85 Tucker Max on Relationships, Fear of Monogamy and How to Shift From a Destructive Habit

"I value her in the relationship more than a random sexual encounter." - Tucker Max To learn more about the show, we welcome you to LewisHowes.com/85 Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 85 with Tucker Max.

• 0:07Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:33Lewis Howes?

  Hey, everyone. Thanks so much for joining me today on the School of Greatness podcast. I'm your host, Lewis Howes, and this is the second part of a two-part series with the one and only Tucker Max. And if you haven't listened to the first episode yet, make sure to go check that one out over at lewishowes.com/78. That's the 78th episode, where Tucker and I dive in deep about how to market your book and sell thousands of copies of your book yourself without a publisher. And he is really the king of this. You know, he's got three different books that have been on the New York Times Bestseller list at the same time. I think there's only other two other people have ever done that. Malcolm

• 1:17Lewis Howes?

  Gladwell is one of them. So he is an authority in that topic for sure. A lot of people love that episode. So go check that episode out. The second part of the episode, we start diving into a few of the topics of Tucker's personal life. And I realized that it wasn't a good fit to have all-in-one episodes. We broke it up in two episodes. And in this episode, we'll really talk about how fame and money have affected Tucker's happiness. We talk about the challenges and the fears of being in a dedicated relationship from Tucker's experience. We also talk about how Tucker is using psychoanalysis to delve into his relationship issues from the past. We talk about how Tucker meditates and his thoughts

• 2:00Lewis Howes?

  on meditation, how Tucker used alcohol and women to deal with anxiety in the past, and how he's shifted now out of that. We talk about Tucker's childhood and how it affected his drive to be successful and why he's been so successful. We talk about the emotional reasoning behind Tucker's passion for reading. If you go to this guy's house, he's got books everywhere. The whole, all the walls are filled with bookshelves and all the books he's read. It's extremely impressive. But we talk about the emotional reasoning behind this for why he reads so much. And then we talk about the biggest lesson Tucker has learned from starting a committed relationship. So I'm actually excited about this one. It was a lot of fun to have this conversation.

• 2:45Lewis Howes?

  I learned a lot about Tucker and why he does all that he does. So I hope you guys enjoy this. And you know, let me know in the comment section after you listen to this episode, in the comment section over at LewisHowes.com/85, let me know if you've ever had some of these similar feelings about relationships. Go ahead and post them, similar fears, similar anything, whatever that you've been affected by with relationships. Talk about the challenges, the fears. Let me know if you've had any of those similar feelings that Tucker talks about here. And I'll be interested to see where you guys are coming from as well. So without further ado, let's go ahead and dive into this episode number 85 with the one and only Tucker Max.

• 3:40Lewis Howes?

  Unless you don't care about making sales and getting the book out there, you just want to say you have a book and be known as an author, then I guess that's the story.

• 3:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, then don't waste any time marketing the book.

• 3:49Lewis Howes?

  Right, exactly.

• 3:49Speaker 01

  No, like, there are a lot of people who, you're exactly right, Lewis, they want to, they want to write a book because they want to be able to put it on their speaker page and they can double their speaking fee. Totally fine. If that's your goal, just do a super professional book and don't spend one dime marketing. Because it doesn't matter.

• 4:08Lewis Howes?

  Right. Well, I mean, I want to, I actually want to transition into your personal life for a second and why you transitioned out of Writing the books that you were writing about and to kind of doing what you're doing now, which is more writing about book marketing and doing the dating stuff and also, you know, just kind of changing things around in your life. You know, when I saw you last, you have a, I don't know if you're even, you know, public about this, but you're, you've got a.

• 4:35Speaker 01

  No, no, the one thing I know you're gonna talk, I'm public about the fact I have a girlfriend. The thing I know you're about to talk about.

• 4:40Lewis Howes?

  You're not public about it. Okay, okay. Well, you're, you're, you're kind of like taking it easy, I'll say. You're kind of like putting your roots, you're putting your roots down. And why is that? And is that making, you know, is having a girlfriend and kind of like transitioning into other things? Is there a reason for that? And, um, you know, what, kind of what's next for you with all this?

• 5:03Speaker 01

  Honestly, man, it just became one of those things where it was like, there wasn't one day I woke up and I'm like, oh, I wanna like, put my roots down and have a girlfriend and get married and have a family. It's just like, eh, look, when you're, I always say it like this. When you're 10 years old, you love playing with G.I. Joes. When you're 20, like you, that seems stupid, right? Well, it's sort of the same thing. Like when I was 20, all I wanted to do was get drunk and sleep with chicks and act like a fucking idiot. And I did. I acted like a moron for a long time and it was super fun. And then it just got kind of boring for me. And, you know, like I happened to turn that sort of into a business and into a career, sort of, uh, writing about that. And so it kind of went a little longer than it might, may have otherwise gone with me.

• 5:45Speaker 01

  But I just don't, I just don't feel like doing that anymore, dude. It's just, it's just that simple. Like I don't feel like waking up with a different girl every day or like getting drunk and acting like an idiot, throwing up on myself. It's, it's fun for a while, but after a while it's boring and I wanted to move on to the next part of my life. And that, that was why I retired from Frat Tire. That's why I explicitly told my fans, I'm not writing any more of these books. I'm done with this. And then like, it just became a thing. It was like, oh, like what do I want to do? And it took me about a year, two years. And I, but I realized, like, there's a million things I could do, right? But what are the two things I'm really good at? Well, I know books and book publishing really well. And I know girls and, and sort of dating and sex really well.

• 6:25Speaker 01

  So I'm just teaching those two things. Cause those two things are both areas that a lot of people want to be better at. And I'm good at. And what was stupid is I spent a lot of years giving people free advice, which is fine. I have no problem giving my friends advice, but it like, we have a situation like my buddy with the book. It's like, I'll tell someone once and then I get tired because I get the next question, the same question the next day. And they're like, well, why don't you write this down? And that's, they're right. I should if I write it down once and I don't have to fucking tell everyone.

• 6:51Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 6:51Speaker 01

  You know? Yeah. So that's what I'm.

• 6:53Lewis Howes?

