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Transcript 14,394 words · 3 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:04 Doug DeMuro? Hello and welcome to this car pod! I'm Kenan.
0:08 Speaker 01 I'm Filippo.
0:08 Doug DeMuro? And today, we have a lot of great stuff to talk about, starting with the biggest thing of all. We've launched a new video series where we've all bought cars, me, Kenan, Filippo, and our friend Nick. Yeah. And we're gonna do fun things with them for a few videos. Ooh. The very first video is live right now. And there will be two more where we do challenges and other craziness. We are doing Top Gear here at the Cars and Bids office.
0:36 Speaker 01 And in the desert.
0:37 Doug DeMuro? And in the desert, which you will see. Now, the reason for the video series is we've just launched a new merch line. I'm wearing some, Filippo is not, but other people will. And if you buy our merch, you can be registered to win one of the cars from the challenge. You can pick. The winner will pick The Corvette. The car they want. No one will pick the Corvette, but yes. You can go to merch.carsandbids.com for a lot more details. All the rules on the contest are at merch.carsandbids.com. No purchase necessary, void where prohibited.
1:11 Speaker 01 Nice, well done.
1:14 Doug DeMuro? But at the end of the challenge, at the end of our merch giveaway, the winner will be able to pick one of the cars, except for Nick's, which he personally owns. He's gonna have that one. You gotta pick one of the other ones. And you're gonna pick the M5, probably. Uh, that's our video series, and it's very exciting. And there's gonna be a few more, and you should watch and participate and play along at home.
1:35 Doug DeMuro? Okay, on to the new stories. Give us the first one.
1:37 Speaker 01 All right. Lucid teased on social media that they had... So you know how, like, police departments do testing to figure out their next pursuit vehicle? Uh, Lucid has entered that competition, and they were... They're part of the testing for the next pursuit vehicle in California, I think.
1:50 Doug DeMuro? Right.
1:51 Speaker 01 And the Lucid Air is one of them.
1:52 Doug DeMuro? It's odd, because the Lucid Air is an expensive car.
1:55 Speaker 01 Well, it's gotten cheaper, plus lease deals, I don't know.
1:59 Doug DeMuro? I don't think you can lease up police, they like drill holes.
2:02 Speaker 01 Right, I know, but I think they could probably make it. I think Lucid's looking for sales.
2:05 Doug DeMuro? Lucid.
2:05 Speaker 01 Also, that looks good.
2:07 Speaker 02 It does look good, I'll give you that.
2:08 Doug DeMuro? I think a lot of cars would look good as police vehicles.
2:11 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:11 Doug DeMuro? However, that doesn't necessarily mean they would be a good police.
2:15 Speaker 02 You know, it's a tool at the end of the day.
2:17 Speaker 01 It's one of the longest range EVs. It's got a large backseat.
2:20 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
2:21 Speaker 01 That's all you need.
2:22 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, however, it costs a hundred and twenty-five thousand dollars.
2:25 Speaker 01 No, the, the, the air purifier is like seventy now.
2:27 Doug DeMuro? Okay, but what's a, what's a charger?
2:29 Speaker 01 I assumed also, I don't know. I don't know how much.
2:32 Doug DeMuro? I think you're assuming wrong. I think the charger is less.
2:36 Speaker 01 But like, how much, like Ford Explorer is like a fifty thousand dollar car. Presumably the pursuit vehicle is also a fifty, sixty thousand dollar car.
2:41 Doug DeMuro? Well, yeah, but that, after they add stuff, but when they add stuff to this, it's also gonna be expensive. At least it's got deep dish stealies.
2:47 Speaker 01 I know, isn't that cool?
2:47 Speaker 02 So cool.
2:48 Doug DeMuro? Anyway, I think the whole thing's unusual. I will say, are we thinking that this is a desperation play from Lucid? Is that what?
2:53 Speaker 01 I, I mean.
2:54 Speaker 02 Yup.
2:55 Speaker 01 It's questionable, but it does look cool. And if that post probably performed great on Instagram.
2:59 Doug DeMuro? Here's a story for you. I went to Canada to film a collab with this Canadian tech YouTuber, Linus Techs.
3:04 Speaker 01 And very well-known tech YouTuber.
3:06 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, yeah, no, I don't know if you know him. You don't why, you don't know anything about building the PC, me and Kenan, we.
3:10 Speaker 01 And even I know.
3:11 Speaker 02 I've done it in the past.
3:12 Doug DeMuro? Anyway, so I was showing him the website and I showed him, because we were talking about electric cars and I was showing him Lucid Air results and how cheap they are. And he goes, no offense, but if this is all that your website is getting for these cars, why would anyone want to use your website to sell a car? And I was like, you don't understand. This is what they're worth.
3:28 Speaker 01 That's what they all sell for. These are actually strong results.
3:30 Doug DeMuro? Pretty good result, actually.
3:32 Speaker 01 Yeah.
3:33 Doug DeMuro? So needless to say, the Lucid Air demand has not been huge.
3:37 Speaker 01 I think that they are hoping that they can be supported by many police departments around the country.
3:42 Doug DeMuro? By the way, I should put a little caveat here. Lucid Air demand has been bad. The cars are tanking in value. I love them. I think they're awesome.
3:47 Speaker 01 They're so good.
3:47 Speaker 02 Yeah, they're great.
3:48 Doug DeMuro? They're just really expensive for what they are. And no one really wants them.
3:51 Speaker 01 But as a police car with stealies, looks great.
3:53 Speaker 02 And they use lasers, they're like lane guidance thing and it sets off the radar detector on the E395 all the time.
3:59 Doug DeMuro? Really?
3:59 Speaker 02 When it goes off and there's laser in a place where it wouldn't be, I'm like, it's a Lucid. And then boom, there it is, every time. So it would continue to go off, but this time it actually would be laser.
4:09 Speaker 01 No, that'd be so problematic. Can I say one thing about other police cars?
4:12 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
4:12 Speaker 01 All right. You know how the Charger for a long time was the police car of choice?
4:16 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
4:16 Speaker 01 All right. Charger was discontinued last year.
4:18 Doug DeMuro? Yep.
4:18 Speaker 01 There are still 5,000 Chargers and Challengers on dealer lots.
4:21 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
4:21 Speaker 01 Fun fact, they stopped production a year ago.
4:23 Doug DeMuro? Wow.
4:24 Speaker 01 Wow. Rough situation.
4:25 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
4:26 Speaker 01 There will be a new Charger. Theoretically, then at this year, the Charger EV will be out.
4:30 Doug DeMuro? You know, we were, the story we were told was that the car was tremendously popular and they were only discontinuing it due to restrictions.
4:35 Speaker 01 Yeah.
4:36 Doug DeMuro? The 5,000 of them.
4:37 Speaker 01 Yeah.
4:37 Doug DeMuro? Doesn't sound. That's not a huge amount that they sell.
4:39 Speaker 01 They stopped production a year ago.
4:41 Doug DeMuro? Yeah. Wow. Does that include Trump Challenger?
4:44 Speaker 01 Yeah, but.
4:45 Doug DeMuro? And I'll sell them. Some of the most, some of those are demons that they haven't been titled at still on MSO.
4:49 Speaker 01 Right. True. 12 of them are demons that have been titled still on MSO. I will say, there was news this week that Dodge is moving up the launch of the gas powered Charger. Initially, their plan was to launch the EV at the end of this year, so in December, and then the gas one next December. Now they're moving it to early summer for the gas one. Hurricane powered.
5:09 Doug DeMuro? Yeah. I'm not surprised to hear that. I think the reality of the situation is simply that electric cars aren't having the impact that they were intended to have.
5:18 Speaker 01 As we talked about last week, probably even less so going forward.
5:21 Doug DeMuro? Yeah. So that's not really all that's surprising. I don't find 5,000 still on dealer lots to be that huge of a deal. They're gonna be fine. They'll sell them. You and me will get one. Okay, move on to the next news. Oh, this news story. Did you see this? This is all over everything. There's a Chrysler Dodge Jeep dealership apparently in Kentucky that when a Viper, when the Viper was new, the original Viper was new, they just put one on their sign in front and then they've since, they periodically remove it, you know, to like clean it and make it nice again. And they've done that this week. And so they, there were pictures of it with like rats nesting. Yeah, infested all over the interior like.
5:56 Speaker 01 Tragic.
5:56 Doug DeMuro? But it's gonna be down for a few months while they kind of fix it up and then they put it.
5:59 Speaker 01 Are they putting it back up?
6:00 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, they are. Now, a couple of interesting things. Go back to the shot. This sign is not compliant. This is not a Chrysler. So this dealership clearly is kind of doing their own thing, obviously, because they have to call out Scott's Crane Service to take a Viper off the sign. You think they call Scott and he's like, yep, all right, I was there eight years ago when we did it. I'm gonna do it again.
6:21 Speaker 01 The irony, of course, is that Dodge no longer sells any cars.
6:25 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
6:26 Speaker 01 So.
6:26 Doug DeMuro? Well, they got the, they got 5,000 challengers.
6:30 Doug DeMuro? Eight hundred of them here at, at this dealership. Anyway, uh, this was an interesting story. It was odd to me that they threw wheels on.
6:39 Speaker 02 Yeah, that is an interesting move.
6:41 Doug DeMuro? A lot of people put aftermarket wheels on original Vipers because they, the tire size, it became hard to find tires. But that's not really a problem of it for this car.
6:50 Speaker 02 It's not really in motion, you know? The birds don't mind. Date codes are expired.
6:56 Doug DeMuro? Date codes are old, yeah. Anyway, so that's an interesting situation. Uh, Filippo, any comment?
7:03 Speaker 01 No, only that you forgot to mention Ram is one of the brands at the dealership.
7:06 Doug DeMuro? Chrysler Dodge, Jeep, Ram.
7:08 Speaker 01 Mazurati.
7:09 Doug DeMuro? Presumably they have all the Fiat. Whenever Fiat decides they want to sell a car in the United States.
7:15 Speaker 01 Well, they, they hope to.
7:16 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, it's a tough situation.
7:17 Speaker 02 Oh.
7:18 Doug DeMuro? But how many people you think this brought in? How many neons did this sell back in the day that there was a Viper on the sign outside?
7:24 Speaker 01 So many.
7:24 Doug DeMuro? So many.
7:25 Speaker 02 Interesting.
7:26 Doug DeMuro? Worth every penny. This is advertising.
7:28 Speaker 02 Interesting use of a halo car. Put it literally above people.
7:31 Doug DeMuro? Well. If, remember the Audi R8 brought people into dealers and they bought A4s? Boom.
7:37 Speaker 02 Yeah. Got neons.
7:38 Speaker 01 Probably equally successful on the sign as just it existing.
7:41 Doug DeMuro? Beautiful situation. Okay, next news story, please. Ah, yes. Cadillac has announced a new electric SUV called the Vistique.
7:49 Speaker 01 Yep.
7:49 Doug DeMuro? Now Cadillac, I, I do find it interesting. They've decided to go back to naming their cars.
7:54 Speaker 01 Yeah.
7:54 Doug DeMuro? Um, which Lincoln pioneered. And by pioneered, I mean, they started doing it two years ago. Uh, but Cadillac has decided they're going to stop with the CT6, CT8, CTF. And all their electric cars seem to be having names like Vistique and Celestique.
8:11 Speaker 01 And they all have Qs.
