Is Islam the Problem or Has the West Become Weak? | Raymond Ibrahim | PBD Podcast #869

Raymond Ibrahim, historian and author of Sword and Scimitar, argues that false history shapes how the West understands Islam. He challenges common accounts of the Crusades, discusses foreign funding in universities, and questions America's alliances with Saudi Arabia and Turkey over its Iran policy. 👞 Get the NEW Billionaire Suede Loafer: https://bit.ly/4ym5oRA 🍫 Get The FLB 1's NOW IN CHOCOLATE: https://bit.ly/4gXlv0X 📕 ORDER RAYMOND IBRAHIM'S "SWORD AND SCIMITAR": https://amzn.to/4hA60h0 📘 ORDER RAYMOND IBRAHIM'S "DEFENDERS OF THE WEST": https://amzn.to/4ANq4nA 👕 SHOP THE ICON COLLECTION: https://bit.ly/3TuUU3x Ⓜ️ CONNECT ON MINNECT: https://bit.ly/4kSVkso Ⓜ️ PBD PODCAST CIRCLES: https://bit.ly/4mAWQAP 👔 BET-DAVID CONSULTING: https://bit.ly/4lzQph2 🥃 BOARDROOM CIGAR LOUNGE: https://bit.ly/4pzLEXj 🇰 KALSHI: http://kalshi.com/pbd SUBSCRIBE TO: @VALUETAINMENT @BetDavidConsulting @vtgenz @ValuetainmentComedy ABOUT US: Patrick Bet-David is the founder and CEO of Valuetainment Media. He is the author of the #1 Wall Street Journal Bestseller “Your Next Five Moves” (Simon & Schuster) and a father of 2 boys and 2 girls. He currently resides in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  You are to be put to death. That's the law. Mass enslavement, mass massacres.

• 0:07Speaker 00

  Systematic destruction of churches and synagogues. Exponential atrocities.

• 0:12Patrick Bet-David?

  You have the option to either join us or we're killing you. Is that that's black and white?

• 0:16Speaker 00

  Yeah. Either convert or die.

• 0:19Patrick Bet-David?

  Tell me more. Are we too judgmental towards Muslims?

• 0:23Speaker 00

  How they're presented today is literally the opposite of what they were.

• 0:28Speaker 00

  Nothing changed because their life was about raiding the other, enslaving and killing. Fake history is much more dangerous than fake news. It's fake. Fake news, it does its mischief and then it's gone, but fake history. Extremely dangerous to our democracy.

• 0:41Patrick Bet-David?

  Why are they doing it and how are they so successful?

• 0:43Speaker 00

  Horrible. How dare you? How can you say this about a whole religion of 2 billion people? I get this all the time. It's the facts.

• 0:49Patrick Bet-David?

  How has he been so successful at spreading his message worldwide?

• 0:53Speaker 00

  Us became Muslims and it didn't matter if they're your relatives or not. Think of ISIS, right? But on steroids.

• 1:01Patrick Bet-David?

  Tell us about Vlad the Impaler, you know? What is the true story of this guy? Was he a good guy? Was he a villain? Was he a bad guy?

• 1:09Speaker 00

  Who was he?

• 1:10Patrick Bet-David?

  Who was he?

• 1:11Speaker 00

  Well.

• 1:18Patrick Bet-David?

  So I'm gonna ask you an indirect way of helping our guys, our production team that works so hard, get a raise. Do you want to help them get a raise? This is how you can help us out. Forty-nine percent of you watch our podcast, that our editors work so hard. Producers, cutters, all of them, our production team. Thirty-two of them that work here, they work very, very hard to deliver a good quality to you. If you enjoy our show and you want to help this thing get bigger, so we can take our talent that we have in-house to support this production all the time and maybe even give them a raise, then please subscribe to the channel. That allows us to get more viewership and indirectly it makes bigger opportunities for our current team that we have. Thank you so much. You've written a few big books, okay?

• 2:02Patrick Bet-David?

  Of course, the Sword and Scimitar, which massive book and the foreword, you know, Victor Davis Hansen, who was just, we just talked to him about a couple of weeks ago on the podcast. We're gonna put the link below to go order this book. But we got a lot of different things to talk about. Some of it's gonna piss off some people because you're one of these guys that's not just an opinion. You study these things and I think it's important for the audience to know this before we get into this and we'll kind of give the background a little bit. But I want to start off with, you know, the first question to see how you would address this, which to me it's a question I think a lot of us aren't asking enough. Is Islam the problem or has the West become weak and tolerant?

• 2:43Speaker 00

  Wow. Well, I often address that specific question and the answer is yes to both. So Islam is inherently, intrinsically not compatible with Western civilization. Let's just be honest, as a religion, as an ideology. And again, this is not, I'm putting Muslims aside for now. This is not an artificial distinction. I think I can speak about the religion. And then we can talk about how Muslims fit into the religion. But the religion in and of itself is inherently incompatible with Western civilization simply because it teaches and expects things of Muslims that are antithetical to Western norms. Okay, no religious freedom as understood in the West. If you're born to a Muslim father, you're a Muslim.

• 3:24Speaker 00

  If you in any way, shape or form try to break away, especially by converting to a religion, say Christianity, you're an apostate and you are to be put to death. That's the law. Okay, there's no nuance to it. There is no, you know, the only nuance is one idea is that women shouldn't, shouldn't be killed. They should be imprisoned and starved until they come back to Islam. Okay, which doesn't make it a whole lot better. Same thing with the idea of blasphemy. If you speak against Islam, put to death. This is all, this isn't radical.

• 3:52Patrick Bet-David?

  In Muslim majority countries, not if I'm a Muslim in a different country.

• 3:56Speaker 00

  No, no, I'm now talking about what Islam teaches.

• 3:58Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay.

• 3:58Speaker 00

  Okay, and then we'll look at it, how it manifests in various countries and epochs and how people treat it. But what I'm trying to say is the religion itself, okay, as it is, it just doesn't work with the West. There's no religious freedom. So if you're a Christian or a Jew, you're called Ahli Kitab, people of the book. You have limited rights. You don't, nowhere near the same rights of a Muslim. So you can live in an Islamic country, but there's all sorts of restrictions on you about churches, about what you can do, what you can say, what you can wear. Your word has no validity at a court of law against the Muslim. So things that of course by Western standards would be considered completely discriminatory. Okay, so that's why I say it's not compatible, Islam itself.

• 4:40Speaker 00

  Now, we can talk about how different countries, you know, allow their Islam to be expressed, how different people, the vast continuum, and we can talk about that. But the religion itself, it just simply, it's a black and white. This isn't a hard question. There's, you know, people try to complicate it, but it's just, it's not.

• 4:57Patrick Bet-David?

  It's not compatible, but the question is, is the West becoming too

• 5:02Speaker 00

  Oh, right, the second part, yes, yes.

• 5:04Patrick Bet-David?

  Soft and tolerant and weak where we're like, we lack paranoia. So maybe, maybe the question is, are we too judgmental towards Muslims and Islam? Or are we not paranoid enough and we're like, it's okay, nothing's gonna happen here?

• 5:18Speaker 00

  Much more the latter. And so, yeah, I forgot your original question, which was, is it this or is it that? So first I said Islam is inherently a problem. And yes, the other problem is the West is just like an ostrich, has its head in the sand, doesn't want to acknowledge it. We're, like you said, we're not too judgmental. We're actually trying to be too naive. Okay, we don't want to acknowledge this. Everything I just said about Islam, you know, no mainstream source would ever want to say that openly. You know, this is horrible. How dare you? How can you say this about a whole religion of 2 billion people? I get this all the time. Okay, but it's just, it's the fact. So, so the combination now is this and we'll have, we'll get into the history because it's relevant to what I'm gonna say now, but as just as a quick precursor.

• 6:03Speaker 00

  So what Muslims did historically was they would invade and conquer all throughout the world. Christian lands, not in Persian, Persia and Hindus all around. But the people fought back, the Christians, let's say. The difference is now, and Islam was a powerful force. Now Islam is really, believe it or not, a very weak force. But it's being enabled and empowered by, let's say, the West. Okay, so now when people, for example, in Britain, it's very common to hear people complain Muslims are invading our land. To which I often say, they're not invading, they're being invited. It's a whole different ballgame. They're not coming with swords and forcing their way in while, you know, your police and your armies are trying to hold them back. It's quite the opposite. They're bringing them in, they're giving them everything they want

• 6:47Speaker 00

  and they're shutting you down when you speak and they put you in jail. So, so that's, it's a double whammy. Yes, Islam is inherently what it is. And the West, for whatever reasons, which we'll get into, is doing everything possible to enable and empower it.

• 7:01Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so when did we become soft? What was the turning point of us becoming soft and no longer, you know, being paranoid? Was it because of how powerful we became? Was it because how strong the military is? The paranoia went away, but when did we become the soft?

• 7:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, this, that's a good question and there's, it's multi-layered depending on when. I would say, you know, first of all, it starts in many ways with the Protestant Reformation. Okay, in the 16th century. And the reason for that is, and this is well-known, it's a historical point. I'm not, a lot of people get upset. They think I'm attacking Protestantism. I'm not. I'm just saying as a historical development, because the Protestants broke away from the Catholics. Everything that the Catholics did at that time was seen as bad and all of Catholic history is bad. And one of the main things that, for example, the Protestants would point to were the Crusades. So all of that was completely demonized in Western countries, Protestant nations. So that was the first kernel. And oftentimes, hand in hand with that came a sort of rehabilitation of Islam amongst Protestants.

• 8:01Speaker 00

  In fact, Protestants during the wars with the Catholics would often side with Muslims against the Catholics. So, so there became a sort of a softening towards Islam. So that's the beginning. Then you have all sorts of other things that are, that, you know, also the Enlightenment and kind of rising above, seeing things through a religious prism and you keep moving fast forward with this sort of secularization. The more secular you are, because when we talk about the history, you will see when Christians were actually Christians, they were not, they would not do what we're seeing today, which is basically capitulate before Islam. I mean, every, a day doesn't pass when I don't hear about or see a video of a church, Catholic, Anglican, Protestant inviting Muslims in and having them declare Quranic verses that actually condemn Christianity.

• 8:45Speaker 00

  That would have not happened. Okay? So, but I think also it really revs up and really speeds up around the 60s because that's where everything kind of starts, the sexual freedom, you know, the, everything, the liberalism. It's, that's what we call, right? Liberalism, leftism. All those thoughts come. And you see it also in the academic world and how books are written. So I deal with history and when you read books from that era on, okay, what we call woke history, it's all there. Where all of a sudden Muslims are the good guys. Oh, it was Europe's medieval Christian ancestors who were horrible because of what they did. And if anything, we need to learn from Islam and we need to be good to them and we need to make up for the sins of our ancestors.

• 9:26Speaker 00

  That's become the sort of, uh, you know, general mood amongst many Western people, including Christians.

• 9:31Patrick Bet-David?

  Even in movies, a lot of times you look at movies, it's like, you know, the West is the enemy. The Muslims were innocent, you know, we came and took over their land and that's not fair what we did to them. So you, you think the root of it, of us becoming soft is liberalism?

• 9:47Speaker 00

  If you want to call it that, that's the, for lack of a better word, it's, uh, but liberalism is, it goes hand in hand with secularism. And, uh, secularism in many ways is a sort of abnegation of religion. Um, in this case would be Christianity. So in other words, what I'm saying is when, when, when Christianity was a dominant force in Europe, none of this would have happened. You can't, uh, Christians were, you know, were, were wise to Islam. They were, they weren't cruel to them, but you know, they, they, they're not gonna, they knew what it was about. They got it, they understood it, they resisted it, they fought it. But once that left and, uh, and it was supplanted with this idea that, oh, religion is bad, especially Christianity. Because as you mentioned, that's the main thing, it's in the movies always. And movies, of course, are intentionally made to mold how we think.

• 10:31Speaker 00

  That's always the case, people think it's just entertainment. Yeah, I'm sure they make money via entertainment, but it's ultimately about, uh, molding our epistemology and how we understand the world.

• 10:40Patrick Bet-David?

  So then, but, but stay there, so if it's liberalism, secularism and movies and Hollywood entertainment to shape the mindset. Who ran the entertainment industry? So if the entertainment industry is ran by, they would say a lot of these Jews, Jewish executives. Why would they paint a picture of Muslims being the victims and the West being the aggressor? Why would they paint the picture that way?

• 11:01Speaker 00

  Well, I think that's a very prominent picture that that particular demographic would want. Because it, it serves them too, because they're the minority. And they want you to think and remember and believe that the medieval era, when Christianity was a force, was a horrible thing. Because look what it did.

• 11:17Patrick Bet-David?

  To everybody.

• 11:18Speaker 00

  It persecuted Jews, it persecuted Muslims. That's why we need Christianity out, okay? Because it's just a horrible, a horrible force. So yeah, I do believe that's a, that's a factor in.

• 11:27Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so, so, so I, I want to go to a bunch of different places. But for the average person that doesn't know, what makes you qualify to speak on this? And why did you choose your career path to be a writer and just study this topic?

• 11:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, um, okay, so my family comes from Egypt, um, what's known as a Coptic, Coptic Christian, the original inhabitants of Egypt, who were native Christians. I was born in the United States and, um, um, I, so I grew up bilingual, speaking Arabic. And I also studied Arabic in, um, in college, so I know the language very well.

• 12:00Patrick Bet-David?

  California State Fresno, right? You went to Fresno?

• 12:02Speaker 00

  I did go to, yeah, I went to California State Fresno, but I also later on went to Georgetown University, Catholic, uh, University in America to study Semitic languages. And, um, all sorts of things, but yeah, my primary education is at Cal State University of Fresno, where I majored in history and also philosophy. And, um, I got a master's degree and I was always interested in history and, uh, especially pre-modern history. Especially the history that revolves around, you know, it's normal to be interested in your own people, your culture. So I studied ancient Egypt, Mesopotamia, um, but I really started developing an interest because of my Christian background and my family's from Islam. Um, I was really interested in that nexus of Islam and Christianity. And so that became a focal point for me.

