Sofia Coppola

Ina sits down at her kitchen table with Sofia Coppola for a glass of Sofia's champagne. They talk about Marie Antoinette twenty years on, the film Sofia finished for her mother, and the movie of hers her daughters love most (the one she's a little embarrassed by). They also talk about Sofia's favorite places to eat and shop in New York and Paris, what it was like to intern for Karl Lagerfeld at Chanel as a teenager, and how she learned to make Ina’s roast chicken. SUBSCRIBE ► Subscribe to Happy Hour with Ina Garten for new episodes every Wednesday: https://www.youtube.com/@HappyHourwithIna?sub_confirmation=1 FOLLOW THE SHOW ► Happy Hour on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@HappyHourwithIna?sub_confirmation=1 ► Happy Hour on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/happyhourwithina ► Happy Hour on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@happyhourwithina ► Happy Hour on Substack: https://happyhourwithinagarten.substack.com/welcome ► Happy Hour on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61589319634655 Host: Ina GartenExecutive Producers: Jenna Weiss-Berman, Suzie Lechtenberg, Ali Jaffe Ramis, and Deborah Davis Contributing Producer: Kate Tyler Senior Producer: Justine Daum Video Editor: Tim Fernandez Associate Producer: Mica Pollan Bahn Sound Recording: Joe Plourde Camera Operators: Joe Valenzuela and Gregory Purpura Music by Pink Martini Special Thanks to Cinematographer Dion Beebe Happy Hour with Ina is made by Good Wait Productions. This is a Vox Media podcast. Beloved hostess Ina Garten welcomes listeners into her New York City apartment for Happy Hour with Ina Garten. Every Wednesday, she sits down with people she’d like to meet from the worlds of culture, food, art, sports, and entertainment for the kinds of conversations you would love to overhear at a great dinner party. Warm, funny, personal, and often unexpected, Happy Hour mixes in-depth conversation with stories, recipes, and, of course, cocktails. Pull up a chair, pour yourself a drink, and join the conversation. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Ina Garten?

  I'm Ina Garten and each week on Happy Hour, I invite new and old friends for a drink and a fun conversation at my kitchen table in New York City. On this week's episode, I'm joined by Sofia Coppola. Sofia is an Academy Award-winning filmmaker.

• 0:17Speaker 01

  I was always kind of ashamed of that movie because it's so kind of trashy, but then it's like my kids' favorite movie. And I was like, "Really? That one?"

• 0:24Ina Garten?

  Her films include The Virgin Suicides, Lost in Translation, Marie Antoinette, and Priscilla. We chat about the hilarious way that we met, our shared love of Paris.

• 0:35Speaker 01

  I love to go to get crepes at Cafe Brez, Odéon.

• 0:38Ina Garten?

  Oh, I don't know that. And what influences her iconic personal style.

• 0:48Ina Garten?

  Support for the show comes from Whole Foods Market. I love cooking in the autumn. The markets are full of gorgeous produce. There's a snap in the air which makes me want to turn on the stove and cook with simple ingredients that makes everything so much easier and more satisfying. Crisp apples, sweet squash, fresh sage, toasted nuts, and rich cheeses. Have a way of making your favorite fall dishes taste even better than you remember. For fresh seasonal ingredients, for everyday meals, and for intimate parties, shop Whole Foods Market in-store or online.

• 1:33Ina Garten?

  Sofia Coppola, welcome to Happy Hour.

• 1:35Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:35Ina Garten?

  And of course, I know your movies, but who knew you had your own champagne?

• 1:39Speaker 01

  I feel very lucky because I grew up in Napa on a vineyard and my dad, when I was a kid, said, "When you're 21, you'll have your own champagne."

• 1:46Ina Garten?

  And he actually did?

• 1:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. It's really fun.

• 1:49Ina Garten?

  It's delicious.

• 1:50Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:50Ina Garten?

  It's really good.

• 1:51Speaker 01

  I'm glad you like it.

• 1:52Ina Garten?

  And I love that it's called Sofia.

• 1:53Speaker 01

  I feel very lucky to have my own champagne.

• 1:56Ina Garten?

  Everybody needs a good present for their 21st birthday.

• 1:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:00Ina Garten?

  You know what the thing about birthdays is? You always want it to be something you remember.

• 2:04Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, that's true.

• 2:05Ina Garten?

  Do you remember what you got for your 20th birthday? Never.

• 2:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, right, no.

• 2:08Ina Garten?

  For your 21st birthday, you'll always remember.

• 2:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 2:11Ina Garten?

  So you and I saw each other the last time in the-- I know this sounds really tawdry-- in the bathroom at Air France, going to Paris.

• 2:19Speaker 01

  I know. I was-- Yeah, it was so fun to see you at the Air France lounge and I was like-- and I'm a shy person, but I was like, "I have to ask you where you like to eat in Paris." Some of your favorite places.

• 2:31Ina Garten?

  Was that what happened?

• 2:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:32Ina Garten?

  That's really sweet.

• 2:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I was like, "I wonder where your favorite place in Paris."

• 2:36Ina Garten?

  And when was the first time you went to Paris? Do you remember?

• 2:39Speaker 01

  I don't know the exact time, but we went as kids a lot because my parents loved it. And so I grew up-- we visited a lot and I have friends of my parents who are like aunts and uncles. So my parents had a little apartment in Saint-Jean-Maure, so that's the area that I know.

• 2:55Ina Garten?

