The Golden Globes Recap and 2025 TV Rundown. Plus, ‘Landman’ Episode 9

Chris and Andy talk about last night’s Golden Globes, including Nikki Glaser’s performance as the host, what makes a good acceptance speech, and the reign of ‘Shogun’ and ‘Hacks’ (01:00). Then, they break down their most anticipated shows of 2025, starting with shows ending or returning after a long period of time, such as ‘The Last of Us’ and ‘Stranger Things’ (33:25). Next, they discuss spinoffs coming in 2025, like a new series based on ‘The Office’ and ‘A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms’ (41:28); originals (50:06); and shows set in Philadelphia and whether they had anything to do with this (57:47). Finally, they discuss the most recent episode of ‘Landman,’ including Jerry Jones’s cameo (61:04). Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Audio Producer: Olivia Crerie Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Look, it's not that confusing. I'm Rob Harvilla, host of the podcast 60 Songs That Explain the 90s, except we did 120 songs. And now we're back with the 2000s. I refuse to say aughts. 2000 to 2009. The Strokes, Rihanna, J Lo, Kanye, sure. And now the show is called 60 Songs That Explain the 90s: The 2000s. Wow. That's too long a title for me to say anything else right now. Just trust me. That's 60 Songs That Explain the 90s: The 2000s, starting Wednesday, October 2nd, preferably on Spotify.

• 0:37Speaker 01

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• 1:37Speaker 00

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• 2:23Speaker 02

  I need supports to have to play the room. Stand up and walk now.

• 2:28Chris Ryan?

  Hello and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at theringer.com. And joining me in the studio, the leader of the Jerry Jones for Best Supporting Actor Golden Globe Mini Series or limited series, it's Andy Greenwald.

• 2:46Andy Greenwald?

  You're not wrong.

• 2:48Chris Ryan?

  Woo, what a fucking cameo on Land Man. We're gonna get to that. Uh, Greenwald, great to see your smiling face here.

• 2:55Andy Greenwald?

  Is this the closest we've ever sat to each other?

• 2:57Chris Ryan?

  No, we sat this close, uh, over the weekend.

• 2:59Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, we had dinner together, that's true.

• 3:00Chris Ryan?

  Elbow to elbow with you. It's great to see you. Happy January 6th. Happy post-Golden Globe celebration. Here we go.

• 3:07Andy Greenwald?

  Wow.

• 3:08Chris Ryan?

  Uh, United States of America, we give things away here. We give away awards and we're gonna talk a little bit about the Golden Globes. We're gonna talk a little bit about the most anticipated television of the year 2025, so I'm excited about that.

• 3:20Andy Greenwald?

  Now, to be clear, you're just gonna be talking about that like you did two years ago, right? And I'm just gonna be providing some light refreshment?

• 3:26Chris Ryan?

  If you wanna jump in and get on the blogs and find out what's... You probably know better than I do about what's coming out in 2025.

• 3:34Andy Greenwald?

  That's nice.

• 3:34Chris Ryan?

  You're an insider now.

• 3:35Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, yeah.

• 3:36Chris Ryan?

  And, uh, you choose not to drop mojebombs on me.

• 3:40Andy Greenwald?

  I think what we'll do is for that portion of the podcast, you will go through your list to me.

• 3:45Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 3:46Andy Greenwald?

  And I will cheat to camera, since we're on camera now, and I'll just do the windhorse fingers every time I know more than I'm letting on.

• 3:51Chris Ryan?

  That's right. Okay, so yeah, you can follow us, uh, here on video if you wanna watch us. We're on, uh, YouTube. You can watch us at the Ringer TV channel and subscribe, and please let us know in the comments how you think we look today. Andy's looking forward to that Globes last night, man. So I have a couple of comments, broadly speaking. What'd you think?

• 4:12Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, you want me to give my comments first?

• 4:14Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 4:15Andy Greenwald?

  Okay, well, I'd like to say, just for the sake of the Nielsen households, I tuned in for the entire broadcast.

• 4:20Chris Ryan?

  Way to go.

• 4:21Andy Greenwald?

  Made a nice night, and I, and this is, I know a lot of people-

• 4:23Chris Ryan?

  What was the food accompaniment?

• 4:25Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, should we start there? Yeah, I, I, nothing fancy. I broiled a little chicken. Maybe some cauliflower, some salad, rice. It was, it was a humble affair, but it got us through, thank you.

• 4:36Chris Ryan?

  What was the flavor profile of the chicken, though?

• 4:38Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, it's always, there's a lot of misos in the marinades, you know me.

• 4:41Chris Ryan?

  Come on.

• 4:42Andy Greenwald?

  New year, but same guy. Same, same food ways. A lot of people talk about how great it is to have NFL football games at 10 a.m., but I feel like underrated is having award shows at 5 p.m. That made, however long this was, didn't notice. Still had time to watch Landman afterwards. Broadly speaking, I enjoyed the evening, despite some truly, truly baffling producerial choices that I'm sure we'll speak about. I think that they did follow one of the most important cardinal rules of award shows, which many award shows get away from, which is hire someone to host who is a comedian and is used to being on stage.

• 5:17Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 5:18Andy Greenwald?

  Regardless of your personal feelings about Nikki Glaser-

• 5:20Chris Ryan?

  Very pro.

• 5:21Andy Greenwald?

  And I know you go at her in the comments often. She was really solid.

• 5:25Chris Ryan?

  Let me tell you something. I've watched, I've watched F-Boy Island. I'm a, I'm a fan of Nikki Glaser.

• 5:30Andy Greenwald?

  Is that true?

• 5:30Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, my wife watched it. I was, I was checked it out, yeah.

• 5:33Andy Greenwald?

  Every time, I think there's a limit-

• 5:35Chris Ryan?

  No, there is no limit.

• 5:36Andy Greenwald?

  To the things that you've watched.

• 5:37Chris Ryan?

  There is no limit.

• 5:38Andy Greenwald?

  Wow.

• 5:38Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 5:39Andy Greenwald?

  She's great, and she was really solid, and she was very entertaining. And like, she's a pro. It's just funny how many times they try to wedge people into these roles who can't do it. Hosting, as you know, is a skill.

• 5:50Chris Ryan?

  Let me jump in there and just say, I noticed in the lead up to the evening, there was a couple of Nikki Glaser interviews and profiles. And a lot of people were like, are you gonna bring your merciless roast style to the Globes? And are you gonna go after like, the Baldoni Live League suit and stuff like that? She was like, no, this is not gonna be my last Globes. Like, I have like, a vision for what I wanna do. And watching her, you were kinda like, you should probably just host this for a while, like-

• 6:16Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, it's fine. And also, you know what else was kind of refreshing from her overall performance as host? Near the end, she was like, I loved this. This was really fun.

• 6:23Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 6:24Andy Greenwald?

  I'm a little tired of hosts being like, well, this sucks, get me off of this stage. That's not that cute.

• 6:30Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, yeah. So they did, they did well there. I would say that it baffles me that we still have like, teleprompter fa, like, fallops. In 2024, just when you're dealing with that level of celebrity, you'd think that like the number one thing would be like, hey, if the prompter's failing, it's just a guy there with a cue card, you know, like.

• 6:48Andy Greenwald?

  Well, also, people spend, you know, as you know, quite a bit of time preparing their looks, being on the red carpet, being photographed, being talked about. And then someone at Penske Enterprises was like, when people come on stage, let's do a real awkward, jammed up two-shot, where we can't see the outfits that they're wearing, or they're being pushed off-frame by the chiffon brocade or whatever around their neck.

• 7:11Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 7:12Andy Greenwald?

  And that somehow accentuated the awkwardness.

• 7:16Chris Ryan?

  I listened to you ready to wear chiffon brocade.

• 7:16Andy Greenwald?

  I think I pronounced it wrong.

• 7:18Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 7:18Andy Greenwald?

  I think it's, we'll come back.

• 7:20Chris Ryan?

  You want to start the pod over?

• 7:21Andy Greenwald?

  Could we? Could we just do this Thursday? I'm not really feeling it today. I think that the proximity messed up the teleprompter stuff even more and made the awkward beats worse. There were only two groupings that succeeded.

• 7:34Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 7:35Andy Greenwald?

  I think the entire night. One was obviously the courageous Canadians. Rogan and O'Hara were great and like,

• 7:41Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 7:41Andy Greenwald?

  let them just cook, let them do whatever they want, they're funny. And then the other one that I couldn't get over was Coleman Domingo and Salma Hayek, because she seemed, between us, on one. And I was like, this is the greatest.

• 7:53Chris Ryan?

  That was, that's old school Globes.

• 7:54Andy Greenwald?

  But forget Sing Sing. Coleman Domingo's performance, holding space for her and being present in every unexpected moment was the greatest performance on screen I've seen this year.

• 8:05Chris Ryan?

  Um.

• 8:06Andy Greenwald?

  He's, he's amazing.

• 8:07Chris Ryan?

  I, I don't have a lot to say about the television winners because it's essentially a redo of the Emmys. So Bear, Shogun, Hacks, Jeremy Allen White, Anna Sawai, Hiroyuki Sanada, Baby Reindeer, Jessica Gunning. Oh, she did not win before, I guess. She did not win the Emmy.

• 8:27Andy Greenwald?

  She did not.

• 8:28Chris Ryan?

  She did not.

• 8:29Andy Greenwald?

  I, I was asking.

• 8:30Chris Ryan?

  I don't think she won the Emmy. I, I think somebody else did. And Jodie Foster, that was all repeat business. Colin Farrell beat Richard Gad in mini-series Actor and.

• 8:40Andy Greenwald?

  I think Penguin hadn't premiered in the Emmy window.

• 8:42Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, and Tadano, uh, Tadano Asano won for Best Supporting Actor.

• 8:47Andy Greenwald?

  Mm-hmm.

• 8:48Chris Ryan?

  Um, in a drama.

• 8:49Andy Greenwald?

  That was awesome. Love him.

• 8:51Chris Ryan?

  It was all good. I, you know, like, this is, I have like a larger point I'd like to make about the, what we could do to make the Globes slightly more useful to.

• 9:00Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 9:00Chris Ryan?

  you and I, but. Uh, do you have any like further observations about Shogun's reign or Hax's reign?

• 9:09Andy Greenwald?

  Well, I think my big takeaway from the TV side is it's kind of a bummer because the Globes, in its previous incarnation, used to be many things, including a international tax dodge by a shadowy cabal of international weirdos. It also, because of its placement in the calendar in January, traditionally was A, insane, B, drunk, but C, also a little bit visionary, because this was the award show that that came on after the fall premieres, and not just necessarily the broadcast premieres. So, the Golden Globes, I mean, to me, I always remember this, were the first ones to put down a marker and say Homeland's really cooking.

• 9:46Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 9:47Andy Greenwald?

  Like Homeland won Best Drama, Claire Danes won, and it was like, wait, wait a second, is this happening industry-wise kind of thing? And it was very, it felt like it was forward-looking.

• 9:56Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 9:56Andy Greenwald?

  For the shows that we were going to be talking about, and the Emmys were going to be playing catch-up. Very odd, and maybe a referendum on how the TV calendar is basically meaningless. Sorry to shit on your segment that's coming up, that it is just a rehash now. And that even, you know, when we had Anna Sawai on the pod, which we did, by the way, recently.

• 10:13Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 10:14Andy Greenwald?

  She seemed a little bit like, I can't believe I'm still going to award shows for this.

• 10:17Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, we did Episode of the Year for Crimson Sky, Shogun, and Anna Sawai, we were kind of like, she was kind of like, I can't believe I'm still talking about Shogun, like, in the most effervescent and like thankful and appreciative way, but they probably shot Crimson Sky like three years ago, right?

• 10:34Andy Greenwald?

  Yes, they probably shot it longer ago than apparently they shot The Brutalist. Also, The Factoids, like, that's the best we can do on the bottom of the screen, where it was just like, he really likes Dungeons and Dragons. Rosnahan's was, she was on the wrestling team.

• 10:49Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 10:49Andy Greenwald?

  And then The Brutalist was just constantly like, boy, this was really long, and they shot it like pre-COVID, which they didn't, but it seemed like it. Yeah, I thought, you and I, well, or mostly me, I feel like, are on the record not super vibing with Penguin.

• 11:04Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 11:04Andy Greenwald?

  But we are also very much on the record, over a decade of work now, of thinking Colin Farrell is, I'm happy for him, the best.

• 11:09Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 11:10Andy Greenwald?

  The loveliest man alive. His speech was wonderful. There were a lot of good speeches.

• 11:15Chris Ryan?

  Did he go, Casey Boyes?

• 11:17Andy Greenwald?

  He did.

• 11:17Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. You did.

• 11:19Andy Greenwald?

