The F*ck Them Theory (When Let Them Doesn’t Cut It) with Keltie Knight

We are joined by our friend Keltie Knight, Emmy-award winning television personality, OG podcaster, and creator/author of The F*ck Them Theory – for when “let them” just won’t cut it. We discuss the meltdown that inspired her to write this book, the hard truth about achieving happiness, and why it’s ok to be messy, “try-hard,” and even a little petty. We chat about fake friends in Hollywood, body image and the “goal weight” that haunts her, why she got a face lift, and the trick everyone is using on the red carpet to look snatched. And we discuss her marriage and the ONE thing you need to look for in a partner above anything else. We are obsessed with this theory and and hope you feel empowered by the conversation! Before Keltie joins us, Rayna shares a throwback celeb sighting, and Ashley is spilling the tea on her upcoming move. Enjoy! Follow Keltie on Instagram @keltie, pre-order The F*ck Them Theory, and check out her tour dates. Follow us on Instagram @girlsgottaeatpodcast, Ashley @ashhess, and Rayna @rayna.greenberg. Visit girlsgottaeat.com for tickets to our upcoming live show and more. Thank you to our partners this week: Article: Get $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more at https//:article.com/gge. Noom: Start a GLP-1 program for $39 and have it delivered in as little as 7 days at https://noom.com BetterHelp: Get 10% off and visit https://betterhelp.com/gge to explore all payment options. ShopBop: Download the app and get 15% off your first app purchase with code GGE. Nutrafol: Get $10 off your first order and free shipping at https://nutrafol.com with code GGE10. AG1: Get a free immune support bundle plus a bottle of Vitamin D3K2 FREE with your first subscription of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro at https://drinkAG1.com/gge. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Rayna Greenberg?

  There is no top of happiness mountain. There is no, I get the guy, I get the job, I get the career, I get the top of the podcast charts, I get the money, I get the Birkin, and then all of a sudden I'm happy forever. That's not possible. So what do you do when you're up there and shit goes badly?

• 0:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  This podcast is a Dear Media production.

• 0:30Rayna Greenberg?

  Hi, guys.

• 0:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  Hi, guys.

• 0:31Rayna Greenberg?

  Welcome back to another episode of Girls Gotta Eat.

• 0:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  October. You're, are you good?

• 0:37Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 0:37Ashley Hesseltine?

  You just were staring into the space.

• 0:39Rayna Greenberg?

  I was like, October.

• 0:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's October. We're recording a little bit ahead of time, so we can be together in New York, but it's always my craziest month, and it's your special month, the month that we met. Is it our, it's on our 10 year anniversary?

• 0:52Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes, it's our nine year. It's our nine year friendship anniversary this week.

• 0:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  The nine year anniversary gift is pottery.

• 0:59Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay.

• 1:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  Ceramics.

• 1:01Rayna Greenberg?

  You just pulled that out of your mouth.

• 1:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, I looked it up the other day, because I was gonna get you something.

• 1:03Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, I like this. Let's do that. We've never done this all eight years, but let's do it.

• 1:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  I know, because I actually was watching Gone Girl the other day, and it was like the three year anniversary is wood or something. And I was like, oh, I wonder what the nine year is, because I'll get her something cute. And it was like pottery and ceramics.

• 1:20Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, so big week. And I'm gonna give you guys a life update on this episode. I was like, October's not gonna be that crazy for me. And here we are, it never fails, in my life, October is the craziest month of my life. Since I started working for myself, it's never been without fail. Last year, I shot my special, had my wedding, like, ended my tour. It was like unhinged. And I was like, I think I'm gonna have a little more relaxed October.

• 1:43Ashley Hesseltine?

  Ah, clown face. No.

• 1:45Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, so I will, we'll get into it.

• 1:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  How do you feel that our friendship has bloomed over nine years? You feel like you know me better than ever?

• 1:53Rayna Greenberg?

  No, I'm still getting to know you. Still discovering little things about you.

• 1:58Ashley Hesseltine?

  Can you imagine?

• 1:59Rayna Greenberg?

  How I changed, how I changed in nine years.

• 2:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  I know you better than you know yourself.

• 2:03Rayna Greenberg?

  Do you think I know you better than Shashank knows you?

• 2:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  Like, in different ways.

• 2:09Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay.

• 2:10Ashley Hesseltine?

  Sexually.

• 2:11Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 2:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, let's think of partners, and we'll get into it.

• 2:16Rayna Greenberg?

  We'll circle back to that. Thank you to Article. Get $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more at article.com/gge. And Noom, start a GLP1 program for $39 and have it delivered in as little as seven days at noom.com. And BetterHelp, get 10% off. And visit betterhelp.com/gge to explore all payment options.

• 2:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  And thank you to Shopop. Download the app and get 15% off your first app purchase with code GGE. And Nutriful, get $10 off your first order and free shipping at nutrafol.com with code GG10. And thank you to AG1. Get a free immune support bundle plus a bottle of vitamin D3K2 with your first subscription of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro at drinkag1.com/gge.

• 2:57Rayna Greenberg?

  Always a mouthful. Always a mouthful.

• 2:59Ashley Hesseltine?

  I saw D3K2, rolling off the tongue after five years.

• 3:03Rayna Greenberg?

  D3K2.

• 3:04Ashley Hesseltine?

  D3K2. You know who I saw downstairs? I was just gonna tell you, because I actually don't know if you care about this. So I was downstairs at our studio, and I saw the actress from Sweet Valley High, remember the twins, Cynthia Daniel and Brittany Daniel? Why are you looking at me like that?

• 3:19Rayna Greenberg?

  I don't know the show.

• 3:21Ashley Hesseltine?

  It was a book series when we were kids.

• 3:23Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, of course.

• 3:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  And then it became a show. In 1994, there was four seasons.

• 3:28Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, my gosh. Okay.

• 3:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  I read all the books.

• 3:31Rayna Greenberg?

  I feel like those were like the original influencer girlies.

• 3:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, my gosh. Yes.

• 3:38Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, wow.

• 3:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  That I saw her downstairs.

• 3:40Rayna Greenberg?

  And they were like on the cover of every like Seventeen Magazine, Y M. What a deep cut of the show, of the books, of course.

• 3:47Ashley Hesseltine?

  I saw me staring at her. I mean, she looks so beautiful and natural. She's like aged so beautifully.

• 3:52Rayna Greenberg?

  What else did they do?

• 3:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  I don't know. Have they done anything?

• 3:55Rayna Greenberg?

  50 years old. Look at them.

• 3:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  Looks gorgeous.

• 3:57Rayna Greenberg?

  Obsessed.

• 3:58Ashley Hesseltine?

  She, they kind of look like Ally Larter.

• 4:00Rayna Greenberg?

  I see it.

• 4:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 4:02Rayna Greenberg?

  It's just like a very.

• 4:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  Wait, hold on a second.

• 4:04Rayna Greenberg?

  What?

• 4:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  You're not even, do you know who Cynthia Daniel is married to?

• 4:08Rayna Greenberg?

  No.

• 4:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  You're not ready.

• 4:09Rayna Greenberg?

  She, I think she was their daughter. Who was she, who?

• 4:12Ashley Hesseltine?

  Cole Hauser.

• 4:13Rayna Greenberg?

  What?

• 4:15Ashley Hesseltine?

  30 years, Raina. You just saw Cole. Wait, which twin did you see? You don't know?

• 4:20Rayna Greenberg?

  Unclear.

• 4:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  So you might have just seen Cole Hauser's wife.

• 4:23Rayna Greenberg?

  That's crazy.

• 4:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  What are your hall passes?

• 4:24Rayna Greenberg?

  Cole Hauser is like my top, top. He's ginger. He's so big. Oh, I love him. Days and Confused. I've loved him since Days and Confused.

• 4:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  Look at them.

• 4:32Rayna Greenberg?

  That's crazy.

• 4:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  This is so crazy.

• 4:34Rayna Greenberg?

  I don't know why, like, I might have low key known this, but I don't think so.

• 4:38Ashley Hesseltine?

  Thank you for telling me this.

• 4:39Rayna Greenberg?

  Wow.

• 4:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  Wow.

• 4:41Rayna Greenberg?

  Who's the other one married to?

• 4:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  I wonder if Cole frequents the Maman downstairs.

• 4:45Rayna Greenberg?

  Could be.

• 4:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  She played Elizabeth, and then Brittany played Jessica Wakefield, who's her sexy husband.

• 4:50Rayna Greenberg?

  Thank you for looking this up.

• 4:51Ashley Hesseltine?

  He's sexy, whoever he is. Oh, my gosh.

• 4:54Rayna Greenberg?

  Just a guy?

• 4:55Ashley Hesseltine?

  Adam Tooney? Who is that?

• 4:58Rayna Greenberg?

  Unclear. I don't know who that is.

• 4:59Ashley Hesseltine?

  I mean, Cole Hauser was the original movie I saw him in was with your hall pass.

• 5:05Rayna Greenberg?

  Ben Affleck.

• 5:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  What, The Breakup?

• 5:07Rayna Greenberg?

  No.

• 5:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, Days and Confused.

• 5:09Rayna Greenberg?

  Days and Confused.

• 5:10Ashley Hesseltine?

  And also, while we're here.

• 5:12Rayna Greenberg?

  What?

• 5:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  You guys know I have said in passing that Jon Favreau is a hall pass of mine.

• 5:20Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 5:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  Jon Favreau from Pod Save America, political commentator, podcaster. For years, you guys, I thought it was the other Jon Favreau. And I was like, huh.

• 5:29Rayna Greenberg?

  So we put on The Breakup, one of my favorite movies of all time, in Saint-Tropez.

• 5:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  Like, we got home, we, it was, we put it on. We're like, let's watch a movie. Who doesn't want to watch The Breakup? And Jon Favreau comes on the screen in all his frumpy glory.

• 5:44Rayna Greenberg?

  Like swinger is Jon Favreau.

• 5:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, Raina was like, I can't believe that's your hall pass. And I lost my mind. That was the hardest, we laughed the whole trip.

• 6:00Rayna Greenberg?

  I say, all these years, you didn't know I meant Jon Favreau from Pod Save America?

• 6:04Ashley Hesseltine?

  I just was like, it's an interesting pick for her. And I mean, I just support her freak, okay? Fly that weird flag.

• 6:11Rayna Greenberg?

  And while we're here, we're gonna have Jon Favreau on.

• 6:15Ashley Hesseltine?

  It will be the first episode ever that Ashley co-hosts without me.

• 6:22Rayna Greenberg?

  He will be her co-host.

• 6:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  Do it solo.

• 6:24Rayna Greenberg?

  Shashank, do not listen to this.

• 6:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  Don't watch it.

• 6:27Rayna Greenberg?

  I felt like I was like booking your affair, because I was like booking the studio space for you guys to do it without me.

• 6:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  We'll talk about it more on the intro of that episode in a couple of weeks, and we'll be talking about the midterms, but we just wanted to tease it here now. So fun sighting.

• 6:42Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, so what's going on with big news out of your camp?

