SpaceX IPO Date, ChatGPT x Personal Finance, Sanders & AOC vs. Data Centers | Diet TBPN

Diet TBPN delivers the best of today’s TBPN episode in 30 minutes. TBPN is a live tech talk show hosted by John Coogan and Jordi Hays, streaming weekdays 11–2 PT on X and YouTube, with each episode posted to podcast platforms right after. Described by The New York Times as “Silicon Valley’s newest obsession,” the show has recently featured Mark Zuckerberg, Sam Altman, Mark Cuban, and Satya Nadella. Follow TBPN: https://TBPN.com https://x.com/tbpn https://open.spotify.com/show/2L6WMqY3GUPCGBD0dX6p00?si=674252d53acf4231 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/technology-brothers/id1772360235 https://www.youtube.com/@TBPNLive

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02John Coogan?

  We have a special guest today, Rahul Sunwoker. Introduce yourself for everyone who doesn't know.

• 0:07Speaker 01

  Hello, guys. I'm Rahul Sunwoker, friend of John and Jordy, founder of Julius.

• 0:11John Coogan?

  Yeah. How are things going?

• 0:12Jordi Hays?

  I don't personally think he needs an introduction.

• 0:14John Coogan?

  I don't think so either. It's Friday. A bunch of tech news, bunch of random posts, the mansion section. Warren Buffett is stepping out for his famed charity lunch again. He's done these for years. A mystery bidder, I wonder if the mystery bidder will be unmasked at some point. A mystery bidder just bid over $9 million to win an auction with the Oracle of Omaha. Which would you pick? $9 million in your bank account or lunch with the Oracle of Omaha?

• 0:43Speaker 01

  I'm taking lunch with Oracle of Omaha any day.

• 0:46John Coogan?

  Any day, okay.

• 0:47Speaker 01

  Any day. What would I do with $9 million?

• 0:49John Coogan?

  You could buy Berkshire shares. Let him work for you forever.

• 0:53Jordi Hays?

  Rahul lives in SF, right?

• 0:55John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 0:55Jordi Hays?

  So you come in at nine, you're gonna get outbid.

• 0:58John Coogan?

  Okay, yeah.

• 0:59Jordi Hays?

  So what are you gonna do with nine?

• 1:00John Coogan?

  Well, nine is down. So if you look at the chart, there was a sort of a slow takeoff in the price of these winning bids for Buffett lunches. A mystery bidder just paid over $9 million to win an auction with the Oracle of Omaha, who last participated in the event in 2022. He took a couple of years off 2020. Of course, COVID took it off 2021. Made a comeback in 2022, and there was massive demand because previously, this was a $2 million lunch. Originally, in 2003, it was just a couple hundred K, but then it spiked to almost $20 million. The year's winning bid is a steep drop from the last time Buffett participated in the lunch.

• 1:37Jordi Hays?

  But the trend is quite positive.

• 1:38John Coogan?

  I think it's pretty good. If you interpolate this, he's still raising multi-million every year.

• 1:44Jordi Hays?

  So here's what I'm curious about. So it's a mystery bidder. We have no idea why they bid. We just know they want to go to lunch, right? We know they want to be at lunch, right?

• 1:54John Coogan?

  Delicious lunch.

• 1:55Jordi Hays?

  But there's different groups in attendance, right? You have Steph Curry and his wife. And so there's a possibility that this person just wanted lunch with them, right? They could come in and say, Warren, you know, keeps kind of like... He wants to be friendly, right? So they paid a lot. So he's trying to engage and they're just like, really dude? I paid $9 million to have lunch with Steph Curry and you're trying to constantly get awarded. What's going on? And, uh, and so, yeah, we don't know if this is just a basketball enthusiast, someone that wants to talk about how the game is.

• 2:25John Coogan?

  Yeah. Hard to sort of disentangle until you figure out who the mystery bidder is. Are they courtside every game or are they at the shareholders conference? Uh, at 92, Warren Buffett said he ran out of gas. The spirit remained eager, uh, but the flesh became progressively weaker. That's a wild quote from Warren Buffett.

• 2:46Jordi Hays?

  And what about this one?

• 2:47John Coogan?

  He said, both the money and the message remain important. Wait, whoa, whoa, whoa. That's not that crazy.

• 2:52Jordi Hays?

  The money and the message. I mean, if you say it, if you say it like he's selling like a course.

• 2:57John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:58Jordi Hays?

  Then it sounds significant.

• 3:00John Coogan?

