854 Dennis Rodman on Emotions, Individuality and Being Great

DRESS FOR HAPPINESS. People live their lives trying to find their purpose. They are looking for ways to express their true selves. But many are worried about judgment and the opinions of others. Do you deny your destiny? How can you get on the road to happiness and self-fulfillment? You have to ignore the noise. Be yourself no matter what people say. Take the time to discover what makes you happy. And once you find your happiness, work hard to keep it. Keep moving forward, step by step. When you look back, you’ll be amazed at what you accomplished. On today’s episode of The School of Greatness, I talk about finding yourself and living life to the fullest with Dennis Rodman. Dennis Rodman is a five-time NBA Champion, seven-time NBA Rebounding champion, two-time NBA All-star, and trailblazer for the LBGTQ community. He recently released a remarkable ESPN 30 for 30 Documentary about his life and career. Dennis is open about his highs and lows, including his rise from poverty and his struggles with alcoholism. Through it all, he is proud of his accomplishments and hopes that others will learn from his life journey. So get ready to learn how to live life to the fullest on Episode 854. Some Questions I Ask: Was it easy being vulnerable in the NBA? (09:30) How did you stay out all night and still have the energy for practice? (18:45) What makes you proud? (30:50) Who was the best player you played with or against in the NBA? (29:55) Who was the first person in your life that you respected and admired? (33:05) What is the biggest lesson you learned in North Korea? (45:25) When it comes to your mother, what makes you proud? (01:00:50) In this episode you will learn: How he lives with enthusiasm (11:14) How he opened the door for the Gay community (11:20) Why he always does something that makes him happy (14:30) How Dennis feels he is never too old to ask for help (54:17) Plus much more... If you enjoyed this episode, check out the video, show notes, and more at http://www.lewishowes.com/854 and follow at instagram.com/lewishowes. Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 854 with five-time NBA champion Dennis Rodman. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:32Lewis Howes?

  Grace Jones said, "I believe in individuality, that everybody is special and it's up to them to find that quality and let it live." I am so pumped about this interview because I just watched a documentary, a 30 for 30 documentary on ESPN titled Dennis Rodman, For Better or Worse. And it was one of the best documentaries I've ever seen on a person's life. It was riveting. It gripped me from the beginning to the end. There was so much dynamics in it. And I highly recommend you check this documentary out. It's available for streaming on ESPN.com right now.

• 1:10Lewis Howes?

  And it reveals the crazy life of Dennis Rodman. And if you were around in the 90s, when Dennis Rodman was one of the biggest things in the world, you remember how fascinating his life and interesting and dynamic his life was. And Dennis Rodman is one of the greatest rebounders ever to play professional basketball. During his time in the NBA, he played for the Detroit Pistons, San Antonio Spurs, Chicago Bulls, Los Angeles Lakers, and the Dallas Mavericks. And he's a dedicated analyst of the game and a tenacious defender. He led the NBA in rebounding for four consecutive years and helped lead his teams to five NBA championships.

• 1:55Lewis Howes?

  However, his career went on, Rodman drew even more attention to his off-court antics. And again, he was one of the most fascinating humans on the planet back in the 90s when all this was going down. He had so much media coverage, it was crazy. And again, he's got this new documentary that shares his journey and reveals the struggles of one of the most talented and enigmatic stars in the game's history. And in this interview, we talk about how he was able to play so consistently despite all of the emotional stress he was under. He talks about his childhood, how stressful his entire childhood was, really until he went away around 20 years old and found a family that he found like he belonged

• 2:37Lewis Howes?

  in. We talk about how showing his emotions was empowering for him as a man and an individual. He often cried publicly and in the media, and he was showing his emotions as a man far early before it was acceptable and seen as okay. We talk about the methods he used to become one of the greatest rebounders of all time and how he visualized this every day. The greatest lesson he learned from his absent father, the power he has found in putting his ego aside and asking for help when he needs it. That and so much more in this riveting interview. I'm so excited for you to listen to this. Make sure to watch the full video over on YouTube as well because, and he really opens up in an emotional way

• 3:22Lewis Howes?

  at different points, especially towards the end. So make sure to stick around to the end to hear everything about how dynamic this individual is. Share it with one friend today. Text a friend lewishouse.com/854 or just copy and paste the link on your podcast app where you're listening to this and text one friend. Inspire someone today with this message by sending them a message and asking them what they think about this interview. Tag Dennis Rodman over on your Instagram stories while you're listening and at Lewis Howes as well, so we can both stay connected to you and hear what you're thinking about during this episode. All right, guys, I'm excited about this. Without further ado, let's

• 4:04Lewis Howes?

  dive into this episode with the one and only, the iconic Dennis Rodman.

• 4:13Lewis Howes?

  Welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness Podcast. Very excited we've got the legendary Dennis Rodman in the house. My man, thank you for being here, I appreciate it sir.

• 4:20Speaker 01

  Cool man.

• 4:21Lewis Howes?

  Very excited you're here. Just watched the 30 for 30, it's unbelievable. It's so inspiring what you've created with your life, with all the challenges you had to overcome, so congratulations on everything.

• 4:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was fun.

• 4:33Lewis Howes?

  It was fun?

• 4:34Speaker 01

  Long but fun.

• 4:36Lewis Howes?

  It was long?

• 4:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:38Lewis Howes?

  How long did it take to do the whole documentary?

• 4:39Speaker 01

  Well, it took, we, oh, they got 15 hours.

• 4:43Lewis Howes?

  15 hours, one day of doing the whole?

• 4:45Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no, no. It was like five hours one day.

• 4:48Lewis Howes?

  Got you, got you.

• 4:49Speaker 01

  Five hours next day, like that. But it's it over five hours to just sit there and talk about, oh my god dude, I'm brain dead, I'm like, you know, it's like when you're driving, get concrete drunk. That's what I got, I'm like, oh my god, tunnel vision, like, ugh.

• 5:04Lewis Howes?

  It's probably, it's probably the best 30 for 30 I've seen, and I've seen a lot of them, so.

• 5:07Speaker 01

  I've seen a lot too, I think this is more, I think this is more aimed for the new generation.

• 5:12Lewis Howes?

  It's amazing, and the music, the storytelling, you know, it's just so dramatic and it just pulls you in.

• 5:19Speaker 01

  Pulls you right in.

• 5:20Lewis Howes?

  It pulls you in to your life and everything that you've overcome, because you've overcome so much. It's crazy, man. It's so inspiring, so, congrats.

• 5:28Speaker 01

  I think, I think it relates to a lot of people in context for us, like, living in that, that generation, for us, the 60s to 70s, and going through this, this poverty years where, I think, you know, like guys like Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, two years earlier, and the people that was in that genre, you know, like 60s to the 70s, early 80s, living like that, I think they get a, they probably get a good grip of what was going on, you know, within the confines of, of the situation, but I think the youth of the day couldn't really grasp that unless they actually see it. So basically, this, this 30 for 30 is gonna really put them in the mix. Of how the guys like me, they worked our ass up to get to this point.

• 6:09Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 6:10Speaker 01

  And they don't realize that it wasn't a bed of roses at all to try to get to get to this point, you know? There've been a lot of highs and a lot of damn lows.

• 6:19Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 6:20Speaker 01

  And also, they think it's gonna, they think it'll hit a lot of kids hard, a lot of athletes hard.

• 6:24Lewis Howes?

  It's amazing. I think it's like, it's almost like a five years of social media in a, in one hour and a half movie. That's kind of like, if social media was around when you were there, this was like everything, the highlight reels.

• 6:38Speaker 01

  If I keep, I keep telling all my people, I said, Dennis, what would you have done if social media, Instagram and all these other outlets was out, out back in, in the, in the nineties? I said, well, I'd be a billionaire.

• 6:48Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 6:49Speaker 01

  I'd be, I'd be a billionaire.

• 6:50Lewis Howes?

  You would be.

• 6:51Speaker 01

  Quick, quick, everything, everything, you know, so thank God and damn it.

• 6:57Lewis Howes?

  But maybe you would have blown all the money at the same time, so.

• 6:59Speaker 01

  Oh, hey, you probably right about that shit, but I was going.

• 7:03Lewis Howes?

  Do you think you were, um, you were ready for that type of fame and that type of, because it was crazy. I mean, everywhere, you were like the biggest icon in the nineties, you know, it was, it was massive.

• 7:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was, I think, um, I made a joke about me and Michael Jordan, that I was more popular than he was for three years.

• 7:20Lewis Howes?

  I bet.

• 7:21Speaker 01

  On the, on the same team.

• 7:22Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 7:23Speaker 01

  A team that he built, but, and I said, I'm not trying to be like, have the big head, but it was true, the fact that I went there, that I was doing things that people in sports wasn't doing at the time. And I was creating a brand, but I, me knowing it was a fucking brand.

• 7:37Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Now people are trying to like manufacture it based on what you did.

• 7:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, pretty much. I was just doing it for fun. You know, I was trying to make money and nothing like that. I think that, you know, once you get in that situation, when you have your head screwed in a certain direction and then all of a sudden you forgot, oh damn, I forgot this part, you know? And you're just going at ninety miles an hour and you really don't pay attention about the money and, uh, and pretty much the fame and just going, just going with the flow. That was me back then.

• 8:07Lewis Howes?

  We have something in common. You, you are Dennis Rodman, but I've been calling myself for seven years, the Dennis Rodman of Olympic handball. I'm on the USA national handball team and I'm kind of like the bruiser of the team. You know, I don't score all the points, but I've been calling myself that for seven years. So we have something in common. You're the OG though.

• 8:26Speaker 01

  OG there.

• 8:27Lewis Howes?

  You're the OG.

• 8:28Speaker 01

  Head ball, really.

• 8:30Lewis Howes?

  Handball, handball. Do you know you, Olympic handball? It's kind of like water polo, but in a basketball court with no water. If you can visualize that.

• 8:38Speaker 01

  Well, handball is more like you, you hit the ball with your hand.

• 8:41Lewis Howes?

  There's two sports. Handball where you hit one against the wall.

• 8:44Speaker 01

  I used to play that at school back in the day, you know, it wasn't prison. It wasn't, it wasn't that special school.

• 8:50Lewis Howes?

  Right, right, right.

• 8:51Speaker 01

  Nobody do that. Hit the old day dough. That was the school. So without, that kind of handball like that with a club.

• 8:56Lewis Howes?

