171: Seek. Never Settle. Inspire. Never Complain. Rise. Never Stay Down. No Legs, No Vision, No Problem. With Matthew Bradford.

0:00:00 - Opening 0:03:23 - Matthew Bradford. Life, service, and Inspiration. 1:26:19 - Final thoughts and take-aways. 1:31:14 - Support: How to Stay on THE PATH. 2:01:35 - Closing Gratitude. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is Jocko Podcast number 171 with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo.

• 0:07Speaker 01

  Good evening.

• 0:12Jocko Willink?

  I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same, and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me according to the regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

• 0:43Jocko Willink?

  And that is the oath of enlistment that is made by every US military member.

• 0:54Jocko Willink?

  And the other day I was at a charity event for America's Mighty Warriors, which is an organization that was created by Mrs. Debbie Mama Lee, the mother of Mark Lee from Task Unit Bruiser, who was the first SEAL killed in action in Iraq. And it was a great event. And it was an honor to be there. And I spent some time answering questions from some of the people that had come out to the event. And one of the individuals asked a question about the fact that he had served in the Marines during the 90s, during a time of

• 1:39Jocko Willink?

  peace. And he didn't go into combat and he didn't go to war. And he actually felt guilty about that. He felt that he hadn't done enough. And I told him the truth. And the truth is that he had done what his country had asked him to do. That's what he had done. And if the country had needed him to give more, then he would have given more. That is what the oath of enlistment is. And it's one of, if not the most powerful oath that a person can give. Because when you take that oath, if you take that oath, you are putting your country above all else.

• 2:24Jocko Willink?

  Above your family, above your future, above your life, above yourself.

• 2:32Jocko Willink?

  And with that oath, when you take that oath, if your country needs you to sacrifice, you will sacrifice. And if the country needs your time, you will give it your time. And if it needs even more than that, then you will give it even more. And the good soldier, sailor, airman, or marine, the servicemen and women who defend this nation,

• 3:00Jocko Willink?

  they will sacrifice and they will give until they have nothing left.

• 3:08Jocko Willink?

  And it is my honor tonight to have someone on the podcast that has sacrificed incredibly for our great nation. And yet, his attitude remains completely unwavering. He drives on and sets an example for everyone. An example of pure fortitude and tenacity and one that fully represents the motto of the hollowed brotherhood he will always be a part of. And that's the United States Marine Corps and their proud maxim, semper fidelis, always faithful.

• 3:52Jocko Willink?

  Been working to make this podcast happen for a long time. And tonight I am grateful to have this hero with us, a man by the name of Matthew Bradford. Matt, welcome to the show.

• 4:08Speaker 02

  Thanks for having me on Jaco. This is a, it's something else to be said in front of you right now because there's been a lot of remarkable people that's been on this podcast. And it's a true honor to be here in front of you and echo and get the chance to meet you all.

• 4:20Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. And I know we've been working on making this happen for a while. So I'm glad we finally were able to get you and your family on a plane flown out here where we can, where we can sit down and talk for a little bit and then you can get back with your family and go have some good times.

• 4:35Speaker 02

  Go swim in the pool and spend, spend the week at the happiest place on earth.

• 4:40Jocko Willink?

  Yes, indeed. And it sounds like you're gonna have good temperatures. I'll give you a little heads up. It can be a little warm here in Anaheim if you're not careful to come out in the summertime. You uh, you'll, you'll get baked out there in the, in the, in the, in the Disneyland.

• 4:57Speaker 02

  My, my pasty white skin and I'm hard headed, so I don't like putting sunscreen on, so I learned the hard way.

• 5:03Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, well, hopefully you guys will be alright. Um, alright, so let's just go, let's go to the beginning. Growing up, what that was like growing up in, in Kentucky and Virginia. What was that all about?

• 5:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was, I was born in Petersburg, Virginia. My dad, he worked at Fort Lee at the Defense Commissary Agency and, you know, in early age, my parents got a divorce, so I moved to live with my mom in Kentucky where all of my family's from. And even today, when people ask me where I'm from, Kentucky is just the easiest answer. And, you know, throughout my childhood, like, we moved so much. I learned a lot because my mom, she worked paycheck to paycheck. So I, I, I learned a lot about, you know, how to appreciate things and to be thankful for things and not expect the bigger things. And, um, you know, through this, I, I learned to just go outside and be with my friends and never expect, you know, a big Christmas or, but I knew one thing from, from my mom and from my stepdad and

• 6:01Speaker 02

  even my family around me, the one thing they showed me and the rest of us was love. And it, it taught me a lot about life at an early age. And, you know, it's, it's through all the moving and around, but, you know, in Kentucky, the one thing with Kentucky is they, they have a lot of, um, their drug problems. So it's, uh, getting out and playing sports and getting away from that helped out a lot. And, you know, all of this happened in 2001. And that's when I realized as a ninth grade and as a freshman in high school is when I felt like it was my purpose to serve this country in the military, even though I was a freshman in high school. Sitting there watching, you know, the, the terrorist attacks go on in New York City and the Pentagon and I felt like it was my time. Go home and

• 6:46Speaker 02

  nobody was on the streets, nobody was playing basketball or football or whatever the sport of the, the time was. Everybody was inside watching the news. And also through that, you know, my wa, my mom and my stepdad was going through some things as, as their own and. And that's when thankfully my dad stepped in and my dad said, you're coming to live with me now. And that was the greatest decision ever because although I love Kentucky, I don't know where I'd be at the day if, if, if my dad didn't step in and, you know, pull me towards him in Virginia and moving to Virginia after my freshman year in high school and, and staying there for three years, you know, living right next to a army base and visiting the army base daily. I got the chance to see what, what, um, what the willingness to

• 7:29Speaker 02

  serve, you know, the patriotism and all this stuff. And it really kind of boosted my, um, my motive to serve more and more.

• 7:38Jocko Willink?

  So when you were, when you were in Kentucky and you were a freshman, had you thought about the military prior to September 11th?

• 7:46Speaker 02

  Growing up in Kentucky, the only thing that I wanted to do was play basketball for the University of Kentucky. That was, I mean, that's the one thing. And, um, you know, you'd go out on the street or you'd play video games, which then was the old school PlayStation and you just wanted to play basketball for Kentucky. There was nothing else. And, um, 2001 happened and that's when kind of like the, it got in my mind. That's what I wanted to do. And then during that time, Black Hawk Down come out as the movie and, and I just watched that over and over again. And I was like, I want to be a Ranger. I want to serve, you know, and, and then it went from the army to I looked into the Air Force Special Forces and their, their Special Forces is way too long because I wanted to deploy. And I actually ran into the Marine Corps recruiter at Fort Lee playing

• 8:28Speaker 02

  basketball and he took us to Hooters and that's where he sold me was at Hooters then.

• 8:34Jocko Willink?

  Oh, that's, uh, that's good. I guess. It doesn't, it doesn't take, you know, for me, when, when the Marine Corps recruiting is awesome. And I, I, I heard this fact a long time ago that the Marine Corps spends the least amount of money on recruiting, but has the, the best results because they just have their, well, they have the Marine Corps. They have the, the Marine Corps persona behind them, the, the legend of the Marine Corps. And that, I remember, you know, when I was a kid, there was a guy that I knew that was a drill instructor and he, he was older than me, but you know, occasionally he'd come home and I would just think, well, obviously that's what I'm going to do. I mean, there's no doubt in your mind, you know, you just see these human beings that are.

• 9:17Jocko Willink?

  Above and beyond anything you've ever really seen before and you go that's you know when you're 10 years old and you see a Marine Corps drill instructor that's a that's a damn impressive sight that is an impressive sight.

• 9:29Speaker 02

  Especially when you see the dress blues walk into the cafeteria at school and with all the medals and the ribbons and it's like this is what I wanted to be and and because growing up like on my mom's side my grandpa served and and then on my dad's side a lot of his fam a lot of that family served in the military and I never realized the military was you know in my future but looking back on it now because I've been asked this question if you've ever if you just think it's you know was set up for you to join the military and as as many people in my family that served I kind of you know to answer the question now I thought it was my time to serve and but I mean just the Marine Corps alone it's you know it wasn't my first choice because I just wanted to serve but I tell you what it's it was the

• 10:13Speaker 02

  greatest decision I ever made in my life as an 18 year old you know December of my senior year in high school going to the MAPS station and you know taking that that oath and getting the date to go to boot camp to recruit training and all I had to do was just give my recruiter my diploma and then get on a bus and there I go and surprisingly the first day of school the next year is when I was on a bus stepping on those yellow footprints and getting screamed at.

• 10:39Jocko Willink?

  So you decided you were going to join after September 11th and that was your freshman year then you go from Kentucky to Virginia and but you're are you focused the whole time now you're just saying yep I'm going in the military as soon as I get done with high school that's that's where your mindset was.

• 10:54Speaker 02

  That was I was a my grades were bare minimum to average just to stay on a sports team and because all I knew was to my recruiter needed my diploma that was it and believe me there was some classes that I struggled with and I didn't know if I was going to give him that diploma or not but mainly English second semester of my senior year that was a but it was a it was my mindset that's what I wanted to do I didn't think anything about going to college I just wanted to serve in the military.

• 11:22Jocko Willink?

  Yeah that's there's something.

• 11:26Jocko Willink?

  I don't know. You know, I got, I got a bunch of teenage kids. I got two daughters and one son that are teenagers all right now. And then I got a little girl, but for kids these days, a lot of them are programmed that what you do when you get done with high school is you go to college. And this, that's not for everybody. It really isn't. And for me, it certainly wasn't, it's something I wanted to do. I was like, oh, I, I wish I could have joined the military when I was like 13. Because, because I would have just been such a much better person. You know? So, all right. You, you struggle a little bit in school, in English, apparently.

• 12:07Speaker 02

  Definitely.

• 12:09Jocko Willink?

  What sports did you play?

• 12:10Speaker 02

  I played football. I played basketball a little bit. And I pretty much played all sports. Not for school related, but Little League Baseball. And then my wife likes to make fun of me, but I played high school tennis from sophomore to senior year. And I, I went out there, the first practice, my buddy that kind of like recruited me to come play. And the coach was like, hey, how about you two just go down there and play a bunch of sophomores, just kind of get it out of our way. And I beat him eight nothing. He got so mad. It was so funny. Like, walking or walking or down, walking back to the other side of the courts and hearing the other players like, oh, my gosh, he just beat him eight nothing. And the guy had red hair and his face was just as red as his hair.

• 12:49Speaker 02

  And, but you know, like, I, I, junior year, I was the one seed on both singles and doubles. And went pretty far in the district. And, you know, senior year was the same. And it was just something that I enjoyed to do in the springtime. It was a, and honestly, it's very, you run so much that you, you gotta be athletic and you gotta be in shape. And that helped out a lot, too. You know, with football in the fall and then tennis in the spring.

• 13:15Jocko Willink?

  And then, and so what year did you graduate?

• 13:17Speaker 02

  2005.

• 13:19Jocko Willink?

  And then you left in September of 2005, you leave for boot camp.

• 13:23Speaker 02

  I did, yeah, graduated in June and left in September, so a couple of months in between. And that's the one thing, like in high school, there was a couple Marines or a couple of guys that I graduated with. We graduated on Friday and they went to boot camp on Monday and they're the ones that kind of like, kind of helped me kind of really realize that the Marine Corps is what I wanted to do, even though it's kind of what I was focused on.

• 13:49Jocko Willink?

  When did you, when did you sign a contract at MEPS?

• 13:51Speaker 02

  December of 2004.

• 13:54Jocko Willink?

  Okay, so you had a little delayed entry.

• 13:56Speaker 02

  Delayed entry program.

• 13:57Jocko Willink?

  Everyone else is worried about what they're gonna do after high school and you're like, I'm gonna party all summer long. And then I'm going to Marine Corps boot camp. How much of a shock to your system was it when you got to Marine Corps boot camp?

• 14:10Speaker 02

  The first three days was, I mean, it's, it was just so much, like, you know, of course you don't sleep at all and it's just this constant yelling and you're realizing like, what in the world did I do? Cause you can only watch it on videos and understand it's like, okay, that's on a TV screen and it's not real life, but it was something else getting, you know, I guess they arrange it up every, every time the bus goes through Parris Island. They're gonna stand on the yellow footprints in the middle of the night and of course, that's when we got off and I was, it was a 12 passenger van and I was kind of in the middle seat and I had to go through the seatbelt to get out while I'm getting yelled at. So I'm like choking myself with the seatbelt.

• 14:48Speaker 02

  And, you know, we get to the yellow footprints and it's like, you're standing there and, you know, position of attention and it's like your calves start tightening up and you start just like, oh my gosh, what did I do? Why did I sign this paperwork? And I think the funniest thing was when we actually went on to Parris Island, how this, this van from Virginia down to Parris Island, eight hours of just joking, talking. The minute we passed the gate, it just got silent.

• 15:14Jocko Willink?

  Standby.

• 15:15Speaker 02

  And there was, you know, and then, you know, going back like when I, cause I turned 18 my senior year in August and I did a delayed entry program or I, you know, went to MEPS December and. When I would come home in December and my dad was like, so what'd you do? And I was like, I, I signed up for infantry in the Marine Corps. And he was like, you know what infantry does, right? And it's like I do. And, and this is the time, like in my room, I had the big Marine Corps poster with the three Marines in their dress blues. I think it was the guy and the, the female. And it was like, it took up the whole wall. And I was, I was dedicated to the Corps then, and I was so excited to, to raise my hand and then go to school the next day wearing my MEPS Marine Corps T-shirt. I was, I was like, this is it.

• 15:56Jocko Willink?

  The perfect recruit.

• 15:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know, I started walking around with all the Marine Corps shirts. I'd go to the mall and I'd walk around with my shoulders all cocked back. It's like, this is it.

• 16:06Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's awesome. I always tried to, cause uh, there's been quite a few people that have joined the military from listening to the podcast. And now whenever I talk about this, I always try and tell them that for at least the first two weeks, they're gonna hate me. They're gonna hate the military, they're gonna hate boot camp, it's gonna seem like the worst decision they ever made.

• 16:25Speaker 02

  I was, I actually was speaking on the USS George Washington in Japan in 2009. And this, this sailor walked up to me and was like, oh, I just got off the phone with my dad and tell him I'm reenlistin' after hearing you speak. And I'm like, oh gosh, you didn't give me my name, did you?

• 16:40Speaker 02

  But.

• 16:41Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, check. So, uh, you go through boot camp and you get done and you, and you knew you were going infantry the whole time, right?

• 16:49Speaker 02

  I did. I knew I was infantry and, you know, in 2005, like, I, I feel like we had about 70, 75 recruits in our platoon. And majority of them were going infantry. And the funny thing is sitting in our squad bay and our senior drill instructor, he was, he was sitting in front of us, talking to us up on the quarter deck. And he's like, I got one more class after you all. And then once I'm, once I'm done, I'm going Hawaii and I'll never see you little. You little pukes again and and you kind of just like blow that off. It's like, okay, cool. He's going to Hawaii. I'm more than likely an East Coast Marine, so I'm going to stay at Camp Lejeune and do my time there and hopefully never run into him.

