Leslie | Betrayal Weekly

Leslie always knew her father was complicated. After his death, a manuscript reveals secrets, contradictions, and questions no one in her family wants to answer. You can find Leslie on Instagram @lesliebscott or check out her website: lesliebscott.com https://www.lesliebscott.com/ If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal team by emailing us at [email protected] mailto:[email protected]. You can also find us on Instagram at @betrayalpod https://www.instagram.com/betrayalpod/ and @glasspodcasts https://www.instagram.com/glasspodcasts/. To access our newsletter and additional content and to connect with the Betrayal community, join our Substack at betrayal.substack.com. If you are currently in crisis, please reach out to organizations that offer immediate support. We are including a few US-based resources here: 988 Lifeline. https://988lifeline.org/ If you or someone you know is in crisis or need to talk to someone immediately, please call or text 988 – the National Suicide and Crisis Lifeline available 24/7/365. National Domestic Violence Hotline https://www.thehotline.org/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=domestic_violence. They offer 24/7 phone and chat support to help you create a personalized safety plan and connect you with local support. For resources on sexual violence, visit rainn.org/betrayal. You can also get free, confidential, 24/7 support through RAINN’s National Sexual Assault Hotline. Text HOPE to 64673 or call 1-800-656-HOPE. Every state has a domestic violence coalition. If you’re looking for help in the US, search the web for your state’s domestic violence coalition. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Andrea Gunning?

  Hi, everyone. We have some exciting news to share. ABC News Studios has turned Caroline Borrega's story from Betrayal, season four, into a docu-series. You'll get to meet the people involved, you'll hear from people who have never spoken before, and you get to see where this story took place. We are so proud and excited to share it with you all. Stream Betrayal: Dirty Secrets now on Hulu or Hulu for Disney+. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human. You know the saying, "Knowledge is power"? Well, it's a lot more than that. Knowledge can be growth, security, opportunity. And no one knows that better than Southern New Hampshire University. That's why they offer over 200 online degree programs designed

• 0:43Andrea Gunning?

  to help you reach your goals. Set yourself up for success, or get ready to pivot into something new. No matter your program, you'll learn practical, career-focused skills you can use on the job. And don't worry, getting your degree online doesn't mean doing it alone. Southern New Hampshire University has some of the best student support and online education. From day one to graduation, you'll have friendly, knowledgeable people to help you with everything, from applying and financial aid, to tutoring and career development. At Southern New Hampshire University, knowledge can be life-changing. Get started at SNHU.edu/Betrayal. That's SNHU.edu/Betrayal.

• 1:26Andrea Gunning?

  Okay, so buying a new car or new home starts by building credit, right? So how do you start building credit? Easy, with OnePay's Builder Card. There's no credit check and no monthly or annual fees. Just a card that helps you build credit to reach goals like buying a car or a home. When you finally make that big purchase, like buying a house, it's such an incredible feeling of accomplishment. You know how much work and how many little steps went into getting there. So finally reaching that milestone just feels amazing. Download the OnePay app or visit onepay.com for banking that gives you more for what matters.

• 2:02Speaker 01

  OnePay is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services provided by Coastal Community Bank or Lead Bank, members FDIC. Builder Card results may vary and aren't guaranteed. Learn more about banking through OnePay at onepay.com/podcast.

• 2:17Andrea Gunning?

  Some people never expected their lives to change in an instant. Most of us don't. That's why I want you to know about Saber Smart Pepper Spray. Yes, it helps protect you, but what makes it different is the connected app. If you're ever forced to use it in an emergency, it can alert your emergency contacts and share your location. So the people who love you aren't left searching. They're not left guessing. They know where to start. Visit saberred.com/Betrayal. That's saberred.com/Betrayal.

• 2:50Speaker 02

  I just felt like all the breath had been stolen out of my body. How do we have these completely different stories? Do I have my own story wrong?

• 3:16Andrea Gunning?

  I'm Andrea Gunning, and this is Betrayal, a show about the people we trust the most and the deceptions that change everything.

• 3:27Andrea Gunning?

  Mary Ann grew up in Ontario, Canada, in a storybook town called Grimsby.

• 3:33Speaker 02

  Grimsby's about as close to Stars Hollow as you can get in real life, and especially in the 1970s. It was fruit orchards, cherry trees, peach trees, canneries, the kind of town where everybody knows you. They know your name at the supermarket. And it felt safe and orderly.

• 3:53Andrea Gunning?

  She lived in an old historic house with her brother, sister, parents, and grandmother.

• 3:59Speaker 02

  My bedroom was pink, and it was the whole front of the house. And I had my own balcony. And the view from my balcony was of Lake Ontario and the newly constructed CN Tower.

• 4:10Andrea Gunning?

  Their yard was dotted with cherry trees.

• 4:13Speaker 02

  I used to go sit in the cherry trees, pick them, and then go up to my balcony and eat them.

• 4:19Andrea Gunning?

  Her friends' houses were filled with framed family portraits and neat piles of books. Mary Ann's childhood home, on the other hand, looked a little different. Her dad, Gene, collected unusual antiques.

• 4:33Speaker 02

  We had a real life, honest-to-God sarcophagus in our family room. We had a real, authentic, medieval suit of armor. We had a tarantula encased in glass.

• 4:48Andrea Gunning?

  They were the kinds of things that could give a kid nightmares. But she found ways to befriend them.

• 4:54Speaker 02

  I would go to bed, and I would always conjure up these stories about how the mummy princess would come after us, because she didn't want to be in our living room. But the night would save us from her.

• 5:10Andrea Gunning?

  Her house transformed into a fantasy world, one ruled by Mary Ann's imagination. For most of her childhood, her older sister, Margot, was at boarding school. So Mary Ann spent her days with her older brother, Brad.

• 5:25Speaker 02

  Brad and I were thick as thieves. We did absolutely everything together. We used to roam the town like free-range kids. We'd go on these epic bike rides. We'd be living off of chocolate bars and chips and soda. And it just felt like a really ideal childhood, except our parents were never home. And I desperately wanted the attention of my parents. I was very focused on gaining the attention of my father.

• 5:57Andrea Gunning?

  Her dad was often busy with work.

• 5:59Speaker 02

  He owned a shopping plaza, a furniture store. He was a jeweler. But he was also a concert promoter. He promoted big bands like Pink Floyd. He brought Johnny Mathes to town, Bob Hope, all these big-name celebrities.

• 6:17Andrea Gunning?

  And her mom did the bookkeeping.

• 6:19Speaker 02

  My mom and dad would go to the office early in the morning, and they wouldn't come home until nine or 10 o'clock at night.

• 6:26Andrea Gunning?

  Mary Ann loved being around her dad.

• 6:29Speaker 02

  My dad was like a lighthouse. He'd walk into a room, scanning and searching and lighting people up. He would engage with everybody. He would pull you in.

• 6:46Andrea Gunning?

  Gene stood out in a crowd.

• 6:49Speaker 02

  My dad had long, permed hair. He'd wear these t-shirts and bell-bottom jeans. He rode a motorcycle. He was Italian, but he was born in France. So he had a very European way about him. He spoke with a thick French accent.

• 7:04Andrea Gunning?

