135. Sarah Ann Macklin: Self-Compassion and Sustainable Behavior Change

Most people know what they should do to be healthy, yet still struggle to follow through. What if the real barrier is not discipline or knowledge, but mindset. In this episode of Extend, we sit down with Sarah Ann Macklin, a nutritionist and health educator who blends nutrition science with psychology and self-compassion. Sarah shares her journey from high fashion modeling to nutritional science, and how burnout, illness, and neurodiversity shaped her approach to sustainable health. We explore why health changes often fail when driven by restriction and scarcity, how self-compassion creates lasting behavior change, and why ultra-processed foods, stress, and comparison culture sabotage both physical and mental health. Sarah also breaks down practical tools to reconnect with hunger cues, build healthier habits, and shift from self-criticism to an abundance mindset so health no longer feels hard, rigid, or overwhelming. What We Discuss: (00:00) Why people struggle to get healthy despite good advice (02:30) Self-compassion as the foundation of sustainable health (07:30) From high fashion modeling to nutrition and a major health wake-up call (14:30) Dyslexia, neurodivergence, and the first moment of self-compassion (18:30) Food and mental health, the SMILES trial, and omega-3 research (26:30) Body image, thinness myths, and the reality of the modeling industry (31:30) Social media, comparison culture, and rising body dysmorphia (38:30) The neuroscience of self-compassion and why positivity alone fails (43:30) Optimizers vs lapses and the shared feeling of not being enough (49:30) Clinical tools, mindful food journaling, and emotional awareness (54:30) Crash dieting, quick fixes, and why habits matter more than diets (01:00:00) Stress, mindset, and how rigid health plans backfire (01:03:30) Practical self-compassion tools and book announcement Thank You to Our Sponsors: IM8: Try IM8 today with a 30-day money back guarantee. You can get 10% off your first order with code DRSHAH at https://im8health.com/discount/DRSHAH. Learn more about Dr. Shah: Website: https://www.drshah.com/ Clinic: https://www.next-health.com/ Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/darshanshahmd/ Learn more about Sarah Ann Macklin: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sarahannmacklin/ Facebook: https://boulderlongevity.comhttps://www.facebook.com/SarahAnnOfficial/ Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-macklin-3498a193/

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:03Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Welcome to Extend with me, Dr. Darshan Shah, a podcast dedicated to cutting-edge science, research, tools, and protocols designed to help you extend your health span. Having become one of the youngest doctors in the country at the age of 21, and trained and board-certified at the Mayo Clinic, I've accumulated three decades of practice as a board-certified surgeon and longevity expert. Over that time, I've discovered that a mere 20% of health knowledge yields 80% of the results when it comes to your health span. We're living in a new era where we are creating a new healthcare system, no longer focused on disease management, but achieving optimal health and vitality. Join me as I interview world-renowned experts, offering you a step-by-step guide to proactively avoid disease, and most importantly, extend your health span.

• 0:49Dr. Darshan Shah?

  In today's episode, I'm going to be sitting down with my friend Sarah Ann Macklin. She's a nutritionist, a model, a researcher, and host of the podcast Live Well, Be Well. We're going to explore self-compassion being the starting point for real health change. From her high-pressure years in the modeling industry to her education in biochemistry and mental health, Sarah's journey reveals how stress, self-worth, diet, and our inner dialogue shape every decision that we make. We dive into the science of lifestyle medicine, the psychology of behavior change, and why understanding yourself may be the most powerful tool that you have for improving your mental and physical health.

• 1:34Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Sarah, thank you so much for joining me on Extend today.

• 1:37Speaker 01

  I'm so happy to be here.

• 1:39Dr. Darshan Shah?

  All the way from London.

• 1:40Speaker 01

  All the way from London.

• 1:41Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I met you at an amazing dinner that our friend Rupi put on, who was on my podcast.

• 1:46Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:47Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And he had dinner at my home, and he decided to do the same kind of like dinner party in London for me, which was so sweet of him. And he invited you, and it was such an incredible meeting with you because you have an incredible story. And I couldn't wait for you to come visit here in Los Angeles.

• 2:01Speaker 01

  I wanted. I love that we did it within six weeks.

• 2:04Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I know, crazy. Actually, I think we figured out at that dinner, you're going to be in LA. And now here we are in the podcast studio. The world of podcasting gets smaller and smaller. Well, I absolutely love having you on this podcast and I would love to kind of start the conversation with you about, you know, I have a lot of patients that come through here, hundreds, thousands maybe come to Next Health, right? And obviously, I really feel like we have one of the best kind of systems to get people healthy, but people still struggle. And even though we give people all the right advice that we know is based on their blood tests and they're going to be able to move the needle, a lot of people have a lot of trouble taking the first step.

• 2:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:45Dr. Darshan Shah?

  So, I mean, what do you see from your vantage point and your kind of experience as being the number one reason people struggle with getting healthy?

• 2:53Speaker 01

  Hmm. The number one reason I think people really struggle with being healthy is something that I've seen over the last 10 years of my practice and myself is people always choose it from a place of lack and a big part of that is self compassion. And naturally, anyone who's English listening to this might instantly cringe. You guys are much more open to this term and much more connected, which I think is an amazing thing and I've come to learn how important it is. But I always believe if something feels uncomfortable, you should lean into the cringe because that's actually where the work needs to be done. And if you think about why we go and make choices for our health, ultimately, we all want the same outcome. We all want to feel better, we all want to look better, but we all want to live longer.

• 3:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, we want to be 80 and be able to feel that we can still bend down and pick something up. Like ultimately, that's what we want, but we never do it from a place of abundance. Normally, it's because we're not feeling good about ourselves. And that has, you know, that's the upstream effect that I'm seeing a lot. And our mindset impacts so much on our health choices. When I started, I changed my career from a high fashion model to a nutritionist and I started seeing clients in practice. It was interesting. I was like, I can't just hand them a diet plan. I see their biomarkers. They come to me with what their goals were. I want to lose weight. I want to feel more energized. I'm high performance. But like three months later, they'd be back in the same position.

• 4:15Speaker 01

  And ultimately, we live in a, in a society now where most people know how to eat well. We know the basics. And I think no matter What filled you in, the one thing that we all agree on is that we should reduce ultra-processed foods.

• 4:29Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 4:29Speaker 01

  Doesn't matter what camp of the of the line that you sit on regarding health, that's one that we all kind of come together on. And I think if we all did that, wow.

• 4:37Dr. Darshan Shah?

  There are some people out there, I think they're paid by the food companies and say the opposite is crazy, right?

• 4:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:43Dr. Darshan Shah?

  But yeah, all listeners, please just swear off ultra-processed food.

• 4:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's, I think that's what everyone who has some common sense would say, right? Cause that's nothing that's extreme, that's basic, that's eating whole foods. And it's interesting, people know that, but why do they struggle to implement it? And that's why we're missing out the mindset and that's such a huge piece because nutrition or health, it's all connected to psychology. It's all connected to how you feel about yourself. And so I believe that self-compassion is kind of the bricks and the mortar of the foundation for your health. And once you can build that and make the right choices for yourself, everything else becomes a little bit easier. But we're never taught that, we're never taught that at school, we're never taught that from our parents, we're taught to be compassionate to others and to be kind to others.

• 5:28Speaker 01

  Which does a huge amount for our self-worth, but very rarely are we taught to be kind to ourselves. And so I I I depict this in a way of, like, your children, you would ultimately want to give them the best. You know, you know so much about health and nutrition that you're not gonna just give them huge amounts of ultra-processed food. But on the weekend, if they're like, I want some ice cream, of course we're gonna give them some ice cream, cause you're like, well, that's absolutely fine.

• 5:55Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 5:56Speaker 01

  But if they ask it again and again and again in the same day, your natural instinct is to say, no.

• 6:02Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 6:03Speaker 01

  Right? And that's not because you wanna be mean, that's because you genuinely care about them and you know that too much is gonna make them irritable and not sleep. And over time, that's gonna increase, you know, weight problems and all of those things. So you do it from a place of love. But when we flip that to ourselves, it's very different. And so for me, I try to get people to understand that mindset as like the first step before we think about all the other things.

• 6:28Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Wow, that's so powerful because, you know, I think as a doctor, you know, I just wanna give people like, here's your prescription of things to do, right? Stop eating ultra-processed food, get seven hours of sleep, right? Go walk eight thousand steps a day. Never do I start the conversation with self-compassion and how do you feel about yourself right now? And you said something very interesting there, I wanna dive into that a little bit more, which was coming from a place of abundance with your health not coming from a place of lacking, right? Like, I think you're right, a lot of people seek our advice when they feel like they're lacking something. They're lacking their energy, they're lacking gut health, they are not sleeping well.

• 7:09Dr. Darshan Shah?

  But I think that, you know, coming from a place of abundance is an incredible mindset shift. And so how does, how does someone look at their health and wellness journey as coming from a place of abundance? What does that look like?

