Oscar Noms, 'Star Wars' News, ‘The Pitt’ Episode 3, and ‘American Primeval’

Chris and Andy react to the Oscar nominations that were announced Thursday morning (1:00), and the news that Ryan Gosling is in talks to star in Shawn Levy’s upcoming ‘Star Wars’ film (15:52). Then, they talk about Episode 3 of ‘The Pitt’ and how this show has found its stride as a hyper-realistic medical drama (33:12). Finally, they discuss the gory new Netflix show ‘American Primeval’ and why it’s still watchable despite being incredibly bleak (47:11). Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Senior Producer: Kaya McMullen Video Production: Chris Thomas and Stefano Sanchez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  If you're a fan of the inner workings of Hollywood, then check out my podcast, The Town on the Ringer Podcast Network. My name's Matt Bellini. I'm a founding partner at Puck and the writer of the What I'm Hearing newsletter. With my show, The Town, I bring you the inside conversation about money and power in Hollywood. Every week, we've got three short episodes featuring real Hollywood insiders to tell you what people in town are actually talking about. We'll cover everything from why your favorite show was canceled overnight, which streamer is on the brink of collapse, and which executive is on the hot seat. Disney, Netflix, who's up, down, and who will never eat lunch in this town again. Follow The Town on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:41Speaker 01

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• 1:25Speaker 01

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• 1:41Speaker 02

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• 2:26Speaker 03

  I need sports staff to clear the room. Stand up and walk now.

• 2:31Chris Ryan?

  Hello and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at TheRinger.com. And joining me in the studio, he puts the evil in American prime evil, it's Andy Greenwald.

• 2:47Andy Greenwald?

  Do you put the coach prime in American prime evil?

• 2:50Chris Ryan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:51Andy Greenwald?

  You think about that?

• 2:52Chris Ryan?

  That's right.

• 2:52Andy Greenwald?

  How do you think he'd fare?

• 2:54Chris Ryan?

  In the great American West? Well, he's out there in Boulder right now, man, shaping young minds.

• 2:58Andy Greenwald?

  And he can recruit.

• 2:59Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 3:00Andy Greenwald?

  So I feel like-

• 3:01Chris Ryan?

  A Brigham Young of his own, I suppose. Although, actually, after watching this series, nobody probably wants that comparison, so my apologies.

• 3:07Andy Greenwald?

  It's amazing the way we just give these ideas away for free.

• 3:09Chris Ryan?

  I know. Greenwald, amazing to see you today on the show. A little bit of Star Wars talk.

• 3:15Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, I forgot, yeah.

• 3:16Chris Ryan?

  A little bit of Homer talk.

• 3:17Andy Greenwald?

  Hmm.

• 3:18Chris Ryan?

  A little bit of the pit and a little bit American prime evil.

• 3:22Andy Greenwald?

  Good.

• 3:23Chris Ryan?

  A little bit of housekeeping at the beginning. How about that?

• 3:26Andy Greenwald?

  Let's do it.

• 3:26Chris Ryan?

  You can listen to us wherever you listen to podcasts, but especially on Spotify. You can watch us on YouTube at Ringer-TV on the old tube. And you can follow us on Instagram at TheWatchPod underscore.

• 3:38Andy Greenwald?

  You got it right that time.

• 3:39Chris Ryan?

  I did. And we'd love it if you DM us questions. You can also hit us up at our mailbag email. And that one is TheWatch at Spotify.com. And we have a great one about the pit today that I wanted to share.

• 3:52Andy Greenwald?

  Nice.

• 3:52Chris Ryan?

  From a listener. Greenwald, awesome to see you, man. I had to, as many people who listened to Monday's show were aware, go to New York without the right cables for my microphone, so apologies for the audio on Monday and apologies to everybody who felt like my vociferous defense of Severance season two was muted by my lack of technical equipment.

• 4:13Andy Greenwald?

  That's a dodge. That's an excuse. Do you feel like we should offer the stems from Monday's pod? So people could just listen to the Greenwald feed? Where it's just like-

• 4:21Chris Ryan?

  Where it's like red and blue film?

• 4:23Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 4:24Chris Ryan?

  It's just like you could have.

• 4:25Andy Greenwald?

  You could have either one.

• 4:26Chris Ryan?

  You could have a guy kind of hedging or a guy kind of taking a giant piss on it. Uh, speaking of that, man, saw a guy taking a giant leak on Sunset Boulevard on the way back. It's really good to be here. On the flight yesterday.

• 4:37Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 4:37Chris Ryan?

  Um, I took a little nap.

• 4:40Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 4:41Chris Ryan?

  And when I woke up. I could not read. Uh, I was like, my vision was blurred.

• 4:47Andy Greenwald?

  What?

• 4:48Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, like I could see. And but I couldn't read my phone. Um, and you know, I've been switching out of the glen lenses that I have to like progressive like reader lenses.

• 4:58Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, yeah.

• 4:58Chris Ryan?

  You know, you can't see anything down here. So I woke up and I was like, just straight. I was like, I'm blind. I'm blind, I'm I'm losing my sight.

• 5:05Andy Greenwald?

  So wait, talk me through for real, though, like.

• 5:06Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 5:07Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 5:07Chris Ryan?

  Let me finish. Here's what I was thinking.

• 5:10Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, this is what I want to know.

• 5:11Chris Ryan?

  Karmic payback for being skeptical of Daredevil.

• 5:16Chris Ryan?

  And the return of Daredevil. And.

• 5:18Andy Greenwald?

  Mm hmm.

• 5:19Chris Ryan?

  Guess what?

• 5:19Andy Greenwald?

  What?

• 5:20Chris Ryan?

  Who's right with me on the flight?

• 5:22Andy Greenwald?

  Uh, Vincent D'Onofrio.

• 5:24Chris Ryan?

  Deborah Ann Wool.

• 5:25Andy Greenwald?

  Close. Wow.

• 5:26Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 5:27Andy Greenwald?

  Of television's Daredevil.

• 5:28Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 5:29Andy Greenwald?

  So how could you see her?

• 5:31Chris Ryan?

  I could see middle distance. I just couldn't see, like, I couldn't read.

• 5:34Andy Greenwald?

  Were your other senses enhanced?

• 5:37Chris Ryan?

  I was wondering about like.

• 5:38Andy Greenwald?

  Feel.

• 5:38Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I, I, I mean, it wasn't so like widespread that I feel like I got my spidey senses going.

• 5:44Andy Greenwald?

  Right.

• 5:45Chris Ryan?

  But well, Spider-Man is not blind, right?

• 5:47Andy Greenwald?

  Correct.

• 5:48Chris Ryan?

  Uh, can he see in the mask?

• 5:50Andy Greenwald?

  Apparently.

• 5:51Chris Ryan?

  Okay. Uh, but Daredevil is and is able to hear crime.

• 5:55Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 5:56Chris Ryan?

  Okay, so I, I felt, I felt like I was, I was kind of shown, shown the other side.

• 6:02Andy Greenwald?

  That's amazing.

• 6:03Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 6:03Andy Greenwald?

  What is your mental, like, I, what I'd like to know is could I have the, um, Google Maps of your panic? In the sense of like, what are the step by step directions? Because. For me, if I were to wake up from a nap and have my vision impaired in any way,

• 6:19Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 6:19Andy Greenwald?

  I would say, aha, this is the end. Makes sense. Like, I wouldn't pause, I wouldn't question it, I wouldn't rub my eyes. I'd be like, here it is. I've been waiting for this day.

• 6:30Chris Ryan?

  I did Google, can you scratch your cornea?

• 6:32Andy Greenwald?

  Mm-hmm.

• 6:33Chris Ryan?

  Like, just by sleeping?

• 6:35Andy Greenwald?

  Mm-hmm.

• 6:35Chris Ryan?

  Did I, like, I started Googling corneal abrasion symptoms.

• 6:39Andy Greenwald?

  Of course, you couldn't see, so you actually were typing.

• 6:42Chris Ryan?

  And then all I did see, kind of like, was like, just blink a lot, and I did that, and eventually I was able to get back and, and just get back on Blue Sky and keep the fight going.

• 6:51Andy Greenwald?

  Blue Sky the app?

• 6:52Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 6:53Andy Greenwald?

  Do, what do you think Deborah Ann Wall thought of her blinking seatmate?

• 6:57Chris Ryan?

  I, I have to admit, I probably seemed weird and I, I felt bad. Um.

• 7:01Andy Greenwald?

  I, you know, I.

• 7:01Chris Ryan?

  She was, she was not next to me, obviously.

• 7:04Andy Greenwald?

  It's just weird because.

• 7:05Chris Ryan?

  And I'm sorry for blowing up her spot, you know?

• 7:08Andy Greenwald?

  That she flies on airplanes? I think it's okay. She's gonna have a busy few months. She's back in the news.

• 7:12Chris Ryan?

  It's not like the Taylor private plane, like, flying 20 minutes or whatever.

• 7:15Andy Greenwald?

  Born again. Yeah, I mean, I think that, you know that I have a complicated relationship with health and well-being.

• 7:20Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 7:20Andy Greenwald?

  I'm not hypochondriac. I do not think often about mortality, but I do have no, I have no brake lights, is what I'm learning. Because, as I texted you this, that like, over the last few days, you, you, you returned yesterday and you called me on the phone, you're like, what, what have I missed?

• 7:36Chris Ryan?

  And you said you thought you would be having a heart attack for five days.

• 7:39Andy Greenwald?

  Because I was just doing a lot of, like, weight stuff.

• 7:42Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 7:42Andy Greenwald?