• 6:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes. Okay, so I rent this home in LA that I love, and I have lived in this home in Santa Monica since March of 2024, so two and a half years. And we had a normal lease going into it, and we then, the homeowner and I decided to do a flexible lease. So it's like a 60 day out clause, which I actually wouldn't recommend if you're ever gonna do month to month, do 30. But anyway, and she had said, you can live here as long as you want. I have no plans to sell it or move back in. And so that really was part of the decision when we've decided to stay in LA, which I think I've mentioned before. Like, we're just not, we took it off the table. I felt like if we can't decide, then it's just not the right time if we're this confused. And one of the reasons was, like, I love

• 7:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  our house, we have a flexible lease, like, we're not locked in, we don't have to sign another lease, like, we can move or do whatever anytime we want, really. And that was a part of our decision making process. And as we record, this will be a little bit dated, but last week, she emails that she's gonna be selling the house, and gives this 60 day notice, and like, you know, you have to be out in 60 days. And Raina was livid, I will say. It's not like it's year one or even two of my lease. Like, it's not like she pulled the rug out from under us, where we had a traditional lease, which I don't, not quite sure you can even do. But we did have this flexible out clause on either side. I could give her 60 days, she could give me. And she told me as soon as she made the decision, because I did just kind of ask, you know, when I was like, let me know if anything

• 8:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  changes, because we really want to stay in this house. Because I was spiraling. Like, what do we do now? We had not committed to staying in LA for another year. I don't want to sign another year lease. And even to sign another year lease to move for one year is so daunting and stressful, and to get our home set up again. I mean, we have so much stuff.

• 8:30Rayna Greenberg?

  I mean, I think most people want to know, like, a six month runway of, are you moving? I mean, I knew I was moving to New York. It took me a year. Like, you could just wake up tomorrow and move if you want to. But like, mentally, it is a lot to prepare to move, to like, figure out, like, what am I keeping? What am I getting rid of? Who is moving us? What do the dates look like? It's really stressful.

• 8:50Ashley Hesseltine?

  Do we want to stay in this neighborhood? You know, Shashank and I have a large-ish home with all of our things. You know, we've, like, a basement full of stuff, a two car garage. Like, we just have a lot of stuff. This is mine and his stuff, our entire lives are in this home. You know, it's gonna be a fucking bitch to move. So I was like, I don't know what to do. I don't feel like, at this point, this, what we decided was not to sign another year lease in LA. I was like, okay, we'll put our stuff in storage. Maybe we'll rent a really dope Airbnb that has like a flexible three to six month, and we'll have some flexibility. And then I was like, I don't really want to do that. I wasn't really seeing anything that spoke to me. Like, and if you really find something you love, it's gonna be very expensive, way more than you'd pay a month's rent.

• 9:27Rayna Greenberg?

  My one bedroom house in Venice that I rented on Airbnb for like three months was the same price as my rent.

• 9:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  Exactly that. Exactly that.

• 9:35Rayna Greenberg?

  A three bedroom house.

• 9:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  Totally different type of pricing structure, way more escalated. So then I was like, okay, let me just get on Zillow and see what's up. This is that night, like, that this happened.

• 9:45Rayna Greenberg?

  I was so pissed.

• 9:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  I was like, let me check it out. Let's, let me get on Zillow. And I found this house that I was like, okay, if we could live in this house, if we could move into our dream home. Then we could do that for a year. Like, we love our house now, but it's not giving like, dream home. I can't believe we get to live here. You know, like, it's a little older and we, again, we've really, really loved it, but it's not like a wow, that's our fucking house kind of thing. And I don't think I've really had that experience. And so that's what I came across. I was like, could this happen? I messaged this guy on Zillow 11:00 PM. And before I go to bed, I message him again. Started a double message. I'm just really interested and I wanna, you know, I wanna talk. The next morning, he hasn't messaged me back. And it was just a guy with a phone number. It wasn't, he's, it's the owner selling this by himself. Just raw dog,

• 10:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  no third party, which I, I love. And Shashank was like, was his number? The next morning, I was like, he hasn't written me back. Shashank was like, just call him. Is his number there? I was like, I'm calling him. I call him. He answers. He's like, hello? I'm like, hi, this is Ashley from Zillow. And I just wanted to see if I could see this house. And he's like, the tenant's moving out today. I'm getting it cleaned and turned over. I'd love to show it to you tomorrow. I was like, I can't see it tomorrow. I'm flying out at seven in the morning. And I was like, I don't care what it looks like. I just wanna get a feel for it. My husband are very interested in this house. And he lets me come over at 7:00 PM that night. I have to fly out at 7:00 AM. I have to deal with the dogs, the whole thing. And I go over there. And I'm like, this is the house. Shashank's out of town already. He didn't get to see it. But I was like, we have to live here. And Shashank was like, I trust you. And so, we

• 11:12Ashley Hesseltine?

  apply the next day. Monday, as we record, this was yesterday, he calls me and he's like, I want to approve you living in the house. And he's so cool and so chill. Like, I think that's even part of why we're so excited about it, too. Like, he's just wonderful. He's like, I've never raised the rent on this house. I don't plan to. I'm never selling it. You can live here forever. He only asked for one month's security in LA. They can ask for two. Like, he's just chill and easy. And so, we are moving in mid-October. Like, as we record, like, we're moving in like, three weeks. And I, we have not started anything. I feel like, I haven't booked a move yet. As we record, I will do it today. I will get in touch and I will secure the date. But like, I am absolutely freaking out. And it will be nice to have a

• 11:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  partner to do this with. Like, Shashank and I haven't done this together. Like, he didn't live in LA when I moved before. And then he moved in. But like, I feel like I could, I'm not strong enough to do this alone. Even with like, hiring people to do a full pack, full move, I, it's still so, so daunting.

• 12:07Rayna Greenberg?

  I feel like it is so me doing it by myself. It's just like, I don't even want anybody in my space slowing me down. I've moved four or five times in the last five years. But I also, I spend the money to have somebody do a full pack for me. Like, you have to really, you'll take a lot to like charities. I think you'll like, really like that. Also, just like, emptying out your space and donating stuff. I think you'll like, like doing that. And I don't know, I just feel like I'm so like regimented and I got it down. And it does just feel so exciting to like redecorate a new space. But yeah, listen, it's nice to have a partner to do it with you. I'm in a man that can like do shit.

• 12:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  I mean, it was the only way I was gonna feel okay about this. Like, I just felt like this upended our life in a completely unexpected way. And, you know, around the holidays and I had travel planned. And like, I, I feel so sorry. I'm not gonna come to London now. And this is why. And I am really, really sorry to you guys. Again, it's not my show, it's Raina's show. But I know you guys would like to see me there and to see both of us there. And Raina will be incredible, obviously. But I'm not gonna be there. If you're doing the math, you're like, wait, how are you gonna move in mid-October? And then this is why I have to move now. And otherwise, I would be there. So I did just wanna apologize to you guys. And, you know, I'll be there in spirit. Raina will call me. I'll be up. And we're gonna make this happen. And I, I feel really excited and to find a house that I was

• 13:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  like, this is where I want to spend the next year and accomplish some things I have on my list. And it's gonna feel like that type of dream home, tranquil, amazing, brand new, smart everything, insane house. Like,

• 13:36Rayna Greenberg?

  I'll, I'll have a space to stay there. I can finally tell other people that they can stay there.

• 13:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  Every time somebody mentions going to LA, I'll suggest they can stay at your house.

• 13:44Rayna Greenberg?

  Absolutely not. They can stay at your house. Well, this was actually pretty crazy. Also, I'll give you guys an update on that. But I have to tell you, no part of me for one second thought that I was about to get a text that said, this is a sign. This is a sign. We're gonna move to New York. There was no part of me that anticipated that text message.

• 14:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  Not, okay.

• 14:05Rayna Greenberg?

  I know you don't wanna live here in the winter. And so, I, and I have just made peace with it. You don't wanna live here. I just, no piece of me thinks you wanna live here. For like, maybe like, a millisecond, I was like, maybe she'll send me a, this is just a sign. But like, I think if you wanted to move here, you would've moved here during nice weather in August, you would've done it.

• 14:24Ashley Hesseltine?

  I wonder what would've happened if this happened in June or July. I think you would've moved here. I think I would've seen it as a sign when we were on the fence and we were really deciding. And for a moment there, we were like, we're moving to New York in August. Like, that's what we thought. I think we would've. And I, I think this is the right move for us now. And we're just really excited. And this is our house era. This, like, I, I don't, I haven't had this. Like, where I'm just like, it's about the house. You know, it's, the neighborhood's great. It's not my absolute dream. But I, it's, we just are really excited about the house.

• 14:57Rayna Greenberg?

  I mean, besides you, the only thing that kept me in LA was my house. It is just, it feels so nice to have something of your own that's special and beautiful. And you're like, I've worked my entire life for this. I mean, I grew up in a townhouse. My dad had apartments. I grew up in a small townhouse. Like, to have a house was the first time I ever had anything like that.

• 15:16Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 15:17Rayna Greenberg?

  Um, it was so crazy, though. So I don't wanna jinx it. But the same, I've been trying to sell my house. I finally, hopefully did it. And I went into escrow that morning.

• 15:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  Insane.

• 15:27Rayna Greenberg?

  The day that you got that email. And I was like, I, my house, you were like, if I could just find something that was like furnished. I'm like, my house is furnished. I left it partially furnished, if you're curious, because I go back there a lot. And while I'm showing it, I have a bedroom that's furnished. And I have a couple of couches. So, like,

• 15:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  Insane. The timing was insane.

• 15:43Rayna Greenberg?

  I couldn't fucking believe it. I mean, honestly, the house might fall out of escrow. I can't, I don't trust it. I have, yesterday was the appraisal and today is the inspection. And I had two inspections two years ago when I bought the house. It was good. I haven't had any real problems with the house. But I don't know about these buyers. You know, anybody can invent a reason for anything. So we'll see. Okay. By this, by the time this comes out, I may have sold the house.

• 16:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yay.

• 16:06Rayna Greenberg?

  I hope so.

• 16:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  Big move.

• 16:07Rayna Greenberg?

  And so I was like, really getting roasted by these moving companies. Because like, I reached out to a couple of moving companies to be like, do you wanna help me move? And all three of them wrote me back. I thought you moved from LA to New York in June. All of them. Because I had hit them up in June also.

• 16:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  That is so funny that they even like ran the tape on that.

• 16:24Rayna Greenberg?

  All three of them. Because they went, all three of them, smartly, went to my Instagram and saw that I posted that I moved. And so, because they wanna see if you worked with a moving company recently.

• 16:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's so funny. They're like, actually, you have.

• 16:35Rayna Greenberg?

  And the one that I worked with goes, didn't we just move?

• 16:38Ashley Hesseltine?

  Didn't we just move you?

• 16:39Rayna Greenberg?

  Not you again. It's not that much stuff. It is like, 30 items. And they're gonna go straight into a storage unit. Yeah. Um, but all of them are roasting me. I was like, I thought you just moved. Don't ask questions. We're setting a fucking business. Take my money and leave me alone.

• 16:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  None, yeah, business.

• 16:54Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah. Don't worry about this. It doesn't involve you. Come get my shit.

• 16:58Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. So that's what's happening. And we are excited. And it feels like this is the right move. And then we'll reassess next year. Listen, I love LA and I would live there forever. But it's not near our, our families. And I feel like you and I've navigated this really well. But I miss my family. And Shashank does as well. And so, we'll see. I don't see a world in which that's where we live forever. But we just don't know how much longer.

• 17:27Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 17:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  And, you know, if he were to get a job that offered him more flexibility, we would just be on the East Coast more. And, you know, maybe one day, we would have an apartment in New York or Boston or something, or a house in Delaware. I don't know. Whatever. We'll see. But that's what's happening now. And I'm excited. And I will not be living in Raina's house. I posted a little thing, like, maybe our new house on one of our like, date night, what we talked about slides. And people are like, moving to Raina's house. I'm like, can't afford it.

