214. Dr. Chris Motley: What Ancient Medicine Can Teach Us About Stress, Chronic Symptoms & Longevity

What if your body is giving you clues about your health that you're overlooking? From changes in your tongue and skin to chronic tension, anxiety, and digestive issues, traditional Chinese medicine offers a different perspective on how seemingly unrelated symptoms may be connected. In this episode, I'm joined by Dr. Chris Motley, a practitioner of traditional Chinese medicine and acupuncture, to explore how ancient healing practices can complement modern approaches to health and longevity. We dive into the fascinating world of acupuncture, meridians, fascia, nervous system regulation, herbal medicine, and the mind-body connection, exploring how traditional Chinese medicine interprets patterns in the body and approaches chronic health concerns. Dr. Motley explains why he believes symptoms shouldn't always be viewed in isolation, how emotional stress may influence physical health, and why understanding the body's interconnected systems is central to his practice. In this episode, you'll learn: How traditional Chinese medicine approaches health, aging, and disease prevention What acupuncture is, how it's traditionally understood to work, and why people use it for more than pain relief Why Dr. Motley examines the tongue, skin, nails, and other physical characteristics when assessing health How traditional Chinese medicine connects different organs with emotional patterns, including stress, anxiety, anger, and fear The relationship between fascia, acupuncture meridians, and the body's nervous system How acupuncture, acupressure, and ear seeds are used in traditional approaches to relaxation and stress management Why practices like Tai Chi and Qigong may be valuable additions to a healthy aging routine How Chinese herbal medicine is used in approaches to infections, gut health, and inflammation What an integrative approach combining Eastern and Western medicine could look like We also discuss the gut-brain connection, chronic infections, biofilms, applied kinesiology, and Dr. Motley's approach to identifying patterns that may contribute to persistent symptoms. One of the most interesting parts of our conversation is how traditional Chinese medicine views the relationship between our emotional and physical health—and why managing stress may be an important part of supporting long-term well-being. The biggest takeaway? Longevity isn't just about advanced diagnostics, supplements, and cutting-edge technology. It's also about paying attention to your body, understanding your patterns, and building habits that support your health over time. As we continue exploring the science of healthy aging, there's value in understanding how ancient medical traditions approach the body—and where those perspectives may complement evidence-based modern care. Learn more about Dr. Shah: Website: drshah.com https://drshah.com Clinic: next-health.com https://www.next-health.com/ Instagram: @darshanshahmd and @extend_podcast Learn more about Dr. Chris Motley: Website: doctormotley.com https://www.doctormotley.com/ Instagram: @doctormotley Youtube: youtube.com/@drmotley https://www.youtube.com/@drmotley Thank You to Our Sponsors! Pendulum: Head to pendulumlife.com/collections/darshan-shah https://pendulumlife.com/collections/darshan-shah and use code EXTEND for a discount on your first membership! IM8: Try IM8 with a 30-day money back guarantee! Use code DRSHAH at checkout for 10% off at im8health.com/drshah https://im8health.com/drshah

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:03Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Welcome to Extend with me, Dr. Darshan Shah, a podcast dedicated to cutting-edge science, research, tools, and protocols designed to help you extend your health span. Having become one of the youngest doctors in the country at the age of 21, and trained and board-certified at the Mayo Clinic, I've accumulated three decades of practice as a board-certified surgeon and longevity expert. Over that time, I've discovered that a mere 20% of health knowledge yields 80% of the results when it comes to your health span. We're living in a new era where we are creating a new healthcare system, no longer focused on disease management, but achieving optimal health and vitality. Join me as I interview world-renowned experts, offering you a step-by-step guide to proactively avoid disease, and most importantly, extend your health span.

• 0:49Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I'm excited to introduce you today to Dr. Chris Motley, one of the foremost recognized experts in traditional Chinese medicine. Dr. Motley works with our team at our Next Health Nashville location, and we sat down together at the Next Health Nashville Summit, where Dr. Motley is one of the featured speakers. You might be wondering what an ancient practice like Chinese medicine has to do with longevity. I believe alternative therapies can be instrumental in adding to the treatment algorithms for difficult conditions. In this conversation, we talk about the lost art of reading the body, herbal remedies, and fascia, and how acupuncture actually works. We also cover how emotions and even family history can show up as physical symptoms, and simple pressure points you can use to calm stress.

• 1:34Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Dr. Motley also explains biofilms and recurring infections, and why hidden infections may be draining your mitochondria of the energy they need. It's a great look at where ancient medicine and modern longevity science meet. Let's dive in with Dr. Chris Motley.

• 1:53Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Dr. Motley, incredible to have you on here. Thank you for doing this.

• 1:56Speaker 01

  Thank you so much. It's an honor. I really appreciate it so much for having me on here. I'm excited, yes.

• 2:00Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Absolutely. I'm so excited to do this. I've heard a lot about you from our Next Health Nashville location. Folks over there, they love working with you and seeing you. Obviously, Dr. Josh has talked about you as well. And it's really great to finally get to meet you. And we're out here in Nashville for the Next Health Nashville Summit.

• 2:19Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:19Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And you're going to be one of the speakers tomorrow. And, you know, a lot of people might ask, hey, isn't this a longevity summit? What does traditional Chinese medicine have anything to do with this? And you're one of the world's most foremost experts in traditional Chinese medicine. And what I would say is there's a massive amount of interplay when we look at the space of longevity that we can learn from traditional Chinese medicine. And so I'd love to dive into a few of those topics with you.

• 2:43Speaker 01

  Oh, I'd love to go into it because there are a lot of interplay. And I do like the way that when we talk about like Eastern ancient medicine world actually meets some modern technology and modern medicine.

• 2:55Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 2:55Speaker 01

  And I like the way that they both kind of explain each other and have different language, but the same views in many ways.

• 3:00Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, it's so true. Because at the end of the day, medicine has existed for centuries, right? And, you know, I come from an Indian background, where Ayurveda was a big part of what I grew up with, right?

• 3:11Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 3:12Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I've learned a lot about Chinese medicine from very smart people like yourself. I had Dr. Mao on the podcast a while ago. And I just see so many parallels from how things were done before there was potentially computers and AI and, you know, scientific pharmaceutical companies. I mean, we've been doing medicine for centuries.

