Planned, Pure & Perfect? The Modern Pressure to OPTIMIZE Natural Birth (and What Happens When Plans Change) with Jen Hamilton

Here’s a run down of what we discussed in today’s episode: Jen’s Birth Story & Becoming a Labor Nurse Pregnancy & Birth Myths: What’s Evidence-Based? Can Food Really Induce Labor? Hospital Bag Essentials: What to Bring (and Skip) What to Eat Before and After Birth When Birth Doesn’t Go as Planned “Natural” Birth vs Medical Interventions The Fear Behind Epidurals, Inductions & Formula The Cascade of Interventions Explained Letting Go of Birth Shame Check in with today’s amazing guest: Jen Hamilton Website: www.jenhamilton.co Tiktok: tiktok.com/@_jen_hamilton_ Instagram: instagram.com/_jen_hamilton_ Youtube: youtube.com/@jenhamilton Book: Birth Vibes Disclaimer: The content in this episode is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is never a substitute for medical advice. If you’re struggling with with your mental or physical health, please work one on one with a health care provider. If you have heard yourself in our discussion today, and are looking for support, contact the free NEDIC helpline at 1-866-NEDIC-20 or go to eatingdisorderhope.com. • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • •✨ Reach Your Weight & Health Goals — Without Dieting! Pre-order The Hunger Crushing Combo Method, Abbey’s revolutionary additive approach to eating well. Learn how to boost satiety, stabilize blood sugars, reduce disease risk, and improve your relationship with food — all while getting the best nutrient bang for your caloric buck. With 400+ research citations, cheat sheets, evidence-based actionable tips, meal plans, and adaptable recipes, The Hunger Crushing Combo Method is the only nutrition bible you’ll ever need. 👉 Pre-order today! 🛒 Where to Purchase: Amazon Barnes & Noble Amazon Kindle Apple Books Google Play Kobo Apple Books (Audiobook) Audible abbeyskitchen.com/hunger-crushing-combo • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • •✉️ Subscribe to My Newsletters: Abbey’s Kitchen Newsletter 📘 Check out my FREE E-Books: Hunger Crushing Combo™ E-Book Protein 101 E-Book 👋 Follow me! Instagram: @abbeyskitchen TikTok: @abbeyskitchen YouTube: @AbbeysKitchen Blog: abbeyskitchen.com Book: The Mindful Glow Cookbook • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • 🎧 Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen — and leave us a review! It really helps support the show ❤️ 💬 If you liked this podcast, please like, follow, and leave a review — and let me know who you’d love to hear about next! ⭐ ⭐ ⭐⭐ ⭐ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  Low energy, unfocused, foggy? You might be dehydrated. Whether it's hot yoga, over 100-degree weather, or too much sun. Gator Light, with a specialized blend of five electrolytes, was scientifically designed to help move fluids into the body faster for rapid rehydration. Shop now at retailers nationwide. Gator Light: Hydrates Faster Than Water. Is it in you? Symptoms noted are signs of mild to moderate dehydration. Consult a healthcare professional if symptoms persist.

• 0:30Speaker 01

  There's this fear, that's a very logical fear, because it does happen, of having bad things happen because of interventions. And I'm here to tell you, it happens all the time. But I think that the underlying part of that is protection.

• 0:52Abbey Sharp?

  Welcome to another episode of Bite Back with Abbey Sharp, where I dismantle diet culture rules, call it the charlatan spinning the pseudoscience, and help you achieve food freedom for good. Today's episode is for my friends who are currently pregnant, have been pregnant, want to be pregnant, or have pregnant people in your lives that you want to support. Because we have everyone's favorite labor and delivery nurse on the show today, Jen Hamilton. Honestly, I wish I had someone like Jen around when I was going through my first pregnancy, because she makes what often feels like an unpredictable time way less scary. And in her upcoming book, Birth Vibes, coming out in May,

• 1:37Abbey Sharp?

  she breaks it all down with her signature empathetic, inclusive, and hilarious tone, helping to demystify all of the pregnancy and birthing lore for good. And speaking of books, as you know, because I've been yapping about it forever now, The Hunger Crushing Combo Method is now on shelves and online, and I would really love if you would give it a read or listen, if you prefer an audiobook version. I did the recording myself. I already know that you are going to learn so much. I have been reading every single one. Of your amazing reviews and comments about the book. And so I just know that this book is going to help so, so many. So if you haven't already picked up a copy, I would love if you would check it out.

