Performative Males and Black Cat Boyfriends with Alec Flynn

We have a fun one for you! Comedian Alec Flynn joins us to talk about The Performative Male (Are they a red flag? Is there a spectrum? How do you spot the "bad ones"?) as well as Black Cat Boyfriends vs. Golden Retriever Boyfriends. We also break down an email from a male listener about why he's having trouble dating and offer advice for how to build confidence, and we discuss the notion that men have disappeared from the social and/or dating scenes and why. Other topics include: Leg tattoos, conspiracy theories about gambling, and panda diplomacy (we learned something new). Before Alec joins us, we're talking about green flags in guys – everything from how they treat animals to drinking habits to what kind of music they like. Enjoy! Follow Alec on Instagram at @bigalflynn, check out his podcast Big Al's Grill ASMR, and get tickets to his shows at https://punchup.live/alecflynn. Follow us on Instagram @girlsgottaeatpodcast, Ashley @ashhess, and Rayna @rayna.greenberg. Visit girlsgottaeat.com for LIVE SHOW TICKETS and more! Thank you to our partners this week: Quince: Get free shipping and 365-day returns on your next order at https://quince.com/gge. Article: Get $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more at http://article.com/gge. Bilt: Get points by paying rent at https://joinbilt.com/gge. Function: Our first 1000 listeners get a $100 credit toward your membership at https://functionhealth.com/gge or use code GGE100. Nutrafol: Get $10 off your first order and free shipping at https://nutrafol.com with code GGE10. Hungry Root: Get 40% off your first box and free item in every box for life at https://hungryroot.com/gge with code GGE. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  We gotta talk about the performative male. I have a tote. Listen, I got a tote. I got like tattoos. I may or may not read some Joan Didion here and there, but I gotta say this right now.

• 0:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  This podcast is a Dear Media production.

• 0:28Rayna Greenberg?

  Hi, guys.

• 0:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  Hi, guys.

• 0:29Rayna Greenberg?

  Welcome back to another episode of Girls Gotta Eat.

• 0:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  Big day. Tickets are on sale for the holiday shows.

• 0:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  Girls Gotta Eat Holiday Spectacular.

• 0:38Rayna Greenberg?

  Two nights only.

• 0:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  Two night stand.

• 0:40Rayna Greenberg?

  LA, New York, that is it. We haven't been on tour this year, but we would never leave you hanging for the holiday shows. So they are on sale today, 10 a.m. local time at girlsgottaeat.com. LA, we will see you on December 6th, Saturday night. In New York, we will see you December 13th, Saturday night. Our biggest shows ever are the holiday shows. We, we love them. They're wild and crazy.

• 1:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  You're gonna be feral. Like the vibes, that's the vibe.

• 1:03Rayna Greenberg?

  I'm, oh, them or me. I've been feral lately.

• 1:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, like I just feel like, I mean, I think we both will be, but like we haven't done this in so long.

• 1:12Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes.

• 1:12Ashley Hesseltine?

  So I don't even know what's gonna happen. We gotta talk after this about some things.

• 1:18Rayna Greenberg?

  Like just.

• 1:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's happening in my life?

• 1:20Rayna Greenberg?

  No, the, the shows.

• 1:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's the people we're booking.

• 1:24Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay.

• 1:24Ashley Hesseltine?

  Who's running this shit? Things like that.

• 1:27Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, alright. Oh, the logistics of the show. I think you might have been like my dating life.

• 1:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  We can talk about that too. Guys, Raina says logistics.

• 1:35Rayna Greenberg?

  Logistics?

• 1:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  Don't play around now.

• 1:38Rayna Greenberg?

  How do I say it?

• 1:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  You always say lodge. You love to say logist.

• 1:42Rayna Greenberg?

  Logist. You say costumes.

• 1:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  But let us know in the comments if you're a logistics or a logistics.

• 1:51Rayna Greenberg?

  So the logistics.

• 1:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  Now you're saying it right, because you've been caught.

• 1:58Rayna Greenberg?

  No, I say stuff, I say Vegas weird and I don't hear it. Like I hear what you're saying about logistics, but.

• 2:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  Right. You've never said it correctly in your life. And now that you've been put on blast.

• 2:06Rayna Greenberg?

  Vegas, I don't hear. I don't hear that at all.

• 2:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  Do you say legs?

• 2:10Rayna Greenberg?

  Legs.

• 2:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  Legs? Okay.

• 2:11Rayna Greenberg?

  What do you say?

• 2:12Ashley Hesseltine?

  Legs? No, legs. Like the people who say Vegas and legs, that's the same.

• 2:18Rayna Greenberg?

  How do you say Vegas?

• 2:19Ashley Hesseltine?

  Vegas?

• 2:20Rayna Greenberg?

  People say like Vegas. I don't say like that.

• 2:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  Vegas?

• 2:24Rayna Greenberg?

  Vegas.

• 2:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  Like veg?

• 2:27Rayna Greenberg?

  Las Vegas.

• 2:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  Like vegetable? Veg, veg. Yeah. I say like it's an A.

• 2:31Rayna Greenberg?

  Bay, bay.

• 2:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. Anyway, guys, get those tickets, girls, get eat.com. We cannot wait to see you.

• 2:37Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes. And bring your friends, most importantly, but bring your partners, your mom, your grandma. We've lost people to bring their families to travel for it. It's very funny. And we always do an outfit theme and we'll announce that soon. So you guys can get your looks ready.

• 2:50Ashley Hesseltine?

  I will say Minneapolis, last year, that grandma, first of all, I got like very emotional because I missed my grandma. But we brought that grandma on stage, like Minneapolis last year was my favorite show of the whole tour. It was the grandma and then Alex got engaged.

• 3:09Rayna Greenberg?

  Right.

• 3:10Ashley Hesseltine?

  And it was just a perfect show, no notes.

• 3:12Rayna Greenberg?

  Was that the year that the manager of the venue, we found him on Bumble? You know that guy, that hot guy who ran the venue?

• 3:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, Clint.

• 3:21Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, we talked about it. No, we brought it up and then the girl was like, I know him. Remember? We shared the story. Anyway, I have a Minneapolis update, but let's talk about our, our partners.

• 3:30Rayna Greenberg?

  All right. We'll thank our partners and then we'll get into it. Thank you to Quince. Get free shipping and 365 a day returns on your next order at quince.com slash GGE. And Article, get $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more at article.com slash GGE. And Bilt, get points by paying rent at joinbilt.com slash GGE.

• 3:47Ashley Hesseltine?

  And thank you to Function. Our first 1,000 listeners get a $100 credit toward your membership at functionhealth.com/gge, or you can use code GGE100. And Nutraful, get $10 off your first order and free shipping at nutrafol.com with code GGE10. And Hungry Root, get 40% off your first box and a free item in every box for life at hungryroot.com/gge with code GGE. Okay, so just a quick personal announcement. I just decided to add another show to my tour because I'm just not busy enough. You know, like I am not

• 4:19Rayna Greenberg?

  Never seen you like this.

• 4:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  stressed. I've never felt like this. I will say, I told you I've like dug a hole I can't seem to dig myself out of.

• 4:27Rayna Greenberg?

  It sounded cute, planning your wedding and your tour and your special all at the same.

• 4:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  I thought I was like such a baddie. And it started fine, but now that we're in the thick of it, like in the final stretch, it feels really overwhelming and insurmountable. And you have helped me so much. I'm just like so grateful for you and especially with vibes and things like that. Like I can't actually do all the things that I need to do with the tour and the special and the wedding and the two companies and my personal life and all the things. And so it has been a lot, but yeah, I was like, you know what? Why not have another date? So I am coming to Minneapolis. I posted this on my story. So if you follow me, you saw it. And there may or may not be tickets left by the time this runs, but I'm

• 5:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  coming there on a Tuesday, October 7th, and doing Acme Comedy Club, which is one of the most renowned clubs in the country. And we never did it. We went right to the Fillmore when we started performing there. So we've never been there and I'm so thrilled to be there and I can't wait to see you guys and I hope you come out on Tuesday. So if there are tickets still available, they will be at ashess.com. And then right after that, I head to New York to film my special on the 11th. Still probably some tickets left for that. And then I have a few tickets left for Philly, which is September 24th this week. As this episode airs, yeah, so I will be in Philly Wednesday and Thursday this week. There are still some tickets available for Wednesday. Thursday is sold out. It's gonna be really fun.

• 5:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  Corey and the girls are coming. I'm really excited. So I know, I wish you were gonna be there. But Philly, I'll see you guys this week. Go Birds. And then Boston, gonna end the tour at the Wilbur. And that's it.

• 6:03Rayna Greenberg?

  It's gonna be so fun. I'm so excited.

• 6:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, as, as we, I'm about to set out this weekend. I will have just gotten back from San Francisco. And then it's just like the final stretch. Like, I can't believe it. I mean, and I, I don't want to complain about being overwhelmed. I will look back on this year and feel really proud of everything that I was able to juggle. And after it's all said and done, and then I'm like, what is life even gonna look like?

• 6:24Rayna Greenberg?

  November 2nd is gonna be crazy.

• 6:28Rayna Greenberg?

  It really is.

• 6:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  I know. And I just, then it's, it's just gonna be manageable. Like, this feels-

• 6:33Rayna Greenberg?

  You're gonna run vibes and I'm gonna do nothing.

• 6:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's gonna sit back. I'm a little worried, actually. I'm a little worried about what happens when I get my time back.

• 6:41Rayna Greenberg?

  I actually am enjoying running vibes without you.

• 6:44Ashley Hesseltine?

  You're crushing it.

• 6:45Rayna Greenberg?

  It's been really fun. We hired a new marketing company and we just, I really enjoy the content that I've been working on with them. And I'm proud of it and it looks beautiful. And I think, I was gonna say a testament to you, but like, you and I are very collaborative on everything. And it's very hard for either one of us to be like, live and let live. And I think that really for the first time since I've been in business with you, I mean, our, our eight year anniversary is coming up. Like, this is the first time you've ever really sat back and been like, hands up, I'm just gonna throw my hands up to God, you do it.

• 7:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, like, Jesus take the wheel, right? And I take the wheel. And we have a great team. And I just, I really do appreciate you, like, beyond words. And you said, you were like, mid voice note the other day. And you said like, the sweetest thing. You were just like, isn't it great how we get along and do this in this way? And, you know, there's been times in the history of our career where I am like-

• 7:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  Doing so much, it feel, you know, we added the snack, like a lot of that fell on me. And Raina is always like, whatever you need, I got it. And there's been times when I like, it does feel like I have more on my plate and you recognize that. And this is a time when you're like, I'm gonna have more on my plate significantly. You've really helped manage both of our workload. I think we divide and conquer really well, but yeah, I've been like, I can't work on vibes. And so we have a great team. It's not Raina single-handedly running this company. It's a, you know, multimillion dollar company and it's successful and we have a lot of different, like moving parts, but the social looks incredible. Everything looks incredible. It's all you. So you have taken some photos, you've gotten back into your photography era.

• 8:18Rayna Greenberg?

  All the photos.

• 8:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  Do all the diary. So check it out, you guys, we dropped these new products. I mean, don't give me any credit if you like it. It's been all Raina, like really so much for the last like month or two. My fiance didn't even really know that. I was like, I haven't been working on vibes. He was like, what? And I was like, Raina's been doing all this and he got like, I don't know. I don't want to say he got emotional, but he was like, wow, that's like really special, what you guys have.

• 8:43Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, thank you. I mean, it's just, it's fun. And I think that if you're in business with somebody long enough, you should hopefully be in business with somebody that you trust to just take the reins. And I think you like to be involved in everything and touch everything. I don't make major decisions without you, but I do like how everything looks and I feel excited about it. We have some new products coming out and you have essentially let me move back to New York. So I don't really live in LA that much anymore.

• 9:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  You're just always gone.

• 9:07Rayna Greenberg?

  Which I appreciate.

• 9:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  Was last week, I think you were like, I'm heading, I'm heading to the airport. I was like, ma'am.

• 9:13Rayna Greenberg?

  So it was Thursday morning and I like woke up and I'd been home for like eight days. And I was talking, I was having my coffee and I was talking to Brittany and I was like, I don't really want to be here this weekend. And she goes, so go to the airport. And I was like, you know, that is a good idea. I will go to the airport.

• 9:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  I was so happy for you, but I was like, so jealous. I was like, you're gonna be going to like some fashion week parties and doing all this stuff and seeing all of our friends and.

• 9:31Rayna Greenberg?

  November 2nd, get your life back.

• 9:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, then I'm gonna go on my like little mini moon.

• 9:35Rayna Greenberg?

  Three days. I'll see you on November 5th.

• 9:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, so we have a really fun episode today. I mean, you really got to hand it to us on our range.

• 9:47Rayna Greenberg?

  Why can't you just give us a compliment?

• 9:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, I mean, and I think people say this as well. And it's just like, you'll have someone like Ingrid Clayton, who we had recently, and that was a much more serious episode. It was about a trauma response. And now we have Alec Flynn. He's a male comedian, and we just cut up and talk about all this stuff. And I don't know, it's just, it's interesting. And we know, we can't please everybody all the time. But hopefully you guys appreciate the range. But like, these two weeks back to back, it makes me laugh.

• 10:12Rayna Greenberg?

  Last week was trauma, and this week it's just men with tote bags.

• 10:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  So I am so excited for you guys to hear his take on the performative male. It's really picking up steam. Trevor Wallace did a TikTok reel about the performative male.

• 10:26Rayna Greenberg?

  It's, I mean, I told you when I was doing research for this episode, I mean, I, it was an overabundance of articles. It's every single person has like, everybody's jumping on this.

• 10:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, including us. So we had crowdsourced with you guys on Instagram a while back, green flags, and like, what, a little more obscure green flags, not just like, he loves his family, you know, which is also a great green flag. That's the top of the list.

• 10:50Rayna Greenberg?

