Parents of Alleged J6 Pipe Bomber Say the Government Is Framing Their Son

Brian Cole Jr. has autism, no criminal record and no connection to J6. He’s in prison without bail for planting the Capitol Hill pipe bombs. His parents think he’s been framed. We agree.(00:00) The Arrest of Brian Cole Jr. (03:34) The FBI's Raid on Cole's House (15:38) The FBI Investigation and Strange Phone Number (19:36) When Did the Cole Family Find Out What Their Son Was Charged With? (21:16) Brian’s Morning Routine and Job at the Family Business (40:43) Why Doesn’t Trump’s J6 Pardon Apply to Brian? Paid partnerships with:Troomy Nootropics: Get 20% off with code TCN20 at Troomy.com/TuckerCozy Earth: Luxury shouldn't be out of reach. Get up to 20% off at https://cozyearth.com/TUCKER Cardiff: Get fast business funding without bank delays—apply in minutes with Cardiff and access up to $500,000 in same‑day funding at https://Cardiff.co/TUCKER American Financing: NMLS 182334, nmlsconsumeraccess.org. APR for rates in the 5s start at 6.327% for well qualified borrowers. Call 800-685-5696 for details about credit costs and terms. Visit http://www. AmericanFinancing.net/Tucker. TCN: Watch ‘The OKCBOMB Files’ only on TCN: https://watchtcn.co/okcbomb Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:34Tucker Carlson?

  Thank you all for doing this. I first heard about this case almost immediately from someone in the US government who called me and said, this is, this is the Netflix story that you don't think could actually be real, where the US government arrests someone for a grave crime, knowing that he didn't commit it. So I was gonna say upfront what I think and what informed people in the US government think. So I want to frame the conversation around that. Again, thank you. Let's start with Brian Cole, Sr. Where were you? How did you find out your son had been arrested?

• 1:07Speaker 02

  I was in a hotel in Alabama. I was traveling, working. And a DOJ officer, FBI agent, gave me a call. And he started asking, he was asking me a few questions. And he was informing me that, you know, they had picked up my son. So, you know, prior to that, it was about 6:00 AM in the morning. And I was looking at TV and looking at the news. And, you know, they were talking about they were making an arrest on the J6 pipe bomber. And maybe 30 minutes later, I get the phone call.

• 1:46Tucker Carlson?

  Did they say who it was?

• 1:48Speaker 02

  They didn't say who it was when I, the initial.

• 1:54Tucker Carlson?

  The report you were watching?

• 1:54Speaker 02

  Report that I was watching. They didn't say who it was. They said he was in the process of making an arrest. And then like 30 minutes later, I get a call.

• 2:03Tucker Carlson?

  Did you think, I wonder if that's my son?

• 2:04Speaker 02

  No, never in a million years. No, absolutely not. And they called and I was talking to him. And he stated that, you know, he was, I couldn't remember his name, but he was with the FBI. You know, they picked up my son. And, you know, I didn't know, didn't grasp it for a second because it was so early in the morning. And then, as he was talking to me, the news went on and I can see, you know, they mentioned the name. And when they mentioned the name, I said, man, you mean it's him? And you're on the phone telling me that the person they're talking about on TV is my son? And he was like, yes, you know what I mean? And he was like, they already reporting on the news?

• 2:49Speaker 02

  I said, yeah, it's all over the news right now. And then from there, wasn't even, 20 seconds later, I started getting phone calls from reporters. And that's how I found out.

• 3:01Tucker Carlson?

  What did you think?

• 3:03Speaker 02

  You know, in a situation like that, Tucker, man, it was so many things running through your mind because you're wondering what's going on. Like, you know, it's hard to explain. You don't, to wake up to something like that, 6:00 to 7:00 o'clock in the morning, and someone telling you that your son has just been picked up, he's this infamous person, you don't know what to think. You really don't. I didn't know what was going on. So the first thing I tried to do was try to get in contact with his mother. And we were all unsuccessful. And then my kids started calling. And because each one of them, they made contact with each one of them in person.

• 3:49Speaker 02

  And then that's when we went to the Ring Cam. And we saw what was going on. You know, we saw actually what was going on. And that's why we knew we couldn't get in contact with her. Because, you know, they raided the house and took her out the house.

• 4:09Tucker Carlson?

  And you were at home when the raid began?

• 4:11Speaker 03

  Yes, my grandson and I.

• 4:13Tucker Carlson?

  Your grandson. Tell us what happened.

• 4:16Speaker 03

  So I woke up, I guess around 8:00. And around 8:15 or so, I heard a siren. So I'm thinking, you know, my elderly neighbor across the street, that something was wrong. So I'm like, oh, while I, you know, I hope Grams is okay.

• 4:32Tucker Carlson?

  Can I say for people who don't know, since I do know, you live in a cul-de-sac in a suburban neighborhood?

• 4:37Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 4:38Tucker Carlson?

  You don't have a lot of sirens in your neighborhood?

• 4:39Speaker 03

  No, and I'm like, wow, you know, because she's elderly. And next thing you hear is, come out with your hands up. This is the FBI. I get up out of the bed and I go look out my window. And the cul-de-sac is filled. You have three different trucks with, I don't know if they're rams or machine guns pointing towards my house. You have cars in the cul-de-sac. You have gunmen with rifle, all behind the trucks and behind the trees.

• 5:20Tucker Carlson?

  With rifle? You could see rifles?

• 5:23Speaker 03

  Facing the house. So I get dressed. I go wake my grandson up and tell him the FBI is outside.

• 5:30Tucker Carlson?

  Sorry to laugh.

• 5:31Speaker 03

  You gotta get dressed and come on outside. I said, don't take forever. So I get up and I go outside. And they tell me to come towards them. And soon as I got to them, they took my phone and they handcuffed me and put me in the truck. And then my grandson came out a few minutes later.

• 5:53Tucker Carlson?

  They handcuffed you?

• 5:54Speaker 03

  Yes, they handcuffed me and put me in a truck. My grandson came out a few minutes later. They grabbed his phone from him, handcuffed him, and put him in a truck.

• 6:02Tucker Carlson?

  How old is your grandson?

• 6:03Speaker 03

  My grandson is 17.

• 6:04Speaker 02

  He was 16 then, though. He was 16.

• 6:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, he was about to turn 17 because he turned 17 on the 14th. And I told them, you know, be careful because my son is still in the house. Because I hadn't gotten to his room to tell him. And so, you know, and we're, you know, just sitting there, I'm like, you know, what's happening? What's going on? I don't.

• 6:27Tucker Carlson?

  Did they tell you why they were handcuffing you?

• 6:28Speaker 03

  Not at the beginning, no. They just said, we'll tell you in a few.

• 6:32Tucker Carlson?

  So you wake up from a dead sleep to sirens, you look out the window, and there are men with rifles aiming at your house.

• 6:37Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 6:38Tucker Carlson?

  Come out with your hands up. You have no idea what's going on?

• 6:41Speaker 03

  None, none.

• 6:44Tucker Carlson?

  And no one explains to you why they're handcuffing you and putting you in the back of a car?