  Gene's three businesses and work as a concert promoter kept him busy.

• 7:09Speaker 02

  He was just like hustling all day and all along, and always on the move and always around important people.

• 7:15Andrea Gunning?

  But on the weekend, he would slow down and spend time with his family.

• 7:19Speaker 02

  Every Sunday, he would take over the kitchen.

• 7:22Andrea Gunning?

  Mary Ann would hang out with him while he prepared Sunday dinner.

• 7:27Speaker 02

  I loved to watch him cook. He'd always have a cigarette in his hand, and the opera music would be playing in the background. He made the kitchen seem like theater. The way he would tear the basil and then put it under my nose and say, "Smell this. This is fresh food. You only cook with fresh ingredients. You always buy the best." And he'd be making his big pot of famous sauce.

• 7:52Andrea Gunning?

  It was clear that her dad was special.

• 7:55Speaker 02

  But the first time that I knew he was extraordinary, I think I was about 11 years old.

• 8:05Andrea Gunning?

  Through his work as a concert promoter, Gene would bring in acts like Paul Anka. Many of his songs, like "Put Your Head on My Shoulder," are part of the fabric of pop culture.

• 8:20Andrea Gunning?

  It was a big deal that Paul Anka was coming to town. Mary Ann's grandmother took her and one of her friends to the show.

• 8:27Speaker 02

  And it was at a place called Hamilton Place, a big theater. There were thousands of people there. The auditorium was filling with people that you could feel. It was palpable.

• 8:39Andrea Gunning?

  As the excitement bubbled around them, Mary Ann and her friend got to go backstage.

• 8:46Speaker 02

  And I remember seeing my dad. Everybody was listening to him. And then he took me into Paul Anka's dressing room. And he said, "Say hello to Mr. Anka."

• 8:57Andrea Gunning?

  Mary Ann was too young to be a true Paul Anka fan, but she knew that he was a big deal.

• 9:04Speaker 02

  This guy's really important, this Paul Anka. I've heard him. I've heard his records. And here's my dad in charge of all this. It all came to me like, wow, he is a really important person, and he's really special.

• 9:21Andrea Gunning?

  One day, when Mary Ann was 12, she was on her way home from school.

• 9:27Speaker 02

  I got off the bus, and it was a short walk home. And I get to our driveway, and I see a big, white, moving truck in our driveway. And I see police on our front lawn. And I see movers moving our furniture out of the house and onto the truck.

• 9:45Andrea Gunning?

  She stopped in her tracks.

• 9:47Speaker 02

  My brain can't process what's happening. And my mom and my grandmother and our Doberman, Penny, are on the front lawn with suitcases.

• 9:58Andrea Gunning?

  She rushed over to her mom.

• 10:00Speaker 02

  And she says, "Get in the car. We're going on a trip."

• 10:05Andrea Gunning?

  Mary Ann had a million questions.

• 10:08Speaker 02

  Like, where's all my stuff? What do you mean, "We're getting in the car"? What do you mean, "We're going"? Where are we going? Where's my brother? Where's my sister? Where's my dad? What is happening?

• 10:17Andrea Gunning?

  But her mother didn't have any answers.

• 10:19Speaker 02

  She's just like, "Mary Ann, get in the car."

• 10:24Andrea Gunning?

  Her mom and grandmother crammed a few suitcases in the trunk of their Pontiac Le Mans and started driving. Mary Ann looked out the window as her familiar cozy town of Grimsby whizzed by and faded into the distance.

• 10:38Speaker 02

  I was scared. Like, what are my friends gonna think? I didn't even get to talk to my friends. My life is blowing up, and I don't know why. And my mom wouldn't talk.

• 10:50Andrea Gunning?

  All her mom told her was that they were going to America. In fact, they were going all the way down south to Florida. The drive took almost a week.

• 11:01Speaker 02

  And we ended up at this really crappy motel on Fort Lauderdale beach on A1A. And it was right out of a bad horror film. TVs blaring from next door, there's like nefarious characters in the parking lot.

• 11:18Andrea Gunning?

  This was nothing like her pink bedroom back home.

• 11:21Speaker 02

  It was like being flown in a spaceship to another planet. I'm feeling totally displaced and terrified.

• 11:31Andrea Gunning?

  After a week at the motel, Mary Ann started pushing her mom for answers. She was in sixth grade. Their family had never been separated before. She didn't understand where her siblings were.

• 11:43Speaker 02

  What's happening? Where's Brad? Where's Margot? Where's Dad? When are they coming? Like, what are we doing? Are we just living in this motel for the rest of our lives? And finally, she said that Brad had dropped out of school. Your father thought it was best he'd go work for the carnival. So there was a traveling show called Conklin Shows, and it traveled across Canada. And he was a carny at 15 years old. My sister Margot was living with my aunt and finishing high school. And then she would join us. And she said, "My dad was doing business." That's all the information that she would give me.

• 12:23Andrea Gunning?

  It seemed odd to Mary Ann that her parents sent Brad to go work for a traveling circus.

• 12:28Speaker 02

  I guess that could be fun, but shouldn't he be in school?

• 12:33Andrea Gunning?

  It left more questions than answers. As the weeks turned to months, Mary Ann kept waiting for her dad to meet up with them. She found ways to entertain herself at the motel.

• 12:45Speaker 02

  I bought an orange Proline skateboard at a yard sale for $10. And I spent all day riding that skateboard by myself outside in the parking lot, observing people, and swimming in the pool.

• 12:59Andrea Gunning?

  Finally, after two months...

• 13:01Speaker 02

  My mom says, "Oh, well, we're moving into a house."

• 13:05Andrea Gunning?

  And not just any house.

• 13:07Speaker 02

  It's in probably, and I would dare say it's still to this day, is the most exclusive neighborhood in Fort Lauderdale. It's called Harbor Beach. It's a series of islands connected by bridges. And just about every one of these luxury homes has a yacht in the backyard in the canal. And suddenly, we're living there.

• 13:31Andrea Gunning?

  One minute, they were living in a roadside motel. The next, they were living in luxury.

• 13:37Speaker 02

  Okay, things are looking up, but I was still terrified, and I was still incredibly lonely. I'm a kid. I have nobody to talk to. I'm a fish out of water.

• 13:47Andrea Gunning?

  It was strange, living in such a big house with only her mom and grandmother. Mary Ann was 12 years old at the time, without anyone else her age to talk to. When the summer ended, her mom told her she'd be starting middle school here in America. Mary Ann was excited. Maybe she could make some new friends.

• 14:08Speaker 02

  They sent me to a private school. And we are registering for school. And the lady who's sitting across from me says, "So, Leslie, are you excited about starting a new school?" And I'm like, "Who's Leslie?" And my mom says, "That's your name. You know that's your name." I'm like, "I've never heard that name before in my life." "Yes, you have. My name's Mary Ann," she said. "No, no, that's your middle name." I'm like, "What?"

• 14:36Andrea Gunning?

  Her mom just stared straight ahead. And from that moment on, everyone called her Leslie, at home and at her new school.

• 14:46Speaker 02

  I showed up for my first day in school in a plaid tent dress with brown clogs and pigtails. And the girls in my class were wearing Jordache jeans, had highlighted hair with a full face of makeup. And day one, the bullying started. I felt so alone.

