Charlamagne tha God on becoming a media mogul, culture, ownership, Breakfast Club, Kevin Hart, Jay Z, Kaepernick, missteps, tuning out public opinion, advice from his dad that has guided his journey and the side of Lenard McKelvey the world doesn't see.

"Sometimes I think you should be aware of everything and acknowledge nothing." Charlamagne Ryan Clark, Fred Taylor, and Channing Crowder sit down with Charlamagne Tha God for a wide-ranging conversation about ownership, culture, media, and building a lasting empire. Charlamagne takes us through his journey from radio and finding his voice to becoming an influential media entrepreneur and owner. He opens up about the lessons he’s learned along the way, the importance of controlling your platform, and what it means to build something bigger than yourself while staying connected to your community and culture. The conversation goes beyond the microphone as Charlamagne breaks down the business of media, the evolution of podcasting, and where he believes the industry is headed next. He also shares his perspective on Jay-Z, Colin Kaepernick, influence, power, and the responsibility that comes with having a platform. From ownership and entrepreneurship to authenticity, legacy, and the future of podcasts, Charlamagne brings an unfiltered perspective on what it takes to turn your voice into a business — and build an empire that can stand on its own. Full Episode is streaming on Netflix now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 0:29Ryan Clark?

  Breakfast Club co-host Charlamagne the God went from unemployed and living with his mom to becoming a media mogul. From radio to his podcast network, publishing company, Charlamagne has built a career on the front end of ownership. And his story is truly inspiring. There's something different about sitting down with someone for a second time. The conversation goes deeper. The guard comes down, and this one took us to places our first conversation didn't. The quote goes, "To whom much is given, much is required." Charlamagne took us inside the responsibility of ownership, what led him to put cameras in the radio studio, and importance of paying people what they're worth. We also talked about balancing friendship and work, especially as his platform

• 1:12Ryan Clark?

  has expanded into political commentary. How do you stay connected to your community while navigating the responsibility of being a journalist? And of course, we had to ask the question that's been on our minds since sitting with Colin Kaepernick. What really happened between Colin and Jay-Z? Now, this was fun, and it was a sort of Netflix collaboration. Whenever Charlamagne pivots, you know the conversation is going somewhere. So enjoy this sit-down with the versatile and always-evolving Charlamagne the God. This is The Pivot.

• 2:05Ryan Clark?

  Charlamagne, welcome back to the show.

• 2:07Speaker 02

  Happy to be here, man. What's up, Ryan? What's up, Fred? What's up, Channing?

• 2:10Ryan Clark?

  Well, normally I introduce them, so now, Channing Crowder, that's Fred Taylor, I'm Ryan Clark. Pivot fam, thank y'all for pivoting with us. First of all, congratulations on all the success.

• 2:19Speaker 02

  Same to y'all.

• 2:20Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, thank you, brother. And everything you're doing. You brought a camera into a radio show. That's before podcasting. That's before this boom in media. How were you ahead of the game at that point to make that decision?

• 2:38Speaker 02

  I was born in 1978, right? So when I was doing radio in South Carolina, the thing that was getting me noticed outside of South Carolina was the internet. And that was just with audio at the time. I remember there was two hip-hop websites. It was soh.com and allhiphop.com. And All Hip Hop had the rumors section, and there was a guy named Ilseed. I still, to this day, don't know who Ilseed is, but he would say, yo, if you've got tips or rumors or whatever it is, send them in. So I would just send him my interviews. And I remember one time I sent him an interview I did with Bun B. And Bun B had said when Pimp C was coming home. So that made, I guess at the time, national news. And then another time, I made T-Pain sing live on the radio.

• 3:22Speaker 02

  This is when he first came out. So he sang live on the radio without the autotune. Wasn't the best, you know?

• 3:30Speaker 02

  And so I let him know in the moment it wasn't the best. And that went out. And then there was another interview I did at the time. You remember the video of Vixen, Buffy the Body?

• 3:39Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 3:39Speaker 02

  Me and her was going back and forth. She ended up throwing a CD at me and stuff. So all of that stuff was going viral before viral was a thing. So to me, I was just like, yo, I'm just gonna constantly utilize the internet at every stage of the internet. We just didn't know how much the internet was gonna grow. So back then, we was just putting audio out. But then here comes YouTube. So when YouTube started coming, it just made sense. Like, yo, why not have cameras in the studio? And all the radio personalities I knew at the time, whether it was Debbie Brown in L.A., Kendra G., or even Angelie E. when she was on Shade 45, Envy, when he was on Hip-Hop Nation, Angie Martinez, like, they were putting their interviews out on video. So I was just like, yo,

• 4:23Speaker 02

  that's just something we all should be doing. So I felt like if you was a radio personality even back then, but this is before Breakfast Club. If you weren't putting your interviews on video, nobody was even really seeing or paying any attention. Plus, you gotta think, I worked with Wendy Williams, too. So Wendy wasn't necessarily doing the camera thing, but she had her show on VH1. And they were taking that radio show and putting it out on VH1. And then you still had the Howard Stern model. His show was coming out on, I think it was E. or somebody like that. So I just always felt like, why not tape your radio show and put it online? And so when we formed The Breakfast Club, we didn't have no promotion and marketing budget. Like, I heart, we were the little engine that could, you know? I wanted to say the N-word, but I'm trying not to say the N-word no more. So we were the little N-words that could. And so when that happened,

• 5:08Speaker 02

  I'm like, yo, just give us a cameraman every day. And so from day one of The Breakfast Club, we've just been recording every single episode, every single interview, and putting it online.

• 5:19Channing Crowder?

  You talk about getting a CD thrown at you, but people walk on this show sometimes and they'll look at me, even before we start, and be like, "They told me about you." And I'm sure you might get that sometimes.

• 5:30Speaker 02

  All the time.

• 5:31Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, they call you messy or whatever that is. How do you feel about when they do? When they look at you, automatically be like, you gonna say some crazy shit?

• 5:37Speaker 02

  I mean, I've earned that, right? I mean, I can't sit here and act like I don't know who I am or what I've been doing. I've been doing radio for 28 years. Even if I've grown and evolved, I'm still gonna ask the questions I feel like need to be asked. But even with that, I don't know what version of me you saw. So you might have seen a version of me from 10 years ago and feel like, oh, my God, I gotta be on my Ps and Qs when I come in here and have a conversation with him. So I can't sit here and act like I didn't earn that. Like, you've earned it, Channing.

• 6:10Channing Crowder?

  But you just accept it. Because I'd be like, man...

• 6:12Speaker 02

  It is what it is.

• 6:13Channing Crowder?

  I can't ignore that this story's been out there. I gotta ask you about this story. And it is what it is. It's on you to explain it the way you want to. I'm giving you the floor almost. That's how I'm starting.

• 6:23Speaker 02

  I think you've got good intentions, though. Same with me. I think that people know when folks don't have good intentions. Like, there was an era of radio that predates me where people did not have good intentions. You know what I mean? Like, it was about that gotcha moment.

• 6:40Ryan Clark?

  Part of the growth is being able to get that, at least perception, right? Because your intentions might always be the same, to go from where it's messy to constructive. And I think that goes into the growth of the person, though. You talked about maturing. What was that bridge from getting to, man, I'm nervous about going on this show with Charlamagne because this could be seen this way, to now, when I listen to the questions, yeah, they're difficult questions to answer, but I feel like they're fair? Did you have to work to get to that point?