• 3:31Speaker 01

  Yes, yes. Ayurvedic, to me, they say that the Ayurvedic basis and actually how it fed into the Chinese medicine world really creates a really good look at the symptomatology of individuals. As instead of looking at it that people say, oh, you're always looking at these symptoms. But the beautiful thing about Ayurvedic and Chinese medicine is that they look at different symptomatology, like on the face, the hands, the tongue, and also on the patterns, the natural habits a person has. Like, what time do they go bowel movement every day? What time do they go to sleep? Do they stay asleep all night? And those small signs and symptoms, to me, can correlate to tell you how well their longevity is going, basically.

• 4:07Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, I mean, that's super interesting because, you know, right now in this world of MRIs and blood tests and genetic testing, we forget that symptomatology is an ancient art.

• 4:17Speaker 01

  It is. That's a great point, yes.

• 4:19Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right? And like, I think like traditional Chinese medicine, I know there's a lot of correlation with symptom patterns and also different areas of the body, like the feet, for example, the tongue.

• 4:31Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 4:31Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Same with Ayurveda, because you didn't have an MRI back then, right?

• 4:35Speaker 01

  So not that we know of, doc.

• 4:39Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, right, exactly. But like, it's like, you know, we've kind of lost that art. Even the lost art of the physical examination in medicine now.

• 4:47Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 4:47Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Is sad because, you know, now we just jump to these new high-tech platforms.

• 4:52Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 4:53Dr. Darshan Shah?

  But maybe you could talk about that. Like, how do we maybe talk about a little bit of, what are some of these symptoms, patterns, and detection methods that you have in your practice? And how does that tie into the longevity field?

• 5:05Speaker 01

  Yes, I, at the office, I use this different forms of acupuncture analysis machines. I also use a small biofeedback device, which also can measure and attempt to measure the frequencies that are running through the actual meridian of the body. And what they do say is that if the energy, the qi, which is basically two-directional electricity is running through the meridians of your body.

• 5:28Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Okay.

• 5:29Speaker 01

  You can take a small device called an EAV. I have an archaic look in one, doc. And then you can test the points, they call them the endpoints, and find out how much energy is running through the meridian. Those meridians are all basically running past or running through certain organs. So if you test, for example, a kidney meridian, which is at the very bottom of your foot, on the ball of your foot, you measure how much electricity is pulsing through that organ. If it's very low, you mean it's very stagnant, very slow. It's maybe diseased. If it's really high, it means that it probably is in an inflammatory state. So then I use frequency devices to actually try to measure and try to find out which type possibly of microbes or pathogens are basically affecting that meridian. So if the kidney's off, then you look into your analysis.

• 6:13Speaker 01

  If a patient comes in, you ask them certain questions when you find a weak kidney meridian, which would be, do you have pain in the arch of your foot? Do you have cracked heels? Do you have tight calves? Do you have tight hip flexors where you can't move forward in life? Do you have dark circles under your eyes? Ask these small questions, because when you see it on the face or basically look on the feet, you can also look on the hands, honestly, and in the eyes. So you'll look at even the tongue, and when you start to correlate them all together, then you ask deeper questions. This is before usually that they'll show a lab, because you know that labs, sometimes if they're not sensitive enough,

• 6:46Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 6:46Speaker 01

  they wait till the event has happened before they find it. But when you, in Chinese medicine, Ayurvedic as well, the beautiful thing is that if I found that you came in and you had dark circles under your eyes, and I asked them these questions I just mentioned, even if it didn't show up on a UTI, if it didn't show up on a urinalysis that you had a kidney infection, I know your kidneys are off, no matter what it says. And if you look at a person's blood report, you'll find discrepancies within white blood cell and red blood cell levels. And you'll see that they're pushing towards the edge. But then they'll say, well, I didn't find anything on my UTI because the hospitals only test for one form of infection, usually strep and E. coli. But I used some labs that I've done in the past where I test for thousands of different bacteria. And then you go get it confirmed, which is really amazing.

• 7:30Speaker 01

  So that kidney infection that has been hiding under the surface, you want to cut it off at the pass. Because in Chinese medicine, if your kidneys are weak, you'll start showing heart symptoms. And so the heart starts to suffer because the kidneys are off. And so when a patient has kidney infections, I'll tell them, we got to get the heart strengthened up. And they'll tell you things such as, I am having some AFib, and I had these little spells of AFib, a little bit of tachycardia. So my job is to find out through these devices, through this analysis, what may be going on and try to cut it off at the pass.

• 8:02Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Oh, I see.

• 8:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:03Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And then you mentioned an acupuncture measurement device? Is that one of them as well?

• 8:07Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 8:07Dr. Darshan Shah?

  It's the same thing?

• 8:08Speaker 01

  It is. And you have, there's different ones. There's a lot of fancy ones. There's some from Taiwan that are really, really amazing, where you basically looks like a hammer and has a big circular head on it. And you can just put it in the area of the actual meridian, and it'll automatically go into a computer system and tell you what the imbalances are, and then what other points you may treat to bring it to balance. Yes.

• 8:27Dr. Darshan Shah?

  How does acupuncture work? I mean, acupuncture's been a part of Chinese medicine, and I've had many patients successfully use acupuncture, not just for pain, but for all sorts of symptoms, you know? And so can you maybe, for the people that have not tried acupuncture, talk about how it works and what some of the benefits that they can, and what can they use it for, and what are some of the benefits?

• 8:48Speaker 01

  Definitely. There's a lot of routes, doc. I don't want to get over-talking, but I'll say that.

• 8:52Dr. Darshan Shah?

  No, please, over talk.

• 8:53Speaker 01

  Really, whenever an organ is really fatigued or really sick, you have to think about the fascia, fascia being the connective tissue in your body. So many people say, I have a tight shoulder, a tight hip. But your energy, your electrical energy, runs through the fascia, whether it's around the bone, like, or around the spinal cord or through your muscles. You have connective tissue and fascia running throughout your system. So you have this qi that's running through those arenas. A lot of your emotional energy runs through them. But you have specialized small tubules that they've confirmed with research that run through the muscles around the organs, and they correlate with what Chinese medicine said thousands of years ago. So you have these little pathways in your fascia. The premise is that if you ever had, let's say, a kidney infection,

• 9:38Speaker 01

  and that kidney is so infected and so diseased, a lot of times the body will draw energy into that area, that kidney, to try to mend it and try to fix it. At the same time, though, as the energy is going up to the kidney from your feet, if the kidney robs, takes all that energy and says, I'm not giving it to anybody else, it's all mine. What it does is, it creates basically a backflow down the meridian. I hope that makes sense.

