Caller: “My Wife Doesn’t Want My Parents at Christmas”

❤️ Preorder Building the Marriage You Want today and get $100+ in bonus items. On today’s episode, we hear about: A man torn between what his wife wants and his family relationships A woman struggling to convince her mom to move out of her unsafe house A dad wondering if his son’s behavior is his fault Next Steps: 💬 Get the free Conflict Game Plan by Dr. John Delony. 📋 Get on the same page before the week begins. Download Dr. John Delony’s free weekly marriage check-in. 🔥 Microhabits for a better marriage. Download the Together app. ❤️Join Dr. John Delony at Money & Marriage Getaway 📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or send us a message. 📚 Building a Non-Anxious Life 📝 Anxiety Test 📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards 💭 John’s Free Guided Meditation 🤘🏼 The Dr. John Delony Show Merch Episode Chapters: 00:00:00 Intro 00:02:08 My Wife and I Can’t Agree on the Holidays 00:18:41 My Mom’s House Could Kill Her 00:33:14 I Don’t Like Being Around My Son Connect With Our Sponsors: Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp. Go to Capstone Wellness to learn more. Get up to 20% off with code DELONY at Cozy Earth. Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. Visit Hallow for a 90-day free trial. Visit Helix Sleep for special offers! Go to Joi + Blokes and get 65% off labs and 20% off products. Working knives for working people—go to Montana Knife Company to see what’s available now! Explore Poncho Outdoors! Get 25% off your order at Thorne. Visit Zander Insurance or call 1-800-356-4282 for your free instant quote today. Explore More From Ramsey Network: 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💰 George Kamel 📈 EntreLeadership Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Dr. John Delony?

  Brought to you by my friends at Churchill Mortgage. If you're looking to buy or refinance, check them out. I've used Churchill and they are great. Go to churchillmortgage.com.

• 0:15Speaker 01

  I have two kids from a previous relationship and I'm trying to find a way to navigate the holidays between my wife and her family and my parents.

• 0:28Dr. John Delony?

  Here are some places my wife and I have landed and then I'll give you the most important thing at the very end.

• 0:39Dr. John Delony?

  What up, what up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. I'm so grateful that you are here with us. Listen, I'm super hyped. My brand new book, Building the Marriage You Want, answers two questions. Is marriage still worth it? In the 21st century, with all the changes, all the access, all the different support mechanisms, is marriage still worth it? And if so, how do you do it? It's years of me pulling all of my personal conversations, research, time spent with individuals and couples and my own marriage story, putting it all together. This is, this is my, the period of the end of the sentence for me when it comes to marriage. This will be the last marriage book you ever have to buy.

• 1:21Dr. John Delony?

  It'd be great for, if you, if you're like engaged, awesome. If you've been married for 50 years, awesome. This is the book for you, Building the Marriage You Want. It's on preorder right now. You can go to ramsaysolutions.com/store or click the link in the show notes. And if you preorder it now, I'll send you the audiobook and I'll send you early access to the electronic edition and I'll send you a version of a talk I gave at the Money Marriage Retreat on marriage communication. All that, just for helping me out. I know you're, I'm asking you to send me money before I send you the book. It just makes such a huge difference when it comes to all, getting the book out to as many people as possible. So if you preorder it, it's a huge deal for me. It's just, it's a, it's you blessing me. So it'd be awesome.

• 2:06Dr. John Delony?

  $24.99, click the link in the show notes. Let's go out to Orlando, Florida and talk to Dan. What's up, Dan?

• 2:13Speaker 01

  Hey, Dr. John, how's it going?

• 2:15Dr. John Delony?

  I'm good, brother. What's up with you, man?

• 2:17Speaker 01

  Not too bad, man. Just dealing with that hot Florida weather.

• 2:21Dr. John Delony?

  Yo, it is out of this world hot in Tennessee right now. It's wild, man.

• 2:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I just moved into a new house about a year ago and the AC is already struggling. So I get it.

• 2:32Dr. John Delony?

  Man, well, so what's going on, brother?

• 2:35Speaker 01

  Well, I wanted to get your input on how I can handle kind of the holidays. So a little backstory is I have two kids from a previous relationship and I remarried. She's been their stepmom for a good portion of their life. And I'm trying to find a way to navigate the holidays between my wife and her family and my parents. So my parents are very traditional Hispanic. They love, you know, that whole big family, let's all get together. They'll sleep all in the same room if you could.

• 3:15Speaker 01

  And on the other hand, my wife has been involved in pretty much every holiday going to my parents' events. And so this year, she wants to do something kind of with just her side of the family. And I'm trying to navigate how to kind of go about that without hurting anybody's feelings, kind of respecting her boundaries, but also considering my parents, they're also elderly. And I feel guilty not including them. So, yeah.

• 3:48Dr. John Delony?

  That's quite the pickle, dude.

• 3:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:54Dr. John Delony?

  Give me a, give me a geographical distance.

• 3:59Speaker 01

  Well, we, we're all in Florida, but her side of the family is pretty much closer to us, about like a 40 minute drive from us. And then my parents are about like a three hour drive. So it's not huge, but you know, there's, there's like going out of the state plans and whatnot that are more reserved to just her side of the family.

• 4:20Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. So I, I have been through every version of this in my own house. And so what I want to tell you is after 24 years of navigating this, here are some places my wife and I have landed and then I'll give you the most important thing at the very end. Is that cool?

• 4:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:43Dr. John Delony?

  My wife and I have done everything with varying degrees of success.

• 4:49Dr. John Delony?

  There's been times that she, her parents are aging, she's taken our kids and she's gone to visit them without me. And they've had a blast. And I've been sad at home. Sometimes I'm working, sometimes I'm on the road and I've been sad that I missed out. Sometimes I didn't have it in me to travel across the country, knowing what I would have to come back to when it comes to home stuff, work stuff, whatever, responsibilities. And so there's a picture where you go, y'all spend time with her family this year. Y'all have never done that before. Y'all spend time, and I think that's right and I think that's fair for there to be some sort of alternating time and schedule. And also, it's three hours away.

• 5:34Dr. John Delony?

  You tell her, hey, I'm going to take the kids and we're going to go visit grandma and grandpa and we're going to hang out for a day and we're going to come back in the morning. And then she gets to either feel super relieved or she gets to feel guilty, well, I want us all together and that's cool, totally get it. And we're going to go spend time with your family and I love that. But it's a big deal to me that my kids have a relationship with their grandparents.