  So yeah, we crowdsourced some green flags, and people took it seriously. We thought maybe that they would talk around, but people took it really serious. And I think people are excited to hype their partners, which I think is cute. A lot of family stuff.

• 11:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 11:01Rayna Greenberg?

  He calls his mom once a week, which I don't need it.

• 11:04Ashley Hesseltine?

  Once a week, I like. Once a day, don't like.

• 11:06Rayna Greenberg?

  Once a week is a good amount.

• 11:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  Totally.

• 11:09Rayna Greenberg?

  Twice a week, sure.

• 11:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes. Every, every day is not for me.

• 11:15Rayna Greenberg?

  Wait, I have a question for you. Do you call your parents, or do they call you?

• 11:19Ashley Hesseltine?

  I can't imagine a world in which my dad ever calls me. But I will, my mom and I, it's reciprocal. We're playing phone tag right now. I'm trying to get a hold of her. You know, she's so busy. She's playing nurse right now. That's what she's doing.

• 11:31Rayna Greenberg?

  To your dad?

• 11:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 11:32Rayna Greenberg?

  Do you want to give an update on your dad?

• 11:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. So I talked about my dad getting his hip replacement. It's still all good. I mean, he is in pain, of course, from a big surgery, but it's not the same pain he was in. It's he felt like immediate relief. Like this is soreness and the way that it should be. And he's obviously managing that. But it's like, not the shooting pain down his leg that he was living with for who knows how, how long. So everything's great. He's like, ready to dance at the wedding.

• 11:59Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, yeah.

• 12:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  Even though the doctor was like, do not fast dance.

• 12:02Rayna Greenberg?

  No, we're gonna be dancing.

• 12:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. So I'm so excited for the hard launch of his hip at the wedding. My mom and I go back and forth. I, I, I, it's probably like 50 50. And then I'll call my dad for stuff like this, like to check in on him. Like my dad and I don't talk like you and your dad talk.

• 12:18Rayna Greenberg?

  But so I asked you, because yesterday my dad goes, I was gonna call, I called him. He said, I was gonna call you today. And I was like, why? And he goes, I was thinking about you. And I was like, this is a one way phone call relationship.

• 12:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, you only call him?

• 12:27Rayna Greenberg?

  I only call him. And I have like, I talked to him probably twice a week. We talked for a long time. I come during my walks. We'll talk for like 40 minutes. He, my dad just like wants a whole business meeting roundup on like every one of our advertisers, how vibes is doing everything. I don't think he's ever called me. Really?

• 12:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  I did not know this.

• 12:43Rayna Greenberg?

  If I see his name pop up on my phone, I'm worried.

• 12:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 12:46Rayna Greenberg?

  That somebody died.

• 12:47Ashley Hesseltine?

  Totally. I did not know that.

• 12:50Rayna Greenberg?

  I call him exclusively. My sister in law calls me.

• 12:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  Chasing him.

• 12:52Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 12:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's hard to get.

• 12:54Rayna Greenberg?

  I like unavailable men.

• 12:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, no.

• 12:57Rayna Greenberg?

  It's all coming out.

• 12:59Ashley Hesseltine?

  My mom used to call me more. And I think she just started to kind of maybe get a little frustrated that I was unavailable a lot. We were just busy. And so I think she leaves it up to me. And I think sometimes she'll hit me with a text, like, hey, can you talk? I think just over the years, when I was in my twenties, I probably talked to my mom every day, probably multiple times a day. I mean, I feel like I was that meme of like, Mom, I have to make a dentist appointment. What do I do? Like, we talked every day. And I really appreciate how she's let me grow. And I think she misses me sometimes. And you just, as your kids grow up and become more independent, they don't need you as much. And we've had conversations about it over the years. And I think she is certainly happy with our relationship. And I want to make time for her and prioritize talking to her and things like that. But it's certainly less, for me, it was

• 13:43Ashley Hesseltine?

  every day in my twenties. And it's like, less in your thirties and even less now. And now I have my own family. Just kidding.

• 13:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  But no, I just, I'm trying to, I've been trying to get ahold of her.

• 13:57Rayna Greenberg?

  I paid time to my nephew this morning. He's like standing up and like, it's just so cute. He's mimicking sounds. I don't know if you remember this, but he like, he's not saying words, but like,

• 14:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  he's getting there.

• 14:06Rayna Greenberg?

  My brother says like Rayna and he'll say like, he'll like sound out like Nana.

• 14:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, he's trying.

• 14:11Rayna Greenberg?

  That's cute. Love him so much. All right. Well, we can move on. But yeah, a lot of people brought up

• 14:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, yeah. What were we even doing?

• 14:16Rayna Greenberg?

  Green flags. And I mean, obviously stuff about how people treat their family was really, really paramount. And how they treat their friends, animals, how they treat animals.

• 14:24Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, my God.

• 14:25Rayna Greenberg?

  Came up like over and over and over and over again. Animals was, animals was probably over above family.

• 14:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's very telling. You should treat animals better than your family. Like you could have family trauma. You, there's a backstory with your family. You know what I mean? Like if, if someone's like, they don't really get along with their parents, or he doesn't really get along with his siblings or whatever. Like, there's a story there. I mean, it could be a red flag, but you're, you just don't know. Animals have done nothing to you. So if you treat them poorly, I mean, that's just jail.

• 14:55Rayna Greenberg?

  It's so weird to me when a man, like when a man just says, I just don't like animals. I've met two ever, and one of them is just the most terrible. And one of them is pretty great, but it doesn't surprise me. Like, it's a guy that I like hooked up with and he was like, I'm just not, he didn't say like, I'm not a big animal person. That's fine with me. If somebody's like, I like other people's pets. I don't need one in my home. But like somebody, a man just flat out, I just don't like animals. That's insane to me.

• 15:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  I know. It's funny. My fiance asked me the other day, what, what if I didn't love Azul like this? And I was like, I can't picture it. Like, I haven't experienced that with a partner. I mean, with my ex was obsessed with Dewey. They had their own relationship, you know? And the way that he is with Azul, I mean, he couldn't love him anymore. I, it would be tough if, because there's a world in which they like them and they'll take care of them and step in, but they don't like adore them and think of them as their own and dote on them. And I, it's just, sometimes I feel like he like loves him more than me. Like, if we're cooking dinner, he's like, did you set aside a shrimp for Azul?

• 16:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  I forgot to set aside the shrimp. Like, he makes me feel bad.

• 16:12Ashley Hesseltine?

  Like he's like, did you schedule into his outfit? Like he has bought him so many bandanas. He really feels like a better parent sometimes. I'm like, just relax. I've had him for so many years before you even came along. I'm a good mom.

• 16:23Rayna Greenberg?

  He survived before you.

• 16:24Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, but I, it would be tough. If they were like indifferent.

• 16:28Rayna Greenberg?

  A lot of people like they clean up my dogs, like poop for me. You know what came up and I thought like was really cute was he always wants to go on a walk with me when I walk the dog. And a friend of ours who recently split from their partner said to me like, I walk the dog every night and he never wants to come with me. And I was like, I really like, I don't know. It made me like, feel kind of emotional that like, that is like, I think about like building intimacy with your partner and like, like foreplay a little bit. And like, how nice is it at the end of the day, somebody comes home and is like, I would love to walk the dog with you. It sounds simple, but like, this is an errand I have to do for us. I'd like you to come with me and it will turn me on.

• 17:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, I have so much to say. We, in the summer, when it was still light out after dinner and we were doing walks, I mean, it was just so lovely to be in the park with the dog after dinner. Like I, it would be so weird for me to do that alone. And dividing up responsibilities with the pet is huge too. Like for me, like this is my dog. He was here before you came along, but the way that we operate now and the way that I would hope any woman would operate with her partner would be like, it's our dog now. And we share responsibilities. I'm still covering the big medical costs, which I feel like is fair.

• 17:34Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 17:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  But like the walking and stuff, like it's 50 50 or it ebbs and flows, depends on our schedules and things like that. And obviously he's watched him this whole time when I've been on tour and he's not with me. Like I, I remember one couple I knew and we were at their apartment and we were going to head out for the night. And I remember him saying, as we walked out, like, don't forget to walk the dog when you get home. And my jaw dropped.

• 17:59Rayna Greenberg?

  What?

• 18:02Ashley Hesseltine?

  And I was like, you're staying in, like, we're going out. We're like.

• 18:05Rayna Greenberg?

  Are his legs broken, both of them?

• 18:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  I couldn't believe what I was hearing. I was like, that is crazy. Like, wouldn't you want to make her life a little easier? Like we, it was, we were like with some out of town friends. Like it wasn't like a. Eh, every night we're going out and getting wasted and he's annoyed about that. It was just like a kind of a special night for the girls. And he was like, yeah, don't forget when you go out.

• 18:26Rayna Greenberg?

  That's crazy.

• 18:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  I was like, what the fuck am I hearing?

• 18:29Rayna Greenberg?

  I just, I do think that people just act better as they get older and a little less selfish. And like, they're just a little more like, I would hope like valuable and you act better. And the consequences of not acting nice are, are larger because you could really lose somebody who you see as a long-term partner. And I think when we were younger, we're just kind of assholes. But an adult behaving like that is so weird to me. What are you doing?

• 18:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  I mean, a guy that is going to wake up and walk your dog when you may not want to, because you're hungover, it's raining, various reasons, he does that for you. Huge green flag, waving a bright green flag. It's so nice. I even think of guys I've dated in the past. Like I think of one guy I dated briefly and I remember one morning and we woke up and we'd been out the night before drinking and it was raining and he was like, I'll take Dewey out. I was like, and I'm gonna blow you when you get back?

• 19:18Rayna Greenberg?

  A lot of acts of service came up. And I think that like, it should just be standard, that like, if your partner gets up in the morning before you, they should make you a coffee. Like, it should be standard that if you have like a busy day, they make the bed. Like, I do think these are green flags and it's great, but like, having somebody like share the workload at home with you and doing like little acts of service should be the standard, not just.

• 19:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  Totally.

• 19:41Rayna Greenberg?

  You know?

• 19:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, should we do ours and then read our listeners?

• 19:44Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 19:44Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. So, number one has a sister.

• 19:48Rayna Greenberg?

  We both just forever always think that.

• 19:50Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, so it came up too. So, has a sister. And nothing too much of a hot take, I mean cooks. I don't want a guy that doesn't cook.

• 19:59Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's not, a lot of people don't care. I have just grown up with men who cook. My dad, my brother, like, it's not that I need you to cook for me. I also cook a lot. I've cooked every night this week. I just want you to want to do it. I like it.

• 20:11Rayna Greenberg?

  It's just food's something I really share with my partner and it. I can't imagine being with somebody. So to me, like people that don't cook don't tend to care about food that much. Right? Like if you're just like, I like the same thing every night. It's like, I'm not, that doesn't sound fun to me. I want somebody like in the kitchen with me. And yeah, cooking is important to me.

• 20:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, I love to cook together. I mean, there's some people that are super foodies that don't cook. I mean, they go out every night. I can't imagine it. My body would just, I wouldn't survive it. But that's, you know, people do that too. Okay. And grills falls in. You gotta learn, you gotta be able to work a grill. Get out of here.

• 20:43Rayna Greenberg?

  If that's the only thing you can do, I'm fine with that.

• 20:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. If you could just light the grill, just put a steak on it. Okay. Not that into porn?

• 20:50Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, okay.

• 20:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  I just don't want to.

• 20:54Rayna Greenberg?

  You can't be into porn. It can't be like a personality trait.

• 20:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  Not that into porn. Okay.

• 20:58Rayna Greenberg?

  My brother said to me the other day about friend, he was like, big porn guy.

• 21:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

• 21:03Rayna Greenberg?

  My brother and his wife were both like, yeah, he's a big porn guy.

• 21:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  Beer drinker. And yes, you can be a full blown sloppy drunk on beer alone, but I, my fiance sticks to pretty much beer. And I like it. We don't get that drunk.

• 21:18Rayna Greenberg?

  I love it. He drives me around all the time.

• 21:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, like, I kind of like it. I don't know. I've, we've just gotten into a relationship where we just, we drink moderately. And I don't want to see him all drunk. And I probably vice versa. So you, a guy that's like real whiskey drunk. Or he's just got wine teeth all the time.

• 21:38Ashley Hesseltine?

  We were at a wedding with a couple that has since broken up, a celeb couple, if you will. And we were observing them for the wedding and he was so wasted. He cleaned up his act after that. But we observed him at this wedding and he was walking around with, I don't know, a fucking big gulp of red wine. Trying to find the bathroom. He was in the kitchen. He was stumbling around, yelling at his girlfriend, just purple mouth.

• 22:04Ashley Hesseltine?

  Like, I don't want it. Like, you guys know that guy. You guys know that guy that will.

• 22:08Rayna Greenberg?

  You actually do know.

• 22:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  You do know. That will drink whatever. He's just down, he just wants to get fucked up.

• 22:14Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, that's also like an age thing to me. Like I, at, at this age, people who get like really drunk, I see you like that one time. If I see you like that one time, it's a big red flag for me. Two times, I, we have a problem.

• 22:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes. And this is completely age. In my twenties, I was drunk. He was drunk. Even into my thirties. Like we were wasted all the time.

• 22:33Rayna Greenberg?

  And I'm not judging people that want to do that for fun. And obviously people have real problems that they need to get help for. Don't get help. I don't know. That's your life. But it's, it's not for me. I'm not going to date those people.

• 22:43Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. My final one. I feel like this is my hottest take. Listens to women musical artists.

• 22:50Rayna Greenberg?

  Like your brother.

• 22:51Ashley Hesseltine?

  And likes them.

• 22:52Rayna Greenberg?

  Your brother, he loves a ballad from a strong female artist.

• 22:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  My brother loves Rihanna.

• 22:58Rayna Greenberg?

  Stay came on by Rihanna and your brother was like humming the tune and he was like, I love a strong female artist.