• 12:45Speaker 00

  So my master's thesis, when I was at Fresno State, chaired by Victor Davis Hansen, he was, he was the chair, this is a long time ago. Was the first major battle between Muslims and Christians, which I, and I did it in a very scholarly way, based on Arabic and Greek texts, which I translated. Uh, so it has a very academic feel, but since then I've been very much interested in that connection, okay? Historically, but for a long time, then I worked at the Library of Congress. I worked in the, uh, Near East section where I dealt with all these Arabic books and all, all the languages of the Middle East, actually. Including Armenian, Georgian, uh, Syriac, and, um. Long story short, when I was there, I found writings in Arabic by Al Qaeda. This is when Al Qaeda was a big deal. Uh, I found, I found this in around 2004.

• 13:28Speaker 00

  So three years after nine 11 and because the Library of Congress gets all these books from around the world and most.

• 13:34Patrick Bet-David?

  This is pre-social, this is pre-social media, this is pre-Chatty B T, this is pre-all of that.

• 13:38Speaker 00

  This is card catalog days.

• 13:39Patrick Bet-David?

  So this is brilliant, like you worked, was the motive of working there for you independently to get smarter?

• 13:44Speaker 00

  Uh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, it was my field of interest. I was at Georgetown University studying Islam, uh, working on a PhD. I got this job, it was an internship at the Library of Congress, then it became a full-time job. Then I found, um, the writings in Arabic, they were in a bin, just laying around. I'm looking at these Arabic books and all of a sudden I see, oh, Osama bin Laden is the author. Oh, Ayman Zawahiri, who was the number two, uh, is the author. So long story short, I actually went to Victor Davis Hansen, because we were still in touch, as we are now. And I told him about my, my findings and he connected me with his, uh, literary agent and I got a book deal out of it, which became The Al Qaeda Reader. Okay, and what was important about that book, which I wanted to get the message out, is that before I came across these writings, um, Al Qaeda had, nine 11 had happened.

• 14:27Speaker 00

  And Al Qaeda was sending all these communiques that were being disseminated by Western media, BBC, CNN. And in these communiques, he would constantly present his attack as a product of reciprocal treatment. We did that to you, nine 11, because of what you're doing to us, the Muslim world. And he would list grievance after grievance after grievance, okay? Uh, and the grievances were anything from colonialism, the Crusades, support for Israel, of course. Not signing the Kyoto Protocol, um, you know, uh, blasphemy against Muhammad, people speaking up cartoons, it was everything, right? But what I found and why I wanted to translate it was this Arabic stuff that was directed to Muslims. And it didn't mention any of that, it sounded more like ISIS, okay?

• 15:09Speaker 00

  It was more kind of like, they're infidels, there's, we have nothing to talk about. Whether they're good to us or bad to us is irrelevant. We have to attack them according to the Quran, we have to subjugate them, kill them, et cetera, et cetera. So that, anyway, I put all that together and came out in a book, which was The Al Qaeda Reader, came out finally in 2007. And then I continued, um, I went back to what I was interested in, I'm a Coptic Christian. And, uh, there's a mass persecution going on of Christians, in fact, just yesterday, or the day before, Donald Trump was speaking before the UN. And he mentioned it, he actually, I was glad to hear him say it, he said, you know, the, the hypocrisy of the UN. They're trying to push for the human rights of transgenderism by forcing, you know, children to be mutilated. But they won't say a word about something like 400 million Christians around the world are being persecuted brutally.

• 15:53Speaker 00

  Okay, so I, I ended up really focusing on that and I wrote another book, The Crucified Again, which came out in 2013. And that was based on persecution, the subtitle is exposing Islam's new war on Christians. Okay, and that book, I don't know if it's out of print, but it's supposed to come back, it's available on Kindle. Anyway, after that, I started gravitating back to my interest, my historical interest, um, going back to my college days. And that's when I started what's known as my historical trilogy, writing these, uh, these books. I wrote Sword in Cimatar, that came out in, um, uh, 2018. And that is the, the main book that I really recommend, because it looks at, the subtitle is 14 Centuries of War between Islam and the West.

• 16:33Speaker 00

  And that's what I do, I, I felt that there was this, uh, thing going on where a lot of anti-Islam people, and there were many. Were, were always making the doctrinal argument, okay? Which is to say, they would say, well, look at the Quran, what it says, and, you know, this, this verse and the Hadith. Um, and I thought that's fine, I do that too. But it was kind of a, a superficial argument in many ways, because it was always people were saying the same handful of.

• 16:57Patrick Bet-David?

  Mocking the religion.

• 16:58Speaker 00

  No, mocking it on the one hand, but also trying to show how it's violent, okay? So they would quote, you know, the, the various verses, which is good to quote, I agree. But the reason I thought it wasn't as effective, I think it's good and I still do it, I'm not against people, um, actually pointing out and quoting the Quran to show the violence or the intolerance of Islam. But because one of the responses would be, well, what about the Bible? You know, the Old Testament's full of violence and Joshua and, you know, genocides. And does, does that mean Christians and Jews are all involved in all that? So that was one of the arguments, so that's why I wanted to show, okay, so let's look at the historical record. And that's what I did in this book, Sword in Cimatar, I said, let's see, how did Muslim, was it, is, is jihad just something in the book? Or did it manifest itself historically?

• 17:39Speaker 00

  And in Sword in Cimatar, which is basically a continuation of my MA thesis, which was the Battle of Yarmouk, the first military battle. And it's chapter one of the book. But that book shows, I go through from, you know, from the times of Muhammad up until the United States founding. And I show you battle after battle, expansion after expansion, how it was Muslims literally acting on the concept of jihad. And I look at their texts, so I, most of the damning evidence comes from their writings. Where they present what they're doing as a jihad, where they boast of enslaving infidels. Where they boast of burning churches and, and breaking the cross. Of course, I also quote from the Christian and European side as well, which corroborates what they say.

• 18:19Speaker 00

  Um, and the long story short, in that book, what you find out is what most people don't know, you know this because of your background like me. But, you know, when you, in the, in the dawn of Islam in the seventh century, when Muhammad came into being and Islam came into being. Um, if you looked at the world, Christianity, which was huge at that time, most of Christianity or Christendom was in North Africa and the Middle East. Okay, people now, when they hear the word Christendom, they think Europe. It was actually, the bulk of it was from Morocco to Egypt, all of North Africa. The Middle East was known as Greater Syria, which encompassed all the modern states today of Jordan, um, Lebanon, Israel, Iraq. And what we call Turkey, Asia Minor, okay?

• 18:58Speaker 00

  And then you had Europe, but that part of the world was, was more Christian, more populated, more advanced. This is why Constantine the Great, the first Christian emperor, moved the capital from Rome to Constantinople, what, what, what came to be known as Constantinople. And what people don't understand is that whole region was conquered in one century by Islam. So from the year 632, which is when Muhammad dies, till 732, one century. If you look at a map, all of the Middle East, Persia, which was not Christian, it's Sassanian Persia, was conquered, all of the Middle East that I mentioned, Greater Syria, that whole region, Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco, and Spain, okay, conquered.

• 19:41Speaker 00

  And I gave you the date 732, 632, 732, because in 732, you have the pivotal Battle of Tours in the middle of France, where they're finally stopped, okay? And the raids continue, but they get pushed more or less south of the Pyrenees Mountains into Spain. Okay, and that's just the first iteration of Islam. Now, when I mention that, a lot of historians, they call that the Great Arab Conquest. And if you read a sort of, you know, modern day rendition or historical account of it, the Islam is not even in the picture. It's just raids and Muslims just happened to, it was a dynamic conquest. When you look at the Islamic sources, as I did, well, it's presented absolutely as a jihad. It's presented as the commandment of Allah.

• 20:23Speaker 00

  We are enforcing and doing what our holy book, the Quran, says, what the Hadith, what Muhammad proclaimed, and that's why we're doing this. And like I said, it's full of what you would expect. Think of ISIS, right, but on steroids, essentially, like exponential atrocities, where systematic destruction of churches and synagogues. And what are Buddhist temples, Hindu temples, when they would go in the east? Mass enslavement, mass massacres, okay? The Allah Akbar that we hear and we've come to associate with terrorism, constantly, even in the writings. You have the Christians, early on, they would say things like, yeah, and they screamed that horrible sound they always make because they didn't understand what it was, but later on, they understand.

• 21:06Speaker 00

  So I think it's important to point out that this conquest was literally seen by Muslims and within Islamic historiography, it's presented as a jihad. So that's what Muslims learn, that's what they believe, okay? It's important to keep that in mind, I think. And that's just the first wave. So, and again, this is all in my book Sword in the Cemetery. Then, later on, you have what's known as the Turks. They come in from the steppes, and they come in as originally as slave soldiers. The Arabs bring them in, Islamize them, and they make them really powerful slave soldiers. Long story short, they rise up in the ranks and basically they control the caliphate and the caliphs are puppet, but they're Sunni Muslims, just like the caliphs, the most of them.

• 21:47Speaker 00

  And you have the Seljuk Turks, that's one particular dynasty, which now starts running, you know, amok all throughout Asia Minor, okay? Which is still primarily Christian. Remember, Asia Minor, Turkey, is one of the really oldest Christian churches. This is where the Book of Revelation, Jesus, you know, talking to the various churches in Asia Minor. Now, it's of course Turkey, it's almost 100% Islamic. And because of these Turkic invasions in the 11th century. And the sources, the way they talk about what happened, the contemporary sources, written by Armenians, Matthew of Adessa, for example, literally, he talks about tens of thousands of Christians being massacred, hundreds of thousands, women, children enslaved and being taken back into the Islamic world.

• 22:29Speaker 00

  Systematic destruction of churches in one, in Ani, which was one of the main cities, or one of them was called the city of 1,001 churches. And every single church was desecrated and torched during this time. And these are the events that people don't know led up to the First Crusade.

• 22:46Patrick Bet-David?

  So why, though? What's their why? I mean, when you think about every single Muslim majority country today, every one of them, whether it's Iran, previous to that was Zoroastrianism, right? Egypt, crafted Christian, kind of like yourself, Turkey, Christians, Pakistan, Hindu Buddhism, Bangladesh, same, Afghanistan, same, Iraq, Christian and Zoroastrian, Syria, Christian, Lebanon, Christian, Jordan, Christian, Palestinian territory, majorly Christian. Some of them are in South America, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Morocco, Sudan, Somalia, Indonesia, Malaysia, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan. These are Muslim majority countries that they came in and now took over. They were not previously to that. One is why, two is the following.

• 23:28Patrick Bet-David?

  One has to sit there and say, well, as much as some people fear the Jews, or hey, what's their motive? What are they trying to do? They haven't conquered countries the way the Muslim religion has done, right? Why are they doing it? And how are they so successful? What's their strategy?

• 23:47Speaker 00

  Well, the difference, the main difference between the Muslims and the Jews is just, first of all, sheer number and strength. The Jews, if they get accused of anything, it's undue influence and behind the scenes and machinations, generally, because how can they look, what are they, 0.01% of the world? Islam is a physical force, right? It's, we're talking about two, and growing, 2 billion people. So Islam was always seen as a physical, a real tangible threat that can come and conquer through sheer numbers and take over your land. All those countries that you mentioned were literally conquered by force. I spoke about North Africa and Middle East, but you mentioned that Kazakhstan and these, how did they become Islamic? It was through the same mechanism, just violence and conquest.

• 24:30Speaker 00

  India, people aren't aware of, you know, the conquest of India by the Arabs. According to one well-known, reputable, Indian historian, I think his name is, we can look it up, something Kal, but he wrote a very methodical history, and he came up with some insane number, like in five centuries of non-stop jihad, something like 100 million Hindus were killed, okay, just because they're not Muslim, right? So that is known.

• 24:57Patrick Bet-David?

  You have the option to either join us or we're killing you. That's black and white?

• 25:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 25:02Patrick Bet-David?

  And is that how it was from the beginning?

• 25:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, so from the beginning, according to Islamic teaching, if you're a Hindu or a pagan, yeah, you're supposed to either convert or die. But if you're a people of the book, a Christian or Jew, you can actually pay tribute, Jizya, and live as a second-class citizen, as I was mentioning earlier, with all these restrictions, and you're supposed to be humiliated as part of the ritual. But then it became elastic, and later on, even the Muslims realized, rather than keep slaughtering these Hindus, let's get money out of it, and they gave them the same status, where they can just pay and maintain their religion.

• 25:36Patrick Bet-David?

  Did any one of them that converted decide to retaliate against them?

• 25:40Speaker 00

  Well, yeah, there were oftentimes lots of, I'll tell you one interesting story.

• 25:45Patrick Bet-David?

  Successful retaliations, except from, we'll get to Spain here in a minute. I'm talking about these Muslim majority countries, okay, that converted.

• 25:52Speaker 00

  That are still Muslim.

• 25:53Patrick Bet-David?

  That are still Muslim. Was there any internal generals, leaders, defectors that are like, you know what? I'm sick of what they did, you killed my dad, you killed my mom, you killed my wife, I'm gonna retaliate. Was there any successful stories?

• 26:04Speaker 00

  They're not successful, obviously, because they're still Islamic. But there definitely were uprisings, even the cops.

• 26:08Patrick Bet-David?

  Why did they, why did they fail?

• 26:11Speaker 00

  They, well, that's, that question goes hand in hand with why were the Muslims and the Arabs so successful in one century as to conquer that humongous, you know, region that I described, all of North Africa, Spain, and the Middle East? That remains a mystery amongst historians. The Muslim answer, of course, is Allah was with them. And the Christian answer, the historic Christian answer is not unlike it, because they said, yes, Allah was with them because he was punishing us for our sins.

• 26:35Patrick Bet-David?

  Can you put that video up, please? Can you put the video up that shows in 60 seconds? Just turn off the audio. This kind of paints a picture, and I want you to elaborate on this with the audience. Go for it.

• 26:47Speaker 02

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• 29:30Patrick Bet-David?