• 17:28Speaker 02

  But then you experience the small Marine Corps gets a lot smaller and you know, once we got the SOI graduated from there and and they they told us that a select few of us from Alpha Company School of Infantry would be going to Hawaii, be stationed with Second Battalion, Third Marines. And a select few of us was our whole company and the company that next, the Bravo Company. So they they dropped us off in Hawaii and you go through there and

• 17:54Jocko Willink?

  Is that normal for like a whole company from SOI to go together to a battalion somewhere?

• 18:00Speaker 02

  I didn't think so. I thought, you know, you know, in the Marine Corps, it's like east of the Mississippi, you're pretty much going to stay all together. But I thought they would kind of disperse you out through different battalions and thankfully everybody, like a lot of the guys that I went to boot camp with was in the same battalion as me in Hawaii. So like I created that friendship and that brotherhood from the start of the Marine Corps and carried it with me along the way. And and I was glad because you know, it's growing up in Kentucky and Virginia, I didn't want to be stationed in Lejeune or the East Coast. And you know, they gave me this little wish list, which I don't think they even look at. I think they just give it to you because it's a check in the box, but

• 18:36Jocko Willink?

  Makes you feel good.

• 18:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, I picked I picked Okinawa and Camp Pendleton as my first two choices and they pretty much put me right in the middle in Hawaii.

• 18:42Jocko Willink?

  Split the difference.

• 18:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I always tell people a free government trip to Hawaii. I mean, I can't complain about that at all. So.

• 18:49Jocko Willink?

  How was the School of Infantry?

• 18:51Speaker 02

  It was cold in North Carolina. We were during that time, there were so many guys going through the through infantry school and a lot of guys were just like there for a couple of months, three months and you know, like you go to the chow hall and you got a like a 10 to 20 like a snake line of rows and rows of Marines going just trying to eat chow. And I was so close to actually calling my recruiter to go on recruiter's assistance because I didn't know how much longer I'd be here. And thankfully, my last name starts with a B. And so so January, I got selected and put in Alpha Company and the first three weeks is just kind of learning the whole weapon systems and working on, you know, going on humps and stuff and

• 19:31Speaker 02

  and then the next three weeks was basically out in the field the whole time, doing infantry work and clearing, you know, learn how to clear rooms and do a lot of mount training.

• 19:40Jocko Willink?

  At this point, you're, did you guys all pretty much assume you're going to Iraq or Afghanistan 100%? I mean, being an infantryman in the Marine Corps, there's a war in two countries. You must have all just realized you're 100% going.

• 19:54Speaker 02

  Pretty much. And that's the reason why I wanted to choose infantry because I wanted to deploy as quickly as I possibly could. And, you know, two of my drill instructors were Purple Heart recipients from the Battle of Fallujah. And so it's like you kind of, you kind of hear it from all the drill instructors when you're going through recruit training that, you know, this is where you're going to end up, you know, you go through your school and you go through your training, but more than likely 99% of you are going to Iraq or Afghanistan.

• 20:18Jocko Willink?

  Were you thinking about that? Like you're on the range, you're dialing in your weapon. Are you thinking to yourself, I better pay attention right now because I might be needing this skill in a couple of months when I'm overseas?

• 20:32Speaker 02

  I don't think it ever like crossed my mind because I just did what I was told to do, you know? And, you know, when it was on the rifle range or if it was like patrolling, you know, I tried to take in as much as I possibly could and learn as I went. And, you know, the more I learned, I just, you know, I learned to not only teach myself, but also teach those around me and stuff because I didn't, you know, you only see it on the news. You don't really know what to experience and it's funny because I tried to read the book, No True Glory.

• 21:00Jocko Willink?

  Yep.

• 21:00Speaker 02

  And, and I couldn't really understand what Iraq was like, you know, from clearing rooms or patrolling down the streets, urban terrain. I couldn't understand that because I wasn't there. And, you know, of course now when I read these books, I understand because I can visualize it in my head. But, you know, then I was just doing what I was told and I was learning as I went along. And, you know, I learned what I could through School of Infantry. And then once I got to the fleet, it kind of changed a lot because we just had to learn what the, what our battalion and, and our squad and platoons was doing there.

• 21:33Jocko Willink?

  At the School of Infantry, did you do company sized operations of like clearances of villages and stuff like that?

• 21:42Speaker 02

  We we did towards the end of school of infantry. We had, um, we had all the elevens out there and then we had the machine gunners and the mortar men would set up and and we kind of, um, we would, we would Humvee in and you know, we'd go in and clear a couple of homes and stuff like that. And but it was more of a company level.

• 22:01Jocko Willink?

  Mm hmm.

• 22:02Speaker 02

  It's hard. It's hard to remember back then, but it was because it was the one thing in like North Carolina, like where we were at training for a school of infantry, it was just a lot of like machine gun fields and a lot of like pop up targets and those kind of ranges. And then the mount town wasn't as extensive as it was. Once we got to the fleet and went to CACs in California.

• 22:20Jocko Willink?

  So there, so you would say at school of infantry, you were more working on your individual infantry skills more than like working together with a platoon or a company sized elements?

• 22:31Speaker 02

  I think so because a lot of times at school of infantry, we did a lot of fire team stuff.

• 22:35Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 22:35Speaker 02

  And, um, you know, we did a lot of hikes every, every Thursday. Once we got back from the field, but a lot of it was like this learned weapons, learning how to shoot at pop up targets and like moving targets and just kind of, um, like learn, just kind of learn the whole weapons, weapons and systems and stuff.

• 22:50Jocko Willink?

  Every Marine is first and foremost a rifleman.

• 22:54Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 22:54Jocko Willink?

  And that's where you become a rifleman. Okay. So now you get assigned to two, three Marines and you're, you're heading off to Hawaii, which is, which is coming from, coming from Kentucky and then Virginia and then North Carolina. And now all of a sudden you wake up and you're in Hawaii.

• 23:13Speaker 02

  We were actually in the squad bay, me, a guy from Georgia and the other guy from Tennessee. And we were listening to Craig Morgan's redneck yacht club thinking this is what we're going to do when we get to Hawaii. And of course, I think all three of us were in different companies. So we never saw each other. Once we got to Hawaii, but you like, you fly in and you get there and it's like, oh my gosh, we're in Hawaii and we, we get on the bus, we get all our gear and we get dropped off at the battalion office and we got, you know, two of my seniors waiting on me and he's like, they're basically like pulling me to the barracks just so it's like, you're all ours now. It's like, oh gosh. And then, you know, you start hearing stories from like other, the, the other guys that, you know, got there with me and.

• 23:57Speaker 02

  How their their seniors are, um, you know, welcoming them into the the platoon.

• 24:03Jocko Willink?

  What what what month did you get there?

• 24:05Speaker 02

  Uh, March, March of two thousand six.

• 24:08Jocko Willink?

  Okay, and so as soon as you get there, so and those guys were just coming back from Afghanistan, right?

• 24:14Speaker 02

  They were, they they were actually over there during Operation Red Wing.

• 24:17Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 24:18Speaker 02

  And, um, yeah, they were, I think they got back February of two thousand six, so they were just getting back from their post deployment leave. And, um, you know, once once we got there, it was pretty much you got to get right into another workup.

• 24:32Jocko Willink?

  And and then that workup is where you really start integrating everyone together, working in platoon size elements, working in company size elements?

• 24:41Speaker 02

  It was, and then that's when we kind of, they told us when we first got there, everything you learned in school of infantry, just like, lose it. Because now you're gonna learn what we teach you and, you know, from everything from just like clearing conference rooms and barracks rooms to, you know, working on patrolling up the streets in Hawaii, and that was the one bad thing about being stationed in Hawaii, that's it's a great place to be stationed, but there wasn't much to do any training. And we would, um, I mean, we would literally patrol up and down the streets at K Bay, Connyway Bay, Hawaii, and they had a couple of old barracks that we'd work mounts, you know, we'd do mount training with and with sim rounds. And, um, you know, we do, we'd go to Bellows, which was like a little air force base that they were starting to create like a mount town, and that's when we did a lot of our training and kind of our field work.

• 25:27Jocko Willink?

  And now at this point, are you starting to think, and you got guys that are just coming back from Afghanistan? Are you starting to think like, okay, now I really need to start paying attention? The reason I'm asking you these questions is because I'm trying to relate, you know, when I joined the Navy, it was nineteen ninety, there was like, I guess the Gulf War was kind of on the horizon, but and it was gone so quick that by the time I was in BUDS, it was over. And so even when I was doing workups and stuff, like, I would always be thinking.

• 25:56Jocko Willink?

  Like, okay, I need to be good at this because someday I might need this skill. But that's a big stretch. You know what I mean? Whereas once September 11th happened, every one of these young guys that was coming in, it was like, oh, I'm probably, it wasn't like someday I might need this skill. It was like, I'm probably gonna need this skill in the next couple of months to save my life or my friends' lives. Did you feel like that kind of intensity from yourself and from the other guys that were just coming back from overseas?

• 26:25Speaker 02

  I think so because I feel like the way they were kind of instructing us and teaching us this stuff. And they kept relaying that any minute now that we could be called up and deploy. And you started getting more serious about it. And I think my attitude changed and it wasn't more of like joking around, even though I like to joke a lot, but it was when it's time to be serious, it's time to be serious and it's time to learn. You know, and, you know, whatever weapons I was carrying around, if it's assault or the rifle, the M16, you need to learn everything about that and you need to learn it to its T. And I think that's the one thing that I really paid more attention about. And, and it's, but it was just like you could feel it from your seniors because they, they experienced like casualties.

• 27:09Speaker 02

  They experienced deaths over in Afghanistan. They knew what combat was like. And you started understanding that this is serious now. This ain't, you know, this ain't a video game or a joke. You're getting ready to go to war in, you know, five, six, seven months or even tomorrow. You never know. And so everything that you need to learn here is something that you need to take serious because this is, you could be, have yourself in this situation when you're in combat.

• 27:31Jocko Willink?

  At what point did you know where you were deploying to, that you were deploying to Iraq?

• 27:36Speaker 02

  I feel like it was after CACs in July. We were in, we were in CACs from June to July of 2006, which is great months to be in the deserts in California. But I feel like once we got back there, it was pretty much like we're going to Iraq and.

• 27:49Jocko Willink?

  And that was, so, so we're still in, is this oh five or oh six?

• 27:52Speaker 02

  Oh, six.

• 27:53Jocko Willink?

  Okay, got it.

• 27:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, I joined, joined September 2005 and I was on a plane in September 2006 headed to Iraq. So that's one of the things I wanted to do in the Marine Corps, as I mentioned, was just, I wanted to deploy. And I was literally in the Marine Corps a year and I was already on a plane headed overseas.

• 28:09Jocko Willink?

  And then did, at what point did you know you where, where in Iraq you were going that you were heading up to Haditha?

• 28:14Speaker 02

  I think we, we knew we were going to the Al Anbar in the northwestern part of Iraq, but we were never told what city. I think once we got to Al Asad and we were starting to relieve three, three and hear about like what they went through and where they were at. Is when we started really realizing, okay, this is where we're going.

• 28:30Jocko Willink?

  So was when you actually got to, you got in countries when you realized, okay, we're going to Haditha. You knew that you were going to relieve three, three. You probably heard a bunch of the stories and I mean, so this is, so I was in, I was in Ramadi at this time. Um, you know, from the spring of oh six until the fall of oh six. So you're, we overlapped probably by about a month, maybe a little bit more of when you arrived in Iraq. And you flew into Al Asad, you said?

• 28:59Speaker 02

  Flew into Al Asad and we were there basically a day and then while we were in Al Asad, three, three was starting to um, pull some of their Marines out. And that's when we started interacting with them and they told us that they felt bad. From what we were getting ready to get involved, they lost so many Marines while they were over there. And, and then it's just kind of like, you hear stories of other guys in our company, like basically in a firefight, just to get on their FOB. And you know, once we left Al Asad, we, we took, um, we flew up to the Haditha dam in the middle of the night and. Stayed there overnight, we started loading our mags and we got in a big convoy and we, we drove into Haditha.

• 29:37Speaker 02

  And it was, um, I mean, you just like, you hear the stories of Haditha from three, three, and then when three, one went through there. Um, stint before and, and it's just. Wild, wild west and again, you only see it on TV, you never expect to be walking the same streets and you know, this stuff going on, but. You know, the first time we went out on patrol, it was, it was nerve wracking, it was nerve, like, cause it's like you do this in training so much and you feel like you do it so well. But now that you're in a situation where it's like, oh gosh, you know, I gotta look here, I gotta look here, I gotta look up, I gotta look down.

• 30:11Jocko Willink?

  And what was your position in the platoon?

• 30:13Speaker 02

  I was a point man.

• 30:14Jocko Willink?

  Oh, get some.

• 30:15Speaker 02

  So it has a and it was a it was fun, you know, as a I think after the first firefight is when you like you kind of like, okay, I could do this. This is good. I'm motivated now, you know, and and I was like, I remember one one time we got in a firefight and um before we went on patrol, I was like, gosh, I'm ready to get some. I'm ready to get a firefight, you know, and and I didn't know my squad leader heard this, but after we got in like a two or three hour long firefight, we're walking back onto the fob and he yells at me, Bradford, I'm like, what? He's like, I'm gonna kill you. Like, what did I do now? You know, it's like we all come back alive, you know, I feel like that was a good thing, but it was a, you know, it's it's funny, the first firefight we got into, we were in the Palm Groves and we were walking along this compound wall and these these, you know, little trees, they're

• 31:00Speaker 02

  they're no bigger than they're no wider than a softball. And then there was one no wider than a baseball and they open up from our left. And so me and my team leader jumped behind the one that's the size of a softball. And he's like, hey, Bradford, get over there behind that tree. And I'm like, bull crap, that one's smaller than this one, you know, and and then our corpsman, who was a he was a is a junior corpsman, he had the shotgun for breaching and he laid off a round and I don't I'm pretty sure it didn't hit the guy, but the boom scared him and he took off and but it was just a and of course, the same day in the Marine Corps, it's just our comms went out and so the the stuff that we got was kind of crap. So it's like, here we are in the middle of the Palm

• 31:42Speaker 02

  Groves after a firefight and we don't have no comms. We're shooting up um smoke and trying to get somebody to come down there and help us, you know, and.

• 31:50Jocko Willink?

  So what was where were you guys living in Haditha?

• 31:53Speaker 02

  There was a fob in the middle of town that we were um that we stayed at. That was our home. It was right in the Iraqi's houses and.

• 32:00Jocko Willink?

  Was it a was it a platoon size element in there or a company size element in there?

• 32:03Speaker 02

  It was a company. The way that um our battalion was split up, the battalion commander and the headquarters was more more in the dam, Haditha Dam, and then Haditha was the the main AO because it was the largest city and that's where our company was, Echo Company, and we had um. We had golf company to the south of us in Hawklinia and then across the river in Barwana was Fox Company and and weapons company would basically go from from from AO to AO and about three months into the deployment, our battalion commander and the headquarters detachment would come and they actually set up shop in Haditha with us once the Iraqi police Iraqi army left our FOB.

• 32:42Jocko Willink?

  Mm hmm.