• 23:04Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes, we were Big Fish Grill.

• 23:05Rayna Greenberg?

  Ballad from a strong female artist.

• 23:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  We were in that back booth at Big Fish Grill. You had ordered a Coke heavy, I think.

• 23:12Rayna Greenberg?

  I think about it all the time.

• 23:15Ashley Hesseltine?

  He ordered a Captain and Coke that day. That's what the Coke I'm remembering. He ordered a Captain and Coke. I was like, I fucking love Rihanna.

• 23:21Rayna Greenberg?

  Like if you're new, Ashley's brother is like a six foot seven, six foot eight football player. He's, I love a ballad from a strong female artist. I just, I love your brother so much.

• 23:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  I just think there's a lot of guys out there that wouldn't really admit to liking. If you're my fiance, Lana Del Rey loves Lana Del Rey. He's in his Lana Del Rey era. I come home, he's playing Summertime Sadness. Like he loves Lana Del Rey. Like I remember when he's, he's not like a huge Beyonce fan, but he has a ton of respect for her. And I remember the time he said Lemonade was a no skips album. I was like, take your pants off.

• 23:54Rayna Greenberg?

  I remember when he said there was no skips.

• 23:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes, because I was in the group chat and we were going to Beyonce and I was like, he just said this, you guys are going to die. I remember where we were. We were in Seaport in Boston. And just to really be like, in his top five or 10 artists are some women. And you, you might not see this. I mean, I don't, I don't think guys that leaned a little more misogynist or could admit to liking women's music.

• 24:16Rayna Greenberg?

  My ex, who's the most masculine person I've ever met, he loves Taylor Swift. Went to the era's tour.

• 24:21Ashley Hesseltine?

  Hot.

• 24:21Rayna Greenberg?

  Cannot get enough of it.

• 24:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  So hot.

• 24:24Rayna Greenberg?

  Mentioned Sabrina Carpenter to me the other day.

• 24:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's what I'm saying. This is so hot.

• 24:30Rayna Greenberg?

  You look at him and you're like, he looks like he lives in prison.

• 24:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes.

• 24:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  So I don't know. I just like it. I mean, I'm trying to think of the alternative of a guy like what he would even be listening to. Or honestly, a guy that's not, not that into music is a huge red flag and I would never. Some people aren't that into music.

• 24:46Rayna Greenberg?

  As I've gotten older, I just, I love live music so much. It wasn't like a thing for me in my twenties, but I think that's because also I just didn't have money.

• 24:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 24:52Rayna Greenberg?

  Like, what was I going to?

• 24:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  Right, exactly.

• 24:54Rayna Greenberg?

  I don't like music. I don't like music. I don't like pets. It's not for me.

• 24:59Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, I, that guy that like I dated that had all the stuffed animals, um, he was not that into music. But what he chose to play in his car was like house. I'm like, if you're not that into it, can I take control of the ox? This is a nightmare.

• 25:15Rayna Greenberg?

  I like people that remember small details, especially names of people that you've brought up and just, I know that not everybody has a good memory. Like I don't always have the best memory, but like when you have told a story about like a person and there's small details and they like recall it like a month later. I'm just like, you really like clocked this and like it was important to you.

• 25:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 25:34Rayna Greenberg?

  Very small details like mattered to me.

• 25:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, what else?

• 25:37Rayna Greenberg?

  Just coming home to gifts for no reason. I just, I thought of you, even like, I just, I thought the snack was nice for you or like Uber Eatsing you lunch to your office or something. Just like really small and expensive. Just I thought of you for no reason type of things. Remember is my food order. So I want somebody to remember, like, how do I take my coffee? What do I like on a sandwich? Like if you give me a sandwich and there's like peppers or onions on it and they're like, just take it off. I, we're getting a divorce. I want you to know what I like on my pizza, what my Chinese food order is. Like just remember all that stuff.

• 26:02Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, it's so, so hot.

• 26:04Rayna Greenberg?

  Always wants to split food. You have to split food with me.

• 26:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 26:06Rayna Greenberg?

  Can you imagine?

• 26:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  I love what your food related ones.

• 26:08Rayna Greenberg?

  Everything is food related. Yes.

• 26:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, this one really hits different. I feel this so deeply, not feeling rushed around them.

• 26:15Rayna Greenberg?

  I think you would like that.

• 26:18Rayna Greenberg?

  I was like rushed, can't relate because I'm on time. I'm ready. I'm never rushed.

• 26:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  And I, I mean, I've always working on it and getting better, but I noticed this really early on with my fiance that like, I was gonna make us a little late for like a dinner reservation he made and he never once, he would call the restaurant or running behind. Like he never, this wasn't all the time, but those few moments where I felt this tense, like he's gonna have at least an annoyed energy around him. He didn't. He was always like so chill.

• 26:46Rayna Greenberg?

  You need that.

• 26:47Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 26:47Rayna Greenberg?

  I have an annoyed energy about it. Somebody is more than 10 minutes late. I have a pissed off energy.

• 26:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, that is, it's, yeah, I don't, I don't like that. I mean, especially like, I try my best, like to keep someone waiting at a restaurant for 10 minutes is, is brutal. Okay.

• 27:01Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, you, you definitely need somebody like that. Doesn't speak poorly about their exes. I just always think that's like a good green flag, but anybody that tells you all their exes are crazy or narcissist or whatever, just run away, run. Doesn't make a big thing about helping people. They just do it and they move on. They don't need to like tell you that they did this whole thing or like let everyone know. I like that.

• 27:19Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes, like they don't, they're not performatively doing good deeds so they can brag about them.

• 27:23Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, like if you see a man yelling at his girlfriend in the parking lot, put him in a headlock, put him asleep, just go on with your day. You don't need to tell anybody about it.

• 27:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, like helping old ladies, like stuff like that.

• 27:32Rayna Greenberg?

  Reading came up so much.

• 27:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  Reading, I mean, number one guy hobby. This is really cute, but like if you were to watch it happen, you'd be like, oh, a little weird. Takes off my jewelry for me when I fall asleep with it on, like.

• 27:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  If I woke up and he was in my ears.

• 27:49Rayna Greenberg?

  Trying to get my lobster claw off of my.

• 27:51Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, he's like trying to get my necklace off. I'd be like, what the fuck? I actually tell, that is cute for you guys, but I don't want to be awoken to him like on my neck, taking my jewelry off.

• 28:06Rayna Greenberg?

  Like I understand the sentiment of it, but I do think like, also, how passed out am I that you are fiddling with a clasp and it doesn't wake me up?

• 28:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  Also, like, I know he's gonna fumble, you know, and then I get the ick.

• 28:17Rayna Greenberg?

  Can you imagine a man taking a necklace off?

• 28:19Ashley Hesseltine?

  The audacity of him to touch my jewelry on my body and then also fuck it up.

• 28:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's also, what if he, what if your fingers had swollen and he's trying to pull your rings off? You're like, now this, I'm embarrassed.

• 28:32Rayna Greenberg?

  That's explaining my salt intake.

• 28:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  I've been woken up and I'm embarrassed.

• 28:37Rayna Greenberg?

  You could take my shoes off, but just leave my jewelry alone.

• 28:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  I'll deal with the consequences.

• 28:41Rayna Greenberg?

  Shoes off at 40 years old.

• 28:47Ashley Hesseltine?

  You know, he always takes my jeans off when I blackout and pass out, which also I think is cute for my 25 year old self.

• 28:54Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, it's cute in your twenties. Like, how fucked up am I in my 40s?

• 28:59Ashley Hesseltine?

  If the jewelry girl can send some footage from the bedroom, I want to see this happening. And is he hunched over her? Like, I'm just picturing him like just so.

• 29:08Rayna Greenberg?

  Is it just like a big watch?

• 29:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 29:10Rayna Greenberg?

  A big, a big watch is easy to take. A necklace and earrings is weird. Bracelets.

• 29:19Ashley Hesseltine?

  He's like unscrewing your Cartier bracelet. He's like, I'm just gonna get this off.

• 29:22Rayna Greenberg?

  Gets out the screwdriver.

• 29:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, he takes the pliers on my permanent jewelry. He's like, I just figured you'd want this off. Like, am I being robbed? You wake up, you're being robbed. You're like, am I Kim Kardashian in Paris?

• 29:38Ashley Hesseltine?

  All right, the watch I can see, a big fat watch, just, you know, you don't want it to be all up in your sleep. That's cute, but the other stuff is, you know what, to each their own.

• 29:46Rayna Greenberg?

  He doesn't want to look at you with that watch thing. All right, we can go through, do like a couple. No set of fixed stuff, vacuums, has more than five things in the fridge. Low post count on Instagram and doesn't follow a bunch of Instagram models.

• 29:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, all this stuff. I mean, as it was coming up, I mean, again, I think I chose an incredible partner. I'm marrying him, but these things really spoke to me because they came up as we started to date and we were long distance. And so I was clocking them in subconsciously or consciously, like the vacuuming thing, like him cleaning up his apartment and knowing these things and he was cooking. And when I first went to his apartment, like seeing that he had what someone said, more than five items in the fridge, like all this stuff, I think we're all always clocking it.

• 30:31Rayna Greenberg?

  Do you feel like, I'm not in my twenties anymore, or my thirties, obviously. Are men getting better because the information that women have now given them on TikTok? Like, I feel like in our twenties, like I don't know if men knew that they had to have more than five things in their fridge, or if like they, all these little things to me now, like it used to be like a hot take that they should do all these things, like walk on the outside when you're walking down the street. Like, I wonder if people are getting better.

• 30:58Ashley Hesseltine?

  I think people are getting better and worse. I think the disparity is growing in every which way.

• 31:03Rayna Greenberg?

  But at least they have the information. So if they're not doing it, it is a real rejection of what somebody actually knows they should be doing.

• 31:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, exactly. Like you should be knowing this stuff.

• 31:14Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 31:15Ashley Hesseltine?

  But again, like we cannot bring up age enough, like a guy in his twenties, like I don't expect him to have a full fridge. I did it. I don't want to ask stuff of a partner or potential partner that I'm not doing myself. You know, I want to. Be the partner I'm looking for. So again, when we talk about the drinking or the cooking and stuff like that, like again, this just doesn't really apply in my twenties. It was just kind of like, I don't know, does he treat me? Okay. Does he like to get fucked up?

• 31:42Rayna Greenberg?

  Is he six one? Yeah. Do we have the same drinking habits?

• 31:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. So, okay. Well, we really like that you guys submitted these and shared with us.

• 31:50Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 31:50Ashley Hesseltine?

  As always.

• 31:52Rayna Greenberg?

  All right. There's a great episode ahead for you guys. I'm so excited, but we'll just thank a few of our partners and then we'll get right into it.

• 31:59Ashley Hesseltine?

  I'm telling you guys about function. So we went hard on function on the snack on Thursday. You guys can listen back. We just are such fans of this and everything that they do. And we have chosen to use this. We've set up our appointments. We're excited to go and see all of the information about our health and all the data. And we really do believe in it. So this is a platform you guys are going to use. And inside function, you get access to test over 100 plus biomarkers from your hormones to heart health, inflammation and stress, allergy sensitivities, sexual health, cancer detection, all these things. And for an additional fee, you can also access MRI and CT scans. It's all going to be tracked in one secure place. So you're going to go to a quest diagnostics and do the blood work

• 32:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  and they will take it from there. We also talked about how they will tell you your biological age. So based on different factors like stress, of course, for one, and really like how your, how your body, how old it actually is. And I always joke, that's your age now and put that on your dating profiles and share it with the world. And we've talked about this before, especially as you get older, you're kind of like, is something wrong with me? Or is that just being alive? Is that just aging? And, you know, I think we all have a tendency to procrastinate on certain things. And, I mean, when I was younger, I was just like, yeah, I'm not, this will have to fix itself, you know? And I think as I've gotten older, I really want to know what's going on in my body. I want to feel my best. I mean, there's certain foods I eat and I'm like, I don't feel great after that. You know, I obviously have some sort of sensitivity and I think we all just want to be the healthiest

• 33:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  we can be. And tracking these biomarkers gives you a personal map for protecting your health, system by system, decade after decade. Of course, they work with doctors and they're just going to help you on your journey to figuring out how you can really live your best, healthiest life. So you guys can learn more and join using our link. Function is a near 360 view to see what's happening in your body and our First, 1,000 listeners that sign up get a $100 credit toward their membership. You can visit functionhealth.com/gge or use gift code GGE100 at signup to own your health.

• 34:00Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, and fall is upon us. Time to update the wardrobe. Quince is the best place to do it. They literally have everything. They have shoes, they have bags, they have accessories, all the clothing that you need for the fall. The prices literally couldn't be better. It looks and feels luxury at a price that you can't even believe this stuff costs. I get shoes there. I have these water repellent suede clog mules, which I'm obsessed with. They're great for the fall. They have Mongolian cashmere sweaters that are button downs, V-necks, they have cardigans, all kinds of things like that that I love. They're just a good staple. I bought a couple of bags from there recently. I actually bought this bag. It's the Revive Nylon Crescent Shoulder Bag. Comes in three colors. It's under $30. I've been using it every day to like run errands. So pricing is great.

• 34:45Rayna Greenberg?

  And Quince only partners with top-tier ethical factories to cut out the middleman so they can deliver you luxury quality pieces at truly half the price. But it's stylish. Like that's what is really important to me and there's so much variety.

• 34:58Ashley Hesseltine?

  Classy.

• 34:59Rayna Greenberg?

  So find your classy fall staples at quince.com. Go to quince.com/gge for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com/gge to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com/gge.