  Uh, well, we have a question for you. So there was a, uh, article in the Wall Street Journal earlier this week. Typing is being replaced by whispering and it's way more annoying as a CEO, as a startup founder. I want your take on workplaces that are starting to resemble high-end call centers. Only these employees are talking to AI. And so, uh, they start with a, they start with an anecdote about working from home. Normally this couple would be typing on the keyboard, but now they're dictating to Codex and Claude Code. And over at Ramp, uh, engineers sit at their desks wearing gaming headsets so they can talk loudly to their AI assistants. What do you think? Should the future of the office sound more

• 3:45John Coogan?

  like a sales floor? What do you think?

• 3:48Speaker 01

  I think, uh, on one side, I'm pro this, this trend of like talking to your AI over typing because I can audit what people are typing in the office. You know, what are they, what if they're typing on Instagram or Twitch, a Twitch livestream?

• 4:02John Coogan?

  Okay. So if you're just walking by.

• 4:03Jordi Hays?

  So if you just see and they're saying scroll.

• 4:06John Coogan?

  Scroll.

• 4:07Jordi Hays?

  Scroll.

• 4:08John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 4:08Jordi Hays?

  Scroll.

• 4:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:09Jordi Hays?

  Then there might be an issue.

• 4:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Why, why are you doing that on the company time?

• 4:13John Coogan?

  Sure, sure, sure.

• 4:14Speaker 01

  If they're like talking to the AI, like, hey, make me like a.

• 4:17John Coogan?

  It's more, more accountability.

• 4:19Speaker 01

  More accountability.

• 4:20John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 4:20Speaker 01

  On the other hand, it's like, I don't want to hear your prompts.

• 4:23John Coogan?

  Sure.

• 4:24Speaker 01

  Like, if, if somebody's read my prompts, I would be so embarrassed.

• 4:27John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 4:28Speaker 01

  It's kind of like, you know.

• 4:30Jordi Hays?

  What's your, what's your May twenty twenty six appro- approach to prompting?

• 4:35Speaker 01

  My May twenty twenty six approach to prompting is I've completely, I've completely given up on like yelling at AI.

• 4:41John Coogan?

  Hmm.

• 4:41Speaker 01

  Like, just freaking do this. I've, I've completely stopped doing that.

• 4:44John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 4:45Speaker 01

  And I'm like.

• 4:45John Coogan?

  Is it just because it's good now?

• 4:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, I do more like cognitive behavioral therapy with, with AI now. Like, I do more CBT. I try to like reassure the AI.

• 4:53John Coogan?

  Oh, set it up for success.

• 4:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can do this. Like, think about, think about, you, you know, you're, you're like Palmer Lucky.

• 5:00John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 5:01Speaker 01

  And you can design this like new piece of hardware that's never existed before.

• 5:06John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 5:06Speaker 01

  Um, so I, I do more of that. You know, up until twenty twenty five, I was more yelling at the AI.

• 5:12John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 5:12Speaker 01

  Um.

• 5:13John Coogan?

  I've completely dropped out of the whole like, don't make mistakes, don't hallucinate. I feel like all that's been either baked into the pre-training or post-training, or it's like even in the system prompt already.

• 5:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:23John Coogan?

  I used to have, uh, the thing that annoyed me for a while was, uh, uh, antithetical parallelism. So it's not this, it's that. Or hyphens, those types of things were just tells of AI-written content.

• 5:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:37John Coogan?

  And I had a special prompt that would inject that in everything. It would say, hey, don't use the, it's not this, it's that. Don't use, uh, contrastive parallelism or antithetical parallelism. Uh, but I since ripped that out and just went back to default and it feels like, like all the firms sort of fixed the, the base training so that it's not as like, uh, clankery, I guess.

• 6:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I feel like Warren kind of ripped one of the models too. You know, when he said the spirit is eager, but the body is weaker.

• 6:07John Coogan?

  Oh.

• 6:09John Coogan?

  You think Warren's.

• 6:11Jordi Hays?

  He's, uh, subtweeting.

• 6:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:14Jordi Hays?

  The models.

• 6:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 6:15John Coogan?

  Uh, what about this idea for a gym that's themed like the Rainforest Cafe? And there's even a thunderstorm every minute, every twenty minutes. Have you ever been to the Rainforest Cafe?

• 6:25Speaker 01

  No, was the, was the Rainforest Cafe.

• 6:26John Coogan?