• 7:15Speaker 02

  I think so. Because, I mean, the reality of the situation is like, sometimes we say we know better, but we don't necessarily do better. I've always felt that way in regards to just media, right? Because Malcolm X always said, "The person who controls the media controls the minds of the masses." And you've heard sayings like, "With great power comes great responsibility." We've always known those things. But man, sometimes, man, at least for me, when I got on Breakfast Club in 2010, I had just been fired from radio for the fourth time. I was living back home with my mom at like 31, 32 years old. I had a two-year-old daughter. So my mindset was, man, once I get back on that box, I ain't, anybody can get it. You know what I mean? I was in straight survival mode.

• 7:58Speaker 02

  I was not going back home to the most corner of South Carolina to collect unemployment checks. So I really was making it all about me. And you can't be in media and make it all about you. You know what I mean? Like, when you're in the media game, you are really here to be of service. Like, you're really here to be of service to the people that are listening to you and the people that choose to come and sit in the chair with you. Like, you gotta be of service to that person. Okay, what is this person's intention with this interview that he's trying to do today? Like, you know, Jay Shetty? If you've ever done Jay Shetty's show, that's something that he asks you in the beginning. He says, yo, this is my intention for this conversation. And then he'll ask you what your intention is. Like, I think intention setting is important. And honestly, man, I'm 48 years old now.

• 8:43Speaker 02

  Like, when I sit down with people... I want to present us in the best light. Like, I want to present people in the best light. I want them to be able to get their story across. Because the other thing I've learned is those are the things that stand the test of time. Like, you might remember a contentious moment. You might remember a moment when, you know, somebody curses an individual out. But what really stands the test of time is when you're watching a documentary of somebody 10 years later, and that conversation you had with them is in their documentary, you know? Like, when people are going back and watching that hour-long interview with Nipsey Hussle, because there might be a generation who didn't even know who Nipsey was, right? But they want to, they want to get caught up, so they go back and watch that Breakfast Club interview. Or they're gonna watch that Dick Gregory interview, or Charlie Murphy.

• 9:26Speaker 02

  That's literally how I approach it when I'm sitting down with somebody. Like, man, this conversation is gonna live forever. So let's make it a forever-type conversation.

• 9:36Fred Taylor?

  That's so good. That is really good. That's amazing to have. Those names are crazy.

• 9:40Ryan Clark?

  Say, bro, do y'all remember when Clay Matthews got his looks maxed? I mean, talking about, like, ridiculous jawline, balloon biceps, them huge calf implants? Which, by the way, I wouldn't be mad if I could get some of those.

• 9:56Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, bro. Clay definitely has some work done. Just like the new and improved Caesar's Sportsbook app.

• 10:01Channing Crowder?

  Man, it has better design, more rewards, and new ways to bet. I love the flex parlays, and this season, they have injury protection.

• 10:10Ryan Clark?

  That could have come into play this weekend with Jaden Daniels against Dallas.

• 10:14Fred Taylor?

  Or even with Sam Darnold in Week 1. So bet with Caesar's Sportsbook, the app that's been nipped and tucked to perfection.

• 10:21Ryan Clark?

  Use promo code HIVIT for an exclusive welcome offer, and check out the enhancements for yourself.

• 10:27Channing Crowder?

  You must be 21 or older to play with Caesar's Sportsbook. Offer's not available in Alberta or Ontario. Remember, betting should be fun. If you or someone you know struggles with problems gambling, help is available in almost every state where Caesar operates. You can call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MYRESSET for assistance. In Massachusetts, call 1-800-327-5050, or visit gamblinghelpline.org. And in New York, call 877-8HOPENY or text HOPENY. That's 467-369. Please play responsibly.

• 10:59Fred Taylor?

  Last time you sat here, we were all fat. Channing's still fat. Man Ryan, he's lost a lot of weight.

• 11:06Speaker 02

  Now, I told Ryan when I saw him last time, I'm like, yo, you really working out. I think, oh, he be in the gym dancing on Instagram. I'm like, he playing.

• 11:12Fred Taylor?

  He's doing his Billy Dallys, going back to Cali. But no, last time, you're talking about intentions. I think you were saying one of your biggest pivots was trying to become a different man, right? Are you still trying to become that person? Or are you comfortable and content with who Leonard is?

• 11:29Speaker 02

  I'm definitely comfortable with who I am. But no, every day, you're growing. Every day, you're learning new things. Like, I do not walk in a room closed-minded about nothing. I walk in a room looking to learn. Like, I think any of us who think we know it all, you've lost already. Like, I don't even like having conversations with people who come off as, like, experts. Like, I feel like we all got different experiences, right? And some of us share our experiences, you know, with each other. But if you just come off like you're the expert and you're the know-it-all, I don't even want to have that conversation with you, because that lets me know that you stopped learning a long time ago. Like, that's what, what do we, what do we travel for? What do we live for? What do we have different conversations with different people for?

• 12:14Speaker 02

  We do all of that because we're trying to grow, we're trying to learn. And so, you know, Fred, I know you know, that pathway to healing is not linear in no way, shape, or form. So there's different methods I've learned just to help heal me as an individual that, you know, I apply to my, my life now. So I'm definitely comfortable with who I am, but I'm also constantly growing and evolving every day.

• 12:40Ryan Clark?

  Part of that growth, I think, to me is, you know, you obviously grows the human, but you grow your space in the media. And that space has developed for you a very powerful political voice, right? And I think it initially starts with what you can contribute to a conversation. Do you have knowledgeable in this stage of, you know, politics? It doesn't have to be logical anymore. But do you have something knowledgeable that you could share with the people that allows them to become more educated on the subject? You have that. But you've also become a trusted member of the media where politicians sit down with you. How do you view your responsibility in that space?

• 13:24Ryan Clark?

  Is it a community responsibility? Is it a responsibility to the politician? What is sort of your space as it pertains to politics?

• 13:32Speaker 02

  It's hard to be community in that situation, right? Because I think that's where we all fall short, because we look at us as black people and we say, there's 40 million of us in this country, and we think we're speaking for all 40 million. Im-fucking-possible. You know what I'm saying? Like, like, like, impossible. So I have to approach it as a taxpaying citizen of America, who's a father, who's a husband, who has, you know, certain things I would like to see be better in this country, especially for my people. And I'm looking at those politicians and what I think they're not doing. And I'm asking them questions about that.

• 14:14Speaker 02

  It's just coming from a place of straight curiosity and really wanting to know. Like, I can't ever get up, get caught up in that I'm speaking for a, a community thing. I just feel like that's a recipe for disaster. Like, there's just too many landmines when you're trying to speak for a whole community, and you can't please everybody. That's why I don't even like when, sometimes you'll be on these shows and they'll be like, "So, Charlamagne, what do black people think about yo?" I can't, I can't answer for all black people. I can answer for me. You know, I'm not here to be the representation of all black people. And, you know, they do that to a lot of us. They'll bring us on these shows and want us to talk for all black people. That's your first mistake, my brother, or my sister. Like, speak for you. And, you know, based off what you've seen and the environments you've come from,

• 14:59Speaker 02

  you probably will end up speaking for a whole swath of people.

• 15:03Channing Crowder?

