Caller: “My Husband Hid $50,000 of Debt”

❤️ Preorder Building the Marriage You Want today and get $100+ in bonus items. On today’s episode, we hear about: A woman wondering if she can trust her husband again A mom struggling as an empty nester A man tired of coming home to a messy house Next Steps: 💬 Get the free Conflict Game Plan by Dr. John Delony. 📋 Get on the same page before the week begins. Download Dr. John Delony’s free weekly marriage check-in. 🔥 Microhabits for a better marriage. Download the Together app. ❤️Join Dr. John Delony at Money & Marriage Getaway. 📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or send us a message. 📚 Building a Non-Anxious Life 📝 Anxiety Test 📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards 💭 John’s Free Guided Meditation 🤘🏼 The Dr. John Delony Show Merch Episode Chapters: 00:00 Intro 01:01 Can I Ever Trust My Husband Again? 22:44 Being an Empty Nester Is Harder Than I Thought 39:10 Why Can’t My Wife Keep the House Clean? Connect With Our Sponsors: Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp. Go to Capstone Wellness to learn more. Get started today with Churchill Mortgage. Equal Housing Lender • NMLS ID 1591 • NMLSConsumerAccess.org Get up to 20% off with code DELONY at Cozy Earth. Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. Visit Hallow for a 90-day free trial. Visit Helix Sleep for special offers! Working knives for working people—go to Montana Knife Company to see what’s available now! Explore Poncho Outdoors! Get 25% off your order at Thorne. Visit Zander Insurance or call 1-800-356-4282 for your free instant quote today. Explore More From Ramsey Network: 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💰 George Kamel 📈 EntreLeadership Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Speaker 00

  He took out a $50,000 HELOC against our house and refuses to provide an accounting of where this money has gone. We're seeking counseling, but there's still a lot of pushback.

• 0:20Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, I mean, counseling's not gonna help right now.

• 0:29Dr. John Delony?

  What up, what up, what up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. So glad you're with us. Talking about your marriages, your life, your life, your jobs, your kids, your mental and emotional health, whatever you've got going on. I'm glad you're here. We're gonna figure out what's the next right move for you, for your family, for whatever you've got going on in your life. If you want to be on this show, and you, unlike me, know how the internet's work, you can click the link in the show notes and fill out the form, and it will go to Kelly, and she will get you on the show. Let's go up to Raleigh, North Carolina, and let's talk to Elizabeth. Hey, Elizabeth, what's going on?

• 1:06Speaker 00

  Thank you for taking the time to speak with me today. I'm obviously really nervous. I'm going to articulate as clearly as possible, but I-

• 1:17Dr. John Delony?

  You will be the only one articulating clearly on this show. I'm a mess, so you're good.

• 1:23Speaker 00

  I need help figuring out how to protect myself and my son financially, and whether trust can be rebuilt in my marriage.

• 1:34Dr. John Delony?

  What happened?

• 1:37Speaker 00

  My husband came to me at the beginning of this summer, and a couple of days after us talking about planning for a second child, told me that he was... he took out a $50,000 HELOC against our house. And at the time, we weren't married, so I did not have to sign on it. He told me it was gonna be a $20,000 loan, so we could renovate his old

• 2:16Speaker 00

  home and then sell, and after that, pay the loan off immediately. It was a very straightforward plan. And come to find out, he did not pay off the loan with the proceeds of selling the house, and will not, and refuses to provide an accounting of where this money has gone.

• 2:49Dr. John Delony?

  How long have you all been together?

• 2:52Speaker 00

  We have been married for just two years.

• 2:55Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 2:58Dr. John Delony?

  Where do you think that money's gone?

• 3:04Speaker 00

  To be honest, I... there are so many worries of, I don't know what would be worse, if it was spent on uselessness, or if it was just so poorly managed. And he does like to have his toys, like cars and boats and things like that, that have, you know, been sold and bought and sold and bought. And I think, I don't know. I don't know.

• 3:42Dr. John Delony?

  So-

• 3:43Speaker 00

  And there's a lot of embarrassment on my part for trusting my husband to manage at least this side of finances. And it's, I've... we're seeking counseling, but it's, there's still a lot of pushback.

• 4:05Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, I mean, counseling's not gonna help right now. Because you have somebody that's looking you in the eye and saying, "Yeah, I lied to your face, and I'm not telling you what, how I lied. And I don't care about the agreement we made. I'm not doing X, Y, and Z." I mean, y'all go to counseling all day long. If you want to just Venmo Kelly that money, you can, but y'all are just gonna go and talk in a circle.

• 4:30Speaker 00

  Yes, that seems to be what's happening.

• 4:32Dr. John Delony?

  Because reestablishing trust is somebody sitting down saying, "I violated your trust. I cheated on you. I took out a loan behind your back. I lied about how much, whatever, and I was wrong," and graciously asking for a path back. And that's... you can't reestablish trust with somebody who's not interested in your trust. He's interested in getting his own way.

• 4:59Speaker 00

  Right.

• 5:02Dr. John Delony?

  What concerns me, I mean, obviously, a deceitful loan, I call that financial infidelity. He cheated on you. He just did it with y'all's money. What concerns me the most is not that. What concerns me the most is you have... and the reason I ask that question first is you don't know where that money went. And if there was a shiny new car that pulled up, or a shiny new boat that pulled up, you would have some inkling. But if my gut is right, you've wondered for a while if there's somebody else. Is that fair?

• 5:42Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 5:43Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 5:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:47Dr. John Delony?

  I'm sorry. You're not dumb for trusting your husband.

• 5:52Speaker 00

  Oh, I feel like it.

• 5:53Dr. John Delony?

  I know.

• 6:01Dr. John Delony?

  So what's your next move?

• 6:06Speaker 00

  Well, I was... I didn't really want to give this a full shot for my son, for us, to try and make it work. Try, at least, you know, give my best to say that I've done everything that I can, but I don't... I don't see how there's any moving forward if he's refusing to come forth with information.

• 6:39Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. I mean, you can... I mean, you've heard me use this analogy before, but after finding out your husband deceived you to the tune of $50,000, by the way that you know of, the house y'all had, the marriage you had is over. And if you are trying to rebuild a new marriage, and every time you stack up a brick, he takes the brick down,

• 7:09Dr. John Delony?

  it's not even that he's not helping. He's actively taking the bricks down as you stack them.

• 7:17Speaker 00

  Right.

• 7:17Dr. John Delony?

  You can keep doing that, but it's futile, right? And here's the part that always just makes me shake my head, is when men or women make choices like this financially, it's like, a divorce will... I mean, you go through divorce proceeding, there's gonna be forensic accounting of where that money went. It's gonna come out.

• 7:45Speaker 00

  Right.

• 7:46Dr. John Delony?

  I mean, the truth will be revealed. His text messages and his WhatsApp messages and all that stuff's gonna be in his private Facebook messages. All that's gonna be discoverable.

• 8:01Dr. John Delony?

  So if you're caught, you're caught, you're caught. It's best to lay it all on the table and say, "Here's who I've been, and here's who I want to become. I hate this for you." This is probably my top two or three least favorite conversations to have in the world, because I hate this for you.

• 8:20Speaker 00

  While I, I suppose, educate myself on next steps of what to take.