• 32:43Speaker 02

  And, um, you know, we had a we, yeah, there was, it was a company element and we pretty much ran, you know, the fourth platoon would work more with the Iraqi police Iraqi army and then the one platoon was basically set up for mobile and the other platoons would rotate back and forth between posts and patrol. So it was, I forgot how many days on we would be off on post duty and then you just kind of rotate back and forth and when we were in Haditha, our mobile unit got hit so hard that they had to change out and another platoon had to take over just because of the the snipers, the indirects, IEDs, just we lost so many guys and throughout that whole deployment, the whole battalion lost 23 Marines and I think Echo Company lost nine Marines and

• 33:27Speaker 02

  the majority, I think, I think all of them were within the first two or three months, not to mention the Purple Heart recipients that we got from that deployment.

• 33:37Jocko Willink?

  And when you were, were you guys doing mostly, you guys were doing almost all foot patrol out of the FOB?

• 33:42Speaker 02

  I was, we were foot patrol, every patrol and I actually felt safer walking the streets than I did in the vehicle and, um, I mean, we'd get in the back of a seven ton and they're launching grenades over the seven ton trying to blow us up and, you know, the one time that we were in a patrol with the Iraqi army, we were in the old, old green Humvees with the no up armor and me and my friend was sitting in the backseat was like, good luck. I love you, brother.

• 34:05Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 34:06Speaker 02

  Cause, cause if this something happens right now, then we're, we're screwed.

• 34:09Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, the, the old Humvees aren't going to take a ID hit very well.

• 34:14Speaker 02

  No, not at all. And it was like I

• 34:19Speaker 02

  I loved being over there, you know, we were talking about serving this country and you know, the one time that we're in Iraq, it's like, we had one big screen TV in our chow hall, but we were never in a chow hall. We lived in an Iraqi house and it was just our platoon. And you were away from the news, you're away from society, everything going on, it was just you and your brothers. And that's the one thing like today I miss more than anything, it's just being around those guys and you, you, you see them open up and you know, when, when you're, when your marine brother, you know, gets killed or wounded, like you see the emotion that it's like you're there for him, you know, and he comes to you. And those are the things that I miss more about the Marine Corps and unfortunately, living in

• 35:01Speaker 02

  Kentucky today, it's like you're not around a Marine Corps base and you're, you know, I get to see my friends, I don't know, once a year, it seems like. And a lot of the guys in my platoon, I haven't even seen since my injury.

• 35:14Jocko Willink?

  The, uh, the, well, how long would you guys go out patrol for? Like, what would you guys patrol for a couple hours? Would you guys find an objective and then head that way and then check it out and then come back? Did you have an objective? Were you just doing presence patrols? What was that all about?

• 35:29Speaker 02

  We were doing a lot of meet and greets, present patrols, ID patrols. We'd go out for two or three hours. Um, sometimes we'd actually go out and set up a patrol base in the middle of town and just stay there for a couple of nights and run patrols out of the patrol base. Later on in deployment, our, um, our company commander kind of made it a, an objective to set up patrol bases throughout the town. We had one in North Hodea, one in South and then one out in kind of the, um, I guess that'd be the, the, the western part of Hodea. And, um, which we'd basically, we'd have engineers come in and they'd build like little, little fobda, these houses and actually spent Christmas of 2006 on that, the patrol base up in North Hodea. And it was sitting there on the roof in the middle of the night, eating cold turkey and ham, you know, and...

• 36:13Jocko Willink?

  Merry Christmas, bro.

• 36:14Speaker 02

  Yeah. And it's so funny because it's like, they told us, it's like, oh, you're going to have Christmas off. Yeah, that didn't last very long because here we are on patrol going up to North Adita. But it was, uh, it was fun. I enjoyed it. And you know, one of the, some of the cool things that we did there, we were, we had a, they believed there was a cachet in one of the islands and there was no bridge, nothing to get to the island. And the only way to get there was to take river rafts. And I'm not gonna lie, that was the one time I felt like I was a Navy SEAL going down New York Friday's River on a river raft and uh, but it was in the middle of the night and they had a two forty on the front of it and they would, you know, pick us up from the bridge and we would ride up right to the, the, um,

• 36:56Speaker 02

  the island and we actually dug in, dug in and stayed there overnight and, and, and I believe that was Thanksgiving of two thousand and six. So that was,

• 37:05Jocko Willink?

  Happy holidays.

• 37:06Speaker 02

  Holidays, you know, so like looking back now on the holidays on Thanksgiving and Christmas, it's like, I just look back on those two moments of my life. It's like, sleeping on a cold island because people look at Iraq and think it's warm all the time, but it's pretty cold over there in the winter months and, and then of course Christmas time sitting on the roof.

• 37:23Jocko Willink?

  And how often were you guys getting indirect fire into your, into your fob? Were they hitting you guys with mortars a lot?

• 37:29Speaker 02

  We got mortared about every, every day about five o'clock, you know, chow time. And one of the times like we had a, I don't know, it was like a hill. It was like a big sand hill in the middle of our fob. We had a couple of posts up on top of it and I was actually, we were on post duty and they was like Bradford, won't you bring these batteries up to a post five, which is at the end of it. And so I take a battery to it and I'm walking down and like going down this is very steep. And while I'm halfway down, they start dropping mortars on us. And it's like, I'm thinking to myself, it's like, should I go back to the post or should I run? And like I take off sprinting down the hill. Thankfully I didn't like roll all the way down and, and my team leader like when I run in there, that's like, where's Bradford? And I'm like sitting there like gasping for air because I just like sprinted across the, this, you know, down this big hill.

• 38:13Speaker 02

  But um, but yeah, we got a, we got mortared about every afternoon and, and thankfully they, their mortars sucked because they missed. And um, one of the times we were actually very lucky. We were in our fob, we were in our house and we were all kicked back on our bunk beds and. My really good friend, my best friend, actually was working on the hot air tank, or whatever it was outside, and they dropped a mortar like thirty feet behind our house. And when that thing hit, we just automatically went to our gear, because it sounded like it went right through the middle of our house. And he ended up taking shrapnel in the leg, and thankfully, that was it. And that's when I realized that, you know, I had to have many friends that got killed when I was over there, but I wasn't, you know, right there

• 38:57Speaker 02

  listening to them scream as they put a tourniquet on. And that's when I realized that this is real, you know, and not only, it's like, this guy's like fighting to put a tourniquet on. And, and he's my best friend. He was my roommate when I was in Hawaii. And it really killed me. Thankfully, that he didn't lose a leg. He'd come back in a couple of weeks, and he was sitting there showing us pieces of shrapnel, and telling us that he went down to Alisa and had some ice cream. And it's like, you know, forget the way I felt about it, you know, but, but it's a, you know, a lot of the, a lot of scary moments bring together the, the true brothers, you know, and the fellowship.

• 39:35Jocko Willink?

  And then how long was it, was January is when you got injured?

• 39:42Speaker 02

  January 18, 2007, and we were, you know, four months into a deployment. We started kind of, you know, you could start hearing a little scuttlebutt about the Advon coming in, you know, we're getting ready to start heading out, you know, the, the other units coming in. And I actually was speaking to my uncle on the phone that day, you know, and we rarely got to call home. And I was telling him, I was like, you know, the deployment's going well, you know, they're starting to talk about other guys coming in, you know, and, and hung up the phone because we had to go to a brief. And the brief was the patrol. And, you know, unfortunately, I don't remember any of this part right here. I remember all the way up to like the last minute, walking down the street. And

• 40:23Speaker 02

  As I was walking point, I look out in front of me, you know, we're walking along a road alongside the Parala, or Euphrates River. It was called Park Place, and we were coming up past this compound wall into this opening with a bunch of palm trees. And I see a white bag leaned up against the palm tree about thirty yards off to my right. And as I, you know, I looked like that was a suspicious item. And I turned around to my team leader to my left, he was on the other side of the road, and I turned around to everybody behind me. And the minute I turned back around and I looked down, and there was a stitch that ran perp in the clear to the road. And I see the wires going inside the pipe underneath the road, and I was standing right on top of the pipe. And, I mean, in a matter of seconds, it exploded and sent a shrapnel into both my eyes. And that was the last thing I ever saw, was that

• 41:05Speaker 02

  white bag and those wires. And, you know, it's just laying there, conscious, like hearing everything going on around me, my squad leader calling in QRF, and, you know, just, and I actually had the litter kit in my pack. So it's like they had to figure that out. And then, the whole time I was trying to stand up, you know, I had my left leg was, it was blown off. Like, I didn't have a left leg. My right leg was severely damaged. And, but it just felt, like, people always ask me, like, what were you feeling when this was all going on? And it went so quick, that I don't even think I had a chance to feel anything. Like, I literally went from, like, walking down the patrol, seeing something suspicious, to laying on the ground, looking in darkness. And I didn't know if that was

• 41:49Speaker 02

  it, if I didn't know if I was dead. And, you know, just hearing voices around me, they put me in the kit, and they take me into a compound. And, you know, as we're waiting on QRF to get there, you know, my buddies, look, they're sitting there holding my hand, talking to me, because, you know, out of our squad, we probably got into the most firefights out of our whole company. But as we left the FOB with twelve Marines, we'd always come back with twelve Marines. We let the enemy know that, if you're gonna mess with us, we're gonna give you everything we got and more. And this was the first time that we suffered any kind of casualty. And laying there, you know, basically fighting for my life, and they're holding my hands, talking to me, but they, they didn't think

• 42:31Speaker 02

  I would make it out of there. And as QRF shows up, they put me in the back of a Humvee. And the last voice I heard was, as I mentioned earlier, the small Marine Corps, was from my senior drill instructor. Who was a platoon sergeant in the same company said Bradford, you'll be fine. And then I passed out. I didn't know if that was it. I didn't know if I was truly dead now. That was the end. I felt like I was only 20 years old then. I felt like that was the end of my life. And those are the last words I heard. And um, you know, I woke up three weeks later in a, from a coma. You know, and this is when I realized that what I truly love to do, that my true purpose in life was to serve this country, wearing the uniform.

• 43:16Speaker 02

  And it was taken from me. Like here I am in the United States while my brothers are over there in Iraq fighting right now. I felt like a coward. Like they would try to, they would call me when they could and I wouldn't want to talk to them on the phone. Like I would always tell them with some kind of excuse that I'm sleeping or I'm doing something just so I didn't have to talk to them because I felt like I let them down. And that, it, it killed me. And then once, once my dad told me that I lost my legs, that was the worst thing in the world. Then I just wanted to die. I, I, like the guilt, the depression, I, I didn't want to live a life anymore. And I always, I always told him, like when he told me that I was like, I felt like my legs were like a lizard's tail, you know?

• 43:59Speaker 02

  It's like they'll grow back. Like you see it on the news all the time, but you never expect it to happen to yourself. And here I am, I didn't care nothing about the vision. I just wanted my legs back. Cause uh, it was, it was tough. Those first two or three weeks after getting out of ICU. Like I wouldn't eat nothing. I was so skinny. I, I could barely lift my head up off the bed and the hospital band that they gave me would go all the way up to my, my bicep pretty much. Because I just wouldn't want to eat. I wanted to die. Like the nurses hated me. Like one of, one of the nurses come in like two in the morning. I finally got some sleep and she kept poking me around with the needle. And uh, I, I literally called her a stupid idiot. I'm like, and, and she wasn't my nurse no more and

• 44:43Speaker 02

  and I, I felt so bad, but you know, it just, I, I felt like my whole life was taken from me. Just from stepping in that bomb. You know, I knew what could happen to me and my whole point of being deployed was I'm either going to come home with my brothers or I'm going to come home in a body bag. There's no in the middle. And, uh, and here I am now down this whole dark path, this new road. You know, as a 20 year old, how in the world am I going to live my life now? Like I got, I don't even know what a blind gal with no legs can do.

• 45:17Jocko Willink?

  At what point did you realize that you weren't going to be able to see anymore?

• 45:21Speaker 02

  It was pretty much March 2nd, I believe was my last surgery that they tried to kind of like, give me some vision back and nothing come back from that. And, you know, by the time March 2nd got there, I was still positive, not beating. I was moving around a lot more, starting to gain weight. And, um, but you know, it's, they, they told me that they can do the surgery, but then they also told me that it's, it's not a, you know, a high percentage that you're going to get vision back at all, you know? And they started kind of like talking about, um, you know, just living life visually impaired. And, but it was, uh, it was tough. It was, it wasn't, you know, and to me, the, the vision didn't bother me much at all.

• 46:06Speaker 02

  It was losing my legs and, you know, the Marine Corps, uh, you know, it's the, joining the Marine Corps in 2004 was the great decision in my life for the reasons like this right now. Because it was the Marine Corps that was there each and every day in my hospital room talking to me and, um, helping me understand that this road that I'm getting ready to go down, you know, that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. And not only talking about my deployment or talking about the Marine Corps, but just talking about life and coming in there joking around with me. And because, uh, you know, looking back on it now, like I'm truly fortunate and blessed to be here today because the amount of blood I lost was a body's worth of blood. My left leg was taken from me.

• 46:51Speaker 02

  I have a piece of my small intestines taken out, you know, shrapnel went through both my eyes. And, and, you know, it's just, it's truly a blessing.

• 47:02Jocko Willink?

  Now, that's obviously a, a big transition of calling it a blessing and calling your, where you're at right now a blessing from when you first, you know, realized your situation and you're saying, "Hey, you, you wanted to die." I mean, that's, I mean, that's as, as bad as it gets. What do you think it was that made you start to realize, "You know what? All right, here's my new situation and I'm gonna, I'm gonna get after it."

• 47:32Speaker 02

  The Marines that would come in to visit me, they kept reiterating that I was a Marine. The nurses, the corpsmen, even though I would fight it, they never gave up on me and they still pushed and challenged me. And I think that was the one thing that made me realize that this is just a new challenge for me. You know, the one thing in the Marine Corps is to adapt and overcome. I'm gonna have to learn to adapt to these injuries and overcome it. And that's one thing that helped me realize that there's life outside those hospital doors because at that time when I was going through depression and guilt, there was two roads I could have went down, you know, the self pity, the drugs, alcoholism, suicide. But I didn't want to go down that road. I didn't want to be another statistic. I wanted to go down the road of happiness and living my life to the fullest and proving people

• 48:16Speaker 02

  wrong. People tell me I can't do something, then I'm gonna go out and do it. I want to be that blind guy with no, no legs, proving people wrong, you know, and, and that's what I always told people when I first got hurt. I was like, "Anything you can do, I can do. I might do it differently, but it's gonna get done." And during that time with that Marine coming in that hospital room, this is when I realized in my mind that this is what I want to do. I want to, I want to put myself in his position. I want to help out other severely wounded warriors, Marines, soldiers, sailors, airmen. And I began creating these goals and these, and I, you know, so a lot of them broad. The one broad one was staying in the Marine Corps. And, you know, but I realized that I need to do these little goals first. I need to learn to get out of my hospital bed. I need to go from hospital

• 49:00Speaker 02

  bed to my wheelchair and I need to learn to eat. And the, once I started realizing this and I started putting my mind in the right direction, then I started getting off medications. I started getting off pain pills and I started getting more weight on my body. And I was injured on January 18th. I was in Bethesda on January 21st and by March 21st, I was headed to my, the Polytrauma Center in Richmond, Virginia, where I would focus more on physical therapy and occupational therapy. So it's like, You know, I, I was young and I healed quicker, but once I got into my mind that I could do this, then I, I didn't need, I didn't want anybody slowing me down. And, and you know,

• 49:41Speaker 02

  I went through the poly trauma center and I was there for two months. And by June 29th of 2007, I was standing up on my prosaic legs for the first time. And

• 49:52Jocko Willink?