• 2:21Abbey Sharp?

  Also, I know you guys know this already because I've raised you all very well. But I just have to say that the information in this episode is never a replacement for personalized healthcare advice. So please do speak to your doctor about your unique needs, especially at a sensitive time like pregnancy. But if you are not already, I would also love if you would subscribe to this podcast wherever you are listening right now and leave me a little five star review. It really, really helps me out, whether you are on Amazon or Apple. Same thing with the book. If you've read it, you know, Amazon, Apple, Goodreads, Audible, wherever you are listening to this or reading the book or listening to the book. I would love your reviews. It really, really does make the world of a difference.

• 3:06Abbey Sharp?

  Okay. But I am so pumped to get into this interview. So let's do it.

• 3:15Abbey Sharp?

  All right, Jen, thank you so much for joining me. You don't know me, but I'm definitely, I'm going to be your friend because I feel like we're going to get along and I love your vibe. I love your style. I loved Birth Vibes, your new book.

• 3:31Speaker 01

  Thank you so much.

• 3:32Abbey Sharp?

  You started that book with your birth story. So can you share like how your experience impacted your own kind of professional practice?

• 3:44Speaker 01

  So I have had two pregnancies and each of those were very different. My first pregnancy was very unexpected. So I find myself really relating to patients who come in where this was not their plan. And then my second was kind of planned, kind of not, but I knew just about as much equally. So I was an ER nurse when I had both of my babies. So I did not know much about labor or birth at all. I asked my nurse, my nurse is like, please do not talk to me like I'm a nurse. I need you to treat me as if I am not anyone who knows anything about anything. So, and they did, which was wonderful because I needed somebody to kind of walk me through that.

• 4:29Speaker 01

  Um, but it was really important for me to put my own birth story first because I needed people to know that like, I get it. Like, I know what it feels like to not know what's happening to your body. I get what it feels like to feel scared or feel unsure about what's gonna happen next. And so I, I was really unsure about putting it in there at first because I was like, I don't want to make this about me. But I, I think that I'm, I mean, I'm really glad that I did now because I think that it kind of sets the tone for like, I'm here with you, not I'm here to talk at you.

• 5:10Abbey Sharp?

  Yeah, no, I, I, I thank you for sharing that. You know, I just think it's very empowering to use your experience to shape your current work, you know, in, you know, in my book, The Hunger, Crush and Calm Method, I, I also start with my own eating disorder recovery story and how, you know, I harnessed that hardship into energy and momentum to, you know, demand change in this space. And, and you're such an inspiration. Um, so if anyone's gonna convince me to have another kid, it is you. You're great. I'm not gonna do it. I'm not gonna do it. But also, no, yes. But okay, so on, you know, here on the Bite

• 5:50Abbey Sharp?

  Back Podcast, we love to bring expert guidance and science to debunk misinformation and just help people make more informed health choices. So I'd love to hear your thoughts on some of like trending topics in, in this space. Um, because I feel there's so many wives tales around birthing and motherhood. It's just like ingrained into the fabric of generations of women storytelling. Um, so the first one I want to kind of ask you about, I'm sure you hear is like, can you induce labor by eating certain foods?