  I always joke, I'll be like, "Yeah, let me ask the thread, the black thread." So all the black folks on that thread. Yeah, like, how can I know what everybody black gonna think about this? But it, do you, Ryan is my, is my, I guess, my, my, my question checker. Because I ask him, I'll be like, "Hey, I want to ask this." Like, don't ask it in that way, you know? And I'll restructure the question. I still want to get, I still want to get the answer from Ryan. But I ask it in a different way than what you just asked me. I'll be like, "I got you." Do you have that? Or do you ever know somebody's coming on, have something, be like, "Let me soften this a little bit, but I'm still gonna get to the same point."

• 15:37Speaker 02

  I'd rather them correct me in the moment. Like, I'm not afraid of that. I'm not afraid of the person saying, you know, "Well, that's not exactly how it is," or, you know? I think what you're trying to say, you know what I mean? Like, I don't have a problem with a person correcting me in that moment. Or if I'm unsure about it, I'll say that. I'll be like, "Correct me if I'm wrong." But, you know, like, I don't have a problem, you know, getting corrected in that moment. I think that's another problem. A lot of people that hold shows, they gotta, they don't want to be so-called checked, you know? Or corrected. Like, I don't, I don't have a problem with that, because I feel like that's what real conversation is. If we were in here talking right now and one of us said something that wasn't accurate, one of, we would be like, "Nah, that's not the way that went." I think that's real dialogue. I don't have a problem with that.

• 16:22Fred Taylor?

  Prior to having R.C. on The Breakfast Club the other day, what was the biggest thing that you took from his interview, his sit-down with us, that you were able to actually get clarity on during that, your recent interview?

• 16:34Speaker 02

  I have an answer for this. Yeah, my, it was the two, it was the two black comments. That's all. It was just the two black comments. Because the funny thing with Ryan is everybody was acting so woe is me. I'm like, "Ryan gonna be fucking fine." I'm like, "Do y'all not watch The Pivot every week?"

• 16:48Fred Taylor?

  But you have some sort of similarities to knowing that, right? Something that happened to you and your, you know, you coming up, you just talked about going back home in 2010. So could you speak to that as well as, could you put them together?

• 17:01Speaker 02

  Fireproof. Well, what he said cleared it up for me when I asked him. You know, he wasn't saying that he felt like he was being too black. It was other people saying that to him. And that's usually the case, right? Because other people, for whatever reason, they look at being black as something that limits you. You know, they, they, they say, "Oh, you're, you're being too black," as if that's going to keep you from getting where it is that you need to be. And when I said that, when I, in the interview, I said to him, "I don't even know what that means." I'm black. I walk in a room as a black man from South Carolina. I don't know how to turn, I don't know how to turn that up. I don't know how to turn that down. I'm going to talk about black issues. I'm going to talk about black people. I'm going to talk about things that I feel like are impacting, you know, us as a community.

• 17:46Speaker 02

  Not saying I'm speaking for the whole community, but this is what I see, this is some injustices that I see happening to us as a people. I'm going to speak on it. So when I heard him say, you know, "They wanted me to be too black," the reason I asked him that is because I already knew what he meant from the aspect of, "I know Ryan don't feel like that, because I listen to him."

• 18:05Speaker 02

  Ryan ain't never turned down his blackness. So clearly that had to be coming from someplace else. And I don't even want to be around people who think being too black is a problem. My podcast network is called the Black Effect Podcast Network, on purpose. My first book that I ever wrote, New York Times bestseller, is called Black Privilege. Opportunity Comes to Those Who Create It. My book publishing imprint is called Black Privilege Publishing. We published everybody from Don Staley, which is a New York Times bestseller, to Arsenio Hall, who's a New York Times bestseller. So who says being black is limiting? You know what I mean? The largest ROI, uh, black exit that we've seen from a startup is still BET. Black Entertainment Television, when Bob and Sheila Johnson sold it for a few billion dollars.

• 18:50Speaker 02

  So who says being black is limiting? I don't even like people that, that come to me with that. You mean, we being too black? What you, what are you talking about? That's you trying to, that you look down on blackness and you think blackness can limit us. I, I don't.

• 19:03Ryan Clark?

  I feel the same way. And it was funny, I forget who said it to me recently. Somebody said that was their favorite question from the show. To give me an opportunity, because I guess in saying it, I knew why I was saying it. I didn't, I didn't make that clear. I didn't say, hey, this is what got back to me as a quote, you know? So I love the fact that you asked that. But in our jobs and what you do, there are criticisms. And I do believe at times you can learn from those criticisms and change, or if you feel like you need to. Has there ever been anything that someone has come to you and say, you know, Charlamagne, I feel that this thing is a negative about, about you

• 19:46Ryan Clark?

  that's actually helped you grow or change as a man or even in the job?

• 19:51Speaker 02

  Oh, all the time. It's, it's things that they, they, it's things they won't let you forget just about conversation. Like, I feel like, you know, sometimes we forget that honesty without empathy is brutality.

• 20:04Ryan Clark?

  Oh, wow.

• 20:05Speaker 02

  You know what I'm saying? And I think sometimes a lot of us, we get, especially nowadays, we get in front of these cameras, we get on these mic, we go, I'm just being honest, I'm just being honest, I'm just being honest. But there's no empathy to the person you may be talking to or what that person may be going through. So that's just brutality, right? So, yeah, I can look at plenty of conversations I had back in the day where I was like, oh, that was just, that was just brutal. You know what I mean? Regardless of, if somebody be like, yeah, Charlamagne, you was keeping it real. It don't matter. Like, that, to me, it was brutal. To me, I was like, yo, why did I even?

• 20:38Ryan Clark?

  I love that, though.

• 20:39Speaker 02

  Do that, you know? Why did I even say that? Why did I even approach it in that way? And I, and there's been plenty of moments that I've, I've said, okay, I could have handled that way better. I shouldn't have done that, you know? I, that, that was, I always, I think I bring, I brought this up last time, but the Floyd Mayweather situation, when I played him, you know, reading, right? You know what I'm saying? Like, I didn't have to do that. I just did that because everybody else was talking about the fact he can't read and we actually had him reading. So why not play that over the air? There was no intention in playing that other than ratings, other than, let's go viral, like, no other reason. To me, that's, that's brutality.

• 21:20Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 21:49Speaker 02

  I get this too. Sometimes funny is funny. And I think, and I think that gets me in trouble sometimes. And I think, at the point like you do, don't dare to say it all, it's comedic effect.

• 21:59Ryan Clark?

  Absolutely.

• 21:59Speaker 02

  But then there's emotions tied to it and then back to it. I would ask you, have you, because Stephen A. Smith told us this, and there's something he said. He said, "I won't apologize for my opinion. I'll apologize if my opinion upset you. I apologize that you're upset by something that I feel, which I can vibe with. But do you ever apologize for your take or your opinion of something? If it does upset somebody, I'm not changing my opinion, but I'm sad it upset you." I can see both sides, right? Because your opinion isn't a fact.

• 22:29Ryan Clark?

  Yep.

