's like being a child that passes out whilst watching Big Boy. You're like, I missed it.

• 11:33Speaker 01

  True.

• 11:33Chris Williamson?

  This was the entire reason for me eating those beans at night.

• 11:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, all the waste.

• 11:37Chris Williamson?

  And I didn't, I wasn't even there for it. Like my, my mom got to see it or whatever. Like, you know, like the wife got to see it. She was a part of it.

• 11:45Speaker 01

  Have you, have you ever woken a woman out of sleep because you farted in bed? Yeah.

• 11:50Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 11:51Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's not a good feeling.

• 11:52Chris Williamson?

  There's a level.

• 11:53Speaker 01

  I thought, I thought.

• 11:56Chris Williamson?

  There is a level of like shame and pride. It's equal parts shame and pride.

• 12:01Speaker 01

  Well, it's so funny, but you also, you're like, yeah, that's a horrible way to wake up.

• 12:04Chris Williamson?

  To apologize. I'm so sorry.

• 12:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've done it. I've done it before.

• 12:09Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. The old fart alarm?

• 12:10Speaker 01

  Yeah. Or not even, I'm saying not audio. I'm talking wake by smell. I've woken by smell before and that's when you're like.

• 12:17Chris Williamson?

  Wake by smell is crazy.

• 12:18Speaker 01

  Wake by smell is pretty, it's pretty devastating. And she was in such deep sleep, just my wife. She was in such deep sleep, she forgot. So I had a good like four days where I was like, oh my God, you didn't even mention that.

• 12:28Chris Williamson?

  I got off scot free. And then the memory came back. Did you tell her?

• 12:31Speaker 01

  I brought, eventually I brought it. She was like, holy fuck, I forgot about that. I was like, yeah, my bad.

• 12:34Chris Williamson?

  You told her about the fart alarm?

• 12:36Speaker 01

  It was too.

• 12:36Chris Williamson?

  Wake by smell fart alarm?

• 12:37Speaker 01

  I was like, you have to remember that. I can't believe you don't remember this. And then she was like, ew, I do remember that. That was gross. And I was like, yeah, my bad.

• 12:44Chris Williamson?

  Dude, you admitted to the crime.

• 12:45Speaker 01

  I had, I dude, I had to know. I'm like, how did you just champ that?

• 12:53Speaker 01

  It was like, kind of bothered me. I kind of, actually I wanted my penance. That's what it was. I was like, I can't get away with that. I wanted to atone, but I needed her to remember.

• 13:02Chris Williamson?

  Right. It's a combination of like, I want you to recognize just the power in case in future I need to like hold it over you. You think, well.

• 13:09Speaker 01

  No, I turned myself in. It was like a guy who kills somebody and just can't live with it. I was like, I got away with it and I was like, I gotta go to the authorities. I gotta report. I gotta, I gotta turn myself in.

• 13:18Chris Williamson?

  What is the wake up of someone who's woken by a, a smell that's so noxious?

• 13:22Speaker 01

  It's, it's like, eyes are still closed. I saw the whole thing. Eyes are still closed. You go, ah, it's just like a groan. It's like groaning into consciousness and then you go, ah, and then going back under. And I was like, oh my God, that was the craziest thing I've ever seen.

• 13:44Speaker 01

  It's like coming into hell, you know? And then you just go back under. It was really upsetting. Honestly, I saw that. I was like, holy shit.

• 13:51Chris Williamson?

  I'm in so much trouble when I wake up and then you got off scot free and then put yourself.

• 13:56Speaker 01

  Two days went by and I was, I was like telling everyone knew about it. Finally, I was just like. I was like, I gotta tell her. I can't, I can't. I have to like, let her know that that happened.

• 14:05Chris Williamson?

  The idea of like telling it in pride behind the scenes as well, like dude, I guess what I managed to achieve last night. Fucking sick.

• 14:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was hopefully one on one. That was the only time.

• 14:17Chris Williamson?

  No, I thought you meant by sound. Cause you can rip a, rip one that's loud enough where he's like.

• 14:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, you can get that.

• 14:22Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. But it's the slow, I wonder how many breaths it takes. It's going to take like, the first one's going to hit and, but you're going to hope that the body's going to hope that when it gets exhaled, it's not going to get hit again. And then the crescendo, I think it's probably a two breath, a two breath fart alarm.

• 14:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's one that's kind of like, but apparently I think, I could be wrong, but I think your amygdala is like really close to where smells come. So they're linked. So she like, that was a threat immediately. That's like really linked with threat. I think smells. Swear to God.

• 14:53Chris Williamson?

  Wake by, the wake by fart alarm?

• 14:55Speaker 01

  She was, it was, she was terrified.

• 14:56Chris Williamson?

  Fuck me. That is true. That is, that is very true. I went to, um, I went to the PBR. I saw Shane at the, the, the bull riding thing. Which is weird because again, talking about very British things and also very American things. It's like close to about as American as you can get.

• 15:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:14Chris Williamson?

  But it is a arena of people hoping that somebody gets injured by an animal that weighs like a few thousand pounds.

• 15:25Chris Williamson?

  It's a very strange sport to watch and um,

• 15:30Chris Williamson?

  not a massive amount of racial diversity in the audience.

• 15:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:34Chris Williamson?

  Uh, and then Nelly played.

• 15:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:36Chris Williamson?

  So he kind of offset it toward the end. Uh, but yeah, PBR was crazy. That was like, that was a very interesting experience.

• 15:43Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. That, uh, I, I only ever watched it on TV, but bull riding, I like bull riding compared to bull fighting.

• 15:50Chris Williamson?

  Bull fighting seems like one of the meanest, is so mean.

• 15:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. I just learned they pre-stab them. The bulls are pre-stabbed before they even, you fight the bull.

• 15:59Chris Williamson?

  Like that scene in Gladiator, where they like shiv him before he goes out. That's all of the bulls.

• 16:04Speaker 01

  Exactly. Like they just poke them up a couple of times. They're gotta get out there.

• 16:07Chris Williamson?

  So then weaker?

• 16:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:09Chris Williamson?

  I found out that the reason that the capes, what's that called?

• 16:13Speaker 01

  The, oh, I don't know.

• 16:14Chris Williamson?

  The red rag to a bull thing. The reason that it's red isn't because bulls see red and get angry. It's to hide the blood as the bulls are run past.

• 16:23Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 16:23Chris Williamson?

  Because otherwise if you had a white sheet or something.

• 16:26Speaker 01

  It would look horrible.

• 16:27Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. It would just be like marked with loads of bull blood.

• 16:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's, I didn't even know that.

• 16:32Chris Williamson?

  That's why. That's what it's to hide the blood. And that makes sense because they've been pre-stabbed.

• 16:37Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh, that makes sense. Yeah. I, I thought my whole life, I thought like, if I was wearing, I, I would like been around bulls a couple of times and I would always scan like, bro, I hope I'm not wearing any red. They're going to fucking charge me. I had a bull actually that also lived behind me. We had a bull that just was.

• 16:53Chris Williamson?

  Why the fuck did you live?

• 16:54Speaker 01

  I lived on it. So my dad and his brother, uh, bought a piece of property out in like the suburbs of Philadelphia, but it was like, when we moved out there, it was like really rural. Like there was nobody out there. There's no sidewalks. But they bought this like plot of land. And so they each had a house and they, you know, they like a spread. We were right, I was right next to one of my cousins. And then behind us was this like other house up there. So they just rented it out to this guy. And he had like, that was a guy who had the raccoons in the cages. So he had, he had like animals. He had like a weird kind of, he had like a barn. There was horses, you know?

• 17:26Chris Williamson?

  Great cereal collection.

• 17:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. Great cereal. And he had, um, he had a bull for a while and we had, it was a old apple orchard, but the apples trees like dried up. So they had only made crab apples. So me and my cousins would sit up in the trees and just shoot this bull. With a, with a, you know, little slingshot with crab apples all the time. And it got so aggressive and like so nuts. We had to get, they had to get rid of it. Cause we were just sitting up there and tormented all, I was like nine years old. We would sit there and go boom and hit it with like, and it would just shake. And it became, they were like, we gotta get rid of that thing.

• 17:54Chris Williamson?

  You got PTSD from being hit by these like little crab apples.

• 17:57Speaker 01

  All day long.

• 17:58Chris Williamson?

  Could you imagine if you were a bull and you didn't understand how physics and gravity works? And you're like, that tree is throwing.

• 18:06Chris Williamson?

  Apples at me, like that tree is my mortal enemy. It keeps on pinging me with crab apples all day.

• 18:12Speaker 01

  And there were those, like, I don't know if you had those, like, real nice slingshots. They would, like, hold, they were like, you'd pull them back, but they had like almost a wrist brace, so you could really rip those things back.

• 18:20Chris Williamson?

  You were hitting it with high velocity crab apples.

• 18:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, very hard.

• 18:23Chris Williamson?

  Explosion upon impact. And then bowls got, you know, when you shoot someone in paintball and it's just got loads of marks all over its back.

• 18:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, we were, and again, it's like that, things started getting nasty and like, we had to get rid of it. Got two cantankers. So now I'm like, maybe they just got rid of it, but I'm pretty sure we fired that thing up. Cause it was, we just like taunt it and fuck with it all the time.

• 18:40Chris Williamson?

  Really nice natured until, maybe that would be a good, because the owner, CEO guy of the PBR was in the, the area that we were, and obviously I have no idea what's going on. I don't know how the scoring system works. I don't know anything. And he loves bowl riding, absolutely loves bowl riding. And he wrote the rules. So I'm like just harassing him autistically about any, like, how does this happen? And what's it, and how do they train the bowls and stuff like that? But I didn't realize that the people that own the bowls, they have so much pride and like, no one's ever ridden, like this element have got a bowl and it's called riding salty. So you can just name it whatever you want.

• 19:17Speaker 01

  That's awesome.

• 19:19Chris Williamson?

  Riding salty and no one's ever ridden it, some shit like that. It's like, oh, this is, it's the best rider in the world versus the hardest bowl in the world. And there's kind of these matchups.

• 19:27Speaker 01

  Damn.

• 19:28Chris Williamson?

  They pair them up. And then there's coaches on the teams of the riders who know what way the bowl turns. And they put a guy that's like really good in the clockwise position or whatever. It's like matching fighters up against other fighters or like, I don't know, a sport where you go, well, the guy that's on the left wing, he's a little bit slow when he cuts in. So if you put a guy that's right footed on that. And there's squads and there's training and they've got tactics. And I was like, I just see a guy holding on to a bowl.

• 19:53Speaker 01

  That's what I thought. I didn't know they have teams too. They have a bunch of teams.

• 19:56Chris Williamson?

  Yep. Like each city's got a different team. And then the city that you're in gets to be the final one. And there's walkout music. And like each one, each, each guy comes out to different walkout music. It was sick.

• 20:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, it sounds awesome.

• 20:07Chris Williamson?

  It was really good. A quick aside, you've probably heard me talk about Element before, and that's because I've started every single morning the same way for the last five years now, which is a cold glass of water with Element in it. Element is an electrolyte drink mixed with everything that you need and nothing that you don't. It's a science-backed electrolyte ratio of sodium, potassium and magnesium. No sugar, no coloring, no artificial ingredients. It reduces muscle cramps and fatigue, supports brain function and helps to regulate your appetite throughout the day. I genuinely notice the difference when I take it versus when I don't, which is why I don't shut up about it. And also why it's used by everyone from Dr. Andrew Huberman to Olympic athletes and FBI sniper teams. The, the good sniper teams, not the bad ones. Also, they have a no questions asked refund policy. So if you don't like it for any reason, they'll just

• 20:49Chris Williamson?

  give you your money back. Plus they offer free shipping in the US. Right now you can get a free sample pack of Element's most popular flavors with your first purchase by going to the link in the description below, heading to drinklmnt.com slash modern wisdom. That's drinklmnt.com slash

• 21:06Chris Williamson?

  modern wisdom.

• 21:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, we, I did, I haven't done much super like Texas stuff. I did the two-step dance lessons. Have you seen that before?

• 21:14Chris Williamson?

  I've seen it.

• 21:15Speaker 01

  The broken wheel.

• 21:16Chris Williamson?

  What's that?

• 21:17Speaker 01

  You can do, you can go in there and take lessons for two-step and it's this old lady runs it. And I honestly was like, it takes a lot to kind of astonish me when people are like doing certain things. Dude, she apparently can just grab ladies asses and like, so she was giving, I shouldn't say this, but we were in there and she would, she'd be like, come out here and dance with me, young lady. And she'd be like, God, your ass is flatter than cardboard and just smack. Like it was insane. She was just grabbing and smacking ladies asses and just, I mean, you know, any kind of racial thing, she would throw that in there too, just to like flavor it up. She was, I was sitting there like, bro, this is insane. And everyone was like, ah, this is cute.