• 6:24Speaker 01

  I wish, man, that would be so much easier. Um, you are not going to put yourself into labor if your body's not ready for labor. So I don't think that any of those things like eating dates and pineapple juice, I don't think that there's anything wrong with it. Um, but I think that sometimes people can get really disappointed if they just, you know, Slam dates and pineapple juice and nothing happens. Um, so I think that, you know, there's always some level of, you know, tempering your expectations about what that will provide for you. But also knowing, hey, if you want to try it, that's okay, too. Um, but there, you know, some people online who are like, this is what took me into labor.

• 7:07Speaker 01

  And we're just always reaching for that thing, that one thing that's going to make it, uh, happen for us. So I don't think there's anything wrong with it. Unless you're trying to induce in some crazy way, like shoving stuff up there or, you know, drinking castor oil or something like that.

• 7:25Abbey Sharp?

  Yeah.

• 7:25Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, I don't think there's any harm in it, but I, I see people get very disappointed at the end of pregnancy.

• 7:32Abbey Sharp?

  Hundred percent. I, uh, when, when you're in that state and you're, you're, you're balls deep in the mom Reddit threads of like,

• 7:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:40Abbey Sharp?

  what's gonna help, you know, you're in that, that mentality of like, I have to do everything and try everything.

• 7:46Speaker 01

  Right.

• 7:46Abbey Sharp?

  And so like, even I remember of my first pregnancy, I was going overdue. My doctor did not want me to go overdue because I was an IVF mom. And he was, so I was like, okay, red raspberry leaf tea every day, which tastes like shit. Bouncing on the balls, spicy food, sex, walking, the dates, the dates. Oh, you have to eat like six to eight dates every day. It's like, it's a lot of sugar.

• 8:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:08Abbey Sharp?

  It did nothing. I had to be induced twice. So,

• 8:11Speaker 01

  Right.

• 8:11Abbey Sharp?

  you know, and so, but, but there is that element for moms that like so desperately, we want to feel like we're controlling something that is ultimately an uncontrollable situation.

• 8:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:23Abbey Sharp?

  Also, that kind of gave me a thought because sometimes birth is unpredictable and you don't always like, you don't get to time it with like af- after a nicely filling meal, so to speak, that like gives you all the energy that you feel like you're going to need to go through the marathon of birth.

• 8:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:39Abbey Sharp?

  Um, and fuel does matter. Like it is quite a marathon. What do you typically suggest like women eat while they're still in that like early labor stage where they're not throwing up? They're not shaking. Um, the pain is tolerable. What, what do you suggest?

• 8:57Speaker 01

  So it really depends on what they can tolerate too. Cause sometimes you've got people with like aversions and stuff like that. But power foods and power drinks, power drinks, I think are really important because, um,

• 9:11Speaker 01

  As your labor progresses, understand that you may see whatever you eat again. And that's okay. It's a part of labor. Did you throw up in labor at all?

• 9:21Abbey Sharp?

  Oh, my God. So much. So much. My first, my first, I was throwing up like basically at the point when I did the pushing. But with my second, I was on the way to the hospital yakking like outside the hospital doors, just like throwing up in front, like in front of the people waiting outside. I had no shame at that point. Yes.

• 9:42Speaker 01

  And I want people to know that they can make their own big girl decisions about what they choose to eat and drink in labor. There are some hospitals with very outdated policies saying that you can't have anything to eat or drink, which is wild. Like, labor is a marathon and I couldn't expect you to run a marathon having no sustenance at all. So just know that you can make your own decisions. The reason that they say that, it's outdated research, but it's saying that like, you know, if you go into labor, everybody is at risk of having a C-section urgently or not. And if your stomach is full and you lay back, I mean, you could throw up. And if you're throwing up on your back, you could aspirate that.

• 10:26Speaker 01

  And that would obviously not be a good situation. So understand why they say that. But at the same time, if you're not getting enough nutrition during your labor, it can, I mean, that impacts how your muscles contract and your uterus is a big muscle. So I've seen people bring in like Gatorades or Powerades or like liquid IV kind of things where people are, you know, like you have like the electrolytes and stuff, some type of electrolyte, electrolyte drink. Those honey sticks are really great. If you feel like you can't tolerate much on your stomach, absolutely. Some carbs.