• 6:47Speaker 03

  No. And again, you know, you have to realize because of what we do for a living, you know, there's a lot on the line if we don't do what we're supposed to do.

• 6:58Tucker Carlson?

  So I should say that you all run a family business with a big extended family, including your son Brian Cole, Jr., who worked there.

• 7:05Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 7:06Tucker Carlson?

  The bail bonds business. You've had it for a long time, kind of multi-generational. And it's a pretty big business, I think.

• 7:13Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 7:15Tucker Carlson?

  And you're licensed in order to run that business, including to carry firearms because it's bail bonds, right? It's like sort of a subset of law enforcement.

• 7:22Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 7:22Tucker Carlson?

  And so I just want to give context for people who don't know.

• 7:26Speaker 03

  No, you explain it well.

• 7:27Tucker Carlson?

  And so you're handcuffed in the back of a car. Then you see your grandson handcuffed, teenage grandson. What are you thinking?

• 7:38Speaker 03

  What the hell? Can I say hell?

• 7:41Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, yes, ma'am.

• 7:42Speaker 03

  So I'm like, what the hell? You know, what is all of this? You know, because, you know, we are a nice, boring family. So I don't understand where all this is coming from. And, you know, so they come and then they just tell me, some people are gonna come talk to you. I'm like, what the world? And I'm not paying attention at the time this passing that Brian hasn't, you know, joined us. And so, you know, and then I start, as a grandmother would, start getting on my grandson like, you're supposed to be in school. So I'm paying attention, fussing at him.

• 8:23Tucker Carlson?

  I'm sorry to laugh. This is so crazy.

• 8:25Speaker 03

  And then all of a sudden, he said, they cleared the house. And he said, okay, we're gonna go in and they're gonna tell you. But your son Brian has been arrested as the J6 bomber.

• 8:37Speaker 03

  And you go blank because you hear what they're saying.

• 8:44Speaker 03

  But because it's Brian, you like, no, you most definitely got the wrong person. This cannot, you know, this is not Pharrell. And he was like, yeah, um, we arrested him and he is downstairs downtown at headquarters already. Now, mind you, he, we, and as he said, we went back and looked at the ring camera. He left the house about six something, almost seven o'clock. So they had already had him by time they did all this fanfare.

• 9:15Tucker Carlson?

  Wait, if they'd already arrested your son, who they claim was a suspect in this attempted bombing, why were they pointing rifles at you and handcuffing you? Were you ever charged with a crime?

• 9:27Speaker 03

  No, no. And that was one of their questions. They continuously asked us, you know, did we know anything about this? Did we know anything about this? Well, no.

• 9:38Speaker 03

  You know, no matter how many times we told them no, they would, you know, ask the questions and come back to that same question.

• 9:43Tucker Carlson?

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• 11:08Tucker Carlson?

  Is that part, so you all work, obviously with law enforcement and the, the legal system every day. That's your job. Is arresting the fam, is handcuffing the family members typically part of an arrest?

• 11:19Speaker 03

  Not for us.

• 11:20Speaker 02

  Not for us, not at all.

• 11:21Speaker 03

  No.

• 11:21Speaker 02

  No.

• 11:22Tucker Carlson?

  Is that, does that happen in America? Like, why would you handcuff the family members?

• 11:26Speaker 03

  I know, right?

• 11:28Speaker 02

  I have no idea.

• 11:29Speaker 03

  At all. Cause I mean, again, we're not used to this. We're not on that side to, to have a, a, a clear understanding of everything that they do. But I was calm because I wanted to make sure my grandson stayed calm.

• 11:47Speaker 03

  And, and then once they got us in the house, then they, they unhandcuffed us and.

• 11:54Tucker Carlson?

  Do they apologize for handcuffing you?

• 11:55Speaker 03

  No, no.

• 11:57Tucker Carlson?

  They handcuff a grandmother who's not been charged with anything and they don't apologize?

• 12:02Speaker 03

  No.

• 12:02Speaker 02

  And, and, and, and the grandson.

• 12:07Tucker Carlson?

  Um, okay. Then what happened?

• 12:11Speaker 03

  Um, so I don't know how long, um, they discussed, then it just seemed like this army of people started coming through the door. I mean, they were.

• 12:23Tucker Carlson?

  Of your home?

• 12:23Speaker 03

  Yes, they were like all over. Um, so my grandson and I, they had us in the living room because they set up in the dining room to use the table in the dining room, um, to do their reporting or whatever they, they do. Um, and so, um, there were two agents speaking to my grandson and I, um, in the living room. Um, and, um, I was like, you know, can we get him to school? He need, he needs to go to school because he wanted to play in his basketball game. And I wanted to make sure, although this is a crazy life turning ordeal, I wanted to try to keep it as normal as possible for him. Um, and so they, they were fine with that.

• 13:07Speaker 03

  You know, they took him upstairs, let him get dressed. Um, and then they, um, took him to school. Now, from my understanding, later on, they talked to him in the car. I don't know what, how they questioned him or what they said, but they talked to him in the car. Even though before we got out of the, the truck, I asked one of the SWAT members, don't, don't talk to my grandson, don't ask him any questions. If you have anything to say, you ask me.

• 13:41Speaker 03

  Um, so outside of that, I don't know what they discussed with him. You know, and of course teenage, teenagers are always vague, you know? He just, he just asked me, you know, did I know anything about this? Um, and did I know that, um, anything that Brian did and a phone number? That's about it. But, you know, they made sure that he got to school. They followed him to make sure nobody was following him to school. Um, and that was, that was it.

• 14:10Speaker 02

  Yeah. And, and this phone number, I mean, they asked every single one of us about this specific phone number for some reason.

• 14:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:17Speaker 02

  You know, even, even over the phone. Um, and, and, and, and I'm not going to say my dealings with the, the agent that I, that called me very professional. He was very polite on the phone. Very professional, very polite. You know, he asked me about a phone number. Asked me to key the phone number in my phone and then it did it come up with anything and, you know, told him no. But I don't know what, whatever this phone number, they were all, they were very interested in that one particular phone number for some reason. And, you know, they didn't tell us why.

• 14:49Tucker Carlson?

  They asked both of you about this one specific phone number?

• 14:51Speaker 03

  All of us, all of us. My kids said the same thing.

• 14:54Speaker 02

  Everybody.

• 14:54Tucker Carlson?

  And did anyone have the phone number in his or her phone?

• 14:57Speaker 03

  No.

• 14:57Speaker 02

  No.

• 14:59Speaker 03

  No.

• 15:00Tucker Carlson?

  Huh. Do you have any idea what that was about?

• 15:02Speaker 03

  No.

• 15:03Speaker 02

  No.

• 15:05Tucker Carlson?

  Um, so what happened to your son? I mean, when, when, when did you find out exactly what the charges were and where he was?

• 15:13Speaker 03

  So we didn't find out exactly where he was or what the charges were until, um, our attorney.