• 21:55Chris Williamson?

  I've been transported back to the 1950s. There's a level of bigotry that you just, like when people get beyond a certain age, they just get a pass for it all.

• 22:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, you have to let this lady cook. It was really good. Cause it was, it was a lot of, it was a, a good amount of like Asian tourists came and she was having a field day with them.

• 22:13Speaker 01

  It was wild. There's nothing there for me to grab. You have no ass on you. Look at where you from? Vietnam? Get out of the way. And I was like,

• 22:22Chris Williamson?

  She thinks the war's still going.

• 22:25Speaker 01

  But it was.

• 22:25Chris Williamson?

  They know our enemy?

• 22:26Speaker 01

  It was fun. It was fun to see. It also was nice. It brings everyone down. It's like, yeah, let her, let her do her thing. Brings everyone down to like a, you know.

• 22:32Chris Williamson?

  That's what being British is like, actually. That, that level of like insulting of everyone. Were you any good? Is it hard?

• 22:38Speaker 01

  Two-step? No, I wasn't very, I was all right. It's, it's pretty easy, honestly.

• 22:43Chris Williamson?

  Right.

• 22:43Speaker 01

  But it's all about, you have to kind of like, it's like easy to do, but once you have like 30 people on the dance floor, everyone, you don't know which way anyone's going. So it's, it's a, and then there's people who are like actually really, really good at it. And you're like,

• 22:53Chris Williamson?

  I'm in the way now.

• 22:55Speaker 01

  Do I?

• 22:55Chris Williamson?

  You're, you're in the way.

• 22:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're just in their way. They're like whipping people around and throwing them. And it's also very important that you have to lead your partner. And it's like, I'm horrible, horrible at dancing. So I'm kind of like trying to, I'm stepping on her feet the whole time. And I'm like, actually I'm in charge. Be quiet. Don't move. And it's like,

• 23:12Speaker 01

  she said, the ladies grabbing asses said, I'm in charge. And it was, uh, yeah, I didn't, I,

• 23:16Chris Williamson?

  You don't want to be over there with the Asians. I'm not going to make you sit down on the fucking substitutes bench.

• 23:22Speaker 01

  Yeah. So it was fun. I would definitely go back. It's def, it's a, it's a fun night. You go there, especially if you roll their stag. I mean, dude, ratio is in your favor. It's mostly.

• 23:31Chris Williamson?

  How many people are going on their own?

• 23:34Speaker 01

  There was a couple. There's a lot of women actually go.

• 23:36Chris Williamson?

  But they're going as girly group.

• 23:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:38Chris Williamson?

  Thing.

• 23:38Speaker 01

  But you need a male partner.

• 23:39Chris Williamson?

  Hard to peel off a chick from a group of chicks though.

• 23:42Speaker 01

  But in the, in a dance, in a formal, in a formalized dance setting, easy as, it's like as easy as it gets.

• 23:47Chris Williamson?

  Of course, because they've got legitimacy to leave the friends at least for a bit.

• 23:51Speaker 01

  Yeah. And there's that, there's that like inner feminine kind of rivalry where it's like now whoever you ask to dance is like, oh,

• 23:57Chris Williamson?

  Because of.

• 23:57Speaker 01

  Not them. Yes.

• 23:58Chris Williamson?

  Because of the ratio. Because of the ratio.

• 24:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. It puts them, it really throws them into like an upside down world where you, now you're the commodity. You get to be like, my lady.

• 24:08Speaker 01

  I was peeping all this with my wife. I was like, this is great.

• 24:11Chris Williamson?

  Watching the, watching the dynamic go on. Yeah. As you step on her feet. It is going to be hard though. If you're not good at dancing and you're like, okay, I need to do this thing. I need to lead them. You said you need to navigate the traffic of the rest of the room as well. And you're trying to like lay down some game at the same time. Plus get the phone out. Be like, you know, can you do the thing? Do the nutty thing, like take your number before I'm going, like spinning around and stuff.

• 24:33Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, you have to go a couple of times. There's a lot of old men that go there and they just like, they're like experts at it. And they just kind of twirl young chicks around for like two hours at a time. And then also the instructor kind of feeds them like, no, if you see Dale, he'll spin you around. Are you dizzy? Don't, don't be shy. And she kind of like feeds him over. It's pretty wild.

• 24:53Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. Like this does begin, like, sounds like it's going to be a Netflix documentary. It's like one of those ashrams where like some yogi that developed a new type of yoga, but all of his disciples were the ones that were feeding in the new followers.

• 25:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:07Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 25:07Speaker 01

  They, yeah, like the NXIVM cult.

• 25:09Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. That's, what's that one? What's that?

• 25:11Speaker 01

  That was the, uh, God, who was that guy? He was, he was like branding chicks. He was getting chicks bred. Yeah. He was just ser, yeah. Keith Van Nier, he had the NXIVM cult here in America where I don't even know what he did really. It was just, he said this cult, and then the, the thing he did that was genius, obviously he's a cult leader. He's having sex with all the women in the cult. There's married couples. So he instituted a rule where everybody has to kiss on the lips when they greet each other. So that way he could just kiss every girl on the lips and no one, they wouldn't know that he was fucking all of them. It was pretty, kind of an ingenious move.

• 25:40Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. That's, well, I mean, what's interesting is that he decided to brand the women in the cult as opposed to just using crab apples in a slingshot. Could have just got them from way further away.

• 25:53Speaker 01

  Truly, it could have, that could have came from anywhere.

• 25:54Chris Williamson?

  If he got really good with, he could have written something on the side of it.

• 25:57Speaker 01

  True.

• 25:58Chris Williamson?

  That would have been really good.

• 25:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, he, uh, yeah, he was branding. Apparently it all, you get in trouble. He got in trouble for sex trafficking. So whenever you move a lady across state lines to have sex with her, that's when it's like,

• 26:08Chris Williamson?

  Isn't that crazy?

• 26:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:10Chris Williamson?

  That was the thing. Who was it that?

• 26:11Speaker 01

  Under false pretenses. That's the key term.

• 26:13Chris Williamson?

  Who was it that got fully diddled for that across state lines, trafficking women across state lines thing recently? There was some big case. And that was the main, tons and tons and tons and tons. No, Epstein?

• 26:27Speaker 01

  Epstein or Diddy?

• 26:28Chris Williamson?

  It was Diddy.

• 26:29Speaker 01

  Diddy, yeah. You said diddle too. It was just funny. Yeah. It was, it was, it was, uh, it was Diddy. They get you. I don't know if he actually got charged for sex trafficking, but that was the one they were trying to.

• 26:38Chris Williamson?

  Across state lines?

• 26:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. But under false pretenses.

• 26:41Chris Williamson?

  But what, what's the issue with the state lines thing? Why is that?

• 26:45Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 26:45Chris Williamson?

  So under false pretenses within the state is fine?

• 26:48Speaker 01

  I think so.

• 26:48Chris Williamson?

  So I get into a motel that's just across.

• 26:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. If you can trick a woman, if you're in Texas, you can trick Texas women. If you trick a woman in Oklahoma, fuck, you're going to jail. And it's, it's all false. It's a very vague thing. Uh, that's, yeah. It's what people get in trouble for. Cause it's like, if you lure someone here saying, hey, I have a job for you and they travel and then, I don't know, you brand them and keep them like your slave in the base, then you get in super big trouble for it.

• 27:13Chris Williamson?

  Double.

• 27:13Speaker 01

  Making them go across.

• 27:14Chris Williamson?

  Double trouble. Yeah. And worst of all, he made them go to Oklahoma.

• 27:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:19Chris Williamson?

  It's like, oh my God, we must take him to jail. The guy's a monster.

• 27:22Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's a very weird rule. I've always thought about it. It's a, it's a, it's a, it's one of those things that it's like, it's really weird.

• 27:27Chris Williamson?

  Can you, uh, chat GPT? Why, why is it, why is it cross state lines for, what is it?

• 27:34Speaker 01

  Sex trafficking.

• 27:34Chris Williamson?

  Sex, well,

• 27:37Chris Williamson?

  it's like trying to work out why sex trafficking is so bad, dot, dot, dot, across state lines.

• 27:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:42Chris Williamson?

  Just seems like, well, it's, you know, within state lines, it's not great.

• 27:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's just one of those extra charges. Like an enhancement they toss on you.

• 27:49Chris Williamson?

  It's like an upgrade. Do you want to go super large on the, on the Happy Meal supersized it?

• 27:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. I don't, I don't know. It's, it's a, but it's one of those things I think that is very important in these cases where that they, if they can get you on that, that's how they kind of get you.

• 28:00Chris Williamson?

  Have you been, oh, here we go. Crossing state lines isn't inherently considered more evil than committing state, sex trafficking within one state. The reason it's treated more seriously in US law, it's largely about jurisdiction and federal authority. Not greater moral blame.

• 28:17Chris Williamson?

  Oh, because it's like.

• 28:18Speaker 01

  Well, you get higher penalties. That's what they're saying.

• 28:22Chris Williamson?

  Someone can be prosecuted prosecuted for sex trafficking, even if every act occurred within a single state, as long as the conduct has the required connection to interstate commerce.

• 28:31Speaker 01

  Ah.

• 28:32Chris Williamson?

  Oh, hang on a second. So.

• 28:33Speaker 01

  That brings the FBI in.

• 28:35Chris Williamson?

  But so sex trafficking, under current federal law, someone can be prosecuted for sex trafficking, even if every act occurred in a single state, as long as the conduct has the required connection to interstate commerce. So if it doesn't, if you manage to find a locally owned motel and you don't use a payment processor that like roots it through fucking Delaware or something, you're paying cash, like sex trafficking is just free. That seems like a loophole that needs to be closed.

• 28:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, they get you for tax evasion then.

• 29:01Chris Williamson?

  Oh, okay. Yeah. Where did that cash come from?

• 29:05Chris Williamson?

  Have you seen this Day John Love thing, this case that's everywhere?

• 29:08Speaker 01

  Who's, was that the guy? Who's that?

• 29:10Chris Williamson?

  The fake football player from the 49ers?

• 29:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Who's been going around saying, I, I caught that. I was like, I was actually doing a podcast. I went to the bathroom and I was like checking my phone. I saw someone I know is like, one of the influencers I follow is just kind of like, oh, man, I almost, thank God I didn't pay this guy. And I didn't even know he wasn't a player. I'm like, damn, why was he asking that guy for 200,000 bucks? And I came back and it was like, yeah, that was

• 29:32Chris Williamson?

  It was a dude?

• 29:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:34Chris Williamson?

  That said this?

• 29:34Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 29:35Chris Williamson?

  So he was trying to dattle men and women.

• 29:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:37Chris Williamson?

  Especially, especially women.

• 29:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think he was really going for the women's money. But yeah, there was a guy influencer I know who's like a health guy and he got like, they tried to go for him.

• 29:46Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. So he was.

• 29:47Speaker 01

  He went for 200,000. He's like, give me 200K and I'll like promote your, you know, electrolytes or whatever.

• 29:53Chris Williamson?

  I think he didn't have that many followers on, it wasn't a huge. So yeah, for the people that don't know, this guy pretended to be a 49ers player.

• 30:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:00Chris Williamson?

  And he was.

• 30:01Speaker 01

  Starting wide receiver.

• 30:02Chris Williamson?

  Oh, here we go. Uh, 35 year old Day John Love, who federal authorities say faked an entire NFL career as a 49ers wide receiver to scam others, has been arrested and charged with defrauding over 26 women out of more than 1.3 million dollars. Love allegedly met women through dating apps, convinced many they were in a legitimate romantic relationships with him, portrayed himself as either a wealthy NFL player or a successful real estate investor. Fake 49ers, fake Instagram themed presents, fake banks and investors. I think he had like, an 18 year old that he would put on FaceTime and was like, oh, this is my investment advisor. And it's just like one of his friends.

• 30:41Speaker 01

  Really?

• 30:41Chris Williamson?

  Who's 18 years old. And, uh, yeah, he, one, one woman lost around 87,000 and helped him get a McLaren to qualify for the McLaren. He made her a fake pay stub saying she earned about 50K a month. Another woman gave him seven grand for an apartment he never got for. Another gave him around 30 grand for a Mercedes. After a while, you just think like, these people kind of deserve it.

• 31:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. The, the, well, the romance scams are really, really messed up. Also, working, him working out on the beach is hilarious. Just a football helmet on the beach is like, that's one that I'd even catch. Like, hold on a second. I haven't, you don't see.