  Thanks, Casey. His little bromance with Andrew Scott, very cute. Like, you're just like, I'm like, Chris, clear out some space for me to praise Colin Farrell, and you're like tapping your watch.

• 11:28Chris Ryan?

  I'm not tapping my watch. I mean, I think it's actually okay to be like, it's cool to Colin Farrell as a person one I I could take or leave Penguin.

• 11:38Andy Greenwald?

  I left it, but I'm happy for him.

• 11:40Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 11:40Andy Greenwald?

  And how, where are you in your award show enjoyments or in your industry jadedness in terms of speeches? Because, maybe this is a pivot to the movie side of it, like, to me, this was a successful award show, separate and apart from whatever odd choices they made, or surprises happened, or didn't happen, or all the producerial stuff. Because Zoe Saldana was awesome.

• 12:05Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 12:05Andy Greenwald?

  Accepting award for a movie I have not seen yet.

• 12:07Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 12:08Andy Greenwald?

  Demi Moore was surprising and awesome.

• 12:10Chris Ryan?

  Demi Moore was awesome.

• 12:10Andy Greenwald?

  Giving a speech, again, for a movie I likely will never see.

• 12:13Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. You will not see that.

• 12:15Andy Greenwald?

  And similarly, no, I just wanted to keep the hope alive. But also, but Colin Farrell, being the beautiful person that he is, thanking not just the makeup people, but taking the time to thank craft services for bringing him coconut water when he was sweating to death under this nightmare latex.

• 12:31Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 12:31Andy Greenwald?

  It's nice. It still works for me. That still means something.

• 12:34Chris Ryan?

  Just don't understand sometimes the math on why, like, certain speeches go on for six minutes, and Zoe Saldana is getting played off after like 40 seconds.

• 12:44Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 12:45Chris Ryan?

  I think at the beginning of the show, maybe they're like, we have a schedule to keep.

• 12:48Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, for sure.

• 12:49Chris Ryan?

  And then maybe they get later on and they're like, oh, actually, we have like a few minutes here, so like, feel free to cook the whole entire crew from Wicked or whatever, you know?

• 12:58Andy Greenwald?

  No, what's incredible, and like, the heaviest crown in Hollywood is the person who's the professional.

• 13:05Chris Ryan?

  Heaviest head?

• 13:06Andy Greenwald?

  No, the crown is the heaviest.

• 13:07Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 13:07Andy Greenwald?

  Thus, the neck is, the head is.

• 13:10Chris Ryan?

  Heavy is the head that wears the crown, though.

• 13:11Andy Greenwald?

  Right.

• 13:12Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 13:12Andy Greenwald?

  So you're saying, but what makes the head so heavy? Is it congested?

• 13:15Chris Ryan?

  No, it's the crown.

• 13:16Andy Greenwald?

  Okay, so I think it's still grammatically accurate to say that the crown is heavy.

• 13:20Chris Ryan?

  I'm sorry to interrupt. Go ahead.

• 13:22Andy Greenwald?

  No, I think it's a good question.

• 13:23Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 13:23Andy Greenwald?

  We should interrogate our language choices more in 2025.

• 13:27Chris Ryan?

  I'm just asking.

• 13:28Andy Greenwald?

  We should do your own research on this one. The person who's like the empathy consultant, who's sitting there, like, doing the Jonas Serra glasses, you know, in the mouth, in the booth, being like, no, no. Let her speak.

• 13:39Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 13:40Andy Greenwald?

  If you, if when the music starts, you seem like you've got a couple more yards to go to get to, clear the goal line, you know, and you're gonna start talking about some loss in your life, or family members, they let you stay.

• 13:51Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. If it's Kieran Culkin and he's just like, "Ah, who gives a shit."

• 13:54Andy Greenwald?

  Everybody likes that too.

• 13:55Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 13:56Andy Greenwald?

  I don't know if people like NSYNC being like, "This is sick, bye."

• 13:59Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 14:00Andy Greenwald?

  I think they don't want that.

• 14:02Chris Ryan?

  I think they want the perfect, I think Demi Moore was like the perfect example of like heartfelt, really appreciative, but also not belabored and going through like a 45, like, name list of people from Gersh and CAA that they need to thank and they're all named Barry, you know, like it's, it's like definitely, uh, there's an art to it.

• 14:22Andy Greenwald?

  What you're saying. I, I, I think, did you see The Substance?

• 14:27Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 14:27Andy Greenwald?

  How you feeling about that?

• 14:28Chris Ryan?

  Uh, I think I saw it, knowing too much about it and, and actually weirdly seeing too much of it on social media.

• 14:35Andy Greenwald?

  Right.

• 14:36Chris Ryan?

  So I think a lot of the moments that would have hit if I had just gone and seen The Substance like opening weekend, were a little bit dulled for me, but I, I thought that the two performances were incredible. I, it wasn't my favorite horror film of the year.

• 14:48Andy Greenwald?

  Did your opinion change when you rewatched it with your mom over the holidays?

• 14:52Chris Ryan?

  No, I tried to watch Romulus with my mom, she kept falling asleep.

• 14:55Andy Greenwald?

  Did you?

• 14:55Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, and that, we love alien movies in my house.

• 14:58Andy Greenwald?

  Okay, so just to paint the Ryan family picture, your dad was bringing the six pack to McDonald's and your mom was firing up the Nostromo?

• 15:07Chris Ryan?

  This actually tracks.

• 15:08Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah. Um, I thought the Demi Moore thing, especially on a night when I watched her give her longest performance on Landman to date, where a man tells her to take her husband on vacation for the good of his cardiac health?

• 15:21Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 15:22Andy Greenwald?

  Was striking.

• 15:24Chris Ryan?

  I thought that that, we, we can get to that.

• 15:26Andy Greenwald?

  No, we're not touching on that yet. I thought Demi Moore's speech was pretty remarkable and pretty honest.

• 15:32Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 15:33Andy Greenwald?

  Pretty, I don't know, I, I don't think the Hollywood culture of the beginning of Hollywood until roughly six years ago needs to be redammed. Like, I don't think it's

• 15:43Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 15:43Andy Greenwald?

  newly damning, but I did think it was interesting, especially on a night when Pamela Anderson is also nominated for, for, for performance, and you do get a sense of like, how many chances do people get, particularly if you're a woman in this business? And that was cool.

• 15:55Chris Ryan?

  I have a question about Shogun.

• 15:57Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 15:58Chris Ryan?

  Because-

• 16:00Chris Ryan?

  Obviously, like, because we did the best episode. I started thinking about that series again, and it really did occur to me. You know, it finally dawned on me that they're gonna try and do this again.

• 16:08Andy Greenwald?

  They're hard at work.

• 16:09Chris Ryan?

  And I was curious whether you felt like now with this now second run of awards hosannas being thrown at their feet. Does this put any extra pressure on the second season that maybe wouldn't have been there necessarily?

• 16:24Andy Greenwald?

  I mean, how could it have more pressure? I can't imagine heavier those hits.

• 16:27Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 16:28Andy Greenwald?

  Is what I'm saying.

• 16:28Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 16:29Andy Greenwald?

  I don't think winning the Golden Globes six months or whatever it was, three months, 10 months, what's time, by the way, since the Emmys?

• 16:35Chris Ryan?

  Here's what I'm asking, is that like, this is obviously, they're going literally off book, they're going off the Richard Clavel novel, and now creating some new... James Clavel. James Clavel, sorry. Richard Chamberlain was in the original mini-series.

• 16:47Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, they're going off of his last will and testament for...

• 16:50Chris Ryan?

  I think that they're gonna be doing their own thing. They are at least now without their decorated star, Anasoi, one of their stars, and...

• 17:03Andy Greenwald?

  At least in a non-flashback type role.

• 17:05Chris Ryan?

  Well, or unless they recast her as somebody else, Deadwood style.

• 17:09Andy Greenwald?

  Ooh, I like where you're going with this.

• 17:11Chris Ryan?

  Which I think I suggested. I just wonder whether or not this now is a different kind of show. I mean, this is a huge hit that's been, had a year-long awards run.

• 17:20Andy Greenwald?

  It's absolutely a different show, and slight spoilers here for anyone who hasn't been spoiled on Shogun. The decision-making that we have been celebrating about, that Justin and Rachel and the rest of the team made in the first season, the bravery that we credited them with, those are not the types of decisions you make if you are doing an ongoing drama.

• 17:38Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 17:39Andy Greenwald?

  If you strike gold with Anasoi, you flinch, you punt, you have a very different outcome to that season.

• 17:45Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 17:46Andy Greenwald?

  And what that means going forward, I don't know. I think the best-case scenario is the show comes back, obviously with a head full of steam, hopefully, and a brilliant, sorry, guys, for putting more pressure on you, conception for what the show is, but hopefully it also returns with a generous audience, willing to understand that the first season is bracketed as a limited series, really, and that now it's gonna be built for a much longer campaign. And literally a campaign, in that I suppose now the show will be about Hirayuki Sonoda's character, whose name I'm blanking on in this moment, longer quest...

• 18:20Chris Ryan?

  Toranaga.

• 18:21Andy Greenwald?

  Toranaga's quest to become, as he would put it, Shogun.

• 18:23Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 18:24Andy Greenwald?

  So... It's interesting, the bear stuff, I mean, just to pivot, just to run through the TV stuff briefly before we go to movies, like, Jeremy Allen White not even being there, because I guess he's in Nebraska or whatever.

• 18:36Chris Ryan?

  He's in New Jersey, yeah.

• 18:38Andy Greenwald?

  Well, I meant, there's an album called Nebraska. I don't know if you're familiar with Bruce Springsteen's work.

• 18:41Chris Ryan?

  Do you see what I'm fucking wearing today? Of course I'm familiar with Nebraska.

• 18:45Andy Greenwald?

  Cosplaying right now. You're gonna be first alternate if Jeremy blinks.

• 18:50Chris Ryan?

  That's right. Sorry, sorry, folks, tonight playing the role of Bruce Springsteen. Is this man who's 20 years older than Bruce Springsteen was when he made Nebraska?

• 19:00Andy Greenwald?

  But has watched all the Alien films with his mom, so it brings a certain emotional torment to the performance.

• 19:06Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, that's how you fucking really sell Johnny 99.

• 19:11Andy Greenwald?

  Not being there for this while winning yet another award for his comedic performance, surrounded by, I mean, he beat, in this category, Steve Martin, Martin Short, Ted Danson, among others, right?

• 19:23Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 19:24Andy Greenwald?

  It's stupid, like, it felt-

• 19:25Chris Ryan?

  I'm not relitigating this.

• 19:26Andy Greenwald?

  I'm not, it just felt a lot-

• 19:27Chris Ryan?

  It's not our job, I don't know why it's happening.

• 19:29Andy Greenwald?

  It felt stupid.

• 19:30Chris Ryan?

  It's not FX's job to put it in drama.

• 19:32Andy Greenwald?

  No, but it felt stupider.

• 19:34Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, because he wasn't there.

• 19:35Andy Greenwald?

  No, just him not being there, and then also just the winning, it brought it back up again, and it felt even more like a joke, honestly. Any other surprises, or there were no surprises?

• 19:45Chris Ryan?

  There was literally no surprises. There was, I, I, I thought, uh, Tada Nobu Asano was really good.

• 19:51Andy Greenwald?

  That's awesome. He's a great actor.

• 19:53Chris Ryan?

  He was, it was a delightful presence. I think it was indicative of what the show could have used more of, which was different winners, but,

• 19:59Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 20:00Chris Ryan?

  Uh, obviously, it just, it just so happens that where the Emmys and the Globes fall, I think the TV part of the Globes is inevitably gonna feel a little bit stale.

• 20:08Andy Greenwald?

  I am also interested in the fact that for as much as TV has changed, and even these award shows have changed to a degree, especially with the rise of limited series, or quote unquote, limited series, the sheer amount of new programming and pilots that we go through every year, that the voters, and to be clear, we don't know who these Golden Globe voters are anymore.

• 20:27Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 20:28Andy Greenwald?

  Still kind of default into, well, I guess that's the best one, meaning, you know, there were the years where West Wing, an excellent show, won every year, or Frasier won every year. Hacks has become that, and I do think it's sort of strange when, you know, maybe, maybe we are in a bubble, but that we both agreed that we felt this most recent season was weaker than the previous two, but the general goodwill for the success of that project, which I do not deny in any way. Has carried it over, so now it has become the kind of the standard bearer for like, well, this we generally agree on is the best comic.

• 20:59Chris Ryan?

  Let me look and see, what did Hacks be? So it was up against Abbott.

• 21:03Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 21:03Chris Ryan?

  Which I still watch, and which probably, I don't know if I would say it's like, still at its like, creative peak that it was in the first couple of seasons.

• 21:12Andy Greenwald?

  No, and but it is.

• 21:13Chris Ryan?