8:12 Doug DeMuro? And Escalade IQ, which it should be Escalade.
8:15 Speaker 01 It should be Escalade. It really should be.
8:16 Doug DeMuro? Anyway, I don't know about this car and I don't know if they released any details. And even if they did, obviously we wouldn't remember.
8:21 Speaker 01 It's an electric car. It's like, it looks like it's XTS sized.
8:25 Doug DeMuro? But.
8:26 Speaker 01 Yeah.
8:27 Doug DeMuro? I will tell you this.
8:28 Speaker 01 Looks good.
8:28 Doug DeMuro? The Cadillac XT6 is a midsize sport utility vehicle.
8:31 Speaker 01 Call it an XTS. Oh, my goodness.
8:33 Doug DeMuro? They've been manufacturing for five or six years now. It's generally agreed to be middle of the road, not a high quality vehicle. However, I think it's beautiful.
8:40 Speaker 01 Looks great.
8:41 Doug DeMuro? Here is an electric version of it, essentially. It's like the same overall size. This looks like a nice car.
8:46 Speaker 01 It looks great.
8:46 Doug DeMuro? Weird.
8:47 Speaker 01 I, the lyric looks kinda weird, but it looks good. And the light treatment is excellent. If you see it at night, it looks so cool.
8:53 Speaker 02 It does look nice.
8:54 Doug DeMuro? This looks nice.
8:55 Speaker 01 This does look nice. I legitimately think it's one of Cadillac's best designs.
8:58 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
8:59 Speaker 01 That's a little bit much. This is like a little more restrained, a little classier.
9:03 Doug DeMuro? Right. Yeah. No, I think this looks good. The Escalade IQ especially is a little bit much. It's big and gaping.
9:08 Speaker 01 Okay. Long time ago, you sent me a photo of one around. I have not seen a single one.
9:13 Doug DeMuro? I saw one in July and here we are in November and it's not on sale.
9:18 Speaker 02 And San Diego is a great barometer for that because we get everything that's new and like.
9:22 Speaker 01 Except for Cadillac.
9:23 Doug DeMuro? Particular one I saw in Nantucket, but it had manufacturer plates. It wasn't a, it wasn't a.
9:27 Speaker 02 So you've even seen one owned by the public.
9:29 Speaker 01 No, I don't think it's for sale.
9:30 Doug DeMuro? It's no, it's still not on the market. Uh, it's a slow rollout. But anyway, I think that at the very least that this looks cool. Cadillac's really going hard on EVs. They.
9:39 Speaker 01 Which is gonna be questionable.
9:40 Doug DeMuro? Celestique with Vistique now. Isn't there a little one?
9:44 Speaker 01 There is one, a little one announced that I don't know what it's called, but it's some of the Q.
9:48 Doug DeMuro? They're going hard on EVs and the market is not. Every Lyric I see is a Uber Black. Do you agree?
9:52 Speaker 01 It's all Escalades and it's all.
9:54 Doug DeMuro? No, every Lyric.
9:55 Speaker 01 Every Lyric. I'm so sorry. Yeah. No, there's a few in our neighborhood that are, that are leased. Uh, they're leased.
10:04 Doug DeMuro? Highly subsidized leased. What are you, what can you lease one of those for?
10:07 Speaker 01 I'd say like in the 400s, I imagine. The Optic is the.
10:10 Doug DeMuro? The Uptiq.
10:11 Speaker 01 Is the small.
10:12 Doug DeMuro? Uptiq. Can you put up a picture of the Uptiq? I'd like to see what that looks like.
10:15 Speaker 01 It's OP. It's like Optic, but with a Q.
10:19 Doug DeMuro? Oh, no.
10:20 Speaker 01 Oh, no.
10:21 Speaker 02 Oh, with a Q. Yeah.
10:23 Speaker 01 It also looks good.
10:24 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
10:24 Speaker 01 But not as good.
10:25 Doug DeMuro? This is a Blazer EV.
10:26 Speaker 01 Yeah, or an Econox EV. I don't know what the chassis is.
10:29 Doug DeMuro? Yikes. Uh, well.
10:31 Speaker 01 The, the, the one we're just looking at, whatever it's called, looks better.
10:36 Speaker 01 Yeah, sure.
10:36 Doug DeMuro? It's hard to remember. They decided to go with names, but half the name on all the cars is the same. So instead of like XT, XT, XT, it's gonna be Eek, Eek, Eek on every car.
10:47 Speaker 02 All right, give us the next news story, please.
10:49 Doug DeMuro? Oh.
10:50 Speaker 01 A few weeks ago, we talked about the Passport, the Honda Passport, which is a smaller version of the Pilot, off-road version.
10:56 Doug DeMuro? Yep.
10:57 Speaker 01 That were, they were like teaser shots. And now it has been fully revealed and it looks good.
11:00 Doug DeMuro? It does look good. There's people talking about how it's a pretty legit off-roader.
11:04 Speaker 01 Yeah. In the same way that like, all of these are vaguely legit off. They say that a now back wilderness is a legit off-roader.
11:10 Doug DeMuro? But the 4Runner is a legit.
11:11 Speaker 01 No, it's not like that. No.
11:12 Doug DeMuro? But why not do that?
11:14 Speaker 01 Well, because they would have to build, they don't build trucks. They don't know. The last truck they built was at Azusa Rodeo.
11:19 Doug DeMuro? It's all marketing them. This car has more cool stuff than the previous Passport.
11:25 Speaker 01 The previous Passport was literally a Pilot, just shrunk a little bit.
11:29 Doug DeMuro? Right.
11:29 Speaker 01 This looks at least a little bit different. Looks cool. The orange DRLs look good.
11:34 Doug DeMuro? They do.
11:35 Speaker 01 And the side profile shots also look pretty good. It's a, it's a good looking car.
11:38 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, no, I agree with that. It is a nice looking car. I'm always concerned about the reality of an off-road vehicle if it doesn't have body on frame and all sorts of.
11:49 Speaker 01 Nobody cares. Everybody just wants it to look like a酷酷off-road. What do you want?
11:53 Doug DeMuro? From, what do you want from your off-roading vehicle?
11:55 Speaker 02 I want it to say 70 series Land Cruiser. That's what I want.
11:57 Doug DeMuro? You won't accept anything short of a 70 series Land Cruiser. You know what this has that the 70 series doesn't have? Stowable picnic table.
12:05 Speaker 01 Like the old CRV?
12:06 Doug DeMuro? The old CRV.
12:08 Speaker 01 Wow.
12:08 Doug DeMuro? They claim it also has rock sliders and trail watch cameras.
12:12 Speaker 01 That's legit.
12:13 Doug DeMuro? This is maybe not as bad as I was thinking it would be. I just, who in this segment is not getting a grand share here of 4Runner? The problem is Honda has watched those cars be successful. Ford made the same mistake with the Edge. They've watched those cars be successful and they don't quite understand what has made them successful, which is like real capability to back up. Like everybody who tries to do a G-Wagon and doesn't really do it, it fails. Because like the whole, people want to buy capability they don't need. And Honda's like, well, we're going to give you all the capability you do need and none of the extra. And it's like, you don't get it. People, what sells the car is the capability they're not going to use.
12:46 Speaker 01 I think you're wrong because you are well aware, because you live in the same area, there's so many cross track wildernesses. About like a third of cross tracks sold are wildernesses. That might. May not be true, but I think it is.
12:57 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
12:58 Speaker 01 Right. And like, are they, are they doing anything? No, but they want it to look off roady. You're buying a passport because you want it to look off.
13:03 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
13:03 Speaker 01 Now, while you're not buying a CRV, we'll never know.
13:05 Doug DeMuro? There's no off-roader in that segment, really.
13:08 Speaker 01 But the same is true for the Forester Wilderness, which does exist, and the Outback Wilderness.
13:12 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
13:12 Speaker 01 And like.
13:12 Doug DeMuro? Those aren't around, though.
13:13 Speaker 01 They are around.
13:14 Doug DeMuro? No, I've never seen a Forester Wilderness.
13:16 Speaker 01 Really?
13:16 Doug DeMuro? I've never seen one in my life.
13:18 Speaker 01 You just haven't been looking. But I think there is a market for people that want something that can, that they are confident can go down the dirt road they go down once a year. Even though a regular passport or a Camry could as well, but they want the appearance of it, and this will do enough of it.
13:34 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, I mean, that's definitely true, and it's a nice looking car. I agree with you on that. And I'm glad that they added a little bit more true capability because they have been marketing this as an off-roader for a while, and that has not been true, and it's nice to actually have some real capability. You and me can take it on the trails when they send me.
13:46 Speaker 01 I will. I would love to do that. I will say I don't like how the back looks, but that's a whole new issue.
13:50 Doug DeMuro? Well, I.
13:51 Speaker 02 Well, look, you don't have to see it when you're in it.
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15:09 Speaker 01 Okay, move on to the next news story, please.
15:11 Speaker 02 All right, real cars. So Porsche has added two new models to the Taycan range and they've added a body style. So they've given us the Taycan.
15:21 Speaker 01 A body style they already had.
15:22 Speaker 02 Yes, but they kind of, they brought, I don't.
15:25 Speaker 01 It is a refresh and it wasn't here for the first year.
15:28 Speaker 02 Right, exactly. It wasn't here for the first. So they've given us the Taycan 4 and the GTS, the 4 obviously being all-wheel-drive, which is important. That car, it's still pretty impressive. It does 0-60 in 4.4 seconds, which is, it ain't slow, but I guess none of the Taycans are. But the real one to talk about is the GTS, which now has 690 horsepower. And it got like a couple of different things. You could option rear-wheel-drive strength to make it handle better and blah, blah, blah. But I guess they thought they needed to broaden this range more. My belief was they weren't selling all that many Taycans these days.
15:58 Speaker 01 There are 11 models now.
15:59 Speaker 02 That's a lot. Like, two more kind of feels like a lot.
16:04 Doug DeMuro? Yeah. Um, the, it is a lot, especially considering that sales have not really been great. But they can sell them in different trims without much effort because it's just like different states of tune.
16:17 Speaker 02 Sure, but yeah, they're still expensive. It started, the 4 starts at 105 grand. And the Sport Turismo GTS, 151.7.
16:25 Speaker 01 The good news is that in a year and a half, they'll all be worth the equivalent of 60,000 dollars.
16:29 Doug DeMuro? Taycans on the site.
16:30 Speaker 02 Yeah, exactly.
16:31 Doug DeMuro? Like, it's just, there's not a lot of demand for these cars. They're cool, but like, there's not a lot of.
16:37 Speaker 02 57 for a 4S from 2020, 92 for a 23 GTS. That's like the one, two, yeah.
16:45 Speaker 01 We were discussing the other day that the Taycan Sport Turismo might be the best-looking EV for sale.
16:50 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, no, it does. I agree with that. And also like the most car enthusiast-y EV, like we were saying, but like, the values just become so low so quickly, which speaks to the level of demand that this car has. And so I appreciate that they're offering new models, but Porsche must realize, like, there's not huge interest in Taycan. It's interesting that Porsche continues to invest in Taycan line at the level that they are, considering that.
17:14 Speaker 02 I think there are indeed, I mean, this was in motion years ago already. So I think they just have to do it at this point. They're kind of stuck with it. Otherwise, it's just a complete loss altogether. So they were going to roll it out as it was. Still, you know, it is interesting, like we've talked about many times now, that they are now kind of walking back the EV thing pretty, pretty quickly here. So I am kind of curious to see.