  Oh, so you know it really well.

• 2:56Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then as a teenager, I was an intern at Chanel when I was 15 and 16.

• 3:00Ina Garten?

  What was that like?

• 3:02Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, it was like a dream. It was like 80s in Paris with Karl Lagerfeld. And I remember going to Cafe Flore and thinking it was really sophisticated. It just like opened the world to me because I grew up in the country, in Napa Valley, so--

• 3:15Ina Garten?

  Well, you're not a jappy country girl.

• 3:16Speaker 01

  My friends were so excited that I was coming to your place.

• 3:20Ina Garten?

  Oh, thank you.

• 3:21Speaker 01

  And I have to tell you that I'm not confident about how to make dinner and like about roasting a chicken. And we followed your recipe and I was so proud. My roast chicken turned out really good.

• 3:31Ina Garten?

  Isn't that great?

• 3:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:33Ina Garten?

  And you know, it's really about good ingredients and following a recipe that you trust. And I mean, I just follow my recipes. It's like, you know, every half a teaspoon of salt and--

• 3:42Speaker 01

  You do, yeah.

• 3:43Ina Garten?

  Just otherwise, you know, I work on them so hard so that you'll be able to make--

• 3:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I don't have to--

• 3:48Ina Garten?

  --a good recipe. And it feels good, doesn't it?

• 3:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was so proud because I always like-- it's fry-- but I just felt, yes, I feel confident now that I know how to roast a chicken. So thank you. And my dad would try to show me things and he's always improvising. He's like, "You just feel it." And I was like, "I don't feel it. I need someone to tell me exactly."

• 4:02Ina Garten?

  Yeah. I think that's an Italian background.

• 4:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:05Ina Garten?

  When you grow up with your mother cooking. But none of us really did.

• 4:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:09Ina Garten?

  So we have to-- we need a recipe to-- I need a recipe to follow. I don't throw things together ever.

• 4:12Speaker 01

  Oh, that's good to hear.

• 4:13Ina Garten?

  Yeah. What do you like to cook?

• 4:16Speaker 01

  Well, now I feel com-- I only have a few things that I can make, but--

• 4:19Ina Garten?

  You don't eat a lot of things.

• 4:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, no. But my husband makes really good pasta and he grills a steak great. So I feel like if I have friends over, I can grill.

• 4:29Ina Garten?

  You were one of the first people to see Marie Antoinette as more than just a privileged young girl who was, you know, saying things about brioche and cake. What did you see in her that was-- that you thought-- I mean, I love that you thought you were the only one who could show this side of her.

• 4:45Speaker 01

  Well, she was such a villain. And a friend of mine was reading a biography about her and said that she was 14 when she went to Versailles.

• 4:52Ina Garten?

  Incredible.

• 4:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I had no idea that she was so young. And so then it made me curious. And Antonia Fraser had just come out with her-- Yeah, I just came out with that great biography on Marie Antoinette. So I read her book and it was so interesting to me that she made her human and showed her all these details of her as a young girl and that they really took away mops, her pug when she arrived, and what it was like to be an outsider, which I feel like--

• 5:17Ina Garten?

  Everybody feels that at some point.

• 5:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, everyone can relate to be going into this world where you're learning how to fit in. And I was always a new kid at school because we moved around so much. So I just-- I was really taken by just the-- all these details of how she went through all these transitions that everybody goes through in life, except for in this crazy circumstance during and then the French Revolution. So I wanted-- I just was-- and that era, the way they lived and the way they dressed just seemed so decadent and fun and over the top. So I just always loved that period and got really into learning about her in a way that I didn't know anything about.

• 5:56Ina Garten?

  It's so gorgeous, absolutely so gorgeous. I think you need a little more champagne.

• 5:59Speaker 01

  Okay, thank you.

• 6:00Ina Garten?

  Are you the perfect person for me to ask this question? Is it true that the coupe was designed after Marie Antoinette's breast?

• 6:08Speaker 01

  That's what I've heard.

• 6:09Ina Garten?

  I didn't know if you knew it was actually true or it was just a rumor.

• 6:13Speaker 01

  I don't know for sure, but I've heard that too. And I remember telling Kirsten Dunst and she thought it was a flute, a champagne flute. She was like, "What?" Yeah, I know, but I've heard that. I don't know. I'll ask the curator at Versailles.

• 6:24Ina Garten?

  Oh, that'd be great. That'd be fantastic. So take me back. You, when you were in school-- it's so-- I think it's interesting. When we're in our 20s, we're interested in all different kinds of things that don't seem like they go together. And you were interested in art. You were interested in fashion. And you were interested in photography. So how did you-- how did that play out when you were in school?

• 6:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was really frustrated in my 20s and lost. I was like, "I don't know what to do because I can't pick one thing and I'm not-- I know a little bit about different things. I have so many interests, but I'm not an expert at one thing. And I didn't want to just study one thing." And then I made a short film and I realized it was really helpful to know a little bit about each department. And then you get to work with experts and it's so fun to talk to the cinematographer or the costume department. So, yeah, it was like kind of right in front of me, but you don't see it until--

• 7:14Ina Garten?

  You don't see it until you--

• 7:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:15Ina Garten?

  And how old were you when you made the first movie?

• 7:17Speaker 01

  I made a short film in my 20s. I was probably like 25, 26. And then I made my first film, Virgin Suicides, when I was 29. But I really was stuck and dabbling and trying different things. And, yeah, I was so happy when I did something that kind of brought it all together.