• 31:14Chris Williamson?

  Me, yeah. I don't remember Tom Brady.

• 31:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:22Chris Williamson?

  Just in swim shorts?

• 31:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like a regular football pad.

• 31:29Chris Williamson?

  It's a memor, it's a, it's a memorabilia helmet, presumably. Is there not one of him? I swear he's got his helmet like in the car at some point. Have a look in here. Keep going.

• 31:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, that one's hilarious.

• 31:41Chris Williamson?

  Go back.

• 31:44Chris Williamson?

  It's him like, there it is. You gotta, gotta have the helmet. I'm just popping the helmet in the passenger seat. Why is it not in your bag?

• 31:51Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. This, uh, you know what this is? This is, uh, karma from the bad men of the world for the Lindsay Clancy case. This is the, them trying to come back around. This is like some dude.

• 32:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:07Chris Williamson?

  Like comically going like, there's something that women are getting complained about at, at, at the moment. I'm gonna, I'll even the stakes and I'll give us something that men can be complained about.

• 32:15Speaker 01

  Just so I'm sure Clancy's the lady who everyone's trying to like get her out of jail right now. Protesters, dude.

• 32:20Chris Williamson?

  Bro, it's a mistrial.

• 32:21Speaker 01

  That's a rough look. It's a, it is a mistrial?

• 32:23Chris Williamson?

  It's a mistrial. One guy, one supposedly, allegedly, one male juror held out for six days. It was 11, one. And the one juror was like, no, not murder.

• 32:37Speaker 01

  Not doing it.

• 32:38Chris Williamson?

  Mistrial. So just, she's like free at the moment.

• 32:43Speaker 01

  What?

• 32:44Chris Williamson?

  Or is she on bail? Was she on bail?

• 32:47Chris Williamson?

  Well, is she, has she, can you work out if she's got bail or not? But mistrial. So they've got to do, they've got to run it back.

• 32:52Speaker 01

  Do it again.

• 32:54Chris Williamson?

  They've got, this whole thing has got to happen again, at least again, or maybe go up to some.

• 32:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:58Chris Williamson?

  Bigger court.

• 32:59Speaker 01

  Well, dude, it's, I, so I was actually reading about this, uh, last night. I didn't realize, first of all, it happened like three years ago, three or four years ago. The husband's already ma, he's remarried.

• 33:08Chris Williamson?

  But the weird thing is, it's been three years is quite a long time.

• 33:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:12Chris Williamson?

  It's not a long time to get over something traumatic. But for everyone that I didn't, I'd never heard Lindsay Clancy's name until three weeks ago.

• 33:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:18Chris Williamson?

  And for him, this is part of, I think about where you were three years ago, three and a half years ago. You're like, that was quite a long time ago.

• 33:24Speaker 01

  It was a while, but it's like, yeah, but I think, I think he's just like, I could be wrong. I think he just like works in an office. Sounds like an office job. Yeah, just sounds like an office job. That would be, that'd be insane.

• 33:33Chris Williamson?

  I had a psychiatrist, uh, earlier on this week, and he worked in the ward where she was discharged from. He like knows the doctors that prescribed her all of the medications, the people that looked after her cat, everything. And there's a little bit, I think, especially a lot of guys sort of defaulted to, she killed her kids. Like, yeah. Uh, and then there was a little bit of me as he was explaining, it was an hour of him just explaining the deep neuroscience of what happened with the pharmacology and, and, and, um, what happens with the psychosis and how all encompassing and, and like totally compelling it is. And basically your agency is taken away from you. They use the example, talking of like farting and shedding. You use the example of, you know, when you go to the bathroom and you

• 34:15Chris Williamson?

  take a dump and you're like, one, huh, one wipe wasn't enough. Like, I need to go again. And you don't even think about it. You just do it. So that's kind of what psychosis is like. You don't even think about it. You kind of just get compelled. So he's, an hour of him explaining it to me. And as he was doing it, there was a little bit of me that was thinking, this is, I thought I had my position. And now you have decided to like, just pull the pin on this grenade. And now I, now I'm all conflicted again. And now I'm in, I'm, now I'm with everyone else. It's like, I don't know what the, how do we deal with this as a society?

• 34:47Speaker 01

  Here's the thing to me. It's, it's like, yeah, it is, it sucks. It's like the whole situation sucks. The poor, I like really felt bad for the dad. I was reading about him last night. Like, damn, this guy's actually just started his life over. I'm like, that sounds sad. And then you have the lady who was like, yeah, she, you know, strangled her children to death and you know, maybe she was in psychosis. It, the thing too is like, if she had been a meth addict and got high on meth and then killed her kids, everyone would be like, yeah, throw the book at her. Since I guess she's trying to get, you know, help or whatever, it's slightly different. My, my only problem is when like, is you get, you have people now who, even like neuroscience types who are like, free will's an illusion. We don't have free will. It's just all, it's all expression of genetics. And it's like, okay, well, if that's the case, and somebody does this, if they're just essentially like

• 35:31Speaker 01

  a lump of meat, just, why not just discard of them? You know what I mean? Cause if we have, there's no free will and people are just gonna do this kind of thing, which I don't think is her case really, cause there's like the medication and psychosis, but I don't, I think you, I think you gotta park, I say, I think you just gotta park those people forever. It's like, look, this isn't fair. This sucks.

• 35:49Chris Williamson?

  That their thing is, she is going to be parked forever. It's, is she going to be parked with culpability? Or is she going to be parked with, uh, an excuse or a reason, right? It's like, she's gonna be.

• 36:00Speaker 01

  Well, if she gets the psychosis, I think she's, uh, mandatory, like psychiatric asylum for a year, like a per year at a time with her case to be reviewed every year. So there's a world.

• 36:12Chris Williamson?

  I didn't know that.

• 36:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think she'll only be held for a year. I could be wrong, but I think she'll only be held for a year.

• 36:16Chris Williamson?

  Before she gets reviewed.

• 36:17Speaker 01

  And gets reassessed. And they could keep her forever. They could reassess her every year. She could get out. So it's one of those things where it's like, even, even if it's pure psychosis, if someone can fall into that level of psychosis, and obviously it's on record, it's like, yo, you kind of gotta be.

• 36:31Chris Williamson?

  She's a distinctive looking lady as well. It's gonna be very hard to come out even in five years' time and not, not be.

• 36:38Speaker 01

  Well, she's paralyzed too, right?

• 36:41Chris Williamson?

  That as well.

• 36:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:42Chris Williamson?

  But all of that together.

• 36:43Speaker 01

  It's, it's, I think the saddest thing that's, it's like, not the saddest thing that's ever happened.

• 36:47Chris Williamson?

  Really fucking sad.

• 36:48Speaker 01

  But it's as close to as sad as it gets.

• 36:50Chris Williamson?

  Doesn't, I mean, dead kids, suicide attempt, paralysis, like postpartum depression, public scrutiny, loads of women wearing pink. It's, it's OJ Simpson for white women. That's what it is.

• 37:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:04Chris Williamson?

  That's exactly what it is.

• 37:08Speaker 01

  It's also, again, it's one of those things where it's like, I'd love to ask the protesting ladies, like, where do you want to see happen in this? You, you want to have her live with you? Like, what are, what are we talking about? What are we, are you gonna take care of this lady? You know, cause she's like, the, the state failed her, put her in the hands of state mental care. It's like, maybe not. If the state failed so badly, cause that's where she's going back to. You gotta park her. You gotta give her the Bane treatment, dude. And it's like sad.

• 37:34Chris Williamson?

  Bottom of a well?

• 37:36Speaker 01

  You gotta just be chained. Yeah. Or yeah.

• 37:39Chris Williamson?

  Bulk her up, feed a pizza for a while.

• 37:43Speaker 01

  Dude, it's so fucked up. And I did the same thing. I heard about that. I'm like, fuck that lady, dude. And then you read about it. You're like, God, that's so fucking sad. But it's also like, she's a sick ticket, dude. It's like, you get, once you strangle your children in the basement, it's like, all bets are off in my book. It's like, it's just, it's sad. It's fucked up. There's complexity to it, but it's like.

• 38:01Chris Williamson?

  You know what else is interesting? I think uh, you look at the gender split of support for and against, it's almost exclusively women who are in support. But not necessarily only men that are against, because uh, mothers kind of get split into two groups. Cause some of the mothers, especially the ones that have been through postpartum, go, wow, that was fucking rough. That was really hard. And maybe, I think Dr. K gave me the stats. He says about three in 10,000 get postpartum psychosis. And of the psychosis sufferers, 5% get homicidal ideation thought. Yeah. So it's like a chunk of a chunk of a chunk like it, but yeah, because there's

• 38:44Chris Williamson?

  60,000 births a day in the US. The law of large numbers means it's like one person, every one lady every day. Who's maybe gonna have this homicidal thoughts with the psychosis and all the rest of this stuff. He's like, you know, explaining it to me and going through all of this. But what that means is there's some women who will see the beauty and the delicate nature of their children and just get the total tiger mum, mother bear. Like, I can't believe that this would happen aggression. And then there's another group of ladies who are gonna think I was close to feeling down and bad and I wasn't myself. So even that is kind of split into two different groups. It is, it, stuff like this. I mean, you, do you ever think when situations like this occur?

• 39:29Chris Williamson?

  Netflix, all of the executives must just be going like, yes, fucking come on.

• 39:35Speaker 01

  Here's six more hours of content.

• 39:37Chris Williamson?

  Exactly. They've got, this is season two. Netflix just renewed season two of a documentary. They haven't finished filming. Well, they must have done because they're gonna run the trial back.

• 39:45Speaker 01

  They'll, they'll, yeah.

• 39:47Chris Williamson?

  They're thinking to themselves, they're like, well, there's episode five.

• 39:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:49Chris Williamson?

  And then fuck, they're doing it again. Right. Okay. We finish it on five episodes. We'll run it back for season two. This is like making a murderer. You're like, hey, keep the case going.

• 39:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:57Chris Williamson?

  Come on.

• 39:58Speaker 01

  Keep it. Yeah. This is another, this is the third season.

• 40:01Chris Williamson?

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• 40:39Chris Williamson?

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• 41:00Speaker 01

  Oh dude, yeah, it's uh, it's fucked up, man. But it's really, I, what I think though, is that like, I would say especially women are not supposed to be by themselves after they have babies. Like, that's the thing that like, that's how people live now. It's not what you're supposed to do. Like, they really should be, like, as soon as you have a kid, you should be with other mom ladies and other ladies and just like, you should have a lot of people around you at all times. It's, I think it's a relatively pretty new thing of like, just have a kid and sit in a fucking house for a year by yourself. As a lady, I, I think especially it's like really fucked up.

• 41:35Chris Williamson?

  I asked a, literally an expert who wrote a book called Dad Brain. So there's mum brain, which you lose about 3% of your gray matter. It's like executive function. You forget where the keys are. But what is interesting is you actually become better at knowing about stuff to do with the kid. You're just really bad at knowing about some other stuff, you know, managing your calendar or doing finances or whatever. And dads have kind of the same sort of a thing. I was talking to her and she thinks the same thing. She thinks that it's almost exclusively mediated by, is there support? Do you feel like you're well contained and held by the local community? There used to be this time, Louise Perry taught me about this. It was this time called laying in. Have you ever heard of this?

• 42:13Chris Williamson?

  So laying in was a month-long period in the Middle Ages where a woman that had just given birth, all that she did was lie in the living room or whatever, and everybody had to do stuff for her, like be nice to her, like bring her food, help her go to the bathroom, help her get washed. Like, what do you want? Do you need a shoulder rub? Like, we'll look after the baby. Like, it's just, everybody was as a kind of probably a infuriating amount of attention. Like, actually, if you were a bit of an introvert, you're like, okay, this has been nice, but I would like you to leave. And um,

• 42:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:47Chris Williamson?

  That was it. And now you think no mandatory maternity leave and people are back in the fucking solo cubicle office within, like, we still haven't even physically recovered.

• 42:57Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 42:58Chris Williamson?

  Haven't, haven't physically.

• 42:59Speaker 01

  And now you're at work going like, I make, you know, I have to make more than basically um, daycare, basically. If I don't make as much as daycare, then I'm at home.

• 43:07Chris Williamson?

  You're running on a treadmill. It's you versus daycare. And if you don't run fast enough, you like, get kicked off the back of it.