• 15:07Andrea Gunning?

  When Christmas rolled around and they'd been living in Florida for six months, something amazing happened. Her dad finally showed up.

• 15:18Speaker 02

  He rolled in in the Rolls Royce. And then it wasn't long after that that Brad and Margot came. I was so excited to see them.

• 15:28Andrea Gunning?

  Finally, Leslie breathed a sigh of relief. Their family was back together. The world made a little more sense. As soon as Gene arrived in Florida, he got to work. He was a savvy businessman and saw the move as an opportunity for him to start new ventures.

• 15:48Speaker 02

  My dad started setting up businesses pretty much on day one. He went to a busy intersection and rented this warehouse and painted in large black letters along the side of it, "Model Home Furniture."

• 16:05Andrea Gunning?

  And that wasn't the only new business he started.

• 16:08Speaker 02

  He was finding people to teach him how to run a boat maintenance company.

• 16:14Andrea Gunning?

  He wanted Leslie's brother Brad to run the business with him.

• 16:17Speaker 02

  So he bought him an old pickup, diving equipment, had him get his diving certificate, and then he set up this business called D&B Diving.

• 16:27Andrea Gunning?

  D&B, for Dad and Brad.

• 16:31Speaker 02

  And they would go to marinas and hand out cards. And my brother would clean barnacles off the bottoms of yachts and change propellers and zincs and shafts.

• 16:42Andrea Gunning?

  Of course, starting a business is a lot of hard work, but Gene always made it look easy.

• 16:48Speaker 02

  He would always say, "You can start a business anywhere you land in the world with $50 and a classified ad."

• 16:58Andrea Gunning?

  Leslie was happy to be around her dad again. His optimism made the world feel big, like anything was possible. He also established himself as a jeweler.

• 17:09Speaker 02

  He would come home from Miami, and he'd lay out these velvet rolls. And they'd be, for example, a whole roll of Patek Philippe watches or Rolex watches. Or he'd have all these pouches, and they were full of diamonds.

• 17:28Andrea Gunning?

  Sometimes, Gene took Leslie with him to deliver jewelry to a client. He explained to her that this was a very important task, and they had to be careful. The jewels were expensive. He developed his own strategies for keeping them safe.

• 17:44Speaker 02

  He always transported jewels in a paper lunch bag, because he said, "People will rob a briefcase, but nobody's stealing your lunch." I remember going to the International Building with him in Miami, and he'd fill that bag with diamonds and gold and like all these jewels, and then leave when we'd be walking downtown Miami with this paper bag with hundreds of thousands of dollars of jewelry.

• 18:08Andrea Gunning?

  Over the next few months, Leslie's dad started making new friends.

• 18:13Speaker 02

  Some strange men were coming in and out of the house. And my dad would have me call them all uncle. Uncle Pico, Uncle Giorgio, Uncle Eduardo. And they'd be smoking Cuban cigars and drinking at the bar, laughing, and there'd be hushed tones.

• 18:32Andrea Gunning?

  Around that same time, Leslie started noticing some changes around the house that scared her.

• 18:39Speaker 02

  There were handguns in our planters inside the house. Like, in every room, there was a gun in every single room. I'd never seen a gun before. And that was a bit scary.

• 18:51Andrea Gunning?

  One day at breakfast, Leslie shared her concerns with her dad.

• 18:55Speaker 02

  I said, "Dad, I'm scared. Why do we have so many guns in the house?" And he said, "All you need to know is that Daddy will always protect you."

• 19:05Andrea Gunning?

  The days stretched on, humid and empty and repetitive. She missed her home in Canada. It felt like she'd been plucked out of her familiar life and dropped into an upside down world. She felt untethered and was searching for purpose.

• 19:22Speaker 02

  I felt like an outsider everywhere in my life. I felt like an outsider in my home and I felt like an outsider at school. And I had no safe place to belong. I was deeply, deeply lonely, profoundly lonely.

• 19:38Andrea Gunning?

  As they got older, Leslie and her brother grew apart. Brad was pulled into the family business. He didn't have time to be a playmate.

• 19:47Speaker 02

  My brother and my dad were hanging out at the marinas and it was just me and nobody ever thought to check in on me.

• 19:56Andrea Gunning?

  But then, one day, her dad told Leslie he needed her help.

• 20:00Speaker 02

  My dad said that he had an important job for me and my brother. And I was like, "Oh, I'm in. An important job. What? Me? I can be helpful? Yes, I'm there."

• 20:14Andrea Gunning?

  Brad and Leslie went with their dad to the New River Canal. There, they walked up to a yacht.

• 20:20Speaker 02

  I think it was probably about 70 feet. It was a big yacht.

• 20:26Andrea Gunning?

  On the dock, Jean stopped and turned to face Leslie and Brad.

• 20:30Speaker 02

  And he said, "You and Brad, I want you to keep the guy busy on the deck. I'm going to be going below and doing a little tour. And I'm going to pretend that I have somebody interested in buying this boat. You just keep the guy busy." I'm like, "Yes, I have a job. I am definitely up for this job."

• 20:48Andrea Gunning?

  They walked on board and Jean introduced the kids to the yacht owner. Then he excused himself and went down below deck.

• 20:56Speaker 02

  He says, "I'm just going to have a look around."

• 20:59Andrea Gunning?

  Leslie knew this was her cue. She got straight to work, asking the yacht owner questions.

• 21:06Speaker 02

  I'm like, "Have you ever seen a shark? Have you ever swam with sharks? Have you seen pirates? And how does it work when you're out at sea and your engine stops working?"

• 21:15Andrea Gunning?

  Finally, her dad emerged back onto the main deck and they left.

• 21:19Speaker 02

  I didn't know really why we were there. And it's just me and my brother talking to this guy. But I felt special and I felt seen. I felt like I had purpose.

• 21:30Andrea Gunning?

  For her 15th birthday, she got her driving permit and a gift from her dad.

• 21:36Speaker 02

  My dad bought me a 1962 cherry red Skylark convertible. It had white seats and a white top and beautiful shiny hubcaps. It was just the most beautiful car.

• 21:53Andrea Gunning?

  On top of that, he had another job for her.

• 21:56Speaker 02

  He said, "You're going to do a delivery for daddy. I want you to take this stone." It was a 11-carat diamond. He says, "I just want you to go over to Los Olas Boulevard, park your car in front of Pauline Pocock's antique shop. And just wait there. Somebody's going to come sit in your car and he's going to give you a package of money."

• 22:17Andrea Gunning?

  Leslie was eager to help.

• 22:18Speaker 02

  I'm like, "Wow, did I ever feel important? I felt so grown up. I was on top of the world. I got to do something for my dad."

• 22:27Andrea Gunning?

  So she got in her cherry red convertible and drove across town to the antique shop.

• 22:32Speaker 02

  I parked there. I don't remember how long I was there. I was daydreaming about boys, as 15-year-old girls do.

• 22:41Andrea Gunning?

  Suddenly, a man walked up to her car.

• 22:44Speaker 02

  This guy gets in the car and slides in next to me and he pulls out a gun. And he presses it to my bare arm. And he says, "I'll take that stone now."

• 23:16Andrea Gunning?