• 35:16Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, and Nutriful. As you guys know, I've been on a hair journey. I am in the midst of a hair renaissance and I feel like I'm finally getting there because I have figured out through Nutriful and other things like keeping my hair moisturized and not breaking. But when it really, I feel like I'm so close to getting to where it used to be and then it's over for you bitches. So I really lean on Nutriful. I take my four capsules of my women's formula every single day. And this has just helped with hair thinning, shedding. I've seen improved hair growth and visible thickness. And just, I think you notice when you're taking a shower and you are washing your hair, like how much hair is on the shower wall. And that's when I noticed it the most in So Nutriful. I feel like I have not, not seen it hardly at all anymore. I've just noticed such a difference.

• 36:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  But this has really been something that has been part of my daily routine for quite a while now. And it is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand trusted by over one and a half million people. And they are really going to target the root cause of what you have going on because everyone has different reasons why they, their hair may be changing. There are different formulas, the women's, the women's vegan, the women's balance and the postpartum. And I've just noticed it in my nails too. I cannot believe how strong my nails are. I can't believe it. I can't believe these are my nails. They look fake. They don't break. They grow like crazy. So it's, you know, obviously a hair supplement, but I have seen that in my nails as well. And you can check the ingredients.

• 36:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  When you're getting an array of vitamins. And so I just love taking it and I'm never gonna stop. So you guys can check it out. You can see thicker, stronger, faster growing hair with less shedding in just three to six months with Nutriful. For a limited time, Nutriful is offering our listeners $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping when you go to nutrafol.com and enter the promo code GGE10. Find out why Nutriful is the best selling hair growth supplement brand at nutrafol.com, spelled N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L dot com promo code GGE10. That's nutrafol.com promo code GGE10. And let's get into it.

• 37:11Rayna Greenberg?

  All right, guys, we are really excited to welcome our guest today. He is an LA-based comedian. He is so funny. He is, I would say the most beautiful eyes we've had on this podcast.

• 37:20Speaker 00

  Get out of here.

• 37:21Rayna Greenberg?

  No, no, no, it's not your turn yet. But ladies, he is not single. I'm so sorry.

• 37:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  I thought he was when I booked it.

• 37:27Rayna Greenberg?

  I know, we've been talking about this.

• 37:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  And I apologize.

• 37:29Rayna Greenberg?

  To our audience. Honestly, you guys are about to get so horny, but keep your pussies in your pants, ladies. He is also the host of Big Al's Grill ASMR. Please welcome to the show Alec Flynn.

• 37:40Speaker 00

  Yes. Wow. What a, that's a sweet intro. Thank you so much.

• 37:44Ashley Hesseltine?

  Not for your girlfriend so much.

• 37:45Speaker 00

  Hey, you, you heard her. Keep them in the pants.

• 37:48Rayna Greenberg?

  No, we're fans of her.

• 37:49Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, we love her.

• 37:50Speaker 00

  She's the best. Shout out, bitch.

• 37:55Ashley Hesseltine?

  We didn't know we were and then we were like, who is she? And then it was like, wait, I love her TikTok.

• 37:59Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah. We thought you were gonna get like so much ass from this podcast.

• 38:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  Which, which now we know that's not why you wanted to come on.

• 38:07Speaker 00

  I wanted to come on because I love hanging out.

• 38:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  To promote your tour. Oh, okay.

• 38:12Speaker 00

  And I want to promote the tour.

• 38:14Rayna Greenberg?

  Talk about your leg tattoos.

• 38:15Speaker 00

  I just wanted to talk about the leg tattoos. This is Lewis and Clark. I don't know which one's which, but um.

• 38:21Rayna Greenberg?

  No, I'm glad this came up because I am recently like very sexually attracted to leg tattoos. Like the more, like full leg sleeves, I'm very.

• 38:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 38:30Rayna Greenberg?

  Like recently I've met somebody who has two full leg sleeve tattoos and I just, I'm really into it.

• 38:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  My fiance has a lot of leg tattoos. I love them. I don't know if the sleeves are for me and I don't know if two full calves.

• 38:42Rayna Greenberg?

  I'm into it.

• 38:43Speaker 00

  Calves is when you start getting into dangerous territory because you have to break the ice with a single calf tattoo.

• 38:49Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, right.

• 38:50Speaker 00

  And the calf tattoo on its own can look real bad.

• 38:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  So I hooked up with this guy once and I didn't see his calf tattoos till he was leaving my apartment.

• 38:59Rayna Greenberg?

  Was it the back or the sign?

• 39:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  Both backs.

• 39:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 39:02Ashley Hesseltine?

  And he, but let me tell you what they were.

• 39:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  They were two Baltimore mascots.

• 39:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 39:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  Had an Oriole.

• 39:13Speaker 00

  And a Raven.

• 39:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  And a Raven. Yes. I was like, wait, I just blacked out. Yeah. See, the Oriole and the Raven.

• 39:18Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, would you rather the knees or the back of the calves?

• 39:21Speaker 00

  Ooh, knees.

• 39:23Rayna Greenberg?

  I'm into knees. I'm into.

• 39:24Speaker 00

  I got a knee spot right here.

• 39:25Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, I know.

• 39:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  And you did, you did a circle like for the kneecap.

• 39:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, I was like, you gotta just go for it at this point.

• 39:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  A little on the nose, but.

• 39:33Speaker 00

  I got this little Mexican fella hanging out right here. Viva La Raza. You know me. Fuck ice.

• 39:37Ashley Hesseltine?

  Did you get it in Mexico?

• 39:39Speaker 00

  No, I got it in LA during the protests.

• 39:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, you did?

• 39:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, I was just like, well, I used to teach in Denver. So like all my students were like first gen, like Mexican American.

• 39:47Rayna Greenberg?

  What did you teach?

• 39:48Speaker 00

  English.

• 39:49Rayna Greenberg?

  That's so cute.

• 39:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, freshman English. Let me tell you.

• 39:52Rayna Greenberg?

  Were you a teacher before you were a comedian?

• 39:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, oh yeah. I became, I was a teacher for like a year.

• 39:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  Ladies, again, just keep. Everyone relax. He's liberal too.

• 40:00Rayna Greenberg?

  Wait till you find out what he pitched us as topics today.

• 40:04Speaker 00

  I want you to know that I can feel the liquids coming on the screen. Everyone relax.

• 40:10Ashley Hesseltine?

  Stop jerking off, ladies.

• 40:12Speaker 00

  Stop jerking off.

• 40:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, so you're a liberal guy and you're...

• 40:16Speaker 00

  I don't even want liberal. I'd say like I'm borderline ready to blow up a pipeline at this point.

• 40:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, okay. So, far left.

• 40:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 40:24Ashley Hesseltine?

  But you're...

• 40:24Speaker 00

  Borderline anarchist.

• 40:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  But you're open, you're open about it and you know, a lot of comedians aren't, a lot of men aren't. And you're not over the top. I think you're, in terms of what you post, I don't find it to be super inflammatory. You're just like, this shit is crazy. What the fuck is going on? And you're like on the right side of history.

• 40:44Speaker 00

  I just think as a white guy and growing up as a white guy, it is very easy to just kind of rest on our laurels and just say like, hey, not my problem.

• 40:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  Right.

• 40:53Speaker 00

  Not my issue. But you know, I grew up like middle class. Like a lot of my friends grew up middle class Boston and it's... You know, when you see soldiers going into cities, when you see ICE going into neighborhoods, it's just... You gotta like, I'm a big reader. I like reading history. It's like, this is how it starts.

• 41:10Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 41:11Speaker 00

  I just think that we are in a moment right now where if we are not careful and we do not say anything, our future will be mortgaged away from us.

• 41:19Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's like, you have a voice and you use it. We all do, you know, and so we just respect that about you.

• 41:25Speaker 00

  I appreciate that. Thanks, Ashley. But I mean, I'm also not an activist. I wanna just, I'm a comedian first and foremost. But I think, you know, part of the thing is something that's, if it's on your mind and it's something you think about all the time, which I don't know how it's not, people aren't thinking about this administration, thinking about the direction this country's going in all the time. I have to talk about it on stage and I wanna do it in a way that's fun. Like I do a joke now where I talk about how Dr. Phil goes on the ICE raids. You guys have seen these videos?

• 41:55Ashley Hesseltine?

  Adam Ray or Dr. Phil?

• 41:56Speaker 00

  No, the real Dr. Phil.

• 41:57Rayna Greenberg?

  Somebody else signed up to be...

• 41:58Speaker 00

  It's Adam Ray.

• 41:59Ashley Hesseltine?

  Wait, what other actor signed up to be an ICE agent?

• 42:02Speaker 00

  It's the former guy...

• 42:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  Superman.

• 42:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, the former Superman.

• 42:04Ashley Hesseltine?

  Dean Cain.

• 42:05Speaker 00

  But yeah, Dr. Phil's on the ICE raids. I've been watching the videos where Dr. Phil pops out, "We're going to detain you now." He goes, "Okay." And he goes, this guy just goes, "You're Dr. Phil." How do you know that? He goes, "I grew up in Temecula, dude."

• 42:19Rayna Greenberg?

  I have eyes?

• 42:20Speaker 00

  "I grew up here. I don't know what you mean."

• 42:22Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, so this feels like a good way. We want to talk about performative male behavior today, and you pitched us some-

• 42:28Speaker 00

  You tricked me.

• 42:30Rayna Greenberg?

  You pitched us some great articles- Alec, where's your tote bag? Yeah.

• 42:33Speaker 00

  I do it. It's in my car. We gotta talk about the performative male. I have a tote. Listen, I got a tote. I got like tattoos. I may or may not read some Joan Didion here and there, but I gotta say this right now. God forbid a man create an inner life for himself. Literally, God forbid a man develop confidence and a sense of style, and then women are like, "Mmm, trying too hard." Every guy I know wears a golf polo and hits me sometimes.

• 43:03Speaker 00

  God forbid. Literally, God forbid.

• 43:06Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, so I want to respond to that. I have something to say about it. I'm afraid of rebuttal. No, I think that the whole thing about performative- Do you want to talk a little bit- -male behavior, like, I want to talk about what like- What it is? This has got, this has like exploded. There's so many articles about this right now, and it's all about men that have like tote bags and labubus and wear shirts that say like, "The future is female." Can we leave labubus out of this? Labubus are in all of it.

• 43:30Speaker 00

  Ah, labubus, we need to catch us straight right now.

• 43:32Rayna Greenberg?

  No, labubus are in it. And men that read like feminist books in public and drink matcha. And I think the overriding, the overwhelming question for people is, you know, women have been saying for so long, "We want men to like get in touch with their feelings and actually understand what we're going through."

• 43:46Speaker 00

  Right.

• 43:47Rayna Greenberg?

  Is this genuine, or is this toxic masculinity dressed up in a different costume? And I, Ash and I both, we don't want to shit on this because we really want men to listen to what women have been saying and actually have it not be performative.

• 44:01Speaker 00

  Right. I think it goes both ways. What I find is the common thread is like, the toxic masculinity thing, that is the bottom layer of just men, of some men in general. Like, you're just gonna find out whether like it's a guy that, you know, likes to golf, or it's a guy that's, you know, writing a thesis on like why the labia is underlooked in the grand scheme of the mons pubis. Whatever he's doing.

• 44:24Rayna Greenberg?

  Actually, clitorises are.

• 44:26Speaker 00

  I, please, let me finish.

• 44:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  Hey, shut up bitch. He was like, I was speaking. We'll get back to you on your podcast, okay? Did I say you could start talking?

• 44:37Speaker 00

  I'm gonna take my hand on the grill.

• 44:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's the ASMR we're looking for. He just chokes me on the show.

• 44:44Speaker 00

  I think it's, uh, I think that's just like, women are, maybe they get more excited about like a guy that it seems as though he's in touch with his feelings. When in reality, like, they might just then like, end up cheating or like, you know, fucking them over, but like a guy who also golfs and like, does fantasy football, again, I'm just using broad stereotypes. I think it's just when women get hurt, it's easy to look back and be like, this fuck boy who doesn't have a, a, a bed frame and like, you know, listens to Claro. Like, yeah, of course he hurt me. It's like, because that they all do, they're performing. It's like, I don't know, I, I just, I look at most guys who are, you know, maybe they got a tote bag here and there. Okay.

• 45:25Speaker 00

  Maybe, maybe they want to go to a Snail Mail concert, shout out Snail Mail. They are, uh, kind of just branching out on their own in general. Like, I just let them branch out, let them discover a little bit about themselves.

• 45:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, a hundred percent. And I, I think if it truly is a disguise and you truly are like, this, the future is female shirt is gonna get me pussy. You're the worst, you know, like, I'd rather have a guy who's open about who he is than that, but I don't love the, the criticism. I think it's just like, do this, no, don't do this too much. Oh, you've ever cracked it up, back it up, that's not good enough. So I think it's just, we do know, one guy in particular, and he's really the archetype of this, where it's like, the tote bags and the protests and all the things. And the therapy speak. But he's like, he really is like, hurt so many women, woman after woman, cheating, lying, all this and so. But it's weird, because I do know that he still believes in women's rights and minorities' rights and all those things, but it's like,

• 46:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  this, there's this other side of like, you're not the person you. Claim to be.

• 46:26Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, I think he also does the like, and it's the same archetype. The women say like, men, they're using therapy speak on us now. There's a lot of TikTok advice that they've like taken and like weaponized against us, but I do, I don't want to like shit on men that are

• 46:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  Not at all.

• 46:40Rayna Greenberg?

  Genuinely trying and you know, we have said to men like, be different, be better, have interests, have hobbies, like be allies to us. And so I don't want to shit on the ones that like actually are making the attempt to do that.

• 46:52Speaker 00

  What I think we gotta look out for, um, ladies is when you take out, sorry, I'm looking at the camera, take out your pen and paper. So it's just if they're, if they're hitting every single check mark of this guy, like I would say for me, I'm like, I got thigh tattoos. Okay. I wear a tote bag. Sure. Maybe you got a ladies watch on.

• 47:11Rayna Greenberg?

  Wait, why do you do? I have that watch.

• 47:14Speaker 00

  Cause I don't have a very big wrist.