  This is Spain. So Muslims take over, and then gradually, Spain fights against them. Goes, keeps going south until they retake Spain over. But at the end of the day, fatalities end up being around seven million people. So maybe walk us through, how did Muslims, Islam, take over Spain? And what did Spains do to recon, you know, reconquer their country?

• 29:56Speaker 00

  Spain in many ways is a very important topic because it's a microcosm of what we're talking about. Because it's a very self-contained environment of everything we're talking about. It has all the ingredients, has the Muslims, the Christians, the conquest. And it has a very telling history that's very applicable, actually. Every time I try to explain events today, I can't help but come back to Spain because there's a relevant precedent to talk about. So as we saw in the map, and as I pointed out, the Muslims, the Arabs invade with a massive Berber army. All Muslims, though, they invade Spain in 7-11 and essentially conquer it, okay? And, but except for a small group of Christians. So there's the Battle of Guadalajara in 7-11,

• 30:39Speaker 00

  where the actual, the king himself of Spain, the Christian king, Visigothic king, Roderick or Rodrigo, he also went out to try to stop them and was killed. And was one of the really brutal, savage battle. I talk about it in Sword and Scimitar. And then after that, there was kind of like peace, and a lot of people started to submit to Islam. Like I said, you pay tribute, you don't have to convert if you're a Christian, and you can live in peace. One of them was actually the, he's the sword bearer of the king that was killed. So he's a noble, and his name is Peleao. And apparently, at first, he agreed to it. And, but then, one of the governors tried to basically rape his sister, and he resisted. And then the governor said, "How dare you?", and tried to arrest him. And Peleao fled and went up.

• 31:24Speaker 00

  If you look at the map of Spain, the Iberian Peninsula, in the northwest quadrant, you have what's called the Asturia Mountains, okay, a very rocky region. And he basically went up there, and all the other Christians who just did not want to deal with the Muslims all went up and hid in this mountain. And there weren't very much. And at one point, a vast Muslim army came to put an end to it. And they had with them a, one of the many Christians who had become, you know, submitted to Islam. So he's basically talking on their behalf, his name is Opah, he might have been an archbishop. And he goes up to the cave of the mouth, the mouth of the cave, where Peleao and these fugitives are hiding. And he says, "Look, you already tried to fight them at the Battle of Guadalajara, and you know what happened. The whole army got killed, and the king.

• 32:06Speaker 00

  And you think you, with your, you know, small band are gonna make a difference? Submit to Islam, you know, bow the knee, take the knee, and good things will happen to you." And it's a very interesting, I have the quote in the book, but he just, it's really a nice quote where he basically just completely defies it. He says, "I will not cooperate with these invaders, I will not..." And back then, they don't call them Muslims, they're the Ismailites, or, you know, the Saracens, or whatever. And he says, "This mountain that you see here, we have faith in Christ, that this is the mustard seed, the parable of the mustard seed, something small that grows. And from this mustard seed, you know, the freedom of Spain will be regained." And low and behold, so that's where the reconquista, the reconquest, begins, right there. Very soon, in the 8th century, not long after the Muslim conquest.

• 32:51Speaker 00

  And as you saw in the map that showed, you know, how many people were dying, it was, it started slowly coming south, right? So various kingdoms were developed next from this mustard seed, Castile, Aragon, and so forth. And they started, this is when you have the reconquista, and it's constant warfare back and forth. And Muslims would constantly call for aid from Africa, and you would get these really brutal jihadists, literally jihadist, just like ISIS. In fact, they would dress like them, pure black, okay, with only their eyes showing. But they were, the first iteration was the, known as the El Moravids.

• 33:26Patrick Bet-David?

  El Moravids.

• 33:27Speaker 00

  El Moravids, which comes from an Arabic word, "Arabat", El Morabitun, which means, Arabat is basically the jihadists who live and operate on the frontier against the infidel. Okay, so they formed these bands. So that's what these guys' name was. They came there, they won various battles, but the Christians persevered. So it was, you know, it was like an ebb and flow. They'd lose, they'd fight, as we saw, it was many centuries. Then another even fiercer group, Al Mohads, which comes from the word Tauhid. Moha, have you seen ISIS when they do this? Or any Muslim? Well, that's a reflection of Tauhid, meaning the absolute staunch oneness of Allah. So the Al Mohads were named after that. They were a Tauhid, basic ISIS organization.

• 34:12Speaker 00

  They too came, engaged in all sorts of, created pyramids of Spaniard heads. You know, they would, you know, even before that, I didn't tell you, but they would try to make, the Muslims, earlier, after the Peleao and the mustard seed, they gave them some room for peace, but you had, they had to actually submit, as, they had to send a hundred of the prettiest virgin girls to the caliphate, okay? Every year, as one kind of tribute. So that's the sort of thing that it was when there was peace. And when there wasn't, there was what I'm describing, okay? So it went on and on and on, until, you know, long story short, in 1212, you have a major final battle, La Sanaa, Vasta de Toulouse, which is one of the chapters in my book, and the Christians finally prevail.

• 34:56Speaker 00

  And at that point, there still is, there's still a lot of Islam in Spain, but it's mostly in the southern tip in Granada, okay? And that's hard to conquer, and it's very isolated, and basically, it kind of lives on its own. Until finally, in 1492, Ferdinand and Isabella, who basically unify the Spains, they go and they finally after-

• 35:16Patrick Bet-David?

  How did they unify them?

• 35:17Speaker 00

  Well, she was, he's from Aragon, I think she was Castilian, and these are different kingdoms. This is why historically, when people say, "There is no Spain, it was called the Spains", because you had different Spanish kingdoms. And, but with the marriage of these two, essentially, it all became one. And before that, Portugal also was created. But anyway, they finally take Granada, and the Muslims... Now, here's where it gets really, you know, I'm almost done with the story, but then I'll show you how all the different, how it connects it today. They take Granada, and they give the Muslims, who were like half a million, they give them the ability to just stay Muslim, enforce your Sharia, but, you know, be good citizens, don't come and wage jihad.

• 35:58Patrick Bet-David?

  They allow them to enforce their Sharia?

• 36:00Speaker 00

  On themselves, in Granada, you know, and Christians aren't there. This is like, "We're letting you stay, do your thing."

• 36:05Patrick Bet-David?

  This is what, you're 1492?

• 36:06Speaker 00

  This is before 1492, okay? But the Muslims would constantly rebel, and there'd be uprisings, and they were conniving and working with other Muslims, the Barbary Muslims in North Africa, the Ottoman Turks. So they were trying to subvert Spain back to Islam. And that's when, basically, they conquered it finally in 1492. And they finally told the Muslims, okay, this is, now, here's the interesting part. This is where they told the Muslims, "Okay, you either convert, become Catholic essentially, or you leave the country and go back to Africa, where you came, from Morocco, right?" So a fatwa comes out, a fatwa is an Islamic decree by a learned jurist. And this fatwa says, "Are you familiar with the concept of taqaya?"

• 36:46Patrick Bet-David?

  No.

• 36:46Speaker 00

  Okay, so taqaya is a well-known concept, it basically, long story short, it's in the Quran. And what it is, is it allows Muslims, if they feel they're under duress by the infidel, they can conceal their identity, they can-

• 36:58Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, yes, yes, it's taqaya. Yeah, so I can conceal and lie just to make sure I'm able to move the agenda forward.

• 37:07Speaker 00

  Okay, so it's primary, a Muslim will tell you, "No, no, taqaya is about, I can lie and conceal my, I can say I'm not a Muslim, I can become baptized, I can go to church and partake of communion, but as long as my heart is with Islam, it's okay. And I'm doing it because, because if I don't, you're gonna hurt me." But you're right.

• 37:24Patrick Bet-David?

  It's out of fear, or it's out of conviction?

• 37:27Speaker 00

  It's, well, taqaya, the word itself is even connected to the concept of fear, okay? And it's so, it's supposed to be legally, only if you feel you're under duress. Having said that, there's other, many other doctrines and elasticity that do allow Muslims to just lie in general if it's good for Islam, okay? And we can get into that. But strictly speaking, if you want to use the word taqaya, it's meant to be only when you feel like you're in danger. But that doesn't negate the fact that there's other teachings that do allow Muslims to lie in general because the infidel, because they want to defeat the infidel. Anyway, the story's almost over, so they get this, they get this, basically- A decree you can do to Kaya. So all these half million Muslims, after being threatened

• 38:10Speaker 00

  to convert to Christianity or leave, convert overnight. And they go to church and they partake of mass and communion. And this goes on decade after decade. And it reaches the point that the Christians are like, these people are better Christians than we are. But in reality, at home, they were still Muslims, they were still working to subvert Spain.

• 38:29Patrick Bet-David?

  They committed decades of their

• 38:31Speaker 00

  Decades.

• 38:31Patrick Bet-David?

  To manipulate.

• 38:33Speaker 00

  I have a quote in Sword and Scimitar from a priest, a Spanish priest, who said, these people, you know, I couldn't, we couldn't believe it. They were better Christians than us. And generation after generation, they would teach their kids how to act, how to talk to seem like ideal Christians. But at home, they were jihadists. Okay? So that went on for all

• 38:54Patrick Bet-David?

  What's the outcome of doing that?

• 38:55Speaker 00

  Well, the

• 38:56Patrick Bet-David?

  Convert them to their side, because that's

• 38:57Speaker 00

  The outcome, well, they're doing that because, like I said, in the concept of Takeda, they're allowed to stay Muslim and stay in Spain as long as their heart is still with Islam and they're working for the Islamic cause, then they can pretend to be Christians because that's what they need to do not to get kicked out. Okay, so they're doing that.

• 39:13Patrick Bet-David?

  Isn't there a risk of somebody like, remember back, the, some say the second most influential Muslim, Ghazali, or Ghazali, who, he was worried at one point where a lot of Muslims started studying math and logic and geometry and philosophy, it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, you guys are starting to, you know, when you become too logical, you're going to question what we're doing, what our motives are, we don't need that, we want you to just study Quran. So weren't they worried that some of it could rub off and they can actually truly convert to Christianity?

• 39:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's, that's been a concern then and today. Okay, so even today, someone like Sayed al-Kutb, who is one of the, you know, chief theoreticians of the Muslim Brotherhood, he's Egyptian, and he came to America in the 1950s. And he basically was scandalized by how liberal American culture was, women and men were freely talking and dancing. He goes back to Egypt and he writes all these very influential tracts. And his, a long story short, what he says is, okay, these Western people, contrary to what we thought, yes, let's learn from them, science, technology, or, you know, anything that's useful for them physically, but their culture is crap, basically. And the only true culture and civilization is to go back to Islam.

• 40:25Speaker 00

  So this has always been a concern and you find emanations of it historically as well, including in the concept of Takeda. So of course it was a fear, if, you know, well, you're going to, you're going to convert to Christianity, maybe you're going to become a real Christian, and maybe it even happened at sometimes. But to the Ulama, to the scholars, that was worth it because we want to keep a base of Muslims in this area and hopefully we can reconquer it again. And if we lose a few, you know, and they become Christian, well, that's their problem because Allah will send them to hell eventually. Okay? So anyway, finally, the Christians find this out and this is when they just expel them and say, okay, so, and by the way, this is the context of the Inquisition. Now, we hear about the Inquisition, right?

• 41:06Speaker 00

  It's this horrible, monstrous thing, and even the Inquisition itself, now, modern historians have shown you, it was actually, if you were, if you were a prisoner, you'd rather be tried by the Inquisition than by a secular court, it was more humane. But the context of the Inquisition is because you had all these people who pretended to be Christians, but they weren't, and they were working actively against the Spanish Crown. So they all got evicted. Okay? Now, I've told you this long story, but I want to now show you how it's applicable to today. All right? So let's look at the lessons. First, Islam invaded and conquered, Christians tried to fight back, it didn't work. Finally, you have the mustard seed and they start the reconquest. Okay? And it's kind of like, you know, from being, from being at a great level, you start from ground zero again, you have to build up.

• 41:51Speaker 00

  And we saw that map, right? And it took, literally, it starts in the eighth century and it doesn't end until the 16th century. So we're talking about 800 years.

• 42:00Patrick Bet-David?

  Mm-hmm.

• 42:00Speaker 00

  Okay, and all those lives lost.

• 42:02Patrick Bet-David?

  Seven million.

• 42:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 42:03Patrick Bet-David?

  Give or take.

• 42:03Speaker 00

  Exactly. I think that's a conservative number. Okay, and, and so that's what, that was the price of getting rid of Islam. And we also saw, well, but there was this other issue where kind of like, if a Muslim comes and says, no, no, I'm on your side, I'm a Christian in this context, that they could be lying and they're actively working to

• 42:21Patrick Bet-David?

  What a

• 42:22Speaker 00

  And that still goes on today, by the way.

• 42:24Patrick Bet-David?

  In Spain?

• 42:25Speaker 00

  No, all over.

• 42:26Patrick Bet-David?

  All over the world.

• 42:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, all over the place.

• 42:28Patrick Bet-David?

  Do, do Span, do Spaniards look at it as it was worth the lives of seven million? How, how did they view it?

• 42:35Speaker 00

  Well, it's, well, today, this is what's ironic, Spain, at least some of the government there, you have so many leftists, as they call them, who want to bring in Muslim migrants and, you know, Muslims are doing the same thing over again, you know, there's terrorist attacks, there's desecration of churches.

• 42:49Patrick Bet-David?

  Remember their history?

• 42:50Speaker 00

  Because in many places, it's not being taught, just like it's not being taught here. Okay, there's a concerted effort. The reason I wrote these books in many ways is because all this information has sort of been banned. You don't, when you talk about, we haven't even gotten to the Crusades, but if, if we do, how they're presented today is, is literally the opposite of what they were. And this is all intentional. I always say that, you know, fake history is much more dangerous than fake news because fake news is ephemeral, it does its mischief and then it's gone. But fake history creates these overarching narratives in our mind and we see reality through them. So that's why they're very dangerous and they've been very much weaponized. And most people, this is what I was saying, a lot of people, if you're anti-Muslim or whatever, you can, you memorize a few Quran verses and say, see, it's bad.