• 6:01Speaker 01

  Right.

• 6:01Dr. John Delony?

  And so free her from that.

• 6:04Dr. John Delony?

  There could be a conversation with your parents, which may be long overdue, which is we alternate every other year, we do Christmas. And at some point, your wife's going to rightfully push back on who's in control of your life. Is your life being co-created by you and your wife or is your life still being drug around by what your parents want?

• 6:25Speaker 01

  Definitely.

• 6:26Dr. John Delony?

  And I also know, that's real easy to say, and culture matters.

• 6:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:34Dr. John Delony?

  And to just blow it off and be like, no, culture doesn't matter. It does. And there's something beautiful and chaotic and maddening and frustrating and awesome about the big annual family get together. Right?

• 6:50Speaker 01

  Definitely.

• 6:51Dr. John Delony?

  And so it's, I guess the thing I want to, there's two things I want you to walk away with. Give up the idea that y'all are going to solve this once and for all and make, make it a part of your rhythm. And by the way, you're, you're calling, it's the middle of September. It's, we're getting towards the end of September when you and I are taking this call.

• 7:11Dr. John Delony?

  Dude, you are so freaking far ahead of where most couples are. I'm proud of you. I'm so, dude, like me and my wife, I think we're kind of gangsters because we plan what we're going to do in September and we tell all of our family, here's what our holiday travel is going to look like and everything. And, but most of our friends look at us like we have seven heads. They're like, you already what? We'll think about Thanksgiving the week before. You guys are already ahead, so congratulations for being way ahead. That's awesome. But plan for it to be every year is going to be different and not trying to solve it once and for all.

• 7:45Speaker 01

  Right.

• 7:45Dr. John Delony?

  And so get that out of the way. And the, the second thing I would tell you is if it becomes this sense of I get one and you get one, then you and your wife are going to find each other on opposite sides of a tennis court and it's going to be you versus her and that will always end in collapse.

• 8:08Speaker 01

  Right.

• 8:09Dr. John Delony?

  So the most effective way me and my wife have handled this over the years and that I've heard back from people after I teach this is swipe the deck clean and start actually with January 1st.

• 8:23Dr. John Delony?

  How do we as a couple want to feel January 1st based on what we did in November and December? How we traveled, how we spent money, how we ate, how we did or didn't exercise, how we went fishing, how we, whatever. When we're sitting here at the house, January 1st, how do we want to feel? And what must be true for the, the rest of it? You hear what I'm saying?

• 8:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, definitely. I do have a follow-up though.

• 8:50Dr. John Delony?

  Rip it.

• 8:51Speaker 01

  So where I stand now and where I kind of have been standing on the matter is that I feel like it's only fair that I do give my wife the respect and acknowledgement that she has been more willing to kind of give up her end of the deal, if you want to call it that. And so I do feel like it would be okay and fair, as you mentioned earlier, to give her this holiday season. And, but, but the big thing, I guess for me is navigating the fact that that conversation that may be long overdue with my parents is kind of something that I've been dreading to a certain extent because on top of just the culture.

• 9:32Dr. John Delony?

  Go right through it.

• 9:33Speaker 01

  Right, right, right. Yeah, but just they, they're very, I guess they can fall into this like catastrophizing and guilt trip.

• 9:42Dr. John Delony?

  Of course.

• 9:43Speaker 01

  Situation.

• 9:44Dr. John Delony?

  They're your parents, that's their job.

• 9:47Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 9:47Dr. John Delony?

  Their job, like reframe it. You can say they're, they are demanding and narcissistic. You can put all these internet labels on them. Or you can say, my freaking parents love me and my wife and their grandkids so much that they'll just sit there and sob in front of me if I take away time.

• 10:07Speaker 01

  Right.

• 10:08Dr. John Delony?

  And that's their job, is to be sad that their son's not around. Or forget you, that their grandkids aren't around.

• 10:16Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 10:17Dr. John Delony?

  You, you trying to do the right thing and make sure everybody out there in second, third order effects, that their feelings are okay too, that's impossible task. And it paralyzes you.

• 10:31Speaker 01

  A hundred percent.

• 10:32Dr. John Delony?

  So the path forward is to sit down with your mom and your dad, preferably in person. They're three hours away. If you can make a weekend trip with the grandkids, that'd be awesome. But if not, call them and say, this is a hard conversation, mom, but for the first time, I'm, I am, I am going to do Christmas with my wife's family this year.

• 10:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:53Dr. John Delony?

  Here is when we are going to be able to come down and visit, but we are going to miss the big gathering because we're going to do Christmas Eve with my wife's parents this year.

• 11:04Speaker 01

  Right.

• 11:05Dr. John Delony?

  Period. Stop talking after that.

• 11:09Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 11:10Dr. John Delony?

  You know what I'm saying? It's a declaration. It's not a, well, she really wants to. No, no, I am. These are my parents. I am the husband here. I'm saying, here's what I'm choosing to do because I'm a grown man.

• 11:22Speaker 01

  Right.

• 11:23Dr. John Delony?

  And I'm willing to take the consequences of having my parents be dramatic and histrionic and cry and wail and say, you don't love us. And what if we never see you again? You're going to kill your dad. Like all those things. You get to say those things.

• 11:37Speaker 01

  Right.

• 11:39Dr. John Delony?

  All right. And by the way, they're going to say those things anyway about something you do this holiday season, right? It's coming anyway.

• 11:44Speaker 01

  I'm sure they already have.

• 11:47Dr. John Delony?

  Of course.

• 11:49Speaker 01

  You know how they, they love to gossip and the Hispanic people tend to gossip a lot. So I get it. Yeah. But, but I will, I will do what you said.

• 11:56Dr. John Delony?

  If you and I were hanging out, we would have a different conversation, but I'm on the air now. So I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna let you say what you want to say, brother.

• 12:04Speaker 01

  Appreciate it.

• 12:05Dr. John Delony?

  No, I, I, I, it sounds like your parents love you and man, um, I've, I've got family in that culture. Like I, I get it. I get it. I get it. I get it. And I love it and it will take everything that you give it. Right?

• 12:24Speaker 01

  Definitely.

• 12:25Dr. John Delony?

  And so the, the, just the tricky thing you have to navigate. And by the way, the tricky thing that your wife chose to marry into.

• 12:32Speaker 01

  Right.

• 12:33Dr. John Delony?