• 47:19Speaker 00

  I don't have a very big wrist.

• 47:21Ashley Hesseltine?

  Wait, I'm wearing a men's watch.

• 47:23Rayna Greenberg?

  I'm wearing a men's watch.

• 47:24Ashley Hesseltine?

  I'm gonna switch watches.

• 47:24Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, you want to see what it feels like?

• 47:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  We like to do real gender norms on this show and it's making me uncomfortable.

• 47:29Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, this, I'm just kidding. Wait, is this from Revolve? I have this watch.

• 47:33Speaker 00

  No, it's from, I got it in Janesville, Wisconsin. It was three dollars.

• 47:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  Wanna wear mine?

• 47:37Speaker 00

  Sure. Watch, watch switch. Here we go.

• 47:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  He's like, it's too loose.

• 47:43Speaker 00

  This is heavy. How do you get anything done?

• 47:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  Raina, you're like, it's too, too tight.

• 47:47Rayna Greenberg?

  It fits.

• 47:47Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, that's cute.

• 47:48Rayna Greenberg?

  It is cute. I have this watch.

• 47:50Ashley Hesseltine?

  Huh, that's not gonna fit him. Try.

• 47:52Speaker 00

  I mean, it's tight. I mean, I'm just in the middle of this and it's like.

• 47:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  Why does it look so drug dealer on him?

• 47:59Speaker 00

  It does, doesn't it? Well, this, this looks like a big like, I got a DUI. My dad got me a golf cart as a gift for finishing the classes.

• 48:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  You should go next door. There's these like Timu Wolf of Wall Street guys that walk around in headsets talking about like, bye now. Is that like, it's crazy.

• 48:13Speaker 00

  Oh, they're doing Forex?

• 48:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. Okay, so.

• 48:16Speaker 00

  But I think if you cross off every single thing of like the performative guy checklist, then you should be suspicious.

• 48:24Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes.

• 48:25Speaker 00

  Because I think it's like, I mean, I fucking, I think matcha is a psy-op personally.

• 48:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  What's a psy-op?

• 48:31Speaker 00

  But I think it's a psychological operation by the CIA.

• 48:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  Did you make that up? Psy-op?

• 48:35Speaker 00

  No, that's the thing. People say that all the time.

• 48:37Ashley Hesseltine?

  Is that, it's bad?

• 48:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 48:38Ashley Hesseltine?

  I, matcha's disgusting. It's dirt.

• 48:40Rayna Greenberg?

  No, but scientific operations, it's like birds are fake.

• 48:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, psychological operation.

• 48:44Ashley Hesseltine?

  Like birds.

• 48:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, they're, they're trying to, they're trying to trick us.

• 48:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, got it. And like, what is matcha? Like, what is the purpose of it?

• 48:50Speaker 00

  Exactly. I think it's, I think, you know what the purpose is? I think what they're trying to do is like.

• 48:55Ashley Hesseltine?

  You bring conspiracy theories on the show, Ashley.

• 48:56Speaker 00

  This isn't a conspiracy theory.

• 48:58Ashley Hesseltine?

  He's like, nine eleven was an inside joke.

• 48:59Rayna Greenberg?

  Pandas are fake.

• 48:59Speaker 00

  But like, I also like sports gambling. I also, I think sports gambling is a conspiracy. I think sports gambling is a conspiracy theory.

• 49:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 49:06Speaker 00

  I'll tell you why. I think it's a psychological operation by the government to eliminate the gender wage gap. That's what I think is going on.

• 49:12Ashley Hesseltine?

  Wait, matcha is?

• 49:13Rayna Greenberg?

  I don't even understand that.

• 49:14Speaker 00

  No, it's sports gambling.

• 49:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 49:16Speaker 00

  I think they're trying to like, literally, they're trying to leave, level the playing field.

• 49:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  Of what?

• 49:22Speaker 00

  Of like, they're gonna be like, alright, men get this amount of income. Like, you know how like, women only make eighty cents on the, on the dollar?

• 49:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  So you're saying if, if men are losing money gambling?

• 49:32Speaker 00

  Yes, then everybody's poor.

• 49:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's leveling the playing field?

• 49:34Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 49:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  I just feel like. Sports are rigged, da-da-da.

• 49:39Speaker 00

  Sports are, yeah.

• 49:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, sports are rigged.

• 49:41Speaker 00

  Let's talk some, I gotta.

• 49:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, it's, this ruins people's like, day.

• 49:44Speaker 00

  Talking sports?

• 49:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  Like, talking about sports being rigged.

• 49:47Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 49:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  Like, it's all out of Vegas. It's all.

• 49:50Speaker 00

  I watched a documentary yesterday about how in Russia, they have like, these sports, um, farms essentially, where people get paid by the day just to play like, thirty games of soccer, like, throughout the day, so that people can just gamble on it, on like, sports gambling apps, so you don't have to care about it at all. Do you know how fucked that is?

• 50:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. I mean, I love sports, and I don't wanna believe they are, but I just went to the Super Bowl in twenty twenty-three, and that holding call at the end with the Eagles and the Chiefs, like, I was like, this is rigged, and you will not tell me otherwise.

• 50:21Speaker 00

  He's a big Eagles girl.

• 50:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 50:22Speaker 00

  Eagles.

• 50:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  Go Birds. Okay.

• 50:24Rayna Greenberg?

  Do you believe in pandas? Do you think pandas are real? People think pandas are fake.

• 50:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  Sun bears are not real.

• 50:28Speaker 00

  Not only do I think pandas are real.

• 50:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  You think pandas are real.

• 50:30Speaker 00

  You know what I love? You guys ever heard of panda diplomacy?

• 50:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  No.

• 50:34Speaker 00

  Pandas, so the Chinese are the only country that have pandas in the natural habitat.

• 50:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 50:39Speaker 00

  That's the only country where like they have pandas.

• 50:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  In China, okay.

• 50:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 50:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, okay.

• 50:42Speaker 00

  So usually panda diplomacy was used by the Chinese government throughout the 70s and into the early, into now, pretty much, for like, kind of like a little frosting on top of the cake whenever they're doing an economic deal. So if they're going to China to say, like, be like, hey, we're gonna give you this money to build a railroad, but also here's our zoologist, let's work out a panda exchange.

• 51:02Ashley Hesseltine?

  Pandas are the frosting.

• 51:03Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 51:04Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's how we get pandas and zoos here.

• 51:05Speaker 00

  That's a thing, I'm dead serious.

• 51:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, I believe you.

• 51:07Speaker 00

  And because of our relationship with China has been deteriorating, China's been asking for our, the pandas back.

• 51:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  How many pandas are we having in the United States, though?

• 51:15Speaker 00

  We have three.

• 51:16Ashley Hesseltine?

  How many?

• 51:17Speaker 00

  Three.

• 51:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, is this gonna make a real difference, giving the free back?

• 51:20Speaker 00

  Pandas drive like a majority of traffic to like this.

• 51:24Ashley Hesseltine?

  Zoo visits?

• 51:24Speaker 00

  But like, yeah, China's asking for all these pandas back.

• 51:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's crazy.

• 51:28Speaker 00

  Because of like our bad relationship, but also...

• 51:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  We don't deserve them.

• 51:31Speaker 00

  We don't deserve them.

• 51:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  Exactly. We don't deserve them. Did you see that whole sun bear scandal?

• 51:35Speaker 00

  Yes, I did.

• 51:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's insane.

• 51:37Speaker 00

  That's really funny.

• 51:38Ashley Hesseltine?

  They really look like people. It's hard to, it's hard to believe that they're not people. And like, was it, is it China also? The country where this, they had to come out and be like, these are real bears, you guys, stop.

• 51:50Speaker 00

  Stop, don't relax.

• 51:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 51:52Speaker 00

  Don't stop.

• 51:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  So the performative male, I mean, I like this, I like this one quote, this is from a HuffPost article.

• 51:58Speaker 00

  Do you know any performative male that's got China panda facts like this?

• 52:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, we'll say this about you, you wouldn't say it about yourself, but you're basically saying like, I'm a dynamic person, I like sports and I like tattoos, but I also, you know, support women's rights and I have a tote bag in the car. Like, I think it's just like, be a little sus when it feels like someone went down a checklist and they are like, literally playing a character. But I love this quote in the HuffPost article, and it says, "If the choice is between a man cosplaying feminism with a tote bag and a man clinging to outdated ideas of what real men should be, I know which one I'll take my chances with." Which I think that's true.

• 52:33Speaker 00

  No, you summed up what I was saying perfectly, just be dynamic in general. And, I don't know, something I talk about on my show all the time is just... Like, continue to learn. Like, I think reading is like a big thing. Like, I love reading. I got in trouble a lot as a kid, so all I could do was just read in my room, pretty much. So, I just, it's like a thing that I literally just keep going, but like, be curious and try new hobbies and interests. I think guys especially, I guess some people that are like former athletes, growing up. When you are done with that sort of like, you know, team, rah rah, I'm in high school, I'm in college doing this. Then it just becomes like, okay, now what is my weekend routine? What is the thing I do every night? Is it just drinking or, or like a sports league? Like, we need other hobbies.

• 53:17Speaker 00

  You need to be fulfilled and always be curious about the outside world.

• 53:20Rayna Greenberg?

  I agree.

• 53:21Speaker 00

  Be dynamic, like Ashley said.

• 53:22Rayna Greenberg?

  And I also, I don't think there's anything totally wrong with men saying like, I like women, I want to date women. Going on TikTok and be like, what are women into? And then being like, let me try to understand this a little bit. If, like, performative is the, is a bad word associated with this, like, if it's a lie. But if, if the goal is just like, I want to see what they're up to. So that we have something in common to talk about, then like, what's so wrong with that?

• 53:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  And you may look back, like, we all look back and be like, oh, I was so cringe and I was like, trying something. And it maybe wasn't authentic to me in the moment, and then I figured it out and I, you know, met in the middle. Like, I overcorrected a little bit. We all do things when we're like, trying to figure out who we are. But I wanted to read you this email, because it comes in perfect. This was from a guy. We don't get a lot of emails from guys, but I thought this was really nice and genuine. And this guy's 28, and he says, hi, my name is, I'm not gonna read his name, but I'm 28 years old. I've never been in a relationship. I know what you're thinking, big red flag. Dating for me is the hardest thing ever, especially in Santa Barbara, California. I've probably been on only eight dates in my life. Some have been decent. I've only made it through a second date with two different people. These dates aren't hookups, they're just meet and greets.

• 54:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  I can't help but think the whole time, as I'm meeting women, I'm crashing and burning the entire time. It's gotten to the point where I've kind of stopped trying to meet women because I fear that they all think I'm uninteresting. I want to meet that special someone for me. Do you have any words of advice? I'm starting to think that I'm destined to be alone. I'm certainly not a skeevy guy, unlike all the guys talked about in your podcast. I put a lot of people's emotions before my own. I'm highly sensitive. I would think it would make me more desirable, but these women still seem like they're attracted to asshole douchebags. My friends tell me not to be an asshole. I can't even bring myself to do that. It's not in my nature. I've been given the label nice guy quite a lot. What can I do to make dating better for me and for women? I find myself asking all the questions all the time because I'm afraid to talk too much about myself.

• 55:08Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, what are your thoughts?

• 55:09Speaker 00

  Hmm, damn, that is, shout out to whoever sent the email.

• 55:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, we really love it.

• 55:14Speaker 00

  It's gonna get better, don't worry about it, you're not gonna be alone forever, you'll find somebody, first of all, first and foremost, remember that. Second of all, probably just take a break from, like, I mean, it doesn't seem like he's like actively going out and seeking dates. Damn, eight dates, Santa Barbara's also gotta be.

• 55:31Rayna Greenberg?

  Santa Barbara's gotta be kinda tough.

• 55:32Speaker 00

  Santa Barbara's gotta be like a lot of women going out being like, I want someone that looks like my dad and thinks like him too.

• 55:38Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, I looked him up and he is more of a blue collared guy. Maybe he's running into women who want guys with more money. I mean, he seems like he has a respectable job and like, I don't know, like, I don't know this guy either.

• 55:52Rayna Greenberg?

  I really, I feel for this guy, cuz it seems like he does wanna like, ask the questions and, you know, one of my things I picked up on from this is like, I think as we get older, we just like nicer guys, Ashley and I both have just gravitated towards better, more solid people as we've gotten older. I would maybe suggest dating a little older, so, like, I think that maybe you're dating women that are still in the bucket of like, thrill me, excite me, reject me, be avoidant, you know, confuse me, and like, as I've gotten older, I just don't, I'm not like such a bad bitch, I just, I get bored with that, I don't have patience for it, I don't think it's interesting or sexy in any way.

• 56:28Speaker 00

  I have two recommendations, number one, maybe just confidence. I think, from what I'm gathering from the email, it's like, you are doing the right things, but maybe they can, it's like almost with like stand-up, like an audience can smell fear.

• 56:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes.

• 56:41Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes.

• 56:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  And desperation, which I think sometimes women, I'm like, I think you're giving off a desperate energy, and we have all been there, that's not like an insult, but like, we sense, I think men sense the desperation the way that women sense the lack of confidence and insecurity.

• 56:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, lack of confidence, so like, just be confident, and you know what, the best way to build up that confidence? Go to like the local bar, like dive bars in San, like Santa Barbara, get fucked up, just have a couple sloppy makeouts, I think. Just really like have a night where like you have two, three makeout kills. And just kinda like get, just get the wheels greased a little bit, if that makes sense, you know what, like, I'm not saying one night stands, but like, hey, single mother of three?

• 57:24Ashley Hesseltine?

  Weird, how did this happen?

• 57:25Speaker 00

  Tammy, get over, hey, she wants a seven and seven. I think that that'll get you, that's, that'll build up the confidence.

• 57:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  Grease the wheels, yeah.

• 57:33Speaker 00

  Grease the wheels.