• 8:32Dr. John Delony?

  The path for you is to be very clear, and I personally am not ever clear in these moments. I've never had something like this happen, but when there's... I've got a big thing that I feel really hurt, or really deceived, or really frustrated, or really angry, one of my go-tos is I have to get a couple of people in my life that I trust to sit down with me, so that they can see something clearly when I'm clouded by big emotions, big feelings. Like, you're talking about feeling shamed, feeling embarrassed, like, those things are big, and they cloud next right steps often. So having one or two people that you trust to the moon and back by your side, and you being clear about, "Here's

• 9:14Dr. John Delony?

  what must be true. If we're gonna build, rebuild a marriage together, I need to see this, and this, and this, and this," and it may be that you write it down and hand it to him. That way, that way, you can know I was respectful, and I was super, super clear.

• 9:37Speaker 00

  As we always say- I have asked for these things before.

• 9:40Dr. John Delony?

  Do what?

• 9:42Speaker 00

  I have asked for bank accounts and accountings of financials, and he refused to show them to me.

• 9:57Dr. John Delony?

  Tell me how that conversation goes.

• 10:01Speaker 00

  He told me that he wanted me to trust him to take care of the situation, and I respectfully responded with, "I don't think I can do that right now. And if we're partners, I need to be informed as a partner," and excuses were made, and the conversation went round and round and round, and-

• 10:34Dr. John Delony?

  So I want you to-

• 10:35Speaker 00

  ...made it very clear.

• 10:36Dr. John Delony?

  I want you to begin to change your language, okay?

• 10:39Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 10:39Dr. John Delony?

  I want you to work on, and this is gonna be hard, I mess this up all the time. I want you to, the best you can, no longer say, "I can't." Because whenever, like, "I can't move forward unless you give me this information," it can be perceived as a challenge. "I bet I can get you to." What I want you to do is take more ownership language, which is, "I won't." "I could, but I'm not going to."

• 11:15Dr. John Delony?

  If you have chosen to blow up our marriage,

• 11:19Dr. John Delony?

  I want to be a part of the rebuild.

• 11:25Dr. John Delony?

  And I won't continue rebuilding. Not that I can't, I won't. Because I could, you could, you could sit there and stack brick all day long. You could put your head back in the sand and just go forward with life. And pretend he doesn't have somebody on the side, pretend he's not struggling with gambling, pretend he's would rather have shiny toys than a college fund for your kid. You can pretend all that's just the way it's going to be. You can do that.

• 12:01Dr. John Delony?

  But you can choose not to also. And choosing not to comes with a ton of consequences, right?

• 12:08Speaker 00

  Right.

• 12:09Dr. John Delony?

  Because rent is expensive and I don't know what your work, do you work outside the home?

• 12:15Speaker 00

  I stay at home and work part-time.

• 12:21Speaker 00

  And our finances are not combined.

• 12:25Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 12:30Dr. John Delony?

  So you have to go into this very wide-eyed, which again, you're going to need one or two girlfriends, people that you trust that walk alongside you.

• 12:38Dr. John Delony?

  Because you're going to get a full-time job, you're going to get a place to live. If that's the route you take, or he's going to have to get a place to live.

• 12:48Dr. John Delony?

  And you have to sit down with an attorney and say, here's what's happened and here's what I've asked for and here's what's been rejected. And so here's what I'd like to explore.

• 13:01Dr. John Delony?

  So the next right steps in order is be very clear about what you want and what you are going to do. Get some people that you trust that are not on your payroll, that are in your life.

• 13:14Dr. John Delony?

  And then to get somebody who will be an advocate for you, which is what a good lawyer is.

• 13:22Dr. John Delony?

  And saying, I did everything I could, saying, I wanted to make sure I turned over every rock. That is you looking at him and saying, here, like we've talked, we've gone round and round. Here is what must be true for you to reestablish trust with me because you broke our trust, not me.

• 13:42Dr. John Delony?

  You are continuing to break trust, not me.

• 13:49Dr. John Delony?

  And trust in a dating relationship that turns into a marriage is earned by, is he or she going to show up when we said they were going to? Is he or she respond emotionally, maturely, when things go wrong? Do they, do they seek repair after we get in a disagreement or a fight? Or what, like you establish trust little by little over time and then you get married. And so I'll tell you again, I know it feels that way. And if you can't trust your spouse, you can't, I mean,

• 14:19Dr. John Delony?

  the whole, you can't have a marriage without two things, trust and safety.

• 14:23Dr. John Delony?

  And right now, you don't have either of those things.

• 14:26Speaker 00

  Since he's told me about this information, it's

• 14:31Speaker 00

  been a very long anxious summer.

• 14:33Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 14:38Dr. John Delony?

  And so the path through anxiousness is right through it.

• 14:44Dr. John Delony?

  Maybe spend some time writing what you are truly anxious about. Finding a place to live, paying bills.

• 14:53Dr. John Delony?

  Going through a contentious divorce, like be very clear about those things.

• 15:02Dr. John Delony?

  And I hate to sound so clinical about it, but otherwise it gets super clouded up.

• 15:09Dr. John Delony?

  And it feels overwhelming and then today becomes next year becomes five years from now.

• 15:15Speaker 00

  That's what I'm afraid of.

• 15:17Dr. John Delony?

  Because your body is still stuck in the beginning of the summer.

• 15:27Speaker 00

  I just think

• 15:30Speaker 00

  a lot of my judgment is clouded

• 15:36Speaker 00

  by the fact that we were, I guess I'm just mourning the child that we were talking about having.

• 15:44Dr. John Delony?

  There you go. Yeah.

• 15:50Dr. John Delony?

  I don't know that that's clouded judgment, that's just grief. And you're right to be sad.

• 16:01Dr. John Delony?

  Another thing I would do before lunchtime today, and we're talking in the morning here.

• 16:07Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 16:08Dr. John Delony?

  I would pull my credit report. And I think it's mycreditreport.com or something like that, but you can get all three credit reports. They're for free and they'll email them to you. And you can put a freeze on your credit. That way nobody can take out loans against you without your permission.

• 16:26Dr. John Delony?

  But you can at least see what are you on the hook for? What has been taken out in your name?

• 16:34Dr. John Delony?

  And then an attorney will tell you.

• 16:36Speaker 00

  I was under the impression that I, no one could take out a loan without my signature on it.

• 16:41Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, honey, you're right, but the number of spouses that I've talked to over the years whose spouse takes out loans in their kids' names and their, I mean,

• 16:54Dr. John Delony?

  it's, it's pretty easy to do.

• 16:58Dr. John Delony?

  But this is one of those things where you can begin to know, like facts are your friends here.

• 17:08Dr. John Delony?

  I know financially, I've got nothing else that I owe. Or you might find that you have a truck payment with your name on it. Or a boat payment with your name on it. Or another 10.

• 17:16Speaker 00

  I have checked recently and I, I didn't, I had, as in a couple of weeks ago.

• 17:23Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 17:24Speaker 00

  Do not have anything in my name.