• 17:52Rayna Greenberg?

  I can't afford it.

• 17:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  I actually think what you would charge for rent, I think was outside of my budget.

• 17:57Rayna Greenberg?

  Hey, you know, hot take, I don't know.

• 17:59Ashley Hesseltine?

  You might've worked with me on it. But I didn't wanna do that.

• 18:01Rayna Greenberg?

  It's expensive.

• 18:02Ashley Hesseltine?

  I know what your mortgage is. And my top was a little less. And I didn't wanna do that with you.

• 18:07Rayna Greenberg?

  I mean, on top of that, there's like, insurance and homeowner's fees and all that. And I honestly like,

• 18:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  For your best friend to be living in your house.

• 18:13Rayna Greenberg?

  I'm your landlord.

• 18:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  And you're losing money.

• 18:14Rayna Greenberg?

  Finally, I'm your boss.

• 18:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  I'm dead. No, I just don't think that's what I would've wanted. That I'm your boss.

• 18:21Rayna Greenberg?

  But I pay on time. So.

• 18:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's just so funny to me to think about you having sex in my house.

• 18:27Rayna Greenberg?

  I don't think about it.

• 18:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, hopefully this family fucking takes this house. Because I am hemorrhaging money.

• 18:33Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 18:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  But the way I think about, I mean, I will just break even, basically. I bought the house two years ago. I put a little bit of money into renovating it. You can't flip a house for a ton of money after two years. There's all kinds of capital gains taxes. So I will hopefully just break even and be made whole again. And maybe I would buy again someday. I actually don't know. It's not my dream scenario to own property. I am envious that like, you can just leave anytime you want. And it's not your fucking problem. I mean, I am literally in hell. Like, I just wanna like, offload this cost. And I will be made whole again, which is the only way that I can like, stomach it and get through the day.

• 19:07Speaker 02

  Big month for property in this household.

• 19:10Rayna Greenberg?

  All right. Well, speaking of moving, furnishing your space. So Buzz Buzz Article.

• 19:15Speaker 02

  Hello.

• 19:15Rayna Greenberg?

  Did you know that Article could make it effortless for you to create a stylish, long lasting home at an unbeatable price?

• 19:20Speaker 02

  I did know that. So let's talk.

• 19:22Rayna Greenberg?

  Hey, Article.

• 19:23Speaker 02

  Longtime friend of the pod. I'm gonna get a new couch. So just putting that out there to anybody listening.

• 19:30Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, specifically Article.

• 19:31Speaker 02

  Specifically Article.

• 19:33Rayna Greenberg?

  But I love what they do. I love their styles. They have like a curated range of mid-century modern coastal Scandi inspired pieces. When I was living in LA, I lived in Venice, I lived at the beach. So I like something a little more boho and I used them for that. But now in New York, I like something that's like, you know, like a mix of stuff, mid-century modern, et cetera. So it is great for that. I mean, truly whatever room in your house you want. And they make it really easy to kind of mix and match the pieces. If you're not sure how to decorate, you can check out their website. Also, their Instagram is great, just to see how people paired different pieces of furniture together. And I mean, if you're just thinking about the quality and the price, they really have it made. So the packaging is great. Wait and feel the product. It comes mostly assembled. I've owned quite a few things and they always hold up really well. And yeah, I mean, if we're talking couches,

• 20:15Rayna Greenberg?

  I love that they have a lot of stuff in different fabrics. They have boucle, they have velvet, they have leather, et cetera, et cetera. I like this timber leather sofa. I'm really into leather sofas now that I live in New York.

• 20:25Speaker 02

  I want a green sofa. So we need a dark color because of the dogs. And I just this gray couch. I love this couch. I love how giant it was that I have. Now you guys have seen it at this point. If you follow me, it's in so many photos, especially because of the dogs. But like in this house, it's just got a different vibe and that's what I'm looking for. I want like a green couch and like two boucle white chairs.

• 20:47Rayna Greenberg?

  Love it. Okay. They have all that available for you with fast, affordable shipping and assembly. They also have support when you need it. Ashley and I love their support. We love working with companies that are just like available to you seven days a week. And they're kind and they offer like real information and they have a 30 day satisfaction guarantee. So you can shop with confidence. And if you're not completely in love with your furniture, you can easily return it. Article is offering our listeners $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more. To claim, visit article.com/gge and the discount will be automatically applied at checkout. That's article.com/gge for $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more.

• 21:19Speaker 02

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• 22:01Speaker 02

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• 22:46Speaker 02

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• 23:03Rayna Greenberg?

  And this episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. There are plenty of reasons we put off getting support. And for a lot of people, cost is one of them. With BetterHelp, insurance options may now be available nationwide with an average copay for eligible members of just $23 per session. And while we're reconsidering old assumptions, maybe there are a few others worth questioning too. So, you know, women inherit a lot of like assumptions and unwritten rules. And I think that a lot of people, just this weighs on us of, you know, you should be this place in your career by now. You should have a serious relationship or a marriage right now. You should have children by now. You should have children in general. And these are all things that I think are constantly swirling women's heads. We just, I mean, no one juggles more than women. And so many things could have, should have, would have, just cards flying through your head.

• 23:47Rayna Greenberg?

  Therapy can really help with those things and just help you deescalate the anxiety of all these situations of what society tells you you're supposed to be. And if you're having those thoughts, therapy really can help. If you've been waiting to start therapy, BetterHelp works with more than 125 health plan networks and eligible members have an average copay of just $23 per session with insurance. Don't have insurance or don't live in the United States, you can still get 10% off your first month. Visit betterhelp.com/gge to explore your payment options. That's better H E L P dot com slash G G E.

• 24:17Speaker 02

  Okay, let's get into it.

• 24:19Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, guys, we are very excited to welcome our guest today. She is a three time Emmy award winning TV personality, a New York Times bestselling author and co-creator and host of the wildly successful Lady Gang podcast. You've seen her live from the red carpet at the Oscars, the Emmys, the Met Gala, the Grammys and the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade. Her new book, The Fuck Them Theory, Self-Help For People Who Are Done Being The Bigger Person, comes out in November. We are so excited to welcome Kelsey Knight.

• 24:44Speaker 02

  My girls.

• 24:45Rayna Greenberg?

  This is so fun.

• 24:46Speaker 02

  Like honestly, we've been already talking for 30 minutes before the camera started because I just like, I just love you. And I feel like we're sisters and we came up together. And you guys were like front row seat to my mental breakdown at Lady World last year. So honestly, you know, because you're like, wait, should we go on? It's raining. We don't know. And I'm in the corner crying in an alligator costume. Like so many thoughts.

• 25:07Rayna Greenberg?

  I forgot she's also a festival organizer. I mean, I have to tell you.

• 25:10Speaker 02

  Festival organizer.

• 25:11Rayna Greenberg?

  I write the intro to every single guest I have for almost 10 years. Yours was like hard to narrow down. Like yours is so impressive. And we'll talk about your book. And you talk about like having imposter syndrome. And I'm like, this is the most impressive person. The stuff that you have done is crazy.

• 25:25Speaker 02

  But I do have to say, in the book, you do talk about the meltdown at Lady World. Lady World. Yeah, I'm like Lady Gang, Lady World. And your husband. And it's just like the alligator suit and all the things. I'm like, are we going to get mentioned? Like for a minute, I was like, what if we get mentioned in this book? I was like, I think we would have known about it.

• 25:40Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, let's tell the story. It was kind of crazy.

• 25:42Speaker 02

  Let's tell from your perspective and were you feeling like we have put so much work into this? And then, oh my gosh, it's raining and.

• 25:51Rayna Greenberg?

  And like what Lady World is.

• 25:52Speaker 02

  Okay, so I had the most spectacular meltdowny fall of last year. And I think most women out there, you know, they're like, we saw your, you're like melting down about your wedding or like your baby or your postpartum. But like for me, it's always career stuff, which is like highly unrelatable, but also like, okay. So we had the Lady World Festival and what happened was Lady World Festival and the last episodes ever of E-News were the same week. So E-News got canceled. We were hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt on the Lady World Festival. This was a podcast we put on by Lady Gang. We brought all kinds of podcasters and music. And it was so epic and it was just like so much more work than we could have imagined. And because it was so much work and I was like having all this stuff going in my life, I was self-medicating

• 26:36Speaker 02

  in the most spectacularly Hollywood way where I got to a point where I, I tried to be woo woo where I'm like, I'm going to meditate and do yoga. And then I just needed the easy way out. So I was taking GLP ones because someone had said I was fat at the Emmys. And I was like, well, I won't be that girl. And then on top of that, I was drinking like a crazy person. And then I was taking Xanax and antidepressants and then Ambien to sleep and gabapentin, just to like take the edge off.

• 27:04Rayna Greenberg?

  So this is very Hollywood of you, actually.

• 27:06Speaker 02

  This was like eight months leading up to the festival. So I was not like doing any of the things that would normally keep me sane in Hollywood. Like all the Pilates reformer, meditation, therapy, out the window. I was like, I'm gonna, you know, so to the point where like we went down for a site visit for Lady World. I talk about this in the book and I got wasted in front of my boss, like the Lady World boss and his 11 year old daughter at a dinner. Puked all the way home on my Chanel shoes. My assistant and the girls in Lady Gang had to undress me in the bed. The next morning I'm like pulling puke out of the braided Chanel sandals.

• 27:46Speaker 02

  Like I just was the opposite of like that. When you're like, oh, it was so hard to make a thing. You're so, I'm like, no, I'm messy, messy, messy. So we got to Lady World. I'm so nervous about it. We've planned this for like five years. This is a dream. And the girls that came were like such lifers. And I was like, I want this to be amazing. And then we just see the fucking black storm cloud coming of Destin, which hasn't had rain in seven years. It's the most beautiful beach of all. Do we need a rain contingency? Of course not. It never rains in Destin. We're in the bubble, whatever it's called. I'm like, oh, okay.

• 28:22Rayna Greenberg?

  And just so people know, this is an outdoor, kind of like music festival venue.

• 28:26Speaker 02

  Like a mini Coachella. We see this black cloud rolling towards us while we're on, doing our set. And I'm like, no, there wouldn't be a thunderstorm in Destin on day one of the festival.

• 28:38Rayna Greenberg?

  In paradise.

• 28:39Speaker 02

  In paradise. It starts pouring rain. You guys are backstage. We're like, are we going to send them on? Are they going to like get electrocuted? I'm like, send them on.

• 28:47Rayna Greenberg?

  It was so much rain and the audience was sitting there with ponchos, running to save their lives. I mean, it was a thunderstorm like I've never seen outside before.

• 28:54Speaker 02

  But then they stayed. It was so beautiful. I have like this alligator costume because I was like making fun of like the alligators in Florida. And I'm out and we're singing like, feel the rain on your skin. I'm crying. I'm like melting down. I'm like sweating out gabapentin. Like it was just such.

• 29:12Ashley Hesseltine?

  Fucking disaster.

• 29:12Rayna Greenberg?

  There were people on the stage with brooms just pushing the water off the stage.

• 29:15Ashley Hesseltine?

  For the water.

• 29:16Rayna Greenberg?

  And Ashley and I were supposed to go on next and I was like, I don't know what we're gonna do.

• 29:19Ashley Hesseltine?

  There was a little bit, we went on, it was rainy, but we went, it was like, it cleared up a little.

