EP #16 AI is Creating Massive Entrepreneurial Opportunity w/ Emad Mostaque

In this episode, Emad and Peter discuss everything from AI-generated content and property rights to ethical implications along with the upcoming hyper-disruption wave of technology in all industries. You will learn about: 11:58 | How AI is going to affect Hollywood 31:31 | When AI creates your ideas for you, who owns the product? 42:44 | Emad's advice for 20-year-olds of today 1:18:47 | Should AI have a moral compass? Emad Mostaque is the CEO and Co-Founder of Stability AI, a company funding the development of open-source music- and image-generating systems such as Dance Diffusion and Stable Diffusion. _____________ Resources Learn about Stability. AI Access Stable Diffusion Levels: Real-time feedback on how diet impacts your health. levels.link/peter Consider a journey to optimize your body with LifeForce. Learn more about Abundance360. Read the Tech Blog. Learn more about Moonshots & Mindsets. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Speaker 00

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• 0:30Speaker 01

  So again, like if you're entrepreneurial, be an entrepreneur in this. If you are someone who can communicate, you communicate this to other people and you get paid a million bucks a year as a consultant, right? You organize information.

• 0:39Peter Diamandis?

  If you're an artist, if you're creative.

• 0:41Speaker 01

  If you're an artist, you become the most efficient artist in the world when you lean in on this, you know? Like, systems can be outcompeted. It's like the example of the steel mill, right? There were big vertically integrated steel mills that are competed by lots of little steel mills, micro mills, right? The big corporations, the big programs, the big things will be outcompeted by just individuals and small groups. Building on top of this technology can do anything.

• 1:08Peter Diamandis?

  And a massive transform to purpose is what you're telling the world. It's like, this is who I am, this is what I'm gonna do, this is the dent I'm gonna make in the universe.

• 1:20Peter Diamandis?

  Welcome, everybody. Welcome to Moon Shots and Mindsets. I am here with an old friend and a new friend, Imad Mustak. Imad, welcome. It's a pleasure to have you here. Thank you for having me. We're gonna have a such a fun, wide-ranging conversation across everything that is of, I think, importance to anyone listening, to any entrepreneurs, any CEOs, any government leaders, any kids. Everything that you're doing is really transforming the world. Let me do a proper introduction. Imad Mustak is the founder and CEO of Stability.ai, focused on amplifying humanity's potential through AI. You probably know Stability AI because if it's text-to-image model, Stable Diffusion,

• 2:02Peter Diamandis?

  released in 2022, which rocked the developer world and I think, you know, broke the internet is a good way to describe it. Previously, Imad is Been a hedge fund manager, an autism researcher, now has led multiple technology initiatives across multilateral organizations and governments. And an ex-prize competitor today. Imad is pursuing an incredible moonshot, actually a series of moonshots that could transform many industries. You know, I started by saying, which industries are you looking to disrupt? And your answer was?

• 2:35Speaker 01

  All of them. Could do better.

• 2:38Peter Diamandis?

  And I think that's not hype. I think that's actually, from what I understand, what we're going to explore, true. You know, scientists and technologists have been talking about AI for decades. But today is different, isn't it?

• 2:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, we always like say this time is different, but this time really is different. I mean, if you kind of look at it, AI is basically information classification. And we had classic AI, which was information goes in and then you extrapolate from a data set. You create really custom models and it goes out. Like the big AIs, internet too, was Google and Facebook, taking all that big data and then targeting Peter with like ads for rockets, you know, and things like that, because you know, like rockets. In 2017, we had a bit of a step change where there was a paper called Attention is All You Need. About how to teach an AI to pay attention to the important things.

• 3:31Peter Diamandis?

  Fascinating.

• 3:32Speaker 01

  And learn principles.

• 3:33Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, principle-based analysis.

• 3:35Speaker 01

  Principle, yeah. So it's not good old fashioned AI or kind of logic causal based AI, but it's kind of that. Because you remember like, there was a book, who was it, by? Type one, type two thinking.

• 3:47Peter Diamandis?

  Khan.

• 3:48Speaker 01

  Khan, yeah. So, you know, there's the very logical thing. There's a fricking tiger in that bush over there.

• 3:53Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 3:53Speaker 01

  You know, and we didn't have that second part. We didn't have the ability to kind of just leap to conclusions, principle-based heuristic-based thinking. You know, this is kind of the mindset thing, right? Whereby you construct these things and it allows you to go very fast to just amazing conclusions. That's part of what makes humans, humans.

• 4:09Peter Diamandis?

  Yes.

• 4:10Speaker 01

  It's here now.

• 4:11Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, leaping to conclusion, but so it's no longer extrapolation based upon data. It's actually learning to understand.

• 4:21Peter Diamandis?

  The meaning hidden in the data?

• 4:23Speaker 01

  Exactly. It's kind of semantic understanding, kind of. Literally, it's kind of called latent spaces, hidden layers of understanding. So like, um, I'll give you an example. One of the ways that I kind of entered AI was um working with AI to do drug repurposing for my son who has autism.

• 4:39Peter Diamandis?

  Yes.

• 4:40Speaker 01

  So he was two years old at the time and the doctor said nothing could be done. And I was like, oh, of course there's something can be done. Like, let's try and figure out information. Because all we're looking for is information, and it needs to come in time. It's kind of the Claude Shannon theory of information theory. Information is valuable and as much as it changes the state. So how do you find the valuable information amongst all those autism studies? And figure out what's going on, because no one can really explain to me what caused it.

• 5:01Peter Diamandis?

  So just one second there, because typically, people are looking for a very clear-cut answer in the data. That's obvious. But there are answers, but it's hidden.

• 5:13Speaker 01

  It's hidden. You know, it's kind of hidden. And so you have to look at things from a first principles basis, where you can't see things just from scanning everything. You have to dig down to the nut and then lay another layer. And kind of when I dig down, I kind of used AI to do um natural entity recognition. Look at all the different compounds, all the different trials that were tried, built a little team. Then built a biomolecular pathway analysis model of neurotransmitters in the brain. So it's like, just like a common cold, it seems like something very similar is happening. It turns out there's two neurotransmitters in the brain. One of them is GABA. You pop a Valium and chill out. It chills you out. And then another one is glutamate. And glutamate kind of makes your brain accelerate. And so you know, when you're tapping your leg and you can't focus and concentrate, that's what happens.

• 5:55Speaker 01

  Because humans are really a filtering entity, as it were. We have so much information in the world, it's just too much. So our brain creates a simulation. That's why we've got the optic nerve, for example, filled in instantly. We are kind of constrained a little bit, and that filtering allows us to focus. We all know what it's like when you're tapping your leg because there's too much stuff going on. So with kids with ASD, they couldn't filter for various reasons, but it was different reasons. Not enough GABA, too much glutamate. When you're born, GABA and glutamate are actually both excitatory, and oxytocin flips the switch on GABA.

• 6:23Peter Diamandis?

  Interesting.

• 6:24Speaker 01

  So we started digging down into kind of the things, and we're like, ah, different compounds can affect this in different ways. But then what was the upshot of that? And how is this long story coming to a conclusion?

• 6:34Speaker 01

  Because there's too much noise, my son couldn't speak because he couldn't formulate the hidden layers of meaning and connectivity on concepts. So kind of we've got cup here.

• 6:42Peter Diamandis?

  Yes.

• 6:42Speaker 01

  And you can cup your hands, you have a world cup, which England hopefully will win, you know, and you've got various other meanings of the word cup. You form this latent space of hidden connective meaning to that, so it can be applied in different things, the principle-based analysis. By reducing the amount of noise, you could then filter and pay attention and build that out. The AI can now do the same thing, so you don't need to have huge petabytes, exabytes of data anymore. With structured data, it can figure out interconnectivity.

• 7:08Peter Diamandis?

  And I want to come back to that because that's the revolution that that you're creating right now, just, you know, these personalized data sets that are are good for you, your country, your company, yourself.

• 7:21Speaker 01

  Your context, exactly. Because humans are heuristic animals. We learn by principle-based analysis and we are animals that are story-based. So you have multiple stories that make you up, you know, from your work on the X Prize to Humanitarian to, you know, Bold VC Fund and all the things. We all kind of form connectivity there, but those stories are very hard to map initially. Now we can do it dynamically and we can start building tools to re-augment human potential by doing this because we can finally have that assistance.

• 7:50Peter Diamandis?

  We're going to go so much, have so much fun on these conversations, but I want to take us back to some of, people around the world for the last year or so have have heard of Dolly and Dolly 2. And here comes Stable Diffusion, that is an open source version of of Dolly and Dolly 2 and has, as I said, broken internet. You sent me an image of the speed of growth on GitHub.

• 8:16Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 8:16Peter Diamandis?

  Of of people using Stable Diffusion. And it was so funny because you first sent me this image, right? Here you see it on GitHub, the the users who are like on Ethereum over time.

• 8:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:29Peter Diamandis?

  Right? And then there's this line that goes straight up that I thought was one of the axis for the graph.

• 8:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:37Peter Diamandis?

  Could you, like, what happened there? So first of all, what is what is Stable Diffusion? It's one product of your company, right?

• 8:44Speaker 01

  Well, Stable Diffusion is a community effort to build an AI that allows anyone to create anything. So words go in and then anything you describe comes out. Which is a bit insane.

• 8:56Peter Diamandis?

  Okay.

• 8:56Speaker 01

  So what we did is, you know, a collaboration with various entities, which we paid an important part on stable diffusion to is kind of led by us. We took a hundred thousand gigabytes of image label pairs, two billion images, and created a 1.6 gigabyte file that can run offline in your MacBook.

• 9:14Peter Diamandis?

  1.6 gigabyte file, which is relatively, you can transmit it over, over the phone network.

• 9:22Speaker 01

  You transmit it over the phone network, but you're needing to transmit it once.

• 9:25Peter Diamandis?

  Yes.

• 9:26Speaker 01

  Everyone having this tiny file that basically compresses the visual information of a snapshot of the internet can create anything from a high resolution render of a apartment to Robert De Niro's Gandalf or anything else. And they can now do it in a second. In a week, they can do one of those images in 30 seconds.

• 9:49Peter Diamandis?

  You mean one thirtieth of a second?

• 9:51Speaker 01

  One thirtieth of a second. We've just broken real time. We had a 30 time speed up in the last week.

• 9:54Peter Diamandis?

  So, so when you mentioned that, just as we were getting ready for this, I said, so you're basically able to render a virtualized world in real time?

• 10:04Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 10:05Peter Diamandis?

  And that's one step away from being able to virtual, to render a movie in real time?

• 10:11Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 10:11Peter Diamandis?

  So we are, are we on the verge of basically, and you know, we're sitting here in, in Los Angeles and you've been in the Hollywood world. I mean, are we talking about rendering motion pictures by just describing, writing, reading a script and having some, you know, stable diffusion 3.0 create a film in real time?

• 10:33Speaker 01

  Well, who needs to write a script? I did that.

• 10:38Speaker 01

  You just say, I want something to make me happy, right? And then it'll pull together various models and it can live generate a movie, yeah.

• 10:43Peter Diamandis?

  So we're live generating, so Hollywood, so.

• 10:47Speaker 01

  In the next five years.

• 10:48Peter Diamandis?

  Yes.

• 10:49Speaker 01

  I think that Ready Player One Oasis world minus the microtransactions of one teenagers will be here.

• 10:55Speaker 01

  Create anything you can imagine, iterate it, you know, dynamic, new forms of kind of communication, new affordances, like all these clicks and things like that, you don't need that anymore. Like, this is one of the biggest evolutions in humanity ever. Because the easiest way for us to communicate is what we're doing now, we're having a nice chat, right? Back and forth. Then the Gutenberg press came. And suddenly you could communicate through written form, and it's harder.

• 11:20Peter Diamandis?

  Yes.

• 11:21Speaker 01

  You know, but still you see now GPT three and other of these AIs have made it easier now for anyone to do anything like ChatGPT just came out, it's amazing.

• 11:28Peter Diamandis?

  I, yes, I saw.

• 11:29Speaker 01

  You know, from OpenAI.

• 11:30Peter Diamandis?

  Everybody's making extraordinary claims about what it's gonna do to Google.

• 11:33Speaker 01

  Exactly. Well, this generative search engine is a very interesting thing. Um, but then visual communication is the hardest. You know, like you toil to be an artist or all of, a lot of people on this call, how much have we toiled with PowerPoint?

• 11:47Peter Diamandis?

  Yes.

• 11:48Speaker 01

  We're gonna rid the world of the tyranny of PowerPoint.

• 11:50Peter Diamandis?

  But that's my expertise from a PowerPoint expert.

• 11:53Speaker 01

  You know, PowerPoint expert, you're a communication expert. So we remove the barriers whereby any visual medium can be created instantly and you just describe to it how it shifts. And because it's got these latencies, it understands happier or sadder. Or you can say flamboyant, and that's not a word, but it figures out what that kind of means.

• 12:10Peter Diamandis?

  But the ability to rapidly iterate it and say, okay, I don't like that movie scene, make it, you know, happier, make it brighter, make it more dramatic. And then being able to render any form of communications, like you just said, you know, a movie and have a thousand variants, I mean, what's gonna happen to Hollywood?

• 12:30Speaker 01

  I imagine Hollywood will be quite disintermediated.

• 12:32Peter Diamandis?

  Yes.