• 7:34Ina Garten?

  And it all brought it together. I sort of did the same thing. When I was working in the government in my 20s, I would renovate old houses and I'd go to the bank and borrow money. And then I got a business degree and I taught myself how to cook. And I was like, "What am I doing with this?" Other than-- I just liked doing all of them.

• 7:51Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 7:51Ina Garten?

  And just like you, I didn't do any of them really well. And then when I bought a specialty food store, I realized I needed all of that.

• 7:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:58Ina Garten?

  You know, I needed to go to the bank and borrow money and I needed to know how to cook. But I didn't have to cook my-- you know, I wasn't the chef.

• 8:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:04Ina Garten?

  So it all kind of-- it's so satisfying when it all comes together and it's all of your interests.

• 8:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's so cool to hear. And I-- yeah, I think with young people-- my daughter, Cozy, who's 16, was like-- I'm thinking about college. I don't know what I like-- I mean, she likes so many different things. How to pick one and it's so true.

• 8:21Ina Garten?

  You don't have to yet.

• 8:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:22Ina Garten?

  Yeah. You just have to kind of see where it follows.

• 8:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's so hard to do at that age. It's sort of like--

• 8:27Ina Garten?

  There's this great expression that I just love and I think it's from J.P. Morgan, is "Go as far as you can see and when you get there, you'll be able to see farther."

• 8:34Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 8:34Ina Garten?

  As in, you don't need to figure out what the end game is.

• 8:37Speaker 01

  Because you haven't got there yet.

• 8:38Ina Garten?

  Just do what you're doing. Do it really well and see where it goes.

• 8:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:42Ina Garten?

  And I think that's the best outcome. That's how you ended up in filmmaking.

• 8:46Speaker 01

  And I feel like-- yeah, thank you. And I always feel like you end up doing what you're meant to be if you follow--

• 8:52Ina Garten?

  Exactly.

• 8:53Speaker 01

  --follow those impulses or urges, like what you're trying to do.

• 8:56Ina Garten?

  What just pleases you.

• 8:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:58Ina Garten?

  Jeffrey always says, "Do what you love. If you love it, you'll be really good at it." Because you're going to do it all the time, whether you need it or not.

• 9:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's true. You get obsessed. And I think with making films, I have to pick a subject that I get-- you work on it for so long, you have to be obsessed with it so you don't get bored of it.

• 9:14Ina Garten?

  That's a good point.

• 9:15Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 9:17Ina Garten?

  What was it like when you were a kid and moving around all the time? Because you would follow your father wherever he was filming, right?

• 9:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, we always went on location, my brothers and I, with my parents. And it was always fun, like an adventure. We lived in the Philippines during the apocalypse now. And I went to school in Tulsa, Oklahoma during the outside.

• 9:36Ina Garten?

  That's hot or cold to me when you're there.

• 9:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was hot. It was hot. But yeah, so it was always a fun adventure. I always loved to visit the set because it was always exciting. And my dad worked with a lot of the same people that were like our aunts and uncles.

• 9:50Ina Garten?

  So, yeah.

• 9:51Speaker 01

  But I did feel sorry for myself sometimes, being a new kid at school. Like I miss my friends sometimes.

• 9:56Ina Garten?

  Oh, of course.

• 9:57Speaker 01

  But we always went back to Napa Valley where I grew up. So we would come and go, and so I had a home base.

• 10:02Ina Garten?

  So you'd go for like six months and then come back?

• 10:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I graduated with kids that I was in first grade with. But so that was nice.

• 10:09Ina Garten?

  But yeah. I mean, when we're kids, we think what we're doing, everybody must be doing. Did you think you had just like a regular childhood? Or did you know that it was really unusual?

• 10:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know. It does just seem like that's what you're doing. Although in Napa where I grew up, no one else was in the film business. The parents did more normal things. But I didn't really think much of it. And it was sort of like a circus family. It's just like what we did. Yeah, but it was, yeah, it was fun living in different places. And you have to be adaptable.

• 10:39Ina Garten?

  And also, I think being immersed in creativity must have just seeped into you. You can't help but kind of get that.

• 10:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I feel so lucky because everyone was being creative. And so it makes you want to do that, and it's exciting to be around. I learned so much being on set that when I started doing it, I just knew how to do it by being around it.

• 10:59Ina Garten?

  It's familiar. Yeah, it's really familiar.

• 11:01Speaker 01

  I don't realize I was getting all the training without realizing it.

• 11:04Ina Garten?

  I think one of the things about doing something new is, how much do you feel like you know about it? How much do you not know? I mean, I think one of the things that stops us from doing something is, oh, my God, I don't know anything about it. But if you do something that you're familiar with, it seems much less scary.

• 11:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I always think a new project is... Yeah, you want to know enough to approach it. But I think the fun is discovering and learning about a new subject that you jump into because you learn so much.

• 11:31Ina Garten?

  I mean, I just admire people who just do things. You jump off a cliff. You have no idea where you're going to land. And does it feel like every time you start a movie, it's like, I don't know how this is ever going to happen?

• 11:43Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 11:44Ina Garten?

  Or do you have it all mapped out in your head?

• 11:46Speaker 01

  No, I have no idea, and it's always scary. And then someone told me it's not worthwhile unless it's scary because you're invested in it.

• 11:52Ina Garten?

  I feel. Exactly.

• 11:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it's a thrill.

• 11:55Ina Garten?