• 43:35Speaker 00

  But it's very hard to do it from a historical point, you have to go do all the research and know languages and this and that. But having done that, you, as I have, you'll find that, yeah, almost so much of what we're told, remember how I told you that Islam, just in the first century, what it did, it conquered literally two thirds of the Christian world? And that continued, as I showed you with the Turks and what happened. And then you get a historian like John Esposito, who I knew him in Georgetown University, well-known at the time, he recently passed away, very old at the time. But he was, you know, he's the editor of the Oxford Encyclopedia of Islam, for example. Very prestigious thing. This guy writes in one of his books called Islam, the Straight Path, he says, five centuries of peaceful coexistence between Muslims and Christians elapsed before the Crusades came

• 44:20Speaker 00

  and ruined it all. Okay? So that time that I told you about, when there was nothing but conquest, he calls that peaceful coexistence. I didn't even tell you what other, the other things that happened. In the year 1009, okay, this is now, you know, still before the First Crusade, one caliph destroyed, according to the Muslim sources, 30,000 churches, because that's how Christian that region was, Egypt and Syria. And he destroyed the Holy Sepulchre, the holiest site in Christendom, which is built over where Christ is buried and resurrected. Okay, so that's, so he calls all that peaceful coexistence. And then the problem starts with the First Crusade. Okay, so that's, this is how history has been so weaponized.

• 44:59Patrick Bet-David?

  What's, what's the pattern? So to me, you know, sometimes you hear people say, you know, they start off with being peaceful religious leaders, so then they gain power, then they use the military against you, right? Do you notice a pattern of how they do to conquer places?

• 45:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, and this is actually based on the life of Muhammad and how the Quran was revealed to him. So if you look at the Quran amongst the scholars, the Muslim scholars, they divide it into, it's one Quran, of course, but they call it, there's the Mecca Quran and the Medina Quran. What they mean by that is Muhammad's life was mostly, it begins in Mecca, this is where he's born, and then he goes to Medina, all right? And there's a difference. So when he's in Mecca, his early years, and he's preaching Islam, he's weak, he's outnumbered, he's being mocked, no, he has very, very few followers, most of them are just relatives and friends. And he has no political power whatsoever. During that time, he starts getting revelations from Allah, which are in the Quran, and this is where you get all these peaceful verses, okay?

• 46:01Speaker 00

  Nothing militant, it sounds, these are the verses that the Muslim apologists will constantly quote to you, okay? And there's, and there's so many of them. Then he goes to, and he also, you know, he wouldn't, even some of the verses are about not fighting back, sounds very Christian. Then he goes to Medina and he becomes essentially a warlord. And this is, he starts becoming more powerful. And at that point, he starts getting revelations that now if you're attacked, you can fight back. Then he gets really powerful and starts conquering various tribes, and then he gets the final revelation, which is now you have to go on the offensive. And he does go on the offensive. So even if someone doesn't attack him, you have to go conquer them. All right, now, based on that, the Ulama, the scholars have come up with two views.

• 46:46Speaker 00

  One is, it's in Arabic, it's called al-nasihul mansukh, which means the abrogated and the abrogator, which means, when you look at the Quran, because if you don't understand this, the verses contradict one another, some verses sound like pure bloodshed and murder, go slaughter. Like 9:5 is known as the sword verse, and it's just basically, whenever, you know, whenever the pagans lay in wait and ambush for them, you know, attack them, kill them and slave them. And then you have the peaceful verses that I mentioned. So they concluded that the newer revelations that came into Muhammad's life have abrogated, which is to say canceled, the older. So the final word on the matter is go on the offensive. Okay? The other view, which is very pertinent to today, is that, okay, no, the whole Quran still applies depending on your situation.

• 47:29Speaker 00

  So if you find yourself in Muhammad's situation, when he was in Mecca, outnumbered and surrounded by infidels, yeah, you can preach the tolerant verses. If you find yourself now in a position where you're stronger, then yeah, you should go on the offensive and do the jihad. Okay? And this actually has been unwavering, I've seen this all the time. In Syria, I remember when ISIS came about in Iraq, you had all these multiple stories of Christians who basically said, we lived side by side with our Muslim neighbors for, you know, generations, we've known each other, we used to help them and take care of them because they were poor, the Muslims. And the moment ISIS came, they completely betrayed them and, you know, they put, remember the noon, like the end for Nasr, a Christian, they went and put it on the houses to identify where the infidel Christian lives.

• 48:14Speaker 00

  And this isn't just one account, it's multiple accounts. So, and this goes back to another idea in Islam, which is circumstance. Circumstance dictates behavior. So if you're weak and outnumbered, I'll, I'll close with a funny story I've given before. And it was with me and a Muslim colleague, when I worked at the Library of Congress, you know, 20 years ago. And I basically, I had this, I was learning this stuff and I was telling him and he was like, always moderate, claiming to be moderate, but I saw a radical streak in him, I know better. And he would tell me, I told him about, whoa, what about abrogation, what about this? And the final word is you're supposed to do jihad and this and that. And finally, he got frustrated and I, and I made the point, I said, the Mecca verses are tolerant, but the Medina, say, and then he threw his hands up and said, yeah, but

• 48:59Speaker 00

  I'm in Mecca. So his point is, I'm in the circumstances of when Muhammad was in Mecca, weak and outnumbered. So of course I'm talking this way.

• 49:06Patrick Bet-David?

  I got, what an interesting thing to say. So when outnumbered, seemed peaceful.

• 49:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 49:12Patrick Bet-David?

  And, okay, so do you see a pattern of the same strategy that they took in America or, you know, parts of the West taking place right now?

• 49:24Speaker 00

  What's happening now is, I don't, there's no historical precedent to it. Because historically, what happened is the Muslims would come and nobody was gonna capitulate to them. Okay, uh, let's talk about the West, for example. Okay, the Christians of the West fought back, right? This is, this is what these books are. These are all constant warfare, constant battles, you know, constant bloodshed and non, you know, non-stop war. Spain is just one of the microcosms, like I said, but it's all around. What's happening now, though, and we go back to this, you're questioning like, how do our mind change? It, it, it's, it's all being enabled, okay? So, for example, I'll give you an idea.

• 50:03Speaker 00

  The word jihad, jihad in Arabic, it used to be that people would translate it simply as holy war. Old Orientalists, as they were known, scholars, they would just translate jihad into holy war. And that made sense because that's what it was. It was warfare in the name of Islam. But you will always get a lot of Muslim apologists who'll tell you, ah, you guys don't understand Arabic. It doesn't mean holy war. It means striving, struggling, you know, for a good endeavor, striving to do something. And they're absolutely right, but that also really underscores how dangerous jihad is. Because so historically, if you wanna strive for Islam, you could only do it through holy war. Because nobody was gonna just give in to you, okay? But there's, there's always been other forms of jihad, other forms of struggling.

• 50:46Speaker 00

  And they have, they gave them, you know, jihad al-lassan, that means jihad of the tongue, which means lying. Uh, jihad al-kalam, jihad of the pen, which means propaganda. Jihad al-mal, jihad of money, which means I'm a rich Saudi, I, I, I finance, uh, you know, jihadist organizations. And they even have a baby jihad, which is basically overwhelm and flood the world with babies, all of them named Muhammad, which, and if you look now in Europe, uh, you have various capital cities, then the, the number one newborn baby name is Muhammad, okay? So, but that wouldn't have happened historically because that requires, in this case, the West to be so appeasing and accommodating. So, Europe would have not done that. Christendom did not do that. Nobody did that. It's the Indians and the Persians didn't do it.

• 51:32Speaker 00

  Everyone fought back. But it's happening now and, and this, you know, the, the soft jihad is actually being successful only because the brains of Western people have been so addled and, you know, primed to accept it. To accept, to, to be naive and just accept anything and, you know, oh, he, he just wants his religion. Oh, who am I, you know, all, all that sort of thing has made it very ripe for that particular soft jihad to become even more dangerous than the hard jihad. We're not worried about Muslims conquering America with swords. It's not gonna happen, but it's happening through stealth, uh, surreptitiously, and through all these various other forms of jihad lies, propaganda.

• 52:08Patrick Bet-David?

  You don't think they have any intention of long-term taking over US?

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  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 53:43Speaker 04

  How many discounts does USAA Auto Insurance offer? Too many to say here. Multi-vehicle discount, safe driver discount, uh, new vehicle discount, storage discount?

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• 53:59Speaker 06

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• 54:28Speaker 07

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• 55:12Speaker 07

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• 55:33Speaker 00

  No, no, they would, they would love to conquer by the sword, but how?

• 55:37Patrick Bet-David?

  What would, how would they do it?

• 55:38Speaker 00

  The conquest, you mean?

• 55:39Patrick Bet-David?

  Yes.

• 55:40Speaker 00

  Well, so the, and here's the thing, keep in mind, you know, we talked a little bit about history, and it's important to remember because when you look at these countries, okay, nobody would have thought Egypt would have been Muslim. Egypt was more Christian than Europe. No one would have thought Turkey, Asia Minor, would become Turkey, okay? And these things happened very slowly and gradually, and through conquest and slow conversions because the Christians or whoever was being subjugated got tired of paying tribute or couldn't afford it, or got tired of being mistreated, and they all converted. So, you have to remember that this, the jihad, the conquest, this is not an overnight thing. It, it, if you step back and zoom out and you look, it's a very slow, gradual thing. Now, in the West, it's happening through, like I said, a sort of replacement, a demographic change.

• 56:24Speaker 00

  Uh, I think it's more noticeable, let's, let's talk maybe about Europe, Western Europe, where, okay, for the longest time historically, as I show in these books, the Muslims tried to conquer Europe through force, and they got very far. In the West, they got to France. In the East, they got to Vienna, right, in 1683. America's first war, keep in mind, as a nation after independence, was with Muslims, who were operating exactly like ISIS, but pirates, they're known as Barbary Pirates. And they actually, um, would capture American vessels, sailors, and slave their crew. And I have a great quote in my book. Thomas Jefferson, at the time, was an ambassador, and he met, him and John Adams, they met with, um, one of the ambassadors from Barbary, and to try to negotiate a release of the American sailors.

• 57:07Speaker 00

  And, uh, Thomas Jefferson, he writes a letter to Congress describing what happened in the meeting. And he says, "We told this guy, the ambassador, one Abdul something, uh, that can't, why don't we just cooperate? Let's be friends, we can do trade and business, you know, why are you attacking us?" And literally, this guy says, "Because our holy book, the Quran, calls you an infidel. Our holy prophet Muhammad says..."

• 57:26Patrick Bet-David?

  That was Jefferson.

• 57:27Speaker 00

  Yes. "We have to attack you, enslave you." He basically paraphrases that verse I told you, Quran 9:5.

• 57:32Patrick Bet-David?

  Where's that documented, this exchange with Jefferson?

• 57:34Speaker 00

  Well, it's in my book, I can read it to you, but it's, it's in Congress, they have it. It's a letter that he sent.

• 57:39Patrick Bet-David?

  And you found this in the Library of Congress?

• 57:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, it's, no, no, it's, I can, you want me to read you a paragraph?

• 57:44Patrick Bet-David?

  Absolutely.

• 57:45Speaker 00

  I'll read you a little paragraph, um, because, and why I think this is very interesting is because, you know, people don't realize that, uh, you know, even, here it is. Alright, so Jefferson John Adams, they met with Tripoli's ambassador to Britain, Abdul Rahman, in an effort to ransom the enslaved Americans and establish peaceful relations. So in a letter to Congress dated March 28, 1786, we still have the letter, the American ambassadors laid out the source of what was provoking the animosity of these Muslims, the Barbary States. So he writes, quote, this is Jefferson talking now, "We took the liberty to make some inquiries concerning the grounds of their pretensions to make war upon nations

• 58:24Speaker 00

  who had done them no injury, and we observed that we considered all mankind as our friends, who had done us no wrong, nor had given us any provocation." "The ambassador answered us that it was founded on the laws of their prophet, that it was written in their Quran, that all nations who should not acknowledge their authority were sinners." He probably used the word kaf or infidel. "That it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as prisoners, and that every Muslim who should be slain in battle was sure to go to paradise." Now, that's pure ISIS, right?

• 58:56Patrick Bet-David?

  And what year is this?

• 58:57Speaker 00

  This is 1786.

• 58:58Patrick Bet-David?

  That's unbelievable.

• 59:00Speaker 00

  This is well over a thousand years since the jihad that I describe in this book. This is why it's at the end. And here you have the same exact logic that ISIS would say, and that we're told today, "Oh, that's not Islamic." It permeates the whole book, right? From the very beginning, this is how the Muslims were talking to the Byzantine Emperor. Muhammad talked to him this way, and here we are at the end, literally 1,200 years later, and they're still talking that way. And what I very, most people are not aware of this, but if you look up Quran 9:5, that is what this man, which is the sword verse, that is what this Muslim was paraphrasing. Okay, because he says that, you know, "The ambassador answered us that it was founded on the laws of the prophet written in the Quran, that all nations who don't acknowledge their authority were sinners."

• 59:45Speaker 00

  That means if you're a non-Muslim and you don't submit, you're a sinner, you're an infidel. And here it is, "That it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as prisoners." And here's Quran 9:5, commands, "When the sacred months have passed, kill the polytheists wherever you find them, capture them, besiege them, and sit and wait for them at every place in ambush." So he was paraphrasing the sword verse, which, as I was telling you, is the one that has abrogated all the peaceful verses. So you see how ironclad this is from the beginning to the end, but we've lost this knowledge. They don't want to, people don't know this anymore. And we're told an opposite story. We haven't even begun to talk about the Crusades. And that, for example, has been so demonized through the fake history to make Christians feel like they owe Muslims.

• 1:00:28Patrick Bet-David?

  What did you major in? What was your major in?

• 1:00:30Speaker 00

  History.

• 1:00:30Patrick Bet-David?

  History?

• 1:00:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:00:31Patrick Bet-David?