• 11:06Abbey Sharp?

  Yeah, that's where the candy came in. I was just sugar.

• 11:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, candy, absolutely. Yeah. I think that having just those like quick, easy things are really helpful. And just, I tell people if, when they come in to have a baby, think light. Think brunchy, light stuff. Don't be thinking, cook out double cheeseburger, because that might not sit on your stomach very well soon. You may feel like you want to in the beginning. You may not want to, you may not want to see that again later.

• 11:36Abbey Sharp?

  That's the mistake I basically made both times, even though it didn't end very well for me the first time, because I was, I had in my head that now that like the labor was starting, I wanted to speed it up. So I went and got myself the spiciest ramen noodles you could order. That did not feel good coming back up.

• 11:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:54Abbey Sharp?

  And I knew that was going to be the case, but I was also like so hell bent on like, yeah, let's get this baby like out. And I paid for that. That was rough. That was very, very rough. So, yeah.

• 12:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, spicy ramen twice is not.

• 12:08Abbey Sharp?

  Yeah. Not, it's not. I think you learn, but you don't. You forget. That's why you have more than one baby, right? You forget about the.

• 12:14Speaker 01

  That's right. That's right.

• 12:29Abbey Sharp?

  Um, okay. So for funsies, um, what do most moms like want to eat after birth? Like, what do you find is like the most common request?

• 12:36Speaker 01

  Oh, sushi and a Jimmy John's sub. Like, those are like the most common things. Cause you know, they say like, oh, you can't have lunch meat or whatever, uh, in your pregnancy and raw fish. And so I have people say, my husband's gonna get me a sushi boat after this, or, you know, Jimmy John's sub. They want the lunch meat. They want the, the raw fish.

• 12:59Abbey Sharp?

  Yeah. I, I, I always like, I, I really romanticized that, like, post meal, like after the marathon of birth. And I was like dreaming of like, someone was gonna bring me champagne. My husband was gonna go pick me up like a medium rare cheeseburger from like my favorite burger place.

• 13:15Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 13:16Abbey Sharp?

  Um, and that was like, that was in my birth plan, like no joke. But once baby was there, like I hemorrhaged both, both pregnancies. Um, so I had lost so much blood. I was like, oh, delirious. I had, you know, felt nauseous. I was, I was not ready for a cheeseburger and wine. And so I think the fir-, the first thing I had with my, with my first son was like a croissant with, um, like jam on it. And that was like, but that tasted like, like Lana from heaven. Like it tasted so. So good.

• 13:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:47Abbey Sharp?

  Um, because I was just so hungry at that point. But yeah, you have to just kind of see, like I, knowing what it felt like after birth, I can't imagine craving raw fish, even if I otherwise normally would, I would just be like, that is a no for me right now.

• 14:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's a, I think that's a beautiful explanation of kind of what it's like to plan labor and birth, because in the book I talk about that, uh, planning your birth is kind of like planning a surprise party for someone you've never met. So you may think that you want something, but it's also important to give yourself grace if you don't want that. Like I've had plenty of people put in their birth plan that they want, you know, their partner to rub their back or, you know, do their hair or whatever. And they're like, don't touch me.

• 14:33Abbey Sharp?

  Don't touch me.

• 14:33Speaker 01

  And that's okay, you know, just kind of going with the flow of what you, what you're feeling and then then and now.

• 14:40Abbey Sharp?

  Yeah, that is absolutely my experience. Um, okay. So, you know, here on this podcast, we often talk about the dangers of diet culture and wellness culture. And, and something that often kind of comes up in these conversations is this concept of an appeal to nature's fallacy. And this is essentially the assumption that anything man-made, like medication or seed oils or whatever it might be, is bad. And anything natural, like an herbal supplement, or like beef tallow or whatever, is good. And I love how inclusive you are in the book in helping, you know, meet people where they are in their birth plans and desires.