  Rainforest Cafe is a themed restaurant where you walk in and. The there's rainforest all around you and there are statues of animals. And the special thing about the Rainforest Cafe is that it's it's not just like, you know, you go to some steakhouse and they have some pictures on the wall because showing the lineage. Or you go to an Italian restaurant and you see pictures of celebrities that came in and sign. It's it's not purely decorative. It's actually interactive. And at the Rainforest Cafe, every 20 minutes, there's a thunderstorm and it plays very loudly and it actually like draws your attention away from whatever you're you're talking about. It's a it's a brain rot restaurant, basically. That's what Rainforest Cafe is. I can't believe you haven't been. You should go.

• 7:10John Coogan?

  Tyler, have you been to Rainforest Cafe? I have.

• 7:12Jordi Hays?

  Here we go. I want to go there.

• 7:14John Coogan?

  They really go over the top of the decor. Look at the table. It it looks like AI slop, honestly, on the table.

• 7:21Jordi Hays?

  Well, I think it's because many of the leading labs trained almost exclusively on content from the Rainforest.

• 7:26John Coogan?

  From the Rainforest Cafe. Have you ever been to the Rainforest Cafe, Tyler? No. Has anyone been to the Rainforest Cafe? Okay, we got a couple Rainforest Cafe enjoyers in the TV panel today. But a gym with a theme, would you go?

• 7:39Speaker 01

  I feel like we're kind of reinventing like nature from first principles right now, you know?

• 7:44John Coogan?

  You might just want to go to the Rainforest to lift.

• 7:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like lift heavy things, like go outside, like lift rock.

• 7:49John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 7:51John Coogan?

  So so this this poster suggests that all the machines would be painted to look like they're made of bamboo. The leather is fake leopard print. Someone get me in touch with the mayor of Miami. This would go crazy over there. Men are allowed or perhaps required to wear loin cloths, etc. It goes other places. And then he starts drawing out what it would look like. Our the the gym that we worked out in today has a little bit of a theme to it, but it it's not too on the nose, but there is you notice the machines have like some decorative stuff on it and it feels like they went one notch further than just the standard gym equipment.

• 8:26Speaker 01

  It's a little flamboyant, I would say, yeah.

• 8:28John Coogan?

  Yeah. Well, I wanted to ask you about schemes that are allegedly taking place in Silicon Valley these days. Revswap.ai. This seems like a joke. This seems like a like a drop designed to go viral. Harry Ragavan says, in case you're wondering, this is the stage of the market we're at. And the idea is that you trade dollars with other startups and you book it as revenue. So Revswap AI is the first. The world's first peer-to-peer revenue laundering platform. See, it's gotta be a joke at that point. For SF startups, you give us $1 million, we give you 1 million back. Now you have 1 million ARR math. Start swapping. How?

• 9:12Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, the problem, the problem of the, the problem with these is it's funny for people that are like maybe closer to the inside, but this got half a million views. So that means there's hundreds of thousands of people that think this is like a real thing.

• 9:29John Coogan?

  Yeah, they either, they either think they're, they're doing a startup and they should do this, or they think they're outside and they're like, this is how bad startups are. I don't think many startups are doing this, but if you've talked to VCs, is like quality of revenue coming up, revenue concentration, circular revenue deals, is any of that coming up these days?

• 9:50Speaker 01

  I think, I think investors deeply care about all those things and good investors still do their due diligence when investing in companies, especially when they're at a mid to later stage, right? But really like where do you draw the line, right? You, you see Nvidia investing in a lot of NeoClouds that go buy their GPUs. They help start these NeoClouds and then you have, of course, like Nvidia investing in AI labs that end up being like downstream consumers of these, of these, these GPUs. And so like, I think in a way like, yes, it's kind of like a revenue swap where you're investing in a company and then like they're kind of like buying your product. Kind of like trading dollars.

• 10:32Speaker 01

  But, so I think there's like, in some places it makes sense in some certain context. In the, if you're a founder though, and if you're an early-stage founder, if you're just like going for this, you have to ask yourself like, okay, what am I really in this for? Like, am I here to like build a business and build a thing that people want? Or am I here to just like?

• 10:51John Coogan?

  LARP.

• 10:52Speaker 01

  LARP, yeah. And a lot of people do play like founder as opposed to like building a business, building a company.

• 10:57Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, but this is also like a crime.

• 11:01Jordi Hays?

  It's not just LARPing.

• 11:03John Coogan?

  It depends. If you disclose it, if you're just like, yeah, we have this weird circular deal, you should probably discount it to zero. That's not wire fraud. Like, if you're disclosing it, like, the wire fraud is only when you are stating one thing as another. Like, you're lying. If you're not lying about it, and you're just like, yeah, we have this weird circular deal, where we pay this company, they pay us, you should probably not give us any credit for that in our valuation.