• 22:30Speaker 02

  So I might have an opinion and be wrong. So if I'm wrong, I have no problem admitting that I'm wrong. I don't know if that's an apology, but I have no problem admitting that I was wrong about said opinion. Because especially if I have an opinion and then somebody comes with some facts that completely debunk my opinion. I'm like, oh, okay, now I'm an idiot if I don't change my mind. If it upsets you, it just depends, man. Because then I, I'll say it, I'll say that, but then I'll be laughing. I was laughing at some shit this weekend I ain't even gonna lie to you, man. I don't even want to say what it is. I, I, it was so, it was, ah, I don't even want to say what it is. But I was laughing at something because I was at the iHeartRadio Music Festival

• 23:13Speaker 02

  and somebody bought up, somebody looked up something on, uh, Urban Dictionary, and for whatever reason, it said, "I coined the phrase big back." It was like, big back was popularized when Charlamagne said X, Y, and Z. And I was like, I don't believe that. I, I, I didn't make up the word big back. But I was looking at somebody on a talk show, talking about how it upset them when I said that about them, and I started laughing. Not at the person, like, not at the person, but I'm laughing at the interviewer trying not to laugh when the person said it. And so I'm laughing in the moment and everybody around me is like, all right, see,

• 23:56Speaker 02

  you ain't, you wasn't really, because I apologized to her when she made the, it was Risa Tisa, whatever. Soota Risa Tisa, Risa Tisa got a book out. But I apologized to her on the air, because I really felt like that, because I didn't want to hurt her feelings in that moment, you know what I mean? But then when I'm looking back at it, at her on Tamara Hall, for whatever reason, it made me chuckle. So I don't know if I learned anything from that situation.

• 24:21Speaker 02

  You know, because like you said, funny is funny. I'm just laughing, I'm not, I'm just laughing at the moment.

• 24:26Ryan Clark?

  If you think funny is funny, why did you hold Kevin's feet to the fire and say that he should take responsibility for the joke?

• 24:34Speaker 02

  That's interesting. I don't, I don't, I don't know if I was holding Kevin's feet to the fire because of the jokes. I think I just wanted Kevin to be able to express himself and give clarity to the fact that he isn't the one who made the joke. And also, Kevin wasn't the only person on that stage. Like, Kevin wasn't the only black person on that stage. Nobody in that moment, except for Cheryl Underwood, when she got on the microphone, you know, said something to him. Plus, I also understand comedians. Comedians got their own different set of rules and their own, own different set of principles. One of the questions I asked Kevin in that moment, and I think I asked a couple of the other comedians who came on there, what comes first, your comedy or your blackness?

• 25:19Speaker 02

  You know? So I think in that moment, I don't know if I was holding Kevin's feet to the fire as much as I was just, that's one of those moments where I'm asking the questions I know people want to hear. Because Kevin's my, Kevin's my guy. I don't ever want Kevin to come in there and leave looking crazy. You know what I'm saying? Like, I want him to be able to express himself. And I know the way he comes, the way he came on Breakfast Club, he's not going to talk like that anywhere else.

• 25:42Ryan Clark?

  Yep.

• 25:43Speaker 02

  So, yo, you might as well get it all out here and then you can just move on. And that's essentially what happened. But I don't know what to do in a moment like that. That's one of those moments that I go back to when I say, now you feel like you got to represent for the community. Because if you're up on that stage.

• 25:59Ryan Clark?

  Everybody.

• 26:00Speaker 02

  Exactly. If you're up on that stage and he makes that joke, that may not offend you. That may not bother you at all. But you gotta know George Floyd's family is watching. You gotta know it's a lot of black people watching, like, yo, what is going to happen in that moment? So even if you got to perform it, you might need to be like, hey, come here for a second, man. And whisper something in his ear. You don't got to flip over tables and slap him in the face and all of that. But you got to, the same way Tom Brady did, uh, dude, when he made the joke about Robert Kraft. You, you got to do something like that in that moment. But. If you didn't, I don't know how to react to that. Like, I don't know how I would have reacted in that moment. What would you all have done?

• 26:44Ryan Clark?

  You know, I think that's the, I think that's the thing about so many situations we see in life in general is intuit, like, when you're sitting outside of it, it's a lot of, "I would've, I would've." But when you're in it and you're in that space, it's difficult to say that you would have made a different decision. And like you said, comedy is a different place too, though. Right? And you don't know if you knew the joke. You don't know if you've made a joke that's like that and you've wanted grace for it. So I do think it wasn't as cut and dry and black and white as everybody tried to make it seem. So I agree with you.

• 27:20Speaker 02

  In that moment, I mean, I don't know, I don't know what you'd do in that moment if you're a Kevin Hart, because it's the Kevin Hart roast. You know you're on Netflix. You know all these people watching, you know. You react a certain way, then sadly, you are representing, you know, more than just yourself in that situation. So I loved what Cheryl Underwood did. And I felt like that was a moment for her. Sometimes we gotta know when, you know, a moment is for an individual. Cheryl was the person who went up there and set the table and let all of them know, like, yo, y'all not gonna play, play with us in that way. And look what happened. She ends up getting her own Netflix special in that moment. So I think that was her moment. Everybody was looking for Kevin to do the checking. Cheryl did it.

• 28:03Ryan Clark?

  She did.

• 28:04Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, but her response, even since then, has been like, just nothing more than professional. Like, she let it roll out and she leaves it at, "It's comedy and I'm gonna be okay." And you just mentioned, she was just blessed on the backside of it. I do want to ask you about ownership, right? Because people, talent, people see ownership and say, "I can do that. It looks good, it's easy. I know how to maneuver until..." They understand what's the ugly side. Payroll really being the boss in Dick and D. What has ownership taught you that talent couldn't, or being a talent couldn't?

• 28:39Speaker 02

  Well, the funny thing is, I've always understood ownership, because, you know, my father, he had a fish market growing up in Monse Corner, South Carolina, you know. So I used to be in there with him and my uncles, you know, max seafood in Monse Corner. My dad had a construction company called McKelvey and Sons, right? But my dad also had a job. Like, he did other construction on the side as well. So I've always understood both. And I've always had no problem playing both positions. I can be a general and I can be a soldier. I do it now. I'm a talent on that Breakfast Club every morning. But then I also have the Black Effect Podcast Network and I'm 51% majority owner, you know, with iHeart. For me, those are the type, those are the type of ownership situations I like. You know, I like partnership situations. I mean, I have other situations where, you know, we're in total control of the payroll and stuff,

• 29:25Speaker 02

  like The Brilliant Idiots, you know, with Andrew Schultz and things like that. But for the most part, I like partnerships. For all of the things that you just said, you know why, Fred? Because you need infrastructure.

• 29:35Ryan Clark?

  Yep.

• 29:36Speaker 02

  You know, that's what you need when you are an owner. You need infrastructure. You need those people that's checking those boxes that you're not checking. That's making sure those Ts are crossed and those Is are dotted that you're not paying attention to, because we're all still talent at the end of the day. Like, there's a reason there's no player owners in any league. You know what I'm saying? I need you to be on that field, focused on what you need to be focused on, and we'll be up here doing the executive thing. For the people that can do both, God bless. You know, I'm a, I'm an idea guy. So I'm the person that can come with a great idea and I got great teams in all my different verticals that can help me bring those ideas to life.

• 30:16Speaker 02

  So to answer your question, the one thing I've learned is that with talent, you can just be you. Show up every day, do your best. When you're an owner, you gotta have infrastructure. Because you got too many other people relying on you. Not just employees, but let's just say, like I said, the Black Effect Podcast Network, we got 60 different podcasts on the network, right? You need different producers and talent bookers, you know, that are in daily talks with these different podcasts. Just making sure everything is going the way that it's supposed to go. You know, you need a president like my good sister, Dolly Bishop, who actually runs the day-to-day operations of the network,

• 30:55Speaker 02

  who looks for, you know, new ways and ideas for us to grow and scale. You've got to have a team and you gotta have infrastructure when you're an owner. And being a talent is just the individuals.