• 10:00Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes.

• 10:01Speaker 01

  So it's inflamed underneath the meridian, but everything for the extension above the organ gets deficient.

• 10:06Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Okay.

• 10:06Speaker 01

  So you have a buildup of energy in the lower area. So Chinese medicine would say, okay, what do we do now? This is a very, very generalized explanation. But anything that's deficient above the kidney, you'll have small twist in the fascia all the way up. Because its next stop, the next truck stop, is the heart.

• 10:24Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Okay.

• 10:25Speaker 01

  And so you have these little areas of fascia that are twisted and they don't let the electricity go up because the kidneys trying to keep all the energy. You put a needle in the area and if you look in a microscope, a needle goes into your fascia. It sticks in your fascia and as you see the acupuncture is twisted because literally you're taking the fascia and you're twisting it and torquing the fascia. Fascia is pyos electric crystals.

• 10:46Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 10:46Speaker 01

  Right? You twist it, what do you do when you twist or crush a crystal? You deform it, creates a spark. It's just like the same thing on a gas grill. When you hit that button and you're trying to make a spark, it's a quartz crystal. Pyos electric, same thing. You're untwisting the actual fascia to create charge, a spark in your fascia. What do you do then? You open up the fascia, the energy slight, your body's telling the organ, you gotta bring some energy up here. And then you open up the floodgates, energy starts to flow out, you start balancing out the kidney. And then you add in herbs, you can do some gua sha, you can do some homeopathics. The reason the kidney is holding on so quickly is that there's too much probably infections or pathogens inside. That could be in a nutshell, what acupuncture does. It's really basically open up a blocked meridian.

• 11:29Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Oh, I've never heard that.

• 11:31Speaker 01

  I'm so sorry if that was too much.

• 11:32Dr. Darshan Shah?

  No, that was amazing. Yeah, I've never that explanation before. And so like, you know, what can people see you for acupuncture for that they could, what are some of the things that you see a lot of people for?

• 11:43Speaker 01

  Heavens. Um, now remember, I'm not saying I'd cure or diagnose many of these because I'm a lowly acupuncturist. But whenever you go through their symptomatology, patients do come in, I'm just using kidney as example. People that have had chronic UTIs, kidney stones, bladder stones, even inflamed bladder like cystitis. So patients come to me and they've already been to the doctor to try to figure this out. So patients who have that kind of condition, I've had people that come in with heart tachycardia. I've had people with enlarged spleens. I've had issues with stagnant livers, even issues that have like non fatty alcohol, you know, basically inflammation and people with thyroiditis. I not pat myself on the back. You just get people that come to you because they don't know what else to do. So you see pretty much a lot. What can acupuncture help with?

• 12:25Speaker 01

  I would say like, I say everything, but it helps at least bring balance and strength to the organ. So if the kidney has a UTI, the goal of acupuncture is bring energy and balance the energy that's traveling to the kidney and far after the kidney. If you do that, then you have a far better chance to get rid of the infections. And I can like, I've had patients that have had UTI since they were like early teens and they're now 35 years old. You clean it up, UTIs go away.

• 12:51Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Wow.

• 12:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:52Dr. Darshan Shah?

  So, so it goes way beyond just, you know, I think a lot of people think of acupuncture as a treatment for aches and pains and those kinds of things, but you're saying it can be used beyond that?

• 13:01Speaker 01

  Yes. And I, again, not bragging or at all, but these are other acupuncture that tell me and I've experienced it. But patients, especially when they've had, let's say leaky guts, a huge issue within the longevity field, when their mucosal line is completely just deteriorated. You can use acupuncture, they think just for the pain in the gut. That is one part of it. But what you are trying to do is if you know that the large intestine is very, very much congealed and inflamed, if you open up the large intestine, one of the things you'll see in the Chinese clock is this, large intestine eventually flows down into the stomach. So in the morning at five to seven, you poop. That's the time of the large intestine, Chinese medicine. Seven to nine is going to be your stomach time. You should go eat a meal.

• 13:42Speaker 01

  If you have a concealed mucus layer with leaky gut, it will affect the strength of your stomach. You won't want to eat, it'll affect your digestion. So as you start to open up the large intestine, you get them pooping again and probably get some of that leaky gut out of there. You can find as well pathogens such as H. pylori, salmonella, E. coli, strep, you'll find those things hiding out in the gut. And you only can find them if you do specialized testing because the normal you're not going to get unless you go to a center of disease control doctor. So what can it help? When I say leaky gut, it can help with restoring energy, but I often use frequency testing to actually find out there is infections in there. Get that opened up, bring energy to the stomach, you start digesting your food. That's just one example.

• 14:25Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, yeah. So, you know, I think you probably see a lot of people like a constellation of symptoms like brain fog and maybe they're feeling low energy, maybe, you know, anxiety, skin issues. How do you start like getting to the root cause of what they're experiencing?

• 14:42Speaker 01

  The one best thing about that doc is that when we're talking about skin issues and anxiety, I would say that when we talked about the symptomatology, so for anybody out there that suffered from eczema or psoriasis or pimple outbreaks or any type of rashes, my angle is this, if you know where the rashes are at or the eczema, you always go to the Chinese meridian chart and you always find out the placement of where the rashes are at.

• 15:06Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Okay.

• 15:06Speaker 01

  If you know where the rashes are at, it will be usually along or around a certain meridian and that meridian is related to an organ. So then you can automatically know that that organ is inflamed. And so when we talk about anxiety, if you know which organ is inflamed, you test it with the EAV and see if the energy is actually running through that specific meridian. Then if you do, you go on further testing and find out if there's a pathogen, if there's any type of toxic metals, if there's any type of hormonal balance that's affecting the organ, you may have to do extra testing for that. But if you know if the organ is basically inflamed or sick, I'm using the kidneys, I'm beating it to death. But if your kidneys are diseased or they're infected, the adrenal glands sit around on top of the kidney. It's one unit in Chinese medicine. The infections will not only spread to the kidney, but they'll jump up into parts of

• 15:49Speaker 01

  the adrenal where people start getting high cortisol and those infections will eat cortisol, many of them. They'll munch on it. They'll munch on your cortisol and they'll munch on DHEA. So then you'll start seeing individuals that have adrenal issues, then fertility issues. And so you start to find out why they have anxiety and then they have brain fog because they can't flush out the toxins through their kidneys. You see, they all start to correlate. You find out like this one organ could have created all those symptoms.