• 57:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  But the thing that I latched on the most in this email was him feeling like people think he's boring. And to your point, there's ways to not be boring and read more. Like, we, like, Tinks talks about this a lot of, like, we could all be more interesting. Read an article every day. Like, pick up something, learn new information, pick up a new hobby or skill. If you're not, like, an athlete, then do something else. Like, I just think, if you think people think you're boring, I really feel for those people. That's tough. It's tough to think that you might be a person who's like, everyone thinks I'm boring and I suck and I'm uninteresting. It's like, you could always be more interesting. You could always have more things to talk about and things to discuss. And, like, women find that shit so hot. I read this morning, a panty dropper.

• 58:17Speaker 00

  The hobby thing's a big one. I think anybody that can find, like, a, like, just a passion just to talk about ad nauseam.

• 58:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 58:24Speaker 00

  I think is huge. I just remember, I was in Texas, this, like, guy, like, he was like, oh dude, I'm a fan of, fan of your stand-up. I'm like, oh, no way. I'm, like, eating breakfast tacos. This guy, he just starts talking about, like, how he surfs in Houston, Texas, next to the oil barges. And I go, oh, yeah, it's crazy seeing palm trees down here. He starts talking to me about all the different kinds of palm trees in the United States. I go, what an interesting guy.

• 58:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes. Like, all that guy did was, like, read up on trees.

• 58:49Speaker 00

  And I sucked him off.

• 58:50Ashley Hesseltine?

  Like, he just knew about trees.

• 58:51Rayna Greenberg?

  And he got a blowjob.

• 58:52Speaker 00

  At the end, I bought it.

• 58:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes, exactly. He fucked Tammy, a mother of three.

• 58:56Rayna Greenberg?

  I fell for this guy when he says, I don't like talking about myself. And when you don't talk about yourself, it's hard to build a connection with other people. People don't walk away feeling like they have a deeper knowledge of you, they understand you better. So, having some interest in hobbies will lead to you wanting to talk about yourself more, will lead to a better connection with people, will lead to you fucking that mom. And I really always feel like being, like, an expert in the area you live in. Santa Barbara, I mean, there's so much good food, there's so much good wine, there's so much good shopping, the areas around there, there's so much cool stuff to do, whether you like outdoor sports or, I don't know, pick a hobby, you can do it there. Become an expert in your area until when you take a girl out, like, say, have you ever been to XYZ thing?

• 59:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 59:33Rayna Greenberg?

  I love this thing.

• 59:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  This is low lift stuff. Like, literally, the internet is your friend. And I think we just solved this.

• 59:40Speaker 00

  I'm telling you, once again, put up, the make-out kills. That is like putting up shots at the gym. It's literally low, no risk, like high reward. The reward is just, just get some mojo.

• 59:54Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay.

• 59:54Speaker 00

  Once you get that mojo, that confidence, a little bit of Johnny Bravo, hey, how are you? I think it's gonna be.

• 1:00:00Rayna Greenberg?

  The momentum.

• 1:00:01Speaker 00

  Momentum.

• 1:00:01Rayna Greenberg?

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• 1:00:44Rayna Greenberg?

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• 1:01:28Rayna Greenberg?

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• 1:01:40Ashley Hesseltine?

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• 1:02:24Ashley Hesseltine?

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• 1:03:06Ashley Hesseltine?

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• 1:03:40Rayna Greenberg?

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• 1:04:24Rayna Greenberg?

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• 1:04:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, so you don't do dating apps and you think there is only one way to meet people and that's Instagram?

• 1:04:40Speaker 00

  Making out at the bar. I'm telling you right now, just like you just gotta get a little bit of motion.

• 1:04:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  So why don't you like dating apps and you haven't done them? Is it just not feel natural to you?

• 1:04:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, it doesn't feel natural. And I also don't like the idea of, like, if you're messaging three different people on a dating app, it feels rude to me then to say, oh, I've really got a connection with this one person. The other two, hey, see ya. Now you have no idea. Maybe they had the same connection with me. Maybe that's the nice guy thing, but I just, I feel like my attention is better spent dating somebody and being interested in one person at a time.

• 1:05:16Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, I agree with you. I think less to each their own. I think that you are able to be out in the world on a stage. You're a handsome guy. Like, not everybody has access to all of these people all the time. You have a social media following. People can slide into your, you know what I mean? Like, for some people, that is their only option. And I actually think it's kind of nice dating a few people at once. And when I say, like, I think people get a little wrapped up in like, what does that mean? Dating a few people at once, to me, is like three dates or less. I'm not, I don't, I don't really see myself going on five, six dates with a person. Like, once I'm on the fourth or fifth date, I don't really have like a huge emotional capacity to be doing that with another person.

• 1:05:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:05:50Rayna Greenberg?

  And then the person, other person on the other end is like, oh, I'm dating someone. And you're like, oh, I'm dating three other people.

• 1:05:55Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:05:56Rayna Greenberg?

  So dating around, to me, is like several people that you've gone on like two, three dates with. And I think it, it keeps it easy for you to be like, okay, this is the thing I like about this person. And if one person kind of ghosts out a little bit, it hurts a little less. And I like that aspect of it.

• 1:06:10Ashley Hesseltine?

  I know, because we've had these, we've had these conversations where... Someone disappears or ghosts, which is just like the grossest behavior and we just have no patience for it. And if someone ghosts you, it's a blessing because you don't want to be with a person who would do that anyway. But we've said before, like, maybe their connection with someone else was just kind of further along. And it's, it's not fair if you like fully thought you were dating.

• 1:06:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:06:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  Five, five, six dates in, that's a lot. And there are eight to 10 dates with somebody else and they just pick them and leave you hanging. It's just, it feels so unfair.

• 1:06:43Rayna Greenberg?

  Eight to 10, I mean, I feel like by date, I'm a little withholding.

• 1:06:47Speaker 00

  It's two months.

• 1:06:47Rayna Greenberg?

  That's a lot.

• 1:06:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes.

• 1:06:49Rayna Greenberg?

  I feel like I'm a little withholding the first couple of dates. I'm not going to share certain things about like my family or certainly like our business, my deep dark thoughts. But like, five dates in, I'm sharing at least some more intimate details of myself. And I mean, I'm obviously sleeping with you. I don't want, we've been past one date, obviously we're fucking.

• 1:07:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:09Rayna Greenberg?

  I don't know, five dates, six dates with somebody, I don't, it's too much to juggle another person.

• 1:07:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  When did you make it official with your girlfriend? Like, did you guys casually date a little bit or was it pretty early you were locked in?

• 1:07:20Speaker 00

  I was pretty early locked in.

• 1:07:21Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 1:07:22Speaker 00

  It was nobody else.

• 1:07:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  Right.

• 1:07:24Speaker 00

  So I was just, I was just focused on that. We made it like official boyfriend, girlfriend, like, like three months in.

• 1:07:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh.

• 1:07:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, is that soon?

• 1:07:32Rayna Greenberg?

  It's long for her.

• 1:07:36Speaker 00

  I mean, let's, I, I actually have, I have no, also, I have like no, I have no concept of time either.

• 1:07:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  It does feel crazy to me.

• 1:07:42Rayna Greenberg?

  After two dates, I'm like, aren't you my girlfriend?

• 1:07:44Speaker 00

  I think that's like, I think it was like July, so like, I think it's two months. I don't know. I honestly, I can't figure it out.

• 1:07:50Rayna Greenberg?

  That sounds about right. For most, three months is, listen, you go at your own pace, you know? But that's, I think that's, I think that's normal.

• 1:07:58Speaker 00

  It do you.

• 1:08:00Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah. We kissed once and I'm like, are you my boyfriend?

• 1:08:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, but I didn't mind, I didn't mind. I was ready to, I was ready to get after, after the third, third, I was like, I don't care.

• 1:08:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. Well, we love that you're in a happy, healthy relationship. Let's talk about the other men. Yeah. And we'll segue into where have all the men gone?

• 1:08:16Speaker 00

  Where have they gone?

• 1:08:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  You have a lot of friends and a busy life.

• 1:08:19Speaker 00

  Yeah. Shout out my boys. Shout out Greenie, Curly, Turner, Treats, Lawn, Oles.

• 1:08:27Rayna Greenberg?

  This is the first time someone shouted out a list of people on the show. And I cut that. One of the good men, I'm kidding. That was so gross. I'm kidding, I'm kidding.

• 1:08:33Speaker 00

  Come on, the boys. They all listened.

• 1:08:35Rayna Greenberg?

  We loved it. No, they don't. You have one friend that listens, you would actually shout out.

• 1:08:39Speaker 00

  Shout out, Jari!

• 1:08:41Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay.

• 1:08:42Speaker 00

  Mira Manna!

• 1:08:44Rayna Greenberg?

  We've never had somebody shout out a list of people, a whole baseball team.

• 1:08:46Speaker 00

  That was a whole, yeah, it's a starting line.

• 1:08:48Rayna Greenberg?

  That's the starting lineup for your hockey team?

• 1:08:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:08:51Rayna Greenberg?

  So, has your life changed with the boys and with the activities since, like, partner came into it? Like, do you, have you found it hard to balance, or has it just been pretty natural?

• 1:09:01Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:09:01Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay.

• 1:09:01Speaker 00

  I think it's been pretty natural. You know, I'm lucky, because here in LA, my childhood neighbor lives down the street from me here in LA. And his cousin, who I went to high school with, lives in the same building as him.

• 1:09:12Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay.

• 1:09:12Speaker 00

  So, we all just.

• 1:09:13Rayna Greenberg?

  Close proximity.

• 1:09:14Speaker 00

  Close proximity, so, I mean, we go to his place, we call it the clubhouse, we kind of hang out there, but, for the most part, I'm also just, like, working, you know? We're either at the store, or, like, just doing spots. And what's, what's nice with, you know, my girlfriend is that she is also doing, like, stand-up and, like, comedy-related things, so we have a similar schedule. It all works out. I'm not, like, taking away time out of anything, I don't really think.

• 1:09:38Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay. Because we find that sometimes guys disappear when they get into a relationship, and they never really get those friendships back. I mean, it's just, we talk about men just losing their friends as they get married and they get into serious relationships. There was a great podcast on the New York Times Daily a couple of weeks ago, based on an article in the New York Times, and, ah, the name's just giving me, it doesn't, it doesn't matter. But a couple of weeks ago, on a Sunday, they do a Modern Love, and it was this guy who wrote an article about how, after he kind of found his serious romantic partner, got married, that, like, the male relationships in his life kind of dissipated, and how it's kind of cyclical, like, men, you find a female partner, and you're like, I get all these things from her. This is my buddy, my entertainment, my sex life, I can be vulnerable to this person, why do I need other things?

• 1:10:23Rayna Greenberg?

  And he talks about how society doesn't also, like, really encourage that. We say men should have friends, but I, I liked the way he spoke about it, and I won't be able to say it as eloquently, but, like, when husbands are going out, you're like... What are you doing? A husband at a bar with your friends? Or this trope of like a man who's on the golf course all day long? But when you really think about how men spend social time together, it is sitting next to each other, watching sports, or it is on a golf course. And we kind of shit on those things as a society. But it is nice to find men that actually want to do things with their friends.

• 1:10:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  My gosh, totally.

• 1:10:58Rayna Greenberg?

  But you know what I'm talking about? The trope of like, he's just at the golf course all day. It's like, but he's with his friends, he should socialize.

• 1:11:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  I've mentioned this, like how my brother went out with me for drinks. And we stayed out, you know, later in the night. And one of his friends was like, Steph let you do that? It's like, what? Like, I could have been one of his male friends, too. Like regardless, like this trope of like, oh, she let you out the house? It's just like, what are we doing here? You know, and it's one thing when you have babies at home. And it's not like an absent father. But I just think there is that trope that like guys aren't supposed to go out with the boys anymore or something.

• 1:11:32Rayna Greenberg?

  It is these conflicting messages of like, men don't have any friends or community. But like, we do as a society, tend to kind of mock it or make fun of it, or be like, over my dead body, is my man gonna do that? And I think you should trust your partner. Your sister-in-law trusts your brother. Your brother could go out to a bar all night long. I don't think that she feels abandoned by her partner, or like she's being lied to or giving a runaround. But they're conflicting messages.

• 1:11:55Speaker 00

  Well, you know, I'll give you an example. We've been doing this sports documentary about, um, me and my friends, we create a hockey team and we go out and we play a semi-pro hockey team out in the Mountain West. We did an interview with our buddy Sal. He has a newborn baby. He's got a dog, he's got a wife. And we're doing the interviews at his house. He's got his baby in his lap. And, uh, you know, his wife's like loving it, having a good time. But then like, we interviewed his wife a little bit and she goes, yeah, he loves this, like, I need him to do this. I need him to get out and do this. And like, this, by the way, isn't like, hey, he's going to play like 18 holes down the street. It's like, he's taking work off.

• 1:12:34Speaker 00

  From Thursday to Sunday to go play a pretty like, you know, a high intensity hockey, like get two games of hockey. Which is like not normal for a thirty one year old man to do.

• 1:12:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:46Speaker 00

  I want more guys to just spend time like that, but I also noticed the trend that it's going that way. And I think it's a couple of reasons, because I also live with a guy who's twenty three years old.

• 1:12:55Ashley Hesseltine?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:12:55Speaker 00

  So I'm elder Gen Z, this is real Gen Z.

• 1:12:58Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:59Speaker 00

  They don't drink anymore.

• 1:13:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:13:00Speaker 00

  So like that is a real thing. Like I noticed a lot of, they might drink in college or they might have drank like before or like.

• 1:13:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  Not like we did, not like millennials did, like we were trying to die.

• 1:13:09Speaker 00

  I like to get on the piss. A guy like me, I'm getting after it. Okay?

• 1:13:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's the Boston guy, I think.

• 1:13:13Speaker 00

  Two three hundred B L smoothies, easy, no problem. Control, alt, delete.