• 15:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, what happened? First thing, you know, of course, the first thing we wanted to do is once I, you know, once we realized the magnitude of what was going on in the county, we started comprehending and I notified my attorney. I dealt with John Sherman for, for many, many years. Um, so I got in contact with him and he, he, you know, I was asked, I was saying, hey, man,

• 15:46Speaker 02

  have you heard, have you heard what's going on? And he was like, no, I'm, I'm in New York. And I was like, okay, uh, well, you know, my son, they just, they just arrested and said that he was the, you know, alleged J six pipe bomber and they arrested him. I need, I need you. And then John said, uh, you know, okay, I'm, I'm on my way. So he left New York because I wanted to have someone in court with Brian the next morning. You know, for, for the arraignment. And, uh, the next morning John came in and met, you know, met with him and, and stood as his counsel um, for the arraignment that next morning. And then that, that's the only time we got to actually see him since that, the day before,

• 16:30Speaker 02

  was that next morning when he went to the arraignment. We weren't able to speak to him, wasn't able to talk to him or anything.

• 16:37Speaker 02

  Then after court,

• 16:41Speaker 02

  we found out later that evening that he was in a, he was at, you know, where, where he was located at.

• 16:48Speaker 03

  No.

• 16:48Speaker 02

  I don't want to.

• 16:49Speaker 03

  No, we didn't find out. Um, we, we thought that he was still downtown. We didn't find out until after the weekend because we didn't know where he was on Friday. We didn't know when, where he was on Saturday. Um, and John kept, John kept reaching out to the US attorney to find out where he was. And he kept saying he didn't know that he was going to try to find out for us. Um, and we didn't find out until like Monday evening, I think it was. And, um, once we found out, I asked, I, I asked Brian to call. And I asked one of our other agents, bonding agents to verify if this is where he is. And he did.

• 17:31Speaker 03

  And Brian said, well, I know you want to, you, you want to hear it for yourself, but he's there. And I did, and that satisfied me. And the next day, you know, we were trying to figure out how to see him because we hadn't seen him nor talked to him.

• 17:46Tucker Carlson?

  So he basically, he gets up early. Did he get up early a lot?

• 17:50Speaker 03

  Yes, yes.

• 17:50Speaker 02

  Every, every.

• 17:51Speaker 03

  Every morning.

• 17:51Speaker 02

  Every morning he gets up.

• 17:53Tucker Carlson?

  Why did he get up early?

• 17:54Speaker 03

  So it started because he had a, he had a dog. He had a little Chihuahua. So he got up every morning to walk his dog and then he'll walk to 711. And then he'll walk his dog again and he'll go to work.

• 18:06Tucker Carlson?

  What, what did he do at 711?

• 18:09Speaker 03

  Brian just likes to walk. So that gave him a destination to walk to. So he would go, he would get his soda or water or bottle of water. Um, he likes their pizza and their Chiquitos.

• 18:20Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, who doesn't?

• 18:21Speaker 03

  I know, you know?

• 18:22Tucker Carlson?

  I'm with you, baby.

• 18:23Speaker 03

  Snacks and back home, you know?

• 18:26Tucker Carlson?

  So he was taking his morning walk to 711?

• 18:29Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 18:29Tucker Carlson?

  With his little dog to get his water and pizza?

• 18:32Speaker 03

  Well, by now, by that time, we had to put the dog to sleep.

• 18:36Tucker Carlson?

  Okay.

• 18:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, about a month earlier.

• 18:38Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, gosh.

• 18:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:39Speaker 02

  But that was his routine for years, every day. Get up in the morning, walk the dog, go up to the 711, get his pizza or whatever he was going to get his drink, come back home. Every day, that was his, that was his routine every day.

• 18:54Tucker Carlson?

  And then he went to work and he worked at your family business?

• 18:57Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 18:58Tucker Carlson?

  For how long?

• 19:00Speaker 02

  Since he was about 15.

• 19:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, he was a teenager.

• 19:03Speaker 02

  Since he was about 15, he would, you know, work after school sometime, you know, when he was younger.

• 19:08Speaker 03

  Especially the summer.

• 19:09Speaker 02

  In the summer times, they all worked there at the summertime, worked, worked there during the summer and until he was an adult.

• 19:16Tucker Carlson?

  And now he's 31.

• 19:17Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 19:17Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 19:18Tucker Carlson?

  And he's worked for the family business the whole.

• 19:19Speaker 02

  The whole entire time and, and went to work every day, five days a week, the whole entire time.

• 19:26Speaker 03

  He's the only kid that didn't take vacation or sick time.

• 19:30Tucker Carlson?

  Uh, it's making me emotional. Why frame this kid?

• 19:34Speaker 03

  You know.

• 19:35Tucker Carlson?

  So, excuse me.

• 19:35Speaker 03

  It's crazy.

• 19:36Tucker Carlson?

  Well, it's, it, the more you know, um, we've been, we just have been talking all morning. So I, I know a lot that I hope will come out, but it's like, it's one of the most shocking stories. I've certainly in all these years, met a lot of people who claimed that they had a relative who was framed for a crime or whatever. I've never believed it more fervently than I do in this case because it's just.

• 19:56Speaker 03

  Cause it's true, you, you know?

• 19:58Tucker Carlson?

  It clearly is true. So tell us about, um, and let me just say, this is a man with no criminal record at all.

• 20:05Speaker 02

  At all.

• 20:05Tucker Carlson?

  No disciplinary record in school.

• 20:07Speaker 02

  At all.

• 20:08Tucker Carlson?

  No social media.

• 20:10Speaker 03

  No.

• 20:10Speaker 02

  At all.

• 20:12Tucker Carlson?

  And so they're telling us that this guy who's zero record of any run ins with the law or school authorities and no history of like posting extremism or whatever, set bombs in front of the two political party headquarters for reasons, whatever. The whole thing is crazy, but tell us who he was. What's he like? How would you describe your son and namesake?

• 20:32Speaker 02

  Really, really good kid, good guy. I can't call him a kid because he's a, he's a man now. Really good guy. Never caused any, any trouble. Um, very, very well respected. Respect every, he, he respect everyone.

• 20:51Speaker 02

  Always helpful. You know, um, just, just a general, generally a really good guy.

• 20:59Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 21:00Speaker 02

  Never caused us an issue. I mean, his whole, his whole life never caused us an issue at all. You know, so, you know, you have kids, you know, I've had, my other kids caused me some problems.

• 21:11Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 21:12Speaker 02

  But the one, the one that don't cause, didn't cause us anything is the, is, is going through all of this and don't, we don't understand, but he, he's, he's a really good kid. Um,

• 21:24Speaker 02

  I, it is, you won't find anybody, anybody that would say something negative about him.

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• 24:21Tucker Carlson?

  Us. If he's waking up at six to walk his little dog to 7-Eleven every single morning and then go to work at the family business. You know, it kind of says a lot. So you have described him as having autism?

• 24:33Speaker 03

  Yes. So for me, you know, we, we had Brian young, you know, I, I was 20.

• 24:42Speaker 03

  And he was always quiet, you know, he never had any issues, you know, how children want to be entertained. Well, Brian never really wanted to be entertained. As long as he ate and his diaper was clean, there was no problems with Brian. I, you know, my cousin, um, girlfriend used to babysit him and she was like, I'll babysit him anytime you want. Cause he really truly was no problem. He had no problem with entertaining himself.