  If you've ever tried to find a psychiatrist who takes your insurance, you know how frustrating it can be. Long wait lists, no availability, or finding out they don't accept your insurance at all. That's why I'm excited to tell you about Talkiatry. Talkiatry is a 100% online psychiatry practice that provides comprehensive evaluations, diagnoses, and ongoing medication management for conditions like ADHD, anxiety, depression, and more. Unlike therapy-only platforms, Talkiatry connects you with licensed medical providers who can diagnose mental health conditions and prescribe medication when it's appropriate. Their 800-plus clinicians are in-network with major insurers. And getting started is simple.

• 24:00Andrea Gunning?

  Just complete a short online assessment, get matched with a clinician who fits your needs, and you can schedule your first appointment in days, not months. Plus, you'll continue seeing the same provider so your treatment can grow with you over time. Head to talkiatry.com/betrayal to complete this short assessment and get matched with an in-network psychiatrist in just a few minutes. That's T-A-L-K-I-A-T-R-Y.com/betrayal to get matched in minutes. Talkiatry.com/betrayal. Talkiatry.com/betrayal. One thing I've learned from producing true crime these past few years is that life can change in an instant. Most people never expect to find themselves in a dangerous situation.

• 24:45Andrea Gunning?

  They're heading home from work, walking the dog, meeting a friend, traveling alone, and they assume it's just another ordinary day, until it isn't. That's why I want you to know about Saber Smart Pepper Spray. Yes, it's designed to help protect you, but what makes it different is the connected app. If you're ever forced to use it in an emergency, it can alert your emergency contacts and share your location. So when every second matters, the people who care about you most aren't left wondering where you are. They're not left searching, they're not left guessing, they know where to start. We can't always predict the unexpected, but we can be prepared for it. Learn more at saberred.com/betrayal. That's saberred.com/betrayal.

• 25:30Andrea Gunning?

  You know the saying, "Knowledge is power"? Well, it's a lot more than that. Knowledge can be growth, security, opportunity. And no one knows that better than Southern New Hampshire University. That's why they offer over 200 online degree programs designed to help you reach your goals. Set yourself up for success or get ready to pivot into something new. No matter your program, you'll learn practical, career-focused skills you can use on the job. And don't worry, getting your degree online doesn't mean doing it alone. Southern New Hampshire University has some of the best student support and online education. From day one to graduation, you'll have friendly, knowledgeable people to help you

• 26:11Andrea Gunning?

  with everything, from applying and financial aid to tutoring and career development. At Southern New Hampshire University, knowledge can be life-changing. Get started at snhu.edu/betrayal. That's snhu.edu/betrayal. One day, when Leslie was 15, her dad told her he needed her help delivering a valuable jewel to a client. Leslie was eager to help. She drove her new car across town and parked outside of the antique store where her dad's client was supposed to meet her. But when he arrived, things took a turn.

• 26:53Speaker 02

  This guy gets in the car and slides in next to me and he pulls out a gun. And he presses it to my bare arm. And he says, "I'll take that stone now."

• 27:04Andrea Gunning?

  Leslie was in shock.

• 27:05Speaker 02

  I was terrified. I thought, "He's going to kill me." I gave him the stone. What else was I going to do? And then he quickly left.

• 27:13Andrea Gunning?

  Leslie drove back home in a panic and frantically told her dad what happened.

• 27:17Speaker 02

  I thought when I went home that my dad would call the police, but that is not what happened. My dad was so disappointed in me.

• 27:26Andrea Gunning?

  He said?

• 27:27Speaker 02

  "How could you let that happen? I gave you one simple job. How did you let that happen?"

• 27:34Andrea Gunning?

  Leslie stared at her dad stunned. Hadn't he promised to protect her? Why was he mad at her?

• 27:41Speaker 02

  He was letting me come into the inner circle, but now there was a gun and somebody could have shot me. That was a new level of terror for me.

• 27:53Andrea Gunning?

  A few weeks later, her parents went out of town. While they were gone, Leslie borrowed her dad's car.

• 28:00Speaker 02

  And I popped the trunk and the trunk was full of these bags. Let's just say they were all about a kilo big.

• 28:08Andrea Gunning?

  Everything started to click into place. The strange men in her house, the guns, the secrecy.

• 28:14Speaker 02

  I think my dad's a drug dealer. I think my dad's a drug dealer and I have to get him to stop because he's going to end up in jail or dead.

• 28:24Andrea Gunning?

  Leslie felt a self-righteous anger. Even though she was only 15, she realized her dad wasn't the safe person she thought he was. Her first plan was to try to convince him to stop. One night after her parents got back in town, Leslie found herself alone in the living room with her dad.

• 28:42Speaker 02

  And he was putting a record on the turntable, like opera areas or something.

• 28:49Andrea Gunning?

  While he fiddled with the record player, Leslie took a deep breath and gathered her courage. Then she blurted out.

• 28:56Speaker 02

  "I think you're a drug dealer. I don't like what you're doing. I want you to stop, daddy. I want you to stop."

• 29:02Andrea Gunning?

  Her dad snapped around to face her.

• 29:04Speaker 02

  And he said, "If you don't like living in my house with my rules, you can get the fuck out."

• 29:10Andrea Gunning?

  Defiant tears began to form in her eyes. She didn't like his rules.

• 29:15Speaker 02

  I thought, "Okay, game on, old man."

• 29:21Andrea Gunning?

  So at just 15 years old, Leslie left home. She moved in with a friend of a friend.

• 29:27Speaker 02

  And they lived in a really ratty house. And it was crawling with cockroaches. This was now my new life.

• 29:35Andrea Gunning?

  She already had a part-time job at a diner. She got a second job at the mall to afford rent. But to keep up with both jobs, she had to drop out of high school.

• 29:45Speaker 02

  I didn't think about the future. I was just thinking about, how am I putting food on my table? How am I paying my rent?

• 29:52Andrea Gunning?

  A year passed like that with Leslie in survival mode. It was hard to live on her own as a teenager. But she knew she couldn't live at home with her dad.

• 30:03Speaker 02

  Life was adjusting and I was feeling very independent. I was broke, but I felt in control of my life for once.

• 30:11Andrea Gunning?

  Until one night.

• 30:13Speaker 02

  It's about four in the morning and there's a pounding at the front door of my apartment. And I get up and I look through the keyhole and it's my dad. I'm like, what is my dad doing here at four in the morning? And I opened the door and he said, get in the car right now. Your brother's been in an accident. We have to go to the hospital.

• 30:31Andrea Gunning?

  On the drive there, Jean explained Brad was in a bad car crash.

• 30:36Speaker 02

  We get to the hospital and my brother doesn't look like my brother. His head is wrapped in white bandages and it's huge. And he's hooked up to all these machines. The doctor said Brad is brain damaged. There's nothing functioning in his brain anymore and he'll never recover. And your two choices are to keep him on a ventilator for the rest of his life, however long he lives, or to disconnect him from the life support.

• 31:07Speaker 02

  And as a family, we decided that he would not have wanted to be plugged into a machine.

• 31:13Andrea Gunning?

  Brad died in the hospital.

• 31:16Speaker 02

  And after that, everything really changed.