• 17:26Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Great. That's, that's one of those things. I want to check that fear off. Okay, good. And then an attorney will tell you, here's what as community property, here's what you will be on the hook for when it comes to mortgage or other things. Maybe he put the mortgage in his name because he's that kind of guy. But you have a whole. You have a whole bunch of really hard decisions to make in front of you. And I can't in good conscience or ethically take those decisions from you. You've got to own whether you stay in this thing. You've got to own whether you make demands of him. You've got to own whether you choose to leave this thing. I can't take that from you. But I will with all my guts suggest that you get some people in your corner. Tell them everything that's gone on, all of it.

• 18:12Dr. John Delony?

  Your concerns about him having other people, other, other romantic interests, your concerns about money, your concerns about what's his honesty, all of those things. And have people in your life that can help see through the smoke when it, when it all feels too much. And

• 18:33Dr. John Delony?

  get a good reputable attorney in your area that can walk you through, here's the, here's the, here's your responsibilities, here's the truth, here's the this, here's the that, all that stuff.

• 18:46Dr. John Delony?

  I hate this, hate this, hate this for you. My gut tells me that this is, there's questions you don't want to ask because you're terrified of the answers. And I would suggest you write those questions down because that's where you have to head. You've got to get to the bottom of those questions.

• 19:06Dr. John Delony?

  I'm so sorry, sister. Thank you for calling. I wish I had better news for you, but I'm grateful for the call. When we come back, a woman asks why she's struggling so much with being an empty nester. We'll be right back.

• 19:19Dr. John Delony?

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• 20:03Dr. John Delony?

  Xander shops the top-rated companies to find the best coverage options for your needs and your budget. And you'll find out covering both of you probably costs a lot less than you think it will. With term life from Xander, you have peace of mind that your family will always be taken care of. I've used Xander for most of my adult life and my wife and I sleep better knowing that both of us are covered with life insurance and we both know that our family will be protected. What you do is irreplaceable. But if something happens to you, term life insurance helps protect your family, no matter whose name is on the paycheck. Get this done today by going to xander.com or call 1-800-356-4282 for your free quote.

• 20:46Dr. John Delony?

  That's xander with a Z.com or click the link in the description.

• 20:53Dr. John Delony?

  All right, we are back. Hey, I got two things for you. Number one, preorder my brand new book, Building the Marriage You Want. It is everything I know about marriage, all in one big volume. And it answers everything from how we got here, why does marriage feel so impossible, and what do we do next? And I talk about communication, I talk about conflict, I talk about sex, talk about money, talk about being married with kids. How do you still like each other when you've got all this stuff going with kids? I talk about all of it. And I also want to just call out, I know it's tough to say, hey, send me $25 on a preorder. And I'm gonna, by the way, I'm gonna send you a bunch of free stuff, but send me 25 bucks and in a few months, I'll

• 21:35Dr. John Delony?

  mail you the book. I know that's a tall order. It really helps me out. It helps the book with distribution. It helps get that book out in front of more people, the more we pre-sale. So, I'm literally asking you to do me a favor. If you're gonna buy the book anyway, if you preorder it now, it makes such a huge difference in so many different places. Go to john deloney.com and you can preorder that now. And here's the second thing, just a gift I've got to you. People have been asking for my conflict framework, right, that I adapted from the great Terry Reel and several others. If you keep having the same arguments in your home, in your marriage, over and over and over again, if you keep having these big feelings and just home is a tense place,

• 22:15Dr. John Delony?

  this is the conflict framework. If you actually want to solve a problem. Long two or three hour conversations, they can feel cathartic, but they don't ever solve the thing. This conflict framework, it's completely for free. Click the link in the show notes and I'll send you the Connected Conflict Game Plan, and you can begin solving challenges in your marriage. This is the exact same thing that my wife and I do on a regular basis, to solve challenges in our own home. All right, let's go out to Kansas City, Missouri, and talk to Samantha. Hey Samantha, what's up?

• 22:48Speaker 02

  Hey, Dr. John, I'm gonna show my age here. I used to listen to Dr. Laura pretty religiously back in the day.

• 22:55Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, dude, the OG.

• 22:57Speaker 02

  The OG, for sure. And I appreciate your gentleness with families. So appreciate everything that you do.

• 23:06Dr. John Delony?

  Thank you so much.

• 23:07Speaker 02

  Hey, my situation is, I have a 21-year-old who is a junior in college, and then our youngest, he just left for college about a month ago. So, here we are. We are empty nesters, and it's not feeling like I thought it would. You know, in the hard parenting years, you know, you fantasize about the future, about being empty nesters, and you just have all these images of what it's gonna be like. And wow, it's just, I know I'll get there, but for right now, it's not. It's like,

• 23:44Speaker 02

  I'm sad, and I know that's normal, but I'm ruminating. Like, I'm like, I keep replaying all the good times, and all four of us in the house, and you know, now the house is quiet, and

• 24:01Speaker 02

  I, my husband's being so patient with me. But I'm not happy about it. I'm sad. I want them back. And I want us all under one roof.

• 24:13Dr. John Delony?

  You know this, but sad is right.

• 24:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:17Dr. John Delony?

  Sad is right. Have you done that, I'm gonna be mean right now, have you done that thing where you are walking down the hall, and you just look in that empty room?

• 24:25Speaker 02

  Um, yes. Yeah, yeah. And it's, you know, we, I don't hear them tromping upstairs, and telling them to keep it down, and...

• 24:36Dr. John Delony?

  You're missing that, like, the, being six o'clock, and that morning cereal is glued to the bowl.

• 24:43Speaker 02

  Yes, yes. Just the chaos of the house, you know, which you don't think you're gonna miss, but I do. I miss it. And I feel, I don't know how to step into this new life, when I'm like clinging so hard to memories, you know, of us all here together.

• 25:08Dr. John Delony?

  So, I want you to tattoo two words onto your forearm, okay? Don't really get this tattoo. Don't really do that. But unless you want to just be a gangster, and if you do get this tattoo, send us a picture, and I'll post it up, because you'll be a legend. It's, the two words are, "both and."

• 25:32Dr. John Delony?

  "We're both going to be very sad, and I have to be responsible for choosing things that bring me joy now."

• 25:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:45Dr. John Delony?

  And I've worked with college students and their families for almost my entire career. So, I'll tell you a couple of things I've heard over the years, okay? And by the way, I have a 16-year-old. I'm already in pre-morning. I did not expect this at all. Not at all, right? If you heard some of the deals I've been trying to make with him to go to college locally, like, I'm embarrassed, like, I'm going against everything I've taught every parent for 20 years, right? And I'm like, hey, man. And he's like, Dad, no, I gotta go, I gotta go fly. And I'm like, I know, but you could fly right here. And how about a whole bunch of money? I'm trying. I'm with you. Here's a couple of things I've heard over the years. Number one, the silence

• 26:29Dr. John Delony?

  exposes the state of my marriage.

• 26:34Dr. John Delony?

  And we aren't as close, or we don't have the common, I was gonna say common enemy, we don't have the common mission of just surviving every day anymore. And I've seen couples, like, essentially wipe the deck clean and start dating again.

• 26:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:53Dr. John Delony?

  The phrase I've heard the most often is, who are you? Like, I don't even know what you like anymore. I don't know what you're into anymore. I don't know what, like, hobbies. I don't know what books you read. Like, I don't know you anymore. And that can be a terrifying thing, or that can be so fun.