17:34 Speaker 01 I mean, the faces appear to matter, but will there be a gas Macan? Or will it be EV-only? I've seen one. McConney V. Are they preparing for when that doesn't sell?
17:45 Speaker 02 I guess we'll see. I think they're probably as anxious about it as anybody.
17:52 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's an interesting situation. McConney V. I'm not really sure about.
17:56 Speaker 02 Yeah, same.
17:57 Speaker 01 Have you driven? You haven't driven one? No, but they're reportedly going to send you one soon. Okay, give us another one. Ooh, yes. All right. This is a Mercedes AMG GT 43. Yeah. The 43 has been revealed. Yeah. As as pricing. Base model. Base model. First of all, Doug, can you guess how much horsepower this has? It is, of course, a two-door rear-wheel-drive, unlike the rest, which are all-wheel-drive sports car.
18:20 Speaker 02 It's got probably like 500 horsepower.
18:22 Speaker 01 It's got 416 horsepower from a 2-liter inline 4.
18:25 Speaker 02 416?
18:26 Speaker 01 Yeah, 1.6.
18:27 Speaker 02 Yeah, because it's the 2-liter 4. Okay.
18:29 Speaker 01 Without the hybrid components of this, like.
18:30 Speaker 02 So what are they charging for it?
18:33 Speaker 01 107 is the MSRP.
18:35 Speaker 02 107, basically. I mean.
18:36 Speaker 01 So you're paying $107,000 for a 416-horsepower coupe? It's another car that appreciates fast. It's interesting. These automakers release all these cars. It's funny, we've talked about Lucid Air, Taycan, and now AMG GT 43, AMG GT, all of which have been tremendously fast appreciators in the used market. They're all released by these automakers, and then immediately they have these massive incentives on these cars to try to get people to buy them. The coupe segment is a tough one. The luxury coupe segment is a tough one. Mercedes really was trying to compete with 911. They made the new SL sportier. It hasn't worked. They made the AMG GT just essentially a coupe version of the SL to kind of combine them into one car. I think that's just confusing. Frankly, I think that this car is confusing in general. It's just an odd market segment.
19:17 Speaker 01 I get what they're trying to do because like, how much horsepower does a base 911 have? 400 something presumably?
19:23 Speaker 02 No, I think it was, I think it's 3.
19:26 Speaker 01 Okay, great. So they're beating the base 911. An LC 500 is around 100 grand, too. It's like, I get how they're getting to that price. It's similar horsepower for a similar price point with other luxury coupes. This is a car nobody cares about.
19:42 Speaker 02 People want 911s, want 911s.
19:43 Speaker 01 People that want a GT, an AMG GT, want more than 416 horsepower from a four cylinder.
19:49 Speaker 02 Yeah.
19:50 Speaker 01 They don't want a four cylinder. And then if they do, they want actual power.
19:53 Doug DeMuro? This is ultimately going to be like a least play for people who want like something cool.
19:56 Speaker 01 And it does look good.
19:58 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, no, it does look good. And they're going to be able to get them at pretty good incentivized rates pretty soon because, but.
20:05 Speaker 02 To be honest with you, I've been kind of confused about this whole thing since the SLS. The SLS came, like, the SLS was like very high performance. It competed with the 458. Like, it was a big, brawny, 6.2, like, 6.2 liter V8, really powerful car. Then the AMG GT came out with substantially less power, still amazing looks, and kind of felt like that, but it wasn't anywhere near on the performance level the SLS was. And then they made a gazillion different trims of it that no one knows or can keep straight.
20:31 Doug DeMuro? I think Mercedes, I think the goal was, they first came out the SLR, and I think the goal initially always was for these cars to be halo cars. But they realized the same thing Lexus realized at the LFA, which is that a halo car that costs a half million dollars doesn't have enough of a halo effect. So they've subsequently lowered the price point, but now it's not even really a halo car and trying to compete with the 911. Mercedes doesn't know what to do. The answer is Mercedes doesn't know what to do with the SL. And they're confused because no one is buying the SL, and no one's bought the SL in 10 years. And so they're confused about where to take the SL. And so this time they've merged with AMG GT. I guarantee this will not be the strategy for the next generation, if the cars even stick around.
21:07 Speaker 01 Plus, if you're doing that and you want to be vaguely a halo car, just do the 63. Don't do a 400 horsepower four cylinder one.
21:15 Speaker 02 Right, right.
21:17 Speaker 01 Also, by the way, used AMG GTs with an actual V8 are 60.
21:22 Speaker 02 Yeah.
21:22 Speaker 01 Which is a deal.
21:23 Speaker 02 Yeah.
21:24 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, but I mean, a new car is a new car, and it's a different kind of world.
21:27 Speaker 02 Different world.
21:27 Doug DeMuro? Nonetheless, it is pricey for what it is, and that engine has not been getting a lot of great feedback.
21:32 Speaker 01 This is without the hybrid stuff too.
21:34 Speaker 02 $25,000 a cylinder.
21:36 Doug DeMuro? All right, give us the next one. We got another great news story here. Our friend Marquez Brownlee.
21:42 Speaker 01 And he is a friend of the channel.
21:43 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, so Marquez does this video with a Lamborghini where he's going too fast. And people lose it in the comments. I can't believe you're going so fast.
21:53 Speaker 01 He blurred the speedo, but the Ruelto has the passenger side.
21:58 Doug DeMuro? I just want to say this.
22:00 Speaker 01 Oh, all right, all right.
22:02 Doug DeMuro? Um, the number one criticism I get, the number one video criticism I get is that I do not drive the cars hard enough. Number one. And if you watch my videos, in the video, there's like a three minute segment where I drive the car at kind of normal speeds.
22:20 Doug DeMuro? And people are always like, he just, whenever you get into a Doug Demuro comment thing on Reddit or wherever, the number one thing he never, he doesn't even know how to drive. He only drives slow. He's, he doesn't really test the cars. He doesn't really get in the, he doesn't know anything. And, um, Farah has also gotten in trouble for the same thing that Marquez has gotten in trouble with now. And I just find it to be grating. It is difficult as a content creator. And when I, I was thinking about this today, like when I started off my YouTube world, I was kind of famous for like replying to everybody and being very engaged with the audience. And it's hard to stay at that level because you are just getting ridiculous criticism constantly all the time.
23:02 Doug DeMuro? Now, Marquez going too fast in a, you know, 90 or whatever in a 40, I, it, yeah, it's wrong. But the, if he didn't, he would get the criticism I get. And I think he would actually get more of it because, because he's a tech YouTuber. He doesn't have as much credibility in the car space to begin with. And so he needs to prove to these people that he can drive the cars fast and can actually feel the handling and give good, honest, like review opinions based on his driving experience. And so what I tell people now is I drive the cars correctly, not on camera, and then on camera, I just put my take. But it doesn't stop people from saying, literally, the number one, I mean, it is a constant complaint that I hear, that I don't drive the cars fast enough. And I think the answer is, you can't placate.
23:44 Doug DeMuro? People.
23:45 Speaker 01 No, the, the, the channels that have made it a point to do a lot of drag races on closed tracks, get around that in a really smart way.
23:50 Doug DeMuro? You can do it if you rent out tracks.
23:52 Speaker 01 But that's like so costly.
23:53 Doug DeMuro? For almost everybody. And so then you have to either choose to do what I do and get that complaint or choose to do what he didn't get that complaint. And those are basically the only two ways around it.
24:01 Speaker 01 Yeah, admittedly, he was going fast and well, I believe it was not actually an active school zone, but in a school zone.
24:06 Doug DeMuro? I learned my lesson. I learned my lesson from Farah. I wouldn't do what he did.
24:09 Speaker 01 Yeah.
24:10 Doug DeMuro? But I feel for him because I know that the alternative is also getting complaints. And I texted him and I said, you know, what I learned of my channel is what I do, I make my goal to get the fewest number of complaints. It is, my goal is not to get zero complaints and it's not to make the most people happy. It is to get the fewest amount of complaints. And so some of the choices I make are for that reason. And, you know, he drives a Revuelto slowly. People are going to be like, well, you didn't drive it hard, but that's still a lesser thing than going over the speed limit. You're still going to get complaints. It's YouTube. It's the way the audience is. And it's difficult though, as a creator to just kind of, there's no way, way to win some of this stuff.
24:50 Speaker 01 There really is not.
24:51 Doug DeMuro? That's my Marquez rant. I don't think, I wouldn't have done it and I don't do it on camera, ever.
24:56 Speaker 01 Don't do it on camera. Wink.
24:59 Doug DeMuro? But, but like, I think you have to wink, but the audience doesn't buy it. One of the things that has blown me away doing YouTube videos is realizing that whatever the audience thinks they see, they just, that's the truth to them. Like I will, I'll post a video that I shot in Kansas a year ago and people will be like, oh my God, you're in Kansas. It's like, it's, it doesn't work.
25:19 Speaker 01 There's snow on the ground right now or there, there's leaves that were, for, at least in the summer.
25:24 Speaker 02 I get, I, I get that though. But I mean, people are watching what they're watching. They're not thinking of how, they don't want to see the seams of how it's put together.
25:31 Doug DeMuro? But my point is, so when I drive the car slowly, they just assumed the only time I ever had to drive that car was the two and a half minutes we entered. It's like, what?
25:40 Speaker 01 I will say, you always made the smart decision to not do a forward facing camera.
25:43 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
25:43 Speaker 01 To, to, to not show the speed.
25:45 Doug DeMuro? People complain about it and now you understand why. And, and it's not just Marquez, it's Farah, it's everybody else who's done this.
25:51 Doug DeMuro? You make a choice. Who do you want to upset? And then you go and make your YouTube videos.
25:58 Speaker 01 He had a good apology on social media.
26:01 Doug DeMuro? He apologized and it was lovely and what this is gonna do is mean that he's not gonna drive the cars fast on camera anymore and I promise you within six months YouTube will have forgotten that this happened and instead they'll be complaining that he doesn't drive the cars.
26:11 Speaker 02 Six months, I give it two and a half weeks, maybe.
26:13 Doug DeMuro? Two days, tops. Okay, next we're gonna talk about cars, which is what we've been doing. The big talk cars thing is that my Carrera GT has gone in for the big recall. This was a couple of days ago.
26:25 Speaker 01 Remind me what this entails.
26:26 Doug DeMuro? There's a suspension recall where some suspension component, they showed me the component, it's tremendously small. Uh, well, in theory will corrode and then the car will crash and will die.
26:36 Speaker 02 Right, because so many of these cars see corrosive elements, you know, they, they have the climate controlled garages they sit in.
26:41 Doug DeMuro? The whole thing is obviously laughable, especially because they didn't get a single car that actually crashed. Um, but they showed me what they're replacing and so there's a little, there's a little suspension part inside of like a rubber seal bearing thing and because they can't replace just that, they're replacing all this suspension work around it and it's crazy. I mean, it, it's a lot of stuff. It's a lot of like, very expensive titanium parts.
27:09 Speaker 02 Component within a bushing within a, like, control arm.
27:11 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, yeah, with, exactly. So they're replacing this, an enormous amount, I mean, not an enormous amount, but a car like that, it's, it gets expensive fast. We're talking about titanium parts for free.