• 31:11Fred Taylor?

  A lot of people don't understand that part of it, but it also requires an investment back into the business. Most people see, all right, this is what the revenues are. I can run out there and I can take a big piece out of it and not put it back in the business. Can you sort of, you know, walk us through whether it be a challenge or a necessity?

• 31:33Speaker 02

  No, I think it's a necessity, especially if you want your business to continue to grow and you want your business to continue to scale. Like, you know, there's certain things as an owner that I have to roll the dice on. I can't worry about, you know, iHeart, who I'm partnered with, you know, to come with this money. I would rather say, you know what? We got the revenue, we got the resources, let's try it. I don't want to have to bring everybody to the table and let's have a conversation and try to, you know, figure it out to see if we should do it. Let's just do it. If it works, then everybody will come running to the table.

• 32:08Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 32:08Speaker 02

  So that's, that's, that's the way I look at it.

• 32:10Fred Taylor?

  Right, and I ask that, just, there are a lot of people out there that look up to you and look up to us. We know a lot of those answers.

• 32:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:17Fred Taylor?

  But specifically, it's for, for them and people that aspire to be in this place.

• 32:21Speaker 02

  And I'm gonna say something else, Fred. I'd rather spend other people money.

• 32:24Ryan Clark?

  So much easier.

• 32:25Speaker 02

  It's so good. Like, I don't think people understand that aspect of ownership when it comes to being partnered with somebody. If you're partnered with somebody and you got equity in the company, that whole, yo, spend your own money. They not spending their own money. You know what I'm saying? Like, so it's like, if you are partnered with somebody and, you know, they're the big multi-billion dollar company and they're, you know, funding what it is that you're doing, it don't matter as long as that paperwork has you as the equity owner in the situation. I actually love that. I actually love being partnered with a multi-billion dollar company and we're able to have the staff that we have and we're able to, you know, pump the money into other podcasts that we do. To be able to use iHeart's sales team to go out there and, you know,

• 33:08Speaker 02

  bringing these advertising dollars to our network, like, why wouldn't I want that? Like, that is what you have infrastructure for.

• 33:16Ryan Clark?

  Bro, getting it from the bottom is overrated. Like, hey.

• 33:21Speaker 02

  From the mud?

• 33:21Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, getting it from the mud, that's, Chad, that is overrated, dawg. Nobody want that.

• 33:27Speaker 02

  Nobody want that. Yo, Jay-Z said the realest thing on Heart to Heart with Kevin Hart. He was just like, "What's the point of owning 100% of nothing?" Mm-hmm. You can have, I know plenty of people that are bragging about it. Like, y'all actually have a multimedia company. You three individuals, y'all can take this anywhere and set up shop. There's a lot of people online right now that cannot do that. They're on YouTube. You don't own YouTube, buddy. Okay, YouTube can change your monetization, they can suppress you when they want to. That is not a business. Like, social media is not a business. Like, y'all, you don't have a business. You just have a platform that somebody can take from you anytime they want to.

• 34:11Speaker 02

  That's something I peep a long time ago. That's why I didn't have any problem with, yo, thankful for YouTube and all of the discovery that it caused with The Breakfast Club. But when it came time to like, go to Netflix, I already saw where that was going.

• 34:26Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 34:27Speaker 02

  I'm like, yo, this is, we're on a platform that can demonetize us anytime. They suppress our content when they want to. Like, I can get, I remember one time I gave Donkey of the Day to, after January 6th, to the Capitol rioters, right? Like Vanilla Isis, as I called him, right? Gave him Donkey of the Day and they suppressed it on YouTube and sent us a notice that said, "This content doesn't necessarily violate our guidelines. We just deem it inappropriate." Why?

• 34:58Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 34:58Speaker 02

  For what, for what reason?

• 35:02Ryan Clark?

  Who in the room made that decision?

• 35:03Speaker 02

  For what?

• 35:04Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 35:04Speaker 02

  For giving these guys that committed an insurrection, Donkey of the Day?

• 35:10Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, we've been there.

• 35:11Speaker 02

  So, and so I knew from there, I was like, yeah, we gotta figure something else out.

• 35:15Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 35:16Speaker 02

  Who wins the argument? There's a better way to say that, but the owner, Charlamagne, and the talent, Charlamagne, have to have some disagreements on something at some times. When, what, what do you have to take off and understand, okay, no, this is bigger than that. That's bigger than this.

• 35:31Ryan Clark?

  That's, that's, that's a fantastic question. When it comes to revenue as an owner and what to pay other talent? Because I'm a talent. So, yeah, I want top dollar, right? But...

• 35:45Speaker 02

  You still gotta make business sense.

• 35:47Ryan Clark?

  Yep.

• 35:47Speaker 02

  You know what I'm saying? So I don't want, I don't want to pay nobody a dollar more. I don't want to pay nobody a dollar less. And I think that, you know, in the early stages of the podcast game, people didn't know what we should be paying individuals. So there was a lot of people getting paid what I call a cultural tax. You know what I'm saying? Like, I know what they mean to the culture.

• 36:07Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 36:07Speaker 02

  So let's make sure they're good. But then, you know, over the years, you start to see what they actually should be getting paid, which is still more than fair, right? But it's hard to have that conversation with talent, especially when you looking around at this podcast game and you're seeing all these numbers flying. Oh, this person made such and such millions of dollars. And this person made such and such millions of dollars. You just feel like, you just feel like you should be making that money. But then you gotta show people the numbers. That's why, that's one thing I'm very transparent about. Show the people the numbers. So they know we not trying to get over on them. So I think that's the biggest thing. Because as, as a talent, I want to see all talent eat. I want to see all talent get money.

• 36:51Speaker 02

  As an owner, I gotta do what makes the best sense for the business of Black Effect.

• 36:56Ryan Clark?

  I don't know if you've ever seen the movie Inside Out.

• 36:59Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 37:00Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, I think, I think the second one, by the way, if you want to watch a movie that teaches you about feelings, it's amazing.

• 37:05Speaker 02

  It's teaching kids about, like you said, their feelings, like things they probably wouldn't talk about any other time.

• 37:10Ryan Clark?

  100%. The joke we have in our house is like, who runs your board? Or who's running your board today? You know, a lot of times, they always say, I'm on, it's on we for me. That's the dude that just sit on his phone and be chilling because I be just relaxing. I'm gonna take it, make it simple for, simpler though. Who runs your board most time? Is it Lenard or is it Charlamagne? Right? Because I think sometimes you have to separate those people because they can be driven by different things.

• 37:39Speaker 02

  I think Lenard, because I think, you know, Charlamagne at this point, that's, that's just, it's a moniker, right? Like, you know what I mean? Like, it's, it's a moniker. Lenard is who I am. Like, I gotta show up as me every day. And it's always gonna be Lenard because Lenard gotta feed, you know, those four daughters at the house, you know? One daughter that's in college now. Like, I gotta do that. Like, Lenard knows he has all of these different verticals, whether it's Black Effect Podcast Network, whether it's Black Privilege Publishing Company. Like, if I do something I don't got no business doing and it's a whole system that could collapse, right? I don't want that. Like, I got people that make great salaries with Black Effect, people that got, you know, great book deals with Black Privilege Publishing.