  If it doesn't keep me up at night, I don't want to do it.

• 11:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, what's the point if it's not scary? So I do. But it was funny because I was telling my husband the other day. I was talking about doing a new project and wanting to make a film, you know, coming up. And I was like, what if I... It's been a while. It's been a couple of years. And I was like, what if I don't remember what to do? And like, yeah, but then as soon as you're there, it all comes together. But yeah, I think you always are.

• 12:15Ina Garten?

  What was the scariest movie that you made?

• 12:18Speaker 01

  I think they always are. You're always like, what if it's, yeah, a disaster? But then you're just, I'm so fixated on like what I have in my mind and seeing that come together, the fun of making it, getting together with the crew to make it. It's so collaborative.

• 12:31Ina Garten?

  I do love that film is like this handmade thing. It's all people.

• 12:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:36Ina Garten?

  It's not like, I mean, everybody talks about AI, but it's never the same unless it's done with people. And it's building things together.

• 12:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:45Ina Garten?

  I feel that way about a cookbook, but it's such a simpler task than doing a movie.

• 12:49Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, but you probably have a whole team.

• 12:51Ina Garten?

  A whole crew of people that we just say, well, what about this? And let's try that.

• 12:55Speaker 01

  That's so fun.

• 12:56Ina Garten?

  I mean, not for developing recipes, but for photographing the book.

• 12:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, I love that. That's the part, because I write alone, and then it's fun to come together and then work with people that you love to work with, and everyone comes up with ideas. So it's definitely the process of making it. And then I think the scariest part is when you get a first rough cut because it's like the first time you're seeing it together, but it doesn't work yet. So it's really awkward. And then you spend months editing it into something. And it's always a mystery that it comes together if it does.

• 13:24Ina Garten?

  I remember that I saw a wonderful John Williams movie. I'm sure you've seen it called Music by John Williams. Have you seen that?

• 13:29Speaker 01

  Oh, no. It's a documentary.

• 13:31Ina Garten?

  It's about the impact of music on filmmaking. And I mean, my favorite moment is when Spielberg was talking about his first movie, Jaws. And he brought it to John Williams.

• 13:41Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 13:42Ina Garten?

  And Williams said to him, come back in a week and I'll have the theme song for you. And he came back in a week and he went, ba-boom. And Steven was like, what is that?

• 13:52Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 13:53Ina Garten?

  And he said, it's your theme song. And he goes, ba-boom? And it was, and he said, it's, Spielberg said, the music was everything. It was scarier that it was quiet.

• 14:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:04Ina Garten?

  And Spielberg was thinking it was going to be like scary, big, big music. So all of those things layered on to the rough cut makes such a huge difference.

• 14:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, it really does. But yeah, I can't imagine Jaws without that song that's happened.

• 14:15Ina Garten?

  Exactly, exactly. And actually, I think that in the documentary, they showed Star Wars without the music and then with the music.

• 14:25Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 14:25Ina Garten?

  And Lucas said, half the movie is the music.

• 14:29Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 14:29Ina Garten?

  So your music is incredible.

• 14:31Speaker 01

  I love that part because I love music and I grew up going to see bands. And like, so it's the fun part. And I think when you get in the edit and then put the music on it, all comes alive.

• 14:40Ina Garten?

  It all comes alive, doesn't it? It's amazing.

• 14:42Speaker 01

  But someone told me, try to make your scene work before you put the music on because you can kind of cheat and put the music on and it's better. So if you have the scene...

• 14:49Ina Garten?

  If it's good on its own.

• 14:50Speaker 01

  Good, and then add the music. Yeah.

• 14:51Ina Garten?

  It's even better. Oh, that's really so interesting.

• 14:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:54Ina Garten?

  I had heard, what's interesting about your characters is sometimes they're like Marie Antoinette, not really likeable.

• 14:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:00Ina Garten?

  And I saw a video of one, I think it was a producer of yours, who said you bring a project, and you're like, why would you want to spend a year with that person? Like The Bling Ring, which is such a great movie. These five kids in L.A., it's a true story, that decide to rob famous people's houses.

• 15:18Speaker 01

  You know, I read that article in Vanity Fair, and it just was like, what is going on? And it just seemed to be like our culture was shifting. And I thought it was just kind of a phase. I didn't realize it was like a total shift where we were going at that time because that was, I don't know how long ago.

• 15:33Ina Garten?

  This was before influencers and that whole...

• 15:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was before even Instagram was popular. It was, or I'm trying to think. It was just right at the shift where famous people were posting where they were. And then these kids were obsessed with like Paris Hilton. I guess it's the early 2000s.

• 15:47Ina Garten?

  Yeah.

• 15:47Speaker 01

  But it was, yeah, and I just, it was just so kind of twisted. But it was aesthetically not my world at all. And I remember feeling like, oh, my God, I'm dragging all these people through these like tacky nightclubs in L.A. But there was just something about the world and the kids that intrigued me because it was so...

• 16:07Ina Garten?

  Well, and also that they're intrigued with all the labels, which is so revolting.

• 16:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, and that they, I guess I always liked stories about identity, how people find their identity, I guess, and like them trying on different personalities and stuff. But yeah, I was always kind of ashamed of that movie because it's so kind of trashy. But then it's like my kid's favorite. And I was like, really? That one? It was very like, we had like Us Weekly tabloids as references. And it was just, it was just not the aesthetically beautiful world.

• 16:35Ina Garten?