  Now, and so you've got the podcast, which is pretty cool. You know, again, I listened to an episode and I think it's amazing what you're up to. Um, but what's, you know, this is going to last for a while too. Have you thought about like, you know, what's, what you're going to be, what you really want to be working on in five, 10 years? Kind of like, this is stuff that you're really good at and you can make money at and you can help a lot of people. But is there other things that you're like so extremely passionate about that you haven't tapped into yet? Or have you thought about like, what's next?

• 7:18Speaker 01

  I mean, okay. So obviously family relationship, my personal life is obviously very important, right? So I, I assume you're just talking about work life, obviously.

• 7:25Lewis Howes?

  Oh, everything, everything.

• 7:26Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, okay. So if you want to talk about like.

• 7:29Lewis Howes?

  Like what do you want to do? Like, how do you want to give back or, or even thinking that? Or are you trying to build businesses? Do you want to, you know, own a basketball team? What is it?

• 7:37Speaker 01

  I wish.

• 7:38Lewis Howes?

  I know you love basketball.

• 7:40Speaker 01

  Uh, well, I've actually been hanging out with Mark Cuban a little bit, uh, because we like, we go to these fantasy camps. He, dude, I'll tell you, you want to talk about an authentic guy? He's so awesome. He's so in person, exactly the way you think he is from TV. That dude's just amazing. Like I can't say enough good things about Mark Cuban. I wish I could own a basketball team. I don't, I don't know if I, it looks like basketball, the going rate's about $2 billion. I don't think I'm going to earn that. I think, I think I may fall short of that. But, um, no, here's, so the big thing for me, I think the last two, three years has been my personal life, right? Um, it wasn't a disaster by any stretch, but it was like, I definitely learned the lesson that a lot of people learn. Having a lot of money and being famous doesn't fix your problems.

• 8:21Speaker 01

  It just means that you have money and are famous and that, and you, it actually means you can hide from your problems. A lot easier, which is, uh, sort of detrimental. So, um, I've always had great friends. Uh, I haven't really had great romantic relationships. I've had a lot of romantic relationships, but there weren't a whole lot of them that were really quality. And so I, you know, like, I've really worked on that and I think I have, I mean, you met Veronica. I think I have a really great girlfriend and we have a great relationship now and, um. And so, working on sort of intimate, sort of deep, meaningful relationships beyond just friends is definitely a priority for me. Because like, the only two things that matter in life are work and love. And I don't mean work like your job. I mean, the things you do that matter to other people, right?

• 9:03Speaker 01

  And so, like, love and relationships are very important, but that's not sort of a public thing. That's just, you know, that's my life, right?

• 9:10Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 9:11Speaker 01

  The work stuff is more like, I mean, this is, here's the funny thing, man. I thought, I know I can make a ton of money teaching book publishing and book marketing and sort of sex and dating young guys. I actually thought it for a few years, just because it was like, I didn't want to go into those areas just to make money, you know? Like, because to me, they're both very important things, and it's like, I wanted to do them right.

• 9:34Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 9:34Speaker 01

  And it was, I had one of my friends, actually Noah, you know Noah Kagan?

• 9:38Lewis Howes?

  Of course.

• 9:38Speaker 01

  Like Noah's like, one of the ones, he's like, what are you doing, dude? He's like, you know this stuff so well. He's like, you can do it in a way, like, I was afraid, I guess part of me was afraid. Selling information always felt scammy to me. Because so many, well, here's the thing, so many people who sell information online are scammy direct marketers. Not all of them by any stretch. But a lot of them are. And I just hated that feeling of being like them. But like, obviously, the solution is simple. Don't do the things they do. Give most of your good information away. You know, sell, only sell the things that like, you know, cost you time, right? And sell them to people who have a lot of money and who can leverage it and ROI it. And that's, that way, you can essentially pay for giving the information away free

• 10:20Speaker 01

  by the people who have more money than time, pay for that. And it makes total sense. And so, that's what I'm definitely gonna do the next, I don't know, four, five, six years. Beyond that, man, I don't know. I mean, I don't, I'm not smart enough to be able to predict that far in the future.

• 10:34Lewis Howes?

  I feel you. Now, here's a personal question, and if you'd rather not talk about it, that's fine, but.

• 10:41Lewis Howes?

  You know, for basically twenty something years, you've been having, let's say, shallower relationships with women.

• 10:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:49Lewis Howes?

  And, you know, looking for a transaction, looking forward to have fun and whatever. Short-term relationships. And now you're in what seems like a very loving relationship, very intimate, very connected, you know, vulnerable, all those things that are necessary for a loving relationship. Do you find it challenging and scary to stay in it like day in and day out? Do you find it hard and difficult to not fall back into your default that you've done for twenty years? And are there moments where you're like, I don't know if I can do this and kind of freak out, or you just talk it through, or what's kind of the process?

• 11:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, dude, I mean, of course, it's being vulnerable is really fucking scary, dude. That's, that's why it takes real fucking courage.

• 11:32Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 11:33Speaker 01

  To, to admit your fears and to face them and to open up like, fuck, yeah, dude, that's really hard. I mean, so, yes.

• 11:40Lewis Howes?

  And how are you doing it?

• 11:41Speaker 01

  So, the, the big way, honestly, is, um, I, I've been in psychoanalysis for three years, man. Like, I, I go, like, psychoanalysis is, is a certain type of talk therapy. Pretty much any talk therapy can work. I mean, cognitive behavioral therapy, whatever. There's any number of, of sort of modalities and, and most of them work, at least for certain things, right? Talk, psychoanalysis is just a very intense type that tends to work for people who are very thoughtful and very intelligent and really want to understand themselves and dig in. You know, I'm sort of like, you and I are both same, we're both very high information sort of voters, you know? And like, I really want to know everything I can, where some people are like, I don't care about knowing shit, I just want the problem fixed and that's it, right?