• 12:33Speaker 01

  Hollywood in everyone's thing. I mean, what is Hollywood, right? Hollywood emerged because it was far enough away from the East Coast that IP laws didn't apply, right? And then kind of it got constructed around here as an entity that extracted rents from performers ultimately and creatives. Like, how many creatives like the Hollywood or the music industry or others? Not many, because they tend to be treated quite badly. Some people achieve superstardom. But a lot of this technology now is just truly democratizing in that things are going from central To the edge and we had to create centralized organizations as a people because we didn't have the information classification and communication tools to be more dynamic.

• 13:13Peter Diamandis?

  Called the representative democracy. It's not a true democracy.

• 13:16Speaker 01

  Is representative democracy, exactly. At the same time, you know, everyone speaking at the same time doesn't make sense. But what we need, like the most successful organizations are complex hierarchical systems. It's groups of people working together loosely bound for a bigger story. And this is what we can achieve as humanity, like the human colossus when we all come together to do one big thing. But it gets blocked by a lot of the stuff because we're not communicating properly. Like one of the things I tell my team is that, you know, roadmaps are not about resources, they're about communication. If you communicate properly and something's good, you will always get resources for anything.

• 13:46Peter Diamandis?

  It's also about creating a common vision that Arby's aiming towards in order to get there. So you're not diversified in thousand directions.

• 13:54Speaker 01

  So like Google are full of amazingly smart people, right? They did an amazing study called Project Aristotle.

• 14:00Peter Diamandis?

  Yes.

• 14:01Speaker 01

  Cause it's like, why is one smart team better than another?

• 14:03Peter Diamandis?

  What was the finding?

• 14:04Speaker 01

  The finding was it came down to two things, common narrative and ideally something that kind of engages you and there's a bit of sacrifice, you know, like the.

• 14:12Peter Diamandis?

  So this is what Salim and I and Salim Ismail, who you know well, who sends his regards, talk about as a massive transformative purpose, having a unifying, really compelling emotionally charged vision that you're heading towards.

• 14:25Speaker 01

  Something deep and something that you've put yourself into as well. So it becomes part of your story, as it were.

• 14:30Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 14:30Speaker 01

  And the second part was psychological safety, which I think was.

• 14:33Peter Diamandis?

  Amongst the team.

• 14:35Speaker 01

  Amongst the team, the ability to actually express yourself and talk about something without fear of reproach. That's what makes the most successful teams because we're too scared often about kind of our status and worrying people and things like that. That's obviously on the research side of things primarily, but I think some of these lessons kind of come because when you feel comfortable as a community and you're working towards a massive transformative purpose. You can do a lot more because when you're falling behind, you can communicate it and you're not scared of people judging you.

• 15:00Peter Diamandis?

  And if you have an idea that's considered, you know, divergent from the, from the center, you feel, you feel open to being able to share it. In fact, it may well be the right idea. And I talk about the day before something is truly a breakthrough, it's a crazy idea. And if you're scared about actually putting forward a crazy idea, then you're stuck.

• 15:17Speaker 01

  Well, again, it comes back to information theory, Shannon style, right?

• 15:20Peter Diamandis?

  Yep.

• 15:20Speaker 01

  Information is only valuable in as much as it changes a state.

• 15:23Peter Diamandis?

  Yes.

• 15:24Speaker 01

  If everyone's on the same page with everything.

• 15:26Peter Diamandis?

  Flat equals dead.

• 15:27Speaker 01

  Exactly. And this is a time where we basically have to have exponential progress. And now we actually have the tools to help us make exponential progress. Like, you know, Facebook released Galactica recently, which is their language model trained on forty-two million science papers. They made some claims that were a bit hypey. And then people like, oh, you can use this to create racist science papers. And so they were forced to take it down. But I mean, it's an amazing piece of tech and we're going to help re-release it. And this is an interesting thing. You can use it to do things like a null hypothesis creator. You can use this AI to do all the sorts of things that enable more divergent original thought or creativity or any of these other things. That classical AI couldn't because it was out of mode.

• 16:10Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 16:11Speaker 01

  It was out of the data set.

• 16:12Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, of course. If it's not in the data set, then you're screwed.

• 16:16Speaker 01

  Whereas now, you don't need it to be in the data set. You can create new data.

• 16:19Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 16:20Speaker 01

  That's extraordinary.

• 16:21Peter Diamandis?

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• 17:01Peter Diamandis?

  If I eat bread by itself, I get this prolonged spike in my blood glucose levels. But if I dip that bread in olive oil, It blunts it. And these are things that I've learned from wearing a continuous glucose monitor and using the Levels app. So Levels is a company that helps you in analyzing what's going on in your body. It's continuous monitoring 24/7. I wear it all the time. It really helps me to stay on top of the food I eat, remain conscious of the food that I eat, and to understand which foods affect me based upon my physiology and my genetics. You know, on this podcast, I only recommend products and services that I use, that I use not only

• 17:43Peter Diamandis?

  for myself, but my friends and my family, that I think are high quality and safe and really impact a person's life. So, check it out. Levels.link/peter. Give you two additional months of membership, and it's something that I think everyone should be doing. Eventually, this stuff is going to be in your body, on your body, part of our future of medicine. Today, it's a product that I think I'm going to be using for the years ahead, and hope you'll consider as well. You know, when you go to your website, I love the notion of AI by the people for the people. And then you say, "Stability AI is building OpenAI tools that will let us reach our potential." Let's talk about that, because, you know, there's

• 18:28Peter Diamandis?

  a lot of individuals that you and I both know that are fear mongers around AI. You know, it's the devil, it's going to destroy us, it's going to... Superhuman AI is the end of humanity as we know it. And, I mean, my position is AI is the single most important tool we're ever creating to solve the world's biggest problems, and we can't solve our problems from where we were before, but these are the tools that are going to allow us. How do you... So, how do you address the Bill Gates, the Elons of the world on that side, the fear side?

• 18:58Speaker 01

  Well, I think fears are valid, because it's the most powerful technology we've ever created, and it comes from us. But then who is us, right? Like, if you look at our current data sets, they're massively biased, they're fixed towards the internet, and they're fixed towards manipulation. The way I kind of look at AI is that organizations themselves are AI. They are slow, dumb AI that feeds on us and turns us into cogs. In fact, there's this concept of Moloch, right, from the Ginsberg poem, you know, how, talking about this Carthaginian demon that pervades our organizational structures and turns us into these cogs that feeds on us, effectively. I think this is the first thing that can actually defeat that, this particular technology that we have today. Because, is the world happy? No. How many people in organizations are happy? We all know, you know?

• 19:40Peter Diamandis?

  We should talk about my idea for Happiness X Prize, but that's a different conversation.

• 19:44Speaker 01

  Happiness X Prize, but what is happiness? Happiness is agency. Happiness is achieving your potential and it's kind of going out there. So we need some help. But I think a lot of the AI discourse has been focused on gigantic language models and fricking supercomputers, which we still have, to create something that will equal and surpass us. It's very religious in its way. And you see parallels to religion across this.

• 20:04Peter Diamandis?

  Sure.

• 20:04Speaker 01

  In that you have the kind of declaiming people who like for it, the people who call it heretical. And then you kind of have most of ethics in AI is not actually ethics. Instead, it's ultra orthodoxy, as it were. Like in Islamic terms, everything is haram unless it's declared halal. You know, classic Judeo, ultra orthodox Judaism, etc. It's the same thing. People look at red teaming, they don't look at green teaming. Right? And they look at this technology as being too powerful. So just like cryptography, we should keep it from the people. And we definitely shouldn't give it to like emerging markets and people who aren't smart enough to do it. And that's going to be very interesting because, again, if you think about the power of it and you believe it's powerful, then the question should be, what is this? And I believe that this AI is infrastructure.

• 20:49Speaker 01

  Clayton Christensen, kind of the departed mentor of mine, had an amazing quote, which is that infrastructure is the most efficient means by which society stores and distributes value. Obviously, that's ports and things like that.

• 21:02Peter Diamandis?

  Sure.

• 21:03Speaker 01

  But it's also information.

• 21:04Peter Diamandis?

  Sure.

• 21:05Speaker 01

  And I think that's valuable when you can find it with the Shannon theory. So this AI is infrastructure for the next generation of human thought. And what's that mean? It should mean that it should be a commons that is accessible to everyone. It's going to leapfrog.

• 21:18Peter Diamandis?

  And you made a very definitive decision to make this an open source movement here.

• 21:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:26Peter Diamandis?

  And your community is how large now?

• 21:28Speaker 01

  I think we've got about one hundred and twenty thousand.

• 21:31Peter Diamandis?

  Amazing.

• 21:32Speaker 01

  In the communities. And we created communities across verticals. Classical open source is product related, where you have MongoDB or something like that, and then you go up there. Whereas we said language. Healthcare, bio-mel, audio. Let's get all the people who are fantastic in the private sector, public sector, actively independent together. And let's jam on, how do we build a next generation infrastructure? The way I put it is, let's go to the future and bring back AI with us.

• 21:55Peter Diamandis?

  Nice.

• 21:56Speaker 01

  And we can choose if it's a panoptic, uncontrolled by corporations like Web 2, or we can choose if it's open, an infrastructure for humanity. And if it's infrastructure humanity, then it's an important point, because I was just finding that. A lot of the naysayers around AGI and ASI and others, I would agree with them if it's controlled by corporations, which are this type of weird entity that we've created. Like YouTube optimized for extremism because it was engaging, so ISIS co-opted those algorithms. And they adjusted eventually, but it was slow. If it comes from us and it's biased and we've brought in the conversation, I think AI is more, far less likely to kill us all if it ever to become sentient, which is a big question, you know? Especially if it's representative.

• 22:35Peter Diamandis?

  So I want to come back to this in greater detail later, but I think we share a common belief that humanity ultimately is good.

• 22:45Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 22:46Peter Diamandis?

  At its fundamental level, because that's a very important distinction. If you believe that, that humans at their base are good and you're enabling humans with more and more powerful technology, they're going to be using that to make the world a better place and solve problems on the whole.

• 23:02Speaker 01

  On the whole, but it depends on what the perspective of humanity is. You know, you've kind of got, what's it called, the thing when you go to space and you look at Earth?

• 23:10Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, the overview effect.

• 23:11Speaker 01

  The overview effect. You know, like hopefully more and more people get into space and have that, because people are very narrow and they view themselves like that. The Rabbi Sacks, former chief rabbi of the UK, had a very wonderful concept called altruistic evil. Those who actually do evil believe they're doing good.

• 23:27Peter Diamandis?

  Interesting.

• 23:28Speaker 01

  And you see that, like, you know, if you talk to-

• 23:31Peter Diamandis?

  Especially in the religious.

• 23:32Speaker 01

  Religious, anything like that. I'm like, Isaiah Berlin's conceptualization, British philosopher from like the 1940s, he had a conceptualization of positive liberty versus negative liberty. So negative liberty was the freedom for anyone telling you what to do, led to kind of laissez-faire capitalism and things like that. Positive liberty was the ability to believe in an ism, something big, like fascism, communism, capitalism, Islamism, et cetera. And people use that as excuses, being that they're doing good to actually do bad. But then, how does this all relate to this? I believe people inherently want to do good. It's just that what good is can become misdefined and co-opted. And so my take was if we start building infrastructure where people can see bigger perspectives because they get the information they need, what does that look like?

• 24:16Speaker 01

  What if we mapped all the religious texts in the world? So that a child in Egypt could see Judaism from the perspective of a child in Jerusalem? We have the technology to do that. What if you could automatically translate T party, T party Republicanism into libertarianism? And have commonality there again, we finally have the technology to do that. But we didn't before, so people remain in their huddles.

• 24:37Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 24:37Speaker 01

  They look at the other and they're encouraged to do so. We've seen that increase in political polarization. So societies are tipping.

• 24:43Peter Diamandis?

  And by the way, we've seen, I mean, that's been what social media has effectively done so efficiently.

• 24:48Speaker 01

  Because it's beneficial for the algorithms and for the slow dumb AIs of the corporations that drive it.

• 24:55Peter Diamandis?

  Let's come back to the, to the company and the products, just to, to lay out the tapestry here. Stable diffusion is one product, vertical area. What are the other ones?

• 25:07Speaker 01

  So for example, our Luther AI community has GPT Neo and X. It's the open source version of GPT three by OpenAI. The most popular open language model in the world has been downloaded 25 million times.

• 25:19Peter Diamandis?

  Incredible.

• 25:20Speaker 01

  And so can you take it? You customize it for yourself, no permission needed, right? Harmoni has dance diffusion, which is the most advanced audio model in the world. You'll be able to create your music. So you put your own music in it and then you have your own music model that can create more music of your style.

• 25:34Peter Diamandis?

  And, and you can just basically produce it, produce your own concerts, extrapolate in any direction you want.

• 25:42Speaker 01

  Exactly. We have open bio M L where we kind of have open fold and Libra fold, protein folding, DNA diffusion for DNA protein matching. And open, so bio LM for again, some protein kind of stuff.

• 25:55Peter Diamandis?

  So in, you know, we've spent some time talking about a passion that I have and you share, which is the ability to truly transform the healthcare industry and in human longevity, understanding why we age, maybe why we don't have to.

• 26:13Speaker 01

  I think the why is the important part, right? Most of medicine, so again, when I, my son was diagnosed and scratching Walter's fingernails bled, you know, eventually went to mainstream school, thanks to interventions.