  And pulled a muscle in my chest, and at no point was I like, that happens. I was like, well, this is just an extremely long cardiac event, and based on my recent viewings of three episodes of The Pit, I should put my affairs in order.

• 7:55Chris Ryan?

  Or start eating some baby aspirin.

• 7:58Andy Greenwald?

  Well, chewing them, right? Just constantly chewing them. That's a good look.

• 8:03Chris Ryan?

  I think we should get back to chewing aspirin. I think we should get back to walking off injuries.

• 8:07Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 8:07Chris Ryan?

  I blinked this out.

• 8:08Andy Greenwald?

  That's incredible.

• 8:09Chris Ryan?

  And I think I, my vision came back stronger.

• 8:11Andy Greenwald?

  Wait, you think you are, you are born again like Daredevil? Aspirin gets a bad rap. Let's bring back aspirin.

• 8:18Chris Ryan?

  You want to talk a little bit about the Oscars?

• 8:19Andy Greenwald?

  I do.

• 8:19Chris Ryan?

  As a guy who's seen no films?

• 8:20Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, I've got, I'm ready for this.

• 8:22Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 8:22Andy Greenwald?

  Do you, set it up.

• 8:23Chris Ryan?

  I don't really have a, I mean, a ton of observations. This was probably a little bit more overwhelmingly in favor of Amelia Perez, even more so than people could have imagined. Like, I think it's among the most nominations of, of like, it's like that and eight other movies, including Gone with the Wind and Forrest Gump, so.

• 8:43Andy Greenwald?

  But that's the company it should keep.

• 8:44Chris Ryan?

  Well, I mean, that's just, it's a shocking amount, shocking haul for that Netflix film.

• 8:49Andy Greenwald?

  By the way, good for Netflix, taking a little bet, getting to pay off. Love it.

• 8:53Chris Ryan?

  And Brutalist did quite well as well.

• 8:55Andy Greenwald?

  It did.

• 8:56Chris Ryan?

  Despite the AI controversy last week, I don't know if you saw that? That the AI helped refine Felicity Jones and Adrian Brody's Hungarian, which Brady Corbe is, has refuted that.

• 9:07Andy Greenwald?

  It is a challenging language.

• 9:08Chris Ryan?

  Hungarian?

• 9:09Andy Greenwald?

  Magyar, yeah.

• 9:09Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 9:10Andy Greenwald?

  It doesn't really flow off the tongue.

• 9:11Chris Ryan?

  Is that the, do you speak any Magyar?

• 9:14Andy Greenwald?

  No, thank you for asking, but I do have some Hungarian stock.

• 9:18Chris Ryan?

  Did you 23 and me it while I was gone?

• 9:20Andy Greenwald?

  No, I mean, go up to any Ashkenazi Jew and be like, Hungary? Be like, okay, sure.

• 9:26Chris Ryan?

  I'll have seconds.

• 9:28Andy Greenwald?

  I told you about that though, right? Never on the mic, that there was a project that I was talking about joining as a, joining the production. And they were like, yeah, we really, we really need someone boots on the ground in Hungary this December. And I was like, oh, it's really, it's really interesting. You know, I, my, my grandmother's family is from Hungary and they'd be like, oh, a homecoming. And I was like, they didn't leave under the best circumstances.

• 9:48Chris Ryan?

  Well, you should see The Brutalist.

• 9:49Andy Greenwald?

  That's not awesome. I know. I'd like to see The Brutalist. Anyway, no, don't speak Hungarian, have no opinion on the AI controversy. Went through this list of nominees and as you said, and as will, you have no surprise to anyone, have not seen many of these movies yet. But I was thinking about what value I could bring both to this podcast and to the discourse as a whole. Because obviously these Oscars are going to be covered very well by, by Sean and Amanda and the other guy who's on that podcast sometimes.

• 10:14Chris Ryan?

  And Joanna Robinson as well. She does a lot of Oscar talk.

• 10:16Andy Greenwald?

  So Sean, Amanda, Joanna and the other guy. But here's what I was thinking about. The person that I spend the most time with in my life, probably, is Sheil Kapadia. And on the Philly Special Podcast, or the NFL Show. And one of the things that Sheil does, and we've never met, big fan, but one of the things that Sheil says often is that when it comes to his hometown Eagles, and he's covered for, you know, quite a long time now. He was the beat reporter at The Inquirer, well before joining The Athletic and The Ringer.

• 10:47Chris Ryan?

  ESPN as well.

• 10:48Andy Greenwald?

  And ESPN.

• 10:49Chris Ryan?

  It's a sterling resume.

• 10:50Andy Greenwald?

  It is. Is that he's not an Eagles fan, despite Bill constantly calling him one. He is team content.

• 10:57Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 10:57Andy Greenwald?

  He wants the wildest things to happen to make the team interesting, and boy, have they delivered. I, for this Oscars, I am 100% team content.

• 11:06Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 11:07Andy Greenwald?

  In fact, I'm gonna zag away from seeing any of these movies and just say, I want Wicked to win as many awards as possible.

• 11:14Chris Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 11:14Andy Greenwald?

  I want Sebastian Stan to be the frontrunner.

• 11:17Chris Ryan?

  For Trump?

• 11:17Andy Greenwald?

  For playing Trump.

• 11:18Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 11:19Andy Greenwald?

  I want Demi Moore, I want The Substance, I want all of it.

• 11:21Chris Ryan?

  Well, Demi Moore winning is not like for team content, that's.

• 11:24Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, that'd be a nice story.

• 11:25Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, but it would just be a layup. I mean, she's, she's the favorite.

• 11:27Andy Greenwald?

  She's now officially the favorite.

• 11:29Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, she won the Globe. I think everybody's just like, it's, it's, it's her time, team to me.

• 11:33Andy Greenwald?

  I, I just think like, let's be realistic here. Here are the Best Picture nominees, okay?

• 11:37Chris Ryan?

  Yep.

• 11:37Andy Greenwald?

  We go through them. Enora, Brutalist, Complete Unknown, Conclave, Dune Part Two, Emilia Perez, I'm Still Here, Nickel Boys, The Substance, and Wicked.

• 11:47Chris Ryan?

  Yes, I've seen all of those except for Wicked and the second half of Emilia Perez.

• 11:53Andy Greenwald?

  You saw I'm Still Here?

• 11:55Chris Ryan?

  No, I have, sorry. I thought, for a second, I just blanked out and thought that was the other Bob Dylan movie, that they nominated two of them.

• 12:01Andy Greenwald?

  Would you be happier if they nominated two of them?

• 12:03Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 12:04Andy Greenwald?

  I, like, my, I genuinely feel like maybe when I see Enora, when I see The Brutalist, when I see The Nickel Boys, I may have a dog in the fight. I may be like, these are movies that are worth caping up for. But right now, I'm just. Wicked should win because it was popular like the song. That's my feeling. That is my absolutely not strong take.

• 12:24Chris Ryan?

  Would you then go forward?

• 12:26Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 12:26Chris Ryan?

  Like, let's say there's a year sometime in the next eight years, right? Where you actually see a bunch of movies.

• 12:32Andy Greenwald?

  OK, there have been those years in the past.

• 12:34Chris Ryan?

  There have been those years and I could see you. I could see you bull rushing Onora, Brutalist, a bunch of movies. Well, I can't see you go to Brutalist, but.

• 12:40Andy Greenwald?

  I want to see the Brutalist.

• 12:41Chris Ryan?

  I know, but like you're gonna go and you're gonna do the intermission and you're gonna do everything.

• 12:44Andy Greenwald?

  I love a long movie in the theater when I have no excuses.

• 12:47Chris Ryan?

  OK.

• 12:48Andy Greenwald?

  I'm just saying, like, zero, take morality out of it. Take aestheticism out of it.

• 12:53Chris Ryan?

  Why not?

• 12:54Andy Greenwald?

  Let's just provoke Sean completely.

• 12:56Chris Ryan?

  You, you can provoke Sean, yes.

• 12:58Andy Greenwald?

  I was really nice to Sean earlier in the week and it was mostly rebuffed. Cause I was saying I felt like his Jets hired a good coach.

• 13:05Chris Ryan?

  Sometimes I think people question your sincerity.

• 13:07Andy Greenwald?

  How dare you? I am extremely sincere. I'm a man who has survived a heart attack, a five day long cardiac event. And now I'm sitting here in the studio with you.

• 13:18Chris Ryan?

  As a survivor?

• 13:19Andy Greenwald?

  As, thank you. Thank you.

• 13:22Chris Ryan?

  As a survivor of a self diagnosed.

• 13:25Andy Greenwald?

  Five day.

• 13:26Chris Ryan?

  Aortic wall rupture.

• 13:27Andy Greenwald?

  Not just rupture, just like, kind of like, came and went a couple of times. I'd be like, oh, I think I'm dying. Should have a good dinner and run around with my kids for an hour. Oh, it's coming back again.

• 13:39Chris Ryan?

  You're a great chief.

• 13:39Andy Greenwald?

  It was a cool day. Anyway, who does it? Who, other than like Sean Baker and Mikey Madison and the creative community that believed and nurtured Onora? Who benefits if it wins Best Picture? You know what I mean? Like, the larger viewing public, I feel like, has weighed in on these movies. So why not you just? It's like a tank here.

• 13:59Chris Ryan?

  But why Wicked? Why not Dune?

• 14:01Andy Greenwald?

  Eh, I don't know. It's like, cause there's gonna be a third one. Like, is Dune also?

• 14:05Chris Ryan?

  There's gonna be a second Wicked. Who cares?