• 15:20Abbey Sharp?

  Even, you know, if they explicitly reject a kind of medical or quote, quote, like unnatural interventions, like an epidural or an induction. Um, and, and, and that's so great, of course, especially if everything goes well. But in sticky situations, when it might become like life or death, and you have to very quickly convince mom that perhaps the unnatural intervention that she so desperately wants to avoid may save her or her baby's life. How do you do that without losing your shit and actually getting them on board?

• 15:57Speaker 01

  So my job is never to convince people. It's only to.

• 16:03Speaker 01

  Give everyone the information that they need to make their their own decisions. And that's been probably the hardest part about being a labor delivery nurse is because I have to protect people's decisions, even if I don't agree with them.

• 16:16Abbey Sharp?

  Right.

• 16:17Speaker 01

  And as long as I have given them the risks and benefits of everything of of both accepting or declining something, even if something bad happens, I have to be neutral in that. And that's really hard. It's really hard. So I think that also there's a lot of people who come in very afraid that they're going to be coerced into doing something.

• 16:41Abbey Sharp?

  Yep.

• 16:42Speaker 01

  And it can be a very hard, very fine line between, you know, real information and coercion.

• 16:51Abbey Sharp?

  Yeah.

• 16:52Speaker 01

  And I never want to be somebody who is making someone feel like she made me do that, or like I had no choice in the matter. But there are some times where we're in a really sticky situation. I need to give you the down and dirty of of what's happening right now. And it can be very scary. But the way that I kind of uh help those situations to go a little bit better is that in the beginning of our process together, I like to talk about the things that can come up, the things that can happen. Like ninety percent of babies at some point during labor will have some sort of deceleration in their heart rate. Um, and it doesn't mean that something's bad or wrong. It just happens.

• 17:37Speaker 01

  But if those continue, what what kind of options do we have? Um, or if someone comes in and they have gestational diabetes, I talk about, you know, how that can affect their baby's lungs as when the baby comes out and the things that may may happen. And just because it happens and it feels very scary doesn't mean that I I don't um that I'm not prepared for that. So I like to talk about these situations ahead of time as much as I can to kind of gauge where they are and their comfort level with each thing so that I can best advocate for them in those situations. But it's it can be very difficult in really sticky situations to know that, you know, whatever they decide, I'm going to.

• 18:21Speaker 01

  Abide by even if it means that something happens. I mean, because you can't force anyone into care.

• 18:30Abbey Sharp?

  Of course, yeah. And medicine is all about risks and benefits and trying to balance that. And obviously, those risks and benefits are going to look different for each patient. And I love that you, you know, the point you're really trying to get across in this book is that at the end of the day, health professionals are the guides. They guide with the facts and knowledge is power. But you ultimately have to do that risk benefit analysis yourself. But I'm curious, speaking to women who have subscribed wholeheartedly to, you know, an all natural birth, they don't want any interventions, no matter what. You know, I've read some of the stories in your book.

• 19:13Abbey Sharp?

  What do you feel is the underlying fear behind this idea of like having to have an epidural or having to start pitocin to induce or giving baby formula because your milk has not come in?

• 19:27Speaker 01

  So I think that when people have any kind of desires for their labor and birth, it comes from what they need as a human, right? So and most of the time, labor and birth goes better when we don't mess with anything. Interventions are there for when something goes different, right? And there's this fear that's a very logical fear because it does happen of having

• 19:59Speaker 01

  bad things happen because of interventions. And I'm here to tell you, it happens all the time. But I think that the underlying part of that is protection. Protection from intervention, yes, but also protection from bad things that can happen from intervention. And I think that it's important that when you're planning your labor or your birth, giving yourself grace to work with new information and not against. And so some things that people can ask if they feel like, you know, oh, I think everything is going fine, why are they offering me this? Is you can ask like, what has changed? What has changed in my labor or birth that you think that this is the recommendation now?