• 26:25Peter Diamandis?

  And I want to, I want to come back to those for those who are listening who. Have a child with autism or know someone. I want to come back afterwards. What were your learnings and what's your advice?

• 26:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's a lot in this space that we kind of occupy.

• 26:39Peter Diamandis?

  Of course.

• 26:40Speaker 01

  But like, what I realized is that conventional medicine and a lot of things view humans as a gothic. A thousand tosses of a coin is the same as a thousand coins tossed at once. Coins tossed at once. But humans are individual. So for example, a good proportion of humans have a cytokine P450 mutation in their liver, which means they metabolize things like fentanyl

• 27:03Peter Diamandis?

  Yes.

• 27:03Speaker 01

  and opioids far quicker.

• 27:04Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 27:05Speaker 01

  It's a very simple SMP test, but we don't do it. So we just prescribe everyone the same thing and then a bunch get addicted, you know, because we are individualistic kind of creatures. This is why I went to the first principles thinking kind of approach on this. And the question is this personalized medicine thing has always been kind of out there. We've not been able to reach it. Again, I think the technology we have right now enables personalized medicine. We've seen things like CRISPR, obviously, and others. But more than that, it's about data availability.

• 27:32Peter Diamandis?

  Sure.

• 27:32Speaker 01

  And viability.

• 27:33Peter Diamandis?

  We do need to get to a point where every child at birth is sequenced and that is plugged into their personal AI and they understand exactly every food, every medicine and every aspect of our of our living affects our our physiology.

• 27:46Speaker 01

  Again, you go to the future and you bring back the AI with you and you say, what should it look like? So you take a whole country and you say, how do we build an amazing healthcare system, education system, et cetera? Well, is there any doubt that healthcare and education will have AI at the core in 20 years?

• 28:03Peter Diamandis?

  Zero.

• 28:03Speaker 01

  Zero.

• 28:04Peter Diamandis?

  Well, I don't, I think it's not 20 years, it's 10 years.

• 28:06Speaker 01

  I know, but let's just say 20 years.

• 28:07Peter Diamandis?

  Okay, fine.

• 28:08Speaker 01

  You know, you and me, we're like, now, now, now, let's say 20 years, right? But then is that AI open or closed?

• 28:17Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 28:17Speaker 01

  And is it better for it to be open or closed?

• 28:19Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, there's no question. Open is fundamentally critical.

• 28:23Speaker 01

  Open is fundamentally critical because then we build, it is infrastructure, it is valuable. Like the way that I actually orient my rights, Vinay Gupta, who's one of the Ethereum guys, I think you probably know him, big thinker, slightly crazy. He had a very great conceptualization of rights, which I agree with, which is the rights of children. And so like effective altruism and all of that, looking at people a million years in advance is kind of difficult. And it comes down to utilitarianism, all sorts of weird stuff.

• 28:49Peter Diamandis?

  But the rights of a child.

• 28:51Speaker 01

  Rights of a child today.

• 28:52Peter Diamandis?

  Yes.

• 28:53Speaker 01

  Today, what does that child have the right to achieving their potential?

• 28:56Peter Diamandis?

  Yes.

• 28:57Speaker 01

  What infrastructure do we need to give that child in a refugee camp or in Brooklyn or in Kensington to help them achieve their potential?

• 29:04Peter Diamandis?

  And this goes back to what's on your website in terms of using AI to help, in this case, a child and in the broader case, humanity achieve its potential.

• 29:14Speaker 01

  Achieve its.

• 29:15Peter Diamandis?

  I mean, that's everything.

• 29:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. And so for me, it's about, I've oriented that on agency and happiness. And it sounds fuzzy, but it's literally when you have the tools to be able to do anything, you know, you can do anything. People underestimate their agency. Sometimes you've got to go for your shot, as it were.

• 29:32Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 29:33Speaker 01

  But again, it's information thing. What information can I bring to that person? What tools can I give them so that they can be creative? Because we lose that creative spark as we get older, right?

• 29:41Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 29:42Speaker 01

  Now it's coming back a bit, you know? What can I give them so they can access the information they need to be educated? And what's the optimal way to teach linear algebra?

• 29:49Peter Diamandis?

  And by the way, it's all about play.

• 29:51Speaker 01

  It's all about play.

• 29:52Peter Diamandis?

  It is all about play. Happiness, play, all the neurochemistry of your brain is maximized for learning, retention, experimentation around that.

• 30:00Speaker 01

  It's flow.

• 30:01Peter Diamandis?

  It's flow.

• 30:02Speaker 01

  So I used to be a video game investor. That was my big sector. It was one of the biggest in the world. And I used to judge video games by time to fun, flow and frustration.

• 30:11Speaker 01

  And so if we're building systems for humanity, we have to look at fun, flow and frustration.

• 30:15Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 30:16Speaker 01

  Because if we can get those, you know, when you're just learning something like, wow, this is amazing and kind of you get in there, it absorbs amazingly quickly. But our education system is not set up for that. Our healthcare system definitely isn't. And you've got a messed up healthcare system, I'd say.

• 30:29Peter Diamandis?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 30:29Speaker 01

  It's maximizing for frustration.

• 30:31Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, that's where I speak about it openly, saying my mission is to crumble and destroy the healthcare system. And also the education system, which is, which is really sad.

• 30:41Speaker 01

  So again, it's very interesting. You look at the US and inflation numbers. Education and healthcare, massive inflation.

• 30:47Peter Diamandis?

  Yes.

• 30:47Speaker 01

  Everything else not really.

• 30:49Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, and it's a percentage of the of a person's income is it's and it should be going to zero. Right. The top healthcare and the top education should be all AI driven. It's all basically the cost of electrons.

• 31:01Speaker 01

  Life expectancy is falling in the US.

• 31:04Peter Diamandis?

  A little bit over the last couple of years due to COVID, yeah.

• 31:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, but no, before COVID, before COVID, it was falling. I mean, that's the thing, whereas, again, it's not complicated, but it does require coordination. So the question is, can you create shelling points? So for me, open source software, this next generation, this model based one whereby stable diffusion is basically a programming primitive. Just like you have a library to do various things for the programmers out there. So in the good old days when we started programming, we used to have to code everything by hand. Now you've got GitHub and things like that. It's more like playing with Lego, right?

• 31:37Peter Diamandis?

  Yes.

• 31:38Speaker 01

  And you're sticking it all together. It's a new type of thing, a 1.6 gigabyte file that is hashed. So it can be common across every single computer in the world that you can call something in and image comes out. And you know predictably what that is, no matter where you are. And you can also take an image and put text on the other way.

• 31:56Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 31:57Speaker 01

  That changes the paradigm. But then what if you have that for language, audio, all these different modalities?

• 32:01Peter Diamandis?

  Okay, I'm going to go. I'm going to go here next then on that, which is what happens to intellectual property rights, IP rights? Who owns the IP of those images? Is it the person who puts the prompt in? Is it, you know, help me understand where that where that evolves to?

• 32:19Speaker 01

  Nobody knows.

• 32:20Peter Diamandis?

  Nobody knows. Okay, it's a fair answer.

• 32:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, nobody knows. I personally think it should believe it should belong to the person that prompts it. Because again, kind of we put this out as a commons for humanity.

• 32:29Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 32:30Speaker 01

  Um, like we did put an ethical use license around it for various reasons that will be replaced by a purely open source license. But again, I'm viewing this as building blocks, right? It's really the person that has the action because these models do not have agency. If you kind of breach property right, you can type in, I want a picture of Mickey Mouse. And then if you sell that, done. But it's like photos, it's like the telephone, it's like internet, it's like Photoshop. This is a tool, but it's a tool of a very different type. Because like something like Photoshop is a million lines of code. This is a binary file that can do anything that Photoshop does, but you still need to act on it.

• 33:05Peter Diamandis?

  Last year, there was a patent awarded to an AI in South Africa, which was interesting. I think more of a gimmick than anything else. Do you imagine these these models will lead towards significant intellectual property on the invention side of the equation?

• 33:22Speaker 01

  Oh, 100%. They already are. If you look at Google's new TPU chips, they're partially built by AI that they built.

• 33:26Peter Diamandis?

  Sure, yes.

• 33:27Speaker 01

  I know, like, we just released OpenLM from our Carpalab, which is an evolutionary algorithm for code for robots. So we're trying to optimize robotics via that. And then when we bring in video, we'll have even better robots. So.

• 33:43Peter Diamandis?

  Are we going to get to a place where I'm saying, listen, I'm, please invent a device that does this for me, that's under this price point, that's made of commonly available materials? And over, you know, constrain it left, right and center, and then design it now, go and print it for me and deliver it for me the next day. We're going from mind to materialization in one sense.

• 34:03Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 34:03Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 34:04Speaker 01

  I mean, you know, again, it's kind of the, was it the Star Trek thing?

• 34:07Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 34:08Speaker 01

  But it's a little bit longer.

• 34:09Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, it's the, oh my God.

• 34:12Speaker 01

  We've both forgotten it.

• 34:13Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 34:13Speaker 01

  Anyway, you know, when you.

• 34:14Peter Diamandis?

  The replicator.

• 34:15Speaker 01

  The replicator, exactly.

• 34:17Peter Diamandis?

  Earl Earl Grey tea hot.

• 34:19Speaker 01

  Exactly. But then you can kind of see this already because like there's an app on the App Store right now. You put all your Lego out and it scans all the Lego.

• 34:27Peter Diamandis?

  Ah, nice. And what can you build with it?

• 34:28Speaker 01

  Yes, it comes up with this is how you build it as well. So it figures out you can build birds and cars and things like that. So they go.

• 34:37Speaker 01

  So this is just an extension of that. Again, they use a transformer based architecture for that.

• 34:41Peter Diamandis?

  Well, I'm interested when it'd be fun to say, okay, create me new life forms. I mean, we're not far from that.

• 34:48Speaker 01

  Well, you know, I'm going to leave that to other bioethicists. I don't want to go step my foot in that one.

• 34:53Peter Diamandis?

  But wait, there's there's ethics involved in that?

• 34:56Speaker 01

  Exactly. I mean, the life form thing is very interesting though, right? Because again, everything is happening all at once. And so it's not just biology or physics or sociology. All these models, all these technologies all seem to be converging at once. So you can create anything and all the barriers are dropping at once.

• 35:15Peter Diamandis?

  So.

• 35:15Speaker 01

  And that's complicated.

• 35:16Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah. So the world is. Do you think anybody truly understands how fast the world is about to change?

• 35:24Speaker 01

  No, I mean, like, look at creative industry, video games, $180 billion a year, like Disney spends $10 billion a year, Amazon 16 billion a year on content. All of that's going to change in the next couple of years alone, just from one tiny little 2GB file.

• 35:39Peter Diamandis?

  Extraordinary, as well as healthcare, as well as education, as well, as you said, every single industry, we're gonna... So here's another question, go ahead, please.

• 35:49Speaker 01

  Well, I was gonna say, industry is about, again, information theory.

• 35:52Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 35:52Speaker 01

  That's all, most industries are based on that, especially service-based industries. And so, once you can basically take a system, you can have human input in the loop to train a system that's a generalist, to understand principles, you disrupt just about everything.

• 36:06Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, I'm gonna pause on that because it's, it's probably one of the most important things. Any entrepreneur, any CEO, any parent, any kid, anyone needs to understand we're about to enter a period of, of hyper disruption and growth and hyper opportunity creation.

• 36:23Speaker 01

  Yes, like, what happens is that in any area you create, there are value spikes. You can look at it as like a flat area and then companies and individuals occupy certain areas. They've got like a mix of skills, right? And that's how you earn your living. And these are like spikes, that's all gonna get shaken up and it's gonna be, the value is elsewhere.

• 36:42Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 36:43Speaker 01

  We don't know where the value will be, we've got some guesses. So like, in a time when everyone can make anything, what becomes valuable? Something.

• 36:50Peter Diamandis?

  Yes.

• 36:50Speaker 01

  So if a model that can make anything, that means Disney should have their own models, right? To create Mickey Mouses and things like that. But now they can use that not only internally to save money on creation, they can use externally. Why can't we have Mickey Mouse having coffee with Master Chief at a Starbucks and Microtransact pay that? It's been the promise of the NFTs and things like that. Now with these models, you can do that seamlessly.

• 37:11Peter Diamandis?

  On demand, over and over again. So one of the realizations for me is that this open source technology made available to everyone effectively has the potential to make everyone the equivalent of millionaires, billionaires, trillionaires, when whatever you want can be manifested. Right? You can have the world's best education for your child, independent of where you live and what wealth you have. You can have the best healthcare available. You can have customized entertainment. You can, you know, it's, we end up in a world in which the cost of anything is raw materials in IP, which is going to be disrupted itself, and electricity.

• 37:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, pretty much. Again, like, you look at what Elon Musk did with SpaceX, right? He's like, let's break it down to what is the constituent cost of this?

• 38:05Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, basically went to first principle of thinking on rockets.

• 38:08Speaker 01

  First principle thinking. So what I've been doing is first principles thinking on information flow, social theory, and our systems. It all comes down to just information being in the right place at the right time to make the maximum impact. And if we can give that as an open architecture to the world, then we can augment and then replace our existing systems with better ones, because they outcompete. You go to an African nation and you teach every child with an AI that teaches them and learns from them, within a few years, they will be outcompeting children in the top schools in New York. What if you give them the ability to code the system as well and improve it? It becomes very interesting.