• 25:11Speaker 03

  But again, I was young, didn't really pay attention to that. I just thought he was a good kid. Um, and I got a job at a pediatrician's office in Fairfax. And, um, as he grew, you know, a lot of things that I saw, a lot of parents bring their kids in with autisms and tics and stuff like that. I realized that a lot of those tendencies he had.

• 25:37Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 25:39Speaker 03

  And

• 25:42Speaker 03

  I wasn't sure, um, but when he became at an age where he can make more decisions of his own and doesn't have to, you know, do everything we say or everything we want, he never did. And then the, the headphones really kind of showed me, um, and then his speech. Um, and stuff like that and, and always compliant, always compliant. And there were other, you know, little things.

• 26:16Speaker 03

  And so.

• 26:17Tucker Carlson?

  But a sweet tempered kid?

• 26:18Speaker 03

  Always.

• 26:19Speaker 02

  Oh, and, and people got to understand where we come from, where we, where we grew up at in, in, in, in the Washington DC area, southeast side of Washington DC. You know, and we were young when we had our kids. We, we, we didn't, autism wasn't this big focal thing focused like it is today. You know, we didn't know about autism.

• 26:42Tucker Carlson?

  I'm the same generation. I know.

• 26:43Speaker 02

  We, we, you know.

• 26:44Tucker Carlson?

  Never heard of it.

• 26:45Speaker 02

  Autism, we never even heard of autism. So to see a kid like that, we thought it was normal because we were, we were with him every day.

• 26:56Tucker Carlson?

  Of course.

• 26:58Speaker 02

  We, we weren't educated on autism. We knew nothing about autism at the time. It now hindsight, looking back now from what we know and what we've learned now about autism. The signs were definitely there.

• 27:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:11Speaker 02

  But during that, during the, the nineties and the early 2000s, you know, autism wasn't, wasn't in the forefront of anything, you know, a lot of people didn't know too much about.

• 27:21Tucker Carlson?

  No.

• 27:21Speaker 02

  Autism, especially in our communities.

• 27:23Tucker Carlson?

  Of course.

• 27:24Speaker 02

  You know, and, and, and, and

• 27:27Speaker 02

  you know, that, I just wanted to say that because you, you have a lot of people go, well, they should have known something. We didn't know, you know, we, we, you know, we weren't educated on that, doing that.

• 27:38Tucker Carlson?

  So the reason I, I wanted you to explain that part of Brian's personality and life is because it may be relevant to this case. And I'm not going to ask you to comment on this because I think it probably you can't because there's a trial.

• 27:51Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 27:51Tucker Carlson?

  But the government has said that he confessed to this crime and it is widely known, universally known. And there have been studies that show it, that prove it, that people with autism are much more likely to falsely confess to crimes they did not commit because.

• 28:10Tucker Carlson?

  Autistic people sometimes have a great deal of emotional intensity. They are pleasers. They just want it to stop. They will admit, and studies have shown this, to anything if you push them hard enough. And so the fact that I'm reading in the paper that an autistic man confessed to a crime means a lot less than if you confessed to a crime or I confessed to a crime.

• 28:31Speaker 03

  Right.

• 28:31Tucker Carlson?

  It's like, it's, this is a well-known thing.

• 28:33Speaker 03

  Right.

• 28:34Tucker Carlson?

  I'm not asking you to comment on this because I don't think you probably should, but I just want our viewers to understand that. Anyone familiar with this stuff is like, oh, they picked up an autistic kid and he confessed, confessed.

• 28:43Speaker 03

  Right.

• 28:45Tucker Carlson?

  So was he political?

• 28:48Speaker 02

  Not to my knowledge. Not to my knowledge, not to anything that we've seen. No, there's, there was no, uh, no. And I played this back in my head.

• 29:00Speaker 02

  I mean, no, he never talked politics, none of that. I don't, we don't understand. You know, how do they?

• 29:09Tucker Carlson?

  He lives at home and you work with him every day. So.

• 29:11Speaker 03

  Right.

• 29:12Tucker Carlson?

  So if he were absorbed in some political drama, you probably would have heard about it.

• 29:17Speaker 02

  We would have known.

• 29:18Speaker 03

  Right, you know, and don't get me wrong, you know, we talked about current events.

• 29:22Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 29:22Speaker 03

  You know, when we did have conversations about whatever, you know, but he, you know, wouldn't force away one way or another in terms of political stances, you know? We're more so was right, was wrong.

• 29:37Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 29:38Speaker 03

  You know, um, so I just, I just don't understand, you know, where all of this is coming from. Why are they, you know? What, how, how?

• 29:54Tucker Carlson?

  So the government alleges, I, I don't know, I hope to ask you this question. I hope to understand what exactly the reasoning is behind.

• 30:02Speaker 03

  Right.

• 30:02Tucker Carlson?

  His arrest and continued incarceration. So the government said immediately, like within a day, that the pipe bombs were planted in front of the RNC and the DNC on Capitol Hill. They didn't go off and it turns out they weren't actually real bombs. We now know. They were inert, but that they were planted as a diversion to get law enforcement to go up to Capitol Hill as the Capitol was being stormed by the, what they described as insurrectionists. So the Capitol Hill pipe bombings, the government told us this many, many times, were directly connected to what happened at the Capitol that day.

• 30:36Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 30:37Tucker Carlson?

  Correct?

• 30:37Speaker 03

  Yes, yes.

• 30:38Tucker Carlson?

  Right. So a couple of questions for you. Was your son at the January 6th?

• 30:43Speaker 02

  No.

• 30:44Tucker Carlson?

  Event?

• 30:44Speaker 03

  No.

• 30:45Tucker Carlson?

  Is the government alleging he was there?

• 30:46Speaker 03

  No, not to my knowledge.

• 30:49Tucker Carlson?

  Did he have any contact that you know of? And is the government alleging that he had contact with any of the perpetrators of January 6th?

• 30:56Speaker 03

  Not to my knowledge.

• 30:57Tucker Carlson?

  Okay. He had not posted on social media, support?

• 31:01Speaker 02

  No, he don't even have a social media account, no.

• 31:04Speaker 03

  No.

• 31:05Tucker Carlson?

  Are you aware of any connection at all between your son and what happened at the Capitol building on January 6th?

• 31:13Speaker 02

  No.

• 31:13Speaker 03

  No.

• 31:14Tucker Carlson?

  Has the government shown you any connection between your son and what happened that day?

• 31:19Speaker 02

  No, I haven't seen anything.

• 31:21Speaker 03

  No.

• 31:23Tucker Carlson?

  So when they told you your son was the Capitol Hill, the J6 pipe bomber, did part of your brain say, oh yeah, I remember him ranting in the kitchen or cleaning his firearms at the kitchen table, talking about storming the Capitol?

• 31:36Speaker 03

  No. The only way I, you know, so, I mean, that was five years ago. I, I put that out of my mind. I didn't follow it, so I don't know, you know? All I saw was the images that the media provided of them storming the Capitol, you know? And that was it for, for me.

• 31:55Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 31:55Speaker 03

  Um, I didn't follow it or anything, so I didn't realize what they were talking about until they showed me a still image. I'm like, oh, I remember seeing that video.