• 1:13:20Speaker 00

  It's game over.

• 1:13:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's so Boston today, it's so Boston.

• 1:13:24Speaker 00

  I put three hundred dollars in the touch tunes.

• 1:13:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  I'm gonna delete all of these.

• 1:13:27Speaker 00

  I'm just gonna play Zombie by The Cranberries for three hours.

• 1:13:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes.

• 1:13:32Speaker 00

  But, but regardless, like they're just online, like he doesn't, instead of like going out to a bar, he'll just say like, no, my friends from back home are on Xbox. I'm just gonna go, I'm just gonna play Xbox, I'm not gonna go out. And then what happens when like those Xbox friends then get girlfriends? So then you're just losing friends that you haven't even made time for really in the first place.

• 1:13:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  In the real world, yeah.

• 1:13:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, and it's, I, I just feel like the, the places to go in the real world are getting smaller and smaller. And then on top of that, golf, I think is the bigger barrier to entry for young people in general. So like maybe a lot of guys aren't getting into golf, I don't think, at least some people I know.

• 1:14:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  I mean, I do wanna back up and say that like, the reason why these things have been frowned upon, guys going out and partying all night and hitting the strip club or going and golfing all day and getting blackout drunk and they can't come home and change their kid's diaper. Like, it's because those men do exist. And so, I think that it's like.

• 1:14:28Speaker 00

  And they're called fun as hell.

• 1:14:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  That is shitty behavior.

• 1:14:34Rayna Greenberg?

  But women can do this because like you trust us to go do it.

• 1:14:37Ashley Hesseltine?

  Like it's the trust thing.

• 1:14:38Rayna Greenberg?

  I can go out with my girlfriends all night, party, get drunk, go home. Nothing crazy or bad happens and I don't cheat on anybody.

• 1:14:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's the thing. It's like, it's just about trust and it's about if you're an adult that's responsible and trustworthy and behaving, but it's like, I always think of a couple I know and her husband will golf all day, Saturday, every single Saturday, every, every one. It, I mean, no Saturdays off. I mean, unless they have like, if they travel or something. And she's like, I get to go to brunch with my girlfriends and day drink all day and then bounce around and do whatever I want. Like this is my dream. Like everyone should date a golf guy. He just leaves you alone to go do.

• 1:15:17Rayna Greenberg?

  I think it sounds amazing.

• 1:15:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  Girlie stuff on a Saturday.

• 1:15:19Rayna Greenberg?

  I think it's, I mean, I guess the problem is you can't.

• 1:15:21Speaker 00

  Who wants to hang out with somebody that much? I think about that sometimes where I'm just like, if you're with your partner all week, like you need like a good half day.

• 1:15:30Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, a break is nice.

• 1:15:30Speaker 00

  Give you a half day.

• 1:15:32Rayna Greenberg?

  I love my Saturdays with my fiance though.

• 1:15:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  I know.

• 1:15:34Rayna Greenberg?

  I wouldn't want him to leave me every Saturday. Well, if you have kids, it's different. And if you feel like you don't have a social life outside of that together, like we didn't also spend all day Sunday together, like I do understand that.

• 1:15:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  And they've been together 20 years too. You know what I mean? Like it's, it's, that's different too.

• 1:15:47Rayna Greenberg?

  I just, I do think we should like support men like going out into the world, finding friends.

• 1:15:50Speaker 00

  This is the most, the podcast that supports men the most.

• 1:15:52Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, no, no, no.

• 1:15:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  We don't want to, absolutely don't.

• 1:15:55Speaker 00

  I'm based on this episode.

• 1:15:56Rayna Greenberg?

  No.

• 1:15:58Ashley Hesseltine?

  This is our male apologist episode.

• 1:16:00Speaker 00

  Finally.

• 1:16:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. I mean, we want, this article really is the one you sent and it's tight. The title is men, where have you gone? And this was in the New York Times and it just says, men, men have retreated from intimacy, hiding behind firewalls, filters and curated personas dabbling and scrolling. We miss you. And this woman went out with her male friend and just kind of noticed like no men were out. Like it was groups of women and like very few men, even men like on dates. And she just kind of spoke about it and it kind of goes back to what you're saying, especially younger generations. They want it, they're indoors on devices.

• 1:16:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:16:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  And sometimes that's how they're communicating with their friends. And there was a rebuttal, basically.

• 1:16:38Rayna Greenberg?

  Basically Ben said, you know, well, We're scared a little bit and there's all of this stuff online now at every time I go on a date with somebody there's TikTok about it about what did I wear and how much did I pay and how did I behave?

• 1:16:51Speaker 00

  They're absolutely right.

• 1:16:52Rayna Greenberg?

  And did I ask enough questions and then there's you know, there's all these online forums like, are we dating the same guy and I'm afraid to appear on one of these and and then there's the ick and everything I do is gonna be like Richard Schreides and again, I don't feel bad for any of you, but I understand feeling like I can't ever get it right. Nothing I do will be right. So we're here, but we're afraid of you.

• 1:17:13Rayna Greenberg?

  Do you see this?

• 1:17:14Speaker 00

  Absolutely. And you know what, Raina? Those same fears were echoed by my 23 year old roommate. I read this in the in the actual newspaper and whenever I read something I find thought provoking, I make my 23 year old roommate also read it.

• 1:17:24Rayna Greenberg?

  I love this. You're really like, you're raising him.

• 1:17:26Speaker 00

  I am. I'm a single father raising this boy. When I told you I screamed at him the other day because he ate a he was about to eat a bowl of ground beef straight up. I was like, you can't eat that. And he goes, what do you mean? I go, that's dog food. You're eating dog food right now. And he goes like, yeah, dude, because I'm a dog. And I go, that's pretty funny. Okay.

• 1:17:45Rayna Greenberg?

  No more barfing.

• 1:17:45Speaker 00

  I'm like, that's fun.

• 1:17:46Rayna Greenberg?

  I validate that it is harder for all genders to date today. I don't remember being faced with any of these problems in my twenties.

• 1:17:52Speaker 00

  This is a byproduct of living in 2025.

• 1:17:55Rayna Greenberg?

  It is.

• 1:17:55Speaker 00

  If you want to be out there or most be the most true and authentic version of yourself while dating, you're gonna have to like risk being absolutely cooked in the comments by upwards of a million people online. That's just what's gonna end up happening. All right? This is what it is at this point.

• 1:18:11Rayna Greenberg?

  Like you're saying, we have to adapt.

• 1:18:13Speaker 00

  You have to adapt. I was dating a girl here in LA and she would make TikToks about like me taking her out and then some one of them ended up on Fox News.

• 1:18:21Rayna Greenberg?

  Not Fox.

• 1:18:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, Fox. I mean, I've come I came off as a great guy, but.

• 1:18:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  But yeah, I mean, this it's tough. Raina and I really want to toe the line. Like we I think back to our Drew Afuelo episode and just she's really the far end of the spectrum of like, you're guilty until proven innocent and she's not wrong. And like men that these bad behaviors don't apply to aren't offended by this. Like these, are we dating the same guy and ick lists and stuff like that. I think of people like you probably like my fiance, like our brothers who are like, I don't this doesn't scare me off because I'm not gonna fall into those buckets. So it's just like, be better. There's a reason why these exist and women are more empowered than ever as they should be, but.

• 1:19:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  If you want to know what's going on, we're here to tell you.

• 1:19:07Speaker 00

  I'd also agree that, I want to say this, because I think like all these articles coming out, where it's like, what's wrong with men? Men are broken, men are lonely. This is starting to become like a pathology at this point.

• 1:19:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:19:19Speaker 00

  Where like, I think it's gonna, I think there's some truth to it, at least I feel like, if we just keep churning out these articles, where like, eventually every guy's just gonna start thinking, I am lonely and broken. It's like, you weren't originally, but now you have to think like, am I lonely and broken? Am I fucked up? Like,

• 1:19:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:36Speaker 00

  Am I not seeing my friends enough? Am I not doing this? Like, to any guys that do listen, especially to the guy that wrote the email, it's fine. We're gonna be okay. The country, probably not, but like, you'll be alright. Okay, just again, pick up a hobby, alright? Talk to women and just be normal.

• 1:19:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  But that's the thing, you're gonna be alright if you do those things. I mean, I think it goes back to like our episode with Scott Galloway. It's like, when I coach men, I'm like, get off your fucking phone, and get out in the world, and work out, and make some money, and talk to women, and be interesting. And it's just like, you gotta do the things though, or you're not gonna be okay. So, it's just like, let's not read the articles and be like, well, am I lonely? It's just like, I don't know. Like, are you? You know, but I respect your point.

• 1:20:21Speaker 00

  You are right though, Ash. I mean, like, it is like a very, I think I thought about this like in college, just like the way like, everything is very coddled, I think, just in general, where everything feels very easy, especially from our phones.

• 1:20:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:20:36Speaker 00

  So I think guys also get this all like, sense of like entitlement in general. We're like, why, why don't I have a good job coming out? Like, why isn't this going on? And that's not women, that's not like, anything to do with you, it's just society. This is like endgame, late-stage capitalism, why like all of our lives are shit. But then like, that contributes to like the male loneliness epidemic. Like, I, I was gonna say when we were talking about guys that need to go out and reconnect and like stay in touch with their friends. Think about the guy that probably has like a baby and a dog and a wife where he's just, he's like, yo, I have to work all the time. And by the time I get to the weekends, I don't want to fucking get shitfaced. I want to rest because I gotta dial it back in on Monday so I can like keep this mortgage going.

• 1:21:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, I mean, I've I talked to my brother and he is the sole provider for hi- his wife and two small children and he's stressed at work and he wants to still be there for his family and my dad's going through some health stuff like he's got a lot on his shoulders and I'm like, you have to talk to people, you have to talk to me if you if it's there, but like you can't just hold this all in. And so I think obviously we've come a long way with that, too. And obviously he leans on his wife and he's got a great support system, but I like empathize. I certainly am not a woman that's like, you're a man, figure it out, you know? So, you know, I just, I want to validate that dating is

• 1:22:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  harder today. It's like it, it just is a lot harder than when I was in my twenties. There's so much information out there about what men and women, every gender should do and how you should behave and show up and like, I don't remember ever thinking about this stuff in my twenties. Like, I just wanted to date and I hoped I enjoyed it. I didn't think like, what percentage of the time did I spend asking questions? And I never really thought about it. And I think a lot of this is good. I think it's good to talk about toxic behavior and narcissism and gaslighting and path- pathology in general, but like things have changed and we can't just complain about it. We do have to adapt a little bit.

• 1:22:34Speaker 00

  And we and we will. That's the thing. Let's, let's, let's, let's be positive here. We're gonna adapt. We're gonna be okay.

• 1:22:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  I mean, I this comment on the article says, people used to keep diaries, which they would lock and hide away. Inviting strangers on the internet to comment on your personal relationships, your photos, your hopes, your criticisms of friends and family, plus all your petty little grievances strikes me as being a pretty solid definition of insanity. And it's like, I can't be hypocritical. We do a podcast where we share these things and people can publicly comment. I'm open to the comments. I think there's like this thing of everyone being like, I don't want to end up on the internet. I don't envy being that age. I'm glad I'm not. Mm hmm. So, good luck if you're 23.

• 1:23:13Speaker 00

  I know. I try and shout out my boy, Peter.

• 1:23:18Speaker 00

  I'm raising my, I'm raising my boy.

• 1:23:21Ashley Hesseltine?

  I wanted to end with the golden retriever boyfriend versus black cat boyfriend. Are you familiar with these two?

• 1:23:30Speaker 00

  Please describe. I know the gold, the, I used to do a joke about it, but.

• 1:23:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, what's, do you identify with a golden retriever or?

• 1:23:38Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, do you know the whole concept of like black cat, golden retriever?

• 1:23:41Speaker 00

  I know the golden retriever is like a guy who's like, hey, yeah, alright.

• 1:23:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  People say Travis Kelsey is like the archetype of the golden retriever.

• 1:23:49Rayna Greenberg?

  It's the opposite of withholding, you know, and I actually don't read it as like too eager, but it is like the very securely attached, open with their emotions, shows up. Whereas like black cat boyfriend, black cat girlfriend, that's exactly what you think it is.

• 1:24:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, Donnie Darko.

• 1:24:03Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, you can't catch them, you know? A little more, a little more elusive, you're not sure.

• 1:24:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, you get into the apartment, there's like, yeah, he's around, I don't know where he is.

• 1:24:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  He's under the bed.

• 1:24:14Speaker 00

  He's under the bed!

• 1:24:15Ashley Hesseltine?

  Do you watch Summer I Turn Pretty?

• 1:24:16Speaker 00

  No, no.

• 1:24:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  You're actually like, I'm still a man.

• 1:24:21Ashley Hesseltine?

  They compare the two brothers in this show is, one is the golden retriever, one's a black cat. And the black cat is, I don't know, he's like more brooding and he's, yes, more withholding. I guess you could kind of say he's avoidant, so I don't love that. And that's why I.

• 1:24:35Speaker 00

  I love that word, brooding though, I just, I, whenever I think of that word, I just think of some guy going.

• 1:24:41Speaker 00

  Just like out loud moaning.

• 1:24:42Rayna Greenberg?

  Too dramatic.

• 1:24:44Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's dramatic. So, we just thought it was interesting. I, I think you want a black cat in the streets and a golden retriever in the sheets.

• 1:24:52Speaker 00

  Whoa!

• 1:24:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  Like someone that's more of that like withholding vibe with other people, but they are different with you.

• 1:24:58Rayna Greenberg?

  Mushy at home.

• 1:24:59Speaker 00

  Oh, okay. Well, like, uh, yeah.

• 1:25:01Rayna Greenberg?

  But that's not black cat, black cat boyfriend is different than like black cat with other people. You don't want black cat at home.

• 1:25:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, you don't want black cat at home.