  But it really was that it was the forerunner of everything that's happening now. I mean, it's incredible.

• 16:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, it really felt like we were at a shift. And I, but I had no idea that it was, I think, and also I think kids read it differently than I intended it as like a cautionary tale. But they're like, oh, it's so cool, so.

• 16:51Ina Garten?

  Another trademark of your movies is interesting to me because I think it's generational, is The Trapped Woman.

• 16:58Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 16:58Ina Garten?

  Do you feel that that's one of your trademarks?

• 17:01Speaker 01

  Yes, and I wanted to do a, it was funny. I was thinking about curating like a film series of movies, not of mine, but of movies that I love of trapped women.

• 17:09Ina Garten?

  Isn't that interesting? So your mother was, probably would have been 10 years older than me?

• 17:14Speaker 01

  She was born in '36.

• 17:16Ina Garten?

  '36, yeah. She would have been 10 years older than me. So your mother's generation really didn't have options.

• 17:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:21Ina Garten?

  And they, I mean, did your mother work when you were growing up? Or did she take care of...

• 17:26Speaker 01

  No, she did like art projects, but she was mostly a mom and wife. And I'm always like torn about that.

• 17:32Ina Garten?

  And had to travel.

• 17:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 17:33Ina Garten?

  So it's really hard to, it's not like she could have a regular job.

• 17:37Speaker 01

  And she felt torn. But she was in the era of like, yeah, did you have home ec classes?

• 17:41Ina Garten?

  Yeah, I mean, I was supposed to take home ec, but I decided I wanted to take shop instead, which I did.

• 17:48Speaker 01

  That's so cool.

• 17:49Ina Garten?

  But in the 10 years from your mother to me, my generation, probably, I always think of this as a dividing line. When I was working in the government in the 70s, and Jeffrey was working in the State Department, I was working in the White House. We went to borrow money to buy a house. And the loan officer, I mean, this is really what your mother had to deal with. The loan officer just talked to Jeffrey.

• 18:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:12Ina Garten?

  Didn't even address me. And he said, you don't have enough money for this loan. And Jeffrey said, yeah, we do. We have two incomes. The loan officer said to Jeffrey, not to me, she's going to get pregnant and quit her job, so we can't count her salary.

• 18:24Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 18:25Ina Garten?

  And so that's what your mother had to deal with. And I was like, excuse me, I'm not quitting my job and I'm not getting pregnant. And he said, well, you don't even have any credit. So I literally went home and got all of our credit cards that were in Jeffrey's name and cut them in half and went out and got credit cards in my name.

• 18:42Speaker 01

  Oh, wow, yeah.

• 18:43Ina Garten?

  But we didn't have options then.

• 18:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, no, I think she was always so thrilled that I got to have a career and have children because she always felt like, her generation couldn't do both. Yeah, and she felt like you had to give up one or the other. And yeah, it was so, it changed so much, I think. And I feel so grateful to my mom's generation and the feminists in the 70s that were fighting for these rights so that we could take it for granted and just do things. But it's so, yeah, when I worked on the story about Priscilla Presley, I was thinking how I'm sort of in between Priscilla, my mom's generation, and then looking at my kids' generation and how women, what they could do. And because she was so kind of stuck without independence.

• 19:23Ina Garten?

  I think it must have been the early 80s. I was in, I had a specialty food store in West Hampton then. And Gloria Steinem walked down the street. And I said to the guys, the young women who worked for me, I said, oh, my God, that's Gloria Steinem. They said, who's she?

• 19:36Speaker 01

  No way.

• 19:36Ina Garten?

  And I've never done this before and I've never done it since. But I ran outside and I said, can you just come into the store? I need the young women that work for me to understand that you changed their lives. They had no idea. And she was really lovely. She did. She was, now that I think about it, I can't believe I corralled her. But fast forward, and you were on your way to Paris, actually, to work on the exhibit at Versailles.

• 20:00Speaker 01

  We filmed Marie Antoinette 20 years ago at Versailles. And they're doing an exhibit and bringing the costumes out. But at the time, my mom shot, she was a great documentary filmmaker. She filmed on some of my dad's sets. And so she was filming on the set. She came for a few weeks and filmed on the set.

• 20:16Ina Garten?

  She was a serious filmmaker herself.

• 20:18Speaker 01

  She made an incredible film, Hearts of Darkness, about on the set of Apocalypse Now, which is incredible. And this one is not as dramatic. It's our set, but yeah.

• 20:28Ina Garten?

  But it's so much fun. I love the photographs in here where they're in their costumes, their gorgeous costumes, outside, smoking a cigarette and on their cellphone.

• 20:35Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. I love seeing them out of character and behind the scenes. Yeah, it was really fun. So she shot, she loved all the costumes and the art department and the way they spent hours making this incredible period accurate food and the design, the flowers.

• 20:50Ina Garten?

  Just incredible.

• 20:51Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, our art department was incredible. And they were all based on the historical recipes with those gelatin molds.

• 20:58Ina Garten?

  And the macaroons.

• 20:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, they didn't actually eat macaroons back then. That was a stretch. But they were so pretty and it felt like.

• 21:06Ina Garten?

  Gorgeous, just gorgeous.