• 27:09Dr. John Delony?

  I've heard the "I should'ves," right? And people can drown themselves in "I should'ves." I should have been more of this. I should have been more patient. I should have, I should have, I should have, I should have. And I'll tell you, that's a natural thing, but it's also a net negative. It doesn't solve anything moving forward, right? And the third thing I've heard is, especially from, have you been a stay-at-home mom, or have you had a full-time job?

• 27:38Speaker 02

  Well, I was a stay-at-home mom for 16 years, and then I've, you know, working full-time now for a couple.

• 27:43Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. I've heard, especially from moms,

• 27:48Dr. John Delony?

  a complete and utter wipeout of identity. Who am I now?

• 27:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:53Dr. John Delony?

  And I thought my role was, dot, dot, dot, and that role feels like it is gone. It's not gone. You're still a mom, and you're always gonna be those boys' mom forever and ever and ever and ever. But it's gonna be different now. And instead of driving the car, now you're in the backseat of their life, being a cheerleader. And of course, you're a mom, so you need to do some backseat driving. They need to be grown up, and roll their eyes when mom's like, well, you need to, like, that's part of it, right? But you beginning to ask yourself a scary question, which is, who am I gonna be now? And identity questions are often wrapped up in a couple of things. We can get stuck in asking, who am I gonna be? Who am I gonna be? And we can, now

• 28:36Dr. John Delony?

  we have the internets, and we can research that question for forever and ever and ever, amen. I often find people are successful figuring that out with two things, asking, who do I want to help now? Like, who am I gonna be in service of? And the second thing is, just starting to try a bunch of stuff.

• 28:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:55Dr. John Delony?

  Sign up for dance classes with your husband. Sign up for, start, we're gonna go to concerts once every two weeks. We're gonna start going for long walks at night. We are going to join a hiking club, or a, I'm gonna start taking yoga, like, whatever. And you might find three yoga sessions in, you're like, nope, not for me. But I'm gonna start doing things and get out of my head and get into my body. And you hear me say this, very rarely at the beginning, are you gonna feel like doing any of this? You're gonna feel like taking laps around your kitchen, you're gonna feel like just sitting on the couch. Ugh, right?

• 29:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

• 29:40Dr. John Delony?

  So, here's a couple.

• 29:41Speaker 02

  How do I?

• 29:41Dr. John Delony?

  Go ahead.

• 29:42Speaker 02

  No, go ahead.

• 29:42Dr. John Delony?

  You go ahead.

• 29:43Speaker 02

  Well, like, for example, like, fall break's coming up. And, you know, for, I mean, as a family, for as long as I can remember, we do fall breaks, we do spring breaks together when the kids are out of school. And, you know, now my kids have different fall breaks, and so we're not gonna get together. And I, I don't, I, so I know I'm grieving, because we're not gonna have those anymore, like they used to be, right? Like, I just don't, I don't know how to,

• 30:17Speaker 02

  I don't know how to, I can't fix it, right? It's just, it is what it is.

• 30:20Dr. John Delony?

  Well, it's not broken. It's not broken. It's exactly as it should be. And it still hurts.

• 30:28Dr. John Delony?

  Both and.

• 30:31Dr. John Delony?

  You've done an amazing job launching two young men out into the world, who know their mom loves them. Hopefully, they know their dad loves them.

• 30:41Dr. John Delony?

  And it hurts. It's the worst.

• 30:48Dr. John Delony?

  And so you asking a question of, what do I want to do for fall break? You and your husband saying, what do we want to do for fall break? And you looking at him saying, I still want us to take a fall break, even though the kids won't be here.

• 31:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:02Dr. John Delony?

  I want us to take one. What do we want to do?

• 31:06Dr. John Delony?

  Or if you find yourself, I don't want to do fall break with just you, then you all, you need to, you need to address that question, right?

• 31:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:14Dr. John Delony?

  And that goes back to the first thing, the most common thing I hear is it, the kid, the last kid leaving, either, I used to joke, like, I worked in residence life and housing for years, and I would watch parents drive away, and they would both be pumping their arms out the window. Right? And I would see cars drive out, driving one mile an hour, and they kept hitting the brake. You see the brake lights flash, like, I can't leave this parking lot because it's all over for me. And so if your marriage has been exposed of like, oh, we're going to be gross, we're going to be gross, then that's awesome. And if your marriage has been exposed to, I don't, we don't know each other anymore.

• 31:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:54Dr. John Delony?

  And we want to be gross, how do we get, how do we, what's the path back to that?

• 31:57Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, my, my husband is, he jokes, he's like, I'm, he's being patient. He's like, we're going to have sex in every room of the house.

• 32:06Dr. John Delony?

  Yes.

• 32:06Speaker 02

  Like, it's, so, I'm trying to get there, I'm trying to get there. He's, he's being really, really, really patient, but, yeah.

• 32:15Dr. John Delony?

  But, but he also may need to know, okay, sex is going to start earlier in the day, when you text me that you miss me.

• 32:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:23Dr. John Delony?

  When you pick me up from the office, and we go to, to a nice dinner, when you take me somewhere, when you, like, now that the kids aren't there to vacuum the house, you got, you got to vacuum, like.

• 32:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:33Dr. John Delony?

  I want to get here, but here was what must be true. And some of that, I hate to use this word because it's such a buzzkill, some of it is logistics.

• 32:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:40Dr. John Delony?

  Some of it, those boys, you had to tell them 14 times, but they took the trash out, and they did this, and they did that, and those, those chores are just suddenly gone, right?

• 32:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:50Dr. John Delony?

  And so is the amount of trash, right? That's gone too.

• 32:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 32:54Dr. John Delony?

  But just getting through the logistics, but a lot of that can be accomplished by just swiping the deck and saying, all right, we have a brand new marriage now, you and me. Who do we want to be now?

• 33:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:06Dr. John Delony?

  And you knowing in your guts, it's not going to, both, I'm in a season of grief, this is sad, and I get to be sad, and I'm going to start putting some things on the calendar, I'm going to start putting myself out there with friends, with, with dinners, with dancing, whatever you want to do, with fishing, I don't know what you're into, or you always like gardening, whatever, and I'm not always going to feel like it, but if I know I'm safe, I know that I'll be glad that I did that thing, I'm going to go, I'm going to go, I'm going to go ahead through it, I'm going to go ahead through with it, right?

• 33:40Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 33:42Dr. John Delony?

  But hear me say, you're not, you haven't lost your mind, you're right.

• 33:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:47Dr. John Delony?

  Everything's different now.

• 33:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:50Dr. John Delony?

  And if you want to be, any weird thing you want to do, I'm in support of, just let your kids know. So here's what I mean by that. If you want to write them a letter every week, tell them, hey, I'm not struggling with you guys being gone, so I'm going to write y'all a letter every week, I'm going to be a weird mom, and I get to do that.

• 34:11Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 34:11Dr. John Delony?

  And.

• 34:12Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 34:12Dr. John Delony?

  I'm going to make cookies and just mail them to y'all, you can throw them in the trash, just you better not tell me, you better tell me they were awesome, and, because I am a weird sad mom. And.