  But it's still incredibly enjoyable.

• 21:15Andy Greenwald?

  And they make 20 a year.

• 21:16Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 21:16Andy Greenwald?

  And no one else does that. That's hard.

• 21:18Chris Ryan?

  The Bear, which was, which you just talked about, like a sort of category fraud in some, in some extent. The Gentleman, which I really enjoyed.

• 21:27Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, I do too.

• 21:28Chris Ryan?

  Hacks, Nobody Wants This, which would have been an interesting curveball.

• 21:32Andy Greenwald?

  I was surprised. Let me say this. Overall, from last night's award show, I got the sense that Netflix is to these new Golden Globes the way Elon Musk was to Trump 2024. I was shocked, shocked, that Nobody Wants This didn't win at least one award. That was very odd to me.

• 21:50Chris Ryan?

  I certainly didn't think it was just gonna be like, to your point, I did not anticipate Hacks being this kind of juggernaut. Where it's like now a modern family or something like that. Well, I guess it's not that, because it's, it still has The Bear to deal with in these categories, but.

• 22:04Andy Greenwald?

  But let me just speak like, just subjectively. I, for whatever issues I had with Hacks season three, I thought generally it was of a higher consistent quality than Nobody Wants This season one.

• 22:15Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 22:16Andy Greenwald?

  But I kind of feel like the Globes, forget, even forget the Netflix paola that I seem to be sensing over the entire event. I kind of felt like it would have been more Globes-y to anoint the hotter thing. You know, like I, forget what was good or not good, but like, it would have been Globes-er to be like, you all like this, right? We're celebrating it too.

• 22:34Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, if it was a popularity contest, it probably would be good for the show, and it would be an interesting, you know, I was listening to Sean and Amanda and Joanne on the Big Picture talk about, what do the sort of move, the inside the movie media industrial complex people want? Do they want?

• 22:51Chris Ryan?

  Films that they think are like the best films of the year to be awarded? Or do they want popular films to try and recapture the glory days of Billy Crystal and Tom Cruise? And Jack Nicholson and everybody at the Oscars and it getting 45 million, 40 million people watching? And they were really talking it through in a fascinating way. The TV side of it, I don't think the TV awards show, uh, sort of system has that kind of level of attraction to people like I think we've, I, I even people, as people who've been doing this show now for 13 years almost. Like the Emmys for a long chunk of when we've been doing this podcast have been sort of an afterthought. Because a lot of the things that were being awarded were not only a little bit outside of our, our taste level, but also like,

• 23:35Chris Ryan?

  it just seemed like it was like a foregone conclusion that like you're saying, like West Wing's just gonna win every year. Mad Men's just gonna win every, not Mad Men, Modern Family's just gonna win comedy every year. It's not about like, sort of taking new stuff and throwing it into the pot.

• 23:48Andy Greenwald?

  Well, that was true for the first half of those 13 years, but then Game of Thrones started winning.

• 23:53Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 23:53Andy Greenwald?

  And again, it seemed, it seemed like sort of stuck between stations because Kathy Bates was nominated, right? And, and was there. Madlock is a huge show and it was odd, especially the, also with the shows being on CBS now, like, I guess I am a little bit surprised that like Elspeth doesn't get some nominations in this anymore. That they are still catering to the same small niche that we personally are catering to. For what it's worth about, nobody wants this, everybody looked happy and shout out to our friend and, and guest, Tim Simons, who looked great in his Brooks Brothers suit. I wanted to let him know I saw his shoulder at one point when NSOY won. So I thought that was good.

• 24:30Chris Ryan?

  I had one idea for this whole entire charade.

• 24:33Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 24:35Chris Ryan?

  I watched the Globes after a day of watching some pretty ridiculous football.

• 24:39Andy Greenwald?

  Amen, brother.

• 24:40Chris Ryan?

  But a lot of those games had some, whether it was draft position or playoff position seeding, whether the team was gonna get in or not. So there's a lot of stakes. The Globes. Obviously, when you see people win Globes, like, they're like, "Holy shit, I won." You know, like, Zoe Saldana, you burst into tears.

• 24:57Andy Greenwald?

  That was wild. Does she know that it was a Globe?

• 24:59Chris Ryan?

  But I wonder whether or not what the entire awards ecosystem needs is a gamification, even more so than just winning awards.

• 25:07Andy Greenwald?

  I'm loving this. Let's go with this.

• 25:08Chris Ryan?

  So, should the Globes function as like an NFC and AFC championship for the Oscars?

• 25:13Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 25:14Chris Ryan?

  And the Emmys?

• 25:14Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, like, you have to clear this?

• 25:16Chris Ryan?

  Yes. Yeah. So, we drop down Best Picture back down to like five or six nominees.

• 25:22Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, wow.

• 25:23Chris Ryan?

  But you have, it's basically the top five or six from the two categories get nominated for BPA.

• 25:29Andy Greenwald?

  But who decides?

• 25:30Chris Ryan?

  That's the thing, is that the Academy would have to buy the Globes. Like, they would have to subsume the Globes.

• 25:35Andy Greenwald?

  And it would be like the NIT?

• 25:37Chris Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 25:38Andy Greenwald?

  But the winner of the NIT that's go to the...

• 25:39Chris Ryan?

  No, it would be the Sweet Sixteen.

• 25:41Andy Greenwald?

  I see.

• 25:42Chris Ryan?

  Uh, or, you know, like, the Elite Eight going into the Final Four that is the Oscars.

• 25:47Andy Greenwald?

  So, it would be the same voters?

• 25:49Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, but you would be voting on, it would be like Survivor, like, you'd be voting like, it would be like Survivor if somebody played an idol and they were like, "Now, you can't vote for this person."

• 25:57Andy Greenwald?

  Is this all because you disliked Enora?

• 25:59Chris Ryan?

  No, I love Enora.

• 26:00Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, just checking, because that would have eliminated...

• 26:03Chris Ryan?

  Did you watch Enora this weekend?

• 26:04Andy Greenwald?

  No, I didn't get to it. I'm dying to see it.

• 26:05Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 26:06Andy Greenwald?

  You know I'm gonna like this movie, right? Right?

• 26:08Chris Ryan?

  I hope so.

• 26:09Andy Greenwald?

  You thought I was gonna like Conclave. You never know.

• 26:11Chris Ryan?

  I know, you really are.

• 26:12Andy Greenwald?

  You could never know.

• 26:13Chris Ryan?

  Anyway, I just had a, I just thought that there would be a way to, like, bunch these precursor events so that they fed into the Oscars. But then I wonder whether or not, and it would also make it so that, like, when Zoe Saldana wins.

• 26:27Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 26:28Chris Ryan?

  She's like, "Holy shit, I just got nominated for an Oscar."

• 26:30Andy Greenwald?

  For, oh, because in my mind...

• 26:32Chris Ryan?

  Because she wins a Globe, she, like, automatically gets...

• 26:34Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, that she gets a spot?

• 26:36Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 26:36Andy Greenwald?

  What about that, though? What if it was just that, that if you win a Globe, one of the spots is taken?

• 26:40Chris Ryan?

  Is yours.

• 26:42Andy Greenwald?

  I like that.

• 26:42Chris Ryan?

  It's just an idea.

• 26:43Andy Greenwald?

  I like that. Now, did you get, did you feel like she won a little bit for Lioness, too? Like, a little bit? Were you thinking, because I feel like neither of us seen Emilio Perez yet.

• 26:52Chris Ryan?

  Do you know what I did, though? As soon as it was over, as soon as the award show was over, I went to dinner. And then, when I got back from dinner,

• 26:58Andy Greenwald?

  It's good.

• 26:59Chris Ryan?

  I, uh, watched Emilio Perez.

• 27:02Andy Greenwald?

  You did?

• 27:02Chris Ryan?

  For 45 minutes.

• 27:04Andy Greenwald?

  Classic Netflix.

• 27:05Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. I thought it was pretty crazy.

• 27:09Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 27:09Chris Ryan?

  It's pretty crazy that this is gonna be an Oscar favorite, I guess. Because it just, every time somebody's like, yeah, but Emilio Perez is not really gonna like, it's like, well, it just racked up all these.

• 27:19Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 27:20Chris Ryan?

  Sort of, I don't know.

• 27:21Andy Greenwald?

  Who is the, this is unfair. We are not, I'm not a trained movie professional.

• 27:26Chris Ryan?

  You know what it reminded me a lot of? I know it's a musical and I know musicals can kind of feel this way sometimes. It felt like scrolling. So like every time you'd be in a mood or in a scene or in a dramatic reality in this, in this movie, it would just like scroll to a completely different vibe all of a sudden.

• 27:42Andy Greenwald?

  Well, Odiard like is a wild guy. Like he likes to mess. It's interesting you say that because I've read something similar about Substance. That it's just like, it's like, uh, almost like vertically shot for TikTok, like where the scenes go so fast.

• 27:57Chris Ryan?

  Oh, see, I didn't find that with The Substance. I found The Substance to be rather claustrophobic.

• 28:01Andy Greenwald?

  And Nickel Boys, which I have also not seen, has a lot of like POV stuff.

• 28:06Chris Ryan?

  Entirely POV.

• 28:08Andy Greenwald?

  I mean, that.

• 28:09Chris Ryan?

  Much like, uh, Perfect Dark.

• 28:12Andy Greenwald?

  Thank you. Now you're putting in terms that I can understand.

• 28:16Chris Ryan?

  It's like basically GoldenEye.

• 28:17Andy Greenwald?

  I mean, I do think, I, I, I am not the person for this conversation. I would like to, in the same way Zoe Saldana has now been upscaled to the Oscars. I would like to take this conversation and gift it up to Sean and Amanda. And who's the third guy who's on that show sometimes?

• 28:29Chris Ryan?

  No, Joanna was on last night. She, because Joanna does the award stuff. But sometimes I'm on, yeah.

• 28:34Andy Greenwald?

  To have a conversation about filmmakers' attempts to grapple with changing ratios and attention spans, like if there is a larger.

• 28:40Chris Ryan?

  Like aspect ratios?

• 28:41Andy Greenwald?

  Aspect ratio, but also like, what you just said about a movie feeling like scrolling might be a reason why Netflix was motivated to engage with it. You know?

• 28:50Chris Ryan?

  Possibly.

• 28:50Andy Greenwald?

  It, it's possible. It was surprising though, because I didn't really, and again, I've not watched a lot of these movies, but it did feel a little bit like coming into this award show, there were a bunch of well-regarded movies, but I didn't feel the factionalism of the past few years. Like, the people who love X are massing behind as a voting bloc, or is even as an online support group behind whatever. In the way, like a few years ago, it was like, there was the people who thought Shape of Water was good, and the people who were like, no, I disagree. Or what, it just felt like, yeah, there are five or six movies that are interesting.

• 29:21Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 29:21Andy Greenwald?

  Or worthwhile.

• 29:22Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 29:23Andy Greenwald?

  And I didn't really understand the competitive nature of it, or who was the block behind one thing or another. So for Emilio Perez to suddenly like leapfrog as a thing. Maybe that is significant, even if they don't automatically get births in the Oscars from this.

• 29:36Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I think that my fascination with awards season tends to be more about like to the extent to which awards and the run, the promo run that people go on for awards, especially the movies that I feel like are either under distributed or under seen, help awareness of those films. So I have no idea how many people on Netflix have seen Amelia Perez, but I think a good example of this would be Fernanda Torres, who won for-

• 30:02Andy Greenwald?

  Just who I called out. That was wild.

• 30:04Chris Ryan?

  Was it called I'm Not There? I'm Still There.

• 30:06Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, I'm Still Here.

• 30:08Chris Ryan?

  I'm Still Here, sorry. I just got Bob Dylan on the, on the brain.

• 30:10Andy Greenwald?

  Clearly.

• 30:11Chris Ryan?

  Never heard of this movie. And I don't know if it came and went, or has yet to come out, or whatever, but like, that's exactly the kind of thing where like, she won and I was like, oh, okay, I guess I gotta check this out.

• 30:24Andy Greenwald?

  I like that.

• 30:24Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 30:24Andy Greenwald?

  I, I also was, you know, I'm joking about like, big Netflix supporter of this, like there were other ones that were surprising in kind of shocking ways. I think it's probably the category that you took a bathroom break during, but animated film had-

• 30:39Chris Ryan?

  Flo.

• 30:39Andy Greenwald?

  Heavy hitters.

• 30:40Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, and Flo upset everybody.

• 30:42Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 30:43Chris Ryan?

  The cat.

• 30:43Andy Greenwald?

  The cat, the Latvian cat.

• 30:45Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 30:45Andy Greenwald?

  Catvia.

• 30:46Chris Ryan?

  It's like Mao's favorite movie of all time.

• 30:48Andy Greenwald?

  Is it really?