27:20 Speaker 02 Suspension, it's like, depending on where it is, the disassembly in order to replace it is, can be expensive and then you have to sometimes do an alignment and all the other stuff.
27:28 Doug DeMuro? Which they are gonna do, because they're also gonna be free tires. And a couple of interesting things came out of this. First off, I got a loaner car and the dealer told me that I am the first Carrera GT owner in the history of the dealership to request a loaner car. So I got a base Cayenne, uh, and it's great, I'll tell you. Heck of a car.
27:46 Speaker 01 We still don't know if it's a post facelift or pre facelift.
27:50 Doug DeMuro? I think it's new. I don't know much.
27:54 Doug DeMuro? We got a base Cayenne. The other thing that happened is I decided I would also do the four-year service because it's been five years since I did the four-year service. Since I didn't own the car then.
28:03 Speaker 01 Confusing.
28:04 Doug DeMuro? So I called a dealer and I said, look, you know, while the car's there, I might as well do this five-year service. Porsche is giving a credit to the CRG T100, 3,500 bucks towards your service. And so I figure, I said, yeah, I might as well apply that towards this four-year service. He said, yeah, it's no problem and it'll be about 15,000. And I'm like, what? What? But he said it like it was like, it was like an oil change.
28:27 Speaker 01 I mean, it is 1% of the value of the car. If I get an oil change in a Fiat, it's 1% of the value of the car. So think about it.
28:34 Doug DeMuro? That's the critical oil change. It's the old 1%. Anyway, so I agreed to that, but we took some stuff off of the four-year service. One of the things that they look for is coil pack and apparently mine was replaced five years ago and they don't think it'll need another one. And the 3,500 credit goes toward it. And so I think it'll be something in the eight.
28:52 Speaker 02 Yeah, that's rough.
28:55 Doug DeMuro? All it is, is like a couple of fluids, drive belts, and like brake fluid. There's not much to it. Oil change.
29:03 Speaker 02 That's 15 Gs, huh?
29:06 Doug DeMuro? You believe that?
29:07 Speaker 02 Yes, we have an expression in the Indy community for services called the, you took it to the Steelership. That's.
29:12 Doug DeMuro? But what do you?
29:14 Speaker 02 It's a CRG T. You can't.
29:16 Doug DeMuro? Short of sending it to Jimmy.
29:18 Speaker 02 Yeah, that's, those are your two options.
29:19 Speaker 01 Where you're spending five grand for shipping.
29:21 Doug DeMuro? And Jimmy, sometimes I wonder though, because Jimmy's, Jimmy's very reasonable price. Like would the shipping be worse? But it's also a troop movement. It's dangerous for a car like that. Like getting it on a truck and all that. So.
29:32 Speaker 02 Especially with the clutch. Like it's a, it's a whole thing.
29:35 Doug DeMuro? So they're doing the old four-year service. But anyway, the thing that, the thing that all this got started for in my mind was the Mission X.
29:43 Speaker 01 Oh.
29:44 Doug DeMuro? The new electric hypercar, which apparently they're not going to make or are going to make.
29:47 Speaker 01 Can you pull up a picture of the Mission X?
29:48 Doug DeMuro? Dude, it's gonna be honest.
29:49 Speaker 01 I looked at this the other day.
29:50 Speaker 02 Don't remember what it looks like.
29:51 Doug DeMuro? Ooh, the Acura ADX.
29:52 Speaker 01 One inch shorter than the RDX.
29:53 Doug DeMuro? Ooh.
29:54 Speaker 01 You think that's part of their marketing material?
29:55 Doug DeMuro? I hope so.
29:56 Speaker 02 I almost typed.
29:57 Speaker 01 It also looks identically identical to an HRV despite not being based on an HRV at all.
30:01 Doug DeMuro? Okay, click on this picture because I think it's the most heinous picture.
30:03 Speaker 01 Oof.
30:04 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, so this car is a go, obviously. So the Mission X was announced years ago and it was a it's electric hypercar that they were gonna make and no one wants it.
30:13 Speaker 01 But they was released like revealed like 10 years, it was a while ago.
30:15 Doug DeMuro? So then, obviously, they're not gonna, apparently, they're not gonna do it, or maybe they are, maybe they're not, but they're gonna do another hypercar.
30:23 Speaker 01 We're very knowledgeable about the topic.
30:24 Doug DeMuro? Well, no, there's been nothing official, but when Carrera GT concept was shown, the real Carrera GT came out a couple years later and looked identical. So this thing got shown and people were like, well, I guess this is coming. But because apparently there's not a lot of interest in these electric hypercars, maybe they're not. The point is, I was thinking about what would it take to get me into a Mission X? What would it have to be for me to actually buy it?
30:44 Speaker 02 Well, considering you didn't like the 918, I don't think you're gonna get it.
30:47 Doug DeMuro? But that's my point. I did like the 911ST. So what would they have to do?
30:53 Speaker 02 Well, so start with a manual.
30:54 Doug DeMuro? Manual transmission, unquestionable.
30:56 Speaker 01 Would you do an electric car if they did a manual?
30:58 Doug DeMuro? Absolutely not at that price point. Absolutely not at that price point. I would love to have an electric daily and I really think I should, but at that price point, absolutely no chance.
31:04 Speaker 02 If the 918 had a manual, would that have solved it? Would that be the car you'd want, basically?
31:09 Doug DeMuro? Uh, maybe, if it was really good.
31:11 Speaker 02 N A V eight with
31:12 Doug DeMuro? From the race car.
31:13 Speaker 02 With hybrid system from the race car with a manual transmission.
31:17 Doug DeMuro? No, 918 is too expensive for me also. That's the other thing. So pricing.
31:21 Speaker 02 I hate to tell you, I suspect this will be too expensive as well.
31:24 Speaker 01 Ken, can you go to a nicer picture so we don't have to look at this?
31:26 Doug DeMuro? Dude, I'm telling you, that's what it looks like.
31:27 Speaker 02 The ugly Salamander picture.
31:29 Doug DeMuro? Let me, let me tell you what I think also. You want, you want to talk appearance?
31:33 Speaker 01 Yeah.
31:33 Doug DeMuro? Look up the 904 Living Legend concept. This is gonna change your mind. Porsche 904 Living Legend concept.
31:41 Speaker 02 Okay.
31:41 Doug DeMuro? This is what it would have to look like.
31:44 Speaker 02 Living?
31:45 Doug DeMuro? It'll probably just be.
31:46 Speaker 02 Legend, okay.
31:49 Doug DeMuro? That looks cool.
31:50 Speaker 01 It is an XL.
31:52 Speaker 02 It does look like an 994.
31:53 Doug DeMuro? Yeah. Okay, it's based on the Volkswagen XL1, which was a very tiny.
31:58 Speaker 02 On 997 turbo wheels.
32:00 Doug DeMuro? It's from that era.
32:01 Speaker 02 Yeah. Oh, it is.
32:03 Doug DeMuro? But if they made it look like this with a manual and like a 600K price tag, count me in for.
32:08 Speaker 01 You're aware that it's the length of a young child.
32:11 Doug DeMuro? You're missing the point. You're missing the point. I agree. It's based on XL1, so it's actually a small electric car. But I'm telling you, it looks cool.
32:18 Speaker 01 It does look cool.
32:18 Doug DeMuro? If they made it look like this, I would be interested.
32:21 Speaker 01 Interesting.
32:21 Doug DeMuro? Hmm.
32:22 Speaker 01 But that's about it.
32:22 Doug DeMuro? What, what, what? It's cool, right?
32:24 Speaker 02 It's really cool.
32:25 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
32:26 Speaker 02 It's very like Alpine A1.
32:27 Speaker 01 Yeah, it is very.
32:28 Doug DeMuro? Yes, it is. It is. That's a good point. But it's like a longer tail, like, like an old Porsche race car, kind of.
32:34 Speaker 02 Yeah, it's, it's really cool.
32:35 Doug DeMuro? It's cool. Why did they build this? Except not as a Volkswagen XL1.
32:40 Speaker 01 Right, right.
32:40 Doug DeMuro? Right, as, yeah, based it on something good. Design, make it bigger, because an XL1 is a tiny little thing. Make the design a little bigger.
32:46 Speaker 01 But scale up the proportions and.
32:47 Doug DeMuro? Scale up the proportions, toss in an AV10 from a race car like my Carr G T has.
32:51 Speaker 01 Casual.
32:53 Doug DeMuro? And a manual transmission.
32:54 Speaker 01 How much did you pay?
32:55 Doug DeMuro? I think I paid six or seven, depends on production numbers. But I paid six or seven.
32:59 Speaker 01 How much was the Carr G T new?
33:01 Doug DeMuro? 440, because a lot of the, a lot of the reason for this recall, in my opinion, is because they're trying to get people to be handraisers for the next hypercar.
33:07 Speaker 01 It's not just to avoid more lawsuits.
33:09 Doug DeMuro? There's that too.
33:10 Speaker 01 Okay.
33:11 Doug DeMuro? Um, and so I'm thinking, what would it take? And the answer is that. 904 living legend.
33:15 Speaker 01 So you'd pay six, six, 700.
33:18 Doug DeMuro? Depends on product.
33:19 Speaker 01 If they made a thousand.
33:20 Doug DeMuro? A thousand, I don't think they'd be able to justify doing it at 600 units.
33:23 Speaker 01 No.
33:24 Doug DeMuro? Uh, or at six, at 600, thousand dollars. Um, but I would, they would have to make 2000, but I'm cool with that.
33:29 Speaker 01 Okay.
33:30 Doug DeMuro? I'm here.
33:30 Speaker 01 All right, Porsche, if you're listed.
33:32 Doug DeMuro? I'll do it.
33:33 Speaker 02 Build it.
33:34 Doug DeMuro? If it has any sort of automatic transmission or hybrid, I'm out.
33:39 Doug DeMuro? Kenan, tell us your top cars moment of the week.
33:42 Speaker 02 Yes, so I just recently, as of yesterday, the 13th of November, I celebrated nine years I've owned my E39 M5. Thank you. In that time, I put, uh, just over, I put about 86,000 miles on it.
33:55 Doug DeMuro? Wow.
33:56 Speaker 02 Um, and it's still, I, I also. I made a video of, I watch it every year. I made a video for you 39 source documenting the whole journey of flying down to get it and like driving it back to my friends, Ryan and Steven. And I'm still just as excited now as I was when I bought the car. It looks even, it looks much better now than it did then. A lot has changed with that car. It's been.
34:15 Speaker 01 Lot of modifications.
34:16 Speaker 02 Yes, but on the topic of, but also recently, so I was on a date with this girl I've been seeing. We went downtown to this art installation. They had like one of these Zoltan things where it gives you like a fortune. And it gave me mine and it said, you have not been wise with your money lately. It's important to reward yourself for your hard work, but a fool in his money will soon part. Remember this the next time you receive a sum of money. And I suspect it was referring to my.
34:39 Doug DeMuro? That is wise with your money. You, you needed those, you needed those, uh, fender liners.
34:45 Speaker 02 Oh, yes.
34:46 Doug DeMuro? For $12,000.
34:47 Speaker 02 I mean, obviously it's not referring to that.
34:50 Speaker 01 That was a reasonable.
34:52 Speaker 02 I, I realized like, yeah, it is an investment in how much I love the car and I am still just so thrilled to get in it every time, man. And a lot of people have been suggesting I get some daily, but to be honest with you, I just love driving the car. When I get in that car to do anything with it is to go play tennis with you guys or to come here to work or to just drive on the highway for the sake of driving. Just happy to be in the M5. And so nine years later, I'm just even more excited to drive the car now, I think than what I was when I bought it.