• 14:06Andy Greenwald?

  Great point. OK, great. I've decided to cape up for Wicked partly because it'll piss people off.

• 14:12Chris Ryan?

  OK.

• 14:12Andy Greenwald?

  I'm making a heel argument that I do not sincerely believe, but here's what I'll say. This is a tanking season. The Oscars are always like, you know, it's constantly hair pulling, fretting. We are not in touch with the movie going public, whatever the movie going public even means anymore.

• 14:27Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 14:27Andy Greenwald?

  So why not just take a tank year and just make every award?

• 14:30Chris Ryan?

  But wouldn't the logic behind that be, let's really celebrate what this medium can do and do brutalist or do Nickel Boys? I mean, look, it's-

• 14:37Andy Greenwald?

  No, nobody's gonna care about that, except us. I'm just saying, one for them, one for us, one for them.

• 14:42Chris Ryan?

  More people will go see those movies because they got nominated because they won. Sean made that point on X.com, I believe.

• 14:50Andy Greenwald?

  Sean is committed.

• 14:51Chris Ryan?

  And I agree with him.

• 14:53Andy Greenwald?

  What a week for Sean to double down on X. I just think it's visionary. It's really great.

• 15:01Andy Greenwald?

  No, but like, do you know what I mean? Like, okay, I'm being absurd, but broadly speaking-

• 15:04Chris Ryan?

  You're not being absurd, man.

• 15:05Andy Greenwald?

  What if there was an award, what if they were just like shrug emoji, which kind of-

• 15:10Chris Ryan?

  It's just funny because I don't think you would be this, I don't think you would say this if it was like Deadpool and Wolverine.

• 15:15Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, no, absolutely not. No, I'd be furious.

• 15:17Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 15:17Andy Greenwald?

  Now, you have a different take about this. So you have no other feelings about these, about these Oscars? Denzel got snubbed, but it's Denzel, so who cares?

• 15:23Chris Ryan?

  I mean, it's not who cares, but I think in, in the, in the rearview mirror, I think that that probably is more of an indictment on Gladiator 2, which was Christopher Nolan's favorite movie of the year. So maybe it's different strokes, I don't know. I don't know if there's a longer version of Gladiator 2 out there in Ridley Scott's hard drive that works better as there wasn't with Napoleon. I'm totally open to seeing that version, if it exists, because Kingdom of Heaven, the director's cut, is one of, one of the great movies from the last 20 years or so. But yeah, I just, I think it's like, all in all, a relatively fair group, like nominations. I don't really have a lot of like, how dare they? Because I actually, but the thing is, is that I don't put a lot of stock in this.

• 16:08Andy Greenwald?

  No.

• 16:09Chris Ryan?

  Uh, for myself, it doesn't determine what I see or what I love. And I'm not saying like that makes me some sort of elevated individual, I just, the award stuff is really-

• 16:17Andy Greenwald?

  Do you think Shalhoub is, is Shalhoub the frontrunner? Or is it a split ticket with, with Brody at this point? Unclear. Because my takeaway from this, again, based on absolutely nothing, totally objective, have no dogs in this fight, is that the complete unknown- Complete Unknown has, clearly has some momentum and has some real partisans.

• 16:35Chris Ryan?

  It did. I mean, I thought it really did go into Globes, I guess, and that Globes just feels like the kind of thing that would celebrate a Complete Unknown and it largely got blanked, I think.

• 16:43Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, but Norton, but Barbour, but Mangled getting one of the slots. I mean, that seems like a movie that actually has a voting block.

• 16:50Chris Ryan?

  Are you excited for Timmy's double duty on Saturday, Saturday Night Live?

• 16:54Andy Greenwald?

  Sure. Are you?

• 16:55Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 16:57Andy Greenwald?

  Is there anything he can't do in your eyes?

• 16:58Chris Ryan?

  Well, I'm holding out hope that Dylan actually plays.

• 17:02Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, that would be good. What if Dylan hosted? Like, what if Dylan showed up and just did the sketches?

• 17:07Chris Ryan?

  And then Shao May did Dylan. That would actually be very Dylan.

• 17:10Andy Greenwald?

  That's what I'm saying. I think that's cool.

• 17:13Chris Ryan?

  Okay, we'll talk more about Oscars once we've knocked a couple of them out.

• 17:16Andy Greenwald?

  Once I see a third movie.

• 17:17Chris Ryan?

  What's the number one draft pick for the thing you want to see the most?

• 17:20Andy Greenwald?

  It's still Enora and I'm just furious with myself. I've just fallen very far behind.

• 17:26Chris Ryan?

  All right. Do you want to talk about Star Wars?

• 17:28Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, I think you do and I think there's a nice segue here.

• 17:30Chris Ryan?

  Because we, because...

• 17:32Andy Greenwald?

  Because movies? I don't know.

• 17:34Chris Ryan?

  Well, I did make a Deadpool and Wolverine joke. And Star Wars, there was some news this week. Ryan Gosling is in talks to star in a new Star Wars movie. From Sean Levy, director Sean Levy, who has directed the aforementioned Deadpool and Wolverine, who did Adam's Project. Adam's Project, I think it was what it was called.

• 17:52Andy Greenwald?

  Who's Adam?

• 17:54Chris Ryan?

  Ryan Reynolds.

• 17:55Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, that's a movie he made?

• 17:57Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 17:57Andy Greenwald?

  I mean, he's done more than, that's an odd choice.

• 18:00Chris Ryan?

  Second film to say? What would be the next one you would put up?

• 18:03Andy Greenwald?

  Didn't he do like Night at the Museum franchise?

• 18:06Chris Ryan?

  I think so.

• 18:07Andy Greenwald?

  Tried to show that to my kids the other day.

• 18:09Chris Ryan?

  Comes from writer Jonathan Tropper.

• 18:10Andy Greenwald?

  Who we love, great guy.

• 18:12Chris Ryan?

  And has got a show coming on Apple very soon with Jon Hamm called Your Friends and Neighbors.

• 18:15Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, wait, I'm sorry.

• 18:16Chris Ryan?

  All right.

• 18:17Andy Greenwald?

  I just want, I've been meaning to bring this up, maybe we'll do a different pod about it, but one of the few good things about our culture at the moment is the way Netflix can just resurface and save things. And Jonathan Tropper's first TV show, Banshee, which I loved, is on Netflix and is doing great.

• 18:35Chris Ryan?

  Good.

• 18:35Andy Greenwald?

  It's semi a hit now.

• 18:36Chris Ryan?

  Good.

• 18:37Andy Greenwald?

  So people should check out Banshee if you like super violent, pulpy stuff that you won't believe that I like.

• 18:42Chris Ryan?

  Why would you be listening to this pod if you didn't?

• 18:43Andy Greenwald?

  We're doing American Primeval. Anyway, I was thrilled about that. Okay, that's the last positive thing I'll say for the next six minutes.

• 18:48Chris Ryan?

  So, details are scarce. We don't know if this is... Continued Skywalker saga. We don't know if this is a prequel. We don't know where on a timeline it is set.

• 19:00Andy Greenwald?

  Right.

• 19:01Chris Ryan?

  Um, it's all in talks, but that it was in talks close enough that Levy has reportedly stepped away from a, uh, boy band comedy he was gonna make with Ryan Reynolds and Hugh Jackman about like a boy, boy band members later in life.

• 19:17Andy Greenwald?

  Sophie's Choice. I can't believe we're getting robbed of that project.

• 19:19Chris Ryan?

  Well, if you're stepping away from that for this, then that means you're, it's a, this is a go picture. It's a go picture, says Bob Iger.

• 19:26Andy Greenwald?

  Nice.

• 19:27Chris Ryan?

  What do you think?

• 19:28Andy Greenwald?

  Would you like my personal opinion or my like industry tea leaf reading about this?

• 19:33Chris Ryan?

  I want your industry tea leaf reading.

• 19:35Andy Greenwald?

  I think, I think that's safer. Um, I think you, your read on it is correct. Um, if it has made it to the point.

• 19:42Chris Ryan?

  What's my read?

• 19:43Andy Greenwald?

  Well, that if it's being announced in the trades or being leaked in the, to the trades, um, you can always assume things are quite a few steps further.

• 19:51Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, right. So when they say so and so has been cast in a movie that's already shooting.

• 19:54Andy Greenwald?

  That, that's often the case, but if it's like shocker in talks to, that means it has, it advanced to the point that the deal is likely made.

• 20:01Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 20:01Andy Greenwald?

  And they're waiting on whatever else they need to wait on. The state of Star Wars movies is, as we have discussed, pretty disastrous. There has not been a theatrical release since 2019's Rise of Skywalker.

• 20:13Chris Ryan?

  That's right.

• 20:14Andy Greenwald?

  Since then, there have been.

• 20:15Chris Ryan?

  Mando and Grogu is coming.

• 20:17Andy Greenwald?

  That is coming. There have been, but there have been a number of next one ups, next ones up.

• 20:22Chris Ryan?

  Full trilogies announced.

• 20:23Andy Greenwald?

  Full trilogies announced and then backed away from movies that co-hosts of this podcast may, may have worked on.

• 20:30Chris Ryan?

  Kevin Feige movie, yada, yada, yada. Yeah.

• 20:32Andy Greenwald?

  Um, and none of them have come to fruition. And instead, what, there has been a constant pattern of big announcements and then a very, very drip, drip of.

• 20:45Andy Greenwald?

  Disassembling.

• 20:46Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 20:47Andy Greenwald?