  And specifically Islam or history?

• 1:00:34Speaker 00

  Well, my master's thesis was Islam and Christendom and Christianity.

• 1:00:37Patrick Bet-David?

  Did any professor in school teach you this exchange with Jefferson, or you had to find out about it later on when you went to the library?

• 1:00:43Speaker 00

  No, no, almost everything I found is my own research. If it was when I was in Georgetown especially, they were trying to teach a very fluffy version of Islam. In fact, I had some conflicts there, Georgetown. When I was Victor Davis Hansen Fresno State, there was more freedom of thought there. But when I went to Georgetown, I didn't understand this at the time. I was very young. I didn't understand about how politically correct and wokeism permeates. But Georgetown especially was, you know, getting, I think it still does, millions of dollars from Saudis. So it was very much compromised, and they did not like what I was saying and what I was writing. And I would get reprimanded. I still got As, you know, but that's one of the reasons I had enough and essentially stopped going there.

• 1:01:20Patrick Bet-David?

  So again, if you're going back to the West, right, if there, if Qatar is spending 7.4 billion dollars into our universities, China's number two has 6.3 billion, right?

• 1:01:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:01:29Patrick Bet-David?

  What are they trying to do? Are they trying to rewrite history? Because when you think about the model of communism, what is the first thing that they do? They get rid of all the books and they get rid of any material that says anything bad about communism, and they keep anything that says anything good about it, right? So there's a similar model that some say, you know, communists took that playbook from Islam when they came in, right?

• 1:01:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:01:52Patrick Bet-David?

  Was there, was there a moment where, you know, you're asking yourself, what's their motive? How are they seeing this money that they're putting in? Is there an outcome? If I make an investment into a property and I'm buying 1,000 acres of land in a city in Arkansas, I have to have an outcome. I'm planning on building XYZ. Why are they spending so much money? What is their outcome?

• 1:02:14Speaker 00

  Well, especially when you realize, okay, I mean, here I'm looking at Saudi Prince, you know, donates 40 million, okay. Think of the culture and the society and the civilization of Saudi Arabia, okay? Very draconian, very Sharia-minded, okay? Or Qatar, same thing, or China, they're not Sharia, but these are not, these are not patrons of the arts, okay? These are not people who just want intellectual freedom to flow, and they're just giving money. Obviously, they're giving money for a reason, because they want to influence what's being taught, okay? And that, that's what I was telling you about Georgetown. I experienced it firsthand because it was receiving, I'm looking at it right now, it got nearly 1.1 billion from the Qatari government since 2005. And I was there actually, right around 2000, I think, four, when they were getting even more money.

• 1:02:59Speaker 00

  So that impacts obviously how they present Islam. And how do they present it? Well, I just showed you that John Esposito, he was the head of that center, and he's the one who says, "Oh, before the first crusade..."

• 1:03:11Patrick Bet-David?

  Got along.

• 1:03:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:03:12Patrick Bet-David?

  Five centuries.

• 1:03:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, before the first crusade, Muslims and Christians were living in peace and harmony, when it's actually was, it was like, like I said, ISIS on steroids for three, four centuries.

• 1:03:22Patrick Bet-David?

  Let me ask you, if we just judge it based on success, one has to say they've been successful. If you just judge it on success of expansion, one would say they've been successful. So now the question becomes, the founder of it is Prophet Muhammad. How has he been so successful at spreading his message worldwide?

• 1:03:44Speaker 00

  You know, I think, I think what makes Islam very successful, and this isn't an original idea to me, it's actually a lot of Christian theologians historically, not today, but I mentioned them in the books, was basically the genius of Muhammad is that he basically created a religion that catered to man's most primordial desires and lusts, okay? So he basically created a religion that, so this is what they would say. They would say that, the Christians would say, "The reason Islam is so popular amongst these people is it's the easy religion." Today, we have the conception that it's so hard. It's actually not. It was easy because, okay, all you have to do is say a few words. Now you can be a pirate and a plunderer, and you can go fight, and you can go kill, and you can rape, and you can enslave, okay?

• 1:04:28Speaker 00

  And you could get rich, and you either get all that, and if you die, well, you get the same stuff in heaven, because you're going to go straight to heaven, okay? The greatest martyr is the one who dies in the jihad, and he goes to heaven where he has non-stop sex with supernatural women known as Al-Hurri's, okay? And this is all in the Quran, this is Islamic doctrine. So with the simple Bedouin mentality and other nomadic people, this was very appealing. And also, the other genius of Muhammad is what he did is he took his tribalism, right? Arabia 7th century immensely tribal. And he re-articulated it in a way that he basically threw a theological paradigm. So tribalism is, you know, you and me, okay, we're brothers, and everyone's our enemy, right?

• 1:05:11Speaker 00

  And that's tribalism, we're one tribe, and everyone out is, we're hostile against him. And it keeps extending, and you and me, and well, then our cousins also, and et cetera, okay? So he took that idea, which was just innate to tribal peoples like the Arabs, but he changed it subtly, and he said, "Okay, so now that your loyalty," and that's the word in the Quran, wala, "is to fellow Muslims. And as far as non-Muslims, you have to hate them, and you have to disavow them, even if they're your fathers, and your brothers, and your sons, and your wives." And he said, "This is in the Quran." Okay, so he made a very distinct line, just like tribalism does. Tribalism is very distinct, it's us against them. But now us became Muslims, the Ummah as it's known, and them became the Kufar.

• 1:05:56Speaker 00

  And it didn't matter if they're your relatives or not. You know, many caliphs and companions of Muhammad in the various wars were praised because they killed their relatives who were not Muslim, because that's what made them enemies. So that idea became very popular and very, it resonated with pagan tribal peoples. So first the Arabs, but then the Turks also, who came from the steppes, like I said, these are nomads. And also lots of the Mongols, not all of them, but some of them converted to Islam, the Berbers in North Africa. So the idea was that these nomadic people, nothing changed, because their life was about raiding the other, enslaving and killing, right, and plundering. So Islam gave them, gave those peoples the same right to do all that, so it fit very normally.

• 1:06:40Speaker 00

  And at the same time, it was even better, because now, "Oh, if I die, I'm a holy martyr, and I get more of this in paradise." And whereas to be a Christian was hard. Christianity, you're supposed to curtail your violent impulses. You're not supposed to go rape and that sort of thing. So that I think is one of the reason that explains its popularity then and now.

• 1:07:01Patrick Bet-David?

  It's weird to just have that make it this big. But who was Prophet Muhammad?

• 1:07:06Speaker 00

  Who was he?

• 1:07:06Patrick Bet-David?

  Who was he?

• 1:07:07Speaker 00

  Well, he was, uh, he was born from the Qudiyish clan in the dates that are given for him are 570. He's born there. He was an orphan raised by his uncle. Um, and then, you know, sometime around, I think 610, he starts, uh, getting, uh, um, revelations. So he supposedly goes to a cave where the angel Gabriel appears to him and tells him Ikra, and which means recite. Okay? Um, now it means read, but it meant basically recite because he was ignorant or illiterate. And, um, he would supposedly recite what Gabriel was telling him, which became the Quran. I'm giving you the Muslim version because the non-Muslim version, the scholarly Western version says, uh, all of that is nonsense. There's even one theory that Muhammad never

• 1:07:51Speaker 00

  existed, that he was made up by Arabs because they needed some backstory for themselves. I personally believe, I, I, by and large, I believe the Islamic traditional.

• 1:08:01Patrick Bet-David?

  What is the, so what is the Western, if you want to go a little bit deeper, what is the Western, uh, uh, idea of, uh, who Prophet Muhammad was?

• 1:08:08Speaker 00

  Well, it's, it's not consistent. Some would agree with the traditional Muslim. I think most people would. But there's different theories about, okay, well, actually, because if you look at the traditional Islamic canon, we have so much information about Muhammad. The Hadith is supposed to be what he said and what he did, and people recorded it through oral traditions, and then it gets sifted for its authenticity. And there's like literally volumes, thousands and thousands of pages of what he said and what he did. Okay. Now, and there's the Sira, which is the biography of Muhammad, also very thick and compendious. Now, if you take all that at face value, then we know more about Muhammad than anyone from the seventh century, that's for sure. But modern Western historians will tell you

• 1:08:50Speaker 00

  a lot of that is just not accurate. It was, some of it is outright forgery. And one fringe school of thought says he, he never even existed. Okay. That this, he was made up. I don't.

• 1:09:00Patrick Bet-David?

  How was he able to persuade and win over so many people? What was his tactic?

• 1:09:05Speaker 00

  Well, his tactic, his initial tactic. Okay. So it didn't.

• 1:09:09Patrick Bet-David?

  Not his enemies, to his, to his allies, to his followers.

• 1:09:12Speaker 00

  Well, okay. So as we saw when he was in Mecca, he didn't persuade much of anyone because he had no power. So it was only when he became powerful that he was able to persuade people. And he persuaded them by literally putting the sword to their throat and saying, "Join me or die." I mean, that's what it was. To be a Muslim, the, the word Muslim, it's an Arabic word and Islam, you know, now they have a pious veneer. Oh, I'm a Muslim in Islam. All I mean, Islam just meant it comes from the same Arabic word for submit. Okay? And a Muslim is one who has submitted. Well, what are you submitting to? Well, initially you were submitting to the sword of Muhammad. You were saying, okay, I'm going to join your bandwagon. I'm going to work for you. You're my captain. Okay. But it also came to mean, in, in the Islamic context, I'm submitting to Allah through Muhammad because

• 1:09:56Speaker 00

  Muhammad's his representative. He's his viceroy. He's the spokesman for Allah. So, so Islam means submit to, to Allah, which in effect meant submit to Muhammad. And a Muslim is someone who submits to Allah, which again, in effect means he's submitting to the teachings of Muhammad. Okay. So there was nothing really special or pious or holy about that word. Um, and only now we ascribe that, that to it.

• 1:10:18Patrick Bet-David?

  It's very hard for me to believe that a, a simpleton man like that with the sword build the, the second biggest religion in the world. It's very hard to comprehend.

• 1:10:27Speaker 00

  Well, uh, it depends on the paradigm.

• 1:10:29Patrick Bet-David?

  Like, you know, sometime when you see pictures of, uh, Jesus and he looks like a white guy, just a nice guy. What a nice guy. He would never lose his, you know, he would never go do anything. And then there's documentation of what he looks like. And this guy was a driver. He was intense. He had certain moments that he would push people around. You're not just going to be a peaceful man at that era. And that's all it was for. You had to be tough. So what, what do we as Westerners get wrong about Prophet Muhammad? Because we have our own set of blind spots.

• 1:10:59Speaker 02

  This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required. Compatibility and availability varies 18 plus.

• 1:11:24Speaker 03

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 1:11:53Speaker 04

  How many discounts does USAA Auto Insurance offer? Too many to say here. Multi-vehicle discount, safe driver discount, uh, new vehicle discount, storage discount.

• 1:12:02Speaker 05

  How many discounts will you stack up? Tap the banner or visit usaa.com slash auto discounts. Restrictions apply.

• 1:12:08Speaker 06

  Your credit card company is hoping you don't hear this. They're charging you 21% APR interest, making it hard to pay down your balance. A home equity loan from Rocket Mortgage could cut your interest rate by more than half, so you could wipe out your high-interest credit card debt with the equity you've built in your home without touching your current mortgage rate. See how much you could save at rocketmortgage.com. Rocket Mortgage LLC, licensed in 50 states. NMLS, consumeraccess.org, number 3030. Call 8004ROCKET for full program details.

• 1:12:38Speaker 07

  Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability. And it all starts with a great deal from your local Toyota dealer. Make a smart buy on an all-wheel-drive Camry, Corolla Cross, or get a Corolla sedan, packed with the latest features, advanced tech, and head-turning style. Or take a test drive in two of Toyota's most popular SUVs, the spacious, family-friendly Grand Highlander and adventure-ready RAV4. And with so many hybrid and plug-in hybrid models available across the lineup, plus efficient all-electrics like the BZ, BZ Woodland, and all-wheel-drive CHR, you can drive your way and skip the pump. And long after you leave the lot, your Toyota keeps delivering. With legendary resale value, built on a reputation for quality and reliability,

• 1:13:22Speaker 07

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• 1:13:39Speaker 00

  Uh, well, I don't get anything wrong, and I don't think you are, but we, as in Westerners in general, again, it's the, our blind spots is, okay, of, I think, again, the main premise is this total misunderstanding of history and seeing the opposite of the truth. Okay, so the idea is, okay, if there's anyone bad, it's Christianity, okay? This has been ingrained in our thoughts, as we mentioned earlier. And if any, you know, it's also connected, have you, are you familiar with the noble savage myth? So this is, this comes into being, it's basically when Americans or Europeans are entering America and colonizing it, and before long, the natives, the Indians, Native Americans, become romanticized. And amongst people, they're the noble savage,

• 1:14:24Speaker 00

  which is, yes, they're, you know, they're impoverished, they're poor, but they live off the land, they're honorable, they're clean, you know, they're not corrupt. And I think that, so that idea has also come to, I think, apply to every non-Western person. If you're brown, or black, or yellow, you have this sort of romanticized veneer, which I think also applies to Islam, the way it's presented often. So all of these, you know, like I said, these warped ideas have just become solidified in our head. And, you know, we, in 1999, a group of, because it was the 1,000, it was, I think, the 1,000 anniversary of the conquest of Jerusalem by the Crusaders, which was in 1099.