• 21:07Speaker 01

  And Pierre Ermay was the designer of them at that time. But it was really fun when they would come and we'd get to eat the desserts at the end of the day. But anyway, my mom, so she filmed on set. And then during the pandemic, well, she had never made anything with the footage. And she shot like 80, almost 100 hours of footage on the set. So during the pandemic, she wanted to get it out. We started looking at it. It was fun to revisit that time. And she really wanted to have it made into a film. So she passed away a few years ago and I finished it for her this past year. I've been working on it. So it's going to be at the New York Film Festival. And I'm really glad to finish this work.

• 21:46Ina Garten?

  And it's going to be shown in Versailles?

• 21:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're going to show some of it in Versailles. And then MUBI is releasing it. I think it's going to be on MUBI and in the theaters. Yeah, yeah. So it's a little embarrassing for me because I'm like a young, I mean, it's me 20 years ago and I'm not confident yet in like asserting my voice of how I want things. So I hope it's interesting for people to see like how people evolve and push to get their vision, I guess, across.

• 22:12Ina Garten?

  And also to work through that, you know, concern.

• 22:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. And just to see the incredible team and like how they made all the creation, how they made that world with me.

• 22:22Ina Garten?

  Everybody wants to see behind the scenes.

• 22:24Speaker 01

  I hope so.

• 22:25Ina Garten?

  Oh, 100%.

• 22:38Ina Garten?

  Support for the show comes from Whole Foods Market. One of my favorite things about cooking in the fall is that fresh seasonal ingredients give my dishes so much flavor. Pears, persimmons, fresh herbs, maple syrup, and sharp cheddar are so good together. And when you start with high quality ingredients, you don't have to do much to make a simple dish extraordinary. Whole Foods Market has an incredible selection of seasonal ingredients for every fall dish. They prioritize organic, sustainable, and premium grocery items. And they ban over 575 ingredients from the food they sell, including hydrogenated fats and high fructose corn syrup. So you can feel confident about what goes into your cart and onto your plate.

• 23:23Ina Garten?

  I'm a firm believer that the best meals start with the best ingredients. If the ingredients are wonderful, your cooking can be simple and delicious. For your next party, shop Whole Foods Market in store or online.

• 23:46Ina Garten?

  So you're celebrated for your style. I know people always talk to you about your style. How do you develop your own style? Is it consistency? Is it seeing things in the world that you like? Like you worked with Karl Lagerfeld. Are there things from Karl that you always take with you?

• 24:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think I just always loved clothes and fashion since I was a little kid. I was always interested in what my parents, friends were wearing. And it was just something I'm into and I think it's fun. And it's like escaped for me from work and stress. I just think it's fun. So I've always loved it. And yeah, I guess, I think you just find what you're comfortable in.

• 24:19Ina Garten?

  Exactly.

• 24:20Speaker 01

  I always, I'm like, I have a million Navy sweaters. And I'm like, I just know that I have my uniform.

• 24:25Ina Garten?

  Does that come in Navy?

• 24:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. That's me in my memoir.

• 24:29Ina Garten?

  There's another connection. You've talked about your father bought your mother Yves Saint Laurent.

• 24:35Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 24:36Ina Garten?

  Clothes, which I think you still have.

• 24:38Speaker 01

  Yes, I have some of them.

• 24:39Ina Garten?

  Do you know when Jeffrey and I were in Washington in the 70s, Reeve Gosh opened there.

• 24:44Speaker 01

  No way.

• 24:45Ina Garten?

  I don't know if you know this, that they were the first ready-to-wear couture stores. It was the first time that they had successful standalone stores. You could go buy Yves Saint Laurent clothes.

• 24:53Speaker 01

  I didn't realize that.

• 24:54Ina Garten?

  And they were sort of like lower, a lower price point. So they're.

• 24:57Speaker 01

  That was like late 70s.

• 24:58Ina Garten?

  It was, yeah, it was the 70s.

• 25:00Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, I wish I could go there.

• 25:02Ina Garten?

  And I don't know how Jeffrey did this on a government salary, but he marched in there and he bought me the most unbelievable outfit of, it was the Russian period, the Cosette clothes. Is that what you have?

• 25:12Speaker 01

  I have one of the velvet jackets. I love that collection.

• 25:16Ina Garten?

  That's what I have. I don't have it anymore. I wore it until it fell apart. But it was like a velvet jacket with silk lining.

• 25:21Speaker 01

  Yes, I'm going to show you next time. I wonder, I'll send you a picture if it's the same line.

• 25:25Ina Garten?

  Do you still wear it?

• 25:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 25:26Ina Garten?

  It's gorgeous. Saint Laurent felt that the clothes should feel as good on the inside as they look on the outside. Doesn't that feel incredible?

• 25:34Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 25:35Ina Garten?

  I also had a vest that was, I think it was hot, I think it was red with rickrack on it. And then it had a hot pink silk blouse that went underneath it. I mean, just the most gorgeous clothes.

• 25:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, I love the colors. Yeah, I love, I always look out for vintage Saint Laurent that late 70s. But my, yeah, my dad got my mom some in Paris. And it was that late 70s.

• 25:55Ina Garten?

  The same time, yeah.

• 25:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think, I feel like the Scandal collection was like, I think it was like 78 when they did all those 40s dresses. That was my favorite. Yeah, I love.

• 26:04Ina Garten?

  Did you ever see, there was an exhibit of Saint Laurent at the Petit Palais in Paris. Must have been 10 or 15 years ago.

• 26:12Speaker 01

  No, I heard about that. I didn't see it.

• 26:13Ina Garten?