  Of dissolution of these things falling apart in either spectacular ways or just subtle, let's not look at this for a while ways. The biggest example of this was the sudden announcement that Mandalorian and Grogu was gonna be the next movie.

• 21:01Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 21:01Andy Greenwald?

  And that's basically instead of a next season of Mandalorian, which was a consistent hit.

• 21:07Chris Ryan?

  Performer.

• 21:08Andy Greenwald?

  Whatever that means for the Disney plus television service. And beyond that was just another long line of question marks. The movie that I had some knowledge about that eventually has ended up being categorized as the Ray movie was likely thought to be the next one.

• 21:26Chris Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 21:28Andy Greenwald?

  I have strong confidence, based on no inside knowledge, but just strong confidence based on my awareness of how that team operates, that that is no longer happening next, if at all.

• 21:37Chris Ryan?

  Because they didn't get Jamie Foxx to reprise his role as Ray.

• 21:40Andy Greenwald?

  I think that's right, first of all. Bravo. I just wanna sit for a minute. I wanna hold space for that.

• 21:49Andy Greenwald?

  These, that would be better than a lot of their output.

• 21:52Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 21:53Andy Greenwald?

  I mean, it would be surprising at first.

• 21:54Chris Ryan?

  And for me also, it's like, representation matters. I get to see another blind man, you know?

• 21:59Andy Greenwald?

  Interesting phrasing, that you could see another blind man. I think that there's some cracks in your armor, your identity armor.

• 22:05Chris Ryan?

  As long as Ray Charles, played by Jamie Foxx, is above my reading line.

• 22:10Andy Greenwald?

  I see.

• 22:11Chris Ryan?

  It's fine.

• 22:11Andy Greenwald?

  I see. If he ever, like, drops something.

• 22:14Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 22:14Andy Greenwald?

  And reaches to get it. What happened?

• 22:16Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 22:17Andy Greenwald?

  You just start humming George out of my mind. Anyway, this is a huge, this is a huge swing and a potentially big save for Kathy Kennedy, for Lucasfilm, for the regime. Creatively, I don't know what to tell you, but like, this does appear to be a massive, massive, we have to get something moving, we have to get it on track, and we have to make some noise. When you just basically grab the director of the live-action genre movie that saved Disney's bottom line last year.

• 22:46Chris Ryan?

  Yep.

• 22:47Andy Greenwald?

  And you pair him with one of the few interesting, appealing box office, I mean, he's not a box office draw necessarily, as the Fall Guy showed us, but he is.

• 22:55Chris Ryan?

  He's a movie star, though.

• 22:56Andy Greenwald?

  He is a movie star.

• 22:57Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 22:57Andy Greenwald?

  And you put him in some robes and hand him a lightsaber, like. It's a big play. It is a very, very smart, this strikes me as a very, very smart Bob Iger play. And what it does for the legacy that is in whatever tatters it's in, who knows? But, but, but this does seem like the kind of thing that they need to do.

• 23:16Chris Ryan?

  My personal take on this?

• 23:18Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 23:18Chris Ryan?

  Fuck it. Let's go.

• 23:19Andy Greenwald?

  I love this take from you.

• 23:20Chris Ryan?

  I am not a fan of Sean Levy's cinema.

• 23:22Andy Greenwald?

  Hmm. He went right to the Adam project when Real Steel and Free Guy were right there, but okay.

• 23:29Chris Ryan?

  I think that this, if you just base it off of Levy's work, will be really glib, mixed with incredibly saccharine.

• 23:38Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 23:39Chris Ryan?

  Uh, and it's time to rip the Band-Aid off and just make a movie.

• 23:43Andy Greenwald?

  And stop pretending these are special.

• 23:45Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I think I had said, you know, we have talked about like, it needs to go away for a while. They need to reset. That's clearly not gonna work for Disney's financials. So, first of all, just, I like watching Ryan Gosling on screen.

• 23:58Andy Greenwald?

  Me too.

• 23:58Chris Ryan?

  There might be a little bit of disappointment in that it seems like he has pretty much walked away from making the Derek C. in France, Nicholas Wending-Reffen, you know, type, half Nelson type movies that he sort of built his career up on.

• 24:12Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 24:12Chris Ryan?

  He's more and more, I think, likely to be in a Fall Guy, a Barbie, this, like, and that's totally cool. Like, I, I have mixed feelings about like, this generation of movie stars. And Sean and Amanda talked a little bit, or Sean and Joanna talked a little bit about Chris Evans in this regard.

• 24:32Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 24:33Chris Ryan?

  Who's now making like two or three movies with pretty great directors. About, you know, wishing that they used their Marvel or Star Wars or whatever capital they had to make interesting films with interesting filmmakers. I think Sebastian Stan, who Sean has talked about, is a really interesting example of somebody who's like, I guess what, I'm fucking, like a big time actor now. Like, he did 10 years with one arm. And now he's like, I'm gonna go for it. I'm gonna make, you know, Christian Mingu movies and stuff. Like, it's, it's really impressive what he's doing. So there's a little bit of disappointment that Gosling is like, which camera's mine? Which one you want me to smile at? Like, but that, that, all that being said.

• 25:12Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 25:13Chris Ryan?

  He is what this whole thing is missing.

• 25:15Andy Greenwald?

  Yes. The, the anti-star strategy was not working.

• 25:18Chris Ryan?

  This is so much more exciting to me than more falony.

• 25:22Andy Greenwald?

  A hundred percent. I think the problem for me is, is the Sean Levy of it. But like, again, none of, nothing is working.

• 25:28Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 25:29Andy Greenwald?

  People like what he does. We don't, but broadly speaking, people do.

• 25:35Chris Ryan?

  Here's another thing, though.

• 25:35Andy Greenwald?

  There's one thing we've learned in the last year is to trust the wisdom of crowds.

• 25:38Chris Ryan?

  And here's another thing.

• 25:39Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 25:40Chris Ryan?

  We got Andor.

• 25:41Andy Greenwald?

  It's true. We have one for us.

• 25:42Chris Ryan?

  So I kinda, they spent a ton of money on a Tony Gilroy series. That is everything I ever wanted from this story.

• 25:51Andy Greenwald?

  Yep.

• 25:53Chris Ryan?

  And so like, I kinda, I, I, I feel like it's like, it's okay to let it go, you know?

• 25:58Andy Greenwald?

  This is very mature from you.

• 25:59Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 26:00Andy Greenwald?

  I'm less worried about what it means for our-

• 26:03Chris Ryan?

  I lost my vision, but my heart grew.

• 26:06Andy Greenwald?

  That's the sense that expanded. It's beautiful. It's really a beautiful story.

• 26:12Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 26:12Andy Greenwald?

  Um, I'm not really, I don't really care about the future of Star Wars universe. It's fine.

• 26:19Chris Ryan?

  That's why we talk about it every few weeks.

• 26:20Andy Greenwald?

  Go play with it.

• 26:21Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 26:22Andy Greenwald?

  I, I think that I'm more hung up on, I weirdly am more hung up on the Gosling of it. Because he is interesting, and he is the most interesting thing in almost everything he's ever done. And he is relentlessly charismatic and charming. And I wish that there were other showcases for that talent. Not necessarily, you know, small kitchen sink dramas. But maybe as I'm saying this, I'm realizing these, these opportunities just don't exist. Like The Fall Guy is that.

• 26:50Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 26:51Andy Greenwald?

  Like you're a charming guy, let's go have some fun. It's worth noting that like, my brain was, I was racking my brain as I was speaking, being like, well, what's the Clooney and Pitt path? And the Clooney and Pitt path was announced today as leading back to Ocean's 14 with David Leitch, who directed The Fall Guy, taking over for Soderbergh.

• 27:06Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 27:07Andy Greenwald?

  So this is, we gotta work with what we got, right? This is, this is what movies are right now.

• 27:12Chris Ryan?

  The Gosling thing is in eighteen, you know, up until 2018, so like 2000, let's just do 13-

• 27:19Andy Greenwald?

  Mm-hmm.

• 27:20Chris Ryan?

  -to 18, he goes Only God Forgives, Lost River, which he directed. The Big Short, great supporting performance in that.

• 27:28Andy Greenwald?

  Totally.

• 27:28Chris Ryan?

  Nice Guys, he's astonishing and so good in Nice Guys.

• 27:31Andy Greenwald?

  So good.

• 27:31Chris Ryan?

  La La Land. Blade Runner 2049.

• 27:34Andy Greenwald?

  Who's great in it.

• 27:35Chris Ryan?

  First man, that's 2018.

• 27:36Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 27:37Chris Ryan?

  Draw a line under it. Four years later.

• 27:40Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 27:41Chris Ryan?

  It's kind of slop city. It's like Gray Man and Fall Guy, with respect to those movies, and Barbie and...

• 27:49Andy Greenwald?

  Did you just bend the knee to Gray Man?

• 27:51Chris Ryan?

  No, I was bending the knee to Barbie.

• 27:52Andy Greenwald?

  Okay, good.

• 27:53Chris Ryan?

  Uh, and then, yeah, he's got some cool stuff coming up, I guess, but it's just a really interesting career trajectory I didn't expect to be talking about for more than 30 seconds, but I'm looking forward to him doing his best Han Solo, which is what I imagine this is.

• 28:09Andy Greenwald?

  You know, I just, I just wanted to try to find something to, to back up your point, and I, the AI-generated first result for-

• 28:15Chris Ryan?

  You don't think that this will be like a Han Solo movie, do you?

• 28:17Andy Greenwald?

  No.

• 28:18Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 28:18Andy Greenwald?