• 38:43Peter Diamandis?

  The kids are helping train the AI and the AI is helping train the kids.

• 38:46Speaker 01

  Yes, but then also the kids can improve the actual code that they have there.

• 38:51Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 38:51Speaker 01

  Like, this is something that we've seen in a

• 38:53Peter Diamandis?

  Virtuous, a virtuous cycle.

• 38:54Speaker 01

  A virtuous cycle. And you make that open, and then you make it transplantable. Because what you have then is you have models that are standard, like a base. So I like to call stable diffusion one was a precocious kindergartner. Then it was a precocious high school, stable diffusion two. Stable diffusion three looks freaking amazing. It's going to be like a university level student.

• 39:12Peter Diamandis?

  So stable diffusion three, by the way, is the real time rendering?

• 39:15Speaker 01

  No, that's stable diffusion two.

• 39:17Peter Diamandis?

  That's two, okay.

• 39:18Speaker 01

  So again, like, to give you an example of the thing, when we launched stable diffusion one on a top end A100, which is like a super souped up supercomputer chip, right? We have a lot of those. We can talk about the supercomputers in a bit. It took 5.6 seconds on August the 23rd when we launched it.

• 39:35Peter Diamandis?

  To render a single image?

• 39:36Speaker 01

  Render a single image in 512 by 512.

• 39:38Peter Diamandis?

  Okay.

• 39:39Speaker 01

  Today, it takes 0.9 seconds in 768 by 768. We've just sped it up 30 times.

• 39:46Peter Diamandis?

  Amazing.

• 39:47Speaker 01

  30 times.

• 39:48Peter Diamandis?

  I'm still blown away by the real-time rendering of the world.

• 39:52Speaker 01

  Once you get below 200 to 220 milliseconds of response time, it opens up entirely new URUX. And we didn't just release stable diffusions as image creator. We also released an in-painting model. So you could take, you know, Emma's hat and you could turn it red just by describing it. We released a depth image model so you could do transformations. We released an upscaler. So you can have a 64 by 64 image and the AI fills in all the details to take it to 1024 by 1024. Transforms the storage industry for media.

• 40:19Peter Diamandis?

  Amazing.

• 40:20Speaker 01

  And this is real time now as well.

• 40:21Peter Diamandis?

  So, listen, I have to ask you the question, but come back to it later, which is, do you believe we're living in a simulation?

• 40:27Speaker 01

  Um.

• 40:28Peter Diamandis?

  Yes or no?

• 40:29Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 40:30Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, as do I. I think we're living in an nth generation simulation, but that's a different story. Okay, we'll come back to that for folks who are interested. But, okay, how far out are you able to imagine this world that you're creating? The disruption of industries, the transformations? How many years out?

• 40:53Speaker 01

  I don't know anymore. Like, when I started, so I funded the entire open source art space from January of last year when it started, because you had a generator model. And then openly, I released this clip model, which took images to text. We bounced things back and forth for each other. We were like, wow, that's the way to do things. Creators and discriminators, as it were.

• 41:10Peter Diamandis?

  Yes.

• 41:11Speaker 01

  And it's advanced, advanced. I was like, this is the next big thing. Humans can now communicate visually.

• 41:15Peter Diamandis?

  Right.

• 41:16Speaker 01

  It's the next biggest thing since Kudo Makepress. And it kind of went as expected, plus, minus six months. I thought we'd get to stable diffusion in Q1, Q2 of next year. And that was a big, massive, but I built a gigantic supercomputer and everything. To get to real time, I think it will take another year or two.

• 41:32Speaker 01

  And instead it took like four weeks. And like, again, this is what you mentioned earlier. The number of GitHub stars now for stable diffusion is more than Ethereum and Bitcoin and just about everything else. And that took them 10 years in three months.

• 41:45Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, I, I, I mean, again, it's the notion that people have no idea how fast the world is changing and is accelerating.

• 41:52Speaker 01

  And it's the, this what you come back to with the common mission and the energy.

• 41:56Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 41:56Speaker 01

  When you sent your first Bitcoin, it was an amazing experience. They got overtaken by raccoons and stupidity and, and they tried to create alternative system outside the existing system. The interfaces were all the robbery and all the profits were made. This is something different whereby you're talking, when we talk to developers and the contributors that are increasing in the ecosystem, they're so energized. And this is what drives things forward. Like when you see teams that do the biggest things, they have that energy. It's almost palpable, right?

• 42:24Peter Diamandis?

  Mm hmm.

• 42:24Speaker 01

  Where it's like that driven thing, but we've got people from all over the world. Like one of our latest developers was an Amazon warehouse worker at the start of this year who taught himself to code. And now he's building the most advanced models in the world. We've got 16 year olds to 62 year olds.

• 42:37Peter Diamandis?

  And it's a team of how big?

• 42:40Speaker 01

  So our team is 137.

• 42:41Peter Diamandis?

  But the, but the developers who are creating.

• 42:43Speaker 01

  500.

• 42:44Peter Diamandis?

  Well, but their teams of one, right? Their team and their individuals were able to use this to create.

• 42:49Speaker 01

  Oh yeah. So like, if you want to create with this, you can just do it by yourself. So there's a fantastic Twitter, you can look at levels.io. And he's like, I'm going to create businesses by myself.

• 42:58Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 42:59Speaker 01

  That are making millions of dollars of things just because you took this primitive and he wrapped things around it and you're just making money. Like Avatar, you can put your own face into the model. 10 images, you can create a Peter Diamandis model and we can put you in space. In fact, we'll do that a bit later.

• 43:13Peter Diamandis?

  So listen, you're, you're listening, you're a 20 year old entrepreneur, you're in college, you're, you know, finished, you've skipped college, whatever it is. What are you, what's your advice to that 20 year old listening right now?

• 43:27Speaker 01

  You should drop everything, you should focus entirely on this. This is the biggest shift ever. Self-driving cars, $100 billion went into crypto, hundreds of billions of dollars crypto into. A hundred billion, a trillion dollars is going to go into this sector.

• 43:40Peter Diamandis?

  Say that again, how much?

• 43:41Speaker 01

  A hundred billion in the next few years and then a trillion dollars will go into this sector because it's so transformative and so few people understand it. There's never been something, a technological advance that will diffuse as fast as this.

• 43:53Peter Diamandis?

  So this is electricity, this is. The Gutenberg press times a billion.

• 44:00Speaker 01

  This is the Gutenberg press times a billion because it's not just writing. It's image three D.

• 44:05Peter Diamandis?

  It's everything. It's creation.

• 44:06Speaker 01

  Protein folding.

• 44:07Peter Diamandis?

  It's creativity and extrapolation. So what does it look like to focus on this? So you're again, you say, drop everything and focus, and I get that. And, and I, you know, part of me is like, maybe I should do that too. But what does it look like to focus? What would a person do?

• 44:25Speaker 01

  So again, like if you're entrepreneurial, be an entrepreneur in this. If you are someone who can communicate, you communicate this to other people and you get paid a million bucks a year as a consultant, right? You organize information.

• 44:35Peter Diamandis?

  If you're an artist, if you're creative.

• 44:36Speaker 01

  If you're an artist, you become the most efficient artist in the world when you lean in on this, you know, like systems can be outcompeted. It's like the example of the steel mill, right? There were big vertically integrated steel mills that are competed by lots of little steel mills.

• 44:50Peter Diamandis?

  Sure.

• 44:50Speaker 01

  Micromills, right? The big corporations, the big programs, the big things will be outcompeted by just individuals and small groups. Building on top of this technology can do anything.

• 45:02Peter Diamandis?

  But we, and we've seen that over and over again in every, every converging exponential field. We've seen entrepreneurs disrupting and the rate of, you know, I think of this as the asteroid impact that the slow lumbering dinosaurs all die and the furry mammals are the ones that rapidly evolve.

• 45:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, like, let's take a practical example. And this is what we said a bit earlier about chat G P T. Why does anyone need to use Google image search in a year?

• 45:27Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 45:28Speaker 01

  Where you can create any image just by describing it and then iterate it just with your words.

• 45:31Peter Diamandis?

  Yes.

• 45:32Speaker 01

  Just attribution, that's it. But that's an easy lookup table.

• 45:34Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah. True, absolutely. So now let's take it, okay, the 20 year old, drop it. Start experimenting, start playing, start using. Now you're running a company. You're running, you know, a hundred million dollar company, worse off a billion or 10 billion dollar company. And you see this, how fearful should you be? And what should you be doing?

• 45:59Speaker 01

  Again, you should be leaning in to understand this. The classical innovation process inside a company is very limited. You should be having kind of a crack team of people who are just given freedom to say, how can this potentially change my entire company? You know, um, but it's hard because you are fighting against the inertia of your company. You're fighting people being used to certain ways of interacting or certain ways of distributing stuff.

• 46:23Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 46:23Speaker 01

  So this is why I think you have to think and think again from first principles. If this technology is real time, fast across modalities and it can look and understand stuff. Let's go forward five, 10 years and work back.

• 46:37Peter Diamandis?

  Mm hmm.

• 46:37Speaker 01

  Does my company still exist in this current format? Can I out compete that? If not, how can I fold these into my current processes and procedures, et cetera? Because this is the other thing, as a true exponential, like the AI research actually in this area, 80% of all AI research has become in this area in the last few years. And it's exponential with a 23 month rate of doubling, a true exponential. The adoption of this now is also exponential because everyone from around the world is using it. And then each of those introduces another two people.

• 47:07Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 47:07Speaker 01

  It goes four and four and four. So right now it's like a wave that's under the surface. It just hasn't come yet.

• 47:14Peter Diamandis?

  Hmm.

• 47:14Speaker 01

  Next year is when it cracks and the year after is when it crashes.

• 47:22Peter Diamandis?

  I hear you and um, my reaction is I'm excited as hell about that. Right? It's like, because, because it's about transforming the inefficiency of the world today. It's about taking individuals and empowering them to do, to giving them agency, like you said.

• 47:42Speaker 01

  But this is very interesting. Inefficiency is where value is created in the current paradigm in some ways or where value is created.

• 47:50Peter Diamandis?

  Because efficiencies exist.

• 47:52Speaker 01

  Where value is captured by inefficiencies. So we have to have, we go to the gatekeepers and we give them, like you pay your lawyers loads of money, right? Pay your accountants and other things like that because there are inefficiencies in the system. So you pay them to remove the inefficiencies, as it were. Some of these inefficiencies will no longer remain in the system. But that means that that value capture will also disappear. And again, this is why, you know, you have to start thinking, how, where does the value look like in the new reconfigured landscape?

• 48:21Peter Diamandis?

  Do you have an example in an industry that exists today? And just to make this concrete for someone.

• 48:27Speaker 01

  Sure, you don't need lawyers anymore for everything.

• 48:30Peter Diamandis?

  Awesome.

• 48:31Speaker 01

  I mean, like, you know, you've got do not pay dot com has done massive things. They automatically write your tickets for you and kind of.

• 48:37Peter Diamandis?

  Yes, right. For those who don't know, it's if you got a parking ticket and you go to do not pay, they will figure out the legal loopholes and arguments to get you off your ticket.

• 48:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, but like you still need litigators, right? At what point can you have a robot litigator? It's like Phoenix Wright on steroids, right? You know, if you've got the, again, movie creation thing, movie creation is just going to transform completely. Yeah. Video games, you'll be able to have your user generated content. You know, like, again, people can right now use stable diffusion, create any image. They can go to chat G P T. It's an amazing system by OpenAI and they can chat with them like, oh, okay. That disrupts a lot of industries as well because it knows the different things. But it's just a model, it's a blob. It doesn't look on the internet. What happens when you hook up these models that are principal based to the internet? Stable diffusion plus Google image search is actually incredibly powerful. But people are just looking at stable diffusion.

• 49:32Speaker 01

  Stable diffusion as part of a architecture is incredibly powerful. People are making movies. So like, if you look at our friends at the corridor crew, for example, they did a movie called Spider-Man Everyone's Home, where they created a custom model based on the Spiderverse movie with Miles Morales.

• 49:48Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 49:49Speaker 01

  Couple of days, they created a three minute trailer that blows away anything big studios can do. Just a few people, a few thousand bucks.

• 49:57Peter Diamandis?

  Let's go to a few general questions on on A I. First of all, you come out of the hedge fund industry. I have to imagine that the day of the trader investing on their own without the use of

• 50:14Peter Diamandis?

  any of these technologies is long, long gone. Does anybody have an, you know, have any advantage on their own?

• 50:20Speaker 01

  I mean, I think that's the thing, what's what's an edge in trading, right? And again, it comes down to information theory. What can move the Apple stock 50%? Very little information. What can move at 5%? A decent amount of information, 1%, quite a lot of information, right? So we're always looking at the narrative and the incremental narrative of this because again, as humans, we're heuristic creatures. So like I used to be a specialist in a number of markets, oil market was one. An oil barrel is fungible going around the world because you can just ship it on a ship.

• 50:47Peter Diamandis?

  Sure.

• 50:48Speaker 01

  But the impact of a Libyan barrel going offline was a third as impactful as an Oklahoma barrel. Why? Because of most of the money is in the West as opposed to near Libya. So they feel it more and the market reacts more. The market is a counting mechanism and a voting mechanism. I think the tools that people will use for investment are going to change now. Because you'll be able to actually visualize stories better and people will kind of introduce that. This is kind of why people like invest on themes like ESG and you have these index trackers and all these other things. So I think that's going to be very interesting, but then which industries will be disrupted faster than others? We don't know. Who will be at the edge and the forefront of this embracing this technology? And then who can be left behind? We don't know. So I think the entire stock market is going to change and adjust.