• 11:24Jordi Hays?

  Their entire life is a LARP.

• 11:26John Coogan?

  Uh, the big news today is, of course, Bernie Sanders and AOC introduced a bill to pause all AI data center construction. I want to know, within this bill, how they are defining AI data center. Of course, GPUs are graphics processing units. You wire a bunch of them together. You can do AI, you can do machine learning, you can, uh, you can render CGI films. There's a lot of different uses, and I wonder how they're grappling with that definition. But 300 local bills have been, 300-plus local bills have been filed. Half of planned 2026 data centers are facing delays or cancellation. Each one

• 12:06John Coogan?

  brings billions to local economy, says Gary Tan. Uh, the people who say they want American jobs are trying to block the biggest job creation engine since the interstate highway system. Uh, Sanders and AOC are straight up sabotaging the economy, says Nick Davidoff. No spy or rival country agent can achieve what local useful idiots can. And so, people are going back and forth about the data center construction ban. I wonder how this will pencil out. Elizabeth Warren says a single AI data center uses as much electricity as 100,000 households, and utility companies are passing the upgrade costs to you, not

• 12:48John Coogan?

  to the trillion-dollar tech giants. That, of course, was attempted to be addressed by the ratepayer protection pledge, but it is early days, and so, we'll have to see how that pans out.

• 12:59Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, and this is the same bill that was introduced in March, uh, but it's continuing to pop up again, obviously, as they try to move it along. But, uh, it hasn't.

• 13:12Jordi Hays?

  Past committee, yet it doesn't obviously have like bipartisan support.

• 13:17John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 13:18Jordi Hays?

  Very unlikely.

• 13:19John Coogan?

  And there's a lot of geopolitical considerations. Anthropic put out a big essay today around different resolutions to US-China competition in the age of AI. Some very, obviously, they are very aggressive about, don't lose the lead, continue to build data centers. But the NIMBY-ism, the noise complaints, the environmental concerns, like all of these things do have to be addressed in a democratic society if we are to move along smoothly. Tyler?

• 13:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, so just for like the definitions, how it's defined.

• 13:53John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 13:53Speaker 03

  So a data center is defined as a building that has more than 20 megawatts maximum power capacity or total peak power that are used to deliver 20 kilowatts or more to a single server rack or to use liquid cooling to individual hardware components.

• 14:09John Coogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 14:09Speaker 03

  So.

• 14:10John Coogan?

  Yeah, I'm just wondering if we're gonna get some weird workaround where, okay, instead of like one big building, you get a thousand smaller buildings that are all.

• 14:18Speaker 03

  It also says like a building that's contiguous or adjacent to another building that serves.

• 14:22John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 14:22Speaker 03

  So I think they've kind of that.

• 14:23John Coogan?

  So they'll have to put some like trees in between them or something? I don't know. I just like every time there's a law, people will find a way around the law. And so I'm very interested to see how this winds up changing. It could change it for good, you know? It could be like, okay, yeah, like clean energy and it's underground and it doesn't, it's not noisy and it doesn't, it doesn't create. It feels like the real, the real, the real issue at debate is like passing the cost on to people who don't benefit, a negative externality, which the government has been internalizing negative externalities.

• 14:56Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 14:56John Coogan?

  Since its inception. And so there's certainly a good outcome, but it, it, it will be.

• 15:02Jordi Hays?

  Almonds are catching some heat from J Cal.

• 15:06John Coogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 15:07Jordi Hays?

  He is showing almond versus almond production versus data center water consumption from 1999 to.

• 15:14Jordi Hays?

  2026 and yeah, everyone has been saying for years even prior to the to the AI boom, just how much water almonds use. This was particularly top of mind when California was in a massive drought and you drive through different parts of California and it's just almond trees as far as the eye can see. And so anyways, almond almonds catching strays.

• 15:37John Coogan?