  The AI-generated first result for the film, um, Adam Project is, why was the Adam Project so good?

• 28:26Andy Greenwald?

  Do you think you just-

• 28:27Chris Ryan?

  AI, just like me.

• 28:29Andy Greenwald?

  Did you plug that in so many times that the fucking algorithm just assumed that's what everyone was asking?

• 28:34Chris Ryan?

  It would be cool if, uh, if I was answering all the AI questions.

• 28:39Andy Greenwald?

  This is an incredible idea.

• 28:41Chris Ryan?

  And it was like, why is the Adam Project so good?

• 28:44Andy Greenwald?

  Why have I lost my vision? Do I have-

• 28:48Chris Ryan?

  What, what happened to Ryan Gosling between 2018 and 2022?

• 28:52Andy Greenwald?

  He had a corneal abrasion on a cross-country flight.

• 28:55Chris Ryan?

  Can't read scripts anymore. It's like, sounds good. This isn't funny. I don't know why, for anybody with vision impairment problems, like, I'm not laughing at you. I'm joining you, honestly.

• 29:05Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, what people are hearing in real time is your discomfort at joining a marginalized community. Like, it's beautiful, it's fine, we accept you.

• 29:12Chris Ryan?

  Can I talk a little bit about Jon Bernthal joining the cast of the, the Odyssey?

• 29:17Andy Greenwald?

  Speaking of taking space, you deserve this. Yeah, take this.

• 29:20Chris Ryan?

  Do you have a sense of who he, so Jon Bernthal, uh, my favorite actor, host of the Real Ones podcast, um, is going to be in Christopher Nolan's adaptation of The Odyssey.

• 29:33Andy Greenwald?

  Right.

• 29:33Chris Ryan?

  I, if I had to guess, based on my faint memories of actually reading The Odyssey, and then also Googling characters from The Odyssey and seeing like what they quote-unquote look like?

• 29:47Andy Greenwald?

  This is awesome.

• 29:48Chris Ryan?

  Laertes?

• 29:49Andy Greenwald?

  I think that's a good bet.

• 29:51Chris Ryan?

  He had a Bernthalian quality?

• 29:53Andy Greenwald?

  I think you're thinking too small, though. I see him more as Polyphemus, the man-eating cyclops.

• 29:58Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 29:59Andy Greenwald?

  But with Wayne Jenkins' voice. Coming out of a cave to eat some sailors? I'm just setting you up. You do what you want.

• 30:07Chris Ryan?

  I am being a little bit, I want to keep it within the hash marks here.

• 30:11Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 30:12Chris Ryan?

  Do you know what I mean? Like, I know that people probably want me to be like, goddamn, goddamn Zeus, or whatever, or goddamn Poseidon.

• 30:19Andy Greenwald?

  Goddamn Odysseus. Didn't know I was dealing with super sailor.

• 30:22Chris Ryan?

  Did you see that there's a rumor that Holland is actually Odysseus in this?

• 30:25Andy Greenwald?

  I assumed that.

• 30:26Chris Ryan?

  Oh, I thought Matt Damon was gonna be Odysseus, and doesn't Odysseus have a younger brother?

• 30:34Andy Greenwald?

  A younger, a younger brother?

• 30:36Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 30:36Andy Greenwald?

  Just hanging out?

• 30:37Chris Ryan?

  Does he, or does he not?

• 30:39Andy Greenwald?

  Who did we say last week had like a second brother? I feel like there was a, there was a whole bit about that, about the lesser known, oh, it was Dahan. Dale and Dane Dahan.

• 30:50Chris Ryan?

  He made it to A-ball in the Braves farm system.

• 30:53Andy Greenwald?

  He did.

• 30:53Chris Ryan?

  Dale Dahan.

• 30:55Andy Greenwald?

  No, no, I always assumed. Cause, cause listen. Chris, Chris E. Baby.

• 31:01Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 31:02Andy Greenwald?

  Not you, Nolan.

• 31:03Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 31:03Andy Greenwald?

  You can do a classics, but you gotta make it sexy. You gotta have an Odysseus who could be married to Zendaya. Do you know what I mean?

• 31:09Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 31:10Andy Greenwald?

  This is a man, remember, Nolan's favorite movie was, what'd you say it was? Deadpool and Wolverine?

• 31:15Chris Ryan?

  Gladiator 2.

• 31:16Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 31:16Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 31:17Andy Greenwald?

  I was more interested when I thought you said the other thing. But yeah, I, I always thought that Damon was gonna be like, like Menelaus, or Zeus, or some like larger.

• 31:26Chris Ryan?

  Menelaus?

• 31:27Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 31:27Chris Ryan?

  Not Menelaus?

• 31:29Andy Greenwald?

  Uh, oh, Menel, is it Menelaus?

• 31:31Chris Ryan?

  I don't know.

• 31:33Andy Greenwald?

  Menelaus, yeah. I was Menelaus. That's, that's my Hungarian accent coming through. I just slip into it sometimes.

• 31:39Chris Ryan?

  Straight Magar with it.

• 31:40Andy Greenwald?

  I'm sorry. Just, I can't help who I am, much like you are unable to see. I can't deny my heritage anymore on this podcast.

• 31:48Chris Ryan?

  Here's my big question with the Bernthal thing.

• 31:50Andy Greenwald?

  Okay, yeah, come on.

• 31:50Chris Ryan?

  My, my thing that I was kind of most curious about with this adaptation is what vernacular it's gonna be written in.

• 31:59Andy Greenwald?

  Oh.

• 31:59Chris Ryan?

  Obviously, they're not gonna be speaking ancient Greek, although they could go the respeacher AI way, and just have everybody's voice AI'd into ancient Greek, I suppose. Uh, that might be controversial.

• 32:11Andy Greenwald?

  Might be.

• 32:12Chris Ryan?

  But do you think someone like Bernthal suggests?

• 32:17Chris Ryan?

  A more, a street level, uh, Odyssey? Like, a little bit more of a contemporary, ranacular?

• 32:23Andy Greenwald?

  He's gonna be wearing zupa pants and have gold chains? Like, I feel like you want this so badly. I think that the, the, the trick to this and the reason why people are gonna be-

• 32:32Chris Ryan?

  Hey, Odysseus, you insulted him a little bit.

• 32:34Andy Greenwald?

  This is what I'm saying.

• 32:35Chris Ryan?

  You insulted him a little bit, just a little bit.

• 32:37Andy Greenwald?

  You still lost?

• 32:38Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 32:39Andy Greenwald?

  It's not gonna be, like, high, formal, speechifying. It definitely is just gonna be like dudes fighting sea monsters while also struggling with their inability to find their way home. I, I, I'm not, that doesn't seem like the, the overwhelming question about the success of this to me. By the way, one other thing that I've learned, because I like to do real-time research, Classics Reddit seems super lit. Like, there's a bunch of headings like, "Mentolaus, is his reputation too negative? Is Mentolaus really so bad? What's up with Mentolaus being an idiot?" All of these are from your burner, by the way.

• 33:11Chris Ryan?

  These guys all write Severance recaps.

• 33:14Andy Greenwald?

  These guys all comment on our Severance coverage. Um, it seems fun, though. Like, I, I, I bring that up, it's a joke, but also, this stuff's pretty vital. You know what I mean? Like, clearly there's a robust online community that is interrogating these figures, not as stone statues, but as living things. I think it's cool. I, I'm very happy about it because we were just a week or two ago talking about how, you know, concern trolling, like, did Johnny Bernthal miss his moment? And this is, again, this is him-

• 33:43Chris Ryan?

  It shows that Christopher Nolan listens to The Watch.

• 33:45Andy Greenwald?

  For sure. This is just him coming off the bench. He's gonna deliver his-

• 33:49Chris Ryan?

  I'm, I'm putting five bucks on Laertes.

• 33:51Andy Greenwald?

  He's gonna fill out the stat sheet.

• 33:52Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 33:53Andy Greenwald?

  What do you think he'll bring to Laertes that he couldn't bring to Mentolaus?

• 33:57Chris Ryan?

  I just can't remember what Mentolaus does, honestly.

• 33:59Andy Greenwald?

  This is so cool.

• 34:00Chris Ryan?

  I gotta reread this thing.

• 34:02Andy Greenwald?

  Okay. Let's, let's do it.

• 34:04Chris Ryan?

  Should we have book club?

• 34:06Andy Greenwald?

  Book club, the Odyssey?

• 34:08Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. I can't get you to watch fucking Rogue Heroes.

• 34:13Andy Greenwald?

  What do you think Kai is thinking right now? Like she is tethering herself to this podcast that refuses to be great.

• 34:19Chris Ryan?

  I think we're low maintenance, aren't we?

• 34:22Andy Greenwald?

  Kai, are we, are we low maintenance? Do you think we should like up our coverage of ancient Greek texts to try to like connect with a different generation of listeners?

• 34:29Chris Ryan?

  With an ancient?

• 34:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, Double Down Book Club, we can get some special art going and everything.

• 34:34Chris Ryan?

  We could start wearing like, like robes when we.

• 34:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, we're on video now, so we could get some props, some outfits.

• 34:40Andy Greenwald?

  If we had a uniform, it would be such a relief now that we're on video.

• 34:43Chris Ryan?

  Oh, you want to, you want, it's because you, you want to think about what you're wearing every day?

• 34:47Andy Greenwald?

  I never want to think about it, no.

• 34:48Chris Ryan?

  You do a lot of color blocking. I guess I do too.

• 34:51Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, this is my story, color story today. It matches yours.

• 34:55Speaker 02

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• 36:58Chris Ryan?