• 43:13Speaker 01

  Dude, it's, yeah, it's brutal. And especially when you have a kid, the first like two weeks or so, everyone's like, hey, everyone's stopping by. And then it's just like, that's over. And it's just you and you're like, you know, if you're, you're just sitting there, you're nursing it all the time. That's like constantly releasing hormones when they're feeding from you, that you don't produce enough milk. It's, it's kind of a nightmare, dude. It really is uh, should be revisited as to like, how people go about doing that kind of stuff. Cause it's, it's not, it's not good at all. I think we got the 90 day maternity leave from a, there was just like a therapist back, I think it was an English guy, who was just like Winnicott. He was just like, yo, you gotta give these, you gotta give these people like, at least a couple of months. Yeah. He, he determined he was like, 90 days is the bare minimum.

• 43:51Chris Williamson?

  You can have nine months mandatory.

• 43:53Speaker 01

  Is it really? Yeah, I don't think we do that here. I think we got like,

• 43:56Chris Williamson?

  I think people can.

• 43:57Speaker 01

  Turn and burn. Yeah.

• 43:58Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, you've got to get it, got to get you back into the meat grinder, dude. There's some emails that need sending. Come on.

• 44:02Speaker 01

  It's nine, you said it's nine months?

• 44:04Chris Williamson?

  Nine months. You can pick when as well. So if you want to do from a month before and then have eight months after.

• 44:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:09Chris Williamson?

  My business partner's wife was like, like trying to take it up to the fucking limit. Like absolutely, like, she went to a Spice Girls concert the day she was due. And then went the day after, like we gave birth the day after. And they were like, look, if we give birth while Jerry Halliwell's on stage doing like, what I want, what I really, really want. It's fine. That's fine. Like, that's kind of a cool story, but they had floor tickets.

• 44:32Speaker 01

  That's how Spice Girls are made.

• 44:34Chris Williamson?

  They had floor tickets.

• 44:39Speaker 01

  That's insane, dude. Floor tickets.

• 44:41Chris Williamson?

  Floor tickets in the middle of a stadium for Spice Girls as a concert. It was seated, right? But like,

• 44:46Speaker 01

  Bro, that's big. Crazy.

• 44:48Chris Williamson?

  Massive. Like on a Swiss ball this morning, Spice Girls tonight. Just imagine, like, I was at the Spice Girls concert and then like some ladies' water broke next to me and it was fucking wild.

• 45:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, it does. It definitely, when you're like with a woman who goes through the whole process of like being pregnant and giving birth, it really does like flip a switch in your head where you're like, wow, you guys can do cool stuff. Not in a bad way. I know that sounds patronizing, but I got, I got.

• 45:15Chris Williamson?

  Before that, I just, like, you just got in the way of my farting.

• 45:19Speaker 01

  It really, I should say, that's a horrible way to put it, but it really does give you a deeper appreciation where you're kind of like, damn, that's, cause they, they fucking champ. Childbirth is terrifying. And you watch them go through it and you're like, where the fuck was this fucking stoicism?

• 45:35Speaker 01

  Where is this shit? I've known you for three years. Like, I've seen belly aches take you out. Now you're just, dude, literally like, if I pass out, grab me. I'm like, okay, like what the fuck, like, like battle vets.

• 45:47Chris Williamson?

  Joker willing step into your wife's body.

• 45:51Chris Williamson?

  He comes in in camo fatigues with a fucking rifle.

• 45:53Speaker 01

  It's like kind of, it's like terrifying. You see it. They're just, it's unbelievable. But yeah, that, that is, that is a thing that kind of completes the whole picture. We were like, oh, okay. All right. This is, now I can see the full kind of spectrum here.

• 46:07Chris Williamson?

  The lady Navy SEAL transition is crazy. I wonder uh, what, what changed, what changed with you? Like, how did you change?

• 46:15Speaker 01

  Well, what having kids are saying?

• 46:17Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 46:18Speaker 01

  Um, well, the, the main one is, it's kind of funny. The main one is like, kind of painfully obvious. It's like, you don't realize, and not even like, in a bad way. I don't know if it's like necessarily a bad way, because I think everyone does this. Just how self-absorbed, how all of your thoughts are just like bong, bong, bong, like all day long. And it's like natural. It's very natural. Then you have like a kid and you're like, it literally just plants, almost like another self in your brain that you're always thinking about this person. You're still thinking about yourself. And then like, it's, it's very weird how that works. Cause it is, as you notice, like, you know, you're like, all right, it's time, I'm gonna do this. And you're like, you have to do something with a kid and you're like, all right, I'll get to that later. Then you start being like, I'll never get to that other thing. It's just not happening.

• 46:59Speaker 01

  Like, I'm never gonna do it. And you kind of go through this weird kind of like uh, inner transformation over time where you're like, just letting certain things die off and you, but it's, it's nice. Cause you know, you feel good to like.

• 47:10Chris Williamson?

  Like, no one really enjoys an insane level of selfishness. I think too much attention on yourself. I saw this tweet the other week that said something like, um, you're not autistic, you're just spending too much time in the house on your own and it's making you weird.

• 47:26Speaker 01

  I also don't think you, you should like, I don't think your brain's designed to think about yourself for more than like 30 something years. Cause I had a kid when I was like in my 30s and I remember being like, I've played all the hits of like, why don't I do this? I'm gonna do this. And I'm like, I remember just thinking like, just getting kind of fucking old. I'm like circling all these tracks. And you have a kid and you're like, all right, thank God. I can just think about you now.

• 47:47Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. Jimmy Carr talks about saying it's um, uh, having a child is um, it's a surgical procedure where your own heart now lives outside of your own body.

• 47:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:58Chris Williamson?

  Like you're just, okay, now this is the thing that's the most important. But yeah, I mean, I, I definitely believe a lot of the malaise and like business pursuits and like weird habits and, and like.

• 48:14Chris Williamson?

  Obsessions that guys have are just surrogate families they haven't got around to yet. You think so much of this would be fixed if you just had a

• 48:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:22Chris Williamson?

  Had a baby that you were looking after because it would clean out all the barnacles off the bottom of the ship. Or maybe it would just completely top it to your life because you can't afford it. I don't know.

• 48:30Speaker 01

  That too, but also it did. There is something where it's like, um, like I've tried a lot of stuff. If I had kids, I'd be like, all right, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna do that. And you do things and you're like, man, I guess it's kind of cool. When you have a kid, it's like, it like clicks in a very obvious set groove in your brain. You're like, yes, this makes sense why I'm doing this now. Cause I would do things. I'm like, why am I even doing this? And you're just like, okay, this all makes sense. Yeah. It's like, it's like a baked in kind of purpose. It's just, and it's funny too, cause like, when you examine it from like, you know, like advantages and all this stuff, it's like just more so disadvantages. Like I get hit in the nuts constantly. I get woken up early. Dude, kids just hit you in the nuts. Right? As soon as, well, they're like, they're, they'll like go to like hit you.

• 49:08Chris Williamson?

  That nut height.

• 49:09Speaker 01

  They're just nut height and they just go and they'll, they'll jump on your nuts. They just, they're just like, oh, they don't have any concept of like nuts. So they just jump, they just jump. Like I'm about to land on my dad and boom, right in the nuts. Punch you right in the nuts. You're getting, your nuts are just getting obliterated. Never endingly, you're waking up all the time. You never get sleep. You're every day. You're like, I'm, you know, making meals, doing stuff. And it's like, it's just, you're happy to do it. It's weird. It's like a very, uh, I don't know. It's like a very funny thing about like the deals laid out. Like, all right, what am I getting out of this? And it's like, you'll get repaid with like, like last night I was about to go to bed. And I didn't, I saw they had, we have like an inflatable alien thing in our house. They won from like Chuck E. Cheese. And they had dressed it up in a princess peach dress. So I'm going, I look up the steps. There's just an alien in a princess peach dress.

• 49:53Speaker 01

  And you just laugh for like five minutes, like, what the fuck? And it's like that, you get like a little rewards from just like complete nonsense.

• 49:59Chris Williamson?

  Just random shit. Well, I wonder if you could market, this is my, showing how much I've spent time in America that if you're on a TV show, you can commercialize yourself into a cereal. That given that dads get hit in the nuts a lot, that maybe you could make a special cup that's designed just for dads.

• 50:13Speaker 01

  That wouldn't be bad.

• 50:14Chris Williamson?

  The dad cup?

• 50:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, it wouldn't be bad. Just wear it for a couple. Actually, not a bad idea. Even if it wasn't full, sports cups can be a little rigid, but even just a little bit of padding.

• 50:24Chris Williamson?

  Needs dampening it a bit.

• 50:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, just a little bit of, cause you get, it's, you react in the moment as if some just random guy came up and punched you in the dick. Fuck, what the fuck? And they're like, ah, you're like, I'm sorry, guys, I'm fine. You're like, instantly like we're about to fight and you have to be like, ah, sorry, guys, I'm fine. It just really hurts me when you do that.

• 50:45Chris Williamson?

  You've got to try and explain.

• 50:46Speaker 01

  Does it hurt?

• 50:46Chris Williamson?

  Child language.

• 50:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. Like, does it hurt now? I'm like, no, it's gonna hurt. Hold on. Just wait me 10 seconds. Like, yeah, here it comes. But yeah, but it, it, it really does though. It helps me for me, it really put into perspective like, okay, I love my kids a lot. That other human being's somebody's kid. I should try to be as nice as I can to them. If I, you know, if I can help it.

• 51:08Chris Williamson?

  Was somebody's kid in the past as well.

• 51:09Speaker 01

  Well, now you have like, you have, um, I don't know what you would call it, but it's like, now you have something people can be like, I hate. Cause if someone's like, I hate you. I'm like, whatever. I don't give a fuck. Someone's like, I hate your kids. I'd be like, fuck you dude. So you're like, I can't be. Cause if someone were that mean to my children, it's more so like doing to others as to yourself. But like your kids are like 10 times, you know.

• 51:29Chris Williamson?

  That goes back to your thing about at what age do we say, okay, this person's culpable? Like this is, this is your, you, you're responsible for.

• 51:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:40Chris Williamson?

  Sam Harris has this great thought experiment. You know, Uday Hussain is Saddam Hussein's son.

• 51:45Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 51:46Chris Williamson?

  Have you ever read about what he did?

• 51:47Speaker 01

  No, he's a bad guy.

• 51:49Chris Williamson?

  He makes his, he actually makes his father look like a lovely man, like a very, very nice man.

• 51:55Speaker 01

  He's like Mini Cooper.

• 51:56Chris Williamson?

  Crazy how ruthless he was. He would like turn up at weddings, kill everybody except the husband. Then assault the wife in front of the husband, then kill the husband, then kill the wife.

• 52:08Speaker 01

  Jesus.

• 52:08Chris Williamson?

  Just cause he could. Like it was why, I once had a guy on the podcast who had to look after him as he flew to Vegas. And like get him cocaine and all of this stuff. And he was just going around Vegas trying to be this warlord from the Middle East. But anyway, Sam, Sam Harris has this example. It's kind of like maybe one of the most evil guys that's ever lived.

• 52:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:29Chris Williamson?

  And you say, uh, at what point does Uday Hussain become culpable for his actions? You say, okay, so he's two years, he's got the genetics of his warlord father, right? And he's three years old and he's pushing the other kids in nursery or whatever he had. And you go, well, you know, he's three, like you kind of not really. And you go, okay, roll the clock forward. He's six. And he's pulling the wings off of flies. Uh, and he's grown up in this honor culture, this sort of father, the genetics, but then this reinforcement of dad is every, he lets him do. Everyone lets dad do whatever he wants. Okay. Well, he's six, like he's, and then you go, okay, like just roll the clock forward.

• 53:08Chris Williamson?

  Like at what point? And it's really difficult. I'm not saying that people that are adults aren't responsible or kids aren't responsible for what they do. But it's kind of, it fucks you up as a question. Cause you go, I don't know. You do look at a kid and think, well, no. And we also even have that reflected in the legal system where there's juvie, right? Or there's an equivalent.

• 53:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:27Chris Williamson?

  Y, YA, where that Johnny Chang guy went, young, young offenders or whatever it's called, young adult thing. Yeah. What point does this horrible guy, like maybe one of the worst people that's ever lived? Do you point the finger and go, yeah, you're, now you're responsible for what you did. And the same thing with, well, he was someone's son at some point.

• 53:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:46Chris Williamson?

  And, but some people are assholes and you're allowed to say you hate them.

• 53:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, it's also like, yeah, again, he was Saddam Hussein's son. So I think most people are like, fuck both of those guys. But it's like, it is, it just kind of colors your thinking. You know what I mean? Where you're kind of like, ah, you know, like more for just like strangers would like do stuff. Usually, you know, you're driving around, you're like, oh, that guy like offended me somehow. I'm just gonna go nuts. And you start to kind of be like, ah, maybe that guy's, you know, small stuff like that. But I feel like once somebody does irreparable harm to another person, you're able to be like, it's sad. That is someone's child, but you know, we got eight billion of us here. We gotta, that guy's.