• 12:24Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 12:25Speaker 01

  I want to know everything. And so, that's psychoanalysis for tho- those type of people. And, um, I've been doing that for three years. And, uh, what it really does is it just teaches you how to understand yourself, understand your emotions, understand sort of where your thoughts are coming from, you know, like, why you're having them, um, those sorts of things. And, uh, it's, it's almost like, like, the way that people, I don't know if you read Ten Percent Happier, uh, but that book, it's pretty good. This guy kind of, he's a news guy, he started taking up medication, he, or not medication, meditation. And he, um, he realized, oh my God, I had all these thoughts and emotions in this constant inner monologue and I didn't realize it. And it was like, meditation is the same, very similar to psychoanalysis, except one's

• 13:09Speaker 01

  talk therapy and one's sort of like self-therapy, but they're, they're very similar, uh, and they, they have the same end goal in a lot of ways. And the, I, I needed, that was the tool I used, is sort of talk therapy to understand myself and my emotions. So I still have, um, fear and I still, like, being close to people is hard for me, it's hard for a lot of dudes. Uh, the only difference between me and a lot of guys, I'm not afraid to admit it, and a lot of guys are, you know? And it, it, it took, but here's the thing, it took me a long time to even admit that. To even admit that took me a long time.

• 13:41Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, of course.

• 13:41Speaker 01

  To myself, and, um, yeah dude, like, uh, I, I, I found an amazing woman and she, uh, she likes to talk about, sort of, most women do like to talk about this stuff, but she, she does. And so, like, we talk about, like, if I get upset, or if, like, I feel whatever, we just talk about it and we talk it through, and then it's like, the, the anxiety goes away.

• 14:04Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 14:04Speaker 01

  You, you have to always do, when anxiety comes up, you gotta do something to relieve it. And I probably used to use, like, either alcohol or women or whatever to relieve it, right? Um, now I, like, well, first off, I, I, I, I addressed a lot of my issues, so the anxiety comes up way less often. But now, it, it, like, I talk to my girlfriend, or I, you know, do something like that, and then it's like, oh, okay, like, why did, you know, why am I, I'm upset right now, why am I upset? Oh, well, probably because, like, X happened this morning. Why would that upset me? Because, whatever. You know?

• 14:37Lewis Howes?

  Right, right. Now, I think a lot of men, um, have a similar fear of getting in a relationship and then feeling like either they're missing out, or maybe they still wanna be, you know, explore other options. Now, that's some, that's definitely something I've had, uh, and it's also a fear of mine, like, getting in a new relationship, I'm like, okay, what if I fall in love? Or have this amazing time, and then after a year or two, it's like, I wanna start exploring other options, or see what else is out there. Now- I have no clue, because I'm not in like a committed relationship right now, what that would feel like, but is that something that's ever come up for you? Or if it is, do you do exactly what you just said, which is like, hey, I'm having these feelings or thoughts of like, maybe exploring something?

• 15:21Lewis Howes?

  And then you just talk it out and then anxiety goes away?

• 15:24Speaker 01

  Uh, okay, so there's a lot of issues with that question. So really, no, but it's a really fucking good question, man. Because that question is at the core of a lot of things for a lot of guys. Here's the thing, um, if I had met my current girlfriend at 28, it would have been a total, she probably wouldn't have dated me and it would have been a total disaster. Because at 28, I still had to fuck a bunch more women, you know? And so like, I, I think what a lot of guys don't do is they don't sit down and are really take inventory and are really honest with themselves about what they want. They, they know what they're supposed to want, like they're either, you know, you see both sides. You see guys who think that they have to fuck a bunch of girls, but actually want a girlfriend. And you see guys who think they're supposed to have a girlfriend, but actually want to fuck a bunch of different girls.

• 16:09Speaker 01

  Listen, guys, neither one is right objectively. There's just what's right for you in that moment, you know? And the reality is, for whatever reason, it kind of doesn't matter what, what the reason is. The reality is, in my twenties and early thirties, I needed to experience a lot of women. And I did, and it was awesome. At least like a lot of it was fun. And I don't want to say I got it out of my system, but I think if I had never done that, it would, would have been an issue for me going forward with relationships, right? Now, here's the thing, I actually had this conversation with my girlfriend about three or four nights ago. I still see attractive women and of course I want to sleep with them, you know, like, like I, I will be dead.

• 16:52Speaker 01

  The time that I see a hot girl and don't think anything sexual at all about her, that will be the day that I'm dead, right?

• 16:58Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 16:58Speaker 01

  And I mean that-

• 16:59Lewis Howes?

  Probably for most men too.

• 17:00Speaker 01

  Right, exactly. So there's nothing wrong with that, right? It, it's more like, okay, like it doesn't mean, here's the thing, it doesn't mean I want to necessarily act on it. Because at the end of the day, it does become a call, whether you realize it or not, it's a cost benefit analysis.

• 17:13Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 17:13Speaker 01

  I really liked my girlfriend with my, or my relationship- With my girlfriend, I really love her a lot. And I would have no problem fucking that girl. And uh, so it would be no problem for me. That would hurt her a lot. That would betray the trust she has in the relationship and probably end the relationship, or at the very least, change it fundamentally in a, in a bad way.

• 17:33Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 17:34Speaker 01

  I value her in the relationship more than a random sexual encounter.

• 17:37Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 17:38Speaker 01

  So that's just, that's like, it's not even a hard thing for me. Like, it's not, i- if I had not experienced a bunch of women, it would be really hard for me, I think. But I have, and I know what tha- that other side is like, and it's not bad. It like, sleeping with a bunch of, of women is not a bad thing, but it's not, it's not as fulfilling to me at this point in my life than having a deeply committed, meaningful relationship. Now, dude, here's, you, you had a good point. Well, what happens if I don't want that later on? Well, motherfucker, live that life when that time comes. No, seriously, man.

• 18:09Lewis Howes?

  It's scary for a lot of people, though.

• 18:10Speaker 01

  It is scary, but nothing is forever, not even your life.

• 18:13Lewis Howes?

  Of course.

• 18:14Speaker 01

  So why are you, like, you shouldn't make a decision based on what you think you might do in twenty years or something, you know? Like, I know that I love my girlfriend now, I know I'm gonna love her in the near future. I know that I wanna try and build something meaningful with her. And I, is it a possibility that she leaves me, or I leave her, or she wants something different, or I want something different in five years? Yeah. Or ten years? Absolutely. But, I mean, it's a possibility I'm gonna get hit by a piano falling out of the sky. I mean, come on, man.