  I didn't have any other news. Did you have any other news?

• 37:02Andy Greenwald?

  I don't think so. There hasn't been a lot of news.

• 37:04Chris Ryan?

  Okay, I'm excited to talk to you about The Pit. I love this show. We're going to talk about it through episode three. We discussed the first two episodes, I believe, right? The thing with The Pit is that it does not demand a scene-by-scene, episode-by-episode breakdown. I don't know that we'll do every episode of The Pit on this show. I wanted to start by sharing an email that we got to our watchmailbag.

• 37:25Andy Greenwald?

  This is great.

• 37:26Chris Ryan?

  That's the watch at Spotify.com. I'm going to say it's from a gentleman named Corey. Corey, I'm not going to, I'm going to leave some of these details out, but I hope that it's okay that I'm, I'm reading this. I assume it is. Anyway, big fan of the show. You guys put me onto a lot of shows I would have otherwise not heard of. So, thank you, Corey.

• 37:42Andy Greenwald?

  That's nice.

• 37:43Chris Ryan?

  If you have a moment and want to hear unsolicited medical professional thinks of The Pit, I don't know how, who else to tell about how I feel about this. So, I wanted to reach out.

• 37:52Andy Greenwald?

  It's Dr. Corey.

• 37:53Chris Ryan?

  And tell you guys that I think The Pitt, episode number one, is the single most accurate representation of what it is like to work in medicine ever captured on television. I am a cardiologist and my wife is a nurse. We watched it together and it was honestly kind of hard for both of us to watch, especially the last scene. The shared trauma of healthcare workers coming into work during the COVID pandemic is so visceral in watching this show that it made both of us emotional. What I really wanted to tell you guys is that I am sure this show is written by people who live this. I don't watch any medical shows because I typically find them pretty sappy and also wildly unrealistic. The level of detail in this show, which is accurate, has to be from writers and creators who spent real time in this world, from the hospital administrators pressuring us to

• 38:36Chris Ryan?

  Fixed problems of their own making, medical students trying to prove themselves, residents who lose their empathy, and the wait time for patients. None of that was an exaggeration. Even the small details like what color the tubes, the blood samples go in, the distinction between the charge nurse and the triage nurses, et cetera, et cetera. And then he asked something about, um, he said, uh, as an aside, the cardiologist for John Hammond Landman should have his license revoked.

• 39:00Andy Greenwald?

  Wait, that guy was so good.

• 39:02Chris Ryan?

  And did you also know that that guy is also in Lioness as a doctor with Dave Anibal? Did you see that?

• 39:08Andy Greenwald?

  I love hearing that. No, I didn't know that.

• 39:10Chris Ryan?

  Anyway, thank you to Corey for writing in. And please, if you guys have equally thoughtful emails, please share them with the watch at spotify.com. This, I've shared just to be like, yes, the show is definitely, it's got the real recipe, I think, you know? You can feel the sincerity and the authenticity of it. And I think even sometimes like what it lacks in the more artful dialogue and the kind of, you know, boy, it's a tough day today. Yes, it is a tough day. Maybe lends to that authenticity because truthfully, like, we're not Aaron Sorkin characters. We don't have rat-a-tat, beautiful, overlapping dialogue all the time. The third episode did something, though, that I just wanted to throw out there. When this show drops the hammer,

• 39:54Chris Ryan?

  and when it goes from being super procedural, granular, step by step, Dr. Robbie walking bed to bed to bed, and it does something like, when they finally call Mr. Milton, who's been under like, you know, had died of a heart attack and Whittaker's been doing the compressions and everything. And it goes from the last episode into the third episode. And they finally call it. And they cut briefly to the janitor who like says a little prayer. I'm like, you guys are fucking, you guys know what you're doing.

• 40:24Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 40:25Chris Ryan?

  This is, this is really, really, really high level television.

• 40:28Andy Greenwald?

  I clocked that too.

• 40:29Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 40:29Andy Greenwald?

  That's a beautiful moment. I, I love the show. I thought the third episode was interesting because at the beginning it did have more, at least I, I perceived more of the kind of stumbly, clumsy, like exposition.

• 40:45Andy Greenwald?

  Lack of dialogue, poetry that you're referring to. But I also just didn't, it didn't matter because it is so laser focused on, I was gonna say on what it's good at and I'm, I was, I'm very surprised and heartened by that email because I don't think we are the, this isn't the podcast where we're, you know, absolutely demanding, rigorous hewing to scientific details.

• 41:09Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 41:10Andy Greenwald?

  But it's cool to know that it, the show clearly prioritized getting certain aspects of it right and not making them, you know, and not, not selling out the reality that is compelling and important to explain in the service of, of shenanigans. I find though, the reason that I like the show and cannot wait for a next episode and, and honestly, I'm like, this is a really interesting test case in Max's strategy because it is a hundred percent trying to capture that nineties week to week ER feel, but it would absolutely crush and do numbers as a binge.

• 41:45Chris Ryan?

  Oh, yeah. I mean, I, I dare say I don't know how many of these I could watch in a row just because of the sheer

• 41:50Andy Greenwald?

  Intensity.

• 41:51Chris Ryan?

  Depression. Yeah. But you're right.

• 41:53Andy Greenwald?

  And I know that Netflix has its own version of ER called Pulse coming at some point and I'm curious to see the compare, the similarities.

• 42:00Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, that's the Miami trauma center one. Yeah.

• 42:04Andy Greenwald?

  But the, beyond all that.

• 42:07Chris Ryan?

  Who's in that? Is Justine Machado in that?

• 42:09Andy Greenwald?

  I think that's right.

• 42:09Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 42:10Andy Greenwald?

  Noah Wiley's performance in this is.

• 42:12Chris Ryan?

  He's so fucking good, man.

• 42:14Andy Greenwald?

  He's so good that I don't think it's gonna get enough attention. It is effortlessly good. He is carrying this like an old fashioned movie star. He is so present in every fiber of his character's emotional life and reactions. And that scene, there's like the running, there's a, there's a running bit where he can't even go to the bathroom to take a leak because he's needed.

• 42:35Chris Ryan?

  Keeps getting interrupted.

• 42:36Andy Greenwald?

  Too much. And the way that, I don't know, the thing that I find so compelling about both the performance and the character, and I think this speaks to the priorities of the show, is that the shit keeps getting shoveled onto him and he keeps walking forward.

• 42:49Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 42:49Andy Greenwald?

  You know, that. Potentially poorly articulated metaphor, like you could say that about a lot of characters in Prestige TV. I mean, Walter White kept getting himself into pickles, too. But there's something about the quotidian day-to-day, this is his job, and then hour-by-hour nature of the show that makes it feel so visceral and so weirdly appealing. I mean, I think that's something that might even come up in our conversation about American primeval, too, because the pit does go towards some rough things, whether it's heartbreak, loss, or viscerally showing us some kind of gnarly stuff, like, you know, the POV, "You are the tube going down someone's throat" cam, which was great. Didn't really need

• 43:28Andy Greenwald?

  that. But the reason to keep watching is there is a, there's just such a, I don't know, deep baseline of humanity in the show. I'm so entertained by it.

• 43:40Chris Ryan?

  It's interesting to watch certain archetypes from both hospital shows, but also TV tropes that are bubbling in the background, that you wonder like when they're gonna come to the fore. Like, I feel like they're obviously making, they're taking great pains to distinguish the three main medical students from each other. It's Whitaker, who is doing the compressions on the guy. Mel, who's

• 44:03Andy Greenwald?

  He's a farm boy.

• 44:04Chris Ryan?

  Sort of the socially awkward one. And then Santos, who's, you know, constantly telling people that she uses sarcasm as a defense mechanism. I'm curious to see how these people change over the course of the day, because in reality, it's just one day. You wouldn't necessarily have like a full character arc over the course of 15 hours. That would maybe be months, or it may be weeks. Oh, Javadi is also the fourth student in there. But I think it's, the little bits of TV that they sprinkle in there, like the fact that all the fentanyl victims arrive at the same time, and you think it's this, but it's that. Or, you know, the woman who keeps asking for Dr. Robbie, and the old

• 44:48Chris Ryan?

  woman who's like very sassy and Blanch Dubois-ing it.

• 44:51Andy Greenwald?

  The one in the wheelchair who's saying, yeah.

• 44:54Chris Ryan?

  Like, that's like, that feels more TV to me, but like, it also, it doesn't bother me and it's part of the sort of texture of the show.

• 45:01Andy Greenwald?

  And it's part of our shared history with medical shows and frankly with ER, which I know legally we're not supposed to keep mentioning to sort of cover Warner Brothers bacon here, but, you know, I texted you this semi jokingly and I wonder what your real take on it is, which is, there's the woman who is still holding a bed, for whatever reason, and then I remind myself it's only been like 90 minutes in real world time.

• 45:22Chris Ryan?

  Although Robbie's going around being like, you gotta clear beds.

• 45:25Andy Greenwald?

  But the one bed that he is not trying to clear is the woman whose son-

• 45:29Chris Ryan?

  Has the kill list.

• 45:29Andy Greenwald?

  Potentially has a kill list or list of people he wants to harm. You know, it's not just TV storytelling, but ER would do this too, where, you know, they would embed something and then misdirect you away from it and it would come back to haunt them.

• 45:42Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 45:43Andy Greenwald?

  So, it feels like, be very happy to be wrong, but also be very engaged if I'm right, that that kid, something is coming home to roost, that there may be victims of him or that he might-

• 45:53Chris Ryan?