  Is a big giant Mexican family and marry into somebody who's got two kids by another family.

• 12:40Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 12:41Dr. John Delony?

  She opted into this, so it's not going to always be perfect. And it sounds like she hasn't always demanded it be perfect.

• 12:48Speaker 01

  No, she's been great with it. She's, she's rolled with the punches.

• 12:51Dr. John Delony?

  That's awesome. And so let's swipe the deck clean and say, how do we want our home and our marriage to feel January 1? And let's, and she might say, dude, every year after Christmas, I, I don't want to see anybody, talk to anybody. I'm spent. I'm burned out. I'm fried. I'm cooked. I'm, I don't want that this year. Awesome.

• 13:08Dr. John Delony?

  Let's go do Christmas with your family and the day after that, I'm going to pile the kids in the car. We're going to drive down and see our family just for 24 or 48 hours. You stay at home, relax, do whatever you go to the spa. I'll get you a spa thing for Christmas, like whatever you want to do. I'm gonna go do this. I'm gonna go take them down there. And then if she says, I don't want you going without me. Well, y'all need to have that conversation because then she's putting you in a bind. Which is, I want to honor and love my parents and I also want to love and honor you. But you're asking me to love and honor you by not loving and honoring them. And that puts you in a pretty awkward position. I'd rather her feel the, ah, I feel like I should be there, but I just can't this year. I'm, I'm spent this year. Awesome. I'm going to go though.

• 13:50Dr. John Delony?

  Or maybe this is the year you don't go, but you tell your parents, I'll be there in January, mid-January. I'm going to load up on a Saturday morning and I'm bringing the kids down and we're going to spend all day and I'll drive back at midnight. You get to choose those kinds of things, but let's swipe the deck clean. Every year, we're going to swipe the deck clean, August, September and say, okay, what is the fall projecting for us? Financially, time wise, chaos wise, family wise, aging parents wise, what does it all look like? And how can we best love each other so that we can love our extended families the best? So thanks for your call, brother. Great, great, great questions.

• 14:28Dr. John Delony?

  Tattoo these two things on your heart. Change it every year. You're in the driver's seat and you cannot control everybody's second and third order responses. Their feelings to what you do that's right for you and your family in this season. So do the right thing. Go right through the middle of hard conversations. The sooner you have them, the more direct you have them, the clearer you have them, the faster you can get to some sort of resolution. Thanks for the call, brother. When we come back, a woman asks how to convince her mom to leave her unsafe, unfinished home. We'll be right back.

• 15:05Dr. John Delony?

  All right, everyone. Summer is over. I hope you had a great one. I hope you went on a vacation. I hope you took the time to slow down and relax because now we're back to real life. Full overwhelming calendars, kids, school activities, racing around all over. But listen, what if there was a way you could keep that vacation going a little bit every day? There is Cozy Earth. Their bamboo sheets are like the most comfortable hotel bed you've ever slept in. Except way more comfortable than that. They're breathable. They're so good at regulating your temperature. No more kicking off the covers at 2:00 AM and Cozy Earth towels make you feel like you're at the spa.

• 15:46Dr. John Delony?

  Except it's just an ordinary Tuesday. It's at your house. My house has Cozy Earth everywhere. They offer a hundred night sleep trial on all of their bedding and a 10 year warranty on all of their products. If you're not completely blown away, you can just return them. But listen, you are going to be completely blown away and you're not going to return nothing. You can't stay on a permanent vacation, but you can bring a little bit of vacation home with you every single day. Go to cozylearth.com/deloney and use code deloney for up to 20% off your entire order. That's cozylearth.com/deloney. Use code deloney. And don't forget to take their post purchase survey and let Cozy Earth know you heard about their amazing gear right here on this show.

• 16:31Dr. John Delony?

  This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Every year you tell yourself you're going to handle this year's holidays differently. You're going to stay calmer. You're going to feel more peace. But then the same old patterns show up, the same family tensions, the same challenges you have to keeping healthy boundaries. And you find yourself cranky and tired and even snapping at people that you love. Listen, this year can be different. You still have time to get ahead of all of the chaos and understand what's behind your reactions. And you can develop a plan for moving through the holidays with peace. Therapy can help you build this healthier plan before you actually need it. When you're ready to have that conversation, check out BetterHelp.

• 17:14Dr. John Delony?

  BetterHelp is an online therapy platform with more than 30,000 licensed therapists across its network. This means you can find someone who can help you feel more peaceful this holiday season, help you develop a plan, or help you with whatever your needs and goals are. If the first therapist isn't the right fit, you can switch at any time for no extra cost. If you thought about trying therapy with BetterHelp, insurance options may now be available nationwide through participating providers. And eligible members have an average copay of just 23 bucks a session. Listen, you know what's coming. This year you have time to keep calm ahead of all of the holiday chaos by preparing differently. Go to betterhelp.com/deloney to check out your payment options.

• 17:59Dr. John Delony?

  That's betterhelp, H E L P, dot com slash deloney, or click the link in the description.

• 18:07Dr. John Delony?

  All right. Hit all the subscribe, share buttons and listen, I have created the conflict framework. I've writ, wrote it down for you. I get so many DMs and emails for it. I've written it down. Click the link in the show notes. It will give you the PDF. This is how to actually solve a problem in your marriage. Not to talk about it forever, not to go to war together, but how to sit down and say, here's what I'm experiencing. Here's the stories I'm making up and here's what I would like to be different in our home. Click the link in the show notes for the connected conflict framework. Let's go to New York City, New York and talk to Sally. What's up Sally?

• 18:45Speaker 02

  Hi, how are you, Dr. John?

• 18:46Dr. John Delony?

  I'm all right, sister. How are you?

• 18:49Speaker 02

  Good. Thank you so much for taking my call today.

• 18:51Dr. John Delony?

  You got it. What's going on?

• 18:53Speaker 02

  So my mom is living in a house that's essentially unsafe and I worry about her every single day. I don't know how to get through to her to get her into a safer environment.

• 19:08Dr. John Delony?

  Tell me about her home.

• 19:11Speaker 02

  So basically she and my dad, um, built a house kind of on the outskirts of town when they were in their twenties. And they did everything kind of under the books. They did nothing by code. They did everything by hand. Um, so this is kind of a patchwork house.

• 19:31Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 19:31Speaker 02

  Um, long story short, she and my dad got a divorce and the house never got finished. It is now almost 20 years later and she's still living there.