• 1:15:07Speaker 00

  And so I don't know, I guess that would make it 900 years. Anyway, a bunch of Germans, Christians, did a mass walking pilgrimage to the Islamic world, wearing shirts in Arabic, saying, "I'm sorry." Okay, because they're apologizing for the First Crusade. And again, so that just shows you, they have no idea what the First Crusade is. I didn't get into the point that the First Crusade was actually a response to one of the worst emanations of Islamic atrocities against Christians that were going on at the time. Okay, so people don't know that, and they feel we have to be accommodating to the other, we have to be nice to Muslims, look what we've done to them historically. And it's actually the opposite. It's Muslims did horrible things to you historically, and those evil Crusaders were actually trying to right that wrong. So a lot of it, like I said, is historical amnesia,

• 1:15:51Speaker 00

  but it's also these warped philosophies that come especially into the 60s, you know, left, what we call the left, okay? Which is just this, you know, kind of Western civilization, Christianity, that's the source of all evil, and everyone else is good, and now it's our job to make up for it and apologize. What do they fear? What does the religion of Islam fears that the world figures out? What is their enemy? What is their fear? I think at this point, it's just amazing. I think the Muslims have so much contempt for Western people. I'll give you an example. It used to be when you have Christians and Muslims have like an interfaith dialogue, the Muslims would come and they would talk about, they would use the Mecca Quran, okay? They would quote the peaceful, tolerant, favorable verses.

• 1:16:36Speaker 00

  Just a few days ago this month, in Belgium, a church, Catholic church invites, invites a Muazin, you know, a Muslim, to recite from the Quran right before Holy Mass for them, okay? And I listened to it in Arabic, and he literally chose a verse that's all about attacking idolatry and saying it's evil. And these Christians, probably if they know what he's saying, will think, "Yallah, I agree with you, idolatry is evil." They don't realize that he's actually pointing to the crosses, the statues, the icons in that Catholic church. And he's basically making a statement. So my point is, Muslims have become very emboldened. And it's, it's, it's just, it's a reaction to how craven Christians have become.

• 1:17:20Speaker 00

  I call it doormat Christianity. It's this idea that to be a Christian, I have to just lay down and... But what do they fear? They have to fear... The Muslims? Muslims. What do they fear? What is their concern? What do they worry that they don't want you to know about? Well, I think they fear that Westerners wake up. If Westerners wake up and know what I know, what I'm saying, yeah, that won't go well for them. Simply because it's so easy, like I said, physically and materially, they're weak right now. I'll give you an example, okay, you're probably familiar in Europe of all the, you know, the problems that Western Europe is having with Muslim migrants and Muslims in general. In Great Britain, in France, in Sweden, in Germany. You know, Sweden has become like the rape capital of the West.

• 1:18:04Speaker 00

  And in all those countries, crimes have just skyrocketed, based on the influx of Muslims, okay? But guess what? There's countries that like Hungary and Poland that don't have this problem whatsoever. Why? Is it because Muslims didn't want to invade them? No, it's because those governments said, no, thanks, we don't want it. So it was that simple. So if, this is what I mean, we're still in a point where Islam is actually weak. But if Western leaders and Western-

• 1:18:31Patrick Bet-David?

  You think they're weak right now?

• 1:18:32Speaker 00

  Physically, of course. Imagine if the Western world had a jihadist mentality and said, okay, we aren't war- I know, but I'm saying if they did, they could obliterate the Islamic world. I know, and I don't want it to happen.

• 1:18:43Patrick Bet-David?

  That won't, that won't happen. So then, which of the denominations of Christianity are more aware of the history than others? And which one is a little bit naive?

• 1:18:54Speaker 00

  If I were to put them in order, I would say the Orthodox is the best aware. Then second would be the Catholic, and then the third would be the Protestant. And the reason for that is the Orthodox are the ones who literally live very, are neighbors to Muslims. Eastern Europe, right? Greece, these are countries, Russia, that dealt with the, you know, the brunt of the Islamic invasions. If you look at Egypt and Syria, those are Orthodox Christians. Armenia is Orthodox, okay? So they know, you know, they know all about it. The Catholics, because they have a long historical memory, and most of the wars and the crusades were Catholics, of course. So they too understood Islam. In this book, Defenders of the West, I chronicle eight lives, the lives of eight Christians.

• 1:19:37Speaker 00

  And I didn't, I didn't pick it intentionally, I just wanted to get the best, you know, heroes, as I call them. And seven of the eight are Catholic, okay, so. But that's because that was it, you know, Catholicism was really at war. The Protestants, like I said, they're the latest, they're the newcomer. And the problem is, part of their, you know, their founding stories is to, that Catholicism is horrible. And therefore, the enemies of the Catholics maybe were actually not so bad. Who are they? Well, they were the Muslims. And like I said, this is why even in the early years, you had Protestants working hand in hand with Muslims. This is why I also believe if you look at historically Protestant nations, they're the ones with the biggest Muslim problem. Right? Britain, Scandinavia, Sweden, Germany, they, they really have the issue.

• 1:20:22Speaker 00

  And I think it's because they're the most clueless about Islam. So, but again, there's good ones in all the religions, there's, there's smart Protestants and there's-

• 1:20:31Patrick Bet-David?

  Who gets them the most? Forget about not Christianity, who gets them, who knows their playbook and their vision the most? Out of all the religions in the world? Who understands them the most?

• 1:20:45Speaker 00

  Well, themselves, obviously.

• 1:20:46Patrick Bet-David?

  Outside of them?

• 1:20:47Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:20:48Patrick Bet-David?

  Out of all the religions? Out of all the religions in the world, who is out there to say, we know exactly what their playbook is? We know exactly what they're doing?

• 1:20:56Speaker 00

  I would probably say Jews know best.

• 1:20:59Patrick Bet-David?

  Tell me why.

• 1:21:00Speaker 00

  Well, I mean, they have their issues with them, they live in the area. They're, they tend to be smarter in general, not naive. Again, I'm not, it's a sweeping statement to make about a whole people. But if, if I were to say one religious group that gets, but of course, there's liberal Jews as well, who, who, who, who would say the exact opposite, no, we love Islam, okay? But if you're asking me if I have to pick, it wouldn't, you know, it wouldn't be the Christians. Well, like I said, it might be the Orthodox, might be the Catholics. Not their hierarchy, especially the Catholic hierarchy, because it's very pro-Islamic, it's very diplomatic. But if I talk to a Catholic, they know. Okay, if I talk to an Orthodox, they know. But I also think if I talk to a Jew, they know too.

• 1:21:46Patrick Bet-David?

  I wonder, I wonder what-

• 1:21:47Speaker 00

  And Hindus too. I mean, there's a lot of Hindus who, like I told you, there was that, yeah, Hindus, there was that massive-

• 1:21:53Patrick Bet-David?

  Tell me more.

• 1:21:54Speaker 00

  There was that massive bloodbath, there, there's no people who suffered more and were massacred more in the name of jihad than the Hindus. Over the centuries. So, they, they too know a lot about this. But again, it's, it's hard to make a, you know, categorical statement about a whole people. But you, you'll find amongst them a lot who are-

• 1:22:13Patrick Bet-David?

  Best case scenario, worst case scenario, what happens by 2050? Twenty-five years from now, what happens?

• 1:22:18Speaker 00

  Well, if you look at, you know, Pew, Pew polls and about demographic changes, it shows that even if you stop migration in certain Muslim, German, certain European countries, there's gonna be eventually a Muslim, a significant massive population. And it's gonna essentially possibly even be the majority of certain countries. I think Germany was one that I remember seeing in one, one study that said something like by 2070 would be like half Muslim. And the thing is, game over at that point, all right? At that point, it's, let's put it this way, places like, like Britain have, I don't know, they say less than 10 million, 10%, they say. I think, let's say 10%.

• 1:23:02Speaker 00

  And look at the problems that are happening there. So if that reaches, if that becomes 50%, yeah, I think they're done, okay? Because first of all, they're not allowed to fight back, they don't want to fight back, a lot of them. They've already capitulated one way or other, demoralized. And the Muslims are very aggressive, very assertive, very confident. Okay, so just 20, 30% would be a game changer, so something like 50. So that's why even Muslims themselves boast and say, we don't have to do anything except just keep having sex and have babies. That's one of their claims, okay, and-

• 1:23:32Patrick Bet-David?

  Are they wrong?

• 1:23:33Speaker 00

  No, they're not wrong. Because again, again, the problem is too many Western people are myopic, they just, they care about the moment. And they look at things and go, it's not that bad. But if you, like I said, I, I'm a historian, I look at things from a long view. And know that these conquests that I'm talking about, and a lot of them didn't happen overnight. It was gradual, it took centuries of infiltration and subversion. And that's exactly what we're seeing today. But people, because again, they're fixated on the moment, they can't step back. They're not thinking about what's gonna happen to their children, grandchildren, great grandchildren.

• 1:24:05Patrick Bet-David?

  So mathematically, purely mathematically, it's inevitable that it eventually happens? Mathematically?

• 1:24:12Speaker 00

  Well, Western people are in a decline, birth rate, okay? And Muslims are having a lot. So math, yeah, mathematically, given enough time, and that's why there's, they boast that we will conquer you without anything, we're just gonna take over, overwhelm you.

• 1:24:27Patrick Bet-David?

  There's nothing you can do about it.

• 1:24:28Speaker 00

  Well, I mean, there's, like I mentioned, there's the countries that just can say, we don't want you here, like Hungary and Poland, that was something to do. But these Western countries, even if they stop migration, a lot of them want remigration. I don't think that's very plausible, I don't think they have the spine to do something like that. So they're always gonna have a Muslim population there, which is probably gonna be outbreeding them. Which means, yes, it might take a long time, maybe 100 years. But just based on that alone, without them doing anything illegal, they will take over.

• 1:24:55Patrick Bet-David?

  Where, where have they failed the most to try to infiltrate? What countries and why?

• 1:25:00Speaker 00

  Muslims?

• 1:25:00Patrick Bet-David?

  Muslims. So think China, Russia, where have they failed to infiltrate?

• 1:25:04Speaker 00

  Basically everywhere, everywhere, the only place this is happening is in the West. The West has been primed for this, it's been so weakened, it's, it's amazing. I was, I was in Greece, and they were telling me, all these Muslims come there. And I thought they, they would have a, you know, Islamic migration problem. But he was telling me, no, it's not so bad, because they come there, they don't want to stay there, they want to go to Germany. They want to go to a Scandinavian country, they want to go to Belgium, because that's where they can get all the money. And they're gonna, so it's not just that they're, these aren't refugees just hoping to make it to some Western country. They have a plan, they want to go to the rich country that's gonna give them everything they want, okay? So that kind of situation doesn't exist outside the West. There's no non-Western nation that's gonna do that for Muslims, and that's why they don't go there. Okay, that's why they're going to the West, because it's just ripe for conquest.

• 1:25:49Speaker 00

  It's doing everything possible to kill itself. And the Muslims, I, I don't know, I can't blame them, they're exploiting the situation to their advantage.

• 1:25:56Patrick Bet-David?

  Have they failed in China, have they failed in Japan, have they failed in some of those countries? And if yes, why?

• 1:26:02Speaker 00

  If you're comparing it to what's happening in the West, absolutely, they failed. And the reason why is because those countries are not idiots. They're not naive, they're not gonna be taken over by the soft jihad, the one about, oh, human rights, and oh, we have to help Muslims, oh, look at our crimes historically. They don't think that way, okay, because they're normal, their brain hasn't been addled by generations of-

• 1:26:22Patrick Bet-David?

  You're saying they're normal?

• 1:26:23Speaker 00

  Of course.

• 1:26:24Patrick Bet-David?

  Tell me more.

• 1:26:24Speaker 00

  Because they're not, they don't think the way we think. Which is, not we, you and me, the Western way, which is, it's my job to take in, you know, millions of Muslims, and it's my job to appease them, and it's my job to suppress my religion and culture and heritage, lest I offend them. Nobody outside the West thinks that way, okay? Especially Muslims, of course. And that's why the West is dying. And that's why China doesn't have this problem, India's not gonna have this problem. It's only in the West that Muslims are focused, because that is the weak victim that is easily exploited.

• 1:26:57Patrick Bet-David?

  Can you go a little bit deeper? Why they failed to expand in countries like China and India?

• 1:27:02Speaker 00

  Because, okay, and this goes back to what I'm saying, Muslims are weak. Which means they're not gonna expand in any of these countries the way they did historically. The way Islam expanded historically was with the sword, okay? That was it. And now, a country like China or India, they're not, they can't go in with the sword and conquer. So, and, but they can't do that in the West either. So why are they doing it in the West and not in China? Because the West is allowing them. And this is one of my main mantras. Everything that's happening to the West by Muslims is 100% being enabled. And the ways being paid for them by Western policy, by Western politicians, by the Western, by the academics,

• 1:27:40Speaker 00

  who prime our mind into thinking this way, being receptive to and apologetic to, and wanting to appease Islam. All of that, none of that exists outside the West. It's, it's insanity, actually.

• 1:27:53Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, this, this concept, I read somewhere where they, they try to, and I'm trying to see if it was Japan or if it was China, they tried to spread the word and they tried to expand and there was no interest and it wouldn't land at all.

• 1:28:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:28:09Patrick Bet-David?

  Culture like, ah, there's nothing we can do with the Japanese people. I don't, I don't know which one it was, it was one of them. And I wonder why, is it more the pride? Is it more knowing? Is it more like, this is not a serious religion? Or is it, what the reasoning is why?

• 1:28:24Speaker 00

  It's because those people have pride, confidence, and a desire to maintain their own civilization. Okay? The Chinese, it's only in the West that you have this idea that I have to accommodate the other. Okay? You're, so in the West, oh, I have to give you the same rights, you have to have your mosques, oh, I better not talk about Christmas, I might offend you, oh, I better not do this, that. Okay, that mentality, which is sick, doesn't exist outside the West. You're not gonna go to China and say, oh, I expect you guys, you know, don't offend me and you, you have to like, make room for my ways. Nobody's gonna do that. Muslims are not gonna do that for you. Okay, Hindus are not gonna do that for you, and rightfully so. So, the problem is that these countries, because Islam is inherently weak, on the one

• 1:29:07Speaker 00

  hand, and these countries, oh, this is our way, this is our country, what do you want? And Islam can't force its way, it makes no inroads. In the West, Islam is again inherently weak, but the West is, is weak, um, on a metaphysical level, which means they just, they, they're, they're capitulating, left and right. Okay? There was another, if you're, if you're not aware, in the Church of England, the Anglican Church, just a couple of weeks ago, they give, they gave an award, some, uh, about cooperation and tolerance or something, and the award's named after a crusader, alright? And they gave it to a Muslim cleric on 9/11, the ceremony was on 9/11, September 11, and this cleric, it turns out, wait, this cleric, it turns out, was a fan of Bin Laden, and praised Bin Laden.