• 51:30Speaker 01

  It could be a period of supernormal profits and then out competition as well. And this is against a backdrop of inflation and recession and all sorts of crazy stuff all at the same time.

• 51:42Peter Diamandis?

  So will you be using this technology to assist a hedge fund manager out there on investing?

• 51:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, I can run for my own hedge fund. No, look, I mean, again, I think this technology would be pervasive because people again will see the power of this. And ultimately, like I said, investing usually comes down to stories. You know, like for all you

• 52:06Peter Diamandis?

  Influencing influencing human desires and intention.

• 52:09Speaker 01

  Exactly. Like, you know, if you're doing VC to fund management to whatever, you've just basically, you've got a story. You can say for all you want that you're trying to be like quantitative and this and that. But nobody knows the future, so you construct a story, but you know, you're saying, what is the evolution of that story going to be such that someone will buy this from me at a higher price? That's all that matters. And part of it, like, you know, for entrepreneurs, one way that I suggest to look at things is what's the terminal value? You get someone to agree to that. All you're doing when you're raising money is you're de-risking your path for that terminal value. And people don't realize that's all of investment.

• 52:45Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, it's a very simplified view of it. So I'm excited to have you speaking at a Bunnens 360 this year. Thank you for joining us in March.

• 52:53Speaker 01

  Thank you for having me.

• 52:55Peter Diamandis?

  And, you know, I've dedicated an entire day. We've added a fourth day of the program focused on AI because it's just, I think people need to understand how powerful and disruptive and a view of what's coming. Another one of our rock star speakers there is someone who you know, Ray Kurzweil. And Ray's going to be joining us to speak as well. And, you know, it's been Ray's long held belief that we're going to reach human level AI by 2029, however you want to define that. What's your, what's your thought about that? Do you think that that is the case? How do you think about it?

• 53:37Speaker 01

  Well, trying to see singularity in the area. Again, however you define it, I think my ideal view is that a future that's an intelligent internet, every person, country, culture and company has their own models and they're all interacting with each other in an optimal way for humanity. So again, I kind of go to this thing of, you know, Tim Urban in Wait But Why, when he wrote the article about Neuralink, had this option, this discussion of the human colossus. I would like AGI to be something of all of us, working for us to make us better. And I think part of this is why I'm basically pushing open source and these open source models. And I've created an organization that goes and has all these verticals that will then

• 54:21Speaker 01

  be spun off into independent organizations. So we can standardize the architecture across that. And it can be an emergent global consciousness, as it were.

• 54:29Peter Diamandis?

  I think it's important for us to talk about the idea of these, these models and these personalized models to understand what that means. So when you build a massive model that is trained on everything out there, it's not really necessarily useful. But you talk about creating models for nations, for cultures, for companies, for individuals. Can you just give us the 101 on that so people understand the power of that and the value of that?

• 54:59Speaker 01

  Sure. Knowledge evolves at different places, right? There's knowledge on how to use a toilet that's been with us for many, many years, you know, versus knowledge on foundation models, which is just very new. It kind of kind of fascinates us like paste layering, as it were.

• 55:12Speaker 01

  I think the way that models will be built is that you should look at them as like pizza bases. So we're trying to figure out what an optimal pizza base is for a generalized image model. Then you've got maybe an Indian model with a bit of culture in there and then Indian fashion in there and then Indian fashion for Ahmad to try and be fashionable when he's in India. And so you can kind of look at those as bases because what we do is again, we flip the paradigm. So to train stable diffusion, like we built a four thousand A one hundred cluster with our buddies at Amazon. To put that in context, the fastest supercomputer-

• 55:42Peter Diamandis?

  Four thousand A one hundred cluster.

• 55:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:45Peter Diamandis?

  It's huge.

• 55:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, to put it in context, the fastest supercomputer in the UK, Cambridge One, is six hundred and forty. We've got about ten times the compute of NASA.

• 55:52Peter Diamandis?

  Wow.

• 55:53Speaker 01

  Roughly speaking, it's one of the top ten in the world and next year it'll go ten times bigger.

• 55:57Peter Diamandis?

  Yours will go ten times bigger.

• 55:58Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 55:59Peter Diamandis?

  Okay.

• 55:59Speaker 01

  And we make that available to everyone.

• 56:00Peter Diamandis?

  And it's on, it's on the Amazon cloud?

• 56:03Speaker 01

  It's on the Amazon cloud, yeah, because it would have been a bit too much for us to build it by ourselves. So we got them to lean in on that and kind of build this. Facebook has sixteen thousand, for example, because they're pushing big metaverse. That's the fastest in the world, if you want to have an idea. But again, this is an exponential thing whereby we have more than just about every single country. And we use that to take a hundred thousand gigabytes of images and compress it into-

• 56:26Peter Diamandis?

  A hundred terabytes.

• 56:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, a hundred terabytes and compress it down so into two effectively. So fifty thousand to one compression of knowledge, right?

• 56:35Peter Diamandis?

  And so when you say that compression, when you're talking about a neural net, you're, you're, not all of the connections or the pathways in neural net are useful or valid.

• 56:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:48Peter Diamandis?

  Right? And so what you're doing is you're choosing which ones are?

• 56:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, but because it pays attention to what the most important-

• 56:53Peter Diamandis?

  So this is part of the attention, attention-

• 56:55Speaker 01

  And then it creates these latent spaces that you poke with the prompts, which are the words that you put in.

• 56:59Peter Diamandis?

  Right.

• 56:59Speaker 01

  So like OpenAI, for example, made GPT three was a hundred and seventy five billion parameter model. The next step after that deep learning, because that's called deep learning, this thing.

• 57:07Peter Diamandis?

  Yes.

• 57:08Speaker 01

  Like because we spend all the energy and all that compute, you don't have to. You can then take that base, that pizza base, you can inject some Peter and then you have a Peter model. It just takes ten images and then you can put yourself in anything. Or you can spend a hundred thousand images and do an even more refined model. But it forms a basis, what's called a foundation model in a way. But you can even make it even more efficient. So GPT three is a hundred and seventy five billion parameters. So it's like eighty times bigger.

• 57:30Peter Diamandis?

  And they said, they said GPT four was going to be like a hundred trillion parameters?

• 57:33Speaker 01

  Could be, you know, I think that ChatGPT is actually training GPT four right now. Because what happens is that you have this foundation, but then- In the classical day age of big data, what mattered was who you were. So they took your data, they built these big models and they targeted you. What matters now in the day of, I say, big models is how you use the models. Because not all those neurons are needed. We don't need all two billion images, right?

• 57:58Peter Diamandis?

  Right.

• 57:59Speaker 01

  So GPT three was one hundred and seventy five billion. They saw how people used it and they identified the neurons that lit up.

• 58:05Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 58:05Speaker 01

  And they compress it down to one point three billion parameters. So now, when you're using ChatGPT, you're training one of those models. And they're looking at how people are using it to compress it down. So stable diffusion can compress down even more. But then, this is personalized model that's very interesting. Because you can have almost this standardized base. And then you can inject your own context into it. And the context of your culture, your company, your community and others. And so that base is manageable. And that you can extend out the latent spaces. So like in stable diffusion one, we didn't really filter it. So Mona Lisa is overfit. There's too many pictures of Mona Lisa, so it's very hard to get her out of the picture frame. Now, we adjusted it so you can make her swim very easily because it's not overfit anymore. And it'll continue improving and adapting.

• 58:49Speaker 01

  So we'll have better and better bases. And in a year's time, we'll have a very mature base that people can take and extend. So like in Japan, they took stable diffusion and they adjusted the text encoder for Japanese culture. And then it meant that if you use normal stable diffusion, because it's very western oriented. Sadistic man means a happy man.

• 59:07Peter Diamandis?

  Yes.

• 59:08Speaker 01

  In Japan, diffusion is very sad man. Very sad man indeed, because I understand that context.

• 59:13Peter Diamandis?

  Fascinating. So in the future, if I wanted to, you know, I coach a lot of entrepreneurs and a lot of CEOs through Abundance three sixty and so forth. If I wanted to create a virtualized version of myself that in in certain circumstances would react in a certain way. That's pretty easy. It's coming. So pocket coach, if I wanted to like have Tony Robbins in my pocket in the right moment or the Dalai Lama. It's all possible.

• 59:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, and that will be probably a four gigabyte file.

• 59:47Peter Diamandis?

  And how far is that from now?

• 59:50Speaker 01

  Pretty much do it now.

• 59:51Peter Diamandis?

  You do it now.

• 59:52Speaker 01

  And you can do it fully realistic, like, you know.

• 59:55Peter Diamandis?

  I think, I think the term is holy shit. That's amazing.

• 59:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, because you have the volatility, you can make it indistinguishable from a human, like, stable diffusion two is pretty much photorealistic now, stable diffusion three will break that barrier. And obviously we can animate now. So again, that's kind of crazy.

• 1:00:12Peter Diamandis?

  That's crazy.

• 1:00:12Speaker 01

  You know, meta humans epic game, epic game style or what Nvidia are doing. You can also do human realistic voices with fully emotional range as well. So like my sister in law ran a, runs a company called Senantik. Um, she reconstructed Val Kilmer's voice for Val and Top Gun.

• 1:00:29Peter Diamandis?

  Nice.

• 1:00:29Speaker 01

  I was doing all the video games. And if you go to senantik.io, you hear an AI tell you that it loves you and it's really creepy. She is sold to Spotify, so I'm sure we'll have some really engaging podcasts and things like that. Um, and like again, across all modalities now, in narrow, you're achieving human levels and going on to human levels of performance in benchmarks. From media to understanding to output. And the barriers to putting yourself in, like I said, you can train a model now in like less than an hour with 10, 100 images of yourself to put yourself in anything.

• 1:01:05Speaker 01

  For a buck. Because we've done the heavy lifting of millions of bucks of pre-training the model, as it were.

• 1:01:11Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:11Speaker 01

  Whereas classically, AI wasn't like that.

• 1:01:13Peter Diamandis?

  So if I wanted to create a, a virtualized host of myself, being able to on-screen, play me, say what I want to say, that's here now.

• 1:01:25Speaker 01

  That's it now. Like the technology is here now, the implementation needs to be there. So like, um, I mean, one of the companies we work with is called alethia.ai. And so they use our language models and so you can upload your scripts and it'll learn how you speak. But then the voice technology, they haven't integrated the voice technology and we have our next generation audio technology. That'll come in a month or two and then it'll learn how you speak literally.

• 1:01:46Peter Diamandis?

  I was using last year at 10360, I was using a company called Soul Machines and it had a virtual humans.

• 1:01:52Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:01:52Peter Diamandis?

  All right. And so I would love to create a virtual version of myself for anybody I want. And that's here.

• 1:01:59Speaker 01

  That's it. Again, Soul Machines is upgrading now, thanks to the technology that we're open sourcing. This is the other interesting part. Open source will always lag closed source. Because close source can always take open and add in data.

• 1:02:10Peter Diamandis?

  Yes.

• 1:02:10Speaker 01

  And they can have very focused teams focusing on certain use cases. So we're literally upgrading the foundation of all of these companies as we release these models.

• 1:02:20Peter Diamandis?

  Interesting.

• 1:02:20Speaker 01

  And then you mix and match, and that's where the value is. Actually, who was it who said, is it Mike Andreas or someone else? No, it was one of the other VCs. Most of the money in the world is made by aggregation and disaggregation. It just depends on which part of the cycle you're at.

• 1:02:33Peter Diamandis?

  Interesting. I can see that.

• 1:02:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:36Peter Diamandis?

  I was having dinner with Reid Hoffman, I don't know, a month ago or so, and he said something which is interesting. He said, every profession is going to have an AI co-pilot very soon. And I've been saying this for medicine, I think it's going to be malpractice to diagnose without having AI in the loop. And we'll see what the timeframe is, five years is my guess. But I can see an AI co-pilot as an architect, as a lawyer, as a chef, as everything, right? So how far is that?

• 1:03:04Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, it's here for code right now.

• 1:03:05Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, sure.

• 1:03:06Speaker 01

  So co-pilot, literally what it's called, from Microsoft, GitHub, and then CodeWhisperer now from Amazon. They help you write better code. It's about a 50% speed increase.

• 1:03:16Peter Diamandis?

  Amazing.

• 1:03:17Speaker 01

  And that's what we've kind of measured so far, which is insane. Like, you type in, I want to have a piece of code that does this, and boom, it's there. And maybe you need to edit it, but it doesn't matter, it makes your life easier, right?

• 1:03:26Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:27Speaker 01

  Like, say, well, the fusion is a co-pilot for art, so artists use it to iterate rapidly on different concepts. And they take it, and there's a Photoshop integration, and they use it as part of their Photoshop process.

• 1:03:35Peter Diamandis?

  I used to say that the crowd was the interim step until AI, right? So GitHub was the crowd, and now you've got, you know.

• 1:03:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, and, you know, there's questions around, you know, what was it trained on? Because it was trained on an entire snapshot of things. But again, it's like a different type of information flow to the web two economy. I'm going to skip over web three because it was a bit crap, and we're going to go to web four, or whatever it is now. And, you know, maybe you could call it web four I. It looks like AI. If you do a cool logo for that, you should get that stable diffusion to make it.