  Different handballs. This is like, imagine, um, water polo with no water or, um, soccer with your hands. It's on a big basketball court. It's played all over Europe professionally. It's an amateur sport here. That's why I play the sport on the USA team, because there's not many people that play it. And it's an Olympic sport, so it's, it's very physical. It's very fast. It's kind of like basketball and football, but you're throwing a ball into a goal past a goalie. So defense is very important and I'm kind of like the bruiser that is just trying to cause a ruckus on the court every game. That's how I stay on the team by being that role.

• 9:35Speaker 01

  Being that role, right.

• 9:36Lewis Howes?

  I kind of play your role.

• 9:37Speaker 01

  My role, right?

• 9:38Lewis Howes?

  And, uh, because I don't score a lot.

• 9:39Speaker 01

  It's like playing volleyball with your foot.

• 9:42Lewis Howes?

  It's like.

• 9:43Speaker 01

  It's on the track, right? So you see that game, right?

• 9:46Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 9:47Speaker 01

  They kick with their feet volleyball, right?

• 9:48Lewis Howes?

  It's crazy, but those guys are doing like backflips. It's something like that, yes.

• 9:52Speaker 01

  But anyway.

• 9:53Lewis Howes?

  So anyways, we have something in common there. But what I really admire about you is that you were consistent in your ability to be great, even through the different emotional challenges you were going through. Because I can only imagine the amount of emotional stress you went through. Questioning things, questioning identity or questioning, who are my real friends? But to be able to play at such a high level for so many years.

• 10:16Speaker 01

  It's impressive. That was tough.

• 10:19Lewis Howes?

  How did you, how did you do it with the emotional stress that you were facing?

• 10:22Speaker 01

  I don't know, really. You know, today, it'd be easy today because you have so many distractions. You have so many ways to get out there and just free your mind, a lot of cool things to reboot and refresh yourself. Back then, it was more like you had to be full throttle, no matter what. When I say that, it's like you had to have some type of aura about yourself to do certain things. Michael had Michael, Michael was doing, you know, Nike commercials, doing this, shooting movies and stuff like that. He was doing all that. I was doing all that and more. I was doing that, going out at six in the morning to get on a plane, go try to fly and wrestle the next night. The next thing you know, go there, da, da, da. I was just doing all these things at once.

• 11:04Speaker 01

  And I think maybe once a month, I would have a breakdown, you know, in the locker room after a game. I would, my body would say, Dennis, go on and debrief yourself and stuff like that. So I just go fall on the ground, just let it all out in motion and just try to like, wow, how am I doing this? Burning both ends of the candle. And I used to do that all the time when I was running down town, you know? And it was just funny that the fact that people said, this is all, this is all fun, man, you should be happy, you should be this and that. But damn, it's a price to pay, you know, because you want to do so much in such a little time, you know?

• 11:47Speaker 01

  Sports is so short-lived in the days where it been, and athletes don't understand that. Yeah. You know, even though the money is good and stuff like that, but it's like, okay, what are you gonna do out the basketball? And I thought about that as I left Detroit, when I went to San Antonio, I said, I'm so bored of this game, I'm so bored of life. I need something to have a great, some type of outlet for me to try, try to enjoy my life out the basketball. So I went to San Antonio, I just started to do certain things outside the box that most athletes wouldn't dare to do. And I found a new, new, uh, new remedy to the fountain of you, you wanna call it, to reboot myself to enjoy life again.

• 12:28Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 12:28Speaker 01

  So, thanks for signing to me for that.

• 12:31Lewis Howes?

  That's good. That's great. One of the things that you did differently is you showed your emotions. You cried.

• 12:38Speaker 01

  No.

• 12:38Lewis Howes?

  You weren't, you weren't afraid to show that.

• 12:40Speaker 01

  No.

• 12:41Lewis Howes?

  And I think that's, that was pre like men showing their vulnerability.

• 12:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:46Lewis Howes?

  For twenty, thirty years, pre that now, men are coming out more and more.

• 12:50Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 12:50Lewis Howes?

  I wrote a book about being vulnerable as a man and the power of being vulnerable. But you were doing this long before. Did you get, did you get made fun of a lot during that when you were a pro athlete? And, and kind of showing this vulnerable side? Or did people embrace it behind the scenes?

• 13:05Speaker 01

  I think a lot of people thought there was something new. It was like more this, uh, it, it, I didn't think that I was such an individual that was so emotional at the time that he couldn't control his feelings about controlling how to be an adult, not to be a professional player, professional person in general. So I think they look at me as more like, wow, this guy's not afraid to do anything. And in all the same sense of the word, I didn't know what I was doing. I just, that was my passion to be emotional. I loved it. I loved what I was doing playing sports. I love making people happy. And I think that I brought out, as they say, you're not a real man unless you show emotion. And they used to say those quotes, but so say those things back in the day.

• 13:47Speaker 01

  And now you seem just like every man will point at her and cry about something.

• 13:52Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 13:52Speaker 01

  And not ashamed to do it. And I didn't, I didn't care if I cried or anything. I just thought that was the way you're supposed to live life.

• 13:58Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 13:58Speaker 01

  So, you know, you have emotion, you express emotion. But I think that I, I've crossed over a lot of barriers back in the nineties, eighties and nineties, and early two thousand, and still probably today. You know, I'm not afraid to show my feminine side as far as a man. I'm afraid to go to gay clubs. I'm not afraid to interact with the gay community. And they got really opened a lot of doors for the gay community as far as this, what's, what it's concerned. Now I understand men today are pretty much coming out and actually showing their, their livelihoods as far as if they're a man or they're homosexual or they're bisexual or something like that. They're actually coming out being free now. You know, and a lot of people thought I was gay back then when I was doing those, those, um...

• 14:42Speaker 01

  There was a photo shoot sitting doing all the drag queens and stuff like that and dressed them as a woman going to a lot of bars and that was content for sports. But even if I if I did come out and said I was gay back then, I think I probably been the first rich gay athlete.

• 15:01Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 15:03Speaker 01

  It could go in all different ways back then. I could have did a lot of stuff in different ways, but now no one ever called me homosexual, gay, like blatantly like that, but it's more like when I did ESPN cover and I dressed up in this drag attire. They looked at me and said, well, Dennis, you know, we can't do that. That's not appropriate.

• 15:26Speaker 01

  And it looked at me like, oh man, that's what I'm wearing. I'm not changing.

• 15:29Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 15:29Speaker 01

  So I sat there for like two hours. I said, I'm not changing with my birds and stuff. They talked to each other. I'm just sitting there. I'm sitting there. What do you guys think? And they were actually talking to me. It's like, what do you think? Oh, well, they're just memling.

• 15:40Lewis Howes?

  The birds were talking?

• 15:41Speaker 01

  They just talk to each other like this right here. So I'm just waiting till they give me an answer. Two hours later, I said, okay, Dennis, we're gonna shoot it. And I promise you, we're gonna put it on Sports Illustrated cover. We're gonna shoot it. And if you look in your Argos, Sports Illustrated, you see that cover when I'm just all the dead in the drag and and being so gayishness in the gay community. I'm like, oh, bondage and stuff like that. I was sexy with the short shorts and stuff like that. Got my bird I did and it was funny that they said, you know, this could work. And I think I crossed over that as far as in the community and especially in San Antonio and lo and behold, guess what? It was a bestselling magazine in the history of Sports Illustrated.

• 16:28Speaker 01

  So I did have three covers like that for Sports Illustrated, so.

• 16:31Lewis Howes?

  They should thank you.

• 16:32Speaker 01

  No, not really.

• 16:33Lewis Howes?

  They should pay you more.

• 16:34Speaker 01

  Pay me more, eh?

• 16:36Lewis Howes?

  It's funny. I live in the center of the, you know, the gay community here in L.A.

• 16:40Speaker 01

  You're right here.

• 16:41Lewis Howes?

  I'm in Boys Town, WeHo.

• 16:43Speaker 01

  I love it.

• 16:43Lewis Howes?

  For me, it's, uh, I've always felt comfortable, uh, you know, whenever I feel insecure about myself, I will just walk down the street and I'll feel good again because of the gay clubs. They're amazing. People are friendly. It's clean. People, it's like good food. I'm like, where else would you want to go? They keep the neighborhood clean, which is what I like too. So I don't mind at all. But back then, I remember when I was growing up as a kid. When I would just put my, I played basketball, football, track, everything. When I would just put my arm around another boy, you know, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, didn't matter. They would push me off and say, don't be gay, don't be a fag, don't be a little girl, like, don't touch me.

• 17:20Speaker 01

  Right.

• 17:20Lewis Howes?

  And I just wanted to show affection. I just wanted, you know, someone to like me as well, because I felt very alone, I felt very, um, made fun of. And it was never really accepted. Were you able to show any affection as like a brotherly hug with it, with it being accepted in college or in the pros?

• 17:40Speaker 01

  I, I would just saw it as Uber and just to be doing something cool, you know, and I, I just showed it a lot, you know, when I, I score a basket or if I made a touchdown or something like that, it's get nuts, you know, I was like, oh, yeah, I'm good, it's cool, it's cool, it's cool, it's like that, I'm happy. But, uh, it, it just, it just came naturally for me.

• 17:59Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Did you, did you get made fun of or you didn't?

• 18:01Speaker 01

  No, I didn't get, I didn't make fun at all, I didn't get, no, nobody really made any type of remarks to me at all, it was more like, when I first started doing it, it was in college, and people said, oh, that's just him, you know, and the form of like five hundred people, I think I'm doing like, two hundred thousand people, I'm just so happy when I score a basket or block a shot, I'm just, uh, just so, I'm getting inside. And then when I brought that emotion to Detroit, people embraced that.

• 18:26Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 18:27Speaker 01

  And they were seeing them come, come out and just be happy and just, just, just so, just so enthusiastic about just playing the game. Because most of the time you see most athletes that make a point or get a rebound or dive for a ball and it, it don't react to it. I do, I love it.

• 18:43Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 18:44Speaker 01

  You know, I'm doing something that makes me happy, I'm doing something that makes people happy. I'm doing something that, that contributes to make, you know, to win. And that's my whole thing about life, I, I wanna win, I wanna be successful, but I know the fact that in my journey, I said, my journey had a, had a, paid a, paid a price.

• 19:03Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 19:04Speaker 01

  That, a big price because I think what I, the negativity, it's just, it's gonna sound kinda f***ed up. Without the negativity, I wouldn't be here.