• 34:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:21Dr. John Delony?

  Where I see most, not most, almost all kids are like, will roll their eyes, but secretly like, yeah, you know what I mean?

• 34:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:30Dr. John Delony?

  But if you call it out, I'm being an overly dramatic mom right now, or I'm just a sad, I'm not even being dramatic, I'm just sad.

• 34:36Speaker 02

  Yeah. I, I've tried to, like, I've tried to not put my emotions on them, because I don't want them to feel like they have to, you know, cheer me up or whatever, but I love that you said that, maybe I can just give myself permission to.

• 34:49Dr. John Delony?

  Well, it's, it's, it's, here's the difference, it's you saying, here's how I feel, and here's what I'm going to do about it, not, here, I'm sad. You, you fix this 18-year-old, which he can't, right?

• 35:03Speaker 02

  Right, okay.

• 35:04Dr. John Delony?

  And so I'm going to write y'all a silly card every week.

• 35:08Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 35:09Dr. John Delony?

  And because I'm, I'm, I'm just a sad mom.

• 35:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:15Dr. John Delony?

  And.

• 35:15Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 35:16Dr. John Delony?

  That, they don't have to, all their, their only job there is to receive the card.

• 35:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, okay, okay, I like that.

• 35:23Dr. John Delony?

  And that's it.

• 35:25Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 35:28Speaker 02

  I like that.

• 35:28Dr. John Delony?

  And if you want to just destroy an 18-year-old, when you know he's coming home, just shoot him a text and say, hey, hold, before you go, I need to change the sheets, because me and your dad, dot, dot, dot, just say that. You'll ruin him, you'll ruin him.

• 35:45Dr. John Delony?

  And that, that will help me and my community of mental health professionals, because he will definitely go to therapy right after that.

• 35:55Speaker 02

  Awesome.

• 35:55Dr. John Delony?

  But we're just, we're looking for pockets of joy, and we're looking to not always feel like doing something, but we're going to, we're going to head into it. And if we get into something, and we're like, dude, I thought bowling tonight would be fun, I'm just feeling drab, you can leave, you're a grown up, you can leave, it's awesome. So, yeah, you're all, you're in the right place, a great, great call, I appreciate the call.

• 36:19Dr. John Delony?

  Just remember, you get to choose what happens next. And by the way, when you're grieving like this for something that is right, but still hurts, have, have some actions that you know don't help. If you know that just melting in front of the TV, when you get home from work at 5:00 and ordering a pizza, and just staying there till 11, five hours of just turning into goo, like, if you know that is, for all of us, that's a net negative, you're going to not sleep well, you're going to wake up grumpy, sometimes putting a list of things I'm not going to do, I'm only going to text the boys twice a week, I am going to say on Sundays, y'all better call your mom, because y'all need to call your mom, but I'm not going to hassle y'all, I'm not going to just go sit here and rot in front of the TV, I'm

• 37:04Dr. John Delony?

  going to get out and do stuff, I'm going to, whatever, but having a list of things I'm not going to do, because I know I don't feel good after them, that's, that can be important too. So, you're in the right place, I'm thankful for the call, I wish you guys the best, I think y'all have an adventurous next 20, 30, 40 years right ahead of you. We come back, a man asks how to make peace with the fact that his house will never be clean. Ooh, this will be a good one, we'll be right back.

• 37:32Dr. John Delony?

  This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Every year, you tell yourself you're going to handle this year's holidays differently, you're going to stay calmer, you're going to feel more peace, but then the same old patterns show up, the same family tensions, the same challenges you have to keeping healthy boundaries, and you find yourself cranky and tired, and even snapping at people that you love. Listen, this year can be different, you still have time to get ahead of all of the chaos, and understand what's behind your reactions, and you can develop a plan for moving through the holidays with peace. Therapy can help you build this healthier plan before you actually need it. When you're ready to have that conversation, check out BetterHelp.

• 38:14Dr. John Delony?

  BetterHelp is an online therapy platform with more than 30,000 licensed therapists across its network. This means you can find someone who can help you feel more peaceful this holiday season, help you develop a plan, or help you with whatever your needs and goals are. If the first therapist isn't the right fit, you can switch at any time for no extra cost. If you thought about trying therapy with BetterHelp, insurance options may now be available nationwide through participating providers, and eligible members have an average copay of just 23 bucks a session. Listen, you know what's coming. This year, you have time to keep calm ahead of all of the holiday chaos by preparing differently.

• 38:56Dr. John Delony?

  Go to betterhelp.com/daloni to check out your payment options. That's BetterHelp, H E L P, dot com, slash daloni, or click the link in the description.

• 39:08Dr. John Delony?

  All right, we're going to stay right here in Nashville and talk to Eddie. Hey Eddie, what's up, man?

• 39:13Speaker 03

  Hey, Dr. John, how are you?

• 39:15Dr. John Delony?

  I'm all right, brother, how are you?

• 39:17Speaker 03

  Good, good. So, my question is, my wife and I have been going back and forth on like, one issue.

• 39:25Speaker 03

  We have three little kids, and because of that, I've already given up on the house being clean, but.

• 39:33Dr. John Delony?

  How old are your kids?

• 39:35Speaker 03

  They're four, three, and six months.

• 39:38Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, dude. Yeah. You're, you're in the middle of chaos.

• 39:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:45Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 39:46Speaker 03

  So, do, do I give up on having the dishes washed, and having some basic laundry folded as well? Or how do I go about this?

• 39:56Dr. John Delony?

  I guess my first question on top of my head is, why don't you do it?

• 40:00Speaker 03

  What was that?

• 40:01Dr. John Delony?

  My first question that just popped into my head is, why don't you do it?

• 40:04Speaker 03

  So, I, I work really, really long hours, I'm almost never home.

• 40:09Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 40:11Speaker 03

  So, I, minimum 12 hours a day, it can go up to 16, 18 hours a day, just depends on what has to get done.

• 40:18Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. You're a grinder, man. What do you do for a living?

• 40:22Speaker 03

  Um, I, I, I have my own little thing, I have an e-commerce business.

• 40:27Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. So, do you, do you work from home, or do you leave the house?

• 40:31Speaker 03

  No, we had to, we moved to a warehouse.

• 40:33Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 40:34Speaker 03

  We have a ton of product, yeah.

• 40:36Dr. John Delony?

  Awesome.

• 40:38Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, so you get home, and there's three kids there, and your wife is covered in spit up, and diarrhea, and dirty diaper, it's just chaos, right?

• 40:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 40:47Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, and I, I made a faulty assumption, I'm assuming she's staying home?

• 40:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, so she, yeah, she did, she, yeah, she is a stay-at-home mom as of like, about a year ago.

• 40:56Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, okay.

• 40:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:57Dr. John Delony?

  So, um.

• 41:02Speaker 03

  Can I tell you the dynamic a little bit more?

• 41:04Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, I was about to ask about it. So tell me more.

• 41:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, so the four and three year old are both in school or daycare.

• 41:12Dr. John Delony?

  Uh huh.