• 54:19Chris Williamson?

  We got enough. Sorry.

• 54:20Speaker 01

  Yeah. Put them away.

• 54:21Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. You lost, you lost your chance.

• 54:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. There, I feel like it comes to a point where it's like, you know, it's not ideal, but you're like, bro, get out of here.

• 54:27Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 54:28Speaker 01

  It'd be nice to be like, oh, let's just like put you away in like one of those Norwegian jails where you get to learn drums or whatever. And it's like, I don't know. Some people just gotta be, you know, be tossed away.

• 54:40Speaker 01

  They have too. The jail in Norway is kind of sick.

• 54:43Chris Williamson?

  There's a, I'm pretty sure there's a quiz on the internet, which is, is it a Norwegian jail? Or a British university halls of residence? And it's essentially impossible to work out which one it is. And like the halls of residence, a lot of the time were old jails that were just near a university. And then they cleared people out. That was the case in Newcastle where I went. One of the halls of residence used to be like a correctional facility.

• 55:10Speaker 01

  Really?

• 55:11Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. And they're just like, that's a big building. We can probably put students in there. That'll be fine.

• 55:15Speaker 01

  I just want to change your painting.

• 55:18Chris Williamson?

  Put some paintings up, you know, like change the color, get rid of the bars and we'll be fine.

• 55:22Speaker 01

  That's crazy. I used to have a, I was, well, I used it as an office, but I had an apartment that was in an old insane asylum. It's pretty cool. It was, and when you had to get in, there was just like, kind of like labyrinth under to get kind of like, you know, the basement level. It was fucking terrifying looking.

• 55:36Chris Williamson?

  Are you not worried about ghosts and shit like that is?

• 55:38Speaker 01

  I didn't sleep there. If I had slept there, I'd have been terrified. I was just there during the day. So it was like my apartment, office apartment. So I would go there and work during the day, but I never slept there. I would be so scared of crazy ghosts for sure.

• 55:50Chris Williamson?

  No.

• 55:51Speaker 01

  Baby stranglers.

• 55:52Chris Williamson?

  In other news, have you ever noticed how some websites make it ridiculously easy to buy while some feel infinitely harder?

• 55:58Speaker 01

  Back in my day, I had to walk 10 miles to the local store.

• 56:02Chris Williamson?

  Aren't you younger than me?

• 56:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, but my dad got a DUI.

• 56:06Chris Williamson?

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• 56:48Chris Williamson?

  I know that you're into, uh, writing and, and stuff. Have you ever read Leo Tolstoy's, uh, diary entries? Have you ever seen any of these?

• 56:55Speaker 01

  I've read some of his short stories.

• 56:57Chris Williamson?

  Might be some of the best diary entries ever.

• 56:59Speaker 01

  What was he, what was he on about?

• 57:01Chris Williamson?

  September 19th, 1858, decided that one must love and work, and that's it. September 20th, tired, didn't work and didn't love.

• 57:12Chris Williamson?

  Just the best. Uh, March, March thirty first, eighteen fifty two. Woke up at six o'clock, woke everyone up. I did not get up and slept until nine.

• 57:24Speaker 01

  That's it. That's his whole time.

• 57:25Chris Williamson?

  Uh, January twenty fifth, eighteen fifty one. I've fallen in love, or imagine that I have, went to a party and lost my head, bought a horse which I don't need at all. This guy sounds fucking awesome.

• 57:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, he does, man. He, Tolstoy was another one of those Russian guys, right? The Russian writers are unbelievable.

• 57:44Chris Williamson?

  Built different.

• 57:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, a hundred percent, dude.

• 57:47Chris Williamson?

  They'd be living in the insane asylum. They would love that.

• 57:49Speaker 01

  They're wild dudes. I'm, I'm reading a Dostoevsky book right now, or however you say his name, and it's, dude, those guys are, that time, I don't know when Tolstoy was alive, but that like eighteen nineties of Russia time period. Since I was, it's insane. Cause like, you know, obviously there's no cell phones or whatever, but like, you're just in a town full of people and like, they would obviously have their beefs and quarrels and stuff. But like, you couldn't like, you know, you can text someone out like, hey, what do you want to do? And if they don't get back to you, you're like, I think they want to hang out. You'd have to go to someone's house and they'd be like, go away. You'd be like, what the fuck's your problem? He's like, I don't like you. And you'd be like, okay, fuck.

• 58:21Chris Williamson?

  Do you think this is unique to Russia?

• 58:23Speaker 01

  Oh, it's just that time period.

• 58:24Chris Williamson?

  In general.

• 58:25Speaker 01

  But it was just like, you know, they're, just the way they talk to each other so far. I think in general, probably the whole area is like.

• 58:29Chris Williamson?

  The way that beef unfolded before cell phone, before being able to make phone calls is, well, everything's face to face.

• 58:35Speaker 01

  And it was also that like old time, kind of like vocal register where they'd be like, your, your presence offends me, get out. Cause you would do, it's like, they do it in the book where like, you gotta find matches. So if you don't know where your matches are, they were like your cell phone. Cause like, if you were, if it was nighttime, you had to light matches, light a candle. People would just come into your house. And be like, hey, was I, I need, my wife's giving birth, I need, or I need, so you're just sleeping. He'd be like, who's there? And he'd be like, oh, it's me. He'd be like, get out. I don't like you. And he's like, hey, I need to talk to you now. And they'd be like, be gone fool. And he's like, where are my matches? And you'd be fumbling around in the dark and you'd light a match and be like, oh, fuck, it's some other guy, dude. Fucking, it was crazy to think about.

• 59:15Speaker 01

  And they'd be like, well, very well. I shout and come back and I, I'll, I'll leave you here, you wretched beast. And he'd be like, you're a fool. It was just like, all right, then you just go to bed. You're like, fuck that guy.

• 59:23Chris Williamson?

  The idea that you're in, your entire existence is relying on whether or not you can find your matches and you've got, you've got beefs that play out in, I mean.

• 59:33Speaker 01

  It's crazy.

• 59:34Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's a.

• 59:36Speaker 01

  That, those Russian guys are fucking wild, man. There, there was a, I think, I think it was Tolstoy, actually. He had a story about a guy and it was, maybe it was like an old folk tale that he like just wrote down. But there was this guy who had like a farm and he was like, damn, this farm's cool. I need a bigger farm. He got an even bigger farm. And he's got greedy for more and more land. Eventually he went to these like, I don't know what they would have been like indigenous Russian, kind of like Inuit types. And he went and found those guys and they're like, dude, if you can have all the land you want, he traded them something for it. And he's like, but you gotta walk it off. And as far as you walk from sunup to sundown, if you make a circle or a square and connect the dot, will give you all that land. And he's like, right on. He walked so far. He ended up just like dying basically, cause he kept walking, trying to get there.

• 1:00:18Speaker 01

  Ran and just dies. And there's like, all right, bury him. It's like, what the fuck, what a fucked up story.

• 1:00:22Chris Williamson?

  The most Russian story.

• 1:00:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:24Chris Williamson?

  I read, um, it's called A Swim in a Pond in the Rain. And it's basically nine short stories, Russian short stories. And after every page, the guy that actually wrote the book explains how to read it.

• 1:00:37Speaker 01

  Yeah. Who was that? By, uh, Saunders? Uh, maybe I forget.

• 1:00:41Chris Williamson?

  It's kind of, yeah, it's kind of famous.

• 1:00:43Speaker 01

  Yeah. It'll be like, this one's boring. Yeah.

• 1:00:47Speaker 01

  This one just sucks. But yeah, those guys, I don't know what it's, it's, you know what it is? It's so stark and just, you're reading it. You're like, Jesus Christ.

• 1:00:54Chris Williamson?

  Life sucks. It doesn't make me feel good. It was actually, we were talking about this before, like some things, some experiences that you go through. You can do N A D, which is this I B thing that's supposed to make you healthy. And it's awful. The whole time it's awful. And then once you've finished, you're, it doesn't feel awful anymore. And you go, ah, maybe I'm better. Maybe it improved my health or maybe I just don't feel awful anymore.

• 1:01:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:15Chris Williamson?

  And it's kind of like reading anything about Russian literature or about that period. You're like, maybe it's taught me something about my life, or maybe I just don't feel awful anymore because that sucked. Like, this is, it's so, me, everyone's mean and everything's gray and there's not enough food and the horse just died and the, wheel of the carriage broke and someone's son just got like, you know, leukemia and no one even knows what leukemia is. And I was about to die of dysentery, but I, you know, and then you go, oh, that's over. And now I feel better about my life. By contrast.

• 1:01:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. It gives you like thirty seconds. Then you're right back to being like, huh, I'm bored.

• 1:01:53Chris Williamson?

  This coffee's too hot.

• 1:01:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. I don't like this. This bean's over roasted.

• 1:01:57Chris Williamson?

  Hit in the nuts.

• 1:01:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. Just got fucking whacked.

• 1:02:00Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. It's, um.

• 1:02:01Speaker 01

  That stuff is nice. I, I, I do like to kind of think about that stuff a lot or just like, I really, really, really challenge myself to not sink into, and I, and I can do this easily of just like, whatever that mindset is of me being like, this is bad. And just getting like shitty and nasty. It's like, they're, it's for me, it's just like, it's so inexcusable, dude. It's like, you don't, what are you doing? That should be the first for me, I'm talking to myself. The number one focus of the day. Usually I'm like, I gotta get this, then I go to this. I'm like, I need to not be just.

• 1:02:35Chris Williamson?

  Whining.

• 1:02:36Speaker 01

  Whining and just kind of like, well, if I said that to you, you mean, it's like, shut the fuck up. And it's just to me personally, I'm like, shut up, man. Why are you doing this? So I, I really try to like, every day I like wake up and try, I'm like, give me one, let me try to get it perfect one day.

• 1:02:51Chris Williamson?

  Defeat the voice that complains about stuff.

• 1:02:53Speaker 01

  Just bullshit, dude.

• 1:02:54Chris Williamson?

  It is interesting, the, the more that somebody complains, the less accurate their view of reality is. Cause usually you're complaining about reality not meeting your expectations. But that's not reality's fault. Like it's your fault.

• 1:03:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:09Chris Williamson?

  It's your fault that reality didn't meet your expectations. Obviously stuff can happen in the world that's unfair and that sucks or whatever. You should point it out. But the complaining bit to yourself.

• 1:03:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:18Chris Williamson?

  It's like, why is there all this traffic on the way to work? You go, well, because there's traffic and you didn't anticipate there being traffic. But it's not the traffic's fault. And let's not forget as well that you are traffic.

• 1:03:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. You're another guy.

• 1:03:29Chris Williamson?

  Fucking contributing to this in the middle, in the middle of it. And, uh, yeah, reality's a thousand and O undefeated. It's total knockout. The reality is completely undefeated with regards to this. And the more that someone complains to you or, you know, if you've got a friend who's always complaining, like, I, I don't think you understand how the world works. You can't, you straight up can't understand how the world works because if you did, you, your expectation would be closer to it and therefore you wouldn't be complaining as much.

• 1:03:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. No, yeah, it's a hundred percent true. Or for me, it's like raising, if things are good, I'll find trivial annoyances and I'll just put them to ten and be like, this is fucking bullshit. And I'll just focus on that for like, four hours, but this is fucking bullshit. And you're like, it's not even a real problem. Like that's in comparison to problems. You've had before. That's like, you can just ignore that.

• 1:04:20Chris Williamson?

  It's strange, cause when you've got loads of big problems, you think, oh my God, all of these problems are big. And sometimes you actually have ones where you go, this is a justifiable. Issue that I need to deal with in life. And then other times when there are no problems, it's like, the demand for problems is fixed and the supply needs to be brought up to meet that. It's like, I have a waterline of problems that I need to have in my life and I will lower the threshold for what constitutes a problem. Until I'm able to like, make the things that are happening in my, it's like this fucking, I should have got it blended. I should have got it, I got it on the rocks and I should have got it fucking blended. And I know I should have got it blended. Morgan Housel's got this fucking awesome story where he, he kind of talks about this.

• 1:05:02Chris Williamson?