• 29:24Speaker 02

  You know what, we talk about this actually all the time. And at postmortem, when I got my shit together and could like really take this in. You girls are real ones. Like, I know your audience knows this and you, you know, there's a reason you're so successful in what you guys do. But like, you're just real, like, I hate the girls, girl thing, but like, there are people who would get out there and be like, I'm not doing it. The audience is not warm, like, it's fucking raining, this is not safe, or like, whatever, just being like, mm, no. And you guys were like, okay, well, yeah, half the audience left because it's a thunderstorm, but there's like, a thousand girls out there that are in ponchos and they wanna see us, like, probably the worst show of your life, but you guys did it and it was so fun and like, you're just,

• 30:09Speaker 02

  you're really down to like, be those girls and I, I will say of all the horrible shit that has led me to meltdowns in Hollywood, every once in a while, there's like a bright light like you guys and you really, I'm like, okay, there is good karma.

• 30:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, Keltie, you're, I just wanna say to you that you were such a real one, but you really do like walk the walk and like lift other people up and would genuinely want to see other people succeed, other women succeed, and I think we have not been in Hollywood, like, but we're in entertainment.

• 30:41Speaker 02

  You're Hollywood adjacent.

• 30:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, and we've seen it all. We've seen people like, that, you know, you think you're friends and then they get famous and they don't text you back and, you know, we've kind of seen it all and I texted you and I was like, can I come on Lady Gang to promote my special? And you were like, yeah, absolutely, like, we're super busy, but we'll make it work and that's just how you are. Like, I don't know, I think you are just such a genuine person.

• 31:04Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 31:04Ashley Hesseltine?

  Cause I think it's hard to find. Like, you don't always know. We talk about this all the time.

• 31:09Rayna Greenberg?

  My brother said to me, people's number one question is, are Ashley and Miranda really like that in real, in real life?

• 31:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:14Rayna Greenberg?

  Do they like walk the walk? Do they? And he's like, it's so funny, cause I'm like, she's exactly what you hear on the podcast. And I think that's important because you follow so many people and then sometimes you meet your heroes and you're like, oh, they're not really like that.

• 31:24Speaker 02

  And I think it's a real heartbreak when you learn it. And it's also so strange to watch people learn it for the first time. Like, everyone's like, oh my god, I can't, like, especially like now at this point in my career. I've watched so many, my old boss at Entertainment Tonight, when I first got hired, she said to me, baby girl, we have the best job in the world because stars come and go, but we'll always be here. And I was like, oh, that's so dark, but it's true. Like, I've watched so many it girls come and then go and come and go and, you know, it's like, oh, this is a ruthless business and, but everything is ruthless. Womanhood is ruthless.

• 32:04Speaker 02

  Like, it doesn't matter if you're in Hollywood or you're like, you work at Google, like, people are shitty.

• 32:10Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 32:10Speaker 02

  You know?

• 32:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, that's the bottom line. Womanhood is ruthless. That's your next book.

• 32:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:16Rayna Greenberg?

  There will be no more books.

• 32:17Speaker 02

  Oh, I'm gonna ride off into the sunset, babe.

• 32:19Rayna Greenberg?

  Have you tapped out?

• 32:20Speaker 02

  No, I'm like, the gabapen went in the trash and started my career with this book. Like, I think, no one's gonna call me back. I'm literally calling out Andy Cohen in the book.

• 32:27Rayna Greenberg?

  I wanna gas you up. I truly like, Ashley suggested having the show. I was like, absolutely, you sent us the book and I was like pumping my fist in the air, like reading the intro to this book.

• 32:37Ashley Hesseltine?

  So good.

• 32:37Rayna Greenberg?

  Like, it's sort of the antithesis to let them. And we've had Mel Robbins on the show and we loved her in that episode and if you take advice that's positive from that, then that's great. But this is sort of the antithesis to that. And I was just like, fuck yeah, I love listening to somebody talk like this. Like, I'm, I'm very excited for people to get this in their hands. You did a great job. So tell us about the inspo.

• 32:56Speaker 02

  Okay, so the, can I swear?

• 32:59Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 33:00Speaker 02

  The fuck them theory is obviously a play on words.

• 33:03Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 33:04Speaker 02

  Let them is incredible. And let me tell you, I've done all of it. I've let them, I've girl washed your face. I have thought like a monk, Jay Shetty style. I paid $600 to be VIP at Oprah's Love Your Best Life Tour at the Forum in LA because I was like, I wanna live my best life, Oprah. Like, I am very a self-help girly. I've done all the therapies. I've like, held at the moon, I charge my crystals, I tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, so I'm in my body. Like, I've done all of it. And there is a certain hole in the self-help world, which is for when you're letting them and then all the unfinished business is rotting your soul.

• 33:40Rayna Greenberg?

  Hmm.

• 33:41Speaker 02

  What do I do with that heartbreak? What do I do with the rejection? Like, I can't just, I'm not cool enough to just be like, let them. I know you're supposed to let me, Mel. I know what you're like. All the people in the comments are like, I know, but did you really read the book? Because after you let me. Yeah, I know, I let me.

• 33:58Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 33:58Speaker 02

  Okay, but no. Some of us, I realize like, oh, what is my real way to help myself? And it is taking the breakdowns, the stress, the rejection, the heartbreak and using it as fuel. There is no top of happiness mountain. There is no, I get the guy, I get the job, I get the career, I get the top of the podcast charts, I get the money, I get the Birkin, and then all of a sudden I'm happy forever. That's not possible. So what do you do when you're up there and shit goes badly? You have to keep reinventing, you have to keep being hungry. And I just think it's like, what do you do while your life is falling apart?

• 34:32Rayna Greenberg?

  Hmm.

• 34:33Speaker 02

  And that is what this is all about. It's about how to just be messy.

• 34:38Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 34:38Speaker 02

  And have permission to be messy and have it never figured out. And I like a little revenge, I like a little spite, but I also like figuring out how to make your life work for you.

• 34:49Rayna Greenberg?

  I love this speech and honestly, like, I took some things from Let Them, but like, you know, the, the idea, not to keep shitting on us, but like, if somebody wants to leave you, let them. And it's like, yeah, but this hurts. So like, now what? If somebody wants to doubt me, fine, let them. I don't fucking care. You can doubt me and then watch me. But there's like, this feeling of like, then what?

• 35:06Speaker 02

  Well, I did a bunch of studying, what, someone in the review said, this is so well researched, the book. And I was like, oh my god, so smart.

• 35:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's a great compliment.

• 35:14Speaker 02

  Thank you so much. I did do a lot of research and what I found, and Dr. Keltie, for a second, let me just, is that unfinished business truly rots your soul and your brain. Because your brain, the neural pathways in your brain, they don't know the difference between something that has happened and something you're just thinking about constantly.

• 35:31Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 35:31Speaker 02

  So when you have that horrible breakup, or you have this horrible rejection in your life, or something doesn't go that way and you're spiraling in the shower, you can't sleep at night and you're thinking, all those unfinished conversations and all the things that you wish you would have said, that actually is like ruining your life. And so, you have to put that somewhere.

• 35:49Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 35:49Speaker 02

  And so instead of just putting it into, I'm thinking about Doug forever in the shower and all the things he did to me, well, what if we like do some personal motive writing, burn that shit and then turn that heartbreak into some power?

• 36:03Rayna Greenberg?

  Mm-hmm.

• 36:04Speaker 02

  And using that rage to be like, okay, well, I'm gonna go live my best life.

• 36:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  Do something. And if that's the book, there's like kind of exercises and different things to guide you.

• 36:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, I just had something happen to me in Hollywood. I, I pissed someone off and I found out that they were mad at me. And I was like, I guess I could just let them think I'm a dick forever, but instead I wrote a three-page handwritten note with a wax seal on it and I had it delivered to their house with flowers. Not every time,

• 36:32Speaker 02

  not everything is about being an asshole. Like, I was wrong, I need to apologize. And like, I'll probably never hear from that person. They'll, they're never gonna call me and be like, it's okay, I wasn't that mad. But like, it's off my plate.

• 36:44Rayna Greenberg?

  Mm-hmm. You go to sleep at night and know that you at least tried to make it better.

• 36:47Speaker 02

  I came outside of the street clean.

• 36:50Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, right, and then you were able to release it.

• 36:52Speaker 02

  Bye.

• 36:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  Right? I saw this TikTok, did you send it to me? About the don't let them theory. Just like, don't let them.

• 36:59Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, I said that I'm so jealous we didn't come up with, don't let them.

• 37:03Speaker 02

  No, I wish I had titled the book, Don't Let Them. There'd be a lot less red tape.

• 37:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  Right, I know.

• 37:07Speaker 02

  You know what I mean?

• 37:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, that's, but I mean, I don't know, she might, so somebody might've come after you and been like, this is so clearly a parody.

• 37:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  You know?

• 37:14Rayna Greenberg?

  Right, right, right. Yeah, but I just, I love this.

• 37:17Speaker 02

  No, don't let them.

• 37:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  And you're just so honest and vulnerable about who you are. And again, embracing the messiness and I love when you talk about what people call you try hard. You're like, yeah, I try hard. Like, I, I feel like I've really looked up to you and like, effort is cool.

• 37:36Speaker 02

  I can't decide exactly what Hollywood person like really ruined it for the try hard girls. Cause there was a moment we were girl bossing and it was cool to try and everyone was building their companies and wearing a tie and like making to-do lists. And then all of a sudden, it became like Nepo baby, we're smoking cigarettes again, we have effortless slick backs.

• 37:57Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 37:57Speaker 02

  Like, I,

• 37:58Rayna Greenberg?

  We'll see how, don't try and lean back. We'll see how that ages in 10 years.

• 38:02Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. But just in general, you're like, I work really hard. What's wrong with effort?

• 38:08Speaker 02

  It's so weird.

• 38:09Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah. Well, you have this chapter in the book, like, fuck making it look effortless or something like that. And even just the, the title reminded me of motherhood and let like, for so long, women have just been sold this idea that they just have to act like they're fine and that postpartum doesn't exist and that they're not like having like soul-crushing relationships with their body and their mind and how do I become a mom now? But let me look like I'm happy and everything is great and I'm perfect at this. And I read that title and I was like, I think people are gonna really, like, mothers are gonna take a lot from them.

• 38:37Speaker 02

  Thank you. Someone without a uterus, that is so nice to hear. Like, you know, I got my uterus taken out, so I,

• 38:43Ashley Hesseltine?

  I guess I,

• 38:44Speaker 02

  you didn't know that.

• 38:44Ashley Hesseltine?

  I don't have, I don't have, I had a hysterectomy.

• 38:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, this sounds.

• 38:48Rayna Greenberg?

  Familiar.

• 38:48Speaker 02

  It's fine. I think you're right. I hate, I really hate the idea of like, it's not supposed to be a lot of work. That's why I've been like, what I love about you guys too is like, being so open about the shit we're doing to our faces, the shit we're doing to our bodies, the stuff that we have to do in order to be successful in like, in our lives and careers. Like, I just think going behind the curtain and not just being like, oh, I just woke up and it just all came together and here I am.

• 39:14Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, well, let's talk about body and look stuff. So you have fuck your goal weight.

• 39:19Speaker 02

  I think there's nine chapters, yes.

• 39:20Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah. And even body, yes, but also face, like all the things. I mean, do you want to just share a little bit about your, your journey?

• 39:28Speaker 02

  Your face journey? So long. And like up the body truths, I really like that you say in the book. Yeah.

• 39:33Rayna Greenberg?

  It's just acceptance neutrality.