• 41:13Speaker 03

  And my wife is home with a baby now. Um, my, my way of just looking at it is

• 41:21Speaker 03

  we kinda had a clean house when I used to be home and I didn't have a job and you know, I was staying at home and taking care of stuff and everything was always done. And before my wife quit her job because you know, the business was doing well, we had this discussion and we said like, if you quit your job, do you think you can handle the kids and the house? And she said, yeah, I'm gonna have so much time, right? So the only thing that's changed is that we have a baby, but it's never, we've never really had a point where the house was ever clean. And I'm not talking about toys. I don't really care about toys being all over the place. That's fine. It's just the dishes are just for me such a basic thing and some laundry. I'm like, I don't, I don't know how to press her more because

• 42:06Speaker 03

  she is doing a lot with a baby, but at the same time, she's home with a baby by herself from like nine to four, you know?

• 42:13Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. Um,

• 42:17Dr. John Delony?

  so you're saying this from a lived experience. I was a stay at home dad with two kids and I managed to get it done. Cause it feels like the cleanliness is the surface issue, but the deeper issue is, what?

• 42:35Speaker 03

  I, I just, you know, I work really hard and

• 42:38Dr. John Delony?

  And you don't think she's putting in the same effort?

• 42:42Speaker 03

  I, when a baby cries, I know she's putting in 10 times more effort.

• 42:48Speaker 03

  But that's it.

• 42:49Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 42:50Speaker 03

  I know the baby doesn't cry all day. I've, I've watched the baby, but you know, yeah.

• 42:56Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. So I, I, man.

• 43:01Speaker 03

  If you ask me, would I trade positions? Would I have, would I be a stay at home and taking care of the baby? And my wife come to work? I would say absolutely not. It's way harder to do what she's doing.

• 43:11Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 43:12Speaker 03

  But things still have to get done. You know, that's my opinion.

• 43:16Dr. John Delony?

  Totally. I agree. I agree with you. And so my, here's the,

• 43:21Dr. John Delony?

  there, so answer number one is if it's just a matter of things getting done,

• 43:29Dr. John Delony?

  is there a place where y'all can hire it out? But that to me seems like a problem y'all would have solved. It seems like the deeper issue here is you feel in your guts. And I'm not making a judgment statement. I'm not gonna be one of those people that tries to nail anybody to the wall. I just want us to be honest. I feel like I'm putting in 10 and 12 hour days. And I feel like you're not pulling your weight at home. Not saying that not raising a kid is hard and all that kind of stuff. But I think there are two or three or four hours a day where you're just scrolling your phone. And I'm making some up. Is that, is that, is that, is that the truest dynamic here?

• 44:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, I would say so.

• 44:06Dr. John Delony?

  Have you had that conversation?

• 44:10Speaker 03

  We have, and then she thinks I'm like trying to parent her.

• 44:14Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 44:16Dr. John Delony?

  Well, and that's where like a, in issues of cleanliness, right?

• 44:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:25Dr. John Delony?

  When, when you say, I want this, these dishes done,

• 44:29Dr. John Delony?

  that's what a parent says to a kid. So she's right on that. When you say, after coming in and I'm exhausted, a way you could love me, dot, dot, dot is different. Because then, because for her, the dishes might be fine. Cause she's not out of dishes yet. There's still bowls in the, in the, in the cabinet. There's still glasses in the cabinet, right?

• 44:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:51Dr. John Delony?

  Like she doesn't need the laundry done today. And when she does, she may do a marathon on any given Saturday. And in her mind, she's like, things are fine the way they are right now. I'm surviving as a mom of three tiny kids, even though two of them are gone for part of the day.

• 45:10Dr. John Delony?

  But it's, that's where you get into these like, hey, do the dishes. I mean, they're, we got dishes a lot. Like what? Versus here's a way, here's what I want. Here's a way that you could show me you love me. How can I help you so that you can help me?

• 45:27Speaker 03

  Yeah. And we've, we've had the discussion of hiring help. I'm curious to see what your thoughts on this would be. My only concern is, um, it's, it, it, it could be in the budget. But my concern is like, what are the kids gonna think? You know? I, I, I didn't grow up with a silver spoon in my mouth. I worked really hard all my life and I don't want my kids to think, oh yeah, they just have someone that comes and cleans the house and everything's taken care of. No, I, you know, when I, when I am home and my wife asks me for help, I'm glad to give it and I'm not the only one doing it. I get the kids involved. Everyone's involved in cleaning up. And that's, that's what I want the kids to grow up with as well. So.

• 46:08Dr. John Delony?

  And I get that. And, and, and I don't want you to project out onto them in that way. But I get your, I get the sentiment, right?

• 46:16Dr. John Delony?

  I, I went through some big time hand wringing when I hired someone to mow the lawn. Big time.

• 46:24Dr. John Delony?

  Big time, big time, big time. Like it, it messed me up.

• 46:28Dr. John Delony?

  So I get that. I get it. And

• 46:32Dr. John Delony?

  this is a different conversation. Cause here's the thing. If you have a wife who's struggling, she's six months postpartum, she's struggling, plus two little kids.

• 46:45Dr. John Delony?

  She, you sitting there judging her activity level is not helping the situation. You got a hurting wife here. If that's not the case,

• 46:56Dr. John Delony?

  and you're seeing this as a judgment issue, I'm working hard, so you need to do this stuff. Then y'all have values differences that y'all need to get to the bottom of, because it's gonna fracture your whole marriage.

• 47:07Dr. John Delony?

  Because you're walking around thinking, and again, I, I don't think anybody's doing this nefariously, but they're, I can hear it in your voice. I'm doing more than you. And anytime a married couple gets into scorekeeping, the, the relationship you had doesn't exist anymore. Now it's you verse each other. It's not you with each other.

• 47:28Dr. John Delony?

  You get the difference?

• 47:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:31Dr. John Delony?

  And right now it's you verse each other. I'm doing all this, so you should be doing all of this.

• 47:37Dr. John Delony?

  I got a four and a three and a one year old and I got a wife who's drowning. I'll worry about the lessons later. I'm gonna take care of my wife.

• 47:48Dr. John Delony?

  And if that means I put in a 14 hour day and I got another hour worth of chores to do at night so that my wife can exhale, great. That'll suck for a while for everybody.

• 47:59Dr. John Delony?

  Right?

• 48:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:01Dr. John Delony?

  And if that means I'm gonna hire somebody for three hours a week to come in and just, just nuke this place and get it spotless so we can just control, delete, reset every week, every two weeks, every three weeks. Great. That's awesome, man.

• 48:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:17Dr. John Delony?

  But if you think your wife is actively like, nah, I'm not doing nothing.

• 48:24Dr. John Delony?

  I would just, I would, man, I would really challenge you on that. It could be true. It could be true.

• 48:30Speaker 03

  Yeah. I mean, we, it's not to say we've never had somebody coming in and helping. I'm not against that at all, but the thing is, you know, with three kids, the cleaning kinda has to be every day because otherwise there's just an explosion every three hours, you know? And just, just like two days ago, my wife took a nap and the kids happened to be, you know, they were home. And guess what they did? They went into the pantry. They opened all the corn nuts and our entire living room was just full of corn nuts.

• 49:01Dr. John Delony?

  Of course.

• 49:02Speaker 03

  These, these things happen all the time. Unless we have a cleaning lady every single day,

• 49:07Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 49:08Speaker 03

  the house will always be a disaster.