• 20:43Speaker 01

  What can happen if I don't do this? What can happen if I do do this?

• 20:49Speaker 01

  So that people can make the best decisions for them in the moment. In the book, I have a situation where someone had planned for a no intervention birth, and then things started to not go how she thought. And so there is this, um, there's this feeling of, of wanting to protect that situation from outside intervention, uh, in order to protect from further intervention, like the cascade of interventions. But there's also freedom in working with new information, giving yourself grace to adapt to a new situation, rather than holding tightly to something that is taking you further away from your dream birth.

• 21:32Abbey Sharp?

  Right. Yeah. Yeah, I remember reading about the cascade of interventions and that also, you know, scaring me. It's, you know, I think, I guess one of the questions that I have is, do you think that the literal base fear of this cascade of interventions is, I don't wanna, I don't wanna cut across my stomach, um, like I don't wanna C-section? Or do you think it is the base fear of like, I don't wanna be robbed of what was supposed to be this natural intuitive experience, which now leaves me to feel like a failure as a woman and mom?

• 22:15Speaker 01

  I think it can be both equally, honestly. I mean, I'll ask people a lot of times whenever I first meet them, what are you most afraid of happening today? And most of the time, when I ask that question, it is a C-section. And so I will do everything in my power to protect against that. And sometimes it does happen in a way that they don't want to happen. But if they are able to leave that situation, knowing that they gave it everything that they got, and they were able to adapt to new information, making the best decisions that they can for themselves, I feel like that helps to decrease some of that guilt or trauma or disappointment from their birth.

• 22:56Speaker 01

  Um, I had a girl recently who wanted, um, a vaginal birth after cesarean, which I love, I absolutely love. And so she felt that like the cascade of interventions last time had kind of led her to have this experience that she did not want. And so.

• 23:16Speaker 01

  She wanted to go into spontaneous labor this time. She absolutely did. And she'd made every decision along the way that should have led her to a vaginal birth. And when days and days and days happen and it didn't happen that way. And she ended up needing a C-section. She knew that she gave it everything that she had. And that she wasn't leaving that experience saying, well, like, well, what if I waited a little bit longer? Or what if I, you know, she felt very confident in her decision to get a C-section at the end. Because she had followed her, her own intuition and was able to give herself grace with each of the decisions that she made during her labor.

• 23:58Abbey Sharp?

  Right. Yeah, Noah, I think that that's amazing. And so unfortunately, you and I are both healthcare providers. And, and I have found since COVID, there has been an enormous increase in distrust of healthcare providers. And obviously, you know, government kind of medical organizations as well. Which means that I often see a lot of discussion about this. I don't want to, I don't know if it's a conspiracy. I don't know if it's true. So I'm kind of asking you that doctors are kind of pushing, so to speak, more interventions so that they can bill more, so that they can get in and out faster. They can schedule these C-sections, blah, blah, blah.

• 24:44Abbey Sharp?

  You know, so for the, the average person reading these things in their mom group, what, what do you have to say about that?

• 24:53Speaker 01

  I think that it's important to find a healthcare team that you trust. Because if you go into this with a, a doctor's office or a team that you are like, I really don't feel like I know these people well enough to take care of me. That can be scary. And now I want to preface this by saying that there will be people who don't have a choice in their, in their team. And that is, that is valid. And I understand that can be very difficult to trust people when you have never met them before or you don't know about them. But I think that there's some questions that you can ask to kind of get your gauge on that. One of them is their C-section rate. Now, I think that

• 25:38Speaker 01

  Both having a C-section rate that is very, very high can be a red flag, but also having a C-section rate that is extremely low can, which just sounds crazy, can also be a red flag because you can have a provider who is so quick to cut. Like if anything goes differently, their automatic response to that is immediate C-section now, which can cause a cascade of problems in someone's life fertility wise. Or, you know, because a C-section is a big deal, right? So it leads, it can lead to things like placenta accretia, procreta, encreta, where the placenta can grow into the uterus and through.