• 39:35Speaker 02

  It's so dark. Um, okay. So here's the thing. I grew up as a ballerina, as a dancer, and I grew up born in the eighties, child of the nineties. So I talk a lot about in the book, like, I grew up, like, nobody wanted to be Kim Kardashian. Nobody wanted to have a BBL or like curves or like Garth Fisher did my boobs under the muscle. Like, nobody even wanted boobs. We wanted to be like Kate Moss. So stick thin. And that was like the girl that was who was on our walls, you know? And then being a dancer on top of it. Um, I, I just can't remember a time when I wasn't at war in my own body. And I think when you're someone who is kind of thin, people are like, oh, it must be so easy for you. And I think

• 40:20Speaker 02

  that no matter who you are, no matter what your body shape, you know, I think women think about their bodies constantly. And then I think when I transitioned to TV, I had such a weird upbringing with being weighed as a dancer. I had multiple jobs as a twenty year old where I was told a show weight. I had to be a show weight when I was a Rocket. Back in the day, they used to send you a letter to your house that was like embossed in gold foil that was like, Dear Miss Keltie, like on the first day of rehearsals, you will be required to be this weight. Like, it was just like very bizarre things, because it was like the early two thousands. And, I mean, they've since changed that, thank God, but, um,

• 40:56Rayna Greenberg?

  And what was it, one hundred and twenty two?

• 40:58Speaker 02

  It was like, I was allowed to be a hundred and nine to a hundred and sixteen pounds, which, you know, their doctor had decided five, six. Yeah, I mean, that's like not a healthy weight. But I've had a majority of different things. Like, when I was a dancer on a cruise ship, they just literally put you on a scale and they were like, oh, you're a hundred and twenty five pounds. Kate, your show weight's one twenty. Like, they were just like automatically took five pounds off. And then, you know, with different dance companies, they would like prod you and measure you and be like, well, based on your BMI and all the science, this is the way, you know? And it was just, once you get that number put in your head, your, your number is your number for, like, my show weight haunts me and I'm in my forties, you know, forever. It doesn't matter. Like, and so I just had this like very weird

• 41:43Speaker 02

  reaction to my own body and always being this like dancer thin. And then I got into hosting and I got on TV and I didn't even realize, oh my God, there's so much wrong with my face. I was never even worried about my face. I thought my face was beautiful. And then, you know, people would comment and be like, oh, she looks like a whore. She looks like, um, someone said I look like, who's the lead singer of Aerosmith? They were like, she looks like Steven Tyler.

• 42:12Speaker 02

  I would, no. I mean, Steven Tyler's beautiful hair, so I think that was a compliment.

• 42:19Rayna Greenberg?

  I put it on my story.

• 42:20Speaker 02

  Okay, I was like, why is this selling something somebody said to Ashley?

• 42:23Rayna Greenberg?

  I posted it, yeah.

• 42:27Speaker 02

  I would get a lot of like Caitlyn Jenner, and these are all five, people would be like, oh my God, you look just like, and it would be like a sixty five year old woman. Like, it was just like, you know, it was, it's just hard. Here's the thing. I know it's fake. I know it's the internet.

• 42:39Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 42:39Speaker 02

  There's only so many times you can hear horrible things about yourself before they start to sort of seep in.

• 42:44Rayna Greenberg?

  Of course.

• 42:45Speaker 02

  And so I started in true, what I call in the book, my black swan brain. Like, I say, anyone that saw that movie, Black Swan with Natalie Portman, there's like this scene in that movie where she is looking in the mirror and she's like scratching at her body. And it's like a psycho thriller, right? And she's like bleeding. And I'm like, that feels like an everyday situation. Do you know what I mean? Like, it doesn't feel like a horror movie that they like dreamt up in Hollywood. I'm like, no, that's sometimes how I feel in my own body.

• 43:12Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 43:12Speaker 02

  And so I started looking around Hollywood as I was on these red carpets and looking at the most beautiful glamorous girls in the world, looking at my fellow hosts. And I was like, oh, well, I got this one in a million chance to get this job that I want so badly. I better not fuck it up. So I'm gonna work the hardest. I'm not gonna sleep. I'm gonna do the most research. I'm gonna do the best interviews. I'm never gonna say no. I'm never gonna take a day off. And I'm also gonna fix my face that people don't like. So then I went to the med spas and I started doing the thing that so many women do, which is they see the sign in the med spa and they're like, oh, seven hundred dollars, they're gonna melt the fat away. And I started doing the CoolSculpting.

• 43:54Speaker 02

  I did the Kybella, which is horrific. Don't ever do that. And basically I disfigured my face where basically the skin was just kind of like hanging off my chin.

• 44:05Rayna Greenberg?

  From those procedures.

• 44:06Speaker 02

  From those procedures. Because what happens, I learned later, is that you actually need a layer of fat because muscle can't connect to skin.

• 44:13Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay.

• 44:13Speaker 02

  It's like a sand, it's a BLT.

• 44:15Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh my gosh, I see what you mean.

• 44:17Speaker 02

  You need a little bit of fat to like stick it together. And so when you melt the fat away, the skin just flops around.

• 44:23Rayna Greenberg?

  My gosh.

• 44:23Speaker 02

  Anyway, so I disfigured my face and then I went in, I had a neck lift in twenty seventeen. Um, and Dr. Diamond was basically like, you fucked up your face. I'm gonna go in and stitch it up like a corset. It's gonna last five years. You're too young for a facelift. You're gonna come back in five years. I'll give you the facelift. And so I had the facelift a year and a half ago. And I think the important thing of the story is people are like, oh my God, you had a facelift. You look great, great. I know, thank you. But the important thing is, is that this is not a facelift because I was so vain, which I was. And I just wanted to get a facelift. This is a facelift because I disfigured my face.

• 44:58Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 44:59Speaker 02

  Because people were mean to me on the internet.

• 45:03Speaker 02

  Do you know what I mean?

• 45:03Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 45:04Speaker 02

  So it's like, I'm the ultimate girl that got pressured into, I saw myself on TV. I didn't think I looked as good as anyone else. My black swan brain went nutso bananas. And I screwed up my face so much in the pursuit of perfection that I had to then go get a facelift, like.

• 45:21Rayna Greenberg?

  But I think we, this is what we see with people. I think Khloe Kardashian is an example of like that whole family of people who are like, they are not exempt from all the criticism, no matter what they do.

• 45:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:34Rayna Greenberg?

  No matter that they are the standards of beauty. And I feel like Khloe was especially, just seemed very susceptible to it. And we just watched her morph. And she's a beautiful woman, by the way. But I feel like there's been these points where it's like, we were watching her respond to the internet.

• 45:50Speaker 02

  In real time.

• 45:50Rayna Greenberg?

  And doing things that's, it really is making her look less beautiful.

• 45:54Speaker 02

  Then you look at somebody like her and you're like, it is never enough.

• 45:57Rayna Greenberg?

  It's never enough.

• 45:57Speaker 02

  You like, it will never be enough. And, you know, whether or not you have a platform or not, like, I think women are just being told that you're never good enough. And the standard was to then body positivity and love your body. And cellulite's great. And having a little muffin top is great. And then Ozempic rolled in. Now it's like, well, now, now you have to be real thin. And like, it's never enough. And so you, at some point, have to get to a point where you're like, I, I'm done. I gotta lean out from this. I gotta just accept who I am. I think so. And I will say, like, I finished my facelift and healed from that. And I was like, oh my God, I'm done. Thank God. And then all of a sudden, I'm like, do I need boobs? Like, I, it never ends.

• 46:34Rayna Greenberg?

  I'm dead.

• 46:35Speaker 02

  I'm not getting boobs, but like, of all my friends have now had their children and they're all getting their little baby boob lifts. And I'm in Ibiza again this summer. And I was like, I'm so much more mentally stable this year. And I'm looking around, I'm like, do I need boobs? And then I'm like, a blef. I didn't even know that was something I needed.

• 46:49Rayna Greenberg?

  You definitely don't.

• 46:50Speaker 02

  No.

• 46:50Rayna Greenberg?

  I, I will get a facelift probably the next five years.

• 46:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:54Rayna Greenberg?

  Every, probably once a quarter, I do a like, should boobs? I'm not. I will, I won't. But, and I'm really happy with my body. You know that.

• 47:02Speaker 02

  You look great.

• 47:03Rayna Greenberg?

  I think when I see a really good boob job.

• 47:05Speaker 02

  I know. And you're like, oh my God, I should get boobs.

• 47:08Rayna Greenberg?

  Are you guys looking at my boobs thinking like, I want them to be that big?

• 47:10Speaker 02

  I know. Wait, are those real boobs?

• 47:12Rayna Greenberg?

  They're real. I had three breast reductions. It was a whole thing. But I used to have like, Y size.

• 47:16Speaker 02

  I think your boobs are great on you. Thank you. But I guess my point is with all of this is like, here's the thing. I think that if we just remove the cloak of secrecy around it, right? Like me coming on your podcast being like, here's what you should do, here's what you shouldn't do, and here's what you're gonna want to do. Then it can be like, you know, sometimes when you're lying in bed at night and you feel unhappy and you just go on a fast fashion site and spend two hundred dollars and you get nineteen items.

• 47:43Rayna Greenberg?

  Right enough.

• 47:44Speaker 02

  Okay? I've leaned out.

• 47:45Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay.

• 47:46Speaker 02

  I've said fuck them.

• 47:47Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, thank you. But you know what I mean? You know that dopamine that happens? I shouldn't do this, but like I just, I want something to come and I don't care that it's like made of plastic and it's gonna give me like cancer. Like I just wanna wear it. I think if we talk about all of this stuff that's going on in our minds, our black swan brains with our bodies and our faces and are being affected by it and not being so like, oh, nothing gets me. I'm such a strong woman. Then maybe it'll be the same way as like, I know, we should talk about maybe getting boobs one day. We'll talk about it and then we won't do it. You know what I mean? But like taking the shame away from it and it just being these conversations, like I actually sort of love that

• 48:27Rayna Greenberg?

  the Kris Jenner, the Cat Sadler, the Tracy Tudor, the everyone else, like now it's like we're talking about our facelifts like we're talking about buying a jelly shoe on Amazon. And good.

• 48:36Speaker 02

  Right.

• 48:37Rayna Greenberg?

  You know, there's less mystery.

• 48:38Speaker 02

  Right.

• 48:39Rayna Greenberg?

  Because I wanna say I got the facelift and now I'm like, should I do my eyes? So you can get the facelift, you're never gonna be happy.

• 48:45Speaker 02

  Yes, and we have said that before, because I've had my nose done and we've all, we've both had everything done.

• 48:50Rayna Greenberg?

  I love that about you guys. And also like my bruise from Dr. Diamond, I was like, no, it's fine. Cause like you guys come on and you're like.

• 48:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, I wouldn't even have ever known. But I've always said like, you've gotta be happy enough with yourself because that's not gonna make you happy. Like I'm sure there are plenty of women who've gotten rhinoplasties who were just like, I hate myself and I will love myself after. And I went into it loving myself and then I love myself even more. But I just think you gotta get to that point first because the expectations are unrealistic, that it's gonna change your life in that way. And then I just don't think you ever stop.

• 49:27Rayna Greenberg?

  You never stop. And I think that, again, my whole point in the book is is I just really want people to understand that like, when you get the thing, the marriage, the job, the facelift, like it's all inside work still. You know what I mean? And like, there's never a top of the happiness mountain where you're like, oh my God, now I finally got this thing. I'm free. Like there's no freedom. We have to like find that for ourselves. And the way that I've been able to do that in my life is through hard work and turning those like spiral nights into something that makes me feel purposeful.