• 32:07Tucker Carlson?

  When they, when the FBI?

• 32:09Speaker 03

  Yes. Other than that, I.

• 32:11Tucker Carlson?

  What was in the image?

• 32:12Speaker 03

  It was just the, the gray hooded person.

• 32:15Tucker Carlson?

  The gray hooded person who's security cameras on Capitol Hill. Uh, picked up planting the bombs.

• 32:21Speaker 03

  Right.

• 32:22Tucker Carlson?

  In front of those two buildings.

• 32:23Speaker 03

  That's it.

• 32:24Tucker Carlson?

  And there, then they showed you these images to tell you that this was your son, Brian?

• 32:28Speaker 03

  Yes. They asked me, does, does that look like Brian? Does that look like, um, his sweater? I'm like, I got a gray sweater. Who doesn't have a gray sweater? No, that, I can't say that that's his sweater or, or not. Like, that's crazy. What?

• 32:48Speaker 03

  I, I can't answer that question, you know? It just, it was, they were just trying to find something to tie him.

• 32:58Tucker Carlson?

  Did they find any bomb-making materials in your home?

• 33:01Speaker 03

  I don't know what they found. Um, for me, that day was so.

• 33:13Speaker 03

  It just blew me out the water. So whatever they gave me, I immediately gave to the attorney. I really didn't look because I'm like, where is he? My children are worried about me, you know? And, and then of course, then the media comes and we just wanted to leave.

• 33:28Tucker Carlson?

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• 34:11Tucker Carlson?

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• 34:44Speaker 00

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• 35:13Speaker 06

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• 35:58Speaker 06

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• 36:14Tucker Carlson?

  But I'm, I'm just, I guess I'm just confused as to the, the core of any crime is motive.

• 36:20Speaker 03

  Right.

• 36:20Tucker Carlson?

  Why did someone do this?

• 36:21Speaker 03

  Right.

• 36:22Tucker Carlson?

  And the government, I think, is under the obligation to provide a coherent motive to explain why we arrested this person and are still holding him in jail.

• 36:30Speaker 03

  I haven't heard one.

• 36:31Tucker Carlson?

  What, you haven't?

• 36:32Speaker 03

  No.

• 36:33Speaker 02

  Haven't heard no motives at all, none.

• 36:36Tucker Carlson?

  Can you think of a motive?

• 36:37Speaker 02

  No.

• 36:37Speaker 03

  No. Not at all.

• 36:40Tucker Carlson?

  Do you think that if your son, since he does live at home and works at the family business and is autistic and gets up at 6:00 AM to walk his dog to 7-Eleven, do you think if he was planning a bombing that you might have noticed?

• 36:54Speaker 03

  I would think so.

• 36:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:56Speaker 03

  Like his room was right down the hall from my room. And of course I'm a nosy mom. And because I know, you know, I, I like to go in there and mess with Brian because, you know, he, he, he, he doesn't talk a lot.

• 37:14Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 37:14Speaker 03

  And I like to just go and mess with him and try to force him to talk and, yeah. And then he'll leave out his room, so I would leave out his room. But, you know, I know the tactic, so I wait till he comes back and, you know, he's surprised, tell him like, you still here? Yeah, because I knew you were trying to shut me up. You know, so it's not, you know, it's, it's not like something he can hide. You know, um, so I, I don't know where all this is coming from. I really don't.

• 37:46Tucker Carlson?

  But you don't understand what the government is thinking? So like, the Capitol Hill pipe bombs were connected to the January 6th demonstration slash riot, what they call an insurrection. We can just say that because the government has told us that for five years. So you don't see honestly, any connection at all between your son and the January 6th protests?

• 38:11Speaker 03

  No.

• 38:12Speaker 02

  No.

• 38:15Tucker Carlson?

  The government must be drawing some connection.

• 38:19Speaker 03

  And I would like to know, and again, we probably won't really know until trial.

• 38:24Tucker Carlson?

  When is trial?

• 38:25Speaker 03

  February 16th, 27.

• 38:29Speaker 03

  My baby would have been arrested for, in jail for a year.

• 38:33Speaker 02

  A year and two months.

• 38:34Speaker 03

  That's it's.

• 38:35Tucker Carlson?

  Why, um, okay, so this gets to a question that you can answer since you're literally in the bail bonds business. And ironically, your son is being held without bond.

• 38:43Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 38:44Tucker Carlson?

  But here's someone who has no criminal record of any kind, no record of misbehavior of any kind. But he's being held without bond when he has a family and a family home and a family business. And like, he can go back and be with people, but he's being held without bond because why?

• 39:05Speaker 02

  They.

• 39:06Speaker 03

  They said that their only excuse was, and it's really crazy because they agree he's not a risk. He's not, he's not, he's not a risk.

• 39:16Speaker 02

  A flight risk.

• 39:17Speaker 03

  Well, he's not a risk to, to the people. He's not a risk of fleeing anywhere. And that, um, he's never been arrested. But because of the alleged charges that they brought against him, they, he shouldn't be left out, um, released. Now, mind you, you know, we agreed, and my mother-in-law said, well, he can come to my house. Since they feel, because they claim that, you know, things were done in my house. Well, he can come stay in my house. I live in a gated community. We can do ankle monitor. We can do, um, house arrest if you want. You can come by and visit whenever you choose.

• 40:02Speaker 03

  He can do weekly check-ins, nothing. Only because of the charges that they allege that they.

• 40:08Tucker Carlson?

  How long have you been in the bail bonds business?

• 40:11Speaker 02

  31 years.

• 40:13Tucker Carlson?

  So again, I can't overstate how much perspective you have in this. How weird is this?

• 40:17Speaker 02

  Let me say this. If this was a

• 40:23Speaker 02

  case in another state.

• 40:24Tucker Carlson?

  Yep.

• 40:29Speaker 02

  Any other case even similar to this, but in another state, another area, he would have been out of jail by now. He'd have been fighting this from home.

• 40:43Speaker 02

  I don't, I don't, I don't know if it had anything to do with, if it had anything to do with his, uh, race. I don't know. I don't want to put that out there.

• 40:54Speaker 02

  Because, uh, just very recently, um, right after, actually right after his case, a county over Loudoun County in, in Virginia, similar situation happened with some white kids.

• 41:11Speaker 02

  And they're, they're, they're home. Similar situation, you know, um,

• 41:20Speaker 02

  I don't know why here, I don't.

• 41:22Tucker Carlson?

  Well, if you think about it, big picture, um,

• 41:28Tucker Carlson?

  they didn't make any arrests in this case or any progress in this case that we know of for five years. Until a media outlet produced a story, which I am not endorsing because I, I don't have the information to endorse it. But in which they named a suspect on the basis of a gate analysis program, they ran against the CCTV footage. And on the basis of that, they named a woman called Shawnee Kirkov, I think her name is, who was a former Capitol Hill police officer, who now is in a security detail at the Central Intelligence Agency, amazingly. And they claimed that she failed a polygraph test when asked if she was the pipe bomber. And we should mention that Shawnee Kirkov has denied being the bomber or having any involvement in the case.

• 42:11Tucker Carlson?