• 1:29:52Speaker 00

  Okay? And it was only after a massive backlash that the, you know, like a week later, they took the award back from him. But, uh, this is what I mean, and, and the Archbishop is a woman, of course. This is what I mean by, the West is just primed for conquest, everything about it is just, it's opening its door, it wants to be essentially raped and dominated, and Muslims see that, have a sense for that, and they're coming in to take over. And, and what are, and a lot of people are noticing it, a lot of people are angry, I don't know if you saw in, in England, uh, so after the people made their will known, which is no more migration, we want remigration, and after the authorities were more or less saying, okay, well, you know, just appease the people, then it turns out, uh, there's

• 1:30:36Speaker 00

  video footage of, in France, French authorities escorting an illegal boat of migrants, escorting them at night, across the channel into Britain, even though Britain supposedly pays them like a billion pounds, to make sure that the, uh, the, the crossings are clear. And then, they're met by an English authorities, who will bring them on the shore and give them food and, and shelter, to the point that English people have to come and riot and fight, saying, what are you doing? You're breaking the law, because they are. But then those English people are demonized, uh, the patriots essentially, in the media, as, you know, they're racist, homo, or Islamophobes, you know, the whole nine yards, uh, even though it's the authorities who are breaking the law illegally, and once again, helping bring

• 1:31:17Speaker 00

  in a, a demographic that is openly saying it wants to conquer. Okay, so that's the problem with the West, that's why no other civilization has these problems, because Islam can't do that to them, and they're not gonna let it be done to them. Whereas Islam can't do this to the West, but the West is going out of its way to let it be done to them.

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• 1:34:15Patrick Bet-David?

  What, what percentage of these guys are extremists? In your, in your opinion, what percent? Because I know a lot of good Muslims, and I work with them, and I have no problem with them. What percentage of them believe it, to the point where they're fundamentalists? I'm not talking about the modern, you know, moderate, or just, hey, what percentage would you say?

• 1:34:35Speaker 00

  Obviously, that's a hard question to answer, I think it's a lot, it's a bigger percentage than most people think, however, I have an analogy, where I'll show you that even, okay, so I think everyone will agree, what, the smallest percentage I've heard, very conservative, is 10. Okay, that's very small. I think it's more than that, but let's say 10%, okay? And the analogy I like to give, I call it the, the 100 Muslim candies. So imagine if I give you a jar and has 100 candies, okay? And, um, I tell you, but 10% of them might kill you. Right? Are you gonna eat from that? And it's mixed up, you don't know which is the candy, are you gonna give it to your kids, are you gonna give it to anyone, are you gonna give it to your friends? Are you gonna give it to anyone, uh, short of someone you hate? No. So I submit to you that that is exactly the situation.

• 1:35:14Speaker 00

  When you bring large Muslim migrants, populations, millions, at least 10% are gonna be bad for you. Okay, they're gonna do what we've seen, which is go stab people, kill little kids, crash trucks, uh, bomb churches, rape women, okay? It's gonna happen. You're accepting that, you are openly saying, this is okay. Alright? Whereas a normal person, a normal, a person would never give that jar to anyone, because he knows in it, not all of it, and I get it, yes, most of them are not gonna do that, most of the candies taste great, but at what point, does having the good candies, does having the good Muslims, does that outweigh the fact that you're gonna get the bad candy that will kill you, or the bad Muslim that will go on a, on a terrorist attack? Uh, so that's the way I see it.

• 1:35:59Speaker 00

  It's not a question about, is the majority that way? I don't think the majority is that way, but it's really, just, just 1% is a problem. Right?

• 1:36:09Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, so, so, you know, if you say that way, then that means, you know, regardless, it's inevitable that some, I just looked up what percentage of China is Muslim, and it's a good percentage, India, 14% of the country is Muslims, 24 of their MPs are Muslims out of the 543 selected seats, so if you go through their system, first they bring their religion to your country, then they get involved in politics, then they go into the military. China, uh, they have a major example in Erkin Tunias, an ethnic Uyghur, he is currently the chairman of, uh, Xi Uyghur Autonomous Region Government and Deputy Secretary of Xi Jinping's Communist Party Committee.

• 1:36:51Patrick Bet-David?

  So they're also gradually infiltrating politically there as well. How, how did it happen in America? I mean, I've read some stories about how they started all of a sudden growing and, you know, how the first mosque was built, but how did it happen in America? How did it get in here?

• 1:37:05Speaker 00

  Well, in, in America, it's still actually very small, if, if, if the numbers that I've seen are accurate, something like 1% are only Muslim, and a lot of, something like half of them are, are African, are blacks, who convert in prison. Okay? Uh, or at least that was the number I remember a few years ago. Um, so the numbers, okay, so here's an interesting thing that people don't know, in Islamic law, very well-known teaching, if you as a Muslim, you can't go willingly live in a non-Muslim country. Okay?

• 1:37:30Patrick Bet-David?

  You can't go willingly?

• 1:37:31Speaker 00

  Can't willingly, historically, that's what it was, because a non-Muslim country by nature, it's the infidels.

• 1:37:36Patrick Bet-David?

  It's the enemy.

• 1:37:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, why would you live with them? Okay? But, like I told you, Islam's very elastic when it comes to the welfare of Muslims themselves. And so, once the West basically said, oh yeah, freedom of religion, you can come build mosques, you can come, you know, do whatever you want, yeah, then they started sending them. And one of the other caveats that you can go live in, in a non-Muslim country is if you actually engage in what's called Dawa, which is, uh, preaching Islam, trying to win over converts, win over the goodwill of people. So that was, so if you look in the, you know, if you look in the sixties and seventies, the people who are coming from the Middle East and the Arab world, most of them were actually Christians, okay, but it really started picking up with Muslims later on,

• 1:38:21Speaker 00

  eighties, nineties, and increasingly so. And it's being articulated, again, remember, we talked about the Taqaya, and we talked about Spain, and I told you I had lessons. And one of the lessons that they wanted to keep that base, Muslims in Grenada, and have them pretend to be Christians, was to have a, to have a force there, to try to reconquer. So a lot of the Muslims that are being sent to America and Europe, they have that idea in their head. We are essentially, we're jihadists, okay? Again, in the good term, we are struggling, we are striving on behalf of Islam, and here we are, in an infidel country, and we're trying, we're engaged in Dawa, we're trying to do whatever, okay? You see places in Texas where they're having this, you know, mosque problem, Sharia

• 1:39:03Speaker 00

  law problem, and this is with a 1% minority. So imagine in, in places like, in Europe, where they have like 10%, how aggressive it is. And I've talked to those people, and they told me it's like a nightmare. You know, there's so many cities, they don't even want to enter or go near, because they're essentially taken over. You know, they're, they're Islamic enclaves, literally, please don't enter there. And that's, that too is coming to America. It's, it's happening slower, because the population of Islam here is nothing like in Europe, but it's the same trajectory.

• 1:39:33Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, the, the president was giving a speech at the United Nations, you were kind of quoting it earlier, I saw that part where he talked about what's going on with some of these places. And, and you see, you know, when you're saying Muslim, Islam is weak right now, with manpower, right? When you see Houthis, 10 years ago, they had 30,000 people in their military, they're at 350,000 right now, they have, you know, taken over a handful of places already on the complete other choke point that we have. You have the Strait of Hormuz here, and the other side is what, Ben, uh, Madhab, or, you know, if I'm not pronouncing it correctly, uh, uh, Mandab, yeah, Bab al Mandab Strait. And so Houthis are there, you got IRGC on this side, and every time we say, "We eliminated

• 1:40:17Patrick Bet-David?

  ISIS, we eliminated Al Qaeda, we eliminated," they reappear in a different way somewhere else, right? So, when you're saying they're weak, and you see how Houthis and IRGC have control of two straits, at least it seems like it to the world, no matter how many times we say, "We own the strait, we control it," everybody is still waiting to see what Iran's gonna be doing. How do they have so much power right now, in that region?

• 1:40:41Speaker 00

  Um, well, okay, so when I say they're weak, just so we understand, what I mean is, if, let's say, Islam, the Islamic world versus the rest of the world, and it's an all-out war, okay, they're gonna be done. If it's just Islam versus the West, okay, in an all-out war, just based on the technology that the West have, they're gonna be done, okay? It's just that the West doesn't think that way, it's never gonna try to attack them that way. But they have, in the particular cases you're mentioning, they have that kind of power, because it's local, it's there. They're, Iran's been there, you know, the Hormuz Strait's been its thing, right, for what, centuries, millennia? Um, so they, they have that particular power due to their local proximity, right?

• 1:41:21Patrick Bet-David?

  They have the power due to the local proximity?

• 1:41:25Speaker 00

  No, no, they, they have control over these things, just because they're-

• 1:41:28Patrick Bet-David?

  How should, how should US and the rest of the world handle that, as they're expanding? Because if Houthis went from 30 to 350,000, they're twice the size of Israel, Israel's at 165, whatever their number is, and they now have the third-largest military in the, in the Middle East. I think Iran's number one at 610, and who was number two? Egypt was two or four? Egypt's number two, and then you have them at number three. Should, should the rest of the world just kind of mind their own business and not intervene, or should, what's your position, based on the history?

• 1:41:57Speaker 00

  Well, okay, so this is a good question, because you're, you're tying it in with Islam, I'm talking about Islam, right, history, and you're bringing this in.

• 1:42:05Patrick Bet-David?

  If the threat is that big, should we look aside and we'll be fine?

• 1:42:08Speaker 00

  Uh, no, no, if, if there's a serious threat, of course, uh, the threat, you know, it, it needs to be handled, one way or the other. But here's my, my problem with that paradigm, that you're presenting, which a lot of people do, is this, okay? We can talk about it as a real politic issue, which means, you know, it's Iran, not from an ideological, religious point of view, we can just say Iran's the enemy for whatever reason, and it should be dealt with. But the question that you're asking, and I think a lot of people are suggesting, is, well, Iran is an Islamic power, and you are here talking about Islam, and then obviously Iran is horrible, and we have to do something about it. Now, the issue I have with that, is, and I hear this often, is, well, I still think it's

• 1:42:51Speaker 00

  a real politic thing, because historically, the West's problems with Islam came from Sunni nations, okay? It was the Sunni, all the people that I talk about in these books, historically, the caliphates were all Sunnis, okay? Muhammad's followers, the Umayyads, the Abbasids, the Seljids, the Ottomans, these are the Barbary pirates, all of these were Sunnis who terrorized. Now, I look at the West, and I see America, and, and right now, today, the most radical, in my opinion, nations are Saudi Arabia, this is the home of Wahhabiism and Cellephism. I know everyone, everyone gets shocked, because they've had a great PR campaign going on, but they're the home, that's the head of the snake, that's

• 1:43:31Speaker 00

  the home of Islam, actually. They're the ones who use all their money to fund Wahhabi, which is the same thing, radical literature, okay, all around the world, in the mosques, for example. They're the ones who funded terrorist organizations. Turkey is a Sunni nation, okay? The one country we didn't have a problem with historically were, were the Shias, the Persians, okay? It's kind of ironic, there were times, believe it or not, there was a time when Jews and Persians were attacking Christians, historically, uh, like in the year 614 AD, all right? So, I tell you all this, because I look, and you can't tell me this is a religious thing, when I see that Israel and America is allied with the really terrorist nations, okay? The Sunnis, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, okay? That's

• 1:44:16Speaker 00

  actually, the existential war was from there, that's where the ideology comes. So if you can ally with them, then it's, then this is not a religious war. Because when I think of the grand jihad, it's not Iran. Iran is a terrorist state, I'm not arguing that, and it, it does what it does, and it should be attacked for, or should be neutralized for that. But if someone wants to make the argument, that, oh, that's the head of the snake, and if we can just neutralize Iran, everything's great, and we're friends with Saudi Arabia, and with Egypt, and with, and with Pakistan, and with Turkey, yeah, you've lost, then this is not about Islam, at all. This is actually diplomacy and real politic, and that's fine by me, I'm not arguing that. But I think we need to really clarify, and

• 1:44:59Speaker 00

  get our terms correct, and understand what this is. So, is America and Israel at war with Iran? Yeah, they are. Is there a legitimate reason? Yeah, if there is, it's not, it's not gonna, it's not because Iran's Islamic, I don't think that. Because America and Israel's friends with even more radical Islamic nations, is what I'm trying to say.

• 1:45:14Patrick Bet-David?

  So your concern is more Saudi than Iran?

• 1:45:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, from, from a historical perspective, from an ideological perspective, the West has been at war with the Sunnis.

• 1:45:24Patrick Bet-David?

  So, but you, you, one may say, well, look at what MBS is doing. He wants to bring business in, he wants to invest, you got, you know, uh, even the most basic things somebody would say is, Ronaldo chose to go play over there, they want to bring sports, golf, soccer, all this stuff. They, maybe they're realizing, Raymond, maybe you have a blind spot, maybe they want to westernize, and maybe they want to kind of become partners, maybe that's what they're trying to, maybe they just want to make money. What would you say to that?