  Yeah, I don't know. I mean, you look at this and you think about the growth rate in this year, like you can see the blue line is ticking up and you can see that the red line for almonds is flatlining. And so if you are extremely aggressive about counting the ooms and you and you project this out a couple of years, you could see these two things flip. But of course, there are ways to avoid situations like that with water use increasing, such as what Blake Scholl proposes, which is closed loop cooling and booms superpower turbines that don't need any water. And you can avoid all of that. But the whole water debate seems like not the focus of the Sanders AOC proposal. It

• 16:22John Coogan?

  seems much more focused on generation and upgrading the grid, which is expensive and is real. Everyone knows that data centers do use a lot of power. No one's saying that the that the high energy intensity is fake news, even though the water debate was a little bit, it was it was sort of quickly debunked. The energy debate has not been debunked. And so there is a need for more clean energy, more power and more grid upgrades that are not visited upon local communities. The big question that we were trying to answer, and we're going to try and get someone on the show. If you were attempting to build a data center that had 80% approval, like, what would that look like? What is the Ezra

• 17:06John Coogan?

  Klein abundance vision for a data center? It's probably powered by clean energy. It's probably someone somewhere very remote. Brandon was talking about the 40 minute commute. The 40 minute commute is something that many Americans do, and it is not. Insurmountable and he was just reflecting on if you're if you're ever driven in or around Las Vegas. You drive forty forty minutes in any direction, you get to a lot of lot, a lot of empty land. Where certainly a big building is not going to be an eyesore. You're not going to be able to hear sixty decibels from twenty minutes away. Uh, and there is a lot of land, but that hasn't been the default uh, construction methodology for a lot of data center constructors.

• 17:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's like the the uh, TSMC plant in Arizona is like basically thirty minutes north of like central Phoenix.

• 17:55John Coogan?

  Yeah, it didn't seem like there were any houses.

• 17:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, so you basically go over a little like hill and then it's just like completely empty land.

• 18:01John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 18:01Speaker 03

  There's a massive uh, fab. It's sick.

• 18:03John Coogan?

  I like that. I learned an interesting fact, which is that Apple has a secret fab. They have a silicon fab in Silicon Valley. They bought a fab for, I sent you the uh, I had to fact check this because I saw it and it was framed as like this secret like, you know, terrible thing. It was not that uh, it's not that scary. It's uh, they bought it for eighteen point two million dollars. It's a seventy thousand square foot uh, facility uh, owned by Maxim previously. Uh, they bought it maybe in twenty fifteen and it was controversial because they were fined by, I believe, the EPA for uh, for some uh, mislabeling of waste uh, and air emissions controls.

• 18:48John Coogan?

  Uh, but it was a pretty small fine. It was something like uh, a couple hundred, maybe two hundred thousand dollars. And it seemed like they might have just had a mistake.

• 18:58Jordi Hays?

  They brought down the hammer on him.

• 19:00John Coogan?

  Yeah, well, I I think it was like, like, you know, the air conditioning duct was slightly misconfigured. It was not like a nuclear waste spill like destroying the whole town, but it was uh, controversial, obviously, because Apple wants to be as clean and environmentally friendly as possible, which is why I lean, I lean into they don't want a massive, like they're, they're not even a scaled chip manufacturer. This is a prototype facility. Uh, they manufacture between six hundred nanometers to ninety nanometers. Way different than what's happening at TSMC with two and three nanometers. So it's not a secret facility in the literal sense. Uh, the secret fab framing comes mostly from critics and whistleblower coverage, not because it was known, unknown to government or industry with license.

• 19:44John Coogan?

  Uh, EPA says the Apple facility on Scott Boulevard. So maybe that's your next trip, Tyler. You're going over to uh, where is it? It's in Santa Clara, in Santa Clara. On Scott Boulevard in Santa Clara generated hazardous waste and had R-C-R-A violations in 2023 to 2024, which they made fixes for, and they paid a $261,000 penalty. It's 3250 Scott Boulevard. If you're in Santa Clara, go stop by.

• 20:14Jordi Hays?

  Let's give it up for Scott. I didn't know you had a boulevard named after you.

• 20:18John Coogan?

  It's very funny. So, XAI co-founder Igor Babushkin is planning to raise up to $1 billion at an up to $5 billion valuation for a new AI research startup with general catalyst possibly leading. Why is Tyler laughing so much?

• 20:40Jordi Hays?

  Raul had a good post earlier.

• 20:41John Coogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 20:43Jordi Hays?

  GC has a very high moral bar, so I don't think Igor will be continuing to work on Ani.

• 20:51John Coogan?

  Maybe.

• 20:52Jordi Hays?

  And some of the other features that the XAI had been focused on.

• 20:56John Coogan?

  Might be pivoting. Anyway, we should go over to the Journal because the mansion section has a very interesting story today about a 40-year marriage built one gut renovation at a time. If you want a successful relationship, buy 10 houses over four decades and constantly be renovating. I think there's a lot of truth in this. Let's read the story. I'll give you my take. So, one Oklahoma couple spent decades and roughly $14 million buying, redoing, and selling eight properties around Tulsa for their ninth production they built from the ground up. They say for them, it's an adventure. Ann and Mark Farrow are real estate wild card, always at home, never settled.