• 50:00Speaker 02

  Yeah. Also, I just, I really surround myself with people that make me feel good about myself. And it's nice. My friends, just they don't invalidate me when I say like, I wanna change this. But the people around me think that our show is amazing and they just like wanna be a part of our lives. And I think like the people around me are so wonderful, there has to be something about me that makes them wanna be with me. And I don't know, the people around me are what make me feel like really confident.

• 50:24Rayna Greenberg?

  But you also are who you're, what you are, the company you keep.

• 50:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:27Rayna Greenberg?

  Right? That's like, that's true. Okay, I wanna wrap up this physical appearance conversation with one thing you have in the book of like the celebrities don't really look like that in person. Like you're seeing them like with the lighting and all the things.

• 50:40Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 50:40Rayna Greenberg?

  We're not shitting on people, but I just, I like that too, that

• 50:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, they don't.

• 50:44Rayna Greenberg?

  It's not what you think too. On top of all the work everybody's getting done, they still actually don't look like what you think you're seeing.

• 50:50Speaker 02

  And you have three hours of makeup and hair.

• 50:52Rayna Greenberg?

  No one's been more close up than you.

• 50:54Speaker 02

  Yes. And what's so interesting, we were just talking about Khloe Kardashian. Khloe Kardashian is a very interesting person to me because she's actually prettier in real life.

• 51:04Rayna Greenberg?

  I believe it.

• 51:04Speaker 02

  This is so wild. Like when you sit next to her and through all the different years of Khloe, you're like, oh my God, you're so gorgeous. Like she's really tall. She's like got these big features, like she's really gorgeous. I will say, we saw it a little bit at the Vanity Fair party last year. Do you remember the Vanity Fair Oscar party got kinda reamed for having bad lighting last year? There was like the Kaya. Okay, you missed it. I'll, I'll give you a quick thing.

• 51:29Rayna Greenberg?

  No, no, yes, you remember this.

• 51:31Speaker 02

  I remember the photo. Yeah. So normally on the red carpet, they basically have sort of a behind me, the interviewer, where the stars are facing, they have like a wall of lighting.

• 51:41Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 51:41Speaker 02

  So they have a wall of lighting, which is like shining down on them. You know, like when you get your, your old sidekick and you took a picture in 2070? You didn't have a nose and you felt really hot?

• 51:50Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 51:51Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 51:52Rayna Greenberg?

  The pretty filter.

• 51:53Speaker 02

  It's like the Paris filter on you at all times. And then on top of that, my cameraman has another light, like he sets up his own light. So you're being really blasted by lights. Something happened at the Vanity Fair, I wasn't there, that the lighting was not doing what the lighting normally does in Hollywood. And what we saw, and everyone was like, oh, Kaya Gerber has a crow's foot. And you're like, yeah, babe. Everyone has crow's feet, like literally everyone, because when you're not blasting someone with the Paris filter, the white light.

• 52:21Rayna Greenberg?

  Totally.

• 52:22Speaker 02

  You're gonna see a black head, a little, like, I know firsthand because I wear a lot of makeup on the red carpet, like drag queen level style makeup. But then when you're all lit like that, it's perfection. That's not really what people look like. They've got old elbows, they've got old knees. They've got like a little scratchy old lady chest that they're covering up. We've all got a little old lady chest, like, you know, Jane Fonda's like, I'm gonna wear a turtleneck in the summer, because she's like, you're not seeing that, you know?

• 52:50Rayna Greenberg?

  So true. But also like on top of that, not a hot take, people have personal trainers seven days a week. They have the most expensive hair and makeup people and they sit here and make up for five hours.

• 52:58Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 52:59Rayna Greenberg?

  Professional stylists, like you're not competing against reality. When you look at some, I look at women, I'm like, their hair is so amazing. None of it's real. Nothing's real.

• 53:06Speaker 02

  Right. No, if you guys only knew the amount of, even for me on a red carpet, the amount of undergarments and then tailoring, like there's this thing. I'm gonna give your, all your listeners a hot take, whether they're getting married or they're going to an event. There's something called a grogain. Have you ever heard of it?

• 53:19Rayna Greenberg?

  No.

• 53:20Speaker 02

  Even in your wedding dresses?

• 53:22Rayna Greenberg?

  No.

• 53:23Speaker 02

  Okay. So there's something called a grogain.

• 53:25Rayna Greenberg?

  She was actually a perfect bride.

• 53:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, you were gorge.

• 53:28Rayna Greenberg?

  Also, getting into that dress was a journey. I mean, it just was a little tight. And I

• 53:33Speaker 02

  You needed a grogain.

• 53:34Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay.

• 53:34Speaker 02

  Yeah. A grogain is essentially a bra strap. It's a big, thick piece of material in couture dresses. And it goes around your belly, like the, the, the, right at your waist.

• 53:46Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 53:46Speaker 02

  And so when you buy your dress from Marshalls or wherever Macy's and you get your dress, what happens is they put the grogain in and they have the dress. And so it just like really it like, is like a little mini corset in every gown. And it pulls in your clothes. Well, people put the grogains in everything. Like everything a star is wearing on the red carpet. And it's very uncomfortable. And it just gives you like this beautiful, beautiful waist. And I put it in all my dresses. And it really like gives you a shape on the red carpet that like a Spanx or a Skims can't. Anyway. So there's like all these tips and tricks of like how to look great, you know, that like the regular girl doesn't know. So when you

• 54:26Rayna Greenberg?

  They're not even wearing Spanx. It's like mega Spanx. Well, and it's also like, sometimes you look at a woman and people be like, is she pregnant? It's like, it's just our uterus. It's just our organs poke, no, people's stomachs aren't concave. I mean, some people's are, but I think like a normal woman's body.

• 54:43Speaker 02

  Parts inside of there.

• 54:44Rayna Greenberg?

  That's just my organs.

• 54:45Speaker 02

  You guys, I talk about this in the book, like the before red carpet is like, I don't wanna be a psycho, but like I'm not having a carbonation, a carb for the week before the red carpet. And then I'm waiting for, I literally have my glam team have two diet cokes in their glam bag. Cause the minute my picture's taken and I'm starting to do the hosting and like then I don't care about the bad pictures. Then I like suck down carbonation for the first time in seven days. And I was like, and a power bar. And I'm like, oh my God, like the things people are doing, it's horrible. It's horrible and it's sick and it's fucked up. But like, that's the game. That's what we're doing.

• 55:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, just gonna take a quick break. I'm telling you guys about ShopBop. I am so excited to talk about ShopBop. This is a place that we love to shop. I have been shopping from ShopBop for so many years. Like I don't even remember. And everything that you need, whether it's an outfit for work, for a special occasion, vacation, wedding, date night, you are gonna find it on ShopBop. They have all the brands in a real range. So you can find Khloe, Burberry, Reformation, Alice and Olivia, which is one of our favorite lines, A-Gold, Mother, and everything from Levi's and Madewell. Really, you can just find everything on ShopBop. And they have one day shipping with Prime. So I've ordered from ShopBop through Prime and gotten it really quick. I ordered a few things for our France trip

• 56:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  this way. And I've been obsessed with using it that way. So whenever you have something coming up, this is where to go to figure out what to wear. It's super easy to browse. So I love this. I love the way the website is set up. I think sometimes some of these sites can be so overwhelming. You don't know where to start, but not ShopBop, we really love it. You can shop by what's new, check by designer alphabetically, and just again, get all your clothes, your activewear, shoes, bags, jewelry, accessories, even home and gifts. And like I said, if you have Amazon Prime, be sure to link your membership and you'll get a free one day shipping. So your order's gonna come the next day. So when life throws something at you last minute, ShopBop comes through every time for everything on your calendar. And because ShopBop is the best, they're giving our listeners 15% off your first app purchase with code GGE.

• 56:49Ashley Hesseltine?

  So go ahead and download the ShopBop app, use code GGE, that's GGE, at checkout for 15% off your first app purchase, ShopBop style for what's next.

• 56:59Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, and Noom. If you guys are curious about GLP-1s, and I was, and I have been on them in the past, and I had a positive experience, but I think a lot of people start thinking, okay, if I start this, and I'm curious about starting this, you know, I feel, how do I get off of them? And I love what Noom is doing. They are the leading behavioral change company. And they believe that losing weight is only half the battle. So unlike other short-term programs and other GLP-1 providers that just give you the medication, Noom pairs with behavioral tools to help people build sustainable habits and have active, long-lasting success. So they have an app that's fantastic that'll guide you through all of this. Their website is great as well.

• 57:40Rayna Greenberg?

  But it'll combine all kinds of progress tracking. It is designed for real life, so it's gonna give you a psychology-based, science-backed program that will pair that with behavioral changes, daily lessons, food logging to support the weight loss. So it's not enough just to take these medications. It's also important to learn how to eat healthy. What feels good in my body? What makes me feel good? How do I grocery shop? How do I work out? How if I ever wanna get off of this, can I make this sustainable? And they're gonna help you understand and manage food noise, make more intentional food and exercise choice, and just stay consistent and navigate all the setbacks. So I like what they're doing. If you're curious about GLP-1s, the Noom GLP-1 program starts at $39 and is delivered to your door in as little as seven days.

• 58:21Rayna Greenberg?

  Start your GLP-1 journey today at Noom.com. That's N-O-O-M.com. Noom, lose or keep, initial one month subscription from $39 plus tax and $99 plus tax per month thereafter. Cost of the medication is not included. Final pricing depends upon program selection.

• 58:38Speaker 02

  Okay, and AG1, we have daily savings coming up. It's just gonna be getting so dark.

• 58:46Rayna Greenberg?

  Would you call it?

• 58:46Speaker 02

  Daily savings. Daylight savings. I know. Like, I'm sad. I know. I live somewhere cold. We're just talking about this. It's gonna get dark at 3:30 in the afternoon. The season shifts and this can really change your whole rhythm of your body and your life. Your alarm goes off, it's pitch black outside. You've got your full day ahead. It's a stress just thinking about it. So that is where AG1 Routine can come in. It is not gonna fix your sleep, your alarm time, or change daylight savings, but it is gonna give your body what it needs to be ready. One scoop cold water every morning before anything else. So we use AG1 with ice cold water. You can also put it in your smoothie. I've done that in the past as well. You can add a little lemon, whatever you wanna do. 12 ounces is the minimal amount of water. I like to do a little more. I like to water it a little bit more, but you know, you do you.

• 59:30Speaker 02

  When your body is navigating seasonal change, your nutritional foundation matters more than ever. So AG1 Next Gen has 75 plus ingredients, vitamins, minerals, pre and probiotics, superfoods, backed by four separate gold standard clinical trials. And these key nutrient levels are improved within three months of consistent use. So it's not a one day fix, of course. It's what happens when you stay consistent. So really just incorporate this into your routine. It's no better time to do it than October and the time changes. And this is when your immune support is really gonna earn its place. Again, cold season coming up, all the things. AG1 Next Gen is specifically formulated to support immune defense, so you stay ahead of the season. And we've always noticed it's gonna give you more energy to just carry you through whatever you have going on and just be that nice little immune boost that you need in your daily routine.