  And, you know, it, uh, it was almost immediately after that, that your son was arrested. After five years of no progress on the case.

• 42:21Speaker 03

  Like two weeks later.

• 42:22Tucker Carlson?

  Is that true, two weeks later?

• 42:23Speaker 03

  Five to two weeks, five to seven, I think it was told on October 16th.

• 42:30Speaker 02

  About five weeks later.

• 42:31Speaker 03

  And November 8th.

• 42:33Tucker Carlson?

  So I have so many questions about this. The most obvious question is how did someone who's publicly named falsely or not, okay? I don't know. But publicly named as the pipe bomber. How does that person retain a security clearance and then wind up with increased authority? The security detail at CIA headquarters at Langley? Like what in the world are we watching here?

• 42:55Speaker 03

  Right.

• 42:56Tucker Carlson?

  Does that, I mean, you guys are.

• 42:57Speaker 03

  Makes no sense.

• 42:57Speaker 02

  Makes no.

• 42:58Tucker Carlson?

  Spend your lives adjacent to law enforcement. Does that make sense?

• 43:00Speaker 02

  Makes no sense. I've seen people lose security clearance over DUI or DWI.

• 43:06Tucker Carlson?

  Exactly.

• 43:07Speaker 02

  You know, I don't, I don't understand that one myself, you know?

• 43:10Tucker Carlson?

  But the arrest of your son, who has no publicly described connection whatsoever to J6, gets arrested immediately after this person, this other person is named in the media.

• 43:27Tucker Carlson?

  So this is why I wanted to talk to you because it does seem like you're looking at a kind of made for TV movie type conspiracy. What's the other explanation for this?

• 43:39Speaker 03

  That's the only place I thought stuff like this happened.

• 43:42Tucker Carlson?

  That's what I thought.

• 43:44Speaker 03

  That's the only place I cannot, I mean, I truly cannot, I, I've never thought that any like, anything like this happens here.

• 43:53Tucker Carlson?

  That the federal government would knowingly put an innocent man in jail and then hold him there without bond when they know he didn't do it?

• 44:00Speaker 03

  Yes. We have not spoken to our son directly, um, since, for me, the night of December 3rd. I mean, we talk over the phone.

• 44:13Speaker 02

  But what, but how much of a conversation can you have?

• 44:16Speaker 03

  Right.

• 44:17Speaker 02

  Over a jail phone? You know what I mean? Uh, he, he does give us video visits here and there. What can you say over a jail video visit?

• 44:26Tucker Carlson?

  Especially with someone who's not, as you said, much of a talker anyway. Total isolation.

• 44:32Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 44:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:36Tucker Carlson?

  What's interesting to me is that there is a blanket pardon in place issued by the president and it's in place for everyone associated with the January 6th events. Everyone who was indicted, uh, January 6th and convicted in some cases, they're all pardoned and the sentence is commuted. So your son is now in jail on January 6th related charges, I think.

• 45:01Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 45:02Tucker Carlson?

  Why doesn't that apply to him?

• 45:05Speaker 02

  I can't, we can't answer that. That's something that the lawyers need to.

• 45:10Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 45:10Speaker 02

  Come back and answer. I can't answer that. I have no.

• 45:13Tucker Carlson?

  I don't, I don't know the answer either, but it's very strange. The other thing that is strange to me is that, um, I think, tell me if I'm wrong, but that your son is charged with a weapons of mass destruction charge.

• 45:24Speaker 03

  I know, right? Crazy.

• 45:26Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 45:28Tucker Carlson?

  But it has been publicly confirmed that the bombs were inert.

• 45:32Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 45:32Tucker Carlson?

  They weren't actually bombs. They couldn't explode.

• 45:35Speaker 03

  That's my understanding.

• 45:36Speaker 02

  That's my understanding.

• 45:37Tucker Carlson?

  So how could you be charged with weapon, weapons of mass destruction offense for, assuming he had anything to do with this, but let's say he did. They literally weren't weapons of mass destruction.

• 45:47Speaker 03

  Right.

• 45:49Speaker 02

  That's another question that you would have to ask our legal, his legal team. Because I, you know, that's, I, I know, I can't answer it. We can't answer that. These are things that we, we just can't answer because we, we don't know, you know? How can they? You know, it, it don't make sense. You know, how, how can you charge him with that? You know?

• 46:09Tucker Carlson?

  Well, by their own description, it doesn't make sense. They're the ones who told us the bombs weren't real.

• 46:13Speaker 02

  Exactly. You know?

• 46:15Speaker 03

  And I went and looked at the image of what they said.

• 46:21Speaker 03

  And I'm like, they gotta be joking.

• 46:23Tucker Carlson?

  Why? Why did you think that?

• 46:25Speaker 03

  Those images, what's, what was those things gonna do?

• 46:29Tucker Carlson?

  When you saw, have you seen?

• 46:32Speaker 03

  Images online.

• 46:33Tucker Carlson?

  Video footage of the bomb?

• 46:34Speaker 03

  No, they have still pictures online.

• 46:37Speaker 02

  Of the, of the actual device.

• 46:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:39Tucker Carlson?

  Right, of the device.

• 46:40Speaker 03

  I think it was the device, um, they said under a bush.

• 46:44Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 46:45Speaker 03

  Or by a bush. So they have images of those online. And so, you know, again, I don't know anything like of this. So I, I'm just floored. I, I don't understand where they come with that.

• 47:01Tucker Carlson?

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• 48:23Speaker 07

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• 49:06Speaker 07

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• 49:11Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side, but Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid and risked 350,000 Virginians healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com, not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 49:41Speaker 06

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• 50:25Speaker 06

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• 50:44Tucker Carlson?

  Have you seen video of the pipe bomber? Cause there is video out there of the person.

• 50:49Speaker 03

  Only what I've seen online.

• 50:50Tucker Carlson?

  Online.

• 50:50Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 50:51Tucker Carlson?

  Um, I think most parents know what their children move like.

• 50:56Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 50:57Tucker Carlson?

  This is not scientific, but it's real and any parent can tell you if you see there's a crowd of people, you can tell which one's your kid, just by the way he moves. Is that, does that look like your son?

• 51:06Speaker 03

  Not at all. Not at all.

• 51:10Speaker 03

  At all.

• 51:13Tucker Carlson?

  In the time since his arrest in December, has anyone in your family or his friends come to you and said, actually, you didn't know Brian had a secret life you didn't know about?

• 51:24Speaker 02

  No, no, no.

• 51:27Speaker 03

  No.

• 51:29Tucker Carlson?

  Has anyone in the federal government indicated to you, and you don't need to use names, that this case is fake, that this is a miscarriage of justice, a travesty?

• 51:42Speaker 02

  I have, I've kind of separated myself and let, let, let his legal team handle everything. So I don't, we don't, I don't talk to anybody. I don't, you know, I refer everybody over to our legal team.

• 51:57Speaker 02

  But I can't, I'm gonna say no, no one has ever approached or, or.

• 52:02Tucker Carlson?

  You just have to wonder about the FBI agents or federal marshals, whoever they were, the people pointing rifles.

• 52:07Speaker 03

  Right.