• 30:49Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 30:49Andy Greenwald?

  I felt like I really failed as a father, that I had not shown this movie to my children. Like when I, I say a lot of things to them from the front seat on the way to school, and I assume almost none of it is of interest.

• 31:01Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 31:02Andy Greenwald?

  They-

• 31:02Chris Ryan?

  Shovel Road sounds a lot like Kate Bush.

• 31:05Andy Greenwald?

  You should have heard me supporting talking. He played some like Taylor B-side, and they're like, what'd you think? And I was like, oh, it was actually clever observational songwriter. I have to be stopped.

• 31:13Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I know.

• 31:14Andy Greenwald?

  I really, I know, you know.

• 31:16Chris Ryan?

  They should have like a little limousine window that goes up.

• 31:19Andy Greenwald?

  No, it would never come down. The, uh, they leaned in when I said, there's a cat movie that won Best Animated Picture. But I can't tell if you'll appreciate this, or you'll call Child Protective Services, when they said, who else was nominated? And I was like, well, Inside Out 2, and they, they nodded, like, oh, good, good film. And I said, Moana 2, and my older daughter scoffed. She, I was like, ah.

• 31:41Chris Ryan?

  What tripe.

• 31:43Andy Greenwald?

  The Green Wall.

• 31:44Chris Ryan?

  She just goes back to being your dad.

• 31:46Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

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• 33:38Chris Ryan?

  All right, we've talked enough about 2024.

• 33:41Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 33:41Chris Ryan?

  Let's talk about 2025. Here we are.

• 33:43Andy Greenwald?

  Apparently.

• 33:44Chris Ryan?

  I talked a little bit on last episode about some of the stuff that's coming in January. Obviously Severance is probably the biggest title. We've got American Primeval, Peter Berg's vision of 19th century Utah, starring Betty Gilpin and Taylor Kitsch.

• 33:58Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah. Also, the pit is this week.

• 34:00Chris Ryan?

  The pit is this week. I've watched a few episodes.

• 34:02Andy Greenwald?

  Have, god damn it, between F Boy Island marathons? What are you?

• 34:06Chris Ryan?

  I was home one day and I was just like, let's, let's, let's get this leg reattached. You know what I mean? Let's see what's going on. I don't think you're gonna be able to handle it.

• 34:14Andy Greenwald?

  The, what?

• 34:14Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 34:15Andy Greenwald?

  I can, I can watch medical stuff.

• 34:17Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 34:18Andy Greenwald?

  You don't think so?

• 34:19Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 34:20Andy Greenwald?

  Just for the record, if there's ever another one of these days where you're like, I, I could watch some advanced television, or I could get really into playoff hockey, or I could call my buddy and see if, you know, Uncle Chris wants to babysit a little bit.

• 34:31Chris Ryan?

  You keep, you've dangled this twice, and I don't know if you can afford my rates.

• 34:35Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, have they gone up?

• 34:36Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. When I looked at, around to get some information about like what was coming this year and what we should be anticipating.

• 34:42Andy Greenwald?

  Shoe leather.

• 34:43Chris Ryan?

  I noticed that, as has been the trend in the last couple of years, obviously COVID, obviously the strikes, the caveats are, are the same, as always. Less and less information. Less and less.

• 34:56Andy Greenwald?

  Like certainty.

• 34:57Chris Ryan?

  Certainty, less and less 12-month plan, less and less, like, really need to tell anybody like what's coming. Like, I don't think people are like, well, if Disney Plus doesn't inform me of the exact days of when series are coming out, I will be cancelling my subscription. It's like, that feeling is, that, there's like, A, a feeling, I think, where it's like, maybe people are being a little bit more dynamic with their scheduling, and they're like, moving things around. B, I don't know where things are in terms of the completion of production. And C, it's just like, I just don't think they need to tell anybody.

• 35:28Andy Greenwald?

  Do you think there's value, I'm sure someone knows this, in the ambiguity? Meaning, if, if subscribers to one of these services knew that a show that they liked was returning in exactly four months and it was pre-scheduled.

• 35:40Chris Ryan?

  You might be on to something.

• 35:41Andy Greenwald?

  They could cancel.

• 35:41Chris Ryan?

  Sure. Yeah, there, there is probably a Stranger Things-only Netflix subscriber out there who's like, if they told me it was exactly this day, I might wait, you know? I largely gathered together these things in a couple of groups. This is by no means like a complete list. I would say that a lot of this stuff is coming out. Before July?

• 36:02Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 36:02Chris Ryan?

  I think. And I would also say that typically what happens is we get very excited for a bunch of titles that are coming in the beginning part of the year or in the first half of the year. And our best of list or our favorite shows of the year tend to be things that come out of nowhere and surprises. I was not checking for Black Doves.

• 36:19Andy Greenwald?

  No.

• 36:20Chris Ryan?

  In January of 2024. I don't think I had watched an episode of Shorzy in January of 2024. Look at me now. That's coming back.

• 36:27Andy Greenwald?

  You are wearing a Canadian tuxedo today.

• 36:30Chris Ryan?

  I am in honor of both Shorzy and Bruce Springsteen. Let me start with the defending champions and the last dances.

• 36:36Andy Greenwald?

  Can I also just make a request for next year? Because I do think the spirit of this exercise demands at least some alcohol consumption because how many beers were you in two years ago?

• 36:48Chris Ryan?

  You think it's in this Aquafina bottle?

• 36:49Andy Greenwald?

  See, I'm just jealous. I do think that if we do this again next year, it should involve some sort of drinking game.

• 36:53Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 36:53Andy Greenwald?

  If not for us, then for the listeners.

• 36:54Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 36:55Andy Greenwald?

  But we'll do our best.

• 36:57Chris Ryan?

  The defending champions and the last dances. So this is, uh...

• 37:01Andy Greenwald?

  These are good brackets you come up with always.

• 37:03Chris Ryan?

  Big titles and shows that are leaving us.

• 37:06Andy Greenwald?

  And for the record, these have not been shared with me.

• 37:09Chris Ryan?

  Andor.

• 37:10Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 37:10Chris Ryan?

  Season two, I think that comes in April. The most expensive present we've ever received.

• 37:15Andy Greenwald?

  Did you, did you write that down? We didn't actually ever talk about that Forbes article.

• 37:19Chris Ryan?

  This costs like $700 million to make these two seasons.

• 37:21Andy Greenwald?

  It's so crazy. We spend half the time whenever we talk about Lucasfilm being like, they are so fiscally irresponsible with the budget for skeleton crew.

• 37:30Chris Ryan?

  Dude, I was like rewatching an episode the other day because I was like trying to refresh my memory. And I also saw in Soderbergh's media diary that he publishes on his website that he was like Andor, Andor, Andor. And then watched like all the Star Wars movies.

• 37:42Andy Greenwald?

  Did he really?

• 37:42Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 37:43Andy Greenwald?

  He is the only person that did that.

• 37:45Chris Ryan?

  But there were...

• 37:45Andy Greenwald?

  And that's what Disney wanted people to do.

• 37:47Chris Ryan?

  I do remember that at some point, like during, while watching Andor, I was like, this is fiscally responsible. You know, he's really like...

• 37:54Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, it's just men in rooms.

• 37:55Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 37:56Andy Greenwald?

  According to Forbes, the total production cost for season one and two is over $645 million.

• 38:04Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 38:05Andy Greenwald?

  I just want to say, I'm gonna look in the camera. God bless you, Tony. We respect you.

• 38:09Chris Ryan?

  I think you could buy Nottingham Forest Football Club for that.

• 38:12Andy Greenwald?

  This is a, is this a better use of funds?

• 38:15Chris Ryan?

  I don't know. You're in the Champions League places right now.

• 38:17Andy Greenwald?

  And I watched Landman last night, which gave me a different sense of the value of professional sports franchises vis a vis family.

• 38:23Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 38:23Andy Greenwald?

  So, but holy shit, like this is such a... This is not, none of this is happening again, so we should be excited that we are getting this.

• 38:31Chris Ryan?

  And when Andor was originally announced, I think Tony Gilroy had talked about it being a five-season show.

• 38:39Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, he had a lot of story.

• 38:40Chris Ryan?

  And it would be like each season was a year of the five years leading up to Rogue One or something like that. Clearly, that would have bankrupted the Magic Kingdom if he had done that.

• 38:52Andy Greenwald?

  Sorry, guys. Sorry, kids. Splash Mountain isn't reopening because Uncle Tony.

• 38:56Chris Ryan?

  Andor's coming back for its second and final season. White Lotus, we've talked about a little bit, set in Thailand, starring Keri Coon, Natasha Rothwell is back. Michelle Monahan, Walton Goggins, et cetera. That's coming in February. The Bear, the final season. I asked you about Shogun having louder footsteps behind it because of its awards run. In your mind, is there more pressure on this fourth season of The Bear since you yourself have declared it?

• 39:23Andy Greenwald?

  Unfinished business.

• 39:24Chris Ryan?

  Season 3B?

• 39:25Andy Greenwald?

  Uh, no, not in the same way we were talking about Shogun, because I think The Bear's consistency and its penetration to the larger viewing public

• 39:33Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 39:34Andy Greenwald?

  means that people will be like, the show I like is back, and it will reap the rewards of that. I think for those of us who are just like podium watching and like considering it critically and like, did they, did they stick the landing or whatever? I think it's a different

• 39:46Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 39:46Andy Greenwald?

  level of pressure, but also it's been done. I keep coming back to this, but the, the scheduling matters, right? Like, they were doing all of this in the flow of the game.

• 39:58Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 39:59Andy Greenwald?

  This is not like six years off and we get one last chance to, to figure this thing out.

• 40:02Chris Ryan?

  This is the best part about it. This is just like somehow

• 40:05Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 40:06Chris Ryan?

  these, these cats have just hit us up every June with a new series.

• 40:10Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, and I feel also because we know Chris and we like Chris and we also like his work, like

• 40:15Chris Ryan?

  Stor.

• 40:15Andy Greenwald?

  Stor. This one we're still on the fence about, 13 years deep.

• 40:20Andy Greenwald?

  It's gonna be what he wanted to do.

• 40:21Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 40:22Andy Greenwald?

  So, let's see.

• 40:23Chris Ryan?

  The Last of Us, season two.

• 40:25Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 40:25Chris Ryan?

  With Dever, Caitlin Dever, that is.

• 40:27Andy Greenwald?

  Mm-hmm.

• 40:28Chris Ryan?

  I'm pretty pumped up for this. Apparently.

• 40:32Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 40:32Chris Ryan?

  The Caitlin Dever character is controversial.

• 40:35Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, like in the video game?

• 40:37Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 40:38Andy Greenwald?

  You probably know why.

• 40:39Chris Ryan?

  I do, unfortunately, yeah.

• 40:41Andy Greenwald?

  And does it, it spoils to say why?

• 40:43Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 40:43Andy Greenwald?

  Okay, so I don't, I don't wanna know.

• 40:45Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, don't go on Last of Us Reddit.

• 40:47Andy Greenwald?

  I also.

• 40:48Chris Ryan?

  I know you like going on TV show reddits.

• 40:50Andy Greenwald?

  Gee, I love it. It feels great. I, I think Last of Us is one of my favorite shows to discuss with you because you front-run that show so hard.

• 40:59Chris Ryan?

  What do you mean?

• 41:00Andy Greenwald?

  You spent the first half of whatever year that was being like, "There's no question this show is gonna be in my top 10 for the year."

• 41:05Chris Ryan?

  Did I say that?

• 41:05Andy Greenwald?

  You were like, I mean, credit to Craig Mazin, like, I'm not sure if I like this episode.

• 41:09Chris Ryan?

  That's almost like coming in after the first episode of Presumed Innocent and being like, "Ah, there's no better episode of television this year."

• 41:13Andy Greenwald?

  I stand by it.

• 41:14Chris Ryan?

  You should've made it, you should've taken the pilot of Presumed Innocent, you should've made it your episode of the year.

• 41:19Andy Greenwald?

  Who's to say I didn't make that argument behind the scenes?

• 41:21Chris Ryan?

  Not to me.

• 41:22Andy Greenwald?

  Well, I was trying to be respectful of your time.

• 41:24Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 41:25Andy Greenwald?

  Also, I knew we couldn't get Jakey G in here, um, due to his commitments.

• 41:28Chris Ryan?

  To Othello?

• 41:29Andy Greenwald?

  To, is that what he's doing?

• 41:30Chris Ryan?

  Are you gonna see him do Othello with Denzel?

• 41:32Andy Greenwald?

  I didn't know about this.

• 41:33Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 41:33Andy Greenwald?

  Was this in the news? I don't read it.

• 41:34Chris Ryan?

  It's a big, big Broadway season coming up. We got Jake Gyllenhaal and Denzel Washington doing Othello.