• 19:13Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 19:14Speaker 01

  I didn't become Dennis Rodman to be good, because I was good. It was all the other stuff than me, Dennis Rodman, who is today. And now, by me saying that, if I was good all the way through, I wouldn't, I wouldn't have left Detroit. I wouldn't be sitting here. I would be doing a lot of things.

• 19:35Lewis Howes?

  If you're good, if you're good all the way through.

• 19:37Speaker 01

  All the way through the journey. If I was this good, you know, just straight laced guy all the way through, I think I wouldn't be.

• 19:42Lewis Howes?

  Clean, not going out, doing, yeah.

• 19:43Speaker 01

  No, I think I wouldn't be here today talking to you or talking to anybody doing the same format, you know.

• 19:49Lewis Howes?

  Where would you be?

• 19:50Speaker 01

  I couldn't tell you that one. If you were saying that, where would you be when you was eighteen, nineteen, didn't have a career, didn't have anything to, to focus on to be something significant in life? I'd probably be dead in jail. Seriously, just like that. That's no, no chance I would be living today.

• 20:10Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 20:12Lewis Howes?

  What, what brought you the most joy throughout your time playing professional basketball? What were the moments where you felt the most fulfillment and joy? Cause you might have had fun, you might have been, looked like you're having fun during.

• 20:23Speaker 01

  I had, I had, I had fun. I know a lot about that. I had, I had fun. I think the most enjoyment is the fact that I've, I was able to be free through a lot of that process. Made up my mind, you know, to say, you know, Dennis, life is not that difficult. Life is not that hard. Even though the bumps and the roads had been bumpy a lot, but now you have opportunity to go in there and say, okay, great. We could do this. We could go this road. We can go and say, okay, I got three hours to do a job that I like to do. And be happy. Or I can make it all day adventure and be sad and, and just miserable the rest of my life. I said, okay, great. I'm gonna take that road. I'm gonna take the road where they pay me to do a lot of things.

• 21:05Speaker 01

  They pay me to, to, to make people happy, to do this and do that. And also I'm happy doing it. And I just put my life in, in that genre where, okay, great. I'm gonna do three hours. If I don't do three and a half, I subject that, I do that. I said, I got twenty one more hours to do.

• 21:23Lewis Howes?

  What can I do?

• 21:24Speaker 01

  So, so I look at like, what, what am I gonna do? I have fun. Okay, great. This is cool here. But oh man, I got all this time now. Stuff like this. So, I just looked at like that at the end of my career. I said, well, I had a hell of a road.

• 21:37Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. How did you, uh, I mean, in the documentary, it's amazing. People need to watch this.

• 21:43Speaker 01

  They really need to watch it too.

• 21:45Lewis Howes?

  It's unbelievable. When you, um.

• 21:48Lewis Howes?

  You know, it shows you just like going out till five, six AM every night and then having four hours of sleep, then going to practice and being a gazelle. I think someone said you just look like a gazelle. You're sprinting, you're passionate, you're happy, all these things.

• 22:00Speaker 01

  Right.

• 22:01Lewis Howes?

  How did you do that mentally? How did you focus right before practice to say, I'm gonna still dominate, I'm gonna be one of the best?

• 22:09Speaker 01

  I did this more like I'm a routine guy. When I first came into the league, I never worked out. I just go play basketball and go home and go to the, um, to the arcades and play like three, four hours, then go home, go to sleep. Go to the gym, okay, practice, go to arcade, go home, go to sleep. That was my routine. I never worked out. And then I think by my fourth year in the league, I started to work out. I started to take care of my body. I got to loving that every, every day. So I like for like fifteen years straight, I worked out every day. Pretty much everything, six days a week.

• 22:43Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 22:43Speaker 01

  Fifteen years, I stayed like between one eighty-five to one to two fifteen for like uh, until I was like forty-five, I'm like two forty now. So the routine thing got me, got me hooked up. The reason why I did so, I did so well in Chicago and San Antonio doing all the activities. Playing basketball, going out to four, five, six in the morning. You know, sleeping in the meetings and then wake up and go back.

• 23:12Lewis Howes?

  Sleep in the meetings?

• 23:13Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. I had to have so. I didn't, I didn't care. Somebody go to sleep that last night. Yep, that was me.

• 23:21Lewis Howes?

  Still didn't care, huh?

• 23:21Speaker 01

  I didn't care.

• 23:22Lewis Howes?

  As long as you deliver.

• 23:23Speaker 01

  I delivered. I'd perform, but I'd be in practice. I'd go downstairs, practice for like an hour. Work my ass off, practice, and then after practice, I'd stay there and study the game of basketball with my friends. And all the guys who left, we worked out. I have all my friends coming to help me with my game as far as I rebound and play defense. I used to have my friends, how I became a great rebounder, I used to have my friends spot around the court, uh, the free point line and ask them to shoot the ball. And I would turn around and I'd have someone to shoot it and I'd just turn around and watch the ball hit the rim. And I positioned myself and I, and I, where the ball is going. And I just had so the guy shoot it anywhere. I just turned around and I just watched the ball hit the rim.

• 24:07Speaker 01

  I did it every day, every day. I tried to play a trick on myself. Okay, great. I'm gonna blind for myself and do the same thing.

• 24:14Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 24:15Speaker 01

  Now, blind for myself, I just didn't know where the ball was going. I just heard the rim.

• 24:19Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 24:20Speaker 01

  You know, so I heard, okay, great. Bounce this way and boom, boom. Okay, great. So I tried to act to it. And my friends would say, yeah, you almost had it. You almost had the right direction. But that's how I became a great rebounder. I stuttered the ball. I followed the game. I followed the movement of the ball. And stuff like that. If you see on the tapes, I never really outjumped anybody.

• 24:39Lewis Howes?

  You just were in the right spot.

• 24:40Speaker 01

  I was right in the right spot.

• 24:41Lewis Howes?

  You just had the position.

• 24:42Speaker 01

  He has a position, so I just went, I did a lot of.

• 24:46Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, because other people were jumping high. You were kind of jumping and doing the splits and different crazy.

• 24:49Speaker 01

  All the crazy stuff, but down this level.

• 24:51Lewis Howes?

  You didn't have to jump high. You just were there.

• 24:52Speaker 01

  So I was just there.

• 24:53Lewis Howes?

  That's powerful. Timing is everything. Vision is everything. It seems like you have the right vision. Do you think you'd be, 2019, Robin, do you think you would be uh, able to stay in the NBA as long now with the same personality? Or do you think they would have kicked you off the teams quicker and said, okay, if you're not gonna show up on time, you're getting fined more? You can't sleep in meetings. We're not allowing this at this time and age, but.

• 25:18Speaker 01

  Well, at today's age, on today's game, I mean, you could do anything.

• 25:22Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 25:22Speaker 01

  Oh, I'm gonna take a week off. Thank you. I'm tired. I'm tired, so whatever. I'll be, I'll be back next week. So this is easy today. This is very easy.

• 25:31Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 25:32Speaker 01

  You're making forty million dollars and saying, my back hurt. I'm gonna take two weeks off. Okay, don't worry about it. I'm like, damn, what was that at back then? You take two weeks off and still get paid? And then go to Vegas, go to Tahiti, Fiji. Fiji, that's where you're going after this, right? Fiji. And you get paid for it. And then all of a sudden, you see the person that wanna take a vacation. Oh, where's he at? He's in Fiji. Look at it, guys. It's on Instagram. Look at that. He's on Fiji waving on a banana boat. He's over here with a fucking yacht. That's the day he comes back. Oh, you have a good time? Yep. I would love to be in today's world. Really? Oh, hell, yeah. Do you think you'd be able to compete with the same at the same level if it was?

• 26:13Speaker 01

  If I had the same athletic ability, had the same body, the same speed, the same jumping ability and stuff like that? Oh, hell, I'd be, I'd be a monster. Really? I'd be having like over twenty rebounds a game, playing like forty minutes a game. I would love it. Do you think because people are softer now in certain ways and with your intensity? I didn't really care if they're soft or hard. I just want to go out there and do me. Go play basketball, man. It's more like, I think I probably be, I think more famous just because you have this outlet. With social media. Oh, yeah. I think I'd be way flamboyant and still. Even more? Oh, yeah. Do you think you would have been more destructive then with this type of reach and opportunity for following and press?

• 26:56Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. I think I'd be a rock star, a rock star and a superstar in basketball. Because I think I probably would have followed a career and try to be a rock star. Yeah. And then imagine being a rock star and a basketball player. Do you think you would have been slept at all? Too much sex, right? Too much, too, too, too much. Too much sex, right, damn.

• 27:18Speaker 01

  She's loving it. So I'm just saying, I mean, just like, wow, you're really a rock star. You got your scene. You can do all these things. Then you go to basketball court, we get to see your legs and everything you do and what the hell, oh, my God, really? You got all the world right there in your hands, man. Yeah. But I think that, you know, for me, I think I would get burned out real quick. Yeah. Especially because there's so much going on and so much, you can't, you can't gravitate to anything anymore. So it's more like, I think I probably have four or five years in the league and. And then go into entertainment afterwards. Oh, man, quick, really quick. Seriously, I'd go there quick because if you look at it, I think the people that's, that is more branded is athletes and entertainers, music people, right? I mean, who, who don't want to live that life?

• 28:03Speaker 01

  Right, right. Especially young kids today. Yeah. And also they just had something on the TV today about.

• 28:12Speaker 01

  Legalize college football players, athletes, athletes to sell their names.

• 28:16Lewis Howes?

  Really for like merchandise and they did it today?

• 28:19Speaker 01

  They did today.

• 28:20Lewis Howes?

  Cause they've been talking about it for years.

• 28:21Speaker 01

  I said in California, nobody else here.

• 28:23Lewis Howes?

  It's legal now.

• 28:24Speaker 01

  But it.

• 28:24Lewis Howes?

  Or they're talking about making.

• 28:25Speaker 01

  Talking about doing it.

• 28:26Lewis Howes?

  That'd be powerful.

• 28:27Speaker 01

  Series are doing it. I think they'll have a vote tomorrow.

• 28:29Lewis Howes?

  That's huge.

• 28:30Speaker 01

  That's huge because I'm saying, well, let's see. I remember Reggie Bush, Nightliner, OJ Simpson, all those guys, UCLA, USC. And they weren't living in those condos for no reason, were they?