35:16 Speaker 01 Yeah. Have you owned any car for nine years?
35:19 Doug DeMuro? Not, not currently, just ever. Yeah, I had that Range Rover, that CarMax Range Rover for like seven or something. Well, the Ford GT I've had for like six and a half. I mean, I'm getting there on some of these. And I will. You've never had a car for nine years?
35:32 Speaker 02 No.
35:34 Doug DeMuro? It's pretty impressive for a car enthusiast. All my other car enthusiast friends are like degenerates who every two weeks want to buy another car.
35:41 Speaker 02 Right, right. Well, and you, you once said in a Sunday video that a lot of car enthusiasts wax lyrical about keeping a car forever. I'm not even necessarily saying I'm into it with the M5, but it's gonna happen.
35:53 Doug DeMuro? Well, yeah, it's interesting. I, I do agree. That's an interesting point. So many people are like, oh, I'm gonna keep my car forever. And they never do. But you've never said that, but like are just sort of doing it because that's what you like.
36:05 Speaker 02 Yes.
36:06 Doug DeMuro? That's the way to do it. Not be one of those Louies who's like, I want Creeper forever. And then they sell it six weeks later.
36:12 Speaker 02 Both the 39 and five guys just driving around.
36:15 Doug DeMuro? And Malcolm Gladwell. True. Who else?
36:17 Speaker 02 Dave Grohl.
36:17 Speaker 01 You know Malcolm Gladwell's daily driver?
36:19 Doug DeMuro? Uh, Akira.
36:20 Speaker 01 No.
36:21 Doug DeMuro? Akira ADX.
36:24 Speaker 01 No.
36:25 Doug DeMuro? Akira RDX.
36:26 Speaker 01 Type S.
36:27 Doug DeMuro? It's not an Akira.
36:28 Speaker 01 It's not a what?
36:29 Doug DeMuro? It's not an Akira.
36:30 Speaker 01 I don't know.
36:30 Doug DeMuro? I don't know what brand you're referring to.
36:32 Speaker 01 What is it?
36:33 Doug DeMuro? The Kia Carnival.
36:34 Speaker 01 Okay.
36:35 Doug DeMuro? Um.
36:36 Speaker 02 But I love the car and it's not going anywhere.
36:38 Doug DeMuro? E395. And everybody in the comments gets mad that Kenan brings up Z395. Two things about that. Number one, that goes back to what I said earlier about the annoyance. But number two, this is Kenan. This is who Kenan is.
36:49 Speaker 02 Well, I'm passionate about other cars. The thing is they cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. And it's like, to be honest, and you can't use them the way I want to use them. Like your point about the Ford GT is the reason you love that is because you can take it and drive it places that you can't do, that you wouldn't dream of doing with the Countach. And the Carrera GT is worth over a million dollars. And so like, you can't.
37:07 Doug DeMuro? Yep.
37:08 Speaker 02 But the E395, despite how much money I have into it, ultimately it's not that expensive of a car. It's extremely usable, very practical. Would I love, do I want other cars? Of course, I'll have other cars with it. But it's the rock upon which I build. I just love it.
37:19 Speaker 01 Right? That's fair. We're happy for you.
37:21 Speaker 02 Thanks. Thank you very much.
37:23 Doug DeMuro? Okay, our next topic is the market report, market report, market report, not brought to you by Cars and Bids. It's brought to you by the Cars and Bids app, which is different from Cars and Bids. It's Cars and Bids, but an app.
37:34 Speaker 01 For cars and beds, you can download the app on the iOS App Store today.
37:38 Doug DeMuro? The iOS App Store. That's where you get it. You go to Cars and Bids on the iOS App Store. It's green. And then you can get notifications and push notifications and regular notifications and no notifications at all about your favorite vehicles when they list, sell or are bought on Cars and Bids.
37:53 Speaker 01 You can bid, you can comment, you can participate in our community, you can do all those fun things you love about Cars and Bids.
37:57 Doug DeMuro? Can you talk to Kenan directly?
38:00 Speaker 01 Sadly, not for free.
38:01 Doug DeMuro? But not for free. And we should put a pay to talk to Kenan.
38:05 Speaker 01 We should.
38:06 Doug DeMuro? Uh, okay. Market report. Kenan and I both want to talk about Z3M coupes.
38:10 Speaker 02 Yes. So recently we sold this, this particular one, which I thought was fascinating because it's kind of the one to have. So it's the, it's the clown shoe.
38:21 Doug DeMuro? Yep.
38:21 Speaker 02 It's an S54.
38:22 Doug DeMuro? Yep.
38:22 Speaker 02 It had some modifications that admittedly it was a salvage title, but in like 2002. So like, that's not really relevant anymore.
38:28 Speaker 01 That was a salvage title?
38:29 Speaker 02 Yeah, there was a branded title in 02, but it sold for 28.5. Now I did have miles on it, 63,000, but it's not crazy for one of these. But I mean, it just shows that the, these are coming down.
38:41 Speaker 01 Sorry, you're calling 28.5 for a salvage titled.
38:44 Speaker 02 Yeah, because these, yeah, because S54 ones, the really nice ones were a hundred. Like they were very expensive for a while and now they have like really settled and S52 ones are still a really good buy.
38:56 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, that was what I was gonna talk about. Nick, Nick, Nick mentioned to us the other day, just privately that he thinks these Z3 M coupes are good deals and they really are. If you don't focus on the S54 thing, the fact that you can get these cars, I mean, you drive this around, no one knows whether you have an S52 or an S54, first off, and second, they're just so cool.
39:12 Speaker 02 Some of us know.
39:12 Doug DeMuro? Well, there are very little ways that Kenan knows how to tell one.
39:15 Speaker 01 You of course know how to tell one.
39:16 Doug DeMuro? I don't, but they are such cool cars. They are such cool cars and they're so distinctive and I don't know if I would necessarily go as far as calling them iconic, but they are distinctive and cool in a very special way.
39:28 Speaker 02 Well, it was a rare moment when BMW decided, let's do something quirky.
39:33 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, let's do something weird.
39:33 Speaker 02 And also it was, it was an engineer pet project. They, the BMW didn't want to make a coupe version of it. Engineers did it in their spare time famously and were able to make a case for it using parts from other cars.
39:44 Speaker 01 The E30 tour.
39:45 Speaker 02 And, and they did it and look at how, look how cool that thing looks.
39:50 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, I, I think it's, I think it's a really, really special car and the fact that they're, the fact that the S52 ones are only 20 grand.
39:56 Speaker 01 I know.
39:56 Doug DeMuro? Is like a total deal. S52 is not a bad engine.
39:59 Speaker 02 No, S52, S52 is a great engine. It's not as exotic as the S54 or the European version.
40:03 Doug DeMuro? But it's more reliable and good torque. And these cars are all old. I mean, I can't imagine an S54 is even that fast by modern standards.
40:10 Speaker 02 Hmm. The car this light, it's pretty quick. It's pretty fast.
40:13 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, I guess so, but even an S52 is probably okay. I mean, they're, it's a fun car to drive around. It's cool. It's quirky and it's not expensive and they're certainly not losing value.
40:21 Speaker 02 Like two years ago, I went up to the Pacific Northwest where I did a trio of videos. I did, I reviewed an S52 clown shoe, an E46 M3 and a Honda NS, or Acura, Acura, excuse me, NSX. Sorry, I didn't want to confuse you there.
40:32 Doug DeMuro? I'm not taking this.
40:32 Speaker 02 Of the three, like when I analyzed price and driving experience, whatever, the, the shoe was the one I liked the most. Like it just was a nice balance of everything.
40:40 Doug DeMuro? It's cool.
40:41 Speaker 02 And it's, it's damn.
40:42 Doug DeMuro? It drives well and it is cool. People knock the Z3 because it's the Z3 and it's like the lesser. I think that's all a bunch of BS. And then the fact that it's a coupe and the M coupe, it's all cool. And I think that these cars are total bargain. That their number
40:54 Speaker 01 They really are.
40:55 Doug DeMuro? With an S52. And it, yes, S54 has got absolutely crazy and maybe are seeing a little bit of
40:59 Speaker 02 But I mean, they're coming, they're, they're coming down certainly. Really minty, minty, minty.
41:03 Doug DeMuro? Look at this. Driving around this would be so cool.
41:05 Speaker 02 Look at that rear dish on that rear wheel. Man, that is just delicious.
41:09 Speaker 01 Hey, Kenan, before we move on, do you want to tell Doug how to tell apart? Cause there's
41:13 Speaker 02 This is a really good, I mean, you can tell from right here. So for those of you who don't know, all I will, this is classroom clown shoe time with Kenan. So one way to tell is the wheel finish. That's the only other M car that got chrome shadow wheel finish like the E39 and five. Only two ones they ever did it with. So that's one way to
41:29 Doug DeMuro? Well, which one has it? Which one doesn't?
41:31 Speaker 02 So the, the S52 does not just finish in hyper silver. That's one. The other thing is the M badge changed significantly. So this one is like the E46 M3. Where at, which is a little bit more rounded looking. When you look at an S52 car, it's like the E36 M3. Which is a little, of course, I pick on, I click on a car that doesn't have it. Uh, let's see. This one has it. You can see it's much more flat.
41:54 Doug DeMuro? Wait, go back to the other one?
41:56 Speaker 02 I shut up or you don't, we're gonna
41:58 Speaker 01 Significant is the word I would use for sure.
42:02 Speaker 02 Look, Filippo, this is a brand, this is a brand that values subtlety.
42:06 Doug DeMuro? Go, go to it.
42:07 Speaker 02 Alright, so see how that one is kind of more rounded?
42:09 Doug DeMuro? The other one?
42:10 Speaker 02 Much more flat. So completely different there.
42:12 Doug DeMuro? Now, those are both pretty changeable things.
42:14 Speaker 02 They are changeable things.
42:15 Doug DeMuro? You could confuse everybody.
42:17 Speaker 02 Inside as well, there are, there are changes too. So you can see here. So Yeah. So for, so the gauge cluster on the S52 cars is black. On the S54 cars, it's gray.
42:28 Doug DeMuro? Okay, changeable also, changeable also.
42:30 Speaker 02 A little more difficult because it also applies down here.
42:32 Doug DeMuro? He laughs, but I'm gonna pull this out at Carson Coffee next time.
42:34 Speaker 01 Of course you are.
42:35 Speaker 02 This is the guy who knows the difference between the Accura trims currently, like on every sub model. So I mean, yeah, exactly.
42:41 Doug DeMuro? What you want, right? You want to dance?
42:43 Speaker 02 Give me a guff here.
42:43 Doug DeMuro? Wait, so is that all?
42:45 Speaker 02 Well, you started and it, it sounds different, but. The badges also apply to the hood. The badges apply to the sides too. That's another thing that changed. I mean, they're really subtle ways to tell, but yeah, that's largely how you tell the difference. Yeah, that's it, I think.
43:02 Speaker 01 Thank you for that lesson.
43:04 Doug DeMuro? Okay, we are, actually, I want to do the last market report thing that I wanted to talk about, which is the Evo. Pull up the Evo. Let's just talk about it. Let's just get it out in the open.