• 31:20Andrea Gunning?

  It was too painful to be in Fort Lauderdale and around their family without Brad. Everything felt even more broken without him.

• 31:29Speaker 02

  I knew that nobody was coming to save me. I thought my dad was a drug dealer and I wanted to build something for myself. And my brother loved the sea and loved the ocean. And I thought, I want to join the US Coast Guard.

• 31:46Andrea Gunning?

  Not only was the Coast Guard a ticket out of Florida, it was also a way to rebel against her dad. She wanted to stop drug runners and enforce the law.

• 31:57Speaker 02

  That was going to be my mission in life. I wanted to do good. I want to save lives. I wanted to go after the bad guys. It was the only course I could see for myself. It was almost just like a natural progression of things.

• 32:11Andrea Gunning?

  At the age of 17, Leslie was accepted into the Coast Guard and started boot camp. Being in the military opened so many doors for Leslie. And her assignments took her across oceans.

• 32:25Speaker 02

  I had a lot of adventures in the Coast Guard. When I was stationed at Oregon Inlet, North Carolina, you'd get 25, 30-foot seas. But they were very dangerous because you had currents coming from all different directions. And I loved it. I thrived on it.

• 32:42Andrea Gunning?

  While she was in the Coast Guard, she met the man who would eventually become her husband.

• 32:47Speaker 02

  He was a Green Beret in US Special Forces on a temporary detail in Miami from Fort Bragg, North Carolina.

• 32:54Andrea Gunning?

  They started dating and got married shortly after. Leslie lost touch with her parents as she focused on building her new life. By the time she turned 21, her life felt the most stable it had ever been. But then, her phone rang.

• 33:11Speaker 02

  And it's my dad.

• 33:13Andrea Gunning?

  Over the last four years, she and her dad had grown increasingly distant. She hadn't heard from him in six months. Leslie picked up the phone. Her dad sounded scared.

• 33:25Speaker 02

  He said, I need you to come to Montreal right away and pick me up. Do not tell your mother. Do not tell your sister. Do not tell a single soul. There's bad guys after me and I'm in danger. Now, this is my dad. I'm his daughter. Bad guys are after him. I'm going to get my dad and I'm going to take my badass new Special Forces husband and we're going to break him out.

• 33:50Andrea Gunning?

  Despite all the years that had gone by, this was still her dad, asking for help. She didn't hesitate.

• 33:57Speaker 02

  I went into rescue mode. I think a lot had to do with my training in the Coast Guard. It was like it became a mission.

• 34:05Andrea Gunning?

  Leslie and her husband rented a car and drove through the night to Montreal.

• 34:09Speaker 02

  And it's very late when we get there.

• 34:14Andrea Gunning?

  Leslie's dad had instructed her to meet him in a bar downtown.

• 34:18Speaker 02

  I walk in, I don't recognize my own father. My father, who was handsome and full of life and sparkling. He was really thin and it was like somebody took a vacuum and sucked out all the life from him. His face was hollow, his eyes were sunken. And he was just crumpled in this booth of a bar. That was a shock. That floored me, like, who is this man?

• 34:48Andrea Gunning?

  They sat down next to him at the bar and Jean began to talk.

• 34:53Speaker 02

  He was jittery. He was very jittery. And he said, you're going to take me to the border of Vermont and Quebec. You're going to drop me off in the woods. You're going to check into the first hotel you come to on the other side of the border and I will find you in the morning. But he wouldn't tell us anything else.

• 35:11Andrea Gunning?

  So that's what they did.

• 35:13Speaker 02

  It was blackout. There was not much light and we dropped him off in the woods. Did as he said. There was only one motel. It was like an inn on the other side of the border. Checked into this little two-story inn.

• 35:29Andrea Gunning?

  Going to sleep that night, Leslie was anxious. When she was involved in risky operations for the Coast Guard, she always knew the goal of the mission. But with her dad, she didn't know what the mission was or her part in it.

• 35:45Speaker 02

  In the morning, we get up and I stretch and yawn and walk to the window because I don't know what this town looks like because it's dark.

• 35:53Andrea Gunning?

  She pulled back the curtains and immediately froze.

• 35:57Speaker 02

  We're surrounded by a SWAT team. And next thing I know, the door opens and my husband and I were tackled to the ground and there's a knee in my back and handcuffs are going on me.

• 36:09Speaker 02

  It just all happened so fast. And then they instantly separated me from my husband, put us in different rooms. Wouldn't tell us anything about my dad.

• 36:19Andrea Gunning?

  They interrogated her and her husband, but Leslie didn't know anything.

• 36:25Speaker 02

  I am literally clueless. My dad says, bad guys are coming to murder him. And then all of a sudden, they left the room. They left me alone. And then when the door opened again, the guy came back with my husband. And he says, we're free to go.

• 36:46Andrea Gunning?

  Leslie's mind was spinning, trying to figure out what just happened.

• 36:50Speaker 02

  Okay, well, the last time I checked, I thought he was a drug dealer. So does this have to do something with drugs?

• 36:57Andrea Gunning?

  She started calling each member of her family.

• 37:00Speaker 02

  I called my sister Margot and I said, this is what happened. Do you know anything about this? And she said, don't ask any more questions.

• 37:10Andrea Gunning?

  Her sister said she didn't know anything, but their mom did.

• 37:15Speaker 02

  She said, your dad had been arrested and was on trial for conspiracy to import cocaine into Canada.

• 37:23Andrea Gunning?

  Her mom said that in the middle of his trial, Jean disappeared. That explained why her dad asked to meet in obscure locations and had her drop him off in the middle of the woods. He had been on the run. After Jean was captured, he faced trial for importing narcotics and was sentenced to 15 years in an Ontario prison.

• 37:45Speaker 02

  I thought, I guess I was right. My dad's the bad guy. My dad is a drug dealer.

• 37:51Andrea Gunning?

  With her dad in prison, Leslie tried to put him out of her mind. Throughout her 20s and 30s, a lot changed for Leslie. She had two daughters of her own, got divorced and moved back to Canada. Her dad got out of prison, but she kept her distance from him. She did rekindle a relationship with her mother, who had separated from Jean. Then one day, Leslie got news that her dad's health had declined quickly. She drove to see him and attended a doctor's appointment with him.

• 38:24Speaker 02

  We went to the appointment and the doctor said to my dad, you have cancer in every bone in your body.

• 38:31Speaker 02

  Go home and do whatever you want to do. There's nothing we can do.

• 38:38Andrea Gunning?

  Leslie could hardly process the words. Her dad was dying.

• 38:44Speaker 02

  It was three weeks that he lived from that diagnosis. And I sat and held my dad's hand every day.

• 38:52Andrea Gunning?

  Soon, Jean couldn't leave his bed. It was clear he didn't have much time left. Leslie's daughters traveled in to see Jean and say their goodbyes.

• 39:02Speaker 02

  And my father, who no longer was that charismatic, larger-than-life figure. He's just this defeated shell of a man that I no longer recognize. And we're all sitting up in his bedroom and he's on the morphine drip. And he's pointing at the ceiling. And he says, tell those fuckers to go. Tell them to go. Get them out of here.

• 39:30Andrea Gunning?

  But there was nobody in the room except Leslie and her daughters.