• 41:39Andy Greenwald?

  Goddamn.

• 41:39Chris Ryan?

  Uh, Kieran Culkin is in, uh, Glengarry Glen Ross.

• 41:44Andy Greenwald?

  Who we never talked about. A, what Jeremy Strong was wearing, but B, him wearing that outfit like a sad, felt-covered Beastie Boy clown, watching Kieran Culkin win an award? That was.

• 41:57Andy Greenwald?

  Incredible.

• 41:58Chris Ryan?

  Where was I? I was talking about Broadway.

• 42:00Andy Greenwald?

  You, you did, you did a very smart play there that I think long-time listeners will appreciate. I was coming at you a little hard.

• 42:05Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 42:06Andy Greenwald?

  And you deflected by talking about theater, which is good.

• 42:09Chris Ryan?

  Cause that's your love language. I don't think that I front-run Last of Us at all, and I think it was dragging you up a mountain because you're scared of mushrooms.

• 42:21Chris Ryan?

  And you don't want to think about what's gonna happen to this country when

• 42:24Andy Greenwald?

  When the mushrooms take over? That's the biggest threat facing this country. Bar none. You've hit the nail on the head again. Too much fun guy and not enough fun guys like us.

• 42:34Chris Ryan?

  Stranger Things returns for its final season. This may be the show that's been off the air the longest. It feels like this show has been off the air since 1997.

• 42:43Andy Greenwald?

  All of the press that has come out about Euphoria season three, I would like to cut and paste Stranger Things into those stories. And I feel like I would

• 42:52Chris Ryan?

  You want to hold Stranger Things accountable?

• 42:54Andy Greenwald?

  No, sure. But also, I kind of feel like my understanding of where Stranger Things left off, both in terms of its story, but also in terms of its stars all pushing 30 now, like the daughter on Landman. I feel like, why didn't they just pitch Stranger Things where they're all private investigators now? Like, are we, is this show really coming back being like,

• 43:12Chris Ryan?

  I don't know.

• 43:13Andy Greenwald?

  Wow, these are the tallest seniors in the history of American high school.

• 43:17Chris Ryan?

  I'm sure they'll account for it somehow. I don't think they're just gonna be like the next day after whatever happened at the end of season four is. You know?

• 43:25Andy Greenwald?

  I'm gonna

• 43:25Chris Ryan?

  Do you know what happened at the end of season four?

• 43:27Andy Greenwald?

  Did something even stranger happen? Was it good?

• 43:30Chris Ryan?

  Did you watch season four? Did you watch season three?

• 43:32Andy Greenwald?

  I don't know.

• 43:33Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 43:33Andy Greenwald?

  It's possible.

• 43:34Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 43:34Andy Greenwald?

  It's possible.

• 43:35Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 43:36Andy Greenwald?

  I'm, I'm operating from a place of a forgiveness in the new year, but also optimistic thinking. Like, as someone who did, you know, you know, rarely do I see a movie you haven't seen. But I have been bragging to you off camera that I watched Beetlejuice Beetlejuice this weekend, which I really liked.

• 43:51Chris Ryan?

  I'm glad you found a place to put it in.

• 43:53Andy Greenwald?

  And I did, I always find a place. Cause this is my only outlet. I don't do a lot of pods like some people. Winona back. Like, I, I have been grateful that she was in Stranger Things, but I have not loved always the

• 44:05Chris Ryan?

  I just think if you love her at her Beetlejuice, love her at her Hawkins, Indiana.

• 44:08Andy Greenwald?

  I always

• 44:09Chris Ryan?

  Be there for her.

• 44:10Andy Greenwald?

  Listen, I always love her.

• 44:12Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 44:13Andy Greenwald?

  But I was really glad to see her get a little bit more space to cook, a little more ISO.

• 44:18Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 44:19Andy Greenwald?

  In the movie.

• 44:19Chris Ryan?

  Speaking of things that have a lot of expectations, I think Stranger Things, the final season, although-

• 44:24Andy Greenwald?

  And when is it loosely scheduled for?

• 44:26Chris Ryan?

  Summer, I'm gonna say.

• 44:28Andy Greenwald?

  Like, they usually tie it to holidays, right?

• 44:29Chris Ryan?

  There was a famous July 4th drop-

• 44:31Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 44:32Chris Ryan?

  Where I had to interrupt my binge to cover the Kawhi Leonard, Paul George trades to the Clippers at like midnight.

• 44:40Andy Greenwald?

  How'd those work out for the Clippers?

• 44:41Chris Ryan?

  That's a good- you sure you wanna start talking shit about basketball just yet?

• 44:46Andy Greenwald?

  Definitely not.

• 44:48Chris Ryan?

  So those are the sort of returning champions, The Bear, Last of Us, Stranger Things, White Lotus, Andor- White Lotus, uh, sorry, Andor and The Bear and Stranger Things all coming to an end. Okay. The spinoff zone, not the spin zone, the spinoff zone.

• 45:04Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 45:04Chris Ryan?

  Knights of the Seven Kingdoms.

• 45:06Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 45:07Chris Ryan?

  Uh, Knight of the Seven Kingdoms, sorry, from Ira Parker, who is a dragon writer, House of the Dragon writer, based on the novella by Martin, George R.R. Martin. And this one looks pretty cool. We saw like a little bit of footage just on the coming soon on HBO. Did you not know what I was talking about?

• 45:21Andy Greenwald?

  I did, but I wanna be clear for our listeners, it's called A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms-

• 45:25Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 45:27Andy Greenwald?

  For some reason, when you're like knights in the seven kingdoms, I was kind of excited, cuz it sounded a little bit like a Cinemax After Dark show. You know, where like rogue knights and squires-

• 45:38Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 45:38Andy Greenwald?

  Like go and drink a little too much mead? I- I wasn't mad at it, or maybe there's a more PG version that's like my favorite show, Tokyo Story, Midnight Diner, Tokyo Stories.

• 45:48Chris Ryan?

  But it was just about guys getting cockles?

• 45:50Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 45:50Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 45:51Andy Greenwald?

  Getting cucked and eating cockles.

• 45:53Chris Ryan?

  Uh, A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms, The Paper, although that is an unofficial title. The, uh-

• 46:01Andy Greenwald?

  What's this?

• 46:01Chris Ryan?

  Donald Gleason office spinoff.

• 46:04Andy Greenwald?

  I didn't know it had a new title.

• 46:05Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, well, it's about a newspaper, so I think people are referring to it as The Paper.

• 46:09Andy Greenwald?

  It's great. That is, I mean, old media is back, baby.

• 46:14Chris Ryan?

  Boy, I don't know what to think about this one.

• 46:15Andy Greenwald?

  No, it's really, and it's really happening.

• 46:18Chris Ryan?

  And I don't know what they're doing in terms of like, how are their connect, what the connective tissue is with the office.

• 46:23Andy Greenwald?

  What does it mean to be a spinoff when it's the same creative team, but it is set in the middle of the country? They've announced that, right?

• 46:30Chris Ryan?

  It's a local newspaper in Indiana.

• 46:32Andy Greenwald?

  The worst case scenario here is if it's really just a new show in the mockumentary style made by Greg Daniels, and the connective tissue is the documentary film crew being the same.

• 46:45Chris Ryan?

  Didn't at the end, was it Pam had like, the director of photography on that set was just like, yeah, me and Pam, we're close.

• 46:53Andy Greenwald?

  I don't know if I've ever gotten angrier in print in Grantland than, yeah. I refer to that guy as the emotional Pucci.

• 47:02Chris Ryan?

  Oh yeah, that's right.

• 47:03Andy Greenwald?

  And.

• 47:03Chris Ryan?

  Some of your best work.

• 47:04Andy Greenwald?

  Thank you. It's really been a slow but pronounced decline. But yeah, like there was nothing left to do by the time we got to season nine, season 10. And so they made the conceit part of the show. And like, even when what we do in the shadows does it, I find it a little, like, I don't care that these vampires are being filmed by people.

• 47:26Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I know.

• 47:26Andy Greenwald?

  I don't care that people show up.

• 47:27Chris Ryan?

  It's just a visual style. I wish they would just stick to that.

• 47:29Andy Greenwald?

  Let's just admit that. Yeah, that's fine.

• 47:31Chris Ryan?

  Although I guess what they want to account for is the expository scenes of them going straight to camera to talk about like what they're doing.

• 47:39Andy Greenwald?

  I'm okay with that.

• 47:40Chris Ryan?

  You just don't pretend like you're gonna make a documentary that's like eight years long.

• 47:44Andy Greenwald?

  You told me that you do that about your FIFA teams in the privacy of your own home. Like, people talk out loud. It's cool.

• 47:51Chris Ryan?

  That was why I kind of quit FIFA is because I was talking about my academy.

• 47:57Andy Greenwald?

  And like the.

• 47:58Chris Ryan?

  In the shower.

• 47:59Andy Greenwald?

  Your style and where your players.

• 48:00Chris Ryan?

  When we get the lads in and 16, we can truly indoctrinate them.

• 48:05Andy Greenwald?

  So to be clear, you said out loud, when we get the 16-year-old lads in, we can indoctrinate them. Phoebe's just walking by or maybe grabbing a toothbrush?

• 48:15Chris Ryan?

  I sent fantasy a meme this weekend because it was the Sydney Sweeney getting like crying while putting, doing her hair in the mirror euphoria meme. Have you seen that?

• 48:26Andy Greenwald?

  No.

• 48:27Chris Ryan?

  So it's like she's like crying and doing her hair in the mirror, but also laughing and crying. And it's just very emotional. And in the background, somebody is doing a Count Orlok voice from Nosferatul. And the, and the description is like, me and my wife while I'm practicing my Count Orlok impression for the party we're about to go to. And it's basically me.

• 48:50Andy Greenwald?

  That is you.

• 48:51Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. Uh, the paper, Alien Earth, I'm back, man.

• 48:56Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 48:56Chris Ryan?

  We did not talk a lot about-

• 48:57Andy Greenwald?

  That's because it's your special time with your mom.

• 48:59Chris Ryan?

  I know. We didn't talk a ton about the last season of Fargo.

• 49:02Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 49:02Chris Ryan?

  Ham with the nipple rings, John Hamm, not just a ham. I thought that was a very good season of television, ups and downs, but I liked it. I'm excited for Noah Hawley to get out of the Fargo business for a second. And I think that this show has the potential to be really cool.

• 49:18Andy Greenwald?

  It definitely-

• 49:19Chris Ryan?

  They are obviously like, working within the same corporate infrastructure as like, where the Alien, the entire Alien series is like underneath the Disney Fox umbrella now. Timothy Olyphant's in the show. I don't really know a lot about it. It's a prequel-

• 49:33Andy Greenwald?

  What's his name, Lothar from-

• 49:35Chris Ryan?

  Alex Lothar.

• 49:35Andy Greenwald?

  Alex Lothar from Andor and from-

• 49:37Chris Ryan?

  I think this is about the beginnings of the Weyland-Yutani Corporation. They're kind of like, it's a little bit of like a corporate espionage story, but I'm sure there is going to be an alien in the first episode.

• 49:47Andy Greenwald?

  And, and an Earth, probably. It's all there in the title. You gotta pay attention to the details like I do.

• 49:51Chris Ryan?

  Those, those things cannot come down here. You know, we gotta keep them up there.

• 49:54Andy Greenwald?

  Is that your platform?

• 49:55Chris Ryan?

  Well, that's what-

• 49:56Andy Greenwald?

  Are you a single issue voter?

• 49:57Chris Ryan?

  Multiple, like, guys try to, you know, be like, we gotta, this is a bioweapon, we gotta bring it to Earth. And outside of the Alien vs Predator-

• 50:05Andy Greenwald?

  That seems short sighted to me.

• 50:06Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 50:06Andy Greenwald?

  Even from my limited perspective. I-

• 50:08Chris Ryan?

  And your, and your dovish takes on the military industrial guns.

• 50:12Andy Greenwald?

  Landman has taught me a lot, actually, about that. I, I think, we'll talk about it more as it gets closer, but before we actually have specifics, it's interesting to me to see what comes out of a Noah Hawley working on big, big corporate IP for FX situation. Again, I worked with him on Legion- Now a bunch of years ago, and what was interesting about that was it felt like, in many ways, it was kind of exhilarating, but it was also out of step with the times, right? Because the X-Men franchise was enormous and important at that time to Fox's business. But they were still a little bit like TV oriented or auteur minded to let him do whatever he wanted, basically, and not worry about it stepping on the toes of what the bigger

• 50:57Andy Greenwald?

  motion picture franchise was doing. That's kind of freedom doesn't really exist anymore now that everything has become consolidated and centralized and we're telling, you know, one Star Wars story or one Marvel story across the TV and the film departments.