• 1:00:14Speaker 02

  So go to drinkag1.com/gge and for a limited time, get a free immune support bundle, including a bottle of omega-3 fish oil and a bottle of vitamin D3K2 with your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro. That's drinkag1.com/gge. Okay. Well, let's pivot from body a little bit. No, I think it's really important to hear people say this. We love this conversation. And I do look at people like, how are their knees looking like that? My knees don't look like that. My chest doesn't look like that. Like knees and chest, as I get older, I'm like, they're looking a little older. The elbows. Elbows are not, but they're not my business. That's a good call. Like, I don't see that. I'm not back there. There was one picture that. Oh, my God. I fucking love that. My elbows are none of my business.

• 1:00:53Speaker 02

  I remember this picture of Meghan and I walking into the water in Greece from the back. And I was like, we look so good. My butt looks good, we whatever. And then I zoomed in and I was like, oh, my God. But I don't ever have to look at them. That's your husband's business. My elbows are none of my business. And you're right, cuz I felt bad about my elbows in a photo too. I was like. You know, it's interesting, even with Dolly Parton passing last month, like, you know, Dolly wore like a glove. Like, when you interviewed Dolly, Dolly, Dolly only had her fingernails out. Wow. That's gonna be me. And Paris Hilton does the same thing. I'm like, does Paris have an old hand? What is she hiding under those gloves? I also have a tramp stamp and I'm like, it's none of my business. I got mine lasered off. But it's none of your business. Yes, it's none of my business. Wait, what was your tramp stamp? Oh, it was the Chinese word for woman. Of course.

• 1:01:39Speaker 02

  Why was yours? Yours is worse, a little bit worse. You have butterfly, power butterfly. No, mine, mine looks like a bullseye. I always forget. Cuz it's none of my business. It looks like a butthole. You gotta get that lasered off. It's none of my business. That's the people that sleep with me. I don't care. It looks like a butthole above your butthole. Yeah, it's like a second. My friend has, you like it, and a water squirt on her ass. And I was like, you gotta get that lasered off. On the cheek? On the cheek! None of your business. It's not my business. Honestly, new hashtag. It's none of my business. It's not. I've never had a guy be like, I'm having trouble finishing. You have a butthole on your back. No, he loves it. They love a butthole. It's like uncharted territory. Um, I do wanna talk about dating and fuckboys. So I wrote down this quote in the fuck the fuckboys chapter.

• 1:02:25Speaker 02

  And you start with, please, I am begging you, if you do one thing in this wild, one time only life, pick a partner who is nice to you. It just like really hit hard. That's the chapter. And you talk about your husband, you say you committed to him, but only after he spent months trying to date you and you ignored him and. I went on The Bachelor. Yeah, like all this stuff. So I just wanna hear a little bit about that. You know, I've made a lot of mistakes and I am a very messy person. The only thing I've really done right is pick someone who's really nice to me and really loves me and really knows me. And I have so many friends that have picked incorrectly. And more importantly, picked incorrectly and then had children with that person and

• 1:03:10Speaker 02

  are now in the middle of messy custody and divorces and money and you're stuck with them forever. They're even gonna come to the wedding of your kids one day. Like, all of the games, all the dating books, all the Why Men Love Bitches, all of it, all of it, all of it. It's so fun. It's so crazy. It makes for great stories, but oh, my God. Life is hard enough with trying to make someone love you for the, your whole life. That seems exhausting to me. I love the advice. I saw this meme the other day that said, like, I promise you, the person that dysregulates your entire nervous system is not the love of your life. And I was like, well, it really hit me in the chest. The person that makes you wonder and chase after them and you don't know they're inconsistent, they don't do what they say they're gonna do, like, that's not, that should not be the love of your life. Or isn't nice to you.

• 1:03:55Speaker 02

  Isn't nice to you. Like, I mean, it's, we were talking with a friend recently and the way her and her partner were fighting and I'm like, I don't think Shashank would ever speak, we would never speak to each other like that. I don't know, maybe in 10 years, something, I just can't even picture it. We don't speak to each other like that. We don't say things to hurt the other person's feelings. And I also just think I can be really neurotic and I can be a certain type of person that I'm not for everybody and I found someone that like, doesn't love me in spite of those things. He loves those things about me. So, and I feel like that's probably how you feel too. Like, you're a specific type of person and your husband is just like, that's what I love about her. And kind of is like giggles about it. Like, it's kind of entertained.

• 1:04:40Speaker 02

  He's like, there's never a boring moment with you. Yeah, we were watching the World Cup, like, me and Ashley and Shashank. And Ashley wanted a new table. And Shashank and I were sitting there and Ashley's running around trying to find a better table. He's just laughing, he's just like, I gotta let her cook. It was so, he's like, the table's never good enough. It's always, I just gotta let her go. And he thought it was so funny. Not like she's so much, like, she's, you know, oh, here she goes again. Like, it's more, he's just like, here she goes, like, I watch her. He's like, you know, the thing, well, I mean, Ashley, like, I don't have to worry about our table at a restaurant cuz she will get us a better one. Like, it's just funny. I just wanna have a nice experience. I don't do it all the time. No, and also, like, there's, I think what I learned in this journey is there's enough going on in this to keep me busy the rest of my days.

• 1:05:22Speaker 02

  I don't need to be proving myself to the love of my life. I don't want to have to pretend to be a certain way or win you over or continually win you over. Like, I just want to have a nice experience. And I do think a lot of the success that I've had and the things that I've been able to accomplish in spite of my own neuroses have been because I had Chris behind me. Okay, so then I wanna quote you again, cuz I, and then we can move on from this, but you get, you tell the Lady World story and how he was just there and, you know, was being your rock and it's gonna be okay. And you just said, this is just one of the million times he's shown love in that way. He's by far the best person I know and honestly, the best business decision I've ever made. To say your partner, your romantic partner, Rain and I obviously were partners, business

• 1:06:07Speaker 02

  partners, but like, that they're a business decision. It's so true because nothing ruins your life, your career, your self-worth than a bad partner. Absolutely. I've said it, like, my best relationships are the ones that throughout the day, I don't have to think about them. I don't think, like, will they show up for me? Will this person call me? Will they do the right thing if I need something? Those are my best relationships. And like, listen, I love Shashank. He's made Ashley just more calm, more patient. He's a good business decision. He's the best business decision for us. He's the best thing that ever happened to this business. Yes. But like, you also, you tell another story in the book about how, I don't, it's not your first husband, but it was like a rock star you were dating and how like, you just kept thinking, like, I just have to be the cool girl. I just have to act like things don't bother me and eventually they just won't. And like, we all have our breaking points, you know?

• 1:06:52Speaker 02

  And I like, I felt that, that story where you're just like, I just have to swallow this, I just have to look the other way. And like, people will, men will take advantage of you as long as you are willing to let them.

• 1:07:02Speaker 02

  Oh, my God, isn't that true? You're not gonna let them. You're gonna fuck them and then decide if you're gonna keep them or you're just gonna fuck them and they're fun. Cuz sometimes it's just for the fuck. Oh, yeah. Sometimes, just, fuck always is fun. Do all the things with all the talks that guys before you settle down. Yes, that's so fun, such good stories. Yeah. We've had, like, if in your twenties, don't listen to, like, the mean guys. Turn it off. Turn off this podcast. It'll make you a better friend. It'll make you appreciate the other people later on. What was the thing that went viral? He was standing in front. Yes, my husband was very famous last year at the Grammys. So as you know, I'm on the road to fame. So my husband, Chris, is the EVP over at Roc Nation. So he runs the artists, like, all the music stuff over there. And so like, he is a music manager. He's very private.

• 1:07:47Speaker 02

  He has a private Instagram. He has, you can't Google him. The guy, Christopher Knight from the Brady Bunch, comes up. I'm like, there's like another Chris Knight in Nashville that makes music. That's not my Chris. Chris is very, he doesn't let me take pictures of him for my Instagram. He's very, very shy. And he is at the Grammys with one of his clients and they're like in the pit, which is like where all the stars sit. And I've just done the Grammys red carpet live for me, like, my job, I crushed. I was in a naked dress. I was like, I'm back, bitches. I was like, I've never felt hotter in my life. I crushed. Young Bud was like licking me on the carpet. It was like incredible. I get back to my hotel to eat my fat burger and drink my Diet Coke and I'm watching the Grammys and I was like, is that Chris Knight? So Chris is 6'6". Well, good for you.

• 1:08:28Speaker 02

  There's a minute where Trevor's in this crowd and he's coming, he's coming back and it's just Chris Knight walking across the screen. And Chris, he, he, he walks across and then he sits down and then he stands right up in front of, he, he's like looking around and like, he just walked in front of the camera. But he said to me that Trevor was like over here and the camera was way off stage. So it wasn't like there was a camera for him to watch. He couldn't see the camera and he couldn't, you can't hear anything inside.

• 1:08:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, just sit, it's fine. Well, don't stand in front of the camera, just sit down. And then, yeah, everyone gets you, no, don't stand again in front of the camera. This is, it was like a pirate DVD. What are you doing?

• 1:09:07Speaker 02

  So he was like, I don't know what was happening. And so he's sitting down and it went so viral. He was everywhere. The amount of phone calls we got, because it just made it so much funnier because he's so private. Like, I would be like, I would be like, oh, my God, I'm viral. Okay, I better do a People Magazine exclusive to talk about my virality. Like, I wouldn't suck it up, you know? Yes. And he was just like, oh, my God. Like, he was mortified and he looks so hot, you guys. I was like, that man. That's my man. And honestly, the Grammys was a little slow last year. He was like. It was a spicy moment, but Trevor Noah was like, sit down, tall guy. Yeah, he's like, tall guy. The funniest part is that Hamish, who's the director of the Grammys, literally knows Chris, cuz they've worked together for years. So like, he could've cut away, but he was, I think he was fucking with him.

• 1:09:52Speaker 02

  That's so funny. I think it's a funny moment. Okay, Rain wants to talk. About friendship.

• 1:09:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  I'm having a moment now. You wrote in the book, fuck the perfect friend fantasy. And you, I mean, I know it's a little bit work, but like you and Jack and Becca, like you're open that you guys fight and that there's conflict. And I think it's really, I think we have this idea of friendship and that it's just, we're all supposed to like be this perfect friend and do the right thing. And like, I don't know, I just, the older I get, the more I'm like, life is messy and we make mistakes, we have to apologize to things we did. But I want to just talk about the inspo for the chapter.

• 1:10:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think that's one of the things that I've learned, especially doing the Lady Gang podcast, is that people are having more trouble with their women friendships and their friendship breakups than they really are with their, there's a lot of advice for like a bad guy or a bad romantic relationship. But friends, you're just supposed to be like a girl's girl and it all works out. And I've had just many disappointments with the Lady Gang in particular. We spent the first like six or seven years being, people would be like, do you guys fight? And we're like, not really, because we didn't have anything to fight about. We were really successful and making tons of money, like everything was going great. You know what I mean? And then when you get into like the twilight of your business and things start to get hard and the business changes, like that's when the hard conversations have to happen. I think the radical honesty is what has saved us and saved many of my female friendships.

• 1:11:09Speaker 02

  I don't know if you guys have a similar situation, but like we, Becca will call me and she'll say something that is really hard to handle, but it's right. And then I have to suck it up and apologize, or I'll have to say, hey, guys, we can't pay ourselves this month. I'm like, that sucks. You know what I mean? Like those things happen. I think what I learned is I have this like theory in the book, like the box theory, which I know Tinks talks about in dating. But Justin Sylvester, my co-host at E, came up to me, he's like, you get screwed up in friendships because you have people in the wrong box. We were talking about this a little bit before. You think like your Hollywood acquaintance, like the person that you've met, that you interviewed and you kind of are friendly with, like you think they're your friend. They're not your friend. Like that's a, that's an acquaintance.