• 7:21Speaker 01

  It's not easy. Like, I say self-compassion is one of the most courageous things you can do, because you have to step into the places that is difficult. You have to really look at yourself, and that's really hard. Because the whole point of self-compassion is it's about being kind to yourself in those moments that can feel really, really tough. And that's where you build resilience, like resilience is such a big word right now. And I define self-compassion in three things. One is self-empathy. We understand what empathy is because we can connect to other people. But self-empathy is when you can turn that into yourself and actually feel and try and understand where you are. And there's no right or wrong answer, but connecting to that is a really important thing. Mindfulness is the next thing, we all know how important mindfulness is.

• 8:04Speaker 01

  But how often are we present, present, do we make rational decisions? When we're stressed, we don't make the most logical decisions. Because we go into fight or flight and we live in a chronically stressed environment. So trying to be mindful, and that's very hard when you're being critical. So that's why self-empathy is really important, because self-empathy grounds you enough to connect to mindfulness. And then that shifts you into the resilience phase where you're like, okay, I'm gonna act on this, I'm gonna take some action. That's a very courageous act. And so that's how I look at, at self-compassion. And so for people to start trying to understand where they are, it's like asking themselves a very simple question of, how do I feel?

• 8:45Dr. Darshan Shah?

  How do I feel?

• 8:46Speaker 01

  How do I feel? Because a lot of us live in our minds, we're very cerebral. And we'll try and overthink a lot of things. But a lot of us become very disconnected to our bodies. And so trying to get us into more of that phase of like, how do I actually feel? Can feel really uncomfortable for a lot of people. And so then starting to question that is a really big part of the kind of self compassion formula.

• 9:09Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes, for sure. Now, you sound like you have personal experience with this. You've had a journey yourself. You know, you mentioned a little earlier that you were a high fashion model. And then you went to learn nutrition, right?

• 9:22Speaker 01

  So opposite.

• 9:23Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, I mean, like, you know, I mean, no offense to the high fashion models out there, but, you know, I think of modeling as maybe, you know, for most models, it's just like, you know, their nutrition is terrible. I see a few as patients here and basically it's like, how do I get the least amount of calories in as possible? All the time and it's usually a diet composed of just, you know, junk food for the most part, I think a lot of times. And people are getting better, obviously, like I think you said, as there's this movement of people talking about the negatives of ultra processed food, people are trying to eat healthier. But it just seems like, you know, maybe there's some history there in your life that kind of brought you to this conclusion.

• 10:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't believe anyone is on a mission without there's a personal story behind it. You know, if you're very mission driven, normally it's because there's something that has happened to you. And you've gone after it to try and understand yourself. And that was basically my story. I, I mean, it's interesting, I was a high fashion model, but this all started years before without me even realizing. So I was, you know, for me, I loved school, I loved the sociable side, I was a very sociable person. But I always felt very different at school. I'd always be told I was a very frustrating child, they asked to leave the class, you know, I wouldn't stop chatting, would zone out all the time. And felt like a bit of a failure at school and ever feel that people understood or I understood myself.

• 10:46Speaker 01

  Then out of nowhere, I got spotted and as a model and, you know, I didn't even know what that meant at that point. I came from a really small. Place outside London, so these things weren't normal.

• 10:57Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Mm hmm.

• 10:58Speaker 01

  And overnight went to London and had a had a really successful modeling career.

• 11:02Dr. Darshan Shah?

  How old were you when you got spotted?

• 11:03Speaker 01

  I was sixteen.

• 11:04Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Oh, you were very.

• 11:05Speaker 01

  So I was really young. I'd moved to London by the time I was eighteen. I was shooting high fashion brands and also like the big commercial brands as well, which is where you earn your money in modeling. And then, you know, I went to Paris, I went to Milan, and then I settled in New York and I lived in New York for a while. And it was at that height of my modeling career where social media started.

• 11:25Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Hmm.

• 11:25Speaker 01

  And it was really interesting because I say now that modeling is no different to the social media of today. Because modeling over twelve years ago was a very small niche industry that was high on steroids. Everyone felt like they were having an emotional breakdown, but we didn't quite know what that meant.

• 11:39Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 11:39Speaker 01

  But it was normalized, you know, comparison was day to day. I would be going to a casting with the girl that I was living with and you're in this ultra competitive environment. You're never taught about health, mental health, especially for people in England was just never spoken about. I started to become more attuned to it when I moved here because people were way more open about it and I would find it really difficult to have that conversation because it was a very stigmatized thing.

• 12:04Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 12:04Speaker 01

  And the high pressure environment that I lived in, ultimately my body just stopped one day on set.

• 12:10Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 12:10Speaker 01

  And I had rye gourds, which kind of feels like you're having a bit of a seizure, but your body is shaking because my kidney had urosepsis, so it was pushing and rejecting everything. And then I got rushed into hospital. I had E. coli, I had urosepsis, I had tempests in my womb, they found I was internally bleeding.

• 12:28Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 12:28Speaker 01

  Um, there was just so many things were happening with my body and I was twenty three at this point, so I was really young. And all I remember, I remember they had a helicopter, I came back to London by this point, they had a heli- they had a helicopter. There's one drug, one antibiotic that was left from Scotland down to the UK to treat me. And I remember, you know, a week after being in hospital, having all these different doctors, like the cardio doctor and the gynae doctor and the renal doctor and kind of sitting there and looking at them all, thinking, wow, everything is so in like the silos of health, you know, they're trying to treat what the problem is. Little did I know that it wasn't just like one. Thing, it was like an accumulation of of intense stress.

• 13:08Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 13:08Speaker 01

  And that all came from not feeling good enough. And then my dad had a brain hemorrhage six months later. And I remember getting that call and going back to see him. I was back in New York at that point. And thinking when that call happened, how frustrated I was that he'd had a brain hemorrhage because he wasn't looking after his health. And it was interesting, that frustration I never had with myself.

• 13:29Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 13:30Speaker 01

  You know, I was, I nearly lost my life, but I, for me, it was a blink of an eye. But for my dad, the fear of losing him caused like a huge emotional distress, as you can imagine.

• 13:41Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Sure.

• 13:41Speaker 01

  So that made me wanna rethink everything. And I was thinking, you know, I'm, I'm not in the best health. Like, what, how can I get better? And over ten years ago, like, health and nutrition wasn't as big as it is today. There wasn't as many kind of sources to turn to. It wasn't that common to speak about. And so I thought the only way I could go back is to understand with food. Cause that was one of the biggest kind of factors, as you know, within modeling, that is always told to eat less and to reduce everything that you've got and to try and have the smallest calorie diet. And I was thinking, this is the only thing that I can really pinpoint right now. So I'm gonna go back and learn about it. And as I went back to university, to my Bachelor of Science in Nutritional Science. Six weeks in, it felt like a Legally Blonde moment. I literally walked in.

• 14:25Speaker 01

  And everyone looked at me and I was thinking, I don't know if I belong to be here. Cause I've had this successful career and now I went back.

• 14:31Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Or in New York?

• 14:31Speaker 01

  This is in London.

• 14:32Dr. Darshan Shah?

  So you went back to London?

• 14:33Speaker 01

  So I went back to London. I left New York, went back to London and walked in and everyone kind of looked at me.

• 14:38Dr. Darshan Shah?

  What are you doing here?

• 14:40Speaker 01

  What am I doing here? I don't fit in here. And I had all these past fears of how much I didn't like school. And I was thinking, maybe I just don't align to be here either. And it was my biochemistry teacher that I went in and said to her, look, I'm gonna drop out because I'm not smart. And she said, huh? What do you mean you're not smart? And I was like, look, I'm just, I should not have been here. And she was like, but you are smart. And I've, I that just for me, that I could, I felt so uncomfortable, someone saying that word to me, cause I'd never heard that before. And she said, why would you say that? And I was like, oh, I've been told that my whole life. And then also as a model, you're always like popped into this stereotypical field, you know, as well.

• 15:18Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 15:18Speaker 01

  So I found that really difficult. And she said, you're not, you are smart. And I was like, why would you say that? And she said, look, I think the reason why you're zoning out and you're struggling is you're neurodivergent. And I was like. What does that mean?

• 15:30Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 15:31Speaker 01

  And she was like, well, dyslexia is a very kind of natural way of getting some words mixed up. You're also studying part by chemistry, probably the hardest thing for your brain if you've never understood it. And so she took me to have a diagnosis. They told me I was, and that was my first compassionate moment where actually I felt good enough because I understood myself. Somebody had shown me empathy. Somebody had said, no, you're not stupid. You are smart, but your brain just works slightly differently. And this is how you understand yourself. And I was like, whoa, I've never had, I've never had that feeling now has ever seen me in that way. I didn't understand myself and it's bizarre when somebody is explaining how you feel and you do not understand it, but you're going, oh yeah, that's me.

• 16:15Speaker 01

  So it was this amazing moment and I'm always very thankful to her for that moment because that changed everything. And I became really interested in mental health with nutritional science. And what I learned over that time was I never felt good enough my whole life. You know, I never felt good enough at school because I was told that. And then as soon as I was given a chance with modeling.