• 19:42Dr. John Delony?

  How old is she?

• 19:44Speaker 02

  She's 43.

• 19:46Dr. John Delony?

  43.

• 19:47Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 19:55Dr. John Delony?

  How old are you?

• 19:56Speaker 02

  I'm 22.

• 19:57Dr. John Delony?

  22. Don't say that with an apology. That's awesome. I'm 22. No, that's great. Um, I love that you're worried about your mom. What else is going on in your mom's life?

• 20:12Speaker 02

  Well, to be quite honest, she, I have two younger sisters and she's not really close with any of us because she seems to, she's isolated herself out at that home. And, um, it's been really hard. We haven't lived with her in probably 10, 12 years just because it's unsafe. So she's just kind of out there by herself. Um, she doesn't really have any family around. She, I mean, she goes to work every day. It's not a job that she loves, but that's pretty much her whole life right now is just trying to get that house put together.

• 20:49Dr. John Delony?

  When you've talked to her in the past about getting to a safer place, how's that conversation gone?

• 20:55Speaker 02

  It usually ends with her saying she's never, ever, ever going to give up on that home because it's the one and only thing that she has that's fully hers. And, um, it's a lot of, you will understand this when you're older. Um, yeah, that's, there's basically, it's hard to convince her to do anything else.

• 21:19Dr. John Delony?

  Is there a possibility that this nashing, this, this, this flashing neon sign in your mind that says unsafe home, unsafe home, that you worry about every day?

• 21:33Dr. John Delony?

  Could it be that that flashing sign is actually connected to a different alarm? And that alarm is, I miss my mom?

• 21:44Speaker 02

  I don't think so because I, I genuinely worry in my sleep that this house is going to collapse on her. Um, the last time I was out there, uh, the floor was kind of caving in, in the middle. It has no foundation right now. So that's kind of the main thing she's working on right now is trying to get a foundation, um, put into place. But she's doing it all herself. So there's again, the worry that she's going to climb under this house by herself and get crushed or something. So I genuinely just worry for her physical safety right now.

• 22:18Dr. John Delony?

  Do you worry enough to call the city?

• 22:22Speaker 02

  I don't know what-

• 22:24Dr. John Delony?

  To do a welfare check?

• 22:25Speaker 02

  How that would go.

• 22:28Speaker 02

  I feel like if I did that, they would for sure see that it is unsafe. And I'm, I'm worried how that will end up. I worry if that will put her on the street or how that might go.

• 22:42Dr. John Delony?

  I know, but I, and I'm, I'm pushing you because you've trapped yourself. I'm trying to, I want you to see that the, the cage you're in, the locks on the inside. Okay? What you want to have happen is there to be some magical conversation between you and your mom where she goes, oh, you're right. You're right. And that conversation will never, ever, ever happen.

• 23:07Speaker 02

  Right. So do you think I should call?

• 23:09Dr. John Delony?

  I, I, I'm not, I would. If, and that's where I'm, I, I want to pull the thread on the worry. If you are worried that somebody is physically in unsafe, they're in harm's way.

• 23:25Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 23:25Dr. John Delony?

  I'll call everybody. I just had a conversation with somebody recently, um, uh, who had a coworker who was suicidal. And I was like, they're like, man, we don't, we don't know what to do. I was like, I'll tell you exactly what to do. Call everybody, everybody.

• 23:43Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 23:43Dr. John Delony?

  Right? And so, because there's, there's imminent danger there.

• 23:47Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm. Yep.

• 23:48Dr. John Delony?

  And so if you are legitimately worried that this house is going to collapse on your 43-year-old mother.

• 23:55Speaker 02

  Right.

• 23:57Dr. John Delony?

  Let's do a, an uncomfortable thought experiment.

• 24:00Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 24:01Dr. John Delony?

  Tomorrow, this house does collapse on your mom or she's trying to dig out her own footers.

• 24:08Dr. John Delony?

  And when the city's out there, they're like, my God, if we'd known, we would have condemned this house and put your mom in an apartment.

• 24:16Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm. Yep. Okay. I think I need to call. Mm-hmm.

• 24:20Dr. John Delony?

  And you taking a hard stand, I always tell folks, and I'm, I'm, I'm bringing up suicidality because it's such an extreme thing. I've told more people than I can possibly count. I would love for you to hate me in 10 years and still be alive to hate me.

• 24:36Speaker 02

  Right.

• 24:36Dr. John Delony?

  I'm willing to risk my friendship, my relationship with you for your safety and your being alive.

• 24:43Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 24:44Dr. John Delony?

  And so similarly, your mom may never talk to you again.

• 24:49Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 24:52Dr. John Delony?

  And that might be the price to pay for saving her life.

• 24:56Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 24:56Dr. John Delony?

  And that's a sad price to pay. It's a heartbreaking, devastating price to pay. But in my, in my accounting, that's a, that's a, that's a worthy price to pay. It might be that your mom is forced to come move in with you.

• 25:12Dr. John Delony?

  Or you, you choose to allow her to live with you.

• 25:17Dr. John Delony?

  Because she's going to be on the street. She can't afford rent. I don't know how much her work pays. I'm doubting this home is insured.

• 25:25Speaker 02

  Right. So she's putting all of the money that she makes right now into just building this home. So sometimes she'll even ask me for, hey, do you have 20 bucks? Because she doesn't have enough money for food because she's putting all the money into the house.

• 25:40Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. And it may be that she's got some sort of, uh, psychological attachment to this place that has gone pathological.

• 25:48Speaker 02

  I think so. Yep.

• 25:49Dr. John Delony?

  And it may be the greatest gift ever is that, is that somebody can take this. But she's going to need a lot of support because wrapped up in the, in the wood and nails and sagging floorboard of this house is dreams of a marriage. Her relationships with her daughters that are not what it should be. Her picture of her life, and it's all tangled up in there.

• 26:13Speaker 02

  Yep. I'm just worried that if I do that, she won't have the support that she needs and we could be looking at a bigger issue, um, mentally.

• 26:23Dr. John Delony?

  I think I would 100% prepare for that. And if somebody goes out there and does a welfare check on her and sees that she's not psychologically well, hopefully there's, I know in New York, there's resources upon resources upon resources. Um, sometimes it's harder outside of town or out in further and further rural areas. It can be a nightmare trying to get support and resources of that kind.

• 26:45Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 26:46Dr. John Delony?