• 1:04:03Peter Diamandis?

  It's, in fact, it's listening and it's made it. So I love Jarvis from Iron Man.

• 1:04:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:10Peter Diamandis?

  And I find. Siri and Alexa and Google now kind of disappointing. How far are we from Jarvis?

• 1:04:19Speaker 01

  So I think Jarvis is probably two to three years because like right now you've got a MacBook M.

• 1:04:25Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:26Speaker 01

  It's the latest one. M2 in front of you.

• 1:04:28Peter Diamandis?

  Yep.

• 1:04:29Speaker 01

  16.8% of that chipset is a neural engine that's optimized for these transformer based architectures. Stable Diffusion is one of the first models to actually go down to that level.

• 1:04:37Peter Diamandis?

  And so when will we see that on this machine?

• 1:04:39Speaker 01

  I think Apple is basically aiming for like 70, 80% of everyone to have this and you can go from Siri 1 to Siri 5.

• 1:04:46Peter Diamandis?

  Nice.

• 1:04:47Speaker 01

  And this is why Apple's been talking about privacy and things like that because the new paradigm of the internet whereby the classical web 2 internet was intelligence at the middle coordinating us and feeding on our dreams and hopes and emotions to sell us ads. Now it's intelligence at the edge whereby you've got your own Apple ID, you've got your own privacy layer, and then you've got chips that can run AI at the edge that really understand you. That's why the Noggin's experience is seamless and Google also realized that so they're building stuff into the Pixel phones.

• 1:05:15Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, I think people need to realize that the power of these future systems, call it Jarvis for lack of a better term, is when you give it open access to everything in your life.

• 1:05:26Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:05:27Peter Diamandis?

  You let it watch what you're eating, you let it read your emails, listen to your conversations because it makes the world... The term I use is automagical in that regard.

• 1:05:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, and you need to have the foundation models to do that because it needs generalized knowledge and then specific knowledge and contextual knowledge so it can adapt to your needs. This human in the loop process is very important and so there'll be big AIs in the cloud but then a lot of AIs on the edge and will interact with and talk to each other and vartle with each other. Because what these models also do is they take structured data and turn it into unstructured data. So again, stable diffusion, a few words, Robert De Niro's Gandalf, you get a photorealistic picture of Robert De Niro's Gandalf.

• 1:06:01Peter Diamandis?

  Yep.

• 1:06:02Speaker 01

  That's structured to unstructured data.

• 1:06:04Peter Diamandis?

  Yep.

• 1:06:05Speaker 01

  And then you can go both ways.

• 1:06:06Peter Diamandis?

  A brief note from our sponsors. Let's talk about sleep. Sleep has become one of my number one longevity priorities in life. Getting eight deep uninterrupted hours of sleep is one of the most important things you can do to increase your vitality and energy and increase the health. Health span that you have here on earth. You know, when I was in medical school years ago, I used to pride myself on how little sleep I could get. You know, it should be five, five and a half hours. Today, I pride myself on how much sleep I can get. And I shoot for eight hours every single night. Now, usually I'm great at going to sleep. If I'm exhausted, you know, I've worked a hard day, I'm right out. But if I'm having difficulty, and it occurs, I'm having insomnia or my mind's overactive and I need help to get that eight hours.

• 1:06:49Peter Diamandis?

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• 1:07:34Peter Diamandis?

  We'll talk about them some other time. But in terms of sleep, Peak Rest is my go-to supplement. Hope you'll enjoy it. Go to mylifeforce.com/peter for your discount. So let's talk about something which I have an opinion about and I'm curious about yours. I think I know it, which is the idea of privacy, which fundamentally people all want privacy. I don't believe it really exists. And then when AI can read your lips, when there is data flowing everywhere, where encryption. What are your thoughts about privacy and how do we deal with it? Do you have any ideas?

• 1:08:10Speaker 01

  I think for privacy, you should always look at kind of what the downside to not having privacy is, right? Actually, people are more than willing to give up their data, too willing, in my opinion.

• 1:08:18Peter Diamandis?

  Everybody's signed, everybody clicks the yes, I accept this 15,000 pages of legal.

• 1:08:23Speaker 01

  Exactly. And then, you know, like you have to think as well of different paradigms. Like, you know, in China, will there ever be privacy? Probably not. And you have the social credit score and it's an optic on being built by AI, et cetera. In the Western paradigm, what's the downside on the privacy thing? Like, what if your stuff isn't private? It's basically bad actors using you in certain ways, which can include AI algorithms trying to manipulate you. I think, again, what Apple's doing is building a paradigm for actual privacy because it's aligned with their business model. Even other companies now, Facebook and Google have enough information, they don't need your data anymore. Like, who actually wants your data? I think is a question. Like, we view ourselves as these snow, like, you know, wonderful things. Who actually wants your data at this point? But the systems have adopted to do that and policies adopted to do that as well.

• 1:09:07Speaker 01

  With GDPR and all these other things, some of them overreach, I think, a bit. But we are moving to this area whereby nobody needs your data anymore. And also the systems are now available to give you that privacy that you want. And I think people want to opt in rather than opt out of a lot of different things to get more resources and other stuff. Finally, the final element is that federated learning has matured now.

• 1:09:28Peter Diamandis?

  What does that mean?

• 1:09:29Speaker 01

  So federated learning is when you take the model to the data. So you used to have to ingest all this data and train the models. Now, if it's just like a fricking gigabyte, you send the model to the data, it can train. And then without saying it's Peter or Emma, it can upstream the output. So we're seeing that in HGR UK, for example, for health data, we're seeing it with Melody, which is a thing with a lot of pharmaceutical companies coming through to open source analysis of patient data. You can finally get that where you don't have to sacrifice privacy to build AI and models. And that's going to be pretty amazing to, again, advance the field because you have access to so much more data to build better models.

• 1:10:07Peter Diamandis?

  Amazing. Let's talk about the perceived downside and, you know, I have to imagine that as much incredible compliments and the world should thank you for the work that you're doing because of the impact it's going to have. You're going to have to have detractors who are worried about technological unemployment or malicious use of AI or fake news and all of that. What concerns you? And I know you're a principled man who thinks about this deeply. What concerns you most?

• 1:10:39Speaker 01

  I don't have all the answers, like.

• 1:10:41Peter Diamandis?

  And that's a fair statement to make.

• 1:10:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, like, generally, like, what I saw was that very few individuals had control of this most powerful technology. And then, you know, like, it's very weird things, like, people like, open source AI is like nukes and like, so why should you control the nukes? You know? It was a very strange kind of thing. They're like, no, only like, it shouldn't be open source. So I was like, so why should big companies control it? Like, again, we live in largely a democracy. We live in a society. And so my take was like, let's educate people, get this technology out there, and let's have a common conversation about it. Because I have my own viewpoints and they're there. But again, I'm not a representative of anyone. I'm just me running my own company, trying to catalyze this.

• 1:11:24Speaker 01

  Because I thought it was important, given the fundamental change of society that will be caused by this technology now, because exponentials are a hell of a thing, for it to get out there. And so you need to make splash. So, you know, we've got hate mail and kind of all sorts of things, because it is disruptive. And we have to be aware of that. It is crazy and it will cause fear. We have to be aware of that. And we have to decide to get together how to do that. So like, for example, there are artists in the data set. Because it's a snapshot, right?

• 1:11:53Peter Diamandis?

  Sure.

• 1:11:53Speaker 01

  It's less than 0.5%. And so is it ethical, legal, and moral to have them in there? So people can prompt an art style and mash them together? I think it is. But does that mean that we disregard artists who want to opt out of the data set? No.

• 1:12:08Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:08Speaker 01

  Because they're part of the global community. So we've built an opt-out and opt-out mechanisms.

• 1:12:12Peter Diamandis?

  And by the way, those artists are influencing other artists normally in the course of just them going to museums.

• 1:12:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. And you know, what we have is now we've had like four or 5,000 artists sign up, they're spawning. Half of them have opted out. Half of them have opted in.

• 1:12:28Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, they'd love to see their work influence the world.

• 1:12:31Speaker 01

  But how many people have really absorbed the parameters of the discussion? Very few. So like I said, my thing is that, again, this is fundamental infrastructure. Access to this technology is a fundamental human right. Because otherwise, what you're going to have, this is a discussion that, you know, I know you've had many times, superhumans and normal humans.

• 1:12:51Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:51Speaker 01

  The ability to communicate and create. Makes you superhuman. Because just not only images, like it's presentations, it's being able to, like we have voice to voice technology that can allow you to speak more confidently.

• 1:13:03Peter Diamandis?

  It's interesting. I mean, people need to realize that today, the poorest among us in society have more than the kings and queens had, you know, a couple of centuries ago. And this is about leveling the playing field. This is about, this is about, this is the technology, and this is what I care about deeply, and I know you do too, uplifting humanity. Enabling every man, woman, and child to have access to food, water, healthcare, education.

• 1:13:27Speaker 01

  And have a voice.

• 1:13:28Peter Diamandis?

  And have a voice, yes.

• 1:13:29Speaker 01

  They are invisible.

• 1:13:30Peter Diamandis?

  And have dreams.

• 1:13:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:32Peter Diamandis?

  And have dreams and have the tools to fulfill those dreams.

• 1:13:35Speaker 01

  To have agency.

• 1:13:36Peter Diamandis?

  Yes, agency is the right word.

• 1:13:37Speaker 01

  I had a bit of a flippant comment, because again, I can do what I want in my kind of role. It was like, humanity is creatively constipated, we're gonna make it so I can poop rainbows.

• 1:13:46Peter Diamandis?

  I think that's great.

• 1:13:49Speaker 01

  It's a silly comment, but again, it's the reality, because people don't believe they can create. They don't believe, they, the mentality and mindset is wrong, because people have more agents than they can do. An individual can shake the world, or an individual can make anything around them better. But not if they don't believe they can. And this is why art therapy is used in mental health settings to amazing things. We've been conditioned to consume rather than create.

• 1:14:16Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:17Speaker 01

  We've been conditioned to be polarized rather than talk to each other and communicate with each other. And this can again, can change that. And again, that's why, like I said, this should be, in my opinion, a human right, it is infrastructure as important as 5G. And what I'm trying to catalyze now is not that I build the company that makes the decisions for that, but that we put it out there, and we're spinning off of Luther and other things. I just figured out a governance structure. It's not the UN, it's something else.

• 1:14:41Peter Diamandis?

  So, I think one important point is, do you think a world in which individuals are held back or restricted, feel they have no hope, or a world where every mother knows their children have access to the best healthcare, the best education, you know, the best ability to create, that's a more peaceful world in my mind?

• 1:15:03Speaker 01

  Yes, 100%. I mean, look, all wars are based on lies.

• 1:15:08Peter Diamandis?

  Okay.

• 1:15:10Speaker 01

  Because.

• 1:15:11Peter Diamandis?

  For, for, otherwise, both, both sides couldn't be, couldn't believe.

• 1:15:14Speaker 01

  Because humans are humans, like, to kill another human is disgusting.

• 1:15:18Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:18Speaker 01

  Right? And so you have to tell the lie that that person is the other. And you have to communicate it and control the means of communication. You look at kind of, again, where conflicts are resolved, and when people realize they are humans, and we're all part of a global society, but our infrastructure has been set up to polarize. Like, literally, we can see it visually, that this is how it happens. The incentive structure is misaligned. So how can you fight polarization if not by communication? And how can you do that if you don't give people these tools? And you create it so that there is a base foundation for the world, so that there are generalized models that are global. Then every country has its own AI policy using their variants of those models.

• 1:15:55Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:56Speaker 01

  And then because it's all standardized, we can hop between one and the other. That is a peaceful future.

• 1:16:01Peter Diamandis?

  Yes.

• 1:16:02Speaker 01

  And.

• 1:16:02Peter Diamandis?

  And, and a future worth working towards creating.

• 1:16:05Speaker 01

  Working towards creating, but it's also, now is the first time we can build that future. Because of this disruption to energy, like, the, you know,

• 1:16:14Speaker 01

  governments are, there's a definition of a government. It is the entity with a legitimate use of political violence. Right? The only one.

• 1:16:23Peter Diamandis?

  That's a sad, that's a sad, that's a sad definition.

• 1:16:26Speaker 01

  But it's the nature of it, right? Because you saw lots of political violence, and then it was consolidated into one entity. They can imprison you.

• 1:16:32Peter Diamandis?

  Yes.

• 1:16:32Speaker 01

  And they've got an army back in the currency and this and that and that, right? And governments rule on the basis of pure legitimacy to violence. And again, we see that kind of thing. Right? So against this, what typically changes a government or a society? It is an act of violence in some ways. It's an act of disruption. It can be a technology, it can be a revolution, or anything like that. This is a revolution.

• 1:16:54Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:54Speaker 01

  That's happening just after COVID, when everyone's thinking, holy crap, the system was rubbish. Let's do better.

• 1:17:00Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah. So once in a lifetime. The ability to respond. Yeah, I, I, I agree. And, and the challenge is that in the world today, uh, you can't transform a government gradually.

• 1:17:11Speaker 01

  Yes. And this is why as well, crypto. There were some amazing things in there and amazingly smart people work in there. It's rubbish because it tried to build a system outside of the existing system and there was this system and then there was the interface. Fortunes are made there and fraud happened there.