• 39:34Speaker 02

  We're like, dad, who? Who? The FBI, the CIA, they're here to get me. Don't let them take me. Don't you see them? They're right there. And me and my girls are like turning our heads and like giggling, like, that's pretty good morphine.

• 39:51Andrea Gunning?

  Jean kept talking nonsensically.

• 39:54Speaker 02

  The guns are in the canal. I dumped all the guns in the canal. They're still there.

• 39:59Andrea Gunning?

  Leslie and her daughters gave each other a look.

• 40:02Speaker 02

  Like, okay, dad, the guns are in the canal.

• 40:06Andrea Gunning?

  Just days later, Jean died.

• 40:10Andrea Gunning?

  Leslie did her best to process her complicated feelings, the grief, anger, and regrets. She stayed in touch with her mom. And one day, a few years later, her mom came to visit.

• 40:23Speaker 02

  She usually came with a trunk full of crap from her basement to unload on me. But this time, she only had a blue binder and a small cooler.

• 40:35Andrea Gunning?

  Once she was inside, Leslie's mom dropped the binder onto the table in the hallway.

• 40:41Speaker 02

  And it's massive. It weighs a ton, and it just clunked. I said, Mom, what's that? She said, Oh, it's your dad's prison manuscript. He wrote that in prison.

• 40:55Andrea Gunning?

  Leslie wasn't sure she heard correctly.

• 40:58Speaker 02

  I'm like, what? His what?

• 41:00Andrea Gunning?

  Leslie's mom sounded almost bored.

• 41:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. He wrote it in prison. I didn't read it. It's probably full of lies. It's just garbage. Just burn it.

• 41:12Andrea Gunning?

  Leslie looked at the binder laying on the table in front of her. It had to be several hundred pages.

• 41:20Speaker 02

  I picked up the book, and it was so heavy. And I opened the first page, and there were 10 words on yellowed paper. And it said, "To Brad, may you find peace. There is none here. Love, Dad."

• 41:38Andrea Gunning?

  Leslie slammed the binder shut. Tears rushed to her eyes.

• 41:43Speaker 02

  I could feel my past rushing back to me. All the things I tried to forget felt like they were coming back like a force.

• 41:53Andrea Gunning?

  She wasn't ready to confront whatever was inside.

• 41:57Speaker 02

  So I stuff it away in my hat and mitts drawer. And I ignored it for about six months, until the day I needed a hat and some mitts in November. And I thought, oh, I think it's time. It's time.

• 42:13Andrea Gunning?

  She pulled the binder out of the drawer, sat down, and began to read. Once she started, she couldn't stop. Finally, she had access to her dad's side of the story. Maybe somewhere in here, she could find the truth. Then she read something that made her freeze.

• 42:32Speaker 02

  My dad claimed that he was an informant for the CIA and the FBI and the INS, and that he was forced into criminal behavior because of corrupt police in Canada, who forced him into the situation of having to work for the US government, and that he was innocent all along. And I thought, oh, my God. Was my dad a hero and not a villain?

• 43:18Andrea Gunning?

  One thing I've learned from producing true crime these past few years is that life can change in an instant. Most people never expect to find themselves in a dangerous situation. They're heading home from work, walking the dog, meeting a friend, traveling alone, and they assume it's just another ordinary day, until it isn't. That's why I want you to know about Saber Smart Pepper Spray. Yes, it's designed to help protect you, but what makes it different is the connected app. If you're ever forced to use it in an emergency, it can alert your emergency contacts and share your location. So when every second matters, the people who care about you most aren't left wondering where you are. They're not left searching. They're not left guessing. They know where to start.

• 44:02Andrea Gunning?

  We can't always predict the unexpected, but we can be prepared for it. Learn more at sabre red.com/betrayal. That's sabre red.com/betrayal.

• 44:17Andrea Gunning?

  For years, Leslie believed her dad was a drug dealer. But one day, years after his death, her mom came to her house with a manuscript Leslie's dad wrote while he was in prison. And in it, he claimed that he was an informant to the CIA, FBI, and other government agencies. Reading his words, Leslie was floored.

• 44:39Speaker 02

  Have I got this story wrong? Was my dad keeping this a secret because he was protecting us from the bad guys? He was protecting his family?

• 44:50Andrea Gunning?

  Leslie kept reading. Her father had typed up his life story, starting from the very beginning. He said it all started when he got involved with local politics in Canada. According to Gene, he was targeted by politicians and police who didn't want their own corruption exposed. That's why the family had to flee and abruptly move to Florida.

• 45:13Speaker 02

  And once we were in Florida, because of his connections in Canada and his understanding of the jewelry business, he was recruited into being an informant.

• 45:24Andrea Gunning?

  Gene claimed he got involved with criminal activity in order to report information back to the CIA. He became an insider in the world of organized crime, rubbing elbows with the mafia and drug runners, all to fulfill his role as an informant.

• 45:40Speaker 02

  My dad said that he first started with the CIA, leveraging his marina contacts. Him and my brother would go to the marinas and suss out drug runners. And they were very successful. I guess it was really easy to find drug runners back then in the Fort Lauderdale marinas. So they were informing on all of them.

• 46:02Andrea Gunning?

  Leslie's eyes were glued to the page. She kept reading. According to Gene, he'd been involved in global arms deals.

• 46:11Speaker 02

  It's like, are you kidding me? What?

• 46:14Andrea Gunning?

  So much of what her dad wrote in the manuscript felt completely outlandish. But then she stumbled upon a scene that was familiar. Gene described going to a yacht with Leslie and her brother Brad.

• 46:28Speaker 02

  My dad wrote about the day that he asked my brother and I to go and keep the guy busy on deck while he went down in the cabin.

• 46:37Andrea Gunning?

  Leslie leaned in. She still remembered every detail of that day, the questions she asked the man on the boat, how important she'd felt helping her dad. Now she was reading about that day from her dad's perspective for the first time.

• 46:53Speaker 02

  He writes that that man who was on the boat was the head of the Montreal mafia, and he was sent by the FBI to go down in that boat and find any evidence, any clues they could get their hands on. I was so shocked.

• 47:10Andrea Gunning?

  In his manuscript, Gene detailed what he did below deck on the yacht.

• 47:15Speaker 02

  He stole the guy's rolodex with all his contacts. He went through his garbage. He stole stuff from his garbage. And he specifically brought my brother and I as decoys.

• 47:29Andrea Gunning?

  Leslie stared at the word decoys. Her heart sank.

• 47:34Speaker 02

  He said it so casually. He wrote about it so casually, like it was nothing. It was like, I just sent my kids to the store to get bread.

• 47:43Andrea Gunning?

  We can't confirm if the man on the boat was the head of the Montreal mafia. But either way, it's clear. Gene had no concern for his kid's safety. In that moment, any hope she'd had that her dad was a hero faded away. As Leslie kept reading, she recognized another story, the time her father asked her to make a jewel delivery, and someone pulled a gun on her. In her father's manuscript...

• 48:11Speaker 02

  The story was all wrong. Completely different story.

• 48:16Andrea Gunning?

  In her dad's version, Leslie had been conned out of a jewel he'd entrusted her with. His takeaway was that it was Leslie's fault. He wrote...