• 28:45Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 28:45Speaker 01

  Back in the day, driving those Bentleys and, you know, I don't know, Rolls Royces and stuff like that for no reason, huh?

• 28:52Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 28:52Speaker 01

  But, but now it'll be legalized. So I'm like, wow, what a great business move to the kids now. Now they can't.

• 29:01Speaker 01

  Now they can't now. So you're gonna make money now. It's okay. Great.

• 29:04Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 29:04Speaker 01

  And also.

• 29:05Lewis Howes?

  Who, which player did you learn from the most when you were playing either against them or with them? Who taught you the most about life, about the game, about?

• 29:17Speaker 01

  I think Detroit, the Pistons. They taught me how to actually be a part of something that was great, you know? I left Oklahoma. There was a great way to bond there. I think when I got to Detroit, I became, we became as one. Thirteen guys became as one for five straight years. And that really, I really liked that, you know? That they taught me a lot about living life, growing up as a man, growing up as a professional athlete. And I think that if I wasn't drafted by Detroit, if I was drafted by the Lakers, I'd be out the league quick.

• 29:50Lewis Howes?

  Quick.

• 29:50Speaker 01

  I would.

• 29:51Lewis Howes?

  What would, what would have happened if hypothetically everyone stayed together for another five years in Detroit? And.

• 29:58Speaker 01

  Well, no, no, no, no, it had to end because we was, they was getting older. I was, I was like twenty eight.

• 30:03Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure.

• 30:04Speaker 01

  And a lot of guys like thirty, thirty, three, three, thirty four, thirty five, and he was getting older. So basically I think it could have had another run, but.

• 30:13Speaker 01

  It's that time.

• 30:15Lewis Howes?

  But where would you be? Because that's when things started to shift quickly after that in San Antonio, you know?

• 30:21Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 30:21Lewis Howes?

  The identity shift and the bad boy image even more so, right? The personality came out even more.

• 30:26Speaker 01

  Right, yeah, San Antonio.

• 30:28Lewis Howes?

  Where do you think you would be if you had another five years of like? Family unit stability, those types of feelings?

• 30:36Speaker 01

  I don't think.

• 30:36Lewis Howes?

  Do you think you'd be here now?

• 30:37Speaker 01

  I don't think I'd be, I wouldn't be here.

• 30:39Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 30:40Speaker 01

  I would not be here at all. I mean, I'll be on the planet Earth.

• 30:43Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 30:43Speaker 01

  But I wouldn't be in this situation.

• 30:45Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 30:46Speaker 01

  I think the course of action, the fact that I would become really popular in Detroit, in the Midwest. I think when I went to San Antonio, I became more all around famous.

• 30:56Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 30:56Speaker 01

  You know, if you see a clip on Thirty for Thirty, you're gonna see it. I said, you know, I don't give a damn if you like me or hate me. I'm just, I'm just here to get solid. And I took my hat off and that's when things started to happen for me. You know, places in San Antonio, Bible bopping city of the kind of, of the United States. I mean, you gotta be good on your toes. So I went there and just, just totally rebelled, totally rebelled, but I wanted to win in the same, in the same process. And a lot of people get out of this, this, a lot of athletes and people professional will get out of this. The fact that when I left Detroit, my mindset as far as doing my job, never wavered. I went from Detroit to San Antonio to go there and average nineteen point two rebounds again.

• 31:39Speaker 01

  From another team that was averaging eighteen rebounds. I went down to San Antonio with another team in the West Coast, not the East, the West Coast. Nineteen point two, eighteen point nine, those two years. And from going from East Coast to West Coast, I went down, did my job in Detroit. Swore down to San Antonio, I did my job there, just waved my head because I wanted to win. Then after that didn't work out, I went, then I went back to the East Coast, Chicago. Went there and won three more rebound titles. I was doing my job all the way through this whole cycle. I didn't change at all. I just went to a certain different location, location, and just did my job. It wasn't even about the money.

• 32:22Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 32:23Speaker 01

  At all, it wasn't about the money. A lot of players would say, I want to go there for the money. No, I never did. I just want to go play and win, and that's what I did.

• 32:31Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Who was the best player you played against?

• 32:34Speaker 01

  Played against?

• 32:35Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Or with?

• 32:37Speaker 01

  With.

• 32:39Speaker 01

  Well, Michael's there, Scotty's there, James Worthy. You know, I was thinking if he would have, it was my style of play. You know, as far as like lean and speed and agility and stuff like that. Those guys, Worthy was probably the hardest because he was, I hated playing him because he come in the damn wing, I gotta go across here, across there, get picked one time.

• 33:00Lewis Howes?

  He wanted to stay down.

• 33:01Speaker 01

  I just wanted to stay low, stay out of lower and get up front, but he was just like, he was so difficult, he was just so difficult to guard, but Michael Jordan probably the hardest.

• 33:10Lewis Howes?

  What are you most proud of from your time in the league?

• 33:14Speaker 01

  I survived it.

• 33:15Lewis Howes?

  Survived it?

• 33:16Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. I survived it on and off the court. On and off the court. The hard part was just getting in and trying to fit in. The easy part is trying to come out alive, you know, on my own two feet. Because I was just running it hard, you know? I wasn't doing cocaine or, you know, any other substances, you know? I got into alcohol, this kind of rave. They can take control of me, I think that was more of a motivation for me to try to fight both of those, those sides of me.

• 33:47Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 33:48Speaker 01

  If that was anything that had to disrupt me from basketball and cut my career short at the age of thirty seven, I think that, I think the lifestyle off the court did that. There was no stopping me because I liked having a good time on and off the court. So, I was just surviving the NBA pretty much.

• 34:06Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. I'm curious, who was the most influential person for you growing up?

• 34:11Speaker 01

  To this day?

• 34:13Lewis Howes?

  From like the time you were, you know, a kid until twenty, before you went to, to college basketball, who was most influential individual in your life growing up?

• 34:27Speaker 01

  I don't know. Who?

• 34:29Lewis Howes?

  Was it a, was it a sibling, or was your mom at the time, was it a?

• 34:32Speaker 01

  No one.

• 34:33Lewis Howes?

  No one?

• 34:33Speaker 01

  No one.

• 34:34Lewis Howes?

  No one?

• 34:34Speaker 01

  I can't even think of anyone if I was.

• 34:38Lewis Howes?

  Before you left town?

• 34:42Lewis Howes?

  Was there a kid in the neighborhood? Was there older?

• 34:45Speaker 01

  No about it.

• 34:45Lewis Howes?

  No one?

• 34:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I pretty much was a follower. I didn't have any, any sense of direction.

• 34:50Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 34:51Speaker 01

  So, whatever I saw somebody did, I was a see monkey, do monkey guy. So, that was me.

• 34:56Lewis Howes?

  A do monkey guy? What does that, what does that mean?

• 34:58Speaker 01

  Uh, you see somebody, you do it. So, you see somebody do it, you gonna do it.

• 35:01Lewis Howes?

  You mimicked it.

• 35:02Speaker 01

  I mimicked it pretty much. So, if somebody goes to watch, and they think it's cool, oh great, I go over and do the same thing, I think it's cool, but I, I don't wanna get caught. So, it's okay, wait, better not fuck me up, right? I don't wanna get in the car, so he did, and I thought it was cool. So, that was me back then. I didn't have any, uh, anyone to look up to.

• 35:20Lewis Howes?

  Who was the first influential person in your life that you really respected and admired?

• 35:26Speaker 01

  I think it was like two people. Well, not really. I think one person in, in particular, I think when I went to Oklahoma, and lived with that family, James Rich.

• 35:34Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. That the, the father of the?

• 35:37Speaker 01

  The father of the white family in Bochita, Oklahoma. Population six hundred and two, one stoplight.

• 35:43Lewis Howes?

  So, he was, he was one of the most influential people for you?

• 35:46Speaker 01

  Oh man, he was, he was right there, man. He literally did, you know, told me a kid with, with his hair cut off.

• 35:52Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 35:52Speaker 01

  How about you going from a project, living in a, a racial tension town, it was like sixteen, seventeen thousand people, didn't go on that blind, didn't know, understand what's going on in that town. And you're black, and you go into a university that's small, like twenty thousand people, go into a dorm, and then you walk out the dorm, you walk down to the, to the gym, and all you hear is, hey, n***a, hey, black person gonna go back home. They say, what are you doing over here? Da-da-da, da-da-da. I mean, I, I hear it every day. So, and I'm like, I'm like, just thought it was like, that was common.

• 36:30Speaker 01

  I didn't think it was like, oh, I hate that, I hate that, I hate that person. I thought it was just common, 'cause I'm just so used to seeing and hearing it, you know, in the neighborhood, and stuff like that. So, I was like, alright, great, that's cool, da-da-da. But, um... Uh, when I met that family, I mean, it was, it was, it was cool. Yeah, I didn't like it in the beginning because I didn't know how to behave, you know, I'm being the custom, you know, being just going out wild with short shorts on, no shoes and running around like a, you know, with a kid haircut off and then have no structure, but that family taught me a lot about structure.

• 37:04Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 37:05Speaker 01

  And stuff like that. I tried to cut the long story short, the more, the more I was so involved with that family, the more I, I distanced my real family from me.

• 37:13Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 37:14Speaker 01

  And I think that was a good thing for me. If I didn't distance myself from my real family, I'd be in trouble for being deluged.

• 37:20Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 37:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:21Lewis Howes?

  What was it that your own family wasn't giving you that you felt like you really wanted or needed?

• 37:26Speaker 01

  I mean, he, he knows that. I think I'm about to work on notice today, today. I said that. I think it was just more love and more understanding. I didn't get that. I didn't get none of that, no.

• 37:35Lewis Howes?

  Your sister or your, your mom, because your dad was gone.

• 37:38Speaker 01

  Was gone. Nobody, nobody taught me that. You know, you never saw in the neighborhood, you know, all the kids, they're running, running amok.

• 37:44Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 37:44Speaker 01

  And you, you never saw anyone getting loved or hugged or getting beaten and then whatever you hear with what you mimic.

• 37:52Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 37:53Speaker 01

  So I think James Wiss is like the most important person at that time for me.

• 37:56Lewis Howes?

  What did he provide for you besides structure? Did he give you hugs and affection and love or acceptance and understanding or?

• 38:04Speaker 01

  Uh, he just more like he's treating me like one of his sons. He had three sons and he just put me right in the mix.