• 1:17:29Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:30Speaker 01

  Whereas this AI, because it can bridge structured and unstructured, can actually go into our systems, out compete them and make them more efficient and bring them forward. And it's the first technology that can do that dynamically and at scale.

• 1:17:41Peter Diamandis?

  Or build virtualized systems that are de novo that we spend our time in and opt out of the existing system and into the new.

• 1:17:53Speaker 01

  Exactly, and it can out compete. Or, the final thing of course, is that if you keep it as it is, whereby it's controlled by the few, they will ultimately use it as a system of control. It is the panopticon forever. And again, we're seeing this in China and other places with the social credit score that's about to be augmented with AI. Everyone's looking at everyone else, monitoring everyone else.

• 1:18:14Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:15Speaker 01

  What is freedom there? Maybe it's still happiness, maybe it's control. Let's give people the option, right? Let's give people the infrastructure and the building blocks they need to be independent, happy, and maybe they don't choose independence. Maybe it's a bit more kind of Borg-like, that's fine. At least you got the choice.

• 1:18:29Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:30Speaker 01

  It's, it's, because I mean, this is, again, kind of, if we tie this all back, the fact that you can now have AI that can write better than a human, that can draw better than a human, that can emote and speak to emotional turns, means that, let's say for instance, take one aspect of it, companies that are ad-driven, that sell ads, they can create the most manipulative ads in the world ever and regulators will not regulate that. That's interesting.

• 1:18:58Peter Diamandis?

  And they do.

• 1:18:59Speaker 01

  No, but now it's the next step up because they have these latents that resonate. So like now, when you look at some AI art, artists can complain what they want, it's resonant. When you listen to the most advanced AI voices, it's emotional, you can feel it, it tugs at something. And again, this is a breakthrough that's literally a year old.

• 1:19:16Peter Diamandis?

  Let's talk about the ethics and morals. Does Does AI have a moral compass?

• 1:19:25Speaker 01

  I think that the

• 1:19:25Peter Diamandis?

  Should it have a moral compass?

• 1:19:27Speaker 01

  Well, I think the creators of AI, technology is not neutral.

• 1:19:31Peter Diamandis?

  Okay.

• 1:19:32Speaker 01

  The creators of technology do have a responsibility and they will never make it neutral because it embodies their perspective. And this embodies the data set and other biases and things like that.

• 1:19:43Speaker 01

  So I think that AI itself, this particular type of AI, again, if we just take the model, it is the action upon the model that then leads to the output. So there's a responsibility there. But then, like, how do we adapt them all? Do we just have a one and done thing that's always training Western values and norms and mores?

• 1:20:00Peter Diamandis?

  Which is, which is the way it's been going historically in the large corporate setting.

• 1:20:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, because there's nothing you can do. Like, you can't build a Swahili version of it because you don't have access to technology. Whereas now with the pre-training and other things like that, you can do that with one graphics card.

• 1:20:14Peter Diamandis?

  That's great.

• 1:20:15Speaker 01

  Right? Because again, we've kind of flipped the paradigm of an AI needs to be going all the time to this pre-compressed foundation model. So I think that, you know, then there is the things of like when you've got self-driving cars and other things like that, what are the ethical norms, the trolley problem and everything that you can put on that? These are not easy questions because you're extending humanity, which that means you also extend the ethics of humanity and that is not the same around the world.

• 1:20:39Peter Diamandis?

  Education, one of your moonshots. We first got to know each other through the Global Learning X Prize that Elon Musk and Tony Robbins funded. You were one of the leaders of the One Billion team.

• 1:20:54Speaker 01

  I wasn't the leader. I just kind of helped implement it with Joe and the Imagine Worldwide idea.

• 1:20:58Peter Diamandis?

  Yes. And so what, so if you don't mind, what did your team do in that X Prize? And then where are you taking this vision?

• 1:21:07Speaker 01

  So my co-founder Joe and I, Joe led this, made Imagine Worldwide to take the winners of the X Prize Kit Kat School and One Billion, who are the real kind of champions, and implement it around the world.

• 1:21:18Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:18Speaker 01

  Into the Rohingya camps and Malawian camps and others. Like, I just support from the side and shake him along as he kind of goes and does the really hard, valuable work. But now we've seen that, I believe, the latest stats from the randomized control trials, because you need to actually implement it as you. What happens? I think seventy six percent of kids in refugee camps learning literacy and numeracy in thirteen months without internet.

• 1:21:38Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:38Speaker 01

  It's immense.

• 1:21:39Peter Diamandis?

  It's like one hour of use per day is the equivalent of them being in school.

• 1:21:44Speaker 01

  Pretty much, yeah, because like it's one teacher for three hundred students, four hundred students. But then, is it enough? No, it's not enough what we've done at the moment. What needs to happen is there needs to be a big grand challenge whereby, you know, Malawi and Malawi kind of has said that they want to roll this out at super scale and so have multiple other governments now that we have the RCTs. Let's make an open source ecosystem that has AI at the core.

• 1:22:06Peter Diamandis?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:22:07Speaker 01

  That teaches kids and learns from kids. So you take from what's happened in Malawi, move it to Ethiopia, Sierra Leone, Rangana camps, Brooklyn, everywhere. And so there is a actual superstar, amazingly well-created ecosystem for education. And again, go to the future and bring it back with us.

• 1:22:25Peter Diamandis?

  Love that. This year at Abundance three sixty, Sal Khan is going to be joining us as well. Have you spent any time with with Sal?

• 1:22:32Speaker 01

  No, not yet.

• 1:22:33Peter Diamandis?

  Okay, so I'm excited to connect you guys because, you know, he's built something pretty extraordinary, but his vision is to bring AI to it so that it's AI is generating the content, not him, and it's and it's able to rapidly iterate for cultural appropriateness and so forth.

• 1:22:49Speaker 01

  This is why we need to build. So one of our things is that we're building national level models from India to other ones where there's localized data sets and other things. If you can get the education piece going, remember how I said that this AI is like a kindergartner or a grade schooler?

• 1:23:03Peter Diamandis?

  Sure.

• 1:23:05Speaker 01

  It matters what you teach it. So right now we're teaching it everything. Do we need to teach everything? No. So if you're an AI that teaches the kids and learns from the kids, that's the best data in the world to teach an AI for a Kenyan model or a Nigerian model or others. And you know who should run that technology? Nigerians, Kenyans and others.

• 1:23:24Peter Diamandis?

  Sure.

• 1:23:24Speaker 01

  And so one of the things we're doing.

• 1:23:26Peter Diamandis?

  It's almost like family-based learning and extrapolated from there.

• 1:23:29Speaker 01

  Exactly, because we don't know best. We can give tools and we've reduced the barriers to create national-level localized cultural models. And then those models together form a constellation that not only have you got base learning of like, what's the optimal way to teach linear algebra getting better? Then you can go beyond that to that. And you can, and the plan is to have an integrated system where it's hardware, software, deployment curriculum. Because then we could update that through mesh networking or the amazing work of Project Giga, which is putting high-speed internet into every school in the world by the UN. And then you can put healthcare on that.

• 1:24:01Peter Diamandis?

  Yes.

• 1:24:02Speaker 01

  And then you have a self-adaptive improving healthcare system, self-adaptive improving education system.

• 1:24:06Peter Diamandis?

  And then the world, I mean, for me, that is the, that's the calling that I think both of us have and hopefully many entrepreneurs here. It's like, what greater purpose could you have in life than uplifting humanity in that fashion?

• 1:24:18Speaker 01

  Exactly. And then as a Exeter manager, you can fund that at scale by bonds.

• 1:24:24Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, and the world's biggest problems are the world's biggest business opportunities, right?

• 1:24:28Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:24:28Peter Diamandis?

  Want to become a billionaire, help a billion people.

• 1:24:30Speaker 01

  So one of the ways that we kind of doing that is results-oriented bonds whereby you can pledge $20 million for a million kids are provably educated on this standardized architecture. The invisible become visible.

• 1:24:44Peter Diamandis?

  And measurable.

• 1:24:44Speaker 01

  Measurable. Infrastructure banks and the World Bank fund the remainder held by the pension funds and you can divert billions and billions of dollars into this. It's kind of the promise of one laptop per child can finally be done. But rather than building a system for today, we build a system for tomorrow that constantly adapts and improves, is understandable and standardized. Because that is infrastructure.

• 1:25:05Peter Diamandis?

  Yes.

• 1:25:06Speaker 01

  Again, the thing I really want to emphasize is this AI is infrastructure.

• 1:25:09Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:09Speaker 01

  It's more important than 5G or anything else.

• 1:25:11Peter Diamandis?

  It's oxygen in the room.

• 1:25:12Speaker 01

  It's oxygen in the room.

• 1:25:13Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah. So when I think about the future of education going out 10, 20 years and bringing it back today, for me, it's not a book, it's not a flat screen, it's going into a virtual world. If I want to learn about Plato, there's a guy sitting on a slab of marble over there, and he says, "Hey Peter, come on over, let me show you around, introduce you to my friends." And it's experiential.

• 1:25:37Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:25:37Peter Diamandis?

  And that NPC of Plato is trained up by all the knowledge about Plato, by every historian, and it's accurate, and the imagery and so forth. And what you just said earlier about real-time rendering from stable diffusion enables that, right? And the ability to take every historian's work on Plato and train up a model on Plato enables all that.

• 1:26:02Speaker 01

  Exactly, and particularly when it is at the hardware level. Because typically what software happens is that, again, you build layers and layers and layers of kind of compilers and translations, so you're far from the hardware. This model's already efficient at the top level. Why happens when we optimize them and push them down to the hardware level? You don't need internet, you don't need anything, you can form it. But then all of a sudden, you have the Young Ladies Illustrated Primer.

• 1:26:27Peter Diamandis?

  Yes, Neal Stephenson's incredible book, and a vision for the future of education.

• 1:26:33Speaker 01

  Exactly. And we can make it finally, but we can make it more. We can make it closer to the prime Radiant and Foundation.

• 1:26:39Peter Diamandis?

  So are you building hardware, Ahmad?

• 1:26:42Speaker 01

  I'm getting other people to build it for me. My life is not complicated.

• 1:26:45Peter Diamandis?

  But you're setting the specs.

• 1:26:46Speaker 01

  We're setting the specs, but this is the thing. Who is "we"?

• 1:26:50Peter Diamandis?

  Okay.

• 1:26:51Speaker 01

  The way that we're gonna do it is that, is it similar to the grand challenges and the prizes and that, like, let's get together, we will drive the process, because a rule-by-committee, you know, never works. But let's invite everyone to participate, from the kids using the tablets to code them, to the most advanced developers in the world, and let's build something for humanity. That's the way to do this.

• 1:27:13Peter Diamandis?

  Amazing, amazing. So you don't like the term Web 3, you wanted to jump over to Web 4, but this virtualized world, which is the convergence of AI and VR, AR, blockchain and so forth, what, where do you see it in the near term going?

• 1:27:37Speaker 01

  Ah, it's just gonna go insane. So like, we have technology, uh, gonna make an announcement in January about some of our technology. You've got Apple likely having AR glasses, Snap, Oculus's, all of this. It'll be a fully immersive worlds where you can engage. Like, when I was a video game investor, I looked at time to flow, fun and frustration.

• 1:27:56Peter Diamandis?

  Yes.

• 1:27:57Speaker 01

  And I think this technology can adjust all of those and create worlds for us. But it'll be a year or two. Because again, now it's percolating and it's getting ready to then create brand new experiences on the fly for everyone. And I think in a couple of years, it starts going in five years. Creativity, imagination, engagement, entertainment is completely transformed.

• 1:28:17Peter Diamandis?

  Within five years.

• 1:28:18Speaker 01

  Within five years. It's gonna be the biggest shift change that we've ever seen. Because the incumbents can't keep up with entities that are using this technology that can do everything. Like, what does making a picture look like when you can change it live with just words?

• 1:28:36Peter Diamandis?

  Right.

• 1:28:36Speaker 01

  And you can say, actually, make his hair a bit longer, or, you know, get rid of those nostril hairs, and it just understands and does it. Without having to be coded. Intentionality in action.

• 1:28:46Peter Diamandis?

  Yes.

• 1:28:47Speaker 01

  You know, it's kind of, you know, the whole military thing of observe, orientate, decide and act, right? These systems enable that almost flawlessly. Like, if you use OpenAI's Whisper technology, the translation of the podcast is just immense and all these other things. Because it's learnt so many principles and they're tiny files.

• 1:29:04Peter Diamandis?

  And then you can say, you could make it self referential and say, improve it the way you think I'd want it approved.

• 1:29:09Speaker 01

  You can. And like, we're building a technology, for example, that tells you how good a story is or how good code is.

• 1:29:13Peter Diamandis?

  Yes.

• 1:29:14Speaker 01

  So then you have a creation and a discriminator. They bounce back and forth against each other.

• 1:29:17Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:17Speaker 01

  And they learn from your personal context.

• 1:29:19Peter Diamandis?

  Amazing. You took a break from being a hedge fund manager to address your son's autism. Which was, uh, I mean, there are individuals like yourself, like Martin Rothblatt and others who are like... You know, I refuse to believe that I that something can't be done.

• 1:29:39Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:29:40Peter Diamandis?

  And you jumped in. For those who are dealing with autism personally, or in their families, or in their community, what were your learnings and what would you advise?