• 16:35Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 16:35Speaker 01

  I threw everything into it to be the best.

• 16:39Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 16:39Speaker 01

  I had the best diet, I had the best workout routine, I had, I didn't wanna let it go. But it all came from a place of not feeling good enough.

• 16:46Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 16:47Speaker 01

  And I never knew that, you know, for me, success in the Oxford dictionary. When I read about it was fame, wealth and social status. That's how it's explained. And I had that at a really young age, but I wasn't successful because I was so, I wasn't happy.

• 17:01Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Oh.

• 17:02Speaker 01

  And so I find it really interesting that like we have these parameters to fixate on, to be there in our health regime or be there in our success. But actually, if it comes from a place of lack. That isn't healthy and that isn't successful. And so for me, like getting to that point of understanding what it means to feel good enough. And it doesn't mean you have to love yourself, but just doing it from a place of being your own best friend.

• 17:25Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 17:26Speaker 01

  It changes everything.

• 17:28Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 17:28Speaker 01

  And so for me, that's where my research ended up, like wanting to go down into.

• 17:32Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I love it. You know, I think there's a lot of parallels, very different, but parallels with what I experienced. Because I also, you know, in my medical career, I started this functional medicine career 10 years ago. And for the first time, I feel like it's coming from a place of like, you know, like, I really want to do this and it's abundance for me. At first it's like, I have to do it because, you know, I trained in medicine. So what am I going to do? You know? That kind of a thing. And so like for you, when you found that you had this dyslexia issue, it finally explained to you that you needed to, the reason why you felt this way about yourself that, and the reason you kind of became a model was because you felt like you weren't smart. So this was something that gave you something that you were good at.

• 18:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, which I didn't think was even an option.

• 18:16Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 18:17Speaker 01

  Like, I was so lucky that I was spotted. So people say, oh, was it modeling that destroyed you? And I'm like, no, it saved me.

• 18:23Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 18:23Speaker 01

  Like, it totally saved me because it was the first time that it made, it made me feel like I was good at something. But because I had no self-worth and no self-compassion, I never understood the boundaries of it. If I had more of that, I may have been able to handle that career completely differently.

• 18:39Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 18:40Speaker 01

  And so I think like knowing that you are good enough is so important in all the decisions, in decisions, if it's coming from abundance.

• 18:47Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes.

• 18:48Speaker 01

  Then you're going to have such a different outcome.

• 18:50Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Exactly. Yeah. And so when you see, you know, you look at your other friends that are models and, and you see kind of what they're doing. Were you talking to them about this? Were you trying to like, explain to them like what you were going through?

• 19:01Speaker 01

  No.

• 19:02Dr. Darshan Shah?

  No.

• 19:02Speaker 01

  No, because also I felt that I was given this amazing, which was an amazing opportunity. And so I think when you feel that you're, you're becoming successful in something, I had success at a very young age, which is also quite rare.

• 19:14Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 19:14Speaker 01

  You feel that you cannot complain because you're, you're like, I'm so grateful to be here. But obviously the pressures are so intense and you don't really have the emotional maturity to understand. You don't have the emotional maturity to understand the pressures that you're under or emotional regulation. You don't know any of that. So you just say yes to everything until you literally burn out.

• 19:32Dr. Darshan Shah?

  For sure.

• 19:33Speaker 01

  Whereas now I would be so different. I would be like, my, you know. That doesn't feel right for me and I'd speak honestly.

• 19:39Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Um.

• 19:39Speaker 01

  But I've got the vocabulary, that the emotional granularity that you need to have to understand how you feel and express it. It's quite rare.

• 19:47Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 19:47Speaker 01

  And you really only get that as you're older.

• 19:49Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 19:49Speaker 01

  So I think like I, it's only been in the last kind of seven years that I've understood this journey.

• 19:56Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Hmm.

• 19:56Speaker 01

  And I was in it. I had no idea this is how I felt.

• 19:59Dr. Darshan Shah?

  This is how you're going.

• 20:00Speaker 01

  Never had the language to explain it.

• 20:02Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 20:02Speaker 01

  So.

• 20:03Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And then so what did you do next? So you, you decided to learn nutrition and then what happened?

• 20:07Speaker 01

  So I learnt nutrition and then, so I got a first, which was massive for me because thinking I was gonna drop out of school, then all of a sudden getting you know, a really good grade for me, gave me a massive boost.

• 20:18Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Wow.

• 20:19Speaker 01

  And it really made me start to realign my thinking. So first I got really connected to mental health with nutrition because ten years ago, you know, people understood that nutrition was important for physique and going to the gym and how you looked. That's how I always looked at it, especially being a model. But then I was like, wow, it can affect your mental health.

• 20:37Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Oh.

• 20:37Speaker 01

  And Felice Jacker had, you know, done the smiles trial around that time and that was the first ever randomized controlled trial that showed that food could treat depression.

• 20:45Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Oh.

• 20:46Speaker 01

  And it was incredible. The smiles trial.

• 20:48Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Can you describe that, that trial for me? Like what, what was she testing?

• 20:51Speaker 01

  Yeah. So she was basically wanting to find out whether if you had depression, like chronic depression, not just low mood, with that were chronically depressed, if you could help reverse it with food. It hadn't ever been done before and she was really, really interested in this area. And so she had two different groups and a control group. So she had one group that were given a Mediterranean diet, but modified Mediterranean diet. So it was think about the Mediterranean diet and steroids. They had to have between like five and eight grams of whole grains a day. Oily fish, lots of olive oil, but the basics of a Mediterranean diet. The second group literally was just the control group and they had not the Mediterranean diet, their normal diet and they had a befriending group. So somebody that would go and speak to just about

• 21:34Speaker 01

  normal things. It wasn't a therapist. It was just someone that would say, how have you been today? Oh, you know, I've been, I've been fine. Like, shall we play a board game? And just very, like a very placebo controlled group, but they did have a befriending group. I also find this quite interesting.

• 21:47Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 21:48Speaker 01

  They found out after twelve weeks of the trial that a third of the people in the food that had the modified Mediterranean diet overcame that chronical depression.

• 21:58Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Wow.

• 21:59Speaker 01

  Just from food.

• 22:00Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Just from the food.

• 22:01Speaker 01

  And so that was one of the first trials to show, but they also showed that the pre-fermenting group, it was like six or eight percent, I can't remember, they also overcame their depression. And it's never really been looked into, but I'm like, why is that? I mean, it's a small percentage, but it's still, it's still important to acknowledge.

• 22:17Dr. Darshan Shah?

  For sure.

• 22:17Speaker 01

  Is that because they felt they had someone to talk to? Is that because there was some joy given to them? Like, we don't know, it was never looked into. But I also find that quite interesting.

• 22:25Dr. Darshan Shah?

  That is very interesting.

• 22:26Speaker 01

  I'm like, what if we put them together?

• 22:27Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I was just gonna say the same thing. Like, why don't we try both together?

• 22:29Speaker 01

  Right? Imagine if we did the food.

• 22:32Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 22:32Speaker 01

  And also just, you know, somebody to sit and talk to you once a week. And it's not therapy, they weren't talking about emotions or anything. But um, I find that really interesting. So for me, that was a really interesting area. I was like, wow, food can have the impact to really support your mental wellbeing.

• 22:47Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I mean, this is the same results as like a lot of drugs.

• 22:50Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 22:51Dr. Darshan Shah?

  You know?

• 22:52Speaker 01

  And so you can imagine, because there's always a place, I always say, there's always a place for drugs for some people.

• 22:57Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 22:57Speaker 01

  Like, we should never wipe them out, but imagine if you started off with lifestyle changes like nutrition or some pre-fermenting support or some self-compassion. And then the next week, you try the drug. Like, imagine how much that could bolster it.

• 23:12Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 23:12Speaker 01

  But the thing is, we're never taught these, we're taught them in silo. And you might not ever need the drug, but you might do all the lifestyle changes and still feel not yourself. And then that's when you take the next step.

• 23:23Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 23:24Speaker 01

  But we're just not.

• 23:25Dr. Darshan Shah?

  We don't ever start with lifestyle changes.

• 23:26Speaker 01

  We never start with that.

• 23:27Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah. Especially when it comes to depression, I think the problem there is just, you know, people go see a doctor for depression and the doctor has five minutes, like, okay, here's Prozac.

• 23:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:38Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Come back, you know, in a month and tell me if you're still depressed. But the reality is, like you said, a lot of depression has its roots in poor food choices, poor metabolic health. And when you fix that, depression tends to go away. Because those foods are highly inflammatory and inflammation in your gut translates to inflammation in your brain.

• 23:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, massive.

• 23:59Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 24:00Speaker 01

  And also I found out, you know, when I was studying, because I was new, and you know, ADHD is on the rise. Autism, a lot of people are talking about all of this stuff now. And when I found out that I had dyslexia, you know, again, I'm like, I wonder what food can do.

• 24:13Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 24:14Speaker 01

  And I was so interested in omega threes. And so I looked so much into omega threes. And I mean, this is, this is over ten years ago now, so it might potentially change. But Dr. Richardson, who works at Oxford University, she was really interested in this. So I would follow her to all of her seminars that she would do.