• 52:08Tucker Carlson?

  At you and handcuffing you and handcuffing your grandson. Like, do they think that they're actually fighting for justice here? Do they really think that your son was the J6 pipe bomber?

• 52:21Speaker 03

  Who knows?

• 52:22Speaker 02

  I have, I have no idea, but I tell you this, and this is, this is something that was raised in court.

• 52:32Speaker 02

  For him to be such a dangerous person, and I, and I say this all the time, when they so-called, I guess, raided the house, why did they leave his firearm there?

• 52:49Tucker Carlson?

  They did.

• 52:49Speaker 02

  If he was such a dangerous person, why, why did they leave his firearm sitting there?

• 52:55Speaker 03

  Yeah. They left it on his nice.

• 52:57Speaker 02

  If you, if you were thinking he was just dangerous, just, you know,

• 53:03Speaker 02

  whatever kind of person they, they, they trying to allege that he is, why not, why not take that? Do that make sense?

• 53:14Tucker Carlson?

  Well, cause they know he's not a dangerous person.

• 53:16Speaker 03

  Yeah. And then again, you know, if he's this dangerous person, why follow him all this time? Why, when you come to my house, you don't evacuate at least my cul-de-sac? If all of what you're saying is in my house, I'm upset because if that was truly the case, why you guys let us live in a house that you feel is unsafe like that?

• 53:41Speaker 02

  That someone is dangerous like that.

• 53:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:43Tucker Carlson?

  And that is filled with bombing equipment and high explosives.

• 53:46Speaker 02

  I don't know, we don't know anything about that.

• 53:48Speaker 03

  That's like crazy.

• 53:49Speaker 02

  I just, my, my biggest thing is, why did they wait so long if they knew?

• 53:55Speaker 03

  Right.

• 53:56Speaker 02

  If they supposedly knew what was going on and knew he was this person, one, why leave a dangerous weapon sitting in, in there?

• 54:04Speaker 02

  Why not, once again, like she said, evacuate, why not have evacuated the neighbors and evacuated the, the cul-de-sac?

• 54:10Tucker Carlson?

  Well, here's, again, what we know, what we know is that a former Capitol Hill police officer who was employed at Capitol Police on January 6th, wound up working at CIA headquarters in Langley. And that person was named publicly in a media report as the Capitol Hill pipe bomber. And almost immediately after that person was named, they arrested your son.

• 54:32Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 54:33Tucker Carlson?

  And again, to be clear, Shawnee Kirkofer denies being the J6 bomber or having any involvement in the case. What were they doing for five years? When, have they told you when they figured out that your son was the pipe bomber?

• 54:43Speaker 02

  No, not at all.

• 54:46Tucker Carlson?

  How long do you think they were surveilling him?

• 54:49Speaker 02

  I, they, they've had pictures of him at the office.

• 54:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, the office.

• 54:54Speaker 02

  They've had pictures of him at the office. I mean, I've seen a picture of him at the office.

• 54:57Tucker Carlson?

  Your family office?

• 54:58Speaker 03

  Yes. I've seen a picture of him walking and this other, one of the, the stores because we had a clogged, a clogged drain.

• 55:10Speaker 03

  But, so I knew that that was the most recent picture.

• 55:13Speaker 02

  That's it. I don't know anything.

• 55:15Tucker Carlson?

  Well, you sent him to the hardware store to get somebody to fix the drain.

• 55:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:18Speaker 02

  But that was, that was about it.

• 55:20Tucker Carlson?

  And how long before his arrest was that?

• 55:23Speaker 03

  I would say maybe two weeks or so.

• 55:25Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 55:26Speaker 03

  So they had been following him.

• 55:28Tucker Carlson?

  But as far as you know, their surveillance of your son began after Shawnee Kirkofer was named.

• 55:34Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 55:35Tucker Carlson?

  The CIA.

• 55:36Speaker 03

  Yes, from my understanding, yes.

• 55:38Tucker Carlson?

  Okay, so again, I'm not alleging this, I'm just noting that it looks like they didn't really focus on your son until media reports named a CIA employee.

• 55:50Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 55:50Tucker Carlson?

  As the pipe bomber. And then, you know, not to be cynical, but it looks like they're like, holy smokes, we gotta find someone to blame for this pipe bomb.

• 55:58Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 55:59Tucker Carlson?

  Because the person who's been publicly named still has security clearances and reportedly is on the Director of Central Intelligence's personal security detail.

• 56:08Speaker 02

  And I didn't, I didn't know that. I didn't know that.

• 56:10Tucker Carlson?

  I, I don't know that, uh, you know, can't verify that, but, um.

• 56:17Speaker 03

  That's what it appears to be.

• 56:18Tucker Carlson?

  Yes, that's what it appears. So, um, it doesn't look good at all. So who do you, who do you appeal to? Like, other than your attorneys? Like, are there any political figures who've called you and said, what is this?

• 56:33Speaker 03

  No.

• 56:34Speaker 02

  None.

• 56:35Tucker Carlson?

  None, not to be mean, but like, what about the civil rights establishment? Like, where, where are they? Like, where's Sharpton?

• 56:42Speaker 03

  I have no idea.

• 56:42Tucker Carlson?

  I am being mean. Okay, I'll stop. But, but has anyone defended you? I guess that's all I'm saying. Or defended your son, your family?

• 56:49Speaker 02

  No.

• 56:51Speaker 03

  Only, you know, Steve Baker, you know, our attorneys, of course, you know, our family, you know?

• 57:02Speaker 03

  But as far as, you know, everyone as a whole, you know, there, there, I'm, I'm reading and I'm seeing people say things, but no.

• 57:15Tucker Carlson?

  You live in Virginia, there's a governor, there are two senators, or a whole bunch of congressmen.

• 57:19Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 57:20Tucker Carlson?

  No calls from any of them.

• 57:21Speaker 03

  None. None.

• 57:25Tucker Carlson?

  I can't imagine what this is costing.

• 57:28Tucker Carlson?

  You both just sighed.

• 57:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, you know, not only financially, but you know, this is, this is heavy. This is weighing on our whole family, our extended family, because we all protect Brian. You can ask anyone who has come in contact with Brian, family, friends, neighbors, you know, just in passing, that know, they most definitely have the wrong guy, you know? And because he is autistic and we know, you know, how he is, we're suffering because he's suffering and he's trying to protect us by saying he's okay.

• 58:17Speaker 03

  You know?

• 58:20Tucker Carlson?

  You're making me emotional, sorry.

• 58:22Speaker 02

  It's mentally, it's mentally draining, physically draining is, it's hard. It's hard, you know, not only the financial side of it, but the, the, you know, worrying about him every day, worrying about him every night, you know, and he, he, he does a good job. He does, he do give us a call every day.

• 58:44Speaker 03

  He does.

• 58:45Speaker 02

  He calls us every night, every, every single one of us, because that's his, that's his, his pattern.

• 58:51Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 58:52Speaker 02

  Twice a day, we hear from him twice a day, every single one of us. And, uh, I mean, he, you know, he's okay. And like I said, I take my.

• 59:06Speaker 02

  I give credit where credit is due.