• 18:43Lewis Howes?

  Life is now, and you gotta make decisions based on now, not five years.

• 18:47Speaker 01

  Right, if you govern your life based on avoiding potential fear in the future, you will never do anything.

• 18:53Lewis Howes?

  Right, right. I'm gonna break this up into two episodes, just because I'm, I wanna keep talking about this subject.

• 18:58Speaker 01

  Okay, let's go.

• 18:59Lewis Howes?

  But it doesn't make, it doesn't make sense to have a book marketing and sleeping with women in the same, in the same podcast, so just so that you know.

• 19:05Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 19:06Lewis Howes?

  But what I'm interested in knowing is...

• 19:10Lewis Howes?

  What is it about your girlfriend that makes her the one for you right now? Or makes her the one that you want to develop a deep relationship with her and really connect and not sleep with other women? What is it that, what are the qualities she possesses? What is the, you know, the things that she has that supports you as a man that says like, this is the girl that I want to be with right now?

• 19:29Speaker 01

  Right, so let me address, it's a super good question. Let me address one thing. So I, I, I, I know there are a lot of people, swingers or certain guys that say you can sleep with multiple women and have deep emotional connections with all of them or have connections with all of them. I don't believe that. Like, and believe me, I have fucking tested this. I wish it was true. Like, I have lived with women where I was sleeping with all three of them. I have dated lesbian or like sort of the bisexual girls who might as well have been lesbians who brought girls home all the time.

• 20:01Lewis Howes?

  Wait, did you say you were asleep, living with three women at the same time?

• 20:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, living with three and fucking all three of them, yeah. They knew, there wasn't.

• 20:09Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 20:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, no doubt. Or maybe I think it was two of the three and then one, whatever, but yes.

• 20:15Lewis Howes?

  You've explored it all.

• 20:16Speaker 01

  The other one wasn't living there, but she might as well have been because she was there six nights a week. But whatever, so like the point is, I, I have never seen a situation where you're capable of having deep intimate trusting emotional connections with multiple girls or with open relationships. Okay, there are people who say it's possible, good for them, I wish I could make it work, I can't. So the only reason that I'm willing to be monogamous with my girlfriend, one is because she wants it, but like, so what, what am I getting out of it, right?

• 20:48Lewis Howes?

  If she didn't want it, would you be able to make it work?

• 20:51Speaker 01

  If she wanted to have threesomes every now and then, I'd be totally down. I, I would love that, that would be amazing.

• 20:56Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 20:57Speaker 01

  Uh, but see, here's the thing, I've already, I've already done that, so.

• 20:59Lewis Howes?

  It's not necessary.

• 21:00Speaker 01

  Right, here's, dude, threesomes are actually a lot of work. Like, that's the dirty little secret of them is like, once a month, it's kind of cool. But if you do it over and over, it's like, oh god, you're like fucking sexually exhausted all the time. And dude, I have a pretty high sex drive and, and I'm saying this as a dude who has no problems like getting it up or, you know, I, I can, I'm reloaded quick. Dude, it's kind of a pain in the ass if every night it's like, oh god, I gotta fuck two girls twice again. It's just like, it it it's almost like living at a buffet, you know? Like a buffet is awesome if you go once a week, but if you live there, you get sick of food.

• 21:36Lewis Howes?

  Exhausted, yeah.

• 21:36Speaker 01

  Right, exactly. So, but my point is, what I find in her is that, what what I get out of this is we have a deep emotional connection. I I can trust her, I I more than I probably trusted anyone else in my life. I can be vulnerable with her, you know, like it's like having a soft place to land. Uh, I can confide in her. She's so supportive. She's so caring. She's so sweet. She's always on my side. Um, I mean, not literally, but basically always on my side. She's on my side, you know?

• 22:08Lewis Howes?

  She's on your team.

• 22:09Speaker 01

  Right.

• 22:10Lewis Howes?

  She wants you to win in life.

• 22:11Speaker 01

  Exactly. She's, I I know she's got my back. And that sort of connection and that feeling is amazing and so important, right? Now, at twenty-eight, I didn't value that more than sex, sex with a lot of women, because I thought I was getting that from, you know, like I had a bunch of really good friends and I still do, but friends aren't the same thing, man. As good as the best friends are, it's not the same thing as an amazing relationship, amazing partnership, because it's basically two people connected in a lot of ways becoming one emotionally. You know, not literally, of course, but um, becoming one. And so, so that that I just want to make that clear. That's why I'm willing to sort of be in a monogamous relationship,

• 22:52Speaker 01

  because I think I I what I'm getting is more valuable than what I'm letting go, right? There are different things, though, and it's absolutely possible to value them differently than I am right now. And I value them differently in my life. You know what I'm saying?

• 23:07Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure.

• 23:08Speaker 01

  So there's not a right answer here. It's just what makes sense for you at the moment. Now, why do I am attracted to my girlfriend? Because, well, first off, let's not skip over the obvious thing. She's really fucking hot. I mean, like,

• 23:19Lewis Howes?

  You've got to be physically attracted.

• 23:20Speaker 01

  Obviously, she's tall, she's beautiful, I like. She's like, right, she's a CrossFit competitor. She's like a fucking amazing at it, but she's not like a bodybuilder ridiculous monster. She's still really sexy.

• 23:32Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 23:32Speaker 01

  Um, and so like, she's a very physically attracted to her. Uh, physically, we, we have similar drives. She wants to fuck all the time. And it's like, she even wears me out sometimes, which is kind of perfect. Like, it's all, it's never good. It's usually not good if the guy like doesn't get enough. Like, that's unsatisfying. It is on a physical level. Um, she is very intelligent. She's very smart. She's a challenge for me to talk to. She knows more about, she's a nurse practitioner and, you know, like knows, uh, like, she's like a paleo ancestral sort of, uh, practicing, um, you know, like Rob Wolf and Marxist and those people.