• 1:45:52Speaker 00

  Well, I would say, uh, remember the doctrine of Taqaya, and all the lies that we talked about, and all the deception, and all the, um, you know, um, all, all the leeway Muslims are given, to actually deceive. Yeah, on the surface, they're doing all these reforms, that's not changing what their religion is about, which is what I described earlier, okay, which is hatred for the infidel, which is biding your time, until the circumstance is right, and then you expand, and then you attack, and then you subjugate. It makes perfect sense for the descendants of Muhammad, in this case Saudi Arabia, to be, to be friends with the West, because he would have done the same thing, when he was weak and outnumbered. That doesn't change the long-term plan, okay? So that's why, if you want to be, and here's my point, if you want to be enemies with Iran, because it's Islamic, well, you should

• 1:46:36Speaker 00

  be enemies with all these countries, that would be more sincere and honest. But if we're friends with these countries, then whatever beef we have with Iran, it's not because of religion, it's not because of Islam, okay? Because we are actually friends and in bed with the guys who are the historic and contemporary problem, from, uh, look at the West, in Europe, all the terrorist attacks, they're all Sunnis. I never hear of Iranians in Europe committing terrorists. I'm not saying they don't exist, but it's, it's always Africans from Sub-Saharan, that's Sunni. It's always Arabs, Sunnis, it's always whoever, these are all Sunni nations. So, if our problem in the West was actually, if we wanted to get serious about the war against Islam, we, we wouldn't be buddy-buddy with

• 1:47:19Speaker 00

  the countries that I mentioned, Saudi Arabia, for example, all right? Again, this isn't to say that Iran is good, it's to say that, if that's the case, then whatever issue we have with Iran, it's not about religion.

• 1:47:30Patrick Bet-David?

  I don't think Trump is the current president, I don't think he views it that way. I don't think he's a religious guy-

• 1:47:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, I know, I know.

• 1:47:38Patrick Bet-David?

  -studying, saying-

• 1:47:38Speaker 00

  But there's a lot of people who use that rhetoric, and what they're doing is they're conflating different things.

• 1:47:43Patrick Bet-David?

  I agree, I think he's a businessman that's trying to broker deals, and, you know, even, even just yesterday, when the comment was, was made about, hey, somebody said Bibi's not happy with you selling F-35s to Turkey, and he says, "I don't report to that guy, I, I do whatever I think is right." So, what do you think about how close we are with Turkey right now, and even empowering them? You think long-term, they're a bigger threat than Iran? In your eyes?

• 1:48:06Speaker 00

  So Turkey was the historic, you know, all the battles I talk about here and towards the end in these books. It's uh, it's Turkey. It's the Ottoman Empire. Okay, this was-

• 1:48:14Patrick Bet-David?

  Armenians, Assyrians, Greeks.

• 1:48:16Speaker 00

  They did genocides, right? Um, and they don't, they don't even wanna admit it at this point, even though everyone knows. Uh, but they were like, they were the scourge of the Christian world in Europe for centuries. And they still have those designs. Someone like Erdogan, you know, styles himself as some sort of Neo- Neo Ottoman Kalif, or he wants to be. So Turkey's are definitely a dangerous nation as far as its potential. And uh, so yeah, this is what I mean. If you wanna be allied with Turkey, but, but then you say Iran's a bad guy. Okay, that's fine, but that tells me the issue is not ideological. Or this isn't-

• 1:48:49Patrick Bet-David?

  It definitely isn't. He, he's not a true believer like you are, in this sense. This isn't something he studied.

• 1:48:54Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:48:54Patrick Bet-David?

  Last thing for the audience to have some fun with. You know, what, what can you tell us about Vlad the Impaler? You know? What, what is the true story of this guy? Was he a good guy? Was he a villain? Was he a bad guy?

• 1:49:06Speaker 00

  You know, Vlad the Impaler is actually a perfect to mention in the context of what we're talking about fake history. And uh, so he's in this book, actually. The chapter eight's all about him. And what's interesting about him is, okay, so we, Vlad the Impaler, we know he's Count Dracula, right? Count Dracula is a, is a book written in, I think, uh, uh, eighteen ninety something by Bram Stoker, some Irish guy. And he just, he needed a, a name, and he got the name from this guy Vlad the Impaler, whose real name is Vlad Dracula. Dracula means son of the devil, or son of the dragon. It's really, his father was a member of the Order of the Dragon, which was actually a Christian knightly-

• 1:49:40Patrick Bet-David?

  Vlad's father.

• 1:49:41Speaker 00

  Vlad's father. And his father, so he was the Dracul, the Order of the Dragon. Vlad is Dracula, meaning son of the dragon. Okay? So that's just his name. Now, what happened is, he just wanted, he wanted a name of some fierce guy. And some guy told him, oh, use that name, Dracula. So he put it on his book. And now low and behold, Dracula is a blood-sucking vampire who sleeps in the day and comes up at night. Okay? Now, if you go back to the actual Dracula and why this all happened is, so he, what he was, was basically Romanian, Wallachia. And he, he was taken, he was a, he was a prince. He should have been, they're known as voivodes, which means like warlord of Romania or Wallachia.

• 1:50:23Speaker 00

  He was taken, him and his brother were taken as captives, because that's what the Ottoman Muslim Turks would do. They would take the, the most powerful men, the kings, they'd take their sons as captives to make sure, or hostages, to make sure they behave. And so the, the two sons were taken. Mohammed the Conqueror, Mohammed the Second, who conquered Constantinople in fourteen fifty-three, was a young man then. And long, and basically, he turned his brother, Vlad's brother, Radu, into his boy toy. Yeah, he, because Mohammed the Second was bisexual. And he forced, he, he forced the brother of Vlad to become basically a, a catamite, like his, his-

• 1:51:01Patrick Bet-David?

  This guy was a bisexual?

• 1:51:02Speaker 00

  Uh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Um, and a pedophile and everything. And um, and he's a hero in Turkey, by the way. But um, so, and, but Vlad would not relent to that kinda thing, and they would, and he was very rebellious, and he was always being whipped in the Ottoman prisons. Anyway, he find, they find, he somehow escapes.

• 1:51:22Patrick Bet-David?

  The brother?

• 1:51:23Speaker 00

  No, the brother stays there the whole time, and he's just basically the sex slave of Mohammed.

• 1:51:28Patrick Bet-David?

  In, in, intentionally, like he enjoys it?

• 1:51:31Speaker 00

  So, well, the original story is, the first time Mohammed tried to make a sexual advance on him, he tried to kill him, Radu, the brother. He freaked out. But then it says he finally succumbed and gave in. Okay? Uh, and Vlad would not, Vlad escaped, and eventually, he becomes finally the voivode of, um, Wallachia. Now, the situation's a mess there, okay? You have Hungary, which is a powerful Christian force, and you have the Ottomans, and Wallachia's right in the middle. And you know, the, the leaders, his predecessors, including his father, are being deposed every year. Okay? And his, and his father was actually murdered by his own people, and his brother was buried alive. Okay?

• 1:52:14Speaker 00

  And uh, and he, while he was in prison, saw all the torture, experienced the torture, saw Ottomans impaling people. So when he finally comes back, he just, he becomes so ruthless. His logic is, the only way I'm gonna, I'm going to have any semblance of order is extreme draconian, you know, just law. Anyone who makes one false move, you're impaled. Okay? And what he was doing, but then, of course, most of his wars against the Ottomans. Um, and they, so they send and they ask him for tribute. They say, okay, now, this is what, this was the normal behavior. The Ottomans would go to a Christian power, if they couldn't conquer them, say, pay us. Basically, pay us and we'll leave you alone, become a vassal.

• 1:52:56Speaker 00

  And they would also take their children, they're boys, and they would turn them into Janissaries. Okay? Which is uh, so they would take the strongest young Christian boys, and convert them to Islam forcibly, and raise them into jihadists, essentially. And they would become the most feared force of the Ottoman army. Then they would unleash them back on the Christians, uh, and it would be like a perpetual cycle. So they went to Vlad and said, okay, you owe us some back money. You've been on this throne, and you, we also want like five hundred Romanian boys. Um, and he said, no. And when the ambassadors came, it's kinda funny, they climbed all these steps to see him, and they're wearing turbans. And he gets really annoyed with them, and he basically says, and by the way, why don't you remove your turban when you're in front of me?

• 1:53:38Speaker 00

  You know, as a sign of respect. And they said, well, our religion and our custom says we can't. So he had, he had his men nail the turbans on their heads, and sent, and sent them back to Mohammed.

• 1:53:48Patrick Bet-David?

  Stop it.

• 1:53:48Speaker 00

  No, no, it's true. And sent them back to Mohammed, saying, well, here, to make sure your turban never falls off your head, I'll help you. And then he sent them to Mohammed and said, and tell him, you're not taking our sons, nail the-

• 1:54:00Speaker 02

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• 1:56:40Patrick Bet-David?

  Turban to their heads, did they die, or were they just bleeding?

• 1:56:42Speaker 00

  They were bloody, yeah. It says small nails, so I'm sure they were very damaged. Um, and they're sent off. And at that point, Mohammed the Second, who, who is raping his brother, yeah, declares a massive jihad, and he goes, um, and invades Wallachia. And as usual, this Ottoman war machine, it's something, he outnumbered Vlad by something like one to fifteen. Okay, and then all that Vlad had were just like, like, you know, farmers with farm tools to fight. So they engage in guerrilla warfare. You know, they can't meet the Ottomans, uh, head-on. But they engage in terror tactics. Okay, that's what guerrilla fighters do. So at one night, Vlad, at the head of like a couple thousand men, actually go into the Ottoman tent,

• 1:57:25Speaker 00

  the Ottoman camp, which is like a hundred thousand men, looking for Mohammed the Second to kill him. They wanted to assassinate the Sultan.

• 1:57:31Patrick Bet-David?

  Vlad went with them?

• 1:57:32Speaker 00

  Vlad, oh, he, he had, he led the charge. Okay? And um, they killed a lot of people, but they couldn't reach the Sultan. And Mohammed was really shook by this. And anyway, after that, they continue, and they finally come to Vlad's castle. And what they see is what's called the Forest of the Impaled. Literally thousands of, of Ottomans, Turks, impaled on stakes. Okay, and it's like very horrific sight, so. And eventually, Mohammed leaves at that point. And he leaves his, the gay brother, Radu, who eventually, over time, convinces the Wallachians to give up the war, and Vlad gets thrown in jail. Um, but then he comes back out and et cetera. But now, now to the real story is-

• 1:58:14Speaker 00

  So later on, this is Vlad's life coincides with the Gutenberg press. And he was one of the first people who had a lot of propaganda by his enemies done. And there were, he had various enemies. So they created this myth about him as just this extreme sadist who impales and kills. And there's some truth to it, but what we're not told is that's what, that's what others were doing too. That's what the Ottomans were doing. So he got really demonized. And then when you look in his actual correspondence and letters, and I have them in the book, in Defenders of the West, he sees himself as a Christian knight.

• 1:58:46Patrick Bet-David?

  Eastern Orthodox.

• 1:58:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, Eastern Orthodox, defending his land from the Muslims, from the terrorists. And he, you know, and he was known to be friends with monks and he would hang out at monasteries all the time. In fact, after he was killed and decapitated, a group of monks took his body and buried it. He was a generous patron to monks. So he actually was a Christian in that sense. And he saw his, his crusade as a crusade against invading Islam. But it's funny because that's not the image we have, right? First he's a vampire, but then even if you look at the historic sources, he's often presented as one of the most evil men. But again, it's based, historians know it's based on propaganda that was created at the time by his enemies, because he had a lot of enemies.

• 1:59:27Speaker 00

  And that, yes, he was draconian. Yes, he engaged in what would be considered cruel. But so did everyone else at the time. That's what, see, that's the, that's the trick of history, where they, they make you think that, oh, like no one else was doing that. Everyone, lots of people were engaged in.

• 1:59:41Patrick Bet-David?

  Did he have kids? Did he end up having kids that ended up becoming leaders and seek vengeance or no?

• 1:59:46Speaker 00

  No, I don't, there's not much. He had, he had two wives and there's very little known about him having kids, actually. I don't think he did.

• 1:59:53Patrick Bet-David?

  So when he died, was he a hero to his people?

• 1:59:55Speaker 00

  He's a hero told today. In Romania, that, you know, so yeah, that's an interesting thing. In Romania, Vlad is one of the top, I think, five most respected figures in their history, for the reasons that I gave you. But to us, he's, he's just this monster, right?

• 2:00:11Patrick Bet-David?

  Has there ever been a depiction, has there ever been a movie or documentary that tells a story the right way?

• 2:00:16Speaker 00

  Um, no, not, not the way that I tell it. In chapter eight. They'll, they'll, they'll, so you have two Vlad. You have the Dracula, which is pure fictitious vampire. Then you have the one we're talking about. And there, there's, I've seen some movies that engage in some of it, but not, it doesn't come out the way I, I, I read it from the.

• 2:00:33Patrick Bet-David?

  Who killed him? Who killed him? How, how did they kill him?

• 2:00:35Speaker 00

  Finally, with the Ottomans, the Turks. They finally, it's supposed to, it's unclear what happened, but it seems to have been betrayal, like some Ottoman spy went there pretending to be a Romanian and he worked with him and eventually stabbed him in the back.

• 2:00:48Patrick Bet-David?

  As an insight.

• 2:00:48Speaker 00

  And they got his head and they put it on the gates of Constantinople, which by then were conquered by Mohammed II.

• 2:00:54Patrick Bet-David?

  As a statement for all the impaling that he did to others? And what is the number? Is it 20,000 or something? I've read that.

• 2:01:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, he impaled a lot of people. Ottomans.

• 2:01:04Patrick Bet-David?

  As a, as a way of making a statement to his people or as a way?

• 2:01:07Speaker 00

  I think as a way of fighting fire with fire, which means, look, I'm outnumbered, I'm weak. You're this Ottoman behemoth war machine and I'm going to terrify you.

• 2:01:15Patrick Bet-David?

  This guy's a warrior mindset to do. So he knew he was going to eventually get killed.

• 2:01:19Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, his story is fascinating.

• 2:01:22Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, you're fascinating, man. I can, I can sit here and talk to you for hours and I'll look forward to our next visit because I think two hours is not enough, but this has been incredible, sitting down with you. And if you're watching this, if you haven't yet gone and ordered a book Sword and Cemetery, we're going to put the link below to go place the order for the book and support it. And we want this message to spread for more people. So if you enjoy the content as well, share it with others and ask them what they took away with this conversation with the great Raymond Ebrahim. Brother, appreciate you.

• 2:01:52Speaker 00

  Thanks, Patrick.

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