  He, um, planned for a long time to go away to this holiday with his wife. And they would, done the research about, it was the first one, I think, where they were taking both of their kids. It was going to be this big deal. And it was the first time the kids were going to go abroad and they were all excited. And, you know, they've had the kids for a while, so they haven't really been able to go away and they've saved up the money. And then they even, looked at the, the restaurant that they were going to go to in this big resort in Mexico or something. And they knew even the, the, the, menu in advance and the table, they knew the table they wanted. It's got apparently on the reviews, it's got the best view of the sunset. And this is the cocktail I'm going to get. I'm going to get it blended instead of whatever. And then they finally get there and they've got the kids and it's a fucking nightmare. And they arrive and they've dumped all of their stuff. And it's the first night and the kids are at the,

• 1:05:43Chris Williamson?

  nursery thing that looks after them for a little bit. And they've got this first time to sit down away from the kids in another country since they've had the kids, all the rest of it. And the first thing that he thought was, well, it is nice, but like, there's some sand between my toes. And the sand is, that's distracting me. And I should have got it blended rather than on that. And the sun, the sunset, like the sunset is nice. But I actually think it would have been, I don't think the reviews are quite right. And I think that that table, there would have been better to see. And I didn't bring my glasses and now the sun's so low, it's sort of hitting me in the face. And that's kind of a bit uncomfortable. He's like, what the fuck am I doing? Like, what am I doing? I've dreamed about this thing and the experience is so close.

• 1:06:24Chris Williamson?

  But I just, the human like curse is to, for everything to kind of be not quite as nice as he thought it was going to be.

• 1:06:31Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:06:32Chris Williamson?

  And then for you to focus on all the ways in which it's not as nice.

• 1:06:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. I, I think about it a lot. Like I remember, I can like clearly remember, you know, when I like, was like kind of living and dying by like, I'd have a job or I fucking hated that job. And I was like, one day it'll, come together and I'll make a living doing a thing I like. And then, I remember when that started to become something of a reality and it's like really unsettling. I remember being like, so I had all these problems I could rely on. I'd be like, fucking my boss is a dickhead. I hate this. I don't have money. Uh, uh, uh. And then that stuff started to go away. And I was like, I felt like weird. I was like, oh, this doesn't really feel good to not have all of that stuff. Kind of like, it's always like comfortable. It's like comfortable in a way where like, at least I like, am familiar with this. And then you get out of that and you're like,

• 1:07:15Speaker 01

  yeah, I kind of did it. And then it's just like your flood, it was just different problems that you're just, when you look at them, cause you get so used to what life becomes. And then you, you're like, I remember being like, I would never fall into that kind of stuff. And it happens and you're like, ah, fuck. Doing exactly what I said I wouldn't do and a piece of shit. But yeah, it's, you know, just, it really does. For me, it's just like, learning how to just slow myself down and not be such a fucking spaz every day. Like if I, like if, God forbid, if I don't get something done or, you know, just one day. If I don't get this or that done, it's like, just learning how to like chill and like, I don't know, man, just like really hash out my priorities rather than being like, you know, just, doing the things you think you're supposed to do.

• 1:07:57Chris Williamson?

  You have to perfectly dominate the day. And if you don't, then you go to bed a loser.

• 1:08:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. Or just feel like.

• 1:08:02Chris Williamson?

  It's not fair. It's like, cause again, with the, uh, your ability to like dream a world, who's always going to outstrip reality's ability to deliver that to you. You're, you're literally fantasizing about what this cocktail could have tasted like or how the sunset was or the lack of sand between your toes.

• 1:08:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:19Chris Williamson?

  And you think, well, if you set this almost impossibly perfect standard for every single day, you're kind of guaranteeing yourself to be miserable. And, um, it's interesting on the, the.

• 1:08:32Chris Williamson?

  You get escape velocity, freedom from this thing when all of the problems and your boss is a dick and you don't like it. And you get out of that. And then you almost have to grieve this weird life that you lost. Connor, one of my friends who was on the show this week. He talks about how when he had his, when his wife was pregnant with his first kid and he'd lived in his car and rode a motorcycle with like spikes glued onto the helmet, like all of the things, red flags in your future son in law, like all of the shit that you don't want somebody to do. And his life could have gone in such a horrible direction, like smoking weed and selling weed and drinking booze and getting in fights and doing all this stuff.

• 1:09:12Chris Williamson?

  Wasn't a good productive member of society. And then he remembered when he was married with a house and a wife who was pregnant. And he had this moment of like, I made it out. I made it. I made, I'd finally gotten free of what could have happened in my past life.

• 1:09:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:30Chris Williamson?

  And now I'm blown away by what, where I am. But he said it made him, he didn't even know what it, what the emotion was. It was very confusing of like, fuck. That could have gone so wrong. And now I'm in this new place and I don't think that I have to worry about those problems anymore. I don't, I don't have to worry about those things that were like my driving, my motivation, my ambition, all of that was driven out of like, I just don't want to be that guy that I was when I lived in my car in a Walmart parking lot. I just don't want to be that guy anymore.

• 1:10:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's, that's the, that's the funny thing. Cause I was like possessed to escape like the nine to five job. That was like, when I was younger, I would have, you know, would have done anything to just get the five, like I can't do this. Been in an office. I did that for like, you know, I would do it for like three weeks and quit. I remember I was like more, I still am. I think about it every now and again. I'm like, dude, that like terrified me to such a level where I was taking like insane risks just to get out of that. You know, and it's like, who knows? I could always go back at any time, but it's like, dude, I remember, I was thinking about that driving the other day. I was like, dude, when I was, my, my, my twenties were like just fucking insane. Like I could have died like for sure. A couple of times. It wouldn't have been that crazy.

• 1:10:42Chris Williamson?

  What was the, what was the close, or what were one of the closest times that you came to death?

• 1:10:46Speaker 01

  I've had guns pulled on. I used to sell weed too. So I'd have guns pulled on me twice. So that was like, any other day, the guy could have been like, yeah, I'm just going to shoot, actually shoot this guy rather than not do it. I thought about it and I was like, holy fuck, man. That was crazy.

• 1:11:00Chris Williamson?

  Came really close.

• 1:11:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. So you think about it and you're like, holy shit. Like that would have not have been that crazy.

• 1:11:05Chris Williamson?

  Debts and stuff like that?

• 1:11:08Speaker 01

  Robbery. They were robbing me. I wasn't, I was not a robber. I was a robbie. So I would get robbed. I would get robbed constantly. And I would just be like, whatever. Fuck it.

• 1:11:16Chris Williamson?

  Sounds like the worst, you sound like the worst drug dealer ever.

• 1:11:18Speaker 01

  Well, here's the thing. I was, well, hold on. I was, it was these other guys that are the worst drug dealers. I was doing my job. I was on time. I was punctual. I was quality control, very quality control forward. You know, I was, I was never trying to rip people off. But for me, I was always, for me, money was always to buy kind of freedom. So I never, I didn't care about like nice stuff. I never like wasted, I would just save all my money and be like, yes, I don't have to work for like six months. This is awesome. Then I would get robbed and I would just be like, all right, I'll make it again. Come on guys, let's go. But like you just, you think about it and it's like, for me, it's like, yeah, it's cool. You know, blah, blah, blah. To get out of it and like risk taking. I think that's all good stuff. Then it's like, dude, I could have just like chilled out something internally too. Like I didn't have to go that crazy, you know, I could have, I could have

• 1:12:01Speaker 01

  slowly but surely figured things out and blah, blah, blah. And it's like, yeah, I'm just, it's, it is a relief. You're like, never have to worry about that. Like I've got pulled over by cops recently and just kind of like, hey, what's up guys? Before I would have been like, my life's over. I'm dead. This is terrible. I'm going to jail for it. Now I'm just kind of like, what's up guys?

• 1:12:17Chris Williamson?

  Hello.

• 1:12:17Speaker 01

  How you doing, brother? It's, it's so nice.

• 1:12:20Chris Williamson?

  You sound like a very stand up drug dealer.

• 1:12:23Speaker 01

  I was.

• 1:12:23Chris Williamson?

  It's a nice, he's a nice.

• 1:12:24Speaker 01

  I got that. It was one compliment I always get. They're like, dude, you're, you're actually on time or this or that. I was very good. I didn't, I never ripped people off or anything like that.

• 1:12:31Chris Williamson?

  Shame that they're on trust pilot reviews for drug dealers. Wouldn't that be good? You'd have had, you'd have had a great rating.

• 1:12:36Speaker 01

  I think that's like the dark web now. So I think you kind of, if you're like, a lot of them just operate on the dark web. And it's like, you can just forego all of the drama and crazy stuff.

• 1:12:44Chris Williamson?

  In other news, if you're trying to go from Joey Chestnut to Joey Swole, the RP Strength app is the best place to start. I've been in the gym for 20 years. And it wasn't until the past few years that I had the best training sessions of my life and RP was a massive part of that. Actual scientists built this thing around one obsession. To beat up their high school bullies and provide the most science backed, effective path to maximizing muscle gain. It tells you your exercises, how many sets, reps and weights that you need to do. Everything. So all that you have to do is show up and lift. If the RP app could wipe your ass for you, it probably would. And it adjusts automatically every week based on how you're actually progressing. For me, following a proper evidence based plan has made a massive difference.

• 1:13:23Chris Williamson?

  And if you're serious about training, it'll do the same for you too. Right now you can get up to $50 off the RP hypertrophy app by going to the link in the description below, heading to RPstrength.com/ModernWisdom and using the code MODERNWISDOM at checkout. That's RPstrength.com/ModernWisdom and Modern Wisdom at checkout. But the thing is, if you're a drug dealer, a supplier, I guess, on the dark web, the game is completely different because it's not about who you know. It's basically, you're essentially running a Shopify store.

• 1:13:51Speaker 01

  You are.

• 1:13:51Chris Williamson?

  Like how good are you?

• 1:13:53Speaker 01

  Dude.

• 1:13:53Chris Williamson?

  At product photos and like, you know, writing headlines and stuff.

• 1:13:57Speaker 01

  There's just guys in one bedroom apartments now, just quietly raking in millions of dollars a year, really quiet, unassuming life. You do it for a couple of years, you get out and you're like, all right, peace. You have a bunch of Bitcoin.

• 1:14:06Chris Williamson?

  I watched this Netflix documentary once about a guy that ran a similar service to the Silk Road from his bedroom and he was young. And as a part of the documentary, they recreated the bedroom perfectly. The old computer he had, the exact desk he had, the full on dimensions. Put it into a soundstage and after he'd got out of jail, sort of put him back into it and seamlessly cut from archive footage of what was going on to like reenactment by the guy in the same sized, same shape, same color, same lighting, same computer bedroom. It was so immersive. It was really cool.

• 1:14:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's crazy.

• 1:14:45Chris Williamson?

  But yeah, the, uh, the fact that being a drug dealer now means that you can basically just be an online marketer.

• 1:14:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:53Chris Williamson?

  It's like, how good are your Facebook ads, dude?

• 1:14:55Speaker 01

  Dude.

• 1:14:55Chris Williamson?

  It's a very different world to the one that you lived in.

• 1:14:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is. It's, uh, I didn't have, I remember hearing about the dark web when I was younger and I knew guys who used to do that stuff, but I was like, I'm terrible with computers. I was like, I'm just I'm going to click yes and get arrested. So I'm like, let me just do what I know and just drive around here in my beat up car. But yeah, it was, uh, you know, it was just, I like, I think about it now because it is, it was just such a weird thing. Cause I, I was like, it was like a decade. Like I did it for a long time. So I had like a very, very long time doing it to where I, I think I like fried my nervous system. My hairs, I mean, my family does kind of go gray early, but I like went hyper gray really fast. Cause you're adrenalized every fucking day. And it's like, so if you're in an office, you're bored and that's a problem.

• 1:15:42Speaker 01

  So I escaped that and I was just like constantly flooded with adrenaline just for like 12 years.

• 1:15:46Chris Williamson?

  What are you worried about? Being caught?

• 1:15:48Speaker 01

  Being arrested, pretty much. It's more, it's mostly being arrested. Any other problem?

• 1:15:51Chris Williamson?

  Interestingly, not being killed.

• 1:15:52Speaker 01

  I didn't, I was like, they're not going to kill me. I went, there was one guy who pulled a gun on me and then I went back to them later because I was like, you have to front me stuff from now on. So I figured in my head, like if I didn't have any leverage, there'd be no reason to try to rob me, I guess, if that makes sense.

• 1:16:05Chris Williamson?

  Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:16:05Speaker 01

  So I remember I went back like a battered wife. It was just like, all right, I'll hang out with you again, but don't do that. All right. It was really fucked up.

• 1:16:13Speaker 01

  He had thought I had robbed him. That was his whole thing. Cause I had given him money to go get something and he would go get it and come back. And he came back like, hey, they took all your money. Why the fuck did you, I'm like, why would I rob you to take my own money back? And he was like, I don't know what's going on. He cocked a gun, was holding that me. My roommate at the time came out and was just like, and he ran outside and then he ran out there. I was just like, oh shit.