43:11 Speaker 01 Get it on the open.
43:12 Doug DeMuro? Let's just get it out in the open. This is the coolest thing that's ever been sold on Cars and Bins.
43:16 Speaker 01 Well, we sold that first gen HRV once.
43:18 Doug DeMuro? Dude, I, when I was a kid, I was 50, the car came out when I turned 15, 16. And at the time, it was the coolest thing in the world. We were all playing Gran Turismo and we had all wanted Nissan to bring us the GT-R and Subaru to bring us the WRX and Mitsubishi bring us the Evo. Nissan never did bring us the GT-R. They brought us the new GT-R, but we never got the Skyline that we played in Gran Turismo.
43:39 Speaker 01 Yep.
43:39 Doug DeMuro? And Subaru redesigned the Impreza and brought us the WRX, but Mitsubishi just was like, alright. And after the Evo 6, they gave us the Evo 7, which was, or they gave us the Evo 8, which was quite similar. It was just sort of like the car we all played. It even had a rear wiper like Japanese market sedans do and US market sedans never do. And immediately when the cars started to get sold here, people started to modify them and crash them.
44:02 Speaker 01 Yep.
44:03 Doug DeMuro? And you just don't see nice ones. And this one is a nice one and I want it.
44:07 Speaker 02 Yep, it is nice. I don't, I don't think it has very limited, yeah. Powder coated brake calipers and an Alpine head unit.
44:14 Doug DeMuro? That's it.
44:15 Speaker 02 That's it.
44:15 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
44:16 Speaker 01 Yep.
44:17 Doug DeMuro? That's it. There's no car, well, that's the situation. No Evo anymore. First gen.
44:21 Speaker 02 How many do you think exist like this? I mean,
44:24 Doug DeMuro? Especially in a cool color.
44:25 Speaker 02 Yeah, especially in a,
44:26 Doug DeMuro? This is one of those cars where you go, hey, is it modded? No. It's only got an exhaust, a tune, it's lowered and it's the wheels and a built motor, but it's not really, compared to my buddies.
44:36 Speaker 02 Just bolt-ons.
44:37 Doug DeMuro? Just bolt-ons. I think this car is so cool and I just remember my childhood and how desperately I wanted one of these. We all played these video games. These were the coolest cars you could find.
44:48 Speaker 01 Agreed.
44:48 Doug DeMuro? Video games. And here it is in real life, 20 years later.
44:52 Speaker 01 Blue by you.
44:53 Speaker 02 Blue by you. That's right. It is cool. It's nice to see one of these preserved. It just doesn't happen. Not even window tint.
45:01 Doug DeMuro? Yeah. No, I know. It's just totally, totally OE. Okay, next up, it's time to move on to the questions, questions, questions, questions. Now remember, you can submit your own questions. Go to carsandbids.com, click on the community tab and there will be a post that says, "Submit us questions." And then you can submit them and we will answer them. On the podcast.
45:19 Speaker 01 No matter how stupid.
45:21 Doug DeMuro? Okay. First question from Q Sal. A lot of these are for you today, Ken.
45:25 Speaker 02 Oh, okay.
45:25 Doug DeMuro? Hi Doug and the other two, I suppose.
45:27 Speaker 01 This isn't one of them.
45:29 Doug DeMuro? What are your thoughts about clear taillights? For example, the 2014 Porsche GT3 came with factory option clear taillights and I think it's a great look. I drive a straight at a Sienna which had clear taillights.
45:37 Speaker 01 Yeah, it sure did. But only the SE.
45:40 Doug DeMuro? If memory serves. Uh, the answer is they're fine. I don't know. Okay, next.
45:43 Speaker 02 Wait, wait.
45:45 Speaker 01 I actually kind of agree that on the Sienna that it works.
45:47 Doug DeMuro? It worked on some cars.
45:49 Speaker 01 The 997 GTS has clear taillights. If memory serves, I hate them. I think they look horrible.
45:54 Doug DeMuro? The 997 clear tails, the problem with those was part of them were still red.
45:58 Speaker 01 Yeah.
45:58 Doug DeMuro? Because there were regulatory components that had to be red.
46:00 Speaker 01 I actually do hate them on all.
46:01 Doug DeMuro? These are the 991 clear tails. They look fine. Go to the 997 clear tails. This will change, this will change your life.
46:06 Speaker 01 But it's not GT3.
46:07 Doug DeMuro? Take out GT3, just 997 clear tails. OE because the non OE ones aren't. These are not OE. Uh, where are the OE? That, that was the clear tail for the 997.
46:16 Speaker 02 It's wearing eyeliner.
46:18 Speaker 01 Looks so bad.
46:18 Doug DeMuro? It was the best they could do at the time.
46:20 Speaker 02 It wasn't good.
46:21 Speaker 01 No. I thought it was GTS only.
46:24 Doug DeMuro? Uh, it was, this, this actually, now that I look at it, I don't know if it's the exact OE clear tail, but it was very similar.
46:28 Speaker 02 That in spirit.
46:30 Doug DeMuro? And no one got them because it was just so not clear.
46:34 Speaker 01 Yep.
46:35 Doug DeMuro? Anyway, um, no, you could get them on other ones, but very few people did. I don't mind them on the right cars. I S300 of course wore it best.
46:41 Speaker 01 Of course.
46:42 Doug DeMuro? Oh, no.
46:42 Speaker 01 For a Tesla, of course.
46:44 Doug DeMuro? Second gen RX.
46:46 Speaker 01 Every RX, every, the first two generations of RX were clear.
46:48 Doug DeMuro? RX 330.
46:50 Speaker 01 Yeah. Larger cars seem to pull it off better than sports cars.
46:53 Doug DeMuro? I think it works on some cars. It doesn't work on other cars. And I think almost no car that has been modified to add it, does it look good.
46:59 Speaker 01 True, true.
47:00 Speaker 02 It was available, I don't know, this is very E39, it was available on the E39. Like, these are factory, believe it or not, these are factory, yeah, those are factory hella taillights.
47:09 Speaker 01 That is tragic.
47:10 Doug DeMuro? Bad.
47:11 Speaker 01 Well, that's Hain.
47:11 Doug DeMuro? Okay.
47:12 Speaker 02 Deep Hain.
47:13 Doug DeMuro? Next question. Aiden Kelly 666. Question for Doug and honored guest. I was once kicked out of an air-cooled Porsche group on Facebook during COVID for asking if they think prices would go down because there are a million of them and they are slow. Question, what is the fastest or funniest way to make a Porsche purist angry? Uh, that kind of thing. I mean, I think that the people, the production numbers is really my thing about those cars. They're really not rare. They're cool.
47:37 Speaker 02 Yeah, and they are slow.
47:38 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
47:39 Speaker 02 They're not quick. Um.
47:40 Doug DeMuro? I just don't get into the pedantry of the Porsche people. And so I.
47:43 Speaker 01 I'm sorry, what?
47:44 Doug DeMuro? The pedantry.
47:45 Speaker 01 Pedantry, okay. I thought you just massively misheard pedigree.
47:49 Speaker 02 I thought you were gonna say pageantry.
47:50 Doug DeMuro? The people are so pedantic about so many little things that I just can't bring myself to care about.
47:55 Speaker 02 I think that's, that's another good one. If someone's showing you a nine, oh yeah, well, calling a PDK car a tip, we like to do that. That's them. But also like if they're showing you their car and they're talking about how they have deviated stitching on their map, like around their map lights and you just go, do you ever drive the car?
48:11 Doug DeMuro? Here's a, here's a reality. Okay. I have a Porsche and I go to Cars and Coffee and I'll go to Car Vents, right? And people, cause it's me, I can't be mean ever to people, right? To their car.
48:20 Speaker 02 Right.
48:21 Doug DeMuro? So when people show me their cars, I always have to be like, oh yeah, that's the coolest thing we've seen. And most of the time they are cool.
48:28 Speaker 02 Yeah.
48:28 Doug DeMuro? But sometimes I'll get a Porsche dude who thinks that I'm a Porsche dude. And he'll be like, you gotta come over here and take a look at this, cause this is the only one they made with a sunroof and the only one they made with this stitching and the all. And.
48:40 Speaker 01 That's when you point the gun.
48:42 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, I'm like.
48:42 Speaker 01 You gotta talk to my friend Sam over here.
48:44 Speaker 02 Sam, yeah, send him to Sam.
48:45 Doug DeMuro? I just like, I get into cars for their overall driving experience and the way they are and the way they feel and the way, et cetera. And I don't get into cars like the little, the little tiny, like the stitching is different kind of stuff. I get that. I understand those people are there. It's cool. It's their thing. It's not my thing. And so like, I don't really gel with the Porsche community in that way.
49:08 Speaker 02 The rich Corvette people, actually. It's like, that's where you kind of get to. It's just like, yeah, no, I agree. Like ultimately, it's infuriating to me to see a car that is designed for driving, GT3, the ultimate driver's car. And it's only driven to Cars and Coffee and back. And but like, like, oh, I put PPF on it and then I got, I got the Porsche Design watch to match. And it's like.
49:27 Doug DeMuro? And 80% of the threads on the random list are what spec should I get? Nice spec. All they want to talk about is a beautiful spec. And it's like, don't any of you care about like the, the. Enjoyment of the vehicle?
49:39 Speaker 02 I once.
49:40 Doug DeMuro? I got the sport seats because they're better for reset. Well, why don't you get the seats that are better for your driving experience?
49:45 Speaker 02 I'm not making this up. I once read of, I wish I could find it. I once read a, um, a, a renlist like thread about which dealer had like the nicest coffee offerings, like for their, their service department, like within like northeastern Ohio. And it was like, oh, you're focusing on the wrong thing. It was hard to read. And the comments were as egregious as you would expect.
50:09 Doug DeMuro? It's, it's.
50:09 Speaker 02 I will use a French press.
50:11 Doug DeMuro? I, I, I go on the renlist and I, it's just hard. It's hard. The, the, the supercar section where we talk QGTC is a little easier. But I go on some of those threads and I'm just like, I cannot believe people are having these conversations. Um, and they've all been fooled into this paint to sample thing, even though the, the colors aren't actually to sample. They're just older colors that a million other people are getting also. And the whole thing is just, is just, I don't get into the, the pedantry.
50:34 Speaker 02 Much.
50:34 Doug DeMuro? It's a bit much.
50:36 Speaker 02 Drive the car.
50:36 Doug DeMuro? Which, drive the car, drive the car. You know, I, I do, I do take pride in the fact that the QGTC is like Porsche God, even though it's, they were all like silver with no options. That's like one of my favorite things. Um, okay. Next question from Paul Han Rahan. Doug, if you had to completely replace your current car collection with budget economy cars, which one would you pick? Felipe, you take this one.
50:56 Speaker 02 Okay. Your current question, but they all have to be same like genre of.
50:59 Doug DeMuro? I, I don't know. You can choose.
51:03 Speaker 02 Your family car would be a Highlander hybrid, which is not really a budget economy car, but if you buy a four year old one. There was a period of time, fun fact for, for long-term Doug followers, uh, where Doug loved the Hi-Hi.
51:13 Doug DeMuro? Pull up like the, which one did I like the 12?
51:16 Speaker 02 Yeah.
51:17 Doug DeMuro? Like 14?
51:19 Speaker 02 There was a refresh or redesign.
51:20 Doug DeMuro? I hated the 08 to 12 one.