• 49:11Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. Cause that's what little kids do.

• 49:13Speaker 03

  Right.

• 49:14Dr. John Delony?

  Right?

• 49:15Speaker 03

  So it's not about scorekeeping really. It's just, this is a problem we've had ever since the beginning. I knew, um, you know, her parents completely the opposite of mine is their house. I, I went into their house and I actually helped them organize and helped them do things completely, complete disaster.

• 49:34Dr. John Delony?

  You sound like a delight.

• 49:38Speaker 03

  Well, that's the complete opposite, right? And my, my in-laws actually asked me to help them.

• 49:44Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 49:45Speaker 03

  But, but, uh,

• 49:48Dr. John Delony?

  I, I, here's the thing. I, I don't wanna keep going back to the way you were raised and the way she was raised. I want y'all to focus your energy on what kind of home do we wanna have right now?

• 50:01Dr. John Delony?

  And if you're sitting there thinking,

• 50:05Dr. John Delony?

  I'm bringing more value to this relationship right now, that's gonna be a big problem.

• 50:10Speaker 03

  Got it.

• 50:11Dr. John Delony?

  If you can say, I am putting in all I got and my wife is struggling, not only under the weight of, there's corn nuts everywhere, but there's fatigue and exhaustion and four year, I mean, she's been pregnant for five years straight, basically, right?

• 50:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:29Dr. John Delony?

  Um, and the weight of mom stuff and the weight of breakfasts and the weight of dinners and the weight of all the stuff. None of this, none of this wipes away like 10 cases of Costco corn nuts all over the house. Right? None of that does. None of it gets rid of the diapers and you, you have little boys, you said?

• 50:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:53Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. A three and a four year old little boy, two year old, four year old little boy. There, every room in your house has pee in it, all of them. Every room, right? And laundry and all, like,

• 51:07Dr. John Delony?

  I guess what I'm trying to gently do is point you to you and your wife clearing the deck. And not saying, this is my job, that's your job, but saying, hey, who, how do we want this house to be? And she might look at you and say, dude, when it's all clinically cleaned up and everything smells a little bit like Clorox, it makes her anxious. And you have to say, man, a way I can love my wife is to relax a little bit. And you have to be able to say, when everything is just chaos and piles and whatever, it makes me anxious. Makes me feel like I'm kind of losing my grip on stuff.

• 51:51Dr. John Delony?

  And so what are some things we can do? We can hire help. We can, I can get, we, we, I will put in another hour of when I get home, because I want my wife to be well and whole. Right? And none of that is me versus you. That's us together deciding what kind of house do we want to have? And I can just tell you from years of experience, you're never both going to land in a place. Both of you are going to be giving and taking.

• 52:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:25Dr. John Delony?

  And you're going to have to exhale, and when you walk in the door, not treat your wife like an employee or like a parent, you're going to have to walk in with your eyes wide open and say, what's the best way I can love this house? And if you go in and say, I treat your wife like an employee, like, hey, you didn't complete all of the things on your job description. Um, yeah, that's a recipe for a disaster. And that doesn't mean that she doesn't have responsibilities at home, but it's y'all getting, y'all are using pictures and words, right? You, y'all are using the same words, clean, but you have a picture of what that looks like, and she has a picture of what that looks like. And you have a calendar attached to that cleanliness, and she has a calendar attached to that cleanliness.

• 53:10Dr. John Delony?

  And that's where y'all are getting mixed up, because y'all keep saying the word clean. And so being with each other, and by the way, she feels, I mean, she's used the words, I'm not your kid. It's my house too. And she's right on that. And both of y'all as adults have responsibilities there. Have you asked her the question, how can I love you?

• 53:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, of course.

• 53:36Dr. John Delony?

  What does she say?

• 53:37Speaker 03

  And, um, she, she just likes when I'm there with her, we spend time together.

• 53:44Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 53:45Speaker 03

  And like in all the other parts of our marriage, it's, it's really, I would almost dare say, perfect.

• 53:51Dr. John Delony?

  Awesome.

• 53:52Speaker 03

  It's just a one, one spot.

• 53:53Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. So if everything else is perfect. Man, I, I would, I wouldn't burn perfection, close to perfection, to the ground with judgment. And I do think you're right to say, this gives, I want my house to be the most peaceful place in the world, which by the way, y'all have three kids under five. It's just gonna be chaos. And so you speaking in forever terms, I wouldn't do that. Because it traps you in a prison and the locks on the inside that prison. Right now, yeah, dude. I remember trying to pick up my living room with the one-year-old and my buddy was like, bro, stop, it's going to be like this for 20 years. And I was like, oh, okay. Right?

• 54:38Dr. John Delony?

  And it hasn't been, but I was, I was overdoing it. And, um, you being honest about, hey, I want this place to be, as much as we can make it inside of this hurricane that we're living in, I want it to be my, a peaceful place. And peace looks like this for me. Here's a picture of peace. How can I love you? How can I support you? How can I give you margin so that? And what you might find is she cares less about your money. And she cares less about the work hours. She cares less about this e-commerce business, and she misses her husband.

• 55:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:16Dr. John Delony?

  Or she has a different vision for her marriage, and she's kind of living in your world right now. Who knows? Or vice versa. You, y'all have talked about it forever. I'm going to hit the gas on this business. We're going to grow it, grow it, grow it. And she's not holding up her end of the bargain, but it's talking about that way at the bottom, not in a me versus you. But in a, how can I love you? Because we're friends.

• 55:40Speaker 03

  Got it. That's great.

• 55:42Dr. John Delony?

  Does that make sense?

• 55:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, 100%.

• 55:45Dr. John Delony?

  And yes, you might have two, three, four years of brother being real, real tired. And what I would tell you is, I would have you know, she's going to be tired too. And your tires are going to look different, and they're going to feel different. And you're going to have to fight the urge to say, my way is right and her way is wrong. My way is better, her way is worse. And instead say, who did we agree we were going to be? And are we both pulling our weight that we're able to pull? And there's no such thing as a 50/50 marriage. That's a false myth. It does, it's not real. It's usually 80/20, 90/10, 70/30. Occasionally, it's 45/55, and those, those seasons are rad.

• 56:29Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 56:31Dr. John Delony?

  Right? And you're going to have seasons when you're working 20 hours a day, because your business is going to suddenly scale on you. And y'all are going to have to sit down and say, okay, here's the season I'm entering into. I'm going to need some more help around here. I'm not going to be able to do this extra hour or two that I usually do at night. What does hiring some help look like now? And so if you can take judgment off the table, and be curious about stuff, how I can show up here, how we can be friends, how we can co-create the thing together, and how you can give a little, how she can give a little, and how you can say, hey, I'm worried that you're not okay. Are you all right? How can I love you well? Man, that changes everything.

• 57:13Dr. John Delony?

  But yeah, bro, you got five kids, I mean, three kids under, under five. It's just going to be for us, it's going to be winter for a while, put on the winter coats. Summer's coming, spring's coming, but it's going to be a minute. And if you can exhale in corn nuts everywhere, as just an is, man, you'll, I promise you, you'll look back on these as the good old days. And then after a long day, we're picking up corn nuts. I bet your house smelled so bad, Eddie. Thanks for the call, brother. Appreciate you. We'll be right back. All right, everyone, summer is over. I hope you had a great one. I hope you went on a vacation.