• 24:06Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 24:07Speaker 01

  And she knows more about that field than I do. It's something I care about and I know a lot about, and she knows way more than me, right?

• 24:12Lewis Howes?

  And that's sexy when you can learn something from your girl.

• 24:14Speaker 01

  Seriously, and learn real shit. Like, she's like, there's a lot of things about stuff that, that, uh, I was like, oh, I didn't know that. She's like, oh, you should do this differently. And I was like, really? And I tested, and lo and behold, she's fucking right. And it's like, alright, that's, that's pretty fucking cool, right? Um, and then she's also, she's very entrepreneurial. She has her own business. You know, she understands what it means to start a business. She's very supportive of like that, of me in that regard, and I am of her. I think most importantly though, dude, she's so sweet. And she's so caring, and she's so trustworthy, not in a pushover way, or not, it's like, she definitely, she's a very strong woman. And she absolutely like has her boundaries, but within those boundaries, she is so giving and so compassionate.

• 24:56Speaker 01

  And so empathetic. I feel, um, I mean, I kind of sound like a little bitch saying it, but I feel very safe with her. You know, very emotionally safe. And that, that, when you have that feeling, it's very hard. Um, or it's very, attractive is not the right word. It's, it's very engaging. It's very meaningful. Like, it, it. Dating her made me understand why people don't want to fuck a bunch of women, because it was hard for me to understand.

• 25:25Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 25:26Speaker 01

  Until I really met someone that I connected with on a deep level. And now I'm like, okay, I get it. I totally get it. It makes total sense. You know, I'm not gonna be start writing love songs about her and shit, but like. Like it it really makes sense.

• 25:38Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 25:39Speaker 01

  And and I feel like um I don't know, I I feel like I I'm able to be a better, more expressive, more full person because of this relationship.

• 25:48Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I mean, I definitely, you know, I would say, you know, hanging out with you a couple of years ago, you were you're still, you know, yourself, whatever, but seeing you this last time, it was definitely a sense of like calm groundedness. It wasn't like this, not like you weren't grounded before, but it was definitely a different sense about you and this groundedness. You're still outrageously, you know, expressive, but uh which isn't bad, it's just it's who you are. It's just like you were grounded, which was really cool to be around. And it's like you were connected in a different way. It's like you looked people in the eyes a different way and were able to relate and connect in a different way. Again, not right or wrong, good or bad, just different.

• 26:26Speaker 01

  Well, yeah.

• 26:26Lewis Howes?

  Appreciated it, you know?

• 26:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I dude, I I agree. I I feel like this is one of those things, it's hard to talk about and see you experience, but I feel like a great relationship makes you a better person.

• 26:38Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 26:39Speaker 01

  You know, and I think this has made me, she's made me, I don't want to say she's made me a better person, because that's not true. It's our relationship has created something between us that has enlarged both of us. Like, we are greater together than the sum of our parts.

• 26:55Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 26:55Speaker 01

  You know what I'm saying?

• 26:56Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure.

• 26:57Speaker 01

  Like, yeah, I think that's, I don't know, I mean, like, you say, like, you're not, you you said earlier, like, you know, it's hard for me to, you know, to find that or whatever, or or to, like, I I worry about these other things and I I dude, I went through that, where it was like, I I really did. I mean, like, as wonderful as Veronica is, I I absolutely had the thoughts where it was like, you know, what if she's not enough, right? Or what if uh she's not hot enough, which is kind of ridiculous if you look at her, but like, or what if, you know, what if she's not smart enough, or what if, whoa, whoa, whoa? And it was like, it was one of those things where it was like, I didn't, I hate people who are like, oh, no, just accept, you know, like, just settle for someone. That's total bullshit.

• 27:35Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 27:36Speaker 01

  I do not think that at all. But at the same time, I it was one of those things where I realized a lot of those anxieties, at least in me, were not about her, they were about me.

• 27:46Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 27:46Speaker 01

  You know what I'm saying? So I was like, I was looking for First off, it was a defense against intimacy. Like, I was looking for flaws in her.

• 27:55Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 27:55Speaker 01

  So I could justify, like, not getting close to her. Because if I'm gonna date, she is a fully expressed human. If I'm gonna date her, I'm gonna have to date her right, you know? Like, there's not gonna be any bullshit. Like, I mean, dude, you know how easy it would be for me to go through my life and date twenty-one-year-olds or twenty-three-year-olds and be so much smarter and so much more sophisticated than them and never really have to engage them or open up emotionally? Like, I could do that without any problem.

• 28:19Lewis Howes?

  You get bored, though.

• 28:20Speaker 01

  Right. Well, because it's not even that I get bored. That's a way of hiding from yourself.

• 28:24Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 28:25Speaker 01

  You know? And with Veronica, she, you can't, I can't hide. Like, she wants to fully engage and have a real relationship. And so if I wanted to date her, I had to do that, too. And that's the thing, is I wanted to, but it's like, it's hard, man. It's, it, it, it, um, it makes you afraid.

• 28:43Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 28:43Speaker 01

  It really does. It makes you afraid because you're very vulnerable. You know, like, if you open your soul to someone, they can leave you, they can hurt you, they can do all these things, and I trust her not to do it, but she could still do it anyway, you know?

• 28:56Lewis Howes?

  And vice versa, you to her. So she's gotta trust you, yeah. What were the, um, I don't know if you've written about this or talked about this, so forgive me if you have, but what were, what was it like growing up for you? Like, what was it like? Your experiences, what were you thinking about most of the time? What were the biggest challenges for you growing up? Because most successful people don't just have it super easy, or it's not just like a cakewalk. There's something, and it doesn't have to be like this sob story, but there's something that's, these make or break moments or defining moments that are like, oh, shit, you know, I gotta step up now. I've gotta do this differently or something. So what was it like? What were you thinking about?

• 29:35Speaker 01

  Um, well, I mean, so sob story aside, the reality is I didn't have very good parents. Uh, they weren't bad people at all. Like, you know, no one, I didn't starve, like, I had clothes, you know? They didn't put anything in my butt or anything like that. There was no, none of that shit, right?

• 29:52Lewis Howes?