• 16:14Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 16:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:15Dr. Darshan Shah?

  It's, it's a really great way of like putting the relationships together when someone comes up with a bunch of symptoms that they can't figure out what's going on.

• 16:23Speaker 01

  True doc, it's like what happens is we always get so overwhelmed with so many symptoms. So guy have rashes, they have brain fog. But if you can usually find out those small corresponding parts, you'll usually find one or two organs that have been the most affected and they're leading to all the symptoms.

• 16:40Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 16:41Speaker 01

  And so whenever people come in, I know they have separate pieces, but I always say all roads lead home. You're going to eventually find one or two organs that basically got injured when they're sick, they had an emotional trauma, they had a physical sickness from their kid or a bone break, and that will set the whole thing out.

• 16:56Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, I think in Chinese medicine too, like, like you were talking about anxiety, there's like a connection between emotions that you're feeling and different organ systems, right?

• 17:05Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 17:06Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Anger and liver, like, like how does, how do those connections work and what's going on there?

• 17:10Speaker 01

  That's so good. Yeah, you have anger and liver. That's also the gallbladder with resentment, frustration. The heart has to do with joy or working too hard. The thyroid is I can't get something done quick enough. Spleen is I take care of you more than I take care of myself. Pancreas is I'm always like getting blamed for everything. You start to see that each organ has an emotion tied with it in Chinese medicine, in Ayurvedic, but this is the key. With emotions, people just think it's just energetic woo woo with emotions, not at all. Chinese medicine may not know exactly that they were doing this, but when you think about how an organ handles or processes an emotion, it's saying it does it energetically, but it's also saying it's doing metabolically. It actually has hormone, hormones that they actually help balance and control to actually help the person handle that emotion.

• 17:55Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 17:55Speaker 01

  So whenever you start to see emotional patterns in individuals, like let's say a person came with a kidney pattern, the first thing you would ask that person is, do you have excessive fears? Do you live in fear? And some people say, well, no, I don't have fear. I was like, not fear of a spider, not fear of flying high in the sky, but do you have fears of not getting ahead? Fear you're not good enough? Fear that you're not your parents' favorite? Fear that I'm not going to get ahead in life or I don't belong? You start to see these correlations and what will happen is you'll ask them their parents in their history and you'll ask, and you can look on the side of the face, left side of the face has to do with your dad, right side has to do with your mom. And then you can see the pattern on one side and you say, was your mom very fearful? And they go, she was a worrywart and she was always afraid. You ask your grandparent, then you'd see how far back their emotions went.

• 18:37Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Hmm.

• 18:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. Then you start doing herbals and homeopathics, heal the organ, they'll process the fear better.

• 18:43Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Wow.

• 18:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:48Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Dr. Shah here, and I want to take a quick moment to talk to you about metabolism. So you've probably already heard, unfortunately, 88% of Americans are metabolically unhealthy and it's not because of what they're eating. It's actually a lot about what's living in your gut. I'm talking about your microbiome. This is the community of bacteria that controls everything from how you process sugar to your energy levels, to your mood. There's actually one specific strain in your microbiome called Akkermansia muciniphila that's absolutely critical for metabolic health. This is a bacteria that strengthens your gut lining. It helps you metabolize carbs more efficiently and it increases GLP-1 production naturally.

• 19:31Dr. Darshan Shah?

  The problem is almost everybody is completely deficient in it. And until recently, there was no way to get this. But that's why I'm really excited about joining Pendulum. They're the first company in the U.S. to bring live Akkermansia to the market. The company was founded by PhD scientists and doctors with the Mayo Clinic as their first investor. The metabolic daily formula that I take every single day doesn't just contain Akkermansia, it's formulated with multiple next generation strains. And these all work together to optimize your metabolism from the inside and out. So you can track every macro and calorie if you want, but if your gut microbiome is out of balance, you're going to be fighting an uphill battle.

• 20:12Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Pendulum is going to give you the tools that you need to fix your gut at its source. Try Pendulum today. Head to my link below and use the discount code. You're going to feel the difference a healthy gut microbiome can make.

• 20:29Dr. Darshan Shah?

  So you know, you always speak about like looking for different signs and symptoms on, we talked about rashes, the tongue seems to be like a really important place to look as well, right?

• 20:39Speaker 01

  Oh, it's the best. The tongue is always the forefront of what you want to look at on a person.

• 20:44Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Really?

• 20:45Speaker 01

  So for instance, if a person will notice on their tongue, I always tell people like in the morning, just stick out your tongue and look at it. And some individuals will say, well, I don't know why I have digestive issues. And I say stick out your tongue and they'll have a huge crease right down the middle.

• 20:58Dr. Darshan Shah?

  What does that mean?

• 20:59Speaker 01

  Stomach. You literally have an infection in your stomach that's been there so long that it literally caused your tongue to crack, which means it did not just happen just yesterday. It's been there for years. If you have those ruffled edges on the side of the teeth where you have teeth marks.

• 21:12Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Scalping.

• 21:13Speaker 01

  Scalping, all spleen. You've got an infection like a mono or Epstein Barr virus. If you have white on the tongue, you got yeast or fungus. If you got, people have this, really red patches on both sides, like in the middle of the tongue and the sides, on the edges of the outside, right near the scalping, they're gonna have liver disease or gallbladder stones. Call it. Tip of the tongue's red, you got a heart issue. And so you start seeing the back of their throat. Look at the person's back of their throat. Am I getting too much for this?

• 21:37Dr. Darshan Shah?

  No, this is fantastic.

• 21:38Speaker 01

  If you look in the back of the throat.

• 21:39Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I'm sure people out there taking notes right now.

• 21:41Speaker 01

  If you look at the back of your throat and your tongue and you have a huge dip on the back of the tongue.

• 21:45Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Okay.

• 21:46Speaker 01

  You have a bladder infection. And if you look on the backside of the tongue and you've got white junk just in the back, a big dip or any ruffling or redness at all, you've got a UTI or kidney infection that's been sitting there for a long time. So you start to see these small patterns on the tongue and the tongue and the hair, the nails, they're all prerequisites. They are all pre-warning a person that you have this stuff going on your body. And your body is giving you a sign and we just don't pay attention to it.

• 22:13Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah. A lot of this, you know, there's a traditional Chinese medicine version of doing the physical exam. And then there's also like, you know, the Western medicine version of the physical exam. But some of it's very correlated because we do look at the tongue, we do look at the nails as well. And you know, looking for different things, but obviously this is thousands of years of human experience.