• 24:30Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Oh, really?

• 24:30Speaker 01

  And she would do loads of random control trials on children that had neurodivergency, like dyslexia, and feed them a couple portions of oily fish a week. Because a lot of people don't meet their omega three status, especially now with so high in omega sixes. And she would find that after, you know, like three months, these children would overcome their chronic reading age.

• 24:47Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 24:48Speaker 01

  By increasing their omega three status from just oily fish. And so obviously, you know, I was on a very, you know, very reduced diet when I was a model. So all of a sudden, I'm going, oh, I shouldn't be a vegan. I should be having oily fish. I should be having more of these in my diet. The polyphenols are amazing for my gut microbiome. And that is really important for the blood brain barrier. And, and I just started increasing all this abundance of foods in my diet. Because I also wanted to, you know, support my dyslexia.

• 25:16Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 25:16Speaker 01

  And so I found it so fascinating that I would feel better, I would process information way better. I then didn't feel like I was struggling as much with my dyslexia. One, because I understood how to manage it. But two, I started to include all of these different nutrients into my diet.

• 25:31Dr. Darshan Shah?

  You're eating more.

• 25:32Speaker 01

  So much more.

• 25:33Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 25:34Speaker 01

  So much more.

• 25:34Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And you felt better.

• 25:35Speaker 01

  So much better. And that was really important for me. I was like, wow, you don't, and the interesting thing is, we all want to look better, right? At the end of the day, I don't care what anyone says, we all want to look better.

• 25:47Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 25:47Speaker 01

  And to do that, you've got to eat the good nutrients.

• 25:50Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 25:50Speaker 01

  I was depriving myself of it. Like, I had to turn up with good hair and good skin. You don't get that from a low calorie diet.

• 25:58Dr. Darshan Shah?

  No.

• 25:58Speaker 01

  You get that from an abundance diet.

• 26:00Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Exactly. This is what drives me crazy about the people that say calories in, calories out, that's the only thing that matters. And it's just drives me nuts because you see so many people trying to limit their calories.

• 26:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:12Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And they do that and they limit their nutrition.

• 26:15Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 26:16Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And they're still eating the same food that is the same number of calories as ultra processed food, but is so nutrient lacking that they end up eating more because their body's starving for nutrients, right? And so I think a lot of people forget that you don't just have hunger for calories, you have hunger for nutrition. Your body keeps you hungry if you don't have enough nutrients, right?

• 26:38Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 26:39Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And so calories in, calories out does not work. It can work like in a laboratory, like if you're just studying physics, but it doesn't work in the real human body. It's more about nutrition, metabolic health, movement. There's so many pieces involved in the puzzle.

• 26:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is. It's such a reductionist view to think about calories in, calories out because calories also is so different. You know, you could have a Mars bar calories and you could have the same amount of calories in broccoli.

• 27:04Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 27:04Speaker 01

  They're fundamentally completely different.

• 27:06Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 27:07Speaker 01

  You know, and so that's, that's the nuance in the conversation.

• 27:10Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 27:10Speaker 01

  I think a lot of that.

• 27:11Dr. Darshan Shah?

  If you eat the same amount of broccoli calories, say you have like, I don't know how many calories is a Mars bar, say 500 calories. If you eat 500 calories of broccoli, you won't be hungry until dinner. With a Mars bar, you're gonna be hungry like an hour, right?

• 27:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 27:23Dr. Darshan Shah?

  So you're gonna need a glucose crash too.

• 27:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:25Dr. Darshan Shah?

  So it does completely different biological signals to your brain as well.

• 27:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it's interesting because I remember there was an era, and I don't know what it was like over here, but people, you know, rice cakes were a huge thing and that's, you know, processed food. But, you know, people were eating that because they think, they were thinking that was healthy.

• 27:42Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Mm-hmm.

• 27:42Speaker 01

  And I was in that camp, you know, I'm gonna have some rice cakes with a tiny bit of hummus and diet coke. I mean, that was like one of the worst things that I could have for my health. But my intention was right.

• 27:54Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 27:54Speaker 01

  That mind, and this is what I find is really interesting. A lot of people, everyone's intention is correct, you know, they all want to feel better, they all feel like they're trying to do the right thing. But everyone's so confused, you know, like low calorie that doesn't sustain you.

• 28:08Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Well, I think another big problem was, and you probably saw this in your modeling career too, is we equated someone being thin with being healthy.

• 28:15Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 28:15Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right? And so thinness was celebrated. In fact, the thinner you are, the better, the better modeling career you got, right? Everything in the, everyone in the magazines were thin, right? And that was equated with good health.

• 28:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was the nineties.

• 28:29Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, that was the nineties, exactly. And sadly, like, a lot of those thin people were very, very unhealthy and very sick.

• 28:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. I think the important thing here as well is that body shapes and sizes differ so much. And that's something I only really understood when I entered the modeling world, because at school I was naturally slim, and I would actually be picked on for it.

• 28:53Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 28:53Speaker 01

  And I hated it, because I never was the girl that had the boobs and the hips and all of those things that made all girls sexy at my school. And all the boys, you know, would want those girls that went through puberty and had the boobs and had the bum. And I remember going for my shopping with my first bra and crying, because the woman was like, oh, she needs a training bra. And I was like, no, I don't want that. And I remember hating it. And then all of a sudden, it became an asset of mine when I was modeling.

• 29:23Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 29:23Speaker 01

  So also that mindset shift was a huge thing for me, because I was like, no way, I feel like I've never been sexy or desirable, because I've not had shape.

• 29:33Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 29:33Speaker 01

  And it's interesting, there's also girls that have bigger hips that come into modeling that are incredibly thin.

• 29:39Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 29:39Speaker 01

  But they're like, oh, your hips are too big. And that's also so hard for somebody to get their head around, because that's your hips.

• 29:47Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 29:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, unless you shave your bone. You can't change it. And so I find that's like a really interesting conversation, that, you know, part of being picked as a model is not just how you look, it's how your body shape is, which like, you don't have any control over. And that's why it can become quite toxic, because you're always trying to fit into a size that isn't right. And if you're picked at sixteen, and then you turn up modeling at twenty-one still, I mean, you have changed shape. Hormonally, everything, you've you've you're completely different from a sixteen year old.

• 30:18Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 30:18Speaker 01

  And that's when it can get really confusing for most girls.

• 30:22Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, I mean, it just sounds so emotionally traumatic to go through this as a young woman. Maybe even a young man too, but.

• 30:28Speaker 01

  But young men is just as bad.

• 30:30Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 30:31Speaker 01

  It's just as bad, and I think they don't get a look at as much. I think men in general, you know, men with their health, I think since social media has risen.

• 30:39Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Uh huh.

• 30:39Speaker 01

  The body dysmorphia has increased more in men than it has in women.

• 30:42Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Hmm.

• 30:42Speaker 01

  Which is really interesting.

• 30:44Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 30:44Speaker 01

  You know, there's like lots of places around the world, like Fiji is one, where commercials weren't put into Fiji until, I think it was the sixties, but I need to, I can't remember the exact date. But when commercial adverts went in off soap operas, it really changed how women saw themselves, because until then, women were seen as strong.

• 31:02Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Hmm.

• 31:02Speaker 01

  And powerful when they had muscles and they had more curves. And that's how women were naturally represented. That's also the culture.

• 31:09Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Hmm.

• 31:09Speaker 01

  And as soon as like the Western soap operas came in, eating disorder rates rose.

• 31:14Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Like. Really?

• 31:15Speaker 01

  So quickly.

• 31:16Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Wow.

• 31:17Speaker 01

  All from how we're showing the idolized version on TV.

• 31:21Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 31:21Speaker 01

  And that's really interesting, because that's that's you can actually see a country shift from what they think was desirable until what is now.

• 31:28Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 31:29Speaker 01

  And so that's what's really interesting. Now we're seeing with social media, the boys and men are getting it much more. From, you know, like the ripped physique, and you think, I'm sure you get this in your clinic with men that wanna come on steroids and.

• 31:40Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 31:40Speaker 01

  Testosterone treatment, which can be really damaging for fertility and all of these things.

• 31:44Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Uh huh.

• 31:45Speaker 01

  And but the pressures that men now feel is kind of connected to the social media scene as well. So it's it's really interesting. It's on both camps.

• 31:53Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I mean, there are men doing plastic surgery to get a six pack and, you know, get chest muscles, they're getting implants now too. So it's really, social media has really been a massive. Push for people to, you know, seek cosmetic procedures at a very young age because of exactly what you're talking about.

• 32:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I think that's, you know, in the beginning, when I reference, modeling is now very similar to the world that we live in. I say that because when I was modeling, it was a very specific circle that were around comparison all the time.

• 32:22Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Uh huh.

• 32:22Speaker 01

  So I compared myself twenty four seven to people I lived with, to when I was at a casting, to who I was at dinner with. We were all going for the same jobs. You were in this like very circular world.

• 32:32Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Uh huh.