  But again, those are second and third orders. Right now, if you're telling me that she might be dead by the end of the week because the house collapses on her, I'm making that call right this second.

• 26:57Speaker 02

  Okay. Mm-hmm.

• 26:59Dr. John Delony?

  If you're looking at a 20-year-old house, the floor is kind of caving in and it's just, ugh. But the house is not going anywhere. It's annoying. It's unsafe and I'm worried about her. But she's 43. She still gets around okay. Like, that, that, that's up to you. You have to be the person who makes this final decision because I want you to own the weight of what you choose to do next.

• 27:20Speaker 02

  Okay. Mm-hmm.

• 27:23Dr. John Delony?

  Is that fair?

• 27:24Speaker 02

  It's fair. Yep.

• 27:27Dr. John Delony?

  Thank you for loving your mom, especially when it's hard.

• 27:30Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 27:34Dr. John Delony?

  How young, how, how old are your sisters?

• 27:37Speaker 02

  Um, 17 and 20.

• 27:41Dr. John Delony?

  So you play a mom role for them too?

• 27:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:44Dr. John Delony?

  Where do they live?

• 27:46Speaker 02

  Um, so my 17-year-old sister, she's living with my dad and my stepmom. Um, and my other sister is away at college right now. So she's living in another city.

• 27:59Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 28:02Dr. John Delony?

  And where do you live?

• 28:04Speaker 02

  I live right close to my mom, probably an hour drive away from her.

• 28:08Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 28:11Dr. John Delony?

  And are you working full-time?

• 28:13Speaker 02

  I am. Yep. I have my own business.

• 28:16Dr. John Delony?

  Good. Congratulations.

• 28:17Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 28:18Dr. John Delony?

  I, I'm just trying to think logistically, what happens if your mom needs a place to live?

• 28:23Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm. I don't think I could have her live with me because, um, we just, we have a really, really bad relationship. Um, she, I really, I genuinely think I'm her least favorite daughter because I tell her how things are and I don't sugarcoat things. And so I don't think that that would be good for my own sanity if she lived with me.

• 28:48Dr. John Delony?

  Sure.

• 28:51Dr. John Delony?

  Well, you've got some hard choices ahead. Are you okay?

• 28:54Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 28:56Dr. John Delony?

  And I don't envy you making these hard choices, especially with somebody like your mom. What, what does your dad say about all this, by the way?

• 29:04Speaker 02

  He kind of just takes a backseat on it all and shakes his head. Um, I think he closed the door on her after they divorced. I don't think he wants to have, I mean, they don't talk. They don't co-parent. They never have.

• 29:19Dr. John Delony?

  I get that. But you're his daughter.

• 29:21Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 29:22Dr. John Delony?

  And so he may not have any feelings or want anything to do with her. But there's another adult out there that's devastating his 22-year-old daughter. Does he have no interest in helping you?

• 29:35Speaker 02

  Real, honestly, no. He just kind of takes a backseat.

• 29:39Dr. John Delony?

  Have you looked at him and said, Dad, I need some guidance and some wisdom here?

• 29:45Speaker 02

  He, he just hits me with the, I don't know, this is the same old.

• 29:52Dr. John Delony?

  Gosh, man, I hate that. I hate that for you. That's just such abject cowardice to be like, yep, I got out. Good luck, daughter. Best of luck to my other, my three daughters.

• 30:07Dr. John Delony?

  Man, that is just cowardice at a level it's hard to, for me to wrap my head around, but anyway, can't think about it. So yeah, you've got to make some big scary grown up decisions at 22. And the, the weight room of life, the squat rack that you're under is about to get super, super heavy. And so here's some of the choices you're gonna have to make.

• 30:28Dr. John Delony?

  Does this woman who already doesn't like me, she might move over to hate me because I'm gonna call the city in and try to get her some psychological support and do a welfare check and have somebody come look at this house that I think is about to cave in on her.

• 30:41Dr. John Delony?

  Is, what am I gonna prioritize my mental health or my mom being on the street?

• 30:49Dr. John Delony?

  Am I gonna drive down once a week, an hour to a woman who's pissed off at me and help her get settled in her new one bedroom apartment because that's all she's gonna have?

• 30:59Dr. John Delony?

  Right? Like you're gonna have some hard choices to make and I just want you to always remember, I am in the driver's seat. Every choice I make is gonna have consequences to it. Tough feelings either for me or for others. And I'm gonna continue to do the next right thing because I want to show up as a person who loves her mom well, even when mom is very hard to love.

• 31:20Speaker 02

  Right.

• 31:21Dr. John Delony?

  A young adult who's gonna make really hard calls about safety and things that I shouldn't be having to make right now, but this is what, this is the hand I got dealt and I'm gonna do it the best I can. I'm gonna seek wisdom where I can do it. But yeah, you got a hard road to hoe. But when, as just a general rule of life, if there is a safety concern that trumps everything, I'll make all the calls I need to make and then deal with the relation stuff, ship stuff on the back end. But I'm, I'm making the calls all day. All day, every time. Thanks for your call. I'm really grateful for you. When we come back, a man asks, how does he repair his relationship with his 17 year old son? We'll be right back.

• 32:03Dr. John Delony?

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• 32:45Dr. John Delony?

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• 33:12Dr. John Delony?

  All right, let's go out to Springfield, Missouri and talk to Jeff. What's up, Jeff?

• 33:18Speaker 01

  Hi, Dr. John. Thank you for having me on the show. I listen every single time you have a podcast out.

• 33:26Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, man, thank you. I don't even know if Kelly's here for that many episodes. That's awesome. Glad you're here, brother. What's up?

• 33:33Speaker 01

  So, um, I have my son, he's, I have two kids and my oldest is about to graduate from high school. And, um, you know, like throughout his childhood, like I've always been a participant in, you know, his sports activities. And like I've tried to be an active role in his life. But those are these last probably three or four years, it's, it just really seems like, like no matter what I do, like I, I can't connect with him like on a, on more than a, hey, what's, what's going on level? Like I can't, I can't get,

• 34:17Speaker 01

  he doesn't want to engage with me. He doesn't want to. Um, he doesn't want to like do activities. And like I try to do like father, son activities and he just continues to pull away. And I, I feel like, I feel like, like there's a lot that, like maybe I'm the root cause of this. Like I've, I always try to take introspection, think what have I done to cause this? But I, it's, I've just been at a loss here lately.

• 34:53Dr. John Delony?

  Sorry you're going through that, man.