• 22:33Speaker 01

  That's what they say.

• 22:34Dr. Darshan Shah?

  In Chinese medicine, yeah, exactly.

• 22:36Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 22:36Dr. Darshan Shah?

  It's so interesting that all this knowledge has survived for so long.

• 22:39Speaker 01

  Truly. And how it correlates though, when you say you look at the nails, to me, they always say in Chinese medicine, the nails are connected to the liver. And then you look in Western medicine and they say, well, what helps you grow your collagen and your connective tissue in your nails? Methylation, it's your liver. So they knew back then it's like, well, your nails have ridge. I'm like, well, you probably got MTHFR.

• 22:57Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, right, right.

• 22:58Speaker 01

  Like a lot of correlation, yeah.

• 23:00Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah. Don't have to do it genetics test.

• 23:02Speaker 01

  No, no. It's been a lot of money.

• 23:04Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I think the one thing that Chinese medicine got right years ago, I mean, obviously centuries ago, before even like modern medicine started talking about it, was the concept of nervous system regulation. Like your parasympathetic versus sympathetic nervous system, right? And there's so many tools in Chinese medicine to help us regulate our nervous system. Can you talk about some of them with us?

• 23:27Speaker 01

  Definitely. When we're talking about anxiety and any type of depression or parasympathetic reduction, if you're guys are living in PTSD or heightened amounts of sympathetic dominance, you know, in the chiropractic realm or the PT realm, they'll say that your vagus nerve is off, your cranial nerve ten, right? But they would say that, they call it the circulation, there's three systems. They always address your heart because the heart's always working so hard for you to meet your demands in your work. So you have to balance the heart, which is correlated to one cool meridian called the pericardium. It's the muscle around the heart. And that pericardium is always related to not only the muscle around the heart,

• 24:06Speaker 01

  but your ovaries, the testes, cervix, uterus, all the reproductive organs, all those that help balance with adrenaline. There's also another one called the triple warmers, the three gates. I know this a lot. But those three meridians directly affect not only those reproductive glands, but your adrenals and thyroid. So when they say balance with your emotions and your PTSD, you will find, like there's one point right here, guys, called triple warmer five, it's right here. If you ever go through PTSD and thyroid issues, you rub this triple warmer five when you're stressed and you're gonna rub that point right here in the middle and you're gonna go, that is pretty tender today. Rub that point out. And people will get complete relaxation when they rub this point out. It's like one hand width down from the wrist right here.

• 24:50Speaker 01

  I'm making it a class, I'm sorry. But when you think about regulation, it's because your body has high energy demands. So to help with parasympathetic relaxation, you treat those three exact meridians. And when you, what you'll find is, is that you'll restore energy, literally energy and metabolic stability to the testes, the ovaries, basically in the adrenals and thyroid, just from a few points. And then if that does show imbalance, you give them the herbs to help with basically bounce your parasympathetics. So whenever anybody comes in and their PTSD doc, I'll usually do some homeopathics as well.

• 25:25Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yep.

• 25:26Speaker 01

  But I treat those meridians. And I will say this, just from experience, some individuals have been like complete anxiety for years and they said, I don't know what that was, but I went home and my kid said something to me and I didn't lash back out of them. And I'm like, I'm super calmed down. So it seems like it works.

• 25:42Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah. And when you say treat the meridian, what are you treating it with? Like acupuncture?

• 25:46Speaker 01

  Both. I use that with needles when they come in. Not use it at pressure. You can use needles. There's this big argument in Chinese medicine, like you use a gold needle or silver needle or steel needle. Oh, yes. There's so many. Use a laser, use pressure. My device, it's a little archaic looking device, it's a frequency tester. You can press a point, this is my opinion, and open up the fascia in that area even with pressure and you'll release the energy to go right through it. So you can use laser, gua sha, needles. You can use so many things to do that. You can use brushing if you do it well enough. So I always try to, it always depends on what a patient needs. If they're in real high anxiety, I put a needle in there, let it sit there and cook for a little while. If it's something I can fix in 15 seconds, I'm like, I'll get it done.

• 26:28Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Some acupuncturists I know, they put a needle and then they attach like a mild electrical current to it.

• 26:32Speaker 01

  The best. Have you had that?

• 26:33Dr. Darshan Shah?

  No, I haven't, no.

• 26:34Speaker 01

  We had a class the other day where we were treating with reproductive. And they had these needles that were like three inches long. And they put it right here in that fossa, right where your adductors are at.

• 26:45Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yep.

• 26:46Speaker 01

  Cause you hit the meridian right on the inside of the kidney meridian. And they put an electric lead on that. And it would basically, people would be completely like anxious and their stomach would be tight and they hit it and it'd be tender because it's going all the way through. Just relax and right out of the way, just right out of the bat, they just feel so relaxed. So electric stimulation is probably one of the fastest and quickest. I've done it a little bit, but not as much as I want. I use a small device where I touch the needle, not the clamps, but it works.

• 27:12Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, I did surgery for many years and one of the anesthesiologists that we had, he would sometimes use needles in the earlobes to create anesthesia.

• 27:23Speaker 01

  I love it.

• 27:23Dr. Darshan Shah?

  It's electrical stimulation.

• 27:25Speaker 01

  Did you ever, like in surgery, I know you were, you just spent, you spent a lot of years in surgery. That's not a lot. I don't know how you did it, but I'm just, kudos to you, seriously. When you do the needles, I've watched brain surgeries in China where they, the people were awake still and they had the needles and they pull their skull down and work on their brain. But when you talk about ears, I actually going up to, I was trained in Alpha Gal where they use the ear acupuncture.

• 27:47Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Okay.

• 27:48Speaker 01

  I'm going to get more training up at Solomon's Institute in a month to go get more testing. But ear acupuncture to me is the best way if a person leaves your office and they say, well, doc, how can I keep helping this? Ear acupuncture for pain.

• 28:02Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Really?

• 28:02Speaker 01

  For digestive issues, hormonal issues, keep those little needles, those little seeds in there and you just stimulate them every day.

• 28:07Dr. Darshan Shah?

  That's right, the little, the seeds that go inside the ear, right?

• 28:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, little turnip seeds. They irritate the skin. So it's really, it's an effective way. People may discount like it's little seed. I'm like, no, it will help you out quite a bit. Yeah. Isn't it cool? I love it.