• 38:10Lewis Howes?

  On the table.

• 38:11Speaker 01

  Put him up.

• 38:12Lewis Howes?

  Put your shoes off here.

• 38:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:13Lewis Howes?

  A little bit on time, right?

• 38:15Speaker 01

  But it's funny, there's a, there's a cute story. You're gonna see it in, in the documentary. When I first went to this family's house and I like laughed at this, this is funny as hell. People will think it's funny. I think it's funny as hell. So, you know, when I first went to the house, everyone was like shocked to see that I was black, you know, coming into this, this, this country forum. So like, hey, Dennis, come on, sit over here. Come sit over here. I said, all right, great. And I'm just, don't know what to do because I never been in this setting before. Usually going like, you know, get a hornet's, hen's, a turkey like that, like that, you know, crackers and stuff. And I'm like, okay, great. I sit down at this table, had all this crystal and glasses and glass, I mean all different type of glass.

• 38:56Lewis Howes?

  Silverware.

• 38:57Speaker 01

  Silverware, I never seen that shit, right? I was like, alright, great. He said, would you sit right here beside me, little boy, you know, so. So I'm sitting there, then he looks at me, looks around the table and he gets up, he takes the glass from, from in front of me. He said, I'll be right back. So he goes over, goes to the cabinet and he goes up there, he jumped from the top of the counter. He goes to reach way up here and get this big ass, this big ass mug. He said, alright, great. So he comes and I said, why did you do that for? He said, what did you do that for? He said, oh, I figured that your lips are too big, you can, can swallow.

• 39:32Lewis Howes?

  No way.

• 39:32Speaker 01

  I said, what?

• 39:35Speaker 01

  He said, your lips are too big, I had to get this for you. I said, oh god, really?

• 39:41Speaker 01

  I thought it was funny as hell, okay, I know he didn't know any better, I feel more like.

• 39:45Lewis Howes?

  He's trying to be courteous or something.

• 39:46Speaker 01

  So, okay, alright, thank you, man. I'm like, wow.

• 39:50Lewis Howes?

  I can drink water out of any cup.

• 39:51Speaker 01

  Any cup, I can be so, too small, glass like basketball, so he got this big mug, I had to. So, uh, and we, so from that point on, to cut, we're trying to cut the story short, we got that much time. But me and that little kid, we really bonded.

• 40:08Lewis Howes?

  He was like thirteen, fourteen years old, right?

• 40:10Speaker 01

  No, he was like, I was twenty-two, he was like, I think he was thirteen, twelve, thirteen, but he was a skinny little kid. I really bonded to this kid and we, we got to know so well. Out of the twenty-two years I had in my life in, in Texas, I never bonded any like, anyone like this. And this little white little kid and stuff like that. And he didn't care what I looked like, what I said or this, that, he, he thought everything I did was cool. And I thought what he did was cool, I'm like, go playing his role, he's playing my role.

• 40:39Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 40:40Speaker 01

  So, and every night, we would sit there, go play basketball every night, to like, eleven, twelve at night. His mom used to come out and say, Dennis, you guys gotta go to bed. I said, alright, great, then we go to bed, I mean, that was going on for three years straight. But I think that right there really got me out of that, out of the, the, the negative part of my life, to try to do something positive in my life. And that just, that put me in the position I am today.

• 41:05Lewis Howes?

  Did you feel like a sense of peace for those three years sleeping there? Did it feel like you could finally relax and kind of just, ah, take a deep breath?

• 41:14Speaker 01

  Well, it was just more like, mm. And I felt good to just be in something that was very solid. Mm hmm. Very solid was cool to, you know, wake up in the morning. And like, oh wow, you get to eat good. Take a shower. Crack it. You get to do that. Obviously, you know, eat, drink water, you get to do this, what is. It was just felt good to just wake up and say, wow, you're gonna have a great day today. Wow, that's powerful. I appreciate all, everything and though, it was, for us like, I hated getting up at five thirty. Yeah. You know, where we gotta get up at five thirty for what?

• 41:47Speaker 01

  They say, well, I gotta go to practice in, in couple hours. You know, you gotta go out and feed the cows. You gotta go out there. Break the ice. You gotta go out there and, you know, lift hay and like, oh my god. I did that for three years straight, summer, winter and fall. I mean, all season, we did it every day for seven days a week. And I think that right there really made me appreciate the hard work that I put into and make people happy. So there was no money involved with that. Same thing at college and it just propelled me to the NBA. Yeah. What was the greatest lesson that, that father taught you? Oh, to be humble. Really? To be humble. Were you not humble? Humble and patient. Were you not humble or patient then? I didn't know what that was. I didn't know anything about humble and patient. I think that I was just living life

• 42:32Speaker 01

  through them, through, through their eyes and trying to figure out where the direction I'm gonna score on this for us college and what the direction I was gonna go after college. But I just watched them every day and see how they perform as for us a family. And the dad was more like, he was more the cruel one. The whole bunch, he'll come home, five thirty, and then he'd sit there, drink his little scotch and whatever, sat there on the porch. And then he always say to us, you know, what are your things? He always talked to me outside, me and Brian. And we sit there with a hand, we go, we go down to pond and, and fish, we catfish every day. And just sit there and talk most of the day. He just, and I got so used to that. It was so peaceful and just more like, I started thinking about the nigga,

• 43:12Speaker 01

  who's getting, who's dying today, who's getting stabbed tomorrow, who's getting whooped today, who's getting beat today. I'm like this, you heard that every day in the project. But for once, I went there and it's literally at peace, like I'm expecting people to beat on the walls, shoot someone or someone screaming. But there was more than so peaceful and, you know, it was like, wow. And I got so used to it, I didn't want, never want to go back.

• 43:37Lewis Howes?

  Wow. Do you still have a relationship with them today?

• 43:40Speaker 01

  Oh, well, yeah. Times have changed, but I think that they, I don't know, I haven't really contacted them in a couple of years, but my friends have contacted them. I think they're still doing better. They're doing better now.

• 43:52Lewis Howes?

  That's good. Yeah, yeah. At the end of the documentary, I'm still like five, 10 minutes to finish it, which I'm excited to do right after this. Cause I just got the link, that's why I came here. It gets to the part of Kim Jong-un, when you start connecting with him and the whole.

• 44:08Speaker 01

  They really want to go to that part in this documentary, which we don't show too much of that, that North Korea.

• 44:14Lewis Howes?

  And it's your agent's fault that it all started, right? He's responsible for all of this.

• 44:19Speaker 01

  Responsible. I think it was just more like, it was just handed to us. It was just handed to us and it was more like, you know, he got debriefed by his friend and, and he's like, oh, da, da, da, da. You know, he says it better than I do. You want him to tell you. Every time I say it, I get it off like that. Screwed up, so.

• 44:36Lewis Howes?

  Were they, were they bringing basketball players over there before? Or were you kind of like the first one to go, to be invited to go there?

• 44:43Speaker 01

  Well, I think Darren was telling me that, I think Muhammad Ali went there. Who else? Who else went there? Ric Flair went there. I think it was for a wrestling event and stuff like that, but I don't think they knew the magnitude then what was going on. I think they did the same thing I did. Just went over there, performed. And after that, I wasn't really worried about, you know, getting killed or being in prison, something like that. But, and when I went there, it's totally different. It was just a couple of years ago. It was just totally different because for, I think if.

• 45:15Speaker 01

  They had that situation back, I don't know, was it in the nineties? I think it was nineties or whatever. I think they had that situation back then. I think nobody would have went over there. It was going on when I went there a couple of years ago, people getting kidnapped and put in prison and beaten and whatever. Whatever they said was happening.

• 45:31Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 45:32Speaker 01

  But I was just forcing them up to just to get the opportunity just to go over there. And I didn't care. I just wanted to be safe. You know, if I'm safe, I don't care. I'll go.

• 45:41Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, so you're on phone, you're making an impact, you're getting paid, you're getting to go.

• 45:45Speaker 01

  I'm good to go.

• 45:46Lewis Howes?

  So when did you go originally? Two thousand thirteen?

• 45:48Speaker 01

  Two thousand thirteen.

• 45:49Lewis Howes?

  How many times have you been?

• 45:50Speaker 01

  A few times after that.

• 45:51Lewis Howes?

  A few times after that?

• 45:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, I guess it's a shame that Donald Trump won't let me go back.

• 45:56Lewis Howes?

  He won't let you go back? Why not?

• 45:58Speaker 01

  I guess the, he just closed the border for some reason.

• 46:01Lewis Howes?

  Oh, wow. For any Americans to go or?

• 46:04Speaker 01

  Except for anybody, for anyone to go.

• 46:07Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 46:07Speaker 01

  I'm, if he let me go, they want me to come back.

• 46:11Lewis Howes?

  Really? Are you in contact with him or?

• 46:13Speaker 01

  Well, you can't contact him direct. I think, you know, though, I think assistant to them, I think he's, he's pretty much in contact with them, with the right people, the right contacts. So we're not directly in contact, but I, I think they pretty much know how to get in contact with me, him or though, the three people that they need to contact. So, you know, if they had to sit there and find Dennis Rodman, I think they can find Dennis Rodman.

• 46:37Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure.

• 46:39Speaker 01

  I'm not hiding nowhere, so.

• 46:40Lewis Howes?

  What's the, I mean, he's a very controversial individual. What's the, what's the, the lesson you learned from him? With your time just in his presence, with your time connecting and talking through translators and, what's the, what's the thing that, the biggest lesson you learned from him?

• 46:58Speaker 01

  I think the biggest lesson I learned from him was the fact that he really don't want war. He don't want it. I think he's just under pressure because I think his family has left this regime to, to carry out what his father left. But what I told him, it's not like that. He really wants to go into the twenty first century. He don't want to get the power up to, to anyone in the world. I think he wants to keep it where he's in, in hands of that. But he can give a little more, you know, release to certain dangers to certain people, but he, who he trusts. But I think he still wants to have the empowerment of his own country.

• 47:34Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 47:35Speaker 01

  I don't see anything wrong with that. I mean, but the good thing, the best thing, I, I can see the fact that he's actually talking. Talking to Donald Trump or whatever he say, I think it's it's good the fact that he's out being actually being a human being. When you saw him in Beijing, once I went to Beijing, Singapore, right?