• 26:21Speaker 01

  And so like there's, there's things that can happen from C-sections, infections, uh, you know, like there's a lot of things that can happen. So it is a major surgery. I do not want to downplay that at all. Um, but at the same time, you can have a provider who is so worried about having a low C-section rate that they, I don't want to say ignore, but they delay intervening in situations that need it. Right? So I think that having a provider that intervenes when appropriate, instead of intervenes immediately all the time or not at all. I think that having a provider who is balanced in those things can kind of prevent you from feeling like

• 27:06Speaker 01

  you're just a cow in a chute, you know? Or someone who is not getting the care that they need because someone is so worried about their C-section rate. So you can ask like, things like C-section rate, uh, NICU rate. Like if you have somebody who is, um, not intervening when they should, they might have a low, low C-section rate, but a really high NICU rate. So like, what is, you know, there's a trade off for anything that.

• 27:37Speaker 01

  Any kind of rate that's really high or really low, there's a trade off of that.

• 27:42Abbey Sharp?

  Yep.

• 27:42Speaker 01

  Low C-section rate can mean increased NICU rate.

• 27:47Speaker 01

  Maybe not, you know, maybe there's some, there's some providers out there who's like, it's the perfect low C-section rate. Everybody does great.

• 27:54Abbey Sharp?

  Just got luck.

• 27:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, but then you can have somebody who's got a super high C-section rate and you know, that can lead to problems later. So I think that having a team that you trust and knowing that like you can interview providers. You can ask them these questions. You can, and I want to say that there are people who won't have this opportunity. There are maternity care deserts, there are places that don't have the kind of care that they would need. There's people there that are limited by their choice due to insurance or something like that. So I, I want to make sure that I, I preface that if you're, if you're in a place where you can interview people, that you do have the choice and that's an awesome thing to do.

• 28:36Speaker 01

  Talking to your friends who have had babies, who felt cared for, who felt dismissed, who felt that they were rushed, who felt, you know, like,

• 28:43Abbey Sharp?

  Yeah.

• 28:44Speaker 01

  What providers are going to take the time to listen to you and that kind of stuff. And even if you get to the hospital and there is a doctor on call who you've never met before and you're scared or you don't feel like you're getting the care that you need. There are ways that you can advocate for yourself in labor, ask questions. You can even fire like a nurse, you know what I'm saying? Like if you don't feel, feel like you're getting the care that you deserve, there's always things that you can do.

• 29:24Abbey Sharp?

  Okay, just last question here, Jen. What would you tell moms who? Perhaps feel like they have failed because some aspect of their birth plan did not pan out, or who are terrified of like the perceived shame that they may feel if they can't do childbirth the kind of natural way. What parting words can you maybe leave us all with to start healing? Because this is something that I would say most moms that I speak to feel some kind of pain over their birth story.

• 29:59Speaker 01

  I think that going into it with grace, right? Going into it with grace for yourself, for your body, for your baby, and knowing that none of y'all have ever done this before. Even if you've had babies before, you ain't never had this baby before, you know?

• 30:14Abbey Sharp?

  Right.

• 30:15Speaker 01

  So giving yourself grace going into it, and then afterwards, knowing that there's no easy way to get a baby out. There's no, like, every, no one comes out of this unscathed completely, you know? So there is gonna be situations where, you know, you feel like, I wonder if I did this differently, or, you know? However, if you are able to adapt to new information, making the best decision that you can with the information that you have, you can leave that experience knowing that you did make the best decision with the information that you had. Even if things go different than you thought, even if things

• 30:56Speaker 01

  go completely off the rails, that this baby and this birth is completely different than any birth that you've ever had, even if you've had babies before. And if you are struggling with feeling guilt, or shame, or trauma, or disappointment over your birth story, there are resources available to you. And don't just assume that like, oh, this is just how it needs to be because it happened. I mean, there, so there's an organization called Postpartum Support International, or PSI, and they have wonderful resources if you're dealing with birth trauma, where you can talk it out, you can kind of get clarity and closure on things.