• 28:19Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Cool. You know, another big part of Chinese medicine is just like moving your body with like Qigong techniques, right? And kinesiology. Yeah. How does all that work?

• 28:29Speaker 01

  Normally when they talk about fluid movements, when they say Tai Chi or Qi Gong, one's more of like a dance, the other one's more of a defensive, you know, movement. What they did find was that even though they say like yoga, that if you put your body in particular positions and particular forms, that the movement that you're creating is actually stretching the fascia in a particular part of your body. So that the meridian that's running through that fascia gets opened up.

• 28:53Dr. Darshan Shah?

  So again, using the same mechanism of energy through fascia.

• 28:56Speaker 01

  That's exactly right. They just found particular movements that they did them over and over that would automatically like, let's say, open up the heart meridian.

• 29:02Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 29:03Speaker 01

  And so they use that like yoga when they put into a certain position is because, this is a little too far fetched, but it's too much to talk about. But yoga, when you're in a position, you set your bones up like an antenna because your bones are made of crystalline formations. So you're actually setting your body like an antenna to receive energy from the environment. Whereas Tai Chi and Qi Gong is movement, open up the energy, it'll feed the organ, the organ starts to heal. And so they say Tai Chi is good for the nourishing of the energy, but it's for the organ. Fascia, remember that. Anybody tells you about Chinese medicine, it's all fascia.

• 29:32Dr. Darshan Shah?

  It's all about fascia.

• 29:32Speaker 01

  It's all about fascia, completely.

• 29:35Dr. Darshan Shah?

  One thing that I know you talk a lot about too is like all these infections that we get as well, like Epstein Barr, Lyme, you know, infections anywhere in your body. And I know Chinese medicine, herbs are a big part of treating infections, you know, because there's no antibiotics back then, right? So, so talk a little bit about that whole kind of field of Chinese medicine around infections and herbs.

• 29:59Speaker 01

  Yes, yes. If you do study many Chinese medicine herbs and you study Ayurvedic and even Western European herbs, one of the coolest things is that whenever I'm testing an individual and many docs out there that are doing it, you'll find that certain herbals have been found even through heavy research, because a lot of the research is in China and Western Europe, that certain herbs have been shown with their chemical components to actually kill off certain infections. So when a patient comes in, for instance, with H. pylori and they have heavy H. pylori, they already been through antibiotics and it's resistant now and it's dug in their gut, you'll find that herbs like Uva ursi, Uva ursi is a beautiful herb, but it usually helps with UTIs and kidneys, but it kills off H. pylori, heavy kill off. Also reishi mushroom, that's really popular. But you'll look and you'll find that certain infections, write these down if you guys want to, no.

• 30:43Speaker 01

  But like for parasites, you want Artemisia, black walnut, Vidanga. You can honestly use sweet wormwood and you can use those types of herbals together or you can use them separately. They'll kill off a lot of parasites. If you have Lyme disease, Lyme disease, you find certain docs and they love certain herbs. Top or the cat's claw.

• 31:02Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 31:02Speaker 01

  Japanese knotweed. Cryptolepis from Africa, beautiful herb, Cryptolepis. You'll find that herbals, there's some that are specifically geared because they didn't have antibiotics, that have an extreme effect on those infections. So when a patient comes in and we do blood testing at times or urinalysis and I do my testing. I already automatically have it honed in and narrowed down to certain herbs. And the beautiful, the beautiful thing is this, like you'll have patients that have been through antibiotic therapy and not knocking antibiotic therapy. I'm just saying that patients who couldn't get an infection loosened and they use these herbs because the constituents of the herb literally are geared to tear down the walls of that particular infection.

• 31:43Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 31:44Speaker 01

  And it's just, and they knew back in the day. And you just, I don't, it just always dumbfounds me.

• 31:48Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And this is something that like, you know, modern medicine, I think is just recently discovering this whole concept of like biofilms, right? Where infections kind of create a film in your body to hide from the immune system and protect themselves, but herbs can break through these.

• 32:02Speaker 01

  They definitely can. And, and it's, biofilms can be a tough, a tough thing to clean out because like you just said, if you ever had staph when you were a kid, like most people kids did, or strep, if you had salmonella, all those species get into your gut or get into your body and your head or your sinuses and they will create a protective mucus or snot around themselves. And they bring everybody else in. They're like the coral reefs.

• 32:27Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yep.

• 32:28Speaker 01

  But if you take a particular herb, you have to find out bio individually, in my opinion, from each person to the next, that there are certain herbs that would definitely gently clean out the biofilms. Cause if you take enzymes, like biofilm clearing enzymes, like you know, serapeptase or nattokinase, they do work, but they'll open up that biofilm and it can let the critters out too quickly. My opinion, I found that a few have really worked. Japanese knotweed, elderberry.

• 32:55Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 32:55Speaker 01

  Really, ooznia, the best. Ooznia, old man's beer, check it out. If you have a problem with that, it's used to treat lung infections. But if you find the herbals, you can gently start to clean out the biofilms. And the importance of biofilms, people may just think it's a biofilm. I'm telling you guys right now, see the seriousness in my face. You can get one biofilm and it will add in other infections and those infections will thrive and create other biofilms in your body. So, once you clear one, you'll have four more pop up. And they will consistently make you keep getting sick. You'll keep having the same rash come over, you'll keep having the same period problem over and over. So if you keep getting an infection and it keeps reoccurring, you got biofilms. You gotta get them cleaned out.

• 33:33Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yep.

• 33:33Speaker 01

  That's how serious I get about it. It's so, it's so prevalent.

• 33:36Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah. And surgery, you know, sometimes when you do like implants in people, they get a biofilm around them and that leads to like a chronic infection, you know? And so, and you have to remove like a knee implant or anything, you have to remove the implant and the biofilm because there's really no way to get rid of it.

• 33:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:52Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Cause it's like, it's there forever. Right, exactly. But you know, biofilms occur anywhere in your body, right? And so, that's how, maybe there's a world where herbs are combined with antibiotics so they can be used at the same time, right?

• 34:03Speaker 01

  That is exactly right, doc. I love it when we, like when they mixtures, I have a lot of patients, we mix so many things together. And if you get the right symphony and you, and you use my little device, and not saying I'm changing anybody's medications, but if you end up with the energy of the medication, if you find the herbs that work well with them, through my little device, with the herbs, their liver stays strong, they'll clean out really well. I would love to talk to you about all the surgeries. I love hearing about that. Sorry, I just like hearing about what you've seen when you cut open somebody, you know?