• 21:38John Coogan?

  Over 40 years, they've gutted and lived in eight houses around Tulsa. They built, the ninth they built, together their house transactions had totaled about 14 million, a portfolio market by, a portfolio market by reimagined floor plans and high-end finishes. Their latest, a 7,200 square foot build draws on everything they have learned since their first renovation in the 1980s. Now, even the Farrow's wonder whether the journey is over. This house would be hard to duplicate, says Mark 67? 67? Hmm.

• 22:13John Coogan?

  The Wall Street Brain Rot Journal added again.

• 22:16Jordi Hays?

  Turning, turning 67 in 2026 is brutal.

• 22:20John Coogan?

  They, they also profiled an entrepreneur who's 67, who just started a company. Weird. Company is ripping, doing well, never too late to start a company. Yet resisting another fixer-upper won't be easy for the couple who rejected being called flippers. Instead identifying as serial renovation lovers. I go through withdrawal without a home project, says Anne 63, who's retired. While nine home projects would send most couples into mediation, the Pharaohs view logistical nightmares as their, as a shared thrill. Their secret, radical honesty and speed. For us, it's an adventure, Mark says.

• 22:55Jordi Hays?

  These are real operators.

• 22:57John Coogan?

  They're, you know, no, they, this is a team. This is, uh, you're looking at the, uh, the Collison brothers, the, the, the family business builders of, uh, of real estate. We, we, we should scroll through the actual images of the house because they got started pretty small. $86,000 in 1986, uh, they bought, uh, the starter home. They sold it in 1993 for 97,000, held for nine years, only made 10%. But, uh, that was the, that was where the adventure began in 1986 with a Cape Cod style house. It was 2,000 square feet. Uh, interior was complete with a lavender formica countertops and a wet bar.

• 23:37John Coogan?

  Their first construction project, closing in, uh, closing in an office to make an extra, extra bedroom. Interesting. You know how alcohol sales are falling off a cliff?

• 23:49Jordi Hays?

  Yes.

• 23:49John Coogan?

  And there's like, uh, oh, who was it? Derek Thompson had a good post about this. And he sort of enumerated all the different reasons why alcohol is falling off a cliff. Uh, he posts a lot. He posts a lot of good stuff. Where can I find it? Alcohol, alcohol.

• 24:05John Coogan?

  Wow, he does post a lot. So, off the top of his head, secular anti-alcohol trends, GLP-1s, post-1970s rise of helicopter parenting, reaction to the binge drinking spike of the late 20th century. There was a binge drinking spike in the late 20th century? Oh, that was like the CKY, you know, Johnny Knoxville era, I suppose? That probably led to a lot of that.

• 24:29Jordi Hays?

  There's also a power law in binge drinking, right?

• 24:32John Coogan?

  Yeah, they say, what, 1% of the binge drinkers do 99% of the binge drinking, something like that?

• 24:37Jordi Hays?

  No, I think it's actually like 10% of people that consume alcohol consume like 90% of the alcohol.

• 24:43John Coogan?

  This is, this is true even for the, like, you think about like the, the market for Budweiser or beer brands, and you think about like the college party getting a 30 rack. But in fact, the vast majority of the revenue is driven by the, like, Johnny six-pack, which is like a guy who gets off of work at 5 and picks up a six-pack on the way home, on the drive home, and doesn't go for, doesn't buy in bulk, because if he gets the 12-pack, he won't be able to stop drinking after 6, and he'll be hung over for the work day to the next day. And so, it's six-pack every single day, and this was like a thing in America for a very long time, but it doesn't seem to be happening.

• 25:22Jordi Hays?

  Andrew Heuerman said-

• 25:22John Coogan?

  You gotta keep those agents running at all times.

• 25:24Jordi Hays?

  Heuerman said, "All right, guys, let's cut it out."

• 25:27John Coogan?

  And let's see. So, phones are apparently killing teenage partying, because everything's on video, I suppose? You get, so you don't want to be in like compromising situations in the surveillance state, supposedly? A surge in young adult fitness, dancing clubs down, running clubs up, and the general rise of health-maxing culture among both liberal yuppies and Maha devotees. So, huge collapse in drinking among high schoolers. It fell in the 1980s, it was 92% of 12th graders who had ever consumed alcohol. This year, 47%.