• 1:29:52Speaker 01

  There's always room for improvement, and everyone struggles with something.

• 1:29:56Peter Diamandis?

  How old is your son today?

• 1:29:57Speaker 01

  He's fourteen.

• 1:29:57Peter Diamandis?

  Fourteen.

• 1:29:58Speaker 01

  He's super happy. So I've asked Burgess an ADHD myself. And I think they balance each other out. That's what they say.

• 1:30:03Peter Diamandis?

  You're doing pretty well.

• 1:30:04Speaker 01

  It's all right. So I had a lot of kind of issues around those things. But people, again, everyone's different, and then diversity is our strength, as it were. But sometimes kids and others need help because they can't achieve their potential because there's too much going on. So like I said, I'm buy into the gabaglu to make balance theory of it. And so we had some drug repurposing and other stuff on N of one equals case. That's not science, as it were. It's first principles. And I don't think it's coherent enough to kind of be brought forward, but it's interesting. Instead, I think there are certain things that benefit everyone, such as applied behavioral analysis, whereby because you haven't built up the words, there are short trials to try and reconstruct what a cup means. It's quite intensive process, but it's also what people do after strokes and other things that make

• 1:30:47Speaker 01

  them lose their connectivity in their brain. Most of this thing, though, is about noise filtering and reduction of that. But I think percolation of that means that you have to look into first principles analysis of some of the science of what can cause it. And then you have to bring that forward to what is safe. So don't do kind of crackpot theories. But there's an emerging science and study showing things like NSAID, psilocybin, sulforaphane, and other things that calm you down are probably the best. And a large part of it is just connection and engagement there. So one of the things that we'll be doing next year is that we're taking all the research that I've done and formalizing it properly. Because again, it's not a case of, well, I can do it, so anyone should have it. I did an N equals one case.

• 1:31:26Peter Diamandis?

  Yes.

• 1:31:27Speaker 01

  But then that should be extended out. And this is what I realized when COVID came along. So I designed and launched, with the help of loads of people, Collectible and Augmented Intelligence Against COVID-19, launched at Stanford in July of twenty twenty.

• 1:31:43Peter Diamandis?

  Was that the actual origin of stability?

• 1:31:46Speaker 01

  That was the first origin of stability. So we didn't incorporate at that time, but kind of put it together.

• 1:31:51Peter Diamandis?

  I mean, it's it's insane how far things have gone in two years.

• 1:31:55Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, we probably actually kicked off in thirteen months ago. Um. So yeah, it was insane because I thought I saw it coming and I saw it like autism as a multi systemic and calamity condition where even now, if anyone asks you, how does COVID actually work? If you ask a scientist, they'll tell you, we don't actually, sure.

• 1:32:13Peter Diamandis?

  Sure.

• 1:32:13Speaker 01

  Like, why are ferritin levels high and why is this and that? The reality is our base foundation is not good enough. We don't have enough shared knowledge. So I created that to create a system that's comprehensive, authoritative and up to date. So there's a nice blog about it, OCD type site and things like that. A lot of private sector enterprises that promised a lot didn't deliver. And so I realized, again, this technology was the future and we needed to create open infrastructure for that. So when we do our autism releases next year, all of the knowledge and everything like that will be available. There will be a semantic scholar on steroids, which allows you to access the information relevant to the type of autism that your child might have. Because I basically, we figured out there were 16 different etiologies more driving conditions. But 30% of kids would get worse and 26% of kids would get better with the same treatment. So it doesn't work.

• 1:32:58Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:59Speaker 01

  This era of personalized medicine needs a foundation. And again, that foundation must be common, but we can't wait around to do it.

• 1:33:06Peter Diamandis?

  And it's interesting, right? The more I learn about the fundamentals of human biology, the more complicated you can dig layer after layer after layer.

• 1:33:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:16Peter Diamandis?

  And I don't think it's possible for, I mean, we're discovering so much because the tools we're, we're, we're using, but we're going to need this level of, of AI to cognitively understand the, the interactions of the systems.

• 1:33:32Speaker 01

  Again, it's a complex hierarchical system.

• 1:33:33Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:34Speaker 01

  In a classical Herb Simon style. And so we have to build new tools to enable that. The question is, are these tools closed and the company is trying to, are they open? And so our take is open.

• 1:33:42Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:43Speaker 01

  And then so our business model is just scale and service around that, which is how all the servers and databases are. But open is secure as well. That's why Linux is used everywhere versus Microsoft Windows, et cetera. So I think the final part of this is that, you know, again, it's all interrelated. Like, the body is such a wonderful, powerful thing. If you look at longevity and things like that, we need, again, this first principles thinking to both make us healthy and live longer and be happier.

• 1:34:07Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah. Have you thought much about what's coming down the pike with quantum technologies and quantum computing?

• 1:34:14Speaker 01

  So like, I think, very sympathetic to various approaches there, like, I'm quite, I quite like the quantum annealing on the kind of D wave, because I think that, you know, Carl Christian's theory around kind of free energy principle and having these low energy states makes a lot of sense. In fact, this is similar to what the AI models do, in that when you look at the latent spaces, you're going to the low energy states of what that could kind of mean.

• 1:34:35Peter Diamandis?

  Right.

• 1:34:36Speaker 01

  So that's quite a lot of jargon, I think, for a lot of listeners. But basically, quantum computing kind of is another part of the puzzle. A lot of people try to say one AI model and say, oh, we're gonna put something and it can do everything. You know, they look at AGI, this is the thing that can do everything. The human brain is made up of so many different parts, and we're just filling in some of the missing gaps right now, of which quantum computing is one of them.

• 1:34:56Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, and it's, I think it's adding fuel to the fire of how fast things are moving.

• 1:35:01Speaker 01

  Ah, yeah.

• 1:35:02Peter Diamandis?

  It's gonna be, you know.

• 1:35:03Speaker 01

  We can see the qubits increasing, and we can see it getting there. I mean, again, part of this is a supercomputer thing, right? Like, our supercomputer would have been the fastest in the world five years ago.

• 1:35:13Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:14Speaker 01

  Which is insane for a private company.

• 1:35:15Peter Diamandis?

  Right, absolutely.

• 1:35:17Speaker 01

  You know, like, think about bigger than everything. But if you look at, like, Nvidia is the one that kicked it off, because they put AI in the core of their graphics cards before this even happened, which is why it's now a $32 billion part of their business. The A100s, four years ago, were the first iteration, the A100s were the next, now the H100s are like up to nine times faster. It's literally going exponential, the compute, it's going exponential, the research, the technologies, we see exponential technologies everywhere, and we're like, it's so difficult to piece all these things together, see, I don't even know where things will be in a year, let alone five years, let alone 10 years.

• 1:35:51Peter Diamandis?

  I think that's an important part, and this is what, when Ray talks about the singularity, you know, it's the notion that we're, you know, the ability to predict what's gonna happen next has become impossible. And that timeframe, you know, people say, what's it gonna be like in 20 years? I can barely think about 10 years from now, or five years from now, let alone 20 years from now.

• 1:36:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, and this affects the way that we act. So the way that our brains work is that our default is decision-making under risk. So we look at the upside, downside of something, and we make an expected utility calculation based on that, because systems are stable. Is the world stable now? No.

• 1:36:23Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:24Speaker 01

  You know, so what do we do instead? We make decisions under uncertainty, which is we minimize for maximum regret. You know, or actually we just minimize for regret.

• 1:36:32Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:33Speaker 01

  So with these powerful technologies, people are like, don't give them out because I don't know what can happen.

• 1:36:37Peter Diamandis?

  It's the amygdala, it's a dystopian point of view, it's minimizing our downside, protecting what we have. It's a scarcity and fear based animal brain, you know, reptile brain that we default to.

• 1:36:49Speaker 01

  And this happens synchronicity. That's what we saw with COVID. It just happened. All of a sudden, everyone thought the same, right? It's what we're seeing with tech layoffs and things like that.

• 1:36:58Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:58Speaker 01

  Like Facebook makes loads of money. Why are they laying off? You know, things like that.

• 1:37:01Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:02Speaker 01

  And so we have to be kind of aware of this because what's happening now as well is that the classical system has reached its end. We've borrowed too much money from the future and now we are going to a negative sum game with inflation and other things. People are losing wealth rapidly. That leads to unstable Nash equilibrium from a game theoretic perspective. So we go from one steady state and lurch to another. Inflation to deflation to maximum employment to job losses to fiscal stuff. And it's just going to be a crazy few years. And that's the reason I call it stability.

• 1:37:32Peter Diamandis?

  I was gonna, that was one of my questions where, you know, and obviously there's, there's a terminology of stability in the, in the, in the models that you're building, but stability in order to help stabilize society?

• 1:37:43Speaker 01

  Yes. Build a human OS or catalyze a human OS because it can only be built by society. We're just a catalyst.

• 1:37:50Peter Diamandis?

  Yes.

• 1:37:50Speaker 01

  Help guide that in a way because this AI can be finally the thing that can stabilize a complex system. That is humanity and in large to achieve our potential.

• 1:38:00Peter Diamandis?

  That's a platform, a infrastructure platform that uplifts all of humanity.

• 1:38:05Speaker 01

  Yes. And again, it should be run by the people for the people. So like our subsidiaries in the countries, we're putting aside 10% of the equity for the kids that use the tablets. And I'm never going to take a penny out of any of them until IPOing them because they should be owned by the people.

• 1:38:18Peter Diamandis?

  I love that. Okay. I want to close this out with two, two topics around the moonshots and mindsets.

• 1:38:28Peter Diamandis?

  If I were to launch an EMDX Prize, fully funded and push it out to the world, what's a grand challenge in X Prize that you would love to see materialize out there?

• 1:38:44Speaker 01

  I think this education is the key one. I think it's the next step of global learning, which is a grand challenge just to build this system, and especially for low-income countries. Again, like, the delta on the impact can be so massive on this, because it's infrastructure for the next generation. Like, a lot of these emerging markets leapfrogged straight to mobile phones, they skipped computers.

• 1:39:05Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:06Speaker 01

  Now they can skip to the AI age. How amazing will that be? It'll uplift everyone.

• 1:39:11Peter Diamandis?

  And there's no greater asset to a nation, a company, anybody than the intelligence of its citizens.

• 1:39:21Speaker 01

  Citizens are intelligent. They don't have access to be able to take that intelligence and build.

• 1:39:25Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:26Speaker 01

  To build for themselves and extend that. We can make that infrastructure now to do it for the first time ever.

• 1:39:31Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah. Amazing, amazing. What are the mindsets that have allowed you to be successful, do you think? I talk about an abundance mindset, a longevity mindset, a moonshot mindset, exponential mindset, curiosity mindset. Do any of those resonate for you, or are there other mindsets? Because I think mindsets are the most important differentiator that we have.

• 1:39:51Speaker 01

  So, like, I've always been very lucky and I've achieved very interesting things. I was never really motivated the last few years, when I finally applied myself. And what I'm good at is first principles thinking on, I suppose, bits rather than atoms. But I realized there's nothing I can't do. There's nothing, people can do anything if they put their mind to it. But they have to think in a structured way, and they have to let almost water flow, as it were. So what I always try to do is I try to make it a win-win for everyone, to participate, to help, to extend this. And at a time of absolute change, you can make that happen. So this is why I go to the future and I go back to the past, and I work back that way, which I think a lot of people don't, because they get stuck in the present. So it's the moonshot mindset, looking to the future, and again, recursively backpropagating.

• 1:40:35Peter Diamandis?

  And I'll close out with, if you were going to list the moonshots that you're working on right now, you're clearly working in education, we've talked about that. But as someone who's like, can disrupt all the industries, healthcare as a moonshot?

• 1:40:53Speaker 01

  I am working on everything.

• 1:40:56Peter Diamandis?

  Everything.

• 1:40:57Speaker 01

  I've got about eighteen different ones. But education is core and creativity is core. Those two enable everything else. If you want to fix climate, if you want to fix hate, if you want to fix a lot of different things, get those two right, and that's the foundation for the future.

• 1:41:13Peter Diamandis?

  Imad Mustak, it's a pleasure, my friend. What a fun conversation. Excited to share your wisdom and vision with the world, excited for what you're creating as a fundamental platform and infrastructure for humanity. I wish you all the luck and look forward to supporting me any way I can.

• 1:41:33Speaker 01

  Thank you very much. Again, it's just a little catalyst. It'll be everyone else that drives this forward.

• 1:41:37Peter Diamandis?

  See you in March at eight three sixty.

• 1:41:38Speaker 01

  Cheers.

• 1:41:39Peter Diamandis?

  Cheers. Everyone, this is Peter again. Before you take off, want to take a moment to just invite you to subscribe to my weekly tech blog. Today, over two hundred thousand people received this email twice per week. In the tech blog, I share with you my insights on converging exponential technologies, what's going on in AI, how longevity is transforming, adding decades to our life. In the tech blog, I often look at the twenty meta trends that are going to transform the decade ahead and share the conversations I've had with incredible tech thought leaders on how they're transforming industries. If that sounds cool to you and you want to try it, join me. Go to dmantis.com backslash blog, enter your email, and let's start this weekly conversation.

• 1:42:20Peter Diamandis?

  Let me share with you the incredible progress we're seeing in the world of technology and the positive impact it's having on our lives. Again, that's dmantis.com backslash blog. Looking forward to sharing my insights and incredible breakthroughs I'm seeing with you every single week.

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