• 34:55Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 34:56Dr. John Delony?

  That's painful, dude. I got a 16 year old and I, I, I get that feeling that you're feeling, which is developmentally normal. Like they begin standing up a little taller and trying to, like it's a calf becoming a bull, right? It's like, like I'm, I'm gonna start flexing my weight out into the world. There's always gonna be attention. But also, man, my, I have a pretty unique relationship. And so I, I would hate that, what you're experiencing. So man, my heart goes out to you, brother. Um,

• 35:29Speaker 01

  Well.

• 35:31Dr. John Delony?

  So where's, where's mom in all this?

• 35:34Speaker 01

  I mean, she's like, we're, we're still together and she's actively involved. But I mean, I think she also has difficulty, um, maybe not, she probably has a better ability to connect with him. But I wouldn't say it's like, like there's, there's definitely times where it's, it's difficult for her as well.

• 36:01Dr. John Delony?

  Is there, and I'm just going through a checklist in my mind. Is there substance abuse of any kind?

• 36:08Speaker 01

  We, we had an incident, um, we, we had an incident, um, probably six to nine months ago where it, we, we had found out that he had been, um, using marijuana and then it, it all, someone, we had, we found out that he was using marijuana, um, which, um, for, personally for adults, I don't care. I don't use it myself, but for adults, I don't care. But, and, but for, obviously for someone his age, I do, I do not approve. And I've been very clear about that, that, and I, like, I try not to also be an adult that suggests

• 36:51Speaker 01

  this is, you just don't do it. And that's it. I'm like, no, like you, you don't, you don't do marijuana because it makes you not care when you should be, when, when, when, you know, when you, when you feel bored, instead of doing marijuana, you should like better yourself. Like there's a gym, there's books, there's like stuff you could do to improve yourself. Um,

• 37:15Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. Marijuana is particularly devastating for young boys developing minds, for the brain.

• 37:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:22Dr. John Delony?

  Right? Um, and

• 37:26Dr. John Delony?

  I mean, it's like, if you put a hundred dollars a month in an account, starting at the age of 18, you'll be a kajillionaire when you're 65. Like trying to tell a 17 year old, like, dude, you've got an opportunity to lift weights and get ripped and do this and go study extra. That, I mean, you know what I mean? Like, like that, that's a tough sale because right now he's hurting right now.

• 37:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:50Dr. John Delony?

  Or he's lonely right now. He's isolated right now. And so trying to connect that.

• 37:57Dr. John Delony?

  And anyway, what about pornography?

• 38:01Speaker 01

  Um, you know, I've, we have looked through his phone. We, and like I have, I'm, I'm very tech savvy. Um, so like he would have a difficult time hiding stuff from me.

• 38:17Dr. John Delony?

  What about, I guess if you were to back out, if you were to be watching a, like a camera of the regular interactions in your house, how much time is spent telling him what he needs to be doing, where he needs to improve versus celebrating just the young madhouse 17 year old knucklehead that he is?

• 38:47Speaker 01

  Um, this is where I would say I probably do too much of telling him what to do, um, or saying like, you could do this better and.

• 39:02Speaker 01

  I I've I've listened to your show and I've like been trying to like look for things to celebrate, but.

• 39:09Dr. John Delony?

  I think the celebration starts with you clearing the deck with him and and telling him, you don't have a choice here. You're going out to dinner with me or going out to breakfast with me. And look at him in the eye and saying, I've I've I failed, Jen. I'm sorry.

• 39:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:21Dr. John Delony?

  I messed up. I had this conversation with my 16 year old last night.

• 39:27Dr. John Delony?

  I've messed this up for a long time and I'm gonna make a change and I'm gonna hold you to that change too.

• 39:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 39:35Dr. John Delony?

  And so you sitting down with your 17 year old and saying, I know I'm your old man and I know you're just rolling your eyes. I get it. It's fine. But I have to say this. I need you to hear me.

• 39:46Dr. John Delony?

  I've made the last three years, five years, seven years about lectures and pointing out flaws and trying to make you into somebody you're not. And I'm sorry. I love you. You're my son.

• 39:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:58Dr. John Delony?

  And I wouldn't want to hang out with somebody if every time they interacted with me, they were like, fix your clothes. What about your hair? Have you done your laundry? Where's your car? If you clean this out, why didn't you do this? Your mom asked you? I wouldn't want to hang out with that guy either. And kids don't have a choice. So we force them to. But they'll disappear inside their own skin around us, just like you're describing, right? I can't get I I hear that. I've heard that my whole career. My kid's right here, but I can't get him. And they've disappeared inside of a shell of themselves. And sometimes that is substance abuse. And sometimes that is a peer group that's very like unwise and unsafe. But often it is kids just throw up, dude, I'm playing your game. I'm getting this stupid grades you're telling me to get. And I'm doing just enough to get by in this house. So you'll get off my back. Leave me alone.

• 40:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:44Dr. John Delony?

  And that goes back to that. I've talked about on the show where my wife had that conversation with me about, hey, what if you focused on being more likeable?

• 40:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:53Dr. John Delony?

  Instead of being right all the time. And dude, that had a huge impact. That conversation changed my trajectory with my kids.

• 41:01Speaker 01

  So then I guess my question is, like, how do I balance?

• 41:07Speaker 01

  Like, cause I feel like he does need some direction, but I don't.

• 41:10Dr. John Delony?

  He for sure does.

• 41:11Speaker 01

  I don't. I don't want to be the person who, well, I don't want to just be like dictator when I when we interact, especially as he's almost an adult. Like, I don't want to be that. But also.

• 41:25Speaker 01

  I guess, I guess, like, there's stupid things, or maybe there's stupid things like, well, like him and I, like, we'll go, we would go to the gym together and like he would for like a period of time, he would only want to do legs, like just six months straight. Every time he's there, I'm only doing legs. I'm only doing legs. And I'm like, well, you need to work out your upper body too.

• 41:47Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, that right there. Why?

• 41:50Speaker 01

  Because the proper hormone balance whenever for human growth hormone.

• 41:55Dr. John Delony?

  They're getting they're they're getting if you have a kid that only works out legs, they're working the biggest muscles in their body repeatedly.

• 42:06Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 42:07Dr. John Delony?

  But here's here's the here's the bigger lesson we're taking away. I want my kid to love the weight room.

• 42:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:13Dr. John Delony?

  He's 15. I want him to have positive memories of the weight room.