  It was extraordinary. And my favorite part of it is what you were talking about before. It was done by Pierre Berger after Saint Laurent died. In the middle of the exhibit, there was a whole room that was just a disastrous show where everything, none of it worked. It had, they had the worst reviews. And the reviews were kind of wallpapered on the walls.

• 26:37Speaker 01

  I wonder if that was the Scandal collection.

• 26:39Ina Garten?

  Maybe that's what it was.

• 26:39Speaker 01

  Because people hated that.

• 26:40Ina Garten?

  He went after the street and got stuff from the street. Is that what that was?

• 26:44Speaker 01

  No, I think the Scandal one was like 40s and people were outraged because it was kind of looking like at the wartime and it wasn't, yeah.

• 26:51Ina Garten?

  Maybe that was.

• 26:51Speaker 01

  But they hated it at the time and it's like the best.

• 26:54Ina Garten?

  And what I loved is that, oh, well, maybe that's why he put, I always assumed Pierre Berger put it in so people would understand that, you know, if you're a designer, everything doesn't always work. But maybe he actually loved it. Maybe I've had it all wrong.

• 27:09Speaker 01

  No, no, I'm curious. No, but I think there's a lot of things that like people hated and then later appreciate.

• 27:13Ina Garten?

  How many things?

• 27:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I found a box of old reviews of Marie Antoinette and they were all terrible reviews. They were like a royal mess. They were like bad review after review. And it was just like, it's so fun that it survived and found a new audience that likes it. But I want to ask you, actually, my, so my aunt was so excited. I said, I was coming to see you. And she said, I have a few questions to ask her. And one of them was, how do you handle a bad review?

• 27:37Ina Garten?

  Oh, God.

• 27:40Ina Garten?

  I can't say that I've had, I think probably not being reviewed as a cookbook author would be more likely than getting a bad review.

• 27:47Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 27:48Ina Garten?

  What I particularly love is like on Instagram when people have bad things to say. I don't have to do anything because everybody else just piles on and says, go somewhere else. If you want to be mean, we don't want you here.

• 28:00Speaker 01

  That's good. Yeah, yeah, yeah, people love you and they'll look at you. That's good. You don't have to engage.

• 28:04Ina Garten?

  How do you handle a bad review?

• 28:06Speaker 01

  I don't look at them. I can't, yeah, I don't look at them.

• 28:08Ina Garten?

  It's like Stephen Sondheim. I mean, he got nothing but bad reviews when his shows came out. I mean, they were just disastrous. I remember going to, I think it was, might have been Into the Woods. I can't remember, one of them, and half the audience left.

• 28:22Speaker 01

  Really?

• 28:23Ina Garten?

  And I'm like, this is the most extraordinary thing I've ever seen.

• 28:26Speaker 01

  Oh, I didn't know that.

• 28:27Ina Garten?

  And 20 years later, he's just a genius. So you can't take them too seriously.

• 28:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 28:33Ina Garten?

  Because that's the answer. So you and I think, I think we like the same cities for style. What's a great day for you in Paris? Like you get up in the morning, you can do anything you want.

• 28:44Speaker 01

  I get really excited about the places that I love to go. I love to wander around Paris too because you always find anything. We are in Saint-Germain and I love, you know, when there's time just to wander around. There's an incredible little fruit and vegetable store on Rue de Grenelle by us. It's like a jewelry store.

• 29:00Ina Garten?

  I love that you go in and you want some pears. And they say, are you going to be eating them today or tomorrow?

• 29:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, and they pick the perfect.

• 29:07Ina Garten?

  They're like pear jam. Every single piece of fruit is perfect.

• 29:10Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 29:11Ina Garten?

  Rosa de Grenelle.

• 29:12Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 29:13Ina Garten?

  I love that place.

• 29:13Speaker 01

  I love that. Yes, we live near there. I love to go there. There's a little stationery store around the corner where I get my stationery.

• 29:20Ina Garten?

  On Rue de Bach?

• 29:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:21Ina Garten?

  I love that place. We go to the same places. And the cheese shop?

• 29:25Speaker 01

  And the cheese shop and all of that. And yeah, I just have my favorite places and wander around.

• 29:30Ina Garten?

  The cheese shop is Bartelloni. And I remember when Madame Bartelloni divorced Monsieur Bartelloni. And she, she put a sign on the store and said, Madame Bartelloni. So she shouldn't, you should know that it didn't have anything to do with him anymore.

• 29:45Speaker 01

  No way. That's so funny.

• 29:47Ina Garten?

  She was just great.

• 29:48Speaker 01

  I remember she was kind of tough, but now there's a new.

• 29:50Ina Garten?

  There's a new woman who's just fabulous. And I kind of loved her toughness. She was just kind of like.

• 29:55Speaker 01

  It felt very French, especially when you finally got her to accept you. It felt like a big victory.

• 30:00Ina Garten?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 30:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, I love to go to Cafe Flore and just sit inside with all the, see the Parisians.

• 30:08Ina Garten?

  It's the best. It's just, we arrive, we just drop our bags and we just go to the corner cafe and have a crime a tartine. And where they are, you feel like, if I had to go home right now, it wouldn't, it would be okay. It would be worth the trip.

• 30:21Speaker 01

  I go to Cafe Flore and get a full of coq, soft boiled eggs with the baguette strips. And now my daughter loves that too, so that's our thing. Or I love to go to get crepes at Cafe Brez, Odéon.

• 30:33Ina Garten?

  I don't know that.

• 30:34Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, the best crepes.