• 34:31Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Oh gosh, it was an honor to do it for so many years, but I'm, I'm so done with it.

• 34:35Speaker 01

  I never want to see a scalpel again.

• 34:39Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Literally. No, I love what I'm doing now. So this is, this is fantastic.

• 34:43Speaker 01

  It's your passion, man.

• 34:44Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Getting people healthy so they don't need surgery is my passion now.

• 34:47Speaker 01

  That's right. Yo.

• 34:52Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Hi, Dr. Shaw here. I want to take a minute to talk to you about cellular health. So in my clinics, I've actually seen 30 year old people with cells that look like they're pushing retirement. And I've also seen 60 year olds with cells that look like they're 40 years old. So what's the difference? It's really about how fast their telomeres are breaking down. Your cells you see are like phones and they have limited cell phone battery. Poor sleep, stress, processed foods, all of these things can drain that battery way faster than it should. So this is the reason why I partnered with IMA. IMA powers that cellular battery. It's not just another multivitamin, it's a comprehensive 92 ingredient formula designed specifically for cellular health and longevity.

• 35:37Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I'm talking 900 milligrams of vitamin C. That's like 20 oranges worth of DNA protection. The clinical dose of CoQ10 that you need to power your cellular engine. You also get zinc, selenium, vitamin E, alpha lipoic acid, all of these work synergistically for cellular repair and protecting your telomeres. So instead of taking a handful of pills every day and all these supplements, IMA actually gives you everything that you need in one scientifically formulated system. And this isn't just a theory anymore. IMA had partnered with Oxford University, the International Space Station, San Francisco Research Institute, and they've done studies and they've gotten this NSF certified to truly power your health.

• 36:19Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Most people are aging twice as fast as they should, unfortunately. You don't have to be one of them. Try IMA. I actually have a discount secured for you if you go to drshah.com/ima or go to imathhealth.com/diss or go to drshaw and you can get 20% off with my discount code, drshaw. You can also find the link below.

• 36:43Dr. Darshan Shah?

  So, you know, I'm sure, you know, like you see so many people in the Nashville area and probably even beyond, they come to you with all sorts of different concerns, issues, symptoms, infections, et cetera. How do you like approach a patient with, in Chinese medicine? What's like the, the algorithm you guys use?

• 37:02Speaker 01

  Most of the time, most Chinese practitioners would definitely use pulse, like pulse points on the wrist to try to find out which organs the most affected or injured. Also tongue analysis, and they'll also use, sometimes use the eyes. They use the color of the skin, literally the color of your skin, and also the smell of your skin. It sounds really unusual and the texture. So when you first come in, they say, how would I approach? Normally what I do is, if I'm repeating, I'm sorry, but normally I go through and I test each acupuncture meridian and see what's the energy levels of each acupuncture meridian. And then when I find that, I then go through physical symptomatology. I'll look at the tongue after and see if your tongue correlates with what your meridian is saying. Then you start to narrow down which organ is the most deficient.

• 37:45Speaker 01

  And then I go through kinesiology and I go through muscle testing. And what happens is every organ is connected neurologically to a muscle. So if the organ is weak, all the muscles it's connected to through the spinal cord is going to be weak. So you start to really narrow it down. And then I use my frequency device to find out which infections possibly could be in the, in the organ. Okay? So then I'm going to start thinking about herbs. And in a nutshell, I use a lot of bodywork, doc. I, I, I use gua sha, I use acupuncture, I'll clear the fascia. My next job is on the table, I clear all the fascial binding and that gets the energy to flow. And, but at the end of it though, I literally will find out which organ it honed down to

• 38:26Speaker 01

  and then I try to question and find out which emotion's been programmed in their brain. And then I can't say I can clear that. I'll say go get EMDR or do some kind of, you know, emotional therapy or technique or therapy or counseling. But after all of that said and done, there's something that keeps triggering that complete organ when they're getting assessed, they keep it in a weakened state or inflamed state. And it's usually by something that's programmed into the brain. So you have to try to find that out. So that's my assessment, use herbs. Homeopathics are a huge part of my thing. I use homeopathics to break all the programs, I attempt to. And I usually, it usually takes about, with a serious harder symptomatology, I always tell people, give me about a year. Cause I can't, I'm not one of those people that tells you, I can get done in 20 days. I'm like, no, that's not happening.

• 39:10Speaker 01

  And when people say they do that, I'm like, okay, well, I need to learn from you. Yeah. That's how my first assessment is when people find me.

• 39:17Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah. Yeah. So it sounds like you're doing like diagnostics, using the meridian analysis, you're looking at the tongue, you're looking at, and you use your device that you have as well. And then from there, you put into place a program using a combination of herbs, kinesiology, acupuncture, emotional assessment and treatment, right?

• 39:34Speaker 01

  Definitely. And then if they're ever on medication, never take them off medication, always try to find whatever can work with it.

• 39:39Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 39:40Speaker 01

  And once after you start to clean them out really well, after about six to eight months, they, they'll change herbs as they go along. But normally you get them a good program together. And I tell them, you're going to have to, you know, you're going to have to go through the sludge and try to do it gently. Eventually they'll start going up and they'll start climbing really well. So that's, that's my assessment. That's how I do it.

• 40:01Dr. Darshan Shah?

  How does someone find a good practitioner of Chinese medicine? Is there an association or website that people can look at?

• 40:08Speaker 01

  You know what? I will be honest with you, there's so many different like schools.

• 40:12Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 40:13Speaker 01

  And maybe other acupuncturists in Chinese medicine practitioners may disagree, but they're all kind of in their, they all have their own style.

• 40:19Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Oh, okay.

• 40:20Speaker 01

  So they're very protective of their own style. This is what I've experienced. And they will teach only certain people that they want to learn their particular style. So there's not a lot of associations that tell you to go to this doctor, that. Usually I hate to say, a lot of acupuncturists, Chinese medicine is word of mouth.

• 40:35Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 40:36Speaker 01

  I, the AK world, there's the ICAK, which is the International College, it's the big.

• 40:41Dr. Darshan Shah?

  What is AK?

• 40:41Speaker 01

  AK is Applied Kinesiology, where they're using muscle strength, muscle assessments to find out what's going on with the nerve, which tells you what's going on with the organ.