  Tucker definitely knows how to make any vulnerable moment a laugh. Anything he's about to say that's vulnerable, it's like, let's make people laugh first.

• 30:01Speaker 01

  Well, it's a good defense.

• 30:02Lewis Howes?

  Of course it is, of course, that's why, you're good at it.

• 30:05Speaker 01

  So, so, uh, basically, my parents were just, like, they were emotionally fucked up people. And as a result, they were bad parents. You know, they weren't bad people, they were just bad, really bad at being parents. Because the thing is, they never really emotionally connected with me in a lot of ways.

• 30:21Lewis Howes?

  Not that they didn't love you.

• 30:22Speaker 01

  They loved me the best they could, they're just not able to love very well. And so, they, they, they just did trade up a shitty job at being parents. And that's just all there is to it, objectively shitty. And, and like, that's, dude, I mean, you, you wanna draw a direct line from why I am the way I am, back to that? You can't.

• 30:38Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 30:39Speaker 01

  Like, why is it so hard for me to be vulnerable and to be trusting and all these sorts? Because I never learned that growing up, you know, I have no analog for that. In fact, like, that sort of thing is very threatening to me in a lot of ways. So that's why I had to spend three years in psychoanalysis and really understand this stuff about myself, face those deep interferers and overcome them and get past them, you know? Um, and then otherwise, man, like, the, I'll tell you, there is an upside to my parents being really shitty. They, the fact that they basically ignored me and basically were really crappy parents, I had to learn how to be self-reliant at an early age. And that has helped me a lot, you know, like, like, it's funny. If, if, if I had to construct my parents, or I had to like, you know, if I had to, um,

• 31:25Speaker 01

  if I got to pick my parents, I would not, I would pick the opposite. I'd pick amazing people who love me, who are like, perfect parents, right? And then, the funny thing is, I wouldn't have these obstacles. And then, by overcoming those obstacles, a lot of that is what's made me who I am.

• 31:38Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, you wouldn't be where you are today without those parents.

• 31:41Speaker 01

  Exactly, like, like, if, if you could read really well, you wouldn't probably be a sick athlete. You wouldn't be so socially skilled as you are.

• 31:48Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 31:48Speaker 01

  Because you would not.

• 31:49Lewis Howes?

  I'd be reading all day.

• 31:50Speaker 01

  Right, exactly.

• 31:51Lewis Howes?

  I'd be smart, reading all day.

• 31:53Speaker 01

  Right, well, you are smart, you just, you had to develop other intelligence.

• 31:56Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 31:57Speaker 01

  You know, we, yeah, we talked about this.

• 31:58Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 31:58Speaker 01

  And we talked about this around our place, like, people always told you were stupid, it's total bullshit. You just weren't smart the way they understood intelligence.

• 32:04Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 32:05Speaker 01

  Exactly, it's totally different, right? Um, so, it's sort of the same thing, like, at no point am I happy with, with who my parents were, but at the same time, it's like, I had the wherewithal and the ability and the luck and everything else, the whole suite of of sort of situations that led to me to overcome this stuff. And then like, that's why when my book, you know, my writing was rejected from everyone in publishing. I was like, fuck it. I'll just do it myself. Right. Whereas if I'd had great parents, I probably just set it aside and said, oh, well, I guess I'm not a writer. I'm gonna go be a doctor or something, you know, which is not bad. It just creates a very different life. You know, you and I are on, you and I are entertainers and educators and have podcasts and write because we've had to overcome obstacles and we had to teach these things to ourselves.

• 32:50Speaker 01

  And so now other people, I think, like, that's why we're interesting to them is because we can talk about them as well, you know?

• 32:55Lewis Howes?

  So where do you think it'd be if you didn't have any obstacles growing up? Or the obstacles that you do have?

• 33:00Speaker 01

  I, dude, I would almost certainly be like a surgeon or I would have like a very high status, high intelligence, normal job.

• 33:07Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 33:08Speaker 01

  You know, like, because I'm not like, I'm obviously a smart dude, but like, why did I pick a path that was so sort of off, like, I picked a really hard path, you know, and, and, and it's not part of it.

• 33:20Lewis Howes?

  It's pay off, though.

• 33:21Speaker 01

  Right, exactly. But it wasn't obvious for a long time this would pay off. And part of the reason I picked this path is because I had to. I was very difficult to deal with as a young kid.

• 33:29Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 33:29Speaker 01

  Uh, you know, even in my early twenties and it was like, you know, I got fired from a lot of jobs. My dad fired me from the family business, you know? So a lot of it is my own fault, but it's like, i- if I was really good at doing the things you're supposed to do in quotes, I would just be like, you know, a lawyer, doctor, you know, I'd be, I'd just be, you know, like, maybe like, whatever, vice president of sales for Time Warner, who fucking knows? It's like some bullshit like that, that's, that it's perfectly fine. I'd make a bunch of money. I'd have a nice, uh, wife, a nice house in the suburbs. I'd have a perfectly happy life. It might not even be boring for me. Like, I know people who do that stuff who really like their lives, right? Most people don't, but not everyone. Some people like that. I might be one of those people.

• 34:11Speaker 01

  But the, the reality is I grew up in a very chaotic, very emotionally turbulent, uncertain. World, you know, at childhood and um and I I like it's like I That's part of why I I think I have to succeed too like I'm driven to succeed is because I got no attention as a kid. I got very little sort of positive feedback and it's like one of those things where There's a lot of ways to react to that. If you're there's a lot of defenses. You can say fuck you. I'm gonna I'm gonna show you how big I'm gonna be. Which is kind of the way I went or you can like Retreat into depression and self destruction or drug addiction or there's lots of ways to deal with that emotional pain. I channeled it in generally positive ways, not totally positive all the time.

• 34:55Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 34:56Speaker 01

  But generally, uh, I may I tried to make something up.

• 35:00Lewis Howes?

  You channel it into a drive and a grit and a hustle that most people don't have.

• 35:04Speaker 01

  Right. But what's funny, man, is what got me there isn't what's getting me here. Like I had to I had to the things that drove me to be great were also things that were sabotaging.

• 35:15Lewis Howes?