• 1:16:32Chris Williamson?

  No, hang on. The guy, your roommate was the one that got chased.

• 1:16:35Speaker 01

  Poor roommate. No, I did. He just came out like, hey, what's up?

• 1:16:38Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, but he was the one that got chased.

• 1:16:40Speaker 01

  Well, he, he was just like, go get him. And I was like, I was just frozen. I was like, and then he ran out just kind of like, I'm out of here too. But he like ran out right after him. And I was just like, fuck.

• 1:16:49Chris Williamson?

  Was your roommate not involved in?

• 1:16:50Speaker 01

  Not at all. He was mortified. He was.

• 1:16:52Chris Williamson?

  You are the worst roommate.

• 1:16:53Speaker 01

  Horrible. I'm the, I am, I think, I was the worst roommate. I was cool though. I would, I would cover, you know, extra stuff, but at that time.

• 1:17:00Chris Williamson?

  Because you're selling drugs. Come on. It's the one thing that you can provide is drugs and cash. That's literally it.

• 1:17:08Speaker 01

  But I, it was funny too, cause I did have a, I had a real serious conscience about it. Cause I remember like weed is like, you can really conscience free. Like, you know, I wouldn't sell it to like high school or something like that. So it was like,

• 1:17:19Chris Williamson?

  I didn't feel bad about that. The ethical drug dealer is crazy.

• 1:17:21Speaker 01

  Dude, I remember I, I dabbled in trying to sell coke, which I've never done by the, I've never done coke. I tried selling coke for a while and I remember this guy would come get it off me all the time. And I, I remember stopping people and being like, dude, you're doing this stuff too much. You have to chill. And they'd be like, shut the fuck up. And

• 1:17:37Chris Williamson?

  Actually, an ethical drug dealer is a horrible drug. You're, you're the worst drug.

• 1:17:40Speaker 01

  That was bad. That was bad.

• 1:17:41Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. I can't believe you had a decade career in something that you're bad at.

• 1:17:45Speaker 01

  Well, it was also though, the, the weed was my strong suit. Cause that was like, you're dealing with kind of like-minded people for the most part, you know, and it's pretty chill, all things considered. But once you scale up and you get into like bigger money, that's when like a real criminal element enters and that's when

• 1:17:59Chris Williamson?

  Dangerous.

• 1:18:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, I know someone who got just shot in the face, point blank. And they tried to set up like a, you know, 50, 60 pound deal. Someone flew out cross country to meet him, right in the head. That was it. Yeah. It's, it's like, it gets gnarly, but you start off just like slinging ace to like your boys and it's just all very chill. And it slowly gets like scarier and scarier.

• 1:18:21Chris Williamson?

  Work your way up. You were saying before about, uh, you know, you walk up the stairs. I mean, I guess your old roommate would have maybe seen something crazy at the top of the stairs, but it wouldn't have been an inflatable alien with a

• 1:18:33Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:18:33Chris Williamson?

  Princess, Princess Peach. Just replaced one like slightly intimidated, very worried roommate with two small sort of insane, these kids are kind of always on drugs.

• 1:18:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:46Chris Williamson?

  They kind of behave in the manner of a, like a, a child is essentially a drunk adult.

• 1:18:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:50Chris Williamson?

  In tiny form.

• 1:18:51Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 1:18:52Chris Williamson?

  You're like, what are you doing? And like headstands, like why? Like, I don't know.

• 1:18:55Speaker 01

  It's the rules.

• 1:18:56Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:59Speaker 01

  Comes up and punches you in the stomach. What the fuck is that about?

• 1:19:01Chris Williamson?

  Uh, I've got my, I've got my dad cup on. Fuck you. Uh, but the difference is my housemate's away in Montenegro at the moment and there is something really like kind of despondent about coming home and nothing's moved. Like nothing's changed, but that cup is in the exact same place.

• 1:19:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:20Chris Williamson?

  As when I left it this morning. And I just want someone to come and like, even if they mess my stuff up a bit.

• 1:19:25Speaker 01

  Just vandalize it slightly.

• 1:19:27Chris Williamson?

  Just a little bit, like move the cup or something. I just want new mess.

• 1:19:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:30Chris Williamson?

  Or different mess or something.

• 1:19:32Speaker 01

  Yeah. No, that's.

• 1:19:32Chris Williamson?

  But it's really like, oh, it's the same, it's the same as it was before. That's, there it is.

• 1:19:38Speaker 01

  It's dude, it's a, yeah, that's when I travel for stand-up, I'll like my hotel rooms. It's the same. I walk into that silence and I'm like, ah, just kind of people like, that must be great, right? I'm like, no, I don't, I really, I really dislike it. But, but yeah, that was kind of like my, my whole, my, I guess the thing that I've like learned, like horribly in the wrong, like the hard way is that like, if at my early twenties, cause the problem was is like, at least I think in school, it's geared towards like achieve for yourself and yourself alone, get into the best school, make the best, make the most money. But then you're like set on this track that you're like, like, I remember being like in college, being like, I don't really care about that, but I also want to do well. And I want to have a nice life. And it was like, had this big conflict where I was like, if I were to talk to like a, a 20 year old now, I'd be like,

• 1:20:23Speaker 01

  find something you like to do that maybe benefits other people. And that will actually give you enough meaning to like endure the horrible time in your early career where you're eating shit and everyone, you know, it sucks. Cause I tried to like lightning jump ahead of that. And it just was like a fucking disaster for like 15 years. It was one disaster after another, just to get out of like, I was such a pussy about having a job and being like, I deserve more than this. And it's like, I could, I almost died.

• 1:20:49Chris Williamson?

  Deserved to have a gun pointed at.

• 1:20:51Speaker 01

  Yeah. I almost literally died because I, I could have just like found something I was interested in.

• 1:20:54Chris Williamson?

  Cause I couldn't drink coffee and sit in a cubicle.

• 1:20:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know. Dude, I for real. I like see office guys hanging out at like lunchtime, like 10 people at lunch. And we'll get to the point where I would be like envious of them. I'm like, dude, that actually looks nice. It looks nice. You have your friends.

• 1:21:08Chris Williamson?

  Great time.

• 1:21:09Speaker 01

  Everyone's kind of chilling.

• 1:21:10Chris Williamson?

  Don't need to take your work home with you. You're not worried about someone breaking your door down. Your housemate doesn't hate you.

• 1:21:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. You're just, you're, it's so, it's like, and I remember like almost craving boredom at a point where I was like, I wish I fucking was bored. That'd be awesome. Not have to worry about like 90 million different things. And you know, it's like,

• 1:21:26Chris Williamson?

  People really sort of shit talk university, going to college or whatever. And then they do the same thing about having a nine to five. And it's cool to be, being able to do your own thing or build your thing or work on someone's thing that's smaller and you've got more ownership over. All that shit's great, but it's not, it's not necessarily better. And that, I don't have to take my work home with me. I get my weekends off when I want. I don't have to worry about like making pay for the people that work for me. And like all of that shit. A lot of people think, oh, working for myself means I get to choose when I work. But what it results in is you just working all the time.

• 1:22:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:04Chris Williamson?

  And you go, I, do you want that? Is that kind of what your dream is? And you're right as well to say that, um,

• 1:22:13Chris Williamson?

  you're going to have to endure a bunch of, like, you're going to have to eat some shit.

• 1:22:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:17Chris Williamson?

  It's like, what flavor shit can you eat?

• 1:22:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:19Chris Williamson?

  Cause some people can eat the cubicle coffee, lunch break shit, super easy. And other people can eat the, I'm never going to get a day off shit. Super easy. It's like which, what pain do you want in your life? Cause people, there's that line about, um,

• 1:22:35Chris Williamson?

  do what feels like play to you, but looks like work to everyone else. But that kind of ignores the fact that

• 1:22:43Chris Williamson?

  even the most existentially aligned thing that you do in your life is regularly going to feel like work. It's regularly going to feel like shit. So what shit do you want?

• 1:22:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:51Chris Williamson?

  Like not what fun and play do you want? Cause like even writing your books and stuff, you turn up and you've managed to have the perfect morning and you've seen sunrise and the kids are off and you're trained and you've got the right amount of caffeination and you sit down and you go, oh, fuck.

• 1:23:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:06Chris Williamson?

  Just a blinking, you've got a blinking curse.

• 1:23:08Speaker 01

  Or you're, or you're just, you're tweaking a sentence for the 30th time. And you're just like, you're like, dude, I feel like I'm going to pass out. I'm like, I'm sitting in a chair. I have no blood going to my brain. And I'm like, uh, is that a perfect clause? Yeah. It's just anything. And I love, I love writing. And it's like, even, yeah, even then you're like, fuck, but that, that's with anything. It's like, you're not even like, what? It's like, just why, just if, if like, just figuring out like, why are you doing this outside of your own personal game? Cause that'll fizzle out, even if you get it. It's like, is there a compelling reason to do a thing? Is it for other people? Is it for just like, you know, creating something new of yourself, whatever the fuck it is. But that, that was the one thing like, I completely missed. And I got older and I was just kind of like, oh,

• 1:23:46Chris Williamson?

  There it is.

• 1:23:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. Fuck, I could have.

• 1:23:48Chris Williamson?

  There should be a name for when you disregard cliches and then in future realize that the cliche was right. You know?

• 1:23:56Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:23:57Chris Williamson?

  Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's that thing that everybody says, but because everybody says it, it feels trite, which means that it can't be true. So I'm not going to do it. Cause that's fucking gay.

• 1:24:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:06Chris Williamson?

  And then you realize like, oh God, I already had it. I literally had it and I got rid of it. And it was some shit my mom said to me when I was 13.

• 1:24:16Speaker 01

  Yeah. That was a, I've been reading, you know, Chesterton Williams, the, another Englishman.

• 1:24:20Chris Williamson?

  GK Chest.

• 1:24:21Speaker 01

  GK, yeah. GK Chesterton, that's his name. He, uh, I, I love reading his essays and he, he has this book I'm reading right now called Orthodoxy, where he started out being like, I'm about to come up there. Someone was like, well, he did a book that kind of criticized a lot of other philosophical systems of his time. And someone was like, what's your philosophical system? He's like, all right, get this, lays it out. And then he goes, fuck, this is Christianity.

• 1:24:45Speaker 01

  Fuck, I just explained Christianity. And he starts his book with the, the story of a sailor who's off one degree. So he thinks he's going to South Africa and he ends up just rediscovering England. He just, and it goes in a circle and lands back in England. Like I've discovered England, guys. Check it out. And everyone's like, yeah, dude, it's been here forever. And it's just such a funny idea. He was like a real like witty, you know, he's obviously a really sharp witty guy. And he was like, I'm about to blow their minds with, he's like, this is the, this is, and he just put it together and he was like, fuck, this is orthodox Christianity.

• 1:25:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. He said he, uh, yeah, he was like, you know, he thought he was on like, he was like, I felt like I was like 10 minutes ahead of like the pulse of everything. Turned out I'm like 1800 years behind.

• 1:25:27Speaker 01

  But you do, you get older and you're all fucking sparks and fireworks. You're like, dude, I'm, and then you get old and you're just like, yeah, I'm just another old guy being like, hey, be careful before you make decisions, man. Try to think about others.

• 1:25:38Chris Williamson?

  Shut up, old man. I'm doing this my way, okay? Advice is lame.

• 1:25:41Speaker 01

  Try to think about others. Like, yeah, thanks. Thanks, dickhead.

• 1:25:45Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, yeah. And then you find out it's true.

• 1:25:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:46Chris Williamson?

  The um, The Alchemist by Paulo Coelho. That was like the first book I read. I went so long without reading a book. So I was in uni and I hated academia, even though I was okay at it, but I just got so disenchanted. Within three weeks of being in university, it's like, why am I learning about Henry Ford's Principles of Scientific Management? Like, why this is, I'm never gonna need this. So I just immediately started running parties. Was like, oh, that's sick. And that actually also teaches me business, kind of. But I became very like flippant and dismissive of any stuff, even if it was probably useful. Like, no, it's like stupid, because I've learned it from a lecturer who has never run a business, right? Which is the interesting thing about typical business courses. Everyone goes to think I'm going to learn how to run a business, being taught by people who don't run businesses.

• 1:26:31Speaker 01

  Dude, it's the business theory, guys. I went to school for business as well, and I was kind of like, so you're a doctor in business?

• 1:26:38Chris Williamson?

  Why are you not in business? Should you not be? That would be like finding out that you're learning from a doctor, a surgeon or something.

• 1:26:46Speaker 01

  Or like a research doc. It's like getting surgery by a research doctor. You're kind of like, alright, dude. Yeah, those guys, that was a, so yeah, that's sorry. That made me laugh. I had a similar experience being like, what the fuck?