• 32:33Speaker 01

  But outside of that, you know, my friends from back home were never comparing themselves day in, day out. They might compare themselves if they went out for an evening, but they weren't waking up comparing themselves. I woke up comparing myself every day. That's the world we live in now.

• 32:45Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 32:45Speaker 01

  Like now, everyone, I feel like the pressures that I had, which is why I think talking about self compassion is really important, the pressures I had back then, not that many people had as much. But now, people wake up and the first thing we do is look at our phones.

• 32:58Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 32:59Speaker 01

  The first thing majority people would do were open social media. And so all of a sudden, you're compounded to all the amazing things that everyone else has, how they're looking, the best start to their day. When you're maybe not feeling in your best headspace. And so that like compounding of comparison.

• 33:14Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 33:14Speaker 01

  And all the social media outlets that we have, as well as like just the traditional advertising. Is now in this like hyper compromised world that we all live in, which is just full of comparison.

• 33:24Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 33:24Speaker 01

  And comparison is the thief of joy, so.

• 33:27Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Hmm, comparison is a thief of joy. So what's the solution? How do we, how do we stop all this comparison of ourselves and our bodies to other people and, and get self compassion back?

• 33:38Speaker 01

  I think first of all, like connecting to what self compassion is.

• 33:41Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 33:41Speaker 01

  Cause I think a lot of people get confused. I mean, I, I say that, and I'm speaking personally, like I would think self compassion was very narcissistic. You know, when I would start looking at it, I'd be like, that's crazy. Like, I'm not gonna like myself. Like, who would do that? But actually, just being kind to yourself is not narcissistical, it's not self pity. And we know that when people are more self compassionate, especially in health behaviours, they're way more motivated. So we think self compassion dampens our motivation, it actually motivates us. It's like, imagine every day going into work and somebody putting you down.

• 34:14Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 34:14Speaker 01

  After a while, you're like, I don't wanna be here.

• 34:16Dr. Darshan Shah?

  That's so true.

• 34:17Speaker 01

  It's every, if every day you're going in and someone's being really supportive, but also giving you constructive criticism, like, do you know what, Dash, and that, that was really great what you did today. This part, I'd love to help you on, because I feel like you might be a little bit confused here, and how can I support you in that? It's such a better way than, you're a loser, what are you doing?

• 34:35Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes.

• 34:36Speaker 01

  Like, you're not gonna wanna go to work every day. And that's how we talk to ourselves. And so what we know from research is people. That are more self compassionate are way more better to do with their health behaviours. They're way more likely to connect to it, to keep to it, to stick to it long term. Because a lot of studies that they look at are done within twelve weeks, three months.

• 34:55Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 34:55Speaker 01

  Six months.

• 34:55Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 34:56Speaker 01

  They're not long term studies.

• 34:57Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 34:58Speaker 01

  And so we know that like self compassion is a really important indicator and component of keeping these health behaviours.

• 35:03Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 35:04Speaker 01

  And also, when you're in a like kinder state, you're naturally going to make better decisions for yourself. And so I think like getting to understand what self compassion is, not being afraid of it, is really, really important. Connecting to the self empathy, connecting to how you're feeling, asking yourself these questions is really important.

• 35:22Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 35:22Speaker 01

  But also sharing it with a friend, you know, asking yourself the same question, and it's a very easy one to do, but saying, would I say this to my friend?

• 35:31Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Hmm.

• 35:31Speaker 01

  If the answer is no, then you shouldn't be saying it to yourself.

• 35:35Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Ah, so you're saying is if you're verbalizing something to yourself internally, if it's not something you would tell your friend, why are you telling yourself the same thing?

• 35:44Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 35:44Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Looking in the mirror and saying, you know, you're fat, like, or you're whatever, you're under muscled or whatever, right? Like, you don't look good. You would never say that to a friend.

• 35:54Speaker 01

  You would never.

• 35:55Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 35:55Speaker 01

  Or if you did, like, you're not a very good friend.

• 35:57Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, exactly.

• 35:58Speaker 01

  You know, and see, it's interesting. I think about it a lot and we all have self criticism thoughts, you know, we have sixty to eighty thousand thoughts a day. You know, and eighty percent of them are negative.

• 36:09Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Really? Eighty percent are negative?

• 36:11Speaker 01

  Eighty percent are negative.

• 36:12Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Eighty percent of our thoughts.

• 36:13Speaker 01

  Are negative.

• 36:13Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Are negative throughout a day.

• 36:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, and you need three positive comments to balance one negative one.

• 36:19Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Hmm, that's not happening if eighty percent are negative.

• 36:22Speaker 01

  Right?

• 36:23Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 36:23Speaker 01

  So all we're doing, we're unconscious and we're mostly unconscious about it. What I find really interesting is writing down. It can be a laborious exercise, but it can be amazing to do for one day. Every time one of those like bad thoughts pops in, just note it down.

• 36:35Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Oh, yeah.

• 36:36Speaker 01

  And you realise over time how much is going on in our mind. It's because you've become very habitual, because our brain has evolved to be this way. That's the other thing.

• 36:46Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 36:46Speaker 01

  You know, we're naturally evolved to be way more critical because it's survival.

• 36:51Dr. Darshan Shah?

  It's survival.

• 36:51Speaker 01

  But now we live in a world. Where we have daily stresses way more than we used to. That just doesn't serve us the way that it used to serve us from running away from a lion or being very vigilant. We don't need that vigilant as much anymore.

• 37:04Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 37:05Speaker 01

  And so to try and equate that and try and be more compassionate. Cause I don't agree with trying to be more positive. If someone says to me, just be more positive, I wanna shake them.

• 37:15Dr. Darshan Shah?

  That's the, that's the UK in you.

• 37:17Speaker 01

  It is. Well, I think that sometimes you can't find positivity.

• 37:21Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, right, right.

• 37:21Speaker 01

  Like, cause compassion isn't about being positive, right? It's about acceptance.

• 37:24Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes.

• 37:25Speaker 01

  It's about like, okay, do you know what? This is tough.

• 37:28Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 37:28Speaker 01

  But it's really, and sometimes you can think positive, but there are many times when people really struggle. And I think that can make people feel worse. Well, like, why can't I think positive? What's wrong with me? And so I think having that compassion is like, okay, do you know what? Today maybe I don't. And do you know what? That's okay. And feeling worse about myself, is that gonna make it better? No. Can I give myself a break? Do you know what? Yeah, I can. What do I need right now? I need to go for a walk. Like, that's really compassionate. And it's way better than spinning yourself out and like, why can't I just be positive?

• 38:01Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 38:01Speaker 01

  Why can't everyone else around me seem to do this so easily and I can't? That's the difference between compassion and, and the kind of positivity. I think positivity is amazing. And I think if we can be in that mindset, it's, it's the best. That's ultimately what we all wanna get to.

• 38:14Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 38:15Speaker 01

  But life is an interesting life and we're gonna have times every day where we eat that chocolate cake. Or we order an Uber Eats or we stay out too late, like, cause we're human.

• 38:27Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah. I also think when you, you know, when you lack self compassion. You also make choices that are not in your best interest and you. You know, you make choices that take you down a path that you didn't want. That's not a positive path to go down sometimes, right? Because you just are not doing what serves you. And you end up making decisions and choices that keep you on that path of not serving you, right? And maybe you're trying to do this in service for other people. Maybe you're trying to do this in service of, you know, a job like you did, maybe modeling, right? And so it just adds up. The bad choices just add up over time.

• 39:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. And we could be stuck in that loop and not see it.

• 39:08Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 39:08Speaker 01

  And so that's where kind of the mindfulness comes in.

• 39:11Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes.

• 39:12Speaker 01

  You know, like the the check in with yourself is really important to start understanding like, how are you speaking to yourself? Because I was completely unconscious of it.

• 39:20Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 39:20Speaker 01

  And now, when I see clients and I ask them like, and how do you really feel? Or like, what is driving that? Like, why do you want that health outcome? Like, what is it behind that? It's really interesting. A lot of their conversation changes with me.

• 39:33Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Hmm.

• 39:33Speaker 01

  And actually, when we've worked on these parameters of self compassion, they've managed to stick to it, but they've come from a place of abundance as opposed to a place of lack.

• 39:42Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Got it. So, you know, this is so reminds me a lot of, you know, Gabby Bernstein is?

• 39:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:47Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, she's so sweet.

• 39:48Speaker 01

  She's amazing.

• 39:49Dr. Darshan Shah?

  She was on this podcast where I have this, it feels like, you know, a little bit of deja vu, because she wrote a book called Self Care, where she talks about internal family systems where.

• 39:58Speaker 01

  I F S.

• 39:59Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes.

• 39:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, amazing.

• 40:00Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Very amazing, right? Amazing. I never knew this existed until she told me about it. And then I've become like a huge student of this. And so it sounds very similar, right? Um, when you have a pause to really ask yourself, why are you feeling this way at this moment before you take an action?

• 40:18Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 40:19Dr. Darshan Shah?

  So that you have a moment to self reflect, right?

• 40:22Speaker 01

  Uh huh. Absolutely. Because also, it's interesting, like, we can talk about it from a very basic standpoint of like, asking yourself for what's actually going on is really interesting.