  Of course, that's what made you get into all these different, you know, want to sleep with every woman in the world.

• 35:19Speaker 01

  Yep, I I I had to learn how to deal with my emotions like Those things work when you're young and you're hustling and you got nothing to get you over that hump. But once you get over the hump, using the same behaviors actually inhibits you. It's really hard To be successful, to to have the attributes that get you successful and then to also maintain success. It's like two different sets of attributes. You know?

• 35:40Lewis Howes?

  So when you were when you were, you know, before teenage years, How were you coping with things emotionally before you could actually like go and like date women and like drive or go somewhere on your own? What were you doing? Like when your parents were fighting or it was just like messed up night? Like what would you do? Did you have like some little Games you played or hobbies or things or like?

• 36:01Speaker 01

  I read a lot. Um, I like it's funny. You've been in my apartment. Like I have three thousand books in my apartment.

• 36:07Lewis Howes?

  It's a library.

• 36:07Speaker 01

  Right, exactly.

• 36:08Lewis Howes?

  It's amazing. It's awesome.

• 36:09Speaker 01

  It is. Okay, so that's we talked about this in an analysis, like maybe in the first six months of my analysis. Why do I have so many books in my place? And you know, the answer is I love to read, you know, and reading teaches me, et cetera, et cetera. And there's lots of There's rationalizations you can have for that and they're true. All those things are true. I love books. I love reading. But then my mother's kind of pushed me, sort of like the way you are now, like it's the right question. Why do you love to read? Like, why does it, what does that mean to you? And really kind of unpacked it and I realized that as a kid, books were not just an escape from the chaos around me, but books were also the way, my way out, you know? I realized as a kid that everything I'd been through, everyone else had been, someone else had been, right?

• 36:54Speaker 01

  I, I, I'm not, I, nothing I'm gonna do in my life is gonna be, I'm gonna be the first time to experience love, hate, envy, fear, uh, you know, sex, uh, greed, whatever, um, nothing. And if all the answers were out there in books, if I just read enough books and figured out the right books and applied the lessons in the right way, I could figure out all the lessons that my parents were teaching me and I could figure out how to be the things I wanted to be. I just had to do it on my own.

• 37:24Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 37:25Speaker 01

  You know, and so books, that's one of the reasons I have three thousand books in my place is because they have a very important emotional attachment to me. They're sort of, it's like they're my, not control, but they're my way of dealing with life when I have nothing else on my side.

• 37:41Lewis Howes?

  What would you do if you couldn't read books anymore?

• 37:44Speaker 01

  Fuck, I don't know. I don't know. Listen to them on audio? I don't know.

• 37:50Speaker 01

  I'll listen to audiobooks, I guess. I don't know.

• 37:53Lewis Howes?

  But is there like a therapeutic, uh, you know, reaction for you when you sit down and open up the book and read it? And, and as opposed to just listening to a book or, you know?

• 38:02Speaker 01

  No, no, no, reading itself is not therapeutic to me.

• 38:05Lewis Howes?

  Got you.

• 38:06Speaker 01

  I think it's hav- having the books around makes me feel very, I mean, because think about it, dude, I could, I could have all these books on Kindle.

• 38:13Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 38:14Speaker 01

  But I don't, I have physical copies all over my apartment and it's not showing off. These aren't like rich leather bound tomes, I'm trying to look cool. They're actual books that I actually read. I think it's having them around makes me feel like I can solve any problem.

• 38:28Lewis Howes?

  Encyclopedia of everything.

• 38:30Speaker 01

  Right. It's like the the answers are out there and even though I can't get them from my parents, I can get them from somewhere. Actually, a part of it is a defense, I think, like not having to rely on other people because that's something I learned early on from having shitty parents is is not to rely on people close to you.

• 38:45Lewis Howes?

  And that's so become as smart as possible and know everything. So you don't have to rely on anyone for answers.

• 38:50Speaker 01

  Okay, that's great, except it doesn't work in relationships.

• 38:54Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 38:55Speaker 01

  It doesn't work. I mean, close, close romantic relationships.

• 38:58Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 38:58Speaker 01

  And that's literally what I'm in the middle of working through with sort of my my analyst and with Veronica is like, and she's she's so patient. She totally gets it. She understands like so much of what she values about me also comes with these negative sides and she understands like I've got to work through this stuff and she's super helpful about it and she's very compassionate about it. And like, I can talk about it with her and she's really smart. She gets it, you know? And so it's like, I can overcome these issues. I just kind of have you be not basically, you literally have to rewire rewire your brain. You have to train your brain to think with different and different patterns.

• 39:35Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, because 30 plus year 30 plus years of a habit of of default habits and now you've got to change it to something completely different in order for a relationship to work.

• 39:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, that on a neurological level, that's actually literally how it works.

• 39:47Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, which is not easy. But once you retrain your mind, it's and you you stay consistent with it and then it becomes easier. What is what is the biggest lesson you've learned about yourself while being in this in this type of relationship with your girlfriend? Like, what's the biggest thing you've learned so far? And maybe it's a couple, but what's something that comes to mind?

• 40:08Speaker 01

  Man, that's a good question. The biggest thing I've learned, um,

• 40:15Speaker 01

  you know, honestly, the the I said, the thing that I've learned the most is how to um, how to be expressive and care about how to think about someone else's needs. Right, I wasn't super, I I was never like a clinical full on narcissist. But I always had very narcissistic behaviors, you know? Like it's not that I didn't care about anyone else, I just didn't think about anyone else, you know?

• 40:39Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 40:39Speaker 01

  Because I mean, like when you grow up basically alone, only thinking about yourself, you know, I'm an only child. Parents are never there, my parents got divorced when I was like a year and a half, my mom was a flight attendant, like Jesus Christ dude, like I was. I mean, like I ba- I was basically a feral child, you know? A- a- and so like, understanding the thoughts, needs, desires of other people, especially the unstated ones is not, it's a very difficult thing for me. And there are quite a few times in our relationship, we'll all do something, and our uncle will be like, what the fuck? I'm like, what, what's wrong? Like, I I don't even know what she's upset about. And she's like, like, she, you know, like, is pretty pissed off. But at the same time, she she's pretty patient with me because she understands, like, okay, he doesn't get it. But there are times where like, she needs something from me.