• 51:10Chris Ryan?

  No, it's more of like, hey, you can have that corner of the sandbox.

• 51:13Andy Greenwald?

  Exactly, and so it may end up still being that. It's just that maybe he and the team around him were able to choose a sandbox that was correctly siloed. But that'll be an interesting thing to see, both in terms of what the show looks like at the beginning, and then if it's a success, what it means for the film franchise.

• 51:28Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, how much it goes up towards Alien or I don't know where it is in relationship to Prometheus, yeah.

• 51:33Andy Greenwald?

  For what it's worth, I haven't serviced a number of Facebook memes explaining exactly where it fits into the larger chronology, which is interesting because...

• 51:39Chris Ryan?

  But you haven't seen the Sydney Sweeney meme?

• 51:41Andy Greenwald?

  No, no.

• 51:42Chris Ryan?

  God. Alien Earth, welcome to dairy, which is the it Stephen King verse spinoff.

• 51:49Andy Greenwald?

  There's never a version of this where I'm not going to think it's Dairy Girls. Like, there's no version where you mention the show.

• 51:55Chris Ryan?

  This can't be your contribution is mishearing me, you know?

• 51:57Andy Greenwald?

  I think it's fun. It's not mishearing you. I didn't mishear you. I'm saying that every time I've seen on a release schedule or online...

• 52:03Chris Ryan?

  You're like, welcome to dairy, and it's a Dairy Girls prequel?

• 52:05Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 52:06Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 52:07Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, this wasn't you. You spoke beautifully.

• 52:08Chris Ryan?

  Thank you.

• 52:09Andy Greenwald?

  Really nicely.

• 52:10Chris Ryan?

  What's your, which one of these are you most excited about of the spinoffs?

• 52:14Andy Greenwald?

  So the spinoffs are...

• 52:16Chris Ryan?

  A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms.

• 52:17Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, right.

• 52:17Chris Ryan?

  Kingdom.

• 52:18Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 52:19Chris Ryan?

  Kingdoms, The Paper. Title TBD.

• 52:22Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 52:22Chris Ryan?

  Alien Earth, welcome to dairy.

• 52:24Andy Greenwald?

  Weirdly, I'm gonna zag and say Night of the Seven Kingdoms. Only because, you know, fool me three times and maybe you've got something. But it seems like the early buzz on this one is that this is a different flavor of Westeros than we've seen before. Not necessarily Skinamax After Dark, but like a little bit lighter, a little bit brighter and a little more like road buddy movie kind of thing.

• 52:47Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I don't know if this is Lone Wolf and Cub again, or what.

• 52:50Andy Greenwald?

  You're tired of that.

• 52:51Chris Ryan?

  But there is a, I'm, I'm super tired of that.

• 52:52Andy Greenwald?

  I also think that there was a version, I also could be getting it mixed up. Like, I think that Stephen Conrad, who's a pretty out there TV creator.

• 52:58Chris Ryan?

  He's not doing it.

• 52:59Andy Greenwald?

  He, he was originally attached to this. And so maybe my sort of just, yeah, adjacent understanding of it was that that was his. I think in terms of like, okay, let's see what you got and what you're cooking with. Alien Earth has the most potential.

• 53:12Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 53:12Andy Greenwald?

  And the, the paper is just a tough one, despite liking the, the creative team. I guess until we know more about even what the project is, it's hard to kind of weigh in on it. And I, and I am not really like, although weirdly, I was really into the It miniseries from the eighties with Tim Curry as Pennywise.

• 53:27Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, those were great. The Salem's Lot miniseries from the eighties is great.

• 53:31Andy Greenwald?

  I watched all that.

• 53:31Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 53:32Andy Greenwald?

  So I don't know why I'm pretending to be like it averse. I don't, maybe I'm not.

• 53:35Chris Ryan?

  Did you ever see the, the most recent film?

• 53:37Andy Greenwald?

  No.

• 53:38Chris Ryan?

  Okay. These next couple are broadly speaking originals. A couple of them feature returns to like the sort of number one on the call sheet from some of our favorite performers over the last few years.

• 53:52Andy Greenwald?

  Right.

• 53:53Chris Ryan?

  Your Friends and Neighbors. We have been going through

• 53:55Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 53:56Chris Ryan?

  this stretch of time where Jon Hamm is seemingly on everything, but not that much.

• 54:02Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 54:02Chris Ryan?

  Doing supporting actor work, going on morning show, being on Landman. This is his, now he is the star of the show.

• 54:10Andy Greenwald?

  It is his return to a leading man role on an ongoing drama series.

• 54:13Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, so Your Friends and Neighbors.

• 54:15Andy Greenwald?

  Something he was agonizing over, I think, not just the show, but trying to find his next thing was an ongoing.

• 54:19Chris Ryan?

  Right. And I think he's done now enough. Good work outside of Mad Men that like he'll get asked about it, but it's not going to be like, whoa, this is two years like this is not the thing he's doing six months after Mad Men got canceled.

• 54:31Andy Greenwald?

  I don't know if it was a, I don't know if it was a career strategy or an agency strategy or just timing, but in retrospect, his last two years look incredibly smart to do exactly what you said, to show diversity, to keep his name out there, and then also to in some ways like just release some of the tension.

• 54:47Chris Ryan?

  Being Top Gun Maverick.

• 54:48Andy Greenwald?

  His return. Yeah, but he shot that like that shot that when did that shoot 2019? I don't know. 2018 it did.

• 54:54Chris Ryan?

  Okay. So your friends and neighbors, Jon Hamm plays like a down on his luck, rich guy, who starts stealing from his neighbors and it's from Jonathan Tropper.

• 55:05Chris Ryan?

  So I'm, I'm excited. That's on Apple TV pretty soon.

• 55:07Andy Greenwald?

  Very excited about this. My full, my friend Zach Galer was the DPM. I show worked on the show. I've heard nothing but good things and I'm very excited about it.

• 55:13Chris Ryan?

  Awesome. If you watched the Golden Globes last night, you got a taste of this, the studio, which is the Seth Rogen comedy drama about the state of Hollywood, which focuses on Rogan's studio head character and Catherine O'Hara is his sort of right hand woman.

• 55:27Andy Greenwald?

  I thought she was his therapist.

• 55:29Chris Ryan?

  Oh, maybe it's his therapist. That's right.

• 55:30Andy Greenwald?

  I mean, I call my therapist my right hand woman. So this tracks.

• 55:36Chris Ryan?

  I'm fascinated by this.

• 55:37Andy Greenwald?

  I'm super, super locked in on this.

• 55:39Chris Ryan?

  Like incredibly sincere.

• 55:41Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 55:42Chris Ryan?

  And is a plaintive cry to save Hollywood and revive the thing that we have in our heads.

• 55:49Andy Greenwald?

  Just like Brady Corbey.

• 55:50Chris Ryan?

  Exactly.

• 55:51Andy Greenwald?

  Same message.

• 55:51Chris Ryan?

  Slightly different telling of the story, I think, and.

• 55:54Andy Greenwald?

  We'll see.

• 55:55Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, but they started sort of slow rolling this out last night, both with O'Hara and Rogan as presenters. And then there was a clip going around about them on the red carpet.

• 56:04Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 56:05Chris Ryan?

  Kind of mocking the Tik Tok influencers who were also on the red carpet. So keep an eye out for this one. This is Apple TV in a couple of weeks.

• 56:13Andy Greenwald?

  I'm never selling my Rogan stock.

• 56:15Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 56:15Andy Greenwald?

  I think it's a, it's a growth play over a long term. I think he's just always good and always has good taste and is funny. Okay. He's not in good taste, but I think he has a good sensibility. It's pretty consistent.

• 56:25Chris Ryan?

  Exactly.

• 56:26Andy Greenwald?

  And is going to have a long career making good stuff. And I really want this to be good because, but I can't tell if it's precisely because I like him and I like Catherine O'Hara.

• 56:34Chris Ryan?

  Or you want of the player style satire of Hollywood.

• 56:37Andy Greenwald?

  Player slash Don Carpenter's turnaround, one of my favorite Hollywood novels made into a TV show.

• 56:42Chris Ryan?

  I wouldn't get your hopes up that high.

• 56:43Andy Greenwald?

  I don't think it's those things, but I still am interested.

• 56:46Chris Ryan?

  This one I'm putting in slightly for Juliette Leibman, but also for myself. It's a Netflix series. It's called Death by Lightning. It comes from Mike Mikowski, who directed a film a couple of years ago called Bad Education with Hugh Jackman. And Benioff and Weiss are producers. It is a historical drama about the assassination of President Garfield, starring Michael Shannon and Matthew McFadyen.

• 57:08Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, yeah. Why is that in there just for Juliette? We like America.

• 57:12Chris Ryan?

  Because she read the book and she's like, it's incredible.

• 57:14Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, cool. That sounds great.

• 57:15Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 57:16Andy Greenwald?

  And that's Netflix?

• 57:17Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 57:18Andy Greenwald?

  I have no notes about that. That seems really interesting.

• 57:21Chris Ryan?

  Also on Netflix is The Four Seasons.

• 57:23Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 57:24Chris Ryan?

  Tina Fey and Steve Carell starring in a remake of a 1981 Alan Alda movie. What a world.

• 57:31Andy Greenwald?

  You're speaking my language now.

• 57:32Chris Ryan?

  About three couples, and one of the couples is getting divorced. And it was created by Fey and Tracy Woodfield, who did King Schmidt.

• 57:40Andy Greenwald?

  And Great News and worked on 30 Rock. And, I mean, but the cast runs deeper. Coleman Domingos in this. I really want this to be good. I mean, I want...

• 57:50Chris Ryan?

  I'm curious whether it will have the zany, six-jokes-per-page feel of those other Tina Fey, Tracy Woodfield series.

• 57:58Andy Greenwald?

  Well, also, the missing, the secret sauce for that tone is Robert Karlock, Tina Fey's writing partner, who just has been known to, like, work a joke all night. Until it's the exact number of punchlines that he needs and, like, the speed of it. It can't go too fast. Broadly speaking, I am pro Netflix using some of their enormous largesse to fund mid-career or mid-period pieces from some of our best and funniest people. Like, that's cool. Like, even, the interesting thing to me is to compare it to Alan Alda, who was famous for doing one thing, and then was like, now I'm going to make a wistful, romantic comedy thing. And everyone's like, sure, Alan Alda, you're a man of many talents. Like, I want that type of career for Tina Fey, where she's not necessarily locked into, you know,

• 58:40Andy Greenwald?

  the expectation that she's going to make the next great sitcom over and over and over again. So, and Netflix can flip the bill to have something this starry. So, I am very, very cautiously optimistic about this one.

• 58:52Chris Ryan?

  The last one I have here on the originals is Too Much, which is also on Netflix. And it's Lena Dunham's first new show in a while. It stars Will Sharp and Megan Salter, so...

• 59:05Andy Greenwald?

  From Hacks?

• 59:06Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 59:06Andy Greenwald?

  And from, sorry, Will Sharp from the last season of White Lotus.

• 59:10Chris Ryan?

  And also from A Real Pain. He's fantastic in A Real Pain.

• 59:12Andy Greenwald?

  I haven't seen that either.

• 59:13Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. It's about an American woman who moves to London and falls in love with Englishmen.

• 59:17Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, so she just, she's?

• 59:19Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 59:19Andy Greenwald?

  She's autobiying again.

• 59:20Chris Ryan?

  Let me tell you something. Girls is incredible.

• 59:23Andy Greenwald?

  Yes. Fair.

• 59:25Chris Ryan?

  A clip came up the other day, it was on my phone, of Hannah's parents cutting her off financially.

• 59:33Andy Greenwald?

  From the pilot?

• 59:34Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. And I was like, this show is goaded. We really need to get back to this.

• 59:39Andy Greenwald?

  It is so emblematic of a different era in TV in so many different.

• 59:43Chris Ryan?

  It feels like it was 25 years ago.

• 59:45Andy Greenwald?

  I mean, I.

• 59:45Chris Ryan?

  It might have been.

• 59:46Andy Greenwald?

  I revisited it last year for the Stick the Landing podcast with Amanda. She picked that as the show she wanted to do. And it was pretty exhilarating to go back to that show and just realize how high the highs were. And then also how high the misses sometimes could be. And the, sort of the aesthetic ambition of the show that could do something like Panic in Central Park episode. When Charlie came back, the Christopher Abbott character. But just the most underrated part of that show was the jokes and whether you credit.

• 1:00:16Chris Ryan?

  It was really funny.

• 1:00:16Andy Greenwald?

  It was so funny. And it's the Jenny Connor influence or the Jenny and Lena together. So that's cool.

• 1:00:22Chris Ryan?

  So which one are you most excited about from the originals?

• 1:00:25Andy Greenwald?