• 42:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:21Dr. John Delony?

  I don't want to exert my rightness. And dude, I'm telling like, from a physiological standpoint, you're right. You should not work out your legs every single day of the week. You know that. I know that.

• 42:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:32Dr. John Delony?

  And he's 15. So it goes back to what game am I playing? Am I playing the game of I will be right? Or am I playing the game of I want my kid to want to go in the weight room when he's 50?

• 42:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's that's fair. That's fair.

• 42:49Dr. John Delony?

  And so he's learned this thing that I love going to the weight room, this thing I love going to the weight room with my dad is yet another place where I'm not doing life right.

• 42:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:02Dr. John Delony?

  You get what I'm saying?

• 43:03Speaker 01

  Yes. No, I a hundred percent.

• 43:05Dr. John Delony?

  So I think I think it's you taking an inventory. Um, here's another good example. You need to do your laundry. He's thinking, no, I don't.

• 43:16Dr. John Delony?

  And

• 43:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:17Dr. John Delony?

  Right? Like. So the conversation might shift to this is my house and you're sleeping in one of my rooms. There can't be clothes all over the floor. You can wear dirty clothes if you want to. I'll turn you over to the high school wolves, man.

• 43:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 43:33Dr. John Delony?

  Or as when you leave our house, you're wearing my name. And so we are not going to enter into the world wearing wrinkly, smelly clothes. And that means if you don't do your laundry, you're not leaving the house.

• 43:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:47Dr. John Delony?

  Right? And so you you incentivize him with the choices he gets to make, not a, like you said, a dictatorship, whereas I'm always pointing out how you can get better, where you need to improve, where you're wrong. And dude, they will play that game with you, young people will, until the second they are free and then they are gone.

• 44:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:10Speaker 01

  Yep. Well, and that's terrifying to me is that he'll just he'll remember his dad as a dictator and then he'll leave at 18 and he'll see me once a year at Christmas and that's it.

• 44:22Dr. John Delony?

  That's it, man.

• 44:25Speaker 01

  It's terrifying.

• 44:26Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 44:28Dr. John Delony?

  Terrifying.

• 44:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:30Dr. John Delony?

  The only path you have in front of your brothers to sit down with them and use the weight room example. Instead of cheering you on and saying, all right, get that squat as high as you can. I lectured you about something that I kind of sort of know, but not really. And I was wrong. I should have been cheering you on, dude. Cause I hate leg days.

• 44:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:53Dr. John Delony?

  And your mom likes my big arms. Like, you know what I mean?

• 44:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:00Speaker 01

  Yep. No, that's definitely the right thing to do here.

• 45:05Dr. John Delony?

  And I and and please hear me say.

• 45:09Dr. John Delony?

  There's this is not about no accountability. This is not about you just do whatever you want in no way, shape, form, or fashion. I'm a strict dad. And also I'm strict about things that me and my wife have decided that we really that matter to us.

• 45:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:28Dr. John Delony?

  Not haircuts.

• 45:32Dr. John Delony?

  Not me. You want to wear those shoes and two different socks? Knock your lights out.

• 45:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I think about some things we, my wife and I have definitely, you know, we've gotten better about stuff like that, I think, because we've let him have his own style, even though it kills my wife and she absolutely hates it, but.

• 45:58Dr. John Delony?

  Which you know, that's the natural order of things. It's the way it should be.

• 46:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:02Dr. John Delony?

  Right?

• 46:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yes. Yeah. But like, you know, he wanted, she wanted to get some photos done and she's like.

• 46:12Speaker 01

  Tell I mean, she's telling me in private, this just absolutely like, but.

• 46:17Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, but think about that message that your son is internalizing.

• 46:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:23Dr. John Delony?

  And that message is this. I don't want a picture

• 46:28Dr. John Delony?

  of who my son thinks he is at this age. I want a photo of an imaginary fake version of us that we can show off to the rest of the world.

• 46:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, no.

• 46:42Dr. John Delony?

  You get what I'm saying? And that's the world. That's the air your son breathes.

• 46:48Speaker 01

  Well, so so we compromise with it. Can you like, you can wear, pick whatever style, but can't be a button down at least like.

• 46:55Dr. John Delony?

  Yes.

• 46:55Speaker 01

  Whatever shirt you want, but can it at least be that?

• 46:58Dr. John Delony?

  But that's where, again, that's where a relationship is, hey, dude, take one for the team. All right, I will. Right?

• 47:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:06Dr. John Delony?

  And even the most hardened punk rocker, even the most hardened who like country, they'll take one for the team. I got that. I'll do that. Right? If if it's based not in me versus you, but it's based in relationship. And so anyway, dude, if I'm you, I would sit down and say, here's what I'm asking. Here's what I'm gonna tell you. I've messed this up.

• 47:30Dr. John Delony?

  I've spent the last however many years, I love you so much and I'm worried about you and the world you're inheriting, the world you're about to enter into. I've tried to make you perfect. And I've tried to make you sometimes somebody that you're not. And I've tried to project the things that I wish I had done differently onto you. I'm sorry. You're my son and I love you.

• 47:52Dr. John Delony?

  We have a standard of the way we do things at our home. We're gonna treat people with dignity and respect. We're gonna work hard and be excellent in those things. That's who we are.

• 48:02Dr. John Delony?

  But I'm way more important. I'm way more interested in loving you and having a relationship with you. It would be an honor to me if you came to breakfast with me once a week, just you and me the last year.

• 48:16Dr. John Delony?

  It would be an honor to me. I've got this awesome leather bound journal. I'm gonna put it on your bed at night. Write me five things you're grateful for and just drop it on my bed on the way out, drop it on the kitchen table. And I'll fill it out and I'll put it back on your bed. You might not want to talk to me, but we can at least write back and forth.

• 48:33Dr. John Delony?

  All of my nitpicking and poking has been me trying to love you well. And I realized I didn't. I pushed you away more than I invited you in.

• 48:46Dr. John Delony?

  That's a tough conversation to have, Jeff, but man, that's the right one because you're right. There's a real possibility that he walks out that door at 18 and you see him twice a year.

• 48:55Dr. John Delony?

  And I wouldn't wish that on anybody. One of the, one of the future dream goals my wife and I have is that no matter where my kids go in the world, no matter what chaos they get into or what chaos comes upon them, their first impulse is always, oh, I can go home. Like, I want to, that's, that's always a good place to be.

• 49:18Dr. John Delony?