  You know, one of the things that I talk about when I talk to vets is I always tell them, you know, people say, well, how do we get through this? And I always say, you've got to find a new mission. And because you know, you've had this mission, whatever that mission was, whether, whatever service branch you were in, wherever you were fighting, you had a mission. And it makes your life very clear and simple because what you do every day is you try and accomplish the mission. And when I, when I hear you talking about that, it's like, it's exactly that. You were in a situation, you had a mission, boom, you get blown up. Now you don't have a mission anymore. And now when you get, you wake up

• 50:32Jocko Willink?

  in Bethesda, you're, you're in this situation, you go, oh, I don't, I don't, I'm depressed. I, I don't want to live anymore. And then someone comes in and says, hey, you could help. And then all of a sudden, boom, you have a new mission. And as soon as you get that new mission, you go, yes, I can. Oh, and by the way, you, you don't think I'm going to be able to walk? You don't think I'm going to be able to fend for myself? Watch this.

• 50:57Speaker 02

  That's on, and you know, like, looking back now, January 18, 2007, I felt like that was the day that the, the Lord above looked down on me. He didn't want me to, he didn't want me to go to heaven yet. And he gave me, he put me on a new patrol in life. As you mentioned, mission. And that was to share my story and inspire others by living my life to the fullest and beyond my own bare minimal. And I feel like that.

• 51:25Speaker 02

  I feel like that was my new mission in life, that you know, we're all brought on this earth to serve in some kind of purpose, serve some mission. And you know, sharing my story and going out doing things that I'm doing today is inspiring and motivating others, not those who were injured in combat, but people who are living, you know, a civilian life today. And it truly inspires and motivates me to continue doing what I'm doing because I know that I'm inspiring somebody along the way. And I always tell people, if I could do inspire and motivate one person a day, then that's a job well done for me. And that's what I'm left on this earth to do. And I love it, you know, it's just, this is what I've been given and I might as well

• 52:09Speaker 02

  accept it and move on, you know, improvise, something that we're always learning in the Marine Corps. And you know, when I, when I do speaking engagements, I focus on a lot of things in the Marine Corps that I learned, like adapt and overcome. And you know, the next one is lead by example, which you know a lot about, I'm sure. And then the next one's never quit. And through it all, through those three, attitude is everything. If you walk into any situation with a positive attitude, that's the first step to success. If you think about something negatively, then you're never going to accomplish anything. So when I was laying in that hospital bed, there was no negative thoughts, you know, and I had guys, one of the Marines who were actually was wounded two months before me,

• 52:51Speaker 02

  lost a leg in Haditha, would come in day and night. And he would also kind of tell me, it's like, all right, this is what's going to go on, you know, you're going to get a prosthetic, it's going to be a long, you know, it's the rehab's intense, but this is it, you know, but put one foot in front of the next. And that's what I kept living life with. And when I was trying to learn how to walk in 2007, I was a, as a double MPT, you tend to scissor walk, one foot in front of the next, and you pretty much trip over yourself and you look like an idiot. But um. But with vision, I was going from the right wall to the left wall. And my physical therapist stopped me and was like, Matt, just stop, just, just walk. Put one foot in front of the next. And I look back on that now, and that's how we live each and every day.

• 53:34Speaker 02

  It's like, we never know what tomorrow's gonna hold, or next week. We just gotta worry about right now in the present. And that's how I live my life right now. And I never know what that next step's gonna be, but I'm gonna take that step forward. You know, and, you know, I might walk around with two prosthetic legs and look darkness in the, you know, the face every day, but I'll tell you one thing. My, uh, my toes are pointed forward and my vision on life is 2020. And that's what I tell people today, and it's, uh, I love it. I love it. And it's, you know, it's the adrenaline, the motivation to do things when you can't see. And it hurts when you run into things too, so.

• 54:13Jocko Willink?

  So the attitude of just walk, that's, that's a, that's a beautiful attitude to have. Just walk. Quit, quit all this other stuff, just get up, walk. How hard was the transition from the bed to the wheelchair, to the, to the prosthetics, to walking, to moving on the prosthetics?

• 54:34Speaker 02

  It really, I think getting used to the prosthetics was, you know, basically getting my legs used to wearing prosthetics. And that, that was the hardest thing because like I would go to therapy every day. And I would put them on and I'd walk around in therapy, but then I'd go right back to the wheelchair. And I really never, never wore them more than, you know, a couple hours a day, just because I'd swarm in therapy until I went to the, the blind school in Chicago. And this gave me the opportunity where I had no chance to go back to my room and take them off. So I had to wear them from seven in the morning to five at night. And that's helped me strengthen up my legs and the calluses on my legs get used to wearing prosthetics. And once I got back from the, the blind school, six months there, I was pretty much on my

• 55:19Speaker 02

  legs from sunrise to sunset. And, and that was, uh, but you know, through, you know, setting these goals early on in my rehab, like, you know, re-enlisting in the Marine Corps was the one thing that I wanted to do. And so, learning how to walk, I focused on that more than my, my blindness because I, I knew. Learning, uh, learning life, you know, in the dark would be a lot easier with legs. And that helped out so much because I, I tried to maneuver around in a wheelchair, being blind and a long cane and all this stuff. And I just kept running into more things. But once I got on my legs and I started using a long cane and started walking around and, you know, I, it, it really helped out a lot. So like the-

• 56:02Jocko Willink?

  That's like the ultimate form of prioritize and execute. Like, yeah, you know what? Okay. I can't see, but I can't walk. The number one thing I'm gonna do is learn how to walk. That's what you did.

• 56:11Speaker 02

  And that, that's the one thing like, you know, it's, you said get from the hospital bed to the wheelchair to the prosthetics. And then go to the blind school, knock that out. And once I'm at the blind school, I'm learning everything from computer to independent living.

• 56:23Jocko Willink?

  And that's a six month school, going to the blind school?

• 56:25Speaker 02

  The, the, the first program is six months and that's basically learning to live, being visually impaired. And you go back for computers and, um, they got so many different programs now, but I went there for, basically from July to December, just because I incorporated computers in with my program as well. And, uh, so I spent from July to December in, in Chicago. So I experienced the cold weather there, but, you know, I learned everything from, you know, checking emails to Braille, to taking, um, taking a subway and train all the way downtown Chicago and circling a block and even build a birdhouse when I was in Chicago.

• 57:07Speaker 02

  And I don't know about you, but a table saw scared me when I had vision. Trying to, trying to cut, cut a piece of board with no vision. That, that's a little intimidating there, but, uh, I didn't lose a finger thankfully. So.

• 57:22Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. You know, that, that's another thing that I'm, I'm hearing about what you're saying is like, the way, and, and this is something you hear all the time, but the way that you're describing it is people say, oh, you know, you're gonna get your big goal. You know, you got your big goal in the future, but what you have to do is you have to set up these little goals along the way to get you there that are pointing in the right direction. So your big goal is you wanted to stay in the Marine Corps, be able to reenlist. In order to be able to do that, you had to be able to walk, you had to be able to function. And so you just had to fight through these little things every single day to make progress. And it's funny because, you know, the, the way I've honestly described this before is like, it's like shooting.

• 58:03Jocko Willink?

  When you're looking, you know, you got your target that's far off in the distance, 400 meters away. If you stare at that thing, your vision's going to get blurry and you'll lose track of it. So you have to focus on the front sight, this front sight focus, that's what you do. And that, the, the thing in the background, you know, it kind of fades a little bit, but you know it's there. And then what happens is occasionally, and so it's the same thing with your goals, right? You have your long-term goal, but that thing's so far away sometimes it gets blurry. And if you, and so what you do is you focus on some little thing that's right in front of you that you can do. And then that brings you a little bit closer to the goal. But occasionally, those little things that are short-term, you're doing them day after day after day after day. They, they start to grind on you and you say, you know what? Forget it. I don't even want to do this today.

• 58:46Jocko Willink?

  And that's when you have to look up once again at your long-term goal and say, wait a second. I'm moving in that direction. I'm trying to get there. But to hear you describe these little things, and by the way, you're throwing them out there like it's no big deal. Like, oh, I just was, I went from the bed to the wheelchair to the, to the, to the prosthetics. Then I went to the blind school and the next thing you know, I'm making bird cages or bird feeders. And like, I'm, I mean, the, the, the small effort or the small task that took immense effort along the way. But you know, from my perspective, what I see is you made each and every one of those things a mission. Like, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do that. Okay. I can do that now. Cool. I'm going to do this. And these are small, little progressive steps, but you're making them and you're making them every day.

• 59:28Jocko Willink?

  Every day you get up and you just walk, walk forward.

• 59:32Speaker 02

  And that's the one thing with being in the Marine Corps and has really helped me out along this way is, you know, being organized and getting in that routine where, you know, you wake up each and every day. It's like, okay, I'm going to knock this out. This is my goal for the day. And, you know, bettering myself was one of the goals. Cause I knew that if I couldn't get nothing done in this life, if I didn't better myself first. And, you know, through the early days of my recovery, getting off pain pills was one of the first things that I wanted to do as well. And it's been 12 years since I last took a pain pill. And that's, you know, and it's, I didn't, I didn't want my life to, you know, revert back to pain pills. And just, you know, I feel a little bit of pain, then, then I'm going to go get, take a pill.

• 1:00:16Speaker 02

  And, you know, I replaced that with staying busy, staying active, going to the gym, working out. And, and it really helped out a lot. I didn't just.

• 1:00:29Speaker 02

  You know, if I felt like if I got pain, then I'm gonna go give it some pain, you know? And that's, and that's, and it's the one thing, and it's just, you know, through it, through it all, I've, I've learned along the way is like, people told me I couldn't do something, or I can't do it, why do you want to stay in the Marine Corps? You make so much more money outside of the Marine Corps. I'm like, well, I didn't join the Marine Corps for money, you know? And that's, that, that, I've used that as motivation, and it guided me along this way. And, and, you know, I just, I pretty much just like, whatever, you know? You think that for yourself, but I know what I, my mission in life is. And I kept a positive attitude, and people saw that. And, you know, and, once I got back from the blind school in 2009, I started getting out, doing these events.

• 1:01:10Speaker 02

  And the first event I actually did was something I opened my mouth up to my physical therapist and forgot all about until like, two months before, was the Baton Death March in 2009. And he walked up to me, and he was like, oh, Matt, you're gonna do the Baton Death March this year, right? You said last year. I'm like, oh crap. And, you know, I walked out, and I did 10 miles in eight hours, and that was the first, like, I was proud of doing 10 miles in eight hours, but that was the first vent, first hike that I ever fell out of, that I quit on.

• 1:01:38Jocko Willink?

  So for people that don't know, the Baton Death March is an event that they do out here, and it's, it's 26 miles, right?

• 1:01:44Speaker 02

  It is.

• 1:01:45Jocko Willink?

  And you gotta bring a, you gotta wear a ruck?

• 1:01:48Speaker 02

  Some people, yeah. I, I just wear camelback. But they do it.

• 1:01:54Jocko Willink?

  Well, explain, explain what, what the Baton Death March is. Obviously, it's to commemorate, or to, to remember the, the folks that were actually on the real Baton Death March. But what is one that they do here?

• 1:02:06Speaker 02

  This, this year actually was their 30th annual Baton Memorial Death March in White Sands, New Mexico. When I did it in 2009, they, it's a 26.2 long, or mile-long marathon, and then they also have a 14-mile honorary. And, um, the, the 26.2 mile is actually up a mountain, and down a mountain, and it's, it's intense, because you're walking through the sands, and a part of it is this loose sand pit, and...

• 1:02:34Speaker 02

  It's a, you know, it's, it's a good test, especially for people with prosthetics and, you know, and your kind of endurance and see how far you can go. And when I signed up in 2009, I walked 10 miles out in eight hours. And I was like, all right, that's pretty proud. You know, I just got hurt two years ago. But then I, I like, again, like I quit. And then that really bugged me. And I use that as motivation and it humbled me knowing that, all right, you know, I was a good runner before. I never quit on any hikes. Like I would always finish. And then I realized that, okay, I'm not who I am before. So I gotta learn, learn this way now, you know, and not everything's as easy as it used to be. But once, once

• 1:03:17Speaker 02

  I finished, like I told the lady, I told my therapist, I was like, once I'm done, I'm putting my medical board and I'm going for my reenlistment package. And, and I was like, all right, 10 miles in. And, and that was in March of 2009. And basically August of 2009, I got my, you know, my ratings back, of course, a hundred percent. And I chose to go through the EPLD program, extended but permanent limited duty. And that took all the way till April 2000, well, the end of March of 2010. And actually today, April 1st would been, was the day that I was promoted to corporal. And with the battalion commander that called me when I was in San Antonio was like, hey, congratulations, you're getting promoted to corporal. And I was like, sir, is this an April Fool's joke? You know, it's

• 1:04:01Speaker 02

  like, and it's a, and but, but on April 7, 2010, I reenlisted. I raised my right hand and got a chance to stay in the Marine Corps for a few more years. And that, that was the greatest thing ever, right there.

• 1:04:14Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, no, that's, that's the reason why I started off today reading that oath. Because for you to be doing that in the condition you were in, having already sacrificed and saying, you know what, I got more to give and I'm going to give it.

• 1:04:25Speaker 02

  And that's the one thing like when I was mentioned lead by example, one of my therapists told me, you know, as I go to therapy every day and I put my legs on, I stand up, I walk out, you know, just I do my own thing. And he's like, Matt, you don't ever, you won't see this, of course, and you will never realize this, but every day when you walk in here, you sit down and you put your prosthetics on and get up and walk out, people stare at you and people will look at you. And, and that's the right thing to lead by example, you know, it's like if you wake up each and every day and you do it the right way, then people will follow, you know, and, and I've learned now, it's like from living my life, it's just to wake up and continue doing the right thing, then people will follow. And you know, it's, it's, it's something that I focus a lot on. It's not being an intense

• 1:05:09Speaker 02

  yelling leader, but it's just doing it the right way. And that's something that I've done along the way. And of course, in therapy, if you're in the Marine and you're an Army guy on the ground, then you don't want that Marine up there walking, it's like, I need to beat this guy.

• 1:05:21Jocko Willink?

  And then you also ended up going to college, right?

• 1:05:26Speaker 02

  I did, I, I did.

• 1:05:27Jocko Willink?

  And what year did you start college?

• 1:05:29Speaker 02

  I started in 2011 at Coastal Carolina Community College in Jacksonville, North Carolina. Once I re-enlisted, they asked me where I wanted to go. I don't want to go to Wounded Warrior Battalion, East Campbell, June, because I realized my, I could help out more there. And I got there and in 2011, I went on a closure trip back to Iraq. And that's when I realized that I joined the Marine Corps to deploy and I can't deploy now, but I could still share my story and I don't have to share my story wearing the uniform.

• 1:05:56Jocko Willink?

  Is it the Marine Corps that takes you on the closure trip?