• 1:25:09Rayna Greenberg?

  Right, but that's.

• 1:25:10Ashley Hesseltine?

  You want black cat with other people.

• 1:25:12Rayna Greenberg?

  Well.

• 1:25:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  You want other people to be like.

• 1:25:14Speaker 00

  What's his deal?

• 1:25:15Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, what's his deal? But at home, all over you, lovey, just on you.

• 1:25:19Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's what I'm saying, but I'm, I mean.

• 1:25:21Rayna Greenberg?

  You don't want black cat boyfriend.

• 1:25:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, but I don't think, I don't think there's a split. I don't think you can be both.

• 1:25:26Rayna Greenberg?

  I think you can.

• 1:25:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  My fiance is, I think.

• 1:25:28Speaker 00

  You think he's black cat in the streets?

• 1:25:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, I know people like that for sure.

• 1:25:31Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:25:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, he's, he's warmed up, but I think he had this kind of, I mean, I thought he was such an asshole when I first met him.

• 1:25:37Speaker 00

  You're probably taking him out of his shell.

• 1:25:38Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:39Speaker 00

  That's probably a difference though, so like eventually he will go full retriever.

• 1:25:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  But he just is not, the way he is with other.

• 1:25:46Speaker 00

  Pokemon evolution right now.

• 1:25:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  He just doesn't give, he doesn't give it all away with new people in, in public. He's just kind of looks serious. But he's like the sweetest.

• 1:25:59Rayna Greenberg?

  Like something, we joke sometimes, like other people's boyfriend's behavior. And I'm like, sometimes I will meet someone's boyfriend or husband and they'll really like lock in with me and like a lot of eye contact, a lot of questions. And I'm like, there's just a difference and I feel it when somebody's being nice versus being like, it's a little too much. And I'm like, why is your boyfriend showing me this much attention? Like, Ashley's fiance and I are buds. I love him. We're good friends. He feels like family to me. He doesn't like lock in and get like mushy with me, you know?

• 1:26:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, like a boundary.

• 1:26:33Speaker 00

  I mean, like there's, I know. Yeah. I guess I've never, even with my girlfriend's friends, like I'm like, I'm friends with them.

• 1:26:38Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. You seem like, I mean.

• 1:26:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm just friends with them. I'm just, I, yeah, I can't like turn.

• 1:26:43Ashley Hesseltine?

  Exactly.

• 1:26:44Speaker 00

  It off, I guess. I'm just being myself. I'm having fun.

• 1:26:47Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. I mean, I would joke that my fiance hates everyone and loves me. And that's my biggest turn on. But that's just like a Boston trait, you know? And I'm kidding because he has like amazing friends and family that he cares about so much. But I like his whole, like, you'd think he was a dick and he is the sweetest, kindest guy.

• 1:27:03Rayna Greenberg?

  But he's not black cat boyfriend. He is to you, not that at all. And I have no interest in black cat boyfriend. And I hate the trope. It is the number one thing I hate in pop culture, media, movies, books, where we like write these characters of these like brooding guys and these girls that just like wait around and get shit on and they just hope for it. And then, and then he realizes, he wakes up and realizes you're the one. And like, I hate this trope so much. I have no interest in black cat boyfriend.

• 1:27:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  I just AI'd it. So black cat boyfriend.

• 1:27:34Rayna Greenberg?

  I just.

• 1:27:38Ashley Hesseltine?

  I didn't use chat GPT. I don't want to use the official name because you know, I don't use it. Okay. So the black cat boyfriend is moody, ugh, reserved and emotionally complex, contrasting with the more outgoing golden retriever boyfriend. Popular examples of black cat boyfriend archetypes include Conrad from the summer I turned pretty, the number one. Felix from Too Much, which we started that show but didn't finish it, and Carmy from The Bear. That's a great example.

• 1:28:02Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, I don't, listen.

• 1:28:03Speaker 00

  That guy seems like a lot, though.

• 1:28:05Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, I don't want it.

• 1:28:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's what I'm saying. You don't know where you stand, like the moodiness.

• 1:28:08Rayna Greenberg?

  I don't want to work for it that hard at this age. Like, I actually like a guy who is intentional, and I'm not guessing how they feel, and they may or may not show up, and you get these bursts of them being into you, and then they just take it away. Nothing is less interesting to me than that. I'm not like, you can't treat me like that. I'm just like, I'm bored of this. I don't need it. I don't like it. You think you're like gonna get me?

• 1:28:33Speaker 00

  You deserve more, right? I mean, it's.

• 1:28:34Rayna Greenberg?

  We're adults. Stop this.

• 1:28:35Speaker 00

  Yeah. I usually date older as well. So like, that's my, I'm like, I always feel like when it comes to just relationship, like I am what I am, and it's like, I'm probably the golden retriever boyfriend most of the time.

• 1:28:47Ashley Hesseltine?

  I can see that about you in the, in the best way. I mean, what everybody's.

• 1:28:50Rayna Greenberg?

  It's a good thing.

• 1:28:50Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, it's a good thing, yeah.

• 1:28:51Speaker 00

  Maybe more, even more of like an Australian shepherd I can be.

• 1:28:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 1:28:55Speaker 00

  Like, I'm not big. I'm not a guy.

• 1:28:58Ashley Hesseltine?

  I know. Look at your watch.

• 1:28:59Speaker 00

  I'm a little guy.

• 1:29:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  Did you borrow that from your girlfriend? Be honest. Wait, how would it?

• 1:29:03Speaker 00

  No, I'm doing this.

• 1:29:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  No. His feet don't touch the ground. But do you feel like those relationships did, like, help you grow up?

• 1:29:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, of course.

• 1:29:10Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:10Speaker 00

  You try to learn everything. I mean, like, the biggest difference I've learned in this relationship that I'm in right now.

• 1:29:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  Ooh, I'm sad.

• 1:29:18Speaker 00

  Is that I went into it being very intentional, where like, and I told her, like, straight up second date. I think I was just like, you know, I really like you. And what I have noticed in the past is like, every relationship that I've been in before, I've seen the, uh, the out or the exit, like, six months, whatever it be, like, ahead of time. So I kind of always had that in the back of my mind, because it was always something to do with like either my work, or just like, you know, I want to keep dating around or whatever.

• 1:29:50Ashley Hesseltine?

  Sure.

• 1:29:51Speaker 00

  But I always go, with this one, I'm gonna focus on giving a hundred percent effort and zero expectations. And that's, that's all I did, and I've never been happier.

• 1:30:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  How did she respond to that?

• 1:30:03Speaker 00

  She was like, do you want to order now?

• 1:30:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  She was like, let me wipe my vagina.

• 1:30:08Speaker 00

  She was.

• 1:30:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  I'm a little wet.

• 1:30:09Rayna Greenberg?

  You want me to suck your dick at this restaurant?

• 1:30:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:30:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  You know, that's really great to hear. Who doesn't want to hear that?

• 1:30:14Speaker 00

  My dick is out, and I'm just like, and whenever you want to start.

• 1:30:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's your performative.

• 1:30:19Rayna Greenberg?

  I'll take my present out.

• 1:30:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  He's like, I got this straight out of the performative handbook. It's in my tote.

• 1:30:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  I'm reading it.

• 1:30:28Speaker 00

  Wrote it down.

• 1:30:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  I am dying thinking about later that night and you're like, so where is my blowjob? And she's like, what do you mean? You're like, that's stuff I said.

• 1:30:34Rayna Greenberg?

  The speech.

• 1:30:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  Uh, the speech?

• 1:30:36Speaker 00

  Stuff I said. I, you didn't like it?

• 1:30:38Rayna Greenberg?

  Remember?

• 1:30:39Speaker 00

  Well, I, I was trying to do a joke the other day about like the guys who are like absent. They don't show up anymore. And I wanted to be like, guys, it's so easy now. All we have to do is show up. All you gotta do is show up. You could just show up, talk about like the Russian revolution or whatever you want for like an hour.

• 1:30:53Rayna Greenberg?

  Trees.

• 1:30:53Speaker 00

  Just treat her to dinner and then she's like, well, you gonna ask me about me? I'm like, oh, I'm sorry. I guess I thought I was the only guy that didn't cancel this week.

• 1:31:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  The bar's a hell.

• 1:31:02Speaker 00

  Keep it up. All right. I won't even let you blow me after.

• 1:31:04Ashley Hesseltine?

  I hate that you guys know.

• 1:31:06Speaker 00

  Oh, I, they don't know. I know.

• 1:31:08Rayna Greenberg?

  The guys have caught on.

• 1:31:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  That the bar is so low?

• 1:31:10Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, that's really great. And I'm sure that went over well.

• 1:31:14Speaker 00

  No, it didn't. Oh, oh, the first part. Yes.

• 1:31:16Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. And I think that's a way to, to know for men, women, whoever, that you're like, I'm not thinking about the out.

• 1:31:24Speaker 00

  You can't. That was always the downfall.

• 1:31:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 1:31:27Speaker 00

  Of every relationship I was in because I was always thinking in the back of my head, yeah, but this, this ain't it. Maybe I didn't subconsciously know it was it. And I definitely like, I would have moments in these relationships where I'd be like, this is awesome. Like I'm really into this, but like I,

• 1:31:42Speaker 00

  I'd always be like, yeah, but what happens four months from now when I gotta do this with comedy? Or I have to do this or I have to make this big move or?

• 1:31:50Rayna Greenberg?

  We move in together. Like when they ask me for the next steps.

• 1:31:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, I go, well, move in.

• 1:31:55Ashley Hesseltine?

  We talked about this early days with Jared Freed of the way that men are like, okay, but once I call her my girlfriend, then the what's next? It's a trip and then it's, we have to move in together and then we have to get married and then we have to have a baby. Like you.

• 1:32:07Rayna Greenberg?

  And it's like, I don't want to have a baby with you.

• 1:32:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  I can't. Yes. And the reason is like, I don't have a baby with you. Like you future trip so far down the road.

• 1:32:13Speaker 00

  That is true.

• 1:32:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  You feel like the train has left the station.

• 1:32:16Rayna Greenberg?

  But I think it's as we get older, you do it to ask those questions like three, four dates in. Do I want to have a baby with you? And I think some people are like, how could you answer that question four days in? And it's like, I, I just know.

• 1:32:26Speaker 00

  You know.

• 1:32:27Rayna Greenberg?

  I just know that I, I won't want to do that with you. So let's kind of like, let's dead it now.

• 1:32:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  And we are going to announce your girlfriend's pregnancy today on the show.

• 1:32:35Speaker 00

  Absolutely.

• 1:32:35Rayna Greenberg?

  We knew.

• 1:32:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  We're expecting.

• 1:32:37Speaker 00

  Artificial insemination. It's unbelievable. We're doing it with, uh, of all people Azul, um, Ashley's dog.

• 1:32:43Rayna Greenberg?

  The first dog baby.

• 1:32:44Speaker 00

  The first dog baby. Listen, we figure, you know, with technology nowadays, we'll have at least five shots.

• 1:32:50Ashley Hesseltine?

  How much did you pay for that? I haven't got my check yet.

• 1:32:58Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, congrats to you guys.

• 1:32:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's gonna be great.

• 1:33:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  This was fun. This was great. Is your full name Alec?

• 1:33:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I've been telling people it's short for Cornish.

• 1:33:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 1:33:09Rayna Greenberg?

  I don't get it.

• 1:33:10Speaker 00

  I mean, either. It's stupid.

• 1:33:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, it just explains.

• 1:33:14Rayna Greenberg?

  I've heard your name was Alex for a long time and I follow you on Instagram for years. It's tough not to say Alex. I mean, how often you get called Alex? Every day?

• 1:33:22Speaker 00

  Oh, it's well, you're using the Alec plural. It's Alex. So, so it's like, what am I gonna say about that?

• 1:33:30Rayna Greenberg?

  I think I thought it was that. Well, when I you I met you, I don't remember years ago I met you. I thought it was Alex.

• 1:33:36Speaker 00

  Big Al, dude.

• 1:33:37Rayna Greenberg?

  Let's end this podcast. It's almost four.

• 1:33:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, so you're touring.

• 1:33:43Speaker 00

  I'm touring all over, guys. Some of the cities included would be Portland, Seattle, Foggy London Town, Manchester, Edinburgh, Dublin, and New York City as well, as well as Charlotte, North Carolina, Wilmington, North Carolina.

• 1:33:56Rayna Greenberg?

  What's where can I get tickets? What's the website?

• 1:33:59Speaker 00

  Just go on my Instagram. It's Big Al Flynn. I mean, I got a lot of fun stuff on there. Usually it's just, you know, videos of my thigh tattoos from a real close angle.

• 1:34:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  With the hissing of a grill.

• 1:34:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, me, yeah, me putting a lot of meats on grills, talking to the crows outside.

• 1:34:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  Meaty thighs.

• 1:34:15Speaker 00

  Yeah. Screaming about late-stage capitalism.

• 1:34:19Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, you guys go to his Instagram and buy tickets to his shows.

• 1:34:22Speaker 00

  Shout out, shout out.

• 1:34:23Rayna Greenberg?

  See him in the UK.

• 1:34:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  What is that in October?

• 1:34:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:34:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 1:34:27Speaker 00

  I'm really excited for that.

• 1:34:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  All right, well, that's. Okay, and you guys can get tickets to our shows at girlsgottaeat.com.

• 1:34:34Speaker 00

  Sellout.

• 1:34:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  We are Girls Gotta Eat Podcast on Instagram and TikTok. I'm Ash Hess. Rain is Rayna Greenberg. Subscribe on YouTube and share this episode with a friend. Go see Alex tour.

• 1:34:45Speaker 00

  See, it's the possession.

• 1:34:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  Alex.

• 1:34:47Rayna Greenberg?

  I did it on purpose.

• 1:34:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  And we will see you Thursday.

• 1:34:50Rayna Greenberg?

  Have a good week, guys.