• 41:21Speaker 01

  And someone who, you know, grew up with nor- in a normal family, or or brothers and sisters, or was good at relationships. Will know that intuitively. I don't know most of those things intuitively, so I've had to learn how to like. Um, I I've learned, I had to learn how to understand people. And I mean, I'm really good at understanding people in sort of like, okay, I wanna like. Whatever, read this person for this negotiation, like, like if you and I were in a negotiation across the table. Dude, I can read you like a fucking book, no problem. But that's totally different than being in a relationship, totally different, totally different. And so like, I I'm very bad at that. At at at understanding people and reading people in the midst of.

• 42:05Speaker 01

  A connected intimate relationship, and that's the thing I've learned the most. Is how to do that, like how to think about her, how to think about uh what she cares about, and how to adjust my behavior so that like. Um, I I I'm considering her, not just myself.

• 42:22Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 42:23Speaker 01

  You know?

• 42:23Lewis Howes?

  Man, I could talk about this stuff for hours with you, and I really appreciate you, you know, opening up about this, but um. I really want to acknowledge you for. Everything you are up to right now, not just with like the business and the book stuff and. You know, the podcast and all the, you know, all the amazing things that you're known for, but really for. Uh, and and you know, not trying to get sappy, I should probably swear really quickly to make a defense mechanism, but really for. Like, just for fucking stepping up as a man, the way you have been stepping up. And again, it's a journey. It's a journey that I'm on, that you're on, we're all on. But the way you've been doing it, I really acknowledge you for the courage that it takes. Uh, because I know how scary it is.

• 43:08Lewis Howes?

  And I acknowledge you for, you know, everything you're up to in life and how you, you really care for people. You know, when I go stay at your place, whenever we get to hang out, you know, once, twice a year, whatever it is. You really care and it shows and I really appreciate that about you. And uh, it, it just means so much to know you. It means so much for me to know you and know how big of a game you're up to in the world and how you're really impacting a lot of people. So I really, I really appreciate you for everything you're doing.

• 43:38Speaker 01

  Thank you, man. Thank you, dude. You, you're gonna ruin my reputation now.

• 43:41Lewis Howes?

  I know, I know, right?

• 43:43Speaker 01

  People might start liking me after this podcast.

• 43:46Lewis Howes?

  I know. Well, I think it's uh, you know, I'm, the reason why it's like flown by for me so in this podcast is because it's like, we're, you're talking for real. You're like just sharing openly and vulnerably and it's so interesting for me to listen to. And obviously we've had this conversation before, but it's just, it's really engaging and fun. And I think a lot of people are gonna enjoy this. So, um, I'm gonna have to have you come back on sometime, but uh,

• 44:09Speaker 01

  Anytime, brother. I'd be happy.

• 44:10Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I'd love to. The, the next, the next book you come out with, we'll, uh, we'll talk more about the relationship stuff instead. So, um, to go into the last question, which is what I ask everyone on the podcast before we wrap up is uh, what is your definition of greatness?

• 44:25Speaker 01

  What is my definition of greatness? Um, I think doing something that matters for other people. You know, like if, if you can, if you can create things or do something that matters, that creates value for other people, that makes you great, you know? So like I, I would, anyone, um, Anyone, I mean, take a business example, Uber. Uber like is better, is great for everyone on earth except taxicab companies. And fuck those, fuck those people, right? That's, so Travis might not be a great guy, but that's a great thing, you know? Um, you know, if you help people understand things better, if you provide them a service that makes their

• 45:07Speaker 01

  life better, if you provide, you know, if you make food, if you, whatever, anything, anything that makes the real lives of real people better, I, to me, that's what's great.

• 45:18Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 45:18Speaker 01

  You know? Like, that's why I don't consider Alexander the Great, great. All that dude would, he, all he did was kill a bunch of people.

• 45:25Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 45:26Speaker 01

  You know, he didn't, he made, he made his life great.

• 45:28Lewis Howes?

  Right. Right, well, there you go. I appreciate it, man. Where are, uh, where can we, where should we connect with you? Are you still promoting TuckerMax.com? Or is it, uh, is there somewhere else where we can really find you and stay connected online?

• 45:42Speaker 01

  Uh, so the, the best place is actually probably TuckerMax.me. That's sort of the blog that I put up after I retired from Frat Tire to kind of handle the stuff I'm doing afterwards.

• 45:50Lewis Howes?

  Gotcha.

• 45:51Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, that's, I, I put stuff there or just go to Bookstrapper if you care about the book stuff. If you don't, then, uh, don't pay attention because it's worthless.

• 45:59Lewis Howes?

  No problem. We'll have it all linked up over in the show notes and this will be a two-part series. So again, Tucker, it's a, it's a pleasure, man. I really appreciate you sharing and opening up and, uh, giving us your wisdom on the podcast.

• 46:11Speaker 01

  It's my pleasure, man. Anytime. Thank you very much, dude. This is a great, this is a great podcast.

• 46:15Lewis Howes?

  Thanks, brother. I appreciate you.

• 46:32Lewis Howes?

  And there you have it, guys. I hope you enjoyed this episode and a big shout out and thank you to Tucker for being so open and, uh, sharing with us all of his, uh, past experience, information and kind of what he's up to now. I think it takes a lot for someone to, to talk about it all so openly. So thank you again, Tucker, for that. Big shout out to you, my man. I appreciate your friendship. And if you guys enjoyed this episode, please share it with your friends. Over on Twitter and Facebook, Google Plus, post a picture on Instagram where you are listening to the show and just give me a tag @lewishouse or hashtag #schoolofgreatness. And I appreciate you guys. If you have yet to leave a review over on iTunes, please do. That supports the growth of the show and gets the show out there to more people. So if you

• 47:15Lewis Howes?

  love this show, if you listen to every episode, if you listen to multiple episodes over and over and over again, then please leave a review if you have yet to leave one. It would support me so much. So thank you guys for all that you do, for sharing, for promoting, for spreading the word about the School of Greatness. You guys know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.