• 38:23Speaker 02

  I want that to succeed, right? And I just feel like, man, we've seen enough of that, right? In our society, in our culture. I need to land this plane, y'all.

• 38:35Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 38:35Speaker 02

  Like, I always say, we seen too many people's planes land and them wheels didn't come out and they just crashed.

• 38:41Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 38:41Speaker 02

  We gotta land this plane. Like, we, we have not come this far to not have the wheels, you know, come out and us land the way we want to land. So, yeah, it's definitely Lenard.

• 38:52Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 39:22Ryan Clark?

  Your co-host, Andrew Schultz, has a quote. He said, Charlamagne the type of friend that if you have something in your teeth, a scar on your face, he couldn't go three seconds without mentioning it.

• 39:32Speaker 02

  My key word, my friend. I have to tell you, I have to tell you this. Like, why would I let you just sit here like that? That don't make any sense.

• 39:40Ryan Clark?

  Yeah. So I don't know if he was saying it as it's, as it's a good thing or you have impulse control, but...

• 39:48Speaker 02

  Might be a combination of both.

• 39:49Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, but, but for you, what has it been like going throughout your career trying to learn when the time is right? Right? Because I do believe there are things we don't want to be perceived as consistently or constantly that there's a time for, right? That I need to input myself into this thing in this way right now, even if there may be a negative connotation on that. How do you sort of decipher when those times are?

• 40:21Speaker 02

  The key word in what Andrew said is my, is my friend. So with my friends, I gotta, we gotta address it immediately, right? Like, I got to, like, yo, bro, what's up with you? You know what I mean? Because also, especially over the last decade with so many of us going to therapy and being able to be open with our therapists, like, we know when our, our peoples aren't necessarily right, right? So let's have the conversation. Because I want you to feel comfortable. I want you to feel like whatever it is you gotta express, let's just express it. Like, that's what I think real, you know, friends do. But when it comes to other business, other people's business, I, I pump my brakes a lot, especially nowadays. You know what I'm saying? Because there's a lot of things I'm be looking at and I'm like,

• 41:06Speaker 02

  you know, that's not right, but there's no need for me to intervene. Because if I say something, then it becomes something else. So now that person might want to have smoke with me just for having an opinion. And the other thing I've realized is we do not have all the information. We do not have all the answers. A lot of times, these stories come out and it's just the headline. It's just the surface of it. And for whatever reason, we live in this world where everybody has to pick an extreme immediately. They go to just black or white, right, wrong, good, evil. But what about all of this gray area in the middle? What if this story is just completely false, period?

• 41:48Speaker 02

  Now you done gave a whole opinion, a whole soliloquy about some bullshit. And now, now that person don't even talk with you forever. So I just try to give people the same grace I would.

• 42:00Ryan Clark?

  But you do know there's no gray area in this new world.

• 42:02Speaker 02

  It has to be.

• 42:03Ryan Clark?

  Right, like, there, there is so many times that I'll be having a conversation with them or we're having a conversation with Alicia. And I get to the point of, when I'm in the conversation, I'm saying, you know what? I could see this side of it, but I also could see this. And too, we don't know about this. And if I have that conversation about a subject, I won't talk about it on this show, right? Because if you have that level of logic and rationale, these people lose their mind. And then these people lose their mind as well. And so it gets to the, it's gotten to the point for me that I'm with you. I don't want smoke. So I'm not gonna talk about your take. Now, if there's a subject that you bring up

• 42:48Ryan Clark?

  that I believe is an interesting subject and I want to talk about that thing, I will. But I'm not into what I feel like media has become now to where Charlamagne says something, so I gotta attack Charlamagne. So Charlamagne can attack me. So I can then again attack Charlamagne. How do you feel media has morphed now into no longer being necessarily bringing people information, but starting these faux beefs that allow us all to get clicks?

• 43:18Speaker 02

  It, it keeps us going around in circles, like, like a dog chasing his tail. And the reason it does that is because we forget what the actual issue was to begin with. We forget what the actual point to this debate was and then we just start going at each other. And I, I don't ever want to, I'm not into attacking individuals anymore. Let's talk about the idea. You know what I'm saying? I want to talk about the actual issue, right? Are the institutions? Three I's. Idea, individual, I mean, it's individual, idea, institution. I don't really care too much about the individual. What's the idea? What's the institution? Those are the things I feel like we should be going at. And we see it all the time. Like, even, like, I'm, like, it's something that's going on right now.

• 44:02Speaker 02

  I see everybody attacking, you know, the celebrity that might be involved in the situation. But what about the institutions? That actually made the celebrity do what he did, right? I'm talking about the Ed Sheeran, you know, Robert Kraft, right? So it's like, shouldn't we be going after the, the institutions? Right? As opposed to this one individual? This one individual got pressure put on him by the institution. So we're gonna attack the individual. Meanwhile, the institution's gonna still do what the hell they do to, to the next individual. So I think that, that sometimes our energy is always just misdirected, you know, at the wrong thing.

• 44:38Fred Taylor?

  It goes back to what's come back to surface after 10 years. Colin Kaepernick making his run. They forget about what, why he took or why he chose to, to take the knee. I wanted to ask you because you're talking about, you know, right, left people and then this big gray area. Your DMs, what, what do your DMs look like?

• 44:57Speaker 02

  Oh, I don't check DMs.

• 44:58Fred Taylor?

  You don't check the DMs? You got people that do that?

• 45:01Speaker 02

  I don't, I don't even, no, I don't even go in my DMs.

• 45:03Fred Taylor?

  You just completely just say, I don't care what's in there? Because I'm sure there's a lot of hate. There's some people that saying, thank you for saving my life. A variety of things.

• 45:12Speaker 02

  This, this is actually on camera. This was about maybe a month or two ago. Somebody called the radio station and was like, you know, Charlamagne, I sent you a DM about such and such and such. I'm like, oh, I don't check my DMs. But it was actually something important, right? So I was just like, well, damn, let me go look. I looked, I got lost for an hour. I'm like, I'm never going back there. And then it made me feel bad because I'm looking, the people that are, some people are like, these are like legit people. And I'm like, I know this person probably think I'm a asshole. Because I didn't reply to them about this. I didn't reply to them about that. But it's just like, I don't check my DMs. I mean, I'm only on Instagram. I don't, I haven't been on X since 2018. Like, I don't know what's going on over there. I'm never on Facebook. I don't do TikTok. I'm

• 45:57Speaker 02

  literally only on Instagram. So that's the DM I went to go check. And I'm just like, oh my God, I know these people think I'm just a trained dickhead ignoring them. Like, I mean, and some of them are elders. So I'm just like, oh my God, I know this person probably thinks I'm just terrible. You know, so I don't check my DMs.

• 46:17Fred Taylor?

  AI is sophisticated. There's people on there that know how to use AI that prop themselves up to say, my son had his appendix removed and I have hard times and I'm in financial distress. It's all types of stuff on there. But then again, if you weave through it, some people that genuinely say, you know, thank you guys for saving my life.