• 1:05:59Speaker 02

  It was a nonprofit, Troops First Foundation and it's, and actually the, the episode that I went on 60 Minutes aired it in 2011.

• 1:06:08Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 1:06:09Speaker 02

  So it's on YouTube, but a nice plug.

• 1:06:12Jocko Willink?

  Well, we'll watch it then.

• 1:06:13Speaker 02

  But it's a, but I learned a lot about my time in the Marine Corps and, and the one thing with being a Marine is you're always a Marine. And that's a title I get to take to my grave. And when I'm 85 years old, I could look at my great grandkids and be like, I served in the United States Marine Corps. And so it's, and during that time, we were starting a family and I was getting ready to take college classes. So. The one thing that I'm very fortunate about is everything through life, like it's each step, each chapter, it comes right after the next one. Like, I never have a time to sit down and think about what's next. And, you know, I got out in 2012, and we moved right back to Kentucky, and I started taking college classes, and, you know, my brilliant and amazing wife, you

• 1:06:58Speaker 02

  know, while we're trying to figure out where we want to live, she's like, "Your dream school is University of Kentucky. So, let's move back to there, and you can go to school there and graduate there." And I started taking classes there in 2014, and May of 2017, I walked across the stage at Rupp Arena and got my diploma in media arts and history. And it's a, you know, not only a Marine for life, but a Wildcat for life. And I felt, I felt, I feel a little strange being the, you know, the 30-year-old, like, kid, you know, partying like a 10-year-old there when the basketball team won, or something like that, you know. I'm just that old creepy dude over there now, and not the youngster anymore. But, but it was, um, it was fun to go back and take college classes, and everything that I learned, that I should have learned in

• 1:07:43Speaker 02

  high school, like, I'm like, loving college now. And I spoke at a child development center a couple of months ago, and the kids asked me, and it's like, "What do you think of school?" I'm like, "You know, it's, I wasn't the greatest of students in high school, but I tell you what, I loved college. I loved going back and reading books. I love to read now. And, and it, it just expands my mind and my knowledge on things. And it's a, you know, it's good going down, sitting down with people, and, and you could share stories on different things, and not just something about the military, but you could talk about this and this. And, you know, it's, uh, it was fun.

• 1:08:23Jocko Willink?

  So, do you, you're, I want to just kind of jump back to your workouts a little bit. And I know you post some of your workouts in, uh, on Twitter and stuff, some little shots sometimes. I know you posted one the other day of you pushing a sled, said you were pushing the sled all the way out to California, legit. Uh, do you wake, you wake up every day, is that the first thing you do, is, is try and get your workout in?

• 1:08:45Speaker 02

  I try to, I prefer working out in the morning, but now with traveling and, you know, catching up hours at work, I got to do evening workouts, which I, I hate doing evening workouts. I'm ready to get home, take my legs off, but, but those are the, those are the, I work out in the evening. I tried to- Get them in as much as I possibly can. I love to work out and if not, then I'll just do it at home. I got some dumbbells and curls. I'll do curls there. And um, but you know, throughout, throughout the day, I'm like constantly on my legs, walking around, you know, doing some cardio. But you know, I love, I love taking shots at you there Jaco on Twitter, you know, and that's a, um, I think one of the tweets I actually mentioned to you, I was like, you do the squat and I'll do

• 1:09:25Speaker 02

  the push in the sled. But uh, you know, it's like even through, even through training, my trainer, it's funny because I joke with him all the time. I'm like, his name's Josh and I'm like, look, you're just here to walk me from machine to machine. All right. I'll tell you what I want to work out today. And, and um, like it'd get to the point where I'm getting bored doing pull ups. Put some chains on me. Now I'll do some pull ups with some chains on me and something like that. I'll do some pushups or I'll get to the bench press and do some chains on the bench press. And it's like, just something else to challenge it instead of sticking to the same old thing, you know, everyday thing. And it's a, and you know, I'm personal best on the bench press a

• 1:10:05Speaker 02

  couple of weeks ago at 260. I'm proud of that. And then course pushing the sled and um, but now it's like, you know, I've, I've learned doing the, I do Spartan races and marathons and I've done a marathon and I did a marathon and I forgot what year it was, but I didn't work out or get back on the bike for a whole year. And after doing the next marathon, I was so sore for like a week. And I realized like, if I stay active in the gym and work out, then I'm not as sore. And um, so like I

• 1:10:33Jocko Willink?

  News flash.

• 1:10:34Speaker 02

  Yeah. Stay in the gym. And it's a, so it's like I, I work out as much as I possibly can because it's like, I never know what, what, you know, this, the organization I do a lot of these events with, like, sometimes they'll just call me up like, hey, you want to do a Spartan race in two weeks? It's like, oh, sure. You know, and, and you know, through

• 1:10:55Speaker 02

  Let me start, let me start drinking some water now. And but, and you know, it's like through this, it's like each year I try to find something new to do. And for some weird reason, this year I was like, I've, I've got on a stationary bike because my goal is to In July, I'm going to bike from Seattle to Portland. It's like a 203 mile, two day event. And then my ultimate goal in August is to bike across Kentucky on a tandem bike. And so I got on a stationary bike in January for the first time I got on any kind of bike in 20 years. And I'm like, holy smokes, this is weird. And it's like my left leg, like the above the knee side, like it didn't work so well on pedaling. So I just took it off and started pedaling on my right leg.

• 1:11:38Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 1:11:39Speaker 02

  The most I've done was 7.5 miles in 26 minutes. And I went to my trainer and I looked at my wife and I'm like, this is the one thing that I feel like I'm doing normal. You know, I feel like I can keep up with somebody with legs. And so I really enjoyed that and I'm looking forward to it. But, um, you know, like last year I climbed Mount Rainier or half of, half of Mount Rainier. And this year I'm going to go out and summit it hopefully in July. So that is a, anything I can do to really like challenge myself. And I always, uh, I always tell my prosthetists, I'm like any, like I got the X3 on my left leg, which is like the best of the best. And I'm like, my goal in life is to break this leg. It's like, if I could break it, then that's the, that's a check in the box and, you know.

• 1:12:23Jocko Willink?

  And, uh, the, uh, Baton Death March. You went back at that thing, right?

• 1:12:29Speaker 02

  I attacked that two weeks ago and I don't know if you know what it feels like to run into a train. But that's what I felt like Monday afternoon. But it was, uh, the 2009 really, like I mentioned, it humbled me and it motivated me, you know, for the next 10 years. It's like everything I'm going to do, I'm going to focus on this right here. Like I went into Baton in 2009 and then my prosthetics wasn't as good or advanced as they are now. So when I went out there two weeks ago, um, I knocked it out 14 miles. I knocked out eight miles and we, we stepped off at 6:56 and by 11:20, I hit the eight mile marker. They gave me a 45 minute mile pace and I was knocked out a mile in 25 minutes.

• 1:13:11Speaker 02

  And it was, I don't know if it was, uh, my knee was hurting or just the whole fact that I'm getting ready to cross the finish line, but it was like, I'd get a little emotional. I'm like, then this is really happening, you know? And to go out and walk this far on two prosthetics. And I tell you one thing, the miles are a lot longer when you can't see, that's for sure. And, but, um, it was, it was fun, you know, and. I was I was out of my legs for about a week. Actually, this last Tuesday is the first time I put my legs on for the first time. So it's a but you know.

• 1:13:45Jocko Willink?

  Is that because you just trashed the skin?

• 1:13:47Speaker 02

  My left leg had a couple of little rough spots on it. And so my wife, she took a picture and sent my process and then she become my nurse. And but not to mention this Saturday, I just walked 3.65 miles in a like a they call it it's a run the bluegrass in Lexington. And my wife, she sent me a text and she was like, Hey, I think about walking this. You can get your wheelchair and I'll push you. Like, I'm not going to get a medal sitting in a wheelchair. I'm either going to walk it or I'm not going to do it. Okay. And so we signed up for the 3.65 miles and we will finish that in an hour and 23 minutes. And for some weird reason, I think walking might be my thing this year, too. But had to get you out and do a race with us.

• 1:14:28Jocko Willink?

  Come and get it.

• 1:14:29Speaker 02

  Hey, I've been I've been looking into the um, what's the what's the Navy SEAL obstacle course?

• 1:14:35Jocko Willink?

  Oh, the uh, well, you mean the one that's in Coronado, the actual obstacle course?

• 1:14:39Speaker 02

  Oh, no, no, not that one. I'm not that advanced yet. No, I'm a Marine. Is it the bona fide or bone frog?

• 1:14:45Jocko Willink?

  Oh, the bone frog. Yeah.

• 1:14:47Speaker 02

  Yeah. So I've been looking into that. So.

• 1:14:49Jocko Willink?

  Right on. Well, I'm sure those guys will hook you up if you want to go and get after it.

• 1:14:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't I'm not big on the water and stuff there. But you know, we'll do everything else.

• 1:14:56Jocko Willink?

  That might not be a great combination if you don't like the water too much. Because I'm sure they put some water into that.

• 1:15:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's a yeah, that's a no.

• 1:15:04Jocko Willink?

  Hey, what was that? What was that closure trip? You know, speaking about emotional, I'd had to be emotional going going to Iraq again.

• 1:15:12Speaker 02

  It was the whole um, when it was mentioned to me in 2011, the only image in my mind that kept popping up is like, either a black hawk going down or C 130 or something happening because it's like I walked away. Actually, I was medevaced out of that country, you know, from from my injury. So it's like, I had no good, good image of that country at all. And it was nerve wracking. It was even more nerve wracking being around like the Iraqi security forces. You know, they're clearing rooms and doing mount training. And here we stand with no weapons or anything. Like when I was in Iraq, no Iraqis had rifles or AKs. And so that that really kind of um.

• 1:15:54Speaker 02

  It it it made me worried a lot, but I think one of the coolest moments that that really helped me understand it was we were meeting the Iraqi security forces and they were all walking up, shaking our hands and and, you know, good uniforms and um they had a patch and one of the guys took his patch off and put it on my flak jacket and gave me a big hug and I'm like, you know what, this is this is it, one team, one fight here, you know, and there's there's bad people all over this world, but there's a lot more good people in this world too. And and I think and it really um it it it made the trip as we were flying back home, we were going over Iceland and the pilot brought back this little letter and he gave it to my buddy and my buddy read it to me and it said, US forces have killed

• 1:16:38Speaker 02

  Osama bin Laden. And I was like, you know, that's the perfect closure to a closure trip. Because like, we all joined the military after 2001 to go after him, you know, to kill him. And and knowing that this happened on my closure trip, it's like, it it it honestly, like, gave me, it got me emotional. I was just ready to go home with my family. And that that that capped it off pretty well. And I will say, when I was in Iraq in 2006, Saddam Hussein was killed. So Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden, you know, so it's like, why not? But you know what, like, I got so much out of that closure trip, I learned a lot about my life and like, what the next step in my life is. And but like I mentioned

• 1:17:23Speaker 02

  earlier, like, when I went back to Afghanistan in 2017, never been to Afghanistan before in my life, but I felt like I got more out of that closure trip. Because going to Iraq in 2011, I was still in the Marine Corps, wearing the uniform every day. In Afghanistan, I hadn't put the uniform on in five years. And to put the uniform back on and go around and speak to soldiers about my Marine Corps career and be around the military again, truly made me miss it more than anything in the world. And, you know, the brothers that I met in the Marine Corps and in the military alone, like, they're forever going to be there, you know, no matter where you live at in this country, they're always going to be there for you. And knowing that

• 1:18:05Speaker 02

  The you, you know, the, the name tag across your chest, United States of America. That, that means more to me than anything in this world. And if, if I was called back to serve this country again and again, knowing the risk and what could happen to me, then I'd go back and do it all over again because these last 12 years have been truly amazing. And I've done things that I would never thought I could do, and I've done it differently. And like through the journaling, through the adversity, and it's just, it's inspired and motivated me to come along the way. And, you know, and it's, it's, it's a, it's a life I love to live. And even in the dark, but I know one day will come and then there will be light in my eyes, you know,

• 1:18:48Speaker 02

  and I'll be able to open my eyes and see every day. But for right now, I'm going to live my life to the fullest.

• 1:18:55Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's incredible. Do you, do you ever, you know, I, I'll hear from people all the time, oh, I don't feel like doing this today. I don't feel like doing, I don't want to work out today. I don't want to, I don't want to get up and do my job today, you know? Does that, when you hear that kind of thing, what are your thoughts on that?

• 1:19:16Speaker 02

  I know for me personally, when I wake up and I don't feel like doing something, then I try to, or if I feel like I'm in a down mood, then I try to keep that in, in the house. Like I don't want to go out in the public because I don't want people to see that. Like when I go out in public, I want them to see happy Matt, you know, positive. But hearing people like just, it, it, it's hard to hear people complain about things these days, you know? And because, you know, I know what Iraq looked like and, you know, I was in Afghanistan. And, you know, I know what happened to me and I know where I was 12 years ago and what I had to do to overcome that. You know, and it's just, some people just, when they feel like they can't do it, they just get down in the dumps and they give up.

• 1:19:58Speaker 02

  And really it's like, you gotta learn to battle through those adversities. And you know, at the end of the day, when you put your head down on the pillow and close your eyes, you wake up to a new day. You know, and a new day with new challenges, but you gotta learn to overcome those challenges because in life, it's a mountain. You're going to continue to climb up a mountain and it's never going to flatten out. You're constantly going to go over any, you know, obstacles, boulders, whatever's in your way. And the only way to go over it is to climb it. It's not to find the easy way around or turn around and quit, you know? And you gotta learn to just overcome things and, and honestly, never give up, never quit.

• 1:20:34Jocko Willink?

  Yep, I mean, clearly you represent that to the fullest. So what are you doing right now in terms, I know you've got a job, what's that, what's that all about?

• 1:20:45Speaker 02

  So, um, it's funny how I got this job because my last year at UK, I was, I had to go for an internship. And the internship, internship that I was going for was at the, where I go hunting at. And I was like, okay, well, I'll do that. But then like people kept tagging me on Facebook about this Wounded Warrior Fellowship position that was opening up. And I was like, Matt, you should try this out. And I contacted one of my friends and, and he was like, yeah, just show up at our office on this date. And, um, you could intern with us and then we'll talk about the position. And I show up on the first day at our office and everybody's like, who are you? I'm like, and then he ended up getting kind of in trouble for this, but, but it was a, so I, you know, I interned there and then, um, went through the interview in June and basically was hired on the spot.

• 1:21:30Speaker 02

  And I've been working with the congressional office for two years doing veterans outreach. You know, we, I do some casework with veterans, but truly it's just getting out in the district and being around veterans and kind of letting them know what kind of legislative, the bills are out there that could affect them both positive and negatively. I mean, there's so much out there that they need to know about. And it's been truly a joy, you know, getting to work with a lot of Vietnam veterans. And, um, you know, these are some of the happiest guys that I've ever met in my life for what they had to go through, you know, and, and just hearing them walk up to me and be like, because I've had them come just to our office in tears, just to like, to shake my hand or get a hug from me and stuff like that, going through, you know, heart problems or whatever.