• 47:52Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 47:53Speaker 01

  The last time I went, that last year, two years ago. Did you see him go out on the water, walking in the streets and stuff? Did you see him doing selfies with himself?

• 48:03Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 48:03Speaker 01

  You never see him do that, huh?

• 48:04Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 48:05Speaker 01

  None of the presidents do that. They took pictures of himself smiling and having a good time with the people. You never saw him do that. I mean, whoever's in in the apartment over there, but he wants to do stuff like that. And if you see North Korea's how it's grown in the 21st century, and people have seen it, and all you see is all the negativity. But you don't see all the new stuff he's done.

• 48:25Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 48:26Speaker 01

  For the people.

• 48:26Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 48:27Speaker 01

  And I think that when he opens the door for for someone to go back over and it's going, I'm gonna be right there, knocking on the door. You know, I'm not gonna have this done.

• 48:38Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 48:40Speaker 01

  I'll be right there and say, you know what? And the next time I do go, this is gonna be for a real reason.

• 48:47Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 48:47Speaker 01

  A real reason. I mean, a real reason why I'm really going over there. To actually interact with him and trying to write a little documentary about me and him and a visit over there, just me and him. Me and him and the and the trying to see if I can get the reason why we can't really get along.

• 49:05Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 49:06Speaker 01

  I don't know the reason why. I don't really look up to the history of North Korea and America. I don't really wanna go that in depth because, you know, things change every day now. So I would love to get that that part of his, that hard part of information from him just to sit there just me and this chit chat like this.

• 49:22Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 49:22Speaker 01

  You know, and put it in in good contents for the world to see.

• 49:25Lewis Howes?

  That'd be powerful.

• 49:26Speaker 01

  What in his mind, not his father, his grandfather, in his mind.

• 49:29Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 49:30Speaker 01

  So people can get a good light on him, like they did with everybody else around them, great leaders around the world. So if I can do that, I think that's gonna change a lot for for anyone.

• 49:39Lewis Howes?

  That'd be powerful.

• 49:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:40Lewis Howes?

  Where do you think you would be right now if you had a a loving father and a loving mother for your childhood?

• 49:47Speaker 01

  I wanna be I wanna be in sports.

• 49:49Lewis Howes?

  You wouldn't have gone to sports?

• 49:50Speaker 01

  I'd probably be like. Playing piano for the church. Really? Singing somewhere.

• 49:58Speaker 01

  I be playing piano for the church, having four or five kids. I'm just, seriously. You're buried still, yeah. I'm buried still, you know. That's what I be doing right now. Yeah. You know, I wouldn't be in sports at all, at all. Because I think, like I said, a lot of negative things that came in my life have driven me to this point. Right. And I look at that whole scenario, man. I said, why if I had a father back then and knowing the fact I wasn't playing sports and knowing the fact that I would probably get beaten every day because I'm not doing anything. Oh, I probably have to do the chores, I probably do this. So there'd probably be some type of structure in, in some type of environment. But it was more like, I said, thank God I didn't have a father.

• 50:42Speaker 01

  Thank God I grew up like that. Thank God that someone had the, the, the hope and the desire for me to not, not to make that major mistake to go and just create this whole image about negativity, about, oh, you're gonna kill somebody, you're gonna do drugs. Or you're gonna rape this woman, or you do this. Thank God someone had a hand on my shoulder. And whenever I did screw up, there was someone came and pulled me back. Come here. Come here. You know, something, something's good, someone's waiting for you. And every time I went back to the other direction and back to the negative side of it, somebody kept pulling me back over and over. I don't know what it is what happened because I had a lot of opportunities to go over and say, okay, great. You know, I can shoot you, I can do this and this. I never did. Yeah.

• 51:25Speaker 01

  And then when I did anything bad, I tried to redeem myself by, okay, great. I'm gonna go steal fifty watches that's worth about sixty, seventy grand. But I'm gonna do the, probably the right thing to do. I'm gonna go to my school and pass them away for free. Not make money, yeah, yeah. I also, to my dumb fucking criminal. The dumb criminal, yeah. Here's a Rolex, don't worry about it. Just be my friend. Yeah. Don't worry about it, here you go, guys, take him. And so, that's circumstance right there. Those are things I was doing. I wasn't doing anything to make, satisfy me. I was just trying to be, just people to like me. Yeah. You know, I was an outcast looking in. I was like, here, I'm gonna go steal a car, so you like to drive it for me? You know, you don't mind that, right? Sure, sure. You know, here's the doorway, come on, I'm gonna steal my mother's purse. Thank you, you like me now? Right.

• 52:10Speaker 01

  Stuff like that. It, it's just like, you know, those things pretty much propelled me to understand now today's life. And I look back all the time, all these little things that could have went wrong.

• 52:23Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, one thing.

• 52:24Speaker 01

  One thing, it went wrong, but it didn't go wrong enough.

• 52:28Lewis Howes?

  Enough.

• 52:28Speaker 01

  Enough.

• 52:29Lewis Howes?

  I can relate so much.

• 52:30Speaker 01

  That's right, they'd go too far where I couldn't come back. And even in NBA life, and even in the celebrity life, it's the same thing. I would go so fucking far, so far.

• 52:43Lewis Howes?

  But not to a line.

• 52:44Speaker 01

  Not the whole thing, oh my god, then, okay, great, let me try it again. I do it again, god damn it, I can go a little higher. Then all of a sudden, it gets to that crisis moment, oh then, okay, da da da da. And I think the crisis moment for me, I've been an adult, I'm in fifty-eight. And a lot of people used to have best in Vegas, they used to have like a chart for me in Vegas. Oh, so Dennis' birthday is today, so is he gonna live to fifty-four, fifty-five? It was a really true story, they used to have.

• 53:15Lewis Howes?

  No way.

• 53:16Speaker 01

  For me, living a certain year. And for me, I think it was kind of like, I think I'm gonna die next year, because the way I live.

• 53:23Lewis Howes?

  You would think this to yourself?

• 53:24Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 53:25Lewis Howes?

  You would think, I think I'm gonna die next year?

• 53:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:27Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 53:28Speaker 01

  And there was no control of me for a moment there. You know, I would go and just be on these bands, man, just go drink for like four or five days straight. And it was like, I was on that seductive, instructed mode, it's like, I don't care, whatever, man. I'm Dennis Rodman, I'm famous. Wow. I was doing it every day, man, then shit.

• 53:49Lewis Howes?

  Do you feel more balanced now, like you have more? Do you feel like you're gonna die every year still, or do you feel like you're in a good place right now?

• 53:57Speaker 01

  No, you know, those thoughts have crossed my mind once in a blue moon, not like every other day. Like I said, I got good people that surround me, you know. He's trying to, he's walked a straight narrow road for eleven, twelve years now. He's doing a great job, got a new book out there, Anywhere High, you know. He's only what, five foot seven Jew right there, Jewish boy right here.

• 54:15Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 54:16Speaker 01

  You know, but he's changed a lot of people's lives in the world. That's Darren Prince, you don't see his ass right there, guys, he's right there. You know, I think you know him around the world, got a lot of cool clients, you know, stuff like that. But he is actually evolutionizing the opus epidemic. If you guys can check him out, guys, check him out, Darren Prince, live, somewhere in your city, seriously. But he's been a very integral part of my life over the last twenty-two years, twenty-three years, so.

• 54:41Lewis Howes?

  How has he helped you improve and grow?

• 54:43Speaker 01

  And overcome a lot of the negative thoughts you've had about yourself for the addictive uh things you've gone through. Well, he's he's tried to challenge me sometimes, trying to be up firm and tough. He's only fifty nine, forty forty, forty nine or fifty right now, and I'm fifty eight. He's trying to tell me, oh, you da da da da. I'll go, oh, man, come on, do I need this today? And sometimes I kind of like have to put my ego aside and say, oh, man, I actually do need this because things are not going too damn well. So I do bow down and listen. Hmm. You know, you know, like I said, you're never too old to need help. You're never never too old to ask for help. I said that to myself many, many days, many, many years.

• 55:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, or or to learn something new. Something new all the time, you know, you think you're smart, but everyone needs help. Yeah. I know, so I think he's been there for most of the the tough times, the sad times mostly because, you know, cause you know, I get a little sometimes lonely to myself because and I feel like that I've done so much, I don't deserve anything else. Really? So he's actually been, you know, trying to give me some uplifting spirits and hope to just keep moving forward. So, you know, he's good at that. You read the book, he's saying that in the book a lot about always don't doubt the word hope and fate. Wow. It carries a long way. Yeah, why do you feel like you don't deserve anything more? Uh, it's been like that all my life. Yeah.

• 56:12Speaker 01

  Like that all my life, man. And people, like I said, I can't say enough about about my wife sitting right here. But this this this documentary is going to change a lot of perfect, a lot of people's perspective about how they conduct some things in their lives, especially kids. Yeah. You know, there was one piece there, one piece they keep showing all day and yesterday about me and my mother. My mother said, you know, I never tried to run Dennis, you know, I just want just to just. I never tried to what? Run Dennis, you know, try to run his life and not try to control him, but, you know, she was saying in a soft voice like, I just want a piece of him. I just want him to know that I love him and stuff like that.

• 56:54Speaker 01

  And then they they click over to me and I'm just going nuts about, oh, you know, where was you when I da da da, when I need you, when I when I make, when I became famous, when I was broke, you didn't want me, you threw me out the house. This is what I'm saying on TV, too. Yeah. You know, so like that, and people go look at it and say, wait a minute. I never heard an athlete, a person, talk about their mother like that. And I, on the, on the, on the, on the thirty, thirty, I don't relinquish, I keep going. Yeah. And that's the frustration coming out of me. And I'm retired this time, and I still haven't, haven't hashed out this whole bad image about me and her, about the days that she kicked me out the house. And you're gonna see it here.

• 57:37Speaker 01

  And people, as, as sports, as sports figures, as sports entertaining people, go realize, and go see the fact that I don't hold back. Yeah. And a lot of people wanna hold back their father, their mother, and try to say the most perfect thing about their family. I don't hold back. I just say it straight up. I don't say I hate you, but I think I just resent it. You still resent her? Oh, I don't resent her now. I think that I've overcame that. I think the fact now I'm, have prepared myself to try to sit there and reach for the higher level of love with her. Yeah. But I just gotta put one foot in front of the other and try to reach that higher level and then say, hey, I apologize. I haven't came to that point yet, but I'm trying to get there. You haven't apologized to her? Right. What do you wanna apologize to her for? I was a bad, I was a bad son. Hmm.