  And that Robbie's resistance to ruining his life, as he says, is gonna be a problem.

• 45:59Andy Greenwald?

  I mean, I, do you have any critical feelings about that? Do you feel like this is being well seeded, is it being too telegraphed? Is it something, like, do you predict by episode eight or episode 12 that the ER would be filled with victims from this kid? Or like, I guess it's, in a weird way, I'm asking you something very specific that's really asking you something about generally how you feel about the season of TV.

• 46:24Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, like how it would, would it feel like it was almost too, I don't want to say cute, but like-

• 46:30Andy Greenwald?

  Too clever?

• 46:31Chris Ryan?

  Oh, okay, yes, right. Robbie's neglect or Robbie's like belief in this, the best parts of this kid is like what led him to having a mass trauma incident.

• 46:39Andy Greenwald?

  Or he can be a saint, which he has been through this many episodes, and still fuck up. I mean, that was the, that was the takeaway from the one aside from Santos that kind of lingered, was when she was like, you lost your first patient, at least this one wasn't your fault.

• 46:54Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 46:54Andy Greenwald?

  Which suggests that inevitably it's going to be, someone is going to make a mistake at some point.

• 46:57Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, all these doctors are being confronted with that. I just want to shout out Catherine Lanasa, who plays Dana, the head nurse. I really am enjoying that performance. She's heard her scene smoking the cigarette outside when the- Paramedic gets her arm hit by a speeding away fire truck or ambulance, which I can't. Was that stolen?

• 47:18Andy Greenwald?

  I think it was being, they left the keys in it and it was stolen.

• 47:21Chris Ryan?

  God damn, that sucks.

• 47:23Andy Greenwald?

  I like that. You know what else I like? She's great. I'm sorry. Did you want to say more about her?

• 47:26Chris Ryan?

  No, just I'd never, I don't think I had really seen her in stuff.

• 47:29Andy Greenwald?

  Low key underrated thing that's good about the show? Give me more Pittsburgh. I like Pittsburgh a lot. Did you, are you, do you have an opinion about Pittsburgh?

• 47:36Chris Ryan?

  Outside of the hospital?

• 47:37Andy Greenwald?

  I know. I don't think we need to. The show is built for us not to, but the, like the establishing shots in the first episode, even the way, and I have no idea where they shot the exteriors. I'm, I'm not here to say that they actually did shoot them in Western Pennsylvania, but there's a little hint of light or something like Pittsburgh underrated city. Good place to set this.

• 47:52Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 47:53Andy Greenwald?

  Do you ever spend any time there?

• 47:55Chris Ryan?

  I've never been to Pittsburgh.

• 47:56Andy Greenwald?

  You've never been to Pittsburgh?

• 47:57Chris Ryan?

  I don't think so.

• 47:58Andy Greenwald?

  God, walk, walk across the bridge to a Pirates game. Great. Great way to spend the day. The Warhol Museum.

• 48:03Chris Ryan?

  Well, you have, you have sort of Scranton roots, you know, you get, you get further and further.

• 48:07Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, that's pretty far.

• 48:09Chris Ryan?

  Scranton's like north, where is Scranton?

• 48:12Andy Greenwald?

  Napa, they call it, northeastern PA. But I'm not Scranton, I'm more Wilkes-Barre.

• 48:15Chris Ryan?

  I just have a real, I have real Pennsylvania blindness outside of Philadelphia.

• 48:19Andy Greenwald?

  It's like most people in Philadelphia. I'm not blaming you. I'm just saying.

• 48:22Chris Ryan?

  Let's talk about the American West.

• 48:24Andy Greenwald?

  Not just Pennsylvania's West.

• 48:26Chris Ryan?

  No, let's talk about American primeval.

• 48:28Andy Greenwald?

  Can I try to like, just connect the dot here?

• 48:30Chris Ryan?

  I would love that, man.

• 48:31Andy Greenwald?

  I feel like sometimes trying to track the over story of our podcast too, like week to week, month to month, how we're feeling about things.

• 48:38Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 48:39Andy Greenwald?

  And I'm feeling, as you could hear in my voice the other day when we were talking about Severance, like I am feeling pretty uninspired by what I'm watching in TV. The flip side of that is when it's something like the pit, I'm feeling very entertained, which is a hugely important part of the TV watching experience. It also makes me kind of question my relationship. Actually, American primeval makes me question a lot of things about myself and I'm sure we'll get into it, but like.

• 49:09Andy Greenwald?

  American Primeval wants to, I guess, either inspire or depress. And it is moving towards trying to make a grander statement of like, look what we can do on the small screen with direction and ambition and apparently unlimited budget for horse violence.

• 49:25Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 49:28Chris Ryan?

  The bone budget on this show alone.

• 49:30Andy Greenwald?

  Just wild, but it's not, it's, for me, it's failing on the things that I think it wants to be doing, but yet somehow I'm still watching both, I'm watching both of these shows, but I'm feeling more feelings from the one that I think is, has a lower ceiling of ambition.

• 49:45Chris Ryan?

  Which is?

• 49:45Andy Greenwald?

  Which is the pit.

• 49:46Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 49:47Andy Greenwald?

  But maybe I, maybe this is, maybe it's, this is not an easy combination, maybe not worth it, but like, I don't know.

• 49:54Chris Ryan?

  I definitely think that there's something to be said for, it's, it's a, perhaps a fool's errand to chase inspiration, especially on television, especially in 2025.

• 50:04Andy Greenwald?

  I think that's true.

• 50:05Chris Ryan?

  I think it's, we will be inspired this year. I think we will get to December and, and God willing, we will both be like, man, what a great TV year and this was great and this was great and I never thought, I never even heard of this person and this show was awesome and Bear was great and Dope Thief was great and all this stuff is cool, right? But I do think that what you're noticing, especially with The Pit, is that it's doing old reliable things in a new and, and more modern way, right? Like it's giving you everything that you used to get from a really well-done medical procedural ER house, whatever, but now doing it with this kind of, I mean, first of all, it does not have to play by any kind of broadcast rules, can show you things, can have people

• 50:50Chris Ryan?

  talk in certain ways. For Primeval, I'm deeply fascinated by why you're stuck with this.

• 50:57Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, it doesn't make any sense.

• 50:58Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 50:58Andy Greenwald?

  And in fact, it might not even be good, like, like that good?

• 51:04Chris Ryan?

  I think it's good.

• 51:04Andy Greenwald?

  I, I think it's.

• 51:05Chris Ryan?

  I think it's good. I think it's, it's a bit one-note, perhaps.

• 51:09Andy Greenwald?

  It certainly is that.

• 51:10Chris Ryan?

  Uh, but I think it is quite well-done and I have to say, man, just on, almost the flip side.

• 51:19Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 51:21Chris Ryan?

  This is like something that only Netflix, I think, and only could be done like today, where you have Peter Berg directing.

• 51:30Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 51:30Chris Ryan?

  And Peter Berg, for whatever you want to say about his filmmaking, puts. His performers in extreme circumstances and like puts himself in them as well.

• 51:42Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 51:42Chris Ryan?

  And the snowstorms and the gunfights and the mud and the cold and the it all feels incredibly real.

• 51:53Andy Greenwald?

  Mm hmm.

• 51:53Chris Ryan?

  Uh, and I, you know, obviously like the same way with the pant, like, I don't know if I want to just jam out prime evil after prime evil. It's very dark.

• 52:01Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 52:01Chris Ryan?

  Like it starts on a dark note, ends on a dark note. Every episode feels like that. It's, I was kind of kicking around this theory that this is like a massive, like each, each one of these plot lines is essentially a John Ford movie inverted a little bit, or at least references a John Ford movie because clearly there's references to the searchers with, uh, with the Abish plotline, but then there's like, she wore a yellow ribbon, my darling Clementine cavalry stuff with Edmund and who's doing his journal and is like, kind of confronted with like evil all around, including himself. So I, I mean, I find it very interesting to watch, but I'm, I'm so surprised because I think often you'd, you'd be like, this is just too bleak for something I don't.

• 52:47Andy Greenwald?

  Like everything, first of all, I agree with everything you're saying, especially about the filmmaking and the caliber of performance. Like this is an exceptional cast and, you know, even just, it's, it's a supporting performance, but Joe Tippett, who we liked so much in Mayor of Easttown, he's one of those guys. He has a particularly soulful, yet potentially sideways nefarious whole thing. Having him be the guy standing there, having the camera just shine, you know, Abish's light of truth on him. And I'm, I'm, I'm talking, I've watched through episode four, um, out of six is remarkable. The direction is absolutely

• 53:26Andy Greenwald?

  sick. Like it is completely of a place. And, you know, it, it's, it's interesting always to see the way certain actors become directors. And Peter Berg's obviously been a director and a very good one and an established one for as long as he's, was ever in our consciousness as an actor. So I'm not pretending this is some new thing, but his camera. Camera is one of the most exciting and dramatic actors in the show.

• 53:50Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 53:50Andy Greenwald?

  And is part of every frame. And I'm not saying that in the sense that he's elbowing the good actors out of the frame. I'm just saying it is dynamic and an incredible lead or co-lead performance. That's definitely one of the reasons I'm watching it. Another one of the reasons I'm watching it is that that kinetic camera, married with a slice of history that I know almost nothing about, overlain on a canvas of just western shit that I increasingly really, really like.

• 54:14Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 54:15Andy Greenwald?