• 46:38Speaker 02

  The good stuff, not bad stuff. People will cuss you out, tell you stupid and all that stuff. But the good stuff too, a lot of people do enjoy the encouragement and enjoy the upping of themselves. That don't do nothing for you? Nah, man. My daddy instilled in me a long time ago, you're never as good as they say you are, and you're never as bad as they say you are. And I always just operate in that space. And a great mentor of mine in radio, his name is Cadillac Jack, he always told me about the rule of ten. He said, out of 10 people, three people gonna like it, three people not gonna like it, four people don't even know what the hell is going on. And that's just literally how I carry it. Like, I don't get too high off the praise. I definitely don't get too low off the boos. It's just like, I just, I just stay like this. That's another reason I don't like to feed off social

• 47:22Speaker 02

  media so much. Because social media is that crowd that will gas you up, you know, and it'll make you feel like you have to comment on everything. You ever see people start them videos? You know, all of y'all been waiting, all of y'all been asking my opinion on this. Ain't nobody ask you nothing. You just wanted to give your opinion. And that's fine. But don't start it off like that. You know, a lot of people been hitting me up. Nobody hit you up about nothing. But the internet will make you feel like you gotta have an opinion about everything. That's why so many half-baked ideas out there. That's why so many things that if people had any real integrity, they probably would walk back. Because they realize like, oh shoot, I was wrong about that.

• 48:04Speaker 02

  Nobody ever admits when they wrong. I've admitted publicly when I'm wrong a million times. I've apologized to people on the air a million times when I feel like I got it wrong. You don't ever see anybody do that that much.

• 48:16Ryan Clark?

  I had a run where I wasn't probably necessarily factually wrong about anything, but kind of like what Channing was saying, there was an impact. And when I apologized, I apologized for the impact. I didn't say, hey, I was wrong for doing this or wrong for doing that. I was like, but if that impacted you that way, that was not my intention. And if these were the consequences of it or the fallout of it, I don't want that. And everybody's like, oh, you apologizing again. And to me, it was kind of like what you said. I got information that let me know I could have approached something in a different way. Why do you feel acknowledging that you could have done something differently or apologizing that you could have did something differently is sometimes seen as a negative?

• 48:59Speaker 02

  Because we live in this world where everybody wants to be an expert. Like, and they feel like anybody with a camera in their face or anybody with a microphone should know what it is they're talking about. But the reality is, we're all, you know, putting out content every single day. You're not going to get it right all of the time. It is impossible. It's just not gonna happen. So I think those times you get it wrong, you should acknowledge you got it wrong. Because all you're trying to do is build trust between you and your audience. Right? Like, that's literally all it is. Like, people tune into the pivot because they trust the pivot. So they gotta trust you, they gotta trust you enough to know, hey, even when they get it wrong, they gonna say they got it wrong. To me, that just, that builds more trust with the audience.

• 49:42Ryan Clark?

  When Fred started the last question, he mentioned Colin Kaepernick, who has been, he was on our show. I hosted an event with him in New Orleans. You mentioned something about the Jay-Z and reaching out and some of those things. In this situation, there's people who are really on this side and really on that side. And you seem to be in the know a little bit more. How did you come to the decision that, okay, I'm going to share this piece of the information I have?

• 50:10Speaker 02

  Only because of what you just said. When you see certain conversations happening, and you have more information, like you was front and center for a lot of things. I think it is important just to be like, ah, that didn't quite happen in that way. Because I don't want to see Colin get thrown under the bus. I don't want to see Jay get thrown under the bus. But I don't want to see them throwing each other under the bus either, you know? And I just think that a lot of the conversations that are happening right now, especially over the past week with the book promo, they've been a little, they've been a little disingenuous. Like, a lot of that didn't

• 50:47Speaker 02

  go the way, you know, Colin said it went. You know what I mean? And I also don't, it's not as nefarious as it's being made out to be as well. Because you remember, I was, you know, go back and watch the interview with Roger Goodell and Jay, I'm right there. I'm the one pushing the line on the questions, pushing the line for Colin in that moment, you know? So much so to the point that Jay had to make a joke and be like, this is Colin Kaepernick's agent, Charlamagne the God, right? Because I'm talking to Roger Goodell. I don't, Jay, respect to you and what you're doing with Inspire Change. But this is the guy. Remember how I talk about how we focus on the wrong

• 51:30Speaker 02

  person? Like, I'm not focusing on Jay in that moment. I'm focusing on Roger Goodell, the commissioner of the NFL. Roger, why does Kaepernick not have a job in the NFL right now? You know what I mean? Like, I want to hear that from him, you know? I don't know. It's just a lot in that whole scenario. I think that a lot of people don't know. And it's because you don't hear too much from Jay and Roc Nation. They're not, they're not going to acknowledge it. You know, they're not even going to speak on it. Which gives a lot of other people the opportunity to

• 52:04Speaker 02

  say one side, and then everybody focuses on that one side. And if you don't have no other side to base it on, you just be like, well, what that person's saying sounds true. But that's not.

• 52:15Ryan Clark?

  And I think for the longest time, too, Charlamagne, no side spoke. Because he was quiet for a very long time. Like you say, Roc Nation and Jay continue.

• 52:25Speaker 02

  Well, he was quiet, but not the people around him. So it's like, even when people talk about, you know, the freestyle that Jay-Z did, he was, you know, he was responding to. Things he heard. It's Colin's team, to Nessa. You know what I'm saying? Like, they were the ones talking and saying things. And, you know, like, you know, you had people from her radio station going on, you know, rants about it. So he was replying to that. It's not like it just came out of nowhere unprompted. You know what I mean?

• 52:58Channing Crowder?

  Isn't it better to be quiet than to try to argue with folk? And a lot of these, not just that one, but a lot of these, because if you're uninformed, you come put your own opinion. But you can also be misinformed. And I don't think nowadays, you talking about the folk people that don't know what the hell is going on. A lot of people, they don't know what's going on. So they gonna believe whatever they do. And if they don't hear nothing, now they gonna believe what they want.

• 53:18Speaker 02

  I fight with that every day. Sometimes I think you should be aware of everything and acknowledge nothing. And then sometimes I'm like, yo, why don't we just tell the truth? Why doesn't this person just speak their piece and tell the truth? But then you also have to say to yourself, is anybody gonna believe it anyway? Because once people have their mind made up, their mind is made up. So you might come out, say something, show receipts and everything, and everybody be like, oh, that's AI. That ain't real. Like, somebody, you know what I mean? Like, that ain't real. Like, oh, you made that up. Like, nah, nah, nah, we riding with this. Because nobody cares about the truth when the lie is more entertaining. And when people are

• 54:01Speaker 02

  already against you, they will believe anything and anybody that's against you. So it's like, do you even benefit from coming out and speaking your piece? Do you even benefit from coming out and saying your side? Does it even matter in 2026? Or do you just let people?

• 54:20Speaker 02

  Come out, you know, say what they need to say, promote what they need to promote, and, and keep it moving. I don't, I don't know, I don't know what the, the right answer is in that situation. I really don't.

• 54:30Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, speaking of the, uh, the NFL, um, family, extended family. When you have this affiliation, this alignment, let's say, for example, uh, whether you're drafted, undrafted, uh, practice squad, if you're affiliated with the NFL, people automatically assume you're rich. You know what I'm saying? Like, that, that goes around. We got this Netflix deal. People been looking at our pockets. They think we crazy rich.

• 54:57Speaker 02

  He is rich.

• 54:59Fred Taylor?

  Did you get the same thing when y'all signed with?

• 55:02Speaker 02

  His numbers was out there. Yeah, that's, yeah, that was, that was horrible.

• 55:07Fred Taylor?

  See, because, uh...