• 1:22:15Speaker 02

  And they're like, you know what, just being here and seeing you and what you've gone through. That motivates me to continue doing what I'm doing because you're inspiring me. And it brings tears to my eyes because it's like, you know, it's as a veteran, you know, veterans serving veterans, we need to look out for our own. It doesn't matter if it's a job or not, but you know, the suicide rate right now is sad. And, you know, we got to learn to reach out and be with each other because we're the only ones that trust and the only ones that will open up to each other. And that's the one thing that I've really, you know, I've tried at first, which is very hard to keep my personal life from my work side. But, you know, these, it's when you sit down and you talk to a veteran and you share what

• 1:22:57Speaker 02

  you went through and, and they share what they went through and you kind of come together and you talk about things and you, you know, at the end of the day that you're helping them out just as much as they're helping you out. It truly means the world and it's, it knows that, you know, veterans, serving veterans, we need to stick together.

• 1:23:15Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, there's, there's no doubt. And you're doing all that and you're also raising three kids.

• 1:23:23Speaker 02

  Three kids, three amazing kids, actually. And, uh, you know, my wife and I, we're, uh, April 7th would be our seventh, uh, wedding anniversary. So we're, uh, but you know, it's through it all, the one thing that if I could teach anybody in life, it's teaching those kids that, you know, challenges are going to come, but you've got to find a way. Life isn't easy. Life's hard. And, and if they could look at me and look at what I've gone through and what I continue to do today and use that as motivation to, you know, better themselves and better their lives and understand that, yes, I might've failed this test, but you know what? I'm going to go home and I'm going to get in the book and I'm going to, I'm going to get an A on this next one. And that's all that matters. And, you know, to talk about them a little bit, Nolan, who's 15, he'll turn 16 in a

• 1:24:08Speaker 02

  couple of weeks. Couple of years ago, he had a birthday party and, and, um, there was this girl in his class or in his school that had no arms and no legs and he didn't know her, but he went up to her and gave her a birthday. Um, uh, he invited her to his birthday and it like, he come home and told me and Amanda that, and that truly brought tears to her eyes because it's like, they're, they get it. You know, when I was their age, if I saw a kid that was in, you know, a special ed class, I didn't walk up and try to talk to them. I, you know, I felt like they were different than me and I stayed away from that. But you know, knowing that he walked up to a girl with no arms and no legs and was,

• 1:24:51Speaker 02

  you know, invited her to his birthday party, truly brought tears to our eyes because it's like, again, he gets it. He's growing up. He's a man right now, you know, and Emma, she is just as mature as she is so helpful and caring and compassionate. And Leila is the same thing, you know, she's seven years old right now, but it's the cutest thing in the world is to hear her get around her friends and tell her stories about how I got hurt. You know, somehow the bad guys blew my legs off and killed me and she told her teacher that and I can only imagine what her teacher thought when I walked in the classroom, you know, but, but it's just, you know, they're always there. If I need them, they're there to help out. And you know, to,

• 1:25:33Speaker 02

  to my wife, I mean, she's truly amazing. She has a job herself, but she stops everything she can to get me to work, me to an event, me to a speaking engagement, to wherever, to get the three kids to wherever they need to go. Our two girls are in horseback riding lessons right now. And still she finds time to work out twice a day, actually. She, you know, nine to, nine to two job and, and it's, you know, she does dinner, laundry, everything. And then she still crawls in bed by eight o'clock at night. I mean, you know, if there's motivation in my life and there's a true hero for me to look up to, it's her because she's truly amazing. And I couldn't ask for a better wife and a better, you know, friend, best friend, role

• 1:26:17Speaker 02

  model mentor. And, you know, if there's any award out there to give to her, then, I mean, it, I would, I would be up for it and I'd be the first one to sign on to it.

• 1:26:27Jocko Willink?

  Well, that's awesome. It sounds like you, uh, it sounds like you found the perfect, the perfect girl for you.

• 1:26:34Speaker 02

  She is. And you know, throughout all of this, it's, you know, the, the hardest thing is to, to sit back and like appreciate it. And the one thing that I truly don't like, I, I always cross, if I cross the finish line, I always look to see what's next. I don't sit back and enjoy it. And she's there to kind of like, to almost honestly humble me a little bit. To sit back and like, let me remember what I went through to get to where I am today. And without her, I don't know if I could live this life right now. And you know, it's always talk about it. It's um, you know, it's a tough road, you know, I'm, I'm, I am blind. I have bad days.

• 1:27:13Speaker 02

  And some days I don't want to wake up and go on, but I tell you every day, you know, or every night I pray that maybe one day I'll wake up and I'll be able to see my wife and my kids. And when I wake up, I still look at darkness and then I go through my morning routine and I still grab my prosthetic legs and I put them on. So I'm constantly reminded of January 18th, 2007. And I use that motivation to go on and love my family and love my kids and go out and do these extraordinary things. Because I'm never going to let that guy who pushed that button and blew me up defeat me. Even though I don't know where he's at right now, he's never going to get the sense of relief that he defeated me that day. And you know, while I'm going through these bad moments, I mean, nothing soothes the soul

• 1:27:56Speaker 02

  and makes the heart feel so much better than hearing your seven year old daughter walk into you and say, hey daddy, I love you.

• 1:28:07Jocko Willink?

  All right, man. Um, I don't even know if I have anything else to say after that, man. That's just, uh, that's awesome. Um, I, yeah, man. I think we're good. I think we're good. I think, I think that's a good place to stop. Uh, man, it's just awesome to, uh, sit here and talk to you and, you know, hear your story. Um, I know Echo's got a couple of things to cover. What do you got, Echo?

• 1:28:40Speaker 01

  Sure, a few things. It, I always think about this too, like, you know how, um, Matt, you're saying, like you can choose to kind of go down two paths, right? So, and it, this picture starts to get, uh, kind of painted in my head when I hear like these cool stories. So like, I don't know, you know, like if you're, uh,

• 1:29:02Speaker 01

  It's gonna be a bad analogy, but bear with.

• 1:29:04Jocko Willink?

  We all know you're good. We all know you're good at bad analogies.

• 1:29:08Speaker 01

  So let's say you're trying to, I don't know, like, let's say you have an ant problem, right?

• 1:29:14Jocko Willink?

  You mean like little bugs? Ants?

• 1:29:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:18Jocko Willink?

  Not like, not like, not like my ant.

• 1:29:20Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no, not the ant. Okay. So let's say you have an ant problem, right? So it's, it's, it's you against the ants, right? So let's say you say, okay, I'm gonna set out these traps for the, let's not ants, let's say mice, let's say mice.

• 1:29:32Jocko Willink?

  I was gonna say, cause if you got ant traps, you know.

• 1:29:35Speaker 01

  So there's a mousetrap. Let's say you put a mousetrap out for your, uh, mouse problem, right? And then, uh, you know, someone, uh, or a mouse comes and gets caught in the trap.

• 1:29:45Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:46Speaker 01

  You don't kill it, though. You were trying to kill the, all the mice, right?

• 1:29:49Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 1:29:50Speaker 01

  But you don't kill the mouse. The mouse, like somehow you mess it up, though. But the mouse gets away. So not only did you not kill the, and then the mouse now goes, recovers, and now teaches all other mice how to get past mousetraps.

• 1:30:04Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 1:30:04Speaker 01

  Your mousetrap kinda worked against you. So like, just like when Matt said, oh yeah, that guy who pressed the button to, to, you know, to blow up the bomb. You get me? He did the opposite of what he was trying to do. See what I'm saying?

• 1:30:17Jocko Willink?

  Oh, I see what you're saying. That's actually a good analogy. Okay, credit for that one.

• 1:30:21Speaker 01

  Not saying that Matt is a mouse. I'm not saying that. But I'm just saying, you know, concept.

• 1:30:26Jocko Willink?

  But he has the, the will and fortitude and the lessons.

• 1:30:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:30:30Jocko Willink?

  Most important.

• 1:30:31Speaker 01

  So the guy who made the bomb kinda screwed himself.

• 1:30:33Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:34Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? In this big way. That's what I'm saying.

• 1:30:36Speaker 02

  Yeah. And it's, it's, you know, kind of, it's hard to say that you just call me a mouse, but.

• 1:30:43Speaker 02

  You know, it's like, at the end of the day, it's like, you know, I, I look back at you altogether, just being a marine. You know, and never quit, never quit on my brothers and never quitting on the situation it's given to me. And I'll use, you know, the amputations and the blindness and all this stuff stacked against me as motivation, you know? And every now and then it like steers its ugly head, but you know, thankfully for my wife, my family and, you know, the mindset and mentality that I have right now and the friends that I've surrounded myself with, that, you know, I kinda push it back and, you know, kick its butt.

• 1:31:16Jocko Willink?

  Yes, sir. Indeed. Speaking of kicking butt.

• 1:31:20Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:31:21Jocko Willink?

  What do you got for us?

• 1:31:21Speaker 01

  On the path. Matt's on the path. He's been on the path.

• 1:31:24Jocko Willink?

  Matt, have you ever tried jiu jitsu yet?

• 1:31:27Speaker 02

  If you could teach a blind guy with no legs jiu jitsu, then I'm all for it.

• 1:31:30Jocko Willink?

  Well, I've definitely taught blind guys jiu jitsu and I've definitely taught guys with no legs jiu jitsu.

• 1:31:35Speaker 02

  Well, let's put them together now.

• 1:31:36Jocko Willink?

  Guess what?

• 1:31:38Jocko Willink?

  I think you might find it easier than the baton death march.

• 1:31:41Speaker 01

  Yes, certainly.

• 1:31:42Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, no, man, you can definitely, you can train jiu jitsu all day long. Ryan Jobe, you know, one of my guys who is blinded and I trained with him and he wrestled too in high school. So he had some background, but yeah, you can, there's people that competitively, yeah, that compete with, with no vision and the no legs thing, well, then you just learn jiu jitsu is adaptable.

• 1:32:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:07Jocko Willink?

  Uh, so you can, you can adapt it as you, as you are quite good at.

• 1:32:11Speaker 02

  Well, you know my hashtag, no legs, no vision, no problem. So, uh, anything, anything out there, I'll do it.

• 1:32:16Speaker 01

  Actually, some jiu jitsu training we used to do, they, you know, they say, close your eyes. When you train, you start back to back.

• 1:32:22Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:23Speaker 01

  And the thing is, once you have, have contact with a guy.

• 1:32:27Jocko Willink?

  Yep.

• 1:32:28Speaker 01

  Like being able to see him isn't that much of an advantage.

• 1:32:31Jocko Willink?

  I sometimes close my eyes just because, so, so, yeah, the thing with grappling is you learn, well, you learn to know what the other person's doing by feel and you don't really need, cause you can't see, what are you going to see anyways? You see like their armpit.

• 1:32:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:45Jocko Willink?

  Or whatever, you see their, their, yeah. So you don't get to see much anyways.

• 1:32:49Speaker 02

  Yeah. The friend I was telling you about that had trapped on his leg in Iraq, I, we got a video of him and I grappling. And it, it's harder cause like I could put him in a headlock, but you know, my legs, I can't do much with that. But I have a video of me like tapping him out because he's like bright, he bright red.

• 1:33:07Speaker 02

  And it's like.

• 1:33:08Jocko Willink?

  Well, now a million people are going to want to see that video.

• 1:33:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:33:12Speaker 02

  It's a funny video.

• 1:33:14Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, that's the part you kind of miss is like the look of defeat on, you know, on his face or whatever, but.

• 1:33:19Jocko Willink?

  You have to imagine that part.

• 1:33:21Speaker 02

  Oh, I'm letting him know the rest of the day. And then I also sent the picture to everybody that we started with, so.

• 1:33:26Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:33:27Speaker 02

  It's out there.

• 1:33:28Speaker 01

  So you'll roll right into.

• 1:33:29Jocko Willink?

  That's the jujitsu. And plus, you're a good athlete. You got them tennis skills.

• 1:33:35Speaker 02

  My wife's gonna love that you said that.

• 1:33:39Speaker 01

  But yes, on the path, very good jujitsu. So when you're doing jujitsu on this path that we're all on, by the way, gonna need a gi. You're gonna want a gi if you do gi, which I recommend by the way. Origin gi, this is where you get your gis at. OriginMaine.com. Gi, rash guard, there's other stuff on there. But as far as gis go, that's where you get them. All made in America, by the way, Jaco.

• 1:34:01Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Yeah, that's the big thing. So little town up in Maine. And all the industry was taken away from this town and we're bringing it back. We got a factory up there. We got, I think we got, well, we got a bunch of people working in the factory and they're all craftsmen, craftsmen and craftswomen. That crafts people. Cause a lot of them are female. And you know, they're, they're making all this stuff. So it's great to see that. We're trying to make America make again.

• 1:34:36Speaker 01

  Did you just, is that just now?

• 1:34:38Jocko Willink?

  I, I shot that to Pete. My brother Pete, I was like, hey, we're gonna make America make again. Cause that's what we're trying to do, right? We're trying to make America make.

• 1:34:48Speaker 01

  Well, it's totally happening. I mean, we got what denim, American denim being made.

• 1:34:52Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:53Speaker 01

  Not the kind, that's the plans for the future, which are good, which is good, by the way.

• 1:34:57Jocko Willink?

  Future plans.

• 1:34:58Speaker 01

  But that's not a future plan. That's.

• 1:34:59Jocko Willink?

  We like future plans, but we really like actual, this is happening.

• 1:35:04Speaker 02

  Bringing denim back.

• 1:35:07Jocko Willink?

  Think about it. American jeans were made, were created in America, created here, invented here. And all of a sudden they're getting made overseas and these, and, and there's no Americans that are making them anymore. Well, there are now.

• 1:35:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:35:21Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, there are now in a factory in Farmington, Maine.

• 1:35:24Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:35:25Jocko Willink?

  That's what we're doing.

• 1:35:26Speaker 01

  Yes. OriginMaine.com. Go there. Gi, rash guards, denim, joggers.

• 1:35:33Speaker 01

  All kinds of cool stuff. Also supplements of course. Oh yeah. So I'm back. Oh man, I twisted my knee out doing jujitsu. Like the guy that popped out, popped back in. They do that. They're skinny. Yes, but they're loose too strangely. Strangely. Actually, my knees are so loose. Again with the knees, I know. But my knees are so loose that I um, I like sprained it one time. So I went to the orthopedic surgeon. You know, check it out. He was like, oh yeah, you blew your ACL. I was like, since I really did blow my ACL 10 to 12 to like 15 years earlier, my other side. I knew that my knees were loose because the guy, the doctor at that time was like, hey, you have real like, I don't know, long ligaments.

• 1:36:14Speaker 01

  I don't know. I know that sounds funny. I have long ligaments. I know, but that's what he said.

• 1:36:19Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:20Speaker 01

  Anyway, so I was like, hey.

• 1:36:21Jocko Willink?

  Are you sure he just didn't say you had two of these?

• 1:36:26Speaker 01

  Anyway, he says, um, yeah, you have loose like ligaments or whatever. Um, but this is how you know this one is blown out and this one is not. Cause when you pull it, the one that's not blown out, boom, it has a tight like cord at the end of it where it just stops. Anyway, so my current orthopedic surgeon, I told him that. He was like, okay, that's good that you told me that. So he tries the other one and like, he's like, oh yeah, they're the same. Like the, so it's probably not blown out, but hey, MRI anyway. MRI boom. Anyway, back to my story. So they pop out, right? That's their thing. When I twist them long, they'll pop out. Sometimes they'll pop out so much that it'll like, kind of make the cartilage swell on the outside. So it takes a few days so I, until I can bend them all away.