• 40:31Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Oh.

• 40:32Speaker 01

  Because that's what activates the rational brain. It doesn't bypass your amygdala. And so when we're stressed, we miss a chronic stage of like, the presence processing. And we bypass the amygdala and we go straight to the action.

• 40:46Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 40:46Speaker 01

  Because that's, you know, if there is a fire, say if a fire happens now, we're not going to go, how do we feel? We're gonna go run.

• 40:53Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 40:53Speaker 01

  Because that's going to save us from a fire exploding in this building.

• 40:57Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 40:57Speaker 01

  But we're not around that every day.

• 40:59Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 40:59Speaker 01

  And so it's kind of understanding like, when do I need to run for the fire? And when do I actually need to sit here and make logical decisions?

• 41:05Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 41:05Speaker 01

  And that's really, like neurologically, that's why it's so important, because it activates the rational part of your brain to allow you to make clear decisions.

• 41:14Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 41:14Speaker 01

  So that's what's really important on that.

• 41:16Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I feel like, you know, part of that has eroded in. Modern society because we are always making really quick decisions constantly. Right. And we're doing so much task switching. Like, you know, you get a, you get a text message, you answer it right away. Cause the next thing you have to do is, you know, I don't know, write this email. Then right after you're done writing the email, then you have to go, you know, get in your car and drive somewhere to go on a podcast. And so you're like making quick decisions all the time without having to stop and think and check in with yourself. And that's where we're conditioned on a day to day basis. That when big decisions do come up, we just make the decisions too quickly without even checking in on ourselves.

• 41:56Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 41:56Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And then we, we come from a place of, like, like you said, you know, we come from a place of just acting like everything's an emergency when it's really not an emergency.

• 42:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 42:11Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Hi, Dr. Shaw here. I want to take a minute to talk to you about cellular health. So in my clinics, I've actually seen 30 year old people with cells that look like they're pushing retirement. And I've also seen 60 year olds with cells that look like they're 40 years old. So what's the difference? It's really about how fast their telomeres are breaking down. Your cells you see are like phones and they have limited cell phone battery. Poor sleep, stress, processed foods, all of these things can drain that battery way faster than it should. So this is the reason why I partnered with IM8. IM8 powers that cellular battery. It's not just another multivitamin. It's a comprehensive 92 ingredient formula designed specifically for cellular health and longevity.

• 42:56Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I'm talking 900 milligrams of vitamin C. That's like 20 oranges worth of DNA protection. The clinical dose of CoQ10 that you need to power your cellular engine. You also get zinc, selenium, vitamin E, alpha lipoic acid. All of these work synergistically for cellular repair and protecting your telomeres. So instead of taking a handful of pills every day and all these supplements, IM8 actually gives you everything that you need in one scientifically formulated system. And this isn't just a theory anymore. IM8 had partnered with Oxford University. University, the International Space Station, San Francisco Research Institute, and they've done studies and they've gotten this NSF certified to truly power your health. Most people are aging twice as fast as they should, unfortunately.

• 43:42Dr. Darshan Shah?

  You don't have to be one of them. Try IM8. I actually have a discount secured for you if you go to drshah.com/IM8 or go to im8health.com/discount/drsah and you can get 20% off with my discount code, drshah. You can also find the link below.

• 44:03Dr. Darshan Shah?

  So when you see clients now, so tell me about a little bit about your practice. Like what are you doing now and what kind of clients are you seeing?

• 44:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, so a real mixture. So I remember when I first started this and it was, it was, it was a real mixture of clients. It was people from high performing circles to CEOs to a mom that had just kind of wanted to get back to feeling herself. And it was really interesting because it was such a broad range of people that I was seeing. And I, I talk about them in two ways, which are two different types of people. You have the optimizers, the people that always really want to, you know, be in a high performing world and optimize and be their best. And you have the lapsers, the people that feel that they're always trying to get back on the wagon. They're always trying to like, they always feel like they've given up and they're trying again to get back on. And they're just, they feel, they always explain they're always like constant cycle. They're like lacking behind.

• 44:54Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 44:55Speaker 01

  And it was really interesting that when I would see these two very different sets of people, which was really interesting for me to see in my clinic, I'm not just treating one kind of person.

• 45:03Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Optimizers and lackers.

• 45:05Speaker 01

  And lapsers.

• 45:06Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Lapsers.

• 45:06Speaker 01

  The lapsers.

• 45:07Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Got it.

• 45:07Speaker 01

  They both had that not good enough feeling together. So the optimizers were coming from like, I can't do more, this person's doing better and always wanting to be that one step ahead. And the people that were the lapses that felt like they would start something and then fall off two weeks later would have such low self-worth and would never feel good enough about themselves and would always come in beating themselves up and always feeling like they're from a place of lack.

• 45:32Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Wow.

• 45:33Speaker 01

  And it was really interesting watching these two kind of subsets of people where I was like.

• 45:38Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Different personalities, different problems, but same, same, at the end of the day, coming from the same place of lack of self-love.

• 45:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, self-love, self-worth.

• 45:49Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 45:50Speaker 01

  All of it. And so it's when I started kind of asking them more about that area and where they saw their self-worth and self-compassion, I mean, like no one ever asked them that before. So they would, first of all, I not quite know how to answer the situation or the question that I'd work with them on. But as we developed that more, that totally changed how they then looked at themselves and their health. But these people are two totally different people.

• 46:12Dr. Darshan Shah?

  For sure, right.

• 46:13Speaker 01

  And it was interesting that they were both coming in, but they both struggled with the same thing. And I could also see parts of myself, like in both of their versions, you know. I definitely say I was probably more of the optimizer in my, my, like, in my natural way of being.

• 46:28Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Hmm.

• 46:28Speaker 01

  But it would always from needing to do more.

• 46:30Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And you would talk to them about th- this structure that you have around self-worth and self-compassion. And what kind of realizations would the optimizers have?

• 46:40Speaker 01

  Well, first of all, I think people would be like, why am I having to like, look at this or talk about this?

• 46:45Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 46:46Speaker 01

  And I would say, well, how long do you want your behavior to change for?

• 46:48Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 46:49Speaker 01

  And they'd be like, well, forever. And I was like, well, just if I tell you what to eat, that's not going to change your behavior. Like, I was like, you ultimately have all the knowledge. I want you to know that, that you ultimately know what to do. And they'd go, okay. And so the more that we would dig into it, and you could see it's because a lot of people feel uncomfortable because they're not used to talking about it. And they're like, wait, why am I here talking about this? But as they trusted me and softened with it, and I'd go off and I'd give them self-compassionate exercises to do, to think around food. Because, you know, the, the biggest thing is, I think we treat food in a silo, so connected to psychology, is so connected to how we feel about ourselves, is so connected to what's happening around us. Our emotions play a massive, massive part in food that we completely underestimate.

• 47:34Speaker 01

  And our mind is so powerful. And so when I would work more with them on the mindset piece, it totally changed the outcome. And then they would find themselves not in this negative cycle that they found themselves in before. And also they find themselves de-stressed. We put in different lifestyle interventions as well that would really help them, much more self-compassionate towards them. And basically, I say the words to them like, you need to let go. And you just see their shoulders drop, because that's what people feel when they're very stressed. They're very stressed, they're very tight. And actually, as soon as you tell someone like they can let go, you just see their body like relax. It's like they've given themselves this permission. And so when we started integrating way more self-compassionate work alongside their food, like it had massive effects for them.

• 48:20Speaker 01

  And so that's when I started to be like, well, there is something really here within how we should be approaching nutrition with people and health behaviours. You know, if we can, if we can start there, then the world's like someone's oyster on what they can do. And they're not chasing after something where they don't ever feel they're always two steps behind. Even if you're at the very top, you have a bad day, how do you get back up? You know, even if you're at the top all the time, I can, I can, I swear that people will come into you and say, I've done all the best things and they'll want that instant gratification of like, well done, you've done all of those things. But they won't want to tell you the things that they haven't done. You know, and that's because that they carry that. So allowing them to not feel that is really important.

• 49:00Speaker 01

  And so I think that, you know, we're just not aware of that as much because we also live in a culture where we think everyone's doing everything perfectly the whole time. And that isn't health, like you'll know that. Health isn't this perfect tick box of things and checklist. But I think a lot of us feel like that today.

• 49:16Dr. Darshan Shah?

  What kind of exercises around food do you give them? You said you gave them some exercises around food. What do you, what are some of the exercises?

• 49:23Speaker 01

  So the first thing that for when people come and see me, they have a kind of very big form to fill out. And within that form, you have like a self audit. So you also have things which every nutritionist will give you like a food diary. But within that food diary, I've got things of where are you eating? Who are you eating with? Are you hungry? People have no idea on their hunger signals. Um. I'll get them to do unknowingly somatic connections, which is more of how you feel within the self audit food diary. So they're filling out their food diary unbeknown. And then we've got all these other boxes of like, where are you eating? Who are you eating with? Are you alone? How do you feel? Where's your hunger level? And you can start seeing when people are feeling very stressed, very lonely, very low self worth. All of these moments start showing up.