• 55:08Speaker 02

  It's still, it's still, it's, no, no, it's, it's still horrible. It's still horrible.

• 55:12Fred Taylor?

  I ran into Nikki Sparrow down in, uh...

• 55:14Speaker 02

  Oh, I love Nikki. That's the homie.

• 55:15Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, I ran into her down in Nashville. She was like, people just talking. They don't know what Charlamagne do.

• 55:20Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 55:20Fred Taylor?

  You know what I'm saying? But people would have, will assume because of the affiliation. I just was curious to how heavy it went.

• 55:27Speaker 02

  It's horrible, man. It's horrible. Like, it's, like, the amounts that people will ask you for, you know, they see a number and don't, first of all, they don't even know if that number's real, number one. But you also don't know what comes with that. Like, first of all, whatever number you see, automatically cut it in half. All right? The IRS is getting theirs. That's number one. Then you got managers, you got agents, you know, you got lawyers, right? And then I still gotta just live. I got my own overhead. Like, I got my own seed of God world, LLC, where I gotta pay nannies and, you know, this person,

• 56:09Speaker 02

  and, you know, you gotta pay for tuitions and, you know, uh, college, you know what I'm saying? Like, everything, you got more, you got, you gotta pay so much stuff. By the way, I'm never gonna be one of these guys that come on here and be like, such and such amount, ain't no money. Like, that's the, athletes be doing that and they be tripping me the hell out. They be like, they be like, a hundred million dollars ain't no money. Says who? Would you, oh, Channing, y'all, I use Channing as an example so much. When you was talking to, um...

• 56:36Ryan Clark?

  It was Bud.

• 56:37Speaker 02

  Was it Bud? No.

• 56:38Fred Taylor?

  They talking about Brandon Marshall.

• 56:39Speaker 02

  Brandon Marshall. You were saying, man, when you made that four million dollars, you was good. I say, yo, I know exactly what Channing talking about, 'cause I know my lifestyle. I ain't riding around in no spirits. I don't have no phantom, no ghost. I don't got no jewelry. And I don't do all that. That's not my thing. I'm from a dirt road in Mount Corner, South Carolina. I know how to make a dollar stretch. I know the things that I like. I like to spend money on experiences. You, you get, if you get four million dollars after taxes, I'm good. I'm good. I'm, I'm good. I'm gonna put my money in a high-yield savings account. I'm gonna make that...

• 57:11Fred Taylor?

  Five percent.

• 57:11Speaker 02

  That five percent, and I'm gonna live for the rest of my life. I swear I use Channing as an example at least 10 times, having this same conversation. Mind you, God forbid, you know, I'll, I'll be good for the rest of my life, but I think people don't understand how money works. You know what I'm saying? I saw, I saw Ryan today. It's that, yo, Howard Schultz came and, you know, invested into the media company. You know what I mean? Um, I got three texts probably in the last two hours, like, yo, how much you think Ryan got? I say, I'm about to go see Ryan right now. That you think, I was like, I said, I'm literally about to go see him right now. They like, how much you think he got? I'm like, why does that, first of all, why does that even matter?

• 57:55Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 57:55Speaker 02

  Number one. Number two, it's an investment into his media company. That's what we should be focused on. The fact that he's got some capital now to continue to grow this at scale. That's what matters. But from the environments where we come from, nah, bro. Christmas around the corner, Ryan, what's up? You know what I mean? I, I'm starving. I ain't worked all year. You know what I mean? This is, and I already noticed the, it's been rough all year. I know what the holiday is about to be.

• 58:25Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 58:25Speaker 02

  Oh, my, I can only imagine the requests, bro. Like, I can only, I can already see it.

• 58:30Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 58:31Fred Taylor?

  It, it's just funny and crazy, 'cause, uh, we got that a lot. Or we would see guys that, practice squad guys, one, living outside of their means, but also coming back to say, man, my family think I got this. They got fifty thousand dollars, something. What was your signing bonus?

• 58:46Ryan Clark?

  A thousand dollars.

• 58:47Fred Taylor?

  A thousand dollars.

• 58:48Speaker 02

  A thousand dollar signing bonus. You know, you don't get drafted, yeah.

• 58:51Fred Taylor?

  But nobody don't care about that. They see NFL, and now people see Netflix beside what we have. And it's like, come on, bro. It ain't that.

• 58:58Ryan Clark?

  The funniest thing is, is with the Netflix and with the new show, everybody wants a job. Like, that's the, you know, that's the big thing, you know, whether it's social media, whatever it is. And I think, you know, that's where it comes. You start thinking about the responsibility and obviously community. You know, it's like, yeah, I want to be a person that builds a business that can help other people. And honestly, it doesn't care what community you come from, what color you are. I do want to be able to help other people, but you can't do that being frivolous and not being efficient or disciplined with what you are given. And I think that's all just a part of it.

• 59:37Speaker 02

  But that's, that's the beauty, though. What you just said is exactly why I like being in these positions, to provide jobs and opportunity.

• 59:42Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 59:42Speaker 02

  Like, that's the, that's literally why I like being in the position that I'm in. It's not to enrich myself, you know what I mean? I always say that if what you build only benefits you, it's not big enough. I like that I got a staff, you know what I mean? I got a president of my network. We got a board. You know what I mean? Like, I don't, I said this before, I don't make no money off books, you know? But if I can help you get a book deal and that book does well, I'll make my money on the, on the back end, you know, later on in life. But it's just the, it's the ability to be able to be like, damn, you know, Jess Hilarious wants to tell her story about co-parenting. I can assist that in happening. Two Chainz wants to talk about, he wants to write a book about spirituality and the voice in his head being God.

• 1:00:27Speaker 02

  Yo, let's, let's do that. Like, we got, I got Little John coming out in October, you know? It's called, uh, I Only Shout So You Can Hear Me. 'Cause Little John is another person who's gone on this great mindfulness journey, right? Like, you can see, you can see the change in this brother. His light is different. Yeah, I want, I want him to be able to tell that story. Are able to be, to be able to salute icons, like, people that have inspired me, like Arsenio Hall, right? Be able to help him tell his story. Jasmine, we got Jasmine Guy coming out in February.

• 1:00:54Ryan Clark?

  That's dope.

• 1:00:54Speaker 02

  Her book is called A Different Girl. It's like, these are our icons that people may or may not have been thinking about, but they've inspired us so much. And I know that they inspired a whole generation. So I just wanna be in a position to help them to be able to get their stories out. That's the beauty of, you know, having these media companies and these book publishing companies and things like that.

• 1:01:16Ryan Clark?

  Man, that's dope, man. I think you are becoming just a shiny example for all people who want to turn a media career into something that becomes a global business. And that's, that is when you take it from being the talent to being the owner, that understanding in those partnerships, man. So we appreciate your time, bro. I know you busy. I know you work things to be here for us, man. So thank you, fam.

• 1:01:39Speaker 02

  Happy to be here, man. You know, I love what y'all do here at The Pivot, man. And, you know, I only expect the show to grow since Howard Schultz gave him like two billion dollar capital. At least, at least, at least.

• 1:01:49Ryan Clark?

  At least, right?

• 1:01:50Speaker 02

  Don't say that. At least. And we gonna strike that. We gonna add that part.

• 1:01:55Fred Taylor?

  You just said Christmas coming up, man.

• 1:01:57Speaker 02

  We gonna add that part, dawg. 'Cause you already know how people are, man.