  Awesome. Westerns are such a durable genre for people to plug their own interests and idiosyncrasies and peccadilloes into. I think that broadly speaking, I do obviously prefer like the Larry McMurtry version, or even something that I continue to think was just so underappreciated, which was the English, the Amazon show a few years ago, which, you know, which were deeply human stories,

• 54:41Andy Greenwald?

  painted with a particular set of brushes. These, this show is so

• 54:48Andy Greenwald?

  almost self-righteous in its insistence on utter violence, depravity and darkness. And you are right to flag it. And I'm kind of trying to wrestle with this. Like, why am I responding to this when generally the number one thing I'm allergic to is shows whose bottom line is, yep, you don't know how dark humans can really get.

• 55:07Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I don't, I don't actually know how self-righteous it is.

• 55:09Andy Greenwald?

  Not self-righteous, that, that, that adds a pejorative nature to what I'm saying. I don't want to say self-righteous. Insistent.

• 55:17Chris Ryan?

  It's pretty matter of fact to me. Yeah, okay, so insistent.

• 55:19Andy Greenwald?

  It's insistent that everything is going to be worse. You know, perhaps most, at least through four episodes, most evidenced by the, you know, the little girl with the doll is like, please help me find my mom. And then draws the, the group into a nightmare of sexual violence and violence, violence. No good deed goes unpunished on this show. Even putting a child on a horse. You know, like it's, it's hideous. And yet, do you think, can you play my psychologist here for a moment? Something you will have to do again during the NFC championship game in just a few days.

• 55:55Chris Ryan?

  Maybe on text message.

• 55:57Andy Greenwald?

  God damn it. Do you, what if I cooked? Would that help?

• 56:04Andy Greenwald?

  Why, why do I, why am I drawn to it, do you think? Because there, not just because it's like.

• 56:10Chris Ryan?

  It's, it's just, it's not boring.

• 56:11Andy Greenwald?

  No, it's definitely not boring.

• 56:12Chris Ryan?

  It, the production value is incredible. I think across the board, there are very good performances.

• 56:18Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 56:19Chris Ryan?

  And I think there's enough going on that it balances itself out where it doesn't feel like anything is like taking your medicine.

• 56:29Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, I think that's right.

• 56:30Chris Ryan?

  You know, like, I, I don't, I, I think you could make an argument that this could have been a 12-episode show and it could have been more Mormons and more Redfeather and more here and there. But instead, it actually is very flea to flip. And I don't know if it would have been a, I don't know if the vibe would have been sustainable if it had been much longer than what it is.

• 56:50Andy Greenwald?

  I think that's a good point. I think it, it is kind of a tweener because there are enough characters here and enough, clearly enough historical record and, and literally enough geography to have expanded it and given people more room to, to be fuller people. There's also a two-hour movie version of this. They would have had to have chosen a protagonist. Because one of the things that I find kind of curious about it through four episodes is it's a sort of a piecemeal approach to, it's like super basic, but like who the audience is meant to identify with or care about.

• 57:22Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 57:22Andy Greenwald?

  Coming out of the first two episodes, I thought Two Moons was maybe going to be more of a focal point.

• 57:27Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 57:27Andy Greenwald?

  She is almost entirely absent. I mean, it's snowing a lot, so it's hard to see.

• 57:31Chris Ryan?

  She's.

• 57:32Andy Greenwald?

  In episode four.

• 57:33Chris Ryan?

  Maybe, maybe we'll get something more from, from.

• 57:35Andy Greenwald?

  I'm sure, I'm sure there's more for everyone.

• 57:37Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 57:38Andy Greenwald?

  But it is kind of a tweener in the sense that like, people are, there are moments where they suggest greater depth and then more violence happens and we just keep the ball rolling. So it's kind of in between. I'm curious where this, where it nets out. But again, I, I remain curious and I just really like, like Lucas Neff, who's playing the guy that's, that's journaling.

• 57:58Chris Ryan?

  Great work.

• 57:59Andy Greenwald?

  He's doing great work in like archetypal work too, right? Like just sort of a sad-eyed kind of like, there's, there's, there's a little McConaughey, there's a little Owen Wilson texture. It's just very well done. I asked you this over text. I think we should hash it out on the mic, like. I think within every podcast, there's an Abish and a Sarah.

• 58:23Andy Greenwald?

  I think we all know the answer to this.

• 58:25Chris Ryan?

  I think that I, I, I think that, you know,

• 58:29Chris Ryan?

  I probably would say I'm more Abish.

• 58:32Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 58:32Chris Ryan?

  I try to, I try to, you know, Sarah, but Sarah, I mean, both these people go through quite a bit of, of.

• 58:37Andy Greenwald?

  I think, I, I think Abish at times beggars belief because she's real. Maybe she's just like.

• 58:44Chris Ryan?

  She's adaptable.

• 58:45Andy Greenwald?

  She's real malleable.

• 58:47Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 58:47Andy Greenwald?

  To situate, but you are too. You plug into any podcast.

• 58:49Chris Ryan?

  That's what I was thinking, yeah.

• 58:50Andy Greenwald?

  I see that.

• 58:50Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 58:52Andy Greenwald?

  Like you're a survivor too.

• 58:53Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 58:54Andy Greenwald?

  You know what I mean? Like,

• 58:57Andy Greenwald?

  I, I would just say, like, I, if this podcast was ever traded, like, I don't think I would make it out of the, the Paiute camp. But I think that you could probably become Shoshone.

• 59:08Chris Ryan?

  Well, I would be, it would be really funny if you were just like, I'm good. I'm just gonna stay here at Fort Bridger.

• 59:13Andy Greenwald?

  A hundred percent. Fort Bridger seems fine.

• 59:16Chris Ryan?

  Well, Fort Bridger is just basically like a pile of wood next to a river. The idea that it's like.

• 59:20Andy Greenwald?

  He has pigs.

• 59:21Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I know, I know.

• 59:22Andy Greenwald?

  He has pigs.

• 59:23Chris Ryan?

  And Walt Bill, really one of those pigs.

• 59:26Andy Greenwald?

  Do you think? It reminded me, like, when you see inju-, so, I don't know why we're talking, like, everyone's watched the show, but I think a lot of people have watched the show, but, but Jay Wiggums Bridger, who is by far the closest thing the show has to like.

• 59:40Chris Ryan?

  Recognizable Western hero kinda guy.

• 59:42Andy Greenwald?

  And a historical figure and also a good time kind of.

• 59:45Chris Ryan?

  Bring him Young's a historical figure too.

• 59:46Andy Greenwald?

  Are you sure?

• 59:47Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 59:47Andy Greenwald?

  Yes, he is. Uh, he, out of nowhere, delivers a really vicious injury to one of Governor Young's.

• 59:57Chris Ryan?

  And cuts a guy's foot off with his shovel.

• 59:59Andy Greenwald?

  Or like, I don't think, it's not a full sever.

• 1:00:01Chris Ryan?

  Cuts it in half, yeah.

• 1:00:03Andy Greenwald?

  I was like, so how does that show up on the injury report after Wednesday's walkthrough? Do you know what I mean? Like, I was watching that and maybe I'm watching too much sports. But generally now, like, we watched a guy who we liked quite a bit.

• 1:00:15Chris Ryan?

  Well, especially back then and in that environment, that's getting infected.

• 1:00:19Andy Greenwald?

  This is my point about the show that I, I, maybe we need, could Cory from the previous email write in about this?

• 1:00:25Chris Ryan?

  About American primeval orthopedic surgeon?

• 1:00:28Andy Greenwald?

  Because a few weeks ago, we watched a player who we care a lot about, N'Kobe Dean, tear his patellar tendon.

• 1:00:33Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:34Andy Greenwald?

  On the field. And immediately we were like, oh, he'll be ready for next season.

• 1:00:37Chris Ryan?

  No, you said that.

• 1:00:40Andy Greenwald?

  We hoped, we were rooting for him, but also we have come to believe-

• 1:00:42Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I love your Goby Dean, but he seemed very distraught.

• 1:00:46Andy Greenwald?

  Well, he correct, right. No, I didn't. You're saying that I thought he'd be like-

• 1:00:49Chris Ryan?

  You're like, no, no, no, no, he'll be back.

• 1:00:51Andy Greenwald?

  By the way, you started this podcast by being like, quote, "We should walk off more injuries." So consistency, please. I'm just saying that like, that has infected my mind that anything is possible. Whereas in this show, if someone's mostly severed your foot with a shovel, that's a DNP. You know what I mean? Like, that's it for you in terms of walking good. Similarly, I am impressed at the resilience of Brother Pratt, who had his head cut off, his wig lifted.

• 1:01:22Chris Ryan?

  He's doing amazing things with half a head.

• 1:01:25Andy Greenwald?

  He's doing amazing things. Like, what properties does this sack have?

• 1:01:28Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:28Andy Greenwald?

  They just threw a sack on it. It is kind of the advice he used to give after watching, binging a season of House. He's like, "Just put a wet towel on it, you'll be fine." Uh, okay, I do need some medical updates, but then again, what are the choices they have? You either learn to live with half a foot, or what?

• 1:01:45Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, he's just not playing soccer.

• 1:01:47Andy Greenwald?

  What are your options?

• 1:01:49Chris Ryan?

  Um, we can wrap it up there. Thank you to Kaya for producing us. Thank you, CT, for the video. We will be back on Monday. We'll be talking severance, and we'll wrap up the agency that day.

• 1:01:58Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, just for people, I know some people have been following along. I've been keeping up. The, the season finale is the Sunday, and we'll, we'll chop it up. I've really been enjoying that show.

• 1:02:06Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, me too. Thanks, everybody, for listening.

• 1:02:48Speaker 00

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• 1:03:00Chris Ryan?

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