• 50:07Speaker 01

  And it's interesting that I don't even have to do the work. They come to me and they're like, that exercise made me see myself in a whole different way. And they've naturally come to that conclusion of how they're eating, where they're eating, how they're feeling. People aren't always aware of how hungry they are. Half the time they're thirsty and food's a quicker solution than having some water. But how often they're eating in the evening, like what they're grabbing, why they're grabbing it? Have they given themselves any time? Because people often want to have a really great nutrition protocol, but give themselves no time to action it. And so they make these very like quick interactive decisions that aren't always the best. And so it's interesting, we have that. And then I also give them

• 50:47Speaker 01

  a big medical kind of form where they'll fill out their goals and how they're feeling within that is some certain questions that's quite important to see where their self compassion at school lies. And then alongside, we also have kind of a mental health form to see what their mental health is at the same time.

• 51:02Dr. Darshan Shah?

  So you scored their self compassion?

• 51:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:04Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Ah, how many questions?

• 51:05Speaker 01

  Without them knowing.

• 51:06Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes, without them knowing.

• 51:08Speaker 01

  Um. There's like nine questions in there.

• 51:09Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Oh, really? Can you tell me what some of those questions are? Are they secret?

• 51:14Speaker 01

  No, so there'll be things like, like. How how often do you have negative thoughts about yourself?

• 51:21Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Okay, that's pretty obvious, right?

• 51:23Speaker 01

  Pretty obvious, right? Then the next one will be, how often do you make your health decisions from a place of lack from a place of abundance? Then there'll be all different types of questions around, how often do they feel that they speak to themselves kindly? Does that make them feel uncomfortable? And all of these will be under different parts of the form where we're talking to them about food. And so they're not necessarily thinking, oh, this is like a mental health questionnaire. We also give them that because if they score very poorly on their mental health, then I will need to refer them to a psychiatrist or a therapist. Because that's also really, really important for me to see, like, I need to see if somebody has disordered eating. Or if you have a really severe mental health problem, then it's really important that you're seeing a psychiatrist or a physician who can be trained in that.

• 52:04Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 52:05Speaker 01

  Who can then work alongside me like later down the line.

• 52:07Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 52:08Speaker 01

  So it's all really important. So within those questions as well, I can also see where someone's mood is, how they're feeling. And all of these are really important questions for when you go and have anything done with health. Because if your mindset is not in the best place, it's going to be really difficult for you to make those decisions. Also, if your stress is insanely high, like I have a big stress score as well, that's also going to impact. How are you going to maintain these health behaviours? Are you coming here because you're feeling you're trying to fix your stress or because we actually are going to work on this as a long term protocol?

• 52:40Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, behaviour change is such a hard part of getting your health right. It's massively difficult and we we struggle a lot with that with patients. It's, you know, we tell them all the right, like I said at the beginning of this podcast, we tell them all the right things to do. People either never start doing it or they do it for like a week and they fall off.

• 52:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:56Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And it's, I think that you've hit upon something really powerful, which is really understanding the whys behind the health changes that you're wanting, right? And I think people should start there before they go on any health journeys, understand the why.

• 53:10Speaker 01

  The biggest.

• 53:11Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right? And then understand why they're doing the things they're doing and why they're also wanting to make the change.

• 53:17Speaker 01

  Uh huh, because that's going to last.

• 53:19Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 53:19Speaker 01

  If it's just to look good in a bikini, like ultimately, what what does that mean for you?

• 53:23Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 53:24Speaker 01

  Is that because you don't feel good enough in a bikini now? Like, what what what's the underlying understanding behind that? Because people just go, I just want to look good in a holiday, but. So why don't you feel good about how you look right now? Obviously, if there's health concerns, it's totally different. But if someone's in a good shape and they come to me with that question, it's really important to dial in on. Someone comes to me with a really intense supplement protocol, which a lot of people do, and they're on all of these things, and they're coming to me for more, they want more, the next level. I'm really interested in why that is. It's like, obviously, we all want to have really good health span. That's absolutely critical. But like, what's not working right now? Like, is it from a place of, gosh, I don't feel good enough?

• 54:07Speaker 01

  Or I'm worried about how I'm gonna be feeling? Or I'm worried, like, a lot of it comes from fear, as opposed to things that they feel that they're doing right? Very, very, I don't know how you feel about this, but very rarely will people come in and say, these things I feel like I'm doing really well.

• 54:21Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, very rarely.

• 54:22Speaker 01

  They're normally coming and say, these are all things that I'm really struggling with, I'm doing really wrong.

• 54:25Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, I know. It's almost always like, you know, what else could I be doing? Or what am I doing wrong? Kind of a thing, yeah.

• 54:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:32Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And then when you're seeing, um, you know, those are the optimizers, but there's also these other group of people, the lapsers, that keep falling off the wagon. I see that a lot as well. So what's, what's happening there with those people?

• 54:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, so that is all, so that's a real mixture. And I always think about the case study of a mum. As someone who is trying to do twenty million things, I feel like a woman is a very kind of great one to talk about here, because women are now trying to work, trying to have children, trying to have a social life, trying to also feel and look good. Like, there's just a lot of components there that can feel a lot for a woman, and they normally put themselves last. And so for that person that's maybe thirty-nine, got two children, trying to have a career but struggling, maybe isn't part-time because she's really wants to be with her children, she's always feeling that she's like at the end of her game.

• 55:27Speaker 01

  And every time she opens up something on social media, somebody's doing like a seven AM morning class, and she's like, well, I already feel shit about myself. So then the quickest way is to try and approach it through food. Okay, well, I'm gonna like reduce my diet. And then they reduce it so quickly that they feel awful. And then they have a huge crash and then they start, you know, having a binge at

• 55:47Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 55:48Speaker 01

  five AM because they're like, I'm starving and I've woken up and I need to eat something. Because they're not regulated. And so it's this quick fix of I don't feel good about myself. So what's the quickest way I can try and feel better, which is such a human behaviour. We all have that.

• 56:02Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 56:02Speaker 01

  We wanna feel better about ourselves quite quickly and we don't feel great.

• 56:05Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 56:06Speaker 01

  But the thing is, like, a lot of these ones don't last because they're they're quick fixes. And you know this, like, health is not naturally a quick fix.

• 56:12Dr. Darshan Shah?

  No, it's a habit that you need to get into, right?

• 56:14Speaker 01

  It's a habit. And the reason why people kind of fall off and on was what I see. Is because all of this is coming from the place of like, right, I'm gonna try this now to make myself feel better. But actually, like, we need to start with feeling better first and then trying these.

• 56:29Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 56:29Speaker 01

  And so once we can try and give that person the self-worth that they are good enough. Like, doing this isn't gonna make you any better as a person. Like, it's not gonna change your character. Like, you might feel better long term and this is the goal that we really wanna get to. But ultimately, we need you to feel that you're good enough now. Because that's the motivation that's gonna stick in your brain when you're trying to do these quick fixes. To know that you don't need to do that. We can look at the long-term health plan to make you feel where you wanna be. But you are still good enough where you are now.

• 57:00Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Hmm.

• 57:01Speaker 01

  And having that inside of you is what maintains you to keep these health behaviours up. To not go onto these real extremes of, you know, strict intermittent fasting that doesn't work for a lot of women. Or really small, like, calorie diets, like, juice diets, like, all of these things that send our ghrelin hu- hunger hormones all over the place. You know, make us feel depressed because we get such a drop on our neurotransmitters. You know, like, my gut microbiome doesn't get fed and then we're undernourished and all of these things. And then our body is like, feed me, feed me, feed me. And then you need a quick hit of carbohydrates because your body is screaming. And so when those people go on those kind of on-off, on-off, on-off.

• 57:43Speaker 01

  The body's trying to regulate and inside you're searching for the answer that's finally gonna make you feel good about yourself. Like, if I just do this thing, I just hit this on the scales, I'm finally gonna be good enough.

• 57:55Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 57:55Speaker 01

  And that's, that's what a lot of us are chasing and in the lapses side that I see.

• 58:00Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, I do a lot of speaking engagements on, you know, overall health and how to be healthy, how to stay healthy. And the question I always get from people is like, what's the best diet? And any, in my view, any name diet is not, is not the best diet because it's something you're only going to do for a little while. You know, whether it be grapefruits or protein cookies or, you know, whatever, have you, right? And I tell people, it's really the habit that you have around foods. And so are you eating your carbohydrates first and gorging on carbohydrates? And then that's how you start every meal or do you start your meal with protein and fiber first, right? Like nutrients versus non nutrient dense foods.

• 58:41Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 58:42Dr. Darshan Shah?

  The, like you said, like, you know, the essential fatty acids or, you know, horrible trans fats, donuts and, you know, processed meats, right?

• 58:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:51Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And so like getting the right habits is so fundamental around food. And it's way better to focus on that than just any name diet for a temporary intervention.

• 59:02Speaker 01

  Totally. And that rigidity, I mean, the funny thing I find is diet, if you take off the word T, what do you get?

• 59:07Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, diet.