• 1:37:08Speaker 01

  And I'm pretty flexible, by the way. On the last, once I did that, double dose joint warfare and krill oil. Four days back in the game.

• 1:37:17Jocko Willink?

  That's, that's quick.

• 1:37:19Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:37:19Jocko Willink?

  That's quick. Plus we got the uh, milk.

• 1:37:22Speaker 01

  Yes, additional protein.

• 1:37:23Jocko Willink?

  Yep, additional protein. We got the discipline go and the discipline. And we got the warrior kid milk. I gotta get you some warrior kid milk for your kids, Matt.

• 1:37:33Speaker 02

  Toughen them up, huh?

• 1:37:34Jocko Willink?

  So what it is, is, is like, do you, do your kids like chocolate milk?

• 1:37:37Speaker 02

  They do.

• 1:37:38Jocko Willink?

  Do they like, do you ever have strawberry chocolate? Well, what is that? Strawberry milk? Do you ever have that one?

• 1:37:42Speaker 02

  My, my Leila, seven year old, she loves strawberry milk.

• 1:37:45Jocko Willink?

  Okay, so unfortunately.

• 1:37:48Jocko Willink?

  The milk, the strawberry milk that you have to give your kids is horrible for them, even though it tastes delicious. I guess, well, there is like some protein in it, right? There's some nutritional value because it does have some protein because there's milk in it.

• 1:37:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:37:59Jocko Willink?

  But you're also ladening them with sugar, which is not good for them.

• 1:38:03Speaker 01

  No, and addictive by the way.

• 1:38:05Jocko Willink?

  So, yeah, and it's addictive. So we solved this problem and we made Warrior Kid Molk. It tastes delicious. I'm telling you, it tastes like, I don't know if I'm supposed to say this, but it tastes like the Nestle's quick strawberry milk. You know what I'm talking about?

• 1:38:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:20Jocko Willink?

  It tastes like it's that good. I'm not kidding. Leila will be all over this stuff. She will be stoked.

• 1:38:28Speaker 01

  If they like strawberry.

• 1:38:28Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:29Speaker 01

  That's a really good.

• 1:38:30Jocko Willink?

  So we'll get you some of that and anyone else out there that wants to raise Warrior Kids, that doesn't want to give your kid a bunch of actual poison, sugar, actual poison.

• 1:38:41Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, and here's the thing about sugar too. And sure, I read a little thing about this, but I've noticed this. So you know how like, um, when you're there like little babies or whatever, you'll give them like, I don't know, all kinds of stuff. And let's say you give them formula, but the formula is kind of sweetened, right? So it's like it's sweetened, so they'll like it, so they'll eat it.

• 1:39:01Jocko Willink?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:39:02Speaker 01

  But if you don't give them any sweet stuff, even when they grow up, they'll like, they'll only eat normal stuff, like unsweetened stuff, you know? So I'll use myself as a small example when I was young. My parent, you know, the, you know, the like the fruit, not fruit punch, but like an orange juice concentrate. When you make orange juice, you put orange juice concentrate and then you get, um.

• 1:39:22Jocko Willink?

  Water.

• 1:39:22Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:39:23Jocko Willink?

  Yes.

• 1:39:23Speaker 01

  You put it all in.

• 1:39:27Speaker 01

  But how you do it is you go, um, it's like a 12 ounce concentrate.

• 1:39:31Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:31Speaker 01

  We'll say, we'll say, I think it's 12 ounces. Put the concentrate in and then you fill that same 12 ounce container that the concentrate was in with water four times.

• 1:39:40Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 1:39:40Speaker 01

  Right? Little did I know it was really three times. That's how much you're supposed to, that's the recommended, but my mom always did the four times.

• 1:39:47Jocko Willink?

  She was trying to save money too.

• 1:39:49Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'm sure that was part of it.

• 1:39:51Jocko Willink?

  Would have been in my family.

• 1:39:52Speaker 01

  Well, she was like, hey.

• 1:39:54Jocko Willink?

  We're throwing six in there.

• 1:39:56Speaker 01

  Nonetheless, I was used to it. I was totally used to it. So then later on, when I found out in high school, by the way, that it was really uh three, I was like, bro, I can't do the three. It's way too sweet.

• 1:40:05Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, your mom.

• 1:40:06Speaker 01

  See what I'm saying?

• 1:40:07Jocko Willink?

  Saved money and made you more healthy.

• 1:40:11Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 1:40:12Jocko Willink?

  Way to go.

• 1:40:13Speaker 02

  The right path.

• 1:40:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:40:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, see?

• 1:40:14Jocko Willink?

  Puts you on the right path, for sure.

• 1:40:16Speaker 01

  So think about that. And when you think about that, think about this. Jaco has a store. It's called Jaco's Store. So when you're on the path, you want to represent while being on the path. That's where you go. You can get your T-shirts. Discipline equals freedom. Good, good shirt. New one on there.

• 1:40:32Jocko Willink?

  New, the new good shirt.

• 1:40:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:40:34Jocko Willink?

  With less, less of my head on it.

• 1:40:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, it is weird, especially after a while when like, you know, you look in the mirror and it's like, good, yeah, I get the message, but you gotta see Jaco's face or whatever. And you know, sometimes you're not in the mood for that. You just get the other one.

• 1:40:48Jocko Willink?

  Do you sell your T-shirts anywhere, Matt?

• 1:40:50Speaker 02

  They're on my website.

• 1:40:51Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 1:40:51Speaker 02

  And we're, we're in the process of getting, right now, he's got the cotton shirts, but we're working on workout shirts as well. And, um, but yeah.

• 1:40:59Jocko Willink?

  And that's MatthewBradford.com?

• 1:41:01Speaker 02

  Matthew-Bradford.

• 1:41:03Jocko Willink?

  That's right. I was gonna, I was gonna correct myself. Matthew-Bradford.com.

• 1:41:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's, they're on there as well. And you can also go on there and request speaking engagements as well and book me. But, but yeah, the shirts are there and hashtag on the front of them.

• 1:41:21Jocko Willink?

  And the hashtag on the front is no vision, no legs, no problem?

• 1:41:24Speaker 02

  No legs, no vision, no problem.

• 1:41:25Jocko Willink?

  Oh, that's right. I had to prioritize.

• 1:41:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's different.

• 1:41:28Speaker 02

  It's, it's, it's hilarious hearing people just go after the hashtag. It's like, no sight, no legs, no vision. It's like, no eyes. It's like, first of all, I got one eye, at least. So with the prosthetic, but, but uh, yeah, it's, uh, it's, you know, that's something I come up with like a couple of years ago, like doing an event. And it's like, you know what? It just kind of stuck. And next thing you know, here we go. It's like, no legs, no vision, no problem.

• 1:41:52Speaker 01

  And those uh the workout shirts you're talking about, what do you um what like a dry fit kind of situation or what?

• 1:41:59Speaker 02

  Kind of like a dry fit, but then also the discipline equals freedom t-shirt, the what the material y'all use.

• 1:42:04Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:42:05Speaker 02

  I really like that material because I feel like when I work out, I get good numbers and I got the discipline equals freedom t-shirt on, so.

• 1:42:12Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:42:16Jocko Willink?

  Placebo.

• 1:42:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, you know, it's one of those things, right? It's like, what do you call it?

• 1:42:21Jocko Willink?

  Wait, let me ask you this. If the placebo is works, is it really a placebo? Because that's, you know, we could debate that later. I don't want to do it right now. Matt's got to make, I don't want to give Matt's whole vacation.

• 1:42:33Speaker 02

  We might get somebody else in here for that one.

• 1:42:36Jocko Willink?

  Echo is going to start telling the story about like Kool-Aid or something. Mixing it up, how much water goes in there?

• 1:42:42Speaker 01

  Anyway, maybe, maybe. Anyway, you want to represent on the path? Jocko store.com. If you see something, you like get something. How's this? How's this? Yes. Lightweight hoodies. Oh, they're in.

• 1:42:55Jocko Willink?

  Oh, I know.

• 1:42:55Speaker 01

  They're in, they're up, they're representative of quality. Little, little dash of fashion.

• 1:43:03Jocko Willink?

  All I'm gonna say is, see, Matt, you're probably down, so.

• 1:43:07Speaker 01

  He's wearing a lightweight.

• 1:43:08Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Living in Kentucky.

• 1:43:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:43:12Jocko Willink?

  There's more often you're gonna need that in Kentucky, but if you're in Maine, you're not gonna need that lightweight hoodie.

• 1:43:17Speaker 01

  What? Alright, well, I'm going to the immersion camp. I'm gonna bring one and I'm gonna wear one. How about that?

• 1:43:21Jocko Willink?

  Immersion camp.

• 1:43:22Speaker 01

  Immersion, immersion.

• 1:43:23Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, the immersion camp, the origin immersion camp. We haven't talked about that because it's almost sold out. Go to originmaine.com. I know, go to originmaine.com if you want to go to that uh jujitsu camp. If you want to come to that, Matt, let me know.

• 1:43:34Speaker 01

  Alright.

• 1:43:35Jocko Willink?

  It's in August.

• 1:43:36Speaker 01

  Alright.

• 1:43:37Jocko Willink?

  It's uh, it's fun. We do jujitsu 24 hours a day.

• 1:43:42Speaker 02

  And you did that last year as well, too.

• 1:43:43Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. We did it. We rocked it. It was a good time. Uh, Jocka White tee, you can get that as well. If you can't deadlift 8,000 pounds, you might want to order it quickly because if you drink Jocko White Tea, there's a 100% scientific guarantee that you'll be able to deadlift a minimum of 8,000 pounds. Some people are coming in higher than that, which is fine.

• 1:44:02Speaker 01

  Not a placebo.

• 1:44:04Jocko Willink?

  No, no, it's 100%.

• 1:44:08Jocko Willink?

  Subscribe. You can subscribe to this podcast. Because Echo thinks that you've listened to 171 podcasts and maybe you haven't hit subscribe yet.

• 1:44:16Speaker 01

  Well.

• 1:44:20Jocko Willink?

  No, Echo was proven right because then a bunch of people, when I made fun of you for that, a bunch of people rallied to your defense.

• 1:44:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, man.

• 1:44:26Jocko Willink?

  Have you noticed that there's a whole little group that will rally to your defense?

• 1:44:30Speaker 01

  Because I have a good point sometimes. Not all the time.

• 1:44:34Jocko Willink?

  Come on. Subscribe. Also, don't forget about the Warrior Kid Podcast. We just released a couple more episodes. Stories from Uncle Jake.

• 1:44:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, those stories are good, man.

• 1:44:44Jocko Willink?

  I love those stories. I'm going to publish a book with those stories, by the way.

• 1:44:47Speaker 01

  Good idea.

• 1:44:48Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I know. It's a big shocker. Don't forget the Warrior Kid soap from Irish Oaks Ranch. Actually, it's not for kids. It's soap made by a kid, but it's not for kids.

• 1:44:58Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 1:44:59Jocko Willink?

  It's for humans in general. That need to stay clean.

• 1:45:04Speaker 01

  Clean. Yes. Also, YouTube, if you are interested in the video version of this podcast, you want to see what Matt looks like.

• 1:45:12Jocko Willink?

  Oh, boy.

• 1:45:13Speaker 01

  Yeah. See what Jocko looks like if you don't know already.

• 1:45:17Jocko Willink?

  And yeah, I was explaining to Matt, I'll explain to everyone, as everyone knows, Echo does not sound like he looks like. You know, we all know that Echo sounds, just, I'm just going to say it. Echo sounds skinny and weak.

• 1:45:34Speaker 01

  Thank you for that.

• 1:45:35Jocko Willink?

  I don't mean that in a bad way. Hey, no offense, but Echo sounds, my kids always make fun of that. The, hey, no offense, but.

• 1:45:44Speaker 01

  Right. I'm going to say something very offensive.

• 1:45:47Jocko Willink?

  So I was explaining to Matt, I'm like, listen, bro, most people, when they see Echo and they meet him, they go, okay, cool. He's not really, they think to themselves, oh, he's not, he doesn't look like the way he sounds. So I had to say, Matt, I know you can't see Echo, but he doesn't look the way he sounds. Matt was like, okay, cool. Thanks. Because otherwise, no, he's, you know, he might've said something like, you know, maybe if you're trying to put on weight, like maybe Echo needs to.

• 1:46:13Speaker 01

  Oh, right.

• 1:46:13Jocko Willink?

  Just by the sound of your voice, it sounds like you maybe need to do some squats.

• 1:46:20Speaker 02

  When I was in the hospital, I had like a color every time I would make fun of somebody and they would be in the room and I didn't know that then they'd be like, blue, blue, blue. It's like getting my mind off of like what I was gonna say and like, oh, okay. Why are you saying a color right now?

• 1:46:35Jocko Willink?

  Oh, that's good.

• 1:46:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, that is good, actually.

• 1:46:38Jocko Willink?

  So, yeah, YouTube videos, there's also Echo's enhanced YouTube videos.

• 1:46:42Speaker 01

  I just put one up today.

• 1:46:43Jocko Willink?

  Yep.

• 1:46:43Speaker 01

  What up? Actually technically it'd be what, yesterday, Monday, Monday.

• 1:46:47Jocko Willink?

  Those are good. Uh, check out flipsidecanvas.com. That's a little company by my brother Dakota Meyer. He's making uh, cool things to hang on your wall.

• 1:47:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:47:01Jocko Willink?

  Of highest quality, made in America. He made one that says good. If that's a message that you, that resonates with you, can do that. He's got one that says discipline equals freedom. And by the way, I didn't really know this until the other day and I hate to even do this because Dakota might get mad at me, but he kinda takes requests.

• 1:47:25Jocko Willink?

  So if you heard something on this podcast and you said to yourself, dang, when, when Matt Bradford said this, when Matt Bradford said, just walk. I mean, can that not become?

• 1:47:36Speaker 01

  That can be.

• 1:47:37Jocko Willink?

  That's like something that you'd kinda wanna put on your wall, right?

• 1:47:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:47:39Jocko Willink?

  Just walk.

• 1:47:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:47:41Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, so if there's something like that, hit up Dakota on Twitter and say, hey Dakota, wouldn't it be cool if there was a, a canvas that said, just walk?

• 1:47:52Speaker 01

  He's gonna, he might have to put like a requests, like a section on his website or something like this.

• 1:47:59Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:59Speaker 01

  To filter that one out. Yeah, it's true. Yeah, there's some good stuff on there. I went through it and was like looking at it. Ah, this is good, man. And I'm not really an artsy guy as far as hanging art on the wall. You ever been in a hotel?

• 1:48:11Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:11Speaker 01

  It has like a picture of like a cabin, you know, and I see what they were doing. They were trying to make you feel cozy, but it's like, bro, this is a random picture of a cabin. On this thing and I don't know, but yeah, you get that, that good one that, that we have that he has. I was like, okay, I can kinda get down with this, even just the looks alone.

• 1:48:27Jocko Willink?

  For sure.

• 1:48:27Speaker 01

  And then you got another layer, the good and all that.

• 1:48:29Jocko Willink?

  Aesthetically pleasing.

• 1:48:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was good.