• 40:50Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Got it.

• 40:51Speaker 01

  So they use an out, external source to find what's going inside. There's also cpkusa.com, plugging you, Dr. Doughty, you're great, you're my mentor. CPKUSA, they have like directories that actually help with that. With Chinese medicine, I know I usually would tell people, this is what I say, go to your natural health food store or go to an acupuncture college that's in your area, but go to the natural food store and find out the, the acupuncturist that gives the best results and ask the person working in the supplement section. That's how you usually find them. I wish there was more people.

• 41:21Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Word of mouth, yeah.

• 41:21Speaker 01

  Word of mouth, you know?

• 41:23Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Do you think there's more or less people doing acupuncture now in the United States than before, or just practicing traditional Chinese medicine?

• 41:29Speaker 01

  I think there's more. Uh, from, from actually 10, 15 years ago, I think there's a lot more. And I think a lot of people are, since even like a lot of orthopedic surgeons in our area and even female hormonal doctors are really looking for Chinese medicine practitioners. In fact, I, I'm so surprised over the years, uh, some of the orthopedics, like because you find like in kinesiology, you find certain muscles that are keeping a shin bone twisted where they can't fix their ankle.

• 41:53Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 41:54Speaker 01

  And you can go back to the doc and say, they need to do a lot of PT or I can help fix it. Then you get a repu, like a, not reputation, you get a, a connection with the doctors. And it's really good because you're going west and eastern medicine. And so that's how I think that it should be. I wish everybody could work together and there wouldn't be like any discrepancies, you know?

• 42:12Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I know some physicians that have gone trained in acupuncture actually, you know? And they really believe in it. They use it as part of their orthopedic surgery practice or their pain management practice.

• 42:21Speaker 01

  Yes. And, and I, I'm so surprised. And even like the VAs, a lot of the VAs out there in the hospitals for veterans.

• 42:27Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 42:28Speaker 01

  I, I was so surprised. I've found a few states that actually have acupuncturists and some chiropractic in there. And I was like, are you kidding me? But now, uh, one of the big orthopedic clinics here, they have acupuncture, they have acupuncturists in the actual facility with them. So it's working. It's, I think people are starting to see. That with mitochondria, I'm just saying with energetic quality of the cells, like there is another energetic source that's running through the muscles and the fascia. And I think it's starting to get a little bit more mainstream.

• 42:56Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, yeah, no, it's really, it's really interesting to see like a resurgence, you know, which is fantastic.

• 43:02Speaker 01

  I do too. I love it, Doc.

• 43:03Dr. Darshan Shah?

  How does, how do people, like, you know, there's so many people like at the conference tomorrow that are interested in longevity, right? And you're going to be speaking on stage. How do you get the longevity enthusiasts to think about plugging traditional Chinese medicine into their life?

• 43:17Speaker 01

  I would say, man, that's true, because you guys are also smart. It's, everybody's so good at what they do. And so you don't ever want to tell them like, this is going to help your program out even better. But what I would suspect and say is this, if you look at longevity, for example, like mitochondria, and we're talking about mitochondria being the energy producer. My plug would say this, if you have infections that are either around the mitochondria in the cell or inside the cell, the mitochondria will flood that whole area with oxygen to kill the infection. What I'm saying is that if you got an infection in your cell, such as babesia or malaria, that mitochondria is going to use all its energy to create oxygen species to kill the infection instead of create energy.

• 44:02Speaker 01

  So with Chinese medicine, what I'm saying is that depending on where that infection's at in the body and which mitochondria system is, like maybe the heart or maybe the eyes, we don't know, at least bring enough energy, enough qi, enough electrical energy into that organ to actually help it start to flush and get balanced, so that it gives a little bit more rest to the mitochondria. If the organ starts to get energy, it'll wake up, it'll know something's going on. And so you'll actually bring energy to the area. You can use some herbals like Chinese medicine, help the body clean out the infections. And then when you're giving the CoQ10s, vitamin E, vitamin C, all the B vitamins, they will work better, in my opinion. That's how I feel about it.

• 44:42Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, so it goes hand in hand.

• 44:43Speaker 01

  Totally hand in hand.

• 44:44Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Longevity practices.

• 44:45Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 44:46Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Great. Well, this is such an educational hour that we've had together.

• 44:50Speaker 01

  And you're like, very boring, Dr. Motley.

• 44:52Dr. Darshan Shah?

  No, not at all, not at all. This is like, super informative. How can people find out more about Chinese medicine and learn from you? I know you have a podcast.

• 44:59Speaker 01

  Oh, yes, I have a podcast, gonna plug it. It's called the Ancient Health Podcast. I can't take credit for it, my good friend, Dr. Josh Axe, he started a long time ago. I was helped hosting it, and then Josh went through his stuff and his life and his health scare. But now he's doing great. Ancient Health Podcast, you can find me on YouTube. It's at, you know, Dr. Motley, D R Motley, M O T L E Y, Ancient Health Podcast. But look up Dr. Motley, and then Dr. Motley spelled out, D O C T O R Motley. On Instagram, you know, X, Facebook.

• 45:29Dr. Darshan Shah?

  All the platforms.

• 45:30Speaker 01

  All the platforms. And there's a really good, like, that's my website, it's Dr. Motley spelled out. But there's a really good website, if you guys really want to know, it's called Me and Ki. Me and Chi, E, Me and K I. You look at that website, it has so much good information on Chinese medicine. You want to know the basics, go to that. I don't even know them, but they're great.

• 45:49Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Me and Ki.

• 45:50Speaker 01

  Me and Ki. If you have any questions, you literally can put a search in there, and it pulls up so much stuff.

• 45:54Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Wow, that's awesome. Good stuff, lots of great info. Really appreciate you joining us, and I'll see you tomorrow at the conference on stage.

• 46:01Speaker 01

  Thanks, Doc, I appreciate it.

• 46:02Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Thank you, yeah, appreciate you.

• 46:03Speaker 01

  Thanks, guys.

• 46:07Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Thank you so much for listening to the podcast today. Please remember to subscribe if you liked this episode, and give us a good review and share a link with your friends. It really helps to support all of our efforts. I also want to remind you that the information shared on this podcast is for educational purposes only and is not intended to replace professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Please consult with your healthcare provider or physician before making any decisions or taking any action based on what you hear today, especially if you have any underlying health conditions or on any medications. Your doctor knows your personal health situation the best, and it's always important to seek their guidance.