• 59:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's, I'm like, that's been a lot of appetizing. But it's interesting that when we live in that such restriction as well, and same with optimization, our stress hormones rise, you know, we can feel a lot more stress about their rigidity.

• 59:20Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 59:21Speaker 01

  And if we feel that we've done something bad, again, our stress hormones rise. We know the number one killer in the UK and, and I mean, obviously it's dementia and cardiovascular disease here, but actually we know the compounding variable is stress.

• 59:33Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 59:34Speaker 01

  And so when you're thinking about like, when it comes to your health, if a plan or a routine or a diet or is stressing you out, you are counteracting what you're trying to achieve.

• 59:43Dr. Darshan Shah?

  You're causing more, more damage than good.

• 59:46Speaker 01

  This is what I mean. And I think with these, whether it's a really extreme diet or a really extreme like way of living or lifestyle, if it's causing you stress, ultimately you're counteracting the outcome you're trying to get because you're keeping yourself so rigid and narrow. I think we can have amazing parts within our diet and lifestyle habits. And I'm such a believer in, you know, good nutrition, good movement, good sleep, good rest, good recovery, good community, good friends, good relationships, good hydration, like we need all of these things. And I think we can also then do things to build on top of them to increase our lifespan even more. But if we're not doing it from a place where we're not stressed, if we're adding stress to that, then you completely wipe out all of the basics. And I think that's where I see a lot of us going wrong.

• 1:00:30Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes, exactly.

• 1:00:31Speaker 01

  And I think that's the most important thing. There's a, do you know Leah Crumb from Stanford?

• 1:00:36Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes, I do.

• 1:00:37Speaker 01

  Her stuff and mindset. So that's where I started getting connected to the world of self compassion, because she's very focused on stress and mindset in her research. And she's, she's phenomenal. I find her work really inspiring. And she did this amazing study where she did an RCT and she gave um two groups, completely randomized, a mill. And then she wanted to understand about DNA profiling, because you know, you can all get your DNA tests now and you can get them back on your phone. You can be like, oh, I've got this gene and I've got the FTO gene, which means I'm more predisposed to being metabolically unhealthy. So she was like, I'm interested on how people will receive this information. So she gave two sets of people or groups some food.

• 1:01:19Speaker 01

  She took their bloods, she invited them back. And then she said to one group, this is completely randomized, you have the FTO gene, which means that you're more predisposed to become fat, basically, or metabolically unhealthy. And she said to the second group, you're not. And she kind of gave them reading material on each. So the people that thought they had the FTO gene, again randomized, were obviously very attuned to knowing that any food that they ate had a consequence. When she took their blood tests afterwards, it was really different. They hormonally responded to the same mill completely differently. Their ghrelin levels rise, which is your hunger hormone. They both had different experiences the second time around. But they had the same environment and the same food, but the only thing that was changed was the words that they spoke to themselves.

• 1:02:04Speaker 01

  And you can imagine the people in the FTO gene were much more stressed

• 1:02:07Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 1:02:07Speaker 01

  about the food that they were about to eat, because they were like, wow, this is going to make me put on weight.

• 1:02:11Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes.

• 1:02:12Speaker 01

  Whereas the week before, they didn't have those thoughts. And so if we're delivering. You know, that's what I think about when I'm in clinic. If I'm delivering food, saying this is the types of food that will be really great for you. But they're having a negative mindset and it's not going to have the outcome that they want.

• 1:02:26Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Exactly.

• 1:02:27Speaker 01

  So one is not only maintained long term, but two is having a completely different physiological effect in their body.

• 1:02:32Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:33Speaker 01

  And it's, you know, there's so many studies like this, like the milkshake study is another very famous study. And so I think that's the, the interesting key piece for me that I'm very fascinated in.

• 1:02:43Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, it's so incredible, the work that you're doing tying mindset to nutrition. And I think it's important for people to realize is a huge piece of the puzzle. When they're trying to get their health in order, not just around nutrition, but also all the lifestyle interventions. It seems even more foundational than even nutrition, exercise, sleep, like even before that comes a mindset.

• 1:03:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like the number one, I think it's like the bricks and mortar.

• 1:03:06Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:07Speaker 01

  Of the house. If, if you've got a steady foundation, everything else becomes a little bit easier. Like the sleep becomes a bit easier, the nutrition becomes a bit easier, the movement. You also make decisions that you're also not gonna, something that I was very guilty of was over exercising. You know, cause I thought I gotta do this much zone two, this much hit, this, this much flexibility training. Because I was so acutely aware of all the things I had to do, I totally dissociated from what my body needed. And I didn't actually have any recovery in.

• 1:03:36Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:37Speaker 01

  So once you actually connect to, like, actually, what is it that I, what does my friend need today? If you step into their shoes, it's very good exercise.

• 1:03:44Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 1:03:44Speaker 01

  If you think about Freaky Friday, have you seen that with Lindsay Lohan?

• 1:03:48Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes, absolutely.

• 1:03:48Speaker 01

  When her mom and her changed bodies.

• 1:03:50Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yep.

• 1:03:51Speaker 01

  I always think about doing that with someone that you love.

• 1:03:52Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Uh huh.

• 1:03:53Speaker 01

  So go into Freaky Friday, change bodies, and when you go and exercise, be like, what do I need today? Sometimes you'll feel like, actually, I feel like I can do way more than I thought I could do. And you can push yourself harder. And other days you'll be like, actually, I don't think this body needs as much intensity as I thought it did. It needs more recovery, but it's so much easier to do it with someone else.

• 1:04:15Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:15Speaker 01

  Than yourself. So it's a really good stepping point to self compassion work.

• 1:04:19Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, that's a really good way of getting some practice in, but pretending you're in someone else's body.

• 1:04:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, that you love. That you obviously care about.

• 1:04:26Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes, yes. Well, I love this and I'm so glad for you to shed light to this part of wellness that is very not often talked about. And you're writing a book about this, or you're gonna have a book out very soon, right?

• 1:04:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, 2026. May, 23rd of May, it comes out, 2026.

• 1:04:43Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Congratulations.

• 1:04:44Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:04:44Dr. Darshan Shah?

  What's the book called?

• 1:04:46Speaker 01

  Healthy Shouldn't Be This Hard.

• 1:04:47Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Healthy Shouldn't Be This Hard. I love it. And people can preorder this book?

• 1:04:51Speaker 01

  They can preorder the book. I can give you the links and pop it in the show notes.

• 1:04:54Dr. Darshan Shah?

  We're gonna put the link in the show notes for sure.

• 1:04:56Speaker 01

  That'd be amazing. Thank you.

• 1:04:58Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Where can people hear more from you? I know you have an incredible podcast too.

• 1:05:01Speaker 01

  I do. You're gonna come on it.

• 1:05:03Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes, I will.

• 1:05:05Speaker 01

  So we have the podcast Live Far B Well, which has been like, started off as a passion project and now it's a full-time, that's my full-time business, which I love. So definitely check that out. I also have my clinic, but you can also check me out on Instagram, Sarah Macklin, my website. It's all my name, so.

• 1:05:22Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Sarah Macklin.

• 1:05:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, Sarah Anne Macklin.

• 1:05:25Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Sarah Anne Macklin. Got it. Perfect.

• 1:05:27Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:05:28Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Really appreciate you being here. It's such an honor to have you and thank you so much for this and I look forward to joining you again soon.

• 1:05:34Speaker 01

  Thank you, Dash, and this has been amazing.

• 1:05:41Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Before we wrap up today, I'm gonna give you my top five takeaways from my conversation with Sarah Anne Macklin. Number one, self-compassion is the foundation of lasting health. We're taught to be kind to others, but never to ourselves. Yet, the way you speak to yourself dictates your choices, your behaviors, and long-term well-being. Number two, stress can mimic illness across the entire body. At 23, Sarah became severely unwell and saw multiple specialists, only to realize the root cause was stress. It shifted her entire perspective on health and the importance of whole-person care. Number three, nutrition and mental health are deeply connected. Trials like the SMILE study show that diet can reduce

• 1:06:26Dr. Darshan Shah?

  or eliminate symptoms of depression, and combining nutrition with social connection can be even more powerful. Number four, comparison culture fuels A crisis of self-worth. From body image pressures and modeling to social media today, constant comparison disconnects us from ourselves. Self-compassion restores clarity and healthier decision-making. Number five, lasting change starts with mindset, not the perfect diet. Whether working with overachievers or overwhelmed parents, Sarah sees the same pattern. Without self-worth and internal motivation, no diet sticks. The best diet is consistent habits.

• 1:07:07Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Protein and veggies first, whole foods, less restriction and more variety.

• 1:07:14Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Thank you so much for listening to the podcast today. Please remember to subscribe if you liked this episode and give us a good review and share a link with your friends. It really helps to support all of our efforts. I also want to remind you that the information shared on this podcast is for educational purposes only and is not intended to replace professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Please consult with your healthcare provider or physician before making any decisions or taking any action based on what you hear today, especially if you have any underlying health conditions or on any medications. Your doctor knows your personal health situation the best and it's always important to seek their guidance.