• 1:48:31Jocko Willink?

  And there's layers.

• 1:48:32Speaker 01

  And layers, exactly right.

• 1:48:33Jocko Willink?

  We haven't talked about layers in quite some time. You used the layer talk, didn't you?

• 1:48:37Speaker 01

  I think you did, but you know, hey man, it's probably my fault. Also. Psychological warfare. If you don't know what that is, it's an album with tracks of Jaco getting you, getting us, getting all of us through our moments of weakness, whatever they may be. So check out that one. That's on like an Amazon MP3 spot where you get MP3s. You understand iTunes, all that stuff. That's where you get it. It's really good. Also on it. So if you're expanding your home gym still, which we all are, that's an ongoing thing. I understand. Get your kettlebells, rings. What else? These maces and clubs really good for your creative type workouts. Unless you, unless you want to keep a boring workout like Jaco, I mean, that's, it's up to you.

• 1:49:22Jocko Willink?

  How creative are your workouts at? Do you like to do the same thing? Do you vary it up all the time?

• 1:49:27Speaker 02

  I got things I like going back to, like I love doing bench press and um, pull ups and dips, but I do like changing it up every now and then.

• 1:49:35Jocko Willink?

  But you were talking big time about the chains.

• 1:49:38Speaker 02

  I love chains.

• 1:49:39Jocko Willink?

  It's kind of, it's kind of like legit, isn't it?

• 1:49:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. And it's, it's kind of dope. Like looking to one, one like while you're working out with them. But what that does, it offers this kind of offsetting like weight to you and to what you're doing. It's, yeah, it's good.

• 1:49:53Speaker 02

  Especially when you change, when you do my pull ups too. Chains are hard. But yeah, I'd love, love making my workouts even harder than it really is.

• 1:50:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. That's all right. Use the weight. Use the weight like Rob Jones is. Boom. But yeah, that's where you go on it.com. Actually, you know what? Here, how's this? The perfect mix, morning mix or pre-workout mix, like before jujitsu. So on it has these, uh, it's their minerals, their electrolyte minerals. Mix that, two scoops of discipline, water. And if, you know, I put a five hour energy every once in a while. I want to, I want to like a boost or whatever, but all you need those minerals, the discipline, water, and oh, that's when you take like your krill oil and all that stuff. Boom. Perfect mix.

• 1:50:36Jocko Willink?

  Interesting.

• 1:50:37Speaker 01

  Yeah. Try that one.

• 1:50:39Jocko Willink?

  Hey, I, I, I got a bunch of books too. It's true. Mike and the Dragons. I got these books. I brought these up for your kids too. Uh, Matt. No. Mike and the Dragons, little kids book, lessons for everyone. Way the Warrior Kid and.

• 1:50:54Jocko Willink?

  Mark's mission, those are for like kids that want to be on the path and there's a new one coming out. It's called where there's a will, dot, dot, dot. That's what it's called. Discipline equals freedom field manual. If you want the audio of that, it's also on Amazon, Google Play, iTunes, MP3 platforms. Extreme Ownership, first book I wrote with my brother Leif Babin. Follow up to that is the dichotomy of leadership. We got Echelon Front, which is leadership consultancy and what we do is work with businesses to solve problems through leadership. Go to echelonfront.com for details. We got the muster coming up. May 23rd and 24th in Chicago, September 19th and 20th in Denver, and December 4th and 5th in Sydney. You came to the muster, Matt?

• 1:51:39Speaker 02

  I did last year in Washington DC.

• 1:51:41Jocko Willink?

  How'd you like it?

• 1:51:42Speaker 02

  I loved it. I loved going there and thank you and Leif for inviting me to join you all.

• 1:51:47Jocko Willink?

  It was awesome to have you there. Did you relate or did you recognize the leadership lessons?

• 1:51:55Speaker 02

  It's amazing, like, like, because you don't think about it too much, but you know, it's, it's different terminology, but it all means the same. And I love how like prioritize and execute and all this stuff, you know, going back to the military side of it and it kind of keeps you back in the fight a little bit. And so I do go back to work and like, all right, this is how you should lead, you know?

• 1:52:17Jocko Willink?

  You know, it's weird too. I, I was, I always think about leadership. It's always in my head and I always think about military stuff. And actually I was listening to you talk about getting blown up and you were talking about how you guys had good dispersion. And what that means is you're separate from each other. That way if something blows up or you get hit with a mortar or even machine gun fire, if everyone's too close together, then you get multiple wounded. So you have to, you have to have spacing. Now, obviously there's a dichotomy because if you have too much spacing, then you can't see each other, you can't help each other, you can't get to each other and you can't communicate with each other. So there's a dichotomy, but we used to use this real simple corrective. Statement and it's real simple. Don't bunch up.

• 1:53:00Jocko Willink?

  Don't bunch up, don't bunch up. Like if you see guys patrolling and they like one guy hits a little bit of an obstacle. And so it takes him a couple of extra seconds to get over. You fast forward that times eight guys and all of a sudden there's five guys sitting on this obstacle. They're trying to get through it. Guess where the enemy puts a landmine? They put it by that obstacle because they know you're going to get bunched up. You're in a gunfight and you see there's a little piece of cover or sometimes there's not even cover, but everyone just you get the instincts that if we're closer, we're we're safe.

• 1:53:31Speaker 01

  We're safe.

• 1:53:32Jocko Willink?

  And so I would, when I was running training, I always be saying, don't bunch up, don't bunch up. Now, how does that apply to leadership? I can, it hit me the other day as I was working out as a matter of fact. Don't bunch up on leadership. What does that mean? That means if you're leading Echo, I need to let you lead. I don't need to come in there and lead too. I don't need to get right up and bunch up on you. So when someone steps up and takes leadership, don't bunch up. Let him, give him some space, let him move and follow him and there's nothing wrong with that. So these things that I learned in the military, that Matt learned in the military, when you, when you look at them from a leadership perspective outside the military, they still apply. So if you want to learn about some of that stuff, come to the muster.

• 1:54:15Jocko Willink?

  Extreme ownership.com for details. EF online. Maybe you can't come to the muster. Maybe you're too busy. Maybe you don't have that much money, right? And maybe you can't get the time off. Maybe you can't travel that far. There's a bunch of reasons. And we know that. And we don't like that.

• 1:54:31Speaker 01

  We don't.

• 1:54:32Jocko Willink?

  So what, what we did is we made EF online. It is online, interactive leadership training. It's, it's me and the rest of the Echelon Front team showing you, teaching you about the principles of leadership that we learned in combat. And it's available right now. If you want to go check it out, efonline.com. And finally, we've got EF Overwatch, which is us connecting leaders from the military, from special operations, from combat aviation, and we're connecting them with companies in the civilian sector that need leaders. And this is one thing I've started to say is when

• 1:55:15Jocko Willink?

  people, people always ask, oh, I want to hire the right person. How do I do it? Hire the leader. You want to hire somebody that has experience as a leader. You just because someone is good at some technical thing, doesn't mean that they're going to be good at leadership. It doesn't work that way. Yeah. So you, it's better to hire somebody that has leadership capability rather than, and then you take that person that has leadership capability and you teach them what they need to know about the industry that you're in. So you could have somebody that was in the, the special forces and you say, oh, I'm going to hire him to run this communications sales group. He doesn't know anything about communication sales group. I'll tell you what, though, you give him like a month and a half digging in deep, he'll

• 1:55:58Jocko Willink?

  learn everything he's got to know and he's going to apply the leadership things that he knows from his military service into that position and he's going to win. He's going to make it happen.

• 1:56:09Speaker 01

  Yeah. And what I realized that it's not to be confused with boss, like when you say people with leadership experience, not boss, they won't roll in and be like, I'm the boss now since I was a special force, you know, it's not that.

• 1:56:23Jocko Willink?

  Cause they're humble. Cause we're only bringing people in through EF, through EF Overwatch. We're only bringing people in that understand the principles that we talk about in extreme ownership, which none of that has to do with being a boss.

• 1:56:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56:37Jocko Willink?

  I have a thing where I annoy my wife.

• 1:56:39Speaker 01

  I can understand. Yes.

• 1:56:42Jocko Willink?

  One of the most annoying things that I can do to her is I'll act like I'm not listening to anyone. No one can have any influence on me whatsoever. And so she had some conference thing that I was supposed to go to and she's sending me these, you know, she's sending me like, hey, we're supposed to be there at six o'clock. I'm like, I'm, I'll show up when I want to. And then, and then my little daughter, she always takes my wife's side because she hasn't quite figured out my sense of humor yet. And so my daughter was like, dad, you need to do what mom says. You need to go. And you know, she said six o'clock. And I was like, they're not the boss in me. So my little daughter was all mad at me for a little while and then she realized I was joking. Now she goes dad's not serious.

• 1:57:28Jocko Willink?

  Yeah dad's not serious, he's kidding. And now now I've gone too far where you know like clean your room. She's like, oh, you're just kidding.

• 1:57:34Speaker 01

  Joke's on you now, man.

• 1:57:36Jocko Willink?

  Joke's on you.

• 1:57:39Jocko Willink?

  So hey, if you want to hang around with us a little bit more, you can find all of us virtually on the interwebs. So Matt is, you already hear his website, Matthew dash or Matthew hyphen Bradford. I think that's right. Matthew. Oh, and there's also two Ts. Is that a thing? There are two ways to spell Matthew or am I just dumb?

• 1:58:03Jocko Willink?

  Does it always have two Ts?

• 1:58:04Speaker 01

  That's the common way.

• 1:58:07Jocko Willink?

  I won't, I won't emphasize it then. I thought I had to emphasize that there was two Ts in there. So Matthew hyphen Bradford dot com is where you can check out Matt for t-shirts, for booking him as a speaker, for seeing what he's up to. He's also Bionic Matt five, number five, Bionic, spelled wrong.

• 1:58:30Speaker 01

  With a K.

• 1:58:31Jocko Willink?

  With a K.

• 1:58:32Speaker 02

  I wanted to be young and hip when I created it.

• 1:58:35Jocko Willink?

  That screams young and hip.

• 1:58:38Speaker 02

  I'm getting up there in age. I gotta keep young, you know?

• 1:58:41Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. So and and Matt's posting, oh, if you, if you want to, if you're feeling sorry for yourself at all, check out and follow Bionic, spelled with a K, Matt, number five. What's the number five for?

• 1:58:54Speaker 02

  That was my football number. And if you want to think about it, I graduated high school in oh, five, so.

• 1:59:02Speaker 02

  And there's also, uh, my wife just created it here recently to a new Facebook public page. No legs, no vision, no problem too. We've been kind of posting stuff on. What we're doing and also kind of other, you know, amputees and stuff like that.

• 1:59:16Jocko Willink?

  And also, since you're young and hip, you also have your gram, your Instagram. Don't forget about your Instagram.

• 1:59:23Speaker 02

  Well, the funny thing with that is, Amanda was like, if you want to get your name out there, you need Instagram accounts. Like, I'm blind. I don't need to look at pictures. So she was like, she was like, okay, well, I'll run your Instagram account. So when people yell at me, and it's like, how come you don't follow me on Instagram? It's like, we need to go talk to my wife on that one.

• 1:59:38Jocko Willink?

  Here's what you need to do. The next 10 posts you put on Instagram, all black. Just all black and be like, hey, what up? Matt Bradford here. Can you see what I'm talking about? That's what I thought.

• 1:59:50Speaker 02

  Look at this beautiful view of the ocean right here.

• 1:59:53Jocko Willink?

  I'm in California. Doesn't it look nice? Hey, get off your ass and go do something. Oh, I'm back in Kentucky. Look, it's, it's the fall, it's the springtime. Here comes the green grass. This is what it looks like to me. Okay, now get a grip on reality. Get out there and live your lives. So you gotta do that. I'll talk to Amanda. Let's hopefully I can get her on board with the program.

• 2:00:12Speaker 02

  She'll be all for that.

• 2:00:13Jocko Willink?

  No, that'll be awesome. We'll make it go viral.

• 2:00:17Speaker 01

  You just learned that expression.

• 2:00:19Jocko Willink?

  Which part?

• 2:00:19Speaker 01

  The viral part.

• 2:00:20Jocko Willink?

  The viral, like, make it go viral. Okay, and then that for your, for your, for your Instagram page is M underscore Bradford underscore USMC.

• 2:00:35Speaker 02

  I'm glad you got that down.

• 2:00:36Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, oh, I wrote it down. Cause when I found it, I was like, cool, I'm gonna put out the word. And then I'm gonna tell you to post a bunch of black pictures. And then on that, and so the public, what is the public Facebook again?

• 2:00:49Speaker 02

  It's just no legs, no vision, no problem.

• 2:00:51Jocko Willink?

  Awesome. And of course, on all those platforms, Echo is at Echo Charles and I am at Jocko Willink. Echo, you got anything else?

• 2:01:03Speaker 01

  No, sir. Thank you, Matt. Great to meet you.

• 2:01:05Speaker 02

  Thank you so much, Echo. It's nice meeting you too.

• 2:01:08Jocko Willink?

  Any, any closing thoughts, Matt?

• 2:01:10Speaker 02

  I just really appreciate Jaco, you all having me on your podcast and, you know, the, the friendship that we started last May. You know, I look forward to it continuing in the future and stuff. And, you know, for everybody out there listening, you know, when, when life gets tough, just remember that one day at a time and you put your head down and close your eyes and the next day will, will be over. Or the, the old day will be over and the new day will be there. So just push on, better yourself. Go to the gym, work out, love life and enjoy everything that we have to offer here in the United States.

• 2:01:41Jocko Willink?

  Awesome, man, and uh, thanks to everyone that has served and is serving in our military. And I started off this podcast by reading the oath that you all swore to defend us. So, thank you all out there in our military for taking and keeping that oath. And obviously, Matt, thank you so much for taking that oath. For taking that oath twice, for keeping that oath despite everything that had been put in front of you. Thank you for your service and your sacrifice, and thanks for coming to talk to us. Also, police and law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics, EMTs, correctional officers, Border Patrol,

• 2:02:26Jocko Willink?

  first responders, and that includes dispatchers.

• 2:02:31Jocko Willink?

  That are staying calm on the phone, on the radio, to get people the help that they need when they need it. Thanks to all of you for protecting us as well. We owe you all a debt of gratitude. And to everyone else that's listening, I'm gonna take a quote from Matt Bradford's Twitter. And it says this, "To walk this earth blind is not the same as having no vision.

• 2:02:59Jocko Willink?

  To walk by faith, unchanged by the hand dealt, is to live life as a visionary and to love life as humans were meant. Seek, never settle. Inspire, never complain. Rise, never stay down.

• 2:03:22Jocko Willink?

  No legs, no vision, no problem."

• 2:03:27Jocko Willink?

  And let's face it, if Matt Bradford can do what he does, if he can keep pushing and keep driving and keep finding new missions and successfully executing those missions, if he can wake up every day and say, "No legs, no vision, no problem." If he can have the vision he has,

• 2:03:51Jocko Willink?

  and the heart that he has,

• 2:03:54Jocko Willink?

  then all of us can stop complaining and we can go get after it.

• 2:04:03Jocko Willink?

  And until next time, this is Matt and Echo and Jaco.

• 2:04:09Jocko Willink?

  Out.