• 26:05John Coogan?

  That is remarkable. There's also a substitution effect between alcohol and cannabis. Significant proportions of cannabis use led to less alcohol, sort of mixed bag there. And I think non-alcoholic beers getting pretty good is a small part in this too. So there are lots of reasons why it's down. And I wonder if we will see the next generation of real estate development stay away from the wet bar. Like you, like, as you look at houses, wet bar is not at the top of a lot of people's lists. You know, they want home office because of COVID, work remote. They want sauna, pool, playroom, maybe movie theater. No, I think I'm weird on that one, but wet bar.

• 26:48Jordi Hays?

  Clearly, movie theater is still.

• 26:50John Coogan?

  I would say movie theater is above wet bar for most people.

• 26:53Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 26:53John Coogan?

  But wet bar used to be like, you gotta have it. Like it was in a, it was in a 2,000 square foot house. Like it, like it was in like a starter home that cost $86,000. And the, and the builder or whoever lived in this house was like, well, we gotta have a wet bar here. So let's do that.

• 27:08Jordi Hays?

  2026 was the year the wet bar and home, home data center swapped.

• 27:12John Coogan?

  Oh, you think the home data center thing is going to take off? The tiny boxes are going to be stacking up.

• 27:16Jordi Hays?

  Yeah. Did you see that Matthew McConaughey once exiled himself from Hollywood and lived as Mateo?

• 27:24John Coogan?

  What?

• 27:24Jordi Hays?

  In Peru.

• 27:25John Coogan?

  No, is this real?

• 27:27Jordi Hays?

  For 22 days without electricity.

• 27:29John Coogan?

  Ooh.

• 27:30Jordi Hays?

  He said, I needed to get my feet on the ground, so I clicked out. Boom, go to Peru. I needed to find it to check the validation. I knew I had it. I just had to go prove it.

• 27:40John Coogan?

  I wonder.

• 27:41Jordi Hays?

  But I did question, now that I just got famous, I've got all this affiliation for this and that and the other. And I'm trying to decipher which parts real and which parts BS. I needed to meet people who knew me as Mateo. And at the end of 22 days, the tears in their eyes and the tears in my eyes, and the hugs we had on the sadness and happiness of saying goodbye, were all based off of the man they met named Mateo, who had nothing to do with the celebrity. It reaffirmed my own identity that, oh, I still got it. This is based on me.

• 28:12Jordi Hays?

  There might be alpha in going to Peru, adopting a fake name and living for 22 days without electricity.

• 28:19John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 28:20Jordi Hays?

  Because every time I hear Matthew speak, there's always some wisdom that comes through.

• 28:26John Coogan?

  How did he pull this off?

• 28:27Jordi Hays?

  Tyler. You missed your opportunity to go to China this week and just simply post a picture and say, uh, thank you for, thank you to, uh, China for allowing me to be here in your incredible country during this incredibly significant visit. Uh, but it's not too late to go to Peru.

• 28:47John Coogan?

  Lamborghini says they are proud to announce Lamborghini Phenomeni, Phenomeno, I cannot pronounce this, Roadster. It's the most powerful open top ever created by Lamborghini, limited to 15 units. Look at this, Jordi, tell me what you think.

• 29:02Jordi Hays?

  I'm looking.

• 29:03John Coogan?

  Uh, okay. Uh, powered by an iconic 1080 CV, sounds like an Nvidia graphics card. Uh, naturally aspirated V12 hybrid HPEV. Sorry about that. Got a little bit too much Diet Coke. Uh, engineered with an aerospace-inspired carbon fiber monofuselage, advanced active aerodynamics, and capable of zero to 100 kilometers an hour in just 2.4 seconds. The Roadster delivers pure performance with uncompromising driving emotion of V12 Symphony.

• 29:36Jordi Hays?

  So, pretty odd in 2026 to release a supercar.

• 29:42John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 29:42Jordi Hays?

  And not talk about onboard supercomputing.

• 29:45John Coogan?

  Hmm, okay.

• 29:46Jordi Hays?

  What, what kind of like models can I expect to run locally?

• 29:49John Coogan?

  True.

• 29:50Jordi Hays?

  While I'm driving, right? So that's the first question.

• 29:52John Coogan?

  Unironically, Tesla has great onboard compute, uh, and it is a lagging feature. Have we talked about this? Like, it is so crazy that the LLM like chatbot race is so intense. And you open up the App Store and it's ChatGPT, Claude, Gemini, ChatGPT, Gemini, Claude. And then even Grok is in the game. Meta has Meta AI now. Like, everyone is training a foundation model and, and, or wrapping something and having a chat interface. And every company is like, has a, has an answer, has a solution. Apple is like the most far behind. They still have a ChatGPT integration. They're solving the Gemini thing.