• 48:26Speaker 02

  I wouldn't have been conned, but I felt bad for the kid. So I tried to make her not feel bad.

• 48:32Andrea Gunning?

  That was where his account ended. Leslie blinked. Where was the mention of the gun that was pulled on her? Where was the mention of her life being at risk?

• 48:44Speaker 02

  How do we have these completely different stories? Do I have my own story wrong? Am I remembering things wrong?

• 48:53Andrea Gunning?

  But Leslie still remembered the feeling of the gun. It was undeniable. Her dad had involved her in criminal activity. He sent her and Brad into dangerous situations and hardly batted an eye.

• 49:08Speaker 02

  You're using your kids as pawns? What is wrong with you?

• 49:14Andrea Gunning?

  Leslie wanted to believe her father's story, that he was an innocent informant. But the manuscript revealed small details that made her realize it wasn't that simple. She learned that the odd antiques that filled her childhood home weren't just decor. They were part of her father's money laundering scheme.

• 49:36Speaker 02

  That wasn't just my dad collecting. That was a way of hiding illegal money.

• 49:42Andrea Gunning?

  She had her own memories of her childhood. And now she had her father's memories. As the two versions came together, a new picture emerged.

• 49:52Speaker 02

  My dad was telling a story about my childhood where everything made sense and nothing made sense.

• 50:00Andrea Gunning?

  She needed to know what was real. She called her family to see if they could corroborate anything her dad wrote. But nobody wanted to talk to her.

• 50:10Speaker 02

  My mom wanted nothing to do with it. She didn't want to know about it. She didn't want to hear about it. My sister just kept saying the same thing. Why do you want to hurt daddy? Leave it alone. Don't bring this up. If you bring this up, you're just hurting daddy. And she wouldn't talk to me. I called everybody in my family. I reached out to my cousin, my aunt. Nobody would talk to me, not a single person.

• 50:37Andrea Gunning?

  But this time, she refused to stop asking questions.

• 50:42Speaker 02

  I thought, no, I have to know the truth. I have to figure this out. I got to get to the bottom of the story.

• 50:49Andrea Gunning?

  If her family wasn't going to tell her the truth, she'd have to contact Jean's friends and his enemies. She started with a name she'd heard her whole life, Detective Ken Robertson.

• 51:03Speaker 02

  He was the one that my dad said was the corrupt police. Because of him, we had to leave Canada.

• 51:09Andrea Gunning?

  In his manuscript, Jean mentioned Detective Robertson over 70 times. He said everything was his fault. It turned out Detective Robertson was still alive. Leslie got in touch with him. Over the course of a long phone call, he told her everything he knew about her dad.

• 51:29Speaker 02

  And he opened a whole new door. It completely blindsided me.

• 51:37Andrea Gunning?

  According to Detective Robertson, there were a series of Italian bakery bombings in Ontario in the 1970s and 1980s. It was all part of a mafia turf war. And some of this criminal activity was being run out of her father's furniture store.

• 51:53Speaker 02

  So the police initially went in. They started surveilling his furniture store. They saw the Musitana and Lupino crime families going in and out of my dad's furniture store on the regular. And because of that surveillance, they were able to get the Joint Task Force funded by the city council. Canada's first joint task force. And that is what led them to being able to bust up that crime family's hold on the city.

• 52:23Andrea Gunning?

  The police investigation into Jean's furniture store ultimately led to his arrest for fraud. This is why the family had to abruptly move out of Canada. Jean wasn't on a work trip after all. As a kid and young adult, Leslie was in the dark about all of this. Who her father was, the fact that he was arrested.

• 52:46Speaker 02

  Now, you have to remember, everything that happened, happened before the internet. I was in Florida when a lot of this stuff went down. I would have never heard about that. It would have been in the local paper. You wouldn't just go online and look it up.

• 53:01Andrea Gunning?

  Leslie asked the detective if her dad was in the mafia. This is all he knew.

• 53:07Speaker 02

  He wasn't in the mafia, but we don't know if he was working with the mafia or he was being extorted. We still don't know. And I asked Ken Robertson. I said, do you know anything about my dad being an informant? He said, well, I don't know anything about it. However, he was ripe for picking. He was the perfect person to be an informant because he had connections. He knew jewelry.

• 53:37Andrea Gunning?

  Leslie really wanted to talk to someone who was close to her dad. So she reached out to one of his old friends who were going to call Leonard. As they sat across from each other at a cafe, Leonard told her what he had learned about her dad's jewelry business over the years. What he said left her astonished. According to Leonard, the jewelry business was always a front for an armed robbery ring. After Jean made an expensive jewelry sale, he would target the wealthy client for robbery. He then had his employees dress as police officers and knock on their front door.

• 54:15Speaker 02

  And they'd say, there's been a robbery in the neighborhood. Can we come in and talk to you?

• 54:19Andrea Gunning?

  But once they were inside, they dropped the act.

• 54:23Speaker 02

  And then they would tie these people up in their chairs and force them to open the safes.

• 54:27Andrea Gunning?

  Then, almost offhandedly, Leonard said something that knocked the wind out of Leslie.

• 54:33Speaker 02

  He says to me, you know, I don't know if you know this, but your dad told me that Brad, that was an accident. I'm like, huh? He said, yeah, that was a hit. That was a revenge killing because of your dad. I just felt like all the breath had been stolen out of my body.

• 54:55Andrea Gunning?

  When Leonard left, the weight of his words hit her.

• 54:58Speaker 02

  And I just lost it. I couldn't even get myself together. My dad wasn't the hero. My dad was a worse villain than I ever imagined.

• 55:10Andrea Gunning?

  Jean involved his son in his crimes, and that may have been what killed him. This is the most shocking and devastating thing of all. But we can't confirm if Brad's death was a hit or an accident.

• 55:23Speaker 02

  I'd like to think it's not true. But there's no real way of knowing. My brother's gone. He's been gone for a long time. It doesn't change anything.

• 55:33Andrea Gunning?

  Leslie learned so many shocking things through her investigation. After talking with everyone, she returned to her family one more time.

• 55:44Speaker 02

  My mom always said that she knew nothing about my father's dealings. She never saw anything suspicious.

• 55:55Andrea Gunning?

  But if everything Leslie heard was true, then her mom had to know about it. She kept the books for her dad's businesses and spent every day with him for years.

• 56:06Speaker 02

  Bit by bit, I could pull on threads. For example, I said, are you sure dad never mentioned the CIA or the FBI? Ah, you know what? Yeah, actually, he did mention that back. Yeah, but I never paid any attention to that. My mom, I came to understand, was in survival mode. My mom buried everything she didn't want to see. And so she turned a blind eye to everything.

• 56:38Andrea Gunning?

  Finally, Leslie went back to the one person who had never cracked, who had never shared anything about what happened or what she felt or what it all meant. Her sister, Margot.

• 56:50Speaker 02

  I asked Margot again, even though she shut me out. I took another run at her. I said, this is what I found out. This is what I found out from everybody I interviewed. Do you know anything about this? And she said, it's true. Yeah, it's all true. I'm like, you knew all along.

• 57:16Andrea Gunning?