  Run through them again.

• 1:00:27Chris Ryan?

  Too Much, Lena Dunham's return on Netflix. Four Seasons, The Four Seasons, Tina Fey and Steve Carell's romantic dramedy. Death by Lightning, the Benioff and Weiss and Mike Michalski historical drama.

• 1:00:38Andy Greenwald?

  But that's probably a one, that's like a one, that's a one and done.

• 1:00:41Chris Ryan?

  That's an adaptation of a book, yeah.

• 1:00:42Andy Greenwald?

  Right? I mean, how many times do they try to kill Garfield? By the way, that's my next pitch, but it's the cat.

• 1:00:49Chris Ryan?

  And is it Heathcliff?

• 1:00:50Andy Greenwald?

  Heathcliff's like, I'm always number two.

• 1:00:53Chris Ryan?

  This dude hates Mondays. That's the time to strike. The Studio and Your Friends and Neighbors.

• 1:00:58Andy Greenwald?

  That's a pretty good list.

• 1:01:00Chris Ryan?

  I know. I know.

• 1:01:01Andy Greenwald?

  The heart says The Studio, but the head says Your Friends and Neighbors.

• 1:01:08Chris Ryan?

  My heart says Too Much.

• 1:01:10Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, good for you.

• 1:01:11Chris Ryan?

  Uh, my head says.

• 1:01:14Chris Ryan?

  The studio.

• 1:01:15Andy Greenwald?

  So for you, is 2025 the year of the Lina sans?

• 1:01:19Chris Ryan?

  Well, that's funny you should say that word. Because my last category here-

• 1:01:22Andy Greenwald?

  I hoped it was funny, it's why I said it.

• 1:01:23Chris Ryan?

  Is the Philadelphia sans.

• 1:01:25Andy Greenwald?

  Yes, let's go.

• 1:01:26Chris Ryan?

  Do you know we have three Philadelphia crime series coming? In the next couple of months?

• 1:01:30Andy Greenwald?

  Can I just say what everyone is thinking?

• 1:01:32Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:32Andy Greenwald?

  Is this the watch effect? I think that we've been in the game long enough to just subtly influence enough industry mockers.

• 1:01:41Chris Ryan?

  Well, okay, this happens sometimes when I don't know what Josh Shapiro's tax credits are like for the film industry.

• 1:01:47Andy Greenwald?

  He's ready to do business with anyone, he said.

• 1:01:49Chris Ryan?

  But sometimes-

• 1:01:50Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:51Chris Ryan?

  You know, you get this run of, oh, New Orleans shows because Louisiana has benefit. We have New Mexico shows, like, a lot of the times I'll just take New Mexico and be like, no, this is actually, you know, Mars or whatever. Or Texas. But in the case of Philadelphia, it might just be the incredible cuisine, the soul of the people.

• 1:02:10Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 1:02:10Chris Ryan?

  And, uh, the soaring crime rate rates. I don't know.

• 1:02:14Andy Greenwald?

  The devastating numbers.

• 1:02:15Chris Ryan?

  We got three, three shows. So we have Task, which is the title for the Brad Inglesby show, Brad Inglesby, who created Mayor of Easttown.

• 1:02:21Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, I mean, to be clear, we will be devoting our show to that show.

• 1:02:25Chris Ryan?

  And this is a show about Philadelphia cops starring Mark Ruffalo and Fabian Frankel, uh, from House of the Dragon.

• 1:02:30Andy Greenwald?

  And your guy, um, Tom Pelfrey.

• 1:02:32Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:34Chris Ryan?

  Dope Thief, which is Brian Tyree Henry and Wagner Mora as criminals who pose as cops to rip off dealers.

• 1:02:40Andy Greenwald?

  I'm sorry. Brian Tyree Henry from The Eternals?

• 1:02:44Andy Greenwald?

  I'm in.

• 1:02:46Chris Ryan?

  And then this one coming out, not of nowhere, but I wasn't really unaware of it, is Long Bright River. Amanda Seyfried is a Philly cop looking for her opioid addicted sister. Well.

• 1:03:00Andy Greenwald?

  I'm interested in the log line.

• 1:03:03Chris Ryan?

  I'm very interested.

• 1:03:04Andy Greenwald?

  You were there more recently than I have. Do cops look like Amanda Seyfried now? Like, generally? That hasn't been my experience. But, you know.

• 1:03:13Chris Ryan?

  I can't wait to hear her Philly accent.

• 1:03:16Andy Greenwald?

  I think she's gonna be good.

• 1:03:17Chris Ryan?

  I think she's gonna be incredible.

• 1:03:18Andy Greenwald?

  Who else made this show? Is this? Give me more info.

• 1:03:21Chris Ryan?

  Nikki Toscano.

• 1:03:23Andy Greenwald?

  Is for what service?

• 1:03:25Chris Ryan?

  She did Hunters and she worked on The Offer. And it's on-

• 1:03:29Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, but it was like a GMA, Good Morning America Book Club book?

• 1:03:32Chris Ryan?

  It was Liz Moore's book, yeah. And she, this, this was on, this will be on the Peacock Network.

• 1:03:37Andy Greenwald?

  Okay, well.

• 1:03:40Chris Ryan?

  There you have it, man. Which, and I think Task is probably our number one draft pick there, right?

• 1:03:44Andy Greenwald?

  Task is number one, both because of our familiarity with the people behind it and our confidence in their ability to make it work. The Dope Thief cast is pretty top notch.

• 1:03:55Chris Ryan?

  I'm interested in Long Bright River, though.

• 1:03:58Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, I feel like you're gonna zag and end up liking that one the most. Generally, like, I'm trying to think of like, what would make a show number one on your list for the whole year, you know? Unlike some mushroom-based.

• 1:04:09Chris Ryan?

  I mean, it's, the first thing I said is my number one show.

• 1:04:11Andy Greenwald?

  Antandore.

• 1:04:12Chris Ryan?

  Antandore.

• 1:04:13Andy Greenwald?

  No, I, no, I know, but I'm saying, if, like, Edith from Downton Abbey was playing a Philadelphia cop, like, I'm just trying to, like, combine a show.

• 1:04:22Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:23Andy Greenwald?

  It would be the most CR-coded Lady Edith.

• 1:04:25Chris Ryan?

  If Cooper from Landman decided to move to Philadelphia.

• 1:04:31Andy Greenwald?

  He plans ahead and he makes decisions.

• 1:04:33Chris Ryan?

  He really does.

• 1:04:33Andy Greenwald?

  And he's very successful at what he sets out to do.

• 1:04:36Chris Ryan?

  Let's get into this most recent episode of Landman, the title Wolfcamp.

• 1:04:42Chris Ryan?

  Which we do get an explanation for what the Wolfcamp is. It's a, it's a sort of area of the...

• 1:04:47Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, that's what he said.

• 1:04:49Chris Ryan?

  Of Texas, where it's very difficult to get oil unless you're fracking, but if you put together like 50 leases, you can have a monopoly.

• 1:04:57Andy Greenwald?

  And then go sideways.

• 1:04:58Chris Ryan?

  I guess so.

• 1:04:59Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, I get it.

• 1:05:00Chris Ryan?

  What did you think of this episode?

• 1:05:03Andy Greenwald?

  I think that I'm increasingly...

• 1:05:04Chris Ryan?

  And spoilers, by the way, because there's some, some stuff does happen in this episode.

• 1:05:08Andy Greenwald?

  Well, a little. I mean, increasingly, I'm coming to think of this show, and I say this, I want to be gentle. I want to say this with, like, with respect, but I'm realizing watching Landman is like watching a show written by a puppy. In the sense that the puppy is ultimately only interested in what it's interested in. And there are so many things in this, as we've been saying for weeks, like, this is a fascinating overview world for a show to be in, right? Like, there are so many different elements here that I find compelling, including just the actual day-to-day of like, what is any of this? How do you put together this stuff?

• 1:05:44Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:44Andy Greenwald?

  How do you, what does it mean to frac sideways?

• 1:05:47Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 1:05:47Andy Greenwald?

  Or whatever.

• 1:05:50Andy Greenwald?

  And Taylor Sheridan sometimes moves in that direction. But really, what he's truly interested in, like more than anything else, is tomahawk helicopters blowing drug dealers out of the sky on accident? And women wearing Lycra shorts, like making parfaits.

• 1:06:06Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:07Andy Greenwald?

  Like, that's real, he cannot fucking quit the dumbest shit. And I do think that there's something charming in it and not malicious.

• 1:06:14Chris Ryan?

  So.

• 1:06:14Andy Greenwald?

  He's just a guy with some interests and he likes to make a show about those interests. So you could watch this, as I have, being like, in some ways, I know it's successful, but in some ways, this is a legendary bag fumble.

• 1:06:27Chris Ryan?

  Oh, my god.

• 1:06:28Andy Greenwald?

  In terms of the talent brought to bear here and the subject matter and all the, and everything, all the ingredients he had to cook with.

• 1:06:35Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 1:06:36Andy Greenwald?

  And let me just say, the final result is not as picture perfect as that paella that was brought out, that took up, I believe, I didn't have my watch out, 17 minutes of screen time.

• 1:06:46Chris Ryan?

  It was unreal how long the paella scene was.

• 1:06:49Andy Greenwald?

  They kept talking about paella, and I'm like, the one positive about this paella explainer is that there is no way that this scene will be resolved by Billy Bob Thornton explaining how things actually are.

• 1:07:01Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:02Andy Greenwald?

  And lo and behold.

• 1:07:03Chris Ryan?

  He did.

• 1:07:03Andy Greenwald?

  He found a way to tell her that what she was expressing was not love, but an expectation of appreciation. And he'll do whatever she wants as long as he doesn't have to do anything, comma, woman. She was like, you're right, I'm dumb.

• 1:07:16Chris Ryan?

  You have not watched Yellowstone.

• 1:07:19Andy Greenwald?

  No, is, am I missing out? Is my observation correct?

• 1:07:22Chris Ryan?

  I would, I would say that this season of television, which has not even yet concluded, has replicated the feeling of watching the entirety of the Yellowstone.

• 1:07:31Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:07:31Chris Ryan?

  Where it starts out so strong and is so well constructed and the characterizations are so, immediately grab you by the lapels. And that there is like, this incredible world that you're being dropped into and there's a star at the center who's just fucking explaining how things are. And by the end of it, it's just chaos and spinoff suggestions and weird stunt casting and/or non-professional actors who are just like talking about the thing that the show is about. And I, I still like really enjoy watching this series, but, and we're getting into spoiler territory.

• 1:08:13Chris Ryan?

  It's entirely possible. Did you think that Jon Hamm's character died?

• 1:08:17Andy Greenwald?

  It seems like that's being set up. Yeah.

• 1:08:19Chris Ryan?

  I thought that they, they were delicate about, they left their options open, obviously. Like, he seems to be acting like his friend Monty is dead at the end and that he is in the land of wolves now, but the wolf gets shot by a woman who's like, "Stop beating my cat, wolf."

• 1:08:34Andy Greenwald?

  Coyote.

• 1:08:35Chris Ryan?

  Uh, coyote. That is like, to your point about the bag fumble, it's like, oh, so that was, this is like an extended Kyle Chandler appearance from Jon Hamm, who did like six episodes of talking on the phone. And Demi Moore is not going to take over the company and be the boss of-

• 1:08:53Andy Greenwald?

  Or is she? I mean, what did she do? The thing is, and I, and I love you for this, that I do think that in a lot of these shows, you find enough there that you love and respond to. And what I'm finding in watching Landman is that Taylor Sheridan, in his heart of hearts, believes Allie Larter discovering that old people are horny is equally important to the state of energy production in the United States. They are equally important in terms of what this show is about.

• 1:09:18Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:19Andy Greenwald?

  And I fundamentally disagree with that. I just disagree with the portion of resources.

• 1:09:24Chris Ryan?

  And by mid to late Yellowstone, it was like, he's, he thinks we're as interested in, like, who farted in the, the like, the sort of ranch hand, like bunkhouse?

• 1:09:38Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 1:09:38Chris Ryan?

  Is as important as whether or not Beth is going to kill Jamie in five minutes? So, like, yes.

• 1:09:44Andy Greenwald?

  It's so weird.

• 1:09:44Chris Ryan?

  He has a very, like, personal and original way of telling stories.

• 1:09:47Andy Greenwald?

  Can I, can I just point out one thing that I just feel, it, it does feel, it is an important corrective, and I'll say this to everyone out there who's still listening. You should watch a Taylor Sheridan show, even if you think you wouldn't like it, or even if you like listening.

• 1:09:59Chris Ryan?

  You should watch Lioness, the first season of Mayor of Kingstown, 1883, early Yellowstone.

• 1:10:04Andy Greenwald?