• 30:35Ina Garten?

  Oh, really?

• 30:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:36Ina Garten?

  We'll have to do that together.

• 30:37Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, yes. Like a classic ham and cheese crepe and my, yeah.

• 30:41Ina Garten?

  Oh, that sounds, that sounds just fabulous. So have you had like a sliding doors moment in your life? Like where it was a fork in the road, like everything changed?

• 30:51Speaker 01

  Oh, well, you could have gone a whole

• 30:52Ina Garten?

  You could have gone in a whole other direction.

• 30:54Speaker 01

  Oh, that's a good question. I never, I never thought about that. But I think I was living in Paris during Marie Antoinette, and then I met Tamara, who's my husband now. So I feel like my life totally changed because I had a baby in Paris, which was not in my plans when I started that movie. Yeah, and my daughter, Romi, was born in Paris.

• 31:12Ina Garten?

  While you were doing Marie Antoinette?

• 31:13Speaker 01

  After, after. Yeah, yeah, right after. So I guess that, but yeah, it's funny, I never

• 31:18Ina Garten?

  So she's French and American, then?

• 31:19Speaker 01

  Yes, yes. I'm so glad that, I'm so glad my kids have French passports. They speak French, because I struggle with languages, so I'm so glad.

• 31:26Ina Garten?

  I'm the worst.

• 31:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. I think I asked you, I'm always stressed about what to make for dinner when I'm just at home, it's something easy. There's just too many options. I think you said on your website, maybe there's like menus. Like, I look at cookbooks and I don't know what goes with what.

• 31:40Ina Garten?

  It's so interesting. It's really hard to know what goes with what.

• 31:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, is there a book or on your website that tells you, like, make this with this?

• 31:46Ina Garten?

  If you go on my website, I have menus. Because that's the hardest thing, is how to decide what, what things go with the chicken or beef or whatever. And, and so that the textures are right, the flavors are right, the colors are right. It's really complex.

• 32:02Speaker 01

  Oh, good.

• 32:02Ina Garten?

  And so, yeah, if you just go on the website.

• 32:04Speaker 01

  And there's casual menus, not like for entertaining?

• 32:06Ina Garten?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're like, you know, cocktail parties and dinners and family dinners and Thanksgiving and stuff like that.

• 32:12Speaker 01

  Okay, thank you.

• 32:13Ina Garten?

  Because it is, it's really hard.

• 32:15Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 32:15Ina Garten?

  And I usually start actually with the main course and then work backwards and forwards of what goes of what goes with that.

• 32:22Speaker 01

  Oh, I'm sorry, one of my other, my aunt's other questions were if you, do you have restaurants that you go to for like the specific dish that you have to get there? Like, we go to Mustard's in Yountville to get the pork chop. Like, do you have like your favorite dishes at certain places? In New York or Paris or anywhere?

• 32:39Ina Garten?

  Hmm, in New York. Well, I love Lilia in Brooklyn. Do you ever go there?

• 32:43Speaker 01

  Oh, no, I've never been there.

• 32:45Ina Garten?

  It's just so fantastic. It's Missy Robbins. Oh, well, then I can take you, I can take you to Lilia.

• 32:50Speaker 01

  Oh, I love it.

• 32:51Ina Garten?

  Because it's, it's very simple, but the flavors are huge. And whatever's in season is what she's cooking. And she does pastas, incredible pastas, and vegetables and we just love it. Yeah, Lilia is fabulous. What do you get here, what do you get in New York?

• 33:09Speaker 01

  I think via Carota, I go for their famous salad. And they have a chopped, like a burger, but there's a thing. It's just a chopped steak. Have you ever had that there?

• 33:18Ina Garten?

  No, I haven't.

• 33:19Speaker 01

  And the broccoli rob or whatever. That's my favorite thing.

• 33:21Ina Garten?

  I like the truffle pizza at the Mark, for Jean-Jacques' truffle pizza.

• 33:24Speaker 01

  I've never had that. Okay.

• 33:26Ina Garten?

  It's great. People claim that he puts more truffles on for me, so come with me.

• 33:30Speaker 01

  Okay, well.

• 33:31Ina Garten?

  Sophia?

• 33:32Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 33:33Ina Garten?

  Thank you so much. It's so fun.

• 33:35Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 33:36Ina Garten?

  Next time at Lilia.

• 33:41Ina Garten?

  Happy Hour is hosted by me, Ina Garten. Our executive producers are Jenna Weiss-Berman, Suzie Lechtenberg, Ali Jaffe Ramis, and Deborah Davis. Kate Tyler is a contributing producer, Justine Don, a senior producer. Mika Pollan-Bon is our associate producer. Tim Fernandez is the video editor, with sound recording by Joe Plord. Our camera operators for this episode are Joe Velenzuela and Gregory Pupura. Music for the show is by Pink Martini. Special thanks to cinematographer Dion Beebe. Happy Hour is produced by Goodway Productions and is a Vox Media podcast.

• 34:31Ina Garten?

  Support for the show comes from Whole Foods Market. There's something about autumn that makes everyone want to gather around the table. The flavors become brighter, the recipes a little more comforting, and even the simplest meals feel like celebrations. When you begin with high-quality ingredients, you don't have to do much to make them shine. From pomegranates and pears to thoughtfully curated cheeses from around the world, Whole Foods Market has beautiful, fresh ingredients that can work for you. For your next everyday meal or gathering with friends, shop Whole Foods Market in-store or online.