• 58:23Speaker 01

  A bad, you know, individual to you. But I think, I'm trying to convince myself that if I did that to her, for me, to her, I think I'm looking at her to say the same thing to me. Has she ever apologized? I don't think she didn't know how.

• 58:39Speaker 01

  I don't think, I don't know how to apologize to her. I think that's the reason why we came like that. Wow. What do you think would happen if you guys came together face to face and both apologized to each other?

• 58:50Speaker 01

  Uh, probably me and she'd probably be her. So she'd probably like, you know, she'd probably just, just be subdued and, and I'll be like, look at her and stuff like that. No wonder fact that my eyes are saying more than words and my body can't react to what my eyes are feeling. So basically, my eyes are loving her and holding her, but my, my, oh, and my body are numb. Hmm. So that's how I would do it like that because I never reached over and hugged her like that. I never reached over and cried to her. I don't know how. So I think everything I'm visualizing and seeing to her and thinking about her is all right there, but she don't know it. When I can't physically be able to sit there and express it. And that's what the only thing that's holding me back. But doing that for her. Everything else is intact.

• 59:35Lewis Howes?

  How long you been thinking about doing that for?

• 59:37Speaker 01

  Long time.

• 59:38Lewis Howes?

  Decades?

• 59:39Speaker 01

  Over ten years.

• 59:40Lewis Howes?

  Ten years. What will it take for you to make it happen?

• 59:44Speaker 01

  Me? I put that one foot in front of the other. That's it. It's all about me. I'm not selfish, I'm there. I just can't, I don't know why this won't. I just don't know why I can't turn that corner and just tell her.

• 59:58Lewis Howes?

  How often do you see her?

• 1:00:01Speaker 01

  Not often, no.

• 1:00:02Lewis Howes?

  Once a year, once every couple of years?

• 1:00:04Speaker 01

  It'd go like five, six years at a time.

• 1:00:06Lewis Howes?

  So you haven't seen her in five years?

• 1:00:08Speaker 01

  I saw her last year.

• 1:00:09Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:10Speaker 01

  Like she saw my kiss for the first time last year. I think it's seventeen, eighteen.

• 1:00:16Lewis Howes?

  What do you think it would do for your heart to have that type of healing and peace?

• 1:00:20Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 1:00:21Lewis Howes?

  If you said, "I'm sorry, mom," and you actually, whether she said, "I'm sorry" or not, but if she said it back, how do you think that would help your heart heal?

• 1:00:30Speaker 01

  I don't know, I don't think, I don't, I think I wouldn't feel it.

• 1:00:32Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 1:00:33Speaker 01

  Because I've been, I've been living this life without having the love and attention for fifty years. I don't know how I can, how I take that.

• 1:00:42Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:43Speaker 01

  You know, I think that it probably take time for me to be around her a lot to understand the reason why she did what she did, and the reason why things I did. I think we need to hash that out. And I think a lot of people, like I said, I've been saying this, and on the documentary, you don't see what I'm talking about. It's not that very, it's not that, not that easy to, you know, to people.

• 1:01:02Lewis Howes?

  Stubborn people that are...

• 1:01:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, stubborn people, but I'm not stubborn, I'm very, I'm very like, I'm very caring and very loving, but I just don't know how to show because I never knew how to and I never had a father and partially a mother, but, but I love her to death though. I mean, I, when I see on TV, I'm like, wow.

• 1:01:24Speaker 01

  And I just, I think I just want people's other opinions to feel, to show me how to feel towards her. Understand what I mean.

• 1:01:32Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 1:01:33Speaker 01

  And other people show me how to feel towards her, uh, even towards my kids, same, same, same junction.

• 1:01:39Lewis Howes?

  What are you most grateful for about your mom?

• 1:01:42Speaker 01

  She's persevered through a lot. She persevered through a lot. She was in a coma a couple of years ago. And she came out of it luckily. But I didn't know about uh, like six months into it, but I never even went to see her then. I think that was very selfish of me, but I just felt that it wasn't appropriate time for me to see her. I was just hoping that she came out of it, and luckily she did.

• 1:02:09Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:09Speaker 01

  And she came out, I saw her, she came out the coma and she came back full recovery and I went down to see her, brought my kids. So I thought that'll be something for her before me or her die. So she was in good shape, but she managed to come and see me.

• 1:02:24Lewis Howes?

  That's good.

• 1:02:24Speaker 01

  But uh, yeah, like I said, this, this documentary is gonna be historical for, for kids and for athletes. So I want people to prepare themselves to understand what I'm, what I'm trying to say. It's very powerful for people. Just really take it all in. And uh, so I go to memory about something, out of this documentary, people said, "Oh my God, that was awesome." I said, "Yep, you know, this is me. This is what it is."

• 1:02:48Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:48Speaker 01

  So.

• 1:02:49Lewis Howes?

  Do you feel like if you uh, you never got the chance to say what you really wanted to say and apologize to your mom, that you would regret it if she wasn't around to hear it in the future?

• 1:02:58Speaker 01

  I don't know. I, I, I believe that I, I would.

• 1:03:02Lewis Howes?

  You'd regret it?

• 1:03:04Speaker 01

  I think it would soak in. I think it would soak in. Like I said, I'm very honest.

• 1:03:09Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:10Speaker 01

  I'm thinking it would soak in. I think if the time, it was sinking for me, I think if I was about to die, then I would say, "I'm gonna have to sit there and look through my eyes why I didn't fulfill so many things I should have fulfilled." I think it would take that much for me to sit there and realize that. And I understand it by myself. And I say, "Well, I'm not selfish, but I think that's my mentality." If for that is concerned, but when I'm so loving to everybody else.

• 1:03:35Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah, like your mom.

• 1:03:37Speaker 01

  But, but my mother and my, my, and certain people, I just, but I'm so loving to everybody. You see, I'm always giving, giving, giving, giving, giving. But I don't realize that if I turn my, that way, that's the most important thing.

• 1:03:51Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 1:03:54Speaker 01

  I see it, but I just don't wanna reach out for it.

• 1:03:56Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:03:57Speaker 01

  But it's, like I said, it's coming. It's slowly coming.

• 1:04:01Lewis Howes?

  We gotta make it happen this year, Dennis. I want you to have it this year, man. You gotta commit to it this year, after this documentary's out.

• 1:04:06Speaker 01

  Documentary.

• 1:04:07Lewis Howes?

  Now's the time, man. Now's the time. Darren's gonna make it happen. He's gonna get a meeting between you guys.

• 1:04:13Speaker 01

  Right. To use all the minds over here.

• 1:04:15Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. Let's make it happen. Let's make it happen.

• 1:04:18Speaker 01

  So, yeah, so.

• 1:04:20Lewis Howes?

  I want you to have healing, man. I want you to have peace in your heart.

• 1:04:23Speaker 01

  But I can't sit down with that guy. I can't sit down with that guy at all. This guy, he make me fucking, he make me just, oh, God. So, I gotta sit down with somebody that's, you know, cool. You know, it's cool. Maybe get that slowly. He wants to go that fast, you know? So, you know, he did it fast. Eleven, twelve years going on right now, so, you know, he's still, he's still battling the addiction.

• 1:04:46Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:46Speaker 01

  But, uh, to touch on something else, I think a lot of people should understand that, yes, I was, um, I'm slugging thousands of questions before you ask me. Yes, I was alcoholic. I still am. I'm not ashamed of that to say that. Why not? You know, so, I always be alcoholic, but, uh, I think my presence and my actions shows a lot different these days. So, I hope people recognize that. But I, I do recognize that, that that's, that's totally an issue with that with me. And like I said, I got good people around.

• 1:05:14Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:14Speaker 01

  You know, as long as they're around to keep me, you know, if I swear away that way, they always got some help room to run me back in. Oh, come on, Dennis. Stay on that. Stay on that. We got you. We got you. Okay, great. So, so the record be straight. You know about the alcohol problem I had in this documentary. They gonna, you'll see a lot of that.

• 1:05:30Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:31Speaker 01

  So, but I'm here today, living, breathing, staying healthy, trying to. You know, so I got a lot of life to live now.

• 1:05:38Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:38Speaker 01

  And a lot of healing, a lot to, uh, look forward to, pretty much.

• 1:05:41Lewis Howes?

  That's good, man. Lots of healing. We always gotta heal. Every day, I'm healing my past and we all got time to heal, so. I got a couple of final questions that I wanna ask you. This has been really powerful, so thanks for being open and vulnerable and sharing with me everything. This is called the three truths. I ask this question, I ask this question to everyone at the end.

• 1:06:00Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:06:01Lewis Howes?

  And I want you to imagine it's your last day many years from now. And you get to, you get to live as long as you wanna live.

• 1:06:07Speaker 01

  Twenty-five years?

• 1:06:08Lewis Howes?

  You get to live whenever you want.

• 1:06:09Speaker 01

  Twenty-five, it's like twenty-five is eighty-three.

• 1:06:13Lewis Howes?

  You get to live as long as you want from here.

• 1:06:14Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:06:15Lewis Howes?

  You get to, you get to live another hundred years if you want to.

• 1:06:17Speaker 01

  I'd love to live a hundred years.

• 1:06:18Lewis Howes?

  Twenty years, whatever you want to live.

• 1:06:20Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:06:20Lewis Howes?

  But it's the last day. You gotta like, turn the lights off, right?

• 1:06:23Speaker 01

  Right, cool.

• 1:06:24Lewis Howes?

  And imagine you got to achieve everything you want to for the rest of your life.

• 1:06:27Speaker 01

  It's like taking acid, right?

• 1:06:29Lewis Howes?

  What's that?

• 1:06:32Speaker 01

  I'm gonna take one of those that turn the lights off. No, just see how much you go trip.

• 1:06:35Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. Imagine from now until the end of your life, you achieve every dream you want to accomplish.

• 1:06:41Speaker 01

  Alright.

• 1:06:42Lewis Howes?

  You apologize to your mom, you have the relationship with your family you want, you have whatever you want to achieve. You go, you bring North Korea and America together, anything you want to do, you may happen, right? You write the books, the movies, whatever you want to do.

• 1:06:54Speaker 01

  You gonna ask me?

• 1:06:56Speaker 01

  Okay, ask me.

• 1:06:57Lewis Howes?