• 31:38Speaker 01

  Because I think that there's a lot of birth trauma and guilt and disappointment over not understanding what happened.

• 31:46Abbey Sharp?

  Yes.

• 31:47Speaker 01

  Right? Because you're going into a situation where you only know what the, what you felt during, right? But finding information about the medical things that went on, why things were recommended, why things, uh, why you decided on things, um, can help you kind of give yourself grace and process things that maybe didn't feel so clear in the moment.

• 32:09Abbey Sharp?

  Yeah, cuz it's all happening so fast. You're hormonal, you're scared, you know, there's beefing things, like it's so overstimulating and you, people are yelling. I mean, yes, it's very hard to feel like you're making a, a, a really, you know, clear cut decision in that moment without really being able to have time to process everything. So I think that's, to unpack it after the fact is really, really helpful. So, oh, love this. Thank you so much, Jen, for coming on to chat.

• 32:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, thank you so much for having me.

• 32:43Abbey Sharp?

  And thank you for everything that you do. Um, you know, you're empathy in this world is just such a shining light, especially right now in this world that we are living in. So I wish you so much luck on this tour. The book is amazing.

• 32:56Speaker 01

  Thank you so much.

• 32:58Abbey Sharp?

  Friends, don't forget to check out Jen's book, Birth Vibes. It is online and in store this May 5th, correct?

• 33:05Speaker 01

  That's right. That's right. Thank you so, so much. I really appreciate it.

• 33:09Abbey Sharp?

  Uh, I just know this conversation is going to feel so cathartic to so many of you listening right now. But you know, something that really stuck with me from this conversation is how much birth mirrors our relationship with food. You know, in both of these cases, we are often told as women to optimize and control it, you know, with our five-page birth or meal plans and these hard sets of rules, but at the same time to quote-unquote "naturalize" something that our body was quote-unquote "designed" to know how to do. And God forbid, we need some kind of guidance or support or to deviate from the plan, whether it's, you know, eating carbs or taking rest or medication or formula or interventions,

• 33:54Abbey Sharp?

  basically anything that we We're told we don't need or we should not do. We have somehow failed in our roles as good women. I don't know who needs to hear this, but hard rules and restriction, whether related to food or pain relief or rest or support, has never made anyone stronger in the long run. It has never actually put us in line with our body's true wisdom. So if you are preparing for childbirth or looking back with sadness on an experience of the past, I want you to remember that you do not need to justify your choices or your outcomes. You don't have to earn your birth story.

• 34:36Abbey Sharp?

  And you don't owe anyone an explanation for how you got your baby here. You're allowed to change your plan. You're allowed to survive the thing without romanticizing it. You're allowed to lean on unnatural supports that make natural processes possible. You know, there's no moral hierarchy when it comes to birth. You know, we're just humans doing the best we can with the information and fear and love and unpredictability that we are handed. And honestly, having to juggle all of those things is one of the first of many that we're going to have to make as moms. So like with food, a quick reminder that birth doesn't need to be 100%

• 35:19Abbey Sharp?

  quote unquote, "natural" to be meaningful and beautiful. And you do not need to suffer to be strong. But I'm just going to leave it at that for now. I want to again, thank everybody for listening. And a big thank you again to Jen for helping me bite back against wellness culture. Definitely check out both of our books and I'll be linking to both of them in the show notes. So signing off with Science and Saz, I'm Abbey Sharp. Thanks for listening.

• 35:52Speaker 03

  When you shop Kroger delivery, you can expect the savings you love and fresh groceries delivered right to your door. From delicious produce to everyday essentials, enjoy the convenience of delivery and the trusted selection you've come to know from Kroger. Because bringing you fresh, quality groceries is what we do best. Right now, enjoy free delivery on orders of $50 or more with your digital coupon. Restrictions apply. See site for details. Kroger, fresh for everyone.