  That's not why I'm saying it. I'm saying you need to watch it as a corrective. It's like watching, you know, in The Matrix, when, when Neo sees the cat walk by twice? And he's like, "Something isn't right here."

• 1:10:14Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:14Andy Greenwald?

  That's how I felt in the scene when Allie Larter and her 35-year-old daughter are on the treadmill. The show's been going for a few weeks now. And they're just doing active butt work to get men. And Billy Bob Thornton calls Allie Larder to be like, hey, I love you.

• 1:10:31Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 1:10:32Andy Greenwald?

  Unclear why.

• 1:10:32Chris Ryan?

  The cartel might kill you or me.

• 1:10:35Andy Greenwald?

  Or Jon Hamm, my friend is dying and I've wasted my life. I've just said inspirational.

• 1:10:38Chris Ryan?

  I thought he was more nervous about the cartel.

• 1:10:40Andy Greenwald?

  No, I thought he was shake. That was completely forgotten after the first moment. And by the way, I love the way we know he's worried is because the camera's like zoom, zoom, zoom. He's like, where am I? No, I think he was like, my friend was just got a lecture from the, honestly, terrible general manager of the Dallas Cowboys. And now I should tell my people in my life that I love them. So he has this conversation. He's like, here's what's going on. Here's what I want. What are you doing with old people? He hangs up and then he has this same conversation.

• 1:11:08Chris Ryan?

  With his daughter.

• 1:11:08Andy Greenwald?

  With his daughter.

• 1:11:09Chris Ryan?

  Who's right next to Allie Larder.

• 1:11:10Andy Greenwald?

  No new information is exchanged here. Zero. It was the cat in the fucking matrix. I'm like, wait a second here. Wait a second.

• 1:11:21Chris Ryan?

  I thought, uh, just on pure acting chops.

• 1:11:26Andy Greenwald?

  This is, I want to have this conversation.

• 1:11:28Chris Ryan?

  I thought Jerry Jones was really good.

• 1:11:29Andy Greenwald?

  Jerry Jones was really good in this scene. I'm looking at the camera. You don't know how hard this is for us to admit.

• 1:11:36Chris Ryan?

  I was down bad. I was like, I can't believe I have to watch this fucking fossil.

• 1:11:42Andy Greenwald?

  Who represents pure evil as far as my sports fandom goes.

• 1:11:46Chris Ryan?

  Yes. He obviously is just telling a personal story and an anecdote. And it was not scripted. It was like, you just tell your thing, which is also very funny because the story is, I kept going to California because I missed my daughter, but luckily I also struck it mad rich.

• 1:12:05Andy Greenwald?

  There too.

• 1:12:06Chris Ryan?

  So that I could buy the Cowboys.

• 1:12:08Andy Greenwald?

  And run them into the ground over a period of 30 years, but at least my son is part of the failure. Honestly, though, was quite touching and he was not bad at all.

• 1:12:18Chris Ryan?

  Yes. It's really, really funny though, to watch that scene. And it's like Jerry Jones has like a five minute monologue and Hamm has just got tubes up his nose.

• 1:12:28Andy Greenwald?

  He's like, thank you, Mr. Jones. Did it make you reconsider anything? Because now I'm like, maybe I should be including both of my daughters in my failed development projects for Peacock. So they could be on the notes call for the pilot they didn't want to make. Do you know what I mean?

• 1:12:43Chris Ryan?

  The second I was like, ah, man, look at this guy. I was like, oh, yeah, he also just benched Cooper Rush today. So he didn't have to pay him $200,000.

• 1:12:51Andy Greenwald?

  That's fair. One of my favorite details, too, was when Jon Hamm is like, oh, my daughter's out there. And everyone is like, oh, you have children? They're not there because they've not been cast.

• 1:13:01Chris Ryan?

  Because when he goes and visits Jon Hamm at his house, remember, like, all his teen children are like partying in the pool?

• 1:13:07Andy Greenwald?

  I thought that was just to me more in the pool.

• 1:13:08Chris Ryan?

  No, it was their kids.

• 1:13:09Andy Greenwald?

  Maybe it was substance.

• 1:13:11Chris Ryan?

  What do you think about the promotion of Rebecca to Vice President of Negotiating?

• 1:13:19Andy Greenwald?

  No, exploration?

• 1:13:20Chris Ryan?

  Exploration, yeah.

• 1:13:22Andy Greenwald?

  Listen, when you have a-

• 1:13:23Chris Ryan?

  She wasn't in this episode. She keeps like not being in episodes.

• 1:13:26Andy Greenwald?

  Which is a boon. When you have a track record of professional competence like she does, of just walking into situations and handling them as poorly as they can possibly be handled, you have to promote her beyond her station. You simply must for plot reasons.

• 1:13:43Chris Ryan?

  It seems like she doesn't like Texas that much, like-

• 1:13:46Andy Greenwald?

  She doesn't like anything very much. She's a miserable character who dislikes snakes, her job, and decorum.

• 1:13:53Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:54Andy Greenwald?

  And yet-

• 1:13:56Chris Ryan?

  And people who are nearly blown up by oil rigs, yeah.

• 1:13:58Andy Greenwald?

  Low key, one of my favorite details of the show is any time-

• 1:14:01Chris Ryan?

  And widows.

• 1:14:02Andy Greenwald?

  She fucking hates horny widows more than anything.

• 1:14:05Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:05Andy Greenwald?

  Low key on the show, just do this for me. Anytime a woman is carrying a handbag, the bag is clearly empty.

• 1:14:12Chris Ryan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:14:13Andy Greenwald?

  They're all carrying bags that are waving in the breeze because right before- The same thing, like, the parfaits that she made for them. Those are craft services parfaits put into-

• 1:14:23Chris Ryan?

  A cup full of lard.

• 1:14:24Andy Greenwald?

  Tiny glasses. That is not where the attention is being diverted in this show. No, the thing that I appreciated most, I mean, I do kind of like watching elements of the show behaving like Bill Murray in Groundhog Day.

• 1:14:38Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:38Andy Greenwald?

  Where like, I'm like, Cooper's gonna help with the groceries. Cooper helps with the groceries. I'm like, but he's gonna drop a bag and she's gonna like, what am I gonna do with you?

• 1:14:45Chris Ryan?

  Like, you must be so fun.

• 1:14:46Andy Greenwald?

  I'm like, I'm so fun. I'm dialed in. Oh, I'm alone. I'm speaking to camera. Okay.

• 1:14:52Chris Ryan?

  You look like Jerry Jones.

• 1:14:54Andy Greenwald?

  I'm the fucking weirdo.

• 1:14:55Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:55Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 1:14:58Andy Greenwald?

  It, I, I do wanna give a shout out to Cooper's just vision board of how to be a successful businessman, which thus far involved devoting himself to doing grunt work for honestly, the bare minimum, taking a hundred body shots and then cleaning up and then literally cleaning up, like seeing something in Texas that no one has ever seen before. That scene with the old guy where he's like, "I'm gonna change your life, sir. My word is my bond." And the guy's like, "Well, checks out."

• 1:15:28Chris Ryan?

  Let's brew a cup of Folgers.

• 1:15:29Andy Greenwald?

  Let's have a cup of coffee together.

• 1:15:31Chris Ryan?

  Spit in my hand and shake it.

• 1:15:32Andy Greenwald?

  I like the cut of your jib, son.

• 1:15:33Chris Ryan?

  Uh, he's still my favorite part of the show is Cooper.

• 1:15:36Andy Greenwald?

  For sure.

• 1:15:37Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:37Andy Greenwald?

  Would you talk to military brass the way Tommy does?

• 1:15:43Chris Ryan?

  Probably not, but those guys are National Guard.

• 1:15:45Andy Greenwald?

  You respect the uniform, though.

• 1:15:46Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, sure. I salute the troops.

• 1:15:48Andy Greenwald?

  Do you, okay, last bit of business. When you are fielding work calls in the strip club?

• 1:15:54Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:55Andy Greenwald?

  Do you do it on speakerphone the way the cartel guy did? I just feel like the audio feat, like that's just, that's a lot of, that's tough, right? Like the bass is booming.

• 1:16:04Chris Ryan?

  Guys, can you turn it down?

• 1:16:05Andy Greenwald?

  Uh, I gotta take this on speakerphone. I'm talking about drug dealing.

• 1:16:10Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, can you, is everyone on board? You and the G-string. Okay, please go.

• 1:16:15Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. Go ahead, Tommy. I'm sorry.

• 1:16:17Andy Greenwald?

  I'm sorry, Thomas.

• 1:16:19Chris Ryan?

  That's all I got. I, I mean, we'll see, we'll see what happens with the next episode. I did not watch scenes from next week, but.

• 1:16:26Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, it's next week?

• 1:16:28Chris Ryan?

  The finale?

• 1:16:28Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:29Chris Ryan?

  This is the fucking finale? Well, it's the 10th episode. I don't know if they made 45 of them or what, but.

• 1:16:33Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, God. Okay, great.

• 1:16:34Chris Ryan?

  Well, now that I'm talking myself into maybe Demi Moore is, like, comes on and is like, "I'm taking over this company, actually." She could be the na, the new Monty.

• 1:16:43Andy Greenwald?

  If she doesn't do that, what was this for?

• 1:16:47Chris Ryan?

  I don't know.

• 1:16:48Andy Greenwald?

  Other than to sell, you know, when like, you know, when the, speaking of the team we were talking about earlier, when the Clippers, no, the Clippers, when the Clippers are like, we need to re-sign these players because we're opening a new arena.

• 1:16:58Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:59Andy Greenwald?

  Is that the Taylor Sheridan method of like, I'm going to blow our family out of the water by having all these stars on the poster when the show is not really going to be about them?

• 1:17:07Chris Ryan?

  But that could have been like a cameo, like she literally could have.

• 1:17:10Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, but she was still a third build on the promotional stuff.

• 1:17:12Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 1:17:12Andy Greenwald?

  So yes, you're totally right. It's not outside the realm of possibility because, but it would be, it would be, it would be a bummer.

• 1:17:19Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:19Andy Greenwald?

  Because it would be more interesting to see her eat.

• 1:17:22Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I don't know whether for Demi Moore after like the substance, whether she's like, it's better to like be the second lead and the antagonist on a Taylor Sheridan show or to like go.

• 1:17:31Andy Greenwald?

  Well, the question is, is that decision being made now? Because contractually, when did all this fall?

• 1:17:35Chris Ryan?

  I get the feeling.

• 1:17:35Andy Greenwald?

  And she didn't know the substance was going to hit.

• 1:17:36Chris Ryan?

  I don't know. Yeah.

• 1:17:38Andy Greenwald?

  I definitely don't know. Could we, um, should we just say for the record for people? I know people usually just fast forward to the last 45 seconds of the podcast for procedural stuff.

• 1:17:47Chris Ryan?

  Oh, you're going to say, I was going to save this for Thursday, but yeah.

• 1:17:50Andy Greenwald?

  That's what I was going to say. Like, where are we with the agency? Just because.

• 1:17:53Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, we'll talk about the agency on Thursday.

• 1:17:55Andy Greenwald?

  Should we talk about two episodes? Should we wait a second? Because it is, you know, I still love it.

• 1:17:59Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:59Andy Greenwald?

  I think it's really cooking right now, but.

• 1:18:01Chris Ryan?

  Let's pause in the age because I want to talk about Kunk on Thursday.

• 1:18:05Andy Greenwald?

  Oh my God, we didn't talk about Kunk.

• 1:18:06Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, Kunk on Life.

• 1:18:07Andy Greenwald?

  Oh my God, that's the only thing I like.

• 1:18:09Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, and.

• 1:18:10Andy Greenwald?

  Thank you.

• 1:18:11Chris Ryan?

  Couple of other things for Thursday.

• 1:18:12Andy Greenwald?

  Well, maybe the pit.

• 1:18:13Chris Ryan?

  The pit. If you can stomach it.

• 1:18:15Andy Greenwald?

  You don't think I'm going to be able to handle it?

• 1:18:16Chris Ryan?

  Just.

• 1:18:17Andy Greenwald?

  My issue is not, well, we'll see, but my issue is not like generally like body trauma.

• 1:18:23Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:18:24Andy Greenwald?

  I'm pro. Frankly, I'm, I'm at the forefront. You know, I live my life inside the blue tent.

• 1:18:29Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:29Andy Greenwald?

  You know what I mean? It's the, the ambient, like emotional anxiety stuff.

• 1:18:33Chris Ryan?

  Worrying about it happening. Okay.

• 1:18:35Andy Greenwald?

  Once it's happened, you know, head on a swivel.

• 1:18:38Chris Ryan?

  Thanks to CT and all the guys for filming us today and we'll be back on Thursday.

• 1:19:02Speaker 01

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• 1:19:46Speaker 01

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