  But for whatever reason, you gotta take everything with you, all your awards and accomplishments, your body of work. It's gotta go with you to wherever you go next in the next world. And imagine you get to leave behind your three lessons to the world. Three things you know to be true about your life and the lessons you've learned that would be lessons you would share to other people after you're gone. What would you say are your three lessons or three truths?

• 1:07:21Speaker 01

  Three lessons? That was a difficult question, right? Three truths, right?

• 1:07:25Lewis Howes?

  Three truths, three things you know to be true that you would want to share with other people that they would have.

• 1:07:31Speaker 01

  Three lessons? Well, it's very difficult, but it's a fine line between three lessons, three truths. There's a fine line between that. First truth, I give people, you know, the truth about me, I can leave to people when I leave. I think if you actually truly understand how to live life, live it.

• 1:07:53Speaker 01

  If you understand how to live life, live it. You know, so that's one.

• 1:07:58Lewis Howes?

  That's one, okay.

• 1:07:59Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:08:00Lewis Howes?

  Live life?

• 1:08:01Speaker 01

  No, live life. If you understand how to live life, live it.

• 1:08:06Speaker 01

  You know, you got time to understand it, but live it if you have the time to live.

• 1:08:11Speaker 01

  What I've learned and what I want to leave to the world.

• 1:08:16Speaker 01

  You know, a lot of people say that you have to earn love. If you ever read the Bible and you ever see the truth on TV or visualization, what is love? Do you share it? Do you endure it? What is love?

• 1:08:32Speaker 01

  Can anyone explain that to me?

• 1:08:35Speaker 01

  I'm still looking for it. You know, because love is like a dying, dying, dying breed, you know? What is love to anyone that's living on earth? What is love? So, I said, that's a hard one right there to really get in depth with because a lot of people looking for love in all the wrong places, kind of gay, right? But always looking for love because, you know, love can heal and love can destroy. So, what is love? I'm looking for it. Okay. So. All right, that's number two. Number two.

• 1:09:10Speaker 01

  This is the one I always, always, I think I put this number one, but I'm putting this, keeping it with my trying to serve to the world. I'm not looking, I'm not looking forward to die. You're not looking forward to? I'm not, I'm not looking forward to die, forward to die.

• 1:09:26Speaker 01

  I'm looking how to die.

• 1:09:32Speaker 01

  Wow. How do you want to die? That's the question I want to know. How do I want to die? How? Right now, I have no clue if I want to die a certain way. I just don't have a clue how to die. Because I had all too many opportunities in my life to die. And I wrote a book called, I Should Be Dead By Now, and I believe in it. I should be dead by now, but I'm trying to find a way, not how to die. And I put my life in too many fucking vulnerable situations to put myself in six feet under. But someone has had this light of love that I don't understand. It's keeping rising me from the dead, from the dead and saying, you're not done yet.

• 1:10:16Speaker 01

  You're not done yet. Where are you going? I'm not done. And it keeps me hoping and believing that I can still change and still evolutionize the fact that, hey, that's the reason why I'm still moving and grooving, still living, still trying to perpetuate myself to understand why am I living?

• 1:10:37Speaker 01

  Because I shouldn't be. So, take that. Thank you, guys.

• 1:10:45Lewis Howes?

  These are powerful. I've got, I've got one final question before I ask the question. We've got the Thirty for Thirty out now. You're, people need to watch this. It's freaking unbelievable. It's powerful, it's moving, it's emotional.

• 1:10:59Speaker 01

  It's an Emmy or Oscar, maybe. Someone won the Oscar nomination, whatever I'm saying. But it's, it's good for everybody in the world. Please understand. It's powerful. If he's saying it, if he's saying it, come on. You know, so.

• 1:11:09Lewis Howes?

  You're also on Instagram, you're on TikTok. You're, now you get to express yourself on social media, which I think is cool. So they can follow you there on all these platforms. What else do you have going on right now that we can support you with or follow or be a part of?

• 1:11:23Speaker 01

  There's a lot of things, man, but I don't want to get into it right now. But I think I've been having this, this, this vision about me doing a one-on-one special.

• 1:11:34Speaker 01

  Talk to one individual.

• 1:11:37Speaker 01

  One individual, I don't want to have this one-hour special, just talking to one individual.

• 1:11:42Speaker 01

  That's it. And this one individual is the world.

• 1:11:47Speaker 01

  One individual is just no script, no nothing. I just want someone to say, you know.

• 1:11:54Lewis Howes?

  It'll be powerful.

• 1:11:55Speaker 01

  And just talk to that one individual. That's it, it's the world. And the world is the fact that I'm talking to this individual. That's the world. And when it's all said and done, I'm actually talking to me.

• 1:12:13Speaker 01

  I'm trying to find a lesson, a life to learn, a lesson to learn. I'm actually talking to the world, but when it's all said and done, I'm actually talking to me. Trying to make some sense.

• 1:12:25Speaker 01

  So, that's gonna be powerful, too. It's coming, that's what I'm working on right now. Trying to orchestrate this, this moment for life, for the world. So one can see what I see. That's what Jesus and God want for everyone, you know. He said, "Follow me, I'll show you the promised land." I don't want that, I just wanna follow me to make everyone happy, that's it.

• 1:12:47Lewis Howes?

  Well Dennis, I want to acknowledge you, man, because you're a...

• 1:12:51Speaker 01

  This guy, this clean shaved guy over here. Look at here, what, he's like thirty years old?

• 1:12:56Lewis Howes?

  Thirty-six.

• 1:12:56Speaker 01

  Oh hey, there you go.

• 1:12:58Lewis Howes?

  I want to acknowledge you, man, because you're authentically you, a hundred percent. And no doubt, you do what you want, you're authentic, you expressive, the nails, the hair, that mean, you've got anything you want and you wanna feel and express, you do it.

• 1:13:11Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:13:12Lewis Howes?

  And so many people are afraid to express themselves. I'm not saying you're perfect.

• 1:13:15Speaker 01

  Oh no.

• 1:13:15Lewis Howes?

  And we all got a lot to learn and grow, but the fact that you are able to express yourself fully and really not care what people think is a powerful gift. And I appreciate your vulnerability and sharing on here today. People makes you watch the movie. Final question is, what is your definition of greatness?

• 1:13:35Speaker 01

  No one's ever asked me that. What's my definition of greatness?

• 1:13:39Lewis Howes?

  Came to the right place, man.

• 1:13:40Speaker 01

  I know I came in the right place, but it's like, the definition of greatness, I don't know.

• 1:13:46Speaker 01

  You know, God and Jesus and Moses, they didn't, they didn't foresee greatness, did they? They died. They left, they left something for us to hold on to, right? What is greatness? If you wanna see greatness, I think yes, that you had to go whole hands to people that left us and left us something to hold on to. If you wanna go see greatness or be greatness, they're already gone. And people are still, you know, still looking for what is greatness? What is love? What is life? How do we live? Why are we doing it? Why are we moving so fast? You wanna see greatness? Okay, great. Let's go find out what greatness is. It ain't here, seems like, we all fighting every day. Let's go find greatness.

• 1:14:30Speaker 01

  It's somewhere, it ain't here. And everyone always has, has, has something to always look upon. They always like...

• 1:14:40Lewis Howes?

  Amen.

• 1:14:43Speaker 01

  Wanna go see greatness? That is.

• 1:14:45Lewis Howes?

  There you go.

• 1:14:46Speaker 01

  Your time will come. He's gonna see you sooner or later.

• 1:14:51Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:14:51Lewis Howes?

  There you go. Thank you, brother. Appreciate it, man.

• 1:14:58Lewis Howes?

  There you have it, my friend. I hope you enjoyed this one powerful episode. Blew my mind and it was just an amazing time to be in Dennis's presence and to experience some time with him. Really loved getting to know him and I really hope he takes action on connecting with his mother and expressing how he truly feels, sharing his apology with her, forgiving her and allowing her to apologize to him. I think it would be so healing for both of them to be able to witness that happen. So I truly hope he takes that on and I'm glad he was willing to open up and talk about that. And I want you to think about someone in your life that you haven't apologized to that you feel like you should. Maybe you've

• 1:15:39Lewis Howes?

  been holding on a grudge for six months or a year, or maybe it's been decades where you've been holding on to something that is tearing you up inside. And maybe you've been rationalizing with yourself and saying, "It's okay. I don't need to apologize. They hurt me. They weren't there for me. They did this to me." I get it. I've felt that way at times as well and it's not fun, you know, doing that and being the one to go and apologize. But there is power in your apology. There is power in finding peace in your heart, whether they accept apology or not. You coming from a calm, loving place and apologizing and allowing someone else to apologize can be healing for you. So if

• 1:16:22Lewis Howes?

  that's something that you've been thinking about for a long time, or maybe you've forgotten about, it might be time to bring that back up and have the courage to do that today. Don't wait three weeks or three more years or whatever it may be. Do it right now. Life is now. You never know what's gonna happen tomorrow, in the next week, the next year. There's never going to be the right time to do something unless you do it right now. I hope you enjoyed this. Please share it with a friend, someone you might think this would be powerful for. You can spread the inspiration for someone. You can make an impact in one person's life by just sending them this text message, lewishouse.com/854

• 1:17:05Lewis Howes?

  or copy and paste the link on the Apple Podcast or Spotify or wherever you're listening to this podcast, just copy and paste the link and text one friend and say, "Hey, I was thinking about you today. I thought you might find this episode interesting with Dennis Rodman. Let me know what you think." We'd love to get this message out there, share it on your social media. If this is your first time here, please subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcast. Leave us a review and a rating and let me know what you think. I always want to hear your feedback on how we can make this better. How we can make it more insightful and helpful for you in your personal life. Grace Jones said, "I believe in individuality, that everybody is special, and it's up to them to find that quality and let it live."

• 1:17:49Lewis Howes?

  What is the personality within you that you've been holding back? Where could you be more courageous in expressing your true essence? The true personality that only you have within you. No one else can replicate who you are ever in the world, never before, never again. It's only you. If you're hiding behind something, if you're trying to fit in too much, if you're trying to please everyone, you've got to start getting your personality out there even more. Because different is what's going to help you stand apart from everyone else and help you achieve your dreams even faster. Not trying to fit in, but trying to be more of who you are. I hope this was powerful. I love you so very much. And you know what time it is?

• 1:18:32Lewis Howes?

  It's time to go out there and do something great.