• 57:53Dr. John Delony?

  I hope you took the time to slow down and relax, because now we're back to real life. Full, overwhelming calendars, kids, school activities, racing around all over. But listen, what if there was a way you could keep that vacation going a little bit every day? There is Cozy Earth. Their bamboo sheets are like the most comfortable hotel bed you've ever slept in, except way more comfortable than that. They're breathable, they're so good at regulating your temperature. No more kicking off the covers at 2:00 a.m. And Cozier towels make you feel like you're at the spa, except it's just an ordinary Tuesday. It's at your house. My house has Cozy Earth everywhere. They offer a 100-night sleep trial on all of their bedding and a 10-year warranty on

• 58:38Dr. John Delony?

  all of their products. If you're not completely blown away, you can just return them. But listen, you are going to be completely blown away, and you're not going to return nothing. You can't stay on a permanent vacation, but you can bring a little bit of vacation home with you every single day. Go to cozylearth.com/deloney and use code DELONY for up to 20% off your entire order. That's cozylearth.com/deloney. Use code DELONY. And don't forget to take their post-purchase survey and let Cozy Earth know you heard about their amazing gear right here on this show. All right, Kelly, we're back. So we were just talking about the cleanliness levels in our marriages.

• 59:22Dr. John Delony?

  That call could have very easily been my wife calling me.

• 59:25Speaker 04

  Oh, same for us, because we are very, very different.

• 59:29Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 59:30Speaker 04

  Because we grew up very different.

• 59:31Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 59:32Speaker 04

  Um, my husband grew up, mom, you know, dad was away six months of the year in the military. Mom worked full-time, she had three kids. And let's just say, housekeeping wasn't the top order of business.

• 59:44Dr. John Delony?

  We were worried about survival.

• 59:45Speaker 04

  Exactly. I, on the other hand, I mean, I can't imagine having, if I like had a drink of water and then put this glass in the sink, that would have been unheard of.

• 59:58Dr. John Delony?

  Right, right, right.

• 59:59Speaker 04

  You didn't do that. You didn't take off your shoes and just leave them in the living room.

• 1:00:02Dr. John Delony?

  Right.

• 1:00:03Speaker 04

  And all the towels were folded the right way and facing the right direction.

• 1:00:05Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:06Speaker 04

  Yes, that's how I grew up.

• 1:00:08Dr. John Delony?

  And I, I want to be sensitive to, we were just talking about this off-air, like, the temptation one is to just roast any husband of a wife with a young kid. Like, there is no other responsibility. You are responsible for everything. If you ever ask anything of her, you're a jerk, whatever, yada, yada, yada. That's, I, I found that last caller, like, to really be searching. And so like, not trying to be ugly or rude, maybe he doesn't understand, doesn't know, whatever, but like, I get that everybody, we got three kids, like, everybody's tired. Everybody's tired all the time forever. You'll be tired for years. It just is.

• 1:00:51Dr. John Delony?

  Where people get into trouble is my way's the right way, your way's the wrong way, instead of our way is what we agreed on. And when you start getting into scorekeeping, I've worked this hard and you haven't worked this hard. I put in 12 hours and that kid, and you start, husbands especially, start doing math, like, that kid was only awake three hours. That gave you four other hours when you could have been, that's when you get yourself into trouble. And so, and, and...

• 1:01:22Dr. John Delony?

  Did you scroll two hours away?

• 1:01:24Speaker 04

  Right, things still need to be done.

• 1:01:26Dr. John Delony?

  Things gotta be done, right?

• 1:01:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, there's still laundry to do, there's still dishes to wash.

• 1:01:29Dr. John Delony?

  Right, and so it's not a free pass for either people.

• 1:01:32Speaker 04

  No, because that's just part of living in any household.

• 1:01:34Dr. John Delony?

  That's right.

• 1:01:35Speaker 04

  There's just things that have to be done.

• 1:01:36Dr. John Delony?

  That's right.

• 1:01:37Speaker 04

  Yeah, and so if you're to a point you can hire out help, great.

• 1:01:41Dr. John Delony?

  Yes, and if you can't hire out help, and you're a point where I gotta work another four hours tonight, so it's gonna be 16-hour shift today, and you don't think you can open your eyelids, but I gotta go get the dirty diapers off of the thing, like, that's the season they're in, and the, if you can always just do whatever you can possibly do to stay, we are doing this together, not me versus you, because me versus you is a lose-lose every time. And just know that season ends, it does, it does.

• 1:02:16Speaker 04

  And we've talked about this before, because I think Sheila and I are probably very similar in this.

• 1:02:22Dr. John Delony?

  Y'all are mean to me all the time? Actually, she's not.

• 1:02:27Speaker 04

  No.

• 1:02:28Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, go ahead.

• 1:02:29Speaker 04

  Anyway, um, there's, just because what I think is a clean house doesn't mean that's what you think.

• 1:02:37Dr. John Delony?

  Yes, yeah, yeah.

• 1:02:38Speaker 04

  And like, if I come home, and my husband has come home and set his travel coffee mug in the sink, you know what, I'm just gonna wash it, because I'm washing my dishes as well. Um, and if it bothers me, he'll make sure it's done before he goes to bed.

• 1:02:52Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:53Speaker 04

  But if I'm the one that wants it done right now, well, I'm just gonna do it. You know, so, and...

• 1:02:57Dr. John Delony?

  And you can choose to not go, "He knows I hate this, he's trying to send me a message," and go down a whole trail of, a litany of grievances, right? Or you can just wash them off.

• 1:03:09Speaker 04

  Well, like, my husband knows that, um, our bedroom is one place that I really would like to keep picked up, because it's kind of the one place we could be and be able to relax. And so, he'll notice that, like, his bedside table, there's a reason that his is the one that doesn't face the door, his side of the bed. And then it starts, he, and he'll say something, he'll be like, "I bet this is starting to bother you, I'll get it cleaned up this weekend," because he recognizes that.

• 1:03:31Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:32Speaker 04

  And as long as he's, you know, but I don't require that every single thing be, you know...

• 1:03:36Dr. John Delony?

  You're not misery.

• 1:03:37Speaker 04

  Right, no, but if you look at my bedside table, you would probably think that, because everything is exactly where it's supposed to be, but that's me.

• 1:03:43Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:44Speaker 04

  That's on me.

• 1:03:44Dr. John Delony?

  And so, being able to say, "This, my perfect vision of my house, it looks like this," and her perfect vision of a day is, "I made another day with three kids under five." If y'all are both on the same team in that way, awesome, it's great.

• 1:03:58Speaker 04

  If you want your house that looks like a magazine all the time, you need to live alone. Period.

• 1:04:04Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:05Speaker 04

  And trust me, there's times that I thought maybe I should.

• 1:04:14Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, that's a messy one, no pun intended. No pun intended.

• 1:04:19Speaker 04

  Like, for me and Alex, look at our desks, that tells you all you need to know.

• 1:04:23Dr. John Delony?

  Alex, shout out, me and your desk are pretty similar. Same team, brother. Love you guys, bye.