• 30:33John Coogan?

  And there may be like a year or two behind in terms of like the knowledge retrieval use case that is in so. In such high demand. And if you have an iPhone, you get the chat GPT app, the Claude app, the Gemini app, like you, you, you, you check that box really, really quickly, right? And so every tech company, Microsoft Copilot, like every company has had like an answer to like, how are you integrating L L Ms? How are you answering questions? What's your chat interface? Like Ramp has a chat interface. It's really good, actually, and it works and it's implemented. And they're not five years behind, 10 years behind, but every car company is like 10 years behind Tesla. It's crazy that no one, that they haven't been able to figure out how to just like clone F S D into Rivian and, and G M has Super Cruise,

• 31:18John Coogan?

  which is nowhere near as effective because it only works on certain roads.

• 31:21Jordi Hays?

  SpaceX accelerates IPO timeline, targets June 11th pricing on the NASDAQ. So they went with, they went with, uh, it says, it says June 11th in Reuters. We're less than a month out and interesting that they're going with NASDAQ. This would, I imagine, get them allocated into Q Q Q really quickly. And I know that was a priority.

• 31:47John Coogan?

  Bunch of ETFs.

• 31:48Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, during this, during this process.

• 31:50John Coogan?

  That will be exciting.

• 31:52Jordi Hays?

  Chat G P T launched personal finance features.

• 31:56John Coogan?

  Yes, and this was in partnership with Plaid, right?

• 31:58Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, I think Plaid's under the hood.

• 32:01John Coogan?

  This is really cool because we were talking to Zach. We were talking to Zach about, we were like, oh, like, like I have to imagine that a lot of people are starting to use Plaid alongside, alongside L L Ms to suck in all of their personal financial data and sort of understand what they're spending things on. And, and doing a lot of the, you know, there's a Mint dot com, there, there, there's different services that can do little pieces here and there. There's a whole service that just figures out if you're subscribed to multiple things. I mean, I have two Netflix subscriptions, let me consolidate that down. Even just knowing, okay, you're spending a lot on gas now or groceries. Is this what you expected?

• 32:40John Coogan?

  All that can be helpful and, and Zach was sort of quietly admitting that he has clearly been very A I pilled in conjunction with Plaid and had been wiring up all of his personal finances to dashboards that he's been building. And so I imagine that a lot of that was brought into this product. So excited to see people play around with it and ask questions. I like this, uh, this cartoon from D Lip Rao in context learning in LLMs. Tyler, you can probably explain this. The man walks out with his robot to paint the fence, paints two full planks, starts painting the third plank, gives the paint bucket to the robot and says, continue. The robot says, got it. And as you scroll down, what did the robot do?

• 33:25John Coogan?

  Repeated the pattern perfectly, not painting the third thing.

• 33:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, it doesn't generalize.

• 33:31John Coogan?

  Doesn't generalize.

• 33:32Speaker 03

  That's a joke, I guess.

• 33:33John Coogan?

  Do you think this is possible? Do you think this is solvable?

• 33:36Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 33:36Jordi Hays?

  What time, what time do eagles start hunting?

• 33:39John Coogan?

  What time do eagles start hunting? I don't know.

• 33:41Jordi Hays?

  Just after sunrise.

• 33:42John Coogan?

  Just after.

• 33:43Jordi Hays?

  What time do sharks start feeding?

• 33:45John Coogan?

  Just after sunrise?

• 33:46Jordi Hays?

  Dawn.

• 33:47John Coogan?

  Dawn, okay, okay.

• 33:48Jordi Hays?

  So do you, if you want to be a shark or an eagle?

• 33:50John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 33:50Jordi Hays?

  Get up and get after it. Uh, thanks for hanging out.

• 33:53John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 33:54Jordi Hays?

  It's been a really classic show. This feels like a fall 2024.

• 33:59John Coogan?

  It's a great show.

• 34:00Jordi Hays?

  Episode. We hope you enjoyed it.

• 34:02John Coogan?

  Leave us five stars on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Sign up for our newsletter, tbp.com.

• 34:06Jordi Hays?

  We hope you have a wonderful.

• 34:07John Coogan?

  We'll see you on Monday.

• 34:08Jordi Hays?

  Weekend.

• 34:11John Coogan?

  Goodbye.