51:23 Speaker 02 Yeah, everybody did. This is the one you love.
51:24 Doug DeMuro? But it's, I like the pre-refresh, which is actually this one.
51:27 Speaker 02 These are all pre-refresh.
51:28 Doug DeMuro? I think that that is one of the more beautiful, like normal cars that has ever existed.
51:32 Speaker 02 Yeah.
51:32 Doug DeMuro? It's, yeah.
51:34 Speaker 02 Uh, but budget economy.
51:35 Doug DeMuro? That's not a hybrid.
51:35 Speaker 02 What would Doug buy? Doug would just buy any of them. Doesn't matter. Which everyone's closest to his house.
51:39 Doug DeMuro? Yeah. I don't have an enormous amount. Like when I'm, it's funny because people often ask me stuff like this. Like when I'm renting a car. I don't, my friends will be like, I got the whatever, I got a whatever at the rental car agency today. I'm just like, I don't care. Like, I'm all set. You just throw, I drive everything. It doesn't matter all that much to me.
51:57 Speaker 01 A common way that Doug recommends that people buy cars is which dealer is closest to your house.
52:00 Doug DeMuro? Which dealer is closer, which salesperson do you like better, which color is better at the dealer. People come to me and they're like, should I get a RAV4, a CRV, or a CX5? And it's like,
52:08 Speaker 01 Well, first of all, the CX5 you should not buy, you should buy the CX5 hybrid to be competitive, but.
52:13 Doug DeMuro? I just like, to me, like, none of, you're not gonna really notice that, people are terrified of making a bad decision when it comes to buying a car. And it's like, you don't get it. It really, if you've gotten to that level, it doesn't matter. Now, if someone came to me and said, I'm thinking about getting a Chrysler 200, then we have a problem. Then it's like, I gotta steer you in a different direction.
52:32 Speaker 01 Think about it.
52:33 Doug DeMuro? So yeah, the answer is, I don't know the answer really, but they, it wouldn't be stuff that I would really care all that much about. Although I do think Fiat, uh, Sleep should get a Fiat multiple.
52:42 Speaker 01 That is a great car, but it's not really like a modern quirky enthusiast car.
52:47 Doug DeMuro? Yet it's, I think that's exactly.
52:48 Speaker 01 I think it might be the quirkiest car of all time. It looks like a plus.
52:52 Doug DeMuro? Rather, it's not a budget economy car.
52:53 Speaker 01 It is budget.
52:54 Doug DeMuro? Isn't it an economy car?
52:56 Speaker 01 You're right, you're right.
52:57 Doug DeMuro? The answer, Doug would buy a Fiat multiple. Okay. Next question from ind underscore can. Hey guys, you've just been given $500,000, which you must use to buy the following: a daily driver, a weekend cruiser, a track toy. What would your picks be?
53:09 Speaker 01 You think I'd need 500 grand?
53:10 Doug DeMuro? I'd need like 90.
53:11 Speaker 01 Close to 500 grand.
53:11 Speaker 02 Give him 23 grand, he's set.
53:13 Doug DeMuro? I'm good. One car to do it all.
53:17 Doug DeMuro? The answer, of course.
53:19 Speaker 01 I'd have to think about it, actually.
53:20 Speaker 02 I need time to think.
53:21 Doug DeMuro? Can I get a Ford GT in there?
53:22 Speaker 01 Yeah, you could.
53:24 Speaker 02 Yeah, I mean, yeah.
53:25 Doug DeMuro? Ford GT and a couple boring cars.
53:27 Speaker 01 Ford GT and a new E-Class wagon, you get to, you have some money left over for a track toy.
53:33 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
53:34 Speaker 01 It's not a bad answer, actually.
53:35 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
53:37 Speaker 01 Ford GT for what, three, for like a high, a mild one, 300?
53:39 Doug DeMuro? I kind of, I kind of solved the problem though, right there. Those two, I don't even need three. What is yours?
53:44 Speaker 02 So I mean, I can't keep the E395. I'll pull it out of contention for this, but.
53:48 Doug DeMuro? I know, I could put it in. You could have a daily for daily.
53:51 Speaker 02 Oh, okay. Well, okay. I, I, but okay.
53:54 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, the nicest one, which is 50.
53:55 Speaker 02 I'll just keep mine.
53:57 Doug DeMuro? Okay, call it 20.
53:58 Speaker 02 I can get reimbursed for it. See, I've, I've, I've made, made myself even a hole there. Um, I think, but the E395 notwithstanding, because I want to pick, just have some other stuff. Ferrari 550, I'd love to have, uh, 9 and 7 dot 1 GT3, uh, for the track car. And then probably, no, probably, oh, Mulsanne would be a killer.
54:17 Doug DeMuro? That is a, wait, that's, that's better than mine. I want to change mine now. All right.
54:20 Speaker 02 You can go back.
54:21 Doug DeMuro? 575 would be cool. I can get a 575 probably like 100, right?
54:24 Speaker 02 Uh, yeah, if you're a tip, yeah.
54:26 Doug DeMuro? Tip 575, Mercy. That's.
54:28 Speaker 02 Mercy's a good choice. Yeah. But what's that? Your track?
54:32 Doug DeMuro? Well, they'd both be track cars.
54:35 Doug DeMuro? You drive the one when the other one is overheating at the track.
54:38 Speaker 02 Right. And then. So you're gonna get eight laps between them.
54:40 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, but, but that's a lot. Like, when you think about it, then you break for lunch. You know, every time I go to a track day, you only get like four laps total because the instructors like to hear themselves talk so much that that's, there's like, it's like a five hour day and four and a half hours is the instructor being like, you go, remember when you're going to corner one.
54:55 Speaker 02 Okay, it was Nick pointing it. He's like, talk to the comms, be friends with the comms.
54:58 Doug DeMuro? That's what it was in that, yeah.
55:00 Speaker 02 But then one more, you need a luxury car then.
55:02 Doug DeMuro? Oh, then the cheapest, the E-Class wagon.
55:05 Speaker 01 You don't need to be cheapest. You got money left over.
55:07 Doug DeMuro? Uh, I got like.
55:08 Speaker 02 I say, we're not thinking big enough.
55:09 Doug DeMuro? Well, it's a good one. Well, it's a good one. What would you get?
55:12 Speaker 01 I honestly don't know what I would choose. It gets me anywhere.
55:15 Doug DeMuro? 500 dozen dollars like is like this giant world for him.
55:20 Speaker 02 Yeah, that's, um, I live in California. I don't have any kids or anything. I could have a Z8 as my daily.
55:26 Doug DeMuro? Sure. Okay, great. There's, there's 100 grand of your 500. That would be cool.
55:29 Speaker 02 Well, no, they're not 100. That's like 130 to 180 at least.
55:33 Doug DeMuro? Okay, 130.
55:34 Speaker 02 200 for a nice color.
55:35 Doug DeMuro? Fine, 130, but.
55:36 Speaker 02 But, I mean, the 550 is almost 200. The GT3 is 145.
55:40 Doug DeMuro? All right, there you go. Congratulations. You have three two-door cars.
55:42 Speaker 01 What if I want a Super?
55:43 Speaker 02 I like the Mulsanne a lot. I'm keeping the Mulsanne.
55:44 Doug DeMuro? I want a Super America. That's, can I get a Super America and a Mercy?
55:48 Speaker 02 A 320, let's call it.
55:49 Doug DeMuro? I can get a Super America for 200. Tip? 200. 220. And a Mercy for 180. So that's 400 I just spent and then a E-Class wagon. I got money left over, I'll get to you.
56:00 Speaker 01 But just so you know, your Super America top won't work.
56:02 Doug DeMuro? It won't work. What is yours? Have you ever come up with any?
56:04 Speaker 01 I've never even considered anything.
56:07 Doug DeMuro? Filippo doesn't do thought exercises, but also he would never get a daily driver, a weekend cruiser, or a track toy road legal. Like, it's just not who he is at his heart.
56:14 Speaker 01 No, I would get one car, and it would be 45 grand.
56:17 Doug DeMuro? It'd be an E-Class wagon.
56:18 Speaker 01 Yep.
56:19 Doug DeMuro? Or a C7 Corvette. You should get a new all-terrain for this money.
56:22 Speaker 01 You can get a new all-terrain for a fifth of that money.
56:24 Doug DeMuro? I know, but you, that...
56:25 Speaker 01 Yeah, I think if I were to spend 500 grand, I would get a new all-terrain probably.
56:29 Doug DeMuro? Okay, next question from Kenny H. What are your all-time favorite and least favorite factory wheels ever fitted to a car? This one I could go for decades.
56:37 Speaker 01 Literally decades.
56:38 Doug DeMuro? Pull up the F512M. Let's just start there. Let's start with the F512M and go from there.
56:46 Doug DeMuro? Filippo, they're...
56:47 Speaker 01 I'm not familiar, to be honest. Oh, yeah.
56:49 Doug DeMuro? Take out wheels. Just go to F512M.
56:52 Speaker 01 Are those not...
56:52 Doug DeMuro? These are too dark. These are too dark. We gotta, I wanna see that. I wanna see that.
56:55 Speaker 01 Really wanna see.
56:56 Doug DeMuro? Remove the word "wheels." Filippo, these wheels will change.
57:00 Speaker 01 These are quite the wheels. I agree.
57:02 Doug DeMuro? There's some debate on these wheels about whether they're the ugliest wheel or the most beautiful wheel. I think they're beautiful. The, most people think they are the ugliest wheel ever created and put on a car. Kenan, where do you fall on this?
57:13 Speaker 02 I think they're really cool. I think it's the entire car that's hideous.
57:18 Speaker 02 It's the, any of the elements in isolation would probably be fine. Maybe the headlights aren't, because the pop-up headlights on the Testeros were pretty cool. They were ridiculous.
57:25 Doug DeMuro? But they made, they're like 550 if I had an F12M. It's like what a, it's like what a bad modifier, or a Testeros, it's only a bad modifier.
57:31 Speaker 02 All this was, was to buy them time for one year to finish what they needed to finish with the 550. That was all this car was for, basically.
57:37 Doug DeMuro? What, um, okay. The worst wheels of all time.
57:41 Speaker 02 I like this.
57:42 Doug DeMuro? Yeah. Pull up the 997 lobster claw.
57:46 Speaker 02 Oh, yeah, people are gonna disagree with you there.
57:48 Doug DeMuro? They are, and they're wrong, and this isn't even a thing that I can, that I will discuss. This is the ugliest wheel ever manufactured in the entire history of wheels. Pull up this picture. Why do these wheels have so many holes in them?
58:01 Speaker 02 They're a lot of varying shapes. Some are like cresty, some are obviously circular for the lugs. And then some are like, I don't like Honda logos almost.
58:12 Doug DeMuro? These wheels have 15 holes in them and then the hole for the lug and for the tire pressure sensor. These are the, or the valve stem. These are the ugliest wheels that have ever existed. These wheels are prized in the Porsche community.
58:23 Speaker 01 Yeah. Oh, you got lobster claws?
58:25 Speaker 02 Like people just like saying it also. Don't eat them, Mike. It's not sanitary.
58:30 Doug DeMuro? Okay, give us some of yours.
58:32 Speaker 01 I'm surprised you're not going for like an AMG deep dish situation.
58:34 Doug DeMuro? I like those, but I don't, I'm not obsessed.