• 59:11Speaker 02

  And if I ask Brian, is everything okay? Are you okay? He's gonna, he's gonna give me an honest answer. And he's okay. You know, they, he's in a, he's in a really good place, safe place. And he's, they taking good care of him. I, I, I gotta say that because I don't want anyone to think he's being mistreated or anything like that.

• 59:32Speaker 03

  No, I don't think he's being mistreated.

• 59:34Speaker 02

  They, at least did that correctly.

• 59:37Tucker Carlson?

  But he's in jail.

• 59:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's in jail. He's in jail.

• 59:40Tucker Carlson?

  So you've been in this business for 31 years. Have you ever met anyone who enjoyed jail?

• 59:43Speaker 02

  No one, no one enjoys jail. No one enjoys jail. But I do know that things could have been a lot worse. You know what I'm saying? And I, and I don't, and I don't wanna, I don't wanna downplay and, and say that, you know, he's being treated this way. They, they doing this, I'm not gonna say that. I'm just gonna say Brian is okay. You know, he's okay. He, he, he's not, um, he's not being mistreated.

• 1:00:09Tucker Carlson?

  Well, you have a very forgiving and optimistic perspective. But I think for most people, the idea of having your son snatched off the street and his mother, you know, and her grandson handcuffed and then locked away for a year on ridiculous untrue charges and slandered in public on the basis of no evidence at all. The whole thing just sounds like out of a movie or something that could never happen in this country.

• 1:00:38Speaker 02

  Like a Netflix series.

• 1:00:39Tucker Carlson?

  Like a Netflix series.

• 1:00:41Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the HouseMajorityPact.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 1:01:10Speaker 06

  Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability. And it all starts with a great deal from your local Toyota dealer. Make a smart buy on an all-wheel-drive Camry, Corolla Cross, or get a Corolla sedan packed with the latest features, advanced tech, and head-turning style. Or take a test drive in two of Toyota's most popular SUVs, the spacious, family-friendly Grand Highlander and adventure-ready RAV4. And with so many hybrid and plug-in hybrid models available across the lineup, plus efficient all-electrics like the BZ, BZ Woodland, and all-wheel-drive CHR, you can drive your way and skip the pump. And long after you leave the lot, your Toyota keeps delivering. With legendary resale value, built on a reputation for quality and reliability.

• 1:01:54Speaker 06

  So when it's time for your next Toyota, you could trade in for more. From a great deal today to a great value tomorrow. A Toyota is right for you. Shoptoyota.com for deals and details, or stop by your local Toyota dealer today. Toyota, let's go places.

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• 1:02:42Tucker Carlson?

  Well, I hope this helps. And I think anyone watching this, I don't think I'm easily fooled. Maybe I am. I don't think so. And I've certainly talked to a lot of people in a similar position. And I believe your story completely. And I hope that this gets wide attention. And I hope massive pressure is applied to the authorities to stop this immediately.

• 1:03:02Speaker 02

  Well, we wanna say this as a family. We wanna, we wanna thank you. And thank you for allowing us to come on your platform and, and talk about this.

• 1:03:15Speaker 02

  And, you know, just wanna say thank you.

• 1:03:17Tucker Carlson?

  Well, thank you. It's, it's actually not me. It was, I, you know, I'm, I'm paying half attention like the rest of us to most of the news, just like you were when you were watching television. Oh, they got the bomber or whatever. You know, it's like I wasn't paying attention. I got a call from, as I said at the outset, someone I know in the federal government who's highly informed and very experienced and skeptical of everything. Was like, this is the craziest thing I've ever seen. They grabbed this random autistic guy and put him in jail, like right after Steve Baker named this federal employee as the pipe bomber. This is shocking that this could happen. And this is a federal employee who told me this, in a relevant agency. So I was highly motivated to meet you after that. I'm grateful for him.

• 1:03:59Speaker 03

  So are we. Because this is, this is horrible. This is a travesty, you know?

• 1:04:09Speaker 03

  And I'm so angry. I am, I am, I am angry. I am disappointed, you know?

• 1:04:19Speaker 03

  But I have to keep focused.

• 1:04:21Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:04:21Speaker 03

  On my son, you know?

• 1:04:27Speaker 03

  For me, as the ma, as his mom, and for his dad,

• 1:04:34Speaker 03

  it's too different. So, you know, as he just said, he will open up to his dad, but he won't open up to me that sense because he know how I feel. He know I'm gonna worry, you know? And to know that he's been snatched away from me the way that he has, and I can't talk to him openly and hug him, even though he doesn't like hugs, but he know I'm gonna do it, you know?

• 1:05:04Speaker 03

  And just being autistic when you're in a, in an environment where it's so much stuff around, you know? You're, you're, it's chaotic inside.

• 1:05:20Tucker Carlson?

  It's overload.

• 1:05:21Speaker 03

  Right. And so to be put in a place that's chaotic. So you're dealing with chaos inside and outside, and it's out of your control, you know? And I can only emphasize what he's going through. And there's nothing we can do to help. Nothing.

• 1:05:38Speaker 02

  Nothing. And that's, that's the downside.

• 1:05:40Speaker 03

  And we know that he doesn't belong there. And they know that he doesn't belong there. And they're prolonging this, and it shouldn't be. And, and this, I, I feel helpless at the moment. And that's why I appreciate our attorneys. I appreciate Steve Baker. I appreciate those that are out there speaking out and trying to share the story. Because I, I truly think that somewhere, somehow, someone is trying to suppress this.

• 1:06:11Tucker Carlson?

  Why?

• 1:06:11Speaker 02

  And we appreciate you too for allowing us to come.

• 1:06:13Tucker Carlson?

  Well, I think, I think someone is trying to suppress this.

• 1:06:16Speaker 03

  I really do.

• 1:06:16Tucker Carlson?

  And destroying a young man to do it is, is unforgivable.

• 1:06:19Speaker 03

  And especially someone like Brian. This can happen to anybody, not let alone a person with autism. Anyone, anyone. You know, I just, I'm, I'm grateful to God that we have the ability to fight for our son.

• 1:06:35Tucker Carlson?

  That's exactly right.

• 1:06:36Speaker 03

  Because just imagine if we didn't.

• 1:06:38Tucker Carlson?

  I was thinking that this morning.

• 1:06:40Speaker 03

  Only off a word of what the, what the government has said, everyone has believed. Nobody's looking into nothing. Nobody is saying anything.

• 1:06:49Speaker 02

  And, and that's, that's one of the things, you know, coming on your platform.

• 1:06:55Speaker 02

  We just want people to go and just do their own research. Let them go read. Just, it's, it's all there. Look at, look at what the government has presented.

• 1:07:08Speaker 02

  It's all right there. You're gonna see the, let them make their opinion on the case. That's all I'm asking.

• 1:07:18Tucker Carlson?

  I have looked at it. It's a joke. And they're liars. And to do this to an innocent man is totally unforgivable and should not be allowed in a civilized and free country. Period.

• 1:07:27Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:07:28Tucker Carlson?

  So God bless you both.

• 1:07:29Speaker 03

  Thank you. Same to you.

• 1:07:30Tucker Carlson?

  Thank you.