• 1:11:52Speaker 02

  And then you think your friends are your best friends, like you're confiding in the friend, the way you should with a best friend. And then you're mad when the secret gets leaked. And then you're treating a best friend like a lifer. Like there's a best friend in a season, like, you know, have you had a, like a work friend that you're so close with? I mean, like people who are in offices or working corporate, like they have like a friend that like knows everything about their day to day life. Cause you see them every single day. Yes, but they're not your lifer. That's not like your college friend, the like bridesmaid at your wedding, like that's a lifer. And so these boxes are different and you have to really put people in their correct boxes and treat them and invest in that friendship in that way.

• 1:12:32Speaker 02

  Cause I think we get upset when, oh my God, this person did something to me, but like it's an acquaintance. Like your expectation, you're expecting them to treat you like a lifer and they're not, they're an acquaintance.

• 1:12:44Ashley Hesseltine?

  I love that. And we've been having a lot of these conversations. This is just super relevant in our lives and I just, I'm obsessed with that and just even just thinking about it. And sometimes those people, the red carpet person, whatever it is, they're just so fun. You're like, you have that like moment that you have with a guy sometimes, those like love bombing nights where you're like, we're, this is like a kindred spirit. And it's just not, and the secrets you might tell them should have been stuff you, for me, I should be talking to my college friends about who were like the real, you know, like the real ones and know me on that level that they're like family, you know, so.

• 1:13:20Speaker 02

  Did you have a situation when you're, I just was thinking like the most relevant thing for you, like when your special came out, this would be like a great example. I have this book coming out, it's a similar thing, like, and you're like, okay, this is my thing that I'm really proud of. And I know that all these people are going to show up for me and support it because they're all my friends and they all care about me. And it is some Hollywood people of like people you've interviewed, or maybe people you've supported or promoted their shit on your top podcast. And then it's crickets and you're so hurt because you're like, wait, I made you famous or I, not made you famous, but like.

• 1:13:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  I put you on my Instagram story.

• 1:13:54Speaker 02

  I put you on my Instagram story. I linked your link. I supported you. I thought we were like a mutually beneficial thing here.

• 1:14:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  We talk about this a lot and we.

• 1:14:02Speaker 02

  It's very heartbreaking.

• 1:14:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  I'm sorry, no matter what anybody says, you notice and you remember and you know who promoted you and who didn't. And everybody knows this. I had a friend in comedy say this to me once, I don't want to share the whole conversation, but she said it and I was like, it is so true. And there was a few people that I was like, are they going to share this because of what we and I have done for them? And I had just a few disappointments. All my real friends showed up, people who I genuinely consider my real friends. And I had friends come to my house to watch it and I did not feel slighted by someone I consider a real friend. There were people that I was like, that's, that's noted.

• 1:14:39Speaker 02

  Noted. People who've promoted their books, their comedy specials, not just had them on the show. It's mutually beneficial to have a guest on this show, but like we have gone out of our way to promote them and it is like really hurtful. And you're like, oh, we're not what I thought that we were.

• 1:14:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  And it, it wasn't too many. I was, I was pretty pleased in that front. And then there, again, there's just some, there's some women that are the real ones and like you are one, of course. And someone like Serena Kerrigan, I just, I asked her, would you mind sharing this? She was like, a million percent. I got you. And we're going to have her on a second time when her book comes out. Like this, this feels good. It feels good to lift other women up and promote them and vice versa. I don't know. It's, it's weird to not, but also I just want to tell anybody who has anything, I mean, this might not be the most relatable conversation, but like, you're not on everyone's mind all the time, you know, like I think you're like, but so and so didn't share. It's like, they really might not have seen it. I mean, some people, they probably did, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

• 1:15:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  I mean, and I learned that when I, with the special, there was a few people who I did ask, like someone like a Serena, who was not an actual close friend. And she was like, a hundred percent, I'll do it right now. You know, like I just, it doesn't hurt.

• 1:15:49Speaker 02

  But this is real life. This is your wedding. This is your baby shower. This is your new coffee table. This is your promotion on LinkedIn. This is, this actually, we're talking about in Hollywood terms, but this is real life for women. And like, yes, you cannot expect everyone to be as excited about your thing as you, whatever that thing is. But you can note and put people where they belong based on if they're not excited for you.

• 1:16:12Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, you can, but I also think like it's, it's good to remember that not everybody thinks you need that and you should tell people what you need. You can at least try it that way. Like I think somebody looks at Ashley and they're just like, she has this huge podcast. She has a huge Instagram following. She's been a comedian for a decade. Like, why would she need me to promote this? She's so successful. And I think you have to ask for help sometimes. People are just look at you and they have you on this pedestal and they probably think like, well, why would she need this from me?

• 1:16:37Speaker 02

  And that goes back to fuck pretending it's effortless. Because then you go back and you're like, hey, I want this to happen. I need your help. I'm not too cringe to ask you for support.

• 1:16:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. Yeah. Don't be scared to ask. I love that.

• 1:16:52Speaker 02

  It's actually really good.

• 1:16:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  What's your take on cringe? To be cringe, own it, be like.

• 1:16:57Speaker 02

  I am cringe, but again, I don't think it's cringey to be cringe. I mean, I think some things are cringe, like I'm a 40 year old woman wearing a puffy sleeved leopard baby doll dress.

• 1:17:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  I've been looking at this being like, should I wear that?

• 1:17:08Speaker 02

  This is Rent the Runway. Isn't that crazy? I'm a big Rent, anyway.

• 1:17:12Ashley Hesseltine?

  We used to do it all the time.

• 1:17:12Speaker 02

  I love, I just, like, there's some things about me that are cringe and I'll admit that they're cringe, but effort is not one of them. Like, I just think it's so pathetic to, like, I'm never going to be that girl that's like posting artsy photos on Instagram, getting three likes and not having it bother me. Like, baby, I'm following the trend. What? It's chic too? What? It's, it's like I'll, you know, like.

• 1:17:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  Netflix documentary kind of chic, do all the things.

• 1:17:37Speaker 02

  I'm doing all the online trends and like the most cringey thing you can do is really want something for yourself and not go after it. Because your fear of what other people are going to think, because two things, they're either going to love it, they're going to hate it, they're not thinking about you. And that's it. And so like you can throw out the bottom two. And like, yeah, I just, I don't, I don't really care about being cringe. I love a cringe person.

• 1:17:59Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, I know. Like those trends, like I was like, yeah, I really don't want to see another kind of chic, but let people live. Like, I don't know, I hate that like the criticism that think pieces of like this, if I see one more of these trends, oh my God, people, let them have, let people have fun.

• 1:18:16Speaker 02

  Let people make sourdough bread. Who cares?

• 1:18:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  Thank you. Make a sourdough.

• 1:18:19Speaker 02

  If I see one more of those Netflix sit down documentary, oh my.

• 1:18:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  Then get off the internet. You don't know what's making you look at this either.

• 1:18:25Speaker 02

  Just everything, everyone's just doing the same stuff. People are having fun. Because also like not all of us are creative geniuses. Some of us just need to copy. Some of us need to copy. I have no original ideas. I copy.

• 1:18:38Ashley Hesseltine?

  Please, this is the original idea.

• 1:18:40Speaker 02

  Actually, the devil horn cover is made by a drag queen. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, I have some okay ideas.

• 1:18:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  How are you feeling about like the process being done, like overall, looking back, like how are you feeling about writing this book by yourself?

• 1:18:54Speaker 02

  The fuck them theory is the most important thing I've ever done in my life, which means I know it's going to fail miserably.

• 1:19:01Speaker 02

  Cause I care so much.

• 1:19:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  Cause I want it to be.

• 1:19:04Speaker 02

  I want it to be good so bad. I think it's the best thing I've ever done in my entire career. And I really want people to read it. Like I actually, I really appreciate your kind words, but I actually do think it's great, which is so terrifying. A lot of what I've done in my life has been kind of like, okay. And like I pretended it was great. This is actually really great and I'm terrified, but also I wrote it for everyone else and I want people to read it and take something from it. But really this was my cleansing. I was in a very bad place when I started writing this book, um, which I start about in the introduction. I was in a very bad place and I have sort of crawled tooth and nail out of my own personal version of hell to be in a much better place, a much happier place.

• 1:19:46Speaker 02

  And this is that purge. And I went through it with the reader and did it in real time. And I want people to have big, beautiful, fabulous, messy, complicated, unhinged, fearless lives.

• 1:20:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, Kelsey, we love you. This has just really been such a pleasure. And we encourage people to order this for pre-sale?

• 1:20:06Speaker 02

  Yes, the book is on pre-sale right now, F them book.com. And I'm also going on tour, so I have 16 dates. I'm doing that. And it's really cool because I'm having like, I'm doing Chicago, I'm doing Philly. I'm having like a guest moderator and music in every city. So like my best friend Christina Perez, thousand years. She's going to be my moderator and like do a little mini concert in cities and then Matt Nathanson's playing in San Francisco.

• 1:20:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh my gosh, what a deep cut.

• 1:20:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's going to be, I know. He's my favorite. He's my celebrity crush.

• 1:20:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  He is?

• 1:20:37Speaker 02

  He's my number one, like.

• 1:20:38Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, he's great.

• 1:20:38Speaker 02

  I would leave Chris Knight. I'm just kidding. I wouldn't, but would I? No, I wouldn't.

• 1:20:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  Chris knows. If he knows you, he knows.

• 1:20:44Speaker 02

  Yeah. Chris will go to a Matt Nathanson concert with me and watch me be like, anyway, um, yeah. So I'm going on tour and I'm just really excited about it and you can get the book anywhere though.

• 1:20:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, great. Well, we will link it in our show notes. It's, the cover is great. And follow you.

• 1:21:00Speaker 02

  At Kelsey.

• 1:21:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  At Kelsey.

• 1:21:02Speaker 02

  I'm the only one, bitch.

• 1:21:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  On the Lady Gang podcast and.

• 1:21:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, and all the things.

• 1:21:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  Loved having you.

• 1:21:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm going to post a picture of you guys performing in the rain as promotion for this episode.

• 1:21:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  Just, yeah, exactly. I know. Sometimes you guys will, I'll get tagged in something from Lady Gang and I'm like, oh, it's just from Lady World.

• 1:21:16Speaker 02

  It's just me.

• 1:21:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  I love that time. I got to wear Air Force Ones to perform. We've performed hundreds and hundreds of times. It's my dream to wear sneakers and I finally got to do it, thanks to you.

• 1:21:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:21:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  What you guys put on was incredible. We have talked about on the podcast.

• 1:21:28Speaker 02

  Well.

• 1:21:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  And you guys know where to find us, girlsgottaeat.com, girlsgotta eat podcast, Instagram and TikTok. I am Ash Hess on Instagram and TikTok. Raina is Rayna Greenberg, RainaGreenberg.com for her upcoming tour dates.

• 1:21:38Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, I'm on tour.

• 1:21:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  Uh, you can watch full video on Spotify and YouTube, subscribe, leave a comment, share with a friend and we will see you Thursday.

• 1:21:45Speaker 02

  Have a good week, guys.

• 1:21:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  Bye.

• 1:22:13Speaker 04

  Fall never arrives all at once. Burst the air, then the light. And slowly the things you love begin to find each other. A jacket meets a dress, a hoodie slips beneath a blazer, an old cap finds a new scarf. Because you don't simply step into the season, you create it layer by layer, until it finally feels like fall. Find fall your way at Ross.