  It was a lonely realization. Her family knew Jean was involved in criminal activity and didn't tell Leslie, even when she was a kid asking them for answers. Her dad may have been the one to put her directly in harm's way, but the rest of her family had failed to protect her too.

• 57:34Speaker 02

  When every family member keeps the secret, they may not have committed the crime, but they're all in on the betrayal, all of them. They all own it.

• 57:47Andrea Gunning?

  Even after their admissions, Leslie's family didn't have the concrete answers she wanted. Was her dad an informant? How involved was he in the mafia? Those truths died when her father did. But one thing is clear. He put her in harm's way. He involved her in his crimes. When she trusted him the most, he sent her off into situations that risked her life. And that is the biggest betrayal.

• 58:16Speaker 02

  Parents are supposed to protect their children. The world is not a safe place. The world is a very dangerous place. But when it's inside your own home and it's the person that you're supposed to trust the most, that they're the most dangerous person in your life. That's damaging.

• 58:35Andrea Gunning?

  After she exhausted all the leads in her investigation, she realized there was more to this search than finding concrete answers. There was an emotional truth, one she'd have to answer for herself.

• 58:48Speaker 02

  In investigating my dad, I was realizing that I was investigating myself, my identity in relationship to my dad. This is my story. This is my life. This is my childhood. This is my family.

• 59:03Andrea Gunning?

  A few years ago, Leslie decided to write a memoir about her childhood, her father, and his crimes. It was published in May of this year. It's called The Liar's Playbook.

• 59:13Speaker 02

  Writing my book is the first time in my life that I stopped and I looked back. And I did not see a monster. I saw a man, simple, brilliant, dangerous, flawed.

• 59:29Andrea Gunning?

  Leslie returned to her dad's manuscript now with clear eyes. And what she saw this time was someone she recognized.

• 59:38Speaker 02

  Just so many things that we shared. And that made me feel less lonely. He's a risk taker. I'm a risk taker. He's a visionary. I'm a visionary. He has big ideas. I have a big idea. My dad's best qualities are my best qualities. His worst qualities are my worst qualities. But I have that awareness. And now I can break those patterns. And that's the biggest gift of all.

• 1:00:10Andrea Gunning?

  Leslie spent her adult life building stability and safety. Today, she lives on the shores of a lake in Ontario. She has close relationships with her daughters. In a way, her life is a reaction to the chaos her father created in her childhood. She doesn't take it for granted.

• 1:00:29Speaker 02

  I live in a beautiful little brown writer's cabin and I spend my days writing. I'm writing a work of fiction. I'm writing a holiday suspense novel based on the exact same themes about family dysfunction, about trust, about fraud. And this next part of my life is going to be about being an author, about being a full-time writer.

• 1:00:53Andrea Gunning?

  We end every weekly episode with the same question. Why do you want to share your story?

• 1:01:00Speaker 02

  The truth is highly destabilizing, but once you blow everything up, you can take those fragments and build something durable. You can build something honest, something true, and that is freeing. Where we're born, who we're born to, that's all a lottery. We have no control over that. We have no control over the DNA we get, but we get to choose what genes to express. Our family might shape us, but we get to define ourselves.

• 1:01:35Andrea Gunning?

  On the next episode of Betrayal Weekly...

• 1:01:39Speaker 03

  I just remember feeling gutted, completely gutted. This was my darkest year. A member of my family had been taken.

• 1:01:49Speaker 04

  I'm living in a Twilight Zone. I just want the truth to come out. Everything else can stop.

• 1:02:04Andrea Gunning?

  If you'd like to share your story on Betrayal, please email [email protected]. That is [email protected]. Please note that we are not a mental health organization. If you are in crisis or currently experiencing domestic violence, we encourage you to seek local help or dial 911. Please contact organizations that offer immediate support. In our show notes, we've included a list of US-based resources. You can follow us on Instagram @betrayalpod or find me @itsandrea gunning. To access our newsletter and additional content and to connect with the Betrayal community,

• 1:02:47Andrea Gunning?

  join our Substack at betrayal.substack.com. We're grateful for your support. One way to show support is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts. And don't forget to rate and review Betrayal. Five-star reviews go a long way. Big thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fason, hosted and produced by me, Andrea Gunning, written and produced by Olivia Hewitt. Our story editor is Monique LaBord, also produced by Ben Fetterman. Our associate producer is Lea Jablow. Production management by Kristen Malkury.

• 1:03:32Andrea Gunning?

  Booking support by Curry Richmond. Our iHeart team is Ally Perry and Jessica Krychek. Audio editing by Tanner Robbins with additional editing and mixing by Matt Talbekio. Betrayal's theme composed by Oliver Baines. Music library provided by MyMusic. And for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:04:03Andrea Gunning?

  You need credit to buy, well, pretty much anything. So how do you get started? Easy, the OnePay Builder Card. It's simple and smart. OnePay is the banking app trusted by millions of Americans, and the OnePay Builder Card is an easy way to build credit. Just use it to make everyday purchases, build your credit history, and then you can work up to the big milestones, buying a new car or a new house. When you finally make that big purchase, like buying a house, it's such an incredible feeling of accomplishment. You know how much work and how many little steps went into getting there, so finally reaching that milestone just feels amazing. Those moments start with small, consistent steps with the OnePay Builder Card. Download the OnePay app or visit onepay.com for banking that gives you more for what matters.

• 1:04:48Speaker 01

  OnePay is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services provided by Coastal Community Bank or Lead Bank, members FDIC. Builder card results may vary and aren't guaranteed. Learn more about banking through OnePay at onepay.com/podcast.

• 1:05:02Speaker 05

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:05:33Speaker 06

  In business, there's the easy way with Staples or the hard way. Hard means...

• 1:05:37Speaker 02

  Hey, did you proof the signs before having them printed? I think so. Because we're having a clearance sale, not a Clarence sale. Oh, big difference.

• 1:05:45Speaker 06

  Easy means professional-looking prints every time. Don't choose hard, choose Staples. And now at Staples, get 25% back in points on all custom prints. That was easy. Shop Staples online, in-store, or in the app. Ends 10/31. Limit $250 and earn points. $100 minimum purchase. Exclusions apply. See app for details.

• 1:06:03Speaker 07

  Sprained wrist, ankle twist, broken thumb can't make a fist, busted knee, surgery, that patch of ice you didn't see. Where pain starts, Gernavix Zuzetragene begins. Gernavix is a non-opioid 50-milligram prescription tablet for adults with moderate to severe acute pain that reduces pain signals before they reach the brain. Tendon tear, nose repair, tripping on that broken stair, dislocation, operation, moped crash while on vacation. Do not take Gernavix with SIP3A inhibitors. Avoid use with grapefruit or liver problems, as these may increase side effects. Tell your doctor about all your medicines if you are pregnant or breastfeeding. Gernavix may make certain medicines and birth control less effective. Side effects include itching, muscle spasms, rash, and elevated muscle enzymes.

• 1:06:47Speaker 07

  Joint displacement, knee replacement, fell on marbles in the basement, ladder slip, broken hip, that rock climb where you lost your grip. To learn more about Gernavix, ask your doctor, call 1-833-589-PAIN, or visit gernavix.com.

• 1:07:03Andrea Gunning?

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.