58:36 Speaker 02 For some of my favorites, the, um, the, hold on, the Mercedes SL 65 AMG, like the, like the 2008 one, those wheels.
58:46 Doug DeMuro? Oh, yeah, of course.
58:47 Speaker 02 Best factory, of course, like they've been taking.
58:50 Doug DeMuro? Oh, yes. The gray with the silver. Oh, yeah.
58:52 Speaker 01 Interesting.
58:53 Doug DeMuro? People, people aftermarket this wheel and it's so wild. You know, F355 had an all time, a great wheel.
58:58 Speaker 02 Yeah, F355 had an all time great, E39M5 has some of the all time great wheels. Um, yeah, I mean, there are so many really good.
59:05 Doug DeMuro? You know what a bad wheel is? That HRV wheel that I hate.
59:09 Speaker 01 Yeah, it is. It's a, it's the last gen.
59:12 Doug DeMuro? You don't care.
59:13 Speaker 01 2012, 2018.
59:15 Speaker 02 The one that when we were on the East Coast together and you showed me that Mercedes with those awful, what wheels are?
59:21 Speaker 01 Those are so, those are like new AMG wheels look like that. Yeah. Uh, but no, it's, it's the newest HRV. No, it's the last gen HRV, not the newest. It's the 20.
59:30 Doug DeMuro? Type in 24 HRV.
59:32 Speaker 01 Really? Wait, I thought it was the one before.
59:34 Doug DeMuro? I'm looking at it right here. And then go down a little, that wheel. This is one of the worst wheels I've ever seen in my entire life as a human being.
59:41 Speaker 01 That is.
59:41 Doug DeMuro? They've silvered only parts of the outside. It looks like it's been curved.
59:46 Speaker 02 Looks like a starfish.
59:47 Speaker 01 Yeah, it does look like a starfish. I thought you hit it, the HRV ones before this that were also two different colors.
59:51 Doug DeMuro? I also hate that RAV4. Remember that?
59:53 Speaker 01 That RAV4 wheel.
59:54 Doug DeMuro? But that RAV4 is like the ugliest.
59:56 Speaker 01 Good luck finding a picture.
59:57 Doug DeMuro? I know. It's, it was like a very specific trim for like one model year and no one bought it, but those are bad.
1:00:01 Speaker 01 Go to like a 2021.
1:00:03 Doug DeMuro? Give us some of your bad ones.
1:00:04 Speaker 02 Um, of course, these, a lot of these are like BMW specific, but they're, um, let me see if I can find it on the E65. There was a wheel. Hold on, I mean.
1:00:13 Doug DeMuro? The seven series?
1:00:14 Speaker 02 Yes. Uh, hold on.
1:00:16 Doug DeMuro? There was a bad E65.
1:00:17 Speaker 02 There's a website that just like has all of the wheels.
1:00:22 Speaker 01 The BMW dot wheels, isn't it?
1:00:23 Speaker 02 Something like that. There it is.
1:00:26 Speaker 01 Oh, sad.
1:00:29 Speaker 02 But they, ah, no, okay, so there is.
1:00:32 Doug DeMuro? Look at this website, go down.
1:00:33 Speaker 01 When I wrote.
1:00:34 Doug DeMuro? This is a bad wheel.
1:00:36 Speaker 01 Oh, that's a great wheel.
1:00:38 Doug DeMuro? Those were like, um, those were the, I'm here to fire your.
1:00:40 Speaker 02 But no, there's some, there's some, these are the.
1:00:43 Doug DeMuro? These were bad. They were on the E thirty, the Z three.
1:00:46 Speaker 02 Yep.
1:00:46 Doug DeMuro? Those three spokes are awesome.
1:00:48 Speaker 02 Give, just give him a minute.
1:00:49 Doug DeMuro? These were bad. They were on the E thirty eight. It, it, I thought it was impossible to make the E thirty eight look bad. Those wheels did it.
1:00:55 Speaker 02 Style seventy fives, those are them. Those wheels.
1:00:58 Doug DeMuro? Oh, my God. Wait, those were on the E sixty five, the seven, the sevens?
1:01:02 Speaker 02 E fifty three, excuse me.
1:01:03 Doug DeMuro? I've never seen those wheels in my life.
1:01:04 Speaker 02 Yeah, these were on the E thirty eight, style seventy six.
1:01:06 Doug DeMuro? This was an E thirty nine wheel? The style seventy, what is that?
1:01:10 Speaker 02 Must be for Eastern Europe.
1:01:11 Speaker 01 Extra strength on bad roads.
1:01:14 Doug DeMuro? Oh, I wish there was a website like this, just for all general.
1:01:17 Speaker 01 There is a Mercedes equivalent.
1:01:18 Doug DeMuro? This was a great wheel, that style eighty seven on the, on the four point six IS. Oh, yeah, I could do wheels for days.
1:01:23 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:01:23 Doug DeMuro? That was the E sixty five wheel we all know and love.
1:01:25 Speaker 02 Yep, and I, I remember these two, which were.
1:01:28 Doug DeMuro? Those were not good.
1:01:29 Speaker 02 Not.
1:01:29 Doug DeMuro? Nope, that, they did not last long. I don't even know if they made it past. Oh, you know what wheel I hate? You're on the BMW one sensor. Go down more. The, the E, the E, uh, there's a six series, that one wheel with the little ovals on it, I hated dearly.
1:01:42 Speaker 02 Oh.
1:01:42 Doug DeMuro? Where is that oval?
1:01:43 Speaker 02 I know what you're talking about.
1:01:45 Doug DeMuro? I'm, Ken, if I see it though, I might.
1:01:47 Speaker 02 Yeah, I'm gonna scroll up to.
1:01:48 Doug DeMuro? No, keep going.
1:01:49 Speaker 02 Six series. Let's see if we pulled up a little faster that way.
1:01:52 Doug DeMuro? Oh, it's so ugly.
1:01:53 Speaker 02 Where is it?
1:01:54 Doug DeMuro? Ugly. Give me the wheel. I know you want true. Oh, maybe they took it off because it's so ugly. They want people to.
1:01:59 Speaker 01 Too many people broke their screens.
1:02:00 Doug DeMuro? You know what I'm talking about?
1:02:02 Speaker 02 Yeah, I know what you're talking about.
1:02:03 Doug DeMuro? Why is it, oh, this, it's this, it's.
1:02:05 Speaker 01 Yeah, on the base, like, six forty five.
1:02:07 Doug DeMuro? Oh, that, the car was already ugly and then they were like, we're gonna turn it up a notch. You're gonna complain? Try us now.
1:02:14 Speaker 01 Chris Bangle went, watch this.
1:02:15 Doug DeMuro? Yeah. Hey, okay, I want to do one more.
1:02:18 Speaker 01 I've been asked, I've not been asked for my opinion.
1:02:20 Doug DeMuro? Okay, go.
1:02:20 Speaker 01 Uh, Saab nine hundred, three spokes.
1:02:23 Doug DeMuro? Three spokes?
1:02:23 Speaker 01 Good wheel.
1:02:24 Doug DeMuro? Wait, which gen?
1:02:27 Speaker 01 Uh, the.
1:02:27 Doug DeMuro? The G nine hundred, yeah.
1:02:29 Speaker 01 OG nine hundred, three spokes.
1:02:30 Doug DeMuro? The turbo.
1:02:31 Speaker 02 Yeah, those.
1:02:32 Speaker 01 Good wheels.
1:02:34 Speaker 01 Not great wheels generally, good wheels on that car.
1:02:36 Doug DeMuro? Worked on that car.
1:02:36 Speaker 02 Cool, yeah, so cool.
1:02:37 Doug DeMuro? What are the bad ones?
1:02:38 Speaker 01 I don't got none.
1:02:39 Doug DeMuro? Come on.
1:02:40 Speaker 02 There's some you don't like.
1:02:41 Speaker 01 There's none that comes to mind. I don't think about wheels in that way.
1:02:43 Doug DeMuro? Really?
1:02:44 Speaker 02 Yeah. You just think all wheels are good?
1:02:45 Speaker 01 Wheels are wheels. No, I don't think they're all good, but I, I don't, they don't hard burst race in my mind.
1:02:50 Doug DeMuro? You know what wheel I also loved? Mark four, turbo.
1:02:52 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:02:53 Speaker 02 Oh, super, yeah.
1:02:55 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
1:02:57 Doug DeMuro? And people remove them and it's such a mistake.
1:03:00 Speaker 02 I'm finding a stock one.
1:03:01 Doug DeMuro? Try to find a picture of stock one, it's impossible.
1:03:06 Doug DeMuro? Look at those wheels.
1:03:06 Speaker 02 Those chromies.
1:03:07 Doug DeMuro? I wouldn't do the chromies, but I would.
1:03:08 Speaker 01 They're not good, but I get why you like them.
1:03:10 Doug DeMuro? They're so nice. Okay, last question, last question, last question, last question.
1:03:17 Doug DeMuro? The Precision Driver asks, hey Doug, are there any plans to expand cars and bids into countries such as the UK and Ireland in the future?
1:03:24 Speaker 01 Not at this time.
1:03:25 Doug DeMuro? Not at this time? We are in Canada.
1:03:27 Speaker 01 We are in Canada.
1:03:28 Doug DeMuro? Part of the UK, or not.
1:03:30 Speaker 01 That's a great point.
1:03:31 Doug DeMuro? I don't, I've never quite understood it.
1:03:33 Speaker 01 They do look up to the Queen.
1:03:35 Doug DeMuro? You know, people got mad at me last week, I'm sorry for this sidebar, especially at the very end, but people got mad at me last week for saying that Bugatti's factory in Moslem is sort of in France and sort of in Germany. They're like, this is in France. Bugatti, when it was founded, was founded in Germany. And then France, there were some wars and one thing led to another and France got the territory back. But Bugatti, we believe is a German company, except for the time when it was an Italian company.
1:04:00 Speaker 01 Interesting.
1:04:01 Speaker 02 And it's owned by, it was owned by the Germans again.
1:04:03 Doug DeMuro? And look who has it. You couldn't even say that it's not a German company now, like they are only, they are only in France by, by location, like they are German in every sense of the word.
1:04:11 Speaker 01 Well, they are own.
1:04:12 Doug DeMuro? Volkswagen is like the Germanist German and they're the Germanist Germans of the Germans. And it was this example, it was, they gave the Germans the ability to be Germans to the max.
1:04:21 Speaker 02 If you're playing the German drinking game at home. You're having a great time.
1:04:25 Speaker 01 While we're talking about the globe, I would like to talk about one other thing. One of the shirts, the shirt that you are wearing, has a logo that looks strikingly like the Geo logo.
1:04:33 Doug DeMuro? Geo is a great company.
1:04:34 Speaker 01 And I want that to be known.
1:04:35 Doug DeMuro? You know what's on the back of this shirt? Can I even?
1:04:37 Speaker 01 You know what's on the back of this shirt?
1:04:38 Doug DeMuro? Oh God, I'm knocking over stuff. Oh my God.
1:04:41 Speaker 02 He's a disaster.
1:04:42 Speaker 01 The G500, Austrian built.
1:04:44 Doug DeMuro? It's great.
1:04:46 Speaker 01 Buy them at merge.carsandmitt.com.
1:04:48 Doug DeMuro? We're done. Thank you for watching our podcast. It was our second best one ever after last week's. Goodbye, everyone.
1:04:53 Speaker 02 Goodbye.
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