• 1:26:58Chris Williamson?

  But anyway, so I like, I go through university and I'm like, oh, this fucking doesn't really, I don't really understand what it is that I'm learning. And then I get out on the other side and I haven't read a book in, for like Harry Potter was like the last book I read when I was 14 or something.

• 1:27:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:14Chris Williamson?

  And then I go to do Love Island, that reality TV thing, and you have a week of media lockdown, where they need to release to the press who's going on the show, but they don't want any of the people that are going on the show to know the other people that are going on the show. So they basically have a guy that supervises you and lives with you for a week. And you go and do all of your interviews with the TV and the radio and the press people. And then he watches you at all times and you're living in, it was Palmer Mallorca, so the south coast of Mallorca. And you have a little geographic area that you're allowed to move in with your chaperone, and he follows you 24 hours a day. And then all of the other people that are on the show have got different territories,

• 1:27:59Chris Williamson?

  and they go to different gyms at different times to make sure that there's no chance that you would overlap each. It's really crazy. It's fucking wild. It's like a military operation. And while I was there, they're taking your phone off you and you're not allowed to access the internet. You can't even go to newsagents. You're not allowed to go into a newsagents on your own in cases. You know, there's an English newspaper that's about to say, the new series of this thing, and here's the people that are there or whatever. And so I was like, I've got nothing to do. And all I've done is message people on WhatsApp like, hey, mate, are you coming out tonight for a decade? All I've done is that. Which is probably not too dissimilar to your career. And then, as I've got this, my mum gave me this book. She said, you should read this while you're away. So I read it. And have you read The Alchemist?

• 1:28:38Speaker 01

  I have. I read it a while ago.

• 1:28:40Chris Williamson?

  Fucking psychedelic trip to read it. Anyway, all of that, all of that long diatribe is to say, the lesson from that book is going on a journey and ending up at the same place that you started is not the same as having never left. And I think that that's kind of cool, because it can suck to realize, damn, I wasted a long time trying to relearn a thing that I already knew.

• 1:29:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:05Chris Williamson?

  Traveling the seas to come back and go England again.

• 1:29:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:11Chris Williamson?

  And that, that made me feel less like I wasted my time. So you kind of learned that a bunch of experiments that you thought might be right were wrong. And now, okay, like, yeah, you're back at the place that you started, but at least you've gotten rid of all of the things that you thought that might have sucked.

• 1:29:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:29Chris Williamson?

  That might be good for you.

• 1:29:30Speaker 01

  That's also just like, there's no emphasis, I would say, on people's interior whatsoever. It's like, you know, it's like work, get a thing, get a job, do this, da da. But there's, at least in American school, there's no class, there's nothing being like, hey, you know, if you feel this way all the time, maybe think about this. Like, it's, I would say, because if in the day I put probably, you know, 95% of my day into like getting stuff done, blah, blah, blah. Usually it was like 100% and 0% of like stopping, not even meditating to be like, I fucking meditated today. But like, just go for a walk, chill, try to like calm myself, just focus on like what's going on inside of myself. And it's like, dude, it's just, I would say it's, I mean, it's not as important, because like if you just like, you could meditate yourself.

• 1:30:15Chris Williamson?

  You need to do stuff.

• 1:30:16Speaker 01

  You need to do stuff. I'm not being one of those guys where you don't have to do anything. But I really think you need like 10% of your day of being like, even if it's like 10 minutes every day of like, slow down, maybe like write your thoughts out, do anything to like try to figure out why you're doing what you're doing that day. And like, what are you feeling like that day? Why are you feeling that? You know, what's the plan here? And I've never done that. I don't know many other people who really do it at all.

• 1:30:41Chris Williamson?

  Well, they're trying to fix the problem by just, I'll just throw enough shit at the wall and maybe some of it'll like get through me.

• 1:30:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:30:48Chris Williamson?

  We did this fucking, it would have been so funny to have put Matt on the episode with Joe, Dr. K and Connor. So we had three master coaches, like one was a monk in an ashram, another has gone to Tibet and done the ghee, fucking Ayurvedic medicine, another one's coached tens of thousands of guys with Jungian psychoanalytical theory and shadow work and all of this stuff. And we had them around this table and they basically came to that, which was like, you should spend some time being aware of why you're doing the things that you're doing. If you're not, you're kind of just like in the dark, trying to find stuff in a bedroom, like picking up stuff. It's like, okay, this isn't it. And you don't even know what you want. You don't know where you're going. So it is kind of, it does kind of come back around that way.

• 1:31:31Chris Williamson?

  But the reason I said about the university thing, it's like people give so much shit to you going to uni or having a nine to five. Like, university for me ruled, even if I hated the actual course that I did and didn't learn anything from these lecturers. And then the times that I've had nine to fives, I knew it wasn't going to be forever, but it's like, that also was like kind of nice. I don't know, being disparaging and saying, oh, you need to Lone Ranger, make your own way in the world thing is kind of embarrassing. Oh, let me give you this. This was so, so embarrassing. So I went to Bali and did the show at the back end of the Australia tour at the start of this year. Met up with a friend that used to work for me in nightlife and she was out there doing nutrition coaching,

• 1:32:15Chris Williamson?

  you know, hormone optimization, and this is how to work with your body and stuff. And she'd done some courses online. Used to work in finance in London. She said, you know what it is? I earn like five grand a month and I'm the happiest I've ever been. And I used to live in London and have all of these things and whatever. And I was like, okay, tell me how your business works. She says, oh, well, I coach people over WhatsApp, one on one. I was thinking, how much do you charge? She said, however much it is. I was like, that's stupid. What you need is you need to have a big website, you need to have a funnel, and you need to have a low level deal. And the low level deal is your squeeze page. And once you've got them in, it's like $5 or $10 or whatever. So you need to make a lead magnet to get their email addresses. Once you've got their email, then you'll upsell them to the small course. And then you've got your mid-level course. And your mid-level course, you don't need to look after. And that's sort of where most of the people are going to be. But then you've got your one on one, and your one on one is going to be an upsell.

• 1:32:58Chris Williamson?

  But that's going to be like, you know, a grand or a couple of grand. So you need to have a sales call for that. That means you're probably going to need to learn sales. And then you need to, you know, if you scale up a bit more, you're going to need to get people to do sales. You'll need to do pages. You need to learn how Facebook ads work. And I was watching myself go like, I stopped. I was like, what the fuck are you doing? She's literally just told you she's the happiest that she's ever been. And you're like, hey, let me curse you with the same problem that every person in history has said not to do. It was so insane.

• 1:33:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:23Chris Williamson?

  I watched myself go like, and I paused and I was like, actually just disregard everything that I just said. Like, you should just, whatever you've done, like, you've already done it. And here's me going like, that's stupid. Like, this is what you need to do.

• 1:33:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, no.

• 1:33:34Chris Williamson?

  So dumb.

• 1:33:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like you need to scale this out of the biggest thing ever. Although I say some of that too, is like, if I do have any level of expertise in anything, I'm so happy to dump that, like especially, you know, I don't know your relationship. If she's kind of a babe, I'd be like, let me tell you about something I know. But no, it's the same thing. Like, here's what you gotta do. You gotta da da da da. And it's like, I'm good, man. Like, I'm, I just told you I'm good.

• 1:33:57Chris Williamson?

  I'm chilling.

• 1:33:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. No, I suffer from a similar thing. Well, I'll just completely dump stuff on people.

• 1:34:02Chris Williamson?

  What's this private investigator thing? Was that like a part of your history?

• 1:34:05Speaker 01

  I was a PI, very briefly.

• 1:34:07Chris Williamson?

  Right.

• 1:34:07Speaker 01

  I was a PI. Yeah, well, it was, so I.

• 1:34:10Chris Williamson?

  Hang on. So you went from

• 1:34:13Speaker 01

  It was wild.

• 1:34:14Chris Williamson?

  Being a person on one side of the law to being somebody presumably that kind of assists?

• 1:34:18Speaker 01

  PI, well, yeah, it's more insurance companies, honestly.

• 1:34:22Chris Williamson?

  Okay.

• 1:34:22Speaker 01

  So.

• 1:34:23Chris Williamson?

  What's the process of becoming a licensed private investigator?

• 1:34:26Speaker 01

  That was actually kind of a sweet, so I knew somebody who was. So they kind of just like let me do it. And they kind of give you a little thing like, yo, if cops come up and bother you, just show them this thing.

• 1:34:34Chris Williamson?

  So nothing? You're telling me, basically?

• 1:34:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, you could get your real thing, but I didn't have like a real license. I was just doing kind of like PI grunt work. So they give you like a little fake, you know, here, here, do this. And like show, if someone comes up to bother you, be like, hey, I'm working with these guys. So you have like something to flash the cops.

• 1:34:49Chris Williamson?

  Okay.

• 1:34:50Speaker 01

  Because they'll call the cops on you. They'll be like, why? This person's been sitting in the driveway. I thought it'd be a lot more exciting than it was. It was very boring. I did it for two days and I stopped. I had to sit outside like a fucking warehouse. And like, they're like, here's a grainy photo of a guy. I had to just sit there and I like, you know, I had to like wait for the shift to see if it was like the guy came out. But it was like, I, it was just hard to even distinguish. I had like the grainy photo of a black guy, and then like 12 black guys came out of the building. And I was just like, fuck.

• 1:35:21Speaker 01

  It was winter time. Everyone was wearing hats and scarves and shit. I was like, bro, I can't, I gotta get like, I need to get like up to face to face to even have a shot. So I just sat there and read books for like two days. And then I told my buddy, I was like, bro, I can't.

• 1:35:32Chris Williamson?

  This isn't for me.

• 1:35:33Speaker 01

  This isn't for me.

• 1:35:33Chris Williamson?

  Take your badge back.

• 1:35:34Speaker 01

  Dude, he was showing me like fucking spy watches and shit when I went in there. I'm thinking I'm going to be in a bar, like recording conversations. I was in my car just for like 12 hours.

• 1:35:43Chris Williamson?

  Just reading.

• 1:35:43Speaker 01

  Reading books. Then I'd come up and like, oh shit, they did a shift change. I was a terrible private eye.

• 1:35:51Speaker 01

  It was one of my, yeah, it was one of my many jobs. That was, that was two days. And I would have jobs too during my whole career of, I would say mainly selling weed. It was like, I would have good time. I have booms and busts within that. So then during the bust, I'd go get a job. So I would kind of like constantly be doing like multiple things.

• 1:36:09Chris Williamson?

  Sell drugs, make money, get robbed, take job.

• 1:36:12Speaker 01

  Yep. Save money, buy drugs. If I can't get them fronted, or if I can't get them fronted, I'd have to save up money again. And then, yeah, start over again. And then I would get the job when I knew I had enough money from weed. I would start trying to find weed customers at my job and then I would quit the job.

• 1:36:28Speaker 01

  And then I would leave.

• 1:36:30Chris Williamson?

  The Princess Peach Alien sounds like heaven compared with that.

• 1:36:33Speaker 01

  It's the best. Dude, it's like, yeah, that was the big thing. When I had kids, I remember, because I had such like a weird anxiety and fixation over like, what's my job? And I, once I had kids, I remember the guy came in to change, like, I was in like the hospital room. And the guy came in and changed the paper towels out of the dispenser. And I was like, oh dude, I could, I could do that for all I give a fuck. Yeah, I don't care. It's like, it like, it all made sense to me where I'm like, hey, just get a job, dude. So you have money to do all this other important stuff, rather than being like blinded by like my job is my entire world.

• 1:37:01Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, or fighting raccoons and hoping that you're gonna fucking scare them away. I don't, I just can't, I can't do it. I can't do it. Dude.

• 1:37:09Speaker 01

  Dude.

• 1:37:09Chris Williamson?

  Give you the bets.

• 1:37:10Speaker 01

  Thank you, man. Appreciate you.

• 1:37:11Chris Williamson?

  What have you got coming up? Where should people go?

• 1:37:13Speaker 01

  Oh, um, I have a bunch of shows coming up. MattMcCusker.com. Let me see, I have, I have one, there's one, Newark is the one I gotta really move some tickets to. But either way, just go to MattMcCusker.com for stand-up, Matt and Shane's secret podcast, the whole, the whole shebang.

• 1:37:28Chris Williamson?

  Sick. Appreciate you, man.

• 1:37:29Speaker 01

  Thank you, man.

• 1:37:30Chris Williamson?

  All right. Goodbye, my beauties. Dude.

• 1:37:32Speaker 01

  Fucking awesome.

• 1:37:32Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, it was fun.

• 1:37:33Speaker 04

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