  That means I have, I've had to work really hard on not being right all the time, but being likable. Not being a pushover, but being likable. Thanks for the call, brother. We'll be right back.

• 49:29Dr. John Delony?

  All right. You've heard me talking about it for months and it's official. My brand new book, Building the Marriage You Want, is available for preorder. Picture me sitting at the table with you and your spouse, helping you both take the next right step in your marriage. That's what this book is. Me sitting at the table with you both, walking you through what to do in your marriage. I get into all of it. Why marriage is so hard in the 21st century, why I think marriage still matters. And I'll give you a playbook for the stuff that trips most couples up. Communication, conflict, sex, money, being married with kids, all of it. Nothing is off the table. If you like this show, you're going to love this book.

• 50:10Dr. John Delony?

  Preorder Building the Marriage You Want today for $24.99 and get over $100 in preorder bonus items. Go to john deloney.com.

• 50:20Dr. John Delony?

  All right, Kelly, am I the problem?

• 50:23Speaker 03

  All right, this one's a little bit different. She's more looking for some perspective. Let me just read it. This is from Jamie in Simpsonville, South Carolina. And she says, Hey, Dr. John, Kelly and team. Thank you for all you do. All right. I'm not sure if this is an am I the problem question or something you can just help clarify. On different episodes, when you talk about a marriage after a major struggle and say things like your marriage is over or you have a brand new marriage, my husband always cringes a little. I personally understand the concept, but he sees it differently. We've spent 23 years together and certainly have gone through our share of bumps and trials along the way. He's adamant that we would never want to toss those years or that marriage into the past.

• 51:07Speaker 03

  Instead, he sees it as a continuing to grow and build on everything we've already been through together. His thought is that saying your marriage is over almost feels like kicking the foundation out from under the house rather than repairing it and continuing to build. Curious on how you'd respond to his perspective on that.

• 51:24Dr. John Delony?

  Great, great, great question. Shout out to your husband there. Here is my response slash rebuttal to what he's saying. I 100% get, and that's where I was for years and years and years. What it's not, it's not trafficking in reality. And here's what I mean. You're not kicking out the foundation. That foundation's already gone. You're not, um,

• 51:53Dr. John Delony?

  if you have, like she's, what'd she say bumps and bruises along the way?

• 51:58Speaker 03

  Bumps and trials.

• 51:59Dr. John Delony?

  Bumps and trials. Um, if you think about that, like if you're building a home and you're pulling out the concrete blocks that show up on the big pallets and you're building this thing. If there are trials and broken cinder blocks, you don't want to be like, well, this is in the pallet. This is part of us. We're just going to keep, we're going to stack these up here anyway. You're going to say, hey, these are broken. We're putting them over here. We've got to build a new thing. We want to use new materials and new things. Of course, you're not going to just get rid of your memories. You don't have like a control, delete button, right? But the, the, what Barry's marriage is in the present is trying to drag the past and say, look what used to be. Look how we used to feel. Look how pretty you used to be. Dude, we were watching that show, The Middle.

• 52:44Dr. John Delony?

  You know that show, The Middle? That show is so funny. I missed it when it came. It is so funny. But there's this Patricia Heaton, who I just thinks is the best. She was looking at her, uh, new driver's license and she was older, like by a long time than she was the last one. And she's like, oh my gosh, I look, I look old and awful. And then her husband walks by and she, he said, she says, does it ever make you sad that I'm not like young and beautiful like I used to be? And he's like, oh yes, total bummer. What are you going to do? And he just kept walking.

• 53:19Dr. John Delony?

  I started dialing out like, if you're constantly pulling what you used to, we used to, remember when?

• 53:28Dr. John Delony?

  That, that the new thing you're building can't, it can't bury the, can't bear the weight of all of that past stuff. So when I say you're building a new marriage, you are using the same site, you're using the same design. You're, I mean, the same, the same, same two minds who are creating the blueprint and the architectural designs, all the stuff. But yeah, you're saying in this new world, in this new season, in this new life, here's what we want this place to look and feel like. And so I get what he's saying, but he's not understanding the depth of what was your marriage before you had kids? It doesn't exist. It's gone. Your marriage when you had just three toddlers and y'all could still kind of get away. It's over. And your marriage when y'all have, now that you have no kids.

• 54:11Dr. John Delony?

  It's the thing that was doesn't exist anymore. And so you can feel like, you can, you can semantics it all you want. Like we're building on the past. Great. Cool. What you're doing is you've got two people that have been through the wringer together. And y'all are back at the table saying, how do we want this new version to look and feel? And we get to build that together. And that's, that's the past that you're bringing, but not the old stuff. Does that make sense? That make it more confusing?

• 54:35Speaker 03

  No, I think it made sense. Um, it was a little, little confusing and messy for me until you said the part about that marriage, like you can't go back to the marriage you had when you didn't have kids now that you've got two toddlers at home. Or, you know, when the kids all leave, you can't go back to when they were all at home. You have a new marriage. It just is. It's a new phase. So you have to figure out what that looks like.

• 55:00Dr. John Delony?

  Yes.

• 55:00Speaker 03

  Yeah. And, you know, if you're thinking about it, building on the past of a big bump or trial, like an affair or some kind of betrayal, anything like that, you don't want that marriage.

• 55:12Dr. John Delony?

  You don't want that as a part of your foundation.

• 55:14Speaker 03

  Right.

• 55:14Dr. John Delony?

  Right? Like we're going to excavate it and we're going to say, we get to decide what happens next. Yeah. And so here's a thought experiment. If you, if you wrestle with that analogy, A, totally get that. That's awesome.

• 55:27Dr. John Delony?

  Consider what it would mean to swipe the deck and build your marriage with your ride or die spouse of how long? 17, 20, 25 years, however long they were together.

• 55:37Speaker 03

  23.

• 55:37Dr. John Delony?

  23 years. What would it look, what would you do differently? If you got to build it from the floor up, who would you want to be? Who would you want your spouse to show up as? Do that thought experiment and you don't have to go with it. Just try it. Try to say, okay, here's how I want to build this new thing up. And yes, you've got memories from the past. Of course you do. That's beautiful. But you're going to bring those things like a Pinterest board to your new architectural design of your new marriage. Hope that helps. Great, great, great question. I love it. And I love people who push back on my metaphors. It makes, that, that makes them stronger or it makes me throw them out and get something new. So, love you guys. Bye.